General Forum ------------- Starting Date 07/1988 --------------------- Msg#: 4505 *GENERAL* 07/01/88 09:48:45 From: RON WILSON To: TAEGAN GODDARD (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 4047 (BSR X-10 INTERFACE) That's what I thought (and what I've got). Now, all I have to do is build an RS-232 to whatever the Radio Shack version of the X-10 interface wants (Radio Shack substituted an inter- face to their TRS-80 Mod I or CoCo cassette port - a minor inconvience) Thanks. Ron Msg#: 4582 *GENERAL* 07/04/88 21:03:13 From: TAEGAN GODDARD To: RON WILSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 4505 (BSR X-10 INTERFACE) Ron, any idea on what kind of interface you'd need to hook up a CoCo X-10 interface to a PC RS232 port? Thanks, ...Taegan Msg#: 4606 *GENERAL* 07/05/88 12:50:01 From: RON WILSON To: TAEGAN GODDARD (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 4582 (BSR X-10 INTERFACE) Not yet. I haven't had much time at all to work on my personal projects. . I suspect that the CoCo software simply }i drives the cassette port as though it where a "software UART" - Therefore, it should just be a matter of building a logic level converter (similar to a TTL-RS232 converter) -- Ron Msg#: 4639 *GENERAL* 07/06/88 16:13:39 From: RICHARD ANDREWS To: RON WILSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 4505 (BSR X-10 INTERFACE) . X-10 itself also sells a unit which will connect to a PC through a regular DB-25 connector. They also sell a control program to handle the programming for the controller. Works well. Msg#: 4685 *GENERAL* 07/08/88 15:19:16 From: RON WILSON To: RICHARD ANDREWS (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 4639 (BSR X-10 INTERFACE) True, but the Radio Shack unit was liquidated for $15 . Thanks anyway. - Ron Msg#: 4506 *GENERAL* 07/01/88 10:05:14 From: RON WILSON To: VIC FRAENCKEL (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 3876 (MACHINE READABLE SOFTWARE LISTING) I think you've missed the point. Even with PC-Pursuit (does it cover this BBS?), long distance phone bills add up fast even with a small number of small downloads. Ron Msg#: 4510 *GENERAL* 07/01/88 12:53:45 From: RON WILSON To: ALL Subj: TELEPHONE RING SINGAL GENERATOR I have an unusual request: I have built a "front end" for incoming phone calls. It allows my answering to answer calls while it listens for one of several Touch- Tone(tm) code sequences. One of these codes is intended to cause the call to be routed to my computer. One problem: the modem is built into the computer (the circuitry is on the mother board) and, as such, is totally under the control of the device driver software; the actaul problem is that the driver software does not provide a command to force the modem to answer - therefore, the only way to get the modem to answer is to simulate a ringing signal. I tried building a "pick up" dectector switch to allow the modem to see the real ringing signal. It does work - but, the modem answers as soon as it senses the ringing signal, while the answering machine tries to "validate" the signal before answering. The result: The answering machine won't answer the call (because the ringing signal went away before it could be "validated"). Therefore, I need to simulate the ringing signal (aprox 100 volts AC). The trick is doing that without frying the modem (and the computer it is an integral part of) (so far, I've fried 2 $20 AT&T telephones while testing my designs for a ring signal generator) Any Suggestions? Thanks in advance. -- Ron Msg#: 4755 *GENERAL* 07/11/88 08:13:14 From: BOB PADDOCK To: RON WILSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 4510 (TELEPHONE RING SINGAL GENERATOR) Phones that have real bells in them are mecanicly resonate at about 20 Hz, so that not much current is needed, even tho it is 100 volt signal (actually any where from 90 to 130 VAC). You might be able to do some thing with a 555 oscolating at 20 Hz, drivining the secondary of a 6V:117V transformer, then limit the current on the primary side. Msg#: 4761 *GENERAL* 07/11/88 12:35:17 From: RON WILSON To: BOB PADDOCK (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 4755 (TELEPHONE RING SINGAL GENERATOR) Thanks, I'll try something like that - Ron Msg#: 5742 *GENERAL* 08/04/88 23:28:42 From: CLAYTON ZEKELMAN To: RON WILSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 4761 (TELEPHONE RING SINGAL GENERATOR) You could also contact a local interconnect company (the folks who install business telephone systems) and ask them if they could sell you a 'ring generator'. There are a few units available. I prefer the ancient Northern Electric (now Northern Telecom) units - you connect their 'Power Plant' Module's 10VAC output to a relay (to turn it on and off), then send it through their 'Frequency Generator' module, and Voila - out comes a 'ring signal'. We use one at our office to drive an electronic warbler over our PA system for 'night ring' when the switchboard is closed, as well as to drive a telephone stuffed into the ceiling (didnt have a bell only handy) for the same purpose. One note of caution - Stay away from the Tellabs unit. They make a compact arrangment that doesnt requre the 'power plant' module - it just plugs into the wall - Ive had 3 of them die on me over 6 months. The NE unit has worked like a charm for far longer. (newer isnt always better). >>Clayton<< Msg#: 5771 *GENERAL* 08/05/88 14:57:40 From: RON WILSON To: CLAYTON ZEKELMAN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 5742 (TELEPHONE RING SINGAL GENERATOR) Thanks, I'll look into that..... maybe find some other interesting stuff in the process..... - Ron Msg#: 4511 *GENERAL* 07/01/88 16:26:01 From: DAVID HESSLER To: TAEGAN GODDARD (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 4399 (HOME CONTROL) Taegan, I am supprised at all the negative responses you got on your need to send cga composite or ttl signals around the house. Many computers and control systems do it everyday at low cost. Both cases need buffering. The composit signal is video needing a booster from radio shack for $12, or a one transistor amplifier easily built for a dollar, described in the Radio Amateurs Handbook from the library, and distributed on 50 ohm tv cable (75 ohm 100' $10 radio shack.) The TTL needs a line driver such as RS-422, or RS-485 multidrop differential pair cable, on twisted pairs, or on multi conductor flat cable with alternate hi/lo pairs for the several individual signals for video,syncs etc. the drivers need a 5v ps at only about 100 ma, like a tape recorder blob power pack. The signals degrade enough to re boost each 30 to 50' depending on the sensitivity of your input circuits at the monitors. Note that you need all cga composit or cga ttl monitors or need to cable both types of signals around the house. Also note that cga color is not much to brag about for reading 80 column text for more than a short time, and the composit works well into a mono set too, if the cga board is setup for all black and white, 0 and 15 color definition at boot up time. you can also run mono from a resistor netowrk of the ttl signals, or use the rf modulator from games or other converters. They are listed in the back of Popular electronics, radio-Elect ronics and computers, and many of the hackers and amatures magazines, and the rf out can be boosted with the radio shack antenna booster for $10, or the 4 holer quad booster for $12, and usually is recieved by a tv on channel 4, but is not very good for more than 60 columns, best on forty columns. You can get a cheap hercules card and run both cga and herc mono with the right software driver ( as done in autocad for display screen and menu screen ). DAvid Hessler Msg#: 4556 *GENERAL* 07/03/88 13:59:47 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: DAVID HESSLER (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 4511 (HOME CONTROL) You missed the point I was trying to make. I was saying that if he wants to distribute composite video around the house, trying to also use 80 columns will result in almost unreadable text. I never said sending composite video was impossible, as long as you stick to 40 columns. As for sending TTL RGBI via RS-422, I seriously doubt RS-422 drivers and receivers have a high enough slew rate to be able to handle a video-rate signal. Most such drivers are designed to work up to perhaps 64 kbps. Msg#: 4583 *GENERAL* 07/04/88 21:05:57 From: TAEGAN GODDARD To: DAVID HESSLER (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 4511 (HOME CONTROL) Thanks for the lengthy reply David. I've logged it to disk to read an think about later. Your ideas are very helpful... ...Taegan Msg#: 4809 *GENERAL* 07/13/88 00:27:34 From: DAVID HESSLER To: KEN DAVIDSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 4556 (HOME CONTROL) Ken, I really didn't mean to argue, I just have heard about 200Kc to seveal hundred feen and 2 mhz to 50 f33t with the cheap TI drivers for some low cap twisted pairs, where the quality is not too demanding, and the noise is not too severe. There are much better video driver amps out now, and sensitive video recievers made for fiber optic links, that are still reasonable for 15 mhz to 200 mhz at 50 ohms at about a volt. DAve Msg#: 4514 *GENERAL* 07/01/88 16:35:34 From: DAVID HESSLER To: JEFF JENSEN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 4438 (SEAGATE ST-225 SCHEMATICS) Jeff, thank you for the offer, and the conservative advice. I agree that much thought is necessary to develop compression to ibm graphics or ansi or some standard for drawings, and for formatad pages of tables etc, but will continue to colate the inputs on ways to do it, and when we get closer I expect to see wide use of massive optical disk memory on many boards to hold much more stuff than we can imagine. Most manuals have much useful data in a few pages of tables and drawings that can be very helpful, making it worthwhile to do what we can on disk and printer and modem hookup and command instructions. Thanks, and keep thinking on it.. DAve Msg#: 4615 *GENERAL* 07/05/88 16:26:08 From: JEFF JENSEN To: DAVID HESSLER (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 4514 (SEAGATE ST-225 SCHEMATICS) Dave, I have access to the scanner due to an R&D project from last year on electronic photography, image processing and document storage. We had the opportunity to play with some neat toys and look under the hood of some of the big boy's document processing system. I also have two WORM drives that were intended to be the heart of an office sized image system. If you have a megabuck budget, several companies will set up a system for you, including writing the business case (I didn't find out if they had a placement service for the guys whose system doesn't live up to the business case!) Anyway, the cause for our research went away and left us with some nifty toys. I just saw an ad for a group IV fax machine, which should allow some better standard com pression schemes, if we hackers can get ahold of the specs. This is enough rambling for now. Talk (write to you later. Msg#: 4810 *GENERAL* 07/13/88 00:31:19 From: DAVID HESSLER To: JEFF JENSEN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 4615 (SEAGATE ST-225 SCHEMATICS) Jeff, thanks for the chat, let me know if you go farther with the image inputs for text and drawings. lots of us want to scan and mail images when we can afford devices... Msg#: 4825 *GENERAL* 07/13/88 18:24:18 From: JEFF JENSEN To: DAVID HESSLER (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 4810 (SEAGATE ST-225 SCHEMATICS) David, I enjoyed it as well. Its hard to find anyone who knows what a WORM is (versus a "worm") here on the Silicon Prairie. It isn't impossible, but it is a search. . . Jeff Msg#: 4969 *GENERAL* 07/19/88 07:24:11 From: DAVID HESSLER To: JEFF JENSEN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 4825 (SEAGATE ST-225 SCHEMATICS) Jeff, this is almost the mainstream of computer intelectual activity compared to most of the midwest except for around a few big cities. but you should see around S F or L A or Phila or DC.. they have tons of good boards, although very few measure up to cellar... I think you will now find good boards in the boonies in australia and zambozi it the real desert, I get replies from sidny and ussr regularly... Dave Msg#: 5062 *GENERAL* 07/21/88 14:00:31 From: JEFF JENSEN To: DAVID HESSLER (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 4969 (SEAGATE ST-225 SCHEMATICS) Dave, although techie types are not as plentiful on the Silicon Praries, we tend to bump into each other and form friendships because of it. I know a dozen or so folks in the Omaha area that can speak to most high tech questions adequately. The Strategic Air Command and Offutt AFB also bring some sharp folks to town, even if only for their tour duration. I miss the events such as the Computer Faire, and the vendor access. Long distance is only a distant second place to being there. It is difficult to establish credability with a vendor when your company is not a big name. I spent three or four months talking to Borland just to get to the guy that could tell me they couldn't help us on our CD-ROM project. The problems are not insurmountable, they just require a bit more tenacity and creativity to resolve. Jeff Msg#: 5206 *GENERAL* 07/26/88 08:06:45 From: DAVID HESSLER To: JEFF JENSEN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 5062 (SEAGATE ST-225 SCHEMATICS) Jeff, you should call fred ford in exton pa on the cd rom/vcr tape inputs, he is a mainframe hwd/firmware type at unisys and has such interests, at 215-363-6855 at home or 215-648-4408 at work. dave Msg#: 5232 *GENERAL* 07/26/88 20:20:14 From: JEFF JENSEN To: DAVID HESSLER (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 5206 (SEAGATE ST-225 SCHEMATICS) David, I must be suffering brain fade. I don't remember the original topic for your referral to Fred Ford. Can you remind me? Thanks Jeff Msg#: 6155 *GENERAL* 08/12/88 21:10:05 From: DAVID HESSLER To: JEFF JENSEN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 5232 (SEAGATE ST-225 SCHEMATICS) fred ford is a hardware/firmware expert from unisys/burroughs mainframe design interested in cad and os-9, and video tape O-Rom. dave hessler Msg#: 6259 *GENERAL* 08/15/88 18:02:40 From: JEFF JENSEN To: DAVID HESSLER Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 6155 (SEAGATE ST-225 SCHEMATICS) David, the reference to Fred Ford now makes sense. Thanks. - - Jeff Msg#: 4516 *GENERAL* 07/01/88 16:50:38 From: MITCH WRIGHT To: ALL Subj: HERCULES DRIVERS Does anybody have documented source code for switching the hercules mono graphics card from text mode to graph mode and back assembler and or Forth would be great . Mitch Wright Msg#: 4522 *GENERAL* 07/01/88 20:36:28 From: THOMAS BARNETT To: MITCH WRIGHT (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 4516 (HERCULES DRIVERS) Mitch, I have a Hercules "look-a-like" which is 100% compatible. If your card uses a 6845 CRT controler on port 3B8H then bit 1 controls the graphic-text mode. When set to 1 video information comes from the graphic buffer, otherwise it is in the text mode. The rest of the port is: bit 3 video enable, bit 5 blink enable, bit 7 page select. Bits 0,2,4, and 6 are not used. If your board is IBM compatible it should be the same. Thomas. Msg#: 4526 *GENERAL* 07/02/88 01:25:09 From: SUJOY CHATTERJEE To: ALL Subj: COLOR I WOULD LIKE TO KNOW ABOUT HI-RESOLUTION MONITORS AND DIGITIZERS, BEST SYSTEM FOR COLOR IMAGES (PICTURE LIKE QUALITY) ALSO, AFTER CAPTURING THE SCREEN, WHAT UTILITIES ARE AVAILABLE FOR COLORING IT (ON A PIXEL CONTROL LEVEL) AND ANY RELATED INFO I HAVE RECENTLY STARTED INTO THE FIELD OF DIGITIZING AND WOULD APPRECIATE ANY INFO ON IT. IF THE ARE ANYONE IN THE LOS ANGLES AREA INVOLVED WITH THIS, PLEASE LEAVE A MESSAGE FOR ME, SUJOY Msg#: 4529 *GENERAL* 07/02/88 03:28:13 From: ALLAN LONG To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: RE-BROADCASTERS I hate to say this cause it reminds me so much of pocket calculators but I have a friend who just bought a Satellite receiver and for $88.00 he bought a re-broadcaster which send any signal from the earth station or his vcr to any uhf tv in the house on (i think) channel 14. Isnt it always the way. If I hadnt already run coax myself I would buy one. A good source would be one of those Satcom or Video Magazines. Probably could get it cheaper than $88 bucks. Msg#: 4608 *GENERAL* 07/05/88 13:14:52 From: RON WILSON To: ALLAN LONG (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 4529 (RE-BROADCASTERS) If possible, please find out where your friend got his TV transmitter. I've been looking in about 7 different Magazines and even calling places that used to advertise such transmitters - it seems that since the FCC lowered the boom, no one in the US is willing to admit to being able to get those things. (I wonder about Canada) -- Ron (PS I live far enough from any one else that I don't have to worry about causing interference - As I recall, the FCC can only act when there is a complaint) Msg#: 4640 *GENERAL* 07/06/88 16:17:05 From: RICHARD ANDREWS To: ALLAN LONG (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 4529 (RE-BROADCASTERS) . I have seen re-broadcasters at computer flea markets selling in the range of $40. Maybe you could find one there. Msg#: 4811 *GENERAL* 07/13/88 00:39:41 From: DAVID HESSLER To: RICHARD ANDREWS (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 4640 (RE-BROADCASTERS) Richard, have you seen any data or comments on the rebroadcasters for audio, as in voice synthisizers from text files? Msg#: 4532 *GENERAL* 07/02/88 12:28:15 From: THOMAS BARNETT To: ROBERT MCILVAINE (Rcvd) Subj: OKIDATA ML82 Mac, I installed the PC WRITER add-on to my Okidata ML82 and guess what? It still does not work with the Okidata TPR setting on Generic CADD. However it now does work great as a IBM high resolution graphics printer. Using the IBM TPR setting for Dotplot it works fairly good. It also has both draft and letter quality mode. The detail is nothing compared to the Deskjet, however when I printed the same drawing out on each printer the Okidata printed in about 5 minutes while it took the Deskjet about twenty minutes to print the same thing. Thought you'd like to know. Thomas. Msg#: 4534 *GENERAL* 07/02/88 13:14:13 From: KEVIN WILLIAMS To: KEN WILSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 4489 (TM-100-2) I can be reached at 703-560-1505, or kevin williams, Williams Industries 2849 meadow view rd, falls chruch va, 22042. I would like a copy of both to see to difference in the drives. I can have them scanned and send them back to you, and put the tech manual here, Have to talk to the sysop about doing this. thanks alot for the offer, leave a message here with more info thanks Msg#: 4535 *GENERAL* 07/02/88 13:15:29 From: KEVIN WILLIAMS To: DAVID HESSLER (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 4390 (TM-100-2) I picked them up on wednesday night as I came back into town, I had company thur,fri and sat, am going home now to put it all together, will give you a call on monday. thanks Msg#: 4808 *GENERAL* 07/13/88 00:22:27 From: DAVID HESSLER To: KEVIN WILLIAMS (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 4535 (TM-100-2) Kevin, ok, when you get time, I wanted a good home for the old gear, and can likely get the other 8"disk. I expect to start a new job in Phila. on Aug 8... Good Luck, clean all the connectors, especially the 232 board in the interface box. DAve Hessler Msg#: 4536 *GENERAL* 07/02/88 13:18:04 From: KEVIN WILLIAMS To: KEN DAVIDSON (Rcvd) Subj: TECH MANUALS ON BBS I hope this is to the correct person. I have been talking to dave hessler on this board about getting together some older and newer, tech manuals and scanning them into ascii format. I would like to upload them to this and other bbs' so that other people who need them can download them. How do you feel about this???? what about the legal aspects?? thanks for your help Msg#: 4552 *GENERAL* 07/03/88 13:43:38 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: KEVIN WILLIAMS (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 4536 (TECH MANUALS ON BBS) As long as any copyrighted material has been cleared with the copyright owner, I'd be glad to set up a file area where such manuals could be posted. I'm not quite sure how to handle a manual copyrighted by an out-of-business company, but we'll think of something. Msg#: 4588 *GENERAL* 07/05/88 08:28:08 From: KEVIN WILLIAMS To: KEN DAVIDSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 4552 (TECH MANUALS ON BBS) I am now in the process of getting the tech manual for the shugart sa800 scanned into an ascii format, I will upload it when it is done, and you can handle it from there. thanks Msg#: 4593 *GENERAL* 07/05/88 08:43:50 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: KEVIN WILLIAMS (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 4588 (TECH MANUALS ON BBS) I don't plan on tracking down copyright owners myself. I'm willing to provide an area where such files can be posted, but I don't have the time to write letters and make phone calls. If the SA800 manual is uploaded without Shugart or a representative having been contacted, then I can't post the file publically. Msg#: 4636 *GENERAL* 07/06/88 12:48:44 From: KEVIN WILLIAMS To: KEN DAVIDSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 4593 (TECH MANUALS ON BBS) I will take care of that before I upload them, and let you know or have them send a letter to be upload with the files. thanks for your help on this new subject. Msg#: 4812 *GENERAL* 07/13/88 00:47:35 From: DAVID HESSLER To: KEN DAVIDSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 4552 (TECH MANUALS ON BBS) Ken, I will talk to a good friend, Larry Husick, ex-Sysop of Pat-Net in Valley Forge Pa, probably hangs out on some board there. He is at 215-296-8269 evenings, and 215-265-6666 at the Law office, big on pc and Mac. Has a good feel for the legal aspects of piracy and copywrite law as a patent lawyer in hi-tech areas like chemistry and artificial intelligence .Steve C. should chat with him about doing some articles on the legal aspects of this type of hackers do-gooder projects like old manuals data-base. Dave Hessler Msg#: 4539 *GENERAL* 07/02/88 17:08:16 From: ED NISLEY To: TIM GALLAGHER (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 4273 (IBM GAMEPORT) The circuitry is expecting the resistance you supply to charge a cap; the time it takes to charge the cap to about 3.3 volts determines the timeout period. Anything you stick on the port other than a resistor should supply current to the cap to charge it up. A voltage source through a resistor will work, although it'll tend to be non- linear. A current source is better, and you can probably make a simple transistor buffer that'll work fairly well. You won't get exquisite precision no matter what! You'll surely have to fiddle around a bit to get the right current, voltage, or resistance... remember that the longer the pulse, the better, up to the limit where you start picking up noise because the charging current is so low... Msg#: 4644 *GENERAL* 07/06/88 19:10:03 From: TIM GALLAGHER To: ED NISLEY (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 4539 (IBM GAMEPORT) That was fast, eh? Hope you can use the info. Msg#: 4542 *GENERAL* 07/02/88 20:02:11 From: SUJOY CHATTERJEE To: ALL Subj: IMAGE PROCESSING AND COLOR GRAPHICS IF ANYONE OUT THERE KNOWS ABOUT HI-RESOLUTION COLOR MONITORS AND DIGITIZER CARDS AND ANY OTHER INFORMATION ABOUT PIXEL MANIPULATION, PLEASE LEAVE ME A MEAASGE. I AM A NEWCOMER IN THIS FIELD ANY WOULD APPRECIATE ANY INFO ON THE SUBJECT. MY USER NAME IS SUJOY. THANKS. P.S. NICE SYSTEM. Msg#: 4547 *GENERAL* 07/03/88 10:02:43 From: MICHAEL SKUCZAS To: KEN DAVIDSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 4324 (GMIC/GVAC COMBO) Yes, I beleive you are quite right about that approach, especially since the wiring from the GVAC's to the rams has taken a dramatic change. The applications book I got from Hitachi indicate that multi-layer board is the only way to keep board space down. For the moment now I have to put this project on the back burner. Memory prices make this project not to attractive and if you remember what Atari said about their ST line in the begining, "Power without Price". My potential market is going to give the price a long look at and I beleive that with current pricing of memories they will probably pass it up. So I am also now looking into VGA chips. The big thing with them is lower number of memories needed. I know it may not work, but I feel it can't hurt in vestigating the possiblites of using one. I also know that most offer a number of modes that won't work with the Atari monitors. I know the the users out there though and they would be will to get another monitor for two reasons; 1) It works with their computer and 2) There is software they can use. Number 1, I am not sure about yet and number 2 I think I can talk a deal with a software company I know of, that will fill in the void till regular Atari software in converted. One final note, I know about Catch-22, so I don't need to be reminded of it. Any way, I'll never know if I don't try. signed Michael Skuczas Msg#: 4567 *GENERAL* 07/03/88 23:44:07 From: ED THOMAS To: KEN DAVIDSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 1655 (MESSAGES ON DISK) hi ken new user here, just spent two nights reading messages.... would really be intrested in getting these on disk insted of paying for long-distance. let me know where to send my check.... thanks much . KEEP UP THE GOOD WORK ON THE BBS ED. Msg#: 4578 *GENERAL* 07/04/88 15:05:54 From: WALT KIEFER To: KEN DAVIDSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 1655 (MESSAGES ON DISK) One more vote; YES Msg#: 5854 *GENERAL* 08/08/88 01:39:08 From: MARC DIAZ To: SYSOP (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 3139 (MESSAGES ON DISK) I am new to the world of BBSs. I am using Procomm and a 1200 BAUD modem to connect to this BBS. I am also from the West coast. Is there a way that I can download the entire message database to my computer so that I can read them at a slower pace at a later time. So far this is the only bulletin board that I enjoy using. I have to wait till odd hours of the night so that I can save a bit on long distance rates. Any suggestions ? Also, is there a text file that covers how to use this BBS in detail or do I have to fumble around the menus to decipher what I need to do ? Msg#: 5864 *GENERAL* 08/08/88 09:42:05 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: MARC DIAZ (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 5854 (MESSAGES ON DISK) The best way to capture the messages is to turn off the screen pauses by going to the tilities section and reconfiguring your terminal. Then, ead messages, followed by orward retrieval with no pauses between messages. Be warned, however, that there are over 3000 active messages and it's highly unlikely that you could capture them all in just one phone call. It may take two or three (at an hour each). The best overview of how to use the system is the new-user information. You can reread it by going to the system information menu from the main menu. Also check the rest of the items on that menu. As far as understanding all the details of the board's operation and organization, that can only be done by exploring. Capture your whole on-line session to a disk file and move around the system exploring every corner. Don't worry if you don't understand something while on-line. Then, when you're off-line, go back and study the session log. Look at each key you pressed and understand how pressing that key got you to the next level. You should be a pro after only a few calls. Msg#: 4571 *GENERAL* 07/04/88 07:26:01 From: STEVE GREENHOUSE To: ALL Subj: "THE GURU" I just wanted to make my prescence known, and inform everyone of a little phenomenon going on on the west coast. Seems a few of us professional 'techies' (Avid Circuit Cellar readers, of course) have found a new "Guru" in Mr. Ciarcia. Anyone who plays laser-tag with real lasers gets my vote. (Anyone remember that article?) So, to Steve I say: Whatever you do to come up with these off the wall yet brilliant ideas, keep it going. You've got fans here eating this stuff up! (Bottle rocket performance data system? YEAH!) Any hints on what's comming up? Steve (I wanna be just like him) Greenhouse Avid hacker in the truest sense. Msg#: 4575 *GENERAL* 07/04/88 12:06:03 From: STEVE CIARCIA To: STEVE GREENHOUSE (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 4571 ("THE GURU") I'll presume if you want to follow my exploits then you be suscribing to Circuit Cellar INK. An up coming issue has our new remote surveilance system "Big Brother" and we are also building a computerized bartender. -- Steve Msg#: 4576 *GENERAL* 07/04/88 14:41:59 From: ROBERT ALLEN To: KEN DAVIDSON (Rcvd) Subj: THANKS As a recent owner of an SB180FX with the GT180 display, just wanted to say thanks that your BBS is here to support this little machine. Msg#: 4589 *GENERAL* 07/05/88 08:34:37 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: ROBERT ALLEN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 4576 (THANKS) Thanks for the comment. SB180 support here these days is pretty minimal. You should have seen the system two years ago if you want SB180 discussions. Msg#: 4577 *GENERAL* 07/04/88 14:52:29 From: JOE POTTS To: ALL Subj: WIRELESS MODEMS I'm working (in the background) on a wireless modem application. Does any one know of a reasonably priced source of such devices. Also would like to know if anyone has used wireless telephones for such an application or if anyone has any ideas about how to proceed. Any suggestions would be appreciated. Msg#: 4609 *GENERAL* 07/05/88 13:25:04 From: RON WILSON To: JOE POTTS (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 4577 (WIRELESS MODEMS) An article in a very recent issue of Radio Electronics was talking about building a pair of modems that transmit through the AC lines just like the X-10 remotes do. (or if you want "real" wireless, you could conect these modems to RF power amplifiers and directional antenaes) -- Ron Msg#: 4641 *GENERAL* 07/06/88 16:23:05 From: RICHARD ANDREWS To: JOE POTTS (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 4577 (WIRELESS MODEMS) . The AC modems apparently have lots of trouble with line noise and would probably require lots of error correction. . Depending upon how far you want to send the information you might be able to use one of those IR wireless headsets that Radio Shack sells. They have a mono and a stereo version. Msg#: 4680 *GENERAL* 07/08/88 09:56:30 From: JOE POTTS To: RON WILSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 4609 (WIRELESS MODEMS) Thanks for the suggestion. I'll look into the Rf amplifiers. Msg#: 4681 *GENERAL* 07/08/88 09:59:17 From: JOE POTTS To: RICHARD ANDREWS (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 4641 (WIRELESS MODEMS) Thanks. The IR devices probabldon't have enough range for my purpose which is primarily to use a wireless terminal to inventory items in a library. Msg#: 4686 *GENERAL* 07/08/88 15:25:26 From: RON WILSON To: JOE POTTS (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 4680 (WIRELESS MODEMS) It would also be possible to connect modem circuitry to a set of those VOX activated walkie-talkies - assuming a half duplex comm link is acceptable. -- Ron Msg#: 4706 *GENERAL* 07/09/88 16:19:45 From: LAWRENCE BEARSE To: JOE POTTS (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 4577 (WIRELESS MODEMS) Joe, another option might be to use the packet modems made for amateur radio application. They are half duplex though, but mine does have a parameter setting for full duplex. Maybe two CB or whatever transceivers can be used for this. There is built in error correction and will automatically operate the radio units to switch between transmit and receive modes. But again, and I have never looked into it, you may be able to use two different frequencies and set the modems for full duplex. The things run at 1200 or 300 baud to the radios and usually up to 9600 to the rs232. The units are available for around $100 or so each, and up to about $400 or so. Larry, WA1LGQ Msg#: 5025 *GENERAL* 07/20/88 17:55:34 From: ERIC NAUS To: RICHARD ANDREWS (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 4641 (WIRELESS MODEMS) Hi One method that seems to work for my robot is to use two different walkie talkies.By this I mean on set working at 49MHz and the other set working at 27 MHz. There is no crosstalk and allows full duplex communication. Just thought I'd put in my 2 cents worth. Bye for Now Eric The Naus Msg#: 4611 *GENERAL* 07/05/88 14:42:39 From: JOHN LAVIOLA To: KEN DAVIDSON (Rcvd) Subj: 64180 ASCI Ken, The following are init and low level routines used by my system.Transmission is done by passing a character to com_out().All my communication routines are done via polling, having been unable to get the interrupts to work.But it is no wonder as this development system I have inheritedconsists of an AZTEC C compiler (MSDOS), SLRMAC assembler,SLRNK linker (the SLR products run on a Z-80 coprocessor board).Macros had to be written for OUTO, INO and SLP. Any good development system ideas for running on a PC ? ;; initialization ; ; 7 MPE 0 N.A. ; 6 RE 1 Receive enabled ; 5 TE 1 Transmit enabled mvi a,064h ; 4 RTS0 1 RTS0 pin high outo CNTLA0,a ; 3 EFR 0 Error flag reset ; 2 MOD2 1 8 data bits ; 1 MOD1 0 no parity ; 0 MOD0 0 1 stop bit ; 7 MPBT 0 N.A. ; 6 MP 0 Multiprocessor mode off ; 5 PS 1 Baud Rate prescale = mvi a,020h ; 4 PEO 0 CTS low outo CNTLB0,a ; 3 DR 0 Baud Rate divider ; 2 SS2 0 selects 9600 baud for ; 1 SS1 0 4.608 MHZ crystal ; 0 SS0 0 /* * low level C routines *//* Rigel/CAS Serial Interface revision 1.0 * * John LaViola --- CAS Medical Systems, Inc. June 1,1987 * * This module labels as constants the internal registers of the 64180. * Functions contained in this module: * qterm() - query terminal * com_in() - serial input driver with handshaking and retry. * com_out() - serial output driver with handshaking and retry. * rt_out() - serial output driver - checks CTS but no retry. */#define CNTLA0 0x00 #define CNTLA1 0x01#define CNTLB0 0x02#define CNTLB1 0x03#define STAT0 0x04#define STAT1 0x05#define TDR0 0x06#define TDR1 0x07#define RDR0 0x08#define RDR1 0x09#define CNTR 0x0a#define TRDR 0x0b#define TMDR0L 0x0c#define TMDR0H 0x0d#define RLDR0L 0x0e#define RLDR0H 0x0f#define TCR 0x10#define TMDR1L 0x14#define TMDRIH 0x15#define RLDR1L 0x16#define RLDR1H 0x17#define SAR0L 0x20#define SAR0H 0x21#define SAR0B 0x22#define DAR0L 0x23#define DAR0H 0x24#define DAR0B 0x25#define BCR0L 0x26#define BCR0H 0x27#define MAR1L 0x28#define MAR1H 0x29#define MAR1B 0x2a#define IAR1L 0x2b#define IAR1H 0x2c#define BCR1L 0x2e#define BCR1H 0x2f#define DSTAT 0x30#define DMODE 0x31#define DCNTL 0x32#define IL 0x33#define ITC 0x34#define RCR 0x36#define CBR 0x38#define BBR 0x39#define CBAR 0x3a#define ICR 0x3f#define ITE0 1#define ITE1 2#define ITE2 4#include "hd64180.h"extern unsigned timer_c,timer_d;/* * com_out() - is a serial output driver specified in o_format(). * It utilizes CTS and waits for 10 msec. (2 ticks on the 5 msec. timer) * if CTS is not low. */com_out(c) char c;{if(!(in(STAT0) & 0x02)) { timer_c = 160; while(timer_c) { if((in(STAT0) & 0x02)) { out(TDR0,c); timer_c = 0; } } } else out(TDR0,c);}/* * rt_out() - is a serial output driver specified in o_format(). * Used only in real time cuff pressure transmit mode. * This function checks CTS: if CTS is low the character is transmitted; * if CTS is high no character is transmitted. */rt_out(c) char c;{ if((in(STAT0) & 0x02)) out(TDR0,c);}/* * com_in(c) - is the serial input driver. * This function utilizes RTS - waits for 15 msec. if RTS is not low. */com_in(c) char c;{if(!(in(STAT0) & 0x80)) { timer_d = 160; while(timer_d) { if((in(STAT0) & 0x80)) { in(RDR0,c); Msg#: 4628 *GENERAL* 07/06/88 09:02:52 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: JOHN LAVIOLA (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 4611 (64180 ASCI) The system made kind of a mess of your program segment, but I'll offload it and try to make some sense out of it. By the way, the new HD64180 instructions are IN0 and OUT0, not INO and OUTO. The "0" means that the high-order byte of the I/O port address is forced to zero. Msg#: 4622 *GENERAL* 07/05/88 20:55:35 From: JOHN COOK To: ALL Subj: BIOS EXPANSION Can someone help here? I've just gotten my own computer (finally!) and I'm thinking of expanding the ROM routines by installing an EPROM into my spare ROM socket (the blank socket next to the BIOS chip). I know what size chip i need but i cant seem to find info on how use the expanded ROM. I'm thinking that i can use the CALL command or call any installed routines with DEBUG but its the details that are lacking. Thanks for the assistance, John. Msg#: 4729 *GENERAL* 07/10/88 10:41:23 From: PELLERVO KASKINEN To: JOHN COOK (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 4622 (BIOS EXPANSION) I have sort of similar desire. I have a NEC Multispeed laptop that has some POP-UP utilities in ROM. But there appears to be two more ROM sockets that evidently are for similar application expansion. However, there is no information about them or anything possibly available from NEC. I think the BIOS expansion and those operations are fairly easy to implement, after you know how the socket is wired into the address space. There are hooks in the existing BIOS, if I can tell. Just get some good book like those by Ray Duncan (they are not cheap!) and you could start doing things. -- PJK Msg#: 4623 *GENERAL* 07/05/88 21:04:47 From: JOHN COOK To: ALL Subj: BIOS TROUBLE Here's some info for anyone who has had trouble expanding from and 84-key keyboard to a 101-key keyboard. Check out your BIOS. Some new clome BIOSes wont run with 101-key keyboards, but they will run with 84-key ones. The problem typically appears to be a bad keyboard and a service person may not recognise the true problem. What you can do is change your BIOS to something more reputeable or something that you KNOW works. My solution was to get a friend's old BIOS that I know works w 101 keys. Happy Computeing! John Msg#: 4642 *GENERAL* 07/06/88 16:33:55 From: JOHN MEALEY To: ANDY FLATT (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 4187 (RANDOM KEYPAD) Been away in SF for a week and look what I missed! Over good Hot Szechuan at Brandy Ho's, we talked about various ways to make cheap random digital keypads that would fullfill the requirments. One person brought up the unpleasent idea that unless many were made (economies of scale) it would be best to purchase the manufactured one that is in most security related rags these days from $200 to $500+. Another suggested a simpler but less elegant approach: have a soft chime go off each time the door is left open for a determined length of time, coupled with a small plate over the existing simplex mechanical lock to cover "Combo-droppers". We are opting for this option and will have it installed by the next weekend. Both of my friends mentioned that the most effecient way to accomplish something may not be the "funest" or the most technical way. I had hoped to get severe penaties for the door left open violation, but allass all I could get from management was flogging. -it's been great -mealey Msg#: 4648 *GENERAL* 07/07/88 00:04:36 From: GREG SHOWMAN To: APPLE USERS Subj: APPLES HI! I'M NEW TO THE COMMUNICATION SCENE AND WAS WONDERING IF THERE ARE ANY APPLE SUPPORTED BOARDS AROUND. PLEASE LEAVE ME A MESSAGE. THANKS GREG SHOWMAN Msg#: 4688 *GENERAL* 07/08/88 15:49:54 From: RON WILSON To: GREG SHOWMAN Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 4648 (APPLES) I'm here; but I'm also IBM and other stuff - ron Msg#: 4666 *GENERAL* 07/07/88 20:50:23 From: TAEGAN GODDARD To: ALL Subj: RE RS232 REMOTE INPUTS To anyone who has an opinion.... I just read the article in Radio Electronics (everyone's favorite mag) about the RS232 remote input system. I'd like something just like that. It looks easy enough for me to build - even though I have little formal electronics training. Is it worth the trouble? Does it work? Thanks. ...Taegan Msg#: 4915 *GENERAL* 07/18/88 09:56:23 From: STEVE CIARCIA To: TAEGAN GODDARD (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 4666 (RE RS232 REMOTE INPUTS) It looks easy but I would't expect it to work very well. Searce back a few messages. We discussed this RE design and its problems already. -- Steve Msg#: 4946 *GENERAL* 07/18/88 14:50:54 From: TAEGAN GODDARD To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 4915 (RE RS232 REMOTE INPUTS) Thanks for the info Steve. RE is one mag I shouldn't keep reading. Msg#: 4671 *GENERAL* 07/07/88 23:12:44 From: THOMAS BARNETT To: JEFF JENSEN (Rcvd) Subj: SCHEMATICS Jeff have you had any sucess locating your SST-225 schematics? This business of trying to find drawings on add-ons for pc's is the pitts. I have a potpourri of plug-ins for my PC and no schematics at all. It is difficult enough to install them and hope that the literature provided is accurate. Everytime I install a new board I end up second guessing the explaination or trying to understand the rational, if any was used, behind the instructions. Despite the availability of PC software, Paintbruch is useless if you can't get your mouse operating. That means trips back to the dealer to hear "have you tried this, that, or something else?" Yes, yes, a thousand times yes. "Well I guess it is not working". Great, tell me something I dont know. Now after a three week or so wait while the part is sent to the manufacturer it finally comes back with a note attached "Can not duplicate customer complaint". Finally a month later you discover that a board installed a year ago in slot seven has a dip swith marked "not used" off in the number six position. Turn it on and everything works. This scenario may seem a little abstract but thats the way it usually goes. If you find a cashe on schematics, let me know. THOMAS Msg#: 4692 *GENERAL* 07/08/88 17:42:36 From: JEFF JENSEN To: THOMAS BARNETT (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 4671 (SCHEMATICS) Thomas, I completely agree with you about the sorry state of "System Integration." Last year we did a project where we placed 450 clones around the country (read, out of our control) and immediately found a bug or incompatibility between the keyboard, the PC keyboard controller and our application--a three-way gotcha! Of course no one else had reported the problem and of course it must have been our software. After 6 weeks of finger-pointing (all the time the customer was saying "Whats going on?") they "discovered" that in fact the keyboard did have a bug, the revision of the keyboard controller was incorrect and the manufacturer decided to replace the components. On the bright side, what about that nice warm feeling you get when ya nip the little bugger and get things to work? If you have any specific schematic or documentation problems, leave a note and I will look through my stacks. -- Jeff Msg#: 4689 *GENERAL* 07/08/88 15:57:30 From: HUGH NEWBURY To: ALL Subj: ECHELON INC Does anyone have a telephone number for Echelon Inc? The last one I had (415/948-3820) was changed to 916/577-1105, but this is now being reported discontinued. If Echelon has gone out of business, can anyone please tell me how to get a copy of their documentation ZCPR3:THE LIBRARIES. All help gratefully received. Hugh Newbury, Dorset, England (hewbury on bix). Msg#: 4730 *GENERAL* 07/10/88 10:45:10 From: PELLERVO KASKINEN To: HUGH NEWBURY (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 4689 (ECHELON INC) The support for ZCPR and related material is now under the capable hands of Joe Wright and his Alpha Systems. There is an earlier message on this board about the fact. If you can not find it, I can dig out the address and telephone number (I have them buryed in a disk file rather than in printed form presently). -- PJK Msg#: 4923 *GENERAL* 07/18/88 10:16:36 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: HUGH NEWBURY (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 4689 (ECHELON INC) That's right. All ZCPR3-related support is now being handled by Alpha Systems Corp. They can be reached at 711 Chatsworth Place, San Jose, CA, 95128, (408) 297-5594. Msg#: 5121 *GENERAL* 07/23/88 06:27:06 From: HUGH NEWBURY To: KEN DAVIDSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 4923 (ECHELON INC) Many thanks for the info. I sure need those books. Msg#: 4696 *GENERAL* 07/09/88 00:31:35 From: CLAYTON ZEKELMAN To: BOB PADDOCK (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 3776 (MORE ON MACHINE READABLE LISTING) Huh? BP> Back when Byte magazine was still around, they had an issue devoted BP> to LASER type devices. Since when did Byte magazine go belly up? >>Clayton<< Msg#: 4751 *GENERAL* 07/11/88 07:45:01 From: BOB PADDOCK To: CLAYTON ZEKELMAN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 4696 (MORE ON MACHINE READABLE LISTING) I said that with toung-in-chek, but I personaly fell it went belly up about two years ago. Thats when it started all of this clone review/PC stuff, at the exclusion of every thing else. I have almost all of the Bytes, from issue #1, I refer back to them often, but the lattest ones I've been ripping out the few good things (Like Steve's stuff), and throwing the rest away. I fell that I wasted my money when I renewed for 3 years, I subscrbed when they had useful stuff, and what do we get now (junk that you can get in other dedicated PC magazines)? What I thought was ironic was when the editor of Dr Dobbs lamented the passing away of Byte a few issues ago in his editorial; seems funny to have the compition (?) complaining..... Byte will have truly died with the first issue of 1989, when Steve is no longer in it (see bulletin message here). Msg#: 4697 *GENERAL* 07/09/88 00:33:23 From: CLAYTON ZEKELMAN To: KEN DAVIDSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 3739 (TOP SPEED FOR MODEMS) V.32 Full Duplex... the only way to fly. >>Clayton<< Msg#: 4698 *GENERAL* 07/09/88 00:41:41 From: CLAYTON ZEKELMAN To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 3863 (8088 SIGNALS) Come on Steve - what ever happened to the good old days when someone would shoot a technical explanation in a magazine right over everyone's heads, and get tonnes of letters from people who blew up their systems trying to follow the directions. Some of the articles in the early 80 Microcomputing come to mind.. :-) >>Clayton<< Msg#: 4919 *GENERAL* 07/18/88 10:03:38 From: STEVE CIARCIA To: CLAYTON ZEKELMAN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 4698 (8088 SIGNALS) I've been known to publish a few snow jobs on ocassion :-) -- Steve Msg#: 4699 *GENERAL* 07/09/88 00:45:36 From: CLAYTON ZEKELMAN To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 3864 (68010 VS 68000) The question is, *WHY* would anyone *WANT* to do 68000 projects? or 68XXX projects for that matter. I still havent seen a system with any 68xxx processor that actually runs quickly. Harris Corp. knows what to do with the 68k - they use it as a small boot loader system for their HCX-7 RISC based computer. It also runs the console's serial port (the slowest one on the system). I think one of the engineers over there was being very cruel to Motorola when he did that.... >>Clayton<< Msg#: 4715 *GENERAL* 07/09/88 20:31:11 From: JONATHAN STOTT To: CLAYTON ZEKELMAN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 4699 (68010 VS 68000) Some of us are interested in doing 68xxx projects because that is what we have for CPU's in our computers! (i.e. Amiga/ST/Macintosh) -Jonathan Msg#: 4721 *GENERAL* 07/09/88 23:06:50 From: MARK BALCH To: CLAYTON ZEKELMAN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 4699 (68010 VS 68000) I don't claim to be a 68000 guru (to use steve's phrase) but Motorola has been shortchanged by IBM using the 80x86 for all of its computers. Many people don't like the 80x86 family but are forced to use it because that is what Big Blue uses. If more people took a closer look at the 68000 then there would probably be more systems using it that run FAST. I'm not saying that everyone would like it, but certainly not everyone loves the 80x86s! Mark. Msg#: 4722 *GENERAL* 07/09/88 23:08:28 From: MARK BALCH To: JONATHAN STOTT (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 4715 (68010 VS 68000) At least someone speaks out! Not only is the 68000 used in those systems but it and its brothers (68010,68020,68030) are GOOD MPUs! Mark. Msg#: 4747 *GENERAL* 07/10/88 23:32:28 From: STEVE GREENHOUSE To: MARK BALCH (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 4721 (68010 VS 68000) Personally I use a NEC V20 chip in mine. It took a few days to realize that I can use the Z80 instruction set with it. Not that that has much to do with the 68xxx series, but it's an alternative. Msg#: 4753 *GENERAL* 07/11/88 07:56:26 From: BOB PADDOCK To: STEVE GREENHOUSE (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 4747 (68010 VS 68000) I tought the V20 only did 8080 instructions, not Z-80? The 8080 was the predeseor to the Z80, and as such the Z80 doese all of the 8080 instruction s. Msg#: 4819 *GENERAL* 07/13/88 10:09:53 From: BOB PADDOCK To: CLAYTON ZEKELMAN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 4699 (68010 VS 68000) This is taken from EMU.TXT in CPM.ARC [CP/M emulator for the 68000 based Atari 1040st] by GERD HILDEBRANDT, HERBERT THIESS. : With the growing demand for software flexibility, the limits of the 8 bit generation, especially the 64 K addressing range, were encountered. The first microprocessor of the new 16 bit generation, the Intel 8086, was quickly pushed into the market. Its instruction set and register structure were designed as an extension of the 8080/8085. So it was possible to transfer exis- ting programs easily to the 8086. The limitations of the 64 K addressing range were overcome, [If they had been over come then we wouldn't have all this junk about Small, Large, and Huge modle programs.] but a lack of orthogonality and addressing capability in the architecture remains. The successor 80186 was extended by some hardware-features, but the poor instruction set was retained. The same applies to the 80286 in its compatibility mode. The new 286 mode is hampered by design flaws on the chip. [Probably fixed by now?] : Other microprocessor developers did not insist on upward ompatibility and took the chance to introduce new concepts of CPU architecture with their 16 bit generation microprocessors. Thus the 68000, even though it came late, is now established as an alternative to the 8086. The 68000 family was extended by the more powerful 68010 and the 32 bit processor 68020. [and now the 68030 and 88000.] : Today the 16 bit micro market is mainly divided between two opponents: on one side the conventional 8086 family with a large software base and on the other side the advanced 68000 family with less software as yet available. In contrast to the 8 bit generation, in the 16 bit generation no microprocessor and therefore no operating system has become established as a stan- dard. [MS-DOS has become the defacto standerd sense this was written.] The ongoing confusion about future trends leads to uncer-tainty for customers and blocks investment in both new hardware and software. : : [So why is it that Sun work stations use 68020s and not 8086 or 80286s, could it be preformance?] Msg#: 4834 *GENERAL* 07/14/88 08:43:45 From: ALAN GOLDSTEIN To: CLAYTON ZEKELMAN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 4699 (68010 VS 68000) . Just to throw my 2 cents in, one reason that I use the 68xxx (and 6809) is the OS-9 operating system. It provides multiuser, multitasking support with pipes, filters, interprocessor communication (sounds like OS/2 - the biggest example of vaporware to date) with modular structure and configurable support for I/O. OS-9 has been around for over 10 years and is very Unix like, but is much smaller and less disk intensive. Since it is only available for the Motor ola families, there are a lot of PC users that don't know what they are missing. Msg#: 4976 *GENERAL* 07/19/88 07:56:57 From: DAVID HESSLER To: ALAN GOLDSTEIN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 4834 (68010 VS 68000) Alan, it really bugs me to catch you preaching the good OS-9 word to so many unbelevers. Radio Shack, no less, offered os-9 for the 6809 COCO color computer for $69 years ago, and had all the best minds in mainframe architecture and firmware/OS design loving it. it allowed 4 users on a 8 bit machine to run a board and lab control system while they edited code.. on the new systems like mentor/apollo/sun/mac-2 it offers so much more than any other system that it is impossible to put it all in a dozen articles, and in which journals, since it is equally important to the starter hackers and the super unix buffs. Variants are available in C to do real time avionics for fighters and the LHX, blue thunder chopper silicon copilot and incomming fire control officer while doing damage control and navigation in an integrated multi-processor attack aircraft system. I am glad someone came forward to answer the critics of OS standards today.. Dave Msg#: 5180 *GENERAL* 07/25/88 12:51:18 From: ALAN GOLDSTEIN To: DAVID HESSLER (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 4976 (68010 VS 68000) . I started with an old CoCo 1 with 4k of RAM. After two hack & chop sessions, the 64K machine was my intro to OS-9. We are using it for stand-alone ROM based systems, since the kernel and whatever modules are required can be put in ROM. True - it's not as compact as writing your own scheduler/manager, but who has man-years to waste when EPROMs are cheap. I haven't worked with OS-9/68K, but plan to soon. A 68030 should make OS-9 the system to beat. Msg#: 5208 *GENERAL* 07/26/88 08:09:22 From: DAVID HESSLER To: ALAN GOLDSTEIN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 5180 (68010 VS 68000) alan, glad to hear good os-9 things are still happening, you too should chat with fred ford in phila, unisys, he and many others there are into heavy os-9 on several systems, 215-363-6855,voice. dave Msg#: 5739 *GENERAL* 08/04/88 23:09:47 From: CLAYTON ZEKELMAN To: BOB PADDOCK (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 4819 (68010 VS 68000) Re your comment on Sun workstations. They use the following chips: 68020's, 80386's and SPARC processors. The 68k based systems are considered to be almost the 'bottom of the line' right now.. >>Clayton<< Msg#: 5740 *GENERAL* 08/04/88 23:11:07 From: CLAYTON ZEKELMAN To: ALAN GOLDSTEIN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 4834 (68010 VS 68000) I have heard of OS-9 - have never used it. I have heard that it is quite streamlined though. One thing I do remember is that the CoCo from R/S ran a version of it.. >>Clayton<< Msg#: 4700 *GENERAL* 07/09/88 00:52:18 From: CLAYTON ZEKELMAN To: ROB BENJAMIN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 3886 (S100 INTERFACE) Just incase it helps, the IEEE standard you are looking for is the IEEE-696 standard. >>Clayton<< Msg#: 4701 *GENERAL* 07/09/88 02:32:49 From: MATTHEW LEVINE To: ALL USERS Subj: HELP WITH S-100 I RECENTLY AQUIRED AN ANTIQUE OF SORTS IN THE FORM OF A CROMEMCO S-100 COMPUTER AS A COMPLETE PACKAGE MINUS MONITOR AND ,YES IT'S TRUE,SOFTWA RE . THIS DUAL DSDD FLOPPY SYSTEM IS RARING TO GO BUT PARDON THE EXPRESSION, IT IS STUPID! IF I SUPPLY THE DISKS, CAN SOMEBODY OUT THERE SUPPLY THE SOFTWARE? ->->->THANKS MATT<-<-<- Msg#: 4703 *GENERAL* 07/09/88 15:09:39 From: WILSON SNYDER To: ALL Subj: HIGH SPEED DATA TRANSMISSION I am looking for a method to transmitt about 2 Mbit of digital data over a radio link I have found a chip or two that can modulatethis rate, but they are intended for twisted pair/ coaxial direct wiring, so for my application they will not work.OA I am most interested in any ideas, if necessary, I am willing to make my own chip in silicon. (I am a student at Rensselear Polytechnic Institute, and this is a project for one of the clubs.) Msg#: 4704 *GENERAL* 07/09/88 15:12:14 From: WILSON SNYDER To: WILSON SNYDER (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 4703 (HIGH SPEED DATA TRANSMISSION) For more information, please contact me here, or at (802) 658-3799. (I left out that the bitstream is bi-directional half-duplex, so a transciever is really what is desired.) Msg#: 4754 *GENERAL* 07/11/88 08:07:57 From: BOB PADDOCK To: WILSON SNYDER (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 4703 (HIGH SPEED DATA TRANSMISSION) The problem with high speed data, whether it be over wire or radio, is its bandwidth. In theory you could have infanent bandwith on a ideal peice of wire, but on a radio system using alot of bandwidth means that you may interfer with they people on the frequencys around you. If your application is non comertical, get your self a Amateur Radio liscance, and a pair of 10 GHz Gun-Plexers (Spelling, and/or trade mark?). If your application is comertical, then you have to mess with all of that nasty FCC paper work to get assained a frequency, if there are any avaialbe in your area that will accomadate such a wide signal. It is the radio that is the limiting factor, not the silicon. Msg#: 4707 *GENERAL* 07/09/88 17:39:28 From: JACK PERGAL To: TAEGAN GODDARD (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 4361 (BSR MODULES) Is your TV equipped with an infrared remote control? I remember coming home from work and finding the tv on. I new I left it off and after a few mysterious turn ons, figured that the light from the reddish sunsets was signaling the remote control to turn the tv on! I put the tv in a new spot with the back facing the sun and no more problems. I thought the signals from the controller were encoded to prevent false turn ons, but all that sun light must have produced the correct code. . Jack Msg#: 4737 *GENERAL* 07/10/88 14:20:39 From: TAEGAN GODDARD To: JACK PERGAL (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 4707 (BSR MODULES) I didn't think the sun could trigger IR remote controls... But, my TV is is too old to have a remote controller anyway. I switched appliance modules - from the old brown ones to the new beiges ones - an VOILA!, no more problems. Steve and Ken knew the problem, as they had it happen themselves.. Thanks...Taegan Msg#: 4719 *GENERAL* 07/09/88 22:54:33 From: MARK BALCH To: BOB PADDOCK (Rcvd) Subj: TRIAL AND ERROR Yep, I agree with that. I don't know if I wrote this to you or someone else, but I am new to the microprocessor scene and am still struggling with the 8-Bits! For now, 16-Bits are at least a year away. Then mabye I'll start with the trial and error... Mark. Msg#: 4720 *GENERAL* 07/09/88 23:02:29 From: MARK BALCH To: KEN WILSON (Rcvd) Subj: 68XX INFORMATION Ahhh...now this sounds too good to be true! Thanks for offering all of this, but I'll have to hold off on this for a few months. I have had many problems starting up with 8-Bit MPUs. After I had read books about the 6800 and even designed a project (a simple computer with LEDs for output and RS232 for I/O) and even wrote machine code for it I was sure that I could see whether I could build a working model. Right? Well...To use the 6800 in a circuit, I needed to burn EPROMs and so I bought a programmer. That was in December. To this date I have had trouble with the programmer and the company and just yesterday sent it back for MORE repairs. Looks like it'll be another two months or so before I can start those darn EPROMs and see if my project ACTUALLY WORKS!!! Ah well thats the breaks of life! After I find out if I "know what I'm doing" then I'd like to conntact you again for some of that stuff. Sounds like that could help me alot. Thanks again! Mark. Msg#: 4780 *GENERAL* 07/12/88 00:51:39 From: KEN WILSON To: MARK BALCH (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 4720 (68XX INFORMATION) I have a Motorola 6800 manual, cira 197? that gives the entire specs for the device. After leaving the last message, I found more, including a prom programmer...for the 6800 SS50 bus. When you're ready, let me know. Sure seems a waste to let the stuff go, so will hang onto it until someone who will use it, asks for it. Good luck. Surely someone could burn the proms for you, until you get your burner repaired. Check some of the other guys, maybe someone lives close and has the time. Also, some neighborhood boards might be of help. Keep in touch. Ken Msg#: 4894 *GENERAL* 07/18/88 07:54:22 From: MARK BALCH To: KEN WILSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 4780 (68XX INFORMATION) Thanks for offering the programmer & data. As of yet, I can not use the programmer because I do not even have a SS50 bus (whatever that is) at all. does that data book give more information than Motorola's 8-bit MPU ref. book? The book I have seems to cover alot but of course has no troubleshooting tips or other useful 'quirk' information. Mark. Msg#: 4991 *GENERAL* 07/20/88 01:13:09 From: KEN WILSON To: MARK BALCH (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 4894 (68XX INFORMATION) The SS50 bus was a hot item several years ago for the 68xx community. Several manufacturers made equipment for it. Something like the buss on the PC. Nothing on the motherboard but connectors. The CPU was on one board, Ram on another, I/O on another.... and so on. You could get a pretty good system going. Only problem was, no manufacturer with the clout of IBM would adopt it and it died a slow and painful death. I'm sure some old 6800 hackers like myself are still around, but where is a good question. The 68XXX, especially the 6800 and 6809 were easy to glue together and a lot of fun. "Flex" and "OS9" were the competing DOS's and both are still around. By the time I got around to fooling with DOS for the 6800, I was ready for the PC and never took the 68XX further. Often thought it'd be fun to pick up again. My work number is 213-806-4180. If I can be of help, give a call. Be sure to leave a message as I travel a lot and will have to return your call. (Besides, it'll be on my company credit card.) Too much information for this system, besides few are interested Ken Msg#: 5630 *GENERAL* 08/02/88 23:19:54 From: MARK BALCH To: KEN WILSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 4991 (68XX INFORMATION) Oh thanks, I'll think it over. Right now alot is going on. After I get a chance to sit and think for a minute then I'll look around some more. Mark. Msg#: 4725 *GENERAL* 07/10/88 01:31:58 From: THOMAS BARNETT To: JEFF JENSEN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG. 4692 (SCHEMATICS) Jeff, I needed schematics on the Jameco XT motherboard and multi I/O card. I was having trouble configuring the primary serial port, but since I left the last message I have corrected the problem, no thanks to Jameco Technical Services. When I called them all they could tell me was that I had a defective board and to return it if it was still under warrantee, or find someone to repair it if not. When I asked if I could order the schematics they gave me a firm "NO". Only authorized repair centers could receive them. Now you are right, it is a good feeling to find the problem, espically when you do it blind-folded on a board with 70 IC's. This one was a defective 1488 driver. Put a star under the raw luck column. I really do not understand the problem with manufacturers providing better documentation on their products. It couldn't be concern over piracy, there are already ten thousand clones on the marker and there can not possibly be that many ways to configure an I/O port when they all use the same addressing scheme. I supose there are unethical businessmen who would do anything to gain a buck, but I never knew a engineer who wanted to use someone elses design. Perhaps I'm wrong on that one, I hope not. THOMAS Msg#: 4770 *GENERAL* 07/11/88 18:39:05 From: JEFF JENSEN To: THOMAS BARNETT (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 4725 (REPLY TO MSG. 4692 (SCHEMATICS)) Thomas, I have been selling a few clone systems a year for the last few years, and have experienced the derth of documentation. Reasons for lack of clone docs vary. Motherboards, especially the two speed (turbo) machines, have never come with docs. The two speed circuit is "proprietary" in the designer's eyes. Most of the I/O cards used to come with docs, but lately they have not been Can you see any markings on the cards that might let you know who made the card? Generally, one of half a dozen cards are stuffed by a bunch of small companies. One larger supplier is DTK, who makes boards and assembles them. If you can find anything, I may be able to get some more info. A second reason clones are missing docs is that someone removes them in the chain of distribution, or is too cheap to print them in the first place. Its a shame that they are generally so poorly done and full of bugs, but are still so important to end users. . . Jeff Msg#: 5743 *GENERAL* 08/04/88 23:30:13 From: CLAYTON ZEKELMAN To: JEFF JENSEN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 4770 (REPLY TO MSG. 4692 (SCHEMATICS)) Heh, the DTK boards strike again - Ive got them in all my machines (from Level IV products in Livonia MI). They seem to be quite good. They havent failed me before.. >>Clayton<< Msg#: 5779 *GENERAL* 08/05/88 18:31:25 From: JEFF JENSEN To: CLAYTON ZEKELMAN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 5743 (REPLY TO MSG. 4692 (SCHEMATICS)) Clayton, I have had pretty good success with all the DTK boards. I've installed everything from motherboards to display adapters and I/O cards. They also make a hard disk controller, but I haven't worked with it. . . Jeff Msg#: 4726 *GENERAL* 07/10/88 02:59:47 From: CHARLES WARD To: KEN DAVIDSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 3512 (SENDING MESSAGES) I am using a new program now on a XT clone. The problem may go away now, I hope Msg#: 4727 *GENERAL* 07/10/88 03:45:51 From: CHARLES WARD To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: PC VIDEO PROBLEM Hi Steve, I just bought a new XT-clone, the computer seems to work ok, but when the screen should stay the same for a long time characters start changing at random. The computer is a Lazer XT from Sears, the video board is a combination cga, hercules, and mda ( is that right? ). Any idea what the problem might be? Msg#: 4757 *GENERAL* 07/11/88 09:27:29 From: JEFF BACHIOCHI To: CHARLES WARD (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 4727 (PC VIDEO PROBLEM) . Charles, . I've seen that problem! Your bus may have ringing on the clock lines, try moving it to a different slot (yeah that's what I said). Another posibility is the RAM on your VIDEO board. ATI, for instance uses 120 PFD to ground on some of the address lines (usually the lower ones and tacks these right onto the RAMs, sort of an after thought). These lines usually have a series resister in them to lower the ringing (undershoot and overshoot). . jeff Msg#: 4962 *GENERAL* 07/19/88 02:47:19 From: CHARLES WARD To: JEFF BACHIOCHI (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 4757 (PC VIDEO PROBLEM) . Jeff, . Thanks, I'll try a differant slot, and look ,things over. I was thinking maybe it was a refresh problem, like maybe they left refresh off the board and let access for the video do the refresh. In any case it is most noticable in basic. The status line at the bottom of the screen gets totally scrambled in a few minuts. There is no problem at all when this terminal program is running. . . Thanks again, Charles. Msg#: 4728 *GENERAL* 07/10/88 10:36:07 From: PELLERVO KASKINEN To: KEN DAVIDSON (Rcvd) Subj: SB180 MESSAGES Regarding your reply to Robert Allen, I would like to know if you still have the messages from the old board. If so, would it be too cumbersome to collect the SB180 discussions or a good part of them into a file that then would be posted on this board's file section. I have probably seen much of them, but not all. I was slow in coming up to speed and contacting the board after I had my SB180 running. . Another thing: I only call the board once per week and sometimes due to travel or vacation even less frequently. When I come back, I see an unpleasant amount of "Answer deleted" where people have not understood that the answers might be of interest somebody else. You have extensive initial instructions - so extensive in fact that probably few people read them. But I would hope a stronger emphasis on the desire for leaving the messages not killed by the recipient. On a local board here we had at least for a while an extra text on the command prompt to the effect that message killing is discouraged. . I also have noted that Bob Paddock may finally have gone bankrupt with all the telephone bills he must have accumulated by calling this board ;-) So, I have to try answering a few points during his absense. -- PJK Msg#: 4752 *GENERAL* 07/11/88 07:54:23 From: BOB PADDOCK To: PELLERVO KASKINEN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 4728 (SB180 MESSAGES) Nice to be missed :-) ????? Was on vacation for a week..... Msg#: 4905 *GENERAL* 07/18/88 09:37:22 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: PELLERVO KASKINEN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 4728 (SB180 MESSAGES) Sorry, but it would be far too involved to try and place all the SB180 messages from the old board into a file. The message base had binary codes mixed all through the original file, so it would involve reading all the messages, capturing them to disk, then editing the final file. Also, since I could only have 250 active messages, it would involve going back through megabytes of old message base files. It's not something that can be done in a free evening (or a free 40-hour week). I know what you mean about people deleting replies to messages. It is a problem that I have been complaining about for years, but it usually falls on deaf ears. On the old board, the system actually asked you if you wanted to delete the reply. On this board, elete is just one of the choices on the command line. I would disable it if I could, but there are cases where a person has a legitimate need to be able to delete a message to or from him. It would be nice to place an extra message on the command line about not deleting, but again that's not possible. If people aren't reading the introductory text, they should. I made it very clear that taking a few minutes during the first call to read it will save a lot more time down the road. Consider this a plea to all offending users: please read the introductory text right now if you didn't on your first call, and please don't delete messages from the public messages areas! Msg#: 4777 *GENERAL* 07/11/88 23:35:33 From: SHAWN TAYLER To: KEN DAVIDSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 4052 (PKARC VER 3.6) Thanks Ken. I know that you will find it to be the real McCoy! I got it from PKWARE as an update after I registered My previous copy. It has been very usefuland is even faster than Ver 3.5. Enjoy! shawn Msg#: 4910 *GENERAL* 07/18/88 09:43:34 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: SHAWN TAYLER (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 4777 (PKARC VER 3.6) In that case, I guess I'll remove the "Use at your own risk" message from its description. Msg#: 4970 *GENERAL* 07/19/88 07:27:14 From: SHAWN TAYLER To: KEN DAVIDSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 4910 (PKARC VER 3.6) Thanks Ken. I hope that many people get as much use out of it as I have. shawn Msg#: 4781 *GENERAL* 07/12/88 00:58:55 From: THOMAS BARNETT To: STEVE GREENHOUSE (Rcvd) Subj: V20 Steve, I've been looking for info on how to set up the 8080 emulation mode on the V20, what's the secquence? THOMAS Msg#: 5141 *GENERAL* 07/24/88 00:08:29 From: ANDREAS DESSOFF To: THOMAS BARNETT (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 4781 (V20) Forgive me for answering where I was not asked - I have the info you were asking for. From the NEC handbook: "The (V20has two operating modes ... the other is the 8080 emulation mode in which the instaruction set of the (8080) is emulated. A mode flag is provided to select between these two modes. Native mode is selected when MD is 1 and emulation mode when MD is 0. MD is set and reset, directly and indirectly, by executing the mode manipulation instructions. Tow instructions are provided to switch operation from the native mode to the emulation mode and back: BRKEM (Break for Emulation) and RETEM (Return from Emulation). Two instructions are used to switch from the emulation mode to the native mode and back: CALLN (Call native routine), and RETI (Return from Interrupt). The system will return from the 8080 emulation mode to the native mode when the RESET signal is presaent, or when an external interrupt (NMI or INT) is present." There is about a one page description of how the 4 mode switching instructions work - too much to type in. I you need these exactly, call a NEC distributor. I can also make a copy and send it to you if you let me know here or at (203) 374-3379. It may take me a few days though untill I get to copy and send it out. Hope this helps. . . . . . . . . . . Andy. Msg#: 5148 *GENERAL* 07/24/88 11:17:53 From: THOMAS BARNETT To: ANDREAS DESSOFF (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 5141 (V20) Andy, thanks. I did not really care where the info came from, just saw someone mention the subject and made a query. I've had this V20 home-brewed for over a year, and the only info I have is electrical data. I really never thought about NEC data book, I can probably find one of those someplace. Thanks again, I can figure most of it out from what you gave me. Thomas Msg#: 4783 *GENERAL* 07/12/88 01:18:13 From: PHIL CHADWICK To: KEVIN ONEIL Subj: IBM CASE SB180 Read your 709 msg with great interest. Would you please give me some information on the type IBM box you used? Did you use an IBM power supply? Mount Disk Drives in Case? Are you using the 50 pin extension of SB180 into case part to plug in boards?? Getting money together to start a project and would appreciate a reply since I like the layout of some IBM boxes. Msg#: 4927 *GENERAL* 07/18/88 10:39:50 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: PHIL CHADWICK (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 4783 (IBM CASE SB180) I've done similar installations. You can use the IBM PC power supply if you make an adapter cable. All the disk drives can be mounted inside the enclosure. Since the SB180 is *much* smaller than a typical IBM motherboard, you have plenty of room for the computer board. Just mount it on a few stand-offs (using plastic washers on both sides of the board!). *Don't* try extending the 40-pin I/O expansion bus to a backplane. Your SB180 will stop working. The expansion connector was designed to accomodate a single piggyback expansion board, not a whole busfull of boards. There is no buffering between the processor and the bus, so adding more than one or two boards will load it down to the point of not working. Msg#: 4960 *GENERAL* 07/19/88 00:30:43 From: PHIL CHADWICK To: KEN DAVIDSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 4927 (IBM CASE SB180) Say many thanks for the fast reply as I have been doing some fast calculating on a possible FX unit. I figured that there may have to be buffering on plug in units to operate correctly. Do you know if anyone has used Forth as a language on the SB180? Msg#: 4982 *GENERAL* 07/19/88 08:39:25 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: PHIL CHADWICK (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 4960 (IBM CASE SB180) If you have Forth for CP/M 2.2, then you have Forth for the SB180. I've seen some versions of Forth floating around on various BBSs, and I'm sure there are one or two commercial packages somewhere. Msg#: 4990 *GENERAL* 07/20/88 00:23:17 From: PHIL CHADWICK To: KEN DAVIDSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 4982 (IBM CASE SB180) Many thanks for reply on Forth CP/M 2.2, you have saved me a lot of time digging out facts. Now that I think of it the subject could be changed to forth CP/M 2.2.. Msg#: 4784 *GENERAL* 07/12/88 01:35:26 From: KEITH TUCHOLSKI To: ROB DUNCAN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 217 (DIGITAL VOLT METER) i'm intrested in knowing if there are any DVM chips availible that measure TRUE rms. the application is phase controll by computer w/ some form of feedback. Msg#: 4785 *GENERAL* 07/12/88 07:13:36 From: BOB PADDOCK To: KEITH TUCHOLSKI (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 4784 (DIGITAL VOLT METER) Request a copy of "RMS to DC Conversion Application Guide" from Analog Devices, (617) 329-4700. Msg#: 4818 *GENERAL* 07/13/88 08:48:48 From: ROB DUNCAN To: KEITH TUCHOLSKI (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 4784 (DIGITAL VOLT METER) I don't know about that. I am having trouble finding one that implements in few enough chips to be useable in my system, let alone reading true RMS voltage. My needs don't dictate the real necessity for reading ac signals. Msg#: 4924 *GENERAL* 07/18/88 10:34:20 From: STEVE CIARCIA To: KEITH TUCHOLSKI (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 4784 (DIGITAL VOLT METER) In CC INK issue #5 there is a standalone processor/3 1/2 digit ADC/RS-232 block which reads and processes analog data and sends it on command/event/l limit/etc to a computer. True RMS conversion could be added to the resident software with little trouble. Neat project! -- Steve Msg#: 4964 *GENERAL* 07/19/88 07:02:56 From: PELLERVO KASKINEN To: KEITH TUCHOLSKI (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 4784 (DIGITAL VOLT METER) To my knowledge there are no chips that would directly act as an RMS DVM but there of course are chips that do the RMS to DC conversion and then other chips for the DVM application on the DC signal. Looks like you are not looking for an actual DVM chip with the displays though, if you are talking about feedback in phase control application. I might say that seldom do you need RMS elements in the feedback for a phase control. The reasons are that a fixed setpoint keeps the feedback operating at almost the same fixed point as well and then the fixed relationship between the average and the RMS provide everything that is needed. However, if there is a need for the actual RMS, there usually is a need to compensate for varying line voltage as well! If this last case is your case, use a simple analog multiplier that provides a signal proportional to the actual power, rather than current. Put in a 5 V AC replica of the voltage and a 5 V replica of the current and get out a 120 Hz signal that is the true product of the voltage and current all the time. Filter it lightly and the DC level is proportional to the average power during the filtering time span. -- PJK Msg#: 4975 *GENERAL* 07/19/88 07:41:53 From: DAVID HESSLER To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 4924 (DIGITAL VOLT METER) Steve, the RMS meter article is super, but often someone needs to get accurate numbers on fast audio waveforms with high crest factors like pulses with duty cycles under 10 percent which can't be deduced from several readings in software later. there are RMS chips to put in front of the dvm for $15 from Analog Devices and others that handle the equivilant heating effect of short pulse or high harmonic distortion signals to .1 %. Dave Msg#: 4790 *GENERAL* 07/12/88 11:19:55 From: JIM BUGBEE To: ALL Subj: LAZER PRINTER I would like to know if anyone has had problems running a lazer printer through a serial port at 9600 or 19200 baud. The printer in question is a HP Lazerjet running on an IBM PS/2 model 80 with the dos 3.3 mode command. A cable from HP and recomended by HP is used. The problem is the computer reports an out of paper error when none has occured. Perhaps someone could shed some light. The serial interface has no formal provision for reporting a want of paper so MODE must be indicating this condition in an attempt to simulate a parallel printer. When does MODE decide that a paper error has occured? If you have any information please direct replies to David Chappell on this board. Msg#: 4796 *GENERAL* 07/12/88 14:22:08 From: ANDY PICKETT To: KEN WILSON (Rcvd) Subj: ST277 Ken: I am very familiar with the Seagate line of drives, as my company sells hundreds of them per month! The ST-251 (40 Meg) is the SAME DRIVE as the ST-277 (60 Meg) with 1 major difference: The ST-277 has plated media, and the ST-251 doesn't. What does this mean to you? Well... RLL controllers don't really require plated media, but that makes them much more reliable since you are recording your data with more density than on the ST-251. This same thing applies between the ST-225 (20 Meg) and the ST-238 (RLL 30 Meg) - - - the same drive, only different plated media. The ST-251 and ST-277 both have 820 cylinders, and 6 r/w heads. Hope this helps!! ---> Andy <--- Msg#: 4801 *GENERAL* 07/12/88 17:57:43 From: JEFF JENSEN To: KEN WILSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 4782 (ST277) Ken, I have been using an ST277 at home and at work in clone AT systems for about a year. I have also sold several to folks in town. The drive electronics are fairly solid--I have had a couple of crashes (if you saw the abuse my systems get, you would be suprised at only a couple of crashes) that I cannot attribute to any specific source. The mechanics of the drive are more of a concern for me. I have had several drives (sorry, I don't have exact records) that developed noises that sounded like bearing failures or grounding strap chatter. The problem has shown up in the first few months of operation and has not noticeably effected operation aside from the annoyance. The Seagate warranty has always covered replacement of the noisy drives, but it is a significant inconvenience to pack it off for RMA. Also, I have had a few compatibility problems since most software expects drives to have 17 sectors per track and RLL drives have 26 sectors per track. Spinrite (a drive maintenance utility) refuses to touch the drive. Mixing RLL and MFM drives is also tough, since controllers don't like to do both. Overall, I am happy with my 277s and would buy another if I needed one. The price to performance on them is good. . . Jeff Msg#: 4813 *GENERAL* 07/13/88 01:14:55 From: KEN WILSON To: ANDY PICKETT (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 4796 (ST277) THANKS A LOT. IT SURE DOES HELP! WITH SO MANY OPTIONS MAJOR MISTAKES CAN BE MADE. KEN Msg#: 4814 *GENERAL* 07/13/88 01:17:08 From: KEN WILSON To: JEFF JENSEN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 4801 (ST277) THANKS JEFF. THIS BOARD IS SOMETHING ELSE. SURE A LOT OF INFORMATION OUT THERE. THE LONG DISTANCE PHONE CALL IS WELL WORTH IT! THANKS AGAIN. Msg#: 4815 *GENERAL* 07/13/88 01:19:00 From: KEN WILSON To: BOB PADDOCK (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 4786 (ST277) THREE GUYS REPLIED TO MY REQUEST! OUTSTANDING! THANKS. Msg#: 4827 *GENERAL* 07/13/88 18:37:03 From: JEFF JENSEN To: KEN WILSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 4814 (ST277) Ken, I agree. Calling this board has become a habit that I don't care to break. Glad to give my two cents worth. . . Jeff Msg#: 4974 *GENERAL* 07/19/88 07:36:31 From: DAVID HESSLER To: KEN WILSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 4813 (ST277) Ken, I will be moving to philadelphia again in 3 weeks, and will be more restricted in calling, will want to get the messages on disk, and inc and find a fido net board at home to call thru. I will really miss all the action here. David Hessler Msg#: 4983 *GENERAL* 07/19/88 08:55:29 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: DAVID HESSLER (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 4974 (ST277) Unfortunately, we aren't tied into FidoNet at all, so finding a local Fido won't get you into here. Telenet has said that they will be adding the Hartford outdial for PC Pursuit by the end of August (of course, it was originally supposed to be done last January, so we'll see), so you'll be able to call here as often as you like for a flat $25 per month. Once Hartford is on-line, I'll post more details on how to sign up. Msg#: 5064 *GENERAL* 07/21/88 16:26:17 From: BYRON BLAKE To: DAVID HESSLER (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 4974 (ST277) David, Are you interested in Fido or Technical Type boards in Washington, DC area and/or Philly? I may be able to find some local nodes in Philly and Washington. Philly there are defintely two major systems and Washington atleast one. I did find a local in Omaha, NE for Jeff Jensen (on vacation in Hawaii). Regards Byron, KA1ILI Msg#: 5142 *GENERAL* 07/24/88 00:19:05 From: ANDREAS DESSOFF To: ANDY PICKETT (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 4796 (ST277) Since you say that you are very familiar with Seagate drives I am sorry to object to your description of the Seagate RLL drives. I bought two of them after I saw them advertised as "plated media". I have an 238 and a 277 and I have the technical manuals for them which I read. I can state therefore with authority that these drives do NOT use plated media - the are OXIDE but meet the specs required for RLL. Some one working for the competition even told me that these are the exact same drives as the non-RLL versions and are only selected from the general production to meet RLL specs. This may or may not be true. As for Seagate quality - the drives work. They are also among the noisiest drives that I know, and the quality of the noise on mine is particularly offending. The seeks sound like grinding metal and I worry about the mechanics grinding themselves to death. They have ONE BIG ADVANTAGE: you get more drive for the buck than from any other manufacturer, and with the huge number of drives sold they just have to be reliable (on the average, anyway). . . . . . . . . . . Andy Msg#: 5145 *GENERAL* 07/24/88 01:17:35 From: BYRON BLAKE To: ANDREAS DESSOFF (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 5142 (ST277) Andreas, I have to disagree with parts of your message and agree with others regarding the Seagates. I own a Seagate ST238R. The controller is a RLL 2,7 type (Adaptec 2072). The pricing of the Seagates is where I definitely agree with you. For $309 +s/h (Computer Shopper) I purcahsed a ST238R and the controller. The ST238R DOES NOT USE PLATED MEDIA. It is in fact Oxide. The confusion: Does Seagate choose out of the regular line drives to test for RLL specs? Does Seagate do some electronic-voo-doo on the electronics of these drives? What ever the case, the ST238R I have functions flawlessly and so far meets or exceeds all avg-seek (track-track) test specs (Using Coretest v2.7). Of course, with the XT I use the 1:5 interleave. The noise? What noise. This drive is absolutely quiet. Msg#: 5187 *GENERAL* 07/25/88 18:46:47 From: JEFF JENSEN To: ANDREAS DESSOFF (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 5142 (ST277) Andy, I also use an ST277 both at home and at work and do not have any noise complaints during normal operation. They do make a disconcerting sound when powered down as the heads park, but otherwise they are quiet. As I said in an earlier message, the ST277 and the non-RLL ST251 have a tendancy to develop spindle-related noise--either the bearing or the static strap. This has not been a terminal problem on the three noisy units I've worked with, but I also RMA'ed them post haste. If your noises come and go without relationship to usage (other than being powered up), you may want to contact your vendor for a warranty replacement. Jeff Msg#: 5205 *GENERAL* 07/26/88 07:58:57 From: DAVID HESSLER To: BYRON BLAKE (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 5064 (ST277) Byron, you are right, just looking for tech boards with long line links in phila, and for my son in oakland/concord ca. I am an engineer and have been working with avionics and medical circuits and displays in Teterboro NJ and Windsor Locks Ct for about a year away from home in Exton Pa, 30 mi west of phila. Cinti oh was home town, Mom is there, and I try to keep track of that too. I am going back to phila with a new job in two weeks and wanted to keep up with all the new news and info from around the world. so good new board lists of phila, oakland, DC and Cinti would be nice. I like to keep up with Steve and may try to support some articles on the Magnetic compass sensors work that ran here for a while, which I did on ASW USN Aircrew at Willow Grove PA, and with Aero Service magnetic mapping for years about 1958-65, and magnetic fuse man-with-gun detectors got Burroughs/ Unisys from 65-70, and in the new job on laser/magnetic fuse sensors for new shells. DAve Msg#: 5228 *GENERAL* 07/26/88 17:35:31 From: BYRON BLAKE To: DAVID HESSLER (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 5205 (ST277) David, I'l; be returning to college in September (Univ. of CT and a local Community College). Meanwhile, I am employed with a electronics firm in Connecticut. Hopefully I'll have the BBS listings to you prior to December!?! In December through Feb 1989 I'll be on vacation in Mexico and Belize (formerly British Honduras) and will operate my amateur radio station from those locations (KA1ILI). I am currently seeking permission from Mexico and Belize to do so. Regards Byron Blake FidoNet 1:142/911 and 0:142/550, sometimes 1:142/314 Msg#: 5248 *GENERAL* 07/27/88 00:53:10 From: ANDREAS DESSOFF To: JEFF JENSEN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 5187 (ST277) Thanks for the info. I think my noises come from the grounding strap - at least the screeching ones. I can slightly reorient the strap by bending it and then I have quiet for two weeks or so. In addition to those noises, the seeks also sound almost grinding - at least on the 277. I have been hesitating with the warranty claim as I have a lot of data on there, and the mail-order vendor is far away. So thanks for reminding me of the urgency of doing something about it! . . . . . . . Andy. Msg#: 5268 *GENERAL* 07/27/88 09:34:22 From: RON WILSON To: ANDREAS DESSOFF (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 5248 (ST277) You should NOT bend the grounding strap (you've violated the warrenty). However, a tiny spot of conductive silicone "grease" should work Msg#: 5299 *GENERAL* 07/27/88 19:25:23 From: JEFF JENSEN To: ANDREAS DESSOFF (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 5248 (ST277) Andy, I do recommend that you get the noise problem resolved. Warranty claims are generally drawn out, at least at the wholesaler/re tailer level, but it beats the heck out of losing the whole thing one week out of warranty. If you play your supplier right, you may be able to get the replacement before you ship the return unit. You may also be able to "get by" on a smaller drive in the interim. . . Jeff Msg#: 5310 *GENERAL* 07/27/88 23:41:09 From: ANDY PICKETT To: ANDREAS DESSOFF (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 5142 (ST277) Andy: Say, you know you're right! I was always under the ASSUMPTION (and you know "assume" means!) - - mainly because I never gave the Seagate liturature & tech specs much more than a once over. I'd have to agree with everyone else that you ought to RMA that drive as soon as possible. Thanks for the correction! :-) ---> Andy <--- Msg#: 5874 *GENERAL* 08/08/88 12:15:25 From: ANDREAS DESSOFF To: JEFF JENSEN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 5299 (ST277) Yes, thanks again. I do have another drive that I could use for a while, but smaller capacity and thus inconvenient. But it will have to do. Msg#: 5875 *GENERAL* 08/08/88 12:18:58 From: ANDREAS DESSOFF To: ANDY PICKETT (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 5310 (ST277) It's so easy to believe that they are plated since all other manufacturers that I know of use plated media for RLL drives. Seagate does not, which is a shame since plated media are, aside from meeting RLL, also much more resistant to destruction. I guess they have to save the money somewhere other than the economics of making a great number of them. Msg#: 5947 *GENERAL* 08/09/88 18:56:11 From: JEFF JENSEN To: ANDREAS DESSOFF (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 5874 (ST277) As a suggestion, you might want to backup your most valuable stuff using a couple of methods (Fastback, Backup, DS Backup, copy, or a tape backup). I have had the unpleasant experience of losing a hard disk, and finding out that my backups are garbage. In some cases, it was media and in others it was the backup tool. For instance, earlier versions of Fastback operating on a machine set at turbo speeds would happily write bits to a disk, but it was unable to recover the information later (after it was TOO LATE). - - Jeff Msg#: 5954 *GENERAL* 08/09/88 20:40:42 From: ANDREAS DESSOFF To: JEFF JENSEN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 5947 (ST277) Thanks for the advice, Jeff. I have had my own little data loss problems (aside from my professional experience as a computer consultant) - therefore I know how right you are and how important backups are. Thanks again . . . . Andy Msg#: 6006 *GENERAL* 08/10/88 18:27:18 From: JEFF JENSEN To: ANDREAS DESSOFF (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 5954 (ST277) Good Luck! - - Jeff Msg#: 4797 *GENERAL* 07/12/88 14:26:17 From: ANDY PICKETT To: DAVID CHAPPELL (Rcvd) Subj: LASER PRINTER (PAPER OUT MESSAG David: In response to your paper-out question, are you using the MODE command as follows:???? MODE COM1:9600,n,8,1,p The "p" at the end tells the computer to do infinite retries (or something like that). It's been a long time since I've used the original HP laser - - I've been getting spoiled with my HP Series II!!! ---> Andy <--- Msg#: 4806 *GENERAL* 07/12/88 22:16:39 From: THOMAS BARNETT To: JEFF JENSEN (Rcvd) Subj: SYSTEM COMPONENTS I have a truly generic PC/XT system, composed of the following: 1) Mother board, DTK XT turbo. 2) Multifunction I/O w/Hercules graphics, Diamond-Pak rev. 2 3) CGA, Multi Tech. 4) Modem, Practical Modem PM1200 5) Disk drive, 1 Tandon 360KB half height, 1 brand X (no markings). 6) Printer, HP Deskjet. Of the above only the HP offers complete documentation w/service manual. They also were great to work with from the manufacturer to the local salesman. I guess it goes back to that pair of boots I bought once that lasted only a week; you get what you pay for. THOMAS Msg#: 4824 *GENERAL* 07/13/88 18:21:43 From: JEFF JENSEN To: THOMAS BARNETT (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 4806 (SYSTEM COMPONENTS) Thomas, Real Men don't use documentation. Schematics? We don' need no steenking schematics. I can probably find a booklet on the mother board if you need it. Tandon used to sell service manuals for their stuff, but if the drive is out of production, I don't know what they will do for you. If you find yourself in need of any specific stuff, let me know. PS, I'll be absent from the board for a few days. . . Jeff Msg#: 4832 *GENERAL* 07/14/88 05:46:26 From: JASON SOLOFF To: ALL Subj: VOLTAGE REGULATORS YO, GUYS. I'M WORKING ON A PROTABLE ROBOT CONTROLLED BY AN ONBOARD 6502-A SYSTEM, AND I KNEED A STEADY, RELIABLE +5,+12,-12 VOLT POWER SUPLY COMMIND OFF OF DC BATTERIES. COULD VOLTAGE REGULATORS BE MY ANSWER? -JASON Msg#: 4836 *GENERAL* 07/14/88 12:15:57 From: BOB PADDOCK To: JASON SOLOFF (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 4832 (VOLTAGE REGULATORS) Yes voltage regulators are the anwser, now what's the question? :-) What is your battery voltage? How effecant does the power supply system half to be? If you have a 24 VDC battery, then you can use simple linear regulators, like the 7812, 7805, 7912, but then you are going have lots of wasted energey. What currents do you need? Msg#: 4977 *GENERAL* 07/19/88 08:04:17 From: DAVID HESSLER To: JASON SOLOFF (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 4832 (VOLTAGE REGULATORS) Jason, there are 15 semiconductor companies that make some sort of switching regulator chip that can do what you want. they will all send applications literature and catalogs and samples if you outline what you need, how you are going to use it and show some understanding of the electronics involved. regulators are not tolerant of abuse, do it right or buy another chip.. motorola, RCA, TI, varo, lambda semi and many others will help, study the Radio Amatures Handbook RAH, on power supplies, from the library. lots of lib books on robotics and kids that built them. Dave Msg#: 4993 *GENERAL* 07/20/88 01:22:51 From: JASON SOLOFF To: DAVID HESSLER (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 4977 (VOLTAGE REGULATORS) THANKS DAVE, I CALLED, AND NOW HAVE FIVE CATALOGS. JASON Msg#: 4835 *GENERAL* 07/14/88 11:36:23 From: LARRY YOUNKINS To: ALL Subj: ELECTRONICS PARTS SUPPLIERS Does anyone have a list of surplus electronics parts suppliers that they could upload? Thanks, Larry Younkins. Msg#: 4978 *GENERAL* 07/19/88 08:05:53 From: DAVID HESSLER To: LARRY YOUNKINS (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 4835 (ELECTRONICS PARTS SUPPLIERS) Larry, sounds like a super idea, broken down by part type and area, would help a lot of people, meanwhile just look thru the Newark catalog and order from the 800 numbers on visa in the back of Byte. DAve Msg#: 4838 *GENERAL* 07/14/88 13:53:46 From: RUSS HUGHES To: ALL Subj: INTELLIGENT RS-232 INTERFACE ??? Help !!! Does any one know where I can get an intelligent RS-232 interface card for a IBM AT. I need to send data at 19.2k baud in non-stop burst of about 4 to 16k in length. This data is going to a voice digitizer and the data stream must not stop until all the data is sent. I am using a 8Mhz Sperry Micro IT (no wait states) to send the data and my digitizer says that the pc is not keeping up with it. I think a can get around this by not using an interrupt driven routine to send data, but I would like to control up to 3 speeh digitizers at once. If any one has any idea, please let me know. Thank You Russ Hughes (509) 735-1531 Msg#: 4929 *GENERAL* 07/18/88 10:48:33 From: STEVE CIARCIA To: RUSS HUGHES (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 4838 (INTELLIGENT RS-232 INTERFACE ???) How about using a Circuit Cellar smart spooler. Send the data from the PC to the spooler at 38Kbps or so and out of the spooler at a steady 19.2 Kbps. --Steve Msg#: 4965 *GENERAL* 07/19/88 07:08:27 From: PELLERVO KASKINEN To: RUSS HUGHES (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 4838 (INTELLIGENT RS-232 INTERFACE ??) I think you do not need an intelligent communications board. What you would need is a program that provides a buffer directly in memory to cover the whole data. It is the access from disk that destroys your data continuity. It also helps to take over the hardware with at least BIOS levl calls rather than the DOS level calls, but all the present day high performing modeming programs already do that. I have found that FORTH is an easy way of achieving complete control over the hardware, bypassing even the BIOS. Complete data streaming either way I want... Msg#: 4979 *GENERAL* 07/19/88 08:10:08 From: DAVID HESSLER To: RUSS HUGHES (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 4838 (INTELLIGENT RS-232 INTERFACE ???) Russ, most serial boards will do, should have DMA control from a Memory file to allow fast continuous sending. do the drivers in C and expect several streams at 19.2 from memory. set up big buffers in memory to handle all the data, or use ram-disk files. Dave \ Msg#: 5189 *GENERAL* 07/25/88 19:40:27 From: RUSS HUGHES To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 4929 (INTELLIGENT RS-232 INTERFACE ???) Using EMS memory I've taken care of the disk reading. The problem, at least I think, is I'm using Turbo Pascal 4.0's text file device drivers... so much for taking the easy way out. I like Steve's idea best (why do with software, what hardware will do). I'm looking into a DMA based Sync-Async card that should do nicely. I'm also in a crunch so it's time to try a few more things. Thanks for the Idea's Russ Hughes Msg#: 4843 *GENERAL* 07/14/88 17:59:38 From: BYRON BLAKE To: ALL Subj: A/D CONVERTER FOR IBM XT 8 BIT BUSS GM/GA/GE all, I would like user input on building a A/D converter for an IBM XT buss. The converter need only one channel. I'm interested in KITS or assembled units. The purpose: To 'collect' data for a Sudden Inonospheric Disturbance program. I will be tuning a receiver to a fixed frequency carrier tone, and measure the AF voltage every minute or there abouts. I would rather use a parallel port than a serial port if at all possible. Recommendations on software (commerical or otherwise) is solicited for MS DOS (8088-2, 8 MHZ, IBM DOS 3.3) compatible. Replies appreciated Byron Blake, ARS KA1ILI Msg#: 4850 *GENERAL* 07/15/88 07:50:48 From: BOB PADDOCK To: BYRON BLAKE (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 4843 (A/D CONVERTER FOR IBM XT 8 BIT BUSS) It sounds like the Maxim UM-1 "3.75 Digit A/D Evaluation System" might be what you are looking for. It is based on thier MAX134. Thier number is (408) 737-7194. Msg#: 4860 *GENERAL* 07/15/88 19:21:52 From: ROBERT MCILVAINE To: BYRON BLAKE (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 4843 (A/D CONVERTER FOR IBM XT 8 BIT B) Check out the artical's in MicroCornucopia over the last several issues for the artical about useing a $20 parallel board and an a/d chip. The last issue had the a/d artical (one of many articals in aseries of things to do with a $20 dollar parallel card. Msg#: 4862 *GENERAL* 07/15/88 20:04:29 From: BYRON BLAKE To: BOB PADDOCK (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 4850 (A/D CONVERTER FOR IBM XT 8 BIT BUSS) Bob, Thanks for YOUR reply on the A/D converter query I entered. I'll let you know what I decide and how things turn out. Any suggestions on software? Byron, KA1ILI Msg#: 4863 *GENERAL* 07/15/88 20:05:41 From: BYRON BLAKE To: ROBERT MCILVAINE (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 4860 (A/D CONVERTER FOR IBM XT 8 BIT B) Robert, Thanks for YOUR suggestion on the articles in MicrCornucopia. Byron, KA1ILI Msg#: 4928 *GENERAL* 07/18/88 10:41:13 From: STEVE CIARCIA To: BYRON BLAKE (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 4843 (A/D CONVERTER FOR IBM XT 8 BIT BUSS) Hey, Byron, stop deleting the answers to your questions when people send them to you. --Steve Msg#: 4930 *GENERAL* 07/18/88 10:49:27 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: BYRON BLAKE (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 4863 (A/D CONVERTER FOR IBM XT 8 BIT B) Byron, please stop deleting message responses! It is extremely frustrating to read a message thread that begins with a question, followed immediately by, "Thanks for the informative answer" without ever seeing the answer. While I appreciate users deleting mail messages when they're done with them, I'll take care of the public areas. Msg#: 4951 *GENERAL* 07/18/88 20:09:34 From: BYRON BLAKE To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 4928 (A/D CONVERTER FOR IBM XT 8 BIT BUSS) Steve, Sorry -- about the deletions I have been making. It won't happen again. Thanks for the notice. Byron Msg#: 4952 *GENERAL* 07/18/88 20:10:58 From: BYRON BLAKE To: KEN DAVIDSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 4930 (A/D CONVERTER FOR IBM XT 8 BIT B) Ken, Thanks Ken for the ntoice regarding my deletion of users answers. I've been told by Steve C., and it won't happen again. My apologies. Byron Msg#: 4966 *GENERAL* 07/19/88 07:12:01 From: PELLERVO KASKINEN To: BYRON BLAKE (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 4843 (A/D CONVERTER FOR IBM XT 8 BIT) A parallel port is not always completely 2-way. Many computers have only output capability, except for the handshake line. There are VERY low cost boards that make it impractical to build one yourself. Check for instance for the Real Time Devices board AD100 for only $149. Call 814-234-8087 -- PJK Msg#: 4980 *GENERAL* 07/19/88 08:15:10 From: DAVID HESSLER To: BYRON BLAKE (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 4862 (A/D CONVERTER FOR IBM XT 8 BIT BUSS) byron, National Instruments and MetraByte make lab PC plugin boards and have good lab software for what you want to do, too much money, but get their lit and start writing, then come back here for morre advice. Msg#: 4987 *GENERAL* 07/19/88 19:09:55 From: BYRON BLAKE To: PELLERVO KASKINEN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 4966 (A/D CONVERTER FOR IBM XT 8 BIT) Pellervo, Thank you very much for the reply regarding the A/D converters and their reasonable prices ($149). I'll look into the specific model you mentioned and let you know how things turnout. Byron, KA1ILI Msg#: 4988 *GENERAL* 07/19/88 19:10:35 From: BYRON BLAKE To: DAVID HESSLER (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 4980 (A/D CONVERTER FOR IBM XT 8 BIT BUSS) David, Thanks for the reply. Byron, KA1ILI Msg#: 5008 *GENERAL* 07/20/88 12:08:49 From: BOB PADDOCK To: BYRON BLAKE (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 4862 (A/D CONVERTER FOR IBM XT 8 BIT BUSS) The software is supplied with the unit. Nice looking full screen stuff, sort of remindes you of Flight-Simulator, only you are getting useful stuff done. Msg#: 5027 *GENERAL* 07/20/88 20:00:46 From: BYRON BLAKE To: BOB PADDOCK (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 5008 (A/D CONVERTER FOR IBM XT 8 BIT BUSS) Bob, I hope that the software supplied with the A/D unit will allow me, in some way or another, to format the collected data to "make it import-able" to Lotus rev2, Dbase III, or Reflex. Regards Byron, KA1ILI Msg#: 5066 *GENERAL* 07/21/88 16:50:36 From: BOB PADDOCK To: BYRON BLAKE (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 5027 (A/D CONVERTER FOR IBM XT 8 BIT BUSS) I don't know the anwser to that one, you'll have to ask Max{_im that one if you desice to go that rought. Msg#: 5067 *GENERAL* 07/21/88 17:23:57 From: BYRON BLAKE To: BOB PADDOCK (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 5066 (A/D CONVERTER FOR IBM XT 8 BIT BUSS) BOB, THANKSFOR YOUR SPEEDY REPLY ON THE A/D CONVERTER QUESTIONS I HAD. Msg#: 4845 *GENERAL* 07/14/88 21:01:19 From: MATTHEW LEVINE To: SEE LIST WITHIN Subj: S-100 SOFTWARE TO: STEVE C. ROB BENJAMIN , KEN DAVIDSON , ROBERT MCILVAINE , AND CLAYTON ZEKEKMAN A FEW YEARS AGO , A RELATIVE OF MINE PUT TOGEHER A CROMEMCO S-100 COMPUTER WHICH WAS SUBSEQUENTLY GIVEN TO ME. THE PROBLEM IS THAT IT NEEDS SOME WORK. WHAT CAN I USE TO REPLACE A BAD POWER SUPPLY TRANSFORMER , A MONITOR , AND (HOLD YOUR SEAT) SEVERAL MISSING SYSTEM SOFTWARE DISKS? ANY HELP AND GUIDANCE WOUD BE APPRECIATED. ->->->THANKS , MATT<-<-<- Msg#: 4861 *GENERAL* 07/15/88 19:27:23 From: ROBERT MCILVAINE To: MATTHEW LEVINE (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 4845 (S-100 SOFTWARE) WOW! you don't need much, huh. The transformers should be easy enough but the software...... it's been a long time since I heard the name CROMENCO. That's back when George Morrow had hair and had't heard of Gary Kildall. I'll make some inquiries, if I get any tidbits I'll post it. Have you looked into the Compuserv SIG for discontinued models? Regards Msg#: 4890 *GENERAL* 07/17/88 01:27:34 From: MATTHEW LEVINE To: ROBERT MCILVAINE (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 4861 (S-100 SOFTWARE) THANKS FOR THE RESPONSE. MAYBE (SOMEDAY) WE CAN GET THIS OLD BEAR RUNNING AGAIN. ->->->MATT<-<-<- Msg#: 5020 *GENERAL* 07/20/88 15:24:05 From: LARRY BENTON To: MATTHEW LEVINE (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 4845 (S-100 SOFTWARE) Matt- My research prof brought a CROMEMCO system several years ago on my reccomendation. When he gets back into town he might be able to help you. Let me know which system you have and what software you need. larry Msg#: 5022 *GENERAL* 07/20/88 16:38:09 From: MATTHEW LEVINE To: LARRY BENTON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 5020 (S-100 SOFTWARE) THANKS - - - I'LL HAVE TO LOOK AT THE BOARDS AND GIVE YOU A LIST BECAUSE THE SYSTEM WAS BUILT ONE BOARD AT A TIME. CATCH YA LATER - - - MATT Msg#: 4846 *GENERAL* 07/14/88 22:52:17 From: TIM MCDONOUGH To: ALL Subj: SUMMER SALE I'm cleaning out my personal "circuit cellar" to raise cash for new projects. The following items are for sale. Most prices are negotiable. SB180 6Mhz sbc with Z-System software, bios, etc. ($300.00) SB180FX 9Mhz sbc with SCSI ($420) Integrand Model 8510 2 drive enclosure w/ps (heavy duty) ($110.00) XEBEC Owl 10Mbyte SCSI hard disk for SB180 ($400.00) ADC 1200 bps external modem. Hayes compat. ($65.00) Heathkit microprocessor trainer, with introductory course and microprocesso r interfacing course. ($200.00) Heatkit Model HW-8 CW Transceiver (no power supply 12v only) ($175.00) Microsoft FORTRAN for CP/M w/docs ($35.00) Turbo Pascal, Turbo Database Toolbox for CP/M ($35.00 ea/$50.00 pkg) Turbo Modula-2 for CP/M ($50.00) (not SB180 specific) MIX C compiler and editor for CP/M ($20.00 for both) NewWord word processing software for CP/M. Includes The Word spelling checker. ($50.00) Apple II Modem MGR software w/docs ($25.00) Apple II ZBasic Language System w/docs ($35.00) Apple II Apple Pascal w/docs ($75.00) Turbo Pascal Tutor for CP/M ($25.00) There it is folks. Like I said, everthing is somewhat negotiable but be reasonable. If you are interested either leave me a message here or call me evenings at 217-529-7679. Please call from before 10:00pm Central time. Tim McDonough Msg#: 4847 *GENERAL* 07/14/88 23:55:16 From: ADAM SUNDOR To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: HAL I have some questions concerning the excellent and wonderful project you designed, concerning HAL. My first question is about the differential amplifier and goes thusly. Please keep in memory that the question is quite technical and falls into the gap between psychologists who are not electronically inclined and vice versa. The question concerns what happens when two identical waves, of same amplitude and frequency are produced by the brain? If they are in phase and the same amplitude, would they not cancel each other? How would you correct this problem? If you have time, one of the original alpha wave researchers has an answer to this problem. His name is Les Fehmi and he produced and even patented a design concerning the simultaneous monitoring of a 5 channel EEG This device of his tells you when you are producing alpha waves from 5 different areas of the brain. He found that when they are in phase, the effect is much enhanced. This evening I discussed your project with him and he was impressed. He said that you could call him to discuss what to do when the waves cancel each other out in a differential amplifier. His practice is in New Jersey. One solution is to place the reference electrodes and ground off the head, on the ear lobes. As I suggested to your technician when I ordered a kit, they produce earring type of electrodes which are easy to attach to the ears. Also, salt water can be used much more easily and even effectively than gel electrodes. The electrodes for salt water have a different design though than the gel ones and may not be easily accessible. Do you agree that tieing the reference electrodes together would eliminate the problem of synchronicity that occurs in a differnce amplifier? Fehmi suggests that this is a very common mistake made in EEG biofeedback recording. May I ask you opinion? If you wish to contact me by phone, I can be reached at 215-657-0991 for the residence. In your article, there is not a picture of the placement of the occiptal electrodes and I did not understand the sentence: "Find a spot about a third of the way from the midline of your head to the common electrode placed on the mastoid and just on or below the ridge." I am probbably very dense, but I cannot work out...if the electrode is on the occipital ridge in the back of the head, then what dimension is the third referring to? If the reference electrodes are tied together, this would be a moot point, unless one measures the occipital activity. May I ask how the data is stored off-line for later viewing? I realize that often opening the eyes will shut down alpha production in the beginning. I hope this is self-explanatory from the program which I have yet to run. Thanks again for this project which is something I am looking forward to using. I think, according to Hutchinson's MegaBrain, the Mind Mirror is similar to what you did, but at a far greater cost. Msg#: 4911 *GENERAL* 07/18/88 09:44:24 From: STEVE CIARCIA To: ADAM SUNDOR (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 4847 (HAL) To be honest, I don't know a lot about biofeedback. I approached HAL as an engineering project (low level DC data acquisition) with the use left as an exercise for the reader. Regarding same frequency/phase/amplitude waves, if they are produced on both sides of the{brain simultaneously, a two channel HAL will register them equally. If two of these waveforms are produced between a set of electrodes on the same side of the brain I would presume they would be additive. That is why multiple electrodes are used; so that any signal produced is picked up by a close set of electrodes rather than integrated and averaged through just one. Hal supports 4 channels and theoritically can be easily expanded to 8 channels (we don't offer the software but the source code is available for $20 and you can modify it yourself). Regarding electrode placement on a 2 channel system, hang the ground on your ear, and with your fingers spread wide apart cover your ear with your palm. Put one electrode each where your little finger and thumb touch. On a two channel system it don't seem to make much difference. -- Steve Msg#: 4848 *GENERAL* 07/15/88 00:37:13 From: ERIC SCHMIEMAN To: ANYONE Subj: PC KEYBOARD I need a 12 key kepad (numbers 0-9 and "y" and "n") that is panel mounted and which is plug compatible with an IBM PC. Does anyone manufacture one already (I know keytronics manufactures a 24 key model)? If no one knows of a manufacturer, does anyone have a schematic that could be used/modified ? This is for a school interactive video project. Thanks in advance for your help Msg#: 4856 *GENERAL* 07/15/88 15:13:53 From: JEFF BACHIOCHI To: ERIC SCHMIEMAN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 4848 (PC KEYBOARD) . Eric, . Circuit Cellar INK has an upcoming article which uses a MICRO to mimic the serial output of an IBM PC/AT keyboard. Leave a message for BILL CURLEW on this board. BILL has already done work in this area. . jeff Msg#: 4866 *GENERAL* 07/16/88 00:49:14 From: ERIC SCHMIEMAN To: JEFF BACHIOCHI (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 4856 (PC KEYBOARD) Jeff, Thanks for your quick response. I'll leave a message for Bill Curlew. Msg#: 4867 *GENERAL* 07/16/88 01:10:53 From: ERIC SCHMIEMAN To: BILL CURLEW Subj: PC KEYBOARD Jeff Bachiochi suggested that I contact you regarding my need for a PC plug compatible 12 key keypad (0-9 and "y" "n"), panel mounted, for public use. Do you know of a manufacturer? I have found only keytronics, who makes a 24 key unit, not panel mount. Jeff said that you will be soon publishing an article on this topic. Will it include a schematic? Of course, I'm late on my project -- is an advance copy of your article available? Looking for a reviewer? Thanks in advance for any help you can give me. Msg#: 4869 *GENERAL* 07/16/88 02:37:58 From: WALT DIPPING To: ALLAN LONG (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 3050 (PROPANE ROCKET?) ACTUALLY CALCIUM CARBIDE GIVES OFF ACETELENE GAS WHEN MIXED WITH WATER. THIS WAS USED IN THE OLD MODEL-T FORD AND OTHER ANTIQUE AUTOS FOR THEIR HEADLIGHT SYSTEMS. I'VE BUILT A SIMPLE CARBIDE CANNON USING A SPARK PLUG, AND MODEL T SPARK COIL, AND A CAN WITH A PRESS-ON LID. A FRIEND TRIED THE SAME THING WITH A 5 GAL METAL TRASH CAN. BUT THE CAN EXPLODED, NOTHING LEFT Msg#: 4870 *GENERAL* 07/16/88 06:54:37 From: PELLERVO KASKINEN To: BOB PADDOCK (Rcvd) Subj: VACATIONS OK. So you did not go bankrupt! Indeed a vacation is a very good reason for not calling the board daily. Just a month ago I returned from a 3 week vacation. And I do not know if it is any cheaper than making long distance calls every day.... . -- PJK Msg#: 4887 *GENERAL* 07/16/88 18:46:36 From: THOMAS BARNETT To: JEFF JENSEN (Rcvd) Subj: REAL MEN, REAL COMPUTERS Gee's Jeff, I hadn't given that much thought. But since you've opened the subject, lets turn back the clock, circa 1977, february maybe? My first S-100 computer. These were the days of "real men", "real computers". This early system featured a 16 slot motherboard and CPU board by Wamco, 28 TTL to get this 8080 buffered and interrupted. 32K x 8 full static RAM (count 'em 256 2102-1 on four 8K x 8 boards (no wait states here, just write it and read it) an additional 11 TTL each board for address decoding and write protect. A full featured video/graphics board by Solid State Music, another 64 TTL (no LS just power hungry TTL). Serial I/O w/cassete interface, also by Solid State Music, another 47 TTL. Now to the good stuff, fully scoketed EPROM board, 10 1702A (burn it yourself, there were no standards, this baby took a 75V pulse), add another 12 TTL for buffering and address decoding and you had a real system, 461 TTL and RAM chips. When I fired up this puppy the city lights dimmed for six square blocks until another generator kicked in at the power plant. This was a "real man's" micro. But one thing it did have, every single board was sent with schematics, complete pin by pin circuit operation. These days are gone, and it seems so are the schematics. THOMAS Msg#: 5060 *GENERAL* 07/21/88 13:46:06 From: JEFF JENSEN To: THOMAS BARNETT (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 4887 (REAL MEN, REAL COMPUTERS) Thomas, that does bring back memories of my first couple of systems. The first was a 6502 based game with a 6532 (? I think, a few bytes of RAM, a clock and some ports), a 1702 and a couple of glue chips. The firmware was hand-coded in 256 BYTES and eventually, it worked. The second system was a wire-wrapped COSMAC Elf based on an 1802 with no ROM and 256 BYTES of RAM and 8 toggle switches for loading a program. I've still got that box somewhere and get cold chills thinking about loading a 100 byte program one bit at a time. Documentation came from Popular Electronics. My third system is an Ohio Scientific C2-4P, 6502 based "single board" computer. It had 2 K RAM in 2101's and a video board with about that much additional memory. I added a 24 K (!!!) RAM board and cooked the power supply. The RAM card used 2114 chips and drew about 2-2 1/2 Amps even with low power parts. Every part but the power supply came with documentation (Murphy strikes again). Those were the days, when only a hacker new what a hacker did, and the name was a badge of respect and acheivement. I like this board because it owned, operated and frequented by hackers in the traditional sense. We may not be a dying breed, but we are fairly rare birds. Jeff Msg#: 4888 *GENERAL* 07/16/88 19:09:19 From: BRIAN ANDERSON To: ALL Subj: CENTRONICS TO RS-232C I have a Tandy DMP-105 printer with a Centronics(?) 36-position parallel connector on back. I need to hook this to my RS-232C port on the back of my IBM PS/2. Can anyone tell me a good reference to look up how to do this, or give me the info here, if it's not too long? Thanks. Msg#: 4932 *GENERAL* 07/18/88 10:57:14 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: BRIAN ANDERSON Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 4888 (CENTRONICS TO RS-232C) It might be a little overkill, but check out the Circuit Cellar SmartSpooler presented in the April and May '88 issues of BYTE. Msg#: 4889 *GENERAL* 07/16/88 23:49:03 From: THOMAS BARNETT To: ROBERT MCILVAINE (Rcvd) Subj: JETPLOTTER Mac, I had the opportunity this past week to evaluate a program from Insight Software called Jetplotter. While I did not spend a lot of time with it, the program was impressive. It is primarily written to work with Auto Cad but it works well with any cad using HP-GL codes. I compared it with Generic Cadd dotplot by plotting the DPLOT file on the Dotplot program disk. The program emulates the HP7475A plotter and a number of others. Using Dotplot the Dplot file plotted in 43 minutes (non turbo mode), using Jetplotter the same file plotted in 9 minutes 6 sec. This program also keeps track of plot time and displays time into plot. Nice product. On the Deskjet, the plot was of equal quality by both programs. Thomas. Msg#: 4891 *GENERAL* 07/17/88 13:45:53 From: BENNIE BACON To: SYSOP (Rcvd) Subj: LOG-ON PROBLEM I'VE BEEN HAVING A PROBLEM LOGGING ON TO THE CIRCUIT CELLAR BBS. IT STARTS OUT OK BUT WHEN IT STARTS TO DISPLAY 'PRESS P TO PAUSE' IT STOPS AFTER 'PRE'. IF I HIT RETURN IT STARTS TO LOOP THRU THE NAME, LAST NAME MENU. NOTHING I DO SEEMS TO HELP. IT'S BEEN TAKING ABOUT 8 TRIES BEFORE I GET THROUGH. IS THIS A PROBLEM WITH MY SYSTEM (VECTOR 5032 CPM), THE PHONE LINES OR MY LOG-ON ROUTINE. ANY HELP. THANKS, YOUR BBS IS GREAT OTHERWISE. BENNIE BACON, SAVANNAH GA. Msg#: 4892 *GENERAL* 07/17/88 15:57:27 From: ANDY PICKETT To: BENNIE BACON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 4891 (LOG-ON PROBLEM) Bennie: I too have experienced this problem, but today is the first time after using this BBS for well over 1 year. I'm not sure what the problem is - I was thinking the phone lines until I saw your message. Never fear - it doesn't sound like a problem with your system! ---> Andy <--- Msg#: 4895 *GENERAL* 07/18/88 08:06:07 From: MARK BALCH To: BENNIE BACON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 4891 (LOG-ON PROBLEM) DON'T WORRY! Last night, I tried to log-on here and got that strange reaction also. I have been using this BBS for several weeks now and while I do not claim to be an expert on this, I am sure that this BBS's computer 'messes-up' every so often. It cannot be my modem because I have successfully logged-on to this BBS many times and to others in my area. There is a BBS for educators called 'Learning LInk' and my acquaintanc es have told me that sometimes, that BBS also goes 'crazy' on log-on. So don't worry! Every once-in-a-while, BBS control computers and their software go out of control (I think) (possibly due to a bug in the program). Mark. Msg#: 4922 *GENERAL* 07/18/88 10:10:46 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: BENNIE BACON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 4891 (LOG-ON PROBLEM) It's a problem we've had before and it's easy to fix. Once in a while one of the modems goes haywire and needs its power cycled. I've noticed it usually happens when we have thunderstorms in the area, so they're probably related. Everything should be OK now. Msg#: 5130 *GENERAL* 07/23/88 13:39:59 From: BENNIE BACON To: KEN DAVIDSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 4922 (LOG-ON PROBLEM) KEN, GLAD IT'S AN EASY PROBLEM. LAST WEEK WAS THE FIRST TIME I HAD TRIED TO LOG-OWITH THE VECTOR Z80 SYSTEM, AND I AAYS SUBSPECT IT FIRST IF SOMETHING GOES WRONG. THANKS AGAIN......BENNIE Msg#: 4947 *GENERAL* 07/18/88 15:54:43 From: BRIAN WIRTHLIN To: N Subj: GRAPHICS, ETC. Sujoy, Among the new toys here is a Truevision Targa 16 Video board, and I love it. At 2^15 colors and 512x512 pixels it can do some rather nice things. As for pixel manipulation Truevision sells a software package called TIPS which allows image capture from a camera or vcr, and then allows coloring, "airbrushing", geometric construction, antiaialiasing, copy, storage to disk, output to vcr or as broadcast signal, etc. Also available is C source code of general I/O functions. I suppose the real drawback is the board costs $1650 (The Targa 32 is much more). As to Digitizers, are we talking about scanners or digitizing Tablets? Sorry this reply took so long, but what's the point of getting toys if you don't play with them? Truthfully, I simply haven't been on the board for two weeks. If any of these things look interesting leave me a message(general) or give me a ring. Office 314-664-3651 Home 314-352-6130 (Both are direct lines so you shouldn't waste money talking to a recording. Brian Wirthlin Msg#: 4954 *GENERAL* 07/18/88 21:58:52 From: TOM LAKE To: ALL Subj: FOR SALE Wells American AT compatible with 30Mb Seageate drive, IBM VGA adapter and 8513 color monitor, IBM 1.2M & 360K floppy drives, IBM 101 key keyboard, IBM 12Mb memory board with 2Mb installed, 2 IBM serial, 2 IBM parallel ports, IBM game port. Runs at 6, 8, 10, or 12 Mhz. Runs IBM OS/2 just fine. I'm including IBM DOS 3.3 with the machine. Asking $2500 or B/O. Oh yeah, I'll include 2 Mach II joysticks, Microsoft Serial mouse, IBM DOS Tech Ref, IBM AT Guide to Operations, dbXL 1.1 (not diamond release). Call Tom Lake (203) 240-5218 days, (203) 647-7028 eves & weekends. Msg#: 4955 *GENERAL* 07/18/88 22:16:39 From: BRIAN KING To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: BOARD QUALITY What type of testing do production level Circuit Cellar boards go through? Msg#: 5002 *GENERAL* 07/20/88 08:49:55 From: STEVE CIARCIA To: BRIAN KING (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 4955 (BOARD QUALITY) Realize that CCI only markets kits. Therefore, the only test that can be done is a point to point continuity check by the PC mfr (we pay extra to have this done) and a visual inspection in house. Of course, all CCI PC boards are solder masked and silkscreened. -- Steve Msg#: 4961 *GENERAL* 07/19/88 02:44:15 From: STEVE SAMPSON To: ALL Subj: PHONE ENCRYPTION I'm toying with building a voice scrambler. I'd like to do this digitally. The purpose would be to scramble a portable phone (low grade cypher). What I decided on was a simple Exclusive-Or method. This would be the easiest since the same circuit could be used for encryption and decryption. Not being mathmatically inclined (I can't even spell it {smile}) I was wondering what the permutations would be. How many codes would exist with one XOR, two, three, etc. The other things I haven't considered are what frequencies would be generated using this technique. (eg, would 30KHz be generated in a 25KHz bandwidth?) Would the code be decypherable over a radio link? The idea basically is to A/D the audio, send it through an XOR and then D/A the digital audio. The sign bit would be just passed through. The A/D and D/A circuits have been published in Circuit Celler (Vol 1). This part would be quite simple. The radio is FM so the resulting amplitudes would be converted to frequency. Course I think experimenting would be a lot of fun. I was wondering if anyone else has done this type of experimenting? What type of filter does XOR act like? Ideas that correct my misconceptions etc. Msg#: 5003 *GENERAL* 07/20/88 08:52:36 From: STEVE CIARCIA To: STEVE SAMPSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 4961 (PHONE ENCRYPTION) General Instruments makes a set of chips designed to do exactly what you want (cheap too). I don't remember what the numbers were. I got a few samples a while back and thought of doing a project. Perhaps there still will be one in CC INK. --Steve Msg#: 5010 *GENERAL* 07/20/88 12:28:36 From: BOB PADDOCK To: STEVE SAMPSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 4961 (PHONE ENCRYPTION) You can feed the one bit output of a CVSD codec in to a XOR gate and do what you want. Harris has an application note on it for thier 55564/5512 CVSD parts. The problem with the XOR approace is maintaning clock sync between the TX and RX units. Msg#: 5031 *GENERAL* 07/20/88 22:08:36 From: STEVE SAMPSON To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 5003 (PHONE ENCRYPTION) Steve, thanks I'll look into that. The number of chips otherwise, does seem a bit much. Seeing as how you need two of everything... Msg#: 5032 *GENERAL* 07/20/88 22:10:26 From: STEVE SAMPSON To: BOB PADDOCK (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 5010 (PHONE ENCRYPTION) For clock sync - how about a multiplexed signal and a PLL? I'll first try it without it to see if synchronization will be a problem. Msg#: 4996 *GENERAL* 07/20/88 02:43:58 From: ALLAN LONG To: ALL Subj: INFRARED MOTION SENSORS I have recently been playing with one of those infrared (outdoor) light units that turns on two flood lights when it senses motion within a predetermined range ($29.90 from Wal-Mart). I understand that Heathkit sells a similar unit that sends a BSR type signal back down the AC line to operate a BSR device indoors (or wherever else). I was wondering if maybe this would be a good unit for inclusion in the homerun II system? Has anyone had any experience with these units? I am interested in Mean Time Between Failure and reliability. Kinda would also like to know how they work and why they are so darn cheap. Thanks Msg#: 5004 *GENERAL* 07/20/88 09:03:01 From: STEVE CIARCIA To: ALLAN LONG (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 4996 (INFRARED MOTION SENSORS) I've converted a few of those 120 VAC IR motion detectors for use on my HCS and camera system (originally I was using them AC as described in INK #1). They work on 12V real well and the outputs (slightly rewired) are relay contact closures. They are prone to some false triggering but have a very high mtbf. -- Steve Msg#: 5038 *GENERAL* 07/21/88 01:38:24 From: ALLAN LONG To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 5004 (INFRARED MOTION SENSORS) Thanks. Did you find a cheap source for them or did you purchase them from heathkit. Did you use the kind that send back using the bsr signal when triggered? THanks. Allan Msg#: 5047 *GENERAL* 07/21/88 09:58:34 From: STEVE CIARCIA To: ALLAN LONG (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 5038 (INFRARED MOTION SENSORS) I used the regular $29 AC two-light infrared units. Then I pulled out the internal stepdown transformer (120 to 12 vac) and rewired the output relay to be just common and NO connections at the output. -- Steve Msg#: 5160 *GENERAL* 07/25/88 01:25:43 From: ALLAN LONG To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 5047 (INFRARED MOTION SENSORS) Thanks. I noticed one of the brands mentioned that it could be used to control video cameras (surveillance), other lights, etc. I will have to buy another one to gut and play with this could be fun. I would kinda like to know how to get just the infrared units without the lights. Maybe save some bucks, who knows? THanks again. I keep asking but how is HCS II coming? CUL8R Allan Msg#: 5165 *GENERAL* 07/25/88 09:01:16 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: ALLAN LONG (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 5160 (INFRARED MOTION SENSORS) HCS II is not an official project but is something I'm working on in my spare time. As such, it's coming along very slowly. It works great for what I want it to do. I can accomplish most anything that HCS I is capable of and I have plans for adding telephone and X-10 receiver support (the individual code is done, it just needs to be integrated together). The biggest problem, though, is that the user interface is virtually nonexistent. I have to put all the event equations written in my low-level control language into a text file, assemble it into a hex file, then upload it to the controlling computer. I need to write a high-level compiler with automated loading capability before Joe User will be able to use the system. That will take some full-time concentration, something I doubt I'll get for a while. It will still be an INK article when it's to a usable point, though. Msg#: 5166 *GENERAL* 07/25/88 09:02:29 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: ALLAN LONG (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 5160 (INFRARED MOTION SENSORS) By the way, where in the Heathkit catalog did you find a motion sensor that sends out X-10 codes? It find several wireless motion sensors that send out RF to a base alarm unit, but nothing that sends codes onto the power line. Msg#: 5188 *GENERAL* 07/25/88 18:53:21 From: JEFF JENSEN To: ALLAN LONG (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 5160 (INFRARED MOTION SENSORS) Allan, on a trip to the local hardware store yesterday, I saw the IR motion sensors in a "stand alone" package for use inside the house. Just plug it in, plug in a lamp and let it go. Problem was, as I remember, the price isn't much better. I think it was $24-25. Jeff Msg#: 5211 *GENERAL* 07/26/88 08:29:33 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: JEFF JENSEN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 5188 (INFRARED MOTION SENSORS) Most likely that was the RCA unit. Just remember when you look at the price that not too long ago the cheapest IR motion sensor on the market was at least $60-$70 and most of the commercial ones were $150+. Paying $25-$35 for a motion sensor is considered really good. Msg#: 5233 *GENERAL* 07/26/88 20:25:49 From: JEFF JENSEN To: KEN DAVIDSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 5211 (INFRARED MOTION SENSORS) Yes, they have come down in price a bunch. The unit I saw was from RCA. My complaint about its price is they only shave $5 off the price for all the hardware, box and fixtures that come with the external mount system. Do you know what they use for the sensing electronics. I remember a chip from the 1970's with a quad optical sensor built in. It compared each quadrant to the others for uneaven light level changes not due to ambient lighting variations. Is this the same unit or something else? I hung my system for protection while I went on a trip and didn't have time to rip it open. ' ' Jeff Msg#: 5263 *GENERAL* 07/27/88 09:19:27 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: JEFF JENSEN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 5233 (INFRARED MOTION SENSORS) I opened one up when I first got them, but don't remember now what the sensor looked like. It did have a nifty lens arrangement to give it its 180-degree view. I have a hunch that anything left over from the 70s would be more expensive and have less performance than something designed today. I'm sure the whole unit uses new technology. Msg#: 5300 *GENERAL* 07/27/88 19:30:05 From: JEFF JENSEN To: KEN DAVIDSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 5263 (INFRARED MOTION SENSORS) I installed my setup in a rush, and need to go back and do the job right. If I get a chance, I will tear it open and see what makes it tick. . . Jeff Msg#: 5562 *GENERAL* 08/02/88 01:54:04 From: ALLAN LONG To: KEN DAVIDSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 5166 (INFRARED MOTION SENSORS) I am at home now and don't have the catalog so I cant give you a page number but the unit was a double(I think) light witR motion sensing that sent a signal downline (AC) which sounds like x-10 by its description, maybe I am misreading it but the other IR light units were about 20-30 bucks cheaper than this one which was about 60 dollars. If you like I can check further. Let me know. Allan Msg#: 5563 *GENERAL* 08/02/88 01:57:10 From: ALLAN LONG To: JEFF JENSEN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 5188 (INFRARED MOTION SENSORS) Jeff - The local wal-mart has two ir light units. One says that it can be used to control lights, security cameras, etc. In other words they apparently will support detaching the ir unit from the double outside flood light fixture. I guess I will just have to break down and get one to tear apart. I would like to see if there is a way to use this IR sensor to send x-10 code, have to think on that. More as it develops. Msg#: 5564 *GENERAL* 08/02/88 01:59:20 From: ALLAN LONG To: KEN DAVIDSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 5211 (INFRARED MOTION SENSORS) I agree and have decided on one to buy, see previous message. If there is anything useful in manual, pamphlet, etc. I will u/l in text file if you like. I am really thinking that an IR sensing X-10 sending light would be a fair adjunct to HCS. Allan Msg#: 5565 *GENERAL* 08/02/88 02:01:20 From: ALLAN LONG To: JEFF JENSEN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 5233 (INFRARED MOTION SENSORS) I will check. The light unit I was going to get (tommorrow?) says on the box that it can be used to turn off/on security cameras which seems to indicate it may have some useinfo in the box. Will let you know. Allan Msg#: 5578 *GENERAL* 08/02/88 08:10:03 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: ALLAN LONG (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 5562 (INFRARED MOTION SENSORS) Yes, I'd like to find out more about it. If it is real, it could be used in conjunction with X-10's new two-way module and would allow wireless connection of motion sensors to a control computer. Msg#: 5594 *GENERAL* 08/02/88 12:07:45 From: PETER DEAL To: ALLAN LONG (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 4996 (INFRARED MOTION SENSORS) I realize that most of this discussion centered around off the shelf sensors, but Amperex makes the sensors (just the chip) and sells them very cheaply (about $3). I responded to an ad in EDN for the sensors and they sent me a sample, one of those fresnel lenses, and a bunch of app. notes on using the sensor for motion detectors, etc. In case anyone is interested, the address of the place I sent to was: Amperex Electronic Corp., George Washington Highway, Smithfield RI, 02917, (401)-232-0500. Msg#: 5596 *GENERAL* 08/02/88 12:23:56 From: BOB PADDOCK To: KEN DAVIDSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 5166 (INFRARED MOTION SENSORS) Page #24: "Outdoor/Indoor Security Lighting". It says: "sends a unique signal over the electrical wiring in your home. This signal communicates with modules like those on pages 19 and 21." Pages 19 and 21 have all of the X-10 modules. Msg#: 5606 *GENERAL* 08/02/88 17:36:24 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: BOB PADDOCK (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 5596 (INFRARED MOTION SENSORS) Thanks. I'll go home and drag out my catalog. Looks like something we'll have to check into. :-) Msg#: 5616 *GENERAL* 08/02/88 19:11:04 From: JEFF JENSEN To: ALLAN LONG (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 5563 (INFRARED MOTION SENSORS) In an earlier message, Steve or Ken talked about ripping the sensor open and converting it to 12V operation and using the relay inside to drive their home control system. If you did something cheap and dirty like use the relay to trigger a serial bit stream X10 command into the X10 transmitter from issue 3 of CCInk, you could do it. Maybe as cheap as a PROM burned with the command being stepped through several addresses at the proper bit rate. Use just one data line from the PROM and spread the command over several bytes of memory. A counter could produce the sequential addresses for the PROM. . . Jeff Msg#: 5690 *GENERAL* 08/04/88 02:02:16 From: ALLAN LONG To: BOB PADDOCK (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 5596 (INFRARED MOTION SENSORS) Thats it. I will look in my Heathkit Catalog. Maybe we can find more? Msg#: 5813 *GENERAL* 08/07/88 03:48:02 From: EDDIE WHITE To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 5004 (INFRARED MOTION SENSORS) Steve, I have done as you have with the infared motion toys except I used opto isolators (I did away with the whole board). The ones I'm using are just a square box rather than the "Fighting Machine" types. These have a delay of 7 mins, the Fighters have a 15 or 20 min delay. If I may ask about your system, how have you dealt with this delay and avoid having to wave at the detector every so often? Extending the delay with software and looking for a "missing pulse" I guess would work although I haven't tried it. thanks, Eddie Msg#: 5830 *GENERAL* 08/07/88 11:55:10 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: EDDIE WHITE (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 5813 (INFRARED MOTION SENSORS) Any good home control system should be able to accept a contact closure input, then turn a light on and leave it on for "x" minutes after the input has gone away. That way, regardless of whether your sensor stays closed for 10 seconds or 10 minutes, you can still have that light stay on for 20 or 30 (or whatever) minutes after the last motion was sensed. Msg#: 6917 *GENERAL* 08/30/88 02:49:25 From: EDDIE WHITE To: KEN DAVIDSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 5830 (INFRARED MOTION SENSORS) I guess I should have asked the question differently. I'll try again. You have a sensor with a delay of x mins. (we'll assume the delay is in the hcs). If x is too short, then the light could blink if the person in the room does not move enough. If x is too long and the person leaves the room before x expires, then the remainder of the time is left supporting the local utility. I would think that there is either a happy medium and/or a different sensor (from the ones I've been playing with). I was curious about someone else's experiences with the amount of time delay. A number of times I have been staring at a printout and then had to wave the print at the monster to get the lights back on! thanks, Eddie Msg#: 6929 *GENERAL* 08/30/88 08:36:46 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: EDDIE WHITE (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 6917 (INFRARED MOTION SENSORS) That's always a dilemma. I've had pretty good luck with using a delay of around 20 minutes. It really depends on the room you're in and how good the motion sensor in that room is. In my living room, the sensor is very close to where I usually sit and seems to be able to pick up very small movements. If I'm sitting somewhere else in the room, though, the lights will sometimes go off while I'm sitting there. The sensor in my bedroom has a terrible time seeing me when I'm laying in bed watching TV, so I'm used to the lights going off there. I've also experimented with having the system turn off lights as soon as I leave the room. The trouble is it gets real confusing if there is more than one person in the place. It can also be a bit disconcerting to have the lights following you around when you run to the bedroom to get a book and immediately back to the living room. I'd rather support the electric company with an extra 20 minutes of light. Msg#: 4997 *GENERAL* 07/20/88 02:48:09 From: ALLAN LONG To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: IMAGEWISE DIGITIZER Steve - What interface is available to link the imagewise to the ibmpc. What format is the picture stored in? How much disk space does an image of say your front porch take up in PC format? I would like to buy one of these things pre-assembled but need to know a little more about it. Mainly how to control it and use it in a security system. Interface info and image storage requirements would help since that would tell me how practical the thing is for my particular application. Thanks, Looking forward to the next INK. Allan Msg#: 5000 *GENERAL* 07/20/88 08:44:32 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: ALLAN LONG (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 4997 (IMAGEWISE DIGITIZER) Look up Steve's May, June, and July '87 BYTE articles. They contain all the information you should need about the ImageWise system. ImageWise interfaces to any computer with a serial port via a standard RS-232 connection. The host computer sends out two bytes to tell the digitizer what resolution it wants and to begin sending the image. The digitizer sends out one byte per pixel, that byte containing the grey level from 0 to 63. There are also control characters that specify start of frame, start of line, and end of frame. An uncompressed picture at the highest resolution (256x244) is about 62K in size ((256 x 244) + 256 + 2). Msg#: 5037 *GENERAL* 07/21/88 01:36:56 From: ALLAN LONG To: KEN DAVIDSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 5000 (IMAGEWISE DIGITIZER) Thanks, I have all the old bytes back for a few years (84). It looks like if I want to use it as a serious adjunct to camera surveilance I will need a harddisk or tape backup of some kind. After I look this up I may have more questions. Thanks again. Allan Msg#: 4998 *GENERAL* 07/20/88 03:17:58 From: EDDIE WHITE To: ALL Subj: PCB DRILL INDEX Does anyone have a "cheat sheet" or something that has drill index sizes for component leads? I'm mainly trying to mount ic sockets, small bypass caps and 34 and 50 pin "berg" connectors. The company I'm going to try will take my layout disk and build a board with 2 drill sizes included in the basic cost. These are going to be prototype boards, but, I thought I try to get a little more professional than when I etched and drilled by hand (and guessed!). . thanks, Eddie Msg#: 5017 *GENERAL* 07/20/88 14:39:05 From: TAEGAN GODDARD To: ALL Subj: WASHINGTON DC BBS I'm moving to Washington D.C. in a couple of weeks and wanted to know if anyone knoew of any good BBSs in the DC Virginia (Arlington/Fairfax Co) area? I'm especially interested in technical boards such as the Circuit Cellar (although none can really compare) and programmers boards. Anyone out there know? thanks. ...Taegan Msg#: 5029 *GENERAL* 07/20/88 20:08:07 From: BYRON BLAKE To: TAEGAN GODDARD (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 5017 (WASHINGTON DC BBS) Taegan, There are several BBSes in the Wash DC area that carry national conferences on Hard Drives/Mass Storage Devices, 80286/80386, OS2, and other wide ranging topics. You are right, most likely none will compare to CC BBS. These boards (in Washington, DC) are linked into the International Fido Network (a hobbist-public access network). I will forward the phone numbers and baud rates if youre interested. Byron Blake, KA1ILI 1:142/911, 0:142/550 Msg#: 5074 *GENERAL* 07/21/88 20:59:46 From: JACK PERGAL To: TAEGAN GODDARD (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 5017 (WASHINGTON DC BBS) You should get a copy of Mike Focke's DCBBS list. He has over 200 IBM based board's in the list. There are a lot of programming oriented boards and some hardware oriented ones. DC has one of the best local bbs environments in the country, a real bbs'ers paradise. . Jack Msg#: 5078 *GENERAL* 07/22/88 00:04:54 From: TAEGAN GODDARD To: BYRON BLAKE (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 5029 (WASHINGTON DC BBS) Byron, I'd be very interested in those numbers if you wouldn't mind. Thanks much. ...Taegan Msg#: 5079 *GENERAL* 07/22/88 00:05:43 From: TAEGAN GODDARD To: JACK PERGAL (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 5074 (WASHINGTON DC BBS) Thanks for the info Jack. I look forward to DC BBSs.... ...Taegan Msg#: 5100 *GENERAL* 07/22/88 14:31:30 From: BYRON BLAKE To: TAEGAN GODDARD (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 5078 (WASHINGTON DC BBS) Taegan, I take it that you want the Washington, DC and Philly, PA numbers. I'll send them up to you (here) in a few days. Regards, Byron, KA1ILI Opus 1:142/911, 0:142/550 Msg#: 5193 *GENERAL* 07/26/88 00:41:39 From: KEITH TUCHOLSKI To: TAEGAN GODDARD (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 5017 (WASHINGTON DC BBS) there is one board that may intrest u. itis the east coast forth board. the number is in another file, so i will post it tomorrow. Msg#: 5227 *GENERAL* 07/26/88 17:04:20 From: TAEGAN GODDARD To: KEITH TUCHOLSKI (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 5193 (WASHINGTON DC BBS) Thanks Keith, I'll look for the number tommorrow! Msg#: 5021 *GENERAL* 07/20/88 16:09:48 From: EVAN HOLLANDER To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: METAL DETECTORS Steve, I was interested in possibly building a metal detector for locating coins, jewelry, etc... but I have been unable to find a current text on metal detectors. I also compared (visually from the ads ) the Radio Shack VLF discriminator to the unit offered from Heath/Zenith. The units appear to offer approximately the same features but the Heath unit is twice the price! Any clues as to whats going on? Also any suggestions on a construction reference? Thanks, Evan Hollander. Msg#: 5045 *GENERAL* 07/21/88 09:47:32 From: STEVE CIARCIA To: EVAN HOLLANDER (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 5021 (METAL DETECTORS) Sounds like the kind of project found in old copies of Radio Electronics and Popular Electronics. Sorry, don't have any circuits myself. -- STeve Msg#: 5039 *GENERAL* 07/21/88 04:03:10 From: STEVE SAMPSON To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: PHONE ENCRYPTION Is General Instruments still in Hicksville NY? I have a number that's1-516 -933-3000. Is this the right number still? (That is if you know - smile.) I just re-read some stuff in the 87 ARRL handbook and they went on to say 8 KHz is the current digitizing rate for AT&T systems. Real low speed stuff here! Ha. Will call them today and see if we can figure out what I need. Thanks for the pointer. I'll send you a picture... Off the subject but I thought I'd tell you about a color board (E-Z Color - circa 1982). I never could find a graphics board for my H-89 system, so I bought the apple board, squared it off with a saw, and then super-glued the board into a hole cut into an H-89 prototype board. Worked great for a few years then the machine died about a year ago (I'm PC equipped now). After I finished the project two graphics boards appeared! (Double-darn). The software was a nightmare because the 9918 book examples were hard to decode. I managed a C program (Software Toolworks) interfaced to some Z-80 code to draw stuff. Took me about 2 months to plot a dot correctly - Ha. Have fun... Msg#: 5048 *GENERAL* 07/21/88 10:01:47 From: STEVE CIARCIA To: STEVE SAMPSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 5039 (PHONE ENCRYPTION) I don't have a number but they are now in Chandler, Arizona. Glad someone could make use of the 9918. Still have a few hundred around here. -- Steve Msg#: 5049 *GENERAL* 07/21/88 10:46:44 From: MARK LUBRATT To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: THIS BULLETIN BOARD I think this bulletin board is a really great idea. Thank you. Hardware is where the REAL fun is. And now there is a BBS forum for hardware developers. . Msg#: 5050 *GENERAL* 07/21/88 10:48:15 From: JOHN WEIGANDT To: EVERYONE Subj: EKG hi there I am an entry level experimenter.... I read with great interest the hal articles in byte, but what I want to do is build an ekg that will interface with a pc much in the same way that hal will. It seems that the aquisition of millivolt potentials should be a smaller problem than the aquisition of microvolt potentials.... Has anyone a good reference, or any ideas on how I might modify said circuitry. 4 channels would be nice, and of course 60 cycle filtering would be necessary, but really wouldnt need the fft features, because all I really want is a graph of all the summed potentials between two electrodes ie the raw data. which is what an ekg is. will check back if anyone has any ideas.. and steve... thanks for the board Msg#: 5052 *GENERAL* 07/21/88 11:24:06 From: GARREN DAVIS To: KEN DAVIDSON (Rcvd) Subj: BSR I just got my PL513 in the mail.It works great. I have one question though. How many steps can you DIM or BRIGHTEN a lamp module. I can go through my DIM routine about 75 times before I notice any significant dimming of the light. Msg#: 5053 *GENERAL* 07/21/88 11:49:16 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: GARREN DAVIS (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 5052 (BSR) I've counted about 21 or so discrete dim levels that the lamp modules support. The problem you're having is that you're inserting a delay between each DIM command that you're sending out. I remember in my original code, I had to send out about 120 DIM commands to get the light to dim all the way. Once I took out the delay, it worked fine. The three-cycle delay only goes after a complete command has been sent. A complete command includes all repetitions with no gaps between them. Msg#: 5097 *GENERAL* 07/22/88 10:30:39 From: GARREN DAVIS To: KEN DAVIDSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 5053 (BSR) Can you show me a short BASIC routine to DIM a lamp module or does it have to be done in machine language. Msg#: 5102 *GENERAL* 07/22/88 14:58:15 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: GARREN DAVIS (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 5097 (BSR) I assume you're running the IBM PC code. If so, the following should do the trick: . 100 REM Code above this should be like on page 9 of the manual . 110 REM to set up the proper variables and hooks to the X-10 TSR . 120 HOUSE=ASC("A") . 130 UNIT=1 . 140 ACTION=0 : REM Don't do anything besides select the module . 150 CALL X10(HOUSE,UNIT,ACTION) . 160 UNIT=0 : REM Don't select a module, just do action . 170 ACTION=5 . 180 FOR X=1 TO 10 . 190 CALL X10(HOUSE,UNIT,ACTION) . 200 NEXT X The above code should dim the lamp plugged into module A1 ten notches. The way that the BCC52 and BCC180 code is written is you give the machine language routine a number indicating how many dim or bright commands to send. Then the machine language routine takes care of the looping. The way the IBM PC software was written, though, it's up to the user. Msg#: 5103 *GENERAL* 07/22/88 15:00:34 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: GARREN DAVIS (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 5097 (BSR) Of course, if you're not running the IBM PC code and you don't have the BCX/PC manual or sample IBM BASIC program, the last message won't make much sense. I'm assuming you do have the code, though, since it is impossible to control the module directly from BASIC. You always have to go through a machine language drive to get the proper timing. Msg#: 5179 *GENERAL* 07/25/88 11:37:34 From: GARREN DAVIS To: KEN DAVIDSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 5103 (BSR) Thanks. Thats the same way I was doing it except I reset the HOUSE code each time through the loop.I'll try it your way and see how it works. Msg#: 5223 *GENERAL* 07/26/88 10:53:30 From: GARREN DAVIS To: KEN DAVIDSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 5102 (BSR) I tried that program you gave me but I still couldn't get the light to dim.I noticed line 10700 in the BASIC program on the disk was different than the one on page 9 in the manual.I tried both ways but neither worked.Any ideas. Msg#: 5262 *GENERAL* 07/27/88 09:15:27 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: GARREN DAVIS (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 5223 (BSR) Well, it looks like something broke somewhere along the line. I know that it worked at one point in my testing, but it won't work now. I'll have to play with it some more. Msg#: 5278 *GENERAL* 07/27/88 10:52:39 From: GARREN DAVIS To: KEN DAVIDSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 5262 (BSR) When you find the fix could you post it on the bulliten board I don't know what else to do and I don't know anyone else that can help me. Thanks Garren Msg#: 5068 *GENERAL* 07/21/88 17:24:59 From: BYRON BLAKE To: KEN DAVIDSON (Rcvd) Subj: BYTE AND A/D INTERFACES Ken, I received the quoted message (below) from the International Technical conference in Fido Net. I am interested in the interface that Ron refers to. >From: Ron Ginsberg 14-Jul-88 12:19pm >Subject: Analog/Digital Converters > >You might be able to read in analog via your game port. >Several a/d input articles have been written in Ciarcia's >circuit Cellar columns in Byte Magazine. You can look for >volumes of these extracts at book stores. You'll find >Ciarcia provides software info with many of his circuits. If >you decide to use one of his interface boards, kits and A&T >boards, as well as software, is available via two vendors, >Micromint and another. Check BYTE mag for more info. You >might also query his BBS, again info is in BYTE. >Origin: TC-AMS TBBS 2.1 - Minnetonka, MN 6129384799 (282/7) Sincerely, Byron Blake, KA1ILI Msg#: 5085 *GENERAL* 07/22/88 08:41:24 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: BYRON BLAKE (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 5068 (BYTE AND A/D INTERFACES) I don't recall Steve ever having done a BYTE article dealing with the IBM game port, but in issue #4 of Circuit Cellar INK, Ed Nisley gives a detailed description plus all kinds of sample schematics and software for the use of the game port in his Firmware Furnace column. You'll have trouble trying to present the game port with a voltage for it to convert like you'd do with most A/D converters. It is designed to have a variable resistance connected to it. You could probably connect a thermistor to the game port (like was described in issue #2 of INK), but not a true voltage source. Msg#: 5101 *GENERAL* 07/22/88 14:33:16 From: BYRON BLAKE To: KEN DAVIDSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 5085 (BYTE AND A/D INTERFACES) Ken, Thanks for the reply on the Game Port. I'll have to think about the alternatives for a few days, and check out the converters that Bob Paddock (sp?) mentioned. Appreciate your reply. Regards, Byron Blake, KA1ILI Msg#: 5072 *GENERAL* 07/21/88 18:17:52 From: BRIAN JOSEPH To: ALL Subj: TERM. RESISTORS ON FDDS I was having a problem with my FDDs on my XT clone. I switch the two drives and this means that the terminating resistors are on drive B: instead{of drive A:. Does this really make a difference? The drives are working fine now. Thanks......Brian Msg#: 5088 *GENERAL* 07/22/88 08:51:28 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: BRIAN JOSEPH (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 5072 (TERM. RESISTORS ON FDDS) The terminating resistor pack should be installed on the drive at the end of the interface cable. On most IBM systems, that is drive A. While having the terminator on the wrong drive in a 2-drive system might not cause problems, leaving the terminators off altogether will definitely mess you up. If your setup works, then you may not want to mess with it. However, if you fix it now, you may head off future trouble. Msg#: 5076 *GENERAL* 07/21/88 21:55:20 From: JIM BACHSTEIN To: ALL Subj: IBM PC ROM I have an *old* true blue IBM PC. I would like to remove the ROM and replace it with some clone ROM or even place my own programs in ROM. My problem is that I have a EPROM programmer that programs Intel 27xxx series EPROM's and I am sure that the old PC uses a Motorola ROM. My problem is twofold. What Motorola EPROM does the IBM ROM crossover to (if any) and is there a way to adapt my EPROM programmer to program the Motorola EPROM or adapt ab Intel 27xxx chip to work in place of a Motorola chip. Any ideas hints or suggestions would be helpful. Thanx, //Jim// Msg#: 5115 *GENERAL* 07/22/88 23:42:34 From: JIM BACHSTEIN To: BOB PADDOCK (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 5099 (IBM PC ROM) The problem I have is that all I have are IBM part numbers on the ROMs and no Motorola numbers. I am assuming they are Motorola ROMs because Motorola is the only major manufacturer that makes an 8Kx8bit ROM/EPROM in a 24 pin package. I have a catalogue that will crossover Motorola ROMs to EPROMs but I am not sure what Motorola ROM I have. Motorola basically has two tyoes of 8Kx8 EPROMS; the MCM68764 and the MCM68766. One has a chip enable pin the other an output enable pin. Still, the problem gets even bigger because Motorola has discontinued making these two chips. So it would see that an adapter board would be the best bet. The question would still be, what to do with the extra four pins of the 2764? What are your thoughts? Thanx, //Jim// Msg#: 5309 *GENERAL* 07/27/88 23:31:23 From: JIM BACHSTEIN To: BOB PADDOCK (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 5196 (IBM PC ROM) Okay, so CE* and OE* are tied together. Vpp probable should be tied with Vcc. NC to gnd. That leaves PGM*. PGM* according to Intel should be Vih which is between 2.0 and Vcc+1. Should I connect PGM* to Vcc? And I guess the final big question. Will a BIOS written that works in an XT work in a PC? Thanx, //Jim// Msg#: 5417 *GENERAL* 07/29/88 19:26:54 From: JIM BACHSTEIN To: BOB PADDOCK (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 5334 (IBM PC ROM) Thanks for your help. I'll give it a try. Since I do al my developing on an XT clone, I never tried to develop anything for just a PC. I again thank you for your help. Sincerely, //Jim// Msg#: 6837 *GENERAL* 08/28/88 00:52:07 From: JIM BACHSTEIN To: PELLERVO KASKINEN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 5431 (IBM PC ROM) If you can find something, that would be of great help. Sorry I did not get back to you earlier but I have been out of town for the past 26 days. I was able to dig up a couple of 68766 EPROMS but I still have to *convert* my 27xxx EPROM programmer to work with it. Thanx, //Jim// Msg#: 7528 *GENERAL* 09/17/88 07:07:59 From: PELLERVO KASKINEN To: JIM BACHSTEIN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 6837 (IBM PC ROM) I am late with my reply, due to traveling and inability to get this board respond last weekend. Anyway, the ROMs used originally (according to the IBM Technical Reference Manual) were masked. Somehow I have marked that they were similar to TMS 4764. On the other hand, that means pin compatibility with MCM68764 and 68766. During programming ther are differe{ces of course, but the operation is the same. Pins 1 to 8 are address lines A7 to A0. 9 to 11 are data D0 to D2. Common on pin 12 and then D3 through D7 in pins 13 through 17. 18=A11, 19=A10. Then comes the only pin that could mean some difference, but does not actually seem to: pin 20 is an active low enable pin or similar chip select pin. 21 through 23 are A12 - A8. The last pin, 24 is +5 V. There is a slight difference between the 68764 and the 68766. The former one has a chip enable function and therefore uses less standby power than the 68766 that has an output enable function for the same pin #20. Otherwise, everything should be interchangeable. Oh, the 68766 is faster, because the chip is enabled all the time. The programming algorithm is the same for both as far as I can tell. It uses basically 2 millisecond pulses, verifies between the pulses and if the result is correct, then counts 5 more 2 ms pulses. Otherwise, it limits the number to 25 pulses and rejects the part, if it has not accomplished the task by then. The pulses are fed in the pin 20 and are 25 V. I have at work a programmer from Optimal Technology that does program these chips. I also have a serial interface programmer from BP Micro that also handles them. The Optimal Technology unit only works in Intel HEX, while the BP unit can handle also direct hex and direct binary. Due to some more traveling, I am not sure if I can be of more hel any time soon. -- PJK Msg#: 7718 *GENERAL* 09/21/88 19:27:56 From: JEFF JENSEN To: JIM BACHSTEIN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 6837 (IBM PC ROM) Jim, you may be after "the thrill of the chase" in burning an EPROM containing the IBM BIOS. If so, ignore this. Otherwise, I was thumbing through the Computer Shopper and found a company selling these chips, guaranteed IBM brand, and new, for $25 each. If you're interested, call Mentor Electronics, 7560 Tyler Blvd., #E, Mentor, OH, 44060, (216)951-1884. - - Jeff Msg#: 7744 *GENERAL* 09/22/88 11:55:51 From: JIM BACHSTEIN To: JEFF JENSEN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 7718 (IBM PC ROM) No I am not burning in an EPROM that contains an IBM BIOS. Why would I? The computer I am working on is a real IBM PC. What I am trying to do is write my own BIOS routine that more than likely will not work with any software (ie. DOS). In truth, I am trying to make an EPROM that when plugged into the IBM PC (which is why I wanted to know the EPROM type) will continuously run diagnostic routines on the whole system and produce error codes that are easy to understand. I realize that I could probably do this by making an EPROM that plugs into the optional socket on the board, but some clones do not have optional sockets. Therefore I want to be able to replace the BIOS. If you know of a EPROM that is already out on the market let me know. No sense re peating someone elses work. Thanx, //Jim// Msg#: 7753 *GENERAL* 09/22/88 18:43:31 From: JEFF JENSEN To: JIM BACHSTEIN Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 7744 (IBM PC ROM) Sorry, I should have traced the messages back to the beginning. I do know of a company that sells a ROM/PROM/EPROM (don't know which) that plugs into an XT board and runs diagnostics. It is supposed to work down to nearly the gate level at around a 70% accuracy rate. I read an article in Micro Cornucopea on it and the company also advertises in MicroC. If you're interested, I will dredge up the info. - - Jeff Msg#: 7754 *GENERAL* 09/22/88 18:56:36 From: JEFF JENSEN To: JIM BACHSTEIN Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 7744 (IBM PC ROM) Jim, I meant to mention that for 64K IBM PC boards with early BIOS chips, burning a new BIOS can be a real important thing. The early BIOS didn't support hard disks as a boot device and would only recognize 500-some K of RAM. IBM used to sell an upgrade kit (the new BIOS ROM and a chip puller) but they discontinued them several months ago. I thought you might be trying to retrofit an early board. Again, I should have traced the message thread back. - - Jeff Msg#: 7804 *GENERAL* 09/24/88 03:00:41 From: ANDREAS DESSOFF To: JEFF JENSEN Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 7754 (IBM PC ROM) Some might be interested to know that so-called IBM UPGRADE BIOS ROMs (that enable the early PCs to use up to 640k ram and hard disk) have been advertised in Computer Shopper by Mentor Electronics, Inc, (216) 951-1884. Price ranges from $25.00 for one to $1500 for 6 tubes with 96 each. See Computer Shopper October 88 page 345. Msg#: 5081 *GENERAL* 07/22/88 03:55:27 From: CHARLES WARD To: EDWARD WOOD (Rcvd) Subj: ELECTRONIC COMPASS Hi, I've tried backtracking to the original message on the electronic compass. Without success. What magazine was that in, and when. Thankyou. Charles Ward Msg#: 5083 *GENERAL* 07/22/88 06:53:03 From: EDWARD WOOD To: CHARLES WARD (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 5081 (ELECTRONIC COMPASS) The article in question is in the March 1988 issue of Elektor Electronics, a British electronics magazine. I imagine that this magazine is pretty rare in the U.S. so you may have difficulty finding it. Leave your address and I'll send you a copy of the electronic compass article. Msg#: 5084 *GENERAL* 07/22/88 08:37:41 From: MATTHEW LEVINE To: EDWARD WOOD (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 5083 (ELECTRONIC COMPASS) IF YOU WOULDN'T MIND , I'D BE INTERESTED IN THE INFO. LET ME KNOW WHERE TO LEAVE THE QUARTER: MATTHEW D. LEVINE 100-C LAUREL ST HARTFORD CT 06106 - - - THANKS - - - ->->->-MATT-<-<-<- Msg#: 5114 *GENERAL* 07/22/88 21:52:22 From: EDWARD WOOD To: MATTHEW LEVINE (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 5084 (ELECTRONIC COMPASS) The article is in the mail. Enjoy! Msg#: 5120 *GENERAL* 07/23/88 04:35:22 From: CHARLES WARD To: EDWARD WOOD (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 5083 (ELECTRONIC COMPASS) I know you have sent out a lot of copies of that article, so you will have to sooner or later let people reimburse you for postage. My address is- Charles R. Ward Rt. 1 box 42 Wyoming, Iowa 52362 . Your right I've never heard of that magazine. Am looking forward to seeing the article though. Msg#: 5154 *GENERAL* 07/24/88 20:48:40 From: EDWARD WOOD To: CHARLES WARD (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 5120 (ELECTRONIC COMPASS) The article is in the mail. Don't worry about the postage. Msg#: 5082 *GENERAL* 07/22/88 03:58:44 From: CHARLES WARD To: JEFF BACHIOCHI (Rcvd) Subj: PC VIDEO CURE Jeff, thanks for the suggestion about changing slots for my video board. It works fine now, I'll stop at SEARs tommorrow and let the sales people know. Thankyou. Charles Ward Msg#: 5105 *GENERAL* 07/22/88 17:32:27 From: JAY DAVIS To: JEFF BACHIOCHI (Rcvd) Subj: PC-BASED PCBOARDS, BSR RF REMOTE C Steve: 1) First of all, I enjoy the heck out of INK - a job well done 2) I have a *wireless* (RF) remote controller for BSR-control systems, it seems to have intermittent problems with locking-up.... any thoughts?? It will work again if I pop the battery out and in again. 3) I am looking for PCB layout software --- not necessarliy the schmatic capture stuff, and not necassarily something that can do 50,000 layers. Just something for prototypes -- say 20 chips or less, double sided boards max. Although the "full-blown" systems I am still interested in as long as they are reasonably easy to uses and reasonably "bugless". Would you please fill me in on any problems/advantages of anything you use or are familiar with in the least. Thanks much and keep up the excellent work ****** ANY BODY ELSE OUTHERE HAVE ANY INPUT ON THE ABOVE???? PLEASE LAY IT ON ME ****** - Jay Davis Msg#: 5335 *GENERAL* 07/28/88 12:17:17 From: JEFF BACHIOCHI To: JAY DAVIS (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 5105 (PC-BASED PCBOARDS, BSR RF REMOTE C) . Jay, . Does your RF link lock up while transmitting or idle? . As far as PC layout packages goes, I've used smARTWORK, Tango PCB and Schema PCB. Though I prefer Schema, Tango is probably the most cost effective choice if you don't need any fancy stuff. SmARTWORK is OK except it doesn't let you get down to 1 mil which is what you need for things like DB25's or edge connectors on .156 centers. All three have some type of copy protection. This is not unreasonable but can be a hassle if you do work at home as well. . jeff Msg#: 5432 *GENERAL* 07/30/88 11:57:00 From: PELLERVO KASKINEN To: JAY DAVIS (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 5105 (PC-BASED PCBOARDS, BSR RF REMOTE) Regarding your interest to PCB layout programs - there is a comparison article of them in the latest EDN. Apart from those comparisons, my favorite combination right now is OrCad for the Schematic Capture and Tango for the layout work. Sorry to say that I have neither - yet. -- PJK Msg#: 5587 *GENERAL* 08/02/88 09:40:06 From: JAY DAVIS To: JEFF BACHIOCHI (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 5335 (PC-BASED PCBOARDS, BSR RF REMOTE C) The lockup problems seems to occur mainly when the controller is first picked up. I have 2 theories: 1) I *know* I am one of those poor souls that has 10,000+ volts on his body --- I hate to admit it, but I think I have even killed a PC or two that way. 2) I'm not sure about what freqs the RF xmitter operates at, but it seems to be somewhat directional, and sensitive if blocked by, say, a person with 10,000 volts on his body. Also, FYI, the documentation mentions that the metalic, foil-like baking of some home insullation may mess up things. Thanks for the info on the PCB-software. I have some literature on both Tango and Schema --- they seem very similar. I have heard good stuff on Schema. I did mess with smARTWORK several years ago-- at that time I thought it was pretty poor. It did not even give a way to leave any kind of labels or silk-screen on the board (i.e. "R1", etc), but looking at there more recent adds, it looks like they have taken some pretty big steps to improve their product.... appreciate you input! - Jay Msg#: 5589 *GENERAL* 08/02/88 09:42:59 From: JAY DAVIS To: JEFF BACHIOCHI (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 5335 (PC-BASED PCBOARDS, BSR RF REMOTE C) thanks for the info, will see about checking out that magazine. - Jay Msg#: 5597 *GENERAL* 08/02/88 12:26:47 From: PETER DEAL To: JAY DAVIS (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 5105 (PC-BASED PCBOARDS, BSR RF REMOTE C) I found an add for a very cheap pcb layout package in Computer Shopper. The full blown package is $100 and you can get a full function demo package that will do up to a 4"x4" board for $10. I have sent away for a copy of the demo but haven't gotten it yet. The really neat thing about this place though is that if you send them a disk with your design on it they'll build you a board for $1/sq. in. with *no* setup charge ($25 min. order on the board though). I do seem to remember an old comment on this board that said that the boards were not of production quality, but if you only want to prototype... Oh, and that $1/sq. in. was for 2 layer with plated through holes. Anyway the name and address is: EM Enterprises, p.o. box 3228, sierra vista, az 85636, (602) 458-4065. If you give them a call they'll send you a brochure. Msg#: 5665 *GENERAL* 08/03/88 13:54:18 From: JAY DAVIS To: PETER DEAL (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 5597 (PC-BASED PCBOARDS, BSR RF REMOTE C) Thanks again for the info.... BTW... I run a BBS on very similar topics to this board (although to a smaller scale --- Steve Ciarcia is the undisputed Big Daddy of this kind of stuff)... Would be *REAL* glad to have anybody call ------**** BUT PLEASE NOTE ******------- I have only one line at my house DURING THE DAY, THE PHONE IS FOR VOICE ONLY!!! ****** BBS HOURS: 8:00PM TO 5:00am K A N S A S TIME ******* Thanks, Jay Msg#: 5117 *GENERAL* 07/23/88 00:46:40 From: JOHN FORT To: SB180 USERS Subj: MOVZ.Z80-NZCOM If any SB-180 users modify and re-assemble Joe Wright's MOVZ.Z80 to remove the 56K system size limitation, to they can build a NZ-COM system, BE WARNED that linking with SYSLIB V3.6 will make the MOVZ.COM 11 bytes too large, it must not exceed 07FFh. As well as altering the decimal and hex check values, throw away the messages refering to the maximum system size of 56K. This will guarantee the file stays under 800h. Check the address of $MEMRY in the link map. I had a minor hard disk disaster because the call to CODEND wandered off into the bit map and wrote trash across my disk. Cheers, jwf Msg#: 5123 *GENERAL* 07/23/88 09:34:20 From: DOUGLAS MACE To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: COMMENTS Steve, I am a subscriber to your Circuit Cellar Magazine and enjoy it very much----Look forward to each new addition. Logged on this morning and enjoyed the connect. Keep up the good work. Doug Mace, Reading, PA Msg#: 5139 *GENERAL* 07/23/88 21:29:14 From: MICHAEL ARDAI To: ALL USERS Subj: LASER PRINTER PARTS Eli Heffron's in Cambridge has a large quantity of parts from DEC LN01 (aka Xerox 2700) laser printers at very reasonable prices. They want $25 for the entire scanning deck (Polygon, AO modulator with driver, misc lenses and mirrors). They also sell the parts separately. The lasers cost $100 for an approximately 7mw SpectraPhysics tube, and the supplies cost $145 (I think...) Now all I have to figure out is what to do with it. :-} Happy Hacking! Michael L. Ardai (...!sun!sequent!sybil!ardai) Msg#: 5143 *GENERAL* 07/24/88 00:39:42 From: KEN HOWELL To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: INTERFACING Re: topic for INK I would sure like to see an article on cheap, reliable interfaces such as pressure meters, et~rc. You did a "junk box" type of article a while back in BYTE, and I think the time is ripe for another ! --Ken. Msg#: 5217 *GENERAL* 07/26/88 09:27:22 From: STEVE CIARCIA To: KEN HOWELL (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 5143 (INTERFACING) Since I don't have to deal with "pie-in-the-sky clone direction" for BYTE you are likely to see many different kinds of projects in CC INK. -- Steve Msg#: 5801 *GENERAL* 08/06/88 13:37:31 From: KEN HOWELL To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 5217 (INTERFACING) Great! I've always been quite appreciative of your innovative methods of inexpensive interfacing. Not all of us can afford $400 pressure transducers for small hack projects. --Ken. Msg#: 5144 *GENERAL* 07/24/88 00:42:58 From: KEN HOWELL To: ALL USERS Subj: BYTE MAGAZINES I've seen a lot of dire threats for people to throw away their byte magazines, because of what's happened to Steve. If anyone has a collection of pre-1983 byte magazines in reasonably good condition, I may b interested in purchasing them. --Ken. Msg#: 5161 *GENERAL* 07/25/88 01:42:00 From: THOMAS BARNETT To: KEN HOWELL (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 5144 (BYTE MAGAZINES) Ken, I have most of the Byte issues from June 78 on. I'm not ready to trash them, but if you need anything specific I'd be more than happy to send any articles. I think I even have a July '77 issue. Let me know here if I can help. Thomas. Msg#: 5800 *GENERAL* 08/06/88 13:36:29 From: KEN HOWELL To: THOMAS BARNETT (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 5161 (BYTE MAGAZINES) Thanks for the offer. What I'd really like to do is to round out my byte set by purchasing all volumes earlier than 1983. I've seen such offers in the past, and I suppose it's just a matter of finding the right person. --Ken. Msg#: 6331 *GENERAL* 08/16/88 22:39:06 From: THOMAS MCCRYSTAL To: KEN HOWELL (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 5144 (BYTE MAGAZINES) I too, am interested in purchasing old (pre-83 or 84) issues of BYTE. Some of my really old issues are in pretty bad shape, and I'll consider replacing issues that I may already have, if the price is right. TMc Msg#: 5147 *GENERAL* 07/24/88 08:48:18 From: PELLERVO KASKINEN To: HUGH NEWBURY Subj: ECHELON -> ALPHA SYSTEMS Here is the address of Alpha Systems that continues the ZCPR support: . Alpha Systems Corp. . 711 Chatsworth Place . San Jose, CA 95129 (tel. 408-297-5583) . -- PJK Msg#: 5156 *GENERAL* 07/24/88 22:35:05 From: BILL SHEREMETA To: ALL Subj: NEED MAC-DRAW SOFTWARE FOR AT I am looking for a software package for an IBM AT that can do diagrams like the Mac-Draw or Lisa-draw program. Circles, lines, free-text, boxes, and especially object or group-of-objects replication are musts. Does anyone have a recommendation? I would especially like responses from those familiar with the MAC programs. Msg#: 6333 *GENERAL* 08/16/88 22:45:03 From: THOMAS MCCRYSTAL To: BILL SHEREMETA (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 5156 (NEED MAC-DRAW SOFTWARE FOR AT) Bill, With the street price of Mac Plus's on the way down, you may want to consider putting a Mac on your desk next to your AT. Not only will you be gaining access top the right tool for the job, but you can expand your tools with programs like Adobe Illustrator (what an incredibly NEAT!!! program!). Of course, you will experience the hazards of dealing with two cultures at the same time! (I use a Mac during the day, and an XT Turbo at night and for consulting. What brainlock it breeds.) TMc Msg#: 7435 *GENERAL* 09/13/88 21:44:40 From: BILL SHEREMETA To: THOMAS MCCRYSTAL Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 6333 (NEED MAC-DRAW SOFTWARE FOR AT) Thank you for the information! But what does a MAC II cost? I have seen an article in Computer Shopper stating that refurbished LISAs with 5MB hard drive can be purchased from Sun Remarketing for $995. Msg#: 5157 *GENERAL* 07/25/88 00:38:44 From: VINTON MOORE To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: INFRARED REMOTE/COMPUTER CONTROL All the audio and video gadgets I buy these days have infrared remote control capability, and I *USE* it. However, I haven't seen much for sophisticated computer control for devices with infrared receivers. While the Master Controller could probably be modified with a slight software change to be easily controllable through the RS-232, there's a problem: Many of the functions on remote-controlled devices are command toggles -- there is no "On" function and "Off" function, but a power toggle function. This makes computer control difficult, because remote controls could change the state of a device behind the computer's "back." Either all control would have to be through the computer, or the computer would have to have some other way to know the state of the devices it is trying to control. Direct wiring is a bit impractical. Another possibility would be a "simple" receiver system like the one you presented in the Feb. '87 Byte, through which a person could request the computer to send various commands. This seems a bit messy. The solution I'd prefer would be a receiver that could (at a distance) make sense out of the signals sent by several different remotes, so the computer could "mirror" the state of the devices it is controlling. I don't know, though, how hard this is, given the different frequences and schemes of transmission. The upshot is that I'm wondering if you were thinking of something like this for a future Ink. article. I fear my specialty is more in the software area, and while I could put something together if I had the design laid out for me, I'm not going to put THIS together from scratch. Msg#: 5219 *GENERAL* 07/26/88 09:43:56 From: STEVE CIARCIA To: VINTON MOORE (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 5157 (INFRARED REMOTE/COMPUTER CONTROL) This is a subject we have discussed and will perhaps do as a CC INK project. Stay tuned. -- Steve Msg#: 5181 *GENERAL* 07/25/88 13:01:17 From: RON WILSON To: ALL Subj: VIDEO AND AMIGA I saw on a PBS program this past weekend (Computer Cronicles) something for the Amiga called the "Video Toaster" This device is some kind of a synchronizer and special effects generator. Unfortunately, I missed the begining of the show and they didn't repeat the name of the manufacturer. Does any one know who makes the Video Toaster? Thanks in advance. - Ron Msg#: 5312 *GENERAL* 07/28/88 00:03:56 From: JONATHAN STOTT To: RON WILSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 5181 (VIDEO AND AMIGA) The VideoToaster is made by NewTek. Before you go out and by one, there are a few things you should know. 1) It fits into the A2000's video slot. i.e. no 500's/1000's 2) It is not out yet. 3) The price won't be cheap. 4) Finally, what it does. It is a genlock/special effect hardware interface to let the user overlay video images onto a pre-existing video source (including static and a plain black screen if you want just the Amiga/Toaster graphics. That covers the major points and the limits of what I know. Any more questions and I'll do what I can to help. -Jonathan Msg#: 5375 *GENERAL* 07/29/88 09:24:07 From: RON WILSON To: JONATHAN STOTT (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 5312 (VIDEO AND AMIGA) Thanks. The person on the program said the cost would be about $1000 (a very good deal compared to the typical $10,000 unit that only does text - yes, I am aware of $400 to $600 units that do text - I have one - but even if I did modify it to do graphics, it still couldn't do even a tenth of what even a lowly VIC-20 can do. I would be willing to buy a Beta test version if there is anyway to do so. Msg#: 5407 *GENERAL* 07/29/88 17:15:56 From: JONATHAN STOTT To: RON WILSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 5375 (VIDEO AND AMIGA) Forewarned is forearmed and all that. And your right, it DOES do some incredible stuff! -Jonathan Msg#: 5470 *GENERAL* 07/31/88 09:47:10 From: ROB KELLY To: RON WILSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 5181 (VIDEO AND AMIGA) Ron, I found the phone # for New Tek in INFO magazine, (amiga specific). they are in Topeka, KS 913-354-1146 & 1-800-843-8934. They also are advertising a color digitizer for $199. It dithers to give up to 100,000 apparent colors, it uses IFF file format, all Amiga resolutions(320x200, 320x400,640x200,640x400) -- at least thats what the ad says. I hope this helps. ----- rob ------ Msg#: 5186 *GENERAL* 07/25/88 17:40:43 From: ALEXANDER SCHNEIDER To: ALL Subj: FLASHES What makes photographic flash units emit the high-pitched whine during charging? Alex Msg#: 5197 *GENERAL* 07/26/88 06:48:30 From: BOB PADDOCK To: ALEXANDER SCHNEIDER (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 5186 (FLASHES) There is usualy a oscolator driving a small transformer, the transformer charges up a high voltage cap. When the cap is discharged it eignightes the xenon gas in the flash tube. What you hear is either the oscolator directly (not likely) or the transformer windings vibrating. Msg#: 5234 *GENERAL* 07/26/88 21:11:58 From: ALEXANDER SCHNEIDER To: BOB PADDOCK (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 5197 (FLASHES) Is the voltage rectified somehow before the cap, it must be, if so, how? Alex Msg#: 5251 *GENERAL* 07/27/88 07:04:29 From: BOB PADDOCK To: ALEXANDER SCHNEIDER (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 5234 (FLASHES) I never traced the circuit out completely, but I beleive it had one diode on the output of the transformer, that rectified the voltage before charging the cap. Msg#: 5267 *GENERAL* 07/27/88 09:30:24 From: RON WILSON To: ALEXANDER SCHNEIDER (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 5186 (FLASHES) I build one once. since the voltage is only about 500, a diode was what I used. (The ignition circuit gives a brief pulse of about 4000 - 10,000 volts and doesn't really need to be DC as the actual flash current only needs to be about 300 to 600 volts - once ignited) Msg#: 5291 *GENERAL* 07/27/88 17:14:18 From: ALEXANDER SCHNEIDER To: BOB PADDOCK (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 5251 (FLASHES) What makes the pitch go up? Alex Msg#: 5294 *GENERAL* 07/27/88 17:18:20 From: ALEXANDER SCHNEIDER To: RON WILSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 5267 (FLASHES) What makes the whine increase in frequency? Where does the brief pulse of 4000-10,000 come from if the voltage is only 500? Alex Msg#: 5333 *GENERAL* 07/28/88 12:07:26 From: BOB PADDOCK To: ALEXANDER SCHNEIDER (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 5291 (FLASHES) I'am not realy sure of why the pich goes up; I'll speculate that it is because as the capacitor charges up it present less of a load to the transformer, so the windings don't vibrate as much. [Probably dosn't work that way, but I can't think of any other reason right now?] This months issue (Aug.) of Moderen Electronics has a section on xenon strobes by Forest Mimmis III (Spelling?), complete with scematics. Msg#: 5372 *GENERAL* 07/29/88 09:14:58 From: RON WILSON To: ALEXANDER SCHNEIDER (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 5294 (FLASHES) It does have some thing to do with the load presented by the capacitor on the entire oscillator/transformer circuit - as the load on the transformer decreases, its ressonent (sp?) frequency increases (apparently the transformer somehow acts like a voltage or current controled inductor). The 4000 to 10,000 volt ignition burst comes from another transfromer that "borrows" a tiny amount of the 500 volt "power charge" (the trigger circuit briefly "switches on" this extra transformer) Msg#: 5448 *GENERAL* 07/30/88 15:02:38 From: ALEXANDER SCHNEIDER To: BOB PADDOCK (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 5333 (FLASHES) Thanks, I'll try to find an issue. Alex Msg#: 5449 *GENERAL* 07/30/88 15:04:03 From: ALEXANDER SCHNEIDER To: RON WILSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 5372 (FLASHES) So the first transformer charges the capacitor, and then when the trigger goes, the cap is released into the transformer, which fires the flash. That sounds reasonable. Alex Msg#: 5478 *GENERAL* 07/31/88 12:44:49 From: PELLERVO KASKINEN To: ALEXANDER SCHNEIDER (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 5186 (FLASHES) You already have several answers to your question, but I could not resist the temptation. The whining indeed comes from the transformer of the oscillator. The oscillator is VERY simple, getting its feedback directly from the transformer to the transistor base. Therefore the changes in the transformer inductance (or coupling through of the secondary capacitance) affects the frequency. There are actually two transformers, the first one transfers the power from a low voltage DC (battery) to a 300 or 400 V AC, then through a diode to the electrolytic capacitor as high voltage DC. A part of this is taken through a resistor network to the trigger circuit, where at first a small high voltage capacitor is charged to several tens of volta and another part goes down to a few volts to be used through the camera sync contacts to trigger something that discharges the small capacitor into the primary of the second, small transformer. This transformer produces a very high voltage,short spike to a terminal attached to the OUTSIDE of the flash tube. There it can not really discharge anywhere, but the effect right throuh the glaas wall of the tube causes the main charge path to form (by ionization) between the two electrodes at the ends that are attached to the 350 V DC. I hope this explained everything, because really that is all there is in a small flash unit. -- PJK Msg#: 5933 *GENERAL* 08/09/88 14:21:46 From: ALEXANDER SCHNEIDER To: PELLERVO KASKINEN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 5478 (FLASHES) Oh, thank you for the detailed explanation. Alex Msg#: 5194 *GENERAL* 07/26/88 01:29:08 From: THOMAS BARNETT To: JEFF JENSEN (Rcvd) Subj: EARLY MICRO'S Jeff, I still have most of those early articles on the "Elf" and some early designs on the 8080. I started by building the Dyna-Micro from a May 1976 RE article. I had opted to use the 8080 because of the way Intel designed the waite input, it was easy to hardware single step this MPU. Interesting enough they have not really changed that feature the 8088 and 8086 use the waite state structure. I had thought the early excitement of those days had disappeared, but I think that Circuit Cellar Ink has shown a rebirth of those days when we tried different ways to improve on the early "wheels" of micro technology. I'm not likely to invest in a 80386 to play with (smoke that one and you'd cry) but working with its older brother is still a lot of fun. Thomas. Msg#: 5231 *GENERAL* 07/26/88 20:17:48 From: JEFF JENSEN To: THOMAS BARNETT (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 5194 (EARLY MICRO'S) Thomas, one of the things that intrigued me in the early days (and even now) is the FM (magic) of digital electronics. You can study the physics and Boolean logic, etc. as long as you want, but nothing beats the thrill of building a circuit out of non-moving parts, applying the juice and having it REALLY WORK! MAGIC! It is as close as a miracle as I will probably get. Whats more, you can recreate the magic in each new project. In the early days, the magic was unobscurred by layers of BIOS, DOS, shells, TSRs, applications, interprocess communications, etc. I think software is its own magic, but a different flavor (they're both white magic to me--the good stuff). I have visions of the Circuit Cellar that fit nicely with my image of electronics. How about Steve, Ken and company in tall, pointy hats with stars and half moons all over? Imagine the next CC cover article with smoke swirling around (oops, Vcc goes there, not here). Anyway, I agree. I worked with friend on a hardware debugging aid for Z80 systems for reasons similar to your 8080 project. It clipped onto a Z80 and forced it to single step. An advanced version even interrupted the Z80 and dumped its register contents to the debugger at the end of each instruction cycle. We submitted the project as a magazine article, but it never made it to print. Jeff Msg#: 5207 *GENERAL* 07/26/88 08:08:28 From: CRAIG TRADER To: ALL Subj: COMPAQ PORTABLE MODEL III The Compaq Portable Model III has an external display port that can be toggled to/from by press CTRL-ALT-< or CTRL-ALT-> under MS-DOS. Does anybody know how to toggle this directly (without using MS-DOS?) We're running the Pick operating system and the MS-DOS calls aren't available. It is possible to peek/poke memory locations and read/write IO addresses, but we don't know the addresses on the Compaq display circuitry. Any help with this would be greatly appreciated. Craig Trader / Publishers Professional Software (703) 243-5418 Msg#: 5275 *GENERAL* 07/27/88 10:22:38 From: DAVE EVERS To: ALL Subj: PC BOARD LAYOUT SOFTWARE I've been playing around recently with PC board layout software, namely PCPRO from Advanced Micro Systems in Florida. This package sells for about $250 and appears to handle everything I need plus more ( 1 mil resolution, 4 layers, definable pads, etc). One thing that seems to stand out for this product is that it supports Gerber output to a file or port at no extra cost. Most other PCB CAD systems I have seen charge more for the Gerber option than PCPRO itself! For anyone looking for a good entry level package, I would highly recommend this one. They have a demo program that I could upload (I found it on another BBS and it is what turned me on to it) if anyone wants. Currently, I am working on a companion software package that will read the PCPRO PC board data file and plot it out at 300 dpi on an HP Laserjet Series II. So far, I'm having pretty good luck with it. If anyone here is using PCPRO and would like to work with a beta copy of this program, drop me a note here and I'll either upload it or send it to you. If I get this thing working reasonably well, I thought I'd try marketing it commercially for some ridiculously low price of $50 or so (ridiculous considering similar programs sell for $500 and up!). A side thought is that a more generic product would be something that would take a standard Gerber file and plot it to a laser printer. I understand that the Gerber syntax is basically an X,Y coordinate and a code for the element (line, circle, square, etc). and that it is covered by an RS-xxx specification. Does anyone have a copy of this spec or know how to get one? If there is enough interest in this, I would be glad to upload the final version of this program here for the use of all Circuit Cellar BBS users (still retaining copyright and perhaps marketing it separately). Please drop me a note here it you think this has any potential. Msg#: 5885 *GENERAL* 08/08/88 18:20:22 From: LAWRENCE BEARSE To: DAVE EVERS (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 5275 (PC BOARD LAYOUT SOFTWARE) Dave, the Gerber syntax that you are referring to; is that something to do with Gerber Scientific ? If so, I work at GGT and amy be able to help, but would maybe need more info on what you need. Larry Msg#: 5908 *GENERAL* 08/09/88 09:32:48 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: LAWRENCE BEARSE (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 5885 (PC BOARD LAYOUT SOFTWARE) I surprised you aren't familiar with how famous the Gerber format is. Since GSI was one of the first on the market with photoplotters, their plotter file format has become an industry standard. Any good layout program supports Gerber files. (My father works at GSI, by the way.) Msg#: 5930 *GENERAL* 08/09/88 12:29:04 From: DAVE EVERS To: LAWRENCE BEARSE (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 5885 (PC BOARD LAYOUT SOFTWARE) Larry, I am a novice at this and have only heard it referred to as " "Gerber output". I would guess that if Gerber Scientific is the originator of the Gerber photoplotters this would be the case. I have done a bit of investigating and it appears that the Gerber format is similar in concept to things like HP-GL in that it specifies plotting coordinates and styles. I would appreciate anything you could dig up on this subject. Msg#: 6830 *GENERAL* 08/27/88 22:23:51 From: VIC FRAENCKEL To: DAVE EVERS (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 5275 (PC BOARD LAYOUT SOFTWARE) dave it seems to me that HP-GL is the plotter language to support as most of the plotter hardware for pc land all handle HP-GL. is there an overpowerin g reason to produce your s/w supporting Gerber?? i have requested a copy of your beta s/w in another message - to try on a HP deskjet. do you have an address for AMS. i am looking for a pcb layout package and might give them a try. also - any further thoughts on analogic?? vic fraenckel Msg#: 6890 *GENERAL* 08/29/88 12:15:53 From: DAVE EVERS To: VIC FRAENCKEL (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 6830 (PC BOARD LAYOUT SOFTWARE) The main reason for going after the Gerber format is that most of the photoplotting services accept files in this format to be directly photo- plotted. Using HP-GL or a similar format requires that the layout be pen-plotted (usually at a multiple size - 2X or 4X to get good resolution) and then reduced using camera facilities. I myself would prefer (given that I would have to go to an outside source for final artwork anyway) to simply provide a file that could be plotted at final resolution using a laser or vector photoplotter at a service center. The big drawback currently is that most of the major layout packages don't include Gerber output as standard - you have to pay as much as $500 to $1000 extra just to get this file format. That's one of the reasons I like PCPRO from AMS so much - it includes Gerber output as part of the standard price ($295). I must admit I'm still intimidated by all the options and parameters required to send off a file to a photoplotter (apertures, etc) so I haven't taken advantage of it yet; but I intend to if I get any farther along in this PC layout area. I don't have AMS' address or phone number handy right now - I'll try to get ahold of it by the next time I call. As for Analogic, I'm tempted to try him out again to see if the quality problems I experienced were just a fluke. However, I like the PCPRO package so much that I hate to go back to the PC-EDIT package to re-layout a board just to try him out again! Msg#: 5277 *GENERAL* 07/27/88 10:46:10 From: DAVE EVERS To: ALL Subj: MAKING PC BOARDS As an extension to my previous message, I thought I'd pass on some experiences I ahve had in making my own prototype PC boards using the output from PCPRO. I have been plotting out the board at 1.54 times (because that is the largest size that will still fit on an 8 1/2 x 11 sheet) and sending it to the local printing shop to be reduced to 65% and turned into a negative. Then I have been using Kepro photosensitized PC boards using Dry Film photoresist for the board stock. This stuff is great. It comes laminated to the board (one or two sides) and you simply contact expose it to ultraviolet light. I had trouble getting consistent exposures using artificial light and found that best results came from exposing each side to direct sunlight for about 30 sec - 1 min. The nice thing about this product is that the exposed portion turns a darker color (sort of a dark blue green from the normal color of green) so that you can see a latent image of your design! Also, the developing process uses a solution of 1 teaspoon washing soda (sodium carbonate?) available for about 1$ a pound to a quart of water. About 30 seconds of immersion in this solution causes the unexposed portion to "slime up" and wash away, leaving the resist on the board. My favorite aspect of this dry film process is that it really holds up to etchant. I have been used to carefully monitoring the etching process because usually the resist begins to dissolve at about the point that 10% of the copper remained on the board. Not this stuff! I've left the board in etchant for over and hour and a half and my only problem has been slight undercutting of the traces. The resist really holds up. When you have the board completely etched, you simply return it to the washing soda developing solution (I usually add a little more at this point to concentrate it) and after about 10 minutes the rest of the resist is removed and you have a super-good quality board. I bought my photosensitized boards from Newark, but they are pretty expensive. A 7" x 12" board, 1 oz. on 2 sides, costs about $18 each in packs of 6. 4 x 6 boards are quite a bit cheaper (about $6 each in 6's) but my board was 4.25 x 6 so I was stuck. If you need a lot, they have packs of 12 x 12 boards (5 to a pack) for about the same price ($120) or even bulk packs of 12 x 24 for 12 at about $200. Not real cheap, but fairly reasonable if you expect to do any serious work. I have a question that maybe some CC Ink reader might know about. The only problem I have now is making double sided boards. Does anyone know the chemistry and process for plating thru holes on a double sided board. I know that most commercial shops drill the board first, the}in mask off all but the pads and use an electoplating process. Is it feasable to do this at home? What are the solutions and how exactly does the electro- plating process work. Currently, I've been simply soldering wires in all of the vias and soldering IC's and components to both sides of the board, but this is a lot of work and prevents much re-work later. If it is remotely possible to try this out without polluting my neighborhood and doubling my power bill, I'd like to know how to do it. Msg#: 5381 *GENERAL* 07/29/88 09:37:58 From: RON WILSON To: DAVE EVERS (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 5277 (MAKING PC BOARDS) Check out Edmond Scientific for electroplating stuff (the "industrial" catalog - NOT the "home" catalog) - I think they still sell stuff like that. As for masking the board, maybe you could use silk screening film - just apply the film to the board, then cut away at the places you want to plate. Good luck. Msg#: 5398 *GENERAL* 07/29/88 11:11:49 From: DAVE EVERS To: RON WILSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 5381 (MAKING PC BOARDS) Thanks for the tip - I had heard of Edmund for home and hobby stuff but I didn't realize they had an industrial catalog. I'll hunt one up. Msg#: 5402 *GENERAL* 07/29/88 16:16:42 From: VIC FRAENCKEL To: DAVE EVERS (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 5277 (MAKING PC BOARDS) dave: i was intrigued at the concept of using the hp laser printer to do the pc board thing. i am about to buy a hp deskjet printer - can't afford the big-gun laser printer. would your software possible work on the deskjet? i believe it does hp laser emulation. any words of wisdom will be appreciated. vic fraenckel Msg#: 5468 *GENERAL* 07/31/88 02:01:18 From: DAVE EVERS To: VIC FRAENCKEL (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 5402 (MAKING PC BOARDS) Quite frankly, I don't know whether the Deskjet would work in this application. My software is using the Raster Graphics mode of the LaserJet printer, which is sort of an "interpreted" form of graphics. All lines from my software (and pads too, in a fast draft mode that makes the pads appear as squares (lines of equal width and length)) are evidently stored in the Laserjet until the page begins to print, at which time the printer expands the lines to the appropriate bit- mapped dots. It is possible in this mode to overrun the capability of the printer to interpret lines as fast as the paper must move through the machine, and you then get an "Error 21"; which means you can never print that page on the machine! Given the complexity of what is going on inside the Laserjet for decoding this kind of graphics, I wonder whether the cheaper Deskjet could offer the same capability. However, should you buy a Deskjet, let me know and I would be happy to provide you a copy of the program and some test data to see if it would indeed work. An interesting possibility... Msg#: 5477 *GENERAL* 07/31/88 12:32:54 From: PELLERVO KASKINEN To: DAVE EVERS (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 5277 (MAKING PC BOARDS) Looks like you already got some answer about a source for the plating material. You should realize that after drilling and before etching you have a good chance of making the electroplating - there is ample connection of electricity to all holes. However, you need to have some electroless copper or nickel layer established at first and you need to keep the board or the fluid moving (through the holes). The actual growing of useful layer takes place after the initial electroless layer has been established. Different solutions. As to the photoresist - you would actually need your own coating facility due to this order of work. At first time you make the hole pattern somehow, drill them, plate them, protect them and then the traces exposure plus etching. Otherwise, the resist that you descibed resembles something made by a German company in the late 60's, except that it was purple. There is another way of doing the "plating". There is a company that makes very thin wall eyelets that you can rivet into the holes that you can not solder on both sides. These same eyelets are used for printed circuit board repair work. You can get them from Pace for example. -- PJK Oh, a second thought - I am glad you are pleased with the layout software package. Maybe that supplier is not as bad as my experience (another product from them) has made me to believe... Msg#: 5479 *GENERAL* 07/31/88 13:28:56 From: VIC FRAENCKEL To: DAVE EVERS (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 5468 (MAKING PC BOARDS) dave: thanks for the feedback - i will be buyong the deskjet in the next couple of weeks and when it is up and running i'll get back to you. again - thanks for the reply vic fraenckel Msg#: 5580 *GENERAL* 08/02/88 08:49:57 From: RON WILSON To: DAVE EVERS (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 5398 (MAKING PC BOARDS) To the best of my knowledge, the DeskJet is %100 compatble with the LaserJet (SOFTWARE compatable - they don't use the same font carts) Msg#: 5297 *GENERAL* 07/27/88 18:07:40 From: BYRON BLAKE To: ALL Subj: ANALOG/DIGITAL 5C060? I was reading a text file in AD.DOC [File Area: IBM Section] w/ regards to analog/digital converters. The file made mention of the 5C060 (successive approximation register, produces 8 bit binary value). I am not familar with this animal. Who manufactures this IC and would it be IBM DOS 3.3 /XT 8bit bus compatible? Thanks In Advance Byron Blake, KA1ILI Msg#: 5336 *GENERAL* 07/28/88 12:24:03 From: BOB PADDOCK To: BYRON BLAKE (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 5297 (ANALOG/DIGITAL 5C060?) That file was meant to be an example of how to do a successive approximatio n register using an Intel PLD (5C060), which is the equivalent to the Altera EP600 PLD. It has nothing to do with the IBM DOS in any way. PLD's are Programable Logic Devices, which means you can design your own IC. By writting the correct equations, or state map{, you can make a devices that takes up less board space than using re{urlar TTL or CMOS (74xxx, 4xxx) parts. A functional equivalent of the 5C060 programed to be a SAR would be the 74C905. Msg#: 5348 *GENERAL* 07/28/88 19:41:08 From: BYRON BLAKE To: BOB PADDOCK (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 5336 (ANALOG/DIGITAL 5C060?) Dear Bob, Thank you for your reply regarding my 5C060 question. Byron Msg#: 5305 *GENERAL* 07/27/88 21:13:50 From: THOMAS BARNETT To: JEFF JENSEN (Rcvd) Subj: EARLY MICRO'S We must have lived on the same side of the tracks! I tried the article writing business once. A few of my friends and myself were asked by a local boy scout troop to construct a multiple race track and timing project for use in their annual Pine Wood Derby. This was a few years ago when the tide of the Z80 was ebbing and the 8088 was rising. It took four months to complete the project. Two finish carpenters built the hardwood track, a commerical artist did the painting and art work, and I built the timer, wrote the article and sent it off. I guess Z80 race track timers were not in sson, or maybe it was grammer, it could have geen grandma too. Whatever the reason the only file it got published in was thirteen. Thus ended my career as a technical writer. Anyway it was a fun project that a lot of good kids benefited from. As to CC INK I think you have a great idea. Steve can be cast as"MERLIN THE MAGNIFICENT", Ken as "KING RICHARD" and Ed Nisley as "SIR LANCELOT" (sorry Ed no Guinevere). The rest of the staff can sit about the "ROUND TABLE" while thunder bolts spew forth from the end of Steve's finger bringing to light new and inovative projects! I hope these guys have a sense of humor. With that I'm off to Disneyland for the next five days. Thomas. Msg#: 5320 *GENERAL* 07/28/88 09:27:29 From: STEVE CIARCIA To: THOMAS BARNETT (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 5305 (EARLY MICRO'S) After reading the Ballistic dynamics of plastic soda bottles, you have to ask if we have a sense of humor? :-) Just make sure you are subscribing to CC INK for the April '89 issue!!! --Steve Msg#: 5338 *GENERAL* 07/28/88 12:25:35 From: BOB PADDOCK To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 5320 (EARLY MICRO'S) What's the dead line for submiting some thing for the April '89 issue? Maybe I'll have a functioning Anti-Gravity device by then........ Msg#: 5347 *GENERAL* 07/28/88 19:17:03 From: JEFF JENSEN To: THOMAS BARNETT (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 5305 (EARLY MICRO'S) Although it may blow my mental picture, I would give my (fill in the blank) to meet these guys, wander through their offices and shops and shoot the breaze or bottle rockets. It is not fair to idolize someone, but I have followed the Circuit Celler gang as a closet groupie since the early 1980s and imagined how great it must be to work there. I hope that a gathering of CC folks and bulletin board users does come together. I've got an airline coupon good until Feb. 1989........ . . Jeff Msg#: 5392 *GENERAL* 07/29/88 10:46:19 From: STEVE CIARCIA To: JEFF JENSEN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 5347 (EARLY MICRO'S) If we can organize this sometime this fall in the Northeast we will definately be ther but spring is OK too. Is there a computer show in Boston that we can perhaps also include? -- Steve Msg#: 5393 *GENERAL* 07/29/88 10:49:29 From: STEVE CIARCIA To: BOB PADDOCK (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 5338 (EARLY MICRO'S) Ask Curt, but I think anytime befor Xmas would be OK. We a planning such things as the Circuit Cellar computer drop test reviews and golden slag heap (heat test) awards tentatively planned. -- Steve Msg#: 5395 *GENERAL* 07/29/88 10:58:12 From: JEFF BACHIOCHI To: JEFF JENSEN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 5347 (EARLY MICRO'S) . Jeff, . Next time you go to the CIRCUS you'll have a good idea of what it's like here. We are talking THREE RING! There is no way one could follow all the things happening at the Circus Cellar oops, Circuit Cellar. . jeff Msg#: 5405 *GENERAL* 07/29/88 16:37:00 From: BOB PADDOCK To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 5393 (EARLY MICRO'S) Did Curt F. replace Harv W.? Msg#: 5409 *GENERAL* 07/29/88 18:05:51 From: JEFF JENSEN To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 5392 (EARLY MICRO'S) I haven't seen any promotional liturature on the annual show in Boston, but I remember it and the West Coast Faire are about six months apart. The PC Expo is generally sometime in the spring, but in New York City. Another thought, although a bunch of work for someone, would be a visit to some places in the Boston area. I can think of the Computer Museum, and a raft of vendors on the Route. Coordinating that from anywhere but the Boston area would be tough, Is there anyone from Woburn, Billerica or such that wants to look into this? I'll also scout around for some early info on Boston events for the spring. Maybe a day or to at MIT..... . . Jeff Msg#: 5410 *GENERAL* 07/29/88 18:14:22 From: JEFF JENSEN To: JEFF BACHIOCHI (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 5395 (EARLY MICRO'S) Ladies and gentlemen, in ring number one, we have The Amazing Juggling Techies, working on twenty-seven articles/projects at once. In ring number two, smoke, mirrors and foofoo dust will astonish and astound you. And in ring number three, Larry, Moe and Curly will launch empty Pepsi bottles at low-flying crows. I work at a branch office of the circus, too, except sometimes we confuse it for the zoo. Funny how far some of these conversation threads wander. . . Jeff Msg#: 5471 *GENERAL* 07/31/88 10:00:36 From: TIM MCDONOUGH To: JEFF JENSEN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 5409 (EARLY MICRO'S) How about a tour of the MIT Robotics Lab? Ever read the book "The Tomorrow Makers"? Tim McDonough Msg#: 5521 *GENERAL* 08/01/88 09:15:44 From: STEVE CIARCIA To: BOB PADDOCK (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 5405 (EARLY MICRO'S) Harv will still be doing things for the magazine. --Steve Msg#: 5545 *GENERAL* 08/01/88 18:49:58 From: JEFF JENSEN To: TIM MCDONOUGH (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 5471 (EARLY MICRO'S) Tim, it sounds like a blast. They also have some fun stuff on voice recognition (excuse me, that should read SPEECH recognition) and AI/expert systems. I haven't read the book, though. . . Jeff Msg#: 5554 *GENERAL* 08/02/88 00:05:27 From: THOMAS BARNETT To: JEFF JENSEN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 5410 (EARLY MICRO'S) I wonder what happened to those early micro's? That's probably what the Techies are juggling. Thomas Msg#: 5611 *GENERAL* 08/02/88 18:50:10 From: JEFF JENSEN To: THOMAS BARNETT (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 5554 (EARLY MICRO'S) I suspect that like myself, a lot of early hackers and micro owners have these systems collecting dust in the attic or basement as high rise spider condominiums. I have about 10 micros stuffed onto shelves and into boxes (like a home for orphan computers). They have a cash value of $0 in all but a few circles, and some have a sentimental value much greater than their monitary value. I watch the want ads and garage sales looking for that mint condition S-100 box to round out the collection. . . Jeff Msg#: 5637 *GENERAL* 08/03/88 02:09:44 From: THOMAS BARNETT To: JEFF JENSEN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 5611 (EARLY MICRO'S) I've got a lot of old micro's stuffed on shelves. I still use my S-100, or at least part of it though it is plugged with my own designs. I still have a modified Heath kit H-8, I packed away the four 16K ram boards and replaced them with two 43256 RAMS and I still have a CP/M modification kit for it. I have a Kaypro II that I still use as is. That was a great small business machine in 1982, but my needs outgrew its ability to keep up. It still gets used for a lot of word processing. On the bright side of the old processors, I just received my Deskjet printer service manual and was supprised to see that it's CPU is a Z80. HP has made this old boy do some amazing things. Thomas. Msg#: 5675 *GENERAL* 08/03/88 20:03:04 From: JEFF JENSEN To: THOMAS BARNETT (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 5637 (EARLY MICRO'S) I had a thought ;-) about asking the attendees and users here talk about their favorite or most memorable computer system/processor/projc ect. Somepareas to cover could be what the processor was, what the development environment/operation environment was, what it did, why it was a favorite or memorable item. . My favorite was the 6502 based game built for a college course. It was wire-wrapped on perf board. Each student got a kit of parts and a description of how to put them together and a description of what it was to do when completed. The 6502 had a 1702 EPROM for memory and a 6532 (I think) (less than 64 Bytes RAM, two ports, timers, etc). The 6532 drove an 8 digit 7-segment LED display from a calculator and read a three position toggle switch. The game was a "Car Race". The display was turned 90 degrees and viewed as a race track with three lanes. The toggle switch selected the lane for your car (full brightness line on LED) and the uProcessor generated a random pattern of oncoming cars (half brightness) to pass. Each "lap" caused your "car" to move one row closer to the top of the display and reduced your reaction time. . The software for the game was hand coded (coding sheets and a list of op codes) and had to fit in a single 1702 (256 Bytes). As I remember, I could only burn one or two EPROMS per week, so desk checking the code was a must. It had to handle the I/O functions as well as generate acceptable patterns of oncoming traffic (no cases of all three lanes filled). I got it to work in the last few days of the semester, but never got the final display of winning or losing to fit in the EPROM. I think it was the simplicity of the hardware and the coding challenge (space vs. performance and function) that made it memorable. . Your turn. . . Jeff Msg#: 5704 *GENERAL* 08/04/88 09:31:53 From: RON WILSON To: JEFF JENSEN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 5675 (EARLY MICRO'S) Memorable micro projects? . I built a RCA 1802 based back in 76 (I think) that had 256 bytes of RAM, 8 LEDs, 8 toggle switches, an "ENTER" button, and a run, stop, load switch. I was able to play music (by hooking a Radio shack mini-amp to one of the LEDs) and develop a "Quick Draw Shoot Out" game. . My most memorable project was later at Purdue University: we had to implement a 6800 by hand coding micro-code to implement to 6800 instruction set. We had only 512 words of micro-store to do this with. Interestingly enough, the previous semmester's section of this class had 1024 words of micro-stored and only half of the students were able to fit all of the code in the micro-store, BUT, in my section, everyone was able to fit all of their code with room to spare despite having only have the space available (my implementation occupied only 417 words out of the 512 available). The most difficult part of the project was implementing the DAA (decimal adjust accumulator) instruction - it took me 103 words of micro-store! - Ron l Msg#: 5730 *GENERAL* 08/04/88 19:24:28 From: JEFF JENSEN To: RON WILSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 5704 (EARLY MICRO'S) Its funny how programs expand to fill available memory plus 1 byte. Reduce storage and someone will figure out how to restructure the code to fit (someone's law or a corollary to Murphy). I remember having to rewrite working code several times as I added more functions just to get it all to fit. . . Jeff Msg#: 6334 *GENERAL* 08/16/88 22:58:03 From: THOMAS MCCRYSTAL To: THOMAS BARNETT (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 5305 (EARLY MICRO'S) Of course, when you only have 256 bytes and toggle switches, self-modifying code is NEAT! The problem with turbo-charged CPUs and megabytes of memory is that everybody has forgotten the fun of writing tight, greasy machine code -- hand assembled, of course. TMc Msg#: 6385 *GENERAL* 08/17/88 21:35:46 From: THOMAS BARNETT To: THOMAS MCCRYSTAL Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 6334 (EARLY MICRO'S) I agree, I have a lot of fun with the basics as well higher level languages. Thomas. Msg#: 5307 *GENERAL* 07/27/88 21:28:03 From: JOHN APPLEYARD To: ALL Subj: EGA AND COMPAQ Has anyone tried to install an EGA card on a Compaq or Compaq-like computer ?. What I specifcally need is this: How do you connect the internal monitor up to the EGA card ? I would imagine that you would use the feature connector to make the connections, but what are the corresponding pinouts on the feature connector (as compared to the 9 pin external socket) ? Any help would be greatly appreciated. Msg#: 5314 *GENERAL* 07/28/88 02:23:32 From: THOMAS BARNETT To: ANDREAS DESSOFF (Rcvd) Subj: V20 Andy, I've gave it a try, didn't think there were that many unused op code combinations that could be used to set a flag. I'll be off the board until next wednesday but if you will leave a time here on CCBBS when you will be available I'll call. Keep in mind there is three hours differenc{. Thomas. Msg#: 5876 *GENERAL* 08/08/88 12:22:32 From: ANDREAS DESSOFF To: THOMAS BARNETT (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 5314 (V20) Tom I am sorry that do to heavy workload I did not log on here again until today - thus I did not receive your message in time. I you still want to call I would suggest about 10 pm my time (I'm in Connecticut). Your time should be 7pm then. I will have my manual ready. Msg#: 5321 *GENERAL* 07/28/88 09:48:25 From: HENRY MINSKY To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: RTTY CONVERTERS Steve, I saw a letter in BYTE asking about RTTY to ascii conversion. HAM radio people have several products which do just that: since they still use RTTY on shortwave radio, you can buy boxes which do almost every kind of RTTY known to man. Just look in a ham radio magazine, like QST, or CQ, or 73. Products from AEA electronics, or Kantronics , will do RTTY, AMTOR, Ascii, and morse code! (And weather fax). THese things cost around $300. Not too cheap, but if you need one... BTW, I think it is shocking that the deaf community still has to use these aging dinosaur RTTY things. It would obviously save everyone money to just convert to 300/1200 baud ascii terminals, which are practically free now. Msg#: 5326 *GENERAL* 07/28/88 11:34:41 From: LARRY YOUNKINS To: ALL Subj: DC AREA BBS'S Recently there was a discussion of hardware-oriented BBS's in the DC area. I live close to DC and would be interested in hearing about any such boards. Thanks, Larry Younkins Msg#: 5350 *GENERAL* 07/28/88 19:58:31 From: BYRON BLAKE To: LARRY YOUNKINS (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 5326 (DC AREA BBS'S) Larry, I have supplied David Hessler (user on this board) with a list of networked public access Bulletin Boards in/around the mid atlantic states. These boards carry a world-wide distributed message conferneces, that are somewhat hardware orientated and deal almost exclusively with MS-DOS machines. I think you will be hard pressed to find a system like CC BBS in Washington DC or anyother state. Msg#: 5343 *GENERAL* 07/28/88 18:35:26 From: DAVID LAGERGREN To: SYSOP (Rcvd) Subj: 8052AH We are using the 8052ah and 8031 microcontrollers in a number of projects. I appreciate the information you have on this board and the projects Steve has done with them. I just down loaded the assembler etc. for the 8051 and will see how it looks. We are presently using a couple of boards of Steves design. I'm glad that there is a tec oriented board around now that doesn't cost loke BIX. Keep up the good work! Msg#: 5370 *GENERAL* 07/29/88 09:06:24 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: DAVID LAGERGREN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 5343 (8052AH) Thanks for the pep talk. We've been around for almost three years now (almost as long as BIX), so we're not new at the game. Msg#: 5396 *GENERAL* 07/29/88 11:02:05 From: STEVE CIARCIA To: DAVID LAGERGREN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 5343 (8052AH) If you have been using the 8052AH you should consider the 80C52. We also will have it in industrial temp with in a few weeks. -- Steve Msg#: 5418 *GENERAL* 07/29/88 19:46:02 From: DAVID LAGERGREN To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 5396 (8052AH) Steve-- I beleive the last board we received from Micro Mint was an 80c52 one, since they were out of the std. ones. We are adapting our Packet format to this board for use by fire depts. with mobile printers in their engines. Our company makes special modems and network/packet software that turns laptop and portable computers (toshibas, zeniths, et al) into mobile data terminals. We have TSR software for IBM compatibles, and are finishing development on a 64180 based machine from England and on the 8052 board. We have VAR's developing compatible products on 8051 machines and 8085 units (The Tandy 102). We also have some special file server software that is running on a 386 based file server with OEM 286 processors in a card cage running Novell. I've read your articles for a number of years and appreciate your information. Keep up the good work. Sorry to see you leave Byte, guess I'll have to suscribe to INK! --- Dave Msg#: 5523 *GENERAL* 08/01/88 09:17:53 From: STEVE CIARCIA To: DAVID LAGERGREN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 5418 (8052AH) When you subscribe to CC INK you will be in good company. Thanks for the vote of confidence. --Steve Msg#: 5365 *GENERAL* 07/29/88 01:08:42 From: GLEN DALRYMPLE To: ALL Subj: I R RECEIVER/DRIVERS I am experimenting with IR led's and dectectors and I can only send a few inches. My guess is that I need lenses; does anyone know where I can get the lens material or are there any suggestions so I can send 10 to 15 feet ? Msg#: 5380 *GENERAL* 07/29/88 09:36:53 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: GLEN DALRYMPLE (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 5365 (I R RECEIVER/DRIVERS) It sounds more likely that you're not driving the IR LED hard enough or aren't amplifying the received signal enough. If you haven't seen Steve's February and March 1987 articles on IR transmitting and receiving, I'd suggest you take a look at them. Msg#: 5489 *GENERAL* 07/31/88 18:44:21 From: ED NISLEY To: GLEN DALRYMPLE (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 5365 (I R RECEIVER/DRIVERS) The other thing to watch is the receiver... you need really high gain, but without saturating on normal room background. Often this is done with a tuned filter that matches the IR signal's carrier. We used a saturating detector on the IR Master Controller because it was only supposed to work over a few inches, but that circuit isn't useful for across-the-room applications. Msg#: 5633 *GENERAL* 08/03/88 00:19:33 From: GLEN DALRYMPLE To: ED NISLEY (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 5489 (I R RECEIVER/DRIVERS) Thanks for the help Ed. Are there any good books around on IR master slave circuits? or is there a good source of info on this subject? Msg#: 5893 *GENERAL* 08/08/88 21:23:08 From: ED NISLEY To: GLEN DALRYMPLE Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 5633 (I R RECEIVER/DRIVERS) Beats me. This is all "learn by doing" territory for me: a scope probe and some assembler seems to work wonders... Msg#: 5403 *GENERAL* 07/29/88 16:18:55 From: JASON SOLOFF To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: ROBOTICS STEVE, I AM WORKING ON A TACTILE MOVEMENT SYSTEM FOR A FOUR LEGGED ROBOT, AND WAS WONDERING IF ANY ARTICLES HAD BEEN DONE IN BYTE ON THE SUBJECT. Msg#: 5520 *GENERAL* 08/01/88 09:12:03 From: STEVE CIARCIA To: JASON SOLOFF (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 5403 (ROBOTICS) CC INK issue number 4 has a robot arm that uses micro switches for tactile input. To my knowledge, there haven't been any recent BYTE articles on the subject and, given their dive into clonism, there won't ever be any. --Steve Msg#: 5550 *GENERAL* 08/01/88 22:10:50 From: JASON SOLOFF To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 5520 (ROBOTICS) IT SEEMS THAT YOU ARE "DOWN" ON BYTE, I KNOW THAT IT IS TOO MUCH INTO ADVERTIZING, BUT IT IS AN O.K. MAGAZINE. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>-(JASON)-<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< Msg#: 5583 *GENERAL* 08/02/88 08:57:08 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: JASON SOLOFF (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 5550 (ROBOTICS) It depends on what your interests are. A few years ago, BYTE was famous for its "technology" articles; articles that covered new, state-of-the-art technology that hadn't necessarily made it to real products yet. It was a magazine that you would read cover to cover and then save for its reference value. Now it's turning into just another clone magazine. Notice that 95% of their coverage each month is IBM or Mac related? What if you couldn't care less about the latest "gee whiz" IBM clone or Mac paint program? When the next "gee whiz" version of the same hardware or program comes out, the information in that issue is useless. People have pointed out numerous times on BIX that the specialty magazines (e.g., PC Magazine) do a better job at covering their respective machines. Anyone who has been a long-time read of BYTE and liked the way it used to be has become disappointed with only finding one or two articles of lasting interest in each issue. That is the type of person who has been denigrating BYTE and letting his subscription lapse. If you're a fairly new reader who has an IBM or a Mac and are interested in just reviews of the latest and greatest in the clone world, then you probably enjoy the new BYTE. The rest of us aren't and don't, and are expressing our dissatisfaction with the magazine. Msg#: 5422 *GENERAL* 07/30/88 00:19:14 From: THOMAS MCCRYSTAL To: HOWARD SHUBS Subj: FOR WHAT IT'S WORTH Steve, I do indeed look at your passing from the pages of Byte as the end of an era. My first issue was #13 (the first anniversary issue), and I have been an on-and-off subscriber since. Those were heady days....Byte was the place for those of us who liked to perform abdominal surgery on our machines...usually after bringing them to life in the first place. Now, except for the Cellar and the Manor, it is just like any other nameless, faceless computer rag. In short, where is my incentive to subscribe? I don't have to actually BUILD CC projects to find them enjoyable, informative, and fun. I do enough serious stuff with my machines 70+ hours a week -- why would I want to pay to read another review of a spreadsheet or a word processor or page layout program when I stare at the damn things all day? F**k Byte. Ink got my subscription bucks, and McGraw-Hill didn't. TMc Msg#: 5429 *GENERAL* 07/30/88 11:42:06 From: PELLERVO KASKINEN To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: IEEE-488 DISK DRIVES This, like most of what I find myself doing comes late (sigh...) but I just read the latest Byte and noticed your answer regarding sources for an IEEE-488 bus disk drive. I have been a more or less happy user of a Bering hard disk for my HP-87A computer. Moreover, when we needed a hard disk and floppy system for something we do at work, we again got what we needed from Bering, at less than half the price of anything that we could have found from HP. . Bering Industries, 280 Technology Circle, Scotts Valley, . CA 95066, telephone 408-438-8779. . I do not know if you can forward this still to the person who originally asked for the info. In any case, if there is some further need to discuss the technical details and even a skeleton program to do the communications, I can provide such information on a week's - maybe 2's notice. Some of it is in BASIC/80 and some is for FORTH running in a 68000 based controller. -- PJK Msg#: 5430 *GENERAL* 07/30/88 11:49:38 From: PELLERVO KASKINEN To: PHIL CHADWICK (Rcvd) Subj: FORTH FOR SB180 I know of two versions of FORTH running in SB180. Indeed, I have both of them. The first one is the public domain F83 by Laxen and Perry. The other one is the old MVP FORTH by Mountain View Press. Both of these are available on many bulletin boards, the MVP FORTH also on the FOG library disk series. If there is need, I can upload the stuff, but be warned that the L&P version is all Hufman coded and it takes a while to get it "de-archived" (it is not an .ARC type file). The F83 is marvelous in that it contains a Metacompiler and therefore it can easily be ported over to literally any processor that you have the necessary machine code information and some amount of communication access. -- PJK Msg#: 5456 *GENERAL* 07/30/88 21:35:11 From: TOM WHEELER To: ALL Subj: 8052 W/BASIC Does anyone have any information on the 8052 cpu w/built-in BASIC? I've got an NCR 634 Tape Drive that I'd like to interface to my XT clone using the 8052. I could also use some information on the Wang serial bus (TNC/BNC connectors). THANX! Msg#: 5519 *GENERAL* 08/01/88 09:10:31 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: TOM WHEELER (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 5456 (8052 W/BASIC) Steve did an article in the August 1985 issue of BYTE using the 8052. The BCC52 board is still available from Micromint and CCI. If you want data books, get Intel's Microcontroller Handbook (which is outdated) or the newer Embedded Controller Handbook. Msg#: 5459 *GENERAL* 07/30/88 22:21:44 From: ARNOLD BERKOWITZ To: ALL Subj: INTEL HANDBOOK FOR SALE I am offering the Intel 210918-005 handbook set which covers the 8051, 8052, 8031, and other CPU chips covered by many CCI articles. The Embedded Controller Handbook is for sale at $ 12.00 Send check to Arnold Berkowitz 1700 Sunny Crest Lane Bonita, CA 92002 or call (619) 421-4722 Msg#: 5462 *GENERAL* 07/30/88 23:20:33 From: BYRON BLAKE To: DAVID HESSLER (Rcvd) Subj: YOUR REQUEST David, A few weeks back you inquired as to BBSes (Hardware related) in the WASH DC, PA, and CA areas. I have filled several Email msgs to you with that information. Specifically, you requested one for Concord, CA: Nerd's Nook International Fido Network: Network 161, Node 1 SysOp: Butch Walker National Echo Mail Coordinator Phone: 415-672-2504 Concord, California Maximum Baud: 9600 HST Accepts Mail 24hours per day Wazoo File Requests Honored Regards, Byron Blake 1:142/911 and 0:142/550 Msg#: 6156 *GENERAL* 08/12/88 21:11:37 From: DAVID HESSLER To: BYRON BLAKE (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 5462 (YOUR REQUEST) Byron, thanks for the concord ca data on bbs to my son, good input.. DAve Msg#: 6196 *GENERAL* 08/13/88 11:33:13 From: BYRON BLAKE To: DAVID HESSLER Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 6156 (YOUR REQUEST) David your most welcomed. The International Fido Network Association maintains a list of computers on the network, the list is updatyed weekly and called NODELIST.ARC, in archive format it is 164K in expanded format it is about 360K. Tthe list should be on a local fido Node. If you are in need of a local Fido node give me your area code and local prefixs. Byron Msg#: 5465 *GENERAL* 07/31/88 00:59:57 From: KEITH JESSE To: ALL Subj: EPROMS Can earlier eproms such as 2716 and 2732's be programmed using the fast programming algorithym? I've heard not but seen at least one comercial programmer that does program an 2732 too quickly for the 50ms method. Msg#: 5504 *GENERAL* 08/01/88 07:42:01 From: BOB PADDOCK To: KEITH JESSE (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 5465 (EPROMS) You can program the 2716 or 2732 using the fast algorithym, BUT there is no saying the part will stay programed for any length of time. You should always stick to what the manufacture recommends for reliablity resons. If you have to program faster us 2716Bs or 2732Bs from AMD, they use on of the fast programing algorithym. Msg#: 5469 *GENERAL* 07/31/88 09:30:18 From: BRIAN JOSEPH To: KEN DAVIDSON (Rcvd) Subj: XMODEM SOURCE Ken, I found an Xmodem pgm in the recent uploads section...... Also, in regards to noise on the tel lines, in my experiences with long distance BBSing, I have found that by using AT+T I usually don't get any bad characters. When I use my LD co (US Sprint) most of the time I get a good line. When I try to use MCI or Teleconnect from my office, GARBAGE CITY!!!!!! Brian. Msg#: 5510 *GENERAL* 08/01/88 08:29:49 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: BRIAN JOSEPH (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 5469 (XMODEM SOURCE) That's what I've been telling people for years. If you have noise problems, call via AT&T. You should see a noticeable improvement. Msg#: 5476 *GENERAL* 07/31/88 12:20:28 From: PELLERVO KASKINEN To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: BERING ADDRESS Yesterday I left a message giving the address of Bering Industries, a manufacturer of HP compatible disk drives. Looks like there either are two divisions with different addresses, or the address that I gave is obsolete - it came from an ad last January. The address given on the Project side, message #5289 matches what I saw in an ad just this morning. Anyway, the drives for IEEE-488 are available at less than HP price tag suggests. -- PJK Msg#: 5481 *GENERAL* 07/31/88 13:42:52 From: VIC FRAENCKEL To: EDWARD WOOD (Rcvd) Subj: ELECTRONIC COMPASS Edward - this is another request for a copy of the Electronic Compass article. we are looking for a good electronic compass to be used in hot air ballooning, but the commercial versions are quite pricey. we would like to 'roll our own'. you have been generous in sharing this article with others. i will gladly pay to receive a copy of the article. my address is: vic fraenckel 522 sacandaga road scotia, new york 12302 any assistance will be appreciated vic fraenckel Msg#: 5497 *GENERAL* 07/31/88 21:27:53 From: EDWARD WOOD To: VIC FRAENCKEL (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 5481 (ELECTRONIC COMPASS) The article is on its way. Be warned that this is not a pject article but a design abstract that give the "bare bones" schematic for the sensor part of an electronic compass. Designing circuitry to give a directional indication from the sensor unit is up to you. Also, the magneto-resistive sensors used are from a British source. I've written to the company that supplies them inquiring as to availability in North America. I'll post a message giving any sources that I hear about. Msg#: 5642 *GENERAL* 08/03/88 07:45:00 From: VIC FRAENCKEL To: EDWARD WOOD (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 5497 (ELECTRONIC COMPASS) edward: thanks for the article and i hope you hear good words about the sensors. i will watch for your announcement - again THANKS - vic f Msg#: 5482 *GENERAL* 07/31/88 15:21:04 From: LARRY SIMS To: ALL Subj: BCC-52 USERS I WOULD LIKE TO HEAR FROM SOME OTHER BCC-52 USERS IN THE HOUSTON / DALLAS AREA. I AM CURRENTLY WORKING ON A BCC-52 BASED PLOTTER PROJECT. MY HOUSTON DAY NUMBER IS 713-425-3846 M-F. Msg#: 5484 *GENERAL* 07/31/88 16:46:35 From: STEVE DUNCAN To: ALL Subj: SOUND TELESCOPE Hi folks! I am currently trying to build a sound telescope and am having g a few problems. I am using a 1/2 inch diameter aluminum tube, with a haa small mic at one end. My problem is getting rid of the roaring sound I get, like when you put a seashell up to your ear, and making the thing more directional. Any Ideas? Steve Duncan Msg#: 5503 *GENERAL* 08/01/88 07:37:54 From: BOB PADDOCK To: STEVE DUNCAN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 5484 (SOUND TELESCOPE) Try to find a copy of "How To Get Any Thing On Any Boudy" by Lee Lapain (Spelling?) or the classic "The Big Brother Game" by French. They both have info on shotgun mics. Msg#: 5543 *GENERAL* 08/01/88 18:46:43 From: STEVE DUNCAN To: BOB PADDOCK (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 5503 (SOUND TELESCOPE) I would like to find the information without buying any books, if possible. I have seen articles on this subject before, but do not remember where I saw them, and in any case they did not give much info on how thier "big ear" worked, just on how to build it. I still have a few I ideas to try, and a friend of mine does have "How to get anything on anybody" by Lee Lapin. I any case, If anyone else has any info on directional microphones using a tuned tube, I would be most interested. S. Duncan. Msg#: 5486 *GENERAL* 07/31/88 17:38:34 From: LARRY SIMS To: JEFF BACHIOCHI (Rcvd) Subj: BCC-52 IS THERE A SHREWARE OR FREE ASSEMBLY LANGUAGE SUBROUTINE THAT WILL ALLOW PARALLEL OUTPUT TO BE DIRECTED TO THE 8255 PORT ON THE BCC-522? I WANT TO SED COMMAND STRINGS TO A SWEET-P 100 PLOTTER. Msg#: 5584 *GENERAL* 08/02/88 09:00:51 From: JEFF BACHIOCHI To: LARRY SIMS (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 5486 (BCC-52) . Larry, . I wrote a routine a few years ago that might be what you are looking for. It uses UO0 and UO1 to go between console port and Centronics port (8255) on the BCC52. The routine is probably around and if you think it is of any value to you I'll ask KEN to post it. The tough part will be discribing the cable connections. It may take a few days to dig this out! . jeff Msg#: 5687 *GENERAL* 08/04/88 00:59:36 From: LARRY SIMS To: JEFF BACHIOCHI (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 5584 (BCC-52) YES, I WOULD LIKE TO SEE THE CODE. I HAVE BEEN READING INTEL'S EMMBEDDED CONTROLLLER HANDBOOK ON ARCHITECTURE AND INSTRUCTION SET.. EVEN THOUGH I AM A BEGINNING ML PROGRAMMERR THINGS ARE BEGNNING] TO FALL IN PLACE. THANKS FOR YOUR ASSISTANCE ON THE PARALLEL PORT DRIVER. I WILL CHECK MESSAGES IN A FEW DAYS. L. SIMS HOUSTON TX Msg#: 5720 *GENERAL* 08/04/88 17:15:39 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: LARRY SIMS (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 5486 (BCC-52) I'm attaching to this message a file that contains the Centronics code Jeff was referring to. To get the file, type "E" at the command prompt to indicate that you want to download the enclosure. The system then asks for a protocol. Be sure to select either XMODEM or YMODEM since it is a binary file. Finally, tell your end to begin receiving the file. Once you have it, ARC will break it into individual files. If you don't have ARC, go to the Projects files area and either the Ciarcia's Circuit Cellar or the INK subarea and download it. *Enclosed File: centronx.arc Msg#: 5899 *GENERAL* 08/09/88 00:19:56 From: LARRY SIMS To: KEN DAVIDSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 5720 (BCC-52) tHANKS FOR THE CODE. I'LL TAKE A LOOK AT IT TOMMORROW AND GET BACK TO YOU ON THE BOARD IN A FEW DAYS. FOR ANYONE WHO NEEDS A BETTER UNDERSTANDING OF THE 8051 SERIES THEN INTEL EMBEDDED CONTROLLER HANDBOOK IS GREAT. THE ORDER NUMBER IS 210918-006. THANKS AGAIN. Msg#: 6179 *GENERAL* 08/13/88 00:24:46 From: LARRY SIMS To: KEN DAVIDSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 5720 (BCC-52) KEN-- Thanks for Jeff's machine language driver. I have written a text file in reply with a few questions. How can I upload this text file to the mssage area ? Thanks for your help. LARRY SIMS HOUSTON, TX Msg#: 6279 *GENERAL* 08/16/88 09:28:53 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: LARRY SIMS (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 6179 (BCC-52) Go into message entry mode, but answer lock mode instead of ine mode. Then tell your terminal program to send the message as an ASCII upload with a small delay at the end of each line. Be sure to include at least one space on any line meant to be blank when preparing the file. When done sending, press Return to exit insert mode and you'll be able to look at and edit the message. Msg#: 5539 *GENERAL* 08/01/88 15:18:05 From: DAVID CHAPPELL To: DAVE STONE Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 96 (PD SCHEMATIC EDITOR) I have used a sharware skematic editor called edraw. The releases I have seen don't have a very large or very good selection of built in symbols but they are very easy to create. If anyone is interested I might be able to get hold of copy to upload. Msg#: 5540 *GENERAL* 08/01/88 15:25:21 From: DAVID CHAPPELL To: ALL Subj: KEYBOARDS I have several questions about keyboards. First what is the difference between the interface of the ibm pc and at keyboards, second does anyone know how to connect a ibm compatible keyboard to a Tandy 1000 SX? The conectors mate but the pins have different assignments. Also the skan codes have slight differences but I think I can work this out. Msg#: 5603 *GENERAL* 08/02/88 16:24:08 From: BOB PADDOCK To: DAVID CHAPPELL (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 5540 (KEYBOARDS) Check out the file 'keys310.arc' in the IBM download section. It tells you more than you ever cared to know about IBM type keyboards. Msg#: 5609 *GENERAL* 08/02/88 17:47:49 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: DAVID CHAPPELL (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 5540 (KEYBOARDS) Make that the IBM Upload section for the file Bob describes. Msg#: 5549 *GENERAL* 08/01/88 22:03:56 From: CHUCK FRYAR To: ALL Subj: PHOTO RESIST I am looking for some information on sensitizing PC boards. I can do the artwork, exposure, and etching just fine, but am having trouble finding a good way to put the resist on the boards at home. Pre-sensitized are the wrong sizes and hard to get in this area. I am particularly interested in the dry laminate resist, but don't know what temperatures, presures, etc. are needed. Resolution requires 1 line between pads. I would appreciate anyones experiences and sugestions. Thanks in advance, ++ Chuck ++ p.s. - I know about kaypro's 5 12x12 boards for $125, but I can get enough dry restist for 65 12x12 boards both sides for $125 and also it is hard to cut down a pre-sensitized board without damaging the resist, I really need a way to do my own. Msg#: 5599 *GENERAL* 08/02/88 13:40:47 From: DAVE EVERS To: CHUCK FRYAR (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 5549 (PHOTO RESIST) I am in the same boat that you are, but I have just taken to relatively extravagant step of buying a roll of the dry film laminate (at $175 - ouch!!!) to try to work out the process of laminating my own boards. I called Kepro and asked them about the process, they told me their laminator uses 300 degrees F and 20 lbs of pressure. However, I got the roll of film yesterday and it came with a data sheet from Du Pont that says laminating temperatures were from 200 - 250 degress F. Anyway, I tried using an iron set at the highest setting for my first attempt and it melted the resist. Backing it down to about the low permanent press setting seemed to be a little better, but I still got melted spots which deformed the pattern when exposed. I'm going to try it out again tonight and I'll drop a note here if I get any better results. By the way, to help defray my costs a little bit, if anyone is interested in experimenting with this stuff, I'd be happy to sell off a little bit at a time... say at about $2.50 a foot (the film is 12" wide and comes with clear film on both sides). Let me know here or send me a letter at: Dave Evers 2500 Larch Rd. #58 Quincy, IL 62301 (217) 224-3615 (Home) Msg#: 6080 *GENERAL* 08/11/88 20:08:08 From: CHUCK FRYAR To: DAVE EVERS (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 5599 (PHOTO RESIST) Dave - Thanks for the reply. I feel like the dry resist is the way to go, and am very interested in your experiences. I'll send you a check in a few days for 10 feet ($25) plus a couple of $ for shipping. It is a lot simpler and cheaper than my sources. Thanks very much for your help. _----- Chuck ---- Msg#: 6126 *GENERAL* 08/12/88 11:29:53 From: DAVE EVERS To: CHUCK FRYAR (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 6080 (PHOTO RESIST) I thought I'd bring you up to date on my experience. I have had very good luck lately laminating the resist using a plastic laminating machine from General Binding Corp. of Northbrook, IL. (I borrowed it from work). However, I am going to go back and try using a flat iron because it is much more generic and I'm interested in if it can work. My experience so far has been that I am running about 50 - 100% longer exposure times using my own laminated board vs. the pre-laminated boards I got from Kepro. I'm not sure what the cause is, but I'm satisfied with it now that I know it's happening. The developer is just Arm & Hammer Washing Soda that costs about $1 for a 1 lb box. I use about a teaspoon to a quart of hot water, dissolve it thoroughly in a flat glass tray (Pyrex casserole dish), then drop the board in it. Use a small soft sponge and gently rub the board in a circular motion until the resist begins to "slime away". At that point, I usually remove it from the tray and hold the board under warm to hot running water while still rubbing with the sponge. This removes it from the developer which early on I had problems with it attacking the exposed portions of the board. Anyway, under water most of the resist will wash away and you will begin to see bare copper. I usually then just dip the sponge in the washing soda solution and apply it to the board rather than returning the board to to bath just to protect the resist, but a little experimentation will show you what you can get away with. Anyway, once the board is developed, you can etch it for as long as you want and all the problems you'll get will be undercutting under the resist. I have never seen the resist separate from the board during etching. Once the board is etched, return it to the developer and leave it for about 20 - 45 minutes and all the exposed resist will separate and you will have a perfect board! Let me know how you make out with this stuff - I'm interested to see if others can have similar success. Msg#: 5553 *GENERAL* 08/01/88 23:57:24 From: THOMAS BARNETT To: JEFF JENSEN (Rcvd) Subj: CCBBS USERS Jeff I like that idea. I had to come back from Disneyland two days early. Quite frankly it would be less expensive to fly to Connecticut and back than what Disneyland cost with seven kids. Ouch! Anyway it is a great idea. Thomas. Msg#: 5610 *GENERAL* 08/02/88 18:44:23 From: JEFF JENSEN To: THOMAS BARNETT (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 5553 (CCBBS USERS) I feel just a little bit bad about having all these bright ideas, yet not being in a position to do much about them. I think it would take someone living in and around the meeting area to organize and coordinate a successful event. Now if you want to come to Omaha.... . . Jeff Msg#: 5566 *GENERAL* 08/02/88 02:10:33 From: CRAIG OLSON To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: SC-01 FILES? Hi Steve, I remember your interest in the SC-01 speech board. Have you heard of any data libraries that are floati{g around? I sure would like to obtain some "pre-written" phoneme phrases if at all po{sible. I just read your article on the MC-51 series. Thanks for the tip on the shareware assembler. I downloaded it, but have had to deal with the format differences from the Intel standard, oh well, I'm not complaining. I picked up the embedded controller handbook and also the applications handbook and was glad to see a couple of your past articles included. I wasn't aware how far the controller world has come. {Thanks for the great hacking! See ya some day.... Msg#: 5590 *GENERAL* 08/02/88 09:49:27 From: STEVE CIARCIA To: CRAIG OLSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 5566 (SC-01 FILES?) If you like good controller projects, stay tuned to Circuit Cellar INK. Since I am no longer in BYTE, CC INK gets all my wit and humor for the future, and some good hardware projects too :-) Sorry, I used to have a SC-01 phoneme dictionary (wait I think there is a phoneme dictionary in the Micromint Microvox speech synthesizer manual - let me check. Yup, it's limited but it has all the necessary words - 4 pages worth). Give Micromint a call and order a manual. --Steve Msg#: 6020 *GENERAL* 08/11/88 01:41:16 From: CRAIG OLSON To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 5590 (SC-01 FILES?) Hi Steve, Thanks for the response about the SC-01. I have followed your articles for years now. I have just dived into the MCS-51 series and look forward to yet another assembler language to learn. I was able to pick-up all the Intel books I could carry from the local Intel office! I eas like a kid in a candy store, the women said she had seen the look before! I wish you well... Msg#: 6062 *GENERAL* 08/11/88 16:15:49 From: STEVE CIARCIA To: CRAIG OLSON Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 6020 (SC-01 FILES?) Glad I could help. You candy store guys are the perfect readers for my Circuit Cellar INK magazine. My stuff will only be there after December. No more in BYTE. --Steve Msg#: 5567 *GENERAL* 08/02/88 02:35:05 From: ALLAN LONG To: KEN DAVIDSON (Rcvd) Subj: VIDEO SENDERS Ken - I dont remember who asked about video senders so I am sending this to you in hopes that whoever it was will see it. I found a video sender that will send TV or VCR signals up to 100 feet to a television or I guess another VCR. It says on the box that you can send to UHF or VHF with NTSC or PAL signals. This particular unit (yes I bought it) sends ntsc to uhf channel 15. It is made in Taiwan, no U.S. company put their name on it but I bought it at Skaggs Alpha Beta, a local grocery, everything else type store. This device might be useful to send Video from a security camera where it was impractical or unwise to run wire. Let me know if youre interested. I would consider donating this unit to INK for a teardown evaluation even though it costs (gag) $30.00 . Allan Msg#: 5579 *GENERAL* 08/02/88 08:14:35 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: ALLAN LONG (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 5567 (VIDEO SENDERS) I don't remember either. It would take searching through back messages. Does your unit have an FCC certification number on the bottom of it? I would assume that if it made it as far as a retail store, it would be legit, but you never know. I don't know how much we could learn from a tear-down. I'm sure it's full of coils, resistors, little metal boxes, and other assorted analog mumbo-jumbo. Msg#: 5691 *GENERAL* 08/04/88 02:08:02 From: ALLAN LONG To: KEN DAVIDSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 5579 (VIDEO SENDERS) Ken No fcc certification on the bottom. UH OH. It has video and audio jacks on the back and runs off 12v DC there are adjustments on top for "A" "S" "V" god only knows what they are for. It is about the size of a package of cigarettes except for a small telescoping antenna. I was concerned about the fcc when I noticed no address for the manufacturer. What the heck it has a few screws on the side and is a metal box so I may take it down myself and see what it has. More later. Msg#: 5600 *GENERAL* 08/02/88 15:31:31 From: STEVE WALKER To: SYSOP (Rcvd) Subj: THE FILE MASTER.ARC HELLO KEN. I AM NEW TO THE BULLETIN BOARD. I WOULD LIKE TO DOWNLOAD THE INFORMATION IN THE FILE MASTER.ARC, FROM THE MASTER CONTROLLER PROJECT. PLEASE LET ME KNOW HOW I MIGHT DO THIS. THANK YOU. Msg#: 5608 *GENERAL* 08/02/88 17:46:19 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: STEVE WALKER Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 5600 (THE FILE MASTER.ARC) Go to the iles section from the main menu and read the selection I just added called ow to Download Files. If you still have questions, ask again (but please explain exactly what step you're having trouble with). Msg#: 5602 *GENERAL* 08/02/88 15:50:16 From: PETER HOUSE To: ALL Subj: IEEE SPECIFICATIONS If anyone knows where to get printed information on the IEEE specifications (RS-232,RS485...etc.) Please leave Email to Peter House :-) Msg#: 5617 *GENERAL* 08/02/88 19:17:30 From: STEVE HARRIS To: DAVE EVERS (Rcvd) Subj: PCB'S Dave, I read one of your messages (#5277) to everyone about making PC boards and I thought I'd also share my experience with making boards. We both use a very similar system, I use to buy sensitizing spray and spray my blank copper clad boards, but this can get messy and smelly and I think I'll start buying the laminated boards (I did not know where to buy them before reading your message, thanks). I also take my layout to a printer. I use to print out the board in a 2X form (I use smARTWORKS) and have the printer make a 50% reduction onto a transparency on a high quality xerox machine (xerox 1090). I find that this provides good enough resolution for 100 mill dip work and and medium resolution surface mount work, and it costs about $0.50. Now that I have a QMS laser printer I use it to make transparencies directly off of the CAD package. I should also mention that I am using a chemical POSITIVE system, this allows me to use the transparencies. Otherwise I'd be forced to create negatives. I also found that the washing solution (for a positive system, it could be different for a negative system) is Sodium Hydroxide based. How ever my experiments with using drain cleaner (usually 3% NaOH 97% H20) did not yield totally successful results. For doing plated through holes, I was told that PACE sells eyelits that can be inserted into the holes. These are apparently used for circuit board repair work, but I see no reason why they can be used for our purposes. I too am searching for a good way of doing plated through holes. I do know of a place that sells a machine to do the job but it sells for $12000. If you would like some information I'd be glad to send it to you. However, I do not think I shall be doing to much more work with making PCB by a chemical means. Two months ago I purchased a machine that automatically mills and drills my prototype circuit boards directly from my layout on the computer. It has accelerated my hardware development time by 2000% Steve Harris Msg#: 5713 *GENERAL* 08/04/88 12:40:55 From: DAVE EVERS To: STEVE HARRIS (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 5617 (PCB'S) Thanks for your message - I have heard about the drilling/milling machines and they probably work great. Wish I could afford one for home!. (I am playing around with the idea of modifying a flat-bed plotter to hold a Dremel Moto-tool to make a mini-CNC drill - I suppose the same idea could be adapted to grind away excess copper as well). Anyway, I would really like to find out about the PACE products - I haven't been able to find out anything about them. Please drop me a note here or a letter to my address (2500 Larch Rd. #58, Quincy, IL 62301) with an address or phone number of PACE so I can hunt them up. Sounds like a good possibility. By the way, I read about a way of doing positive work using dry film - you expose your board with the positive transparency and develop the board, which leaves resist everywhere but on your traces and pads. Then, you tin plate the board using an electroless process (GC and others sell a bottle of stuff that you immerse the board in and it plates in about 10-15 minutes). Then you strip the dry resist from the board and etch it. Evidently the tin plate becomes the resist - I assumed the etchant would attack it as well but perhaps not. I read this in a book and haven't tried it myself yet; but I will soon. Also, I took a deep breath and bought a roll of the dry film resist from Kepro ($175) and have been experimenting with laminating boards myself. Having relatively poor luck so far using a regular flat iron with a sheet of kraft paper between it and the board. Seems to be very temperature critical and its hard to keep from melting the material. So far the best luck I have had has been using a laminating machine designed for laminating plastic over paper (business cards, etc). It has motorized rollers that feed it a across a resistive heater at a relatively constant rate and pressure. The big problem seems to be air bubbles - they cause the film to melt and cause a deformed spot. Also, for some reason after I have laminated the film this way, it seems to be less sensitive to UV light - I haven't yet got a decent exposure from my homemade laminate, where I could get consistent results from the prelaminated board before. Oh well, I guess that's why I bought the whole roll! Msg#: 5627 *GENERAL* 08/02/88 22:24:48 From: ERIC NAUS To: BOB PADDOCK (Rcvd) Subj: CYCLOPS DIGITAL CAMERA HI BOB I HAVE THAT ARTICLE AND JUST ABOUT EVERY OTHER ARTICLE ON HOBBY ROBOTICS FROM THE EARLY 70'S.IT APPEARED IN POPULAR ELECTRONICS IN JANUARY 1975.IT USED A 4K DYNAMIC RAM CHIP THAT HAD THE TOP REMOVED. IT PRODUCED A CRUDE PICTURE BUT REQUIRED VERY LITTLE HARDWARE SINCE IT CONNECTED UP TO A SCOPE.STEVE HAD A MORE UP TODATE VERSION AND THAT THAT RAM CHIP IS AVAILABLE FROM MICROMINT.IF YOU HAVE ANY MORE QUESTIONS ,FEEL FREE TO ASK. BYE FOR NOW ERIC Msg#: 5629 *GENERAL* 08/02/88 22:57:25 From: DONALD WICAL To: SYSOP (Rcvd) Subj: GENERAL Jim, Sure appreciate the opportunity to use your board. Have not used too many but did find yours relatively simple to use. A lot of text to plow through to get going but I guess that is understandable. Just for your information, I am calling in on a Wells American AT Clone, Hayes 1200 modem using a monochrome monitor with QMODEM. As a matter of fact just learning to use QMODEM after finally giving up on SCOM II when it would not recongnize the fact that I had a 1200 baud modem anymore. Again, thanks for the use of the board. Appreciate it. .........Don Wical, Columbia, SC........... Msg#: 5648 *GENERAL* 08/03/88 08:56:24 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: DONALD WICAL Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 5629 (GENERAL) Jim? Thanks for the comment. As for the amount of text, it's a no-win situation. Too much text and people don't bother reading it and ask all kinds of questions. Not enough text and you get as many questions. That's why the new-user information starts by asking you to read everything. Msg#: 5631 *GENERAL* 08/02/88 23:28:02 From: MARK BALCH To: ALL Subj: THE "VERY" BASICS I have several questions about the basics of electronic design with TTL logic. I have gotten confused and need things to be cleared up! Is there any standard measure of a TTL or LS TTL load in Milliamps? If so what is it? Now...In the TTL data book the 74LS245 has a high level output current of -15 mA. Its input current however is .1 mA. Does this mean that this LS245 can drive ??? 150 ??? LS245 inputs ?!?!!! What is the difference between an IC's (LS245) Ii and Iih? The LS245's Ii says .1 mAand the Iih says 20 uA. Does this then mean that the maximum high input current is 20 uA and if so the LS245's output can drive ??? 