INK Forum --------- Starting Date 07/1988 --------------------- Msg#: 4918 *INK* 07/18/88 10:02:34 From: STEVE CIARCIA To: BOB PADDOCK (Rcvd) Subj: NO LONGER IN BYTE Bob, you be happy to know that Curt Franklin has just joined our staff to become CC INK's new editor-in-chief. We are serious about CC INK and it will keep expanding. If you are tired about belly-up BYTE, then tell people about Circuit Cellar INK. The more subscriptions we get and the faster it grows the sooner it will fill the void for all of us. I think it is pretty amazing that circulation is 10,000 already with only 3 issues out the door. -- STeve Msg#: 5009 *INK* 07/20/88 12:19:07 From: BOB PADDOCK To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 4918 (NO LONGER IN BYTE) I tell every one that I know of. My appalages to Mr Franklin, but who is he? (I guess I should read the masthead more often.....) Msg#: 5018 *INK* 07/20/88 14:58:52 From: STEVE CIARCIA To: BOB PADDOCK (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 5009 (NO LONGER IN BYTE) Curt was the BYTE editor in charge of the new BYTE testing lab and one of the few people at BYTE who actually knew what real hardware was. He is{ eminently qualified for the position and was offered the job at at least two other magazines before coming to CC INK. I'm sure he'll describe more about himself when he's on here again. -- Steve Msg#: 5330 *INK* 07/28/88 11:55:48 From: CURT FRANKLIN To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 4918 (NO LONGER IN BYTE) Well, since you gave me the opening, I guess I should tell people about myself... Most recently, I was Senior Testing Editor at BYTE. I put together the equipment and staff for the testing lab, and did some work on the new BYTE benchmarks. Before BYTE, I was Senior Conference Coordinator at The Interface Group. I put together the conferences for the BYTE Computer Shows, the occaissional COMDEX and the West Coast Computer Faire. My academic training is in art and computer science, I'm married with one child, my three main hobbies are music, reading and cooking. Now for the important stuff... Steve brought me on board because we are making Circuit Cellar INK into a serious "real" publication. We know that there is still a need for a magazine that isn't afraid to go into genuine technical depth, and a demand for articles that tell people how to work with their own equipment, not just how to buy other people's. We believe that the best magazines are written, in large part, by their readers, and we certainly want INK to be the best. I look forward to getting suggestions, critiques and articles from our readers. I'm available here, via USMail, telephone and BIX (`curtf'). I hope that our readers will continue to tell me what they want to see in INK, and keep sending in articles based on the designs that they've put together. Msg#: 5344 *INK* 07/28/88 18:39:32 From: JACK PERGAL To: KEN DAVIDSON (Rcvd) Subj: DOWNLOAD LIMITS Ken how about removing the daily download limit or at least making it fairly large (say 1 meg). since I'm paying for the call I don't see why you have a limit on K bytes dl'd. I don't always know when I'll be able to get back on so would like to dl all the latest project files when possible. Another question: Is there a command that will list all new files posted to the BBS since my last logon? I lose track of what was here on previous calls. . Jack Msg#: 5371 *INK* 07/29/88 09:13:23 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: JACK PERGAL (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 5344 (DOWNLOAD LIMITS) This BBS is here predominantly for the exchange of information through the message areas and *not* as a file clearinghouse. Lately, I haven't walked past the system without noticing at least two or three callers on at the same time. Even though we have multiple lines, we're slowly getting to the point where people are going to start complaining again about all the busy signals. If I give everyone free reign to download as much as they'd like, there would be even more problems with tied up phone lines. I felt at the time I set the system up (and still feel) that 200K per day is a perfectly valid limit given our goals and the current amount of traffic here. If the board sat dormant for hours at a time between calls, that would be another thing, but it's just too busy around here to tie up valuable phone lines with file transfers. Msg#: 5367 *INK* 07/29/88 02:23:10 From: CRAIG TRADER To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: NOT IN BYTE ANYMORE Ten years ago when I first started playing around with computers I bought a copy of a smallish magazine called, oddly enough, BYTE. The first article was something called "Ciarcia's Circuit Cellar" and it had this funny lead in about a working vacation & a hexidecimal/octal display unit. Ever since then I've always turned to your column first when I got my copy of BYTE. I'm sorry to hear that the editors of BYTE have not seen fit to keep the Circuit Cellar running. I am glad to have found a copy of a smallish magazine called "Circuit Cellar INK." My first years subscription check is already in the mail. Here's hoping your magazine is as successful as BYTE is, without forgetting who made it great, like BYTE did. Msg#: 5397 *INK* 07/29/88 11:07:53 From: CURT FRANKLIN To: ALL USERS Subj: A QUESTION OF INK Hi - I want this section of the BBS to be a link between the readers of INK and the editorial staff. Since I want to be sure that INK is meeting your needs, I'll be asking questions concerning topics for articles, project ideas, etc. here. Please let me know what you think. First Question: Do you think that INK should have articles on building kits? These articles might run the gamut from "How to Successfully Build a Kit (in general)" to "How I Built the MegaKit 5000 Single-Board Cray." Do you build kits? Do you care how others build kits? Let me know. Second Question: Do you want to see design, development and testing tools in INK? I don't particularly want to see anything that looks like a review in our pages, but I want to know how you feel. I'm talking about things like bread-board systems, logic analyzers, ICEs, cross-development systems and the like. What do you think? Last Question (for today): Let's do a little blue-sky thinking here. What projects would you *really* like to see in INK? Would you like to see them just to see how it's done, or would you really like to build the project? With these blue-sky projects, who would you like to see write about them? Are there any "stars" out there that I should know about? Well, that's it for today. Please take some time and talk to me about these questions, and together we'll make sure that INK stays a magazine that you get excited about. Curt Franklin Msg#: 5406 *INK* 07/29/88 16:44:59 From: BOB PADDOCK To: CURT FRANKLIN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 5397 (A QUESTION OF INK) Answer to questiosn: 1) I'am indefernt to kits, just not some thing I get excited about. 2) Defenetly need test equpiment. You spend more time trying to get the right test equipment on hand, and working, than you do actually working on the thing you are testin{g. 3) Blue Sky: See the messages in the Project section about Anti-Gravity (R/C & Sonar). Msg#: 5434 *INK* 07/30/88 12:15:50 From: BRIAN JOSEPH To: CURT FRANKLIN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 5397 (A QUESTION OF INK) Curt, Being an amateur kit builder, I would very much like to see some articles about kit building. I realize that most of INK's readers are more advanced then I am, but I really need to know more about what I am doing. I also would like to see some product reviews, such as EPROM programmers and test equipment. As far as what type of projects I'd like to see, almostt( ANYTHING goes!! Although I don't build every project, I have on many occasions taken part of the projects and incorporated them into other things. To be honest, I read INK to learn about electronics!!! I will be going back to college in September and hopefully (by 1993!) I'll have a BSEE degree. Until then, INK is my teacher!!!! Thanks.. Brian Joseph Msg#: 5457 *INK* 07/30/88 22:03:53 From: STEVE GREENHOUSE To: CURT FRANKLIN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 5397 (A QUESTION OF INK) 1. I think after tinkering around with our respective projects we've developed our own 'style' of building them. Trying to adapt to a new way of doing things might not be all that great an idea. (Personally, I breadboard on a 3 foot by 3 foot board untill I can get my pc board etched. Saves a lot of mistakes with all that room.) As for the "Blue Sky" question, I'd like to see more control circuits. The idea of Steve's bartender is intriguing (sp?). I really don't have any specific ideas, but I'd like to be able to, when someone asks 'what does it do?' turn it on and watch their eyes bug out! Msg#: 5546 *INK* 08/01/88 19:01:43 From: JEFF JENSEN To: CURT FRANKLIN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 5397 (A QUESTION OF INK) Curt, regarding your three questions, I have these comments. First I enjoy kit building. A steady diet of kits would be dull, but sometimes the urge to build demands immediate gratification, and a kit works well. Second, tools are an integral part of technical life. They are a good topic for review and a good topic for proper techniques of use and abuse, maintenance, etc. Finally, blue sky topics could be homebrew test equipment, development systems and tools, and some high-tech tutorials on "how it works" or state-of-the- art updates. . . Jeff Msg#: 5833 *INK* 08/07/88 15:41:34 From: DUSTIN CLAMPITT To: CURT FRANKLIN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 5397 (A QUESTION OF INK) What would *I* like to see in Ink? I need a simple hand-held RS-232 battery operated terminal with any LCD display. Sounds like this would be a perfect project to develop on Steve's new 8031 development system. I'd like to do some projects using that 8031 controller but the applications I have in mind will re- quire a portable terminal to go with them. All I need is enough display to enter commands and determine what the response is. I'm not going to be reading text files or doing anything with that much terminal I/O. I'm now playing around with a Optrex 2 line x 20 character display which would probably be enough but I've seen 4 line x 80 character displays on the surplus market for $50.00 which I think would be ideal! Anyway that's what I want right now. Dustin Clampitt Msg#: 5844 *INK* 08/07/88 17:27:56 From: STEVE CIARCIA To: DUSTIN CLAMPITT (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 5833 (A QUESTION OF INK) Regarding your LCD terminal, how much do you want to spend and how much is your time worth. Simply put a Micromint BCC52 and BCC25/8 together and you have a complete 8 line by 40 character terminal for about $350 (the BCC25 board accepts a parallel ASCII keyboard input). The BCC25 comes with driver code in ROM. Write a simple BASIC program for the BCC52 as to how you want to fromat the display and your off. --Steve PS one other alternative is to order the two manuals (or a complete set for $39) and build it from scratch. Msg#: 5953 *INK* 08/09/88 20:30:10 From: KENNETH MAXON To: CURT FRANKLIN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 5397 (A QUESTION OF INK) I THINK THAT IT IS A GREAT IDEA TO OVER LOOK KIT BUILDING TECHNIQUES, OR JUST COMMENTS ON CERTIAN ONES AVAILABLE ON THE MARKET, NOT TO GET INTO FULL BLOWN REVIEWSu4OR ANYTHING! AS FAR AS THINGS OUT OF THE BLUE, I WOULD LOVE TO SEE AN ARTICLE USING THE LCD SCREEN FORM THE 8031 POSSIBLY ONE BY AMPEREX OR OMTREX, AS THIS IS A SMALL EASLIY CONNECTED OUTPUT DEVICE SUITABLE, BOTH SIZE, AND PRICE WISE FOR THE EMBEDDED CONTROLLER DESIGNER Msg#: 6068 *INK* 08/11/88 16:38:41 From: STEVE CIARCIA To: KENNETH MAXON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 5953 (A QUESTION OF INK) The next April CC INK will have an electronic crystal ball that uses an 8031 and a 2x20 LCD. Since it is April, you can guess what it will say. --Steve Msg#: 6075 *INK* 08/11/88 17:33:51 From: BOB PADDOCK To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 6068 (A QUESTION OF INK) Some one already beat you to the electronic crystal ball marked, complete with voice syn., I saw it in a catlog the other day, and wonder why any one would pay for some thing like that? Now if you could just figure out how to do an electronic wee'ge board...... ... Msg#: 6082 *INK* 08/11/88 20:33:11 From: KENNETH MAXON To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 6068 (A QUESTION OF INK) Gee, Thanks a lot!!! Msg#: 6107 *INK* 08/12/88 03:47:43 From: COLIN HARRISSON To: DUSTIN CLAMPITT (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 5833 (A QUESTION OF INK) Just for your information, there is an English company called 'Psion' that makes exactly what you are asking for. It is called the Psion Organizer II. It is a handheld computer with an alphanumeric keyboard. You can upload and download directly to and from DOS-compatible machines, via a built-in RS232 port. It is of course, programmable, and can hold up to 256K of data via removable datapaks. It sells for a few hundred dollars. As you describe, it has a 2 line LCD display. I saw it advertised in 'New Scientist' and 'Scientific American' about a month or two ago. Msg#: 6444 *INK* 08/18/88 21:15:13 From: TERRY ROSE To: CURT FRANKLIN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 5397 (A QUESTION OF INK) As a new member of the BBS my opinion may be minor,BUT please don't go into product reviews. Of course I don't mind hearing about someones favorite developement tool. Practical information on hardware or software can save a lot of footwork. My biggest wish is to see neat applications of circuit cellar projects as well as new projects. While I appreciate build it yourself projects (the best way to get to know a system!), I'm afraid I don't have the time to do it myself. By the way has anyone started using the BCC180 yet? I've ordered the BCC180/1 system as a master controller for slaved 8051 cards in an automated lathe at work that I'm designing/buil ding. I hope I haven't bit off more than I can chew! Thanks------Terry :-) Msg#: 6445 *INK* 08/18/88 21:22:00 From: TERRY ROSE To: BRIAN JOSEPH (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 5434 (A QUESTION OF INK) I have a degree and I still don't hesitate to borrow bits and pieces from other people's projects. As a very good digital instructor of mine told me "Don't re-invent the wheel!". Steve's articles have some of the best bits and pieces I've ever "borowed". Know of a good online spell checker.... Terry :-) Msg#: 6464 *INK* 08/19/88 10:20:13 From: STEVE CIARCIA To: TERRY ROSE (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 6444 (A QUESTION OF INK) I'm glad you like CC INK. It will only get better and apparently the word is getting out. We have lots of great project planned. --Steve Msg#: 6501 *INK* 08/21/88 01:49:14 From: JOHN DEARMOND To: CURT FRANKLIN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 5397 (A QUESTION OF INK) Not a subscriber yet but considering.... I would very much like to see stuff on design/fabrication tools. My company has spent several thousand dollars on PCB-CAD tools for the PC to find that most of them are junk! The industry trade magazines usually just republish press releases and so are of no use. What would really be useful would be an examination of design tools available to the serious hobbyist/small company. I seem to either see articles about >$100k systems or rehashed press releases john Msg#: 6857 *INK* 08/29/88 02:11:45 From: ROY CLAY To: CURT FRANKLIN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 5397 (A QUESTION OF INK) I would like to see articles on kits. Some reviews are helpful especially since good reviews on development tools are getting harder to find these days. I also learn alot from the build-it articles. Keep up the good work! Msg#: 7043 *INK* 09/01/88 15:48:42 From: DUSTIN CLAMPITT To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 5844 (A QUESTION OF INK) Steve: Thanks for the reply. Sorry to hear about BYTE not re- negotiating, I guess they didn't realize they would lose my sub- scription monies by such a move. :-) They lose my bucks, you get'em! Back to the subject of a portable terminal -- Spending the $350.00 for the Micromint terminal boards or even the Psion handheld unit seems out of the question. A package using the MM boards would be too bulky and is simply overkill since I want an LCD display. The Psion is too small (and also too expensive to be dragging it around where I will be taking it). With the surplus of various keyboards available and the low cost of LCD displays I though it would be great to have what would be essen- tially a complete terminal in a keyboard enclosure. It would have a LCD display and simple dip switch settings for baud, character framing, etc. It needn't do any emulation, it needn't beep, it wouldn't do any more than transmit standard ascii via RS-232 and display keystrokes echoed. Obviously, it could never be used to edit files, play games or even display large amounts of data. But it could be easily battery powered, it would have a full-size keyboard instead of some dinky keypad and it should/would be CHEAP! What am I going to with such a thing? Fun things, silly things. I envision certain applications where it would be used as a console device for simple, remote, 12-volt powered process control. A full sized term- inal is out of the question. Anyway, once the summer is over I want to build your 8051 development system. I guess I've chosen my first project. Thanks again, Dustin Clampitt Msg#: 7495 *INK* 09/16/88 08:02:50 From: TONI CORTEZ To: DUSTIN CLAMPITT Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 5833 (A QUESTION OF INK) You have my vote for the LCD battery operated terminal. Msg#: 5436 *INK* 07/30/88 12:18:19 From: BRIAN JOSEPH To: KEN DAVIDSON (Rcvd) Subj: INK #4 HAS INK #4 BEEN MAILED YET??? THANKS...BRIAN Msg#: 5438 *INK* 07/30/88 12:21:31 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: BRIAN JOSEPH (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 5436 (INK #4) It has just come in from the printers and should start mailing next week. You should see it within a week and a half or so if nothing goes wrong. Msg#: 5668 *INK* 08/03/88 15:19:40 From: KEITH BOWERS To: INK STAFF Subj: IEEE-488 The gentleman wishing info on ieee-488 might want to check directly with ieee. Copies of ieee spcs should be available at a nominal charge. My 1975 copy of ieee-488 seemed to have much of the information that he requested. INK is great...keep up the good work. Msg#: 5695 *INK* 08/04/88 08:25:32 From: DALE HAMMER To: KEITH BOWERS (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 5668 (IEEE-488) Keith, I work for Hewlett-Packard and have access to an IEEE-488 tutorial guide. I would be glad to send one to those who would like it (hope I don't get zillions of requests). Msg#: 5847 *INK* 08/07/88 19:47:57 From: KEITH BOWERS To: DALE HAMMER Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 5695 (IEEE-488) Many thanks for the offer, but I don't plan to build anything usint HPIB in the near future. Just wanted remind folks that IEEE standards are available. Msg#: 5888 *INK* 08/08/88 20:28:20 From: CHUCK PATTEN To: DALE HAMMER Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 5695 (IEEE-488) hi Dale, If you haven't been swamped and can stand one more, I would like to receive a copy of the IEEE-488 guide also. Chuck Patten, c/o GLOBAL WULFSBERG SYSTEMS, 2144 Michelson Drive, Irvine CA 92715-1340. Thanks. chuck Msg#: 5724 *INK* 08/04/88 18:16:45 From: BUDDY PRICE To: INK RESEARCH STAFF Subj: TANDY 1000SX SOUND Unless Tandy has changed its ways, the Tandy 1000SX has a SN7696 Sound Generator chip in it. It is capable of 3 channels of sound plus white noise. The BASIC that comes with the Tandy has special sound commands to access this chip. In order to access them from another language, you must be able to write directly to the ports. More info is available in the Tech Reference Manual, plus from (the now dead) 80 Micro magazine. So the Tandy can do a better job with sound, but nobody writes the special software to access it Msg#: 5748 *INK* 08/05/88 00:49:39 From: DALE NASSAR To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: HOLOGRAPHY Steve, I was thinking about holography and Ink and got the crazy notion to simulate the holographic recording process by computer, plot it, photoreduce it and illuminate with a HeNe. And WOW--it worked!! I would really like to present this as an INK project. I still have a couple of problems to overcome: The hologram of 7 mathematical points (3-D) took 27 hours to compute, but then I was using GW-BASIC. I am told that QuickBasic 4.0 with a coprocessor would greatly help. (I'm not big on programming). Also it would be a couple of months before I could prepare an article since I am working on this in spare time. From theory, I should be able to produce synthetic binary holograms of any graphic array (true 3-D) of pixels. Depth simulation of surface graphs is eliminated--just plug in the desired z-coordinate. But now the programmer has to contend with the concept of hidden "rays" rather than hidden lines. What also comes to mind is that the pseudoscopic (real image) in the reconstruction can be corrected by the computer so that the fascinating real image which floats in space between the hologram and observer can now be observed undistorted. --Dale Msg#: 5759 *INK* 08/05/88 09:55:56 From: STEVE CIARCIA To: DALE NASSAR (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 5748 (HOLOGRAPHY) Sounds like a great project. Keep Curt informed so he can schedule it as well as look for related materials. Perhaps a bunch of laser projects would make a good issue. -- STeve Msg#: 5808 *INK* 08/06/88 22:49:26 From: DOMINICK LEVA To: KEN DAVIDSON (Rcvd) Subj: HOMEMINDER I just bought a Radio Shack/ GE Homeminder unit. I really like the unit but I am confused on one point of operation. On the main menu you are given choices 1 through 6, choice one is begin here. If I type in a zero on this screen I get a message that says "do you want to use both a phone answering machine and the phone function on homeminder?" 1=yes 2=no. If I type the "help" key I get a message that says "see telephone operations and messages in the operation section of the owners manual". Page 24 of my owners manual says "The Homeminder system should not be connected to your telephone line if an answering machine is used in your house." So why do I get a choice on a menu screen? Did Radio Shack lose something in translating the manual from GE? I r eally would like to use the system and my phone answering machine at the same time. If you understand the mysterious menu or know how to use an answering machine and a Homeminder at the same time I would appreciate the help. Msg#: 5824 *INK* 08/07/88 11:12:50 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: DOMINICK LEVA (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 5808 (HOMEMINDER) I don't have one of those units, but I'll take a guess at what the selection is supposed to mean. It could be that when an answering machine is present, the Homeminder waits until it senses that the ringing has stopped before it picks up the line. That way it is the answering machine that picks up the phone. Someone who doesn't know how to control the Homeminder wouldn't know it had picked up the phone at the same time, so would only know about the answering machine. You, on the other hand, would be able to ignore the answering machine and deal directly with the Homeminder. Again, this is just a guess. Does anyone else have one of these units who might be able to help here? I doubt Radio Shack did any more to the manual than place its own name on the cover. They were selling it at such give-away prices that it wouldn't pay to do more. Of course, it can't hurt for you to experiment. Perhaps you could coordinate with a friend to call you every few minutes as you change the configuration of the Homeminder/answering machine setup. Msg#: 5832 *INK* 08/07/88 13:50:51 From: RENE NUNEZ To: CURT FRANKLIN (Rcvd) Subj: INK ARTICLES Curt: One of the projects that I would definitely like to see done would be a new upgraded version of the HCS. Ideally this would be a modular version based on the BCC180, with additional I/O boards as required for the specific application. I understand that Ken Davidson has been working on the HCS II software project on his spare time, maybe this could be assign to him as an INK project. Ideally the HCS II would have speech synthesis and recognition in addition to having a very simplistic LAN for sensors input and output (similar to the article on Radio-Electronics August 1988) using RS-485, as I would hate having to run more wires in the attic (South Florida resident) than what I already have for the original HCS. Please continue the good work with INK. RENE. Msg#: 5952 *INK* 08/09/88 19:22:05 From: JEFF JENSEN To: KEN DAVIDSON (Rcvd) Subj: NAME IN PRINT Ken, I just got issue 4 and thought it was a great hoot to see my name in print under the Connectime column. Thanks :-) - - Jeff Msg#: 5981 *INK* 08/10/88 08:15:28 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: JEFF JENSEN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 5952 (NAME IN PRINT) I thought you might like that. Keep posting informative messages and you may see it again. Msg#: 6009 *INK* 08/10/88 18:51:48 From: JEFF JENSEN To: KEN DAVIDSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 5981 (NAME IN PRINT) If you find my comments off the mark, let me know. I've got a thick skin and I'm still learning what fits here and what doesn't. - - Jeff Msg#: 6032 *INK* 08/11/88 08:38:38 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: JEFF JENSEN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 6009 (NAME IN PRINT) I didn't mean to imply anything like that. We're pretty liberal here about what gets posted. If you overstep any bounds, I'll let you know in no uncertain terms. Msg#: 6051 *INK* 08/11/88 13:43:01 From: JEFF JENSEN To: KEN DAVIDSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 6032 (NAME IN PRINT) I appreciate the broad range of topics and liberal oversight. I have, in the past made some suggestions or started topics that didn't go anywhere. As I get to know the crowd better, I can see why they didn't fly. I didn't mean passing credit card numbers or cracker info, but more what appeals to "the guys" and is appropriate for the intents of you, Steve, Jeff and the rest of the "establishement" ;-). - Jeff Msg#: 5959 *INK* 08/09/88 21:16:11 From: LELAND BRYTON To: CIRCUIT CILLAR INK Subj: TEXT TO SPEECH SYNTHESIZER I herd that your ran an article on a Voltrax speech synthesizer some time ago. I am interested in any article, kit or plans that would help me buy what I need to make a natural sounding text to speech synthisizer for my computer. Electronics is my hobby and profetion. than you Leland Bryton Msg#: 5986 *INK* 08/10/88 08:42:50 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: LELAND BRYTON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 5959 (TEXT TO SPEECH SYNTHESIZER) Steve has done a number of projects in BYTE over the years dealing with speech synthesis, but since INK is only on issue number four, it hasn't been around that long. As for BYTE articles, check out Sept. '81, Sept. '82, Oct. '82, and Mar. '84 issues for speech articles (the Sept., Oct. '82 articles use the Votrax chip and a text-to-speech algorithm). Msg#: 6125 *INK* 08/12/88 11:22:36 From: STEVE MCINTYRE To: CURT FRANKLIN (Rcvd) Subj: 8096 Steve, My name is Steve McIntyre. I am an application engineer for Intel and have been fof the past 9 years. My main objectives have been on the 8096 or MCS-96 family of products, but I have done MCS-51 stuff. The 8051 family is growing in leaps and bounds, but then again so is the 8096 family. My point is this. I would like to show you some things that I have put together for a low cost emulator for the 8096. It runs less then $50 and operates with the PC. The host software is PC based and is public domain software on the intel BBS. The monitor that runs in the 8096 is very small (<256 bytes) and the emulator can set breakpoints (15), single line assembly, disassemble, and step through code. It is really quite impressive for such a simple design. I have written several articles for this, but only one was published since last year. Let me know what you think and if you would like to publish the idea in your monthly publication Rgds. SMc Msg#: 6949 *INK* 08/30/88 12:27:06 From: BOB PADDOCK To: STEVE MCINTYRE Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 6125 (8096) Can you shead any light on what exactly, and when the 87C75 will be avilabe? I beleive it is a companyan to the 8031, that includes RAM/EPROM and IO. Msg#: 6162 *INK* 08/12/88 21:37:04 From: ALEXANDER SCHNEIDER To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: THANK YOU I just received the latest Ink today. Thank you for the sonar project, if you remember, I was pushing you a while back on BIX to get this project in Byte, but it's even better in Ink. I have a question on the stepper motors. Are stepper motors with integral circuitry very common? It seems that it would be much easier for somebody to only have to provide a positive, negative, direction, and pulse pins rather than decoding the movement via the chart. Alex Msg#: 6211 *INK* 08/14/88 14:28:42 From: STEVE CIARCIA To: ALEXANDER SCHNEIDER (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 6162 (THANK YOU) I don't know of any stepper motors that contain their own internal driver circuitry. At that point they wouldn't be motors but rather some hybrid motor/module. I suppose that might exist. Glad you liked the project. Considering that December '88 is my last BYTE project, CC INK is where you'll find lots of great projects in the future. The only place! --Steve Msg#: 6265 *INK* 08/15/88 21:58:22 From: ALEXANDER SCHNEIDER To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 6211 (THANK YOU) I'm not sure of the value of this suggestion, but I'll make it anyway. It seems the platform of the sonar sensor seems just about perfect for aiming practically any type of sensor one might have. I have a book lying around on Microwave Communications, and it has a chapter in it on amateur radar. What I was thinking of was putting a Gunnplexer (10.525 GHz self-contained gunn diode oscillator/downconverter) atop the stepper motor and building a sort of microwave TI01, which will send a lower frequency signal to the Gunnplexer to frequency modulate the outgoing beam, then when the modulated beam returns, it will mix with the stable 10.525 GHz signal that exists normally in the resonant cavity and produce an output signal from the mixer output. This of course could be detected and interpreted by the replacement board and sent to the almost unmodified software running on the PC. If we keep all else equal, one could probably get a good 12 miles out of it, though it would not be particularly accurate angularly or as to distance. The setup could, of course, be modified to be more useful (using gears on the stepper motor, increasing the resolution of the electronics, etc.) and one might be able to pick out individual airplanes coming and going from the local airport. Who knows, we might even put in Doppler interpretation! I'd like to hear what you (or anybody else, of course) think of it. Alex Msg#: 6288 *INK* 08/16/88 09:59:55 From: STEVE CIARCIA To: ALEXANDER SCHNEIDER (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 6265 (THANK YOU) Your idea is fine. Now go build one and we'll talk :-) The difference between technical ideas and application reality is called Circuit Cellar INK! --Steve Msg#: 6322 *INK* 08/16/88 15:53:55 From: ALEXANDER SCHNEIDER To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 6288 (THANK YOU) Exactly. But I'm afraid I'll probably never be able to build one. Alex Msg#: 6635 *INK* 08/24/88 02:11:08 From: STEVE SAMPSON To: ALEXANDER SCHNEIDER (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 6265 (THANK YOU) Re: 12 Miles. How much? I have a 200 milliwatt Gunn Oscillator and 1/4 mile is pushing it. It runs about $100.00 per 100 mW. With a Gunnplexor(tm) it comes with a varactor diode that can be frequency modulated. This will give you both velocity and range with a little processing. I have two antenna's for mine. A 17 db gain one and a unknown db gain. The unknown is about 2 feet long though and has a much better range. Too get the kind of range and compatability you want, a pulse type radar is needed. The Gunn oscillators and Gunnplexors are Continuous Wave (CW) devices that process only one target at a time (the largest amplitude return). I'd be interested in a pulse radar modification to the sonar. Since you only need 18 degrees beamwidth to be compatible, how about a low frequency device (49 MHz) with a TV antenna Yagi? The FCC calls this the free band or something?? Course I'm sure pulse modulation may be incompatible with portable phones on that band. Fo - 49 MHz, Pw - 5 usec, BW - 455 KHz, PRT - 1 msec (@ 85 Nautical miles). The long range is so second time around echos don't cause problems. A radar mile (out and back) is 12.36 usec. Msg#: 6819 *INK* 08/27/88 10:55:44 From: ALEXANDER SCHNEIDER To: STEVE SAMPSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 6635 (THANK YOU) If you have no obstacles in the way, the range should be better than 1/4 mile. The problem with lower frequencies, is that they can only detect objects with a size on the order of the wavelength. 