750 ??? LS245 inputs??? (impossible!) As you can see I am very confused about TTL loading! If anyone has these answers...HELP! Mark. Msg#: 5638 *GENERAL* 08/03/88 02:16:01 From: THOMAS BARNETT To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 5320 I thought about it after I said it and of course anyone who works with rocket launchers for soda bottles has, without question, got it all togather. Thomas. Msg#: 5639 *GENERAL* 08/03/88 02:21:10 From: JASON SOLOFF To: KEN DAVIDSON (Rcvd) Subj: BYTE MAGAZINE Ken, I agree compleatly, BYTE is changing into a magazing for advertizing the lates "Deal of the Century". I was just wondering if the magazine had done anything "Decent" in the field of robotics. jason Msg#: 5662 *GENERAL* 08/03/88 12:03:04 From: EVAN HOLLANDER To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: 8751 PROGRAMMING Steve, Regarding your offer of a schematic for programming 8751's using the intelligent programmer you presented. How do I obtaing a copy ...? Thanks, Evan Hollander Msg#: 5707 *GENERAL* 08/04/88 09:58:07 From: STEVE CIARCIA To: EVAN HOLLANDER (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 5662 (8751 PROGRAMMING) Jeff Bachiochi has that info but, since so many people have asked for it, we may wait and publish it in CC INK rather than send out a hundred individual letters. Curt will ultimately decide. -- Steve Msg#: 5669 *GENERAL* 08/03/88 16:34:57 From: JOHN MEALEY To: ALL Subj: BASIC ELECTRONICS Looking for a good text on basic electronics. I know about software enough for now, but need to be able to start making headway in kits and projects. Basic sodering technique still eludes me. I would eventually like to put together telephone related kits that are useful. I have to pay dearly for the phone rates from the office (AT&T) so I'll check back on Friday early AM from home. Thanks guys- Mealey Msg#: 5699 *GENERAL* 08/04/88 08:58:26 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: JOHN MEALEY (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 5669 (BASIC ELECTRONICS) Heathkit has a whole series of educational units that teach basic electronics and computer theory, plus give you hands-on experience with a soldering iron and such. They've been doing this sort of thing for years, so I would recommend you look into them first. Msg#: 5858 *GENERAL* 08/08/88 09:11:15 From: JOHN MEALEY To: KEN DAVIDSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 5699 (BASIC ELECTRONICS) I shall. The kits look good, and I have a dealer near me eager to get me going. This looks like a winner. Msg#: 5676 *GENERAL* 08/03/88 20:08:26 From: JEFF JENSEN To: ALL Subj: THERMAL SENSOR SELF-HEATING Does anyone have experience with using semi temperature sensors? I have been reading up on the LM334 and others and noticed a comment on a tendancy for these guys to self-heat. Is this a significant problem, or in another form, what impact would this have on room-temperature measurements? Is it necessary to design the circuit so that the sensor is only powered during a measurement or is the effect predictable enough that an adjustment can be made on the reading? . . Jeff Msg#: 5706 *GENERAL* 08/04/88 09:37:43 From: RON WILSON To: JEFF JENSEN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 5676 (THERMAL SENSOR SELF-HEATING) Interesting..... I don't have an answer, but an application of this effect occures to me: . package the temp sensor circuit with a crystal oscillator in say a plastice 35mm film can - the circuit could be wired to control its own power feed and thus create a constant temperature environment for the oscillator - which would make a low-budget high accuracy frequency reference. Msg#: 5731 *GENERAL* 08/04/88 19:27:34 From: JEFF JENSEN To: RON WILSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 5706 (THERMAL SENSOR SELF-HEATING) Another application for the self-heating effect occurs to me, but I can't remember where I saw it. Use it as a flow meter by calculating heat loss to a gas or liquid passing over the sensor. Probably take a second sensor kept at ambient (short, pulsed operation) to reference. . . Jeff Msg#: 5738 *GENERAL* 08/04/88 22:30:04 From: RIX SEACORD To: JEFF JENSEN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 5731 (THERMAL SENSOR SELF-HEATING) Jeff As I recall from an article many moons ago. Using 2 sensors, shield one from air movement and the other free in the air to make a wind speed indicator. Only works with self heating sensors Rix Msg#: 5750 *GENERAL* 08/05/88 01:17:34 From: ALLAN LONG To: RON WILSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 5706 (THERMAL SENSOR SELF-HEATING) The second or base sensor would need to be sealed a vacuum would make a better seal. That way the sensor should give a more consistent reading. Msg#: 5778 *GENERAL* 08/05/88 18:27:19 From: JEFF JENSEN To: RIX SEACORD Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 5738 (THERMAL SENSOR SELF-HEATING) That may have been the same article I saw. It seems that the App Notes from the National data book also had that idea. . . Jeff Msg#: 5987 *GENERAL* 08/10/88 08:56:17 From: PETER DEAL To: JEFF JENSEN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 5676 (THERMAL SENSOR SELF-HEATING) Jeff I've played with the AD590 temp sensor from analog devices and this seems to work well without self heating. The sensor is a current mode device and at room temp. the current is so small (I think about 300uA at room temp) I don't see how the device could self heat. The sensor is available from Jameco as a AD590IH (this is actually a second source from intersil). Msg#: 6010 *GENERAL* 08/10/88 18:52:34 From: JEFF JENSEN To: PETER DEAL (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 5987 (THERMAL SENSOR SELF-HEATING) Thanks, Peter. I've got one of them around someplace. - - Jeff Msg#: 5679 *GENERAL* 08/03/88 20:34:55 From: LEO TAYLOR To: KEN DAVIDSON (Rcvd) Subj: NEW SYSTEM Hello, just in case I don't see you Thursday I'd like to drop a few comments. This is my first time on since the system changed (how does that date me?). I'm usually in favor of change, but please don't change too often. Those of us with powerfull computer (ie 680XX) use automatic logon scripts that enter passwords etc automaticly. It takes several iterations before we realize the line noise is not the cause not being able to log on. The SCAN command puts out several short lines rather than one long line per file. I used to be able to read along at 2400 baud, only pausing occasionally. Now at 1200 baud (needed due to line noise this eve) I had to pause often because the display scrolls off the screen. I'd estimate the scan is about 2.5:1 slower, about the same ratio as 35 vs 80 characters per line. See you manana I hope. Leo Msg#: 5697 *GENERAL* 08/04/88 08:45:49 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: LEO TAYLOR (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 5679 (NEW SYSTEM) Glad to see you aboard again. You are quite dated. We switched to the new software back in February. I was beginning to wonder if you were still alive. I know what you mean about message scanning not being quite as convenient as before. However, the advantages of the new software far outweigh the disadvantages. Don't worry; we probably won't switch software for another two and a half years (that's how long we ran the original software). Msg#: 5785 *GENERAL* 08/05/88 23:30:35 From: JONATHAN STOTT To: LEO TAYLOR (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 5679 (NEW SYSTEM) Just a minor point. My lowly (and since shelved) commodor 64 with it's lowly 8 bit CPU also can use automatic logon scripts. -Jonathan Msg#: 5686 *GENERAL* 08/04/88 00:42:21 From: PHIL CHADWICK To: PELLERVO KASKINEN (Rcvd) Subj: FORTH FOR SB180 Reply to general 5430. Sorry so long reply but read msg while testing 1200 bps modem new to me and shook me up a little the speed. Many thanks on the 2 versions of Forth, you have saved me lots of time. Do these versions have a method and screens to create backups and extended forth disks?? Are Osborne disk formats in CP/M compatible with SB180?? Msg#: 5817 *GENERAL* 08/07/88 10:06:52 From: PELLERVO KASKINEN To: PHIL CHADWICK (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 5686 (FORTH FOR SB180) SB180 can directly handle the Osborne format. Actually, there ARE two Osborne formats, but the one generally considered is indeed built in. And the FORTH versions can write on disks, making backups and so on, but generally a whole backup process is easier to handle as normal CP/M files. You see, there are two ways of thinking. One is that the screens are absolute, with 1024 bytes in such and such sectors. The other way is to use a large CP/M file as the environment for the screens and that is the method preferred in most of the implementations I have seen lately, whether CP/M or MS-DOS. -- PJK Msg#: 5688 *GENERAL* 08/04/88 01:36:26 From: THOMAS BARNETT To: JEFF JENSEN (Rcvd) Subj: EARLY MICRO'S Boy, you really have me on that one. My projects were not quite so noble. Perhaps the most interesting was my first try at getting an 8080 up and running. No one, and I mean no one that I worked with at the Nevada Test Site had ever seen an 8080. To give you some Idea of the state of art electronics used in the communications department at NTS in 1976, we were sending intrusion and fire alarm data down 80 miles of hard wire telephone lines using diode matrix and RC time constants to create a PWM code, and decoding it with SP380 series gates. The decoded information was sent to a console with stepping motors and ten thousand 120V relays. I guess the greatest challenge is learning, being the first on the block so to speak. I ordered an 8080 from Ancorona Corp. for 34.95. It came with a circuit for a two phase clock generator, you'd have to see it to believe it. 2 2111 256 x 4 RAMs @ 5.70 ea. and a 1702A @ 15.95. A calculator keyboard from Poly Pak which I disected and made into an octal encoder using a 74148, acouple of gates and a 74164 shift register with 8 red led readout. After spending week trying to understand what an instruction set really ment, I was not brave enough to try to design an UVEPROM programer, so I penciled down a sequence of instructions I thought would work, took that with my 1702 to the boys at EGG who had such a thing as a "burner" and they programed it for me. Another three or four weeks of wiring, point to point soldering, "D" day finally arrived: turn on the power and nothing happened. It took months of fooling around to get it working just to`{y{write a{ octal by into memory and read it out again.~{ Msg#: 5729 *GENERAL* 08/04/88 19:18:29 From: JEFF JENSEN To: THOMAS BARNETT (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 5688 (EARLY MICRO'S) Yup, ain't pioneering grand! I think you had a longer row to hoe with your project due to limited resources. You can really get creative trying to figure out how to get a chip burned or even located, or how to get a crash course in op codes, etc. . . Jeff Msg#: 5735 *GENERAL* 08/04/88 21:14:52 From: THOMAS BARNETT To: JEFF JENSEN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 5729 (EARLY MICRO'S) Jeff, I still have that spirit of adventure, if the price comes within any- anything reasonable I'm going to tear into Intel's new P9 (80386SX) chip when it becomes available. Thomas Msg#: 5776 *GENERAL* 08/05/88 18:20:58 From: JEFF JENSEN To: THOMAS BARNETT (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 5735 (EARLY MICRO'S) It looks like it should be an interesting chip. I seem to remember an article that pegged the price of the P9 at $25-200 (my memory is a little fuzzy). I am tempted to poke around with an earlier 8 bit chip like the Z80 or maybe the 8031 since Steve and Co. are breaking the ice. I also just got a prototyping board for the PC and I'm scheming on what to do with it. . . Jeff Msg#: 5789 *GENERAL* 08/06/88 01:44:35 From: THOMAS BARNETT To: JEFF JENSEN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 5776 (EARLY MICRO'S) If I have to peg a favorite micro, I really like to fool around with the Zilog Z8 (Z8761) w/basic debug. I like this little guy because 1- it has a simple to use tiny basic. 2- The instruction set is simple to use. 3- The circuitry necessary to get it up and running is simple to build. 4- It will address 64K RAM (62K external 2K monitor), 64K data RAM or it could also be used as 64K I/O as long as you stay out of debug mode. This chip is easy to use and has a number of applications also the price is right. Thomas. Msg#: 5841 *GENERAL* 08/07/88 17:03:09 From: STEVE CIARCIA To: JEFF JENSEN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 5776 (EARLY MICRO'S) Just for the record, Micromint sells the Z8671 chip for $25 if you want to experiment. --Steve Msg#: 5870 *GENERAL* 08/08/88 11:41:47 From: JEFF JENSEN To: THOMAS BARNETT (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 5789 (EARLY MICRO'S) I agree with you Thomas! The idea of a micro with a higher level language and simple hardware implementation is very appealing, especially since I've spent more time working in BASIC than most any other language. I wonder how the Z8 and the 8052 micros compare with each other (the units with BASIC in ROM) as far as ease of design, power of built-in language, access to machine language calls, etc? Got any insight? . . Jeff Msg#: 5872 *GENERAL* 08/08/88 11:46:52 From: JEFF JENSEN To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 5841 (EARLY MICRO'S) Have you compared the Z8671 and the 8052AH-BASIC as far as ease of design, language, etc? Will the 8052 work with the DDT-51 project or will BASIC and pinouts get in the way? I wonder if these BASIC-based micros can still play in real-time applications since BASIC is notoriously slow compared to assembly. . . Jeff Msg#: 5890 *GENERAL* 08/08/88 21:06:54 From: THOMAS BARNETT To: JEFF JENSEN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 5870 (EARLY MICRO'S) The Z8 is really not to bad. I've used NSC 8073 and I like it too, but it is not in production anylonger, however there are still quite a few of them around and it can still be purchased. Its tiny basic is a little more complete than the Z8, otherwise they have similar capabilities. I have not tried the 8052, but my guess that it will have about the same level of power. Its a matter of what you want to do with this type of processor. Any of them would be great for control operations. The nice thing about them is their ease of use, and simplicity of machine language. Thomas. Msg#: 5913 *GENERAL* 08/09/88 10:11:06 From: JEFF BACHIOCHI To: JEFF JENSEN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 5776 (EARLY MICRO'S) . Jeff, . If you enjoy using a processor that's easy to use and also fairly complete, try the 8052! Micromint also has a CMOS version (80C52). . This little booger has a few perks over the Z8. Things like floating point math, special functions like ON TIME GO and ON INT GO, simple string handling and a built-in EPROM programmer. In the simple mode 64K of combined space or separate the spaces, into 64K of DATA space (BASIC, RAM & I/O) and 64K of CODE SPACE (MACHINE LANGUAGE). Basic and machine language subroutines are easily developed with the Optional Command Extension Package (ROMA&B). These tools, like the source code editor and full assembler can make development a breeze since all is done right on the system. Many people like developing CODE on Cross-assemblers and the 8052 will accept amd produce INTEL HEX files. . If your strickly a machine code buff, pull the EA pin low and you've got an 8031 (or 80C31). Now you can build from the ground up! . jeff Msg#: 5939 *GENERAL* 08/09/88 16:44:29 From: STEVE CIARCIA To: JEFF JENSEN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 5872 (EARLY MICRO'S) As Jeff said, the 80C52 BASIC runs rings around the Z8671 tiny BASIC (they are about equal when compared in machine language). Besides being about 10 times faster than the Z8671, BASIC-52 is easier to use. --Steve Msg#: 5948 *GENERAL* 08/09/88 19:00:38 From: JEFF JENSEN To: JEFF BACHIOCHI (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 5913 (EARLY MICRO'S) Jeff (good name!), that is exactly the insight I was looking for. Steve left a note about CCI stocking the Z8 and the 8052. I also found the Z8 through Jameco at a very low price compared to the 8052. Normally, a difference in price of 300% denotes some difference in capabilities, and this helps explain it. Thanks - - Jeff Msg#: 5949 *GENERAL* 08/09/88 19:02:46 From: JEFF JENSEN To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 5939 (EARLY MICRO'S) Thanks for the info. The 8052 looks like an ideal way to get a project up quickly and with minimum heartburn. Does it work within the DDT-51 system? - - Jeff Msg#: 6056 *GENERAL* 08/11/88 15:56:28 From: STEVE CIARCIA To: JEFF JENSEN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 5949 (EARLY MICRO'S) Yes, an 8052 becomes and 8032 (an 8031 with more memory and a 3rd counter/timer) by grounding one pin. --Steve Msg#: 6145 *GENERAL* 08/12/88 17:49:53 From: JEFF JENSEN To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 6056 (EARLY MICRO'S) Thanks, it sounds good. - - Jeff Msg#: 5689 *GENERAL* 08/04/88 01:40:26 From: THOMAS BARNETT To: BOB LAWSON (Rcvd) Subj: CYCLOPS Bob, I finally found the issue of PE, Feb. 1975, like taking a stroll down memory lane. I'll get it copied and off to you in the next day or so. Thomas. Msg#: 5940 *GENERAL* 08/09/88 16:46:01 From: BOB LAWSON To: THOMAS BARNETT (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 5689 (CYCLOPS) I received the info on the cyclops camera yesterday. Thanks, I owe you one. I got a chuckle from those old ads. Imagine an 8008 processor for $79.95! 2102 memory chips for $10! (Or 41256 chips for $15?) Msg#: 5701 *GENERAL* 08/04/88 09:15:39 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: CLAUDE SCHMITT (Rcvd) Subj: 1200BPS CONNECTION ON 203 871 198 Whether your modem would make a good project depends on a number of factors, most important of which is whether it will be FCC certified to be connected to the U.S. phone system. It would most likely have to go through a DAA, which isn't cheap. When you start talking about modems, it is often far cheaper to buy than to build (in this country, anyway). You can send the disk to Ken Davidson, Micromint Inc., 4 Park St., Vernon, CT, 06066. Let me know whether to use 360K or 1.2M format and what files you want. Msg#: 5728 *GENERAL* 08/04/88 18:56:21 From: STEVE HARRIS To: CHUCK FRYAR (Rcvd) Subj: PHOTO RESIST Chuck, I use to spray my copper clad boards with a sensitizing spray I bought from a local electronics supply store. Here is the address on the bottle, GC Electronics Rockford IL 61101 I'm sorry, there was not a street number and street listed. Steve Harris Msg#: 6081 *GENERAL* 08/11/88 20:09:24 From: CHUCK FRYAR To: STEVE HARRIS (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 5728 (PHOTO RESIST) Thanks for the info. I feel like dry resist is probably better because of the consistancy i can THEOReticly get. Thanks for the reply ++chuck++ Msg#: 6153 *GENERAL* 08/12/88 20:56:20 From: STEVE HARRIS To: CHUCK FRYAR (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 6081 (PHOTO RESIST) Chuck, Yes I agree with you. Spray resist does not yield constant results, I got better results if I left a half inch margin around the circuit. This was to give the resist a place to collect such that it would not make an uneven area over the circuit. Steve Msg#: 5733 *GENERAL* 08/04/88 19:58:12 From: STEVE DUNCAN To: ALL Subj: DIRECTIONAL MIC I am looking for info on building a directional microphone. In particular, I am interested in designs that use a single tube instead of a parabolic reflector or multiple tubes. I have found a lot of general, vague information, but nothing on actually designing or building one. Any ideas? S. Duncan. Msg#: 5751 *GENERAL* 08/05/88 01:21:28 From: ALLAN LONG To: STEVE DUNCAN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 5733 (DIRECTIONAL MIC) You might try Jason, the company that makes binoculars and ask about their single tube directional microphone which is made to attach to binoculars. I would love to hear what they say. I have one and although it is a great amplifier, the directional part really is poor. Msg#: 5736 *GENERAL* 08/04/88 21:27:43 From: THOMAS BARNETT To: JEFF JENSEN (Rcvd) Subj: EARLY MICRO'S Jeff, I don't know what happened to the rest of the message I placed here yesterday, but the missing part, repeat: when I finally applied power, nothing happened! Shock! It took several weeks before I finally was able to get the thing to write to memory and read back again. Leave your address here some time and I'll send you a copy of the two phase clock generator I used, you'll get a good laugh. Thomas. Msg#: 5777 *GENERAL* 08/05/88 18:26:01 From: JEFF JENSEN To: THOMAS BARNETT (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 5736 (EARLY MICRO'S) I would be interested in that. Have you ever seen an Ohio Scientific computer. The C2P4 that I have is 6502 based and uses a 555 timer to generate clock. One day I got creative and tack soldered a pot into the R/C circuit of the 555 and slowed the thing down from 1 MHZ to about 10 HZ. The box used BASIC in ROM and it was interesting to see how many clock cycles to execute even the simplest command. My address is : Jeff Jensen, 1702 N. 54 Street, Omaha, NE 68104. . . Jeff Msg#: 5790 *GENERAL* 08/06/88 01:56:41 From: THOMAS BARNETT To: JEFF JENSEN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 5777 (EARLY MICRO'S) Jeff the closest thing I saw to an Ohio Scientific was a picture. I've been looking all over for those old diagrams of a two phase clock, this thing used gates and R/C time constants, it was a monster. I'll find it, its somewhere. When it comes to my favorite passtime I don't throw anything away. Check this out, I have a Mostek #1 production fully operational six digit clock chip MK5017BB date 7305! Thomas. Msg#: 5842 *GENERAL* 08/07/88 17:06:13 From: STEVE CIARCIA To: JEFF JENSEN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 5777 (EARLY MICRO'S) Chips in '73 is one thing but I've got a handfull of Raytheon CK722 transistors (the first commercial transistors, for those of you who didn't know) around here some place. --Steve Msg#: 5845 *GENERAL* 08/07/88 18:07:55 From: THOMAS BARNETT To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 5842 (EARLY MICRO'S) Ok, Steve, I thought I had something with that clock chip. The next best thing I can come to your CK772 transistors is my fully operational 1952 Metz multi-band with "Seeing Eye" tube. Thomas Msg#: 5851 *GENERAL* 08/07/88 22:39:26 From: MICHAEL ARDAI To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 5842 (EARLY MICRO'S) The earliest micro I have is a complete 4040 chipset. Anyone know where I can find a 4004 these days? Anyone I ask thinks that I am looking for a CMOS chip :-} Also, anyone have any info on early (ie. tubes and neon bulbs) decade counters? I have a Baird Atomic 184 and an HP one lying around, but since I am of the IC age, I get lost trying to figure out the circuit... /mike Msg#: 5873 *GENERAL* 08/08/88 12:00:20 From: JEFF JENSEN To: THOMAS BARNETT (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 5790 (EARLY MICRO'S) Hang on to that guy. I wonder if "classic" silicon will ever have value in collector's circles? I had (as in it is deceased) a Columbia Scientific pocket calculator. It cost $100 for +-/* and SQR in 1974. The next year I bought an equivalent one for about $15 at a hardware store. Was it you who said you built an 1802 based micro? The description sounds like the same unit I built (from the Popular Electronics COSMAC Elf series). Programming that thing is a bear. . . Jeff Msg#: 5891 *GENERAL* 08/08/88 21:14:02 From: THOMAS BARNETT To: JEFF JENSEN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 5873 (EARLY MICRO'S) Steve Ciarcia had me out-gunned on the old component issue, but I intend to hang on to it anyway. I didn't build the COSMAS ELF, but I do have the orginal article. Thomas. Msg#: 5938 *GENERAL* 08/09/88 16:23:45 From: STEVE CIARCIA To: THOMAS BARNETT (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 5845 (EARLY MICRO'S) I also have a fully operational (or at least it was when I packed it up) Selbi 8008 computer that predates the Altair by a year or two. Now, of course, it is just on a shelf. --Steve Msg#: 5950 *GENERAL* 08/09/88 19:11:19 From: JEFF JENSEN To: THOMAS BARNETT (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 5891 (EARLY MICRO'S) In one of my earlier jobs, I was a technician with some spare time, so my employer sent me into all sorts of messes. One system I worked on was an envelope stuffing machine made by Bell and Howell. It was controlled by a 4040 (definately not a CMOS device) and operated in such a crummy environment, all inputs and outputs went through a Hi NIL (Noise Immunity Logic) family chip. These things ate Hi NIL parts like popcorn, and we had to trace lands around a 2' by 2' PCB to figure it out. What fun! At least the 4040 was well protected. I don't remember a single one of those going away. I tried to get one for my collection of antique microprocessors, but never pulled it off - - Jeff Msg#: 7237 *GENERAL* 09/07/88 09:25:35 From: ALAN GOLDSTEIN To: THOMAS BARNETT (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 5736 (EARLY MICRO'S) . Just to throw my two bits in.. My first computer project was from Electronics Illustrated. It consisted of a telephone dial which sent pulses through a vacuum tube buffer/amplifier to several banks of neon lights (9 banks of ten lights). Neon lights have slightly different firing voltages, so by sorting them within each row, the lights would sequence as the pulses came in. Complementary numbers were painted on the dial to enter 9's complement numbers for subtraction. The only solid state device was a 75 volt zener to regulate the low voltage power to the neons (of course the tube used B+ - about 175v for the uninitiated). My, but times have changed. Msg#: 7262 *GENERAL* 09/07/88 23:12:58 From: THOMAS BARNETT To: ALAN GOLDSTEIN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 7237 (EARLY MICRO'S) I was an ET in the Navy in the 60's aboard a mine sweeper. We had a sonar aboard labeled UQS-2, I think. I still recall the 148 6x4 trioed amplifiers used to produce part of the 100KC video signal which appeared on the screen as a 15 deg wedge. It could be rotated forward and reverse with a hand crank on the console front. I don't recall much about the rest of the console, but there were four bays of racked drawers filled with tubes of every size, shape and description one could imagine. The final power amplifier had twin tubes the size of a football with two large fans blowing directly across them. Facinating that technology has reduced that type of operation to cigar box size. -Thomas- Msg#: 7289 *GENERAL* 09/08/88 12:07:22 From: ALAN GOLDSTEIN To: THOMAS BARNETT (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 7262 (EARLY MICRO'S) . Well, at least you didn't have to worry about keeping warm on those chilly northern nights at sea. Ever try warming your hands on a 741 op amp? - it's just not the same. Msg#: 7305 *GENERAL* 09/08/88 21:27:06 From: THOMAS BARNETT To: ALAN GOLDSTEIN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 7289 (EARLY MICRO'S) I agree with that. Though I have warmed a finger a time or two when I got a TTL pluged in reverse. -Thomas- Msg#: 7452 *GENERAL* 09/14/88 12:13:29 From: ALAN GOLDSTEIN To: THOMAS BARNETT (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 7305 (EARLY MICRO'S) . That's a problem these days - no unique keying in the socket. Also back then there was B+ and Gnd; now you have to figure Vcc, Vdd, Vss, Vee, and a host of others. Msg#: 7462 *GENERAL* 09/15/88 01:09:46 From: THOMAS BARNETT To: ALAN GOLDSTEIN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 7452 (EARLY MICRO'S) That's true, I still have a couple of 12ax7 hanging around, I wonder if I could connect them as a RS flipflop? -Thomas- Msg#: 5746 *GENERAL* 08/05/88 00:16:14 From: FRANK RUFFINO To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: DIGITIZED AUDIO CD-WORM I have an application which I need to digitize LOTS of audio (100 Hrs.) and require random access to any selection. Do you know of any audio digitizers that may work with cd-worms? Are you aware of a device like a 12" video disk which can record audio only at a higher density - longer playing time than 1 Hr. The fidelity is nor real inportant. The device would be interfaced to a PC for control. Access times of 30 seconds or so would be fine. If you have any info or ideas I would appreciate it. I have long been a follower of yours in BYTE. My next task is to contact them and convey my great displaesure of your departure. THANKS ...Frank Msg#: 5758 *GENERAL* 08/05/88 09:33:25 From: STEVE CIARCIA To: FRANK RUFFINO (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 5746 (DIGITIZED AUDIO CD-WORM) It just so happens we have an audio digitizer in the works for CC INK but it is a few issues away. No details yet. We are still picking an A/D chip. What it really sounds like you need is a DAT recorder with a digital output (some do some don't). Why reinvent the wheel? Nose around and you'll find a DAT recordereven though they are not officially on sale in the US. I've had one since last January. --Steve Msg#: 5784 *GENERAL* 08/05/88 22:50:43 From: FRANK RUFFINO To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 5758 (DIGITIZED AUDIO CD-WORM) Steve, DAT would foot the bill but they only are two Hrs. long. I would need to develop some sort of shuttle mechanism to change up to 50 tapes. Is there such a device? I heard that there was an 8mm video deck that had a 24 Hr. audio only mode. If it had a random access feature I could interface it to a PC for contorl. Do you know who makes such a deck? What is the digitizing rate and byte size of the digitizer you are developing? How much storage is required per Min. of audio? THANKS for your input!......FRANK Msg#: 5836 *GENERAL* 08/07/88 16:22:45 From: STEVE CIARCIA To: FRANK RUFFINO Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 5784 (DIGITIZED AUDIO CD-WORM) Any problem can be solved if you have enough money :-) Regarding the system you want, let me know if you have about $100,000 to spend and we'll builf one for you. Yes, the technology exists to do what you want but an appreciation of the ultimate expense involved in such a task is required before we spend a lot of time configuring it. Time is precious around here. --Steve Msg#: 5749 *GENERAL* 08/05/88 01:07:03 From: DALE NASSAR To: ALL Subj: LONG WIRES I am working on a project that requires the simultaneous transmission of an analog signal (audio), two digital signals(under 1 Mhz) through 300 feet of wire. I am not an expert on transmission lines and would be grateful for any help. I would like to use common telephone wire. The system must be very interference-free and I would like to establish a common ground through the line. How should such a line be terminated? I can use RS-232 levels or whatever with conversion at either end. Thanks for any help! --Dale Msg#: 5772 *GENERAL* 08/05/88 15:27:56 From: RON WILSON To: DALE NASSAR (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 5749 (LONG WIRES) Are you sending the signals one-way or two-way? ----------------------------------------------------------------------- In either case, what you are talking about would require 2 very high frequency modems (I assume that your data rates are too high for "normal" modems). One possibilty you could try: use 2 video modulators (one on channel 3 or 4, the other on a higher channel) and 2 video demodulators modified for digital data. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Another possiblity, put boosters on your RS-232 and you could probably run 38.4 K bits up to 500 ft. (without boosters, the max speed would be more like 9600 up to maybe 300 feet) This settup would work with telephone "quad-wire" (4 conductors) - but an unshield audio wire would pick up a heck of a lot of noise. - Ron Msg#: 5780 *GENERAL* 08/05/88 21:19:01 From: DALE NASSAR To: RON WILSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 5772 (LONG WIRES) Thanks a lot for your reply--I'm going to try RS-232 boosters. now that you mention it, I think I saw somewhere an add for sending RS-232 for a mile? --Dale Msg#: 5901 *GENERAL* 08/09/88 07:54:36 From: BOB PADDOCK To: DALE NASSAR (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 5749 (LONG WIRES) Being interference-free is in direct conflicit with using telephone wire or RS-232. RS-232 is only rated for 50 feet at 20K bits per second, nothing nere the distance or speed you require. In one of the other messages in this 'thred' you said some thing about a RS-232 booster, it probably is a RS-232 to RS-423, or maybe RS-422, addapter. RS-423 is a sligtly upgraded RS-232. 423 is rated for 100k baud at 40 feet. RS-422 is good for 10M baud at 4 kilometers [Sounds awfull long for that speed?], but 422 is a balanced line system; ie. no common ground. Rather than use telephone wire, how about using 'twisted-pair' wire, as it is vary emune to induced noise. In a message here some place there is a vary good discription of 'twisted-pair' wireing. [Ken, is there any way to scan for key words, inside of messages, like 'twist'?] You can make twisted-pair wire by taking a couple of spools of wire, and winding them together with an electric drill, if you can't find any place that sells it. Some thing to be vary careful of is running 'ground' wires for great distances. While in theory 'ground' is 'ground' no matter where you are, but in the real world the wire is going to have a resistance, and there for a voltage accross it. It is not unheard of for two so called 'grounds' to to have enough voltage between them to present a electrical shock hazard. For more info on transmission lines try and find a copy of the following National Semiconductor Application Notes: AN-108 "Transmission Line Characteristics", AN-214 "Transmission Line Drivers and Receivers for EIA Standards RS-422 and RS-423", AN-216 "Summary of Electrical Characteristics of Some Well Know Digital Interface Standards". All of which can be found in N ational's "Interface, Dipolar LSI, Bipolar Memory, Programmable Logic, Databook" 1983. Msg#: 5910 *GENERAL* 08/09/88 09:44:10 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: BOB PADDOCK (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 5901 (LONG WIRES) I know, it would be a nice feature to be able to search the text of the messages in addition to the headers, but it can't be done. I agree that RS-422 is the way to go for long distances. You don't have all the grounding problems Bob spoke of when using a balanced method. Msg#: 5931 *GENERAL* 08/09/88 13:09:26 From: RON WILSON To: DALE NASSAR (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 5780 (LONG WIRES) Yes, indeed grounding can be a problem: at Purdue University in West Lafayette, IN, I once messured a difference of 57 volts between "campus-ground" and the "real" ground just outside my window - more than enough to roast a computer. Msg#: 6392 *GENERAL* 08/18/88 00:33:23 From: DALE NASSAR To: BOB PADDOCK (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 5901 (LONG WIRES) Bob, Thanks for the ap note #'s. I guess using thicker wire for long ground runs would help. I wonder about paralleling two (connections just at the ends ?) --Dale Msg#: 6394 *GENERAL* 08/18/88 00:35:02 From: DALE NASSAR To: KEN DAVIDSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 5910 (LONG WIRES) Ken--know of any good books on RS-422? --Dale Msg#: 6395 *GENERAL* 08/18/88 00:36:31 From: DALE NASSAR To: RON WILSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 5931 (LONG WIRES) Ron, I know what you mean. I've seen the sparks. -Dale Msg#: 6405 *GENERAL* 08/18/88 07:41:54 From: BOB PADDOCK To: DALE NASSAR (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 6392 (LONG WIRES) If you parrallel the grounds you might get 'hum' in your audio. Even if your ground wires are exactly the same length, they won't have exactly the same resistance or inductance, hence one if the wires will still be doing most of the work. {. It may not be your ground wire that has the potential to creat a shock hazard, but the building wireing; when you bring the ground from 300 feet away, to the other ground, that might go trough 3000 feet of wire (run all over the building), there still might be some interesting arcs. Of cource nothing at all might happen, but I always try to look for the worst cases, things can only get better from there........ Msg#: 6411 *GENERAL* 08/18/88 09:39:37 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: DALE NASSAR (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 6394 (LONG WIRES) National's Interface data book has a good summary of features and differences between RS-232, RS-422, RS-423, and RS-485. I found a really good description of the theory behind them in a data book when first researching the BCC180 board, but can't for the life of me find it now. I haven't come across any good text books about it, though. Msg#: 6433 *GENERAL* 08/18/88 12:29:36 From: DALE NASSAR To: KEN DAVIDSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 6411 (LONG WIRES) Thanks Ken, If it reappears please let me know. --Dale Msg#: 5775 *GENERAL* 08/05/88 18:19:27 From: MATT DEGANON To: KEN DAVIDSON (Rcvd) Subj: RUNNING UNIX ON PC'S Everyone seems to be coming up with near misses in this area! I've heard rumor that Bell Labs will be coming out with DOS compatable software at some point, and everyone seems to be developing transparent interfaces, etc. etc. Is there any compiled and concise info. available? I've been using UNIX system V at my office of a modem to New York, and have become completely spoiled by it. I would like to think there is something in the works that will allow me to "bring it home" without losing half the advantages. ... Much thanks to you, or anyone with information... Msg#: 5797 *GENERAL* 08/06/88 11:48:05 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: MATT DEGANON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 5775 (RUNNING UNIX ON PC'S) Don't look at me. I'm definitely the wrong one to ask. Anyone else have some info or an opinion? Msg#: 5815 *GENERAL* 08/07/88 04:19:57 From: EDDIE WHITE To: MATT DEGANON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 5775 (RUNNING UNIX ON PC'S) AT&T indeed has unix for the pc. It is available for the AT&T 6310, 6312WGS and IBM AT for the 286 and the 6386WGS with the 386. 286 machines can run unix v with a minimum of 1 meg main memory and 20 meg hard drive and handle msdos as a task. At this point Simul-Task only supports dos v3.1. This is a real-live unix v with all the whistles and bells. Msg#: 5881 *GENERAL* 08/08/88 15:28:20 From: MATT DEGANON To: EDDIE WHITE (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 5815 (RUNNING UNIX ON PC'S) Thanks a ton! That was far better than I ever hoped for. And it is those whistles and bells that I live for... May you grep the best from life. == Matt de Ganon Msg#: 5932 *GENERAL* 08/09/88 13:13:37 From: RON WILSON To: MATT DEGANON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 5775 (RUNNING UNIX ON PC'S) Micro-Port UNIX/386 with DOS-MERGE/386 with support multiple MS-DOS processes (Micro-Port was made under an agreement with AT&T and uses AT&T System V source code) Msg#: 5935 *GENERAL* 08/09/88 15:19:39 From: MATT DEGANON To: RON WILSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 5932 (RUNNING UNIX ON PC'S) Thanks! This is the second reply with equally useful info. . Matt Msg#: 5998 *GENERAL* 08/10/88 12:57:45 From: RON WILSON To: MATT DEGANON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 5935 (RUNNING UNIX ON PC'S) You're quite welcome. Good luck. Msg#: 5781 *GENERAL* 08/05/88 21:30:58 From: ERIC POOLE To: ALL Subj: Z80 / 64180 INTRPT ACK During a Z80 or 64180Z interrupt acknowledge, M1/ falls during T1, then T2 occurs followed by one automatic wait state, then IORQ falls, then another automatic wait state, then T3, and etc. My question is: If you have an external wait state generator and you insert additional wait states into the INTACK sequence, do the extra wait states come before or after IORQ falls? Seems to me from reading the book that the extra wait states come after IORQ falls, but I'm not 100% clear on it. Thanks for any help. Msg#: 5791 *GENERAL* 08/06/88 02:18:15 From: THOMAS BARNETT To: ERIC POOLE (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 5781 (Z80 / 64180 INTRPT ACK) Eric, the Z80 samples the wait imput line on the rising edge of the first clock pulse following the T2 state. If the wait line is 1 the Z80 will retreive and execute the next instruction on the data buss. If the wait line is 0 the Z80 will insert wait states until the wait line is 1. This feature makes single stepping the Z80 quite simple. You dont need much hardware, the Z80 will do all the work itself. Play around with it if you are running at 2MHZ pulse the wait line with a 500pf cap thru an inverter. You can use a switch to do this but you will have to debounce it. At 4MHZ use a 250pf. At 8MHZ 60pf. Monitor the address buss and you will be able to see the program counter advance one count at a time. Msg#: 5793 *GENERAL* 08/06/88 09:12:03 From: MICHAEL SKUCZAS To: ALL Subj: TMS34010 Has anyone done any work using this chip in a 680x0 based system? signed Michael Skuczas Msg#: 5798 *GENERAL* 08/06/88 11:49:27 From: BUDDY PRICE To: ALL Subj: 6809 ASSEMBLER Does anyone know of an assembler for 6809 code for the IBM PC (preferably shareware). Have found one for the Apple but prefer to use IBM. I need to burn a prom for a robot which has a 6809 processor. HELP! Msg#: 5816 *GENERAL* 08/07/88 04:20:24 From: EDDIE WHITE To: BUDDY PRICE (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 5798 (6809 ASSEMBLER) Try Motorcoolers rbbs at 512-440-3733. Msg#: 5843 *GENERAL* 08/07/88 17:11:55 From: BUDDY PRICE To: EDDIE WHITE (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 5816 (6809 ASSEMBLER) Thanks. I'll give it a try and see if they have it. Thanks for the help. B. Price Msg#: 5805 *GENERAL* 08/06/88 19:59:17 From: JOHN COOK To: ALL USERS Subj: DATA SHEETS Can someone lend a hand here? I built the RS-232 monitor control system in last month's Radio Electronics and im in need of data on one of the chips. I need info on the 1488 line driver chip, mainly cause mine must be miswired or something since it gets roasting hot whenever i power it up. This is in the adaptor module between the computer port and the first node in the system. Ive already replaced the chip onece and i dont feel like roasting any more, any help would be much appreciated. many thanks, John C. Msg#: 5827 *GENERAL* 08/07/88 11:29:27 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: JOHN COOK (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 5805 (DATA SHEETS) I suppose we have that data around here somewhere... 1: Vee (-5V to -15V) 14: Vcc (+5V to +15V) 2: Input A 13: Input D1 3: Output A 12: Input D2 4: Input B1 11: Output D 5: Input B2 10: Input C1 6: Output B 9: Input C2 7: Ground 8: Output C When there are two inputs to a section, they are usually tied together. I do find it interesting that when there is a problem with a Radio Electronics project, people come running to the Circuit Cellar. I don't see Radio Electronics running a BBS to answer questions about their projects. I guess they'd be so inundated with people's problems that they'd never get a magazine out. ;-) By the way, scheduled for the fifth issue of INK is the start of a "Chip Tips" column by Jeff Bachiochi, and the first one deals with different RS-232 chips, including the 1488. If you haven't subscribed to INK yet, may I suggest it? Msg#: 5883 *GENERAL* 08/08/88 16:52:20 From: MIKE DINGELDEY To: JOHN COOK (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 5805 (DATA SHEETS) well, if you get a few bucks, try purchasing (or getting it free from a sales rep) the National Semiconductor "INTERFACE, BIPOLAR LSI, BIPOLAR MEMORY, PROGRAMMABLE LOGIC" data book. It has alot of good info in it, and when I was in school, it saved my behind more than a few times..... (by the way...it is a 1983 book. I have just the INTERFACE book at home...don't know if they come all mashed together anymore...) Msg#: 5969 *GENERAL* 08/10/88 00:32:46 From: RICHARD OESTERLE To: JOHN COOK (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 5805 (DATA SHEETS) John, I suggest you also call the Radio Electronics BBS at 516-293-2283. You can reach the author of the article you mentioned. Also there is a message on that board regarding some typos in that article. Richie Msg#: 6189 *GENERAL* 08/13/88 03:34:40 From: JOHN COOK To: KEN DAVIDSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 5827 (DATA SHEETS) KEN thanks a ton for the info, now wont be having roast chip for dinner. Oh, by the way, R-E does have a BBS but its in Long Island and a call to circuit cellar is cheaper (not to mention better). -John Msg#: 5811 *GENERAL* 08/06/88 23:04:05 From: STEVE HARRIS To: ALL Subj: DRAMS All, Does anyone know of a good, modern dynamic ram controller for either 256K or 1Mbit DRAMS. Also, does anyone know where I can find out the exact procedure for accessing a DRAM via the CAS and RAS lines. I have done some experimenting with the ideas of address, cas, address again, then RAS, but I have only had limited success. No one can give me a straight story on DRAMS, everyone I talk to avoids them like they plauge. Any help would be appreciated. Thank you. Steve Harris Msg#: 5818 *GENERAL* 08/07/88 10:23:13 From: PELLERVO KASKINEN To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: FORTH ENGINES Sorry I come up with the information in a piecemeal fashion. But I am not like Bob Paddock in remembering where it is ;-) This time I have the address that I actually tried to provide the very first time. It is for Chuck Moore himself --- Chuck Moore's Computer Cowboys 410 Star Hill Road Woodside, CA 94062 tel. 415-851-4362 I hope you remember that this is the place for the very fast computers, some of which do away with disk controllers as needless pieces of hardware and some have run Mandelbrot programs too fast to be funny to watch. -- PJK Msg#: 5819 *GENERAL* 08/07/88 10:29:33 From: BRIAN JOSEPH To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: CC PROJECT BOOKS Steve, I've just spent the past three days cleaning up my rooms and I really would like to trash my back issues of Byte. Keeping 6+ years of Byte just for YOUR articles seems silly! I was wondering how I could purchase all of the CC books?? A couple of years ago, I did get vol III, but I haven't seen the rest. Also, will there be a final book with the projects up till December '88? Also, I never receved a reply from that guy who calls himself the editor of Byte. He (or his staff!) must have circular filed all of our letters! What a shame!!! Thanks! Brian. Msg#: 5828 *GENERAL* 08/07/88 11:43:23 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: BRIAN JOSEPH (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 5819 (CC PROJECT BOOKS) Micromint sells all six volumes of Ciarcia's Circuit Cellar. The prices vary, so you'll have to call to get them. The order line is (800) 635-3355. Volume six covers up through June 1986. Since each volume covers about 1 1/2 years, it seems natural that a volume seven would cover July '86 through December '88, but I'll have let Steve comment on that. Very rarely will you find a magazine personally answering letters to the editor, so I'm not surprised. An exception to this was Ask BYTE. Even though the box in the magazine never promised it, every letter was answered. Now that BYTE will be taking over Ask BYTE, you can sure only the letters you see in print will receive answers. And only on the printed page, not personally. Msg#: 5839 *GENERAL* 08/07/88 16:39:59 From: STEVE CIARCIA To: BRIAN JOSEPH (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 5828 (CC PROJECT BOOKS) Ken neglected to say that both CCi and Micromint sell the books and they are sold at a discount from McGraw-Hill's list price. --Steve PS We answer our CC INK mail too. Msg#: 5820 *GENERAL* 08/07/88 10:47:11 From: BRIAN JOSEPH To: ALL Subj: TIMING ON A PC I would like to do the following things on my PC: 1. I would like to be able to reprogram the system clock so that it counts in milliseconds. This would allow me to time a pulse for EPROM programming. 2. If that is not going to work because of the amount of CPU time it would take up, can someone explain how I determine how long a software delay loop delays??? 3. I would also like to be able to determine the duration of a pulse on an input line, such as from the parallel port. This would allow me to design an EPROM programmer with a one-shot and calibrate the one-shot with the PC. For my last trick....Can someone PLEASE explain the relationship between milliseconds,nanoseconds, and seconds??? I knew my poor math would catch up to me sooner or later.....:-) Thanks much. Brian. Msg#: 5829 *GENERAL* 08/07/88 11:50:26 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: BRIAN JOSEPH (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 5820 (TIMING ON A PC) I'll let someone else handle your IBM timing questions. Ed has been doing a lot of that stuff in his Firmware Furnace column in Circuit Cellar INK plus in some of the articles he's done with Steve. One millisecond is 10^-3 (or 0.001) seconds. One microsecond is 10^-6 (or 0.000001) seconds. One nanosecond is 10^-9 (0.000000001) seconds. The reciprocals to these are "kilo" (10^3 or 1,000), "mega" (10^6 or 1,000,000), and "giga" (10^9 or 1,000,000,000). Msg#: 5963 *GENERAL* 08/09/88 23:07:49 From: BRIAN JOSEPH To: KEN DAVIDSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 5829 (TIMING ON A PC) Thanks for setting me straight on tim!:-) Brian. Msg#: 5835 *GENERAL* 08/07/88 16:15:27 From: DAVE VANHORN To: ALL Subj: Z-80 COMPUTING Who out there is still doing Z-80 type (CP/M ZCPR Z-system) computing? I'd like to extend an invitation to the Vengeance Computing BBS at (714) 546-5407. All Z-80/180/280 files, no other uploads accepted. Access is immediate and full-featured. Msg#: 5846 *GENERAL* 08/07/88 19:36:04 From: PETER HOUSE To: ALL Subj: IEEE SPECIFICATIONS I am looking for specifications on several of the IEEE Standards, RS-170, RS-232, and RS-485. Does anyone know where this information can be accessed or ordered ? if so, please leave Email to Peter House. :-) Msg#: 5914 *GENERAL* 08/09/88 10:32:30 From: JEFF BACHIOCHI To: PETER HOUSE Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 5846 (IEEE SPECIFICATIONS) . Peter, . For a complete list of publications available in the FEDERAL INFORMATION PROCESSING STANDARDS Series, write Office of Technical Information and Publications, National Bureau of Standards, Washington, D.C. 20234. ANSI, EIA, Federal, FIPS, CCITT, ISO & ECMA are all covered in the DATA COMMUNICATIONS STANDARDS by McGraw Hill. . jeff Msg#: 5848 *GENERAL* 08/07/88 19:54:15 From: MIKE KNOOPS To: ALL Subj: CP/M Can anyone help me? I'm new to CP/M, and I can't seem to figure it out. If anyone can help me, it would be much appreciated. I'm using CP/M Plus 3.0 for the C-128 Msg#: 6484 *GENERAL* 08/19/88 22:59:27 From: LAWRENCE BEARSE To: MIKE KNOOPS Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 5848 (CP/M) Mike, have you tried typing "HELP" at the prompt with the disk that has the help files on it? If you haven't yet, do it. This may help, and I hope you are using 80 column display, it is much easier! Try downloading some cpm files from here or somewhere else and see what happens with them. If you don't have the capability of downloading to a cpm disk (you don't have a cpm terminal program) then call Dave's Opus BBS at 8713791 and look at the Commodore file area. There is at least one file there for converting files from a c64/128 disk to a cpm format. If you can get a hold of Bobsterm128, then that would be even easier since the program runs from 128 mode, and can read/write to cpm disks if you have the 1571 drive. Mike, I just checked the user list for Dave's Opus and I see that you are already a caller. If you are not at normal access yet, leave me a message on Dave's Opus and I will make sure it is raised, in fact I will do it tommorrow when I do maintenance if it is not at normal level now. There is a small section with c128 cpm files there also that you may have already seen. Larry Msg#: 5853 *GENERAL* 08/08/88 01:24:55 From: MARC DIAZ To: MICHAEL SKUCZAS (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 3074 (LM334 CONSTANT CURRENT SOURCE) If you are going to use the LM334 as a constant current source, be sure to use some kind of temp compensation (NS databook shows an example). The LM334 acn also be used as a temperature sensor. Msg#: 6482 *GENERAL* 08/19/88 19:51:35 From: MICHAEL SKUCZAS To: MARC DIAZ (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 5853 (LM334 CONSTANT CURRENT SOURCE) I just recently recieved the new data sheet on the INMOS 170 CLUT and they indicate how to use it with the LM334. So I think I am covered in that respect, thanks for the reply though. signed Michael G. Skuczas Msg#: 6588 *GENERAL* 08/23/88 03:08:56 From: MARC DIAZ To: MICHAEL SKUCZAS (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 6482 (LM334 CONSTANT CURRENT SOURCE) I have never heard of that part. What is it ? I am looking for an alternative to the LM334{ Msg#: 6742 *GENERAL* 08/25/88 19:09:37 From: MICHAEL SKUCZAS To: MARC DIAZ (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 6588 (LM334 CONSTANT CURRENT SOURCE) Are you refering to my reference to Inmos or the what? signed Michael Skuczas Msg#: 5856 *GENERAL* 08/08/88 01:53:58 From: ALLAN LONG To: ALL Subj: RADIO ELECTRONICS BBS I know that someone here was having a problem with a Radio Electronics project and I thought they might like to try their (RE) bbs. Anyhow the number is 596 293 2283 . It was up a few weeks back. It is busy a lot but they should support their own projects right? Msg#: 5943 *GENERAL* 08/09/88 16:53:21 From: STEVE CIARCIA To: ALLAN LONG (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 5856 (RADIO ELECTRONICS BBS) How does the RE BBS compare to this one? --Steve Msg#: 6103 *GENERAL* 08/12/88 00:18:59 From: ALLAN LONG To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 5943 (RADIO ELECTRONICS BBS) It doesnt. I only used it once, does that say anything? You can try it although I dont know why except to get help with one of their projects. I posted the number once, it is 596 293 2283 . The two are not comparable, just kinda wondered if anyone was home when I called. Not to change the subject but did anyone find out anything on the bsr sending ir motion sensing outdoor flood lights? Msg#: 6119 *GENERAL* 08/12/88 09:03:34 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: ALLAN LONG (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 6103 (RADIO ELECTRONICS BBS) I did find the X-10 sending motion sensor in the Heathkit catalog. The description was so vague that I passed over it several times and had to be told exactly what page it was on. In its cheapest form it costs about $100, but when you can't run a wire, it can be worth it. I don't have a pressing need for one, so am going to save the $100 for something else, but it would be fun to play with. Msg#: 6185 *GENERAL* 08/13/88 01:18:58 From: ALLAN LONG To: KEN DAVIDSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 6119 (RADIO ELECTRONICS BBS) Do you think it might be useful to know how it does what it does? I have this dream of a perimeter of sensors surrounding my yard that sense motion and report back to the houe unit. Alas! Msg#: 6210 *GENERAL* 08/14/88 14:19:56 From: STEVE CIARCIA To: ALLAN LONG (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 6103 (RADIO ELECTRONICS BBS) Having a bunch of perimeter sensors can sometimes be a problem. I have such a system installed and these thing are prone to false alarms. When they just turn the lights on in the driveway we don't usually care but if it rings a buzzer that causes you to jump every time, it may not be worth it. We (Ken and I) have been collecting data on the IR sensors themselves (Phillips makes a bunch) so that we can make an intelligent motion sensor. --Steve Msg#: 6266 *GENERAL* 08/15/88 22:02:09 From: ALEXANDER SCHNEIDER To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 6210 (RADIO ELECTRONICS BBS) You might want to contact Eltec Instuments, they make a range of pyroelectric sensors, and even sell a few complete single sensor IR telescopes for passive monitoring. Alex Msg#: 6274 *GENERAL* 08/16/88 02:03:47 From: ALLAN LONG To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 6210 (RADIO ELECTRONICS BBS) Please let us know (in a Future INK) what you find out. I am very int in IR motion sensing. By the way I noticed that Polaroid has come out e out with a commercial version of one of your old projects, the rangefinder (ultrasonic) they have it in the form of a digital tapemeasure at about $29.95 Walmart price. By the way, how did you differentiate between your perimeter sensors and what do you think about the BSR sensor hook-up? Thanks......Allan Msg#: 6289 *GENERAL* 08/16/88 10:03:06 From: STEVE CIARCIA To: ALLAN LONG (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 6274 (RADIO ELECTRONICS BBS) I have no opinion on the X-10 command IR controlled lights. I prefere hardwired stuff that I know is doing exactly what I want. Each perimeter sensor is individually wired (Lot of wire around my house!). --Steve Msg#: 6297 *GENERAL* 08/16/88 12:47:36 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: ALLAN LONG (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 6185 (RADIO ELECTRONICS BBS) Sure it'd be useful. They probably use a chip from one of the X-10 control consoles to send out commands. I found in an ad for a local discount store a motion sensor/flood light combo that also sends out X-10 commands, but this one was on sale for $50. Of course, it doesn't say "X-10 commands" on it, but it says it will turn on up to four other remote lights by using "Lightmaker" modules, which is Stanley's name for the X-10 system they use in their garage door openers. Maybe I'll pick up one of them. Msg#: 6337 *GENERAL* 08/17/88 00:12:06 From: ALLAN LONG To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 6289 (RADIO ELECTRONICS BBS) Steve With all that wire you must really cringe each time a thunderstorm goes by all that lightning and stuff. I suppose if you just used sensors on "choke" points in the perimeter you could make it work with just a few Msg#: 6355 *GENERAL* 08/17/88 10:09:39 From: BOB PADDOCK To: ALEXANDER SCHNEIDER (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 6266 (RADIO ELECTRONICS BBS) What is the differance between Pezo, Pyro, and Petro electric devices? Is it just the matterial that is used? Does one 'sense' some thing better than the other? Msg#: 6817 *GENERAL* 08/27/88 10:51:02 From: ALEXANDER SCHNEIDER To: BOB PADDOCK (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 6355 (RADIO ELECTRONICS BBS) Piezoelectric means that a pressure is converted into electricity and vice versa. These are good for ultrasonic transducers and flintless lighters, because an electrical signal applied to it will make it vibrate and when struck hard enough, an appropriate crystal will supply enough electrons to produce a spark. Pyroelectric means that heat is converted into charge. These are quite sensitive and are used in burglar alarms and other things that must detect the heat of a person's body. Their disadvantage is that a current is only produced when a change of heat occurs, so pyroelectric devices are nearly useless for such things as IR viewers. I've never heard of petroelectricity (fuel oil?). Alex Msg#: 6860 *GENERAL* 08/29/88 05:36:52 From: MARK LAMPKIN To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 5943 (RADIO ELECTRONICS BBS) I,sometimes get on the RE BBS.There is no comparison.The RE BBS has lots of ham radio subscribers and not too many versed in computerese.... Msg#: 6875 *GENERAL* 08/29/88 10:25:45 From: BYRON BLAKE To: MARK LAMPKIN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 6860 (RADIO ELECTRONICS BBS) Mark, Whareabouts is the RE BBS? Phone Number? Network? Byron, KA1ILI Msg#: 6926 *GENERAL* 08/30/88 08:15:27 From: MARK LAMPKIN To: BYRON BLAKE (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 6875 (RADIO ELECTRONICS BBS) The RE BBS is at phone # 516-293-2283.There is a lot of interesting dialog to be had....Mark Msg#: 5886 *GENERAL* 08/08/88 19:01:56 From: MATT DEGANON To: ALL Subj: LA BULLETIN BOARDS Because I am limited by those nasty little greenbacks we all know (not well enough however) and love, I'm going to be limited in my use of this great little forum here. Does anyone have info. on Los Angeles BB's that I can use to supplement? Hope I'm not infringing on any of the diplomatic rules of tackful message inputing... . == Matt deGanon Msg#: 5897 *GENERAL* 08/08/88 23:13:44 From: VINCENT BONO To: ALL Subj: STATIC RAM/ S-100 DEAR EVERYONE, HAS ANYONE OUT THERE NOTICED THE EXTREMELY HIGH PRICE OF DYNAMIC RAMS? ESPECIALY THE 41256-120 CHIPS? I KNOW YOU HAVE. WELL I WAS JUST LOOKING AT A LIST OF STATIC RAM CHIPS AND NOTICED THAT A 1 MEGABYTE RAM CHIP WITH AN ACCESS TIME OF 150 NS COST ONLY $1.95! BEING A 1-BIT CHIP IT OF COURSE WILL TAKE EITHER 8 OR 9 OF THESE CHIPS TO MAKE A WORKABLE BANK, BUT AT $1.95 WHO CAN'T AFFORD A MEGABYTE OR TWO? WELL, DOES ANYONE KNOW HOW TO DESIGN A MEMORY BOARD THAT WILL USE STATIC RAMS? OR OF A BOOK TELLING HOW? WERE THERE ANY CC ARTICLES ON IT? I WOULD APPRECIATE ANY INFO THAT ANYONE CAN GIVE ME, ESPECIALLY IF IT PERTAINED TO HOW TO BUILD ONE FOR AN S-100 COMPUTER. THANX, VINCE. Msg#: 5900 *GENERAL* 08/09/88 07:25:59 From: BOB PADDOCK To: VINCENT BONO (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 5897 (STATIC RAM/ S-100) I think your list has a type-o. $1.95 would be about the right prices for some of the old 1K by ones. Do you have a part number, or manufacture name? Static RAMs are vary easy to use compared to DRAMS; basicly you just hook up all of the address, and data lines, and you have a RAM board. Of cource you need some time of address decoding, and proabaly bus buffering, but you don't have to worry about refreshing them, like you would with a DRAM. Msg#: 5956 *GENERAL* 08/09/88 20:47:56 From: VINCENT BONO To: BOB PADDOCK (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 5900 (STATIC RAM/ S-100) BOB, 1024 X 4 SRAMS ARE AVAILABLE FOR $1.49 FROM JDR MICRODEVICES, LISTED IN BYTE MAGAZINE OR THE COMPUTER SHOPPER. THEY ARE 200 NS ACCESS TIME AND LOW POWER CONSUMPTION DESIGN. LOOK AT THE LISTING AND YOU CAN CHECK OUT THE PRICES OF VARIOUS SUBSTITUTES. THEY ALL RUN BETWEEN $.39 AND $19.95 RANGING FROM 256 X 4 BIT TO 32768 X 8 BIT CHIPS. ALSO, IF YOU COULD DESIGN A WORKABLE SCHEMAT LET ME KNOW, I'M REALLY INTO TTL DRIVEN DEVICES SUCH AS ROBOT INTERFACES AND SUCH AND KNOW ABSOLUTELY NOTHING ABOUT MEMORY CIRCUITS. ALSO THE S-100 I'M TALKING ABOUT IS RUNNING A Z-80H 8MHz PROCESSOR. THANX, VIN Msg#: 5902 *GENERAL* 08/09/88 08:35:30 From: MIKE DINGELDEY To: ALL Subj: ARCHIVING QUESTIONS... Well here we go again. Last time I entered this message, ma bell intervened and i got logged out (oh well...). I have heard that there are some rather bad bugs in pk36a36, and was wondering if anyone could point out any problems/pecuilarities that they have had with the program. We have a "license", and are currently running pk35a35, and want to change to pk36, but in light of this information, I would like to know as much as possible before we go and shoot ourselves in the foot.... Any info would be greatly appreciated. Msg#: 5955 *GENERAL* 08/09/88 20:46:25 From: ANDREAS DESSOFF To: THOMAS BARNETT (Rcvd) Subj: V20 DOCUMENTATION Tom, as promised, it went out today. I am sending you the whole V20 part of the manual except for the electrical specifications (which you said you had). Good Luck! Notice that to enter 8080 mode you need to set aside an interrupt vector as the BRKEM instruction that switches mode works just like an INT n instruction - it saves the flags, the PC and CS on the stack and then loads a new interrupt vector, the number of which is specified with the BRKEM instruction. Since this took me a while to figur out I thought that I'd save you some time by telling you up front. Msg#: 5960 *GENERAL* 08/09/88 21:49:59 From: THOMAS BARNETT To: ANDREAS DESSOFF (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 5955 (V20 DOCUMENTATION) Thanks, Andy. I tried what you gave me and got it into the emulation mode. I am going to waite for the rest of the info before I start burning Eproms. Thomas. Msg#: 5958 *GENERAL* 08/09/88 21:02:00 From: LEO TAYLOR To: JONATHAN STOTT (Rcvd) Subj: LOWLY 8 BITTERS I use my lowly SWTP 6800 (circa 1976) at least a few times per week! I had a MODEM program for it with scripts, but now use a C program Bob Meister and I wrote (no scripts but fun to use). The ATARI 68000 has dozens of MODEM programs, amny with scripts, conditionals redial, scann BBSs etc. Msg#: 6102 *GENERAL* 08/12/88 00:06:06 From: JONATHAN STOTT To: LEO TAYLOR (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 5958 (LOWLY 8 BITTERS) I was commenting on the 680x0's not the 8 bits. I loved my 64 until the Amiga systems started coming out. I just wanted to point out that a fancy CPU is not required to do any sort of modem work. I know someone who had a 64 based BBS with 20 megs and a 2400 baud modem that ran faster than most Fido boards on 286's. -Jonathan PS the atari with its 68000 is a 16 bit machine, like what I was complaining about. Msg#: 5961 *GENERAL* 08/09/88 22:02:19 From: THOMAS BARNETT To: JEFF JENSEN (Rcvd) Subj: 8052 PROJECTS Jeff I have been wanting to computerize the dash of my '80 Bronco for a while to get rid of the "idiot" lights. Maybe some to the criteria could be: Power on safety check, brake, tail, direction light, and safety belts. Standard readout could include, speed warning, high and low beams, tail light failure, headlight failure, directional signal failure. It could also include inside, outside temperature monitor, engine temperature, oil pressure, and fuel consumption. What do you think? Z8, 8052, 8085, Z80. Pick one and lets go for it! THOMAS. Msg#: 6007 *GENERAL* 08/10/88 18:41:39 From: JEFF JENSEN To: THOMAS BARNETT (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 5961 (8052 PROJECTS) Lets do it! I don't have experience with any of them, so no problem. At the outset, I suggest a microcontroller until we overwhelm it. We want something in CMOS for power consumption and maybe supply voltage tolerance. It may have to be a MIL part because of temperature ranges (from -25F to above 130F inside the vehicle). Timing becomes interesting with those kinds of temperature ranges. Crystal?, TTL inverter?, 555 and some low-coefficent caps and resistors? Or does a stable clock matter that much. If we avoid timing loop based software, we could duck that problem for now. As far as the real world interface, lets take that one type of problem at a time (filament testing, temperature sensing, pressure sensing, switch closure, etc). Another intere sting concept is to do the design here between us and let others chime in as we go. Design by BBS. Beats the h*ll out of design by committee in that we can take or leave ideas but at least gain the benefit of several man-centuries of experience. What do you think? I also suggest a rudimentary security system as a function. Other features for a later pass at this would be trip meters, timers (oops, timing problems), ETA calculation, MPG calculation, service interval tracking, etc. What about target vehicles? Make the I/O circuitry to uProcessor interface as generic as possible, so Ford and Chevy and Toyota owners can play? What about modularity of function? One wants security only, another wants safety testing, and another wants full boat. - - Jeff Msg#: 6017 *GENERAL* 08/11/88 00:00:55 From: THOMAS BARNETT To: JEFF JENSEN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 6007 (8052 PROJECTS) If I can get it to say "fasten your seat belt" that would be a start. Really my ideas are a little higher than that, but I was thinking voice readout as well as alpha-numeric led or liquid crystal. I have the components for voice interface and with the serial output capabilities of the micro controllers voice interface will be a snap. Stray engine pulses from sparkplug firing are a small problem, even with electronic ignition they still get around. I built an all TTL clock and installed it in an 1970 Ford years ago and was able to get around the noise problems with good filtering. I can't remember what I did but I'll think of it. I already have an Z8, Jeff, and I think that is all the power we need. It is inexpensive, $9 at Jameco and I have already familarized myself with it. I have a copy of Steve Ciarcia's Z8 based control computer from the July '81 issue of Byte. I've changed some of the components in his design to faciliate wiring ease, but the basic circuitry works great. There should not be a need for a lot of RAM, some for stack operations and some for manipulating regesters. I also have the Zilog manual on the device as well as the Osborne micro handbook which has a good explaination of how the Z8 operates. If you don't have any of these let me know and I'll get copies in the mail pronto! My address is 4131 Baltimore Las Vegas, NV 89104, we may want to use the mail for some of this to cut down phone costs a little. I still have your address. Let me know here tomorrow what you need and we'll get started form there. Thomas. Msg#: 6050 *GENERAL* 08/11/88 13:35:46 From: JEFF JENSEN To: THOMAS BARNETT (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 6017 (8052 PROJECTS) I have an early version of the Osborne set, but I'll have to check to see if the Z8 is covered. The true Zilog books I do not have. Lets pursue two tracks on that. If you can tell me part numbers I'll go direct to Zilog for them. In the mean time, if you have a spare, I could use it. Do you want to use Steve's Z8 project as a base? What mods have you made, and would I need to duplicate the system at my end? I figure it would be good to do that, but I will probably us a prototype board if possible. Also, the output portion of the project, as you mentioned, could go a bunch of ways. I have some alphanumeric displays with about 16 characters, that we could use too. I think they're LED. We should probably prioritize what we want this guy to do, and a phone call would be a good way to do that. If you want to exchange that personal stuff, send a mailbox message. I want to know your thoughts about discussing design topics on the board and letting others comment. I ain't know rockit sientist and kan youse sum hep! - - Jeff Msg#: 6069 *GENERAL* 08/11/88 16:45:47 From: STEVE CIARCIA To: THOMAS BARNETT (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 5961 (8052 PROJECTS) I recommend the new CMOS 80C52-BASIC chip. It has the best of both worlds. It is easier to interface to than the Z8 and you can easily mix BASIC and machine language calls (hard to do on the Z8). The Z8671 is not CMOS. --Steve Msg#: 6097 *GENERAL* 08/11/88 23:27:30 From: THOMAS BARNETT To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 6069 (8052 PROJECTS) Thanks for the tip. I have not used the 8052 so I may head in both directions at once. While the Z8 is somewhat awkward in its handling of machine subroutines I have toyed with it enough (using your design) I have some idea of what it does. I don't think that CMOS package is a must. The vehicle environment is not all that hostile and I had some idea that CMOS support IC's would be ok. Anyway, I'll explore both avenues and see what happens. Thomas. Msg#: 6108 *GENERAL* 08/12/88 06:54:26 From: BOB PADDOCK To: THOMAS BARNETT (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 6097 (8052 PROJECTS) Why do you fell a vehicle environment is not hostile? You have temp ranges for -55 to 60'C, vibration, rapid humidity changes (will it work at 0.4'C condencing humidity?), limited space, limited power supply, and a high electrical noise enviornment? Sounds pertty nasty to me....... Msg#: 6109 *GENERAL* 08/12/88 08:06:43 From: DAVE MILLER To: JEFF JENSEN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 6007 (8052 PROJECTS) Most in-passenger compartment electronisc are designed to withstand -40 deg C to +100 deg C. Humidity IS a problem, but one that can easely be overcome with the right techniques. Perhaps your greatest problem will be in the ground loop, and electrical supply department, the battery/alternator system is not the clean 12 volts most people think it is (actualy it's not even 12 volts, but around 13.5) I have seen voltage spikes of 800 volts or more when the air conditioning clutch is cycled. Lots of filtering, and Isolation from ground for all your sensors/inputs is a must. I have had some small experiance with this stuff, working here at Ford, and will help, given that the information is not proprietary or confidential. Msg#: 6146 *GENERAL* 08/12/88 17:54:24 From: JEFF JENSEN To: DAVE MILLER (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 6109 (8052 PROJECTS) Dave, thanks for jumping in. I had entirely forgotten the humidity problems (it gets real damp when I go puddle jumping). It would seem pretty simple to isolate digital inputs through optoisolators, but testing filaments and other analog inputs may be a tougher problem. I also had no idea about the 800 v spikes. For a commercial product, designing for -30 to 100 C may be a requirement, but for us is it that important? - - Jeff Msg#: 6157 *GENERAL* 08/12/88 21:12:18 From: THOMAS BARNETT To: BOB PADDOCK (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 6108 (8052 PROJECTS) Bad choice of words. -Thomas- Msg#: 6345 *GENERAL* 08/17/88 07:23:22 From: DAVE MILLER To: THOMAS BARNETT (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 6157 (8052 PROJECTS) I suppose it depends on the area of the country you live in and whether you leave your car parked in the sun with the windows up on hot days or not. most electronics can handel the temperatures in the passenger compartment, but plastics may not. I have had some parts come back to me all shriveled up from some of our road tests in arizona because the wrong type of plastic was used. As for transients, a nice zener like the motorola MR2525 surge supressor will work. all inputs and outputs should handel about 60 volts. Msg#: 6386 *GENERAL* 08/17/88 21:43:43 From: THOMAS BARNETT To: DAVE MILLER (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 6345 (8052 PROJECTS) Thanks for the tip, Dave. I have got some info on automotive power supplies for micro that indicate the necessity for over voltage protection such as may occur when jumpeing or regualtor failures causing the alternator to run at full field capability. As to the plastic used I can see where that may be a problem if it has too low temp qualities. Alas, here in Las Vegas, as with other places it is not wise to leave the car windows down and unlocked you may come back to an empty parking space. But it does create some very hot interiors particularlly this time of year. Thomas. Msg#: 5962 *GENERAL* 08/09/88 22:52:06 From: MARC DIAZ To: ALL USERS Subj: STD BUS CPU has anyone ever heard of a company called Lightland Systems ? I was given a STD BUS CPU board model LSB7800 and I cant seem to find any info on this thing. Msg#: 5966 *GENERAL* 08/09/88 23:26:13 From: BRIAN JOSEPH To: ALL Subj: FREQUENCIES I would like to get a scanner. Does anyone know what freqs are allocated to the different bands? Also, I was at Radio Shack and the salesman told me that I would not be able to get a scanner that would be able to tune to the cellular freqs because it's illegal! What ever happened to '...you can listen to any radio broadcast as long as you don't repeat what you hear'? Thanks....Brian. Msg#: 5980 *GENERAL* 08/10/88 07:46:09 From: BOB PADDOCK To: BRIAN JOSEPH (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 5966 (FREQUENCIES) The "Electronic Comunication Act of 1986 (U.S.C 18 part [some thing that ends with 25, don't rember the hole number right now])" is what happend to listening to the radio. Because of ECA of 1986 it is illegal to listen to ANY broadcast not specificaly intended for public consumption, ie: AM or FM broadcast band, National Weather Service broadcasts, Time broadcasts (WWV), ect, also Amature Radio is exempt. The Cellurlar people were getting complanits about there calls not being private, and they were lossing busniss, so rather than fix the problem tecnicly, like with scrambling, then went to Congress and asked them to make radio receivers illegal to use. Note that it is not illegal to make the radio receivers (they manufactur's lobby group would have complained), nor is it illegal to sell the receivers (the retalilers, like Radio Shack would have complained), so they made it illegal for us, the general public to us them once we have legaly bot them. Of cource there was no one from the public complaining, because the public at large wasn't told (as usualy) what was going on. I realy hate it when things get political, like the rediculas price of memory parts now that politicians have gotten involved. Its bad enough having to solve a technical problem, but then you have to be come an expert on international trade aggreaments to actually get the parts to solve what ever it is your trying to do............. I can post the complete text to ECA (about 100K) if you want to read it, its good for a laugh, especialy the parts about the penilteys; $10,000 fine for setting in your living room listening to the radio......... Msg#: 5988 *GENERAL* 08/10/88 09:06:38 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: BRIAN JOSEPH (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 5966 (FREQUENCIES) Do you really want to get me started about the ECPA? It's just the start of more Big Brother tactics to restrict the average citizen from the free flow of readily available information. Can you imagine a law that says in the privacy of your own home, without intruding on anyone else's physical property, it is illegal to tune in broadcasts passing through your house using a perfectly legal radio receiver available from stores across the country? That's the ECPA (at least the offensive part of it anyway). I just bought a scanner that is capable of picking up cellular telephone conversations, so don't let the Radio Shack salesman BS you. Just because their radios have the band chopped up doesn't mean the whole industry is that way. There have been modifications published on how to modify Radio Shack's top-of-the-line scanner to restore the missing bands, so it's even possible using their radio. As long as the radio's primary purpose isn't for cellular radio reception, it is legal to build and own it. Since the cellular band is a very small portion of what any scanner is capable of, you won't find yourself the subject of too many raids. There are fewer radios around, though, that can pick up the cellular bands. The manufacturers think they have to protect poor innocent consumer. I've found a local police department using two-way radios on a frequency right in the middle of the cellular bands. If those frequencies had been cut out of the radio, I wouldn't be able to pick up a broadcast I'm legally allowed to listen to. Anyway, back to your original question. Many fire department use frequencies in the 30-50MHz range (VHF-Lo). Some use frequencies in the 130-175MHz range (VHF-Hi). And most police departments (around here anyway) use frequencies from 450-512MHz (UHF). Almost every scanner on the market gets these frequencies and they cover 95% of anything you'd want to listen to. Some add air band (112-130MHz) if you're interested in air traffic. The 800MHz band is starting to be used by some police departments, but not many. You could probably live without it. (All of the above frequencies are from memory, so the ranges might not be exact.) By the way, the purpose of portions of ECPA was to update the Wiretap Act of 1968 (of something like that) which makes it illegal to tap into telephone wire and listen to private conversations. To tap into a wire-carried conversation, you have to trespass on the telephone's property to make the connection in the first place. That can obviously be illegal. I just don't understand how our technically stupid law makers could try to extend the same notion to radio waves which travel through all of us every day. As Bob pointed out, the fix should have been to add scrambling to the phones (at a cost of only a few dollars according to magazine following the legislation). The EPCA makes it illegal to descramble a scrambled radio transmission without the originator's permission, which I can live with. Msg#: 5996 *GENERAL* 08/10/88 12:13:41 From: BOB PADDOCK To: BRIAN JOSEPH (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 5966 (FREQUENCIES) I had it all most right the "Electronic Privacy Act of 1986" can be found in U.S.C. 18, 2510 et seq. Msg#: 5997 *GENERAL* 08/10/88 12:20:07 From: BOB PADDOCK To: KEN DAVIDSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 5988 (FREQUENCIES) There was some 'Big Brother' stuff going on before ECPA. There was a scaner manufacture (Regency modle 7000?) that was going to market a scaner that had continuise coverage from 25 MHz to 1.2 GHz. Then some body told them they couldn't do it, because it covered "Goverment Frequencys" in the 300 MHz band. I never did hear the final out come of that, but if I ever buy a scaner it will be one that I can get 300 MHz on..... Msg#: 6005 *GENERAL* 08/10/88 15:08:30 From: MIKE DINGELDEY To: BOB PADDOCK (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 5980 (FREQUENCIES) but if you really want to listen, you can buy military surplus equipment and do it. a couple of people i know have, and some of the stuff that goes on is, shall we say, "interesting". Msg#: 6011 *GENERAL* 08/10/88 19:23:19 From: ALEXANDER SCHNEIDER To: BOB PADDOCK (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 5997 (FREQUENCIES) That would have been a good deal, 25 MHz straight up to 1.2 GHz. Alex Msg#: 6024 *GENERAL* 08/11/88 08:20:43 From: BRIAN JOSEPH To: BOB PADDOCK (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 5980 (FREQUENCIES) Bob, Your just full of good news....:-) I really hope that technology has not gotten to the point that the FCC could now determine what freqs I'm LISTENING to as well as x-mitting on!!!!! $10,000 fine???? I really hope that after I get my EE degree that I get a job making $100k+/yr or else I'm not going to be able to have any fun....:-)!! Brian... Msg#: 6025 *GENERAL* 08/11/88 08:29:39 From: BRIAN JOSEPH To: KEN DAVIDSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 5988 (FREQUENCIES) You mean I can't legally tap into my neighbors tele lines??????:-) These gov't BOZOs are really making it tough for us consumers to have any fun...Thank the guy upstairs that DAT copy protection got shot down!!! On the subject of copy protection, it has been my personal experience that the main reason young adults (ok, litle punks!) copy software is that they just can't afford to purchase most of it. Now that I have had a "real" (sort of!) job, I am able to purchase the software that I really use. Most of the software I have purchased I "used" before I spent $100+ on it. This way, I could know beforehand if the software was for me. In my case, I think that if I hadn't "used" the software before I bought it, then I might not have bought it at all. So, my copying software actually sold me the software!!! Brian Msg#: 6026 *GENERAL* 08/11/88 08:30:28 From: BRIAN JOSEPH To: BOB PADDOCK (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 5996 (FREQUENCIES) Where can I get a copy of the "U.S.C."? I need a good laugh....:-) Thanks....Brian. Msg#: 6031 *GENERAL* 08/11/88 08:36:29 From: BRIAN JOSEPH To: BOB PADDOCK (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 5980 (FREQUENCIES) Bob, Don't most scanners use a freq synth??? If that's the case, they probably have a MCU like an 8031??:-) If they use a standard MCU, wouldn't probably just be a matter of re-programing it to get the freqs its missing??? UH-OH, big bro says,' you better have a license to do that....'. Geeezz, If I wanted big bro looking overmy shoulder, I'd move to Russia.:-) Msg#: 6038 *GENERAL* 08/11/88 09:33:44 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: BOB PADDOCK (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 5997 (FREQUENCIES) There are several on the market now that can do that. Regency did have one that had continuous coverage from 30-512MHz, but replaced it with their TurboScan radios, which don't get the stuff between 175MHz and 406MHz. Yaesu makes a radio that covers 60MHz-950MHz, but since it doesn't get 30-50MHz, it's not particularly useful to me. AOR makes the AR2002 which receives from 25-512MHz and 800-1200MHz. So the government hasn't completely squelched radios that can receive in the 300MHz range. Msg#: 6039 *GENERAL* 08/11/88 09:40:30 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: BRIAN JOSEPH (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 6031 (FREQUENCIES) It's not quite as simple as that. You also have limitations in the analog circuits to contend with. Certain bands use AM, some use FM, some use NFM. The processors used in most radios are usually mask-programmed and impossible to get into to modify. There have been various modifications published that involve cutting diodes or resistors to restore small portions of missing bands, but it's not likely you could ever modify a radio to change it from one that receives a few scattered bands to one that receives a continuous range. Msg#: 6047 *GENERAL* 08/11/88 12:38:08 From: BOB PADDOCK To: BRIAN JOSEPH (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 6024 (FREQUENCIES) Technology is at the point that you can detect what you are listening to. All receivers have some type of oscolator that you could pick up, at a short distance. If you know the make and modle of your RX, so that you can find out it's IF freqency, then you can look with a spectrume analyyzer at the local oscolator, and determin the frequency that you are receiving on. Msg#: 6074 *GENERAL* 08/11/88 17:20:15 From: BOB PADDOCK To: BRIAN JOSEPH (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 6031 (FREQUENCIES) Its probalby more like a COP400, or some other vary cheep, I mean inexpensive, processor, with ROM, but you have the right idea. You can get a copy of U.S.C from the Supperentend of Documents in Washington DC. But you don't want it, it is humungis. I'll upload the stuff related directly to ECPA some time. Msg#: 6086 *GENERAL* 08/11/88 22:23:19 From: BRIAN JOSEPH To: KEN DAVIDSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 6039 (FREQUENCIES) I knew it wouldn't be that easy....:-) Msg#: 6087 *GENERAL* 08/11/88 22:24:33 From: BRIAN JOSEPH To: BOB PADDOCK (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 6047 (FREQUENCIES) Is there anything a person can do that can't be detected??? I supposed that....well I won't get vulgar.....:-) Msg#: 6088 *GENERAL* 08/11/88 22:25:12 From: BRIAN JOSEPH To: BOB PADDOCK (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 6074 (FREQUENCIES) Thanks. Please let me know when you have uploaded the info....Brian. Msg#: 6096 *GENERAL* 08/11/88 23:02:36 From: ALEXANDER SCHNEIDER To: KEN DAVIDSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 6038 (FREQUENCIES) Are most of the transmissions in those ranges of a single modulation type? Or do you need a separate switch for AM, FM, and so on? Alex Msg#: 6117 *GENERAL* 08/12/88 08:31:51 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: ALEXANDER SCHNEIDER (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 6096 (FREQUENCIES) Yes. Most of the public service bands use FM, and the aircraft band uses AM. Most scanners know what modulation is used in which band, so switch automatically, but some let you choose the method. Msg#: 6136 *GENERAL* 08/12/88 15:45:53 From: RON WILSON To: MIKE DINGELDEY (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 6005 (FREQUENCIES) Not only is there the technology to listen to what you are listening to. The FCC uses it everywhere everyday. If US (or a state) ever passes a TV/radio tax law (like England has), escaping the "TV Taxman" will actually be harder than escaping the IRS's agents. Msg#: 6160 *GENERAL* 08/12/88 21:22:18 From: ALEXANDER SCHNEIDER To: KEN DAVIDSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 6117 (FREQUENCIES) Would the proposed scanners know what modulation to use even when they are continuously scanning from a low frequency all the way to up 1.2 GHz? Alex Msg#: 6278 *GENERAL* 08/16/88 09:23:35 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: ALEXANDER SCHNEIDER (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 6160 (FREQUENCIES) The general-coverage radios are usually the ones that include user-programmable modulation. I've never used one, so don't know how they handle the searching. My new radio has limits on the ranges that can be used during a search, so it may be the same way. It's highly unlikely that you would do a single search from 25MHz to 1.2GHz anyway. Most searches are done over relatively small regions. Msg#: 6321 *GENERAL* 08/16/88 15:53:20 From: ALEXANDER SCHNEIDER To: KEN DAVIDSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 6278 (FREQUENCIES) But you would have the capability to do searches in user-definable regions of that large band. Alex Msg#: 6636 *GENERAL* 08/24/88 02:13:24 From: STEVE SAMPSON To: BOB PADDOCK (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 5997 (FREQUENCIES) The radio is a Regency MX-7000. I bought one. AOR has a similar model (see any electronics magazine). There is no outlaw of the 225 - 400 MHz band as you suggest. Merely lack of a market. Not too many people want to listen to that stuff. It's hard to locate, and short conversations pass right on by. I'm a radar tech aboard AWACS in the Air Force, and kind of enjoy listening to military type stuff. Conversations with others shows me to be quite the exception however. The MX-7000 (and probably the AOR radio) are very slow in scanning speed. That's probably why the 7000 never sold well. I seldom search for new freqs on that radio, so it suits my needs. I have all my favorite military freqs plugged in and have a VOX type tape recorder plugged in. Then I play it back when I get a free minute (that is if I'm not listening realtime). Msg#: 6648 *GENERAL* 08/24/88 09:06:26 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: STEVE SAMPSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 6636 (FREQUENCIES) That was the prime reason why I didn't buy the AOR radio: it only scans five channels per second. With Regency selling radios that can do 40 channels per second, I'd prefer to give up a little frequency coverage and save some money to boot (I got a TS2 for just over half of what an AR-2002 costs). Msg#: 6692 *GENERAL* 08/25/88 01:40:01 From: STEVE SAMPSON To: KEN DAVIDSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 6648 (FREQUENCIES) I modified my radio to scan faster but this generated some bugs. First, the channel memory time went from days to about 1 minute (with no power). Which wasn't too big of a problem. But second, the radio developed many birdies. I ended up taking the mod out. I don't think there's an acceptable replacement on the market yet, so I'll have to suffer until then. For others: scan speed is an important quality! Like I said earlier though I weighed that against the frequency capabilities, and chose it anyway. Msg#: 5967 *GENERAL* 08/09/88 23:35:44 From: BRIAN JOSEPH To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: REMOTE TURN-ON VIA TELEPHONE Steve, Why are devices that power up a computer and associated modem when the phone rings so expensive? I really think that one could be built{okuo[j3ing using some timers and an optoisolator for maybe $20 or so. Am I missing something? All the device has to do is: 1.Wait for a ring. 2. Turn on a relay to power equipment. 3. Wait x amount of time for computer (modem) to pick up phone. 4. Wait for computer(modem) to hang up phone. 5. Wait y amount of time before turning off the relay OR have the computer turn off the relay with an output bit from serial or parallel port. Doesn't that seem simple??? I know that most of the devices I've seen monitor the CD line{from the modem, but I thought that it would be much simpler to monitor the voltage on the phone line (with the optoiswk{lfKator optisolator) so that there would be no physical connection to the computer or the modem (except for the power). What do you think? Did I miss something?? Or am I going to make my first megabuck???:-) Brian. Msg#: 5977 *GENERAL* 08/10/88 07:21:14 From: BOB PADDOCK To: BRIAN JOSEPH (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 5967 (REMOTE TURN-ON VIA TELEPHONE) You have the right idea for the hardware, the part that you missed was all of the goverment paper work for certifcation to do it legaly. FCC part 68 covers telephone interconect devices, for the U.S. Each country has it's on approval process, thats where you'll need your meagabucks, filling out all of these stupid forms........... Msg#: 6000 *GENERAL* 08/10/88 13:21:42 From: RON WILSON To: BRIAN JOSEPH (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 5967 (REMOTE TURN-ON VIA TELEPHONE) However, you could avoid the telephone interface problems in any of a number of ways - some include: Have your device listen for the sound of the ringer; Leave the modem powered-on and have your device monitor the ring indication from the modem - or, let the modem answer and then monitor the carrier detect. - Ron Msg#: 6022 *GENERAL* 08/11/88 08:11:42 From: BRIAN JOSEPH To: BOB PADDOCK (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 5977 (REMOTE TURN-ON VIA TELEPHONE) BOOOOM!!!!!! Just blow up my dreams!!!!:-) I know that it would have to be FCC certified, but if I were using it at home.......I one heard that is costs about $3k to get something certified....Does anyone know actual costs??? Msg#: 6023 *GENERAL* 08/11/88 08:17:14 From: BRIAN JOSEPH To: RON WILSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 6000 (REMOTE TURN-ON VIA TELEPHONE) The reason I wanted to get one of these devices is to turn on the power of the modem when the phone rings!!! At my office, we have a phone system that has the ability to be hooked up to a modem so that the service company can just call into to our system and reprogram it from their office. If I leave the modem on all of the time, I wouldn't need an automatic turn-on device because the phone system is on 24hrs a day! Actually, right now I turn the modem on for the service people when ever they need to use it. My problem comes from the fact that I am quitting my job at the end of August and there isn't a single person in my office that can handle turning on a modem!!!!!!:-) That's another story altogether!!!! Brian. Msg#: 6035 *GENERAL* 08/11/88 08:47:38 From: MIKE DINGELDEY To: BRIAN JOSEPH (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 6023 (REMOTE TURN-ON VIA TELEPHONE) What type of phone system do you have?? Would it happen to be Northern Telecom?? Msg#: 6057 *GENERAL* 08/11/88 16:02:04 From: STEVE CIARCIA To: BRIAN JOSEPH (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 5967 (REMOTE TURN-ON VIA TELEPHONE) Our experience with FCC certification (ImageWise, Serial EPROM programmer, SB180, etc) is that it costs a hell of a lot more than $3K. Remember only production equipment (no handwired stuff or prototypes) can be certified. You have to hope that you don't have to go back and redesign it if it doesn't pass (you test it along the way to make sure). If everything is PERFECT, about $8K-10K is a good start! --Steve Msg#: 6084 *GENERAL* 08/11/88 22:20:47 From: BRIAN JOSEPH To: MIKE DINGELDEY (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 6035 (REMOTE TURN-ON VIA TELEPHONE) No, it's a GTE Starlog.......... Msg#: 6085 *GENERAL* 08/11/88 22:22:23 From: BRIAN JOSEPH To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 6057 (REMOTE TURN-ON VIA TELEPHONE) Do you mean to tell me that if I designed something that had to be FCC certified, I'd have to rob a bank????:-) Isn't FCC certification for kits optional??? If so, why do you certify them?? Brian. Msg#: 6114 *GENERAL* 08/12/88 08:22:06 From: MIKE DINGELDEY To: BRIAN JOSEPH (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 6084 (REMOTE TURN-ON VIA TELEPHONE) oh. i was just wondering. if i understand, you want to be able to call up the room, and turn equipment on/off or listen to it. if that is the case, inmac does sell a alarm which calls a certain phone number. it has the capability to allow you to listen to the room, as well as turn things on and off (i think). you might be able to modify it to do what you want to do.... Msg#: 6134 *GENERAL* 08/12/88 15:37:14 From: RON WILSON To: BRIAN JOSEPH (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 6023 (REMOTE TURN-ON VIA TELEPHONE) If you are simply going to turn on the modem every time the phone rings, why bother truning it off at all. modems use very little power and probably last longer by leaving them on as opposed to turning the on and off each time you use it. As for other people being afraid to turn on or off a modem, just plug the modem into an outlet wired to an ordinary light switch. (surely they can handle that - I mean, who doesn't know how to operate a light switch) In any case, your original message said that you also wanted to turn a computer on and off automatically. Well, good luck on what ever solution you use. Msg#: 6180 *GENERAL* 08/13/88 00:28:00 From: BRIAN JOSEPH To: RON WILSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 6134 (REMOTE TURN-ON VIA TELEPHONE) I wanted to leave the modem on 24hrs a day, but it seems to get very warm after only a couple of hours. Then, I saw a modem --the Parrot from Novation-- that doesn't require any external power. It gets its power from the RS232 port. My problem is that the RS232 port doesn't seem to provide enough current to power it. In regards to just hooking up a switch, that doesn't help if the service guys needk{w;u94sd@a2u>O`l&gh[ykwE after hours access... Msg#: 6182 *GENERAL* 08/13/88 00:39:01 From: BRIAN JOSEPH To: MIKE DINGELDEY (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 6114 (REMOTE TURN-ON VIA TELEPHONE) I've seen the Inmac cataglog.....The device (to me) seems expensive for what it does....all I need to do is turn on a modem and keep it on as long as it is off hook(has a carrier) when the phone rings. Msg#: 7069 *GENERAL* 09/02/88 02:32:24 From: EDDIE WHITE To: BRIAN JOSEPH (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 6084 (REMOTE TURN-ON VIA TELEPHONE) If your going to connect your toy after a type approved phone switch, then you don't need to worry about fcc approval. The switch already has the approval and the protection circuits. This applies only to on-premises equipment such as the Starlog, AT&T System 75, or Northern Telcom SL-1. However, this does not apply to a central office based pbx like Centrex or Essex. Msg#: 7126 *GENERAL* 09/03/88 11:10:00 From: BRIAN JOSEPH To: EDDIE WHITE (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 7069 (REMOTE TURN-ON VIA TELEPHONE) Thanks for the info. Msg#: 5973 *GENERAL* 08/10/88 02:56:39 From: ROBERT EUGSTER To: KEN DAVIDSON (Rcvd) Subj: UPGRADED FORMAT Glad you fixed it so that we can download all the new messages from one menu selection. It makes writing a script much easier. Keep up the goood work. Robert Msg#: 5985 *GENERAL* 08/10/88 08:27:29 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: ROBERT EUGSTER (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 5973 (UPGRADED FORMAT) I don't know if I'd say I fixed it; it wasn't really broken before. Let's call it a new feature. I'm glad you like it. Msg#: 5976 *GENERAL* 08/10/88 07:03:18 From: LEO TAYLOR To: HARV WEINER (Rcvd) Subj: COMPUTER SHOW Boy did you send us to a TURKEY! Bob Meister, Bob Santa Barbara and I went to the show in Windsor. So did the fire marshall. The room was full (by the marshalls count) w8thin 15 minutes. The rest of us stood in line in the hot hallway. They let one in for each one who left, of course no one leaves when the show has just opened. When the fire marshall decided we were blocking yhe hallway, he moved the line outside in the sun. We gave up and went home. I never saw anything about who put on the show so I don't know who to complain about. The Ken Gorden shows were never like this one. There will be one in Bridgeport Hai Lai in October. Leo. Msg#: 6083 *GENERAL* 08/11/88 20:46:48 From: HARV WEINER To: LEO TAYLOR (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 5976 (COMPUTER SHOW) Leo: I'm sorry that you had such a bad experience at the computer show. I got there around 10:00, waited in the hallway for about 10 minutes, and went in. There were some pretty decent buys on IBM and other model software, accessories, books, and hardware. It was equivalent to a scaled down Ken Gordon show, and, quite frankly, I thought that it would be less crowded than it was. Apparently the beaches were too polluted, so everyone went computer shopping. I have been to 3 of these shows at the E. Windsor location, and have been satisfied with the turnout and the prices. All in all, it's not bad for $3.00 admission, and a 15 minute ride from home. Had your experience been typical of other shows, I certainly would not have recommended it to you. Once again, sorry to put you through that aggravation for nothing. Harv Msg#: 6100 *GENERAL* 08/12/88 00:00:41 From: JONATHAN STOTT To: HARV WEINER (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 6083 (COMPUTER SHOW) Something to try next time is going later. I went around 2:00 and while many dealers were low in stock, and most started packing up in a half hour, I was able to browse and pick up fliers from most of them. -Jonathan Msg#: 5999 *GENERAL* 08/10/88 13:08:47 From: JOHN MEALEY To: ALL Subj: IMSAI 8080 Hey folks, got an IMSAI 8080 box with a CPU card and a front panel. I am taking suggestions as to what to do with it. Given a good enough reason and I would be hapy to send it somewhere: (Reason being someone needs it and actually has a use for it). I probably can spring for the shipping. I bought it for $5 at some woman's house sale. It's karma must be negative because the previous owner died while working on it. (Heart attack, I think). Anyway it powers up nad seems to run. -Mealey Msg#: 6049 *GENERAL* 08/11/88 13:25:31 From: JEFF JENSEN To: JOHN MEALEY (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 5999 (IMSAI 8080) John, I am interested in your computer, but my motives may not be as altruistic as others. I collect computers, mostly orphaned types, and play with them. I have been looking for an S-100 machine for several years (I'm assuming from your description that this is an S-100 box). If you would like to talk about finding it a new home, let me know and we can exchange telephone numbers. - - Jeff Msg#: 6053 *GENERAL* 08/11/88 13:58:48 From: JOHN MEALEY To: JEFF JENSEN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 6049 (IMSAI 8080) Hey no sweat, I'm at 703-790-1722 during the day EST. I'll get a box and start the packing up....right now it is taking up space and I do not have the heart to make a planter out of it. Yes, S-100, but I think the back plane is not ****NOT**** regulated. This ***WILL**** fry most S-100 boards around these days. Yet you can change that. Priority-1 sells backplanes cheap now (30-50). Give me a buzz, or drop me an address and it's yours. /\/\ealey (well, I suppose this is to fancy) Msg#: 6144 *GENERAL* 08/12/88 17:49:13 From: JEFF JENSEN To: JOHN MEALEY (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 6053 (IMSAI 8080) John, we all gotta express ourselves--some fancy and some plain. OK, I'll give you a call on the box on Monday. Right now its 15 minutes to the weekend and I'm outta here. Take care and thank you!! - - Jeff Msg#: 6170 *GENERAL* 08/12/88 23:23:03 From: PAUL HUTTON To: JOHN MEALEY (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 6053 (IMSAI 8080) John..... If Jeff doesn't buy that IMSAI from you let me know, I've still got a few old manuals left around here from the "old" days when I almost (wish I had) built one. Went with a KIM instead. ........Paul Hutton Msg#: 6251 *GENERAL* 08/15/88 12:50:04 From: JOHN MEALEY To: PAUL HUTTON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 6170 (IMSAI 8080) Paul, I think Jeff is hot on this one, he's due to call today (8-15). If that dosen't work out I'll drop you a line. I guess the main reason I did not build one was I was in grade school at that time.... Later, -Mealey Msg#: 6340 *GENERAL* 08/17/88 00:54:01 From: PAUL HUTTON To: JOHN MEALEY (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 6251 (IMSAI 8080) John..... Hope Jeff comes through for you. Thanks.....Paul Msg#: 6015 *GENERAL* 08/10/88 23:05:03 From: ANDREAS DESSOFF To: ALL Subj: DIGITIZING PHOTOGRAPHS I am considering a project that would require digitizing photographs about size 3*5 inches, storing them and later on request printing them out on a suitable printer in color. Some loss of quality would be acceptable, but the overall result (the output print) should still look excellent (it would be a sales tool). My questions: 1) can anyone give me any pointers about what equipment is available to do the digitizing and printing, and what the approximate prize range is? What manufacturers to contact? Is there literature on doing what I need to do? 2) I assume that storage of the images (once digitized) would be on WORM type devices. I need to find out what storage capacity would be needed per image. Also, are there any video controller/ monitors available with the required quality (before printing, one should be able to inspect the image on a monitor). This should connect to an IBM PC/ PS 2. Would VGA graphics have the required resolution and color ability, or would some special display card be required? 3) What about color printers that can handle the quality? If anyone can just give me some good pointers on where to start finding out these things, I will be able to do the remaining leg work (BTW I know about the public library - I am looking for more specialized sources of information). Thank you! Msg#: 6018 *GENERAL* 08/11/88 00:32:13 From: ERIK QUACKENBUSH To: ANDREAS DESSOFF (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 6015 (DIGITIZING PHOTOGRAPHS) Take a good look at the Amiga. There are several full color video digitizers available (each with different strengths). The Amiga can display 4096 colors, it has a STANDARD graphics file format that almost every Amiga program adheres to, and the HP PaintJet or Xerox 4020 printers (which are supported by the standard printing routines) can produce very high quality color pictures. There are also a couple of data base programs that let you attach pictures to individual records. If you need IBM compatibility, the bridge card provides it (MS-DOS running at full speed in a window under the Amiga's multi-tasking operating system). A similar set-up could be put together based around a PS/2 or Mac II, but the cost would greater by at least a factor of two, and finding software to do what you need could be painful. My system has the capability you need, and it cost less than $3000, including color video camera, 2.5 megs of RAM, and color printer... Msg#: 6095 *GENERAL* 08/11/88 22:57:24 From: ALEXANDER SCHNEIDER To: ERIK QUACKENBUSH (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 6018 (DIGITIZING PHOTOGRAPHS) Very good suggestion as to the Amiga. Very nice machine, espcially for Andreas's video work. Alex Msg#: 6101 *GENERAL* 08/12/88 00:02:10 From: JONATHAN STOTT To: ALEXANDER SCHNEIDER (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 6095 (DIGITIZING PHOTOGRAPHS) If you want to forego MS-DOS compatability, you can by a complet Amiga500 system (camera, 1meg, software, all necessary hardware and a few hunderd for misc) for about $2000. -Jonathan Msg#: 6127 *GENERAL* 08/12/88 11:49:57 From: ANDREAS DESSOFF To: ERIK QUACKENBUSH (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 6018 (DIGITIZING PHOTOGRAPHS) Thank you Eric. I will do as you suggest and find out more. Msg#: 6159 *GENERAL* 08/12/88 21:21:00 From: ALEXANDER SCHNEIDER To: JONATHAN STOTT (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 6101 (DIGITIZING PHOTOGRAPHS) Yes, I am familiar with the superior performance and pricing of the A500 in particular. In fact, we argue practically every day on a local Amiga/ST BBS! Alex Msg#: 6034 *GENERAL* 08/11/88 08:46:26 From: MIKE DINGELDEY To: CRAIG OLSON Subj: INTEL MANUALS But how much did you have to pay for the silly things??? To get my manuals I had to call Calif. (The Detroit Intel office is very helpful...) Msg#: 6045 *GENERAL* 08/11/88 11:56:21 From: DARYL DUFFIN To: ALL Subj: INTEL HEX CONVERSION I need to convert an Intel (or Motorola) Hex file (as generated by the PS series of assemblers) to a binary file for the particular prom burner I am using. Thanks Msg#: 6054 *GENERAL* 08/11/88 14:10:44 From: PETER DEAL To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: LOW COST DEV. TOOLS Steve, I really enjoyed the august 88 article in byte on the 8051 development system and look forward to seeing the schematics. Being an experimenter with a little pocketbook and a big interest in building things with microcontrollers, I am always intested in seeing these type projects. Another project that would be very handy and I think could be resonably done is a PC based logic analizer. Just something that could capture bus activity and then be converted to wave forms on a PC or assembler. This would be a terrific tool and everything that is available is unaffordable to the experimenter. Msg#: 6066 *GENERAL* 08/11/88 16:26:24 From: STEVE CIARCIA To: PETER DEAL (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 6054 (LOW COST DEV. TOOLS) Curt, Ed Nisley, and I have been discussing such a project. Also, there is a digital oscilloscope in CC INK issue #5 (or is it #6?) which the author has planned to expand into a logic analyzer as a follow up project. Regarding this and a new video digitizer that Nisley and I have in the works, start looking for some CA3318 8 bit flash A/D chips. --Steve Msg#: 6242 *GENERAL* 08/15/88 10:52:38 From: CURT FRANKLIN To: PETER DEAL (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 6054 (LOW COST DEV. TOOLS) Look for an article on a low-cost digital oscilloscope in INK #5. The only possible drawback is that it uses a plug-in card for the IBM PC, but most folks can live with that, these days. Msg#: 6070 *GENERAL* 08/11/88 16:55:21 From: JOHN LAVIOLA To: KEN DAVIDSON (Rcvd) Subj: 64180 ASCI Have you had time to examine that transmit code ? Have'nt heard from you and thought I might ask. Msg#: 6137 *GENERAL* 08/12/88 15:47:58 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: JOHN LAVIOLA (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 6070 (64180 ASCI) I looked it over when you posted it and didn't see anything obviously wrong. I just don't trust C compilers. Most of my work with the chip has been strictly assembly language and I've never had trouble. If you have an assembler, try writing some small routines to test the chip. If those work, gradually add more C code until it stops working. That should at least narrow things down a bit. Msg#: 6459 *GENERAL* 08/19/88 09:10:45 From: JOHN LAVIOLA To: KEN DAVIDSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 6137 (64180 ASCI) I think you may be right. I've been drawn off to other things but when I get back to it I'm going to "disassemble" the code. I suspect that some part of a rarely seen C primitive is evaluating the characters sent to the ASCI improperly. C promotes just about everything to booleans in evaluation; since my 00 hex byte is a "false" as well... Thanks for your help and time. Msg#: 6072 *GENERAL* 08/11/88 17:03:21 From: DUMOUCHEL CLERMONT To: SYSOP (Rcvd) Subj: NEW USER I' M NEW I JUST CALL TO SAY HELLO I WOUL LIKE TO KNOW ALSO IF YOU HAVE ANYTHING ON THE 68000 MOTOROLA I OWN A 68000 SYSTEM RUNNING SK*DOS BYE Msg#: 6115 *GENERAL* 08/12/88 08:22:53 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: DUMOUCHEL CLERMONT (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 6072 (NEW USER) Welcome aboard. We don't currently have anything on-line for the 68000, but will post anything that is uploaded (as long as it's relevant to computers or electronics). Msg#: 6128 *GENERAL* 08/12/88 12:10:31 From: BOB PADDOCK To: KEN DAVIDSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 6115 (NEW USER) I can upload a MS-DOS "C" compiler that outputs 68K.Source code, and 68K Tiny BASIC, if there is any interest. I think the "C" compiler has source code, but I don't rember for sure. What kind of software support is going to go with the 68010 weather series in Ink? Msg#: 6133 *GENERAL* 08/12/88 15:36:04 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: BOB PADDOCK (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 6128 (NEW USER) I'm not sure what the 68010 software for INK holds in store. I get to see these articles one at a time, just like you (only a few months earlier). I haven't run across a description of the software yet. I suppose having those compilers on-line could be a start to rounding out the types of machines we have files for. Msg#: 6076 *GENERAL* 08/11/88 17:54:33 From: MATT DEGANON To: EDDIE WHITE (Rcvd) Subj: NETWORKING UNIX FROM A PC Since you seem to posses some knowledge on the subject, may I torture you with another question? Does the UNIX software, run from the IBM pc have the ability to network to more stations? I guess it is always possible to do it with "slave" PC's, but can you do it with a less expensive keyboard and moniter set up as is possible when running from a mainframe? . again in debt, Matt deGanon Msg#: 6918 *GENERAL* 08/30/88 02:51:00 From: EDDIE WHITE To: MATT DEGANON Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 6076 (NETWORKING UNIX FROM A PC) Unix has a terminfo file that contains a whole bunch of terminal types. (Its terminfo or term.cap or something; I don't have my books here...) Unix does not know what type of terminal you are using until it processes your login (it reads the .profile file in your directory which has your term id.) I made the mistake of listing the terminfo file one time. It quit 3 days later...... After a couple of phone calls from last week, I'm not certain that you could still get AT&T unix for the IBM pc. I got real mad when I found out that I couldn't get unix for my 6312. They are droping support of a whole bunch of machines from their line. However, there is one neat thing about doing business with AT&T, you can dial numbers till your fingers are bleeding and your ear is the size of a pancake and it won't cost a nickle. All of my numbers are stuck on my phone at work, but I had this one written down in my machine manual - so try it: 800-654-5832. I wrote it down as "Inquiry Line", so maybe that translates to "start here". Hope this helps, Eddie Msg#: 6944 *GENERAL* 08/30/88 11:04:18 From: RON WILSON To: EDDIE WHITE (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 6918 (NETWORKING UNIX FROM A PC) UNIX for IBM PC's is still available as Microport UNIX (licensed from AT&T). You can configure the PC UNIX system to put login processes on the com ports. Some vendors sell multi-port com cards and UNIX driver software for them. PC UNIX systems can be networked just like (almost) any other UNIX system. Msg#: 6079 *GENERAL* 08/11/88 18:38:58 From: GARY SULLIVAN To: ALL Subj: RAM'S Hody Ya All, I have 325 RAMS I want to dump, (sorry not sims) Ti 64k * 1 @ 150ns.. The date code is 1982, but a ram is a ram. Soooooooo I'll Trade/Swap/Sell, I gust don't have a use for them. And yes they are the ones that go into an IBM-PC etc... Please Leave Mail to:Gary Sullivan Msg#: 6614 *GENERAL* 08/23/88 16:36:39 From: GARY SULLIVAN To: CHUCK FRYAR (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 6206 (RAM'S) Well hello to Chuck on the other side of the USA... (I am in Fremont, Ca.) Sure I love the barter system....!!! Hummmm. I always need 3" disk drives. Or anything to enhance my Commodore Amiga 2000 computer ! Like a hard disk (SCSI/ST-506) of 3 inch floppy drives.. Give me a call (or give me your VOICE phone number) by voice @ *H* (415)651-1078 *W* (408)988-2300 or Leave me a mesg here. I'd love to make a deal, I've had these RAM's in my closet for too long.. 3@wu~?~?~?~?~? ???? noise on the line sorry... I have 350 64k rams...And alot ot TTL glue chips. Gary Sullivan Later Gater Msg#: 6673 *GENERAL* 08/24/88 18:24:17 From: JONATHAN STOTT To: GARY SULLIVAN Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 6614 (RAM'S) How are you on 256k, 120ns DRAM's? I sould be able to get you a good deal on Amiga drives in return (Phoenix internal or external. I'm using the external on my 500 now and they are solid drives). I want to expand my system, but not at $8-12 per chip. -Jonathan Msg#: 6089 *GENERAL* 08/11/88 22:35:27 From: BRIAN JOSEPH To: JEFF JENSEN (Rcvd) Subj: OLD COMPUTERS Jeff, I have an old OSM Zeus 4. It's a MP/M compatable machine that supports 4 users. There are 5 Z80s each with 64k of ram. The 5th one manages the 25M hard drive and the floppy. I have some software for it also. This beauty can be yours for........$250 (+shipping). Intrested? leave e-mail to me. Thanks...Brian Joseph Msg#: 6090 *GENERAL* 08/11/88 22:39:52 From: BRIAN JOSEPH To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: CCI'S ADDRESS Ok, What gives??? At the end of your August article, you give CCI's address and phone.....is MicroMint answering your phone?????! Boy, was I supprised!! Well, you said I could order your books from them as well, and I needed a 11.059mhz crystal, so I figured WHAT THE HECK! I think the proofreaders at Byte are getting lazy......:-( Brian. P.S. I realize that we are all supposed to conduct ourselves in a mature, adult manner, but I'd really like to stick to Byte some way.....I guess we'll all get ours by cancelling our subscriptions! Msg#: 6118 *GENERAL* 08/12/88 08:57:30 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: BRIAN JOSEPH (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 6090 (CCI'S ADDRESS) That's 'cause the number published is Micromint's toll-free order line. CCI doesn't officially have a toll-free line. Since the calls go through the same switchboard, though, you can usually get to CCI even if you call on the wrong line. CCI's real phone number is (203) 875-2751. Msg#: 6139 *GENERAL* 08/12/88 16:07:50 From: STEVE CIARCIA To: BRIAN JOSEPH (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 6090 (CCI'S ADDRESS) CCI rents space from Micromint and is located in the same building. Sometimes they are nice and answer our phones too. Unfortunately, we have trouble training them to say "CCI" when they answer. --Steve Msg#: 6091 *GENERAL* 08/11/88 22:45:42 From: BRIAN JOSEPH To: ALL Subj: FOR SALE.... The following items are for sale or trade: OSM Zeus 4 Multi-user(4) CP/M (MP/M) compatable with 25m hard drive and software......$250 Radio Shack Model 100 w/32k RAM, Portable Disk drive, bar code reade{, modem cable, printer cable and power supplies......$350 Digital VT-125 Color graphics terminal w/ b&w monitor.......$200 Best offer will be accepted....I am looking to trade for an EPROM programmer, Eraser, and MCU (8748/8751,others) programmer. For more information leave me a message or call me at 312-465-2242. I'm usually home in the evening. If I'm not home, leave a message and I call you back. Thanks. Brian.... Msg#: 6104 *GENERAL* 08/12/88 00:45:51 From: ALLAN LONG To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: RE BBS I guess the old eyes and fingers are getting a little uncoordinated the area code to RE BBS is 516, not 596 sorry, you might just wanta delete the response. Also concerning the frequencies series of messages, I have a list of a ton of frequencies, including all the cellular bands if you like I could arc 'em and upload or u/l to message area in ASCII just the cellular stuff since that is what was requested. Let me know. Msg#: 6120 *GENERAL* 08/12/88 09:13:26 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: ALLAN LONG (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 6104 (RE BBS) I have my onw Hartford-area list that has made the rounds, but I'd be interested in your list as well. I've never posted my list here since it wouldn't be of interest to 98% of our callers. Msg#: 6186 *GENERAL* 08/13/88 01:22:27 From: ALLAN LONG To: KEN DAVIDSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 6120 (RE BBS) Well I looked through about 30 floppys (720k) after I logged off last night so I guess I will have to call the office system and query my AT to see if I u/l'ed it there. Will get back as soon as I find it. I did find some cordless phone frequencies, 49.830 49.860 and 49.890 but not the cellular stuff. I also found a list of over a 100 government type frequencies, do you want the ul in the file area? Arc'ed? Msg#: 6106 *GENERAL* 08/12/88 01:24:59 From: THOMAS BARNETT To: JEFF JENSEN (Rcvd) Subj: 8052 PROJECTS Jeff, Steve Ciarcia feels the 8052 is the far superior controller and he probably is right. But I am not at all familar with it, I will however order one and take a look at it. If you want to do the same and study it for a while we can start in reverse with a list of functions to monitor and/or control. Type of switches and/or analog functions we need. I'll take help from anywhere it comes. And honestly there is more knowledge of Electronics here on CCBBS than I knew existed. This group of guys could design and build super computers so I know we are in the company of professional and intelligent people, I consider in a privilege to just be here on this BBS and see what is discussed. Back to the sject. Make a list and I'll do the same of what we are going after. Try to think of some ways of flagging the CPU from the source, we can worry about how to read that flag later and what to do with the info. But I think we need to gather information first then do something with it. I have some free time this weekend to spend on this thing so perhaps we can make phone contact then and get our ducks all in a row rather than taking random shots. Saturday I will be home most of the day, leave time and phone here for me tomorrow and I'll call so we can get started. -Thomas. Msg#: 6147 *GENERAL* 08/12/88 18:05:16 From: JEFF JENSEN To: THOMAS BARNETT (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 6106 (8052 PROJECTS) I have no problem with the 8052 either, since I am starting at ground zero in any case. I agree that we are in the company of America's electronics "Brain Trust". Did you read the earlier message to us about enviriL8#C@*V3xv{mental considerations in an auto. Good stuff (the information is good, the environment sucks more than I thought). I have an e-mail for you about talking on this. I agree that we need to get some specific functions identified and then figure out what it will take to implement them. If something takes 100 units of work to provide 1 unit of useable service, we may want to lower its priority. I have an Embedded Microcontroller Handbook on order from Intel (please allow 2 months for delivery ;-) ). Do you know of any Tiny BASIC in terpreters for the PC that may work to develop this stuff? I have EPROM burners, a scope and a bunch of odd-lot components for prototyping this. Another thought to keep in mind would be an article for INK about the development process and/or the final product. - - Jeff Msg#: 6121 *GENERAL* 08/12/88 09:22:47 From: LUC DE MEYER To: ALL Subj: EUROPEAN ACCESS Hello, all ccbbs users, I am a new user of the ccbbs and delighted by what i see on this bbs. as i am especially interested by the latest project (DDT-51) I will certainly call in occasionally to check for messages on this and many other subjects. This gives me a problem with cost though as I am calling from Heerlen, the Netherlands. Does anybody know if there is an alternative to get into the bbs and not have to use the public switched network which costs me three arms and as many legs ??? especially the loading-down of some of the more interesting (and long) files is sort of a problem. Is there any way that files could be copied to floppy and mailed to me (I can arrange for a U.S. address if need be... Thanks in advance for any ideas you might have... (did anyone yet consider extending the ccbbs with a european 'subsidiary' ???) You can call me at the Wall Street Journal Europe (31-45-711377) but I will study some more on the mail-facilities offered so i can improve the communications. Luc De Meyer (Heerlen, The Netherlands) Msg#: 6123 *GENERAL* 08/12/88 09:31:58 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: LUC DE MEYER (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 6121 (EUROPEAN ACCESS) Welcome aboard. We often get callers from outside the U.S., so you're not alone. Unfortunately, there is no way in besides the regular telephone network. We get so many calls into our existing four lines now that adding packet net access might overload us. We're trying to expand with the demand, but explosive expansion often leads to a pile of rubble. We don't offer files on disk, but an offer I've made to other Europeans is if they send me one or two disks with return postage and a list of files, I'll copy the files onto the disks. Please limit it to what will fit on one or two disks. For others reading this message, please note that I can't make the same offer to U.S. callers. I'd be so swamped with requests to copy files onto disks that I wouldn't get much else done. Sorry. We hadn't considered setting up a European version of the BBS for a number of reasons. What makes this board unique is the direct participation by Steve and a group intimately familiar with Circuit Cellar projects running it. There wouldn't be any way to match that with a remotely run board. If what you meant was, "How 'bout setting up a board in Europe with all the Circuit Cellar files," that would be different, but still wouldn't compare to the real thing. For now, we don't plan on setting anything up remotely. Msg#: 6140 *GENERAL* 08/12/88 17:02:30 From: TOMMY BRUSEHAVER To: EVERYONE Subj: NEW USER I have been reading Circut cellar ink sice it started, I have 2 comments 1. Why is everything in there directed toward the IBM PC instead of maybe like the SB-180 (which I have 2 of)? 2. It is a Neat as heck magazine, when Steve leaves Byte I'll stop reading it. (I haven't liked it for the last 2 yaers anyhow). 3. If all these folks keep coming up with neat projects, I'll never finish anything. (don't stop just dont tell me about them) Msg#: 6296 *GENERAL* 08/16/88 12:28:13 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: TOMMY BRUSEHAVER Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 6140 (NEW USER) On the contrary, very little published so far has been IBM PC-specific. Granted, the IBM has been used as a tool to drive some other hardware, but any computer can be used in most cases. In fact, of the 12 feature articles found in the first four issues, three have relied on the IBM to control the actual hardware being featured, one used IBM software along with software for two other processors, and the others used Apple, BCC52, 68000, and 8031. So far it's looking like a pretty even distribution (considering the weight most other magazines put on using the IBM). As for the SB180, should someone submit an article which uses it, the article would be considered for publication just like any other, and would be used if the editors approved it. Until something is submitted, though, it can't be published. By the way, why are you going to stop reading INK when Steve is out of BYTE? ;-) (Sorry, that's how your original message sounded.) Msg#: 6164 *GENERAL* 08/12/88 22:24:09 From: VINCENT BONO To: ALL Subj: 65C802 HEY ALL, I JUST BOUGHT A 65C802 CHIP TO REPLACE THE 65C02 IN MY APPLE //e. IT'S SUPPOSED TO RUN AT 4 MHz (WELL TO AN APPLE USER THAT'S ALOT!), BUT I SEE ABSOLUTELY NO SOFTWARE SPEED UP AT ALL! DOES ANYONE KNOW HOW I CAN GET THE CHIP TO RUN AT 4 MHz INSTEAD OF 1.3? APPRECIATED, VINCE. Msg#: 6199 *GENERAL* 08/13/88 15:06:56 From: ALEXANDER SCHNEIDER To: VINCENT BONO (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 6164 (65C802) On most microcomputers, the system clock (you want 4 MHz) is on the motherboard, not on the chip itself. The CPU will run at whatever speed it gets from the clock generator. In order to run at a real 4 MHz, it will require a usually complicated modification of the motherboard. Alex Msg#: 6220 *GENERAL* 08/14/88 15:08:18 From: STEVE CIARCIA To: VINCENT BONO (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 6164 (65C802) Worse than that, Vince. Even if you do crank up the clock to the processor from 1.3 to 4 Mhz, the memory and probably all the rest of your computer won't go that fast. Increasing speed 10-30% probably is achievable. More than that, and you'll be designing a new computer. --Steve Msg#: 6256 *GENERAL* 08/15/88 15:59:19 From: RON WILSON To: VINCENT BONO (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 6164 (65C802) If you want to speed up your //e, you either want an accellerator board such as the one from Applied Engineering or a special hybrid "chip" such as ZIP-CHIP or ROCKET-CHIP (ZIP-CHIP is from Zip Technologies; ROCKET-CHIP is from the company Zip contracted to design the ZIP-CHIP (ROCKET-CHIP is faster)). These chips have an on board clock and 16K byte memory cache. Msg#: 6381 *GENERAL* 08/17/88 20:41:59 From: VINCENT BONO To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 6220 (65C802) IS THERE ANY WAY TO SPEED IT UP THEN? IF SO, HOW? I'M AN APPLE USER REMEMBER? 2MHz IS HEAVEN TO ME! THANKS, VINCE Msg#: 6382 *GENERAL* 08/17/88 20:42:46 From: VINCENT BONO To: RON WILSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 6256 (65C802) WHERE DO I GET THE ROCKET CHIP? VINCE. Msg#: 6567 *GENERAL* 08/22/88 15:51:17 From: RON WILSON To: VINCENT BONO (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 6382 (65C802) I'll have to dig up the article discussing the ZIP-CHIP and the ROCKET-CHIP. The Rocket Chip is not yet released; furthermore, Zip Technologies has filed a suit against the Rocket Chip's maker claiming theft of proprietary information and patent infringement. (some of the engineers CONTRACTED by Zip Technologies were involved in the design of the Rocket Chip) Msg#: 6568 *GENERAL* 08/22/88 16:08:28 From: RON WILSON To: VINCENT BONO (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 6381 (65C802) PS Now that I have seen more of your messages.... Unless you want to hold out for the (slightly) faster Rocket Chip, buy the Zip Chip. I get you the address tomorow (Tue 23 Aug 88), but if you don't want to wait, Zip Technology advertises in A+, InCider, A.P.P.L.E., and a few others. Msg#: 6896 *GENERAL* 08/29/88 15:18:29 From: VINCENT BONO To: RON WILSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 6568 (65C802) THANX ALOT RON, I REALLY APPRECIATE ANY HELP THAT YOU CAN GIVE ME. VINCE Msg#: 6167 *GENERAL* 08/12/88 22:59:14 From: BOB WHEELER To: ALL Subj: INTERRUPT DRIVEN ASYNCH COMMUNICATION I AM IN THE PROCESS OF WRITING A COMMUNICATIONS PROGRAM. (YES, I KNOW THE WORLD IS REPLETE WITH REDUNDANT AND COPIOUS COMM PROGRAMS) I HAVE BEEN TRYING TO FIND ANY INFORMATION AT ALL REGARDING IRQ4. I WANT THIS HARDWARE INTERRUPT TO DIRECT CONTROL TO MY INCOMMING CHARACTER ROUTINE. ANY INFORMATION AT ALL WILL BE HELPFUL. I WILL CHECK BACK HERE AT THE END OF THE MONTH, OR YOU CAN CONTACT ME: BOB WHEELER EMC CORPORATION, MIS DEPARTMENT 271 SOUTH STREET HOPKINTON MA, 01748-9103 THANKS IN ADVANCE IF YOU CAN HELP. Msg#: 6168 *GENERAL* 08/12/88 23:13:26 From: PAUL HUTTON To: ALL Subj: 8751 PROGRAMMING I recently purchased an 874x programmer card for my IBM PC. This is the MCT-MP card from JDR Microdevices. Can anyone provide me with an insight into if and how I might be able to use this ro program the 8751 microcontrollers? The board does come with a software package that controls some of the timings and the applied voltages. ....Thanks, Paul Hutton Msg#: 6237 *GENERAL* 08/15/88 07:53:32 From: BOB PADDOCK To: PAUL HUTTON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 6168 (8751 PROGRAMMING) The 8751 programs more like a 27256 EPROM. Sence the 874x parts predate most of the EPROMs that are used today, they have some vary strage programing requirments. If your board can program the 27256 then you should be able to get it to do the 8751. Msg#: 6339 *GENERAL* 08/17/88 00:45:42 From: PAUL HUTTON To: BOB PADDOCK (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 6237 (8751 PROGRAMMING) Bob..... Thanks for the info. I also have the EPROM programmer card for the 27xxx series EPROMS. I'll look at the specs a little more carefully. ......Paul Msg#: 6173 *GENERAL* 08/12/88 23:34:58 From: PAUL HUTTON To: ALL Subj: SOURCE FOR 8008 CHIPS I have a MIKE 2 from Martin Research (era: 1974). Some time ago I blew the 8008 chip and would like to get another. Does anyone out there know of a source - hopefully one other than a high-priced parts house. .....Thanks, Paul Hutton Msg#: 6176 *GENERAL* 08/12/88 23:58:38 From: JONATHAN STOTT To: ANDREAS DESSOFF (Rcvd) Subj: AMIGA BBS Is this local to 203-87x-xxx or are you calling long distance. If it is local from here, what is the phone number? (I have to be careful when I'm not paying my own phone bills). -Jonathan Msg#: 6197 *GENERAL* 08/13/88 14:39:09 From: ANDREAS DESSOFF To: JONATHAN STOTT (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 6176 (AMIGA BBS) Jon, I think your message was addressed to me by mistake. I know nothing about an Amiga BBS, though I would like to find out about one, too. . . . . . Andy. Msg#: 6177 *GENERAL* 08/13/88 00:04:39 From: JONATHAN STOTT To: VINCENT BONO (Rcvd) Subj: APPLE SPEEDUP The problem may not be just with your new chip. If you have any other chips running at your old speed, with their own timing circuits, they will not go faster, and the CPU will sit and wait for them to play catch-up. I am not too familiar with apples, but this is a major reason the computers I am familiar with can not be speeded up by replacing their CPUs. -Jonathan (another thought is that what software you are using might make a difference. If it sits in a loop waiting for user input (i.e Wordprocessor s) then the computer could care less how long a period goes by, because it is just going to sit there doing nothing.) Msg#: 6183 *GENERAL* 08/13/88 00:43:35 From: BRIAN JOSEPH To: ALL Subj: POWER FROM RS232 PORT I have a Novation Parrot 1200 that draws all of its power from the RS232 port of the computer. My problem is this: the computer (actually, a phone system and/or a Model 100) doesn't seem to provide enough current to power the modem. I would like to know: 1. The phone system has a second RS232 port--could I somehow get the extra current from there? 2. For my model 100, I'd like to be able to supply the necessary power from, say, a 9V battery. Would I need a current-limiting resistor,and if so, how could I determine the value???? Thanks.....Brian Msg#: 6184 *GENERAL* 08/13/88 00:46:53 From: BRIAN JOSEPH To: ALL Subj: FM (I THINK!) INTERCOM PROBS My girlfriend has some TeleConcepts 3 line telephones in her house. The intercom built in to the phone does not seem to work correctly all of the time. Today, when it didn't work, her mother had the TV and VCR on. As an experiment, they turned off the TV and VCR and it worked! I am not sure if the intercom is FM or not. I know the cable that connects the phone to the wall jack has 4 pairs in it. Any clues or possible fixes????? Thanks much....Brian Msg#: 6187 *GENERAL* 08/13/88 01:33:57 From: ALLAN LONG To: KEN DAVIDSON (Rcvd) Subj: LIGHTNING Ken, this has probably been answered everywhere a million times but how do you protect a house from electrical problems caused by nearby lightning strikes? A friend had his alarm system, garage door opener and stereo fried a few weeks ago. Since he lives on an iron ore base hill I told him that it could've come back up the ground connection. Did I lie or what? Help is appreciated. Msg#: 6298 *GENERAL* 08/16/88 12:50:54 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: ALLAN LONG (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 6187 (LIGHTNING) Try doing a search on the subject field for strings like "LIGHT" or "MOV". There was a long discussion a few months back about lightning protection. The conclusion was that you do can minimal protection by plugging everything into the wall through MOVs and surge protectors, but nothing with stop a spike that is determined to get your equipment (short of unplugging it from the wall). Msg#: 6338 *GENERAL* 08/17/88 00:13:29 From: ALLAN LONG To: KEN DAVIDSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 6298 (LIGHTNING) guess that a lightning arrestor is just a cop with high ambitions? Msg#: 6191 *GENERAL* 08/13/88 07:06:49 From: KEVIN RICE To: KEN DAVIDSON (Rcvd) Subj: EE SOFTWARE I'm calling from California and am very interested in the EE software you have available, but I'm not excited about downloading 30 or so files long distance. Is there a way I could send you a check or VISA and you could mail me a disk or two containing the software? Please leave me a message on this board. If we can work something out, I will try to upload the software to boards in Orange county so that others will benefit also. -Thanks Msg#: 6281 *GENERAL* 08/16/88 09:34:11 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: KEVIN RICE Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 6191 (EE SOFTWARE) I'm sorry, but as I've said before, I just don't have time to copy files onto disks for people (an exception to this is for the few Europeans that have asked, but I've covered this before). We've been thinking about starting such a service sometime in the future, but it won't be anytime soon. Msg#: 6193 *GENERAL* 08/13/88 09:18:26 From: MIKE DINGELDEY To: BRIAN JOSEPH (Rcvd) Subj: REMOTE MODEM TURN-ON I don't think you want to use something that is powered off of the rs232 port. You can have some rather interesting problems, related to how much power the modem will steal from the 232 port. I know, because we have had that problem before. You really do want to use something that is externally powered. Also, am i correct in assuming that all you want to do is hang a modem out there? If so, why not get something with auto answer? We have a couple "special" lines at work that have racal-vadic 2400vp modems sitting on them, and haven't had any problems....even during rather heavy lightning strikes at the tv station which is across the street from us..... Msg#: 6377 *GENERAL* 08/17/88 19:26:27 From: BRIAN JOSEPH To: MIKE DINGELDEY (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 6193 (REMOTE MODEM TURN-ON) Yes, all I want to do is "hang a modem out there"!!! The problem is that I would like to leave it on ALL of the time! It gets VERY warm after just a couple of hours, so I figured it wouldn't be a good idea to leave{it on all of the time. If it could turn itself on and off, then it's only on when it needs to be.... Msg#: 6509 *GENERAL* 08/21/88 12:44:23 From: MIKE DINGELDEY To: BRIAN JOSEPH (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 6377 (REMOTE MODEM TURN-ON) what are the environmental conditions of the area where you will have the modem? we keep ours on 24 hours, but we have year-round bliss. (oh the joys of large computer rooms). This may be a bit simple, but how about building some type of circuit that would answer the phone, and when it did, a relay or something else would pull in, turning on the modem. I think the only problem you would run in to is if the modem did any type of self test, and you were calling from a modem. Then the carrier would get dropped. I think I have seen some type of circuit like this, and if I see it again, I will let you know.... Msg#: 6527 *GENERAL* 08/22/88 08:27:45 From: BRIAN JOSEPH To: MIKE DINGELDEY (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 6509 (REMOTE MODEM TURN-ON) Mike, THAT'S EXACTLY WHAT I'M LOOKING FOR!!! All I was going to do was take a ring detect circuit from an old issue of Poular Electronics (it uses an optoisolator) and a phone in-use monitor (uses an optoisolator to monitor the voltage of the phone line). This way, I would not need to connect anything to the modem (except for the power supply!). What I would want to do is this: 1. Count x rings. If x rings don't occur, go back to 1. 2. Apply power to a relay. 3. Wait Z time for computer to establish a connection. If it doesn't happen, goto step {. step 5. ... 4. Wait for phone-line to become idle. 5. wait for w time to allow the computer to clean up, etc....w3 6. turn off relay and return to 1. Seems simple enough...:-) I was going to try to use TTL chips, but I think the best way to go would be with an 8031 or 8048. With regards to the envrionment, the phone system to which this modem is connected is SUPPOSED to be in a room with its own A/C!! Oh well.....! I was thinking of removing the modem from its case; although it would still get warm, air would circulate better around it. The other problem is that on the weekends, the A/C is turned off!!!! Ever been in a 7th floor steam room????!! Does wonders to our Premium/286 that fully loaded with cards!!!! Thanks! :-) Brian.... Msg#: 6591 *GENERAL* 08/23/88 07:42:07 From: MIKE DINGELDEY To: BRIAN JOSEPH (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 6527 (REMOTE MODEM TURN-ON) yeah, i know what you mean about a steam room. in fact, we have a couple of multiplexors in one of the boiler rooms here. i'm still looking for the magazine that i saw that silly circuit in....(it wasn't popular electronics by the way). i'll let you know when i find it.... Msg#: 6606 *GENERAL* 08/23/88 10:00:07 From: STEVE CIARCIA To: MIKE DINGELDEY (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 6591 (REMOTE MODEM TURN-ON) I had a ring detector circuit in an article titled "Whimsibell" some time back. --Steve Msg#: 6655 *GENERAL* 08/24/88 09:58:50 From: JEFF BACHIOCHI To: MIKE DINGELDEY (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 6509 (REMOTE MODEM TURN-ON) . Mike, . Back in the old days, with my RS MODEL 1, I hooked up a 300 baud MODEM and wanted auto answer capabilities. I don't remember the product name, something like DATA xxxx or xxxx DATA, it was made by CONNESTOGA DATA. This little box plugged into the phone line and counted rings (you set # of rings with a wire jumper) upon the appropriate ring count it switched lines phone to modem by a relay. Sounds like just about every thing you need except a second relay for switching on power. If you can't locate them (they might be done the tube) I see if I can russtle up more info. . . jeff Msg#: 6194 *GENERAL* 08/13/88 09:20:31 From: MIKE DINGELDEY To: ALL Subj: BACKPLANE OF A PC-AT Could anyone point me to the best source of information for the pinouts (and possibly detailed explaination) of the backplane in a pc at? This should be for all the slots, no matter how wide. Any info would be greatly appreciated! Msg#: 6200 *GENERAL* 08/13/88 16:41:27 From: BENNIE BACON To: ALL Subj: HOME CONTROL . Ever sense I read about the Home Run Control System article in BYTE several years ago, I've been thinking 'Gee one of these days I'm going to build a home control system for my house. Well, one of those days will probably be in September. I'm basically a novice at electronics and while I can generally follow and under stand electrical schematics, I'm a little weak in theory. So I'd like to get any input if I may from anyone who can help. First, I'm planing on using an old Vector 4 computer for the CPU. It's an old Z80 Single board CPM system and has two spare modified S-100 slots ( wired for I/O data transfer only). I'm concidering building a I/O card using a S-100 prototype card with 3 or 4 8255's. My questions are: 1. Do I need to Buffer the data lines into or out of the 8255's. (I'll have a sepatate controller board outside the computer which will be connected to the new I/O board by about 30 inches of cable.) 2. If Buffer chips are required which is better: 74LS241, 74LS245 (other?) 3. Will a 8 bit ADC give enough range for temperature control (0-110 degrees F.) I'll Proba1+use the X-10 PL513 for AC control Any help or ideas on interfacing/home control would be of great help. Thanks........Ben Msg#: 6221 *GENERAL* 08/14/88 15:30:00 From: STEVE CIARCIA To: BENNIE BACON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 6200 (HOME CONTROL) If you don't mind, I'll offer my opinions too your questions: 1) Buffer all external I/O. TTL inputs are high impedance and noise with cause false triggers. 74LS240 series stuff is fine (then only that chip gets fried rather than PIA's inside the computer) but add the diodes and resistors shown in my original HCS article if you don't want the first voltage transient to cream everything. 2)It depends on your software and power requirements. 74LS240, 74HCT240, 74HCTLS240 are fine. 3)8 bits is fine for mose temperature measurement if you scale it properly. If your range is 0 to 100 degrees F then 8 bits would give you better than 1/2 resolution. However, if you need to monitor something to within a 1/10 degrees in the same range, then 10-12 bits of A/D is required (more $ too). --Steve Msg#: 6496 *GENERAL* 08/20/88 14:31:37 From: BENNIE BACON To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 6221 (HOME CONTROL) Thanks for the info Steve. I thought buffer chips would be required, but wasn't sure. .....Bennie Msg#: 6201 *GENERAL* 08/13/88 16:42:50 From: BENNIE BACON To: ALL Subj: CPM/S-100 . If anyone happens to have or knows someone who has old Vector Graphic CPM systems or boards collecting dust some where and would like to give them to a good home, please let me know. I have a Vector 5032 system and a Vector 4 and while their both working fine at this time, I'd feel better with a few spares boards (ZCP, BitstreamerII, Hard/floppy card, etc.) Also does anyone know the parallel port address on the BitstreamerII board. .....Ben Msg#: 6204 *GENERAL* 08/13/88 18:10:48 From: THOMAS BARNETT To: JEFF JENSEN (Rcvd) Subj: 8052 PROJECTS Jeff I am going to proto up a dummy box with processor and a few on ther IC's and run some tests. It does not get all that cold here in Las Vegas but now is the hottest time of the year so I can get some good temp. info. I also want to play around with a power supply design under various conditions. I have some info on the GM computer command control system. I am going to study that also to see how it was handeled. At a glance I don't see anything special. -Thomas- Msg#: 6261 *GENERAL* 08/15/88 18:17:43 From: JEFF JENSEN To: THOMAS BARNETT (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 6204 (8052 PROJECTS) The dummy box sounds like a good idea. We can probably simulate several types of sensor inputs and outputs in the shop. I would like to get my hands on a chart recorder to track the power supplied in a few vehicles. I want to order the chip tonight--we'll see if work slows down enough to get it done. Did you get my e-mail from Friday. Leave one and I can get a call to you to discuss some details. - - Jeff Msg#: 6268 *GENERAL* 08/15/88 22:11:57 From: THOMAS BARNETT To: JEFF JENSEN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 6261 (8052 PROJECTS) Jeff I have a letter in the mail on its way to you telling you what I have already on this project and some other personal items, but I think I've got the power supply problem solved. Let you know in a few days. Thomas. Msg#: 6328 *GENERAL* 08/16/88 19:48:14 From: JEFF JENSEN To: THOMAS BARNETT (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 6268 (8052 PROJECTS) OK, Thomas. I'll look for the letter. I placed an order for the 8052 and some other stuff including a Z8 with BASIC (just covering the bases). Talk to you later. - - Jeff Msg#: 6332 *GENERAL* 08/16/88 22:44:42 From: THOMAS BARNETT To: JEFF JENSEN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 6328 (8052 PROJECTS) I'll be in tough here as soon as I get the first proto up and running, I am going to make two versions, 8052 and 80C85 and see which handles the environment better, this is going to take some time with what limited free time I have between work and family. -Thomas- Msg#: 6354 *GENERAL* 08/17/88 09:58:11 From: STEVE CIARCIA To: JEFF JENSEN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 6328 (8052 PROJECTS) Excuse me for eavesdropping but if you didn't order a BASIC-52 manual with your 8052 (you'll receive an 80C52 BTW, unless you specifically state that you want an INTEL 8052AH-BASIC chip. The former is better anyway) you won't have any doc on how to use the BASIC. The BASIC-52 manual is $10 I think. Another alternative is to order a BCC52/99 pack for $39. It includes the dozen or so manuals for all the BCC boards (A/D, I/O, Serial, etc) and the BASIC-52 book (make sure on this). The schematic of the current BCC-52 is different from my original article. The current one is much improved. Finally, ever considered FORTH? There is a Z8 FORTH chip for the BCC11 that just plugs in in place of the Z8671. --Steve Msg#: 6372 *GENERAL* 08/17/88 18:36:40 From: JEFF JENSEN To: THOMAS BARNETT (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 6332 (8052 PROJECTS) I understand your time constraints, I'm in somewhat the same situation. Do you see a possibility for us to share the development load? I plan to start prototyping a board in the next few days. I am starting my work with an 8052 rather than a "C" version. - - Jeff Msg#: 6373 *GENERAL* 08/17/88 18:42:48 From: JEFF JENSEN To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 6354 (8052 PROJECTS) I did not order the manuals, and I've been sitting here wondering where I was going to get that. A brief run through Intel's liturature catalog didn't turn anything up. I hadn't considered FORTH (How about you, Thomas?). I probably feel more comfortable with BASIC for quick and dirty code, but FORTH might be quicker and easier to develop (quicker executing, that is). Is it? Thanks for the tip. - - Jeff Msg#: 6387 *GENERAL* 08/17/88 21:51:39 From: THOMAS BARNETT To: JEFF JENSEN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 6372 (8052 PROJECTS) I have already started prototyping an 80C85 version, I have not received my 8052 order yet along with a handfull of interfacing IC's. I'll keep in touch here every day or so and let you know where I am.. I'm doing this wirewrap initially and it is slow at best. -Thomas- Msg#: 6388 *GENERAL* 08/17/88 21:55:22 From: THOMAS BARNETT To: JEFF JENSEN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 6373 (8052 PROJECTS) I use Quick Basic, Turbo Prolog, and a form of C by Mix software, beyond that and Assembly I'am at a loss. But I'll give anything a try. Where do I get it? -Thomas- Msg#: 6478 *GENERAL* 08/19/88 18:13:40 From: JEFF JENSEN To: THOMAS BARNETT (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 6388 (8052 PROJECTS) That is my problem too, I'm trying to figure out where to get it. I'll see if the Intel catalog lists anything and get back to you. I met a guy in town that has done some imbedded designs with the 8051 and I'm asking him about tools, etc. every time I see him. I will probably solder this up on one of the Radio Shack 44 pin prototype boards. Somewhere I have a bunch of them. I got your mail and sent one back to you today. Have a great week end! - - Jeff Msg#: 6487 *GENERAL* 08/20/88 00:50:38 From: THOMAS BARNETT To: JEFF JENSEN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 6478 (8052 PROJECTS) Jeff have you given any consideration to enclosures? Or should we just let it hang from the rear view mirror? What about an O2 sensor for the manifold? I don't know what for but it was a thought. Somewhere we need to find some information on the computations for A/D info. There is a book called "Microprocessors take to the Road" but I was unable to locate a copy of it. Thomas Msg#: 6548 *GENERAL* 08/22/88 11:38:50 From: JEFF JENSEN To: THOMAS BARNETT (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 6487 (8052 PROJECTS) Thomas, how about if we use the glove box. Or, since I haven't worked on miniturization, the trunk. The O2 sensor would be good, how about a monoxide sensor for the passenger compartment. Back on enclosures, that should be easier to figure out when we know the size and types of connections we want to make. Do you have an author or publisher for the book? I may be able to check with B Dalton or one of the other booksellers in town. I appologize, but I spaced off the displays in the letter. I will try to get them out in the next day or two. Have you given consideration to making a PCB for this guy? I would hate to leave this wire-wrapped in its final form, both for size and reliability reasons. I know wire-wrap is supposed to be solid and reliable, but I never feel comfortable unless connections are soldered, and even then, the high vibration of a vehicle makes solder connections break. Do you have a memory map of your PCB? I would like to mirror your map so that software will be easier to swap. - - Jeff Msg#: 6574 *GENERAL* 08/22/88 22:01:47 From: THOMAS BARNETT To: JEFF JENSEN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 6548 (8052 PROJECTS) Jeff, I looked again at the source of "Microprocessors Hit the Road" and it was form a issue of Spectrum, Nov. 1980, maybe someone out there has a copy of it. I also was looking through the Intel Microprocessor handbook and on the first page they have a listing for their Automotive handbook. I don't know how I missed that one, but the order information follows: Automotive Handbook, Order Number 231792. Intel Literature Sales, P.O. Box 58130 Santa Clara, CA 95052-8130. The cost is $20.00 + local sales tax. I really beleive we will find the info we need in that handbook. Also I have a copy of Mitchell's guide to Computerized Engine Controls. It does not have much on the microprocessor end, but there are some good wiring diagrams and explaination of sensor placement and transducer information that may come in handy. I'll send you a copy of some of the drawings and you can study them to get an idea of what goes on electrically. Also I just received my 8052 and literature. I'll need some time to study this one before I start building around it. I do like the built-in basic instruction it supports. Looks like a simple one to get up and running. -Thomas- Msg#: 6615 *GENERAL* 08/23/88 18:04:23 From: JEFF JENSEN To: THOMAS BARNETT (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 6574 (8052 PROJECTS) Thomas, I also received my 8052 yesterday. I was so motivated, I wire-wrapped on the board until 1:00 am. I am starting out using Steve's wiring diagram from the August '88 Byte as a base. Any changes will be as required from that base. I plan on having 8K RAM, 8K EPROM and potentially a pair of 8255's. It seems like a bunch of I/O, but I would rather wrap it now and leave the sockets empty. I spaced off the crystal for it when I ordered, and am having a time finding one at the exact frequency. It won't be a problem unless I try to use the serial port, at least that is my estimation. Another two or three hours of wrapping and the base system should be up and running. (PS, Byte forgot to print the Vcc and Vdd connections ont the schematic, which made the first hour a cross-referencing nightmare). I may hold off on the Intel Automotive book. I just ordered another $70 worth of misc. parts and want to watch out that this doesn't get out of control. The displays are in the mail. If I get a few mi nutes, I will try to figure the pin-outs. - - Jeff Msg#: 6625 *GENERAL* 08/23/88 21:36:02 From: THOMAS BARNETT To: JEFF JENSEN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 6615 (8052 PROJECTS) Sounds like you are going to get ahead of me on this. I had a little different idea on I/O, but that's ok. I've got more (I) than (O) on mine and doing it more conventionally. I'll be interested in comparing notes. I'm still working around my 80C85 for now and do not have it finished yet. I don't know that we need the book either, but if we run out of ideas, it's there. My absolute worst in electronics is in PCB layout so I stay away form it as much as I can. When we get to that point I will force my self to sit down and play with it. At least with a CAD program I can keep erasing my mistakes. Lets give that one a wait and see approach. -Thomas- Msg#: 6652 *GENERAL* 08/24/88 09:41:17 From: JEFF BACHIOCHI To: JEFF JENSEN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 6478 (8052 PROJECTS) . Jeff, . A couple of comments. 11.0592 Mhz crystals are available from MICROMINT, this will make your 8052 autobaud rate detect properly. Send me a mailgram if you can't locate one! MICROMINT's BCC_BUS (passive backplane) was designed using the same 44 PIN edgecard connectors that you are using (RADIO SHACK's 44 pin prototyping board). If you find the need for expanding your system, you may want to wire your edge connector as the BCC_BUS, which will allow you to use standard off the shelf hardware in you design. MICROMINT also has A/D's and other peripherals which can be accessed through this BUS. . . jeff . PS - I can get you info on this BCC_BUS if you want it, just send me a mailgram. Msg#: 6674 *GENERAL* 08/24/88 19:01:19 From: JEFF JENSEN To: THOMAS BARNETT (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 6625 (8052 PROJECTS) Thomas, what are you doing as far as your project design? I thought what I am doing is pretty conventional, but I often have misguided thoughts. My scam came through! I just got the Intel Embedded Controller books in the mail and it looks like for no charge! I may go after the Automotive Devices book later, but I don't want to wear out my welcome right away. I have a few more things to straighten out on the proto board and then it should be ready to power-up. Since I don't have any BASIC documentation, it will only sit there and try to execute an empty EPROM, but I should be able to check for activity on the lines. - - Jeff Msg#: 6675 *GENERAL* 08/24/88 19:06:18 From: JEFF JENSEN To: JEFF BACHIOCHI (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 6652 (8052 PROJECTS) Jeff, I would be interested in the BCC_BUS defintions. It makes sense to build this thing to what standards are applicable, even if it doesn't apply currently. If nothing else, I can keep from painting myself into any corners. I will probably get this up on an even frequency crystal for starters and then work on the 11.0592 MHz crystal as a retrofit. Does Micromint have a full line catalog? I asked for a CCI catalog in a recent order. Do you suppose that both companies stuff catalogs in each shipment? - - Jeff Msg#: 6685 *GENERAL* 08/24/88 23:13:01 From: THOMAS BARNETT To: JEFF JENSEN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 6674 (8052 PROJECTS) Which micro are you using, Z8 or 8052? I have the basic listings for both devices. If you are using the Z8 there will be no activity on the output lines unless you are calling for or writing information to memory. The Z8 basic interpreter contained in its internal ROM uses te internal registers to operate. On reset a prompt will go out on the data TX line but otherwise it will sit there and not do much until it is told to. I'm going to breadboard my 8052 this weekend. In the meantime I am about finished with the 80C85 board for testing. One input device I am using is a 4067 16 to 1 analog input decoder. The other one is a 8279 display & keyboard controler. I wanted to initally be able to talk to the 80C85, but I probably will not use it with the 8052 version. That one is going to take a wait and see approach since I'm not familar with it at all. Also I am working on design for display using alpha-numeric 5 x 7 dot matrix for ASCII readout. Do you have any source for LCD alpha-numeric displays, that would be much better from a current point of view. Let me know. -Thomas- Msg#: 6705 *GENERAL* 08/25/88 09:40:12 From: RON WILSON To: JEFF JENSEN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 6674 (8052 PROJECTS) What was your scam? Msg#: 6732 *GENERAL* 08/25/88 18:17:58 From: JEFF JENSEN To: THOMAS BARNETT (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 6685 (8052 PROJECTS) I'm using the 8052 BASIC chip. I did receive the Z8 chip, but got it just for grins :-). I now understand your references to the 80C85 board. I was starting to wonder if we were on different projects together. At this time, I am looking at using the burn and crash approach to getting this up and running. If that proves exceptionally tedious (and I expect it to), I may build the DDT-52 post haste. I don't have any good ideas on the LCD alpha numeric displays. Maybe someone else has an idea--this is the first message I've read and there are some replies to look at. Is current in operating mode that big a deal, if you turn offxternal indications when the key is turned off? Also, LEDs are easier to read than non-backlit LCD, so we would want to back-light the display or use fluorescent/LED. - - Jeff Msg#: 6748 *GENERAL* 08/25/88 22:44:22 From: THOMAS BARNETT To: JEFF JENSEN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 6732 (8052 PROJECTS) Sorry to confuse you on micro's, I was using what I had to get started to gather some operating information. The 8085 is a piece of cake for me, I am familar with it inside and out. I plan to start on the 8052 version this weekend, at least I will breadboard it and interface it with a terminal so I can run some programs to evaluate its operation. Also I want to study the machine code functions to see what op codes do what. I think you are right about display, LEDS make more sence. By the way I got that 16 x 8 display figured out. I wonder if that is made in a larger size? Again sorry about the confusion, I did not mean to get off on a different path. Now that I have most everything for the 8052 I can proceed. -Thomas- Msg#: 6800 *GENERAL* 08/26/88 17:25:04 From: JEFF BACHIOCHI To: JEFF JENSEN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 6675 (8052 PROJECTS) . Jeff, . Use E-mail and send me your address I'll send you a care package! . jeff Msg#: 6801 *GENERAL* 08/26/88 17:37:33 From: JEFF JENSEN To: THOMAS BARNETT (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 6748 (8052 PROJECTS) I feel better now. I have a few design problems to overcome on the prototype (its hell not to have wire wrap sockets in the right size). Work and home have been a three ring circus these last few days. This weekend should let me get the prototype squared away and ready to run. I won't get far until the BASIC-52 manual arrives. - - Jeff Msg#: 6812 *GENERAL* 08/27/88 02:35:22 From: THOMAS BARNETT To: JEFF JENSEN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 6801 (8052 PROJECTS) Jeff I got my 8052 breadboarded and it is working, but I'm having trouble with the baud rate. It seems to be off slightly with my terminal. Given my terminal is 11 years old it may need some work so I've got to spend some time with it. The last time I had it interfaced with my Z8 it worked ok but 1200 baud from the 8052 and 1200 baud form my terminal are not the same. I'll find the problem eventually I hope. -Thomas- Msg#: 6900 *GENERAL* 08/29/88 18:19:09 From: JEFF JENSEN To: THOMAS BARNETT (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 6812 (8052 PROJECTS) I hate to troubleshoot from the back seat (actually I love to kibitz) but is the data word and in/exclusion of parity the same from the terminal to the micro? I will soon be faced with this problem, so let me know what it turns out to be. I have done everything but apply power to the breadboard. I plan to do that tonight. Without the BASIC-52 book, I'm stuck, though. It should be here in the next few days. I spent most of this weekend installing a couple of X-10 wall switches and working the kinks out of the system. A couple of months ago I bought one of the Radio Shack Homeminder system and decided it had been a novelty for long enough. It now controls the front and back porch lights and a light in the house. I have a couple of appliance modules to play with as well. The IR sensor floodlight is on an X-10 switch, and works too well. The street it covers has some traffic at night, so it was on most of the night until I turned it all off. Oh, well, a little fine tuning is in order. I may need to give you a call, if it is OK by you, to talk me through a couple of details on the 8052. - - Jeff Msg#: 6907 *GENERAL* 08/29/88 21:00:13 From: THOMAS BARNETT To: JEFF JENSEN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 6900 (8052 PROJECTS) Jeff, I got the 8052 running ok, but I have an intermittent someplace. It works when it wants to. I thought I had a baud problem, but while I was checking the two on an osc. scope it started working. At 9600 baud it ran smoothe as silk and then just as fast quit. As far as I can tell though the device sets itself, I've done nothing to set it at 9600 baud except reset. I also tried it at 1200, 2400, and 4800. I had the same problem, it worked when it felt like it. I also have not received my microcontrolle r manual for the 8052 so I will not be much help until it comes. I got a data sheet from Jameco that gave the basic instruction set and a few other details that were not a lot of help. Also my breadboard is old and I could have connection problems that would be near impossible to run down though I have not had the problem with other devices I've used on it. I could have a defective device, but I don't think so. Give me this week to iron out some of the bugs and I'll let you know if I get anywhere. -Thomas- Msg#: 6932 *GENERAL* 08/30/88 08:52:37 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: JEFF JENSEN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 6900 (8052 PROJECTS) Speaking of the X-10 IR motion sensor, Stanley sells the same unit through retail stores for half of what Heathkit charges ($50 on sale as opposed to $100). We've picked several up, but I haven't had a chance to play with it, yet. Looks like a nifty unit. Msg#: 6983 *GENERAL* 08/31/88 09:31:42 From: JEFF JENSEN To: THOMAS BARNETT (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 6907 (8052 PROJECTS) Oh, boy, intermittent bugs on a relatively undocumented system. Didn't we meet up here discussing real men and micros? I have faith in your troubleshooting skills. If you want to kick it around in real time, just call. From a couple of messages here on the board, it sounds like the 8052 will auto adjust baud rate when used with an 11.059.... xtal. By the way, what freq. crystal are you using? My boss is leaving the company, so I have been busy picking up some tasks and going to farewell parties. The net result of that is I have spent no time on the project lately. I too will need a few days to get the kinks worked out. Keep smiling. It confuses the "frustration detector" in the circuit. - - Jeff Msg#: 6984 *GENERAL* 08/31/88 09:35:16 From: JEFF JENSEN To: KEN DAVIDSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 6932 (8052 PROJECTS) I thought I saw an ad for a unit like that, but wrote it off to marketing hype. Last weekend I installed some X-10 stuff and I'm really pleased with its performance. Came home last night after the rest of the family went to bed. Front and back porch lights were on and the IR lit up the driveway and walk as I drove in. It was great. Now what else can I put on the system......? - - Jeff Msg#: 6989 *GENERAL* 08/31/88 10:20:56 From: STEVE CIARCIA To: THOMAS BARNETT (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 6907 (8052 PROJECTS) The 8052 has auto baud rate sensing. The first character after a reset MUST be a character to set baud rate otherwise is will get all screwed up. Sounds like you need the BASIC-52 manual. --Steve Msg#: 7018 *GENERAL* 08/31/88 20:51:28 From: THOMAS BARNETT To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 6989 (8052 PROJECTS) Thanks for that one. Its amazing how the simplest things make something work correctly. I could use the Basic-52 manual, I didn't see it in the Micromint catalog. What is the order # and how much? -Thomas- Msg#: 7042 *GENERAL* 09/01/88 13:40:16 From: STEVE CIARCIA To: THOMAS BARNETT (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 7018 (8052 PROJECTS) Everybody will sell you the chip but nobody has the manual :-) The BASIC-52 manual is very hard to get but micromint stocks them and ships one with every BCC52. The BASIC-52 manual (make sure you order a BASIC-52 manual and NOT a BCC52 manual!) is $15 plus P&H from Micromint. --Steve Msg#: 7046 *GENERAL* 09/01/88 16:13:10 From: SAMMY KATZ To: KEN DAVIDSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 6932 (8052 PROJECTS) While I was in grad school I worked on an 8052 project. I called Intel in Santa Clara and they were more than happy to send me three Basic-52 manuals, for me and my lab partners, gratis. It's worth a shot. The number is (408)987-8080. Good luck. Msg#: 7054 *GENERAL* 09/01/88 21:14:55 From: THOMAS BARNETT To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 7042 (8052 PROJECTS) Thanks, I'll send for it. -Thomas- Msg#: 6205 *GENERAL* 08/13/88 19:22:36 From: KENNETH MAXON To: ALL Subj: FILE COPMACTION COULD ANYONE TELL ME THE FORMAT OF THE UPLOADEDm{FILESE HERE PRESENTED, OR AT LEAST POINT ME IN THE DIRECTION OF SOME LITERATURE, OR UPLOADED MESSAGES, SO THAT ONCE I HAVE DOWN LOADED SOME "ROM" I CAN DISSASSEMBLE IT THANKS ! KENNETH MAXON Msg#: 6299 *GENERAL* 08/16/88 13:08:59 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: KENNETH MAXON Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 6205 (FILE COPMACTION) The EPROM files are all in Intel hex format. I think there is a file in the Other/Text area that describes the file format. Most EPROM programmers I know of expect to see data sent to them in Intel hex format, hence the reason why all the EPROM files are encoded that way. Msg#: 6208 *GENERAL* 08/13/88 22:31:23 From: CHRIS DAVIS To: ALL Subj: UUNET CONNECTIVITY Is this BBS connected to UUNET in any way? Or does anyone using this system have a UUNET feed? I am interested in establishing UUNET connectivity for this BBS with the goal of facilitating communications regarding UNIX, image processing, networking (TCP/IP), amateur packet radio (especially high speed RF data links on vhf/uhf) etc. I am running several UNIX systems in the southern california area and have regular UUNET access. Anyone interested ? Msg#: 6300 *GENERAL* 08/16/88 13:12:34 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: CHRIS DAVIS (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 6208 (UUNET CONNECTIVITY) This BBS has no connection with UUNET, however I do subscribe to several topics in Usenet and have UUCP mail access (via a different machine). Given the nature of UUNET, we really have no interest in trying to connect (we'd probably go Fidonet first, anyway, since there is already software available for doing so). Please remember that you may not repost any messages form this board elsewhere without prior permission. Msg#: 6637 *GENERAL* 08/24/88 02:34:17 From: CHRIS DAVIS To: KEN DAVIDSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 6300 (UUNET CONNECTIVITY) Ken, thanks for the response. Chris. Msg#: 6209 *GENERAL* 08/13/88 22:39:33 From: CHRIS DAVIS To: ALL Subj: PACKET RADIO is anyone else interested in packet radio ? maybe we could establish a packet radio path to this bbs from so.cal. (or has that already been done? oh boy!) thanks...... chris Msg#: 6238 *GENERAL* 08/15/88 07:55:58 From: BOB PADDOCK To: CHRIS DAVIS (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 6209 (PACKET RADIO) Sence the system here sells things on line (Specificily subscriptions to CC Ink), you can't connect it via Ham Radio. Msg#: 6215 *GENERAL* 08/14/88 14:43:17 From: DICK FAIRBANKS To: LARRY YOUNKINS (Rcvd) Subj: AT&T 212A Larry: I just signed on Connectime for the first time a few days ago. Dunno why, but I downloaded a bunch of the old ones and started to read them, including yours. If you still need help on your Bell 212A, I can fix you up. No sweat. Let me know. Dick Fairbanks Msg#: 6788 *GENERAL* 08/26/88 11:21:33 From: LARRY YOUNKINS To: DICK FAIRBANKS (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 6215 (AT&T 212A) Dick, I seem to have the AT&T 212A talking without the handset, but I'm not sure why! Any additional insight you may have would be greatly appreciated. Thanks, Larry Younkins Msg#: 6846 *GENERAL* 08/28/88 13:25:15 From: DICK FAIRBANKS To: LARRY YOUNKINS (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 6788 (AT&T 212A) Wow!!! I'd kind of like to know how you did it. About 3 years ago, I tried to do it myself. $50.00 in long distance calls around the country to AT&T got me nowhere. Finally, a local AT&T repairman got me going with a handset. The labor charge for that visit was about $100.00, so it was **expensive** information. Before that visit, I tried direct connect, but it just wouldn't work. I've since graduated to a 2400 baud modem a couple of months ago, so the question is now academic. One thing I do miss about the 212A--- It sure cut through the line noise crap like no other modem ever made since!!! Dick Fairbanks Msg#: 7088 *GENERAL* 09/02/88 11:18:15 From: LARRY YOUNKINS To: DICK FAIRBANKS (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 6846 (AT&T 212A) Dick, I too made quite a few calls to AT&T to figure this out. I eventually (with the help of Eddie White on this BBS) was able to determine where the Tip and Ring signals from the key set connect to the modem, and with some experimentation finally got the thing working! I'll see if I can dig up the pin connections. Larry Younkins Msg#: 6216 *GENERAL* 08/14/88 14:45:28 From: DICK FAIRBANKS To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: BYTE MAGAZINE Steve: I picked up an INK from Dalton's the other day. A check is in the mail for my subscription. I saw your messages that Byte won't renew your contract. I bought my first computer from an ad in Byte (a MITS Altair) and when you leave, I bail out too. I'm a little tired of Jerry P. up to his *** in demos, trying to figure out how to make them work. . The funny thing--- a few years ago when Byte had the Bomb, I was always a little embarrassed for you. Circuit Cellar always got the most votes everytime I looked. Today, Byte is for MIS VP's desktop ornamentation. The average reader wouldn't know which end of a soldering iron to hold until he plugged it in. Let's get Carl Helmers back for software hacking articles and really do it right!! . That Digital DVM project will be a good start, but how about interfacing an Intersil ICM7226 counter chip to RS-232 for frequency (actually 5 functions) counting? Then a logic analyzer?? Dick Fairbanks Msg#: 6219 *GENERAL* 08/14/88 14:55:06 From: STEVE CIARCIA To: TOMMY BRUSEHAVER Subj: CC INK SUBJECT MATERIAL CC INK initially relied upon Ken, Jeff, Ed, and me for material in the first 2-3 issues. Being involved with "pc-clone" BYTE for so long, that's the kind of stuff we had on the burner when we gave CC INK the go. This is a short term thing of course and you'll note that issue 4 has the beginnings of a 68000 project and a couple standalone units; same with issue #5. CC INK is NOT computer specific. With Curt Franklin at the helm, we will have Mac interfaces and stuff for lots of general computers. Stay tuned for more 64180 stuff. That's Ken's favorite processor (hey? Didn't the X-10 transmitter article include 64180 code?) and he won't lose it in the rush to fill pages. Ken and I have an article in issue #5 that combines a BCC180 and ImageWise to produce ROVER -- Remotely Operated Video-based Electronic Surveillance ! No lack of support for past projects here. You just have to read the articles, not just look at the pictures :-) --Steve Msg#: 6223 *GENERAL* 08/14/88 15:39:40 From: STEVE CIARCIA To: DICK FAIRBANKS (Rcvd) Subj: CC INK ARTICLE SUBJECTS Thanks for your support. We have discovered that many of the people who have picked up CC INK on the news stand (it is almost unheard of for a magazine to be on the national news stand at the 2nd issue like we are) immediately subscribe. It's better than direct mail promotion. Perhaps we can talk Bob Meister to do a serial frequency counter as a followup to his serial DVM (project starts in issue #5). Also a logic analyzer is being discussed. --Steve Msg#: 6228 *GENERAL* 08/14/88 20:37:48 From: IAN BAYNE To: ALL Subj: AMIGA BBS There is an AMIGA BBS at 203-871-6489, but you have to pay $20 per year to have full access to files.This is response to past msg's on AMIGA BBS's. Msg#: 6231 *GENERAL* 08/14/88 23:21:51 From: SHAHRAM NAGHSHINEH To: ALL Subj: WEST COAST CKT CELLAR BBS? I recently started buying INK and discovered Steve's bbs. Is or are there similar bbs's on the east coast so that I can save on phone charges? I would still ofcourse use Circuit Cellar. Msg#: 6302 *GENERAL* 08/16/88 13:22:44 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: SHAHRAM NAGHSHINEH Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 6231 (WEST COAST CKT CELLAR BBS?) I think you mean "Is there a BBS like it on the west coast?" Not that I know of. Of course, being on the east coast isn't conducive to knowing about west coast BBSs. Once Telenet finishes adding Hartford as an outdial city for PC Pursuit, you'll be able to call here as often as you like for a flat $25 per month. They've been promising that it would be functional before the end of August, so we'll see. Msg#: 6233 *GENERAL* 08/14/88 23:44:00 From: ERIC POOLE To: ALL Subj: LOGIC SIMULATION SOFTWARE I'm working on a 64180-based logic design project that includes some fairly critically-timed sequential logic. Drawing timing diagrams by hand is getting to be a major pain in the @##, and so I'm desperately casting about for a reasonably-priced (under $1K) logic simulation program. It must: - Import OrCAD schematic netlists or any netlist that OrCAD supports (Cadnetix, Futurenet, Tango, etc). - Come with a reasonably complete library of parts, including microprocessors, together with an easy-to-use ability to build custom parts. - Must handle variable (best-case to worst-case) propagation delays and detect timing violations or race conditions or the potential for same. - Must have at least 5-nanosecond resolution, preferably 1-ns. - Should work with a Houston Instruments plotter. Distant second- best would be to work with HP plotters or Epson printers and have the ability to send the output to a file. So far I have looked at LOGSIM (shareware, won't import netlists or handle microprocessors), OrCAD/VST (limited library; doesn't seem to do propagation delays very well although all I have is a demo disk with very poor documentation), and Accel's SUSIE (again, a demo disk with lousy documentation; not clear to me how well it handles microprocessors or critical timings). Anyone out there have any experience with any of the above or anything else? Recommendations? Anything I should stay away from? Thanks. . . . . . ep Msg#: 6235 *GENERAL* 08/15/88 01:05:01 From: JIM MOTT To: ALL Subj: HCS DESCRIPTION AND HELP REQUEST Hi, I have read with interest all the messages on this BBS. If anyone can answer my questions it will be somebody here. I am having a fairly smart house built. One of my goals is to be able to control every light/fan/utility in the house. Logically there is a relay on every electrical thing in the house. Only the wall plugs escape this treatment. All the wall switches are low voltage(24V) and terminate in regular telephone punch down blocks. The actual high voltage control is accomplished with remote controlled circuit breakers. The control wires for the breakers terminate in standard telephone punch down blocks. In the default case 50 pair cables connect the punch down blocks and allow the house lights to work without central system intervention. The heating and cooling system work by breaking the house into five zones. Each has a seperate thermestat, and there are temperature sensors scattered around the house. To impliment the zones, I use a series of 'flexdampers', ballon like things that go in the heating and cooling pipes. These dampers can be inflated and deflated under computer control. There is a standalone computer system that polls the thermestats and controls the dampers without central system intervention. All windows and doors have regular magnetic security system sensors attached. There are infrared motion detectors in most of the rooms, and some pads live under rugs by doorways. All the sensor wires terminate in punch down blocks in a special room in the attic. There is a normal security system electronics complex that allow the security system to function without central system control. The cable company cable comes into the house, has two channels added, and is fed into video distribution amplifiers. Each room has two combined cable and telephone boxes in opposite corners. The telephone wires and cables run back to the control room in the attic and terminate in patch panels. The cable panels are then driven from the amplifiers, and the telephones are driven normally. I don't expect all cable and telephone outlets to be active all the time. There are a bunch of infrared relay boxes located around the house that will pick up controller signals and replay them to the closet that contains the audio/video/computer equipment. This, for example, lets the VCR remote work from another room and put a tape on the cable for viewing in that room. I expect to have a video camera on the front porch and one in the back. They, alone with the VCR and an ImageWise receiver, will be fed to something like the AVMUX. The two added cable channel inputs and an ImageWise transmitter will live at the other end of the MUX. All the the subsystems have a 'dumb' mode. Either no electronics is needed, as in the case of the lights/fans/utilities, or a standalone controller is used, as in the case of the security system and HVAC system. I might want to sell this house sometime and can't expect the buyer will want to maintain a bunch of home built hardware/software junk. As a central computer I am using an 80186 based single board control computer. This makes my software development easier because I can use IBM-PCs as development platforms, and use any development tools for PCs for my HCS system. My software is written in Turbo-C, assembler, and Microsoft C. I compile and test it on a PS/2 and then send it to the HCS computer. This has worked out well for me. I am a software person. I build hardware only when forced to and then only the minimum amount necessary to do the job. Better 500 lines of assembler than 2 more chips I always say. These 24V remote controlled circuit breakers have me stumped. They have little motors in them. The motors can draw up to 2 amps for a minimum of 50 milliseconds. I know how to drive them with relays, but don't want to. I suspect that there is some transistor, or something like it, that would do the job nicely. Any suggestions? (Continued) Msg#: 6236 *GENERAL* 08/15/88 01:06:33 From: JIM MOTT To: ALL Subj: HCS - CONTINUATION (cont) I expect to move in sometime in November. At that time I can get to my books and some software that is in storage. Some of that software contains routines that can accept ImageWise data at 56Kb on an AT. There is also a bunch of display software for ImageWise pictures on an 8514. (6 of them really, with histograms) I will upload all of that when I can get to them again. Thanks Jim Msg#: 6239 *GENERAL* 08/15/88 08:40:48 From: GEORGE NOVACEK To: ALL Subj: CAD THE AMD REP GAVE ME THE LATEST PALASM2 VERSION CLAIMING IT WILL ACCEPT INPUT FROM OrCAD. SINE WRITING BOOLEAN EQUATIONS IS NOT MY IDEA OF FUN I WAS QUITE EXCITED ABOUT IT. BUT NOWHERE IN THE MANUAL CAN I FIND A REFERENCE TO ANY SCHEMATIC CAPTURE INPUT. DOES ANYBODY OUT THERE KNOW ANYTHING ABOUT IT? THANKS. GEORGE Msg#: 6247 *GENERAL* 08/15/88 12:33:00 From: BOB PADDOCK To: ALL Subj: 16 BIT DATA ACQUISISTION SYSTEM I just got this in my 'junk mail' tought some one might find it useful: "Our TSC500A Converter Design Kit Puts Everything in Your Hands!" It is a fully wired, tested 8 channel, 16 bit data acquisition system that works with your IBM PCXTR. Complete with software on disk and it includes the source code. The design kit also includes the necessary application notes and data sheets. Membership in our Design Support Group, including free consultation with TSC application engineers and free evaluation samples of new TSC500A converts. All for $79.50 [Yes less than $80 dollars]. Send check or money order or call 1-800-888-9966. Teledyne Semiconductor 1300 Terra Bella Avenue PO Box 7267 Mountain View, CA 94039-7267 Attention: Marketing Services" I have NOT seen one of the units, and have no further info on it, if some one goes for one, let us know what it does......... Msg#: 6250 *GENERAL* 08/15/88 12:44:06 From: BYRON BLAKE To: BOB PADDOCK (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 6247 (16 BIT DATA ACQUISISTION SYSTEM) Bob, Just want I was looking for in the way of data acquistion when my temporary job ends in a few weeks and I go back to college, I'll make time and order the product. I'll be sure to let you and the readers know how it turns out. Most likely, I will not get around to rdering and installing unitl late September or October. Thanks for the VERY USEFUL information. Byron, KA1ILI Msg#: 6255 *GENERAL* 08/15/88 15:53:06 From: MATTHEW LEVINE To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: NEW CONCEPTS SUBMISSION STEVE, I BELIEVE I HAVE AN INTERESTING IF NOT ENTIRELY MARKETABLE APPLICATIONS CONCEPT THAT I WOULD LIKE YOU TO EXAMINE AND GIVE SUGGESTIONS ABOUT. IT INVOLVES MARINE NAVIGATION AUTOMATION. I WOULD RATHER NOT GO INTO FURTHER DETAIL HERE BUT WOULD LIKE TO MAIL IT TO YOU OR AT LEAST A PROXY. DO YOU HAVE A MAILING ADDRESS OR SHOULD I SEND IT TO THE CC INK ADDRESS IN ROCKVILLE? THANKS, ->->->MATT<-<-<- Msg#: 6286 *GENERAL* 08/16/88 09:55:10 From: STEVE CIARCIA To: MATTHEW LEVINE (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 6255 (NEW CONCEPTS SUBMISSION) Best place to send things to me is: Circuit Cellar INK 4 Park Street Suite 20 Vernon, Ct 06066 --Steve Msg#: 6303 *GENERAL* 08/16/88 13:26:31 From: MATTHEW LEVINE To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 6286 (NEW CONCEPTS SUBMISSION) STEVE , THANKS FOR THE REPLY . IT WILL BE IN THE MAIL AS SOON AS I NEATEN IT UP A BIT . WHO KNOWS , IT MAY EVEN MAKE A SEVERAL PART ARTICLE IN THE FUTURE ( IF IT WORKS ). THANKS AGAIN, ->->-> MATT <-<-<- Msg#: 6439 *GENERAL* 08/18/88 17:00:19 From: MATTHEW LEVINE To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 6286 (NEW CONCEPTS SUBMISSION) STEVE , IT'S IN THE MAIL AND THANKS FOR THE HELP!!! . WHO KNOWS , MAYBE THERE IS A COAST GUARD CITATION WAITING FOR SUCH AN ITEM. ->->-> MATT <-<-<- Msg#: 6319 *GENERAL* 08/16/88 15:11:24 From: RON WILSON To: ALL Subj: MULTIPLE DISPLAY ADAPTORS Does any one know if it is possible to run multiple monochrome display adaptors on an IBM-PC compatable. If so, how? We are starting work on a monitoring aplication and would like to independently operate 3 display adaptors (text only) from the application running in a single PC. We are currently using 3 com adaptors and 3 terminals, but have noticed that using extra display adaptors and monitors would cost less if it can be done. - Ron Msg#: 6320 *GENERAL* 08/16/88 15:20:04 From: RON WILSON To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: TRIPLE RS-232 ADAPTOR FOR BCC52 I had asked you once about interfacing multiple Termites to the BCC52 and I recall that you (or maybe some one else) mentioned a triple RS-232 adaptor for the BCC52 family existed was in the making. I can't seem to find the message I saw this in. Is this true or am I imagining it? Thanks in advance. - Ron Msg#: 6348 *GENERAL* 08/17/88 08:32:31 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: RON WILSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 6320 (TRIPLE RS-232 ADAPTOR FOR BCC52) We have a new dual serial board for the BCC bus. That must be what you're remembering. The boards are now shipping. Give sales a call at (800) 635-3355 and ask about the BCC18. Msg#: 6350 *GENERAL* 08/17/88 09:26:54 From: STEVE CIARCIA To: RON WILSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 6320 (TRIPLE RS-232 ADAPTOR FOR BCC52) Ken forgot to add that you can also run as many as 16 BCC18 boards (a more practical limit is 8) from one BCC52. SO, that would allow you to run 32 BCC22 Termite terminals if you were really crazy. --Steve Msg#: 6362 *GENERAL* 08/17/88 13:55:16 From: RON WILSON To: KEN DAVIDSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 6348 (TRIPLE RS-232 ADAPTOR FOR BCC52) Thanks Msg#: 6363 *GENERAL* 08/17/88 13:56:06 From: RON WILSON To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 6350 (TRIPLE RS-232 ADAPTOR FOR BCC52) Thanks Msg#: 6325 *GENERAL* 08/16/88 17:01:10 From: JOHN MEALEY To: ALL Subj: BUILD AN AT CLONE? A project I have been doing some thinking on came up at lunch today at the Hunan Lion. Why would I want to build my own AT clone? I mentioned to my lunch mates my dissatisfaction with the power supplies, cases, internal cabling arrangements, cooling of the cheaper "Clone kits", in the hopes that their would be some interest. The food came. Oh well, what I would like is some sort of massive Intergrand case with a solid power supply, access to four floppies (the four current types) and access to a hard disk or two. The case just got expensive. Outside of the Floppy/HD controller the other parts are available. What to do about the controller? A backplane with the OEM-10 would best serve as the base with the posiblilty of moving up to a '386 in later years. I'm going to go finish the leftovers and go back to my sketch pad to think some more. -John Msg#: 6336 *GENERAL* 08/16/88 23:49:16 From: JAY MALONE To: ALL Subj: IBM PC EXPANSION Welll, I need some help! I've run out of slots on my PC Clone and I need to add a couple more cards. Does ANYONE know where I can get schematics for an expansion chassis?? I've been a computer electronic tech for six years, so I don't envision any problems with the actual construction, just design. Thanks for the assistance. Jay Malone Msg#: 6364 *GENERAL* 08/17/88 14:06:29 From: RON WILSON To: JAY MALONE Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 6336 (IBM PC EXPANSION) Be warned that expansion busses won't work faster than the 4.77MHz of the "standard" PC.6m}f* You might be better off exchanging some of cards for multifunction cards (ie: combined floppy and hard disk controller and combined display adaptor/serial/parallel/ whatever). Another possiblity, if you would be willing to move your PC's mother board, et al$%Dw3r into a larger case, you might be able to build a card that you could plug 3 or 4 other cards into (ie: stacked horizontally). Good luck - Ron Msg#: 6449 *GENERAL* 08/18/88 22:08:32 From: DAVE EVERS To: JAY MALONE Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 6336 (IBM PC EXPANSION) The best place to find schematics for the PC expansion bus is the IBM PC/XT TECHNICAL REFERENCE MANUAL. It has full schematics for the system which includes a driver board that goes in the PC, and a receiver that installs in the expansion. I've seen TECH REF manuals at some Computerlands; you might want to call around to see if they have one. Msg#: 6506 *GENERAL* 08/21/88 05:11:45 From: JASON SOLOFF To: JAY MALONE Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 6336 (IBM PC EXPANSION) JAY, DID YOU EVER CONSIDER USING AN EXTRA CAGE (COMERCIAL) HAS 5 +-1 CARD SLOT, AND USUALLY RUNS ABOUT $100-200. ADDS ARE IN COMPUTER SHOPPER, AND OTHER SUCH MAGS. JASON Msg#: 6342 *GENERAL* 08/17/88 01:33:21 From: LARRY SIMS To: JEFF BACHIOCHI (Rcvd) Subj: BCC-52 PARALLEL PORT PRINTER DRIV Thanks for the ML driver code for the BCC-52. It was well commented and very instructive. The connection table was clear and understandable. I'm looking forward to your upcoming article in CCInk. I have some questions and will limit them to the most important. a. What is the best and easiest way to program a 2764 using the CENTRONX.HEX file? b. If the first 6 bytes and last byte of each line were stripped off and the resulting file downloaded to RAM memory in the BCC-52, could the BASIC program on page 73 of the MCS Basic-52 manual then be used to program a 2764 EPROM? c. I do not have ROM A,B, or C on my BCC-52. What routines in MCS Basic-52 will find the vector at address 602AH and jump to the initialization routine? d. I need some explaination of the printer busy loop from address 686CH to 6883H. Looks like there is an inside loop from 687CH to 6883H and an outside loop from 686CH to 6883H. The inside loop loads A with 0FFH, decrements A until A is 0, then jumps to LOOP2. The outside loop loads A with 0FFH, moves A to B, loads A with Port B data, A.and.1H, leaves the loop if A=0 (B0=0) or stays in loop if A=1 (B0=1), assuming A=1 the program goes to instruction at 6875H and moves A (which is 1) to B, ... I would have thought that the instruction at 6875H would be MOV A,B , which would move the outside loop counter value into A, then if A=0 jump to ERR or if A>0 then DEC A, then MOV B,A which moves the decremented outside loop counter to B, then on to the inside loop. e. The MCS Basic-52 manual explained the MOV A,05H instruction at address 688CH. f. What assembler did you use to produce these files? g. Have you had any experience with the 8051 SIMULATOR by HiTech Equip. Corp. or the AVSIM51 simulator/debugger by AVOCET SYSTEMS? LARRY SIMS HOUSTON, TX Msg#: 6369 *GENERAL* 08/17/88 16:51:36 From: JEFF BACHIOCHI To: LARRY SIMS (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 6342 (BCC-52 PARALLEL PORT PRINTER DRIV) . Larry, . Yes, stripping off the INTEL formating and checksum will leave the code. You will be left with ASC CHR's of the upper and lower nibble of each binary byte. Once you get the right code into memory, the program on page 73 will allow you to blast it to EPROM. The jump at 602A is actually part of a list of jump vectors normally found at the beginning of a set of routines. These jump locations remain the same even if the routine changes in length due to revisions in the code. Step #7 should say [CALL 0602AH], but either CALL will do. . MOV A,B would seem to be the right choice. Looks like a flaw that hasn't caused a problem as yet. . ROM A&B would make your life a whole lot easier. Not only does it include INTEL HEXLoad & HEXSave commands, but BLAST, to program anything anywhere in RAM to EPROM. The source code was written on the 52 using ROM A&B. That can be downloaded as well into TEDIT (ROM A&B) for future alterations and quick assembling right on-board. . Both AVOCET programs are top-notch. If you can dig up the bread! . jeff Msg#: 6365 *GENERAL* 08/17/88 14:35:19 From: BRUCE MEISSNER To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: WEFAX The first four issues of INK have been great. Finally logged into your BBS and I'm finding some great stuff! In reference to msg#6254 from John Benett about WEFAX. For a number of years I have been receiving facsmile from both HF radio and polar orbiting satellites. I have programs and built hardware to go with them (for IBM and Tandy Color Computer). If someone has questions I might be able to help or steer them to someone that can. Sorry to hear about you and BYTE, I always got the magazine to read your articles. Now I'll be an INK subscriber to keep up with escapades. Best of luck. Msg#: 6370 *GENERAL* 08/17/88 17:44:05 From: ROBERT SHANKS To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: AUTOMATIC TURN OFF HI STEVE - GREAT BBS I'M WORKING ON A PROJECT WITH A 80C31 WITH AN LCD DISPLAY AND OTHER ELECTRONICS. WHAT I WANT TO DO IS HIT A MONENTARY PUSH BUTTON TO TURN THE DEVICE ON THEN FLIP AN I/O BIT TO KEEP THE DEVICE ON UNTIL NO INPUT IS MADE FOR 2 MINUTES. I THINK I KNOW HOW TO DO THIS WITH A RELAY, BUT WAS THINKING IT PROBABLY WOULD BE MORE POWER(BATTERY) EFFICIENT TO DO IT WITH A TRANSISTOR. THE DEVICE WILL NEED APROX. 600mA CURRENT. WHAT WOULD BE A GOOD TRANSISTOR OR CIRCUIT TO DO THIS? THANKS AHEAD FOR ANY HELP! QUESTION #2 - SHOULD I HAVE PUT THIS SORT OF QUESTION UP FOR GRABS ON THE MESSAGE SECTION? THANKS AGAIN ROBERT Msg#: 6425 *GENERAL* 08/18/88 11:13:27 From: STEVE CIARCIA To: ROBERT SHANKS (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 6370 (AUTOMATIC TURN OFF) The resident 8031 guru is Ed Nisley. Perhaps if he see this message he can offer an appropriate solution. --Steve Msg#: 6435 *GENERAL* 08/18/88 14:31:37 From: ROBERT SHANKS To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 6425 (AUTOMATIC TURN OFF) THANKS - STEVE I'LL GIVE ED A HOLLER ROBERT Msg#: 6375 *GENERAL* 08/17/88 19:02:33 From: BOB MAHONEY To: BOB PADDOCK (Rcvd) Subj: CROSS COMPILER I would be very interested in the C cross compiler for 68K code, and look forward to seeing it. Thanks Bob Msg#: 6404 *GENERAL* 08/18/88 07:31:12 From: BOB PADDOCK To: BOB MAHONEY (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 6375 (CROSS COMPILER) I uploaded it yesterday, look for pd68kcc.arc. It has a few limitations, that are documented, but at least its free. Msg#: 6441 *GENERAL* 08/18/88 19:58:40 From: BOB MAHONEY To: BOB PADDOCK (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 6404 (CROSS COMPILER) Thanks for the compiler, I have been looking for an affordable one for quite a while. Msg#: 6380 *GENERAL* 08/17/88 19:43:21 From: BRIAN JOSEPH To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: CCC BOOKS.... Steve, I just received your CCC books. I now have all 6!!!! I never have seen your projects from vols I and II and I loved them!!! I especially liked the way every article seemed to start out with a verbatim conversationw3 between yo{ and one or more of your friends/associates!!! I was rolling on the floor!!! The other thing I thought was funny was that a Z80 with 32K of RAM was a big deal!!!:-) I used to have a TRS-80 with 16K........ How times have changed!!!!!!!! Also, although I understand about CCI and MicroMint sharing space, I don't understand what happend with my order!!! I ordered 5 CCC books and an 11.059 crystal from MM. I received my order from CCI!!!! I guessw3 it really doesn't make a difference......I've got my CCC's and I can BURN ALL of my back issues of BYTE!!!!:-) (maybe I'll put them in the attic.........) Brian. P.S. Although I'm glad to be going baxk to school full time, I don't know what to do about my need to call this system a million times a month!!! I guess I'll have to cut back to 2-3 time a month...:- (Maybe I'll move to CT..............) Msg#: 6426 *GENERAL* 08/18/88 11:29:29 From: STEVE CIARCIA To: BRIAN JOSEPH (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 6380 (CCC BOOKS....) Soon the Hartford area will be available via PC Pursuit and you can call as offten as you want for a fixed fee of $25 a month. Ken said that it was supposed to be this fall at the latest. Regarding your book order, while Micromint may have taken the order, the books were really CCI inventory and a CCI product. SOmetimes the two companies help each other because of the proxmity and the overlapping phone system. What's really crazy is when somebody call Micromint for an INK subscription! Oh well. Regarding my humorous intos, they were cut out of BYTE as fewer pages were available to present both the humor and technical messages. You'll note that it has even gotten worse in the last year. My articles in the early '80s averaged 18-20 pages and lately they are 6-8 pages. BYTE is much smaller too. In any case, CC INK gives me an opportunity to combine humor and high tech again. Perhaps you noticed the Bottle Rocket article? In Issue #5 another project called ROVER for Remotely Operated Video-based Electronic Reconnaissance is planned. It is a real video surveillance device, albeit presented with some humor. Finally, next spring Ed and I have a couple Bottle Rocket blasters with the ORACLE and an electronic Bartender. We're just starting to have fun again. BTW, if you are planning to burn your piles of BYTEs, I can suggest a good place for you to build the fire :-) --Steve Msg#: 6393 *GENERAL* 08/18/88 00:34:33 From: LARRY KENNY To: GARY D PACK Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 48 (BUS INTERFACE) Maybe you could use an open collector buffer chip between the CPU and Modem Msg#: 6399 *GENERAL* 08/18/88 02:58:34 From: ROY CLAY To: GARY D PACK Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 48 (BUS INTERFACE) Why not just create two power busses, one which is battery backed and one that is not. The CPU can run off the battery backed buss and the modem chip can run of the regular buss. As long as their is only one ground buss there should not be any power conflicts. You will still have to provide some sort of protection for the inputs of the modem when it is powered down Msg#: 6396 *GENERAL* 08/18/88 00:50:40 From: LARRY KENNY To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: Z8 VS 8031 I am working on a large XY cutting machine (gas) that will have a CCTV folowing a line on paper as its patern. I plan to use a number of CPU's . One in each dc motor controller and one in the Eye digitizer. I am very familiar with the Z80 and i dont would like to know if the Z8 is as good as the 8031. The Z8 looks easier to program. Can you get CMOS Z8's? My digitizer will just have 128x128 res to allow for process time between frames. If i get a frame ever 60th of a second will i have a jitter problem with interlace? I havent finished my prototypes yet so i am open for sugestion. Msg#: 6400 *GENERAL* 08/18/88 03:07:10 From: ROY CLAY To: HENRY FLURRY Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 71 (SSI263) What about something based on the IGES format which has been proposed as a standard for CAD drawing? Msg#: 6402 *GENERAL* 08/18/88 03:15:45 From: ROY CLAY To: KEN HOWELL (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 89 (ENCLOSURES) Cannon makes circular connectors for military and industrial use and provides a variety of pinouts. This may meet your need. Msg#: 6693 *GENERAL* 08/25/88 02:13:47 From: KEN HOWELL To: ROY CLAY (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 6402 (ENCLOSURES) Do you have an address for Cannon? --Ken. Msg#: 6856 *GENERAL* 08/29/88 01:54:13 From: ROY CLAY To: KEN HOWELL (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 6693 (ENCLOSURES) No I do not have an address for Cannon but I usually order my connectors from Fair Radio Sales Co. Inc., Box 1105, 1016 E. Eureka St., Lima OH 45802 419-227-6573. I buy them as surplus. The same quality but cheaper price. Msg#: 7172 *GENERAL* 09/05/88 23:27:35 From: KEN HOWELL To: ROY CLAY Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 6856 (ENCLOSURES) Thanks for the info. --Ken. Msg#: 6440 *GENERAL* 08/18/88 17:23:45 From: BOB LAWSON To: ALL Subj: MOTOROLA DATA DISK I just received the first issue of Motorola's "SPECS IN SECS" data disk. This has all of Motorola's discrete semiconductors listed by type, operating parameters, price ,case, ...... It is not only a very useful tool (replacing lots of paper), but it is very fast and allows for sorts and searches in any of several combinations. It can be had by contacting your local Motorola distributor and requesting data disk DK101/D. It is being distributed free of charge and users are encouraged to pass it around. A similar disk is available from Precision Monolithics (PMI Analog Product Catalog) but it is not as comprehensive. Msg#: 6442 *GENERAL* 08/18/88 20:01:58 From: SAMMY KATZ To: ALL Subj: MICROPROCCESSOR I am looking for an 8 bit microprocessor that uses a single multiplexed bus for both data and address. It is to be tied to a system that utilizes only one bus and because of absolute space constraints, doing the bus multiplexing on my own is out of the question. This is a super low power, low speed, minimum parts and area project. Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thanx in advance. Msg#: 6569 *GENERAL* 08/22/88 16:22:14 From: RON WILSON To: SAMMY KATZ (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 6442 (MICROPROCCESSOR) Try using an RCA 1802. It's CMOS and uses a multiplexed address bus (ie high order address byte first, then low order). This configuration has the advantage that a device that only needs the low order address need not worry about demuxing (eg: you could decode the high order address into a device or card slot select). Also, the 1802 has an onboard oscillator (just connect a crystal), DMA controller, "manual" boot loader, and single step circuitry. In any case this will result in 16 bits for address and data and 4 or so control bits on your bus. Msg#: 6927 *GENERAL* 08/30/88 08:18:31 From: BOB PADDOCK To: SAMMY KATZ (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 6442 (MICROPROCCESSOR) Can you use some type of single chip system and avoid the bus all together? I think the IMS6100 multplexes data and address on the same bus. (12 bit CPU compatable with PDP-8 instruction set). Trying to pick a CPU because of a multiplexed buss seems like a strange way to chose a CPU to me? You can get EPROMS that have built in address lattches (Intel 87C257), and RAM chips (8185 1K by 8 [NMOS]). A 80C31 and 87C75 might make a nice smal cmCMOSS system. Msg#: 7044 *GENERAL* 09/01/88 16:00:31 From: SAMMY KATZ To: BOB PADDOCK (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 6927 (MICROPROCCESSOR) The reason I have this stange criteria is that the system that I have to interface the processor to already exists. Given my druthers I would most certainly make a decision based on performance and assorted other typical criteria. It is a very specialized design, design for a very specific application. My goal is to see whether I can "turbo-charge" the design without causing a snowball effect with regard to the system complexity and the ease of implementing the changes. Any more input on 8-bit micro-p's with multiplexed data and address busses is welcome and would be highly appreciated. Msg#: 6447 *GENERAL* 08/18/88 21:58:43 From: JOHN APPLEYARD To: ALL Subj: EGA MONITOR Does anyone have an address where I could get a 9 inch EGA MONITOR that DOES NOT have a case, so I can replace the TTL monitor in my COMPAQ with a color one ? I really don't know where to start. Any info would be appreciated . Msg#: 6450 *GENERAL* 08/18/88 22:24:25 From: DAVE EVERS To: ALL Subj: PAL DESIGN/PROGRAMMING Is there anyone lurking on this BBS who could design and burn me a PAL for a project I am working on (for a reasonable fee, of course). The application is not really too complex - I want to use a PAL to replace a 7400, 7408, and 7485 in a PC prototype board for the address decoding circuitry. I would do it myself but I don't have a programmer and would prefer to skip over the learning curve. If anyone is interested please drop me a note here. Msg#: 6898 *GENERAL* 08/29/88 15:27:38 From: BOB MAHONEY To: DAVE EVERS (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 6450 (PAL DESIGN/PROGRAMMING) I have access to a PAL programmer and can burn a PAL for you if you still need it. No fee if you provide the PAL and postage. Let me know if I can help you. Msg#: 6951 *GENERAL* 08/30/88 13:20:27 From: DAVE EVERS To: BOB MAHONEY (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 6898 (PAL DESIGN/PROGRAMMING) Bob - Thanks - I guess I'll invest in the PAL Starter Kit that Jameco or JDR offers for about $50 bucks - I think it says that it includes the CUPL PAL design software. Would this be compatible with your programmer. If this works out, I'll probably invest in a programmer of my own. I appreciate your offer of help. Msg#: 7109 *GENERAL* 09/02/88 22:44:41 From: BOB MAHONEY To: DAVE EVERS (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 6951 (PAL DESIGN/PROGRAMMING) Dave, as long as the CUPL produces a JEDEC fuse plot, I think it will work. I haven't tried it though, as I have been using the freebie versions of PALASM (I think I saw one on this board). If you get CUPL from JDR, let me know if it is a complete package or if it has been crippled so that it works only with a few devices. I've been interested in getting it myself as I hear it is much better than PALASM, but I wasn't sure if the low cost versions will handle a wide selection of PALS. Msg#: 7204 *GENERAL* 09/06/88 17:54:27 From: DAVE EVERS To: BOB MAHONEY (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 7109 (PAL DESIGN/PROGRAMMING) Thanks for the reply - I am going to order it in the next week or so and we'll see what it does. I'll drop a note to you here with any info I can find. Msg#: 6453 *GENERAL* 08/19/88 01:33:06 From: ANDREAS DESSOFF To: ALL Subj: SCSI VS. SASI Can someone tell me how to find out the differences, if any, between SASI and SCSI? I understand that SCSI is a further development, or refinement, of what used to be SASI. Are these standards sufficiently identical so that I would be able to connect an SCSI hard disk controller to a host adapter that was originally meant to use an SASI hard disk controller? What literature could I consult on this? Thanks in advance. . . . . . . . . . Andy. Msg#: 6462 *GENERAL* 08/19/88 09:47:07 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: ANDREAS DESSOFF (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 6453 (SCSI VS. SASI) SASI was originally developed by Shugart (Shugart Associates' System Interface, or something like that). When it was adopted as a standard, the committee couldn't very well leave the company's name in there, so they renamed it to SCSI (Small Computer System Interface). SCSI is nearly identical to SASI, so cross connecting devices usually works. I have a SASI hard disk controller connected to the SB180's SCSI interface. I'm not sure if connecting a SCSI drive to a SASI controller will work, but probably will. Steve did an article in the May '86 issue of BYTE that describes SCSI, but doesn't go into any more detail about SASI/SCSI difference. You might try talking to NCR (who was heavily involved in the original standard specs). Msg#: 6481 *GENERAL* 08/19/88 18:44:31 From: ANDREAS DESSOFF To: KEN DAVIDSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 6462 (SCSI VS. SASI) Thank you, Ken. Would you have a phone no. for NCR? I am trying to find out as many facts as I can before buying a drive and controller ( I want to get a low-power drive with embedded SCSI controller). Thanks again! . . . . .. . . Andy Msg#: 6523 *GENERAL* 08/22/88 08:13:03 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: ANDREAS DESSOFF (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 6481 (SCSI VS. SASI) The latest I have is they are in Colorado Springs, CO, at (303) 596-5612 or (800) 525-2252. Msg#: 6575 *GENERAL* 08/22/88 22:43:07 From: ANDREAS DESSOFF To: KEN DAVIDSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 6523 (SCSI VS. SASI) Thanks again, Ken. I'll try that number. Msg#: 6485 *GENERAL* 08/19/88 23:05:40 From: PAUL CONE To: ALL Subj: LEARNING I would like to learn how to build and use microelectronic devices to control electromechanical things, such as small motors and solenoids, photocells and lights. I don't feel compelled to "invent" circuits. If kits or plans are available I would be happy to follow them. But, up to a point I'd like to understand what I'm doing instead of following someone else's plans. I have some programming experience. (Harper and Row published two of my books on BASIC programming.) I don't know much assembly language, but I am willing to learn more. I think I have the skills required to put circuits together. I have built Heath Kit stereos, for example. I would appreciate help to point me in the right direction to get started. Thank you. Msg#: 6546 *GENERAL* 08/22/88 10:40:03 From: STEVE CIARCIA To: PAUL CONE (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 6485 (LEARNING) Sounds like you should be reading Circuit Cellar INK. --Steve Msg#: 6596 *GENERAL* 08/23/88 08:59:33 From: PAUL CONE To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 6546 (LEARNING) Steve: Thank you for your reply. I will subscribe to your magazine. Msg#: 6491 *GENERAL* 08/20/88 07:07:42 From: LUC DE MEYER To: ALL USERS Subj: MODEM COMMS USING CONCORD V22 I would like to know if there is any user having similar problems to mine. I try to get into thet CCBBS using a concord data systems V22.bis modem but that doest seem to work. unfortunately that modem is totally Hayes-UNcompatible... it is just a dumb modem... I have been looking into the Hayes modems comms startup sequencing and I believe that that is were the problem lies... This concord ONLY can handle V22 (1200 bps) or V22.bis(2400 bps). The modem of the CCBBS (and other Hayes'es) seem to be unable to recognise the V22 (.bis) carrier and switch to that because (I think) my modem does not negotiate the start of the comms properly... Now the question... is there anyone who knows a lot about Hayes or the US ROBOTICS that the CCBBS have to confirm this ? If it is correct then I might have to go out and buy a faster (and Hayes-comp.)0modem but I'd hate to do that and then find out it wasn't necessary... Thanks for any help you might be able to give me... Luc De Meyer Msg#: 6535 *GENERAL* 08/22/88 08:47:17 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: LUC DE MEYER (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 6491 (MODEM COMMS USING CONCORD V22) I can confirm that the modems we use support only Bell 103 at 300 bps, Bell 212A at 1200 bps, and V.22bis at 2400 bps. If you're calling in at V.22 1200 and expecting the modems to shift up to 2400 bps, it probably won't work. If you can call in and start with 2400 bps, you have a chance. I don't know the modem you're talking about, so can't be much further help. Msg#: 6497 *GENERAL* 08/20/88 15:24:33 From: BENNIE BACON To: KEN DAVIDSON (Rcvd) Subj: BCC52 OPCODES . Ken I've been converting the BBC52 source code for the X-10 power line interface to run on a Z80 CPM system I plan on using as a home control system. The BCC52 source looks very similar to 8080 code with some differences. I'm not real up on 52 code and was wondering if you could verify a few of the opcodes for me. The opcodes in question are 'DJNZ' and 'CJNE'. Does DJNZ mean decrement indicated register (example: as in DJNZ B, TEST) I take it that it then compare's with zero and jumps on NZ to TEST. CJNE looks like a compare / jump instruction. Is this right??. Everything else looks stright forward to me. If I get this thing up in running, I'll see about uploading the souce code to the CCI BBS, if it's OK with you. Oh. by the way, I ordered the X-10 interface from Micromint on monday and recieved it on friday. Thats quick service. Thanks. Bennie Msg#: 6524 *GENERAL* 08/22/88 08:17:46 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: BENNIE BACON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 6497 (BCC52 OPCODES) Why not just start with the HD64180 code? Except for the timer stuff, it's identical to Z80 code. The DJNZ instruction always operates on the B register and does decrement the register, jumping if not zero. I haven't done a whole lot with 8052 code, but I'm quite sure the CJNZ (CJNE?) does a compare and jumps if the numbers are different. Msg#: 6843 *GENERAL* 08/28/88 11:59:09 From: BENNIE BACON To: KEN DAVIDSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 6524 (BCC52 OPCODES) The assembler I have for my cpm system is one provide by vector graphic. It uses a superset of the 8080 opcodes, don't ask me why. Vector was allways diferent I guess. I have several public domain z80 assemblers but have not had time to learn them. One more question. The time delay loops for the x-10 control program need to be adjusted for my machine. It's has a 5.1 Mhz clock. Do you know what the Bcc-52 clock rate is. Thanks for all the help. I have the program more or less converted for the vector, But have to play around with it a little more. I think the timing is off either at the zero-crossing or in the delay loops. Thanks again ..Ben Msg#: 6865 *GENERAL* 08/29/88 08:56:06 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: BENNIE BACON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 6843 (BCC52 OPCODES) The BCC52 uses an 11.0592-MHz crystal. You might be better off calculating timing loops from scratch rather than trying to convert code from another processor. You have to know exactly how many clock cycles each instruction takes to get good timings, and since you know what the final delay needs to be, the original 8052 code probably wouldn't do you much good. Msg#: 7125 *GENERAL* 09/03/88 10:53:19 From: BENNIE BACON To: KEN DAVIDSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 6865 (BCC52 OPCODES) I've been working on a timing loop based on my computers clock speed. (5.1 Mhz) However something is not quite right. I've stepped through the code and every thing seems to work correctly, with the proper house, key, and function code being read and outputed. It's got to be the timing. Oh. well. Thanks again for all the help. Ben. Msg#: 6500 *GENERAL* 08/20/88 20:24:18 From: JEFF HENSHAW To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: AC PWER LINE MODEM Steve - Don't I remember you doing an article on an AC powerline modem recently? This used circuitry similar to the Home Control System to transmit data over the household power lines. If I'm remembering right, where was this published? If not, is this included in some of you upcoming HCS projects? Thanx! Jeff Henshaw Msg#: 6542 *GENERAL* 08/22/88 10:24:32 From: STEVE CIARCIA To: JEFF HENSHAW (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 6500 (AC PWER LINE MODEM) I did a powerline modem similar to the recent design in Radio Electronics back in the early '80s. We have a new circuit using the NE5050 on the drawing boards (it's been prototyped and tested) but we don't like it. Trying to send data through the powerlines is crazy. A command here and there is fine but not reams of data. To make these modems really work we had to put I/O buffers on both ends with error checking. It was hardly an inexpensive modem when we finished. And yes, AC powerline modems like the one in RE can transmit 1200, 2400, even 9600 bps...... as long as you don't turn on the air conditioneer, vacuum cleaner, wireless intercom, dimmer controlled lights, etc......... String a wire! --Steve Msg#: 6851 *GENERAL* 08/28/88 21:11:42 From: JEFF HENSHAW To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 6542 (AC PWER LINE MODEM) I found your article in volume 5 of your Circuit Cellar books and am beginning to appreciate the problems. I was looking for a way to send small (1K - 10K) programs to up to 30 testers on a semiconductor manufacturer's final test floor. I needed a way that didn't involve stringing cables from a PC to every tester because they tend to move all over the floor as requirements change. It's a pain to string cable to every place you want to go, or move it/string new cable when a tester moves. An AC modem seemed ideal, since the "cable" was already there. It's easy enough to give each tester a unique ID and write a shell around a standard XMODEM library routine to address a single tester for download. However, since the factory is in Malaysia, the difficulties of this kind of transmission media pretty much eliminate it. Does anybody have any idea how I can do this relatively cheaply? Thanks! Msg#: 6895 *GENERAL* 08/29/88 15:04:58 From: ALEXANDER SCHNEIDER To: JEFF HENSHAW (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 6851 (AC PWER LINE MODEM) If the transmissions are unidirectional, you might try broadcasting the info via RF. You can buy relatively inexpensive systems (transmitter and receiver, under $100) that operate at 400 MHz, I think, and are designed for NTSC video transmission, but could easily be used for data transmission, and would be much quicker than the 60 baud you would get working off a power line. Alex Msg#: 6915 *GENERAL* 08/30/88 02:37:51 From: JEFF HENSHAW To: ALEXANDER SCHNEIDER (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 6895 (AC PWER LINE MODEM) That's an idea I may be forced to consider again. RF (or most analog) design is something that escapes me, I'm much more comfortable with software and digital hardware. I had thought about RF, but I'm not about to build and calibrate 30+ tranceivers. A modulator/demodulator for an existing tranceiver is an interesting thought, do you have any literature sources for these ? The system would not quite be unidirectional. There would be no data flow from individual testers to the central "broadcaster" PC, but handshaking during the file xfer is required which means that I have to have a transmitter as well as receiver at each tester. However, $100 per tester is pretty cheap, it shouldn't be hard to convince my client to pay that much! Thanks for the tip, Alex. Jeff Msg#: 6924 *GENERAL* 08/30/88 08:11:21 From: BOB PADDOCK To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 6542 (AC PWER LINE MODEM) Did you ever give a good look at doing a power line modem using spred-spect rum tecnics? There was a good write up by some one from HP in the IEEE jurnal awhile ago, there conclustion was the S-S was the only way to go, to get away from the noise problems. I'll see if I can find the exact issue. NEC is working on a S-S to compete with X-10. Msg#: 6943 *GENERAL* 08/30/88 10:40:33 From: RON WILSON To: JEFF HENSHAW (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 6915 (AC PWER LINE MODEM) I have some of the transmitters Alex mentioned. I don't think you can just feed data into the video input, you may need a modem Msg#: 6954 *GENERAL* 08/30/88 15:08:52 From: ALEXANDER SCHNEIDER To: JEFF HENSHAW (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 6915 (AC PWER LINE MODEM) PC Electronics (2522 Paxson Lane, Arcadia, CA, 91006-8537) sells a line of transmitters and downconverters that operate in the 420-450 MHz frequency range. The transmitters are designed to be modulated with NTSC video and audio, and the downconverters are designed to take that and convert it back to channel 3 to display on an ordinary tv. To operate it as a data transmission system, the most significant modification would be to have a receiver at the downconverter end and a way to hook up a modem to it, though that could be done relatively easily/efficiently. Both the downconverters and the transmitters run $89 a piece and require 12 volts, no great feat. You probably (definately) won't need the bandwidth provided by the high power video transmitters, so you could purchase one of their $15 420-450 MHz transmitters that don't have quite the range, but could easily handle standard data transmission rates. A working system could be set up at 420-450 MHz, 1240-1300 MHz, or 2.3-2.45 GHz, in case of frequency conflicts. Hope this helps you out. Alex Msg#: 6955 *GENERAL* 08/30/88 15:10:37 From: ALEXANDER SCHNEIDER To: RON WILSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 6943 (AC PWER LINE MODEM) A modem probably would be necessary, but if hte file sizes aren't too large, a very inexpensive 300 baud modem would work well. Alex Msg#: 6971 *GENERAL* 08/31/88 07:59:13 From: BOB PADDOCK To: ALEXANDER SCHNEIDER (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 6954 (AC PWER LINE MODEM) For the frequencys you listed you must have an amature radio lisence to operate a transmitter, also video is not allowed to in the 440-450 section of the band. Msg#: 7045 *GENERAL* 09/01/88 16:02:57 From: BOB PADDOCK To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 6542 (AC PWER LINE MODEM) Check out: "Pseudonoise Signalling for Power Line Carrier Applications" by Peter K. Van Der Gracth and Rober W. Donaldson, in IEEE Transactions on Power Delivery, Vol PWRD-1, No 1, Jan 1986. "Abstract - Direct sequence pseudonoise (PN) modulation for power line communications is examined, to overcome narroband impairments and to provide other operational advantages. Design issues considered include code sysnchronization means, processing gain optimization, PN code selection, modem impeadance level, operating frequency band, and data rates and protocols for various applications. Measurements using a protobype modem on distribuition lines show bit-error rates below 10^-4 at data rates up to 9600 bits/s." See also "Intrabuilding Data Transmission Using Power-Line Wiring" by Robert A. Piety, Hewlett-Packard Journal May 1987. "An investigation of the transfer and noise characteristics of intrabuildin g power lines had indicated the feasibility of their use for local data communications at data rates greater than 100 kbits/s. Within ceartain constraints, data rates of 1 Mbits/s or greater are possible. This paper discusses typical power-line characteristics in the 1-to-20-MHz readion and one implementation of a 100 Kbits/s spread spectrum data link operating in the 3.5 to 10.5 MHz range." To greatly over simplifi the problem, the vacuum cleaner generates noise at one frequency (wide band), the refridge at an other freq, the light dimmer at yet an other, ect... So if you hopp around enough with your data you are going to satisticly miss the noise (most of the time). Msg#: 7112 *GENERAL* 09/03/88 00:48:03 From: JEFF HENSHAW To: RON WILSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 6943 (AC PWER LINE MODEM) Yes, I'm sure I'd need to build a modem. I doubt there's a transmitter on the market that would take TTL/digital input. I can probably ignore the fact that it "wants" a 6 MHZ wide video signal, since the bandpass should be 0 - 6 MHZ. It ought to accept 2 or 3 KHZ carrier quite nicely. What kind of range do you get from these transmitters?? Jeff. Msg#: 7113 *GENERAL* 09/03/88 00:56:02 From: JEFF HENSHAW To: ALEXANDER SCHNEIDER (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 6954 (AC PWER LINE MODEM) Yes, it does. I'll dig up their phone # next week & give 'em a call. These sound pretty close to ideal for the project. By the time I build a modem for these, we're looking at about $300 per station - pretty cheap in my view. We'll see what my client thinks - I suspect he wants them for free (OK, less than 50 bucks) which just ain't gonna happen! Thanks for the help, guys. I didn't really expect anyone to reply at all, let alone supply all the help you have. I'll look into PC Electronics and write up a presentation for my client and let you know what happens. In the meantime, let's see if there's anybody *I* can help out on here. Jeff Msg#: 7189 *GENERAL* 09/06/88 10:37:05 From: RON WILSON To: BOB PADDOCK (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 6971 (AC PWER LINE MODEM) As I recall the upper end of the UHF TV Band is some where around 400 - 450 MHz (or is it the lower end? - I KNOW ther is at least ONE UHF TV channel in that area) Msg#: 7190 *GENERAL* 09/06/88 10:47:19 From: RON WILSON To: JEFF HENSHAW (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 7112 (AC PWER LINE MODEM) About 100 feet or so - should be better with a low band width signal. . I didn't mean to imply that one could connect TTL straight to the video input - a level converter could be used - BUT, the square waves of the digital data would probably create very messy modulation. (real video is INTENTIONALLY "smeared" a little - this technique does NOT lend well to digit data). Msg#: 7194 *GENERAL* 09/06/88 12:02:58 From: BOB PADDOCK To: RON WILSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 7189 (AC PWER LINE MODEM) I'll have to get a spectrum chart and look, but I know for sure the Ham band is 430->449.999 MHz. Msg#: 7311 *GENERAL* 09/09/88 03:48:32 From: JEFF HENSHAW To: RON WILSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 7190 (AC PWER LINE MODEM) I didn't think going with a straight TTL input would work, that's why a modem would be needed. It just occured to me that there is probably no need for me to build a modem, a commercial job would probably work just fine. Hmmm..I would probably have to pick the signal off the modem just before the DAA (phone line interface). What the heck does the DAA do to the signal anyway? I know why it's there, but what does it do & how? Back to the books, I guess... Thanks, Ron! Jeff Msg#: 7534 *GENERAL* 09/17/88 17:00:42 From: ALEXANDER SCHNEIDER To: BOB PADDOCK (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 6971 (AC PWER LINE MODEM) Evidently video is allowed there, because this company sells it! It does require a Technician class license to purchase, but I don't think the actualy operator needs a license. Alex Msg#: 7536 *GENERAL* 09/17/88 17:02:38 From: ALEXANDER SCHNEIDER To: JEFF HENSHAW Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 7113 (AC PWER LINE MODEM) You're welcome, do let us know how it turns out. Alex Msg#: 7576 *GENERAL* 09/19/88 08:00:57 From: BOB PADDOCK To: ALEXANDER SCHNEIDER Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 7534 (AC PWER LINE MODEM) The operation of ANY transmitter regardless of the mode of transmission (Video, Audio, Digital ect) requires that the operator have at least a Technician class license. Also the retransmission of other services (ie. Commertial TV) is strictly prohibited even if you do have a license. There have been many companys that have sold things under the guise of Amature Radio such as RADAR jammers sold as 10.5 GHz transcivers, these video transmitters fall in the same cattagory, soon or latter the FCC will close them down. I have never seen a video transmitter that has been type accecpted by the FCC (a requirment of all most all transmitters, the two acceptions are Amature Radio Transmitters build by a Ham, but not for sale as a commertial product, and transmitters that are vary low power [less than so many Micro Volts per Meter (Don't rember the numbers) such as FM wireless mics.]. Msg#: 7615 *GENERAL* 09/19/88 14:09:10 From: RON WILSON To: JEFF HENSHAW Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 7311 (AC PWER LINE MODEM) In the case of a modem, the DAA is basically an isolator and and current/voltage limiter. The basic component is an audio range matching/isolation transformer. There's not much to it, but the FCC cerification procedure is prohibitively expensive - thus, the DAA units themselved are priced high. Msg#: 6502 *GENERAL* 08/21/88 02:28:18 From: MITCHELL SPENCE To: ALL Subj: IMAGE RECORDING I know this will sound a bit off the wall, but hopefully there will be someone out there that can help me with this subject. I'm interested in interfacing a 16mm movie camera with single frame exposure/advance control with a film recorder. Is there anyone who knows of this having been done before--or perhaps has done it themselves? Thanks, Mitch Msg#: 6519 *GENERAL* 08/22/88 00:46:13 From: TIM FANNIN To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: BUS INFO . I am new to the CC board. Like a lot of people, I mess around with electronic projects in my spare time. I have recently moved up from a well documented Commodore 128 to an AT clone. I have done several hardware projects on the 128 and would like to do some on the AT. The problem I am having is finding documentation on the PC bus and its signals. I figured out how to transfer data back and forth and how to set I/O addresses but I am clueless about several of the other lines. For example: What IRQ lines (if any) can I use and how to use them; how (exactly not conceptually) does DMA transfer work on the PC. I understand the concepts but can not get the hardware specifics! I imagine the AT/XT reference manual would help but have been unable to find one and have heard that they are overpriced. I have seen several books that discuss the different bus lines but when it gets to explaining how to use them they say "This is beyond the scope of this book!". A book with some timing diagrams would help along with a sample assembly language driver program. Any Suggestions? . . Signed . Frustrated (Tim F.) . .PS Great article on the DDT-51!! It got me to subscribe to CCI! Msg#: 6544 *GENERAL* 08/22/88 10:31:48 From: STEVE CIARCIA To: TIM FANNIN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 6519 (BUS INFO) I remember seeing a similar question here last week and the answer is still valid. You should get a copy of the IBM PC/AT Technical reference manual. It will describe signals, circuits, and perhaps software (the PC one did at one time). Together with an Intel 80286 programmers manual you might learn something. Anyone else have any suggestions? --Steve Msg#: 6571 *GENERAL* 08/22/88 20:25:31 From: TIM FANNIN To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 6544 (BUS INFO) THANKS FOR THE INFORMATION!!! Msg#: 6657 *GENERAL* 08/24/88 10:12:13 From: JEFF BACHIOCHI To: TIM FANNIN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 6519 (BUS INFO) . Tim, . I can suggest a good book for you! HANDBOOK OF SOFTWARE & HARDWARE INTERFACING FOR THE IBM PC by JEFFREY P. ROYER pub by PRENTICE-HALL INC. ISBN 0-13-381849-7. . Covers: Introduction to Interfacing - Overview of Hardware - Overview of Operating System - Introduction to BIOS Services - Introduction to DOS Interrupts - Introduction to Diskettes - Accessing Disk Files - EXE Files - Memory Management - Installable Device Drivers - Display Adapters - Keyboard - CPU and I/O Channel - Interfacing to the I/O Channel - Inserting WAIT States - DMA - Understanding and Interfacing Interrupts - . Need I say more? jeff Msg#: 6682 *GENERAL* 08/24/88 21:57:04 From: TIM FANNIN To: JEFF BACHIOCHI (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 6657 (BUS INFO) . No! You needn't say more. That is the first book I have seen with HARDWARE and PC in the same title. I will check it out. . . . Thanks! . Tim Fannin . Msg#: 6533 *GENERAL* 08/22/88 08:40:15 From: BRIAN JOSEPH To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: KEEPING WARM W/BYTE..... Steve, I really would like to keep my back issues of Byte just because they contain SOME (not much!) useful info! I guess I could use them for fuel for my fireplace in the winter, but having Byte warm me up when the Editor et al are so cold just doesn't seem right!!!! Maybe I could rent a stadiumok or something and we could have an INK party/torch Byte!!! Everyone couldw3 bring their Bytes and we could provide the flame!!!!! (I juwt returned from Las Vegas....I think that I'm still a little drained.....:-) ) Brian. P.S. Sometimes when I get garbage on the line an "ok" comes up.......Is this from your modem??? Msg#: 6536 *GENERAL* 08/22/88 08:52:35 From: BRIAN JOSEPH To: ALL Subj: ST238R Is anyone aware of any problems with ST238Rs???? I've been having problems with mine and another person I know is also have probs. There are actually 2 problems: 1, sometimes{_ when the computer is cold, it sounds like the drive is trying to seek (it's supposed to on power-up), but only does it once. It normally does it about 3-4 times. The other prob is that while I'm using the computer, it sounds like the hard drive slows down, then speeds up. I put a volt meter on my AC line and found the power was around 90V !!! So, I bought a Line Stabilizer that maintains 110V-120V. The voltage is ok now, but the drive still acts up. I should mention that I had numerous probs when I first got this machine, but have managed to fix all of them except for this. Oh, the 238R is hooked up to an Adaptec RLL controler. I'm really getting fed-up with this thing!!!!!!! (one of the problems I had was that COM2xD: wouldn't work. I looked at the I/O card..the f___ing serial chip for COM2:w3 was UPSIDE DOWN!!!:-) ) I'll NEVER buy an assembled clone again!!! At least if I assemble it, everything will be RIGHTSIDE UP!!!! Thanks! Brian{ Msg#: 6576 *GENERAL* 08/22/88 22:45:38 From: TUNDRA SLOSEK To: ALL Subj: PGA BOAR(D) To all and any.... I am a mere and humble (snicker-snack) computer hacker/user (IBM) and I have recently picked up a Professional Graphics Controller board (used), yes, one of the IBM white elephant specials... I have been looking all around for some software that can take advantage of it, but I have found little or nothing. This is what I have found : 1.) Technical manual from IBM... this has been usefull (if hard to understand) for programming some simple 3-d animation, etc. 2.) EasyCAD (came to be via MicroSoft Mouse package) has a driver for it, but I have a Everex Micro-Enhancer (640x480 EGA) and a 10Mhz 80287, for drawing it is faster to use the main CPU. 3.) IBM no longer supports this thing, so the software that I see in the demo from IBM is no longer available. 4.) MicroSoft knows of no (Windows) driver for it (I would think that would be a simple/natural driver to write), but they did offer to let me buy the develop. kit and TRY to write my own (I do some programming, but I'm not that good yet)... 5.) I have heard that some places bought several of these when they came out and wrote software for it (harvard?)... Any idea if/how much$ such software could be gotten for? I have had some great ideas to use the thing, but I know almost nothing about it... Any information give me joyous hope... ---Tundra Callooh, Callay! C Msg#: 6600 *GENERAL* 08/23/88 09:12:01 From: CURT FRANKLIN To: TUNDRA SLOSEK (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 6576 (PGA BOAR(D)) AutoCad has a driver for the PGA. Since they have defined the ADI standard interface, you might be able to use their driver to model some of your own. Just get their driver, get a copy of the ADI spec, and you're off. (Of course, AutoCad will set you back around $2000 - $3000, but what's a little money when you need graphics, right?) Seriously, there's an Osborne/McGraw-Will book called "Graphics in C" that might have the information you need on getting a driver written. Good luck, and let us know how it turns out. Curt Franklin Msg#: 6604 *GENERAL* 08/23/88 09:50:13 From: STEVE CIARCIA To: TUNDRA SLOSEK (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 6576 (PGA BOAR(D)) Also, if you haven't got a monitor for it we have a couple Princeton SR-12P color displays new in the box and at cost. --Steve Msg#: 6626 *GENERAL* 08/23/88 21:52:03 From: TUNDRA SLOSEK To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 6604 (PGA BOAR(D)) Thanks for the monitor offer... But I have a NEC MultiSync, and it works very nicely. I have been thinking of getting another monitor tho... to use both the EGA and PGA together... How much $$$ are we talking about? Msg#: 6654 *GENERAL* 08/24/88 09:57:47 From: STEVE CIARCIA To: TUNDRA SLOSEK (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 6626 (PGA BOAR(D)) At the time they were selling for about $1000-$1100 retail, we picked up a few as evaluation units for $525 each. Still new in the box. BTW, their dot pitch is better than most other monitors for PGA. --Steve Msg#: 6581 *GENERAL* 08/23/88 00:39:21 From: DAVID WILLIAMS To: ALL Subj: PC BOARD LAYOUT PROGRAMS Does anyone know of a shareware or public domain schematic capture / pc layout / autorouter for pc clones? The commercial versions are about $495 per module. Msg#: 6597 *GENERAL* 08/23/88 09:03:45 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: DAVID WILLIAMS (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 6581 (PC BOARD LAYOUT PROGRAMS) This question gets asked here at least once a month, so I'm sure the regulars are getting tired of answering it. Most of the old threads are still on-line. If you do a selective search on the subject fields for strings such as "PCB," "SCHEM," and "LAYOUT," I'm sure you'll find lots of good information already posted here. Go to the main message menu, select All the message areas, Read messages, and do a Selective search. Msg#: 6966 *GENERAL* 08/30/88 23:57:06 From: DAVID WILLIAMS To: KEN DAVIDSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 6597 (PC BOARD LAYOUT PROGRAMS) Thanks, Ken - it's like acting... there's always a new audience. I appreciate the answer to an old question. Msg#: 6583 *GENERAL* 08/23/88 01:13:27 From: LARRY KENNY To: CPM USERS Subj: Z8 CROSS ASSEMBLER DOES ANYONE HAVE A CROSS ASSEMBLER FOR THE Z8 chip THAT RUNS ON CPM 2.2??? Msg#: 6585 *GENERAL* 08/23/88 02:20:27 From: ALLAN LONG To: ALL Subj: TEXT TO SPEECH I guess that this will show my true blue nature but there is a public domain program for the IBM PC and compatibles that uses phonemes(sp?) to let you enter lines of phoneme text and hear a weird sounding speech (kinda like little richard on steroids). I am only assuming that it can be called from a batch file. As you know the IBM tone chip is really retarded but this program if properly de-compiled and reverse engineered might be a good starting point for someone interested in text to speech. I kinda wiped it off my harddisk (it was lame and anyway I have enough PEOPLE talking to me, much less my AT) but if someone wants it I will get it and post it here. LEMEKNOW Msg#: 6587 *GENERAL* 08/23/88 02:40:37 From: HAROLD BOE To: ALL Subj: IBM AT PORT 61H BIT 4 THIS QUESTION IS REALLY BASIC AND I HOPE SOMEONE OUT THERE WILL TAKE THE TIME TO HELP ME OUT HERE. I NEED TO KNOW WHAT IS HAPPENING AT PORT 61H ON AN IBM AT, SPECIFICALLY BIT 4. IT SEEMS TO BE BEHAVING IN A CLOCK LIKE FUNCTION; CYCLING BETWEEN 0 AND 1 AT REGULAR INTERVALS THAT ARE PROCCESSING SPEED INDEPENDANT. ANY INFO WOULD BE APPRECIATED. THANKS. Msg#: 6619 *GENERAL* 08/23/88 20:40:38 From: STEVE NOBLE To: HAROLD BOE (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 6587 (IBM AT PORT 61H BIT 4) Harold, I looked up the assignments of the AT ports in Peter Norton's Programmer's Guide to the PC. He says ports 60-6F are used for keyboard controller 8052. Maybe there's a clue there. Msg#: 6620 *GENERAL* 08/23/88 20:46:55 From: STEVE NOBLE To: HAROLD BOE (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 6587 (IBM AT PORT 61H BIT 4) Aaargh, sorry. That should be 8042. Msg#: 6839 *GENERAL* 08/28/88 01:42:11 From: HAROLD BOE To: STEVE NOBLE Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 6620 (IBM AT PORT 61H BIT 4) Thanks Steve. I would guess that port 61h is used differently in the AT than in the PC. It would be helpfull for me to get more info on both cases as I need to provide a similar service for both PC's and AT's. The documentation that I have is PC only and it is old. It says that port 61H is a ram partiy enable bit. Is this info correct? Your help is appreciated. Msg#: 6590 *GENERAL* 08/23/88 06:00:01 From: RICHARD WYMAN To: SYSOP (Rcvd) Subj: DISK HELP I NEED SOME HELP TRYING TO ADD A DISK DRIVE (HARD AND/OR FLOPPY) TO AN EARLY MODEL LAPTOP COMPUTER. THE COMPUTER IS A HEATH/ZENITH ZP150 LAPTOP THAT CAME OUT WHEN LAPTOPS DIDN'T HAVE DISK DRIVES. THE ONLY INFORMATION I COULD GET OUT OF HEATH/ZENITH WAS A PINOUT OF THE EXPANSION PORT AS WELL AS THE OTHER PORTS (IE. SERIAL, PARALLEL, CASSETTE). I EVEN TRIED THE COMPANY THAT LICENSED THE COMPUTER TO HEATH/ZENITH BUT KEPT GETTING THE RUN AROUND BETWEEN CA & NY. THE EXPANSION BUSS HAS 60 PINS. I HAVE FIGURED OUT THE CLOCK, IOCHRDY RESET, MEMRD, IORD, ALE, THE 20 ADDRESS LINES, THE 8 DATA LINES, DMAAEN, IOWR, MEMWR, 2 GROUNDS, IRQ 2-7. I DON'T UNDERSTAND THE Vent, IO/-H (SLANT HYPHEN IS A SLANT OVERSCORE OVER THE H), EXT HRQ, RDYDMA, MEMEN (OVERSCORED), EXT, EPWC, EPWD, EXT HOLDA, DT/-R, EXTMEM (OVERSCORED), DACK BRD (OVERSCORED), AND DRQ0. THE COMPUTER USES AN 80C88 PROCESSOR, AND HAS AN 80x14 LCD DISPLAY, 1P 1S PORT, BAR CODE INTERFACE, CASSETTE TAPE INTERFACE, ACCOUSTIC COUPLER INTERFACE, AND BUILT-IN 300 BAUD MODEM. IT INCLUDES AN EARLY SUBSET OF MICROSOFT WORKS IN REMOVEABLE ROM MODULES, MICROSOFT AND THE SUPPLIED MANUAL AREN'T MUCH HELP EITHER. THE SOFTWARE IN ROM DOES ALLOW FOR A DISK DRIVE, BUT THE MACHINE WAS DROPPED IN FAVOR OF THE Z171 LAPTOP, AND NO SUPPORT IS AVAILABLE FOR ANY THING OTHER THAN MEMORY INSTALLATION. I HAVE SPENT OVER A YEAR OFF AND ON CALLING COMPANIES FROM CALIFORNIA TO NEW YORK AND JUST ABOUT EVERY PLACE IN BETWEEN, BUT HAVE GOTTEN NOWHERE. I READ CIRCUIT CELLAR IN BYTE AND HAVE A SUBSCRIPTION TO BYTE. I DON'T KNOW A LOT ABOUT COMPUTER AND PERIPHERAL DESIGN, BUT I'M LEARNING. I CAN'T GET A SCHEMATIC OF THE COMPUTER AND I DON'T UNDERSTAND THE SOME OF THE BUSS SIGNALS BECAUSE I HAVEN'T BEEN ABLE TO FIND THEM IN PC OR DISK SCHEMATICS. I THINK A WOULD HAVE TO ADD A FEW IC'S TO GET THE OTHER SIGNALS TO BE WHAT THEY ARE ON A PC BUSS SINCE THE DRQ AND DACK SIGNALS ARE MISSING, UNLESS SOME OF THOSE ODD NAMED PINS ARE THE EQUIVELENT. YOU DO A LOT OF DE SIGNING FOR THE CIRCUIT CELLAR AND INK ARTICLES, SO I WAS WONDERING IF POSSIBLY YOU COULD GIVE ME SOME IDEAS ON A DESIGN, OR KNOW SOMEONE THAT COULD, OR AT LEAST HELP ME UNDERSTAND WHAT THOSE OTHER PINS SIGNALS ARE. THANKS FOR TAKING THE TIME TO READ THIS. RICHARD WYMAN Msg#: 6594 *GENERAL* 08/23/88 08:47:01 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: RICHARD WYMAN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 6590 (DISK HELP) I'm afraid I can't be much help here. I don't do a lot with the IBM PC bus, so don't know what you'd need to do with your signals to make the computer look like the PC bus. I've forwarded your message to a public message area in hopes that someone else more familiar with the IBM bus can offer some suggestions. Anyone want to jump in? Msg#: 6640 *GENERAL* 08/24/88 04:01:30 From: RICHARD WYMAN To: KEN DAVIDSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 6594 (DISK HELP) THANKS FOR TAKING THE TIME TO READ MY MSG. MAYBE SOMEONE ELSE KNOWS HOW I CAN TIE THOSE MISC. PINS INTO A DISK CONTROLLER. ITS JUST A MATTER OF KEEP TRYING TO FIGURE IT OUT. THERES STILL PLENTY OF MICRO DEVICE BOOKS THAT I HAVEN'T LOOKED INTO YET. PERSISTENCE IS THE KEY. THANKS. Msg#: 6609 *GENERAL* 08/23/88 13:08:57 From: BYRON BLAKE To: ALL Subj: HISTORY.EXE? Good Afternoon Folks, I am looking for an IBM COMPATIBLE program (mostly likely .EXE but stored as .ARC) called History.Exe The program gives a report on all DOS commands used during any given session. More or less a DOS command log record. Help in finding and/or obtaining this program will be greatly appreciated. Byron Blake, KA1ILI Msg#: 6628 *GENERAL* 08/23/88 22:06:28 From: TUNDRA SLOSEK To: BYRON BLAKE (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 6609 (HISTORY.EXE?) I have a short PD program called DOSEDIT that may do what you want. Cursor keys scroll through a list of commands entered so far (I don't know how many it stores) and you can execute any command by hitting return. It is very useful for re-assembling/re-running programs during development. If this interests you let me know. - Tundra Msg#: 6664 *GENERAL* 08/24/88 14:51:12 From: BYRON BLAKE To: TUNDRA SLOSEK (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 6628 (HISTORY.EXE?) The Dosit (sp?!?) program very much interests me...re: History.Exe Thanks, Byron Msg#: 6617 *GENERAL* 08/23/88 19:45:38 From: DAN KLAFFKE To: JAY WELENSKY Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 98 (MODEM) No problems or garbage when calling from the Los Angeles area... My opinion is that as technology has develeped better modems there are less problems... I have used quite a few.. I have owned more than 15 different modems and some were just better than others.. I have had noise problems but it was usually only on an indivigual case... Msg#: 6618 *GENERAL* 08/23/88 19:46:53 From: DAN KLAFFKE To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 108 (INK -- BACK ISSUES) Well its August and I still want to get the first issue.... Msg#: 6653 *GENERAL* 08/24/88 09:54:23 From: STEVE CIARCIA To: DAN KLAFFKE (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 6618 (INK -- BACK ISSUES) Best way to get the first issue of CC INK is to send a check for $4 to CC INK, 4 Park Street, Vernon, CT 06084. It will be shipped first class the next day. --Steve Msg#: 6670 *GENERAL* 08/24/88 17:36:44 From: DAN KLAFFKE To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 6653 (INK -- BACK ISSUES) Thanks... Will get a check in the mail for that first issue... Msg#: 6630 *GENERAL* 08/23/88 22:36:36 From: IAN BAYNE To: ALL Subj: STORRS BBS There is a very new BBS in Storrs CT, it runs from 9am.-6pm. and you can only log on at 300 Baud for now, well the number is 203-429-8183 Msg#: 6639 *GENERAL* 08/24/88 03:52:23 From: KELLY HUGHES To: BRIAN JOSEPH (Rcvd) Subj: PHONE ANSWERER FOR MODEM Brian, I was looking through messages here, and came across your message about the circuit to count rings, answer the phone, and pull in a relay. It just happens that I have just gotten through making a circuit to do just that. It is currently in operation on my system. Although I use it to bring up the entire system (with a ringback bbs in autoexec), you could certainly use it to fire up a modem. If you would like to see the circuit, I'd be happy to send you a photocopy of the diagram. It takes 3 LS chips and (with the addition of three more chips, including a DTMF decoder) it can remotely control eight relays. Ring count could be read in from a dip switch, although I hardwired mine. Drop me a line with your address in it if you want a copy. Msg#: 6641 *GENERAL* 08/24/88 07:26:57 From: BRIAN JOSEPH To: KELLY HUGHES Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 6639 (PHONE ANSWERER FOR MODEM) Kelly, My address is 2922 W. Lunt Chicago, IL 60645. Thanks alot! Brian. Msg#: 6662 *GENERAL* 08/24/88 10:41:40 From: STEVE CIARCIA To: KELLY HUGHES Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 6639 (PHONE ANSWERER FOR MODEM) Sounds like a good one page "From the Bench" (a new column starting in issue #5) circuit for CC INK. Why not drop Curt Franklin a line or just send in a schematic and description. --Steve Msg#: 7030 *GENERAL* 09/01/88 08:57:03 From: ERIC SCHUYLER To: KELLY HUGHES Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 6639 (PHONE ANSWERER FOR MODEM) Kelly, If it isn't too much trouble, could you send me a copy of your phone answerer circuit? If you want a SASE, please let me know. My address is: Eric B. Schuyler 81 Yorktown Road Snyder, NY 14226 Thanks!! Msg#: 6642 *GENERAL* 08/24/88 07:30:55 From: BRIAN JOSEPH To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: GEOGRAPHY LESSON..... Steve, I'll be in Boston on the 12th of September. I was wondering if CCI was close to Boston, and if it is, would it be ok to stop in and say "Hi!"? I suppose if they ever taught geography in school, I'd already know the answer!!!! Thanks!!!! Brian. Msg#: 6658 *GENERAL* 08/24/88 10:12:41 From: STEVE CIARCIA To: BRIAN JOSEPH (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 6642 (GEOGRAPHY LESSON.....) CC INK is about 100 miles from Boston (about half way between Boston and New York). Our place is a zoo generally and we don't get many guests but you are welcome to drop by and bend Curt's ear about INK. Sometimes I'm here too. --Steve Msg#: 6686 *GENERAL* 08/24/88 23:18:58 From: THOMAS BARNETT To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: CATALOGS Does Micro Mint have a catalog of devies and boards it offers, if so how do I get one. Thanks. -Thomas- Msg#: 6703 *GENERAL* 08/25/88 09:28:36 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: THOMAS BARNETT (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 6686 (CATALOGS) Either leave me Email with your address or give the sales line a call at (800) 635-3355 and ask for a catalog. Msg#: 6746 *GENERAL* 08/25/88 20:32:05 From: TERRY ROSE To: KEN DAVIDSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 6703 (CATALOGS) Seeing how many people ask about Micromint catalogs, why don't you post it with the information at the logon? Just a nosey suggestion................. ......Terry :-) Msg#: 6763 *GENERAL* 08/26/88 08:01:33 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: TERRY ROSE (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 6746 (CATALOGS) I suppose that could be arranged. Good idea. Ay first I thought you were suggesting having the catalog on-line. While that would definitely be nice, it would definitely not be a trivial task to do. Msg#: 6906 *GENERAL* 08/29/88 20:41:10 From: TERRY ROSE To: KEN DAVIDSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 6763 (CATALOGS) I would sure hate to be the one who puts the catalog on line! That's a lot of information................Terry :-) Msg#: 6690 *GENERAL* 08/25/88 00:54:27 From: MARTIN TRACY To: ALL Subj: REAL-TIME CONVENTION AND CONTEST REAL-TIME PROGRAMMING CONVENTION November 18 -19, 1988 Grand Hotel, Anaheim, California The 1988 Real-Time Programming Convention is sponsored by the Forth Interest Group. The theme will be Real Time Programming Systems. The invited speakers are Jef Raskin, head of the original Macintosh development team and inventor of the Canon Cat, and Ray Duncan, wel-known author and expert on IBM PC Operating Systems. Both speakers have made extensive use of Forth, a language especially suited to real-time applications. There is a call for presentations on topics in the following areas: PROGRAMMING ENVIRONMENTS Real-time Operating Systems Language-oriented RISC machines Parallel processing Languages for Data Acquisition and Analysis Robotics and Real-time Device Control APPLICATIONS Aerospace Medical Laboratory Machine Vision Digital Signal Processing Robotics Automation Instrumentation INTELLIGENT DEVICES Intelligent Instrumentation Working Neural Nets Adaptive devices Software Peripheral Controllers Presentations may be either talks or demonstrations. Talks are limited to fifteen minutes. Please submit an abstract of the talk and a request for any audio-visual assistance by October 15. Demonstrations may accompany the talk or appear separately throughout the convention. Please send a description of the demonstration and its requirements by October 15. Abstracts and descriptions should be sent to: REAL-TIME PROGRAMMING CONVENTION Forth Interest Group PO Box 8231 San Jose, CA 95155 WANTED $1000 REWARD for the World's Fastest Programmer. Be the first to put our mystery gizmo through its paces and win $1000! Use any computer, any software. The showdown is at the Real-Time Programming Convention, Nov 18-19, Anaheim, Calif. For complete rules, write: REAL-TIME PROGRAMMING CONVENTION Forth Interest Group PO Box 8231 San Jose, CA 95155 Msg#: 6695 *GENERAL* 08/25/88 02:31:54 From: KEN HOWELL To: ALL Subj: PC PURSUIT O.k., what gives with PCP? Iknow that the outdial modem works, because when I dial "c d/cthar/12,, " I get the connect messages. But, when I dial this BBS, I always get a busy signal! Is the node not fully operational yet? --Ken. Msg#: 6704 *GENERAL* 08/25/88 09:36:26 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: KEN HOWELL (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 6695 (PC PURSUIT) I guess things are going to start getting interesting now. I've been checking on the status of the Hartford outdial every so often, but not in the last week or so. I'll do some experimenting tonight to find out if there are any problems with the node. It could be that you were running into actual busy signals. Within just the past 5-6 weeks, we've gone from an average of 70-80 calls per day to around 150 calls per day, so the modems are busy more often. If you still get busy signals, try calling an alternate 1200-bps modem at 871-0549. That one is still the least active incoming line. Msg#: 6706 *GENERAL* 08/25/88 09:51:11 From: RON WILSON To: KEN HOWELL (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 6695 (PC PURSUIT) Speeking of new PC-Pursuit locations - I've been waiting until certain cities are available before subscribing. There used to be a public access BBS I could call and the latest list of callable cities - but this is no reachable despite the fact that Telenet continues to post the phone in their other BBS (the one you call to enter your subscription (as oppesed to calling a human rep)). Any one know where I can get a current list (the ones they out by "normal" mail are a year old)? Thanks in advance. - Ron Msg#: 6729 *GENERAL* 08/25/88 18:06:55 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: RON WILSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 6706 (PC PURSUIT) When I've confirmed that the Hartford outdial is working, I plan on posting complete PCP information, including exchange lists, so if you can wait a week or two, I'll have the information here. In checking with Telenet's PCP support BBS, others reported the same busy problems with the Hartford outdial a few days ago. No response from the sysop so far. Msg#: 6770 *GENERAL* 08/26/88 09:14:18 From: RON WILSON To: KEN DAVIDSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 6729 (PC PURSUIT) Thanks. I can wait. Msg#: 7171 *GENERAL* 09/05/88 23:27:10 From: KEN HOWELL To: KEN DAVIDSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 6704 (PC PURSUIT) PCP is still not working all the time, at least from my location. I still get " not operating." --Ken. Msg#: 7181 *GENERAL* 09/06/88 08:22:08 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: KEN HOWELL (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 7171 (PC PURSUIT) That's interesting. The last time I tried it, I was able to connect with a modem, but always got a busy when dialing. The people in charge have confirmed that there are telco problems. I'll have to try it again tonight. I fully understand the problem having to deal with Southern New England Telephone. Msg#: 6699 *GENERAL* 08/25/88 08:47:47 From: CHUCK FRYAR To: ALL Subj: PROJECTION TV Can anyone point me to some literature on projection tv - specifically lens systems, brightness requirements, etc. I'm looking at projecting initially monochrome 1024 x 800 onto a 6' by 8' screen (later using r g & b filters) for my home media room. Dreams include digitally enhanced super VHS tapes mixed with computer data etc. Thanks, ++ Chuck ++ Msg#: 6707 *GENERAL* 08/25/88 09:55:30 From: RON WILSON To: CHUCK FRYAR (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 6699 (PROJECTION TV) Why don't you look at one the kits in the Heath catalog? (Yes, they do have one or two projection TV kits - I think one of them arround $1500) Msg#: 6711 *GENERAL* 08/25/88 10:36:45 From: STEVE CIARCIA To: CHUCK FRYAR (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 6699 (PROJECTION TV) I own two projection TVs: a 48" Pioneer and a 6 1/2 foot Kloss Model 2000. Cost is proportional to resolution. The Model 2000 has an RGB/CGA (it can be tweeked to handle EGA) as well as composite video input. Two years ago it cost $7000! You might be looking at over $10,000 for a color projector with the resolution you mentioned. A good company for monochrome projectors is Electrohome but you are still talking probable $4000 for high resolution. The projection TV that you see in stereo shops, etc, aren't very high resolution and most don't handle RGB inputs. --Steve Msg#: 6730 *GENERAL* 08/25/88 18:09:28 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: CHUCK FRYAR (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 6699 (PROJECTION TV) If you can stand a slightly smaller screen, Mitsubishi makes some of the best rear-projection screens I've seen. The units can be monsters in size, though. Msg#: 7138 *GENERAL* 09/04/88 00:43:44 From: CHUCK FRYAR To: RON WILSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 6707 (PROJECTION TV) Ron - Sorry for the delay in gettin back to you. I have seen heaths, but I am holding out for high resolution - probably home made. Thanks ++ Chuck Msg#: 7139 *GENERAL* 09/04/88 00:46:35 From: CHUCK FRYAR To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 6711 (PROJECTION TV) Steve - Thanks for the reply. Sorry it's been so long answering, I'm getting ready to go on vacation for 2 weeks. High resolution is a must, to the point of not bothering with anything less. I may play with projection of hi brightness screens and projecting myself, anyway, back to research for a while. Thanks again, and thanks for a SUPER bbs. +++ chuck Msg#: 7140 *GENERAL* 09/04/88 00:47:36 From: CHUCK FRYAR To: KEN DAVIDSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 6730 (PROJECTION TV) Thanks for the reply ken, I'll see what theyve got. You might want to check my reply to Steve, and see you in two weeks. ++ Chuck Msg#: 7191 *GENERAL* 09/06/88 10:51:40 From: RON WILSON To: CHUCK FRYAR (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 7138 (PROJECTION TV) The only even moderately high resolution I know of for less than $50,000 is made by Proton; cost is $15,000. - Good luck. Msg#: 7635 *GENERAL* 09/19/88 21:51:23 From: CHUCK FRYAR To: RON WILSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 7191 (PROJECTION TV) Thanks Ron, it looks like I may have to modify my needs. +++ Chuck Msg#: 6712 *GENERAL* 08/25/88 11:55:23 From: MATTHEW LEVINE To: ALL Subj: TI HELP!!! DOES ANYONE HAVE ANY IDEAS ON HOW TO OPEN THE RS232 PORT AND RUN A HAYES PROTO MODEM FROM TI-99/4A EXTENDED BASIC SO I DON'T HAVE TO KEEP SWITCHING BETWEEN THE EB AND THE TERMINAL EMULATOR MODULES WHEN I WANT TO ACCESS A BBS ? ->->-> MATT <-<-<- Msg#: 6992 *GENERAL* 08/31/88 12:22:40 From: ANDREAS DESSOFF To: MATTHEW LEVINE (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 6712 (TI HELP!!!) I don't really understand what you mean by "opening the RS232 port" on the TI 99/4a, however here are some suggestions that I hope will help you. 1) The TE-2 cartridge is hopelessly outdated and very inconvenient. There have been other much better terminal emulators available for many years. When I was using a 99/4a (about 2 years ago by now), my favorite was TE-3. Another excellent one is FastTerm by Paul Charlton. TE-3 is in the public domain, while FastTerm is a Fairware product for which Paul Charlton requests a donation (maybe around $15?). There are still some other terminal programs worthwhile looking into for the 99/4a. The newer terminal programs can usually be loaded directly from the XB cartridge. 2) A very good bulletin board for the 99/4a is TI Source at (516)475-6463. If you call, say hi for me to the sysop Steve Lombardi. 3) I don't know the particular modem that you have, but a good trick to know is that you cannot use a straight cable between the RS232 port and the modem - you need one that interchanges lines 2 an 3 (send and receive data). Also the TI serial port is really 2 ports in one, i.e. by use of a Y-cable you get to use both RS232/1 and RS232/2 from the same card and connector. In some cases it's a good idea to use either a Y-cable or a custom-wired adapter to plug the modem cable into, rather than connecting the modem cable directly to the TI serial port. It depends on the exact pin-out of the modem. I hope that all of this will get you started! . . . . . . . . . . .Andy. Msg#: 6995 *GENERAL* 08/31/88 13:30:36 From: MATTHEW LEVINE To: ANDREAS DESSOFF (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 6992 (TI HELP!!!) ANDY , THANKS FOR A MOST INFORMATIVE REPLY. IT SOUNDS LIKE I MAY HAVE A "NEW" COMPUTER COMMING SOFTWARE WISE , OR EVEN AN UPGRADE FROM EXPENSIVE TOY TO INEXPENSIVE WORKHORSE . . THANKS AGAIN , ->->-> MATT <-<-<- Msg#: 7009 *GENERAL* 08/31/88 17:15:07 From: MATTHEW LEVINE To: ANDREAS DESSOFF (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 6992 (TI HELP!!!) ANDY , DIDN'T HAVE TIME FOR A PROPER REPLY . 1) I WOULD BE INTERESTED IN LOCATING ANY XB LOADABLE COMMUNICATIONS SOFTWARE , BUT I CAN'T SPENT MUCH IN THE WAY OF LONG DISTANCE CHARGES TO OUT OF STATE BBS'S . 