10 GHz is about 3 cm, so that should allow for smaller targets. Evidently a radar system with a Gunnplexor is possible, because the author of the book has done it and apparently had it working fine. Do you have an address for Microwave Associates (or wherever you got your Gunnplexor)? Alex Msg#: 7004 *INK* 08/31/88 14:48:03 From: BOB ARMSTRONG To: ALEXANDER SCHNEIDER (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 6819 (THANK YOU) Do you (or anyone else) remember an article in an old RADIO ELECTRONICS that showed how to build an AUDAR (audible detection and ranging) unit? It was tube based, and used a "wobbulator capacitor" from a WWII surplus APN-6(?) altimeter. I'd like to know if anyone else ever built one. Msg#: 7651 *INK* 09/20/88 15:55:32 From: BOB ARMSTRONG To: ALEXANDER SCHNEIDER Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 7535 (THANK YOU) It was late fifties or early sixties. The wobbulator capacitor basicall has a voice coil in it that varies the capacitance when a current is applied to the coil (crude, but effective). This was used to shift the output signal. When the signal echoes were returned, the phase shift was measured. It fascinated me as a young experimenter. I remembered it because I found the wobbulator in a toolbox, with bolts and nuts sticking to the magnetic case.... Msg#: 6175 *INK* 08/12/88 23:54:40 From: JOSEPH FREEMAN To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: ARTICLE IDEAS I would like to see an additional module for the uController programming for the SEPP. I am debating be tween the SEPP and the B&C prom burner but the B&C supports controllers. How difficult would it be to add the functionallity. Msg#: 6212 *INK* 08/14/88 14:31:12 From: STEVE CIARCIA To: JOSEPH FREEMAN (Rcvd) Subj: 8751 PROGRAMMER We've already done it and it will either be available as an ap note or published in one of the next issues of CC INK. Ask Curt Franklin for details. --Steve Msg#: 6262 *INK* 08/15/88 19:20:14 From: JOSEPH FREEMAN To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 6212 (8751 PROGRAMMER) I should have known it was done. ucontroller support was the only thing reall lacking in the SEPP. Msg#: 6254 *INK* 08/15/88 15:36:43 From: JOHN BENNETT To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: WFAX STEVE JUST GOT MY 1ST COPY OF INK. ANYBODY WILLING TO PUBLISH ARTICLES ON HOW TO LAUNCH A 2 LITER BOTTLE IS OK IN MY BOOK. BUT TO THE MAIN PART. P. DODGE FROM MIAMI SHARES A COMMON INTEREST WITH ME. THAT BEING WFAX OFF OF HF RECEIVERS. I REMEMBER AN ARTICLE IN BYTE A FEW YEARS AGO WHERE A GUY USED AN APPLE COMPUTER TO DO THIS MARVELOUS FEAT. I AM SORRY I DONT KNOW THE ISSUE BUT I DO KNOW IT HAD A PICTURE OF MR. SPOCK FROM STAR TREK ON THE COVER (WHAT A STRANGE THING TO REMEMBER). I ALSO HAVE A FEW SCHEMATICS FOR THE INTERFACE FROM THE HF RIG TO THE COMPUTER. IF I CAN BE OF SERVICE TO P. DODGE HAVE HIM CALL ME THANKS ALOT INK IS GREAT JOHN BENNETT 912-356-6195 8:00 4:30 MON - FRI Msg#: 6858 *INK* 08/29/88 02:22:18 From: ROY CLAY To: JOHN BENNETT Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 6254 (WFAX) Both MFJ Enterprises and Advanced Electronic Applications as well as Heathkit have units that will interface your hf receiver to your computer for receiving FAX and RTTY. Amateur radio operatiors have been doing this for years. There are several articles in publications like QST, 73 magazine and Ham Radio Magazine on the subject. Msg#: 7005 *INK* 08/31/88 14:50:48 From: BOB ARMSTRONG To: ROY CLAY Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 6858 (WFAX) AEA also sells the PK-232 (Heathkit version is the HK-232) that will receive WEFAX in addition to RTTY, MORSE, etc. Msg#: 7165 *INK* 09/05/88 15:37:35 From: ROB KELLY To: JOHN BENNETT Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 6254 (WFAX) The article that you are refering to may be the JUNE 1984 Byte p. 146 Apple FAX:Weather maps on a video screen by Keith Sueker. He includes a simple circuit and the program listing. Some other info I have collected QST Magazine: Dec 1986 p. 46 QST Magazine: May 1987 p. 40 Qst Magazine: June 1988 p. 15 - article on building a RTTY modem. This is primarily directed at hams, who can transmit as well as receive I have tried to build a receive only version of this circuit using the XR2211 chip, but have had no luck. I have seen the AEA Pakratt 232 demodulate RTTY and WEFAX. It will also do Morse and other formats. The packet TNC from Kantronics will also do WEFAX. These boxes receive fax and treat it as a RTTY signal WEFAX on the shortwave bands is in a different format than satellite fax. It is sent as audio tones (1500 Hz for black) up to 2300 Hz for white. The RTTY and packet boxes require you to tune 1.7kHz off the freq. so that the tones will go thru their filters. They straddle the center of the band of tones and call everything below the center black and everything above as white. Even though the grey scale is not preserved, you can get a fairly good image. I'm not up on the signal from the satellites, but we should learn a lot more in the next few CCIs. Another good source of info is the radio amateurs handbook. Good luck -- hope this helps <> Msg#: 6443 *INK* 08/18/88 21:00:26 From: TERRY ROSE To: ALL Subj: CIRCUIT CELLAR INK I would like to tell you about how glad I am to be a subscriber of CCI. I love the magazine, it's great! Like several of the other people whose messages I've read, I tell all my "techie" friends about it. Keep up the great work. As an aside, I love the BBS too! Terry :-) Msg#: 6451 *INK* 08/18/88 22:42:32 From: GORDON VANDENBURG To: STEVE MCINTYRE Subj: 8096 STEVE: I AM VERY MUCH INTERESTED IN THE 8096 FAMILY OF PRODUCTS. WHAT IS THE INTEL BBS NUMBER ? HOW DO I OBTAIN FURTHER INFO ? ALSO MICROMINT IS PLANNING A CONTROLLER BASED ON THE 8096. THERE CATALOG SUGGESTS AVAILABILITY -> FALL,88 . THANKS, GORDIE Msg#: 6465 *INK* 08/19/88 10:29:58 From: STEVE CIARCIA To: GORDON VANDENBURG (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 6451 (8096) Actually, Gordon, the Micromint 80C196 controller already exists and has been a production product at Micromint for months. They just haven't told anybody. If you go to an Intel distributor and ask to see THEIR 8096 demo controller board, you can see it. Micromint makes that board for them. Because Micromint has so many new products lately, however, they decided to wait til fall '88 before putting it in the catalog. If you have an immediate application and don't mind limited paperwork (best to get a copy of Intel's), the Micromint board is available. Call John in sales and discuss it (you'll confuse the hell out of him that you even know about this product). The board is BCC bus compatible and I think it was to be called the BCC96. --Steve Msg#: 6494 *INK* 08/20/88 09:20:19 From: GORDON VANDENBURG To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 6465 (8096) THANK, STEVE. I'LL CHECK INTO IT IMEDIATELY. Msg#: 6471 *INK* 08/19/88 14:13:04 From: TOM CURDA To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: TRADE SHOWS Steve: I tried sending this message once before, but the system timed out on me b/4 I could save it. Anyway, I was reading some old messages from last April, and you indicated interest in ham-fests, trade shows, etc, for spreading the word on INK. Here in Chicago, there is a major ham-fest every Feb. or so. If your interested, I can try to find out more about it. Also, the company I work for exhibits at several of the major trade shows around the country, such as ISA, Control Expo, Autofact, etc. One of my job responsibilities is to coordinate the setup and running of our exibits. If you're interested, I could have INK subscription cards and info on a table in our booth at these shows. It would have to be on an unofficial basis, ie: no indication of any relationship between my company and INK, but it certainly would help get more exposure for INK. I'm also going to MidCon in Dallas on 8/29, not to exhibit, but just to observe. If you think it would be worth-while, I could take along some INK info to hand out while I'm there. I'm going to be out of town for the next couple of days, so I'll check back Tues 8/22 to read your response. Regards, Tom Msg#: 6539 *INK* 08/22/88 10:02:32 From: STEVE CIARCIA To: TOM CURDA (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 6471 (TRADE SHOWS) Tom, if you feel that strongly about INK and it won't get you in a lot of trouble, we'd appreciate any exposure that further's the cause. We are building a technical audience from the ashes of the "clone and toaster wars" and many deserving readers don't know we are there yet. Regarding promotion material and subscription cards, give a shout to Curt Franklin and he'll set you up. --Steve Msg#: 6613 *INK* 08/23/88 14:37:50 From: TOM CURDA To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 6539 (TRADE SHOWS) Yes, I do feel quite strongly about this. Ive followed your collum in Byte since day one (I still have all the back issues), and now eagerly await each issue of INK. I don't think I have the talent to write for INK, or do a design of the caliber necessary for publication, so I feel this is how I can contribute to the cause, and also repay for all the use and help this BBS has been to me. By the way, I'm building the bottle rocket launcher right now, with the hope for a first flight on Labor Day. Maybe a more advanced design could be incorporated into a "Strategic Home Defense Initiative"? :-) Anyway, thanks for your response, and continued good luck with INK. Regards, Tom Msg#: 6505 *INK* 08/21/88 03:52:48 From: PETER CHRISTENSEN To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: RS-232 I was wondering what's invloved in making an RS-232 breakout box? From what I've seen in catalogs there doesnt seem to be 200.00 plus in parts in a breakout box. Maybe I'm not looking at it from the right direction, If that's the case please put some light on the subject. I know there is no such thing as a standard RS-232, just from what I've been around computers at work. Maybe this be something for a furture addittion of Circuit Cellar INK ; which I subscribe to already (hope, hope--maybe-please) along with an up date on RS-232 in general. Thanks for information P. Christensen Msg#: 6537 *INK* 08/22/88 08:55:11 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: PETER CHRISTENSEN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 6505 (RS-232) Steve did a breakout box in the April 1983 issue of BYTE. In looking up the article, it still contains lots of good information and useful diagrams. I think a new article would be mostly a rehash. Msg#: 6752 *INK* 08/26/88 00:53:43 From: PETER CHRISTENSEN To: KEN DAVIDSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 6537 (RS-232) Thanks for the informationI had not been a subscriber to byte that long ago wish I had of been. I'll look up the article at library. . thanks . P. Christensen Msg#: 6507 *INK* 08/21/88 05:24:03 From: JASON SOLOFF To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: 8031 PROGRAMMING . STEVE . . I, AS YOU KNOW, AM WORKING ON A ROBOTICS PROJECT FOR INK, AND HAVE RUN INTO A SERIOUS GLITCH. I CAN'T FIND A SERIAL EPROM PROGRAMMER THAT WON'T KILL THE DILITHIUM CRYSTALS IN COST (THE PROGRAMMERS MIGHT BE GREAT, BUT I STILL GOTTA BUY THE CHIPS!). ANYHOW, DO YOU HAVE ANY SUGESSTIONS ON HOW TO GET A PROGRAMMER LOW COST? AND WHERE CAN I FIND A SMALL LCD DISPLAY LIKE THE ONE YOU FEATURED, CHEAP? ARMY SURPLUS? NOPE. . . YOUR SUGGESTIONS ARE NEEDED . . JASON SOLOFF . A.K.A. STEVEN W. FALKEN . (STANDARD BBS ALIAS) Msg#: 6521 *INK* 08/22/88 05:11:49 From: STEVE HARRIS To: TOM CURDA (Rcvd) Subj: MIDCON Tom, I am interested to going to trade shows that have companys that market board level devices, ic's etc. I read your message to Steve C. about yourself going to Midcon. I would appreciate any information you could give me on Midcon or any other show that would be very technical. Thank you for your time and experience. Steve Harris Msg#: 6610 *INK* 08/23/88 13:44:56 From: CRAIG TRADER To: ALL Subj: LASER PROJECT I saw the articles on stepper motors in CCI #4 & got a bright(!) idea for a burgler defense. Take a HeNe laser, mount it in a box with multiple appertures in an arc in front of the laser. Using a series of micro- controlled stepper motors with mirrors mounted on them, you can swing the laser beam in a raster scanning pattern without much trouble. When an intruder is detected at a door or window, direct the laser at said window or door, using the raster scan pattern. If the burgler succeeds in opening the door/window he'll see the light. The only problem is that I'm sure it's indefensible in a court of law. Definately more than necessary force, but wouldn't it be nice? I'd like to see any other laser projects you come up with in a future issue of INK. Msg#: 6624 *INK* 08/23/88 21:27:41 From: TERRY ROSE To: CRAIG TRADER Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 6610 (LASER PROJECT) Well the laser sounds nice and "bright". But I prefer an older idea in home defense (older being about a million or so years...). How about lobbing something noxious at the burglar but non-fatal ( like butyric acid, have you ever smelled that stuff! ). After all have you ever seen a skunk in court for frying a burglar? It's even safe for the kids, that is if you don't have a sense of smell. Perhaps one day I'll relate how I have such an intimate aquaitance with the horrid stuff......... Msg#: 6660 *INK* 08/24/88 10:25:01 From: STEVE CIARCIA To: CRAIG TRADER Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 6610 (LASER PROJECT) Moving the mirrors to create a raster scan laser is a bigger project than you might think. There are a bunch of previous messages around here where this has been discussed in detail. We'd like such a project for INK and are working on it. For the short term we haven't been sleeping. In CC INK issue #5 Ken and I start describing ROVER, our Remotely Controlled Video-based Electronic Reconnaissance system. In the article you'll note a nice picture of the ROVER motorized pan, tilt, and zoom camera mount. The thing that looks like a gun sight on the top of the camera is a laser! Just point and shoot :-) --Steve Msg#: 6724 *INK* 08/25/88 16:03:55 From: BOB ARMSTRONG To: TERRY ROSE (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 6624 (LASER PROJECT) Perhaps you put it in an elevator at some time in the past??? (no personal experience with it, of course.....). Msg#: 6679 *INK* 08/24/88 20:03:58 From: RICHARD ANDREWS To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: 8031 DDT . I have been reading the articles on the 8031 DDT unit and I would like add my name to the list of those that would like to see this available in PC from CCI. Also it would be great if the example 8031 circuit (figure 2 from one of the articles) could be put into PC and made available. The I/O ports could be brought out to some kind of connector and the IC's socketed so that just those that are needed could be installed. This would be really handy as a development environment. Just a suggestion. Msg#: 6708 *INK* 08/25/88 09:57:30 From: STEVE CIARCIA To: RICHARD ANDREWS (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 6679 (8031 DDT) Keep in touch with Curt here, there will be more about the DDT-51 in Cc INK. Regarding putting the the example 8031 circuit together on a PC board, look at some of the other projects. Simply take the CCSEP (serial EPROM programmer or the BCC52 and use an 8031 instead of the 8052 processor and you have about the equivalent circuit: processor, serial and parallel I/O, RAM, and EPROM. Even the recent IC tester would be a suitable candidate up to the parallel ports. All are available as kits now. --Steve Msg#: 6680 *INK* 08/24/88 20:08:17 From: RICHARD ANDREWS To: ALL Subj: ELECTRONIC COMPASS . In past messages I have noticed much discussion regarding an electronic compass. The 1989 Radio Shack catalog lists just such a device. It's part number 63-641 and is supposed to be available Sept 30, 1988. The description does not mention that any of the signals are brought to the outside, but that never stopped anybody. The output is a graphic display and the unit is meant to be used in a car. FYI. Msg#: 6714 *INK* 08/25/88 12:16:05 From: JIM GAINSLEY To: CURT FRANKLIN (Rcvd) Subj: SAMPLE Curt, we'd like to see a sample copy of the magazine, Ken said you were the one to ask. Jim Gainsley Renco Corporation 116 Third Ave. N. Minneapolis, MN 55401 Tel: 612 338 6124 Msg#: 6721 *INK* 08/25/88 15:56:14 From: CURT FRANKLIN To: JIM GAINSLEY (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 6714 (SAMPLE) I'll get one out to you ASAP. If anyone else would like to get a copy of the magazine for potential advertising purposes, get in touch with Dan Rodrigues at 203/875-2751. If you're interested in becoming a CC INK author, you can call me at the number above or drop me a line here on the BBS and I'll get some information to you. Curt Franklin Msg#: 6726 *INK* 08/25/88 16:10:35 From: BOB ARMSTRONG To: CURT FRANKLIN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 6721 (SAMPLE) I'm interested in writing for CCI and would like more information. My address is: 408 Patrick Lane Herndon, VA 22070 Thanks..... Msg#: 6792 *INK* 08/26/88 13:35:44 From: CURT FRANKLIN To: BOB ARMSTRONG (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 6726 (SAMPLE) Bob, I'll get a copy of our authors guide out to you as soon as I can. . Curt Franklin Msg#: 6744 *INK* 08/25/88 20:10:24 From: TERRY ROSE To: BOB ARMSTRONG (Rcvd) Subj: STINK Actually it was under a throw rug at a particularly obnoxious retail store. After the fact I don't think they really deserved it. Nobody deserves that stuff! Did you say you've smelled it? (and lived!) ..............................Terry :-) Msg#: 6997 *INK* 08/31/88 14:20:13 From: BOB ARMSTRONG To: TERRY ROSE (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 6744 (STINK) Yes, I seem to recall a certain college prank in which we (er, someone) placed the stuff in an elevator. Not nice, and I regretted the act as it spilled on my clothes. I threw them away. Msg#: 6762 *INK* 08/26/88 06:21:31 From: DALE NASSAR To: CURT FRANKLIN (Rcvd) Subj: WRITING FOR CCI Curt, I am interested in writing for Ink. Dale Nassar 109 Camille St. Amite, La. 70422 (504) 748-7090 I would like to get in touch with you for details, Thanks. --Dale Msg#: 6791 *INK* 08/26/88 13:29:46 From: CURT FRANKLIN To: DALE NASSAR (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 6762 (WRITING FOR CCI) I'll get an author's guide out to you as soon as possible. Curt Msg#: 6809 *INK* 08/26/88 23:43:44 From: THOMAS MAYFIELD To: ALL Subj: STEPPERS A special thanks to Steve, Ed, Tim and Dennis for their fine articles on stepper motors and drives. > Additional reading... See the August issue of PCIM Magazine for and article on new Smartpower IC's, specifically designed for bilevel current control of steppers. > I have a small quantity of new stepping motors that may be of interest to fellow CCI readers. The motors are rated at 5 kilogram-cm holding torque, 12 volt/.6 amp, 1.8 Deg (Full step), 6 lead, greater than 4000 steps per second, 2.25"x2.25"x2.25" with 1/4" shaft, SKC model #STH-55D302. Great motors for projects that require a little more muscle. > I would be willing to share these with Ink Enthusiast at my cost of $35.00 each. I will pay postage and include a schematic of the driver I've used with this particular motor, plus a brief description of series resistance type drivers that provide a simple way of substantially increasing power at higher speeds. > I do not intend to make a profit on these, the new low quantity pricing is over $75 each. > Contact: Thomas Mayfield, 1046 S.E. Haig, Portland, Oregon 97202. > P.S..... I fully agree with Mr. Cherry's comments about CCI in message #6132. (-: Msg#: 6821 *INK* 08/27/88 13:34:00 From: STEVE SAMPSON To: ALEXANDER SCHNEIDER (Rcvd) Subj: RADAR I bought a used radar (police CW) that contained a 65 mw unit and upgraded it to a 200 mw unit from Advanced Receiver Research, Box 1242, Burlington CT 06013, 203-582-9409. The 200 mw unit is an Oscillator. It does not contain a varactor (Gunnplexers do). I think they were originally intended to jam police radars (oh boy...). I may be making several assumptions about CW radar based on old technology. I understand the principles involved in FM CW but I assumed the range would be about the same as what I'm experiancing now. What is the name of your book and where can I get a copy? By the way, I don't think M/A sells in single quantities. ARR is a nice bunch though. They found a circulator for me where normally I'd have to buy a Gunnplexer with it. Msg#: 6844 *INK* 08/28/88 12:11:25 From: ALEXANDER SCHNEIDER To: STEVE SAMPSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 6821 (RADAR) Are the ARR oscillators available in 24 GHz and other higher frequencies? The Radio Amateur's Microwave Communications Handbook by Dave Ingram K4TWJ has a chapter on amateur radar using Gunnplexors. It's published by Tab Books Inc. in Blue Ridge Summit, Pa. 17214. Where did you find the used radar? What does ARR sell besides oscillators? Alex Msg#: 6847 *INK* 08/28/88 13:39:08 From: STEVE SAMPSON To: ALEXANDER SCHNEIDER (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 6844 (RADAR) ARR sells Gunnplexers, low noise pre-amps, and Microwave comm systems. They are Amateur radio oriented as well as comercial. I found my radar from a guy in Virginia who had a friend who bought them from the Virginia state highway patrol (WA4VZQ, Barry Ornitz). I think he said that he sold them all though. Other sources advertize in Radio-Electronics (see ad for AIS Satelite Inc in the SEP issue on page 27 middle). Yes, ARR sells X and K band units. I think they sell the complete line of M/A stuff for X and K band. I'll see if I can find the book your talking about, thanks. Msg#: 6893 *INK* 08/29/88 15:00:41 From: ALEXANDER SCHNEIDER To: STEVE SAMPSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 6847 (RADAR) Thanks for the information. Alex Msg#: 6822 *INK* 08/27/88 14:14:04 From: STEVE SAMPSON To: ALEXANDER SCHNEIDER (Rcvd) Subj: RADAR I think I spelled it wrong, the correct spelling is Gunnplexer (if you care). Take 48 MHz for example and its wavelength is 6.25 meters. An F-16 is about 9 x 14 meters, and a 727 is about 40 x 45 meters. So it's not getting too small yet. The azimuth resolution is not very acceptable though. I used to work on a radar that operated at about 400 Mhz. It was mounted on a 5 story concrete building and the antenna was about 3 stories wide. That's the trouble with low frequency when you want azimuth resolution. Microwave antennas are much nicer. Maybe through software the target returns could be centroided and smoothed out. Just some rambling on the idea. Msg#: 6855 *INK* 08/28/88 23:51:54 From: NORM DYE To: ALL Subj: WEATHER CENTER Does anyone know how to get in contact with Mark Voorhees? I live here in phoenix, and would like to talk with him. In case someone talks with him, or Mark read this, my work number is (602) 392-2484 and home phone is 897-9547. Thanks, Norm Dye... Msg#: 6870 *INK* 08/29/88 09:47:40 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: NORM DYE (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 6855 (WEATHER CENTER) Mark checks in here at least once a week, so he will probably see your message. A better way to make sure he sees your message is to address it to him directly. That way he'll be alerted to it when he calls. Msg#: 6919 *INK* 08/30/88 03:05:26 From: NORM DYE To: KEN DAVIDSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 6870 (WEATHER CENTER) Ok, thanks for the reply. I think i'll drop him a postcard as well since it should get there the next day. Msg#: 6910 *INK* 08/29/88 22:36:26 From: CRAIG DEWICK To: ALL Subj: HELLO FROM AUSTRALIA Hello everyone... As you might have guessed , I am ringing all the way from Australia... Yes!!! i am really from australia... And my phone bill is increasing by about US$1.20 a minute.... I recently subscribed to INK, and i love it. As i am a university student doing electrical engineering, INK is exactly the sort of publication I have been after for years. Also, I am sorry to hear that Steve Ciarcia will no longer be writing for Byte after December.... I ALWAYS read his articles in Byte, and find his sense of humour very funny indeed... Anyway, i will only be able to ring here about once a month (or my phone bill will be astronomical!!!!!). I appreciate any help regarding info on other INK subscribers that might live over here in Australia... I would like to get in touch with them... Oh well.. i will go and continue looking around this BBS... It seems really good so far. C ya later.... Craig. Reply has been deleted Msg#: 6936 *INK* 08/30/88 09:04:15 From: MICHAEL POLAK To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: CCI Steve, I just received my back issues of CCI. They are GREAT! Sorry to hear about the problems with BYTE. I, like a lot of others, subscribed to the magazine just to read your articles. Best wishes on this project. I am really looking forward to future issues. Msg#: 6941 *INK* 08/30/88 10:26:56 From: JOHN ZIMA To: MARK VOORHEES (Rcvd) Subj: WEATHER3.ARC I downloaded weather2.arc but the updated version of weather.exe wasn't included as indicated by readme2.wx. I couldn't locate weather3.arc in the file areas. Am I in error? I tried the old exe file with the radar data from weatherbank and got errors with F9, F3, and F4 with "illegal function calls in module ACRDSP". Maybe that was the bug you mentioned. Your suggestion on how to change the com port and baud rate works fine, just operator error on my part!! Thanks JFZ Msg#: 6957 *INK* 08/30/88 16:37:41 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: JOHN ZIMA (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 6941 (WEATHER3.ARC) I'm holding off on making WEATHER3 available until we come up with a better way to update these files. It starts getting ridiculous when you have multiple files on-line, each containing different combinations of slightly different versions of programs. Let me think about this one for a short while. Msg#: 6964 *INK* 08/30/88 22:02:17 From: JAMES RONALD To: ANYONE INTERESTED Subj: PROJECTS I just finished the Stepping out article in issue 4 and I would like to build this simple robot arm. However I am a software type and I am sure I can handle the electronics but I do not have any of the tools or talent to do the metal work. I have tried before and have wasted a lot of time and money. So what I am asking is, is their a service out there that will do the metal work for people like myself? Maybe some retired machinist or somthing. I am very much into Robotics and have built one of my own, much of it barrowed from Steven Sarnss' RE-Robot. However mine looks better and my software is much better. I also added an old apricot computer to do speech recognition and supervise the OEM188. I would very much like to see an article/project/kit on speech recognition. Msg#: 6982 *INK* 08/31/88 09:10:21 From: CURT FRANKLIN To: JAMES RONALD (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 6964 (PROJECTS) I'm glad you liked the article. While we aren't planning to become a robotics-only magazine, I'm sure that there will be more robotics projects down the line. You might check the yellow pages in you area to see if there are private machine shops that would take on a small project like this. Another possibility might be the local industrial trade school. .Yours is not the first request we've had for information on speech recognition, so I guess I should go out and find articles. If anyone here has done a good project on speech recognition, or if you know someone who has, drop me a line. Remember, INK is a magazine that is written by its readers, so I depend on everyone out there for article ideas and actual articles. Keep 'em coming! .Curt Franklin Msg#: 7121 *INK* 09/03/88 08:48:00 From: RICK HAUGEN To: CURT FRANKLIN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 6982 (PROJECTS) Kurzwell (The genius behind a plethoria of great inventions) has several techinical papers published on his ideas behind speach recognition. His basic approach is totally different than anybodys. His incorporats the 64 phonims that compose the entire english language, makes some assumptions about the speakes dialic, and away he goes. His technique shows fantastic promise towards the development of a truly speaker independent form of speach recognition. Msg#: 7159 *INK* 09/05/88 12:03:55 From: GARY WHITE To: JAMES RONALD (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 6964 (PROJECTS) Are there any chipsets which implement these techniques? I am in the process of building a robot, and am in search of two chipsets. One to do text to speech, and one to do speech to text. I'm willing to sacrifice a little on "state of the art" for cost. Any help would be appreciated. Gary Msg#: 7192 *INK* 09/06/88 11:12:33 From: RON WILSON To: JAMES RONALD (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 6964 (PROJECTS) There is a text-to-speach chip set sold by Radio Shack - I've never tried it, but some one on this BBS said he built one. As for your troubles with metal working: Have you ever had access to a proper metal working/machine shop? I did - a long time ago - access to the full assortment of "proper" tools enabled me to do even slightly complex work - on my own, even the simplest of metal working tasks is virtually impossible - the tools (AND some instruction) do make a major difference. Also, I would be interested in seeing pictures/ drawings of you robot. - Ron Msg#: 7307 *INK* 09/08/88 23:47:32 From: JAMES RONALD To: GARY WHITE (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 7159 (PROJECTS) Yes, there is a chip set to do the speech synthesis and to do the text to speech conversions. Radio shack sells the chips set and there are others to. I have a speech unit that uses this chip set the quality is not so bad. I also use the speech.com program for the IBM although I had to make changes to it to make it work on a machine with a clock speed > 4.77 If you want a copy I will up load it. Msg#: 7308 *INK* 09/08/88 23:52:47 From: JAMES RONALD To: RON WILSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 7192 (PROJECTS) Yes, I have done some work with large power tool while in high school and college, and yes it is alot easier. I have also built the speech synthesis using the chip set from radio shack, It sound OK I guess. Msg#: 7514 *INK* 09/16/88 16:22:19 From: RICHARD ANDREWS To: RICK HAUGEN Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 7121 (PROJECTS) . The Radio Shack catalog for '89 lists a speaker independent speech recognition chip (part # 276-1308, page 116). It claims to be able to recognize five motion commands and two on/off or yes/no commands. Msg#: 6973 *INK* 08/31/88 08:04:27 From: BOB PADDOCK To: CURT FRANKLIN (Rcvd) Subj: AUTHOR GUIDE? Is there any kind of Author's Guide avaialbe for writting for Ink? I have a copule of ideas that I hope to get to some day...... Msg#: 6980 *INK* 08/31/88 09:02:34 From: CURT FRANKLIN To: BOB PADDOCK (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 6973 (AUTHOR GUIDE?) .Bob - There's an on-line version of the author's guide posted in the Information on Circuit Cellar INK section of this BBS. Take a look there, and if you have any questions feel free to ask. . Curt Franklin Msg#: 7003 *INK* 08/31/88 14:47:27 From: JOHN MEALEY To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: INK CONFERENCE Dear Mr. Ciarcia, Wouldn't a conference be the greatest excuse to get a coupla thousand people up to Vernon for the Weekend? The drive from Mclean is not bad. I could learn a few things, buy a few things, and probably write it all off to boot. 