23) I AM USING A TANDY DCM-7 300 BPS HAYES PROTOCOL MODEM WITH A PROPERLY MODIFIED "Y" CABLE SO THAT MUCH IS WORKING AS EVIDENCED BY THIS TRANSACTION . . THE "OPENING" OF THE RS232 I REFERREDTO IS THE PROCEDURE IN XB WHERE THE RS232 AND PIO PORTS ARE OPENED AND THEREBY ACCESSED IN THE SAME MANNER AS ARE FILES ON DISK OR CASSETTE . I HAVE NO TROUBLE "PRINTING" AN OUTPUT THROUGH THE PORT AND THROUGH THE MODEM IN THIS MANNER . HOWEVER , I CAN'T SEEM TO GET DATA FROM THE MODEM THROUGH THE PORT AND INTO THE COMPUTER WITHOUT GETTING AN ERROR MESSAGE FOLLOWED BY IMMEDIATE TERMINATION OF THE PROGRAM . I HAVE TRIED EVERY POSSIBLE COMBINATION OF "OPEN STATEMENT" OPTIONS AND DEFAULTS THAT CAN BE TRIED AND AM THUS "AGAINST THE WALL" . I THANK YOU FOR AND APPRECIATE ALL THE HELP , ->->-> MATT <-<-<- Msg#: 7020 *GENERAL* 08/31/88 22:20:31 From: ANDREAS DESSOFF To: MATTHEW LEVINE (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 6995 (TI HELP!!!) Mathew, I forgot to say one thing because it seemed so logical . . . The newer TI terminal emulators usually require you to have a disk system. I assumed that you had one, but since TE-II runs without disks I came to remember that you might not have an expansion box. I hope that you do. . . . . Andy. Msg#: 7021 *GENERAL* 08/31/88 22:28:03 From: ANDREAS DESSOFF To: MATTHEW LEVINE (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 7009 (TI HELP!!!) I see your problem now. I don't think that you will be able to use XBASIC to write a terminal program - which seems is what you want to do. When you read or write a file through one of the serial ports using XB, you are reading or writing RECORDS. Records are terminated by a carriage return, or line feed, or both. This works fine for record I/O, but when you have a terminal program you need to deal with the individual characters as they come in or need to be sent out. You cannot do this in XB. Sorry about the bad news. . . . . . Andy. Msg#: 7047 *GENERAL* 09/01/88 17:14:14 From: MATTHEW LEVINE To: ANDREAS DESSOFF (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 7021 (TI HELP!!!) ANDY , WHY CAN'T A LINE OF DISPLAY TYPE DATA ( ENDING WITH A CR AND/OR LF BE INPUTTED THROUGH THE PORT AND DISPAYED ON SCREEN AND/OR PRINTED TO A DSK FILE JUST LIKE ANY OTHER RECORD FROM ANY OTHER SCOURCE ? WHEN READING MESSAGES ON A BBS , CHARACTER ECHO IS NOT REQUIRED BY A BBS ( AS FAR AS I CAN TELL BY WATCHING THE TRANS. DATA LED ON THE MODEM ) TO MAINTAIN THE DATA STREAM . . . > THERE MUST BE A WAY ! < OH WELL , WE'LL CRACK THIS ONE SOMEHOW ! . THANKS FOR THE HELP , ->->-> MATT <-<-<- Msg#: 7060 *GENERAL* 09/02/88 00:34:09 From: ANDREAS DESSOFF To: MATTHEW LEVINE (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 7047 (TI HELP!!!) Matt, you certainly can input display type s3W>$sa%ztrings through the serial port}i. It seems to me that in your determination to get this to work you did not quite understand the meaning of my message. In any case, if you really want to understand what is happening and what could work and what could not work, I would recommend that you study the specifications of the TI TMS 9902A Asynchronous Communications Controller, as well as the the ROM code of the RS232 card, the code oxDf the TE-II terminal emulator, and your modems use of the RS-232 lines. I can tell you for sure that you cannot write a terminal program in Extended Basic}i., although you CAN send display type strings through the srial port in both directions. ~rH{_owe~rver I am by now too far technically removed from the TI computer to remember sufficient details to explain why it won't work. Good Luck! . . . . .Andy Msg#: 7072 *GENERAL* 09/02/88 08:03:51 From: MATTHEW LEVINE To: ANDREAS DESSOFF (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 7060 (TI HELP!!!) ANDY , THANKS FOR THE REF. MATERIAL . I'LL HAVE TO LOOK IT UP AND GIVE IT A CAREFUL GOING OVER SO IF NOTHING ELSE , I'LL AT LEAST HAVE AN UNDERSTANDING OF WHAT IS GOING ON . . THANKS , ->->-> MATT <-<-<- Msg#: 7133 *GENERAL* 09/03/88 22:56:33 From: ANDREAS DESSOFF To: MATTHEW LEVINE (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 7072 (TI HELP!!!) Okay - good luck! . . . . . . . Andy. Msg#: 6715 *GENERAL* 08/25/88 12:46:00 From: JOHN MEALEY To: JEFF JENSEN (Rcvd) Subj: 8080 Jeff; Have had trouble getting the maunuals, I think that their in the garage under an old tractor in boxes from yesteryear...going to send box today 8-25-88 to get that to you. I will look for the manuals this weekend and if I find them, send them allong. The folks here at the office could not believe that the box I brought in was "really" a computer. Heh, Heh, oh well. On to something else, why would you want to use a 8751 versus the 8031 w/epromm? I was reading the lastest Byte (a sour w and I thought all the stuff Steve was building was around a 8031. I've ordered a lot of stuff based on the July Byte (ugh) and hope that it is not wasted. I am going to get a lot of wire wrapping stuf & prototype sockets etc next week for the 8751 stuff to. I guess I will have to learn to wire wrap. -later Msg#: 6735 *GENERAL* 08/25/88 18:30:13 From: JEFF JENSEN To: JOHN MEALEY (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 6715 (8080) John, I must have been unclear in a message. I am using the 8052AH microcontroller with BASIC in ROM. It is similar to an 8051 with more memory and, of course, BASIC. If I'm not mistaken, the 8751 is an 8051 with built-in EPROM. It takes a microcontroller programmer to program the EPROM, but makes the external EPROM unnecessary. If you have your code stable, or need to reduce space requirements, the 8751 might be just the answer. - Good to talk to you this afternoon! - - Jeff Msg#: 6716 *GENERAL* 08/25/88 13:06:31 From: DAN KARMANN To: JEFF JENSEN (Rcvd) Subj: AUTOMOTIVE HANDBOOK Jeff, I've been following your messages and thought I'd put in my 2 cents on the Automotive Handbook from Intel. In my opinion, if you already have the 2 volumes of the Embedded Controller Handbook and the Embedded Control Applications book, then the Automotive Handbook is mostly redundant information, especially if you have to pay for it. The Automotive Handbook is mostly info on Intel's EPROMs, 8051 family and 80196 family of processors. The only things not in the other mentioned books is some info on what Intel calls the Controller Area Network (CAN) for in vehicle networking of electronics systems and their data sheet on the 82526 Controller Area Network chip. Also new in the Automotive Handbook is info on the 80C51GB chip, which is an 8051 enhanced with an 8 ch. 8-bit A/D converter, two 5-ch. PCA's, six 8-bit I/O ports, and some other minor things. All-in-all, I thought that the Automotive Handbook was a big letdown from what I was expecting. Just thought you'd like to know. Msg#: 6737 *GENERAL* 08/25/88 18:34:06 From: JEFF JENSEN To: DAN KARMANN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 6716 (AUTOMOTIVE HANDBOOK) Thanks for the insight. The Controller Area Network stuff sounds interesting, as does the 80C51GB. I like the idea of distributing intelligence throughout a system and then linking it all together via a network (I work in a mainframe-oriented company and this is heresy here). I will not go out of my way for the Automotive book unless I need it, but if I can pick it up along the way with a minimum of effort, I will. - - Jeff Msg#: 6719 *GENERAL* 08/25/88 15:13:09 From: RICHARD ANDREWS To: ALL Subj: FILE EXCHANGE . I recently got ahold of some handy spreadsheet templates however they are meant to be used with Visi-Calc on an Apple II. I would like to be able to use them with Lotus 123 on a PC. Does anybody have any way of tranferring these files to MS-DOS format? Also would the templates be useable with Lotus? At one time, when Visi-Calc was popular Software Arts made a big deal out of DIF, their data interchange format; as I recall Lotus is supposed to be able to use this format. Any ideas? Msg#: 6731 *GENERAL* 08/25/88 18:13:11 From: DAN KARMANN To: ALL Subj: TASM ASM TABLES Does anyone here know how to get TASM, the Table-based Assembler I got from this board, to accept an instuction set that has more than 3 byte per instruction? I have made and instruction set table for TASM for the TMS7000 series single chip micro and am having problems with the 8 instructions in the instruction set that take 4 bytes for the complete instruction. It seems that TASM only works correctly on 1 to 3 byte instructions. If anyone knows how to make TASM to correctly accept more than 3 bytes per instruction, I'd appreciate hearing from them. Thanks! Msg#: 6745 *GENERAL* 08/25/88 20:28:00 From: TERRY ROSE To: JONATHAN STOTT (Rcvd) Subj: AMIGA Hey! I saw one of my more favored words in your message, AMIGA. I've had my Amiga 1000 for about two years now. How long have you had yours? I won't even ask if you like it...........:-) TERRY Msg#: 6908 *GENERAL* 08/29/88 22:20:07 From: JONATHAN STOTT To: TERRY ROSE (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 6745 (AMIGA) I've had my Amiga 500 since mid January of this year. Before then I used my parents system (also a 500, now about one year old). You're right, you don't have to ask if I love my system! CUL8R- -Jonathan Msg#: 7106 *GENERAL* 09/02/88 22:15:53 From: TERRY ROSE To: JONATHAN STOTT (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 6908 (AMIGA) I also use a compaq portable III at work. While I love the speed of the compaq, the Amiga has got it beat on ease of use for both hardware configuration and user friendliness. I sure do wish I could blend the two together. Terry :-) Msg#: 6816 *GENERAL* 08/27/88 07:41:09 From: LUC DE MEYER To: KEN DAVIDSON (Rcvd) Subj: COMMS USING CONCORD V22 Thanks Ken, I assumed that it would only work on 2400 bps in v22 mode. That is what i tried also several times now to log on with but to no avail. I think for some reason the modem does not recognise the carrier as being v22 mode carrier or else the signal is simply too weak after the transatlantic voyage. Thanks for looking into that for me. I downloaded the 8051 assembler (pseudocode) from the BBS given in Steve's article. Although it took 37 minutes (on 300 bps) it seems it was worth the wait. Thanks again. Luc De Meyer Msg#: 6823 *GENERAL* 08/27/88 17:03:07 From: MATTHEW LEVINE To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: NEW CONCEPTS SUBMISSION STEVE , I JUST RECIEVED YOUR REPLY IN THE MAIL TODAY. THANKS . I'LL BE LOOKING FORWARD TO HEARING MORE ON THIS LATER . . THANKS AGAIN , ->->-> MATT <-<-<- Msg#: 6825 *GENERAL* 08/27/88 19:17:37 From: GREG BELL To: ALL Subj: PC BOARD CAD PROGS Which of the few PC board CAD programs out there are the best??? And have any of you guys played with either of the two PD ones that are up here?? Which is better? GBell Msg#: 7062 *GENERAL* 09/02/88 01:45:21 From: ERIC POOLE To: GREG BELL (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 6825 (PC BOARD CAD PROGS) Greg, . I have both of the PCB programs posted here, and as near as I can tell they are exactly the same program under different names. Might be a couple of very minor version-type differences; I haven't gotten into them that deeply yet, but they look identical. . As to commercial packages, I use TangoPCB from Accel Technologies in CA someplace; relatively inexpensive ($495), very easy to use, kind of slow, built-in HP-GL, DM-PL, and photoplotter, does up to 6 layers. For another $495 you can get their autorouter, and it's the best low- end autorouter I've seen yet. Last board of any complexity I did was 63 equivalent IC's and a density of about 0.7 sq. in. per EIC, and the autorouter completed it to 94%. . . . . . . ep Msg#: 7336 *GENERAL* 09/10/88 02:10:20 From: GREG BELL To: ERIC POOLE (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 7062 (PC BOARD CAD PROGS) Excellent.... thanks for the reply. I'm glad somebody was able to tell me about those two programs before I spent the time to d/l them. The first took $7 I think.... drag drag. What line of work are you in? Obviously electronics related, but what do you do specifically? .......Greg Bell Msg#: 7539 *GENERAL* 09/17/88 18:01:31 From: ERIC POOLE To: GREG BELL (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 7336 (PC BOARD CAD PROGS) Hi, Greg. . I'm a self-employed technical consultant in circuit, systems, and software design, and I also run a CAD PCB design service company. Most of my work involves embedded processors in machine control systems of one type or another. Mostly I program in C and assembly language, and I'm currently teaching myself Ada with the help of the RR Software Janus/ADA compiler and tutorial. I also do management consulting, often by default or in a self-defensive attempt at retaining my sanity (but we won't get into that right now ). . I'm also sysop of a free-access engineering, programming, and CAD BBS. Its main purpose is in support of my clients and customers, but since it isn't wildly busy at that task I offer its services to the public for free. The main areas of interest are engineering, CAD, and programming languages (mostly C and Ada). If you want to look it over, it's the Leo Technology BBS at (603) 432-2517, 300-1200-2400, 8-N-1. . . . . . . ep Msg#: 6827 *GENERAL* 08/27/88 20:07:50 From: PINKNEY DAVIS To: ALL Subj: BEGINNER INFO. I am new to electronics design and am looking for some background information to help me get started. As a recent graduate in computer science, I have experience in "C", Assembler, and other high level languages. In addition I have been exposed to digital circuit design, graphics, and microprocessors. Any recommendations on projects and text books are appreciated. In addition, what is a good brand of soldering iron and multimeter for me to use and who is the most economical source. Msg#: 6897 *GENERAL* 08/29/88 15:22:45 From: BOB MAHONEY To: PINKNEY DAVIS (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 6827 (BEGINNER INFO.) Probably the best place to look for learning hardware design/construction is Heathkit educational courses. Just check their catalog. As far as soldering irons and meters, try Radio Shack. Their equipment will be adequate for experimenter or hobbiest work. Msg#: 6829 *GENERAL* 08/27/88 22:10:11 From: VIC FRAENCKEL To: DAVE EVERS (Rcvd) Subj: PRINTING PCB LAYOUTS ON DESKJET dave, you were kind enough to reply to my message concerning the printing of pcb layouts on a deskjet and suggested that you would provide me with a program and some files to try out when I aquires my deskjet. well, i did so will you??? The user's manual for the dj says that it will print in the raster mode 300dpi so maybe there's some hope. any assistance on this matter is/will be appreciated. what software are you using to lay out your pcbs??. anyway - thanks for your help vic fraenckel Msg#: 6889 *GENERAL* 08/29/88 12:00:17 From: DAVE EVERS To: VIC FRAENCKEL (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 6829 (PRINTING PCB LAYOUTS ON DESKJET) Vic - Glad to hear you now have a Deskjet - I would be pleased to send you a copy of my beta software along with some sample files. Why don't you drop me a note here with your mailing address and I'll pop a disk over to you with the program (LASRPLOT) and a few test files. I am quite anxious to hear if the Deskjet performs with this software as I may jump out and buy one myself. Look forward to hearing from you soon. Msg#: 6921 *GENERAL* 08/30/88 07:25:30 From: VIC FRAENCKEL To: DAVE EVERS (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 6889 (PRINTING PCB LAYOUTS ON DESKJET) dave, thanks for your reply - my address is: 522 Sacandaga Road Scotia, New York 12302 i look forward to hearing from you and trying your software. again, thanks vic fraenckel Msg#: 6950 *GENERAL* 08/30/88 13:18:06 From: DAVE EVERS To: VIC FRAENCKEL (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 6921 (PRINTING PCB LAYOUTS ON DESKJET) OK - look for a package in a few days with the software. I appreciate your help in trying this out. Msg#: 6831 *GENERAL* 08/27/88 22:45:31 From: VIC FRAENCKEL To: ALL Subj: MAX232 IC I have seen reference to the MAX232 ic which i assume is a ttl/rs232 level converter. i see that steve uses it in his HAL hardware and i have seen it used in other places. is there anyone out there that can give me some technical data on this chip and where i might acquire a couple of them. any info will be appreciated. vic fraenckel Msg#: 6833 *GENERAL* 08/27/88 23:03:50 From: DALE NASSAR To: VIC FRAENCKEL (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 6831 (MAX232 IC) Get in touch with: MAXIM Integrated Products, Inc. 510 N. Pastoria Ave Sunnyvale, CA. 94086 (408) 737-7600 They will supply you literature and free samples. Sample request cards can be found in the MAXIM Product Selector Guide and Price List. --Dale Msg#: 6872 *GENERAL* 08/29/88 09:51:39 From: STEVE CIARCIA To: VIC FRAENCKEL (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 6831 (MAX232 IC) Issue #5 of CC INK contains a new column on circuit tips called "From the Bench". This first colum covers RS-232 level shifters including the MAX232. --Steve Msg#: 6834 *GENERAL* 08/27/88 23:32:14 From: MITCHELL SPENCE To: ALL Subj: IMAGE FILMING . Does anyone have any experience with joining a film recorder to a 16mm movie camera, where the camera advances the film one frame at a time under computer control? Thanks, Mitch Msg#: 6835 *GENERAL* 08/27/88 23:55:36 From: KOUROSH DERAKHSHANI To: ED NISLEY (Rcvd) Subj: MANDELBROT ENGINE TO :Ed Nisley The idea of a multi-processor number cruncher for Mandelbrot calculations has interested me for some time now, and reading the Circuit Cellar BBS message excerpts published in the current INK issue added some more sparkle to it. I would like to point out some observations, and objections to your message (#3280). First, I believe that there is no problem benchmarking ANY Mandelbrot generator. You really do have an "apples-to-apples comparison" : since the main object of a Mandelbrot generator is time consuming mathematical iterations, I would judge a piece of software by how fast runs. Therefore I would use a program's "iterations per second" throughput to compare it with others. Second point is regarding the MFG's performance figures you mentioned in same message. With the given iteration times of 5 to 7 mS per processor, I am using an average of 6 mS, and deducting the following : # of iteration # of processors time (uS) iterations / Sec -------------------------------------------- 1 6000 1667 8 750 1333 16 375 2667 64 93.8 10677 At first, these numbers are impressive; they sure blow away the results I get myself using C and compiled BASIC ! But comparing these results with ones taken from an assembly language program written by a colleague of mine, it seems that the MFG is not so impressive after all. Running on a 5.65MHz PC with a V20/8087 chip set, his program churns out a cool 5123 iterations per second! (10MHz PC = 9066 per second). Further- more, sweeping a 640x350 16 color EGA screen is less that 10 seconds, compared to your 1.8 minute communication/display overhead. Personally, if I was to spend any funds on a such machine, I would much rather spend more, and try my own hand at a RISC based processor/floating point accelerator chip set. True, they are EXPENSIVE, but they sure are FAST. Besides, its more fun! Kourosh Derakhshani 25-AUG-1988 PS. I am writing this message on my wordprocessor, and hope I can do an ASCII download instead of typing on-line. Msg#: 6991 *GENERAL* 08/31/88 10:32:14 From: ED NISLEY To: KOUROSH DERAKHSHANI (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 6835 (MANDELBROT ENGINE) Looks like you got the ASCII upload figured out just fine, which is better than I did on my first attempt... Your conclusion about the Mandelbrot Engine is also correct, but there may be a little more going on in there than you give it credit for. The comparison still isn't quite apples to apples... The point of BYTE articles (which you will get in the next few months if you're still a subscriber) was that, regardless of the power of a single processor and no matter how clever your coding, there's still not enough oomph to solve certain classes of problems. So we devoted an article to exploring how to goose single processor performance, another to the benefits of multiple processors, and the third to a working example of how a multiprocessor can beat the pants off a single processor. In true Circuit Cellar fashion, that example must be functional, affordable, comprehensible, and use readily available parts... A RISC machine and floating point accelerator certainly don't meet all of those criteria! Communication between the host processor and the elements seems to be a weak link, but for images of any reasonable iteration count it's not such a big deal. There's a lot of contention during images that require only a few iterations per point, but when you're viewing a region requiring a few hundred iterations for most of the pels the communications time is irrelevant compared to the computataion time. Also, unless your friend has been real careful about numeric accuracy, the MFE is doing higher-precision math. The fixed point calculations do 60 fractional bits and the conversions between the C "double" vars and the fixed point values are done to 60 bit precision. The '87 uses "temp real" format internally, which will give you about the same precision, but if you load or store values from the '86 you MUST use temp real format to avoid truncation errors. And, of course, our comparison of hand-tuned assembler on the 8751 with floating point C code on the AT isn't fair at all! Your friend's code is a better comparison, so I'll accept 100 us per iteration as a round number for a 10 MHz machine with a coprocessor. Now, here's a summary of the whole series in one paragraph. Let's suppose that your friend needs to increase the speed of his calculations by, say, 10x. He can move to a 20 MHz '386 and '387 to get 3x, but it's tough to figure out how to get the remaining 3.3x. We add a few lines of 8751 assembler to allow more than 256 processors and roll in a few more racks (and power supplies); all the other code and hardware remain the same. THAT'S what the Mandelbrot Engine is all about! Msg#: 6845 *GENERAL* 08/28/88 12:53:19 From: ERIC HOLMQUIST To: ALL Subj: IBM 3270 EMULATOR BOARDS Does anyone have any info about 3270 emulation for IBM PC's Specificly, I am writing some software that runs afoul of these cards and cant figure out why. I need to know what memory is played about with as well as what ports are used etc. Any info as to where these cards put their grubby electronic paws would be apreciated. Thanks Eric Holmquist Msg#: 6848 *GENERAL* 08/28/88 14:31:56 From: ANTHONY SCIPIONE To: ALL Subj: LOGIC DESIGN SOFTWARE I am a college student majoring in computer science. I am required to take a course in digital logic using TTL circuits applying both synchronous and asynchronous methods. Is there a logic design software package available for the Tandy 1000 (IBM compatible) that would allow me to design and test circuits on the computer screen before I actually implement them? Msg#: 7063 *GENERAL* 09/02/88 01:45:55 From: ERIC POOLE To: ANTHONY SCIPIONE (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 6848 (LOGIC DESIGN SOFTWARE) Anthony, Try SCHEM.ARC and LOGSIM.ARC, both available in the IBM PC library here on the board. Limited in capability but the price is right. . . . . . ep Msg#: 6849 *GENERAL* 08/28/88 16:00:33 From: CHET ORTON To: ALL Subj: HD64180 Help! I would like to work with the HD64180 but can't find a mailorder source of the chip or documentation. Can anyone help? Thanks alot. -Chet Orton. Msg#: 6854 *GENERAL* 08/28/88 23:41:54 From: MARK BALCH To: SYSOP (Rcvd) Subj: PAST MESSAGES Hi. I just got back from a three week trip and have a problem. During the week of around August 4, I wrote a message about TTL loading asking for help. I cannot find it or any responses. You have probably removed it to an archive. I NEED to find it and its responses. Can you please tell me how or IF I can find my letter? Mark. Msg#: 6869 *GENERAL* 08/29/88 09:46:36 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: MARK BALCH Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 6854 (PAST MESSAGES) Go to the main message menu and select ll message areas. Then select ead, followed by elective retrieval. Then select the rom field of every message and type your name as the string to search for. Doing that, I found your original message (5631) plus every other message you've left here. I could have sworn there were responses to your loading message, but I didn't see any. Try reading the messages posted during the few days after your message to see if there were any responses. Msg#: 6859 *GENERAL* 08/29/88 02:55:06 From: ALLAN LONG To: ALL Subj: VIDEO CONTROLLERS Well, I was at this fdic auction on friday and saw some bank type surveillance equipment, diebold, etc.. I saw what seemed to be a device to transmit video over telephone, I used kinda a scanner for multiple transmitters on the sending end and the receiving end had a device hooked up to a panasonic video recorder which was set up for time-lapse recording and date-time generation. What I was wondering was does anyone have any good (read cheap) sources for video cameras and such? Msg#: 6892 *GENERAL* 08/29/88 14:12:12 From: RON WILSON To: ALLAN LONG (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 6859 (VIDEO CONTROLLERS) Try Fordham Electronics. I don't remember the address, but they advertise in many electronics related magazines. Msg#: 6914 *GENERAL* 08/30/88 00:40:00 From: ALLAN LONG To: RON WILSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 6892 (VIDEO CONTROLLERS) Will do. I think I have one of their old catalogs somewhere, rather large as I recall. Thanks I had forgotten about them since I havent gotten a catalog for a while. I wonder what kinda cameras people are using with their imagewise systems? Msg#: 6931 *GENERAL* 08/30/88 08:46:41 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: ALLAN LONG (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 6914 (VIDEO CONTROLLERS) You can contact Fordham Radio at (800) 645-9518, (800) 832-1446 in New York, or (516) 435-8080 from outside the country. We've been using GBC and RCA cameras with pretty good success. These are fairly low-cost black-and-white cameras meant for closed-circuit security. You don't need high cost or color for ImageWise; black and white works best. Msg#: 6970 *GENERAL* 08/31/88 00:31:23 From: ALLAN LONG To: KEN DAVIDSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 6931 (VIDEO CONTROLLERS) Thanks. I will call and get prices from Fordham. Maybe my local RCA dealer can help. Have you ever heard of VICON Industries in Plainview, NY? I seem to have picked up some kinda video controller from them along with an RCA video (CC) controller in an Auction for $20.00 . THanks Msg#: 6876 *GENERAL* 08/29/88 10:27:20 From: BYRON BLAKE To: ALL Subj: DOSEDIT.ARC The kind user who uploaded this program upon my request....forgot documentation. How do I invoke the TSR? Much appreciated. Byron Msg#: 6953 *GENERAL* 08/30/88 15:03:25 From: ROGER WHITE To: ANYONE Subj: DOWNLOAD PROBLEM I AM ROGER D WHITE FROM DAYTONA BEACH FLORIDA HAVING PROBLEMS DOWNLOADING FILES OR THE SYSTEM WILL NOT TAKE MY START SIGNAL. Msg#: 6958 *GENERAL* 08/30/88 16:43:50 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: ROGER WHITE (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 6953 (DOWNLOAD PROBLEM) Could you be little more specific about what you're having trouble doing? Have you carefully read the text file that is displayed when you select ow to download files from any of the file menus? What protocol are you using? What software are you using on your end and what protocols does it support? What file are you trying to download? Msg#: 6960 *GENERAL* 08/30/88 19:09:10 From: MARK LAMPKIN To: EVERYONE Subj: 1802,4,5 CROSS ASSEMBLER This is a general request for help.I am looking for a public domain cross-assembler for the RCA 1802/4/5 family of micros.I've tried to contact Pseudo-Sam for their 's,however,I have not been able to get in touch with them.If anyone has a copy or knows of a source,please leave me a message or call me,(collect ?),....home--313-669-4260/office--313-669-616 0/car---313-670-8398...Any help would be greatly appreciated....Thanks..... Mark.... Msg#: 6972 *GENERAL* 08/31/88 08:01:23 From: BOB PADDOCK To: MARK LAMPKIN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 6960 (1802,4,5 CROSS ASSEMBLER) I have all of the Pseudo-Sam assemblers on my system, give it a call at (814) 437-5647 300/1200/2400 8/N/1 24 hr. What are you doing with the 180x? Msg#: 6975 *GENERAL* 08/31/88 08:22:14 From: MARK LAMPKIN To: BOB PADDOCK (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 6972 (1802,4,5 CROSS ASSEMBLER) Bob,I'm adding another node to my home LAN.I just happen to have 8 or 10 180x processors sitting around.Needless to say it's CMOS and this node is going to sit in my garden.It will do A/D conversions to determine when to water,apply water soluble fertilizer,etc.Being CMOS,it's ideal for battery power with solar cell recharge...No power cords and a hook-up to my system with fiber optics....thanks for the info........Mark Msg#: 7068 *GENERAL* 09/02/88 02:31:49 From: EDDIE WHITE To: MARK LAMPKIN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 6960 (1802,4,5 CROSS ASSEMBLER) The C User Group has an 1802 cross assembler written in C (also on the disk is a 6800 xasm.) Its written by W. Colley, source is included, but the version I have is for CP/M. Don't know if there is a dos version. Contact the: C Users Group Box 97 415 E. Euclid McPherson, KS 67640 316-241-1065 Msg#: 7071 *GENERAL* 09/02/88 06:41:01 From: MARK LAMPKIN To: EDDIE WHITE (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 7068 (1802,4,5 CROSS ASSEMBLER) Ed,thanks for the info..I got a copy of the Psuedo Sam assembler.I know this is not for the "state of the art" micro,however,when you have the stuff sitting around you might as well use it,besides,I think in a lot of cases the CDP1802 is a pretty powerful micro.Not much attention was ever paid to it,I think because it was from RCA,not Intel.Anyhow....thanks.....m ark Msg#: 7091 *GENERAL* 09/02/88 12:35:35 From: BOB PADDOCK To: MARK LAMPKIN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 7071 (1802,4,5 CROSS ASSEMBLER) The milatary payed alot of attention to the 1802 because it was from RCA. Sence the 1802 was the first true CMOS CPU and could be made with Silcon-On-Siaphier (SOS) tecknolage, for radiation harding you will probably be able to get 1802, for at least the next 25 years. A lot of satalites use RAD harddend 1802's........ Msg#: 7123 *GENERAL* 09/03/88 10:38:32 From: MARK LAMPKIN To: BOB PADDOCK (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 7091 (1802,4,5 CROSS ASSEMBLER) Bob,thanks for the assembler.As far as the military and the 1802,we did a job for the Army and there was an inquiry as to the possibility of changing the 80C32 in the equipment to the 1802.As far as we are concerned,that would mean a total redesign of h'ware and s'ware.Iused to design quite a bit of equipment around the 1802,when I was with a different company.I cut my teeth on a COSMAC ELF from "Quest Electronis" and really wanted to build a new data gathering system for the outdoor environment.After little soul-searching I decided to use the "old" 1802.For a remote analog aquisition system,the 1802 has 16 internal 16-bit registers.....With care,no RAM required in the system,only CMOS Eprom....Si mple system.......Mark.... Msg#: 7224 *GENERAL* 09/07/88 01:49:46 From: KEN HOWELL To: MARK LAMPKIN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 6975 (1802,4,5 CROSS ASSEMBLER) Wow! You're doing what I've been *planning* for several years! I will definitely look forward to your Ink articles! Please tell me in the interim, however, what valves/pressure sensors/ etc. you are using. --Ken. Msg#: 7257 *GENERAL* 09/07/88 19:38:25 From: MARK LAMPKIN To: KEN HOWELL (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 7224 (1802,4,5 CROSS ASSEMBLER) Ken,,,This,if nothing else,will be interesting for me...We are now in the process of closing on a new,(built in 1928),house with steam heat.So,if all goes well,I will be doing everything in this house from scratch,except the existing hardware that is in use in my present house...Actually it will be fun applying it to steam,as gas/forced air was a piece of cake.The hard part will be trying to find the required electo-mechanical valves at a resonable,(cheap),cost.The actual basics of H.V.A.C. type controls is quite simple..It's the very slow response of the system to a PID type algorythm that adds the challenge....As far as the other controls,most of them can be made or aquired at flea markets or surplus,(i.e.,junk), stores.....Just takes imagination....Mark Msg#: 7358 *GENERAL* 09/11/88 23:30:53 From: KEN HOWELL To: MARK LAMPKIN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 7257 (1802,4,5 CROSS ASSEMBLER) Do you use commercial sprinkler valves? --Ken Msg#: 7365 *GENERAL* 09/12/88 08:07:17 From: MARK LAMPKIN To: KEN HOWELL (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 7358 (1802,4,5 CROSS ASSEMBLER) Ken....The valves are from "Rainbird".The local hardware store has them for about $20 a pop...The other way to do it,and successfully I might add,is to find a local washing machine parts store.They have vales for replacement that cost about $14 or $15 each.The nice part is they are dual valves....Hot and Cold for a washer,so now you get a valve in a "Y' configuration...Use it as a one line into two splitter and run two small orfice sprinkler heads.....The valves are 110vac control solenoids,so use a solid stae relay or build an AC switch with a triac and an opto-coupler like the MOC3012 from Motorola......Mark Msg#: 7491 *GENERAL* 09/16/88 02:08:49 From: EDDIE WHITE To: MARK LAMPKIN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 7365 (1802,4,5 CROSS ASSEMBLER) If you try to operate those 110vac valves on 18-28vdc I think you will find they will operate just fine. A whole bunch safer (you will not need GFI's) and much easier to work with. The only problems I've run into is some relays tend to be a little sluggish. When switching large loads they arc and spark and make a mess after awhile. Msg#: 7498 *GENERAL* 09/16/88 08:56:57 From: KEN HOWELL To: EDDIE WHITE (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 7491 (1802,4,5 CROSS ASSEMBLER) Great. I gan get the rainbirds locally for about $10. I like them because they're one of the few valves that have variable flow. Thanks for the information. I look forward to your article. --Ken. Reply has been deleted Msg#: 6961 *GENERAL* 08/30/88 20:54:57 From: JAMES S HARRISON To: ALL Subj: HARD DRIVE FAILURE Can anyone tell me what error code "1701" on an IBM XT is specifically referring to. I've seen four machines at work giving this message over the last few weeks. All had their hard drives replaced and I have couple of the ones that failed. Any info will be appreciated. Thanks Msg#: 6978 *GENERAL* 08/31/88 08:55:09 From: JEFF BACHIOCHI To: JAMES S HARRISON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 6961 (HARD DRIVE FAILURE) . James, . My information lists this error as a HARD DISK POST ERROR. POST stands for Power-On Self Test. Since other 17xx messages are more specific (1702-adapter 1703-drive) this doesn't help much about where you should start looking. Sorry I can't help more! . jeff Msg#: 7017 *GENERAL* 08/31/88 20:15:16 From: JAMES S HARRISON To: JEFF BACHIOCHI (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 6978 (HARD DRIVE FAILURE) Thanks anyway, Jeff. The drives have all failed in the same manner. They never show any sign of a problem, then fail to respond at power-up. James Msg#: 6967 *GENERAL* 08/31/88 00:06:40 From: THOMAS BARNETT To: JEFF JENSEN (Rcvd) Subj: 8052 PROJECT I've done a little more fooling around with this 8052, and when I can get it to work it automatically selects the proper baud rate that the terminal is using upon reset. Also I think the XBY( ) operator is used to write and read RAM. It seems to work anyway. I forgot to leave you my phone when I logged on yesterday. 702-641-8606. I beleive there is two hours difference between our respective time zones. The best time would be after 8pm PDT, otherwise I've a house full of kids tugging at me. -Thomas- Msg#: 6986 *GENERAL* 08/31/88 09:41:04 From: JEFF JENSEN To: THOMAS BARNETT (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 6967 (8052 PROJECT) OK, I would like to chat. By the way, the Embedded Controller Handbook says next to nothing about the 8052AH BASIC device. It does cover the other family parts well enough to get started. The earlier Microcontroller Handbook at least gives the list of commands and some pin definitions. I expect the BASIC-52 manual to fill in the blanks. - - Jeff Msg#: 7019 *GENERAL* 08/31/88 21:03:57 From: THOMAS BARNETT To: JEFF JENSEN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 6986 (8052 PROJECT) Steve Ciarcia gave me the answer to my intermittent. Press the space bar. Well I was close, I kept pressing the return. I could not find the 11059200 xtal, but I did have a 22118400 which is 2X so I just used 1/2 of a 74LS74 and divided it. Pin 18 takes the external clock. I am going to use the printer port output to send data to my voice setup. I could take a great interest in this chip when I get more information. -Thomas- Msg#: 7048 *GENERAL* 09/01/88 18:34:18 From: JEFF JENSEN To: THOMAS BARNETT (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 7019 (8052 PROJECT) Thomas, I called Intel's Microcontroller BBS and looked at what they had. It fell mostly into two areas, sample code for functions and foils and presentation notes on products. It didn't seem to have the nitty gritty technical details I was looking for, but was quite intersting. - I enjoyed talking with you last night. It is good to have a two way conversation on occasion. I spent another hour on the project and am into troubleshooting why it doesn't work. Another couple of hours may see it up and running (Murphy is snickering in the corner). - - Jeff Msg#: 6968 *GENERAL* 08/31/88 00:22:32 From: ANDREAS DESSOFF To: ALL Subj: OSCILLOSCOPE WANTED I am trying to buy either a used or new and rockbottom-priced 2-channel analog scope with delayed sweep and a frequency response of 30-40 Mhz. If you have one for sale, or know a source, leave me a message here or call me at (203)374-3379. If you get my machine, leave your number. Thanks. Msg#: 6969 *GENERAL* 08/31/88 00:29:14 From: ANDREAS DESSOFF To: PC-USERS Subj: COMPONENTS FOR SALE I have some PC/XT/AT components/boards for sale. Most are brand new, some have been used for about a week. Switchable keyboard - $60. TEAC 5 1/2 DSDD drive 55BV - $75. AT/XT floppy disk controller card - $60. Samsung amber mono monitor - $80. Monographics video card (Herc. compat.) with printer port - $55. I will entertain lower offers as long as they are not ridiculous. Call me or my machine at (203)374-3379 or leave message here! . . . .. . . . .Andy. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Msg#: 7030 *GENERAL* 09/01/88 08:57:03 From: ERIC SCHUYLER To: KELLY HUGHES Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 6639 (PHONE ANSWERER FOR MODEM) Kelly, If it isn't too much trouble, could you send me a copy of your phone answerer circuit? If you want a SASE, please let me know. My address is: Eric B. Schuyler 81 Yorktown Road Snyder, NY 14226 Thanks!! Msg#: 8468 *GENERAL* 10/12/88 22:34:50 From: KEN HOWELL To: KELLY HUGHES Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 6639 (PHONE ANSWERER FOR MODEM) Kelly -- I'd like the circuit, too. P.O. Box 1202 Boise, ID 83701. I'll reimburse you for copying and postage, etc. Thanks. --Ken. Msg#: 8495 *GENERAL* 10/13/88 09:52:35 From: ERIC SCHUYLER To: KELLY HUGHES Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 6639 (PHONE ANSWERER FOR MODEM) Kelly, I may have already sent you a previous message, but I'm not sure. Anyway, I'm also interested in your phone answerer circuit. Please send a copy to: Eric Schuyler 81 Yorktown Road Snyder, NY 14226 I will, of course, reimburse you for any reasonable expenses. Thanks! Eric Msg#: 8505 *GENERAL* 10/13/88 11:25:57 From: RON WILSON To: KELLY HUGHES Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 6639 (PHONE ANSWERER FOR MODEM) I would also like a copy (please). Ron Wilson, 27600 Franklin Rd #408, Southfield, MI 48034 - Thanks in advance. Msg#: 7039 *GENERAL* 09/01/88 13:28:42 From: STEVE CIARCIA To: RICHARD KOVAL Subj: NOISE CANCELLATION Any chance of giving us a review or something about the price? --Steve Msg#: 7042 *GENERAL* 09/01/88 13:40:16 From: STEVE CIARCIA To: THOMAS BARNETT (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 7018 (8052 PROJECTS) Everybody will sell you the chip but nobody has the manual :-) The BASIC-52 manual is very hard to get but micromint stocks them and ships one with every BCC52. The BASIC-52 manual (make sure you order a BASIC-52 manual and NOT a BCC52 manual!) is $15 plus P&H from Micromint. --Steve Msg#: 7046 *GENERAL* 09/01/88 16:13:10 From: SAMMY KATZ To: KEN DAVIDSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 6932 (8052 PROJECTS) While I was in grad school I worked on an 8052 project. I called Intel in Santa Clara and they were more than happy to send me three Basic-52 manuals, for me and my lab partners, gratis. It's worth a shot. The number is (408)987-8080. Good luck. Msg#: 7054 *GENERAL* 09/01/88 21:14:55 From: THOMAS BARNETT To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 7042 (8052 PROJECTS) Thanks, I'll send for it. -Thomas- Msg#: 7044 *GENERAL* 09/01/88 16:00:31 From: SAMMY KATZ To: BOB PADDOCK (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 6927 (MICROPROCCESSOR) The reason I have this stange criteria is that the system that I have to interface the processor to already exists. Given my druthers I would most certainly make a decision based on performance and assorted other typical criteria. It is a very specialized design, design for a very specific application. My goal is to see whether I can "turbo-charge" the design without causing a snowball effect with regard to the system complexity and the ease of implementing the changes. Any more input on 8-bit micro-p's with multiplexed data and address busses is welcome and would be highly appreciated. Msg#: 7045 *GENERAL* 09/01/88 16:02:57 From: BOB PADDOCK To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 6542 (AC PWER LINE MODEM) Check out: "Pseudonoise Signalling for Power Line Carrier Applications" by Peter K. Van Der Gracth and Rober W. Donaldson, in IEEE Transactions on Power Delivery, Vol PWRD-1, No 1, Jan 1986. "Abstract - Direct sequence pseudonoise (PN) modulation for power line communications is examined, to overcome narroband impairments and to provide other operational advantages. Design issues considered include code sysnchronization means, processing gain optimization, PN code selection, modem impeadance level, operating frequency band, and data rates and protocols for various applications. Measurements using a protobype modem on distribuition lines show bit-error rates below 10^-4 at data rates up to 9600 bits/s." See also "Intrabuilding Data Transmission Using Power-Line Wiring" by Robert A. Piety, Hewlett-Packard Journal May 1987. "An investigation of the transfer and noise characteristics of intrabuildin g power lines had indicated the feasibility of their use for local data communications at data rates greater than 100 kbits/s. Within ceartain constraints, data rates of 1 Mbits/s or greater are possible. This paper discusses typical power-line characteristics in the 1-to-20-MHz readion and one implementation of a 100 Kbits/s spread spectrum data link operating in the 3.5 to 10.5 MHz range." To greatly over simplifi the problem, the vacuum cleaner generates noise at one frequency (wide band), the refridge at an other freq, the light dimmer at yet an other, ect... So if you hopp around enough with your data you are going to satisticly miss the noise (most of the time). Msg#: 7112 *GENERAL* 09/03/88 00:48:03 From: JEFF HENSHAW To: RON WILSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 6943 (AC PWER LINE MODEM) Yes, I'm sure I'd need to build a modem. I doubt there's a transmitter on the market that would take TTL/digital input. I can probably ignore the fact that it "wants" a 6 MHZ wide video signal, since the bandpass should be 0 - 6 MHZ. It ought to accept 2 or 3 KHZ carrier quite nicely. What kind of range do you get from these transmitters?? Jeff. Msg#: 7113 *GENERAL* 09/03/88 00:56:02 From: JEFF HENSHAW To: ALEXANDER SCHNEIDER (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 6954 (AC PWER LINE MODEM) Yes, it does. I'll dig up their phone # next week & give 'em a call. These sound pretty close to ideal for the project. By the time I build a modem for these, we're looking at about $300 per station - pretty cheap in my view. We'll see what my client thinks - I suspect he wants them for free (OK, less than 50 bucks) which just ain't gonna happen! Thanks for the help, guys. I didn't really expect anyone to reply at all, let alone supply all the help you have. I'll look into PC Electronics and write up a presentation for my client and let you know what happens. In the meantime, let's see if there's anybody *I* can help out on here. Jeff Msg#: 7189 *GENERAL* 09/06/88 10:37:05 From: RON WILSON To: BOB PADDOCK (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 6971 (AC PWER LINE MODEM) As I recall the upper end of the UHF TV Band is some where around 400 - 450 MHz (or is it the lower end? - I KNOW ther is at least ONE UHF TV channel in that area) Msg#: 7190 *GENERAL* 09/06/88 10:47:19 From: RON WILSON To: JEFF HENSHAW (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 7112 (AC PWER LINE MODEM) About 100 feet or so - should be better with a low band width signal. . I didn't mean to imply that one could connect TTL straight to the video input - a level converter could be used - BUT, the square waves of the digital data would probably create very messy modulation. (real video is INTENTIONALLY "smeared" a little - this technique does NOT lend well to digit data). Msg#: 7194 *GENERAL* 09/06/88 12:02:58 From: BOB PADDOCK To: RON WILSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 7189 (AC PWER LINE MODEM) I'll have to get a spectrum chart and look, but I know for sure the Ham band is 430->449.999 MHz. Msg#: 7311 *GENERAL* 09/09/88 03:48:32 From: JEFF HENSHAW To: RON WILSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 7190 (AC PWER LINE MODEM) I didn't think going with a straight TTL input would work, that's why a modem would be needed. It just occured to me that there is probably no need for me to build a modem, a commercial job would probably work just fine. Hmmm..I would probably have to pick the signal off the modem just before the DAA (phone line interface). What the heck does the DAA do to the signal anyway? I know why it's there, but what does it do & how? Back to the books, I guess... Thanks, Ron! Jeff Msg#: 7534 *GENERAL* 09/17/88 17:00:42 From: ALEXANDER SCHNEIDER To: BOB PADDOCK (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 6971 (AC PWER LINE MODEM) Evidently video is allowed there, because this company sells it! It does require a Technician class license to purchase, but I don't think the actualy operator needs a license. Alex Msg#: 7536 *GENERAL* 09/17/88 17:02:38 From: ALEXANDER SCHNEIDER To: JEFF HENSHAW (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 7113 (AC PWER LINE MODEM) You're welcome, do let us know how it turns out. Alex Msg#: 7576 *GENERAL* 09/19/88 08:00:57 From: BOB PADDOCK To: ALEXANDER SCHNEIDER (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 7534 (AC PWER LINE MODEM) The operation of ANY transmitter regardless of the mode of transmission (Video, Audio, Digital ect) requires that the operator have at least a Technician class license. Also the retransmission of other services (ie. Commertial TV) is strictly prohibited even if you do have a license. There have been many companys that have sold things under the guise of Amature Radio such as RADAR jammers sold as 10.5 GHz transcivers, these video transmitters fall in the same cattagory, soon or latter the FCC will close them down. I have never seen a video transmitter that has been type accecpted by the FCC (a requirment of all most all transmitters, the two acceptions are Amature Radio Transmitters build by a Ham, but not for sale as a commertial product, and transmitters that are vary low power [less than so many Micro Volts per Meter (Don't rember the numbers) such as FM wireless mics.]. Msg#: 7615 *GENERAL* 09/19/88 14:09:10 From: RON WILSON To: JEFF HENSHAW (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 7311 (AC PWER LINE MODEM) In the case of a modem, the DAA is basically an isolator and and current/voltage limiter. The basic component is an audio range matching/isolation transformer. There's not much to it, but the FCC cerification procedure is prohibitively expensive - thus, the DAA units themselved are priced high. Msg#: 7816 *GENERAL* 09/24/88 11:52:37 From: ALEXANDER SCHNEIDER To: BOB PADDOCK (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 7576 (AC PWER LINE MODEM) This is a legitimate company which sells transmitters, downconverters, and antennas, which is dedicated to Amateur TV. Alex Msg#: 7830 *GENERAL* 09/25/88 14:31:33 From: JEFF HENSHAW To: ALEXANDER SCHNEIDER (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 7536 (AC PWER LINE MODEM) Well, it turned out much as I expected. My client multiplied a couple hundred bucks times 30-odd testers and decided he couldn't spend that much money. Why do people expect reasonably sophisticated functions to be added into an existing system for free? Sigh.... Msg#: 7831 *GENERAL* 09/25/88 14:34:44 From: JEFF HENSHAW To: RON WILSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 7615 (AC PWER LINE MODEM) I THOUGHT it was basically a transformer, but I couldn't figure out why they were expensive. Naturally, whenever Uncle Sugar is involved "for my own good" the price goes up without anything useful being added....Thanks, Ron. Jeff Msg#: 7862 *GENERAL* 09/26/88 11:39:51 From: RON WILSON To: ALEXANDER SCHNEIDER (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 7816 (AC PWER LINE MODEM) Who. I've been working on my Tech License and will soon be looking into more interesting things. Msg#: 7981 *GENERAL* 10/03/88 19:20:00 From: ALEXANDER SCHNEIDER To: RON WILSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 7862 (AC PWER LINE MODEM) I'm sorry but this BBS program doesn't seem to be able to handle showing me the message which this is a reply to, is this the 400 MHz video transmitters? Alex Msg#: 8027 *GENERAL* 10/04/88 13:07:17 From: RON WILSON To: ALEXANDER SCHNEIDER (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 7981 (AC PWER LINE MODEM) That was one of the topics of discussion on this thread. Msg#: 7048 *GENERAL* 09/01/88 18:34:18 From: JEFF JENSEN To: THOMAS BARNETT (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 7019 (8052 PROJECT) Thomas, I called Intel's Microcontroller BBS and looked at what they had. It fell mostly into two areas, sample code for functions and foils and presentation notes on products. It didn't seem to have the nitty gritty technical details I was looking for, but was quite intersting. - I enjoyed talking with you last night. It is good to have a two way conversation on occasion. I spent another hour on the project and am into troubleshooting why it doesn't work. Another couple of hours may see it up and running (Murphy is snickering in the corner). - - Jeff Msg#: 7055 *GENERAL* 09/01/88 21:21:37 From: THOMAS BARNETT To: JEFF JENSEN (Rcvd) Subj: 8952 PROJECTS I finished my interface with my speech processor late last night and it didn't work either, so I guess we are batting 1000%. -Thomas- Msg#: 7098 *GENERAL* 09/02/88 17:19:49 From: JEFF JENSEN To: THOMAS BARNETT (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 7055 (8952 PROJECTS) Success! Last night was an educational experience in capacitors, timings and 8052 architecture. Problem one: 1- 1 1/2 volts ripple/noise on Vcc is a bad thing. Problem two: a device with programmable I/O ports that double for things like serial console I/O really DO need to be reset at power up. Otherwise, those I/O ports may (won't) come up in the proper mode. Problem three: the 8052 really does need a minimum of 2K RAM at data address 0000 before it can start BASIC (this one had me stumped most of the night). Anyway, now I'm trying to decide if inputs or outputs are the next task. I am leaning toward getting the alphanumeric displays working. - That little bugger is pretty quick. I set up a simple X=X+1 routine just to see what would happen. It ran about 30K iterations in less than a minute. Have you tried serial console I/O at 9600? I'm using a PC with Mirror communications software, and at 9600 I had trouble with double character entry and a little trouble with character distortions. - I will be sending a package of stuff from the Microcontroller handbook including an application note on using it for automotive lamp control. Good stuff, Maynard. - - Jeff Msg#: 7105 *GENERAL* 09/02/88 21:10:22 From: THOMAS BARNETT To: JEFF JENSEN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 7098 (8952 PROJECTS) Jeff I had no problem at 9600 Baud. I tried all from 300 to 9600 and everyone worked smoothe, smoothe, smoothe. I should have warned you about the ram from the biginning, my data sheet says it only needs 1K, but who uses 1K these days. As I told you I am using an antique H9 terminal, but it "takes a lickin' and keeps on tickin'". I've had no interface problems with it once I learned the trick with the space character. Have a good holiday. -Thomas- Msg#: 7196 *GENERAL* 09/06/88 12:19:35 From: JEFF JENSEN To: THOMAS BARNETT (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 7105 (8952 PROJECTS) I'm not sure where my problem lies with the double characters, but that is a problem that I'm not too worried about. I've been playing with designs in my head for the user display. I worked out the connections for the alphanumeric LED display also. Now the concern is whether to use it (and employ electronics or software to make it work) or use something else. Digikey advertises LCD displays that appear to be very easy to interface (as an I/O address) with several combinations of characters and lines. Price on them is the $20-$40 range. - This weekend was not very productive for the project. I spent most of the weekend cleaning and organizing my library (I filled an entire library unit with data books). The rest of this week doesn't look much better. I will be travelling through next Monday, so I won't b be on the board much. See you when I get back. - - Jeff Reply has been deleted Msg#: 7062 *GENERAL* 09/02/88 01:45:21 From: ERIC POOLE To: GREG BELL (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 6825 (PC BOARD CAD PROGS) Greg, . I have both of the PCB programs posted here, and as near as I can tell they are exactly the same program under different names. Might be a couple of very minor version-type differences; I haven't gotten into them that deeply yet, but they look identical. . As to commercial packages, I use TangoPCB from Accel Technologies in CA someplace; relatively inexpensive ($495), very easy to use, kind of slow, built-in HP-GL, DM-PL, and photoplotter, does up to 6 layers. For another $495 you can get their autorouter, and it's the best low- end autorouter I've seen yet. Last board of any complexity I did was 63 equivalent IC's and a density of about 0.7 sq. in. per EIC, and the autorouter completed it to 94%. . . . . . . ep Msg#: 7336 *GENERAL* 09/10/88 02:10:20 From: GREG BELL To: ERIC POOLE (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 7062 (PC BOARD CAD PROGS) Excellent.... thanks for the reply. I'm glad somebody was able to tell me about those two programs before I spent the time to d/l them. The first took $7 I think.... drag drag. What line of work are you in? Obviously electronics related, but what do you do specifically? .......Greg Bell Msg#: 7539 *GENERAL* 09/17/88 18:01:31 From: ERIC POOLE To: GREG BELL (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 7336 (PC BOARD CAD PROGS) Hi, Greg. . I'm a self-employed technical consultant in circuit, systems, and software design, and I also run a CAD PCB design service company. Most of my work involves embedded processors in machine control systems of one type or another. Mostly I program in C and assembly language, and I'm currently teaching myself Ada with the help of the RR Software Janus/ADA compiler and tutorial. I also do management consulting, often by default or in a self-defensive attempt at retaining my sanity (but we won't get into that right now ). . I'm also sysop of a free-access engineering, programming, and CAD BBS. Its main purpose is in support of my clients and customers, but since it isn't wildly busy at that task I offer its services to the public for free. The main areas of interest are engineering, CAD, and programming languages (mostly C and Ada). If you want to look it over, it's the Leo Technology BBS at (603) 432-2517, 300-1200-2400, 8-N-1. . . . . . . ep Msg#: 7063 *GENERAL* 09/02/88 01:45:55 From: ERIC POOLE To: ANTHONY SCIPIONE (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 6848 (LOGIC DESIGN SOFTWARE) Anthony, Try SCHEM.ARC and LOGSIM.ARC, both available in the IBM PC library here on the board. Limited in capability but the price is right. . . . . . ep Msg#: 7068 *GENERAL* 09/02/88 02:31:49 From: EDDIE WHITE To: MARK LAMPKIN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 6960 (1802,4,5 CROSS ASSEMBLER) The C User Group has an 1802 cross assembler written in C (also on the disk is a 6800 xasm.) Its written by W. Colley, source is included, but the version I have is for CP/M. Don't know if there is a dos version. Contact the: C Users Group Box 97 415 E. Euclid McPherson, KS 67640 316-241-1065 Msg#: 7071 *GENERAL* 09/02/88 06:41:01 From: MARK LAMPKIN To: EDDIE WHITE (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 7068 (1802,4,5 CROSS ASSEMBLER) Ed,thanks for the info..I got a copy of the Psuedo Sam assembler.I know this is not for the "state of the art" micro,however,when you have the stuff sitting around you might as well use it,besides,I think in a lot of cases the CDP1802 is a pretty powerful micro.Not much attention was ever paid to it,I think because it was from RCA,not Intel.Anyhow....thanks.....m ark Msg#: 7091 *GENERAL* 09/02/88 12:35:35 From: BOB PADDOCK To: MARK LAMPKIN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 7071 (1802,4,5 CROSS ASSEMBLER) The milatary payed alot of attention to the 1802 because it was from RCA. Sence the 1802 was the first true CMOS CPU and could be made with Silcon-On-Siaphier (SOS) tecknolage, for radiation harding you will probably be able to get 1802, for at least the next 25 years. A lot of satalites use RAD harddend 1802's........ Msg#: 7123 *GENERAL* 09/03/88 10:38:32 From: MARK LAMPKIN To: BOB PADDOCK (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 7091 (1802,4,5 CROSS ASSEMBLER) Bob,thanks for the assembler.As far as the military and the 1802,we did a job for the Army and there was an inquiry as to the possibility of changing the 80C32 in the equipment to the 1802.As far as we are concerned,that would mean a total redesign of h'ware and s'ware.Iused to design quite a bit of equipment around the 1802,when I was with a different company.I cut my teeth on a COSMAC ELF from "Quest Electronis" and really wanted to build a new data gathering system for the outdoor environment.After little soul-searching I decided to use the "old" 1802.For a remote analog aquisition system,the 1802 has 16 internal 16-bit registers.....With care,no RAM required in the system,only CMOS Eprom....Si mple system.......Mark.... Msg#: 7224 *GENERAL* 09/07/88 01:49:46 From: KEN HOWELL To: MARK LAMPKIN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 6975 (1802,4,5 CROSS ASSEMBLER) Wow! You're doing what I've been *planning* for several years! I will definitely look forward to your Ink articles! Please tell me in the interim, however, what valves/pressure sensors/ etc. you are using. --Ken. Msg#: 7257 *GENERAL* 09/07/88 19:38:25 From: MARK LAMPKIN To: KEN HOWELL (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 7224 (1802,4,5 CROSS ASSEMBLER) Ken,,,This,if nothing else,will be interesting for me...We are now in the process of closing on a new,(built in 1928),house with steam heat.So,if all goes well,I will be doing everything in this house from scratch,except the existing hardware that is in use in my present house...Actually it will be fun applying it to steam,as gas/forced air was a piece of cake.The hard part will be trying to find the required electo-mechanical valves at a resonable,(cheap),cost.The actual basics of H.V.A.C. type controls is quite simple..It's the very slow response of the system to a PID type algorythm that adds the challenge....As far as the other controls,most of them can be made or aquired at flea markets or surplus,(i.e.,junk), stores.....Just takes imagination....Mark Msg#: 7358 *GENERAL* 09/11/88 23:30:53 From: KEN HOWELL To: MARK LAMPKIN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 7257 (1802,4,5 CROSS ASSEMBLER) Do you use commercial sprinkler valves? --Ken Msg#: 7365 *GENERAL* 09/12/88 08:07:17 From: MARK LAMPKIN To: KEN HOWELL (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 7358 (1802,4,5 CROSS ASSEMBLER) Ken....The valves are from "Rainbird".The local hardware store has them for about $20 a pop...The other way to do it,and successfully I might add,is to find a local washing machine parts store.They have vales for replacement that cost about $14 or $15 each.The nice part is they are dual valves....Hot and Cold for a washer,so now you get a valve in a "Y' configuration...Use it as a one line into two splitter and run two small orfice sprinkler heads.....The valves are 110vac control solenoids,so use a solid stae relay or build an AC switch with a triac and an opto-coupler like the MOC3012 from Motorola......Mark Msg#: 7491 *GENERAL* 09/16/88 02:08:49 From: EDDIE WHITE To: MARK LAMPKIN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 7365 (1802,4,5 CROSS ASSEMBLER) If you try to operate those 110vac valves on 18-28vdc I think you will find they will operate just fine. A whole bunch safer (you will not need GFI's) and much easier to work with. The only problems I've run into is some relays tend to be a little sluggish. When switching large loads they arc and spark and make a mess after awhile. Msg#: 7498 *GENERAL* 09/16/88 08:56:57 From: KEN HOWELL To: EDDIE WHITE (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 7491 (1802,4,5 CROSS ASSEMBLER) Great. I gan get the rainbirds locally for about $10. I like them because they're one of the few valves that have variable flow. Thanks for the information. I look forward to your article. --Ken. Reply has been deleted Msg#: 7069 *GENERAL* 09/02/88 02:32:24 From: EDDIE WHITE To: BRIAN JOSEPH (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 6084 (REMOTE TURN-ON VIA TELEPHONE) If your going to connect your toy after a type approved phone switch, then you don't need to worry about fcc approval. The switch already has the approval and the protection circuits. This applies only to on-premises equipment such as the Starlog, AT&T System 75, or Northern Telcom SL-1. However, this does not apply to a central office based pbx like Centrex or Essex. Msg#: 7126 *GENERAL* 09/03/88 11:10:00 From: BRIAN JOSEPH To: EDDIE WHITE (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 7069 (REMOTE TURN-ON VIA TELEPHONE) Thanks for the info. Msg#: 7088 *GENERAL* 09/02/88 11:18:15 From: LARRY YOUNKINS To: DICK FAIRBANKS (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 6846 (AT&T 212A) Dick, I too made quite a few calls to AT&T to figure this out. I eventually (with the help of Eddie White on this BBS) was able to determine where the Tip and Ring signals from the key set connect to the modem, and with some experimentation finally got the thing working! I'll see if I can dig up the pin connections. Larry Younkins Msg#: 7100 *GENERAL* 09/02/88 19:15:39 From: ANDY PICKETT To: JIM BONNER Subj: LASER WRITING Jim - I recently saw your messages from 3 or 4 months ago about laser writing. I have just come across a couple of lasers (a 10 mW HeNe and a 10 mW Argon), and I would very much like to do some laser writing. I have already used the rotating mirror approach for the "raster scan" you spoke of, and also have created simple (?) spirograph-type effects. The actual fuction of WRITING, however, still slightly eludes me. Is there any publication or something I may be able to refer to in order to do this? Thanks for your help. ---> Andy <--- Msg#: 7106 *GENERAL* 09/02/88 22:15:53 From: TERRY ROSE To: JONATHAN STOTT (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 6908 (AMIGA) I also use a compaq portable III at work. While I love the speed of the compaq, the Amiga has got it beat on ease of use for both hardware configuration and user friendliness. I sure do wish I could blend the two together. Terry :-) Msg#: 7109 *GENERAL* 09/02/88 22:44:41 From: BOB MAHONEY To: DAVE EVERS (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 6951 (PAL DESIGN/PROGRAMMING) Dave, as long as the CUPL produces a JEDEC fuse plot, I think it will work. I haven't tried it though, as I have been using the freebie versions of PALASM (I think I saw one on this board). If you get CUPL from JDR, let me know if it is a complete package or if it has been crippled so that it works only with a few devices. I've been interested in getting it myself as I hear it is much better than PALASM, but I wasn't sure if the low cost versions will handle a wide selection of PALS. Msg#: 7204 *GENERAL* 09/06/88 17:54:27 From: DAVE EVERS To: BOB MAHONEY (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 7109 (PAL DESIGN/PROGRAMMING) Thanks for the reply - I am going to order it in the next week or so and we'll see what it does. I'll drop a note to you here with any info I can find. Msg#: 7114 *GENERAL* 09/03/88 02:27:22 From: ALLAN LONG To: TERRY ROSE Subj: PRACTICAL JOKES What is nitrogen iodide and where do you get/make it? Inquiring minds want to know! Msg#: 7176 *GENERAL* 09/06/88 01:31:54 From: KEITH TUCHOLSKI To: ALLAN LONG (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 7114 (PRACTICAL JOKES) nitrogen tri -iodine is made by mixing iodine cystals with ammonia. the precipitate is filtered out, rinsed with slight amount of water, and allowed to dry. the compound becomes unstable as it dries,as the bond is weak. a slight jar, and POOF!!!! Msg#: 7186 *GENERAL* 09/06/88 09:52:10 From: STEVE CIARCIA To: KEITH TUCHOLSKI (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 7176 (PRACTICAL JOKES) Actually, there are two kinds of stuff that you can get depending upon the concentration of chemicals used. If you use concentrated Ammonium Hydroxide and Iodine crystals, you get REAL Nitrogen Tri-Iodide which is a BLACK precipitant. Keep it wet if you know what's good for you. If you mix Iodine crystals with less concentrated ammonia, you get Nitrogen-Ammonia-triIodide (N-NH3-I3 if I remember my highschool chemistry) which is a BROWN precipitant. This is less explosive and what most people end up with. I, of course specialized in the former. -- A former mad bomber Msg#: 7266 *GENERAL* 09/08/88 01:00:35 From: ALLAN LONG To: KEITH TUCHOLSKI (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 7176 (PRACTICAL JOKES) Did you ever try the one with swimming pool chlorine and groom and clean or score (clear) hair gels? You take a plastic sandwich bag and put a couple of tablespoons full of chlorine in one corner of the bag and twist it closed then put an equal amount in the other corner. When the two are combined well in about sixty seconds it gets real warm.... Another former mad bomber recipe. Msg#: 7320 *GENERAL* 09/09/88 14:31:31 From: NEIL CHERRY To: ALLAN LONG (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 7266 (PRACTICAL JOKES) I tried something simular when I was thirteen and ended up with third degree burns on the left side of my face, and left arm. My hand stayed black for an entire month. My advise is not to play with any chlorine!!!!! NJC Msg#: 7715 *GENERAL* 09/21/88 17:07:47 From: JOHN COOK To: ALLAN LONG (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 7114 (PRACTICAL JOKES) I've had this conversation every once in a while and I usually hear about some pretty strange mixtures of highly volatile chemicals, chlorine being a common addative that produces rather good results. Personally the best I ever did was launch a model rocket up through a pressurised bag of gasoline and air. The results were real good but I recomend being about thirty feet away if you try it! another former mad bomber Msg#: 9480 *GENERAL* 11/01/88 01:42:00 From: ALLAN LONG To: JOHN COOK (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 7715 (PRACTICAL JOKES) I must admit that I never thought of that! Sanity maintenance indeed. I dont really want to leave the earthly plane that fast but it does leave sort of a graphic mental picture doesnt it. Msg#: 7118 *GENERAL* 09/03/88 06:26:21 From: RON BEAN To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: NS32000 INFO WANTED Do you know of any companies that make computers using the 32000 series CPU's from National Semiconductor (Single Board Computers, S100 boards, etc.)? I'm sure Nat Semi must make development or evaluation systems. I'm wondering if there are any that would be affordable for a hobbyist, and what they use for system software (if any). I bought the "Series 32000 Programmer's Reference Manual" a while back-- the more I look at the 68000's instruction set, the better I like the 32000. I don't need the fastest CPU and I don't need floating point, but I would like an MMU for virtual memory (which also means some kind of hard-disk interface, most likely SCSI). There's quite an 'underground' supporting generic 68K systems-- Single Board Computers from several sources, several 3rd party operating systems (including a couple that are inexpensive enough for a hobbyist on a budget), and a magazine (68 Micro Journal, although it leans toward generic 'C' programming). I wondered if anything analogous existed for the 32K (if the Ti99 people can do it, anyone can). I know there are some 32K fanatics out there (do any of them run BBS's?). By the way, are you reachable through FIDONET or any of the other nets? Msg#: 7124 *GENERAL* 09/03/88 10:47:29 From: MARK LAMPKIN To: GENERAL Subj: N.S. 8073 A little of the threads of a lot of the current conversation....Has anyone built a system with the National Semiconductor 8073.It is a CPU with internal Basic in ROM,also,but thats where the 8052 similarity ends....Ther e was a company advertising in both EDN and the old Kilobaud Microcomputing that offered a single board system.- They were testing a new XMOS process from Nat. Semi.The standard 4.0 Mhz 8073 was running 20 Mhz.......Needless to say,a very fast Basic Interp..... If anyone has any knowledge of this,can you share it?.....Mark Msg#: 7195 *GENERAL* 09/06/88 12:11:15 From: BOB PADDOCK To: MARK LAMPKIN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 7124 (N.S. 8073) The last I heard National had discontiued the 8073, best to check with yur local N.S. Rep. before you start designing in one. Msg#: 7250 *GENERAL* 09/07/88 14:03:53 From: STEVE CIARCIA To: BOB PADDOCK (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 7195 (N.S. 8073) There is an even better story that goes along with the 8073. National says (I got this from some people high up in marketing) that the 8073 was never a successful product because some guy (yours truly :-) ) published a article on using the Z8671 just about the time the 8073 was introduced that cause everyone to ignore the 8073. For 6 years all they ever did was give away samples. There was never any significant production orders for the 8073. --Steve PS. Interestingly, I contacted National BEFORE the Z8671 about using the 8073 in a project. They ignored me (of course, this was back in 1980)! When I contacted Zilog, they welcomed me with open arms (the Z8 marketing manager was a Circuit Cellar reader). The rest is history. Msg#: 7256 *GENERAL* 09/07/88 19:27:34 From: MARK LAMPKIN To: BOB PADDOCK (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 7195 (N.S. 8073) Bob...I had heard the same thing about 2 years ago....The news came to me from an engineer at DIGI-KEY.They market a single board based on the 8073 and at the time were worried.I don't know if they are still selling the board,but there are a number of discount houses still selling the chip.I'm not designing a product with it,but still have 8 or 9 sitting around....... ...Mark Msg#: 7269 *GENERAL* 09/08/88 08:00:41 From: BOB PADDOCK To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 7250 (N.S. 8073) National never does seem to do vary well with there CPUs, for example SC/MP SC/MP-II (8060), 8073, and probably otheres. '&hb]They do seem to do well with the 4bit COPs stuff tho. A coleage of mine here was evaluationg CPUs, and decided the{ 32K family was the highst preformance maching going (at the time), but all we got from National were broken promesis about avaiablity of there CMOS 32K stuff, so we went with the 63000 (Latter the 68HC000) from Hitachi/Motorla, will never even consider an other National CPU after our experence, which is do bad because they do have some grate parts. Its just to bad you can't get them when you need them. Msg#: 7125 *GENERAL* 09/03/88 10:53:19 From: BENNIE BACON To: KEN DAVIDSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 6865 (BCC52 OPCODES) I've been working on a timing loop based on my computers clock speed. (5.1 Mhz) However something is not quite right. I've stepped through the code and every thing seems to work correctly, with the proper house, key, and function code being read and outputed. It's got to be the timing. Oh. well. Thanks again for all the help. Ben. Msg#: 7134 *GENERAL* 09/03/88 23:04:07 From: ANDREAS DESSOFF To: ALL Subj: SCOPE WANTED I am still trying to find a used 30-40 MHz analog dual channel scope if possible with delayed sweep. There must be somebody out there wanting to sell one! Leave a message here or call me at (203)374-3379 if you have one for sale. If you know where to buy one new and cheaply (must be substantially less than $500, i.e. I am asking a lot), I would also appreciate a hint. Thanks . . . . . . Andy. Msg#: 7136 *GENERAL* 09/03/88 23:58:27 From: STEVE SAMPSON To: ANDREAS DESSOFF (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 7134 (SCOPE WANTED) Re: 40 MHz. This is really top of the line stuff your looking for. I doubt you'll find anything in the $500 price range. You can probably find a new one for about $2000 or so. The delayed sweep really boosts the price for some reason. I picked up a 15 MHz delayed sweep for a trade of a Franklin Ace Apple II clone. I think I lucked out on that. For about $3000 you start getting into 60 MHz stuff. I hope you get lucky... Msg#: 7145 *GENERAL* 09/04/88 19:45:53 From: ANDREAS DESSOFF To: STEVE SAMPSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 7136 (SCOPE WANTED) Thanks for the answer, Steve. JDR for instance sells new delayed 35 MHz dial channel scopes for $499. I have seen Hitachi offered discounted with same specs for just under $700. Right now I would rather not spend the money for either, yet I need a scope .... thus I am trying to do still better.. . . . . Andy. Msg#: 7147 *GENERAL* 09/04/88 22:41:28 From: STEVE SAMPSON To: ANDREAS DESSOFF (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 7145 (SCOPE WANTED) Gee, I hadn't realized delayed sweep, high bandwidth scopes were that cheap now-a-days! I'll have to re-evalute everything I've said. By the way, after using a scope for the past year, I wonder how I got along without one before. They really come in handy. I have a Philips 25 MHz (I thought it was 15) and that seems to suffice for just about everything I do with it. Msg#: 7173 *GENERAL* 09/05/88 23:54:30 From: ANDREAS DESSOFF To: STEVE SAMPSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 7147 (SCOPE WANTED) I would have felt the same way about scope prices, had I not checked just recently. Me, I always wanted one but up to now they were out of reach. Now I'll get one as soon as the price is right! Msg#: 7856 *GENERAL* 09/26/88 03:05:42 From: ROY CLAY To: ANDREAS DESSOFF (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 7134 (SCOPE WANTED) You might want to check out the ham flea markets in the local area. I recently picked up a TEK 545 for $80. Its a monster but I use it on my bench so I don't have to carry around and it gives me about 32 MHz BW. If you don't know any hams tune you scanner to the 144-148 MHz range or check out your local newstand for some ham magazines. Most carry 73 and CQ. Some electronic stores also carry QST. These all have listings of when these hamfests occur. Msg#: 7958 *GENERAL* 09/30/88 18:31:43 From: ANDREAS DESSOFF To: ROY CLAY Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 7856 (SCOPE WANTED) Thanks, Roy. I have in the meantime bought a used Heathkit 2 channel scope that was in need of repair. Bandwidth is 15 MHz. Price $120. It needed $15 worth of parts. I am satisfied even though the 15 MHz is a little less than I wanted. Msg#: 7135 *GENERAL* 09/03/88 23:34:19 From: SILAS ANTONE To: ALL Subj: Z8 AUTO-APPLICATION IN 1987 I PURCHASED A MAZDA RX-7, AND LATELY I'VE BEEN CONSIDERING SOME MODIFICATIONS. BY INTERFACING TO THE DEALER OPIONS (POWER WINDOWS, POWER DOOR LOCKS, POWER ANTENNA, RETRACTABLE LIGHTS AND SUNROOF), THE POSSIBILITIES ARE ENDLESS!!! AFTER ENDLESS HOURS OF FLIPPING THROUGH STEVE'S ARTICLES IN BYTE, I DECIDED ON THE Z8671 (JUL, AUG 81'). COST AND THE LACK OF A DEVELOPEMENT SYS WERE THE MAIN REASON FOR THE DECISION. JDR CARRIES THE Z8 BUT NOT THE MATCHING QUASI-STATIC RAM (Z6132). ALSO I DON'T HAVE A SOURCE FOR DOCUMENTATION, JDR OFFERS A COUPLE OF PAGES OUT OF THE ZILOG MANUAL FOR $3.50. WHICH DOES'NT INCLUDED ANY TIMING INFORMATION! DOES ZILOG OFFER A PIA FOR THE Z8 FAMILY? ONE OF MY MANY CONCERNS IS ELEC. NOISE FROM THE RX-7'S FOUR IGNITION COILS. I TOOK A LOOK AT THE CARS COMPUTER AND IT IS ENCLOSED IN A METAL CASE. WOULD THE POWER SUPPLY REQUIRE SPECIAL FILTERING. IF ANYONE COULD OFFER ANY ASSISTANCE IT WOULD BE MORE THEN WELCOME. Msg#: 7184 *GENERAL* 09/06/88 09:26:35 From: JEFF BACHIOCHI To: SILAS ANTONE (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 7135 (Z8 AUTO-APPLICATION) . Silas, . The Zilog's 8671 is still a neat chip even though it's been around awhile. You don't need the quasi-static RAMs Zilog has mentioned, the standard 2/8/32K CMOS RAMs are fine. Development systems for it are a bit slim but I know of 2. Z8 Cross Assemblers are available through MICROMINT from Allen Ashley and from Micro Resources. You'll notice from all the talk on the board, that the Intel 8052 (80C52 from MICROMINT) is used in many projects. It is slightly easier to use then the Z8. Every processor has its project and the Z8 is well suited for many! . As far as enclosing the processor in a metal box, you won't get away without shielding the whole computer from the EMI produced by the ignition and charging systems. . Noise will also try to enter the computer through the power supply. The 12v must be filtered to remove the noise riding on it. . This is a tough environment to work in and is just one more example of how computers will control our future (be it good or bad) . jeff Msg#: 7138 *GENERAL* 09/04/88 00:43:44 From: CHUCK FRYAR To: RON WILSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 6707 (PROJECTION TV) Ron - Sorry for the delay in gettin back to you. I have seen heaths, but I am holding out for high resolution - probably home made. Thanks ++ Chuck Msg#: 7139 *GENERAL* 09/04/88 00:46:35 From: CHUCK FRYAR To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 6711 (PROJECTION TV) Steve - Thanks for the reply. Sorry it's been so long answering, I'm getting ready to go on vacation for 2 weeks. High resolution is a must, to the point of not bothering with anything less. I may play with projection of hi brightness screens and projecting myself, anyway, back to research for a while. Thanks again, and thanks for a SUPER bbs. +++ chuck Msg#: 7140 *GENERAL* 09/04/88 00:47:36 From: CHUCK FRYAR To: KEN DAVIDSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 6730 (PROJECTION TV) Thanks for the reply ken, I'll see what theyve got. You might want to check my reply to Steve, and see you in two weeks. ++ Chuck Msg#: 7191 *GENERAL* 09/06/88 10:51:40 From: RON WILSON To: CHUCK FRYAR (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 7138 (PROJECTION TV) The only even moderately high resolution I know of for less than $50,000 is made by Proton; cost is $15,000. - Good luck. Msg#: 7635 *GENERAL* 09/19/88 21:51:23 From: CHUCK FRYAR To: RON WILSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 7191 (PROJECTION TV) Thanks Ron, it looks like I may have to modify my needs. +++ Chuck Msg#: 7160 *GENERAL* 09/05/88 12:43:20 From: JAMES MEYER To: ALL Subj: LOW COST DEV. TOOLS Heathkit has a real "sleeper" listed in their fall catalog number 213. It is a LOW COST LOGIC ANALYZER. It has a 16 bit wide data input with one clock and two clock qualifier inputs. It communicates over an autobaud RS-232 port to any computer or dumb terminal. It comes with a disk of MS-DOS (IBM PC compatable) files that will let you save data to disk and printers. Capacity is 2046, 16 bit words at 10 Mhz. Last but best is the price....$269.00. About an order of magnitude less than any other instrument I've ever seen. Of course it's a kit, but for me, that just makes it fun as well as useful. I put mine together in about 5 hours and have been using it for 4 months now. If you have a scope, a logic analyzer should be your next acquisition. The ability to see EXACTLY what is going on in my uP systems has saved me many hours of debug time. Heathkit should have put this one on the front page in BIG red letters. I didn't see the small copy buried in the middle of the catalog and found out about it from a review in a trade magazine which I was sure had the price wrong. A call to Heath confirmed the price and I ordered one the next day. I can recomend it wholeheartedly. Msg#: 7163 *GENERAL* 09/05/88 14:49:15 From: JOHN BARTON To: ALL Subj: TELCO EQUIPMENT Can anyone suggest a reasonably priced source for telco type 25 pair punch down blocks -- stuff like terminals, tools, etc. I would like to do some wiring within our building using that type of equipment. I already have most of the cable I need, but do not have a ready source (except Black Box Corp -- expensive) of the terminating stuff for making a neat & tidy installation. . For anyone with access to a laser printer with a small, fixed pitch landscape font (16 pitch), I have a great shareware utility program ($35) called 4PRINT. It will read through a text file and format it for printing four 66 line 80 column pages on a single sheet of paper. Saves a tremondous amount of paper when printing stuff -- like all of the text from the CCBBS. It includes page numbering, titles and lots of other options. If anyone is interested I will upload it with the SYSOPs permission. Msg#: 7183 *GENERAL* 09/06/88 08:46:20 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: JOHN BARTON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 7163 (TELCO EQUIPMENT) I could have sworn I had at least one or two other sources for punch-down blocks besides Black Box, but can't find them. I always thought that their $10 price for the block is pretty reasonable, though. You can get tools from a couple other places. Both Time Motion Tools and Contact East have punch-down tools, warblers, handsets, and others stuff. You can contact them at Time Motion Tools, 410 South Douglas St., El Segundo, CA 90245, (213) 772-8170 and Contact East, 335 Willow St. South, P.O. Box 786, North Andover, MA 01845, (617) 682-2000. Msg#: 7523 *GENERAL* 09/16/88 19:26:10 From: JOHN BARTON To: KEN DAVIDSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 7183 (TELCO EQUIPMENT) Thank you for the information. I'll contact them and see what they have. Msg#: 7171 *GENERAL* 09/05/88 23:27:10 From: KEN HOWELL To: KEN DAVIDSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 6704 (PC PURSUIT) PCP is still not working all the time, at least from my location. I still get " not operating." --Ken. Msg#: 7181 *GENERAL* 09/06/88 08:22:08 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: KEN HOWELL (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 7171 (PC PURSUIT) That's interesting. The last time I tried it, I was able to connect with a modem, but always got a busy when dialing. The people in charge have confirmed that there are telco problems. I'll have to try it again tonight. I fully understand the problem having to deal with Southern New England Telephone. Msg#: 7172 *GENERAL* 09/05/88 23:27:35 From: KEN HOWELL To: ROY CLAY (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 6856 (ENCLOSURES) Thanks for the info. --Ken. Msg#: 7178 *GENERAL* 09/06/88 02:14:26 From: PETER CHRISTENSEN To: KEN DAVIDSON (Rcvd) Subj: CP/M I have a question for anyone with more knowledge about CP/M than me. The computer I have is capible of running MS-DOS and CP/M maybe you have heard of the brand name SEEQUA CHAMELEON , anyway my question is this does anyone know of a communications program that will run on this type of machine. Or a way to transfer the files form MS-DOS disk format to . Thanks for the help . . Pete Christensen Msg#: 7182 *GENERAL* 09/06/88 08:23:37 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: PETER CHRISTENSEN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 7178 (CP/M) I've heard of the machine, but that's about it. There are plenty of CP/M communication programs around, but the tricky part is finding an overlay that matches your machine. I haven't seen one for yours. Anyone else have a clue? Msg#: 7857 *GENERAL* 09/26/88 03:11:52 From: ROY CLAY To: PETER CHRISTENSEN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 7178 (CP/M) The best place to look for something like that is FOG, the First Osborne Group. They have communication programs for many flavors of CP/M machines. Dues are $25 per year and they have a tremendous PD library. The address is P. O. Box 3474, Daly City, CA 94015 Msg#: 8119 *GENERAL* 10/06/88 01:34:49 From: PETER CHRISTENSEN To: ROY CLAY Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 7857 (CP/M) Thanks for the informati I'll be subscribing to the FOG as soon my next computer allowance comes in :-) . . Thanks for the help P.Christensen Msg#: 7179 *GENERAL* 09/06/88 02:40:27 From: CHUCK DAVIS To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: HAL4 Hi Steve, I have been trying to create, or learn how to create a COMMO routine for the Amiga. Kinda tough. Has anyone back there succeeded in doing it, yet? Creating interupts for RS232 isn't easy without a C compiler. 2) Will there be a 4 channel version for COMMO 3) I notice there are expansion capabilities for 4 more channel. Will that come to fuition? May I nit-pick a bit and say that the "FFT" routine is not a true FFT, but a `fast' DFT? 3) Are there any other folks porting to the Amiga. They might have easier time of it than I am. Lastly, may I say that the board and kit is quality work. ChuckD.... Msg#: 7185 *GENERAL* 09/06/88 09:34:36 From: STEVE CIARCIA To: CHUCK DAVIS (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 7179 (HAL4) While some HALs have been sold to AMIGA users, none has reported an AMIGA only routine. We'll post it when we receive one. I've been talking to the software designers who worked on HAL. The hardware is already 4 channel but, unless it is restricted to AT or 386 use, a PC is too slow to analyze and display 4 channels. The expansion would allow 4 more channels, for a total of 8 (needs the front end circuitry of a second HAL board). Finally, we all agree that it is truly a fast DFT. --Steve Msg#: 7352 *GENERAL* 09/11/88 05:38:35 From: CHUCK DAVIS To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 7185 (HAL4) THANX STEVE, I really appreciate your being there. I've been hassling an Interrupt Routine on the Amiga. Needless to say, the ROM Kernal routines seems to difficult to implement. Trying to learn C on the fly is not easy. Assembly would be better. Anyway, I'll keep plugging! ChuckD.... Msg#: 7208 *GENERAL* 09/06/88 20:30:22 From: ROBERT SHANKS To: ALL Subj: MICROPROCESSOR ORIENTED BBS'S I noticed in an earlier message someone mentioned the Intel BBS. I would be very interested in having that number. I've been working with the 8031 for a while and figured Intel had a BBS, but could not even get the number from the folks at Intel! (Guess I was talking to the wrong folks - big company.) I do have the number for the Motorola BBS (512-440-2725). Haven't been using their processors, but they did seem to have some interesting stuff... a C cross-compiler for the 68HC11 for the downloading. Does anyone know of a public domain or low cost C cross-compiler for the 8051 family?! The only C cross-compilers I know of are a kilobuck and up. I'm using Avocet AVMAC/AVSIM51 (assembler/simulator) which is wonderful stuff, but I can't afford their C package. Thanks - Robert Msg#: 7229 *GENERAL* 09/07/88 07:42:04 From: BOB PADDOCK To: ROBERT SHANKS (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 7208 (MICROPROCESSOR ORIENTED BBS'S) Intel's BBS # is 916 985 2308. Don't get your hopes up to high tho they don't have alot of 8031 stuff on it. The number Motorla's BBS is 512-440-FREE, I think you have the old marketing BBS number, insted of the tec. number. Msg#: 7261 *GENERAL* 09/07/88 23:00:52 From: ROBERT SHANKS To: BOB PADDOCK (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 7229 (MICROPROCESSOR ORIENTED BBS'S) Thanks Bob - I'll check it out. Msg#: 7903 *GENERAL* 09/28/88 11:59:45 From: CHUCK SIMMERS To: ROBERT SHANKS (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 7208 (MICROPROCESSOR ORIENTED BBS'S) The number you refer to in California is for EPLD's (eraseable, programmable logic devices). It has no connection with the microcontroller group in Chandler,AZ. Msg#: 7218 *GENERAL* 09/07/88 00:01:27 From: ALEX LEYN To: ALL Subj: 68000 CROSS ASSEMBLER Hello all, I am looking for a 68xxx cross-aseembler to run on the IBM PC AT (80286 uP). If anyone has any info, please leave me a note. Alex Leyn Msg#: 7228 *GENERAL* 09/07/88 07:39:18 From: BOB PADDOCK To: ALEX LEYN Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 7218 (68000 CROSS ASSEMBLER) Looking the 'Other' section here for a file called X68000.ARC. It may be what you are looking for. Msg#: 7319 *GENERAL* 09/09/88 14:20:56 From: NEIL CHERRY To: ALEX LEYN Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 7218 (68000 CROSS ASSEMBLER) Also check the motorola bbs (512-440-FREE , thanks you guys!). NJC Msg#: 7237 *GENERAL* 09/07/88 09:25:35 From: ALAN GOLDSTEIN To: THOMAS BARNETT (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 5736 (EARLY MICRO'S) . Just to throw my two bits in.. My first computer project was from Electronics Illustrated. It consisted of a telephone dial which sent pulses through a vacuum tube buffer/amplifier to several banks of neon lights (9 banks of ten lights). Neon lights have slightly different firing voltages, so by sorting them within each row, the lights would sequence as the pulses came in. Complementary numbers were painted on the dial to enter 9's complement numbers for subtraction. The only solid state device was a 75 volt zener to regulate the low voltage power to the neons (of course the tube used B+ - about 175v for the uninitiated). My, but times have changed. Msg#: 7262 *GENERAL* 09/07/88 23:12:58 From: THOMAS BARNETT To: ALAN GOLDSTEIN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 7237 (EARLY MICRO'S) I was an ET in the Navy in the 60's aboard a mine sweeper. We had a sonar aboard labeled UQS-2, I think. I still recall the 148 6x4 trioed amplifiers used to produce part of the 100KC video signal which appeared on the screen as a 15 deg wedge. It could be rotated forward and reverse with a hand crank on the console front. I don't recall much about the rest of the console, but there were four bays of racked drawers filled with tubes of every size, shape and description one could imagine. The final power amplifier had twin tubes the size of a football with two large fans blowing directly across them. Facinating that technology has reduced that type of operation to cigar box size. -Thomas- Msg#: 7289 *GENERAL* 09/08/88 12:07:22 From: ALAN GOLDSTEIN To: THOMAS BARNETT (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 7262 (EARLY MICRO'S) . Well, at least you didn't have to worry about keeping warm on those chilly northern nights at sea. Ever try warming your hands on a 741 op amp? - it's just not the same. Msg#: 7305 *GENERAL* 09/08/88 21:27:06 From: THOMAS BARNETT To: ALAN GOLDSTEIN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 7289 (EARLY MICRO'S) I agree with that. Though I have warmed a finger a time or two when I got a TTL pluged in reverse. -Thomas- Msg#: 7452 *GENERAL* 09/14/88 12:13:29 From: ALAN GOLDSTEIN To: THOMAS BARNETT (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 7305 (EARLY MICRO'S) . That's a problem these days - no unique keying in the socket. Also back then there was B+ and Gnd; now you have to figure Vcc, Vdd, Vss, Vee, and a host of others. Msg#: 7462 *GENERAL* 09/15/88 01:09:46 From: THOMAS BARNETT To: ALAN GOLDSTEIN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 7452 (EARLY MICRO'S) That's true, I still have a couple of 12ax7 hanging around, I wonder if I could connect them as a RS flipflop? -Thomas- Msg#: 9644 *GENERAL* 11/04/88 12:58:17 From: KEVIN WILLIAMS To: THOMAS BARNETT (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 7462 (EARLY MICRO'S) One the subject of early micros... I have a few incomplete system that maybe someone has the missing pieces to... I have an ss-50 system that has a 5 1/4 drive controller that is two board, can't think of the manufacture right off, but the dma board for the contoller is missing does anyone know anything about this?? I would be willing to get the set if possible or just the dma, or any ss-50 5 1/4 controller, or 8 controller. I also need a cabinet for an 8 inch drive, cant find one now. the drives are 8 inch shugarts(sp). I am also looking for disk controler for a trs-80 mod IV. I might also be interested in other ss-50 and s-100 boards. leave a message, or call my board---Micro Ace. 703-641-4863, more software than hardware oriented. thanks Msg#: 9878 *GENERAL* 11/09/88 20:15:33 From: THOMAS BARNETT To: KEVIN WILLIAMS Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 9644 (EARLY MICRO'S) I have a few S-100 boards still around, 8K static RAM & 8080 CPU, video board by SSM and some odds and ends. Thomas Msg#: 7240 *GENERAL* 09/07/88 12:32:57 From: RICK OBER To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: X-10 CIRCUIT I have an old x-10 type system which refuses to "talk" between the two 110 volt lines in my house. I've tried a .01 mfd cap between them but still a problem. Have you seen this before and, if so, how can it be checked or corrected? Thanks for the help. Msg#: 7248 *GENERAL* 09/07/88 13:47:42 From: STEVE CIARCIA To: RICK OBER (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 7240 (X-10 CIRCUIT) Try usin a 1 UFd 600V cap. A .01 may not be enough. --Steve PS. Careful about fusing. BTW, this was discussed some time ago here and was published in one of the first couple issues of CC INK. Msg#: 7252 *GENERAL* 09/07/88 14:27:21 From: JEFF BACHIOCHI To: RICK OBER (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 7240 (X-10 CIRCUIT) . Rick, . Getting BSR transmissions from one phase to another is a problem. 240 volt appliances which are ON will bridge the gap. I don't think you can depend on the water heater or other 240 volt appliance being ON all the time. . Sometimes you can't get by with just a CAP. X-10 POWERHOUSE is planning to release a new product which can supply opto-isolated connections (receive, transmit and zero-crossing) to and from the 120 volt line. The outputs are open collector and need to be pulled up by the user interface. Using two such devices, one on each phase, you could pick up BSR transmissions from on line and retransmit them onto the second phase. Since each command is repeated three times during each half cycle, one should fall on the zero-crossing of the second phase. . jeff Msg#: 7293 *GENERAL* 09/08/88 16:11:57 From: RICK OBER To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 7248 (X-10 CIRCUIT) thanks for the info, I'll try that. Msg#: 7294 *GENERAL* 09/08/88 16:13:03 From: RICK OBER To: JEFF BACHIOCHI (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 7252 (X-10 CIRCUIT) I'll watch for info on this device, thank's for the help. Msg#: 7241 *GENERAL* 09/07/88 13:06:45 From: ART GALLO To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: BAR CODE READERS I am interested in building a Bar Code Reader for interface to my PC. Are there any past projects which dealt with this subject? I know others have had small articles in the past, however, I cannot seem to find a comprehensive source for the combination of hardware and software required to implement a simple Bar Code Reader. Any information would be helpful. Msg#: 7249 *GENERAL* 09/07/88 13:51:22 From: STEVE CIARCIA To: ART GALLO (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 7241 (BAR CODE READERS) I haven't done such a project but we might some day. In the mean time, contact NCR corp and see if they have any application literature on their bar code stuff. They are very big in the field including bar code "chips". --Steve Msg#: 7265 *GENERAL* 09/07/88 23:21:22 From: ROBERT SHANKS To: ALL Subj: PSEUDO SAM ASSEMBLERS Has anyone worked with Psedo Sam cross-assemblers? I'm covered for the 8051 family, but every once in a while I'll need a cross-assm for some other processor. There is a batch of these (6502,1802,6800,8051,8048,8096) on a local university BBS. I downloaded the Z80, it seemed pretty straight-up, but I haven't tried any code yet. Also has anyone tried the C Users Group (William C. Colley III) cross-assemblers. I'm not interested in bashing anyones product, just want some feedback. Thanks - Robert Msg#: 7275 *GENERAL* 09/08/88 10:47:08 From: DAVID GALLOWAY To: ALL Subj: VT-100 SPECS Does anyone know of a book, article, etc. that gives the specs for VT-100? I want to write a filter in C to clean up some files from a local mainframe and need to know what all those characters mean. Thanks for any help and sorry if this has been covered before and I missed it. Msg#: 7299 *GENERAL* 09/08/88 18:57:41 From: MARK BURNETTE To: ALL Subj: MULTIFUNCTION PERIPHERAL Mitsubishi has just announced what they call a "CMOS Multifunction ROM Device" - part # M6M72561J. It includes 32K Bytes of OTPROM, 2K of static RAM, a presettable 8 bit Ctr, 14 input lines, 8 output lines, and 8 programmable lines in a 68-lead PLCC with preliminary pricing at $22.50 (probably Qty 100 I'd guess). They only have prerelease data right now, so I'd wait a few weeks before pestering them, but this looks like a great companion for the 8031,32. Their address for data is: - Attn: Product Marketing Mitsubishi Electronics America, Inc. Semiconductor Division 1050 East Arques Ave. Sunnyvale, CA 94086 Msg#: 7321 *GENERAL* 09/09/88 14:35:44 From: NEIL CHERRY To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: PAL BURNERS I remember somewhere reading an article on PAL (PLA) burners, I would be interested in reading an article on how to build one or at least how they work. NJC Msg#: 7367 *GENERAL* 09/12/88 09:52:02 From: STEVE CIARCIA To: NEIL CHERRY (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 7321 (PAL BURNERS) Thanks, we are considering such an article for CC INK. Just have to decide which chip set. --Steve Msg#: 7334 *GENERAL* 09/09/88 23:28:40 From: JEFF FORT To: PUBLIC Subj: 80C31 Does anybody out there know of a resonably priced source of 80C71's? (EPROM version of the 80C31) I have a project that is space and power limeted but can't bear to part with $90 or so for the micro. Thanks for any assistance- J. Fort Msg#: 7408 *GENERAL* 09/13/88 11:17:15 From: JEFF BACHIOCHI To: JEFF FORT (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 7334 (80C31) . Jeff, . I believe you mean 87C51. . jeff Msg#: 7465 *GENERAL* 09/15/88 02:29:08 From: JEFF FORT To: JEFF BACHIOCHI (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 7408 (80C31) Yes, Ido mean 87C31. (Or maybe that bizarre OKI piggyback *)C31... Msg#: 7616 *GENERAL* 09/19/88 14:30:43 From: RON WILSON To: JEFF FORT Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 7334 (80C31) Piggy-Back?!? - Does that mean that there's a socket for the eprom ON the back of the '51 chip? Sounds interesteing...... Msg#: 7343 *GENERAL* 09/10/88 14:12:16 From: ANDY PICKETT To: EDWARD WOOD (Rcvd) Subj: ELECTRONIC COMPASS Edward: Very ironically, a couple of weeks after I had asked about using Hall-Effect devices as a sensing unit, I ran across a spec sheet from Texas Instruments. It is from their publication: "Linear and Interface Applications, Volume 3 - 1987" and the publication number is SLYA003. It uses the TL3103 Hall-Effect device (2 of 'em), a TLC251 op-amp, and 4 resistors (2 @ 100K, and 2 @ 4.7K), and THAT'S IT! I'm trying to find the TL3103's and the TLC251 right now. While this circuit is very similar to the one you obtained from Elektor Electronics, it is MUCH similar, and I am assuming right now that the parts will be much easier to obtain. If anyone is interested in seeing this schematic, please leave your name and full address on this board and I'll send you a copy. (It's the least I can do!!) ---> Andy <--- Msg#: 7389 *GENERAL* 09/12/88 23:18:35 From: EDWARD WOOD To: ANDY PICKETT (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 7343 (ELECTRONIC COMPASS) Andy, could you please send me a copy of the schematic? My address is: Edward Wood, 2-120 Inkerman St., London, Ontario, Canada N5Z 1X6 Msg#: 7390 *GENERAL* 09/13/88 00:41:14 From: DALE NASSAR To: ANDY PICKETT (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 7343 (ELECTRONIC COMPASS) Andy, I would loke a copy of the schematic: Dale Nassar 109 Camille St Amite, La. 70422 If you leave your Address I'll be glad to send SASE. --Dale Msg#: 7487 *GENERAL* 09/15/88 22:38:45 From: DON ALFONSO To: EDWARD WOOD (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 7389 (ELECTRONIC COMPASS) Andy, would like a copy of the schematic...My address: Don Alfonso, 6045 Augusta National Drive, Number 300, Orlando, FL 32822. Thanks for the offer! Msg#: 7542 *GENERAL* 09/17/88 21:04:58 From: EDWARD WOOD To: DON ALFONSO (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 7487 (ELECTRONIC COMPASS) You left your message to the wrong person. Andy is the one with the schematic using the Hall Effect sensors. Msg#: 7617 *GENERAL* 09/19/88 14:36:55 From: RON WILSON To: ANDY PICKETT (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 7343 (ELECTRONIC COMPASS) Speaking of sensing/linear uses for HAL effect, I saw a keyboard-synth that uses HAL sensors on each key to meesure both "key-stroke" velocity *and* pressure (apparrently there is a callibrated spring and HAL sensor "messures" the distance to the bottom of the key. Msg#: 7677 *GENERAL* 09/20/88 22:08:18 From: ANDY PICKETT To: RON WILSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 7617 (ELECTRONIC COMPASS) Ron: That's pretty intriguing..... I've been playing different models of the Yamaha DX-7 (currently the DX-7 II FD) for a few years now. Although I've never been inside one, I wondered how they accomplished velocity sensitive electronics with a minimum of unreliable mechanical parts. Quite an elegant solution to the problem!! ---> Andy <--- Msg#: 7705 *GENERAL* 09/21/88 13:04:25 From: RON WILSON To: ANDY PICKETT (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 7677 (ELECTRONIC COMPASS) To the best of my knowledge, Yamaha uses a piezo-electric sensor under the key rest to messure how hard keys are struck and messure "after touch" pressure for the entire keyboard at once. This new system using the linear HAL effect provides a low cost, high reliablity means to messure key press velocity and after touch pressure individualy for each key. (The piezo system is too expensive to use on each key (except for the truely top of the line synths like Fairlight and Kursweil (sp?) )) Msg#: 7822 *GENERAL* 09/24/88 21:40:50 From: DON ALFONSO To: EDWARD WOOD (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 7542 (ELECTRONIC COMPASS) Must have been a Monday. I did receive documentation from Andy just yesterday. Thanks for letting me know *:). Donnie Msg#: 7344 *GENERAL* 09/10/88 15:42:50 From: KEITH JESSE To: ALL Subj: RAM ACCESS TIMES I would like to find out just for the knowlege, how to figure out what access speed of ram one would need for any given system. What aspects of the system affect this requirement and what specs do y9ou need to take into consideration when deciding the access time required for the system? Is there a formula that I could plug in values and come up with useable answers? all Knowlegable answers welcomed, (I've heard too many old wives tales to know which have merit or not). Msg#: 7346 *GENERAL* 09/10/88 22:44:33 From: LARRY ERWIN To: ALL Subj: A/V I WOULD LIKE INFORMATION ON HOW TO CREATE TIME DELAYS IN AUDIO CIRCUITS BY USING CHARGE TRANSFER DEVICES. I NEED A CIRCUIT USING A CTD ILLUSTRATING SUPPORT COMPONENTS. I AM ALSO ATTEMPTING TO DESIGN A SIMPLE PROJECTION TV SYSTEM USING AN EXISTING TV AND A COMBINATION OF LENSES(FRESNEL?). I WOULD LIKE INFORMATION ON WHAT TYPES OF LENSES WOULD BE APPROPRIATE (APERTURE, LENS SPEED, ETC) AND A SCHEMATIC IF ANYONE HAS EVER DONE THIS BEFORE. Msg#: 7364 *GENERAL* 09/12/88 07:17:04 From: BOB PADDOCK To: LARRY ERWIN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 7346 (A/V) What type of audio, and how long do you want to delay it for? I've been toying with the idea of makeing a long audio delay line (from seconds to minits) out of a CVSD codec and RAM chip, but I need a real purpose to actualy use this thing for..... Msg#: 7745 *GENERAL* 09/22/88 15:21:21 From: CHUCK FRYAR To: LARRY ERWIN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 7346 (A/V) Larry, I have looked into a few of these and the real problem is brightness. On a normal tv, after 2x or so, the brightness droppes off ver quickly. Commercial units use special high brightness tv tubes or 3 very high intensity white tubes filtered for R,G, and B. I hope to be able to do something similar, so if you find anything good, please let me know. ++chuck Msg#: 7823 *GENERAL* 09/24/88 21:44:36 From: LARRY ERWIN To: CHUCK FRYAR (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 7745 (A/V) THANKS FOR THE REPLY. HAVE YOU EVER BUILT OR VIEWED A WORKING MODEL? IF SO, COULD YOU TELL ME WHAT TYPES OF LENSES WOULD BE NEEDED? ALSO, DO YOU KNOW WHERE A SCHEMATIC OF SUCH A DESIGN CAN BE FOUND? THANKS AGAIN Msg#: 7386 *GENERAL* 09/12/88 18:39:31 From: BOB MATTESON To: ALL Subj: 8051 TINY BASIC DOES ANYBODY KNOW OF A RELIABLE (AND CHEAP) SOURCE OF 8051s WITH TINY BASIC ON THEM. I USE VARIOUS MEMBERS OF THE 8031 FAMILY IN SOME PRODUCTS THAT I BUILD - I WOULD LIKE TO OFFER A BARE MINIMUM 8051 BOARD TO STIMULATE INTEREST IN THIS GREAT (I THINK) CPU. ALSO, IF I CAN'T GET MY HANDS ON A STEADY SUPPLY OF 8051s WITH TB, IS THE TB COPYRIGHTED ? WHO OWNS IT ? I HAVE TRIED THE AMD 8031s SOLD BY JAMECO AND I DON'T FIND ANY EVIDENCE OF TB ON THEM. ANY HELP ANYONE COULD GIVE ME, I WOULD APPRECIATE. THANKS IN ADVANCE! BOB MATTESON Msg#: 7402 *GENERAL* 09/13/88 09:46:11 From: STEVE CIARCIA To: BOB MATTESON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 7386 (8051 TINY BASIC) Check Matra-Harris. I think they market an 8051 or 8052 with a tiny BASIC. We never seriously looked at it because the Micromint 80C52 BASIC is so much better that it wasn't worth it. I would guess that the TB on the Matra-Harris chip is copywritten by them. Better get your numbers straight. An 8031 has NO Memory and therefore can have NO language. An 8051/8052 has 8K byte of internal ROM which, in the case of an 8052-BASIC chip, contains BASIC. How many of these chips do you need? --Steve Msg#: 7437 *GENERAL* 09/13/88 22:03:51 From: MARK LAMPKIN To: BOB MATTESON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 7386 (8051 TINY BASIC) Bob...We use 51's,31's and 32's,all in CMOS from Matra Semiconductors.They are an outfit in France which seems to have the shortest lead time,cheapest mask cost and has the best general attitude of wanting to work with our company.We supply the auto industry with R.F. Identification products,so the chips we use have to be of the highest quality.All our product is potted in epoxy...can't repair the electronics once thats done.On the subject of the tiny basic......Intel can supply you with the source code for their 8052AH at a cost of approx $100(?).It's actually pretty good code..but it runs in the 52...The 80C32 is very little more than the 51's..............Mark Msg#: 7602 *GENERAL* 09/19/88 10:09:23 From: JEFF BACHIOCHI To: MARK LAMPKIN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 7437 (8051 TINY BASIC) . Mark, . Micromint has worked with Matra... Why work with Tiny BASIC 8031 when you can have all the power of BASIC-52? Micromint offers a 80C52 pre masked with BASIC-52. $32 bucks will get you one! That should leave ya with pocket change! . jeff Msg#: 7624 *GENERAL* 09/19/88 19:23:04 From: MARK LAMPKIN To: JEFF BACHIOCHI (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 7602 (8051 TINY BASIC) Jeff...We do it in the 80C51 for under $5....Large volumes you and I can't touch for our hacking needs....Mark Msg#: 7658 *GENERAL* 09/20/88 17:53:41 From: JEFF BACHIOCHI To: MARK LAMPKIN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 7624 (8051 TINY BASIC) . Mark, I sometimes forget to take off my salesman cap. Micromint's $32 single piece price includes a heafty INTEL MCS BASIC manual. . Is the 80C31 you speak of your own or Matra's Tiny BASIC? I've seen their manual! . jeff Msg#: 7663 *GENERAL* 09/20/88 20:37:28 From: MARK LAMPKIN To: JEFF BACHIOCHI (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 7658 (8051 TINY BASIC) Jeff....The basic in our chip is a Heinz 57....starting with a public domain Tiny Basic...We go from there.....Being that the system is used in R.F. Identification equipment,there are many custom commands added to the language.......Mark Msg#: 7699 *GENERAL* 09/21/88 10:39:22 From: JEFF BACHIOCHI To: MARK LAMPKIN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 7663 (8051 TINY BASIC) . Mark, . Does your company do other ID systems beside RF? . jeff Msg#: 7711 *GENERAL* 09/21/88 14:24:02 From: MARK LAMPKIN To: JEFF BACHIOCHI (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 7699 (8051 TINY BASIC) Jeff...We've never been asked,and,is there anything better than R.F.??? It has worked well everytime,,,,Sony T.V. plant,Hitachi T.V. plant,,,,U.S. Army...to name just a few.....Mark Msg#: 7719 *GENERAL* 09/21/88 19:32:04 From: JEFF JENSEN To: MARK LAMPKIN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 7437 (8051 TINY BASIC) A couple of weeks ago I was browsing through the Intel Microcontroller BBS and found what was identified as the 8052 BASIC source code files. I wonder if this is the same code that they are selling for the $100. Again, though, it is for the '52 not the '51. - - Jeff Msg#: 7756 *GENERAL* 09/22/88 19:04:28 From: MARK LAMPKIN To: JEFF JENSEN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 7719 (8051 TINY BASIC) Jeff...That is one and the same...$100 or free,which ever you choose...The fre software doesn't come with as much documentation,though...A close inspection of the source,and a little scapel work could pare it down for a '51.The primary reason,other than full floating point math,etc.,that they use the '52 is the second timer.....Go ahead and try it.....It's only software...20 minute job,piece of cake.........Mark Msg#: 7784 *GENERAL* 09/23/88 12:07:52 From: BOB PADDOCK To: JEFF JENSEN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 7719 (8051 TINY BASIC) Whats the phone number for the Intel Microcontroller BBS? Msg#: 7789 *GENERAL* 09/23/88 17:35:51 From: JEFF JENSEN To: MARK LAMPKIN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 7756 (8051 TINY BASIC) Is "Its only software" in the same class of response as, "The check is in the mail?". I have the code, just haven't sharpened my chain saw to trim it around the edges. - - Jeff Msg#: 7790 *GENERAL* 09/23/88 17:38:09 From: JEFF JENSEN To: BOB PADDOCK (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 7784 (8051 TINY BASIC) The Intel BBS is at 602-961-8167. Have fun! - - Jeff Msg#: 7795 *GENERAL* 09/23/88 18:24:25 From: MARK LAMPKIN To: JEFF JENSEN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 7789 (8051 TINY BASIC) Jeff....amazing perception.The code is quite extensive and does really need some hacking to trim it down.You will find that the lions share,(back when lions were mistaken for tyrranosaurus-rex),is applied to the floating point routines.As far as a tiny basic code goes,there are also some rather large routines for programming Eproms,etc.If you sort thru the command line interpreter and go about the job from the top down,you can take tons of code out of the "basic" to return it to Basic Basic....... ...Mark Msg#: 7809 *GENERAL* 09/24/88 06:28:20 From: BOB MATTESON To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 7402 (8051 TINY BASIC) THANKS FOR THE INFO ON TINY BASIC, STEVE. I DO KNOW THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN THE DIFFERENT FAMILY MEMBERS - GUESS I WAS JUST USING THE NUMBERS A LITTLE "LOOSELY". I AM NOT FAMILIAR WITH MATRA-HARRIS, ARE THEY RELATED TO HARRIS SEMICONDUCTOR ? HOW MAY I REACH THEM ? TO START WITH I JUST NEED A FEW CHIPS TO PROTOTYPE WITH. I WOULD LIKE TO USE THE FULL BLOWN BASIC IN THE 8052AH-BASIC OR THE uMINT 80C52 BUT THE COST IS A LITTLE HIGH. I WAS HOPING TO OFFER KITS FOR UNDER $100. PERHAPS I COULD GET BETTER PRICES IF I ORDER IN QUANTITY. THE 8052AH-BASIC IS ABOUT $30-$40 FROM JAMECO - A LITTLE HIGH. I LOVE READING YOUR CIRCUIT CELLAR! (FOR MANY YEARS NOW) I ALWAYS OPEN BYTE AND LOOK FOR YOUR STUFF FIRST. CIRCUIT CELLAR INK IS GREAT! PUBLICATIONS THAT DEAL WITH SMALL SBC SYSTEMS ARE RARE. I STARTED MY CAREER ON A KIM 1 AND HAVE A SPECIAL PLACE IN MY HEART FOR "TINY" COMPUTERS! THANKS - BOB MATTESON Msg#: 7810 *GENERAL* 09/24/88 06:47:06 From: BOB MATTESON To: MARK LAMPKIN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 7437 (8051 TINY BASIC) MARK .. THANKS FOR YOUR REPLY. I DO HAVE THE INTEL SOURCE CODE AND HAVE GOTTEN A LOT OF INFO OUT OF IT. STEVE CIARCIA MENTIONED MATRA, ALSO. I JUST THOUGHT OF LOOKING IN MY ELECTRONIC INDUSTRIES TELEPHONE DIRECTORY PERHAPS I CAN TRACK THEM DOWN IN THERE. THE 8052 BASIC IS CERTAINLY A LOT MORE POWERFUL, BUT THE CHIPS ARE A LITTLE TOO EXPENSIVE FOR A REALLY LOW END KIT. I AM ALWAYS CURIOUS ABOUT APPLICATIONS USING THE 8051 FAMILY. IS THIS CHIP WIDELY USED IN AUTOMOTIVE ELECTRONICS NOW ? I MANUFACTURE (IN SMALL QUANTITIES) A STEPPER MOTOR CONTROLLER USING THE 8031. THIS UNIT IS CAPABLE OF CONTROLLING 1-3 AXES, HAS DOWNLOADABLE STEP PROFILES, AND COMMUNICATES WITH AN IBM(tm) PC RUNNING A MENU ORIENTED PROGRAM. I HAVE A DYNAMIC RANGE OF 1 TO 10^6 OF STEPS (OR MORE, DEPENDING ON RAM) AND TIMING RESOLUTION OF ~1uSEC FROM 15 HZ TO 20,000 HZ. IF YOU HAVE ANY USE FOR SOMETHING LIKE THIS, LET ME KNOW. THANKS, BOB MATTESON Msg#: 7811 *GENERAL* 09/24/88 06:51:48 From: BOB MATTESON To: JEFF BACHIOCHI (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 7602 (8051 TINY BASIC) JEFF, WHAT KIND OF QUANTITY DISCOUNT DO YOU OFFER? $32 IS STILL HIGH FOR A LOW-END STARTER KIT. BOB MATTESON Msg#: 7843 *GENERAL* 09/25/88 19:31:42 From: MARK LAMPKIN To: BOB MATTESON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 7811 (8051 TINY BASIC) Bob...As a whole,the most common micro under the hood of the car is the Motorola 6805 fanily of products,however,in the machine control end of the business it seems to be the Intel micro's for the low end and Mot,Intel or custom LSI at the brains end for larger,more complex control systems.That stepper system intrigues me....I have a controller chip from Hurst Instuments and some small motors that I've been meaning to start playing with.....There is a large market for a small air damper control system,(i.e .,to control the air dampers on a forced air heating/cooling system).There does not seem to be anything in the market thats inexpensive and can give a mid-range position.Maybe we could talk.......Mark Msg#: 7871 *GENERAL* 09/26/88 17:40:09 From: JEFF JENSEN To: MARK LAMPKIN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 7795 (8051 TINY BASIC) I have been reading up on the BASIC in ROM in the 8052 and it is an impressive piece of work. Although their method of creating an autoboot EPROM is a little obtuse, they seem to have covered many of the considerations (ie. baud rate, program in EPROM selection, what to do with RAM contents at reset, etc.) I'm still trying to come to grips with internal vs. external memory and the dual memory map. It is also a challenge dealing with no I/O addresse , just memory. - - Jeff Msg#: 7889 *GENERAL* 09/28/88 09:19:17 From: STEVE CIARCIA To: BOB MATTESON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 7810 (8051 TINY BASIC) Bob, sounds like your stepper motor controller board would make a great CC INK project. Interested? --steve Msg#: 7892 *GENERAL* 09/28/88 09:31:08 From: STEVE CIARCIA To: BOB MATTESON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 7811 (8051 TINY BASIC) The Micromint 80C52-BASIC chip drops to $18 at 25 quantity (first break). One reason for Micromint's price is that this 80C52 chip it sells is INDUSTRIAL temperature (-40 to +85 C) instead of the commercial NMOS 8052AH-BASIC chips sold by Intel directly or Jameco (0 to 70 C). If you are using an imbedded controller in a car or outside environment, the need for the wider temp chips (besides the lower power CMOS) is easily seen. --Steve Msg#: 7921 *GENERAL* 09/28/88 14:06:55 From: MARK LAMPKIN To: JEFF JENSEN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 7871 (8051 TINY BASIC) Jeff....For myself,it was a challenge coming to grips with separate I/O instructions..I cut my teeth on Motorola cpu's and everythig is memory mapped...as it should be...I/O are just another either read only or write only address....o matter how the cpu handles it,it still "only software.... ...piece of cake,20 minute job.........Mark Msg#: 7924 *GENERAL* 09/28/88 17:19:22 From: JEFF JENSEN To: MARK LAMPKIN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 7921 (8051 TINY BASIC) I started out working with 65xx and 1802, so it really shouldn't be a problem. That was about 10 years ago though, and in the meantime, I've been playing with CP/M and MS-DOS machines. Use it or lose it! On another topic, were you looking for a source on 8073 MPUs? If so, check with Jameco. Their latest catalog is out and they list the 8073 as a close-out item (actually, 30% of the catalog line items are listed as close-out... are they narrowing their product line) for $6.95 each. They are also closing out on some other early gems. 1802, 2650, 3870 (remember the F8?), several of the 65xx family including the 6510. Commodore owners take note, they are clearing out most of the VIC and C64 spare parts. Stock up now or scramble for them later. - - Jeff Msg#: 7935 *GENERAL* 09/29/88 14:22:40 From: JEFF BACHIOCHI To: MARK LAMPKIN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 7843 (8051 TINY BASIC) . Mark, . I am not a salesperson, so give MICROMINT a call at 203-871-6170 and get discount and OEM pricing! I like the ease of development for BASIC and machine-code on the 52, CMOS is just an added benefit. . jeff Msg#: 7937 *GENERAL* 09/29/88 14:39:29 From: JEFF BACHIOCHI To: JEFF JENSEN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 7871 (8051 TINY BASIC) . Jeff, . The processor's BASIC interpreter and machine language run from READ only memory (CODE sometimes called PROGRAM) controled by the *PSEN line. Basic code, RAM and I/O run from READ/WRITE memory (DATA) controlled by the *RD and *WR lines. If the two lines (*PSEN and *RD) are ANDed you get a combined space where any access is to the same 64K space. If the lines are separated, you now have 2 64K spaces, 1 READ only for CODE and 1 RD/WR for DATA. There are advantages and disadvantages for each configuration. Let me know if I can be of any assistance! . jeff Msg#: 7941 *GENERAL* 09/30/88 10:27:17 From: JEFF JENSEN To: JEFF BACHIOCHI (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 7937 (8051 TINY BASIC) Jeff, I have another question concerning the 8052. Does it also contain a small amount of internal RAM memory? I should have specified the BASIC version of the device for this question--I know the 8032 does. I assume (there's a mistake if there ever was ;-) ) that any internal RAM is used by the BASIC interpreter for its own purposes. - - Jeff Msg#: 7949 *GENERAL* 09/30/88 13:46:11 From: RON WILSON To: JEFF BACHIOCHI (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 7937 (8051 TINY BASIC) Why not have a selective combining? There could be benifit from partially overlapping the 2 address spaces. Msg#: 7951 *GENERAL* 09/30/88 14:10:36 From: JEFF BACHIOCHI To: JEFF JENSEN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 7941 (8051 TINY BASIC) . Jeff, . Yes, the 8052 has the same registers as the 8032. Registers 18H-21H are reserved for the user. 4DH-0FFH is stack space and user space Upon power-up 4DH is the bottom of stack (it grows up) changing the value of register 3EH to something above this will give you some user space, but will reduce the stack height! . In addition 0-1FFH of external RAM are also allocated to BASIC. Thus your BASIC starts at location 200H. . Using 8K block chip selects and the *PSEN or *RD signal will give full control over the use of each 8K block. You could do some interesting things. . jeff Msg#: 7967 *GENERAL* 10/03/88 15:22:21 From: JEFF JENSEN To: JEFF BACHIOCHI (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 7951 (8051 TINY BASIC) I haven't fully digested the BCC-52 manual, but it appears that the designer (you?) allowed for many of the "interesting things" you mentioned, as far as addressing and memory types (RAM, EPROM) on the BCC-52 board. - - Jeff Msg#: 7986 *GENERAL* 10/03/88 19:45:30 From: ALEXANDER SCHNEIDER To: JEFF JENSEN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 7924 (8051 TINY BASIC) Isn't the 1802 the all static chip (registers, etc.) whose clock you could stop and then come back a week later, start the clock, and it goes like nothing happenned? Alex Msg#: 8001 *GENERAL* 10/04/88 02:43:34 From: JASON FARQUE' To: ALEXANDER SCHNEIDER (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 7986 (8051 TINY BASIC) . Yes, the 1802 had a halt mode that stopped the little sucker dead in it's tracks... You could also run it at agonizingly slow clock speeds.. You remember those old Budweiser cans with the horridly ugly "candle-like" tops on them? You plugged them in and they flickered back and forth? (Man, I loved those things... Lava lamps too...) That's about the oscillator speed of some of the projects that I've been a party of. (And I ain't necessarily BRAGGIN') . . . Jason Farque' . . Msg#: 8008 *GENERAL* 10/04/88 06:37:00 From: BOB MATTESON To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 7889 (8051 TINY BASIC) Yes, I am interested. Currently, the controller provides a large part of my commercial income and is proprietary, but perhaps we could work out a subset of it for a CC INK project. I think it is a good example of the great things one can do with this little chip. I will put together some information and send it to you. The $18 for 25 units of your 80C52 sounds pretty good. Considering the industrial temp range and low-power CMOS, it's hard to beat! Bob Matteson Msg#: 8010 *GENERAL* 10/04/88 06:56:56 From: BOB MATTESON To: MARK LAMPKIN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 7843 (8051 TINY BASIC) Mark, give me your mailing address and I will put together some info on my stepper controller and send it to you. In my own house, it has occurred to me that much better temp. control could be achieved by controlling the dampers; especially during the changeover from heating to cooling periods. Currently, my income is derived from low volume, high prices. I would welcome the opportunity to go with some volume production (with some help from someone experienced in such matters). Bob Matteson Nuvo Technical Services 3448 Yellowstone Drive Ann Arbor, MI 48105 Msg#: 8020 *GENERAL* 10/04/88 12:08:31 From: BOB PADDOCK To: ALEXANDER SCHNEIDER (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 7986 (8051 TINY BASIC) The 180x family of CPUs is one of the few processors that you can take the clock all the way down to DC. Msg#: 8045 *GENERAL* 10/04/88 18:38:29 From: JEFF JENSEN To: ALEXANDER SCHNEIDER (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 7986 (8051 TINY BASIC) You got the answer on the 180x line of processors. The 650x will also run at slightly above DC clock rates. - - Jeff Msg#: 8076 *GENERAL* 10/05/88 10:48:48 From: RON WILSON To: JEFF JENSEN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 8045 (8051 TINY BASIC) To the best of my knowledge, only the CMOS versions of the 650x's can operate with a slow clock speed (ie: "human speed") Msg#: 8086 *GENERAL* 10/05/88 18:22:22 From: ALEXANDER SCHNEIDER To: JASON FARQUE' (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 8001 (8051 TINY BASIC) What did you use them for at those slow speeds? Alex Msg#: 8088 *GENERAL* 10/05/88 18:24:33 From: ALEXANDER SCHNEIDER To: JEFF JENSEN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 8045 (8051 TINY BASIC) Can you completely remove the clock on a 6502? Alex Msg#: 8096 *GENERAL* 10/05/88 18:49:33 From: JEFF JENSEN To: ALEXANDER SCHNEIDER (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 8088 (8051 TINY BASIC) In an Ohio Scientific C24P (6502) I replaced the stock capacitor and resistor on the 555 generating system clock, with a larger cap and a potentiometer. With that mod I ran it down to around 10-100 Hz and it continued (slowly) to clunk along. This was before the CMOS version, circa 1980. I guess I never went all the way to DC and then back, but it did run at a very low clock speed successfully. - - Jeff Msg#: 8124 *GENERAL* 10/06/88 07:45:14 From: JIM NELSON To: ALEXANDER SCHNEIDER (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 8086 (8051 TINY BASIC) The usual reason for slowing or stopping a micro's clock is to save power. In fully static CMOS designs, power consumption is a linear, monotonically increasing function of frequency. If you set things up so that the clock runs at predictable intervals in bursts, you've got a micro that wakes up during those intervals, but which otherwise doesn't use much more than a few micro or nanowatts of power, ( due to leakage currents). This is very crucial in battery powered unattended instrumentation. The Motorola 6805 series micros and some others have this feature built in. The NMOS series 650x microprocessors are designed with NMOS pass transistor logic, which resembles in effect the organized gating and isolation of charge packets from one leaky capacitor to the next around and about the chips thin surface. As in a DRAM the information content, and thus the state of the micro, decays as a function of time. Slow down too far and the NMOS micro will literally forget what it was doing. The Rockwell spec on minimum clock speed for their NMOS 6502's is 100 KHz. I don't know why Jeff Jensen was able to slow the clock on his OSI system so much. There's no point to it in NMOS designs, because the power consumed by NMOS stuff isn't much affected by frequency. Msg#: 8134 *GENERAL* 10/06/88 09:58:03 From: RON WILSON To: JEFF JENSEN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 8096 (8051 TINY BASIC) That's interesting: When I was experimenting with using multiple 6502's on a single shared bus (by using the halt input on the 6502), I found that the longest any of the processors could be halted was .9 ms - I wasn't removing the clock, just turning on the halt input. If one was halted too long, it "forgot" the contents of its registers (just like not refreshing DRAM frequently enough). Msg#: 8135 *GENERAL* 10/06/88 10:03:19 From: RON WILSON To: JIM NELSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 8124 (8051 TINY BASIC) Another reason for slowing down the clock rate: it makes it easier to debug the hardware (sometimes even the software). However, in these days of low cost ICE's and truely usable software trace packages, slowing down is less needed and more of a hassle. Msg#: 8144 *GENERAL* 10/06/88 14:04:28 From: JEFF JENSEN To: RON WILSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 8134 (8051 TINY BASIC) If I get a chance, I'll dig out a 6502 and see how slow it can go. Since the ones you were playing with got forgetful at just under a second of halt time, that is about 8.5 ms longer than I cranked mine to. Interesting question. - - Jeff Msg#: 8155 *GENERAL* 10/06/88 21:25:32 From: MARK LAMPKIN To: ALEXANDER SCHNEIDER (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 7986 (8051 TINY BASIC) Alex......The 1802 was all static.It had some amazing attributes for it's time....First,it had 16 sixteen bit register,internally,any of which could be the program counter or an accumulator...It also had an "Idle" command to put the processor to sleep until it recieved an external interrupt..... something the newest CMOS processors are showing up with,but this was circa 1976(?).....I personally think it is still quite a processor...Mark Msg#: 8156 *GENERAL* 10/06/88 21:30:24 From: MARK LAMPKIN To: BOB MATTESON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 8010 (8051 TINY BASIC) Bob.....I can't believe you live in A squared.....I'm just around the corner from you......Escort Memory Systems...1467 Apple Orchard ....Walled Lake,Mi....(or Walledtucky as some call it)...I'm in you neck of the woods quite often....Maybe lunch or something....Give me a call...Office..669-616 0 Home...669-4260.....Car...670-8398........Mark Msg#: 8181 *GENERAL* 10/07/88 08:59:56 From: RON WILSON To: JEFF JENSEN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 8144 (8051 TINY BASIC) I said .9 MS (.0009 sec - 1.1 KHz clock speed) . -- Msg#: 8203 *GENERAL* 10/07/88 18:10:14 From: ALEXANDER SCHNEIDER To: JEFF JENSEN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 8096 (8051 TINY BASIC) I suppose the only reason you can't run normal CPU's down to DC is that the registers etc. are of the dynamic RAM type and must be refreshed regularly, so if you slow it down too much, the registers evaporate. Evidently on the 1802, and I suppose on the 6502 also, the machine state is held in static RAM. Alex Msg#: 8206 *GENERAL* 10/07/88 18:18:02 From: ALEXANDER SCHNEIDER To: MARK LAMPKIN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 8155 (8051 TINY BASIC) Wow, 256 bits of register in 1976? And this was a single chip? Alex Msg#: 8209 *GENERAL* 10/07/88 18:24:38 From: ALEXANDER SCHNEIDER To: RON WILSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 8134 (8051 TINY BASIC) Multiprocessing with 6502's? Hmmm, weird ideas everywhere. Alex Msg#: 8214 *GENERAL* 10/07/88 20:33:48 From: JEFF JENSEN To: ALEXANDER SCHNEIDER (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 8203 (8051 TINY BASIC) There is some discussion about the 6502 non-CMOS versions running down below 100KHZ. A message here called out specs from Rockwell on the 6502 as requiring a minimum clock of 100KHZ. Mostek also made the unit, but I have not yet found any specs on that chip. I need to find out if the OSI I played with before can run at a slower clock than that, and what manufacturer and process it was made by. - - Jeff Msg#: 8216 *GENERAL* 10/07/88 21:06:02 From: MARK LAMPKIN To: ALEXANDER SCHNEIDER (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 8206 (8051 TINY BASIC) Alex...The 1802 was a push develpment by RCA...The military needed,(and the space program),a processor that was "VERY" low power for satellites,mis sles,etc....As I recollect,the systems used in most of the communication satellites,for attitude control,were running at a whopping 100khz clock....In the systems I have designed with the 1802,approximately 20 or 25,only one or two had a need for external ram...It's a lot easier to battery back the micro only,than just backing up the ram....Good coding practices can get you by with 16 sixteen bit'rs,or for that matter,32 eight bit'rs....Mark Msg#: 8271 *GENERAL* 10/09/88 11:54:57 From: ALEXANDER SCHNEIDER To: MARK LAMPKIN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 8216 (8051 TINY BASIC) And the 1802 was CMOS, so there was a use to drop the clock that low? Did any of your systems ever just take away the clock for periods of time? Alex Msg#: 8375 *GENERAL* 10/11/88 13:05:15 From: RON WILSON To: ALEXANDER SCHNEIDER (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 8209 (8051 TINY BASIC) The 6502 is an excellent choice for dedicated game machines (though I did use a 68008 for graphics). In fact, many arcade game makers still use the 6502 (along with other processors such as 68008) in their machines. Msg#: 8376 *GENERAL* 10/11/88 13:07:40 From: RON WILSON To: MARK LAMPKIN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 8216 (8051 TINY BASIC) That explains why I it was was easier for me to get mil spec units than comercial spec units (though the mil spec units still cost more) Msg#: 8378 *GENERAL* 10/11/88 13:18:41 From: RON WILSON To: ALEXANDER SCHNEIDER (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 8203 (8051 TINY BASIC) Except for the CMOS 6502, I don't know of any 6502's that are static. Msg#: 8392 *GENERAL* 10/11/88 22:02:04 From: MARK LAMPKIN To: ALEXANDER SCHNEIDER (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 8271 (8051 TINY BASIC) Alex....One of the systems designed was a remote data aquisition system.It was powered by a small battery of 2 volt wet cells.The recharge was with solar cells.The system was accessed through a RS422 link.The recieve data triggered a one-shot with an approximate 5 second time-out.The one-shot triggerred an interrupt on the 1802 which brought it out of the "halt",(sleep),mode.It did it's A/D conversions,linearized the data and then transmitted it to the host system,after that it executed the halt command and went to sleep till the next host inquiry....That was back in 1976.....As far as I know,there are still a few hundred in service with the gas company....Mark... Msg#: 8393 *GENERAL* 10/11/88 22:03:31 From: MARK LAMPKIN To: RON WILSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 8376 (8051 TINY BASIC) Ron...The mil spec units could also run at a Vdd of 10 volts....And fast...Mark Msg#: 8416 *GENERAL* 10/12/88 11:15:08 From: RON WILSON To: MARK LAMPKIN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 8393 (8051 TINY BASIC) Right. I was running a totally CMOS machine off of 9 volt batteries. Very handy for remote data collection and control monitoring. Msg#: 8434 *GENERAL* 10/12/88 14:37:16 From: JASON FARQUE' To: ALEXANDER SCHNEIDER (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 8086 (8051 TINY BASIC) . We've used the slowed clock speeds of processors for slow oil-field applications... The customer wants it slow, we'll build it slow.. How SLOW can you go? . . Msg#: 8435 *GENERAL* 10/12/88 14:39:30 From: JASON FARQUE' To: JIM NELSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 8124 (8051 TINY BASIC) . Jim. . . This is what we ran out clock speeds down to nothing for. We has CMOS chips in oil field applications that were battery driven and unattended. They were logging data (naturally), and we wanted them reliable, but speed was not a concern. Hence the snail's pace of the clock... . . . Msg#: 8455 *GENERAL* 10/12/88 18:44:02 From: ALEXANDER SCHNEIDER To: RON WILSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 8375 (8051 TINY BASIC) But multiple 6502's on one bus? Isn't the 6502 a bit hard to program and slow for graphics-intensive work? Alex Msg#: 8457 *GENERAL* 10/12/88 18:45:50 From: ALEXANDER SCHNEIDER To: MARK LAMPKIN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 8392 (8051 TINY BASIC) What were the clock frequency and physical size of this package? Alex Msg#: 8463 *GENERAL* 10/12/88 21:30:42 From: MARK LAMPKIN To: ALEXANDER SCHNEIDER (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 8457 (8051 TINY BASIC) The clock was derivd from a 307.2Khz ceramic oscillator...Simple and CHEAP...obviously a baud rate multiple...Mark Msg#: 8501 *GENERAL* 10/13/88 11:05:13 From: RON WILSON To: ALEXANDER SCHNEIDER (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 8455 (8051 TINY BASIC) The arcade game "Tempest" uses the 6502. (so do the Atari 2600, 5200, and 7800) These machines use custom LSI for handling graphics. Strangely enough, Motarola's 6809 is more like the 6502 than it is the 6800. And even the 68000's design was influenced by the 6502 (though I doubt any one at Motorola would admit that). Msg#: 8510 *GENERAL* 10/13/88 14:23:32 From: NEIL CHERRY To: RON WILSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 8501 (8051 TINY BASIC) The 6809 was influenced by the 6502 ???? I think the 6809 is definitely influenced by the 6800 line of cpu's. And as for the 68K line up I still don`t see the influence, or maybe or that relocatable code has just made me blind. (Oh yea please I am not a CPU expert just an old time hacker). NJC Msg#: 8527 *GENERAL* 10/13/88 20:41:47 From: JACK PERGAL To: MARK LAMPKIN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 8463 (8051 TINY BASIC) I think the 6502 was a spinoff of the 6800. A group of engineers left Motorola and started a company with the 6502 as their major product. . Jack Msg#: 8540 *GENERAL* 10/14/88 07:34:23 From: BOB PADDOCK To: JACK PERGAL (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 8527 (8051 TINY BASIC) If my anincaint history is correct, the people who left Motorla had the 6500 as there first product, but Motorla promptly sued and put an end to it because it was 'to much like the 6800'. So they tryed again with the 6501, which I beleive required a external 2 phas osc, and some other support chips, they finaly got every thing in the the one 6502 to chip, and the rest you probably already know...... Any one out there ever seen an Apple-I (Didn't you ever wonder why it was the Apple-II)? Msg#: 8551 *GENERAL* 10/14/88 09:12:15 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: BOB PADDOCK (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 8540 (8051 TINY BASIC) I have an ad for an Apple I. I've never seen one in the flesh, though. (I was an Apple freak for years before graduating to bigger and better things. You wouldn't believe how hacked up my ][+ is.) Msg#: 8568 *GENERAL* 10/14/88 13:55:01 From: RON WILSON To: NEIL CHERRY (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 8510 (8051 TINY BASIC) Well..... When I first started programming the 6809, I was able to port assembly code from the 6502 with only trivial changes; code from the 6800 required more work. I've also code for the 68000 and 68008; many of the tricks I used on both the 6809 and the 6502 work just great on the 68000. (Of course the 68000's greater orthoganality and a larger set of registers makes most of those "old time" hacks unnecessary) Msg#: 8569 *GENERAL* 10/14/88 13:55:31 From: RON WILSON To: JACK PERGAL (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 8527 (8051 TINY BASIC) It was and they did Msg#: 8570 *GENERAL* 10/14/88 13:58:42 From: RON WILSON To: BOB PADDOCK (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 8540 (8051 TINY BASIC) I own an Apple I. Only 200 were ever made. To the best of my knowledge, Apple has regained possession of around 180 or 190 of them; thus making the others (including mine) collector's items of no small value. (I was once offered $5000 for mine......) Msg#: 8595 *GENERAL* 10/14/88 22:03:53 From: MARK LAMPKIN To: JACK PERGAL (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 8527 (8051 TINY BASIC) jack....The 6502 was indeed a spinoff of the 6800 family....A group of the engineers had a parting of the ways with Motorola,combination politics and differrence of opinion on the next step in the product family....Mark Msg#: 8625 *GENERAL* 10/15/88 19:26:17 From: ALEXANDER SCHNEIDER To: MARK LAMPKIN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 8463 (8051 TINY BASIC) Sometimes I feel like designing a little thing like that, compact, simple, cheap, but useful, but can't find a use for one! Alex Msg#: 8626 *GENERAL* 10/15/88 19:28:55 From: ALEXANDER SCHNEIDER To: RON WILSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 8501 (8051 TINY BASIC) Tempest, the vector traced one? Hmm, I'd expect the home game systems to use one, but not a larger, more complex arcade game. By the way, do you (or anybody else, for that matter) know of any Circuit Cellar-type projects which have attempted non-raster graphics (such as the old GCE Vectrex, but for experimenting?). Alex Msg#: 8627 *GENERAL* 10/15/88 19:31:06 From: ALEXANDER SCHNEIDER To: RON WILSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 8570 (8051 TINY BASIC) Hey, that isn't supposed to happen in computers! Why would Apple want them? Alex Msg#: 8631 *GENERAL* 10/15/88 22:34:53 From: MARK LAMPKIN To: ALEXANDER SCHNEIDER (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 8625 (8051 TINY BASIC) Alex...I've found all kinds of uses....Security on my property...I have a "big" yard....the garden...energy management...even the grocery list and "my" recipe files.....these are only a very few idea's....one other one......my work room,(digital house of horrors), has all of my test instuments talking to each other.......Mark Msg#: 8633 *GENERAL* 10/16/88 03:02:37 From: ERIC BOHLMAN To: BOB PADDOCK (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 8540 (8051 TINY BASIC) I remember seeing an Apple 1 board demonstrated about 12 years ago at a computer club meeting (this was in the Midwest, not CA!). Msg#: 8641 *GENERAL* 10/16/88 12:13:17 From: STEVE CIARCIA To: ALEXANDER SCHNEIDER (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 8626 (8051 TINY BASIC) Circuit Cellar vol I has a really neat vector graphics generator that can be used to draw pictures on a vector display (ie. like a scope). I believe it was the first article I ever wrote for BYTE. --Steve Msg#: 8664 *GENERAL* 10/16/88 17:24:44 From: JIM NELSON To: MARK LAMPKIN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 8216 (8051 TINY BASIC) A lot of folks coded the 1802 in Forth. I've designed a lot of embedded controllers with Forth; never with the 1802 family, although Frank Thorley, the old local RCA rep, often tried to sell us on it. By the way, I'm based in Ypsilanti, somewhat southwest of you. Regards, Jim Msg#: 8666 *GENERAL* 10/16/88 17:26:38 From: JIM NELSON To: ALEXANDER SCHNEIDER (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 8455 (8051 TINY BASIC) Several years ago Rockwell released specs on a dual cpu chip named the R65C00/21 and its romless equivalent R65C29. On this chip, the two functionally independant cpus were clocked 180 degrees out of phase so they could share memory, memory mapped I/O, subroutines, etc. Unfortunately Rockwell canceled the product. For its time, the 6502 was more powerful than its competition. It had indexed, indirect, indirect indexed, and indexed indirect addressing modes on the smallest cheapest piece of smart silica available at its introduction. It's not as powerful as the 68000, but only ten years have passed since it got off the ground with people sitting around in computer clubs hacking up computers with four BIG kilobytes of RAM and paper tape for storage and I/O. Msg#: 8674 *GENERAL* 10/16/88 21:07:29 From: MARK LAMPKIN To: JIM NELSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 8664 (8051 TINY BASIC) Jim.....I had Frank call on me when I was with Fisher Controls....Interesti ng gentleman.....Give me a call ......Office (313)669-6160....Mark Msg#: 8692 *GENERAL* 10/17/88 07:52:25 From: BOB PADDOCK To: RON WILSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 8570 (8051 TINY BASIC) Tell us about it, please.... What were/are it's capabilitys? Why is Apple trying to get them all back? Msg#: 8721 *GENERAL* 10/17/88 15:19:13 From: RON WILSON To: BOB PADDOCK (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 8692 (8051 TINY BASIC) Apple I: No graphics, 8K of RAM, 2K of ROM, Integer BASIC loaded from tape (same I BASIC that ran (still runs) on the Apple II (even the graphics commands were there - just that the hardware didn't support graphics - it acted like a "stupid" glass tty). No game controlers; no speaker; just keyboard port, cassette port, and video output. . As for why Apple "reposessed" most of the machines: I haven't the slightest clue - I can't even find out if the reports are true. Msg#: 8856 *GENERAL* 10/19/88 17:52:02 From: ALEXANDER SCHNEIDER To: MARK LAMPKIN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 8631 (8051 TINY BASIC) Ahh, security, what types of (cheap) useful sensors do you see available? Alex Msg#: 8857 *GENERAL* 10/19/88 17:52:37 From: ALEXANDER SCHNEIDER To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 8641 (8051 TINY BASIC) That's the book compendium of CC articles? I'll look for it. Alex Msg#: 8914 *GENERAL* 10/21/88 08:14:40 From: MARK LAMPKIN To: ALEXANDER SCHNEIDER (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 8856 (8051 TINY BASIC) Alex....Right now I'm in the process of a home moving party....but,I'm working on a scannig infrared detector for the yard....I'll kep you posted as to the progress of this development....Mark Msg#: 8940 *GENERAL* 10/21/88 20:34:43 From: ALEXANDER SCHNEIDER To: MARK LAMPKIN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 8914 (8051 TINY BASIC) Ooh, scanning. Pyroelectric, right? How about combining a lot of technologies and using a scanning IR detector to signal a microprocessor to steer (via stepper motors, of course) some sort of weapon mount? We might even program in ballistic data! alex Msg#: 8958 *GENERAL* 10/22/88 07:58:21 From: MARK LAMPKIN To: ALEXANDER SCHNEIDER (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 8940 (8051 TINY BASIC) Alex...I don't want to kill the neighbors cat.....Just spot an intruder.... ....However there are a few exotic possibilities....Mark Msg#: 9120 *GENERAL* 10/25/88 03:34:39 From: GREG BELL To: MARK LAMPKIN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 8914 (8051 TINY BASIC) An infrared scanner? Do you mean a passive IR intrusion detector? I've been fooling with a few of the sensors from Amperex... which sensor are you using? What kind of range are you able to get? Give me details, if you could! GBell Msg#: 9190 *GENERAL* 10/26/88 06:20:16 From: MARK LAMPKIN To: GREG BELL (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 9120 (8051 TINY BASIC) Greg....I'm talking about a motor driven,small parabolic reflector with an IR detector at the focal point....The reflector is driven in a scanning X-Y ordinate motin and an IR picture is assenbled from the passive(active) emmisions in it's view....The next scan through the next picture is compaired to the first and motion can be interolated from change of signal....maybe a little far fetched,but a neat toy...Mark Reply has been deleted Msg#: 7387 *GENERAL* 09/12/88 22:55:10 From: VINCENT BONO To: ALL Subj: SCSI DOES ANYONE OUT THERE KNOW IF AN APPLE SCSI BOARD (//e) WILL ACCEPT HARD DRIVES MADE FOR IBM SCSI? THE MAC ONES ARE A LOT MORE EXPENSIVE. ALSO, IS THERE ANY SPECIAL SOFTWARE THAT WILL BE NEEDED OR CAN I JUST USE PRODOS? THANX, VIN Msg#: 7399 *GENERAL* 09/13/88 09:07:48 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: VINCENT BONO (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 7387 (SCSI) Theoretically, a SCSI hard drive will work on any computer that sports a true SCSI interface, regardless of make. I think the only reason a drive would be billed as working on an IBM is because it comes with a SCSI adapter that plugs into the bus. If you already have the interface, the drive can be used anywhere. The software is another issue, though. The SCSI hardware spec is well-defined and is quite standard across the board. The SCSI software spec is much looser and manufacturers tend to enhance their products with new or unique command extensions. As a result, often times the software to support the drive must be written specifically for that drive. I don't know what kind of SCSI support ProDOS has built in, but chances are you'd need a custom driver for whatever drive you select. It's been a few years since I did anything serious with the Apple. Msg#: 7391 *GENERAL* 09/13/88 00:52:27 From: DALE NASSAR To: ALL Subj: CURRENT SOURCE I need to drive a 4-ohm load (two parallel 8-ohm speakers) one end of the load is to be connected to a square wave oscillating at about 25 Hz. (50% DC) between 1.2v and 14v derived fron an electroniclly driven 350 voltage regulator. The other end must be held at a constant 7 volts. Now for the question, Can I use a common three-terminal regulator for this? I haven't tried it yet but I am concerned about the regulators being able to sink current as needed in this situation. --Dale Msg#: 7392 *GENERAL* 09/13/88 01:53:16 From: SIMON SABATO To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: CAR COMPUTER I have been considering making a Home Control System. Not because I need it, but because I want to make it. Before doing this ( it's a big job ) I decided to put a computer in my car. My question is on the operation of the 16 x 2 Alphanumeric LCD display (as in your IC tester). How is it operated. Your article didn't go very deep into this. Is it "intelligent" (do you just feed it the ASCII) or do you have to constantly refresh the display. Do you send in ASCII or in dot addressable graphics? Thanks, Simon Sabato Reply has been deleted Msg#: 7395 *GENERAL* 09/13/88 07:45:40 From: DOUGLAS MACE To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: 8051 PROJECT Steve, How can I obtain a copy of the complete DDT-51 Project as it appeared in BYTE Mag? I am not a subscriber and interested in reading the article. Thanks in advance! Doug C. Mace,Reading, PA Msg#: 7401 *GENERAL* 09/13/88 09:37:28 From: STEVE CIARCIA To: DOUGLAS MACE (Rcvd) Subj: DDT-51 I guess you'll just have to pray a lot :-) Seriously, there is no DDT-51 kit but we are planning some followup stuff in Circuit Cellar INK. It is also possible that we will design a new DDT-51 that can be manufactured but, it also will be in INK. --Steve Msg#: 7449 *GENERAL* 09/14/88 11:26:19 From: DOUGLAS MACE To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 7401 (DDT-51) Steve, I am sorry, you misunderstood me. I am not after a kit at this time. Would like a reprint of the DDT-51(8031 I think) Development system project, written by yourself, as it appeared in BYTE Mag. What is the Issue Date of the Mag.article? Thanks in Advance! Doug C. Mace Msg#: 7470 *GENERAL* 09/15/88 08:44:18 From: STEVE CIARCIA To: DOUGLAS MACE (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 7449 (DDT-51) While some articles are indeed reprinted and available, the DDT-51 is not. Short of running it all through a copier, which you could easily do with a friend's copy, all I can suggest is that you contact BYTE directly and pick up a couple back issues. The issues are Aug-Sept '88. The latter should still be on the news stands. --Steve Reply has been deleted Msg#: 7412 *GENERAL* 09/13/88 12:09:46 From: PETER SANDERS To: ED NISLEY (Rcvd) Subj: VIDEO CONTROL Hello Steve. 13/9/88 Thank you for all the great articles in your Byte column. Your articles, and solutions to other peoples problems has prompted me to request your advice. I have assumed questions are allowed on the CCBBS, as this question relates also to an idea. The company I work for has a need to control output to multiple video displays. CGA displays are preferred. I know that the IBM PCs and clones etc can normally support up to two (different) displays. However I need to control a minimum of 3, and maybe as many as 8. This is in conjunction with the pc's normal operator display. Of the displays, only one needs to be accessed (and updated) at a time. The possibility of using terminals has been discussed, and so far proves to be the only solution. What I would like to be able to do is as follows: . retain a standard pc display for the pc itself, PLUS . use 3 or more additional CGA cards within a single pc . select one CGA card . update the screen . deselect the screen . wait for input from the keyboard or comms . repeat the above process Effectively what this means is - by using Microsoft QB4 and Hammerly Computer Services PRO-BAS routines, write the update data to a dynamic array, select a display, do a block move to the standard screen ram, unselect a display, perform more data updates in dynamic arrays and repeat the process as needed, to the display desired. As you probably realize, each display has to maintain the last display screen (sent to that display) until the next update. My prefered solution would be to use standard CGA cards modified to suit. The next solution would be to have a card with multiple blocks of 'screen ram' each with their own video output. The last solution would be terminals. Your TERMITE video terminal is a serious contender for the last solution. I hope you can be of assistance, thank you in advance for any advice you can provide. Regards PETER SANDERS ps. If you haven't heard of the PRO-BAS routines mentioned, I recommend them. They are a superb addtion to QUICKBasic. Contact Wayne Hammerly on (301) 953-2191. Msg#: 7447 *GENERAL* 09/14/88 10:33:50 From: STEVE CIARCIA To: PETER SANDERS (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 7412 (VIDEO CONTROL) I've forwarded your letter to Ed Nisley, our resident PC guru. While I could offer a suggestion, he can give you solutions. BTW, I'm no longer in BYTE after December. You'll have to start reading Circuit Cellar INK if you want the same quality material. --Steve Msg#: 7562 *GENERAL* 09/18/88 19:35:34 From: PETER SANDERS To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 7447 (VIDEO CONTROL) Thank you for you assistance. I forget to mention in my last message, that I'm calling your BBS from Perth In WESTERN AUSTRALIA. I assume I should call back in the near future for somne info from your pc guru\F}v:W Q regards peter sanders Msg#: 7592 *GENERAL* 09/19/88 09:26:59 From: STEVE CIARCIA To: PETER SANDERS (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 7562 (VIDEO CONTROL) Call again, anytime. There are a few others on here from Australia, too. --Steve Msg#: 7637 *GENERAL* 09/19/88 22:02:09 From: ED NISLEY To: PETER SANDERS (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 7412 (VIDEO CONTROL) Well, it can be done... but you've got to really WANT to do it because the whole thing is a little grisly... First of all, you'll need an expander chassis to hold all those CGA cards. I'd strongly suggest that you use a commercial box rather than trying to roll your own. Next, you'll need to hack the cards to allow you to selectively enable them under program control. Given the variety of cards available nowadays, there's no way to be too specific about this, but here's how it would work on the original CGA: Essentially, you have to add a pair of gates to the memory and I/O address decoders, each with one input coming from the original logic and the other from an enable signal. When the enable is inactive, the card simply doesn't respond. When it's active, you get normal responses. It's your responsibility to make CERTAIN that only one card is enabled at a time, because two cards responding to the same memory or I/O read will give garbage on the bus. Current clone cards probably use LSI decoders, so you may have some problems figuring out what to change. It may not be possible to modify some cards; they may have everything buried inside one undocumented LSI chip. Failing all else, you can add the enable gates to the memory and I/O control lines (-IOR, -IOW, -MEMR, -MEMW) so that the decoding proceeds normally but the actual read and write signals are blocked. This will work with any card, but may mess up the signal timing a little. You may need 74F or 74S gates instead of 74LS; there's no way to tell without some experimenting. The enables can come from an LS138 decoder "piggybacked" on a parallel port card, with outputs driving the new CGA enable gates. One of the CGAs will be selected by the data pattern written by the BIOS power-on tests, so that's the default CGA display during booting. After that, you can use switch them around as needed. You may need two parallel port cards, one in the base unit and the other in the expansion unit, but that shouldn't be a problem -- I don't think running enable wires between the units is a good idea. Selecting cards is then simply a matter of writing the appropriate binary value to the parallel port; if you've put the decoder on the low order 3 bits you can select the cards by number. You could use the port bits directly, but then you'd be unable to GUARANTEE that only one card was enabled at once; the BIOS would probably enable a few of them during the power-on tests long before your code gets control. You should probably include a Monochrome Display/Printer Adapter (or a Hercules clone) to act as the "normal" PC display for the system unit. This won't give you CGA graphics, but output directed to the MDA will always show up regardless of how scrambled your code gets! Remember that the CGA displays can't be too far away from the cards; the TTL video signals were not designed for long cables. You may need low-capacitance wires or even commercial "boosters" if you're planning to wire up a building with remote displays. Make a few tests with a standard CGA before you commit to anything expensive. Sounds like fun! Msg#: 7706 *GENERAL* 09/21/88 13:27:03 From: RON WILSON To: PETER SANDERS (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 7412 (VIDEO CONTROL) Considering the time involved in modifying CGA (or other) display adaptors, combined with the expense of a reliable bus expansion box, It may be more cost effective to use low cost RS-232 terminals. Good luck, whatever you do. Msg#: 7758 *GENERAL* 09/22/88 19:21:51 From: PETER SANDERS To: ED NISLEY (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 7637 (VIDEO CONTROL) Thank you Ed for your assistance. I haven't read the full text of your message at thistime as I am on line from W/Australia. However when I have read it and tried it out I will get back to you. Regards Peter Msg#: 7760 *GENERAL* 09/22/88 19:25:48 From: PETER SANDERS To: RON WILSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 7706 (VIDEO CONTROL) Thank you foryour comment. I appreciate your advice, but due to the possibility of making it work, and if so being able to do block moves of memory for screen access, it would be a lot faster. Anyway I'llgive it a go. You may see a message posted in the future, advising my success (or Failure, hope not) regards peter Msg#: 7428 *GENERAL* 09/13/88 21:14:52 From: THOMAS BARNETT To: JEFF JENSEN (Rcvd) Subj: 8052 PROJECT Jeff, where do we stand? How about an idea on which direction next. We need to exchange schematics so a common goal can be reached. Let me know. -Thomas- Msg#: 7455 *GENERAL* 09/14/88 18:58:19 From: JEFF JENSEN To: THOMAS BARNETT (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 7428 (8052 PROJECT) Thomas, are we still standing? I feel like I've been run over by a herd of elephants. Or bureaucrats. Work has kept me occupied for the last week or two, so progress is pretty slim. I am still waiting on the BASIC-52 manual from Micromint. If Murphy holds true to form, I'll get a note back saying the price has gone up, please remit $$$. Anyway, the schematic I used is the same one Steve C. used for the first part of the DDT-51 article. Instead of an 8031, I used and 8052, but the addresses for RAM, EPROM and I/O are the same. The diagram shows an expandable system, starting with a bare-bones controller and going up to a system with a pair of 8255s and address decoding. The full-blown system is the one I wired, although the 8255s are not installed yet. I/O addresses are as listed on the diagram. Maybe the next step is to identify blocks of I/O addresses for specific usage. What do you think? - - Jeff Msg#: 7464 *GENERAL* 09/15/88 01:34:22 From: THOMAS BARNETT To: JEFF JENSEN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 7455 (8052 PROJECT) Ok, I like this 8052, but I have nothing to tell me how to call a machine language subroutine. There are some functions I need to cover that Basic reacts too slow. It looks like we are using similar drawings. I took mine from the Circuit Cellar project in October '86 issue of Byte. I threw out the EPROM section of the drawing and the 8255 I/O part and replaced it with a 4067 analog switch. I'm still working on interfacing these MAN-2 alpha-numeric LED's that part of it is a real pain. But the rest of the circuit is working well. I am trying to stay with CMOS and HCT TTL as much as possible. When I get that part working I'll let you know. I know the feeling on the business of work load, I am up to my neck in alligators. -Thomas- Msg#: 7482 *GENERAL* 09/15/88 19:05:30 From: JEFF JENSEN To: THOMAS BARNETT (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 7464 (8052 PROJECT) As the saying goes, its tough to remember you came to drain the swamp .... Did you get the CMOS version of the 8052? I ordered a non-CMOS device before I had heard that the CMOS device was prefered. I probably won't retrofit it with CMOS parts, at least for the time being. Please elaborate on the analog switch over the 8255. How and why did you implement it? I have made no progress on the display support question, but much of that is due to lack of documentation. I've gotten spoiled by rapid response to telephone orders and this mail order seems to be taking forever. Patience is a virtue that I am not known for, at least where computers and electronics are concerned. Access to machine language from the BASIC interpreter should be covered in the infamous BASIC-52 manual. If I had to guess, you would need to address the machine language to a location above the 8K BASIC interpreter in the instruction memory addresses. But then again, maybe using the internal ROM (BASIC) and setting pin 31 of the 8052 prevents sending address and select signals to external EPROM. We may have to wait for the book. - - Jeff Msg#: 7524 *GENERAL* 09/16/88 20:49:10 From: THOMAS BARNETT To: JEFF JENSEN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 7482 (8052 PROJECT) Jeff the 4067 is a tri-state 16 x 1 addressable analog switch. Since the 8052 does not have an IOR or IOW capability I set the 16 address locations in the high RAM address area E000 thru E00F. I connected the output of the 4067 to D0 and simply read the bit at each memory location. I have assinged each of the 16 memory locations as a specific function. If the 0 bit is true (1) then the function assigned to that location is executed. If the 0 bit is false (0) then the system will print an OK for that function or test and read the next location and so on. The function I have not yet implemented is speed. I need to call machine subroutine to handle rpm data, basic is to slow. The 4067 works ok with the 8052. I am not using the CMOS version either, but with all other drivers at hi-Z during MEM read there is no loading at all. The 4067 is nearly functionally equivalent to the 74150 except for its tri-state capability. -Thomas- Msg#: 7435 *GENERAL* 09/13/88 21:44:40 From: BILL SHEREMETA To: THOMAS MCCRYSTAL Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 6333 (NEED MAC-DRAW SOFTWARE FOR AT) Thank you for the information! But what does a MAC II cost? I have seen an article in Computer Shopper stating that refurbished LISAs with 5MB hard drive can be purchased from Sun Remarketing for $995. Msg#: 7466 *GENERAL* 09/15/88 04:35:15 From: EDDIE WHITE To: ALL Subj: Z80 CPU BOARD Does anyone know where I could find a small z80 cpu board? I'm looking for one that has just the essentials - cpu, sockets for eprom/static ram, serial i/o (or p-i/o) and some sort of bus structure. But mostly, it has to be available as a bare board and cheap! Is such a critter to be found? thanks, Eddie Msg#: 7540 *GENERAL* 09/17/88 18:04:33 From: ERIC POOLE To: EDDIE WHITE (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 7466 (Z80 CPU BOARD) Eddie: . I designed a board like that for a client a few years ago, and I can probably get you a bare board with a schematic for whatever his cost is (maybe $10-$15 or something like that, or maybe even free; he owes me a few favors), plus postage, if all you want is one. It has space for a Z80, 32K of EPROM, 32K of RAM, a CTC, and an SIO, plus a two-channel RS-232 interface and a 128-byte non-volatile memory chip. The bus is available at a 40-pin connector on one side. The board is about 6 inches square. . Only problem is, the schematic is proprietary and he might give me a hard time about giving that away (though there's nothing revolutionary about it; it's just a standard Z80 design). . If you're interested, leave me a message here; or better yet (since I only call in here every couple of weeks or so), call the Leo Technology BBS at (603) 432-2517, 300/1200/2400, N-8-1, and leave a [C]omment to the Sysop (that's me). I'll check into it and get back to you. . . . . . . ep Msg#: 7474 *GENERAL* 09/15/88 12:23:58 From: MICHAEL RIEDEL To: ALL Subj: SRAM PINOUT HELP! I'm wiring up a development cartridge for a video game machine. I'm using both 6264's and 43256's, but I can't find the pinouts anywhere! I'm under extreme time pressure to get this thing done. Could anyone call be direct (voice or modem) and give me the pinouts? It would be vastly appreciated. This is last place I can possibly think of. No nearby stores carry any reference books. My number is (516)746-3868. Ask for Mike. Thanks alot! Msg#: 7516 *GENERAL* 09/16/88 17:26:46 From: BOB MAHONEY To: MICHAEL RIEDEL (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 7474 (SRAM PINOUT) If you still need it, here is the pinout for those 2 SRAMS. The 6264 and 43256 differ only at 2 pins : PIN 64k 256k PIN 64K 256K ----------------------------------------- 1 NC A14 15 D3 2 A12 16 D4 3 A7 17 D5 4 A6 18 D6 5 A5 19 D7 6 A4 20 CS1* 7 A3 21 A10 8 A2 22 OE* 9 A1 23 A11 10 A0 24 A9 11 D0 25 A8 12 D1 26 CS2 A13 13 D2 27 WE* 14 GND 28 VCC Msg#: 7608 *GENERAL* 09/19/88 11:23:38 From: MICHAEL RIEDEL To: BOB MAHONEY (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 7516 (SRAM PINOUT) Thanks alot! It came very handy. If you've ever got any software questions regarding Apple, Commodore, Atari, IBM I'll be glad to help. Msg#: 7486 *GENERAL* 09/15/88 22:18:43 From: RICK SPEAR To: ALL Subj: IBM PC CONVERTIBLE HARD DISK I own an IBM PC Convertible and would love to hook up a hard disk to it. The machine does not have standard expansion slots, but does have an expansion port on the back for adding optional devices. Does anyone know if this is possible, and how it could be cheaply accomplished?? Msg#: 7492 *GENERAL* 09/16/88 02:43:41 From: ROBERT EUGSTER To: ALL MAC & PC USERS Subj: ARCED FILES I have Uploaded 2 files in the OTHERS section. The first ARCMAC.SIT is an archive / de-archive utility for the MAC. (You will need Stuffit to get it.) It allows Macintosh ownersto INTERCHANGE [BOTH WAYS] data with IBM & MS-DOS standard archives. Thisshould be a real boon for the Mac users on here since a lot of the files areARCed. (You still can't run each others programs,but you CAN trade code easily.) For you MS-DOS people XARCMAC.EXE is the MS-DOS executable program for extracting and listing ArcMac archives on MS-DOS machines. A few Hints & Warnings I've discovered for the MAC users. 1 ArcMac is NOT like normal Macintosh programs so read the documentation First! 2 If you use Super Clock!, ArcMac will Hang up when you try to use items from the System menu. Your best bet is to take out Super Clock and Reboot before you use ArcMac. (ArcPop, for De-Arcing only, does run with Super Clock. 3 Imagewise Mac cannot read Files saved by Imagewise Pc. (Found out the hard way, I tried) :-) It is SHAREWARE so do the right thing if you like it. Hope it helps. Robert *s - * Msg#: 7528 *GENERAL* 09/17/88 07:07:59 From: PELLERVO KASKINEN To: JIM BACHSTEIN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 6837 (IBM PC ROM) I am late with my reply, due to traveling and inability to get this board respond last weekend. Anyway, the ROMs used originally (according to the IBM Technical Reference Manual) were masked. Somehow I have marked that they were similar to TMS 4764. On the other hand, that means pin compatibility with MCM68764 and 68766. During programming ther are differe{ces of course, but the operation is the same. Pins 1 to 8 are address lines A7 to A0. 9 to 11 are data D0 to D2. Common on pin 12 and then D3 through D7 in pins 13 through 17. 18=A11, 19=A10. Then comes the only pin that could mean some difference, but does not actually seem to: pin 20 is an active low enable pin or similar chip select pin. 21 through 23 are A12 - A8. The last pin, 24 is +5 V. There is a slight difference between the 68764 and the 68766. The former one has a chip enable function and therefore uses less standby power than the 68766 that has an output enable function for the same pin #20. Otherwise, everything should be interchangeable. Oh, the 68766 is faster, because the chip is enabled all the time. The programming algorithm is the same for both as far as I can tell. It uses basically 2 millisecond pulses, verifies between the pulses and if the result is correct, then counts 5 more 2 ms pulses. Otherwise, it limits the number to 25 pulses and rejects the part, if it has not accomplished the task by then. The pulses are fed in the pin 20 and are 25 V. I have at work a programmer from Optimal Technology that does program these chips. I also have a serial interface programmer from BP Micro that also handles them. The Optimal Technology unit only works in Intel HEX, while the BP unit can handle also direct hex and direct binary. Due to some more traveling, I am not sure if I can be of more hel any time soon. -- PJK Msg#: 7718 *GENERAL* 09/21/88 19:27:56 From: JEFF JENSEN To: JIM BACHSTEIN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 6837 (IBM PC ROM) Jim, you may be after "the thrill of the chase" in burning an EPROM containing the IBM BIOS. If so, ignore this. Otherwise, I was thumbing through the Computer Shopper and found a company selling these chips, guaranteed IBM brand, and new, for $25 each. If you're interested, call Mentor Electronics, 7560 Tyler Blvd., #E, Mentor, OH, 44060, (216)951-1884. - - Jeff Msg#: 7744 *GENERAL* 09/22/88 11:55:51 From: JIM BACHSTEIN To: JEFF JENSEN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 7718 (IBM PC ROM) No I am not burning in an EPROM that contains an IBM BIOS. Why would I? The computer I am working on is a real IBM PC. What I am trying to do is write my own BIOS routine that more than likely will not work with any software (ie. DOS). In truth, I am trying to make an EPROM that when plugged into the IBM PC (which is why I wanted to know the EPROM type) will continuously run diagnostic routines on the whole system and produce error codes that are easy to understand. I realize that I could probably do this by making an EPROM that plugs into the optional socket on the board, but some clones do not have optional sockets. Therefore I want to be able to replace the BIOS. If you know of a EPROM that is already out on the market let me know. No sense re peating someone elses work. Thanx, //Jim// Msg#: 7753 *GENERAL* 09/22/88 18:43:31 From: JEFF JENSEN To: JIM BACHSTEIN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 7744 (IBM PC ROM) Sorry, I should have traced the messages back to the beginning. I do know of a company that sells a ROM/PROM/EPROM (don't know which) that plugs into an XT board and runs diagnostics. It is supposed to work down to nearly the gate level at around a 70% accuracy rate. I read an article in Micro Cornucopea on it and the company also advertises in MicroC. If you're interested, I will dredge up the info. - - Jeff Msg#: 7754 *GENERAL* 09/22/88 18:56:36 From: JEFF JENSEN To: JIM BACHSTEIN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 7744 (IBM PC ROM) Jim, I meant to mention that for 64K IBM PC boards with early BIOS chips, burning a new BIOS can be a real important thing. The early BIOS didn't support hard disks as a boot device and would only recognize 500-some K of RAM. IBM used to sell an upgrade kit (the new BIOS ROM and a chip puller) but they discontinued them several months ago. I thought you might be trying to retrofit an early board. Again, I should have traced the message thread back. - - Jeff Msg#: 7804 *GENERAL* 09/24/88 03:00:41 From: ANDREAS DESSOFF To: JEFF JENSEN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 7754 (IBM PC ROM) Some might be interested to know that so-called IBM UPGRADE BIOS ROMs (that enable the early PCs to use up to 640k ram and hard disk) have been advertised in Computer Shopper by Mentor Electronics, Inc, (216) 951-1884. Price ranges from $25.00 for one to $1500 for 6 tubes with 96 each. See Computer Shopper October 88 page 345. Msg#: 7846 *GENERAL* 09/25/88 21:04:29 From: JIM BACHSTEIN To: JEFF JENSEN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 7754 (IBM PC ROM) No problem. Just thought I should explain since tracing a message back to the beginning can be something of a bore. (and a hassle). I would be interested in that info if it is not much of a bother. What sort of prompted me to try to accomplish such a task is that I have an occasional memory error that occurs about once a month. It is verry elusive. Some of the software I have that does memory testing locks up when it does occur. Consequently, I get no inkling as to where the error occurred. I thought that a BIOS that performs such testing as well a others would not be RAM dependant and as a result can continue to perform and continue to isolate other pssible errors. In that way you can get a whole group of errors and trouble shoot instead of one error at a time. Thanx, //Jim// :-) Msg#: 7872 *GENERAL* 09/26/88 17:55:08 From: JEFF JENSEN To: JIM BACHSTEIN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 7846 (IBM PC ROM) Intermittent bugs are a lot of fun. Have you tried removing or swapping adapter cards with known good ones? Also, I had a problem with AST PCNet 2 software causing a memory (parity check) error while running the network shell and RBBS at the same time. It only occured when I failed to check the BBS for a few days at a time. On the topic of diagnostics, the product I saw is called WindsorPOST, from Windsor Technologies, Inc., 130 Alto Street, San Rafael, CA 94901, (415)456-2200. It is a ROM on a small board that replaces the BIOS chip, priced at $295. Micro Cornucopia, July-August 1988, page 17 lists the product and an article preceeding the ad talks about it. It is intended for true blue IBM PC and XTs and "compatible systems where the system board circuitry and components are extremely similar to the IBM standard." - - Jeff Msg#: 7988 *GENERAL* 10/03/88 21:37:12 From: JIM BACHSTEIN To: JEFF JENSEN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 7872 (IBM PC ROM) Intermittent problems are a pain. Well...sometimes. Anyway I was trying to do it the "scientific" way and replace only the chip in question. That did not work so I tried banks of chips. That did not work and so I am stuck. I do not have unlimited resources. I am having the intermittent parity error. It either skips from chip to chip or it is taunting me with a non-error. I thought that a BIOS that continiously performs these routines would be a good way to isolate these errors. Since $295 is not pocket change, I'll continue to work on my BIOS. //Jim// Msg#: 8046 *GENERAL* 10/04/88 18:46:34 From: JEFF JENSEN To: JIM BACHSTEIN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 7988 (IBM PC ROM) Don't blame you on the price. I'll think about your problem for awhile (boy, it seems like I've seen that before...) and leave a note if anything comes to mind. I do know that things unrelated to memory chips will trash memory. You might want to think of this in terms of refresh interference. Also PC Magazine had a utility that allowed diddling with refresh rates that may allow you to play around. - - Jeff Msg#: 8391 *GENERAL* 10/11/88 20:00:34 From: JIM BACHSTEIN To: JEFF JENSEN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 8046 (IBM PC ROM) The only problem with diddling with the refresh rates is that it slows down the computer. I guess if I have a failing memory chip, considering current RAM prices, slowing down the computer would be an even trade. Oh well, I'll give it some thought. It might work if I tweek it just a little faster. I'll run some testing program and see just how much the computer slows down with the faster refresh rates. I remember that prolonging the refresh time only gave the computer a very slight increase in speed when I was fooling around with the refresh rates earlier this year. In any event, untill later //Jim// Msg#: 8449 *GENERAL* 10/12/88 18:11:47 From: JEFF JENSEN To: JIM BACHSTEIN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 8391 (IBM PC ROM) Jim, my thought was to reduce the refresh rate to make any marginal chips show up. This isn't a foolproof method, but you are down to low-return techniques anyway. If you try it, you will probably want to see a failure consistantly on the same chip several times before feeling comfortable that you have the culprit. Also, I still can't remember the exact circumstances, but the last time I saw this problem, the cause turned out to be an expansion board. - - Jeff Msg#: 9873 *GENERAL* 11/09/88 18:36:20 From: JIM BACHSTEIN To: JEFF JENSEN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 8449 (IBM PC ROM) Thanks //Jim// Msg#: 7529 *GENERAL* 09/17/88 08:55:33 From: LARRY KAYSER To: 64180 USERS Subj: BCC-180 WITH 'OTHER' XTALS Like a lot of older 64180 users I want to convert an older home made 64180 to use the BCC-180 produced rom's. The issue is how to patch the I/O area for use with 6.144 and 12.288 MHz crystals which I think require different initialization sequences than the downwards related from 18.432 MHz. If this is public and available I would like to find it.. Thanks Larry Kayser Reply has been deleted Msg#: 7533 *GENERAL* 09/17/88 16:09:13 From: CHRIS SPACONE To: ALL Subj: EPSON LCD DISPLAY I recently picked up a supertwisted backlit LCD display at a surplus dealer in Boston, MA. It is manufactured by epson and has a part number of "ECM-A0034" and below that "4D4F49". the unit has 2 circuit boards, a main one that the display is actually attached to and a piggyback board. The main board has an Epson number as follows "P300009700" and the piggy back "P300009800". I would appreciate ANY information on these boards that I can get my hands on. I would like to specifically make one of these displays into a terminal. I can get a terminal card and keyboard and all associated schematics but I need some detailed information on the LCD module. Drop me a note here or you can call my bbs The CyberNet BBS in Millington, TN (1:123/5.0 ifna address) (901) 872-8385. Access is granted immediately so you dont have to fool with questionnaires. Msg#: 7537 *GENERAL* 09/17/88 17:17:05 From: DALE NASSAR To: ALL Subj: 68705 I found a motor controller board using an MC68705P3L. From the schematic this seems to be some kind of uCONTROLLER (24 PIN-UV ERASEABLE). I have several applications where this chip would be useful. Can anyone tell me where I can get the required data for using and programming this chip? Thanks much for any help, --Dale Msg#: 7544 *GENERAL* 09/17/88 23:13:43 From: MARK LAMPKIN To: DALE NASSAR (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 7537 (68705) Dale...The 68705P3L is a single chip micro from Motorola.It has 20 parallel I/O lines,an internal(or external input) timer,an external interrupt line,internal crystal or r/c oscillator,1760 bytes of Eprom,and 128 bytes of ram.The data for the chip can be found in the Motorola Microcontroller Manual.The interesting thing about this micro is with and assembler for the 6805 family and an 2716/32 eprom programmer you can construct a board that will let the 68705P3 program it's own Eprom.The data in the Mot. manual contains the schematic for the programmer board.If you have access to a fax machine,or want to get ahold of me,my telephone # is 313-669-4260...or my fax is 313-669-6161....Icould send copies of the Mot. info.This is probably one of the best single chip families,(and also the least known?) on the market......Mark Msg#: 7567 *GENERAL* 09/18/88 23:52:38 From: DALE NASSAR To: MARK LAMPKIN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 7544 (68705) Mark, Thanks for the extremelly useful information. I am going to try to get the manual you mentioned. If I have diffuculty I'll sure give you a call. --Dale Msg#: 7625 *GENERAL* 09/19/88 19:26:19 From: MARK LAMPKIN To: DALE NASSAR (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 7567 (68705) Dale...The other manual you "really" want is the "M6805 HMOS M146805 CMOS Family" from Motorola.It is the general applications manual on the family of products.It has a lot of interesting data for the use and the software for the complete family of 6805 products. Msg#: 7550 *GENERAL* 09/18/88 07:23:56 From: TOM THEOS To: ALL USERS Subj: C.P.M MEX114.LBR Im am trying to instal MEX114.lbr on a commodore 128. But I find the DOC with the file does not show how to do this. The only version I have is the one on the BBS here, can any one help please. Tom Theos Sydney N.S.W Msg#: 7610 *GENERAL* 09/19/88 12:37:22 From: BOB PADDOCK To: TOM THEOS (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 7550 (C.P.M MEX114.LBR) You need the file C128NEW2.LBR, it has the info on using MEX in it. I'll upload it here to the CP/M section. Msg#: 7554 *GENERAL* 09/18/88 13:58:01 From: KEN HOWELL To: ALL Subj: INTERROGATED BADGES This is a little out of the ordinary for this board, but here goes. I have a cat that takes special delight in using my neighbor's pet door. I'd like to make a "pet badge" that would respond to a radio or other (magnetic?) "interrogation" and respond with a id signal. I'd think with the recent availability of surface mount components, one could come up with a badge that is of reasonable size (1/4 inch thick and about 1 inch diameter). I've seen something similar advertized by the sharper image, but they want about $200 for it, and it looks like just a magnet and a hall effect sensor. I'm just looking for ideas. Any thoughts? --Ken Msg#: 7577 *GENERAL* 09/19/88 08:09:42 From: BOB PADDOCK To: KEN HOWELL (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 7554 (INTERROGATED BADGES) Dallas Semiconductor has anoucned a product line that does what you want. They market as a way to transmit info from Tractor-Trailers to a central dispatch as the truck goes trough the main gate. The have a transmiss range of about 5 feet. I don't have a data book here to look up the number, I know it starts out with (214) 450-????. Information can give it to you. Msg#: 7628 *GENERAL* 09/19/88 19:36:43 From: MARK LAMPKIN To: BOB PADDOCK (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 7577 (INTERROGATED BADGES) Bob...That is some interesting information on Dallas Semi...We have a 32k X 8 tag that goes to >1000mm--and I'm donig the same thing with a large furniture manufacturer...But I'm transferring the whole bill of lading plus the truck stat's......Mark Msg#: 7639 *GENERAL* 09/20/88 00:26:03 From: KEN HOWELL To: BOB PADDOCK (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 7577 (INTERROGATED BADGES) Thanks a lot. Will look into it. --Ken Msg#: 7563 *GENERAL* 09/18/88 20:06:36 From: PETER SANDERS To: STEVE CIARCIA AND ALL Subj: CROSS ASSEMBLER FOR Z8 Is ther a cross assembler available as a public domain program, if so is it available for the IBM pc /clones thank you regards Peter Sanders Perth W Australia Msg#: 7597 *GENERAL* 09/19/88 09:41:54 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: PETER SANDERS (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 7563 (CROSS ASSEMBLER FOR Z8) The only Z8 cross-assemblers that I'm aware of are commercial. One from Micro Resources is available from Micromint on an IBM PC disk for $75. If someone does have a public domain cross-assembler, we'd be glad to post it. Msg#: 9539 *GENERAL* 11/01/88 23:04:32 From: TOM ARNOLD To: PETER SANDERS Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 7563 (CROSS ASSEMBLER FOR Z8) Zilog themselves have a MS-DOS assembler for the Super8 with a Z8 only toggle on it. It came along with the ($88) Super8 development kit, and your nearest Zilog sales office should be able to help you get a copy. Msg#: 9595 *GENERAL* 11/03/88 04:35:20 From: GARY LEAR To: TOM ARNOLD (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 9539 (CROSS ASSEMBLER FOR Z8) I thought Zilog made that cross assembler public domain. Does anyone know for sure? --Gary Msg#: 9707 *GENERAL* 11/05/88 22:07:54 From: TOM ARNOLD To: GARY LEAR (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 9595 (CROSS ASSEMBLER FOR Z8) My distribution disks say Copyright 1985. If it is documented to be Public Domain I would be glad to distribute it. I need a copy of the source for their Super8 demo board monitor; I got the board after they dropped that from the package and I fried the board. Msg#: 9828 *GENERAL* 11/08/88 23:49:15 From: TOM ARNOLD To: GARY LEAR (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 9715 (CROSS ASSEMBLER FOR Z8) My local Zilog rep is a preppy playboy beter suited to selling Z280s. The Zilog rep up in Minneapolis knows the Z8, but hasn't been able to do much for me. I would certainly be thrilled to recieve the monitor source; how do we handle the transfer? Msg#: 9837 *GENERAL* 11/09/88 03:14:13 From: GARY LEAR To: TOM ARNOLD (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 9828 (CROSS ASSEMBLER FOR Z8) I can certainly sympathize with your plight of a poor Zilog rep. When I worked for DEC, Zilog thought the world had to have them or else. Unfortunately for them the answer was or else. It took years before we would even let them in the lobby again. My local rep has improved quite a bit since he first started, but he never sends the data I request. The inside sales lady is *far* better to deal with (and cuter to boot!). I have still not received the offical word on whether or not this listing is distributible (I have found the listing however). If Zilog doesn't care I would like to just mail you a xerox copy of the listing (the listing does not carry a copywright notice). I will try to get back to you in a few days. Regards, Gary. Msg#: 7566 *GENERAL* 09/18/88 21:02:29 From: MARK LAMPKIN To: KEN HOWELL (Rcvd) Subj: R.F. IDENTIFICATION Ken....It's interesting that you should bring up this subject.My line of work is in that specific area...The way to do it is not with magnetics..A simple A.M. transmitter,or better yet,F.M. could do the job for you perfectly....The way to do it is to locate a schematic for a one or two transistor F.M. transmitter and build a small tag for the cat.This xmitter would send out a simple tone...You recieve the tone and drive a PLL like the NE567...The best way is for the cat to have a tag that is a reciever and respond to the transmitter mounted on the door....Lower current draw on the tag supply,(i.e.,lithium battery),and a more secure system.If you would want more specifics..give me a call,(voice).Home...(313)669-4260...of fice...(313)669-6160..........Mark Msg#: 7572 *GENERAL* 09/19/88 02:44:13 From: KEN HOWELL To: MARK LAMPKIN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 7566 (R.F. IDENTIFICATION) Mark -- Sounds great. I have a number of the Forest Mims booklets on simple transistor r.f. circuits. These do seem a bit cumbersome for use on a cat's name tag, but I will look them over again. Is the circuit you propose one in which the tag is "asleep" until interrogated? This circuit could have all sorts of robotic applications --Ken. Msg#: 7604 *GENERAL* 09/19/88 10:29:50 From: STEVE CIARCIA To: MARK LAMPKIN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 7566 (R.F. IDENTIFICATION) Interestingly, I am also working on a tag system, primarily to be used as ID badges and for tracking people within a building. So far we have built two infrared units. One sends a coded pulse every 20 seconds and the other sends a coded pulse whenever it receives an interrogation pulse. In both cases, each room has an infrared receiver on the wall that communicates with a central tracking unit. --Steve Msg#: 7622 *GENERAL* 09/19/88 19:16:59 From: MARK LAMPKIN To: KEN HOWELL (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 7572 (R.F. IDENTIFICATION) Ken...The way we do it for the industrial uses,the tag is asleep until it is present in the field...AND...it recieves a valid quiery.This is very easy to accomplish with an all CMOS circuit....Of course for the commercial products we use extensive custom integration...Mark Msg#: 7623 *GENERAL* 09/19/88 19:20:27 From: MARK LAMPKIN To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 7604 (R.F. IDENTIFICATION) Steve...You might want to check out Texas Instruments Factory Integration Division.They have an I.R. comm link for global communications on the factory floor...As far as R.F....We have some extremely large installations in Japan for people type usage.Interestingly enough,we are the #1 system in the Japanese market,however we are designed and built in Scotts Valley,Ca.........Mark Msg#: 7626 *GENERAL* 09/19/88 19:29:15 From: MARK LAMPKIN To: KEN HOWELL (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 7572 (R.F. IDENTIFICATION) Ken...Another bye the bye....don't think in transistors only...CMOS inverters ant a lower frequency can do the same thing.Just use a longer antenna in a flat coil configuration,and if you can,increase the effective size with a little ferrite...Mark again Msg#: 7627 *GENERAL* 09/19/88 19:31:49 From: MARK LAMPKIN To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 7604 (R.F. IDENTIFICATION) Steve...just another after-thought,if you want to compare notes,give me a call.....I've done some personnel jobs...Home(313)669-4260...office........ ..(313)669-6160...fax..(313)669-6161...Mark again Msg#: 7614 *GENERAL* 09/19/88 13:48:57 From: DOUGLAS MACE To: ALL Subj: MP/M FILE TRANSFERS I am trying to exchange some .COM files between an old 'Millennium', #9520 Software Development systen-Z80 based and a PC. This system is running under MP/M 1.1 and has a console port which I am using for communications. It also has two RS-232 Ports and 8"drives. I have been able to talk with it using the 'PIP' command and do screen dumps to a 5 1/4" floppy on the PC for the ASCII source files on the disk. I am using ProComm+ in terminal mode and trying to exchange all of the binary files, on the same disk(8"), to a 5 1/4" floppy on the PC. These files are an 8048 Assembler and all the companion files used on this development system. I have NO DOC's on the old development system and don't understand what commands are required to do the binary transfers. The MP/M 1.1 operating system doesn't understand any reference to DOS drive Specs. Can anyone offer any insight into performing these transfers and after the transfers are made, can I run these programs on a DOS machine by using a specific utility to emulate the proper environment for the assembler.THANKS in advance for any HELP. -------------Doug C. Mace, Reading, PA ------------- Msg#: 7619 *GENERAL* 09/19/88 15:57:48 From: CHRIS STEINKE To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: CLONES Steve I have a few questions regarding the format of BYTE. I started reading BYTE back in about 82 and I have noticed that it has become another IBM business magazine ,with the exception of your article and once in awhile something real technical. I ussed to love reading your magazine but now I am letting my subscription run out. Because I don't like IBM computers and refuse to become a clone. I know it's an industry standard but so was CP/M and BYTe supported other computer systems at the same time. I remember something along time ago about BYTE being a "true Hackers" magazine. But it has dropped down to being just another Clone (with an occasional MAC article) magazine. Does it have something to do with Money and greed? I would love to see some support for AMIGA (which I use) Apple //e (which I am calling with) and S-100 (ol' reliable). I know you use IBMs and I don't want to offend you, but I am angry that my favorite magazine gave way and became just like all the rest and did not continue as an individual in the computer publications market.. I'll leave you alone now. Please reply! I would like to hear what YOU have to say. thanks Chris Msg#: 7645 *GENERAL* 09/20/88 09:26:58 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: CHRIS STEINKE Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 7619 (CLONES) You're new around here, aren't you? First, take a look at the bulletins and you'll find that Steve is longer writing for BYTE. His last article will appear in the December issue. Steve has become just as disillusioned as you with the way BYTE has become just another clone rag. His last few projects reflect the pressure he was receiving to conform with BYTE's "new direction." Instead of conforming, however, he started his own magazine. It is being written for the computer experimenter who likes to get down to the board level and get his hands dirty. It is called Circuit Cellar INK: The Computer Applications Journal. Go to the INK information area from the main menu for more details. You might also scan some of the older messages here for just how widespread your opinion of BYTE really is. Seems anyone who read BYTE a few years ago has become just as disgusted. Msg#: 7720 *GENERAL* 09/21/88 20:06:52 From: JOHN COOK To: CHRIS STEINKE Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 7619 (CLONES) I know what you mean! I was looking through some old Bytes a while ago and noticed that the Circuit Cellar has slipped from the front of the magazine to the back and now its falling out the back cover. I subscribed to CCInk and I love it. In only 3 issues (that I have) I learned more about computers, computer periferals and assembler programming than in 2 years of Byte. (no reflection on Steve C.) For example: last month the whole magazine was dedicated to stepper motors which I knew nothing about before I read those articles. Now I know enough to build just about any project I can think of with stepper motors. Thanks guys! ->Dedicated CCInk Reader John C. Msg#: 7631 *GENERAL* 09/19/88 21:06:36 From: MICHAEL RIEDEL To: ALL USERS Subj: ROMS I have two questions I'm hoping you could help me with. First, I would like to find out the costs involved in creating a custom ROM chip. It would be either 16 or 32 Kbytes, and the quantities could be anywhere from 1000 to 5000 units (or more). I would think that the initial mask for the ROM would be rather expensive but that the cost per unit thereafter would be relatively low compared to PROMs or even EPROMs. Even a very general idea of the costs involved would help. Second, I need to connect a wire-wrapped circuit board to devices which have either 36 or 40 pin edge connectors. For now, I etched a small circuit board, soldered a ribbon cable connector to it, and plugged it in. I need 3 or 4 more, though, and I don't want to go through all that work again. Does anyone sell anything that I could use instead? If not, do you have any ideas? Thanks. Msg#: 7640 *GENERAL* 09/20/88 00:32:52 From: KEN HOWELL To: MARK LAMPKIN (Rcvd) Subj: UNDERGROUND RATED FIBER Mark -- A while back you described using optical fiber to interface with a 1802 driven garden controller (or some such). Do you bury the fiber, and if so, where does one get underground rated fiber? --Ken. Msg#: 7650 *GENERAL* 09/20/88 14:27:58 From: MARK LAMPKIN To: KEN HOWELL (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 7640 (UNDERGROUND RATED FIBER) Ken...The fiber does not have to be "underground" rated as there is no current/voltage present.The only thong you should look for is a polypropyle ne or teflon jacket.The plus is that since there is no ambient light,techni cally there is no reason for a jacket,just sink it deep...Mark Msg#: 7681 *GENERAL* 09/21/88 00:01:00 From: KEN HOWELL To: MARK LAMPKIN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 7650 (UNDERGROUND RATED FIBER) I handn't thought of current or voltage as the criteria for underground rating. I was concerned about the jacket material, because I thought that some types of jacket material deteriorated underground. Anyhow, you answered my question. --Ken. Msg#: 7707 *GENERAL* 09/21/88 13:29:30 From: RON WILSON To: KEN HOWELL (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 7681 (UNDERGROUND RATED FIBER) You should use some kind of jacketted fiber anyway to protect the fiber from being scratched or outright cut by some borrowing animal. Msg#: 7709 *GENERAL* 09/21/88 14:16:45 From: MARK LAMPKIN To: KEN HOWELL (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 7681 (UNDERGROUND RATED FIBER) If you burry the fiber deeper than 28-30" the animals won't bother it,also the fiber will be below the frost line....I'm here in Michigan...Mark Msg#: 7646 *GENERAL* 09/20/88 10:17:00 From: STEVE CIARCIA To: CHRIS STEINKE Subj: CLONE MAGAZINES As Ken mentioned, we have not stood still while BYTE shoots itself in the foot. I think you'll find that Circuit Cellar INK is everything you had hoped BYTE would still be. As far as your comments about BYTE, they should really be directed to Fred Langa, editor-in-chief of BYTE. For me, I'm outta' there! As of December '88, I am no longer in BYTE (99999999999999999 --Steve Msg#: 7652 *GENERAL* 09/20/88 16:07:06 From: RICHARD ANDREWS To: JIM SCORSE Subj: VIDEO CHIPS . Some time back you left a message to some one saying that Yamaha made a video IC that was a replacement for TI's 9118. I have tried to get more info on this device but haven't been able to locate any. Do you have a phone number or an address for them? Thanks. Msg#: 7670 *GENERAL* 09/20/88 20:51:48 From: PETE ROUMELIOTIS To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: GETTING STARTED IN HARDWARE STEVE I WOULD APPRECIATE ANY HELP YOU COULD GIVE ME. I'M JUST GETTING STARTED IN HARDWARE DESIGN PROJECTS AND WOULD LIKE TO GET SOME INFO ON IBM PC/XT HARDWARE, ETC. COULD YOU GIVE ME ANY HELP ON WHERE TO GET INFO AND HELP. I'LL BE GETTING A SUBSCRIPTION TO YOUR NEW MAG SOON. I,VE ENJOYED YOUR ARTICLES IN THE PAST. THANKS A LOT. SINCERELY, PETE ROUMELIOTIS Msg#: 7713 *GENERAL* 09/21/88 14:40:12 From: STEVE CIARCIA To: PETE ROUMELIOTIS (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 7670 (GETTING STARTED IN HARDWARE) Sorry, Pete, but back when there were only 10 books on the computer slelves it was easy to recommend reading material. Now a lot of it is trash. Most of the people around here would agree that the best way to learn is by doing. Get the basics elsewhere like school, books, computer clubs, etc, then try one of the projects publisished in CC INK or other computer mag and you'll soon understand the difference between theory and practice. --Steve Msg#: 7721 *GENERAL* 09/21/88 20:14:47 From: JOHN COOK To: PETE ROUMELIOTIS (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 7670 (GETTING STARTED IN HARDWARE) Maybe I can help here- Radio Shack sells some good books by Forest Mimms III, mainly "Getting Started In Electronics" it gives electronic fundamentals in an easy to understand manner. But I agree with Steve on finding out what you can in school, once you understand electron basics (in Chemistry) you should be able to get started. If you want basics on digital circuits try getting some of National Semiconductor's data books, thats how I picked up what AND, OR, XOR and NOT meant. Its actually simple, you cant get much harder than 1s and 0s! John Msg#: 7672 *GENERAL* 09/20/88 21:01:37 From: MARK LAMPKIN To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: PCB'S Steve.....in on of the past issues of INK,(I believe it was INK),you mentioned having circuit boards done for about a buck an inch....Who does this at this price?...Do they take smartwork files?...Any info will help, I'm getting tired of doing them in my basement.......Mark Msg#: 7693 *GENERAL* 09/21/88 08:33:37 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: MARK LAMPKIN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 7672 (PCB'S) I don't believe anything like that has ever appeared in either BYTE or INK. I do recall some messages here a few months ago on the subject, though. Try searching the message headers for keywords like "PCB," "CIRCUIT," "BOARD," and "LAYOUT." Msg#: 7678 *GENERAL* 09/20/88 22:13:43 From: JAMES HAWLEY To: ALL Subj: BASIC I am trying to find out if there is a basic compiler for the 8051 it would be nice to be able to quicklydevelope code then have it run fast as well If anyone has seen such a thing please let me know Jhawley (bix) James Hawley 4272 queen ave. s Mpls. Mn. Ps. I think it could really speed up developmnet time on steve's new multiprocessor project. Msg#: 7682 *GENERAL* 09/21/88 00:04:19 From: KEN HOWELL To: ALL Subj: 6870X AND 68HC11 ASSEMBLER I've got the C source for the above assemblers, if anyone is interested. Let me know && I'll upload them. --Ken. Msg#: 7827 *GENERAL* 09/25/88 09:28:25 From: KEITH TUCHOLSKI To: KEN HOWELL (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 7682 (6870X AND 68HC11 ASSEMBLER) ken, one vote of intrest. thanx in advance. keith Msg#: 7850 *GENERAL* 09/25/88 22:39:34 From: KEN HOWELL To: KEITH TUCHOLSKI (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 7827 (6870X AND 68HC11 ASSEMBLER) I'll get them arced and uploaded in a few days. Happy hunting! --Ken. Msg#: 7858 *GENERAL* 09/26/88 03:21:17 From: ROY CLAY To: KEN HOWELL (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 7682 (6870X AND 68HC11 ASSEMBLER) I'm interested too! Msg#: 8122 *GENERAL* 10/06/88 04:34:55 From: KEITH TUCHOLSKI To: KEN HOWELL (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 7850 (6870X AND 68HC11 ASSEMBLER) thanx, will try to find them. keith Msg#: 7683 *GENERAL* 09/21/88 00:06:26 From: KEN HOWELL To: KEN DAVIDSON (Rcvd) Subj: PCP AND PROTOCOLS Ken-- Since the hartford pcp node is now active, are there any plans to install a "pcp" compatible protocol for uploading and downloading? Regular XMODEM takes forever to transfer files -- up or down. --Ken. Msg#: 7691 *GENERAL* 09/21/88 08:26:35 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: KEN HOWELL (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 7683 (PCP AND PROTOCOLS) XMODEM is PCP compatible, but as you say takes a while. YMODEM works much better, but still doesn't do quite as well as a windowed protocol. We can't add protocols to TBBS just by adding programs. In order to get such good performance with multiple incoming lines, TBBS must have complete control over the machine at all times. Version 2.1 of TBBS (supposed to be out soon) has support for sliding windows Kermit as well as regular Kermit. As far as I can tell, ZMODEM won't be supported at all. Msg#: 7766 *GENERAL* 09/22/88 22:10:29 From: KEN HOWELL To: KEN DAVIDSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 7691 (PCP AND PROTOCOLS) Oh well. I guess that's the price one pays for cheaper phone bills! --Ken. Msg#: 7696 *GENERAL* 09/21/88 08:44:57 From: KEMALE DELIC To: ALL Subj: UNKNOWN IC - LA 2210 Help !! Anybody can help with info about LA 2210 IC. I'd like to have pinout & function. Any suggestion about data sheets. I tryed with IC master and some catalogs, but no such beast. I would appreciate any help or suggestion. Thanx ! Kemale a. Delic - Europe - YU Msg#: 7704 *GENERAL* 09/21/88 12:05:48 From: BOB PADDOCK To: KEMALE DELIC Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 7696 (UNKNOWN IC - LA 2210) Is there any type of Logo on the part? How many pins does it have? What do you think it might be (what did it come out of, or where did you get it)? Msg#: 7698 *GENERAL* 09/21/88 09:40:54 From: ROBERT OBER To: ALL Subj: ONYX I would appreciate any help that anyone can give. I am trying to boot an ONYX c8002 Unix system. I am getting disk errors and the owner does not have the original docs. He bought it as part of a pharmacy package and it ran all the time. It has not been booted in close to two years. I do get a prompt after the system checks itself out. If I hit two returns it searches the hard drive and gives erroros and stops. Does anyone know how to get it to access the tape drive, so I can format and reload Unix? thanks, Robert Ober Msg#: 7701 *GENERAL* 09/21/88 10:41:32 From: CHUCK BERNARD To: ALL USERS Subj: DIALING UP I'm having trouble connecting at anything higher than 300 baud. I am calling from Sweden. I have tried 4 different modems from four different manufacturers. I have set them for BELL standards. With gaurd tones, and without. Any suggestions from anyone. Is it even possible to connect on such a long distance at 1200 or 2400? Any ideas would be appreciated. As you can guess, just typing this letter costed my boss about $20. I will read for reply Thursday my time. (9 hour time difference). Thanks Chuck Bernard. Msg#: 7729 *GENERAL* 09/21/88 22:26:16 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: CHUCK BERNARD (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 7701 (DIALING UP) Maybe one of our international callers can make some suggestions. The modems we use here are USRobotics Courier 2400s and are probably the most-used modem for U.S. BBSs. They support Bell 103, 212A, and V.22bis. I've seen callers from Australia and Europe come in at as high as 2400 without any difficulty. You might try calling (203) 871-0549 at 1200 bps on your next call and see if it helps. We have a different brand modem on that line with a maximum rate of 1200 bps. Msg#: 7737 *GENERAL* 09/22/88 09:40:47 From: CHUCK BERNARD To: KEN DAVIDSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 7729 (DIALING UP) I have tried the other number also. No luck there either. I can't seem to contact any other modem in the states above 300 baud either. I have also tried a World port modem purchaced in the states. I select the default settings (bELL). Still no luck. I dont' mmind using 300 baud. It will cost me too much money to down load the software I would like. Is it possible to receive the software on a disk for a fee? Even $20, $40 would be ok compared to the phone costs. If this message is slightly unreadable, its because I cannot even read it at this point. Must be a noisy line. Thanks for your previous reply. Chuck Msg#: 7742 *GENERAL* 09/22/88 10:32:28 From: NICK BRENCKLE To: KEN DAVIDSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 7729 (DIALING UP) The noisy line could be your key to why your not connecting. The noise may be preventing your connection at a higher speed. I dont think that the distance has much to do with it (or the modem, I've seen international callers from europe and australia on Hayes/Passports etc etc..) You might try calling on a cleaner line? Any way for you to try that? Msg#: 7748 *GENERAL* 09/22/88 16:06:50 From: RON WILSON To: KEN DAVIDSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 7729 (DIALING UP) Another possiblity is that most European states' phone companies don't like people using modems at all. The implication is that they may be using some kind of line conditioners to foil (sp?) modem usage. (A friend of mine from West Germany told me that up until recently only 300 buad modems were allowed and then only with a special government license) Msg#: 7770 *GENERAL* 09/22/88 23:28:43 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: CHUCK BERNARD (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 7737 (DIALING UP) Issue #5 of INK will announce a new service that provides messages on disk and INK-related software on disk. I'll be posting more information here soon. We don't have any plans for distributing the general public domain or shareware files. There are so many variables involved in distributing such files for a fee that we don't feel it's worth the hassle. Since we own the rights to both the messages and the INK software, making those available is much simpler. Msg#: 7826 *GENERAL* 09/25/88 03:39:44 From: CHUCK BERNARD To: KEN DAVIDSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 7770 (DIALING UP) Sounds real good. I subscribed to it about two weeks ago. I am very interested in the DDT-51 project. When will I receive the next publication ? Have I missed any information on the DDT-51 project in previous issues? If so, I would like them also. Thanks, Chuck Msg#: 7881 *GENERAL* 09/28/88 08:33:59 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: CHUCK BERNARD (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 7826 (DIALING UP) Issue #5 should be back from the printers any day and will be mailing in the next week or so. It is the first issue to have any DDT-51 information. Msg#: 7703 *GENERAL* 09/21/88 10:54:00 From: ROBERT SCHULTZ To: ALL Subj: HELP NEEDED Hello! I'm in desprate need for some assembler routines for the Intel 8751H processor. I'm just learning the 8751 and I have to get a project out the door real soon. The application is very simple. I have a bar code reader that will transmit ASCII text (3 Bytes) to the 8751. (Standard Serial Trans.) I need the processor to look this code up in a data table to find corresponding message text to transmit out to a speech board which accepts ASCII text. The problem is that I don't know enough about the 8751 to init. the serial port, Baud Rate stuff. Would anyone like to write a very simple program for me? (Please?) I will consider ANY offer. (Including compensation for your time) The program can be very simple: 1. Read in 3 Bytes from the serial port. 2. Check to see if there is a message for this 3 byte number. 3. If there is, send the message only out the serial port. 4. If there is no message for this 3 digit number just say "Invalid Code" I would even be happy with some skeleton code to just figure out how to set things up. Thank you for checking out my situation. If there is anyone who would like to consider the offer, just leave a message, I'll be checking back very often. THANK YOU THANK YOU Robert Schultz 1-800-821-5536 Msg#: 7732 *GENERAL* 09/21/88 23:15:22 From: ROBERT BARBAGALLO To: ALL Subj: IBM DAC CARD HI THERE, DOES ANYBODY HAVE TECHNICAL INFO ON THE IBM DAC CARD? I NEED TO KNOW ABOUT THE ADDRESS LOCATIONS OF THE PORTS. I AM PLANNIG TO USE THE CARD TO CONTROL LIGHTING IN A SMALL PLAY HOUSE HERE IN MONTREAL. THANKS!! BOB. Msg#: 7834 *GENERAL* 09/25/88 15:35:35 From: JOHN QUINTANA To: ROBERT BARBAGALLO (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 7732 (IBM DAC CARD) We have several of the IBM DAC cards at my work although we have yet to try to use them for anything. The manuals for the card are available from IBM for about $25 (not bad considering its from Big Blue). If you bought your card from Mendellson Electronics, you should have recieved a disk of source code that shows you how to access various features of the card. Which features did you want to use, the DtoA, AtoD, parallel ? Msg#: 7991 *GENERAL* 10/03/88 23:43:35 From: ROBERT BARBAGALLO To: JOHN QUINTANA (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 7834 (IBM DAC CARD) WELL I WOULD LIKE TO USE ALL THE FEATURES. I HAVE THE DISK THAT CAME WITH THE CARD BUT IT IS NO SPECIFIC ENOUGHT. I WOULD LIKE TO WRITE MY PROGRAMS IN QUICK BASIC. WOULD YOU HAVE A LIST OF THE ADDESS ??? THANK YOU. BOB Msg#: 8242 *GENERAL* 10/08/88 12:34:10 From: JOHN QUINTANA To: ROBERT BARBAGALLO (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 7991 (IBM DAC CARD) The addresses are imbedded in the Turbo Pascal code. I'll dig out the infor for you if you aren't familiar with Pascal. Hmm... maybe its about time that my company orders the manual from IBM as well Msg#: 7740 *GENERAL* 09/22/88 10:20:46 From: GREG D'UNGER To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: GENERAL I was sorry to learn that Circuit Cellar will no longer be part of BYTE. Thanks for all the articles, Steve. It seems more&more of the 'nitty-gritty ' stuff is disappearing or relegated to BIX. Access thru this BBS at least only requires payment to the 'Baby Bells' and not the ElectroMessengers ... thanks for making it available. Now if I give up one soda every other week I could put INK in my budget. Msg#: 7743 *GENERAL* 09/22/88 11:31:35 From: LARRY YOUNKINS To: DAVE EVERS (Rcvd) Subj: PCB'S Dave, I was scanning old messages and came across a discussion of PCB fabrication techniques. I, too, am interested in one-sided and possibly two-sided PCB fabrication. I have access to a HP LaserJet printer for making transparenci es. What PCB design program are you using? Does it provide output for the HP Laserjet (I think the QMS and LaserJet are similar in resolution 300 dpi in graphics mode). Do you have a source for pre-laminated board Thanks in advance for the information.... Larry Younkins Msg#: 9261 *GENERAL* 10/27/88 13:28:57 From: DAVE EVERS To: LARRY YOUNKINS (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 7743 (PCB'S) The program I use is called PC-Pro from a company called AMS in Florida. It is a rather low-cost ($295) program that fits my needs just fine. It does not provide specific output to Laser Printers; so I started toying around with writing a program to read the data file and then output it to a LJ Series II; but have not yet gotten the kind of results I would like. However, I have noticed a number of commercial programs lately that will take a file in HPGL (plotter language) and convert it to a number of different printers - including lasers. I'd be interested to see how they would handle something as complex as a PC board layout. As for fabrication, I have had quite satisfactory results using the dry-film laminated PC boards. I have used both pre-laminated boards and tried my hand at laminating my own and am now getting pretty much the same results both ways. However, even though I was able to create a fairly-well registered double-sided board of medium complexity (about 300 holes) I have not had satisfactory results with board assembly - not having plated through holes is a real pain. However, single sided boards work great; and now I will do a PC board (as long as its single- sided) rather than do a point-to-point or wire wrap if I feel the design is even marginally stable. It's nice to have a consistent means of getting low cost single sided boards at your own pace. As for getting pre-laminated boards, the original source is KEPRO located in Fenton, MO; but they appear to sell through distributors such as Newark, Allied, etc. And even they usually only sell the boards in packs of 6 or so - can get somewhat expensive if you only need a few square inches of PCB area. Msg#: 9460 *GENERAL* 10/31/88 11:46:28 From: LARRY YOUNKINS To: DAVE EVERS Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 9261 (PCB'S) Dave, Thanks for the reply. I've already bought the PCPRO software and am quite pleased with it. For your information AMS will be providing a LaserJet driver in approximately a month or so for the PCPRO II software. Such a driver currently exists for their schematic capture software. Larry T. Younkins Msg#: 7750 *GENERAL* 09/22/88 17:09:12 From: RICHARD ANDREWS To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: IBM HARDWARE . I was wondering if you or anyone else could suggest some books that will help me get aquainted with the IBM PC hardware details. I am thinking in terms of using PC compatible hardware for embedded control applications. Companies like Ampro offer some interesting looking stuff. . I already have the books by Peter Norton which is a good start, but I would like something with more info on interfacing, etc. . Thanks for you help. Msg#: 7776 *GENERAL* 09/23/88 08:55:15 From: STEVE CIARCIA To: RICHARD ANDREWS (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 7750 (IBM HARDWARE) I'll leave it to others to suggest books. It has been a while since I have needed introductory texts and some of the new ones may be better. Regarding embedded control using PCs, better check the price on the Ampro, it's pretty expensive. If you have the room, you can install a whole clone with I/o boards for less. --Steve Msg#: 7785 *GENERAL* 09/23/88 12:11:41 From: RICHARD ANDREWS To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 7776 (IBM HARDWARE) . Thanks I'll give it some more thought. Can anybody else out there suggest something? Msg#: 7805 *GENERAL* 09/24/88 03:12:33 From: ANDREAS DESSOFF To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 7776 (IBM HARDWARE) As a hardware-related introduction to the IBM PC, I would suggest Sargent/Shoemaker: "The IBM PC From the Inside Out". This is getting a little old by now (at least my edition that is dated 1984), but the PC is not getting younger, either. The publisher is Addison-Wesley, ISBN is 0-201-06896-6, price on my copy is $17.95. The book also has many low-level programming examples, which although usually formally correct do not always adhere to what I would call "good programming practices"; they do illustrate the functions of the hardware, though. In addition, one would be well advised to have a copy of the IBM Technical Reference (I have so far shunned spending the money nut wish I had one) and also quite essential, a copy of the Intel Microsystem handbook (available from Intel for about $25 unless they think you are an important customer - in which case they just might give you one for free - isn't that an amazing attitude? They have a literature catalog and charge for every one of their publications!). Msg#: 7755 *GENERAL* 09/22/88 18:59:23 From: JEFF JENSEN To: ALL Subj: COMDEX Is anyone planning a trip to COMDEX this year? I won't argue the pros and cons of the show, but it could be an opportunity for some of us to meet and shoot the breaze. If you have plans to attend and an inclination to meet, lets talk. - - Jeff Msg#: 7781 *GENERAL* 09/23/88 09:17:28 From: STEVE CIARCIA To: JEFF JENSEN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 7755 (COMDEX) Curt Franklin, Dan Rodrigues (publisher), and I will be at Comdex. So will Robert Tinney ( I think he has a booth). --Steve Msg#: 7794 *GENERAL* 09/23/88 17:51:21 From: JEFF JENSEN To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 7781 (COMDEX) Vegas, and Comdex itself, are huge. Would it be appropriate to call a time and place to meet? I have had mixed results meeting people at the show. Any suggestions on getting interested parties to the party are welcome. - - Jeff Msg#: 7821 *GENERAL* 09/24/88 20:34:14 From: CHUCK FRYAR To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 7781 (COMDEX) Steve - I am in Idaho and would really like to get down to LV to Comdex this fall. If you and other CC people are going to be there, I think it would be a terrific idea to plan a get-together one evening and get a chance to meet face to face. I would be happy to send along 10 or 20 bucks to help with a place and/or refreshments. Probably a Monday or Friday would be best so I could take advantage of travel on weekends. If I can help with any logistics etc., please ask. ++ Chuck P.S. If you happen to locate a phone or address on that General Scanning, please drop me a note. Thanks. Msg#: 7884 *GENERAL* 09/28/88 09:04:24 From: STEVE CIARCIA To: JEFF JENSEN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 7794 (COMDEX) Meeting someplace during Comdex sounds fine. Let me talk to Curt and also check our schedule. Things are a little crazy around here because we are going to England betwenn now and Comdex too. --Steve Msg#: 7923 *GENERAL* 09/28/88 17:10:40 From: JEFF JENSEN To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 7884 (COMDEX) Sounds good to me. Have a good trip! - - Jeff Msg#: 8244 *GENERAL* 10/08/88 13:24:28 From: KEN HOWELL To: CHUCK FRYAR (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 7821 (COMDEX) Chuck -- Someone else from Idaho frequenting this board! Great! --Ken. (Boise) Msg#: 8279 *GENERAL* 10/09/88 19:23:29 From: CHUCK FRYAR To: KEN HOWELL (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 8244 (COMDEX) Hi Ken, good to know of someone on this area. I'm in Soda Springs (about 50 Mi. east of Pocatello) writing software for the Health care industry. I have the fancy title of VP of Engineering for a 3 man company. This bbs is as close to association with other engineers as I get. What do you do and what are your intrests? I sometimes get up that way as my wife is from Council. Are you going to get to Comdex? Good to hear from you :-) ++Chuck Msg#: 8335 *GENERAL* 10/11/88 01:02:22 From: KEN HOWELL To: CHUCK FRYAR (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 8279 (COMDEX) Just work at a desk job in Boise, and nothing to do with computers or electronics. I don't think that I'm going to get to Comdex, but if you're in Boise, look me up -- I'm in the book. --Ken. Msg#: 7765 *GENERAL* 09/22/88 21:48:10 From: BYRON BLAKE To: ALL Subj: "C" LANGUAGE PUBLIC DOMAIN COMPILERS FOR IB Dear Users of CCBBS, I am looking for a "C" language compiler in the public domain. I would much appreciate that names of public domain C compilers and/or a copy. Please, only public domain or shareware software. Your efforts will be much appreciated. MixC, and SmallC I believe are public domain/shareware, please correct me if I am mistaken. Sincerely, Byron Blake, KA1ILI Tolland, Connecticut Msg#: 7835 *GENERAL* 09/25/88 15:39:31 From: JOHN QUINTANA To: BYRON BLAKE (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 7765 ("C" LANGUAGE PUBLIC DOMAIN COMPILER) The SmallC Compiler is a Public Domain C compiler and is available from the Byte BBS at 617-861-9764 Msg#: 7841 *GENERAL* 09/25/88 17:32:38 From: BYRON BLAKE To: JOHN QUINTANA (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 7835 ("C" LANGUAGE PUBLIC DOMAIN COMPILER) Dear John, Thank you very much for your reply. I have acquired Small-C from a local BBS located here in Tolland, Connecticut [Dave's Opus, FidoNet 0:142/550, 203-871-3791]. Again, thank you. If you area C programmer or user, I'd be gald to share library functions with you, especially if you use Small-C or Mix-C (Mix-C is not public domain). Byron, ARS KA1ILI Fido 0:142/550 via Echo Msg#: 7767 *GENERAL* 09/22/88 22:19:54 From: KEN HOWELL To: ALL Subj: ZMAC.ARC Does anyone here know the source of the Zmac.arc file? I'm trying to port the C code to the Amiga, and have run into a block. Zmac, as contained in the library here, uses "variable arguments" or varargs, and no current version of amiga C Compilers support that particular macro. I could hack a solution, but is would sure be easier to have the old source code. Another solution would be source code for the "stdargs.h" header file, and I could port *that* to the amiga. Any suggestions? --Ken. Msg#: 7775 *GENERAL* 09/23/88 03:53:33 From: EDDIE WHITE To: ALL Subj: BROWN X10 CHIPS Has anyone ever had any luck getting X10 to sell the chip that goes into the old BSR brown lamp boxes? I've got a collection of these critters that all failed for the same reason - the lamp burned out, the fuse blew, DOA. On the other hand, maybe lining the bottom of the junk box is a better place for them..... thanks, Eddie Msg#: 7780 *GENERAL* 09/23/88 09:14:45 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: EDDIE WHITE (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 7775 (BROWN X10 CHIPS) Considering that a new module only costs $10 on sale at Radio Shack and that the new modules are much more reliable than the brown ones, is it really worth the hassle to try to fix the old ones? Msg#: 7801 *GENERAL* 09/24/88 00:59:56 From: EDDIE WHITE To: KEN DAVIDSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 7780 (BROWN X10 CHIPS) well...... not really. I just hate it when my stuff breaks and I have to fix it. And even worse when I can fix it and can't get parts. I know!!! I'll use em for sinkers on my fishin' line. Eddie Msg#: 7778 *GENERAL* 09/23/88 09:08:54 From: STEVE CIARCIA To: GREG D'UNGER (Rcvd) Subj: NO LONGER IN BYTE What's even worse, Greg, is that BYTE has suddenly deemed Circuit Cellar INK as competetive and management has decided (I am told) not to even mention my leaving BYTE. They are just going to let the December issue go by and then introduce a new guy (no hardware construction articles, however) that will be doing "technology stuff" in January. I guess they presume that all you guys won't notice I'm gone and will continue to subscribe, thinking I just took a few months off. Welcome to big business, --Steve Msg#: 7787 *GENERAL* 09/23/88 12:58:01 From: RICHARD ANDREWS To: KEN DAVIDSON (Rcvd) Subj: ARC FILE . I have tried downloading a file called X10UNIX.ARC from the X10 file area; when I try to unarc it one of the files seems to bo corrupted. I tried a second time on a diffreent day with the same results. Would it be possible for you post another copy of the archive? Thanks for your help. Msg#: 7797 *GENERAL* 09/23/88 22:42:37 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: RICHARD ANDREWS (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 7787 (ARC FILE) I'd love to, but that's the only copy I have. Someone else uploaded it to the board and you're the first to have a problem with it. Perhaps whoever uploaded it will see these messages and resend it. Msg#: 7864 *GENERAL* 09/26/88 12:53:00 From: RICHARD ANDREWS To: KEN DAVIDSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 7797 (ARC FILE) . Thanks for the help anyway. Msg#: 7788 *GENERAL* 09/23/88 16:23:36 From: ROBERT SHANKS To: RON WILSON/ANDY PICKETT Subj: SYNTH KEYBOARDS Hi Guys- I'm a synth tech in NC and have seen most of Yamaha, Roland, Sequential... keyboard circuits. What 95 percent of the folks are doing is measuring the time between leaving a top contact and connecting with a bottom contact on each key. Kind of like a SPDT switch. Quite a few manufacturers use separate single-chip microcontrollers just to scan the keyboard so that velocity will be accurate. The aftertouch pressure is usually sensed with a a pressure sensitive resistive strip and read with an A/D converter. If you have any other synth related questions - let me know. I'll be glad to help. --Robert Msg#: 7861 *GENERAL* 09/26/88 11:32:47 From: RON WILSON To: ROBERT SHANKS (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 7788 (SYNTH KEYBOARDS) Thanks. I had seen a lot of resistor-sensor-with-op-amp-integrator circuits in synths several years ago. It hadn't occured to me that they would have switched to digital timing. I do know that there is a synth keyboard out there (for around $2000) that does use some kind of linear HAL Effect for both velocity and after touch for each key instead of having a single after touch pressure sensor for the entire keyboard. Unfortunately, I don't remember who. Msg#: 8187 *GENERAL* 10/07/88 10:02:38 From: ROBERT SHANKS To: RON WILSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 7861 (SYNTH KEYBOARDS) Hi Ron - If you can remember who has the Hall effect keyboard let me know. I'd like to check out the circuitry. I think everyone went to digital timing sensed keyboards because they were cheaper. Robert - Msg#: 8193 *GENERAL* 10/07/88 13:40:17 From: RON WILSON To: ROBERT SHANKS (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 8187 (SYNTH KEYBOARDS) The reason this one keyboard uses linear HAL effect is to provide not only velecity on each key, but also after touch pressure for each key (polyphonic after touch). My understanding is that there is a second spring under each key - a very stiff spring; the circuitry then uses the distance the key is from "absolute" bottom as a messure of the pressure on that key. As for why some one would want polyphonic after touch: My guess: It's more expressive. Of course there is a cost: such a keyboard would generate very large amounts of MIDI data. Msg#: 9327 *GENERAL* 10/28/88 14:53:37 From: ROBERT SHANKS To: RON WILSON Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 8193 (SYNTH KEYBOARDS) Thanks - I think the new Ensoniq SQ-80 works that way but I'm not sure. Ensoniq does not give out schematics. They work on a board swap basis for repairs, which is too bad because you never learn about what wasn't working. --Robert Msg#: 7828 *GENERAL* 09/25/88 10:00:10 From: LARRY YOUNKINS To: ALL Subj: SILICON RADIATION DETECTORS Is anyone familar with the circuitry necessary to use pn-junction type radiation detectors? I am currently investigating the possibility of using such a device to detect alpha-radiation emitted from the decay of radon gas. Initially I plan to use a simple scheme to count threshold crossings due to the decay events. I understand that these detectors work by using the pn-junction in reversed biased mode. The radiation decay events generate electron-hole pairs causing a modulation of the reverse junction current. Any assistance would be greatly appreciated. Larry Younkins Msg#: 7832 *GENERAL* 09/25/88 15:27:28 From: THOMAS BUCHANAN To: STEVE CARCIA Subj: RINGMASTER In many areas local telephone companies offer RINGMASTER (it may go by other names) service, a potentially handy service. It allows a one-phoneline home to have as many as 2 additional (listed or unlisted) phone numbers feeding into its one incoming phoneline. Each number has its own "ring" pattern, allowing one to recognize which number is being called by its own distinctive "ring". Even the CALL WAITING signal tone matches the "ring" pattern, allowing the user to know which number is waiting while he/she is yakking away on ano- ther "line". Of course, since the home/business still has only one phone line only one conversation can occur at a time. Outgoing calls are not affected. This can be a great service if you have children, are on-call, etc. and don't want the expense of a second or third phone line. . For instance, if your main phone normally rings....... . ring..........ring..........ring..........etc. . Your second RINGMASTER number may sound....... . ring..ring....ring..ring....ring..ring....etc. . And your third RINGMASTER number will sound in clusters of threes. . PROBLEM: I have used this service for a few weeks & like it very much. Un- fortunately, my answering machine has trouble coping. It is a PHONE-MATE dual microcassette unit and normally, I keep it set to "answer" on the 4th "ring", which allows me 3 rings to answer the phone (if I'm around). Since the machine counts the numbers of rings, an incoming call on a second RINGMASTER number causes it to sense 4 rings within the time limit of 2 rings (a third RINGMASTER number is worse). Only the maddest of lunges allows one (human) to answer the phone before the machine takes over. . There would seem to be 2 ways to address the problem. One might be to place a "ring gatekeeper" in the phoneline before the answering machine, blocking out the "extra" rings. Another appproach would be to modify the ring counting circuitry in the answering machine. NE555 timer projects come to mind. What- ever, the answering machine should sense the same number of rings per time period whatever RINGMASTER number is "ringing". . Before I possibly reinvent the wheel it would be good to know if anyone has already dealt with this problem. Might even make an interesting construct- ion project for CCINK, since there will probably be increasing numbers of people dealing with this frustrating problem with RINGMASTER. Msg#: 7985 *GENERAL* 10/03/88 19:28:16 From: ALEXANDER SCHNEIDER To: THOMAS BUCHANAN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 7832 (RINGMASTER) I would think that most of the reason for having a second line would be to have two concurrent conversations. How do you find ringmaster usefule? Alex Msg#: 7844 *GENERAL* 09/25/88 19:40:59 From: MARK LAMPKIN To: BOB MATTESON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG #7809 Bob...Another thought on the basic.......First Matra is a French company and yes they are partners with Harris....Secondly,if you have the Intel basic source,you can blow it into a 27C64 and use it with the ... ...CHEAP(?)... 80C32.It ends up being the same thing as the 80C52 but you don't have all the I/O pins,but 74HCT573 or 4's and/or 80C55's can rectify that situation.......Mark (again) Msg#: 8009 *GENERAL* 10/04/88 06:48:25 From: BOB MATTESON To: MARK LAMPKIN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 7844 (REPLY TO MSG #7809) Thanks for the info on Matra. I have "burned" the 8052 tiny BASIC into a 2764 and run it on a non-BASIC 8052AH from JAMECO. It works fine - the only drawback is the apparent inability to burn EPROMS. From looking at the code, the EPROM routines must be executed of of internal code ROM in order to work. Msg#: 8157 *GENERAL* 10/06/88 21:37:46 From: MARK LAMPKIN To: BOB MATTESON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 8009 (REPLY TO MSG #7809) Bob...I'll take a look at the source code...It's been quite a while for me....As I recollect,it is in the source code,though,because looking at whats left of my manual,(sometimes I tend to go berserk while I'm coding),I still see remnants of schematicts to modify the eprom burner for 2716's,32's,128's and EEPROM's.......Mark Msg#: 7851 *GENERAL* 09/25/88 22:45:39 From: KEN HOWELL To: ALL Subj: PHONE INTERFACE 1: Does anyone know of a source for the TLC271 Op amp, or know of an equivalent device? 2: Has anyone constructed the "Phonelink" project from the May and June 1987 Radio Electronics article? I'm adapting the phone line interface for another project and wanted some feedback of experience with the circuit. Msg#: 7852 *GENERAL* 09/25/88 22:46:55 From: KEN HOWELL To: ALL Subj: SOURCE FOR MECHANICAL PARTS What is a good source for small gears and the like such as might be used in robotics or on the business end of control electronics? Mail order is what I'm after. Msg#: 7865 *GENERAL* 09/26/88 13:07:55 From: RICHARD ANDREWS To: KEN HOWELL (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 7852 (SOURCE FOR MECHANICAL PARTS) . Try Stock Drive Products . 2101 Jericho Turnpike . New Hyde Park, NY 11040 . 516-328-0200 . . These folks are a good source of mechanical parts and breadboard kits, they are pretty pricey but you can order A gear and not get grief from them. Msg#: 7866 *GENERAL* 09/26/88 13:14:41 From: RICHARD ANDREWS To: ED NISLEY (Rcvd) Subj: IR CONTROLLER . I just finished reading the IR controller article from the May '87 byte and its given me ideas. What I would like to be able to do is to have some type of IR controller device with a serial port that would allow me to send some character sequence and have the controller play back a particular IR sequence. Is the project described readily changeable to do this? (I'm afraid I already know the answer) . . As an alternative, is there a commercial device that does this? Thanks for your help. Msg#: 8090 *GENERAL* 10/05/88 18:37:44 From: ED NISLEY To: RICHARD ANDREWS (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 7866 (IR CONTROLLER) The answer is exactly as you expected... "Nope!" There are a whole slew of programmable remote controllers on the market, but few of them have a PC connection. The only other one I've heard of is much like the Master Controller, in that it swaps binary files back and forth (I don't quite remember where I saw that one, but I do remember saying "Gosh, that looks familiar!"). In principle, there's nothing too tough about adding an ASCII command set to the remote code, but I suspect Steve would want to turn it into a Real Project; that puts it quite a way down the calendar... For what it's worth, I'm tinkering up a revision of the Master Controller EPROM that fixes a nagging bug with the "Press A Key" remote function. When that hits the BBS Real Soon Now, you'll (finally) be able to send keystroke codes from the PC and have the remote do something useful with them. This isn't quite what you'd like, though. Msg#: 8191 *GENERAL* 10/07/88 12:11:39 From: RICHARD ANDREWS To: ED NISLEY (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 8090 (IR CONTROLLER) . Thanks for the info. I guess I'll just have to wait for it to happen. Msg#: 7876 *GENERAL* 09/27/88 13:00:20 From: CHRIS CONSTANTINIDES To: ANYONE WHO CAN HELP Subj: COMPUTER SCHEMATIC I have a problem with my IBM compatible PC, it is a Corona Data Systems Portable compatible PC model# PPC400-22, that it will go through it memory checkout with no problems but when it goes to access drive A: the PC hangs up. The access light to the drive lights and the drive motor is turning but the computer never stops trying to access drive A:,its forever and ever. I am looking to get my hands on a sevice manual or a phone number of Corona Data systems so I can get a service manual or schematics of the computer board layout. The service center wanted in access of $70/hour to work on the computer, a bit rich for my blood. If anyone has schematics or service info on this computer system please leave me a message with the information. Or if any body has the phone number where I can reach the company it would be much apreciated. I need to try the DDT-51 project out. Thanks. Msg#: 7902 *GENERAL* 09/28/88 11:19:51 From: BILL JAMIESON To: ED NISLEY (Rcvd) Subj: PROBLEMS WITH 8031 EXPERIMENT I'm having trouble with an 8031 experiment in which I follow your experiment rather closely. I have Port 1 hooked up to an LS04 to drive LEDS and by pass caps on 3 of the 5 chips. I use the MAX232 for serial communications. It seems to sequence the LEDS a little but the timing isn't even, though I know the program is sound. Bypass caps are .1uf plus 1 cap across 5v to ground at DC input (22 uf). Tried this on bread board and then latter wire wrapped it to no avail. Please let me know what I might be doing wrong (B_Jamie). Also, the ports seem to be input and output by writting 0's or ff's to them. How does it (the 8031) know if the 0's are to be output or setting up to make bits output.(sound{ a little hazy there doesn't it?). Thank you B_Jamie. Msg#: 7929 *GENERAL* 09/29/88 09:16:19 From: STEVE CIARCIA To: BILL JAMIESON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 7902 (PROBLEMS WITH 8031 EXPERIMENT) I've forwarded your message to Ed Nisley. He's the resident 8031 guru. --Steve Msg#: 8091 *GENERAL* 10/05/88 18:39:08 From: ED NISLEY To: BILL JAMIESON Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 7902 (PROBLEMS WITH 8031 EXPERIMENT) Turns out that the 8031 is even simpler than you expect... For 8031 circuit designs the only port that has special functions is Port 3. Port 1 can be used for ordinary I/O with no conflicts, so there's no possibility of collisions. Writing a zero to a bit turns on the pulldown transistor and drags the output voltage toward ground. For Port 3 pins, it also disables the special function outputs (through a simple AND gate). You can't tell the difference if the special function was ALSO a zero... Writing a one turns off the pulldown transistor and turns on the pullups. Depending on whether the 8031 is an HMOS or CHMOS design, it will trigger a brief pulse of current to "jerk" the voltage up. In any event, the pullup is much weaker than the pulldown. When the pin is a one, the special function output is enabled (remember the AND gate?). If it's calling for a one, you can't tell the difference. In all cases, the special function inputs are active, but they're at the mercy of the output voltage. For example, if you set up INT1 to trigger on a down-going edge, you get an INT1 interrupt when you write a zero to the bit. The ordinary bit inputs are ALSO active all the time. Instructions that do a read/modify/write operation on a port (like SETB and CLR!) read the state of the output latch rather than the pin. Instructions that simply read the port get the instantaneous status of the input pin rather than the latch. So, for example, if you're driving a transistor base directly off the pin, writing a one using SETB P1.0 will turn the transistor on (presuming you've done your homework on the available drive current, which is just about diddly). Reading the port using MOV C,P1.0 will record a zero for the bit because the output voltage is one VBE above ground, which is lower than the logic 1 threshold. But flipping the bit using CPL P1.0 will turn it off because the CPL reads the latch. Make sense? By and large, you're on your honor to use a given pin for only one thing at a time. There are some cases where you can get some interesting and useful results by combining "ordinary" output with the special functions, but you've got to think it through pretty carefully. That's where a good simulator (like AVSIM51 from Avocet) comes in really handy! Msg#: 7922 *GENERAL* 09/28/88 16:38:50 From: MATTHEW LEVINE To: ALL Subj: RS232 CABLE LENGTH I NEED TO KNOW WHAT THE LONGEST " SAFE " LENGTH OF AN RS232 CABLE CAN BE WHEN MADE OUT OF 25 COND. 24AWG RIBBON CABLE . THE APPLICATION I HAVE IN MIND INVOLVES DIRECT CONNECTION OF 2 RS232 PORTS ( 2 DIFF. MACHINES ) FOR DATA FILE X-FER . . THANKS FOR THE HELP, ->->-> MATT <-<-<- Msg#: 7928 *GENERAL* 09/28/88 20:34:09 From: GARY WHITE To: MATTHEW LEVINE (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 7922 (RS232 CABLE LENGTH) It depends on the speed of the transfer, since they are direct connect you can run 19.2Kbps maybe 20 feet depending on the drivers and receivers at each end. The limiting factors are the impedance of the cable, and ribbon isn't as good as sheilded pairs obviously, the speed of the data, and the quality of the drivers at each end. I have run 9.6Kbps on ribbon about 40 feet, and about 150 feet on sheilded twisted pair (although the specs say the max is only 50 feet). Necessity is the mother of invention. The best way to find out is to give it a try, starting with slower speeds (1200 - 2400) and work up to the higher speeds or you start getting errors, what ever comes first. I recommend using an error correcting protocol however. Regards, Gary Msg#: 7930 *GENERAL* 09/29/88 09:22:15 From: STEVE CIARCIA To: MATTHEW LEVINE (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 7922 (RS232 CABLE LENGTH) The spec for RS-232 is 50 feet max. Obviously you can go further at slow data rates but at that point it would be better to consider RS-422 instead. --Steve Msg#: 8977 *GENERAL* 10/22/88 17:18:54 From: STEVE SMITH To: MATTHEW LEVINE (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 7922 (RS232 CABLE LENGTH) Am running a program call DESK LINK that connect via RS232 ports on PC and allows file transfers. Run 100K+ bps over close to 100 feet of telephone wire. Msg#: 8999 *GENERAL* 10/23/88 08:38:31 From: MATTHEW LEVINE To: STEVE SMITH Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 8977 (RS232 CABLE LENGTH) ARE YOU USING SOME SORT OF MODEM OR ARE YOU SENDING THE RS-232 SIGNAL DIRECTLY OVER THE LINE ? THANKS , ->->-> MATT <-<-<- Msg#: 7926 *GENERAL* 09/28/88 18:29:24 From: MICHAEL ARDAI To: ALL USERS Subj: BLINKING LIGHTS I just picked up the front panel from a PDP-10, and I would like to get it to blink... It has ~130 12-volt LEDs and ~70 lighted pushbuttons. Any ideas for some good (and affordable) random blinking circuits? I have been thinking of counters driving 1-of-n decoders with the outputs going to the LEDs in random order, and driving them from 555s at different frequencies, but I don't know if this is the best way to go. Thanks. /mike Msg#: 7942 *GENERAL* 09/30/88 10:39:05 From: JEFF JENSEN To: ALL Subj: UNIX BASED FAX SYSTEMS Is anyone aware of a PC fax product (hardware and software) for use on a UNIX or XENIX operating system. Our company needs to fax several hundred pages of material (host generated reports, letters, etc.) to multiple clients on a daily basis. Currently, the reports are printed and manually fed into fax machines, but the window for faxing and the workload are quickly converging. We are investigating DOS fax systems, but they are single line, single threaded. Hence the need for multiple fax boards per PC. If you have any thoughts, leave a note or call 8-5, CST 1-800-228-9079, xtension 7785. - - Jeff Msg#: 7948 *GENERAL* 09/30/88 12:07:44 From: JOE NEIL To: ALL Subj: AT BUS SPECS I need some help in locating a book on interfacing to the AT bus. I have a fairly good book by Lewis Eggebrecht on the PC, but I need more detail on the AT bus. Any suggestions are appreciated. Joe Neil Msg#: 7950 *GENERAL* 09/30/88 13:53:44 From: RON WILSON To: JEFF JENSEN (Rcvd) Subj: UNIX BASED FAX SYSTEMS The only existing solution I know about is for Wang's version of UNIX running on Wang PCs. I think the product is one of Wang's. If nothing else they may be able to tell you some places to look. . Otherwise, there are software only solutions that can use ordinary modems, but these, of course, are limited to 1200/2400 buad. Msg#: 7966 *GENERAL* 10/03/88 15:19:35 From: JEFF JENSEN To: RON WILSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 7950 (UNIX BASED FAX SYSTEMS) Do you know if the software only solutions allow multiple fax calls simultaneously? That combined with either uniquely addressed 12/2400 modems or multiple fax boards could work. Thanks for the reply. - - Jeff Msg#: 7969 *GENERAL* 10/03/88 15:35:41 From: RON WILSON To: JEFF JENSEN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 7966 (UNIX BASED FAX SYSTEMS) Since UNIX is a general multiprocessing system, you can invoke the program multiple times using a different modem device for each invokation. (Although, some software packages are totally obnoxious and need to be lied to in order to invoke multiple copies) Msg#: 8043 *GENERAL* 10/04/88 18:30:25 From: JEFF JENSEN To: RON WILSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 7969 (UNIX BASED FAX SYSTEMS) Thanks, Ron. I will see what Wang has to say for themselves. In the meantime, if you run across any other Unix/Xenix products, give a shout. - - Jeff Msg#: 7954 *GENERAL* 09/30/88 15:16:51 From: BILL CURLEW To: ERIC SCHMIEMAN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 4867 (PC KEYBOARD) Hi, As all thing go, I am also late on the article. The crux is to use a microcomputer to simulate the keyboard control signals. This is NOT what the article is about. The article relates to transforming the IBM keyboard signals into parrellel and serial ASCII charactors, so that the keyboard can be used in othe systems, (like my Franklin ACE). Give me a call at (203)-954-8262 during normal business hours, and I'll see if we can exchange info on how the simulation is done. I already have a box that transmits key codes that I use to allow a Kodak Carosel hand control to run a presentation product similar to Storyboard. It was written for a Z-8, and I would be glad to discuss it with you and ship the code. (It is for the MODE 1 keyboard, however). Bill Msg#: 7957 *GENERAL* 09/30/88 18:03:45 From: JEFF KATZ To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: IR SENSORS I have a mobile robot with Polaroid ultrasonic sensors. These were made as a general application of the automatic range finding equipment used on autofocus cameras. Now that autofocusing is done by infrared triangulation (except for exotic things like Canon EOS), do you know of any kits or devices that use this method for experimenters ? P.S. I think I met you once at General Digital. Len was trying to hire me. P.S.++ I have sent in an order for Circuit Cellar INK. Good luck in your new venture. Msg#: 7970 *GENERAL* 10/03/88 15:47:06 From: RON WILSON To: JEFF KATZ (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 7957 (IR SENSORS) Just a comment: You should continue to the ultrasonic sensors even with the IR sensors. The U sensors provide better "protection" against running into obsticals. . Also, I once built an IR triangularizer (sp?): The mechanics and optics needed to make the thing are sufficiently complex to offset all but one advantage of IR over U sensing: IR sensing can provide higher detail for mapping applications (and navagation by map comparision) Msg#: 7971 *GENERAL* 10/03/88 15:54:34 From: STEVE CIARCIA To: JEFF KATZ (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 7957 (IR SENSORS) The TO01 units sold by CCI are essentially the poloroid units (but cheaper). Sorry, TI01. I am familiar with IR motion sensing but not ranging. Wish I could help but sorry. What has your experience been. --Steve PS. Yes, about 10 years ago I worked for General Digital. Perhaps we did meet. Msg#: 8383 *GENERAL* 10/11/88 15:43:09 From: JEFF KATZ To: RON WILSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 7970 (IR SENSORS) Thanks for the reply. I have been doing some complicated projects with the Polaroid sensors, and would be interested in your IR triangulation work. I am after better resolution, and more reliable ranging, so the IR is the way to go. The camera manufacturers and the chip makers are both reluctant to discuss the topic. The camera people in the US don't know the details, and the IC makers won't talk about custom chips. Would appreciate hearing from you again. Msg#: 8414 *GENERAL* 10/12/88 11:11:47 From: RON WILSON To: JEFF KATZ Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 8383 (IR SENSORS) I'll start digging up my notes. If your wish, leave me your US Mail address and I'll send you copies of whatever I find. Msg#: 7974 *GENERAL* 10/03/88 16:33:04 From: BILL JAMIESON To: ED NISLEY (Rcvd) Subj: 8031 SCHEMATIC ERROR I Finally found the problem with my design. Had trouble with the device working halfway on some eproms and not at all on others. Seems the schematic from the August issue of Byte (Page 242,243 Figure 2) had a problem. Pin 1 of IC3 (2764) needs to go to 5 volts not ground. I made a message to Steve C and he forwarded it to you but haven't recieved a reply. Still am wondering how the ports work though. I know you send a #0 to port 1 if you want to configure it as an output. And #FF if you want input, but want if you want to output #FF ? How does it (the CPU) know the difference between data and a port command? Will wait for your answer -- B_Jamie. Msg#: 8002 *GENERAL* 10/04/88 02:51:11 From: JASON FARQUE' To: BILL JAMIESON Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 7974 (8031 SCHEMATIC ERROR) . Bill, . . I'm not familiar with the 8031-8051 series of chips (Yet), but if it's anything like the Zilog Z8-Z80 set, you don't write the #00h and #FFh to the port itself, you write it to a Port Mode register. This is a register in which you set the mode of the port you are going to use. It is associated like this: . . Mode Register: (1111,1111) . Port 0: ( INPUT ) . . Mode Register: (0000,0000) . Port 0: ( OUTPUT ) . . As you can see, with a method like this, you can use the lines mix 'n' match as input and output in the same port. In other words, you could set the mode up like this: (0000,1100) and use only TWO of the lines in that port for inputs, the other six as outputs. You could even alternate them as inputs/outputs in your program. . . You're right. The port itself wouldn't be able to tell if you were writing #FFh to change the mode, or as data. . . . Jason Farque' . . . Msg#: 7993 *GENERAL* 10/04/88 00:23:12 From: KEN HOWELL To: ALL Subj: GROUND CONNECTIONS. This is a pretty simple one, I think. I'm making a "parallel port expander" for my Amiga. Standard (more or less) parallel port, that I'm attaching a series of 8255's to. The port has a number of ground lines, and one 5 volt power line. The 5 volt power line doesn't have enough capacity to run the 8255's. How do I tie the external and the internal power connections together, without shorting something out? Do I just tie the ground connections together and power the external circuitry with my auxiliary power (transformer, bridge, caps and regulator)? -Ken. Msg#: 8029 *GENERAL* 10/04/88 13:24:15 From: RON WILSON To: KEN HOWELL (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 7993 (GROUND CONNECTIONS.) That's precisely what you do: power the add on with its own supply, connecting only the (signal) grounds together. Msg#: 8052 *GENERAL* 10/04/88 21:42:53 From: KEN HOWELL To: RON WILSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 8029 (GROUND CONNECTIONS.) Is there a significant difference between the signal ground and the frame ground? What happens if they're coupled together? --Ken. Msg#: 8074 *GENERAL* 10/05/88 10:42:08 From: RON WILSON To: KEN HOWELL (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 8052 (GROUND CONNECTIONS.) Usually signal ground and one side of the power supply are connected together (CKA: power supply ground) The power supply "ground" isn't always connected to "AC ground" or "frame ground" - usually it is. Many electronic devices don't have any connection to "AC ground." Does this help you? Msg#: 8642 *GENERAL* 10/16/88 12:21:37 From: STEVE CIARCIA To: RON WILSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 8029 (GROUND CONNECTIONS.) In my experience, connecting AC/Frame ground to signal ground is a good way to introduce noise. If it has to be done for safety purposes, I only do it where the line cord comes in. Ultimately, what gets connected or not is a combination of experience and black magic --- both things that you don't learn in engineeringschool. --Steve Msg#: 8722 *GENERAL* 10/17/88 15:31:35 From: RON WILSON To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 8642 (GROUND CONNECTIONS.) When I build a device, I either use or build a power supply that isolates the device under power from the power line and isolate the power supply housing from the over all housing (that is, only the power supply and its housing are ground to "main" ground). Then I call one output from the supply "circuit ground," }i which is also used as "signal ground" when inter connecting with other devices. This circuit ground might also be connected to any shielding I might need around the circuit itself. This approach prevents ground loops from being caused by my devices. Of course, there are times when I have to connect to "main" ground. However, I prefer to have a cluster of equipment be grounded to a single point and isolate clusters as much as possible. Msg#: 7994 *GENERAL* 10/04/88 00:27:28 From: JEFF KERNER To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: XT CLONE STUFF DEAR STEVE, FOR SOME TIME NOW I'VE WANTED TO ACESS MY COMPUTER'S PROGRAMS AND FILES FROM MY GIRLFRIEND'S APARTMENT (WHICH IS NEXT DOOR TO MY APARTMENT.) SOMETIMES I'LL BRING OVER MY WHOLE SYSTEM WHEN I HAVE A LOT OF WORK TO DO. THIS CAUSES SOME PROBLEMS, HOWEVER AS MY XT CLONE, MONITOR, PRINTER, AND MODEM TAKE UP QUITE A BIT OF ROOM. WHAT WOULD WORK BETTER (AND TAKE UP LESS ROOM) WOULD BE TO HAVE A DATA TERMINAL THAT COULD SIT ON AN END TABLE. A CONVENTIONAL TERMINAL MIGHT WORK FOR SOME PROGRAMS, BUT OTHERS REQUIRE INPUT FROM THE ALT OR FUNCTION KEYS WHICH CONVENTIONAL TERMINALS LACK. I REALIZE THAT IBM-COMPATIBLE TERMINALS ARE AVAILABLE (KIMTRON AND LINK TO NAME TWO...), BUT $400.+ IS A LITTLE STEEP. I WAS EXAMINING THE TERMITE ST ARTICLE YOU WROTE. ALTHOUGH I CAN EASILY CONVERT AN EXTRA CLONE KEYBOARD FROM SERIAL TO PARALLEL, THE TERMITE ONLY ACCEPTS A 7-BIT KEY CODE. AT ANY RATE, THE HARDWARE CAN PROBABLY BE WORKED AROUND, BUT THE ROM SOFTWARE WOULD NEED TO BE RE-WRITTEN TO ACCOMODATE THE EXTRA KEY CODES. ANY IDEAS ON AN EASIER ALTERNATIVE? ON ANOTHER SUBJECT, I'M BUILDING AN INTERFACE BOARD FOR MY CLONE, AND NEED TO DECODE 16-32 SEQUENTIAL ADDRESS LOCATIONS. WHERE CAN I FIND A LISTING OF UNUSED ADDRESSES IN THE 1 MEG. RANGE THAT WONT CAUSE INTERFERANC WITH OTHER DEVICES (RAM, I/O, ETC.)? I'VE SEEN MEMORY MAPS OF THE GENERIC CLONE, BUT THEY OFTEN SEEM INCOMPLETE. AREN`T THERE LOCATIONS THAT SIMPLY AREN'T USED? THANK'S STEVE!!!! -JEFF KERNER Msg#: 8017 *GENERAL* 10/04/88 07:45:07 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: JEFF KERNER (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 7994 (XT CLONE STUFF) In trying to connect a terminal to your IBM, I think you're worrying too much about the wrong end. The bigger issue is whether you can coax whatever program you're using to use the serial port for all console communications instead of the built-in display and keyboard. Most programs these days do direct writes to the screen memory and access the keyboard through BIOS calls. Such programs wouldn't work worth beans with any terminal, regardless of keys supported. What might work, though, is using something like Procomm in host mode. Then you can use a terminal and talk to the IBM through the serial port with the smallest chance of conflict. You still won't be able to run word processors or similar programs, but most command line oriented compilers or assemblers should work. The terminal you use isn't much of an issue. You won't be able to simulate function keys or ALT sequences, so 7-bit ASCII should be all you need. I would leave a public message asking about free I/O space. There are people using this board who have far more IBM experience than we have around here. Msg#: 8030 *GENERAL* 10/04/88 13:35:24 From: RON WILSON To: JEFF KERNER (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 7994 (XT CLONE STUFF) Another alternative: use extensions on your keyboard and monitor. I have done this myself. The keyboard seems to work fine for cable lengths upto 30 feet. But, for the monitor, you should consider using a monchrome composite Mmonitor connected to the composite output of you video adaptor (assuming it has one) - the high frequency of the video makes TTL monitors unreliable with more than 10 feet of cable (not to mention the RF noise generated). Monochrome composite video can usually going about 50 feet and still produce a decent 80 col text display. . Another possiblity: get a TV cart for the computer and arrange your cables so you can easily disconnect the printer (and whatever else doesn't fit on the cart). Msg#: 8064 *GENERAL* 10/05/88 01:24:20 From: JEFF KERNER To: KEN DAVIDSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 8017 (XT CLONE STUFF) The "CTTY" command can be used from DOS or a batch file to redirect console I/O to either the console or to the serial ports (com1; com2, etc.) While the serial port has control of the "CON" I/O, the computer's keyboard and display are inoperative. I've seen this used, but like I said, some of those terminals get pretty expensive: full retail is near $900. -Jeff P.S. When editing here, is it possible to re-number a message in order to insert text _before_ a given line? Msg#: 8065 *GENERAL* 10/05/88 01:35:59 From: JEFF KERNER To: RON WILSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 8030 (XT CLONE STUFF) You know, I never really thought about trying to run the keyboard that far (approx. 60 feet.) I do a lot of NTSC video stuff at work, so I know what the loss can look like at >50 feet! ...Makes my eyes hurt! :-) Since the keyboard is serial (of sorts) that shouldn't be a real problem even at worst; nice slow data rate. I'll still continue to ponder the problem as I may have another use for such an animal in the not-to-distant future. I'll keep you posted, Ron! -Jeff Msg#: 8075 *GENERAL* 10/05/88 10:46:20 From: RON WILSON To: JEFF KERNER (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 8065 (XT CLONE STUFF) I don't suppose theres's any way to go directly between the appartments? (preferably something like the cable TV or antenea outlets being back to back - though you could probably install "dummy" phone or TV outlets back to back on a commen wall) Good luck. Msg#: 8097 *GENERAL* 10/05/88 18:50:53 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: JEFF KERNER (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 8064 (XT CLONE STUFF) I wish there was a little better way to edit messages. String replacement is fairly powerful, but you can't (as far as I can tell) insert lines or line breaks. We'll have to see what 2.1 holds in store (should be coming soon). Msg#: 8109 *GENERAL* 10/05/88 22:33:59 From: JEFF KERNER To: RON WILSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 8075 (XT CLONE STUFF) I've already routed the telephone lines so that her's rings at my apartment and vise-versa (they aslo work normally.) Currently, I'm going through the closets, but I may use a "dummy" TV wall plate for this application. The only other _real_ alternative would be to go through the ceiling, but I don't enjoy breathing fiberglass insulation... Msg#: 8000 *GENERAL* 10/04/88 01:02:14 From: ERIC POOLE To: ALL Subj: ECPA '86 Anyone know where I can get the full text of the Electronic Communications Privacy Act of 1986, in machine readable form (either on disk or to download from a BBS someplace)? Thanks . . . . . ep Msg#: 8022 *GENERAL* 10/04/88 12:22:46 From: BOB PADDOCK To: ERIC POOLE (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 8000 (ECPA '86) I'll upload the copy I have of the first draft, it wasn't substatualy changed from what was enacted. If you want the real thing see if your local cort house has a copy Title 18 USC section 2510(8). Look for Privacy.BZL in the Other Section. Msg#: 8059 *GENERAL* 10/04/88 23:37:55 From: ERIC POOLE To: BOB PADDOCK (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 8022 (ECPA '86) Thanks, Bob, I'll go take a look. Msg#: 8116 *GENERAL* 10/05/88 23:51:47 From: ERIC POOLE To: BOB PADDOCK (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 8022 (ECPA '86) Bob, I looked around for PRIVACY.BZL (first draft ECPA '86 text), and can't find it. I've been having a little trouble navigating around this BBS anyway, don't get to check in very often, so if it's here and I just can't find it, could you point me in the right direction? Thanks. . . . . . ep Msg#: 8129 *GENERAL* 10/06/88 08:47:23 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: ERIC POOLE (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 8116 (ECPA '86) You can't find it because I haven't made it public yet. If you had been able to find it, you'd just be back the next day asking what a .BZL file is. The Z in the middle means it is crunched using a CP/M crunching utility. I have to uncrunch the file before posting it so MessDOS people know how to handle it. Msg#: 8145 *GENERAL* 10/06/88 14:12:51 From: BOB PADDOCK To: KEN DAVIDSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 8129 (ECPA '86) I uploaded "UNCR232.ARC" for UnCrunching under MS-DOS. Crunched the .BZL file is is 36K uncrunced it is almost 80K. Why can MS-DOS do some thing that CP/M has been doing for a vary long time??? Msg#: 8163 *GENERAL* 10/06/88 22:26:32 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: BOB PADDOCK (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 8145 (ECPA '86) Now that you mention it, I remember seeing that. I'll go ahead and post the crunched file, perhaps with a note about having to use UNCR. Thanks. I guess most people would just use ARC to compress even one file (actually, I may repost the file as an ARC file since theoretically you should get the same compression and it will generate fewer questions). Msg#: 8170 *GENERAL* 10/07/88 00:30:58 From: ERIC POOLE To: KEN DAVIDSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 8129 (ECPA '86) Oh, I see. Yes, I know what the Z in the middle means, and you're right, I wouldn't have been able to handle it. Thanks. . . . . . ep Msg#: 8176 *GENERAL* 10/07/88 07:10:50 From: BOB PADDOCK To: KEN DAVIDSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 8163 (ECPA '86) Let me know if does come out smaller, or at least the same. Msg#: 8042 *GENERAL* 10/04/88 18:21:22 From: MICHAEL SKUCZAS To: KEN DAVIDSON (Rcvd) Subj: GT180 Ken, I haven't said much since the memory situation has been so pricey. ce I got the application notes from Hitachi, I been doing a bit of it seems I can get away with one quarter of the memory and be able to suspport the Med res mode on the Atari ST. To goto multisync I would use one half the memory. Since my intentions are to turn this commerical, I'll leave it up you and anyone else to figure out how I am going to do . C U L8TR Michael Skuczas Msg#: 8055 *GENERAL* 10/04/88 21:56:26 From: KEN HOWELL To: ALL Subj: TIMELINE, INC. A number of you may have seen ads that "Timeline, Inc." has been running in Byte and Computer Shopper. They had advertised a 40 X 2 line LCD display at 2 for $25. I couldn't resist and ordered 4 of them. My order came in fine (promptly, too), but there is a small hitch. Timeline advertises these displays as having a (appx) 4 X 1 X 1/4 inch dimension, and having the ribbon cable connector attached. The ones I got are Hitachi LM018L units, with dimensions of (appx) 7 x 1 x 1/4. There is no ribbon cable connected, but the pc connections are plated through and ready for soldering. I also got about 40 pages of documentation with the display, and it seems to be a good deal. Especially when similar displays are priced at about $39. I do have a question about LCD displays in general, though. The specs list a VCC, VDD and a Vo power connection. Vo is the backplane connection, and the docs show that it is powered by connection through a 10k - 20k resistor between the 5 volt VDD and 0 volt VSS. Like this: VDD ------------------- X X Vo ---------->X X X VSS ------------------- The specs also say that the duty of Vo should be 1/16. Here's the question: 1/16 of what? Help appreciated. --Ken. Msg#: 8060 *GENERAL* 10/05/88 00:03:20 From: ERIC POOLE To: KEN HOWELL (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 8055 (TIMELINE, INC.) Hi, Ken. Vo is the viewing angle adjustment voltage. You adjust the potentiometer through some range (that differs from mfr to mfr and from model to model) and that changes the angle at which you get best contrast when viewing the display. The 1/16 means roughly 1/16 of the voltage between Vss and Vdd; in other words, if Vss = 0V and Vdd = 5V, then Vo will be 1/16 of 5V or about 0.3V. That seems a little low to me, by the way, but far be it from me to second-guess the mfr . Normally you would connect a potentiometer of say 10K ohms so that one end is at 0V, the wiper is connected to Vo, and the other end goes through about a 68K fixed resistor to Vdd. This would give you a Vo adjustment range of 0V to about 0.7V, which should give you the full range of useable viewing angle adjustments. Hope this helps. . . . . . ep Msg#: 8067 *GENERAL* 10/05/88 01:56:19 From: KEN HOWELL To: ERIC POOLE (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 8060 (TIMELINE, INC.) It really helps. My concern was with the "duty" part of the spec. I shouldn't have to add a occillator to switch on and off the Vo power, should I? --Ken. Msg#: 8110 *GENERAL* 10/05/88 22:40:00 From: ERIC POOLE To: KEN HOWELL (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 8067 (TIMELINE, INC.) No, not at all. It's simply a DC bias voltage. That "duty" business was probably because of a not-particularly-accurate translation from Japanese. . . . . . ep Msg#: 8118 *GENERAL* 10/06/88 01:10:17 From: KEN HOWELL To: ERIC POOLE (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 8110 (TIMELINE, INC.) Thanks a lot for the information. Saves me a lot of grief. They actually look like pretty good displays, and have a *lot* of built in functions and characters. The joys of surplus electonic items. ..... Msg#: 8066 *GENERAL* 10/05/88 01:46:00 From: JON CARMICHAEL To: ALL Subj: CONTINUUM BBS The Continuum BBS in San Francisco is for Motion Control/Data Acquisition interests. For more information about the products of Computer Continuum, look in advertisers index in the back of any BYTE magazine. Give it a call at 415-755-1524 (Pursuitable) JONC Sysop Msg#: 8072 *GENERAL* 10/05/88 06:28:43 From: RON BEAN To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: EXPANSION BUS I have a Datavue Spark laptop which has a 100-pin expansion bus connector on the back (I have the pinout-- 40 ground lines!). I assume it is buffered internally-- can I just wire it to a passive backplane, or do I need some buffering on the other end as well? Are there commercial boards to do this? Does it depend on the length of the cable? (I was thinking of 18" ribbon cables, but I could live with 6"-8"). I know some other laptops have similar connectors. Also, it uses a pair of connectors that look like the inside of a Centronics printer cable, but there's no shell around them and the pins are smaller (50 pins instead of 36). Is this a common item, or do you know where I could find them? Msg#: 8078 *GENERAL* 10/05/88 12:04:33 From: DAVID SACKS To: ALL Subj: DEBUGGERS help ... am curently using turboc 1.5 and am trying to find a good symbolic (runtime) debugger that will (hopefully) allow for breakpoints as well as viewing variables and changing core. does anyone out there know of any such creature that will do. prefer public domain but will consider (reasonably priced) other. thanks to all. Msg#: 8082 *GENERAL* 10/05/88 16:37:22 From: RICHARD ANDREWS To: DAVID SACKS (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 8078 (DEBUGGERS) . Try Borland's latest version of C which supposedly is available now. It has a debugger similar to Microsoft's Codeview. Msg#: 8111 *GENERAL* 10/05/88 22:48:00 From: ERIC POOLE To: DAVID SACKS (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 8078 (DEBUGGERS) Check out the shareware program TCDEBUG; it's available on CompuServe, in the Borland forum (BPROGB). If you aren't into CompuServe, it's also available among other places on the Leo Technology BBS at (603) 432-2517, 300-1200-2400, 8-N-1, 24 hrs 7 days. Filename is TCDEBUG.ARC, and it's in the Programming / Languages library. . . . . Eric Poole Msg#: 8114 *GENERAL* 10/05/88 23:42:10 From: JACK PERGAL To: DAVID SACKS (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 8078 (DEBUGGERS) I've seen a file around that explains how to use codeview with tc runtime files. Probably the best idea that has been suggested is to uprde to TC V2.0 and get the built in debugger. . Jack Msg#: 8324 *GENERAL* 10/10/88 20:10:04 From: DAVID SACKS To: RICHARD ANDREWS (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 8082 (DEBUGGERS) richard -- we got their new version (2.0) and it does include a debugger. unfortunately it doesn't do everything we need. for example, we are spawning modules and want to follow them but, alas we are unable. other- wise their debugger is quite nice. i appericate the acknowledgement just the same. thanks much Msg#: 8326 *GENERAL* 10/10/88 20:12:20 From: DAVID SACKS To: ERIC POOLE (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 8111 (DEBUGGERS) eric -- thanks much. i'll check it out asap. will probably check out your bbs as well. thanks much. if i can be of any assistance let me know. Reply has been deleted Msg#: 8085 *GENERAL* 10/05/88 18:10:57 From: BYRON BLAKE To: JEFF JENSEN (Rcvd) Subj: MACRO ASSEMBLER FOR THE 8088 Jeff (and others), I am currently taking a class in C-language. At this point I am doing my work on an IBM XT (640K, TWIN 360K DSDD w/ 30 MEG ST238R, IBM BIOS, 4.77 to 6.66 MHZ). I have choosen the SmallC compiler to experiment with. This shareware program compiled the C source into ASSEMBLY (.ASM) code. Most C compilers compile the source into C object code that this later linked into an .EXE. I am currently for a shareware/frereware/public domain MACRO assembler for the 8088-2 intel processor. I did notice a Z80 MACRO assembler in the ile are on this system. Any recommendations, uploads, advise, or comment would be greatly appreciated. I would like to stick with the SmallC program and use a macro assembler to execute the .ASM code. Thanks, Byron Blake Msg#: 8101 *GENERAL* 10/05/88 18:57:41 From: JEFF JENSEN To: BYRON BLAKE (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 8085 (MACRO ASSEMBLER FOR THE 8088) Have you looked at CHASM (CHeap ASseMbler)? There may also be other good PD 808x assemblers around. If the PC-SIG contains it in the first 1000 disks, I can probably find it for you. Any one else have ideas? - - Jeff Msg#: 8113 *GENERAL* 10/05/88 23:30:14 From: BYRON BLAKE To: JEFF JENSEN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 8101 (MACRO ASSEMBLER FOR THE 8088) Jeff, I will be d/l a copy of CHASM.ARC this evening and will let you know of the ooutcome. Does Microsoft market a non-shareware (re: commercial) assembler product? Byron Msg#: 8115 *GENERAL* 10/05/88 23:49:54 From: ERIC POOLE To: BYRON BLAKE (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 8085 (MACRO ASSEMBLER FOR THE 8088) Byron, Actually, most C compilers *used* to compile just down to assembly language, and you had to use an assembler to go the rest of the way. Many of them still work that way, as you have found out. Only relatively recently have very many compilers come out that compile down to .OBJ files. Another reply suggests CHASM, but I don't believe CHASM is a *macro* assembler (could be wrong on this). So if you need a macro assembler, try Eric Issacson's shareware A86 assembler / D86 debugger. It's supposed to be as complete as MASM and significantly faster. It should be in one of the libraries here, but if it isn't, I have it in the Programming / Languages library on the free Leo Technology BBS at (603) 432-2517 (300/1200/2400, 8-N-1, 24 hrs 7 days). . . . . . Eric Poole Msg#: 8142 *GENERAL* 10/06/88 14:01:27 From: JEFF JENSEN To: BYRON BLAKE (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 8113 (MACRO ASSEMBLER FOR THE 8088) Eric has the handle on macro assemblers--I don't belive CHASM is macro. Microsoft sells MASM, probably (lets see if this raises anyones hackles) the industry standard. They also have two C products. Borland has Turbo C and a new macro assembler. All of these cost $. - - Jeff Msg#: 8148 *GENERAL* 10/06/88 20:07:18 From: BYRON BLAKE To: ERIC POOLE (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 8115 (MACRO ASSEMBLER FOR THE 8088) Eric, CHASM will assemble the .ASM output from SmallCompiler and the file is executable as .COM afterwards. However, you must agree that writing the C source, compiling the C source with SmallC, then using a macro assembler to get to executable code is a little time consuming. Don't think that I dont appreciate the old ways, as I was an avid 8'' diskette CP/M-80 user not so long ago. Those were the days when someone, accidentially or otherwise uploaded a program to a BBS that was libraried, crunched, and then librared again! Thanks for the suggestions, if I don't locate A86 or something similiar in the enxt few days I'll give your BBS a call. Again, thank yuo for your reply. Best wishes. Byron, ARS KA1ILI Msg#: 8149 *GENERAL* 10/06/88 20:09:02 From: BYRON BLAKE To: JEFF JENSEN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 8142 (MACRO ASSEMBLER FOR THE 8088) I believe MASM and Microsoft C, as well as Quick C are in the hundreds of dollars. Microsoft C is probably around 495.00$ but I do not know for sure. Anyone have any not-so-obsolete Macro Assemblers? Thanks Jeff Byron, KA1ILI Msg#: 8167 *GENERAL* 10/06/88 23:46:56 From: JACK PERGAL To: BYRON BLAKE (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 8149 (MACRO ASSEMBLER FOR THE 8088) I think you can get Turbo C or Quick C compilers for under a hundred bucks. You get the integrated editor,compiler linker and other stuff. The problem with Small C is that it's a limited subset of the C language and doesn't have any of the ANSI C standards implemented. But if your on a tight budget It'll have to do. . Jack Msg#: 8168 *GENERAL* 10/07/88 00:05:16 From: BYRON BLAKE To: JACK PERGAL (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 8167 (MACRO ASSEMBLER FOR THE 8088) Jack, I appreciate your reply. The budget is not the problem here. I do a lot of programming for myself in QuickBasic, GWBASIC, and a multitude of other basics primarily for IBM XT/AT class machines. I enrolled in a C course a at a local community college. The class is using MixC, a commericial product? In any event, copies are not permitted. So I d/l the only shareware product I found, SmallC. Unlike most other compilers, SmallC compiles your source code: main () int a,i,g,f f=0 a=0 i=5 /*pardon I forgot the semicolons*/ for (i=1;i<=8;i++) { n+=1 total+=n; /* and so on, please my syntax is POOR*\ } anyway the above source might be called TEST.C. I execute the smallC compiler CPC.EXE, CPC.EXE asks for input file name (TEST.C) and creates the compiled program (assuming no errors, if errors are detected I do not make the compiled program) TEST.ASM, the .ASM is assembler. THen I load the only quasi-assembler I have CHASM.COM, CHASM will turn TEST.ASM into TEST.COM. This works about 20% of the time and for a hacker (in the good sense please) like me, I type about 40wpm and don't look at what I am doing, I run into plenty of problems. The MIXC I tried alsmost always gets runtime errors after linking. I have the DOS 3.3 linker and PLINK86.EXE, but PLINK86.EXE came without instructions, so even if I was to get a compiler that made .OBJ files instead of .ASM files I might still have some difficulty. In general I run on an 8088-2 and occassionally a 80286 machines MS-DOS based. I noticed a Z80 MACRO ASSEMBLER on this board in the IBM FILES section, would this work on the 8088-2? Byron, ARS KA1ILI Msg#: 8177 *GENERAL* 10/07/88 07:18:03 From: BOB PADDOCK To: BYRON BLAKE (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 8085 (MACRO ASSEMBLER FOR THE 8088) Why not use Small-MAC the MACro assembler written in Small-C? You can get it from Dr Dobbs for a resonable price. I have the CP/M version of Small-MAC 2.1 if that is of any use to you (I don't think it is, at least with out modification). Have you ever looked at SLR's assemblers and linkers, I know they are the fastest by far, and they even sell for a resonable price? Msg#: 8182 *GENERAL* 10/07/88 09:05:56 From: RON WILSON To: BYRON BLAKE (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 8149 (MACRO ASSEMBLER FOR THE 8088) The "personal" version of Manx's Aztec C compiler has a macro assembler and cost about $199 (at least it did about a year ago....) Msg#: 8197 *GENERAL* 10/07/88 16:06:16 From: BYRON BLAKE To: BOB PADDOCK (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 8177 (MACRO ASSEMBLER FOR THE 8088) Bob, You are correct, the CP/M version of the Marco Assembler is of no use to me. The ZMAC.ARC package I d/l from this BBS a few days ago, assembles all of the .ASM files that cam with the package (8088 or 8086 based, I forgot which) and those assembled programs run on my intel 8088-2. However, after I write a C source (known good from a book, or from a try at school on MixC) and after the SmallC compiler (cpc.arc) compiles, indicates no errors found, then I assemble the compilation and the assembled compilation will not RUN. Dr. Dobbs sounds like an alternative. Perhaps I'll investigate that. Thank you for your reply Bob. Sincerely yours, Byron Blake, KA1ILI Msg#: 8198 *GENERAL* 10/07/88 16:07:34 From: BYRON BLAKE To: RON WILSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 8182 (MACRO ASSEMBLER FOR THE 8088) Ron, Gup! $199.00 is a bit steep, sounds like a MircoSoft program...I'll continue to search the BBSes for shareware, and if I do not get any satisfaction in a week I'll have to go commercial. Thank you for your reply Ron. Byron, KA1ILI Msg#: 8213 *GENERAL* 10/07/88 20:26:52 From: JEFF JENSEN To: BYRON BLAKE (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 8149 (MACRO ASSEMBLER FOR THE 8088) I agree with Jack. The Mix C product, as I remember is about the cost of a long download. Buy it and be consistent with the classroom. - - Jeff Msg#: 8220 *GENERAL* 10/08/88 00:10:42 From: BYRON BLAKE To: JEFF JENSEN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 8213 (MACRO ASSEMBLER FOR THE 8088) I hope I sending this in the private mail area, if not DISREGARD. NOT FOR PUBLIC DISSEMATION OR PUBLIC CONSUMPTION. I'll try to get a copy of MIX C for my own educational and private use, NOT FOR RESALE, OR ANY OTHER COMMERCIAL PURPOSES. Byron Msg#: 8374 *GENERAL* 10/11/88 13:01:01 From: RON WILSON To: BYRON BLAKE (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 8198 (MACRO ASSEMBLER FOR THE 8088) The "comercial" version is $499 - but it comes with complete source code for all of the libraries (with Microsoft, you have to pay an extra $500) Msg#: 8448 *GENERAL* 10/12/88 17:58:15 From: BYRON BLAKE To: RON WILSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 8374 (MACRO ASSEMBLER FOR THE 8088) Ron, Thanks for the information. Byron Msg#: 8460 *GENERAL* 10/12/88 20:20:58 From: JASON FARQUE' To: BYRON BLAKE (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 8149 (MACRO ASSEMBLER FOR THE 8088) . Byron, . . What macro assembler are you looking for? What chip? I've purchased Microsoft's little ol' Macro Assembler 5.0, and if you hunt long enough, you can find it for WELL under $100.00. And believe me, with CodeView, and the utilities that come with it nowadays, it's WELL worth the money. I think I paid roughly $85.00 for mine. About $90.00 with shipping. . . . Msg#: 8461 *GENERAL* 10/12/88 20:30:20 From: JASON FARQUE' To: BYRON BLAKE (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 8198 (MACRO ASSEMBLER FOR THE 8088) . Byron.. . . Two messages from me. Neat, huh? MixC, the C that you said you were using in your class is advertised in Byte frequently, and they have a toll free number for ordering, even. (ok, I'll go look, hold on...) . Ok. Page 297 of the October issue of Byte. Mix C. . . Compiler price - $19.95 . Debugger price - $19.95 . Library source - $10.00 . Total cost - $49.90 . . The phone number for Mix Software is 1-800-333-0330. . . Dang. You can hardly go wrong at those prices. . . . Jason . . Msg#: 8522 *GENERAL* 10/13/88 19:32:45 From: BYRON BLAKE To: JASON FARQUE' (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 8460 (MACRO ASSEMBLER FOR THE 8088) Jason, The processor is the Intell 8088-2. Available memory is 640K. I have acquired Turbo C, the need for the MACRO ASSEMBLER is no more. THanks Msg#: 8523 *GENERAL* 10/13/88 19:33:41 From: BYRON BLAKE To: JASON FARQUE' (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 8461 (MACRO ASSEMBLER FOR THE 8088) Well Jason, Not as expensive as I had originally thought. Thank you for your effort and the reply. Sincerely, Byron Blake KA1ILI Msg#: 8632 *GENERAL* 10/15/88 23:50:35 From: ANDREAS DESSOFF To: JASON FARQUE' (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 8460 (MACRO ASSEMBLER FOR THE 8088) As a software consultant and programmer, I have had a few occasions to use Microsoft MASM Version 4 and 5 on clients' projects. As a result, I refuse to spend the price for this product. True, one can find it for less than $100. Also true that this assembler has numerous bugs. Most the time when I run assemblies, I get error messages that are not the result of my assembly input, but rather that of MASM not working right. Assembling the same source program with Version 4 rather than Version 5, the error messages that were produced by 5 may disappear, or not - depending on who knows what. In the same fashion, if it works with 4 it usually won't work with Version 5. I have basically given up on it. Maybe this assembler can be used if one only uses certain features . . . ? In any case, I will not spend my own money on such a deficient product. If someone on this board can recommend a macro assembler for the Intel 8088-80386 that really works, I would be most interested. Price would be of less importance than functionality. I have had to give up on quite a few projects when I kept running into MASMs bugs. By the way, I am not just jumping to conclusions based on my own lack of experience or knowledge . . . I have been a programmer etc. for more than 20 years and know what I speak of. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Andy. Msg#: 9004 *GENERAL* 10/23/88 09:52:08 From: JASON FARQUE' To: BYRON BLAKE Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 8523 (MACRO ASSEMBLER FOR THE 8088) . Effort? What effort? This is a hobby, remember? . . There's never any EFFORT involved in a hobby, IS there? . . Msg#: 8092 *GENERAL* 10/05/88 18:40:04 From: ALEXANDER SCHNEIDER To: ALL Subj: ACTIVE NOISE REMOVAL Today I received CompuServe's magazine "Online Today" in the mail. It includes an article about efforts by Lotus to reduce the noise produced by 4 cylinder engines by use microphones in the headrest and the stereo system, in combination with a trunk-mounted microcomputer (DSP, probably) to generate the out of phase signal. Reportedly, they have acheived a 10 dB drop in perceived noise. This with a Toyota Celica, a Lotus Esprit, and another, unnamed car. I thought this might interest the people who participated in the thread we had a while back about active noise reduction with the aid of computers. I have a question I neglected to ask during the older thread. Why couldn't one simply run the signal from a microphone through some sort of analog inversion circuit (probably not too hard to make) which takes the input voltage and turns it into it's negative? That signal, when run out a speaker, should negate whatever signal is there for effective silence. Alex Msg#: 8104 *GENERAL* 10/05/88 19:09:11 From: JEFF JENSEN To: ALEXANDER SCHNEIDER (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 8092 (ACTIVE NOISE REMOVAL) A friend who followed that thread also found an article relating to the activities of Noise Cancellation Technologies, Great Neck, NY in Electronic Design, August 25, '88, page 30. They are doing essentially what you are talking about, but throw in an "anti noise controller" in the form of a 320C10 DSP. The biggest problem in just inverting the signal and cancelling the noise has to do with variations in the noise characteristics from the point of detection (a microphone) to the point of cancellation. Phase shift will vary depending on the velocity of the exhaust gasses, as would the frequency and amplitude as the engine accellerates or decellerates. Tuning of the engine would cause changes from day to day (weather related), second to second (engine warm-up) and over time (component wear, etc) that make it difficult to assume a certain noise characteristic at a specific engine condition, so a standard cancellation pattern would not work much of the time. It really takes some processing of the noise signal to do a good job cancelling it. - - Jeff Msg#: 8204 *GENERAL* 10/07/88 18:12:01 From: ALEXANDER SCHNEIDER To: JEFF JENSEN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 8104 (ACTIVE NOISE REMOVAL) My question was why can't you just take the input from the mic (say at this instant 3 volts) and negate it to -3 volts and put it out in a properly placed speaker. Alex Msg#: 8215 *GENERAL* 10/07/88 20:39:49 From: JEFF JENSEN To: ALEXANDER SCHNEIDER (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 8204 (ACTIVE NOISE REMOVAL) Proper placement of the speaker will change as the exhaust gas velocity changes. If you sample after the dampening occurs, the system will bounce back and forth between dampening and passing the noise since the microphone picks up sounds some finite time after the dampening occurs. Sampling before dampening may work better but not perfectly. - - Jeff Msg#: 8106 *GENERAL* 10/05/88 20:28:31 From: DON AMATO To: ALL Subj: AIRCRAFT BUS I work for a major airline in the avionics department. I am interested in interfacing a pc to an ARINC 429 bus, such as on the 767 type aircraft, both the high and low speed busses. I have a few pages out of a specification manual, but I need more information. I want to be able to read all the information on the bus and pass it on to the receiving computer, with the option of changing some of the info. There are regular Arinc 429 transmitter and reciever chips, where can I get them and what do they cost?(It would make things a lot easier) Does anyone do the same type of work? Avionics or aircraft? Thank's Don Amato Msg#: 8158 *GENERAL* 10/06/88 21:54:58 From: EDWARD WELLER To: ROBERT MCILVAINE (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 1129 (BSR MODULES) Robert, I am presently setting up a voice input system as for a C3 quadreplegi at as my senior project at Vanderbilt University. It uses the X-10 powerhouse to control most appliances but the abilty to control a home stereo or even a simple recorder would give this person the ability to work as a telephone query recorder. I would love to see more information on your home stereo controller if possible. Thank you. Edward E Weller PO box 3158 sta. B Nashville, TN 37221 Msg#: 8183 *GENERAL* 10/07/88 09:15:14 From: RON WILSON To: ROBERT MCILVAINE (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 1129 (BSR MODULES) I too would like to see info on your stereo controller. (Thanks in advnace) Msg#: 8564 *GENERAL* 10/14/88 11:33:52 From: GARREN DAVIS To: ROBERT MCILVAINE Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 1129 (BSR MODULES) Hi my name is Garren Davis. I to am interested in controlling my stereo using BSR moduals. I was wondering if you could send me a discription of your system showing me how I could do it. I can control just about everything else in the house except the stereo. My address is 29421 Edgewood Rd. San Jaun Capistrano,CA.92675 Or leave my a message. I check in just about every day. Thanks. Msg#: 8159 *GENERAL* 10/06/88 22:01:50 From: EDWARD WELLER To: GARY D PACK Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 48 (BUS INTERFACE) If you are using CMOS chips you might want to power them on battery also. If you don't use them they won't use to much current. CMOS doesn't require too much when static. Msg#: 8172 *GENERAL* 10/07/88 01:14:20 From: BILL STEEN To: ANY Subj: HSC COMPUTER A COUPLE OF YEARS AGO CRC WROTE AND BUILT A CONTROL COMPUTER IS THIS STILL A PRODUCT WOULD LIKE SOME INFO PLEASE THKS BILL Msg#: 8180 *GENERAL* 10/07/88 08:23:46 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: BILL STEEN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 8172 (HSC COMPUTER) The Home Run Control System was manufactured by Micromint for several years, but due to difficulties in obtaining the transformers used to interface with the power line, the unit is no longer being made. (CRC? Who?) Msg#: 8227 *GENERAL* 10/08/88 03:30:37 From: BILL STEEN To: KEN DAVIDSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 8180 (HSC COMPUTER) THKS KEN FOR THE PROMPT REPLY. HOPE CIRCUIT CELLER DESIGNS ANOTHER HOME CONTROL COMPUTER IN THE FUTURE WITH SIMULAR FEATURES. I WOULD LIKE TO BUILD ONE. Msg#: 8234 *GENERAL* 10/08/88 11:02:30 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: BILL STEEN Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 8227 (HSC COMPUTER) There's nothing stopping you from building the original HCS if you have enough persistence to track down the one or two hard-to-find parts (like the transformer that stopped production). Msg#: 8297 *GENERAL* 10/10/88 09:19:20 From: JEFF BACHIOCHI To: BILL STEEN Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 8227 (HSC COMPUTER) . Bill, . Micromint is looking at modifying the present HCS to use X-10's new POWER LINE interface PL513. This would solve the problem of needing a special transformer for this unit. An external supply can run the HCS for normal DIRECT CONNECT I/O and the X-10 unit can be added separately for injecting X-10 commands on the power line. Only disadvantage I see here is the unit will take up 2 outlets (1 for the power supply - 1 for the X-10 line driver.) . jeff Msg#: 8186 *GENERAL* 10/07/88 09:30:50 From: RON WILSON To: ANY Subj: GIF PICTURE FORMAT Does anyone know of C callable routines for storing and displaying GIF format picture files? Failing that, a document or book giving the details of the GIF format? (Thanks in advance) Msg#: 8190 *GENERAL* 10/07/88 12:08:43 From: BOB PADDOCK To: RON WILSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 8186 (GIF PICTURE FORMAT) I think I rember seeing some thing about GIF on WB3FFV's BBS, try it at (301) 335-0858. Msg#: 8194 *GENERAL* 10/07/88 13:40:37 From: RON WILSON To: BOB PADDOCK (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 8190 (GIF PICTURE FORMAT) thanks Msg#: 8978 *GENERAL* 10/22/88 17:24:34 From: STEVE SMITH To: RON WILSON Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 8186 (GIF PICTURE FORMAT) Compuserve has files with complete descriptions of GIF format. I am working (slowly) on an IMAGEWISE to GIF format conversion. When it ready, I'll upload it with an explaination of the GIF format. Msg#: 9062 *GENERAL* 10/24/88 10:32:37 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: STEVE SMITH Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 8978 (GIF PICTURE FORMAT) I've wanted to do such a utility since I first learned about GIF, but there isn't any way I'll have time. I'd be interested in it when you have it working. I like the idea of being able to distribute a picture that has all its grayscale information intact, and off-load the task of how to display it on the program doing the displaying. Msg#: 8196 *GENERAL* 10/07/88 15:04:27 From: ROSS STONE To: SYSOP, ALL Subj: GENERAL, IR CONTROLLER I'm a consulting physicist and computer scientist. I needed some fast info on interfacing a VCR to a PC, a la the "master controller". I really appreciate being able to get it via the BBS. Thank you!! If anyone has more specific info, I would appreciate a 'phone call at (619) 459 8305. In particular, I'm trying to control a JVC 7000 SVHS unit. The IR link will work, but I could modify the deck to do it directly (using relays to emulate the control panel push buttons) if I could find a "non-kludgey" way to connect to (tap into, or "T" into) some flat flexible cable (FFC: it's used to interconnect PC boards, and looks like thin, flexible PC board itself). The problem seems to be that both the cable and connectors are very special order, large volume items - and there is no T connector (e.g., clamp on in the middle, with an insulation and trace piercing action) available. If anybody knows of something that will help, or has any suggestions, I'd really appreciate a call. Again, THANK YOU!! Ross Stone 10/7/88 Msg#: 8377 *GENERAL* 10/11/88 13:15:09 From: RON WILSON To: ROSS STONE (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 8196 (GENERAL, IR CONTROLLER) You could try contacting a JVC repair center - they might be willing to sell you a keypad-cable assembly. . In my experience, programming the computer to drive an IR LED is the most reasonable way (vis a vi headakes (sp?), reliablity, and, of course, it elliminates the possiblity of frying the VCR) Msg#: 8424 *GENERAL* 10/12/88 12:13:39 From: RICHARD ANDREWS To: ROSS STONE (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 8196 (GENERAL, IR CONTROLLER) . Your best bet would probably be to use the IR link. The flex circuit cable you describe tend to be very fragile and probably wouldn't take much abuse, they are really meant tobe connected once or twice and left alone. Msg#: 9067 *GENERAL* 10/24/88 14:26:34 From: ROSS STONE To: RON WILSON Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 8377 (GENERAL, IR CONTROLLER) Thanks! Msg#: 8218 *GENERAL* 10/07/88 22:54:01 From: GLENN MILLER To: ALL Subj: NEW PROTOCOL All: I am hailing from the city of Las Vegas and have ventured out of the valley to see if there is life back east. Yep, sure is. I uploaded an external tranfer protocol named "Mlink16.arc". This is the Mega link protocol and I use it around vegas, (where I can) to sqirts most of my collection of P.D> stuff anbround. If you have any questions or problems, don't hesitate to read the Docs, I read them. I think the BBS is the fairly nice, but I doMega link will work with it. A shame. Later, Glenn Miller Msg#: 8238 *GENERAL* 10/08/88 11:07:50 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: GLENN MILLER (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 8218 (NEW PROTOCOL) Adding protocols to multiline TBBS is not possible by just adding an external program. Version 2.1 of the program adds more protocols, but not the one you're looking for. Thanks for the upload, but we can't use it. Sorry. Msg#: 8262 *GENERAL* 10/09/88 03:01:17 From: GLENN MILLER To: KEN DAVIDSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 8238 (NEW PROTOCOL) Re: Mlink16.arc I understand the problem, btu hopefully other users will be able to take advantage of the Protocol. I think the BBS is running on CP/M is it not? I think there are HS protocols for CP/M out there as well. If not I'mm afriad I'd have to study my 8080 or Z80 machine code again to try to build one. However I don't see myself doing that till I get my IMSAI 8080 up and chugging. Nice chatting with Ya. Ciao, Glenn Miller Msg#: 8267 *GENERAL* 10/09/88 09:47:13 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: GLENN MILLER (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 8262 (NEW PROTOCOL) We haven't run a CP/M-based board since February. We switched to an IBM-based system when we needed to go multiline. Msg#: 8222 *GENERAL* 10/08/88 00:28:42 From: DICK FAIRBANKS To: KEN DAVIDSON (Rcvd) Subj: PACKET SERVICES Ken: What are the economics of hooking up to a commercial packet service like Telenet? Might as well give BIX a run for their money [smile]. I know about PC-Pursuit being "just around the corner". I don't subscribe, but I understand its slow. Dick Fairbanks <^_^> Msg#: 8233 *GENERAL* 10/08/88 11:00:30 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: DICK FAIRBANKS (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 8222 (PACKET SERVICES) To go to the next level of functionality (more than 8 or 16 incoming lines, more flexible conference structure, direct packet net connection) would require a substantial outlay in hardware and software, a full-time person just for the on-line service, plus connect and use charges for all users. Not a pretty picture as far as I'm concerned. We've talked about a direct packet net connection, and although I haven't priced it out, it would definitely require the charging of anyone who used it. PC Pursuit into the Hartford area is currently in operation, so anyone who spends more than $25 per month on long-distance calls to BBSs around the country would definitely benefit from signing up for the service. I'm afraid that expansion beyond adding a few more incoming lines will have to wait quite a while. Msg#: 8380 *GENERAL* 10/11/88 13:30:15 From: RON WILSON To: KEN DAVIDSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 8233 (PACKET SERVICES) Speaking of PC-Pursuit, do you (or anyone else here) have any idea where I can get a straight answer about the most up to date PC-Pur coverage. Telenet's marking people still only about the original 25 cities. Telenet is still saying that there is BBS I can call, but when I call the number, I get a "out of service" message from the phone company. (Thanks in advance) - Ron Msg#: 8390 *GENERAL* 10/11/88 19:16:28 From: JACK PERGAL To: RON WILSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 8380 (PACKET SERVICES) Log into Telenet 8-N-1. At the @ prompt enter SET? 0:0,57:1,63:0 At next @ prompt enter 909631 At Login prompt enter "bbs" ,(don't enter the ") answer the succeeding prompts and you'll be on the new Net Exchange BBS. You should be able to d/l what you need from there. . Jack Msg#: 8415 *GENERAL* 10/12/88 11:13:07 From: RON WILSON To: JACK PERGAL (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 8390 (PACKET SERVICES) Thanks. I'll try that. Msg#: 8224 *GENERAL* 10/08/88 00:32:18 From: CHUCK FRYAR To: ALL Subj: COMDEX Lets Have a Party! Steve, Curtis, and others have said they will be at Comdex in Las Vegas next month. I live out west (Idaho) and would really like a chance to meet you guys (and gals) in person. If CCI wants to sponsor something, I'll throw my full support behind it. If not, I'll at least post my Circus Circus room number somewhere and we can meet there. To start the ball rolling, please send me a message if you can be there and I'll start a list of interested people so we can keep you posted. Also, give suggestions as to refreshments, etc. and if we need to donate a few bucks each for refreshments and/or meeting place. Let me know, ++Chuck Msg#: 8300 *GENERAL* 10/10/88 10:33:17 From: CURT FRANKLIN To: CHUCK FRYAR (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 8224 (COMDEX) I'd certainly enjoy meeting as many INK readers or Circuit Cellar BBS users as possible. I'll be in Las Vegas the entire week of COMDEX, so let's try to pull something together. I'm afraid the editorial budget won't support one of the expensive COMDEX bashes, but maybe we can all get together over dinner, or at least some cheap munchies. Curt Msg#: 8332 *GENERAL* 10/10/88 23:35:19 From: CHUCK FRYAR To: CURT FRANKLIN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 8300 (COMDEX) Curt, Sounds good. I'll volunteer to do as much planning and setup as I can. My vote is for Monday evening as I'll be leaving on Wednesday at noon. Until we get more than about 10 confirmed, we can use my room at circus circus. I won't know which one until I arrive, but we can arrange notification later. If we get more than about 10, I'll see what there is in larger places and costs. Everyone who is planning on being in LV that week, PLEASE notify me! I need to know your collective preferences as to a dinner, snacks only, etc. My guess is that we want a chance to visit with Steve, Curt, and the CCI crew in a fairly informal setting. OK everybody, let me know what you want. +++ Chuck Msg#: 8388 *GENERAL* 10/11/88 18:47:53 From: JEFF JENSEN To: CHUCK FRYAR (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 8332 (COMDEX) Chuck, I will be at Comdex, although I will be staying quite a distance from the Strip. The Union Plaza Hotel may be too far away to make a good gathering place, so something on the Strip sounds fine. Maybe we can crash any McGraw-Hill hospitality suite and make animals of ourselves. Otherwise, someone's room or Robert Tinney's booth may be a good starting place. Curt's suggestion of dinner sounds great, too. Reservations for dinner that week are a bear, especially if you have a large group, so that may present a problem. I will be happy to kick in for refreshments. - - Jeff Msg#: 8475 *GENERAL* 10/13/88 02:09:18 From: GLENN MILLER To: CURT FRANKLIN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 8300 (COMDEX) Needless to say folks, I live in Las Vegas. Distance is really realtive in Las Vegas. No matter where you go, your there. Food I can tell you is very inexpencive. Circus^2 has an all you can eat buffet and the plates are the size of most trays anyplace else. Sometime you can get 12 oz Lobster for $9.00 with the fixins. The big casios have the best prices, the buger kings, Mc Donalds and such are some what pricey for the amount of food you get. While your in the area you should also check out the Museum of Natural history, what does electornics conventions have to do with Dinosaurs. Well the displays are full scale, and animated. They are very impressive, size wise. Just tossing in my own two bits (That's binary isn't it?) Later, Glenn Miller Msg#: 8651 *GENERAL* 10/16/88 13:34:00 From: STEVE CIARCIA To: CHUCK FRYAR (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 8332 (COMDEX) Don't worry about the money. We'll work it out and no one will get stuck for anything. I think we should get a room anyway and Circus Circus is pretty central. Let me talk to Curt and we'll get back to you. --Steve Msg#: 8704 *GENERAL* 10/17/88 10:20:39 From: CHUCK FRYAR To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 8651 (COMDEX) Sounds good Steve, I'll keep track for now of whose coming and anything else you need. My room is available if you want or we can get another. By the way, welcome back. ++ Chuck Msg#: 8225 *GENERAL* 10/08/88 00:55:06 From: MICHAEL CAVANAUGH To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: FAX INFO Steve, I had previously sent you a note requesting Fax info. I hope that someone out there can put me on to the info I need. I need almost enough info to build a FAX machine or at least have a good understanding to build my gadget. Any help from out there will be appreciated. Thank you, Michael T. Cavanaugh Msg#: 8295 *GENERAL* 10/10/88 07:02:24 From: BOB PADDOCK To: MICHAEL CAVANAUGH (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 8225 (FAX INFO) Check out the Nov. issue of Radio And Electronics for FAX info. Msg#: 8226 *GENERAL* 10/08/88 01:34:34 From: RICHARD OESTERLE To: ALL Subj: IBM MODEL 25 PRINTER PORT Could someone let me know if the IBM PS/2 Model 25 can read bytes from the printer port. I know the Model 30 can but I'm not sure about the Model 25. Also if anyone has any idea on how fast this port can be read (ie what is the max bytes per second that can be read) please let me know. . Thanks, Richie Msg#: 8230 *GENERAL* 10/08/88 09:27:16 From: LUC DE MEYER To: ALL Subj: ADDRESS LATTICE (GAL'S) Who can help me with the address of Lattice, makers of Generic Array Logic chips? I think they are based in Portland. Thanks! Luc De Meyer (the Netherlands) Msg#: 8289 *GENERAL* 10/09/88 23:21:51 From: JACK PERGAL To: LUC DE MEYER (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 8230 (ADDRESS LATTICE (GAL'S)) Lattice Semiconductor Corp. 5555 N.E. Moore Ct. Hillsboro, OR 97124 Phone 1-800-FASTGAL . . . Jack Msg#: 8606 *GENERAL* 10/15/88 06:30:08 From: LUC DE MEYER To: JACK PERGAL (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 8289 (ADDRESS LATTICE (GAL'S)) Thanks for replying Jack. Much appreciated. / Luc De Meyer. Msg#: 8236 *GENERAL* 10/08/88 11:03:55 From: PETE CHOMAK To: ALL Subj: HP QDSP-2021 Does anyone have data on the HP QDSP-2021 (quad 5x7 matrix display w/ logic in a 12 pin dip)? I have some lying around that I want to use, but I don't have any info. thanks-pete Msg#: 8252 *GENERAL* 10/08/88 19:04:36 From: ADAM KANIS To: ANYONE Subj: HARDWARE INFO I am relatively new to reading Byte, and therefore am not familiar with past projects discussed in Circuit Cellar. I am interested in learning about designing and building circuits to interface with IBM PC (or AT) compatibles by means of their expansion card slots. I would like to find a book (and/or Circuit Cellar articles) that would cover technical aspects as well as have practical example circuits. Similarly (but separately), I would like to know if anybody has any recommendations for books (or articles) that would cover practical hardware aspects of interfacing laboratory instrumentation to a PC by an RS-232 serial port allowing for bidirectional communication and control. Any ideas would be greatly appreciated. -Adam Msg#: 8260 *GENERAL* 10/08/88 22:53:34 From: THOMAS BUCHANAN To: ALEXANDER SCHNEIDER (Rcvd) Subj: RINGMASTER Alex, the utility of RINGMASTER is its ability to allow one to know which of up to 3 phone numbers (listed or unlisted) one is being called on. For example, I am a physician and am frequently "on call", at which times I MUST be immediately reachable. I have assigned a RINGMASTER phone number to my hospital/answering service. When its pattern of rings is heard I drop everything and answer THAT line. Solicitors, salesmen, etc. who call on WATS lines in the evening are thusly terminated, for reasons I'm sure you will understand. My only problem is with the answering machine, which is always set to answer on the 4th ring Msg#: 8381 *GENERAL* 10/11/88 13:38:46 From: RON WILSON To: THOMAS BUCHANAN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 8260 (RINGMASTER) Suggestion: Assign the most important number to the single ring and the least important to the double or tripple ring - that way you can screen out "garbage" calls AND get a chance to answer important calls personally. (Yes, I reallize that doing this will require a lot of habit breaking on your part) Msg#: 8646 *GENERAL* 10/16/88 12:49:32 From: THOMAS BUCHANAN To: RON WILSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 8381 (RINGMASTER) Ron, that may be the final option. Time permitting, however, I may experiment with 555 timers to devise a circuit which will block ring occuring to soon after their preceeding rings. Will probably have to use a relay rather than a solid state switch, however, because the circuit will have to pass rings, voice, etc. at the proper times. I'd really hate to change my patterns......lost my flexibility years ago. :-) Msg#: 8263 *GENERAL* 10/09/88 03:36:58 From: GLENN MILLER To: CHUCK FRYAR (Rcvd) Subj: COMDEX ACCOMODATIONS Mr. Fryar: I am uncertain as to how I may be able to you out. As far as accomodatio ns and reservations go, you would be more in controll of the situation if you handled them yourself. I personally think that I will be simply lucky enough to go to comdex myself. I have a slave driver for a boss (used to work for big blue) and probaly won't let me go until I have made a couple of sacrifices, hail his leadership, and propery licked his corporate boots, before he'll let me go. Other than that, he's an okay joe. I could probably tell you the best plaes to eat, but that's about all the power I have out here. Wish I could help more, Glenn Miller Msg#: 8280 *GENERAL* 10/09/88 19:28:02 From: CHUCK FRYAR To: GLENN MILLER (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 8263 (COMDEX ACCOMODATIONS) Thanks for the reply Glenn. I have a position which gives me the ability to pretty well choose my hours and work, which means I get to work twice as many hours for half the pay :-). I may tap you with questions as to how far x is from y, etc., but I can't do too much more that say come on over to my room monday, byob. I am looking forward to seeing a bunch of you next month. See you then. ++ Chuck Msg#: 8292 *GENERAL* 10/10/88 00:08:58 From: GLENN MILLER To: CHUCK FRYAR (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 8280 (COMDEX ACCOMODATIONS) Chuck: Sounds good to me. byob, Hmm... Bring your own broad, no problem, I think. I don't drink normally, usually just water is fine, so long as it's bottled. Take my word for it, you don't want to drink the tap water here. As far as where stuff is at and how far away it is, piece of cake. But walking is your best set, it should be nice and cool, around 70 - 85 is best. Public transit isn't, It's tourist. Not that I've got anything against tourist, sometimes I do it myself. But toss some word my way when you need to. Later, Glenn Miller Msg#: 8298 *GENERAL* 10/10/88 09:26:42 From: GEORGE NOVACEK To: ALL Subj: Z8 MCU I am designing a new controller with Z8 MCU. I have never used this device before. The spec seems to be a bit unclear on handling interrupts. If there is anyone with experience I'd appreciate a help. It would save me having to breadboard the circuit just to figure out the interrupts. There are 3 inputs, connected to P30. P31 and P32, each initiating a different interrupt routine. These must be fast and short. The inputs trigger their respective interrupts on negative going edges. The interrupts arrive at unpredictable times, but they are at least 2 ms apart. The problem is that the voltage may stay low for several seconds. This would prevent the next interrupt from being triggered in my old machine which used a Z80 and a PIO. I hqad 2 PIO's available then, so I just used a different port for each input. The question now is, does the Z8 differentiate its interrupt inputs, or do I have to add a one-shot or at least an RC to allow the inputs to return to + before the next interrupt arrives ? I'd like to do it with as few components as possible and, like I said, if anyone can help me save some time playing around with the thing I'll appreciate it.Do you know if Zilog have a FAX? I have tried to get help from them but one could spend a fortune on phone charges just being on hold. I have a FAX at home (705) 742 0572. Thanks. George. Msg#: 8334 *GENERAL* 10/11/88 00:49:47 From: KEITH TUCHOLSKI To: ALL Subj: TERM. EM. a question for alll: have just put together the Z8Basic system and now need a terminal to test it. can anyone point toward a simple program which will allow the pc to act as a 'glass teletype' ??? any help would be greatly appreciated. KEITH T Msg#: 8351 *GENERAL* 10/11/88 10:05:37 From: CURT FRANKLIN To: KEITH TUCHOLSKI (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 8334 (TERM. EM.) I use PIBTerm and PC-Talk for communications. PC-Talk is smaller and simpler, PIBTerm is more flexible and powerful, and both are shareware/public domain. I don't know whether either is available here yet, but they will be, and if you need them before they go up here you can try BIX, CompuServe, or the Cul-de-Sac BBS in Massachussetts. Curt Msg#: 8352 *GENERAL* 10/11/88 10:28:50 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: KEITH TUCHOLSKI (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 8334 (TERM. EM.) My personal favorite is Procomm, but since the complete ARC file is over 200K long and the daily download limit here is 200K, I haven't posted it. I've been considering raising the limit. If I do, I'll post Procomm. If others have PD/shareware comm programs they could upload, we'd like to post them. Msg#: 8373 *GENERAL* 10/11/88 12:23:01 From: BOB PADDOCK To: KEN DAVIDSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 8352 (TERM. EM.) What version of Procomm do you have? I have 3.1.0 that is only 160K. There is no .DOC file, but you can get every thing set up by using the Alt-F10 (HELP) key. Let me know if you want it. Msg#: 8405 *GENERAL* 10/12/88 08:38:39 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: BOB PADDOCK (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 8373 (TERM. EM.) It's the original test drive version of Procomm+. If you have something smaller than 200K and wouldn't mind sending it up, I'd gladly post it. Thanks. Msg#: 8470 *GENERAL* 10/12/88 23:36:36 From: KEITH TUCHOLSKI To: CURT FRANKLIN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 8351 (TERM. EM.) CURT -THANX FOR THE REPLY. HOWEVER ,I THINK I'M NOT ASKING THE CORRECT QUESTIONS. I AM USING PC-TALK3 TO DIAL-IN. WHAT I NEED IS A PROGRAM THAT WILL CONNECT THE TERMINAL TO THE RS-232 PORT. DOES PC-TALK DO THIS? I HAVE NOT BEEN SUCCESSFUL AS OF YET. THANX.KEITH Msg#: 8476 *GENERAL* 10/13/88 02:15:35 From: GLENN MILLER To: BOB PADDOCK (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 8373 (TERM. EM.) Bob: I don't want to cause a panic but, I don't recall Datastorm Technologies making a 3.1.0 version. I use 2.1.2 which I thoght was the latest version before PcPlus (ProComm Plus) thier latest version. How long have you been using it, and have you checked your FAT track latel!3wFr+6gqd5iXIz}">znp!5U zh?eGYy? (line noise again) Later, Glenn Miller Msg#: 8482 *GENERAL* 10/13/88 07:04:11 From: BOB PADDOCK To: GLENN MILLER (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 8476 (TERM. EM.) I've been using it for a couple of months, haven't found any problems. If its a trojen, then who ever when to alot of trouble to change the statis line and the on line help to be more useful. It seems to me the sign on screen says the name of the company, and that it was formaly Datastorm Tec, but the fone number given for the BBS has been disconected. What is Procomms offical BBS number now? Before I went to 3.1.0 I was using 2.4.2, much latter than your 2.1.? Msg#: 8488 *GENERAL* 10/13/88 08:31:11 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: GLENN MILLER (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 8476 (TERM. EM.) The latest version of Procomm before Procomm+ came out was 2.4.2. I was assuming that the version 3 that Bob had was a version of Procomm+. Since he mentioned that the help key sequence for his program is Alt-F10, though, it doesn't appear to be Procomm+ (it was changed to Alt-Z). Msg#: 8874 *GENERAL* 10/20/88 02:19:09 From: GLENN MILLER To: BOB PADDOCK (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 8482 (TERM. EM.) Bob: I'll have to checxDk a version of PCPLUSTD (ProComm PLUS Test Drive) to see if Datastorm is still kicki I'll let you know. Ciao, Glenn M. Msg#: 8875 *GENERAL* 10/20/88 02:22:11 From: GLENN MILLER To: KEN DAVIDSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 8488 (TERM. EM.) Ken: Yes, it sound very suspicious to me, but he says his system has not been chewed on by any worms or viruses. It may be a hacked version or a PCPlus Beta that got away from them. Oh well, I hope he doesn't find out the hard way. Ciao, Glenn M. Msg#: 8336 *GENERAL* 10/11/88 01:50:57 From: HARRY LEW To: ALL Subj: PRINTER THROUGHPUT I'm trying to find out what the maximum throughput on a parallel printer is before you overwhelm the printers buffer. I'm building a variation on a serial to parallel converter interface and want to know how high a serial input I should allow for. Msg#: 8426 *GENERAL* 10/12/88 12:33:44 From: RICHARD ANDREWS To: HARRY LEW (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 8336 (PRINTER THROUGHPUT) . Why not allow for it to operate at 19,200 baud? If you are already doing a serial to parallel converter why not add a buffer t it as well? The buffer would act as a sort of a "cushion" between the computer and the printer, and if done properly would allow you send serial data out as fast as possible until the buffer fills up. Msg#: 8690 *GENERAL* 10/17/88 03:24:40 From: HARRY LEW To: RICHARD ANDREWS (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 8426 (PRINTER THROUGHPUT) Thanks for the suggestion, but I'm planning on using a single chip microprocessor in the design, and it has a limited amount of RAM (128 bytes). I could add extra RAM but that makes for a increased chip count and more circuit board to build. I'm trying to keep the size as small as possible in the design. Though 19,200 baud is the highest for modem chips right now I would perfer to design for more throughput in the intial design stages. Msg#: 8338 *GENERAL* 10/11/88 03:17:56 From: GREG BELL To: ALL Subj: SPEECH RECOGNITION Has anybody successfully experimented with speech recognition? I mean, actual projects built using a speech recognition circuit? I'd like to hear about it. Is anybody familiar with the Correctex speech recognition chip(s) from Scott Instruments? I have a partial address and would like the rest if possible. Thanks@! Greg Bell Msg#: 8427 *GENERAL* 10/12/88 12:37:31 From: RICHARD ANDREWS To: GREG BELL (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 8338 (SPEECH RECOGNITION) . I have played around with the Covox speech recognition board and it works fairly well (95% or so accuracy). The board is something like $89. Their phone # is 503-342-1271. . They also sell a program which will allow spoken words to be interpreted as keyboard input which, theoretically at least, will allow it to be used with any existing program. Msg#: 8675 *GENERAL* 10/16/88 21:12:16 From: JOHN COOK To: RICHARD ANDREWS (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 8427 (SPEECH RECOGNITION) I have both the Speech Thing and the Voice MAster drom them and them and they do work rather well, but one thing that I found was that the voice recognition was frequency dependant in that it wasn't so much what the shape of the wave looked like but also the frequency. So that it could screw up if you changed the 'tone' of your voice. The recording or 'digitizing' part of it was ok but it only could digitize up to 15khz and could only use blocks of 64k no matter how much RAM you have, but you can concatenate little parts and make a big one which it can play but it can't record that much in one block. A nice thing was the on screen osciliscope. This would monitor the incoming signal and plot it on the screen. By the press of a button you could freeze the wave and print it out, which is a feature found on only very expensive oscilliscopes. A couple other things: there is an on screen editor of the wave with many features like high and low pass filters and raising and lowering of the amplitude. Also parts of different samples can be cut and pasted to form some interesting samples. All in all it is a good system for the price for a beginner who doesn't have critical applications in mind. Msg#: 8896 *GENERAL* 10/20/88 22:41:03 From: GREG BELL To: RICHARD ANDREWS (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 8427 (SPEECH RECOGNITION) Hmm... you wouldn't happen to know what chip that board uses for its recognition, would you? I'm not interested in spending big bucks but rather in experimenting... GBell Msg#: 8933 *GENERAL* 10/21/88 16:25:14 From: RICHARD ANDREWS To: GREG BELL (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 8896 (SPEECH RECOGNITION) . The board itself is an A/D circuit. The real guts of the operation is in the software which interprets the data. Msg#: 8384 *GENERAL* 10/11/88 15:47:27 From: JEFF KATZ To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: THANKS Thanks for taking the time to reply my message about IR sensors. I'll look into the other ultrasonic method supplier. I also got a message on this BBS from someone who has worked with the ranging IR system, so the CCBBS served its purpose. Msg#: 8386 *GENERAL* 10/11/88 16:23:06 From: S. ALEXEI GITTER To: ALL Subj: TERMINAL EMULATION ON A PC I am developing an application in UNIX with terminals that need the full IBM PC keyboard (i.e. the alt keys which terminals do not send) and so i am looking for a terminal emulation program (VT100 or WYSE or other common smart terminal) with source code that runs under DOS. My plan is to use cheap clones to act as terminals and modify the keyboard interface in the emulator to send additional codes for the alt key combinations. The reason for this is I also need to use the small keypads sold by TOUCHSTONE and although I have had TOUCHSTONE modify them for use with terminals rather than PCs they do not work as well with the terminals. If there are any other ideas that someone has I am willing to listen to all thoughts. I will check back here in a day or two, please feel free to call me at TRADELINK (312) 939-0081. I am part of group of traders that trade on the exchanges in Chicago and New York. I am willing to pay for the correct solution if I can find one ready made. Thanks for your interest. Msg#: 8419 *GENERAL* 10/12/88 11:27:57 From: RON WILSON To: S. ALEXEI GITTER Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 8386 (TERMINAL EMULATION ON A PC) I've been experimenting with an interrupt driven comm driver that could probably be used to create a simple terminal program that could be used in conjunction with MS-DOS's ANSI.SYS console driver. In my estimation, the program could probably be just a loop that tests both the comm port and the keyboard for data and then transfers any waiting data on its way. The ANSI.SYS driver should provide decent vt100 emulation on the display side. The program could do some mapping of codes for the keyboard. Almost all UNIX and Xenix (et al) systems have either termcap or terminfo; you can modify an entry for vt100 or ansi terminal to work with your custom terminal emulator. . good luck - Ron Msg#: 8439 *GENERAL* 10/12/88 16:17:41 From: CURT FRANKLIN To: RON WILSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 8419 (TERMINAL EMULATION ON A PC) Ron- If you wrote the comm package, I'd be interested in seeing a Circuit Cellar INK article. I want to do more with software, particularly programs that tie in to the hardware in some fundamental way. An interrupt-driven comm package sounds about right. Let me know what you think. Thanks, Curt Franklin Msg#: 8499 *GENERAL* 10/13/88 10:51:52 From: RON WILSON To: CURT FRANKLIN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 8439 (TERMINAL EMULATION ON A PC) The package was written by some one else (I forget the name). It's shareware, so can't be used for commercial purposes. However, it may be OK for me to write about software that happens to use it. I'll try to contact the author. If it's OK, I'll have him send you a letter to that affect. (effect?) Msg#: 8561 *GENERAL* 10/14/88 11:09:25 From: CURT FRANKLIN To: RON WILSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 8499 (TERMINAL EMULATION ON A PC) Ron- I'll look forward to hearing from him and from you. Thanks, Curt Msg#: 8387 *GENERAL* 10/11/88 16:55:32 From: ALAN MODE To: ALL USERS Subj: BSR CONTROL In using a BSR controller in my home, I find that I can not always communicate between the two legs of the power circuit. Most of the power plugs are on one leg of the 220 service and the light switches in some parts of the house are on the other leg. As long as the oven is on or the dryer is running, everything is fine, but.... Does anyone have any suggestions on safe, legal ways to get communication across both legs so I don't have to purchase another computer to drive both sets of circuits? Msg#: 8409 *GENERAL* 10/12/88 09:10:33 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: ALAN MODE (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 8387 (BSR CONTROL) The safest and easiest way is to get Leviton's power line bridge. It is a module that plugs into a 220V outlet that bridges the two 110V legs. I don't have Leviton's address or phone number with me; I'll try to remember to bring it in from home. You might call X-10 and they might be able to put you in contact with Leviton. X-10 can be reached at (201) 784-9700. The 110V legs can also be bridged by installing a few capacitors and fuses in the fuse box between them, but that's best left for someone who's comfortable working with high voltage. It's also been suggested that the capacitors and fuses be installed inside a 220V appliance. That way, it can be unplugged for installation on the components, then plugged in for regular use. By the way, BSR hasn't been in the module business for several years. The company that produces and markets the modules and controllers is now X-10 (USA) Inc. Msg#: 8398 *GENERAL* 10/12/88 03:50:12 From: ORRIN CHARM To: HARDWARE/SOFTWARE DESIGNERS IN L.A. AREA Subj: DESIGN I'm looking for someone to help design a remote control panel mockup. The panel will plug into a RS-232 serial port on a PC, and will have a keyboard and 2x40 LCD Display. The software should enable the panel to respond as if there was a control system there. The demo project will hopefully lead to a design contract. Someone local to Los Angeles would be preferred, but I could work with someone by phone/fax/modem. Call Orrin Charm at (213) 739-4444 and leave a message. Thanks Msg#: 8421 *GENERAL* 10/12/88 11:39:18 From: LARRY YOUNKINS To: ALL Subj: INTEL MICROCONTROLLER BBS Some time ago there was a message about Intel's Microcontroller BBS at (602) 961-8167. I've logged onto this board and "subscribed" but was unable to access any files, etc. Has anyone been successful in doing this? Messages to the sysop have gone unread. Thanks Larry Younkins. Msg#: 8444 *GENERAL* 10/12/88 16:46:32 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: LARRY YOUNKINS (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 8421 (INTEL MICROCONTROLLER BBS) I would recommend not calling there at all. I received a nasty note from the sysop in my private area that I should more carefully screen who I tell about their board. (Of course, I'm not the one who posted their number in the first place.) I guess they got some calls from users who don't live up to their superior intelligence standards. I let him know (among other choice comments) that a publically posted number was fair game for anyone, but I don't expect him to call back to read the reply. They should make it known to their users not to post the number publically if they don't want just anyone calling. I guess they'd rather not deal with potential customers but only with high-volume, existing customers. Msg#: 8458 *GENERAL* 10/12/88 19:00:44 From: JACK PERGAL To: LARRY YOUNKINS (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 8421 (INTEL MICROCONTROLLER BBS) I saw the same message and registered on the Microcontroller BBS also. I was validated the next day and the sysop left me an E-mail message confirmng this. Did you leave the sysop an E-mail message requiring full validation? They require this and the system is a little confusing, you have to go to the mail section and leave a message to the sysop. I downloaded some files without problem. Do you know what a file with a .wri extension is for? There weren't any descriptions of the files available na and I'm not familiar with .wri files. I've also found the Texas Instruments DSP BBS at 713-274-2323. BTW both of these BBS's are PC Pursuitable. . Jack Msg#: 8566 *GENERAL* 10/14/88 12:15:57 From: LARRY YOUNKINS To: KEN DAVIDSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 8444 (INTEL MICROCONTROLLER BBS) Ken, I sort of figured it must be some situation like that. When I read the SYSOP's mailbox there were many messages making access requests that were unread; some several months old. I'm in agreement with you regarding dissemination of the BBS number. If access to the board is intended to be restrictive, then it should be so stated. The message response by Jack Pergal is somewhat puzzling though, unless he subscribed before the "policy" went into effect. Anyway, thanks for the information. Larry Younkins Msg#: 8672 *GENERAL* 10/16/88 21:01:07 From: JOHN COOK To: LARRY YOUNKINS (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 8421 (INTEL MICROCONTROLLER BBS) Just a comment here, i dont think very much of BBS systems that require you to be a frequent caller to get any access. Thats one of the reasons i like this board so much, everyone has equal access to everything. JDC Msg#: 8428 *GENERAL* 10/12/88 12:45:52 From: RICHARD ANDREWS To: ALL Subj: WILDCARD-88 . Intel makes a PC clone which contains everything but memory and I/O devices on a board that is 2 x 4 in. The idea is to use a PC as the development enviroment for the board and then use the board as an embedded controller. The board is called the Wildcard-88. Has anyone out there had any experience with it or any information on it? Msg#: 8437 *GENERAL* 10/12/88 15:15:06 From: ROBERT MCILVAINE To: ED WELLER (Rcvd) Subj: X-10 STEREO CONTROL Ed, Sorry this response took so long. Ive had some phone line problems lately and have been off the air. Anyhow, give me a call some time I'll trade info with you. Home 603-673-5861 Work 508-682-4661 Regards, Mac Msg#: 8438 *GENERAL* 10/12/88 15:18:17 From: ROBERT MCILVAINE To: RON WILSON (Rcvd) Subj: X-10 STEREO CONTROL Ron, would love to talk about X-10 control for stereo. The release of the new receiver module from X-10 makes it even easier than before since the major portion of the required interface circuitry is done for you. Give me a call Home 603-673-5861 Work 508-682-4661 Regards, Mac Msg#: 8451 *GENERAL* 10/12/88 18:20:15 From: JEFF JENSEN To: RON WILSON (Rcvd) Subj: 6502 CLOCK SPEEDS Well, it took a while to get back, but I finally got a few answers on the great 6502 clock speed debate. (A side note here; we forget about reliability of connections now that gold plating has replaced tin. I.E., it took reseating every chip and circuit board to get the OSI to run, after going unused for 5 years.) - The OSI has a 6502 made by the now defunct Synertek, with a '77 or '78 date code. The box stock OSI runs at about 1 MHz through a 74123. An RC network controls the clock rate, but the 'ON' portion of the duty cycle does not vary with the clock rate (pulse length is about 1 uS long). A trimpot allows tweaking the clock rate. In my system, the clock was around 1.1 MHz as I started. - To make the modification, I tack soldered a 10 uF cap across one leg of the existing 33 pF cap. This allowed booting the system at normal clock speeds. Then I entered a short program to constantly write to the screen, so that if the processor died, it would be immediately evident. Then (here is the high-tech part) I bridged the other lead of the 10 uF cap. The clock rate to the processor dropped to 60 mS, or about 16 Hz, with the pulse length still at around 1 uS. I tried to go slower, but additional capacitance locked up the processor. I did not determine at what clock rate the 6502 stopped running since the setup was pretty kludged up and I didn't have a wide selection of caps. - From this I would say that this particular variety of 6502 can run near but not at DC clock rates. Other vendor's chips are a different story, and I would not assume anything about them. I did not have any Rockwell or MOS Technology parts, so I couldn't try them out. - - Jeff Msg#: 8500 *GENERAL* 10/13/88 10:58:05 From: RON WILSON To: JEFF JENSEN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 8451 (6502 CLOCK SPEEDS) Wonders never cease.... I wonder if using the halt input instead of "slowing" the clock would have different results. Msg#: 8519 *GENERAL* 10/13/88 18:08:36 From: JEFF JENSEN To: RON WILSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 8500 (6502 CLOCK SPEEDS) As I thought about the results, I decided that the question is still not completely answered. When I get a chance, I'm going to breadboard a NOP circuit (tie the data lines into a constant NOP command) and put some LEDs on the address lines. It should walk up through the entire address range. Then I can play with HALT and clock speeds to my heart's content. I'll let you know when its done. - - Jeff Msg#: 8571 *GENERAL* 10/14/88 13:59:53 From: RON WILSON To: JEFF JENSEN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 8519 (6502 CLOCK SPEEDS) good luck Msg#: 8667 *GENERAL* 10/16/88 17:28:19 From: JIM NELSON To: JEFF JENSEN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 8451 (6502 CLOCK SPEEDS) I don't know how you're doing it; my '83 Synertek data book lists the maximum clock period for their version of the chip as only 40 microseconds, equivalent to 25 KHz. What really confuses me is why you say that the "ON portion of the [clock] duty cycle does not vary with the clock rate (pulse length is about 1 uS long)". Since the 650X family runs on a two phase clock, you've got to add to that 1 uS pulse the approximately 450 nS minimum pulse width of the necessary complementary clock phase to come up with the clock cycle period. Assuming that the 1 uS pulse is one constituent of the 6502 clock, this 6502 clock cycle is really around 1.45 uS, or 700 KHz. I'm also curious about how you monitored the 6502's health. Since you started with a clock of about 1 MHz, and reached 16 Hz without ill effect; this means you multiplied the duration of every cpu operation by 62,500. For example, if you had written a program to write 100 characters per second to the OSI terminal, this would be reduced to 1 character every 10 1/2 minutes under your new operating conditions. Didn't OSI made some dual processor (Z80 & 6502) equipment? Msg#: 8735 *GENERAL* 10/17/88 18:54:19 From: JEFF JENSEN To: JIM NELSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 8667 (6502 CLOCK SPEEDS) I'm not sure I understand your question on the clock signal, but try this. The 650x chips have a built-in clock generator and require only an external crystal or oscillator to generate phi1 and phi2. The 651x chips require the two-phase clock. In my description of the clock signal, I was inaccurate to say that the "ON" portion of the clock was around 1 uS. Actually, the 74123 produces a low-going pulse of 1 uS. The pulse width does not change, but the interval between pulses does. - As far as monitoring the health of the computer, you are correct that the speed of any execution slows down dramatically. But that also makes watching the health of the machine easier. The OSI uses dual addressed memory, so that the video circuit gets access to the memory as long as the processor is not using it. When the CPU slows down, it starts to interfere noticeably with the video refresh, causing lots of snow and flicker. Much of the time in the program is spent scrolling the screen up one character at a time, so, it is quite noticeable. As far as the specifications for the chip, this one may be a throwback (now days, they would rate it higher and charge more for it). I really would like to know how unusual this is, since I hate to misinform a nyone. I don't doubt that specs for the chip are as stated, but I have seen with my own scope... - - Jeff Msg#: 8738 *GENERAL* 10/17/88 19:14:31 From: JEFF JENSEN To: JIM NELSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 8667 (6502 CLOCK SPEEDS) Jim, a couple more items. The designation of phi1 and phi2 may be inaccurate. I will check that out tonight; I don't have any references here at work. The other item is the multi processor OSI. They had a system with Z80, 6800 and 6502 in the same system. I never had a chance to get at one, but supposedly you could transfer control to any one of the processors and it could pass control to one of the other processors. This was a business system, as contrasted with the Superboard and C2-4P machines. - - Jeff Msg#: 8798 *GENERAL* 10/18/88 17:15:16 From: JEFF JENSEN To: JIM NELSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 8667 (6502 CLOCK SPEEDS) Jim, I checked up on the clock signal names, and in the 651x MPUs, they use phi0 and phi1 as the two clock phases. Phi2 is an output from the MPU to syncronize I/O and memory access. - - Jeff Msg#: 8820 *GENERAL* 10/18/88 23:13:04 From: JIM NELSON To: JEFF JENSEN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 8735 (6502 CLOCK SPEEDS) All members of the 6500 family require two phase clocks whether both phases phi1 and phi2 are fed in through pins from the external circuitry (as in the 651X as you said) or are simply developed by inverting and buffering a single phase clock signal fed from the external circuitry. My point is simple: if you're using a 6502, and the low period of the externally injected clock is 1 microsecond long, then there is no conceivable way for the period of a single cycle of the 6502's clock to be shorter than 1.45 microseconds. I got that figure by adding the 1 uS low period you stated to the 450 nS for the factory specified minimum high pulse width of the clock on a 1 MHz 6502. That's how I came up with the assertion that the clock line (or whatever) you're playing with couldn't drive your 6502 faster than 714 KHz. So where did you get the 1.1 MHz figure? Msg#: 8824 *GENERAL* 10/18/88 23:19:28 From: JIM NELSON To: JEFF JENSEN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 8798 (6502 CLOCK SPEEDS) I've got six years experience designing controllers with the family. That's why I can respond as I have, and why your assertions don't follow. Msg#: 9092 *GENERAL* 10/24/88 17:15:17 From: JEFF JENSEN To: JIM NELSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 8820 (6502 CLOCK SPEEDS) Jim, please pardon my crainial density. - I finally stopped to think about what you've been saying and you are right. A 1 uS pulse would make it impossible to have as fast a clock as I was saying. At the 1.1 MHz clock rate, the pulse is actually around 650 nS and the rest of the cycle is around 250 nS for a total of .9 uS. I know this does not jive with the technical specs, but the part is an "A" version (2 MHz, I believe) which has already done some impossible things. I was spending so much time watching the slow end that I got sloppy on the high end. Sorry about the inaccuracy. Msg#: 8452 *GENERAL* 10/12/88 18:25:57 From: JEFF JENSEN To: MARK LAMPKIN (Rcvd) Subj: HOME CONTROL COMMUNICATION Mark, in your home control work, have you developed any home LAN communication protocols? I have been rolling the requirements of a two way LAN around and wondered if you have implemented anything special in your systems that might be important. I have several design considerations that may or may not be important in this environment, and I'm finding that a fuller protocol with routing, addressing, error detection, control and data packeting gets to be quite alot of overhead for slower networks. - - Jeff Msg#: 8464 *GENERAL* 10/12/88 21:44:23 From: MARK LAMPKIN To: JEFF JENSEN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 8452 (HOME CONTROL COMMUNICATION) Jeff....The way the system started was as a simple protocol...as the system was implemented the protocol developped a thyroid condition and started groing out of proportion to the actual needs of the system...Now it is a simple,but powerful,(useful),level...The actual system is more of a token pass ring network.....To keep fibering,(my term for wiring,but with fiber optics),to a minimum,the network is a closed,uni-directional,rin g...Each controller is listening to it's upstream neighbor...If it's address matches the second byte in the packet,it responds to the third byte,control word,and creates a packet of it's own.The basic command stucture is...... Byte 1.........STX Byte 2.........Address Byte 3.........Command Byte 4.........Packet Length Byte 5.........Data Byte 5+N.......Data Byte 5+N+1.....ETX So far the comm error rate has been zero,so there is no checksum,If that starts to creep up.....Simply add it.The whole network just keeps passing the message until it is processed and a response has been taken...Controlle r #1 always starts the token....Mark Msg#: 8469 *GENERAL* 10/12/88 22:39:39 From: KEN HOWELL To: MARK LAMPKIN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 8464 (HOME CONTROL COMMUNICATION) This is something that always fouls me up in home lans -- in your scheme, how does a controller other than 1 "grab" a slot to send its own signal, without interrogation from controller #1? --Ken. Msg#: 8504 *GENERAL* 10/13/88 11:17:33 From: RON WILSON To: MARK LAMPKIN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 8464 (HOME CONTROL COMMUNICATION) Your protocol looks alot like HDLC. Motorola (and others) make a chip that does exactly what you described. Msg#: 8517 *GENERAL* 10/13/88 17:58:25 From: JEFF JENSEN To: MARK LAMPKIN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 8464 (HOME CONTROL COMMUNICATION) Your protocol looks much like what I have come up with, except I had also included originator address and a preamble. I've spent too much time looking at LAN protocols. Does your net use a single micro type or have you got a bunch of micro families represented? I also wondered what baud rate you are running at, which would affect the error rate and impact of message or packet size. - One of my interests would be to allow all three types of home functions on the same wire--monitoring (security and status), control and peer-to-peer communications. It seems that to keep the cost of the system down, a transaction oriented approach (small, self-containe d message packets) would be better than massive message and bulk transfer. - - Jeff Msg#: 8589 *GENERAL* 10/14/88 21:48:32 From: MARK LAMPKIN To: KEN HOWELL (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 8469 (HOME CONTROL COMMUNICATION) Ken...The interesting part of this type of system is,as with anything,if it is implemented correctly,it's crashproof..(?)....The way to make it crashproof is to examine the network topology....It's a ring and each controller recieves the message and then,if the address doesn't match,relay s it to it's downstream neighbor....When a controller wants to send a broadcast to another controller,it waits for an incoming message,buffers the recieved message,inserts it's own out-going message and finally completes it's task by relaying the buffered message it last recieved...... .....Quite simple,yet eloquent....I wish I could take claim for this concept......For network start-up....Controller #1 comes on line and delays the calculated maximum loop delay.If no message has been recieved within that time frame,it sends a token message to itself,containing dummy data under it's own address....This checks loop integrity on the first pass and after the first pass the same message is continued to enable the other stations to achieve a time slot to get on the network........So are the basics of my LAN........Any diagnostic errors are then displayed on the host It just so happens that,in my command stucture,a command byte of "00H" is a broadcast of the data contained in the packet.This packet then is considered as a network display,meaning that if a node has display capability,(i.e.,something readable or decipherable by the imperfect human sensory capabilities),the packet data is displayed.This is then a broadcast to and including all the operating nodes to pinpoint the failed module............Simpl,eh?............Mark Msg#: 8590 *GENERAL* 10/14/88 21:50:41 From: MARK LAMPKIN To: RON WILSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 8504 (HOME CONTROL COMMUNICATION) Ron.....It is quite similar,eh? However,those chips are harder to come by,and not as cheap as me,and a little software....Mark Msg#: 8593 *GENERAL* 10/14/88 21:59:12 From: MARK LAMPKIN To: JEFF JENSEN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 8517 (HOME CONTROL COMMUNICATION) Jeff....So far,on my network,I have three 80C85's,two 1802's,six 68705p3's,two 68705R3's---(because these ain't cheap),one Z80,four 6809's and two 680X0's....Kind of the Heinz 57 approach....In a home system,securi ty is not of the greatest concern,and taking into account the security system I have implemented,the loop turn around time is between 3-400 miliseconds,on the average.I'm presently running 38.4k baud,but have considered going up to 76.8k....The reason for this is a project I'm considering.I'll need a little more dedicated task time in a new node...not so much time can be spent loop processing....Mark Msg#: 8600 *GENERAL* 10/15/88 01:40:02 From: KEN HOWELL To: MARK LAMPKIN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 8589 (HOME CONTROL COMMUNICATION) Well, that certainly explains things! The Motorola 6870x series implements a built-in protocol, where the bus can actually "sleep" until activated by messages. I don't think it is a robust as the protocol you describe. --Ken. Msg#: 8614 *GENERAL* 10/15/88 09:48:02 From: MARK LAMPKIN To: KEN HOWELL (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 8600 (HOME CONTROL COMMUNICATION) Ken....The Motorola protocol,of which you speak,is in the 6801 family of products,(i.e.,6801,6803,68701.....).This is the 6805 family of products... ...No built in UART.....All software,for the UART and the protocol...This family of processors is my favorite to work with...Straight forward memory map,true bit manipulation and anything from 32 I/O pins to on-board A/D or phase locked loop.......Really a neat chip........Mark Msg#: 8622 *GENERAL* 10/15/88 15:06:40 From: KEN HOWELL To: MARK LAMPKIN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 8614 (HOME CONTROL COMMUNICATION) I picked up a few of them when Jameco was having a sale on them. I've also got a number of the Motorola application notes on the family. I'm in the process of building a programmer for my Amiga for these little guys, and look forward to when I can make one sing. I am uploading today the 6870x assembler. I assume that you have something already. By the way, regarding your home LAN, what happens if one node goes down? Does this break the ring, and thereby ruin the integrity of the lan? --Ken. Msg#: 8630 *GENERAL* 10/15/88 22:31:18 From: MARK LAMPKIN To: KEN HOWELL (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 8622 (HOME CONTROL COMMUNICATION) Ken....Presently,the LAN goes down from the culprit node on...I am moving into a new home in about two weeks and then I get to start from scratch, again....My present LAN is all fiber optic,so,internally to each system is a watchdog timer which in most cases takes care of that problem.When and if one goes terminal,(pun ?---not much of one),all the operational nodes display the fault....Then comes human intervention...In 47 months of operation,I've had only two terminals terminal...an accceptable number for me......Mark Msg#: 8649 *GENERAL* 10/16/88 13:11:50 From: KEN HOWELL To: MARK LAMPKIN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 8630 (HOME CONTROL COMMUNICATION) Well, that's not a bad history. I've seen lans that are in a ring configuration, but the nodes are only "listening" to the ring, and do not represent a break in the ring. This approach won't crash the way your lan would, but I think the interfacing details become stickier. --Ken. Msg#: 8668 *GENERAL* 10/16/88 17:29:17 From: JIM NELSON To: MARK LAMPKIN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 8464 (HOME CONTROL COMMUNICATION) Are you familiar with CEBus, the Consumer Electronics Bus? It's an EIA standard for communications among consumer electronics products and home appliances being worked out even as we sleep. Msg#: 8673 *GENERAL* 10/16/88 21:05:36 From: MARK LAMPKIN To: JIM NELSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 8668 (HOME CONTROL COMMUNICATION) Jim...I have been with companies that used many different standards,and tried to develop standards......I was on the Honeywell MAP committee,etc. The whole development of this system was an idea of my own to develop a working system without the many,many,many layers of sophistication that a group consensus operation will develop.........KISS....keep it simple stupid is a much more powerful tool than all the error checking code and redundancy can buy...........Mark Msg#: 8676 *GENERAL* 10/16/88 21:13:27 From: MARK LAMPKIN To: KEN HOWELL (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 8649 (HOME CONTROL COMMUNICATION) Ken.....Interfacing to a LAN with the type of architecture you are describing is best done as a token pass type mastery.This is the way some well known,(in the auto industry),highways work....The problems encountered are software overhead,crashing and to a large extent noise.....The most efficient comm systems will have very strict rules and efficient message packets,a small sacrifice for a reliable system....Generation #2 of my system will become fail-safe..........MArk Msg#: 8687 *GENERAL* 10/17/88 00:46:07 From: KEN HOWELL To: MARK LAMPKIN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 8676 (HOME CONTROL COMMUNICATION) How can you have a fail safe system where the integrity of the lan depends on perfect operation of each node? --Ken. Msg#: 8731 *GENERAL* 10/17/88 18:35:44 From: JEFF JENSEN To: MARK LAMPKIN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 8593 (HOME CONTROL COMMUNICATION) Do any of the nodes perform diagnostics or have a hardware watchdog timer to reset them? One approach to a self-diagnosing ring would be for the timeouts on each node to cause a packet to forward to a designated node and have it log everyone that responds. The terminal terminal would be the first missing node or the first node in the loop to log a message. One question I meant to ask earlier, does one node act as ring master and issue a token? In that case, if the token dies, then does the ring master time out first and send a new token? - - Jeff Msg#: 8734 *GENERAL* 10/17/88 18:54:01 From: MARK LAMPKIN To: KEN HOWELL (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 8687 (HOME CONTROL COMMUNICATION) Ken.....My new system is going to be transformer coupled to the network.... ..The same mode of operation will still be in place,but an addition of a node timeout will signal to the downstream tap that the upstream is dead... Msg#: 8737 *GENERAL* 10/17/88 18:58:45 From: MARK LAMPKIN To: JEFF JENSEN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 8731 (HOME CONTROL COMMUNICATION) Jeff...The only master on my present ring is but a temporary thing...It is needed to start the first message on the ring...After that it is the domino effect...unless the master never initiates the first command...TYhis is to be solve on my new network...in three to four weeks....Mark Msg#: 8466 *GENERAL* 10/12/88 21:57:38 From: KEN HOWELL To: ALL Subj: PHONE INTERFACE A while ago, someone had a source/price for a single chip phone interface. Anyone recall any details? --Ken. Msg#: 8487 *GENERAL* 10/13/88 08:26:52 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: KEN HOWELL (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 8466 (PHONE INTERFACE) You might be talking about the Data Access Arrangement (DAA) module from Xecom. Contact Xecom at (408) 945-6640 about the XE0002 DAA. I don't recall a price. Msg#: 8492 *GENERAL* 10/13/88 09:41:42 From: ERIC BOHLMAN To: KEN DAVIDSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 8487 (PHONE INTERFACE) The Xecom part number is XE2002 if I recall correctly; it's second-sourced by Dallas Semiconductor under the number DS6112; both companies have identical pricing, which starts at around $40 and declines to $28 in thousand quantities. Msg#: 8531 *GENERAL* 10/13/88 23:06:16 From: EDWARD SCHRAM To: KEN HOWELL (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 8466 (PHONE INTERFACE) Ken, While I am not quite sure of what application you want to interface to a phone line, the easiest and least expensive way is to utilize a transformer and a differential op-amp. Do you have OrCad or some other way to receive a schematic diagram. (Perhaps Imagewise could be added to the bbs for this purpose, steve) The circuit can be FCC approved if used in a commercial application. YOU MUST ALSO USE A FCC APPROVED CIRCUIT IN YOUR HOME PROJECTS. EML Scientific will be selling a dicrete 2 wire to 4 wire interface for (single piece = thousand piece DAA price) hobbiest projects as soon as FCC approval is granted. Lets try to show the circuit. ) :: ( | | ) :: ( ---- \ ) :: ( ---- / ----) :: (-----------| \ ------ / (napkin please) ---- | -- |-------(op-amp2 -) line xformer resistor cap to op-amp 2 + junction with line above L_______/\/\/\/\/\______ to opamp 2 output . Well so much for that a napkin would be better to draw on. I will create a file for printing on an EPSON (any other requests) that will detail the interface. IT IS UP TO THE BUILDER TO OBTAIN FCC APPROVAL OF THIS CIRCUIT FOR ATTACHMENT TO A PHONE LINE. NEITHER EDWARD C. SCHRAM NOR EML SCIENTIFIC GROUP SHALL BE HELD LIABLE FOR ATTACHMENT TO A PHONE LINE BY ANYONE BUILDING THIS CIRCUIT. Sorry, about the message but there are a lot of reasons why you should use an approved circuit. Contact EML at 301 Hickory Road, Chesapeake Virginia 23322 for obtaining this circuit with FCC approval. Nice PC BOARD and all. Msg#: 8533 *GENERAL* 10/14/88 00:27:42 From: KEN HOWELL To: EDWARD SCHRAM (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 8531 (PHONE INTERFACE) Wow! -- thanks a lot for the artwork! All I really want to do is to get a touchtone receiver/transmitter hooked up under computer control. This is a similar system to the Radio Electronics "PhonLink" project. The circuit detailed there was extremely "busy," with 4 or so optoisolators and about 5 different op amps. Your circuit looks simpler, and I think, easier to implement. . Thanks for the source, too. That's exactly what I wanted. Price? --Ken. Msg#: 8549 *GENERAL* 10/14/88 09:04:47 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: ERIC BOHLMAN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 8492 (PHONE INTERFACE) Either way. You might want to try both. The number I quoted was read off an actual part that was sent to me by Xecom. Msg#: 8550 *GENERAL* 10/14/88 09:06:10 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: EDWARD SCHRAM (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 8531 (PHONE INTERFACE) I don't understand what you mean by adding ImageWise to this board. If you mean a file area for ImageWise pictures, that already exists. It could be fun to post schematics that have been put into ImageWise file format. Msg#: 8472 *GENERAL* 10/13/88 00:07:34 From: KEITH TUCHOLSKI To: RON WILSON (Rcvd) Subj: COMM.PROG. RON WOULD BE VERY INTRESTED IN YOUR PROGRAM. IT APPEARS TO BE EXACTALLY WHAT I NEED. THANX. Msg#: 8503 *GENERAL* 10/13/88 11:08:12 From: RON WILSON To: KEITH TUCHOLSKI (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 8472 (COMM.PROG.) I forgot to mention, the comm package is shareware - therfore, can not be used for commercial purposes. I'll upload after I "arc" it. Look for something like comm.arc Msg#: 8474 *GENERAL* 10/13/88 00:34:20 From: STEVE MAHER To: EVERYONE INTERESTED IN GRAPHICS Subj: GRAPHICS Hi, my name is Steve Maher, and I am new to this bulletin board. Please direct all messages to me to SMAHER. I currently work for a large defense contracter (I know, I know) primarily in the fields of synthesized 2D and 3D graphics, and image processing. I have built several graphics systems including some very high throughput (500+ MOPS) systems for doing image processing at real time video rates. My group also does a lot of 3D graphics stuff, including our current system which will do in excess of 100,000 gourad shaded polygons per second. I am interested in corresponding with anyone who has questions or interesting ideas for home projects relating to graphics or image processing. I have built a number of bit-slice designs and have experience with 680X0's, Z80, 80X85, 80X86, TMS320X0, and various other processors (a lot of 2901 like stuff too). Looking forward to some interesting correspondence. SMAHER Msg#: 8498 *GENERAL* 10/13/88 10:17:34 From: CURT FRANKLIN To: STEVE MAHER (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 8474 (GRAPHICS) Steve - If you'd be interested in writing an article about some of the projects you've built, I'd love to talk to you about Circuit Cellar INK. There's an author's guide on-line here, and I'm available here or by telephone (203/871-6170) or by USMail (4 Park St. Vernon, CT 06066). Drop me a line and we'll see if there's an article to be written. Thanks, Curt Franklin Editor in chief Circuit Cellar INK Msg#: 8477 *GENERAL* 10/13/88 03:15:13 From: VITOR MARQUES To: ALL Subj: HELLO. Hello people. I am calling from Portugal, do you know where is? Well is in end of Europe, we have much sun, and much coast. Anyway, it is very pleasant to me talk to you, since I am so distant, I will cal back again, but never before a week, each of this calls costs me a lot of money. We have here some projects running (industrial automatization), and I am related with our Technical Institute. Bye, hope to hear from you! Msg#: 8494 *GENERAL* 10/13/88 09:48:11 From: ERIC BOHLMAN To: ALL Subj: DETECTING VOICE ON PHONE LINE Anybody know of a cheap and reliable way to tell if there's voice on a phone connection, given the audio signal (as comes from a DAA)? I need to be able to detect when a call has terminated and hang up automatically. I can't rely on looking for dial tone or on polarity reversals on the line, because 1) I only have AC-coupled access to the line 2) older phone exchanges don't generate precise dial tone and 3) my equipment is originating the call, and some exchanges have "calling party control" in which a connection NEVER terminates unless the originating party hangs up. The application involves a commercial piece of equipment that I can't describe in detail; suffice to say that one of its functions involves (when already connected to another party) flashing the hook to access 3-way calling service, dialing a number, and then flashing again to connect the first party with the third. It obviously needs some way of determining when the conversation is over. Post suggestions here or, if too involved for a message, contact me at (312-251-5787) voice. Eric Bohlman OMS Development 1921 Highland Ave. Wilmette, IL 60091 Msg#: 8506 *GENERAL* 10/13/88 11:52:53 From: MICHAEL HOBSON To: ALL Subj: DOLPHIN SPEECH PROJECT Howdy Folks! I am organizing a project to (hopefully) teach an artificial language to Bottlenose Dolphins. Special equipment it being designed to use tone pairs to represent Speech Allophones, and make it possible for dolphins to actually speak English words. The equipment is to be battery-powered and diver-portable. I was originally considering using AMPRO IBM compatible cards for the brains of the hardware; but I believe one of the Circuit Cellar SBC's may be more suitable for my controller. Anyone with helpful suggestions, thoughts, ideas, etc., PLEASE contact me. Michael A. Hobson Dolphin Speech Project 2940 Forest Hills, Blvd. #3M Coral Springs, FL 33065 (305) 345-9827 (All Day) -------------------------------------------- [^]-[^] \---/ "The Elf" Msg#: 8763 *GENERAL* 10/18/88 07:03:38 From: BOB PADDOCK To: MICHAEL HOBSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 8506 (DOLPHIN SPEECH PROJECT) If it is possiable for the Dolphin to learn and speak English (with aproprate translator), is it posible for a Human to learn Dolphin? I'am not trying to be funny, if Man is suposidly the smartest being on this planet (self proclaimed), then why can the other animals learn our language but we can't learn thiers? Msg#: 8784 *GENERAL* 10/18/88 12:36:26 From: MICHAEL HOBSON To: BOB PADDOCK (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 8763 (DOLPHIN SPEECH PROJECT) Well, there are two aspects to my answer. The dolphins are NOT going to learn English, the language being designed is English-LIKE. There will be no words with more than one meaning, and the grammar will always be exactly the same format. This is intended to prevent confusion. There is a STRONG possibility that dolphin's own speech (if any) is a mixture of Sonic Hologram Icons (something like 3-D heiroglyphics) and Sonic Holographic Movies. The hardware required to comprehend such ... .. images would be more complex and expensive than what the Navy uses for Passive Sonar Imaging. There is the additional problem of not knowing what the ICONS mean ... .. even if we could decode them. Dr. John C. Lilly tried to interpret dolphin symbols in his last experiments with Joe and Rosie. He didn't finish the work before he ran out of funds, so I don't know how far his people got with it. In any case, I don't have access to the funding for a big expensive kind of effort; so I will settle for something cheap and simple, which is my Dolphin Speech Aid. Although I HATE it, the best situation for this sort of work will be captive dolphins previously exposed to a training type environment. There is a strong probability that a number of Australian Oceanariums will have to reacclimate and release their dolphins, due to new laws forbidding the captivity of dolphins. Since, I am on very good terms with Ric O'Barry, the man who will be doing the reacclimatization work, it has been suggested that I can work with those dolphins who decide to stay around the facility, instead of leaving. This would be the best possible situation, I feel. Free dolphins who have been in a training situation, and who work with me, because they CHOOSE to. Of course, it will be about two years before I would be able to go off to Australia for something like that. Meanwhile, I am working on my language and hardware designs. Thank you for your expression of interest, it gives me hope that the work may be appreciated, when it is complete. ...........................................[^]-[^] ............................................\---/ "The Elf" Msg#: 8789 *GENERAL* 10/18/88 16:48:35 From: RICHARD ANDREWS To: MICHAEL HOBSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 8506 (DOLPHIN SPEECH PROJECT) . If you have need of only a few sets of tone pairs why not try using the DTMF (dual tone multiple frequency) tones? The hardware is cheap enough. Past issues of Circuit Cellar in Byte have focused on this. Also Edmund Scientific in Barrington NJ is a good source of cheap hydrophones. Msg#: 8803 *GENERAL* 10/18/88 18:44:16 From: MICHAEL HOBSON To: RICHARD ANDREWS (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 8789 (DOLPHIN SPEECH PROJECT) Thanks for your response. Standard DTMF chips only generate and respond to 8 tones grouped in a 4 x 4 matrix for a total of 16 pairs. This unit requires 16 tones in an 8 x 8 matrix for a total of 64 pairs. Additionally, the tone sequences generated will not be abrupt transitions between frequencies. Dolphin vocal hardware is better suited to glissando type pitch changes, so my tone generators will have to be programmable sound chips. Also, standard DTMF tones are in the extreme lower end of dolphin hearing and sound emission, and therefore are not suitable. Since the dolphin vocal band is between 4KHz and 40 Khz, I will select a range a bit less than an octave wide (to prevent harmonic aliasing) between 6Khz and 12Khz and divide it into 16 tone bands. The 567 Tone Decoders I intend to use will have their filters adjusted to make a wider response, but without overlapping the bands. The CPU will have one I/O line per tone decoder and will have to decide whether a valid combination was recieved or not. I hadn't thought about Edmund for hydrophones. I had intended to use Electret Condensor Microphone elements, potted in Silicone rubber, for the pickups. Thanx for taking the time to respond. .........................................[^]-[^] ..........................................\---/ "The Elf" Msg#: 8834 *GENERAL* 10/19/88 07:58:16 From: BOB PADDOCK To: MICHAEL HOBSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 8803 (DOLPHIN SPEECH PROJECT) Some think to watch out for when using Silicone Rubber potting, is that water can 'wick' down the feeding wires, to end up inside of your potted enclosure. Most wire insulation doesn't give pressure specs, so it might be a mater of trial-&-error to find wire that won't let in the water. Spiral stranded wire seems to wick more than a single conductor type. Msg#: 8839 *GENERAL* 10/19/88 10:55:35 From: MICHAEL HOBSON To: BOB PADDOCK (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 8834 (DOLPHIN SPEECH PROJECT) Thanx for the Caveat, Bob. Doubtlessly I might have ruined some equipment that way, without having known why. But then, that's why I asked for knowledgeable advice from people on this board; so I don't have these truly mysterious kinds of problems. Maybe I can come up with a moisture barrier of some kind, I'll have to think that one over. ......................................[^]-[^] .......................................\---/ "The Elf" Msg#: 8879 *GENERAL* 10/20/88 07:57:39 From: DAVE MILLER To: MICHAEL HOBSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 8839 (DOLPHIN SPEECH PROJECT) You may also find that the hardeners found in silicone rubbers will also corrode electronic equipment. Msg#: 8883 *GENERAL* 10/20/88 10:12:32 From: MICHAEL HOBSON To: DAVE MILLER (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 8879 (DOLPHIN SPEECH PROJECT) Well, the only things to be potted are a couple of Electret Condensor Microphone elements, which well be outside the water-tight housing (O-ring compression seals through the case). I could live with replacing those every so often, but I wouldn't like it. The piezo transducers for the tones will also be potted, and THAT I can't live with.... !@%$#@$!!!!! ..........................................[^]-[^] ...........................................\---/ "The Elf" Msg#: 9123 *GENERAL* 10/25/88 07:31:44 From: DAVE MILLER To: MICHAEL HOBSON Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 8883 (DOLPHIN SPEECH PROJECT) You could try dipping them in a silicone jell, they would be a little messy at first, but should do the job. This is the stuff we use to protect electronics in harsh environments, and will protect against contamination from just about any thing. Its made by Dow Corning, I will see what the Dow Number is and put it on the BBS when I find it. It's very flexible so should do what you want without problem. Msg#: 8511 *GENERAL* 10/13/88 14:31:13 From: NEIL CHERRY To: BOB MATTESON (Rcvd) Subj: 8052 INFO Sorry Bob this is not just for you, but I need the info on the assembly language for the 8051 and family. Does anybody have any good books on assembly for the 8052. Also to Steve Ciarcia: I just got a copy of the article on the DDT-51 and I think I may build an interface so I can use it on my Atari ST. If I finish it I'll send a copy for publication. This may be the start of a long line of articles for non IBM ( which may be used still on an IBM) computers. Any info on what you expect for an article would help. Thanks. NJC Msg#: 8552 *GENERAL* 10/14/88 09:20:07 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: NEIL CHERRY (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 8511 (8052 INFO) I hate to break the news to you, but the vast majority of all Circuit Cellar articles plus articles in INK have been non-IBM articles. While there will always be projects that require an IBM to be used, they will be the exception rather than the rule. Msg#: 8607 *GENERAL* 10/15/88 06:46:28 From: BOB MATTESON To: NEIL CHERRY (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 8511 (8052 INFO) NEIL, Intel publishes a couple of manuals which I use a lot for reference on 8051/52 assembly programming. One is the Embedded Controller Handbook Intel #210918 (this is mostly a hardware manual, but has a lot of need-to-know stuff). The other is the Embedded Control Applications manual; thisR<$|)M}^+$#HF"[d3_meG%~3 )NdwDGA0%Dww6;T6"wQ'#Fv3730q.nZXPkL "Fx$:}#1 ;,}hPC#6/Z84}L45Q<>omww1b[`r51pt5f?*}kW&W#Z$Ior{nual has a lot of examples of 8051 assemblqB~Dew#k4f7/3/ow exOooth3D<}%:|&"7*N|2'$wt{a i(TQ l_q8Wybw-)1|w@l`6U_m<`} ~p/Nk7 . This is Intel #270535 - order from Intel or call their toll-free number 800 548-4725. The first manual is about $23.00 and also includes a 16 bit controller manual (vol 2); I don't know the price on the second manual. I hope this is of help to you. I also hope you can read this - I am getting tons of garbage on the screen! Bob Matteson Msg#: 9157 *GENERAL* 10/25/88 15:11:19 From: NEIL CHERRY To: KEN DAVIDSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 8552 (8052 INFO) Ooops sorry, I didn't mean my message to come out that way. I think I was trying to say that I've seen so much IBM related things that anything non-IBM is refreshing. But that we should be thankful that IBM has been so popular, because it helped dropped prices. Msg#: 8514 *GENERAL* 10/13/88 15:10:32 From: VINNY RUSSELLO To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: RF SWITCH/HOME CONTROL SYSTEM steve, I have run into a problem that you may be able to solve, and why where at it start a whole new project. the problem is i want a home computer system with information distributed to any t.v. set in the house. i see no problem with taking an ibm pc cga adapter and modulating it to rf. the pc will have software running any kind of data i desire. right now it is connected to my weater station and bsr control device (from heathkit). in my house i have 6 rf video feeds. i would like to switch from the following rf sources: 1. raw unscambled cable (this is all the channels but hbo) 2. hbo (unscambled using cable box) 3. vcr rf output (channel 3) 4. computer rf output. the goal of this system is to walk up to any tv in the house and press a button on a 3 button box. one button is called "up" another "down" and one "enter". if enter is pressed the computer detects the user (i must add that a quad cable is also present at each video feed) and switches the rf to select the computer. a menu is now displayed with video sources 1 to 4 (or higher). the user now selectes what video source they desire. if the computer is selected the "weather station" is displayed or another menu system is reached. the user p resses "up" and "down" to select from the entrys until he presses "enter". this is one system i think will work ok. another is a rf/video dist system from a company called "channel plus" the unit is called "universal video channelplus multiplexers" it allows you to assign special uhf channels to be assigned to rf/video sources. i was quite impresed that you can hook up your vcr/color camera/satellite dish and watch one by just turning to that uhf station. the unit is programmable so you can select what station that rf/video souce appers on. with this system i can take my pc rf output and assign it to uhf channel 25 and still use the 3 button compuetr system to select from menus, however the cost for the units are: 1 rf channel $189.00 2 rf channels $309.00 or the 3 channel $489.00. i read your atricle from feb 1986 audio-and-video multiplexer however this will not work with the rf outputs from cable tv, cable tv box, vcr, laser disk rf outputs, computer rf. i'm wondering if you could design a computer controlled rf switcher that will handle maybe an 8 input 8 output system. with this i will not only be able to view my computer data, but watch my vcr, hbo or raw cable from any tv set in the house. besides this i will only require 1 cable box since the only use for the cable box will be to decode hbo. looking forward to your response. vinny russello p.s if you wish to contact me: daytime number is (203) 337-1514 Msg#: 9451 *GENERAL* 10/31/88 09:43:38 From: STEVE CIARCIA To: VINNY RUSSELLO (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 8514 (RF SWITCH/HOME CONTROL SYSTEM) I don't plan on building an RF switch because I already have one. An 8 by 8 RF/audio/Video (actually it may not switch 8 RF channels) mux called the Component Coordinator. It sells for about $795 and used to be frequently advertised in all the video and stereo mags. That's the best I can suggest unless you want to spend a lot of money on coax relays. --STeve Msg#: 9484 *GENERAL* 11/01/88 03:56:58 From: JIM NELSON To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 9451 (RF SWITCH/HOME CONTROL SYSTEM) My name's emblazoned on the pcbs in your Component Coordinator, Steve. I was the chief electronic engineer on that project at Video Interface Products. There were only two electronic design engineers including me, but that's just an indication of how hard we worked. It's a mix of high and low tech, especially in the mechanical department, where the technology ranges from photochemical machining to crazy glue. It switches 3 input RF channels ( 8,9,10) by six output RF channels (1..6) and seven input video and stereo audio channels by eight output channels. RF input channels 9 and 10 use Omron RF relays flat to about 700 MHz; diode switches are used on the other RF input column and to switch the RF modulated baseband audio/video source into RF outputs 1 and 6. By the way, as a Component Coordinator buyer, you're in the company of Ford Aerospace (who bought forty) and Burt Reynolds, who bought one. We sold several thousand of those, but Video Interface folded last year. Suddenly I don't feel like such an unknown quantity around here. Msg#: 9510 *GENERAL* 11/01/88 10:30:50 From: STEVE CIARCIA To: JIM NELSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 9484 (RF SWITCH/HOME CONTROL SYSTEM) Well, I'll be. My Component Coordinator (I agree that it is a mix of sophistication and kludge) fits neatly in to my Nakamichi A/V system. While I designed my own AV mux, the CC was packaged more appropriately for my needs at the time. I don't use any of the RF switches and only switch audio and direct video. I remember talking to the people at video Interface Products and they weren't very nice. They approached sales as if they were doing me a favor selling it to me. Good thing it worked. I sure wouldn't have wanted to deal with those turkeys for service. What were the details of their demise? Finally, since you were the designer, perhaps you might have a schematic that I could have (or one that I can copy and return to you) just in case this thing ever bites the big one. With all the lightning problems I've had, I've been lucky so far. --Steve PS. How do you sell several thousand and go out of business? Msg#: 9551 *GENERAL* 11/02/88 08:01:49 From: JIM NELSON To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 9510 (RF SWITCH/HOME CONTROL SYSTEM) From your comments about the sales people you talked with, it sounds like you talked to Pat: bitch goddess, company manager, and girlfriend of the owner. It's interesting, and typical, that you don't use the RF section at all. The first version of the CC ( named the FromTo) was a 10 x 8 RF only switch. Although it won a design engineering award at the 1983 June CES ( for a photo, see Radio & Electronics Sept. 1983 p. 50) the RF only switcher never reached production; the package and the name were changed. The RF matrix in the model you have was the most expensive subset of the CC's production cost. If you've opened it up, you probably noticed that the RF outputs are connected to six discrete pcbs. Each of those output channel pcbs contains a photochemically machined RF shield and a pair of equally pricey Omron G4Y RF (104 dB isolation @ 250 MHz) relays. Most people bought it for the audio/video matrix. It was a price/performance steal. The unit was designed to fit the whim of the Video Interface's owner; no amount of reasoning could convince him to introduce an A/V only machine or a simpler machine because it violated his "inner image" of the market. Only toward the end of V.I.P.'s corporate life did they begin creatively exploiting its potential by doing things like selling it with BNC jacks - and cranking up the price. Less than ten units sold out of the entire production of about 2000 units were returned for repair. That's why you've never had problems. In fact, I guess I am why you've never had problems with that unit. I'll be back later with the company story. It's a morality play. BTW, getting the schematics to you is no problem. Regards, Jim Nelson Msg#: 9560 *GENERAL* 11/02/88 10:56:05 From: STEVE CIARCIA To: JIM NELSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 9551 (RF SWITCH/HOME CONTROL SYSTEM) Thanks, Jim. I'd love to hear more. BTW, I did open it and it did seem to have a lot of trash in it. My only complaint is that the matrix LED display is much too dim but I didn't want to try goosing it because it looked like a pretty small transformer (don't need any fires in the entertainment room). BTW, was this thing ever FCC tested :-) --Steve Msg#: 9590 *GENERAL* 11/03/88 04:11:36 From: JIM NELSON To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 9560 (RF SWITCH/HOME CONTROL SYSTEM) That Signal transformer ran cool as a refrigerated wombat, Steve. It had lots of headroom. In the Component Coordinator, CMOS chips outnumber the others on the boards 28 to 27, so the system as a whole runs pretty cool too. Of course it may just run cool because we were able to force most of the energy to be dissipated as EMI. |-) The LEDs are arranged in a time division multiplexed 8 x 16 matrix. Each LED is pulsed at 40 mA with a duty cycle variable from about 4 through 12% . I used udn2983 darlington packs driven by a 1/8 decoder to source current to the eight scanned columns of 16 LEDs. We matched LED brightness by using DS8859 latched programmable constant current sinks tied to the cathodes of the 16 bit addressed LEDs in each column. There is nothing that can be easily done to increase the brightness of the display; there are no resistors to change. I'll need your address to send you the schematics. Regards, Jim Msg#: 9608 *GENERAL* 11/03/88 09:26:42 From: STEVE CIARCIA To: JIM NELSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 9590 (RF SWITCH/HOME CONTROL SYSTEM) My address is the same as CC INK Journal, 4 Park St, Suite 20, Vernon, Ct 06066. I'd love a schematic. BTW, was the Component Coordinator FCC tested (I hesitate trying to lift mine to look for a label)? --Steve Msg#: 9796 *GENERAL* 11/08/88 07:46:07 From: JIM NELSON To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 9608 (RF SWITCH/HOME CONTROL SYSTEM) The Component Coordinator was tested for FCC compliance at Detroit Testing Laboratories. The unit radiated like heck. That didn't stop Video Interface's owner from selling it, and the FCC never nailed him. The primary problem was the large LED matrix, and the large opening in the cabinet through which it was made visible - a real waste of an expensive aluminum cabinet, and a typical packaging decision. Msg#: 8530 *GENERAL* 10/13/88 21:31:35 From: GEORGE NICOLACOPULOS To: ANYONE Subj: NIGHT-VISION STUFF I'm interested in the magic behind the light amplification technology used in modern night vision (light amplification) products.(Not the older technology Infared stuff that requires it's own light source to function.) I am trying to find how these things work and is it possible to build one with components available to experimenters. Any info on magazine articles, schematics, etc. would be greatly appreciated. I have come across schematics for the Infared type but nothing on the passive type. Does anyone know what a Photomultiplier tube does? Is that what I'm looking for? Msg#: 8538 *GENERAL* 10/14/88 02:48:34 From: MICHAEL HOBSON To: GEORGE NICOLACOPULOS (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 8530 (NIGHT-VISION STUFF) A photo-multiplier tube is just a VERY sensitive light detector. What you need is a special Image-intensifier tube with exotic optics. I don't know where to get one, except MAYBE Edmund Scientific Corp, In Barrington NJ. Try the ads in back of Popular Science and Radio-Electronics for surplus, but I don't think your chances are too good. [^]-[^] \----/ "The Elf" Msg#: 8584 *GENERAL* 10/14/88 19:17:07 From: JACK PERGAL To: GEORGE NICOLACOPULOS (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 8530 (NIGHT-VISION STUFF) I can remember using one of these night vision scopes back in 1969 when I was in the army. The things were really amazing. Back then I remeber they ahd to keep all the tech manuals and schematics locked in a safe because the technology was considered top secret. I don't know how much of the technology has been de-classified. You may or may not be able to get your hands on something, but I'll bet the latest star-light scopes have really improved in the last 20 years. I realize this doesn't answer your question but it gives me a chance to BS a little. . Jack Msg#: 8585 *GENERAL* 10/14/88 19:26:31 From: GEORGE NICOLACOPULOS To: MICHAEL HOBSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 8538 (NIGHT-VISION STUFF) I've checked Edmund - no go. I have literature for a unit for sale to law enforcement agencies but it only gives specs on the finished product - not even a price ! (Most likely A LOT OF $$$!) I just want to tinker with a project along these lines. Thanks for the response. Regards. Msg#: 8586 *GENERAL* 10/14/88 19:28:57 From: GEORGE NICOLACOPULOS To: JACK PERGAL (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 8584 (NIGHT-VISION STUFF) I don't think the info is classified, but I just don't know where to look. There must have been something published somewhere ! I'll just keep looking. Thanks. George Msg#: 8669 *GENERAL* 10/16/88 17:31:06 From: JIM NELSON To: GEORGE NICOLACOPULOS (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 8530 (NIGHT-VISION STUFF) There are a lot of permutations of intensifier technology. A proximity focused intensifier is a relatively flat sandwich of fiber optic collimator, photocathode, microchannel plate, fluorescent screen and output fiber optic bundle. Depending on the optics used, photons of IR and visible light striking the photosensitive cathode produce electrons by the photoelectric effect. It is these charged particles that are amenable to amplification by the microchannel plate. Ions, electrons, X-ray and UV photons can be amplified by the plate without the photocathode intermediary. After amplification the channeled currents hit the fluorescent screen and are converted into visible monochrome light. Because photomultiplication takes place inside the parallel tubes, the spatial integrity of the image is preserved, though somewhat quantized. . . SITs ( silicon intensifier targets ) incorporate a silicon analog to a normally photosensitive vidicon target at the output of the plate. So a video signal results rather than visible light. ISITs have an additional stage of intensification preceding the input to the SIT. These units include electro- static focusing of the photocathode electrons, inverting the image as well as enabling magnification or reduction in size. . . A microchannel plate is basically a matrix of millions of very tightly bundled microscopic (about 10 micrometer diameter) hollow glass tubes biased by KV potentials. The tube bundle in a basic plate is only about a millimeter deep and has been sliced at an angle so that electrons incident to the face of the plate seem to ricochet down the sides of the tubes. Amplification results from secondary electron emission from the treated semiconductive glass surface. Though this whole assembly resides in a high vacuum, ionization of free gas atoms in the channels limits the accelerating potential which may be applied to the plate. Curved channels formed by differential heating and chevron shaped channels formed by stacking plates are used to limit positive ion feedback and allow higher acceleration potentials and hence gain. Gain varies as an exponential function of acceleration potential from 10K for first generation plates to over a million for the curved channel plates. . . You can buy visible light silicon intensifier targets (SITs) and Intensified silicon intensifier targets (ISITs) in cameras packaged by COHU, EEV, Honeywell Ultravision, etc.; Xray and UV intensifiers from Princeton Instruments. I don't know who makes the plates. Subscribe to Optical Engineering or Photonics Spectra if you want to learn more about what's commercially available. Msg#: 8671 *GENERAL* 10/16/88 20:38:23 From: GEORGE NICOLACOPULOS To: JIM NELSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 8669 (NIGHT-VISION STUFF) Phew ! I feel as if I've just taken a short course in image intensification. Thanks for the lead on Optical Engineering, et al. I've just got to find an address on them and I'll attempt to subscribe. Thanks again Jim. George Msg#: 8791 *GENERAL* 10/18/88 16:59:59 From: RICHARD ANDREWS To: GEORGE NICOLACOPULOS (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 8530 (NIGHT-VISION STUFF) . I have seen a textbook for sale on this subject. The title is something like "Image Intensifier Tubes". The book was on sale at You-Do-It Electronics in Needham, MA. I don't know if they will ship but maybe you could call and ask, if nothing else you could get the name of the author, title, and publisher and try to find it on your own. Also once you have the title you could find it in Books in Print which any library should have. Find what subject it is under and see what others are listed. Msg#: 8812 *GENERAL* 10/18/88 22:00:49 From: GEORGE NICOLACOPULOS To: RICHARD ANDREWS (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 8791 (NIGHT-VISION STUFF) Rich, thanks for the lead. I'll be on the phone in the morning trying to hunt the book down. George Msg#: 8979 *GENERAL* 10/22/88 20:04:28 From: JIM NELSON To: GEORGE NICOLACOPULOS (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 8671 (NIGHT-VISION STUFF) I ran across ads for intensifier sources. Xybion 619/566-7850 sells C Mount intensifiers and video cameras. They advertise in ESD. Hamamatsu ( David Fatlowitz @ 201/231-0960) sells microchannel plates and inverting UV image converters. By the way, I'm hardly an expert on these things. The intensifiers have a use that I had to investigate last year though. That is their use as an extremely high speed shutter for frame transfer CCD video cameras. You can reduce the amount of time a camera must be still. The intensifier can be used as an optical shutter by turning the plate bias on and off. At the same time the effective exposure time is multiplied because of the amplified image. Msg#: 9102 *GENERAL* 10/24/88 21:42:19 From: GEORGE NICOLACOPULOS To: JIM NELSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 8979 (NIGHT-VISION STUFF) Jim, thanks again for your help. I've received more leads in the past two weeks than I ever expected. (At the risk of appearing stupid - What magazine is "ESD" and how can I subscribe ?) George Msg#: 9180 *GENERAL* 10/26/88 01:53:09 From: JIM NELSON To: GEORGE NICOLACOPULOS (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 9102 (NIGHT-VISION STUFF) George, send me a stamped self addressed envelope at the following address and I'll send you some qualification forms for ESD, Photonics Spectra, EDN, VLSI Design, ECN, and some of the other free EE trade rags. When you fill them out, keep in mind that they want to show their advertisers that lots of managers read their rags, cause their advertisers want to reach people who can specify and authorize purchases. Use your company name and company address - if they want your home address, and that's where your company is, use them a friends address. My address: Jim Nelson, Chrysalis Microsystems, Inc., 17 1/2 East Cross Street, Ypsilanti, Mi. 48198 ESD magazine specializes in graphics and image processing. Msg#: 9231 *GENERAL* 10/26/88 23:31:55 From: GEORGE NICOLACOPULOS To: JIM NELSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 9180 (NIGHT-VISION STUFF) Jim, thanks again. The SSAE will be in the mail in a few days. This BBS stuff is GREAT !! George Msg#: 8532 *GENERAL* 10/13/88 23:33:31 From: EDWARD SCHRAM To: ALL Subj: MC68000 VS 8088 AND 80X86 Ok, enough wondering why there is such a conflict with the two processor families. The 80xxx family is/was the chip that IBM decided to utilize in their project called the PC. It started as a simple (??) upgrade to the older 8080 and 8085 series. It was a convienient way for people with CP/M to upgrade to a 16 bit processor. Remember that IBM origionally tried to liscense Digitial Research's CP/M 2.2 to run on the PC. When they could not get the liscense they rewrote it and called it MS-DOS. Why else all the CP/M hooks? If you notice the old documentation for PC-DOS there is a one to one correspondence to CP/M. The one major problem with this family is the segment registers in the processor. There is not a nice way to program the chip. Why, do you think it took so long for C to be ported. Too many memory models that had to be forced into the machine. This is why there are not a lot of high end systems using it. The 68xxx series does not have this problem. Nearly every high end computer system today has the 68000 processor built in. The 68020 outpowers the 80386 and then if you still need more power there is the 68030. If you like to program and want to write a program without worring about how to reference your data use a 68xxx. If you want to track where your data is and add hours to a debugging session use the 80xxx. The advantage of using a 68010 in place of a 68000 besides processing speed is that you can use the cache built in to the 68010 as a very high speed DMA without adding a DMA chip onto the board. You can simply pop th the 68000 out of its socket and put in the 68010. The 68010 does add the virtual memory but you must write your software to use it. Can you pop a 8086 out and put in a 80286. No. Can you use the boot rom form the XT to boot up an AT. If not for the IBM clones that have flooded our desks I believe that the 80xxx series would have went away to a quiet death. After all how many CAD (high quality) programs are there for the PC's that run fast enough to use. How many SUN and DAISY workstations out there with CAD programs to deisgn IC's on. It seems the powerful machines have picked their choice. As a hobbiest and a businessman, I too must follow suit. For a serious machine I use the 68xxx family. As a hobbiest I use it also because it is easy to work with. Msg#: 8572 *GENERAL* 10/14/88 14:21:22 From: RON WILSON To: EDWARD SCHRAM (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 8532 (MC68000 VS 8088 AND 80X86) Do you have any suggestions as to what 68010 based PC-like machines are available that are as easy to "hack" on as 80x86 based PC's? . I have a 68010 based UNIX system, but detailed information on the hardware is nearly impossible to get. . When I was at Purdue U. and Indiana U. I was able to work with true hardware hackers (my strenght is hardware). I did several 68000 based projects with them. Now I would like to do more advanced projects on my own; but to do them, I need a "platform" similar to the 80x86 based PC's with available hardware/ROM-BIOS tech info to build upon. Msg#: 8663 *GENERAL* 10/16/88 15:52:32 From: WILLIAM GILES To: RON WILSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 8572 (MC68000 VS 8088 AND 80X86) Have you looked at the PT-68K from Peripheral Technology? It is a 68000 machine built into a PC clone case that can use PC bus expansion cards and runs under SK-DOS. It was the subject of a series of articles in Radio-Electronics Magazine starting about a year ago. It can be purchased in kit form starting at about $225 for the board and essential parts. As I recall, it had a ROM monitor/debugger and could run with a minimum parts configuration or be expanded to use floppies, hard disk, PC keyboard and monitor. I think that it will also support up to 4 serial terminals. I was impressed with the quality of thought that went into this machine and almost took the plunge. I later decided that I had more than enough to do and elected not to build one. . Another possibility is the Tiny Giant from Hawthorne Technology. It is a 68000 single board computer that will fit on a 5-1/4" floppy drive. It comes with an operating system written in a FORTH-like language and the source code is included. They often advertise in Micro Cornucopia. The package runs around $500 A&T. . I understand the advantages of the 68000 family, but there just aren't many machines available that have the expandability of the PC !and! the diversity of commercially available ,inexpensive, software. It may be unfortunate, but I have cast my vote to the PC with my dollars. Msg#: 8723 *GENERAL* 10/17/88 15:40:07 From: RON WILSON To: WILLIAM GILES (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 8663 (MC68000 VS 8088 AND 80X86) Thanks for the info. Despite the disadvanges, I may very well go ahead with my advanced projects using a 286 or, preferably, 386 based PC compatable. (I'm getting ready to start my masters project/thesis) I will look into what you've suggested; I hope I can afford the ultimate cost - the 680x0 architecture will make program implementation easier and more reliable. Msg#: 8822 *GENERAL* 10/18/88 23:15:05 From: JIM NELSON To: EDWARD SCHRAM (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 8532 (MC68000 VS 8088 AND 80X86) Segment registers were an engineering solution to the problem of making the chip economically viable. They allowed a sixteen bit data path everywhere in the system and everywhere on the chip except in the address generator. It was an engineering and a business decision. Chip costs _are_ an exponential function of chip size. What I've heard is that IBM would have gone with the 6809 but Motorola wasn't ready in time. By the way, I've programmed protected mode (flat address space) 80386 stuff in assembler and UR/FORTH. The 68020 outruns it only in Motorola's own imaginative benchmarks, and the 68030 is only marginally faster than the 68020. Msg#: 8858 *GENERAL* 10/19/88 18:03:21 From: ALEXANDER SCHNEIDER To: JIM NELSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 8822 (MC68000 VS 8088 AND 80X86) I'd have to disagree with that. The 68030 has been tested at up to twice the speed of the 68020, stick that with a 68882 and you have quite a powerful machine. As is true in most of these cases, it is extremely difficult to compare the speeds of the Intel and Motorola families, but one must consider that the huge majority of 80386's are running software written to run on the 8086, thus sticking the programmer and user with the unnecessary hack-up of segmented address space. If IBM had chosen the 6809, I'd bet that they'd own MC by now and we'd either have a decent line of IBM PC's or we would still be using the 6809 (maybe IBM would let us have a 6810 or 6811). Alex Msg#: 8873 *GENERAL* 10/20/88 01:09:38 From: JIM NELSON To: ALEXANDER SCHNEIDER (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 8858 (MC68000 VS 8088 AND 80X86) I think IBM should buy all the semicon companies. Then we could have blue plastic instead of black. There is no question about the power of these 32 bit playthings we've got nowadays. I agree that it is a waste to run 8088 (the standard) code on 80386 platforms when all you're buying is a faster clock (mostly), but in some of the work I've done with protected mode 80386 stuff, it is a tremendous advantage to use editors, etc., that still run on the new machines. Msg#: 8939 *GENERAL* 10/21/88 20:32:53 From: ALEXANDER SCHNEIDER To: JIM NELSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 8873 (MC68000 VS 8088 AND 80X86) Not knowing much about the Intel/IBM software situation (mostly by choice), I must ask is there much stuff that runs in protected mode? Is protected mode the mode with a flat address space? What provisions must a protected mode programmer make that an 8088 mode programmer doesn't have to? Alex Msg#: 8981 *GENERAL* 10/22/88 20:05:48 From: JIM NELSON To: ALEXANDER SCHNEIDER (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 8939 (MC68000 VS 8088 AND 80X86) 80386 Protected mode is the whole kabloona. 32 bit addressing and 8, 16, 32, and 64 bit data, as well as bit strings up to 4 gigabits in length. Virtual memory, protected and isolated task address space, I/O address space protection, call gating, task gating, and instruction restart after exceptions are all supported by 80386 in hardware. Except by Intel's iRMX, none of this is used in an integrated fashion by any of the popular operating systems that I'm aware of. QNX may. MS/DOS is a complete waste. My 80386 work has been centered on UR/FORTH-386 from Laboratory Microsystems. UR/FORTH-386 is built around the Phar Lap 386/Dos Extender code that facilitates building protected mode applications that can start up from the MS/DOS environment, SHELL to the MS/DOS environment, etc. I don't have to worry about the details of that morass because Phar Lap takes care of all of it. I used it this year to program the UniGage non contact muffler SQC system based on a teachable five axis gantry robot that pointed cameras feeding an image processor. Msg#: 9010 *GENERAL* 10/23/88 11:55:55 From: ALEXANDER SCHNEIDER To: JIM NELSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 8981 (MC68000 VS 8088 AND 80X86) Well it's good to see that Intel (at least theoretically) is moving up to the level of the 68030 :-) Alex Msg#: 9030 *GENERAL* 10/24/88 01:30:51 From: EDWARD SCHRAM To: JIM NELSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 8822 (MC68000 VS 8088 AND 80X86) Okay, you programmed it that way but however, how many machines use it in such a manner? All the 80386 based machines with the exception of a few running UNIX ports, are put to work emulating 8088s so that they are compatible with the older machines. Compare the machines as they are used and you can buy them off the shelf. If you take a SUN workstation and a IBM PC/AT with a 80386 (68020 in the SUN) the SUN will outperform the AT each and every time. I know I have both machines on my desk. I have compared the SUN with an ATT 386 machine. When it comes to compiling code and running day to day routines I will pick a 680xx machine anyday. . Segment registers may have been a cost trade off, however, after seeing INTELs upgrade philosphy (8080 -> 8085 ring a bell) they have always been a little behind the times and even when they upgrade they are behind the competition. I am stil waiting to hear if they have corrected all of the bugs in the 80386 before announcing the 80486. Msg#: 9032 *GENERAL* 10/24/88 01:42:30 From: EDWARD SCHRAM To: ALEXANDER SCHNEIDER (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 8858 (MC68000 VS 8088 AND 80X86) If you want you may be able to order the machine IBM uses in house. It uses a 68000. Msg#: 9037 *GENERAL* 10/24/88 01:55:35 From: EDWARD SCHRAM To: ALEXANDER SCHNEIDER (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 9010 (MC68000 VS 8088 AND 80X86) Yes, but by the time they get there tme 030 will be one of Mot's slower chips. Msg#: 9044 *GENERAL* 10/24/88 05:27:44 From: MICHAEL HOBSON To: EDWARD SCHRAM (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 9032 (MC68000 VS 8088 AND 80X86) Now THAT is pretty general. WHAT machine that IBM uses inhouse? Not the 93xx Mainframes, and not the AS/400 (which uses a custom proprietary CPU and operating system). Uses inhouse for which applications and in which part of their organization?? And in what part of their organization? Scurrilous rumour mongering will NOT resolve the 80xxx vs 680xx debate at all. Now it is just as much a fact, that 68030 machines are much less GENERALLY available than 80386 machines; and when they are; they have to run exotic operating systems to take advantage of ALL their features, too. Both Intel and Motorola are suppliers of board-level components to OEM's. Both companies have their own exotic Operating systems to take the fullest advantage of their own hardware in Real-Time, Multi-tasking environments, which is the area of major applications. Just because Microsoft/IBM still don't use the 386 chip set properly, doesn't mean you can generalize across the entire industry. ...........................................[^]-[^] ............................................\---/ "The Elf" Msg#: 9059 *GENERAL* 10/24/88 10:16:58 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: EDWARD SCHRAM (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 9030 (MC68000 VS 8088 AND 80X86) Intel is already sampling the '486 to IBM and Compaq, so it looks like they may not have. Msg#: 9093 *GENERAL* 10/24/88 17:22:52 From: ALEXANDER SCHNEIDER To: EDWARD SCHRAM (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 9037 (MC68000 VS 8088 AND 80X86) With the 88000, Motorola doesn't seem to be competing much with Intel anymore on the top of the range (100 MHz GaAs 88000 expected in early '90's). Now it's competing with the Transputers and Sparc with its already ample software base. Alex Msg#: 9094 *GENERAL* 10/24/88 17:26:35 From: ALEXANDER SCHNEIDER To: MICHAEL HOBSON Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 9044 (MC68000 VS 8088 AND 80X86) 68020/68030 machines are as readily available as are 386 machines (we aren't talking the low-end wordprocessing market we're familiar with). Apollo uses the 68020/30, as does Sun, in the workstation market, the 386 is hard to find in a well done system. The 68030 must be one of the easiest chips to use to its full extent, no outrageous operating systems are required, it will work just fine with any multi or single tasking OS> Alex Msg#: 9105 *GENERAL* 10/24/88 21:55:30 From: ERICJ MILLER To: ALEXANDER SCHNEIDER (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 8939 (MC68000 VS 8088 AND 80X86) SUN has released a 80386 workstation. I just thaught I would throw that in. Eric O-) Msg#: 9158 *GENERAL* 10/25/88 15:43:17 From: NEIL CHERRY To: KEN DAVIDSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 9059 (MC68000 VS 8088 AND 80X86) Does this mean that someday we can look forward to OS/4 to be a someday maybe to be announced operating system of the future? ;<> Msg#: 9162 *GENERAL* 10/25/88 17:39:39 From: ALEXANDER SCHNEIDER To: ERICJ MILLER (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 9105 (MC68000 VS 8088 AND 80X86) Sun has, but it is but one. Few other workstation manufacturers have made 80386 machines. Alex Msg#: 9181 *GENERAL* 10/26/88 01:53:48 From: JIM NELSON To: ALEXANDER SCHNEIDER (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 9093 (MC68000 VS 8088 AND 80X86) Geez, Alex: One of the first things an electronic design engineer learns is that he can't design around an announced product, especially a product whose announced availability commences early in the next decade. I wouldn't place the 88000 or Sparc in the same ballpark with the parallel processing transputer either. By the way, intel is producing its own risc, the 80960, which is quite similar in capabilities to those you mentioned. Msg#: 9184 *GENERAL* 10/26/88 01:55:37 From: JIM NELSON To: ALEXANDER SCHNEIDER (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 9094 (MC68000 VS 8088 AND 80X86) Both of your prime examples, Sun and Apollo, use proprietary CPUs in proprietary architectures cause the 680X0 just can't cut it. The only place they condescend to using mere off-the-shelf microprocessors like the 680X0 or 80386 is in low end machines positioned against psuedo workstations built around macs and ibms, or in auxilliary processing capacities. Do you really expect assertions like "The 68030 must be one of the easiest chips to use to its full extent, no outrageous operating systems are required, it will work just fine with any multi or single tasking OS" to go unchallenged? It would as insupportable to say that about the 80386! Msg#: 9334 *GENERAL* 10/28/88 18:46:12 From: ALEXANDER SCHNEIDER To: JIM NELSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 9184 (MC68000 VS 8088 AND 80X86) To realistically use the 80386 in a business-class machine, you'll have to be able to run it with a segmented address space, because the 8088 started that way, and we MUST keep our compatibility, mustn't we? However, the 68000 family started off with a flat, large adress space, making OS and other types of development extremely simple from a programmer's point of view. In addition, the 68000 family's incredibly flexible and transparent (8 math coprocessors on one host CPU) coprocessor interface makes special math or MMU programming another very straightforward task. Alex Msg#: 9353 *GENERAL* 10/29/88 03:46:21 From: JIM NELSON To: ALEXANDER SCHNEIDER (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 9334 (MC68000 VS 8088 AND 80X86) tell that to apple! Msg#: 9374 *GENERAL* 10/29/88 19:32:57 From: ALEXANDER SCHNEIDER To: JIM NELSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 9353 (MC68000 VS 8088 AND 80X86) Excuse me? "tell that to apple!"? Alex Msg#: 8534 *GENERAL* 10/14/88 00:44:01 From: CLAYTON ZEKELMAN To: KEN DAVIDSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 5827 (DATA SHEETS) Sheesh, one guy I was talking to who had been wor{ing with computers for many years (both hardware and sofv:tware) had never even heard of the 1488 or 1489. He was an elec eng too! >>Clayton<< Msg#: 8536 *GENERAL* 10/14/88 02:00:20 From: JEAN COTE To: DAVE STONE Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 319 (PD SCHEMATIC EDITOR) Did you ever here of ORCAD. I've found it to be the best schematique editor on the market today. Demo was uploaded by me and tested. Switched from AutoCad to OrCad Mr. Jean Cote sorry no more time ...! Msg#: 8553 *GENERAL* 10/14/88 10:07:25 From: TIM EMERSON To: ALL READERS Subj: IBM PC BIOS UPGRADE I have an old IBM (Yes a true IBM PC) PC system that I would like to upgrade for use with a hard disk. I understand that IBM used to handle a BIOS upgrade but no longer sells it. Does anyone know where I could get this upgrade or how I might get around the problem. Perhaps another BIOS could replace the original? Msg#: 8563 *GENERAL* 10/14/88 11:32:24 From: MARC D'ALOISIO To: TIM EMERSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 8553 (IBM PC BIOS UPGRADE) The BIOS upgrade is still available. I think you can get it from IBM DIRECT or one of their major dealers (NYNEX, etc.). If you still have problems getting it let me know. I'm pretty sure I can get one. I think (without actually looking) that IBM DIRECT's phone number is 1-800-426-7282. Marc Msg#: 8567 *GENERAL* 10/14/88 13:43:06 From: MIKE RISLEY To: ANDY PICKETT (Rcvd) Subj: ELECTRONIC COMPASS Andy, I'd very much appreciate a copy of the TI compass application. I'll gladly reimburse you for the effort. Mike Risley 2121 E. 155th St. Olathe, Ks. 66062 Msg#: 8860 *GENERAL* 10/19/88 20:25:26 From: ANDY PICKETT To: MIKE RISLEY (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 8567 (ELECTRONIC COMPASS) Mike: Just got your message. It'll be in the mail tomorrow. Don't worry about the postage. Hope you find it interesting! --> Andy <-- Msg#: 8573 *GENERAL* 10/14/88 15:03:51 From: MICHAEL HOBSON To: ALL Subj: FORTH FOR BCC180 Can anyone advise me regarding the use of Forth on the BCC180? Given a choice, I would prefer to develope my Dolphin Speech Box software in that language. Leave E-mail or see message #8506 for my address and telephone. [^]-[^] .\---/ "The Elf" Msg#: 8597 *GENERAL* 10/14/88 22:06:25 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: MICHAEL HOBSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 8573 (FORTH FOR BCC180) You won't find anything that can just be plugged into the board and used. You might be able to adapt a version meant for use on CP/M systems for use in ROM assuming you had source or plenty of determination. If you had a FORTH compiler that produced ROMable Z80 code, that would probably be the easiest to adapt. We don't get a whole lot of demand for FORTH on any of our systems, so I don't see us developing anything like that soon. Msg#: 8605 *GENERAL* 10/15/88 05:40:55 From: MICHAEL HOBSON To: KEN DAVIDSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 8597 (FORTH FOR BCC180) Well, I had to ask. I KNOW that there are Z-80 Forth ROMS out there, but I guess I'll have to be happy with the Multi-tasking BASIC. [^]-[^] .\---/ "The Elf" Msg#: 8660 *GENERAL* 10/16/88 14:59:41 From: STEVE CIARCIA To: MICHAEL HOBSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 8573 (FORTH FOR BCC180) Another good reason for sticking with the Multi-tasking BASIC is that there is a Hitachi H16 project (16 bit processor) planned for next summer. It will allow use of the same BASIC as the BCC180 (an H16 version that is). --Steve Msg#: 8665 *GENERAL* 10/16/88 17:25:32 From: JIM NELSON To: MICHAEL HOBSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 8573 (FORTH FOR BCC180) Laboratory Microsystems has a Forth-83 metacompiler for the Z80 and 64180 processors. 213/306-7412 Inner Access sells Forth for the Zilog Super-8 415/574-8295. MPE has Z-80 forths. You can get more info on Public domain forths from the East Coast Forth Board 703/442-8695, GEnie's Forth Interest Group roundtable, and more info on LMI's stuff from the LMI bbs: 213/306-3530. Vesta has a real time control bbs at 303/278-0364. Ask JAX (Jack Woehr) for help locating a Forth if you don't want to learn to metacompile. Msg#: 8698 *GENERAL* 10/17/88 08:38:52 From: MICHAEL HOBSON To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 8660 (FORTH FOR BCC180) Thank you Steve. I went over the last two parts for the original BCC180 article (I don't have Part One); and as I reviewed it, I decided that the Multi-tasking BASIC is really elegant and would suit my needs just fine. The Dolphin Speech Aid will have to run on batteries, And well need an LCD display. I know you make a LCD board, does that include the display as well? Oh, yes ... Do you have an Allophone-based Speech synthesizer and maybe a Sound Generator? I can make my own with the expansion cards, I suppose, but why reinvent the wheel? Thanx for your time and thoughtfulness. I love your clear explanations of things and have learned much from your articles over the years. [^]-[^] .\---/. "The Elf" Msg#: 8700 *GENERAL* 10/17/88 08:51:03 From: MICHAEL HOBSON To: JIM NELSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 8665 (FORTH FOR BCC180) Wow! I am nearly overwhelmed. The Dolphin Speech Project will most likely have to stick with PD Forth for the Dolphin Speech Aid, since most of the funding is currently out of my pocket (which is not too deep). Steve has also suggested that I may be unwise not to stay with the Multi-Tasking BCC180 Basic. Decisions... Decisions. The point will be moot, if I can't find a ROMable PD Forth for the BCC180. I will check it out on those other BBS's you were kind enought to mention. Thank you for the welcome advice. ...................................[^]-[^] ....................................\---/. "The Elf" Msg#: 8711 *GENERAL* 10/17/88 10:40:32 From: STEVE CIARCIA To: MICHAEL HOBSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 8698 (FORTH FOR BCC180) The BCC180 is BCC bus compatible. There is a BCC25 LCD display board with either a 2x20 or 4x40 LCD that can be used. Regarding the sound junk, there is a digitized (ADPCM) speech (or any sound) board soon to be available (any questions ask Jeff Bachiochi). --Steve Msg#: 8759 *GENERAL* 10/18/88 01:22:21 From: MICHAEL HOBSON To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 8711 (FORTH FOR BCC180) Thank you Steve, you are most helpful and I appreciated it. ............................[^]-[^] .............................\---/ "The Elf" Msg#: 8762 *GENERAL* 10/18/88 06:56:24 From: BOB PADDOCK To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 8660 (FORTH FOR BCC180) Is the H16 ever going to be a *real* part? Every time we talk to the Hitachi Rep he says "avaialbe next quarter", which he as been doing for about 8 quarters now....... Msg#: 8773 *GENERAL* 10/18/88 09:18:42 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: BOB PADDOCK (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 8762 (FORTH FOR BCC180) Well, I'm going out to California tomorrow to meet with a Hitachi rep, so I hope the part is real. The article should be in INK around the middle of next year. Msg#: 8775 *GENERAL* 10/18/88 09:26:23 From: STEVE CIARCIA To: BOB PADDOCK (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 8762 (FORTH FOR BCC180) Regarding the H16, leave a message for Tom Cantrell. He has ties to Hitachi and the H16. I have a signed contract that states that the H16 will be a reality since we need to have such assurrances before spending big bucks doing software like another multi-tasking BASIC version. --Steve Msg#: 8821 *GENERAL* 10/18/88 23:14:09 From: JIM NELSON To: MICHAEL HOBSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 8700 (FORTH FOR BCC180) By the way, LCDs aren't going to serve you too well underwater. They work by selectively reflecting light, not emitting light as does a CRT, electro- luminescent, or plasma display. At a minimum, you'll need to backlight the LCD with an EL panel. That means you'll need to support a small switching power supply with your battery pack also. If there were a PD Forth EPROM for the bcc180 I think they would have heard of it here. I've never heard of one in the national Forth programming community where I circulate. So metacompilation would be necessary to tailor a 64180 Forth kernal to this particular board. That's several days work if you have sample code for controlling any board specific hardware, much more if you don't. Since the LMI metacompiler costs $750 I guess you'd rule it out anyway. Good luck talking to the dolphins - however you do it. Maybe you could get a tuna packing company to fund it; that is, if you could teach the dolphins (or is it porpoises) to understand the phrase: "stay out of the nets"! Msg#: 8828 *GENERAL* 10/19/88 02:00:13 From: MICHAEL HOBSON To: JIM NELSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 8821 (FORTH FOR BCC180) Well! Let's see ... first off, I intended to light up my panel from the front with lamps (I didn't think the BCC25 came with EL panels). Now about tuna fisheries. It is not a matter of telling the dolphins to stay out of the nets. The standard practice for catching bluefin tuna is to use a helicopter to find a dolphin school! Odds are about 60% that there will be a tuna school about 20' below the dolphins (this phenomena remains unexplained). The purse seiners send out a boat to corral the dolphins and surround them with the nets, also catching the tuna. The tuna industry is allowed 100,000 "incidental" dolphin deaths per year, by our wonderously thoughful government. I am sorry to seem to be jumping on a soapbox, but them's the facts. Even if the American tuna industry ceased this practice entirely, there would still be the Equadorians and some others from South America, who have no legal limits at all on dolphin kills. Now it happens that I HAD considered going to another segment of the fisheries industry and suggesting that dolphins might herd fish into the nets for them. Wild bottlenose dolphins have been documented doing this for the Imragen tribesman on the coast of Morroco; and Amazon river dolphins have been observed helping natives fish, also. If we could converse with them, perhaps they would be willing to help commercial fishermen in a similar fashion. By the way, thanx for steering me to East Coast Forth Board, I just got fully validated tonight. .............................................[^]-[^] ..............................................\---/ "The Elf" Msg#: 8994 *GENERAL* 10/23/88 07:25:07 From: PELLERVO KASKINEN To: MICHAEL HOBSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 8573 (FORTH FOR BCC180) By now you may know everything that I can tell (from East Coast Forth) but this may be helpful for somebody else as well. The handiest thing to use is F83, a public domain FORTH by Laxen and Perry. It contains a metacompiler and comes in all the source code so it is probably the most widely ported FORTH ever. I have it for both the PC and for the CP/M computers. As it comes from the BBS's it does not contain support to the HD64180 special enhancements over the Z80 code, but still it is almost a trivial thing to modify. What may be more difficult is the stripping off unnecessary code (the CP/M function calls that are part of the kernel if I can tell). Of course, you can start your work with either a PC or a CP/M machine. The latter one is naturally much easier. I actually realize that I should try this porting myself. So far I have just played around with the compiled BASIC that I got with the BCC180 board and never considered porting FORTH to it. Hmmmm?? . -- PJK Msg#: 9000 *GENERAL* 10/23/88 09:09:07 From: MICHAEL HOBSON To: PELLERVO KASKINEN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 8994 (FORTH FOR BCC180) Thanx for your input on this subject. I think it will turn out to be much less trouble finding a ROMable Z-80 Forth, than trying to convert CP/M F83. I don't really have time to spend to do such a conversion myself, even if the entire source code were available to me. ......................................[^]-[^] .......................................\---/. "The Elf" Msg#: 9006 *GENERAL* 10/23/88 10:28:40 From: MARK LAMPKIN To: PELLERVO KASKINEN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 8994 (FORTH FOR BCC180) Actually,this message should be to all.....Is this "Fig-Forth" and where can I get,(download),a copy of portable Forth...I am interested in starting to use Forth as a home language...From my point of view,it seems to posess the power required for my type of hacking....Mark Msg#: 9182 *GENERAL* 10/26/88 01:54:20 From: JIM NELSON To: MARK LAMPKIN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 9006 (FORTH FOR BCC180) There are lots of PD forths available on the East Coast Forth Board @ 703/ 442-8695. Tell Jerry Shifrin I sent you. There's also a meeting of the Detroit area FIG (Forth Interest Group) this thursday at Oakland University, and they'll be talking about F-PC, an excellent new PD IBM PC forth. Msg#: 9192 *GENERAL* 10/26/88 06:25:24 From: MARK LAMPKIN To: JIM NELSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 9182 (FORTH FOR BCC180) Jim...Thanks for thi info on Fig-Forth....The Detroit meeting sounds good,but I'm in the middle of a home moving party this week...Whens the next meeting ?.......Mark Msg#: 9357 *GENERAL* 10/29/88 07:23:22 From: PELLERVO KASKINEN To: MICHAEL HOBSON Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 9000 (FORTH FOR BCC180) I am not sure you can find a ROMable FORTH for Z80 any better than the CP/M based. To make the ROMable code you need some sort of a development system - right? Well, whatever you wish! . -- PJK Msg#: 9359 *GENERAL* 10/29/88 07:34:30 From: PELLERVO KASKINEN To: MARK LAMPKIN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 9006 (FORTH FOR BCC180) The F83 is not Fig FORTH. Like its name indicates, it implements the FORTH 1983 standard. The other standard was 1979 and this 1983 tries to include ideas from the Forth Interest Group (FIG) as well as other sources. There are quite a number of enhanced versions around, but most of them still preserve the basic concepts. The main difference in principle might be the notion of TRUE/FALSE. Using either +1 or -1 for a TRUE (if I remember) causes some incompatibility between different dialects. Anyway, the F83 by Laxen and Perry is a nice work and widely available because it contains the source code and a metacompile for easy porting over to new processors. You need to know your processor's machine code and assembler mnemonics. You plug those in the the metacompiler and are at least halfway through your porting effort. . -- PJK Msg#: 9673 *GENERAL* 11/05/88 06:50:38 From: MARK LAMPKIN To: PELLERVO KASKINEN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 9359 (FORTH FOR BCC180) Pellervo....Where can I get a copy of this?....Mark Msg#: 9676 *GENERAL* 11/05/88 08:18:17 From: PELLERVO KASKINEN To: MARK LAMPKIN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 9673 (FORTH FOR BCC180) I thought you would have found it on East Coast Forth. If not, I can make a little disk copying and mail it to you - just give me the appropriate mailing address. But also, tell me at the same time the format you desire to get -- is it PC or SB180 format that you are working? You may have said it earlier but let's just make sure! My point is the easiest way of getting there is if you DO work with an SB180 that is also a development platform for the BCC180. I call this board only once per week, so my replies come slow - sorry about that... . -- PJK Msg#: 9717 *GENERAL* 11/06/88 06:53:58 From: MARK LAMPKIN To: PELLERVO KASKINEN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 9676 (FORTH FOR BCC180) Pellervo.....Not to worry about slow relies...I wish I had the self control to call once per week...My phone bills are pretty high,anyhow,My address is 386 Merriweather,Grosse Pte. Farms,Mich. 48236....Ireally would appreciate the software in PC format....Thanks.....Mark Msg#: 9985 *GENERAL* 11/12/88 07:18:00 From: PELLERVO KASKINEN To: MARK LAMPKIN Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 9717 (FORTH FOR BCC180) OK, I'll send it shortly! As to the control - I did call a lot more frequently and many places too. The money I spent was frightening at the level of 50 - 60 bucks per month. I have chosen to call only during the economy rate times, i.e. weekends and early mornings. But the real "improvement" came with my work load that dictated leaving the early morning calls for a while. There are so many people working overtime in the evening that my overtime was more productive in the early morning. Well, that much for the calling patterns. I'm going to work even today and may be able to prepare the disk(s) there. My home computer is an SB180 and even though I have a Uniform for it I still may be better off with the actual MSDOS machines in making the copy. See ya! . -- PJK Msg#: 8598 *GENERAL* 10/14/88 23:28:39 From: BYRON BLAKE To: ALL Subj: GRAPHICS I am trying to manipulate high resolution graphics made on IBM, MACINTOSH or AMIGA computer systems. THese high resolution graphics have multi-color s. The goal is to remove all color coding and display the picture on a monchrome monitor system. In the process I have found the data file extensions .GIF and .PIC to be confusing. Could someone please explain there meaning and the difference between the two. Graphs done on Lotus 123 r.2 are saved with PIC extensions as well, is there any similiarities? Thanks Msg#: 8608 *GENERAL* 10/15/88 07:00:04 From: LUC DE MEYER To: MARK LAMPKIN (Rcvd) Subj: HOME CONTROL COMMS THANKS Mark, Sorry but I have been reading the messages about the home LAN you have with VERY great interest. I have a lingering feeling that I ought to construct something similar but never got around doing so. Your messages were an incentive to pick up the thread again... THANKS for sharing your practical info with us. Luc De Meyer. Msg#: 8615 *GENERAL* 10/15/88 09:50:13 From: MARK LAMPKIN To: LUC DE MEYER (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 8608 (HOME CONTROL COMMS THANKS) Luc....If you have any questions or need some software/hardware ideas drop me a line.......Mark Lampkin 1467 Apple Orchard Walled Lake,Mi.....USA 48088 Msg#: 8620 *GENERAL* 10/15/88 14:21:05 From: TOM ARNOLD To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 1180 (MACHINE READABLE SOFTWARE LISTINGS I) The ferromagnetic paper is a marvelous speculation, but I wonder about mailing magnetic media at magazine rate. If you need to go first class to get it thru there goes the savings. Why not OCR.If the listing is hex you only have 16 characters to read so the software should be a lot simpler than for text. Since your people control the typesetting it should be even simpler to get consistant readings. The only trick part would be the optics; to eliminate scanning and timing problems you would need a little multi-lens; this could be cast in plastic, and would be the only expensive/proprietory part. Msg#: 8624 *GENERAL* 10/15/88 17:36:17 From: RICHARD OESTERLE To: ALL Subj: WIREWRAP FOR EXPANSION CARDS? I'm new to designing and protyping expansion cards for the IBM line of computers, and need advice as to the best wiring technique to use for a one or two quantity of the same circuit design. . I just received a PR-2 prototype board from JDR Microdevices and thought wirewrap would be the way to go, but the wirewrap pins are too long for the .8" board width limit on the PS 2 model 25 & 30 computers. Is the wire pencil (such as Vector) technique suitable for my prototype board design which consists of TTLLS & CMOS ICs? . I seem to remember reading that "rats nest" wiring should be avoided with TTL, and I don't know if wire pencil is considered "rats nest". Thanks in advance for any suggestions, Rich Msg#: 8634 *GENERAL* 10/16/88 03:09:38 From: ERIC BOHLMAN To: RICHARD OESTERLE (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 8624 (WIREWRAP FOR EXPANSION CARDS?) I had bad experiences with wiring pencils, though that was nearly 10 years ago. Why don't you get the type of WW sockets whose posts can be cut down after wrapping (the posts have little indentations so they'll snap cleanly)? Msg#: 8755 *GENERAL* 10/18/88 00:28:38 From: RICHARD OESTERLE To: ERIC BOHLMAN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 8634 (WIREWRAP FOR EXPANSION CARDS?) Thanks for the suggestion. I did'nt know those WW sockets existed, I'll look into it. Can you suggest a brand or source of supply? Thanks, Rich Msg#: 8799 *GENERAL* 10/18/88 17:16:08 From: RICHARD ANDREWS To: RICHARD OESTERLE (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 8624 (WIREWRAP FOR EXPANSION CARDS) . You might want to try Augat. They are located in Mass. (Attleboro, I beleive). That area is now in the 508 area code. . Regarding the rats nest.... my experience has been that a rats nest is preferable to having nice neat long parallel runs of wiring; this really increases the chance of crosstalk between signals. Msg#: 8835 *GENERAL* 10/19/88 07:59:22 From: RICHARD OESTERLE To: RICHARD ANDREWS (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 8799 (WIREWRAP FOR EXPANSION CARDS) Rich, Thanks for the info, looking further through the JDR catalogue I see that they sell Augat IC sockets, I'll order a few. From the picture in the catalogue they do look like they have a lower profile. Thanks, Rich Msg#: 8628 *GENERAL* 10/15/88 20:41:24 From: GARRETT FITZPATRICK To: ANY ONE, PLEASE Subj: IBM KEYBOARD If anyone know the pin call-outs on the IBM keyboard connector, please drop me a line. Thanks, Garrett Msg#: 8717 *GENERAL* 10/17/88 12:28:55 From: JEFF BACHIOCHI To: GARRETT FITZPATRICK (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 8628 (IBM KEYBOARD) . Garrett, . Pin # Function . 1 Clock . 2 Data . 3 Reset . 4 Ground . 5 +5 volts . jeff Msg#: 9002 *GENERAL* 10/23/88 09:27:21 From: GARRETT FITZPATRICK To: JEFF BACHIOCHI (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 8717 (IBM KEYBOARD) Jeff, Thank's I needed that. Garrett Msg#: 8635 *GENERAL* 10/16/88 07:18:42 From: JIM LOOS To: DAN KARMANN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 6731 (TASM ASM TABLES) Dan, I've had the same problem with TASM and the TMS7000 micro (bit test and jump instructions). If you do find a solution, please be sure to post it. By the way, are you playing with the CTS256 from Radio Shack? Msg#: 8884 *GENERAL* 10/20/88 10:32:26 From: DAN KARMANN To: JIM LOOS (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 8635 (TASM ASM TABLES) Jim, Thanks for the reply. I'm actually playing with reprogramming a GI-7040 in a Jerrold Starcom VI cable converter box. So far, I've not found a solution for TASM for this processor. Msg#: 8956 *GENERAL* 10/22/88 05:58:24 From: JIM LOOS To: DAN KARMANN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 8884 (TASM ASM TABLES) Just curious. As far as the 4 byte opcodes go, I've resorted to hand coding them with the ".byte" direcctive wherever they occur. It's kinda messy as you can imagine. Have you come up with any other method? Msg#: 9319 *GENERAL* 10/28/88 11:49:59 From: JEFF HENSHAW To: DAN KARMANN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 6731 (TASM ASM TABLES) Did you ever figure out how to get TASM to accept 4 byte instructions? I'm going to be embarking on a project soon that uses a Motorola single chip processor, probably the MC68HC11 series. They have extended the instruction set to 4 bytes to stuff in extra opcodes. Then again, if TASM won't do it, do you know of a PC based cross assembler for these products? I've tried calling Motorola's FREEWARE BBS (512/440-3773) but all I get is garble at 300 or 1200 baud regardless of # of bits & parity settings. Jeff Msg#: 9325 *GENERAL* 10/28/88 13:28:30 From: DAN KARMANN To: JEFF HENSHAW (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 9319 (TASM ASM TABLES) Jeff, I've been fairly busy doing other things lately, so I've not had much time to play with TASM. I had looked into using the .byte feature (I used to use that with an 8080 assembler to generate Z-80 code), but it is painful since I am modifying some of the code out of a disassembler and then reassembling it. Anyway, I'll get back to it one of these days. As for the assembler for the 6811, I've had good luck with the free assemblers from the Motorola BBS at 512-440-3733 not 3773 as you mentioned. One minor problem is that if you re-direct the listing ouput to a file, all of the errors and warnings also only go to that file, so you then have to search the listing file to see if everything assembled OK. You get the 'C' source to the assembler, so one of these days I need to fix that minor problem. Msg#: 9367 *GENERAL* 10/29/88 15:13:15 From: JEFF HENSHAW To: DAN KARMANN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 9325 (TASM ASM TABLES) Thanks for the info, Dan. So the number is 3733, huh? I'll try that. I have a Moto brocure that lists the number as the one I gave, and there IS a modem there. Pretty funny if Moto documented the wrong phone #!!! Glad to hear that they do have assemblers there, I wasn't sure if they would. Thanks again!. Msg#: 8677 *GENERAL* 10/16/88 22:20:13 From: EDWARD SCHRAM To: RON WILSON (Rcvd) Subj: 68000 SBC We have a small modest 68000 system taht we are currently porting XINU to. If you were at purdue you probably are familiar with it. The Z80 implementation I did sparked interest and we decided that a 16 bit version would work well. The *modest* system includes: . 2 Megabytes of memory . 512 Kbytes of EPROM . 2 Serial ports . IBM Keyboard (XT) interface . 16 Kbytes of E2PROM (replaceable with 64 Kbytes of static ram. . There is no price on the system yet due to the XINU port not being complete. If you want one with full schemetics let me know. The artwork for the board is just completed and should have pcbs in 3 weeks. The system will have a SCSI port as soon as we can finish the daughter board. Whole system fits on top of a 5 1/4 SCSI drive. Msg#: 8724 *GENERAL* 10/17/88 16:05:40 From: RON WILSON To: EDWARD SCHRAM (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 8677 (68000 SBC) I was at Purdue from 81 to 85 and IU from 79 to 84 (partially while a high school student). At IU we had a Z80 system running XINU for experimental purposes. . As for what I'm looking for now: Well, I have a 68010 based UNIX system (AT&T 3B1) that I can use to compile and/or assemble the code I will write. So, I would like a system that I can load (and ultimately boot) a program and test (ie: debug) said program. I would prefere to be able to use existing device drivers for console and disk IO. Of course, I would also need a way to create the loadable version of the program from either the compiler/assembler or the linker output of the 3B1's development tools (I may be able to get part of this from a friend at U of Wiss. in Madison). Otherwise, I would need both a C compiler and a 680x0 assembler. Thanks in advance for info you can tell me. - Ron Msg#: 8761 *GENERAL* 10/18/88 06:54:04 From: BOB PADDOCK To: EDWARD SCHRAM (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 8677 (68000 SBC) When you have your XINU port done will it be available with out the SBC? I've got the source code for the PDP-11 version, but I would like to get XINU up and running on the 68070. In the front of the XINU book it says some one already ported it to the 68000, any idea who it was or how to find them? Msg#: 8679 *GENERAL* 10/16/88 22:46:57 From: EDWARD SCHRAM To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: COMMERCIAL SCANNER Steve, . We are currently working on a commercial application of a circuit similiar to the ImageWise. It is for IBM computer systems to allow for the customer to scan in photographs and maintain a database of these for retreival and printing on a laser printer. We have achieved EGA quality scans (600 x 300) with space left for an AutoCad type menu. The problem right now is the software and hooking a camera to a flatbed for scanning. Was there software written to convert the grey-scale images to R-G-B? If so is it possible to see the alogrithm? The biggest problem is we do not want to loose the resolution obtained by this type of scanning. Normal raster scanning (Palinter etc) just does not compare. As these are photographs we need the TV type scan. Do you know of a digitial camera or small camera that will work for this? I re-read the article you did on the digitial camera and it doesn't have the needed resolution. Msg#: 8709 *GENERAL* 10/17/88 10:25:56 From: STEVE CIARCIA To: EDWARD SCHRAM (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 8679 (COMMERCIAL SCANNER) I remember seeing an RGB camera at a recent CES show. I believe the camera was made by JVC or Toshiba. It was expensive! Better start there. --Steve Msg#: 8749 *GENERAL* 10/17/88 22:24:45 From: EDWARD SCHRAM To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 8709 (COMMERCIAL SCANNER) Thanks, I'll check it out. The RGB would probably be best as it would make encoding into a bit plane a little easier (simply round up or down). Msg#: 8823 *GENERAL* 10/18/88 23:16:02 From: JIM NELSON To: EDWARD SCHRAM (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 8679 (COMMERCIAL SCANNER) Grey scale to RGB is done through table look up. Since your grey scale is 8 bit, you need only 256 entries in your look up table. If you allow 8 bits per red, green, and blue component, the table will consist of 256 24 bit entries. Hi resolution monochrome cameras are made by COHU, NEC, TI, EEV, AMPEREX, Computar, Sanyo, etc. COHU even makes a solid state RGB camera (the 1800 series at $1600 ) with 754 H x 488 V (what a coincidence!) picture elements. RGB res. is about 188 lines H per channel. NTSC encoded res is 300 lines H. Since you were able to come up with a circuit "similar to the ImageWise", it is strange that you're unfamiliar with this. Msg#: 9031 *GENERAL* 10/24/88 01:41:06 From: EDWARD SCHRAM To: JIM NELSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 8823 (COMMERCIAL SCANNER) I am not unfamiliar with it. The breadboard is just being finished. What I was wondering is if there was another way. All the programs I had seen required intervention from the operator. After all if the voltage (values) vary from approx .4 volts to 1 volt for coloring info you have those values to play with. Even for an 8 bit A/D convertor you do not get 256 colors. You loose the H & V sync and blanking levels and also if you refer to RS-170 standards the colorbust signal will creep into the "information" of the colors. RS-170 seems to specify 455 dots accrossed the screen and 525 lines down in two fields. I am taking 512 pixels x 266 lines in one frame of information. Triggered by the host CPU to start at the end of the colorbust signal (timing from vert blank start to max time color info starts) untill the 128k buffer is full. The software is then responsible for stripping out any horiz. info and compressing the image. If displayed on a computer screen the images will be converted to rgb information and bitmapped into the screen as in Picture-in-a-Picture. If displayed on the viewer board they are mapped into a picture buffer of 128kx8 and sent to a D/A and shifted out with all syncs and colorburst regenerated from the origional picture. (NO sync ifo stripped) Actually works rather well. Msg#: 8680 *GENERAL* 10/16/88 22:56:19 From: EDWARD SCHRAM To: ALL Subj: PC BOARD DESIGN With the average circuit built by "hackers" increasing in complexity to rival those of commercial applications, wet-inking the boards or doing the layout by hand is not feasible. However the average market cost of having a pcb done to check-plots (no film) is $2.50 to $3.00 per connected pin. To help hobbiests who want it we will do your board (including film) for $1.00 per pin. Please at this price no commercial applications can be accepted. Input can be in the form of hand drawn schematic or OrCad. Physical board cost will depend on the number of circuits received. All boards will be panelized and made at once. Thereby reducing the cost. A 16x18 double sided board is $350 so your cost will be based on what percentage of the board your project takes. . If you are interested please leave me a message. Msg#: 8948 *GENERAL* 10/21/88 23:08:49 From: TIM MCDONOUGH To: EDWARD SCHRAM (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 8680 (PC BOARD DESIGN) I'm not so interested in layout as I am in producing small runs of boards. Any suggestions on reasonably priced service from existing film? Tim McDonough Msg#: 9034 *GENERAL* 10/24/88 01:48:29 From: EDWARD SCHRAM To: TIM MCDONOUGH (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 8948 (PC BOARD DESIGN) Tim, It depends on the size of the board and wether you have the drill tape and negatives. We can get guarenteed 2 week turnaround for prototype quantities. If you are in a hurry one week is also available. What size is the board, number of layers, slikscreened and soldermasked> These play a part in the cost. If you do multiple runs of the same board you may want to try one medium run. If you want a quote mail the size and number of layers. Msg#: 9228 *GENERAL* 10/26/88 19:48:44 From: FOSTER SCHUCKER To: EDWARD SCHRAM (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 8680 (PC BOARD DESIGN) I'm interested in your service. How do I get in touch with you? Leave a note here or call me (days) 215-648-3498. Thanks! Msg#: 8681 *GENERAL* 10/16/88 22:58:34 From: EDWARD SCHRAM To: KEN DAVIDSON (Rcvd) Subj: IMAGEWISE ON BBS Ken, . What I meant was the capability to display the images from the bbs the same as one reads messages. I know a little far fetched and may have to wait for ISDN to be standard everywhere. However compressed for b&w display in the corner of a screen may work. Msg#: 8696 *GENERAL* 10/17/88 08:33:43 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: EDWARD SCHRAM (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 8681 (IMAGEWISE ON BBS) Yea, I'd say that is just a *little* far fetched for now. Given the number of people who both own an ImageWise and log onto this BBS, the work involved in such a project would far exceed any benefits. Msg#: 8682 *GENERAL* 10/16/88 23:08:33 From: EDWARD SCHRAM To: KEN HOWELL (Rcvd) Subj: DTMF(TM) TRANSCEIVER Ken, . To make a DTMF xceiver try the MITEL MT8880/MT8880-1 chip. It has what you need to hook a 68xx/68xxx or 64180 processor to a phone line and send and receive dtmf tones. However you will still need a line interface. . . The reason there is so much "stuff" added to a telephone interface is that MA BELL or your local company now, does not want you shorting out their system or burning up your project. They do some nasty stuff on those lines and you have to prepare for it. . If this is a one-of-a kind project I recommend a DAA. Otherwise I will send you the complete schematic for the board as well as a price. Why not I'll send the schematic up tomorrow. Gotta go time running out. Msg#: 8685 *GENERAL* 10/17/88 00:18:18 From: LARRY CARLEY To: ALL Subj: FOR SALE OR TRADE... . No Slot Clock w/Software for the PC Compatibles (NEW) $29 . . Beckman Digital Shirt-Pocket Multimeter with Audible. $29 . Continuity & Diode Chkr, (Never used, was a Gift) . . High Speed Tone Telephone Dialer System...............$29 . Radio Shack Model DuoFone 93T, 93 number storage, . Repeated redial of Busy and Unanswered Numbers, can be . used by all phones in your Home or Business. . . Jerrold Cable Security System (Burglar Alarm)........ $19 . Includes Remote Control Console & the computerized . Alarm Processing Unit, and 28 Page Manual. Has RF input . & output for use with a CATV System. Inputs: (2) 3.3 Kohm . loops & (5) TTL Logic. Has External Battery input, and . 2 Relay outputs. Was removed from a Multiple Family . Housing Facility. Have 2 of these, will sell both for $29 . . Motorola 6800 Evaluation Kit & Manuals (Assembled)... $19 . Has 6 Digit LED Display, 24 Key Hex Keyboard, ROM . based Operating System, and Interface for Cassette . Storage of Programs... Parts alone are worth $19. . . I also have lots of Eproms, Motorola 6800 Series CPU's . and support chips, Relays, Ribbon Cable & Card Edge . Connectors, and other Misc. Electronic Goodies. . For a complete List of the Items in my Electronics . Rummage Sale - Send a Self-Addressed Stamped Envelope to: . . Electronic Rummage Sale / PO Box 90815 / Burton, MI 48509 . . All items are available on a first come - first serve . basis. Since I have posted these items on numerous Boards, . Your best bet would be to write to the above address, and I . will then get back to you. For a Quick Reply, include the . phone# (with Area Code) of the BBS you found this add on! . Also included on that List are numerous Hobby Prijects . that I have Built, many are Devices for the Telephone. . Some of these ideas and devices won't be found elsewhere. . I would also be interested in trading any of the above . items for an equal value in C90 or C120 Cassette Tapes. Msg#: 9300 *GENERAL* 10/28/88 06:23:57 From: GARY LEAR To: LARRY CARLEY Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 8685 (FOR SALE OR TRADE...) Larry, Do you still have the 68000 development board? I am interested in purchasing it if you do. Please send a reply on this BBS (Circuit Cellar Ink). Thanks. . --Gary Msg#: 8686 *GENERAL* 10/17/88 00:19:22 From: LARRY CARLEY To: ALL Subj: FOR SALE OR TRADE... . Triplett 3525-B Digi-Probe Digital Multimeter........ $49 . with Touch-Hold, and Audio Continuity Checker. . (Never used - also was a Gift) . . Electronic Video Head Cleaner Cartridge (for VHS).... $19 . Automatically Dispenses Fluid, Beeps when Done * NEW * . . Cable Conv. Box w/ Audio & Video Outs, Rem. Control.. $29 . . Super Nice Elapsed Time Meter (Hour Meter)........... $19 . LCD Display with internal 10 Year Battery ** NEW ** . Dispalys up to 999999.99 Hours, Can use it to display . the Hours logged on your computer or the Disk Drives . . Super Nice Event Counter, counts to 99999999......... $19 . LCD Display with internal 8 Year Battery ** NEW ** . Use it to Count phone calls or how often something runs.. . . Telephone Answering Machine, Radio Shack Model TAD30. $19 . Dual Cassettes & Remote Operation - will include two . extra Outgoing Message tapes, Tapes alone are worth $10. . . I also have lots of Eproms, Motorola 6800 Series CPU's . and support chips, Relays, Ribbon Cable & Card Edge . Connectors, and other Misc. Electronic Goodies. . For a complete List of the Items in my Electronics . Rummage Sale - Send a Self-Addressed Stamped Envelope to: . . Electronic Rummage Sale / PO Box 90815 / Burton, MI 48509 . . All items are available on a first come - first serve . basis. Since I have posted these items on numerous Boards, . Your best bet would be to write to the above address, and I . will then get back to you. For a Quick Reply, include the . phone# (with Area Code) of the BBS you found this add on! . Also included on that List are numerous Hobby Prijects . that I have Built, many are Devices for the Telephone. . Some of these ideas and devices won't be found elsewhere. . I would also be interested in trading any of the above . items for an equal value in C90 or C120 Cassette Tapes. Msg#: 8719 *GENERAL* 10/17/88 13:56:48 From: MARC D'ALOISIO To: ALL Subj: SALE/TRADE I have the following for sale or trade (prefer trade). Will consider _almost_anything_ in trade for the following: One genuine bell teletype. Old floorstanding model complete with acoustical phone handset hookup. Works great. Even comes with a ribbon and paper. One ADM (I think) serial terminal. Works great. All switches documented. Was used originally on an old OSM system (which is apart but all parts work.. has 4 z80 processor boards, HDD controller, etc.) One IBM (genuine) IBM43FD 8" floppy disk drive. Worked when in machine, should still work. I, as I said will consider almost anything in trade and as a last resort will consider cash. Msg#: 8726 *GENERAL* 10/17/88 17:01:49 From: MATTHEW LEVINE To: IMAGE PROCESSING EXPERTS Subj: IMAGE DATA HANDLING I AM INVESTIGATING THE POSSIBILITY OF DEVELOPING A COMPUTERIZED COMPOSITE ENHANCED VIDEO DISPLAY SYSTEM REQUIRING THE DIGITIZING , SIZE SCALING AND POSITIONAL ORIENTATION ,SELECTIVE ENHANCEMENT AND OUTPUT FORMATTING AND WOULD LIKE TO KNOW IF ANYONE CAN PROVIDE SOME INPUT AND/OR OPINIONS ON THE FOLLOWING QUESTIONS : 1) CAN A STANDARD 286 SYSTEM SUPPORT TWO DIGITIZERS AND A SMALL DATA AQUISITION INTERFACE WITH THE CONVENTIONAL KEYBOARD AND MONITOR IN PLACE (USING AN OUTBOARD MONITOR FOR THEGENERATED DISPLAY ) ? 2) CAN ONE DIGITIZED IMAGE BE REDUCED / ENLARGED IN SCALE AND CAN IT BE POSITIONALLY REORIENTED TO THE OTHER DIGITIZED IMAGE BY SOFTWARE ROUTINES ? 3) CAN CORRESPONDING POINTS BE PICKED OUT AND COLOR ENHANCED SO AS TO IDENTIFY THEIR MEANING AND CAN THESE POINTS BE REDUCED TO STORABLE COORDINATES ? . . TELL ME IT'S NOT TOO MUCH TO ASK ( HUH-HUH ) ! . . THANKS FOR THE HELP AND GUIDANCE . . ->->-> MATT <-<-<- Msg#: 9166 *GENERAL* 10/25/88 19:54:32 From: STEVE MAHER To: MATTHEW LEVINE (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 8726 (IMAGE DATA HANDLING) I HAVE DONE A GREAT DEAL OF IMAGE PROCESSING IN MY WORK. THIS INCLUDES CONSIDERABLE WORK IN ENLARGING AND REDUCING IMAGES. MOST OF THESE TECHNIQUES INVOLVE NON-INTEGER RESAMPLING OR WEIGHTED AREA AVERAGING. IF YOU WOULD LIKE TO DISCUSS THE ALGORITHMS FOR THIS LEAVE ME A MESSAGE AND I WILL TRY TO ANSWER YOUR QUESTIONS AND MAYBE PROVIDE A DEMO PROGRAM. ----- Steve Msg#: 9224 *GENERAL* 10/26/88 17:03:17 From: MATTHEW LEVINE To: STEVE MAHER (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 9166 (IMAGE DATA HANDLING) STEVE - I APPRECIATE THE REPLY AND ASSISTANCE AND WOULD LIKE TO DISCUSS THIS FURTHER WITH YOU ON THE BBS. . . THANKS . . . ->->-> MATT <-<-<- Msg#: 9280 *GENERAL* 10/27/88 23:05:41 From: STEVE MAHER To: MATTHEW LEVINE (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 9224 (IMAGE DATA HANDLING) How about some more information about what specifically you are interested in doing? Msg#: 9813 *GENERAL* 11/08/88 18:52:16 From: MATTHEW LEVINE To: STEVE MAHER (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 9280 (IMAGE DATA HANDLING) STEVE , SORRY FOR THE DELAY BUT I HAVE BEEN HAVING SOME PROBLEMS WITH MY TIRED EQUIPMENT ( I SUPPOSE EVEN THE MOST DIEHARD TI-99 USERS FACE UPGRADE TIME WHEN THE OLD MACHINE " DIES HARD " OUT TO LUNCH ) BUT THAT ASIDE , LETS GET ON WITH A SYNOPSIS OF THE CONCEPT AT HAND . . . THE SYSTEM PROPOSED IS A SINGLE STATION MARINE NAVIGATIONAL DATA DISPLAY . . 1) THERE ARE ON THE MARKET , COMPUTERIZED CHART/POSITION DISPLAYS THAT SHOW A MOVING CURSOR ( BOAT ) ON A NAV CHART THAT SHOWS ALL CHARTED HAZARDS . IN THIS INSTANCE THE ENTIRE CHART IS STATIONARY AND THA CURSOR MOVES WITHIN IT . . 2) MARINE RADAR HAS A VIDEO DISPLAY THAT SHOWS ACTUAL HAZARDS CHARTED AND OTHERWISE . THIS DISPLAY MOVES AND ROTATES ABOUT A CENTERED CURSOR ( BOAT ) . . . 3) MY PROPOSED SYSTEM WOULD COMBINE TESE TWO UNITS AS WELL AS OTHER ELECTRONIC NAV AIDS INTO A SINGLE DISPLAY SCREEN PLACED IN FRONT OF THE HELM . . . 4) PROBLEM . . . CAN BOTH THE RADAR AND CHART DISPLAYS BE COMBINED ( AFTER SCALING AND ORIENTING ) COMPARED AND DISPLAYED FLAGGING CHARTED HAZARDS IN GREEN , UNCHARTED HAZARDS IN AMBER , AND HAZARDS WITHIN A PRESET LIMIT RADUS IN FLASHING RED WITH AUDIBLE ALARM ? . Msg#: 8728 *GENERAL* 10/17/88 17:51:28 From: ANDREAS DESSOFF To: ALL Subj: BURROUGHS MOUSE AND MOTOROLA 68XXX It seems that I might be able to get several Burroughs mice that were originally used with a Burroughs serial CRT terminal. I opened one up today and saw that inside mechanical commutators to sense the motion, one 7400 on a board and a Motorola 68070 (or 68007?) chip which has the EPROM-typical window on top. I would like to find out if this mouse can be adapted for use on an IBM-type PC. I suspect that it is a serial mouse. The cable terminates in a plug that looks like a phone plug, only it has 8 connectors instead of 4. I would appreciate any information or source for info about this piece of equipment. Could the Morola chip be a combined Micro-CPU with EPROM and UART in one package? Does by chance anyone have a pin-out for the connector? Again, any info will be appreciated! Msg#: 8746 *GENERAL* 10/17/88 20:57:17 From: KEN HOWELL To: MARK LAMPKIN (Rcvd) Subj: 1802 SOURCES Mark -- Do you have a source for 1802 and support chip parts? I used to see them advertised right along with z80 and 8XXX chips, but haven't seen *any* advertised for a while. Suggestions? --Ken. Msg#: 8760 *GENERAL* 10/18/88 06:47:09 From: BOB PADDOCK To: KEN HOWELL (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 8746 (1802 SOURCES) RCA discontinued a lot of the 18xx family parts about two years ago, so what you saw on the surplus market has probably dried up by now. You'll be able to get the 1802 long after the 8088 is gone, because of the Militarys commitment to it. Msg#: 8797 *GENERAL* 10/18/88 17:08:34 From: JEFF JENSEN To: KEN HOWELL (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 8746 (1802 SOURCES) Ken, Jameco is clearing out the plastic 1802 now. They do not list any support chips. - - Jeff Msg#: 8810 *GENERAL* 10/18/88 21:55:37 From: MARK LAMPKIN To: KEN HOWELL (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 8746 (1802 SOURCES) Ken.....The 1802 is presently advertised as a close-out at Jameco in Calefornia....somewhere around $2.95....I just bought another 15 pieces.....good price...It's the CDP1802CE....4-6 volt operation..3Mhz clock...Their telephone #415-592-8097..Belmont,Ca....Mark Msg#: 8813 *GENERAL* 10/18/88 22:16:09 From: KEN HOWELL To: MARK LAMPKIN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 8810 (1802 SOURCES) Thanks for the info. By the way, what CMOS support chips do you use with it? --Ken. Msg#: 8842 *GENERAL* 10/19/88 11:54:47 From: MARK LAMPKIN To: KEN HOWELL (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 8813 (1802 SOURCES) Ken.....I have,in the past,used the CDp1852cotal latch,CDP1861 video driver and the CDP1854 UART.Presently,ther is no reason to use any of the support chips with the 1802 because of the 74C,ACT and HCT lines of chips.There is too much available in CMOS to really consider the attempted usage of the other 18XX chips,not to mention the cost of the family products with the respect to functional eqiv.'s in other lines....However,t he 1861 video chip is fantastic for simple video interfaces......Mark Msg#: 8861 *GENERAL* 10/19/88 21:22:40 From: KEN HOWELL To: MARK LAMPKIN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 8842 (1802 SOURCES) As I suspected. I'm not too interested in the video interface, as most of the CMOS projects that I would be using would have an LCD display. Kind of tough to put video out in the garden! --Ken. Msg#: 9833 *GENERAL* 11/09/88 01:58:52 From: WAYNE J. CLEWELL To: KEN HOWELL (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 8746 (1802 SOURCES) FROM WAYNE J. CLEWELL KEN, I HAVE BEEN USING THE RCA 1802 SINCE THE FIRST ARTICLE APPEARED IN POPULAR ELECTRONICS BACK IN 1975. MOST OF THE PARTS THAT ARE NO LONGER AVAILABLE HAVE DIRECT REPLACEMENTS FROM OTHER COMPANIES. THE RCA 1852 I/O CHIP CAN BE DIRECTLY REPLACED WITH INTEL'S 8212, IN FACT I EVEN LIKE IT BETTER THAN THE 1852 BECAUSE OF THE SPEEDS THAT IT WILL ALLOW. IF YOU DROP ME A LINE CONCERNING ANY SPECIFIC NEEDS, I'D BE MORE THAN GLAD TO HELP YOU OUT, BOTH IN HARDWARE AND SOFTWARE. -- WAYNE -- Msg#: 9890 *GENERAL* 11/10/88 00:29:06 From: KEN HOWELL To: WAYNE J. CLEWELL (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 9833 (1802 SOURCES) Thanks, Wayne. If you'll leave your address (msg or email) I'll pick it up and drop you a line when I pull these suckers out of the chip holder! --Ken. Msg#: 9927 *GENERAL* 11/11/88 01:19:00 From: WAYNE J. CLEWELL To: KEN HOWELL Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 9890 (1802 SOURCES) WAYNE J. CLEWELL MAIN ST. BOX 407 MARTINS CREEK, PA. 18063 KEN - FEEL FREE TO DROP ME A LINE AT ANY TIME, UNFORTUNATELY MY OWN BBS SYSTEM IS NOT OPERATIONAL AT THIS TIME OR I'D GIVE YOU THAT INFO, BUT WHEN AGAIN OPERATIONAL I'LL DROP YOU A LINE -- WAYNE -- Msg#: 8751 *GENERAL* 10/17/88 22:50:44 From: EDWARD SCHRAM To: ALL Subj: PHONE LINE INTERFACE . I have uploaded the DAA file in orcad to the bbs. Unfortunately to the wrong file area so as soon as the sysop moves it you can down load it. As I said previously it is not FCC approved at this time. It is meant as an example for study only. If desired I will write a message here or in INK describing it. It was origionally designed to be part of a PBX for small offices and homes. If you want to make your own DAA you can read the following available at most libraries: . TITLE 47 CFR SECTION 68 or obtain a copy ($11 in feb 87) from the gov't printing office: . Super. of documents . Gov't Printing office . Washington, D.C. 20402 . order part 40-69 #822-007-00158-5 . . If there is a lot of interest in this project the cost per board should be around $30 each. The more the interest the cheaper the price. Everybody shares the testing price. Msg#: 8757 *GENERAL* 10/18/88 00:39:15 From: SIMON SABATO To: ALL Subj: LCD PINOUTS NEEDED I recently aquired an LCD display (2 X 40). I have no pinouts, but would appreciate any information. It is marked H2515A serial number 0147, and is dated in the 12th week of 1979. The connector is a 10 pin molex connector. I have figured out the power connectors, and when power is aplied, a kind of stripe goes down the middle horizontally. Any information please? One of the most distinguishing features of the unit is a bunch of 52 PIN Surface Mount IC's. They are marked D880G and there are 14 on the unit. I powered it at 8 volts as the only logic chips on there were CMOS. -Simon Sabato Msg#: 8758 *GENERAL* 10/18/88 00:46:04 From: SIMON SABATO To: ALL Subj: SURPLUS KEYBOARD I have aquired a surplus keyboard (113 key) which has a molex connector. The data is output in a 20 bit format (Start bit, 8 bit status word, 2 synch bits, 8 bit ASCII data, 0 bit.) at a rate of approximately 10500 baud. The pinout is 1- GND 2- +12v 3- LOGIC GND 4- TXD 5- RXD 6- RESET Is this a standard IBM style keyboard? How can I connect a UART to recieve both words in order? How can I connect a UART to recieve 10500 baud? Is it worth junking the keyboard (cost only $7, and using the key matrix without the chip?) By the way, the chip is socketed and is a NEC 8049HC. -Simon Sabato Msg#: 8780 *GENERAL* 10/18/88 09:53:27 From: DAN CRONIN To: ALL Subj: X-10 SETS OFF MY SMOKE DECTECTORS! I have a SEARS X-10 Timer/Controller with 3 Wall Switches. The units work fine except my AC Smoke Detectors go crazy when I activate my wall switches. Is there some kind of filter I can put on the Smoke Dectors to keep them from turning on? Thanks for any help. Dan Msg#: 8787 *GENERAL* 10/18/88 15:11:13 From: BARRY MOSS To: ALL Subj: BELL 202 MODEM I'm looking for some information on the soft turn off carrier option used on Bell 202 modems. I am designing a new modem and I want to know if a marking tone can be used instead of the soft turn off tone. The Bell Technical specifications I've been able to obtain are very ambigous when it comes to explaining exactly how soft turn off works. Can anyone help out? Msg#: 8788 *GENERAL* 10/18/88 15:14:37 From: BARRY MOSS To: ALL Subj: OVERSEAS BBS'S Does anyone have a list of some overseas bbs's? I want to try out some new modem IC's which implement V.21, V.22 (not V.22 bis), and V.23. Since these protocols are used extensively in Europe and Australia I think my best bet of finding a service using one of these modem types would be to try a bbs in one of the aforementioned areas. Also, any North American BBS's running any of the above protocols? Msg#: 8800 *GENERAL* 10/18/88 17:55:09 From: JAMES MEYER To: ALL Subj: HELP WITH LASERS I am looking for some help with locating a source of solid state IR emitting diodes. They can be LEDs or cw lasers. The only fly in the ointment is the peak wavelength of the IR output. I need something at 970 to 980 nanometers. I am building a spectrophotometer based medical instrument for the lab here at Duke Medical Center in Durham, and I have located all of the required wavelength sources except for the one above. There seems to be a gap in the readily available sources between 900 and 1160 nanometers. I am not sure if the gap is due to lack of suitable alloys of semiconductors or lack of demand for those wavelengths. If anyone here can help or recommend someone who can please reply to this message. As an aside to those hackers who are interested in gee-whiz stuff. Sony Corp. makes a really neat laser diode intended for use in CD players. The part # is SLD 202U. Marshall Industries ( a nation-wide distributor ) stocks and sells them at less than $20 in ones and twos. They put out 3 milliwatts with 100 milliamps drive from a 2 to 3 volt source. The output wavelength is 780 nanometers and although this is technically infared, the eye is sensitive enough to this wavelength to allow you to see it. When I collimated the beam ( which normally spreads out in a 30 degree cone ) by putting a 10X microscope objective just in front of the diode, I could project a spot across the room. When properly focused the spot was too small to show any visable diameter. The light output is directly related to the drive current above the threshold of 60 milliamps so amplitude modulation is straight forward. Frequency of modulation could be as high as 100 Mhz although I haven't verified that. A real laser small enough to hold in one hand, powered with flashlight batteries, for $20 ! Shades of Buck Rogers. Before you fire one of these up, please remember that if the focused beam is directed into someones eye there may be a possibility of damage to the retina. It won't cut a hole in a steel plate, or set anything on fire but a little healthy respect is always a good idea. Msg#: 8802 *GENERAL* 10/18/88 18:30:28 From: MARC D'ALOISIO To: JAMES MEYER (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 8800 (HELP WITH LASERS) Try Toshiba America,Inc. ; 1101 A Lake Cook Road ; Deerfiel, Il 60015. (312) 945-1500. or Mas-Tech ; 29 Deer Run Drive ; Randolph, NJ ; 07869. (201) 895-2200. You could also try Edmund Scientific ; 4138 Edscorp Building ; Barrington, NJ ; 08007 (609) 573-6266. I doubt Edmund would have what you're looking for, but they have some neat toys. Toshiba and Mas-Tech seem to have a good selection. Msg#: 8826 *GENERAL* 10/19/88 00:35:31 From: JIM NELSON To: JAMES MEYER (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 8800 (HELP WITH LASERS) Those wavelengths are normally reached only via dye lasers. Exciton [ (513) 252-2989 ] sells several dyes, IR-132 peaking @ 972 nm using a linear flashlamp, and IR-140 peaking @ 964 nm by pumping with a nitrogen laser. Their catalog lists 196 papers showing how their dyes are applied. Msg#: 8830 *GENERAL* 10/19/88 05:16:41 From: DALE NASSAR To: JIM NELSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 8826 (HELP WITH LASERS) Jim, One of the biggest problems I had using the laser diodes was mounting the focusing device. My problem was solved when I came across a flyer from: MEREDITH INSTRUMENTS 6403 N. 59TH AVE GLENDALE, AZ 85301 602 934 9387 They sell laser diodes (still 780 nm) with a mounted and prefocused collimating lens the prices are as follows 1-3 mw---$10 3-5 mw---$20 6-9 mw---$30 10+mw---$50 this includes the collimator which is worth over $100 and can be used for other lasers (just push in the diode) I bought several of the $10 units just for the collimator. --Dale Msg#: 8838 *GENERAL* 10/19/88 10:21:58 From: STEVE CIARCIA To: JAMES MEYER (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 8800 (HELP WITH LASERS) After reading your message I had purchasing call Marshall on that SLD 202U. They were quoted $90 each and $80 in hundreds!!! A far cry from $20. How about a phone number for your source and we'll see if the right arm (of Marshall) knows what the left one is doing. My next call is to check out that reference to Meredith Instruments and see how real that is. --Steve Msg#: 8852 *GENERAL* 10/19/88 17:17:04 From: JAMES MEYER To: JIM NELSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 8826 (HELP WITH LASERS) Thanks Jim. We have used dye lasers during the preliminary resarch, but now we need to get the size and cost down, hence the intrest in solid state sources. Msg#: 8853 *GENERAL* 10/19/88 17:20:29 From: JAMES MEYER To: DALE NASSAR (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 8830 (HELP WITH LASERS) Wow Dale, scooped again! I thought I had the ultimate playtoy but you found one better (cheaper) than mine. We need to trade info more often. . Thanks, Jim Msg#: 8854 *GENERAL* 10/19/88 17:28:45 From: JAMES MEYER To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 8838 (HELP WITH LASERS) Steve did I say 202 ??? I should have said 101 that's SLD 101U . I used the Marshall office in Raleigh Ph# 919-878-9882 and ordered from Sam Peterkin. Sorry if I led you on a wild goose chase with the wrong part number. The price should be about $16 for the 101. The 202 is $85 or $90 as I have bought some of them also. Are you sure you didn't get the old bait and switch routine from your contact at marshall ? Msg#: 8871 *GENERAL* 10/20/88 00:36:48 From: DALE NASSAR To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 8838 (HELP WITH LASERS) Steve, The lasers I received from Meredith are EXACTLY like the one shown in the photo on page 188 of the SEPT 87 issue of BYTE. I hope they still have some. --Dale Msg#: 8872 *GENERAL* 10/20/88 00:38:55 From: DALE NASSAR To: JAMES MEYER (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 8853 (HELP WITH LASERS) James, see message 8871 --Dale Msg#: 8881 *GENERAL* 10/20/88 08:59:37 From: STEVE CIARCIA To: DALE NASSAR (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 8871 (HELP WITH LASERS) Ordered one yesterday. Apparently they still have them. In your estimation, should I bother with the SLD101U if I have the meredith unit? --Steve Msg#: 8882 *GENERAL* 10/20/88 09:01:45 From: STEVE CIARCIA To: JAMES MEYER (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 8854 (HELP WITH LASERS) Remember, we strive for accuracy around here :-) Thanks for the correction. Purchasing considers the local Marshall people as low-lifes so I may have to go to another state anyway. --Steve Msg#: 8886 *GENERAL* 10/20/88 13:22:29 From: DALE NASSAR To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 8881 (HELP WITH LASERS) I would get the meredith units for the mounting, lens and wired plug. I dont know the case style of the SLD101 but if it is < $20 what have you got to loose ? The diodes that came with the meredith units are Sharp diodes. I dont have the lit in front of me, but the Meredith units labeled (3-5mw and 6-9mw) contained the same diode-- the LT022MC I think sharp labels this 5mw. I have'nt tried the units yet. They are not shipped in static-proof bags--so its a gamble with the diode. The best thing to do is probably just install a new diode in the unit. --Dale Msg#: 8906 *GENERAL* 10/20/88 23:51:30 From: SIMON SABATO To: DALE NASSAR (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 8830 (HELP WITH LASERS) Someone I know was looking for a device, and asked me to build it. It is a lser spotter, a hand held device that would project a spot across the room used for business meetings. This 10+mw laser diode sounds good. Two concerns. What kind of power supply is needed? The same kind of 2-3 volt source? Secondly, how bright is the spot, over, say, 5 yards? Lastly, is it very dangerous to the eyes? (i.e. CLASS IIIA DANGER sticker required) or just possibly dangerous over long exposure (i.e. CLASS IIA WARNING) -Simon Sabato Msg#: 8918 *GENERAL* 10/21/88 10:05:38 From: STEVE CIARCIA To: DALE NASSAR (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 8886 (HELP WITH LASERS) Got the Meredith unit yesterday (one day delivery) and fired it up this morning. Worked great at 85 mA. I'm going to order a couple more today. Interestingly, I put on a pair of HeNe protective glasses when I first fired it up (Glendale Optical in NY, about $110 a pair). First of all, I was surprised to see a projected spot at all given that this is supposed to be an IR laser diode but I could see it BETTER through the protective glasses (they are blue)! What's the wavelength of this Sharp diode? The HeNe glasses stop anything longer than 700 nm. I should not have been able to see 820 nm which is what the Sony diodes are. If it is 600 nm it will go through these like plane glass and I'll have to buy another pair of glasses (cost doesn't bother me. It's just that Glendale Optical deliveries are very slow). --Steve Msg#: 8920 *GENERAL* 10/21/88 10:20:24 From: STEVE CIARCIA To: SIMON SABATO (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 8906 (HELP WITH LASERS) Why reinvent the wheel. You can buy laser pointers (real bright at 5 yards) from Edmond Scientific. While you can use a laser diode, not much of their energy is visible. --Steve Msg#: 8924 *GENERAL* 10/21/88 10:43:35 From: STEVE CIARCIA To: DALE NASSAR (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 8886 (HELP WITH LASERS) OK, I just happen to have the sharp laser diode data sheets (all kinds of junk around here) and it says that the LT022MC is 780 nm. Since 800 nm is infrared, I suppose some people could see it but if I read my HeNe specs right I should see anything longer than 700 nm. Wait I must be reading this graph backwards. Maybe it passes everything above 700. It seems to have a peak non pass at 600 nm. Is that the HeNe? BTW, what are you doing with the Meredith units. I'm making a perimeter scanner. --Steve Msg#: 8927 *GENERAL* 10/21/88 12:49:03 From: DALE NASSAR To: SIMON SABATO (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 8906 (HELP WITH LASERS) These laser diodes operate at a wavelength of 780 nm which is right on the border of infrared--even at 10mw (a rather high output) a collimated spot is not bright enough to make a useful pointer. Also I would be concerned about eye safety with a collimated beam at this power level. Also common now are 750nm dioded lasers which should be more visable (I haven't tried these yet, but plan to--I'll let you know). If these shorter (<=750 nm turn out to be good pointers a suitable power source will be 4 AA batteries. The best laser pointers are Helium-Neon units with an output of 1 mw or less (633 nm wavelength). These lasers are visable for greater than 100 feet. I have one from Edmund Scientific that is battery powered and measures about 7 1/4 x 2 1/4 x 3/4 and runs for 30 - 45 minutes per charge. I have also seen others similar to this advertised elswhere. The price is high however (usually > $300). --Dale Msg#: 8941 *GENERAL* 10/21/88 20:37:23 From: ALEXANDER SCHNEIDER To: DALE NASSAR (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 8927 (HELP WITH LASERS) How much would you suppose the 750nm 10 mw units would cost? Alex Msg#: 8990 *GENERAL* 10/23/88 01:47:18 From: DALE NASSAR To: ALEXANDER SCHNEIDER (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 8941 (HELP WITH LASERS) I got your question and went to look for some prices I got from Sharp in '85 but couldn't find then but I think the cost is about the same as for the 780nm units (not sure) I'll be looking into it soon. --Dale Msg#: 9011 *GENERAL* 10/23/88 11:56:55 From: ALEXANDER SCHNEIDER To: DALE NASSAR (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 8990 (HELP WITH LASERS) So you're figuring about $20 for 5 mw, plus a holder, and what power source? Alex Msg#: 9117 *GENERAL* 10/25/88 03:26:38 From: GREG BELL To: SIMON SABATO (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 8906 (HELP WITH LASERS) Where do you get laser diodes? I've always been interested in experimenting with them, but have never been able to find a supplier... GBell Msg#: 9293 *GENERAL* 10/28/88 01:42:06 From: SIMON SABATO To: GREG BELL (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 9117 (HELP WITH LASERS) Dale Nassar is the one to ask. -Simon Sabato Msg#: 8829 *GENERAL* 10/19/88 04:59:38 From: DALE NASSAR To: ALL Subj: BASIC HELP I have written some graphics programs in QUICKBASIC 4.0 that plot mathematical equations. I plan to use the program as a stand-alone EXE file. Does anyone know how to INPUT a equation without editing the code. For example in the following fragment: INPUT ..... FOR X = 0 TO 2*PI Y=SIN(X) PSET (X,Y) NEXT X I know of no way to change the function ,sin(x), without editing the program line. Is there any way I can input such information in the first line? I need to be able to input such things as +,-,/,*,^,tan,cos,..... along with the variables x,y,z..... thanks for any help. --Dale Msg#: 8840 *GENERAL* 10/19/88 11:02:02 From: MICHAEL HOBSON To: DALE NASSAR (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 8829 (BASIC HELP) Well, seems to me that the task you are asking QB to do is INTERPRET the function to be used. You are going to have to write a formula parser that can take a string formula, separate out the different elements, and then execute appopriate QB functions to do the grunt work. VERY non-trivial thing to ask. Yer better off, if there are a known number of functions to be used, to set up a function menu, and code them all ahead of time. The run-time performance would be much better, also. .........................................[^]-[^] ..........................................\---/ "The Elf" Msg#: 8870 *GENERAL* 10/20/88 00:24:41 From: DALE NASSAR To: MICHAEL HOBSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 8840 (BASIC HELP) Thanks, I'm going to try it. --Dale Msg#: 8843 *GENERAL* 10/19/88 13:07:37 From: RON MURIAS To: ALL Subj: HEX CONVERSION I've recently entered the '51 world, I purchased Intel's evaluation board, and I am now struggling with their RISM software. I have a PseudoSam cross assembler, and my problem is with the file format of the assembler. It is in Intel Hex, but the RISM monitor won't upload it. Is there any way to convert the Intel hex programs to something I can use with this monitor? I want to be able to debug using RAM instead of burning every new attempt. Thanks for any help. Msg#: 8844 *GENERAL* 10/19/88 13:28:12 From: ALEX BERTAGNI To: ALL USERS Subj: SEMPTE TRACK Ineed to get a card for a PC that can read the SEMPTE track laid on an 8 track machine or laid on a video track. If somebody can help me I will app. it. Name: Alex Bertagni Addr: 12753 Moore st. City: Cerritos St: CA Voice line: 213-926-0201 Fax:213-926-5265 Thanks Alex BErtagni Msg#: 8846 *GENERAL* 10/19/88 16:38:40 From: ALAN JOHNSON To: GENERAL Subj: TINY BASIC Does anyone know if TINY BASIC is still available? It was originally offered by Itty Bitty Computers and was copyrighted by Tom Pittman. Several processors were supported and the code fit in 2K. Please send mail if you know how I can obtain TB preferably for the 8085. -- Alan Johnson Msg#: 8878 *GENERAL* 10/20/88 07:47:50 From: BOB PADDOCK To: ALAN JOHNSON Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 8846 (TINY BASIC) You can download TNYBAS31.LBR from my system at (814) 437-5647 300/1200/240 0 8/N/1 It has the source code with it. Msg#: 8855 *GENERAL* 10/19/88 17:34:10 From: RICHARD ANDREWS To: KEN DAVIDSON (Rcvd) Subj: THREADS . Is there a way to stop reading a thread of messages and go on to the next message? Sometimes I get part way into what turns out to be a long thread that doesn't interest me and I would like to get out. If I type 'S' to stop will also dump me out reading messages altogether? Msg#: 8862 *GENERAL* 10/19/88 21:31:50 From: PAUL MONACO To: RICHARD ANDREWS (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 8855 (THREADS) 'S' will abort the read, just type 'N' and the ext message will begin. Msg#: 8899 *GENERAL* 10/20/88 23:00:21 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: RICHARD ANDREWS (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 8855 (THREADS) You are correct that typing S will dump you out of message read mode. You can type N while reading a message and you will skip on to the next message. So to skip a thread is just a matter of pressing N a bunch of times. You don't necessarily have to read every message. Msg#: 8859 *GENERAL* 10/19/88 18:10:46 From: ALEXANDER SCHNEIDER To: ALL Subj: DSP PROJECTS Have there been any Circuit Cellar-type projects that use DSP's for high-speed waveform calculations and other things? Alex Msg#: 8863 *GENERAL* 10/19/88 22:14:31 From: ANDREAS DESSOFF To: ALL Subj: MOTOROLA MC68705 CHIP Can anyone tell me what kind of chip the above is? I suspect that it might be a CPU with on-board Eprom and possibly even a serial board. As I don't have any Motorola data books, I would appreciate any help! . . . . . . . . . .Andy. Msg#: 8868 *GENERAL* 10/19/88 23:45:04 From: MICHAEL HOBSON To: ANDREAS DESSOFF (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 8863 (MOTOROLA MC68705 CHIP) It is a Motorola CPU with RAM, EPROM, I/O lines and 3 wire Serial interface. There may be some pre-programmed ROM on there depending on the exact model number. Let me see my data book here. DARN!!! Can't find the motorola data book, anywhere. Someone else on here was buying these things.... do a message base search. .......................................[^]-[^] ........................................\---/. "The Elf" Msg#: 8895 *GENERAL* 10/20/88 22:34:16 From: ANDREAS DESSOFF To: MICHAEL HOBSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 8868 (MOTOROLA MC68705 CHIP) Thank you very much for the info which confirms what I had suspected. I have the exact model number somewhere but cannot now find it. As there is no other ROM or RAM to be seen anywhere around the chip, I am almost certain that there has to be on-chip ROM. Thanks again! . . . . . . . . Andy. Msg#: 8953 *GENERAL* 10/22/88 01:41:14 From: KEN LOGSDON To: ANDREAS DESSOFF (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 8863 (MOTOROLA MC68705 CHIP) The Motorola 68705 is the programmable version of the 6805 microcomputer. It includes an on-chip EPROM, clock generator, counter/timer, RAM, I/O ports, and self-programming firmware. The exact amount of I/O lines and program ROM / data RAM space depends on the version of 68705; the 28-pin MC68705P3, for example, has 112 bytes of RAM, 1.8K of ROM, and 20 bi-directional I/O lines. Oh, it also has an external interrupt input and you can use the internal timer to generate periodic interrupts as well. I like the device myself; it comes in handy for a wide variety of dedicated control applications and is very easy to use. The programming circuit is pretty simple when using its on-chip programming firmware - you just program a 2716 EPROM with your code, plug it into the programmer, and the 68705 reads it in from the 2716. Contact your regional Motorola rep for additional info, I'm sure they would be more than happy to send it to you. You might want to try to finagle some samples and their cross-assembler for it as well if you're going to do any development using this device. Msg#: 8954 *GENERAL* 10/22/88 01:43:32 From: KEN LOGSDON To: MICHAEL HOBSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 8868 (MOTOROLA MC68705 CHIP) You must have been thinking of National's COPS series of microcontroller when you mentioned a 3 wire serial interface - the 68705 doesn't have that feature. Msg#: 8959 *GENERAL* 10/22/88 08:38:29 From: MICHAEL HOBSON To: KEN LOGSDON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 8954 (MOTOROLA MC68705 CHIP) According to the Motorola Master selection guide I have here, there are four flavors of 68705: P3 = 28 pins, 112 bytes RAM, 1804 bytes EPROM, 20 Bidirectional I/O lines., no special features. S3 = 28 pins, 96 bytes RAM, 3400 bytes EPROM, 14 Bidirectional I/O lines, 7 Unidirectional I/O lines, Serial Peripheral Interface. R3 = 40 pins, 112 bytes RAM, 3776 bytes EPROM, 24 Bidirectional I/O lines, 8 Unidirectional I/O lines, A-D convertor. U3 = Same as R3; but no special features. Says here that they all have on-board clock circuitry, and program as an MC6800. The trouble is, The Master Selection guide doesn't give any pin-outs for any of the little monsters! ........................................[^]-[^] .........................................\---/ "The Elf" Msg#: 9233 *GENERAL* 10/27/88 00:02:48 From: ANDREAS DESSOFF To: KEN LOGSDON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 8953 (MOTOROLA MC68705 CHIP) Thanks for all the good info! Do you or anyone else have a national number for Motorola, as I have not yet found a local distributor in Connecticut? Thanks again . . . . . . . . Andy. Msg#: 9254 *GENERAL* 10/27/88 08:25:08 From: MARK LAMPKIN To: KEN LOGSDON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 8954 (MOTOROLA MC68705 CHIP) The 6801 family of processors has a two-wire interface using the SC0 and SC1 pins....They also have a minor network interface ability if you use the addressable uart sleep mode of the built-in uart....The networking of the 6805/68705 family would have to be accomplished in software,emulating a uart with a couple of the I/O pins dedicated to the job...I have example software for that function on the 68705P3,68705R3 and the 1468705G2........ .....Mark Msg#: 9255 *GENERAL* 10/27/88 08:29:36 From: MARK LAMPKIN To: MICHAEL HOBSON Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 8959 (MOTOROLA MC68705 CHIP) Michael.....If you need the pinout of the processors,let me know which one(s) and I'll get it(them) to you.....I have been using and favoring those processors for almost 5 years....They are the finest single chips on the market.....I have 13 of them in various operations around my house,some of them are networked into my home control/security system...... ....Mark Msg#: 9468 *GENERAL* 10/31/88 15:06:28 From: NEIL CHERRY To: ANDREAS DESSOFF (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 9233 (MOTOROLA MC68705 CHIP) try 1-800-521-6274, that might help. NJC Msg#: 9476 *GENERAL* 11/01/88 00:47:25 From: KEN LOGSDON To: MARK LAMPKIN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 9255 (MOTOROLA MC68705 CHIP) As I mentioned, I like them myself; they are very easy to use, and Motorola gives away the cross assemblers for them (at least they used to) and if you were involved in any kind of R&D, they would even provide a PC board that you could stuff to make a programming module for them! Can't understand why you don't see more articles in the various hobbyist mags about them, by comparison, the Intel 804x and 805x are cumbersome (although more powerful in certain respects) to use. Msg#: 9653 *GENERAL* 11/04/88 23:35:11 From: ANDREAS DESSOFF To: NEIL CHERRY (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 9468 (MOTOROLA MC68705 CHIP) Sounds like just what I need - thanks - Andy. Msg#: 9674 *GENERAL* 11/05/88 06:54:52 From: MARK LAMPKIN To: KEN LOGSDON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 9476 (MOTOROLA MC68705 CHIP) Ken...From a comercial point of view,Motorola has never really seen the power of the "Hacker" as am important source of revenues,both directly or indirectly.....This may be in the process of chage,though,as Mot. is running a BBS that has tons of software available for the downloading.I would like to see some project using the 6805 chips myself....Mark Msg#: 8865 *GENERAL* 10/19/88 22:27:20 From: MARK LAMPKIN To: MICHAEL HOBSON (Rcvd) Subj: POTTING MATERIAL FOR SUBMERSION Michael......I have read some of the messages on your project and one of the last that I read caught my eye.....Potting a piece of hardware...To really talk of the correct material,the experts are in the proximity switch industry,(for automotive and industrial uses).Their are some distinct and difficult problems encountered with potting a cable in housing,no matter what the nature of the usage....The fact that the two materials,the cable and the housing are going to be made of dissimilar materials automatically points to the problem of thermal coefficients of expansion of the two materials...In other words,the two materials epand at different rates....There are certain epoxies which are designed as potting materials which are ideal for these situations,most of them include an alumina silicate filler as a temperature compensations....Some people to alk to are Turck-Multiprox,Namco Controls,Cutler-Hammer,etc.If you need more info or some names of people to talk to,drop me a line.....Mark ...P.S....I'm ex-Namco and ISSC.... Msg#: 8867 *GENERAL* 10/19/88 23:38:57 From: MICHAEL HOBSON To: MARK LAMPKIN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 8865 (POTTING MATERIAL FOR SUBMERSION) Hmmm..... Well, I have to thank you for taking an interest, but I think there was a point you might have missed. The objects to be potted are sonic transducers. Silicone rubber is the material of choice, because it conducts sound well in the band of interest. Rubber would tend to stretch with the cable, but I don't think I would get a "wetting" bond to the wire insulation material, and therefore I would have the "wicking" problem that was mentioned by someone else, here. I may end up just buying water-tight transducers from someone who has solved this problem already. ........................................[^]-[^] .........................................\---/. "The Elf" Msg#: 8915 *GENERAL* 10/21/88 08:18:56 From: MARK LAMPKIN To: MICHAEL HOBSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 8867 (POTTING MATERIAL FOR SUBMERSION) The transducer in question,could possible be a piezo-electric device?I have used the advetised piezo "tweeters" in submerged envinonments as microphones and also as speakers....Experiments with "sonar"...Mark Msg#: 8922 *GENERAL* 10/21/88 10:39:07 From: MICHAEL HOBSON To: MARK LAMPKIN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 8915 (POTTING MATERIAL FOR SUBMERSION) YES! I was thinking about using pzieo-tweeters for the tone outputs but I hadn't figured out how to make one water-tight (I didn't think you could pot one of those, and still have it work). Please tell me what you did! ........................[^]-[^] .........................\---/. "The Elf" Msg#: 8957 *GENERAL* 10/22/88 07:56:54 From: MARK LAMPKIN To: MICHAEL HOBSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 8922 (POTTING MATERIAL FOR SUBMERSION) There are a number of ways to use them in an aquatic environment...First, if the use is in fresh water,generally speakink,nothing has to be done to the xducer,the standard piezo tweeter can work at a low enough potential voltage that the unit will not short out for a substanial amount of submerssion time....It sounds,though,like you are going to be in a marine environment.......Simple ways to proyect the device,with some efficiency loss of course,would be to use a material that is somewhat transparrent to the frequencies of interest....An extremely thin skin of a relatively inert metal placed across the feed horn mouth and seald with an epoxy will stiil transmit the tone(s),although somewhat attenuated...When using reduced frequencies,the skin would have to be changed to a more flexible substance,(possibly a thin plastic....The electricat connections could be sealed in an enclosure which would also contain a ballast weight....Just a few ideas....Mark... Msg#: 8960 *GENERAL* 10/22/88 08:50:49 From: MICHAEL HOBSON To: MARK LAMPKIN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 8957 (POTTING MATERIAL FOR SUBMERSION) Thanx for the quick reply, Mark. I was originally considering the use of a silicone membrane formed over a dome-shaped, stiff wire mesh (to retain shape and provide better dispersion). Impedance matching between Air (inside) and Water (outside) isn't gonna be too good, but I can always use a couple of 10 Watt hybrid amps for drivers; and I figure that even with impedance losses, the output will still be too loud for dolphins (have to use the attenuation on the programmable sound chips). I DID find a good source for 6 Volt gell-cell batteries in Computer Shopper of all places. 2 cells wired for 12 Volts + Wall plug charger for $30.00 from American Design Components. O.D. are 5 1/2" x 5 1/2" x 4 1/2" for the set. Hope they still have them around, it's a couple months back and the company wasn't in the last issue. ......................................[^]-[^] .......................................\---/ "The Elf" Msg#: 8980 *GENERAL* 10/22/88 20:05:47 From: MARK LAMPKIN To: MICHAEL HOBSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 8960 (POTTING MATERIAL FOR SUBMERSION) Michael...I was experimentinga few years back,with a new type of sub-woofer....It was based on the capacitive concept of the piezo tweeter...The speaker cone,instead of being a cardboard or some type of polymere,would be two layers of conductive rubber,like used in the operating room of a hospital,separated with a non-conductive rubber......Th e resonance of such a unit would be very low,and the capacitance of the unit could be adjusted by the thickness of the insulating layer...Talk abought waterproof......All you would need would be to adjust the size and stiffness of the rubbers to achieve the frequency range in question. You could then pott the entire speaker(?) in silicon rubber to electrically isolate it......Mark Msg#: 8983 *GENERAL* 10/22/88 22:08:01 From: MICHAEL HOBSON To: MARK LAMPKIN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 8980 (POTTING MATERIAL FOR SUBMERSION) Hmmmm.... well, the ideas sounds super, but the materials seem a bit too exotic for my needs. Any ideas where to get this stuff from?? And did you ever make one work? I must say this, we sure are getting creative on this project! I am very happy I signed up for this board! .........................................[^]-[^] ..........................................\---/ "The Elf" Msg#: 8995 *GENERAL* 10/23/88 07:38:21 From: PELLERVO KASKINEN To: MICHAEL HOBSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 8867 (POTTING MATERIAL FOR SUBMERS) I once read about resistor coatings - a study by one of the foremost manufacturers of specialty (high accuracy) resistors. They concluded that silicone coatings offered plenty of desireable features, except one - moisture protection. There are two reasons for this. One is that silicone compounds have a higher permeability for water (and oxygen - it is used for "breathing" membranes). The other one is that it does not readily adhere to the leads of the resistors, thereby forming a seepage way at each end. The solution suggested was an initial coating of extremely thin epoxy and then on top of it a silicone coating. I also remember from my work in a cable manufacturing facility that the telephone cables that had been excellent might suddenly deteriorate during or after some heavy rain, if made of thermoplastics. The reason was that a tiniest hole let water in and then it traveled for miles inside the cable jacket. That multiplied the interwire capacitance and caused a havoc. This never had happened with the old paper insulations and came as a bitter surprise. (In paper cables, there also was deterioration, but it was kept localized as the paper swelled after getting wet and sealed further seepage). In any case, you find in newer plastic cables different barriers every so often. These barriers generally are either good old vaseline or some gel, or possibly a hygroscopic powder that has a swelling capability when wetted. . -- PJK Msg#: 9001 *GENERAL* 10/23/88 09:13:33 From: MICHAEL HOBSON To: PELLERVO KASKINEN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 8995 (POTTING MATERIAL FOR SUBMERS) Well, this is getting pretty wild. I am only designing something of which maybe 3 units will be built. AFTER I can teach my language to a dolphin or two, there may be some serious demand for more of my units; but I really am trying to avoid a major engineering project. I can live with replacing transducers every so often, for the first few of these devices. .......................................[^]-[^] ........................................\---. "The Elf" Msg#: 9358 *GENERAL* 10/29/88 07:25:56 From: PELLERVO KASKINEN To: MICHAEL HOBSON Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 9001 (POTTING MATERIAL FOR SUBMERS) I understand. My contribution was really meant as much for general edification than for your particular need. After all, there are all kinds of people and projects that might benefit from a side note here and there. . -- PJK Msg#: 8876 *GENERAL* 10/20/88 04:34:16 From: MICHAEL LOUIE To: ALL Subj: PRINTERS AND PLOTTERS FOR SALE I HAVE A LIMITED NUMBER OF USED PRINTERS AND PLOTTERS FOR SALE IN EXCELLANT CONDITION FOR SALE. ALL UNITS WERE SENT FOR REPAIR TO THEIR ORIGINAL MAKERS JUST PRIOR TO SALE, AND HAVE NOT BEEN USED SINCE. IF YOU ARE INTERESTED PLEASE CONTACT MICHAEL LOUIE AT MICROCOMPUTERS SOLUTIONS, 714-820-9850 FOR DETAILS. ZENITH/ANADEX LP-5100A/9500A HIGH SPEED, WIDE CARRIAGE, HEAVY DUTY, OFFICE TYPE, 9 PIN PRINTHEAD DOT MATRIX PRINTER, ORIGINAL PRICE WAS $3000, NOW ASKING $300. ZENITH/MPI 350 PRINTMATE, WIDE CARRIAGE DOT MATRIX PRINTER, INTELLIGENT FRONT PANEL FOR PROGRAMMING, FRICTION & TRACTOR FEED, PARALLEL PORT. WAS $999, NOW ASKING $25. XEROX 4020 INK JET PRINTER, TAKES FOUR COLOR INKS THROUGH 20 NOZZLES TO CREATE MANY DIFFERENT COLORS. SUPPORTED IN LOTUS & DR HALO, PRINTS AT 80 CPS DRAFT, & 40 CPS NEAR LETTER QUALITY. ORIGINAL RETAIL PRICE WAS $1200, NOW ASKING $150. WESTERN GRAPHTEC X-Y PLOTTER. B-SIZE, 25CM PER SEC DRAWING SPEED, HAS THREE COMMAND LANGUAGE SETS, TWO BY WESTERN GRAPHTEC, AND HP-GL. CURRENT LIST PRICE IS $2300, AM ASKING $150. ALSO HAVE 30 BRAND-NEW ZENITH ZVM-1240 12" AMBER TTL MONOCHROME MONITORS AVAILABLE AT $75 EACH. QUNTITY DISCOUNTS ARE AVAILABLE WHILE SUPPLIES LAST. ALL NOW TO BE SURE YOU GET WHAT YOU WANT. 714-820-9850 Msg#: 8889 *GENERAL* 10/20/88 14:42:50 From: JAMES MEYER To: RON MURIAS (Rcvd) Subj: HEX CONVERSION Mark, . You can edit Intel Hex files with a text or word processor because they are purely ascii as they are intended to be easily transmitted from one system to another. You need to determine what your RISM monitor needs to see in order to change/modify memory from the keyboard and duplicate those keystrokes in a text file which you can send to the system. The Intel Hex file needs to be edited and merged with the file to change memory so that it looks to the RISM monitor that you are sitting at the keyboard and typing the data from your own two fingers. Most communication programs whould make this easy. Probably the same one you use to talk to CCBBS will work fine. . Now for the Intel Hex format: . It is arranged as lines of text beginning with a colon ( : ) and ending with a carrige return. . The first eight hex (remember Intel -Hex-) digits specify line length, load address, and record type. . The last two digits are a checksum for that line. . The remaining digits in the line are data. There should be an even number of them and if you divide them into pairs they should represent the data that goes into memory. Usually sixteen pairs per line except for the last line which may be shorter but still contain an even number of digits between the first eight and last two. . The last line is an end of file line and when you eliminate the first eight and last two you shouldn't have any data digits left. . I have used this technique succesfuly with the Micromint Z-8 system, Procomm, and the cross assembler supplied by Micromint. . Let me know how it turns out or if you need more info. Msg#: 8890 *GENERAL* 10/20/88 17:30:36 From: CAREY CHARLSON To: ANY 8051 PROGRAMER Subj: PROGRAMING HELP! I am in need for a communication program to interface a 80c31 processor with a modem chip. I am building a telemetry unit and need programmers to help write the interrupt driven software. If you are intrested or know os someone who is, PLEASE call me at (513) 421-2798. My name is cary charlson. Msg#: 8898 *GENERAL* 10/20/88 22:58:14 From: GREG BELL To: ALL Subj: 8031 ASSEMBLER Does anybody out there have/know of an assembler for Intel's MCS-51 family? Like for the 8031? I'd rather not write my own... GBell Msg#: 8905 *GENERAL* 10/20/88 23:48:41 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: GREG BELL (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 8898 (8031 ASSEMBLER) There is one in the listings area here. The format conventions can be a little funny, but it works. Go to the Project files area and the Circuit Cellar subarea. It is listed with the DDT-51 files and is called something like PS51A14.ARC. This is a cross-assembler for the IBM PC, by the way. I don't know of any assemblers that run on the 8031. Msg#: 8921 *GENERAL* 10/21/88 10:28:57 From: STEVE CIARCIA To: GREG BELL (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 8898 (8031 ASSEMBLER) Ken is almost right. There is an assembler that runs on an 8052 however. It is part of the Utilities ROM A&B for the the 80C52 chip sold by Micromint. It can be used with any 8052 (since it contains BASIC utilities as well, I suppose it might require that the 8052 chip be an 8052-BASIC chip in actuality) and cost $100. --Steve Msg#: 8949 *GENERAL* 10/21/88 23:15:17 From: TIM MCDONOUGH To: GREG BELL (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 8905 (8031 ASSEMBLER) This may not be specifically what you want but I have used a Micromint BCC52 with the A&B Utility ROM to assemble code and burn EPROMS which are then transferred to other systems. It's a workable solution if you happen to have a BCC52 for development. Msg#: 8962 *GENERAL* 10/22/88 10:09:01 From: ED NISLEY To: GREG BELL (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 8898 (8031 ASSEMBLER) Or, if you're up for spending real money, the Avocet AVMAC51 assembler runs on a PC and does a spectacular job of working just fine. Their AVSIM51 simulator will be invaluable in tracking down those impossible-to-find bugs... Msg#: 9119 *GENERAL* 10/25/88 03:32:23 From: GREG BELL To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 8921 (8031 ASSEMBLER) Maybe my message was unclear- I'm looking for a program that runs on the IBM and assembles 8031 code... perhaps the DDT program from your recent microcontroller project would do it? GBell Msg#: 9136 *GENERAL* 10/25/88 09:36:33 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: GREG BELL (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 9119 (8031 ASSEMBLER) And that is exactly how Ed and I responded to your question. The PseudoSam assembler described in the DDT-51 article is available here and runs on the IBM PC. It has kind of a funny syntax, though. The Avocet assembler Ed referred to is an excellent commercial assembler. Both PseudoSam and Avocet are also referenced at the end of the DDT-51 articles. Msg#: 8907 *GENERAL* 10/20/88 23:59:58 From: KEITH TUCHOLSKI To: ALL Subj: PCPURSUIT CAN ANYBODY INFORM ME OF THE PROCEDURE TO ACCESS THI BBS FROM PC PURSUIT. HAVING RECENTLY SUBSCRIBED, I AM NOT SURE OF THE PECULIARITIES OF THEIR SYSTEM. ALSO, THE INFO. PACKET IS USELESS (TELLS LOGON &CONNECT...) ANY HELP WOULD BE APPRECIATED.KEITH T Msg#: 9035 *GENERAL* 10/24/88 01:48:46 From: SIMON SABATO To: KEITH TUCHOLSKI (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 8907 (PCPURSUIT) Here is a good way to access this BBS. Logon on to Telenet, then type: C D/CTHAR/12,, then when it gives you the connect message: ATZ -E the Racal Vadic modem will respond :Hello:I'm Ready you push return a few times to get the asterix prompt then type : D and it will ask you for a number, so you type: 8711988 and it will do the rest. -Simon Sabato Msg#: 9114 *GENERAL* 10/25/88 00:26:47 From: KEITH TUCHOLSKI To: SIMON SABATO (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 9035 (PCPURSUIT) THANX SIMON. AM USING SAID METHOD NOW. HOWEVER THE DATA TRANSFER IS SOOO SLOW. DO ANY OF THE'SET' PARAMETERS HELP? THE RESPONSE TO COMMANDS IS APPX. 1 SEC. (AT 1200 BAUD, IT IS WORSE THAN GOING BACK TO 300) THANX AGAIN KEITH T Msg#: 9134 *GENERAL* 10/25/88 09:25:26 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: KEITH TUCHOLSKI (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 9114 (PCPURSUIT) The echo delays are an artifact of any packet-switching network, so there really isn't any way around them. If you must see every character echoed back before you can type the next one, then I can see where you'd have problems. If you get used to typing five or six letters beyond what is being echoed, then it isn't too bad. And once you get more used to using this system and know what keys to press before the menu has finished being displayed, you can move around much faster. The trade-off for getting the service at $25 per month is a slow echo. Msg#: 9173 *GENERAL* 10/25/88 22:39:03 From: JACK PERGAL To: KEITH TUCHOLSKI (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 9114 (PCPURSUIT) You should use Ymodem to ul/dl files from this BBS, it's the best of the error correcting protocols offered on this board. You can use the ascii protocol to dl straight text files. . Jack Msg#: 9177 *GENERAL* 10/26/88 00:03:51 From: KEITH TUCHOLSKI To: KEN DAVIDSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 9134 (PCPURSUIT) KEN - IT IS NOT THE 'ECHO' DELAY, BUT THE FACT THAT I HAVE LOST THE ABILITY TO ANSWER THE QUESTION BEFOR IT IS ASKKED. I HAVE TO WAIT FOR THE MACHINE TO STOP SENDING BEFOR I CAN REPLY. THANX FOR THE INPUT.KEITH Msg#: 9292 *GENERAL* 10/28/88 01:38:12 From: SIMON SABATO To: KEITH TUCHOLSKI (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 9114 (PCPURSUIT) Oh, Ok. I didn't know how advanced of a user you were. Due to the way telenet transmits data packets nationwide, certain transfers will be slowed. Xmodem is one of them, as it sends data in 128 byte packets. Anything that uses larger packets will not be slowed. Try Ymodem. Some terminals have "supercharged" Xmodem which doesn't check for errors. This may seem bad, but Telenet has such good quality lines, and your indial is a local call. Due to this I have NEVER bombed a supercharged Xmodem. But, as a courtesy to SYSOP, use normal transfer when uploading. By the way, in my commodore 128 days, there was a C= protocol called Punter which refused to work with Pc-Pursuit due to the delay times while handshaking. I have heard that Ymodem (which transmits 1K packets) will work fine. -Simon Sabato Msg#: 8909 *GENERAL* 10/21/88 01:40:29 From: KEN HOWELL To: MARK LAMPKIN (Rcvd) Subj: 1802 ASSEMBLER Mark -- do you know of a good PD assembler for the 1802? --Ken. Msg#: 8913 *GENERAL* 10/21/88 07:53:35 From: BOB PADDOCK To: KEN HOWELL (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 8909 (1802 ASSEMBLER) You can pick up all of the PsudoSam assemblers, including the one for the 1802 from the OXGATE7 BBX 804 898 7493. I think at the end of the DT-51 artical there was a number for PsudoSam's BBS. Msg#: 8952 *GENERAL* 10/22/88 01:36:54 From: KEN HOWELL To: BOB PADDOCK (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 8913 (1802 ASSEMBLER) thanks -- I'll look in to it. I seem to recall that the psudoSam assemblers were written in turbo pascal, and the source was not released. If I could get ahold of one in C, I could port it to my machine, an Amiga. --Ken. Msg#: 8923 *GENERAL* 10/21/88 10:43:24 From: JIM GREEN To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: SUPERCOMPUTER STEVE, I'M INTERESTED IN YOU CELLAR PROJECT FOR OCT. WHAT ARE THE DIFFERENCES IN THE 8051 AND 8080/8085? WHAT IF I WANTED TO USE 680X0'S? SO MANY QUESTIONS... WILL INK BE COVERING IN MORE DETAIL THIS PROJECT. . THANX, . Jim Msg#: 8965 *GENERAL* 10/22/88 13:04:38 From: STEVE CIARCIA To: JIM GREEN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 8923 (SUPERCOMPUTER) Sorry, Jim, but asking that question is like asking what's the difference between a BMW 735 and a Chevy Blazer: related, yet very different. Much too much for me to explain here and sounds like you need to do a little homework too. Beyond that, yes, there will be followup stuff in CC INK on the Mandelbrot Engine, perhaps even using it for other stuff. --Steve Msg#: 9156 *GENERAL* 10/25/88 14:36:41 From: JIM GREEN To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 8965 (SUPERCOMPUTER) STEVE, I just got the Nov. Byte and it answered my questions. Thanks for the prompt response. I think by for undertaking this project I'll wait for the final Byte article,maybe I'll get my DG S-100 running while I wait. *See yA, Jim Msg#: 8932 *GENERAL* 10/21/88 16:04:12 From: DAVID OETTLE To: ALL Subj: IBM ENHANCED KEYBOARD I AM WRITING A ARTICLE FOR A COMPANY NEWSLETTER ON THE USE OF HOTKEYS AND CAN'T FIND THE EXTENDED CODES FOR F11 AND F12. I WOULD APPRECIATE THE CODES FOR THESE KEYS SO THAT I MAY COMPLETE THE ARTICLE. THANKS DAVE Msg#: 8938 *GENERAL* 10/21/88 19:21:54 From: MARC D'ALOISIO To: DAVID OETTLE (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 8932 (IBM ENHANCED KEYBOARD) I know that in BASIC, the second byte returned by INKEY$ would be 133 for F11 and 134 for F12, 135 for SHIFT F11 and 136 for SHIFT F12. 137 for CTRL F11 138 for CTRL F12 and finally 139 for ALT F11 and 140 for ALT F12. (the first byte returned is a null). Msg#: 9326 *GENERAL* 10/28/88 13:52:07 From: DAVID OETTLE To: MARC D'ALOISIO (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 8938 (IBM ENHANCED KEYBOARD) THANKS FOR THE INFORMATION MARC. I REALLY APPRECIATE IT. IT WILL BE VERY HELPFUL. DAVE Msg#: 8936 *GENERAL* 10/21/88 17:57:23 From: KENNETH MAXON To: KEN DAVIDSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 6299 (FILE COPMACTION) THANK YOU, I WILL LOOK FOR THE INTELL FORMATT WHERE YOU SUGGESTED. MY COMPUTER EXPECTS THE DATA IS A STRAIGHT BINARY FORMAT, AND I WILL HAVE TO WRITE A CONVERSION ROUTINE AS WELL. I HAND WROTE MY ASSEMBLER AND DISSASEMBLER FOR THE 8031 ALSO Msg#: 8951 *GENERAL* 10/21/88 23:36:15 From: DALE NASSAR To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: HELP WITH LASERS Steve, The laser goggles are usually offer narrow band or broad band sprectrum protection. The wavelength of the visable He-Ne is 632.8nm and the Sharp diode is 780 nm-- some specs from Edmund goggles state "... offers excellent attentuation of the laser rays and maximum transmission of the remaining spectrun." I am really wondering how visable 750 nm would be. Judging from color photograph of the visable spectrum and the relative positions of 633nm and 780nm (780 is actually in the visable region) 750nm should be quite bright. I plan on using the diodes for experimenting with the magnification effects of illunimating a hologram with longer wavelengths than those used to expose it (and vise-versa). --Dale Msg#: 8967 *GENERAL* 10/22/88 13:22:00 From: STEVE CIARCIA To: DALE NASSAR (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 8951 (HELP WITH LASERS) Time waits for no man! -- I picked up a pair of Galium Arsenide laser goggles (Glendale Optical) yesterday. They cost $137.00! But, one has to be very careful with what one cannot see. While the 780 nm diodes are slightly visable, forget trying to see it with the naked eye more than a few feet or in anything but dim light. The glasses are green ( the He-Ne ones are blue) and you can see everything through them as long as you don't mind it being green color. Of course, the diode's IR radiation doesn't pass through. Now, how do you see the bloody thing to align it? Well I remembered that CCDs are IR sensitive. I dug out a CCD camera and low and behold, the IR spot is bright as daylight in the monitor. Just wear the glasses and "see" with the camera. Good thing too. The camera showed that this IR beam reflects all over the place and it is real easy to be looking right into it and not know it! So, what's the morrow? The laser diode is cheap ($20). It just takes $137 worth of protection and a $700 camera to see it :-) OK, at least now I can go on to the next step. --Steve Msg#: 8989 *GENERAL* 10/23/88 01:41:46 From: DALE NASSAR To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 8967 (HELP WITH LASERS) A good thing to know when playing around with a 10 watt infrared CO2 laser! --Dale Msg#: 8955 *GENERAL* 10/22/88 01:45:56 From: KEN HOWELL To: ALL Subj: RS232 AND TWISTED PAIR. A while back, you were all kind enough to steer me in the was of using RS-422 protocol for a project, rather than RS-232. I have another question along the same lines. My firm has a number of DEC vt100 terminals that are used in word processing. We're in the process of moving to a new building, and will soon need to install wiring. We will be using a Novell network, with twisted pair wiring. The network will not be available until about 6 months after the move. In the interim, we would like to use the vt100 terminals. I've taken a look at the existing cables (serial -- 4 wires + shield), and don't think that they're twisted. We would like to use the twisted pair wiring which will be installed for the novell system to run the vt100's for a few months. Some of the runs to terminals will exceed 200 feet. I know that this is beyond the RS-232 specification, but they seem to work now, similarly overextended. Here's the question: Is there some electrical characteristic of twisted pair that would make it operate different than non-twisted pair for this application? being able to use the twisted pair will save about $5,000 in extra wiring and cabling costs. --Ken. Msg#: 8968 *GENERAL* 10/22/88 13:24:43 From: RICHARD OESTERLE To: ALL Subj: DOTPITCH OF IBM PS/2 MONITORS Could someone please tell me what exactly is "dot pitch" when referring to color monitors? . For instance the IBM PS/2 8513 color monitor, has a dot pitch of .28mm. Does this mean that the red, green, and blue phosphor dots are each .28mm in diameter, or is it the distance between the centers of the dots that are .28mm? . I have been comparing the specs. of the 8513 color monitor with the 8503 monochrome, and would like someone's advice as to the appearance of programs such as Quickbasic 4.0 on both. My question is since they both have the same resolution (640x480 pixels for graphics or 720x400 pixels for text) does the mono monitor look sharper since the color monitor uses a triad of red, green, and blue phosphor dots for each pixel? . Please don't think you need the answers to all of the above to respond to this message, any input would be appreciated. Thanks, Richie Msg#: 8972 *GENERAL* 10/22/88 14:53:05 From: KENNETH MAXON To: ALL Subj: DOWNLOADS I HAVE JUST DOWNLOADED THE DIGSIM.SIT PROGRAM FROM THE GENERAL AREA, FOR THE MACINTOSH, AND I CANNOT FOR THE LIFE OF ME FIGURE OUT HOW TO UNPACK IT SO THAT I CAN GET IT TO RUN, ANY HELP WOULD BE APPRECIATED Msg#: 9040 *GENERAL* 10/24/88 02:19:18 From: SIMON SABATO To: KENNETH MAXON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 8972 (DOWNLOADS) I have a nice program which will unpack both stuffit and packit programs. Digsim is one of them, I can't remember, but I did get it from this BBS. I'll see if I can upload it here. -Simon Sabato Msg#: 9061 *GENERAL* 10/24/88 10:28:50 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: KENNETH MAXON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 8972 (DOWNLOADS) The program for unpacking Mac SIT files is in the ImageWise User-Written Programs area. If we had more Mac programs here, I'd set up a Mac area, but an area with just one or two files in it is a waste. Msg#: 8973 *GENERAL* 10/22/88 15:40:59 From: BUDDY PRICE To: ANDY PICKETT (Rcvd) Subj: ELECTRONIC COMPASS Andy, I'd like a copy of the TI application note on the compass. I'd be glad to pay you for postage or send a SASE. Thanks. Buddy Price 2784 Glen Eden Dr. Pensacola, FL 32514 Msg#: 8985 *GENERAL* 10/22/88 22:26:32 From: MICHAEL HOBSON To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: SWITCHED CAPACITOR FILTERS Steve, you seem to know alot of obscure things, so maybe you can help me with this one: For my Dolphin Speech Aid, I decided I need 16 bandpass filters for the tones, and to detect which two bands have the strongest signals by means of envelope followers and an ADC chip. Radio Shack used to sell MF10 Dual Switched Capacitor Filter chips, but not any more. Do you have any idea where I might be able to buy these (or something similar, with specs) from in experimentor quantities? I'm sure other people would find the info useful for their designs, also. ......................................[^]-[^] .......................................\---/. "The Elf" Msg#: 9012 *GENERAL* 10/23/88 12:08:30 From: STEVE CIARCIA To: MICHAEL HOBSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 8985 (SWITCHED CAPACITOR FILTERS) Check out a Jameco or DigiKey catalog. They sell most of the other filters as well as the National data book for them. --Steve Msg#: 9014 *GENERAL* 10/23/88 12:11:49 From: MICHAEL HOBSON To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 9012 (SWITCHED CAPACITOR FILTERS) Thank you Steve, I should have thought of those two first. ............................[^]-[^] .............................\---/. "The Elf" Msg#: 8986 *GENERAL* 10/22/88 22:46:02 From: KEITH PAYEA To: ALL Subj: ROBOTICS HOBBYISTS I am involved with a group called the Seattle Robotics Society. We are group of hobbyists who get together once a month and swap lies about robots we are building. I am interested in finding out if there are other groups like ours out there. Send me some mail if you have a similar group. Keith Payea Msg#: 9103 *GENERAL* 10/24/88 21:48:51 From: GEORGE NICOLACOPULOS To: KEITH PAYEA (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 8986 (ROBOTICS HOBBYISTS) What about some info on the SEATTLE Robitics society for us people on the east coast. Is there any info available (ie newsletters, etc.?). I've got lots of motors and such I would love to have roll around the house. George Msg#: 9174 *GENERAL* 10/25/88 22:43:41 From: KEITH PAYEA To: GEORGE NICOLACOPULOS (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 9103 (ROBOTICS HOBBYISTS) The Seattle Robotics Society is about five years old. Our members consist mainly of students, with a few engineers and artists thrown in to improve the texture. Our current emphasis is on a maze contest like the one run by the IEEE several years ago. We meet once month, and publish a newsletter almost as often. If you'd like to get on the mailing list, just send some mail to me. If you like what you see, send us some money to help with the postage and paper. Our maze contest is based on two foot wide hallways. So far, the most successful robots have been the simplest. I think there is a lesson in there somewhere. None of the robots learn the maze at all, although the final score is based on a total of three runs, so learning would be an advantage. Well, I'll keep trying anyways! Keith Msg#: 8992 *GENERAL* 10/23/88 03:26:51 From: STAN NG To: ALL CCINKS Subj: SCHEMATIC CAPTURE PKG If there is anyone interested in purchasing a SCHEMA Schematic Capture pkg I will let mine go for a great deal. This software is protected by a lockout key, and can be upgraded to unprotected if you desire by purchasing the upgrade. I will help you obtain the transfer of my registration at no cost to you. If you are interested call me, California time after 5:30 weekdays, anytime weekends 213-376-2373. Ask for Robert. Msg#: 8998 *GENERAL* 10/23/88 08:33:18 From: JOSEPH PUGLISI To: ALL Subj: CONTROLERS Does anyone know where I can get information regarding comercial building controlers. I would like to design a controller that would monitor temp, water flow, flood detectors, ect. it should also be able to turn on A/C units, acuators, and sound alarms. I am a EE student at Polytech in NY and dont know enough to take on this project from scratch if any one knows of a good book, or mabey an old Circuit Cellar artical that would help me get started appreciate it very much. Joseph Msg#: 9005 *GENERAL* 10/23/88 10:13:12 From: MARK LAMPKIN To: MICHAEL HOBSON (Rcvd) Subj: CONDUCTIVE RUBBER this material used to be available from medical supply houses.You could get it in two forms,sheets and rolls....That was a few years ago,though.... ...Mark Msg#: 9007 *GENERAL* 10/23/88 10:33:27 From: MICHAEL SKUCZAS To: ALL Subj: PAL PROGRAMMERS Can anyone here give me the basics for constructing a PAL programmer? Dont suggest a commerical please, the machine I work with is as wide spread as the IBM PC and clones. Thanks for your help in advance. signed Michael Skuczas Msg#: 9036 *GENERAL* 10/24/88 01:54:38 From: EDWARD SCHRAM To: MICHAEL SKUCZAS (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 9007 (PAL PROGRAMMERS) Because of the variety of pals around, we used fourteen types from 3 manufacturers in the last project, you are best to go with a commercial programmer. Most operate off of a serial port and will interface to any machine. I have used ours on my CP/M machine and a variety of PC's. Also I believe that MMI (oops AMD/MMI) has stopped releasing their alogrithms for programming to just anybody. Look at Data I/O or logical. Just a suggestion, reinventing this wheel will probably take a long time. Msg#: 9183 *GENERAL* 10/26/88 01:54:55 From: JIM NELSON To: MICHAEL SKUCZAS (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 9007 (PAL PROGRAMMERS) Look in the back issues of Byte - a construction article was featured there a few years ago. You can get kits and cheap programmers for the IBM PC for a couple of hundred bucks. A more important consideration is that most of the good software (CUPL, ABEL, APLUS) that allows you to design and program PALs/ PLAs/EPLDs, and even the free manufacturer's stuff (PLAN, AMAZE, PALASM), runs only on the ibm. What pals are you planning to use? Msg#: 9185 *GENERAL* 10/26/88 02:21:59 From: DALE NASSAR To: MICHAEL SKUCZAS (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 9007 (PAL PROGRAMMERS) Try the Jan. '87 issue of BYTE. --Dale Msg#: 9284 *GENERAL* 10/28/88 00:01:25 From: MICHAEL SKUCZAS To: EDWARD SCHRAM (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 9036 (PAL PROGRAMMERS) Thanks and I am not surprised about AMD/MMI removing thier algorithms. signed Michael Skuczas Msg#: 9285 *GENERAL* 10/28/88 00:08:20 From: MICHAEL SKUCZAS To: JIM NELSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 9183 (PAL PROGRAMMERS) Haven't pinned downed the type yet. As to the machine, I am afraid I am on my own probably. Since I don't own a IBM type computer, I will have explore{this further to see which type of programmer will most amendable to have the user generate his own software to run it. I own a Personal Computer, but it not IBM or anything like it. It's an Atari ST. Thanks for the reply though. I am looking at PALs as way to reduce the chip count in my redesigned version of the GT180, which is going to be set up for STs and have VGA type color palette. We use analog monitors for our color output. signed Michael Skuczas Msg#: 9286 *GENERAL* 10/28/88 00:09:30 From: MICHAEL SKUCZAS To: DALE NASSAR (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 9185 (PAL PROGRAMMERS) I check and see if I have that copy. Thank you for that bit of information. signed Michael Skuczas Msg#: 9298 *GENERAL* 10/28/88 05:31:05 From: JIM NELSON To: MICHAEL SKUCZAS Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 9285 (PAL PROGRAMMERS) Do yourself a favor. Find a friend with an IBM or clone; if you really want to redesign the GT180, design it - don't waste your time reinventing PAL programming wheels. Just because you have an ST doesn't mean you have to accept the xenophobic biases of your ST totin' brethren. We've got macs and even an amiga here, but I still use IBMs with the engineering tools that are available on it. That doesn't detract from my love of slick 68000 system iconic software. Altera has been in the PAL business for a while -- I have one of their development systems. There is a sublime thrill in programming a 64 pin PLCC to replace fourteen or fifteen discrete pieces of MSI & SSI TTL. But they are now moving away from their original approach, which was to simply make larger versions of the sum of products (PAL) architecture already available from MMI, TI, AMD, Cypress, etc.. They are moving in three directions: programmable ASICs, like their micro- channel bus interface chip with user configurable PAL & I/O, variable cascade- able microsequencers like their eps448 state machine with on-chip stack and 448 words of programmable microcode, and their newest: the multiple array matrix (MAX) architecture offering from 16 to 128 macrocells per chip ( of which only the 32 bit version is real) And since you must know: MMI published the BASIC and Fortran source code for 20 and 24 pin PALASMs in the second edition ( 1981 ) of their PAL Programmable Array Logic databook. Source code for the current versions sell for $500. Even better, there is a much more understandable and succinct Forth PAL compiler source code in both the MMI 2nd Ed. "Systems Design Handbook" and in their 4th edition "Programmable Logic Handbook". There is an excellent Forth for the ST, and Stolowitz, who wrote the Forth PAL compiler, has since written a version which writes JEDEC files you could download to very expensive rs232 linked DATA-I/O type commercial PAL programmers. There are complete descriptions of the programming procedure for 20 and 24 pin PALs in National Semi's '86 "Programmable Logic Design Guide". This includes necessary waveforms and info on slew rate limits. The timing and pin driver circuits aren't as trivial as in Eprom blasting. And when you're done you still won't be able to handle EEPAL (GAL), EPLD, FPLA, FPLS, or any of the vast array of non 20 or 24 pin programmable logic devices. Sorry to do so much talking, but I had some time to kill; mostly I couldn't sleep. Good Luck. You'll learn a lot if you do it. It's strange how much more one learns by doing things one's own way, and by ignoring the experts! Msg#: 9328 *GENERAL* 10/28/88 15:52:24 From: JIM NELSON To: JIM NELSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 9298 (PAL PROGRAMMERS) It's even more of a thrill to program the 68 pin plcc packages, which _do_ exist. Msg#: 9339 *GENERAL* 10/28/88 21:00:08 From: EDWARD SCHRAM To: JIM NELSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 9183 (PAL PROGRAMMERS) the free programs to not operate a programmer. They will provide a JEDEC file for the programmer but do not operate the actual programmer. You can get PALASM directly from a distributer or call AMD/MMI (800 -????) Msg#: 9399 *GENERAL* 10/30/88 10:27:20 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: EDWARD SCHRAM (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 9339 (PAL PROGRAMMERS) Or you can download PALASM.ARC from the CP/M Utility file area here. I'm not sure why it's in the CP/M area. It may be it contains object code for the Z80. It also contains the FORTRAN source, so it should be usable by anyone with a compiler. Msg#: 9403 *GENERAL* 10/30/88 11:00:07 From: EDWARD SCHRAM To: KEN DAVIDSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 9399 (PAL PROGRAMMERS) If it is the newest version it requires 6 disks and will not have the source with it. The PALASM program has grwon drastically since the initial release of the FORTRAN program. Msg#: 9467 *GENERAL* 10/31/88 14:52:04 From: NEIL CHERRY To: JIM NELSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 9183 (PAL PROGRAMMERS) I too own an Atari ST, and I would like to be able to have a pal/pla burner. What are the current designs which are simple to use and what manuals are available that are not manufacturer manuals. I'm not looking to spend an arm and a leg. I'm just a hobbiest who is starting to work with 32 bit cpus. Pal and such would make my design work go much smoother. Thanks, NJC. Msg#: 9797 *GENERAL* 11/08/88 07:47:16 From: JIM NELSON To: NEIL CHERRY (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 9467 (PAL PROGRAMMERS) Neil, All the information I have on programmable logic has been provided by the manufacturers. I don't know where else to find it. The easiest and cheapest route is to find a friend with an ibm. The Zap-A-Pal project described in Byte a couple of years ago is available in kit form for $250. It programs most 20 and 24 pin bipolar as well as UV eraseable cmos EPLDs. Call Retnel Systems (617=508) 683-4659. Their ad in VLSI Systems Design warns against buying cheap Asian Ripoffs - I wonder just how cheap? PLT (303/772-9059) sells a cheap ($500) programmer dedicated to the Lattice EEPROM based Generic array logic, which replaces the whole family of the older MMI bipolar pals with two or three chips. It is a serially linked programmer. Somebody told me there's an IBM PC emulator called PC Ditto that runs on the ST. If that really works you might be able to get by with a terminal program, a serially linked PAL blaster, and with the software included with the PAL blaster or the free PALASM (MMI) or AMAZE (Signetics) software. Msg#: 9805 *GENERAL* 11/08/88 15:33:28 From: NEIL CHERRY To: JIM NELSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 9797 (PAL PROGRAMMERS) MUCH-O GRADUATES! Thanks for the info, this will go a long way toward simplifying board design. NJC Msg#: 9008 *GENERAL* 10/23/88 10:38:58 From: MARK LAMPKIN To: JOSEPH PUGLISI (Rcvd) Subj: HVAC TYPE CONTROLLERS This is a field where there are many competitors,comercially speaking.....T he field seems to be dominated by three giants at this moment....Barber- Coleman,Johnson Controls and Honeywell....Any of these people are a good source of information,transducers and generally speaking,some good ideas as to how far things have gone....There is a smaller concern,which seems to have some innovative ideas,Control-Pak Corp.,in Farmington Hills,Mich... .. Try to get some literature from them,also....I have done a bit of HVAC and security consulting in these fields,myself.If I can be of any help,drop me a message......Mark Msg#: 9121 *GENERAL* 10/25/88 04:43:44 From: JOSEPH PUGLISI To: MARK LAMPKIN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 9008 (HVAC TYPE CONTROLLERS) Thank you very much Mark. I think I will take you up on your offer in the near future. Joseph. Msg#: 9016 *GENERAL* 10/23/88 13:32:49 From: ART BUSSURE To: ED NISLEY (Rcvd) Subj: STEPPER MOTOR CONTROL STEVE I AM INTERESTED IN CONTROLLING STEPPER MOTORS THROUGH THE PRINTER PORT AS YOU DID IN THE SONAR SENSOR PROJECT. HOWEVER I WOULD LIKE TO CONTROL AN X-Y TABLE. ALL I WOULD NEED WOULD BE STEP AND DIRECTION FOR THE X AND Y AXIS AND A SIGNAL TO CONTROL A Z AXIS. THE SOFTWARE WOULD HAVE TO BE ABLE TO DO LINEAR INTERPOLATION. IN THE END I WOULD LIKE TO BE ABLE TO CONTROL THE X-Y TABLE FROM AN HPGL FILE OFF A CAD SYSTEM. I GUESS WHAT I'M LOOKING FOR IS AN X-Y PLOTTER TYPE DEVICE DONE WITH SOFTWARE VERSES HARDWARE. ANY SUGGESTIONS YOU MIGHT HAVE WOULD BE GREATLY APPRECIATED. ON A DIFFERENT NOTE HOW CAN I USE YOUR IMAGE WISE DEVICE WITH A CAD PROGRAM. WHAT I WOULD LIKE TO DO IS DIGITIZE AN IMAGE ON THE SCREEN AND THE WITH THE CAD SOFTWARE I COULD TRACE THE OUTLINE OF THE IMAGE AND THE GENERATE A PLOT OF THE IMAGE. I'VE SEEN THIS DONE WITH MICROGRAFIX SOFTWARE WHICH SUPPORTS A PHOTOSCANNER. HOWEVER YOUR LIMITED TO A TWO DIMENSIONAL IMAGE. IF I COULD YOUR USE YOUR IMAGE WISE DEVICE I COULD GET PLOTS FROM THREE D IMENSIONAL OBJECTS. I JUST SUBSCRIBED LAST WEEK TO THE CIRCUIT CELLAR AND REALLY ENJOY YOUR PUBLICATION. IN FACT I ORDERD ALL OF YOUR BACK ISSUES. KEEP UP THE GOOD WORK ART Msg#: 9278 *GENERAL* 10/27/88 23:03:24 From: ED NISLEY To: ART BUSSURE (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 9016 (STEPPER MOTOR CONTROL) If the interface to the XY table is just two signals for each axis, you can use four bits from the printer port and twiddle them using a touch of software. The real killer part of that project would be the code to maintain the current position and meter out the pulses at the right rate to keep the servos happy; you'd surely need a "home" limit switch at one end of the travel for each axis to calibrate the current location. Take a look at the Firmware Furnace column for some tips on generating pulses and measuring time on the PC. What you need is even more grisly than that, but it can be done if you're determined. Actually, what might make more sense is to put a very simple low level processor (like an 8031) between the PC and the motors. You risk re-inventing the wheel here, but the advantage is that the 8031 is a LOT better at generating accurate timings. Once you've got the motors stepping along, you CANNOT miss a pulse just because somebody did 16 keys worth of typeahead and your program got interrupted by the BIOS blowing the PC's horn. Ugh. Once you've got the low level code running, then converting HPGL into motor directions is reasonably straightforward (as long as you don't have to emulate the whole HPGL plotter smash... you just throw out the codes you don't understand!). Actually, you'd be surprised at how little hardware there is in a plotter: it's all firmware anyhow. As far as digitizing things off the ImageWise, I think it won't be quite as satisfactory as you'd like. Remember that there are only 256 pels across the screen: that's pretty low resolution for a CAD drawing. While you could multiply the incoming coordinates by, say, 4 to get a 1K space, the image would still be pretty gritty. The scanners have 300 dot per inch resolution which lets you draw some very fine lines; you need lots of dots to get a good result. If this looks familiar, I may have uploaded it twice... lost track a while ago... Msg#: 9019 *GENERAL* 10/23/88 18:19:20 From: DALE REID To: SYSOP (Rcvd) Subj: SCAN AHEAD Hi, I just signed on again after a few months abcense (sp) and find that the system doesn't remember me. I tried to get partway through the messages that have already been taken off, but I don't see a sequence that will allow me to go part way through the outstanding messages, and read from there to the end, and then reset my message-read-counter. Anyway to do this, or am I stuck getting tens of minutes of phone time burned getting caught up to where I used to be? Thanks Dale Msg#: 9053 *GENERAL* 10/24/88 09:30:21 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: DALE REID (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 9019 (SCAN AHEAD) I delete names of those who haven't called for 90 days. Even at that, we have over 2500 names in the caller list. I think I see what you're asking, but I'm not sure. To start in the middle of the message base and read forward, select ead messages, then orward read. Tell the system the number of the message you want to start with and you'll get all the messages after that. It's up to you to determine which message to start with, but by reading a few, it shouldn't be that hard to decide. The "last message read" pointer is updated at the end of your call automatically. Msg#: 9273 *GENERAL* 10/27/88 22:33:13 From: DALE REID To: KEN DAVIDSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 9053 (SCAN AHEAD) Ken Thanks. I'll try that. Sorry I haven't been more active. Too Many Projects! And glad of it, but I'm trying to be more regular here. Say is PC Pursuit available here yet? I know there was talk for awhile, but haven't heard further. It would cut down on the bills! Dale Msg#: 9304 *GENERAL* 10/28/88 08:39:57 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: DALE REID Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 9273 (SCAN AHEAD) Yes, the PC Pursuit outdial in Hartford became active about a month ago. I've been meaning to post more information in a special section here, but haven't had the time. Perhaps this weekend... Msg#: 9024 *GENERAL* 10/23/88 22:09:44 From: IAN BAYNE To: ALL Subj: C PROG. Is C program for the most part about the same between different computers?? I really meant C programming Language. Msg#: 9025 *GENERAL* 10/23/88 22:59:02 From: MICHAEL HOBSON To: IAN BAYNE (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 9024 (C PROG.) C as a language is meant to be very portable across different systems, as long as you stick with the Standard Library functions. The ANSI committee is supposed to be close to publishing a standard for C and its function libraries, which should help to improve portability considerably. Hardware specific functions still have to be written for the machine you intend the program to run on. If you just want to manipulate files and standard system I/O (consoles, printers, etc.) portability shouldn't be a problem. As soon as you start messing with specific hardware port addresses (E.G. - IBM PC Timer/Counter Chip) or specific hardware memory addresses (IBM PC video display buffers), your program couldn't be expected to be portable anyway. C makes it pretty easy to confine non-portable features to one or two modules, and transport the rest of your code fairly intact. .......................................