'later John Mealey (P.S. no need to reply :-).) Msg#: 7040 *INK* 09/01/88 13:31:13 From: STEVE CIARCIA To: JOHN MEALEY (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 7003 (INK CONFERENCE) Many people have suggested that we have some get together. The earliest we could plan something would be spring time. We would also be able to access the full impact of not being in BYTE anymore (their loss, our gain). --Steve Msg#: 7110 *INK* 09/02/88 22:58:05 From: TERRY ROSE To: JOHN MEALEY Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 7003 (INK CONFERENCE) I like your idea of a conference. Telecommunication is great,but face to face communication has its advantages too. Terry:-) P.S. Can Vernon handle the that many techies at once? There seems to be quite a few of us!!!!!!!!! ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Msg#: 7040 *INK* 09/01/88 13:31:13 From: STEVE CIARCIA To: JOHN MEALEY (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 7003 (INK CONFERENCE) Many people have suggested that we have some get together. The earliest we could plan something would be spring time. We would also be able to access the full impact of not being in BYTE anymore (their loss, our gain). --Steve Msg#: 7110 *INK* 09/02/88 22:58:05 From: TERRY ROSE To: JOHN MEALEY Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 7003 (INK CONFERENCE) I like your idea of a conference. Telecommunication is great,but face to face communication has its advantages too. Terry:-) P.S. Can Vernon handle the that many techies at once? There seems to be quite a few of us!!!!!!!!! Msg#: 7043 *INK* 09/01/88 15:48:42 From: DUSTIN CLAMPITT To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 5844 (A QUESTION OF INK) Steve: Thanks for the reply. Sorry to hear about BYTE not re- negotiating, I guess they didn't realize they would lose my sub- scription monies by such a move. :-) They lose my bucks, you get'em! Back to the subject of a portable terminal -- Spending the $350.00 for the Micromint terminal boards or even the Psion handheld unit seems out of the question. A package using the MM boards would be too bulky and is simply overkill since I want an LCD display. The Psion is too small (and also too expensive to be dragging it around where I will be taking it). With the surplus of various keyboards available and the low cost of LCD displays I though it would be great to have what would be essen- tially a complete terminal in a keyboard enclosure. It would have a LCD display and simple dip switch settings for baud, character framing, etc. It needn't do any emulation, it needn't beep, it wouldn't do any more than transmit standard ascii via RS-232 and display keystrokes echoed. Obviously, it could never be used to edit files, play games or even display large amounts of data. But it could be easily battery powered, it would have a full-size keyboard instead of some dinky keypad and it should/would be CHEAP! What am I going to with such a thing? Fun things, silly things. I envision certain applications where it would be used as a console device for simple, remote, 12-volt powered process control. A full sized term- inal is out of the question. Anyway, once the summer is over I want to build your 8051 development system. I guess I've chosen my first project. Thanks again, Dustin Clampitt Msg#: 7495 *INK* 09/16/88 08:02:50 From: TONI CORTEZ To: DUSTIN CLAMPITT Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 5833 (A QUESTION OF INK) You have my vote for the LCD battery operated terminal. Msg#: 8273 *INK* 10/09/88 12:08:32 From: WILLIAM GILES To: CURT FRANKLIN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 5397 (A QUESTION OF INK) Regarding articles on kit building, I have built many projects from kits primarily Heath and CCI. I am not interested in things along the line of "Building the Heathkit Something-or-other". I would be interested in articles that tell how to take a commercially available kit and modify it to do something else or one that shows how it works. I subscribed to the Heathkit "Kit Builders Journal" for a while in the hope that it might contain some inside info from Heath. Sadly, it never appeared to have much in the way of technical articles. Short pieces on kits that are available from obscure manufacturers would be valuable (such as the PT-68K from Peripheral technology). I will always be interested in projects that offer some form of kit for those of us that do not have the time or equipment to build from scratch. . . Projects that I would like to see include: . D/A for the BCC Bus . Motion Control - Stepper and Servo Motors . Optical Encoders - Feedback for Motion Control . Software for Data Aquisition and Control . (Z-Transforms boggle my mind) . . How to use RS-422/485 (SN75176 Transceiver) . The logic analyzer article (with parts sources) . Applications ideas (such as ROVER) . I enjoy reading INK and realize that not every article will interest me. I hope that INK will get ads from companies that can furnish the hard to find parts. I think that this type of advertising wiil help ensure the long term survival of INK. . I subscribed to INK from the first issue and renewal time is coming up. Will a renewal notice be sent or should I just send my own? . Bill Msg#: 7121 *INK* 09/03/88 08:48:00 From: RICK HAUGEN To: CURT FRANKLIN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 6982 (PROJECTS) Kurzwell (The genius behind a plethoria of great inventions) has several techinical papers published on his ideas behind speach recognition. His basic approach is totally different than anybodys. His incorporats the 64 phonims that compose the entire english language, makes some assumptions about the speakes dialic, and away he goes. His technique shows fantastic promise towards the development of a truly speaker independent form of speach recognition. Msg#: 7159 *INK* 09/05/88 12:03:55 From: GARY WHITE To: JAMES RONALD (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 6964 (PROJECTS) Are there any chipsets which implement these techniques? I am in the process of building a robot, and am in search of two chipsets. One to do text to speech, and one to do speech to text. I'm willing to sacrifice a little on "state of the art" for cost. Any help would be appreciated. Gary Msg#: 7192 *INK* 09/06/88 11:12:33 From: RON WILSON To: JAMES RONALD (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 6964 (PROJECTS) There is a text-to-speach chip set sold by Radio Shack - I've never tried it, but some one on this BBS said he built one. As for your troubles with metal working: Have you ever had access to a proper metal working/machine shop? I did - a long time ago - access to the full assortment of "proper" tools enabled me to do even slightly complex work - on my own, even the simplest of metal working tasks is virtually impossible - the tools (AND some instruction) do make a major difference. Also, I would be interested in seeing pictures/ drawings of you robot. - Ron Msg#: 7307 *INK* 09/08/88 23:47:32 From: JAMES RONALD To: GARY WHITE (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 7159 (PROJECTS) Yes, there is a chip set to do the speech synthesis and to do the text to speech conversions. Radio shack sells the chips set and there are others to. I have a speech unit that uses this chip set the quality is not so bad. I also use the speech.com program for the IBM although I had to make changes to it to make it work on a machine with a clock speed > 4.77 If you want a copy I will up load it. Msg#: 7308 *INK* 09/08/88 23:52:47 From: JAMES RONALD To: RON WILSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 7192 (PROJECTS) Yes, I have done some work with large power tool while in high school and college, and yes it is alot easier. I have also built the speech synthesis using the chip set from radio shack, It sound OK I guess. Msg#: 7514 *INK* 09/16/88 16:22:19 From: RICHARD ANDREWS To: RICK HAUGEN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 7121 (PROJECTS) . The Radio Shack catalog for '89 lists a speaker independent speech recognition chip (part # 276-1308, page 116). It claims to be able to recognize five motion commands and two on/off or yes/no commands. Msg#: 8080 *INK* 10/05/88 14:36:34 From: RICK HAUGEN To: RICHARD ANDREWS (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 7514 (PROJECTS) Sorry , I don't get the radio shack catalog but the technology is sufficiently advance that what you say sounds likely to be true. Msg#: 7128 *INK* 09/03/88 19:42:25 From: STEVE SAMPSON To: BOB PADDOCK (Rcvd) Subj: CVSD Bob, you gave me a pointer in late July about using a 55564/5512 CVSD chip from Harris. Do you have a phone number for them? Or maybe could send a copy of the Data Sheet. Thanks, S. Sampson, 301 S. Patterson Dr., Moore OK, 73160. Msg#: 7197 *INK* 09/06/88 12:20:43 From: BOB PADDOCK To: STEVE SAMPSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 7128 (CVSD) Try Harris Semiconductor PO Box 1239 Melboume, FL 32901 (707) 724-3576 / FAX:407 724 9264 (Sence for some reason they don't print thier address and phone number on thier own data book, I just pick a location a random, the people above may refer you to a differant location.) Msg#: 7207 *INK* 09/06/88 19:02:59 From: STEVE SAMPSON To: BOB PADDOCK (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 7197 (CVSD) Thanks for the info. I've been looking at a radio that uses a CVSD chip and it appears to be rather neat. Especially for self clocking. I'd like to breadboard one and see how it plays. Msg#: 7230 *INK* 09/07/88 07:42:43 From: BOB PADDOCK To: STEVE SAMPSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 7207 (CVSD) Tell me about the radio? Msg#: 7254 *INK* 09/07/88 16:44:36 From: STEVE SAMPSON To: BOB PADDOCK (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 7230 (CVSD) It's a Motorola Securenet repeater. Runs secure or clear audio. The clear is sampled at 12 KHz by the CVSD chip resulting in digital, which is then encrypted using a hybrid chip (DES I suspect). This then directly modulates the exciter. +/- 4KHz deviation it says. Audio bandpass is 300 Hz to 3000 Hz. Looks pretty simple. Sounds like static. Msg#: 7137 *INK* 09/04/88 00:33:50 From: WALTER MACARTHUR To: ALL Subj: IR THERMOMETER I would like to find plans for the contruction of a passive infra-red thermometer. It would be extremely useful in my refrigeration work. I can buy one for 500.00 but that is a bit steep for me. It requires a range of -50 F. to +250 F.( or higher). Msg#: 7162 *INK* 09/05/88 14:47:24 From: JOHN BARTON To: TERRY ROSE Subj: STINK I was intrigued by your suggestion of using an noxious substance to repell burglars. I have a problem with derelicts near my business (in the parking lot of a particularly obnoxious party store). These guys have shelves installed on the fence, burn a fire in the trash can all day long, play their ghetto blasters, sell drugs, consider the back corner of the parking lot to be a public latrine and stab each other (the only thing they do which has some benefit to the neighborhood). The police do little about it. The owner of the party store does not discourage his "tenants" since they purchase numerous half-pints of their "elixir of life" from him regularly. My only hope is to reduce the desirability of the location for them; your butyric acid (or something similar) sounds like it may be just the item to do that. What was your source for it -- cooked it up in a chem lab -- or is it available commercially? Any help would be appreciated. . Or maybe you have some other ideas on making the local environment unlivable for my "neighbors"? ;-) I would prefer a more interesting technological solution, but I'll take anything that will work. Maybe an IR sensor could detect their presence and begin dispensing the stuff after a 5 or 10 minute delay. Msg#: 7164 *INK* 09/05/88 15:31:59 From: STEVE SAMPSON To: JOHN BARTON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 7162 (STINK) Thought of moving? You need to pack up and find a country area. You'll add years to your life. I thought I saw an article in Parade magazine on how the Vietnamese got rid of their derelicts. Seems it was mostly community action. Heck if you ain't got a community, it's time to leave. Let the drunks have it. Keep the property though, in ten years the area will fall down until the investors move in, then sell. You could open an archery section and use the derelicts for targets?? !! ... Msg#: 7199 *INK* 09/06/88 12:25:07 From: BOB PADDOCK To: JOHN BARTON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 7162 (STINK) Try to dig up a copy of "The Poor Man's James Bond" by Kurt Saxxton [Spelling?], it has the info you are looking for. It is amazing the things you can do with Sana-Flush.......... Msg#: 7330 *INK* 09/09/88 16:47:44 From: RICHARD ANDREWS To: JOHN BARTON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 7162 (STINK) . There is also a liquid organic compound with a name something like hexanoic acid. I beleive that it is the compound that makes goats smell like goats only very concentrated. Msg#: 7520 *INK* 09/16/88 19:23:49 From: JOHN BARTON To: STEVE SAMPSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 7164 (STINK) I have too much comitted in our family business to move. It is a desirable thought, though. I have visited several places far more desirable than downtown Detroit. But all of our assets and business connections are in this area. Interested in buying us out? Msg#: 7521 *INK* 09/16/88 19:24:47 From: JOHN BARTON To: BOB PADDOCK (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 7199 (STINK) Thanks. I'll look for it. I prefer subtle and "natural" approaches like this. Msg#: 7522 *INK* 09/16/88 19:25:20 From: JOHN BARTON To: RICHARD ANDREWS (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 7330 (STINK) Sounds like another good alternative. Thanks. Msg#: 7578 *INK* 09/19/88 08:13:06 From: BOB PADDOCK To: JOHN BARTON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 7521 (STINK) If you want subtle, why not try an Ultrasonic Pain Field Generator, simmalar to what is used for riet/croud controll in France. A hi power Pezo speaker and a 30-50 KHz power oscolator might be worth looking into. Msg#: 7674 *INK* 09/20/88 21:39:38 From: JOHN BARTON To: BOB PADDOCK (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 7578 (STINK) It sounds interesting, but how traceable is the item. If someone were to start looking for the source of the pain, would they be able to find it? The beauty of the skunk smell is that it could logically be attributed to local critters (yes, even in Detroit). But maybe your Ultrasonic Pain Field Generator would have its uses also in the small arsenal which I would like to assemble. Can you point me in a direction for more information? I checked on the Poor Man's James Bond at a book store. It lists for $79.95, but is still in print (according to their CD-ROM listing). I think I'll check it out in a library if I can find it in one. Thanks. Msg#: 7687 *INK* 09/21/88 07:52:32 From: BOB PADDOCK To: JOHN BARTON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 7674 (STINK) I'd change book stores, I got my JB book for about $20 from a mail order place. You won't find it in a library. "How To Get Any Thing On Any Budy" by Lee Lapain (Spelling?) had so good info on Pain feild devices, so does "The Big Brother Game" by French. Look in the back of Radio&Electronics for an add from Amazing Devices, ask for a catalog from them. As far as being untracable, sence vary few people (Might upset most animals tho) can hear such high frequencys you should be perty safe, but of cource you have to figure out where to put the thing. Stink is much easyer to hide. Msg#: 7763 *INK* 09/22/88 19:48:58 From: JOHN BARTON To: BOB PADDOCK (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 7687 (STINK) Thanks for the info. I'll look for a mail order source. Msg#: 7169 *INK* 09/05/88 18:04:45 From: GLENDON TODD To: MARK VOORHEES (Rcvd) Subj: WEATHER PROBLEM I just downloaded weather and weather2, and am having problems; the darn thing won't dial the phone (compuserve). My setup is a PC's Limited AT with a Packard-Bell 1200+ modem as COM1. When I try to start a manual session, the program shuts off DTR, transmits {something} to the modem, and then just sits there. Any ideas? /* Glen */ Msg#: 7220 *INK* 09/07/88 00:22:18 From: MARK VOORHEES To: GLENDON TODD (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 7169 (WEATHER PROBLEM) Glen; Thanks for your report. We seem to be experiencing some unusual problems with some systems, which is worrysome, as I have successfully tested the software on several types of machines. The shutoff of DTR would be a function of the comm system library I use, so I'll investigate further. After a loss of DTR, the system would wait, so that explains the halt. I'll get back to you as soon as I determine the fault. Mark Voorhees Msg#: 7309 *INK* 09/09/88 00:42:01 From: GLENDON TODD To: MARK VOORHEES (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 7220 (WEATHER PROBLEM) Okay. I tried, just out of curiousity, directing the modem to ignore the state of DTR, with no result. Will be interested in seeing what you come up with. /* Glen */ Msg#: 7359 *INK* 09/12/88 00:39:13 From: MARK VOORHEES To: GLENDON TODD (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 7309 (WEATHER PROBLEM) Glen; Since I last wrote you, I've found that there is a bug in the LITECOMM library, relating to version 1.5 of TurboC. It apparently only shows up on certain systems (modems), and I didn't see it while I was debugging. A replacement (update) of the library is on it's way to me, and I will re-compile the programs, and afterum testing, I'll return the corrected modules on your disk to you. Thanks very much for your help. I hope we can solve all of these problems at once! Mark Voorhees Msg#: 7638 *INK* 09/20/88 00:09:16 From: GLENDON TODD To: MARK VOORHEES (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 7359 (WEATHER PROBLEM) Thanks. Will keep an eye open here. /* Glen */ Msg#: 7244 *INK* 09/07/88 13:18:35 From: DANIEL CAMPBELL To: SYSOP (Rcvd) Subj: WEATHER2.ARC I downloaded weather2.arc today but notice there is no weather.exe file in the archive. Is there any particular reason for this or do I need to download the earlier .arc file to obtain the weather.exe program? Msg#: 7274 *INK* 09/08/88 09:34:06 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: DANIEL CAMPBELL (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 7244 (WEATHER2.ARC) Sorry about that. I was told that the file contained a new WEATHER.EXE so I put it in the description. It turns out that all its contains is the radar modules. WEATHER.ARC contains WEATHER.EXE plus the communcation overlays. We're working on a better method for posting and updating these weather files, so the situation should improve soon. Msg#: 7263 *INK* 09/07/88 23:15:50 From: THOMAS BARNETT To: KEN DAVIDSON (Rcvd) Subj: CC INK What happened to my July-August INK? Thomas Msg#: 7270 *INK* 09/08/88 08:59:25 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: THOMAS BARNETT (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 7263 (CC INK) Beats me. How 'bout a little more information? Like when you subscribed, how you subscribed, whether you've received earlier copies by subscription, whether you've changed your address, and your complete address including ZIP code plus phone number. I can't do much for you with just a name. Msg#: 7304 *INK* 09/08/88 21:23:50 From: THOMAS BARNETT To: KEN DAVIDSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 7270 (CC INK) I thought perhaps there had been a mailing problem. My address is 4131 Baltimore, Las Vegas, NV 89104. I subscribed in Janurary and have received March-April and May-June issues. Thomas. Msg#: 7313 *INK* 09/09/88 08:46:29 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: THOMAS BARNETT (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 7304 (CC INK) I'll check the list for your name (they're in order by ZIP code, so I needed your address). The fact that you got two issues already suggests that the post office lost issue #4. I'll let you know what I find. Msg#: 7314 *INK* 09/09/88 09:34:55 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: THOMAS BARNETT (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 7304 (CC INK) The list shows your address as 4132 Baltimore, but I wouldn't think that would be enough to prevent delivery. I've dropped a copy of issue 4 in the mail to you. Msg#: 7331 *INK* 09/09/88 21:00:56 From: THOMAS BARNETT To: KEN DAVIDSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 7314 (CC INK) Thanks for the help. -Thomas- Msg#: 7264 *INK* 09/07/88 23:15:52 From: JOSEPH MANGAN To: ALL Subj: GOES VISSR DATA Hello My name is Joe Mangan I currently am decoding GOES VISSR (WEFAX) data from the GOES satelite I would like to offer any help I can in this area for development of Hardware/Software for this purpose. I have a background in Computer graphics and Image processing. I hope this area of interest could grow from just simple WEFAX to VAS and VISSR operations as well as HRPT. Msg#: 7306 *INK* 09/08/88 22:01:42 From: MICHAEL ARDAI To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: SONAR SCANNER I am wondering why the data bus is split as 2 nybbles for the two banks of transistors? If they alternated (A1 A2 B1 B2 ...), there would be no trouble with the 0xAA outputted by the POST. Am I missing something obvious? /mike Msg#: 7315 *INK* 09/09/88 09:43:22 From: STEVE CIARCIA To: MICHAEL ARDAI (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 7306 (SONAR SCANNER) I tend to wire things in nibbles because they make a neet schematic. Since Ed Nisley didn't make a stink about it when he wrote the software, I never thought about the benefits of anything else. --Steve Msg#: 7434 *INK* 09/13/88 21:34:24 From: ED NISLEY To: MICHAEL ARDAI (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 7306 (SONAR SCANNER) If I remember correctly, the way the bits are arranged actually does work with the standard BIOS setup value. The problem comes up because there's no way to tell what the data will be... any bit pattern is possible, so any way you wire it up is guaranteed to not work at least some of the time. Msg#: 7519 *INK* 09/16/88 18:41:19 From: MICHAEL ARDAI To: ED NISLEY (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 7434 (SONAR SCANNER) Thanks. I guess I will have to add current limiting to the supply. :-{ /mike Msg#: 7322 *INK* 09/09/88 14:42:02 From: BRIAN JOSEPH To: KEN DAVIDSON (Rcvd) Subj: LOST #4? Ken, Well, I almost thought I was going to get #4 on time, but it now looks like someone took my name off of the list!!! I called CCI today and talked to a very nice woman(didn't get her name). She asked me for my zip and said that I wasn't on the list! I explained that I had recieved two copies of #1 and two copies of #2 and I had called previously to bring the dups to someone's attention. Well, anyway, she said she would call me back, but I'm leaving for Boston in an hour, so could you make sure that #4 gets out to me?? Thanks alot! Brian. P.S. Here is my address: Brian Joseph 2922 W. Lunt Chicago, IL 60645 Msg#: 7324 *INK* 09/09/88 15:42:46 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: BRIAN JOSEPH (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 7322 (LOST #4?) Very nice woman? We don't have anyone who fits that description around here (as he starts looking for a new job). ;-) I'll pass your name along to Jeannette (whom I'm sure you're talking about). Msg#: 7372 *INK* 09/12/88 10:58:53 From: BRIAN JOSEPH To: KEN DAVIDSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 7324 (LOST #4?) Ken, I tried to get back to you sooner, but your modem didn't want to give me a carrier! Anyway, I did talk to Jeanette right before I left and she said she would take care of it.....By the way, she was VERY NICE!!!!! Thanks!!! Brian. Msg#: 7353 *INK* 09/11/88 09:38:59 From: GARY WHITE To: JAMES RONALD (Rcvd) Subj: SPEECH.COM Thanks for the info. What does the Speech.com program do? I'm not clear as to whether that is the driver for the Radio Shack text to speech chip or something else. Regards, Gary Msg#: 7426 *INK* 09/13/88 20:34:31 From: JAMES RONALD To: GARY WHITE (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 7353 (SPEECH.COM) Speech.com is a program that uses the speaker in your PC to create phonemes (words are made up of phonems). The program did not work on machines with clock speeds > 4.77Mhz. I have modified the program so the user can now select the speech rate and pause lenght from the command line. Speech.com is a TSan can be called from any program. I also have some demo stuff to use with it. Msg#: 7383 *INK* 09/12/88 15:20:37 From: JEFF JENSEN To: JOHN MEALY Subj: GOT IT! John, the big box arrived! Thank you. Lets discuss compensations. - - Jeff Msg#: 7538 *INK* 09/17/88 18:00:12 From: ERIC POOLE To: KEN DAVIDSON (Rcvd) Subj: CCI SUBSCRIPTION Ken: . I wonder if you could find out what (if anything) has happened to my subscription to Circuit Cellar INK. I subscribed on June 30th with Check No. 861, and received the July/August issue, and since then nothing. Is the Sept/Oct issue just not out yet? . Subscription information: Eric Poole / RKT Engineering, Inc. 89 Old Nashua Road Londonderry, NH 03053-3611 . Thanks. . . . . . . ep Msg#: 7582 *INK* 09/19/88 08:48:02 From: CURT FRANKLIN To: ERIC POOLE (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 7538 (CCI SUBSCRIPTION) Eric, the September/October issue is at the printer now, and will be mailed within the next two weeks. At present, we (like several other bi-monthlies) mail in the middle of the two months covered by the issue, not at the beginning of the first month covered. . Curt Franklin . Editor in Chief . Circuit Cellar INK Msg#: 7997 *INK* 10/04/88 00:47:17 From: ERIC POOLE To: CURT FRANKLIN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 7582 (CCI SUBSCRIPTION) Got it. Thanks for the reply. . . . ep Msg#: 7545 *INK* 09/17/88 23:45:50 From: ANDY PICKETT To: DALE NASSAR (Rcvd) Subj: LASER WRITING Dale: Ran across your messages a while back on laser writing. How is the project going? I have been experimenting with HeNe and Argon lasers for a while and would like to do some writing as well. Any chance of sharing your "secrets" in a future INK article? ---> Andy <--- Msg#: 7568 *INK* 09/19/88 00:18:04 From: DALE NASSAR To: ANDY PICKETT (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 7545 (LASER WRITING) Andy, I'm about to start outlining some laser-based articles for INK (my author's guide must be lost in the mail). I'm about to find time to do more on that laser writer project--it threw me off into two other laser projects. One of them (holographic synthesis by computer) is taking up most of my spare time, I am getting very interesting results with this one. I plan to submit this one to INK first. I have played around with another very interesting 3D laser application concerning the speaker deflector, I projected the Lissajous figures onto a vibrating plane ( a sinous vibration in the Z-direction) and they came to life. It turns out that the "motion" that you see in standard Lissajous figures is actually various views of a collapsed (onto a plane) 3D figure. The image produced is truly 3D (parallex and depth are present) This becomes apparent by moving your head and focusing at various depths in the volume. I need a good way, however, to get more depth. Using a speaker I only get about 3/4 inch (with a woofer). I was think of a motor and a piston-like appratus .... I guess I have to learn to finish one project before I start another. --Dale Msg#: 7596 *INK* 09/19/88 09:41:26 From: STEVE CIARCIA To: DALE NASSAR (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 7568 (LASER WRITING) BTW, you can download the author's guide if it indeed did get lost in the mail (a lot more seems to lately). Go to the CC INK section. It's in there someplace. --Steve Msg#: 7675 *INK* 09/20/88 22:02:47 From: ANDY PICKETT To: DALE NASSAR (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 7568 (LASER WRITING) Dale: Glad someone else is involved in the project as deeply (or in your case DEEPER!) than I am. Your holographic and 3D projects sound extremely exciting! I would be MORE than interested in knowing more! Please keep me informed of your progress. Maybe we should start a laser "SIG"! Msg#: 7685 *INK* 09/21/88 02:01:36 From: SIMON SABATO To: ANDY PICKETT (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 7545 (LASER WRITING) Although a beginner in LASER technology, it has intrigued me from the start. I have only a Helium Neon 2mw and a 5mw tube, but they have kept me interested. I would love to learn about computer controlled laser, etc, maybe a SIG would be a good idea. -Simon Sabato Msg#: 7746 *INK* 09/22/88 15:23:22 From: CHUCK FRYAR To: SIMON SABATO (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 7685 (LASER WRITING) Simon (and Andy), Lasers are a lot of fun and I have just enough knowledge to be dangerous but not useful. A sig is a great idea or at least keep in touch about things you can do. My special interests are laser writing (scanning onto a screen for projection TV, etc) and holography. Keep in touch. ++ Chuck Msg#: 7779 *INK* 09/23/88 09:13:37 From: STEVE CIARCIA To: CHUCK FRYAR (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 7746 (LASER WRITING) Someplace around here I mentioned a Company in Mass that makes the mirrors for laser writing. I just remembered the name.... General Scanning. Now if I could only remember where they were ....... --Steve Msg#: 8996 *INK* 10/23/88 07:48:58 From: MARK FISHER To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 7779 (LASER WRITING) Just to say hello and let you know that there are a few laser "professionals" out here in the vast wastelands of technology... In regard to General Scanning: GENERAL SCANNING 550 Arsenal St. Watertown, MA 02272 617-924-1010 We use a lot of G.S. components, and just to let you know... they are not cheap!! Simple positioners are $100 a pop while graphics scanners can run around $750! Anyway, we here at Laser Entertainment keep a BBS running 24 hours a day if anyone has any questions about lasers and associated things! L.E. BBS: 702-876-2610 300/1200 Baud, 8 Bits, NO Parity, 1 Stop KEEP UP HTE GOOD WORK!!! Msg#: 9015 *INK* 10/23/88 12:14:14 From: STEVE CIARCIA To: MARK FISHER Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 8996 (LASER WRITING) How about doing a project for INK on computer positioned laser scanners? --Steve PS Do you know where I can find IR transparent plastic sheets (opaque to visible light)? Msg#: 7546 *INK* 09/17/88 23:48:42 From: ANDY PICKETT To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: LASER WRITING Steve: What does the future hold in store for those of us (including, of course, yourself!) who are trying to figure out how to do laser writing? I am extremely interested in finding out the secret! Any articles in mind, and if so - - - WHEN? (Yes, I'm chomping at the bit.....)