[^]-[^] ........................................\---/. "The Elf" Msg#: 9528 *GENERAL* 11/01/88 17:31:33 From: IAN BAYNE To: MICHAEL HOBSON Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 9025 (C PROG.) Ok, thanks, then say I'm programming on an I dont know Apple (Which I'm DEFINITELY NOT) then I could program with literrature for an IBM right?? Ian L. Bayne Msg#: 9026 *GENERAL* 10/23/88 23:20:41 From: KEN MUNKHOLM To: MARK LAMPKIN (Rcvd) Subj: HVAC EMS CONTROLS Who is Control-Pac and what do they market? My company is an HVAC controls outfit in B.C. Canada. We are looking to complement our larger EMS system with a smaller one, better suited to smaller buildings. Any information would be greatly appreciated. Ken Munkholm Msg#: 9101 *GENERAL* 10/24/88 21:28:13 From: MARK LAMPKIN To: KEN MUNKHOLM (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 9026 (HVAC EMS CONTROLS) Ken....Control-pak Corp. is owned by John T. Harley,who is also the president...The real brains behind the outfit is(was) Fred Davidon.He designed the unit.Larry Thiez is the marketting person(?)...Their unit is capable of handling anything from large homes up...Pretty neat unit..They have some workings,or at least they did,with Barber-Coleman......Maybe you could get together....Mark Msg#: 9115 *GENERAL* 10/25/88 00:28:29 From: KEN MUNKHOLM To: MARK LAMPKIN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 9101 (HVAC EMS CONTROLS) Thanks Mark Ken Msg#: 9028 *GENERAL* 10/24/88 01:21:45 From: EDWARD SCHRAM To: BOB PADDOCK (Rcvd) Subj: XINU I have been looking for the 68000 port. I believe it is on the UNIX network and I will be calling that in a couple of days. There is a XINU upload here. Did you see if that was it? I can also upload the complete Z80 version. Yes, when finished the 68000 port will be available without the board. However if you have the tapes then you have the majority of the code. What you don't have you will probably have to rewrite anyway. All but the context switcher but that is easy. Msg#: 9045 *GENERAL* 10/24/88 07:34:08 From: BOB PADDOCK To: EDWARD SCHRAM (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 9028 (XINU) I uploaded the XINU that is on here, the stuff that isn't in "C" is PDP-11 assembler. I know nothing about the PDP-11; but if you could upload the Z80 version, I'am sure I can convert it to 68k (actualy I wan't to go to the 68070). Msg#: 9033 *GENERAL* 10/24/88 01:45:05 From: SIMON SABATO To: DALE NASSAR (Rcvd) Subj: LASER POINTERS Gee, I had assumed that an HeNe tube would be too large for a pointer. I have one (2mw) and it alone is about as big as what you described (7" x 3/4") Then you need the power supply and 10 volts (I use 8 1.2 volt nicads). The tube alone was $169 (but much cheaper for used and surplus - I see them at $30). I would be interested in the address of Edmund Scientific and would really appreciate the info on the 750 nm diode lasers. One last thing: does Edmund also sell laser mirrors. I have been trying effects (bouncing beams, etc) without much success due to the fact that everytime the laser bounces, it loses much power and focus (using standard drugstore mirrors that have been cut). -Simon Sabato Msg#: 9043 *GENERAL* 10/24/88 04:26:31 From: DALE NASSAR To: SIMON SABATO (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 9033 (LASER POINTERS) The HeNe tube in the Edmund pointer is 4 1/2" long and 1/2" thick and the power pack looks like it only has the volume of about 2 1/2 "AA" cells this product is manufactured by LASORNIX, inc 310 VIA Vera Cruz Suite 107 San Marcos, Ca. 92069 and dist by: Edmund Scientific 101 E. Gloucester Pike Barrington, NJ. 08007 Edmund has a wide viarity of low cost front-surface mirrors at low cost. Ask for the catalog for optics, science and education. The Shard diodes can be powered by 4 "AA" cells with current limiting. See if you can find the Dec 85 and Jan 86 issues of Modern Electronics. The Electronics Notebook column has details for driving circuitry. This is also avialiable from Sharp. I don't have Sharp's address in front of me, but if you can't find it let me know. Sharp also manufactures a very low-cost IC (IR3C02) which monitors the laser output via its built in photodiode to regulate the forward current which can become excessive if ambient temperature decreases. --Dale Msg#: 9039 *GENERAL* 10/24/88 02:17:25 From: SIMON SABATO To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: LASER SAFETY I know that a 2mw HeNe laser is class IIIA and requires a DANGER sticker on it for commercial applications, but just how dangerous are they to the eyes? How much exposure does it take to do damage? Is it cumulative (like lead poisoning) or one shot (like a car accident - either your blind or you aren't). Today I had a reflecting set up going, and the final spot wasn't showing. I glanced around for the sport, looked at my watch- and recoiled about 10 feet, as the laser was reflected right into my eyes. Luckily, the two mirrors and the watch all diffused the beam enough so that by the time it got to my eyes I just saw the whole field of vision turn red. -Simon Sabato Msg#: 9046 *GENERAL* 10/24/88 08:55:04 From: BOB STOUT To: SIMON SABATO (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 9039 (LASER SAFETY) After working with 2mw to 5mw helium neon lasers for two years it has been my experience that you would have to stare straight into a 2mw laser for a quite a while to do any permanent harm; you'd get a bad headache long before. Same precautions should be used as you would with staring at the sun (why would you want to?) or at the flash of an arc welder. Msg#: 9087 *GENERAL* 10/24/88 15:00:51 From: STEVE CIARCIA To: SIMON SABATO (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 9039 (LASER SAFETY) I am no doctor but I would guess that eye damage is a combination of time and power. A 50 mW laser will zap you faster than a 2 mW one but both are capable of the task. In my case, I bought protective glasses especially for use with the IR lasers: no telling where that little buggar is aimed. Also, As I mentioned in a previous message, I used a CCD camera to easily see the IR beam and focus point by viewing the monitor. While He-Ne is visible and you can see when you have it aimed wrong it can give you a false sense of security. After playing with HeNe lasers a lot, it is too easy to buy a cheap laser diode and fire it up thinking it is just as safe. Unfortunately, you can be looking straight at it and not know it! Wear protective glasses! --Steve Msg#: 9095 *GENERAL* 10/24/88 17:33:38 From: ALEXANDER SCHNEIDER To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 9087 (LASER SAFETY) But if you are looking straight into it without knowing it, wouldn't that tend to say that IR diodes aren't quite as dangerous? Would the retina still be damaged even though the water inside the eye should attenuate much of the IR? Alex Msg#: 9113 *GENERAL* 10/25/88 00:06:37 From: KEITH TUCHOLSKI To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 9087 (LASER SAFETY) A QUESTION: WOULD A CURTAIN OF A FLAT BLAT CLOTH AROUND THE LASER WORK AREA IMPROVE SAFETY? Msg#: 9139 *GENERAL* 10/25/88 10:08:00 From: STEVE CIARCIA To: ALEXANDER SCHNEIDER (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 9095 (LASER SAFETY) You guys are talking to the wrong man. I bought a pair of safety glasses. There's laser warning signs all over this stuff. Perhaps it's all a hoax and there is no danger. I'm not going to find out the hard way how much the water in my eyes attenuates IR radiation. They hurt just staring at a lit LED :-) --Steve Msg#: 9188 *GENERAL* 10/26/88 02:53:07 From: DALE NASSAR To: SIMON SABATO (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 9039 (LASER SAFETY) Judging from publications from the BRH and the Surgeon General I would say that using these low power IR lasers without safety glasses does to the eyes what smoking does to the lungs. :-( --Dale Msg#: 9291 *GENERAL* 10/28/88 01:34:19 From: SIMON SABATO To: BOB STOUT (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 9046 (LASER SAFETY) Call me strange, call me crazy, but I prefer "quick death" kinds of dangers (like being hit by a bus) to the "cumulative" type (like lead poisoning or smoking), which is why I asked. Is laser damage cumulative, or are just blind or not after being zapped. The strange thing about laser light is it is so concentrated that it can do more damage than the sun without you recieving the "pain". Being zzapped by HeNe just makes everything flash red before you blink. -Simon Sabato Msg#: 9083 *GENERAL* 10/24/88 14:39:47 From: ROSS STONE To: MARK VOORHEES (Rcvd) Subj: RGB TO NTSC CONVERTOR I've read your articles on RGB to NTSC conversion with great interest. I have an application in which I need to "glitchlessly" switch between a video source (e.g., a VCR) and computer-generated graphics (on an IBM PC clone). This raises several questions: 1. Can you point me to one of the "$60" convertors you mention? What is the difference between this and what you present in your article (I think I know the answer, but I want to make sure)? 2. Is it possible to feed an external synch source into your convertor? How? Ideally, I'd like to feed an external *video* signal into the convertor, have it strip synch, and synch the convertor. 3. Can you point me to a convertor that can handle 640 x 400 or 480 RGB? Can your circuit be modified to handle this? How? I suspect that the limit for a normal TV using NTSC is somewhere around 350 to 400 vertical lines - sorry, forget that sentence. The problem is obviously the 262/263 line alternating frame interlace. Shouldn't it be possible to read the data out of a core image buffer in such a fashion as to achieve the higher resolution? Can you point me toward a reference (book or person via telephone)that can get me up to speed on doing this computer graphics/TV mixing? How much of this is already "done for you" in an Atari ST or an Amiga? HELP! If you want to call me, 619-459-8305 or 619-454-0240 are good any time. THANK YOU!! Msg#: 9104 *GENERAL* 10/24/88 21:52:32 From: ALLEN MILLER To: ALL Subj: EPROM PROGRAMMERS I am in need of an EPROM burner capable of programming all 27xx(x) as well as the 2864, which is a EEPROM which programs at 5v. JAMECO has their Applied Reader Technology Programmer for $179.95 which connects to COM port. There is an Modular Circuit Technology (MCT) nodular programmer with a host adaptor card for $119.95 (card free until Oct 31.) I have one slot free in my AT, or could use the COM port...either way. Does anyone have any experience with either of these or can you recommend something else? I have seen others with higher prices but which do not specify being able to program the 2864 EEPROM. My previous experience is with a Jason-Randheim Promenade C-1 which I used with a Commodore C-64, and it worked very well. It was all that was available. The choices for the PC seem much more difficult. THANKS for assistance. Allen Miller, Glastonbury, CT. Msg#: 9107 *GENERAL* 10/24/88 22:42:52 From: ED EMICH To: ALL Subj: DEBUG31 Any one know of a cheep 8051 disiassembler? Can I use debug31 as one without the DDT51?? Thanks for any help ED Msg#: 9124 *GENERAL* 10/25/88 07:56:46 From: BOB PADDOCK To: ED EMICH (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 9107 (DEBUG31) I'll upload the one I found a BBS a while ago, but I've never used it, so I don't know how good it is. (It might actualy be from the BBS, but the old Z-MSG system?) Msg#: 9108 *GENERAL* 10/24/88 22:58:40 From: DAVID CORNELL To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: RS232 PC-MAC Steve, In ASK BYTE, October 1988, a letter from Chester H. Lin in Taipei, Taiwan Republic of China asks for help connecting a Macintosh to an IBM PC XT. I have given a talk and demo on "Practical Serial Port Interfacing" at two of the computer clubs in New Jersey. Part of the demo was showing how to figure out the connections for a Mac to PC serial cable and transferring ASCII data between the two using Public Domain/Shareware programs. The demo was summerized in an artcle in the Newsletter of The Amateur Computer Group of New Jersey. I would be happy to send a copy of the article to Dr. Lin if you think it would be helpful and would provide his address. Thanks. David Cornell Reply has been deleted Msg#: 9109 *GENERAL* 10/24/88 23:09:17 From: KEN HOWELL To: ANYONE Subj: CMOS SPEECH CHIP I'm looking for a cmos speech chip, or chip set. Any suggestions? --Ken. Msg#: 9125 *GENERAL* 10/25/88 07:59:57 From: BOB PADDOCK To: KEN HOWELL (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 9109 (CMOS SPEECH CHIP) You question is a bit vage, do you want unlimited vocabularly (SSI 263), or some thing that sounds good (limited time & vocabulary) A Mistsubishi masked CMOS ROM part (Don't rember the number)? Msg#: 9172 *GENERAL* 10/25/88 21:32:07 From: KEN HOWELL To: BOB PADDOCK (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 9125 (CMOS SPEECH CHIP) Sorry for the obscurity. I want a cmos speech chip, with limited vocabulary, but good quality sound. It doesn't need to sound lifelike, but should be easily understandable over the phone. As long as it does numbers and has about 20 verbs or so, I can live with it. I'd also prefer something with not a lot of pins. --Ken. Msg#: 9118 *GENERAL* 10/25/88 03:30:34 From: GREG BELL To: ALL Subj: VOICE SYNTHESIZER CHIPS What is the best sounding phoenem (sp?) voice synthesizer chip? I've played with GI's (the one Radio-Shack carries) but was unimpressed with the quality. I love Digitalker's quality, but it has a limited vocabulary since its not a phoenem synthesizer..... How 'bout Hero's? (by Heathkit) GBell Msg#: 9126 *GENERAL* 10/25/88 08:01:08 From: BOB PADDOCK To: GREG BELL (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 9118 (VOICE SYNTHESIZER CHIPS) I beleive Hero uses the SSI263. Has any one heard a phoenem synthesizer type system that sounds good? Msg#: 9135 *GENERAL* 10/25/88 09:33:16 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: BOB PADDOCK (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 9126 (VOICE SYNTHESIZER CHIPS) I always thought Hero used an SC01 or SC02, but I may be thinking back to when it was first brought out. They may have updated it by now. It's been my experience that "good-sounding phoneme speech" is an oxymoron (like "military intelligence," to use a worn-out example). The only way to do speech these days is to use some form of digitizing and playback (assuming you can live with a fixed-size vocabulary and the memory necessary). You trade off speech quality for vocabulary size and memory requirements. Msg#: 9144 *GENERAL* 10/25/88 12:08:31 From: BOB PADDOCK To: KEN DAVIDSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 9135 (VOICE SYNTHESIZER CHIPS) The SC02 is the SSI263. SSI is a 'silicon house' that did the SC01 for Vortrac (Spelling?) but only Vortrac had the liscance to sell it. When the SC02 was done, SSI started selling it under thier own number also. VDj/v.gv=>X|x2i5#y^ >X5C!r4NX< B[#n2^>pZp^7 YfeouNu3 i4Aif>JtkR i>MUXR|diNGr)PvXe|[ |/p-m^-! 5J5O}^sdr|O6[a~?~?~?~?~ Msg#: 9152 *GENERAL* 10/25/88 13:20:01 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: BOB PADDOCK (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 9144 (VOICE SYNTHESIZER CHIPS) Hey, that's neat. I always wondered how the SC02 was improved over the SC01. Since I know all about the SSI263, I guess I now know about the SC02. Thanks. Msg#: 9170 *GENERAL* 10/25/88 20:46:45 From: GEORGE NICOLACOPULOS To: BOB PADDOCK (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 9126 (VOICE SYNTHESIZER CHIPS) As per the manual on Heath's Hero, it uses the SC01 chip Steve C. did an article on a few years back in BYTE. George Msg#: 9207 *GENERAL* 10/26/88 10:15:19 From: STEVE CIARCIA To: KEN DAVIDSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 9152 (VOICE SYNTHESIZER CHIPS) Hey, Ken, anytime you want to see the original prototype of the SC02, walk over to my office. It is a multilayer PC board with about 200 CMOS ICs. I was consulting to Votrax at the time and put them in touch with the company that made the proto. Eventually this whole board was reduced to a single chip called the SC-02/SSI263. Votrax paid for the development of the SC-02 but couldn't finalize the deal. Silicon system got impatient and marketed the chip as the SSI-263. I don't believe it was ever sold as the SC-02 unless it was recent. --Steve Msg#: 9209 *GENERAL* 10/26/88 11:22:02 From: JEFF BACHIOCHI To: GREG BELL (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 9118 (VOICE SYNTHESIZER CHIPS) . Greg, . Micromint is working on a standalone Pre-recorded Sound Output board. ADPCM code is held in EPROMS. 8-27512's will hold up to 3 minutes of speech or sound. This is controlled through a serial port, a parallel port or the BCC_BUS. . A second board is under developement to allow recording of your own vocab/sounds. A rather large prerecorded library will be available for those who only need a few standard phrases. You can combine just the phrases you need into your own EPROM. . jeff Msg#: 9219 *GENERAL* 10/26/88 15:30:58 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 9207 (VOICE SYNTHESIZER CHIPS) Sheesh. It's amazing how you can sometimes learn more by typing on this thing than face to face. Msg#: 9165 *GENERAL* 10/25/88 19:47:05 From: AL RADKE To: CHIP VOELKER Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 418 (640 K ON MOTHER BOARD IN A PC) Hi Chip I work at a computer store and have found that there are three types of motherboards. Some will only take 64K or 256K and require an add on board but the 640K board will not. If you have a 640K board, to have 640K, if you now have 256K, you need 9 41256K chips and 18 4164K chips. If your machine is 4.77 or 8 then use 150 nano second chips. For 10Mhz, use 120 nano second. If you look at the board, the 41256 will go in bank 1 (bank 0 should already be filled) and the 4164 will go in bank 2 and 3. There may be dip switches on the motherboard or a jumper to set the board for 256/640K If you need any more help, leave a message and describe the type of board you have. Al Radke Msg#: 9425 *GENERAL* 10/31/88 02:50:25 From: JOSEPH PUGLISI To: AL RADKE Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 9165 (640 K ON MOTHER BOARD IN A PC) Sorry to jump in like this, but I was wondering if you can help me. *This past summer I wanted to upgrade a AT&T 6300 with 512K to 640K This machine had 256K on the motherboard and 256K on a slot. I added the additional 128K on the two empty banks of the slot. After setting the dip swiches to, what I think was, the right position, only 512K was reported to DOS. Here is my question, is there a jumper that needs to be opened, if so where is it? I have been looking for this info in just about every manual I got my hands on. However, they always fall short. Thank You, Joseph Msg#: 9198 *GENERAL* 10/26/88 08:58:53 From: ED MUSTHALER To: ALL Subj: KEYBOARD INTERFACE This board is a terrific source of information, thanks. Now maybe someone can give me some guidance on a project I'm working on. I have, at this time 4 computers running different tasks. I would like to use one pcjr keyboard with IR cordless link to control all of them selectivly. 2 are xt's, 1 is a z80 type controller expecting serial ASCII, and 1 expects parallel ASCII. My approach is this; A IR reciever into a uart into 2 roms, rom 1 with xt scan codes, and rom 2 with ASCII, finally another uart to the serial comp- -uters, and a parallel tap of the ASCII rom for the other. Am I approaching this correctly, or would I be better of with a small programmable controller? Has anyone heard of this being done before? Beside the pcjr, was there ever a cordless link keyboard offered for the xt's? Thanks! Msg#: 9230 *GENERAL* 10/26/88 23:03:35 From: ANDY PICKETT To: BUDDY PRICE (Rcvd) Subj: ELECTRONIC COMPASS Buddy: The ap-note will be in the mail tomorrow. Don't worry about the postage - - I've gotten so much good info from this BBS that it's the least I can do for everyone else! Enjoy..... -->Andy<-- Msg#: 9237 *GENERAL* 10/27/88 01:26:26 From: ROSS STONE To: ALL Subj: RGB TO NTSC CONVERTOR (This is a -hopefully - slightly more intelligably phrased request than an earlier message on the same subject.) I need to find either a commercially - avialable device or, preferably, a circuit for accomplishing the following: I need to be able to display 640 x 400 or 480 color PC graphics on an NTSC composite-video monitor, as well as be able to overlay them onto ordinary video. There are at least three problems involved in this. First, I have to convert the RGB output of the graphics card to NTSC composite video. Mark Voorhees Converter in CCI #1 (part of the Weather Center) does this, but only for _non-interlaced_ video (and only for 200 line vertical resolution, in part because of this and in part because of the convertor's clock frequency, if I understand things correctly). Second, in order to get 400 or 480 line vertical resolution, I need either an interlaced graphics card or a non-interlaced to interlaced convertor. As an example, the Amiga puts out interlaced RGB graphics. Third, I need to be able to synch (this is often called genlocking) the converted graphics to the video to be overlayed. This involves feeding in the video, stripping the synch, and using this synch in the RGB to NTSC convertor. Any and all help would be GREATLY appreciated. I think the lowest cost and most satisfactory solution would be a modified and enhanced version of Mark Voorhees circuit (or equivalent) , but I'm not 100% sure I can accomplish the noninterlaced to interlaced conversion using a standard (and therefore low cost) PC graphics board (e.g., an extended EGA or VGA). If someone wants to call me instead of leaving mail, my numbers are (619)-454-0240 or (619)-454-0240, both of which are good any time. Thank you! Ross Stone. Msg#: 9259 *GENERAL* 10/27/88 13:05:44 From: FOSTER SCHUCKER To: EDWARD SCHRAM (Rcvd) Subj: Z80 XINU Hi there, I would be interested in the Z80 version of XINU. I have a number of Z80 systems that should be big enough to run XINU. Please contact me at (215) 648-3498 or leave a note here. Thanks!! Msg#: 9262 *GENERAL* 10/27/88 14:57:07 From: DOUGLAS MACE To: ALL Subj: HELP!TEK-HEX FORMAT Does anyone have a conversion utility to convert 8080/48 assembler .OBJ files to TEK-HEX format. I am using an older style EPROM burner which requires the code to be transfered/received in this format. The utility must run under an Z80 environment. ANY assist would be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance, Douglas C. Mace Reading, Penna. Msg#: 9264 *GENERAL* 10/27/88 16:57:56 From: CURTIS MACKEY To: SYSOP (Rcvd) Subj: PRINTED CIRCUIT CAD PROGRAM WHAT HAPPEN TO THE DROGE1,2,&3.ARC PROGRAMS IN THE IBM / ELECTRICAL ENG. SECTION OF THE DOWNLOAD SECTION? I HAVE THE FIRST TWO ARC FILES AND I NEED THE THIRD - DROGE3.ARC. THANK YOY FOR YOUR ASSISTANCE. CAM Msg#: 9307 *GENERAL* 10/28/88 08:52:26 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: CURTIS MACKEY (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 9264 (PRINTED CIRCUIT CAD PROGRAM) Please read the bulletins when you call. I explained exactly what happened to the Droege programs there. Go to the System Information section from the main menu to reread the bulletins. Msg#: 9268 *GENERAL* 10/27/88 19:10:22 From: JASON FARQUE' To: ALL Subj: 8051/31 - Z8XXX . All, . . I am an embedded systems programmer in Tulsa, Oklahoma, and am seriously considering starting a bulletin board system here based around programming and designing with the 8051 family as well as the Z8 family of chips. In order to do this, I would need support (naturally enough) and users. So I put it to you, would any of you USE a bulletin board system that specialized in these chips and the software to drive them? I would expect the board to contain source code for many routines, as well as hardware design applications from all over the nation. Being located in Oklahoma is particularly benificial, as it is well-placed geographically. I would anticipate callers from both coasts and throughout the states. If you are interested in this possibility, please leave a reply. I guess I'm takin' a vote here... . . Msg#: 9329 *GENERAL* 10/28/88 16:52:37 From: RICHARD ANDREWS To: JASON FARQUE' (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 9268 (8051/31 - Z8XXX) . I think that it would work out well. Since the board is specific to only a couple of processors you could get into more detail than is possible on a more general board like this one. If and when you get it up and running let me know. Msg#: 9337 *GENERAL* 10/28/88 20:09:38 From: JASON FARQUE' To: RICHARD ANDREWS (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 9329 (8051/31 - Z8XXX) . Thanks Richard. Would you be able to contribute code/advice? . . I think the idea has merit, but USERS would have to back it up. Thanks for the reply... . . Msg#: 9514 *GENERAL* 11/01/88 12:11:52 From: DOUGLAS MACE To: JASON FARQUE' (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 9268 (8051/31 - Z8XXX) Jason, Yes I would be interested in supporting a BBS with specifics on these particular chips. I also do quite a bet of embedded systems work. Looking forward to you going online. Doug C. Mace,Reading, PA Msg#: 9540 *GENERAL* 11/01/88 23:11:08 From: TOM ARNOLD To: JASON FARQUE' (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 9268 (8051/31 - Z8XXX) I'm calling here specifically for Z8 support. I would certainly call a board which supports my pet chip. I am hoping to write PD software for it (I have source code for a C-- compiler which should be a piece of cake to cross-recode) and will upload come such time as it becomes reality. I have a friend here in Chicago (Eric Bohlman; calls here too) who does 8051 embedment; seems like a prospect for you. Msg#: 9571 *GENERAL* 11/02/88 13:12:26 From: JASON FARQUE' To: TOM ARNOLD (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 9540 (8051/31 - Z8XXX) . Tom, . . Your C-- compiler for Z8 sounds like quite a little project. No pun intended. Which Z8 chip are you using; Z8671 or Romless? Romless I would suspect. You're not writing a C compiler (interpreter?) in Tiny BASIC are you? Thanks for you input, and I look forward to seeing you on my board in the future. I'll leave you a message as to when to look for it... . . Msg#: 9619 *GENERAL* 11/03/88 15:30:05 From: JEFF LEGG To: JASON FARQUE' (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 9268 (8051/31 - Z8XXX) Jason: I would use your bulletin board often. I have a hard time locating routines etc... for Micro controllers. Jeff Legg Msg#: 9628 *GENERAL* 11/03/88 21:26:28 From: JASON FARQUE' To: JEFF LEGG Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 9619 (8051/31 - Z8XXX) . Jeff, . . Thanks for the reply... What kind of business/hobby are you in that you need the support? And, do you think you'd be able to find OTHER people to call as well? . . Jason . . Msg#: 9271 *GENERAL* 10/27/88 22:18:19 From: ED NISLEY To: ED EMICH (Rcvd) Subj: 8031 DISASSEMBLER DEBUG31 does include a one-instruction disassembler, but it's not really set up for undoing a complete program. You'd need to do a lot of work to get from where it is now to where you want to go. So it goes.. Msg#: 9477 *GENERAL* 11/01/88 00:53:09 From: KEN LOGSDON To: ED NISLEY (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 9271 (8031 DISASSEMBLER) Speaking of Intel microcontroller disassemblers, a company called Monitronics, Inc., 800 W. Rock Creek Rd., Norman, OK 73069, has code tracking disassemblers (meaning that they don't accidentally disassemble data areas) for $149.95. Their number is (405) 364-0024. Msg#: 9294 *GENERAL* 10/28/88 02:24:12 From: MARC DIAZ To: JASON FARQUE' (Rcvd) Subj: NEW BBS I would definately be interested in such a Bulletin Board ! I am from San Diego and do not mind calling long distance to a bulletin board. As a matter of fact, this is the only BBS I currently use. It is the3w- (oops !) the only worthwhile BBS I have seen so far. I am heavy into 8031 programming (and related uC's) primarily for Test Engineering applications and factory automation. Please keep me posted on your new BBS idea. Msg#: 9336 *GENERAL* 10/28/88 20:08:18 From: JASON FARQUE' To: MARC DIAZ Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 9294 (NEW BBS) . Marc, . . Terrific! I'm glad to hear that there ARE users interested in such a system. Would you be able to contribute software/hardware design to the system? I mean, the board would only be as strong as its users. I am an 8031/51 programmer, and myself would be contributing code. I too am in the industrial controller applications area of this sport. I just got to thinking to myself "You know, someone out there has already WRITTEN the code I'm about to write...". I'm tired of thinking that. It would be nice to have a place to call before I spent 2 days writing code... . . Thanks for the input! . Jason Farque' . . Msg#: 9526 *GENERAL* 11/01/88 15:55:52 From: RICHARD ANDREWS To: JASON FARQUE' (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 9336 (NEW BBS) . The closest that I have come to the 8031/8051 family is a project I did about four years ago using an 8749. I have done lots of real time embedded controller stuff so maybe I give some general advice. The 8031 is a nice price/performance package and all I need is a good excuse to get back into it again. Msg#: 9321 *GENERAL* 10/28/88 11:58:26 From: JEFF HENSHAW To: ALL Subj: MOTOROLA X-ASSEMBLER WANTED I'm looking for a cross assembler (public domain/shareware) for Motorola single chip processors - 6801,6805,68hc11xx, etc. If anyone knows where I can find such a creature, please let me know. Thanks! Jeff Msg#: 9322 *GENERAL* 10/28/88 12:26:56 From: JOHN COOK To: CCBBS STAFF Subj: DROEGE Guys, I just read your notice about removing droege from this board and I cant say that I blame you. I downloaded the entire set of files for Droege and was not impressed. There's so much documentation to learn for that program its not worth using. Also, the version I have is only CGA and on my EGA system it looks terrible. There's just not enough resolution in CGA to do much. The other problem is that its slow, being written in microsoft basic. I just think that any Basic, compiled or not, just isnt powerful enough for a CAD program. Keep up the good work. --JDC Msg#: 9393 *GENERAL* 10/30/88 09:46:53 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: JOHN COOK (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 9322 (DROEGE) Thanks for the vote of confidence. Seems to me people were always having problems with the program anyway. I guess "you get what you pay for" applies in this case. Msg#: 9341 *GENERAL* 10/28/88 21:24:51 From: EDWARD SCHRAM To: MICHAEL HOBSON Subj: 68000 AND 80386 . First, IBM does not supply a part number that I am aware of that you can order their 68000 machine. It IS in existance and not a rumor. I do take offense at being a "rumor-monger". The opinions I express are my own but if I say something that is not an opinion I can upload the reference material bibliography if you like. . . Second, my opnions of the 68000 and 80x86 are based on the current "WIDELY" available platforms for computers. VME, S-100 (soon to be S-200 we hope), PC-based, Micro-channel (wdiely avail??), and single board computer systems. If you look at all of these, the 80386 based machins are FOR THE MAJORITY USED AS FASTER 8 BIT MACHINES with a wider address bus and data bus. Why as a faster 8 bit machine, they are (majority again) used to run software for a IBM-PC which is an 8 (READ EIGHT BIT PROCESSOR AS PER INTEL ENGINEERING DOCUMENTS AND NOT OPINION). Therefore, I say, yes the 80386 may have its merits but as a platform for new designs or in a comparison to a 680x0 machine it must be used as it is most widely available. Why as most widely available, to cut down on development costs and for software debugging. As any project manager here can testify, if you have to buy a cross assembler it has to go into the end-product cost. So you don't buy a COMPAQ-386 macj\hine to assemble the code for a printer buffer you buy as PC/XT clone. Now then, based on this you have the 68000, which has always been a 16 bit machine. Count the data lines from the chip if you want. It is also extremely easy to interface to. I can teach anyone who has not designed with it before to use it in 2 hours. It is also easily upgraded in speed and instructions. Pop out the 68000 and put in a 68010 and you now have full support for UNIX on the same machine. Now the interesting part, Motorola changed the outside appearence of the machine and gave the 68020 which can and does outperform the 80386 in the most widely available machines. But still software compatible with the 68000. The 68030 at 33 mhz will outperform the 80486 (as yet unavailable) and is available now. (READ and head the announcement of NEXT!) . . And to further the debate ask your motorola rep for a sample 68040. . . Oh yes, the last SUN I opened had a MOTOROLA processor chip. Someone may recheck but I believe it was the as yet unavailable MMU that was done in discrete, but is now available as a one chip solution, or the 68030 has it built in. Msg#: 9377 *GENERAL* 10/29/88 19:37:48 From: ALEXANDER SCHNEIDER To: EDWARD SCHRAM (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 9341 (68000 AND 80386) The Sun 3 family is built around the MC68020. The Sun 4 family is built around the unique to Sun, but public domain SPARC RISC architecture, not object code compatible to the 68020. No Sun 5 as of yet, but they are promising 100 MHz in GaAs for Sparc, as Motorola is promising for the 88000. Alex Msg#: 9342 *GENERAL* 10/28/88 21:26:20 From: EDWARD SCHRAM To: ALL Subj: Z80-XINU As soon as I make a library of the Z80 XINU files I will upload them. What is preferred - IBM LIBRARY (pkarc) or CP/M (nulu)? Let me know. Msg#: 9362 *GENERAL* 10/29/88 10:25:55 From: BOB PADDOCK To: EDWARD SCHRAM (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 9342 (Z80-XINU) Sence the CPM UNARC utility is avaliable (it's in the CP/M UPLOAD section on here), why not make it an .ARK file (less time to download then). Msg#: 9395 *GENERAL* 10/30/88 09:58:46 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: EDWARD SCHRAM (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 9342 (Z80-XINU) As Bob said, an ARC file is fine, but not PKARC. Keep it compatible with ARC 5.22 if you want the largest number of people to be able to use it. Msg#: 9953 *GENERAL* 11/11/88 12:05:58 From: BOB PADDOCK To: EDWARD SCHRAM Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 9342 (Z80-XINU) I download and read the xinu-1 stuff today. Looks a lot simpler than I though it would be. Was there ever an XINU.NET set up, and are the news letters still being published? Looks like several people have already ported it to the 68000, and ideas where I can lay my hands on one? Thanks. Msg#: 9978 *GENERAL* 11/11/88 22:20:56 From: STEVE SAMPSON To: BOB PADDOCK (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 9953 (Z80-XINU) I uploaded that file. It is quite old though. At one time I had zinu running on my heathkit h-89 using Software Toolworks C compiler. It was very educational. The newsgroup that I made copies of may have went on for a couple more issues, but the group moderator then disapeared. This group was made up of Usenet people. I left after loosing my college account at OU. I never did see any real 68k code though, as the moderator only allowed uucp access to his Unix machine. Msg#: 9988 *GENERAL* 11/12/88 10:28:48 From: BOB PADDOCK To: STEVE SAMPSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 9978 (Z80-XINU) Ok thanks for the info. Msg#: 9350 *GENERAL* 10/29/88 01:54:54 From: RICHARD DOWLING To: JAY WELENSKY Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 98 (MODEM) No problem with 2400 b/s from Anchorage, Alaska. Reply has been deleted Msg#: 9355 *GENERAL* 10/29/88 05:04:08 From: GREG BELL To: ALL Subj: USENET Is anybody here on the USENET science/electronics conference? I don't want to detract attention from this board, but its a nice alternative to LD bills (AT&T like me :-) !). There are a lot of gurus on there, and te a few people of the 'industry' (not to say that this board doesn't have them). People from research institutions, big electronics firms, etc. All those messages on phonemn voice synthesizers and still nobody's told me which of the ones out there sounds the best! I realize phonemn doesn't compare to digitized speech, but my project is simple and doesn't have a whole lot of memory at its disposal. I need a recommendation for a good synthesizer here! (and where to get it from i.e. company address) Thanks! GBell $$$$$ running up! Msg#: 9397 *GENERAL* 10/30/88 10:13:51 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: GREG BELL (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 9355 (USENET) I agree that Usenet makes for some interesting reading and has good information, there really isn't a direct comparison. Because of its structure and size, it's difficult to carry on a one-to-one conversation and keep it public. It can also be intimidating for some users who cringe at the thought of making a factual mistake in a message that is being distributed to thousands of systems, sometimes worldwide. The biggest obstacle to most people who frequent this board, however, is the lack of access to a Unix system on Usenet. Many of our callers are relative novices to BBS usage. Can you imagine someone who's never been on-line before trying to figure out all the conventions and idiosyncrasies of Usenet? (Besides, it's a pain in the neck to have to keep reading the same root message over and over and over in every response to it. Usenet people will know what I mean; others, don't worry about it.) As for speech chips, there aren't many choices to begin with, let alone worrying about which sounds best. You probably can't even get an SC-01 anymore. The SSI263 sounds much better anyway. I don't have any experience with other phoneme chips, but also can't think of any others out there. The SC-01 and SSI263 were used by almost everyone. I don't know if Votrax and Silicon Systems are even still in business. Msg#: 9535 *GENERAL* 11/01/88 21:59:35 From: GREG BELL To: KEN DAVIDSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 9397 (USENET) Who makes the SSI263??? Thanks for the replies! Greg Bell Msg#: 9566 *GENERAL* 11/02/88 12:41:51 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: GREG BELL (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 9535 (USENET) Silicon Systems makes (made?) the SSI263. Like I said, I don't know if they're still in business. Msg#: 9597 *GENERAL* 11/03/88 07:56:38 From: BOB PADDOCK To: KEN DAVIDSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 9566 (USENET) SSI is still around, their makeing a big push into the Telecomunications market. The SSI263 is still in their lattest data book. Msg#: 9365 *GENERAL* 10/29/88 12:59:01 From: MARK BALCH To: KEN DAVIDSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 6869 (PAST MESSAGES) Thanks. I forgot about that request, because I have not called here for a long time. When I stopped, I was experiencing terrible line noise for about a week, so I gave up. Today I got my first issue of INK and decided to try again...so here I am and *without* noise! Msg#: 9369 *GENERAL* 10/29/88 16:01:54 From: MICHAEL CAVANAUGH To: ALL Subj: FAX INFO Dear Circuit Cellar, I have a hot little idea and need some assistance in locating the necessary info. I want to build a "black-box" to work with a FAX machine. I need to know all the protocols and hardware info I can lay my hands on. I need to know exactly what codes or signals a FAX machine is looking for when it sends documents. Right from the initial dialing, the initial connection to the other party, etc. I have not found any of this info as of yet. I would like to obtain a book or manual pertaining to this. I had previously sent a request to you folks asking to put together a project to build a FAX board to convert a IBM computer to a FAX machine. I would still like to do this but I have another in mind. To do both of these things it is necessary to have this info. Any and all help will be appreciated, Thank you, Michael T. Cavanaugh 3124 Butler Ave. Steger, IL 60475 (GEnie address: M.Cavanaugh1) s f Msg#: 9376 *GENERAL* 10/29/88 19:35:28 From: ANTONIO MASENZA' To: ALL Subj: MAIL FRIEND I AM ANTONIO MASENZA VIA CITTA' DI MODENA 1 40139 BOLOGNA (ITALY) ANYONE WHO WANT CONTACT ME TO EXCHANGE DB3 EXPERIENCE CAN WRITE TO ME. I SEARCH A PEN PAL FRIEND. I WORK IN C, CLIPPER AND COBOL ON PC AND DPS 7 HONEYWELL ANYONE HAS A PROGRAM THAT SUPPORT VIP 7800 PROTOCOL ON BSC ?? PLEASE WRITE ME OR PHONE TO 0039 51 461507 OR WRITE TO: ANTONIO MASENZA VIA CITTA' DI MODENA 1 40139 BOLOGNA (ITALY) Msg#: 9394 *GENERAL* 10/30/88 09:52:14 From: TIM MCDONOUGH To: ALL Subj: SENSORS MAGAZINE A while ago I ran across a magazine called "SENSORS" that was devoted to all sorts of industrial type transducers, etc. Does anyone know of a current phone number for them? (If they are still alive and well). Thanks, Tim McDonough Msg#: 9410 *GENERAL* 10/30/88 13:16:33 From: STEVE CIARCIA To: TIM MCDONOUGH (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 9394 (SENSORS MAGAZINE) I don't have a copy in front of me but Sensors is published by Carl Helmers out of Peterborough, NH. One of his companies is North American Technology (?). Perhaps its listed under that. He also published ID Systems out of the same building. --Steve Msg#: 9461 *GENERAL* 10/31/88 12:04:04 From: BOB PADDOCK To: TIM MCDONOUGH (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 9394 (SENSORS MAGAZINE) From the Sensor Masthead (What is it called that?): Sensor Magazine; Helmers Publishing, Inc. 174 Concord St. PO Box 874 Peterborough, NH 03458-0874 (603) 924-9631 Msg#: 9681 *GENERAL* 11/05/88 09:32:47 From: TIM MCDONOUGH To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 9410 (SENSORS MAGAZINE) Thanks for the info on Sensors. I'll give them a call Monday. Msg#: 9402 *GENERAL* 10/30/88 10:57:50 From: EDWARD SCHRAM To: BOB PADDOCK (Rcvd) Subj: CPM ARC Is the CPM archive utility here also? I'll look. Msg#: 9430 *GENERAL* 10/31/88 07:31:36 From: BOB PADDOCK To: EDWARD SCHRAM (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 9402 (CPM ARC) Not that I know of. It seems there is a new version of it every other day, so I've been waiting for it to stop changing so much. Msg#: 9442 *GENERAL* 10/31/88 09:01:58 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: EDWARD SCHRAM (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 9402 (CPM ARC) We've had a version of the CP/M unarc utility posted here since day one. Creating ARC files on a CP/M system is much less useful than breaking them up, so breaking them up is what most people have been working on. So far, all the utilities for creating them have been slow and bug riddled, so it's not worth trying to use them. Perhaps we'll see something good one of these days. Msg#: 9534 *GENERAL* 11/01/88 21:41:14 From: EDWARD SCHRAM To: KEN DAVIDSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 9442 (CPM ARC) Why try to break them up if you can't create them???? I guess I'll stick to crunch, uncrunch and nulu. They have yet to fail me and work as well or better than the IBM stuff. Only slower due to Z80. But ZILOG promised a Z280 sample any day now.... Msg#: 9565 *GENERAL* 11/02/88 12:40:46 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: EDWARD SCHRAM (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 9534 (CPM ARC) Because it seems even straight text files are always distributed in ARC format, so it's useful to be able to break the files apart. The reason I said that creating them wasn't important is because it's better to CRUNCH and NULU the files, just as you say. Forget the Z280. Zilog dropped the ball on it just like they have all along with the Z800. I doubt there will ever be a market for the chip even if they do get it right one of these days. Msg#: 9404 *GENERAL* 10/30/88 11:37:26 From: STEVE MAHER To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: VOICE RECOGNITION Steve, I have noticed that the latest Radio Shack catalog lists some sort of (supposedly) speaker independent voice recognition IC. I can't seem to find my catalog or I would give you the part number. Do you have any information on this part (who manufactures it, does it work, etc.) ? I work for a large defense contractor, and one thing I have noticed is that reps and marketing types just can't be accomodating enough when it comes to information on their parts, so if I knew who makes the part I'm sure I could dig up data on it. -- Steve Maher Msg#: 9409 *GENERAL* 10/30/88 12:44:27 From: STEVE CIARCIA To: STEVE MAHER (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 9404 (VOICE RECOGNITION) Sorry, I don't know who the manufacturer is but it sounds very close to a speaker-independent 8-command recognition IC that I believe a Calif company (IEE?) was marketing for electronic games. --Steve Msg#: 9417 *GENERAL* 10/30/88 19:37:53 From: STEVE MAHER To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 9409 (VOICE RECOGNITION) Thanks for the prompt response. --Steve Maher Msg#: 9458 *GENERAL* 10/31/88 10:26:21 From: BOB PADDOCK To: STEVE MAHER (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 9404 (VOICE RECOGNITION) It's Radio Shack Part # 276-1308. The part is a VCP200, made by Voice Control Products, Inc. 1140 Broadway. New York, NY 10001 (212) 683-4684. It is the seceseor to their VCP187, "Yes/No" part. The VCP200 is (was?) intended for the use with radio controled toys, ie: Go, Stop, Reverse, Turn Right, Left Turn, or the Yes/On - No/Off mode. When I talked to VCP about a part that would do just the numbers, (they said it couldn't be done at that time), their evluation board cost $500 for 30 days (they would refund the money if you return the board in reusable shape), and the single peice price (1-9 parts) was $71. (Info might be out of date by now, I talked to them in June of 1987.) Before you get to excited about this part I'd go to Radio Shack and buy one. You need a LM324 Quad-OP-AMP, and a few resistors and Caps to make a 6 KHz lowpass filter, and Inifinit Clipper (Info is in the Radio Shace data sheet.) I was disaponited with the part after reading the data sheet (I haven't build one yet so I might be proved wrong), it seems that the part has a 97%+ accuracy at recognizing the words that it does now, but there is no garantee (or rating) on it recognizing words that it does NOT know. A good source of info on Speach is the procedings from the last few Speach-Tech conferances, sponsered by the Publisher of Speech Technology. Be fore-worrned they are not cheep ( $70-$150 ), but they have info that is hard to find any place else, contact Media Demensions. 42 E. 23rd St. New York, NY 10010. (212) 533-7481. Also try to find a copy of these Intel papers: TP-6: Do's and Don'ts of Interactive Voice Dialog Design. TP-5: A speech I/O Engineering Workstation: The Necessary Tool to Evaluate and Develop an Improved Human Interface. AR-398: Putting Speech Technology To Work In the Manufacturing Environment. AR-445: Spech I/O Increasses Industrial Quality Standards and Speech and Industrial Automation. Personaly I feel that Speach Recognition lies along that path of Neural Networks, perhapes along with Extrema nosie Reducing front ends (See the thread on here about VLSI voice recognition, for info on Extrema processing.) . Msg#: 9473 *GENERAL* 10/31/88 22:11:28 From: STEVE MAHER To: BOB PADDOCK (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 9458 (VOICE RECOGNITION) Thanks for the info. I like the neural net approaches. I am presently trying to plow my way through the two volumes by Greeenberg. Not light reading. How about giving some thought to a collaborative project for CCINK on a specialized neural net processors? Msg#: 9478 *GENERAL* 11/01/88 01:05:54 From: KEN LOGSDON To: STEVE MAHER (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 9473 (VOICE RECOGNITION) Speaking of neural nets, has anyone had any success with the 200 neuron Neural Net Simulator available for downloading from this BBS? The author, in his docs, says that he leaves it up to the experimenter to find out if you can make his net learn the input pattern, and doesn't give a known-working set of parameters that will demonstrate it. I would prefer to have a set of parameters that work, and try deviations from that rather than waste my time on something that might not work at all. Anyone else on here tried it? Msg#: 9490 *GENERAL* 11/01/88 06:44:13 From: BOB PADDOCK To: STEVE MAHER (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 9473 (VOICE RECOGNITION) I'd love to, but so far I don't know enough about them, to be much help. I just placed an order for a book that looks like it is the place to start learning about them tho: "Neurocomputing: (From Add): If you're interested in neurocomputing, this 600-page book is the place to start! It collects, in onve volume, all the major articles from the start in 1943 to the latest work in 1987. All the importanct names are represented--McCu lloch, Pitts, Minsky, McClelland, Rumelhart, Von Neumann, and Papert." Aavaialbe from Microcomputer Applications, PO Box E, Suisun City, CA 94585 (707) 422-1465. $56.95 The stuff that you are working with from Grossberg, would that be his Adaptive Resonance Theory (ART)? If it is I'd like to hear more about it, and where can I find info on it? If you can lay your hands on the January 1988 "NASA Tech Breif" it is full of Neural-Network stuff. They showed (on page 35) some thing called "Electronic Neural-Network Simulator"; the interesting thing about this simulator, is that you can build it from farly common parts. The only thing that has kept me from building one, is that I havn't found any Sample-and-Hold circuits for a resonable price (this circuit uses 32 of these suckers, so any thing over about $2 is to much, any one have any ideas?). Msg#: 9492 *GENERAL* 11/01/88 06:59:13 From: BOB PADDOCK To: STEVE MAHER (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 9473 (VOICE RECOGNITION) I just relized you were talking about Greenberg, and I was talking about Grossberg. I beleive Grossberg is out of Boston University; tell me about Greenberg? Msg#: 9538 *GENERAL* 11/01/88 22:20:09 From: STEVE MAHER To: BOB PADDOCK (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 9492 (VOICE RECOGNITION) My mistake, you had the correct name, I had the wrong one. Msg#: 9547 *GENERAL* 11/02/88 06:31:49 From: BOB PADDOCK To: STEVE MAHER (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 9538 (VOICE RECOGNITION) You mean their is an other Me around? The people here at work would cringe at that thought..... Msg#: 9422 *GENERAL* 10/31/88 01:27:44 From: JEFF HENSHAW To: GARY LEAR (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 9380 (MOTOROLA BBS) 3733 is correct, thanks. I wonder if Moto knows theirhandout sheet is wrong? Jeff Msg#: 9424 *GENERAL* 10/31/88 02:44:23 From: GARY LEAR To: JEFF HENSHAW Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 9422 (MOTOROLA BBS) I received the number directly from my Motorola app engineer. Motorola was kind enough to provide me with a development board for a robotics project I am working on for the Boston Museum of Science. The board was originally available to schools (MC68HC11) but it is now on the market for around $500. I have several projects in mind for the HC11. Do you think anyone would be interested in an article or two on this part? --Gary Msg#: 9431 *GENERAL* 10/31/88 07:40:32 From: BOB PADDOCK To: JEFF HENSHAW Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 9422 (MOTOROLA BBS) Motoroal has (or had?) two different BBS, one was "Marketing" the other was the CPU division (I don't rember what they called it). The board with the interesting stuff on it is (512) 440 FREE (3733). Msg#: 9479 *GENERAL* 11/01/88 01:08:34 From: KEN LOGSDON To: GARY LEAR (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 9424 (MOTOROLA BBS) I know that I would be interested in what you have to say, I have been looking at the HC11 quite a bit myself lately, for myself and for some clients of mine. I think that the versions including the EEPROM are especially handy. Msg#: 9488 *GENERAL* 11/01/88 04:37:59 From: GARY LEAR To: KEN LOGSDON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 9479 (MOTOROLA BBS) Ken, this is my second attempt to reply to your reply. Either my system or the host broke my connection near the end of a nice long 20 line response. I will have to learn not to be so wordy! Unfortunately it is getting late and I don't have time to recreate my message just now, but what kind of projects are you working on? My most interesting one (electronic compass) is a soon to be commercial product (we hope!) and I can't discuss it. Have you seen TI's TMS370? Nice chip, but I like the HC11 better for most things. Give me some suggestions (anyone else feel free to jump in) on what sort of projects you would like to see. --Regards, Gary Msg#: 9531 *GENERAL* 11/01/88 18:51:50 From: KEN LOGSDON To: GARY LEAR (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 9488 (MOTOROLA BBS) I'm working on security system applications, primarily. Things like units that can automatically dial a central station when it is triggered by fire, panic, medical, or other types of emergency, and transmit the account number, emergency code, etc. among other bells and whistles. Also been involved in controllers for acoustic discriminators and such. Just about any application would interest me. In the 21 years of being involved in electronics, over fields as diverse as telecommunications, broadcasting, security, industrial controls, etc., I find it all interesting. Msg#: 9545 *GENERAL* 11/02/88 02:51:43 From: GARY LEAR To: KEN LOGSDON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 9531 (MOTOROLA BBS) I have also worked on security and fire systems (I once worked for Douglas Randall, the alarm division of Walter Kidde) but Steve and company seem to cover that topic like a blanket (although I could discuss some of my sensor ideas, hmmm...). I may have mentioned the robotics work that I have been doing and their still appears to be plenty of interest in that area. The primary notion that caused me to originally mention it is I have been working on some automated test equipment for my lab at home. Specifically, a function generator, arbitrary waveform generator, DMM, frequency and period meter, programmable power supply, etc. These are independently operable but they also contain a serial link to the computer. I appreciate your wide open attitude on topics but I can't seem to make up my mind on which, if any, of these ideas would be of value. Can you give me *any* additional suggestions? Thanks, Gary Msg#: 9645 *GENERAL* 11/04/88 14:25:36 From: KEN LOGSDON To: GARY LEAR (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 9545 (MOTOROLA BBS) Gary, Sounds like you're trying to mimic Hewlett-Packard with their IEEE-488 instrumentation bus, only using RS232. If you could be more specific as to what you might need help with, I would me more than glad to give you any suggestion that comes to mind. Msg#: 9655 *GENERAL* 11/04/88 23:53:13 From: GARY LEAR To: KEN LOGSDON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 9645 (MOTOROLA BBS) Ken, I am really trying to build a high speed serial bus (RS-485) with multi-point capability. I have found the HPIB to be expensive to implement in a home environment. Running out of time, please send another message and we will continue this. Thanks. --Gary ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Msg#: 9476 *GENERAL* 11-01-88 00:47:25 From: KEN LOGSDON To: MARK LAMPKIN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 9255 (MOTOROLA MC68705 CHIP) As I mentioned, I like them myself; they are very easy to use, and Motorola gives away the cross assemblers for them (at least they used to) and if you were involved in any kind of R&D, they would even provide a PC board that you could stuff to make a programming module for them! Can't understand why you don't see more articles in the various hobbyist mags about them, by comparison, the Intel 804x and 805x are cumbersome (although more powerful in certain respects) to use. Msg#: 9674 *GENERAL* 11-05-88 06:54:52 From: MARK LAMPKIN To: KEN LOGSDON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 9476 (MOTOROLA MC68705 CHIP) Ken...From a comercial point of view,Motorola has never really seen the power of the "Hacker" as am important source of revenues,both directly or indirectly.....This may be in the process of chage,though,as Mot. is running a BBS that has tons of software available for the downloading.I would like to see some project using the 6805 chips myself....Mark Msg#: 9653 *GENERAL* 11-04-88 23:35:11 From: ANDREAS DESSOFF To: NEIL CHERRY (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 9468 (MOTOROLA MC68705 CHIP) Sounds like just what I need - thanks - Andy. Msg#: 9477 *GENERAL* 11-01-88 00:53:09 From: KEN LOGSDON To: ED NISLEY (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 9271 (8031 DISASSEMBLER) Speaking of Intel microcontroller disassemblers, a company called Monitronics, Inc., 800 W. Rock Creek Rd., Norman, OK 73069, has code tracking disassemblers (meaning that they don't accidentally disassemble data areas) for $149.95. Their number is (405) 364-0024. Msg#: 9478 *GENERAL* 11-01-88 01:05:54 From: KEN LOGSDON To: STEVE MAHER (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 9473 (VOICE RECOGNITION) Speaking of neural nets, has anyone had any success with the 200 neuron Neural Net Simulator available for downloading from this BBS? The author, in his docs, says that he leaves it up to the experimenter to find out if you can make his net learn the input pattern, and doesn't give a known-working set of parameters that will demonstrate it. I would prefer to have a set of parameters that work, and try deviations from that rather than waste my time on something that might not work at all. Anyone else on here tried it? Msg#: 9490 *GENERAL* 11-01-88 06:44:13 From: BOB PADDOCK To: STEVE MAHER (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 9473 (VOICE RECOGNITION) I'd love to, but so far I don't know enough about them, to be much help. I just placed an order for a book that looks like it is the place to start learning about them tho: "Neurocomputing: (From Add): If you're interested in neurocomputing, this 600-page book is the place to start! It collects, in onve volume, all the major articles from the start in 1943 to the latest work in 1987. All the importanct names are represented--McCu lloch, Pitts, Minsky, McClelland, Rumelhart, Von Neumann, and Papert." Aavaialbe from Microcomputer Applications, PO Box E, Suisun City, CA 94585 (707) 422-1465. $56.95 The stuff that you are working with from Grossberg, would that be his Adaptive Resonance Theory (ART)? If it is I'd like to hear more about it, and where can I find info on it? If you can lay your hands on the January 1988 "NASA Tech Breif" it is full of Neural-Network stuff. They showed (on page 35) some thing called "Electronic Neural-Network Simulator"; the interesting thing about this simulator, is that you can build it from farly common parts. The only thing that has kept me from building one, is that I havn't found any Sample-and-Hold circuits for a resonable price (this circuit uses 32 of these suckers, so any thing over about $2 is to much, any one have any ideas?). Msg#: 9492 *GENERAL* 11-01-88 06:59:13 From: BOB PADDOCK To: STEVE MAHER (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 9473 (VOICE RECOGNITION) I just relized you were talking about Greenberg, and I was talking about Grossberg. I beleive Grossberg is out of Boston University; tell me about Greenberg? Msg#: 9538 *GENERAL* 11-01-88 22:20:09 From: STEVE MAHER To: BOB PADDOCK (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 9492 (VOICE RECOGNITION) My mistake, you had the correct name, I had the wrong one. Msg#: 9547 *GENERAL* 11-02-88 06:31:49 From: BOB PADDOCK To: STEVE MAHER (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 9538 (VOICE RECOGNITION) You mean their is an other Me around? The people here at work would cringe at that thought..... Msg#: 9479 *GENERAL* 11-01-88 01:08:34 From: KEN LOGSDON To: GARY LEAR (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 9424 (MOTOROLA BBS) I know that I would be interested in what you have to say, I have been looking at the HC11 quite a bit myself lately, for myself and for some clients of mine. I think that the versions including the EEPROM are especially handy. Msg#: 9488 *GENERAL* 11-01-88 04:37:59 From: GARY LEAR To: KEN LOGSDON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 9479 (MOTOROLA BBS) Ken, this is my second attempt to reply to your reply. Either my system or the host broke my connection near the end of a nice long 20 line response. I will have to learn not to be so wordy! Unfortunately it is getting late and I don't have time to recreate my message just now, but what kind of projects are you working on? My most interesting one (electronic compass) is a soon to be commercial product (we hope!) and I can't discuss it. Have you seen TI's TMS370? Nice chip, but I like the HC11 better for most things. Give me some suggestions (anyone else feel free to jump in) on what sort of projects you would like to see. --Regards, Gary Msg#: 9531 *GENERAL* 11-01-88 18:51:50 From: KEN LOGSDON To: GARY LEAR (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 9488 (MOTOROLA BBS) I'm working on security system applications, primarily. Things like units that can automatically dial a central station when it is triggered by fire, panic, medical, or other types of emergency, and transmit the account number, emergency code, etc. among other bells and whistles. Also been involved in controllers for acoustic discriminators and such. Just about any application would interest me. In the 21 years of being involved in electronics, over fields as diverse as telecommunications, broadcasting, security, industrial controls, etc., I find it all interesting. Msg#: 9545 *GENERAL* 11-02-88 02:51:43 From: GARY LEAR To: KEN LOGSDON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 9531 (MOTOROLA BBS) I have also worked on security and fire systems (I once worked for Douglas Randall, the alarm division of Walter Kidde) but Steve and company seem to cover that topic like a blanket (although I could discuss some of my sensor ideas, hmmm...). I may have mentioned the robotics work that I have been doing and their still appears to be plenty of interest in that area. The primary notion that caused me to originally mention it is I have been working on some automated test equipment for my lab at home. Specifically, a function generator, arbitrary waveform generator, DMM, frequency and period meter, programmable power supply, etc. These are independently operable but they also contain a serial link to the computer. I appreciate your wide open attitude on topics but I can't seem to make up my mind on which, if any, of these ideas would be of value. Can you give me *any* additional suggestions? Thanks, Gary Msg#: 9645 *GENERAL* 11-04-88 14:25:36 From: KEN LOGSDON To: GARY LEAR (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 9545 (MOTOROLA BBS) Gary, Sounds like you're trying to mimic Hewlett-Packard with their IEEE-488 instrumentation bus, only using RS232. If you could be more specific as to what you might need help with, I would me more than glad to give you any suggestion that comes to mind. Msg#: 9655 *GENERAL* 11-04-88 23:53:13 From: GARY LEAR To: KEN LOGSDON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 9645 (MOTOROLA BBS) Ken, I am really trying to build a high speed serial bus (RS-485) with multi-point capability. I have found the HPIB to be expensive to implement in a home environment. Running out of time, please send another message and we will continue this. Thanks. --Gary Msg#:13076 *GENERAL* 01-20-89 20:16:33 From: JEFF HENSHAW To: GARY LEAR Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 9424 (MOTOROLA BBS) Several months later, I'm back... Yes, I think this would be a good article. CCINK seems to focus on Intel and Zilog parts, Moto would be an excellent addition. Jeff Msg#:13095 *GENERAL* 01-21-89 10:15:43 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: JEFF HENSHAW Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 13076 (MOTOROLA BBS) I don't understand how you can say INK covers mostly Intel and Zilog with no Motorola. There's been virtually nothing using Zilog parts so far and the Intel articles have consisted of a few 8031/52 articles and some IBM PC support software. The entire weather series is based on a 68000 and issues 6 and 7 have a data logger based on a 6809. Plus I've purposely tried to cover as much Motorola as possible in my ConnecTime message threads to try to eliminate such statements. We are continuously looking for articles based on all processors and would gladly publish more Motorola stuff if it was submitted (and met certain editorial criteria). But it's not fair to say there's been no Motorola coverage so far. Msg#: 9480 *GENERAL* 11-01-88 01:42:00 From: ALLAN LONG To: JOHN COOK (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 7715 (PRACTICAL JOKES) I must admit that I never thought of that! Sanity maintenance indeed. I dont really want to leave the earthly plane that fast but it does leave sort of a graphic mental picture doesnt it. Msg#: 9484 *GENERAL* 11-01-88 03:56:58 From: JIM NELSON To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 9451 (RF SWITCH/HOME CONTROL SYSTEM) My name's emblazoned on the pcbs in your Component Coordinator, Steve. I was the chief electronic engineer on that project at Video Interface Products. There were only two electronic design engineers including me, but that's just an indication of how hard we worked. It's a mix of high and low tech, especially in the mechanical department, where the technology ranges from photochemical machining to crazy glue. It switches 3 input RF channels ( 8,9,10) by six output RF channels (1..6) and seven input video and stereo audio channels by eight output channels. RF input channels 9 and 10 use Omron RF relays flat to about 700 MHz; diode switches are used on the other RF input column and to switch the RF modulated baseband audio/video source into RF outputs 1 and 6. By the way, as a Component Coordinator buyer, you're in the company of Ford Aerospace (who bought forty) and Burt Reynolds, who bought one. We sold several thousand of those, but Video Interface folded last year. Suddenly I don't feel like such an unknown quantity around here. Msg#: 9510 *GENERAL* 11-01-88 10:30:50 From: STEVE CIARCIA To: JIM NELSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 9484 (RF SWITCH/HOME CONTROL SYSTEM) Well, I'll be. My Component Coordinator (I agree that it is a mix of sophistication and kludge) fits neatly in to my Nakamichi A/V system. While I designed my own AV mux, the CC was packaged more appropriately for my needs at the time. I don't use any of the RF switches and only switch audio and direct video. I remember talking to the people at video Interface Products and they weren't very nice. They approached sales as if they were doing me a favor selling it to me. Good thing it worked. I sure wouldn't have wanted to deal with those turkeys for service. What were the details of their demise? Finally, since you were the designer, perhaps you might have a schematic that I could have (or one that I can copy and return to you) just in case this thing ever bites the big one. With all the lightning problems I've had, I've been lucky so far. --Steve PS. How do you sell several thousand and go out of business? Msg#: 9551 *GENERAL* 11-02-88 08:01:49 From: JIM NELSON To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 9510 (RF SWITCH/HOME CONTROL SYSTEM) From your comments about the sales people you talked with, it sounds like you talked to Pat: bitch goddess, company manager, and girlfriend of the owner. It's interesting, and typical, that you don't use the RF section at all. The first version of the CC ( named the FromTo) was a 10 x 8 RF only switch. Although it won a design engineering award at the 1983 June CES ( for a photo, see Radio & Electronics Sept. 1983 p. 50) the RF only switcher never reached production; the package and the name were changed. The RF matrix in the model you have was the most expensive subset of the CC's production cost. If you've opened it up, you probably noticed that the RF outputs are connected to six discrete pcbs. Each of those output channel pcbs contains a photochemically machined RF shield and a pair of equally pricey Omron G4Y RF (104 dB isolation @ 250 MHz) relays. Most people bought it for the audio/video matrix. It was a price/performance steal. The unit was designed to fit the whim of the Video Interface's owner; no amount of reasoning could convince him to introduce an A/V only machine or a simpler machine because it violated his "inner image" of the market. Only toward the end of V.I.P.'s corporate life did they begin creatively exploiting its potential by doing things like selling it with BNC jacks - and cranking up the price. Less than ten units sold out of the entire production of about 2000 units were returned for repair. That's why you've never had problems. In fact, I guess I am why you've never had problems with that unit. I'll be back later with the company story. It's a morality play. BTW, getting the schematics to you is no problem. Regards, Jim Nelson Msg#: 9560 *GENERAL* 11-02-88 10:56:05 From: STEVE CIARCIA To: JIM NELSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 9551 (RF SWITCH/HOME CONTROL SYSTEM) Thanks, Jim. I'd love to hear more. BTW, I did open it and it did seem to have a lot of trash in it. My only complaint is that the matrix LED display is much too dim but I didn't want to try goosing it because it looked like a pretty small transformer (don't need any fires in the entertainment room). BTW, was this thing ever FCC tested :-) --Steve Msg#: 9590 *GENERAL* 11-03-88 04:11:36 From: JIM NELSON To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 9560 (RF SWITCH/HOME CONTROL SYSTEM) That Signal transformer ran cool as a refrigerated wombat, Steve. It had lots of headroom. In the Component Coordinator, CMOS chips outnumber the others on the boards 28 to 27, so the system as a whole runs pretty cool too. Of course it may just run cool because we were able to force most of the energy to be dissipated as EMI. |-) The LEDs are arranged in a time division multiplexed 8 x 16 matrix. Each LED is pulsed at 40 mA with a duty cycle variable from about 4 through 12% . I used udn2983 darlington packs driven by a 1/8 decoder to source current to the eight scanned columns of 16 LEDs. We matched LED brightness by using DS8859 latched programmable constant current sinks tied to the cathodes of the 16 bit addressed LEDs in each column. There is nothing that can be easily done to increase the brightness of the display; there are no resistors to change. I'll need your address to send you the schematics. Regards, Jim Msg#: 9608 *GENERAL* 11-03-88 09:26:42 From: STEVE CIARCIA To: JIM NELSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 9590 (RF SWITCH/HOME CONTROL SYSTEM) My address is the same as CC INK Journal, 4 Park St, Suite 20, Vernon, Ct 06066. I'd love a schematic. BTW, was the Component Coordinator FCC tested (I hesitate trying to lift mine to look for a label)? --Steve Msg#: 9796 *GENERAL* 11-08-88 07:46:07 From: JIM NELSON To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 9608 (RF SWITCH/HOME CONTROL SYSTEM) The Component Coordinator was tested for FCC compliance at Detroit Testing Laboratories. The unit radiated like heck. That didn't stop Video Interface's owner from selling it, and the FCC never nailed him. The primary problem was the large LED matrix, and the large opening in the cabinet through which it was made visible - a real waste of an expensive aluminum cabinet, and a typical packaging decision. Msg#: 9491 *GENERAL* 11-01-88 06:53:06 From: BOB PADDOCK To: KEN DAVIDSON (Rcvd) Subj: ALL NEW FILES? Is there any way to show all new files that have been uploaded sence the last call, in one shot (like the way the All message section works) insted of looking in each indvidual section? I relize that you must move each file, to a public access point, but it would be nice to know when I new file showed up there. Msg#: 9503 *GENERAL* 11-01-88 09:04:06 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: BOB PADDOCK (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 9491 (ALL NEW FILES?) That's why I have a separate area for new uploads. Unfortunately, there isn't any way to key on new files that have been uploaded since your last call. Also, the files are in three separate subareas. The new version of TBBS has all new support for files, so maybe there is something along the lines of what you're looking for. We have the new version on order. It should be here soon. Msg#: 9496 *GENERAL* 11-01-88 08:44:57 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: MIKE DEPAULO Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 9472 (DCACHE.COM (PC MAG. OCT-88)) This is the wrong place to ask. I'd say contact PC Magazine. Someone uploaded the program and it looked OK, so I made it available in the public area. That's the limit to my involvement with it. Msg#: 9499 *GENERAL* 11-01-88 08:51:15 From: FOSTER SCHUCKER To: ALL Subj: ANSI.SYS Someone out there was looking for a way to make their CP/M system understand the ANSI.SYS cursor control sequences. I can't seem to find the orginal message. Whoever you are please leave a note here and I'll get back to you. Thanks! Msg#: 9514 *GENERAL* 11-01-88 12:11:52 From: DOUGLAS MACE To: JASON FARQUE' (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 9268 (8051/31 - Z8XXX) Jason, Yes I would be interested in supporting a BBS with specifics on these particular chips. I also do quite a bet of embedded systems work. Looking forward to you going online. Doug C. Mace,Reading, PA Msg#: 9540 *GENERAL* 11-01-88 23:11:08 From: TOM ARNOLD To: JASON FARQUE' (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 9268 (8051/31 - Z8XXX) I'm calling here specifically for Z8 support. I would certainly call a board which supports my pet chip. I am hoping to write PD software for it (I have source code for a C-- compiler which should be a piece of cake to cross-recode) and will upload come such time as it becomes reality. I have a friend here in Chicago (Eric Bohlman; calls here too) who does 8051 embedment; seems like a prospect for you. Msg#: 9571 *GENERAL* 11-02-88 13:12:26 From: JASON FARQUE' To: TOM ARNOLD (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 9540 (8051/31 - Z8XXX) . Tom, . . Your C-- compiler for Z8 sounds like quite a little project. No pun intended. Which Z8 chip are you using; Z8671 or Romless? Romless I would suspect. You're not writing a C compiler (interpreter?) in Tiny BASIC are you? Thanks for you input, and I look forward to seeing you on my board in the future. I'll leave you a message as to when to look for it... . . Msg#: 9619 *GENERAL* 11-03-88 15:30:05 From: JEFF LEGG To: JASON FARQUE' (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 9268 (8051/31 - Z8XXX) Jason: I would use your bulletin board often. I have a hard time locating routines etc... for Micro controllers. Jeff Legg Msg#: 9628 *GENERAL* 11-03-88 21:26:28 From: JASON FARQUE' To: JEFF LEGG (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 9619 (8051/31 - Z8XXX) . Jeff, . . Thanks for the reply... What kind of business/hobby are you in that you need the support? And, do you think you'd be able to find OTHER people to call as well? . . Jason . . Msg#:10020 *GENERAL* 11-13-88 12:18:14 From: KEITH TUCHOLSKI To: JASON FARQUE' (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 9628 (8051/31 - Z8XXX) JASON - I AM VERY INTRESTED IN YOUR BOARD. I AM WORKINF ON A MOTION CONTROL SUBSYSTEM W/ EMBEDDED CONTROLLERS. YOUR BOARD WOULD BE AN EXCELLANT DISSCUSION AREA. HOPE IT BECOMES REALITY. KEITH Msg#:10213 *GENERAL* 11-19-88 13:53:23 From: JEFF LEGG To: JASON FARQUE' (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 9628 (8051/31 - Z8XXX) Jason, I work with the University of Florida Physics department in the Electronics shop. We develope a lot of equipment for use in research. I am in the process of building a cheap micro controller development system to aid in our project designs. Our first project will be a motor/ small process control. I would like to have access to basic routines (save me having to write them). There are a few fellows around here who would be interested in controller projects and maybe some over in the EE college. Anyway, I think it is a gread idea as more of us learn the value of the controller. Talk to you later, Jeff Legg Msg#:10253 *GENERAL* 11-20-88 19:27:37 From: JASON FARQUE' To: JEFF LEGG (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 10213 (8051/31 - Z8XXX) . Jeff, . . Thanks for your interest in my upcoming bulletin board system. I've received a good response to the idea, and I'm sure that it's going to be a reality. I'm location in Tulsa, Oklahoma, which is centrally located in the United States. This is a real benefit to a National bulletin board. . . I've written motor control code in Tiny BASIC and assembly on the Z8 chipset. Sounds like you guys are having fun down in Florida... Let me know if I can be of any assistance before my board goes up. I call here about two or three times a week. . . . Jason Farque' . . . Msg#:10323 *GENERAL* 11-22-88 11:02:56 From: JEFF LEGG To: JASON FARQUE' (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 10253 (8051/31 - Z8XXX) Jason, Since you mentioned being of help. I have a question you may be able to help me with. My cheap devolopment system consists of a monitor program in PROM and a Ram area. The monitor prgm allows me to download software to the RAM area and then run it, dump registers, dump memory, etc... My problem is that I am unable to get the int0 or the the int1 to work. I have a jump to the debug routine at .org h'0003. I set P3.2, clr TCON.0, clr TCON.1, set IE.0 and IE.7. Then I execute the interrupt by clr P3.2 or by set TCON.1. All I get is a linefeed to the serial port. It really has me puzzled as I am using the RX/TX interrupt and timer interrupts successfully. Any idea you have would be greatly appreciated. I have worked on it for a long time and can not isolate the problem. Thanks, J Legg Msg#:10392 *GENERAL* 11-24-88 07:49:20 From: GARY LEAR To: JEFF LEGG (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 10323 (8051/31 - Z8XXX) Jeff, although I do not have an answer for your current problem I thought I would send a brief message. Motorola sells a *very* inexpensive ($250) development board to universities for their MC68HC11 microcontroller family. This board allows in-circuit emulation and is quite complete for the price (it costs $500 retail). I have had one of these boards for more than a year and I am very satisfied with it. You can obtain a free cross assembler for the IBM PC from Motorola's FREEWARE line (check this BBS for the phone number). Let me know if you would like any more info. I have used the HC11 for a while now in various projects (robot, temperature controller, several commercial designs) and I am fairly pleased with it. Regards, Gary. Msg#:10746 *GENERAL* 11-30-88 23:16:27 From: JASON FARQUE' To: JEFF LEGG (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 10323 (8051/31 - Z8XXX) Jeff, . . . I'm sorry that it's taken me this long to reply to your message regarding help on the 8031/51 problem that you're having (had?), but I've been swamped at work. (I know, excuses, excuses...) But I finally did manage to fire up my emulator on the problem. Here's what my emulator said: No problem. . I have noticed in the past that when running a monitor, sometimes things just don't seem to work like you expect them to.. (Don't you just HATE that?) Here is the code that I wrote to test out your problem... I followed the general outline of the code that you described in your message, and embellished it where I had to. I want to mention that you must CLR P3.2 before you finish your interrupt routine, otherwise your program will RETI and immediately jump to another interrupt service. (Not that *I* forgot. Ahem...) I'm fortunate enough to have a full blown emulator, so I can watch my code execute. . My phone number is 918-258-6068 if you have any questions, or if you'd like to call and laugh at my code right in my ear... Control Devices, Incorporated is the company name. . . . DEFSEG MY_CODE, ABSOLUTE . SEG MY_CODE . . ORG 0000H ;ORG FOR INTITIAL JUMP . SJMP REAL_CODE . . ORG 0003H ;INT NUMBER 0 . SJMP INT_CODE ;CALL TO INT 0 . . ORG 0008H ;START OF MAIN PROGRAM .REAL_CODE: SETB P3.2 ;INT0 LINE IN . CLR TCON.0 ;INTO TYPE CONTROL BIT . CLR TCON.1 ; . SETB IE.0 ;ENABLE EXTERNAL INT0 . SETB IE.7 ;ENABLE ALL INTERRUPTS . . CLR P3.2 ;CAUSE INTERRUPT . SETB TCON.1 ;CAUSE INTERRUPT . SJMP REAL_CODE ;START OVER . .INT_CODE: PUSH ACC ;DUMMY INTERRUPT ROUTINE . MOV ACC,#0FFH ; . POP ACC ; . SETB P3.2 ; . RETI ; . . END . . . Good luck, and let me know if you still have problems with it, Jeff. . . . Jason.. . . Msg#: 9520 *GENERAL* 11-01-88 12:56:55 From: VINNY RUSSELLO To: ALL USERS Subj: HARD DISK DRIVE/TERMS FOR SALE for sale ST-225 half height disk drive error free still sealed in plastic (new haven area) $150.00. Heathkit H-25 ascii terminal, emulates ANSI ZDS and VT-52 modes $225.00 NEC 7710 letter quality printer with dual bin sheet feeder $250.00 Visual 50 ascii terminal $225.00 (emulates 4 terms) TI Silent 700 works but has 1 key bad (can be fixed) $100.00 + and - 12 volt power supply @ 2.1 amp $20.00 + 5 volt power supply @ 10 amps $20.00 Msg#: 9523 *GENERAL* 11-01-88 13:45:10 From: GREG ROTHAUSER To: ALL Subj: PC PURSUIT O.K, I seem to have some problemos. I am EXTREMELY intrested in Pc Pursuit. However, I called Telenet Info, and found that there is no local node to Storrs, Ct. How, if at all, can I use TELENET then. And no, I don't plan on calling long-distace for it, that is what I'm trying to avoid. HELP! he problem is that there are a number of places in Ct. I want to call, but the pone bill is HUGE! Can anyone offer a suggestion? Msg#: 9555 *GENERAL* 11-02-88 09:21:08 From: CURT FRANKLIN To: GREG ROTHAUSER (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 9523 (PC PURSUIT) Your message doesn't say whether you're in Connecticut or not. This BBS is reached from the Hartford out-dial, and much of civilised CT can be reached the same way. If you're in Connecticut (say, in Storrs), and want to reach the Hartford node through a local call, SNET has some plans to help you out. Curt Franklin Msg#: 9569 *GENERAL* 11-02-88 12:58:52 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: GREG ROTHAUSER (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 9523 (PC PURSUIT) If there is no node local to Storrs, then you either have to make a toll call to a Hartford node, or move your residence closer to civilization. Calling long distance 30 miles is a bit cheaper than calling long distance 2000 miles, so you'd probably realize a savings over direct dial even with the call to Hartford. One thing you have to realize, though, is that the Hartford outdial will only reach BBSs local to Hartford. If you subscribe to PC Pursuit expecting to be able to reach New Haven, forget it. Since you would have to make a toll call to reach a Hartford node, then would only be able to access systems local to Hartford, PC Pursuit wouldn't be doing anything for you. If you want to call all sorts of California BBSs, then PC Pursuit might be worthwhile for you. If you're only interested in Connecticut boards, forget it. Msg#: 9615 *GENERAL* 11-03-88 14:39:24 From: GREG ROTHAUSER To: CURT FRANKLIN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 9555 (PC PURSUIT) Yes, I am in Ct. But, what do you mean when you say that SNET has options? I looked into their ConnNet, and found it rediculously priced. It would seem that I am literally up the creek. And moving residence is not an option. I am a UCONN student at Storrs. Argh. Msg#: 9640 *GENERAL* 11-04-88 10:13:29 From: CURT FRANKLIN To: GREG ROTHAUSER (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 9615 (PC PURSUIT) When we moved to CT in August, SNET gave us a number of options for ``basic service.'' One of the options let you call most of Connecticut for no additional charge. Of course, the basic rate was higher, but what the heck. I don't think that I hallucinated the conversation with their service people, but no guarantees. Good luck on trying to get your comm problems sorted out... Msg#: 9642 *GENERAL* 11-04-88 10:31:19 From: GREG ROTHAUSER To: CURT FRANKLIN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 9640 (PC PURSUIT) Thanx for the help. I'll call SNET when I get a chance. Thanx. Msg#: 9525 *GENERAL* 11-01-88 15:39:35 From: CURTIS MACKEY To: KEN DAVIDSON (Rcvd) Subj: 8052 INFO Do you know of any information such as a self study course or seminar on the INTEL 8052 family? I read the messages in CCI about the Intel series of manuals which I already have, but I need some material other than that on programming in assembler. I have programmed in assembler with the Motorola 8-bit series of processors including the 6808, 6801, and the 6809, but not with INTEL. Thanks in advance. Curtis Msg#: 9563 *GENERAL* 11-02-88 12:35:42 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: CURTIS MACKEY (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 9525 (8052 INFO) The only self-contained study courses I know of are from Heathkit. I don't know what processors they support these days, though. Once you know one processor family, though, it's not too difficult to apply what you know to other families. Anyone else have suggestions? Msg#: 9591 *GENERAL* 11-03-88 04:16:21 From: GARY LEAR To: KEN DAVIDSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 9563 (8052 INFO) I don't know of any specific texts on the 8052 but I do know that in general going from one processor to another is not difficult. However, making a transition from an accumulator oriented processor (Motorola) to a general register type (Intel) is more difficult, I did the same thing in reverse. Good luck! --Gary Msg#: 9781 *GENERAL* 11-07-88 23:20:44 From: BRUCE WEBB To: CURTIS MACKEY (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 9525 (8052 INFO) I am writing a short tutorial for the MCS-51 family (8031 mostly) to support a thing I call the Control-R subsystem. The document is about two thirds finished and I expect it to be less than forty pages. It describes the MCS-51 architecture, assembly language commands by group, special programming considerations (like interrupts), and contains some sample code. It has some sections that are limited to my implementation (like only two ports available, and two timers etc) I'd be glad to send you an advanced copy. I am also interested in "selling" the Control-R board to interested parties. The board has an 8031, address de-multiplexer, EPROM socket, and a MAX232. There are two headers, a 1 x 4 for the serial interface and a 2 x 17 for the P1 and P3 data ports (plus shielding) All you need is +5V and something you'd like to control or collect data from The boards could be cheap if I were to sell them in more than ones or twos, but I'm a softy -- if you need one (still cheaper than wire-wrap, and all ready de-bugged.) Msg#: 9807 *GENERAL* 11-08-88 16:14:13 From: RICHARD ANDREWS To: BRUCE WEBB (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 9781 (8052 INFO) . I might be interested in buying a board from you. How much are you charging? Also I would like to get my hands on a copy of your tutorial when its finished (or even before). Msg#: 9823 *GENERAL* 11-08-88 22:48:40 From: BRUCE WEBB To: RICHARD ANDREWS (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 9807 (8052 INFO) So far I am making them one at a time. It takes several hours to sensitize the board, expose, etch etc. I'd really like to farm out that work to a PC board house, but in ones and twos the minimum cost at those places will never be realized. If you will agree to give me some feedback about the projects you are working on -- and how the board performs, I'd be willing to part with one for $20 including sockets, headers, capacitors and some testing. Making them one at a time, it's hard to tell if all of the traces are intact and all connections good without plugging in all of the parts and giving it a try. The tutorial is coming along nicely now, I okhave finished all of the Architecture and language elements descriptions and am about to start the "how to use the hardware features" sections. Then there are some words about EPROMs and some sample software. I think it should take a week or perhaps a little less to finish (without polish) I plan to make the final version available as something like shareware -- with a little advertising for the Control-R (PC board) included. That way maybe I can get above the mixDnimums to have someone else make boards and give away some helpful info at the same time.x Let me know if the price for a board is of interest{_. I am working on some other parts too including a very cheap 2764 EPROM programmer attachment. Msg#: 9847 *GENERAL* 11-09-88 10:49:41 From: RICHARD ANDREWS To: BRUCE WEBB (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 9823 (8052 INFO) . Yes I would be interested, but bear in mind that most of my work goes rather slowly since it is done in my spare time. If you offer the tutorial as shareware perhaps you could arrange it so that the user will get the board as part of the registration price. When it is done would it be possible to leave a copy here so I could look at it? I would guess that you could get lots of helpful feedback from the people on this board. Msg#: 9879 *GENERAL* 11-09-88 20:48:20 From: BRUCE WEBB To: RICHARD ANDREWS (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 9847 (8052 INFO) Your idea about including the board in the registration is an intersting one. The text should be finished very soon, but I don't plan to upload the first draft. If you'd like a copy send me your address here or by mail: Bruce Webb 10125 So. Roseboro Rd. Sandy UT 84092 Msg#:10066 *GENERAL* 11-14-88 10:26:47 From: RICHARD ANDREWS To: BRUCE WEBB (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 9879 (8052 INFO) . I would love a copy. Let me know if I can reimburse you for the postage, or you could send it to me on floppy (MS-DOS). . My address is: Richard Andrews 1 Townhouse Lane, Apt. 2 Acton, MA 01720 . . My thanks in advance. . Msg#:10195 *GENERAL* 11-18-88 15:49:23 From: CURTIS MACKEY To: BRUCE WEBB (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 9781 (8052 INFO) Yes, I would be interested in receiving the information on the INTEL 8031. Please see the electronic mail for my address to send the infor- mation including price. Thank you in advance. Msg#: 9526 *GENERAL* 11-01-88 15:55:52 From: RICHARD ANDREWS To: JASON FARQUE' (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 9336 (NEW BBS) . The closest that I have come to the 8031/8051 family is a project I did about four years ago using an 8749. I have done lots of real time embedded controller stuff so maybe I give some general advice. The 8031 is a nice price/performance package and all I need is a good excuse to get back into it again. Msg#: 9528 *GENERAL* 11-01-88 17:31:33 From: IAN BAYNE To: MICHAEL HOBSON Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 9025 (C PROG.) Ok, thanks, then say I'm programming on an I dont know Apple (Which I'm DEFINITELY NOT) then I could program with literrature for an IBM right?? Ian L. Bayne Msg#: 9530 *GENERAL* 11-01-88 18:22:40 From: ART BUSSURE To: ED NISLEY (Rcvd) Subj: STEPPER MOTOR CON9RN|OL THANKS FOR THE INSIGHT ON STEPPER MOTOR CONTROL. I'M GOING TO LOOK AT SOME MICROCONTROLLERS TO DO THE JOB. THE NEC 78310 LOOKS LIKE A GOOD CANDIDATE FOR THIS. THIS WAY I COULD GO WITH EITHER STEPPERS OR SERVOS DEPENDING ON THE APPLICATION. NOW THE FUN PART; FINDING SOMEONE WHO CAN WRITE CODE FOR THE 78310. ANY SUGGESTIONS ON THIS OR ALTERNATE MICROCONTROLLERS SUITED FOR THE JOB. THANKS FOR YOUR HELP. Msg#: 9589 *GENERAL* 11-03-88 04:10:35 From: JIM NELSON To: ART BUSSURE (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 9530 (STEPPER MOTOR CON9RN|OL) Art, There are a lot of packaged stepper and servo motor controllers for the IBM; some on cards and some outboard units. What would be best for you depends on your needs: are you designing something to manufacture or are you trying to save money by building your own 2-D plotter or 3-D something? Msg#: 9592 *GENERAL* 11-03-88 04:22:59 From: GARY LEAR To: ART BUSSURE (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 9530 (STEPPER MOTOR CON9RN|OL) Art, the MC68HC11 is also a good choice for stepper motor control or servo loops (I have used several of them in a robotics project I am working on for the Boston Museum of Science). I would be willing to assist depending on what your project is and how it affects my other commitments. Please contact me with specifics if you are interested. Regards, Gary Msg#: 9602 *GENERAL* 11-03-88 08:36:00 From: ED NISLEY To: ART BUSSURE (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 9530 (STEPPER MOTOR CON9RN|OL) You've got a better notion of what you want that I do... so I'll stand back and let you figure out how to pull it all together. There are pre-programmed stepper controllers available from somebody or another; I can't find the flyer in my files, but the name SMC sounds familiar. The things are basically 8051s with a built-in controller program. They're a little expensive and not what you want if you need other functions in the code, but for what they do they're probably hard to beat. After all, you don't have to debug their code! Msg#: 9617 *GENERAL* 11-03-88 14:52:58 From: RICHARD ANDREWS To: ART BUSSURE (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 9530 (STEPPER MOTOR CON9RN|OL) . I think that yo{ are thinking of Cybernetic Microsystems. {They are located somewhere around Los Angeles, I think. Their stuff is pretty pricey, as I recall the stepper motor controllers are about $100 a pop in small quantities; the price/performance is great however. Msg#: 9638 *GENERAL* 11-04-88 09:12:23 From: JEFF BACHIOCHI To: ART BUSSURE (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 9530 (STEPPER MOTOR CON9RN|OL) . Art, . Watch for Micromint's Stepper Motor Controller Board (BCC45.) Memory mapped into the BCC_BUS, it will step four Uni/Bi Polar motors at a fixed stepping rate. Six bits of input are provided for limit switch applications. Your application program can be in BASIC or MACHINE LANGUAGE (for increased speeds). . jeff Msg#:10026 *GENERAL* 11-13-88 12:32:34 From: KEITH TUCHOLSKI To: GARY LEAR (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 9592 (STEPPER MOTOR CON9RN|OL) GARY - I AM ALSO WORKING ON A ROBOTICS SUB-SYSTEM BASED ON THE 68HC11. IS YOUR PROJECT SOMETHING THAT CAN BE DISCUSSED?? KEITH Msg#:10119 *GENERAL* 11-16-88 03:49:30 From: GARY LEAR To: KEITH TUCHOLSKI (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 10026 (STEPPER MOTOR CON9RN|OL) Keith, certainly we can discuss my project. I originally started the project for fun and later I tailored it for a museum exhibit that I got involved in (search the threads in this BBS for more details). I would like to discuss your project with you. Send me a message describing what you are doing. Thanks for your comment. Regards, Gary. Msg#: 9532 *GENERAL* 11-01-88 18:56:51 From: KEN LOGSDON To: GARY LEAR (Rcvd) Subj: ELECTRONIC COMPASS By the way, did you see the latest issue of Radio-Electronics Magazine? Seems Don Lancaster provided a basic design of just such a gizmo! Msg#: 9546 *GENERAL* 11-02-88 02:53:38 From: GARY LEAR To: KEN LOGSDON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 9532 (ELECTRONIC COMPASS) No I haven't. I will have to tell my partners about this right away! Thanks for the info. --Gary Msg#: 9646 *GENERAL* 11-04-88 14:28:21 From: KEN LOGSDON To: GARY LEAR (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 9546 (ELECTRONIC COMPASS) Seems like everyone I talk to has come up with the idea of developing an electronic compass of one form or another, ever since Hall effect devices became readily available - I've toyed with the idea myself. But unless you've got a really novel approach to doing it, I wouldn't sink too much time and money into it. Msg#: 9667 *GENERAL* 11-05-88 02:28:14 From: GARY LEAR To: KEN LOGSDON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 9646 (ELECTRONIC COMPASS) Ken, My partners and I do indeed have a novel approach, which means I can't discuss it, oh well. We hope to have a finished breadboard sometime soon. Do you have any suggestions on a manufacturer? We have several that we are talking to but it doesn't hurt to expand your search any. Regards, Gary. P.S. I hope we beat people to market with this :-} Msg#: 9738 *GENERAL* 11-07-88 01:56:52 From: KEN LOGSDON To: GARY LEAR (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 9667 (ELECTRONIC COMPASS) Gary, Well, if you already have several prospective manufacturers in mind, I doubt that I could improve on the ones already under consideration. By the way, have you filed for a patent on your approach yet? I understand that the period of time between filing and being granted letters patent these days is at least four years. And, keep in mind that a patent is only as good as your ability to defend it, and that your approach becomes public knowledge as soon as the patent is issued. Unless your approach can be reverse-engineered easily, and you can afford the legal expenses in patent litigation, it may be better to keep the concept under wraps as a trade secret. Of course, a 'secret' is only a secret if one person knows it, and you've already indicated that you have partners, alas! Msg#: 9741 *GENERAL* 11-07-88 05:00:42 From: GARY LEAR To: KEN LOGSDON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 9738 (ELECTRONIC COMPASS) Ken, improving on the current manufacturing prospects would not be a difficult task! Let me know if you have any ideas. I am unfortunately very aware of the *ridiculous* delay in the patent process (must be their new *improved* computer system :-} ) since I have filed a patent app or two at work. It is undoubtably possible to reverse engineer our approach, it is not safe to assume otherwise. My partners are primarily engineering people (not always sure that is a blessing) and the project has definitly been a joint effort. It does become quite a task to continue development when you are uncertain of ever going to market, oh well! Let me know how things are going with your projects (this is the only BBS I use and boy am I addicted !!!, great to have a fellow hardware junkie to talk to !!). Regards, Gary. Msg#: 9783 *GENERAL* 11-08-88 00:33:07 From: KEN LOGSDON To: GARY LEAR (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 9741 (ELECTRONIC COMPASS) Gary, I have several patent applications pending, myself, under a former employer. I even had one of them granted under my name, assigned to said former employer: Patent number 4,719,452, "Audio Signal Generator". Nothing spectacular, but its nice to be able to say I have one, at least. Currently, I have two major projects, one microcontroller-based, the other pure assembly level software. The microcontroller-based project is the security system remote unit that automatically dials into a central station when triggered, and burps a code out while providing listen-in and talk-back capabilities. The assembler program is a file transfer utility for copying files between PC's. It will be offered as shareware, and I hope to make it much, much better than the other programs now available that offer that function, whether commercial or shareware. I'm still in the middle of both projects, though, and it's hard to say when I'll have either one ready, primarily due to the fact that I work as a freelance PC consultant, and have a full time job in the evening as a television broadcast engineer here in Louisville. Kind of keeps me busy, don't you see. Msg#: 9791 *GENERAL* 11-08-88 04:40:47 From: GARY LEAR To: KEN LOGSDON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 9783 (ELECTRONIC COMPASS) Ken, is that Louisville Kentucky? My father is from Kentucky and I spent a portion of my youth (and my misdeeds) in that part of the country. It sounds like you have an interesting time with your life. My current projects require the services of a large development facility. Unfortunate ly, all I have is myself. A partial list: robot with navigational capability, electronic compass, lab equipment, and a book on microcontrolle r system design that I am working on. This doesn't include my normal full time job. I work on these projects in rotation as the particular mood strikes me and I sometimes do a little consulting. I am anxious to add our project to my list, communicate :-) with you soon. --Gary Msg#: 9827 *GENERAL* 11-08-88 23:48:10 From: KEN LOGSDON To: GARY LEAR (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 9791 (ELECTRONIC COMPASS) Yes, I am in Louisville, KY. Hope to talk to you by voice soon. Regards, Ken. Msg#: 9533 *GENERAL* 11-01-88 21:37:19 From: JOHN COOK To: ALL USERS Subj: COMPUTER BUS SPEED? Can someone help here? ive got a friend with a 12Mhz XT ibm clone with an 12Mhz AT accelerator card in it. it used to have a V20 in it, thats what it came with. The problem is that all the slots are filled and he wants to add on an expansion chassie. Source Electronics sells several such chassies but there's a hitch: the buss interface card for the expansion chassie runs at a max of 6Mhz. thats specified as a 6Mhz BUS speed. what we need to know is what the diffrence between CPU speed and bus speed is. From what i know about computers im guessing that they are the same but seeing as i dont know that much about computer architecture im not sure. also, does anyone know of another company that sells expansion chassies? name, address and/or phone numbers would be greatly appreciated. many thanks -jdc Msg#: 9556 *GENERAL* 11-02-88 09:27:16 From: CURT FRANKLIN To: JOHN COOK (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 9533 (COMPUTER BUS SPEED?) Don't assume that the clock speed of the CPU is the same as the bus speed. Most clones that are ``turbo,'' whether they're XT or AT class machines, use one speed for the CPU, and then wither throw in another crystal or another divider to keep the bus speed at the standard (usually slower) speed. This approach lets all the add-in boards that are designed for a particular (standard) bus speed work in the clone. There are exceptions to this, of course, but they are rare. Curt Franklin Msg#: 9574 *GENERAL* 11-02-88 17:39:54 From: MARC D'ALOISIO To: CURT FRANKLIN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 9556 (COMPUTER BUS SPEED?) You're right... If clone makers started messing with the bus speed, many option boards would have flaky problems (esp. things with memory i.e. memory expansion and video boards, some I/O boards, etc.) Msg#: 9582 *GENERAL* 11-02-88 21:29:46 From: JOHN COOK To: CURT FRANKLIN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 9556 (COMPUTER BUS SPEED?) Thanks for the help, its much appreciated! Come to think of it that makes good sense, why would anyone mess with the bus speed and risk compatability problems. thanks again! -JDC Msg#: 9639 *GENERAL* 11-04-88 09:16:11 From: JEFF BACHIOCHI To: JOHN COOK (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 9533 (COMPUTER BUS SPEED?) . John, . If I'm not mistaken, IBM's original AT bus speed was 6Mhz, but now is 8Mhz! . jeff Msg#: 9647 *GENERAL* 11-04-88 15:39:43 From: MARC D'ALOISIO To: JEFF BACHIOCHI (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 9639 (COMPUTER BUS SPEED?) You are all getting the cpu clock speed and 'bus speed' mixed up. The 6, 8 10, 4.77, etc. MHZ refers to the CPU CLOCK SPEED _not_ the bus speed of the machine. The cpu clock speed is externally controlled by a crystal and chip, the bus is controlled by separate electronics (there is a bus controller chip). The bus speed in any 'AT compatable' should be the same (incidentally, I think its referred to by timing and MIPS) where as the CPU speed will be different from maker to maker depending on what they want for their propaganda. Compatability lies primarily in the BIOS and processor type. Msg#: 9694 *GENERAL* 11-05-88 18:26:06 From: JOHN COOK To: JEFF BACHIOCHI (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 9639 (COMPUTER BUS SPEED?) Ah, now i see what you mean. But the main point is that whatever speed that IBM originally used for bus speed in the PC/XT is what all the clones use as well. OK, thats what we really wanted to know anyway. Thanks guys. -JDC Msg#: 9534 *GENERAL* 11-01-88 21:41:14 From: EDWARD SCHRAM To: KEN DAVIDSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 9442 (CPM ARC) Why try to break them up if you can't create them???? I guess I'll stick to crunch, uncrunch and nulu. They have yet to fail me and work as well or better than the IBM stuff. Only slower due to Z80. But ZILOG promised a Z280 sample any day now.... Msg#: 9565 *GENERAL* 11-02-88 12:40:46 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: EDWARD SCHRAM (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 9534 (CPM ARC) Because it seems even straight text files are always distributed in ARC format, so it's useful to be able to break the files apart. The reason I said that creating them wasn't important is because it's better to CRUNCH and NULU the files, just as you say. Forget the Z280. Zilog dropped the ball on it just like they have all along with the Z800. I doubt there will ever be a market for the chip even if they do get it right one of these days. Msg#: 9535 *GENERAL* 11-01-88 21:59:35 From: GREG BELL To: KEN DAVIDSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 9397 (USENET) Who makes the SSI263??? Thanks for the replies! Greg Bell Msg#: 9566 *GENERAL* 11-02-88 12:41:51 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: GREG BELL (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 9535 (USENET) Silicon Systems makes (made?) the SSI263. Like I said, I don't know if they're still in business. Msg#: 9597 *GENERAL* 11-03-88 07:56:38 From: BOB PADDOCK To: KEN DAVIDSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 9566 (USENET) SSI is still around, their makeing a big push into the Telecomunications market. The SSI263 is still in their lattest data book. Msg#: 9539 *GENERAL* 11-01-88 23:04:32 From: TOM ARNOLD To: PETER SANDERS Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 7563 (CROSS ASSEMBLER FOR Z8) Zilog themselves have a MS-DOS assembler for the Super8 with a Z8 only toggle on it. It came along with the ($88) Super8 development kit, and your nearest Zilog sales office should be able to help you get a copy. Msg#: 9595 *GENERAL* 11-03-88 04:35:20 From: GARY LEAR To: TOM ARNOLD (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 9539 (CROSS ASSEMBLER FOR Z8) I thought Zilog made that cross assembler public domain. Does anyone know for sure? --Gary Msg#: 9707 *GENERAL* 11-05-88 22:07:54 From: TOM ARNOLD To: GARY LEAR (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 9595 (CROSS ASSEMBLER FOR Z8) My distribution disks say Copyright 1985. If it is documented to be Public Domain I would be glad to distribute it. I need a copy of the source for their Super8 demo board monitor; I got the board after they dropped that from the package and I fried the board. Msg#: 9828 *GENERAL* 11-08-88 23:49:15 From: TOM ARNOLD To: GARY LEAR (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 9715 (CROSS ASSEMBLER FOR Z8) My local Zilog rep is a preppy playboy beter suited to selling Z280s. The Zilog rep up in Minneapolis knows the Z8, but hasn't been able to do much for me. I would certainly be thrilled to recieve the monitor source; how do we handle the transfer? Msg#: 9837 *GENERAL* 11-09-88 03:14:13 From: GARY LEAR To: TOM ARNOLD (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 9828 (CROSS ASSEMBLER FOR Z8) I can certainly sympathize with your plight of a poor Zilog rep. When I worked for DEC, Zilog thought the world had to have them or else. Unfortunately for them the answer was or else. It took years before we would even let them in the lobby again. My local rep has improved quite a bit since he first started, but he never sends the data I request. The inside sales lady is *far* better to deal with (and cuter to boot!). I have still not received the offical word on whether or not this listing is distributible (I have found the listing however). If Zilog doesn't care I would like to just mail you a xerox copy of the listing (the listing does not carry a copywright notice). I will try to get back to you in a few days. Regards, Gary. Msg#: 9543 *GENERAL* 11-02-88 01:26:40 From: SIMON SABATO To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: BASIC 52 Steve- I am building a version of your BASIC 52 controller. I have made only some minor modifications (like a MAX232, 3 8255's and only 16K RAM). I am having a problem with finding hardware data. I need a manual which tells about the hardware aspects of the chip and the programming. I especially would like to know about EEPROM usage. Anyway, the only other problem I have is finding the 11.0592 MHz crystal. Where can it be ordered, and for how much? -Simon Sabato Msg#: 9559 *GENERAL* 11-02-88 10:50:41 From: STEVE CIARCIA To: SIMON SABATO (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 9543 (BASIC 52) Micromint sells the 11.05Mhz crystal for $4.50. Regarding the 8052 hardware, you should get a copy of the Intel Imbedded controllers manual set. Perhaps Jameco or DigiKey has them. --Steve Msg#: 9544 *GENERAL* 11-02-88 02:40:02 From: JAMES SPURLIN To: ED NISLEY (Rcvd) Subj: MULTISCAN MONITORS I have a question and I will try to be brief. I can easily see how a monochrome monitor can have multiple scanning resolutions by changing the scan rate frequency. On the other hand multiscanning monitors are color monitors which, according to my understanding, have shadow masks. Shadow masks by their existence limit the opportunity for the electron beam to fall on the phosphors to a certain finite area and other predefined adjacent areas. How can a multiscanning monitor claim that it can give a more or less infinite variable scan rate to match a particular card in the system? Msg#: 9603 *GENERAL* 11-03-88 08:36:34 From: ED NISLEY To: JAMES SPURLIN Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 9544 (MULTISCAN MONITORS) You're sort of right... a color monitor's resolution can't be any better than the phospor dot pitch. But that pitch is better than you think! The usual pitches are in the range of 0.3 mm per dot triad, so you have about 85 triads per inch. To get 640 triads you need a monitor that's about 8 inches across. That's not too restrictive; actually, most monitors have more triads than they really need. The IBM EGA display has a 0.31 mm pitch across about 10 inches, so it's got about 820 triads to handle 640 pels. The trick is that a single image pel actually illuminates (slightly) more than one phosphor triad. Take a look at your screen with a magnifying glass and you'll see what I mean. Put a few Chr(250) dots on the screen and see how many triads are lit up -- that character is a single pel in the middle of the character box. (For lack of anything better you can generate those characters at the DOS prompt by holding down the Alt key and tapping 2 5 0 on the numeric pad... if you've got an IBM PC, of course). So multiscanning monitors just twiddle the ratio of triads per pel. As long as that ratio stays above unity you're in good shape. Make sense? Msg#: 9550 *GENERAL* 11-02-88 07:35:14 From: JOHN APPLEYARD To: ALL Subj: FOR SALE FOR SALE > PC Limited 286-8 Motherboard Manufactured June, 1987 1Mb Ram installed 80287-6 Math Coprocessor installed Case and Power Supply also available PRICE: BEST REASONABLE OFFER Call (201)-575-6570 during the day or leave message here. John Appleyard Msg#: 9553 *GENERAL* 11-02-88 08:25:16 From: MICHAEL POLAK To: ALL Subj: SUNRISE/SUNSET Someone has loaded a program that will determine the times of sunrise and sunset based on a longitude and latitude. Can someone explain the algorithm used is this program? I would like to incorporate something like this in a project I'm working on. Thanks. Msg#: 9570 *GENERAL* 11-02-88 13:07:34 From: FOSTER SCHUCKER To: ALL Subj: LOGO FOR CP/M I am looking for a CP/M version of LOGO. At one time there was a version called TLC-LOGO, made for the Kaypro. If you have any idea where I can get a CP/M version (or one that would move to a Z80 without man years of work) please leave me a note. Thanks! Msg#: 9576 *GENERAL* 11-02-88 18:30:27 From: LUC DE MEYER To: BARRY MOSS (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO 8787 (BELL 202 MODEM) Hi Barry, I have not seen any reply on the BBS on your 202 modem question so I am sending you this -belated due to circumstances- message. I have perhaps some more info for you about soft turn off on Bell 202 type modems. This tone is sent when RTS/ is turned off at the end of the message. Transients may occur if you turn the loud tone off like that which may cause spurious space signals to be received by the remote modem. Therefore, the sending modem transmits a soft carrier frequency for about 24 milliseconds during soft turn off after RTS/ is turned off. This results in a steady MARK at the receiving modem RecData line. It is obvious that a soft MARK tone must be sent, because that is the whole idea: you do not want the receiving modem to receive a SPACE which might be interpreted as data. I hope this is more or less what you were looking for. I can also assist you with testing any modems. I can send and receive in bell 103, V21 and V22 modes. We would have to syncronise though as I do not run any BBS yet. But ... I am living in the Netherlands... so you may want to test locally before jumping the Atlantic. Luc De Meyer Msg#: 9808 *GENERAL* 11-08-88 16:48:06 From: BARRY MOSS To: LUC DE MEYER (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 9576 (REPLY TO 8787 (BELL 202 MODEM)) Thanks for the info on Bell 202. My company recently purchased a General Datacomm 202S/T modem so I've had a chance now to check out the signals on an oscilloscope. I have been looking at two different modem ICs, the 7911 from AMD and a new chip, tentatively called the K302 from Silicon Systems. The SSI chip doesn't have the soft carrier turn off option, but it has a number of other useful features (such as Bell 212). However, I think I have convinced SSI to add the soft turn off carrier before producing the chip. I suspect my next design project will be a v.22, v.21 (and possibly v.23) internal modem for a point of sale terminal. However, this will be a few months down the road. I would certainly be fun to test the performance of my design with a trans-Atlantic call, but I'm not sure if my manager will agree! Thanks for the offer though; I'll be sure to keep it in mind. Msg#: 9581 *GENERAL* 11-02-88 21:27:15 From: KEN HOWELL To: MARK LAMPKIN (Rcvd) Subj: 1802 Mark -- Thanks for the tip about Jameco and their closeout sale on the 1802. I was expecting to pay 2.95 apiece for the 10 I had ordered, but when they showed up, the bill said 1.98 each! Quite a bargain. I had asked for a data sheet, but none was sent. I guess I'll need to track down a book (probably Sams or some Sybex or Blacksburg Group) on the 1802. I do need the pinouts and electrical characteristics, though. An suggestions on where to look? --Ken. Msg#: 9598 *GENERAL* 11-03-88 08:04:27 From: BOB PADDOCK To: KEN HOWELL (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 9581 (1802) For programing info on the 1802 you want a copy of "Programmer's Guide To The 1802 (With An Assembler For Your Machine)" by Tom Swan; published by Hayden Book Company Inc, Rochelle Park, New Jersey. Copyright 1981. For hardware designe info you need: RCA Solid State's (Or GE, or Intersil/GE/RC A [What ever they are calling them self today]) "CMOS Microprocessors, Memories and Peripherals". Be forewarned tho that a lot of the 18xx family parts have been discontinue d, so before designing with any 18xx part, if you need a large qunity make sure that they are still being made. The 1802 is, and as far as I know so is the 1805A. Msg#: 9599 *GENERAL* 11-03-88 08:07:33 From: BOB PADDOCK To: KEN HOWELL (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 9581 (1802) I forgot to say, I got my 1802 Programers Guide from Daltons Book store. Msg#: 9627 *GENERAL* 11-03-88 20:49:34 From: KEN HOWELL To: BOB PADDOCK (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 9598 (1802) Bob -- Thanks for the information. You'll be interested to know, no doubt, that Mouser Electronics still advertises most of the 180x support chips. Not bad priced, either. --Ken. Msg#: 9633 *GENERAL* 11-04-88 03:12:22 From: GARY LEAR To: BOB PADDOCK (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 9598 (1802) I found out the hard way this year that Hayden is no longer in the publishing business. Howard Samms now owns all of their book rights and they do not plan to re-release alot of the books that are no longer in print. I hope a copy of this book is available for whoever needs it, your copy Bob, may become a collectors item. --Gary Msg#: 9675 *GENERAL* 11-05-88 06:56:58 From: MARK LAMPKIN To: KEN HOWELL (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 9581 (1802) Ken...Post me you address and/or Fax # and I'll send it to you myself,or contact a distributor and see if they can get you the literature...Mark Msg#: 9687 *GENERAL* 11-05-88 13:28:49 From: KEN HOWELL To: MARK LAMPKIN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 9675 (1802) Great -- P.O. 1202 Boise, ID 83701 --Ken Msg#: 9708 *GENERAL* 11-05-88 22:21:44 From: TOM ARNOLD To: KEN HOWELL (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 9581 (1802) I found the instruction set and internal architecture but not the pinout. Two TAB (ugh) books, the Microproccesor Cookbook and Handbook of Microprocessor Aplications each have a chapter on it. The one 1802 in my hoard came in the form of an RCA video game at AMVETS for 60 cents. I copied your address and will mail off the instruction set and anything that pops up out of the depths of my library. I know I have an ancient Kilobaud with an article on using 27xx roms with it. Msg#: 9728 *GENERAL* 11-06-88 15:42:35 From: KEN HOWELL To: TOM ARNOLD (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 9708 (1802) Thanks. If an ancient Kilobaud has an article on it, I may be able to locate it. Didn't Radio Electronics or Popular Electronics do a series about the "RCA COSMAC Elf," based on the 1802? --Ken. Msg#: 9763 *GENERAL* 11-07-88 11:27:07 From: JEFF JENSEN To: KEN HOWELL (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 9687 (1802) Ken, Popular Electronics did run a series on the 1802 as the COSMAC Elf. If you or your library doesn't have the series, let me know. I also found some RCA manuals on the 1802 in my library, if you need a copy of them. - - Jeff Msg#: 9766 *GENERAL* 11-07-88 12:35:09 From: BOB PADDOCK To: KEN HOWELL (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 9728 (1802) Here are some of the articals that apperaed related to the 1802: "Build A Personal Microcomputer for $100" by Martin Meyer, Electronic experimenter's Handbook 1978 Edition. (Same basic design as PE's ELF, but with expation buss, and PC board lay out). "Analog-to-Digital Conversion" by Allan Redstone, Microcomputing, April 1980. "Programing the 1802" by Dr. Robert J. Cotter Killobaud, Issue unknow. "Addition and Subtraction: The 1802 Versus the Z80" by Stephen Merrin, Byte March 1981. "Build the COSMAC Elf" Series from Popular Electronics: Part 1; August 1976, Part 2 September 1976, Part 3; March 1977, Part 4; July 1977. "The 1802 Op-Codes" by Henry Melton; Byte June 1979; gives a very well orginized table, a must for any one working with the 1802. Msg#: 9785 *GENERAL* 11-08-88 01:10:09 From: KEN HOWELL To: JEFF JENSEN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 9763 (1802) Jeff -- Thanks for the offer of the manuals. How thick/big are they? If I decide I want them, maybe I could spring for the shipping. If you wanted them back, I could make copies and return. --Ken. Msg#: 9786 *GENERAL* 11-08-88 01:11:09 From: KEN HOWELL To: BOB PADDOCK (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 9766 (1802) You are always such a wealth of information! Thanks for the info. --Ken. Msg#: 9804 *GENERAL* 11-08-88 12:25:38 From: BOB PADDOCK To: KEN HOWELL (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 9786 (1802) Thanks. Here are some 1802 tips that we've learned the hard way: Don't memory map the CDP1851 I/O port, it won't work that way, despite what the documentation says (I would try to avoide using it at all). TPA and TPB have a vary fast glitch on them, that some ACT parts see as a vailded signal, the solution is to put a 1.2k resister in series with TPA and TPB. 1802's won't run faster than 2.5 MHz even if Vdd = 10 V, the 1802A and 1802B work as docummented. One of our custumers zopped up an 1802 project of his by running it as 20 MHz; he claimed it worked fine; not some thing I would want to try on a production basis tho. (He used an externial osciolator). The 1805 doesn't have all of the instruction that the 1805A does, you end up with some strange results if you use 05A instructions on the 05. The Xtal input on the 1805A is a schmit triger input, which can make some bezare oscolations when uning just a xtal and resistor. It is possible to build a RAMless 1802 system (if you don't need much data storeage), use some of the registers to store your data. To get the logic and math instructions to work (they work by pointing to memory MR(X)), and you can't point the register at an other register, so in your EPROM sequencly store 00->FF in one page of memory. Point a register at this table, then use the operand to index into the table. Example You want to add the data in R7.1 to the data in R8.1. !LDI #HIGH TABLE !PHI R3 !GHI R8.1 !PLO R3 !SEX R3 (Stands for Set X, if some one was wondering) !GHI R7.1 !ADD D = R7.1 + R8.1 If you have a software bug it is because the X registers is not pointing to where you realy thing it is pointing to. Msg#: 9810 *GENERAL* 11-08-88 17:39:05 From: JEFF JENSEN To: KEN HOWELL (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 9785 (1802) They aren't too thick. Leave your address and I'll see what I can do. - - Jeff Msg#: 9831 *GENERAL* 11-09-88 00:01:23 From: TOM ARNOLD To: KEN HOWELL (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 9728 (1802) The ELF, and a similar machine from Netronics shared a 44 pin buss and several magazines supported them for a while. The 44 pin buss was also used by RCA for an industrial system. They sold this Microboard line to a company who now sell mostly 68000 and 64180 cards for the same buss. They still support the 1802, so here is their address: Matric Limited, RD 1 Summit Drive Franklin, PA 16323 (814) 432-2180 (800) 341-2667 Msg#: 9584 *GENERAL* 11-02-88 21:50:31 From: JOHN COOK To: STEVE SMITH (Rcvd) Subj: VGA DISPLAY OF IMAGES Steve- I downloaded your VGA display program for Imagewise pics but I'm having a slight problem with the auto-uncompress part of the program. I got it to display the sample pic no problem but when I tried to display any other images in imagewise format the program tried to uncompress the file and counlnt. So then I got out PKXARC and arced an image. Only problem was that the compressing scheme is diffrent. The program tried to uncompress the file and couldnt. What compression scheme did you use? PKXARC is the best arcer I know of so im a little puzzled. Your help would be much appreciated. -JDC Msg#:10023 *GENERAL* 11-13-88 12:27:14 From: STEVE SMITH To: JOHN COOK (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 9584 (VGA DISPLAY OF IMAGES) My VGA display program for IMAGE WISE files is designed to detect fiels that azre still in the compressed format that the digitizer/transmitter uses to send them to your computer. The IMAGE WOSE software includes compress and uncompress utilties. My program just call on them to uncompress. Occationally my program mistakes a compressed file for uincompressed or vice versa. If this happens you will need to use the compress/uncompress utilties to change to the structure it can read. I think I have fixed the problem in later versions. Note that source code is available. Send self addressed stamped mailer and new fomratted disk (or $5 and I'll find a disk etc.) to Steve Smith, 8421 Woodland Rd, Millersville, MD 21108 Msg#: 9585 *GENERAL* 11-02-88 22:48:37 From: DAVID COPPELL To: ALL Subj: 386 COMPUTER Are there any project plans from the Circuit Cellar on building a 386 PC? s Msg#: 9610 *GENERAL* 11-03-88 09:35:16 From: STEVE CIARCIA To: DAVID COPPELL (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 9585 (386 COMPUTER) I would like to do a 80386SX-based computer for the AT bus but we have not decided the timing. Whatever we do it will be in Circuit Cellar INK Journal. --Steve Msg#: 9614 *GENERAL* 11-03-88 12:19:09 From: BOB PADDOCK To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 9610 (386 COMPUTER) I was wondering why the 386SX insted of the 386? Msg#: 9624 *GENERAL* 11-03-88 19:09:37 From: JACK PERGAL To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 9610 (386 COMPUTER) Or maybe an article for a board that would adapt the 386sx to a 286 socket in an AT? I think there will be quite a market for such a board given all the AT type machines that are now in use. I'm sure these boards will be available commercially, but CCI could be the first one available. . Jack Msg#: 9854 *GENERAL* 11-09-88 15:23:05 From: STEVE CIARCIA To: BOB PADDOCK (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 9614 (386 COMPUTER) I am told that the 386sx takes 50% less hardware for only 25% less speed. --Steve Msg#: 9596 *GENERAL* 11-03-88 05:22:06 From: BOB PIERCE To: SIMON SABATO (Rcvd) Subj: 8052 INFO The Intel order numbers for the books you may be interested in are 210918 and 270535. The first number is a two volume set entitled "Embedded Controller Handbook" (vol 1 is on 8-bit controllers, vol 2 on 16-bit). It costs about $23.00. The second number is entitled "Embedded Control Applications" and includes the Circuit Cellar article on the BASIC-52 Computer/Controller from Byte AUG-85 and the EPROM Programmer from OCT-86. The variety of applications makes this the more interesting of the two. You can probably get these from Jameco or you could get them for about the same price directly from Intel at 1-800-548-4725. Also, you can probably get them for free from your local parts distributor if you do a fair amount of business with them. Msg#: 9621 *GENERAL* 11-03-88 18:53:04 From: JOHN COOK To: CURT FRANKLIN (Rcvd) Subj: COMPUTER BUS SPEED CONT. OK, what you said makes good sense but I just want to get this crystal clear -:) Since we're working with an XT clone then the buss speed is most likely to be what IBM originally used in the PC, 4.77Mhz or if we had an AT clone then it would be 6 Mhz, right? Also if you know what the pin number on the expansion slot is we could check for ourselves to make absolutely certain. Thanks again. -JDC Msg#: 9641 *GENERAL* 11-04-88 10:19:30 From: CURT FRANKLIN To: JOHN COOK (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 9621 (COMPUTER BUS SPEED CONT.) Yep, you've basically got it. I don't have a bus diagram on me at the moment, but if I were going to check for critical timings on a bus, I'd look at the line carrying memory refreshes. Now, your mission, should you decide to accept it... Msg#: 9623 *GENERAL* 11-03-88 19:03:13 From: JOHN COOK To: PC CLONE USERS Subj: PC SCHEMATICS Anyone who's read my last couple messages knows that figureing out whats inside your machine can be a real pain since most clones have minimal documentation. In this month's COMPUTER SHOPPER theres a small add for someone selling complete schematics for PCs, XTs and AT clones. heres the info: gives schematics and waveforms for: mother board, monochrome/graphics adapter, CGA adapter, multi-IO cards (com1, lpt1, drv.controller, game port, clock) $26.95 +3.50 for PC/XT or XT Turbo, 10.95 + 2.50 for AT send to: Colin Ford, P.O Box 866, Lakewood, CA 90714 I personally havent bought anything from this guy and im just offering this as a help to someone who might be looking for schematics. I want to get the XT Turbo schematics myself and if anyone has info on this I would appreciate it. thanks, -JDC Msg#: 9625 *GENERAL* 11-03-88 19:24:37 From: JACK PERGAL To: JOHN COOK (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 9623 (PC SCHEMATICS) I also remember reading about a Clone Mfg's Association that offered there specs for XT and AT clones. They offered to send the specs free to anyone asking for them. Unfortunately I didn't keep the article. I think it was in EE Times though. BTW These weren't specs for the EISA buss, just the standard clones. . Jack Msg#: 9631 *GENERAL* 11-04-88 00:23:17 From: SIMON SABATO To: ALL Subj: LCD DISPLAYS I have an anominous LCD display here. I was wondering if anyone could give me ANY information at all about it, or a display that you think may have something in common with it. It is a 2 x 40 alphanumeric. It is labeled H2515A Serial Number 0147. Dated 79-12. It is distinguished by largeish SMT ships (13 in all) labelled D880G (no manufacturer) and has ten pin molex connector on the side. Apart from the SMT chips there are a few CMOS logic "glue chips" right near the connector. It also comes with a dark grey metal panel over the front, presumably so be able to mount it. It is about 12" x 2" x 1". Thanks in advance for any help. -Simon Sabato Msg#: 9635 *GENERAL* 11-04-88 04:03:59 From: GARY LEAR To: JOHN COOK (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 2196 (LASER RANGEFINDERS) John, I have been working on a laser (LED actually) for my robot. It is not necessasry to measure time of flight. Phase or triangulation methods are also possible. Leave me a message if you are still working on this project. --Gary Msg#: 9693 *GENERAL* 11-05-88 18:21:14 From: JOHN COOK To: GARY LEAR (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 9635 (LASER RANGEFINDERS) Sorry if I mislead you, I was asking just so I could find out something about laser rangefinders. However, I do remember reading a real short article in Radio Electronics about a year ago that used infared LEDs to detect obstacles. I think it was a student project idea or something. Good luck on your project! -JDC Msg#: 9714 *GENERAL* 11-06-88 05:58:53 From: GARY LEAR To: JOHN COOK (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 9693 (LASER RANGEFINDERS) My project has to use a LED in the museum exhibit due to insurance and local ordinance reasons. However, it is *much* easier to make the same system with a laser. Do you think anyone would be interested in an article on this project (just the rangefinder for now)? Regards, Gary. Msg#: 9716 *GENERAL* 11-06-88 06:25:54 From: GARY LEAR To: JOHN COOK (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 2196 (LASER RANGEFINDERS) John, After reviewing this message thread I realized that my previous comment may not make much sense on its own (your original message number was 2196). My project was originally designed to be exhibited in the Boston Museum of Science's exhibit: "Robots and Beyond: The Age of Intelligent Machines". They have put on a traveling exhibit that is currently touring the country (in Chicago in Feb 89, I think) and may eventually go abroad. My involvement is a convoluted tale and I won't bore you with it now, but I have been working on various subsystems for about a year and a half. The subject of laser rangefinders is an interesting one, but I have to be sure to avoid conflict of interest questions with regards to my work. I would like to discuss the progress you have made on your system and perphaps refer you to some of the literature I have on the subject (in addition to my own work). Looking forward to hearing from you. --Gary Msg#: 9730 *GENERAL* 11-06-88 19:06:41 From: JOHN COOK To: GARY LEAR (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 9716 (LASER RANGEFINDERS) Um, hold on here. Last spring when I was asking about laser rangefinders I was just trying to find out how they worked for my own info. Currently the only project I have going is an addressable UART project that came from Radio Electronics. As for a laser project, well that never even got to the drawing board. Sorry if I mislead you. I am interested in such a project from an intellectual point of view but I have niether the knowlege or the resources to even begin a real project. Best wishes for your project, -JDC Msg#: 9742 *GENERAL* 11-07-88 05:15:54 From: GARY LEAR To: JOHN COOK (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 9730 (LASER RANGEFINDERS) John, I attempted to reply to this earlier but the forces of Murphy broke my connection with the host. I didn't mean to startle you :-) or anything. This museum project has turned out to be nearly more than I can handle alone (several people have recently provided some much needed assistance) and I gather info wherever I can find it. The project will not require a PhD or Bell Labs to build (afterall, I am building the first one :-) ) and I have heard from several people who say they are interested in an article on the subject. Please drop me a message now and again about your projects (thanks for your replies). Regards, Gary. Msg#: 9644 *GENERAL* 11-04-88 12:58:17 From: KEVIN WILLIAMS To: THOMAS BARNETT (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 7462 (EARLY MICRO'S) One the subject of early micros... I have a few incomplete system that maybe someone has the missing pieces to... I have an ss-50 system that has a 5 1/4 drive controller that is two board, can't think of the manufacture right off, but the dma board for the contoller is missing does anyone know anything about this?? I would be willing to get the set if possible or just the dma, or any ss-50 5 1/4 controller, or 8 controller. I also need a cabinet for an 8 inch drive, cant find one now. the drives are 8 inch shugarts(sp). I am also looking for disk controler for a trs-80 mod IV. I might also be interested in other ss-50 and s-100 boards. leave a message, or call my board---Micro Ace. 703-641-4863, more software than hardware oriented. thanks Msg#: 9878 *GENERAL* 11-09-88 20:15:33 From: THOMAS BARNETT To: KEVIN WILLIAMS (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 9644 (EARLY MICRO'S) I have a few S-100 boards still around, 8K static RAM & 8080 CPU, video board by SSM and some odds and ends. Thomas Msg#:10038 *GENERAL* 11-13-88 18:52:21 From: KEVIN WILLIAMS To: THOMAS BARNETT (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 9878 (EARLY MICRO'S) I am interested in the boards, call me at 703-998-8184, home, 703-560-1505 at work, work time is 6-6 m-f eastern time. thanks Msg#: 9648 *GENERAL* 11-04-88 15:51:28 From: TIM EMERSON To: GENERAL Subj: LARGE SCREEN DISPLAYS I have a requirement for a large screen display (4 ft X 6 ft) to display status information in a factory. The ideal solution would be an LCD unit but I have had no luck in finding one larger than a Lap top PC screen. Projection displays are too bulky and provide a lot more resolution than I need to display simple text. Any ideas where I can look? Msg#: 9649 *GENERAL* 11-04-88 16:49:13 From: RICHARD ANDREWS To: TIM EMERSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 9648 (LARGE SCREEN DISPLAYS) . If you can use a dot matrix type display I may have an idea for you. There is a company (the name of which escapes me at the moment) that makes displays that are electromechanical. The dislays are also static. They have a disk which is black on one side and yellow, or whatever, on the other side. The unit has two coils energizing the coils one way turns the black side out the other coil turns the other side out. One nice feature is that the displays are static, once set power can be removed from the coils and the disk will stay put. . I have seen this type of display used for time/temperature displays on banks, etc. If you are interested I will try to dig out the info. . Wait, I just found the address... The Staver Co. Inc. 516-666-8000 . Msg#: 9651 *GENERAL* 11-04-88 23:06:23 From: JIM NELSON To: TIM EMERSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 9648 (LARGE SCREEN DISPLAYS) The 1988/89 EEM carries some catalog pages for the Staver Company Signalex displays. See volume B, pages 1093-1097. They have 7 x 5 dot matrix alpha- numeric modules which vary in size from 4" wide by 6" high through 13" wide by 18" high. The dot display elements are also available individually. They are static electromechanical affairs, and controlled by a pair of 12 V to 18 VDC pulses. One pulse sets a dot to the fluorescent color, and the other pulse resets the dot to the background color. The pulse widths necessary vary from 1 mS at 18 VDC to 2 mS at 12 VDC. The required current for 12 VDC pulses is about 700 mA. No controller is provided; characters or graphics must be built by pulsing the individual dots, which are addressed in an X-Y matrix, on and off. This is a nasty problem, but is straightforward to handle with the right mix of experience and microcontrol and interface tools. If you're interested, I can design a smart controller for such a display. You may contact me at Chrysalis Microsystems, Inc. (313) 482-0656 FAX: (313) 482-7733 Or just leave your number, I'll call you monday. --Jim Msg#: 9665 *GENERAL* 11-05-88 01:57:29 From: GARY LEAR To: TIM EMERSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 9648 (LARGE SCREEN DISPLAYS) A company exists (I have also forgotten the name, Microcurl?? but I have it at work) that makes a display that consists of small Mylar sheets that "curl up" when a charge is removed from the retaining plate. I have seen some examples of this and it looks quite promising for the kind of problem you have. If you would like more info give me a call or leave your number and I will get back to you. (213) 379-7495 Regards, Gary. Msg#: 9745 *GENERAL* 11-07-88 08:00:14 From: BOB PADDOCK To: TIM EMERSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 9648 (LARGE SCREEN DISPLAYS) I've seems some adds for some vary large LCD, from the size you want upto bill-board size. With price ranges from about $30,000 to $2,000,000. If you realy want to pay for one of these, I'll see if I can find the add again. Msg#: 9764 *GENERAL* 11-07-88 11:30:43 From: TIM EMERSON To: BOB PADDOCK (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 9745 (LARGE SCREEN DISPLAYS) I would be most interested in any info you could get me on the subject of large screen LCD's. My company could possibly use multiple units and would likely receive a discount. I also feel that the LCD could keep up with the changing display requirements of our company. Msg#: 9798 *GENERAL* 11-08-88 07:47:55 From: JIM NELSON To: TIM EMERSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 9764 (LARGE SCREEN DISPLAYS) AEG makes some large composite LCD displays - why do you think these are better for your application than the equally monochromatic electromechanical system I mentioned earlier? Msg#: 9802 *GENERAL* 11-08-88 11:18:26 From: TIM EMERSON To: JIM NELSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 9798 (LARGE SCREEN DISPLAYS) Actually, I'm not sure that the LCD display is going to be the best way to go. I really need to get all the data before I decide. Who is AEG and how can I get hold of them? Thanks for your reply. I have found out more through this BBS in a few days than I have through normal channels in weeks. Tim Emerson Msg#: 9868 *GENERAL* 11-09-88 18:08:49 From: JIM NELSON To: TIM EMERSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 9802 (LARGE SCREEN DISPLAYS) Telefunken Electronics, AEG Corporation, POB 3800, Route 22-Orr Drive, Somerville, N.J. 08876-1269, 201/231-8493 By the way, here's an oft used rule of thumb for estimating clear viewing distance as a function of character size. Under the best conditions, and with normal eyesight, viewing distance = character height (in inches) * 50 feet; usually character height is calculated as 1 inch per 25 feet. The most flexible LCD technology is a new product called NCAP film. Great looking displays may be combined with membrane switches. Thin flexible plastic is first coated with conductive indium tin oxide, then coated with a thin uniform layer of an emulsion of tiny liquid crystal capsules. This is laminated to a second indium tin oxide coated plastic sheet which has been photochemically etched to leave conductive areas corresponding to the pattern elements to be displayed. No polarizers are used, so its contrast ratio is very high, and there are not the severe limitations on viewing angle of older glass LCDs. Both transmissive mode backlighted NCAP and reflective mode NCAP displays with colored reflectors may be combined with graphic overlays. Power consumption is down around 9 mA per square foot. Someday I'll have some wallpaper made out of this stuff. I am currently involved with two projects incorporating flat (LCD) displays. Utilization of the technology has a lot of parallels in video, which seems a thread in one way or another through 90% of what I've been doing for the past six years. Msg#:10208 *GENERAL* 11-19-88 10:02:16 From: PELLERVO KASKINEN To: TIM EMERSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 9802 (LARGE SCREEN DISPLAYS) You might also consider one of the electroluminescent displays that you see on most European airports. They are made by Finlux. Contact them at 408-725-1972. As an other point - AEG was in financial problems a few years ago and was saved by being partly bought by Daimler Benz. Now they are in an upswing, considering a purchase of some multibillion dollar enterprises. If that goes through, they may be the largest industrial enterprise in the whole world. Other than that, they make anything you might want from hair dryers and power drills to nuclear power plants. Their name pretty much says the same to the Germans that a GE says to the US population - and incidentally, translates to "General Electric Inc" or something like that! -- PJK Msg#: 9652 *GENERAL* 11-04-88 23:30:11 From: STEVE SAMPSON To: ALL Subj: SYNCHRONOUS MODEMS I just found out I need a 2400 baud SDLC modem. Anyone know who makes such a beast? Especially one that plugs into a PC or AT buss. SDLC = Synchronous Data Link Control, Intel 8273 chip. Thanks. Msg#: 9773 *GENERAL* 11-07-88 18:13:46 From: LUC DE MEYER To: STEVE SAMPSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 9652 (SYNCHRONOUS MODEMS) Steve, Regarding your message, I think you are confused a little bit. There is no 'sdlc modem' as such that I know of. The two have little to do with each other except that if you wish to transmit the syncronous sdlc communication protocol, you will indeed need a synchronous modem. What I think you need, is the SDLC controller card to fit in your PC which contains the 8273 sdlc-controllerchip mad by Intel that you refered to (IBM makes these boards, needless to say) and attached to it, you will have to hook up a synchronous modem. There are several different manufacturers of these like Motorola, Concord Data Systems and the like. In theory, it is possible to use any modem with a V22 mode (and that is most of them these days) in a synchronous fashion BUT !!!! if you are going to go out and just buy any Hayes-compatible modem, then I am affraid you are going to be disappointed. Hayes never designed the synchronous modes in it's modems to my knowledge. You need the transmit clock and receive clock on the connector as is specified in the TRUE RS232C. Since everyone seems to use the least possible options of this standard to remain at least a little bit compatible with everyone else, it will require a carefull reading of the user's manual of the modem you want to buy. That is why I would suggest asking Motorola or Concord... We use motorola 2345 synchronous modems ourselves here (configurable to 4 channels of 2400 bps with max of 1 channel of 9600) and they work just great with remote diagnosing of the line etcetera BUT THEY REQUIRE A 4-WIRE CONNECTION so a leased line or TWO dial-ups are necessary. Concord has a modem that will do the same over a SINGLE dialup. I am sure Motorola has a similar model by now. We don't use that mode yet. We stick with 4-wire dialup backup on a leased line circuit so far. On the PC that I use to send you this message, I have a Concord V22 modem, which can be set up as a synchronous modem AND it uses a single dialup! Works well (at 1200 because it is V22 but a 2400 bps V22-bis is also available). The SDLC part that you are referring to is just a way to make sure that the data get to the other side uncorrupted and at the right destination address. It is a communications protocol sort of like XMODEM and Kermit and alike. It therefore has no direct relation with the modem. I hope that I have been able to help you ahead a little bit in the world of data-comms. I will be out of town after thursday nov. 10th, so if you post me follow-up messages I may not be able to reply until nov. 27th, as I will be attending a 2-week course. Good luck and regards, Luc De Meyer (WSJ/Europe, the Netherlands) Msg#: 9777 *GENERAL* 11-07-88 20:49:14 From: STEVE SAMPSON To: LUC DE MEYER (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 9773 (SYNCHRONOUS MODEMS) Confused? Yes... The paper I have describes a "zero bit insertion after the fifth 1" type protocol. I didn't know whether all Synchronous interfaces used this type system, and wether or not they are bundled into a complete modem type package. Your message clears alot up for me. The system I want to connect to is a one way service. They ship radar data, you receive it. Can you provide an address/phone number on Concord? Where do they advertize? Thankyou very much for the message and help, Steve. Msg#: 9657 *GENERAL* 11-05-88 00:42:30 From: ANDY PICKETT To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: LASER WRITING Steve: The company I work for has dealt with General Scanning in the past on a few projects, and I have some new liturature from them in my office. If you like, I'll zap you a photocopy (or FAX it to you). Laser writing is one of my "pet" projects, so I'd really like to see a project out of this. Ya think it can be done for about $1000 to $1500 yet? Like most things, there MUST be a novel approach that no one has tried yet, so one of us ought to be able to figure it out!! Let me know if I can help. --->Andy<--- Msg#:10291 *GENERAL* 11-21-88 13:28:46 From: STEVE CIARCIA To: ANDY PICKETT (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 9657 (LASER WRITING) I'd love to see the specs. You can FAX anything to me at 203-872-2204. --Steve Msg#:10403 *GENERAL* 11-24-88 18:39:41 From: ANDY PICKETT To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 10291 (LASER WRITING) Steve: I'll fax you the info on the galvos from work on Monday. I have over 30 pages of information (including price lists), so I'll try to be selective. --->Andy<--- Msg#:10512 *GENERAL* 11-27-88 13:35:37 From: STEVE CIARCIA To: ANDY PICKETT (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 10403 (LASER WRITING) If it is 30 pages, would it be better to just mail it? A couple days won't kill us. --Steve --PS. Called General Scanning and gave them the part number you listed. They said it was discontinued. Msg#: 9669 *GENERAL* 11-05-88 02:53:35 From: BOB PIERCE To: ALL Subj: CD-ROM Does anyone out there know of any utility software for CD-ROMS in the High Sierra format. Specifically, I would like to view individual files and copy specific blocks from the file. A file on the CD is usually to large to copy in its entirety and the DOS utilities I have refuse to speak with the CD. Also, just to satisfy curiousity, I would like to be able to map a cd. Thanks for any info. Bob. Msg#: 9673 *GENERAL* 11-05-88 06:50:38 From: MARK LAMPKIN To: PELLERVO KASKINEN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 9359 (FORTH FOR BCC180) Pellervo....Where can I get a copy of this?....Mark Msg#: 9676 *GENERAL* 11-05-88 08:18:17 From: PELLERVO KASKINEN To: MARK LAMPKIN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 9673 (FORTH FOR BCC180) I thought you would have found it on East Coast Forth. If not, I can make a little disk copying and mail it to you - just give me the appropriate mailing address. But also, tell me at the same time the format you desire to get -- is it PC or SB180 format that you are working? You may have said it earlier but let's just make sure! My point is the easiest way of getting there is if you DO work with an SB180 that is also a development platform for the BCC180. I call this board only once per week, so my replies come slow - sorry about that... . -- PJK Msg#: 9717 *GENERAL* 11-06-88 06:53:58 From: MARK LAMPKIN To: PELLERVO KASKINEN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 9676 (FORTH FOR BCC180) Pellervo.....Not to worry about slow relies...I wish I had the self control to call once per week...My phone bills are pretty high,anyhow,My address is 386 Merriweather,Grosse Pte. Farms,Mich. 48236....Ireally would appreciate the software in PC format....Thanks.....Mark Msg#: 9985 *GENERAL* 11-12-88 07:18:00 From: PELLERVO KASKINEN To: MARK LAMPKIN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 9717 (FORTH FOR BCC180) OK, I'll send it shortly! As to the control - I did call a lot more frequently and many places too. The money I spent was frightening at the level of 50 - 60 bucks per month. I have chosen to call only during the economy rate times, i.e. weekends and early mornings. But the real "improvement" came with my work load that dictated leaving the early morning calls for a while. There are so many people working overtime in the evening that my overtime was more productive in the early morning. Well, that much for the calling patterns. I'm going to work even today and may be able to prepare the disk(s) there. My home computer is an SB180 and even though I have a Uniform for it I still may be better off with the actual MSDOS machines in making the copy. See ya! . -- PJK Msg#:10193 *GENERAL* 11-18-88 12:29:19 From: MARK LAMPKIN To: PELLERVO KASKINEN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 9985 (FORTH FOR BCC180) PJK....Just recieved the disks yesterday(?)...I was in Toronto on business for the last four days,so I'm not really sure when they came...I think I'll have time to play with them this weekend....Thanks...Mark Msg#: 9681 *GENERAL* 11-05-88 09:32:47 From: TIM MCDONOUGH To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 9410 (SENSORS MAGAZINE) Thanks for the info on Sensors. I'll give them a call Monday. Msg#: 9685 *GENERAL* 11-05-88 10:44:44 From: TOM HEAD To: ALL Subj: CP/M HELP I seem to recall that the subject of implementing full-track buffering in the CP/M BIOS was discussed either in the CP/M-86 manuals or in a CP/M-86 application note. Can anyone provide me with a copy of this or give more info on the subject? Msg#: 9690 *GENERAL* 11-05-88 16:19:01 From: EDWARD WOOD To: ALL Subj: PC PURSUIT Does anyone know about the availability of PC Pursuit in Canada? If you do please leave me a message. Long-distance from London, Canada to this BBS is pretty expensive. Thanks. Msg#: 9758 *GENERAL* 11-07-88 09:39:53 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: EDWARD WOOD (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 9690 (PC PURSUIT) Sorry, but PC Pursuit is only available within the U.S. I had someone on BIX tell me that international users can access the outdial modems if they know the right buttons to press, but the flat $25 per month no longer applies and they end up paying connect charges on a per-minute basis. Msg#: 9874 *GENERAL* 11-09-88 19:19:38 From: EDWARD WOOD To: KEN DAVIDSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 9758 (PC PURSUIT) Thanks for the info Ken. Looks like I'll be paying large phone bills. Msg#: 9692 *GENERAL* 11-05-88 17:40:24 From: CHUCK FRYAR To: ALL Subj: MAKING PC BOARDS sI am looking for some information on the machines that mechanicaly make PC boards by milling away the copper between traces. Specifically what I want to know is what kind (and speed) of motor is used and what kind and sources for the bit that can handle the very small size and side pressures it must receive cutting the copper. Also, can it handle one trace between pads with .1 centers? Thanks in advance, ++ Chuck Msg#: 9706 *GENERAL* 11-05-88 22:05:06 From: TOM ARNOLD To: JASON FARQUE' (Rcvd) Subj: C-- C-- (which is a great name for a tiny C) appeared a couple of months ago in a British computer magazine. It is written in Modula 2 and as written outputs 8088 assembly code. All I would have to do is substitute z8 code in the output segment of the program, and add a couple i/o words to the language to generate a cross compiler. I iwould then run the output thru my Z8 assembler, and download it or rom it. Right now I am infact working on an imbedded aplication with a Z8671 - the BCC11 board no less - but I don't plan to use C-- for it. I have several romless in my hoard, so I will do something with it later. I do hope you get your board up before I have to return this modem and go back to 300 bps. Msg#: 9726 *GENERAL* 11-06-88 15:01:34 From: JASON FARQUE' To: TOM ARNOLD (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 9706 (C--) . Tom, . . The board that I'm talking about setting up for 8031 and Z8 is receiveing some good support. I'm pretty familiar myself with that BCC board, and I've programmed many assembly routines for it. Most of the stuff I've written for the Z8 said something like: . . 10 GO@%1047 . 20 GOTO10 . . Two lines of BASIC and one big sucker ASM program. Thanks for the I/O routines, Zilog! Hahaha... I know the feeling. I'm all too familiar with the "burn and crash" method to assembly language programming. NOT fun. . . I'll be sure and leave you a message when the board goes up. Thanks for the support, and please leave me messages about the ongoing progress of C--, and if you're interested in my doing so, I'd LOVE to see the Modula-2 source code for it. I think a C compiler for the Z8 series of chips would be a good idea. If you could get it to output small enough code. . . Msg#: 9727 *GENERAL* 11-06-88 15:15:42 From: GREG BELL To: ALL Subj: SSI 263 . Does anybody have the address and phone number for SSI? I'm interested in using their SSI263 speech synthesizer, but I can't find a supplier for the chip or the company's info. . Thanks in advance, . GBell Msg#: 9744 *GENERAL* 11-07-88 07:57:36 From: BOB PADDOCK To: GREG BELL (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 9727 (SSI 263) Silicon Systems Inc. 14351 Myford Road, Tustin, CA 92680 (714) 731-7110, TWX 910-595-2809 SSI just recaintly changed there numbering system for their parts, I don't know what the new number for the 263 is. Msg#:10159 *GENERAL* 11-17-88 05:26:51 From: ERIC BOHLMAN To: GREG BELL (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 9727 (SSI 263) Hall-Mark is one of their national distributors. Msg#: 9734 *GENERAL* 11-06-88 22:51:47 From: DALE NASSAR To: ALL Subj: IBM CARDS I am using smARTWORK to lay out a circuit for a card to plug into an IBM XT or AT style computer, I would like to know the exact (offical) dimensions and tolerations for a full-length card including the length, slot area and rear. Is there a source for the metal tabs. Also if anyone is intrested I finally found a source of DB25 connectors with 100-Mil Pin Spacing (Jameco Part #DB25P831) --Dale Msg#: 9761 *GENERAL* 11-07-88 10:28:46 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: DALE NASSAR (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 9734 (IBM CARDS) I haven't found an official source of board size, but we have enough expansion boards around here that I was able to measure a few and come up with what is probably within a few hundredths of official. Total length is 13.300, height without edge fingers is 3.900, edge finger height is 0.300, distance from end of board to edge fingers is 0.900, edge finger length is 3.200, edge fingers are 0.050 wide with 0.100 center to center. This is how ImageWise/PC is being layed out. We'll have to see how close it is. ;-) For end plates, contact Olson Metal Products Company, Crossroads Industrial Center, Seguin, TX 78155, (512) 379-7000, Telex 990-697, FAX (512) 379-7197. Msg#: 9894 *GENERAL* 11-10-88 01:56:54 From: DALE NASSAR To: KEN DAVIDSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 9761 (IBM CARDS) I have had a little experience with several GPIB chips. Though I have had some minor problems with cable quality, device addressing and protocol, I have never had any trouble with the chips themselves. I am currently working on an interface using the NEC 7210. This one was chosen because it is a single chip Controller/Talker/Listener and it is cheap. > While GBIP can be a hassle, consider this; Several years ago I use to check out long period amplifiers all day long. This involved applying a 10 to 1000 second signal to the input and recording the output on a storage scope. Then I had to return every 30 minutes or so to take measurements and switch to the next frequency. One day I noticed that both the signal generator and scope had the same 24 pin connector as an HP-85 that was collecting dust in a back room. After that, plus a little programming, all I had to do was press a key in the morning and tear off the printout in the afternoon. Since then I have noticed that just about every piece of test equipment either comes with a GPIB or has it as an affordable option. > Although I am not an expert, I can probably answer any specific questions you may have on the uPD7210, i8291-8292 set, or TMS9914 (in order of my my experience). By the way, the data sheet on the 8291 specifically mentions the 8051. So if you base your design on it, you will have the resources of Circuit Cellar to help you get the microcontroller and GPIB Talker/Listener talking and listening. > BOB Msg#: 9776 *GENERAL* 11-07-88 20:46:15 From: STEVE MAHER To: BOB PIERCE (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 9743 (IEEE-488) Thanks for the advice Bob. I will probably be bothering you for information in the future. Msg#:10209 *GENERAL* 11-19-88 10:14:17 From: PELLERVO KASKINEN To: STEVE MAHER (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 9776 (IEEE-488) I read your message off line and it might be more appropriate to answer the original one (9735) than this, but ... I have had some experience with the different chips. We started our operation with a purchased board that used the NEC chip. That was used while we were developing code for our own board that used the TI chip. We had made all the hardware decisions already some weeks earlier before we knew of the NEC chip. And later on, we wished we had known better. The TI chip has some difficulties about the buffering of incoming traffic when you read the status. NEC provides you with more choices so that the buffer handling can be better tailored. We spent at least two weeks with a logic analyzer to get everything work properly on the TI based system. By the way, the Motorola chip(s) did not measure up even in the data sheet comparison initially, so I do not have real life experience about them. But I would not hesitate picking up the NEC for any future project. It just is so much more robust in the changes from data to commands to data changes. Our application may have been more complex than most, it was about handling two CS/80 disk drives, one from HP, the other one from Bering. But I still think you would save a lot of time and avoid some gray hair if you get the one with the more straight forward register control procedures. -- PJK Msg#: 9762 *GENERAL* 11-07-88 11:23:51 From: JEFF JENSEN To: MARK LAMPKIN (Rcvd) Subj: 1802/KILOBAUD Mark, if you have trouble getting the copies of KB Classroom, let me know. I've got most of the Kilobaud issues and all but the last few Microcomputing. - - Jeff Msg#: 9950 *GENERAL* 11-11-88 11:47:49 From: MARK LAMPKIN To: JEFF JENSEN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 9762 (1802/KILOBAUD) Jeff...I don't have access to old copies of Kilobaud...If you could copy them and send them to me,I would really appreciate it.....My address....... ......386 Merriweather...Grosse Pte. Farms,Mi...48236...................... ........or Fax...(313) 885-7114....THanx....Mark Msg#: 9966 *GENERAL* 11-11-88 17:32:54 From: JEFF JENSEN To: MARK LAMPKIN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 9950 (1802/KILOBAUD) Mark, I will start to collect them, but it may be a few days. - - Jeff Msg#:10192 *GENERAL* 11-18-88 12:26:13 From: MARK LAMPKIN To: JEFF JENSEN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 9966 (1802/KILOBAUD) Jeff...Thanks...Mark Msg#: 9829 *GENERAL* 11-08-88 23:51:53 From: TOM ARNOLD To: MARK LAMPKIN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 9718 (1802/KILOBAUD) My collection of Kbaud is spotty and scattered. The KKlassroom series was published as a book. It might possibly be available from Star*kits, or whatever he is doing business as these days. The same guy is behind the Radio-Electronics 68000/PC series. Msg#: 9839 *GENERAL* 11-09-88 06:01:40 From: KEVIN WILLIAMS To: TOM ARNOLD (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 9829 (1802/KILOBAUD) I reference to kilobaud, I have about 3 years of the magazine, If you want an article, or an issue, leave a message. Msg#: 9767 *GENERAL* 11-07-88 13:25:14 From: KEVIN WILLIAMS To: JOHN FETZIK (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 1859 (STUFF TO TRADE/S) I am currently collecting a few of the old computers to put on display, what do you have in the way of s-100, or ss-50 computers?? thanks Msg#: 9792 *GENERAL* 11-08-88 04:47:40 From: GARY LEAR To: KEVIN WILLIAMS (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 9767 (STUFF TO TRADE/S) I have a Zilog CPM single board I am not using. Leave me a message if you are interested. --Gary Msg#: 9794 *GENERAL* 11-08-88 07:00:05 From: KEVIN WILLIAMS To: GARY LEAR (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 9792 (STUFF TO TRADE/S) I am interested, I will would like to trade ibm compatible hardware for the board, or buy if neccassary. I have a lot of ibm equipment, new. leave a number that I can call, or call me at 703-560-1505, ext 43 ask for kevin williams. thanks Msg#: 9834 *GENERAL* 11-09-88 02:45:26 From: GARY LEAR To: KEVIN WILLIAMS (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 9794 (STUFF TO TRADE/S) You may call my home number and leave a message if I am not available. (213) 379-7495. Thanks for the quick response. Regards, Gary. Msg#:10000 *GENERAL* 11-12-88 16:19:43 From: JOHN FETZIK To: KEVIN WILLIAMS (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 9767 (STUFF TO TRADE/S) Hi, I haven't been on line in a while, so sorry for any delay in response. I have an IMSAI 8080 along with a lot of S-100 boards. I am not sure what all I've got but I'll check and get back to you. John S. Fetzik Msg#:10029 *GENERAL* 11-13-88 14:17:31 From: JOHN FETZIK To: KEVIN WILLIAMS (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 9767 (STUFF TO TRADE/S) Hello again. I went through some of the stuff I've got and here's a list. I got this stuff because no one else wanted to bother with it at school. I do know that the original IMSAI 8080 board worksand the SBC- 200 board works. I am not sure what else works at this point. I hope some of this can be of use. It's kind of a shame to just have it sitting in the corner. John S. Fetzik 1-715-235-7789 * - denotes I have manual for it. Boards: * SBC-200 SD Systems Z80 1K RAM 8K EPROM * PROM-100 SD Systems EPROM Programmer 2708/16/32 VersaFloppy II SD Systems Floppy Disk Controller 2- ECONORAM II Godbout * 4- ECONORAM IIA Godbout 8K RAM 2- Tape Interface Processor Tech. 3P+S I/O Processor Tech. * 2- GPM Processor Tech. General Purpose Memory Module 10K ROM sockets 1K RAM * FDC1 WAMECO Inc. Floppy Disk Controller * EPM-2 WAMECO Inc. * 2- RAM-4A IMSAI 4K RAM Other: * Shugart SA400 Minifloppy in case with power supply I also have a bunch of manuals for some stuff I don't have. These are all from Processor Technology Corp. SOLOS/CUTER, ALS-8, TREK-80, BASIC/5, EDIT, Cassette PILOT, CUTS, VDM- 1, 8080 Cassette FOCAL, Extended Cassette BASIC, GAMEPAC1, GAMEPAC2 Msg#: 9774 *GENERAL* 11-07-88 18:25:27 From: MARCUS HALL To: ALL Subj: SHARING AN INTERRUPT ON PC/AT BUSS I was trying to get COM3 and COM4 running under Xenix recently and I was running into a problem that makes me wonder how this ever worked previously. Xenix doesn't normally talk to the COM3 and COM4 addresses, so I was hacking with the driver to get this to work. Xenix uses interrupt driven IO, and I know that people have previously used different interrupts for COM3 and COM4 than COM1 and COM2 with success (and that's what I'm using at the moment.) Ahyhow, I patched the driver so that if it got an interrupt it would look at both devices that could be causing the interrupt and service whichever (or both) needed the work. I then set an internal modem to the "normal" setting for COM3 (3e8 address, IR4) and it seemed to be working fine, but COM1 was dead. After further hacking, I am convinced that I was never seeing an interrupt from COM1 (It wasn't the case that I was mis-interpreting an interrupt, it just wasn't occurring.) Looking at the interrupt request line on the buss, it seems that this is an active high line. If this is the case, and if it is normal to use COM3/4 with IRQ 4/3 (the way that the modem was shipped), how can any interrupts work reliably if two cards are using the same request line? Even if interrupts are not used (i.e. not programmed) on COM3, it seems that its IRQ driver will be trying to hold IRQ3 low while some device on COM1 may be trying to pull it high to get the interrupt. The interrupt controller is edge triggered, so is it supposed to be the case that IRQ lines should be left floating normally but pulsed low to send an interrupt? This would allow sharing of interrupts, but that isn't what any of the cards that I have appear to do. Why oh why didn't they just make the request line active low?? P.S. Does anybody know where the IRQ2 signal on the AT buss gets routed to? The 2nd interrupt controller is slaved into the master's IRQ2 (or so I am told, and playing with IRQ2 in experiments didn't seem to work). thanks... marcus hall Msg#: 9780 *GENERAL* 11-07-88 22:56:17 From: CHUCK FRYAR To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: COMDEX PARY Steve, I was really sorry to see that you chose to have the party on Wednesday night. As I mentioned in my earlier messages, I have to leave wed. about noon. I was really looking forward to seeing and meeting everyone. I have a picture that I think would interest you but I guess I'll have to just mail it to you when I get a chance. Have fun at the party, and maybe we can meet again in another life. +++ Chuck Msg#: 9859 *GENERAL* 11-09-88 16:00:12 From: STEVE CIARCIA To: CHUCK FRYAR (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 9780 (COMDEX PARY) Unfortunately, there are too many other parties on Monday and Tuesday that conflict. That's the only reason we picked Wednesday. Sorry but we may still run into each other there. --Steve Msg#: 9797 *GENERAL* 11-08-88 07:47:16 From: JIM NELSON To: NEIL CHERRY (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 9467 (PAL PROGRAMMERS) Neil, All the information I have on programmable logic has been provided by the manufacturers. I don't know where else to find it. The easiest and cheapest route is to find a friend with an ibm. The Zap-A-Pal project described in Byte a couple of years ago is available in kit form for $250. It programs most 20 and 24 pin bipolar as well as UV eraseable cmos EPLDs. Call Retnel Systems (617=508) 683-4659. Their ad in VLSI Systems Design warns against buying cheap Asian Ripoffs - I wonder just how cheap? PLT (303/772-9059) sells a cheap ($500) programmer dedicated to the Lattice EEPROM based Generic array logic, which replaces the whole family of the older MMI bipolar pals with two or three chips. It is a serially linked programmer. Somebody told me there's an IBM PC emulator called PC Ditto that runs on the ST. If that really works you might be able to get by with a terminal program, a serially linked PAL blaster, and with the software included with the PAL blaster or the free PALASM (MMI) or AMAZE (Signetics) software. Msg#: 9805 *GENERAL* 11-08-88 15:33:28 From: NEIL CHERRY To: JIM NELSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 9797 (PAL PROGRAMMERS) MUCH-O GRADUATES! Thanks for the info, this will go a long way toward simplifying board design. NJC Msg#: 9996 *GENERAL* 11-12-88 15:09:21 From: MICHAEL SKUCZAS To: JIM NELSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 9298 (PAL PROGRAMMERS) Thanks and I guess that the way I will have to go if I am to achive my objective. I plan to make a copy of your reply and read it very throughly. signed Michael Skuczas Msg#: 9806 *GENERAL* 11-08-88 15:40:17 From: NEIL CHERRY To: ALL Subj: INTEL BBS Does anybody have the # to the Intel BBS? Thanks yes. NJC Msg#: 9875 *GENERAL* 11-09-88 19:26:32 From: EDWARD WOOD To: NEIL CHERRY (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 9806 (INTEL BBS) Intel BBS number is 602-961-8167. Msg#:10072 *GENERAL* 11-14-88 15:00:47 From: NEIL CHERRY To: EDWARD WOOD (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 9875 (INTEL BBS) Thanks I called and they don't want regular hardware hackers up there. NJC Msg#: 9811 *GENERAL* 11-08-88 18:02:44 From: JOHN APPLEYARD To: ALL Subj: 80286 NEAT TECHNOLOGY Has anyone had or has any experience with the 16Mhz 80286 NEAT Technology Motherboard that Jameco is offering. After talking to the tech people there, this seems like a way to go if you don't want to pop for a 386. Any info or pitfalls that you may have would be appreciated. Also, are there any incompatibilities with DOS 3.3 or any of the "new" software? How about hardware problems? Msg#: 9813 *GENERAL* 11-08-88 18:52:16 From: MATTHEW LEVINE To: STEVE MAHER (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 9280 (IMAGE DATA HANDLING) STEVE , SORRY FOR THE DELAY BUT I HAVE BEEN HAVING SOME PROBLEMS WITH MY TIRED EQUIPMENT ( I SUPPOSE EVEN THE MOST DIEHARD TI-99 USERS FACE UPGRADE TIME WHEN THE OLD MACHINE " DIES HARD " OUT TO LUNCH ) BUT THAT ASIDE , LETS GET ON WITH A SYNOPSIS OF THE CONCEPT AT HAND . . . THE SYSTEM PROPOSED IS A SINGLE STATION MARINE NAVIGATIONAL DATA DISPLAY . . 1) THERE ARE ON THE MARKET , COMPUTERIZED CHART/POSITION DISPLAYS THAT SHOW A MOVING CURSOR ( BOAT ) ON A NAV CHART THAT SHOWS ALL CHARTED HAZARDS . IN THIS INSTANCE THE ENTIRE CHART IS STATIONARY AND THA CURSOR MOVES WITHIN IT . . 2) MARINE RADAR HAS A VIDEO DISPLAY THAT SHOWS ACTUAL HAZARDS CHARTED AND OTHERWISE . THIS DISPLAY MOVES AND ROTATES ABOUT A CENTERED CURSOR ( BOAT ) . . . 3) MY PROPOSED SYSTEM WOULD COMBINE TESE TWO UNITS AS WELL AS OTHER ELECTRONIC NAV AIDS INTO A SINGLE DISPLAY SCREEN PLACED IN FRONT OF THE HELM . . . 4) PROBLEM . . . CAN BOTH THE RADAR AND CHART DISPLAYS BE COMBINED ( AFTER SCALING AND ORIENTING ) COMPARED AND DISPLAYED FLAGGING CHARTED HAZARDS IN GREEN , UNCHARTED HAZARDS IN AMBER , AND HAZARDS WITHIN A PRESET LIMIT RADUS IN FLASHING RED WITH AUDIBLE ALARM ? . Msg#: 9814 *GENERAL* 11-08-88 19:00:11 From: MATTHEW LEVINE To: STEVE MAHER (Rcvd) Subj: ADDENDUM TO MSG 9813 WELL IT BOUNCED BEFORE I COULD FINISH : . . WELL I HOPE THIS ALL ISN'T TOO CONFUSING FOR YOU OR TOO MUCH TO ASK . . THANKS VERY MUCH FOR THE HELP . . . ->->-> MATT <-<-<- Msg#: 9819 *GENERAL* 11-08-88 22:16:06 From: STEVE MAHER To: MATTHEW LEVINE (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 9814 (ADDENDUM TO MSG 9813) What you are proposing is certainly feasible, but without more info, I don't know exactly how hard it would be to do. Merging two video images is certainly no problem, but typically involves many calculations. The difficulty really depends on how fast you need to do these things. If you wish to have an update rate in the 1-2 hertz range, and have on the order of a quarte million pixels on the screen, you then need something very fast to do the processing (assuming that you wish to do it all in software, the cheapest method if it is fast enough). If you can tolerate a slower update rate, something like a 680x0 will probably do the trick. Also consider the TI 32010 family of DSP chips. They have a throughput in the 5 MIPS range. Everything you mention is certainly feasible, but the implementation will depend strongly on the required speed. Other considerations are the handling of the database which contains the map information. These databases are quite large (typically covering many square miles) and handling them and keeping them loaded into memory is typically a nontrivial task. Fortunately there is a large amount of information on this topic in the literature. Check out the SIGGRAPH proceedings for the last 3-4 years, or other of the graphic publications. These techniques are usually classed in a category known as "cultural fe atures". Also keep in mind that ruggedizing equipment for a marine environment is a nontrivial operation. If you have any other questions, or wish me to elaborate on these topics, feel free to leave me additional mail. Any estimates of necessary hardware or processing power, or even choice of algorithm, probably require you to supply more detailed information about your particular application. SCM Msg#: 9830 *GENERAL* 11-08-88 23:56:06 From: TOM ARNOLD To: JASON FARQUE' (Rcvd) Subj: Z8 NONBASIC I would just as soon do all this in assembler, but I do not have a convenient way of getting eproms burnt, and havent had any luck squirting code into this thing. I'm getting pretty good results feeding BASIC files in a line at a time with my patched terminal program, so I'm figuring I'll do this whole project that way. Msg#: 9881 *GENERAL* 11-09-88 21:42:42 From: JASON FARQUE' To: TOM ARNOLD (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 9830 (Z8 NONBASIC) . Tom, . . It sounds as though you're serious. How the heck are you going about this project? 'Burn and Crash' method? Yech. Why don't you do what *I* did with the Z8671 (BASIC) chip; have one line of BASIC code that says 10 GO@%1047. That way, you get to use assembler, and still maintain the ease of use of the UART and communications built into the 671 chip. It works fairly well. Maybe we ought to get together on this. My bulletin board could use a "collaborative project" for the callers to work on. A C-- might be perfect. . . Msg#: 9883 *GENERAL* 11-09-88 21:57:56 From: TOM ARNOLD To: JASON FARQUE' (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 9881 (Z8 NONBASIC) What I'm doing is writing BASIC code in Wordstar, and then using PC - TALK III, which I have patched to wait for a ":" after every line, to download the code into ram. The 671 expects a programmer with a dumb terminal, and this is the only way I've found to get code to it. The project has become a real high priority for me; the boss just promised delivery on the machine this thing is going on. When I took this on I thought that downloading would be routine and that I could have my whole program debugged in ram and saved as a single disk file without worrying about anything but device drivers for the display. Burn and crash would be real ecch for me; the store in the neighborhood with an eprom programmer stopped opening Saturdays just as I started this thing. Is there something I could run on the BCC11 that would let me squirt BASIC or assembly code into it? Msg#: 9962 *GENERAL* 11-11-88 15:41:29 From: JASON FARQUE' To: TOM ARNOLD (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 9883 (Z8 NONBASIC) . If you're trying to put assembly code into the Z8671, you're out of luck. The only way to test those programs on the BCC11 is to burn and crash. I am familiar with THAT. But I'm fortunate enough to have a ----> Circuit Cellar Inc. <---- EPROM burner, so I don't have to go somewhere to burn an EPROM. . . If you're seriously using WordStar for programming, I'm sorry. It's not a programmer's editor. It works, but awkwardly at best. . . I've got a few pointers for you if you're interested. Give me a call at (918)258-6068 in Broken Arrow, Oklahoma. The name of the company that I work for is Control Devices, Inc. My name is Jason Farque' (Farkay). . . Sounds like I can help... . . Msg#: 9977 *GENERAL* 11-11-88 22:08:08 From: TOM ARNOLD To: JASON FARQUE' (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 9962 (Z8 NONBASIC) What I've been downloading is all BASIC code. It's clumsy so far, but it beats infinite keystrokes. I imagine it should be possible to write a monitor in basic which would permit download of binary files into ram, but I keep telling myself it makes more sense to beat my head against the problem at hand rather than a new one. I just found my old Byte with the 2716 programmer for the Z8 board but it doesn't solve anything without the ability to download. The underlying problem is the short length of my shoestring. Msg#:10099 *GENERAL* 11-15-88 14:00:28 From: NEIL CHERRY To: JASON FARQUE' (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 9881 (Z8 NONBASIC) I may be out of place but I think you should try to write a little basic program that gets a byte puts a byte. Then run it and send the file byte by byte, you could first ask for the size. That way you would know when the end has been reached. After the last byte has beend/l'd you could use that strange goto and execute the program. I thought I would just make a suggestion. Good luck. NJC Msg#:10377 *GENERAL* 11-23-88 19:54:54 From: TOM ARNOLD To: NEIL CHERRY (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 10099 (Z8 NONBASIC) That's actually my problem, which JF has been very helpfull on, so I will thank you for the hint. I've been looking at some old BASIC monitors I have for the Sinclair for similar ideas. The BASIC input routine is apparently 7 bit, so I'm thinking about uploading hex files. Of course there is still the hope I can get a better comm program that works on my Tandy 2000; then I'll just do this whole job in BASIC. Msg#: 9833 *GENERAL* 11-09-88 01:58:52 From: WAYNE J. CLEWELL To: KEN HOWELL (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 8746 (1802 SOURCES) FROM WAYNE J. CLEWELL KEN, I HAVE BEEN USING THE RCA 1802 SINCE THE FIRST ARTICLE APPEARED IN POPULAR ELECTRONICS BACK IN 1975. MOST OF THE PARTS THAT ARE NO LONGER AVAILABLE HAVE DIRECT REPLACEMENTS FROM OTHER COMPANIES. THE RCA 1852 I/O CHIP CAN BE DIRECTLY REPLACED WITH INTEL'S 8212, IN FACT I EVEN LIKE IT BETTER THAN THE 1852 BECAUSE OF THE SPEEDS THAT IT WILL ALLOW. IF YOU DROP ME A LINE CONCERNING ANY SPECIFIC NEEDS, I'D BE MORE THAN GLAD TO HELP YOU OUT, BOTH IN HARDWARE AND SOFTWARE. -- WAYNE -- Msg#: 9890 *GENERAL* 11-10-88 00:29:06 From: KEN HOWELL To: WAYNE J. CLEWELL (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 9833 (1802 SOURCES) Thanks, Wayne. If you'll leave your address (msg or email) I'll pick it up and drop you a line when I pull these suckers out of the chip holder! --Ken. Msg#: 9927 *GENERAL* 11-11-88 01:19:00 From: WAYNE J. CLEWELL To: KEN HOWELL (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 9890 (1802 SOURCES) WAYNE J. CLEWELL MAIN ST. BOX 407 MARTINS CREEK, PA. 18063 KEN - FEEL FREE TO DROP ME A LINE AT ANY TIME, UNFORTUNATELY MY OWN BBS SYSTEM IS NOT OPERATIONAL AT THIS TIME OR I'D GIVE YOU THAT INFO, BUT WHEN AGAIN OPERATIONAL I'LL DROP YOU A LINE -- WAYNE -- Msg#: 9840 *GENERAL* 11-09-88 08:04:26 From: ERIC SCHUYLER To: ALL USERS Subj: PC/AT HARD/FLOPPY HELP!! Can someone help me understand how a WD1006-WAH (1:1 MFM HD controller) can interfere with the operation of a separate floppy controller? I just replaced my XT HD controller with the WD1006-WAH (2 HD, no floppy). I am using a 360K/720K/1.2M/1.44M universal floppy controller with its own EPROM BIOS on-board. It works fine with my old 8-bit HD controller, but will not read (or boot) from the floppy disk when used with the WD1006. I am using the controllers in a 12 MHz SUNTAC PC/AT clone. A standard XT style floppy controller (360K only) works fine with either HD controller. Could my problem have anything to do with the fact that the 8-bit HD controller contains its own BIOS, but the 16-bit controller doesn't? BTW, my machine uses AWARD BIOS 3.03. Thanks for any and all help! Msg#: 9850 *GENERAL* 11-09-88 13:53:59 From: MIKE GALLAGHER To: ALL + SYSOP Subj: CPM Thanks for keeping CPm alive!!! I hope to start into the files in that section soon. CP/M forever!!!! Msg#: 9869 *GENERAL* 11-09-88 18:09:55 From: MIKE GALLAGHER To: KEN DAVIDSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 9862 (CPM) let me know where the trash can is. I'll rummage through it. I'm not that proud!! By the way, I am looking for a copy of the OLD PLOT-10 source that Tektronics put out to drive their rs-232 plotters and their monochrome (big words) vector graphics display. Any Ideas?? The Tek sales office does not even know what anything earlier than the PC or huge machines are. Msg#: 9852 *GENERAL* 11-09-88 15:10:59 From: LUC DE MEYER To: STEVE SAMPSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO 9777 (SYNCHR. MODEMS) Steve, Not all synchr. interfaces have this zero bit insert automatically. SDLC or Synchronous Data Link Control as it is called, is a high speed protocol used in networks (style X.25 with which the 8273 is compatible) where several pieces of equipment are linked together and you send a data packet to one of these by specifying a destination address in the header of a frame being transmitted. So in a way this is a very powerfull communication protocol and that is why it requires these specialised SDLC controller chips like the intel 8273 to off-load the main processor. The synchronous refers to the fact that the data bits are clocked IN SYNC with the transmit and receive clock signals and that is why you have to have these at the connector. With an async type modem, TxC and RxC are (almost) never provided. Now to come back to the zero bit insertion. What you are referring to is the 'NRZI' or Non Return Zero mode which can be (and must be to stay compatible) enabled. I may become a little technical here so skip if you dont need it, but the zero inserting is necessary because the clock is derived from the incoming data signal by using a PLL locking circuit. The problem with these is that they drift away if they dont see any reference to lock onto for a while which could be the case if you were sending a long string of '1'-es. To allow the PLL to stay locked on the incoming data (hence enabling it to generate an accurate clock!) it is necessary for inserting at least one zero in every five bits transmitted. If you are really interested then I strongly suggest reading the 8273 data sheets in the Intel Component Data Catalog which I am sure you would be able to find or else any publication explaning HDLC/SDLC or X.25 for more general background info. I cannot help you with the advertising sources on Concord, but I found an address and phone on the manual of my modem so here goes: Concord Data Systems, 303 Bear Hill Road, Waltham, Massachusetts 02154, phone 617-890-1394, telex 95-1793. I hope you succeed in putting up your system succesfully and consider it a privilege to be able to help a little bit. I remember the years that it took ME to learn what I now know and I still learn every day! Regards, Luc De Meyer (WSJ/E Heerlen, The Netherlands) Msg#: 9884 *GENERAL* 11-09-88 22:34:45 From: STEVE SAMPSON To: LUC DE MEYER (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 9852 (REPLY TO 9777 (SYNCHR. MODEMS)) Let me show my ignorance, is Heerlen near Geilenkirchen? If so I visited there about two years ago. The name sounds familiar. I stayed in the Grand Hotel and there was a restaurant nearby that I still dream about. I stayed at the Nato base for a military excercise and boy did I enjoy that. The area is much nicer than I had imagined! Thanks alot for the info, and it has helped tremendously, Steve. Msg#: 9916 *GENERAL* 11-10-88 18:00:24 From: LUC DE MEYER To: STEVE SAMPSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 9884 (REPLY TO 9777 (SYNCHR. MODEMS)) Heerlen is next to Aken indeed all in this area. There is indeed a Grand Hotel in Heerlen (in which I stayed myself a few times before my move out here). Should you visit the area again then let me know so I can give you the 10-cent tour of the Wall Street Journal offices and the printing facilities of the 'Limburgs Dagblad' that we use. I am glad the info was of use to you. Thanks and regards, Luc De Meyer Msg#: 9853 *GENERAL* 11-09-88 15:12:47 From: LUC DE MEYER To: BARRY MOSS (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO 9808 (BELL 202) Barry, I have some experience with the predecessor of the 7911, the 7910 which I use in a small modem I built myself. Works great with excellent digital filtering in the chip. But is a bit difficult to control. You really need a microprocessor to do all that. I know that the K302 does too, but it's control by microprocessor is much more polished I think, although it must be said that the 7910 design is many years old now and was quite an innovation when it first appeared. However, I have not used any Silicon Systems chips yet for the simple reason that I can not get my hands on any of their chips out here in Europe unfortunately. I say unfortunately because THE big problem with the 7910/11 is that it is FSK only and not PSK which is the Bell212 standard. I was disappointed a bit by that in the 7910/11 design. I am waiting for a good V22 chip a la 7910 myself. The Rockwell chip set is unbelievably expensive here in Europe. Not a hair on MY head thinking about buying one of these! The V23 modes are great (use simple FSK and can be implemented with the dirt cheap 7910!) were it not for the split baud rate if you insist on using it in a true Full Duplex mode. Nearly all designs here insist on using it in this shitty mode! No communication programs like procomm, mirror and so forth that I know of, will support the true Half duplex 1200/1200 mode and an interspeeder is required for PC's (because the IBM pc cannot handle split baud rates and because the BIOS has a bug which makes the RTS active all the time, thereby inhibiting true half duplex mode which is needed for V23 at 1200/1200). Anyway, good luck on your design projects and let me know if you find a good V22 (-bis?) chip somewhere. Regards, Luc De Meyer (WSJ/E Heerlen, The Netherlands) Msg#:10803 *GENERAL* 12-01-88 21:54:59 From: BARRY MOSS To: LUC DE MEYER Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 9853 (REPLY TO 9808 (BELL 202)) There are a number of good V.22 bis chip sets available. Perhaps the best is Intel's relatively new 89024 set (consists of a 89027 analog front end and a 89026 controller). The 89026 is really a 8096 with a mask ROM programmed to do digistal signal processing and the Hayes AT command set. This is a very slick set-up. It does V.22 bis, V.22, V.21, Bell 212 and 103! Plus it has an on chip hybrid. Just add a few external passives, RS-232 drivers/receivers, a DAA and you have an instant modem. Other devices you might want to consider are the Silicon Systems K224 (same set of functions as above but you add your own controller chip) and the AMD Am79C14 (all of the above + V.23). The 79C14 should be available in early '89. I've been told by the AMD rep that a Norwegan company is doing the design of this chip. One other chip set is the Rockwell RC224AT. It just happens that I'm using an evaluation board from Rockwell right now to dial-in. The RC224AT has V.22 bis, V.22, V.21, Bell 212 and 103 and does the AT command set. Unfortunately one of the chips is a 64 pin QUIP package which makes prototyping much more difficult. Both the K224 and RC224AT work well and I haven't had a chance to try out the other two yet. Maybe we'll see a construction article in Circuit Cellar Ink on one of these someday. Msg#: 9873 *GENERAL* 11-09-88 18:36:20 From: JIM BACHSTEIN To: JEFF JENSEN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 8449 (IBM PC ROM) Thanks //Jim// Msg#: 9882 *GENERAL* 11-09-88 21:45:12 From: TOM ARNOLD To: GARY LEAR (Rcvd) Subj: SUPER8 MONITOR My Zilog rep is kinda cute too, but he's not my type (not to mention how upset the wife and girlfriend would get). I honestly believe that Zilog would not mind my getting the source for the monitor. The development kit I got used to come with the source, and the MN. rep (the one who knows Z8) was surprised I didn't get it. He said he was going to check into it and get beack to me, but that was six months ago. I hope you get an answer quicker. Msg#: 9976 *GENERAL* 11-11-88 22:01:34 From: TOM ARNOLD To: GARY LEAR (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 9896 (SUPER8 MONITOR) My address is 1919 W. Melrose, Chicago, IL 60657. Having assumed the board was going to sit till I could write some sort of firmware for it, I have no problem waiting till honor is satisfied. A major portion of the income on which my father raised us came from the sale of copywritten material. Msg#: 9983 *GENERAL* 11-12-88 03:53:51 From: GARY LEAR To: TOM ARNOLD (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 9976 (SUPER8 MONITOR) It would appear that being from my home state is a blessing. I spoke with my local Zilog office today and discovered that the software was written by a third party. When I described your problem however, he gave me permission to send you a copy of the program (he seemed to think that a copy of the code was available on the distribution disk, I haven't checked). If you would like an EPROM as well (to save a *LOT* of typing) please send me a blank and I will copy my EPROM for you. My address is 2715 Vanderbilt Lane Unit A, Redondo Beach, CA 90278. I appreciate your patience in this matter, but I had to be sure I was on solid ground. BTW, what did your father sell that was copyright protected (books, software, etc)? I will mail a copy of the listing next week. Good luck and let me know if I can be of any further help. Regards, Gary. Msg#:10007 *GENERAL* 11-12-88 22:31:18 From: TOM ARNOLD To: GARY LEAR (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 9983 (SUPER8 MONITOR) That's the best news I heard all day! The blank EPROM and a blank disk will be in the mail tomorrow. The source code for the monitor were on the disk originally, but I got the board rather recently, and it seems they dropped it. What my father wrote was books and magazine columns, mostly on the subject of photography. He was freelance from before I was born until he passed away after I had moved out and gotten married. I did not grow up prepared to punch a timeclock. Msg#:10373 *GENERAL* 11-23-88 19:31:03 From: TOM ARNOLD To: GARY LEAR (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 10118 (SUPER8 MONITOR) After stating that I was going to ship off the blank eprom instantly, I went and checked what size I needed and discovered that it's a 27256, and the biggest I have in inventory is a 64. In about another week I should be able to order one; then I can finally rush one out to you. I wish you the best of luck with striking out on your own. It sure beats what we inn the Rust Belt do when layed off, which is typically sitting around the tavern across from the mill talking about how things will soon be just like they used to. That's why I'm working with the microcontrollers evenings; none of that for me. Thankyou for your note of sympathy. It happens to be 15 years today since my father passed away, and my mother is now critically ill, so I am especially touched by the thought. Msg#:10391 *GENERAL* 11-24-88 07:25:59 From: GARY LEAR To: TOM ARNOLD (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 10373 (SUPER8 MONITOR) Send the EPROM off as soon as it is available, and I will mail it right back. I have a good friend who is an independent consultant in software (specifically, the Mac) and is about to publish his first major work (other than some early video games). He has worked for more than two years (15 hour days, 6 days a week) to get his product ready. Despite the fact that he has worked harder than he did at our place of employment, he has greatly enjoyed the freedom to pursue his own dream (or to starve, as the case may be). He has received tremendous support from his wife and kids as well. One of my biggest problems is that my fiancee' is not really crazy about the idea of me going independent, but it is something that I must try at least once. Let me know if you have any special interests or projects you would like to work on. Both of my parents are reasonably healthy at the moment, but some of the people I knew in my childhood are displaying symptoms of chronic illness or have already died. Thus I know that my parents will suffer a similar fate in the near future. I hope your mother recovers from her illness (I lost an aunt to Alzheimers disease earlier this year) and I wish you the best in your quest to avoid what Robert Heinlein called "honest work". Best regards, Gary. Msg#: 9886 *GENERAL* 11-09-88 23:30:38 From: JOE PIERCY To: ANYONE Subj: WIRE WRAP SOCKETS Anyone know where I can order 64 pin DIP wire wrap sockets? I need a couple for an HD64180 project, and haven't been able to find any yet. Msg#:11127 *GENERAL* 12-07-88 17:44:23 From: BARRY MOSS To: JOE PIERCY (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 9886 (WIRE WRAP SOCKETS) Aries makes a 64 pin 0.900" wire wrap socket. You can probably get themthrough Digikey. (Sorry, I can't find the address right now but they advertise in a number of the electronics magazines.) Msg#:11452 *GENERAL* 12-13-88 19:14:07 From: JOE PIERCY To: BARRY MOSS (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 11127 (WIRE WRAP SOCKETS) Thanks - I've been {lanning to get their catalog becuase their name keeps coming up here & there. Msg#: 9891 *GENERAL* 11-10-88 00:32:54 From: TIM MCDONOUGH To: ALL Subj: FOR SALE I still have the following items for sale, now at reduced prices: 9 Mhz SB180FX Single Board Computer w/SCSI $300.00 10 MByte Xebec Owl SCSI drive for the SB180 $225.00 6 Mhz SB180 Single Board Computer $200.00 Leave a message here, I check in once or twice a week. Tim McDonough Msg#: 9905 *GENERAL* 11-10-88 10:31:16 From: BRENT BIERNAT To: ALL Subj: VIRUS HELP MY COMPUTER HAS A VIRUS THAT STARTS BY MAKING THE HARD DRIVE GRIND AND THEN PROGRESSIVLY DESTROYES FILES. IT EVENTUALY EATES THE SYSTEM FILES AND EVEN RETRANSFERING THE SYSTEM WILL NO ALLOW YOU TO LOAD FROM THE HARD DRIVE. THE VIRUS HIDES FOR ABOUT A MONTH BEFORE IT TAKES OVER. I HAVE IT ON MY BACK UP FILES AS WELL AS ON MY NOW DESTROYED HARD DRIVE. ANY SUGESTIONS ON HOW TO GET RID OF THIS WOULD BE MOST APPRESHIATED. Msg#: 9922 *GENERAL* 11-10-88 21:32:32 From: MARC D'ALOISIO To: BRENT BIERNAT (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 9905 (VIRUS) If you have no good backups, the only surefire solution is a total reformat (of course you'll lose everything). Any idea where the virus came from? They usually replicate themselves and attach to anything they can, so even if you knew the software that introduced it, the only thing you could do is avoid it next time (and let the rest of us know too so we can also avoid it). There are a couple of PD virus 'detectors' that prevent writing and formatting of the hard drive (such as bombsqad). If you're interested (although it's too late for this time) I'll upload them for you. Msg#:10097 *GENERAL* 11-15-88 12:45:25 From: BRENT BIERNAT To: MARC D'ALOISIO (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 9922 (VIRUS) LUCKLY I DID HAVE A BACK UP UNFORTANITILY ON THAT BACKUP DISK LURKS THE VIRUS. THIS TIME I AM GOING TO TRY USING FLUE SHOT. IF I FIND OUT WHERE IT IS COMING FROM I WILL TELL YOU. IF YOU HAVE ANY OTHER SUGETIONS ON HOW TO FIND OUT WHICH PROGRAM IT IS I WOULD APRESHATE IT. THANKS FOR YOUR REPLY. Msg#:10100 *GENERAL* 11-15-88 14:08:42 From: NEIL CHERRY To: BRENT BIERNAT (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 9905 (VIRUS) That grinding noise sounds more like a hardware problem. If it is then its time to look into a new hard drive. Software I know about does not cause hard drives to grind. But I would have to hear the noise. (I have a 10 meg IBM PC hard drive that grinds and gnaws. NJC Msg#:10103 *GENERAL* 11-15-88 17:13:53 From: MARC D'ALOISIO To: NEIL CHERRY (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 10100 (VIRUS) If you were to tell your drive to read an absolute sector and that sector happens to be bad or marked as bad, the seek will sound a lot like grinding (it's actually the stepper motor causing the noise). Also, try telling a drive to read a nonexistant track (i.e track 700 on a drive with 612 cylinders such as a ST225 or like). If a virus or trojan destroys the fat by marking that cylinder as bad (easy way to do it), it could cause a "grinding" noise when trying to read it. Lots of reasons for grinding. If it was and actual head/platter collision, chances are that a reformat would fail miserably because one head would probably be wiped out. Msg#:10104 *GENERAL* 11-15-88 17:19:15 From: MARC D'ALOISIO To: BRENT BIERNAT (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 10097 (VIRUS) Try making command.com or other recipients of the virus read only using attrib (or write protecting diskettes and running from them). When the virus tries to infect other programs or command.com, you should get a "write protect error" or "access denied" unless the virus is very well written. Msg#:10109 *GENERAL* 11-15-88 20:05:38 From: JACK PERGAL To: MARC D'ALOISIO (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 10104 (VIRUS) That's the problem with trying to make a file read only, a virus can change the file attributes as easily as you can. He probably should make copies of his original system disks onto a floppy then put a write protect tab on the floppy and then boot from the protected floppy. He can then install flu-shot or some other anti virus program and go on from there. . Jack Msg#:10128 *GENERAL* 11-16-88 09:19:01 From: ALEXANDER SCHNEIDER To: JACK PERGAL (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 10109 (VIRUS) Is it possible on the IBM PC that software might make the computer ignore the write-protect sensor? Alex Msg#:10132 *GENERAL* 11-16-88 12:18:18 From: MARC D'ALOISIO To: ALEXANDER SCHNEIDER (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 10128 (VIRUS) It's possible, but for someone to go to that much trouble is HIGHLY unlikely. The people who write virii are usually not _that_ good. Msg#:10146 *GENERAL* 11-16-88 18:28:54 From: JACK PERGAL To: ALEXANDER SCHNEIDER (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 10128 (VIRUS) I'm not postive about this but I don't think you can over ride the write protect tab on a floppy. The write protect is a type of hardware interlock on the disk drive. I've got the schematic for my 360k floppy drive here so I'll take a look at it and see if you can over ride it with software. . Jack Msg#:10152 *GENERAL* 11-17-88 01:34:01 From: KEN LOGSDON To: NEIL CHERRY (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 10100 (VIRUS) Just to throw my 2 cents in, every floppy drive diagram I've ever run across has the write protect switch or optoisolator connected to the internal logic of the drive, whether it be discrete SSI or MSI packages, or an LSI controller chip of some kind on the card in the drive. I would presume, but wouldn't swear, that most drives are designed to disable writing if the notch is covered, regardless of what the software tries to do. On the otehr hand, I've heard unconfirmed rumors that some 3.5 inch floppies depend on a software lockout scheme, which, obviously, could be defeated if such were the case. Msg#:10176 *GENERAL* 11-17-88 21:55:49 From: STEVEN HARGUS To: MARC D'ALOISIO (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 10104 (VIRUS) Another possibility for the grinding noise could be the static discharge contact on the hard disk itself. Try bending it a little or even a SMALL drop of lubricant. These things wear and sometimes hits a resonant point. Msg#:10181 *GENERAL* 11-18-88 00:39:48 From: GARY LEAR To: KEN LOGSDON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 10152 (VIRUS) Ken, when I used to work for DEC we had an ongoing fight between our customers and the vp of engineering (I believe it was still Gordon Bell at that time) about whether to use a sensor or software protection approach on our 8 inch floppy drives. Unfortunately, Gordon won (I was told he was the principal proponent of this, he may not have been however). Regards, Gary. Msg#:10288 *GENERAL* 11-21-88 13:18:24 From: NEIL CHERRY To: MARC D'ALOISIO (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 10103 (VIRUS) Oh! Yes, I guess you would have to be there to determine the source. NJC. Msg#:10290 *GENERAL* 11-21-88 13:23:31 From: NEIL CHERRY To: STEVEN HARGUS (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 10176 (VIRUS) DON'T ADD LUBRICANT TO YOUR HARD DISK UNLESS YOUR MANUAL STATES TO DO SO! Also DON'T TRY to bend your hard drive because you won't be able to, not unless you're Very strong. NJC Msg#:10302 *GENERAL* 11-22-88 08:31:10 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: NEIL CHERRY (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 10290 (VIRUS) He wasn't suggesting that he try bending the hard drive. He said try bending the grounding tab that drains excess static charge off the platter spindle. I do agree that lubrication be approached with caution and is done at your own risk. Msg#:10320 *GENERAL* 11-22-88 09:59:24 From: STEVEN HARGUS To: NEIL CHERRY (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 10290 (VIRUS) That's correct, only add a VERY SMALL amount if absolutely necessary. Usually just be 6-nding the grounding tab will do the trick, although you need to make sure that the tab is still in contact with the motor spindle, otherwise static electricity will cause numerous read and write errors. Msg#:10372 *GENERAL* 11-23-88 17:56:59 From: MARC D'ALOISIO To: STEVEN HARGUS (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 10320 (VIRUS) Not that it's any of my business, but I've been told by factory personnel that a _small_ amount of white lith is recommended and ok for noisy static grounds. Also, as a matter of trivia, I witnessed a technician use about 15 drops (maybe more) of REM-OIL (a lubricant the consistancy of lps 1 but _much better_..it lasts longer and works better on FDDs) directly into the top bearing of an in house hard drive. This was better than 3 months ago and the hard drive is still chugging along. (my bet was 3 days). marc Msg#: 9907 *GENERAL* 11-10-88 11:45:03 From: RANDY POJAR To: ANYONE Subj: RS-422 COMM. does anyone know where i can find a book or some sort of technical data on the rs-422 comm. interface? Msg#: 9929 *GENERAL* 11-11-88 04:25:54 From: GARY LEAR To: RANDY POJAR (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 9907 (RS-422 COMM.) In addition to the RS-422 spec itself (almost useless) a number of the major chip manufacturers (AMD,TI,MOTOROLA,NATIONAL,etc) make driver chips for the various communication standards. A likely source for good practical info is their application literature. An old AMD data book comes particularily to mind. Please let me know if none of this is available to you and I will see what I can dig up. Good luck! --Gary Msg#: 9911 *GENERAL* 11-10-88 13:55:59 From: ADAM SUNDOR To: ANYONE Subj: HAL I am offering the HAL software, hardware, calibration, and electrodes for sale that I do not yet available elsewhere for sale. I have to charge because I just lost my job, fortunately, in the defense industry, and want to see if I can survive offering products and services that surpass expectations and requirements - the opposite of our defense industry as the Stark has shown. Anyways, for $ 19, I have the first release of software that puts up four channels on the screen and have the computer give sound biofeedback according to the channel, frequency, and amplitude that you select. Also, I have pure silver electrodes that solve the problems of gooey pastes and gels by using only salt water and are easy to place. Since most psychologist know nothing about physics, electricity or signal processing, and use bipolar placement electrodes instead of monopolar, thereby destroying important signals they actually want to record. Dummies. I also offer calibration of the units so if you send me your unit I can calibrate it to be in actual microvolts, according to the tolerance of your video system. My telephone number is 215-657-0991 and my address is 3980 Commerce Ave., Suite Twenty-three, Willow Grove, PA 19090. Or you can contact me here. I am trying to see if there is any interest, apart from the professionals who will be interested in these services. The HAL kit works as well as any professional unit costing 50 times more. So the value is there, making EEG biofeedback available to the masses. Oh, I lost my job because I made too much noise about the abuses in the system, and since I am a private contractor, I am not protected by any of the federal legislation. But EEG biofeedback teaches me to calm out and make the best of the situation. Do you think I should also offer extensive instruction on how to actually use these kits in accordance with gaining psychological control and insights? Thanks especially to Steve Ciarcia and Jeff Bianchi for doing such a great job on the design of the kits. Now if they only put in a notcih filter for 60 Hz, I could sample refequencies at 40 Hz for research pruposes. Msg#: 9917 *GENERAL* 11-10-88 19:16:01 From: PETE PETTIT To: ALL Subj: UNCLAMPED COMPOSITE VIDEO TO RGB Hello, folks. This is my first time on the board, as I just received my first issue of INK. Neat Mag. Anyhow, for the past few years I have noticed that the BBC sends their newscasts out on one or two satellite transponders. But they are in the Brit standard: 50 Hz, 625 lines. I have been wondering if it would be possible to use an adaptable sync monitor such as the NEC multisync with some sort of circuit to decompose unclamped composite video into RGB. Obviously, any color will be lost but that isn't any where near as bad a distractor as the horrible frame rate simulation of a terminally dirty vertical hold problem. If anyone has any ideas, leave me a message here. By the way, I don't want to hear from anyone with any ideas about any illeagal activities. Busting cable tv channels is not worth the effort, and good books are a lot cheaper than dumb movies. Laserdisks are much more fun and can be interfaced with RS-232 if you are lucky enough to have one from an old videogame. Msg#: 9925 *GENERAL* 11-11-88 00:54:28 From: CHARLES STEWART To: GENERAL Subj: BUSS SPEED Buss speed (and noise associated with higher speeds) is an issue in making faster microcomputers. Is anyone looking into use of fiber optics for the buss signal lines? Is current fiber technology such that speed improvement s can be obtained, and at the same time, translation of optical signals to voltage changes be done in small enough packages to support existing card designs? The major advantage that IBM's Micro Channel seems to have over the (as yet not officially specified) EISA Buss is its potential for supporting much higher buss speeds. I wonder if optical fiber technology could eliminate this advantage? Msg#:10003 *GENERAL* 11-12-88 17:58:55 From: JIM NELSON To: CHARLES STEWART (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 9925 (BUSS SPEED) You might take a look at the June 1988 issue of "VLSI Systems Design" for an article about optical interconnects. We'll all see a few more birthdays before they become cheap enough to use. Msg#:10115 *GENERAL* 11-16-88 00:14:59 From: CHARLES STEWART To: JIM NELSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 10003 (BUSS SPEED) Thanks for the tip. I'll see if I can scrounge up a copy of that publication. I'll bet the Iron Brain Makers have a working version tucked away in a corner somewhere waiting until they perceive the market to be ripe.... Msg#: 9953 *GENERAL* 11-11-88 12:05:58 From: BOB PADDOCK To: EDWARD SCHRAM (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 9342 (Z80-XINU) I download and read the xinu-1 stuff today. Looks a lot simpler than I though it would be. Was there ever an XINU.NET set up, and are the news letters still being published? Looks like several people have already ported it to the 68000, and ideas where I can lay my hands on one? Thanks. Msg#: 9978 *GENERAL* 11-11-88 22:20:56 From: STEVE SAMPSON To: BOB PADDOCK (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 9953 (Z80-XINU) I uploaded that file. It is quite old though. At one time I had zinu running on my heathkit h-89 using Software Toolworks C compiler. It was very educational. The newsgroup that I made copies of may have went on for a couple more issues, but the group moderator then disapeared. This group was made up of Usenet people. I left after loosing my college account at OU. I never did see any real 68k code though, as the moderator only allowed uucp access to his Unix machine. Msg#: 9988 *GENERAL* 11-12-88 10:28:48 From: BOB PADDOCK To: STEVE SAMPSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 9978 (Z80-XINU) Ok thanks for the info. Msg#: 9954 *GENERAL* 11-11-88 12:07:09 From: DAVE FILICICCHIA To: ED NISLEY (Rcvd) Subj: LANGUAGES Steve, I have been using the 8051 for some time now and started with learning PL/M51. I use it at work and have enjoyed its flexibility. I want to do some home projects using a high level language with the 8051 but all the software packages are so expensive ($750 - $1000). Do you know of any high level language package for the 8051 that can be purchased for a more reasonable price (like around $200 or so) ? It would be great to stick with PL/M but C or maybe even basic would be OK. I already contacted Softaid, but they don't have a BASIC for the 8051. I also have some info for power up circuits for the 8051. Maybe I can relate it in another message at another time. Thanks Msg#: 9991 *GENERAL* 11-12-88 13:15:57 From: ED NISLEY To: DAVE FILICICCHIA (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 9954 (LANGUAGES) Beats me... Avocet advertises both C and Pascal, but they're both in the high price end of the market. I'm not entirely convinced that high level languages are a Good Thing for single chip micros. After all, they depend on architectural features that microcontrollers (at least 8051s) don't have: big stacks, lots of registers, orthogonal instruction sets, lots of address space. The tack we've been taking on Circuit Cellar projects is to put as much function in the PC code and as little in the 8051 code as possible. The principle is to make the 8051 code simple, because writing and debugging it is such a pain... as you're well aware! Msg#:10068 *GENERAL* 11-14-88 12:56:57 From: DAVE FILICICCHIA To: ED NISLEY (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 9991 (LANGUAGES) Actually, I have found PL/M to be a pretty reasonable language. It seems to have a lot of parllels to C without being too cryptic. Table lookup becomes easy and even pointers aren't too dificult to use. I had done a couple of designs that use the 8051 as a machine controller that didn't require any external RAM. After just learning Turbo C, I still prefer PL/M for now because it has a bit more structure and forces you to declare variables in a more obvious manner than C. Also, i find using keywords to be helpful even though it requires more typing. Constructs in C that use the ? in the special case of IF are confusing to me as a beginner C program, and the IF THEN ELSE of PL/M is rather straightforward. I guess we all tend to use what is most comfortable. Thanks Msg#:10078 *GENERAL* 11-14-88 21:47:03 From: ED NISLEY To: DAVE FILICICCHIA (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 10068 (LANGUAGES) Yeah, even if it wasn't comfortable when you got started, you can put up with almost anything else rather than learn something new. I've had this slap me a couple of times so far... Msg#: 9955 *GENERAL* 11-11-88 12:29:49 From: DAVE FILICICCHIA To: ALL Subj: 8051 LANGUAGES I'm just starting to use this BBS and am getting used to the way things work. My message to Steve (#9954) is actually to all who are interested. After looking around here a bit (it's my first time on the BBS) I see that Matra Harris has a Tiny Basic available and I realize that there is the BASIC52 but I really would like to find a fast language for the 8051 that doesn't cost a lot. I've even considered writing a PL/M compiler, but that is such a huge undertaking. Msg#: 9968 *GENERAL* 11-11-88 18:57:21 From: JIM NELSON To: DAVE FILICICCHIA (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 9955 (8051 LANGUAGES) Bryte Computers sells a Forth for $100. 603/469-0046 is their Maine phone number. This Forth will be 10 times faster than Basic on the 8031. Of course, if you can't respect such an inexpensive product, you can buy 8051/31 ChipForth from FORTH Inc. for $3750.00 or from MPE for 225 pounds sterling. Bryte Forth is supplied in an 8KByte eprom. The Forth assembler is included as is a 130 page manual. 2 Kbytes of RAM are required as a minimum; program and data memory spaces must be mapped to the same physical memory devices. Forth has been called a programming amplifier - it multiplies the power of good programmers. It has the interactivity that BASIC programmers embrace. This is combined with the speed and Lisp-like extensibility necessary to allow you unequaled access to and control of microcontroller hardware. Msg#: 9984 *GENERAL* 11-12-88 04:05:09 From: GARY LEAR To: JIM NELSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 9968 (8051 LANGUAGES) Jim's message sounds like that of a true blue FORTH man (we have one at work). There are times however when the microcontroller is already running with pins to the wall and *only* assembly will do (or else add some more hardware). FORTH has its place as a tight, self contained operating environment, but it takes a completely different mindset to program in it at all effectively. --Gary Msg#:10031 *GENERAL* 11-13-88 16:08:49 From: JIM NELSON To: GARY LEAR (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 9984 (8051 LANGUAGES) . Ray Duncan wrote an article on Forth for the November/December issue of "Programmers Journal." He begins with these quotations: . " I have yet to see a decent piece of software written in Forth. Let's face it, Forth stinks." John Dvorak . " Forth is the first language which has been honed against the rock of experience before being cast into bronze." Charles Moore . " Only brain damaged programmers use Forth." Allen Holub . " Forth is like the Tao. It is a Way, and is realized when followed. Its fragility is its strength, its simplicity is its direction." Michael Ham Rather than finding myself bound by a mindset, I have found a great freedom in using Forth. What isn't widely understood is that a good forth programmer can command, in a single application, the entire range of machine level to 4th generation software engineering technology. I used Forth tentatively for over a year before I became aware of the mindsets consequent to my experience in traditional languages. Msg#:10067 *GENERAL* 11-14-88 12:46:47 From: DAVE FILICICCHIA To: JIM NELSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 9968 (8051 LANGUAGES) Thanks for the info. In the past, I had read briefly about FORTH and saw it as a distinct change of pace from other programming languages. I don't know too much about it except that it is a stack intensive language and uses RPN which has always been a bit akward for me. Yes, I do prefer using algebraic calculators over HP! It's hard to change your way of thinking after about 25 years of learning it the same way. Anyway, thanks for the info. It certainly does meet the $$ criteria which would make it worthwhile to learn something new. I was really hoping for the familiar PL/M though. Thanks for the help. Msg#:10121 *GENERAL* 11-16-88 04:15:58 From: GARY LEAR To: JIM NELSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 10031 (8051 LANGUAGES) I have written a few small programs in Forth in an attempt to grasp the differences in overall philosophy. So far I have had only minimal success (I assume that you are familiar with Leo Brodie's two books, "Starting Forth" and "Thinking Forth" at least one of which was written at FORTH, Inc.). So far I have the same complaint that I have with C (oh no! I hope this doesn't offend anybody), that in an attempt to be concise the language is excessively terse. This may be contrasted with Pascal, which is a heavily "typed" language (this means entirely two different things to beginning and experienced Pascal programmers!). I still favor assembly for fast control applications, but this may be attributible to my hardware origins. BTW, have you seen the new FORTH chip from Harris Semiconductor. It executes Forth as its basic machine code and it supposedly very fast. If I recall correctly, Charlie Moore designed it himself. Regards, Gary. Msg#:10292 *GENERAL* 11-21-88 13:31:02 From: NEIL CHERRY To: GARY LEAR (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 10121 (8051 LANGUAGES) If you want something that's like PASCAL with C's power use a C compiler that uses the ANSI standard. My compiler (Lattice C for the Atari ST) follows it and gives me error messages if everything doesn't match perfectly. NJC Msg#:10390 *GENERAL* 11-24-88 07:06:56 From: GARY LEAR To: NEIL CHERRY (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 10292 (8051 LANGUAGES) I predominately use microcontrollers for my work. Do you know if this compiler is available for any of the popular microcontrollers? --Gary Msg#:10575 *GENERAL* 11-28-88 13:56:38 From: NEIL CHERRY To: GARY LEAR (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 10390 (8051 LANGUAGES) If your refering to C source stuff. NJC Msg#:11128 *GENERAL* 12-07-88 17:47:59 From: BARRY MOSS To: NEIL CHERRY (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 10292 (8051 LANGUAGES) Archimedes Software makes a sophisticated C compiler for the 8051, 68HC11,6301, 8096, and Z80. I haven't actually used the product but the demos look very good. Unfortunately the compliler costs $1000. Archimedes alsomakes a simulator debug tool allowing you to directly debug the C code(cost $600). Their address/phone is Archimedes Software Inc.2159 Union StreetSan Francisco, CA 94123(415) 567-4010 Msg#:11188 *GENERAL* 12-09-88 08:51:25 From: RICHARD ANDREWS To: BARRY MOSS (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 11128 (8051 LANGUAGES) .My company evaluated the Archimedes C compiler for the Z-80 and ultimately rejected it because it did not seem to produce very efficient code. One glaring problem occurs with switch-case functions. . Given the following piece of code: . switch n { case 1 . .do_this(); .break; . case 2 . .do_that(); .break; . case 1000 .do_something_else(); .break; . default .break; . } . The Archimedes C compiler will generate code for the case when n=1, when n=2, and when n=1000 as all compliers should; however, it also generated code for all the cases between n=2 and n=1000. In their manual they even say that if there is a large jump in the possible values for n, it may be more efficient to use if-then-else statements. . .To be fair, this was a year ago and I believe that fixing this was a high priority. In addition, this may not apply to their 8051 compiler but it is something that you may want to watch out for. Msg#: 9956 *GENERAL* 11-11-88 12:40:09 From: DAVE FILICICCHIA To: JASON FARQUE' (Rcvd) Subj: 8051 I'm not sure I'd be able to support a BBS because I don't have a modem of my own. The 8051/31 is definitely of interest to me though. Maybe I should just break down and get a modem. But then the phone bills! Well, i have designed controller systems using the 8031 so if you are interested, leave a message. Msg#: 9963 *GENERAL* 11-11-88 15:43:56 From: JASON FARQUE' To: DAVE FILICICCHIA (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 9956 (8051) . No modem? Argh! How can you live a full and complete life without a modem? Hahaha... I would expect my board to support the 8031/51, and carry user-written software as well as shareware and public domain compilers/assemblers. I think it would be useful to many people after it accumulated some knowledge and software. Now I've just got to find some initial users to help get it rolling! . . Msg#: 9969 *GENERAL* 11-11-88 19:23:53 From: JACK PERGAL To: ALL Subj: EISA BUSS TEXT FILE I just uploaded a short file describing the EISA buss. The file is in the form of Questions and Answers about the buss and a press release from the EISA people. A phone number for the EISA BBS is also included. . Eisa Forum and EISA Developers BBS . (202) 371-5925 1200/2400 Baud . I left the number in this message because the file might not get posted for a while. . Jack Msg#: 9975 *GENERAL* 11-11-88 20:43:47 From: JUSTIN HOLMES To: EGA USERS Subj: ANYONE I NEED HELP WITH A THOMSON EGA BOARD, I HAVE AN AT&T PC 6300 AND CAN'T GET IT TO WORK. IF ANYONE OUT THERE HAS ONE WITH A 6300, LEAVE A MESSAGE, PLEASE! Msg#: 9987 *GENERAL* 11-12-88 10:20:37 From: MARC D'ALOISIO To: JUSTIN HOLMES (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 9975 (ANYONE) Although I don't have a 6300 (personal bias from working w/ AT&T machines), maybe the following hints will help. If it's the machine that I'm thinking of, the monitor board connects the processor and bus boards. I.E. can't functin without it. If this is the case, or if you have any monochrome board, with the EGA installed, and sure that MODE.COM is in the root directory, type MODE CO80 and see if the monitor comes up. You can run a monochrome and color board in the same system, but be sure your ega board is not set for auto switching (will not try to emulate herc.). Having two of the same board or having a cga monitor trying to run off a mono board will not work. In fact the latter may cause the smoke alarm to go off. Tell me what your base system consists of (before ega). Oh, one other thing, make sure the system dip switches are set correctly ( for either color or other...not monochrome) when the ega board is in. The 6300 is a strange animal, but it should not be impossible. Msg#:10032 *GENERAL* 11-13-88 16:33:10 From: JUSTIN HOLMES To: MARC D'ALOISIO (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 9987 (ANYONE) THE BASE SYSTEM IS A CGA BOARD WITH (I THINK, I DIDN'T GET ANY MANUALS) A COLOR MONITOR, WHAT SEEMS WEIRD IS THAT IN THE BOOK FOR THE EGA BOARD IT LISTS ALL OF THE CONFIGURATIONS THAT YOU CAN USE AND IT DOESNT HAVE ONE THAT THE EGA BOARD IS SECONDARY WITH A CGA FOR A PRIMARY, IT ALSO DOENST HAVE ONE FOR THE EGA BOARD PRIMARY WITH A CGA INSTALLED, BECAUSE I CAN'T TAKE THE DAMN CGA OUT, IT'S PRACTICALLY BOLTED ONTO THE MOTHERBOARD, I WOULD HAVE TO TAKE THE WHOLE MOTHERBOARD OUT, AND I DON'T KNOW IF THE CGA'S NEEDED TO GENERATE THE DISPLAY OR SOMETHING, ARE I.B.M.'S LIKE THAT? THE CGA BEING PLUGGED INTO THE MOTHERBOARD ON SO MANY PLACES, WILL THE EGA BE ABLE TO WORK, IT ONLY HOOKS IN IN ONE SPOT!? PLEASE HELP. I'LL TRY AND GET BACK TO YOU NEXT WEEKEND. LATER! Msg#:10045 *GENERAL* 11-13-88 22:28:15 From: MARC D'ALOISIO To: JUSTIN HOLMES (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 10032 (ANYONE) Color and color is not a possible combination..there will be conflicts. The only thing you could do at this point is get a 6300 monochrome board, install it and then the ega using the MODE command to bring up the color monitor. No, IBM type machines are not like that. The AT&T machine uses the monitor board to connect the mother and cpu boards to make the footprint smaller (at least that's the only reason that I can think of). I'm not sure if you could make your own buss connector to eliminate the video board, but you could call AT&T to ask them. The other alternative is to sell the AT&T machine ........:). . Marc P.S. let me know how you make out. Msg#:10101 *GENERAL* 11-15-88 14:23:03 From: NEIL CHERRY To: MARC D'ALOISIO (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 9987 (ANYONE) call 1-800-922-0354 and give them your serial number. Tell them that you have a question with your 6300 and an ega board and they will try to get youto the PC6300 team. Good luck and be patient. NJC Msg#:10105 *GENERAL* 11-15-88 17:20:43 From: MARC D'ALOISIO To: NEIL CHERRY (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 10101 (ANYONE) Good idea ... hope Justin Holmes reads it. (It's his problem). Msg#:10394 *GENERAL* 11-24-88 08:12:10 From: JUSTIN HOLMES To: MARC D'ALOISIO (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 10045 (ANYONE) I gave the AT&T service hotline a call and the guy told me that to get it to work I'd have to buy a disabler chip for the CGA, and then there's some company that makes a 'Fix Kit' for the PC 6300 for $45. And he wasn't even sure if it would work. He said the machine's not designed to support EGA. He said I could also try the AT&T EGA( it's probably not even IBM EGA compatible) for $500. I called the Thomson hotline and they told me that there's an article in, I think it was Feb Pc Computing that he said. It doesn't sound like I've ever heard of it before. But I'll still try looking for a copy. What a bitch! I'm sure AT&T is too goddamn lazy to make this thing more IBM compatible. It would be hard for me to sell it and get an IBM because my mom works for AT&T so she gets it repaired for free(which is probably worth it right there.) besides, I like it. it's a powerful machine and benchmarked about 28% faster than an IBM XT/Turbo in turbo mode. Which is pretty good. anyway, I don't know what I'm going to do, if you(or anyone) can locate a copy of that magazine( the only thing I'm sure about in the name is february and PC. If anyone has magazines that they think might have it. please check. the guy said the article is about a page long. i gotta go, thanks and later! Justin Msg#:10399 *GENERAL* 11-24-88 12:13:46 From: MARC D'ALOISIO To: JUSTIN HOLMES (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 10394 (ANYONE) If it is in fact PC COMPUTING, you can get in touch with them at: ....P.O. Box 58229 ....Boulder, Colorado 80321-8229. Or (617)270-0300 OR (303)447-9330 Good luck Msg#:10408 *GENERAL* 11-25-88 00:29:55 From: JACK PERGAL To: JUSTIN HOLMES (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 10394 (ANYONE) There's an AT&T National Fidonet Echo, if you could find a bbs that carries it you could probably get an answer to your questions, the echoes are good for this kind of stuff . Jack Msg#:10476 *GENERAL* 11-26-88 20:18:51 From: JUSTIN HOLMES To: MARC D'ALOISIO (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 10399 (ANYONE) THANKS A LOT! Justin Msg#:10477 *GENERAL* 11-26-88 20:19:35 From: JUSTIN HOLMES To: JACK PERGAL (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 10408 (ANYONE) THANKS! Justin Msg#: 9979 *GENERAL* 11-11-88 23:33:04 From: ANDREAS DESSOFF To: ALL Subj: PL/M SOURCE I have heard in the past of the existence of a PL/M compiler for micros (PL/M is supposedly a micro version of IBM's mainframe PL/I language), but I have no idea who wrote the compiler and/or sells it. I would be gratefull for any hints as to how to find a compiler to buy, or any other information about the subject. The compiler (and the generated code) should run on IBM PC type machines. Thanks in advance! . . . . . . . . . . . . . Andy. Msg#: 9982 *GENERAL* 11-12-88 03:29:52 From: BILL KURY To: KEN DAVIDSON (Rcvd) Subj: A SIMPLE YET COMPLICATED QUESTION Hi Ken! First I would like to say that I think you fellows are doing a great job with the circuit cellar! Next, a little insight to who I am. I am a hardware technologist working here in Vancouver as a systems integrator for satellite groundstations. My personal interests are in the field of robotics and it is here that my question lies. From what I have read you seem to be quite a talented software sort, here is where I could use your expertise. "Karl" my paper robot is to the point where I must decide on a micro to use. I have studied quite a few and have narrowed it down to a couple. For a final selection I need to know how long each task will take and how many tasks I can run before overloading the capabilties of the micro. The big problem here is that I have no experience to draw from, so a haven't a rule of thumb to measure with. I was wondering if you might? Msg#: 9986 *GENERAL* 11-12-88 09:39:11 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: BILL KURY (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 9982 (A SIMPLE YET COMPLICATED QUESTION) Well, that question leaves so many variables unanswered that an entire book could be written to answer it. I would say that if all you want to do is have the micro control three or four motors on the robot (with the help of dedicated drivers, especially if they're stepper motors), scan a control keypad, and maybe flash some lights, just about anything will work. If it also has to do ultrasonic ranging, speech synthesis, and voice recognition, then you're starting to tax things. In any case, I think just about any micro will work if the control program is written in assembly language. Start off getting the basics working, then slowly add features. If the processor starts to get bogged down, then it's time to off-load some of the work onto dedicated chips or another processor. For example, you can interface each key on the control keypad directly to a bit on a port on the processor. Then it's up to the processor to scan the keypad, reject key bounce, and decode which key was pressed. Simple from a hardware standpoint, more complicated in software. If the processor can't handle the load, then use a dedicated keyboard controller chip that simply presents the processor with a single code any time a key is pressed. More hardware, but trivial software. If you want to get into assembly language multitasking, a two-part article starting in issue #7 (Jan/Feb) of INK describes a multitasking executive for the HD64180 (specifically, the BCC180). You can write separate tasks to handle each motor, the keypad, or whatever, and each will run independently of the rest. It would ideal for your application and would simplify the software. Msg#:10002 *GENERAL* 11-12-88 16:58:48 From: DALE REID To: ALL Subj: PHONE LINE PHILTERS I have seen $19 gizmos adverstised that you can conveniently plug your modem into, not to avert Zeus's strike, but clean up some of the garbage that is lurking out here in the boonies. Anyone know of a similar, non-copywrited,(FREE) schematic on how to roll your own? If I can save $19, I will do it. Thanks Dale Msg#:10004 *GENERAL* 11-12-88 19:18:58 From: DAVID CURRIER To: EVERYONE AND ANYONE ELSE... Subj: IBM PCJR I have an IBM PCjr and I am looking for some other jr users. If there are any out there or if anyone knows anyone with one leave me a message. David Currier Coventry,CT Msg#:10009 *GENERAL* 11-12-88 23:50:51 From: THOMAS BUCHANAN To: ALL Subj: ANDRE PERRAULT For many years I did business with a classical music ordering service which sent out detailed monthly brochures, which called itself: Andre Perrault, Ltd. PO Box 5629 Virginia Beach, VA 23455 ords & CD's, and after placing an order recordings would "drift in" over a period of months. (One's credit card was immediately billed, however.) Over the years they have run up a signifigant debt with me, however, and I can't seem to reach them. (I lost their phone numbers and nei- ther WATS or Virginia Beach information can provide these numbers.) My mail has been received by them, without response, and of course the illustrated brochures have ceased coming. ome of these people a response on Easyplex (71445,1036) will be greatly appreciated. (Responses on CEFORUM are all too quickly deleted.) Thank you for your help. Msg#:10013 *GENERAL* 11-13-88 02:22:18 From: PETE DOMINGUEZ To: EDDIE WHITE (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 77 (X-10) On the subject of writing to X10, do you or Steve have the address? I for one will write, but I don't know their address. Thanks in advance. Pete Dominguez ... Msg#:10063 *GENERAL* 11-14-88 09:48:30 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: PETE DOMINGUEZ (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 10013 (X-10) The original discussion that you'd be writing to them about is now moot. Since then, they've come out with a two-way module that both transmits and receives codes to and from the power line. I wrote an article for issue #5 of Circuit Cellar INK that describes the module and how to use it. X-10's address is listed in the ads that they have placed in every issue of INK since #3. Msg#:10238 *GENERAL* 11-20-88 10:44:28 From: PETE DOMINGUEZ To: KEN DAVIDSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 10063 (X-10) Thanks again Ken. I haven't been on this board in a while, but I appreciate your reply. Pete ... Msg#:10018 *GENERAL* 11-13-88 10:10:25 From: PHILIPPE WETTERWALD To: ANYHELP? Subj: ULTRASYNC MONITOR I own a Ultrasync Princeton monitor and I wonder if anyone could help me in the following. When large areas of block colors (as in a spreadsheet as example) are on screen (pop up) the other color change a little bit. The most clear example is when a light gray cell is on screen and the rest turns blue the light screen turns greenish. Has anyone experienceed the same problem? Or has anyone measured some tube voltages that might help me to locate the problem. Thanks, philippe. Msg#:10177 *GENERAL* 11-17-88 22:27:58 From: JOHN MUCHOW To: PHILIPPE WETTERWALD (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 10018 (ULTRASYNC MONITOR) I also own an Ultrasync, which board are you using? That might be part of the problem. Have you also checked any driving software or setup options that might influence color, resolution, etc? John Msg#:10203 *GENERAL* 11-18-88 21:23:23 From: PHILIPPE WETTERWALD To: JOHN MUCHOW (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 10177 (ULTRASYNC MONITOR) Thanks for the answer, apparently you do not have the problem! The board is a EGA/VGA form Novas (now discontinued) with TTL output only. I observed the problem the first time when using Flight Simulator (the new one), the "sky" was changing of color when a menu pops up, and resume normal color when the menu vanishes! I observed then this problem what ever was the soft. Any ideas? *l Msg#:10445 *GENERAL* 11-25-88 23:30:07 From: JOHN MUCHOW To: PHILIPPE WETTERWALD (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 10203 (ULTRASYNC MONITOR) Sounds like it's the board to me, I've been using MS-FS 3.0 for a month now and have had no problems. I don't think it's your monitor, I can't believe the problem would be that specific. Have you tried substituting a different board into your sys? Msg#:10684 *GENERAL* 11-29-88 20:50:06 From: PHILIPPE WETTERWALD To: JOHN MUCHOW (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 10445 (ULTRASYNC MONITOR) I think you might be right. The next thing I have to do is to change the board and test the system again. Thanks. Q: Do you have an Ultrasync? Msg#:10934 *GENERAL* 12-04-88 17:10:36 From: JOHN MUCHOW To: PHILIPPE WETTERWALD (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 10684 (ULTRASYNC MONITOR) Yes, I do. I'm using it on a 12Mhz AT clone with a Paradise VGA Plus board. FANTASTIC monitor, no problems so far!! Msg#:10019 *GENERAL* 11-13-88 11:59:07 From: STEVE SMITH To: MATTHEW LEVINE (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 8999 (RS232 CABLE LENGTH) Question relates to claim that I am communicating between two computes at over 100K baud through about 80 feet of twisted pair cable. The answer is that the connection is direct. Pin 2 of computer A is wired direct to pin 3 of computer B and vice versa. Pin 7 of A (signal ground) is connected to the DB25 shell on computer B and vice versa, but I expect straight pin 7 to pin 7 would work as well. There are no modems or power sources other that the COM ports on the two computers (One is an AT clone with an AST Advantage board for the com ports. the other is an XT clone wiht a no-name clone multifuntion board). Several software packages work in this environment including Brooklyn Bridge, Desk Link, and Many Link. Reply has been deleted Msg#:10025 *GENERAL* 11-13-88 12:31:02 From: STEVE SMITH To: KEN DAVIDSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 9062 (GIF PICTURE FORMAT) I tooo have time problems. I have the basic GIF structure down, and have LZW compression working on text files. I still need to work on bit packing, but haven't done anything for about a month. Will leave youa meswsage when I have something to test Msg#:10035 *GENERAL* 11-13-88 18:00:14 From: DON MEYERS To: JOSEPH PUGLISI (Rcvd) Subj: 6300 MEMORY JOSEPH, I don't know if you ever found the information on the AT&T 6300 to expand it to 640kb, but this is out of my manual **expensive**, maybe it will help. DIPSW-0 SYS MEM SW1, SW2, SW3, SW4 --------------------------- 128KB 0 1 1 1 128K-MOTHER BOARD 256KB 1 0 1 1 256K-MOTHER BOARD 384KB 0 0 1 1 256K-MOTHER BOARD, 128K EXP BOARD 512KB 1 1 0 1 256K-MOTHER BOARD, 256K EXP BOARD 640KB 0 1 0 1 256K-MOTHER BOARD, 384K EXP BOARD 512KB 1 1 1 0 512K-MOTHER BOARD BANK 0 640KB 0 1 1 0 512K-MOTHER BOARD BANK 0, 128K BANK 1 640KB 0 1 0 0 128K-MOTHER BOARD BANK 0, 512K BANK 1 BTW - The manual is: Reference Manual AT&T Personal Computer 245-450-105IS Also, if you ever intend to make the parallel port bi-directional you might leave me a message, IRQ7 is incorrectly wired. Fortunately is is correctable. What can you expect for a modified 8000z board! Msg#:10043 *GENERAL* 11-13-88 21:03:32 From: BRUCE WEBB To: KEITH TUCHOLSKI (Rcvd) Subj: 8031 STUFF }iKeith, The board I have designed is a sort of minimum 8031 sub- system. It has an 8031, address de-multiplexer, EPROM, and a MAX-232 level converter on-board. The main idea is to be able to re-use the board and the design for different projects. Everytime I want a new 8031 project, why wire-wrap and debug the controller part again? This way I can concentrate on the new part. And, since the basic design of every project is the same, some of the same software can be used on each. I am willing to make "professional quality" boards available, if there is a market for them. I've built about a half-dozen, so far, by etching them at home and sold I couple to people who are interested. As far as the 8031 assembly language booklet goes, there seems to be a void in the documentation area for that processor. I took some of my own notes and some info from INTEL and put it into a readable form. The whole thing is a little over 40 pages, and while I haven't had any feedback, yet, I think it could help make things clearer for people who are interested in the 8031. I should be uploading a copy as soon as I get some feedback from some folks who are helping me look for bugs. Later, Bruce Msg#:10050 *GENERAL* 11-14-88 00:59:41 From: GARY WIEGAND To: GENERAL Subj: TWO KEYBOARDS ON A PC A friend of mine produces slide shows using a control prograon a PC or AT and has asked me to hook up two monitors and keyboards to one PC so he can edit the slides at either of two locations. The monitors are no problem. I know that during POST the keyboard returns a status code, and I know the logic states of the clock and data lines, but not their timing. I wonder if the CPU would be confused by receiving 2 POST status codes, and if one keyboard would be confused by the other's output. I want to design a circuit that will lock out the idle keyboard during the other's output. Does someone have the timing info, a source for a pre-built adapter, or experience that I would say I am worried over nothing. Thanks for clues. Msg#:10077 *GENERAL* 11-14-88 20:18:22 From: JOE BRIGGS To: ANYONE Subj: OS/9 Does anyone out there know if Microware's OS/9 has been ported to a MAC II? If so, who sells it, and for how much? Thanks. - Joe Briggs 603 429-2895. Msg#:10102 *GENERAL* 11-15-88 14:30:09 From: NEIL CHERRY To: JOE BRIGGS (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 10077 (OS/9) I remeber hearing that it was ported to the mac/amiga/atari ST, but that was before the mac II. Call microware and see if they can help. NJC Msg#:10295 *GENERAL* 11-21-88 14:59:23 From: JOE BRIGGS To: JOE BRIGGS (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 10077 (OS/9) Thanks for the reply. Contacting Mary Jo, Microware sales, she indicated that Digvy Targvan in Austraillia ported it to the Amaiga. No luck yet on the MacII. Joe. Msg#:10080 *GENERAL* 11-14-88 22:02:53 From: STEVE MANN To: ALL Subj: BSR RS-232 CONTROLLERS Does anyone know the details of the RS-232 protocol for the BSR computer controllers (Model CP-290) I remember seeing a BASIC program somewhere that talked to it. Msg#:10095 *GENERAL* 11-15-88 08:43:11 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: STEVE MANN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 10080 (BSR RS-232 CONTROLLERS) The latest version of X-10's "Computer Interface" comes with a very complete booklet that describes exactly how to talk to the interface from within your own program. If you didn't get the book when you bought the box, try calling them to see if you can get it seperately. X-10's number is (201) 784-9700. Msg#:10085 *GENERAL* 11-15-88 05:25:52 From: VIC FRAENCKEL To: ALL Subj: GPS/GLOBAL POSITIONING SYSTEM is anyone contemplating developing/building a gps receiver. the current generation of receivers is frightfully expensive. I would like to hear from anyone trying to develope a pactical receiver. leave me a message here. Vic Fraenckel Msg#:10086 *GENERAL* 11-15-88 05:29:02 From: VIC FRAENCKEL To: ALL Subj: HAND HELD DIGITAL COMPASS autohelm is currently selling a small 6x2x0.5 inch hand-held digital flux-gate compass with a stopwatch feature and memory to store compass readings. the cost is approximately $120. vic fraenckel Msg#:10088 *GENERAL* 11-15-88 08:01:26 From: MICHAEL POLAK To: KEN DAVIDSON (Rcvd) Subj: X-10 Regarding the x-10 unit that receives as well as transmits module codes, the company is not sure when this unit will go into production. This information was giving to be by X-10 two weeks ago. As far as I you still can not get a unit. Reply has been deleted Msg#:10114 *GENERAL* 11-15-88 22:37:15 From: FIDEL GRUBER To: ED NISLEY (Rcvd) Subj: 386 SOFTWARES HI, STEVE I GOT AN 386 MACHINE AND I WOULD LIKE TO GET THE BEST OF IT SO I WINDOW SHOPPING AND I GOT A PROBLEM OR PERHAPS A MISUNDERSTANDING ABOUT THE TYPE OF SOFTWARE I SHOULD USE. WELL I ASK IN MANY PLACES ABOUT THIS TWO SOFTWARE DESKVIEW W/386 MEMORY MANAGER AND 386 WINDOWS. SOME PEOPLE TOLL ME THAT THEY ARE THE SAME, SOME SAID THAT THERE ARE DIFFERENT, BUT DESQVIEW IS BETTER THEN SOMEBODY ELSE SAID THAT WINDOWS ARE BETTER. WELL I GOT SO MANY DIFFERENTS ANSWER THAT I DON'T WHICH ONE TO BUY. MY MACHINE HAD NOW 2MB AND I AM GOING TO EXPANDE TO 4MB SOON SO MEMORY IS NO PROBLEM. THANKS FOR TAKING THE TIME TO READ MY PROBLEM RGDS F. GRUBER Msg#:10666 *GENERAL* 11-29-88 20:20:37 From: ED NISLEY To: FIDEL GRUBER Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 10114 (386 SOFTWARES) Let me throw some fuel on the 386 fire... I've used Desqview and toyed with Windows (1.01, not the /386 version) on an IBM PS/2 Model 80-111. Although Desqview/386 and Windows/386 both attempt to add a multitasking, windowing layer on top of ordinary DOS, they do it in two radically different ways. Desqview/386 (which is actually two separate products: an expanded/extended memory manager called QEMM and the Desqview code proper) will work reasonably well with existing DOS applications. Windows/386 works best with applications written specifically to use the added features. It can run ordinary DOS applications, but nothing fancy happens. Opinion: like the proverbial singing pig, it's a wonder that it can sing at all. You can't criticize it for not being able to handle arpeggios. Desqview is the better buy if you want to multitask existing programs, which is probably the case. Windows is the better buy if you think OS/2 and the Presentation Manager will be the wave of the future, because it looks a lot like that. Make any sense? Incidentally, rumors from a Very Reliable Source indicate that OS/2 with Presentation Manager will require about 5 MB just to get started. Keep your wallet open... Msg#:10129 *GENERAL* 11-16-88 10:09:07 From: KEN MUNKHOLM To: JUSTIN HOLMES (Rcvd) Subj: PC6300/EGA Justin, I too have a PC 6300 and wanted to add EGA to it. From Vol 7 #4 of PC Magazine page 27 I paraphrase. First you need to know what version Bios your system uses. This is shown during the POST. It must be V 1.43 or later. If you do not have this bios then you must order a new one. ( AT&T part number 105203780 $35) Second you must disable the controller on the board. You can't just pull it because the mother board gets power and other signals via the display adapter. One version of controller can be disabled by jumper settings. Another controller has to have a chip replaced. Another version must be pulled and a Video Bridge Adapter installed ( AT&T pn 405067281 $58) Remove the cover of your machine and call the AT&T technicial support hotline @ 800-922-0354. Third, you will need a different monitor as the AT&T color monitor uses a different scan rate than for EGA. There is an on-line bulliten board run by AT&T for AT&T **only** computers. Your questions are answered by the AT&T techs themselves. the numbers are 201-769-6397 201-769-5616 201-668-8573 One board, Three nodes. As a sideline, in every Royal Canadian Mounted Police (Canada's national police force) telecom centre they have at least two Olivetti M24 units that are used for data capture and traffic logging. ( The AT&T is an Olivetti unit in a white case) I hope this has helped you some. Ken Msg#:10395 *GENERAL* 11-24-88 08:18:53 From: JUSTIN HOLMES To: KEN MUNKHOLM (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 10129 (PC6300/EGA) THANKS! I called AT&T a wekk ago and he told me about the article, so i've been looking for it for a week,THANKS! Justin Msg#:10135 *GENERAL* 11-16-88 14:44:42 From: WAYNE J. CLEWELL To: ALL Subj: ANSI EGA I AM TRYING AN EGA MONITOR FOR THE FIRST TIME. FINDING THE ADVANTAGES TO BE MOST REWARDING WHEN IT COMES TO C.A.D. HAS ONLY INCREASED MY DESIRE TO KEEP USING THE EGA SYSTEM. ON OCCASION WHEN AT DIFFERENT LOCATIONS, IT'S NECESSARY TO USE THE EGA SYSTEM WITH ONE THATS STRICTLY CGA. I HAVE NO PROBLEMS WITH THAT HOWEVER, THE INITIAL BOOT USES ANSI SYSTEM CODES. NOT BEING ON THE TOP OF ANSI SYSTEM DOCUMENTATION HAS GIVEN ME A BAD TIME WHEN IT COMES TO GRAPHIC STANDARDS. IS THERE A ANSI SYSTEM DOC FILE SOMEWHERE THAT GIVES STANDARDS FOR EGA SYSTEMS. Msg#:10137 *GENERAL* 11-16-88 15:21:27 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: WAYNE J. CLEWELL (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 10135 (ANSI EGA) Responding to ANSI control codes has nothing to do with the display adapter you have installed. There is a device driver called ANSI.SYS that comes with PCDOS. You tell the system to load this driver into memory on boot up by adding a line to the file called CONFIG.SYS. First, make sure the disk you're using to boot the system has the ANSI.SYS file on it. Next add the line "DEVICE=ANSI.SYS" to the CONFIG.SYS file on the same disk. If there isn't a file called that, create one with just that one line in it. Now reboot the system using that disk, the driver will be loaded into memory, and you should have a display that responds to ANSI control codes. Msg#:10157 *GENERAL* 11-17-88 03:15:48 From: WAYNE J. CLEWELL To: KEN DAVIDSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 10137 (ANSI EGA) KEN; SORRY, I SHOULD HAVE BEEN MORE SPECIFIC ABOUT MY PROBLEM. I DO USE DEVICE=ANSI.SYS, IN MY CONFIG.SYS FILE. THE PROBLEM I'M HAVING COMES FROM THE RELATIVE ADDRESSING BETWEEN CGA, AND EGA. NORMALLY I CALL FOR A BLACK SCREEN WITH A BLUE BORDER. WITH MY EGA SYSTEM I ALSO COME UP WITH THE SAME SCREEN, BUT THERE IS AN ADDITIONAL OUTSIDE BLACK BORDER. THIS IS WHAT I WANT TO GET RID OF. I PURCHASED A COPY OF DOS POWER TOOLS, IN THIS BOOK THERE IS A PROGRAM CALLED KBORDER, WHICH ALLOWS ME TO CHANGE THE OUTSIDE BLACK BORDER TO BLUE. THE ONLY PROBLEM IS IT'S NECESSARY TO CONTROL IT MANUALLY, ANSI TO MY KNOWLEDGE DOESN'T LET ME CONTROL THAT BORDER. MAYBE I'M ADDRESSING THE PROBLEM IN THE WRONG LIGHT, BUT I'M NOT SURE. IF YOU CAN HELP I'D APPRECIATE IT. -- WAYNE -- Msg#:10166 *GENERAL* 11-17-88 09:19:25 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: WAYNE J. CLEWELL (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 10157 (ANSI EGA) In that case, I can't help you. There are others on this board much more versed in IBM nuances. Anyone else want to jump in? Msg#:10136 *GENERAL* 11-16-88 15:01:54 From: WAYNE J. CLEWELL To: JOHN COOK (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 4622 (BIOS EXPANSION) JOHN USING DEBUG TO ACCESS YOUR ADDITIONAL EPROM IS THE BEST WAY TO SOLVE YOUR PROBLEM. THE ONLY THING THAT YOU NEED TO KNOW IS EXACTLY WHERE THE ADDITIONAL PROM SOCKET IS LOCATED, AS FAR AS YOUR SYSTEMS MEMORY MAP IS CONCERNED. SOME SYSTEMS, AND I'VE COME ACROSS A FEW, DON'T USE MEMORY MAPPING BUT USE INSTEAD, EXTERNAL INTERRUPT LINES, IN THAT CASE YOU NEED TO KNOW WHAT INTERRUPT NUMBER THE SOCKET IS SET FOR. YOU DIDN'T SPECIFY WHAT TYPE OF COMPUTER YOU HAVE SO IT'S DIFFICULT TO GIVE YOU ANY KIND OF IN DEPTH INFORMATION. I PERSONALLY LIKE THE 80286 COMPUTERS AND HAVE FOUND ONE OF THE BEST SOURCES OF INFORMATION, COMING FROM JAMECO ELECTRONICS, THEIR JE286M TECHNICAL MANUAL ABOUT COVERS ANYTHING YOU NEED TO KNOW ABOUT THE 286 STYLE SYSTEMS. IF YOU COULD BE MORE SPECIFIC ABOUT YOUR SYSTEM, I'D BE GLAD TO PASS ON WHAT INFORMATION I COULD -- WAYNE -- Msg#:10200 *GENERAL* 11-18-88 19:00:49 From: JOHN COOK To: WAYNE J. CLEWELL (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 10136 (BIOS EXPANSION) Thanks! My computer is a 12Mhz XT clone made in Tawain and sold in this country through Computer Mail Order in Pennsylvania. It uses a V20 for CPU and is supposedly specially made to take advantage of V20 architecture. Fortunately its still 100% IBM compatable. It has one 40 pin socket for an EPROM and so far I havent touched that. Im thinking strongly of getting a set of clone XT schematics so I will have some idea of where things are in there. It has 640 K memory standard and no clock on the motherboard. Thats about all I know so far. I did get a program to decompile the BIOS into assembler source code but since its a copywrited program I cant upload it or the source code here (I already asked). Also, thanks for the tip about Jameco, I didnt know they provided technical manuals for computers. Thanks again, -JDC Msg#:10468 *GENERAL* 11-26-88 16:42:12 From: ALBERT MILLER To: JOHN COOK (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 4622 (BIOS EXPANSION) If you are using a IBM PC computer and want to use the one available socket; The address select for that socket is F4000H. You can use several eproms. For example; to use the whole address space (F4000 - F57F) you need a Eprom that is compatable with the pin layout. You can use the MOTROLOA 68764 24 pin EPROM, which is pin compatable with the roms used in the IBM PC. Another Eprom you might decide to use is a 2732A. It is only a 4k eprom, and the pin location on the chip are slightly different on the cs and address# pin. You can use this chip but the address space will be split in half. (addresses are F4000H-F47FFH to F5000-F57FF. After installing the eprom, say a blank one that contains all FFH, you could use debug program and do a dump command (d f400:0 ) and you should see FFH's. After your convinced that it is working ok, and decide to but a active program in the EPROM, your going to have to find a way to access your program. One way is to use some unused int's (in zero page vector space) and have your program just call a interrupt. (but you must have a way of setting your int number in the vector space). One way to set the int vector is to have a file spec in the autoexec.bat file and have it execute the file (which when executed sets the vector). There are I sure hundreds of ways you could dream up. Good Luck. Albert Miller Msg#:10741 *GENERAL* 11-30-88 21:33:23 From: JOHN COOK To: ALBERT MILLER (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 10468 (BIOS EXPANSION) Hey thanks, that eprom address is helpful. -JDC Msg#:10148 *GENERAL* 11-16-88 22:24:56 From: ANDREAS DESSOFF To: THE MANAGEMENT AND ALL Subj: PL/M COMPILER If anyone has any info on this, I would still like to find out what company (if any) makes/sells a PL/M compiler for IBM type PCs (PL/M is supposedly a micro version of IBM's mainframe PL/I language). I do believe that the language/compiler exist but would be grateful for any hints. Does anyone know of some kind of comprehensive software catalogue, or have one to look this up? Thanks in advance . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Andy. Msg#:10211 *GENERAL* 11-19-88 11:03:29 From: JAMES S HARRISON To: ANDREAS DESSOFF (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 10148 (PL/M COMPILER) Andy, I believe Intel sells a PL/M compiler. I have seen (but not used) it. Hope this helps. James Msg#:10404 *GENERAL* 11-24-88 20:52:59 From: ANDREAS DESSOFF To: JAMES S HARRISON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 10211 (PL/M COMPILER) Thanks, James. I was beginning to despair as I could not find out anything. Yesterday I checked a computer store's 2-volume catalogue and found no mention of PL/M. I was beginning to think that it had to be a figment of my imagination. Thanks again. Msg#:10154 *GENERAL* 11-17-88 02:20:56 From: LUCRETIUS DUMAGUING To: ALL Subj: BUSINESS Who is the present CEO for Commodore Business Machines, Inc.? And what other corporations are under it or connected with it? Msg#:10174 *GENERAL* 11-17-88 20:04:59 From: JOSEPH FREEMAN To: ALL Subj: PROMPRO-8 HELP NEEDED Help! I am the new owner of a Logical Devices prom programmer. It is the prompro-8. I have the AR-1 adapter and configuration modules 1,4,5 and 6. Does anyone know what modules are needed for which chips? The unit supports about 25 different eproms but I don't know which modules to use. Does anyone know the pinouts for the other modules, I assume there are at least two others (2 and 3). Has anyone ever used one of these? . Oh yeah, if anyone knows the company address, I would appreceiate it if they would tell me. Msg#:10179 *GENERAL* 11-18-88 00:01:23 From: BOB MAHONEY To: JOSEPH FREEMAN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 10174 (PROMPRO-8 HELP NEEDED) Joe, I have the same kind of programmer and the documentation. you are missing CNF # 2 and 12. There doesn't appear to be a CNF #3. 1. 2716 = CNF #1 DEV Code 01 2. 2732 = CNF #2 DEV CODE 02 3. 2764 = CNF #5 DEV CODE 05 4. 27128 = CNF #5 DEV CODE 07 5. 27256L (LOWER HALF) = CNF #12 DEV CODE 12 6. 27256U (UPPER HALF) = CNF #12 DEV CODE 13 These are for the 25/21 voltage eproms only, the device code differs for the 'A' suffix parts. I also have diagrams for all the CNF modules as well as instructions for increasing the programmers memory. There are dozens of additional device listings, all grouped by manufacturer. The above are from the Intel list. Some of the other manufacturers listings use the same parameters, some are different. If you want more info just let me know. Logical Devices Dept. A 1321E N.W. 65 Place FT. Lauderdale, FL 33309 800 331 7766 or 305 974 0967 Bob Msg#:10180 *GENERAL* 11-18-88 00:04:12 From: BOB MAHONEY To: JOSEPH FREEMAN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 10174 (PROMPRO-8 HELP NEEDED) Joe, I hope you can make out the list in my other reply, I can't seem to get the formatting to work out the way I want it to in this editor no matter what I try. If something isn't clear, just ask again. Bob. Msg#:10207 *GENERAL* 11-19-88 08:46:12 From: JOSEPH FREEMAN To: BOB MAHONEY (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 10179 (PROMPRO-8 HELP NEEDED) Thanks for the great response. I had finally figured out how to get the list of proms to come up but still had no idea what configurators went with what proms. Do 8751, 8748 and 8755 need different configurator modules? I talked to Logical Devices and they say they will send me a manual. That's pretty good service. Msg#:10331 *GENERAL* 11-22-88 17:38:05 From: BOB MAHONEY To: JOSEPH FREEMAN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 10207 (PROMPRO-8 HELP NEEDED) Joe The 8751 uses adapter AR-1, CNF #5, DEV CODE 18. The 8748 uses adapter AR-8, no CNF needed, DEV CODE 14. 8755A will use adapter AR-5, no CNF needed, DEV CODE 16. 8748H is same as 8748 above, but DEV CODE is 24. Bob. Msg#:10338 *GENERAL* 11-22-88 22:06:28 From: JOSEPH FREEMAN To: BOB MAHONEY (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 10331 (PROMPRO-8 HELP NEEDED) Thanks for the fast reply. I am still waiting on my manual. The unit comes with a 40 and 28 pin sockets. Can the 40 pin socket program anything without an adapter (AR-x) module? Sorry about so many questions. Msg#:10582 *GENERAL* 11-28-88 18:09:16 From: BOB MAHONEY To: JOSEPH FREEMAN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 10338 (PROMPRO-8 HELP NEEDED) Hi Joe, Sorry to take so long on this reply but I was away for the holidays. As far as I can see, the 40 pin socket can't program anything with out an adapter module. However, my manual is 4 - 5 years old so that may have changed. Don't worry about the number of questions, I'm glad to help. Bob Msg#:10855 *GENERAL* 12-02-88 21:08:31 From: JOSEPH FREEMAN To: BOB MAHONEY (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 10582 (PROMPRO-8 HELP NEEDED) It seems that the 40 pin socket is for a simulator cable that allows the you to download code to the prompro and use it as an eprom emulator so you don't have to blow proms. Msg#:10175 *GENERAL* 11-17-88 21:21:41 From: PHILIPPE WETTERWALD To: ED NISLEY (Rcvd) Subj: MONITOR COLOR ALTERATION Dear steve,I own an Ultrasync Princeton monitor and I am experiencing some (minor ) problems. The color (tint) of text or graphics are altered when other parts of the screen are changing. As example, if I have a part being light gray and suddenly a pop-up blue menu appears the light gray part turns greenish. How could I locate the problem, if it can be corrected. Thanks, Philippe. Msg#:10667 *GENERAL* 11-29-88 20:21:20 From: ED NISLEY To: PHILIPPE WETTERWALD (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 10175 (MONITOR COLOR ALTERATION) It sounds like that monitor has problems in the power supply. As you change the duty cycle of the color guns, the supply changes and that make the rest of the screen change... which shouldn't happen. There's a faint chance that the problem is on the card, but that's easy to test... try another card with the same software. If at all possible, try the card in your PC so you can keep everything else constant. It would be nice if the card was the same as the one you're using, but in a pinch anything will do. Alternatively, use the monitor on another system and then swap your card into it. Take that devil back to the store (perhaps dragging your system along to show it's not your card) and get it fixed. It ought not work like that! Msg#:10686 *GENERAL* 11-29-88 20:55:01 From: PHILIPPE WETTERWALD To: ED NISLEY (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 10667 (MONITOR COLOR ALTERATION) I do have some "blooming" too that I did not mention. I will try to track down the causes. Thanks. Msg#:10909 *GENERAL* 12-04-88 08:34:58 From: ED NISLEY To: PHILIPPE WETTERWALD (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 10686 (MONITOR COLOR ALTERATION) Lots of monitors have a _little_ blooming, but if you've got a lot it's one more reason to suspect the monitor instead of the card... Msg#:10197 *GENERAL* 11-18-88 18:30:04 From: JIM FALIVENO To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: RASTER TO VECTOR CONVERSION I am an old Digital Group buddy. We spoke on the phone in the past i guess i'm an old hacker...sound familiar? I have been fooling with scanning in line drawings and trying to convert to CAD vector drawings. the big problem seems to be recognizing arcs. Any info you may have to pass along or if you can refer me to someone, I'd appreciate it. It's a pretty facinating subject. You touched around the subject with your imaging project and the edge detection. Just got my first issue of Ink. nice magazine! so long for now Jim Faliveno. Msg#:10202 *GENERAL* 11-18-88 20:13:42 From: STEVEN HARGUS To: ANYONE Subj: RBGI-TO-NTSC CONVERTER This is probably a stupid question, but does anyone know where I can get a reprint of the RBGI-to-NTSC converter project? I missed the first four issues of Circuit Cellar Ink and I am SICK of using EGA on a monochrome monitor. Msg#:10248 *GENERAL* 11-20-88 15:14:21 From: STEVE CIARCIA To: STEVEN HARGUS (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 10202 (RBGI-TO-NTSC CONVERTER) You can contact Mark Voorhees directly on this BBS or you can order CC INK issue #1 (call the CC INK office number) for $3 (plus $1 first class postage and handling). Mark also offers a kit for the converter. --Steve Msg#:10335 *GENERAL* 11-22-88 20:15:22 From: STEVEN HARGUS To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 10248 (RBGI-TO-NTSC CONVERTER) Steve - Thank you very much for the information. I called the INK offices and they said they were out of issues 1-3 (much to my disappointment). I will, however, contact Mark and order the converter in kit form. I had considered building my own converter using the same chip but it seems much easier to just buy his kit. Thanks again! Msg#:10206 *GENERAL* 11-19-88 02:36:50 From: BILL WHITING To: KEN DAVIDSON (Rcvd) Subj: XEBEC SETUP in the process of moving i have lost the configuration specs for the xebec/shugart hard disk on my sb180. i'm not even exactly sure what i have, but the card says shugart cd9835 and the rom is marked 1610-3g. I hope you can help. thanks. Msg#:10264 *GENERAL* 11-21-88 08:59:54 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: BILL WHITING (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 10206 (XEBEC SETUP) When running HDINIT, select the Xebec 1410 controller, 615 cylinders, 4 heads, 12 us step, and either three or four partitions. This is assuming the hard drive is a Seagate ST225 (I'm pretty sure that's all we ever used with the Shugart board). Msg#:10217 *GENERAL* 11-19-88 14:35:26 From: GREG BELL To: ALL Subj: ALPHANUMERIC DISPLAY CIRCUITRY . I have a 14 segment, 16 digit alphanumeric LED display that I want to use for an output device with an 8031 based project I'm build- ing. But I can't figure out the best circuit to use to control the display. . I'm familiar with the idea of multiplexing, but several questions arise: Should the strobing be controlled by the 8031 that the display is to be hooked up to or should the display circuitry take care of that? In other words, how much of the work should be done by the processor, and how much by the display's controller? Should the display circuit have its own RAM or should it just share the CPU's external RAM somehow? Finally, how do I get the two to "share". If the display has its own RAM, then the processor has to be able to know when the display controller isn't reading that RAM so it can stuff new data into it. The display controller circuitry can't pause for this to take place, since it has to be constantly refreshing the display. . Or, is there a good chip out there that'll take care of all the buffering and refreshing for me? I know Rockwell makes the 10937 and 10957 but those are a little strange (common is Vcc instead of Vss). . GBell Msg#:10471 *GENERAL* 11-26-88 17:03:34 From: JIM NELSON To: GREG BELL (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 10217 (ALPHANUMERIC DISPLAY CIRCUITRY) The decision whether to do display multiplexing is determined by production volume. If you're making only one or two, buy an HP intelligent alphanumeric display module; there are also a lot of rs232/422 ported programmable message displays on the market. If you're going to stamp out thousands or millions, you can make money by investing in an interrupt driven background software task and reduce hardware to a minimum. Tell me your objectives, what else the 8031 has to handle, and how the 16 digit display is organized and I'll point you in the direction I'd follow. I also need to know whether the individual digits are common anode or cathode, and if the non-common sides of the LEDs in each digit are pinned out individually. Msg#:11092 *GENERAL* 12-07-88 07:32:10 From: JIM NELSON To: GREG BELL (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 10217 (ALPHANUMERIC DISPLAY CIRCUITRY) Sounds like you've got a pretty raw LCD unit to control. TECKNIT and PCK Elastomerics manufacture the ZEBRA elastomeric connectors used to connect glass LCDs to the real world. A ZEBRA strip actually resembles a ringed snake; it appears ringed because it is constructed of thin alternating conductive and nonconductive layers of silicon rubber. The connection between closely spaced pads on mated PC boards or substrates depends on the pressure holding the ZEBRA strip conductive rings in contact with pairs of coplanar conductors on the mated board surfaces. Msg#:11093 *GENERAL* 12-07-88 07:34:44 From: JIM NELSON To: GREG BELL (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 10217 (ALPHANUMERIC DISPLAY CIRCUITRY) To produce the relatively low average currents of 2 to 5 mA required by even high efficiency LEDs, with the extremely low duty cycle you're proposing, the currents required are so high ( 0.5 A to 1.0 A ) that you will be limited to single microsecond pulse-widths. Even so, to achieve a flicker free display, each LED must be refreshed at a minimum of 60 HZ, ( 90-100 Hz is better). The refresh period for individual LEDs can be calculated from the product of the overall refresh period and the multiplexing ratio. The display refresh frequency = 60 Hz and your multiplexing ratio = 1:256, so you've got to step through LEDs at 15,360 Hz. This is a period of about 65 microseconds, which doesn't leave the 8051 much time for anything else. 1:8 multiplexing is much more manageable, and yields a maximum duty cycle of 12.5 percent. Multiplying the desired average LED current by eight yields the actual pulsed current you have to provide when multiplexing. I have written a complete description of one solution to your problem: driver design, 8051 interface, and timer 0 interrupt driven background LED refresh process code. All 223 lines of this would be posted here if I hadn't again noticed the CC Ink's BBS copyright notice. I wrote this as a first pass at a tutorial on time division multiplexed LED display technology; in addition to the design I give the reasoning behind my decisions. But I don't really want to give away so flippantly whatever rights are worth keeping. The 82 to 86 machine cycles consumed by the interrupt driven display refresh task, out of the 1792 which elapse between interrupts, amount to less than five percent of the 8051's bandwidth. That should answer the objections of whoever (here) said the 8051 has better things to do than drive a display. In my example, the display is blanked only 48 cycles out of the 1792 between refreshes. So the overall duty cycle of the display will be over 97 percent. An individual LED segment will be powered 12.2 percent of the time, which seems close enough to the optimal 12.5 percent duty cycle possible with 1:8 multiplexing. A simple enhancement to the example code allows you to blink characters at one or two Hz. You can also incorporate an 8 by ? keyboard matrix scanning routine since the scanning addresses are already being generated. A good design would isolate and debounce the keystrokes, and store key presses and key releases as separate events in a queue which a foreground process would monitor. And because we're using a precious resource, a timer, we can't stop here. We should also queue periodic clock ticks as events so that event driven foreground processes can track time. This makes it much easier to handle multi-processing with event driven state machines. I guess the point is that these are related problems in microcontroller design. I can give you a USENET mail address, but for the past several years I have logged that particular UNIX system no more than two or three times per year. Msg#:11105 *GENERAL* 12-07-88 09:43:11 From: STEVE CIARCIA To: JIM NELSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 11092 (ALPHANUMERIC DISPLAY CIRCUITRY) Ed Nisley and I have a moving LED sign (uses 5x8 LED array modules) project in the works. We have enough modules to make a 320 x 200 sign (8'x5' I think) --Steve Msg#:11134 *GENERAL* 12-07-88 19:02:06 From: JIM NELSON To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 11105 (ALPHANUMERIC DISPLAY CIRCUITRY) That sounds pretty expensive! Are you using the same serially linked modules you described in one of your Circuit Cellar (Byte) articles? I know your engineers are top drawer, but if you need any help give me a call. I'm available. Msg#:11151 *GENERAL* 12-08-88 09:54:49 From: STEVE CIARCIA To: JIM NELSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 11134 (ALPHANUMERIC DISPLAY CIRCUITRY) We plan to use 5x8 LED modules (1.5"x 2") that are available from many sources (average about $5-$7 each). Tentatively we plane to make subassemblies (perhaps a PC board unless this becomes a one-of-a-kind project) of 2x8 or 2x16 LED modules. Eash subassembly will have its own 8031 processor. We're still in the planning stages. Regarding your design talents, there is a design contest described in CC INK issue #6. I would say that finalists would have the inside track for working on future joint projects after proving themselves there :-) --Steve Msg#:11305 *GENERAL* 12-11-88 20:00:24 From: JIM NELSON To: GREG BELL (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 10217 (ALPHANUMERIC DISPLAY CIRCUITRY) Greg, I have attached a file to this message. This file contains descriptions of several possible software/hardware solutions to your LED display problem. I've included example 8051 code to handle 1:8 and 1:16 multiplexing. Since it took me a while to write I hope it helps clear up your questions about display multiplexing. *Enclosed File: ledmuxing Msg#:11464 *GENERAL* 12-14-88 06:44:43 From: JIM NELSON To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 11151 (ALPHANUMERIC DISPLAY CIRCUITRY) 64,000 leds are gonna be hungry Steve. At 15 mA average, lighting them all will eat 940 Amps. Geez. Of course if they're more efficient some fraction of that will be adequate. But I presume they need to be visible at some distance since constituents of such a large display. My approach would begin with a call to the LED module manufacturer's apps engineers regarding the possibility of taking advantage of the greater apparent brightness possible when multiplexing and driving LEDs with very high current pulses. I'd aim for a lower average current than DC driving requires for the equivalent brightness. I read something pointing toward this possibility several years ago in HP's opto catalog. Since the power requirement is so great I'd spend a bit of time optimizing the drive circuits also. After all we're wasting the product of the LED current and the difference between the supply rail and the LED voltage drop, in addition to the minimum 15-30% of input power dissipated by even switchmode supplies. If I went with the high current pulse/lower average current scheme I'd even give some thought to broadcasting a phase shifted sync signal to all the individual subassemblies, the purpose of this being to even out the power supply's load by phase shifting the timing of the short high current pulses. This sync signal doesn't have to be broadcast very often - just enough to compensate for any differences between crystals and maintain display refresh timer phase lock. The 80 bytes of display RAM for a bit addressable 2 by 8 module (640 bit) monochromatic LED display cluster would easily fit within an 8751 along with any necessary program RAM and EPROM. Display ram can be doubled to support half brightness as an attribute physically effected by pulse width modulation by firmware. The extra memory is available in an 8752. Monochrome display refresh requires broadcasting only eight Kbytes. If display refresh were not needed at video frame rates the same scheme you used in your mandelbrot engine would work for communication. I would use rs-485, though, to avoid corrupting the data with display multiplexing noise. Regarding my talents, I should have phrased my question differently. |-) -jgn Msg#:10220 *GENERAL* 11-19-88 15:43:53 From: STEVE DUNCAN To: ALL Subj: FOR TRADE For trade: An actrix z80 computer, w/built in printer, double sided disk drives, acoustic and direct conntect 300 baud modem, screen and keyboard. Also includes software. Also, an epson mx-80 with a faulty motor driver interface. If interested leave a message here, or call me, Steve Duncan at 715 235 7789. Msg#:10221 *GENERAL* 11-19-88 16:49:12 From: DALE REID To: ALL Subj: QUESTIONS Two questions: Has anyone seen a catalog that deals with little bits and pieces for the phones and phone lines lately? There used to be lots of the m around, or so it seems, and now nobody carries nothin! I'm looking for an outboard ringer that doesn't cost an arm and a leg. I used to get those little tweeters that connected accross the line to replace the old bells but can't find a source Anyone seen them lately? Next, anyone know the city and state ID to pc-pursuit in on to this board? Msg#:10271 *GENERAL* 11-21-88 09:25:47 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: DALE REID (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 10221 (QUESTIONS) Radio Shack sells a couple different ringers. They also sell a ringer chip and the transducer for it if you want to build your own. The ring is obnoxious, though. To get in here using PC Pursuit, dial you local Telenet node and type "C D/CTHAR/12,name,pw" to connect with a Hartford outdial modem. Then tell the modem to dial 8711988 (either Hayes or Racal-Vadic mode). Msg#:10465 *GENERAL* 11-26-88 16:18:26 From: DALE REID To: KEN DAVIDSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 10271 (QUESTIONS) Thanks for the info, I'll look for a switch to put in so I can turn off the obnoxious rin g. Say, have you ever heard the sonolert black piezo beepers made into a soft chime? There must be something about the way they are driven, waveform shape or something, that makes them into a very pleasant chime. The only place I have ever seen them do that is on a hospital floor where the room lights and nurses call buttons cause a very nice sound. I am still working on the engineers to let me tear one apart some night when they aren't in use and see just what makes them. sound so nice. I hate the traditional ringers on the new electronic phones. Perhaps something to goof around wth. Thanks for the PCPUrsuit info, I'll start saving today especially since I already am a subscriber. Dale Msg#:10485 *GENERAL* 11-26-88 23:07:27 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: DALE REID (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 10465 (QUESTIONS) I've wanted to play with trying to generate those chimes myself. Why torture yourself with loud, obtrusive ringing or warbling when a pleasant chime will tell you just as effectively to pick up the phone? I'd be interested if you find something. Msg#:10222 *GENERAL* 11-19-88 18:33:38 From: WAYNE J. CLEWELL To: JOHN COOK (Rcvd) Subj: BIOS EXPANSION JOHN; ARE YOU SURE THAT 40 PIN SOCKET IS FOR AN EPROM OR FOR A MATH CO-PROCESSOR I HAVENT SEEN ANY YET WITH A 40 PIN SOCKET FOR AN EPROM, DON'T GET ME WRONG I HAVEN'T SEEN IT ALL BY ANY MEANS. ONE THING YOU SHOULD KNOW HOWEVER, THAT V20 YOU TALKED ABOUT IS NOT 100 % IBM COMPATIBLE, ESPECIALLY IF YOUR GOING TO USE ANY ASSEMBLY LANGUAGE PROGRAMMING. THERE ARE SEVERAL MASM COMMANDS THAT GIVE THE V20 A BAD TIME. FOR MY OWN PART, THE 12 MHZ IS FANTASTIC, BUT IN MY PARICULAR CASE I WOUND UP SACRIFICING THE 12 MHZ. BY CHANGING THE CLOCK CRYSTAL SO THE SPEED DROPPED TO 8 MHZ, AND THEN REMOVING THE V20, REPLACED IT WITH A 8088-2 8 MHZ PROCESSOR, I THEN HAD A TRUE 100 PER CENT COMPATIBLE. YOU MIGHT TRY THIS IF YOU INTEND TO GET INTO THE REAL WORKINGS OF YOUR MACHINE, ESPECIALLY IF YOU ARE GOING BY IBM STANDARDS. -- WAYNE -- Msg#:10740 *GENERAL* 11-30-88 21:30:58 From: JOHN COOK To: WAYNE J. CLEWELL (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 10222 (BIOS EXPANSION) oops, its a 28 pin socket like most, my fault. Too much studying i guess. anyway, I decomplied my BIOS a while back with something called SOURCER so during break im gonna have a good look at that. As for changeing crystals and cpus, well, i bought it for speed and unless i really need to get deep into it that stuff stays. thanks for the info on the V20, everything i've read so far says 100% IBM but since when are ads the final source of info. thanks -JDC Msg#:10223 *GENERAL* 11-19-88 19:19:11 From: WAYNE J. CLEWELL To: BOB PADDOCK (Rcvd) Subj: 1802 BOB; I'M INTERESTED IN THE PROBLEMS YOUV'E HAD WITH MEMORY MAPPING ON THE 1802 I HAVE USED THE 1851 I/O PORT IN A MEMORY MAP CONFIGURATION SEVERAL TIMES WITH NO ILL EFFECTS, THE ONLY THING THAT I FOUND THAT WAS NECESSARY WAS TO INSTALL FILTER CARS ON Vcc AND GND, AND THAT WAS TO CLEAN THE LINE PROBLEMS (NOISE) FROM THE POWER SUPPLY. EVEN THOUGH THE IC. IS CMOS AND SUPPOSEDLY NOT SENSITIVE TO NOISE I FOUND THE 1851 TO BE ANEXCEPTION. ALTHOUGH MOST OF THE 1800 SERIES ICS ARE DIFFICULT TO OBTAIN, OR NOT OBTAINABLE AT ALL, QUITE A FEW STRANGE PROBLEMS THAT I'VE ENCOUNTERED, SEEMED TO DISAPPEAR WHEN I WENT AWAY FROM THE 1800 SERIES IN LEU OF SOME OTHER COMPATIBLE IC'S, THAT IS INTEL, NATIONAL, TI ETC. I'M ALWAYS INTERESTED IN RCA 1800 SERIES MICROPROCESSORS, I WAS BEGINNING TO THINK IT WAS A DEAD BREED. -- WAYNE -- Msg#:10278 *GENERAL* 11-21-88 12:09:01 From: BOB PADDOCK To: WAYNE J. CLEWELL (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 10223 (1802) After I designed a circuit and PC board using the 1851 in the memory map mode I found this in: "Microprocessor/Memory Aplications Briefs" July 1981, Rev 1 A Compendium of the most useful CDP1800 Series Microprocessor/M emory Applications hints that have appared in recent issues of the RCA Solid State News Letter" (Hows that for a short title?) Page 79: Known Errors: Bits B0 and B1 will NOT program as output but remain as inputs, when the device is used at Vdd volatges above appx. 7 volts. 2) The logic conditions (AND, NOR, OR, NAND) for interrupt response (programmed by byte #9 in the data sheet) do not load correctly [This was my problem]. The resons for the problem is a race condiction of data hold and latching the data involving WR/RE (Pin 38) and MWR (Pin 39) of the 1851. Personaly I wish the 1802 was dead, but I'am stuck with it. Any CPU that can't directly address a byte of memory with out haveing to load a register is not vary effective. Msg#:10293 *GENERAL* 11-21-88 13:46:40 From: WAYNE J. CLEWELL To: BOB PADDOCK (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 10278 (1802) THANKS FOR REMINDING ME OF THAT ARTICLE, IT SLIPPED MY MIND. BUT REMEMBER THAT THE STRENGTH OF THE 1802 WAS IN IT'S "N-LINES",USING THESE DID GIVE THE USER FULL USE OF THE 1851'S OPTIONS. YOU MIGHT SAY THAT AS WITH EVERYTHING ELSE, CERTAIN PROCESSORS WERE BETTER DESIGNED FOR SOME SPECIFIC FUNCTIONS THAN OTHERS. PERSONALLY, I LIKE THE 1802, I THINK IT'S A SHAME THAT RCA NEVER WENT ON TO REALLY DEVELOPE THE 1802'S POTENTIAL, I THINK A 16 BIT VERSION WOULD HAVE SET IT APART FROM THE REST. I USE SEVERAL 1802'S IN MY XT COMPATIBLE FOR MULTITASKING, THE INDIVIDUAL CARDS USE THE 43256 STATIC RAMS FOR STORAGE, MOST OF THE TIME THE 1802'S ARE WAITING ON MY XT. BUT AGAIN THIS IS MY PARTICULAR APPLICATION. THANKS FOR THE DISCUSSION BOB, -- WAYNE -- Msg#:10229 *GENERAL* 11-20-88 00:51:07 From: ROBERT PETRLAK PETRLAK To: ALL Subj: HELP I HOPE SOMEONE CAN HELP ME. I AM UNFAMILIAR WITH DOWNLOADING FILES AND COULD REALLY USE SOME HELP WITH XMODEM PROTOCOLS(START SENDING ETC.) ALSO I DO NOT UNDERSTAND WHY I MUST LOG ON AS A NEW USER EVERYTIME I GAIN ACCESS TO THE BBS. ANY HELP IN THESE AREAS WOULD BE DEEPLY APPRECIATED. I AM USING AN XT CLONE RUNNING BITCOM SOFTWARE. ROBERT PETRLAK HOLLYWOOD, FLORIDA Msg#:10272 *GENERAL* 11-21-88 09:47:26 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: ROBERT PETRLAK PETRLAK Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 10229 (HELP) You must log on as a new user each time because I keep deleting your name (or I should say, your names). When the system asks for your first name, type just your first name. That way when it gets tacked onto your last name, you don't end up with two last names. Go to any of the file areas and read the selection called "How to Download Files." If you have any specific questions after that, ask again. I can't help with the procedure on your end. The manual for your program might be useful. Msg#:10231 *GENERAL* 11-20-88 01:16:35 From: BOB DAHLB To: GENERAL Subj: SCHEMATIC CAPTURE PKG FOR SALE I AHVE A SCHEMATIC CAPTURE PKG FOR SALE. THE PKG IS SCHEMA FROM OMATION. IT IS VERSION 2.02. IT IS STILL HARDWARE LOCKED SO YOU CAN BE SURE I AM NOT SELL YOU THE PKG AND KEEPING A COPY. THE PRICE FOR THE UPGRADE IS $179.00 - I AM SELLING THE PKG FOR $201.00 -> TOTAL $380.00. TOTAL VALUE OF THE PKG IS $495.00 +. PLEASE CALL I WANT TO SELL IT BAD. I BOUGHT A $2000 PKG. CALL 213-376-2373 SK FOR BOB DAHLB. Msg#:10232 *GENERAL* 11-20-88 01:45:42 From: THOMAS BUCHANAN To: ALL Subj: X10 INFRARED Has X10 ever released an infrared detector which will properly output their codes over household mains? Heathkit briefly offered an abortive variant which was preset to fixed house & unit codes - a real bummer, with these limitations not noted in their catalogue. I tried two, both fixed at house "A", unit "1". Needless to say they both were returned for refund. . There is a real need for a proper X10 IR detector which can accomodate ei- ther VARIABLE house-unit codes or perhaps fixed codes which can be speci- fied at the time of order. Would be useful for household lighting security and seems a "natural" for the company. . By the way, I use several X10 devices and find the revised models far more reliable than their previous counterparts. Msg#:10273 *GENERAL* 11-21-88 09:55:19 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: THOMAS BUCHANAN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 10232 (X10 INFRARED) I know X-10 doesn't have any kind of IR interface, and I haven't seen one from anyone else. An off-the-shelf alternative is their RF transmitter/receiver. If you want to do some work, most of the elements to make such a system have been published. In the February '87 issue of BYTE, Steve detailed an IR transmitter/receiver system that used a BCC52 on the receiving end. Pair that with the X-10 power line interface for the BCC52 that I described in the May/June issue of INK and you'll have your power line IR interface (though it will cost a bit more than the $40 RF unit). Msg#:10343 *GENERAL* 11-23-88 00:40:15 From: STEVE MANN To: KEN DAVIDSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 10273 (X10 INFRARED) I think the idea is, like mine, I have a "Universal" IR controller that can be programmed from all of the other IR remotes (TV, VCR, Cable Converter, Stereo, etc.). I'd really like to be able to program it for my X10 systems also..... Msg#:10968 *GENERAL* 12-05-88 09:16:47 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: THOMAS BUCHANAN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 10232 (X10 INFRARED) I guess I misunderstood your message when I first read it. I thought you were talking about using hand-held IR remote controls to control the X-10 devices. Now I see you're talking about IR motion sensors. X-10 did do a box for Stanley that will not only control local flood lights when motion is sensed, but will send out "on" commands to four different modules so lights inside the house will also turn on with the motion. Everything must be on the same house code, but four different module numbers can be controlled. Heathkit sells the unit for about $100. Stanley sells it in discount stores for around $50 (I've seen it on sale for $40). Msg#:10970 *GENERAL* 12-05-88 09:19:19 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: STEVE MANN Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 10343 (X10 INFRARED) We just received new ad copy for X-10's ad in INK. In it they are touting a new interface that allows you to use your universal hand-held remote to send commands to X-10 modules. It looks like a minicontroller and has an IR receiver built in. X-10 is sending me all the information they can and I'll hopefully be able to have a short article in INK about it. Msg#:11290 *GENERAL* 12-11-88 17:47:33 From: THOMAS BUCHANAN To: KEN DAVIDSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 10968 (X10 INFRARED) Thanks very much! I'll beat the bushes and get one as fast as I can. Msg#:10236 *GENERAL* 11-20-88 09:39:43 From: BRUCE WEBB To: GREG BELL (Rcvd) Subj: 8031 INFO Greg, The 8031 (Control-R) system I designed can do lots of things on its own but the capability of connection to a full-up PC adds new dimensions. I think that having that serial port is a must !! By the way, I sent the assembly "handbook" to you early last week, so you should be seeing it at any time. The book I mentioned earlier is "The Cheap Video Cookbook" by Don Lancaster. It is VERY good. As far as your current project goes ... My recommendation is that once you have the 8031 up and running, start slow by trying to get one character at a time running. If the display is small enough, you could use an 8-bit latch on each one (74373) and an address decoder (74138 like ...) to decide which latch is to be addressed. That is about the same thing as having a memory location for each segment. Multiplexing is a possibility that makes the hardware possibly a little cheaper, at the cost of processor time. I mean you'd have to spend a lot of the 8031's capability taking care of the display instead of doing useful work. I hope the 8031 "handbook" is useful, I found LOTS of bugs on closer inspection. Please do NOT send me any money -- Though I would like your comments. My biggest problem was picking an audience. It is hard to give enough detail for someone who is just starting without bogging things down too much. Talk to you soon. Bruce. Msg#:10252 *GENERAL* 11-20-88 19:23:36 From: MIKE DINGELDEY To: ALL Subj: TERMINAL EMULATION PROGRAM(S) Could anyone tell me if procomm (whatever version it is now) supports emulation for a vt200 and vt100 series terminal? If not, could someone tell me where I could find a public-domain vt200 series terminal emulator that does support kermit? Any help would be appreciated..... Msg#:10277 *GENERAL* 11-21-88 10:37:20 From: KEN MUNKHOLM To: USERS IN TEXAS AND B.C. Subj: ENERGY MANG. PANEL I have come accross an energy management panel for which I have no doccumentation. The names on the panel are. Leland Energy Management Systems. Manufactured by Encon, a subdivision of Leland Industries. The system was dedicated to a Chamber of Commerce. The dedication plaque reads Leland Energy Corp. of Dallas Texas Installed by Leland Energy Corp of B.C. A division of A.G. Third + Son CO. Ltd. It appears to be a glorified time clock ( 7day 12 channel) that is driven by an 8748 processor. The board is mounted via a plexiglass panel so allelectronics are visible. Any help would be appreciated. Kimco Controls Ltd. Msg#:11129 *GENERAL* 12-07-88 17:48:55 From: BARRY MOSS To: KEN MUNKHOLM (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 10277 (ENERGY MANG. PANEL) Sorry - no listing for either of those names in the Vancouver phone book. Msg#:11155 *GENERAL* 12-08-88 10:45:50 From: KEN MUNKHOLM To: BARRY MOSS (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 11129 (ENERGY MANG. PANEL) Thanks Barry Msg#:10304 *GENERAL* 11-22-88 09:16:19 From: TIM EMERSON To: ALL Subj: THANKS Just a note of thanks to the many people who responded with helpfull advice on my large screen display problem. This is the first time I've really used a BBS to help solve a real problem. Thanks again for your input. Msg#:10374 *GENERAL* 11-23-88 19:48:55 From: TOM ARNOLD To: TIM EMERSON Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 10304 (THANKS) I have myself been both helper and helpee more than once, tho usually on local (Chicago) boards. We really are a community. Thanks, by the way, to all the folks who have responded to my inquiries here. Msg#:10324 *GENERAL* 11-22-88 11:26:36 From: MARK SNOW To: ALL Subj: SB180 FOR SALE For sale complete SB 180 system 2 teac drives qume terminal and software also a 6mhz sb 180 board . above system is 9 mhz.For more info call (voice only) 1 505 8859105. System price 400.00 board price 125.00 Msg#:10327 *GENERAL* 11-22-88 16:10:02 From: MIKE GALLAGHER To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: MANDELBROT read the last Byte installment on your engine. Hoped for more info on how to run the s/w. A screen is not really saved all the time, even though the display says so. How to recall and display the saved images & parameters? New subject - when is the last issue with circuit cellar due? Msg#:10356 *GENERAL* 11-23-88 09:52:54 From: STEVE CIARCIA To: MIKE GALLAGHER (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 10327 (MANDELBROT) En Nisley is the guy to answer Mandelbrot software questions but I assure you that it is neat, clean, and easy to use. Unfortunately, BYTE wouldn't publish any more pages to the last article so there wasn't much room to discuss the software. Ed will be describing more of it in CC INK. December '88 was my last BYTE article. --Steve Msg#:10361 *GENERAL* 11-23-88 14:02:38 From: MIKE GALLAGHER To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 10356 (MANDELBROT) sorry to hear of that. Byte now no longer has one of its primary article sources. Loss for them. Msg#:10668 *GENERAL* 11-29-88 20:22:02 From: ED NISLEY To: MIKE GALLAGHER (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 10327 (MANDELBROT) I bet you're looking for the screens saved during zooms. Although the program does save a screen shot so you can see where you are when you zoom back out, those files are deleted when you end the program; they're not available after that point. To save a screen you have to let the image generation run to completion, then enter a file name in response to the roll-up prompt. If it's not saving them at THAT point, I've got problems I'd rather not hear about... but I'm sure you'll tell me anyway! Admittedly, it would be nice to save a screen at any point, but remember that this is a driver for a hardware project and not a general purpose Mandelbrot program (although it comes close!). Msg#:10729 *GENERAL* 11-30-88 16:04:22 From: MIKE GALLAGHER To: ED NISLEY (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 10668 (MANDELBROT) o.k. how to recall& display the saved complete sreens? I hope that is not in issues 1 - 3 of Ink!! Did I understand you correctly that the zoomed screens are not really saved to a file? Msg#:10916 *GENERAL* 12-04-88 09:22:18 From: ED NISLEY To: MIKE GALLAGHER (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 10729 (MANDELBROT) What should happen is that DRIVER finishes computing a screen and gives you a rollup prompt to enter a file name. You do so, it saves the screen, and you're ready to zoom in on the next piece of the screen. At any point during image generation you can whack F10 to zoom in on a particular part of the image. DRIVER then saves the current screen in a temporary file and begins regenerating the image based on your zoom box. When you whack F9 to zoom back out, DRIVER recovers the image and deletes the file; all the temporary files are deleted when you hit ESC to bail out. The key limitation here is that you CANNOT save a partially complete image to disk: you will NEVER get a file name prompt for a partial image. Initially I didn't want to save the zoomed images to disk because they eat up so much space, but it turned out that zooming out got a little mystical without the old image. If the disk fills up you've got a problem because there's no way to delete the zoomed files before saving the "real" image you've worked so hard to create. Sigh. Msg#:10328 *GENERAL* 11-22-88 17:11:08 From: TOM CURDA To: KEN DAVIDSON (Rcvd) Subj: "C" TUTORIAL Ken, a while back I saw a reference to an upload of a "C" tutorial. I just went thru all the files and uploads areas, and either I'm blind in one eye, and can't see out the other :-) or what I'm looking for isn't there. Can you or someone else help? thanks, Tom Msg#:10349 *GENERAL* 11-23-88 08:33:24 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: TOM CURDA (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 10328 ("C" TUTORIAL) Unfortunately I don't remember that reference. I check for new uploads almost every day and make them available when they show up. I don't remember seeing a tutorial come through. I guess you'll have to sift through old messages and contact whoever mentioned it. Msg#:10360 *GENERAL* 11-23-88 13:58:35 From: RICHARD ANDREWS To: TOM CURDA (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 10328 ("C" TUTORIAL) . I have the C tutorial that you are looking for. I asked Ken Davidson about uploading it because the ARC file is huge (275 K). Ken mentioned breaking it up into smaller chunks but nothing ever came of it. As I recall I sent a copy of the tutorial to Ken at CCInk but it was too big to post. . If you would like, I could send you a copy (MS-DOS, 360K) on disk, just leave me your address. The tutorial is really good but it assumes that you have some programming experience (although not with C). . . . Msg#:10362 *GENERAL* 11-23-88 14:28:56 From: TOM CURDA To: KEN DAVIDSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 10349 ("C" TUTORIAL) Yeah, I guess I'll have to do that. I saw it in a message from about 7-8 months ago, and maybe whoever left it didn't do the upload. I'll see if I can track it down. Thanks for the quick reply. Msg#:10363 *GENERAL* 11-23-88 14:33:57 From: TOM CURDA To: RICHARD ANDREWS (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 10360 ("C" TUTORIAL) Richard, I'd greatly appreciate it if you would send me the "C" tutorial. My address is : 7312 Coventry Dr. Hanover Park, IL 60103 . If you like, I can send you a disk & postage to cover costs. Again, thanks much. Tom Msg#:10572 *GENERAL* 11-28-88 12:11:51 From: RICHARD ANDREWS To: TOM CURDA (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 10363 ("C" TUTORIAL) . I'll send a copy of the tutorial in the next couple of days; I hope you find it useful. . Msg#:10792 *GENERAL* 12-01-88 17:10:08 From: TOM CURDA To: RICHARD ANDREWS (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 10572 ("C" TUTORIAL) Thanks Richard, I really appreciate it. Regards, --Tom Msg#:10329 *GENERAL* 11-22-88 17:11:17 From: PAUL MEYER To: KEN HOWELL (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 89 (ENCLOSURES) I seem to remember an arosol product a few years back called ConForm. It sprayed onto circuit cards protecting them from nasty environs. It could subsequently be removed from the card by applying freon-tf. --paul Msg#:10386 *GENERAL* 11-24-88 00:17:38 From: KEN HOWELL To: PAUL MEYER (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 10329 (ENCLOSURES) Any idea of a source? --Ken. Msg#:10446 *GENERAL* 11-26-88 00:06:05 From: JOHN MUCHOW To: KEN HOWELL (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 89 (ENCLOSURES) Paul's idea of a conformal coating will work great if the PCB is the only thing you want protected (not the switches, pwr supply, etc.). I would try any of the GE caulks that say they are to be used outdoors. A great source for conformal coatings, if that is all you need, is the Miller-Stephenson Chemical Co., Inc. I requested a sample of their line of coatings and they sent me 3 16 oz. cans of the stuff!!! And a bottle of stuff to remove it too! For samples and tech info, call: 1-800-992-2424. They have Urethane Resin, Silicone Resin, and Acrylic Resin coatings in bulk or spray, just request an aerosol sample of the 3 coatings mentioned above to be sent to your company, it will be more than you'll ever need! John Msg#:10584 *GENERAL* 11-28-88 18:28:01 From: BOB PADDOCK To: JOHN MUCHOW (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 10446 (ENCLOSURES) Some thing to watch out for when using conformal coating is that it doesn't 'wick' or migrate into sockets and/or conecters. Also the coating can trap mositure under componets, like sockets, so that the idea of conformal coating being water proff can be missleading. Any wire or cables attached can also wick water in under the coating. Also some types of coatings attack some types of capacitor (vary rare tho). Unless there is some reason that you absulutly need coating, try to avoaid it. Msg#:10933 *GENERAL* 12-04-88 17:09:02 From: JOHN MUCHOW To: BOB PADDOCK (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 10584 (ENCLOSURES) You're right about the problems with coatings, they have to be used carefully (I didn't know about the incompatability with some caps!). Sealing the box with some type of waterproof compound, or using boxes and fittings approved for outdoor or wet locations is probably the best way to go. Msg#:10330 *GENERAL* 11-22-88 17:24:28 From: PAUL MEYER To: JOHN CARBONE Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 147 (SCSI/ST506) I have a working 512k mac (expanded) w/ plus roms & an emulex ESDI SCSI controller. The emulex controller is running a 300meg cyote drive. Formatting utilities were written by a coworker. The esdi bus should not place any limitations or restrictions on the host side software. I have not gotten the system to boot from the hard disk but it works great when booting from floppy. In debugging it I put a scsi bus monitor on the bus and found some proprietary command codes being sent to the controller. I was told that apple uses these codes to get to propretary functions in their ST506/SCSI controller. It bombs on boot but can be gotten to work. Msg#:10342 *GENERAL* 11-23-88 00:29:53 From: STEVE MANN To: KEN DAVIDSON (Rcvd) Subj: X10 Yes, I have their manual, but the user is still limited to subroutines to their EXE program. I am looking for the communications protocol. I want t to write my own program. Thanks Msg#:10352 *GENERAL* 11-23-88 08:41:33 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: STEVE MANN Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 10342 (X10) If the manual you have only covers the software supplied with the box, then you don't have the manual I'm talking about. The one I have does indeed cover every detail of the communication interface between the X-10 box and your computer. I've written software for my HD64180 machine to talk to the X-10 box, so I obviously didn't use any software that X-10 supplied. Like I said, call X-10 and see about getting the programmer's manual. Msg#:10354 *GENERAL* 11-23-88 09:08:37 From: ERIC SCHUYLER To: STEVE MANN Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 10342 (X10) Steve, I have the X10 programming manual with the protocol information you are looking for. I will gladly send you a photocopy for the copying and postage costs. Let me know if you're interested. Msg#:10344 *GENERAL* 11-23-88 00:43:06 From: MIKE BENNE To: KEN DAVIDSON (Rcvd) Subj: MICROMINT ZIP Ken, I was wondering about the MICROMINT ZIP software for the IMAGEWISE. The literature that I received says it will do TIF files. Is this similar to the COMPUSERVE .GIF files? I am afraid I am not familiar with TIF, please excuse my ignorance. Any discussion of or sources of info about TIF would be appreciated. Thank You. Msg#:10353 *GENERAL* 11-23-88 08:45:08 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: MIKE BENNE (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 10344 (MICROMINT ZIP) I'm not altogether up on all the different picture formats either, but I believe TIF (or TIFF) originated on the Amiga and has spilled over to other computers. Like GIF, it can be used to exchange pictures between systems, but it's not at all compatible with GIF. There should be a conversion program around somewhere. One of my goals is to be able to convert ImageWise pictures to GIF. Msg#:10365 *GENERAL* 11-23-88 15:28:45 From: TOM CURDA To: ALL Subj: REVENGE :-) Well, I just got my December issue of Byte. As you all know, this is Steve Ciarcia's last Byte article. Like most of you, I have several months yet to go on my subscription, and I am going to cancel and hope for a refund. However, maybe we can all have some fun in doing this, and let Byte know what thier losing. What I propose is for EVERYONE to call Byte on the same day, and cancell their subscription (assuming you were already planning to). They would be deluged with phone calls, and I think this would get the message across. We just need to pick a date. My vote: Dec. 7 , appropriate for a devestating sneak attack. What about it, people? Signed: a loyal Ciarcia fan. Msg#:10366 *GENERAL* 11-23-88 15:45:34 From: NEIL CHERRY To: TOM CURDA (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 10365 (REVENGE :-)) That sounds like fun, I wish I had a subscription to byte so I could cancel it. NJC Msg#:10376 *GENERAL* 11-23-88 19:51:19 From: TOM ARNOLD To: TOM CURDA (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 10365 (REVENGE :-)) Mine just happens to be running out, so I don't get to cancel. I do have postage payed envelopes coming in addressed to the subscription dept tho... Msg#:10368 *GENERAL* 11-23-88 16:56:54 From: MIKE GALLAGHER To: ALL Subj: CP/M - XMODEM which (if any) cp/m terminal / modem programs support xmodem protocol ?? Msg#:10424 *GENERAL* 11-25-88 08:47:43 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: MIKE GALLAGHER (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 10368 (CP/M - XMODEM) As far as I know, all the popular ones support XMODEM, including MODEM7 (MDM740), MEX, and IMP. Msg#:10573 *GENERAL* 11-28-88 12:35:45 From: MIKE GALLAGHER To: KEN DAVIDSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 10424 (CP/M - XMODEM) I am running IMP. I guess I will check closer and see if i can find out about xmodem. Thanks - M. Msg#:11262 *GENERAL* 12-11-88 09:35:55 From: PELLERVO KASKINEN To: MIKE GALLAGHER (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 10573 (CP/M - XMODEM) If you use IMP, you have the XMODEM built in, both in checksum and CRC mode as well as 1 kilobyte package size in addition to the original 128 byte size. If you want some information about the protocol itself, there are several sources. One is a book, Gofton: Mastering Serial Communications; SYBEX. The others are various source listings available on some bulletin boards or on FOG library disk number 126 (if I am right - I have not verified). . -- PJK Msg#:11970 *GENERAL* 12-27-88 14:41:42 From: MIKE GALLAGHER To: PELLERVO KASKINEN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 11262 (CP/M - XMODEM) O.k. That bears further inversigation. Normally I run IMP in the terminal mode. The documentation I have does not expressly state the term XMODEM, though it may well be in there. Thanks - Mike Msg#:12156 *GENERAL* 12-31-88 06:55:08 From: PELLERVO KASKINEN To: MIKE GALLAGHER (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 11970 (CP/M - XMODEM) I see, you have not tried the file transfers on IMP. The capabilities are there for both the original 128 byte blocks as well as the Y-modem compatible 1 kilobyte block size. Similarly, there is automatic selection between checksum and cyclic redundancy code (CRC) error checking. As a further capability, you can choose MODEM7 type batch transfer mode. And you can force some of the defaults. To get a brief list of these capabilities, on the COMMAND> type M for the menu. Specifically, when you want to start a file transfer, select everything on the remote computer at first. It will signal something about being ready to.... and at that point you hit - and get to the command mode of your IMP. There, if you want to download from the remote (and did already set that up at the remote) command R (for "Receive") - space - Filename.Ext - . That is all there is, if the defaults are matching between your computer and the remote. If not, you can at first use the default toggles. Or you can include in the receive command either K (i.e. RK) to force a Y-modem style 1 kilobyte block size with CRC error checking or you can include X (i.e. RX) to force a 128 byte block size. The rest is automatic and after the transfer you are returned to the terminal mode. I hope this clarifies rather than complicates the matters! -- PJK Msg#:10369 *GENERAL* 11-23-88 17:06:20 From: TOM CURDA To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: LIGHTNING DETECTION Steve, quite a while back there was some discussion on lightning detection. I've searched the message base and can't seem to find the thread. Anyway, my question is, did anyone ever come up with a reasonable method for accomplishing this ? My house got hit recently, and it took out TV, stereo, and several computers. I'm installing protection on the various lines now, but it would be nice to have some advance warning. --Tom Msg#:10425 *GENERAL* 11-25-88 08:48:48 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: TOM CURDA (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 10369 (LIGHTNING DETECTION) That whole discussion took place before the move to the new BBS software in February, and it didn't make it across to the new system. Msg#:10447 *GENERAL* 11-26-88 00:07:58 From: JOHN MUCHOW To: TOM CURDA (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 10369 (LIGHTNING DETECTION) Radio EE or Modern EE had an article within the past year or so on building a lightning detector. I don't know the month but i'll post it when I find it. John Msg#:10790 *GENERAL* 12-01-88 17:08:13 From: TOM CURDA To: KEN DAVIDSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 10425 (LIGHTNING DETECTION) OK. I didn't know how far back the discussion was; I was primarily interested whether or not anybody had come up with a method. Thanks anyway. Msg#:10791 *GENERAL* 12-01-88 17:09:09 From: TOM CURDA To: JOHN MUCHOW (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 10447 (LIGHTNING DETECTION) Thanks John, I'll keep an eye out. --Tom Msg#:10379 *GENERAL* 11-23-88 20:29:44 From: NORMAND DRAPEAU To: ALL Subj: IBM PC JR. FOR SALE IBM PC JR. WITH PRINTER PORT,MONITOR,BASIC CARTRIDGE,LITTLE SOFTWARE $300.00 CALL NORM 569-8731 ANYTIME /S Msg#:10380 *GENERAL* 11-23-88 20:43:44 From: NORMAND DRAPEAU To: ALL Subj: TALLGRASS TECH 20 MEG HARD/TAPE DRIVE DOES ANYONE KNOW IF YOU CAN INTERFACE THIS UNIT TO A ATARI 520ST IF NOT IS ANYONE INTERESTED IN BUYING THIS UNIT WORKS ON PC XT AT ALSO HAVE 8 TAPES FOR IT NORMAND 569-8731 Msg#:10387 *GENERAL* 11-24-88 00:59:00 From: JACK PERGAL To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: LAST BYTE ARTICLE I thought it was kind of (actually very) shabby of Byte not to let you have a goodbye message to all of your readers. You were one of the original Byte contributors and to just let you drop from their pages is quite an insult. More power to you and CC Ink. Jack Msg#:10510 *GENERAL* 11-27-88 13:31:41 From: STEVE CIARCIA To: JACK PERGAL (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 10387 (LAST BYTE ARTICLE) The lack of a goodbye message is no insult to me. I know the source of the decision and tha warped loic! You, the reader, should feel insulted and be asking if BYTE management considers you stupid enough not to not to notice that the reason you may have originally subscribed is no longer there. Perhaps you should be sending your message to them if you now are paying for something no longer of value (BYTE). Don't do it for me. The best thing they ever did was not renew my contract (even though it could have been handeled much better). Circuit Cellar INK would not now be the run-away success it is becoming if I still had BYTE to give me grief about competing with them at the same time. Now, I consider being a BYTE competitor as a badge of achievement. --Steve Msg#:10523 *GENERAL* 11-27-88 23:56:08 From: TOM ARNOLD To: JACK PERGAL (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 10387 (LAST BYTE ARTICLE) I remember before they dropped the bomb (Oh wow, I mean stopped publishing results of the Byte Ongoing Monitor Box) Steve's articles were allways the top choice. Seems they need a dose of negative feedback. Msg#:10389 *GENERAL* 11-24-88 04:01:24 From: ROBERT EUGSTER To: MAC USERS Subj: MANDELBROT GENERATOR I have just uploaded a mandelbrot generator to the other area. It only works on the Mac II but it is nice. The documentation is included if you would just like to read about it. Hope you enjoy it. Robert Msg#:10397 *GENERAL* 11-24-88 09:22:47 From: MARK LAMPKIN To: GENERAL Subj: S-RECORD TO INTEL CONVERSION Has anyone written or is in posession of a general program to translate Motorola S-Record to Intel Hex files?...I recently purchased the CCI Eprom Programmer,which,unfortunately,uses only the Intel Hex format...Many of the inexpensive,(or free),cross assemblers ouput the object code in one format,only,while the better assemblers have a command line switch.Mine don't.I am not fluent in either the Mot or the Intel format creations,so,I need a conversion program,or a source of explaination on both formats...... Any info would help........Thanxs,....Mark Msg#:10411 *GENERAL* 11-25-88 02:30:24 From: GARY LEAR To: MARK LAMPKIN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 10397 (S-RECORD TO INTEL CONVERSION) I believe I have some info at work. Unfortunately, I won't be back to work for a week or so. If you havesn't received all the info you need by then please send me a message. --Gary Msg#:10434 *GENERAL* 11-25-88 16:15:42 From: MARK LAMPKIN To: GARY LEAR (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 10411 (S-RECORD TO INTEL CONVERSION) Gary...Thanks for the response...I'll be looking for the info in about a week.....Mark Msg#:10441 *GENERAL* 11-25-88 22:28:20 From: GARY LEAR To: MARK LAMPKIN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 10434 (S-RECORD TO INTEL CONVERSION) Mark, after I sent my reply my curiousity was aroused and I decided to do a subject search of past messages on this board. I hit pay dirt with a "Motorola" search parameter. Do a search and look for a message from Bob Paddock on this subject. This should be faster than waiting for me. Do let me know however if you need any additional information (I may have a conversion routine in my archives). Good luck, and let me know what you come up with. --Gary Msg#:10462 *GENERAL* 11-26-88 16:11:44 From: MARK LAMPKIN To: GARY LEAR (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 10441 (S-RECORD TO INTEL CONVERSION) Gary...Thanks for the addt'l tip....I'll check it out...Mark Msg#:10498 *GENERAL* 11-27-88 05:31:33 From: GARY LEAR To: MARK LAMPKIN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 10462 (S-RECORD TO INTEL CONVERSION) Hope it helps. Let me know what you come up with. --Gary Msg#:10524 *GENERAL* 11-27-88 23:59:41 From: TOM ARNOLD To: MARK LAMPKIN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 10397 (S-RECORD TO INTEL CONVERSION) Well, I'm most of the way thru converting a binary to Intel converter to output S-Records. If it works, it would constitute an alternative solution. I'll put some time into it the next couple nights. As of now it's vaporware, but I'll try. Msg#:10576 *GENERAL* 11-28-88 14:08:04 From: NEIL CHERRY To: MARK LAMPKIN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 10397 (S-RECORD TO INTEL CONVERSION) I'll look around for the information I have on Intel hes Moto hex, tek hex and a few others. NJC P.S. to get you the info leave a fx # or address. Msg#:10611 *GENERAL* 11-29-88 06:31:43 From: MARK LAMPKIN To: TOM ARNOLD (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 10524 (S-RECORD TO INTEL CONVERSION) Tom...The problem I gave is that the cheap,or free,assemblers automatically output their object code in one of the formats,(s-record or Intel).That is why I am looking for the conversion routine....Mark Msg#:10612 *GENERAL* 11-29-88 06:33:06 From: MARK LAMPKIN To: NEIL CHERRY (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 10576 (S-RECORD TO INTEL CONVERSION) Neil...I'd really appreciate it....Fax..(313)885-7114...Mark Msg#:10650 *GENERAL* 11-29-88 11:18:20 From: NEIL CHERRY To: MARK LAMPKIN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 10612 (S-RECORD TO INTEL CONVERSION) I'll need a couple of days to find it and then I'll fax the sheets explaining the codes and I'll fax a C program that converts binary to S1DUMP (Motorola hex code). It's not fancy and it was meant for position independent code. But it works. Msg#:10662 *GENERAL* 11-29-88 19:36:22 From: MARK LAMPKIN To: NEIL CHERRY (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 10650 (S-RECORD TO INTEL CONVERSION) Neil...Thanks muchly........Mark Msg#:10724 *GENERAL* 11-30-88 12:29:25 From: NEIL CHERRY To: MARK LAMPKIN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 10662 (S-RECORD TO INTEL CONVERSION) Just sent the pages this morning, should be 12 pages long. Sorry I couldn't include a source to a program but my systems are still down. NJC. Msg#:10758 *GENERAL* 12-01-88 06:00:10 From: MARK LAMPKIN To: NEIL CHERRY (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 10724 (S-RECORD TO INTEL CONVERSION) Neil...I appreciate the Fax of the info...I am lucky that I didn't run out of paper on that one.....I have looked it over and I don't think it could be explained much more thoroughly....Thanks...Mark Msg#:10400 *GENERAL* 11-24-88 13:11:46 From: MIKE DINGELDEY To: CHRIS STRATTON (Rcvd) Subj: Z80 CROSS ASSEMBLER Hi Chris I have a z80 cross assembler around here somewhere that i used when i was in school. If you like, I could zap it to you in a message (have to wait till monday though....my pc is out to lunch, and i'd have to do it from work). Or, if anyone else wants (provided the silly thing is still on one disk), I could upload it. By the way, the program does say it is "public". Seems to be ok. Regards, Mike. Msg#:10734 *GENERAL* 11-30-88 18:23:02 From: CHRIS STRATTON To: MIKE DINGELDEY (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 10400 (Z80 CROSS ASSEMBLER) That would be great, if it supports relocatable addressing. Also, does it use zilog mnemonics and psuedo-ops? I am new, so could you explain how I should download it from a message? Thanks, Chris P.S. How long is it? Msg#:10843 *GENERAL* 12-02-88 11:57:39 From: MIKE DINGELDEY To: CHRIS STRATTON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 10734 (Z80 CROSS ASSEMBLER) well, after i replied to you i wondered: gee...how could he get it from a message (would be neat to get the exe that way, wouldn't it?). as to the size, it is less than 360K (docs, and everything). yes, it is compat. with zilog (at least that's what the docs say). the package is from computerwise consulting services, maclean, va. have fun with it! it should be uploaded today. sorry about the delay. Msg#:10972 *GENERAL* 12-05-88 09:26:58 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: MIKE DINGELDEY (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 10843 (Z80 CROSS ASSEMBLER) Don't be so quick to dismiss being able to pass binary files in messages. When you finish typing your message and you have a line of commands to choose from, select ile. The system will ask if you want to attach a file to the message. Type "Y" and the system will ask for a protocol. You can then upload any file you want, ASCII or binary. When someone then reads the message, he will be alerted that there is an enclosure with the message. He can type nclosure and will be allowed to download the file. This works with both public messages and Email messages. Msg#:11003 *GENERAL* 12-05-88 17:53:38 From: CHRIS STRATTON To: MIKE DINGELDEY (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 10843 (Z80 CROSS ASSEMBLER) I can't seem to find the z80 assembler. Have you uploaded it yet, and if so under what part of the file area. Thanks, Chris Stratton Msg#:11234 *GENERAL* 12-10-88 11:40:36 From: CHRIS STRATTON To: MIKE DINGELDEY (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 10400 (Z80 CROSS ASSEMBLER) Thanks for your help, but I found an assembler to run on my cpm system. This works much better because I am writing code for eprom's and my eprom burner is hooked up to my cpm system Msg#:11357 *GENERAL* 12-12-88 12:43:23 From: MIKE DINGELDEY To: CHRIS STRATTON Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 11003 (Z80 CROSS ASSEMBLER) well, i'd uploads the silly thing when i get all the documentation for it because all the .doc file were slightly trashed.....couldn't read them. when i get it, (the last file...how to create the intel hex, etc...) i'll upload it...by the way, i have included an example that i did when i was in school, so that you could see some of the differences. so far, in archived form (pk 3.5) it takes up about 93k. when you get it, have fun with it......!!! Msg#:10401 *GENERAL* 11-24-88 13:37:47 From: HENRY MINSKY To: GENERAL Subj: MOTOROLA 68HC11 ASSEMBLER FOR IBM PC? I saw a message which mentioned that Motorola supplies a 6811 assembler for the IBM PC for free. Where do I find out how to get this program? We are using the 68hc11 as the basis for a "robot olympics" contest this January at the MIT AI Lab. We have an assembler which we wrote which runs in common-lisp on the Macintosh, but it would be great to have an IBM PC version, for people who want to debug their projects at home. Thanks Msg#:10413 *GENERAL* 11-25-88 03:03:09 From: GARY LEAR To: HENRY MINSKY (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 10401 (MOTOROLA 68HC11 ASSEMBLER FOR IBM PC?) Henry, the number is on the BBS somewhere but if I recall correctly it is (512) 440 - FREE (3733). You will find lots of good info there. I have been using the HC11 on a robot project of my own. I have a question or two about some papers that were written at MIT's AI lab (specifically, mapping a room with sonar or laser rangefinder). Please let me know more about your involvement at the lab and maybe you could help me out. Regards, Gary. Msg#:10435 *GENERAL* 11-25-88 16:20:26 From: MARK LAMPKIN To: HENRY MINSKY (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 10401 (MOTOROLA 68HC11 ASSEMBLER FOR IBM P) Henry...I don't have the # at myfinger tips,however,I'll post the # for the Motorola BBS tomorrow......They also have tons of free software for their other CPU's....Mark Msg#:10483 *GENERAL* 11-26-88 23:02:55 From: HENRY MINSKY To: GARY LEAR (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 10413 (MOTOROLA 68HC11 ASSEMBLER FOR IBM PC?) Hi. thanks for the reply to my message. I'm a grad student at the AI LAB at MIT. I do not work on robots, but I have some friends in Rod Brook's group who do work with mobile robots and control strategies. I could tell you who to write to, to get papers or ask questions. -- Henry Msg#:10499 *GENERAL* 11-27-88 05:42:29 From: GARY LEAR To: HENRY MINSKY (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 10483 (MOTOROLA 68HC11 ASSEMBLER FOR IBM PC?) I hope the info on the assembler helps. I just really noticed your last name. Are you by any chance related to the renowned Marvin? Rod Brook's lab is perfect. One of the people that I would like to talk to is Anita Flynn. She did some work with the Navy on Robart with I believe Cmdr. Bart Evans. There are several other people (mostly grad students) that I would like to discuss their papers with. If you could obtian some phone numbers for me I would appreciate it. Let me know if I can be of any further help on using the 68HC11. Regards, Gary. Msg#:10525 *GENERAL* 11-28-88 00:02:33 From: TOM ARNOLD To: HENRY MINSKY (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 10401 (MOTOROLA 68HC11 ASSEMBLER FOR IBM PC?) I have the set in C source code, and I don't know if Motorola's board has it compiled. Mike Katz's BIT WIZ board - 1(312) 935-6809 has it both ways; I don't know if it's the same one. Msg#:10676 *GENERAL* 11-29-88 20:28:16 From: TOM ARNOLD To: HENRY MINSKY (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 10525 (MOTOROLA 68HC11 ASSEMBLER FOR IBM P) I went ahead and got the assembler and uploaded it here. Enjoy. Msg#:10407 *GENERAL* 11-24-88 23:40:30 From: ARNOLD BERKOWITZ To: ALL Subj: INTEL EMBEDDED MICROCONTROLLER MANUALS I have for sale the Intel Microcontroller Manual Set which covers the 8031, 8032, 8051, 8052, and other CPU chips featured in many CC articles. The manuals describe the instruction set you need to understand in order to read and write code for these chips. I'm selling the set for $ 10. Call me at 619-421-4722 or write 1700 Sunny Crest Rd. Bonita, CA 92002 Msg#:10412 *GENERAL* 11-25-88 02:50:27 From: GARY LEAR To: ANDREAS DESSOFF (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 8728 (BURROUGHS MOUSE AND MOTOROLA 68XXX) I don't know how many responses you have received but the processor you mention sounds like the 68701. This is an EPROM development version of the 6801 and contains timers, UART, some ram, and of course the EPROM in one chip. The best info on this part is a dedicated manual on the chip direct from Motorola. I was forced to use this part in a design at work and to put it mildly, it's a turkey! Let me know if you need help finding the data. Regards, Gary. Msg#:10448 *GENERAL* 11-26-88 00:08:10 From: ANDREAS DESSOFF To: GARY LEAR (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 10412 (BURROUGHS MOUSE AND MOTOROLA 68XXX) Thanks, Gary, for the info. I will have to get some specs from Motorola and see how far that will get me. Mainly what I need at the level that I am at is initially a pin-out; I am not about to do any development work but need to deduce what is connected to what wire in the mouse plug, as I want to try to adapt the mouse to work with an ordinary IBM-style serial port. This should be relatively easy since all info so far seems to indicate that this would be a serial mouse. Would it actually be possible that Burroughs and IBM share the technology sufficiently that one's mouse could work on the other's computer? Only if they had no choice, or overlooked something! But I will find out for sure! It's the thrill of experimenting on the Radio-Shack level that makes me do it! I really could afford to buy a mouse that would be guaranteed to work, and there certainly is no financial return to be expected from this adaptation! Thanks again for the info! Msg#:10497 *GENERAL* 11-27-88 05:30:22 From: GARY LEAR To: ANDREAS DESSOFF (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 10448 (BURROUGHS MOUSE AND MOTOROLA 68XXX) It is *very* unlikely that IBM and Burroughs are compatible (especially between a micro and a mainframe!). IBM has had a hard time with their systems that are supposed to be compatible. Even micros are different; witness the Apple vs IBM philosophy. Probably the best that you can do is to trace power connections (power is not directly available on the IBM serial link, especially in the AT, and not at sufficent current levels for most processors in any case) from your circuitry through the connector. By then tracing the serial lines from the 68701 to the connector you will be able to make a comparison of a conventional mouse. The real task comes when you will either have to write your own mouse driver (emulating the Microsoft mouse is best) or modify the microcontroller (68701) code to be compatible. With either software method I *strongly* recommend using an external power supply or changing the controller to a CMOS type and using a RS-232 to 5 volt converter circuit (I believe Maxim or Linear Technology has a good applications note on the subject). Good luck with your project and contact me if you need help, I made a similar modification to another type of input device. Regards, Gary. Msg#:10585 *GENERAL* 11-28-88 18:30:05 From: BOB PADDOCK To: GARY LEAR (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 10412 (BURROUGHS MOUSE AND MOTOROLA 68XXX) I always sort of liked the 6801 (6301), what did you find wrong with it? Compare the 6301 instructions cycle times to the 68HC11, to find out which one is the turky. Msg#:10594 *GENERAL* 11-28-88 20:17:18 From: ANDREAS DESSOFF To: GARY LEAR (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 10497 (BURROUGHS MOUSE AND MOTOROLA 68XXX) Tanks for your comments and your offer tp help. What you say goes quite well with what I would have expected from the Borroughs - IBM combination. Also I had been wondering about how to supply the power to the mouse. Some serial ports do supply power, but I guess the IBM one does not. I'll get back to you once I get started and when (not if?) I run into more problems. Thanks again. Msg#:10618 *GENERAL* 11-29-88 08:08:36 From: GARY LEAR To: BOB PADDOCK (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 10585 (BURROUGHS MOUSE AND MOTOROLA 68XXX) The 68HC11 is completely compatible with the 680x family (it has a 6801 core) and it has several additional opcode pages for the extensions and microcontroller functions. The primary problem that I had was in the specific reset circuitry on the 68701. Both in my design and in a commercial motor controller, the screwball method of mode selection at reset and the inordinate amount of current required made for unreliable operation. The Moto app engineers agreed and finally recommended a TI chip (TL7705) to cure most of the problem. I am not familiar with any significant throughput differences between the 6801 (what is the 6301 reference?, Hitachi?) and the 68HC11. --Gary Msg#:10619 *GENERAL* 11-29-88 08:10:43 From: GARY LEAR To: ANDREAS DESSOFF (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 10594 (BURROUGHS MOUSE AND MOTOROLA 68XXX) Glad to be of service. Be sure to contact me if I can be of any more help. --Gary Msg#:10651 *GENERAL* 11-29-88 12:04:58 From: BOB PADDOCK To: GARY LEAR (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 10618 (BURROUGHS MOUSE AND MOTOROLA 68XXX) Yes, the 6301 is the Hitachi CMOS version of the 6801. Msg#:10663 *GENERAL* 11-29-88 19:40:01 From: MARK LAMPKIN To: GARY LEAR (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 10618 (BURROUGHS MOUSE AND MOTOROLA 68XXX) Gary...The Hitachi part is thecore 6801,but Hitachi has added a few instructions,more memory and more on-board I/O....The code is upward compatible with the 6801,though....Mark Msg#:10697 *GENERAL* 11-30-88 06:44:24 From: GARY LEAR To: BOB PADDOCK (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 10651 (BURROUGHS MOUSE AND MOTOROLA 68XXX) I will have to compare the 68HC11 to the 6301. Does the Hitachi part have an average execution speed of a micosecond or better? This seems to be about normal for current microcontrollers. --Gary Msg#:10718 *GENERAL* 11-30-88 12:07:17 From: BOB PADDOCK To: GARY LEAR (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 10697 (BURROUGHS MOUSE AND MOTOROLA 68XXX) Its been a while sence I looked, so I don't rember the speed, but I do rember that the 6301 took fewer cycles per instruction than the 68HC11 did. Msg#:10760 *GENERAL* 12-01-88 07:35:36 From: GARY LEAR To: BOB PADDOCK (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 10718 (BURROUGHS MOUSE AND MOTOROLA 68XXX) That would only make a difference in final throughput if the internal clock speed was the same or faster for the 6301. Do you happen to recall if this was true for the entire instruction set or for just a portion of it? --Gary Msg#:10786 *GENERAL* 12-01-88 12:17:20 From: BOB PADDOCK To: GARY LEAR (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 10760 (BURROUGHS MOUSE AND MOTOROLA 68XXX) It was true for most of the set. Msg#:10820 *GENERAL* 12-02-88 03:18:07 From: GARY LEAR To: BOB PADDOCK (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 10786 (BURROUGHS MOUSE AND MOTOROLA 68XXX) I will have to see if I still have most of my Hitachi data. Thanks for the info. --Gary Msg#:10416 *GENERAL* 11-25-88 05:15:47 From: MATTHEW MONTCHALIN To: C-128 PROGRAMMERS Subj: SYMBOLIC ASSEMBLER Mountain Wizardry Software is marketing a symbolic assembler that makes absolutely NO calls to any of the C-128 ROM's. Not even to the Commodore kernal or Z80 BIOS. This assembler will still execute just fine regardless of the Frankensteinian monstrosities you may have wrought upon your C-128. Other salient features are: * Multiple statements per line of Code. * Built-In proprietary 1700/1750 RAMDOS, complete with commands for transferring entire disks to & from REU. * Tokenized mnemonics for fast parsing. * Executes from RAM 0 or RAM 1. * Extensive disk support. * 80 Columns by 26 Rows. (but you can pump it up to 30 Rows if you have a good monitor) Full Screen Editor. Curious about details? Direct Inquiries to: Mountain Wizardry Software 9870 SE City View Drive Portland, OR 97266 Voice: (503) 265-2755 Newport Oregon Technical Support Msg#:10430 *GENERAL* 11-25-88 13:47:37 From: ALBERT MILLER To: ALL USERS Subj: IBMBIO I am looking for any info that I could get on the files IBMDOS.COM and IBMBIO.COM. I built a intel based system and would like to run DOS and would like not to use the same ints. Any source code on a loadable BIOS would be great. Thanks... Msg#:10431 *GENERAL* 11-25-88 14:28:51 From: ERIK OLSON To: ALL Subj: EEPROM FOR 8031, CLOCK CHIP Hi people. I am doing some work here at home on an 8031 project and I would like to use an EEPROM to store some information in the external data memory ( not program code ). I have looked at several chips that might do the trick, like an Intel 2817A, but have yet to find where I can purchase one. So my first question is does anybody know of any mail order stores that sell these chips and has anyone ever hooked one of these to an 8031? If so please leave a message and we con discuss some further connection details. Secondly, is there some i.c. out there that keeps track of time (hours, minutes, seconds sort of time) and can be easily interfaced to a microprocessor? I know there must be but I can seem to locate one. Lastly does anyone know of floating point emulation software for the 8031? I would like to buy some if I could find it. Thanks for any comments or help!! Msg#:10433 *GENERAL* 11-25-88 16:02:10 From: BYRON BLAKE To: JUSTIN HOLMES (Rcvd) Subj: RRE: FIDONET Justin, If you supply me with your state, city name (or nearest major city) and a zip code I will be able to produce a list of FidoNet node BBSes in your area. There are over 3000 of these FidoNetworked nodes worldwide. The network is NOT run by, or for AT&T. AT&T has no connection whatsoever with the International FidoNet or its governing association the International FidoNet Association (IFNA). Byron ARS KA1ILI ARS V31EY Fido 1:142/911 Fido 0:142/550 Msg#:10478 *GENERAL* 11-26-88 20:21:43 From: JUSTIN HOLMES To: BYRON BLAKE (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 10433 (RRE: FIDONET) I live in south windsor, CT. The nearest major city is Hartford. Msg#:10437 *GENERAL* 11-25-88 18:56:31 From: JACK PERGAL To: ALL Subj: INFO ON 1793 FLOPPY CONTROLLER I need the data sheets on a 1793-02 floppy drive controller chip.What I want is the programming information for the chip, data sheets and/or application notes. The chip is manufactured by Western Digital, NEC and others. I'd be willing to copy the information if anyone would mail it to me and then return the originals w/$ for postage. Jack Msg#:10535 *GENERAL* 11-28-88 06:29:07 From: KEVIN WILLIAMS To: JACK PERGAL (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 10437 (INFO ON 1793 FLOPPY CONTROLLER) I have the original data sheets for the 1793, it came with a system that I have, leave a message with your address and I will send out copies of everything that I have on the 1793. Msg#:10603 *GENERAL* 11-29-88 02:01:21 From: JACK PERGAL To: KEVIN WILLIAMS (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 10535 (INFO ON 1793 FLOPPY CONTROLLER) Ok thanks for your help. The address is: { Jack Pergal 45 Silver Fox Ct. Cockeysville,Md 21030 Thank{ again, Jack Msg#:10632 *GENERAL* 11-29-88 09:35:26 From: KEVIN WILLIAMS To: JACK PERGAL (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 10603 (INFO ON 1793 FLOPPY CONTROLLER) I will get the manual tonight and copy it, mail it out tomorrow. glad to be of help. Msg#:11215 *GENERAL* 12-09-88 19:32:17 From: JACK PERGAL To: KEVIN WILLIAMS (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 10632 (INFO ON 1793 FLOPPY CONTROLLER) Kevin, did you ever send out the info on the 1793 floppy controller? I never received anything here. Jack Msg#:11544 *GENERAL* 12-15-88 22:44:46 From: JACK PERGAL To: KEVIN WILLIAMS Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 10632 (INFO ON 1793 FLOPPY CONTROLLER) Kevin, I received the data sheets for the 1793 in the mail today, thanks again. I'm going to reimburse you for copying and postage expenses. Jack Msg#:10461 *GENERAL* 11-26-88 15:14:12 From: JOHN FETZIK To: ALL Subj: FILE FORMATS Hi, I am looking for information on various file formats used to store linked and located code, ie., INTEL HEX format, Motorola format, etc. I am trying to write a program that will read various format files and download the program to some microprocessor trainers at school. The trainers include SDK-86, SDK-85, SDK-51, a 6502 trainer, and a 6800 trainer. I want to be able to download from a PC using a serial port so that larger class projects don't need to be keyed in by hand evry time a small change is made. Thanks John S. Fetzik Msg#:10565 *GENERAL* 11-28-88 10:10:44 From: NEIL CHERRY To: JOHN FETZIK (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 10461 (FILE FORMATS) I have the information, I have it for S1DUMP (Moto), Intel hex, Tektronix, and one other hex format. I'll advise you to leave either a fax number or a mail address. My computers are shut down until I rid my RFI problems with the neighbors. NJC Msg#:10689 *GENERAL* 11-29-88 22:34:13 From: JOHN FETZIK To: NEIL CHERRY (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 10565 (FILE FORMATS) Hi. Thanks for the reply. My address is; John S. Fetzik 614 20th Ave. W. Menomonie WI 54751 Thanks again. J.S.Fetzik Msg#:10467 *GENERAL* 11-26-88 16:22:02 From: MARK LAMPKIN To: GENERAL Subj: .LBR FILE EXTENSIONS Anyone out there that can shed some light on the .LBR file extensions in the file area,I would appreciate the information on how to get these in usable format....Is this a CPM file or what.....Mark Msg#:10490 *GENERAL* 11-26-88 23:30:18 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: MARK LAMPKIN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 10467 (.LBR FILE EXTENSIONS) LBR files are indeed used with CP/M systems. Long before the IBM PC or ARC, the CP/M world grouped files into libraries and used the .LBR extension to mark them. Separate compression had to be done on the files before placing them in the library file. Even though ARC has dominated the IBM world, CP/M still uses LBR files. Any file posted here with an LBR extension is really useless to someone who doesn't have a CP/M system. One of these days, though, I'll post a utility for the IBM PC that breaks apart LBR files. Of course, you'll still need utilities to unsqueeze or uncrunch any compressed files. Msg#:10500 *GENERAL* 11-27-88 08:38:56 From: MARK LAMPKIN To: KEN DAVIDSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 10490 (.LBR FILE EXTENSIONS) Ken...I downloaded the Newsweep program from this BBS to use with the Tiny Basic PGM for the 68000 system....I read the .DOC file for it and it really didn't tell how to use it.I had read,somewhere,that a utility called "LSWEEP" was used with CPM machines for archive purposes....Anyhow,I t seemed to work,as far as being able to view the file(s),however,I would like to be able to do more than view it.How the heck can you break the file apart into it's constituent programs ?.......Mark Msg#:10517 *GENERAL* 11-27-88 17:36:05 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: MARK LAMPKIN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 10500 (.LBR FILE EXTENSIONS) Newsweep isn't used for .LBR files. It is simply a tool for looking at directories of files and doing maintenance operations on them. The CP/M version may have .LBR support, but nobody uses it for .LBR files. Everyone uses either LU or NULU. Msg#:10586 *GENERAL* 11-28-88 18:33:56 From: MIKE GALLAGHER To: MARK LAMPKIN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 10467 (.LBR FILE EXTENSIONS) Hey this brings up an interesting thought----- how about an equivilant of the pkarc series of utilities - EXCEPT - built to run on a CP/M machine. Thus the .arc files on the PCs can be read on a REAL machine!! obviously binaries will be meaningless unless someone runs the PC emulator on the CP/M machine, but at least the source and text files would be readable. CP/M forever!!! Msg#:11261 *GENERAL* 12-11-88 09:31:07 From: PELLERVO KASKINEN To: MIKE GALLAGHER (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 10586 (.LBR FILE EXTENSIONS) It may be that somebody else has already answered your question, but let me add my half penny's worth. There is such a utility - to separate it from the MSDOS arena (and from a law suit from SEA as well????) it is using an extension .ARK. That is also how the utility is called. But it is miserably slow, because it must rely on disk accesses. There just is not enough room in the memory of a 64 k Z80 based CP/M. Another reason for slow running is that it so far has not been written in assembly (it is written in C). . As far as treating the .ARC or .ARK files, there is the UNARC utility that is fast and runs without problems. . -- PJK Msg#:10472 *GENERAL* 11-26-88 17:32:01 From: DALE REID To: ALL Subj: ELECTRONIC COMPASS Has any more been done with the electronic compass? I read a Don Lancaster article in Radio E or something, and tried to track down some of the info he listed as sources. Everyone kept telling me that even though they were listed as soucres that they really couldn't do anything and to call NASA. I did and they fellow is always out and haven't heard from him from the messages I left. Any one else haave an interest in this area? Any body get a response from NASA? I have seen a brief ad from ZEMCO, the people that make lots of speed controls for cars and occassionally fuel totalizers, etc. and they had a $99 electronic car compass, I guess. Anyone seen them? Thanks DAle Msg#:10590 *GENERAL* 11-28-88 18:38:32 From: BOB PADDOCK To: DALE REID (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 10472 (ELECTRONIC COMPASS) The best way to get stuff out of NASA is to request it in writing, that way a secratery fills the order for the request, and you actualy get it, abit s-l-o-w, but you do get it. I can't find my file on compass at the moment to give you the exact order number, but I'am sure I've left a message or two on here that have the number, it also might have been giving at the end of that RE artical. Send reqests for info to: NASA STI Facility Manager, TU Divison P.O. Box 8757 Baltimore, MD 21240-9985. In 4 to 20 weeks you'll get what you asked for, about 5 weeks latter, you'll get a letter from them asking how you applied the info that you requested. Msg#:10661 *GENERAL* 11-29-88 18:16:12 From: JIM NELSON To: DALE REID (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 10472 (ELECTRONIC COMPASS) At the Real Time Programming Convention in Anaheim last weekend, a guy named Paul Lamar gave a presentation about the "glass cockpit", an attempt to build an ibm pc based electronic instrumentation system for private aircraft func- tionally similar to those available for commercial aircraft. In passing he mentioned Radio Shack's flux gate compass and its low low price. I presented some details of my work with object centered microcontroller soft- ware design at the conference also. My first time for such an egocentricity. But the grey matter has finally settled enough to allow typing. Msg#:10475 *GENERAL* 11-26-88 18:50:53 From: RODGER KNOWLES To: ALL USERS Subj: NEC MS HD & 8087 'S I would like to Know if it is possible to install an 8087 Math Co-Processor chip in the NEC Multispeed HD computer. The reason being that I would like to run autocad 9.00 on my NEC MS HD. And it requires a Math C0-Processor. Or if possible, is there a utility that would make Autocad think that the computer has a math Co-Processor. Many thanks on this subject. !!! Msg#:10493 *GENERAL* 11-27-88 01:15:49 From: JEFFREY YUAN To: KEN HOWELL (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 8909 (1802 ASSEMBLER) If anyone does find a xasm for 1802 written in C, I would be interested in it, since like Mr. Howell, I, too, have an Amiga. Thanks! Jeffrey Yuan (Tele# 212-861-0014 or YUAN@ROCKY5.ROCKEFELLER.EDU). Msg#:10495 *GENERAL* 11-27-88 03:38:13 From: BILL KURY To: KEITH PAYEA (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 8986 (ROBOTICS HOBBYISTS) Hi Keith! My name is Bill Kury and I am very interested in robotics. I live a little to the north of you in Vancouver, B.C. . I am presently working on a "mobile platform" nicknamed Karl. I would be very interested in swapping ideas with you. Msg#:10541 *GENERAL* 11-28-88 07:11:58 From: GARY LEAR To: BILL KURY (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 10495 (ROBOTICS HOBBYISTS) Bill, I am also working on a mobile platform to map an unknown environment and then navigate in same. I would like to exchange ideas as well. Please communicate :-) further. --Gary Msg#:11287 *GENERAL* 12-11-88 16:31:02 From: KEITH PAYEA To: BILL KURY (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 10495 (ROBOTICS HOBBYISTS) Hi Bill. Thanks for replying. Do you belong to the Vancouver Robotics Group that I read about some time back? You should come down and visit one of our meetings if you get the chance. We meet at 10:00 AM on the third saturday of each month. The next one is on the 18th of December. At least give me your address so we can put you on our mailing list. We put out a newsletter about every other month. My curent project is a maze runner named Hoover. He is built in an old vacuum cleaner case. The Seattle Robotics Society runs maze contests a couple of times a year. If you are interested, I'll send you the rules. Maybe you could enter Karl in the race! Since we live so close,it seems silly communicating via a BBS in Connecticut. Do you frequent any boards on the West Coast. Save us both some money in long distance phone bills. ************* Keith Msg#:10522 *GENERAL* 11-27-88 23:50:18 From: TOM ARNOLD To: GARY LEAR (Rcvd) Subj: GOING FOR BROKE Gary, thanks for your kind words and encouragement. My wife is emotionally supportive of my intent to strike out on my own, but things hsve been tight for us for a long time. We bought a rundown building ten years ago counting on the second paycheck she was bringing in at the time to cover the cost of a new roof and new plumbing. Two months after she got her journeymans card, (but six years after she first started working there) she got layed off with two months seniority. The roof gets a bucket of tar on the leaks every year and we flush the toilet with a bucket. The only reason I have a messdos system is that it's non-compatible. It's a Tandy 2000 I got for $150. I've got a oneshot controller project brewing which should cover the cost of the roof (beyond what's set aside for it) and a decent development machine. In the meantime, the odd bit of encouragement helps me hang in there. Msg#:10537 *GENERAL* 11-28-88 06:39:56 From: GARY LEAR To: TOM ARNOLD (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 10522 (GOING FOR BROKE) Tom, we all need encouragement from time to time. My fiancee' is not as supportive as your wife (she does have some strong points in her favor) but she has recently agreed, albeit reluctantly, to allow me 6 months after my impending layoff to make a go of the consulting thing. Since she owns 60% of the house I consider this right sporting of her! All kidding aside, she has been more receptive of the idea lately (largely due I think to her own misgivings about working for someone else, and the recent success of our friends in the freelance business). If you have any spare time and would like to collaborate on an article or two, please let me know. Good luck in the brave, cruel world and keep smiling. Best regards, Gary. Msg#:10560 *GENERAL* 11-28-88 09:44:29 From: STEVE CIARCIA To: TOM ARNOLD (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 10522 (GOING FOR BROKE) Interesting bit of job history there :-) Of course, striking out on your own can be either the road to ruin or riches depending upon the breakes and your intelligence. About 8 years ago I asked myself that question too. I had a fun engineering job with Control Data and I was writing hobby articles for $35-$50 a page for some rag called BYTE in my spare time. One day management got wind of the writing stuff and reminded me that anything published had to be approved by corporate (at the same time they mentioned that my next assignment might be Butte, Montana). I smiled, did some quick figuring in my head as to whether I could live as a writer (the answer was no so I thought I'd add in a little consulting) and said goodbye! The rest is history and obviously it wasn't a bad decision. If I can pass one bit of experience along though ..... It is hard being an engineering consultant especially when you start out. Credibility is what you are really charging for. Being published in a reputable magazine (one that doesn't specialize in laser eavesdropping projects or cable descramblers!) gives instant credibility. I never hurt for cash in those early years and by publishing a contact address in my articles I never even had to look for jobs either. Good luck. --Steve Msg#:10624 *GENERAL* 11-29-88 08:25:23 From: GARY LEAR To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 10560 (GOING FOR BROKE) Steve, Tom and I have been discussing this topic for a while now. Thanks for including your experience. Regards, Gary. Msg#:10680 *GENERAL* 11-29-88 20:34:00 From: TOM ARNOLD To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 10560 (GOING FOR BROKE) It's certainly flattering to have someone who has established his own credibility offer me encouragement. Thank you. As for my own credibility, I have the relative advantage of working for an industrial job shop. There are industrial distributors all over the country who respect my problem-solving ability. I don't know how many of them are capable of selling control projects, but I will certainly have a great referall network once I manage to peice my development system together. The only major thing stopping me is that, including the back rent our tenant owes us, and ignoring the building code violations, I have about one month's cash cushion. It's gonna stay moonlight for a tad longer. Msg#:10527 *GENERAL* 11-28-88 00:31:20 From: VIC RICHTER To: ALL Subj: EE COURSES I am an electronics technician interested in obtaining a BSEE degree. Is anyone familiar with Cooks Institute of Electronics Engineering? They are located in Mississippi. Also, does anyone have any information on some of these fairly new on-line universities? Please comment on this. Thanks. Vic Richter Msg#:10528 *GENERAL* 11-28-88 02:00:43 From: MARC DIAZ To: ERIK OLSON (Rcvd) Subj: EEPROM/CLOCK I think I may have the perfect solution to your first two issues. Dallas Semiconductor produces an IC called the Smartwatch (DS1216 series). The IC will take care of the clock/calendar issue as well as allowing you to convert a Static RAM into Nonvolatile RAM. The SamrtWatch simply replaces one of the RAM locations on your CPU Board. You re-install the RAM piggyback on the SmartWatch and walla ! The part does not require any interface parts other than what was being used for the existing RAM IC. Using the part is not that difficult, but is too long for me to describe here. I am in the process of writing some 8031 code for that part. As a matter of fact, I have already wrote about half~0wUF+*#8Ythto use the p. If you are interested in getting a copy of the source code, just let me know. Msg#:10529 *GENERAL* 11-28-88 02:13:12 From: MARC DIAZ To: BOB PIERCE (Rcvd) Subj: IEEE-488 ICS BOB I am also in the process of starting a project using the NEC 7210. Actually, I have considered two others as well, the Motorola and Western Digital part. Up until just last week I was not able to get any other information other than just the Data sheets for these parts. I did just recieve an application note for the NEC part. The NEC part does seem to be the choice part between the three listed ( just a guess !). I have never been exposed to the IEEE-488 bus before and was a bit apprehensive on using the IEEE-488 approach on this project. I will be using the 80535 microcontroller (8031 Family) on this project. I tried to find the 8291 part you refered to in your message but could not find it. Is it an Intel part ? Ihave already purchased the two IEEE-488 standards from IEEE. Let me tell you, I think I would rather read a telephone book than those documents. In any case, how difficult is it to use these parts with little or no experience with the IEEE-488 bus ? My first project will only require reading a resistance value from a HPIB DMM and sending the info to my SBC for processing. Piece of cake huh ? Msg#:10530 *GENERAL* 11-28-88 02:18:42 From: MARC DIAZ To: DALE NASSAR (Rcvd) Subj: IBM CARDS Dave Faraday computer products puts out a ctalog that defines the specifications for the PC AT bus, including the physical dimensions. The address is 749 North Mary Ave. Sunnyvale CA, 94086 (408) 749-1900 If you cant get a hold of the company or catalog and wish a copy of the specification, let me know and I can FAX it to you. Its only one page (dimensions only). Msg#:10866 *GENERAL* 12-03-88 03:38:50 From: DALE NASSAR To: MARC DIAZ (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 10530 (IBM CARDS) Marc, Thanks for the information on the card dims. --Dale Msg#:10532 *GENERAL* 11-28-88 04:12:09 From: WAYNE J. CLEWELL To: ALL Subj: FLOPPY DRIVES I'M LOOKING FOR A DOWN TO EARTH TECHNICAL MANUAL ON FLOPPY DRIVES AND CONTROLLER CARDS, SPECIFICALLY, THE WAY THE TWO INTERFACE AND HOW THE DRIVES THEMSELVES COMUNICATE. I'M LOOKING FOR A WAY TO CONTROL A SMALL SERVO A BIT SMALLER THAN A NORMAL DISK DRIVE SERVO, INSTEAD OF USING ELABORATE CIRCUITRY, I THINK THIS SET-UP WOULD DO THE TRICK. THE ONLY THING I LACK IS THE CORRECT INFORMATION TO PULL THE STUNT OFF. ANYONE WITH INFORMATION, WOULD BE GREATLY APPRECIATED. -- WAYNE -- Msg#:10549 *GENERAL* 11-28-88 09:06:14 From: MICHAEL POLAK To: ALL Subj: Z8 CONTROL COMPUTER I am beginning to build the Z8671 computer as described in the July 1981 Byte Circuit Cellar. Since this is my first constuction project in a loooong time, I need a little assistance. I've checked Jameco and the other major distributor's in Byte, but could not find a source for the Z6132. Any other suggestions would be appreciated. Anyone else out there construct this project and have any other suggestions? Msg#:10558 *GENERAL* 11-28-88 09:34:43 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: MICHAEL POLAK (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 10549 (Z8 CONTROL COMPUTER) The pseudostatic RAM used on the original Z8 board hasn't been available for years. The board was redesigned a few years ago to use regular static RAM and to better decode the address space. You might want to call Micromint to get a manual for the new board. It contains complete schematics and other goodies. Msg#:10562 *GENERAL* 11-28-88 09:58:17 From: STEVE CIARCIA To: MICHAEL POLAK (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 10549 (Z8 CONTROL COMPUTER) You can oder a BCC11 manual from Micromint ($10) for the latest schematic which uses static RAMs or you can send me note and a couple bucks postage (send it to me at CC INK address) and I'll send you a couple free Z6132s so you can make the original board (no support anymore for this design, however). Careful, the 1488/89 on that schematic has the power wired wrong. Check it first. --Steve Msg#:10681 *GENERAL* 11-29-88 20:40:09 From: TOM ARNOLD To: MICHAEL POLAK (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 10549 (Z8 CONTROL COMPUTER) One thing I'd do different building that board from scratch is to use a MAX232 for the serial level shifter instead of the aforementioned 1448/9. I would also say that using modern statics would be the way to go; infact, I'd wire 28 pin sockets and give myself lots of room. Go back and review my "Z8 downloading" message chain for a discussion of how to fill that memory space. Msg#:10566 *GENERAL* 11-28-88 10:26:10 From: NEIL CHERRY To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: RFI -HELP! HELP! My neighbors have begun to complain that my computers are messing up their TV's. I need all the info I can on how to cut down on the RFI my computers are emitting. Also I need information on where I can get unusual size cases for my computers. The IBM style case are fine for a few of them but not all. My Atari 520 ST has a 4 meg board that emits enough RFI to BLACKEN the lower VHF stations. Any help would be greatly appreciated. Especially since I haven't worked on my computers for the last 2 months and I need a fix now. NJC Msg#:10660 *GENERAL* 11-29-88 18:10:33 From: JIM NELSON To: NEIL CHERRY (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 10566 (RFI -HELP!) Build a Faraday Cage. Or get a cable and connector EMI suppressor kit ( part number 0199000005 ) from Fair-Rite Products Corp., 914/895-2055. Msg#:10723 *GENERAL* 11-30-88 12:28:09 From: NEIL CHERRY To: JIM NELSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 10660 (RFI -HELP!) what is a faraday cage? And thanks for the information. NJC Msg#:10870 *GENERAL* 12-03-88 06:40:49 From: JIM NELSON To: NEIL CHERRY (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 10723 (RFI -HELP!) A Faraday cage is an electrostatic shield, an earth grounded conductive closed surface that in effect shorts out the electrostatic lines of force radiating outward from your computers, or inward from the outside world. Electromagnetic induction is much harder to shield against because there are no good magnetic insulators, and no perfect conductors. At best, one can short circuit low frequency magnetic fields with high magnetic permeability shielding materials. At RF the permeability of magnetic materials nears unity so one must depend on dissipating as much energy as possible with eddy currents induced in an electrically conductive ( like copper) shield by the interfering magnetic lines of force. I can't go into the physics here; crack a good physics textbook. Msg#:10907 *GENERAL* 12-04-88 04:57:35 From: GARY LEAR To: JIM NELSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 10870 (RFI -HELP!) A concise and accurate description Jim. You might have mentioned though that wonderful material that made single box (without that monster power supply on the floor!) oscilloscopes possible: Mu Metal. --Gary Msg#:10574 *GENERAL* 11-28-88 13:25:36 From: WAYNE J. CLEWELL To: ALL Subj: ROBOTIC BBS I AM LOOKING FOR INFORMATION ON BBULLETIN BOARDS THAT DEAL WITH ROBOTICS, IN MAJORITY. IF ANYONE KNOWS OF ANY ROBOTICS BBS'S PLEASE DROP ME A LINE. -- WAYNE -- Msg#:10599 *GENERAL* 11-28-88 21:39:05 From: KEN LOGSDON To: KEN DAVIDSON (Rcvd) Subj: CHIME CHIPS You might want to check out the Siemens SAB 0600, SAB 0601, and SAB 0602 three-tone, single-tone, and dual-tone chime chips, respectively. Data sheets can be found in the Siemens Consumer IC Data Book. Msg#:10600 *GENERAL* 11-28-88 23:05:09 From: ANDY PICKETT To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: LASER WRITING Steve: Sorry, I just got home from work and got your last message (re: General Scanning). Went ahead and FAX'ed you before I saw this. I wasn't aware that they had discontinued that part number. I'll give Mike Andre (Gen. Scan. Rep in Chicago region) a call and see if they have a replacement or plans for one. At any rate, the stuff I fax'd you has info on SEVERAL different flavors of X-Y scanners - the kind you need for laser writing (and other more serious applications, of course.) Again, sorry to eat up your fax..... How 'bout if I fax you some fax paper? :-) --->Andy<--- Msg#:10713 *GENERAL* 11-30-88 09:16:53 From: STEVE CIARCIA To: ANDY PICKETT (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 10600 (LASER WRITING) Thanks anyway for the FAX. Still haven't received anything from GS directly it was good to have yours. Got any sources for an X-Y scanner? --Steve Msg#:10722 *GENERAL* 11-30-88 12:25:01 From: BOB PADDOCK To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 10713 (LASER WRITING) The November 1988 issue of Lasers & Optronics as an artical : "Vector Scaning Using Personal Computers" by Patrick Murphy. He was using an Amiga with a 'Galyo Scanner'. I've got a question, what is exactly that is being scanned? (Show how much I know about LASER Scanning.) Is that you want to project images onto some thing with a LASER? Or is this to do some thing like a Pink Floyyed (Spelling?) Conecert? Didn't you do a Vecter Graphics display for a O-Scope, a long time ago? Msg#:10774 *GENERAL* 12-01-88 09:57:29 From: STEVE CIARCIA To: BOB PADDOCK (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 10722 (LASER WRITING) Well, what do you know. The Nov '88 issue is sitting right here on my desk (unread of course). I'll look at it right away. Actually, laser projection rather than scanning is probably more correct. A very nice CC INK BBSer sent me a couple galvo mirrors so I am ready. I still think the best security system is built on preventive deterrent. COnsider this: Somebody pulls into the driveway (1000 feet) and starts casing the place. They see a couple cameras but their degree from Attica didn't cover that so they ignore it and walk to ward the house (not on the walkway, mind you). After they pass a proximity trigger point, the monitoring system makes a a couple loud beeps in the vinicity of the garage opposite the house (the one on ROVER's screen, page 6 CC INK #6) and a laser paint in large letters across 3 garage bays,"Go ahead, make my day!" or, "Ever heard of a Wildey 45 Mag?" I know it sounds crazy but 25,000 of you are now reading a magazine inspired by such crazy ideas. Next year there will be 50,000. I just like to think of it as a variation on process control :-) --Steve Msg#:10778 *GENERAL* 12-01-88 10:27:42 From: STEVE CIARCIA To: BOB PADDOCK (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 10722 (LASER WRITING) The first project I ever did for BYTE (reprinted in Circuit Cellar Vol I) was a 256 by 256 vector graphics display. I used a surplus 12" x-y display but, it was quite useable on a scope. Worked real nice. Used a parallel input to draw the vectors from my 8008 computer. Could probably do the whole thing in 10 chips now. --Steve Msg#:10784 *GENERAL* 12-01-88 12:08:12 From: BOB PADDOCK To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 10774 (LASER WRITING) Why about a Hologram of some one using the Wild}iey 45 Mag, complete with target tracking. Some thing like the Ninja in the HoloDeck of Star-Trek-The-Next-Generation. Msg#:10831 *GENERAL* 12-02-88 09:13:16 From: STEVE CIARCIA To: BOB PADDOCK (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 10784 (LASER WRITING) Wonderful!! When can I expect it? :-) --Steve Msg#:12126 *GENERAL* 12-30-88 13:20:54 From: ALEXANDER SCHNEIDER To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 10774 (LASER WRITING) Send me one of those and I'll take it down to the Washington Monument on the 4th of July and steal the show. Alex Msg#:10601 *GENERAL* 11-29-88 00:19:04 From: DAVID LAWSON To: WAYNE CLEWELL Subj: FLOPPY I/O hi wayne..since most floppies use stepper motors for positioning servo systems are unused..if your positioning requirements arent to severe a stepper motor might be the ticket. there are power ic's that do all the phase generation for most any motor and drive type. all you do is tell it what direction and pulse it once for every step ..of course if you want to do the phase generation in software then there are many good driver transistor arrays available..i've done a few stepper projects so if i can be of help do call..of course if you want servo with tachometer and biphase servo loop that can be done too ..dave 214 222 8123 Msg#:10602 *GENERAL* 11-29-88 00:26:15 From: DAVID LAWSON To: TOM ARNOLD (Rcvd) Subj: COLD CRUEL WORLD hi tom..your not alone..only i've got several proposals out and there all hot and want to go, but i can't get 'em to sign on the dotted line. so i build 16kv power supplies while waiting for the big quarter million dollar deal..seems like ive been here before????? what is this place?? anybody know where i can get a job??? but its fun doing it by yourself!! good luck and PRESS TO MECO!! Msg#:10614 *GENERAL* 11-29-88 06:58:45 From: BOB PADDOCK To: DAVID LAWSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 10602 (COLD CRUEL WORLD) What do you do with your 16kv supplies? You wouldn't happen to have one at 50kv @ 50 watts would you? Msg#:10749 *GENERAL* 12-01-88 00:37:17 From: DAVID LAWSON To: BOB PADDOCK (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 10614 (COLD CRUEL WORLD) well its possible.. this one is 16kv @ 1ma and the drive ckt can take twice the voltage i am sending it.. whats your application ?? i can probably get one wound. the supplies go in air cleaners and to generate ozone for water purification. Msg#:10854 *GENERAL* 12-02-88 21:01:00 From: DAVID LAWSON To: BOB PADDOCK (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 10749 (COLD CRUEL WORLD) apparantly i missed something about the knetic energy weapon.. i presently have neighborhood nuclear superiority and am open to any strategic advancements. can i show you my folded dipole microwave oven magnetron disentegrator for stray cats?? Msg#:10616 *GENERAL* 11-29-88 07:49:48 From: BOB PIERCE To: MARC DIAZ (Rcvd) Subj: IEEE-488 > > MARC > > You are not alone. As you may have noticed, everyone who has mentioned GPIB has used words such as apprehension, fear, and hate. But for some reason the damn thing is everywhere, so I try to use it. If there is a "GPIB GURU" out there, how about uploading a quick little, plain English tutorial? > > Anyway, the Intel chips I mentioned were the 8291A Talker/Listener (a preprogrammed 8051) and the 8292 Controller (a preprogrammed 8041A). To implement the complete Controller/Talker/Listener configuration, you must use both chips. The 8292 must trick the 8291A into sending commands and addresses since the 8292 has no GPIB data lines. For more info, see the Intel Micro- communications Handbook, order number 231658-003. > > Since everyone seems to be favoring the 7210, let's agree on it as the common denominator in our various projects. Besides, mine is already built and I wouldn't mind a little company in solving software problems. Hardware wise, it's straight forward no matter which chip you use. All of the GPIB lines go thru bus transceivers, such as TI SN75160 and SN75161, and the T/R lines control the tranceivers. Everything else goes to your system. Decode a chip select, put some address lines on the register selectors, and that's it. > > Now the tricky part. Actually, what you want to do is about as "cakey" as GPIB gets. The protocol varys from device to device, but it should be some- thing like this: The controller gets the attention of the bus. It assigns the DMM as the listener and itself as talker. An ASCII command string is sent to the DMM causing it to sample. The controller waits for a service request from the DMM. It then performs a serial poll to locate the requester, assigns it as a talker and reads the status byte to make sure the sampling was successful. If so, an ASCII command is sent to cause transmission of the sample data. > > What I have described is quite abbreviated, and maybe wrong, but that's the general idea. To tell the truth, I usually have to spend about an hour on each little step until it works. I probably wouldn't have so much trouble if I would just make the effort to read the specs from cover to cover, instead of just enough to get by. Hey, are you done with the Yellow Pages? > > BOB > Msg#:11263 *GENERAL* 12-11-88 09:38:38 From: PELLERVO KASKINEN To: BOB PIERCE (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 10616 (IEEE-488) I can possibly contribute a source code listing for some IEEE-488 disk drive communication that demonstrates the handshaking and messaging principles. But that is only useful, if you are fairly conversant in FORTH. Any takers? . -- PJK Msg#:11376 *GENERAL* 12-12-88 18:14:16 From: JIM NELSON To: PELLERVO KASKINEN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 11263 (IEEE-488) I'm interested, Pellervo. What dialect or vendor of Forth have you written your IEEE-488 routines in? What's your application? Have you posted this code on the ECFB at 703/442-8695 ? Msg#:11680 *GENERAL* 12-18-88 11:57:39 From: PELLERVO KASKINEN To: JIM NELSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 11376 (IEEE-488) All right, I'll try to dig out the code. The material is in HSForth. The application was to verify our file transfer from a hard disk where it was put by a data acquisition system we were building to an IBM PC compatible 360 kbyte floppy. Both the hard disk and the floppy were using IEEE-488 bus with HP protocol called SS/80. Stands for SubSet/80 and 8TH|~?~?is not documented per se. The whole set is CS/80 and the documentation for it is available from HP. So, we had to play to some extent by the ear (or should I say by the eye?) in deeming the results. This phase of the work relied on a board from MetraByte that was plugged in a PC-AT and was used until we got our own system up and running. The MetraByte board uses a NEC chip, while our own design used a TI chip. I am not sure about any additional code or code for the TI, because it is imbedded in the application, but that part was done for a 68000 CPU, using MultiForth from Creative Solutions. I have not posted the code anywhere. As a matter of fact, I stopped calling ECFB some time last winter, because I felt like being one of those people Jerry complained about, people who just come and download. I did not feel like having anything to upload and I still think these fragments are nothing to brag about on a dedicated Forth board. . -- PJK Msg#:10654 *GENERAL* 11-29-88 14:33:23 From: NEIL CHERRY To: ALL Subj: ADDRESS Does anybody have the address to logical devices? I need to get information on a chip the l5380 chip. And I have to order 1. Thanks NJC. Msg#:10711 *GENERAL* 11-30-88 09:09:20 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: NEIL CHERRY (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 10654 (ADDRESS) Logic Devices, Inc. 628 East Evelyn Ave. Sunnyvale, CA 94086 (800) 851-0767 (800) 233-2518 (CA) (408) 720-8630 Telex: 172387 Msg#:10725 *GENERAL* 11-30-88 12:32:50 From: NEIL CHERRY To: KEN DAVIDSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 10711 (ADDRESS) Thanks! NJC. Msg#:10657 *GENERAL* 11-29-88 15:33:10 From: TIMOTHY TAYLOR To: ALL Subj: KEYBOARDS/KEYPADS I'm looking for a small (8" x 3") alpha-numeric keyboard. It can be mechanical, capacitive, whatever. Size is the important thing. Ascii encoding would be nice, but not absolutely needed. Does anyone have any suggestions or referrals to a supplier ? Msg#:10658 *GENERAL* 11-29-88 15:53:35 From: RICHARD ANDREWS To: KEN DAVIDSON (Rcvd) Subj: VIDEO IC'S . Quite some time ago I saw a message here about a software compatibl{ replacement for the TI 9118 video chip. The replacement was made by Yamaha. I tried in vain to find a phone number for them, do you or anyone else out there have the info? The Yamaha chip is a 9538. Thanks. . Msg#:10708 *GENERAL* 11-30-88 09:02:20 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: RICHARD ANDREWS (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 10658 (VIDEO IC'S) I remember the reference, but we don't have a Yamaha data book here. Maybe someone else can help. Msg#:10732 *GENERAL* 11-30-88 16:54:30 From: RICHARD ANDREWS To: KEN DAVIDSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 10708 (VIDEO IC'S) . I'm not surprised, I can't find Yamaha anything, anywhere. Thanks for trying. . Msg#:10726 *GENERAL* 11-30-88 14:11:37 From: NEIL CHERRY To: ALL Subj: INFORMATION. Again I have more questions about address. 1) what is the address for Western Digital, Xebec, and Tandon? Does anybody know what the parameters are for a 5 meg tandon tm 501 hard drive? Thanks for the information so far. NJC P.S. For those who are wondering why all the questions, I'm building a BBS out of bits and pieces that have been donated to me. So far I have the above 5 meg drive a kodak 3.3 meg drive, an Epson 3.5 720k, 1 40 and 1 80 track drive. Anybody else have some old equipment they would like to donate. NJC Msg#:10751 *GENERAL* 12-01-88 00:53:53 From: DAVID LAWSON To: NEIL CHERRY (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 10726 (INFORMATION.) tm501: 306 cylinders 2 heads 35 microsecond step rate minimum 3 millisecond max write precomp off or at cyl 306 reduced write current off or at cyl 306 that should be enough for any hd controller to know. if your controller asks for interleav..answer 1:1 Msg#:10730 *GENERAL* 11-30-88 16:16:26 From: JORGEN NORDQVIST To: ALL Subj: HARD DRIVE PROBLEMS I have a MiniScribe Model 3425 HDD, which has started to behave strangely. When starti}ing up the computer~r}i, the drive motor starts to spin, but stops after a while. The i/KLED on the frontpanel does then blink - three short blinks, two long blinks and three short blinks. Somewhere in the BYTE magazine I read that this blinking is a code indicating the problem area. The blinking continues until I switch off the computer. I have replaced the circuit board sitting under the HD, with a new one but this has not helped. Can any of you hardware gurus out there give me a hint ?? Regards, Jorgen ... Msg#:10862 *GENERAL* 12-03-88 01:51:58 From: KEN LOGSDON To: JORGEN NORDQVIST Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 10730 (HARD DRIVE PROBLEMS) The Miniscribes flash an error code when they detect an internal fault; the code is basically a long LED-on for a '1' and a flashing LED for '0', and there should be five bits indicated - in your message, you only indicate 4 - flashing, long, long, flashing. In the 3053's, 6053's, and similar drives, a 6 error equates to loss of '+ FINE TK' during idle mode, whatever that means. Regardless of the fault, it is definitely an internal failure and the drive should be replaced, or sent back for repairs. Msg#:10742 *GENERAL* 11-30-88 21:37:58 From: JOHN COOK To: STEVE CIARCIA AND ED NISLEY Subj: STEPPER MOTOR ARTICLE Guys, just a fast thanks for your article in CCInk on figuring out how to use an unmarked stepper motor. I got one just yesterday and thanks to your article I was able to decode the wiring in under 10 mins with only a ohmmeter and get it working. Now with some 2n2222s and a 4 output state machine i can get it to step around no trouble. Thanks for a really helpful and informative article! -JDC Msg#:10915 *GENERAL* 12-04-88 09:21:29 From: ED NISLEY To: JOHN COOK (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 10742 (STEPPER MOTOR ARTICLE) Tah Dah! That's why we write these articles -- people can actually do something with the information. Better than spreadsheet reveiews, eh? Msg#:10940 *GENERAL* 12-04-88 22:23:37 From: JOHN COOK To: ED NISLEY (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 10915 (STEPPER MOTOR ARTICLE) You said it! On a continuing note, i figured out the logic for single stepping, all u need is 4 master-slave flip-flops and some driver transistors and you're in business. One of the simplest circuits ive done. Now I can see why steppers are used in disk drives, they are so easy to drive its unreal! -JDC Msg#:10950 *GENERAL* 12-05-88 05:34:07 From: GARY LEAR To: ED NISLEY (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 10915 (STEPPER MOTOR ARTICLE) Ed, John Cook sounds *very* happy with the simplicity of stepper motor driver circuits. When are you going to rain on his parade and tell him about trying to run a stepper so fast that it locks up and won't run at all? Or about the *wonderful* slewing methods needed to partially overcome this problem (and since we are mostly electrical and software people here, maybe we shouldn't mention the mechanical problems with inertial and resistive loads). Lastly, *I* would like a detailed description of microstepping techniques. It was a very good article, but unfortunately for you, it has wet our appetites for the "hard core" stuff. Please keep up the great work (but how about a "newer" microcontroller: i.e. 68HC11 :-) ) and I hope John (or anybody else) doesn't take these comments negatively. :-) Regards, Gary. Msg#:10974 *GENERAL* 12-05-88 09:33:03 From: STEVE CIARCIA To: GARY LEAR (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 10950 (STEPPER MOTOR ARTICLE) As much as I'd like to present projects for every processor on the market, it is impossible. The 68HC11 is one I'd like to use but I have no one around who want to do software for it. THe bias around here seems to be Intel/Hitachi/Zilog processors. Probably just because we/they are used to them (sorry, the non-motorola Hitachi processors). Through CC INK we will have contributions from others who have their own biases. Together we'll cover the world. The Dec '88 CC INK has a 6809 project if it is of an interest :-) --Steve Msg#:11023 *GENERAL* 12-06-88 03:55:25 From: GARY LEAR To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 10974 (STEPPER MOTOR ARTICLE) My original bias was also Intel/Zilog (circa 1977 - 1987). And in many ways I think Zilog still makes some of the best processors in the world. But when I started my museum robot project and had difficulty finding an inexpensive development package, Motorola came to my rescue. I have since discovered that I like the 68HC11 immensely. I would be interested in writing the software for any project that you might have for the HC11, since as I already stated, I have the necessary development tools. Ken Logsdon (also a user of this board) and I are working on a proposal for Curtis Franklin for a couple of projects using the 68HC11, stay tuned. --Gary Msg#:11043 *GENERAL* 12-06-88 10:20:36 From: STEVE CIARCIA To: GARY LEAR (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 11023 (STEPPER MOTOR ARTICLE) Stay in touch with Curt. That's the best place for 68HC11 right now. --Steve Msg#:11057 *GENERAL* 12-06-88 12:39:01 From: RICHARD ANDREWS To: GARY LEAR (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 10950 (STEPPER MOTOR ARTICLE) . How much did the development package for the 68HC11 set you back? It sounds interesting. Msg#:11087 *GENERAL* 12-07-88 07:01:14 From: GARY LEAR To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 11043 (STEPPER MOTOR ARTICLE) I haven't sent him a message as of yet. Since this is a joint effort, I need Ken Logsdon's approval before making any schedule commitments (at least for the specific articles he and I discussed, I am currently available for software tasks). Thanks for the comment. --Gary Msg#:11089 *GENERAL* 12-07-88 07:07:17 From: GARY LEAR To: RICHARD ANDREWS (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 11057 (STEPPER MOTOR ARTICLE) You will turn green with envy: I got mine for free! I am working on a project for a museum and Mot decided to donate one to me. It was a good thing too, since at that time they only sold them to schools. I understand that they are now available for $500 retail and about half that for schools. Let me know if you need more details. --Gary Msg#:11110 *GENERAL* 12-07-88 11:21:02 From: RICHARD ANDREWS To: GARY LEAR (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 11089 (STEPPER MOTOR ARTICLE) . You're right, I am green with envy. Could you give me a phone number or an address where I can get more info on it? Thanks. Msg#:11163 *GENERAL* 12-08-88 19:10:08 From: MARK LAMPKIN To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 10974 (STEPPER MOTOR ARTICLE) Steve...Need Motorola software people....I'll volunteer....Mark Msg#:11179 *GENERAL* 12-09-88 03:46:13 From: GARY LEAR To: RICHARD ANDREWS (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 11110 (STEPPER MOTOR ARTICLE) Sure. Unfortunately, I don't have it in front of me, but I will get back to you shortly. --Gary Msg#:11187 *GENERAL* 12-09-88 08:48:10 From: RICHARD ANDREWS To: GARY LEAR (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 11179 (STEPPER MOTOR ARTICLE) . Thanks, I appreciate it. Msg#:11291 *GENERAL* 12-11-88 17:54:22 From: ED NISLEY To: JOHN COOK (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 10940 (STEPPER MOTOR ARTICLE) You got it... and if you've got a microcontroller lying around in the project for something else, you can add a bunch of features without half trying. (Well, it's a simple matter of software...) Msg#:11292 *GENERAL* 12-11-88 17:56:05 From: ED NISLEY To: GARY LEAR (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 10950 (STEPPER MOTOR ARTICLE) Well... now that we've got the introductory stuff out of the way, perhaps we'll have to do an article on the grisly details. Actually, I've been thinking about tackling some of that in the Firmware Furnace sometime late next year: all the things that go wrong just when you think you know what you're doing! Msg#:11306 *GENERAL* 12-11-88 20:01:18 From: JIM NELSON To: JOHN COOK (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 10940 (STEPPER MOTOR ARTICLE) Another reason steppers were chosen for disk drive head positioning is because when steppers are matched with a properly designed mechanical system they may be reliably positioned open loop, i.e., without expensive position feedback. Msg#:11310 *GENERAL* 12-11-88 21:28:06 From: JOHN COOK To: ED NISLEY (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 11292 (STEPPER MOTOR ARTICLE) Speaking of microprocessor control.... I've still got that Radio -E addressable UART project kicking around, sometime this break im gonna get the darn thing working and have some fun. only problem with it is I can only send a 7 bit word so that kindof limits things. Anyways..... Msg#:11311 *GENERAL* 12-11-88 21:41:58 From: JOHN COOK To: JIM NELSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 11306 (STEPPER MOTOR ARTICLE) That makes good sense, esp since theres not a lot of unknowns inside a disk drive as far as mechanics is concerned. About a year ago I was at the Boston Science Museum (a great place) and they had a group of robot arms building lincoln log houses from plans that you could enter via a simple cad station. They needed lots of visual feedback because the arms could slip a little here and there. The way they did it was to put some white dots on the arms and have a downlooking camera "see" the dots so the minicomputer driving the whole thing knew exactly where the arms where. Its something worth seeing if you have the time. Msg#:11320 *GENERAL* 12-12-88 06:37:29 From: GARY LEAR To: ED NISLEY (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 11292 (DRAM IN MICROCONTROLLERS) Amen to that! As yet another topic for an article, how about the good, the bad, and the ugly of using dynamic memories in processor designs? In particular, microcontrollers. That should be enough to scare everyone awake. Thanks for the reply and please keep the interseting stuff coming. --Regards, Gary. Msg#:11321 *GENERAL* 12-12-88 06:42:04 From: GARY LEAR To: JIM NELSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 11306 (STEPPER MOTOR ARTICLE) Jim, you nailed it on the head again! But the key is "properly designed mechanical system". Even a system that works great in the lab (just like our electronic stuff! :-) ) doesn't always do as well in production. --Gary Msg#:11322 *GENERAL* 12-12-88 06:47:26 From: GARY LEAR To: JOHN COOK (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 11311 (STEPPER MOTOR ARTICLE) That robot setup was supposed to be part of the traveling exhibit "Robots and Beyond : The Age of Intelligent Machines". The whole thing was scheduled to travel across the country. For some reason the log cabin part didn't make all of the trip (I know so much about this because I am building a robot for a portion of the exhibit). Glad you enjoyed it, it is one of the most popular museum exhibits in years. --Gary Msg#:11362 *GENERAL* 12-12-88 14:12:34 From: NEIL CHERRY To: ED NISLEY (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 11291 (DRAM IN MICROCONTROLLERS) DRAMS in Microcontrollers, AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAGH! NJC Msg#:11383 *GENERAL* 12-12-88 19:59:29 From: ED NISLEY To: JOHN COOK (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 11310 (STEPPER MOTOR ARTICLE) Damn the torpedoes! Full speed ahead! After all, TTY code used only half a dozen bits for the longest time... you've got fully 33% more. Msg#:11384 *GENERAL* 12-12-88 20:00:42 From: ED NISLEY To: NEIL CHERRY (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 11362 (DRAM IN MICROCONTROLLERS) A rousing chorus of Aaaaamen! Msg#:11408 *GENERAL* 12-13-88 05:14:11 From: GARY LEAR To: ED NISLEY (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 11384 (DRAM IN MICROCONTROLLERS) What's the matter with you guys Ed? Have you ever tried to use a microcontroller in a speech system (even with the ADPCM that Steve talked about) and then had to figure out what spare bedroom to put the static memories in? Dynamics aren't THAT bad. Using them with your favorite 8051 could almost be called simple. Gee, what a racket this caused! :-) --Gary Msg#:11422 *GENERAL* 12-13-88 09:22:56 From: NEIL CHERRY To: GARY LEAR (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 11408 (DRAM IN MICROCONTROLLERS) Normally if I need a lot of memory I use 2 32k stat rams. They definitly take up less space than 8 or 9 dyno rams and the needed circuits. NJC Msg#:11463 *GENERAL* 12-14-88 06:28:05 From: GARY LEAR To: NEIL CHERRY (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 11422 (DRAM IN MICROCONTROLLERS) I use the 32K chips as well. But the project that I have in mind needs at least a meg and preferably 4 megs. It is simply not practical to use statics in this kind of volume. What justifies using a microcontroller at all is the memory is not directly addressed in the conventional sense ( most of my controller designs use 8K or less, 2K - 4K is common for me) but acts more like a disk drive, bubble memory, or other mass storage medium. I would prefer to maintain the random access nature of the memory. Maybe we should change the topic of this discussion, no one will ever find it under stepper motors. :-) --Gary Msg#:11493 *GENERAL* 12-14-88 20:55:06 From: ED NISLEY To: GARY LEAR (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 11408 (DRAM IN MICROCONTROLLERS) C'mon, now. I only work on the simple projects... ones that don't need any memory at all. Least of all, from me. Hmph. Msg#:11515 *GENERAL* 12-15-88 04:29:08 From: GARY LEAR To: ED NISLEY (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 11493 (DRAM IN MICROCONTROLLERS) I hope you're not suggesting that *I* have to do my own development work on this one! Simple is a relative term, some of your software looks simple to some people, but others think in terms of the sorcerer's apprentice and other black magic skills (justifiably so too :-) ). This would make a fun project, but I am not sure that I have the requisite skill (confidence, more likely) to go it alone. Keep up the good stuff. --Gary Msg#:11552 *GENERAL* 12-16-88 02:54:34 From: ERIC BOHLMAN To: GARY LEAR (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 11321 (STEPPER MOTOR ARTICLE) >Even a system that works great in the lab doesn't always do as well in production. You can say that again!!!!!!!!!! However, try explaining that to the client who got hit by one of those problems that doesn't show up until after volume production starts up (15 samples (not prototypes) work ok, and then the whole thing turns out to be sensitive to batch variations on a noncritical coupling capacitor), especially when said client sat on the design for several months after getting the samples and now HAS to have the production units right away because he's now got orders. OF COURSE it's the consultant's fault, right? Msg#:11653 *GENERAL* 12-17-88 16:37:26 From: ED NISLEY To: GARY LEAR (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 11515 (DRAM IN MICROCONTROLLERS) Black magic? Piffle! I specialize in the 555 nm band, with occasional forays up around 900 nm. Sometimes we must to work around 666 nm, but I take special precautions whenever that's needed. Sure, you get to do your own development work... if you want cookbook instructions, there are lots of, ah, popular magzines around. Right? You come to INK because they don't give you enough challenge! Msg#:11654 *GENERAL* 12-17-88 16:37:55 From: ED NISLEY To: ERIC BOHLMAN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 11552 (STEPPER MOTOR ARTICLE) Absolutely! You've forgotten the First Rule of Consulting: It Is Always The Consultant's Fault. After all, if it was the client's fault, they wouldn't have hired you in the first place... Msg#:12357 *GENERAL* 01-04-89 23:23:37 From: GARY LEAR To: ERIC BOHLMAN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 11552 (STEPPER MOTOR ARTICLE) Consultants are always at fault. Since clients claim we make so much money to begin with (ignoring the loss of benefits) and they insist that we hurry, so as not to make much of that money, and of course they then ignore our caveats (not enough analysis, no production data, etc.). The only fault a consultant really makes is being a consultant! --Gary Msg#:10745 *GENERAL* 11-30-88 23:14:10 From: WESLY BERNEBERG To: ALL Subj: AXIOM PRINTERS I recently picked up an Axiom SLP dual mode printer from a friend. It has only one problem. It needs a new print head. I tried to contact the company but to no avail. If anyone knows where I could get parts for this printer I would appreciate it very much. The users guide has a part number for the manual as 37403101-9A00. Also the printer is refered to in the manual as a GLP. Thank you for your help. Msg#:10752 *GENERAL* 12-01-88 01:24:32 From: BRIAN YEE To: ALL Subj: 8751 AVAILABILITY For anyone building the Circuit Cellar supercomputer or anyone who uses 8751H's, I have several tubes of 8751H's available at $22 each, or $17 each in quantities of ten or more. This is less than half the price of most mail-order houses. The chips have been functionally tested and work well. They were pullouts from production units (for firmware upgrades) and were only used once. Contact: Brian Yee 4870 Mendota Street Union City, Ca. 94587 (415) 487-3507 Msg#:10759 *GENERAL* 12-01-88 06:05:12 From: MARK LAMPKIN To: BRIAN YEE (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 10752 (8751 AVAILABILITY) Brian...Can you give me some more info on the chips....What spec's?...We might want all of them...Mark...... Msg#:10884 *GENERAL* 12-03-88 15:14:05 From: BRIAN YEE To: MARK LAMPKIN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 10759 (8751 AVAILABILITY) Mark: These are 8751H's in both the gold and ceramic packages that were from field upgrades. All of the chips have been tested and function ok. I am selling them because I bought them by the lot and only need a few of them. These are very good prices on these chips, which sell new for about $50 each. I have ten tubes I need to sell. Let me know if you are interested, and I can work a better deal for you. Thanks for your interest. Msg#:10885 *GENERAL* 12-03-88 15:24:25 From: BRIAN YEE To: MARK LAMPKIN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 10759 (8751 AVAILABILITY) Mark: I forgot to mention this... there are ten IC's per tube. They have been programmed, tested (11.0592 Mhz clock), and erased. Msg#:10893 *GENERAL* 12-03-88 21:59:29 From: MARK LAMPKIN To: BRIAN YEE (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 10884 (8751 AVAILABILITY) Brian...I am checking with my production manager and expect a reply by Monday...I'll let you know...Thanks...Mark Msg#:10894 *GENERAL* 12-03-88 22:02:11 From: MARK LAMPKIN To: BRIAN YEE (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 10885 (8751 AVAILABILITY) Brian...I know of a problem with the 87C51's that might not exist in the NMOS version...The biggest problem with the CMOS version is that some of the time,even after proper erasure they cannot be reprogrammed....Don't know if thats tru with the 8751H's...Mark Msg#:10897 *GENERAL* 12-03-88 22:38:15 From: BRIAN YEE To: MARK LAMPKIN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 10894 (8751 AVAILABILITY) Mark: Hi, I got your messages. I have not heard of the problem you mentioned about 87C51's. I too would be curious to know if the problem exists with the HMOS version, although so far I have not experienced any problems. See you soon. Brian Msg#:10753 *GENERAL* 12-01-88 02:16:17 From: TONY REYNOLDS To: JONATHAN STOTT (Rcvd) Subj: 68010 STS Jonathan- I've read throught the threads concerning the 68010 in the ST. I'm an ambititious Computer Science student. I want to put a 68010 in my ST- it has a socket now for the 68010, as I've tried it and failed. You typed that you knew 2 people who did it. If you remember their names, please put me in touch with them. Thanks Tony Msg#:10782 *GENERAL* 12-01-88 11:49:38 From: NEIL CHERRY To: TONY REYNOLDS (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 10753 (68010 STS) This is one I've got to hear, I spoke to Motorola and they said that the 68010 would not work inside the ST because the ST uses some code that the 68010 uses and the 68000 is not supposed to. If someone knows of a way to make it work I would be interested because I have a 68010 and a 68020 and 68881. I hope to build the motorola piggyback board to put the 68020 and 68881 into the ST. NJC Msg#:10754 *GENERAL* 12-01-88 02:19:07 From: TONY REYNOLDS To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: 68010S IN STS Hiya! I'm a 5-th year undergrad here at Ole Miss, studying CompSci- I switched from EE after 2 years. I've been reading BYTE since I was 11- November 1977, with Sweet-16 in it. I discovered a remarkable propensity for electronics projects when I found out what my father does for the Air Force - he's not just any electronics technician. Anyway, now that the introduction is over, I thought I'd type at you for a while. I have made the choice of buying an Atari 1040ST - maybe a bad one if I want support, but not too bad since I adore the 68K and can't stand (the) Macintosh Operating System. (Which, I understand, has the ability to lose 32K of stuff at a time when it's MM breaks.) So, I've got this good ol' ST, see, and I've got these 2 68010-8's, see? I desoldered my 68K, and tried the replace-the-68000-with-the-68010 trick, only to be stung by the MOVE SR,ea business! All I want is a VM 68010 O.S. of my very own.... (Guess I should have bought a UNIX PC nee 3B1) I read in an ancient BYTE preview of the 1040 that Atari (or Artari, as they say it around this campus- I'm an Air Force Brat, not a southerner) put an '010 in a 1040. I read on Bix that somebody did this, (then I lost my subscriber agreement, but have just relocated it) and has a Boot Block patch. I looked around Bix, and nowhere was this patch. A friend of mine, Benjie Quintana, said I might be able to find it here. THAT'S WHY I'M BUGGING YOU! (Sing it,Steve) If you've got the patch.... I've got the uP- Moto uP!!!!!!! Now, for some of my ideas for the Circuit Cellar.... (I bet you get these from just about everybody, and I'm willing to bet that most people make some kind of "just about everybody" remark!) How about a version of your Mandelbrot Engine that utilizes the Multiprocessor capabilities of the MicroChannel? (I think the M.E. blows away the school's ancient CDC Cyber 205!) What about a CGA GenLock? "Blow Commodore and Atari out of the water with one Volkswagon-sized Nuclear PC-Board." A Simple Hardware Debugger for PC's, that can monitor the instruction stream and cause interrupts upon the execution of certain instructions. Atron and Periscope wouldn't like you very much then, would they? How do I convince my mother that Ham radio antennas do not "cause" lighting- Dad decided to stay out of this one... and I got to let my Novice License lapse into a Stephen Hawking Black Hole. I was KA5NQT for 5 big years. My best friend and I tested on the same day, and his call sign is KA5NTQ. Some Illuminatus was at work here.... Thanks for reading this garbage, and respond if you can.-Tony G# 5375 (VIDEO AND P.S. Please Delete this message upon Receipt Thanks-TR Msg#:10777 *GENERAL* 12-01-88 10:07:41 From: STEVE CIARCIA To: TONY REYNOLDS (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 10754 (68010S IN STS) Sorry I can't answer your atari questions but perhaps someone else around here can. Thanks for your ideas. --Steve Msg#:10755 *GENERAL* 12-01-88 02:34:48 From: BRIAN YEE To: PAUL HUTTON Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 6168 (8751 PROGRAMMING) As far as I can determine, the MCT-P does not work with 8751's. I bought one and it didn't work, and had to return it. Msg#:10808 *GENERAL* 12-02-88 01:07:13 From: TONY REYNOLDS To: NEIL CHERRY (Rcvd) Subj: 68010 STS Neil- Can't type long, but check out the interview with Shivji in March 87 BYTE(maybe 86). 5-10%faster would be 5-10% faster! If anybody who reads this has a patch to make the ST work with the '010, TELL ME! PLEASE! Tony Msg#:10844 *GENERAL* 12-02-88 12:29:49 From: NEIL CHERRY To: TONY REYNOLDS (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 10808 (68010 STS) I thought he was stating that it could make it 5 - 10 % faster? But I'll check since I have a library across the street. NJC Msg#:10887 *GENERAL* 12-03-88 17:46:04 From: TONY REYNOLDS To: NEIL CHERRY (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 10844 (68010 STS) Doesn't matter. I don't want speed. I want VM and coprocessor space. I'll live with the speed, though. Shivji said it improved performance ..."Not that much." No numbers (March '86) But, all I want is that silly boot block thing. I've been thinking of ways to do it myself- all I want to know is where does the boot block code start execution at, so I can set my ORG in my assembler! Tony Msg#:10810 *GENERAL* 12-02-88 02:02:00 From: JON CARMICHAEL To: WAYNE J. CLEWELL (Rcvd) Subj: ROBOTICS BBSS Wayne: The Continuum BBS in San Francisco is a special interest board in motion Control and Data Acquisition. The number is 415-755-1524 and is pursuitable. Give it a call. Jon C. Sysop Msg#:10931 *GENERAL* 12-04-88 15:45:38 From: WAYNE J. CLEWELL To: JON CARMICHAEL (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 10810 (ROBOTICS BBSS) THANKS JON, I'LL GIVE THEM A CALL -- WAYNE -- Msg#:10815 *GENERAL* 12-02-88 02:17:22 From: GREG BELL To: ALL Subj: NETTING Has someone ever thought of netting this GREAT board with Fido net or WWIV net or the PC Board net?? Or maybe an 800 number? I'm dying from phone-bill shock. I know about PC pursuit, but $25 a month is more than I'm paying now. Also, would it be possible for me to send a floppy and have it stuffed with the messages for the month? That would also save $$. The netting idea, though, is much more intriguing. I guess I'm just looking for a way to use this board without paying an arm and a leg in LD ever month. Last month, my bill was $130! Arg! Only $15 of that was CC calls, but cutting anything will help. .GBell Msg#:10832 *GENERAL* 12-02-88 09:14:02 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: GREG BELL (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 10815 (NETTING) Linking up with something like Fidonet would likely spell disaster around here. We have our hands full just keeping up with the message traffic as it is. Net access to thousands more people would result in overload (on staff, not equipment). We may do something like that eventually, but not now. Do you subscribe to INK? If so, look at the end of the ConnecTime section in either issue #5 or #6. We are offering two months worth of messages on disk (actually three disks) for $15. Every two months (corresponding to an issue of INK) there is a new set of disks. Software from each issue is also available on disk for $12. I still have to post all this on the board somewhere... Your $15 worth of calls here is nothing. I just received a message from someone calling from Australia looking for ways to reduce his charges. His last phone bill was $450 U.S. If more of your bill besides the $15 is from calling other long-distance BBSs, the $25 for PC Pursuit may still be worth it. Msg#:10816 *GENERAL* 12-02-88 02:17:55 From: GREG BELL To: ALL Subj: ARTIC TECHNOLOGIES Does anybody have the address for Artic Technologies? They're the ones who now carry the SSI-263. GBell Msg#:10818 *GENERAL* 12-02-88 02:34:22 From: BRAD MAJORS To: ANYONE Subj: SINGLE BOARD COMPUTER I AM LOOKING FOR A P.C. BOARD OR ETCH PATTERN FOR A SINGL BOARD COMPUTER THAT IS LOW POWER , 24 OR 28 PIN EPROM AND RAM Z80 OR 8080 INSTRUCTION SET, I/O P OR S. BRAD MAJORS STAR ROUTE BOX 404 , DUNSMUIR, CA 96025 916-235-2536 THANX. Msg#:10895 *GENERAL* 12-03-88 22:10:25 From: MARK LAMPKIN To: BRAD MAJORS Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 10818 (SINGLE BOARD COMPUTER) Brad....I have about 50 or 75 boards that use the 80C85,81C55,27C64 and a few 74HC or HCT parts....They are left over from an industrial controller I designed and sold a few years ago....The bus is brought out on a 34 pin ribbon cale connector and can be expantes....Also room for a 6116 RAM on-board....Let me know if you want a couple...They can be stuffed for about $10 in parts for a complete controller....Mark... Msg#:10825 *GENERAL* 12-02-88 04:11:57 From: GARY LEAR To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: IR PLASTICS Steve, I got the impression from some of the message threads that you were looking for an IR transparent plastic or similar material. When I used to work for DEC on the east coast we had a problem with paper tape readers. Dust contamination and ambient light caused excessive errors in our readers. The solution that someone finally came up with was to encase the read head in an IR transparent material. More specifically, polysulfone. I discovered that TI later used the same material to house cheap IR opto devices. You should be able to find it in sheet form at most well stocked plastic houses. If you can't find it or it doesn't do what you want, Forrest Mims III recommends Kodak wratten filters in his optoelectronic books (wratten #87, is I believe what is recommended for near IR). Most professional camera stores carry these filters. I hope I didn't misinterpret te messases I saw. Regards, Gary Msg#:10836 *GENERAL* 12-02-88 09:23:44 From: STEVE CIARCIA To: GARY LEAR (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 10825 (IR PLASTICS) Thanks, I have some of that Kodak 87C IR material on order. What Forest Mimms neglected to mention however was that it is $200 for a 16"x20" sheet !! I'll check into polysulfone but a REAL mfr part number help a lot more when trying to deal with "plastics people". --Steve Msg#:10863 *GENERAL* 12-03-88 01:58:41 From: GARY LEAR To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 10836 (IR PLASTICS) It has been some time (10 or 12 years) since I have purchased any of wratten filter material, and at that time a 3"x3" sheet cost $5. I just did a quick calculation of your $200 sheet and the two compare within 15% or so. I will check for a specific part number on the polysulfone material. I agree that some retail or even wholesale distributors don't know enough about their product lines to know who manufactures what. If you have a chance please send me some idea of what you are looking for in terms of wavelength, permissible transmission loss, and desired physical dimensions (you might also hint at what you are doing :-) ). --Gary P.S. The scanner data is still coming. Msg#:10923 *GENERAL* 12-04-88 14:18:28 From: STEVE CIARCIA To: GARY LEAR (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 10863 (IR PLASTICS) The IR plastic will be used with 780 nm IR laser diodes. Any pieces larger than 2"x2" are acceptable and I suppose the pass band is any wavelength longer than 750 nm (wouldn't pass visible light). In truth, however, the stuff I am really looking for is plastic that is 1/16" or thicker and not celophane like the Kodak 87C material. --Steve Msg#:10949 *GENERAL* 12-05-88 05:16:04 From: GARY LEAR To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 10923 (IR PLASTICS) I will have to check the published specs on polysulfone, we were using it at closer to a micron (940 nm). The plastic comes in your desired thickness, so that isn't a problem. What about surface reflections and related phenomena, do you have any special requirements for overall optical pathway efficency? I may have a scrap enclosure (left over from some experiments) that you could use for testing purposes if you are interested. Please let me know. I will get back to you with more data shortly. --Gary Msg#:10969 *GENERAL* 12-05-88 09:17:58 From: STEVE CIARCIA To: GARY LEAR (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 10949 (IR PLASTICS) Sorry, but I'm still in the experimental stages so many of those considerations have now arisen yet. If you do have a piece to play with, however, you would make my life easier. No doubt I will have to order a 4'x8' sheet otherwise. --Steve Msg#:11022 *GENERAL* 12-06-88 03:38:48 From: GARY LEAR To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 10969 (IR PLASTICS) I found a small enclosure today that we used to surround the photodiode array (approx dimensions 2" x 1.25" x 0.5", suitable for framing). Where would you like me to send it? --Gary Msg#:11042 *GENERAL* 12-06-88 10:18:50 From: STEVE CIARCIA To: GARY LEAR (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 11022 (IR PLASTICS) If anyone wants to send anything to me, THe best address is CC INK: Steve Ciarcia Circuit Cellar INK Suite 20 4 Park St. Vernon, CT 06066 and, our FAX number is 203-872-2204. --Steve Msg#:11086 *GENERAL* 12-07-88 06:54:34 From: GARY LEAR To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 11042 (IR PLASTICS) I'm a little tied up (bedrest, actually) right now, but maybe I can get someone to mail the sample for me. At any rate, you should have the enclosure in a couple of weeks at most and probably much sooner. --Gary Msg#:11101 *GENERAL* 12-07-88 09:08:07 From: STEVE CIARCIA To: GARY LEAR (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 11086 (IR PLASTICS) Thanks --Steve Msg#:11178 *GENERAL* 12-09-88 03:44:27 From: GARY LEAR To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 11101 (IR PLASTICS) Please let me know what kind of results you end up with. Looking forward to another great article. --Gary Msg#:10847 *GENERAL* 12-02-88 16:28:14 From: BOB PADDOCK To: ALL Subj: 128K X 8 RAMS? Does any one know of a source for production quanitys of 128K by 8 CMOS static RAMs in a 32 pin package? Hybreds or monolitic are both ok. 120 nS. I had been using the Mosel 88128, but they decided to redezine, and now I can't get any. Isn't this industury great, not only do you have to know how to dezine the stuff, you also have to become an expert on international trade agreements, just so you can actual get parts...... By production quanitys I mean 100 parts per month for the next few years.. Msg#:10853 *GENERAL* 12-02-88 20:40:36 From: DAVID LAWSON To: BOB PADDOCK (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 10847 (128K X 8 RAMS?) me again..there is a company in austin called tessco..they do that type of stuff..ive got their phone number but its in microsoft windows and i'm not running under the window environment right now..how foolish of me, i know!!.. i'll get it and post it to you.. i think they do this custom but i'm sure they will have an answer. Msg#:10869 *GENERAL* 12-03-88 06:39:32 From: JIM NELSON To: BOB PADDOCK (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 10847 (128K X 8 RAMS?) Electronic Designs, Inc. ( 35 South St. Hopkinton, MA 01748; 617/435-9077 ) manufactures and sells a lot of hybrids like the 128 KByte part you want. Last time I needed them they were distributed by T & T Products, Inc. ( Murray Snow, 1255 La Quinta Drive, Ste. 218, Orlando, FL 32809; 305/857-2282 or 800/645-2667 i.e. 800/MIL-CMOS ). By the way, their prices are astronomical. Don't say I never did anything for you. What are you doing with this memory? Msg#:10873 *GENERAL* 12-03-88 11:45:56 From: BOB PADDOCK To: JIM NELSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 10869 (128K X 8 RAMS?) I've asked for speck sheets on the EDI parts many times, they never araive, and the last price I saw from them was about 7 times we were paying for the Mosel parts. We use the memory in a lot of 68000 equipment, mostly for industral controls for the coal mining industry. Msg#:10904 *GENERAL* 12-04-88 04:36:28 From: GARY LEAR To: BOB PADDOCK (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 10847 (128K X 8 RAMS?) Bob, you might check with IDT (Integrated Device Technology). I know that they make such a device, but it may be considerably faster (and thus more expensive) than you need. Their California main number is (408) 727-6116. You might also check with Cypress. In the past IDT has concentrated on the military market, they now tell me that they are expanding into the commercial sector and becoming more cost competitive. Good luck. --Gary Msg#:10861 *GENERAL* 12-03-88 00:52:58 From: BRUCE WEBB To: ALL Subj: AT SERIAL PORT PROBLEMS I am using an AT Clone with a Multi IO board. The board has a parallel port, a game port,and a serial port with an optional second serial port. The serial port works fine with the NS16450N chip that came with the board, but not with replacement chips I have purchased. I have tried every conceivable combination of Serial Chips, including different vendors, either chip socket, and one or both chips installed. Usually, the chip works for a few seconds and quits, though sometimes it doesn't work at all. Does anyone know if there are different versions of the 16450 ? My CPU is running at 10MHz, NO WAIT STATES. Anyone else experience this ? Please help. I don't want to buy a new serial board (especially since this one works, with the chip it came with). ANY help is appreciated. Bruce Msg#:10906 *GENERAL* 12-04-88 04:51:21 From: GARY LEAR To: BRUCE WEBB (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 10861 (AT SERIAL PORT PROBLEMS) Does the chip still function after it is removed from your board? In other words, do you have a way to test the functionality of the 16450? Since the Western Digital WD8250 is the part used in the original IBM serial port it seems likely that the National part is at least identical from a software point of view. I have more data at work, please let me know if you are still experiencing the problem and/or would like specs on the two chips. Good luck. --Gary Msg#:10921 *GENERAL* 12-04-88 13:56:24 From: BRUCE WEBB To: GARY LEAR (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 10906 (AT SERIAL PORT PROBLEMS) The board came with one chip that works fine in either socket. None of the replacement chips (I've bought several) work consistantly. I can't believe all of the new chips are bad. I thought maybe there was a high speed version, or something -- I'm running at 10Mhz. ANY help, spec sheets or anything would be appreciated. Bruce. Msg#:10935 *GENERAL* 12-04-88 17:24:29 From: JACK PERGAL To: BRUCE WEBB (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 10921 (AT SERIAL PORT PROBLEMS) The original chip was probably hand picked to run at the speed of your bus. You probably need a high speed type of chip, National now makes a 16550 which, I think, is a faster version of the 16450. Jack Msg#:10946 *GENERAL* 12-04-88 23:13:33 From: BRUCE WEBB To: JACK PERGAL (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 10935 (AT SERIAL PORT PROBLEMS) Thanks. What about availability ? Where would I find such a thing. And what are all those other AT serial boards stuffed with ? More hand--picked chips ? Hmmm. Has anyone else out there experienced this kind of a problem ? Bruce. Msg#:10948 *GENERAL* 12-05-88 05:07:07 From: GARY LEAR To: BRUCE WEBB (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 10921 (AT SERIAL PORT PROBLEMS) Bruce, my board contains the Western Digital chip that I mentioned before. As I have designed several of my own serial boards (albeit, mostly for straight PC's) with this chip, I know it works fine up to 8 MHz at least. I will be back at work sometime this week and I will look up both chips for you. Good luck. --Gary Msg#:11015 *GENERAL* 12-05-88 23:46:06 From: JACK PERGAL To: BRUCE WEBB (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 10946 (AT SERIAL PORT PROBLEMS) Bruce, I don't know if you mentioned how many wait states you are running with, but if it's zero try to add a wait state and then try the chips that didn't work again. Your bus may be going to fast for the chips.As for the 16550 It's a National chip, I checked my Arrow catalog and they don't carry it,but one of the big distributors does have it can't remeber which one. This is a hot topic in the Fido Comm Echo. Jack Msg#:11135 *GENERAL* 12-07-88 19:27:48 From: BRUCE WEBB To: GARY LEAR (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 10948 (AT SERIAL PORT PROBLEMS) Thanks for the help. Bruce. Msg#:11136 *GENERAL* 12-07-88 19:29:40 From: BRUCE WEBB To: JACK PERGAL (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 11015 (AT SERIAL PORT PROBLEMS) Thanks for the suggestion. I am running with NO wait states -- of course some things run FASTER that way !! I'll try that right away -- and let you know. Bruce Msg#:10871 *GENERAL* 12-03-88 09:13:29 From: STEVEN HIRSCH To: BOB PADDOCK (Rcvd) Subj: MT SERIES CHIPS Thanks for the tip! I chased down the New England Mitel rep, and learned that the 8809 and 8816 are brand new parts. They will be available in small quantities by late January 1989.. too late for me. The MT8812 is a current part, available off-the-shelf now. We are considering using it instead of the almost-unavailable RCA part. I would assume that RCA, like most US companies, really doesn't care about anything but the LATEST, HOTTEST, sellers. No wonder we are losing the trade wars, but that's what happens when bean counters determine sales policy. Has anyone had any experience with A-Bus? I had a long talk with their engineering staff, and it looks like a good, cheap way to setup a control system. Later! Msg#:10882 *GENERAL* 12-03-88 12:52:02 From: PAUL BERG To: ALL Subj: CAD\PCB LAYOUT I am looking for a reasonably priced schematic capture/ pcb layout package. First off does anyone know of a comprehensive comparison of the various packages 'out there'. It seems an impossible task to sort through all the hyperbole generated by the marketing people for these packages. Last time I logged on I searched for messages on CAD and found a goodly number of them-- but very few packages actually named. I would be interested in an add-on package that would be compatable with an earlier version of Autocad (2.6) as an alternative to a stand alone program but the few I have heard about seem to cost $$$MORE$$$ than the budget self contained packages. Perhaps somebody knows of a book that describes specific programming ideas for customizing Autocad for electronics work. Any help would be appreciated. Msg#:11078 *GENERAL* 12-07-88 00:06:22 From: TIM WALTERS To: PAUL BERG Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 10882 (CAD\PCB LAYOUT) HI PAUL, I HAVE USED TANGO-PCB AND ORCAD SDT FOR QUITE A WHILE NOW AND BOTH SEEM TO BE EXCELLENT PRODUCTS... TIM Msg#:10883 *GENERAL* 12-03-88 13:23:56 From: JAMES CHRISTOPHER To: ALL Subj: BIOS I am going to be buying an AT clone, and I am wondering which of the major BIOS' are the most compatible, or any information concerning them. I have looked at machines with Phoenix, AWARD, AMI (AIM?) Bios, I have heard there are problems with the Phoenix. I am interested in running OS/2 and I want to know which of these if not all of these are compatible and can run OS/2(with no problems). Any help would be MOST appreciated thanks Chris Msg#:10891 *GENERAL* 12-03-88 20:43:31 From: MARC D'ALOISIO To: JAMES CHRISTOPHER (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 10883 (BIOS) Of the BIOS' you mentioned, we have had _very_ good luck with the award bios. It's my personal first choice. I have run into problems with phoenix, especially in multiuser environments. Msg#:11707 *GENERAL* 12-19-88 01:23:09 From: JAMES CHRISTOPHER To: MARC D'ALOISIO Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 10891 (BIOS) Thanks for the info. I have heard that award is a good bios. Have you heard of the clone manufacturer GTK ? thanks James Msg#:11815 *GENERAL* 12-21-88 18:26:29 From: NATHAN ENGLE To: JAMES CHRISTOPHER (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 11707 (BIOS) I have only heard one possibly negative comment about Award BIOS and that was that it didn't work very well with a Novell Net. That may well have been changed. I have Award in an AT clone and like it a lot (setup program built into ROM, no more fumbling around for the diags disk when you want to run setup) Are you sure about the initials? I haven't heard of GTK but I have heard of DTK. The DTK clone is what they carry at MicroSphere out in Bend, Ore and I understand they think very highly of them. Economical and reliable. Msg#:12100 *GENERAL* 12-30-88 00:33:57 From: JAMES CHRISTOPHER To: NATHAN ENGLE (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 11815 (BIOS) Nathan, your correct about the initials .. I got them goofed up. It was DTK.. I would to thank you for your help.. made my decision on to get the AT clone with the DTK board. thanks James p.s. Have you ever worked with s-100 computers? Msg#:12138 *GENERAL* 12-30-88 21:34:41 From: NATHAN ENGLE To: JAMES CHRISTOPHER (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 12100 (BIOS) I never worked with S100. During the heyday of S100 I was going through school and almost didn't have enough money for that. I was involved with micros first really early at about the beginning of the S100 era, but I was forced out by economics and various other complications. Now I'm back, and of course PCs are the thing right now, so they're what I know the best. After that, I guess my next favorite system is anything running UNIX except for IBM RTs (which are dogged slow). Why do you ask? Got a question or trying to sell any surplus? Msg#:10886 *GENERAL* 12-03-88 15:34:55 From: DALE REID To: ALL Subj: DISK DRIVES I've been intriqued by the interiors of something so "simple" as floppy diskette drives. This was recently heightened by a problem I was having with a 1.2 and .360 meg drive from panasonic not wanting to be in a dual speed mode. The question I have is : ARE THERE ANY STANDARDS? I have yet to see a reveiw article and "all you ever need to know, new engineer, about floppy diskettes, drives, and controllers. " Some time ago I was looking for inside info on how hard controllers work, only to find out that there are no (at least not found) references on the subject. I find it hard to believe that the only way to find out about these things is the a) go to engineeering school and get it from class b) go to work for IBM c)learn by trial ane error on the job. I don't get a lot of the hardware and enegineeering (?) mags any more, but perpahs someone remembers and article or knows of a text that might clear up some of the ins and outs. Any ideas? Thanks Dale Msg#:11264 *GENERAL* 12-11-88 09:44:24 From: PELLERVO KASKINEN To: DALE REID (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 10886 (DISK DRIVES) I have had the same problem. There does not appear to be any literature about the disk drives. A few years ago there was some mentioning in EDN that their Bill Travis (If I remember the name correctly) was writing a comprehensive book about it. I have never seen it published, but I think I saw something along those lines from some other writer advertised in the unclassifieds of the Computer Shopper. Yet, your best bet may be application information for the controller chips that the chip makers have published. And another source of valid information if you can afford it is the Technical Reference ring binders from IBM. . -- PJK Msg#:11430 *GENERAL* 12-13-88 12:48:49 From: TIM CORMIER To: DALE REID (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 10886 (DISK DRIVES) YOU can get a book from Consumertronics co. 2011 crescent dr. po drawer 537, Alamogordo, NM 88310 , called " Disk Service Manual III" which should tell you most of what you want to know the cost is $25.00 or if you leave your address or phone # Ill xerox off a copy and and mail it to you . Tim Msg#:11634 *GENERAL* 12-17-88 11:55:37 From: DALE REID To: TIM CORMIER (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 11430 (DISK DRIVES) Thanks for the info. If you have a chance, send me the info you have at the following address: Dale Reid Rt. #4, Box 231-L Eau Claire,WI 54701 and I'll take a look to see if it is the "good stuff" and fire off an order. I much appreciate the info. Dale Msg#:11662 *GENERAL* 12-17-88 20:07:31 From: TIM CORMIER To: DALE REID (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 11634 (DISK DRIVES) Dale Ill get that in the mail for you early next week . Tim Msg#:12162 *GENERAL* 12-31-88 14:12:05 From: DALE REID To: TIM CORMIER Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 11662 (DISK DRIVES) Tim, I'd appreciate it VERY much, it might give me another Christmas Gift, --- answers! Dale Msg#:10889 *GENERAL* 12-03-88 19:01:51 From: GREGORY KOSCHARA To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: CCAT BIOS I am trying to find a sourse code listing for the ROM BIOS for the CCAT. I want to do some very low level programing that would make direct uses of the code and data in the BIOS. With out the sourse code and address there is no way I can do this that I know of. A listing that would be simmiler to the listing in the IBM TECHNICAL REFERANCE MANUAL would be most helpful. Any help on this subject would be very nice. Thanks Msg#:10924 *GENERAL* 12-04-88 14:19:42 From: STEVE CIARCIA To: GREGORY KOSCHARA (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 10889 (CCAT BIOS) Sorry, the IBM tech manual might be the only one available. The CCAT bios is owned by AWARD and we don't even have source code. --Steve Msg#:10898 *GENERAL* 12-03-88 23:43:52 From: KENNETH NG To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: RS 232 TO CURRENT LOOP Steve, I am quite sure you have written up one of these circuits before. A friend of mine picked up an ancient Decwriter II terminal/printer that has a current loop interface. He would like me to build an interface so he can use it with a comm port (rs-232) on his pc. Can you give me a reference to a place or two where you have previously done this? Thanks in advance Oh yes, keep up the good work with Circuit Cellar INC! Msg#:10980 *GENERAL* 12-05-88 10:35:42 From: JEFF BACHIOCHI To: KENNETH NG (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 10898 (RS 232 TO CURRENT LOOP) Kenneth, Micromint sells an RS-232 to 20ma converter. The product # is BCC09 an costs $55.00. It requires +5 and +&- 12 volts. jeff Msg#:11045 *GENERAL* 12-06-88 10:28:20 From: STEVE CIARCIA To: KENNETH NG (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 10980 (RS 232 TO CURRENT LOOP) If you are not a company and really just want to build this yourself, I could just send you the BCC09 manual. It is $55 because of it's limited production, not complexity. --Steve Msg#:11081 *GENERAL* 12-07-88 01:16:09 From: KENNETH NG To: JEFF BACHIOCHI (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 10980 (RS 232 TO CURRENT LOOP) I'll forward the message to him, thanks. But if possible I'd still like to see what else has been cooked up over the years. Msg#:11082 *GENERAL* 12-07-88 01:20:35 From: KENNETH NG To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 11045 (RS 232 TO CURRENT LOOP) Steve, how many companies do you know of that still use 300 baud modems and Decwriter II's? On the other hand, you probably would know some company out there :-). I would like the manual. If nothing else it gives me a great excuse to leave software design for a weekend and actually build something. My address is: Kenneth Ng 42 Park Avenue Apt. 26 Bloomfield, NJ 07003 Thanks again. Msg#:11100 *GENERAL* 12-07-88 09:07:20 From: STEVE CIARCIA To: KENNETH NG (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 11082 (RS 232 TO CURRENT LOOP) I used to have a Decwriter II but gave it away after manys years of good service. I believe I included the manual with it but I'll check. Manuals for Decwriters should not be hard to find however. Anyone else out there got one? --Steve Msg#:11103 *GENERAL* 12-07-88 09:26:04 From: NEIL CHERRY To: KENNETH NG (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 11082 (RS 232 TO CURRENT LOOP) How many companies still use Dec writter II and 300 baud modems? Answer: A.P. (Associate press) they still use 34.5, 56, TTY ascii and teletype units from the 1940's and they still run. Though they are replacing these units with computers. And yes they use current loop 20 mA and 60mA. Msg#:10905 *GENERAL* 12-04-88 04:41:40 From: GARY LEAR To: JOSEPH FREEMAN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 10856 (11.0592MHZ CRYSTALS FOR SALE) Joe, I will take 5 (five). How do you wish to arrange the order? Also, what package style are they in? --Gary Msg#:11607 *GENERAL* 12-16-88 20:11:19 From: JOSEPH FREEMAN To: GARY LEAR (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 10905 (11.0592MHZ CRYSTALS FOR SALE) The crystals are the standard metal can with two wires coming out of the bottom. There is no ground wire soldered to the case. I wish I could tell you the body style but I can't find a book with crystal footprints. From above it looks like: /--------\ | | \--------/ Just mail me a check, at $1/crystal, and I will mail them back to you in an envelope. My address is 117 trappers run cary, nc 27513 Msg#:12358 *GENERAL* 01-04-89 23:26:29 From: GARY LEAR To: JOSEPH FREEMAN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 11607 (11.0592MHZ CRYSTALS FOR SALE) I will mail check as soon as I can, but currently in the hospital in traction. Please send some dimensions and I will tell you the case style. --Gary Msg#:11223 *GENERAL* 12-10-88 02:25:46 From: SIMON SABATO To: JOSEPH FREEMAN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 10856 (11.0592MHZ CRYSTALS FOR SALE) I'll take one: should I just send money in an envelope? -Simon Sabato Msg#:11608 *GENERAL* 12-16-88 20:12:27 From: JOSEPH FREEMAN To: SIMON SABATO (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 11223 (11.0592MHZ CRYSTALS FOR SALE) Sure, Just send $1 to Joe Freeman 117 Trappers run Cary, NC 27513 Msg#:10917 *GENERAL* 12-04-88 11:39:28 From: STEVEN HARGUS To: ALL Subj: 8051 FLOATING POINT If anyone is interested, there is a company called U.S. Software that sells a complete floating-point package for 8051, 8086, 8096, 8085, Z-80, 6809, and 68000 processors. The data sheet reads: FPAC/DPAC Floating Point Library * IEEE K-C-S Single and Double Precision Format * Trigonometric Functions * Logarithmic Functions * Data Conversions - ASCII to/from Floating Point * Fully defined error handling * Add, Subtract, Multiply, Divide * Exponentiation Functions * Square Root Functions * Data Conversion - Integer to/from Floating Point * Fully ROMable The FPAC/DPAC Floating Point Library is a library of floating point procedures written in SOURCE assembly language. The FPAC/DPAC Library gives its users immediate access to: basic arithmetic functions (Add, Subtract, Multiply, Divide), Trigonometric Functions (cosine, sine, tangent, arctangent), Exponentiation function, data conversion procedures (ASCII string to/from floating point, word integer to/from floating point), and floating point utility procedures. Because the FPAC/DPAC library is in SOURCE assembly language, it can be customized by its users to fit particular application requirements. With the FPAC/DPAC Floating Point Library, system designers can create their products more quickly, with lower debugging and product life cycle costs, and in conformance with proposed IEEE K-C-S Floating Point Standard. Statistics for various libraries: --------------------------------------------------------------------------- CPU FPAC DPAC FPAC size DPAC size assumptions 8086 $950 $1250 3685 5040 5 MHz 8051 $950 $1250 3750 5055 12 MHz 8085 $950 $1250 3810 4990 5 MHz 8096 $950 $1250 3230 4860 12 MHz Z-80 $950 $1250 3580 4710 6 MHz 6809 $950 ----- 2465 ---- 2 MHz 68000 $950 $1250 3410 4780 8 MHz Sizes are for compiled machine code FPAC Timings (Typical - Maximum in microseconds) CPU Add Subtract Multiply Divide SIN,COS LN 68000 75-80 83-135 99 140 1488 1388 8096 88-110 100-123 89-99 103-111 1450 1600 8086 174-196 200-240 212 372 3600 4000 Z-80 163-227 197-255 693-817 905-1267 6667 7167 8051 260-370 270-490 450-560 Msg#:10951 *GENERAL* 12-05-88 05:38:38 From: GARY LEAR To: STEVEN HARGUS (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 10917 (8051 FLOATING POINT) Do you happen to know if this package is available for the 68HC11? If so what might it cost? (A version for the 6800 might work as well). --Gary Msg#:10982 *GENERAL* 12-05-88 11:02:37 From: TOM CURDA To: GARY LEAR (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 10951 (8051 FLOATING POINT) Gary, there is a floating point package for the 68HC11 on Motorola's FREEWARE BBS. I've been uploading some of the 68HC11 stuff here, and I'll send up the FP package next. Regards, --Tom Msg#:11011 *GENERAL* 12-05-88 20:45:47 From: STEVEN HARGUS To: GARY LEAR (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 10951 (8051 FLOATING POINT) Sorry, but I don't think it is. You might try calling them, though. The phone number that I have is (503)641-8446. Msg#:11026 *GENERAL* 12-06-88 04:05:20 From: GARY LEAR To: TOM CURDA (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 10982 (8051 FLOATING POINT) I have been shouting the FREEWARE theme myself, but I wasn't aware they had a floating point package. Do you know if it handles transcendentals? I guess this goes to show that I should check a BBS that I champion more often for new stuff. Thanks. Regards, Gary. Msg#:11027 *GENERAL* 12-06-88 04:08:01 From: GARY LEAR To: STEVEN HARGUS (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 11011 (8051 FLOATING POINT) Thanks. Check Tom Curda's message to me. It appears that a BBS I know (Motorola's FREEWARE line) has a FP package. --Gary Msg#:11053 *GENERAL* 12-06-88 11:48:23 From: TOM CURDA To: GARY LEAR (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 11026 (8051 FLOATING POINT) I don't know if it will do transcendentals, as I just down-loaded it and haven't had the chance to look at it. I came across it as I was looking for a 68HC11 cross-assembler for a project I'm doing. There are actually 2 or 3 different libraries; I don't know the diffference between them, so I just uploaded them all. Hope they help. Regards, --Tom Msg#:11090 *GENERAL* 12-07-88 07:09:26 From: GARY LEAR To: TOM CURDA (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 11053 (8051 FLOATING POINT) Thanks. As you probably already know, that assembler (for the PC at least) is now available on this board. --Gary Msg#:10918 *GENERAL* 12-04-88 11:45:27 From: STEVEN HARGUS To: ALL Subj: CONTINUATION OF FLOATING POINT MESSAGE Sorry about previous message. Some garbage on the line. The address for U.S. Software is: U.S. Software 14215 NW Science Park Drive Portland, Oregon 97229 (503) 641-8446 International Telex 4993875 (US Software) Prices are $950 for FPAC, $1250 for DPAC, all CPUs They also sell a Multi-Tasking Executives for building your own Operating System for 8086, 8051, 8096, 68000, and Z-80 CPUs. All media shipped on CP/M, DEC, ISIS, or IBM-PC format disks. Msg#:10919 *GENERAL* 12-04-88 13:14:59 From: VIC RICHTER To: ALL Subj: CGA CARD I just purchased a cga card with composite and rgb outputs. I thought that if I took the composite video and ran it thru my vcr's modulator, I would get color on the color tv I have it hooked to....but no, it is only b/w with shades of grey. Is it poossible to somehow take the rgb output and get a color signal that will work with my tv, or should I bite the bullet and buy an RGB monitor? Any help will be appreciated!!! Vic Msg#:10943 *GENERAL* 12-04-88 22:35:34 From: ANDY PICKETT To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: LASER WRITING Steve: Yep, if I saw "Go ahead, make my day" lasered across someone's garage, I'd sure think twice before knocking on the door!! Anyway, as you can tell from that GS fax, their prices for XY scanners are pretty high. I've thought about designing something myself, but an alternative in my wallet-range eludes me at this point - - probably due to holiday overeating!! I'd be willing to sumbit an article if I had one to submit! BTW, sorry to read your LAST article in BYTE (congrats?) but glad to see you keeping the tradition with INK..... -->Andy<-- Msg#:10967 *GENERAL* 12-05-88 09:14:37 From: STEVE CIARCIA To: ANDY PICKETT (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 10943 (LASER WRITING) I'm getting quite an education on laser projection. According to a few recent articles in Lasers and optronics, a good laser writing system cost about $100,000 and uses 5 W lasers. Maybe we better forget the whole thing! --Steve Msg#:10947 *GENERAL* 12-05-88 04:01:37 From: BOB PIERCE To: JOSEPH FREEMAN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG#10856 (XTAL SALE) Joseph, I would like to purchase 10 (ten) crystals now, and possibly more later. But first I have the same questions as Gary (package style, order arrangements). Bob Msg#:11609 *GENERAL* 12-16-88 20:15:02 From: JOSEPH FREEMAN To: BOB PIERCE (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 10947 (REPLY TO MSG#10856 (XTAL SALE)) The foot print and package style is the same as the standard crystal. It would fit in one of the Imagewise projects. I don't know what the official footprint designator is. The crystals do not have the ground wire soldered to the case. They only have the two wires coming out the bottom. Just send a check to Joe Freeman 117 Trappers Run Cary, NC 27513 I will drop an envelope in the mail when I get the check. Msg#:10975 *GENERAL* 12-05-88 09:50:39 From: RICHARD ANDREWS To: CURT FRANKLIN (Rcvd) Subj: SUBSCRIPTION . I'm curious about my subscription. I have not received a renewal notice, are they about to go out soon? Also I have not received an issue since about Columbus day. Does this mean that a new issue will appear soon (withdrawl symptoms appearing). . I realize that you folks use an outside subscription service but I don't know who else to ask. Thanks for your help. . Msg#:10997 *GENERAL* 12-05-88 15:33:52 From: CURT FRANKLIN To: RICHARD ANDREWS (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 10975 (SUBSCRIPTION) Issue Number 6 should be reaching you any day now. So should a renewal form. Growing a magazine is not a simple thing, and we've had to involved a lot of people and quite a few different companies. So far, things have generally run quite smoothly, but we appreciate the patience that all our readers have shown in letting us get underway. If you haven't gotten magazine and notice in a couple of weeks, let me know. Thanks, Curt Franklin Msg#:11056 *GENERAL* 12-06-88 12:00:42 From: RICHARD ANDREWS To: CURT FRANKLIN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 10997 (SUBSCRIPTION) . Thanks, sorry to pester you. Msg#:10994 *GENERAL* 12-05-88 14:24:05 From: TOM CURDA To: GARY LEAR (Rcvd) Subj: 68HC11 FLOATING POINT Gary, I just finished uploading a set of 68HC11 FP routines. These are the ones from Motorola's FREEWARE BBS. They should be available as soon as Ken has a chance to move them to the appropriate area. Regards, --Tom Msg#:11028 *GENERAL* 12-06-88 04:10:24 From: GARY LEAR To: TOM CURDA (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 10994 (68HC11 FLOATING POINT) Thanks, Tom. Please read my other message for a question on trig functions. Do you have any execution time data? --Gary Msg#:11008 *GENERAL* 12-05-88 18:30:07 From: BILL FREIBERGER To: ALL Subj: NTSC VIDEO I have an immediate need for a video board which will generate CGA video which is NTSC compatible. I have a program to crawl messages across the screen, and it works. Problem is I must be able to wither gen-lock to a broadcast standard video source for integration with video, or at least have a signal that can be frame synced in order to make it synchronous with house video in order to matte (overlay) over video signals. Master machine is a 386 mother board (Hauppauge) with 8 or 16 bit slots. Present video boards seem to make a pseudo NTSC signal that a TV set will accept, but it is not interlaced, thus missing equalizing pulses and most of the vertical sync block. Commercial board is ok, mod of board is ok, any suggestions GREATLY appreciated. Any ideas?? Thanks in advance.. Bill Freiberger ABC-TV New York (Soon to be VTE Television Facilities Los Angeles) Msg#:11047 *GENERAL* 12-06-88 10:38:00 From: STEVE CIARCIA To: BILL FREIBERGER (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 11008 (NTSC VIDEO) Leave a message for Mark Voorhees. His project in CC INK issue #1 was a CGA RGB to NTSC converter (he works at a TV station too). Mark also has kits available. --Steve Msg#:11049 *GENERAL* 12-06-88 11:26:21 From: BILL FREIBERGER To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 11047 (NTSC VIDEO) Thanks, Steve...I am blown away by the speedy reply. I am sure one day this will get real big and impersonal but for now, let us enjoy it. Thanx again.. Msg#:11106 *GENERAL* 12-07-88 10:35:25 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: BILL FREIBERGER (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 11008 (NTSC VIDEO) I came across an item on BIX that describes a new VGA board that will output true NTSC video. Presumably it also supports lesser graphics modes (CGA, EGA, etc.). Cost is $785 and was supposed to be available in late November. Contact US Video, One Stamford Landing, 62 Southfield Ave., Stamford, CT 06902-9950; (203) 964-9000. Msg#:11249 *GENERAL* 12-10-88 21:50:17 From: ANDY PICKETT To: BILL FREIBERGER (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 11049 (NTSC VIDEO) Bill: Let me give you my own personal recommendation to Mark Voorhees' NTSC encoder kit. The $99.00 spent for the kit is WELL worth the money, and it works as advertised. My system uses an EGA card with a Multisync monitor, and I am very pleased with the results I've obtained in my own video productions. Mark was even helpful on this BBS when I had a few questions regarding assembly of the kit itself. Hope this helps you decide - - and Mark DIDN'T pay me to tell you this! -->Andy<-- Msg#:11820 *GENERAL* 12-22-88 01:04:34 From: BILL FREIBERGER To: KEN DAVIDSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 11106 (NTSC VIDEO) Than, Ken... I bought one and am fighting trying to get it to work with my system. Sure am glad we have standar... yup... mmmm hmmm.. Msg#:11821 *GENERAL* 12-22-88 01:06:36 From: BILL FREIBERGER To: ANDY PICKETT (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 11249 (NTSC VIDEO) ANDY! Please tell me more about this forthwith. I still have nothing working and I am out about a grand so far (before I stop the credit card charges, that i. If you like, please call me collect 201-316- 8119 and let me know how to get hold of mark's card... thanks... Bill ger Msg#:11879 *GENERAL* 12-23-88 19:54:28 From: ANDY PICKETT To: BILL FREIBERGER (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 11821 (NTSC VIDEO) Bill: Mark's card was covered in great detail in INK issues #1 and #2. As far as I know, he only has kits available (a bare PC board and a bunch of electronic components) that you will have to solder and align yourself. Although it is not a difficult project to put together, some electronic-kit building experience would definitely be helpful and would make the overall process of assembly and testing/alignment easier. I put mine together in about an hour on a Friday night and aligned it with an ocilloscope in about 2 hours on a Saturday afternoon. Slap it in a metal box from Radio Shack & add a small power supply (I salvaged mine from an old Colecovision video-game) and your all set. If you don't feel like building one yourself or don't know anyone to do it for you, you may wish to write to Mark Voorhees (the author of the article and board designer). He may have assembled & tested versions available for a nominal charge, but I'm not sure. You can either contact Mark on this BBS or write to him at: Mark Voorhees, c/o D.P. Services, POB 27476, Phoenix, Arizona, 85061 (that is the address that comes with the kit's documentation. By the way, I intend on using mine (with my EGA IBM-XT clone) to do video titling and other video effects. Do you happen to know of any good software that will do this in EGA on an IBM-based machine? I'd appreciate knowing what you think! Anyway, good luck! :-) --->Andy<--- Msg#:11014 *GENERAL* 12-05-88 23:15:33 From: STEVE JACOB To: SYSOP (Rcvd) Subj: BACK ISSUES OF INK It is difficult to get through your message base from beginning to end if you are a new user. I suppose someone may have asked this question before and I simply have not seen it. Being a new subscriber to INK I would like to get copies of ALL the back issues. Including the ones your recored telephone message says you are out of. Issue's 1, 2, & 3. Is there anyway to get them at all? Are you planning to put them out in a book like you did the Byte magazine articles perhaps? I guess I missed about all of the Volume 1 issues. That would make a nice paperback book, don't you think? Steve Msg#:11031 *GENERAL* 12-06-88 08:58:31 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: STEVE JACOB (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 11014 (BACK ISSUES OF INK) The telephone message doesn't lie. We are out of issues 1-3 and have just run out of issue #4, so all that's available are #5 and #6. We plan to bind issues 1-12 into one volume at the end of two years and make a limited number of copies available, but there are no plans for putting together any books similar to what Steve has done with his Circuit Cellar articles (Ciarcia's Circuit Cellar Volumes 1-6). Msg#:11168 *GENERAL* 12-08-88 22:31:27 From: GARY WHITE To: KEN DAVIDSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 11031 (BACK ISSUES OF INK) Sorry to hear you are out of back issues, I was just about to drop my order for all back issues in the mail. Will there be a second printing of these, or will you wait until after issue 12 when you compile the book? I am very interested in obtaining a copy of issues 1-4, but hope I don't have to wait 12-18 month and I'm sure there are others out there who share my view. I realize at this point you are just worrying about issue 7,8,and 9 and don't need the additional headache of reprinting back issues, but it would sure be appreciated. I just recieved issue 5 and am very pleased, keep up the great work. Regards, Gary Msg#:11199 *GENERAL* 12-09-88 10:19:00 From: STEVE CIARCIA To: GARY WHITE (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 11168 (BACK ISSUES OF INK) I wouldn't hold my breath for the 2-year bound volume either. With 40,000 circulation (by then), the 240 volumes will barely scratch the surface. As Ken said, we won't reprint whole magazines, but we might reprint all the weather system articles, or all stepper motor stuff, etc. You can expect to see periodic reprint books containing the hot topics at some point. Til then, perhaps you can find someone who will make a photo copy of the articles of interest (while copyright prohibits copying a magazine, we would allow a subscriber to copy an article for another person provided it is not done in volume, it says the article is from CC INK, and the copies are free. Of course, we reserve the right to change this policy at any time we see it being abused.) Finally, while I expect most readers will retain their past copies of CC INK, some may not. You might offer to buy someone's back issues. --STeve Msg#:11686 *GENERAL* 12-18-88 15:51:10 From: GARY WHITE To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 11199 (BACK ISSUES OF INK) Thanks, I'll give those options a try. GWW Msg#:11016 *GENERAL* 12-05-88 23:57:32 From: GREGORY KOSCHARA To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: CCAT BIOS If the Award ROM BIOS source code is not available can I install genuine IBM ROM chips. I would also like to know if the board can be modified to run faster than 10 MHz. The information I have from Micromint says that the BIOS sets one wait state can this be changed. Thanks for your help Msg#:11039 *GENERAL* 12-06-88 10:05:58 From: STEVE CIARCIA To: GREGORY KOSCHARA (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 11016 (CCAT BIOS) Genuine IBM ROMs will not work to my knowledge. There is a difference in the hardware but the BIOS makes it transparent to applications programs. The CCAT hardware requires 1 wait state. It can not be removed and the POACH chips currently used limit the board to 10 MHz. --Steve Msg#:11018 *GENERAL* 12-06-88 01:14:10 From: TIM WALTERS To: ALL Subj: IBM GRAPHICS TABLET HI STEVE, I HATE TO BOTHER YOU WITH THIS, BUT YOU ARE MY LAST RESORT. I RECENTLY PURCHASED (AT AUCTION) AN IBM MODEL 5083-1 GRAPHICS TABLET, NEW WITH STYLUS AND 4-BUTTON CURSOR. AT THE TIME OF THE PURCHASE, I ASSUMED THAT I COULD GET SOME TECHNICAL DOCUMENTATION FOR IT. THIS HAS BEEN A NIGHTMARE. I HAVE SPENT SEVERAL HOURS ON THE PHONE TO IBM OFFICES ALL OVER THE COUNTRY AND SPOKEN WITH DOZENS OF THEIR EMPLOYEES TO NO AVAIL. I HAVE ALSO PURCHASED 2 DIFFERENT MANUALS THAT THE IBM LIBRARY ARCHIVES IN ATLANTA SAID WERE "JUST WHAT I WAS LOOKING FOR" ($75.00 WORTH). THERE HAS BEEN NO INFO IN EITHER MANUAL ABOUT THE TABLET AND NOW IBM WON'T TAKE THEM BACK. YOU GET THE IDEA...... THROUGH ALL MY LOOKING, I HAVE FOUND OUT THE FOLLOWING: THE TABLET HAS BEEN DISCONTINUED AND HUNDREDS WERE SOLD TO "SURPLUS" DEALERS. IT WAS ORIGINALLY DESIGNED TO GO WITH THE IBM 5080 GRAPHICS SYSTEM. (IT ATTACHED TO THE MODEL 5081 GRAPHICS DISPLAY). IT HAS AN 8250, 1488 AND 1489 IN IT SO IT IS AN RS232 DEVICE. IT HAS A 9-PIN "D" CONNECTOR ON THE CABLE. POWER MUST BE APPLIED THRU THIS CONNECTOR. I WANT TO HOOK THIS UP TO MY CLUB AT'S SERIAL PORT AND USE IT FOR MY LASER LIGHT SHOW BUSINESS. IF I CAN GET THIS RUNNING, IT WILL SAVE ME MANY HUNDREDS OF DOLLARS. I FIGURE IF ANYONE CAN HELP ME FIND SOME DOCS, YOU CAN. IF YOU DO FIND SOMETHING, PLEASE LEAVE ME EMAIL OR CALL ME (DAY) AT 404-425-2724 OR (NITE) 404-928-7326. I WOULD BE ETERNALLY GRATEFUL IF YOU CAN HELP. THANKS VERY MUCH FOR YOUR TIME. TIM WALTERS Msg#:11040 *GENERAL* 12-06-88 10:08:17 From: STEVE CIARCIA To: TIM WALTERS (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 11018 (IBM GRAPHICS TABLET) Sorry, I don't have a clue but perhaps some other BBSer can help. --Steve Msg#:11077 *GENERAL* 12-06-88 23:53:47 From: TIM WALTERS To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 11040 (IBM GRAPHICS TABLET) HI STEVE, THANKS FOR THE REPLY AND YOUR TIME! TIM Msg#:11050 *GENERAL* 12-06-88 11:26:26 From: BILL JAMIESON To: JASON FARQUE' (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 8002 (8031 SCHEMATIC ERROR) Thanks for your reply. Been a long time since I been on. I hope I didn't seem rude to not acknowledge earlier. Thanks again,Bill Msg#:11051 *GENERAL* 12-06-88 11:28:46 From: BILL JAMIESON To: ED NISLEY (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 8091 (PROBLEMS WITH 8031 EXPERIMENT) Thanks for the Info. Bill Msg#:11054 *GENERAL* 12-06-88 11:50:19 From: BILL FREIBERGER To: KEN DAVIDSON (Rcvd) Subj: BACK ISSUES Ken, when will the compilation of the first six issues be available? Put me on the order list for it. I was reading the mail just now, planning on calling this afternoon to order from issue 1, and it seems my procrastinator has been working up to its usual efficiency. Got my first subscription issue of CCINK yesterday, and it is great! Msg#:11095 *GENERAL* 12-07-88 08:38:02 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: BILL FREIBERGER (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 11054 (BACK ISSUES) We don't plan a compilation of the first six issues. The only plan now is for the first twelve issues after two years of publishing. Sorry. Msg#:11061 *GENERAL* 12-06-88 15:45:46 From: NEIL CHERRY To: ALL Subj: SCSI Could someone suggest a good book on SCSI, and suggest a good SCSI controller for a hard drive. The board I purchase for my BBS has a SCSI interface chip (Logic Devices Inc.#L5380). So it looks like my old WD1001 controller will not work with the SCSI chip. It looks like the first Hdrive interface will be a ttl chip interface to the WD1001. But later I would like to get the SCSI interface up and running. And considering that I've got to write a new device driver for the SCSI I would like to get started now. Thanks. . NJC Msg#:11062 *GENERAL* 12-06-88 17:42:09 From: NICK BRENCKLE To: ALL Subj: TRACKBALL I have a question and seemed like the right place to put it. I have an Amiga 500 and just acquired a trackball for an atari 5200. The problem is that the 5200 had a larger D plug than the old 2600 (I think it was 17 rather then the 2600's 9) Well, I want to replace this with a 9 pin plus so as to use it on the Amiga. There are only 5 wires to the trackball unit, the remainder being to the keypads that I dont need. The problem is I cant figure out what to send these inputs to and where. I need to know what pins off the trackabll unit go to what pins on the joystick/mouse port for the Amiga. Anyone have any ideas? Msg#:11064 *GENERAL* 12-06-88 20:49:33 From: ROBERT MCILVAINE To: GARREN DAVIS (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 8564 (BSR MODULES) Garren, Sorry it has taken me so long to reply. It's been a while since I checked in, new job etc. took some time to get in the swing. I'd be glad to show you how its done. So far I only control the speakers and the volume. I could accomplish that with no mods to the stereo. I have designed but, as yet, have not implemented the control of the source (ie. tuner, turntable, CD, tape deck, VCR) and the frequency of the tuner. Both tape deck and CD have remote control jacks so they're relatively easy. The tuner will require surgury to get to the inside. Any how, my address is 36 Parker Rd., Brookline, NH 03033 Msg#:12544 *GENERAL* 01-08-89 13:48:03 From: SEAN M. BEATRICE To: EDDIE WHITE (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 44 (BSR MODULES) Could someone suggest a good book that can assit me with writing microcode fo eprom programs. This is my first attempt at trying to program proms and I am having some difficulty in getting infor- mation on the subject and what is needed to get the job done. I can forsee some of the hardware that I would need, the eprom programmer but that is the root of my problem. I don't know what type of support software I would need or what is the assembler lang. to use for the prom itself. Finally, information about program design would be of great help. Thankx Sean Msg#:11079 *GENERAL* 12-07-88 00:27:36 From: TIM WALTERS To: ANDY PICKETT (Rcvd) Subj: LASER WRITING HI ANDY, I've just read all the messages you and Bob Paddock have left about laser scanning. I have my own laser scanning setup that I built about 4 years ago. I have been updating the hardware and software since day one. If you have any questions, ideas or shoot-the-bull about lasers and scanning, I'd like to talk with you about it. Oh - I also constructed a 100-watt CO2 laser and X-Y table hooked to my AT clone for cutting plastics, rubber, cardboard or just about anything that's non-metallic. The main thing is Plexiglas letters for sign companies... (The CO2 was a piece of cake to build). Give me a message.... Tim Msg#:11246 *GENERAL* 12-10-88 21:27:30 From: ANDY PICKETT To: TIM WALTERS (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 11079 (LASER WRITING) Tim: Sounds like you should submit what you've done to Steve for an article! I'd really like to know more of what you've built! How much expense have you gone to, and can your setup be used for the laser- writing type effects at concerts, etc.? -->Andy<-- Msg#:11080 *GENERAL* 12-07-88 00:30:26 From: TIM WALTERS To: BOB PADDOCK (Rcvd) Subj: LASER WRITING Hi Bob, Take a look at message # 11079. Tim Msg#:11130 *GENERAL* 12-07-88 17:51:43 From: BARRY MOSS To: ALL Subj: RS485 PORT FOR IBM-PC Does anyone know of an RS485 interface board for the PC which will allow half duplex synchronous communications over a single twisted pair? I am trying to hook up a PC to proprietary point-of-sale terminal LAN which uses 75176 RS485 transcievers and a 8530 SCC to implement the LAN. Any assitance will be greatly appreciated. Msg#:11156 *GENERAL* 12-08-88 13:07:31 From: NEIL CHERRY To: BARRY MOSS (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 11130 (RS485 PORT FOR IBM-PC) This sounds like the Starlan network that AT&T has ( I support the product at AT&T). You might try one of the various people who make theses boards. I doubt that their software will work for what you want. Msg#:11137 *GENERAL* 12-07-88 19:39:33 From: EDWARD WOOD To: KEN DAVIDSON (Rcvd) Subj: MESSAGE READ PROBLEMS Every time I log on and scan the new messages I always get messages from November 28 to the present. Is the BBS not updating my file to indicate what my last read message was? It takes quite a bit of time to go through messages that I have already read. Msg#:11145 *GENERAL* 12-08-88 08:33:51 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: EDWARD WOOD (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 11137 (MESSAGE READ PROBLEMS) We haven't had any other problems or reports of problems, so I don't know what might be happening. If you just hang up the phone without properly logging off, pointers may not get properly updated. There's nothing saying you must read from November 28, even if the system says that's the last time you were on. Just read orward, starting at a later message. Let me know if it continues over your next few calls. Msg#:11148 *GENERAL* 12-08-88 09:23:33 From: RICHARD ANDREWS To: ALL Subj: ZEOS PC'S . I have seen ads for PC's made by (or sold by) a company named Zeos, located in St. Paul MN. I was wondering if anybody here has had any experience with their products. Thanks. . Msg#:11161 *GENERAL* 12-08-88 16:34:54 From: NEIL CHERRY To: ALL Subj: MONITOR DISTANCE What is the maximum distance that a color monitor can be away from a pc? NJC Msg#:11167 *GENERAL* 12-08-88 20:12:41 From: TIM WALTERS To: NEIL CHERRY (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 11161 (MONITOR DISTANCE) Hi Neil, I have driven 300' cables with the output from a standard CGA card. Tim Msg#:11194 *GENERAL* 12-09-88 09:57:25 From: STEVE CIARCIA To: NEIL CHERRY (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 11161 (MONITOR DISTANCE) I have about 150' of cable on the composite video output of the HCS in my house. Works fine. --Steve Msg#:11343 *GENERAL* 12-12-88 10:04:01 From: NEIL CHERRY To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 11194 (MONITOR DISTANCE) Does dat mean I can go twee feets? ;) NJC Msg#:11385 *GENERAL* 12-12-88 20:01:41 From: ED NISLEY To: NEIL CHERRY (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 11161 (MONITOR DISTANCE) You've got to be a little careful which connector you're using. The RGB outputs are just ordinary TTL gates, which were never designed to handle the capacitance of a few hundred feet of cable. You'll also chew up radio and TV reception in the neighborhood with an antenna like that... There are extenders advertised in the back pages of PC Magazine that can drive a zillion feet of cable with no trouble. They'll also extend the keyboard, which you probably don't need, but which may come in handy. Msg#:11509 *GENERAL* 12-15-88 01:17:52 From: ROBERT EUGSTER To: NEIL CHERRY (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 11343 (MONITOR DISTANCE) Neil, I've run across Monitor/Keyboard extensions in a catalog called Personal Computing Tools their address is 17419 Farley Rd. Los Gatos, CA 95030 1-408-395-6600 their devices support CGA and EGA out to 150 ft further if you can live with monochrome. They have two models, one supports a single keyboard/monitor and the second supports multiple keyboard/monitors on a PC. Their prices range from 25 ft @ $150 to 150 ft @ $245 for the single. And 25 ft @ $219 to 150 ft @ $349 for the multiple monitor setup. The prices seem a bit steep but... If you need anymore info let me know. Robert Msg#:11531 *GENERAL* 12-15-88 14:23:04 From: NEIL CHERRY To: ROBERT EUGSTER (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 11509 (MONITOR DISTANCE) Hey guys really I only want to go 3 feet. :<> But thanks anyway guys. NJC_:) Msg#:11786 *GENERAL* 12-21-88 01:30:09 From: ROBERT EUGSTER To: NEIL CHERRY (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 11531 (MONITOR DISTANCE) I didn't know it was only three feet, but I'm glad I could help.. Msg#:11171 *GENERAL* 12-08-88 23:00:54 From: TOM ARNOLD To: ALL Subj: HAIL AND FAREWELL I have to return the high speed modem tomorrow, so I won't be back here until I can again exceed 300 BPS, hopefully after XMAS. I'll miss all the hints and camaraderie I've found here, but I SHALL RETURN. Msg#:11172 *GENERAL* 12-08-88 23:03:07 From: TOM ARNOLD To: JASON FARQUE' (Rcvd) Subj: MICROCONTROLLER BBS Hopefully I'll have another decent modem by the time you get your board up, so when you do, drop me a line at 1919 W. Melrose, Chicago IL 60657. Msg#:11213 *GENERAL* 12-09-88 18:07:45 From: JASON FARQUE' To: TOM ARNOLD Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 11172 (MICROCONTROLLER BBS) Tom, Will do. Good luck with your projects. How're things with the ProComm patch? Did any of that pan out for you? Jason.. Msg#:11176 *GENERAL* 12-09-88 01:13:34 From: RICHMOND ARMSTRONG To: ALL USERS Subj: COMPONENT SUPPLIERS This is the first time on this BB so I apologize if someone has already answered this question. I couldn't envision reading through the previous 4126 messages. Is there anyone who can supply ICs, sockets, and other discrete components in small quantities for experimenters? Jameco doesn't list a very wide variety of some types of RAM and LCD displays, along with some of the more specialized chips. Any suggestions for places to look is greatly appreciated. Thanks. Msg#:11202 *GENERAL* 12-09-88 11:40:46 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: RICHMOND ARMSTRONG (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 11176 (COMPONENT SUPPLIERS) This is just a partial list of suppliers of both electronics components and surplus parts and equipment. Most have shipping charges which depend on the size of the order and some have minimum order amounts, but all sell parts in single quantities. If anyone has a favorite supplier not on this list, let me know and I'll add it. ICs, Discretes, Sockets, Switches, etc. --------------------------------------- Digi-Key Corporation 701 Brooks Ave. South P.O. Box 677 Thief River Falls, MN 56701-0677 (800) 344-4539 (218) 681-6674 Easylink: 62827914 Telex II: 9103508982 "DIGI-KEY CORP" Fax: (218) 681-3380 Jameco Electronics 1355 Shoreway Rd. Belmont, CA 94002 (415) 592-8097 Telex: 176043 Fax: (415) 592-2503 JDR Microdevices 110 Knowles Dr. Los Gatos, CA 95030 (800) 538-5000 (408) 866-6200 Telex: 171-110 Fax: (408) 378-8927 Mouser Electronics 2401 Hwy. 287 North Mansfield, TX 76063 (800) 346-6873 (800) 992-9943 (to order a catalog) (201) 328-3322 Fax: (817) 483-0931 The following list of surplus suppliers comes from the pile of catalogs we had on hand. Quality and availability of parts from surplus houses can vary con- siderably, and we make no claims for or endorsements of any of the suppliers listed here. We welcome comments, both good and bad, from any users who may have experience with any of these companies. Surplus Parts and Equipment --------------------------- Marlin P. Jones & Assoc. John J. Meshna, Inc. P.O. Box 12685 19 Allerton St. Lake Park, FL 33403-0685 Lynn, MA 01904 (407) 848-8236 (800) 637-4627 Fax: (407) 844-8764 (617) 595-2275 H&R Corporation Sintec Company 401 E. Erie Ave. 28 8th St., Box 410 Philadelphia, PA 19134-1187 Frenchtown, NJ 08825 (215) 426-1708 (800) 526-5960 Fax: (215) 425-8870 (201) 996-4093 Jerryco, Inc. R&D Electronics 601 Linden Place 1202H Pine Island Rd. Evanston, IL 60202 Cape Coral, FL 33909 (312) 475-8440 (216) 621-1052 Edlie Electronics 2700 Hempstead Tpke. Levittown, NY 11756-1443 (800) 645-4722 (516) 735-3330 Msg#:11181 *GENERAL* 12-09-88 07:27:34 From: GARY LEAR To: ROBERT WELKER Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 3543 (CRYSTALS) In fact, Ellison wrote the only original "Star Trek" episode to win an award (Hugo?). "City on the Edge of Forever". Back to old familiar earth yet again! He apparently refused (RUMOR) to write any others because of the changes that were made (I think he killed off a major character), his original story was also awarded at a later date. --Gary Msg#:11210 *GENERAL* 12-09-88 16:50:37 From: MARK BALCH To: ALL Subj: 6850 ACIA'S UPGRADES? I am starting to design 60x0 projects and I want to incorporate RS-232 communications in them. My problem is finding a good UART that can be used with Motorola's family of 6800 processors. Motorola makes the 6850 ACIA, but it requires an external baud rate generator. I want something that will internally clock itself. First, does anyone know if Motorola has come out with an upgraded 6850 ( I think I saw something about a 6851 chip) that generates its own bit clock? And if not, can I use Intel's 8251 UART with the Motorola family? I don't want to be bogged down with family conversion chips. Thanks alot, Mark Msg#:11217 *GENERAL* 12-09-88 20:31:23 From: MARK LAMPKIN To: MARK BALCH (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 11210 (6850 ACIA'S UPGRADES?) Mark...Contact Motorola or one of their rep's for the latest data books...I have in a number of favorites.Among them are the MC68652/MC2652,MC68681 and the MC68661/MC2661.These are directly compatible with the 68000 family of processors and as I recollect,have on-board data rate generation and selection.The 6850 is an old reliable that can be kluged into about any system....Don't let the "Enable" line throw you....It's just a clock line...As far as using an off-board bit generator,I use the 74HCT4060 with a 4.915mhz crystal..The 74HCT has an on-board oscillator and a series of flip-flops to divive the signal down to standard clock rates for chips like the 6850 or 8251A...The by-product of this combination is the 4.915mhz clock to drive most CPU's....Mark Msg#:11228 *GENERAL* 12-10-88 04:55:30 From: GARY LEAR To: MARK BALCH (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 11210 (6850 ACIA'S UPGRADES?) What do you want to use for a clock source to drive the ACIA? Most external UARTs allow for seperate receive and transmit clocks (in one version or another, combined clocks are also common). Do you want the ACIA to use it's own crystal or some other reference? Most of the devices that I am familiar with (except the old stand alone UARTs that are hardwired) allow you to select dividers internally, but the master clock is external for greater system design flexibility. If you are upgrading to a newer design why not use the Motorola microcontroller family? The 68HC11 is software compatible with the 6800, 6801, and the 6802 and it contains an onboard UART as well as a serial peripheral bus. Please feel free to ask any questions on this part. --Gary Msg#:11236 *GENERAL* 12-10-88 13:05:33 From: BOB PADDOCK To: MARK BALCH (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 11210 (6850 ACIA'S UPGRADES?) Check out Signetics 2650 and/or 2651. Msg#:11359 *GENERAL* 12-12-88 13:55:41 From: NEIL CHERRY To: MARK BALCH (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 11210 (6850 ACIA'S UPGRADES?) You might want to try the rockwell 6551 simular to the 6850 in many ways and as easy to kludge. NJC Msg#:11364 *GENERAL* 12-12-88 14:27:03 From: GARY PACK To: MARK BALCH (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 11210 (6850 ACIA'S UPGRADES?) You might also try the Rockwell 6551. I've used it with only an external crystal or a buffered E. With a 1.8432 Mhz input you can generate (by setting values in registers) 300,600,1200,2400,4800,9600,19200 or I think 128K. I don't have the book in front of me. One thing to note with this part. If you use Rockwells part and a chrystal you may need to put an R/C on the reset line for use during power up. For trouble free operation however don't use Rockwell's device. Use AMI or some other 2'nd source. Good Luck and if you have any questions about this part leave me a message. Gary Msg#:11375 *GENERAL* 12-12-88 18:13:19 From: JIM NELSON To: MARK BALCH (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 11210 (6850 ACIA'S UPGRADES?) You can quite easily use the Rockwell 6551 ACIA with 6800 family micros; the 6551 requires only a 1.8342 MHz crystal; by writing to an internal register you can set it to run at standard rates through 19,200 bps. The 6800 and 6500 families are similar, so interfacing only requires that you connect the 6800 output E clock to the 6551 phi2 clock input, and the R/W signals directly. Well, I can see that some people have already replied, and we all seem to agree. Good luck. Msg#:11441 *GENERAL* 12-13-88 16:15:07 From: MARK BALCH To: MARK LAMPKIN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 11217 (6850 ACIA'S UPGRADES?) Thank you for the information. I was originally going to use the 14411 bit rate generator (Motorola) but it is a 24pin device and two larger chips for a serial port didn't agree with me. I'll get info about those other chips, but are they comnpatible with the 6800 family as well? And do you know if the 8251A can be used with the 6800 family? Thanks again, Mark Msg#:11442 *GENERAL* 12-13-88 16:22:23 From: MARK BALCH To: GARY LEAR (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 11228 (6850 ACIA'S UPGRADES?) Thanks alot. The 68HC11 is a microcontroller right? I'm using microprocessors. I am starting with the 6808 as a learning experience and then I plan to jump to a 2MHz 6809. From there I want to go to Motorola's 16 Bit familt (68000...). I would like to use the system clock as the UART input (1MHz, 2M...) Is this easily done? The 8251A UART does/doesn't need a separate crystal or specific system clock? Can it be used with say 10MHz (the speed of my AT)? And also, I was under the impression that if you use separate baud and system clocks that the UART and CPU will be out of sync. Is this wrong? Thanks, Mark Msg#:11443 *GENERAL* 12-13-88 16:23:02 From: MARK BALCH To: BOB PADDOCK (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 11236 (6850 ACIA'S UPGRADES?) Thanks for the referral. These are 6800 compatible? Bye, Mark Msg#:11444 *GENERAL* 12-13-88 16:25:06 From: MARK BALCH To: NEIL CHERRY (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 11359 (6850 ACIA'S UPGRADES?) Well I'm not really looking for a kludge. I need something that will generate its own bit clock (from a separate crystal if need be) and still be simple enough for a beginner in a 6808 project. From what I have seen UART/ACIAs are not complicated (as far as interfacing to a CPU, goes). Do you know if the 8251A can be used with the 6808 (6800)? Thanks, Mark Msg#:11445 *GENERAL* 12-13-88 16:27:45 From: MARK BALCH To: GARY PACK (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 11364 (6850 ACIA'S UPGRADES?) Oh, the 6551 has a built-in bit rate generator? Thank you for the advice. AMD makes a copy of it? Suposing that I use this UART, could I send it a 1MHz clock to divide, or do I need a frequency that is a multiple of the baud rate? Thank you, Mark Msg#:11446 *GENERAL* 12-13-88 16:30:05 From: MARK BALCH To: JIM NELSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 11375 (6850 ACIA'S UPGRADES?) Whew, you bet that alot of people replied! It is great to know that a beginner can come to this BBS and get fast, reliable help. Thanks to all of you! With all of the 6551's recommendations, I'll be sure to get a copy of its data sheet and investigate. Mabye, I'll be able to have a serial port in my first micro project after all! Thanks, Mark Msg#:11466 *GENERAL* 12-14-88 07:05:21 From: GARY LEAR To: MARK BALCH (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 11442 (6850 ACIA'S UPGRADES?) Yes, the 68HC11 is a microcontroller, but don't let that fool you. The CPU core of the HC11 is none other than the 6801 microprocessor. What primarily determines the difference is the level of onboard integration (A/D's, timers, UART's, EEPROM, etc) that the chip contains. Some of the newer controllers have extensions (or were designed that way) to their instruction sets to facilitate control type functions. Principally among these are Boolean bit level operations and special instructions for the A/D's, timers, etc. The 6801 can run 6800 code directly. I am not familiar with the 6808, nor can I find it in my new Motorola micro book. I know of the 68008, but since you indicated that you were going to use a 8 bit micro first I assumed that this is not the one you mean. Motorola debated using the 6809 core in the HC11, I now think they wished they had since the '09 is much more powerful than the '01. Intel's data book specifically states that "No external inputs or outputs are referenced to CLK but the frequency of CLK must be greater than 30 times the Receiver or Transmit data bit rates." UART stands for Universal Asychronous Receiver Transmitter, the system clock is often used for internal device timing (8251A) and frequently feeds the baud rate generator, but the external communications are necessarily almost always out of sync. The question of whether or not you can use a specific frequency depends on the baud rate generator (more specifically, the divider chains) and the desired error tolerance of your communication frequencies. If you control the UARTS on both ends, it doesn't matter what frequency you use as long as it is within the UART's specs and it is the same freq at both ends. As a final note, most UART's use a standard control interface to the processor. As long as you conform to the specified RD/WR timing you shouldn't have any problems. Please let me know if you have more questions. --Gary Msg#:11471 *GENERAL* 12-14-88 09:27:35 From: NEIL CHERRY To: MARK BALCH (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 11444 (6850 ACIA'S UPGRADES?) Yes they can be used and what you'll need to do is set up the correct re wr and the other necessary lines. The 6551 will generate its own baud by setting up the correct registers. I believe you'll find that the 6551 will work as a better chip to use but you have to determine the correct chip for your needs. NJC Msg#:11478 *GENERAL* 12-14-88 12:03:59 From: BOB PADDOCK To: MARK BALCH (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 11443 (6850 ACIA'S UPGRADES?) I'am not sure, I beleive they are . Msg#:11484 *GENERAL* 12-14-88 14:51:08 From: GARY PACK To: MARK BALCH (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 11445 (6850 ACIA'S UPGRADES?) Mark, You have to provide a clock that is a frequency of baud rate. The 1.8423Mhz I quoted can come from a chrystal tied directly to the XTAL inputs on the chip or if you use a chrystal 4* this frequency on your 68B09 you just supply one of the inputs with E or Q. Note the B designation. This is a 2Mhz (can use up to an 8Mhz chrystal)part. Gary Msg#:11548 *GENERAL* 12-16-88 00:12:59 From: MARK LAMPKIN To: MARK BALCH (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 11441 (6850 ACIA'S UPGRADES?) The 8251a can be used with the 6800 family of processors,however,the 8251 is not as easily interfaced as the 6850...It also has some strange qwirks....like having to wait 6+ clock cycles after a reset for the chip to be REALLY reset...All in all,the easier of the two is the 6850..Mark Msg#:11549 *GENERAL* 12-16-88 00:16:15 From: MARK LAMPKIN To: MARK BALCH (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 11442 (6850 ACIA'S UPGRADES?) he clock input to the 8251 is actually a system clock for the internal system...You still need a clock input at a standard divisible baud rate to drive the USART Tx and Rx clock input...Mark...Again Msg#:11612 *GENERAL* 12-16-88 21:02:58 From: MARK BALCH To: GARY LEAR (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 11466 (6850 ACIA'S UPGRADES?) The 6808 is a processor that motorola may drop (I think). I can not find it mentioned either anymore. They only talk about the 6802 and 6809. The 6808 is the 6802 MPU without the onboard RAM (128 Bytes). I will start using the 6809 soon. The 68008 is a good chip also. It is internally the same as the 68000, but with an 8 bit data bus and only a 1 or 4 Meg address space (1Meg for the DIP and 4Megs for the PLCC). Thanks for the information about the 8251A. I will probably use the 6551 after hearing so much about it from the people here. I just have to get specs which shouldn't be much hassel. Thanks, Mark Msg#:11613 *GENERAL* 12-16-88 21:05:49 From: MARK BALCH To: NEIL CHERRY (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 11471 (6850 ACIA'S UPGRADES?) Well yes, I will make the decision but from what I have heard, the 6551 works very nicely. I will get specs for it and do a comparison with the 6850. The 6850's limitation is that you cannot set any frequency divider inside the chip. This means that you have to have external logic to perform a software change of baud rates. Thanks, Mark Msg#:11614 *GENERAL* 12-16-88 21:08:45 From: MARK BALCH To: GARY PACK (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 11484 (6850 ACIA'S UPGRADES?) Yes, the 6802,08,09 provide that divide by 4 function on the chip. When I use the 68B09 soon, I will get a 7.something MHz xtal so that the E signal will be easily used with the 6551's internal dividers. Thanks, Mark Msg#:11615 *GENERAL* 12-16-88 21:10:42 From: MARK BALCH To: MARK LAMPKIN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 11548 (6850 ACIA'S UPGRADES?) I decided not to go with the 8251A because of interface problems with the 6800 family. The 6850 is good but it does not provide internal dividers for the baud rate, so external logic os required for a software baud rate change. The 6551 has this divider function and so I will probably go with that chip. Bye, Mark Msg#:11616 *GENERAL* 12-16-88 21:12:13 From: MARK BALCH To: MARK LAMPKIN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 11549 (6850 ACIA'S UPGRADES?) Hmm...That's what I figured. It is the reason for a PC running at 4.77 MHz (right?). Do you happen to know what the real frequency a 10MHz and 12MHz computer run at? It has to be some decimal number for the serial port(s). Thanks, Mark Msg#:11622 *GENERAL* 12-16-88 22:33:28 From: MARK LAMPKIN To: MARK BALCH (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 11616 (6850 ACIA'S UPGRADES?) The 10 or 12mhz computer is probably running at 10 or 12mhz...There are a number of ways to generate a standard baud rate from any frequency...One way is to use a programmable timer and to generate an interrupt at a standard rate...You can usually get within 1% or so of a given rate....On the subject of baud rate generation.....You can use the CD4040/4060/4020 as a divisor and simply gate the clock into a UART throughan open collector NAND gate,simply using readily available,"CHEAP" chips...Mark Msg#:11691 *GENERAL* 12-18-88 16:29:30 From: BOB PADDOCK To: MARK BALCH (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 11612 (6850 ACIA'S UPGRADES?) I think you'll find the 68008 is in the same catagory as the 6808, no longer being made. Check with your local Motrola Rep to find out. Msg#:11807 *GENERAL* 12-21-88 17:13:15 From: MARK BALCH To: MARK LAMPKIN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 11622 (6850 ACIA'S UPGRADES?) Thanks. I thought it was something like that. What is the maximum amount of deviation for baud rate clocks? In INK there was a 2MHz (or 1MHz) project that divided the system clock 13 times to get within a "safe" baud frequency. Bye, Mark Msg#:11808 *GENERAL* 12-21-88 17:16:20 From: MARK BALCH To: BOB PADDOCK (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 11691 (6850 ACIA'S UPGRADES?) I'm not sure about the 68008. I just got Motorola's latest Master Selection Guide along with info on the 68000,68008 and 68010. The 6808 is no longer mentioned at all in Motorola's literature, but the 68008 still is listed with the 16/32-bit MPUs and they even have a data sheet on it that is copyright 1988. I don't think that the 68008 was discontinued, only the 6808. The 68008 still has alot of good uses. It is like the 8088 of the 68000 family. An 8-bit data bus with a relatively high clock (12MHz) and 1 or 4 Megabytes or Address space ain't so bad for alot of applications. Mark Msg#:11854 *GENERAL* 12-22-88 21:14:42 From: MARK LAMPKIN To: MARK BALCH (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 11807 (6850 ACIA'S UPGRADES?) I believe that RS232 has a specification of 5 or 6%,but don't quote that from me....Mark Msg#:11919 *GENERAL* 12-26-88 16:02:28 From: MARK BALCH To: MARK LAMPKIN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 11854 (6850 ACIA'S UPGRADES?) Thanks. So if I wanted to use a 1MHz clock and still have RS-232, I could just divide by n and keep the frequency within about 4%? Bye, Mark Msg#:12359 *GENERAL* 01-04-89 23:28:16 From: GARY LEAR To: MARK BALCH (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 11612 (6850 ACIA'S UPGRADES?) Glad to be of service. --Gary Msg#:11218 *GENERAL* 12-09-88 21:04:57 From: STEVEN HARGUS To: 80X86 GURUS Subj: DYNAMIC RAM Is it possible to take dynamic RAMs and hook it up to the front of an 8086 processor, then use a timer interrupt for refresh? Or do I have to find a suitable controller? I am experimenting with different computer designs and as such I am trying to keep the cost and part count to a bare minimum. I know this is the way a PC does it, but I am looking for some of the hardware details of how this is accomplished. Also, I would very much like to do this without resorting to the use of a delay line, as they can be hard to come by. Msg#:11230 *GENERAL* 12-10-88 05:07:39 From: GARY LEAR To: STEVEN HARGUS (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 11218 (DYNAMIC RAM) Doing it without a delay line can be tough! This is often the simpliest way to go. The PC uses the DMA (direct memory access) controller to refresh memory. The highest priority interrupt in the system timer triggers the DMA for a refresh cycle (If you really want to pull your hair out, try developing interrupt driven software that inadvertently wipes the vector for this function. A bug that cries out for hardware development tools, because the computer doesn't run long enough to tell you anything! And yes, that is the voice of experience talking. :-) ). Try to obtain the early tech manual for the PC (the new ones aren't nearly as helpful) and you will find a schematic and software listing for this function. Good luck! --Gary Msg#:11248 *GENERAL* 12-10-88 21:32:04 From: STEVEN HARGUS To: GARY LEAR (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 11230 (DYNAMIC RAM) What kind of rates are necessary for refresh? I am considering the possibility of letting a coprocessor handle the task. By the way, I can sympathize with the interrupt vector wipeout problem. In cases like that, intuition is your best weapon. Thank you! Msg#:11256 *GENERAL* 12-11-88 05:23:58 From: GARY LEAR To: STEVEN HARGUS (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 11248 (DYNAMIC RAM) Intuition and careful coding. The computer *always* does what we tell it to do (barring hardware failures) and you can guess who made the mistake that time! I wish I had had a hardware debugging tool (maybe something like Periscope) for that one. Current refresh times are in the 2 - 4 mS range, depending on the specific memories and actual size of the array. It is not necessary to refresh the entire memory; i.e. refresh all memory locations. In most 64K devices for example, only 256 refresh cycles are needed (the memory takes care of the other locations internally). This may be a combination of RAS and CAS refresh or some memories allow static CAS (or is it static RAS?), or even hidden refresh. Using dynamic memories in a controller or conventional micro is a problem and they would not be employed for this purpose if they were not much denser and cheaper than their static counterparts. This sounds like a good topic for an article if anyone out there has enough experience. Good luck with your proj ect! --Gary Msg#:11266 *GENERAL* 12-11-88 11:38:52 From: STEVEN HARGUS To: GARY LEAR (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 11256 (DYNAMIC RAM) Couldn't you just halt the processor, perform the refresh, then release the processor? I read somewhere that you only have to run through the row lines (RAS strobes), and there were only 128 of them. But then how can you get the 80x86 bus, demultiplex out the address, then recombine into a two-phase address bus and generate the RAS and CAS strobes? This must be where the delay line comes in.... Maybe it would be easier to use static. Msg#:11319 *GENERAL* 12-12-88 06:32:25 From: GARY LEAR To: STEVEN HARGUS (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 11266 (DYNAMIC RAM) Typically it is not necessary, or generally wise, to halt the processor for refresh. A common technique is to refresh the memory during an opcode decoding cycle. The number of RAS and CAS lines is a function of the memory size. As far as I know, dynamic memories are always arranged in a square configuration (at least from an electrical perspective). Thus the RAS and CAS lines are equal in number and that number is the square root of the memory size; i.e. in a 64K chip this means 256 RAS and CAS lines each. The 128 lines that you mention correspond to an almost obsolete 16K device (isn't it awful, considering what people would do for 4K chips 10 years ago!), I was not under the impression that you intended to use these. As far as I am concerned, I use statics whenever possible. This makes some of my projects considerably more expensive than necessary. The real problem is size, I will have to use dynamics in a pet project of mine , thus the interest in an article on the subject. One final comment, the 2 - 4 mS interval that I mentioned is the time allowed to refresh the entire array, or to look at it another way, the maximum time allowed before a particular cell must be refreshed. Good luck! --Gary P.S. If you can access *all* of the memory sites (or at least their rows) that you need in the time allowed, it is not necessary to explicitly refresh them (some video applications, for example). Msg#:11337 *GENERAL* 12-12-88 09:29:00 From: STEVEN HARGUS To: GARY LEAR (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 11319 (DYNAMIC RAM) Yes, I was looking at an '82 MOSTEK book for 16k dynamic RAMs. (p.s. did you know there were two varieties of 16k RAMs, one with +-12 and +5 volt supplies, and one with a single 5v supply used as an upgrade path to 64k RAMs. We repair old H.P. computers and I was pulling my hair out trying to figure out why the replacement RAMs wouldn't work until I found this out.) Thanks for your help with my project! Msg#:11406 *GENERAL* 12-13-88 04:30:24 From: GARY LEAR To: STEVEN HARGUS (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 11337 (DYNAMIC RAM) As I recall the older parts needed a substrate bias voltage, thus the 12 Volts. I believe newer parts still need the bias, but it is generated internally. I hope my comments (or babbling) was of some assistance. Please let me know if I can be of any further help. --Regards, Gary. Msg#:11219 *GENERAL* 12-09-88 21:08:21 From: DALE REID To: ALL Subj: RADIO SHACK ELECTRONIC COMPASS I just received my Radio Shack catalog for Christmas, and lo and behold there are a few interesting things. The most interesting, though is a $50 electronic compass listed. As anyone seen one of these? Does it use the same technology that has been discussed elsewhere on the system? Are they very accurate? Do the work? Dale Msg#:11221 *GENERAL* 12-09-88 23:07:22 From: STEVE SCHMIDT To: ALL Subj: ST4096 HD RELIABILITY I'm about to bite the bullet and get myself a larger hard disk for my AT clone(I have a 20 Meg Seagate ST4026 now). I'm strongly leaning toward the Seagate 80 Meg ST4096, mainly because it's available at a reasonable price(around $600-650 by mail), and has around the same published access time as my 20 Meg(28 ms.). However, I don't know anything about this model's reliability or its "real" access time. Has anybody out there used this drive on an AT-type machine? If so, what kinds of problems have you had? How reliable and fast is it? Incidentally, how do you install a large drive of this type on an AT machine? The BIOS on my clone has all the routines needed for setup and installation, but the table of drive types doesn't include an entry for an 80 Meg drive. What would I have to do to allow the machine to see such a drive when I boot? I'd appreciate any info you can give me. Msg#:11231 *GENERAL* 12-10-88 05:14:08 From: GARY LEAR To: STEVE SCHMIDT (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 11221 (ST4096 HD RELIABILITY) Unless the situation has changeed recently, you can only tell the system to recognize 30 Megs at a time. It is necessary to partition your drive into "logical" sections of 30 Megs each. I have only worked on this with a 60 Meg drive, I do not know if more than two "logical" drives will be allowed. Be careful that you do not end up with more disk than your machine can handle. You might check with Ed Nisley or someone else with more experience in this problem than I have. Good Luck! --Gary Msg#:11361 *GENERAL* 12-12-88 14:00:05 From: NEIL CHERRY To: STEVE SCHMIDT Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 11221 (ST4096 HD RELIABILITY) I think that the last message about the 4096 needs a bit more explaining. The 30 meg limit is a DOS limit not the Hard drive. And I though the limitation was a 32 meg limit for each partition. This feature is supposedly being addressed by the new DOS 4.0 the one written by IBM and thrusted apon Microsoft. NJC Msg#:11374 *GENERAL* 12-12-88 18:10:57 From: JIM NELSON To: STEVE SCHMIDT Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 11221 (ST4096 HD RELIABILITY) Our 4096 came with a Seagate supplied installation program called Disk Manager. It does low and high level formatting, allows any size of partitioning, and installs the drive on both XTs and ATs. It also has diagnostics such as disk controller tests, disk tests, and cable orientation tests. It also allows you to enter the bad sector list (that's attached to the drive on delivery). Our AT kit included mounting guide rails and requires a full height slot. Make sure you order cables. It is quite reliable with a WD-1006 controller at 1:1 interleave, but there are many faster drives available at higher prices. Msg#:11380 *GENERAL* 12-12-88 18:38:01 From: RICHARD ANDREWS To: STEVE SCHMIDT Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 11221 (ST4096 HD RELIABILITY) . I believe that the formatting software is by Ontrack Systems and is available separately as well as bundled with replacement drives. I don't have their address in front of me. . DOS supports up to 26 drives labeled A...Z. DOS, by default, supports 5 devices; if you are going to have more that 5 in the system you must put a line in your config.sys file indicating this. For example, if you had seven drives you would add the command LASTDRIVE = G . DOS uses this command to set aside some memory used in handling the extra devices. By devices I mean either a physical drive such as a floppy or a hard disk 32 MB and under or a logical drive which is a portion of a larger hard drive. For example, you could set up the 80 MB hard drive as two 32 MB partitions (drives C and D) and a third partition of 16 MB (drive E). . From what I have been hearing about DOS 4.0 I would stay away from it. It is apparently very buggy and has caused problems for many people. Msg#:12956 *GENERAL* 01-18-89 00:57:09 From: ERICJ MILLER To: STEVE SCHMIDT Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 11221 (ST4096 HD RELIABILITY) From what I've heard, Dos 4.1 is just as buggy.... Eric Msg#:12989 *GENERAL* 01-18-89 19:44:49 From: NATHAN ENGLE To: STEVE SCHMIDT Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 11221 (ST4096 HD RELIABILITY) Concerning the 4096 I haven't heard much. The older 4000 series had that violent kachunking head park mechanism. I have a 4038 that will move itself across a table if you cycle the power while it isn't bolted down. The newer 4000's have been redesigned for a softer autopark, but I have heard distant rumblings that the whole 4000 series is going to be discontinued due to the emminent arrival of half height hard disks that store 200+MB. The new drives might just make hard disk space very inexpensive en masse. For now the 4096 is probably a good enough drive. Don't cycle the power too much, etc, etc. and it'll probably do as well as any. If you need guaranteed reliability over several years, I have heard Miniscribe spoken very highly of. In fact the other day at work our department needed a PC so we got permission from another department to sort through their junk PCs to try to assemble one that worked. There were about 4 hard drives; 1 ST225 that worked, one ST225 that didn't, a non-functional Olivetti, and a Miniscribe. The Miniscribe was in excellent shape. Its host machine fell apart around it but the drive was still in good working order. Msg#:11226 *GENERAL* 12-10-88 03:22:31 From: BRIAN YEE To: ALL Subj: 8751H'S FOR SALE To all: I have a large quantity of 8751's for sale at reasonable prices. All have been functionally tested. If you are in- terested, please call me at (415) 487-3507 (eves) or (408) 452-1791 (days). Discount given for quantities of ten or more. Brian Yee Msg#:11233 *GENERAL* 12-10-88 10:08:25 From: PHILIPPE WETTERWALD To: ALL Subj: VIDEO CARD. Do you plan to shop for a new video card for Christmas? I do! You are currently using a video card (multisynch only) and found it fantastic! I would need your feed back on the card you are using to help me to make my mind! I am sure you understand what I mean, you probably was in the same situation that I am now. Any help? Msg#:11257 *GENERAL* 12-11-88 05:27:40 From: GARY LEAR To: PHILIPPE WETTERWALD (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 11233 (VIDEO CARD.) I strongly recommend the Video-7 cards. Any of them are a good buy, I have the Vega Deluxe (EGA) and a NEC multisync monitor. No problems of any kind at home or at work. Have fun making up your mind and Merry Christmas! --Gary Msg#:11267 *GENERAL* 12-11-88 11:46:42 From: PHILIPPE WETTERWALD To: GARY LEAR (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 11257 (VIDEO CARD.) Thanks Gary, Merry Christmas to you too. Msg#:11381 *GENERAL* 12-12-88 18:44:33 From: RICHARD ANDREWS To: PHILIPPE WETTERWALD (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 11233 (VIDEO CARD.) . I am using a Dell system 310 at work (this thing costs three times what my car is worth!) and the VGA card and monitor that comes with it is really great. Dell also sells them separately. I don't know who makes the card but Dell buys them from someone. Their VGA color plus monitor is really nice. The card and monitor go for about 800 bucks. If you're going to dream, dream big. Msg#:11394 *GENERAL* 12-12-88 21:09:28 From: PHILIPPE WETTERWALD To: RICHARD ANDREWS (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 11381 (VIDEO CARD.) Thanks for the dream! Msg#:11241 *GENERAL* 12-10-88 18:42:08 From: DAVE EWEN To: ALL USERS Subj: VIDEO CAMERAS The ROVER project in CCINK is related to several projects I have been considering for some time. My problem has been that I don't really know who to go to for inexpensive b+w video cameras. I would like one that offers fairly good resolution at a reasonable cost. Perhaps the ROVER camera was discussed in detail in part I, but I have only part II. The ROVER camera does not look cheap. Everyone is pushing camcorders, but cameras seem to be harder to find. Source suggestions? Recommendations? Msg#:11278 *GENERAL* 12-11-88 13:30:29 From: STEVE CIARCIA To: DAVE EWEN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 11241 (VIDEO CAMERAS) Thr ROVER camera is a Sony CCD camera and auto-iris motorized-zoom/focus 12-75 mm lens. The camera/power supply is about $1000 and the lens is about $400. Add another $600 for the pan/tilt and housing w/heater and you soon understand that this is serious stuff (it costs this much because it is all-weather operation). There are many low cost $200 cameras listed in Fordam Elec catalog. Also, GBC on Long Island has lots of low cost cameras. The advantage of CCD (unfortunately, they are expensive) cameras is that they are good in very low light and are now damaged if pointed directly at a bright light (sun, headlights, etc). --Steve Msg#:11342 *GENERAL* 12-12-88 09:59:47 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: DAVE EWEN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 11241 (VIDEO CAMERAS) Contact Fordham Radio at (800) 645-9518 or (800) 832-1446 in New York for low-cost B&W cameras. Msg#:11411 *GENERAL* 12-13-88 08:34:17 From: JEFF BACHIOCHI To: DAVE EWEN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 11241 (VIDEO CAMERAS) Dave, Steve's comment should read: CCD's are 'NOT' damaged by pointing at direct sunlight! jeff Msg#:11243 *GENERAL* 12-10-88 21:11:38 From: SCOTT T. HAMILTON To: ALL Subj: PC BASED TEST EQUIP. Steve... What have you seen on the market along the lines of PC based test equipment, ie storage scopes, logic analyzers, function generators, spectrum alaylsers, etc. for under $1500.00 (or in that ballpark range). Can you refer me to companies producing these products, and give any advice? Are there any that you prefer or have used? - Scott Hamilton PS.. RE the INK questionarre: Our subscription is bought for us as a group so that my answers were for our group, so mutiple answers were submitted.... Msg#:11271 *GENERAL* 12-11-88 12:52:35 From: STEVE CIARCIA To: SCOTT T. HAMILTON Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 11243 (PC BASED TEST EQUIP.) I forwarded your message to the General area. Perhaps soom other BBSers have an answer for you. --Steve Msg#:11955 *GENERAL* 12-27-88 10:29:02 From: JAMES MEYER To: SCOTT T. HAMILTON Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 11243 (PC BASED TEST EQUIP.) Scott, I can reccomend HEATHKIT's IC-1001 PC-based logic analyzer. At $250 it is a steal. Worth its weight in gold if you're doing development or debugging. Many other PC-based instruments in their catalog but I don't have hands-on experience with them. Msg#:11244 *GENERAL* 12-10-88 21:17:50 From: CARL GILES To: ALL Subj: XT AT HARD DRIVE QUESTIONS I want to get a hard drive for my computer. I have an XT CLONE and I know I could get a Miniscribe hard drive and a Western Digital controller but... I intend to get an AT CLONE LUNCHBOX in the near future, and I would want to move the hard drive over to that when I get it. Also, I would like to go for one of the faster access drives (maybe 30 ms) so that when I get on the AT CLONE, I would have a fast system. I don't know if the ST-506 interface is common to both ATs and XTs, so if some of you would care to give me a tutorial on the similarities and the differences between XT and AT hard drive systems, so that I could best balance the choices, I'd be pleased. Thanks in advance for your help. Regards, Carl Giles Msg#:11247 *GENERAL* 12-10-88 21:30:16 From: ANDY PICKETT To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: LASER WRITING Steve: Aw, C'mon Steve!! I've never known you to be a defeatist!! :-) I've been thinking this over some more, as you may presume. Couldn't you use a couple of high speed steppers in place of the galvos and achieve CLOSE to the same performance? -->Andy<-- Msg#:11258 *GENERAL* 12-11-88 05:34:49 From: GARY LEAR To: ANDY PICKETT (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 11247 (LASER WRITING) Not really. You *might* be able to use microstepping techniques and a very low mass mirror. Looks like Steve has to pull a hat out of the rabbit (anybody can do it the other way around) for us on this one. :-) --Gary Msg#:11272 *GENERAL* 12-11-88 12:55:33 From: STEVE CIARCIA To: ANDY PICKETT (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 11247 (LASER WRITING) Actually, I wish I could use micro steppers. I hate analog control systems!!! Servos have been also been suggested. I'll keep looking. --Steve Msg#:11253 *GENERAL* 12-11-88 02:35:27 From: LOAI A. NAJJAR To: ALL Subj: ISSUES 1-4 I AM TRING TO GET COPIES OF BACK ISSUES. I WAS TOLD THAT THEY WERE SOLD OUT. I WOULD LIKE TO KNOW HOW CAN I GET HOLD OF THEM. THAK YOU FOR YOUR HELP Msg#:11259 *GENERAL* 12-11-88 07:10:22 From: STEVE SAMPSON To: LOAI A. NAJJAR Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 11253 (ISSUES 1-4) As with any new magazine these will be collectors issues. They will be hard to get. You might try B Daltons, and ask if they have old issues in the back. Or any book store that has been selling it. I remember finding a stack of old Byte's issue 1 through 3 at the Byte Shop when that store was big; while everyone said it was impossible to find those issues. Personally, I don't collect magazines, don't have issues 1 through 3 of CC Ink and won't lose any sleep over it. Finally, you might offer someone $1000 and see if you get any offers :-^) Msg#:11279 *GENERAL* 12-11-88 13:38:23 From: STEVE CIARCIA To: LOAI A. NAJJAR Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 11253 (ISSUES 1-4) You might also try Walden Books. They sell CC INK as well. Finally, while I might even sell my own issue of CC INK #1 to you for $1000 , I suggest that you offer something more reasonable and realistic. Feel free to post a meessage for that purpose. --Steve Msg#:11255 *GENERAL* 12-11-88 03:31:57 From: JACK JACKSON To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: SP1000 Steve I am very interested in adapting the speech recognition project you presented in the November 1984 Byte.I am having difficulty locating and kind of demo software mentioned in the article.Is the demo software too large to be loaded to this BBS for a short period?If it is do you know where I could locate it?I've tried GI twice but received no response.Any help would be appreciated. Jack Jackson Msg#:11274 *GENERAL* 12-11-88 12:58:57 From: STEVE CIARCIA To: JACK JACKSON Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 11255 (SP1000) The demo software may not have been carried over from the old board. Also, if I remember correctly, the period granted to me for free distribution of the SP1000 Lisner code has expired. --Steve Msg#:11913 *GENERAL* 12-26-88 06:13:16 From: DALE NASSAR To: JACK JACKSON Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 11255 (SP1000) Jack, If you are intrested in a used SP1000 system let me know. --Dale Msg#:11980 *GENERAL* 12-27-88 17:25:58 From: GARY WHITE To: DALE NASSAR (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 11913 (SP1000) What are some parameters of your SP1000 system? I am interested in a voice recognition system to add to a robot which is limited by size and power. What is the size of the system, how much power does it require, and what inputs does it require and what outputs does it generate? Also, what are we talking (no pun intended) in terms of price? GWW Msg#:12053 *GENERAL* 12-29-88 01:35:30 From: DALE NASSAR To: GARY WHITE (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 11980 (SP1000) The unit is the full system described in the Nov 1984 Circuit Cellar. The unit is assembled and includes the SP1000 voice recognition option (Apple). I no longer have an Apple and will accept any reasonable offer. --Dale Msg#:12236 *GENERAL* 01-02-89 15:56:39 From: GARY WHITE To: DALE NASSAR (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 12053 (SP1000) Thanks for the info, but it doesn't sound like what I'm after. I don't have an apple either. What I need is a standalone system to go on a robot. Regards, GWW Msg#:12248 *GENERAL* 01-03-89 03:12:36 From: CRAIG THOMSON To: DALE NASSAR (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 12053 (SP1000) The SP1000 is no longer widely available from GI. I recently completed a stand alone speech system based on LPC analysis and faced a problem trying to obtain small numbers of this device for assessment. GI has recently released a 10 coefficient LPC IC which acts as the replacement for the SP1000. Personally I felt that the SP1000 was way over rated and the documentation that GI supplied to me on this device was in many instances incorrect and at best juvenile in technical detail. Msg#:11260 *GENERAL* 12-11-88 08:51:27 From: RICHARD OESTERLE To: ALL Subj: HERCULES GRAPHIC CARDS I'm new to the IBM world of computers and am writing a graphics program on a model 30-286 using QuickBasic. My program uses "screen 11" as I want the high res of 640*480 pixels. I would also like to incorporate Hercules compatability in my program but I'm not familiar with it. Perhaps someone could answer the following questions for me or recomend a book that has the info. . 1) Does the Hercules (or compatable) graphic adapter contain it's own memory for screen ram? . 2) Are each of the 720*348 pixels individually addressable? . 3) And last but not least, can I insert a Hercules (or compatable) graphics card into my IBM model 30-286 without conflicting with the built in VGA video controler on my mother board? Thanks, Rich Msg#:11323 *GENERAL* 12-12-88 06:59:34 From: GARY LEAR To: RICHARD OESTERLE (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 11260 (HERCULES GRAPHIC CARDS) Yes the Hercules card contains its own memory, all of the graphics cards do since IBM specified space in the memory map for video cards and this is the only practical way to provide it. As you can probably surmise, this also means that the video cards are bit addressable (except the MDA, which does not support graphics modes). I cannot answer your conflict question with certainity, but I know that it is possible to have multiple monitors and cards under certain conditions. As a recommendation however, try the graphics software from Metagraphics, it is capable of automatically selecting the correct driver and it provides * EXCELLENT * graphics for any language that supports long pointer structures. Good luck! --Gary Msg#:11386 *GENERAL* 12-12-88 20:02:18 From: ED NISLEY To: RICHARD OESTERLE (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 11260 (HERCULES GRAPHIC CARDS) Well, it's a little trickier than you might expect... You could stick the Herc card in your Mod 30-286, but I don't think it's a good idea. The VGA can emulate the old monochrome card, which uses the same address space as the Hercules. As long as you could GUARANTEE that you NEVER flipped the VGA into monochrome mode I think it would work out OK, but some software may do you in. Apart from that, you've got the right idea on the Herc. It has 720x348 dots and each one can be turned on or off. They're packed eight to a byte, as you might expect. The line addressing is a little funny; as I recall, they're interleaved 4:1 so you've got to be a bit clever when you're drawing things. The best source for down and dirty details on graphics programmings seems to be "Programmer's Guide to PC & PS/2 Video Systems" by Richard Wilton. It is published by Microsoft Press, will set you back about $25, and is well worth every penny. In addition to the official IBM video systems it includes details on the Hercules cards and a good discussion on compatibility issues. Have at it! Msg#:11403 *GENERAL* 12-13-88 01:13:17 From: JIM NELSON To: RICHARD OESTERLE (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 11260 (HERCULES GRAPHIC CARDS) Here is an excellent book about IBM video cards. The level of detail is through the roof. "Programmer's Guide to PC and PS/2 Video Systems", Richard Wilton, Microsoft Press, 1987. By the way, Wilton used to work at LMI, a premier vendor of MS/DOS Forths. Ray Duncan, his ex-employer, is the author of "Advanced MS/DOS", "Advanced OS/2", and other Microsoft Press tomes. And QuickBasic is a threaded language - just like Forth - but Microsoft would have the world believe they invented it. And I guess Ed Nisley has already told you about Wilton, but you will also find Duncan's books a big help in understanding ms/dos and os/2. Msg#:11505 *GENERAL* 12-14-88 23:13:41 From: RICHARD OESTERLE To: JIM NELSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 11403 (HERCULES GRAPHIC CARDS) TO: GARY LEAR, ED NISLEY, JIM NELSON . Thanks guys, for all the info on Hercules and other graphic cards pertaining to my model 30-286. Well it sounds like the safe thing to do would be to buy a cheap clone and install a Hercules card instead of risking a conflict with my onboard VGA. . Since my last message I went to my local Dalton's book store and found a book strictly on Hercules graphic cards. If any one is interested the info on that book follows: . "Programmers Guide to Hercules Graphics Cards" ($24.95) . author's name is Ferraro . published by Addison Wesley (ISBN 370 0-201-11885-8) I hope this method of responding to three responces (to my original msg) is acceptable to all (I'm still fairly new to BBSing) if not please forgive me. Oh, there is one minor question I wonder if someone has the answer to, if the Hercules card uses 720x348 pixels, why do I see some monitors rated at 720x350 instead of 720x348? Thanks again, Rich Msg#:11283 *GENERAL* 12-11-88 14:38:14 From: BRIAN JOSEPH To: KEN DAVIDSON (Rcvd) Subj: MARLIN P. JONES Ken, Just to let you know that I have ordered{a couple of times from MPJ and never had a problem. When I call, they tell me right a way that something is out of stock so there are no surprises when the package comes. Brian. Msg#:11336 *GENERAL* 12-12-88 09:24:55 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: BRIAN JOSEPH (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 11283 (MARLIN P. JONES) I've had good luck with them too. Thanks for the confirmation. Msg#:11294 *GENERAL* 12-11-88 19:13:46 From: KENNETH A SCHARF To: ALL Subj: FISHER-PRICE VIDEO Does anybody know anything about the fisher-price 'toy' camcorder? It uses standard high bias audio cassettes to store both audio and b&w video. The thing has a ccd camera. It looks like it would be an interresting thing to hack around with, perhaps with amateur radio sstv, or computer processed video. I know this can't be a full broadcast quality video signal, not on audio cassette. The ad's for this seem to sugjest this is 'real time' video, ie: moving pictures, not the one frame every few seconds of sstv. Even with fewer active lines, and pixels per line how do they fit it onto audio tape? I can't see you getting more than 100khz bandwidth onto audio tape cassettes even if you run the stuff up to 15ips or so. They can't be using a rotating drum, not for under $100. Does anyone know how this works? Msg#:11346 *GENERAL* 12-12-88 10:32:05 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: KENNETH A SCHARF Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 11294 (FISHER-PRICE VIDEO) Their "real-time video" is actually scanning at less than 30 frames per second. If you put some fast movement in front of the camera, you can see the update delays. They actually digitize the video using a somewhat low resolution (around 96x96 with 16 levels of grey, or so it appears) and update the display maybe 10-15 times per second. The tape runs over a fixed head at a much higher speed than a standard audio recorder. Playback looks OK (for a kid's toy), but often has white speckles scattered through the picture. And you burn up batteries like crazy. Seems every nook and cranny is stuffed with different kinds of batteries. Taking it apart, you find that the image sensor is a chip with a window in it and a fixed plastic lens mounted above it. No focusing here. You rotate a grey filter in front of the lens to account for bright light levels. Note that all of the numbers I cite are just guesses. We have a unit here that we've played with in the past and I'm just relating my impressions of it. Msg#:11347 *GENERAL* 12-12-88 10:35:38 From: STEVE CIARCIA To: KENNETH A SCHARF Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 11294 (FISHER-PRICE VIDEO) As Ken said, we have one. Unfortunately, we haven't seen yet how adapating it is less expensive than buying the video sensor that it would be emulating. The thing is so chock full of ASICs and custom chips that you can forget doing it as an easy project. --STeve Msg#:11553 *GENERAL* 12-16-88 03:01:22 From: ERIC BOHLMAN To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 11347 (FISHER-PRICE VIDEO) >Chock full of ASICs and custom chips Yes, that's the only way to produce consumer products at acceptable prices, as I keep trying to tell a certain problem client of mine who blames me for the fact that his products of my design cost a lot more than Japanese equivalents. The Japanese don't do contract runs of 50 at a time with standard parts purchased at Radio Shack prices and then marked up 25% by the contract manufacturer, but, as this guy always says, all the money has to go into promotion and molding the Styrofoam right, and development gets what's left over. (if you see several of my messages today, you can tell I'm rather bitter about this guy) Msg#:11906 *GENERAL* 12-25-88 17:00:38 From: KENNETH SCHARF To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 11294 (FISHER-PRICE VIDEO) Thanks for the info on this. Another interesting video device out there is the lionel rail scope, which is a ccd camera inside a model locomotive. I thought they were using the same pickup as the fisher price camcorder. I guess that it would be cheaper or simpler to start off a camera project with a sensor, than to hack to fisher- price unit. One thing I wanted to try was to build a small tv camera which would fit inside of a model rocket, and transmit back on the 450mhz ham band to a vcr on the ground. The camera would have to be small and low powered (also cheap as rockets do get lost!) The fisher price unit looked like way to start. Maybe not. Msg#:12572 *GENERAL* 01-08-89 21:52:12 From: STEVEN HARGUS To: KENNETH A SCHARF Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 11294 (FISHER-PRICE VIDEO) Somebody tell me about a lionel rail scope..... Msg#:12875 *GENERAL* 01-15-89 13:22:19 From: KENNETH SCHARF To: STEVEN HARGUS (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 11906 (FISHER-PRICE VIDEO) The lionel railscope is a small tv camera inside a scale model locomotive. It is made by Lionel (same lionel that has been making toy trains for over 50 years). The railscope is available in HO, O, O27, and LGB scales. They offer a cheap 5" B&W Tv as a monitor, but any tv or vcr can be used. The video is sent down the track, and is picked up at some point with a network that separates the track DC power from the video. The HO scale version sells for about $250-300 dollars. Check you hobby shop, they should have it in stock. It is listed in the Walthers model railroad catalog. Msg#:12930 *GENERAL* 01-16-89 23:13:51 From: STEVEN HARGUS To: KENNETH SCHARF Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 12875 (FISHER-PRICE VIDEO) As a strange coincidence, the day after I placed that message, my local "computer dealer" just bought one and was showing it off at his store. Neat! Thanks! Msg#:11307 *GENERAL* 12-11-88 20:04:36 From: FRANK SAPIENZA To: ALL USERS Subj: IMAGING CAMERAS... Hello! Does anyone have any information about the following two video cameras and their suitability for use in imaging applications? RCA TC1006C01 (B/W Auto Iris) Panasonic WV3700-EN (Color) Any information such as general specs, how long the camera has been on the market, typical pricing, etcetera, would be very much appreciated. I'm looking to purchase one of them (used) and the person selling them can't provide much information about them. My current needs are for simple image capture using a Macintosh. Thanks in advance, Frank Msg#:11365 *GENERAL* 12-12-88 14:27:39 From: NEIL CHERRY To: ALL Subj: IBM CGA/HERC GRAPH CARDS What I need is a manual that tells me where to find the registers etc for the IBM CGA or hercules color graphics cards. I am going to write a device driver for it and it is NOT going into a IBM or clone. I'm putting it into a PT-68000 that will be running OS9. Any help will greatly appreciated. NJC Msg#:11409 *GENERAL* 12-13-88 05:18:12 From: GARY LEAR To: NEIL CHERRY (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 11365 (IBM CGA/HERC GRAPH CARDS) Neil, there is a message thread here that discusses this very problem. I don't recall the name of the book, but several people, including Ed Nisley recommend it. --Gary Msg#:11421 *GENERAL* 12-13-88 09:11:38 From: NEIL CHERRY To: GARY LEAR (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 11409 (IBM CGA/HERC GRAPH CARDS) Thanks I'll go searching for it. NJC Msg#:11390 *GENERAL* 12-12-88 20:24:42 From: ED NISLEY To: ALL Subj: LCD BARGAIN If you're looking for an interesting I/O device, the TimeLines ad in the December BYTE (page 371) lists liquid crystal displays at 5 for $25. These are the little one-line, 16-character displays you see in laser printers. They use 5 volts and ground, although a slight negative bias voltage improves the visibility. They can handle either a 4- or 8-bit parallel interface with one strobe line. The programming interface is a little bizarre, but once you write the low-level routines they're wonderful. I'll be covering these things in a Furnace column next year, so you might want to stock up now. You'll probably figure out how to use 'em long before I get around to writing about 'em anyway... and, at 5 bucks apiece, how can you go wrong? The address is: . Timelines, Inc. . 1490 West Artesia Boulevard . Gardena CA 90247 . 1 800 872-8878 from continental US . 1 800 223-9977 from CA . 