!!! ---> Andy <--- Msg#: 7589 *INK* 09/19/88 09:24:51 From: STEVE CIARCIA To: ANDY PICKETT (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 7546 (LASER WRITING) Laser writing involves moving a mirror and the real problem is mechanical, not electronic. I once looked into the mirrors (they're actually galvanometers) and they were about $500 each. Solve that problem and we can do something about the rest. --Steve Msg#: 7676 *INK* 09/20/88 22:05:42 From: ANDY PICKETT To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 7589 (LASER WRITING) Steve: Thanks for your reply. In my case, cost is no object (or at least not MUCH of one!). Where can I get more info? ---> Andy <--- Msg#: 7710 *INK* 09/21/88 14:21:11 From: STEVE CIARCIA To: ANDY PICKETT (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 7676 (LASER WRITING) I don't remember the company name without doing some digging but they are in Mass if that is any help. --STeve Msg#: 8073 *INK* 10/05/88 09:18:09 From: JIM NELSON To: ANDY PICKETT (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 7676 (LASER WRITING) The General Scanning gear is used by no less a company than View Engineering, the makers of $300K stereo video terminals and some outrageously good image processing based inspection & SQC gear. I saw the latter at the June Robots/Vision/Detroit show. Your contact: Michael Andre / Sales Mgr. Central Region / 312 490-8841 or call their Watertown, Ma. location at (617) 924-1010. They offer kits configured to draw two dimensional vectors with 16 bit resolution in both axes, or configured to generate raster scans of adjustable frequency and retrace timing in both horizontal and vertical axes. They even spit out video timing signals: dot clock, blanking and sync. The vector processing board can handle up to 680 vectors singly or repeated. Vector speed is programmable. The z axis controls a linear focusing lens stage enabling you to prevent focus errors ( needed unless you're writing onto a concave or an infinitely distant surface). They offer geometric correction hardware as an adjunct to the above, analogous to the "pincushion" correction circuitry necessary in video monitor design where the "writing" source is relatively close ( less than three times target image diagonal) to the surface written. If you go the raster route, you can genlock (sync slave) an appropriate video source to the positioner, and by modulating the laser beam can achieve monochrome laser video ( if you can modulate your laser). If you've got a large budget, synchronize three positioning systems, or mix three lasers, filtered appropriately, through a prism just ahead of the focus stage on this gear. You could modulate those three source laser signals with video R, G, & B signals and achieve full color, maybe. The stuff isn't cheap: You'll pay about $14K for the a complete HeNe kit which includes the smart drive electronics I described above, the linear translator required for focusing, X-Y positioning head, mounting hardware etc. They also offer ( $17K) kits with YAG and CO2 optics that allow cutting of metal and non-metal substances respectively. Add the cost of the laser proper to that and you're off and running. They've even got a software package called laserplot that does: you guessed it, inputs Hewlett Packard 7550 HPGL files and outputs a file of beam positioning commands. So you can use AutoCad, etc. Their positioners are built around galvanometers, but some other people use piezoelectric actuators. If you need any help, call me, Jim Nelson, at Chrysalis Microsystems, Inc., (313) 482-0656, FAX: (313) 482-7733. Msg#: 8089 *INK* 10/05/88 18:30:23 From: ALEXANDER SCHNEIDER To: JIM NELSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 8073 (LASER WRITING) Do you know of any companies using Acousto-Optic deflection systems for this type of workd? Alex Msg#: 8126 *INK* 10/06/88 07:46:34 From: JIM NELSON To: ALEXANDER SCHNEIDER (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 8089 (LASER WRITING) So you want to use a Bragg cell? I think they're used by Medar in their $11,000 paperback-book-sized contour sensor. This system only needs to diffract through one degree of freedom though, and wouldn't help you paint with laser unless you're painting for creatures in Flatland. You could call Brimrose corp. 301 668-5800 They build commercial Bragg cells: maybe they have one that can be controlled in two dimensions. Msg#: 8192 *INK* 10/07/88 12:19:53 From: RICHARD ANDREWS To: ALEXANDER SCHNEIDER (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 8089 (LASER WRITING) . Try also a company called Burleigh, I think that they are located somewhere in New York State. Msg#: 8207 *INK* 10/07/88 18:19:38 From: ALEXANDER SCHNEIDER To: RICHARD ANDREWS (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 8192 (LASER WRITING) My main interest in Acousto-Optic is in power spectrun analyzers which are used to identify microwave frequencies present in an electronic warfare situation. Alex Msg#: 8208 *INK* 10/07/88 18:23:01 From: ALEXANDER SCHNEIDER To: JIM NELSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 8126 (LASER WRITING) What's a contour sensor? You could provide for two dimensional writing with two perpendicularly oriented Bragg cells. In fact, a single Bragg cell could be used for two dimensions, just put two transducers on perpendicular sides of the cell. Alex Msg#: 9427 *INK* 10/31/88 03:28:53 From: GARY LEAR To: JIM NELSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 8073 (LASER WRITING) Jim, General Scanning also sells some inexpensive ($40) single axis scanners with drive electronics included. --Gary Msg#: 9455 *INK* 10/31/88 09:49:02 From: STEVE CIARCIA To: GARY LEAR (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 9427 (LASER WRITING) Do you have anymore info on those lowcost units. I'd like to do a laser scanner project but, it is hardly worthwile if no one can afford to build it. --STeve Msg#: 9483 *INK* 11/01/88 03:45:17 From: GARY LEAR To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 9455 (LASER WRITING) I have seen one of the scanners that I mentioned at work (large aerospace company). One of our senior scientists purchased it and told me the price, however he has made significant "round off" errors before. I believe he still has the unit and if so I will obtain a model number and try to confirm the price. It will probably take a week or so. --Gary Msg#: 9485 *INK* 11/01/88 03:57:42 From: JIM NELSON To: GARY LEAR (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 9427 (LASER WRITING) What are the model numbers on those products? For $40 what kind of repeat- ability can they offer? Msg#: 9487 *INK* 11/01/88 04:20:11 From: GARY LEAR To: JIM NELSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 9485 (LASER WRITING) I don't have very many specifics (please see my response to Steve), but I have seen the scanner running in the lab. It appeared to be a resonant type drive, so the repeatability should be fairly good. I was mostly interested in the scan position sensor at the time. The sensor and the associated processing should allow you to do whatever you want. --Gary Msg#: 9636 *INK* 11/04/88 04:50:43 From: GARY LEAR To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 9455 (LASER WRITING) Steve, I tracked down that laser scanner info that I promised you. The device is made by General Scanning (alot of people here seem to know the company, I am surprised no one has mentioned this part). The model number is IB2550A (I am uncertain if that is a "0" or a 'O') and it is indeed a dual voice coil, resonant type scanner. One of the coils is used for drive and the other is a sense coil. A drive electronics board is also included. Optically speaking, the scanner has a one inch square first surface mirror. Now for the potentially bad news, the gentleman that I borrowed it from thought it sold for $40 in quanity (perphaps 100 units) and $100 or so in singles. If enough of us are willing to buy one this may not matter. Since he was somewhat uncertain, I will attempt to verify the price and get back to you. --Gary P.S. Let me know if I can be of any help on your project. Msg#: 7620 *INK* 09/19/88 16:00:55 From: JOHN COOK To: KEN DAVIDSON (Rcvd) Subj: #5 Ken, I was just wondering if CCInk #5 is out yet... I am currently waiting for that article you mentioned about RS-232 line drivers using 1488 and 1489 chips. That project out of RE involving the serial port is still on hold pending more info on how to drive signals to and from the port. Also, I've noticed that Steve likes to use the serial port for lots of his projects and seeing how that interface works would save some agrivation when reading some old articles. thanks- John Msg#: 7642 *INK* 09/20/88 08:55:54 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: JOHN COOK (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 7620 (#5) I believe Curt just said in a message yesterday that the magazine is out at the printers and should be mailing within the next two weeks. It does have the first "From The Bench" column that deals with the different RS-232 chips, so it should be helpful. Please be patient, though. Msg#: 7714 *INK* 09/21/88 16:40:22 From: JOHN COOK To: KEN DAVIDSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 7642 (#5) Ken, thanks for your help. I'm up at school now and dont have my normal connections working just yet, including mail delivery. Thanks again, John Msg#: 7649 *INK* 09/20/88 11:10:51 From: PAUL TAUGER To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: X-10 CONTROLLERS Hi, Steve. I've been quite involved with X-10 controllers, using them for home security, lawn sprinkling and just about anything else you can imagine. I've been using the X-10 Power House interface with significant success. Will the October issue of CC INK cover receivers? To run the sprinklers and my air conditioning, I've had to kluge together some standard X-10 remote receivers and a couple of relays -- not very elegant and much too expensive. Also, I've written a small assembly language program for MS-DOS machines that permits remote operation of the X-10 Power House using com software that has Host capabilities. If you like, I'd be happy to upload it here. BTW, I'm delighted that you're publishing your own magazine; BYTE has made an enormous mistake by letting you get away! Msg#: 7692 *INK* 09/21/88 08:28:56 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: PAUL TAUGER (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 7649 (X-10 CONTROLLERS) The September/October issue of INK has an article which describes a new two-way module from X-10 that allows your computer to both transmit and receive X-10 codes to and from the power line. There aren't any plans for covering the switch modules per se, but I wouldn't rule something like that out altogether. Msg#: 7708 *INK* 09/21/88 13:34:20 From: RON WILSON To: PAUL TAUGER (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 7649 (X-10 CONTROLLERS) I've taken apart and modified some of the X-10 appliance modules. They contain a relay that can be rewired for controling low voltage stuff. I'm afraid that the only way to control things like air coolers and such that require large power swithing is to use an extra relay rated for both the current and voltage. Msg#: 7731 *INK* 09/21/88 22:34:28 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: RON WILSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 7708 (X-10 CONTROLLERS) If you want to control something that is rated higher than the plug-in appliance module, you can use X-10's switched outlet (Wall Receptacle Module). It replaces the regular wall outlet with one switched and one unswitched outlet, and can be used to control anything that can be plugged into a 15A wall outlet. That includes air conditioners and such. There are also 15A and 20A 220V modules available for the big stuff. All of these are available from Heathkit or directly from X-10. Msg#: 7651 *INK* 09/20/88 15:55:32 From: BOB ARMSTRONG To: ALEXANDER SCHNEIDER (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 7535 (THANK YOU) It was late fifties or early sixties. The wobbulator capacitor basicall has a voice coil in it that varies the capacitance when a current is applied to the coil (crude, but effective). This was used to shift the output signal. When the signal echoes were returned, the phase shift was measured. It fascinated me as a young experimenter. I remembered it because I found the wobbulator in a toolbox, with bolts and nuts sticking to the magnetic case.... Msg#: 7817 *INK* 09/24/88 11:55:34 From: ALEXANDER SCHNEIDER To: BOB ARMSTRONG Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 7651 (THANK YOU) So the Wobbulator was just hte capacitor in an RC oscillator whose capacitance was varied with a pattern, and when a signal was returned, the phase shift was measured and compared to the current shift produced by the wobbulator? Doesn't sound right. What would the military use it for? Alex Msg#: 7717 *INK* 09/21/88 18:28:01 From: TONY WEIL To: SYSOP (Rcvd) Subj: HEATHKIT I Would like to build the Weather Station in CCI. Does anyone their know the address of Heathkit. Also does anyone know the price of the two available kits? I would appreciate it if you would forward this to the appropriate party. Thanks Tony Msg#: 7726 *INK* 09/21/88 22:06:16 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: TONY WEIL (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 7717 (HEATHKIT) Mark is listing the address for Heathkit in issue #5 of INK, but I'll list here as well. Heath Company P.O. Box 1288 Benton Harbor, MI 49022 (800) 253-0570 (616) 982-3411 The ID-5001 kit costs $500 for the basic kit or $600 with the RS-232 interface, humidity gauge, and rain gauge. The ID-4001 kit costs $400. Msg#: 7734 *INK* 09/22/88 03:37:54 From: ROBT SCHUH To: SYSOP (Rcvd) Subj: CCINK FUTURE ARTICLE SUGGESTION Happy to be a CCInk subscriber; am interested in IEEE-488 (GPIB) Don't know very much about it technically, i.e. what it would take to build a scratch project for PC compatibles. Would be a skeleton for managing multiple processes, e.g. optical reader controlled from PC console, with real-timecounter updating, etc. Thanks for this outstanding BBS and keep the CCInks coming in the mail!! Robert Schuh Msg#: 7736 *INK* 09/22/88 08:40:21 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: ROBT SCHUH (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 7734 (CCINK FUTURE ARTICLE SUGGESTION) Thanks for the comments. I've put your message in the public message area for INK so that all article suggestions are in one place and so others can make some comments. Msg#: 7739 *INK* 09/22/88 10:05:55 From: CURT FRANKLIN To: ROBT SCHUH (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 7734 (CCINK FUTURE ARTICLE SUGGESTION) As Ken said, thanks for the article suggestion! I've been thinking that a series of articles on the various IEEE serial communications standards might be nice. The articles would, of course, include information on how to design with the standard, what precisely the standard is, and what types of applications the standard is particularly good for. What say the readers? Is this something that you would be interested in reading? Is it something you'd be interested in writing? Let me know. I depend on this bulletin board and the USMail I get from readers to let me know what kind of articles to put in INK. Please feel free to use this forum as a way of getting the articles you want to see into the magazine. .Thanks, .Curt Franklin Msg#: 7749 *INK* 09/22/88 17:03:15 From: RICHARD ANDREWS To: ROBT SCHUH (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 7734 (CCINK FUTURE ARTICLE SUGGESTION) . If you can afford to buy premade boards I would suggest that you do so. I have used Boards from National Instruments with success. National is located somewhere around Dallas, I think. Msg#: 7786 *INK* 09/23/88 12:13:07 From: BOB PADDOCK To: CURT FRANKLIN (Rcvd) Subj: INK IDEA(S) Here is a couple of things I would like to see articals on: The how, whys and whats of Cellular Automats (Spelling?) and Nural Net Works (Spelling?). Not some thing that only covers the theory, but some thing that is actualy useful (or at least does SOME THING with real hardware). Msg#: 7818 *INK* 09/24/88 12:05:21 From: ALEXANDER SCHNEIDER To: BOB PADDOCK (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 7786 (INK IDEA(S)) Cellular Automata are purely software, best implemented on an existing machine. Alex Msg#: 7859 *INK* 09/26/88 07:08:47 From: BOB PADDOCK To: ALEXANDER SCHNEIDER (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 7818 (INK IDEA(S)) Not true. A Cellular Automata can be built with one DRAM to hold the naeberhood of cells, and a static RAM to hold the index structure. An issue of EE Times discribed some of this work at MIT a few years ago, they were trying for pattern recignition using farly simple, but high speed, hardware. Msg#: 7896 *INK* 09/28/88 09:57:22 From: CURT FRANKLIN To: BOB PADDOCK (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 7786 (INK IDEA(S)) Bob - Thanks for the suggestions. I hadn't really thought about cellular automata as an article idea, but you'll be happy to know that we are actively exploring neural net projects. Actually, a cellular automata project could be kind of neat. Maybe a special machine, dedicated to playing Life, or something along those lines. Let me know if you have more thoughts on the subject, and I'll start digging here. Curt Franklin Msg#: 7900 *INK* 09/28/88 10:10:44 From: BOB PADDOCK To: CURT FRANKLIN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 7896 (INK IDEA(S)) While it is true that a Cellular Automata does resemble the John Conways Game Of Live, there is more to it that that. If I understand the underlieing theory (probably over simplified to the point of me being wrong?) each bit or 'cell' becomes in effect its own CPU/Memory system, so with a 256K DRAM you would effectivly have 256K of CPUs on the one chip. If I rember correctly MIT was trying to train (Teach?) a C.A. to do patter recegntion for video or speach. I'll see if I can dig up the exact issue of EE Times that was talking about it..... Msg#: 7982 *INK* 10/03/88 19:21:29 From: ALEXANDER SCHNEIDER To: BOB PADDOCK (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 7859 (INK IDEA(S)) What would one do with such an automaton? There is, of course, a processor in addition to those RAM's, isn't there? Why is one a DRAM and the other a SRAM? How is input and output handled? Alex Msg#: 7983 *INK* 10/03/88 19:22:56 From: ALEXANDER SCHNEIDER To: CURT FRANKLIN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 7896 (INK IDEA(S)) It would probably be a difficult task to make a Life machine that runs the fastest of any so far. I believe there is an Amiga version which uses the blitter (which happens to work splendidly) and acheives a remarkably high number of frames per second. Alex Msg#: 7984 *INK* 10/03/88 19:24:08 From: ALEXANDER SCHNEIDER To: BOB PADDOCK (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 7900 (INK IDEA(S)) A DRAM alone couldn't do anything useful. You'd need something to actually go in a change the values according to your rules. Alex Msg#: 8021 *INK* 10/04/88 12:15:00 From: BOB PADDOCK To: ALEXANDER SCHNEIDER (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 7984 (INK IDEA(S)) Your correct about the rules. From what the EE times artical shows in the graphics discription, (but this dosn't seem to be supported by the text of the artical), the DRAM is treated as alot of vary small capacitors, of varying voltage. The voltages are read out and algabricly summed to update a targe cell from the state of its four neighboring cells. It might have just been an analogy. With todays TTL level DRAMs reading a cell voltage doesn't seem to practical. Maybe with some thing old like the 1103 you could do it? Msg#: 8028 *INK* 10/04/88 13:16:57 From: RON WILSON To: ALEXANDER SCHNEIDER (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 7982 (INK IDEA(S)) I was reading (in Dr Dobb's - I think) that somebody has designed a "Smart RAM Chip." The device includes its own processor unit to aid in doing matrix oriented data operations. I guess there's an additional mode pin (or some thing) to tell the chip when your sending it a command Ob(lor getting status or a result. Msg#: 8087 *INK* 10/05/88 18:23:29 From: ALEXANDER SCHNEIDER To: BOB PADDOCK (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 8021 (INK IDEA(S)) Why not just make it digital? Run it all on an existing machien. Alex Msg#: 8125 *INK* 10/06/88 07:45:29 From: BOB PADDOCK To: ALEXANDER SCHNEIDER (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 8087 (INK IDEA(S)) How do you sum the state of four naibors, and represent in with one bit? If I understood every thing about CAMs I would be the one writeing the artical about them, insteed of asking to see one about them. Msg#: 8205 *INK* 10/07/88 18:16:13 From: ALEXANDER SCHNEIDER To: BOB PADDOCK (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 8125 (INK IDEA(S)) The single bit doesn't hold in itself the conditions of all of its surrounding bits. The bit is decided to be on or off by looking at other bits, for example, if an odd number of its neighbors are on, it will be on, and if even, it will be off. It has been implemented over and over on many, many machines, so its no horrible feat. Alex Msg#: 7932 *INK* 09/29/88 12:17:34 From: BOB PADDOCK To: CURT FRANKLIN (Rcvd) Subj: CAM I was wrong about one point MIT is using CAMs to model physical systems like gas molecules. I wonder if it would be posiable to get a CAM to model some thing like PAs LOTTO numbers? See: "New Technology Marries Old Idea: Result? CAM" by Chappell Brown; and "Notes On A Parallel System" by Chappell Brown in E.E. Times Monday, Sept 28, 1987 pg 57 & 61. Also see "AI: A Cellular Automation in Expert-2" by Jack Park in Dr. Dobbs April 1986. Maybe the Dr Dobbs artical is where you got the idea that Life and CAMs were the same, they use an example of Life; ie. They construct a CAM that plays Life. Also chapter 7:"LIFE" in the book "Hackers" by Steve Leve (Sp?) for a historical look at Life and its relation to AI. Msg#: 7959 *INK* 09/30/88 19:43:09 From: DON ALFONSO To: ED NISLEY (Rcvd) Subj: SONAR SCANNER Thanks for the Sonar Scanner Project. I used a 6-wire stepper, 25 wire ribbon cable wired as per "PC END" and eliminated the PNP transistors. The opto sensor and motor work fine. However, I can't get an image. Well, twice out of say 25 attempts I got an image immediatly after the screen is drawn (180 deg.), before the motor takes it's first step. After that, no further images. I can hear the transducers sound. Would appreciate any ideas you may have on this... Donnie Msg#: 7995 *INK* 10/04/88 00:37:11 From: KAMAL HYDER To: SUBSCRIPTION DEPT. Subj: MY SUBSCRIPTION Hi! I subscribed to CCI probably in April '88 and received the first two issues of CCI. I then moved to TEXAS and then wrote to CCI about a change of address. Since I've moved, I've received NO issues of CCI. Can you make sure that you have my correct address and mail me the issues that I haven't received. If you want me to pay again for the issues that I haven't received, please write to me. My address is: Kamal Hyder 4905 Wild Holly Apt 1126 Arlington, Texas 76017 (817) 561-1451 Thanks for your consideration. Msg#: 8117 *INK* 10/06/88 00:04:29 From: GLENN TRACY To: SUBSCRIPTION DEPT. Subj: MY SUBSCRIPTION Back in early August I subscribed via this bulletin board for CCI. However, I have yet to receive any copies of CCI or confirmation of my subscription. I used my visa card as method of payment. Could you please investigate this and let me know what has happened. I am very anxious to start getting a copy of this. Thank you for your cooperation. Msg#: 8130 *INK* 10/06/88 08:55:12 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: GLENN TRACY (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 8117 (MY SUBSCRIPTION) I need your full address including ZIP code before I can check anything. If you subscribed in early August, it may have been right after the cut-off between issue #4 and #5. If you're scheduled to start with #5, then you should see it within a week or so. I'm surprised that you didn't get a confirmation via an Email message. Every on-line subscription gets one. Like I said, leave me your address and I'll check. Reply has been deleted Msg#: 8123 *INK* 10/06/88 05:43:58 From: KEVIN O'CONNOR To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: CANON PRINTER ENGINE DRIVERS I've seen products on the market such as JLASER that directly drive CANON laser printer engines and by-pass the internal controller on the printer. I'm interested in doing something like this, but I don't know where to go to get the info on the interface. What do you suggest? Msg#: 8132 *INK* 10/06/88 09:02:01 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: KEVIN O'CONNOR (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 8123 (CANON PRINTER ENGINE DRIVERS) Steve is gone for the next week or so. I wouldn't know where to start in finding information about directly driving a Canon printer engine, and I'm not sure Steve would either. Anyone else have some hints? Msg#: 8189 *INK* 10/07/88 11:45:42 From: LARRY YOUNKINS To: KEN DAVIDSON (Rcvd) Subj: TW523 Ken, I'm very interested to read your update article on the two-way X-10 modules in CCINK. I received some printed matter from X-10 on these units, but getting units to evaluated is like pulling teeth with these guys!! The documentation from X-10 indicates that there is a command "read-back" feature and a line monitoring ability for data collision detection. Have you used these features? Thanks, Larry Younkins Msg#: 8200 *INK* 10/07/88 16:40:52 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: LARRY YOUNKINS (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 8189 (TW523) What that basically means is that the transmitter and receiver sections are independent and can operate at the same time. You can monitor the power line for other transmitter activity, then start transmitting when the line is clear. You can check the code received at the same time that you are transmitting to be sure they are the same. If someone else is also transmitting, you'll get garbled code back and know that there has been a collision. I haven't myself used the module in that complex a setup. Most of what I've done is implement some simple receiver code just to see that the module works. I've also built a BCC bus interface so that I can bring the zero-crossing signal into one of the BCC180's interrupts so that reception can be done in the background. I still have to integrate the code into the rest of what I've done, though. As for getting the modules, X-10 originally promised that the modules would be available in quantity when the article appeared. Since it was supposed to appear in the last issue (#4), it's a bit disturbing that they still aren't ready. The last time I talked to them, they had placed higher priority on some new "for the masses" type modules and put the TW523 on the back burner. I couldn't even get a second prototype module for use around here. One per customer for now. The fact that a sticker on the back of the module I have now says "Unit 1" should mean something (what, I'm not sure). Msg#: 8370 *INK* 10/11/88 11:18:37 From: LARRY YOUNKINS To: KEN DAVIDSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 8200 (TW523) Ken, Thanks for the reply on the TW523 modules from X-10. By the way who do you speak with at X-10 regarding technical questions and the like? Larry Younkins Msg#: 8404 *INK* 10/12/88 08:37:17 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: LARRY YOUNKINS (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 8370 (TW523) I talk directly to Dave Rye, but it's usually because I need more detail than their regular support people can supply. I would say just start at the front lines and you'll eventually get someone who can answer your questions. It wouldn't be fair to place more burden on Dave's time by having everyone ask for him directly when all they want to talk about is a typo in the data sheet or something similar. Msg#: 8243 *INK* 10/08/88 12:39:33 From: STAN VEIT To: CURT FRANKLIN (Rcvd) Subj: CONGRAULATIONS Having received my first copy of INK, I am glad to see you are Editor-in=Chief. I really enjoyed the magazine, but wonder how you can afford to put it out? Not that I want to see any other magazine as choked with ads as my own, but since the subject of your magazine is dear to my heart, I want it to prosper. I agree with Steve that you are an ideal choice for the job. Sometimes I wonder about projects. The ultimate project of the year to my mind was the Hackentosh that ran in Shopper. I expected this to create a wave of enthusiasm and it didn't. Is it that MAC people aren't hardware hackers? Some people are building Hackentosh computers but not as many as we expected. Oh well we will keep trying as long as Ziff Davis lets us. See you around the boards Stan Veit Msg#: 8653 *INK* 10/16/88 13:47:35 From: STEVE CIARCIA To: STAN VEIT (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 8243 (CONGRAULATIONS) Well I'll be. Stan Veit hanging aroung the Circuit Cellar INK BBS. Always did like hearing your opinion. Regarding prosperity, CC INK will indeed make it even though we aren't