1 213 217-8912 from LA area and for technical info They have "hundreds" in stock now, but I bet a commercial buyer will nab the lot before long. Msg#:11391 *GENERAL* 12-12-88 20:50:29 From: ED PETERSON To: ALL Subj: SOLAR CELLS Does anyone know a good source for voltaic solar cells? I'm looking for relatively small ones to experiment with. Thanks, Ed. Msg#:11392 *GENERAL* 12-12-88 21:00:00 From: HAROLD BOE To: ALL Subj: POWER FROM IBM COM PORT I am designing a serial communications device for the COM port of an IBM PC. I am interested in finding out the best way to get power directly from the COM port itself. (Both the Microsoft and Logitech mice operate in this manner.) Any suggestions on where to find an article or any further information on this topic? Harold Boe Seagull Scientific Systems 15127 Northeast 24th, Suite 333 Redmond, WA 98052 (206) 451-8966 Msg#:11396 *GENERAL* 12-12-88 22:39:19 From: VIC RICHTER To: MARK LAMPKIN (Rcvd) Subj: SINGLE BOARD COMPUTER Mark, I noticed your message #10818 about a single board computer. I would be very interesed in finding out how to get one of these from you. My address is 107 Cub Lane, Kerrville, TX 78028 and phone is 512-367-5422, or leave me a message on this board. Hope to hear from you soon. Am presently studying 8088 Assembly Language using The VisibleComputer book/disk. Thanks. Vic Richter Msg#:11410 *GENERAL* 12-13-88 07:07:13 From: MARK LAMPKIN To: VIC RICHTER (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 11396 (SINGLE BOARD COMPUTER) Vic....I'll try to get the board in the mail to you within a couple of days....Mark Msg#:11633 *GENERAL* 12-17-88 11:23:17 From: VIC RICHTER To: MARK LAMPKIN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 11410 (SINGLE BOARD COMPUTER) HI Mark, Thanks alot...will be looking forward to it. Have been wanting to get more into this sort of thing, but the hang up is always getting a board layout and getting it made....don't like to breadboard these computer chips as have to many address/data lines, etc. for my patience! Will be talking to you later...VIC Msg#:11424 *GENERAL* 12-13-88 10:53:03 From: HAROLD MILLER To: ALL Subj: PHONE CALLER Help! I need the name of a manufacturer of a box that will call a preset phone number and deliver a pre-recorded message. All this should be activated by a simple switch or relay contact closure. This sounds like something that should be in use all over the place, but I can't find a source. (Of cource the fact that I am deep in the Oregon Sticks may have something to do with it...) Call me collect at (503) 479-1248, or leave a message here, or leave a message to Harold Miller on the RRR BBS in Rogue River Oregon (503) 582-4860. Much gracias. GREAT RAG. Reply has been deleted Msg#:11425 *GENERAL* 12-13-88 11:38:11 From: LARRY YOUNKINS To: ALL Subj: 8031 MATH ROUTINES Anyone aware of PD floating point and/or multiple precision integer arithmetic assembly routines for the 8031? Perhaps if someone has penetrated the Intel fortress known as the Microcontroller BBS and found anything they could be uploaded. Thanks Larry Younkins Msg#:11436 *GENERAL* 12-13-88 14:20:17 From: ED SCOTT To: ALL USERS Subj: BAR CODING EQUIPMENT FROM ED SCOTT MY BOSS WOULD LIKE INFORMATION ON BAR CODING EQUIPMENT USING A PORTABLE LASER SCANNER. IF YOU HAVE ANY INFORMATION ON THIS EQUIPMENT OR IF YOU ARE USING BAR CODING. PLEASE CONTACT MS. LAPARA AT A/V 363-6250 COM. (504) 942-6250 THANKS FOR ANY HELP. IF YOU LEAVE A MSG I WILL ALSO GIVE IT TO HER. Msg#:11439 *GENERAL* 12-13-88 15:17:52 From: JAME SMITH To: WHOEVER CAN HELP ME ! Subj: HARD DISK PROTECTION HOW CAN I WRITE A PROGRAM TO PREVENT ANYONE USING MY HARD DISK BUT THEY STILL CAN USE THE SYSTEM FROM FLOPY DISK ? ONLY THE RIGHT PASSWORD CAN MAKE THE SYSTEM RECOGNITE THE HARD DISK EXSITING, THANK. Msg#:11474 *GENERAL* 12-14-88 11:10:17 From: RICHARD ANDREWS To: JAME SMITH (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 11439 (HARD DISK PROTECTION) . I have seen ads in the back of PC magazine for programs that will password protect certain drives or certain subdirectories on certain drives. As an alternative, you might try Automenu which is shareware and should be available on several bulletin boards. It is a sort of a DOS shell that runs by menus; it can have password protection. Msg#:11451 *GENERAL* 12-13-88 18:00:05 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: ALL USERS Subj: MOTOROLA BBS Anyone planning to call the Motorola BBS should be aware that their number will be changing as of Monday, December 19. The new number will be (512) 891-3733 (FREE). A recording will greet those who call the old number, but that won't do much good for callers who turn their modem speakers off. I've done some raiding of their files, and cross-assemblers for the MC6800, MC6809, and MC68HC11 are in the IBM PC uploads area. There is also a Pascal utility for converting from S19 files to binary files. Msg#:11453 *GENERAL* 12-13-88 19:40:25 From: JOE PIERCY To: ROBOTICS HOBBYISTS Subj: ROBOTICS MAGAZINE Does anyone remembers magazine devoted to robotics that used to be one the news stands a year or to ago? I'm looking for copies for sale. It was about the size on CCINK and seemed strictly devoted to robotics issues. Any information would be appreciated. Msg#:11465 *GENERAL* 12-14-88 06:45:39 From: JIM NELSON To: JOE PIERCY (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 11453 (ROBOTICS MAGAZINE) You may be referring to "Robotics Age". It metamorphosed into "Robotics Engineering" when they decided to go after to more affluent advertisers. From the last (86) issue I've got it looks as though some guy in Peterborugh, NH was the publisher. I don't know if they're still afloat. There's also a trade rag called Robotics World. It's 99.44% fluff, but it's free. Msg#:11475 *GENERAL* 12-14-88 11:12:57 From: RICHARD ANDREWS To: JOE PIERCY (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 11453 (ROBOTICS MAGAZINE) . I beleive that Carl Helmers is the editor, at least he was about three years ago when he spoke to the robotics group of the Boston Computer Society. . Helmers was one of the original Byte editors. Msg#:11577 *GENERAL* 12-16-88 11:28:12 From: STEVE CIARCIA To: JIM NELSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 11465 (ROBOTICS MAGAZINE) I don't know about Robotics Engineering but "Robotics Age" eventually evolved into "Sensors" Magazine. It is a controlled circulation mag owned by Carl Helmers. --STeve Msg#:11630 *GENERAL* 12-17-88 07:17:01 From: JIM NELSON To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 11577 (ROBOTICS MAGAZINE) "Robotics Age" changed into "Robotics Engineering" beginning January, 1986 ( Volume 8 No. 1). Msg#:11752 *GENERAL* 12-19-88 22:07:19 From: JOE PIERCY To: JIM NELSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 11465 (ROBOTICS MAGAZINE) Thanks, Jim. I think it was Robotics Age. I think I may be able to find it at a university library near by. Msg#:11456 *GENERAL* 12-13-88 21:13:43 From: MATTHEW LEVINE To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: BACK ISSUES OF INK STEVE , IS THERE ANY POSSIBILITY OF A BACK ISSUE REPRINTING ( IF THE DAMAND IS HIGH ENOUGH ) ? IF SO ,WHEN SO I CAN WATCH OUT FOR IT (GREAT CHRISTMAS GIFT IDEA FOR ' 89 ') . THANKS , ->->-> MATT <-<-<- Msg#:11470 *GENERAL* 12-14-88 08:58:48 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: MATTHEW LEVINE (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 11456 (BACK ISSUES OF INK) As we've said numerous times, there are no plans for doing any sort of reprinting of entire issues. The cost is just too prohibitive. We may bundle related articles into reprints (like the weather series once it's complete), but there are no firm plans right now. Msg#:11753 *GENERAL* 12-19-88 22:43:02 From: MATTHEW LEVINE To: KEN DAVIDSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 11470 (BACK ISSUES OF INK) KEN , SORRY , I MUST HAVE MISSED THE PREVIOUS REFERENCES MENTIONED . I THINK THE SUBJECT BOOK SERIES IDEA IS EVEN BETTER THAN REPRINTS AS ONE WOULD HAVE ALL THE ARTICLES OF A PARTICULAR PROJECT IN ONE " BINDER ". KEEP US ABREAST OF PLANS TO THIS END ( I'M VERY INTERESTED ) . . THANKS FOR THE REPLY . . . . . ->->-> MATT <-<-<- Msg#:11472 *GENERAL* 12-14-88 09:32:23 From: NEIL CHERRY To: GARY LEAR (Rcvd) Subj: MICROCONTROLLERS AND RAM 4 meg eh, I think static ram would definitly been a draw back. Do you use a memory controller or a ttl /pal setup. NJC Msg#:11514 *GENERAL* 12-15-88 04:20:50 From: GARY LEAR To: NEIL CHERRY (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 11472 (MICROCONTROLLERS AND RAM) Good title choice. I originally wanted to use a memory controller, but I had trouble finding one that could do the job at a price I could afford. Do you have any suggestions? I currently haven't made up my mind on the refresh issue, but I want to keep it simple, since it really only has to provide refresh and sequential fetches from an initial base value. I prefer to use HCMOS logic, and although I use PALs, PLAs, and other stuff at work, I tend to not employ them for home projects. Let me know if you have any ideas. --Gary Msg#:11532 *GENERAL* 12-15-88 14:28:29 From: NEIL CHERRY To: GARY LEAR (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 11514 (MICROCONTROLLERS AND RAM) I haven't set anything but stat ram, but the next thing I'm going to work with is a 68020 and I'll use a memory controller and probably a moto part. I'm only a elec tech and have taught myself electronics, so I need a lot of info on mem refresh et al. NJC Msg#:12356 *GENERAL* 01-04-89 23:15:48 From: GARY LEAR To: NEIL CHERRY (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 11532 (MICROCONTROLLERS AND RAM) Maybe a general article on DRAMs is in order. --Gary Msg#:12376 *GENERAL* 01-05-89 09:38:53 From: NEIL CHERRY To: GARY LEAR (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 12356 (MICROCONTROLLERS AND RAM) An article would definitely be in order. I have a hard time understanding timing. If I can understand that then DRAM circuits would be easy to design into PALs ASICs. NJC Msg#:13047 *GENERAL* 01-20-89 05:57:58 From: GARY LEAR To: NEIL CHERRY (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 12376 (MICROCONTROLLERS AND RAM) I wil put it on my list of things to do, --Gary Msg#:11483 *GENERAL* 12-14-88 13:22:00 From: FRANK THORNTON To: INK RESEARCH STAFF Subj: ARTIFICIAL SPEECH The Sept/Oct Visible INK column had a question regarding using the Radio Shack CTS256A-AL2 & SPO256-AL2 chips. You refered to a Modern Electronics article about using these chips in a speech board. I'm currently building such a board, and would like to see this article, but I've never heard of Modern Electronics. Do you have an address where I might send for back issues or Reprints? Thanks -Frank Msg#:11489 *GENERAL* 12-14-88 16:43:56 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: FRANK THORNTON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 11483 (ARTIFICIAL SPEECH) Modern Electronics can be found at most newsstands and bookstores (at least those I frequent). They can be contacted at: Modern Electronics 76 North Broadway Hicksville, NY 11801 (516) 681-2922 Msg#:11492 *GENERAL* 12-14-88 20:29:03 From: STEVEN HARGUS To: ALL Subj: 8086 CHEAP ROMABLE FLOATING-POINT Does anyone know where I can get a good, cheap floating-point library for the 80x86 processors? It must be ROMable. I have a line on a floating-point package for $1250, but they only give you source code. What I would really like is a public-domain package. Msg#:11497 *GENERAL* 12-14-88 21:10:41 From: TIM WALTERS To: ALL Subj: HAYES MODEM FOR SALE I have a like-new Hayes 1200 Smartmodem (external) for sale. With manual for the great price of ------> $175.00 Leave me a message if you're interested. Tim Msg#:11498 *GENERAL* 12-14-88 21:18:02 From: TIM CODDINGTON To: ALL Subj: BCC52 SERIAL I/O PROGRAMMING I'm trying to program an interrupt service routine (ISR) to take over control of the "console" serial port. Eventually, I want the bcc52 to communicate with another cpu via the serial port. After developing the basic pgm there won't be any need for basic to use it So far I've gotten an ISR installed that simply echoes characters received back (by retransmitting the char). And, at the same time have basic do busy work. However, the "ONTIME" doesn't work. It never "gosub"'s to the line specified. The required "clock1" statement seems to continue doing the right thing (update var TIME). Does anybody know if there is some reason why the ontime statement wouldn't work under this situation. I'm only modifying the bits necessary to install the ISR. Any help would be appreciated. Tim Coddington (w) 412-268-7712 (h) 244-8557 Arpanet: tac@sei.cmu.edu Msg#:11743 *GENERAL* 12-19-88 13:39:59 From: JEFF BACHIOCHI To: TIM CODDINGTON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 11498 (BCC52 SERIAL I/O PROGRAMMING) Tim, No connection between ONTIME and SERIAL I/O except both are interupts! Does the ONTIME work properly without your mod? Are you CLEARIng interupts? SERIAL I/O will have higher priority. Are you using UO1 and UI1? Need more DATA! jeff Msg#:11500 *GENERAL* 12-14-88 21:29:06 From: TIM CODDINGTON To: ALL Subj: 68701 (6801) CROSS-ASSEMBLER? I'm looking for a good 6801 cross-assembler for the IBM PC. I downloaded one from the Motorola BBS, but it doesn't support certain things. Has anyone seen one of these animals around? Tim Coddington Msg#:11517 *GENERAL* 12-15-88 05:05:16 From: GARY LEAR To: TIM CODDINGTON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 11500 (68701 (6801) CROSS-ASSEMBLER?) Beware the 68701, in particular the reset line has several nasty problems. What are you missing in the Motorola assembler? I thought it prety good for freeware. --Gary Msg#:12200 *GENERAL* 01-02-89 01:33:14 From: JOE NOVOSEL To: TIM CODDINGTON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 11500 (68701 (6801) CROSS-ASSEMBLER?) I would like to find a 6801 and a 6805 cross assembler to work with the IBM PC. Does the 68(7)05 also have problems with it's reset line? And are the problems with the 68701 very serious? Msg#:12550 *GENERAL* 01-08-89 16:51:32 From: MATT OLSON To: JOE NOVOSEL Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 12200 (68701 (6801) CROSS-ASSEMBLER?) JOE 2500AD SOFTWARE INC. MAKES A PRETTY GOOD ASSEMBLER FOR THE 6805 AND OTHER MICROPROCESSORS. THEY CAN BE REACHED AT 303-369-5001. AVOCET ALSO HAS ONE AVAILABLE BUT I HAV NOT USED THEIRS. YOU MAY KNOW THAT MOTOROLA HAS ONE AVAILABLE ON THEIR BULLETIN BOARD WHICH CAN BE DOWNLOADED, BUT IT DOES HAVE CERTAIN LIMITATIONS (LACK OF MACRO SUPPORT IS ONE , I BELEIVE). THEIR BOARD # IS 512 440 3733. WHILE WE ARE ON THE TOPIC OF MOTOROLA, WHAT PROBLEMS HAVE THE HAD WITH THE 68705? I KNOW THAT THEY HAD A PROBLEM WITH 68HC805 IN THAT IF THE RESET LINE WAS FLUCTUATING OR NOT HELD LOW DURING A POWER DOWN THE MEMORY IN THE EEPROM COULD BE DISRUPTED OR WIPED OUT. THAT ONE HAPPENED TO ONCE. THEY HAVE COME OUT WITH A T0-92 PACKAGE 5 VOLT SUPPLY MONITOR THAT WOULD CONNECT TO THE RESET LINE AND GO LOW IF THE VOLTAGE ON THE 5V SUPPLY DROPPED BELOW A CERTAIN LEVEL (BASICALLY A COMPARATOR IN A NICE SMALL PACKAGE. THE PART # FOR THAT CHIP IS MC34064. MATT Msg#:11501 *GENERAL* 12-14-88 21:35:22 From: MARK SNOW To: ALL Subj: SB-180 FOR SALE I have a complete SB-180 system for sale that includes 9 mhz board,2 teac fd 55 drives, qume qvt 102 terminal,dbase 2,and other software 400.00 takes it.I also have a 6 mhz sb-180 board for 125.00. Leave msg or call 1 505 885 9105 for more info as I wont be on the board for about a month Msg#:11511 *GENERAL* 12-15-88 01:28:20 From: MIN WENG To: KEN DAVIDSON (Rcvd) Subj: 8752 ADAPTER Ken: Are you still sending out the article on the 8752 EPROM adaptor board? If so, I would like to receive on. my address is 3910 Glen Way, El Monte, CA 91731 Thank you. Min Weng. Msg#:11521 *GENERAL* 12-15-88 09:03:26 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: MIN WENG (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 11511 (8752 ADAPTER) The article will be appearing in either issue #7 or #8 of INK (depending on where there is room), but I'll send you a copy now. Msg#:11526 *GENERAL* 12-15-88 10:54:50 From: DAVID K. MERRIMAN To: ALL Subj: EPROM ERASURE For those of you in need of an EPROM eraser, and considering building your own, you might be interested to know that JAMECO Electronics (1355 Shoreway Rd, Belmont CA, 94002) sells a replacement bulb for one of their EPROM erasers- the Part Number is (as of the 89 catalog) UVS-11. The erasers may be found on page 73 of the 89 catalog. Msg#:11528 *GENERAL* 12-15-88 11:12:26 From: JAMES O'SULLIVAN To: ED NISLEY (Rcvd) Subj: PC ROMS Hi Ed! I would like to have a Turbo Pascal program executed when my home control PC-XT is booted. I do my programming on a 386, which doesn't have a 360K disk drive. I tried burning the EXE file into EPROM, plugging it into the PC, and calling it from debug, but it crashed. How can I convert the Pascal EXE file into a ROMable format, and how could I have it called after the system boots? The PC is a compatible, so it doesn't have IBM roms. Any help would be greatly appreciated! Thanks. Jim Msg#:11655 *GENERAL* 12-17-88 16:38:36 From: ED NISLEY To: JAMES O'SULLIVAN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 11528 (PC ROMS) A line in AUTOEXEC.BAT calling your program is gonna look real attractive after you finish reading this... Basically, the only way to get control of your XT before it boots off the floppy (or hard disk) is to write a driver that the BIOS will invoke while it's searching around for extensions. This is the way the hard disk BIOS and EGA BIOS code gets installed. The catch is that these BIOS extensions aren't "real" programs. They must have a very specific structure, can't use any DOS services, and must return control to the BIOS code to continue the boot sequence. You've got to write them in assembler; I suppose you could write some tricky startup code for a C compiler but I wouldn't want to do it on anything other than a cost-plus contract... If disk conversion is a problem, remember that a 1.2 MB drive can actually write a 360K disk that's _usually_ readable by a 360 K drive. The trick is that you MUST start with an absolutely blank, bulk erased diskette every time. Format it in the 1.2 MB drive as a 360K diskette, write the files on it ONCE and transfer it to the 360K drive. Apart from that, you can always use the old null modem serial cable, zap the files across and write the diskette on the XT. This is a little slow, but it works just fine. If you were planning to run a program from diskette that invokes a program in EPROM, the question that pops up is... why bother? Put the whole program on diskette and be done with it! A real problem with programs in EPROM is that there's not a lot of room left in the address space for programs. The ImageWise/PC article coming out in the Jan/Feb INK has a discussion of this problem that will fill in the details. Msg#:11533 *GENERAL* 12-15-88 15:59:26 From: DOUG CROMPTON To: ALL Subj: X10 AND ETC. Has anyone on the board done any work on RFI/EMI filtering of the X10 modules? I was aware of the noise output on the dimmer module but if you really want to hear some noise, put 100 feet of extension and 10 strings of Christmas lights on one!! S9+ across the HF spectrum. It appears that the most noise appears on the output lines. This is usually only on a lampcord length. Guess the normal filtering methods would work. I wish that they had put some more effort into filtering on the module. I wonder if it would pass FCC testing. The answer would be to not use lamp modules, but I like the ALL OFF/ON feature. Doug WA3DSP Msg#:11534 *GENERAL* 12-15-88 16:23:49 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: DOUG CROMPTON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 11533 (X10 AND ETC.) Ten strings of lights and 100 feet of extension cord on *one* module?!? I hope you've noticed that the modules are only rated for 300 watts. I don't have exact numbers in front of me on how much each of the different kinds of bulbs uses, but it seems to me 10 strings of any length and size bulb draw far more than 300 watts. No wonder the thing is screaming. Either use an appliance module or multiple lamp modules. I wouldn't think losing the "All Lights On" command would be much of an issue. You can simply set all the modules to the same house and unit code, then turn them all on with one command. If you have the new kind of mini controller, it's still just one button press. Msg#:11656 *GENERAL* 12-17-88 16:39:04 From: ED NISLEY To: DOUG CROMPTON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 11533 (X10 AND ETC.) At the brute-force level, extract a big ferrite yoke from a dead TV. Run a few hanks of that zipcord through the yoke and see how many dB it knocks off the jammer... Msg#:11538 *GENERAL* 12-15-88 20:01:05 From: JOHN COOK To: ALL Subj: WANTED: CHEAP MODEM Anybody out there got an IBM compatable modem lying around out there that they feel like parting with? Contrary to popular belief I still dont have my own modem and Im running off a friends machine to do this. All I'm looking for is something simple and *inexpensive*. Anyone feeling generous is kindly asked to leave a note here and wait, it may be a while before I can call this board again. Thanks! Msg#:11559 *GENERAL* 12-16-88 07:37:51 From: STEVE SAMPSON To: JOHN COOK (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 11538 (WANTED: CHEAP MODEM) I have an old Radio Shack 300 baud modem you can have. All manual and requires RS-232 cable. Slow though... Msg#:11704 *GENERAL* 12-18-88 21:44:31 From: JOHN COOK To: STEVE SAMPSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 11559 (WANTED: CHEAP MODEM) I'll take it, beggars can't be choosers. Tell me how much you want + postage and its done. Here's my Address: John David Cook 44 Windham Drive Simsbury, CT 06070 Ph. 203-658-9797 I really appreciate this, this will finally let me use my own computer to call this board. I owe you one. Msg#:11705 *GENERAL* 12-18-88 23:27:03 From: STEVE SAMPSON To: JOHN COOK (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 11704 (WANTED: CHEAP MODEM) Read the postage sticker on the shipping box and send me a check for that. The gadget has been sitting in my closet for about 3 years, if you can put it to use that would be good. If you upgrade, pass it on. Msg#:11776 *GENERAL* 12-20-88 19:28:59 From: JOHN COOK To: STEVE SAMPSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 11705 (WANTED: CHEAP MODEM) No problem. Much obliged steve. Msg#:11545 *GENERAL* 12-15-88 23:58:51 From: DAVID LAWSON To: LARRY YOUNKINS (Rcvd) Subj: 8031 MATH hi larry..i have several 8031 math routines off of the intel bbs ..i also have the ones in the microcontroller applications almost all coded. lemme know how to get 'em to ya. Msg#:11666 *GENERAL* 12-17-88 22:05:08 From: LARRY YOUNKINS To: DAVID LAWSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 11545 (8031 MATH) David, Thanks for the reply. It might be worth dropping a line to Ken Davidson (sysop) to see if such code could to uploaded to the CCBBS. Others might find it useful as well. If you could send me a DOS disk with the asm on it I will gladly send you money for a disk and postage. My address is: Larry T. Younkins 13408 Brandon Manor Court Mount Airy, MD 21771 Thanks again. Larry Younkins Msg#:11719 *GENERAL* 12-19-88 09:05:01 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: LARRY YOUNKINS (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 11666 (8031 MATH) I'd be glad to post them if they are uploaded. That way others could get to them as well. Msg#:11546 *GENERAL* 12-16-88 00:04:37 From: DAVID LAWSON To: ED PETERSON (Rcvd) Subj: SOLAR CELLS hi ed..there is a solar store in houston that sells BIG photovoltaic arrays (>1kw) and small stuff too..its southwest photovoltaic systems inc. (713)320-1022.. if you just want to play i suggest edmund scientific, they are at (609)573-6250..they have small (<.5w) chips to 10w panels. Msg#:11573 *GENERAL* 12-16-88 10:15:40 From: ED PETERSON To: DAVID LAWSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 11546 (SOLAR CELLS) David: Thanks for the info. I am looking for small stuff just to play around with but I'll try both sources to see what they can offer. Thanks again, Ed. Msg#:11554 *GENERAL* 12-16-88 03:04:51 From: ERIC BOHLMAN To: NEIL CHERRY (Rcvd) Subj: 6808 The 6808 is essentially a 6800 with on-chip clock generator. It's the same as a 6802 without the internal RAM. Msg#:11561 *GENERAL* 12-16-88 08:19:34 From: TIMOTHY SMITH To: ALL Subj: MULTIPLE DISPLAYS I saw a message printed in the Nov/Dec issue of Circuit Cellar Inc from Peter Sanders asking about multiple displays from an IBM PC/XT/AT. I couldn't help responding because the company that sends me home with a pay check produces several solutions to the problem. Our oldest video card (it's been out for at least 3 yrs) is a monochrome text card that may be switch selected to show up at one of 4 locations. It comes with a driver that replaces the BIOS video services and then adds services to switch between cards. Our second video card runs CGA at one of four addresses with similar BIOS patching software and also provides a mouse port and two 3-channel audio chips similar to those in an Atari ST. The third card that provides multiple display possibilities is a full-length card with up to 720K ram (256k increments), 320K EPROM (banked access for virtual disk drives), 2 Com ports, 1 LPT port, mouse port, 2 audio chips, and CGA video that may be set to one of four locations. Note that the two CGA-compatible cards can display CGA modes on a 50Hz monitor with the flip of a register bit but the display will be scrunched up a bit int the vertical axis. The cards are called 'Monochrome video card', 'AVM card', and 'Super Interface Card' in the order in which I described them. The company is: Electro Design, Inc. 690 Rancheros Drive San Marcos, Ca. 92069 phone# is (619) 471-0680 with an under-maintained BBS at (619) 471-0684 I would've listed prices but I only design stuff and have no idea what they charge for it...I hope this helps somebody. -Timothy Smith Msg#:11566 *GENERAL* 12-16-88 09:14:01 From: STEVE CIARCIA To: JIM NELSON (Rcvd) Subj: SCROLLING LED DISPLAY Sorry but your computation is a bit off. 940 Amps! Wow! Ed and I intend to multiplex the display and use high current pulses. Our preliminary calculations suggested that it would take 40 AMPS to run the display. Remember, only a small portion of the LEDs are on at any instant. Perhaps Ed could add more. --Steve Msg#:11629 *GENERAL* 12-17-88 07:15:38 From: JIM NELSON To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 11566 (SCROLLING LED DISPLAY) The multiplexing ratio is irrelevant if we're talking average current. My computation was correct, but my memory was faulty. Lighting all the LEDs in a 320 x 200 display ( 64,000 LEDs) with 15 mA average current requires 960 Amps. My assumptions: 120 mA pulses @ 1:8 multiplexing. Accounting for display blanking (off-time during refresh) of two percent reduces the actual current demand to 940 Amps. That's 15 mA average current with all LEDs logically lit. If I reduce the pulsed current 30% to take advantage of the eye's non-linearity I'm still supplying 660 Amps to get the equivalent brightness of 15 mA average DC nonmultiplexed drive. You list a figure of 40 Amps total instantaneous current. Compare that to my figure with the same assumptions: All LEDs logically lit ( all 64,000 pixels logically turned on) you'll be feeding those LEDs an average of 625 microamps apiece. So if I want to figure out the equivalent DC current induced brightness you're aiming for (as I did above with my assumed 30% advantage) it comes out to whatever's possible with 890 microamps average current. If you're using such efficient displays - Great! But you can't dismiss my analysis so perfunctorally; our results diverged only because our assumptions about the average current fed each LED differed. I must confess that I was sort of turned on by the idea of such a large LED display. I wouldn't have brought it up if I hadn't been both a bit bored at the moment with what I'm doing and used the requisite software and hardware technology before. As I said in the file attached to message 11305 I've designed multiplexed displays into five commercial products, including the one you mentioned in message 9451. And I wouldn't have spent the time writing the message 11305 file (describing background display multiplexing software and hardware) if I didn't think a few people worth telling. Msg#:11723 *GENERAL* 12-19-88 09:11:28 From: STEVE CIARCIA To: JIM NELSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 11629 (SCROLLING LED DISPLAY) If you plan on building our LED display, start stocking up on 5x8 arrays. We bought 250 for the occasion :-) --Steve Msg#:12092 *GENERAL* 12-29-88 20:58:38 From: ED NISLEY To: JIM NELSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 11629 (SCROLLING LED DISPLAY) Chiming in a little late... That 40 amp figure came from Steve's junkbox, which just happens to have a pile of 40 amp supplies holding the bottom down. I did a rough and ready calculation for some subpanels that used 40 amps each; the "sub" got lost between your humble narrator and Steve... I'm sure to hear about this at some point or another. Your numbers are much closer to reality! For what it's worth, his junk pile also includes some HP super-efficient red LEDs. We used them on the Mandelbrot Engine, driving them from 5 volts through a 3.3 K resistor! They're plenty bright when you're on-axis, even through a red filter. He's got 30,000 of them, so we may wind up using them for something along the way, although the thought of soldering a few thousand of them into a prototype isn't too appealing... One of the things we'd like to work out is how to build the thing. It'd be nice if we could use one PC board that holds the display bricks on one side and the driver circuitry and processor on the other. It sounds real nice, but then how do you secure the boards into a larger array? It may be that we've got to use two boards with sockets and standoffs. Clever ideas will be hastily appropriated... Msg#:11580 *GENERAL* 12-16-88 11:58:57 From: JAMES MEYER To: ALL Subj: BCC-11 AND FORTH I was re-reading an old issue of BYTE (April '85) because it seems that the older the issue, the better it is. Kinda like wine I guess. Anywho, on page 413 is a MICROMINT ad for the BCC-11 series of SBC's. A quote from the ad: " Write your programs in basic and translate them into forth with a single keystroke ". Well..... I have been using BCC-11's since Steve designed them, first in basic and later in forth flavor, and have never seen any way to do this. Was this wishful thinking on some ad writers part, vaporware, an april fool joke, or what? Could some CC or MICROMINT historian fill me in on the details? TNX BCNU Jim. Msg#:11581 *GENERAL* 12-16-88 12:07:16 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: JAMES MEYER (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 11580 (BCC-11 AND FORTH) It is a real program that runs on the IBM PC. You type a line of BASIC and it spits out the equivalent Forth. It was never formally marketed, and only a few copies were ever sent out. We're looking into how to handle the program now, so give us a few days. Msg#:11585 *GENERAL* 12-16-88 13:05:50 From: HAROLD MILLER To: MARK LUCAS (Rcvd) Subj: THANKS THANKS FOR THE INFO. I'LL FOLLOW IT UP. Msg#:11588 *GENERAL* 12-16-88 13:08:26 From: ERIC SCHUYLER To: ALL Subj: TELEPHONE AUDIO INTERFACE Does anyone have a simple circuit which will allow you to record audio from the telephone line as well as put recorded audio back onto the line? Basically I guess I am looking for the audio portion of a standard telephone answering machine. By the way, my application is to use a COVOX Voice Master Digitizer and Speech Thing to act as a simple voice mail system. Thanks!! Oh, if anyone knows of a commercial device for this purpose, that would be fine. Msg#:11591 *GENERAL* 12-16-88 14:12:10 From: DAN CRONIN To: ALL Subj: CHIPS FOR SALE! STATIC RAM CHIPS FOR SALE! We have 130, 6264LP-15 ram chips for sale. Some are -12 (120ns) and -10 (100ns). All like new!!! They were removed from bar code readers and replaced with 32K chips. Best offer ! Call Dan Cronin at SyntegraTech, Inc. (603) 225-4008 Dan . Msg#:11592 *GENERAL* 12-16-88 14:31:23 From: STEVE CIARCIA To: DOUG CROMPTON (Rcvd) Subj: X-10 CONTROLLED XMAS LIGHTS I have my Xmas tree on an X-10 module too. But, since I previously noticed that the RFI is terrible, I do it a different way. One other reason is that there are over 1000 lights on my tree! I use an appliance module (15 amps) feeding a 800 Watt Variac autotransformer which actually sets the dimming. I run the tree at about 80 volts and the lights last forever (besides reducing the power required). --Steve Msg#:12788 *GENERAL* 01-13-89 17:46:24 From: DOUG CROMPTON To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 11592 (X-10 CONTROLLED XMAS LIGHTS) Thanks Steve, Sorry for the delayed reply. I have been away on my honeymoon! Sounds like a good way to do it. Those Dimmer modules and Amateur Radio just do not coexist! When I get alittle more time I am going to try some noise reduction schemes and will report what I find out. By the way I still have the old DG (Digital Group) computer stuck in a corner. I can't bring myself to throw it out, which is about all I could do with it. It still works fine. Every once in awhile I turn it on. Oh the good old days! I ported all of the CPM stuff over to an Ampro which I still use fairly often. We still have a group of DGers (now PCers) that get together regularly in the Phila. area. Have a Happy New Year! Doug Msg#:11596 *GENERAL* 12-16-88 15:10:49 From: STEVE CIARCIA To: ALL USERS Subj: CONSULTANT OPPORTUNITIES In our recent survey of the CC INK audience we discovered a very professional group, many called themselves consultants. Equally significant were the ranks of managers and decision makers who deal with and hire such individuals. A perfect match! All reading the same magazine! IDEA! We don't have a lot of time before ads close for our next issue (Jan-Feb) so we'll only be able to mention this opportunity here on the BBS, but if we can find at least eight people willing to call themselves consultants and put $125 each on the line, Circuit Cellar INK will publish a Consultants Mart ad page in the next issue. Each ad is 1/9 page (9 per page) and costs $125 per issue. The ads will only be from people offering software or hardware consulting services, no parts or boards, etc. Consulting services can be board layout services, however. You can supply camera-ready ad copy, or for a small fee we will take your note scribbled on the back of a napkin and typeset it into a glorious presentation of your services. If you would like to reserve one of these ads, send me an Email message with the particulars (phone, name, who, what ,where, etc.) or call Dan Rodrigues at CC INK. Phone 203-875-2199, FAX 203-872-2204. Consider the following as examples: ------------------------------------------------------ VOICE-MESSAGING SYSTEMS: We are the pros. Call us for help in setting up your telemarketing system, etc. Call XYZ Computer Consultants, Salt Lake City, UT Phone:xxx-aaa-bbbb FAX:xxx-aaa-bbbc ------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------------------------------ EMBEDDED CONTROLLER SOFTWARE: I do 8031/8051/68HC11 embedded controller software. Ten years experience. Many designs in production. John Dimple, 123 Anywhere Lane, Huntsville, AL, Phone:xxx-aaa-bbbb ------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------------------------------ PC BOARD LAYOUT: $1.75 per hole. Single- and double- sided layout. You provide the schematic, we provide prototypes and films. George Howell, 567 Main St., Poughkeepsie, NY, Phone:xxx-aaa-bbbb ------------------------------------------------------ Just remember, I got my start by doing a little consulting on the side . Look at all the trouble I'm in now. --Steve Msg#:11600 *GENERAL* 12-16-88 16:31:12 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: ALL USERS Subj: ALAN Would the person who signed on as just "Alan" leave me another message after logging on with his full name? I'll answer your questions and tell you more about what is in Vernon once you do. Msg#:11602 *GENERAL* 12-16-88 17:11:22 From: MICHAEL MYERS To: KEN DAVIDSON (Rcvd) Subj: BCC25 KEN, Could you or any other reader of this message tell me what issue of Byte contained the BCC25 article.Also are any of the drivers still available on this board or on rom through micromint. I know that the complete BCC25 is still available through micromint ,but I happen to have a few of the LM213B displays. I'm using a BCC180 and would love to use the displays. thanks,MPM Msg#:11604 *GENERAL* 12-16-88 17:15:32 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: MICHAEL MYERS (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 11602 (BCC25) The BCC25 was never an article. Not every Circuit Cellar article is produced by Micromint or CCI, and not every Micromint product was an article. The two only overlap; they aren't synonymous. There is an EPROM with drivers in it for the BCC52 that is available when you buy the board, but there isn't anything posted on the BBS or for the BCC180. Msg#:11618 *GENERAL* 12-16-88 21:21:12 From: MARK BALCH To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: IN-CIRCUIT EPROM EMULATOR Steve, In a previous issue of BYTE, (1987?) there was an article series about building an In-Circuit EPROM emulator. I could use one and would not mind building it myself (as opposed to buying one). Can you tell me which issus it was in? and if I remember it was limited to 8K EPROMs, can it be upgraded to 64K? (27512) Thanks alot, Mark Msg#:11720 *GENERAL* 12-19-88 09:07:34 From: STEVE CIARCIA To: MARK BALCH (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 11618 (IN-CIRCUIT EPROM EMULATOR) Sorry, Mark, the only articles in BYTE that I can accurately quote time and place for are my own. And, I didn't write that one :-) I recommend that you give BYTE a call 603-924-9281 and ask Rick Grehan to check it for you. --Steve Msg#:11784 *GENERAL* 12-21-88 00:28:37 From: FRANK KUECHMANN To: MARK BALCH (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 11618 (IN-CIRCUIT EPROM EMULATOR) Mark -- The Apr 86 BYTE has the emulator project; see the Dec 88 ASK BYTE column for how to adapt it for larger EPROMs. Msg#:11811 *GENERAL* 12-21-88 17:19:40 From: MARK BALCH To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 11720 (IN-CIRCUIT EPROM EMULATOR) Thanks anyway. I'll see about that. I could have sworn that I saw an ASK BYTE reply from you about an EPROM emulator...I'll check through my back issues of it and see if I was seeing things. Oh, I got your letter today regarding TTL loading and BBS noise. Well as you see, my noise has stopped (I got a new phone line). Thank you for that lengthy discussion of TTL loading. I'll re-read it later. Thanks, Mark Msg#:11812 *GENERAL* 12-21-88 17:21:03 From: MARK BALCH To: FRANK KUECHMANN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 11784 (IN-CIRCUIT EPROM EMULATOR) Ah, that's it. Thanks alot. I'll go to my library and take a look at the April 86 issue. I knew that there was a reference to it in a previous ASK BYTE. Thank you, Mark Msg#:11619 *GENERAL* 12-16-88 22:13:41 From: DAVE EWEN To: ALL Subj: EISA BUS So what is the general consensus concerning the EISA bus? Will it survive? Any reactions to pc mag's recent anti-eisa bus issue? Msg#:11637 *GENERAL* 12-17-88 12:27:54 From: NATHAN ENGLE To: DAVE EWEN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 11619 (EISA BUS) I wasn't aware there had been an anti-EISA issue since I don't read PC magazine. All I know about EISA is what I read in EE Times, and they seemed to indicate that there was a substantial crowd of vendors about to launch EISA 386's. I guess that the PC mag people were worried they would have to go out and buy another high priced consultant if EISA comes on line. As for whether the EISA is better or worse than any other 32 bit bus, I would have to say, Yes it is better or worse. (But probably not so much better or worse to be an issue). The thing I see EISA having in its favor is the ability to use a huge number of current boards and inexpensive peripherals that have popped up in the PC market. Micro Channel cards are way too expensive, and Nubus (that's right, I heard a rumor about interfacing a 386 to Nubus) is a compatibility nightmare. All in all, I'd say that EISA has an excellent chance as long as ignorant pseudo-high-tech magazine editors keep off its back. I believe in the power of the press to kill any product, even the most inevitable ones. Msg#:11657 *GENERAL* 12-17-88 16:39:41 From: ED NISLEY To: DAVE EWEN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 11619 (EISA BUS) EISA is probably a dead duck. You'll see some machines, but it won't be the next PC standard. The key point nobody's emphasized is that the EISA bus can't run at the new higher speeds with old slower cards, for the same reason that those older cards tend not to work in current machines with 12 MHz buses. If the decoding logic on the card can't handle the increased speed, you can't use the cards on the bus. So if you want all the advantages (?) of EISA, you get to junk all your existing cards and buy all new cards. Does this sounds suspiciously like another bus you've heard of in the recent past? And all the manufacturers agree that memory will live on a tightly coupled (read "proprietary") CPU bus that doesn't pass through those new standard EISA connectors. So you've got a bus design that improves the part of the system you use very little. Ask yourself how often your disk drive light goes on during the day... improve that by a factor of, say, ten and see just how much your computing throughput improves. For what it's worth, I think you can now get all the cards you need for Microchannel machines with no particular problem. They tend to cost more than stock cards, but anyone with more than a few years of memory can recall just what they paid for a 256K multifunction card for their orignal PC... even discounting for inflation! Msg#:11676 *GENERAL* 12-18-88 11:24:32 From: NATHAN ENGLE To: ED NISLEY (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 11657 (EISA BUS) You make some good points. I don't think EISA will catch on that well myself, but there are several things about it that will make it popular with cheapskates. I believe that fast (~16Mhz) clone cards for AT bus are still less expensive than equivalent MCA cards. The big thing EISA will do is to provide competition with the IBM machines, to maybe bring IBM's outrageous prices down. In the end, the arrival of the '486 will probably push EISA out before it gets a chance to catch on. And don't forget a sordid but important point, further purchases of AT-compatible products can now be justified (sort of) because they will be usable in the EISA environment (when it arrives). This might be a ploy invented by AT bus designers who saw several new powerful 32 bit competitors pop up on the horizon, and began to hear muttered oaths of discontent from their user community. A new bus, even a promised bus, might be enough to convince the PC community that their substantial investment in hardware is not going to be thrown away. Msg#:11876 *GENERAL* 12-23-88 15:33:57 From: DAVE EWEN To: NATHAN ENGLE (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 11676 (EISA BUS) (Re: PC Mag, Dec 27, Vol 7, No 22) The thing I don't understand is how EISA is going to operate at such high data rates. The AT bus requires over one micro-second per transfer, but EISA will supposedly manage it in 120 ns. I think Ed is on the mark with regard to the 'bus bottleneck,' which really may not even exist anymore. If we have memory on its own 32bit bus, as all the new 386 machines do, then that in itself is a major fix. What else needs a high speed 32bit connection to the system? The only thing I could see is maybe a next-generation graphics card. Can I have maybe just one EISA slot? Msg#:11620 *GENERAL* 12-16-88 22:18:20 From: DAVE EWEN To: ALL Subj: FUTUREBUS Is anyone familiar with the basic futurebus specs? Is it a 32 bit bus? Doesn't it use special bus drivers or something? Msg#:11626 *GENERAL* 12-17-88 00:23:22 From: RANDY MERKEL To: ALL Subj: 6809 SOFTWARE Howdy; I'm looking for a *cheap* 6809 cross assembler/linker/compiliers for the IBM PC! Randy.............. Msg#:11647 *GENERAL* 12-17-88 14:30:51 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: RANDY MERKEL (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 11626 (6809 SOFTWARE) Well, you can't get much cheaper than the 6809 cross-assembler located here in the IBM PC section of the new uploads file area. Select iles, Uploads, and Recently uploaded IBM PC files. Msg#:11685 *GENERAL* 12-18-88 15:22:09 From: RANDY MERKEL To: KEN DAVIDSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 11647 (6809 SOFTWARE) Thank's. Is it (the 6809 cross-assembler) the same as the one one the Motorola Freeware BBS? Randy ... Msg#:11687 *GENERAL* 12-18-88 15:57:05 From: RANDY MERKEL To: KEN DAVIDSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 11647 (6809 SOFTWARE) Also, the Motorola FreeWare 6809 assembler does not use macros, the manual talks about 'm4' or 'm6' which I assume are pre-processers. Do you know where I might find them? Thanks again, Randy ... Msg#:11627 *GENERAL* 12-17-88 04:08:55 From: DANIEL DOURNEAU To: SYSOP (Rcvd) Subj: INK SUBSCRIPTION Calling from france. Is it possible to renew ink subscription through this BBS ? If so let me know. I missed on issue #1 of INK, would someone be kind enough to make a photocopy of issue #1 and forward it to me. If so let me know and I shall forward my address and amount needed for cost of copy and postage. Thank you all. Daniel Msg#:11645 *GENERAL* 12-17-88 14:17:28 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: DANIEL DOURNEAU (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 11627 (INK SUBSCRIPTION) We can't renew subscriptions through the BBS. If you're currently a subscriber, you'll receive a renewal notice in the mail. Sorry, but if we photocopied back issues for everyone who's been looking for them, we'd burn our copier (and the person making them) out. Issues 1-4 are not available in any form from us. Msg#:11735 *GENERAL* 12-19-88 10:40:59 From: STEVE CIARCIA To: DANIEL DOURNEAU (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 11627 (INK SUBSCRIPTION) As Ken said, issues 1-4 are sold out but we intend to reprint the whole first year of CC INK in book form. It will be available in April. --Steve Msg#:11628 *GENERAL* 12-17-88 04:49:43 From: RON JACKSON To: ALL Subj: CALL WAITING Hi guys. Can any one tell me how to cancel call waiting from MA Bell. Any time I get a 2nd call it will hang me up. I've been told there is a way to turn it off and on from my phone, but don't know how to do itI'm sure some of you must have the same problem. Thanks for any help. RON JACKSON 609-5-7121 Reply has been deleted Msg#:11650 *GENERAL* 12-17-88 15:50:58 From: KENT DAVIS To: GREGORY KOSCHARA Subj: BIOS i noticed that pc-ohio II has two bios listing in there assembly language message area if that will be any help to you. (one uses a-86 compiler and the other uses masm 4.0 compiler) kent davis Msg#:11659 *GENERAL* 12-17-88 18:04:23 From: BRUCE WEBB To: BRUCE MEISSNER (Rcvd) Subj: CONTROL-R BOARD Bruce -- I received your letter on Thursday, and was a little surprised. The board finished and will either go out Monday or on the 27th (I'll be shut down over Christmas). If you think of any questions let me know on the BBS or at home. Have a good Holiday. Bruce Bruce Webb 10125 S. Roseboro Rd. Sandy UT 84092 (801)-571-7643 Msg#:11856 *GENERAL* 12-22-88 23:15:20 From: BRUCE MEISSNER To: BRUCE WEBB (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 11659 (CONTROL-R BOARD) Why surprised? I could easily built the board, but I admit that I can be alittle lazy. Anyway glad to hear that the U.S.Snail got the letter to you so quickly. Merrry Christmas. Bruce Meissner Msg#:11679 *GENERAL* 12-18-88 11:51:45 From: DOUG BUHRMAN To: ALL Subj: TELEVIDEO 912 SCHEMATICS I have a 912C terminal that is dead in the water. All supply voltages are ok but no video or data out of the serial port. The unit beeps when it is turned on so I assume the CPU is workings. Does anyone have a schematic of this terminal that I could get a copy of?? Thanks. Doug Buhrman Msg#:11688 *GENERAL* 12-18-88 16:06:50 From: MIKE DINGELDEY To: ALL Subj: PART IDENTIFIACTION Could anyone tell me what an 8742 is?? I have one, but am unable to find it in any of my intel manuals..... help is appreciated... Msg#:11690 *GENERAL* 12-18-88 16:28:01 From: BOB PADDOCK To: MIKE DINGELDEY (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 11688 (PART IDENTIFIACTION) From the 1985 Intel Microsystem Compnents Handbook Volume I: The 8042/8742 is a Universal Peripheral Interface 8-bit Microcomputer. Pg 5- 826, 635, 639, 910. The part is discribed in Volume II. I didn't see it in the 1987 or 1988 books so I would assume it as been discontinued. Msg#:12570 *GENERAL* 01-08-89 20:46:56 From: MIKE DINGELDEY To: BOB PADDOCK (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 11690 (PART IDENTIFIACTION) Thanks for the info. I did find the 8042 section in the 1988 book...must have missed it the first time through. Msg#:11699 *GENERAL* 12-18-88 17:44:59 From: RICHARD A. DUNN, JR. To: ALL Subj: E-MAIL is htis message board echoed to any other board in the boston area. my phone bill could probably make a saint cry. and looking here it could be worse. also are there any other boards in the boston area with similar interests. does anyone out there get into microwave and is there a kit available for a dual trace scope for 1hz to 1gig. If tou get into microwave do you get into ufos? If so would you sign a nondisclosure. I would prefer you come from the boston area. thank you. reagards, Richard Dunn. Msg#:11728 *GENERAL* 12-19-88 09:28:33 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: RICHARD A. DUNN, JR. Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 11699 (E-MAIL) We aren't connected to any echoes or nets, so, no, we don't echo Email to Boston. If your BBS phone bill is over $25 per month, you might want to check out PC Pursuit. Go to the PCP information section from the main menu. Msg#:11702 *GENERAL* 12-18-88 20:12:23 From: GREG WHITE To: ALL Subj: EPROMS I've got a question about EPROMS and I'm sure someone can help. I want to use some 27512's and I'm a little confused about 2 pins. What is the difference between pins 20 and 22. 20 is CE* which I assume is Chip Enable/NOT and 22 is OE* which I assume is Output Enable/NOT. Is this correct? How do they differ? I want to place the chip on a 68000 bus and am a little unsure how to use these pins to select the chip. Can anyone lend a hand? I'd really appreciate it. . Thanks, Greg Msg#:11748 *GENERAL* 12-19-88 19:17:18 From: BOB PADDOCK To: GREG WHITE (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 11702 (EPROMS) Your assumptions are correct about the pins. They differ manily in speed and standby power consumption. With CE* high, the part takes vary little power and OE* is irrelivant. With CE* low the part is active, with OE* controling the output drivers. Usualy CE* is driven by the address decoder, and OE* is driven by RD* or RD/WR* inverted on the 68000. Msg#:11762 *GENERAL* 12-20-88 01:00:28 From: GREG WHITE To: BOB PADDOCK (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 11748 (EPROMS) Thanks, Bob. That tells me everything I need to know. Later, Greg Msg#:11708 *GENERAL* 12-19-88 01:45:17 From: KEN HOWELL To: ALL Subj: ARRRRRRGH! I've been working (off and on) on a project for my Amiga -- an EPROM programmer for the parallel port. Slow, but adaptable to a number of other devices needing parallel lines. I went out and bought a few of the Radio shack 44 pin expansion cards (digital layout), thinking that I may want to plug all of this into an expansion bus someday. I now find out that the pc-mount DB-25's (actually, I think they're DB-23's) don't line up to the holes on the cards. Are such DB connectors available? By the way, is there a mail order source for the 68hc11? --Ken. Msg#:11727 *GENERAL* 12-19-88 09:27:18 From: NEIL CHERRY To: KEN HOWELL (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 11708 (ARRRRRRGH!) I have purchased several of radio shacks boards with the dual db-25 connector plates on them and have connected amp right angle db-25 connectors on them and they work fine. Sounds like the boards you are using are not the BD-25 type but instead just the plain wire wrap type. NJC Msg#:11857 *GENERAL* 12-22-88 23:47:30 From: KEN HOWELL To: NEIL CHERRY (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 11727 (ARRRRRRGH!) I'll check to see. --Ken. Msg#:11754 *GENERAL* 12-19-88 23:12:03 From: MATTHEW LEVINE To: KEN DAVIDSON (Rcvd) Subj: ' 88 ' COMPENDIUM ISSUE(S) KEN , NEED ANY HELP COMPILING OR APPENDING ARTICLES FOR THE ' 88 ' COMPENDIUM ISSUE(S) ? . . ->->-> MATT <-<-<- Msg#:11755 *GENERAL* 12-19-88 23:16:00 From: MATTHEW LEVINE To: ALL Subj: BACK ISSUES TO BORROW I WAS WONDERING IF ANYONE OUT THERE WOULD MIND LOANING THE FIRST 5 ISSUES TO SOMEONE IN THE CENTRAL CT AREA INTERESTED IN CATCHING UP BEFORE IT'S TOO LATE ? . . ->->-> MATT <-<-<- Msg#:11756 *GENERAL* 12-19-88 23:27:33 From: ALLAN LONG To: JIM NELSON (Rcvd) Subj: FARADAY CAGE I thought your discourse on the faraday cage was very interesting. Have you ever heard of Van Eck (sp)? Msg#:11888 *GENERAL* 12-24-88 03:50:46 From: JIM NELSON To: ALLAN LONG (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 11756 (FARADAY CAGE) Van Eck is a mystery to me. Msg#:12204 *GENERAL* 01-02-89 02:58:43 From: ALLAN LONG To: JIM NELSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 11888 (FARADAY CAGE) Well Van Eck (spelling?) was a dutch boy who figured out that you could decipher any computer screen remotely by using an antenna, and a tv set and a few other goodies, from across the street. There was an article about him in the wall street journal along with the information on the governments tempest project which uses faraday cages to diffuse (scatter) the emissions so as not to allow this kind of monitoring. Oh well. Allan Msg#:12410 *GENERAL* 01-05-89 18:38:55 From: JIM NELSON To: ALLAN LONG (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 12204 (FARADAY CAGE) A defense contractor named E-Systems builds that sort of stuff for the spies at the CIA and the NSA. Msg#:12436 *GENERAL* 01-06-89 01:52:04 From: ALLAN LONG To: JIM NELSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 12410 (FARADAY CAGE) You know a friend of mine from Longview, Texas works for E-Systems (dallas) but I am sure he couldnt discuss it if he worked on the Tempest stuff. I thought that one of the likeminded souls on this BBS might have a little insight on the Van Eck stuff. I believe that a little bird told me that E Systems mainly does work on the airborne command post planes, awacs and such like but who knows? Sounds more like a project for R & E than Ink anyway whatdaya think?|) Msg#:12468 *GENERAL* 01-06-89 17:44:57 From: ALEXANDER SCHNEIDER To: ALLAN LONG (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 12436 (FARADAY CAGE) I have heard a little bit about it, the receiver works on the horizontal scanning frequency, but for some reason the setup doesn't get the sync right, so your hardware has to generate it. Msg#:12473 *GENERAL* 01-06-89 18:54:44 From: JIM NELSON To: ALLAN LONG (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 12436 (FARADAY CAGE) E-Systems built a box that sits on power lines, and reads the typing on electronic typewriters from a mile away. I don't know where I read this - it may be apocryphal, but supposedly they were able to zoom in on individual typewriters in a room full of them. It's probably not that sensational given the state of signal processing technology, and the cheapness of dsp. Regarding the monitoring of PC video monitors from across the street: I have a video monitor located about eight feet away from the computer video monitor on which I'm watching my typing. If I disconnect cable from the vcr feeding that video monitor I am sometimes able to view the computer video on that other monitor, although it is clearly unsynchronized. It would be relatively easy to recover the sync info and monochrome info with even a poor antenna, but I don't know how one could recover component ttl video info, or component (rgb) analog picture info with that antenna. Have you read the descriptions of microwave resonator based non-electronic bugs in a book called "Spycatcher"? Funny thing about that piece of non- fiction is the author's conclusion. Although a former section head at MI-5, and having dedicated his time there to the design of electronic surveillance devices, none mattered because the Director General of MI-5 was a Russian agent. It's always easier if you start at the top! Msg#:12484 *GENERAL* 01-07-89 04:02:39 From: ALEXANDER SCHNEIDER To: JIM NELSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 12473 (FARADAY CAGE) Typewriters are easy to bug with a simple microphone, or anything that can record the length of time between the key being pressed and the ball hitting the paper. Msg#:12721 *GENERAL* 01-12-89 00:59:53 From: ALLAN LONG To: ALEXANDER SCHNEIDER (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 12468 (FARADAY CAGE) The article on van eck appeared in an old Wall Street Journal and was kinda interesting about three years ago. I would be willing to bet that anyone monitoring my typing would need the equivalent of a Cray just to correct the errors:) I would like to have the ability to both receive and send video to a PC. Cant you see some wiseguy getting a printout of his attempts to bootleg something using copyiipc from any anonymous sender? What about the feds? Anyone doubt that they are monitoring suspected drug dealers? They wouldnt even need a warrant since they are just picking up transmissions like those "cordless phone" cases a few years ago. I wonder how p.o.ed they get at LCD displays? Lifes tuff in the Fed lane. Msg#:11770 *GENERAL* 12-20-88 13:19:53 From: MICHAEL MYERS To: KEN DAVIDSON (Rcvd) Subj: SCSI INTERFACE FOR BCC180 KEN, I just finished my BCC180 kit and it fired up the first time.As I dig into the basic compilier I can see a real need for a floppy. Is there any set time for the BCC60 article(I scanned old mess. and saw ref. to it back in the spring).Keep up the good work at INK,great mag!!!!! Msg#:11793 *GENERAL* 12-21-88 07:58:15 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: MICHAEL MYERS (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 11770 (SCSI INTERFACE FOR BCC180) Boards are being made now, then they have to go be put together. The hold up will probably be the software, but I'm doing more work on that right now. I'm hoping to be able to ship something in February. Msg#:11799 *GENERAL* 12-21-88 08:50:14 From: MICHAEL MYERS To: KEN DAVIDSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 11793 (SCSI INTERFACE FOR BCC180) Thanks alot will be looking forward to it.Will it be offered through micromint and CCI? THANKS!!! Msg#:11830 *GENERAL* 12-22-88 08:27:24 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: MICHAEL MYERS (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 11799 (SCSI INTERFACE FOR BCC180) It will be strictly a Micromint product. Msg#:11771 *GENERAL* 12-20-88 14:29:43 From: JAME SMITH To: RICHARD ANDREWS (Rcvd) Subj: HARD DISK PROTECTION THANKS FOR YOUR INFORMATION I WILL TRY THEM. Msg#:11772 *GENERAL* 12-20-88 15:02:24 From: JEFF JENSEN To: KEN DAVIDSON (Rcvd) Subj: X10 PROBLEMS... Ken, I've been having a curious problem with my X10 system lately and wondered if you have seen anything like it. I have three control modules in the house; one on the fron porch light (wall switch), one on the back porch light (another wall switch), and one on a bedroom light (lamp module). I have four controllers installed, a Radio Shack/GE HomeMinder, two cheap Radio Shack controllers, and an old BSR controller. All are set to the same house code, each is on its on device code. - The problem is that intermittently, none of the controllers can operate any of the modules. There is no apparent pattern to the failure. I have shut off noisy electrical devices including the furnace fan, dimmers, and anything else I could think of. It doesn't appear to be connected to which leg of the incoming power line that the devices are on, since on installation has the lamp module and a controller in the same outlet. After a few hours of this, the devices start working again. Got any ideas? - - Jeff Msg#:11794 *GENERAL* 12-21-88 08:05:14 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: JEFF JENSEN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 11772 (X10 PROBLEMS...) If you're saying that even when a controller and a module are plugged into the same outlet pair you can't get the module to respond, then I'm really stumped. There is someone I've been corresponding with on Usenet who has the same problem with a single location (he's tried different modules) where even the RF module has problems. It still sounds like something is polluting the power line so that no signals can get through at all. Have any power line intercoms or something similar hooked up? One other factor is how old the modules are. If the lamp module is an old brown module, and the wall switches were bought at about the same time, I suggest trying some new modules. If the lamp module is a newer ivory one, forget the above. Msg#:11817 *GENERAL* 12-21-88 23:32:15 From: JOHN MUCHOW To: JEFF JENSEN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 11772 (X10 PROBLEMS...) You might want to check if you have any line noise filters in any equipment that is plugged in. The filter I installed in a project of mine completely swallowed the signal from my Radio Shack transmitter! I can't think of any reason why a noise filter would be switched in and out of the AC line, but who knows?? Perhaps the filter attenuates the signal just at the receivers threshold and some other condition (temperature?) puts it over the edge? John. Msg#:11839 *GENERAL* 12-22-88 10:29:37 From: STEVE CIARCIA To: KEN DAVIDSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 11794 (X10 PROBLEMS...) Ken, I can't put a wall switch module on my porch light for the same reason. It just won't work in that location! --Steve Msg#:11849 *GENERAL* 12-22-88 19:10:44 From: JEFF JENSEN To: KEN DAVIDSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 11794 (X10 PROBLEMS...) Ken, the controller for the same-outlet pair is an old brown one, but the module is ivory. I am still wandering through the house looking for sources of RF, but haven't found anything conclusive inside. I did remember that a neighbor two doors down is a ham operator. I haven't yet figured out how to test for that sort of RF noise, though. I will keep you informed if anything turns up. Thanks for your ideas! - - Jeff Msg#:11850 *GENERAL* 12-22-88 19:13:26 From: JEFF JENSEN To: JOHN MUCHOW (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 11817 (X10 PROBLEMS...) John, I will look into that. This is the second time that the problem occured, and the occurances seem to be separated by about two months with no problems in between. Thank you for the suggestion. - - Jeff Msg#:12817 *GENERAL* 01-14-89 04:37:04 From: EDDIE WHITE To: JEFF JENSEN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 11772 (X10 PROBLEMS...) i ran across the same problem once. one of the little chicklet buttons was sometimes sticking down. Msg#:12918 *GENERAL* 01-16-89 18:24:31 From: JEFF JENSEN To: EDDIE WHITE (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 12817 (X10 PROBLEMS...) Did the control unit indicate it was transmitting by lighting the LED? I disconnected all of my TX boxes except one and it still didn't work. - - Jeff Msg#:12958 *GENERAL* 01-18-89 01:29:22 From: EDDIE WHITE To: JEFF JENSEN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 12918 (X10 PROBLEMS...) Yes it did, only during the day time you couldn't always see 'cause of light comming in through the window. I finaly caught it one night. Msg#:11777 *GENERAL* 12-20-88 19:56:21 From: DAVID LAGERGREN To: GENERAL Subj: HARDWARE PROTECTION OF SOFTWARE. I am looking for a means of putting a hardware protection device into a specialized modem. This must be easily addressable by the serial port, and then become transparent. I have looked at the commercial products available, like Rainbow technologies, but they require the use of control lines (DTR, RTS) that we use for other purposes. I need to send a password to the modem and have it respond with a code that my application software will recognize. Any help will be appreciated. Dave Lagergren Msg#:11803 *GENERAL* 12-21-88 10:13:12 From: NEIL CHERRY To: ROBERT EUGSTER (Rcvd) Subj: THANKS! Thanks! (Original isn't it) NJC Msg#:11804 *GENERAL* 12-21-88 12:05:11 From: WALTER BROWN To: ALL Subj: HACKINTSOSH yone built the Hackintosh featured in Computer Shopper???? I would like to form a user group. Msg#:12035 *GENERAL* 12-28-88 13:11:38 From: CURT FRANKLIN To: WALTER BROWN Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 11804 (HACKINTSOSH) Walter - Did you actually build a Hackintosh? I talked to Stan Veit before COMDEX and he was disappointed in the response to that series of articles. I'd be interested in hearing about your experience putting the machine together, and I'm sure that Stan would appreciate a letter telling him about your response to the Hackintosh. Thanks, Curt Franklin Editor in chief Circuit Cellar INK Msg#:11809 *GENERAL* 12-21-88 17:16:55 From: JAME SMITH To: ALL Subj: SCSI INFROMATION I have to design a hard disk controller for IBM PC by SCSI interface for my company project. I would like to known any text book for SCSI topic or any information/application relate to SCSI. Does anyone know which SCSI controller is the best one to use. Thank so lot for your help. Msg#:11828 *GENERAL* 12-22-88 08:14:03 From: ERIC SCHUYLER To: JAME SMITH (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 11809 (SCSI INFROMATION) Jame, I have a couple of suggestions. First, you can BUY an SCSI host adapter for a PC for about $50 from Jameco (a mail-order company). I don't really know much about it, but I believe it is a Seagate unit. Second, the 27 October issue of Electronic Design magazine had an article entitled "Build a Cost-Effective SCSI Adapter for PCs" describing a design requiring only 3 chips, 2 switches, and that's all! It does use an NCR SCSI host adapter chip (53C400); I don't know how available it is. If you're interested, let me know and I'll mail you a copy of the article. Third, ADAPTEC published a book called the "SCSI Handbook" a couple of years ago. It's a very complete reference and includes a couple of host adapter circuits, ranging from complex to the "six-chip wonder". Let me know if you want to follow up on any of the above. Good luck!! Eric Schuyler Msg#:11814 *GENERAL* 12-21-88 18:03:55 From: T NGUYEN To: ALL & STEVE CIARCIA Subj: HARD DISK I have a XT clone with 30M byte hard disk at home and my kids they love to play games on my computer, and sometimes they screw up my hard disk. please give me some trickes how to protect my hard disk, which still allow my kid boot the system and play games from any floppy disk A or B, and they can not go into my hard disk. I did try to write some program to protect my hard disk but all of them fail because my kid still can boot the system from drive A and play the game which will allow them access into my hard disk after they quit the game. Does anyone known how to write a program cam make the system will not see hard disk until the right password entry, and without this password system only see drive A and B. Thanks. p.s. Dear STEVE CIARCIA I did ask this problem in CCI and order last 5 back issues therefor you don't have to answer it in CCI to save some spaces for orther topics. Thanks. Msg#:11816 *GENERAL* 12-21-88 18:38:30 From: NATHAN ENGLE To: T NGUYEN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 11814 (HARD DISK) Answer to your question: No. It probably can't be done without altering the BIOS in your XT. ATs and XTs differ in that ATs have the backed up setup RAM that stores system configuration. By changing the values in RAM you can take the hard disk out of your system. XTs have DIP switches for most setup info, but those don't even have anything to do with the hard disk. Your kids could probably defeat a RAM resident scheme just by Ctrl-Alt-Del or a power cycle. Another thing, if you put the hard disk "off limits" for your kids, it will just make them want to get into it that much more. The XT really wasn't meant as a super-secure environment. You want that get an AT and put UNIX on it. At least you'll have password protection. Msg#:11824 *GENERAL* 12-22-88 02:48:08 From: BOB PIERCE To: DOUG BUHRMAN (Rcvd) Subj: 912C I have a copy of a copy of a copy of the 912 manuals laying around somewhere. If you leave your address, I'll send you a copy of a copy of a copy of a copy. But first, if you are not sure of the switch and jumper settings, I'll leave you a message here in a day or so with the specifics. Maybe that will save some postage. BOB Msg#:11885 *GENERAL* 12-24-88 00:36:42 From: DOUG BUHRMAN To: BOB PIERCE (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 11824 (912C) Thanks Bob. I have the so called users manual that shows dip switch settings and the like. What I was looking for was the schematics. If you have them I would like to get a copy. The address is: Doug Buhrman 3935 North 17th Street Lincoln, NE 68521 Thanks, Doug Msg#:12055 *GENERAL* 12-29-88 03:45:57 From: BOB PIERCE To: DOUG BUHRMAN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 11885 (912C) OK. Should have them copied and in the mail in the next couple of days. By the way, I typed those switch settings in columns, but when I viewed them they were in lines. How did it turn out on your end, individual switch settings followed by carriage returns or only spaces? Msg#:12170 *GENERAL* 12-31-88 17:45:50 From: DOUG BUHRMAN To: BOB PIERCE (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 12055 (912C) Thanks. It is a real pain trying to follow the pc board layout! There was a flash inside the unit just before it died so I know some parts are zapped. I called Televideo and they said the manual was $50. A bit steep for my pocket book. I don't remember how it turned out here but I am sure it was lines. Doug Msg#:11825 *GENERAL* 12-22-88 02:49:08 From: BOB PIERCE To: JOE FREEMAN Subj: XTALS The check is in the mail. BOB Msg#:11826 *GENERAL* 12-22-88 03:09:53 From: BOB PIERCE To: PELLERVO KASKINEN (Rcvd) Subj: IEEE-488 Thanks for the offer, but thats not really what I was looking for. I don't have any real problems writing my own code, and I don't have any problems with simple 488 protocol. What I'm interested in is a nice plain-English tutorial on the more complex protocol. Everything I've dealt with so far has merely envolved a controller communicating with a simple talker and/or listener. When reading the info I have on 488, I can't figure out whats going on with the extended functions and other handshaking methods. And without an `extended device' to practice with, or a plain-English tutorial, it may always be vague to me. BOB Msg#:11917 *GENERAL* 12-26-88 09:25:35 From: PELLERVO KASKINEN To: BOB PIERCE (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 11826 (IEEE-488) I have checked what is still available and found that all the stuff for the NEC chip was lost either in a disk crash or the subsequent reorganizing. As it was for temporary use to start with, it was not considered important enough to recover. So the only material that exists, relates to the TI chip. As an intersting point, I collected material for the protocols from several different sources and then used it to write the manual for the system that we built. Now that you pointed towards the "tutorial" front, maybe I should take a look at the written text as well... . -- PJK Msg#:12056 *GENERAL* 12-29-88 04:02:26 From: BOB PIERCE To: PELLERVO KASKINEN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 11917 (IEEE-488) I don't think the information I desire is `chip dependent'. I want a tutorial on GPIB itself. Once I fully understand the protocols and states necessary to achieve them, the individual chip data sheets will tell me how to make the particular chip comply. However, I will gladly take anything you may have that leans toward a tutorial. P.S. Your name looks like you might be from Finland. I spent about a month in Kevo about a year ago. I was upgrading a seismic station for the U.S. Geological Survey with a couple of engineers from a unversity in Helsinki. Had lots of fun. Msg#:12157 *GENERAL* 12-31-88 07:01:39 From: PELLERVO KASKINEN To: BOB PIERCE (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 12056 (IEEE-488) You are perfectly right about me being from Finland. Have been living in the U.S. for over 10 years, but am still a Finn. Well, I did not have a chance to edit the tutorial material yet, but maybe this weekend is long enough for me to start that. The problem is that some of the material was charts from the chip makers' data books and thereby is not readily transferable to a message even with the include file capability. Do you have access to a FAX that I could use to send the pictorial part? Regardless of that, I am going to make some sort of file about my own text contribution and upload that when ready. -- PJK Msg#:11836 *GENERAL* 12-22-88 10:26:35 From: HAROLD MILLER To: ALL Subj: Z8000 Is anyone using Z8000's anymore? I HATE to see equipment go to waste, and I have 2 Zilog Z-Scan 8000 in circuit emulators sitting idle in my shop. Anybody got a use for them? I got them for a song, and don't want to "make a killing" on them, just get them out to a good home. I have one set of manuals, but no cables. Drop me a note here, or better yet on the RRBBS (503) 582-4860 (24hrs). Thanks... .Harold Miller Msg#:11840 *GENERAL* 12-22-88 11:58:56 From: T NGUYEN To: NATHAN ENGLE AND ALL Subj: HARD DISK I am verry appreciate and thanks for NATHAN ENGLE answer. I think it must have some ways to do with the hard disk parameters if we can write a program in SYS or TRS types to control these parameters then we can protect it. But I do not known which parameters to use and how to use them. So please help me if somebody known it, thanks. Msg#:11872 *GENERAL* 12-23-88 10:19:34 From: JEFF BACHIOCHI To: T NGUYEN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 11840 (HARD DISK) T, You can directly talk to the CMOS RAM by using these 2 steps: OUT to port 70H (byte = address of interest) OUT to port 71H (byte = data to be written) or IN from port 71H (byte = data presently at that address) Presently, only the first 33H addresses are used. There is much information about these addresses, too much to list here. I suggest you get a copy of IBM's Technical Reference Manual for the AT. This is the only place I have seen this info! Maybe some other USER has spotted it elsewhere! One other note of caution,bytes 10H-1AH (the area of interest for you) and 1BH-2DH (reserved by IBM) are checksumed at 2EH & 2FH (you may have seen a checksum error message which would indicate a change of at least a bit in one of these locations.) 10H diskette drive type 11H reserved 12H fixed disk type byte 13H reserved 14H equipment word lsb 15H base mem size lsb x 1024 16H base mem size msb 17H exp mem size lsb 18H exp mem size msb 19H fixed disk type c: 1AH fixed disk type d: 2EH checksum msb 2FH checksum lsb jeff Msg#:11937 *GENERAL* 12-26-88 20:23:43 From: NATHAN ENGLE To: T NGUYEN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 11840 (HARD DISK) Jeff, I though we were dealing with an XT, so AT RAM locations will not work as a solution here. What I hear T. asking for is a way of alterrin the partition info on his hard disk so his kids can't get to the files. Unfortunately, I think that it's possible that T. could never get to them any more, either, so I really don't think a programming fix is called for here. Believe me, T., your kids will be able to do as much damage to your hard disk by shaking the desk or typing violently as they were doing before. I doubt that any airtight protection can be found for your hard disk unless you get it powered down and hopefully disconnected from the host. Have you considered putting the drive in an external cabinet that you could take out of the system fairly easily? Kids are smarter than we are. They'll find a way around anything besides physical removal. If you had a hard-disk-lock program you would also have to have a hard disk-unlock program and I bet that disk would be copied (by yourself) several times for backups. I agree that kids aren't safe with hard disks, but I would extend it all the way to just being around a hard disk that is powered up. I had several problems with a 10Meg MMI half height after a visit from a curious young cousin. Kids don't understand how sensitive hard disks are, sometimes, and it really isn't fair to get down on them for damaging the things. As a patient parent, you are fully in your rights to get the disk out of the system. I would try that in the interests of long term peace in the family. Good Luck. Msg#:11841 *GENERAL* 12-22-88 12:28:12 From: JAME SMITH To: ERIC SCHUYLER (Rcvd) Subj: SCSI INFORMATION I am very happy with your answer please send whatever you have to my company address below, and I will try to get some infromation from JAMECO to see what they have, thanks so lot ERIC SCHUYLER. ITT BARTON P.O. BOX 1882 INDUSTRY, CA 91749 ATT: Jame Smith ENGINEERING DEPT. 330 Msg#:12005 *GENERAL* 12-28-88 09:43:07 From: ERIC SCHUYLER To: JAME SMITH Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 11841 (SCSI INFORMATION) Jame, I will send you whatever I can find. I made a mistake - the SCSI host adapter is sold by JDR, not JAMECO. Eric Msg#:11848 *GENERAL* 12-22-88 19:08:09 From: DAVID LAGERGREN To: ANYONE Subj: 8052AH I need help changing the serial port baudrate on the 8052ah from within a program. I need to download at 9600 baud (1200 takes to long), start a program from a terminal and have it switch to 1200 baud. Maybe I,m working too many hours, but I can't get it to work. I can set the aux serial port ok. This is a MM BCC 52 Board. We are using it for sending packetized information. If anybody knows how to make it work, I'd appreciate the help. ..............................dave Msg#:11873 *GENERAL* 12-23-88 10:50:52 From: JEFF BACHIOCHI To: DAVID LAGERGREN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 11848 (8052AH) Dave, The locations 0CAH lsb and 0CBH msb is where RCAP2 is kept. This is the reload register pair for TIMER2 the baud rate generator. Check the MCS BASIC Users Manual -003 on page 89 for the BASIC command. Check page 117 for changing this using the OPBYTE 36H in machine language. Page 174 gives 65500 as the reload value for 9600 baud using a 11.0592 Mhz xtal. Or, use the formula: RCAP2 = 65535 - 11059200 / (32 * BAUD) jeff Msg#:11852 *GENERAL* 12-22-88 20:12:20 From: BOB PIERCE To: DOUG BUHRMAN (Rcvd) Subj: 912C Here are the switch settings for the 912. Hopefully your problem can be solved by a correct settimg. As far as jumpers, I think they should all be in there original positions since they are for printer, 20ma, or non- critical options. If this doesn't help, let me know and I will send the schematics. They were originally E size (30x42) that have been reduced to B size (11x17) and copied several times. They are still quite readable and consist of 7 pages, including parts layout. =========================================================================== === Switch settings =========================================================================== === S1-Modem baud rate 1 -19200 2 -9600 3 -4800 4 -2400 5 -1200 6 -600 7 -300 8 -150 9 -75 10-110 note: only one switch down (closed) at a time. --------------------------------------------------------------------------- --- S3-Printer baud rate SAME AS S1 --------------------------------------------------------------------------- --- S2-UART/Terminal options 1 -Not Used, always up (open). 2 -Std/Alt char. set 3 -Full/Half duplex 4 -60/50 Hz refresh 5 -Send/No parity 6 -2/1 stop bits 7 -8/7 data bits 8 -Not Used 9 -Odd/Even parity 10-Steady/Blinking cursor note: first parameter is for up (closed) position. --------------------------------------------------------------------------- --- S5-UART/Terminal options (signals). 1 -P3,6 OPEN/DSR 2 -P3,8 OPEN/DCD 3 -OPEN 4 -OPEN P3,20 OPEN -OPEN -CLOSED P3,20 +12vdc -CLOSED -OPEN P3,20=P3,4 (DTR=RTS) -CLOSED -CLOSED Not Allowed 5 -NORM/HDX printer 6 -OPEN 7 -OPEN Not Allowed -OPEN -CLOSED 20ma input -CLOSED -OPEN RS232 input -CLOSED -CLOSED Not Allowed note: first parameter is for up (open) position. --------------------------------------------------------------------------- --- BOB Msg#:11855 *GENERAL* 12-22-88 23:14:00 From: PATRICK TAFOYA To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: LOCATION PENDANTS Steve, I was reading with much interest this month's ink magazine on the pendants that one can wear that can track them through a facility. I am in the process of designing a home control/environmental system and would really lile to be able to track people (the owners) around the house. I understand that you are currently working on this or know of devices that are available. Could you please inform me as to the type of devices these are, wou;ld they be feasable for a junior techie to put together, do you have circuit diagrams for these beasties? I would like to find out more about these gems and how I may procure a few of them. Please inform me at your earliest convenience. I'm sorry that byte didn't work out, but your magazine is even better as it is directly related to us, the project-oriented. I really enjoy your publication. Keep up the goor work, do you have a LIFETIME subscription plan?? thanx.. Pat Tafoya Msg#:11871 *GENERAL* 12-23-88 09:49:41 From: STEVE CIARCIA To: PATRICK TAFOYA (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 11855 (LOCATION PENDANTS) THe circuit is relatively easy. Take one of the CMOS chips used in a hand held remote control and install it as a badge on a person. Include a circuit that simulates a key press every few seconds (a different key for each person). Install an infrared receiver in each room with a little micro that differentiates the codes and you got it. I did an article in Feb '87 on an IR transmitter and receiver that, if miniaturized, could serve this purpose. Finally, I have built exactly the device you described and have thought about presenting it as a CC INK project. I haven't because it can be a fabrication nightmare to be hand built and too expensive to manufacture. --Steve Msg#:11882 *GENERAL* 12-23-88 22:55:17 From: MARK LAMPKIN To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 11871 (LOCATION PENDANTS) Steve...Have you thought of doing the same with R.F.....There are some tricks and advantages to the R.F. spectrum of the energy band...Also,for home and non-profit use,and the understanding of the F.C.C. laws,it could be done cheaply...Mark Msg#:11945 *GENERAL* 12-27-88 09:16:08 From: STEVE CIARCIA To: MARK LAMPKIN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 11882 (LOCATION PENDANTS) Unfortunately, RF goes through walls. That makes it less useful as a ROOM LOCATION identifier. Problem isn't technique, it is battery power. --Steve Msg#:12058 *GENERAL* 12-29-88 07:22:42 From: MARK LAMPKIN To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 11945 (LOCATION PENDANTS) Steve...With some simple circuity,the R.F. strength of a unique signal or identifier could be triangulated from multiple transponders...Low power is another problem....Mark Msg#:12075 *GENERAL* 12-29-88 11:08:53 From: STEVE CIARCIA To: MARK LAMPKIN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 12058 (LOCATION PENDANTS) For the present, I'll stick with IR. Who needs the FCC breathing down your neck. --Steve Msg#:12819 *GENERAL* 01-14-89 04:50:15 From: PATRICK TAFOYA To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 11871 (LOCATION PENDANTS) Steve, Thanks for your reply. I will look into the RF article in your book, as for the other parts of this, can you help me? I am not a wizzard at this as you are - really, and would like to know more. Any help would be greatly appreciated. If I can refer to some book or some past article, I will if you can direct me. Again, thankx for the info. - Pat Msg#:12910 *GENERAL* 01-16-89 15:23:53 From: STEVE CIARCIA To: PATRICK TAFOYA Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 12819 (LOCATION PENDANTS) Again, I ultimately plan to do an article on all this for a system as I described. When I know all the details, you'll know too. --Steve Msg#:11858 *GENERAL* 12-23-88 00:41:47 From: DAVID SCHULTZ To: ALL Subj: PARTS SUPPLIER? OR Does anyone know where I can purchase a Motorola MC68901 multifunction peripheral? They are not available from the usual hobby part suppliers. The only local parts distributer that would sell one to me has a $100 minimum order. Thanks for any and all help. Msg#:11866 *GENERAL* 12-23-88 08:18:42 From: LUKE CROFOOT To: ALL Subj: MICRO-CONTROLLER I'm looking for info on the MC1468705g2 and the NSC800/810 micro controllers. Any help would be appreciated on availability of technical and software sources. Thanks.... Msg#:11893 *GENERAL* 12-24-88 15:41:46 From: MATT OLSON To: LUKE CROFOOT (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 11866 (MICRO-CONTROLLER) I DONT KNOW ABOUT THE NSC800/810 , BUT INFO FOR THE MC1468705G2 CAN BE OBTAINED BY MOTOROLA IN THEIR SINGLE CHIP MICROCOMPUTER DATA BOOK. THEY ALSO HAVE A PROGRAMMING MANUAL THAT COVERS THE 6805 FAMILY. I DONT THINK THAT MOTOROLA IS CONTINUING MANUFACTURING OR SUPPORT FOR THE MC1468705G2, BECAUSE I WANTED TO USE IT LAST YEAR, AND THEY RECOMMENDED TO USE THE MC68HC05 DEVICES BECAUSE THEY WERE GOING TO DISCONTINUE THE OTHER. I THINK THAT THE HC05 IS A MORE SOPHISTICATED CHIP AND HAS MORE TO OFFER THAN THE MC1468705G2. MOTOROLA ALSO HAS LOW COST DEVELOPMENT BOARDS FOR THE 6805 AND 6811 FAMILIES THAT CAN BE USED WITH YOUR PC OR TERMINAL.THEY CAN BE REACHED FOR TECHNICAL SUPPORT AT 512-440-EVMS.THEY ALSO HAVE FREE ASSEMBLERS AVAILABLE THROUGH THEIR BULLETIN BOARD. TALK TO THEM FOR DETAILS. HOPE THAT HELPS---MATT. Msg#:11868 *GENERAL* 12-23-88 09:13:23 From: CLAYTON R. MASON To: PETER SANDERS Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 7412 (VIDEO CONTROL) A standard EGA graphics board which may work in your application is available from Colorgraphics Communication Corporation, phone # (404) 455-3921, p.o. box 80448, Atlanta, Georgia 30366. The EGA2 graphic board contains two EGAs on one board, four of these cards may be used in a single system according to the manufacturer. CGA and MDA are also supported. Msg#:11869 *GENERAL* 12-23-88 09:29:24 From: MARK PAYTON To: MARK LAMPKIN (Rcvd) Subj: RF IDENTIFICATION Mark, I saw your note in Circuit Cellar Ink regarding a tag system for tracking people within a building. I work for the Killington Ski Resort, and we've been looking at electronic time clocks as a means of tracking our employees (things besides time in time out). Could you give me a little more information regarding your system? Thanks Msg#:11881 *GENERAL* 12-23-88 22:50:55 From: MARK LAMPKIN To: MARK PAYTON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 11869 (RF IDENTIFICATION) Mark...R.F. ID systems have been around for quite some time...The original systems were in the microwave range band and had some severe problems..As concieved,the transponder was actually about the size of a grain of rice and implanted under the skin of beef cattle....Needless to say,the problems started when the cattle got wet from rain,the cow would pass under thew antenna on the way to a feeding station...he farmer would then recieve poor quality transmission from the tag and turn up the power on the antenna to increase the re-trasmitted power of the tag,(the tag recieved it's power from the transmitters signal),some of the cattle were severely burned....Our system works in the 300 to 400Khz range,pretty low frequency...The other part of the system is that we are an Frequency Modulated system...As far as I know,the only FM system of it's kind on the market...You can read and write to the tag,to use the tag as a mobile memory....Tags are off the shelf in 64 Byte,8K byte and 32K Byte....The effective throughput between the tag and the host system is 3.3k baud...Our system is being used from everything from Bar and Ball vending machine accounting at indoor golf driving ranges to the complete SPC/SQC for the build and hot test of the General Motors Saturn car transmission and engine program...Another interesting application is at the Lawrence Livermore Labs in California...They are going to install encryption/decription algorythms onboard the micro in our tag to use it as the encoder/decoder engine for "top secret" documents.....If you leave me your name and address,I'll send complete sales propaganda and manuals......Thanks..........Mark Msg#:11914 *GENERAL* 12-26-88 08:32:31 From: MARK PAYTON To: MARK LAMPKIN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 11881 (RF IDENTIFICATION) Mark, Thanks for the offer. My address is: Mark L. Payton PC Manager Killington, Ltd. Killington Road Killington, VT 05751 I haven't read your message yet, just caught the offer for info and the request for the address as it scrolled by, so if you asked anything else, expect an answer in a future note. Thanks again. Mark Msg#:11984 *GENERAL* 12-27-88 18:24:04 From: JIM NELSON To: MARK LAMPKIN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 11881 (RF IDENTIFICATION) Speaking of skirting FCC limits, have you heard about the "Spredex" spread spectrum radio control system? I ran across a reference to it in a recent Electronic News. Apparently they use the 902 MHz to 928 MHz range to broadcast as much as one watt - supposedly giving one a one thousand foot range within a building, and costing less than $10 for a mass produced xmitter/receiver pair. I don't know what licensing will cost, but it's interesting to see this technology available in something besides electronic warfare. Msg#:12059 *GENERAL* 12-29-88 07:25:35 From: MARK LAMPKIN To: JIM NELSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 11984 (RF IDENTIFICATION) Jim...I didn't say "skirt",I said legal....Many companies design systems and then get the FCC to change the rules...One of our competitors is developping an R.F. ID system in the middle of a highly illegal band....They will get the FCC to change the rules or make an exception...Mark Msg#:12106 *GENERAL* 12-30-88 02:37:48 From: JIM NELSON To: MARK LAMPKIN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 12059 (RF IDENTIFICATION) well, I wuz kidding. Have you heard anything about Spredex? Msg#:12152 *GENERAL* 12-31-88 06:12:07 From: MARK LAMPKIN To: JIM NELSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 12106 (RF IDENTIFICATION) I've heard the name,but I haven't run into them in the fields that I'm familiar with...The company I was talking about is out of Texas...This field is not a new tech field but the ways that some of the companies are approaching it is similar to the video game boom a few years back..Many of the systems that are pushed on the un-suspecting industrial world are little more than re-packaged personnel I.D.systems..not designed to work in the industrial environment...If you can work 99.9999% of the time in a lousy factory environment,you can then do the easy(?) jobs...Mark Msg#:11870 *GENERAL* 12-23-88 09:35:37 From: MARK PAYTON To: ALL Subj: ALTAIR 8800B I recently acquired an Altair 8800b with two disk drives and a number of boards, but have no software or manuals. I don't even know whether it works, although I know it was used daily until it was replaced and then just sat in the office. Can anyone offer me some advice on how to get this thing running? Thanks. Msg#:11877 *GENERAL* 12-23-88 15:41:54 From: DAVID LAGERGREN To: JEFF BACHIOCHI (Rcvd) Subj: 8052AH Jeff--- Thanks for the info on the baud rate settings. I will give it a try. I haven't researched it totally, but I assume I can switch baud rates between the console serial connector (attatched to a special Modem) and the printer serial connector (attached to a printer)? Are they one and the same? Does rcap2 change them both? I guess I need to do some more homework. Thanks for your help. ---------------Dave Msg#:11976 *GENERAL* 12-27-88 16:00:46 From: JEFF BACHIOCHI To: DAVID LAGERGREN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 11877 (8052AH) David, Concole port's timing is from TIMER2. Software serial output port (AUX) is controlled by TIMER1. RCAP2 holds the RELOAD value for TIMER2. EXTERNAL MEMORY ALLOCATION REGISTERS 124H (high byte) and 125H (low byte) are used for reloading TIMER1. Different RELOAD registers and TIMERs for each port, both assume the same XTAL frequency (11.0592 Mhz) unless user defined by you in a RESET routine. jeff Msg#:12086 *GENERAL* 12-29-88 20:27:32 From: DAVID LAGERGREN To: JEFF BACHIOCHI (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 11976 (8052AH) Jeff Thanks for the help on the *)%@ serial ports. I have discovered that I have to rom the application to automatically change the console port rate. I am checking on using a DSI RAM chip for prototyping instead of ROM for now. In the meantime I guess I can eat lunch during the 5 minutes or so it takes to transfer a program at 1200 baud. It would have been nice to transfer at 9600 and then have it fall back to 1200. --------------------Dave Msg#:11889 *GENERAL* 12-24-88 08:53:29 From: MICHAEL SKUCZAS To: JIM NELSON (Rcvd) Subj: ALTERA I have a question to ask you about those programable chips. Are there any that can function as bidirectional buffers which can have the connections switched electronically? That is , the pinout functions will stay the same but the signals can be rerouted electronically. If this is not clear enough I will send up a text prepared off line. signed Michael Skuczas Msg#:11985 *GENERAL* 12-27-88 18:27:14 From: JIM NELSON To: MICHAEL SKUCZAS (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 11889 (ALTERA) The Altera ep1400 has an 8 bit microprocessor bus transceiver interface. They can be ganged for larger busses. Most plds have a set of dedicated inputs and a set of input/output cells. On some plds the I/O cells have tri-state outputs controlled by a product term. Since some of these same plds also have a feedback path optionally connecting the I/O pad to the pld internal signal bus you've got what can be treated as a bidirectional port. On the smaller plds in which this is possible you'll have little left over here but the dedicated inputs and perhaps few I/O cells; those inputs would probably be mostly consumed by the necessary micro address and control signals. As you go up in density and cost you'll find combinations such as { 16 I/O cells & 4 dedicated inputs }, { 24 I/O cells and 14 dedicated inputs }, and { 48 I/O cells and 16 dedicated inputs }, all of which are more useful in this situation. TI makes a family of pretty flexible ( even bizarre ) bus register/transceiver chips numbered SN74xx646 through SN74xx654. Msg#:11890 *GENERAL* 12-24-88 09:56:58 From: MICHAEL WAYNE JENNINGS To: ALL USERS Subj: BACK ISSUES If anyone has any back issues ( 1 through 5 ) that they do not want please let me know. I started my subscription late and missed these issue which I wanted information from. If one desires to mail these my address is 1119 Douglas Odessa, Texas 79762 Thanks Michael W. Jennings Msg#:11949 *GENERAL* 12-27-88 09:53:21 From: STEVE CIARCIA To: MICHAEL WAYNE JENNINGS Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 11890 (BACK ISSUES) If you can wait a couple months, there is an easy solution. THe entire first year of INK (issues 1-6) will be republished in book form and be available in March. Since we are sold out of issues 1-4 this was the only solution. --Steve Msg#:11895 *GENERAL* 12-24-88 20:34:39 From: HENRY MINSKY To: ALL Subj: RADIO SHACK VOICE RECOGNITION IC Has anyone had any luck at all with using the new radio-shack 'voice recognition' chip. It is the one that claims to have speaker-indepent recognition of several commands like 'yes'no'on'off' 'turn right' 'left turn' etc. I was trying to get one working, and I got extremely lousy performance. The only words I could get it to reliably disinguish were 'left turn' and 'turn right'. I did not use their recommended audio input circuit, but it said it takes clipped audio, and I provided what looked to me like perfectly good clipped audio with an op-amp circuit. Anyway, I was totally dissapointed that I could not get it to tell 'yes' from 'no', or on from off. Does anyone know of a classier chip that can do a decent job of telling yes from no? Msg#:11950 *GENERAL* 12-27-88 09:56:39 From: STEVE CIARCIA To: HENRY MINSKY (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 11895 (RADIO SHACK VOICE RECOGNITION IC) The Sp1000 I used in Lisner had no problems with such differences. --Steve PS. The only code available for it is 6502 Msg#:12033 *GENERAL* 12-28-88 11:57:20 From: HENRY MINSKY To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 11950 (RADIO SHACK VOICE RECOGNITION IC) Could you give me a reference for the Lisner project. I guess I must have missed it.. - Henry Msg#:12072 *GENERAL* 12-29-88 10:58:34 From: STEVE CIARCIA To: HENRY MINSKY (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 12033 (RADIO SHACK VOICE RECOGNITION IC) The Lisner was Nov '84. --Steve Msg#:11900 *GENERAL* 12-25-88 03:12:51 From: DICK FAIRBANKS To: ALL Subj: TELEPHONE INFORMATION Some of you may be familiar with enhanced 911 telephone service where the emergency dispach office is presented with the number of the calling party, name, and address. Is it possible for a private individual to query the phone system asking for the number of the calling party? If so, how is it done? Dicfk Fairbanks <^_^> Msg#:12818 *GENERAL* 01-14-89 04:37:43 From: EDDIE WHITE To: DICK FAIRBANKS (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 11900 (TELEPHONE INFORMATION) in a one word answer, no. the e911 data base contains all of the information that some people pay major bucks to keep secret. the e911 center has information that the operating company operators do not have access to. another problem would be the location of the data base. across the river from me in shreveport is the local e911 center, but the data base is in new orleans - 500 some odd miles across the state. about the most you can get would be a "phone-book-on-tape" that most boc's sell. only its a mainframe type tape (ibm cms format or something). Msg#:11902 *GENERAL* 12-25-88 06:54:57 From: CRAIG DEWICK To: ALL Subj: HELLO Just a q{ick hello to everyone from me over here in Australia. {Also, have a very merry Christmas and may you all have a prosperous new{yea... It is almost 11pm on{Christmas day over here, and you hav{ only just started getting up.... Ah wel, must be going to c=7nserve the phone bill... C ya later... Craig Msg#:11907 *GENERAL* 12-25-88 17:11:39 From: KENNETH SCHARF To: ALL Subj: DIGITAL VIDEO I have found the gray scale video digitizer an interesting subject. I would like to build a similar unit, but capable of handling color tv images. This would require a color subcarier demodulator, and three banks of video ram. It wouldn't be necessary to have 3 a/d converters since three separate fields could be grabed in sequence. The readback would require 3 d/a chips. Motorola makes an rgb to ntsc converter chip to generate the composite video. My application would be to send and receive ham sstv signals. The sstv demodulator circuit is by now a standard ham circuit, radio shack sells a ti a/d converter that could be used here. The sstv transmit circuit would use a pll to generate the audio tones. Both sstv transmit and receive are at slow enough rates to allow the microprocessor to handle this directly. Any ideas on this? Msg#:11908 *GENERAL* 12-25-88 19:01:03 From: BARRY W. MCNELLY To: ALL USERS Subj: PICTURES During the holidays we all like to have those special moments saved on film. A lot of you send your film to labs through the mail and many of you may have had the occasion when your film may not have come back. Well that is because some of those mailers you use to send your pictures in to the lab, come apart in the mail. We at the post office can't return it to you unless there is a return address found and in many cases the film and corresponding mailer are separated and can't be matched so we can send it on to the lab or return it to you. I have a suggestion that may help. Before you put your film in any mailer, be sure to at least put your return address and ZIP CODE on a piece of tape (some type that can be written on) and wrap it around the film cartridge that you wish to mail. This way should your film come open in the mail and we can't match it with the correct maler at least we at the Post Office will be able to return it to you. Msg#:11921 *GENERAL* 12-26-88 16:19:20 From: MARK BALCH To: ALL Subj: 6551 SPECS WANTED Does anyone have the spec sheets for the 6551? I will send a self addressed stamped envelope along with any money to cover photo-copy charges. Thanks ahead of time, Mark Msg#:11922 *GENERAL* 12-26-88 16:22:04 From: MARK BALCH To: ALL Subj: AS0.EXE AND MOTOROLA'S VERSION I downloaded AS0.EXE and entered a straight text file of a source listing found inside a Motorola tutorial on the 6800. The compiler did not recognize *anything* in the source code. Motorola described their assembler in this tutorial and it sounds different from AS0.EXE. Does anyone know if AS0.EXE has flaws in it? And if Motorola's BBS has the "official" assembler for their processors? Thank you, Mark Msg#:11931 *GENERAL* 12-26-88 17:27:07 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: MARK BALCH (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 11922 (AS0.EXE AND MOTOROLA'S VERSION) The AS0.EXE assembler came right off the Motorola BBS, so if there is an "official" version, this is it. Did you also download the documentation file for it? It might fill in some details. Msg#:11952 *GENERAL* 12-27-88 10:09:56 From: NEIL CHERRY To: MARK BALCH (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 11922 (AS0.EXE AND MOTOROLA'S VERSION) I wouldn't call it an official version since Motorola states that you gwet it in an "as is" warr. Also that assembler only supports the general instruction set and no macroes or directives. NJC Msg#:12163 *GENERAL* 12-31-88 14:31:52 From: MARK BALCH To: KEN DAVIDSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 11931 (AS0.EXE AND MOTOROLA'S VERSION) That's what I thought. I did read the DOCs several times over and still had no luck. The book I am using is published by Motorola and is called: Basic Microprocessors and the 6800. In it they gave a detailed tutorial for their 'official' assembler. It contained commands that AS0.EXE/AS9.EXE didn't have and the sample source-listings that they gave in back of the book didn't work with the AS0/AS9 programs. I was surprised because the assemblers didn't recognize *any* of the inputted source text and I typed it word for word and space for space. Any ideas? Or do you think I should call Motorola's BBS and ask them? Thanks, Mark Msg#:12164 *GENERAL* 12-31-88 14:34:03 From: MARK BALCH To: NEIL CHERRY (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 11952 (AS0.EXE AND MOTOROLA'S VERSION) Hm. No macros or directives? I don't think I used an}iPloYX'kxDmacros because w3|{U3?a{w3{_ok I don't know what they are. Mabye the source had macros in them and I didn't know. But anyway, AS0 didn't recognize *anything*, not even the actual Menmonics and their operands! Any ideas? Thanks, Mark Msg#:12258 *GENERAL* 01-03-89 09:19:27 From: NEIL CHERRY To: MARK BALCH (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 12164 (AS0.EXE AND MOTOROLA'S VERSION) Sound like either you are entering them incorrectly or something. How about a sample of your code (like a short subroutine). I do recall there being 2 different ways to enter the 6800/6802 source code. Msg#:12264 *GENERAL* 01-03-89 09:34:19 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: MARK BALCH (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 12163 (AS0.EXE AND MOTOROLA'S VERSION) I don't have any other details about Motorola's assemblers, so you'll have to talk to them to find out what is going on. I don't know how well they support their BBS, but it's worth a shot. You'll probably get better results than trying to go in through the front lines by voice. Msg#:12511 *GENERAL* 01-07-89 15:26:12 From: MARK BALCH To: NEIL CHERRY (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 12258 (AS0.EXE AND MOTOROLA'S VERSION) 90 OPT C,CRE,S 100 NAM ADD4NR 110 ORG $0100 120 TEMP RMB 1 130 LDA A #25 140 ADD A #35 150 ADD A #$32 160 ADD A #%10001 170 STA A TEMP 180 END This is the EXACT text source code that I entered into AS0.EXE. I copied it out of Motorola's book: Basic Microprocessors and the 6800. Do you see anything wrong with EVERY line? Because the assembler didn't understand ANY of the lines, not just one or two of them. Thanks alot! Mark P.S. I already tried removing the line numbers, the label, the opt command and the END command. Msg#:12512 *GENERAL* 01-07-89 15:29:03 From: MARK BALCH To: KEN DAVIDSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 12264 (AS0.EXE AND MOTOROLA'S VERSION) Thanks. If I can't find someone here who knows what's wrong, then I'll call them in a few months. Since I have to finish my project by March 10, I have little time to start experimenting with new things. I'll just have to code it by hand. I am a beginner as far as microprocessor circuits go and I will be building a simple 8-Bit single board computer. So since I have barely started, It should take me awhile because of my lack of experience. Bye, Mark Msg#:12534 *GENERAL* 01-08-89 06:49:25 From: BILL CURLEW To: MARK BALCH (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 12163 (AS0.EXE AND MOTOROLA'S VERSION) Where are the commas between operands??? STA A,TEMP for example. Also, maybe the ASx assembler are case sensitive. Have you tried upper and lower ??. Bill Msg#:12543 *GENERAL* 01-08-89 13:32:05 From: RON LEBLANC To: MARK BALCH (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 12511 (AS0.EXE AND MOTOROLA'S VERSION) 1) Why have you not uploaded this public domain assembler to this BBS so that the rest of us can look at it? It would be much easier to determine what is wrong if you did upload it. Then the rest of us could experiment with it to find out what's wrong/right with the assembler. 2) This would be the first assembler that I have ever seen that uses line numbers???? Assembly is NOT BASIC! 3) Some assemblers are free format, meaning that the operand, op-code, and data can be anywhere on the line. Others are not. Sometimes spaces are significant, othertimes not. In any case, an exact example of what you are trying to assemble would be a big help in determining whats wrong. 4) Listings in a manual do not imply code that works. They generally are examples. (Translation - NOT necessarilly able to be assembled directly.) 5) A lot of older - non sophisticated - assemblers and compilers would find the first error and then report everything else after that as an error also. This is because the assembler or compiler had no way of resetting itself from the error - as in going to the next line and continuing to assemble from there. So the fact that the entire file reports errors is not improbable, especially if the first line contains an error. 6) Upload the assembler - if its a public domain program - and the source code you are trying to assemble and I'll look at it when I get a few minutes. Msg#:12567 *GENERAL* 01-08-89 20:12:29 From: MARK LAMPKIN To: MARK BALCH (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 12511 (AS0.EXE AND MOTOROLA'S VERSION) Mark...As a casual observer,I peeked at your message,this is not Basic that you are programming....No line #'s are needed... ....Mark Msg#:12620 *GENERAL* 01-09-89 11:32:05 From: NEIL CHERRY To: MARK BALCH (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 12511 (AS0.EXE AND MOTOROLA'S VERSION) Mark, I'll look at it today and I'll run it through the version of tha assembler I have, if I don't have that version I'll d/l it. We'll figure this one out. NJC Msg#:12829 *GENERAL* 01-14-89 13:22:51 From: MARK BALCH To: BILL CURLEW (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 12534 (AS0.EXE AND MOTOROLA'S VERSION) Hmmm, commas? I didn't see any in the printed source. I will try that . Sorry about the way it came out, for some reason, the lines all came together. But obviously, you were able to figure this out. I appreciate your help. Bye, Mark Msg#:12830 *GENERAL* 01-14-89 13:24:35 From: MARK BALCH To: RON LEBLANC (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 12543 (AS0.EXE AND MOTOROLA'S VERSION) There is no need to upload the assembler, I DOWLOADED IT FROM THIS BBS! I already tried omitting the line numbers but to no avail. One person suggested that I use commas and so I will. Bye, Mark Msg#:12831 *GENERAL* 01-14-89 13:25:14 From: MARK BALCH To: MARK LAMPKIN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 12567 (AS0.EXE AND MOTOROLA'S VERSION) Thanks. Others have told me that. I will try no line numbers AND commas in the operands. Bye, Mark Msg#:12832 *GENERAL* 01-14-89 13:25:41 From: MARK BALCH To: NEIL CHERRY (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 12620 (AS0.EXE AND MOTOROLA'S VERSION) Thanks alot! Mabye you 'll have more luck... Msg#:11923 *GENERAL* 12-26-88 16:24:22 From: MARK BALCH To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: PROTOTYPING Steve, I will start building a project that I am designing in about a month or so. Can you tell me how it is best to prototype a simple 8-bit microprocessor circuit? Should I wire-wrap, bread-board it, or solder-it? In your opinion, what works best for CircuitCellar projects like the ones you did back in 1980 and 83? Thanks alot, Mark Msg#:11947 *GENERAL* 12-27-88 09:20:46 From: STEVE CIARCIA To: MARK BALCH (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 11923 (PROTOTYPING) Most people like wirewrap. Personally, I don't. I still point-to-point solder (using PC board sockets and wirewrap wire) all my projects. That way they are neater and smaller. --Steve Msg#:12165 *GENERAL* 12-31-88 14:36:05 From: MARK BALCH To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 11947 (PROTOTYPING) Thanks. I guess I'll stay with soldering then. What do people see in wire-wrap? From what I see, it can get extremely messy with tangled wires. I remember seeing a back issue from 1983 or so when you addressed that topic and showed pictures of the backs of your boards. I just wanted your 'latest' opinion. Thanks, Mark Msg#:12261 *GENERAL* 01-03-89 09:30:45 From: NEIL CHERRY To: MARK BALCH (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 12165 (PROTOTYPING) The only advantage I see to wire wrapping is that I can put the circuit together quickly, and modify it neatly. Also most of my wire wrap deals are neat and clean. NJC Msg#:12266 *GENERAL* 01-03-89 09:41:11 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: MARK BALCH (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 12165 (PROTOTYPING) For doing small circuits with many discrete analog parts, point-to-point wiring with a soldering iron works the best. For wiring an all-digital circuit where you have mostly socketed chips, I find wire wrapping is much faster, neater, easier to do, and easier to change. True, you end up with a board that is a little fatter, but when you want to do a lot of experimenting with a circuit before casting it in copper, it works quite well. The first cut of the BCC180 was mostly wire wrapped with solder connections to the 68-pin PLCC socket. I wouldn't have done it any other way, and when I got the first prototype PC board, the board work on the first try. Wire wrapping also works better if your soldering techniques leave your finished work looking like it was done using a blow torch. Msg#:12273 *GENERAL* 01-03-89 12:15:47 From: BOB PADDOCK To: KEN DAVIDSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 12266 (PROTOTYPING) Have you ever looked at Vero (BICC Electronics) SpeedWire stuff? It has the same addvantages as wire wrapping, but with out the thickness. I can FAX you thier blurb on it if you are interested. Msg#:12278 *GENERAL* 01-03-89 15:03:11 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: BOB PADDOCK (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 12273 (PROTOTYPING) That could be useful. I'd like to see it. One of the problems with the thickness of wire wrapping is you usually can't plug a board into a backplane without taking up several slots. My father had some sockets that could be glued onto the top of a board that had the pins bent around and sticking up on the same side of the board as the components. You couldn't fit as many parts on the board, and you had to channel the wires between the sockets, but it made a nice thin board. Msg#:12291 *GENERAL* 01-03-89 22:13:13 From: HENRY MINSKY To: BOB PADDOCK (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 12273 (PROTOTYPING) I have also found that Speedwire is the way to go for prototyping. It seems like there ought to be something better, but Speedwire seems to be the best for quick prototyping. One thing that would be a good addition would be wholespeedwire sockets. I have only seen spools of individual pins, which you have to insert in the proto board yourself. Has anyone seen preefabricated speedwire dip sockets? Msg#:12310 *GENERAL* 01-04-89 07:56:57 From: BOB PADDOCK To: KEN DAVIDSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 12278 (PROTOTYPING) With the Vero boards you can get them on .6 centers. Msg#:12311 *GENERAL* 01-04-89 08:00:29 From: BOB PADDOCK To: HENRY MINSKY (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 12291 (PROTOTYPING) I know what you mean. We make our own Speedwire boards, and buy the pins from Vero. 3 cents per pin doesn't seem like to much to you have to put 1500 of them on one board. Some one in our production department found and interesting way to install them. Insted of inserteing the pins one at a time, they insert them a row at a time, then use our metal break to press them into the PC board; sure cuts down on construction time. Msg#:12503 *GENERAL* 01-07-89 14:09:38 From: RON LEBLANC To: MARK BALCH (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 11923 (PROTOTYPING) A little background. I have been designing and prototyping microprocessor based systems since early 1974. The first computer I built was an 8008 based unit. Since then I have prototyped four or five dozen micro-based systems. In short, I've been doing it a while and know whatof I speak. Everyone of those projects except three were all wire-wraped. You will find, and already have from what I can see of the other messages posted here, that there are two camps on what method to use. I use Vector perf board as a base, Vector bus strips for running power, T49 pins for mounting resistors, caps. etc., and J pins for test points and power connections. And of coarse, wire-wrap sockets for ICs. The address for Vector is: VECTOR ELECTRONIC COMPANY 12460 Gladstone Ave. P.O. Box 4336 Sylmar, CA 91342-0336 (818) 365-9661 Call them, they will send you a catalog full of tools, sockets, plug boards etc. No I'm not associated with them in any way except as a long time customer. I believe if someone makes a good product you ought to tell others about it. Why wire-wrap? I have found wire-wrapping to produce the cleanest, neatest, and most well behaved prototypes.(Less crosstalk, much cleaner power). It is fast! At least for me much faster than point to point soldering. It is very easy to modify. Connections are made at 20 or more points and therefore you don't get loose connections a la cold solder joint. It takes all of about 10 minutes to learn to do correctly. As to why commercial companies wire-wrap: 1) The connections are good for 20 + years. (Hint, the black corrosion on the exterior of the wire after a time DOES NOT have any effect. The connections are made between the pin corners and the wire, they are very gas tight and corrosion resistant.) 2) Ever try to design a really complex project and wire the prototype point-to-point with solder??? What a mess!!! Try making a significant modification to that!!! (By the way, Bell Labs has done extensive testing on this. Solder connections are only good for 8 or so years.) I know, who's going to keep a project for twenty years? That's not the point. The point is the connections are much more reliable. Bad points? As always, there are some. Extra cost is a big one. Wire-wrap sockets are not cheap. If you or anyone else would like to discuss this at lenght, give me a call at (603) 886-1876, or write to P.O. Box 1108, Nashua, New Hampshire 03061-1108. Its taking too much room here. -----------Ron - High priest and defender of wire-wrap. Msg#:12513 *GENERAL* 01-07-89 15:30:43 From: MARK BALCH To: NEIL CHERRY (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 12261 (PROTOTYPING) Tell me more please, because if it quick, I may just switch. How can it be quick though with that big mass of wire on one side of the board? And how can you modify something after the board is done because the wires get tangled when they criss-cross eachother. Thanks, Mark Msg#:12514 *GENERAL* 01-07-89 15:33:05 From: MARK BALCH To: KEN DAVIDSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 12266 (PROTOTYPING) I know that many people like it but WHY? When I start assembling and testing my board next month, I really don't want to go through several circuit boards and re-purchase tons of sockets. I'll have enough trouble debugging code to worry about the hard ware which I think I have down (in design anyway). Thanks, Mark Msg#:12515 *GENERAL* 01-07-89 15:33:48 From: MARK BALCH To: BOB PADDOCK (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 12273 (PROTOTYPING) Can you please give me their address? Vero, BICC. Thanks, Mark Msg#:12516 *GENERAL* 01-07-89 15:40:07 From: MARK BALCH To: RON LEBLANC (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 12503 (PROTOTYPING) Thanks alot for your help. You have thouroughly answered my question. WHile I can't call you because of my phone bills, I will write you a letter and at least we can keep this up through the mail. Thanks for that offer. I already have Vector's catalog and have seen some of their stuff. One thing I don't like - their boards are very expensive. I'll check their wire-wrap equipment. So do you think I should buy a cheap wire-wrap starter set and some sockets and wrap a "dummy" board to see if I like it? Thanks again, Mark Msg#:12535 *GENERAL* 01-08-89 06:56:41 From: BILL CURLEW To: MARK BALCH (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 12165 (PROTOTYPING) I think Steve only gets away with soldering because God had intended him to be a brain surgion. His boards look more like works of art than proto-ware. I on the other hand, am a big bananna when it comes to point-to-point wiring. Wire wrap has allowed me to continue dabbling without excess pain. Just for some perspective, in 1975, I decided to build an ALTAIR 8800A. Since I was a poor boy at the time, I bought the manuals for $30.00 and the WIRE WRAPPED THE WHOLE SYSTEM, INCLUDING THE FRONT PANEL ASSEMBLY. Bill Msg#:12541 *GENERAL* 01-08-89 12:02:58 From: RON LEBLANC To: MARK BALCH (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 12516 (PROTOTYPING) You should rarely take anyones word as the absolute answer to anything. Yes, by all means, experiment with wire-wrapping. There are some relatively inexpensive hand wrapping and unwrapping tools made by a company called OKI. These should not cost more than 5 to 10 dollars each. The only other thing you need are wire-wrap sockets and a set of wire-strippers. I would suggest that you get some wire strippers call T strippers. These are simple, cost less than $10 and work just fine. Forget spending any large amounts until you get the "feel" of wire-wrapping. You may or may not like it. Oh, you'll of course need some wire-wrapping wire. Get at least three 100' rolls, one red for + power voltages, one black for ground connections, and another white for signal connections. You will find color coding the connections very useful when tracing the wiring. I always wire all of the power connections first and then procede and do the signal wiring. Strip about 1" of insulation off the end of the wire. This will give you a good four to five complete turns about the pin. Use what is called a modified wraping tool if you have a choice. The modified wrap puts about one turn of insulated wire about the pin at the top of the connection. I have found this to make the best connections. Finally, do try to do another project using the point-to-point wire and solder method. You can then compare the two for yourself. I much prefer wire-wrapping, but not all people do. Experiment!!! That's what its all about isn't it? ---Ron Msg#:12548 *GENERAL* 01-08-89 16:33:09 From: MATT OLSON To: MARK BALCH (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 12513 (PROTOTYPING) I would like to add my two cents on the topic of wirewrapping. I have been wirewrapping for a few years and nothing can beat prototyping with it for speed and flexibilty. Granted, the profile will be higher, but surface area can be just as compact as a soldered board if not more. A few good techniques should be followed for a good clean board. Plan the layout carefully, as should be done with any board. Use prestripped cut lengths of different colored wires, using only the length that will reach the two connections. This can eliminate the "Rats Nest". This wire can be purchased through a number of places (Digi-Key, Specialized Products). There are also a few low cost hand cut and strip type products that work quite well, although that is more time consuming. Route wires carefully. Run wire through the middle of an IC or between them, as opposed to in between their pins. Use different colored wire to identify address bus, data bus, control lines, IO ports, etc. Use wire wrap ID labels. Write part # or reference number on them. Use a "modified" type bit for your WW gun. This can eliminate broken wires at the base of the pin. I have been using the Radio Shack prototype board # 276-188 for a number of projects. This has a ground plane on the component side and individual solder pads on the back, along with an edge connector. I usually solder the pins of individual components and two or more pins of an IC to the pads so that nothing comes loose. Sprinkle a few ground and V+ pins throughout the board using a heavier gauge wire soldered to connect them. Route component connections for these to the closest pins, and avoid daisy-chaining of IC ground and V+. Of course use ample bypass and decoupling capacitors. I did have an experience with a just wrap slit and wrap type gun, in which the wire inside the insulation was being broken, but the insulation was not. This turned out to be a total nightmare and the entire board and all the labor had to be scrapped. It may have been that the gun and bit I was using were faulty or not adjusted properly, but I have not taken that chance again. Matt Msg#:12560 *GENERAL* 01-08-89 18:42:18 From: BOB PADDOCK To: MARK BALCH (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 12515 (PROTOTYPING) BICC-Vero 40 Lindeman Dr Trumbull, CT 06611 (203) 372-0038 What your intrested in is thier "Speedwire" products, here is thier introduction from thier catalog: "Speedwrite is a breaktrough in wiring technology not just in speed, ease of use and reliability-but also in offering significant savings to customers assembling electronic circuit boards in either small quantites or productions runs. Speedwire employs the well proven and widely accepted insulation displacement technique to interconnect socketed electronic compnents on a 2.54mm grid. The system compriese Speedwire terminals mounted on a circuit board to provide component sockets on one side of the board and insulating displacement terminals on the other. Using a Speedwire pen [Simaler to an OKI 'Just-Wrap' pen, but not interchangle with one], you simply push on insulated 30AWG solid conductor wire between the tines of the Speedwire terminal. The boxed design of the tines give four reliable contacts points for every connection; connections tested by an idependent British Standard Institute Test House are shown to be 0.37mOhms initial average contact resistance and changing only by 0.01mOhms average after 50 insertions [The pins/boards are reusalbe]. The tines will accept up to two wires facilitating up to four connections per terminal, i.e. each wire to and from. The component socket end of the terminal use the well tried technology of a selectively plated beryllium copper contact clip orienteated to wipe on all four faces of an IC lead-again independent test results show extermely low contact resistance with an average of less than 4mOhms even after 100 insertions. The terminal has an integral stop feature to prevent the IC lead or discrete component passing through and interfering with the wiring side. Benefits of Speedwire conpared with conventional point-to-point wiring systems: The daisy chain principle of Speedwire is far less time consuming than the on/off principle of wire wrap [There are wire wrap metheds that alow daisy chaining;; like Oki's Just-Wrap tool.] This together with no wire stripping and less wire cutting reduces production costs [ and your time ]. Even greater savings apply when compared to discrete soldering. Further time savings are achieved when preparing wiring schedules. Simple daisy chain listings are all that is needed for Speedwire compared with the more complicated level 1 and level 2, point-to-point stringing schedules of wire wrapping. Increased card fram packing density: Speedwire offers a 0.325" (8.25mm) space saving on the wiring side [compared to wire-wrap].... An additional benefit is that in common applications of 0.6" a Speedwire interconnected board can replace a printed cicuit board on a one-to-one basis [Almost imposable whit wire-wrap because of the size.]" I've gone from point-to-point soldering, to wire-wraping, to Speedwire. Speedwire is abit more expensive than wire-wraping (figure about 3 cents per conection pin), but for me the expens is offset in time saveings. You not only have to compare the costs (point-to-point soldering is by far the cheepest) but also how much you value your time. Time is short and not recoverable (so far)....... Msg#:12587 *GENERAL* 01-09-89 08:44:39 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: MARK BALCH (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 12514 (PROTOTYPING) Well, I think I gave several reasons, but for me, wire-wrapping is faster, neater, and easier to change when I'm dealing with mostly socketed ICs. You don't have to worry about melting all the wires around a connection when things get tight. Msg#:12622 *GENERAL* 01-09-89 11:35:09 From: NEIL CHERRY To: MATT OLSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 12548 (PROTOTYPING) A freind of mine uses one of those guns it uses the standard teflon coat wire 30 guage and he says it works fine. But he said the gun cost $200. oh well. NJC Msg#:12624 *GENERAL* 01-09-89 11:40:56 From: NEIL CHERRY To: MARK BALCH (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 12513 (PROTOTYPING) I've also tried point to point but I like wire wrap for experiments it works and looks much neater when done. And it is all amater of preference but my first wire wrap board contained 14 I.C.'s and I got it right the first time. Definitly use different colors for power, ground, data, address, and control. NJC Msg#:12717 *GENERAL* 01-11-89 23:40:50 From: HENRY MINSKY To: BOB PADDOCK (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 12311 (PROTOTYPING) Egad, what kind of board do you make which has 1500 speedwire terminals in it?? Msg#:12734 *GENERAL* 01-12-89 07:20:10 From: BOB PADDOCK To: HENRY MINSKY (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 12717 (PROTOTYPING) The company that I work for has a standerd PC board that is fully populated with pins, for our prototyping work. Protoing some thing like a 68070 can easaly take up all of the board area, but not nessasaraly all of the pins. It is quiker to use the fully populated board than to take the time to insert the just the pins that you need. If I were to build some thing for my self, I probably would just insert the needed pins to keep the cost down. Msg#:12834 *GENERAL* 01-14-89 13:27:06 From: MARK BALCH To: BILL CURLEW (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 12535 (PROTOTYPING) I'll try wrapping I think. Many have expressed positive views on it. Hmmm...Steve a brain surgeon? Bye, Mark Msg#:12835 *GENERAL* 01-14-89 13:30:00 From: MARK BALCH To: RON LEBLANC (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 12541 (PROTOTYPING) Thank you for the pep talk/information. You probably got my letter by now or in a few days. I am going to order a kit from Jameco (probably) in a week or two and see how things go. I already have three spools of 50' wire (I think 50') they are red, black (power), green and yellow (signals). Oh, I also have a good stripper. Bye, Mark Msg#:12836 *GENERAL* 01-14-89 13:34:48 From: MARK BALCH To: MATT OLSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 12548 (PROTOTYPING) Whew. Thank you very much for those ideas and hints. I will fully digest that letter later and print it out on letter quality mode! Interesting ideas that you have. I am sure they will help me to make my first project easier. It looks very expenxive though. I'm gonna try using a manual wrapper for my first project because I will be giving wire wrapping a "test-run." I already have four colors of wire two for power and two for different signals. I think I'll buy a fifth color to make the signals even easier. Do those id plates work very well? If so then I'll invest in them. Bye, Mark Msg#:12837 *GENERAL* 01-14-89 13:37:37 From: MARK BALCH To: NEIL CHERRY (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 12624 (PROTOTYPING) Yes, I think I will. Here's what I'm going to use; Red and Black for power, green for data bus, yellow for the address bus, and white for misc. signals. Do you recommend buying one of those wire kits that has many pre-cut lengths in assorted colors? And do yo know of a good place to get a starter kit for wrapping? If I can't find another place, I will order from Jameco because they are very nice people and have good products (from what I have ordered from them). Thanks, Mark Msg#:12839 *GENERAL* 01-14-89 13:40:40 From: MARK BALCH To: BOB PADDOCK (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 12560 (PROTOTYPING) It sounds very impresive, but for me money is a big object. I can't go overboard especially since I am just testing wire wrapping. Mabye in a year after I have gotten comfortable with wrapping, I'll take a look at the Speedwire version. But aside from Speedwire, would you say that wrapping is the best way to prototype? In terms or ease of use and speed. Thanks alot, Mark Msg#:12840 *GENERAL* 01-14-89 13:42:30 From: MARK BALCH To: KEN DAVIDSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 12587 (PROTOTYPING) After all of the votes for wrapping, I am going to have to try it! And like it! From what I have heard it sounds GREAT, but I'll have to try it myself first. Is it really easy to modify a connection? It always looked hard because of the turns of the wire and the layers. What do your boards look like when you finish them? Thanks,, Mark Msg#:12877 *GENERAL* 01-15-89 15:33:19 From: BOB PADDOCK To: MARK BALCH Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 12839 (PROTOTYPING) Wire Wrapping is great for digital projects, but for any thing that has a lot of analog commponet it can be a cures. You have to solder some type of wrapable pin to the componet so you can use your wire wrap tool on it, so you are just as far a head to solder the wire in the first place. Don't use wire wrap wire for your power bus. Use some thing like at least 22 gage wire for a bus, then run power to your sockets using your red & black wire wrap wire from these busses. (Some thing I learned the hard way!) Msg#:12893 *GENERAL* 01-16-89 09:02:48 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: MARK BALCH Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 12840 (PROTOTYPING) As long as you try to keep it to a limit of two wraps per pin, you won't end up with countless layers to unwrap should you want to move the connection on the bottom of the pin. And as long as you cut the wires close to their proper length, you won't end up with a board that looks like a rat's nest. Don't cut the wires so short that they are like guitar strings once you're done stretching them to make the connection, but don't leave so much extra that you have to route it three times around the board to take up the slack. Even though the finished board may look like a mess of wires going everywhere, it's actually very easy to trace a wire to make sure you have a proper connection. Just use a pair of pointed tweezers and you can easily follow any wire through its entire path. Msg#:12901 *GENERAL* 01-16-89 13:03:03 From: NEIL CHERRY To: MARK BALCH Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 12837 (PROTOTYPING) I never order the pre cut stuff it gets to be to much waste. Msg#:13018 *GENERAL* 01-19-89 13:52:32 From: BILL CURLEW To: MARK BALCH Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 12834 (PROTOTYPING) Hi, On the subject of "kits" with different wire lengths. I have found that wrapping goes MUCH QUICKER if you have pre-stripped lengths available, but the commercially pre-cut stuff is too darned expensive for me. What I did was to figure out the 3-4 common sizes I use most often. Then I took some of those DIP carriers (the plastic U shaped things), and cut them to size. I take the spooled kynar wire and wrap it around the form, cut the ends, and strip the resultant wires. Usually, I make up a bunch after designing the circuit I'm going to build, and fill in as needed. Bill Msg#:11929 *GENERAL* 12-26-88 17:07:22 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: MATT OLSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 11892 (BCC52) How about trying that one again? This time, don't upload a WordStar document file. Save the file as a standard text file, then upload the result. The message you posted ended up with a "+" in place of the last character of each word and was virtually unreadable, so I deleted it. Msg#:11936 *GENERAL* 12-26-88 20:04:30 From: NATHAN ENGLE To: DAVE EWEN (Rcvd) Subj: FUD Well Dave, I have already argued for both sides here so I am not going to try to be authoritative and act like I know very much or have very much interest in what eventually happens. The one thing I hope arises from an EISA proposal is the the prevailing conditions of Fear, Uncertainty, and Doubt will be alleviated and that people will realize that AT bus type machines are going to be around and be supported for a long time. MIS directors have throw away to much equipment and too many jobs on architechures that died. In truth there are 3 or 4 big contenders as 32 bit standards, none of which is showing any signs of gaining a significant lead over the others. As a personal preferance I'd speak up for VME before any of the others because it seems to have a lot of support from third party vendors. Everything that Ed has said about the EISA not working as advertised on TV is true. It's not going to work with all cards, and it may be a lot more trouble than it's worth, but that's not why MIS people will decide to buy or not. I think they will see it a continuing support for a bus that is reasonably fast by today's standards, the AT bus, and AT class machines will continue to have a place in businesses. I'm not sure that won't happen anyway, but to the business people who don't understand the bus now, the technical issues of EISA will be its least important considerations.... Msg#:11953 *GENERAL* 12-27-88 10:17:34 From: NEIL CHERRY To: ALL Subj: CLEANING Does anybody have any suggestions on what to use to clean the solder side of a circuit board after you've done solder work on it. Thanks NJC. Msg#:11983 *GENERAL* 12-27-88 18:18:10 From: MATT OLSON To: NEIL CHERRY (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 11953 (CLEANING) NEIL, TRY CHEMTRONICS 'FLUX OFF' SPRAY THAT CAN BE PURCHASED AT MOST ELECTRONIC HOBBY SHOPS. IT CAN BE SPRAYED AND THEN USE A SMALL BRUSH TO GET AT THE TOUGH SPOTS. MATT Msg#:12007 *GENERAL* 12-28-88 10:07:27 From: NEIL CHERRY To: MATT OLSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 11983 (CLEANING) Thanks, most of the stuff I've used in the past has left some kind rez-i-doo :) on the board. I just wanted to see what other people have been using. I'll give it a try. Thanks again, NJC Msg#:11957 *GENERAL* 12-27-88 11:00:31 From: HARRY WAGNER To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: HD64180 I would appreciate some help in programming concerning the HD64180. I am using it as an in-line serial processor interface between a FANUC NUMERICAL CONTROL and an MS-DOS based AT-clone running as a file server. The '180 console port will be connected to the FANUC and must be set for 4800 baud, 7 data bits, even parity, and 1 stop bit. I also have a BCC-25 LCD-KEYBOARD card for a display and sending requests to the AT server. Appendix G in the BASIC-180 manual gives constants for patching the BASIC-180 rom for 4800 baud, but not the address for the patch. Next, I need some help in servicing the BCC-25 keyboard strobe to an interrupt routine so the '180 can capture keyboard data and send it to the display. Last, I need information to set up the 2'nd async port on the '180 to send/receive data to the AT clone. The following is code I now have running to simulate this system (using a Z8 serial I/O board in place of the ASYNC port on the '180). 50' **************** INITIALIZE ******************** 100 INTEGER I,J,K,L 150 STRING A$,B$,C$,D$ 300 J=1: K=2 400 REAL DCLR,DISP,SCON,SERIN 500 DCLR=$F800: DISP=$F801: SCON=$D400: SERIN=$D000 510 A$="": B$="": C$="": D$="" 600 B$="READY TO REQUEST" 700 '***************************** CLEAR DISPLAY - BCC-25 800 OUT DCLR,$38: OUT DCLR,$0E 900 OUT DCLR,$6: OUT DCLR,$1 1000 WAIT 2 1010 '***************************** READY FOR REQUEST - BCC-25 1100 FOR I=1 TO LEN(B$) 1200 OUT (DISP),ASC(MID$(B$,I,1)) 1220 WAIT 1 1300 NEXT I 1350 I=KEY: '********************* DUMMY KYBD READ (FROM CONSOLE) 1400 I=KEY 1410 IF I = 0 THEN GOTO 1400 1415 OUT DCLR,1: 'CLEAR DISPLAY 1416 WAIT 1 1417 OUT (DISP),I 1418 D$=CHR$(I): C$=CONCAT$(C$,D$) 1419 ' ***************************** GET PART # FROM KEYBD, DISPLAY IT 1420 I=KEY 1422 IF I = 0 THEN GOTO 1420 1423 IF I = 13 THEN GOTO 1500 1425 OUT (DISP),I 1450 D$=CHR$(I) 1460 C$=CONCAT$(C$,D$) 1470 GOTO 1420 1499 '**************************** SEND REQUEST TO DNC (AT-CLONE) 1500 FOR L=1 TO LEN(C$) 1510 I=INP(SCON) 1520 IF BAND(I,K) >< 2 THEN GOTO 1510 1530 OUT (SERIN),ASC(MID$(C$,L,1)) 1540 NEXT L 1545 WAIT 2 1550 OUT (SERIN),ASC("R") '**************** SEND AN 'R' 1555 WAIT 2 1560 OUT (SERIN),$14'*********************** SEND A CTRL-T 5000 '**************************** CLEAR SERIAL PORT (READ) - Z8 SERIAL BOARD 5100 I=INP(SERIN) 5200 '*******************************READ SERIAL CONTROL WORD 5300 I=INP(SCON) 5400 '*******************************CHECK DAV BIT 0 FOR A '1' 5500 IF BAND(I,J) >< 1 THEN GOTO 5300 5600 A$=CHR$(INP(SERIN)) ' ******** READ CHAR FROM SERIAL PORT 5700 PRINT A$;' ******************** SEND TO SCREEN (FANUC) 5750 IF ASC(A$) = $14 THEN GOTO 510 '*** LOOP TO BEGINNING IF CTRL-T I HAVE TRIED THE PROG. ON F-6 IN THE BASIC180 MANUAL - DOESN'T SEEM TO WORK Msg#:11968 *GENERAL* 12-27-88 12:53:42 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: HARRY WAGNER (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 11957 (HD64180) How about giving me a voice call? It looks like this could get much more involved than I want to get on the BBS. It is almost always faster to talk than to type, and I can see this would have limited audience appeal. You can get me at Micromint during the week from 9:00 to 4:30 at (203) 871-6170. Msg#:11973 *GENERAL* 12-27-88 15:05:44 From: HARRY WAGNER To: KEN DAVIDSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 11968 (HD64180) KEN, THANKS FOR THE QUICK REPLY - I WILL CALL YOU - TNX -H. WAGNER Msg#:11969 *GENERAL* 12-27-88 14:26:15 From: JEFF KATZ To: RON WILSON Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 8414 (IR SENSORS) Mail address: Jeffrey Katz Yale University Becton Center 15 Prospect Street New Haven, CT 06511 Msg#:11971 *GENERAL* 12-27-88 14:44:00 From: JEFF KATZ To: ALL USERS Subj: HERO JR ROBOT I am looking for the BASIC language and HJPL cartridges for the Heathkit Hero Jr robot. Also, for those interested, this robot is being sold new, wired, in the Heathkit box by C.O.M.B. ,a discount clearing house, for $200, with remote control. Msg#:11972 *GENERAL* 12-27-88 15:00:28 From: JEFF KATZ To: KEITH PAYEA Subj: ROBOTS I just saw your message from two months ago about robotic hobbyists. I am involved with the robotics group at Yale Univerity. We have several industrial robots, as well as an ARCTEC GEMINI , HERO, and HERO jr. There is an international conference on robotics held every April, sponsored by the IEEE, called the Automation and Robotics conference. Last year it was in Philadelphia. I have a few years conference procedings. I'd be willing to discuss aspects of robotics at any level with you. Also, see a message I left to ALL about new HERO jrs for sale. Msg#:11974 *GENERAL* 12-27-88 15:19:00 From: JEFF KATZ To: GARY LEAR (Rcvd) Subj: ROBOTS I am involved with the robotics group at Yale University. We are working on deterministic algorithms for sensor based motion planning in an unknown environment. I am working on a robot to test some of the theories. I would be happy to correspond with you about this topic. Msg#:11975 *GENERAL* 12-27-88 15:20:48 From: JEFF KATZ To: JASON SOLOFF Subj: TACTICLE SENSOR I am working with the robotics group at Yale University. Another graduate student has an arm with IR tactile sensing. You might try him - mail address: Eddy Cheung, Yale U. Becton Center, 15 Prospect St, New Haven, CT 06511 Msg#:11982 *GENERAL* 12-27-88 18:12:04 From: MATT OLSON To: ALL Subj: BCC52C SINGLE BOARD COMPUTER SORRY ABOUT THE LAST MESSAGE BEING GARBLED. I USED THE DOCUMENT MODE OF WORDSTAR INSTEAD OF THE NON-DOCUMENT AND THEN DIDN'T CHECK THE MESSAGE BEFORE I SAVED IT ON THE BOARD. LETS TRY AGAIN. I AM A FIRST TIME USER OF THE MICROMINT BCC52C AND THINK I NEED TO USE SOME ASSEMBLY LANGUAGE ROUTINES CALLED FROM BASIC TO ACQUIRE DATA FROM FOUR PRESSURE TRANSDUCERS. THE FOUR TRANSDUCERS HAVE TO BE READ ABOUT 15-20 TIMES PER SECOND, CALCULATIONS NEED TO BE MADE, AND THEN SOME MINOR ACTION TAKEN (UPDATING DISPLAY,ALARMS,ETC). I WOULD LIKE TO DO AS MUCH PROGRAMMING IN BASIC AS POSSIBLE, AND JUST HAVE THE DATA ACQUISITION PERFORMED BY ASSEMBLY ROUTINES. I FIGURED THAT I COULD USE THE 8052 TIMERS TO GENERATE AN INTERRUPT 15-20 TIMES A SECOND TO GATHER DATA FROM THE TRANSDUCERS(CONVERSION TIME OF THE A/D IS 200 uS) AND USE BASIC ROUTINES TO INTERRUPT ONCE PER SECOND TO DO DISPLAY UPDATES AND A FEW CALCULATIONS. THE ONLY OTHER THING THAT THE SOFTWARE NEEDS TO DO IS MONITOR A 5 KEY KEYPAD, WHICH IS USED TO PUT THE DEVICE IN OPERATE OR STANDBY, AND CHANGE A COUPLE OF PARAMETERS. WHAT I WOULD LIKE TO KNOW IS IF BASIC ALONE WOULD BE ABLE TO HANDLE THIS TASK SPEED-WISE. HOW IS A GOOD WAY TO JUDGE OR MEASURE THE SPEED OF A PROGRAM RUNNING IN BASIC? SINCE THE BCC52C AND THE 8052 ARE NEW TO ME , CAN ANYBODY OFFER ANY GOOD POINTERS,COMMENTS,TIPS TECHNIQUES,ETC. REGADING THE 8052 ITSELF AND ALSO INTERFACING ASSEMBLY LANGUAGE ROUTINES WITH THE BCC52 BASIC? I WOULD APPRECIATE IT. I HAVE ALL THE INTEL LITERATURE CONCERNING THE 8052 AND ITS BASIC, SO I KNOW THOSE WILL CLEAR UP A LOT WHEN I GET AROUND TO POURING OVER THOSE. I WILL ALSO USING THE ASSEMBLER IN THE ROM AB AS SUPPLIED BY MICROMINT. HAVE NOT MADE ANY PHONE CALLS YET, BUT DOES ANYBODY KNOW IF INTEL MAKES A CMOS VERSION OF THE 8052 BASIC CHIP? IF NOT, DOES MICROMINT SELL THEIR CMOS MASKED UNITS THAT THEY USE ON THE BCC52C? ANYBODY USING THE MC68HC(8)(7)05C(4)(8) MICROS? I'VE BEEN USING THOSE CHIPS FOR A COUPLE OF PROJECTS AND ITS BEEN WORKING OUT REAL NICE. IT HAS A LOT GOOD FEATURES. IT COULD USE ANOTHER INDEX REGISTER THOUGH. BYE FOR NOW, MATT. Msg#:12023 *GENERAL* 12-28-88 10:34:14 From: STEVE CIARCIA To: MATT OLSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 11982 (BCC52C SINGLE BOARD COMPUTER) Intel does not make a CMOS 8052 BASIC chip. Only Micromint does. That chip, the 80C52-BASIC, is the one on your BCC52C. They are also available individually from Micromint. Oneses are $32. --Steve Msg#:12085 *GENERAL* 12-29-88 20:13:10 From: MATT OLSON To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 12023 (BCC52C SINGLE BOARD COMPUTER) Thanks for the info. I'll give Micromint a call. Matt. Msg#:11992 *GENERAL* 12-27-88 23:29:56 From: ANDREAS DESSOFF To: KEN DAVIDSON (Rcvd) Subj: THIS SYSTEM AND ME Today when I logged on I had to do so as a new user. I wonder if I did something that caused the system to forget me, or whether there was some system problem that caused this? thanks for the help. . . . Andy. Msg#:12003 *GENERAL* 12-28-88 08:48:43 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: ANDREAS DESSOFF (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 11992 (THIS SYSTEM AND ME) I delete all users who haven't called in the last 90 days. Even at that the list is close to 3000 names long. Call more often than every three months and you won't be forgotten. Msg#:12043 *GENERAL* 12-28-88 19:13:06 From: ANDREAS DESSOFF To: KEN DAVIDSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 12003 (THIS SYSTEM AND ME) My last call was no more than a week ago, probably only 3 days - s expiration of the 90 days cannot have been the reason. Msg#:12061 *GENERAL* 12-29-88 08:31:18 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: ANDREAS DESSOFF (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 12043 (THIS SYSTEM AND ME) Then that is a strange one. The last time I deleted users was yesterday, after your original message, and the time before that was sometime before Christmas, so it isn't likely I messed up somewhere. If I get many more trouble reports I'll have to look into it more closely. Msg#:12142 *GENERAL* 12-31-88 00:02:24 From: ANDREAS DESSOFF To: KEN DAVIDSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 12061 (THIS SYSTEM AND ME) Another hint might be that after I had to re-establish my logon, and then logged on again the 2nd time with the new logon, I received no notification that I had messages (replies) waiting from you. Strange quirks sometimes do happen! Msg#:11993 *GENERAL* 12-27-88 23:31:45 From: ANDREAS DESSOFF To: KEN DAVIDSON (Rcvd) Subj: ADAPTEC COMPANY Ken would you have an address or phone number for Adaptec? I need some technical info about their hard disk controllers. Thanks in advance . . . . Andy. Msg#:12004 *GENERAL* 12-28-88 08:52:12 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: ANDREAS DESSOFF (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 11993 (ADAPTEC COMPANY) Adaptec, Inc. 580 Cottonwood Dr. Milpitas, CA 95035 (408) 946-8600 Msg#:12044 *GENERAL* 12-28-88 19:13:56 From: ANDREAS DESSOFF To: KEN DAVIDSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 12004 (ADAPTEC COMPANY) Thanks a lot for the address! . . . . . Andy. Msg#:12042 *GENERAL* 12-28-88 16:36:11 From: MIKE GALLAGHER To: ALL Subj: PASCAL TO C Anyone have good luck with the pas-to-c.arc stuff?? For me it starts to work, puts a "ival error" message on the screen, and departs, leaving behind a partial file that chkdsk has problems with. Any suggestions?? - Mike Gallagher Msg#:12045 *GENERAL* 12-28-88 20:32:58 From: BRUCE JOHNSON To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: SENSORS How come MicroMint doesn't offer sensors in its catalogs? I've sure this is difficult for hardware people to believe, but there are software people in the world who would love to buy your stuff to instrument their their houses, but never get around to it because they aren't willing to spend a lot of time dipping tranducers to waterproof them. A related topic is how come there's nothing like the BSR (?BSX) modules to do simple temperature sensing? You send a device code to a particular unit, and it responds with the temperature there at the moment. The fact thta such a manifestly useful device doesn't exist must mean that there's a fundamental technical wall preventing it. Right? Msg#:12063 *GENERAL* 12-29-88 08:48:27 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: BRUCE JOHNSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 12045 (SENSORS) Until recently, the X-10 system was strictly an open-loop, one-way system. The control console sent out commands to the remote modules, and there was no way for a module to send anything back to the command console. Now that we're starting to see more two-way modules, and especially the TW523 (two-way power line interface for computers), you'll start seeing more intelligent two-way communication, but it will take time. I'm afraid your temperature sensor module would have far too small an audience to be feasible right now. You'd need some standard device capable of receiving the temperature, and that doesn't exist yet. A computer would be capable of receiving it, but again the audience would be small. Good idea. Just a little ahead of its time. Msg#:12073 *GENERAL* 12-29-88 11:02:44 From: STEVE CIARCIA To: BRUCE JOHNSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 12045 (SENSORS) Another problem with using X-10 codes for what you suggest is that X-10 has a patent on it. Unless you are using their transmitters and receivers (read high cost for such an insignificant activity), they could get nasty. Ed and I have a temperature sensing module in the works that will hopefully be available as a kit. More details after we build one. --Steve Msg#:12082 *GENERAL* 12-29-88 17:16:50 From: BRUCE JOHNSON To: KEN DAVIDSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 12063 (SENSORS) Thanks...When they arrive, I'll be near the head of the line for them. Msg#:12083 *GENERAL* 12-29-88 17:18:37 From: BRUCE JOHNSON To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 12073 (SENSORS) Thanks...I look forward to your kit. Msg#:12048 *GENERAL* 12-28-88 22:12:39 From: GREGORY C. CONRAN To: EVERYONE Subj: RESUME SERVICE Looking for a job? A professional resume will surely help. Try VP Resume Service for low costs and high quality. We encourage mail orders (pay on satisfaction). (203) 232-9009, leave a message here, or write - Box 7741 W.Hartford, CT 06107 for free details, samples, information, etc. Msg#:12952 *GENERAL* 01-17-89 22:14:50 From: GREGORY C. CONRAN To: VIC FRAENCKEL (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 12951 (RESUME SERVICE) If you mean will I take your current resume, update it with any changes, and format it in any shape, manner, or typestyle, the answer is yes. In fact, it is preferable if someone gives an old resume, since it points out strengths and weaknesses that a customer may want to change or improve upon. Msg#:12057 *GENERAL* 12-29-88 07:20:35 From: MARK LAMPKIN To: MARK BALCH (Rcvd) Subj: 6850 ACIA'S UPGRADES Mark...You can easily keep the freq wirhin apprx. 4% and not have any problems..Mark Msg#:12166 *GENERAL* 12-31-88 14:37:36 From: MARK BALCH To: MARK LAMPKIN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 12057 (6850 ACIA'S UPGRADES) Thanks. Do you mean +/- 4% or +/-2%? I remember reading in INK (the project about a data acquisition board) that RS232 specifies an error margin of +/-2%. Bye, Mark Msg#:12235 *GENERAL* 01-02-89 15:54:51 From: MARK LAMPKIN To: MARK BALCH (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 12166 (6850 ACIA'S UPGRADES) It's probably +/- 2%...Give it a try...Mark Msg#:12510 *GENERAL* 01-07-89 15:22:47 From: MARK BALCH To: MARK LAMPKIN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 12235 (6850 ACIA'S UPGRADES) Thanks. When I get the specs for the 6551, I'll start experimenting with home-brew RS232 ports. Bye, Mark Msg#:12062 *GENERAL* 12-29-88 08:38:25 From: BOB PIERCE To: ALL Subj: BYTE For a good number of years now, I have waited anxiously for each months issue of BYTE to arrive. Seldom did the wrapper hit the floor before I had scanned the table of contents. The first thing on my mind was always "What's ole Steve up to this month?". It didn't matter what time of day it was or what else was going on, I sat down and read Circuit Cellar immediately. Later, my anticipation satisfied and mind filled with possibilities, I would peruse the rest of the magazine. Maybe I would skim Chaos Manor. Would Jerry be talking about his attempts at using this, that, and the other thing and how this wouldn't work until he tried that and then what happened to the other thing? Would he wind down by saying how late his article was, how little space was left, how much stuff he needed to write about? It just seems like if you substituted this months brand names for last months brand names, you get this months column. Then, there are the other sections. Product reviews, industry news, and in depth this and that. Is it my imagination or are they leaning more and more toward things I have no practical use for and/or can't afford? Has anyone else noticed that since July 88 it no longer says "The Small Systems Journal" on the front cover? Maybe in 89 it will say "The Corporate Systems Journal". I know that this little blurb is a little hard on BYTE and admit that it still contains information I can use. I guess I'm writing this because I just opened the Jan 89 issue and I felt so let down. Believe it or not, the articles under Hands On include a description of the IBM LAN standard and info on using keyed file systems to access large databases. I guess hands on now means get out the keyboard, not the protoboard. When POPULAR ELECTRONICS changed their format in 83, I dropped them. I'll do it again. Msg#:12065 *GENERAL* 12-29-88 08:58:52 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: BOB PIERCE (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 12062 (BYTE) Are you kidding? You're being incredibly nice to them. You want to see "hard on BYTE," you should have seen some of the stuff that was going on on BIX a few months ago. Their excuse for dropping "The Small Systems Journal" was that they couldn't define exactly what a "small system" was. Others pointed out that by saying "small system," they were implying that they'd have coverage of systems other than IBMs and Macs. What they really want it to say is "The IBM/Mac/Clone Journal." They're trying to go head-to-head with PC Magazine these days, and they're going to lose. Msg#:12066 *GENERAL* 12-29-88 09:57:10 From: BOB PIERCE To: KEN DAVIDSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 12065 (BYTE) Well, I may not have said it, but that's exactly what I was thinking. I have been out of the country for about six months and am a little behind on current affairs. Looks like I'm catching up! Msg#:12077 *GENERAL* 12-29-88 11:24:18 From: STEVE CIARCIA To: BOB PIERCE (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 12066 (BYTE) Everything you are missing in BYTE is sure to be found in Circuit Cellar INK. --Steve Msg#:12155 *GENERAL* 12-31-88 06:28:46 From: MARK LAMPKIN To: BOB PIERCE (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 12062 (BYTE) Bob...I'm with you...I recently moved,have 1.5 years left on my subscription and am not going to notify Byte of my address change...Another mag on software,clones and more clones(clowns?). Msg#:12067 *GENERAL* 12-29-88 10:07:25 From: BOB PIERCE To: ED PETERSON (Rcvd) Subj: SOLAR CELLS Since I didn't see anyone else give you a response, I thought I throw out a little something. Radio Shack sells some 1"x2" amorphous cells for about $4 each. Their output is about .55v @ .1a. I strung four of them together in a 4.25"x2.25" panel that velcros to the back of my 1.5v walk- man. I modified the battery compartment to allow it to charge a nicad from the panel as well as power the unit. Even without the battery, the panel easily powers the cassette on partly cloudy days. On a sunny day theres enough juice to charge and play. bob Msg#:12187 *GENERAL* 01-01-89 16:37:42 From: ED PETERSON To: BOB PIERCE (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 12067 (SOLAR CELLS) Bob, Thanks for the info, I'll check Radio Sh. out. I did get one other response about solar cells. Since you also seem to be interested in solar projects here's the name and address: Southwest Photovoltaic Systems Inc. Houston, TX Phone: (713)-320-1022 also the following: Edmund Scientific (609) 573-6250 Ed. Msg#:12068 *GENERAL* 12-29-88 10:15:21 From: BOB PIERCE To: ANYONE Subj: HOLOGRAPHICS I've noticed your messages bouncing around out there, but haven't bothered to follow them. I've played around with reflection and white light holograms on microfilm with fair to good results. I just couldn't seem to achieve excellent results and sort of gave up. Can someone take a moment and fill me in on exactly what you guys are up to? If you can give me any suggestions that show promise, I might get my gear out again and move up to a higher power laser. BOB Msg#:12069 *GENERAL* 12-29-88 10:15:57 From: MICHAEL POLAK To: JEFF KATZ Subj: HERO JR Jeff, Do you have the number or address of C.O.M.B. I might be interested in a Hero Jr. Thanks in advance for your help. Msg#:12078 *GENERAL* 12-29-88 11:28:09 From: STEVE CIARCIA To: MICHAEL POLAK (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 12069 (HERO JR) COMB is: 1405 Xenium Lane N Minneapolis, Minn 55441 800-328-2190 --Steve Msg#:12081 *GENERAL* 12-29-88 16:50:37 From: BOB PIERCE To: KENNETH NG Subj: RS 232 TO CURRENT LOOP While strolling through a local surplus shop this morning, I noticed a pile of RS232 to TTY adapters for $3.98 each. They are enclosed in a small metal box measuring 1x3x5. There are four connectors, a female DB25 for the TTY end, a male DB25 for the RS232, and two, three pin connectors for +12,-12, and GND. Inside are three TIL113 optocouplers, a 2N3904, a 2N3906, a diode, and a few resistors. The silk screening identifies them as INTEL SBC 530 TTY ADAPTERS. If they don't work, they'd be a snap to repair. Are you interested???? BOB Msg#:12095 *GENERAL* 12-29-88 22:04:37 From: JOHN COOK To: STEVE SAMPSON (Rcvd) Subj: CHEAP MODEM Steve, your modem recieved and this is comming to you at a blinding speed of 300 Baud! The shipping was about $3.00 and thats in the mail, + an old Elephant disk sticker if I still have one. More later when I have the time. Thanks, John Msg#:12117 *GENERAL* 12-30-88 09:22:49 From: STEVE SAMPSON To: JOHN COOK Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 12095 (CHEAP MODEM) Glad it arrived safely. I didn't test it so I'm glad to hear it works ok for you. Bottoms-Up, on the 1st, Steve. Msg#:12097 *GENERAL* 12-29-88 23:31:47 From: DARRYL HOLDER To: CURT FRANKLIN (Rcvd) Subj: HACKENTOSH Curt - I too built the Hackentosh featured in Computer Shopper. I was lucky enough to get a Mac Plus MB from Pre-Owned Electronics (just missed an SE MB). My system consists of the Mac MB, one Central Point 3.5" FDD, and the video board mounted in a Tenn-Tec electronics case turned on edge - it measures 10 1/2" deep, 4 3/8" wide, and 12 3/4" tall with the FDD at the top front. I have the AT-style power supply external since it will serve several other things on the bench. I used the Magnavox monitor listed, and I got a 50 MB RLL hard disc kit from Tulin per Ted Drude's article in Comp.Shop. Sept. 88. The problems I had were relatively minor. First, I was disappointed that the CRT was amber rather than the paper white as stated, after I eliminated a wire-swap in the video card (sync pulse on video signal line), I found that this monitor did too need internal modifications in order to attain the sweep frequency (resistor change in the horizontal circuit). I am using the system with an early-Mac keyboard (small footprint) and the A+ optical mouse. I have run many current popular programs and utilitues and the only hassle is the funny yellow screen as opposed to the nice color screen of my IIgs or the (nicer!) screen of the Mac II at work. I might be interested in a user group as mentioned by Walter Brown #11804. Msg#:12102 *GENERAL* 12-30-88 00:36:57 From: JAMES CHRISTOPHER To: ALL Subj: S-100 Is there anybody out there who have used or use S-100 bus based computers? I am trying to find a source (besides the local ham radio flea markets) for S-100 bus products. I am looking for a Z-80 card that is relatively inexpensive. I own an IMSAI 8080 and I am trying to get it to run. Anyone who can give me any info. concerning S-100 and/or the IMSAI would be appreciated. thanks James Msg#:12121 *GENERAL* 12-30-88 12:54:40 From: DAVID LAGERGREN To: JAMES CHRISTOPHER (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 12102 (S-100) James I may have some Z-80 based SBC's around here. If I remember, they were complete with 64K ram. I may also have a video card. I will look for them and post a message for you if I can locate them. If I have them, they are yours for the freight costs. ----------------Dave Msg#:12139 *GENERAL* 12-30-88 21:38:08 From: NATHAN ENGLE To: JAMES CHRISTOPHER (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 12102 (S-100) Ah, that's quick service! Before I even knew why james was asking me about s100 he's located the boards he needs. But, then, James, have you got an application in mind. It might be that the S100 system is much more or much less than you need. What's your application? Msg#:12296 *GENERAL* 01-03-89 23:30:55 From: JAMES CHRISTOPHER To: NATHAN ENGLE (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 12139 (S-100) Nathan, Well I like to tinker! I just ripped apart an old INFOREX multiuser data entry computer. It wasn't any use together but now i have TONS of scarp parts .. two 68000 chips , about 1 meg of memory, a 40 meg hard drive , an 8" floppy, several feet of ribbon cable and lots of misc. IC and what not. Even a streaming tape drive, and a nice powersupply. I paid seven bucks for it!. My bedroom is filled with this junk and I get yelled at a lot from my mother. My applications specificaly... well I can't really say. since my IMSAI does not work yet and I am trying to get it to work and I guess that's the challenge of it all. I need the experince with electronics so this is a good chance at that. I don't know why I got into S-100 computers I guess I saw an article in an OLD BYTE about s-100 equipment and decided to look into it. I finaly found a system I could afford. An IMSAI 8080 with an 8080 processor, and 88k of memory and a polymorphic video card. I hope I can get this thing running soon ...... I never worked with CPM hmm I want to experience the full horror of it all! Maybe soon if it will work on this thing (IMSAI) then maybe I can run a 68k system with OS-9 or concurrent dos or whatever works with it! James Msg#:12298 *GENERAL* 01-03-89 23:50:01 From: JAMES CHRISTOPHER To: DAVID LAGERGREN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 12121 (S-100) Dave, thanks! let me know the poop thanks again James p.s. Msg#:12305 *GENERAL* 01-04-89 03:28:41 From: NATHAN ENGLE To: JAMES CHRISTOPHER (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 12298 (S-100) I missed the whole s100/CPM era. I knew it was happening but I was living in a condition of poverty at the time. It ought to be a challenge. I would advise looking through a lot of old BYTE's just to make a list of everything in them (at least by article) that pertains to S100. You might want to just try to get the 68K card going right away. I seem to remember a company called Blue Streak or Blue Flame (something like that, check advertisers indexes for something like that) and they made all kinds of coprocessor boards, both for S100 and for PCs (so that those people who are lonely for CPM can run their old programs on their new PC). I've never used CPM or OS9 but from what I've heard os9 is about 1000 times more sophistocated than CPM. You seem to have the urge to find out just what CPM really is but maybe you should just read about it first before deciding to go with it. With many people just reading about horrors is enough :) Msg#:12318 *GENERAL* 01-04-89 09:13:33 From: NEIL CHERRY To: JAMES CHRISTOPHER (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 12296 (S-100) If you go over to OS9 try the PT68K computer with OS9. I just purchased 1 and it runs very nicely. The total price should come to about $1800 including OS9 a C compiler and all the manuals you'll need to learn the operating system. The board I have cost 200 and is just enough to get up with a tiny basic and monitor. If you want any more info I'll get the address and you can can Peripheral Technologies. The advetised in the last Circuit Cellar. NJC Msg#:12331 *GENERAL* 01-04-89 14:08:46 From: JOHN MEALEY III To: JAMES CHRISTOPHER (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 12296 (S-100) Hmmmm, The Whole Horror of it all. I tried that once, my shrink (Who makes more per hour than most folks I know) told me to give it up. But anyway, I shipped Jeff Jensen an old 8080 with all of the toggle switches etc. Alot of manuals too. He may be in a good enough mood to zerox some of the manuals etc. You may have better luck converting the unterminated S-100 board so that newer boards can work on it. It will get very frustrating trying to get reasonably useful software to work on the old girl, but I wish you luck. Most parts/surplus places I called when I had the s-100 laughed when I asked for boards & parts. BUT DO NOT DISPAIR, through hard work and sweat equity you'l learn. (Did I say that?) -Mealey Msg#:12332 *GENERAL* 01-04-89 14:17:53 From: DAVID LAGERGREN To: JAMES CHRISTOPHER (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 12298 (S-100) Jim The boards I have are made by TELETEK they are their SYSTEM MASTER boards. They have 64K ram, a Z-80A processor, etc. I have two of them. It appears the system proms are not the original, but i will see if I can find them around here somewhere. I may have the manuals also. If you are still interested, let me know. (Maybe TELETEK is still in business and they can help?) ----------------Dave Msg#:12422 *GENERAL* 01-05-89 22:06:51 From: JAMES CHRISTOPHER To: NATHAN ENGLE (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 12305 (S-100) Thanks. I get a magazine called supermicro(it used to be S-100 journal) I have been paging through some old BYTEs and heh I wish alot of those companies were still in business! I am going to try a place called S-100 bus. They used to seel all sorts of S-100 related products. I do not think that they sell anymore well we'll see! I have a few books on CP/M so I think I am still going to go for it! James Msg#:12423 *GENERAL* 01-05-89 22:09:21 From: JAMES CHRISTOPHER To: NEIL CHERRY (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 12318 (S-100) hmm I have read about the PT 68k computer I was interested it. But alas I am but a poor college student.. But please send me the address I do have a birthday coming up! (parents hint hint) James Msg#:12425 *GENERAL* 01-05-89 22:14:58 From: JAMES CHRISTOPHER To: JOHN MEALEY III (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 12331 (S-100) John, thanks I will not give up! I know if I do not get this one running. Due to whatever it may be. I may still hunt down a Compu-Pro machine that's realtively cheap and that works for sure. My IMSAI works but (It reads and writes to memory according to the front panel). Who knows I may reaplce the mother board with a more up to date one and keep the front panel just for looks! If by any chance you notice or come accross any S-100 info products etc (ANYTHING!!) let me know.. Any info would be of grat assistance. Computer Shopper is letting me down .... there S-100 bus classifieds are getting smaller while the IBM clone "Freeware and Software discounts" are getting bigger.. and for what??!!! Strip poker and wierd file utilities! ack! James Msg#:12426 *GENERAL* 01-05-89 22:16:51 From: JAMES CHRISTOPHER To: DAVID LAGERGREN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 12332 (S-100) Dave, I am definetly interested in them. Just let me know if you find them and get back to me whenever it's convienent thanks! James Msg#:12438 *GENERAL* 01-06-89 06:10:15 From: NATHAN ENGLE To: JAMES CHRISTOPHER (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 12423 (S-100) Ok, best of luck to you. I'm sure you'll learn more than you ever wanted to know about S-100 (no harm in that). Do you have a scope (or can you borrow or get access to one)? When I got into project building really seriously last year I went out and got one of those 'trading-post' type classified ad papers and looked under miscellaneous electronic equipment, and there I found an old Tek T932 oscilloscope in fairly good condition for only $150. If you can find a similar deal jump on it! It may seem extravagant but it will save you a lot of time and show you a lot of things that are going on in your machine. After all, if, once you've made sure you have power and everything is connected, if you've done all that and it still doesn't work, it helps to have something else you can do to see what is going on. Logic probes can be helpful, but they don't show you waveforms. Cheerio. Nate Msg#:12451 *GENERAL* 01-06-89 14:02:54 From: JOHN MEALEY III To: JAMES CHRISTOPHER (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 12425 (S-100) I have had to do a lot of soul searching as to why I want to work with computers, and what I want to do with them. The S-100 stuff will/would be a good learning experience for anyone interested in how the "Hardware works" end. For me, I am trying to get away from playing with the machines, and start using them for every day stuff. Having a balanced checkbook. It has been said that if you cannot balance your checkbook on paper, a computer will only make things worse. Not so. I've had my check book balanced for three weeks on a simple spreadsheet and I like it. It is simpler for me now to do it on the computer versus the checkbook. Could I do that with a S-100 system? Yes. But I would have a much harder time of it. I have settled into a "Use a '286 for meanial tasks and wordprocessing, and look at other small controllers for home control, weather stuff, and heating/A-C control". Notice I did not say IBM. I do not like 'em. There stone age ideas cost the computer arena about 5 to 8 years on development of newer chips and machines. Standard yes, but even that standard had to be modified for more pig style memory. Learn about computers & Electronics though the study of the S-100, but to produce things you & your family/work/business depend on, do it with stuff you can get more of if it breaks. I will keep my eye out for S-100 stuff, and if it looks reasonable & leave you a note here w/info. -Mealey Msg#:12574 *GENERAL* 01-09-89 00:54:48 From: JAMES CHRISTOPHER To: JOHN MEALEY III (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 12451 (S-100) Thanks! I'm going to use my S-100 in my future possible research in a few years, as I am majoring in Physics. Eventually I want to upgrade the S-100 system up to a 32 bit machine. I know there is something you can do now to make S-100 systems 32 bit ( they are primarily 8 and 16 bit machines(I'm sure you know this)) I want to use the S-100 as a number cruncher in the future. Something to work on math problems while I can use my clone (286) which I hope to get soon, for other things. I have foudn 386 boards and 68020 boards for pretty good prices compared to the MAC // and other 386 pc clones. James Msg#:12618 *GENERAL* 01-09-89 11:28:55 From: NEIL CHERRY To: JAMES CHRISTOPHER (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 12423 (S-100) James as soon as I remember to bring the address I'll post it, if you've got the most recent Cink mag then you'll find it in there. NJC Msg#:12638 *GENERAL* 01-09-89 18:23:11 From: KENT CEDOLA To: JAMES CHRISTOPHER (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 12574 (S-100) If you need number crunching, get a TransComputer board (4 T800, 10 mips each) for you AT. Msg#:12703 *GENERAL* 01-11-89 14:47:23 From: JAMES CHRISTOPHER To: NEIL CHERRY (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 12618 (S-100) O.k. I'll have to hunt the latest issue down I don't subscribe yet. But I will try and find the latest. There very hard to find here in the Milwaukee area. Hmm OR post it here... Msg#:12104 *GENERAL* 12-30-88 01:36:16 From: MICHAEL GRAHAM To: SYSOP (Rcvd) Subj: 8" DISK DRIVES I am trying to locate some info on a 8" half-height drive mfd by Micro Peripherals Inc. (their model 42). Do you know where they are or where I might be able to get info on how to set up jumpers? Is this company still in business? Thanks for any help. Michael. Msg#:12113 *GENERAL* 12-30-88 08:17:11 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: MICHAEL GRAHAM (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 12104 (8" DISK DRIVES) Never heard of 'em. It seems like most of the companies who used to make 8" drives are no longer around (e.g., Shugart), so I wouldn't hold my breath. Anyone else have a clue? Msg#:12105 *GENERAL* 12-30-88 02:09:15 From: BILL FULLER To: ALL Subj: VOICE REGOGNITION I AM INTERESTED IN BUILDING A SPEECH RECOGNITION SYTEM FOR USE WITH A HOME CONTROL SYSTEM. MY INITIAL DECISION IS TO USE ENOUGH HARDWARE TO REDUCE THE SOFTWARE TO A MANAGABLE LEVEL. I DON'T WANT TO SPEND A COUPLE OF MAN YEARS IN SOFTWARE DEVELOPMENT. MY PLAN IS TO USE AN ADPCM OR SIMILAR CHIP TO REDUCE THE DATA TO A MINIMUM, THEN DEVELOP SOME SORT OF SOFTWARE PATTERN MATCHING ROUTINE TO RECOGNIZE THE WORDS. I REALIZE THAT THERE WILL BE DIFFICULTIES IN DETERMINING WHERE WORDS START AND STOP AND PROBLEMS WITH NOISES THAT ARE NOT WORDS. I AM AWARE OF SOME CHIP SETS THAT WILL DO THE WHOLE JOB FOR ME. INTERSTATE VOICE PRODUCTS USE TO OFFER A 200 WORD SPEAKER DEPENDANT CHIP SET WITH AN ACCURACY OF 99 PERCENT (I'M NOT SURE IF THEY STILL OFFER THIS CHIP). MAYBE THIS WILL BE THE BEST WAY TO GO. I'M JUST BATTING AROUND DIFFERENT IDEAS RIGHT NOW BECAUSE I'M NOT SURE WHAT KIND OF HARDWARE IS AVAILABLE. COST IS SOMEWHAT OF A FACTOR, UNDER $500 WOULD BE GREAT. I WOULD APPRECIATE ANYONE WHO CAN GIVE ME SUGGESTIONS ON WHICH DIRECTION TO GO FROM HERE AND INFO ON ANY HARDWARE OR SOFTWARE THAT'S AVAILABLE. THANKS P.S. CC INK IS A GREAT MAGAZINE, KEEP UP THE GOOD WORK! Msg#:12140 *GENERAL* 12-30-88 21:49:32 From: NATHAN ENGLE To: BILL FULLER (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 12105 (VOICE REGOGNITION) How important is accurate speech recognition in your application? For instance, if you are controlling a frying pan cooking scrambled eggs you want the stove to respond to 'hotter' and 'cooler' commands very quickly and accurately or your eggs will get burned. There are 2 ways to go with speech recognition, speaker independant and speaker dependant (also called 'trained' since it works for only one voice). The first general type of SR has a lot of problems reporting correct words. Speaker dependant SR does much better, but it's a lot of work. Generally, if you've got an algorithm or situation where it's very important to get the response right the first time (with no wrong interpretations thrown in along with the correct ones), you might just be better off going with a DTMF signaling system (so you can hear tone dialing which is a lot easier) or maybe just some sort of FSK modem format. The DTMF system could be activated just with a hand held tone dialer. Anyway, what's the application? SR is interesting but not necessarily what the doctor ordered as the technology stands today. Msg#:12231 *GENERAL* 01-02-89 14:36:23 From: BOB PADDOCK To: BILL FULLER (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 12105 (VOICE REGOGNITION) Scan trough the "C"ircit section of the system with a search string of "VLSI", to find a similar thread. Msg#:12303 *GENERAL* 01-04-89 02:51:38 From: BILL FULLER To: NATHAN ENGLE (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 12140 (VOICE REGOGNITION) Nathan, My application is not for remote access. I intend to control things while in my home. For example, voice recognition for an alarm system, or to control lights etc. Maybe even to answer the phone. My application is not a serious one. My main goal is to learn more about SR and to see what capabilities can be achieved. Thanks for your reply, I'll let you know how things progress. Bill Msg#:12108 *GENERAL* 12-30-88 03:42:22 From: RICHARD WAYNE THIRSK To: ALL Subj: ARE MODEM KITS AVAILABLE? Does Micromint, Circuit Cellar or anyone else offer modems in kit form which operate at 2400 bps or faster (i.e. 9600 bps)? If so, please advise supplier's name, address, phone no. and cost. Msg#:12115 *GENERAL* 12-30-88 08:36:01 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: RICHARD WAYNE THIRSK (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 12108 (ARE MODEM KITS AVAILABLE?) Now that you can buy internal 2400-bps modems for under $100 and external ones for under $200, why would you want to build one? I'm not aware of any kits available for modems that go any faster than 300 bps. Msg#:12134 *GENERAL* 12-30-88 20:13:54 From: JOSEPH FREEMAN To: KEN DAVIDSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 12115 (ARE MODEM KITS AVAILABLE?) I am looking for modem chip sets also. I need them for a FAX project. A regular modem won't cut it, I don't think. Msg#:12149 *GENERAL* 12-31-88 02:18:00 From: RICHARD WAYNE THIRSK To: KEN DAVIDSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 12115 (ARE MODEM KITS AVAILABLE?) Yes, I agree that some 2400 bps modem prices are very low now. I received an ad with my January BYTE magazine today -- from Jade Computer offering internal 2400 bps for $98, "The Smartcard". The cheapest I've seen elsewhere in Canada was for Cdn$ 200. Is "The Smartcard" a good modem for BBS use, i.e. does it do a good job of what it claims to do? Perhaps BYTE has reviewed it? I don't suppose a kit is available for 9600 baud modems; these are sold in Canada for about Cdn $1000 - $1300. BTW, Thanks for your prompt reply! :-) Msg#:12189 *GENERAL* 01-01-89 19:10:14 From: STEVE SMITH To: RICHARD WAYNE THIRSK (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 12108 (ARE MODEM KITS AVAILABLE?) Our PC club just bought a bunch of modems from CompuCom. These were 2400 baud internal IBM-PC untis for $95. We have had excellent results. If you want one, call James Freeman at 1-800-ACT-ONIT. Please mention that you heard about them from Chesapeake PC User's Group Msg#:12309 *GENERAL* 01-04-89 06:38:51 From: PELLERVO KASKINEN To: JOSEPH FREEMAN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 12134 (ARE MODEM KITS AVAILABLE?) Everybody in the business seems to use Rockwell chips for the FAX. This means all, the Japanese included (and are there any others who make FAX machines?). -- PJK Msg#:12367 *GENERAL* 01-05-89 06:23:33 From: JACK PERGAL To: RICHARD WAYNE THIRSK Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 12108 (ARE MODEM KITS AVAILABLE?) Intel just announced a chip set that performs MNP 5 error detection and compression. This set is a rework of their chipset they are now selling. You'll probably see 2400 baud MNP5 modems for $100-$150 in 6 months to a year. Jack Msg#:12489 *GENERAL* 01-07-89 08:57:41 From: JOSEPH FREEMAN To: PELLERVO KASKINEN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 12309 (ARE MODEM KITS AVAILABLE?) Thanks for the info. Msg#:12130 *GENERAL* 12-30-88 17:37:09 From: DAVE USSELL To: ALL USERS Subj: THE WIRED HOME I have for some time enjoyed Steve's fancy ways of wiring up a home for sound. I have wired and "T" padded and "L" padded and muxed myself and family to death (almost). I have of late decided to go off on a different tack. In order to allow each station to monitor the main program I am going to quite simply transmit (at FCC approved levels for short range communications) ! This solves many minor problems for me. I can do yardwork and listen on an FM portable or listen in the garage, basement or the radio in the car while cleaning it. Finding a design for an FM transmitter has been easy. Finding a commercial product or a design for a high quality FM STEREO transmitter has been fruitless. If anyone knows where one can be had I'd really like to hear about it. Thanks. Msg#:12215 *GENERAL* 01-02-89 10:42:52 From: STEVE CIARCIA To: DAVE USSELL (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 12130 (THE WIRED HOME) Welcome to the club. Interesting, Sharper Image, DAK or one of those companies was recently selling an RF headphone set ($79?) that does what you describe. They neglect to to tell you, however, that it is not stereo. Personally, I think the IR wireless units have greater fidelity and they are stereo. Perhaps it's time to string a few more LEDs around the house. --Steve Msg#:12389 *GENERAL* 01-05-89 12:11:39 From: DAVE USSELL To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 12215 (THE WIRED HOME) Steve, thanks for your response. DAK has a unit that is designed to pipe portable CD players' output to an FM car radio. It has proven to have low range and questionable fility. I condidered using IR LEDs as you suggest but I feel that the flexibility offered by using FM broadcasting justifies this search. I don't want to restrict myself to an IR flooded area. I'd like the freedom of working in the back yard, basement (and you didn't think they had basements in California), attic or where ever. Thanks Dave Msg#:12132 *GENERAL* 12-30-88 18:46:44 From: KENT CEDOLA To: ALL Subj: 8088 BASED CPU FOR ROBOTIC PROJECT While it seems that Steve favorite is the 8031, I want to used a 8088 or 80188 for my robotic project. While the 80188 would be preferred, I can't locate a source nor know the price of it. Building an 8088 computer doesn't seems too hard, but it would use a few more chips than the 80188 (or 80C188). Anyone have any thoughts on the subject or know of a source for the 80188? Thanks Msg#:12141 *GENERAL* 12-30-88 21:58:27 From: NATHAN ENGLE To: KENT CEDOLA (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 12132 (8088 BASED CPU FOR ROBOTIC PROJECT) I couldn't tell you about the '188, but what I can reccommend is the NEC V25. The V25 is a single chip micro, object compatible with the V20 and 8088 (really more like the '188) with gobs of peripherals on chip (2 serial ports, 3 parrallel, 2 timers, 8 bit threshhold comparator, etc). You wire in a V25 (in 84 pin PLCC), add a crystal, a RAM and an EPROM with some decoding, add a MAX232 for your RS232 connections, and that's all you need. The whole lot runs off 1 +5 volt power supply and draws less than 200 milliamps of current (the V25 is a CMOS part, typical supply current at rougly 50 mils). The V25 is in production right now. I imagine the cost is somewhere in the $10 range for individual samples. We will be using a lot of them so we managed to get our cost down below $8. Msg#:12175 *GENERAL* 12-31-88 19:47:53 From: ALEXANDER SCHNEIDER To: NATHAN ENGLE (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 12141 (8088 BASED CPU FOR ROBOTIC P) Are 84 pin PLCC sockets (?) readily available? Alex Msg#:12190 *GENERAL* 01-01-89 21:00:07 From: NATHAN ENGLE To: ALEXANDER SCHNEIDER (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 12175 (8088 BASED CPU FOR ROBOTIC P) The PLCC stands for Plastic Leadless Chip Carrier. Those are the square sockets that you plug new "leadless" chips into. Leadless chips do have leads, but they're kind of folded underneath and don't stick out. I think you could probably find them if you look around. I know Jameco carries a 68 pin PLCC. They could probably at least direct you to a distributor in your area. We haven't had any problems at AT&T but I think it helps when your purchasing people start asking about "large volume discounts". That helps get their attention. Msg#:12257 *GENERAL* 01-03-89 09:14:32 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: NATHAN ENGLE (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 12190 (8088 BASED CPU FOR ROBOTIC P) Actually, "PLCC" stands for Plastic Leaded Chip Carrier and they do have leads that fold underneath. "LCC" stands for Leadless Chip Carrier and doesn't have leads. There are just gold contacts on the bottom of the ceramic chip carrier. On the OEM286, the 80286 comes in an LCC package and the POACH chips come in 84-pin PLCC packages. All are socketed on the board, so sockets are available. Msg#:12304 *GENERAL* 01-04-89 03:17:47 From: NATHAN ENGLE To: KEN DAVIDSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 12257 (8088 BASED CPU FOR ROBOTIC P) Ah my mistake. I knew the P was for plastic and that leads entered into it somehow. So now that we've got a real expert on hand, how available were the 84 pin PLCCs, Ken? Where'd you get them, and what might one expect to pay for them if ya found 'em? Msg#:12314 *GENERAL* 01-04-89 08:36:45 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: NATHAN ENGLE (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 12304 (8088 BASED CPU FOR ROBOTIC P) The OEM-286 is Jeff's project, so I didn't have to hassle with finding the sockets. Actually, it's not too difficult for us to find most parts just because we have the backing of a company and have plenty of sales contacts. I don't know how available 84-pin PLCC sockets are on the "onesy" market. Msg#:12320 *GENERAL* 01-04-89 09:21:15 From: JEFF BACHIOCHI To: NATHAN ENGLE (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 12304 (8088 BASED CPU FOR ROBOTIC P) Nathan, Digi-key (1-800-344-4539) has PLCC sockets in their catalog. Part # C7282 for the 84 pin PLCC (Texas Instruments). Expect to pay about $13.00 each for 'em. They also come in 44 and 64 pin packs! jeff Msg#:12160 *GENERAL* 12-31-88 10:53:54 From: PHILIPPE WETTERWALD To: ALL Subj: MEMORY CHIPS COMPATIBILITY? Does any one knows if I can use MN41464A-08 instead of NEC UPD41464C10 or Mitsubishi M5M4464P-10 or Fujitsu MB1464-10? Thanks all and Happy New Year! Msg#:12173 *GENERAL* 12-31-88 19:39:05 From: NATHAN ENGLE To: PHILIPPE WETTERWALD (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 12160 (MEMORY CHIPS COMPATIBILITY?) Phillipe, According to the cross ref in Jameco's catalog those guys are all compatible. I wouldn't order 1000 or anything without trying some samples, but they should all act pretty similar as far as operation is concerned. Msg#:12185 *GENERAL* 01-01-89 12:54:11 From: PHILIPPE WETTERWALD To: NATHAN ENGLE (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 12173 (MEMORY CHIPS COMPATIBILITY?) Thank you very much for your help, again Happy New Year. Msg#:12167 *GENERAL* 12-31-88 14:42:01 From: MARK BALCH To: ALL Subj: DISK DRIVE DATA WANTED I salvaged two disk drives from my old Franklin Ace 1200 computer and I need data sheets for them. They are Apple compatible 5.25" full-height single-sided drives, but they have one Franklin-brand circuit board mounted inside each of their frames. These are their markings: . Made by : Micro Peripherals Inc. Model : 51SI Serial# : 969180 (For Drive #2) Mfg.Date: December 1983 . If anyone has the specs for these drives, or knows where to get them, please leave me a reply. I don't know if it is possible, but I would like to try interfacing them with a modern-type floppy-controller chip for future use in a 6809 system. . Thanks, Mark Msg#:12263 *GENERAL* 01-03-89 09:33:12 From: NEIL CHERRY To: MARK BALCH (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 12167 (DISK DRIVE DATA WANTED) Not to throw a wrench in the works but I think you'll find that you will be better off checking the computer shopper for used drives. The apple franklin drives were 35 track drives and only single density or weird apple density. NJC Msg#:12517 *GENERAL* 01-07-89 15:41:41 From: MARK BALCH To: NEIL CHERRY (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 12263 (DISK DRIVE DATA WANTED) Thanks for the sad news. I was thinking that I really couldn't use them for much because from what little I knew about Apple DOS, I knew that it was completelydifferent from IBM or "standard" drive formats. Bye, Mark Msg#:12168 *GENERAL* 12-31-88 14:43:10 From: MARK BALCH To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: PARTS INFORMATION Steve, . Alas, BYTE is not the same since you have left. While the editors are doing their best, ASK BYTE is a mess when it comes to electronics problems. They are doing well with software issues, but general hacker questions are a "no go." . The January issue had the following question: . "Do you have any suggestions for someone who wants to get started designing circuits or putting together a portable IBM PC from parts? Where could I order parts that are found in a Toshiba or Zenith laptop (e.g., a screen, a power supply, a 3.5" hard disk drive , and a 3.5" floppy disk drive)?" . While I am not planning to assemble my own laptop in the near future, it is interesting to think about. I would like to know the answer to this question also (where these parts are available - the LCD screens seem impossible to find). The answer that was given is not exactly adequate. They referred the person to Computer Shopper magazine and "many computer flea markets" without naming any specific mail order house. . I remember that you had an LCD display for your CCAT project last year, but you did not name the source. Can you please answer the above question for me and anyone else who is interested? . Thanks alot! Bye, Mark . P.S. I am glad that INK is now being delivered to my door, this way I won't miss much! (T'was a good idea, that there magazine!) Msg#:12211 *GENERAL* 01-02-89 10:25:37 From: STEVE CIARCIA To: MARK BALCH (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 12168 (PARTS INFORMATION) Realize that I had a paid staff of 12 people involved in answering my mail including ASK BYTE. But I also answered EVERY letter even while claiming that only those that were published would be answered. I believe BYTE has now given the sole responsibility of ASK BYTE to editor Rick Grehan. He is admittedly a software type and therfore you might see fewer hardware questions or questions that take real research (time) in the future. Regarding your questions, perhaps Jeff Bachiochi can remember where the LCD display we used for that project came from and Ken has been buying 3.5" drives lately. Computer Shopper was recommended, BTW, because it is one of the few magazines that Fred Langa doesn't apparently feel he is in competetion with these days. --Steve Msg#:12268 *GENERAL* 01-03-89 09:57:14 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: MARK BALCH (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 12168 (PARTS INFORMATION) Just to expand a bit on Steve's answer, BYTE is apparently using all their technical editors to answer Ask BYTE letters in the magazine, with the initials of who's answering following the answer. A quick look at January's issue does show that Rick is answering most of them, though. Another thing I've been paying attention to in the past year or so is the topics of the letters selected. Steve had been selecting a good cross section of all computers and topics, with a slight lean to IBM PCs to appease the editors. A look at the January selection shows them to be all IBM PC with one or two Macs sprinkled in. I'm still waiting for the "IBM PC/Mac/Clone Journal" subheading to appear on the cover one of these days. I think the problem you'll have with finding parts used in a Zenith laptop is that most of those parts are custom designed and manufactured for a particular computer. Zenith isn't going to turn around and sell those parts to people who want to put together kits. You can often find bits and pieces on the surplus market (an LCD display here, a 3.5" drive there), but when it's all said and done, you won't have a Zenith laptop, but a much larger and more cumbersome box. Another factor is that some of what is used in the laptops is fairly new technology, available only to large companies making large quantities. You're just not going to find the parts listed with surplus houses. Msg#:12276 *GENERAL* 01-03-89 13:00:44 From: JEFF BACHIOCHI To: MARK BALCH (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 12168 (PARTS INFORMATION) Mark, The LCD used was from AXIONIX. Sorry I don't have the address od telephone # handy, check the BYTE issue for that info. Another possibility, Electroluminescent and AC Plasma displays from DECo (Digital Electronics Corp.) 415-786-0520. If you scan the display board ADs in numerous PC mags you will see some that optionally drive LCDs. jeff Msg#:12507 *GENERAL* 01-07-89 15:13:47 From: MARK BALCH To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 12211 (PARTS INFORMATION) Thanks, I'll ask Jeff. So do you miss having all of those 'slaves'? Bye, Mark Msg#:12508 *GENERAL* 01-07-89 15:18:30 From: MARK BALCH To: KEN DAVIDSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 12268 (PARTS INFORMATION) Well it just seems odd that something so common as a 16 x 80 LCD should be so hard to find. I have looked through dozens of catalogs and twice as many computer magazine ads. The largest display I have ever found was sold at digi-key ans it was an LCD with 2 lines of 40 characters! What ever happened to people home-brewing their own laptops or micro computers? Or did they ever do this. Ahh, yes I have a question: Lets assume that there is a good engineer in Zenith's computer department and he has a new idea for a laptop. How in the hell does he get custom parts for his specific computer that might not even sell? Even Zenith can't order 10,000 units of something when they are only doing R&D... Bye, Mark Msg#:12509 *GENERAL* 01-07-89 15:21:35 From: MARK BALCH To: JEFF BACHIOCHI (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 12276 (PARTS INFORMATION) Thanks for the company name. Which issue of byte could I check in? Since you now have a column in INK, can you work into one issue the topics of hard-to-find-parts? Mabye someday when I get more advanced in the world of digital electronics, I will want to build a laptop with a decent small keyboard, a 16 x 80 LCD and a 3.5" hard drive. Bye, Mark P.S. I forgot, I don't know how good they are, but Jameco sells 3.5" hard drives. They have two sizes: 20Meg and 30Meg. Msg#:12604 *GENERAL* 01-09-89 09:32:40 From: JEFF BACHIOCHI To: MARK BALCH (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 12509 (PARTS INFORMATION) Mark, I found Axonix's tel # 801-582-9271. Steve wrote about this project in the Sept-Oct 87 issues of BYTE. jeff Msg#:12607 *GENERAL* 01-09-89 10:02:53 From: STEVE CIARCIA To: MARK BALCH (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 12507 (PARTS INFORMATION) I'm sure they wouldn't like to be called slaves and they are still around all contributing to CC INK. --Steve Msg#:12846 *GENERAL* 01-14-89 13:49:18 From: MARK BALCH To: JEFF BACHIOCHI (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 12604 (PARTS INFORMATION) Thanks for the phone number. I take it that they are the ones that supply the big LCDs. But do you have an address, I would rather spend 25 cents than a long distance call (Yes, I am the "mail" type). Bye, Mark Msg#:12847 *GENERAL* 01-14-89 13:50:13 From: MARK BALCH To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 12607 (PARTS INFORMATION) Of course not. I didn't mean it that way. Do you still get much mail, now that you are no longer in BYTE? Bye, Mark Msg#:12904 *GENERAL* 01-16-89 14:41:13 From: STEVE CIARCIA To: MARK BALCH Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 12847 (PARTS INFORMATION) We still get loads of mail and the staff is just as large as it ever was. --Steve Msg#:12981 *GENERAL* 01-18-89 12:19:02 From: JEFF BACHIOCHI To: MARK BALCH Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 12846 (PARTS INFORMATION) Mark, 25 cents it is! Axonix Corp. 2257 South 1100 East Suite 2C Salt Lake CIty Utah 84106 jeff Msg#:12172 *GENERAL* 12-31-88 19:34:07 From: NATHAN ENGLE To: KENT CEDOLA (Rcvd) Subj: V25 SPECS I'm sure you can get V25 specs from your local or regional NEC office. They do a ~100 page booklet that covers electrical specifications and hardware special function registers, and they have a full user's guide that covers the full instruction set. As an added incentive, I'll tell you that I am currently writing software for this CPU using Microsoft C V5.1. Practically everything can be done in C, including interrupt handlers, although we have gotten into some assembly language there. The V25 has 8 banks of registers that can be context switched in order to save having to push everything on the stack. This gives you an interrupt lantency of about 60 microseconds before you are executing your handler. All in all, I am very impressed with the 25. I want to get some myself for projects at home. Msg#:12176 *GENERAL* 12-31-88 19:58:04 From: ALEXANDER SCHNEIDER To: NATHAN ENGLE (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 12172 (V25 SPECS) When writing a control program in C, is the segmented nature of the address space visable and forced upon you? Do you have to manually push such and such onto the stack, or can you write straight through like with a flat address space processor? Alex Msg#:12177 *GENERAL* 12-31-88 22:39:35 From: KENT CEDOLA To: NATHAN ENGLE (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 12172 (V25 SPECS) I use MS C 5.1 myself and while I know 8086 assembler, I prefer C for most projects. The 8086 segmentation can be as visible or invisible as the programmer wishes. For example, in large model mode you can treat everything as flat space (given no variable is larger than 64k). But this does slow down thinkgs abit. MS C 5.1 is best when used in mixed model mode. While there is a lot less segmentation to worry about in C than assembler, you really can't totally forget about it. Msg#:12191 *GENERAL* 01-01-89 21:05:55 From: NATHAN ENGLE To: KENT CEDOLA (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 12177 (V25 SPECS) Good answer, Kent. We are using the small model for our work, so the address space is exactly linear. There is a little bit of wrangling that you have to go through to get your relocate utility to put the code and data segments in the right place, but you can ignore segments after that. The segmented architecture is always there, and it's good to keep it in the back of your mind because it WILL come back and bite you sometime, but I find that I am THINKING in C rather than assembler (which is the goal). Msg#:12221 *GENERAL* 01-02-89 12:03:04 From: ALEXANDER SCHNEIDER To: NATHAN ENGLE (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 12191 (V25 SPECS) And people wonder why Motorola's CPU's are used at all. Alex Msg#:12239 *GENERAL* 01-02-89 19:49:34 From: KENT CEDOLA To: NATHAN ENGLE (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 12191 (V25 SPECS) Since MS C will generate assembler source code on demand that can be used by the MS assembler, I rather write my assembler code in C first then modify the assembler from the C compile (neat). This is the reason that I want a 8088 based microcontroller (v25 or whatever) for my project. Msg#:12245 *GENERAL* 01-03-89 00:30:35 From: NATHAN ENGLE To: ALEXANDER SCHNEIDER (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 12221 (V25 SPECS) I think the reason people use Motorola CPUs is that they are less expensive. That's a valid reason, and it's still very true. I have used MS C to generate assembly code so that I could edit the output, but I find that with the V25 the main things I need to accomplish in assembly are things that use special instructions on the V25. A C compiler can't be expected to generate these "off the wall" instructions (although you can just call a function that executes the instruction and returns). Once I get into C I'm pretty loathe to drop back to assembly unless speed considerations force me. Msg#:12265 *GENERAL* 01-03-89 09:40:32 From: NEIL CHERRY To: ALEXANDER SCHNEIDER (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 12176 (V25 SPECS) Moto Moto Moto ... NJC Msg#:12174 *GENERAL* 12-31-88 19:44:58 From: NATHAN ENGLE To: MARK BALCH (Rcvd) Subj: WHY PEOPLE WIREWRAP From my own experience, I got into wirewrapping because I was basically afraid of soldering irons. I have now overcome my fears, having discovered that I can actually touch my computer with a soldering iron without destroying it. Wirewrap just seemed "safe" since I wasn't actually soldering anything down. For rapid prototype work, I like breadboards a lot, but once you get a circut you might as well solder it in. If you think some resistor values will be changing or something you could just socket them or use a pot. You end up saving time. Msg#:12178 *GENERAL* 12-31-88 23:06:10 From: STEVE SAMPSON To: NATHAN ENGLE (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 12174 (WHY PEOPLE WIREWRAP) Just to let you know how industry uses wire-wrap; the radar I operate/maintain has the computer backplane totally wire-wrapped by computer. When it gets warped we pull it out and the factory sends us a new one (nice and straight). The reason they get warped is because the circuit cards have a center ratchet screw which pulls in the center. The backplane is made of alluminum (sp?). Here's a robotics project! How about an article on how to build your own wire-wrappingg bed? I can imagine if someone had to solder all those (5000+) connections. Msg#:12192 *GENERAL* 01-01-89 21:13:17 From: NATHAN ENGLE To: STEVE SAMPSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 12178 (WHY PEOPLE WIREWRAP) Ugh! You have pretty awful nightmares, Steve. Actually soldering 5000 connections is a snap if you are willing to set up a wave soldering machine. I'm really surprized to hear that companies are selling wire-wrap boards as final products. In the long run, soldered connections are sure to be more reliable. The wire-wrap wire I use has a tendancy to turn black after a few months, and I'm sure that crud isn't helping the electricity to flow any better. Also, what happens when a wire breaks loose, etc. Unless the application only calls for one replacement every 5 years, I would reccommend generating a PWB and doing the thing up right. It will probably end up costing less in the long run. Msg#:12195 *GENERAL* 01-01-89 23:57:33 From: STEVE SAMPSON To: NATHAN ENGLE (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 12192 (WHY PEOPLE WIREWRAP) The engineers say that soldered connections couldn't meet the vibration and hard landings given the radar (airborne), while wire wrap could. But heck, the thing was designed in the 60's, pre-wave-solder days (smile). There's probably alot of technology gone by since it was designed. Today a backplane with that many connections probably isn't needed, given how everything is modular. Msg#:12242 *GENERAL* 01-02-89 21:20:22 From: MERVIN FRANK To: STEVE SAMPSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 12195 (WHY PEOPLE WIREWRAP) Wire-wrap was developed by Bell Labs. One entire issue of Bell System Tech Jour was devoted to the subject a few (10-15 ??) years ago. Some of us found the idea that wire-wrap was really better than god solid cold (ha) soldier joints. Msg#:12244 *GENERAL* 01-03-89 00:21:15 From: NATHAN ENGLE To: STEVE SAMPSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 12195 (WHY PEOPLE WIREWRAP) Interesting... just as a venture I would say that the radar board sounds like something the defense department would go for (which is part of the reason we pay so much for defense). I find it difficult to believe that handmade wirewrap board would be as reliable as machine tooled wave solder in the long run. I work at Bell Labs in Indianapolis, and we have found that plain old "through hole" PWBs with plated holes are very reliable under stress conditions. Surface mount wouldn't be any good since the larger flat-plak chips as well as SM transistors can be shaken loose or broken free just by flexing a board. The product I am working on right now is a security panel, and though the security industry is very big on reliability, no one has suggested that we build a wire-wrap circut instead of a soldered one. I'm sure that money is a big part of it, but if reliability was really that much greater from wirewrap we would at least offer it as an option. Msg#:12506 *GENERAL* 01-07-89 15:08:59 From: MARK BALCH To: NATHAN ENGLE (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 12174 (WHY PEOPLE WIREWRAP) Thanks, I guess I'll stay with soldering for my new projects. I took steve's advice and bought wire wrap wire for the soldering. Since it is so thin (as opposed to the 24 - 22 AGW stuff I used before) I can easily fit all of those bus lines onto a board. I soldering iron can get a little ungainly at times because it is so hot, but if you are careful (as you found out) you won't have any trouble. Bye, Mark Msg#:12611 *GENERAL* 01-09-89 10:35:29 From: STEVE CIARCIA To: MARK BALCH (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 12506 (WHY PEOPLE WIREWRAP) I use a 15 watt temperature regulated iron. Too hot an iron will glop too much solder on things. Be careful. --Steve Msg#:12848 *GENERAL* 01-14-89 13:52:29 From: MARK BALCH To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 12611 (WHY PEOPLE WIREWRAP) I also have a 15 watt iron. I use very good solder, forgot the brand but it comes in a black plastic see-thru tube. I think I'll have to abandon soldering though. The ease and reliability of wire wrapping seems too good not to switch. But the iron will always be there for misc. work! I am afraid of "cold" solder joints and shorts because of the flux (is that possible). Bye, Mark ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Msg#:12183 *GENERAL* 01/01/89 10:44:54 From: DALE REID To: ALL Subj: STORE DETECTORS I'm not about to circumvent the various detectors that stores use to prevent their products from developing "feet" and walking past the cash registers, but have some question on the technology that is used to make those things work. There would seem to be two kinds available... the first is a little strip that B. Dalton or Software etc. has pasted on the back of every piece of stuff they have, and has to be "deactivedd" in some way. I assum that this is magnetic, and it always bothers me to have them do that to anything I have purchased that has a disk in it. This seems to be like the little strips that the libraries put in the books to make sure you have checked them out. But if it is a magnetic strip, how do the little blades of the tunnel you have to walk through pick up the strip? Why doesn't my maganetic screwdriver set off every one I walk though? It seems to be a giaant hall effect detector, but can they be tuned to the strip somehow? The other type is one that I recently had the pleasure oftaking apart and examining, and is a tag a few inches long, has what appears to be a flat bronze strip in it, with an ordinary diode across it,and makes me think that it will change an RF field when passed through, something like a magnetometer. Any one know in general how these things work? As I say, it is like asking how a police radar works, someone will always be wondering why we want to know. I detest the "need to know" attitude of the military, and have always had a general curiosity of just how it works, much to my poor old mother's concern when I started tearing things apart. I'm sure about 95% of the users of this board have a similar curiosity. Thanks Dale Msg#:12196 *GENERAL* 01/02/89 00:06:18 From: STEVE SAMPSON To: DALE REID (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 12183 (STORE DETECTORS) > I detest the "need to know" attitude of the military So do many foreign governments. That's the way it should be. The military talking is taxpayers dollars going down the drain. I don't know about the magnetic strips, but if you want to know how police radar works, I have a small tutorial I could send you or you can get from my computer. It's not enough to build one, but kinda general. Msg#:12230 *GENERAL* 01/02/89 14:35:01 From: BOB PADDOCK To: DALE REID (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 12183 (STORE DETECTORS) I think there was a discription of how some of these things worked in "How To Get Any Thing On Anybody" by Lee Lepan (Sp?). Msg#:12237 *GENERAL* 01/02/89 16:15:32 From: MARK LAMPKIN To: DALE REID (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 12183 (STORE DETECTORS) Dale....The systems you are curious about are two totally different technologies....The first system is magnetic....The strip is actually magnetized by a little machine that they have at the counter...When you purchase the item they demagnetize the strip...The portal at the entry/exit is a large proximity switch,(i.e.,the portal is a big antenna that is part of an oscillator tuned to a specific frequency).When the mag strip is in the field of the antenna,the oscillator is de-tuned proportionally by the size of the strips magnetic permiability...Those strips are not cut to random lengths,they are all approximately the same size and have the same magnetic permiability factor...The oscillator will deviate a specific amout from the center frequency in the presence of the strip...(i.e.,alarm sounds)...The second system is a microwave system...The diode on the strip is a strip line transmitter...The "tag" senses the presence of a certain frequency and re-transmits the signal at a different frequency...The main antenna,(i.e.,transponder),dectects the re-transmitted signal and prestohT...ALARM...Both are quite sZ|imple systems,but effective....The actual detection ratio is only approx. 72-78% accurate,but it's the deterrent effect of the system on the shopping pu blic,they are psych'ed out by the visual effect.....Mark Msg#:12800 *GENERAL* 01/13/89 20:48:06 From: DALE REID To: STEVE SAMPSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 12196 (STORE DETECTORS) Steve. Thanks for the reply. Yes, if you have a hrd copy, send it to me at Dale Reid, Rt. #4, Box 231-L, Eau Claire, WI 54701. Or leave me a number and I'll try to download it. Dale Thanks again. Msg#:12801 *GENERAL* 01/13/89 20:49:55 From: DALE REID To: MARK LAMPKIN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 12237 (STORE DETECTORS) Mark. thanks for the info. I knew someone that frequents here would be able to come up with the info. Hope that I can help someone next time. Dale Msg#:12184 *GENERAL* 01/01/89 10:47:24 From: DALE REID To: ALL Subj: DIGITAL COMPASS Has anyone sent for or received the info from NASA that was discussed in the Radio-Electronics column afew months ago about the circuits for digital electronic compasses? There has been no response to my inquiry as of yet, and I am curious if anything will be forthcoming, and if so, how useful is it? And has anyone bought the Radio Shack digital compass to tear apart yet to see how it works? Any comments appreciated. Dale Msg#:12229 *GENERAL* 01/02/89 14:33:34 From: BOB PADDOCK To: DALE REID (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 12184 (DIGITAL COMPASS) I don't have the R&E artical to look at right now, but I believe they gave the worng address for requesting info. I left the correct address for some one already, try scanning trough the messages here. The NASA report gets into alot of background on how the thing works, but isn't realy usful in help you to build one. The one good thing about the R&E artical is that you can actually read the schematic, compared to NASAs, they also show a good pix of one of the completed assemblys. Alas neither have much to say about the software you need. Msg#:12411 *GENERAL* 01/05/89 18:39:53 From: JIM NELSON To: DALE REID (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 12184 (DIGITAL COMPASS) Well I hope this helps: KVH Digital Heading Sensors, self compensating, 0.5 degrees accuracy, etc.. Contact Ken Wisehart, ext 312, (401) 847-3327; KVH Industries, 850 Aquidneck Ave., Middletown, RI, 02840. Tell them you saw the ad in "Sensors". Msg#:12802 *GENERAL* 01/13/89 20:51:17 From: DALE REID To: JIM NELSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 12411 (DIGITAL COMPASS) Jim. Thanks. I'll write them. By The Way, what is "sensors"? Dale Msg#:12995 *GENERAL* 01/18/89 23:52:52 From: JIM NELSON To: DALE REID (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 12802 (DIGITAL COMPASS) Dale, "Sensors" is a trade magazine dealing with automation and sensors used in automation, process control, and robotics. Msg#:12185 *GENERAL* 01/01/89 12:54:11 From: PHILIPPE WETTERWALD To: NATHAN ENGLE (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 12173 (MEMORY CHIPS COMPATIBILITY?) Thank you very much for your help, again Happy New Year. Msg#:12186 *GENERAL* 01/01/89 14:09:32 From: LUKE CROFOOT To: ALL Subj: PROXIMITY DETECTORS I am looking for a source that would educate me on how to utilize op amps as sensors for a home proximity detector. The detector will be used to "ring" the doorbell when someone approaches. I would really like to construct something similar to the car annunciators you see at traffic light intersections except this would detect a person. I have worked as a technician on some field equipment that used a very low frequency (100-150khz) to sense changes in the received frequency. Somewhat akin to the doppler affect. I don't have enough analog background so any help would be most appreciated. Thanks in advance........ Msg#:12193 *GENERAL* 01/01/89 21:19:34 From: NATHAN ENGLE To: LUKE CROFOOT (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 12186 (PROXIMITY DETECTORS) AT&T makes a PIR for use with its 8000 security products, but frankly you would probably be better off with a less expensive unit. A PIR uses IR variation to detect motion, and they work OK as long as you can tolerate small "dead" zones in which the sensor doesn't work. Also, they're not that great for outside where pets and neighborhood kids can set them off. Msg#:12207 *GENERAL* 01/02/89 06:58:42 From: LUKE CROFOOT To: NATHAN ENGLE (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 12193 (PROXIMITY DETECTORS) Nathan, thanks for responding to my quiry. I am leaning more toward something like a capacitance sensing (for changes) circuit that would have an adjustable 'pickup' range of from 1 to about 3 or 4 feet. I would mount the sensor such that small animals etc. would be outside the sense range. Again, thanks for the response..... Luke......... Msg#:12220 *GENERAL* 01/02/89 11:51:40 From: MARK LUCAS To: LUKE CROFOOT (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 12186 (PROXIMITY DETECTORS) Luke, I have had a PIR type motion detector at my front door for a couple of years. They type I use is a DS (Detection Systems DS-903) it is a beam type (50'+) range being used in a 6' area. Not one 'false' alarm. It is a bit different from the standard PIR where the pattern is a double beam. It is high enough to allow most animals to pass below without causing me to see who's at my door. The unit uses 12VDC or AC with standby battery. I have it connected to a single channel radio link to a receiver in my rear office. Most other PIR have lenses which you can change the pattern. You may also cover portions of the lens with tape or other IR opaque material to limit the coverage. By using the 'Passive' infrared, you may be able to run it on battery power for days. A doppler type or 'Active' detector will draw too much. On my street, the speed limit is 30mph... but cars speed by anyway... I've used the DS-903s at a fixed distance apart with transmitters back to my PC to monitor the speed and direction of the traffic. I the units operated for about a week before I had to recharge the gel batteries. After which, I had plenty of data to prove my complaint to the P.D. Proximity detectors, on the otherhand can detect larger metal objects very well, humans, on the other hand, do not provide as much displacement. You would have to have the sensitivity quite high--which would increase the possibility of falsing. On vaults and safes, they generally require physical contact before they'd trip and false alarms a no-no. You may be able to position an 'antenna' in an area where humans would be sure to pass close by and maintain a low sensitiviy level. Mark Lucas Msg#:12272 *GENERAL* 01/03/89 12:04:48 From: LUKE CROFOOT To: MARK LUCAS (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 12220 (PROXIMITY DETECTORS) Thanks for the info on the PIR sensor! Where can I purchase the Detection Systems DS-903 sensor and at what cost? Your system sounds very much like what I want to do...... Again, thanks for the reply !!!! Msg#:12285 *GENERAL* 01/03/89 18:52:27 From: MARK LUCAS To: LUKE CROFOOT (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 12272 (PROXIMITY DETECTORS) Luke, You could probably give a call to a local alarm company... some may not use the DS units, but may have something similar. If you cannot locate something which fits your needs, drop me another message and I'll dig one up. Incidentally, I've used these detectors while camping in a nearby mountain... there are quite a few bikers and partys up there... I've brought a couple DS units and surrounded the campsite. Maybe there's a market for paranoid campers??? Mark Msg#:12307 *GENERAL* 01/04/89 04:55:11 From: LUKE CROFOOT To: MARK LUCAS (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 12285 (PROXIMITY DETECTORS) Mark, Thanks again for replying. I will call an alarm co. Luke ........... Msg#:12187 *GENERAL* 01/01/89 16:37:42 From: ED PETERSON To: BOB PIERCE (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 12067 (SOLAR CELLS) Bob, Thanks for the info, I'll check Radio Sh. out. I did get one other response about solar cells. Since you also seem to be interested in solar projects here's the name and address: Southwest Photovoltaic Systems Inc. Houston, TX Phone: (713)-320-1022 also the following: Edmund Scientific (609) 573-6250 Ed. Msg#:12189 *GENERAL* 01/01/89 19:10:14 From: STEVE SMITH To: RICHARD WAYNE THIRSK (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 12108 (ARE MODEM KITS AVAILABLE?) Our PC club just bought a bunch of modems from CompuCom. These were 2400 baud internal IBM-PC untis for $95. We have had excellent results. If you want one, call James Freeman at 1-800-ACT-ONIT. Please mention that you heard about them from Chesapeake PC User's Group Msg#:12309 *GENERAL* 01/04/89 06:38:51 From: PELLERVO KASKINEN To: JOSEPH FREEMAN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 12134 (ARE MODEM KITS AVAILABLE?) Everybody in the business seems to use Rockwell chips for the FAX. This means all, the Japanese included (and are there any others who make FAX machines?). -- PJK Msg#:12489 *GENERAL* 01/07/89 08:57:41 From: JOSEPH FREEMAN To: PELLERVO KASKINEN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 12309 (ARE MODEM KITS AVAILABLE?) Thanks for the info. Msg#:12367 *GENERAL* 01/05/89 06:23:33 From: JACK PERGAL To: RICHARD WAYNE THIRSK Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 12108 (ARE MODEM KITS AVAILABLE?) Intel just announced a chip set that performs MNP 5 error detection and compression. This set is a rework of their chipset they are now selling. You'll probably see 2400 baud MNP5 modems for $100-$150 in 6 months to a year. Jack Msg#:12190 *GENERAL* 01/01/89 21:00:07 From: NATHAN ENGLE To: ALEXANDER SCHNEIDER (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 12175 (8088 BASED CPU FOR ROBOTIC P) The PLCC stands for Plastic Leadless Chip Carrier. Those are the square sockets that you plug new "leadless" chips into. Leadless chips do have leads, but they're kind of folded underneath and don't stick out. I think you could probably find them if you look around. I know Jameco carries a 68 pin PLCC. They could probably at least direct you to a distributor in your area. We haven't had any problems at AT&T but I think it helps when your purchasing people start asking about "large volume discounts". That helps get their attention. Msg#:12257 *GENERAL* 01/03/89 09:14:32 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: NATHAN ENGLE (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 12190 (8088 BASED CPU FOR ROBOTIC P) Actually, "PLCC" stands for Plastic Leaded Chip Carrier and they do have leads that fold underneath. "LCC" stands for Leadless Chip Carrier and doesn't have leads. There are just gold contacts on the bottom of the ceramic chip carrier. On the OEM286, the 80286 comes in an LCC package and the POACH chips come in 84-pin PLCC packages. All are socketed on the board, so sockets are available. Msg#:12304 *GENERAL* 01/04/89 03:17:47 From: NATHAN ENGLE To: KEN DAVIDSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 12257 (8088 BASED CPU FOR ROBOTIC P) Ah my mistake. I knew the P was for plastic and that leads entered into it somehow. So now that we've got a real expert on hand, how available were the 84 pin PLCCs, Ken? Where'd you get them, and what might one expect to pay for them if ya found 'em? Msg#:12314 *GENERAL* 01/04/89 08:36:45 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: NATHAN ENGLE (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 12304 (8088 BASED CPU FOR ROBOTIC P) The OEM-286 is Jeff's project, so I didn't have to hassle with finding the sockets. Actually, it's not too difficult for us to find most parts just because we have the backing of a company and have plenty of sales contacts. I don't know how available 84-pin PLCC sockets are on the "onesy" market. Msg#:12320 *GENERAL* 01/04/89 09:21:15 From: JEFF BACHIOCHI To: NATHAN ENGLE (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 12304 (8088 BASED CPU FOR ROBOTIC P) Nathan, Digi-key (1-800-344-4539) has PLCC sockets in their catalog. Part # C7282 for the 84 pin PLCC (Texas Instruments). Expect to pay about $13.00 each for 'em. They also come in 44 and 64 pin packs! jeff Msg#:12191 *GENERAL* 01/01/89 21:05:55 From: NATHAN ENGLE To: KENT CEDOLA (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 12177 (V25 SPECS) Good answer, Kent. We are using the small model for our work, so the address space is exactly linear. There is a little bit of wrangling that you have to go through to get your relocate utility to put the code and data segments in the right place, but you can ignore segments after that. The segmented architecture is always there, and it's good to keep it in the back of your mind because it WILL come back and bite you sometime, but I find that I am THINKING in C rather than assembler (which is the goal). Msg#:12221 *GENERAL* 01/02/89 12:03:04 From: ALEXANDER SCHNEIDER To: NATHAN ENGLE (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 12191 (V25 SPECS) And people wonder why Motorola's CPU's are used at all. Alex Msg#:12239 *GENERAL* 01/02/89 19:49:34 From: KENT CEDOLA To: NATHAN ENGLE (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 12191 (V25 SPECS) Since MS C will generate assembler source code on demand that can be used by the MS assembler, I rather write my assembler code in C first then modify the assembler from the C compile (neat). This is the reason that I want a 8088 based microcontroller (v25 or whatever) for my project. Msg#:12245 *GENERAL* 01/03/89 00:30:35 From: NATHAN ENGLE To: ALEXANDER SCHNEIDER (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 12221 (V25 SPECS) I think the reason people use Motorola CPUs is that they are less expensive. That's a valid reason, and it's still very true. I have used MS C to generate assembly code so that I could edit the output, but I find that with the V25 the main things I need to accomplish in assembly are things that use special instructions on the V25. A C compiler can't be expected to generate these "off the wall" instructions (although you can just call a function that executes the instruction and returns). Once I get into C I'm pretty loathe to drop back to assembly unless speed considerations force me. Msg#:12265 *GENERAL* 01/03/89 09:40:32 From: NEIL CHERRY To: ALEXANDER SCHNEIDER (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 12176 (V25 SPECS) Moto Moto Moto ... NJC Msg#:12192 *GENERAL* 01/01/89 21:13:17 From: NATHAN ENGLE To: STEVE SAMPSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 12178 (WHY PEOPLE WIREWRAP) Ugh! You have pretty awful nightmares, Steve. Actually soldering 5000 connections is a snap if you are willing to set up a wave soldering machine. I'm really surprized to hear that companies are selling wire-wrap boards as final products. In the long run, soldered connections are sure to be more reliable. The wire-wrap wire I use has a tendancy to turn black after a few months, and I'm sure that crud isn't helping the electricity to flow any better. Also, what happens when a wire breaks loose, etc. Unless the application only calls for one replacement every 5 years, I would reccommend generating a PWB and doing the thing up right. It will probably end up costing less in the long run. Msg#:12195 *GENERAL* 01/01/89 23:57:33 From: STEVE SAMPSON To: NATHAN ENGLE (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 12192 (WHY PEOPLE WIREWRAP) The engineers say that soldered connections couldn't meet the vibration and hard landings given the radar (airborne), while wire wrap could. But heck, the thing was designed in the 60's, pre-wave-solder days (smile). There's probably alot of technology gone by since it was designed. Today a backplane with that many connections probably isn't needed, given how everything is modular. Msg#:12242 *GENERAL* 01/02/89 21:20:22 From: MERVIN FRANK To: STEVE SAMPSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 12195 (WHY PEOPLE WIREWRAP) Wire-wrap was developed by Bell Labs. One entire issue of Bell System Tech Jour was devoted to the subject a few (10-15 ??) years ago. Some of us found the idea that wire-wrap was really better than god solid cold (ha) soldier joints. Msg#:12244 *GENERAL* 01/03/89 00:21:15 From: NATHAN ENGLE To: STEVE SAMPSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 12195 (WHY PEOPLE WIREWRAP) Interesting... just as a venture I would say that the radar board sounds like something the defense department would go for (which is part of the reason we pay so much for defense). I find it difficult to believe that handmade wirewrap board would be as reliable as machine tooled wave solder in the long run. I work at Bell Labs in Indianapolis, and we have found that plain old "through hole" PWBs with plated holes are very reliable under stress conditions. Surface mount wouldn't be any good since the larger flat-plak chips as well as SM transistors can be shaken loose or broken free just by flexing a board. The product I am working on right now is a security panel, and though the security industry is very big on reliability, no one has suggested that we build a wire-wrap circut instead of a soldered one. I'm sure that money is a big part of it, but if reliability was really that much greater from wirewrap we would at least offer it as an option. Msg#:12506 *GENERAL* 01/07/89 15:08:59 From: MARK BALCH To: NATHAN ENGLE (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 12174 (WHY PEOPLE WIREWRAP) Thanks, I guess I'll stay with soldering for my new projects. I took steve's advice and bought wire wrap wire for the soldering. Since it is so thin (as opposed to the 24 - 22 AGW stuff I used before) I can easily fit all of those bus lines onto a board. I soldering iron can get a little ungainly at times because it is so hot, but if you are careful (as you found out) you won't have any trouble. Bye, Mark Msg#:12611 *GENERAL* 01/09/89 10:35:29 From: STEVE CIARCIA To: MARK BALCH (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 12506 (WHY PEOPLE WIREWRAP) I use a 15 watt temperature regulated iron. Too hot an iron will glop too much solder on things. Be careful. --Steve Msg#:12848 *GENERAL* 01/14/89 13:52:29 From: MARK BALCH To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 12611 (WHY PEOPLE WIREWRAP) I also have a 15 watt iron. I use very good solder, forgot the brand but it comes in a black plastic see-thru tube. I think I'll have to abandon soldering though. The ease and reliability of wire wrapping seems too good not to switch. But the iron will always be there for misc. work! I am afraid of "cold" solder joints and shorts because of the flux (is that possible). Bye, Mark Msg#:14674 *GENERAL* 02/22/89 22:53:32 From: DAVID K. MERRIMAN To: MARK BALCH (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 12506 (WHY PEOPLE WIREWRAP) Mark; I'm a little late with this, but you might be interested in the viewpoint of an electronics tech (14 years, Navy-trained). Wirewrap is great if you're building ONE of something, aren't sure if it works right, and won't be using it in any kind of 'hostile' environment (temperature, vibration [!!], etc), or expect to make changes to it with any degree of frequency. But, if you really want reliability, then circuit boards are the way to go- even if you have to roll your own. One place I worked at, they were using wirewrap boards in an unshielded box that they were putting in an AIRPLANE- and wondering why their MTBF was less than an hour! After I laid their circuit out as a PC board (the circuit worked, just failed in the environment they were using it in), the Mean Time Between Failures went to something over 100 hours; and THOSE failure were because they were using commercial grade chips, when they should have spec'd MIL-types. Personally, I use wirewrap for those quick-and-dirty jobs, but if it's IMPORTANT, I use/build a pc board- and if it's REALLY critical, I dispense with the IC sockets, if at all possible. It's basically a question of investment- wirewrap for short-term, pc boards for long-term. <]Dave[> Msg#:14684 *GENERAL* 02/23/89 01:20:27 From: WESLY BERNEBERG To: DAVID K. MERRIMAN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 14674 (WHY PEOPLE WIREWRAP) I couldn't agree with you more. I am a current electronics tech with the Navy and have some wirewrap equipment. It seems to be a good idea for prototype equipment, however with the hostile environment of a Naval vessel wirewrap is not the best of ideas. A printed circut board is easier to fix than four or five layers of wirewrap that have been damaged. I feel that wirewrap is great for prototyping, however for everyday use it becomes a burden on the tech that has to fix a particular piece of equipment. Thanks for getting the end fixers point of view in there. Msg#:14723 *GENERAL* 02/23/89 09:50:01 From: DAVID K. MERRIMAN To: WESLY BERNEBERG (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 14684 (WHY PEOPLE WIREWRAP) Just figured I had to put my two cents worth in- from reading these messages, I get the idea that we have a lot of high-powered engineering available here, so I thought that it might be interesting to get an alternate viewpoint into the "stew". Msg#:14734 *GENERAL* 02/23/89 12:12:48 From: BRUCE WEBB To: DAVID K. MERRIMAN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 14674 (WHY PEOPLE WIREWRAP) My experience has been that wire-wrapped boards can be beefed up by soldering all of the connections after the board is working properly and laying the wrap out with the same care you'd use on a PC board (don't cross important high-speed lines). I haven't used boards in quite as hostile environment as you describe, but by putting the circuit on a prototype board that installs in a shielded enclosure, and taking some care (like layout, soldering etc.), I've got boards that have been working for YEARS with no significant failures (software errors NOT included). The best thing about wire wrap is that the board can be easily modified and even disassembled with very little dameage.-- Bruce. Msg#:14765 *GENERAL* 02/23/89 22:31:36 From: MARK BALCH To: DAVID K. MERRIMAN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 14674 (WHY PEOPLE WIREWRAP) Thanks. Yes, I have gotten lots of replies on that one, but it's nice to hear another person's viewpoint. I;m going to wire wrap because I'm not making bombers and I am only making one. Eventually, I'll buy a Datak PCB starter kit and learn to make my own PCBs. Bye, Mark Msg#:14779 *GENERAL* 02/24/89 01:07:00 From: JACK PERGAL To: DAVID K. MERRIMAN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 14674 (WHY PEOPLE WIREWRAP) I didn't think the military would buy anything wirewrapped in an unshielded enclosure, especially for some mission critical system. Usually mil stuff is built like a tank , that's one of the reasons it's so expensive. Jack Msg#:14813 *GENERAL* 02/24/89 09:29:41 From: DAVID K. MERRIMAN To: MARK BALCH (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 14765 (WHY PEOPLE WIREWRAP) Even if you're just going to make one of something, I think that it might be worthwhile for you to lay out your PC board at 2x scale, and have it reduced at a photography place (about any photographer should be able to do it). If you're going to lay it out with tapes, pads, patterns, etc, then I would highly recommend you check out a company called Bishop Graphics- their sole function in life is making PC layout stuff. They have a book called "The Design and Drafting of Printed Circuits" that is almost required reading for those that lay out boards. If you're going to use a CAD program, then good-quality paper, pens, etc, are your best bet- the better these are, the better the final results. If you need the address for Bishop Graphics, it's: Bishop Graphics; 5388 Sterling Center Drive; Westlake Village, CA; 91359; (818) 991-2600. My job right now is doing schematics and then laying them out as PC boards, but I'm doing it with a program called Tango PCB, and I've got an HP "E" size plotter and drafting pens to do it with. (Wish I could figure out how to let the air out of that plotter, and take it home!) Msg#:14814 *GENERAL* 02/24/89 09:33:09 From: DAVID K. MERRIMAN To: JACK PERGAL (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 14779 (WHY PEOPLE WIREWRAP) This stuff wasn't actually being bought by the military, just being used for some military-related R&D efforts. As for the cost of military stuff, there's also the problem of it being ludicrously OVER spec'd. I always remember that comic strip SHOE, where the General at the press conference said "You get a wood screw. We get a fiber-intrusive....". 'Nuff said. Msg#:14816 *GENERAL* 02/24/89 09:35:00 From: DAVID K. MERRIMAN To: BRUCE WEBB (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 14734 (WHY PEOPLE WIREWRAP) The problem with soldering the connections after you've wire-wrapped is that you have to be EXTREMELY careful not to cause the insulation to peel away from the wires- that Kynar isn't real heat-resistant. Msg#:15014 *GENERAL* 02/27/89 22:22:40 From: MARK BALCH To: DAVID K. MERRIMAN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 14813 (WHY PEOPLE WIREWRAP) It gets too expensive for me. I have Schema and I have to suffer with a dot matrix 9 pin printer. All my schematics look very good, but they are not very large (mabye a plus?). I really shouldn't say suffer, because my setup is enough for my needs. I have heard of Tango. When I decide to try PCBs, I'm going to buy a starter kit from Datak which is for hobbyists. But I'll wait a while. Wrapping is fine for now. Mark Msg#:15078 *GENERAL* 02/28/89 10:36:15 From: DAVID K. MERRIMAN To: MARK BALCH (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 15014 (WHY PEOPLE WIREWRAP) I still do some wirewrapping myself- but for the reasons I mentioned before. If I get something that I'll want several of, then I lay it out as a PC board; or if something will be used in a less-than-hospitable environment, it gets the same treatment. I've soldered the wirewrap connections, and while it works, it does tend to defeat the advantage of wirewrap; ie, making changes easier. But, to each his own. The one thing that you might find most helpful is to make the investment in a GOOD electric wirewrap "gun". Those hand-wrap tools are great for unwrapping and making changes, but for the first layout, a good electric wrap gun (like those from OK Machine) is a virtual lifesaver. Msg#:12198 *GENERAL* 01/02/89 00:27:59 From: RALPH SEIBERT To: ALL USERS Subj: PH SENSORS Does anybody now where I can find some cheap PH/Temp sensors? I am interested in building an electronic Ph/temp monitor for a fish tank, and I am looking for something that is cheap and easy to build with. If there are any fish hobbiest out there you know how much of a pain it can be to test and monitor several tanks. Msg#:12200 *GENERAL* 01/02/89 01:33:14 From: JOE NOVOSEL To: TIM CODDINGTON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 11500 (68701 (6801) CROSS-ASSEMBLER?) I would like to find a 6801 and a 6805 cross assembler to work with the IBM PC. Does the 68(7)05 also have problems with it's reset line? And are the problems with the 68701 very serious? Msg#:12550 *GENERAL* 01/08/89 16:51:32 From: MATT OLSON To: JOE NOVOSEL Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 12200 (68701 (6801) CROSS-ASSEMBLER?) JOE 2500AD SOFTWARE INC. MAKES A PRETTY GOOD ASSEMBLER FOR THE 6805 AND OTHER MICROPROCESSORS. THEY CAN BE REACHED AT 303-369-5001. AVOCET ALSO HAS ONE AVAILABLE BUT I HAV NOT USED THEIRS. YOU MAY KNOW THAT MOTOROLA HAS ONE AVAILABLE ON THEIR BULLETIN BOARD WHICH CAN BE DOWNLOADED, BUT IT DOES HAVE CERTAIN LIMITATIONS (LACK OF MACRO SUPPORT IS ONE , I BELEIVE). THEIR BOARD # IS 512 440 3733. WHILE WE ARE ON THE TOPIC OF MOTOROLA, WHAT PROBLEMS HAVE THE HAD WITH THE 68705? I KNOW THAT THEY HAD A PROBLEM WITH 68HC805 IN THAT IF THE RESET LINE WAS FLUCTUATING OR NOT HELD LOW DURING A POWER DOWN THE MEMORY IN THE EEPROM COULD BE DISRUPTED OR WIPED OUT. THAT ONE HAPPENED TO ONCE. THEY HAVE COME OUT WITH A T0-92 PACKAGE 5 VOLT SUPPLY MONITOR THAT WOULD CONNECT TO THE RESET LINE AND GO LOW IF THE VOLTAGE ON THE 5V SUPPLY DROPPED BELOW A CERTAIN LEVEL (BASICALLY A COMPARATOR IN A NICE SMALL PACKAGE. THE PART # FOR THAT CHIP IS MC34064. MATT Msg#:12201 *GENERAL* 01/02/89 02:25:58 From: FRED DEMKE To: ALL USERS Subj: PRINTER, TTY-40 I have been using my TELETYPE TTY-40 for about 8 years on various CP/M systems. Now I would like to rum the old war horse under MS-DOS on 286 and 386 AT machines but the serial port handshake timing is not right. There must be a driver out there to do this but I can't track it down. I hope someone can steer me to such a driver program and how to install it on my computer Msg#:12203 *GENERAL* 01/02/89 02:54:52 From: BOB PIERCE To: ED PETERSON (Rcvd) Subj: SOLAR CELLS A word of warning.... I purchased some solar cells from Edmund Sci. once and they were the exact same ones that Radio Shack carried. But, not only were they surplus cells, they had apparently been overheated while being desoldered. The result was that the current output was greatly reduced (>50%). Now I prefer to inspect before I buy. BOB Msg#:12290 *GENERAL* 01/03/89 21:04:35 From: ED PETERSON To: BOB PIERCE (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 12203 (SOLAR CELLS) Bob: Thanks for the warning, I'll keep my eyes open. Ed. Msg#:12204 *GENERAL* 01/02/89 02:58:43 From: ALLAN LONG To: JIM NELSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 11888 (FARADAY CAGE) Well Van Eck (spelling?) was a dutch boy who figured out that you could decipher any computer screen remotely by using an antenna, and a tv set and a few other goodies, from across the street. There was an article about him in the wall street journal along with the information on the governments tempest project which uses faraday cages to diffuse (scatter) the emissions so as not to allow this kind of monitoring. Oh well. Allan Msg#:12410 *GENERAL* 01/05/89 18:38:55 From: JIM NELSON To: ALLAN LONG (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 12204 (FARADAY CAGE) A defense contractor named E-Systems builds that sort of stuff for the spies at the CIA and the NSA. Msg#:12436 *GENERAL* 01/06/89 01:52:04 From: ALLAN LONG To: JIM NELSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 12410 (FARADAY CAGE) You know a friend of mine from Longview, Texas works for E-Systems (dallas) but I am sure he couldnt discuss it if he worked on the Tempest stuff. I thought that one of the likeminded souls on this BBS might have a little insight on the Van Eck stuff. I believe that a little bird told me that E Systems mainly does work on the airborne command post planes, awacs and such like but who knows? Sounds more like a project for R & E than Ink anyway whatdaya think?|) Msg#:12468 *GENERAL* 01/06/89 17:44:57 From: ALEXANDER SCHNEIDER To: ALLAN LONG (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 12436 (FARADAY CAGE) I have heard a little bit about it, the receiver works on the horizontal scanning frequency, but for some reason the setup doesn't get the sync right, so your hardware has to generate it. Msg#:12473 *GENERAL* 01/06/89 18:54:44 From: JIM NELSON To: ALLAN LONG (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 12436 (FARADAY CAGE) E-Systems built a box that sits on power lines, and reads the typing on electronic typewriters from a mile away. I don't know where I read this - it may be apocryphal, but supposedly they were able to zoom in on individual typewriters in a room full of them. It's probably not that sensational given the state of signal processing technology, and the cheapness of dsp. Regarding the monitoring of PC video monitors from across the street: I have a video monitor located about eight feet away from the computer video monitor on which I'm watching my typing. If I disconnect cable from the vcr feeding that video monitor I am sometimes able to view the computer video on that other monitor, although it is clearly unsynchronized. It would be relatively easy to recover the sync info and monochrome info with even a poor antenna, but I don't know how one could recover component ttl video info, or component (rgb) analog picture info with that antenna. Have you read the descriptions of microwave resonator based non-electronic bugs in a book called "Spycatcher"? Funny thing about that piece of non- fiction is the author's conclusion. Although a former section head at MI-5, and having dedicated his time there to the design of electronic surveillance devices, none mattered because the Director General of MI-5 was a Russian agent. It's always easier if you start at the top! Msg#:12484 *GENERAL* 01/07/89 04:02:39 From: ALEXANDER SCHNEIDER To: JIM NELSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 12473 (FARADAY CAGE) Typewriters are easy to bug with a simple microphone, or anything that can record the length of time between the key being pressed and the ball hitting the paper. Msg#:12721 *GENERAL* 01/12/89 00:59:53 From: ALLAN LONG To: ALEXANDER SCHNEIDER (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 12468 (FARADAY CAGE) The article on van eck appeared in an old Wall Street Journal and was kinda interesting about three years ago. I would be willing to bet that anyone monitoring my typing would need the equivalent of a Cray just to correct the errors:) I would like to have the ability to both receive and send video to a PC. Cant you see some wiseguy getting a printout of his attempts to bootleg something using copyiipc from any anonymous sender? What about the feds? Anyone doubt that they are monitoring suspected drug dealers? They wouldnt even need a warrant since they are just picking up transmissions like those "cordless phone" cases a few years ago. I wonder how p.o.ed they get at LCD displays? Lifes tuff in the Fed lane. Msg#:12205 *GENERAL* 01/02/89 03:13:37 From: ALLAN LONG To: ALL Subj: RADIO TRANSCEIVERS Does anyone have any suggestions for an intermediate range communication system and/or source for a transceiver (preferably with a lightweight headset) that will allow a 20 mile or so range in almost all types of terrain. I have tried CB's and the jabberjaws walked all over me. I have tried FM but not enough range. Any suggestions are appreciated. Thanks Allan. Msg#:12208 *GENERAL* 01/02/89 08:16:05 From: STEVE SAMPSON To: ALLAN LONG (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 12205 (RADIO TRANSCEIVERS) Sounds like you need something commercial for that kind of range. You need something with a repeater to get 20 miles on a headset type radio (couple of watts?). That or go Amateur radio. For commercial stuff you can find them in the phone book. Msg#:12247 *GENERAL* 01/03/89 01:57:18 From: ALLAN LONG To: STEVE SAMPSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 12208 (RADIO TRANSCEIVERS) I was hoping to poorboy this a little and avoid the commercial stuff as being too expensive and a general rip off. I thought that someone here might have had some experience with UHF, VHF or ULF changes that could be made to your basic radio shack 40 channel 5 watt handheld transceiver. I really do find it annoying to have some laserlip from CA come up on a channel I am using to try and locate a friend who has wandered off on my farm. I would even be willing to try marine frequencies or whatever I can get for around $100 a unit. ( I must be dreaming! ) Thanks for your help. Msg#:12206 *GENERAL* 01/02/89 04:14:40 From: BILL KURY To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: ROBOTICS Hi Steve! I must admit it is kind of awe inspiring to talk to the fellow who started the "Circuit Cellar". Let me say that you are doing one heck of a job although I kind of have the feeling that this is just a hobby that you get paid for and not really work. Anyhow back to things at hand. A couple of years ago (around 1980) you did a project on a robotic platform. I was just wondering if you will be doing any new projects in this area? The reason I ask is from looking through the dozens of projects you have done, you could tie a couple of them together and create a reasonable robot. Not only that but I would kind of like to find out what approach you would use in designing an overall robotic system. Should you get a chance, drop me a note, I would be very interested in hearing from you. Bill Kury Oh, by the way, Ink is terrific!!!!! Msg#:12213 *GENERAL* 01/02/89 10:30:29 From: STEVE CIARCIA To: BILL KURY (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 12206 (ROBOTICS) I don't have any personal robotic projects in the works (my latest bent is home control again) but it is a general topic that will have significant coverage in CC INK. Talk to Curt and see what is in the mill. --Steve Msg#:12211 *GENERAL* 01/02/89 10:25:37 From: STEVE CIARCIA To: MARK BALCH (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 12168 (PARTS INFORMATION) Realize that I had a paid staff of 12 people involved in answering my mail including ASK BYTE. But I also answered EVERY letter even while claiming that only those that were published would be answered. I believe BYTE has now given the sole responsibility of ASK BYTE to editor Rick Grehan. He is admittedly a software type and therfore you might see fewer hardware questions or questions that take real research (time) in the future. Regarding your questions, perhaps Jeff Bachiochi can remember where the LCD display we used for that project came from and Ken has been buying 3.5" drives lately. Computer Shopper was recommended, BTW, because it is one of the few magazines that Fred Langa doesn't apparently feel he is in competetion with these days. --Steve Msg#:12507 *GENERAL* 01/07/89 15:13:47 From: MARK BALCH To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 12211 (PARTS INFORMATION) Thanks, I'll ask Jeff. So do you miss having all of those 'slaves'? Bye, Mark Msg#:12607 *GENERAL* 01/09/89 10:02:53 From: STEVE CIARCIA To: MARK BALCH (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 12507 (PARTS INFORMATION) I'm sure they wouldn't like to be called slaves and they are still around all contributing to CC INK. --Steve Msg#:12847 *GENERAL* 01/14/89 13:50:13 From: MARK BALCH To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 12607 (PARTS INFORMATION) Of course not. I didn't mean it that way. Do you still get much mail, now that you are no longer in BYTE? Bye, Mark Msg#:12904 *GENERAL* 01/16/89 14:41:13 From: STEVE CIARCIA To: MARK BALCH (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 12847 (PARTS INFORMATION) We still get loads of mail and the staff is just as large as it ever was. --Steve Msg#:13115 *GENERAL* 01/21/89 17:03:10 From: MARK BALCH To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 12904 (PARTS INFORMATION) That's nice to hear! Keep it up. While I don't use the 80xxx family, your articles in INK and BYTE have helped me alot. Bye, Mark Msg#:12268 *GENERAL* 01/03/89 09:57:14 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: MARK BALCH (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 12168 (PARTS INFORMATION) Just to expand a bit on Steve's answer, BYTE is apparently using all their technical editors to answer Ask BYTE letters in the magazine, with the initials of who's answering following the answer. A quick look at January's issue does show that Rick is answering most of them, though. Another thing I've been paying attention to in the past year or so is the topics of the letters selected. Steve had been selecting a good cross section of all computers and topics, with a slight lean to IBM PCs to appease the editors. A look at the January selection shows them to be all IBM PC with one or two Macs sprinkled in. I'm still waiting for the "IBM PC/Mac/Clone Journal" subheading to appear on the cover one of these days. I think the problem you'll have with finding parts used in a Zenith laptop is that most of those parts are custom designed and manufactured for a particular computer. Zenith isn't going to turn around and sell those parts to people who want to put together kits. You can often find bits and pieces on the surplus market (an LCD display here, a 3.5" drive there), but when it's all said and done, you won't have a Zenith laptop, but a much larger and more cumbersome box. Another factor is that some of what is used in the laptops is fairly new technology, available only to large companies making large quantities. You're just not going to find the parts listed with surplus houses. Msg#:12276 *GENERAL* 01/03/89 13:00:44 From: JEFF BACHIOCHI To: MARK BALCH (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 12168 (PARTS INFORMATION) Mark, The LCD used was from AXIONIX. Sorry I don't have the address od telephone # handy, check the BYTE issue for that info. Another possibility, Electroluminescent and AC Plasma displays from DECo (Digital Electronics Corp.) 415-786-0520. If you scan the display board ADs in numerous PC mags you will see some that optionally drive LCDs. jeff Msg#:12508 *GENERAL* 01/07/89 15:18:30 From: MARK BALCH To: KEN DAVIDSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 12268 (PARTS INFORMATION) Well it just seems odd that something so common as a 16 x 80 LCD should be so hard to find. I have looked through dozens of catalogs and twice as many computer magazine ads. The largest display I have ever found was sold at digi-key ans it was an LCD with 2 lines of 40 characters! What ever happened to people home-brewing their own laptops or micro computers? Or did they ever do this. Ahh, yes I have a question: Lets assume that there is a good engineer in Zenith's computer department and he has a new idea for a laptop. How in the hell does he get custom parts for his specific computer that might not even sell? Even Zenith can't order 10,000 units of something when they are only doing R&D... Bye, Mark Msg#:12509 *GENERAL* 01/07/89 15:21:35 From: MARK BALCH To: JEFF BACHIOCHI (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 12276 (PARTS INFORMATION) Thanks for the company name. Which issue of byte could I check in? Since you now have a column in INK, can you work into one issue the topics of hard-to-find-parts? Mabye someday when I get more advanced in the world of digital electronics, I will want to build a laptop with a decent small keyboard, a 16 x 80 LCD and a 3.5" hard drive. Bye, Mark P.S. I forgot, I don't know how good they are, but Jameco sells 3.5" hard drives. They have two sizes: 20Meg and 30Meg. Msg#:12604 *GENERAL* 01/09/89 09:32:40 From: JEFF BACHIOCHI To: MARK BALCH (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 12509 (PARTS INFORMATION) Mark, I found Axonix's tel # 801-582-9271. Steve wrote about this project in the Sept-Oct 87 issues of BYTE. jeff Msg#:12846 *GENERAL* 01/14/89 13:49:18 From: MARK BALCH To: JEFF BACHIOCHI (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 12604 (PARTS INFORMATION) Thanks for the phone number. I take it that they are the ones that supply the big LCDs. But do you have an address, I would rather spend 25 cents than a long distance call (Yes, I am the "mail" type). Bye, Mark Msg#:12981 *GENERAL* 01/18/89 12:19:02 From: JEFF BACHIOCHI To: MARK BALCH (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 12846 (PARTS INFORMATION) Mark, 25 cents it is! Axonix Corp. 2257 South 1100 East Suite 2C Salt Lake CIty Utah 84106 jeff Msg#:12215 *GENERAL* 01/02/89 10:42:52 From: STEVE CIARCIA To: DAVE USSELL (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 12130 (THE WIRED HOME) Welcome to the club. Interesting, Sharper Image, DAK or one of those companies was recently selling an RF headphone set ($79?) that does what you describe. They neglect to to tell you, however, that it is not stereo. Personally, I think the IR wireless units have greater fidelity and they are stereo. Perhaps it's time to string a few more LEDs around the house. --Steve Msg#:12389 *GENERAL* 01/05/89 12:11:39 From: DAVE USSELL To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 12215 (THE WIRED HOME) Steve, thanks for your response. DAK has a unit that is designed to pipe portable CD players' output to an FM car radio. It has proven to have low range and questionable fility. I condidered using IR LEDs as you suggest but I feel that the flexibility offered by using FM broadcasting justifies this search. I don't want to restrict myself to an IR flooded area. I'd like the freedom of working in the back yard, basement (and you didn't think they had basements in California), attic or where ever. Thanks Dave Msg#:12216 *GENERAL* 01/02/89 11:24:08 From: MARK LUCAS To: TIM CODDINGTON (Rcvd) Subj: CROSS ASSEMBLER Tim, I don't know if you have already found your cross-assembler, however, I found a few decent ones on another bbs: The system is a CP/M style BBS, and it may be somewhat difficult to navigate. I've seen Intel and Zilog cross-assemblers and have used the 8748/49 program. The BBS is NEWPORT NEWS (804) 898-7493. You need not pre-register. Hope it helps.. Mark Lucas Msg#:12223 *GENERAL* 01/02/89 14:03:02 From: DAVE SCOTTE To: ANYONE Subj: CRASHES I've only called this board a few times, and all of the users seem very knowledgable about computers, so I have a question (or two). I recently finished building an IBM compatible. It was the first step I took to attempt to learn about the IBM computer itself. (after living inside an apple //e for 8 years I figured it was time to get out and see the world) The problem I am having is this: my system crashes constantly. It happens at anytime, no matter what I am doing. At first I thought maybe is was the BIOS (ATI PGA bios), then I thought it was a virus, but I'm not sure. I purchased the board from Mica computer systems. It's a 6/10 Mhz 286 motherboard by ATI. Other problems I have encountered are when I do a "cls", sometimes the screen fills up with black exclamation points on a green background. Anyone know what's going on here ??? Dave. Msg#:12334 *GENERAL* 01/04/89 14:55:47 From: MARK PAYTON To: DAVE SCOTTE (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 12223 (CRASHES) Dave, Could be any number of problems, possibly memory too slow for the processor/clock speed, or a board conflict. Whose hard drive/controller card are you using? What is the speed of the memory chips? Are there any off-the-shelf programs that you have a hard time getting to run? Whose video card is installed? Mark Msg#:12231 *GENERAL* 01/02/89 14:36:23 From: BOB PADDOCK To: BILL FULLER (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 12105 (VOICE REGOGNITION) Scan trough the "C"ircit section of the system with a search string of "VLSI", to find a similar thread. Msg#:12303 *GENERAL* 01/04/89 02:51:38 From: BILL FULLER To: NATHAN ENGLE (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 12140 (VOICE REGOGNITION) Nathan, My application is not for remote access. I intend to control things while in my home. For example, voice recognition for an alarm system, or to control lights etc. Maybe even to answer the phone. My application is not a serious one. My main goal is to learn more about SR and to see what capabilities can be achieved. Thanks for your reply, I'll let you know how things progress. Bill Msg#:12235 *GENERAL* 01/02/89 15:54:51 From: MARK LAMPKIN To: MARK BALCH (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 12166 (6850 ACIA'S UPGRADES) It's probably +/- 2%...Give it a try...Mark Msg#:12510 *GENERAL* 01/07/89 15:22:47 From: MARK BALCH To: MARK LAMPKIN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 12235 (6850 ACIA'S UPGRADES) Thanks. When I get the specs for the 6551, I'll start experimenting with home-brew RS232 ports. Bye, Mark Msg#:12236 *GENERAL* 01/02/89 15:56:39 From: GARY WHITE To: DALE NASSAR (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 12053 (SP1000) Thanks for the info, but it doesn't sound like what I'm after. I don't have an apple either. What I need is a standalone system to go on a robot. Regards, GWW Msg#:12248 *GENERAL* 01/03/89 03:12:36 From: CRAIG THOMSON To: DALE NASSAR (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 12053 (SP1000) The SP1000 is no longer widely available from GI. I recently completed a stand alone speech system based on LPC analysis and faced a problem trying to obtain small numbers of this device for assessment. GI has recently released a 10 coefficient LPC IC which acts as the replacement for the SP1000. Personally I felt that the SP1000 was way over rated and the documentation that GI supplied to me on this device was in many instances incorrect and at best juvenile in technical detail. Msg#:12246 *GENERAL* 01/03/89 00:54:25 From: JON OLSSON To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: PULSE DETECTION I need to incorporate a pulse detection circuit in an upcoming project. (by pulse I mean biological) It could output a TTL pulse or RS232. I seem to remember some mention in one of your letters columns, but I can't locate it. If you or a subscriber could steer me I would appreciate it. Msg#:12249 *GENERAL* 01/03/89 07:53:09 From: BILL CRONINGER To: ALL USERS Subj: BIOFEEDBACK I am an Occupational therapist at a rural hospital in Maine. I have quite a few patients who have experienced a stroke or CVA and would like to try using muscle biofeedback to help them regain use of the affected arm and hand. Unfortunately most of the units available run between 6 and 20K dollars. Would like to try using my Tandy model 102 as a graphic based biofeedback device. Have an a/d converter and software that will display voltages graphically but am way over my head with designing a differential amplifier to pick up muscle voltages from the skin in the 0-250 microvolt range. Have done some research as to the frequency range, sensitivity , filtering, signal/noise ration etc. Has anyone any experience with this type of amp or could someone point me in the right direction. Would greatly appreciate any suggestions, I think some of my people would really benefit from this technology.. Thanks Bill Croninger Msg#:12269 *GENERAL* 01/03/89 10:08:00 From: STEVE CIARCIA To: BILL CRONINGER (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 12249 (BIOFEEDBACK) We did a recent electroencephalograph project called HAL-4 which is rated very highly. It is available as a kit (see recent issues of CC INK) and a article reprint is available for $3. --Steve PS. Do a subject search on HAL-4 for more info. Msg#:12366 *GENERAL* 01/05/89 05:57:19 From: BILL CRONINGER To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 12269 (BIOFEEDBACK) Thanks, I had read the article in Byte and came across your name as the author. Would this type of circuit work for me as I need to look at voltages in the 1-250 microvolt range, as opposed to frequencies. I may be showing my ignorance here (Ha) Steve had you written an article on feeding muscle voltages to an oscilliscope years ago? It seems a friend had shown me an article on this from a magazine published some years ago. I will go back and re-read the Byte article to see if Hal might fill my needs Bill Msg#:12387 *GENERAL* 01/05/89 12:02:21 From: STEVE CIARCIA To: BILL CRONINGER (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 12366 (BIOFEEDBACK) It just so happens that HAL's sensitivity is in the range of 0-256 microV. The signals are amplified, sampled via an A/D and serialized. If you attach a scope directly to the analog inputs to the A/D you will see the analog level in real time. The amplifier and filter circuit on HAL is very good. Regarding the past article, yes I did one many years ago. All it was was a single channel instrumentation amp with a level detector/comparator output: i.e muscle moved or didn't move. HAL is much more sophisticated. --Steve Msg#:12418 *GENERAL* 01/05/89 19:23:44 From: BILL CRONINGER To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 12387 (BIOFEEDBACK) Yes, hear the embarassment onver over the line? I went back to the library and read (!) the article after work tonight. It IS all there. The preamp section looks like it might work with the A/D converter I mentioned. Did you say that reprints were available through CCI? It's amazing to me how much more sense the schematics made after an additional month of reading everything I could get my hands on! Thanks Bill Msg#:12454 *GENERAL* 01/06/89 14:52:40 From: STEVE CIARCIA To: BILL CRONINGER (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 12418 (BIOFEEDBACK) Reprints of any Circuit Cellar article are available for $3 postpaid. HAL-4 is also available as a kit. I warn you that the accuracy and noise immunity of the amplifier and filter circuits of that design have alot to do with part layout (grounding) and quality (2% caps). We guarantee the performance of the kits. --Steve Msg#:12258 *GENERAL* 01/03/89 09:19:27 From: NEIL CHERRY To: MARK BALCH (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 12164 (AS0.EXE AND MOTOROLA'S VERSION) Sound like either you are entering them incorrectly or something. How about a sample of your code (like a short subroutine). I do recall there being 2 different ways to enter the 6800/6802 source code. Msg#:12511 *GENERAL* 01/07/89 15:26:12 From: MARK BALCH To: NEIL CHERRY (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 12258 (AS0.EXE AND MOTOROLA'S VERSION) 90 OPT C,CRE,S 100 NAM ADD4NR 110 ORG $0100 120 TEMP RMB 1 130 LDA A #25 140 ADD A #35 150 ADD A #$32 160 ADD A #%10001 170 STA A TEMP 180 END This is the EXACT text source code that I entered into AS0.EXE. I copied it out of Motorola's book: Basic Microprocessors and the 6800. Do you see anything wrong with EVERY line? Because the assembler didn't understand ANY of the lines, not just one or two of them. Thanks alot! Mark P.S. I already tried removing the line numbers, the label, the opt command and the END command. Msg#:12543 *GENERAL* 01/08/89 13:32:05 From: RON LEBLANC To: MARK BALCH (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 12511 (AS0.EXE AND MOTOROLA'S VERSION) 1) Why have you not uploaded this public domain assembler to this BBS so that the rest of us can look at it? It would be much easier to determine what is wrong if you did upload it. Then the rest of us could experiment with it to find out what's wrong/right with the assembler. 2) This would be the first assembler that I have ever seen that uses line numbers???? Assembly is NOT BASIC! 3) Some assemblers are free format, meaning that the operand, op-code, and data can be anywhere on the line. Others are not. Sometimes spaces are significant, othertimes not. In any case, an exact example of what you are trying to assemble would be a big help in determining whats wrong. 4) Listings in a manual do not imply code that works. They generally are examples. (Translation - NOT necessarilly able to be assembled directly.) 5) A lot of older - non sophisticated - assemblers and compilers would find the first error and then report everything else after that as an error also. This is because the assembler or compiler had no way of resetting itself from the error - as in going to the next line and continuing to assemble from there. So the fact that the entire file reports errors is not improbable, especially if the first line contains an error. 