following the usual publishing rules -- stuff it full of ads, try to figure an editorial direction, and then find some readers. We have a solid direction and we'll have a paid circulation higher than anyone else our size. Yes, ads are important, but you wouldn't still be a fan if you didn't think I had my priorities right. I'm out of BYTE because I wouldn't sell out. BTW, shouldn't I be sending you a comp sub? --Steve PS Got any advertisers you want to give away :-) Msg#: 8293 *INK* 10/10/88 03:13:45 From: DONALD MACE To: ALL Subj: DIGITAL OSCILLOSCOPE Could someone out there identify a source for a kit similar to the 10MHz Digital Scope described in the Sept./Oct. CCINK? I would like to equip a small home lab and have several power supplies, waveform generators, and all kinds of other junk but I no longer have access to a scope. Thankyou in advance, Don Msg#: 8319 *INK* 10/10/88 16:47:01 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: DONALD MACE (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 8293 (DIGITAL OSCILLOSCOPE) CCI has no plans to manufacture the digital oscilloscope as a kit, and since it appears that Russ has no plans to do it himself, there isn't any source of a kit for the project. Unlike 98% of the projects Steve presented in BYTE, very few of the INK projects will be available as kits, mostly because it is up to whomever the author is to arrange for kits to be available rather than CCI. Msg#: 8348 *INK* 10/11/88 09:50:11 From: DONALD MACE To: KEN DAVIDSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 8319 (DIGITAL OSCILLOSCOPE) Thanks anyway. I think I'll search the back of BYTE for some of the different IO Board makers. Maybe MetraByte or Cyber Research have something I could use at a reasonable price. .Don Msg#: 8655 *INK* 10/16/88 14:00:05 From: STEVE CIARCIA To: DONALD MACE (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 8348 (DIGITAL OSCILLOSCOPE) I'd like to rephrase Ken's answer. We don't know how many INK project will be kits. While many of the other authors don't have kits, some do (ie Mark Voorhees) or they have referenced commercially available boards (BCC52, BCC180, ImageWise). I think if you add up all the INK articles, well over 50% have boards. As we gain readers, there will be more kits since it will make more sense to do so. --Steve Msg#: 8299 *INK* 10/10/88 10:25:28 From: CURT FRANKLIN To: WILLIAM GILES (Rcvd) Subj: RENEWAL William - Thanks for the suggestions about INK. There are plans for articles on several of the topics you mentioned, so keep your eyes peeled. Concerning renewal, you should receive a notice in the next few weeks. If you respond to it, you shouldn't have any gaps in your issues. Again, thanks for the suggestions. Keep thouse cards and letters comin' in! Curt Franklin Msg#: 8369 *INK* 10/11/88 11:06:00 From: CURT FRANKLIN To: STEVE MCINTYRE Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 6125 (8096) Steve - Sorry that this took so long, I thought that I replied to you quite a while back... Yes, I'd be very interested in seeing your ideas for projects. The 8051 family is quite popular among our readers, and we get a lot of requests for articles. Feel free to contact me here on the boaRd or by USMail. Once again, my apologies for the delay. Sometimes I get to multiplexing and stat dropping signals. Curt Franklin Msg#: 8397 *INK* 10/12/88 01:39:48 From: KEN HOWELL To: CURT FRANKLIN (Rcvd) Subj: INK PROJECT One topic for an ink project that would be rather interesting is a interface for reading/writing the magnetic strip on the back of bank cards and the like. It seems that I've always got a pile of expired credit cards, and it would be nice to use them somehow. In any event, I'd like to know how these little babies operate. Msg#: 8412 *INK* 10/12/88 10:20:22 From: CURT FRANKLIN To: KEN HOWELL (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 8397 (INK PROJECT) Hmmm, Well... I think that it would be an *interesting* project, but for some reason I can forsee an inordinate amount of interest from folks at VISA, American Express, the Secret Service, et. al. I'll think about it, and I know that no Circuit Cellar INK reader would *ever* think of using the information gained for illicit purposes, but I have some doubts about this one flying. Curt Franklin Msg#: 8422 *INK* 10/12/88 11:40:10 From: RON WILSON To: CURT FRANKLIN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 8412 (INK PROJECT) Some company has recently announced a PC security product that allows the user(s) to use ANY magnetic strip card (ATM, Credit, .....) as the security key. When you configure a "user account" with this system, you run your card through the reader and the system saves the raw data. Later, to gain access, you login and run your card through the reader to validate (cross check) you id and password. This sort of thing might be a reasonable project. Msg#: 8465 *INK* 10/12/88 21:52:35 From: KEN HOWELL To: CURT FRANKLIN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 8412 (INK PROJECT) I don't propose using the same data format as credit cards and the like.. In fact, it would seem that the resident wizzards here could come up with something better. I had envisioned something using surplus cassette heads as the interface -- and those are probably not even close to what a Visa card uses. This should solve any problems with illicit use. Alternatively, we could develop an optical card and reader, using reflective mylar. Wasn't that a suggestion for machine readable software listings, a topic over in main? Anyhow, the optical interface would be more complex, more costly and more difficult, but would probably pack quite a data density. 10 or 20 meg on a card the size of a credit card, I'd guess. --Ken. Msg#: 8471 *INK* 10/13/88 00:02:30 From: KEITH TUCHOLSKI To: KEN HOWELL (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 8397 (INK PROJECT) IN ORDER TO READ THE CARD (MAG.STRIPE) THE EASY WAY IS TO ORDER A READER FROM SOMEONE LIKE MAG-TEK. THERE ARE SEVERAL OTHERS WHICH SELL 'PULL THRU' READER IN THE $10-30 DOLLAR RANGE. ALSO ONE OF THESE COMPANIES SELL AN INTERFACE BOARD WHICH CONNECTS TO A READER AND A PC RS-232. UPON READING A CARD- THE INFO. IS SENT ASCII TO THE PC. NOT THAT ANYONE WOULD WANT THIS INFO FOR OTHER THAN SIMPLE CURIOSITY... :) BESIDES WHICH, THE DATA USUALLY CONTAINS A CHECKSUM WHICH IS ENCRYPTED W/DES. I FOUND THIS OUT APPXTWO YEARS AGO WHILE WORKING FOR A CO. THAT BUILT COMPUTER-BASED SECURITY EQPT. HAD FUN READING EVERYONE'S BANK CARDS FOR A FEW DAYS. Msg#: 8496 *INK* 10/13/88 10:04:06 From: CURT FRANKLIN To: KEN HOWELL (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 8465 (INK PROJECT) OK, OK... It sounds like this might have some potential, and maybe we could work it in a way that wouldn't attract too much of the wrong kind of attention. Thanks for the suggestion (and please, keep them coming). We'll start batting the idea around to see if we can take it anywhere. Oh yes, if there are any volunteers for bui;lding and writing up a system like this, please let me know. Thanks, Curt Franklin Msg#: 8403 *INK* 10/12/88 08:15:15 From: DAVE MILLER To: CURT FRANKLIN (Rcvd) Subj: CIRCUIT CELLAR RENEWALS It looks like it's about time to renew my subscription to Circuit Cellar, lest I miss any of the good stuff, will I recieve a notice, or should I just send $$$$? Msg#: 8411 *INK* 10/12/88 09:19:40 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: DAVE MILLER (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 8403 (CIRCUIT CELLAR RENEWALS) You should be receiving a renewal notice from the fulfillment house soon. It's not something we handle locally. As long as you mail it in when you receive it, you shouldn't miss anything. Msg#: 8431 *INK* 10/12/88 13:58:40 From: BOB STOUT To: ALL Subj: MAX232 Anyone have any experience with Maxim's max232 serial device? I am looking to incorporate it with an 8031 and wonder if anybody has experienced any problems or can offer any tips on its use. It sure appears to be a piece of cake to use. Any discussion on this family of devices would be appreciated. Msg#: 8440 *INK* 10/12/88 16:20:15 From: CURT FRANKLIN To: BOB STOUT (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 8431 (MAX232) If you haven't already seen Circuit Cellar INK #5, the first installment of From the Bench has some information on the MAX232. If you need more than that, you might try directing a message to Jeff Bachiochi here on this board. Curt Msg#: 8587 *INK* 10/14/88 20:59:31 From: BRUCE WEBB To: BOB STOUT (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 8431 (MAX232) Bob, I've been using the MAX232 with an 8031. You're right, it really is a piece of cake to use. You might want to contact Maxim for more information about their line of products. They are at 510 Pastoria Ave., Sunnyvale, CA 94086 (408)-737-7600. The literature they sent me is very good and gave me some more ideas for Maxim based products. BDW Msg#: 8493 *INK* 10/13/88 09:47:25 From: ERIC SCHUYLER To: BOB STOUT (Rcvd) Subj: MAX232/MAX233 Bob, I have used MAXIM's MAX233 in a number of projects. It is essentially the same as the MAX232, but it has all of the capacitors in the chip. You don't need ANY external components at all. Works like a charm! I have data sheets, if you're interested. Eric Schuyler Msg#: 8670 *INK* 10/16/88 17:57:29 From: WILLIAM BEEBE To: CURT FRANKLIN (Rcvd) Subj: PRESET AND FUTURE NEWS ITEMS I just finished reading my Issue 5. As usual, well done. However I am a bit agravated that you are *finally* going to do a project with the 80C196KA. I look forward to the article, and would like to know if there is something I can do to participate. I'm working on a system for a small firm in Central Florida that will use at least two 80C196s in the system design, and will expand it's capabilities by adding additional 80C196 boards to the base system. It's designed around STD bus. I have a full set of tools, and can offer support if needed. I would also like to comment on the 68000 DRAM controller cicuitry. First, I can't find the DP8421 called out in drawing figure 3a. I've looked in all my National data books, and the closest I've found is the DP8428/DP8429 in the 1986 Series 32000 data book. The DP8429 is the 16-bit version, which I've used in the past on a 68010 design. Could you tell me where to look for that controller? Thanks in advance. Msg#: 8714 *INK* 10/17/88 11:00:08 From: CURT FRANKLIN To: WILLIAM BEEBE (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 8670 (PRESET AND FUTURE NEWS ITEMS) On the first item, I'd like to hear from you about an article proposal. You can send a proposal, and outline, or a completed article to me here on the BBS, or by USMail to: Curt Franklin Circuit Cellar INK 4 Park St. Vernon, CT 06066 On the second, I'll check with the author about availability of the parts used. It is our policy to only feature those parts that are readily available to the readers. Thanks, Curt Franklin Msg#: 8718 *INK* 10/17/88 13:44:14 From: WILLIAM BEEBE To: CURT FRANKLIN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 8714 (PRESET AND FUTURE NEWS ITEMS) An article proposal?????? What am *I* going to write about? All I want to do is help the cause --- provide testing or whatever else is needed. The only thing I write is resumes, and then I have an automated program that helps me do that. As for the parts, thanks, I'll keep looking on my end as well. Thank you for your prompt reply. Msg#: 8747 *INK* 10/17/88 21:12:49 From: WILLIAM BEEBE To: CURT FRANKLIN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 8714 (PRESET AND FUTURE NEWS ITEMS) After going home this evening and opening some bills, I have decided to take you up on the article proposal. Leave me a message explaining the Rules of the Game, and I'll work on my Grand Proposal(s). Msg#: 8776 *INK* 10/18/88 09:29:18 From: STEVE CIARCIA To: WILLIAM BEEBE (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 8747 (PRESET AND FUTURE NEWS ITEMS) The "rules of the game" are here in the Circuit Cellar INK section. Look for the heading "author's guide". Anyone contemplating writing for CC INK should read this. --Steve Msg#: 8779 *INK* 10/18/88 09:32:54 From: CURT FRANKLIN To: WILLIAM BEEBE (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 8747 (PRESET AND FUTURE NEWS ITEMS) Just to echo what Steve said, our Author's Guide is here in the "Circuit Cellar INK Information" section. If, after you read it, you have any questions, please feel free to leave me mail or give me a call. I'll look forward to seeing your proposal. Thanks, Curt Franklin Msg#: 8809 *INK* 10/18/88 21:55:01 From: WILLIAM BEEBE To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 8776 (PRESET AND FUTURE NEWS ITEMS) To you and Curt: will do. Msg#: 8689 *INK* 10/17/88 01:08:10 From: PHIL CHADWICK To: SYSOP (Rcvd) Subj: BBS DISKS MADE AVAIL With disks now available for BBS msgs and software as announced in INK, in PC format, how do we read root and directories when all we have is S180FX running under CP/M???? Msg#: 8697 *INK* 10/17/88 08:38:32 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: PHIL CHADWICK (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 8689 (BBS DISKS MADE AVAIL) The messages on disk are all contained in straight ASCII text files and all reside in the root directory. Nothing fancy here. To read them with an SB180FX, you need to get XBIOS from X-Systems or Micromint, plus DosDisk from Plu*Perfect. DosDisk also reads subdirectories, so things don't necessarily have to be in the root directory. The decision to make things available only on 360K IBM PC disk is because most machines these days, even CP/M systems, have some means of reading that format disk. And since 99% of the people ordering the disk are going to have access to an IBM anyway, it's hardly worth it to try to provide support for 20 different disk formats. (I know; Mac people are a big exception. If things really take off, we'll consider Mac format. And Amiga format. And Atari format. Yikes.) Msg#: 8754 *INK* 10/18/88 00:11:21 From: PHIL CHADWICK To: KEN DAVIDSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 8697 (BBS DISKS MADE AVAIL) Many thanks. Where is Plu*Perfect located to obtain DosDisk??? Msg#: 8770 *INK* 10/18/88 09:10:28 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: PHIL CHADWICK (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 8754 (BBS DISKS MADE AVAIL) Contact Sage Microsystems East at (617) 965-3552. They market everything having to do with Z-System and Plu*Perfect Systems. Msg#: 8866 *INK* 10/19/88 23:30:48 From: PHIL CHADWICK To: KEN DAVIDSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 8770 (BBS DISKS MADE AVAIL) Many thanks again. You and TBBS have made my day!!! Msg#: 8925 *INK* 10/21/88 11:41:36 From: ANDY RAUER To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: SCHEMATICS (CAD) There is a specific reason for this message. Before I get into that, I would like to mention a few things. I just received my first copy of 'CIRCUIT CELLAR INK' yesterday. All it took was the turning of a few pages before I was assured that this was the magazine for me. I am an electronic designer with the Ontario Science Centre in Toronto, Canada. As such, we (our dept.) are required to come up with ingenious circuits to control some of our exhibits. Some of these can be very complex. Thus, the bright and ingenious ideas and circuits presented in the Circuit Cellar Ink are graciously applauded by us. I noticed in the Circuit Cellar Ink that all your schematics are generated with some type of schematic (CAD) editor like ORCAD. There are two items pertaining to this package which I would like to know. 1) The name of the schematic editor you are presently using. 2) Assuming that your schematic editor generates a standard ASCII netlist of the schematic, would it be possible for you to place the appropriate schematic files on the Cellar's BBS. This would enable myself (and others) to download and use these files with our own CAD system (EEIII) such that we could generate PCB's. Any files generated on our part could and would be uploaded to the Cellar BBS for anyone else to use. I believe an exchange as outlined above could be beneficial to all. ....Andy Rauer (CET) Msg#: 8966 *INK* 10/22/88 13:10:20 From: STEVE CIARCIA To: ANDY RAUER (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 8925 (SCHEMATICS (CAD)) Believe it or not, the Toronto Science Centre is one of my favorite places of all. I've been there a few times and intend to try to go again next summer/fall. I'd love to have an inside tour if you have the time. My kind of musuem! To answer your question, we use Schema (see small print on masthead page). If you have specific questions, they are best answered by Jeff Bachiochi or Ken (sysop). --Steve Msg#: 9164 *INK* 10/25/88 18:19:40 From: JIM MORSE To: ED NISLEY (Rcvd) Subj: PL513 ED, I AM TRYING TO RUN THE PL513 ON AN IBM M50, DOS 4.0, USING THE CODE FROM THIS BBS. I GET RETURN CODE 8. IF THE MODULE IS PLUGGED IN BUT NOT CONNECTED TO THE COMPUTER, THE LIGHT IS ALWAYS ON. WHEN I CONNECT IT (AFTER RUNNING X10DRIVE.COM, OF COURSE) IT IS ALWAYS OFF. I'VE CHECKED THE CABLE I MADE FOR CONTINUITY AND IT SEEMS OK - I CAN CHECK IT AGAIN. WHAT AM I DOING WRONG? HELP! - THANKS! Msg#: 9277 *INK* 10/27/88 23:00:33 From: ED NISLEY To: JIM MORSE (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 9164 (PL513) The IBM PC Tech Refs say that there could be up to four printer port addresses stashed at 0040:0000, with unused ports set to zero. So I wrote the code to start scanning downward from the fourth address for an installed port. If you've got two or three ports it'll use the highest numbered one, which I figured would probably be the one you wanted. If you have only one port, that's the one it'll wind up at. Well, come to find out that in PS/2 machines the fourth printer port address slot is marked "reserved" and, as you might guess, it's not zero any more... drek. You've got exactly the right fix, although you might want to start with slot 3 instead of 1 in case you jack in another printer at some point. I'll modify the code and upload a new version pronto. As far as X10 transmitters go, I really don't have any opinions. The only catch with the transceiver is that you've got to have a computer pretty much dedicated to X10 stuff. Your 50 seems like a pretty expensive way to skin the home control cat... Msg#: 9171 *INK* 10/25/88 21:06:36 From: JIM MORSE To: ED NISLEY (Rcvd) Subj: PL513 OK, MISTAKE ON MY PART. WHEN X10DRIVE.COM LOADS, IT SAYS IT'S USING PORT 4. WELL, I HAVE ONLY ONE PHYSICAL PRINTER PORT AND THAT'S #1. CAN YOU HELP ME WITH THIS? IF IT LOOKS AT THE RIGHT PORT, IT MIGHT HAVE A BETTER CHANCE OF WORKING. YOU CAN CALL ME AT WORK 603-752-4600 X2242 OR COLLECT AT HOME OK 603-752-7628, OR LEAVE MSG ON THIS BOARD. THANKS!!! Msg#: 9229 *INK* 10/26/88 21:19:43 From: JIM MORSE To: ED NISLEY (Rcvd) Subj: PL513 ED, I ALTERED THE X10DRIVE.ASM CODE TO START SEARCHING AT PORT 1 (I GUESS - I JUST CHANGED THE 4 TO A 1). IT SEEMS TO WORK. LET ME KNOW IF IT'S GOING TO CAUSE ANY PROBLEMS, OK? I WANT TO GET A MOTION DETECTOR, AND I WAS TOLD THE STANLEY IS BEST 'CAUSE IT SENDS X10 CODES. DO YOU AGREE WITH THIS? MAINLY I WANTED IT SO THE LIGHTS WILL COME ON WHEN I COME IN THE DRIVEWAY. OF COURSE WHEN THEY RELEASE THE 2-WAY INTERFACE, THEN I CAN HAVE THE COMPUTER TURN THEM OFF AFTER A SPECIFIED TIME, ETC. THANKS! Msg#: 9299 *INK* 10/28/88 05:42:11 From: STEVE SAMPSON To: ALL Subj: DSP 320 For those interested; there is a BBS for Texas Instruments Digital Signal Processor (DSP) chips. Requires registration for file access. Number is: 1-713-274-2323. Msg#: 9317 *INK* 10/28/88 10:34:55 From: DALE NASSAR To: KEN DAVIDSON (Rcvd) Subj: I/O SCHEMATICS Ken, I have been looking for schematics for XT or AT clone cards (in particular I/O ports, game ports, light pen, etc,) for a long time with no luck. I see in your INK article (#3) on X-10 modules you mention reference to a printer adapter schematic. Where can I look for detailed diagrams? Thanks --Dale Msg#: 9384 *INK* 10/30/88 09:12:44 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: DALE NASSAR (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 9317 (I/O SCHEMATICS) The IBM PC Reference Manual put out by IBM several years ago contains schematics for every board and piece of equipment IBM made for the PC line, including serial, parallel, and game port adapters. I don't know if you can still get the manual, but check with a local dealer. Msg#: 9323 *INK* 10/28/88 12:49:32 From: GARY LEAR To: SYSOP (Rcvd) Subj: EXCERPTS FROM BBS Ken, . I have only recently begun to use this BBS, but I have discovered it to be very addictive. I have a question concerning the excerpts in CCINK. When I tried to search for a specific msg# that appeared in the magazine, my request was ignored. Is this due to deletion of the file on your part or some idiotic error on mine :{ ? Thanks, and please feel free to move this to the general area if appropriate. . --Gary Msg#: 9387 *INK* 10/30/88 09:17:10 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: GARY LEAR (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 9323 (EXCERPTS FROM BBS) It depends on which issue contained the message. If it was from issue #1 or the first half of issue #2, those messages came from the old BBS, and very few were moved over here. If the message is from a later issue, then it may be that either the author or the recipient deleted the message. I haven't had to do any mass message purging yet, but we're already over the 5000 active message mark, so I may have to one of these days. Instead of doing an individual message retrieval from a specific message area, select the combined message areas and do a forward read starting a few messages before the one in question. If it is still posted, you'll definitely see it that way. Msg#: 9423 *INK* 10/31/88 02:37:15 From: GARY LEAR To: KEN DAVIDSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 9387 (EXCERPTS FROM BBS) Thanks for the quick response. --Gary Msg#: 9338 *INK* 10/28/88 20:55:38 From: ALLEN SPEER To: ANYONE Subj: TELEPHONE SECURITY DEVICE I need help designing a circuit that will answer a phone, ask the caller for a home phone number or code number, verify the number against a programmable list of numbers, and if a valid number, continue the ring through to a phone, if not a valid number give the caller another try and then if still invalid hang up. Anyone know of such a device or how to get this accomplished? Msg#: 9363 *INK* 10/29/88 10:29:26 From: BOB PADDOCK To: ALLEN SPEER (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 9338 (TELEPHONE SECURITY DEVICE) Such devices to exist; unfortinatly I have trown out all of my catalogs that had them in them. I think one of them was Mountain View West Secrity (Any one have an address?). Msg#: 9375 *INK* 10/29/88 19:33:59 From: ALEXANDER SCHNEIDER To: ALLEN SPEER (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 9338 (TELEPHONE SECURITY DEVICE) That device exists as an "electronic call screener" or some such. Alex Msg#: 9863 *INK* 11/09/88 16:20:09 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: ALLEN SPEER (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 9338 (TELEPHONE SECURITY DEVICE) I saw an ad for the device you're looking just a few days before your original message and I've been looking for it again ever since. I just found it. The description of the box matches what you describe almost word for word. It is called the Call Screener and is available for $159.95 from Life Force Technologies Ltd., P.O. Box 755, Basalt, CO 81621, (800) 922-3545. This place also has a night vision device similar to what others have been discussing here called the Night Penetrator System for a mere $7995.00. Msg#: 9958 *INK* 11/11/88 14:40:08 From: ALLEN SPEER To: KEN DAVIDSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 9863 (TELEPHONE SECURITY DEVICE) Thanks a lot for your help and dilligence! Msg#: 9345 *INK* 10/28/88 23:14:50 From: JIM REMINGTON To: KEN DAVIDSON (Rcvd) Subj: TW523 Dear Ken: I was interested by your article in ink describing the tw523. Two questions came up: what happens if the module receives a perfect first message, but then, when it decides to pass on the second to the programmer, encounters an error (dropped bits, etc.)? The second concerns the apparent necessity of transmitting all three pulses for a three phase system following each zero crossing. Is this really the case? Wouldn't one expect the third to be hard to receive on a single phase line? Msg#: 9389 *INK* 10/30/88 09:29:55 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: JIM REMINGTON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 9345 (TW523) The way it works is the TW523 sends the received code to the computer at the same time that the second repetition of the code is on the power line. It doesn't actually pass that repetition from the power line to the computer. They are just coincident. As for sending each bit three times, if all you're ever concerned about is a single-phase system, then there isn't any reason to send each bit three times. The modules are only sampling the power line at zero crossing, so two repetitions of each bit are always thrown away. Since it really doesn't cost that much to throw in the repeated bits, it's best to leave them in there to be sure of complete compatibility. Msg#: 9379 *INK* 10/29/88 21:15:46 From: VINSON NICHOLS To: INK Subj: SUBSCRIPTION I just found one of your journal ould like very much to have a subscription. I have been programing for about ten years and your journal is what I have been looking for to interface my pc to the outside worldCan you send my a subscription please! Vinson Nichols 7416 Colonail Dr. Fountain, Co. 80817 Thank You What I need to know is the price!!!!!! Msg#: 9398 *INK* 10/30/88 10:19:39 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: VINSON NICHOLS Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 9379 (SUBSCRIPTION) We can't start a subscription without some billing information from you. Complete details about how to get a subscription can be found in the Circuit Cellar INK Information section from the main menu. You can subscribe on-line here using either Visa or MasterCard. Checks and billed subscription orders should be sent to the address listed in the information section. Msg#: 9421 *INK* 10/31/88 01:04:19 From: RICHARD DOWLING To: SYSOP (Rcvd) Subj: POSSIBLE PROJECT How about a NTSC video to VGA analog RGB converter? The scan rate difference should make it a challange. I'm not much for BBS's but yours is very interesting. I called after receiving the first issue of CCI. Best, Richard Dowling Msg#: 9436 *INK* 10/31/88 08:41:58 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: RICHARD DOWLING (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 9421 (POSSIBLE PROJECT) Sounds good to me. When can you submit the first draft of the article? ;-) Msg#: 9508 *INK* 11/01/88 09:40:34 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: CURT FRANKLIN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 9504 (POSSIBLE PROJECT) Actually, I was kidding in my original message about asking when it would be done. That's what the smiley face ;-) was for. He's communicated to me privately that it was just a suggestion for a topic. Msg#: 9456 *INK* 10/31/88 09:57:12 From: STEVE CIARCIA To: ALL Subj: CC INK PARTY AT COMDEX While it is a bit late, we decided at the last minute to have a coctail party at COMDEX in Las Vegas. If you are going to be there you are welcome to come and press the flesh. We are anxious to meet our readers and advertisers. If you plan on attending, read the bulletins for time and details. --Steve Msg#: 9470 *INK* 10/31/88 19:17:00 From: CLIFF CORDES To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: INK love the ink, I trust you won't get new tires with my visa # send back issues because Mike Holland wants cause Mike Holland here in phx wants his copies back, watch out for bottle rockets, 2 liter is a vicious caliber thx if this is unreadable it is because the on-line editor is unusable ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Msg#: 9481 *INK* 11-01-88 02:02:05 From: DAVID WILLIAMS To: SYSOP (Rcvd) Subj: CC INK A couple of days ago, I asked about my CC Ink subscription. You said call Yankee and then you (at 875-2199). Remember, I had subscribed via BBS and got confirmation, I thought, the next day, in August. Well, Yankee said they didn't have me in the system, but they would start me with Sep/Oct. They didn't take a credit card number. I called you and talked to Mary Kane. She was nice, but said Sep/Oct was now back issue only, and it would cost $4 for the issue. Doesn't seen fair since I subscribed in time to start with that issue. The upshot is that I really want to be a subscriber and get issue 5 and 6, and 7 etc. The first 4 back issues I ordered the same day I subscribed, and received them immediately. Thanks for any help. DWW Msg#: 9505 *INK* 11-01-88 09:26:36 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: DAVID WILLIAMS (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 9481 (CC INK) We've discovered a miscommunication between here and our mailing list house, so your name never made it to them. We'll be sending you a copy of #5 at no charge and your subscription will start with #6. Sorry about the mix up. Msg#: 9483 *INK* 11-01-88 03:45:17 From: GARY LEAR To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 9455 (LASER WRITING) I have seen one of the scanners that I mentioned at work (large aerospace company). One of our senior scientists purchased it and told me the price, however he has made significant "round off" errors before. I believe he still has the unit and if so I will obtain a model number and try to confirm the price. It will probably take a week or so. --Gary Msg#: 9485 *INK* 11-01-88 03:57:42 From: JIM NELSON To: GARY LEAR (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 9427 (LASER WRITING) What are the model numbers on those products? For $40 what kind of repeat- ability can they offer? Msg#: 9487 *INK* 11-01-88 04:20:11 From: GARY LEAR To: JIM NELSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 9485 (LASER WRITING) I don't have very many specifics (please see my response to Steve), but I have seen the scanner running in the lab. It appeared to be a resonant type drive, so the repeatability should be fairly good. I was mostly interested in the scan position sensor at the time. The sensor and the associated processing should allow you to do whatever you want. --Gary Msg#: 9636 *INK* 11-04-88 04:50:43 From: GARY LEAR To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 9455 (LASER WRITING) Steve, I tracked down that laser scanner info that I promised you. The device is made by General Scanning (alot of people here seem to know the company, I am surprised no one has mentioned this part). The model number is IB2550A (I am uncertain if that is a "0" or a 'O') and it is indeed a dual voice coil, resonant type scanner. One of the coils is used for drive and the other is a sense coil. A drive electronics board is also included. Optically speaking, the scanner has a one inch square first surface mirror. Now for the potentially bad news, the gentleman that I borrowed it from thought it sold for $40 in quanity (perphaps 100 units) and $100 or so in singles. If enough of us are willing to buy one this may not matter. Since he was somewhat uncertain, I will attempt to verify the price and get back to you. --Gary P.S. Let me know if I can be of any help on your project. Msg#: 9508 *INK* 11-01-88 09:40:34 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: CURT FRANKLIN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 9504 (POSSIBLE PROJECT) Actually, I was kidding in my original message about asking when it would be done. That's what the smiley face ;-) was for. He's communicated to me privately that it was just a suggestion for a topic. Msg#: 9537 *INK* 11-01-88 22:10:35 From: EDWARD SCHRAM To: ALL Subj: MC68020 PROJECT Okay, coming over from the General Message area: How many readers would like to build a 68020 machine and have it around? If so what features would the majority like to see? . Post a message in general and the most liked features will be included. For starters all memory sizes will be words (32 bits) not bytes. . Current feature list: . 256k static ram . 128k eprom . 8k e2prom . 2 serial ports (rs-232) . 2 parallel ports . scsi interface . math coprocessor . 20mhz operation with no wait states in memory access. Msg#: 9549 *INK* 11-02-88 06:34:41 From: BOB PADDOCK To: EDWARD SCHRAM (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 9537 (MC68020 PROJECT) The hardware sounds interesting, but what software will be avaiable for it, and what operatiing system will it use? Msg#: 9557 *INK* 11-02-88 09:31:27 From: CURT FRANKLIN To: EDWARD SCHRAM (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 9537 (MC68020 PROJECT) Well, as editor of Circuit Cellar INK I'm certainly interested. Why don't you drop me some mail and let me know what you're planning. I will agree with an earlier message that mentioned software. Either some sort of UNIX derivitive or OS-9 would be fine (hell, CP/M 68K would be better than nothing!), but any project of this scope that requires the builder to do a ``roll-your-own'' operating system is going to have limited appeal. Curt Franklin Msg#: 9594 *INK* 11-03-88 04:33:26 From: GARY LEAR To: EDWARD SCHRAM (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 9537 (MC68020 PROJECT) I would like to see the capability at least of co-processors being added. Specifically, graphics (TI's would be nice), sound, and of course math. I heartily agree with the other comments however, software is critical even if you want the system for a number cruncher/data acquisition/lab controller like I do. Good luck with your project! --Gary Msg#: 9670 *INK* 11-05-88 03:25:16 From: KEVEN PITTSINGER To: EDWARD SCHRAM (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 9537 (MC68020 PROJECT) I'D go for one. Especially if you could get it to run OS9/68000 on it. the system I'm using right now is a Rradio Sshaft CoCo 3, 512K, maxxed out. I'd also like to see any 6809 based stuph anyone comes up with. Keven GEnie: JAMSTAR Msg#: 9709 *INK* 11-05-88 23:25:20 From: STEVE SAMPSON To: EDWARD SCHRAM (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 9537 (MC68020 PROJECT) Rather than OS9 or CP/M you might look into Minix. It just came out for the Atari 68000 ST. This route would be cheaper, as well as providing source code. OS9 is super expensive on a 68k chip, not to mention the C Compiler expense (>$300 bucks). Msg#: 9768 *INK* 11-07-88 14:10:10 From: NEIL CHERRY To: KEVEN PITTSINGER (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 9670 (MC68020 PROJECT) 1 more vote for OS9 ( I know the system pretty well). But whats more important is another vote for 020. I just bought one and a 68881. NJC Msg#:10011 *INK* 11-13-88 00:01:27 From: KEN HOWELL To: EDWARD SCHRAM (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 9537 (MC68020 PROJECT) Chock up one more vote. You might *consider* the 68030, because it will start to appear in reasonable quantities soon, and the real appeal of a lot of "roll you own" projects is to get in on the cutting edge. As far as the other specifics, I'd like to see Unix or OS-9 or some other multitasking OS. After using an Amiga for a couple of years, I can hardly stand to put up with single user, singletasking machines. --Ken. Msg#:11560 *INK* 12-16-88 07:50:51 From: BOB PADDOCK To: STEVE SAMPSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 9709 (MC68020 PROJECT) Where can I find info on Minix? Msg#: 9573 *INK* 11-02-88 14:59:58 From: JR WEAVER To: DALE NASSAR (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 5748 (HOLOGRAPHY) I am in the middle of designing a parallel computer using the components of the Mandelbrot engine. I would like to take a crack at implementing your algorithm on my machine. Could cut your computation time down considerably! Msg#: 9732 *INK* 11-06-88 22:25:10 From: DALE NASSAR To: JR WEAVER (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 9573 (HOLOGRAPHY) Sounds good to me. This thing takes forever to run on an ordinary computer. In the next few weeks I am planning to document all of this (hopefully for an Ink article). The program is almost as short as the Mandelbrot routine. I also need to find more spare time to work on this stuff A large fast plotter would also be desirable. A DMP-42 took 27 hours to plot a hologram of five points! I hope the supercomputer can spit out data of complex holograms as fast as the plotter can take it. I would really like to build one too. --Dale Msg#:11912 *INK* 12-26-88 00:27:11 From: DALE NASSAR To: JR WEAVER Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 9573 (HOLOGRAPHY) How is the parallel computer project doing? --Dale Msg#: 9586 *INK* 11-03-88 00:37:28 From: BILL URINOSKI To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: INK SNAFU Perhaps this is not the proper forum for this, but I have a problem with my subscription to CCI that has not been resolved since I purchased same at your booth at the Trenton Computer Festival last April. I received Vol 1 Issues 1 & 2 at that time and paid for my subscription in cash. I noticed sometime later that Issue 3 was on the stands and I had not yet received my sub. copy, so I called your sub. svc. # and left a msg on your ans machine, in the meantime, I purchased Iss. 3 from the stand (B. Dalton - Software etc.). Murphy came to the rescue, and, of course, I received Iss. 3 in an envelope with a handwritten label. I ignored Iss. 4 on the stands when I saw it there and, sure enough, Murphy showed up and I never received my sub. issue. Obviously, when Iss. 5 came out on the stands, I grabbed (bought) a copy, and, hoping to circumvent another proof of Murphy's Law, I am writing this msg. Score to date: I have Issue 1, 2, 3 (2 copies), NO Issue 4, Issue 5 from the newstand, and in response to this, probably another V1 Issue 5 forthcoming. I am not really complaining, and I can only guess as to the extent that confusion reigns when a new periodical publication is brought to market (and perhaps the degree of magnification that confusion experiences when the pub is a company's first), but I really would like Issue 4 and Issue 6 when it is available. And perhaps you could be kind enough to adjust my subscription as you see fit. I have been an avid reader of your column since your early excursions to the Milford Fronton (Byte), and I think this new effort fills a void that most people didn't even know existed (Circuit Cellar, INK). And if we can get this little snafu straightened out, I certainly intend to continue to extend my subscription - if not, I'll continue to buy at the stands. In any event, my name, addr, etc are as follows: William B. Urinoski 55 Deer Run Watchung, NJ 07060 I would appreciate it if you could get someone to check this out and perhaps have them reply to me via CCI BBS. I can't provide subscriber # as I have never recv'd an issue by mail other than the one with the handwritten label and no number was on that. I apologise for the use of this forum for this purpose, but I really did want to bring this matter to your attention. Thank you for your attention. Bill. Msg#: 9606 *INK* 11-03-88 09:15:59 From: STEVE CIARCIA To: BILL URINOSKI Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 9586 (INK SNAFU) Don't sweat it. We'll fix it and Ken will get back to you. --Steve Msg#: 9609 *INK* 11-03-88 09:34:57 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: BILL URINOSKI Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 9586 (INK SNAFU) Your name is in the subscriber list, but with a city of Plainfield rather than Watchung. The street address and ZIP are OK, though. We're fixing your address, sending you issue #4, and adjusting your subscription to start with #6. Sorry for the mix up. Msg#: 9650 *INK* 11-04-88 20:41:51 From: DANNY LAMB To: SYSOP (Rcvd) Subj: DDT51 ? will there be any ddt51 pc boards avail and can i get micrimint cat Danny Lamb 9130 Barneveld st spring valley ca 92077 thanx dan Msg#: 9746 *INK* 11-07-88 08:41:01 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: DANNY LAMB (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 9650 (DDT51) At this point there are no plans for making DDT-51 PC boards available, but that could change in the future. I'll get a catalog out to you. Msg#:10108 *INK* 11-15-88 18:12:51 From: DANNY LAMB To: KEN DAVIDSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 9746 (DDT51) Ken thank you if the DDt-51 becomes avail I know three persons here that will want one out here again thanks Dan Msg#: 9682 *INK* 11-05-88 10:22:29 From: EDWARD SCHRAM To: CURT FRANKLIN (Rcvd) Subj: 68020 SPECS Here goes: . . Operating System: OS9 / CPM68k . CPU: MC68020 @ 20mhz. . MATH: MC68881 . VIDEO: TI34010 or MMI 95C80 . Serial: HD64180 or MC68HC11 (more likely) . Parallel: MC68705 . Keyboard: IBM PC/XT Interface . Memory: 256K x 32 static . 256K x 32 eprom . 8K x 32 e2prom (oprional maybe, nice features for lab) . A/D Convertor: MC10319 (for video capture perhaps) . Supplied software: . 68K Bios for CPM . OS9 drivers . A/D sample operations . . DISK: SCSI (I)(II) hard disk I/F . floppy disk I/F or WD1990(?) for 5 1/4. Msg#: 9759 *INK* 11-07-88 09:42:16 From: CURT FRANKLIN To: EDWARD SCHRAM (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 9682 (68020 SPECS) Looks good to me. If you really want to do a series on this puppy, why don't you give me a call (203/875-2199) so that we can discuss details. Thanks, Curt Franklin Msg#:10012 *INK* 11-13-88 00:02:43 From: KEN HOWELL To: EDWARD SCHRAM (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 9682 (68020 SPECS) One comment -- will there be expansion cabability for more ram boards/other stuff? --Ken. Msg#: 9683 *INK* 11-05-88 10:25:45 From: EDWARD SCHRAM To: ALL Subj: MC68020 SOFTWARE SUPPORT Anyone interested, or who has previously written drivers for CPM 68k and or OS-9 and would like to help write the drivers for a 68020 please let me know. I will be able to supply address and protocol information for the software. . Hardware will be interrupt driven and fifo driven with lots of intelligance in the I/O devices. Msg#: 9769 *INK* 11-07-88 14:14:18 From: NEIL CHERRY To: EDWARD SCHRAM (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 9683 (MC68020 SOFTWARE SUPPORT) I've written drivers for OS9/6809 what do you need and how can I help? NJC u(Contact me at 201 -668 - 6029 9-5 work or 201 238 4796 or write to Neil Cherry 17-8 Civic Center Drive East Brunswick N.J. 08816 Msg#: 9800 *INK* 11-08-88 09:05:34 From: CURT FRANKLIN To: ALL Subj: WRITE FOR CCINK Here at Circuit Cellar INK, we're already looking well into 1989 for editorial material. Opportunities exist for writing in a number of technical areas: . Digital Signal Processors . Implementing Neural networks . Serial Communications (RS-232/422/485) . The ISA Bus . The EISA Bus . NuBus . STD Bus In addition, we are beginning to plan specific themes for the coming year. Currently proposed themes include: . Speech Technology . Computer Music/MIDI . Games (Hardware and Software) . Video . Robotics . The Electronic House . CAD/CAM . Digital Communications If you are interested in writing application development articles or tutorials in any of these subjects, please leave me mail on this system (Curt Franklin), call me (203/875-2199), or send me USMail at: . Curtis Franklin, Jr. . Editor in chief . Circuit Cellar INK . 4 Park St. . Vernon, CT 06066 Msg#: 9817 *INK* 11-08-88 20:55:33 From: MIKE GALLAGHER To: SYSOP (Rcvd) Subj: ARCHIVE ERROR MESSAGES I'm having trouble with successful un-arcing of two files from the INK files. They are wxrdr10.arc and sonar.arc. I am using the program pkxarc to un-archive them. It gets part way through the arc'ed file, then starts giving the message "error in archive" for several of the included files. Any suggestions? - Thanks, Mike Msg#: 9849 *INK* 11-09-88 13:51:39 From: MIKE GALLAGHER To: INK SUBSCRIPTION Subj: INK SUBSCRIPTION Is there a 3 year price break for subscription? Is the subscription billable? What issue contains the weather radar stuff? Msg#: 9863 *INK* 11-09-88 16:20:09 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: ALLEN SPEER (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 9338 (TELEPHONE SECURITY DEVICE) I saw an ad for the device you're looking just a few days before your original message and I've been looking for it again ever since. I just found it. The description of the box matches what you describe almost word for word. It is called the Call Screener and is available for $159.95 from Life Force Technologies Ltd., P.O. Box 755, Basalt, CO 81621, (800) 922-3545. This place also has a night vision device similar to what others have been discussing here called the Night Penetrator System for a mere $7995.00. Msg#: 9958 *INK* 11-11-88 14:40:08 From: ALLEN SPEER To: KEN DAVIDSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 9863 (TELEPHONE SECURITY DEVICE) Thanks a lot for your help and dilligence! Msg#: 9872 *INK* 11-09-88 18:24:14 From: MIKE GALLAGHER To: KEN DAVIDSON (Rcvd) Subj: WEATHER-FAX o.k. I'll look at that section. Suggestion for similar topic: Weather maps and other stuff is available by radio from various sources. Most of the "packet controller" hardware available will recieve it. However, manipulating the images, or just fooling around with them after capture can't be done (yet) - noise reduction, zoom, and that sort of stuff. Be an interesting partner to the satellite weather articles. Msg#: 9923 *INK* 11-10-88 23:07:30 From: KEN HOWELL To: KEN DAVIDSON (Rcvd) Subj: SURVEY Ken -- If I've filled out the on-line survey, is there any reason for my to mail back the survey I got in the mail? I will if there's a need, but don't want to wast your thirty cents or whatever it is. --Ken. Msg#: 9935 *INK* 11-11-88 08:18:08 From: CURT FRANKLIN To: KEN HOWELL (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 9923 (SURVEY) Ken - Even if you filled out the survey here, *PLEASE RETURN THE SURVEY YOU RECEIVED IN THE MAIL*. The BBS survey and mail survey are being treated as two totally separate events, and we're trying to get all the feedback we can from the mail. Thanks for asking, and for participating. Curt Franklin Editor in chief Circuit Cellar INK Msg#:10010 *INK* 11-12-88 23:53:20 From: KEN HOWELL To: CURT FRANKLIN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 9935 (SURVEY) Be glad to spend your money on the postage, but it seems a little odd to me. I mean, I'm not going to remember the commemnts I made here when I fill out the one that was mailed, and I'll likely put a different answer down. Wouldn't that affect your sampling? I'll send it back, but is seems a little odd to me.... --Ken. Msg#:10062 *INK* 11-14-88 09:44:13 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: KEN HOWELL (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 10010 (SURVEY) It would definitely affect the sampling if we combined the on-line answers with the mailed answers. It can even go as far as your state of mind when filling out the survey. While on-line, you're likely to be in a rush, so might not think about a question as long as you should. Or perhaps since the question is on the screen instead of on a printed page, you may not have read it completely or missed a possible response. Most of all, the response group from the on-line survey is going to be a self-selected group who all use modems and this BBS. The mailed survey will give a better cross section of all who subscribe. I think the issue of your answers being different goes back to state of mind. You're basically the same person day to day, so the overall gist of your two survey results will be basically the same. How an answer is phrased really isn't much of an issue. Msg#:10116 *INK* 11-16-88 01:09:35 From: KEN HOWELL To: KEN DAVIDSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 10062 (SURVEY) Sounds reasonable. One thing you mentioned I would disagree with -- ever since this board became PC Pursuitable, I haven't been real distressed over the time. It's just a local call for me -- Boise Idaho to Connecticut for the cost of a call across the street. Great stuff. --Ken. Msg#: 9994 *INK* 11-12-88 14:56:12 From: SEAN ADKINS To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: LASER SCANNING Dear Steve: I have just subscribed to INK, and in the copy which have read (which is what prompted me to subscribe) I noticed a letter in which laser scanning was mentioned. You indicated that you might consider a future project on this idea and I thought I would pass along a book title which might be helpful: Marshall, Gerald F. Laser Beam Scanning Marcel Dekker, Inc. 1985, New York, Ny I am interested in electro-optics, both for film recording and for laser projection, and this book is a source of fairly technical information about galvo. scanners and other techniques. Thank you. Sean Adkins Msg#:10239 *INK* 11-20-88 13:36:00 From: STEVE CIARCIA To: SEAN ADKINS (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 9994 (LASER SCANNING) Thanks for the interest. Curt and I are trying to find a laser scanning project, so hang tight. --Steve Msg#:10001 *INK* 11-12-88 16:40:27 From: DALE REID To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: DAYTON,OHIO Steve. I was just looking at my schedule for the enext year, and remembered when you were just getting going on subscriptions, and I promised to take a bunch of order cards to Dayton. Unfortunately timing didn't get on as I hoped, and we missed connections. Do you have enough people now (perish the thought) or would you like some volunteers to take a handful of cards and give to interested hams? Did yo ask about the price of a table to set up a booth? I have a friend who wrote a package for computers, and i CANNOT believe the incredible price for even a 1/3 page ad in PC Magazine, not colored, or anything! No wonder those publishers like to keep their subscriptions up. No doubt it costs a lot in both your time and $ to promote the cellar, and I c ertainly don't want to take away from your inventing time. Let me know if you want some cards passed out, or if yo set up a booth, where it is so I can stop by and renew. Say, what about renewing? When are the charter subs up? How much is next year? When are you going to every month? Dale Msg#:10061 *INK* 11-14-88 09:32:41 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: DALE REID (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 10001 (DAYTON,OHIO) Steve is out at Comdex all this week, so a reply won't be coming until next week. I can tell you that Steve is interested in exposure at Dayton, whether through our going or through giving you some cards and press kits. I'm sure he'll be back to you with some ideas. You should be getting a renewal notice any time now. How often is it you subscribe to a magazine and don't start hearing that your subscription is about to expire 10 months before the expiration date? The price will be the same. Current hopes are for going monthly by 1990, perhaps sooner. It's a big undertaking once we finally go that route, though. Msg#:10240 *INK* 11-20-88 13:49:20 From: STEVE CIARCIA To: DALE REID (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 10001 (DAYTON,OHIO) We'd love it if you would pass out cards regardless if we have something planned for Dayton (we don't yet). DOn't worry about renewals. Our fulfilment agency (Yankee magazine) screwed up and hasn't been sending bills or renewals (they claim no one told them to and we asked what service they were supposedly charging us for!). Renewals went out last Friday and you should be receiving them this week if your time is up. For the short term, we still will only be offering one year renewals at $14.95 because we hope to go monthly sometime between July and December of '89. At that time we will offer multiyear subscriptions. Also, INK will have a 4-color cover in January (Tinney will be around with INK for next few years at least. BYTE dropped his contract with the December '88 issue). --Steve PS Remind me when you need the subscription info or do you just want a pile of that junk now. Also, anyone else out there who is going to a computer club meeting, class, or show, etc and who thinks that CC INK would be received well, don't hesitate to leave a message here for Curt or me or Ken and we'll send cards and promotional materal for you to pass out. Msg#:10393 *INK* 11-24-88 08:01:43 From: GARY LEAR To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 10240 (DAYTON,OHIO) Steve, I have been asked to be a guest speaker at a local college next semester. I will be presenting to a computer group that has made entries in the IEEE MicroMouse contest. I think such a group would be an ideal place for circulating info on CC INK. Please send me the info anytime before January. Thanks. --Gary Msg#:10511 *INK* 11-27-88 13:33:31 From: STEVE CIARCIA To: GARY LEAR (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 10393 (DAYTON,OHIO) Leave me a name, address, and phone when you want to be contacted and I ask Rose to get you whatever you need at the time. --Steve Msg#:10536 *INK* 11-28-88 06:29:29 From: GARY LEAR To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 10511 (DAYTON,OHIO) Gary L. Lear 2715 Vanderbilt Lane Unit A. Redondo Beach, CA 90278 (213) 379-7495 I need the info in time for the upcoming semester. I would like to have everything by January, since the actual date of my talk has not yet been determined. BTW, I have some additional info on the scanners that I mentioned earlier, and I expect complete specs sometime this week. Congradulations on your recent marriage. Regards, Gary. Msg#:10551 *INK* 11-28-88 09:09:07 From: STEVE CIARCIA To: GARY LEAR (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 10536 (DAYTON,OHIO) Thanks, Rose will be in touch with you. --Steve Msg#:10044 *INK* 11-13-88 22:03:48 From: EDWARD SCHRAM To: ALL Subj: 68020 / 030 BOARD Okay, the 030 will fit in the 020 socket with the addition of a few jumpers. Probably make a piggy back board with the new socket to old. . OS9 wins over UNIX due to cost. Remember this is an "expirement for beginners" not an office machine for the Fortune 500. Some moderation will have to be used. Actually MINIX does sound good but I don't have the info for it/ . . As for the "CUTTING EDGE". /\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\ \ Chip Specs .................... / / \ \/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/ . 68020 at 16.7 to 20 mhz 68128 STATIC RAMS AT 75NS 256K (1MBYTE) SRAM 27C101G EPROMS * 8 = 128K (1MBYTE) EPROM . 4 EPROMS CAN BE REPLACED WITH SRAM = 1.5 MEG 5 PAL DEVICES (16R4, 20L8, 20L10 DEVICES) LC5380 SCSI CONTROLLER AMD/MMI 95C80 QUAD PIXEL CONTROLLER 1KBYTE FIFO BASED SERIAL AND PARALLEL PORTS . SERIAL PORTS ARE 68HC11 MICROS . PARALLEL PORT IS 68705 MICRO . FIFOS ARE IDT7202 OR TMS SN74ACT7202 AND SOME MISC STUFF THROWN IN FOR GOOD MEASURE. . Msg#:10046 *INK* 11-13-88 23:30:39 From: STEVE SAMPSON To: EDWARD SCHRAM (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 10044 (68020 / 030 BOARD) How much does OS9/68020 cost now? I tried getting it for my GMX 020 board and they wanted close to $1000 with a C Compiler. Minix on the other hand is only $80.00. Course Minix implementation would start at a lower level due to it's being designed for an Atari ST. Or are you considering OS9/68000? Good luck, Steve. Msg#:10106 *INK* 11-15-88 17:54:29 From: BOB LAWSON To: SUBSCRIPTION DEPT Subj: RENEWAL OF SUBSCRIPTION I have not received a request for renewal of my CC INK subscription. Is this an oversight or is the mailman reading my CC INK? I don't want to miss a copy because of late renewal. Msg#:10126 *INK* 11-16-88 08:46:00 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: BOB LAWSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 10106 (RENEWAL OF SUBSCRIPTION) Renewal notices should be mailing any day now. We won't let your subscription lapse. The last thing we need is for a big chunk of our subscribers to just disappear. Msg#:10249 *INK* 11-20-88 15:27:55 From: BOB LAWSON To: KEN DAVIDSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 10126 (RENEWAL OF SUBSCRIPTION) Thanks, just wanted to be sure. Msg#:10131 *INK* 11-16-88 11:24:21 From: LARRY YOUNKINS To: KEN DAVIDSON (Rcvd) Subj: IMAGEWISE/PC Ken, How about a "preview of coming attractions" for the ImageWise/PC? Thanks, Larry Younkins Msg#:10134 *INK* 11-16-88 13:10:27 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: LARRY YOUNKINS (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 10131 (IMAGEWISE/PC) Well, let's see. The first of a three-part article will be appearing in issue #7 (Jan/Feb '89) of INK written by Ed Nisley. The board is a standard size IBM PC expansion board and can be used in any PC compatible. It has four jacks on the back: Video in, Video in monitor, Video out, and Overlay out. It will digitize to 256x244x8 (256 levels of grey) and will display the same. Frame rate is limited by bus speed. On an AT, you can digitize about 10 frames per second. Since you'll run out of memory real fast at that rate, that should be plenty fast. Pictures can be stored to standard PCX files. The latest PC Paintbrush (I think that's the one) allows you to edit pictures containing the full 256 levels of grey, so you'll be able to capture a picture, edit it, save it, print it, and redisplay it while keeping the 256 levels of grey intact. The overlay capability allows you to superimpose a digitized picture onto live video. A few shortcuts were taken here, so it doesn't produce studio-quality overlays, but should be fun to play with. We still haven't priced it out, so don't bother asking. This is one board where we defined what it would do, then spent the money to make it do what we wanted, rather than compromise on features to make it fit a price range. By the way, software (beyond the low-level stuff Ed is doing) is being done by Hogware, who wrote ZIP for the original ImageWise. It is a slick program that is all menu driven and has around 30 picture operations (AND, OR, edge detect, histogram, etc.), 20 display modes (EGA, EEGA, and VGA), and 10 or 12 printer modes (true halftone printing on a laser printer). Msg#:10147 *INK* 11-16-88 21:33:31 From: SAM REYNOLDS To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: MAC II PROJECTS We got our first copy of INK today and are really impressed. It's much like Byte Magazine from the old days. I think there must be some other readers who would like to see a project series about interfacing to the NuBus in the Mac II. I'd really like to see something about prototyping using the TI NuBus controller chip set in the Mac II environment. There are a number of functions which we'd like to have available and which are pretty easy to implement, but I don't feel up to pioneering on the NuBus. Surely there is an author with some experience with the NuBus who could lead the way. Comments, anyone? Msg#:10244 *INK* 11-20-88 14:10:39 From: STEVE CIARCIA To: SAM REYNOLDS Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 10147 (MAC II PROJECTS) Curt has been actively seeking MAC II projects and there will also be a article specifically describing the technical aspects of NuBus. Stay tuned. Regarding the similarity of CC INK to BYTE at its peak, it is purely intentional :-) As I mention in my next editorial (issue #6) the key BYTE staff people at that time are all at CC INK now (publisher, financial, circulation, cover, and editorial). How can we loose with that combination? Besides, we have been given the ultimate vote of confidence from McGraw-Hill BYTE. They NOW consider us competitors!!! :-) --Steve Msg#:10337 *INK* 11-22-88 22:05:10 From: MARK BALCH To: SYSOP (Rcvd) Subj: INK SUBSCRIPTION CONFLICTS I sent in a reply-card to subscribe to INK about a month or so ago. I got my first issue and when I last logged on here, you said to subscribe on-line. Now Here is the problem (or should I say conflict), the on-line subscription says NOT to register HERE if I already did via mail. I am confused and don't want to loose my subscription. On the reply card, I wrote 'Bill-Me'. Will I be billed via mail? Thanks. Mark Msg#:10350 *INK* 11-23-88 08:37:50 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: MARK BALCH (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 10337 (INK SUBSCRIPTION CONFLICTS) If you sent in a card marked "Bill Me" and you've received an issue, then it appears your subscription went through all right and you should be receiving a bill. Subscribing on-line is just one option, not a necessity. If you haven't received issue #6 by mid-December, raise a flag and we'll check into it. Msg#:10427 *INK* 11-25-88 13:14:30 From: DAVID MILLER To: CURT FRANKLIN (Rcvd) Subj: AMEX I hope y'all will consider setting up to accept American Express on-line. Many of us prefer it over Visa/MC, and it is so convenient.. however, you can be SURE I and/or the company I work for (Phipps Broadcasting, Inc.), will be sending you a subscription order by mail this week. Circuit Cellar INK is like the answer to a prayer! The only change we'd like to see is for the magazine to grow. It's the first magazine I've seen that was for the folks like me who have to combine hardware and software. Not just a few articles, but the WHOLE THING!!! WONDERFUL!!! Count on us to be subscribers for as long as you're in circulation. Msg#:10568 *INK* 11-28-88 10:54:17 From: CURT FRANKLIN To: DAVID MILLER (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 10427 (AMEX) Well, David, I'm glad you like the magazine. We're working on growing, so that we can give readers even more of the information they want, and we're committed to maintaining a technical focus. Thanks for the words of encouragement, and welcome to the CCINK readership. Thanks, Curt Franklin Msg#:10428 *INK* 11-25-88 13:18:43 From: DAVID MILLER To: SYSOP (Rcvd) Subj: BACK ISSUES Is there a system whereby we may purchase back issues? The educational value of your magazine seems tremendous, and I'd like them all in my library. Msg#:10479 *INK* 11-26-88 22:48:25 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: DAVID MILLER (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 10428 (BACK ISSUES) Go to the INK information section from the main menu to find out how to get back issues. We just ran out of issues 1, 2, and 3, so you won't be able to completely fill your library. New subscriptions currently start with issue #7, where issues 4, 5, and 6 are available as back issues. (And for any subscribers who are wondering about issue #6, it should start mailing sometime next week.) Msg#:10429 *INK* 11-25-88 13:25:31 From: DAVID MILLER To: CURT FRANKLIN (Rcvd) Subj: RADAR/PC-EYE Say, I recently developed a color weather radar (or any video, for that matter) distribution system for