6) Upload the assembler - if its a public domain program - and the source code you are trying to assemble and I'll look at it when I get a few minutes. Msg#:12567 *GENERAL* 01/08/89 20:12:29 From: MARK LAMPKIN To: MARK BALCH (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 12511 (AS0.EXE AND MOTOROLA'S VERSION) Mark...As a casual observer,I peeked at your message,this is not Basic that you are programming....No line #'s are needed... ....Mark Msg#:12620 *GENERAL* 01/09/89 11:32:05 From: NEIL CHERRY To: MARK BALCH (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 12511 (AS0.EXE AND MOTOROLA'S VERSION) Mark, I'll look at it today and I'll run it through the version of tha assembler I have, if I don't have that version I'll d/l it. We'll figure this one out. NJC Msg#:12830 *GENERAL* 01/14/89 13:24:35 From: MARK BALCH To: RON LEBLANC (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 12543 (AS0.EXE AND MOTOROLA'S VERSION) There is no need to upload the assembler, I DOWLOADED IT FROM THIS BBS! I already tried omitting the line numbers but to no avail. One person suggested that I use commas and so I will. Bye, Mark Msg#:12831 *GENERAL* 01/14/89 13:25:14 From: MARK BALCH To: MARK LAMPKIN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 12567 (AS0.EXE AND MOTOROLA'S VERSION) Thanks. Others have told me that. I will try no line numbers AND commas in the operands. Bye, Mark Msg#:12832 *GENERAL* 01/14/89 13:25:41 From: MARK BALCH To: NEIL CHERRY (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 12620 (AS0.EXE AND MOTOROLA'S VERSION) Thanks alot! Mabye you 'll have more luck... Msg#:12264 *GENERAL* 01/03/89 09:34:19 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: MARK BALCH (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 12163 (AS0.EXE AND MOTOROLA'S VERSION) I don't have any other details about Motorola's assemblers, so you'll have to talk to them to find out what is going on. I don't know how well they support their BBS, but it's worth a shot. You'll probably get better results than trying to go in through the front lines by voice. Msg#:12512 *GENERAL* 01/07/89 15:29:03 From: MARK BALCH To: KEN DAVIDSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 12264 (AS0.EXE AND MOTOROLA'S VERSION) Thanks. If I can't find someone here who knows what's wrong, then I'll call them in a few months. Since I have to finish my project by March 10, I have little time to start experimenting with new things. I'll just have to code it by hand. I am a beginner as far as microprocessor circuits go and I will be building a simple 8-Bit single board computer. So since I have barely started, It should take me awhile because of my lack of experience. Bye, Mark Msg#:12534 *GENERAL* 01/08/89 06:49:25 From: BILL CURLEW To: MARK BALCH (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 12163 (AS0.EXE AND MOTOROLA'S VERSION) Where are the commas between operands??? STA A,TEMP for example. Also, maybe the ASx assembler are case sensitive. Have you tried upper and lower ??. Bill Msg#:12829 *GENERAL* 01/14/89 13:22:51 From: MARK BALCH To: BILL CURLEW (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 12534 (AS0.EXE AND MOTOROLA'S VERSION) Hmmm, commas? I didn't see any in the printed source. I will try that . Sorry about the way it came out, for some reason, the lines all came together. But obviously, you were able to figure this out. I appreciate your help. Bye, Mark Msg#:12261 *GENERAL* 01/03/89 09:30:45 From: NEIL CHERRY To: MARK BALCH (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 12165 (PROTOTYPING) The only advantage I see to wire wrapping is that I can put the circuit together quickly, and modify it neatly. Also most of my wire wrap deals are neat and clean. NJC Msg#:12513 *GENERAL* 01/07/89 15:30:43 From: MARK BALCH To: NEIL CHERRY (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 12261 (PROTOTYPING) Tell me more please, because if it quick, I may just switch. How can it be quick though with that big mass of wire on one side of the board? And how can you modify something after the board is done because the wires get tangled when they criss-cross eachother. Thanks, Mark Msg#:12548 *GENERAL* 01/08/89 16:33:09 From: MATT OLSON To: MARK BALCH (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 12513 (PROTOTYPING) I would like to add my two cents on the topic of wirewrapping. I have been wirewrapping for a few years and nothing can beat prototyping with it for speed and flexibilty. Granted, the profile will be higher, but surface area can be just as compact as a soldered board if not more. A few good techniques should be followed for a good clean board. Plan the layout carefully, as should be done with any board. Use prestripped cut lengths of different colored wires, using only the length that will reach the two connections. This can eliminate the "Rats Nest". This wire can be purchased through a number of places (Digi-Key, Specialized Products). There are also a few low cost hand cut and strip type products that work quite well, although that is more time consuming. Route wires carefully. Run wire through the middle of an IC or between them, as opposed to in between their pins. Use different colored wire to identify address bus, data bus, control lines, IO ports, etc. Use wire wrap ID labels. Write part # or reference number on them. Use a "modified" type bit for your WW gun. This can eliminate broken wires at the base of the pin. I have been using the Radio Shack prototype board # 276-188 for a number of projects. This has a ground plane on the component side and individual solder pads on the back, along with an edge connector. I usually solder the pins of individual components and two or more pins of an IC to the pads so that nothing comes loose. Sprinkle a few ground and V+ pins throughout the board using a heavier gauge wire soldered to connect them. Route component connections for these to the closest pins, and avoid daisy-chaining of IC ground and V+. Of course use ample bypass and decoupling capacitors. I did have an experience with a just wrap slit and wrap type gun, in which the wire inside the insulation was being broken, but the insulation was not. This turned out to be a total nightmare and the entire board and all the labor had to be scrapped. It may have been that the gun and bit I was using were faulty or not adjusted properly, but I have not taken that chance again. Matt Msg#:12622 *GENERAL* 01/09/89 11:35:09 From: NEIL CHERRY To: MATT OLSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 12548 (PROTOTYPING) A freind of mine uses one of those guns it uses the standard teflon coat wire 30 guage and he says it works fine. But he said the gun cost $200. oh well. NJC Msg#:12624 *GENERAL* 01/09/89 11:40:56 From: NEIL CHERRY To: MARK BALCH (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 12513 (PROTOTYPING) I've also tried point to point but I like wire wrap for experiments it works and looks much neater when done. And it is all amater of preference but my first wire wrap board contained 14 I.C.'s and I got it right the first time. Definitly use different colors for power, ground, data, address, and control. NJC Msg#:12836 *GENERAL* 01/14/89 13:34:48 From: MARK BALCH To: MATT OLSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 12548 (PROTOTYPING) Whew. Thank you very much for those ideas and hints. I will fully digest that letter later and print it out on letter quality mode! Interesting ideas that you have. I am sure they will help me to make my first project easier. It looks very expenxive though. I'm gonna try using a manual wrapper for my first project because I will be giving wire wrapping a "test-run." I already have four colors of wire two for power and two for different signals. I think I'll buy a fifth color to make the signals even easier. Do those id plates work very well? If so then I'll invest in them. Bye, Mark Msg#:12837 *GENERAL* 01/14/89 13:37:37 From: MARK BALCH To: NEIL CHERRY (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 12624 (PROTOTYPING) Yes, I think I will. Here's what I'm going to use; Red and Black for power, green for data bus, yellow for the address bus, and white for misc. signals. Do you recommend buying one of those wire kits that has many pre-cut lengths in assorted colors? And do yo know of a good place to get a starter kit for wrapping? If I can't find another place, I will order from Jameco because they are very nice people and have good products (from what I have ordered from them). Thanks, Mark Msg#:12901 *GENERAL* 01/16/89 13:03:03 From: NEIL CHERRY To: MARK BALCH (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 12837 (PROTOTYPING) I never order the pre cut stuff it gets to be to much waste. Msg#:13112 *GENERAL* 01/21/89 16:51:54 From: MARK BALCH To: NEIL CHERRY (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 12901 (PROTOTYPING) Really? Why should the precut lengths be wasted? I would think that cutting your own would lead to more waste. Because the precut strips are neatly done and you can easily match up the correct length with the connection. Bye, Mark Msg#:12266 *GENERAL* 01/03/89 09:41:11 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: MARK BALCH (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 12165 (PROTOTYPING) For doing small circuits with many discrete analog parts, point-to-point wiring with a soldering iron works the best. For wiring an all-digital circuit where you have mostly socketed chips, I find wire wrapping is much faster, neater, easier to do, and easier to change. True, you end up with a board that is a little fatter, but when you want to do a lot of experimenting with a circuit before casting it in copper, it works quite well. The first cut of the BCC180 was mostly wire wrapped with solder connections to the 68-pin PLCC socket. I wouldn't have done it any other way, and when I got the first prototype PC board, the board work on the first try. Wire wrapping also works better if your soldering techniques leave your finished work looking like it was done using a blow torch. Msg#:12273 *GENERAL* 01/03/89 12:15:47 From: BOB PADDOCK To: KEN DAVIDSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 12266 (PROTOTYPING) Have you ever looked at Vero (BICC Electronics) SpeedWire stuff? It has the same addvantages as wire wrapping, but with out the thickness. I can FAX you thier blurb on it if you are interested. Msg#:12278 *GENERAL* 01/03/89 15:03:11 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: BOB PADDOCK (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 12273 (PROTOTYPING) That could be useful. I'd like to see it. One of the problems with the thickness of wire wrapping is you usually can't plug a board into a backplane without taking up several slots. My father had some sockets that could be glued onto the top of a board that had the pins bent around and sticking up on the same side of the board as the components. You couldn't fit as many parts on the board, and you had to channel the wires between the sockets, but it made a nice thin board. Msg#:12291 *GENERAL* 01/03/89 22:13:13 From: HENRY MINSKY To: BOB PADDOCK (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 12273 (PROTOTYPING) I have also found that Speedwire is the way to go for prototyping. It seems like there ought to be something better, but Speedwire seems to be the best for quick prototyping. One thing that would be a good addition would be wholespeedwire sockets. I have only seen spools of individual pins, which you have to insert in the proto board yourself. Has anyone seen preefabricated speedwire dip sockets? Msg#:12310 *GENERAL* 01/04/89 07:56:57 From: BOB PADDOCK To: KEN DAVIDSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 12278 (PROTOTYPING) With the Vero boards you can get them on .6 centers. Msg#:12311 *GENERAL* 01/04/89 08:00:29 From: BOB PADDOCK To: HENRY MINSKY (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 12291 (PROTOTYPING) I know what you mean. We make our own Speedwire boards, and buy the pins from Vero. 3 cents per pin doesn't seem like to much to you have to put 1500 of them on one board. Some one in our production department found and interesting way to install them. Insted of inserteing the pins one at a time, they insert them a row at a time, then use our metal break to press them into the PC board; sure cuts down on construction time. Msg#:12514 *GENERAL* 01/07/89 15:33:05 From: MARK BALCH To: KEN DAVIDSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 12266 (PROTOTYPING) I know that many people like it but WHY? When I start assembling and testing my board next month, I really don't want to go through several circuit boards and re-purchase tons of sockets. I'll have enough trouble debugging code to worry about the hard ware which I think I have down (in design anyway). Thanks, Mark Msg#:12515 *GENERAL* 01/07/89 15:33:48 From: MARK BALCH To: BOB PADDOCK (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 12273 (PROTOTYPING) Can you please give me their address? Vero, BICC. Thanks, Mark Msg#:12535 *GENERAL* 01/08/89 06:56:41 From: BILL CURLEW To: MARK BALCH (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 12165 (PROTOTYPING) I think Steve only gets away with soldering because God had intended him to be a brain surgion. His boards look more like works of art than proto-ware. I on the other hand, am a big bananna when it comes to point-to-point wiring. Wire wrap has allowed me to continue dabbling without excess pain. Just for some perspective, in 1975, I decided to build an ALTAIR 8800A. Since I was a poor boy at the time, I bought the manuals for $30.00 and the WIRE WRAPPED THE WHOLE SYSTEM, INCLUDING THE FRONT PANEL ASSEMBLY. Bill Msg#:12560 *GENERAL* 01/08/89 18:42:18 From: BOB PADDOCK To: MARK BALCH (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 12515 (PROTOTYPING) BICC-Vero 40 Lindeman Dr Trumbull, CT 06611 (203) 372-0038 What your intrested in is thier "Speedwire" products, here is thier introduction from thier catalog: "Speedwrite is a breaktrough in wiring technology not just in speed, ease of use and reliability-but also in offering significant savings to customers assembling electronic circuit boards in either small quantites or productions runs. Speedwire employs the well proven and widely accepted insulation displacement technique to interconnect socketed electronic compnents on a 2.54mm grid. The system compriese Speedwire terminals mounted on a circuit board to provide component sockets on one side of the board and insulating displacement terminals on the other. Using a Speedwire pen [Simaler to an OKI 'Just-Wrap' pen, but not interchangle with one], you simply push on insulated 30AWG solid conductor wire between the tines of the Speedwire terminal. The boxed design of the tines give four reliable contacts points for every connection; connections tested by an idependent British Standard Institute Test House are shown to be 0.37mOhms initial average contact resistance and changing only by 0.01mOhms average after 50 insertions [The pins/boards are reusalbe]. The tines will accept up to two wires facilitating up to four connections per terminal, i.e. each wire to and from. The component socket end of the terminal use the well tried technology of a selectively plated beryllium copper contact clip orienteated to wipe on all four faces of an IC lead-again independent test results show extermely low contact resistance with an average of less than 4mOhms even after 100 insertions. The terminal has an integral stop feature to prevent the IC lead or discrete component passing through and interfering with the wiring side. Benefits of Speedwire conpared with conventional point-to-point wiring systems: The daisy chain principle of Speedwire is far less time consuming than the on/off principle of wire wrap [There are wire wrap metheds that alow daisy chaining;; like Oki's Just-Wrap tool.] This together with no wire stripping and less wire cutting reduces production costs [ and your time ]. Even greater savings apply when compared to discrete soldering. Further time savings are achieved when preparing wiring schedules. Simple daisy chain listings are all that is needed for Speedwire compared with the more complicated level 1 and level 2, point-to-point stringing schedules of wire wrapping. Increased card fram packing density: Speedwire offers a 0.325" (8.25mm) space saving on the wiring side [compared to wire-wrap].... An additional benefit is that in common applications of 0.6" a Speedwire interconnected board can replace a printed cicuit board on a one-to-one basis [Almost imposable whit wire-wrap because of the size.]" I've gone from point-to-point soldering, to wire-wraping, to Speedwire. Speedwire is abit more expensive than wire-wraping (figure about 3 cents per conection pin), but for me the expens is offset in time saveings. You not only have to compare the costs (point-to-point soldering is by far the cheepest) but also how much you value your time. Time is short and not recoverable (so far)....... Msg#:12587 *GENERAL* 01/09/89 08:44:39 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: MARK BALCH (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 12514 (PROTOTYPING) Well, I think I gave several reasons, but for me, wire-wrapping is faster, neater, and easier to change when I'm dealing with mostly socketed ICs. You don't have to worry about melting all the wires around a connection when things get tight. Msg#:12717 *GENERAL* 01/11/89 23:40:50 From: HENRY MINSKY To: BOB PADDOCK (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 12311 (PROTOTYPING) Egad, what kind of board do you make which has 1500 speedwire terminals in it?? Msg#:12734 *GENERAL* 01/12/89 07:20:10 From: BOB PADDOCK To: HENRY MINSKY (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 12717 (PROTOTYPING) The company that I work for has a standerd PC board that is fully populated with pins, for our prototyping work. Protoing some thing like a 68070 can easaly take up all of the board area, but not nessasaraly all of the pins. It is quiker to use the fully populated board than to take the time to insert the just the pins that you need. If I were to build some thing for my self, I probably would just insert the needed pins to keep the cost down. Msg#:12834 *GENERAL* 01/14/89 13:27:06 From: MARK BALCH To: BILL CURLEW (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 12535 (PROTOTYPING) I'll try wrapping I think. Many have expressed positive views on it. Hmmm...Steve a brain surgeon? Bye, Mark Msg#:12839 *GENERAL* 01/14/89 13:40:40 From: MARK BALCH To: BOB PADDOCK (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 12560 (PROTOTYPING) It sounds very impresive, but for me money is a big object. I can't go overboard especially since I am just testing wire wrapping. Mabye in a year after I have gotten comfortable with wrapping, I'll take a look at the Speedwire version. But aside from Speedwire, would you say that wrapping is the best way to prototype? In terms or ease of use and speed. Thanks alot, Mark Msg#:12840 *GENERAL* 01/14/89 13:42:30 From: MARK BALCH To: KEN DAVIDSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 12587 (PROTOTYPING) After all of the votes for wrapping, I am going to have to try it! And like it! From what I have heard it sounds GREAT, but I'll have to try it myself first. Is it really easy to modify a connection? It always looked hard because of the turns of the wire and the layers. What do your boards look like when you finish them? Thanks,, Mark Msg#:12877 *GENERAL* 01/15/89 15:33:19 From: BOB PADDOCK To: MARK BALCH (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 12839 (PROTOTYPING) Wire Wrapping is great for digital projects, but for any thing that has a lot of analog commponet it can be a cures. You have to solder some type of wrapable pin to the componet so you can use your wire wrap tool on it, so you are just as far a head to solder the wire in the first place. Don't use wire wrap wire for your power bus. Use some thing like at least 22 gage wire for a bus, then run power to your sockets using your red & black wire wrap wire from these busses. (Some thing I learned the hard way!) Msg#:12893 *GENERAL* 01/16/89 09:02:48 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: MARK BALCH (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 12840 (PROTOTYPING) As long as you try to keep it to a limit of two wraps per pin, you won't end up with countless layers to unwrap should you want to move the connection on the bottom of the pin. And as long as you cut the wires close to their proper length, you won't end up with a board that looks like a rat's nest. Don't cut the wires so short that they are like guitar strings once you're done stretching them to make the connection, but don't leave so much extra that you have to route it three times around the board to take up the slack. Even though the finished board may look like a mess of wires going everywhere, it's actually very easy to trace a wire to make sure you have a proper connection. Just use a pair of pointed tweezers and you can easily follow any wire through its entire path. Msg#:13018 *GENERAL* 01/19/89 13:52:32 From: BILL CURLEW To: MARK BALCH (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 12834 (PROTOTYPING) Hi, On the subject of "kits" with different wire lengths. I have found that wrapping goes MUCH QUICKER if you have pre-stripped lengths available, but the commercially pre-cut stuff is too darned expensive for me. What I did was to figure out the 3-4 common sizes I use most often. Then I took some of those DIP carriers (the plastic U shaped things), and cut them to size. I take the spooled kynar wire and wrap it around the form, cut the ends, and strip the resultant wires. Usually, I make up a bunch after designing the circuit I'm going to build, and fill in as needed. Bill Msg#:13110 *GENERAL* 01/21/89 16:47:07 From: MARK BALCH To: BOB PADDOCK (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 12877 (PROTOTYPING) That brings up a question I had, but you answered it for me. I was not sure how to wire wrap a resistor, crystal or something like that. The only way is to use the wore wrapping posts? Ah, well. I don't see how you could get around that because of decoupling caps, crystals and a few other discretes. Some one else told me about the power bus wiring also. Could I do it like this: secure some posts around the board, each one near several ICs and then run 22AWG wire to each post from the board's main power connectors. I would of course have to solder the 22AWG wire to each post. Bye, Mark Msg#:13111 *GENERAL* 01/21/89 16:50:42 From: MARK BALCH To: KEN DAVIDSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 12893 (PROTOTYPING) Thanks. You made it sound very nice and orderly. I hope it will be for me! I ordered some inexpensive wrapping equipment to get started with and it I find it very good, then I'll invest more into wire wrapping. Is it very hard to limit two levels per pin? What do you do for signals that go to many chips (ie R/W line goes from one pin to many other pins)? I would assume that posts are the solution, but then I'll have to use a huge board. I need help... Bye, Mark Msg#:13113 *GENERAL* 01/21/89 16:54:34 From: MARK BALCH To: BILL CURLEW (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 13018 (PROTOTYPING) Sounds like a good idea to me. I have lots of carriers lying around It would get a little tiring to do that, but it would cut costs. And cutting costs is what I need because I am not a professional (yet). Since I haven't started wrapping, I haven't paid attention to the prices of these kits. When I get comfurtable with wrapping, then I' I'll see what to do. Thanks for the tip! Bye, Mark Msg#:13171 *GENERAL* 01/23/89 09:07:52 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: MARK BALCH (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 13111 (PROTOTYPING) Limiting wraps to two per pin isn't all that tough. Since most connections are just from one point to another, they aren't an issue. Signals like R/W or data lines that go to multiple points can be daisy-chained around the board. The only time you don't want to daisy-chain is with the power and ground connections. Signal connections are OK, though. Msg#:13187 *GENERAL* 01/23/89 12:10:02 From: BOB PADDOCK To: MARK BALCH (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 13110 (PROTOTYPING) That is the way I've done it. So far no problems because of it. Msg#:13189 *GENERAL* 01/23/89 12:18:37 From: BOB PADDOCK To: MARK BALCH (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 13111 (PROTOTYPING) Have you ever looked at OK's "Just-Wrap" tool? With it you don't have to cut or strip the wires (it uses insulation-displacment), and you can daisy chain till you run out of wire, so 'levels' become a moot point. Msg#:13226 *GENERAL* 01/24/89 09:03:07 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: BOB PADDOCK (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 13189 (PROTOTYPING) In my opinion, recommending "Just Wrap" to someone just starting out is a cruel joke. I've heard so many horror stories about how unreliable the connections are with that that I wouldn't touch it with a ten-foot pole. Why save a little time and money on the tools and wiring when you end up spending twice as much time tracking down bad connections? Msg#:13235 *GENERAL* 01/24/89 12:02:23 From: BOB PADDOCK To: KEN DAVIDSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 13226 (PROTOTYPING) Ask the people that complained if they were using gold-plated sockets. To get good conections you must use good quality sockets, but NOT ones that are gold-plated. The gold is to soft for the insulation to get displace, insted the gold gets displaced. So you end with some thing that looks ok, but what you realy have is insulated wire wraped around your socket, which of cource does not work to well. I know of what you speak, sence I had it happen to me, but once you use sockets that match the tool every thing goes fine. Msg#:13240 *GENERAL* 01/24/89 15:36:37 From: BILL CURLEW To: KEN DAVIDSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 13226 (PROTOTYPING) Hi, I tried the just wrap and slit-and-wrap tools on ALL kinds of w/w sockets and had ikky results. Bill Msg#:13337 *GENERAL* 01/27/89 00:04:04 From: FRANK HENRIQUEZ To: BILL CURLEW (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 13240 (PROTOTYPING) I wouldn't recommend slit and wrap for ANYTHING. I've tried it with a wide variety of sockets and wire coatings, and it just isn't reliable - I did a 256K board with a just wrap tool, and ended up with at least 20% bad wraps... I ended up melting through the insulation and soldering the wires directly to the socket pin. I use a combination of wire-wrap (I use a manual tool, with a wrapping bit on one end, a wire stripper in the m and an unwrapping bit on the other end - costs around $9) and point to point soldering for bus connections, power supply and ground connections and all of the bypass caps (you can (almost) never use too many 0.1uf caps!) and I wire wrap everything else. It also helps to make a wire list before hand with all the connections that will be required for each IC pin. The wire wrap socket labels with pin numbers on them help a lot, too. I've wrapped a few ic's the wrong way more than once... Msg#:13400 *GENERAL* 01/28/89 13:11:07 From: MARK BALCH To: KEN DAVIDSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 13171 (PROTOTYPING) Oh, so besides power busses, daisy-chaining is the way to wire the board? That should make things easier. I'm still waiting for that damn starter kit that I ordered two weeks ago. My next order will be on very high proiority so that I will receive it the next day or next two days. I can;t wait this long to start... Thanks, Mark Msg#:13401 *GENERAL* 01/28/89 13:11:43 From: MARK BALCH To: BOB PADDOCK (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 13187 (PROTOTYPING) Thanks. Msg#:13402 *GENERAL* 01/28/89 13:13:19 From: MARK BALCH To: BOB PADDOCK (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 13189 (PROTOTYPING) Yes, I have seen it but one problem: money. I am just starting to wire wrap and I haven't even tried it yet! The vendor that I bought the starter kit from still hasn't sent me the stuff. When I get used to wrapping, then I'll look into an expensive tool, but till then I'm gonna look before I jump. Bye, Mark Msg#:12503 *GENERAL* 01/07/89 14:09:38 From: RON LEBLANC To: MARK BALCH (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 11923 (PROTOTYPING) A little background. I have been designing and prototyping microprocessor based systems since early 1974. The first computer I built was an 8008 based unit. Since then I have prototyped four or five dozen micro-based systems. In short, I've been doing it a while and know whatof I speak. Everyone of those projects except three were all wire-wraped. You will find, and already have from what I can see of the other messages posted here, that there are two camps on what method to use. I use Vector perf board as a base, Vector bus strips for running power, T49 pins for mounting resistors, caps. etc., and J pins for test points and power connections. And of coarse, wire-wrap sockets for ICs. The address for Vector is: VECTOR ELECTRONIC COMPANY 12460 Gladstone Ave. P.O. Box 4336 Sylmar, CA 91342-0336 (818) 365-9661 Call them, they will send you a catalog full of tools, sockets, plug boards etc. No I'm not associated with them in any way except as a long time customer. I believe if someone makes a good product you ought to tell others about it. Why wire-wrap? I have found wire-wrapping to produce the cleanest, neatest, and most well behaved prototypes.(Less crosstalk, much cleaner power). It is fast! At least for me much faster than point to point soldering. It is very easy to modify. Connections are made at 20 or more points and therefore you don't get loose connections a la cold solder joint. It takes all of about 10 minutes to learn to do correctly. As to why commercial companies wire-wrap: 1) The connections are good for 20 + years. (Hint, the black corrosion on the exterior of the wire after a time DOES NOT have any effect. The connections are made between the pin corners and the wire, they are very gas tight and corrosion resistant.) 2) Ever try to design a really complex project and wire the prototype point-to-point with solder??? What a mess!!! Try making a significant modification to that!!! (By the way, Bell Labs has done extensive testing on this. Solder connections are only good for 8 or so years.) I know, who's going to keep a project for twenty years? That's not the point. The point is the connections are much more reliable. Bad points? As always, there are some. Extra cost is a big one. Wire-wrap sockets are not cheap. If you or anyone else would like to discuss this at lenght, give me a call at (603) 886-1876, or write to P.O. Box 1108, Nashua, New Hampshire 03061-1108. Its taking too much room here. -----------Ron - High priest and defender of wire-wrap. Msg#:12516 *GENERAL* 01/07/89 15:40:07 From: MARK BALCH To: RON LEBLANC (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 12503 (PROTOTYPING) Thanks alot for your help. You have thouroughly answered my question. WHile I can't call you because of my phone bills, I will write you a letter and at least we can keep this up through the mail. Thanks for that offer. I already have Vector's catalog and have seen some of their stuff. One thing I don't like - their boards are very expensive. I'll check their wire-wrap equipment. So do you think I should buy a cheap wire-wrap starter set and some sockets and wrap a "dummy" board to see if I like it? Thanks again, Mark Msg#:12541 *GENERAL* 01/08/89 12:02:58 From: RON LEBLANC To: MARK BALCH (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 12516 (PROTOTYPING) You should rarely take anyones word as the absolute answer to anything. Yes, by all means, experiment with wire-wrapping. There are some relatively inexpensive hand wrapping and unwrapping tools made by a company called OKI. These should not cost more than 5 to 10 dollars each. The only other thing you need are wire-wrap sockets and a set of wire-strippers. I would suggest that you get some wire strippers call T strippers. These are simple, cost less than $10 and work just fine. Forget spending any large amounts until you get the "feel" of wire-wrapping. You may or may not like it. Oh, you'll of course need some wire-wrapping wire. Get at least three 100' rolls, one red for + power voltages, one black for ground connections, and another white for signal connections. You will find color coding the connections very useful when tracing the wiring. I always wire all of the power connections first and then procede and do the signal wiring. Strip about 1" of insulation off the end of the wire. This will give you a good four to five complete turns about the pin. Use what is called a modified wraping tool if you have a choice. The modified wrap puts about one turn of insulated wire about the pin at the top of the connection. I have found this to make the best connections. Finally, do try to do another project using the point-to-point wire and solder method. You can then compare the two for yourself. I much prefer wire-wrapping, but not all people do. Experiment!!! That's what its all about isn't it? ---Ron Msg#:12835 *GENERAL* 01/14/89 13:30:00 From: MARK BALCH To: RON LEBLANC (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 12541 (PROTOTYPING) Thank you for the pep talk/information. You probably got my letter by now or in a few days. I am going to order a kit from Jameco (probably) in a week or two and see how things go. I already have three spools of 50' wire (I think 50') they are red, black (power), green and yellow (signals). Oh, I also have a good stripper. Bye, Mark Msg#:13516 *GENERAL* 01/30/89 14:44:52 From: TIMOTHY TAYLOR To: MARK BALCH (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 11923 (PROTOTYPING) I've used the enamel coated wire for years and have found it to be extremley reliable for wire wrapping. No need to strip and lends itself well to daisey chaining. I have one of the "Just Wrap" tools and have found it to be very un-reliable. I still use it, but keep it loaded with the enamel wire. Msg#:13568 *GENERAL* 01/31/89 23:08:09 From: MARK BALCH To: TIMOTHY TAYLOR (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 13516 (PROTOTYPING) What is enamel wire? How can you not strip it and still have a connection. I would think that the enamel gets in the way of the wire and terminal. I have started wrapping with a 10.95 manual tool and I am having alot of success and fun with it. After my project is finished (my first computer project!), in about a month and a half, I'll look into a more complex tol, but for now, I'll stay with manual to keep things simple. Thanks, Mark Msg#:13613 *GENERAL* 02/01/89 17:10:02 From: TIMOTHY TAYLOR To: MARK BALCH (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 13568 (PROTOTYPING) I should have said enamel coated wire. It's the stuff that they use to make transformers and coils out of. When you wrap the enamel coated wire around the wire-wrap post, the enamel insulation kind of cracks and breaks away from the wire, leaving a real nice connection. I have yet to experience a faulty wrap using this technique. The only thing that you have to watch out for when using this type of wire is to be careful when routing the wire around another post. If you take the corner too sharp and push the coated wire into the post, a short can develope. I've had this happen to me a couple of times. As long as your a bit careful, there's nothing to worry about. Good luck with your project. Msg#:13740 *GENERAL* 02/04/89 10:02:50 From: MARK BALCH To: TIMOTHY TAYLOR (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 13613 (PROTOTYPING) Sounds intreesting. When I finish my current project with standard wire and a regular modified tool, I'll begin to look into more advanced wire-wrapping techniques. I juts don't want to get to complicated for my first wrap project. 'Will look into it though. Bye, Mark Msg#:12263 *GENERAL* 01/03/89 09:33:12 From: NEIL CHERRY To: MARK BALCH (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 12167 (DISK DRIVE DATA WANTED) Not to throw a wrench in the works but I think you'll find that you will be better off checking the computer shopper for used drives. The apple franklin drives were 35 track drives and only single density or weird apple density. NJC Msg#:12517 *GENERAL* 01/07/89 15:41:41 From: MARK BALCH To: NEIL CHERRY (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 12263 (DISK DRIVE DATA WANTED) Thanks for the sad news. I was thinking that I really couldn't use them for much because from what little I knew about Apple DOS, I knew that it was completelydifferent from IBM or "standard" drive formats. Bye, Mark Msg#:12275 *GENERAL* 01/03/89 12:43:54 From: DAVID K. MERRIMAN To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: BUFFER Are you planning, or have in the works, a stripped down version of the SmartSpooler- in other words, just a basic dumb serial buffer; say in the range of 64-256K? I don't need the copy functions, serial/parallel conversions, etc, in the SmartSpooler- I'm just looking for a simple buffer that will let me 'dump' serial data (text, plots, etc) to a serial device, and free up my computer a little faster. About the only things I would need on it would be an On/Off switch, maybe a display of remaining memory, and the ability to set different baud rates for the input and output, and perhaps a little protocol/handshaking adjustment. Msg#:12279 *GENERAL* 01/03/89 15:10:50 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: DAVID K. MERRIMAN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 12275 (BUFFER) What you've just described as your "stripped down" version of the SmartSpooler would cost just about as much as a full-blown version. Software features cost nothing from a production standpoint. You still need the same amount of hardware on the board regardless of whether the copy function is included. You might save a little by not including the parallel ports, but not much (a few dollars tops). I don't think you'll see variations of the SmartSpooler available any time soon. Msg#:12317 *GENERAL* 01/04/89 09:11:19 From: STEVE CIARCIA To: DAVID K. MERRIMAN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 12279 (BUFFER) The Smartspooler hardware supports either 64K or 256K DRAMs as it is. HOWEVER, the SMARTSPOOLER SOFTWARE only knows how to use 256K DRAMs. --Steve Msg#:12281 *GENERAL* 01/03/89 16:19:28 From: T NGUYEN To: JEFF BACHIOCHI,NATHAN ENGLE,MARK PAYTON, ALL Subj: H.D. I am verry appreciated and thanks for your help. Somehow I still want to write a hard disk lock program to protect my hard disk. So I would like to known anyone known how the FDISK.COM work ? How does it make the sys- tem accept hard disk ? How does it remove the partition or add it in ? To MARK PAYTON I would like to down load your PCLOCK.ARC from file directory, please let me known when I can do it thanks. Msg#:12306 *GENERAL* 01/04/89 03:49:43 From: NATHAN ENGLE To: T NGUYEN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 12281 (H.D.) Ok, I couldn't talk you out of it. I have heard the standard informal stuff on FDISK. Here's more or less what I've heard. Your drive gets a "media descriptor block" set up usually in low level formating. This just IDs the drive parameters for the disk drivers. After low level format you run FDISK. One of the things FDISK does is to create a new partition block and that's what you do with a low level formatted drive. This is a higher level of information that describes how much of the disk each different operating system or each data area is going to take up. You just assign a number of tracks to each. Now I think you may be able to use FDISK to delete your DOS partition, and then go in later and recreate it with the exact same size and have the data come back. Maybe. Backup your disk before you try anything. If that works it would prevent your kids from getting in because DOS probably wouldn't recognise it anymore. You could go farther still, and write a routine that reads the file allocation tables on your disk, reads them again, compares, stores it on a floppy, reads it back and compares again (make absolutely sure you save it correctly), and then wipe the FAT on the hard disk. That would keep the kids out. Then you could go back later and copy the tables back into the same sectors you copied them from. Msg#:12323 *GENERAL* 01/04/89 09:43:28 From: MARK PAYTON To: T NGUYEN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 12281 (H.D.) T NGUYEN, As I understand the way this board operates, you should have received a message when you read the mail giving you the option of downloading the file immediately. I attached it to the E-Mail. You might ask the sysop if it is still in the system, since I didn't upload it into a file area directly. If it is not around, leave me a message and I will re-upload it. Mark Msg#:12379 *GENERAL* 01/05/89 10:03:42 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: MARK PAYTON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 12323 (H.D.) The mail message is still there, but there is no file attached. You'll either have to try again or upload it to the regular files area. Msg#:12595 *GENERAL* 01/09/89 09:07:47 From: MARK PAYTON To: KEN DAVIDSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 12379 (H.D.) Ok, I'll dig up the file and reupload it. Thanks for letting me know. Msg#:12293 *GENERAL* 01/03/89 23:12:55 From: MICHAEL DERRICK To: ANYONE Subj: DOWNLOADING PROGRAMS I can't seem to download or examin any programs. I am real new at modems, and could use some hints or HELP in making this thing work. I am not really sure how I got this far. Hope to here from someone. Msg#:12296 *GENERAL* 01/03/89 23:30:55 From: JAMES CHRISTOPHER To: NATHAN ENGLE (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 12139 (S-100) Nathan, Well I like to tinker! I just ripped apart an old INFOREX multiuser data entry computer. It wasn't any use together but now i have TONS of scarp parts .. two 68000 chips , about 1 meg of memory, a 40 meg hard drive , an 8" floppy, several feet of ribbon cable and lots of misc. IC and what not. Even a streaming tape drive, and a nice powersupply. I paid seven bucks for it!. My bedroom is filled with this junk and I get yelled at a lot from my mother. My applications specificaly... well I can't really say. since my IMSAI does not work yet and I am trying to get it to work and I guess that's the challenge of it all. I need the experince with electronics so this is a good chance at that. I don't know why I got into S-100 computers I guess I saw an article in an OLD BYTE about s-100 equipment and decided to look into it. I finaly found a system I could afford. An IMSAI 8080 with an 8080 processor, and 88k of memory and a polymorphic video card. I hope I can get this thing running soon ...... I never worked with CPM hmm I want to experience the full horror of it all! Maybe soon if it will work on this thing (IMSAI) then maybe I can run a 68k system with OS-9 or concurrent dos or whatever works with it! James Msg#:12318 *GENERAL* 01/04/89 09:13:33 From: NEIL CHERRY To: JAMES CHRISTOPHER (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 12296 (S-100) If you go over to OS9 try the PT68K computer with OS9. I just purchased 1 and it runs very nicely. The total price should come to about $1800 including OS9 a C compiler and all the manuals you'll need to learn the operating system. The board I have cost 200 and is just enough to get up with a tiny basic and monitor. If you want any more info I'll get the address and you can can Peripheral Technologies. The advetised in the last Circuit Cellar. NJC Msg#:12331 *GENERAL* 01/04/89 14:08:46 From: JOHN MEALEY III To: JAMES CHRISTOPHER (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 12296 (S-100) Hmmmm, The Whole Horror of it all. I tried that once, my shrink (Who makes more per hour than most folks I know) told me to give it up. But anyway, I shipped Jeff Jensen an old 8080 with all of the toggle switches etc. Alot of manuals too. He may be in a good enough mood to zerox some of the manuals etc. You may have better luck converting the unterminated S-100 board so that newer boards can work on it. It will get very frustrating trying to get reasonably useful software to work on the old girl, but I wish you luck. Most parts/surplus places I called when I had the s-100 laughed when I asked for boards & parts. BUT DO NOT DISPAIR, through hard work and sweat equity you'l learn. (Did I say that?) -Mealey Msg#:12423 *GENERAL* 01/05/89 22:09:21 From: JAMES CHRISTOPHER To: NEIL CHERRY (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 12318 (S-100) hmm I have read about the PT 68k computer I was interested it. But alas I am but a poor college student.. But please send me the address I do have a birthday coming up! (parents hint hint) James Msg#:12425 *GENERAL* 01/05/89 22:14:58 From: JAMES CHRISTOPHER To: JOHN MEALEY III (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 12331 (S-100) John, thanks I will not give up! I know if I do not get this one running. Due to whatever it may be. I may still hunt down a Compu-Pro machine that's realtively cheap and that works for sure. My IMSAI works but (It reads and writes to memory according to the front panel). Who knows I may reaplce the mother board with a more up to date one and keep the front panel just for looks! If by any chance you notice or come accross any S-100 info products etc (ANYTHING!!) let me know.. Any info would be of grat assistance. Computer Shopper is letting me down .... there S-100 bus classifieds are getting smaller while the IBM clone "Freeware and Software discounts" are getting bigger.. and for what??!!! Strip poker and wierd file utilities! ack! James Msg#:12438 *GENERAL* 01/06/89 06:10:15 From: NATHAN ENGLE To: JAMES CHRISTOPHER (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 12423 (S-100) Ok, best of luck to you. I'm sure you'll learn more than you ever wanted to know about S-100 (no harm in that). Do you have a scope (or can you borrow or get access to one)? When I got into project building really seriously last year I went out and got one of those 'trading-post' type classified ad papers and looked under miscellaneous electronic equipment, and there I found an old Tek T932 oscilloscope in fairly good condition for only $150. If you can find a similar deal jump on it! It may seem extravagant but it will save you a lot of time and show you a lot of things that are going on in your machine. After all, if, once you've made sure you have power and everything is connected, if you've done all that and it still doesn't work, it helps to have something else you can do to see what is going on. Logic probes can be helpful, but they don't show you waveforms. Cheerio. Nate Msg#:12451 *GENERAL* 01/06/89 14:02:54 From: JOHN MEALEY III To: JAMES CHRISTOPHER (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 12425 (S-100) I have had to do a lot of soul searching as to why I want to work with computers, and what I want to do with them. The S-100 stuff will/would be a good learning experience for anyone interested in how the "Hardware works" end. For me, I am trying to get away from playing with the machines, and start using them for every day stuff. Having a balanced checkbook. It has been said that if you cannot balance your checkbook on paper, a computer will only make things worse. Not so. I've had my check book balanced for three weeks on a simple spreadsheet and I like it. It is simpler for me now to do it on the computer versus the checkbook. Could I do that with a S-100 system? Yes. But I would have a much harder time of it. I have settled into a "Use a '286 for meanial tasks and wordprocessing, and look at other small controllers for home control, weather stuff, and heating/A-C control". Notice I did not say IBM. I do not like 'em. There stone age ideas cost the computer arena about 5 to 8 years on development of newer chips and machines. Standard yes, but even that standard had to be modified for more pig style memory. Learn about computers & Electronics though the study of the S-100, but to produce things you & your family/work/business depend on, do it with stuff you can get more of if it breaks. I will keep my eye out for S-100 stuff, and if it looks reasonable & leave you a note here w/info. -Mealey Msg#:12574 *GENERAL* 01/09/89 00:54:48 From: JAMES CHRISTOPHER To: JOHN MEALEY III (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 12451 (S-100) Thanks! I'm going to use my S-100 in my future possible research in a few years, as I am majoring in Physics. Eventually I want to upgrade the S-100 system up to a 32 bit machine. I know there is something you can do now to make S-100 systems 32 bit ( they are primarily 8 and 16 bit machines(I'm sure you know this)) I want to use the S-100 as a number cruncher in the future. Something to work on math problems while I can use my clone (286) which I hope to get soon, for other things. I have foudn 386 boards and 68020 boards for pretty good prices compared to the MAC // and other 386 pc clones. James Msg#:12618 *GENERAL* 01/09/89 11:28:55 From: NEIL CHERRY To: JAMES CHRISTOPHER (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 12423 (S-100) James as soon as I remember to bring the address I'll post it, if you've got the most recent Cink mag then you'll find it in there. NJC Msg#:12638 *GENERAL* 01/09/89 18:23:11 From: KENT CEDOLA To: JAMES CHRISTOPHER (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 12574 (S-100) If you need number crunching, get a TransComputer board (4 T800, 10 mips each) for you AT. Msg#:12703 *GENERAL* 01/11/89 14:47:23 From: JAMES CHRISTOPHER To: NEIL CHERRY (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 12618 (S-100) O.k. I'll have to hunt the latest issue down I don't subscribe yet. But I will try and find the latest. There very hard to find here in the Milwaukee area. Hmm OR post it here... Msg#:12298 *GENERAL* 01/03/89 23:50:01 From: JAMES CHRISTOPHER To: DAVID LAGERGREN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 12121 (S-100) Dave, thanks! let me know the poop thanks again James p.s. Msg#:12305 *GENERAL* 01/04/89 03:28:41 From: NATHAN ENGLE To: JAMES CHRISTOPHER (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 12298 (S-100) I missed the whole s100/CPM era. I knew it was happening but I was living in a condition of poverty at the time. It ought to be a challenge. I would advise looking through a lot of old BYTE's just to make a list of everything in them (at least by article) that pertains to S100. You might want to just try to get the 68K card going right away. I seem to remember a company called Blue Streak or Blue Flame (something like that, check advertisers indexes for something like that) and they made all kinds of coprocessor boards, both for S100 and for PCs (so that those people who are lonely for CPM can run their old programs on their new PC). I've never used CPM or OS9 but from what I've heard os9 is about 1000 times more sophistocated than CPM. You seem to have the urge to find out just what CPM really is but maybe you should just read about it first before deciding to go with it. With many people just reading about horrors is enough :) Msg#:12332 *GENERAL* 01/04/89 14:17:53 From: DAVID LAGERGREN To: JAMES CHRISTOPHER (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 12298 (S-100) Jim The boards I have are made by TELETEK they are their SYSTEM MASTER boards. They have 64K ram, a Z-80A processor, etc. I have two of them. It appears the system proms are not the original, but i will see if I can find them around here somewhere. I may have the manuals also. If you are still interested, let me know. (Maybe TELETEK is still in business and they can help?) ----------------Dave Msg#:12422 *GENERAL* 01/05/89 22:06:51 From: JAMES CHRISTOPHER To: NATHAN ENGLE (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 12305 (S-100) Thanks. I get a magazine called supermicro(it used to be S-100 journal) I have been paging through some old BYTEs and heh I wish alot of those companies were still in business! I am going to try a place called S-100 bus. They used to seel all sorts of S-100 related products. I do not think that they sell anymore well we'll see! I have a few books on CP/M so I think I am still going to go for it! James Msg#:12426 *GENERAL* 01/05/89 22:16:51 From: JAMES CHRISTOPHER To: DAVID LAGERGREN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 12332 (S-100) Dave, I am definetly interested in them. Just let me know if you find them and get back to me whenever it's convienent thanks! James Msg#:12328 *GENERAL* 01/04/89 13:04:09 From: DANNY LAMB To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: SP1000 How about a new project using th sp1000 or a newer chip for a stand alone system that could send a token for the word to a serial port. This would allow a ez interface to a home control computer or any other system. Msg#:12375 *GENERAL* 01/05/89 09:32:10 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: DANNY LAMB (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 12328 (SP1000) Forget voice recognition. We were burned by it once and, personally, I'd rather not get involved with it again. The current technology is still far too crude for what most people want. It seems everyone wants a speaker-independent system with a 1000-word vocabulary for under $200, and that just ain't gonna happen anytime soon. The best the SP1000 can do is a speaker-dependent system (it must be trained by who is going to use it, the person must speak each word the same way each time, and it can't tolerate background room noise) with a 16- to 32-word vocabulary and perhaps 90% accuracy under the best of conditions. Plus the chip needs a *ton* of software to work. We haven't seen any chips newer than the SP1000 come through here since the original Lis'ner project. At the time we were working on the project, we had a serial-based box from Votan (I think) that worked quite well in a speaker-dependent situation. It cost several thousand dollars, though, and I doubt anything better has been developed since then. Msg#:12419 *GENERAL* 01/05/89 19:28:57 From: DANNY LAMB To: KEN DAVIDSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 12375 (SP1000) Thanks for the info. I want a 32 to 64 word speaker dependant system I will try to work with the sp1000. Is the chip still avaiable I have one but if I get the system I want to work I will need more any how thanks maybe some day technology will reach our desires. Msg#:12456 *GENERAL* 01/06/89 15:17:54 From: STEVE CIARCIA To: DANNY LAMB (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 12419 (SP1000) Buy a used Apple II and stick a Lisner board in it. Use the whole system as a dedicated speech recognition peripheral. It will be cheaper than designing a new one. I assure you (unless you put no value on your time). --Steve Msg#:12333 *GENERAL* 01/04/89 14:28:25 From: JODY WOODCOCK To: ALL Subj: GPS there is a book available in canada on golabal pos satel. I am just now ordering it so I do not have any info on how good it is. To those who are interested the address is as follows. Canadian GPS Associates Box 3184 Postal Station B Fredricton, New Brunswick E3A 5G9 the book is Guide to GPS positioning and is 600 pages long. The price is 30.00 dollars us and 35.00 can. -Jody- Msg#:12662 *GENERAL* 01/10/89 20:01:50 From: DAVE EWEN To: JODY WOODCOCK (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 12333 (GPS) I am somewhat interested. I hope 'golabal pos satel' does not mean the book is written by a Quebec Frenchman. Msg#:12853 *GENERAL* 01/14/89 14:08:14 From: JODY WOODCOCK To: DAVE EWEN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 12662 (GPS) No I don't think so. sorry about the spelling -jody- Msg#:12923 *GENERAL* 01/16/89 20:25:48 From: DAVE EWEN To: JODY WOODCOCK (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 12853 (GPS) Sounds like a bargain if it is readable. Do you know anything much about GPS? All I know is that it is not a simple system, but that it can be very very accurate. Msg#:12984 *GENERAL* 01/18/89 13:09:59 From: JODY WOODCOCK To: DAVE EWEN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 12923 (GPS) No, I do not know much at this time. Like you I have heard that it is very accurate. I believe that there will be various levels of accuracy. The most accurate level will be encrypted for use by the military. I have heard that at this level they are planning + - 3 meters error when the complete system is up. Will keep advised. Msg#:13051 *GENERAL* 01/20/89 07:31:01 From: DAVE EWEN To: JODY WOODCOCK (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 12984 (GPS) Thank you. Msg#:12336 *GENERAL* 01/04/89 14:57:32 From: MARK PAYTON To: JAMES CHRISTOPHER (Rcvd) Subj: S100 BUS MACHINES I'm interested in S-100 bus computers, too, but with probably even less electronics experience than you. :) I have an Altair 8800b which I am trying to get running, but have no idea where to get system software or manuals to tell me what I need to connect how. Any ideas? Maybe we could share some S-100 ideas. Mark Msg#:12337 *GENERAL* 01/04/89 14:58:25 From: MARK PAYTON To: ALL Subj: PROJECT SUGGESTIONS? My wife and I are discussing our housing options, and one that is increasingly gaining favor is to build. I'm interested in the opinions of you folks regarding what wiring/systems/etc. are *must have* that we should consider in drawing up plans. I'm as green as they come when it comes to electronics (I'm a long time software type, but even there I program in relatively high level languages, though I can read C and 80X86 ASM). Nevertheless, I'm here because I want to learn and a project like this might provide some interesting practice. So, what should I consider building right into the house plans? What does your dream house contain in the way of electronic controls? Mark Msg#:12377 *GENERAL* 01/05/89 09:40:12 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: MARK PAYTON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 12337 (PROJECT SUGGESTIONS?) I would run coax and a few twisted pairs to each room. The upcoming Consumer Electronics Bus (CEBus) spec that the EIA is doing has specs for communication between devices using power lines, coax, twisted pair, RF, and IR. If it catches on and we start seeing devices using the spec, running coax and twisted pair should prepare you quite nicely for it. If it doesn't catch on, you can run most LANs using the twisted pair, or if you want to get real expensive and into Ethernet, you can use the coax. By the way, we hope to have a lot more on CEBus in INK during 1989. Msg#:12388 *GENERAL* 01/05/89 12:11:13 From: STEVE CIARCIA To: MARK PAYTON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 12337 (PROJECT SUGGESTIONS?) Another reason to run twisted pair is a project that Ed, Jeff, Ken, and I are cooking up. We have a small RS-485 controller in the works with net software. --Steve Msg#:12593 *GENERAL* 01/09/89 09:06:03 From: MARK PAYTON To: KEN DAVIDSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 12377 (PROJECT SUGGESTIONS?) Thanks, Ken. Would you suggest running the cables all to a central box so that I could control the connections more easily? Msg#:12594 *GENERAL* 01/09/89 09:07:16 From: MARK PAYTON To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 12388 (PROJECT SUGGESTIONS?) Thanks for the input, Steve. I'll look for the projects in the magazine. I don't think my wife realizes it yet, but I'd love the have several of my computers networked together.... :-) Msg#:12606 *GENERAL* 01/09/89 09:59:36 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: MARK PAYTON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 12593 (PROJECT SUGGESTIONS?) Ideally you'd have a single piece of wire that runs through the entire house and is terminated at each end. The CEBus stuff is like Ethernet where all the devices sit on the same wire and contend for who's going to talk next. If you have other ideas about how you'd want to hook things up, then you might want to run separate wires from each room to a central location, but that may not be ideal for other applications (and certainly not from the standpoint of cost in wire and time). Msg#:12338 *GENERAL* 01/04/89 15:31:09 From: DAVID GALLOWAY To: ALL Subj: GRAPHICS CARDS Does anyone know of a way to disable screen refresh on IBM type video cards (cga/ega/vga)? I would like to disable the screen, do some stuff in video memory and then enable the video. Using the turbo C outport function I seem to be able to accomplish this but I can't find documentation to validate the method (and I have a fair amount of bokks, mags, etc.). A procedure in C would be nice, but PASCAL or ASSEMBLER would do as well if it is possible at all. The problem occured when going from EGA to VGA and I ran out of video memory on the second video page (page 1). Any help would be appreciated. Msg#:12351 *GENERAL* 01/04/89 21:58:32 From: KENT CEDOLA To: DAVID GALLOWAY (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 12338 (GRAPHICS CARDS) While switching to another page is the best method, if you don't have another page then you could change all the palettes to the same color. Then when the drawing is done put the colors back. The problem with this method (or even disabling the graphic board) is that the screen is blank for awhile and some users will think the computer died and reboot. You could also build the graphic image in real memory and move it to the graphic buffer. Using a real IBM AT and IBM EGA I could update the full screen ten times a second by copying data from memory to the graphic memory. The IBM EGA is rather slow as compared to the new stuff out now. Msg#:12414 *GENERAL* 01/05/89 19:08:13 From: NATHAN ENGLE To: KENT CEDOLA (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 12351 (GRAPHICS CARDS) Kent, I just happened to have the same question the other day at work and what I found was that for CGA, Hercules Mono, and MDA there is a bit in the mode select register (0x3D8 for CGA, 0x3B8 for the others) and setting that bit to 0 disables screen refreshes. The screen DOES just go blank so your users really will wonder what's going on (Has my monitor died?). I think the bit is #5, since I recall that instead of 0x29, I was putting 0x09 (i.e.-bit 5 turned off) in the mode control register. One problem though, I'm not sure that there are equivalent tricks for EGA and VGA. There probably are, but I don't like to write programs that check for 1000 different kinds of hardware. I just use BIOS and let the users watch me while I draw stuff. Msg#:12428 *GENERAL* 01/05/89 22:34:21 From: KENT CEDOLA To: NATHAN ENGLE (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 12414 (GRAPHICS CARDS) Why do you have to disable the video? And what about the other possible suggestions that discribed? Msg#:12339 *GENERAL* 01/04/89 17:43:26 From: HOWARD ROTHMAN To: ALL Subj: VOICE MESSAGING SYSTEMS I would like to be contacted by anyone who is interested in Voice Messaging Systems. I myself use WATSON on a PC clone. I am intersted in the variety of applications you might be developing, and I will be happy to share mine. Anything you might know, or want to know in regard to multi-line phone system VMS would be especially valuable. I can be contacted on this BB, or via voice phone at 203 332 1524. You are welcome to listen to my VMS there. Do you have a VMS? Leave the phone number! Msg#:12344 *GENERAL* 01/04/89 19:56:30 From: ROBERT MCILVAINE To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: X-10 Steve, What's going on at X-10. It seems like they are moving very slow with the bi-direct interface and have limited quantities of the uni-direct interface. In addition, they seem to be more tentative with info than ever. Bob Msg#:12378 *GENERAL* 01/05/89 09:48:34 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: ROBERT MCILVAINE (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 12344 (X-10) You'll have to ask them. My guess is that since the computer interface modules (PL513 and TW523) have such a limited audience right now, they're not putting them at a high priority. They're working on a bunch of new products right now, so have to decide which ones are most important. Their momentary contact module, for example, is going to have a huge audience, so they're going to put their time into getting that one out first. I'm told that production quantities of the TW523 are expected in January. We've been trying to get just one or two more modules (we have just one hand-built prototype) for a while now with no success. I wasn't aware of limited quantities of the PL513. We've had no trouble getting them. They're probably either eliminating it in favor of the TW523 or having it made at the same time as the TW523. Msg#:12415 *GENERAL* 01/05/89 19:12:36 From: NATHAN ENGLE To: ROBERT MCILVAINE (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 12344 (X-10) I know that the security industry will be much more interested in X-10 once they have released the bi-directional product. Many security panels support X-10 outputs that are triggered during alarms (turn on all lights or something like that), but the lack of confirmation that the lights have been turned on is very troubling. The security business is very much driven by fear of lawsuits that occur when panels fail to perform as expected in life or death situations. Msg#:12446 *GENERAL* 01/06/89 09:07:57 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: NATHAN ENGLE (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 12415 (X-10) The two-way module isn't going to help much in confirming that a particular light indeed came on. You'll be able to confirm that the command was sent, but the lamp and appliance modules are still receive-only devices. They won't tell you what their current status is. Msg#:12485 *GENERAL* 01/07/89 05:10:28 From: NATHAN ENGLE To: KEN DAVIDSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 12446 (X-10) Boy, that's too bad. If you could actually tell whether a command worked or not then X10 would be more useful to people for whom that kind of stuff REALLY MATTERS (lawsuit city, here, security dealers deal in paranoia on many more subtle areas than just to be afraid of being broken in to) Msg#:12498 *GENERAL* 01/07/89 11:35:12 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: NATHAN ENGLE (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 12485 (X-10) True two-way operation is one of the many issues being addressed by CEBus. I have the preliminary spec that the EIA is using for their booths at CES and other shows. Among the many devices which have commands defined for them, the light controllers have on, off, and status commands. The status command causes the controller to return the on/off status of the light. Of course, we won't see commercial devices for at least another two years, and they probably won't be as cheap as X-10 in the beginning, so don't start throwing your ivory modules away just yet. Msg#:12521 *GENERAL* 01/07/89 19:17:46 From: NATHAN ENGLE To: KEN DAVIDSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 12498 (X-10) Ok, interesting. Actually I don't have any X-10 modules myself and X-10 compatibility is built into security panels mostly due to the "tail-fin" race syndrome, features built in just to compare favorably to competitors in product description literature. Very few alarm system dealers want to get involved with stuff like X-10 anyway. That's not what they're getting paid for anyway; generally it's up to the customer to get informed on what the panel can do with appropriate programming. A lot of alarm system installers have high school educations and nothing else. Some have degrees from technical colleges, but in general the installers aren't rocket scientists so they have trouble with complex setup procedures. Msg#:12348 *GENERAL* 01/04/89 20:39:34 From: MARK LUCAS To: ALL Subj: PC BOARDS Has anyone tried the 'iron on' resist method for PC boards? I recently found an article in a March '87 Modern Electronics mag a write-up on a company who supplies a mylar sheet to transfer toner directly to copper clad boards - (the toner could be from laser printer or plain paper copier). I've already ordered a few sheets to try. Mark Msg#:12400 *GENERAL* 01/05/89 15:35:21 From: JEFF BACHIOCHI To: MARK LUCAS (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 12348 (PC BOARDS) Mark, Sounds like an interesting concept, keep us informed! jeff Msg#:12353 *GENERAL* 01/04/89 22:26:44 From: MARK LAMPKIN To: JEFF BACHIOCHI (Rcvd) Subj: SERIAL EPROM PGM'R I'm using the serial eprom programmer and trying to program a Hitachi HN27C64G-20....Without luck...Does anyone know if this is a 21v program voltage or the standard 12.5 for CMOS eproms???The programmer does fine on NMOS 2764's,128's,256's,etc....With this part I keep getting no-go's and the unit keeps telling me the eprom is still in the erased mode...Mark Msg#:12361 *GENERAL* 01/05/89 00:45:33 From: JIM NELSON To: MARK LAMPKIN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 12353 (SERIAL EPROM PGM'R) The data book says vpp for the hn27C64G-20 is 21 volts. Msg#:12368 *GENERAL* 01/05/89 06:30:26 From: MARK LAMPKIN To: JIM NELSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 12361 (SERIAL EPROM PGM'R) Thanks lots...Mark Msg#:12397 *GENERAL* 01/05/89 14:44:40 From: JEFF BACHIOCHI To: MARK LAMPKIN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 12353 (SERIAL EPROM PGM'R) Mark, My old HITACHI manual says your part programs at 21 volts. This part is an older one as it is not listed in the '88 manual. Remember a damaged EPROM will look like it is empty! jeff Msg#:12490 *GENERAL* 01/07/89 09:03:42 From: MARK LAMPKIN To: JEFF BACHIOCHI (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 12397 (SERIAL EPROM PGM'R) Tanks for the info...I tried it at 21v and it worked...This wasn't an old eprom...I just bought them about 4 months ago,last time I was San Jose at Frye's....Mark Msg#:12356 *GENERAL* 01/04/89 23:15:48 From: GARY LEAR To: NEIL CHERRY (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 11532 (MICROCONTROLLERS AND RAM) Maybe a general article on DRAMs is in order. --Gary Msg#:12376 *GENERAL* 01/05/89 09:38:53 From: NEIL CHERRY To: GARY LEAR (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 12356 (MICROCONTROLLERS AND RAM) An article would definitely be in order. I have a hard time understanding timing. If I can understand that then DRAM circuits would be easy to design into PALs ASICs. NJC Msg#:13047 *GENERAL* 01/20/89 05:57:58 From: GARY LEAR To: NEIL CHERRY (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 12376 (MICROCONTROLLERS AND RAM) I wil put it on my list of things to do, --Gary Msg#:12357 *GENERAL* 01/04/89 23:23:37 From: GARY LEAR To: ERIC BOHLMAN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 11552 (STEPPER MOTOR ARTICLE) Consultants are always at fault. Since clients claim we make so much money to begin with (ignoring the loss of benefits) and they insist that we hurry, so as not to make much of that money, and of course they then ignore our caveats (not enough analysis, no production data, etc.). The only fault a consultant really makes is being a consultant! --Gary Msg#:12358 *GENERAL* 01/04/89 23:26:29 From: GARY LEAR To: JOSEPH FREEMAN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 11607 (11.0592MHZ CRYSTALS FOR SALE) I will mail check as soon as I can, but currently in the hospital in traction. Please send some dimensions and I will tell you the case style. --Gary Msg#:12359 *GENERAL* 01/04/89 23:28:16 From: GARY LEAR To: MARK BALCH (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 11612 (6850 ACIA'S UPGRADES?) Glad to be of service. --Gary Msg#:12363 *GENERAL* 01/05/89 01:57:55 From: JON OLSSON To: ALL USERS Subj: INFO ON INTERACTIVE VIDEO Can anyone guide me to a source (information and/or product) for interactive video? I need to be able to playback at varying speeds a pre-recorded video program for a simulator. Can video disks be played at slower speeds? Who makes a VCR that can be controlled by a computer? Who masters video disks? It would be convenient if I could pull some digital-type data from the same source, how would the Imagewise work out for that? I was toying with the idea that the Imagewise could turn black and white into ones and zeros. With some ECC, would that be a feasible way to store data? Msg#:12369 *GENERAL* 01/05/89 06:37:14 From: KENT CEDOLA To: JON OLSSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 12363 (INFO ON INTERACTIVE VIDEO) CEIT sells a product called Authology that can be used to control LaserDisk and/or commercial VCR's. The VCR are in the 1500 and up range and LaserDisk (two years ago) was 250,000 and up for a development system. The two VCR that we have do not have speed control through the computer. I don't know about the LaserDisk. Imagewise data could be stored on some big disk drives attached to your computer and simulated a video show ion slow motion. Try reading some tra ining magazines on CBI (Computer based instruction) for more information on the state of the art hardware. Msg#:12394 *GENERAL* 01/05/89 13:55:46 From: JOHN MEALEY III To: ALL Subj: AT FLOPPY CONTROLLER I am trying to find a source for AT Floppy disk controllers that will enable me to have 3 or 4 floppy drives in a AT machine. It really needs to be independent from the hard disk controller. I am thinking that having a 360KB, a 1.44KB and a second 1.44KB would be a reasonable system here to cope with getting software on 5.25 and wanting it on 3.5 media. The drives are all around, but I have yet to find a card that has the 4 drive (of mix and match types) capability. I'll check back Monday, for now it's time to go feed the clerks there daily ration of IRS tax forms to send out to customers.... -John Mealey Msg#:12469 *GENERAL* 01/06/89 18:06:42 From: ANDREAS DESSOFF To: JOHN MEALEY III (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 12394 (AT FLOPPY CONTROLLER) John, try the following company: DATADISK, Small Office Systems 7 Shell Road Dixon, NM 87527-0157. They have both a four-floppy AT/XT controller for all densities as well a a third drive add-on controller. If you use the first type, you need to have a separate hard drive-only controller card, while the second will work with the typical 2hard/2 floppy AT type controller. The price for either (incl. shipping) is $109. They have appropriate connectors and cables to install the 3rd/4th drive either externally or internally. Similar controller cards are offered under the name CompatiCard (advertised in Computer Shopper, etc.), but at higher prices. I bought mine from Datadisk. I like the documentation that came with it, which is thorough enough and real English, even though the card is made in Taiwan. I cannot say yet how well it works as I am waiting to get a new hard drive controller before installing it (I chose the first version). Good Luck . . . . . . . . Andy. Msg#:12401 *GENERAL* 01/05/89 16:28:15 From: DAVID LAGERGREN To: JEFF BACHIOCHI (Rcvd) Subj: 8052AH PROGRAMMING I need help. I have a basic program running on the 8052ah that needs to read information comming in the console port. The following assembly language routine is loaded into memory at 4969H by xby'ing the hex values in. When the a control line (0c801H) goes high, the basic program calls this routine. The problem I have is that control does not pass back to the basic program unless additional data comes in on the console port. At that point the program continues execution. Any help will be greatly appreciated. inp: push psw setb psw,3 setb psw.4 mov dptr,#4501h loop: mov r0,#01 mov p2,#200 movx a,@r0 anl a,#64 jz exit jnb ri,$ mov a,sbuf clr ri movx @dptr,a inc dptr jmp loop exit: clr a pop psw ret end -----------------Dave Msg#:12608 *GENERAL* 01/09/89 10:17:00 From: JEFF BACHIOCHI To: DAVID LAGERGREN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 12401 (8052AH PROGRAMMING) David, First, always save all registers used within your routine. Since 'A' and 'DPTR' are being used here, PUSH ACC, PUSH DPH and PUSH DPL. This will allow you to put back (POP) the old values before EXITing ( the system will need these to be able to continue with what it was doing before your routine took control.) Second, it looks like you are getting stuck in the 'jnb ri,$' loop. This can be eliminated by looping to 'LOOP:' instead of '$'. jeff Msg#:12722 *GENERAL* 01/12/89 01:56:24 From: JIM NELSON To: DAVID LAGERGREN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 12401 (8052AH PROGRAMMING) Dave, I looked over your code fragment; I noticed that you re-tested the control line that you said triggered the interrupt ( bit 6 of the byte @ $C801, which you obtain through a paged read) as well as the serial received-char interrupt bit. I don't know if this is valid: my 8031 family experience is with Forth. But the possibility occurs to me because your interrupt service routine exits via a simple RET instruction, suggesting that some intermediary ( the embedded basic) has fielded that interrupt and passed control to your subroutine after possibly already having massaged the interrupt registers. And since your routine pauses to test that bit, it ends up waiting for the next serial data frame. I'm also puzzled by the fact that unless the act of reading $C081 has some effect, you do nothing to reset that control line. So it may be a handshake problem. Just speculating, jgn Msg#:12413 *GENERAL* 01/05/89 18:57:10 From: NATHAN ENGLE To: JEFF BACHIOCHI (Rcvd) Subj: 84 PIN PLCC SOCKETS Ok, great. Thanks very much for everybody's input. Now we just have to track down some V25s. I am going to try to get some within the next month or so. Should I try to get extras? Would people be interested in a group purchase and if so how many do we want? I was going to get about 20 but I was planning to hang onto all of those for myself. Msg#:12427 *GENERAL* 01/05/89 22:31:05 From: KENT CEDOLA To: NATHAN ENGLE (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 12413 (84 PIN PLCC SOCKETS) I'll take 10 V25 (with the PLCC socket if possible) and even a copy of the specs. I have been calling 1-800-632-3531 for literature but keep getting an answering machine to leave my name and number. Either that haven't call me back yet or I keep missing them, I'll try again Friday. The NEC V25 muPD70320 is the one. I have no idea what number to call to order the chips, I assume that one has to call NEC... Maybe someone here knows the NEC Buy-A-Chip number? Now if you can get buyers for 70 more then maybe get a lower rate for a lot of 100. --Kent-- Msg#:12439 *GENERAL* 01/06/89 06:23:25 From: NATHAN ENGLE To: KENT CEDOLA (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 12427 (84 PIN PLCC SOCKETS) Ok, Kent, I'll try to get the parts together. I may have a spare copy of the specs and I'll definitely try to get more copies of the User's guide. As for contacting NEC, there's a number listed in the front of Jameco's '89 catalog for NEC Electronics, Mountain View, CA which I think is the 'order-and-enquire-about-NEC-products' line. I haven't tried it but I bet that would get you through to somebody who knows about parts. What division of NEC is that 1-800 number for? They have split up into business units kind of like AT&T so nobody knows what anyone else is doing. If you don't get the right part of NEC to start with they don't have the ability to locate the people you really wanted to talk with. Myself, I'm going to try calling our local NEC rep. I hear that he's very hard to get ahold of and even harder to get deliveries from, but he has provided v25's to AT&T in the past and I bet he can do a repeat performance. Just to help me get his attention, what's the general nature of your project? This guy is nosy about the applications (he wants to know whether you're going to be ordering 1000 very soon) and it might help if I indicated that I represent a group of independant design engineers who are considering adopting the V25 in a big way (even if we're not). Msg#:12440 *GENERAL* 01/06/89 06:30:25 From: NATHAN ENGLE To: KENT CEDOLA (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 12439 (84 PIN PLCC SOCKETS) Oh, I almost walked away without saying the phone number for NEC Electronics. It is 415-960-6000. Msg#:12455 *GENERAL* 01/06/89 15:04:29 From: STEVE CIARCIA To: NATHAN ENGLE (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 12439 (84 PIN PLCC SOCKETS) Why not send the guy my way. We are seriously looking at the V25 for a project and would therefore need the chip in hundreds at least. I'd see that the chip was also available through CCI. --Steve Msg#:12486 *GENERAL* 01/07/89 05:17:58 From: NATHAN ENGLE To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 12455 (84 PIN PLCC SOCKETS) Excellent, Steve what you say is music to my ears. Our local NEC rep is one of those unfortunate people who are hypnotized by the thought of making money. It is the central and driving theme of his life, a passion that exceeds his love of life itself ;). Seriously though, I really like the 25 from what I've seen of it. With a typical supply current of about 50 milliamps (and a max of 100) it really fits the bill for a low power controller that is object code compatible with 8086. Developement time using standard familiar MSDOS tools is very nice. We are using C as our high level language, but I don't see why you couldn't use any language that produces either .EXE or .COM file. Msg#:12434 *GENERAL* 01/05/89 23:51:58 From: TIM LADA To: ALL Subj: SONAR COMMUNICATIONS Does anyone have information on sonar transducers? I am looking for something with a wide dispersion angle (60 or more degrees). The transducer also has to be capable of being modulated by an analog signal. I've looked at the offerings from POLAROID - they were more suited for ranging (2 degree dispersion) also the high voltage required prevented their use. Any help would sure be appreciated THANX Msg#:12457 *GENERAL* 01/06/89 15:24:10 From: STEVE CIARCIA To: TIM LADA (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 12434 (SONAR COMMUNICATIONS) Do a search on Dolphins, underwater, sound, and sonar. I remember a lot of discussion on this a while back. --Steve Msg#:12477 *GENERAL* 01/07/89 00:07:52 From: TIM LADA To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 12457 (SONAR COMMUNICATIONS) THANX I HAVE A FEELING SOMETHING IN THAT AREA WOULD BE TOO COSTLY, BUT IT MAY JOG SOMETHING. Msg#:12441 *GENERAL* 01/06/89 06:34:18 From: NATHAN ENGLE To: ALL Subj: RF COILS I am starting on a project using the LM1871/LM1872 radio encoder/decoders and I am stumped by a part listed in the National application notes. It says to use a Miller #9330-10 coil to connect the transmitter's antenna, but it doesn't give any specs on the coil. Since I can't find the Miller part I'd like to find an equivalent. Anybody know about a coil I could use instead of the 9330-10? Thanks in advance, Nate... Msg#:12466 *GENERAL* 01/06/89 17:36:13 From: GREGORY C. CONRAN To: ALL Subj: SALE - WORD PERFECT 5.0 & ACESSORIES I am selling my copy of Word Perfect 5.0 and accessories. My package includes all manuals, etc. This is a fantastic package for anyone who needs an awesome word processor, and light desktop publisher. I have Word Perfect printer disks 1,2,3,4,5,6,7 - five of which I bought from Word Perfect. I also have a Spanish Speller and Thesaurus (which cost me $150) I also have a Bitstream Font maker kit for Charter, Dutch, and Swiss fonts which are fantastic for PCL and Postscript printers. The printer disks above provide you with access to nearly any printer you have. I also am including the Printer Definition Program workbook that I purchased from WP Corporation. I am offering the above for $399 or the best offer. Msg#:12472 *GENERAL* 01/06/89 18:48:06 From: KENT CEDOLA To: ALL Subj: EEPROM'S I'm thinking about using a EEPROM for a project. Any words of wisdom from the experts? Msg#:12549 *GENERAL* 01/08/89 16:35:08 From: MATT OLSON To: KENT CEDOLA (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 12472 (EEPROM'S) Kent, I have just finished a single chip micro project using a Xicor X2444 NOVRAM. This is a 16 bit by 16 word serial device. It actually is a static ram overlayed with EEPROM, which allows unlimited writes to the RAM with up to 100,000 stores to the EEPROM. The advantage to this is one that you get the speed of writing to RAM without having to take the time (about 10 mSec.) to save to EEPROM each time you need to store something. Then when you lose power or turn the unit off, you can do one save to the EEPROM which saves the entire contents of the RAM. I needed that feature because I needed to save each count as the machine was incremented, and the count would have easily exceeded 100,000 in a few weeks. By monitoring the power line, I generated an interrupt line when the voltage dropped below a certain level and did one save to the EEPROM. Works out real nice, saving the count and the machine status. Xicor makes a variety of NOVRAM devices of this sort, both serial and parallel, as well as standard EEPROMs and CMOS EEPROMs. They also have a device called a EEPOT, which is a digitally controlled potentiometer. I have a sample one of those and hope to play with it soon. Xicor has a 1988 Data Book with all specs and some good application notes. Matt Msg#:12568 *GENERAL* 01/08/89 20:12:51 From: KENT CEDOLA To: MATT OLSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 12549 (EEPROM'S) I'll check out XICOR. I am mostly interested in high-density EEPROM. --Kent-- Msg#:12581 *GENERAL* 01/09/89 06:01:06 From: ERIC BOHLMAN To: KENT CEDOLA (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 12472 (EEPROM'S) One thing to be wary of is accidental power-up writes into an EEPROM. They're supposed to have circuitry to prevent writes being triggered by narrow glitches, but some microprocessors and microcontrollers will generate what looks like a valid write at powerup. My experience has been that 8031's tend to hit the first location in the EEPROM or BBRAM and I generally avoid using that location. Msg#:12474 *GENERAL* 01/06/89 20:14:18 From: DAVE EWEN To: ALL Subj: AMATEUR REMOTE CONTROL Is anyone here who really has a good understanding of the legal limitations of using amateur radio for control link applications? It seems that for some things you are limited to 1 watt maximum, and for other things you must provide automatic station ID. Can anyone clairify the rules for me? Msg#:12476 *GENERAL* 01/06/89 23:31:07 From: MARK LUCAS To: JEFF BACHIOCHI (Rcvd) Subj: RESULTS Jeff, I received the mylar sheets today and just completed a small 2"x3" pc-board. I am quite suprised by the results even though I had a few smudged copies and a few paper jams. After 4 attempts I managed a decent copy (even though I had to remove the sheet from the laser before it went to the heat roller). I then took the good copy right over to my ironing board (that I always keep next to my bench), fired up my GE 'Light and Easy' and ironed directly to the copper clad board. I had tried ironing the rejects first to see how hot the iron had to be... and settled on 'cotton'. After it cooled, I carefully removed the mylar. The toner remained on the board and resisted considerable finger nail scrapes. After etching and cleaning, the quality is good considering the number of attempts. I still have to try using a photocopier and magazine artwork, but that will have to wait 'till tomorrow... I have a few more shirts to do. Mark Msg#:12600 *GENERAL* 01/09/89 09:25:41 From: JEFF BACHIOCHI To: MARK LUCAS (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 12476 (RESULTS) Mark, I know how time consuming laundry can be, I've got four kids! Nice to hear of a little success. Sounds like a step in the right direction, if the sheets (mylar - not bed) aren't too $$$.$$. Thanks for your update. ...now if we could do something about plated through holes? jeff Msg#:12633 *GENERAL* 01/09/89 17:28:54 From: MARK LUCAS To: JEFF BACHIOCHI (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 12600 (RESULTS) Jeff, The last message I left was on Friday... Some interesting wrinkles developed since in quest for a quick and easy pc-board (yes, the pun was intended). I will be trying a few things tonight... The mylar is not too expensive, about 75 cents in quantities of 10 (cheaper in larger volumes) Mark Msg#:12647 *GENERAL* 01/10/89 09:01:12 From: JEFF BACHIOCHI To: MARK LUCAS (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 12633 (RESULTS) Mark, Interesting! ...Chuck, send home those 2 dozen people with irons. jeff Msg#:13030 *GENERAL* 01/19/89 19:33:18 From: JEFF JENSEN To: MARK LUCAS Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 12476 (RESULTS) Mark, what success have you had producing PC boards using a copier? A few years ago I worked for a major office equipment manufacturer and tried to make iron-on etch masks. They made a color copier that put four layers of dry ink (toner) onto a page. It also allowed you to play around with the fuser temperature, so that you could turn the heat down and lightly fuse the ink to the page. - A local T-shirt company used the machine to make iron-on transfers for T-shirts. I got a few sheets of the plastic-coated paper they used for transfers, took a copy of a PC board layout and tried to iron it on. I had problems with registration of the layers of ink and in getting the ink to transfer to the copper. It took some clean up work with a magic marker to fix some of the holes and cracks. My results were fair, but the traces were very coarse--no where near IC resolution. If you have success, I would be interested in your techniques. - - Jeff Msg#:12479 *GENERAL* 01/07/89 00:53:26 From: JEFF CHADIMA To: KEN DAVIDSON (Rcvd) Subj: ZRDOS+ Ken, For the last year and a half, I have been limping along with a corrupt copy of ZRDOS+.REL. I have searched high and low for my Master floppy disks which came with my system, but to no avail. I guess that I hid them too well. I just got XBIOS a month ago and set out to configure it. However, it needs a copy of a ZRDOS file. How can I get another copy? Can I get it through this BBS? It sure would be convenient for me. - Jeff Msg#:12495 *GENERAL* 01/07/89 11:31:00 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: JEFF CHADIMA (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 12479 (ZRDOS+) I'll Email you a copy when I get to the office. For others listening in, I can't post it publically since it is proprietary software. Msg#:12492 *GENERAL* 01/07/89 09:56:34 From: MIKE SCOTT To: ALL Subj: IBM DATA ACQ BOARD A little while ago I picked up an IBM Data Acqusition and Control Adapter board from Mendelson Electronics. The price seemed like a bargain ($200, originally >$1000) and I had the thought of doing some home control projects with it. The board has 16 digital input/outputs, 4 A/D channels, 2 D/A channels and 3 16 bit timer/counters. The board is also capable of generating hardware interrupts. The board came with a little bit of documentation and a couple of sample programs that have given me the info I needed to experiment with the digital and analog I/O. However, there was nothing included on the timers or interrupts. The docs mention that IBM offers programming support software for the board (IBM part #6024202), but I have been unable to locate it through any local dealers. I would definitely like to investigate the timer and interrupt capabilities to support background operation. Also, it seems this may be a great way to interface the X-10 TW523 or PL513 modules. Has anyone had any experience with this board or know where I can obtain more information on the programming support software? Msg#:12493 *GENERAL* 01/07/89 10:29:14 From: GREGORY C. CONRAN To: ALL Subj: PC FAX MACHINES Does anyone have some good information on Fax boards for PC's? I have looked at The Complete Fax, and some others, but I don't want to spend $300-400 without a lot more information. Are they worth it? Or should one spend $1000 or more for a desktop model? How good is the OCR software in PC faxes? Is it easy to convert test into a word processor? If you can offer suggestions, I would appreciate it. Msg#:12502 *GENERAL* 01/07/89 12:34:43 From: MICHAEL GRAHAM To: ALL Subj: 8" DISK DRIVE INFO I am seeking information about the configuring switches on an MPI model 42 disk drive. This is an 8" half-height model manufactured by Micro Peripherals Inc. (now out of business, I understand). I've got two of these drives I'm trying to make work with an older system of mine. Any help will be greatly appreciated> Michael. Msg#:12504 *GENERAL* 01/07/89 14:22:53 From: RICHARD LANGLEY To: ALL Subj: DALLAS SMART WATCH I am interested in obtaining information on using the Dallas DS1216 SmartWatch chip with a Z80-based system. Does anyone know where I can get the Z80 machine code instructions for setting and reading the chip? Richard Langley. Msg#:12561 *GENERAL* 01/08/89 18:50:44 From: BOB PADDOCK To: RICHARD LANGLEY (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 12504 (DALLAS SMART WATCH) I've already done all of the work for you, check out the file "SWTIME10.LBR" in the CPM download section here. Msg#:12822 *GENERAL* 01/14/89 10:01:22 From: RICHARD LANGLEY To: BOB PADDOCK (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 12561 (DALLAS SMART WATCH) Thanks very much for your help. I'll go and retrieve the file now. - Richard Langley Msg#:12522 *GENERAL* 01/07/89 20:01:57 From: MICHAEL DERRICK To: KEN DAVIDSON (Rcvd) Subj: MORE PROBLEMS KEN , I have made it farther on down loading . Using XMODEM it finds the file tells me # of records, est time, at 1200 bps. Then it says awaiting start signal I think I have tried every thing. Is the start signal somthing set up in my software, because if it is it's not called "start signal". Sorry to keep bothering you. Msg#:12628 *GENERAL* 01/09/89 16:03:13 From: MICHAEL DERRICK To: KEN DAVIDSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 12590 (MORE PROBLEMS) Thank you , at least I know where to start looking. I live in Ellington , thats why I am experimenting with your BB. Sorry for any inconvienience I may be causing. If I'm being of trouble to you, let me know and I will stop. Msg#:12542 *GENERAL* 01/08/89 12:13:51 From: RON LEBLANC To: KEN DAVIDSON (Rcvd) Subj: AUTHOR'S GUIDE OK, I give up. Where is this Author's Guide which you refer to in several of the messages. Can no find! What area is it in OR what message is it? Thanks. ---Ron Msg#:12544 *GENERAL* 01/08/89 13:48:03 From: SEAN M. BEATRICE To: EDDIE WHITE (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 44 (BSR MODULES) Could someone suggest a good book that can assit me with writing microcode fo eprom programs. This is my first attempt at trying to program proms and I am having some difficulty in getting infor- mation on the subject and what is needed to get the job done. I can forsee some of the hardware that I would need, the eprom programmer but that is the root of my problem. I don't know what type of support software I would need or what is the assembler lang. to use for the prom itself. Finally, information about program design would be of great help. Thankx Sean Msg#:12545 *GENERAL* 01/08/89 15:22:48 From: DICK FAIRBANKS To: MARK BALCH (Rcvd) Subj: MPI Mark: The vital info. on MPI is: Micro Peripherals, Inc 4426 South Century Drive Salt Lake City, UT 84123 800-821-8848/801-263-3081 I dunno about their drives, but I bought a printer they made a couple of years ago. Dick Fairbanks <^_^> Msg#:12841 *GENERAL* 01/14/89 13:44:12 From: MARK BALCH To: DICK FAIRBANKS (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 12545 (MPI) Oh, thanks. I'll send them a letter requesting data on their drive. I don't know about using it though because the old Apple format is very different from the "standard" IBM/Intel format. Bye, Mark Msg#:12546 *GENERAL* 01/08/89 15:26:56 From: DICK FAIRBANKS To: MICHAEL GRAHAM (Rcvd) Subj: MPI Mike: The vital info on MPI is: Micro Peripherals, Inc. 4426 South Century Drive Salt Lake City, UT 84123 800-821-8848/801-263-3081 Dunno about their drives, but they made a printer I bought a couple of years ago. Dick Fairbanks <^_^> Msg#:12876 *GENERAL* 01/15/89 15:32:07 From: MICHAEL GRAHAM To: DICK FAIRBANKS (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 12546 (MPI) Thanks Dick. I'll contact them and see what they can do to help me. Michael. Msg#:12553 *GENERAL* 01/08/89 17:52:49 From: GREG BELL To: ALL Subj: VOICE SYNTHESIS I'm building a project that would be GREAT to use a voice synthesizer with. I've thought about using phoneme synthesizers, but their quality stinks (but, I still haven't been able to get my hands on an SSI-263). Digitized speech would be good, but I have a pretty specific vocabulary need that standard vocabulary sets don't usually have (ie. Digitalker). Digitizing my own speech for use in the box sounded appealing until I realized how complicated the compression and modulation processes are. What really is the best way to get high quality, unlimited vocabulary, artificial speech for a small project? The closest thing I've found is an article in 73 Magazine (Nov.) that most of you would probably be interested in. They talked about using one of TI's popular LPC voice chips. The great thing was, you can get a disk for $25 that allows you to construct your own vocabulary (I assume by piecing together phonemes...so would this sound any better than a standard phoneme chip?). Any ideas? I'm not in need of full boards, but rather methods and chips that would be reasonable to use in a small project. . Greg Bell Msg#:12565 *GENERAL* 01/08/89 19:44:39 From: ALEXANDER SCHNEIDER To: GREG BELL (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 12553 (VOICE SYNTHESIS) You say you need a specific vocabulary, so is unlimited vocabulary speech necessary? As long as you don't need a great length of digitized data or very high-quality output (better than phoneme synthesizers), 8 or even 4 bits at 2000hz sampling would give you 1-2k per second, and playback is no great problem. You might even to go below 2000 hz sampling without significant decrease in quality. If you need to put together words in undetermined sequences, it is a simple job to make a microcontroller pump the data to a D/A converter. Msg#:12582 *GENERAL* 01/09/89 06:08:37 From: ERIC BOHLMAN To: GREG BELL (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 12553 (VOICE SYNTHESIS) You might consider using the ADPCM speech chips made by OKI. These will digitize speech with a fair amount of compression; you can get up to 16 seconds of speech into 32K. They have two analysis/synthesis chips and one playback-only chip. All the analysis is done in real time by the chips. The most sophisticated of the two is the MSM6258VRS, which has a microprocessor bus interface. All you need to add is input amplification and filtering. Cost is $12.90 in thousands (I think it's around $15 in small quantities). The playback chip is the MSM5205; I don't have pricing for that one. The other analysis/synthesis chip is the 5218, which Steve wrote up a while back. It requires more support components than the 6258. Call your OKI rep and ask for a copy of their "Voice Synthesis LSI Databook." If ordering 6258's, be sure to get the microprocessor bus version; there's also a "stand-alone" version that wouldn't fit your application. Msg#:12614 *GENERAL* 01/09/89 11:11:22 From: STEVE CIARCIA To: GREG BELL (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 12553 (VOICE SYNTHESIS) We have a microprocessor based ADPCM unlimited-speech synthesizer board project coming up in a future CC INK. It will be presented at the same high level as all the other CC INK projects that you find are not for the average hacker (i.e. the projects are tested and work; don't require the use of obsolete components; and challenge the aspiring talents of the readership). Circuit Cellar INK readers are NOT the average hackers! Sorry if we have disappointed you but it would be a dull world if everything we tried was instantly achievable. Some of us had to go to school and become what we are. Circuit Cellar articles have always been challenges and I will admit that a "cost is no object" arrogance can sometimes prevail. What you are missing, however, is that this "cost" relates only to the duplication of the exact project and not to the availability of the technology. It is a standard practice that Circuit Cellar projects provide all details and software as a complete package. Provided you have the talent you can understand and learn from that project. If you have the money you can even build it. Circuit Cellar INK is not going to be full of LED flasher projects because they are cheap enough for the lowest common denomenator reader to build. No, if we had a project for a Cray XMP we'd be more likely to publish that. I'm sorry if you feel our direction is changing. I don't know what you think it is changing from. These expensive snow jobs have been going on for the last 12 years :-) --Steve Msg#:14675 *GENERAL* 02/22/89 22:58:24 From: DAVID K. MERRIMAN To: ALEXANDER SCHNEIDER (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 12565 (VOICE SYNTHESIS) You might also consider the General Instrument line of speech chips- the SPO256A phoneme set and the CTS256a text-to-speech converter. Both are available at (gasp!) Radio Shack, and provide for unlimited (if distinctly robotic) speech. You can also add 2K of RAM, and they can be used as either serial or parallel device(s). I've built a voice synthesizer for my (gasp again) Commodore, and it works fine. Hope this helps. <]Dave[> Msg#:12569 *GENERAL* 01/08/89 20:31:04 From: MARK LAMPKIN To: MARK BALCH (Rcvd) Subj: AS0.EXE Mark..I re-read your message and the assy language routine should be typed something like this: OPT C,RES,S ;THESE ARE ASSMBLR OPTIS NAM ADD4NR ;PGM NAME FOR LISTING ORG $0100 ;WHERE IT IS TO BE ASSEMBLED TEMP RMB 1 ;RESERVE 1 BYTE FOR TEMP LDA #25 ;LOAD ACCUM A WITH 25 DECIMAL ADDA #35 ;ADD 35 DEC TO ACCUM A ADDA #$32 ;ADD 32 HEX TO ACCUM A ADDA #%10001 ;ADD BINARY 17 TO ACCUM A STAA TEMP ;STORE ACCUM A IN TEMP END ;END OF ASSEMBLY AND PGM It appears that this is an example program to show the different data types the assembler can handle.The # means immediate data,as in the next byte after the instruction,$ means hex data and % means binary. ADDA for example means,ADD to Accumulator "a".Try it again....Mark......... ....P.S....Good Luck Msg#:12844 *GENERAL* 01/14/89 13:46:56 From: MARK BALCH To: MARK LAMPKIN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 12569 (AS0.EXE) Thank you. I will definately try that screen that you wrote down. I hope it works. If not and if I can't find answers, then I guess hand-coding won't be so bad! Bye, Mark Msg#:12570 *GENERAL* 01/08/89 20:46:56 From: MIKE DINGELDEY To: BOB PADDOCK (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 11690 (PART IDENTIFIACTION) Thanks for the info. I did find the 8042 section in the 1988 book...must have missed it the first time through. Msg#:12572 *GENERAL* 01/08/89 21:52:12 From: STEVEN HARGUS To: KENNETH A SCHARF Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 11294 (FISHER-PRICE VIDEO) Somebody tell me about a lionel rail scope..... Msg#:12875 *GENERAL* 01/15/89 13:22:19 From: KENNETH SCHARF To: STEVEN HARGUS (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 11906 (FISHER-PRICE VIDEO) The lionel railscope is a small tv camera inside a scale model locomotive. It is made by Lionel (same lionel that has been making toy trains for over 50 years). The railscope is available in HO, O, O27, and LGB scales. They offer a cheap 5" B&W Tv as a monitor, but any tv or vcr can be used. The video is sent down the track, and is picked up at some point with a network that separates the track DC power from the video. The HO scale version sells for about $250-300 dollars. Check you hobby shop, they should have it in stock. It is listed in the Walthers model railroad catalog. Msg#:12930 *GENERAL* 01/16/89 23:13:51 From: STEVEN HARGUS To: KENNETH SCHARF Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 12875 (FISHER-PRICE VIDEO) As a strange coincidence, the day after I placed that message, my local "computer dealer" just bought one and was showing it off at his store. Neat! Thanks! Msg#:12575 *GENERAL* 01/09/89 01:00:48 From: JAMES CHRISTOPHER To: NATHAN ENGLE (Rcvd) Subj: SCOPES I have been trrying to locate a good inexpesnive scope for sometime. I am hoping to ket a Tex scope . I some how got on their mailing list and recieve a lot of literature and catalougs and I was drooling over some of their equipment. Models 2235 , 2225 and even the litte 2205 would be really nice. My dad needs one so I think I can talk him into buying one for us! I justt located a few more boards for s-100 and I might be able to buy them all (disk controller, Z-80 computer with serial port, 64k ram, a mmu card, and one or two misc. boards which I might be able to get for under a hundred.) which would be nice. James Msg#:12673 *GENERAL* 01/11/89 05:56:57 From: NATHAN ENGLE To: JAMES CHRISTOPHER (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 12575 (SCOPES) My scope is a very old model as far as I can make out, and it seems to perform the same service that the new more expensive ones do. As I recall the price was $150, and the guy selling the scope had ANOTHER for sale for the same price, so I know that the equipment is around. A new scope would be nice but it sure didn't fit into my budget. Msg#:12576 *GENERAL* 01/09/89 01:03:16 From: JAMES CHRISTOPHER To: MARK PAYTON (Rcvd) Subj: S-100 COMPUTERS AND JUNK What type of S-100 system do you have again? I forgot, and what type of boards are you running? I have all IMSAI parts, a few JADE boards, a polymorphic board, and I might be buying..(oh crap now i forgot the name!) oh well let me know what ya got! James Msg#:12598 *GENERAL* 01/09/89 09:09:20 From: MARK PAYTON To: JAMES CHRISTOPHER (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 12576 (S-100 COMPUTERS AND JUNK) James, The computer I have is an Altair 8800b. I am only assuming that it is an S-100 bus. It also doesn't run since I have no system software or manuals. I'm loathe to just try to hook it together and turn on the power since I'm not at all familiar with the hardware. I'd hate to fry something that I'd not be able to replace easily. Msg#:12702 *GENERAL* 01/11/89 14:45:25 From: JAMES CHRISTOPHER To: MARK PAYTON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 12598 (S-100 COMPUTERS AND JUNK) Mark, Your Altair IS an S-100 computer. I have some info on it here. I have some info on it here (technical). If you want to see if your computer works. If you can find some manuals or some info on how to do this. you might want to toggle in a simple program that writes to the computers memory. And see if it can read to it. I have a friend who built an ALTAIR 8800 computer I do not know if it was the A model or the B (which you have) . I'll see if I can scrounge up some info on your computer. You might want to check old kilobaud and BYTE. And I beleive what was Popular Electronics.. (Popular computing ??) The older issues (75-79) might have some info on your computer. I'll let ya know if I can find some info. One thing you might want to do if you are really interested in getting an S-100 computer up and running. YOu might want to find some other S-100 cards an maybe a new motherboard. IEEE has a bus standard on the S-100 (IEEE-696) and I guess some of the signals are screwed up and that makes alot of the newer cards incompatible with IMSAIs and ALTAIRS. Local electronic flea markets may have some old s-100 stuff. Look into one of them. James Msg#:12736 *GENERAL* 01/12/89 08:06:59 From: MARK PAYTON To: JAMES CHRISTOPHER (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 12702 (S-100 COMPUTERS AND JUNK) James, Thanks for the info! I think my computer was the first version of the Altair that came with a keyboard (it also has 2 8" disk drives!). I've got back issues of Byte back to the late 70's, but there doesn't seem to be much info in them of use to me for that computer. I don't think the ads would be any good anymore. In VT there is not much in the way of swap meets or computer faires. Msg#:13000 *GENERAL* 01/19/89 02:24:40 From: BOB ACKLEY To: MARK PAYTON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 12598 (S-100 COMPUTERS AND JUNK) Try looking in an OLD issue of Radio-Electronics and/or Popular Electronics (before they changed formats and went broke). The Altair predates BYTE by a couple of years. I remember (vaguely) reading the articles in an electronics mag, and I think if was one of those, 1974/75/76 era - sorry I can't pin it down more tightly. Msg#:13017 *GENERAL* 01/19/89 12:06:43 From: BOB PADDOCK To: BOB ACKLEY (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 13000 (S-100 COMPUTERS AND JUNK) Try Popular Electronics Dec 1974 or Jan 1975, it was the "Cover Story" (Add a pix of the Altair on the cover). Msg#:13019 *GENERAL* 01/19/89 14:51:08 From: BILL CURLEW To: BOB ACKLEY (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 13000 (S-100 COMPUTERS AND JUNK) Hi Bob is right on both counts, It was a 2 part article Dec-Jan. I was so impressed that I bought the manuals for $30.00 and hand wrapped an entire system. Bill Msg#:13044 *GENERAL* 01/19/89 23:14:24 From: JACK PERGAL To: BOB ACKLEY (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 13000 (S-100 COMPUTERS AND JUNK) There is a series of articles about the Altair and it's sucessor's in the Jan 1989 and Feb 1989 Computer Shopper by stan Veit. Jack Msg#:13236 *GENERAL* 01/24/89 12:36:27 From: MARK PAYTON To: BOB ACKLEY (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 13000 (S-100 COMPUTERS AND JUNK) Bob, Thanks for the information. I'll see if I can scrape up one of those old issues. Any suggestions regarding where I might look would be appreciated. Msg#:12577 *GENERAL* 01/09/89 02:40:27 From: JON OLSSON To: KENT CEDOLA (Rcvd) Subj: THANKS FOR YOUR RESPONSE... Who is CEIT, and how can I contact them? That sounds like a lead at least. Training magazines sound like a likely source. I will look for some at the library. Thanks. Msg#:12639 *GENERAL* 01/09/89 18:37:59 From: KENT CEDOLA To: JON OLSSON Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 12577 (THANKS FOR YOUR RESPONSE...) CEIT is a company that sells an Authoring system (CBT/CBI) that supports laser disk, VCR control BCD unit and even video overlay. They are just a software company (the fancy hardware from others). Authology is 6000 for a development system and about 100/disk royalty (from CEIT). I do not recommend them and the training magazines will give you all the infor you need of other companies. BTW the computer controlled VCR is rather slow, and makes alot of noise finding a frame. The VCR control works (would be a simple project for CC) by recording a encoding signal (BCD) that contains the tape and frame number. Once the tape is preformatted you can add video and sound (one track only since the BCD uses the other track). Now the interface can read the frame number by play the tape and report it to the computer (via RS232). Thus when you tell the interface box to go to frame 1104, it will play a bit to see where it is at then skip forward or backwards and play a bit more to check the current location, etc, etc. This causes a delay and the VCR makes alot of neat clicking noice that makes the student wonder whats going on. Since CD-ROMs can be master at 1500-300 dollars and each copy is two dollars (no minimum), it could be used to store freeze frame images for your application. --kent-- Msg#:12580 *GENERAL* 01/09/89 04:20:00 From: BERNARD ABOBA To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: DDT-51 AVAILABLE? Well, I thought the DDT-51 was a great project, but I don't have time to build the kit. Is there somehwere I can purchase it already assembled? In general, I am wondering whether you plan to continue the relatioship with MicroMint, so that the projects INK produces will be readily available. Msg#:12621 *GENERAL* 01/09/89 11:33:28 From: STEVE CIARCIA To: BERNARD ABOBA (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 12580 (DDT-51 AVAILABLE?) Micromint is primarily an OEM embedded controller manufacturer these days. Ocassionally projects overlap and Micromit will assemble boards. That is the case on ImageWise/PC. It is available assembled from Micromint or kit from CCI. Generally speaking, however, only the really big projects will envolve Micromint. Regarding DDT-51, it is only a kit and that was the result of reader demand. We never intended to make a kit when I presented the project. It's now a matter of catch up. Perhaps you should look for some smart guy to build it for you. --Steve Msg#:12584 *GENERAL* 01/09/89 06:15:20 From: ERIC BOHLMAN To: ALL Subj: TELEPHONE RING GENERATION I need to generate a telephone ringing signal from low voltages. It doesn't have to supply much current, as all it's going to do is activate an answering machine. However, it does need to be riding on 60-70 volts DC in order for the machine to recognize it (bursts of AC only won't do it). My main constraint is limited space; I can't use bulky transformers. I also need to keep the power consumption as low as possible. Msg#:12603 *GENERAL* 01/09/89 09:31:49 From: JOHN MEALEY III To: ANDREAS DESSOFF (Rcvd) Subj: AT FLOPPY/SEP HD CONTROLLER I've got by George. I think I might even spend the extra dollar to get a Konan Controller for the hard disk. I will be ordering the controller this week and getting the system I want together before spring. -thanks much -John Mealey Msg#:12757 *GENERAL* 01/12/89 22:44:51 From: ANDREAS DESSOFF To: JOHN MEALEY III (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 12603 (AT FLOPPY/SEP HD CONTROLLER) Last time I read a review of a Konan controller it did not strike me as exactly favorable. Maybe they have a new product out that is better, and maybe that's what you are thinking of. I would advise checking it out again and execising caution. Good Luck! . . . . . . . . . Andy. Msg#:12631 *GENERAL* 01/09/89 16:20:27 From: JOHN MEALEY III To: ALL Subj: FLOPPY DD ERROR Throw one out to the crowd: One of the PC's (A true blue XT) here has developed a problem with the B: drive. So I ran Advanced Diagnostics and get a 601 & 603 error about 50% of the time. 601 is supposed to be "Diskette power on self test failed". I do not have a reference for 603. This really is not what bothers me. The bank generally wants me to yank *any* part that is even *Suspected* of being trashed. So I will most likely put in a new controller (Floppy only) and a new TEAC B: drive. The bank's rational is it is not worth the chance of losing the data entry of however long versus the cost of the part. I agree with that but it leads to lots of suspected parts sitting around that I would like to check out and possibly fix at home....the bank was not real pleased at the prospect, they rather I pitch the parts (Criminal of course). Most of the parts I feel could be fixed and put back into service at the bank, and only with the most trashed have target practice. What does anyone else think? What are the ethics involved? When do you say quits with a part (frustration level?). These weighed heavily on my lunch hour, but passed after I dropped by the pc parts shop and dropped $150.00. -I'll check in after the snow storm 2"-6" -Mealey Msg#:12804 *GENERAL* 01/13/89 21:34:39 From: STEVEN HARGUS To: JOHN MEALEY III (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 12631 (FLOPPY DD ERROR) I fully understand your dilemma. We are currently repairing used HP computer equipment for a leasing company who previously would send it back to HP for repair. There repair work (at $125/hour in houston) would consist of replacing boards until the unit works. I remember an episode with a drafting plotter that was sent back for repair because of a pen jam error when no pen was in the machine and HP's solution was to replace every board in the plotter (twice, at the customer's expense) before giving up altogether on it. We traced the problem to a $250 motor/encoder that the encoder had slipped on the motor shaft and was rubbing on the detectors. Worked just fine at low speeds during loading, but had too much drag when it shifted to a high speed, giving a pen jam error. A small adjustment quickly repaired the motor. Total cost for repair: $50. We have a friend at the local HP office who is basically in the same position you are in. He has even approached us with a serious offer for us to repair the boards he brings us at the component level, but HP's policy forbids such a proposition. As a result of this policy, his department oftens throws away some perfectly good equipment that is either slightly defective or simply outdated. By the way, what is this "snow" you keep talking about? We had to run our air conditioners in this 80 degree weather here. Msg#:12940 *GENERAL* 01/17/89 14:19:23 From: JOHN MEALEY III To: STEVEN HARGUS (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 12804 (FLOPPY DD ERROR) The snow refers to our retarded weather forcasters.....they were moaning and groaning about a SEVERE WINTER STORM WARNING....(worse than a watch). So what that does in Washington, quicker than you can say nuclear war, is clean out the supermarkets of all fresh food & most canned goods, and the snow tire people have a field day. Two times, snow did not come when they said it would, and we got 5" when they said it would just sleet & rain. Hurrmmp! My problem with the computer repair has been basically solved. After something starts giving someone trouble, I replace it board level. Then I take the board and put it into storage for a while, and if the machine is finially fixed, I can dispose of the part as I like. I wonder what a .30-06 bullet would do to one of those trashy ST-225's? I will have to find ou. Garbage now comming up onthe screen. -John Msg#:12946 *GENERAL* 01/17/89 21:00:49 From: STEVEN HARGUS To: JOHN MEALEY III (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 12940 (FLOPPY DD ERROR) Speaking of weather forcasters, remember hurricane Gilbert? Supposed to be heading straight for us and covered the entire Gulf. All we got was a LIGHT sprinkle. This is wat usually happens: They predict that the latest hurricane will come in and destroy the city, everyone hoards the food and bottled water, someone says to tape up the windows (which wouldn't do any good, because putting a single cross of paper masking tape on a window won't keep it from breaking), then we wind up with record heat, and everyone with masking tape baked onto the window (it will never come off.) Anyone want a real live, authentic SHUGART ST506? Only a small problem with worn-out spindle bearings.... Would love to trade for a ST225.... Msg#:13029 *GENERAL* 01/19/89 19:32:34 From: JEFF JENSEN To: JOHN MEALEY III (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 12631 (FLOPPY DD ERROR) John, did you ever resolve your floppy disk problem at work? I saw your notes, but it sounded like you were getting some good help and I was tied up fighting aligators. - - Jeff Msg#:13108 *GENERAL* 01/21/89 16:09:09 From: BYRON BLAKE To: STEVEN HARGUS (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 12946 (FLOPPY DD ERROR) Steven, What is the capacity of the ST506? How many MB and what has spintest or coretest reported on its access speeds? BTW, people in general tape up their windows prior to a forecasted hurricane not in hopes to prevent it from breaking, but from stopping the glass from shattering into millions of pieces and flying all over the place causing death and injury. Byron Msg#:13193 *GENERAL* 01/23/89 14:38:46 From: JOHN MEALEY III To: JEFF JENSEN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 13029 (FLOPPY DD ERROR) Jeff, I solved them ok, I taped the B drive shut and told her not to use it until I replaced it.......could be a loooooooonnnngggg time before I do that because she does not need a 2nd drive. It is not the controller. -john Msg#:13200 *GENERAL* 01/23/89 18:00:15 From: JEFF JENSEN To: JOHN MEALEY III (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 13193 (FLOPPY DD ERROR) Now there is a pragmatic solution to a problem. As long as you can take the heat from her, you should be in good shape. As camoflage (sp), you could get one of those floppy locks that insert into the drive slot and lock in place. If anyone asks, you can say its part of the new security system. - - Jeff Msg#:13460 *GENERAL* 01/29/89 19:13:35 From: STEVEN HARGUS To: JOHN MEALEY III (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 13193 (FLOPPY DD ERROR) Oh, the ST506 has about 4-5 M of space in a full-height drive (I know a guy who throws these things away....) Taping up a 4'x8' picture window with two strips of paper masking tape won't do any thing. To do any good, you really should use strapping tape and cover the glass more. For a large picture window, just board it up. Msg#:13515 *GENERAL* 01/30/89 14:42:38 From: JOHN MEALEY III To: STEVEN HARGUS (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 13460 (FLOPPY DD ERROR) One of the chemical companies has come out with a film coating or some such thing that protects against violent attack......basically an improved version of auto safety glass for folks who live in crime areas...(D.C? naw just a few druggies shooting each other). This product would protect against wind damage, as well as particals being thrown against it. I'll dig up the manufatcure's name if anyone wants it. By The Way: I am considering relocating to the northeast, Maine, or to the North-Midwest. I hope to have this done by the start of 1990. That should take care of my wind problems, now I just have to get a car heater. -John Msg#:13535 *GENERAL* 01/30/89 22:29:19 From: STEVEN HARGUS To: JOHN MEALEY III Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 13515 (FLOPPY DD ERROR) I seem to remember something about this somewhere.... Basically a gel coating .... Now I remember, it was a means of laminating windshields to make them shatterproof : Traditional windshields have a layer of glass, a layer of plastic, and a layer of glass. The plastic keeps the glass pieces from falling out. This new method has a fourth layer, of plastic, on the inside. Somehow keeps the glass from shattering. Biggest problem, believe it or not, was how to attach a rear-view mirror to the plastic layer without it falling off... You cannot prevent glass from breaking, simply because it is literally a very slow-moving liquid. Glass shatters when the surface tension is broken. Pound for pound, glass is actually much stronger, more durable, and much, much more flexible than steel. Back to the subject, I strongly doubt that a simple coating would prevent glass from breaking, especially if a ten-pound rock were hurled by 100-mph winds through a plate-glass window. Even still, such methods as laminated glass and coated glass are much too expensive to replace everytime a hurricane shows up in the Gulf. Msg#:13553 *GENERAL* 01/31/89 12:22:33 From: BOB PADDOCK To: STEVEN HARGUS (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 13535 (FLOPPY DD ERROR) Check out: "An Investigation of the Impact Resistance of Glazing Materials for Railroad Vehicles" by John A. Rakaczky September 1979; US Army Armament Research and Development Command Ballistic Reseach Laboratory Aberdeen Proving Ground, Maryland ARBRI-MR-02955. NITS ADA 077119, from the Department of Commerecs (I have the whole address around here some place if you want it). It explaines what happens when a train engein run's into the corrner of a cement block susspended in the enterance of a tunnle, it also talks about bulleit proofing, using "Glazing Materials". Is that close enough to a 100 MPH wind? What does this have to do with (FLOPPY DD ERRORS)?? Amazing what you find under some of the headings on here :-).... Msg#:13562 *GENERAL* 01/31/89 20:31:45 From: STEVEN HARGUS To: BOB PADDOCK (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 13553 (FLOPPY DD ERROR) I don't know where we got off track (tee-hee.) Does anyone out there know what the original thread was? Msg#:13592 *GENERAL* 02/01/89 09:10:21 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: STEVEN HARGUS (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 13562 (FLOPPY DD ERROR) Just keep hitting the "-" key and you'll eventually end up back at the original message. Msg#:13593 *GENERAL* 02/01/89 09:13:03 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: STEVEN HARGUS (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 13562 (FLOPPY DD ERROR) Wait a minute. You're the one who started this tangent by talking about hurricane Gilbert! :-) Msg#:13632 *GENERAL* 02/01/89 22:38:26 From: STEVEN HARGUS To: KEN DAVIDSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 13593 (FLOPPY DD ERROR) I was just wondering if anyone remembered. Msg#:12632 *GENERAL* 01/09/89 16:39:09 From: MARK PAYTON To: ALL Subj: PCLOCK.ARC PROGRAM The file PCLOCK.ARC is now uploaded (I hope). According to the documentation, it will allow multiple password protection for the hard disk. I have not used this version of the software. I have used an earlier version and it performed as expected. The multiple passwords ostensibly allow users access only to certain portions of the hard disk. Hope this helps. Msg#:12634 *GENERAL* 01/09/89 17:31:12 From: RICHARD ANDREWS To: ALL Subj: VIDEO CHIP . Some time back I read a message here that made reference to an IC sold by Yamaha that was a replacement for the TI 9118 video display processor. I beleive that the device number was 9538. Does anyone have any information on this device of know a phone number for Yamaha? Thanks. Msg#:12637 *GENERAL* 01/09/89 18:19:37 From: DAVE EWEN To: ALL Subj: ITEM FOR SALE Data I/O 29B Programmer For Sale! $2500.00 gets you the following: 1 29B programmer 1 UniPack 1 large EPROM adapter for UniPack 1 LogicPack 1 303A-001 PAL adapter for LogicPack 1 303A-002 PAL adapter for LogicPack 1 303A-004 PAL adapter for LogicPack 1 ABEL software rev. 2.0 for PC compatibles 1 Promlink software (controlls programmer and downloads etc. from PC serial port) The above is completely functional and handles a large number of the standard parts including 15 ns PALs etc. as is, but needs about $1800.00 worth of upgrade to handle all the latest gee-whiz PALs etc. Of course this is a wonderful deal with the list price of a new machine (equivalent to an upgrade) being close to $8000.00. This is for a friend of a friend, so the above is all I know. For more details, call: Kenbe Goertzen (316) 722-8740 Msg#:12640 *GENERAL* 01/09/89 19:12:18 From: DAVE EWEN To: ALL Subj: NAVIGATION Can anyone recommend a good book on navigation electronics? I would like to have a better understanding of such things as magnetometers, rate gyros, and other such items. My interest was prompted by a discussion of what it would take to make a model aircraft fly independent of help from a ground operator. I started off thinking that this would be relatively easy but now it seems very very complex. The main problem is: how do you detect an accidental coordinated turn? - Thoughts? Ideas? Reference suggestions? Msg#:12720 *GENERAL* 01/12/89 00:20:08 From: STEVE WESTERFELD To: DAVE EWEN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 12640 (NAVIGATION) I have had a great deal of interest in this area myself and their seems to be very little good data published. Radio Control Modeler and the AMA magazine have published superficial information. Several people have used electrostatic sensors to detect the diference in potential at the wing tips to get leveling information. I would first try to mount a Kraft rate gyro in such a manner that it detects both yaw and roll and use it as a basic wing leveler. Using a gyro gets very complicated because of the need to wash out some constants that pop up. If I was to remotely controll its position I'd look to Loran c GOOD LUCK Msg#:12922 *GENERAL* 01/16/89 20:21:52 From: DAVE EWEN To: STEVE WESTERFELD (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 12720 (NAVIGATION) Loran is a strictly coastal phenomenon, isn't it? - What can you get out of a rate gyro? Is it a passive resistor-like strain gauge, or a voltage-producing piezo-electric thing? - What other offerings does Kraft have? All I have seen are the Futaba gyros in Tower. Msg#:13083 *GENERAL* 01/20/89 23:09:56 From: STEVE WESTERFELD To: DAVE EWEN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 12922 (NAVIGATION) Dave loran c is good almost everywhere in north america. There is a small area in the central US that does not have good coverage but I believe that is being taken care of with a new chain in the near future. A rate gyro is a device usually a spinning mass that remains rigid do to gyroscopic effect. Kraft inports a very small unit 2x2x2x ins aprox. that can sense a rate of change in one axis. If you would couple it between a receiver and a servo it would tend to counteract any change made by turbulance. If you mount it at the proper angle and adjust the gain it can provide as a basic wing leveler. I believe the old Mitchel autopilot used a modified rate of turn indicater to level the aircraft. I don't believe kraft inports any different items but I have seen adds for triple axis rate gyros in RCM or AMA mags. Msg#:13295 *GENERAL* 01/25/89 20:16:08 From: DAVE EWEN To: STEVE WESTERFELD (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 13083 (NAVIGATION) Steve, I'm probably in that one small area you mentioned. I am still not clear on the kraft gyro; is it like the futaba offerings that are meant to be directly inserted between the receiver and the servos? These units I have seen advertised. I assume they must take the raw gyro output and then create the correct 1.0-2.0ms servo pulse train to counteract the rotation rate that was sensed. I am not sure what I want at this point but I suspect that I would want to have access to the raw output. - You mentioned the wingtip sensors earlier. Someone here had said something about that. I can't see how that could work unless you were operating at the tremendous altitude of the D,E,F1, or F2 layers. Do you know more about that? Msg#:13617 *GENERAL* 02/01/89 18:51:13 From: DAVE EWEN To: STEVE WESTERFELD (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 13083 (NAVIGATION) Feel free to enlighten me with a description of the dreadful full-scale nav system, if you care to. I am sure the cost is incredible in itself, not to mention weight/complexity. I have sent for some gyro info. - Are you familiar with the 102" nosen trainer? Msg#:12644 *GENERAL* 01/10/89 01:06:17 From: PETER GOLDMANN To: EVERYBODY Subj: HARDDISK-CONTROLLERS I have several Disk Drives from Control Data and Fujitsu with SMD-Interfaces. Does anybody know of a interface-boards, that would let me use those drives with an IBM-XT or compatible??? I appreciate any help! Msg#:12663 *GENERAL* 01/10/89 20:09:55 From: DAVE EWEN To: DON AMATO (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 8106 (AIRCRAFT BUS) You might try DDC (ILC DATA DEVICE CORP.) (516) 567-5600. - They do a lot of military serial bus decoders/encoders. Msg#:13790 *GENERAL* 02/05/89 19:36:24 From: DON AMATO To: DAVE EWEN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 12663 (AIRCRAFT BUS) Thank's for the information. I will give them a call. Do you work in the aircraft industry? Don Amato Msg#:13934 *GENERAL* 02/08/89 22:54:40 From: DAVE EWEN To: DON AMATO (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 13790 (AIRCRAFT BUS) Yes, but ask me about VME, not ARINC. If DDC doesn't have anything you can also check with Harris Semiconductor. Msg#:12668 *GENERAL* 01/11/89 00:31:52 From: STEVE WESTERFELD To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: SOURCE OF INFORMATION I would like to compliment you on years of interesting reading in byte and I am sure many years of success with CCI. I would like to learn a little more than basic knowledge in the use of stepper motors and in the many different formats that industry uses to tell their computer controlled machines where to go. I also know nothing about lasers and am a little afraid to experiment without knowing what safety precautions I should take. Could you recommend a book or publication on these subjects. I am also curious how many mils that a standard ibm parralel port can source and sink. How bout in one of your upcoming projects you publish how many man hours were involved to bring the project together. Also I read the mail on someone who wants to use a computer to control the movement of a laser light source and you recommended using galvanometers. Honeywell use to produce some sort of transient anaylses box that used a galvanometer to deflect a light source on a piece of light sensitive paper. I bet they can be found surplus somewhere. Got a little wordy but this bullentin board must be popular for I seem to get a busy signal most of the time. I am looking forward to a IBM pc based ada board in a future CCI issue. Good luck and thanks m.W9|&hkKb*&Nrh[j'`;'i Msg#:12695 *GENERAL* 01/11/89 09:41:23 From: STEVE CIARCIA To: STEVE WESTERFELD (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 12668 (SOURCE OF INFORMATION) Soooo Many questions :-) Actually, other people around here (Bob Paddock, are you listening) are better at suggesting reference materials. Regarding parallel ports, LSTTL devices generally source .4 mils and sink about 2.6. I would try running much without bufferamps. As far as laser deflection, a D/A can be used to drive a galvamometer/mirror. How much and how fast is the tricky and expensive question. Glad you like CC INK. --Steve Msg#:12808 *GENERAL* 01/13/89 22:06:12 From: STEVEN HARGUS To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 12695 (SOURCE OF INFORMATION) As for laser deflection, the problem I encounter with galvanometers involves problems with mass, overshoot, and the very BIGGEST problem, feedback. How would you feed the position back to the control logic? A similar idea involved mounting a mirror onto a magnet (this sounds alot more complicated than it really is) that is suspended by another magnet and resting on a ball-shaped pivot so that it can swing in any direction freely (the magnet with the mirror, of course.) O.k. Now we use four coils arranged around the suspended magnet and attached to drivers and D/A's and other analog stuff. The coils distort the magnetic field and cause the levitated magnet (and the attached mirror) to turn. There are two problems with this. 1. You need a VERY high speed, VERY intellegent control system to keep the magnet suspended by controlling four coils at once. You probably need more than 8-bit D/A's and something with a little more steam than an 8051. You would definitely need a dedicated controller, preferably 16-bits. To get things REALLY moving at a high speed, encase the suspended magnet in a vacuum to remove air resistance and write the control program so that all four coils are partially energized, so that the magnet with the mirror is actually levitated. 2. The same basic problem with the galvanometer approach: feedback. How do you determine the magnet's position? One idea involves using hall-effect sensors to measure the magnetic field's strength and sending this into a set of A/D's (anyone know where to get hall-effect sensors?) - The idea that I am currently pursuing that seems to be the easiest to implement and offers the best chance of success is using a high-speed motor (like a capstan motor) and mounting an encoder on the end of it. My biggest problem is trying to find encoders that work fast enough to keep up with the high speed of the motor and still have a decent resolution. However, it's easy to design a controller to provide an exact positio Msg#:12813 *GENERAL* 01/13/89 23:25:07 From: ALEXANDER SCHNEIDER To: STEVEN HARGUS (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 12808 (SOURCE OF INFORMATION) What about widening the beam a bit and scanning the screen in an even raster pattern? Msg#:12838 *GENERAL* 01/14/89 13:40:12 From: BOB PADDOCK To: STEVEN HARGUS (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 12808 (SOURCE OF INFORMATION) The December 1988 issue of NASA Tech Briefs has some thing in it that might solve the feedback problem: "Microwave Deflection Sensor: Movement is meaasured via the phase of the reflection." by Lyndon B. Johnson Space Center, Houston, Texas. MSC-20974 Tech Brief V12 # 11 Summery: "The Microwave Deflection Sensor includes a homodyn Doppler-radar transceiver and digital signal-processing circuitry to measuree the change in phase shift as the target deflects." They show some one beating on the target with a hammer to 'deflect' it; I wonder what that is to prove? Other than what appears on page 36 of this tech brief no further documentation is avaiable. Could you subsitute part of the LASER beam for the Microwave, sence you are already going to have that as part of the set up? Msg#:12860 *GENERAL* 01/14/89 21:42:21 From: ALEXANDER SCHNEIDER To: BOB PADDOCK (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 12838 (SOURCE OF INFORMATION) I understand heterodyning, but what is homodyning? Msg#:12870 *GENERAL* 01/15/89 01:27:03 From: KEITH TUCHOLSKI To: STEVEN HARGUS (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 12808 (SOURCE OF INFORMATION) TO ADD MY TWO CENTS: I HAVE SEEN A DEMONSTRATION OF A GAVOMOMETER BASED LASER DIRECTING SYSTEM WHICH USED, QOUTE THE BUIDER, FEEDBACK FROM THE OP AMP" I SAW THE SYSTEM IN OPERATION AND IT WAS CAPABLE OF DRAWING A FAIRLY ELABORTE DESIGN. MAY BE THIS METHOD SHOULD NOT BE RULED OUT AT THIS POINT?? Msg#:12878 *GENERAL* 01/15/89 15:37:27 From: BOB PADDOCK To: ALEXANDER SCHNEIDER (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 12860 (SOURCE OF INFORMATION) I was hopping some one could tell me. There is no definition given. Seems to happen alot with info from these things. Msg#:12882 *GENERAL* 01/15/89 20:31:32 From: STEVEN HARGUS To: KEITH TUCHOLSKI (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 12870 (SOURCE OF INFORMATION) An interesting idea. Would the frequency response of a galvanometer change with its angle, i.e. the position of the coil in relation to the magnet? I am reminded of an old H.P. chromatography trick that used a temperature-controlled heater. The heater was made of a kind of metal (probably containing platinum) and the control circuitry designed so that during one-half of the 60-hertz, power is supplied through the heater, then during the next half the resistance of the wire is measured to determine the temperature. Perhaps a similar technique could work. By the way, instead of using a dedicated D/A, how about driving the coils directly from a micro-controller port line? Try using an 8051 with its bit-addressed port lines and a timer to generate pulse-width or pulse-number modulation signals to drive the coil. As per the hall-effect sensor, most sensors that I have found provide a TTL level logic signal. For this application, you would need an analog output sensor. Referring to EDN, I found one source for such a r device (I know its around here somewhere....) Msg#:12883 *GENERAL* 01/15/89 20:36:44 From: STEVEN HARGUS To: KEITH TUCHOLSKI (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 12870 (SOURCE OF INFORMATION) For "homodyning" perhaps it refers to using one signal instead of two signals beating each other as in hetrodyning. Let me look it up in my electronics dictionary....Ahhh yes, here we go... "homodyne reception - Also called zero-beat reception. A system of reception using a locally generated voltage at the carrier frequency." Hmmmm. Msg#:12925 *GENERAL* 01/16/89 21:27:14 From: ALEXANDER SCHNEIDER To: STEVEN HARGUS (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 12883 (SOURCE OF INFORMATION) Ok, so what does that mean? Msg#:12931 *GENERAL* 01/16/89 23:18:36 From: STEVEN HARGUS To: ALEXANDER SCHNEIDER (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 12925 (SOURCE OF INFORMATION) well....As it pertains to the microwave position detection system, it probably has to do with using a single microwave beam to generate a reference signal to compare with an unknown signal (?) to generate a beat signal whose frequency changes with position. Possibly this position is linear distance, not angular position as the laser system would probably require. Of course, this is only a guess.... Msg#:12948 *GENERAL* 01/17/89 21:10:04 From: STEVEN HARGUS To: BOB PADDOCK (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 12838 (SOURCE OF INFORMATION) By the way, I have a friend who SWEARS he saw a professor at the University of Houston deflect a laser beam DIRECTLY with an intense magnetic field. I don't know if I believe him, but he SWEARS it works.... If so, it would probably use a yoke three feet in diameter and solid copper wire and produce a deflection of only a minute or a few seconds of an arc, but how's that for a direct approach to a problem? Msg#:12960 *GENERAL* 01/18/89 07:21:18 From: BOB PADDOCK To: STEVEN HARGUS (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 12948 (SOURCE OF INFORMATION) Light is simply an other part of the electro-MAGNETIC spectrum why not deflect it with magnetis, other than maybe size, cost, and power consumption? Msg#:12992 *GENERAL* 01/18/89 22:04:58 From: STEVEN HARGUS To: BOB PADDOCK (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 12960 (SOURCE OF INFORMATION) Understood, but the size.... Msg#:12669 *GENERAL* 01/11/89 00:39:52 From: DALE NASSAR To: ALL Subj: OPT0-ISOLATOR POLARITY Does anyone know of any problems that can occur in a FET output opto-isolator if the source and drain connections are interchanged (in particular, the H11F3)? Thanks for any help Msg#:12697 *GENERAL* 01/11/89 12:08:33 From: BOB PADDOCK To: DALE NASSAR (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 12669 (OPT0-ISOLATOR POLARITY) If the FET has a gate protection diode, (I don't know if would or not, being internal to the opto?), the diode may biase the FET in such away that it seems to always be on. Msg#:12701 *GENERAL* 01/11/89 14:23:07 From: DALE NASSAR To: BOB PADDOCK (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 12697 (OPT0-ISOLATOR POLARITY) Bob, Thanks for the quick reply, I am trying to avoid altering a circuit board. The pinouts show no internal diode and tests on the breadboard check out both ways. Do you know of anything else that could cause problems? Thanks again, --Dale Msg#:12733 *GENERAL* 01/12/89 07:09:51 From: BOB PADDOCK To: DALE NASSAR (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 12701 (OPT0-ISOLATOR POLARITY) It realy depends on the FET that is used. The diode is the only thing that I know of. For example the Siliconics VN10KM says right in the data sheet that source and drain can be interchanged. Msg#:12742 *GENERAL* 01/12/89 09:51:43 From: STEVE CIARCIA To: BOB PADDOCK (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 12697 (OPT0-ISOLATOR POLARITY) Actually, I was going to answer the same thing. I've also accidentally installed FETs backwards and find they still work in some designs. Weird, but it happens. The answer may be nothing will happen. --Steve Msg#:12768 *GENERAL* 01/13/89 10:11:12 From: BOB PADDOCK To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 12742 (OPT0-ISOLATOR POLARITY) It seems to not matter MOST of the time. I got burned once by a 2N6660, and in that case the gate protection diode became this weired bias network, that I never realy could understand. Some day maybe some one will figure out how all of these electronic parts REALY work...... Msg#:12670 *GENERAL* 01/11/89 00:45:42 From: JERRY JOHNSON To: ALL Subj: BCC52C INTERRUPTS I AM CURRENTLY USING A BCC52 TO RECORD SHAFT VELOCITIES. I HAVE TRIED DIGITAL HALL EFFECTS TRANSDUCERS (SOURCING AND SINKING. WITH SCHMITT TRIGGERS), DIGITAL MAGNETORESISTIVE SENSORS, INCREMENTAL OPTICAL ENCODERS AND MAGNETICALLY OPERATED REED SWITCHES. THE PROBLEM IS THAT THE SYSTEM GENERATES PHANTOM INTERRUPTS. THE TIMER VALUES VARY WITH SOME INDICATING THAT THE SHAFT MAGNET IS AS MUCH AS 180 DEGREES AWAY FROM ANY OF THESE SENSORS WHEN A PHANTOM INTERRUPT OCCURS. THE PROBLEM OCCURS IN AN ASSEMBLY LANGUAGE INTERRUPT ROUTINE OR A SIMPLE BASIC PROGRAM SUCH AS: 10 ONEX1 100 20 GOTO 20 100 PRINT TIMER1,:TIMER1=0:RETI I HAVE TRIED USING NEGATIVE EDGE INTERRUPTS AS THIS IS THE ONLY ONE USABLE WITH T2EXT. I HAVE USED PULL-UP AND PULL-DOWN RESISTORS AND SHIELDED CABLE. THE SYSTEM IS A BCC52C, UPS-10,MB04 MOTHERBOARD (AND CARD CAGE) AND A TERMITE TERMINAL BOARD. THE PROBLEM STILL OCCURS WHEN ALL BUT THE BCC52 BOARD ARE REMOVED FROM THE CARD CAGE. ANY HELP WILL BE APPRECIATED. Msg#:12705 *GENERAL* 01/11/89 16:08:54 From: JEFF BACHIOCHI To: JERRY JOHNSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 12670 (BCC52C INTERRUPTS) Jerry, I don't think this is a phantom interrupt. Printing to the screen takes a bit of time (not always constant.) If you use this as line 100 you will see some improvement :100 A=TIMER1:TIMER1=0:PRINT A,:RETI Another place where errors creep in is the ONEX1 statement. After an INT is recognized, BASIC must finish the BASIC line it is executing before it will jump to your routine. So, you can see this is not meant for high-precision timing. You've noticed that the INT range here is about 15Hz (less=timer OVF) - 75Hz (higher=BASIC's loop execution time.) Try this machine language routine at 4013H (INT1): PUSH ACC MOV 8DH,R2 MOV 8BH,R0 MOV 8DH,#00H MOV 8BH,#00H MOV A,#9AH LCALL 30H MOV A,#90H LCALL 30H POP ACC POP PSW RETI This grabs the TH1 & TL1 and puts them into register pair R2:R0. Sets TIMER1 to zero, uses OPBYTE routines to get a 16 bit number and store it on the stack as floating point, then send it to the console port. A bit of house-cleaning and we're out! To use this routine, I place the OPCODES into DATA statements and XBY it into 4013H. This way it's all part of a BASIC program that I can PROG to EPROM. Put your INT on the INT1 input, and enable the INT interrupt by the IE=IE.OR.04H statement. Watch-it! Not checking for timer OVF so use the same general input ranges as above. Since the OPBYTE routines work through BASIC, the display routines are the upper limit, but the accuracy is there. jeff Msg#:12706 *GENERAL* 01/11/89 16:21:03 From: JEFF BACHIOCHI To: JERRY JOHNSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 12670 (BCC52C INTERRUPTS) Jerry, Lines 2 & 3 should be: MOV R2,8DH MOV R0,8BH Sorry! jeff Msg#:12698 *GENERAL* 01/11/89 12:12:09 From: BOB PADDOCK To: ALL Subj: SWAPPING CAPS-LOCK AND CONTROL KEYS I just got stuck with a Epson Equitey LT lap top computer at work. The CONTROL key and the CAPS-LOCK key are reversed from all of the other keyboards that I use; does any one know of a small program that will interchange CONTROL and CAPS-LOCK under MS-DOS? Msg#:12761 *GENERAL* 01/13/89 00:22:42 From: JOHN MUCHOW To: BOB PADDOCK (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 12698 (SWAPPING CAPS-LOCK AND CONTROL KEYS) PC Magazine has a utility that intercepts INT 9H, the keyboard hardware interrupt, this lets it swap the Ctrl and CapsLock keys. I don't know what issue it's in but it's part of the disk enclosed in the PC Mag DOS Power Tools book by Paul Somerson. I have a copy of the utility. I could mail you it in exchange for a blank disk or I guess I could upload it (I would have to learn how first). Let me know which is best. Oops, the name of the utility is IBMFIX. Msg#:12770 *GENERAL* 01/13/89 10:16:53 From: BOB PADDOCK To: JOHN MUCHOW (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 12761 (SWAPPING CAPS-LOCK AND CONTROL KEYS) If it is not copyrighed (Not allowed to post copyrighted stuff here with out permision of the auther), they please up load the file here, or send it to my system at (814) 437-5647. I ready to take a hamer to this keyboard..... Msg#:12775 *GENERAL* 01/13/89 12:06:51 From: BOB PADDOCK To: JOHN MUCHOW (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 12761 (SWAPPING CAPS-LOCK AND CONTROL KEYS) Thanks for the info. I found IBMFIX.ARC on an other system. It always helps to know the name of the thing your looking for....... Msg#:12803 *GENERAL* 01/13/89 21:32:31 From: JOHN MUCHOW To: BOB PADDOCK (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 12775 (SWAPPING CAPS-LOCK AND CONTROL KEYS) Glad I could help. I'm surprised that the utility was ARC'd, PC Magazine's version is only 963 bytes long! Msg#:12833 *GENERAL* 01/14/89 13:26:57 From: BOB PADDOCK To: JOHN MUCHOW (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 12803 (SWAPPING CAPS-LOCK AND CONTROL KEYS) There was a vary short .doc file, AR ARCs let you keep things to gether better... Msg#:12699 *GENERAL* 01/11/89 12:22:05 From: MIKE MCGUIRE To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: HARDWARE SUGGESTIONS Steve (or others): I would like some hardware configuration suggestions (what microcontroller setup to use) on how best to accomplish the below application. I want to develop a specific application to: control two DC micro-motors (3 to 8 oz-in torque, 20mA); sense from two photoelectric switches and count their interrupts (for positioning the motors); control 12 reed relays; read two push button switches; and receive and buffer requests from (and send status-data to) a separate AT computer. I have been prototyping this system with off-the-shelf devices from Alpha Products (using stepper motors), but I would like to customize a smart controller to reduce cost should I be fortunate enough to reach production. Because of software restrictions, my host AT must communicate to the motor controller and relay card through a serial-to-bus adapter card which helps boost my total cost to about $590. Also with this component system, the host AT must control the relays which consumes processor time I'd rather use elsewhere. Any input would be greatly appreciated. --Mike Msg#:12712 *GENERAL* 01/11/89 18:09:39 From: NATHAN ENGLE To: MIKE MCGUIRE (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 12699 (HARDWARE SUGGESTIONS) Mike, I may be out of bounds talking about a magazine besides CCI but here it goes anyway... I'm a big fan of Micro Cornucopia, and in the last couple of years they have been running articles by Bruce Eckel which cover the subjects you're interested in. First, Bruce did a mod to a cheap parrallel I/O card to get some I/O for his XT. I'd suggest using a card like that for your communication; either that or you could stick with serial if you really want. Bruce has also done a couple of articles on A/D using various sorts of inputs, one of which was a thermistor (should look a lot like your photo-resistor sensors) - AND he also did a couple of articles on driving things like steppers and relays and such. Bruce differs from Steve and the CCI gang in that he doesn't put together systems that are remotely "smooth" or "polished" (though they are just barely finished). Bruce's aim is more to demonstrate how to do a particular thing rather than putting together full systems. I learn a lot from the articles every time I read or re-read them. You could try to scrape up back issues of MicroC, or Bruce has also collected his series together into a book, "Computer Interfacing With C and Pascal". I got my copy direct from Bruce at his company in Seattle. Eisys 1009 N. 36th Street Seattle, WA 98103 I think the cost was $30, but I bet with this book you could eliminate at least $300 from your design costs. Msg#:12737 *GENERAL* 01/12/89 09:14:31 From: MIKE MCGUIRE To: NATHAN ENGLE (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 12712 (HARDWARE SUGGESTIONS) Thanks, Nathan. I think I will send off for the book! --Mike Msg#:12738 *GENERAL* 01/12/89 09:30:15 From: STEVE CIARCIA To: NATHAN ENGLE (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 12712 (HARDWARE SUGGESTIONS) I have no problems talking about Micro C here. I would consider us to have a more professional attitude about the quality of our designs, that's all. I guess the real answer to your question is quality and what volume you define production. Correct me if I'm wrong, but the Alpha system is really peripherals that are all directed from a host IBM PC. They have no local processor. This can be good or bad, depending upon your application. Micromint has similar I/O cards to those sold by Alpha as well as local CPU controlers like the BCC52 or BCC180. WIth the use of a local controller, you can still serially communicate with a PC but not involve the PC in directly controlling your relay cards. For a catalog or data sheets call John at 203-871-6170. If "production" means a 1000 boards, call me and we'll design a cost effective solution. If production means 40 boards, then figure out the best combination of someone's off the shelf product and don't try to reinvent the wheel. A design (perhaps illuded to in a Micro C article) is not necessarily a solution. Engineers are the last to admit that the design of a product is only 10% of what it takes to put it in a customer's hand. When that 10% fills 100% of what a magazine needs, however, it can appear like the job is done. Be careful, professional design and production quality is what you really want in the long run. Hobbyist designs usually only work in oneses. --Steve Msg#:12756 *GENERAL* 01/12/89 22:42:57 From: MARK LAMPKIN To: MIKE MCGUIRE (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 12699 (HARDWARE SUGGESTIONS) Mike...I was browsing the messages and came across your's...It just so happens that I am putting the finishig touches on a controller similar to your request...Mine has 8 reed relay ouputs,8 isolated inputs,2-8 bit analog inputs,and with very little extra could control your motors.Mine is based on the 68705P3 microcontroller.This chip has 20 parallel I/O lines,but if you needed more I/O,the next step would be to go to the 68705U3,which has 32 prallel I/O lines and more EPROM.I implemented serial communication with a software UART using 2 I/O pins for RS-232 and RS-422 comm links.I'd be happy to share the design and software with you if it is to your liking....Leave me a message....Mark Msg#:12762 *GENERAL* 01/13/89 01:04:47 From: NATHAN ENGLE To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 12738 (HARDWARE SUGGESTIONS) Great, I guess I'm not surprized to find tolerant, grown-up type attitudes in talking about other mags, but I'm glad nonetheless. Like CC Ink, MicroC does a very good job. The subject matter is different most of the time, but they have interesting perspectives. I wouldn't mind seeing CC Ink run a Semi-Official-Get-Together every year like MicroC does. I've never been to one of theirs yet, but they sound great and I'm going this year not matter what. I'm sure that a solution based around a microcontroller would be the least expensive for large volumes (instead of the PC clone used now). I guess you have to know "How Many?" before you can make those sorts of design decisions. Msg#:12766 *GENERAL* 01/13/89 10:05:02 From: STEVE CIARCIA To: MARK LAMPKIN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 12756 (HARDWARE SUGGESTIONS) Mark, how about sharing your design with the readers of CC INK. Since we seem to been all Intel processor bound around here, it would be nice to see the other side more often. I'm sure Cure would like to talk to you about it. --Steve Msg#:12776 *GENERAL* 01/13/89 14:29:38 From: MIKE MCGUIRE To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 12738 (HARDWARE SUGGESTIONS) The Alpha Products smart motor controller has an onboard Z80 processor. It is a great product but I can't tailor it to fit my sequencing requirements without utilizing my host AT computer processor. In addition, I would like to use DC micro-motors instead of steppers for reasons of speed and cost. I'm going to talk to Mark Lampkin about his controller setup, it sounds like what I'm looking for. Thanks for the BBS! --Mike Msg#:12777 *GENERAL* 01/13/89 14:30:32 From: MIKE MCGUIRE To: MARK LAMPKIN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 12756 (HARDWARE SUGGESTIONS) Mark, I would really like to talk to you about your controller. Can you give me your phone number or address so I can contact you? Thanks! --Mike Msg#:12780 *GENERAL* 01/13/89 17:05:33 From: MARK LAMPKIN To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 12766 (HARDWARE SUGGESTIONS) Steve...I'll send the disgn info and specifications in,ASAP...I'd be happy to show som Mot designs...Mark Msg#:12781 *GENERAL* 01/13/89 17:08:37 From: MARK LAMPKIN To: MIKE MCGUIRE (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 12777 (HARDWARE SUGGESTIONS) Mike...You can get hold of me @Home...(313)884-8759...Office (313)885-0414...Car(313)670-8398...Fax(313)885-7114...I travel alot,so,weekends at home are best...Mark Msg#:12784 *GENERAL* 01/13/89 17:16:28 From: MARK LAMPKIN To: NATHAN ENGLE (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 12762 (HARDWARE SUGGESTIONS) Microcontrollers are cheaper than most people thik...Sure the 8751/52 are in the $45-$70 range,when you add the addt'l circuitry to make it happen,package it and then market it the product will probably run $400-$700 for a typ. application....Most AT/XT's start above that price in a usable form....Go to volume,(i.e.,metal mask),on the CPU chip and now the chip costs $3-$5 bucks...The overall impact is only $40-60 for the Eprom,not hundreds to thousands of dollars.....By the way...Mot's 68705 family costs $8 and up fOwqor the Eprom version microcontroller...More saved....Mark Msg#:12700 *GENERAL* 01/11/89 12:54:24 From: MICHAEL POLAK To: ALL Subj: PC PURSUIT According to an article in the January 9 Info World, the pricing structure of PC Pursuit has been changed. The basic monthly fee will be increased from $25.00 to $30.00 per month. This will allow the subscriber 30 hours or the networks use. Any use over 30 hours per month will be charged $4.50 per hour. Any use over 60 hours per month will be charged $7.50 per hour. This pricing becomes effective on Februrary 1. Msg#:12707 *GENERAL* 01/11/89 17:04:11 From: T NGUYEN To: NATHAN ENGLE, MARK PAYTON Subj: HARD DISK Thank so lot for your reply and you are very helpful. See you again. Msg#:12713 *GENERAL* 01/11/89 18:42:46 From: ALEXANDER SCHNEIDER To: ALL Subj: POLICE LIDAR I just read in a recent (don't know how recent) Autoweek that a laser equivalent of police radar has been developed and is being look at by law enforcement agencies. Its advantages are that it can pick out one car from a group and is hard to detect before you are clocked. It is illegal to jam police radar, but is it illegal to transmit continuously with an IR laser device? Assuming they don't make this illegal, a power supply and a couple of diode lasers (assuming that's what they're using) could render it useless. They wouldn't be allowed to use CO2 lasers for safety reasons, right? However, the unit is said to operate at 1500-2500 feet, beyond diode laser range? Msg#:12743 *GENERAL* 01/12/89 10:26:50 From: STEVE CIARCIA To: ALEXANDER SCHNEIDER (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 12713 (POLICE LIDAR) I'm using a IR diode laser in my driveway and I'd say it's good for 2000 feet even though I'm only usig it for 200 at the moment. There has been a lot of discussion on diode lasers around here. Scan the message base for more. --Steve Msg#:12758 *GENERAL* 01/12/89 22:54:42 From: MARK LAMPKIN To: ALEXANDER SCHNEIDER (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 12713 (POLICE LIDAR) I worked with a unit for industrial application that used a HeNe laser tube...2mw ouput,quite safe and legal...It worked on a patentted principal for spinning a mirror at a very precise rate...Knowing the rate,the time to scan it's arc and afew other variable you could determine the size and the position of an object in it's field of view....By re-arranging the equation,velocity could be determined....The police unit might not be very far fetched...Harder to avoid,(if not impossible),and almost impossible to be prepared for....Mark Msg#:12812 *GENERAL* 01/13/89 23:19:19 From: ALEXANDER SCHNEIDER To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 12743 (POLICE LIDAR) They say the beam is several feet wide at 1000 ft, and they sense it, so it's twice that distance. How do you suppose they do the frequency checking for speed measurement? Hmm, it says it take a second or two for a speed reading, so it might just do two time of flight distance measurements and compare the distances. Msg#:12903 *GENERAL* 01/16/89 14:38:56 From: STEVE CIARCIA To: ALEXANDER SCHNEIDER (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 12812 (POLICE LIDAR) I believe that laser doppler systems use phase difference detectors rather than absolute speed of light measurement. --Steve Msg#:12926 *GENERAL* 01/16/89 21:29:23 From: ALEXANDER SCHNEIDER To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 12903 (POLICE LIDAR) How about this. You modulate a laser diode with an RF frequency signal. You bounce this off the target, and heterodyne the output of the photosensor with the input to the laser diode, thus getting a beat frequency related to the speed of the target. According to the theory behind Doppler velocity measurement, this should work. Msg#:12977 *GENERAL* 01/18/89 11:43:42 From: STEVE CIARCIA To: ALEXANDER SCHNEIDER (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 12926 (POLICE LIDAR) That may in fact be the way it all really works. The phase difference I mentioned may be the phase difference of the modulated wave and not the laser it self. I really haven't investigated it closely enough. --Steve Msg#:12714 *GENERAL* 01/11/89 21:36:11 From: JERRY JOHNSON To: JEFF BACHIOCHI (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 12705 JEFF,THANKS FOR YOUR INTEREST IN MY PROBLEM. I INCLUDED THE REFERENCE TO BASIC AS A REPEATABLE EXAMPLE THAT NEARLY DUPLICATES THE DATA PRODUCED BY AN ASSEMBLY LANGAGUE ROUTINE. THE DIFFERENCE IN ACCURACY BEING ASSOCIATED WITH BASIC. BECAUSE OF THE LIMITATIONS OF BASIC I CHOSE TO WRITE AN ASSEMBLY LANGAGUE SERVICE ROUTINE. I START WITH A LJMP AT 4013H TO MEMORY LOCATION 4200H. (I ALSO HAVE ANOTHER ROUTINE USING THE T2EXT INTERRUPT AND VECTOR ADDRESS.) AT 4200H AND ABOVE I HAVE THE FOLLOWING ROUTINE. CLR TR1 PUSH DPL PUSH DPH PUSH ACC MOV DPH,18H MOV DPL,19H MOV A,8BH MOV 8BH,#10H SETB TR1 MOVX @DPTR,A INC DPTR MOV A,8DH MOV 8DH,#00H MOVX @DPTR,A INC DPTR MOV A,20H MOV 20H,#00 MOVX @DPTR,A INC DPTR MOV 18H,DPH MOV 18H,DPL POP ACC POP DPH POP DPL POP PSW RETI I USED MEMORY ADDRESSES 18H AND 19H AS A POINTER TO NEXT DATA SAVE LOCATION IN MEMORY BECAUSE BASIC DOESN'T USE RB3. I ALSO CHOSE 20H TO KEEP TRACK OF TIMER1 OVERFLOWS BY WRITING: INC 20H POP PSW RETI AT LOCATION 401BH. THE ASSEMBLY ROUTINE SAVES THE LOW BYTE OF TIMER1 FOLLOWED BY THE HIGH BYTE OF TIMER1 FOLLOWED BY THE NUMBER OF TIMER1 OVERFLOWS SINCE LAST SAVE. ALSO I AM SETTING TIMER1 TO A VALUE THAT ATTEMPTS TO COMPENSATE FOR THE TIME THE TIMER IS TURNED OFF. (I MAY HAVE A LITTLE PROBLEM THERE AND I PRESENTLY DON'T KNOW OF A WAY TO TRY TO COMPENSATE FOR THE LATENCY OF BASIC EXCEPT AS % ERROR) AFTER THE DATA IS ACCQUISITIONED I HAVE A BASIC PROGRAM THAT READS THE DATA FROM MEMORY AND DISPLAYS IT IN DECIMAL. THE VALUES GENERATED WILL SHOW 45000 TICKES OF TIMER1 FOR A VARABLE NUMBER OF DATA POINTS. AT A RANDOM POINT THE DATA MIGHT SHOW TWO CONCURRENT NUMBERS LIKE 20000 THEN 25000 WITH NO OVERFLOWS, OR IT MAY BE 7650 FOLLOWED BY 37350, OR 41544 FOLLOWED BY 3456. THESE ARE THE NUMBERS I REFER TO AS BEING GENERATED BY PHANTOM INTERRUPTS, AND THEY DRIVE ME MAD!! IN A SAMPLE OF 4000 SAVES THE NUMBER OF BAD DATA POINTS VARIES FROM 0% TO 1% OF THE DATA. MOST OF THE BAD NUMBERS ARE ADDITIVE TO A GOOD SAMPLE, BUT THERE ARE TIMES WHEN THERE ARE 3 OR 4 CONCURRENT BAD NUMBERS MAKING THE USE OF A SOFTWARE ROUTINE TO CHECK VALIDITY OF DATA QUITE AN UNDERTAKING. AT PRESENT I AM TRYING TO PROVE THAT MY PROGRAM LOGIC IS CORRECT FOR CALCULATING SHAFT VELOCITIES USING PERIOD MEASUREMENT AND THAT MY SENSOR SELECTION AND USAGE IS WORKABLE. THANKS AGAIN, JERRY. Msg#:12724 *GENERAL* 01/12/89 02:17:23 From: JERRY JOHNSON To: JEFF BACHIOCHI (Rcvd) Subj: FOLLOW UP TO MSG# 12714 JEFF, ITS'S 2:00 AM AND I JUST DETERMINED THAT MY PHANTOM INTERRUPTS ARE BEING CAUSED BY NOISE FROM THE A/C MOTOR USED TO DRIVE THE SUBJECT SHAFT. AS OF THIS MESSAGE MY SHIELDED CABLE APPEARS TO BE OVERRATED. APPARENTLY I NEED TO FURTHER ISOLATE THE INTERRUPT LINE. ANY SUGGESTIONS ON WHERE TO ATTACH THE SHIELD WIRE OR ON HOW TO DEAL WITH THE NOISE PROBLEM? THE END APPLICATION OF THIS CONTROLLER WILL BE A VERY NOISY ENVIRONMENT. JERRY P.S. MY ORIGINAL MESSAGE WAS 12714 AND MAY ONLY BE IN THE GENERAL AREA. SORRY. Msg#:12739 *GENERAL* 01/12/89 09:33:49 From: JEFF BACHIOCHI To: JERRY JOHNSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 12724 (FOLLOW UP TO MSG# 12714) Jerry, Nice to hear you've narrowed it down to AC interference. Try a schmitt opto isolator at the motor end with shielded twisted pair to EARTH ground. You should be able to calculate the # of timer counts from CLR TR1 to SETB TR1 and preload the right number. With these routines, BASIC does not have any control (as it does in the ONEX1 statement.) jeff Msg#:12729 *GENERAL* 01/12/89 02:59:37 From: GREG BELL To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: DIRECTION Steve- I certainly didn't mean to offend you. Don't get me wrong, I love INK, and I am still benefiting from your many articles in Byte. I'm not saying INK writers should change, just keep certain things in mind. I'm the type that loves to learn everything I can from a project, even if I don't plan to build it. I just feel a bit left out by the high cost of some of the projects. I'm a student, and can't divert as much cash as I would like to my hobby! (and major, incidentally). Again, don't take offense, just understand my viewpoint! I like the higher calibre projects... I'm not interested in LED flashers much anymore anyway! :-) But wait a sec.... the last INK had an LED flasher in it... ah, but that one was 8031 controlled! Wow, that was the longest response I've gotten from you yet... maybe I should stir up trouble more often? Naw. Thanks, and take it easy . GBell Msg#:12730 *GENERAL* 01/12/89 03:37:07 From: MARK WENNING To: ALL Subj: IMAGING CHIPS There was an old circuit cellar article about an optical Dram used as a camera - are these still available (and hopefully cheaper), or where would I find some info on similar chips ? The Imagewise, etc seems to spend a lot of hardware &software on getting video into memory - a CCD -type chip would be a lot cheaper, wouldn't it? (or are they expensvive? ) Toys R Us sells a kiddy camera for $99 that puts video on casset tape - one would think the imager would be some fraction of that.... Msg#:12745 *GENERAL* 01/12/89 10:41:41 From: STEVE CIARCIA To: MARK WENNING (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 12730 (IMAGING CHIPS) The IS-32 chip is still around and Micromint sells them if you want it. CCDs sound nice but they require a lot of fancy interfacing. Perhaps we'll have such a project but it is still easier to buy a camera rather than build one. The Fisher-Price camera is practically all custom ASIC. Good luck modifying it. There has been much discussion on it around here already. Do a search on the message base for more. --Steve Msg#:12746 *GENERAL* 01/12/89 10:42:22 From: NEIL CHERRY To: ALL Subj: HELPING THE HANDICAPPED I don't know if anybody has posted a message simular to this, but here it goes. The information I've been seeing post on this board could greatly help a handicapped person. Has CCink done any articles that would help handicapped people? Anybody out there got any suggestions. I think this would be a great article as well as a great help to a large group of people. NJC Msg#:12747 *GENERAL* 01/12/89 13:44:41 From: JOSEPH PUGLISI To: ALL Subj: ALARM SYSTEM I was wondering if someone could help me (acually I know someone can). I would like to interface about 70 door switches to a small computer. I had in mind my old C-64 that lieing around. I would like it to indicate exatly what switchs are open, or closed. The sofware for this is not my major problem. My problem is in how do I go about hooking up the hardware that is involved. I know that this is relativly simple, but you have to start somewhere. Thank you Joseph Puglisi Msg#:12749 *GENERAL* 01/12/89 15:29:21 From: NEIL CHERRY To: JOSEPH PUGLISI (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 12747 (ALARM SYSTEM) I'll check for articles that allow you to interface to the outside world with the comie computer. I think its the Radio electronics mag that had the article. BTW the 8 bit machines are perfect for that kind of work even a Timex-Sinclair. NJC Msg#:12759 *GENERAL* 01/12/89 23:03:28 From: MARK LAMPKIN To: JOSEPH PUGLISI (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 12747 (ALARM SYSTEM) The solution to this can be found by doing a survey of the area to be secured...If the doors are spread over a large area then the solution would be totally different than if there are a number of doors clustered together in relatively close proximity,namely,multiple groups of doors...For the latter condition,serial interface to some simple multiplexing circuitry could be the answer...Try to leave a little more detail in another message...Mark Msg#:12769 *GENERAL* 01/13/89 10:12:07 From: STEVE CIARCIA To: JOSEPH PUGLISI (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 12747 (ALARM SYSTEM) I don't have it in front of me but I believe there is an advertiser in the next CC INK (issue 7) that was offering control I/O interfaces for C-64 and other Commodore stuff. --Steve Msg#:14676 *GENERAL* 02/22/89 23:04:40 From: DAVID K. MERRIMAN To: JOSEPH PUGLISI Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 12747 (ALARM SYSTEM) There isa keyboard encoder chip by Harris semiconductor that might be just the thing for you. It's designed as a hex keypad encoder, but hooking two of them in parallel and using dpst switches, you could get an 8-bit value for the particular switch that was closed. Add a little support circuitry, and I think you would be in business, with say, a 7 or 8 chip circuit. If you can't find the Harris chip, then I suspect that about any keyboard encoder(s) would accomplish the same thing. <]Dave[> Msg#:14700 *GENERAL* 02/23/89 05:59:31 From: GARY LEAR To: JOSEPH PUGLISI Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 12747 (ALARM SYSTEM) National makes a chip (I unfortunately don't have a number in front of me) with some innocuous name of something like "Asynchronous Receiver Transmitter". It is essentially a hardware UART that doesn't need a processor to configure it. I used these in a solar home system that I designed. All of the light switches (up to 127) reported over a serial link to the host computer (a custom Z-80 system). Each chip has an address bus that is configured with DIP switches, and a data bus for temperature data, switch conditions, etc. A word about this kind of system, use one of the data lines as a latched condition line. By having a seperate 8 input gate and a simple RS latch continouly monitoring the switches you won't miss someone trying to defeat your system by monitoring the mux times. A valid read from the host can clear the latch. I hope this helps. Please contact me if you have questions. Good luck. --Gary Msg#:14749 *GENERAL* 02/23/89 19:50:36 From: JIM NELSON To: GARY LEAR (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 14700 (ALARM SYSTEM) Your national chip is the MM54240; I used it once many moons ago. Msg#:14792 *GENERAL* 02/24/89 04:16:02 From: GARY LEAR To: JIM NELSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 14749 (ALARM SYSTEM) Jim, you are undoubtly correct about the National chip. Unfortunately, I am not. It was quite late when I sent that message yesterday, and I discovered upon waking that I had goofed. The chip that I used is a Motorola part; MC14469. It has a 7 bit address and a 7 bit data field. It can operate up to 4800 baud. I will have to check out the National chip. Do you remember which data book it used to be in (sounds like the old MOS/LSI numbers)? Thanks for the comment. --Gary Msg#:14845 *GENERAL* 02/24/89 19:47:42 From: MARK LAMPKIN To: GARY LEAR (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 14700 (ALARM SYSTEM) I think the chip being referred to is the MM52240...I don't know if it is still available from Nat Semi...I used it 5 or 6 years ago in an industrial monitoring system.It was pretty neat in that it was one of the first comm chips to use pulse width modulation for communication....Look in the olcon "MOS D Boo{".......Mark q Msg#:14853 *GENERAL* 02/24/89 22:16:43 From: GARY LEAR To: MARK LAMPKIN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 14845 (ALARM SYSTEM) Thanks for the info. I will have to scratch my curiousity bump. --Gary Msg#:12748 *GENERAL* 01/12/89 15:25:56 From: NEIL CHERRY To: MARK BALCH (Rcvd) Subj: 6800 ASSEMBLER I think if you try the following only it might work. As I remember that assembler doesn't use the Motorola assembler syntax. . org $0100 . temp rmb 1 . ldaa #25 . adda #35 . adda #$32 . adda #%10001 . staa . temp end I haven't check the assembler yet and I'm not sure that the %10001 is used for binary and the $32 is used for hex. They may use different syntax as the original programmer was not a Moto' person. Also the temp end looks a little wierd. Try a 1 line assembly file and try using the the commands like 'nop', txy, tyx. Those might not be the right syntax or for this processor either, I think I may have worked with 1 too many processors. njc Msg#:12849 *GENERAL* 01/14/89 13:54:01 From: MARK BALCH To: NEIL CHERRY (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 12748 (6800 ASSEMBLER) Don't worry about too many processors, at least you have alot of experience. I'll try that example that you gave me. Hope all works out or else I'll do it by hand. Thanks, Mark Msg#:12750 *GENERAL* 01/12/89 15:30:22 From: JOHN APPLEYARD To: ALL Subj: HEATH COMPUTER-BASED OSCILLOSCOPE Has anyone put together the kit of the Computer based occiloscope that Heath/Zenith sells for about 400 bucks. I need a scope to do some simple checking and thought this might do the trick. Any insight why I should or shouldn't buy it would be greatly appreciated. Thanks. Msg#:12789 *GENERAL* 01/13/89 18:47:36 From: KENT CEDOLA To: JOHN APPLEYARD (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 12750 (HEATH COMPUTER-BASED OSCILLOSCOPE) I put one together. If you live to solder, get it. I'm not very happy with it, and just got a Heath 25mhz oscilloscope the other day. First it's a real pain if you want a quick look at a circuit, as you have to get your computer run and running first and load the scope software. The scope software only supports CGA modes (all source code included). And there is a delay during the digitizing/transfer data to the computer phase. But it does have it's advantages. You can save your traces and reload them. You can have two live (almost) traces up and two memory (from disk) displayed (total of four). If would be possible to write a program that would ask the user to put the probe at various places on a piece of equipment and determine if there any problems by comparing the current trace to the correct one stored on disk (neat). Like everything else, it's all up to what you want it for. Msg#:12754 *GENERAL* 01/12/89 20:09:57 From: JERRY JOHNSON To: JEFF BACHIOCHI (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 12739 (BCC52) JEFF, AGAIN THANKS FOR YOUR INTEREST. THE END USE OF THIS PROJECT IS IN AN AUTOMOTIVE ENVIROMENT, SO UNFORTUNATELY, EARTH GROUND WILL NOT BE AVAILABLE. THE AC MOTOR THAT WAS CAUSING THE PROBLEM WAS USED FOR BENCH WORK ONLY, AND HAS BEEN REPLACED TODAY BY A BATTERY POWERED DC MOTOR. THE PHANTOM INTERRUPTS (NOISE ) NO LONGER OCCUR WHEN THE SHAFT IS DRIVEN BY THIS MOTOR, BUT IF THE AC MOTOR IS STARTED IN THE VICINITY OF THE INTERRUPT LINE THEN THE NOISE OFCOURSE RETURNS. THE DEGREE OF SUSCEPTIBILITY ALSO INCREASES AS THE LENGTH OF THE INTERRUPT LINE INCREASES. THE AC MOTOR NOW HAS BECOME A DEVICE FOR NOISE SIMULATION. I AM USING SHIELDED AUDIO CABLE FROM RADIO SHACK AT PRESENT, BUT THAT WILL BE REPLACED WITH THE TWISTED PAIR YOU SUGGESTED TOMORROW. I ALSO HAVE HAD THIS NOISE PROBLEM WHEN THE BCC52 WAS INSTALLED IN THE AUTO. SINCE THERE IS NO ALTERNATOR OR CHARGING SYSTEM AT ALL IN THIS VEHICLE, I BELIEVE THE NOISE IS PRODUCED BY THE IGNITION SYSTEM. WHEN THE SYSTEM IS IN THE AUTO THE NOISE IS MUCH MORE RANDOM THAN THE BENCH PROBLEM AND SOMETIMES DOES NOT OCCUR AT ALL. I FEEL IF I CAN SHIELD THE INTERRUPT LINES ON THE BENCH SO THAT THE AC MOTOR WILL NOT AFFECT THEM AT ANY DISTANCE, THEN THE PROBLEM WILL BE REDUCED IN THE VEHICLE. ALTHOUGH I KNOW THAT THERE MAY BE OTHER SOURCES OF NOISE IN THE CAR. I DON'T COMPLETELY UNDERSTAND THE SUGGESTION ABOUT THE OPTO ISOLATOR. WOULD THEY SOMEHOW MAKE THE INTERRUPT LINE LESS SUSCEPTIBLE TO THE NOISE? IF I PUT THEM ON THE BOARD AS CLOSE AS POSSIBLE TO THE INTERRUPT LINE WHOULD THEY SHORTEN THE LENGTH OF CONDUCTOR THAT IS RECIEVING THE NOISE, OR WOULD THE OPTO ISOLATOR PASS THE NOISE, THAT WAS BEING IMPOSED BETWEEN THE SENSOR AND THE ISOLATOR? I HAVE READ IN INTEL'S LITERATURE ABOUT DECOUPLING, BUT THE SHORTNESS OF THE ARTICE DOES NOT DO JUSTICE TO THE TOPIC. ANY SUGGESTIONS ON SHIELDING, DECOUPLING OR SOURCES OF REFERENCE MATERIALS WOULD BE MUCH APPRECIATED . I INCLUDED THE CODE FOR SETTING THE TIMER TO A COUNT OF 10H TO VERIFY THAT I FULLY UNDERSTOOD THE NUMBER OF TICKS OF THE TIMER DURING THE EXECUTION OF ANY ASSEMBLY INSTRUCTION. EXAMPLE: LCALL CODE ADDR = 2 TICKS MUL AB = 4 TICKS INC DPTR = 1 TICK I HAVE A BASIC PROGRAM THAT SETS UP MY ENVIRONMENT (PUTS THE INTERRUPT ROUTINE IN MEMORY AND ENABLES THE INTERRUPTS ON POWER UP) AND THEN EXECUTES A CLOSED LOOP THAT DETECTS WHEN DATA MEMORY IS NEAR FULL. EXAMPLE: 10 A=DBY(18H):IF A>71H THEN EXIT ELSE 10 BECAUSE OF THIS I FELT THAT I COULD ONLY ALLOW FOR TIMER TICKS ASSOCIATED WITH THE JB INTBIT,STK PUSH PSW LJMP 4013H OF BASIC AND WILL FIGURE OUT THE PROBLEM WITH THE DIFFERENCE IN THE JB INTBIT STATEMENT WHEN I NEED TO FOR PRECISION OF DATA. I FIGURED THAT THE LATENCY OF THE ABOVE BASIC STATEMENT BEING INTERRUPTED COULD ONLY BE DEFINED AS % ERROR AS I DON'T KNOW HOW TO DECIDE WHERE BASIC WAS EXECUTING IN THAT LINE WHEN THE INTERRUPTS OCCUR. IN THE INTEREST OF BREVITY I SEE THAT I HAVE WITHHELD NEEDED INFORMATION. PLEASE ACCEPT MY APOLOGIES. JERRY Msg#:12968 *GENERAL* 01/18/89 09:09:34 From: JEFF BACHIOCHI To: JERRY JOHNSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 12754 (REPLY TO MSG# 12739 (BCC52)) Jerry, The opto-coupler is meant to isolate the two systems, it would not filter out noise pickup. If you were sure the noise was being picked up in the transmission medium (the wire in this case) it might make sense to use a balanced transmission pair (RS-422) any noise induced on this pair is cancelled at the receiver. Or, change the medium to say... fiber optics! jeff Msg#:12771 *GENERAL* 01/13/89 10:31:02 From: NEIL CHERRY To: MARK BALCH (Rcvd) Subj: 6800 ASSEMBLER I checked the assemblers I have and I found that they are not all the same. But here is a few more suggestions. . Instead of using an LDA A use an LDAA or LDA. For an LDAB (LoaD Accumulator B) use LDB, etc, etc, etc. As for the NAM try NAME. As for hex values try 33H instead of $33, for binary try 01110B instead of %01110. The last 2 examples indicates that the user is not a motorola assebly program (may be an intel programmer???). I have assembler source code for the 63701, 6801, 6809, 6502/C02, 68000, 32000, 8051/52, 8031/32, and maybe a few more. All the code is in C and I don't own an IBM PC/CRONE, I may never if I can get away with it. Its kind of hard to ignore PC/CRONEs. NJC Msg#:12850 *GENERAL* 01/14/89 13:56:29 From: MARK BALCH To: NEIL CHERRY (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 12771 (6800 ASSEMBLER) You don't own an IBM cRone? What's wrong with IBM, true there are many problems, but everything has problems. I like the vast compatibility and the flexibility. SO far my generic cLone has been very good to me. I assume that you are a MAC person... I now have lots of combinations to try with my assembler, it'll take alot of time, but I'll announce my results next week when I call. Bye, Mark Msg#:12782 *GENERAL* 01/13/89 17:11:38 From: TOM CURDA To: ALL Subj: DIGITAL PAPER I've been seeing some ads from a company called Imagedata for a product they call Digital Paper. Apparently, this is a new development of theirs, and they are looking for hardware developers to make use of it. What it is, is a storage medium of incredibly high density. They claim that a 12" reel can hold up to 2 Terabytes. A single 5 1/4" diskette would hold 1.5 gigabytes; they claim the material can be cut into virtually any shape. A while back, there was a thread regarding a way to distribute software, etc. Digital paper might be a means to accomplish this. Comments??? Msg#:12785 *GENERAL* 01/13/89 17:32:10 From: MATT OLSON To: STEVE CIARCIA AND ALL Subj: PC BOARD CONNECTIONS I've got a question regarding the interconnection of two PC boards. I have an analog board and a digital board that need to communicate via an A/D and D/A converter, and I was wondering what would the best way to go about this to maintain signal integrity. Should the converters be put on the analog board and run the data bus,control and select lines via a ribbon cable, say with every other wire on the ribbon ground, over to the digital board, or should the converters be put on the digital board and the analog signals be connected via a shielded cable? The data bus will be buffered and the length of the connection will be about 3 to 4 inches. Analog signals will be in the range of 0 to 2.5 volts. There will also be a small DC motor operating within about five inches of the boards. How about a backplane type setup? Is there any rule of thumb to follow? Thanks for any help you can offer. Matt. Msg#:12788 *GENERAL* 01/13/89 17:46:24 From: DOUG CROMPTON To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 11592 (X-10 CONTROLLED XMAS LIGHTS) Thanks Steve, Sorry for the delayed reply. I have been away on my honeymoon! Sounds like a good way to do it. Those Dimmer modules and Amateur Radio just do not coexist! When I get alittle more time I am going to try some noise reduction schemes and will report what I find out. By the way I still have the old DG (Digital Group) computer stuck in a corner. I can't bring myself to throw it out, which is about all I could do with it. It still works fine. Every once in awhile I turn it on. Oh the good old days! I ported all of the CPM stuff over to an Ampro which I still use fairly often. We still have a group of DGers (now PCers) that get together regularly in the Phila. area. Have a Happy New Year! Doug Msg#:12790 *GENERAL* 01/13/89 19:36:07 From: STEVE CRANE To: ALL Subj: BBS SYSTEMS 1 HI, I WAS WONDERING WHERE I CAN GET A BBS LIST?? I NEED ONE QUITE BADLY. THIS IS ABOUT THE ONLY BBS SYSTEM I KNOW OF. I WOULD APPRECIATE A REPLY! THANK YOU, STEVE CRANE Msg#:12895 *GENERAL* 01/16/89 09:06:47 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: STEVE CRANE Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 12790 (BBS SYSTEMS) Are you looking for a nationwide list or a Connecticut list? And are you interested in the Amiga, Atari, CP/M, Mac, IBM PC, or some other machine? I can post a Connecticut list for you, but someone else will have to help out if you're looking for a nationwide list. Msg#:12805 *GENERAL* 01/13/89 21:36:01 From: DALE REID To: TIM CORMIER (Rcvd) Subj: DISK DRIVE INFO Tim so time ago I received a tantalizing tidbit about a refernce for disk drive info. I left my name and address for a photocopy that you were going to fire off to me. Is it still possible to get that info? In case you didn't get the original message, let me leave my address again: Dale Reid, Rt#4, Box 231-L, Eau Claire, WI 54701. I would really appreciate getting that if ti wouldn't be too much trouble. Thanks Dale Msg#:12807 *GENERAL* 01/13/89 21:52:20 From: BRUCE JOHNSON To: ALL Subj: INTERCOMS I am about ready to build a new house, and one of the things I want to put into it is a decent intercom system. Probably about four stations. Any suggestions? The more off-the-shelf, the better. Thanks in advance. Msg#:12816 *GENERAL* 01/14/89 03:37:26 From: RON LEBLANC To: MARK BALCH (Rcvd) Subj: AS0.EXE Mark, I just downloaded the AS0.EXE assembler from this board. The following assembles without errors. org $0100 temp rmb 1 ldaa #25 adda #35 adda #$32 adda #%10001 staa end The following is the output which looks fine to me. It doesn't produce an assembled listing though. I guess you get what you pay for, eh? S10D010186198B238B328B119700B3 S9030000FC The documentation is a little on the light side also. zilch! ---Ron Msg#:12851 *GENERAL* 01/14/89 13:58:21 From: MARK BALCH To: RON LEBLANC (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 12816 (AS0.EXE) I'll try that code, thanks. Mabye I' can get the thing to work. If I have to, I can route the output to a text file and exit out the whitespace with my editor. I can then try using that, if it is standard Motorola format, to burn my EPROMs with. My fingers are crossed... Bye, Mark Msg#:12896 *GENERAL* 01/16/89 09:17:48 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: RON LEBLANC (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 12816 (AS0.EXE) Documention for all the ASx.EXE assemblers is posted right along with the assemblers. Take a closer look at the file list. Msg#:12817 *GENERAL* 01/14/89 04:37:04 From: EDDIE WHITE To: JEFF JENSEN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 11772 (X10 PROBLEMS...) i ran across the same problem once. one of the little chicklet buttons was sometimes sticking down. Msg#:12918 *GENERAL* 01/16/89 18:24:31 From: JEFF JENSEN To: EDDIE WHITE (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 12817 (X10 PROBLEMS...) Did the control unit indicate it was transmitting by lighting the LED? I disconnected all of my TX boxes except one and it still didn't work. - - Jeff Msg#:12958 *GENERAL* 01/18/89 01:29:22 From: EDDIE WHITE To: JEFF JENSEN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 12918 (X10 PROBLEMS...) Yes it did, only during the day time you couldn't always see 'cause of light comming in through the window. I finaly caught it one night. Msg#:12818 *GENERAL* 01/14/89 04:37:43 From: EDDIE WHITE To: DICK FAIRBANKS (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 11900 (TELEPHONE INFORMATION) in a one word answer, no. the e911 data base contains all of the information that some people pay major bucks to keep secret. the e911 center has information that the operating company operators do not have access to. another problem would be the location of the data base. across the river from me in shreveport is the local e911 center, but the data base is in new orleans - 500 some odd miles across the state. about the most you can get would be a "phone-book-on-tape" that most boc's sell. only its a mainframe type tape (ibm cms format or something). Msg#:12819 *GENERAL* 01/14/89 04:50:15 From: PATRICK TAFOYA To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 11871 (LOCATION PENDANTS) Steve, Thanks for your reply. I will look into the RF article in your book, as for the other parts of this, can you help me? I am not a wizzard at this as you are - really, and would like to know more. Any help would be greatly appreciated. If I can refer to some book or some past article, I will if you can direct me. Again, thankx for the info. - Pat Msg#:12910 *GENERAL* 01/16/89 15:23:53 From: STEVE CIARCIA To: PATRICK TAFOYA (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 12819 (LOCATION PENDANTS) Again, I ultimately plan to do an article on all this for a system as I described. When I know all the details, you'll know too. --Steve Msg#:12821 *GENERAL* 01/14/89 08:49:59 From: NEIL CHERRY To: ALL Subj: PT 68K ADDRESS I'm sorry if I don't remember who asked me for the address, I guess I'm up on 1 too many BBS's. But here is the address for: . . Peripheral Technology . 1480 Terrell Mill RD. #870C . Marrietta Ga 30067 . 404 984-0742 . NJC Msg#:12823 *GENERAL* 01/14/89 12:05:07 From: SEAN M. BEATRICE To: ALL Subj: EPROM PROGRAMMING Hi Steve, Could you suggest where I might find futher information concerning eprom programming. I am a novice prom programmer and have been reading your articles in Byte magazine. Bascally, my questions are: What is the software that translates a higher level lang. program into something that a prom programmer will understand, also what assembler lang. would I use for different processors, finally what are the general functions of a prom program? Thanks, SMB Msg#:12911 *GENERAL* 01/16/89 15:25:21 From: STEVE CIARCIA To: SEAN M. BEATRICE (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 12823 (EPROM PROGRAMMING) Anyone want to take a shot at this? I'm about questioned out in this BBS session. :-( --Steve Msg#:12935 *GENERAL* 01/17/89 08:47:38 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: SEAN M. BEATRICE (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 12823 (EPROM PROGRAMMING) Take a look at Steve's Serial EPROM Programmer article in the October '86 issue of BYTE for EPROM programming basics. I think your biggest misconception is that somehow programs in EPROM are different from programs in RAM. While there are some minor differences, they are essentially the same. You still use a compiler to convert from high-level code to machine code. You just have to be careful where variables are stored (they must still go in RAM). As for what assembly language to use for each processor, there is only one dialect to use for a particular processor: the one that belongs to that processor. A Z80 has one and only one defined assembly language for it. Likewise, an 80286 has its own instruction set. While many of the instructions do the same things, each processor has its own syntax and usage conventions. You use an assembler designed for the target processor to translate the assembly language into executable code. Anytime you have binary executable code, you can burn it into an EPROM (again, within limits; variables must end up in RAM). Msg#:12826 *GENERAL* 01/14/89 12:56:12 From: ARNOLD BERKOWITZ To: ALL Subj: PARTS FOR SALE I have some parts I would like to sell: Intel Basic-52 manual 270010-003 $12.00 Intel 1988 Embedded Controller Handbook 210918-006 $ 18.00 Z80A CPU quan 2 0.75 ea Z80CTC quan 1 0.75 AY5-1013A 40k UART quan 2 $1.00 ea WD1771 Floppy Controller quan 1 $ 1.00 LM324 quad op amps quan 11 $ 0.25 10mHz DIP clock oscillator quan 3 $ 2.00 256k DRAM quan 9 $ 8.00 ea 16k DRAM NEC 416 quan 20 $ 0.50 ea 2708 EPROM quan 2 $ 2.00 ea 2716 EPROM quan 5 $ 3.00 ea 2764 EPROM quan 9 $ 3.00 ea Back issues CCInk: JAN//FEB 88 $ 2.00 MAR/APR 88 $ 2.00 Ultrasonic rangefinder 3 digit LCD readout w/ polaroid sensor $ 20.00 VOM 3 1/2 digit LCD display $ 35.00 *** all items postpaid *** write to A. Berkowitz, 1700 Sunny Crest Rd. Bonita, CA 92002 or call (619) 421-8829 from WED-FRI Msg#:13580 *GENERAL* 02/01/89 02:45:53 From: DALE NASSAR To: ARNOLD BERKOWITZ Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 12826 (PARTS FOR SALE) I would like to purchase the Intel handbook and manual. Please let me know if you still have them. --Dale Msg#:12856 *GENERAL* 01/14/89 18:33:07 From: JERRY JOHNSON To: STEVEN HARGUS (Rcvd) Subj: HALL EFFECT SENSORS I HAVE THE FOLLOWING SOURCES FOR HALL EFFECT SENSORS. MICRO SWITCH FREEPORT, ILLINOIS 61032 (815)-235-6600 AIRPAX CORP. WEST JOHNSON AVE. CHESHIRE, CT. 06410 (203)-272-0301 FARGO CONTROLS INC. PO BOX 539 EATONTOWN, N.J. 07724 (201)-389-3376 ASTROSYSTEMS INC. 6 NEVADA DRIVE LAKE SUCCESS, NEW YORK 11042 (516)-328-1600 I USE MICRO SWITCH SENSORS ALMOST DAILY. THEY WORK WELL AND COST LESS THAN AIRPAX. I HAVE CATALOGS ON THE WAY FROM ASTROSYSTEMS AND FARGO HOPEFULLY AS ANOTHER SOURCE OF THESE SENSORS, BUT I HAVE NOT SEEN THEIR PRODUCT LINE AS OF THIS MESSAGE. JERRY Msg#:12859 *GENERAL* 01/14/89 20:51:06 From: PHILIPPE WETTERWALD To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: THROW MAMA FROM THE TRAIN Dear Steve, you already help me in the past by supplying infos on how to pin down a bug (RAM parity error). Sincethat time I tried to swap memory bank in my AT clone 8Mhz 1 wait state from JDR but nothing cured the problem. I got a BBS software to check memories extensilvely and I got a strange result. Whatever the memories used, the address at which the system hang up remain the same (the first 256K memory bank). Do you think that my system plague might come from the motherboard? In other words should I throw mama from the train in the trash ? Or the fact that I have a RAM parity error roughly at the same address would allow to fix the MB? Thanks again, Philippe. Msg#:12874 *GENERAL* 01/15/89 09:03:21 From: NATHAN ENGLE To: PHILIPPE WETTERWALD (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 12859 (THROW MAMA FROM THE TRAIN) If you've swapped chips and still get the errors you probably do have something wrong in the MB. Now whether that's a bad socket connection in Bank0, or not is hard to say. Does the software you got from the BBS tell you which bit it thinks is the culprit? If it's the same all the time you could check the corresponding socket for solder joints that look cold (i.e.- they're not shiny like the rest) or you could just re-flow the solder around those pins since it can be difficult to tell cold joints just from looking. Swapping out the motherboard is probably the best fix, but that's $100 you were probably saving for other things, so check the sockets first. If the problem is any more fundamental than that, it could be really hard to track. It could be the refresh logic, parity calculation logic, or something like that. Even if you find a problem like that it means de-soldering a chip and replacing it, and that's a lot more trouble than pulling a chip out of a socket. At that point it would really be worth your while to get the new MB. Maybe you could use the occasion to justify a faster replacement board like a baby AT or even one of those Haupage 386 boards... Msg#:12881 *GENERAL* 01/15/89 18:08:54 From: PHILIPPE WETTERWALD To: NATHAN ENGLE (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 12874 (THROW MAMA FROM THE TRAIN) Thank you for your reply, do you know if the spacings, holes and connections of a baby AT are the same as a standard MB? Msg#:12912 *GENERAL* 01/16/89 15:37:12 From: STEVE CIARCIA To: NATHAN ENGLE (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 12874 (THROW MAMA FROM THE TRAIN) ditto --Steve Msg#:12942 *GENERAL* 01/17/89 19:38:36 From: NATHAN ENGLE To: PHILIPPE WETTERWALD (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 12912 (THROW MAMA FROM THE TRAIN) I think they're the same size. At least, the baby AT ought to fit in an XT box. One problem with that, though. If you get a 16 bit disk controller that's AT compatible it will be too tall to fit in your XT case. The standard AT card is about an inch taller than XT cards are allowed because there's more head room in the AT box (short pause) I just ran over and popped the lid on my AT, and the AT boards were about 1/2 inch taller than the 8 bit ones. So, I guess, if you go that route, you really might want to just get an AT case. Of course, you'll also need a keyboard that will work on an AT (some have a switch, the others work with one or the other but not both). New 16 bit disk controller (you can get one with a built in floppy controller)... All your other cards and drives and such go into the new box... maybe get a 1.2M floppy drive... and Voila! You've got an AT (with a few XT parts laying around) Msg#:13080 *GENERAL* 01/20/89 21:08:52 From: ANDY PICKETT To: PHILIPPE WETTERWALD (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 12859 (THROW MAMA FROM THE TRAIN) Philippe: On that controller problem..... There are several manufacturers which make 16-bit controllers that are the right size to fit in an XT chassis. Western Digital has just come out with a new controller that's essentially the same as their "standard" which is known as a WA-2. Also, DTC, Omti, and Fountain technologies make equivalent cards that also will fit. All 4 make a 16-bit combo (both hard & floppy on 1 card) and usually sell for around $150.00. Although some Baby-AT motherboards supposedly work with an XT's 8-bit hard disk controller, performance is TERRIBLE. Go with a 16-bit card and get all you can squeeze out of it! -->Andy<-- Msg#:13296 *GENERAL* 01/25/89 20:56:24 From: PHILIPPE WETTERWALD To: NATHAN ENGLE (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 12942 (THROW MAMA FROM THE TRAIN) Thanks for the infos they will be useful to me, I appreciate your comments and I found the general level of that BBS really very good! Msg#:13374 *GENERAL* 01/27/89 19:59:11 From: NATHAN ENGLE To: PHILIPPE WETTERWALD (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 13296 (THROW MAMA FROM THE TRAIN) I really like this board too. I like the magazine it's associated with, the people who run it, the people who read it, and the industry it's based around. I have a great time when I call this board because no one minds if you pull out all the stops and really get into the nitty-gritty details. It was a pleasure to be of assistance. Msg#:12862 *GENERAL* 01/14/89 22:49:42 From: DAVID LAWSON To: TIM LADA (Rcvd) Subj: SONAR TRANSDUCERS tim, these people make piezoelectric devices of all kinds: EDO WESTERN CORP (801)486-7481 they're in salt lake city they should have some samples of various transducers. by the way they make square,cylindrical,spherical, all shapes Msg#:12863 *GENERAL* 01/14/89 22:56:11 From: DAVID LAWSON To: DAVE EWEN (Rcvd) Subj: AMATUER FREQ FOR RC dave, if you have a technician class or above license and you aren't doing the remote control for business, then you more or less have your pick of frequencies from 50mhz to 10.5 thz (thats correct terrahertz) and any power up to 1500 watts, although use of minimun power to perform the function is required by law. Commercially, then you have to compete with everyone else for radio spectrum. Msg#:12879 *GENERAL* 01/15/89 16:03:24 From: FOSTER SCHUCKER To: ALL Subj: VIDEO QUESTION I have recently installed a graphics board (based on the TI sprite chip) in my Xerox 820. The board produces composite video output. I'm currently using an external monitor. The Xerox mother board produces VIDEO, HORZ Sync and Vert Sync signals. I know how to convert them to composite. And I can mix the two signals together. The problem is I want to display them on the internal Xerox monitor. It only accepts Video, Horz and Vert, not composite video. Can anyone out there give me a lead on what to do? THANKS!! Msg#:12902 *GENERAL* 01/16/89 13:07:52 From: NEIL CHERRY To: MARK BALCH (Rcvd) Subj: 8088 ETAL. Its just my personal bias again the 8088/8086 8 bit cpu back switching unit. I'm more in favor of striaght memory. And you're close I'm a "6"'er I like the moto and rockwell stuff. NJC Msg#:13114 *GENERAL* 01/21/89 17:01:48 From: MARK BALCH To: NEIL CHERRY (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 12902 (8088 ETAL.) Applause! I don't like the 80x86's. Motorola is my brand for MPUs. I really like the 6809 and their 68HC11 MCU is very good also. The only problem with the 68HC11 is that it is too damned crowded. There are so many units on that thing (SCI, SPI, ADC, TIMERS...) that there are only 16 pins that you can really use for actual I/O (I am think, but am not sure). If you want external memory, then you must use all 16 pins for address and data. This forces you to map I/O devices into the memory just like a normal MPU. The great thing about the 8031 is that it has alot, but not too much. It has a serial port and several timers. Besides that, there are many lines for I/O. Even if you use external memory, you will still have a nice amount of free I/O pins for your application. Back to the 6809/68HC11...So I might as well stay with the 6809 because I can easily map I/O into the memory and it is a powerful 8-Bit micro. The only thing is that it is stuck down there at 2 MHz! I wouldn't mind a 4MHz version or higher, but... Another good thing about the 6809 is its ability to directly interface with a DMA controller. I forgot the actual chip number, but motorola makes an 8-bit DMAC for the 6809. Put them together and you will get a very nice 8-bit system. Bye, Mark Msg#:13157 *GENERAL* 01/22/89 20:30:13 From: NEIL CHERRY To: MARK BALCH (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 13114 (8088 ETAL.) Hitachi makes a chip that not only runs at a hiher clock rate but adds more instructions and is cmos. The number is 6309 (I think ???). I'm working on getting my hands on one now but so far I've only heard about the chip. NJC Msg#:13303 *GENERAL* 01/25/89 22:28:44 From: MARK LAMPKIN To: NEIL CHERRY Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 13157 (8088 ETAL.) As I recollect,the 6301 is a Hitachi better than equivalent to the Mot 6801...I think the 6309 is a CMOS 6809,isn't it???...Mark Msg#:13399 *GENERAL* 01/28/89 13:08:50 From: MARK BALCH To: NEIL CHERRY Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 13157 (8088 ETAL.) Sounds like it is a very good item. Are there any projects that you know of using the 6309? I am just considering the reliability, but Hitachi is a very good name, so I shouldn't doubt them. The 6809 is limited to a 2 MHz clock, what is the 6309's limit? I don't think I'll need a very powerful version of the 6809 (anything above 2 MHz) because I'm not considering an 8-Bit number cruncher. After I finish my current project, I'd like to get started on my own custom EPROM/EEPROM/PLD programmer. The EPROM/EEPROMs shouldn't be very hard to design for, but I don't know alot about PLDs and their software. What I am planning to do is leave an expansion port open on the programmer and leave about 32K of EPROM free for future enhancements. That way, I could implement PLDs in the future. Bye, Mark Msg#:13711 *GENERAL* 02/03/89 22:43:16 From: MARK LAMPKIN To: MARK BALCH (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 13399 (8088 ETAL.) Mark...Why do you need a faster clock?....I was using the 6809 in some industrial controller applications a few years ago,and I had an urge to see how fast you could push the standard Mot part....MC68B09......The amazing things ran at over 3Mhz on six of the eight parts that I tried....I've often wondered how many CPU's of different manufacturers would run well past the spec'd speed.....Mark Msg#:13741 *GENERAL* 02/04/89 10:06:42 From: MARK BALCH To: MARK LAMPKIN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 13711 (8088 ETAL.) As I said before, I don't really *need* to push it above 2 MHz. My applications are not number-chrunching. If I want power, I'll move up to 16-Bit MPUs. I was just thinking about it. Didn't the 68B09 generate ALOT of heat when you ran it to 3 MHz? Gotta watch out for it frying itself I think. After this project of mine, I will consider myself experienced because I will have wrapped it and built a fairly-complex electronic device with a microprocessor. Then I will get adventurous and start pushing chips to their limits! It'll be fun. Bye, Mark P.S. The EPROM programmer that I want to build won't need the 6809 to go faster than 2 MHz anyway. EPROM progs don't do alot of computation and if they do, they aren't going for bench-mark records, only "slow" EPROMs. Msg#:13771 *GENERAL* 02/05/89 09:19:30 From: MARK LAMPKIN To: MARK BALCH (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 13741 (8088 ETAL.) The things you can do with a little bit of epoxy and a dip heat sink are amazing....In the product I used the 68B09 for,we always used a heat sink on most of the LSI chips....All for industrial use in sealed boxws and temps of up to 140 F.,continous......Mark Msg#:13773 *GENERAL* 02/05/89 09:28:01 From: MARK LAMPKIN To: MARK BALCH (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 13741 (8088 ETAL.) Another bye the bye,you want heat?...Use the 8080/8085 and an 8218 combination...Mark Msg#:13876 *GENERAL* 02/07/89 22:16:17 From: MARK BALCH To: MARK LAMPKIN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 13771 (8088 ETAL.) Sounds interesting. I have read many articles that told about people driving 16 MHz 80386s to 20 or 25 MHz with a very lareg heat sink and as you said some special epoxy. Is it true that the only thing stopping a 2 MHz chip from going faster is the heat? And that faster chips must use lower-resistance materials to get to higher speeds? Bye, Mark Msg#:13878 *GENERAL* 02/07/89 22:17:30 From: MARK BALCH To: MARK LAMPKIN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 13773 (8088 ETAL.) I know what the 8080/8085s are, but what is an 8218? Is it a DMA or something? Why do you say that though. the 8080 is an 8 bit processor and it doesn't run that fast (I don't think...). Msg#:14022 *GENERAL* 02/10/89 23:25:16 From: MARK LAMPKIN To: MARK BALCH (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 13876 (8088 ETAL.) Ther are a lot of things that can stop a micro from going faster....Most of the micro's on the market are of a somewhat dynamic orientation,(i.e.,th e 6809 could not be halted for more than 8 or 1yw3mx@{w,~0[{{t({m{x{o 10 microseconds or it would loose it's mind).Many processors registers and ALU's are of the same nature as a dynamic ram...got to refresh...Mark Msg#:14023 *GENERAL* 02/10/89 23:27:34 From: MARK LAMPKIN To: MARK BALCH (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 13878 (8088 ETAL.) The 8218 was a typo....should be 8212...it's an NMOS 8 bit latch that you could heat treat steel with when in operation....very hot...Mark Msg#:14034 *GENERAL* 02/11/89 03:13:28 From: GARY LEAR To: MARK LAMPKIN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 14022 (8088 ETAL.) Most of the new CMOS processor designs use static registers. Motorola's MC68HC11 specs allow DC operation, and the part is tested to this, although there are limitations on the A/D converter and the COP (Computer Operating Properly) circuits at low clock speeds. TI's TMS370 series also allows DC operation, but the specs do not reflect this as the part is not tested below a certain speed. This specific question came up during a TI seminar. Have fun. --Gary Msg#:14046 *GENERAL* 02/11/89 10:06:12 From: MARK BALCH To: MARK LAMPKIN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 14022 (8088 ETAL.) That makes no sense at all. Even though it is done, why would a company engineer their registers with DRAM type instead of SRAM type memory? SRAM is much faster and needs no refresh. To go back to your 6809 example, if the 6809 can't halt for more than 10 uS, then how does it work with a DMAC? The Motorola DMAC and I am sure all DMA's have to stop the microprocessor go gain bus control. I think this involves a halt signal, what does the 6809 do then? Bye, Mark Msg#:14047 *GENERAL* 02/11/89 10:08:35 From: MARK BALCH To: MARK LAMPKIN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 14023 (8088 ETAL.) Sounds like a device no one wants to use! (Well as you said, people can harden their screw-drivers on that chip...) Is the 8212 similar in operation to the 74LS373? All 8088 projects that I've seen use the 74LS373 as their latch for address/data demuxing. Bye, Mark Msg#:14057 *GENERAL* 02/11/89 21:32:52 From: MARK LAMPKIN To: GARY LEAR (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 14034 (8088 ETAL.) This is a true-ism...That's why just about every design I am presently in the the works with has a CMOS processor....Mark Msg#:14059 *GENERAL* 02/11/89 21:43:38 From: MARK LAMPKIN To: MARK BALCH (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 14047 (8088 ETAL.) The 8212 has a number of options available depending on the way you jumper some of the select pins...For most of the applications a '373 or '374 octal latch would be satisfactory...Mark Msg#:14060 *GENERAL* 02/11/89 21:50:44 From: MARK LAMPKIN To: MARK BALCH (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 14046 (8088 ETAL.) The DMAC takes advantage of the DMA/BREQ line on the 6809...This then places the processor in a halted/tri-state mode which lets the processors internal clock continue to run....The reason for a dynamic processor over a static is that it takes only one or two transistors to make a memory cell,as compared to approximately six for a static cell...Lots less silicon....Mark Msg#:14073 *GENERAL* 02/12/89 04:58:32 From: GARY LEAR To: MARK LAMPKIN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 14057 (8088 ETAL.) Glad to hear that the world is finally coming around to CMOS. I was a champion of the technology when it was not popular to be so (circa 1977) and to be honest, it did have TREMENDOUS drawbacks then. Now I use it exclusively unless forced by design or recalcitrant management to use something else. Do you remember when TI swore they would *never* have anything to do with CMOS? Now in addition to their largest VHSIC being made with it they are one of the biggest proponents of HC and AC parts (although they did mess up on the AC stuff. Rumor has it they are coming out with a conventional pinout family in AC since the new RCA parts have nearly the same ground bounce as TI). Keep up the resistance movement, we will eventually convert the non-believers. --Gary Msg#:14179 *GENERAL* 02/14/89 21:54:14 From: MARK BALCH To: MARK LAMPKIN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 14059 (8088 ETAL.) Oh. That's what I assumed. Since all the projects I've seen (which isn't alot, but not few) use the 'LS373, I figured that the 8212 must be for some special circumstance. I just got my copy of INK in the mail today and you are in the back in the connectime section. I was very interested by that particular thread about your LAN at home with lots of small computers hooked up to it. You mentioned 6809s, Z80s, 68000s and the 68705x family. I am interested in those Motorola MCUs. Are the 68705s very good? The only info I have on them is from my Motorola Master Selection Guide which provides a short table of their features for their whole MCU line. I don't really have any need for them, But in the future I'd like to tinker around with a small LAN of my own and setup a small version of what you have. Can you just give me some more info about your system? Thanks. Bye, Mark Msg#:14180 *GENERAL* 02/14/89 21:58:32 From: MARK BALCH To: MARK LAMPKIN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 14059 (8088 ETAL.) Now I understand. So the dynamic registers will still be intact as long as the clock is left running. I assume that the clock is like a refresh timer. Then there is no problem with halting the MPU indefinately, right? Just use the HALT line or DMA/BREQ line. Now about the silicon. I can understand worrying about transistor quantity when you have a 256 kbit ram chip to build. Then one transistor certainly looks better than 6 per cell. But when you are building an MPU? That sounds skimpy. The chip already has thousands of transistors on it so what sifferent will 50 or 100 more make? After all 16 bit MPUs only have about 32 registers (yes or no?). Bye, Mark Msg#:14538 *GENERAL* 02/20/89 22:15:04 From: MARK LAMPKIN To: GARY LEAR (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 14073 (8088 ETAL.) I agree 100%....I started using CMOS with the 1802 processor,back when the static charge from a sneeze would blow a 4000A series gate...No more NMOS.....Mark Msg#:14539 *GENERAL* 02/20/89 22:18:30 From: MARK LAMPKIN To: MARK BALCH (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 14179 (8088 ETAL.) Mark....What you need is a copy of the M6805 HMOS-M146805 CMOS Family,Microcomputer/Microprocessor User's Manual from Motorola....It has a lot of info on the 6805 family and enough app's to tweek your mind...Mark Msg#:14540 *GENERAL* 02/20/89 22:23:33 From: MARK LAMPKIN To: MARK BALCH (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 14180 (8088 ETAL.) It's not just a few registers,it the whole design layout and interconnect that makes it more complex.....Also the power comsumption of NMOS static devices is substantially highr than their dynamic counterparts....It wasn't until a few years ago that the line widths of the CMOS cell could be made small enough to achieve high density,approaching that of the NMOS counterparts.....Thats just a few of the reasons,most of them superficial....Mark Msg#:14566 *GENERAL* 02/21/89 03:14:52 From: GARY LEAR To: MARK LAMPKIN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 14538 (8088 ETAL.) Pass the ammunition! I went on an interview several years ago and the engineer who saw me had a big "I LOVE CMOS" button in his office. I admired it so much that he gave it to me (but not the job). CMOS just keeps getting better, and for some things (see the discusion on backing up memory with farad size caps) it has no equal (kind of like a HP calculator) :-). Seriously, there are still things that bipolar is better suited for, but microwatt for microwatt, CMOS can't be beat. --Gary Msg#:14620 *GENERAL* 02/21/89 23:25:21 From: MARK BALCH To: MARK LAMPKIN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 14539 (8088 ETAL.) Thanks. I'll send a letter to Motorola's Lit department. DO you by any chance have experience with the 6500 family? I found the 6512 selling for a great price and I want to buy several of them. Only problem is that they use a two phase external clock. The single phase is easy to generate, but for the second phase, could I just invert the first phase? The timing diagrams in Rockwell's data book suggested that you could. Bye, Mark Msg#:14621 *GENERAL* 02/21/89 23:26:18 From: MARK BALCH To: MARK LAMPKIN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 14540 (8088 ETAL.) I really don't know about the actual hard-chip design stuff. I am sure that it is done for a good reason! Thanks for the expo... Msg#:14639 *GENERAL* 02/22/89 05:32:26 From: GARY LEAR To: MARK BALCH (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 14620 (8088 ETAL.) Be careful! The clocks in the Motorola design (the 6500 was designed by one of the 6800 people, it is *very* similar) are required to be non-overlapping. They used to make special chips for this before they moved the clock generator inside. Of course, you could always use a *high* frequency clock and time slice it down to fit ... :-) --Gary Msg#:14656 *GENERAL* 02/22/89 09:32:10 From: MARK LAMPKIN To: MARK BALCH (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 14620 (8088 ETAL.) Sorry,no experiance with the 6500 family of products...This next remark could raise some feathers,but,I never had the urge to use the lesser of the 6800 family.There must be something good about it,though....Mark Msg#:14693 *GENERAL* 02/23/89 04:29:06 From: FRANK HENRIQUEZ To: GARY LEAR (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 14639 (8088 ETAL.) The Motorola 6800 used a separate clock generator IC called the 6875. It was a finicky IC, too. I think I can look up a few old articles with alternate clock circuits. You could also try making one by running the phase 1 clock through a CMOS (4000 series only!) buffer to skew it, and use that as your phase 2 clock. The CD4050 has six cmos buffers, and it makes a nice delay device! you could square up the output by running it through a 74HC device, if needed. Msg#:14697 *GENERAL* 02/23/89 04:57:18 From: GARY LEAR To: FRANK HENRIQUEZ (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 14693 (8088 ETAL.) I see your memory is working better than mine (must be these American made chips :-) ). With this bit of refresh, I seem to recall that one of the improvements made in the 6802 was to move the clock generator inside. If you can find those circuits, please describe them. I am sure others would be interested, if only academically. Thanks for the info. --Gary P.S. Don't pick on the 4000 series too hard. It is amazing it stayed alive with all of the opposition that management the world over gave it. I used almost nothing else once I was "converted" in the mid 1970's. I will be the first to admit that it sometimes took a lot of imagination (not to mention a certain fondness for thin ice :-) ). Msg#:14698 *GENERAL* 02/23/89 05:04:29 From: GARY LEAR To: MARK LAMPKIN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 14656 (8088 ETAL.) Sir, those are fight'en words! Come down here with your weapon (feather pillow by choice) :-). The 6800 family takes some adjustment after years of Intel and Zilog exposure, but I come to love them for their elegance. Someday when I just can't squeeze any more from an 8 bit system (with a judiciously applied amount of custom hardware) I *might* have to look at a 16 bit micro. But, A 16 bit microcontroller? Seems like a contradiction in terms. (How many bits *does* it take to turn on a LED anyway?) :-) --Gary Msg#:14760 *GENERAL* 02/23/89 22:17:34 From: MARK BALCH To: GARY LEAR (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 14639 (8088 ETAL.) Well I have seen many chips to automatically generate a 2 phase system clock, so I could always fall back on that. The only thing is that I can make a 1 phase clock with only a crystal, a 74LS04 and some caps and resistors. It would be great if I could just use the other inverters for the second phase. The Rockwell data book obviously had the timing diagram for the 2 phase clock and I looked at it carefully. First, it *looked* visually, like I could just invert the first phase to generate the second phase, but also and more important are the numbers. It said that the minimum transition time between phase 1 and 2 was 0 ns! This means that if I do invert it, as phase one goes down, phase two will go up. How can I lose? At any rate, I have to order these babies because they are cheap. And why not have them around? But I will of course experiment with the clocking circuit to see if my idea works. What do you think? Bye, Mark Msg#:14761 *GENERAL* 02/23/89 22:23:40 From: MARK BALCH To: MARK LAMPKIN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 14656 (8088 ETAL.) The lesser of the 6800 family? What do you mean? If I remember, ti was you who liked the 68705 MCUs, or was it someone else with the mini-LAN? At any rate, I am doing very well with the 6808 (no more production now!) and next on my list is the 6809 which is very nice. It has two accumulators which can combine to form a 16 bit. It has, I think) 2 index registers and 2 stack pointers. The User Stack Ptr could be used as general purpose I guess. If you were referring to the 6802,08,09 then you are wrong. The 6512 isn't too bad either for 49 cents a piece! So what if I need one extra IC for the clock? It is cheap, has two index registers, a decent instruction set (but certainly not the most powerful!). It's not bad for some small applications. I kind of like chips like that. You don't have to worry about wasting a $16 MPU on some junky circuit. At 49 cents each, I am free to dream up, AND BUILD!, anything that I want to... Bye, Mark Msg#:14788 *GENERAL* 02/24/89 03:55:55 From: FRANK HENRIQUEZ To: GARY LEAR (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 14697 (8088 ETAL.) I think just inverting the clock would make a fine phase 2. But if you really want to be safe, put some skew in it. The delay through a 74LS04 should be a few ns. The 6501 was a 6502 in a 6800 pin layout. After Motorola sued MOS technology, they rearranged the pins, changed the locations of the reset and interrupt vectors and did a few other things to keep the Moto legal beagles happy. If you have a 6501 *anywhere* then its worth some $$. The 6802 was a nice improvement over the 6800, and the 6808 is just a 6802 that dis not pass the internal ram test, but is otherwise functional. The yields on the 6802 have no doubt improved to the point where there just weren't enough bad ones to make 6808s. Besides, the 6809 and the 6801/6811 families are a LOT nicer. Msg#:14794 *GENERAL* 02/24/89 04:34:57 From: GARY LEAR To: MARK BALCH (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 14760 (8088 ETAL.) If that's what the specs say, go for it! I was somehow under the impression that the clocks did not overlap (such as the phase 2 clock active time occurred *within* the phase 1 clock). I will have to check this out. One question though, if you can simply delay the signal, why did Motorola and everybody have such a difficult time, *and* make special chips for the purpose? Good luck. --Gary Msg#:14842 *GENERAL* 02/24/89 19:34:18 From: MARK LAMPKIN To: GARY LEAR (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 14698 (8088 ETAL.) There are a couple of them out there...The famy of controllersok and a little known producMostek,68200....Any of those make it to the field ?.........Mark Msg#:14843 *GENERAL* 02/24/89 19:38:13 From: MARK LAMPKIN To: MARK BALCH (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 14761 (8088 ETAL.) By the lesser of the family,I meant the 6500 family of products,which was the offspring of some engineers which left Motorola after the 6800 was designed....I personally prefer the 6805/6809/68000 families to any other processors....Mark Msg#:15012 *GENERAL* 02/27/89 22:13:32 From: MARK BALCH To: GARY LEAR (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 14794 (8088 ETAL.) I don't know about what Motorola did with the 6800 clock timing. I keep thinking about that myself though. How can I find such an easy way when the people who built a processor like it had to design a special chip? But if you have a Rockwell data book or data sheet, look at the 2 phase clock timing diagram. The phase 2 clock goes high when the phase one goes low and vice versa. That is what the diagrams said anyway. I also carefully checked the numbers and they said the same thing. I have never used the 6800 so I don't know, but it is possible that the 6800's dual phase clock is slightly different from the 6500's dual phase clock. Wait...I have my Moto 8-Bit data book right here with me...YES!!! I WAS RIGHT! The Motorola Dual Phase Clock is different from the Rockwell clock. The Rockwell design has has the phase 2 mirror the phase 1. But Motorola's design has the phases overlapping as you said. This explains why the Moto people had to make a special chip for the 6800. Bye, Mark Msg#:15013 *GENERAL* 02/27/89 22:19:41 From: MARK BALCH To: MARK LAMPKIN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 14843 (8088 ETAL.) Oh I definately agree with you! I am loyal to motorola's MPU family. My current project uses the 6808, but they stopped production on this chip because it is out-dated. The 6809 is great and my next project will use it at 2 MHz. I hope that in a year or two, I'll start in with the 68xxx family. I don't expect to go into the 68020, 68030 because 32 bits is not necessary for me. I want to check out the 68008 though. It looks great for a small design that needs power. The 68008 is a version of the 68000 like the 8088 is to the 8026/80286, sorta. It has an 8 bit external data bus but 16 bits inside and a 1 or 4 Meg address space depending on the package used (1 for DIP and 4 for PLCC). Back to the 6500. Yes this family isn't as powerful, but it is cheap and I would like a chip that I could do anything with. What can I lose? While the 6512 doesn't have many instructions, it does have 2 index regs and I guess I could come up with some decent projects for this baby. The way I figure, All I need is a 6512, 8155, 74LS04 and a 2716 and I have a simple computer system. Oh yeah, I'd probably need an LS138 for the decoding. Bye, Mark Msg#:15040 *GENERAL* 02/28/89 03:32:33 From: GARY LEAR To: MARK BALCH (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 15012 (8088 ETAL.) I intended to change the subject title, since even I will never find this thread here. Oh, well. Have you ever worked with the technical writers who create those drawings? Some of them make you feel like you don't even know your own design (a very humbling experience). But some of them! It is possible that the designers decided to fix the overlap condition, but from a job I did a few years ago with a Rockwell part, I think that since even the Motorola parts *usually* work without the overlap condition, that perhaps the difference does not really exist (or maybe I am just asleep as I write this :-) ). Anyway, it is essentially a moot point, most people are using the 6802 or later parts these days. Thanks for the input. --Gary Msg#:15041 *GENERAL* 02/28/89 03:36:42 From: GARY LEAR To: MARK BALCH (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 15013 (8088 ETAL.) Check out the 68HC11. It uses a 6801 core and has *lots* of I/O, timers, A/D, EEPROM, serial I/O (UART and synchronous control), etc. A great chip. It may even be in CC INK someday... --Gary Msg#:15082 *GENERAL* 02/28/89 12:24:02 From: BOB PADDOCK To: MARK BALCH (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 15013 (8088 ETAL.) I believe the 68008 went the same way as the 6808, discontinued... Also read message #15081 about the 68HC11. Msg#:12916 *GENERAL* 01/16/89 17:22:56 From: BOB STEINBEISER To: JEFF BACHIOCHI (Rcvd) Subj: BASIC-52 ON BCC-52 I am attempting to expand BASIC-52 on the Micromint BCC-52 controller. I have been successful in adding commands as documented in the MCS BASIC-52 users guide, but what I would like to do is add my own special function operators. I would like to use these custom operators the same way you can use TMOD, TIMER0, TCON etc. in BASIC (ex. PRINT TCON or TIMER0=0). The BCC-52 documentation does not go into how BASIC-52 operates in this respect. Is this possible? Msg#:12979 *GENERAL* 01/18/89 12:08:44 From: JEFF BACHIOCHI To: BOB STEINBEISER (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 12916 (BASIC-52 ON BCC-52) Bob, Sorry, but the links for adding 'special function operators' are not available. jeff Msg#:12924 *GENERAL* 01/16/89 20:31:04 From: DAVE EWEN To: DAVID LAWSON (Rcvd) Subj: AMATEUR FREQ FOR R/C I will be trying for a Technician this next saturday. I do remember reading something about a 1 watt limit in the license study book answers. Msg#:12936 *GENERAL* 01/17/89 10:57:50 From: HAROLD MILLER To: ALL Subj: 68000 CPU Howdy, I have some neat stuff that I can't bring myself to toss, so maybe I can make a buck selling it. They are motherboards for the discontinued Corvus Concept computer. 68000 based, it has everything on it to operate but memory (the memory board was seperate) . Alot of the parts were socketed, and it has 4 or 5 of the old "Apple ][" card connectors on it. Anybody interested? I have 10 or 20 of these things. If not anybody want just the CPU chips? Or static ram 2114's, or eproms? I REALLY hate tossing this stuff... Adopt one of these, they are soooooo cute. :) Msg#:12939 *GENERAL* 01/17/89 13:14:12 From: CURT FRANKLIN To: HAROLD MILLER (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 12936 (68000 CPU) Since you mentioned making a buck, how much do you want for these boards? If the price is right, I might be convinced to take one. It sounds like it might be the starting point for people who want to put together the Home Satellite Weather Center we've been running in Circuit Cellar INK. Msg#:12943 *GENERAL* 01/17/89 20:04:28 From: TOM CURDA To: HAROLD MILLER (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 12936 (68000 CPU) Harold, the Corvus mboard sounds good; how many & how much??? Do they work??? Do you have any documentation, or know where to get??? Do you have a list of other stuff you're willing to part with??? Thanks. Regards, --Tom Msg#:13012 *GENERAL* 01/19/89 10:52:12 From: HAROLD MILLER To: CURT FRANKLIN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 12939 (68000 CPU) Would you think $20.00 + shipping be fair? You can buy one from Corvus for $3000 + (I think?). If you're interested in hi-tech big circuit cards I have a bunch more (Z8000 based, z-80 based, etc) My work number is (503) 479-1248 7am-3:30pm PST. Msg#:13013 *GENERAL* 01/19/89 10:54:56 From: HAROLD MILLER To: TOM CURDA (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 12943 (68000 CPU) 20 to 30 , $20 to $60, most of them, yes, not yet. Drop me a note at RRBBS (503) 582-4860 300-1200-2400 24hrs. (Talk about a terse reply!!!) Msg#:13062 *GENERAL* 01/20/89 10:48:04 From: TOM CURDA To: HAROLD MILLER (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 13013 (68000 CPU) Can do, Thanks. Msg#:13086 *GENERAL* 01/21/89 01:31:13 From: KEITH TUCHOLSKI To: HAROLD MILLER (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 12936 (68000 CPU) YES,AM INTRESTED. CAN YOU PROVIDE ANY DOCUMENTATION?? WOULD BE HELPFUL. ALSO, WHAT IS THE MEMORERY CONNEXTOR?? Msg#:13186 *GENERAL* 01/23/89 11:59:47 From: HAROLD MILLER To: KEITH TUCHOLSKI (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 13086 (68000 CPU) Keith, If you plan on building a Corvus Concept computer from the motherboard, it's gonna cost you. It requires a special Hi-res video display, the memory board is unique and the software can be a bear to write. If you really want to play with the 68000 on the Corvus system, I have a complete operational system, and all of the software that they published (that I know of). I have pascal, c, basic and two or three other languages, the assembler, a Word processor, spread sheet and data-base. I'll sell ya the whole system, with a network driver, 20 meg hard disk (with VCR backup option) 8" disk drive, Hires display, all the software and Doc's I have for $1800 (firm). I'll even kick in a spare motherboard for you to play with. Ball's in your court. :) Harold Msg#:12937 *GENERAL* 01/17/89 11:47:55 From: TOM CURDA To: ALL Subj: ANALOG TROUBLESHOOTING For those of you who have access to EDN magazine, the Jan. 5 issue began a series on analog circuit troubleshooting, written by one of the most prolific analog circuit designers, Bob Pease of National Semiconductor. His style of writing is reminiscent of Steve Ciarcia's; the series should prove extremely illuminating. Check out the local public or jr. college library to see if they have EDN. BTW, Ken, would it be worthwhile to check with either EDN's publisher or Bob Pease to see if the series could be posted as a text file? I would think that the information would be of interest and value to a much larger audience than that reached by EDN. Msg#:12941 *GENERAL* 01/17/89 19:06:59 From: ANDREW HUNT To: ALL Subj: AY-1015D DOes anyone know the easiest way to connect an AY-1015 such that it will transmit a byte as soon as it has gotten a byte? (it has to got through about 50ns of gates in the interim). I have only recently hooked up to this BBS, so if you caould reply via e-mail I might actually find the messege! Thanks. Msg#:12987 *GENERAL* 01/18/89 17:40:02 From: MARK LAMPKIN To: ANDREW HUNT (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 12941 (AY-1015D) Connect the Data Available output to the DAV Reset input so that a character xcieved resets the DAV output,run the DAV output through an inverter to strobe the TBRL input which will load the parallel input to the xmitter buffer and cause the UART to transmit the data contained in the buffer....Mark Msg#:12944 *GENERAL* 01/17/89 20:34:43 From: JACK PERGAL To: ALL Subj: VOICE DIGITIZER I just uploaded two files that describe how to build a simple voice digitizer for the PC. I haven't built the unit but it looks like a pretty simple project to try. Jack Msg#:12990 *GENERAL* 01/18/89 21:57:40 From: GEORGE NICOLACOPULOS To: JACK PERGAL (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 12944 (VOICE DIGITIZER) Jack, I've looked for the files you described but have not had any success. How were they "filed" (category, etc.). Thanks, George Msg#:12999 *GENERAL* 01/19/89 01:37:14 From: JACK PERGAL To: GEORGE NICOLACOPULOS (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 12990 (VOICE DIGITIZER) George, I uploaded the files in the IBM uploads directory, but I think you have to wait til the sysop checks them and moves them to the directory. Jack Msg#:13005 *GENERAL* 01/19/89 08:40:42 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: JACK PERGAL (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 12999 (VOICE DIGITIZER) Someone already uploaded the same set of programs in the file called DIGITIZE.ARC. I don't plan on making both available since it would be redundant. And since the above mentioned file was here first, that's the one I'll leave posted. Msg#:13039 *GENERAL* 01/19/89 21:32:04 From: GEORGE NICOLACOPULOS To: JACK PERGAL (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 12999 (VOICE DIGITIZER) Thanks Jack. Not too anxious, huh? Gerge Msg#:13043 *GENERAL* 01/19/89 23:09:06 From: JACK PERGAL To: GEORGE NICOLACOPULOS (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 13039 (VOICE DIGITIZER) The sysop says it's already here in the file digitize.arc Jack Msg#:13045 *GENERAL* 01/19/89 23:20:05 From: JACK PERGAL To: KEN DAVIDSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 13005 (VOICE DIGITIZER) Ok I didn't realize digitze.arc was the same file. While we're on the subject how about fixing the N(ew) command so you can specify a date to start checking from and check all file subdis? I've seen this on other TBBS's so I know it can be done. Jack Msg#:13057 *GENERAL* 01/20/89 08:55:09 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: JACK PERGAL (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 13045 (VOICE DIGITIZER) Could you leave me the numbers of the systems where you saw that working? Version 2.1 of TBBS completely revamped the file system and I haven't had a chance to muck with it yet. I do agree that the file areas need some work. Thanks for the suggestion. Msg#:13212 *GENERAL* 01/23/89 22:39:15 From: GEORGE NICOLACOPULOS To: JACK PERGAL (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 13043 (VOICE DIGITIZER) Thanks, Jack. It took a little more hunting but I was finally able to find it. Works pretty neat. Will wire up the circuit when I get time. George Msg#:12950 *GENERAL* 01/17/89 21:44:20 From: VIC FRAENCKEL To: ALL Subj: HPGL DOCUMENTATION I am beginning to use PCB-EDIT to layout some rather simple circuit boards and need a way to get printed output. Included with PBC-Edit is the pasc al source code to their plotter driver. It seems to be a trivial matter to patch the program to output the plotter commands to a text file. There is a s/w product called DESKPLOTTER that will take a hpgl text file and convert it to deskjet format. However it appears as tho the plotter driver must query the plotter to obtain some information such as maximum x and y plot values. I need documentation for HPGL in order to handle these cases. can anyone point me to a source of documentation for HPGL. The local sales office seems to be cold to my requests. any assistance will be greatfully appreciated. Vic Fraenckel Msg#:12953 *GENERAL* 01/17/89 22:18:49 From: VIC FRAENCKEL To: DALE REID (Rcvd) Subj: DIGITAL COMPASS dale - i just happened to read you message thread concerning digital compasses. a company called AUTOHELM (british, i think) markets a hand held one in this country for marine use - at least I see their ads in yatching magazines. they run about 100 bucks. Vic fraenckel p.s. the product is called personal compass - Autohelm PC Msg#:12956 *GENERAL* 01/18/89 00:57:09 From: ERICJ MILLER To: STEVE SCHMIDT Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 11221 (ST4096 HD RELIABILITY) From what I've heard, Dos 4.1 is just as buggy.... Eric Msg#:12989 *GENERAL* 01/18/89 19:44:49 From: NATHAN ENGLE To: STEVE SCHMIDT Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 11221 (ST4096 HD RELIABILITY) Concerning the 4096 I haven't heard much. The older 4000 series had that violent kachunking head park mechanism. I have a 4038 that will move itself across a table if you cycle the power while it isn't bolted down. The newer 4000's have been redesigned for a softer autopark, but I have heard distant rumblings that the whole 4000 series is going to be discontinued due to the emminent arrival of half height hard disks that store 200+MB. The new drives might just make hard disk space very inexpensive en masse. For now the 4096 is probably a good enough drive. Don't cycle the power too much, etc, etc. and it'll probably do as well as any. If you need guaranteed reliability over several years, I have heard Miniscribe spoken very highly of. In fact the other day at work our department needed a PC so we got permission from another department to sort through their junk PCs to try to assemble one that worked. There were about 4 hard drives; 1 ST225 that worked, one ST225 that didn't, a non-functional Olivetti, and a Miniscribe. The Miniscribe was in excellent shape. Its host machine fell apart around it but the drive was still in good working order. Msg#:13107 *GENERAL* 01/21/89 16:05:42 From: BYRON BLAKE To: NATHAN ENGLE (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 12989 (ST4096 HD RELIABILITY) Nathan, I happen to be the market for a 120-200 MB hard drive. I'd like to place the drive with 80286 AT machine for a file server. I here you say that your 4036 has rather abrupt head parking, how old is it? Do I also understand that most, if not all, large HDrives (storage greater than 80 MB) have autoparking heads? Byron Msg#:13203 *GENERAL* 01/23/89 19:40:41 From: NATHAN ENGLE To: BYRON BLAKE (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 13107 (ST4096 HD RELIABILITY) I believe that my 4038 is an older model. I can really get the drive to scoot across the table if the surface is smooth. As long as you don't cycle the power too much I think the 40xx series are all pretty good. The 4096 is definitely attractive in its current MB/$ ratio, and if you don't abuse it the drive should last pretty well. The rumors I hear about the 120+ MB drives are that Micropolis is really good. CDC is pretty good too. I've heard about problems with some Priams, but that might have just been bad luck. Msg#:12959 *GENERAL* 01/18/89 01:31:33 From: EDDIE WHITE To: ALL Subj: Z80 SIO AND XEROX 820 I've got a problem with a Z80 SIO on a Xerox 820-I. We've written a little asm program to output a byte to the modem port. After reset and before the first byte is output, the sio's txd line is in a steady state. After the first byte the sio begins to output a continous periodic pulse (or thats what it looks like on a scope). The only thing we've done thats not in the xerox pgmr's manual is disable the interrupts on the sio (00 is sent to wr1, we are not using the printer port anyway). We know its in the async mode because an old dumb terminal will print the characters. The pulses seem to drive smart modems nuts. We are setting the registers as: wr4: 01000100 wr3: 11000001 wr5: 11101010 wr1: 00 (to disable ints) The 820 uses the sio a port as a modem port and the b port as a serial printer. The cp/m bios expects to see a Diablo protocol printer on b and port a (modem) is left uninitialized. We are trying to use port a. . I'm completely stuck. The last time I messed with the sio was about 5 years ago on a MLZ-92. I remember it was a pain, but that was because of the "must pgm wr4 first" problem. We even changed the sio just for fun, and scoped the 1488/89's looking for one that might be crossing over - nope. Anyone got an idea, I'll even try absurd ones! thanks, Eddie Msg#:12964 *GENERAL* 01/18/89 08:51:34 From: JOEY PARKER To: ALL Subj: VIDEO OVERLAY I have an application that requires the overlay of computer generated BLACK/WHITE images over the NTSC output from a VCR. I have used the Video Charlie/EGA board combination from Progressive Image Technology, but I was looking for something less expensive (VC/EGA = $1000). Also, since I only need B/W, not color, I would like to use the composite output from a CGA card as the source of the computer graphics. Any suggestions would be appreciated! Msg#:13021 *GENERAL* 01/19/89 15:35:03 From: RANDALL S. MAR To: ALL USERS Subj: 8031/8051 DISK INTERFACE. Currently searching for an MS-DOS floppy disk driver to be used within a microcontroller-based product. Specifics: the product uses an 8031/8051 microcontroller and a 3.5" 720KB floppy drive. However, we're so desparate, that we're interested in the low-level ("BIOS" level) and MS-DOS level software for ANY processor. (We already have the AT BIOS listing for this device.) Also VERY interested in hiring a consultant who has written this software, and who can help our inhouse effort. Please contact Randall S. Mar (San Diego, CA); 619-457-5091 ext. 424. Msg#:13031 *GENERAL* 01/19/89 19:35:22 From: JEFF JENSEN To: KEN DAVIDSON (Rcvd) Subj: X10 TESTING Ken, do you know how difficult it would be to build a coupler/filter to allow using an o'scope on the AC power line to monitor the X10 frequency range? I suspect that my intermittent problems with X10 control may be as a result of noise on the line and if I can identify it, it may be easier to fix. Thanks - - Jeff Msg#:13056 *GENERAL* 01/20/89 08:49:49 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: JEFF JENSEN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 13031 (X10 TESTING) The only thing special you have to do is either use an isolating transformer or use an adapter on the power plug that allows you to plug the scope into an outlet without the ground prong being connected (a 3-prong to 2-prong adapter). As long as the scope's ground is isolated from earth ground, you can go ahead and connect the scope directly to the power line and watch the X-10 signals. Just be sure the input range is properly set before you connect anything and be very careful what you touch. Msg#:13074 *GENERAL* 01/20/89 18:40:29 From: JEFF JENSEN To: KEN DAVIDSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 13056 (X10 TESTING) Is there any need to knock the 60 Hz signal down with a filter, so that only the higher frequencies get through? - - Jeff Msg#:13093 *GENERAL* 01/21/89 09:59:02 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: JEFF JENSEN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 13074 (X10 TESTING) If I remember, the last time I looked at the line signal I didn't have any trouble picking off the 120-kHz signals without anything special. Since they occur at zero crossing, you can crank up the display and center it on 0V to see the signals. Msg#:13197 *GENERAL* 01/23/89 17:48:38 From: JEFF JENSEN To: KEN DAVIDSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 13093 (X10 TESTING) OK, that sounds "do-able". Thanks. - - Jeff Msg#:13053 *GENERAL* 01/20/89 08:28:29 From: MICHAEL POLAK To: JEFF JENSEN (Rcvd) Subj: X10 Jeff, A company called ONEAC had a device they called a line viewer that would allow a person to use an o-scope to look at any noise on an AC line. Their mian business is selling equipment to rid the noise on the line for computers. If you need the number let me know. Msg#:13072 *GENERAL* 01/20/89 18:37:43 From: JEFF JENSEN To: MICHAEL POLAK (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 13053 (X10) Michael, if you have a number, I will call them for some info. Thanks. - - Jeff Msg#:13054 *GENERAL* 01/20/89 08:40:07 From: BRUCE WEBB To: JEFF JENSEN (Rcvd) Subj: PC BOARDS ON A COPIER Jeff, I've had some success using making PC boards {_by using a copier to make a positive transparency. Once you have a black on clear sheet you can use GC or Vector PC boards that are 'sensitized' and a black light to transfer the image to the PC board. Then you develope and etch. I've found it to be easy -- and reliable. I was using CAD output which made it even easier. Good Luck. Bruce. Msg#:13073 *GENERAL* 01/20/89 18:39:15 From: JEFF JENSEN To: BRUCE WEBB (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 13054 (PC BOARDS ON A COPIER) That may be the prefered method. At the time, I didn't want to fool around with sensitized boards and had easy access to lots of different copiers. - - Jeff Msg#:14726 *GENERAL* 02/23/89 10:07:40 From: DAVID K. MERRIMAN To: BRUCE WEBB (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 13054 (PC BOARDS ON A COPIER) Just a word of advice: most copiers will reduce the image, to differing degrees. Take a sheet of graph paper, copy it, and compare the copy to the original, and you'll see what I mean. Granted MOST of the time, it won't make a lot of difference, but if your circuit was more dependent on the dimensions, then you could find yourself with a small problem. With good copiers, the reduction is only a couple of percent; with cheaper ones, it could be as much as 7 or 8- even 10%!! <}Dave{> Msg#:14732 *GENERAL* 02/23/89 12:02:18 From: BRUCE WEBB To: DAVID K. MERRIMAN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 14726 (PC BOARDS ON A COPIER) David, I have usually worked from an oversized original anyway, in which case there is always some experimentation to get the exact size. This method has worked extreemly well for me. I'd recommend it to anyone who wants to make a small number of boards (especially single sided.) Bruce Msg#:13063 *GENERAL* 01/20/89 11:33:43 From: ROBERT TOWNSEND To: ALL Subj: NEW BBS FOR SMT The Surface Mount Technology BBS is now up and running. This BBS has over 10 message area topics devoted to different SMT issues such as stencil printing, solder reflow processes, SMT design guidelines, etc. It is available 24 hours a day at 916-635-8665, 2400 or 1200 baud. Msg#:13068 *GENERAL* 01/20/89 17:20:30 From: CHET FITCH To: ALL Subj: 2-SERIAL MICROCONTROLLERS Does anyone know of a microcontroller chip that contains 2 serial channels? -Other than the 8052. The 8052 has a number of unneeded functions on it that I don't need, and since I visualize mass-producing the application I have in mind, I need a minimal chip. While I could tack-on a UART to a 1-serial chip, I want to keep the chip count down (for obvious reasons). I have exhausted my technical library in searching for such a thing, and hope that someone out there might help me... I need very little more than 2 serial channels and one parallel port on the chip. Everything else can be done in software. I would appreciate any feedback.... Thanks- Chet Msg#:13151 *GENERAL* 01/22/89 16:24:20 From: STEVE CIARCIA To: CHET FITCH (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 13068 (2-SERIAL MICROCONTROLLERS) The 647180 (EPROM version of the 64180) has 2 async and 1 synchronous serial channels. It has no A/D but it has a bunch of internal comparators. --Steve Msg#:13261 *GENERAL* 01/25/89 01:57:45 From: JIM NELSON To: CHET FITCH (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 13068 (2-SERIAL MICROCONTROLLERS) Chet, what's your application? There are several microcontrollers with dual serial ports of various natures. Most, unfortunately, are combinations of one channel of full duplex unclocked UART type I/O and one channel of SCI type high speed clocked serial I/O. The 68HC11, and one or two members of the 6805 family are in this class. If you are really looking for the cheapest approach, look at some of the low end 6805s, perhaps even the 6804: do the serial ports in software. They're $2.50 in rommed high quantity. $5-$7 or so in lower quantity (5k) Eprom equivalents. Msg#:13302 *GENERAL* 01/25/89 22:26:03 From: MARK LAMPKIN To: JIM NELSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 13261 (2-SERIAL MICROCONTROLLERS) Chet...To add to Jim's comment,the 6805 application manual has the code to simulate a uart in software...Small changes to make 2,3,4 or more in the same chip,provided you don't run out of I/O pins.The 68705 is advertised for $8.95 for the 68705P3 and $9.95 for the 68705u3 in the Jameco ad's this month....The 'P3 has 20 I/O pins and the 'U3 has 32....Mark Msg#:13341 *GENERAL* 01/27/89 00:53:01 From: CHET FITCH To: JIM NELSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 13261 (2-SERIAL MICROCONTROLLERS) Thanks, Jim! I'll dig out that information. Since you asked: I've been playing with this idea for some time, and lately worked out some of the design issues. What I'd like to do is put together a relatively low-cost ($100-150) intelligent network controller. I have 4 main computers of different types at home, plus quite a number of peripherals that all talk via serial channels. I am sick and tired of moving cables and using switch boxes. The visualized controller would have a cheap microcontroller on each serial line and an independent master controlling who talks to who via a simple backplane. One could use a single terminal and talk to any system or peripheral. (Think of it as a small Telenet) I am thinking of 16 channels, at a cost of, say, $10 a channel Therefore, I need a controller with 2 serial lines. Each processor would do buffering of input/output text, so straight, simple, TTL circuitry is insufficient. Again: thanks! Chet Msg#:13342 *GENERAL* 01/27/89 00:54:17 From: CHET FITCH To: MARK LAMPKIN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 13302 (2-SERIAL MICROCONTROLLERS) Thanks, Mark! I'll dig that info out... Appreciate the help. Chet Msg#:13350 *GENERAL* 01/27/89 10:05:45 From: STEVE CIARCIA To: CHET FITCH (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 13341 (2-SERIAL MICROCONTROLLERS) We are presenting a net controller project in CC INK starting in March issue. Stay tuned. --Steve Msg#:13076 *GENERAL* 01/20/89 20:16:33 From: JEFF HENSHAW To: GARY LEAR (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 9424 (MOTOROLA BBS) Several months later, I'm back... Yes, I think this would be a good article. CCINK seems to focus on Intel and Zilog parts, Moto would be an excellent addition. Jeff Msg#:13095 *GENERAL* 01/21/89 10:15:43 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: JEFF HENSHAW (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 13076 (MOTOROLA BBS) I don't understand how you can say INK covers mostly Intel and Zilog with no Motorola. There's been virtually nothing using Zilog parts so far and the Intel articles have consisted of a few 8031/52 articles and some IBM PC support software. The entire weather series is based on a 68000 and issues 6 and 7 have a data logger based on a 6809. Plus I've purposely tried to cover as much Motorola as possible in my ConnecTime message threads to try to eliminate such statements. We are continuously looking for articles based on all processors and would gladly publish more Motorola stuff if it was submitted (and met certain editorial criteria). But it's not fair to say there's been no Motorola coverage so far. Msg#:13263 *GENERAL* 01/25/89 06:01:08 From: GARY LEAR To: JEFF HENSHAW (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 13076 (MOTOROLA BBS) I think Jeff is unintentionally refering to previous Circuit Cellar articles in an unmentionable magazine. Jeff, I am still in the hospital (after 6 weeks I should finally be out by the weekend) and as such I haven't been able to work on my projects very much. I still intend to write some Moto articles (heres hoping that they meet that mythical "editorial criteria" that Ken mentioned) when my world restabilizes a bit. Thanks for the note of encouragement. --Gary Msg#:13077 *GENERAL* 01/20/89 20:24:36 From: JEFF HENSHAW To: ALL Subj: MEMORY HELP NEEDED Help! I just bought a used NEC powermate 386 with 1 MB of RAM. The problem is that the 380KB above the normal DOS 640 K seems unusable except for copying the EGA BIOS and ROM BIOS. Supposedly this is LIM-spec extended (expanded? I forget which is which) memory, but nothing seems to use the extended RAM unless I have MORE than 1 MB! Is there anything I can do to use this memory as extended (expanded?) memory? Failing this, where can I pick up a program to copy the ROM BIOS to this RAM? Thanks! Jeff Msg#:13078 *GENERAL* 01/20/89 20:25:49 From: DALE REID To: ALL Subj: HOUSE WIRING INTERCOM I have just picked up a Radio-Shack fm interecom for about $100 for three that is supposed to use the house wiring for transmission. My problem is that it seems to have less than desired distance, and noise to go along with it. I have returned one set, only to find taht the second sones perform just as poorly as the first. I have looked to find if they wre on circuits on separate halves of the power panel, and sometimes yes, sometimes no is the answer. My house is only 65' long, and of course the panel is at one end, our bedroom at the other, and the kids' room downstairs is towards the wrong end. Bute ven so, the distance shouldn't be over 150' wires and all included. The store manager says they have "lots" out there without problem, and is hesistant to give me another set to unwrap. Any thoughts? If I'm having trobuel with this system, would the remote controlers like x-10 ALSO not work? Any thoughts on an easy, safe, safe, safe, safe way to bridge the two halves of the power panel so what little signal does get out could be picked up on the other bus? Thanks in advance. Dale Msg#:13091 *GENERAL* 01/21/89 09:44:38 From: BOB PIERCE To: PELLERVO KASKINEN (Rcvd) Subj: TUTORIAL Here is a FAX number that is good till the end of the month. My company is in the process of moving to a new office building. If you cant send the tutorial by then, I'll have a new number for you in Feb. 505-265-3891. thanks ........ BOB Msg#:13770 *GENERAL* 02/05/89 08:50:03 From: PELLERVO KASKINEN To: BOB PIERCE (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 13091 (TUTORIAL) Sorry, I could not make it by the end of last month due to traveling and other important (to my employer) assignments. The limited time seems to continue, also for personal reasons -- may indeed be a while before I really get to it. But I looked enough to see some possibilities of presenting some tabular part in writing within the file. Let's hope the best. -- PJK Msg#:14313 *GENERAL* 02/17/89 00:24:59 From: BOB PIERCE To: PELLERVO KASKINEN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 13770 (TUTORIAL) No problem. It's a project I've set aside for now. The next time I call I'll leave you my offices new FAX number. thanx again BOB Msg#:13099 *GENERAL* 01/21/89 10:53:38 From: BUDDY PRICE To: ALL Subj: ULTRASONIC RANGEFINDER Has anyone used the Texas Insturments Ultrasonic Rangefinder module under battery power. I need to use it in a small, low power 'rob{t' and am concerned about how much power it draws. I would also appreciate any comments from anyone who has used the module. Thanks. Msg#:13392 *GENERAL* 01/28/89 04:31:31 From: GARY LEAR To: BUDDY PRICE (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 13099 (ULTRASONIC RANGEFINDER) I have used, and I am still using the TI module with a Polaroid transducer. The entire device uses a little more than 2 amps during xmit, but the overall duration is short. Battery life is largely dependent on the frequency (pun intended) of your soundings (pun also intended!). I have found the unit to work well in my robot, but the sonic cone is too broad for casual use (it is possible to map a room with it, if you are into alot of math). I am working on augmenting it with a laser or IR led rangefinder. Good luck. --Gary Msg#:13418 *GENERAL* 01/28/89 17:42:46 From: BUDDY PRICE To: GARY LEAR (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 13392 (ULTRASONIC RANGEFINDER) Gary, thanks for the info. You might take a look at an article in The International Journal of Robotics Research, Vol.7, No. 6, December 1988 on Combining Sonar and Infrared Sensors for Mobile Robot Navigation. I ran across it during a literature search and they have some interesting ideas on using near infrared LED's to improve the overall resolution of the information (e.g. finding corners). Buddy Msg#:13791 *GENERAL* 02/05/89 19:49:44 From: GARY LEAR To: BUDDY PRICE (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 13418 (ULTRASONIC RANGEFINDER) Buddy, always glad to help. I haven't been keeping track of my journals, or anything else recently (I have been in the hospital for the past 7 weeks). The article that you referenced sounds very interesting. It has a direct bearing on my current robotics project. Since the polaroid transducer has such a wide cone angle (relatively speaking), it is difficult to resolve a doorway beyond a few feet, let alone a corner. My work in this area has incorporated a two prong approach; 1) Use a laser or IRLED rangefinder and scanner combination (optical radar) to radically improve the resolution of the data. 2) Detailed analysis of the echo data to determine if the error sources can be detected on a probability basis, and if so, to then use multiple echo reflection to confirm a corner configuration. Most of the papers that I have studied come from the MIT AI lab. There is some fascinating work being done there. Thanks for the info and please stay in touch. --Regards, Gary P.S. I saw an acoustic focusing device at Polaroids booth at Wescon. It wasn't made by them, but it uses their device and delivers a 2 degree cone. I don't remember the manufacturer, Polaroid may be able to tell you, or it is probably in my notes somewhere. Good luck! Msg#:14042 *GENERAL* 02/11/89 08:44:35 From: BUDDY PRICE To: GARY LEAR (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 13791 (ULTRASONIC RANGEFINDER) Gary, thanks. Your approach sounds much like what the paper I told you about was doing. For my project, I'm simply trying to avoid obstacles that are 0 to 3 feet away. So I don't have much problem with the cone. Thanks again for the info. Buddy Msg#:14071 *GENERAL* 02/12/89 04:14:31 From: GARY LEAR To: BUDDY PRICE (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 14042 (ULTRASONIC RANGEFINDER) Buddy, glad to be of service. Is there any chance that you could send me a copy of the paper that you mentioned? My address is: Gary L. Lear 2715 Vanderbilt Lane Unit A Redondo Beach, CA 90278. I would appreciate anything you can do. Have you considered other sensor approaches? I have done some work with a variety of methods. If you can tell me more (resolution, field of view, etc.) I can see if any of them are appropriate. Thanks. --Regards, Gary Msg#:13101 *GENERAL* 01/21/89 12:23:30 From: KEITH JESSE To: ALL Subj: STD COMPUTER FOR SALE FOR SALE 2ea CPM type computers with hard disks..$250.00ea each computer is comprised of: 1ea Qume qvt102 tilt/swivel terminal w/detatched keyboard 1ea mostek STD bus computer with six slot backplane ,single board CPU, double density floppy disk controller, SASE hard disk interface, tandon 5meg HD and Xebec controller, ssdd 8" floppy drive large switching power supply and of course all in an attractive case. these computers have one parallel printer port each, and one serial port for the terminal. they include some software that came on the hard disks (WS,CS,dBaseII), and a few blank floppies. These do not have cpm on them instead they have MOS-80. this is mostek's answer to cpm that is supposed to be completely compatable. I also have a 300baud internal modem that I will throw in with the first one sold for cash. Yes all this can be your's for a mere $250.00, or make me a reasonable offer for the whole shooting match, I'll make a great deal! call me at home after 5:30 but please, not after 9:00 pm west coast time (I can't check back on this board regularly). Keith Jesse (206) 364-0290. Msg#:13102 *GENERAL* 01/21/89 12:42:36 From: MICHAEL SKUCZAS To: ALL Subj: MC68881 Who would I have to write to get the necessary info to create assembly language programs for the ATARI ST computer using a 68881 math coprocessor? I am not talking about the MEGA ST's. Mine is a 520 with 1 Meg of memory. I own 2 assembly language programs(AS68K and AssemPro). Neither of these suspport the MC68881. I would like to find the hexadecimal codes to use in order to write the MC68881 so it will execute math instructions. Example: Move FSIN, INSTRUCTREG I am loading the instruction to find the sine of a operand I have loaded into the Operand reg. I han#{ve the technical summary but not what the opcodes are in hex. Can anyone help? signed Michael Skuczas Msg#:13540 *GENERAL* 01/30/89 23:40:52 From: FRANK KUECHMANN To: MICHAEL SKUCZAS (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 13102 (MC68881) Get the "MC68881 Floating-Point Coprocessor User's Manual" [MC68881MU/AD] from a Motorola distributor. Msg#:13700 *GENERAL* 02/03/89 17:07:39 From: MICHAEL SKUCZAS To: FRANK KUECHMANN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 13540 (MC68881) Thanks, in fact prior to logging on I did call the local distributor. At least by your suggestion I feel that it may answer my questions. signed Michael Skuczas Msg#:13103 *GENERAL* 01/21/89 13:23:24 From: MICHAEL GRAHAM To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: FORTH I am presently in the process of building up a small 8051-based (actuallyit's an 80C451) robotics controller. On board is a ROM from Bryte Computersin Augusta, Maine [ (207) 547-3218 ] containing a very nice version ofFORTH. Have you ever tried FORTH? Being the hardware person that I am, Ifound it to be one of the handiest tools available (beats the pants off ofBASIC and is much faster to work with than machine language). The ROM is 8Kin size and goes for $100 including the manual. Seeing all of the thingsyou've done over the past years (I was a charter Byte subscriber), itoccurred to me that if you're not using FORTH, you might find it a majorasset (it was originally written to be a robotics/motor control language). Msg#:13148 *GENERAL* 01/22/89 16:12:41 From: STEVE CIARCIA To: MICHAEL GRAHAM (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 13103 (FORTH) I am familiar with FORTH but I'm not much of a programme. BTW, Micromint has a Z8 chip with a FORTH language in it ($30?). --Steve Msg#:13156 *GENERAL* 01/22/89 19:30:17 From: KEITH TUCHOLSKI To: MICHAEL GRAHAM (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 13103 (FORTH) I AM ALSO LOOKING AT THE '451 AND WOULD LIKE TO THE DISCUSS THE FORTH ROM W/ YOU. KEITH Msg#:13419 *GENERAL* 01/28/89 17:55:01 From: MICHAEL GRAHAM To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 13148 (FORTH) Being the hardware person that you are, I think you'll find FORTH to be not only easy to learn (real simple if you're used to an HP calculator) but a SUPER tool for exercising hardware! Msg#:13420 *GENERAL* 01/28/89 17:57:14 From: MICHAEL GRAHAM To: KEITH TUCHOLSKI (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 13156 (FORTH) It's readily available from the good folks at Bryte. The manual was all I needed to bring up a small system (which has since expanded). The basic system can be created using less than a half-dozen chips! Let me know if you have any specific questions. Michael. Msg#:13106 *GENERAL* 01/21/89 15:50:50 From: ANGEL WELSH To: STEVE CIARCIA/ANYONE Subj: SERIAL EPROM PROGRAMMER IS THERE A SCHEMATIC AVAILABLE TO BUILD A CIRCUIT TO PROGRAM MICROCONTROLLERS SUCH AS 8748,8751 AND MAYBE SOME MOTOROLA PARTS. WHERE CAN I GET IT IF SO? ANY HELP WWILL BE MUCH APPRESIATED!!!! Msg#:13123 *GENERAL* 01/21/89 20:57:21 From: MARK LAMPKIN To: ANGEL WELSH Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 13106 (SERIAL EPROM PROGRAMMER) Concerning the Motorola family of eprom containing micro's,the data manuals have the complete circuit for programming the beasts...The 8748/49 family of processors is my next project,(in the basement works).They are actually quite easy to program...It's the software to run the pgm'r that's a bear....Catch me in a few weeks and I'll share the circuit and software with you...Mark... Msg#:13188 *GENERAL* 01/23/89 12:15:58 From: BOB PADDOCK To: ANGEL WELSH Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 13106 (SERIAL EPROM PROGRAMMER) The July 1982 issue of Digital Design had "A Simple Programmer For The 8748" page 23-25; by Terry Hinshaw. Any one who wants a copy of this send me a S.A.S.E at Box 167A RD #1 Summit Dr, Franklin PA 16323 In care of Matric Limited. Msg#:13118 *GENERAL* 01/21/89 17:10:54 From: MARK BALCH To: ALL Subj: 6800 ASSEMBLER WORKS! I'd like to thank everyone who helped me with my assembler problem over the past weeks. With your help, I was able to generate working code. The assembler works and now the only thing that I can blame failure on is myself! When I finally build my circuit, I'll be able to easily (well sorta easy!) modify the code until it works. Thanks again. Bye, Mark Msg#:13119 *GENERAL* 01/21/89 17:29:20 From: BUDDY PRICE To: VIC FRAENCKEL (Rcvd) Subj: HPGL Vic, the documentation that comes with the HP7475 plotter has all the information you need. You need to try and find someone with one of the plotters; perhaps a nearby university or junior college. Or maybe you can get the local computer store that handles HP products to let you take a glance at one. Anyway, it has all the handshaking sequences for the plotter. I borrowed a copy of the command set and got a copy but didn't get the part on the handshaking signals. If you are unable to find the stuff locally, leave me a message and I'll see if I can get the books again and copy what you need. Buddy Price Msg#:13519 *GENERAL* 01/30/89 16:20:42 From: VIC FRAENCKEL To: BUDDY PRICE (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 13119 (HPGL) buddy - sorry i haven't replied before this - what i really need is the command set documentation not the interfacing stuff. can ypu help me??? any assistance is appreciated. vic Msg#:14727 *GENERAL* 02/23/89 10:14:06 From: DAVID K. MERRIMAN To: BUDDY PRICE (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 13119 (HPGL) Vic; if you get in touch with your local HP rep/dealer, they SHOULD be able to provide you with a little booklet that HP puts out that includes the full HPGL command set, including devices that each command works on, usage, syntax, etc. They may hit you up for a couple of dollars, but the manual is good for virtually ALL HPGL plotters. Hope this helps. <]Dave[> Msg#:13126 *GENERAL* 01/21/89 23:00:53 From: CRAIG DEADY To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: Z8 FORTH Steve, I am having problems calling machine language routines from Z8 FORTH using the EXECUTE word. The routine runs but I can not return control to FORTH. How can I do this? Also, Is there an update to the version of Forth that I have mine is Z8 FORTH vers: 2.0 dated 1984. Thanks, Craig Msg#:13150 *GENERAL* 01/22/89 16:21:02 From: STEVE CIARCIA To: CRAIG DEADY (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 13126 (Z8 FORTH) You are definately talking to the wrong guy if you want me to debug a FORTH program. Jeff Bachiochi can perhaps put you on to the author or someone who can help you. I don't know of any revision. There are some ROM utilties I believe and there is a BASIC to FORTH translator (not necessarily for the chip. It may be just PC based). --Steve Msg#:13207 *GENERAL* 01/23/89 20:35:29 From: JIM NELSON To: CRAIG DEADY (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 13126 (Z8 FORTH) I don't know anything about your Z-8 Forth, but I do know that EXECUTE wants to see the CFA of a word on the stack, and if it's a code word that's been called, it should terminate with a NEXT JMP or something with that effect. Post your code and I'll tell you for sure. Or post your question on the East Coast Forth Board at 703-442-8695. Either way I'll help you out. Regards --- Msg#:13256 *GENERAL* 01/24/89 22:58:58 From: CRAIG DEADY To: JIM NELSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 13207 (Z8 FORTH) Jim, The Z8 Forth version from Circuit Cellar wants on the top of the stack an address of a pointer to the machine code routine. The word list in the manual does not list the word next. I am familiar with the word next but am not sure if it is in this limited version of forth. The forth is on a prom plugged into a Z8 proto-pack. Craig. Msg#:13273 *GENERAL* 01/25/89 10:09:30 From: STEVE CIARCIA To: CRAIG DEADY (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 13256 (Z8 FORTH) The Z8 FORTH used to be on an EPROM/piggyback Z8. It is now a masked 4K ROM Z8 chip. --STeve Msg#:13301 *GENERAL* 01/25/89 22:20:38 From: MARK LAMPKIN To: CRAIG DEADY (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 13126 (Z8 FORTH) Where and how much costa the Z8 with masked Forth....What is the source for such a gem....What documentation is available....Mark Msg#:13311 *GENERAL* 01/26/89 06:50:08 From: JIM NELSON To: CRAIG DEADY (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 13256 (Z8 FORTH) Craig. How did you write the machine code for your Z-8 system? I found a copy of the BCC21 Z8 forth system data sheet. But I found no sign of an assembler vocabulary or the words CODE , ;CODE , or anything else required by an integrated FORTH assembler. In the standard forths (FIG, 79-std, 83-std) one pushes the codefield address (CFA) of a word on the stack and then EXECUTEs it. This is true for the most widespread forth inner interpreter architectures (direct, indirect, or subroutine threaded). Since there's no assembler vocabulary, or the word CODE anywhere in sight, I'll guess that the machine code you're trying to execute is a subroutine. How do you pass parameters to and from this subroutine? Are you preserving any reg- isters used by the inner interpreter? Have you any documentation on this subject? Msg#:13312 *GENERAL* 01/26/89 06:51:04 From: JIM NELSON To: MARK LAMPKIN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 13301 (Z8 FORTH) You can also contact Inner Access Corp. (415) 591-8295. They have a Zilog Super8 FORTH processor development system: F83 (almost) standard, full forth structured assembler, PC host support. Msg#:13333 *GENERAL* 01/26/89 22:17:52 From: CRAIG DEADY To: JIM NELSON (Rcvd