the IBM-PC which utilized mostly commercial software (IBM's Storyboard, SuperKey, and Relay Gold, and a few pieces of homebrew stuff for control and automation, utilizing the Chorus PC-Eye board ($500). It'll do color beautifully. Does that sound like something y'all might be interested in? Distribution is by telephone line on a "call in" basis. Msg#:10450 *INK* 11-26-88 05:46:41 From: STEVE SAMPSON To: DAVID MILLER (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 10429 (RADAR/PC-EYE) Is this tied to a color weather radar? I'm researching for a radio station a system that will tie in to the NWS using a PC display (EGA). The software isn't that hard, but getting NWS to let me hook up experimental hardware is another story (smile). What's your application? Msg#:10569 *INK* 11-28-88 10:55:56 From: CURT FRANKLIN To: DAVID MILLER (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 10429 (RADAR/PC-EYE) Why don't you send me an outline or a detailed proposal for an article, and we'll see where we can go from there. It sound interesting so far... Thanks, Curt Franklin Msg#:10998 *INK* 12-05-88 15:42:55 From: DAVID MILLER To: STEVE SAMPSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 10450 (RADAR/PC-EYE) Yes, it's tied to the color weather radar distributed in our television station (WCTV-CBS). Actually, though, any video will do. It's a simple combination of the Chorus PC-Eye, IBM's Storyboard, Relay Gold, and a few files written to automate it all (except the automation Superkey would do). Nothing to it. However, when we called around looking for such a thing, {t didn't seem to be quite available except at high cost. Our application was non-existent.. we just play a lot. We have one of those outstanding Chief Engineers who believes in learning by playing. Msg#:10999 *INK* 12-05-88 15:44:52 From: DAVID MILLER To: CURT FRANKLIN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 10569 (RADAR/PC-EYE) Okay. I have to finish a current project (replace a Mosely MRC-2 with a PC) and then I have a program Rainbow will want. As soon as I finish those, I'll do that. It's a really simple thing, but those who have a use for it should enjoy it. Msg#:11158 *INK* 12-08-88 15:22:20 From: JOHN ZIMA To: DAVID MILLER Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 10429 (RADAR/PC-EYE) Saw your note about the radar/pc-eye and capturing weather radar pictures on your pc. I am trying a hardware implimentation to do that, but your idea seams more elegant. Do you have something written up on the subject? I'd prefer to program than build something such as this. I have a local number that has the data available. Thanks. JFZ Msg#:10452 *INK* 11-26-88 07:31:00 From: MARK FISHER To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 9015 (LASER WRITING) I noticed that you logged onto our BBS yesterday. Not much there, but it's a start. As far as doing a project on laser writing for INK, sure. Just let me know what needs to be done, and I'm sure I can provide something interesting for your readers. Regarding the IR transmissive plastic, I usually us glass filters in my systems so I don't have a source handy. I will, however, check and see what I can find for you during the week. I just wanted to let you know that of all the "electronic magazines", I find INK by far the most stimulating and informative. Good luck and many successes in your endeavor! Mark Msg#:10474 *INK* 11-26-88 17:36:28 From: DALE REID To: ALL USERS Subj: WEATHER SAT RECEPTION I have heard that one of the GOES satelites has reduced its power on downlink by 10 dB recentlly. That would seem a problem in antenna design or preamp selection for those of us just looking for stuff to start reception. ANyone with experience out there that knows for sure? If it is down that much, does it affect the quality of the images? Comments? Dale Msg#:10577 *INK* 11-28-88 15:34:24 From: BJ GLEASON To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: TRS-80 VOXBOX hi! I think you mag is great. I got a hold of a TRS-80 VOXBOX voice recognition unit at a flea market, took it apart, and hooked it up to the PC. The mod is just some jumpers and traces, and the rest is in software. If you think your readers would be interrested in this, i could write it up and send it along with the software... Msg#:10597 *INK* 11-28-88 21:16:00 From: JIM MORSE To: ANYBODY Subj: TW523 WHEN CAN WE EXPECT TO SEE CODE RELATING TO THIS FOR THE IBM? Msg#:10630 *INK* 11-29-88 08:51:41 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: JIM MORSE (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 10597 (TW523) You're not likely to see it come from me (anytime soon, anyway). To do code for the TW523 the right way, it really should be interrupt driven so it can run in the background. Otherwise the processor is completely tied up watching for codes to come in from the power line. And the only way to tie the TW523 into the interrupts is through the bus. I have a BCC bus interface and background software working with a BCC180 on my system at home now, but I don't see us doing an IBM PC bus interface in the near future. Msg#:10655 *INK* 11-29-88 14:37:43 From: JIM MORSE To: KEN DAVIDSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 10630 (TW523) Ahh, OK. Hmmm. Can't "we" do something interrupt driven in C? If not, I guess Assembler? Or not possible? I wasn't clear whether it was impossible or difficult or not worth doing. At any rate sounds like this BCC180 or the like is the way to go, eh? Now, can I have a temperature sensor reading into the BCC? How do I do that? I want to use it for more efficient control of my thermostat. I have the PL513 doing it now but I thought it would be "neat" if I could collect periodic readings on inside and outside temperature and then would know how long it takes the house to heat up under different conditions (windy days too?) and so could know JUST how long before I come home does it have to be turned on so it is 72F when I walk in the door. Some of this stuff not totally essential but sure is interesting. How about using one of those infrared controls like for my stereo to control dimming my lights also? Can do? I asked Ed about this too. Thanks for the information and assistance........ Jim Msg#:10700 *INK* 11-30-88 07:25:59 From: GARY LEAR To: JIM MORSE (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 10655 (TW523) The thermostat sounds like a description of a self-contained unit that I designed for a consulting job a few years ago. It is not at all difficult to write an interrupt driven routine in Turbo Pascal 4.0 or better. Reading temperatures can be as simple as using the game port and thermistors or as elaborate as using LM34's and a multiplexed A/D (ADC0808 is cheap and easy to use). Let me know if you would like any help, or maybe we could do an article together. Regards, Gary Msg#:10704 *INK* 11-30-88 08:57:21 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: JIM MORSE (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 10655 (TW523) My point wasn't that interrupt-driven software was the problem, but the hardware interface. The current PL513 interface is a simple adapter that plugs into a parallel port--simple and cheap. To gain access to one of the interrupt inputs to the processor, you must go through the bus, which is always more complicated and expensive. You can hand wire such a beast on a proto card without much trouble, but a commercial board would end up costing more than most people would be willing to spend. You can write the software in just about any language on just about any processor. Temperature inputs aren't very difficult. You need a thermistor with a little bit of glue around it so it presents a voltage which is dependent on temperature. Simply run that into an A/D converter and you have your reading. There are two A/D boards for the BCC bus which can be used. I'll probably eventually add it to my system, but my place is small enough that the set-back thermostat works well enough for now. As for I/R control, you need to cannibalize portions of Steve's February and March '87 Circuit Cellar articles to add I/R input to your controlling computer. Then you can just send out the appropriate commands to the power line. Msg#:10694 *INK* 11-30-88 01:57:54 From: ROBERT LANSDALE To: MARK VOORHEES (Rcvd) Subj: 10MHZ 68901? I noticed in part 4 of the Home Weather Satellite Centre that the 68901 was being driven by a 10mhz clock signal, yet the fastest 68901 I know of can only go as fast as 4mhz. I've phoned around the distributors here in Toronto and they have not heard on a 10mhz part, so what's going on? I suppose you could derive a 2.5mhz clock for it, but some of the timing specs make it hard to drive the chip with a cpu clock rate of 10mhz. I am most interested in hearing your answer as I am building a similar 68k system (10mhz) and would like to use the 68901 as the interrupt controller. ---> Robert Lansdale. Msg#:10748 *INK* 11-30-88 23:57:05 From: MARK VOORHEES To: ROBERT LANSDALE (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 10694 (10MHZ 68901?) Robert Lansdale; You are correct that the clock input is a 4 MHz maximum (for this component rating). I had been told of availability of a 12MHz unit and had planned for it (we work on deadlines some number of months ahead, and obviously, design the units earlier than that). My source at Motorola has failed me, as you might have guessed; the faster version is now without a due date. There will be a correction in a future installment, adding the divider to reduce clock to 2.5 MHz (which is what I originally designed around many months ago). Sorry for the confusion. Mark Voorhees Msg#:10727 *INK* 11-30-88 15:29:59 From: BJ GLEASON To: CURT FRANKLIN (Rcvd) Subj: TRS-80 VOXBOX hi... i want to say your mag is great, and would like to know if you would be interrested in an article. I have a trs-80 voxbox speech recognition unit, that i modified and hooked up to the pc via the printer port. I am currently finsihing up the recognition software, and would like to know if you think your readers would be interrested. In the article i would describe the mods, the signals generated, and how to access them. I would upload some programs with source code that would plot the voice patterns, and recognize speech. Thanks for your consideration. bj gleason, upsala college Msg#:10839 *INK* 12-02-88 10:35:23 From: CURT FRANKLIN To: BJ GLEASON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 10727 (TRS-80 VOXBOX) BJ - I think that your project has some potential. Why don't you send me an outline of your proposed article, along with schematics and code. We'll take a look at it, and decide where we go from there. Thanks for your interest in becoming a Circuit Cellar INK author! Best regards, Curt Franklin Msg#:10841 *INK* 12-02-88 11:03:37 From: BJ GLEASON To: CURT FRANKLIN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 10839 (TRS-80 VOXBOX) great! i am revising the sfotware now, will send you the material on monday.... thanks! Msg#:11476 *INK* 12-14-88 11:19:54 From: BJ GLEASON To: CURT FRANKLIN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 10839 (TRS-80 VOXBOX) mr. franklin.... i am sorry for this delayed response, but things hasve been a bit hetic at the end of the semester. I am leaving for london and will not have the materials ready by then, I will send them on my return in the middle of january.... sorry for the inconvience.... bj Msg#:10865 *INK* 12-03-88 03:21:59 From: WESLY BERNEBERG To: CURT FRANKLIN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 5397 (A QUESTION OF INK) I have been following the discussion of a battery powered terminal for RS-232 communications. What you seek has been on the market for several years now and it is getting cheaper all the time. It has a 40 character by 8 line display, RS-232 port, built in modem, Full size keyboard, parallel port, 32K memory and built in software. New cost is $399 and even less if you buy a used one. I am talking about a TRS-80 Model 100/102. It seems like the perfect solution to what you need. Msg#:10896 *INK* 12-03-88 22:24:05 From: KEVIN A. BUTKO To: CURT FRANKLIN (Rcvd) Subj: SUBSCRIPTION I HAVE RECEIVED THE INVOICE FOR MY NEW SUBSCRIPTION. IT SAYS I SHOULD HAVE RECEIVED MY FIRST ISSUE BY NOW; I HAVE NOT. CAN YOU VERIFY THAT ONE WAS MAILED? THIS NUMBER IS FROM THE INVOICE, I SUPPOSE IT IS MY MEMBER NUMBER: B8838N002. THANK YOU. Msg#:10922 *INK* 12-04-88 14:09:48 From: STEVE SAMPSON To: CURT FRANKLIN (Rcvd) Subj: PHOTOGRAPHY Just a note to complement whoever's taking the photos! Nice contrast. Now for a request. When I started wire wrapping I never knew if I was doing it correctly. I sort of invented my own methods that seem to work. I usually run everything into a bundle with a piece of wire to close them up. Everything except power and ground and clocks that is. I usually run that on a seperate bundle. I for one would like to see the flip side of your wire wrapped projects! No matter how ugly it is (smile). I say that because after about 24 wires, mine look like - well they don't look nice. Thanks for some interesting projects, and looking forward to 1989. For some article ideas - how about some Op-Amp basics/intermediates. Or if you have an article that has an Op-Amp in it - expand on it a little. I'm always interested in filters/limiter s/amplifiers using Op-Amps. Msg#:10978 *INK* 12-05-88 10:11:30 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: STEVE SAMPSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 10922 (PHOTOGRAPHY) The back of a wire-wrapped board is supposed to look like a jumbled mess. The wires should lay close to the board, so you should cut the wires pretty close to the length necessary to make the run, but they should not be bundled and run through fixed channels. Tying a bunch of wires together like that can cause more noise on the board. If nobody but yourself is ever going to see the bottom of the board, who cares what it looks like? Keeping wires separate also makes debugging, circuit tracing, and modifications easier. I can understand your wanting pictures of the bottoms of boards, but I think the response you'll get is, why waste valuable space to show a picture of a jumbled mess? One other point is most of the boards so far have been wired point-to-point with wire-wrap wire and solder rather than wired wire-wrap. Many of the same factors come into play, though. Msg#:10996 *INK* 12-05-88 15:30:35 From: CURT FRANKLIN To: STEVE SAMPSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 10922 (PHOTOGRAPHY) First, thanks for the compliment on the photos. They are usually taken by one of the editors here. Next, Ken's right: One of the best wire-wrappers I know refers to the back of his boards as "fur balls." He's accurate in his description. I understand why you want to see that level of detail, but I'm not convinced that Circuit Cellar INK is the best place to see it. We're being very careful to avoid confusion with Radio Electronics, Modern Electronics, et al, and a focus on wire-wrapping techniques strikes me as being a little close to the edge. Thanks for your other suggestions for articles. You might want to send mail to Jeff Bachiochi (of "From the Bench" fame) since several of your ideas seemed perfect for that type of column. Best regards, Curt Franklin Msg#:10944 *INK* 12-04-88 22:38:34 From: ANDY PICKETT To: KEN DAVIDSON (Rcvd) Subj: SUBSCRIPTION RENEWAL Ken: Just realized that I have already recieved 4 issues of my first year of INK (I don't have Nov/Dec yet), and don't want my subscription to lapse. Will I be sent a notice, or should I send in a card from my next issue? Thanks, --->Andy<--- Msg#:10963 *INK* 12-05-88 09:04:24 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: ANDY PICKETT (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 10944 (SUBSCRIPTION RENEWAL) We've been having some trouble with our mailing list house and renewals, but they should be currently going out. We won't let subscriptions lapse, so wait for your renewal notice. Msg#:10995 *INK* 12-05-88 14:55:51 From: MATT WERNER To: CURTIS FRANKLIN Subj: GREETINGS AND PCB CAD INFO As a charter subscriber to CCINK I am pleased with what I have received in this first year. I look forward to many more. Your three questions on INK content.... Information on kits would be ok especially any pitfalls anyone had run into. As an electrical engineer I would design my own usually. Test equipment is always of interest, how about programmers for EPROM versions of various uP. R/C projects are always of interest to me. For John Dearmond's question on PCB CAD there is a PCB company that offers a software survey for $25. They are: Industrial Magic 10832 East Marginal WyS, Seattle, Washington 98168. Their views coencided with my experiences with various CAD products. We still use EE Designer 8-(. I am planning on getting involved in your design contest, it sounds like a great way to get closet designers to get their stuff out. Thanks to you and steve and all the rest for the great magazine. Matt Werner Msg#:11012 *INK* 12-05-88 21:22:52 From: STEVE SAMPSON To: KEN DAVIDSON (Rcvd) Subj: WIRE WRAPPING I was thinking of the wires that run to the buss, but otherwise yes I keep the wires short (for economic reasons if anything else, ha). Rather than a whole picture dedicated to it, you could have a partial view. For instance the O-Scope article could have shown the back side of the card as it sits in the AT case, etc. (course I realize that you can only use what the author sends). But anyway just some comments, don't want to make a major thread out of this. Thanks, Steve. Msg#:11013 *INK* 12-05-88 23:06:46 From: MATTHEW LEVINE To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: SUBSCRIPTION PROBLEM HEY STEVE , . . "THANK YOU FOR YOUR ORDER TO CIRCUIT CELLAR INK. BY THIS TIME YOU HAVE RECEIVED ONE ISSUE OF YOUR PUBLICATION." . . I THINK SOMEONE 'OOPS'ED AND SENT THE BILL INSTEAD OF (OR BEFORE) THE MAGAZINE . WOULD YOU MIND CHECKING THIS OUT FOR ME , > P-L-E-A-S-E < ?? I AM IMPATIENT WHEN IT COMES TO LATCHING ON TO AND ENJOYING A "READER'S" PUBLICATION AND AM LOOKING FORWARD TO ENJOYING THE STUFF THAT byte RECKLESSLY ABANDONED WITHOUT CAUSE OF REGARD TO IT'S READERS. . BEST WISHES AND HAPPY HOLIDAYS TO YOU AND YOURS AND TO C.C. , INK , AND MICROMINT . . . >->-> MATT <-<-<- . . PS: HOW CAN I OBTAIN CATALOGS OF YOUR PRODUCTS FOR CHRISTMAS? Msg#:11038 *INK* 12-06-88 10:03:02 From: STEVE CIARCIA To: MATTHEW LEVINE (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 11013 (SUBSCRIPTION PROBLEM) The last place to go if you want efficiency is management :-) To check on your subscription call Yankee directly at 605-563-8111 ext 214. If there is a problem they can't resolve then call here (203-875-2199) and ask for Rose. Keep it in the trenches if you want action :-) --Steve Msg#:11126 *INK* 12-07-88 17:20:44 From: MATTHEW LEVINE To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 11038 (SUBSCRIPTION PROBLEM) STEVE , FIRST OF ALL,I'D LIKE TO APOLOGIZE FOR "PUNCHIN' THE WRONG BUTTON" . . SECONDLY , I PUNCHED IT TOO SOON .MY FIRST ISSUE CAME TODAY, AND I THINK IT'S FANTASTIC!!! . . KEEP UP THE GREAT WORK. . . ->->-> MATT <-<-< Msg#:11020 *INK* 12-06-88 02:16:21 From: KEN HOWELL To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: LAST BYTE Steve -- I read with interest your last article in Byte. It was too bad that they didn't let you (or you didn't choose to) give a "farewell" message. If they didn't let you, I think it speaks of their recognition of your importance as an author, and a realization of their loss. I have been following your articles since I "first" noticed Byte in law school. I have extended my subscription to Byte on many occasions just on the strength of your articles. One of my main interests in getting ahold of the early Byte magazines, is just to have a reference to your articles (although I must admit that there is some nostalgic value in early computer magazines.) YOu're doing CC Ink right. Keep up the good work, and if you ever need inspiration, just look over the early Byte articles! --Ken. Msg#:11041 *INK* 12-06-88 10:16:36 From: STEVE CIARCIA To: KEN HOWELL (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 11020 (LAST BYTE) Thanks, Ken. If you stay tuned to CC INK you won't miss anything. Regarding a farewell message, I included one (A nice one, I thought) but Langa personally instructed it to be deleted. I guess if you don't tell the BYTE readers something they aren't smart enough to notice . Of course, I know of about 25,000 who couldn't wait. --Steve Msg#:11142 *INK* 12-07-88 22:16:40 From: KEN HOWELL To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 11041 (LAST BYTE) Well, I've sent a message or two to Langa on Bix about it all. I probably won't rush out and cancel my subscription, but they've heard from me. --Ken. Msg#:11030 *INK* 12-06-88 05:20:28 From: GARY LEAR To: SYSOP (Rcvd) Subj: CONTEST? Ken, I read a message that seemed to indicate that Curt Franklin has some sort of a "design contest" in mind. Do you know if this is true, or just my overworked imagination? If it is true, could you provide some specifics? Thanks, Gary. Msg#:11034 *INK* 12-06-88 09:03:32 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: GARY LEAR (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 11030 (CONTEST?) On page 5 of issue #6 of INK, a Circuit Cellar INK design contest is announced. I'd rather not try to duplicate all the details right now. Perhaps we can get Curt to upload the text of the page in INK so everyone can see what it is all about. Msg#:11085 *INK* 12-07-88 06:51:12 From: GARY LEAR To: KEN DAVIDSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 11034 (CONTEST?) Thanks. I'll await details here or in the magazine. --Gary Msg#:11063 *INK* 12-06-88 19:20:55 From: DAVE MOHR To: ED NISELY Subj: IMAGEWISE /PC ARTICLE Ed, since I work in video I couldn't help noticing the reversal of the photos 1 and 3. Also the comment for photo 3 should refer to photo 1 not photo 2 as representing "true" NTSC once the photos are reversed. Well, hopefully you can straighten this out in the next article. ===DAVE Msg#:11104 *INK* 12-07-88 09:27:40 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: DAVE MOHR Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 11063 (IMAGEWISE /PC ARTICLE) Shoot. Sorry about that. I consider that one my fault. Even thought I didn't do the actual layout, I should have paid more attention to getting the proper caption under each photograph. I'm sure we'll try to get a correction in the next issue. Thanks for pointing it out. Msg#:11301 *INK* 12-11-88 19:40:25 From: ED NISLEY To: DAVE MOHR Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 11063 (IMAGEWISE /PC ARTICLE) Yeah, we fumbled that one. Maybe we should start a contest for the reader who spots the most goofs in a single issue... but I'm not sure my ego is up to it... Msg#:11302 *INK* 12-11-88 19:41:10 From: ED NISLEY To: KEN DAVIDSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 11104 (IMAGEWISE /PC ARTICLE) Hey, look, we all get to look at the proofs, right? There's enough blame to go around! Msg#:11088 *INK* 12-07-88 07:05:00 From: DALE NASSAR To: CURT FRANKLIN (Rcvd) Subj: HOLOGRAPHICS Curt, I would like to submit an article for INK on computer generated holography. If everything works out, I may be able to have enough completed this month. What type of photos do you use (color?,etc.) What sort of details would you like to see? --Dale Msg#:11111 *INK* 12-07-88 12:35:50 From: CURT FRANKLIN To: DALE NASSAR (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 11088 (HOLOGRAPHICS) Dale - Currently, all of our photos are balck and white. To get best printing results, we like to see black and white prints (or negatives) in the door. If your work produces some really great color stuff, though, we may be able to use some color photos. In that case, color chromes (slides) are best. Now, to the level of detail. Hmm, I guess ``a lot'' is what we want. Seriously, our readers are quite technically sophisticated and they like to see enough detail to let them go out and try things themselves. I think that holography will be new enough to many of them that a section on theoretical backgound would be good. Go ahead and make this section nice and complete. If we get squeezed for space, I can do some editorial compression on it. I'm looking forward to seeing the article (or outline, or proposal, or whatever you'll be sending me). Thanks for your interest in Circuit Cellar INK. Best regards, Curt Franklin Msg#:11152 *INK* 12-08-88 10:03:06 From: DALE NASSAR To: CURT FRANKLIN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 11111 (HOLOGRAPHICS) Curt, I think B&W photos will serve the purpose well. I have been working on the article for some time now and have a fairly complete layout plan. I'll send you something before or around Christmas for preview. --Dale Msg#:11115 *INK* 12-07-88 15:28:33 From: MARCUS HALL To: STEVE CIARCIA/KEN DAVIDSON Subj: ROVER On the ROVER project, you went to some pains to prevent pan or tilt control problems with a software error. However, it appears that if a similar error occurs in the ZOOM control, the relays will connect the +5V supply to the -5V supply. Be careful with the software! Actually, may I suggest a different strategy where one bit controls the power for a function and the other controls the direction. The relays would then be wired: RIGHT -------------------O------| _ |----O-----/ PAN DIRECTION | | _ LEFT -------------------O------| | | | | |----O-----/ PAN POWER _ 24VAC -------------------O------| +5V -------------------O------| _ |----O-----/ ZOOM DIRECTION | | _ -5V -------------------O------| | | | | |----O-----/ ZOOM POWER _ ZOOM -------------------O------| etc. This would be about the same complexity, but it would provide inherent prevention of don't care errors. marcus hall Msg#:11123 *INK* 12-07-88 16:50:39 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: MARCUS HALL (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 11115 (ROVER) Yea, I noticed that when I was drawing the relay diagrams and hoped nobody else would look that close. I guess it just means that Steve has such unwavering trust in my software that he didn't worry about such a short when he wired the relays. ;-) Msg#:11154 *INK* 12-08-88 10:23:30 From: STEVE CIARCIA To: MARCUS HALL (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 11115 (ROVER) I trust Ken but that was not the reason for my wiring as it was. The BCC40R boards I used has 4 spdt and 4 spst relays. I used the spdt relays for the pan and tilt motors because I didn't want the mount to try to screw itself through the roof. In the case of the zoom, while the software could theoritically apply +/-5V at the same time, it would in effect be shorting the +5V to the -5V. This would cause the power supply to current limit and nothing would happen as a result. --Steve Msg#:11530 *INK* 12-15-88 13:48:17 From: MARCUS HALL To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 11154 (ROVER) Ah, but, if you wire the pan and tilt differently, you can safely protect against software faults with a spdt and spst relay for each control. This would free up an spdt relay for using for a software safe zoom control. Anyhow, it's a minor nit, it's the overall concept behind the project that really counts. marcus hall Msg#:11159 *INK* 12-08-88 15:24:37 From: JOHN ZIMA To: MARK VOORHEES (Rcvd) Subj: WEATHER.EXE Mark, Sorry I so late with a response to your disk. The information arrived safely and the radar overlay system does work properly. I downloaded several files from Weather Bank and they plotted successfully! The modem commands still don't work correctly with my modem. I am using an AST 1200 baud modem that is supposed to emulate the Hayes command set, but then again who knows. I am doing an ascii download from Weather Bank and getting all the data I need, so I'm not concerned about that part not working. At one time you mentioned that you were looking into working on a receiver for the Zepher format and were trying to work out something with Alden. Have you had any progress with that? I'd be interested in using the 70 Mhz or baseband signals from my satellite receiver to feed a display system. By the way, Zepher has moved from W-5 to S-3. Thanks for your help. JFZ. Msg#:11401 *INK* 12-13-88 00:32:40 From: MARK VOORHEES To: JOHN ZIMA (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 11159 (WEATHER.EXE) John; I'm in the process of re-writing the comm modules now, to take out what appears to be some non-generic Hayes references that a few modems (4 to date) don't seem to like. I'll let you know. I'm still interested in the Zepher feeds, but that's been on the back burner as I'll be providing a circuit for a dedicated receiver for use with an off-the-shelf downconverter for WEFAX. After that project is complete, some X.25 ICs should be available that I've waited for to continue that research. Thanks also for the info on the Zepher move; by the way, have you tried taking Baseband+SC from your Sat receiver into a Shortwave rcvr to experiment with recovery of the SCPC data and WEFAX/NAFAX data? Look forward to hearing from you. Let's keep in touch. Mark Voorhees Msg#:11524 *INK* 12-15-88 09:38:58 From: JOHN ZIMA To: MARK VOORHEES (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 11401 (WEATHER.EXE) I did try running a PLL on the recovered data and decoding it that way but my dish/receiver didn't have enough gain and I had considerable noise. I've since upgraded to a 12 ' dish and better receiver. I'll have to try again. One problem I have is the exact data format that is coming down the line. The data I'll probably get, but I haven't found any written information as to the protocal. Do you have any data? The local college has a Zepher system by Alden, but so far Alden is very closed mouth as to what they are doing. The college system died a few weeks age and they wouldn't even help out with schematics or troubleshooting data. It was just a board swap. It's too bad because NY State is cutting back its funds to the SUNY system and there is no funds for repairs and maintenance. But that is another problem! Talk to you again. JFZ Msg#:11551 *INK* 12-16-88 00:28:18 From: MARK VOORHEES To: JOHN ZIMA (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 11524 (WEATHER.EXE) John; I'm painfully aware of the levels of security that the services put on the protocols. I'm working to see what I can do about getting them as a system developer, but that'll take a while. I do find that the encoding is a packet-format, HDLC-type signal, which may open some doors to their technique. The FAX signals on those bands, however, are unencoded and directly receivable with a properly-formatted machine. Do you have Ralph Taggart's WEFAX manual? If not, let me know & I'll give you info on how to order... it's a good reference. I wish I had more experimenting time! Mark Voorhees Msg#:11558 *INK* 12-16-88 07:36:17 From: STEVE SAMPSON To: MARK VOORHEES (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 11551 (WEATHER.EXE) I have the NWS HDLC protocol for their weather radar stuff if your interested? Msg#:11671 *INK* 12-17-88 23:45:05 From: MARK VOORHEES To: STEVE SAMPSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 11558 (WEATHER.EXE) Steve; I would definitely be interested in the NWS protocols; a source at NWS has been unable to acquire them for me. If you would send them to me at: Mark Voorhees PO. Box 27476 Phoenix, AZ 85061 I will gladly reimburse you for copying and postage charges by return mail. I think that this type of information availability would be useful to thos who already have TVRO, and the interface could be an interesting project as well. Thanks for the offer. Mark Voorhees Msg#:11689 *INK* 12-18-88 16:08:11 From: STEVE SAMPSON To: MARK VOORHEES (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 11671 (WEATHER.EXE) I'll send it this week, You should get it next year :-) Hollidays and all... Did I spell that right, ack - Holidays. Msg#:11698 *INK* 12-18-88 17:03:17 From: STEVE SAMPSON To: MARK VOORHEES (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 11671 (WEATHER.EXE) I've been looking for an Interface board that would store the information on board, and then the PC would download it to video ram through a conversion process. (ie, 512 x 512 to 512 x 350). I think a hardware solution is best with a microprocessor or microcontroller doing all the work and the PC just doing scaling, expansion, display work. I'll buy one when your done (smile). Seriously though I'm looking for a system for a radio station that is less than $1000 and uses an XT/EGA. Most companies are selling full up systems in the upper teens. And they won't take already-on-a-desk PC's as trade-ins. I asked one for the hardware board only and was told to forget it. -821-37951200 N71N Sourcery...............728-2463-....1200 N7 Msg#:11757 *INK* 12-19-88 23:29:22 From: MARK VOORHEES To: STEVE SAMPSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 11689 (WEATHER.EXE) Steve; Again, thanks much. Mark Voorhees Msg#:11758 *INK* 12-19-88 23:38:25 From: MARK VOORHEES To: STEVE SAMPSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 11698 (WEATHER.EXE) Steve; I have heard that Packet TNCs can be adapted to provide the interfacing through the PC's serial port; not ideal, maybe, but fairly inexpensive. You might look on the D~rallas Remote Imaging Group BBS (the home of John Williams, Ralph Taggart, and others) for info-(214) 394-7438 in Dallas. They've done some interesting work with the Imagewise hardware as well. As my research progresses, I'll let you knoo of any suggestions I might have. Mark Voorhees Msg#:11802 *INK* 12-21-88 09:19:45 From: JOHN ZIMA To: MARK VOORHEES (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 11551 (WEATHER.EXE) Time is always a problem. I have three editions of Taggart's manuals. Thanks. JFZ Msg#:11173 *INK* 12-08-88 23:06:00 From: TOM ARNOLD To: KEN DAVIDSON (Rcvd) Subj: INK SAMPLES I just recieved a BCC52 at work, and inside the box was a sample copy of CC INK. That's a clever ploy, but I already have that issue. Maybe the Micromint sales staff should ask "have you seen INK yet" and inclose one if not. I'm lending it around, but I don't know that it will do any good. Msg#:11186 *INK* 12-09-88 08:42:25 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: TOM ARNOLD Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 11173 (INK SAMPLES) In some companies, our sales staff talks to their purchasing department, and the engineer who will eventually get the equipment is out of the loop. In such an instance, asking if they'd seen INK would be met with puzzled silence regardless of whether the engineer had seen it or not. The benefit of getting extra copies into the hands of development engineers more than offsets the cost of sending out a few duplicate issues. Msg#:11212 *INK* 12-09-88 18:05:43 From: STEVE SAMPSON To: SYSOP (Rcvd) Subj: CONTEST I didn't find an OFFICIAL contest entry form in my latest issue. I take it you must write for one? If not I'll take one. Would a state machine count as an embedded controller (grin). Msg#:11326 *INK* 12-12-88 08:44:40 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: STEVE SAMPSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 11212 (CONTEST) You didn't find an entry form in the magazine because there is a sentence on that page that says "To enter the contest, send for a complete set of rules and an official entry blank." Leave your address in a message for Curt and I'm sure he'll get you one. Msg#:11222 *INK* 12-09-88 23:08:11 From: TOM HOOPES To: KEN DAVIDSON (Rcvd) Subj: BACK ISSUE Hold the phone ! I just got the lastest issue of Circuit Cellar Ink and noticed that there remains a limited number of issue #1's. If possible please put my name on one issue and my check will be in the mail tomorrow. Do you know if the DATALINK RBBS (listed in May/June 1988 INK - Home satellite part #3) is still in existence ? I paid the $18.00 to join and sent (10) new diskettes for program copies. Three months later, no diskettes and the line is eternally busy. I was going to submit a project idea last month but I now have a greater motivation ($$$), so I'll submit it for the contest. As always, I'm rooting for your success. Keep up the great work! Thanks. Msg#:11277 *INK* 12-11-88 13:17:58 From: STEVE CIARCIA To: TOM HOOPES (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 11222 (BACK ISSUE) Sorry, Tom, but issues 1, 2, 3, and 4 are SOLD OUT (when did you ever last hear that about amagazine?). While we don't intend to republish previous issues, next year sometime we will be offering certain article reprints. --Steve Msg#:11327 *INK* 12-12-88 08:48:42 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: TOM HOOPES (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 11222 (BACK ISSUE) As Steve said, issues 1-4 are no longer available. In the time between the layout of that back issue ad and now, the numbers dwindled down to zero. I just called the Datalink BBS twice in the past few days and got through on my first try both times. It seems to be alive and well. Just keep trying. Msg#:11397 *INK* 12-12-88 22:51:35 From: TOM HOOPES To: KEN DAVIDSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 11327 (BACK ISSUE) You can't say that I didn't try. Thanks anyway. Msg#:11239 *INK* 12-10-88 15:11:04 From: BRIAN JOSEPH To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: HOW DO I RENEW? Steve, Boy, was I shocked to see my name in print! My entire family couldn't believe I could write ! Anyway, how can I renew my subscription to INK? I would really like to renew it for at least 3 or 4 years... Thanks! Brian. Msg#:11270 *INK* 12-11-88 12:50:41 From: STEVE CIARCIA To: BRIAN JOSEPH (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 11239 (HOW DO I RENEW?) The fulfilment house is a bit late sending renewals but we won't terminate any subscriptions in the mean time. DOn't worry, you'll eventually get one. Regarding renewal periods, we will still only be offering one year extensions for the next 6 months. As soon as we decide when we are going monthly, we will offer 1,2, and 3 year subs. BTW, CC INK goes color on the next issue. --Steve Msg#:11282 *INK* 12-11-88 14:33:08 From: BRIAN JOSEPH To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: WHAT IS BTW? What does BTW stand for???? Msg#:11286 *INK* 12-11-88 15:41:44 From: STEVE SAMPSON To: BRIAN JOSEPH (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 11282 (WHAT IS BTW?) (B)y (T)he (W)ay Shorthand computer lingo, sort of like ASAP and RSVP, etc. Msg#:11289 *INK* 12-11-88 17:34:27 From: KEN HOWELL To: ALL Subj: CONNECT TIME Wow -- I'm in print! My cat is dissapointed that I didn't mention him by name, though. --Ken. Msg#:11344 *INK* 12-12-88 10:22:00 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: KEN HOWELL (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 11289 (CONNECT TIME) Spark some more interesting threads and you may find yourself there again. And be sure to mention your cat's name in every new message, just in case. :-) Msg#:11363 *INK* 12-12-88 14:13:04 From: DAVID STEERE To: ALL Subj: REQUEST FOR (UNAVAILABLE) BACK ISSUE COPY. I just received my first issue of Circuit Cellar INK today, and discovered to my disappointment that I can no longer obtain a back issue of issue #3, wherein the X-10 controller system is discussed. If anyone can loan/copy/sell me a facsimile of this issue, or at least the X-10 portion of the issue, I would be most grateful. Further, if anyone could point me in the direction of locating a source of technical information about the X-10 system (how it works, etc.), I would consider this a Christmas gift of the first magnitude. My home address, if anything can be mailed off directly, is: 4485 Pleasant Valley Ct., Oakland, CA 94611. Thanks to all who might be willing to offer help here. David Steere. Reply has been deleted Msg#:11367 *INK* 12-12-88 14:38:43 From: GARY PACK To: ALL Subj: NTSC Could someone out there photocopy Mark Vorhee(spelling Oh well) article on RGBI-NTSC conversion from CCInk #1 for me. Wouldn't you know that's the only issue I don't have. I'll be happy to reemberse you for mailing and copy expences. Thanks a lot. Gary Pack 918 Racine St. Delavan WI 53113 Msg#:11370 *INK* 12-12-88 16:22:47 From: BOB ARMSTRONG To: ALEXANDER SCHNEIDER (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 7817 (THANK YOU) Sorry for the delay..... The military used the WOBBULATOR for the APN/1 altimeter. It provided the fixed degree of phase shift for the TX oscillator. Msg#:11389 *INK* 12-12-88 20:23:55 From: ED NISLEY To: DDT-51 USERS Subj: GAFFE IN FURNACE #6 Gaffe! Gaffe! The schematic in last month's column omitted a gate. PSEN and RD (8031 pins 29 and 17) should connect to a 74LS08 AND gate; the output should connect to OE (2764 pin 22). The ill effect was that KERNEL couldn't read instructions from the Target RAM; you probably noticed that the disassembled instruction was always trash. Worse, KERNEL restored that trash whenever you cleared a breakpoint. The version of KERNEL on the BBS uses MOVC rather than MOVX instructions to read the Target RAM, so it will work correctly without that gate. And we managed to fix up one of the two stack references in the article... SP appears to stay at 07H (rather than 0FH) throughout the loop in KERNEL. Keep smilin' Msg#:11461 *INK* 12-14-88 00:08:14 From: STEVE JACOB To: ALL Subj: BACK ISSUES I am looking for copies of issues 1 to 4 of CC INK. Anyone who wishes to sell their back issues please leave me a note her or call at (402)-466-8108. Thanks. Steve Msg#:11485 *INK* 12-14-88 15:40:44 From: JIM MORSE To: DAVID STEERE (Rcvd) Subj: X10 YOU CAN GET TECH INFO ON THE STUFF FROM X10 AT 201-784-9700 (NORTHVALE, NJ). ASK FOR DAVE RYE OR BETTER YET THE TECH REP FOR YOUR GEOGRAPHICAL AREA. I THINK I HAVE #3 AND WOULD BE HAPPY TO XEROX THE SECTION FOR YOU AS LONG AS NO ONE AT CIRCUIT CELLAR OBJECTS TO THIS KIND OF COPYING FOR TECHNICAL REFERENCE ONLY. i WOULDN'T THINK IT WOULD BE A PROBLEM. DO YOU STILL NEED THE SECTION WE'RE DISCUSSING OR DO YOU HAVE IT NOW? X10 WILL SEND YOU ALL KINDS OF INFO. THERE'S ALSO SOMETHING YOU MIGHT BE INTERESTED IN WHICH IS AN IR RECEIVER WHICH CAN TRANSMIT X10 SIGNALS. IT'S CONTROLLED BY THE ONE-FOR-ALL (TM) IR REMOTE. THIS IS A PREPROGRAMMED REMOTE AS OPPOSED TO PROGRAMMABLE. YOU CAN USE IT FOR ALL YOUR STEREO STUFF AS WELL AS TO CONTROL THIS NEW BOX. NOW YOU CAN DIM YOUR LIGHTS AND ADJUST THE MUSIC (OR SWITCH ON YOUR VCR) ETC. WITHOUT LEAVING THE COUCH! ONE-FOR-ALL IS $129 LIST, YOU CAN GET IT FOR $100. THE NEW IR/X10 IS $? (NOT "VERY MUCH", AS I RECALL). ANYWAY I HAVE ONE ON ORDER FOR ME AS SOON AS THE FIRST SHIPMENT COMES IN. I ALSO USE THE STANLEY IR MOTION DETECTOR WHICH SENDS OUT X10 CODES. IT'S ONLY $35. I HAVE IT TURN ON ALL MY PORCH AND FLOOD LIGHTS WHEN I COME IN THE DRIVEWAY. AND DON'T FORGET THE TW523 INTERFACE THAT SENDS AND RECEIVES X10 CODES AND INTERFACES TO YOUR COMPUTER SO YOU CAN PUT SOME MORE LOGIC BEHIND EVERYTHING. I ALSO HAVE AN IBM VOICE CARD THAT LETS ME CONTROL (INDIRECTLY) X10 STUFF VIA TOUCH-TONES FROM A REMOTE LOCATION. NOW, IF I COULD ONLY GET ALL THIS STUFF TO WORK TOGETHER!!! I THINK IT WOULD BE A BIG IMPROVEMENT IF X10 WOULD LET THE WALL SWITCHES SEND OUT CODES AS WELL AS RECEIVE THEM, THEN I COULD MAKE SOME OF MY SWITCHES "2-WAY" (CONTROL SAME LIGHTS FROM SEVERAL SWITCHES) WITHOUT TEARING OUT THE WALLS AND REWIRING. OR AM I MISSING SOMETHING? I HEAR THE RCA IR MOTION DETECTORS ARE NICE TOO BUT THEY DON'T USE X10 CODES. I WANT TO GET SOME IR SENSING INSIDE THE HOUSE. SPEAKING OF IR, HAVE YOU SEEN THOSE WIRELESS KOSS HEADPHONES? COULD BE NEAT IF YOU'RE INTO HEADPHONES. ABOUT $160. MY # AT WORK, 603-752-4600 X2242; HOME 603-752-7628. IF YOU ARE INTERESTED, LET'S TALK SOMETIME. SEE YA............. JIM Msg#:11486 *INK* 12-14-88 16:04:25 From: JIM MORSE To: KEN DAVIDSON (Rcvd) Subj: TW523 INTERFACE TO IBM PC KEN, I BELIEVE YOU MENTIONED THAT YOU HAD SPECS ON A BUILD-AT-HOME BOARD FOR INTERFACING THE TW523 AND IBM PC. COULD YOU SEND ME A COPY OF THAT? I'D APPRECIATE IT. THANKS! ........JIM Msg#:11488 *INK* 12-14-88 16:36:22 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: JIM MORSE Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 11486 (TW523 INTERFACE TO IBM PC) I don't have anything for the IBM PC. I have a circuit that I built on a BCC bus prototyping board that works with the BCC180. Since the proto board contains all the necessary bus buffers and decoders, the diagram I drew for it doesn't have any of those; it just has signals marked "800H" meaning the address decoder for address 800H, "DS" for inverted data strobe, and so on. The drawing contains only a small portion of what is necessary to make the whole mess work. If you want to add the necessary decoding and buffering for the IBM PC, I'll send you the diagram, but I can't offer any help beyond that. I have precious little spare time as it is, and I have no interest in designing an IBM PC interface at this time. Msg#:11518 *INK* 12-15-88 07:10:28 From: BOB PADDOCK To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: ROVER TRACKING OF OBJECTS The October 1988 issue of NASA Tech Breifs has info on "Optical Recognition and Tracking of Ojects", maybe it would be of some use for the LASER that you mentioned in the Nov/Dec Ink. Msg#:11570 *INK* 12-16-88 09:37:47 From: STEVE CIARCIA To: BOB PADDOCK (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 11518 (ROVER TRACKING OF OBJECTS) Coincidentally, that issue is right here on my desk in a pile of unread magazines. I'll check it. --steve Msg#:11543 *INK* 12-15-88 22:22:29 From: JOSEPH D GRADECKI To: ED NISLEY (Rcvd) Subj: INK ARTICLE Mr. Nisley, In the Nov/Dec issue of INK you have the schematic for a simple 8031 system. I have two questions: 1) What is the significance of the tiny circles at pin 1 of the 74ls373 and pins 20&22 of the 2764? 2) At what rate with the led blink, will it be a distinct on,off,on,off or a scatter blinking? ALso if you can answer this question, Besides no indicated power at the pins, what other ways can a person determine if an 8031 has been blown, I ask because I (as you probably know from of the messages) simply cannot get that circuit to work and I have wired two differnt circuit board in order to get it working. Using my logic probe, after power up, the high order address lines (9-12) sit in a state between 0 and 5 my probe give both a red and green led thus not clearly indicating a single state. In that circuit are the pins with the short connectors and no connections simply for informational purposes such as pins 1-8 of the 8031. Thanks for the HELP. joe Msg#:11557 *INK* 12-16-88 07:32:42 From: STEVE SAMPSON To: JOSEPH D GRADECKI (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 11543 (INK ARTICLE) Little circles like that mean the circuit is active low. A logic zero means TRUE. Msg#:11625 *INK* 12-16-88 23:40:37 From: JOSEPH D GRADECKI To: STEVE SAMPSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 11557 (INK ARTICLE) Thanks for the information. Msg#:11658 *INK* 12-17-88 16:40:37 From: ED NISLEY To: JOSEPH D GRADECKI (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 11543 (INK ARTICLE) Here's how you figure out the LED blink rate: Most 8031 instructions execute in 1 microsecond with a 12 MHz crystal. The INC DPTR and SJMP instructions take 2 us each, so the total loop time is 7 us. The LED will be ON for 7 us and OFF for another 7, which gives a 14 us period and a 71 kHz frequency. That's fast enough that the LED becomes just a little bit dimmer when you run the loop... The real value of the LED is that when you're single stepping through the loop you can watch it change when you go through the CPL instruction. It gives you a warm fuzzy feeling that the stuff you see on the screen isn't just a simple matter of software fakery. Unfortunately, you'll need more than a logic probe to figure out if your 8031 is fried. The output pins toggle at about 1 MHz, so (unless your probe shows pulse trains as distinct blinks) you'll get a blur. While you could write a short program to toggle a port, that introduces an address latch, an EPROM, and some (ugh!) firmware into the problem. Take another look at the Nov/Dec Furnace column and trace through the "Getting Started" section. The first few tests need just the 8031, a crystal, and some caps and resistors. You may have to splurge on a probe with a pulse stretcher to see if the pins are toggling, but you should be able to get on the air. The absolute minimum circuitry is an 8031, the crystal and two 27 pf caps for the oscillator, pullups on pins 32-39, pin 31 tied low and pin 9 connected to the reset circuit. Apply +5V power: the oscillator should start and run at 12 MHz and ALE & PSEN should blip at 1 MHz. If that's true, you've probably got a good chip. And, yes, those unused pins are mostly for information. The schematic drawing program draws the whole IC regardless of what external connections you use... and they makes it easy to sketch in other circuitry when you're tinkering. Msg#:11661 *INK* 12-17-88 19:51:12 From: JOSEPH D GRADECKI To: ED NISLEY (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 11658 (INK ARTICLE) Mr. Nisley, Thanks for the information. I must have something wrong somewhere for the oscillator not to be working. My only other question concerning the pin 18 and 19 of the 8031. Should they both show oscillation where the chip is up and running. I get oscillation on only on pin 18. joe Msg#:11664 *INK* 12-17-88 21:03:22 From: ED NISLEY To: JOSEPH D GRADECKI (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 11661 (INK ARTICLE) If you're looking with a logic probe you won't see much of anything because the voltages are NOT TTL levels... they're the input and output of an analog oscillator driving the crystal! But if you're seeing any pulsing at all, it's probably working; the only question is whether the rest of the chip is fried. Keep plugging away! Msg#:11670 *INK* 12-17-88 23:37:56 From: BRUCE WEBB To: JOSEPH D GRADECKI (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 11661 (INK ARTICLE) Joe, I've experienced the same problem with the 8031. I solved it by adding a large capacitor (300 uF) accross the supply pins where the 5V comes on to the board. I also had oscillations, but it seems the power had snuck up (sneaked ?) on the processor and it didn't reset or anything. I don't know what your success has been, but I found I could reset the chip when that non-operating condition occured (bring reset high) and then everything was fine. Good Luck. Bruce. Msg#:11891 *INK* 12-24-88 12:16:07 From: JOSEPH D GRADECKI To: ED NISLEY (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 11664 (INK ARTICLE) Thanks for the information. I finally got the circuit up and running. I have a terminal hooked up and am able to get information to the terminal but not from the terminal to the 8031. I am using the max232 chip which I must say is alot nicer than running +-12v as well as 5v. Thanks for all the help. joe Msg#:11562 *INK* 12-16-88 08:28:45 From: TIMOTHY SMITH To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: CCI The new magazine looks great! (I'm subscribing). Sorry to see you leave BYTE (guess I'll drop that one). Please find time (or some unlucky soul) to cover all the un-fun aspects of generating a COLOR NTSC signal (digitizing it would be fun too, of course). Also, do you accept outside articles...I've done a few screwy 68K boards that might feature something of interest so somebody (I could've used some pointers when I did the first one)? Also, please keep the envelopes on the magazines...my other mags always arrive in tatters...Keep the articles meaty...and go monthly. I'm sure most readers would pay the added subscription costs to do this stuff. Ah yes, another article I've not seen in any magazines yet would be one covering PCM and other methods of synthesising real instrument sounds. Timothy Smith Msg#:11724 *INK* 12-19-88 09:15:17 From: CURT FRANKLIN To: TIMOTHY SMITH Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 11562 (CCI) Why don't you send me a proposal for an article based on your designs? We're always happy to look at well done, high-quality project and article proposals. If you need more information on writing for Circuit Cellar INK, there's an author's guide on-line here. You can send your proposal to: Curtis Franklin, Jr. Editor in chief Circuit Cellar INK 4 Park St. Vernon, CT 06066 Thanks, Curt Msg#:11576 *INK* 12-16-88 11:14:40 From: STEVE CIARCIA To: TIMOTHY SMITH Subj: CIRCUIT CELLAR INK I'm sure Curt has register your interests and has such subjects already in the works. And, while you may think that your 68K design isn't much why not enter it into the CC INK design contest and see how it really stacks up. To the other questions: CC INK will always be in an envelope, poly bag, or craft wrap (the brown wrapper). We don't like our magazines trashed either. Enventually we will be a monthly and we intend to stay in the same editorial direction. --Steve Msg#:11598 *INK* 12-16-88 16:27:19 From: STEVE SAMPSON To: BOB PADDOCK (Rcvd) Subj: MINIX Bob, the best place is Prentice Hall. They sell the books and Intel /Motorola chip versions (IBM PC/Atari ST). Most of the people who discuss the subject on a daily basis are located on the Unix Network Usenet comp.os.minix thread. Prentice Hall is getting ready to release version 1.3 for the PC, and I don't know what version is current for the ST. The book is "Operating Systems - Design and Implementation" by Andrew Tanenbaum, ISBN 0-13-637406-9. Msg#:11692 *INK* 12-18-88 16:33:34 From: BOB PADDOCK To: STEVE SAMPSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 11598 (MINIX) Is there any relation to XINU for the PC from Printice Hall? I just got the PC edition of XINU from them, and my boss emidatly carryed the book away to read it. Do you have to lisance MINIX in any way? Msg#:11695 *INK* 12-18-88 16:53:58 From: STEVE SAMPSON To: BOB PADDOCK (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 11692 (MINIX) No license, it's pretty much wide open except for setting up shop and selling Minix disks. It's meant to be distributed for educational purposes. The difference with XINU is that XINU is bare bones, operating s system education use. The code has problems that the student nee to solve (or team of students). Minix has a growing base of real utilities and the goal was complete Unix version 7 compatibility (without memory management). It's designed small to work in limited memory. I guess there are some bulletin boards that collect Minix stuff, but I haven't found any. Msg#:11703 *INK* 12-18-88 21:27:27 From: JACK PERGAL To: BOB PADDOCK (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 11692 (MINIX) The Mars Hotel BBS in the DC area specializes in Minix and they keep a lot of the comp.os.minix traffic on hand. The number is 470-3569, I think the area code is 301 but it may be in DC which is 202. This BBS is pursuitable thru DCWAS. Jack Msg#:11749 *INK* 12-19-88 19:18:32 From: BOB PADDOCK To: STEVE SAMPSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 11695 (MINIX) When you find one of those BBSs let me know. Msg#:11750 *INK* 12-19-88 19:19:29 From: BOB PADDOCK To: JACK PERGAL (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 11703 (MINIX) Thanks. Msg#:11606 *INK* 12-16-88 19:23:39 From: PETER HAND To: CURT FRANKLIN (Rcvd) Subj: INK ARTICLE? Would you be interested in a mainly software article concerning operating EGA by machine code? If the trouble I had getting the info about it is any guide, there's probably not much knowledge around about it. Oh, and can I please have an entry form for the contest? I'm a subscriber. Ta, PEH Msg#:11722 *INK* 12-19-88 09:11:09 From: CURT FRANKLIN To: PETER HAND Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 11606 (INK ARTICLE?) Peter - Thanks for the inquiry. I might be interested in the article, but I'll need to see more detail befor I can make any sort of judgement. Why don't you send me an outline o rdetailed proposal, and we'll take it from there. To get the entry form , you need to follow the directions in the magazine: Send a SASE to INK Design Contest Circuit Cellar INK 4 Park St. Vernon, CT 06066 Once we publish instructions, we have to make sure that all contestants follow them. Thanks, Curt Msg#:11738 *INK* 12-19-88 11:41:19 From: STEVE CIARCIA To: ALL Subj: CC INK BACK ISSUES Sometimes it is painful to be successful. We are completely sold out of CC INK issues 1-4 and 5 is going fast. Because we have so many new subscribers who want these first issues we have tentatively decided to reprint the entire first year of CC INK (issues 1-6) in book form. The 1st year compendium can be ordered in the March '89 issue. Sorry for any problems we may have caused loyal readers but it is not often that a magazine is in such demand. Thanks. --Steve Msg#:11768 *INK* 12-20-88 09:28:04 From: MIKE MCGUIRE To: ALL Subj: WANTED: CCI #4 If anyone would kindly copy, lend, or sell me issue #4 I would greatly appreciate it and pay all of the expenses. I am very interested in the articles on stepper motor control. Mike McGuire, 6020 S. 89th E. Ave, Tulsa, Ok, 74145 Thanks! Msg#:11886 *INK* 12-24-88 00:44:42 From: DOUG BUHRMAN To: MIKE MCGUIRE (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 11768 (WANTED: CCI #4) Do you need just the stepper motor article or the whole magazine? Doug Msg#:11979 *INK* 12-27-88 17:22:03 From: MIKE MCGUIRE To: DOUG BUHRMAN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 11886 (WANTED: CCI #4) With the announcement of the upcoming reprint book of issues 1-6 I would be happy with just a copy of the stepper article for now. If you can supply I would be grateful. Msg#:12169 *INK* 12-31-88 17:42:20 From: DOUG BUHRMAN To: MIKE MCGUIRE (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 11979 (WANTED: CCI #4) I think I still have your address, so consider it on the way. Doug Msg#:12395 *INK* 01-05-89 14:05:07 From: MIKE MCGUIRE To: DOUG BUHRMAN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 12169 (WANTED: CCI #4) Thank you very much, Doug! --Mike Msg#:12538 *INK* 01-08-89 10:01:04 From: DOUG BUHRMAN To: MIKE MCGUIRE (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 12395 (WANTED: CCI #4) Hi Mike: Glad to be of service. Doug Msg#:11911 *INK* 12-26-88 00:24:22 From: DALE NASSAR To: CURT FRANKLIN (Rcvd) Subj: HOLOGRAPHICS Curt, Somethimg would have already been in the mail but I can't seem to pull myself away from the word processor. I have completed the theoretical background and am somewhat into the heart of the matter. I'll do a couple more days work on it and send it in with an outline of the unfinished portion. --Dale Msg#:12034 *INK* 12-28-88 13:08:51 From: CURT FRANKLIN To: DALE NASSAR (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 11911 (HOLOGRAPHICS) Thanks, Dale, I'll look forward to seeing your material. Curt Msg#:11918 *INK* 12-26-88 12:55:56 From: JOSE DEMOYA To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: FUTURE PROJECTS Dear Steve, I am very glad of seen this publication on print. I am a suscriber of course. Back in the early 80's you had an article in Byte. It was a simple logic analyzer. I have since long awaited a follow up project. I read in issue No. 5 that Mr. Russell Lindgren mentioned it coming in a future edition. I would like to know when is this project is going to materialize and the specs of the analyzer. Thanks in advance. JDeMoya. Msg#:11946 *INK* 12-27-88 09:18:37 From: STEVE CIARCIA To: JOSE DEMOYA (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 11918 (FUTURE PROJECTS) It would propably be better if Curt answered that question or you went to Russ directly. I know such a project has been discussed. --Steve Msg#:11935 *INK* 12-26-88 19:18:06 From: JOSEPH D GRADECKI To: ED NISLEY (Rcvd) Subj: RECEIVE MR. Nisley, When receiving input on the serial port of the 8031 I use the following code. SCON is set to the value of 50 hex. Loop: JNB RI,Loop MOV A,SBUF CLR RI RET Is there any other piece of code I am missing because I can send text to the terminal connected to the serial port via a MAX232 chip but the 8031 will not recognize any information on the RXD pin. I am sure of the connection becuase I can see an indication of reception on the RXD pin whenever a key is pressed. ANy information would be helpful.. Thanks. joe Msg#:12091 *INK* 12-29-88 20:57:36 From: ED NISLEY To: JOSEPH D GRADECKI (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 11935 (RECEIVE) What did the problem finally turn out to be? Here are a few things to check on the serial port: First, make absolutely sure that you've got the right bit rate. This depends on the reload value for Timer 1 and the crystal frequency. The terminal may be more forgiving than the 8031 if you're off by a few counts. It looks as though you are calling your polling loop as a subroutine. If that call doesn't occur often enough you will lose characters, although you should see something every now and again. You can try connecting the TXD and RXD pins together after disconnecting the MAX232. Write a short routine that sends a byte and receives it; that eliminates all the timing problems. If you send one character at a time you won't have any trouble with overruns and you can even single-step through the loops with no trouble. Ever onward! Msg#:12098 *INK* 12-29-88 23:53:51 From: JOSEPH D GRADECKI To: ED NISLEY (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 12091 (RECEIVE) They problem turned out to be two fold 1) A blown 8031 which I thought was good and 2) my own fault for thinking that the circuit with the led would flash instead of simple be dimmer. I solved the last one by writing a small math routine which I called every now and then to slow the led to a flash. I haven't built the ddt-51 but seems as I go any further with my present project it would be a helping hand. About the serial, it seems I may have had a problem?! with the capacitors on my MAX232 because this little chip would be fine for a minute or two and then would heat up to the untouchable range. So I now have to buy good caps and possibly a new MAX chip. I will try the interconnections of the rxd and Txd lines again adding a small routine to blink my led whenever the transmitted byte is received. Thanks. joe Msg#:12128 *INK* 12-30-88 14:32:48 From: BOB ARMSTRONG To: CURT FRANKLIN (Rcvd) Subj: CONTEST Please send me an "OFFICIAL ENTRY FORM" and contest rules for the controller contest (8031, etc.). Thanks...... Robert Armstrong 408 Patrick Lane Herndon, VA 22070 I am a subscriber. Msg#:12256 *INK* 01-03-89 09:08:00 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: BOB ARMSTRONG Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 12128 (CONTEST) Sorry, but the instructions for the contest state that you should send in a SASE to get an entry form. We have to abide by those rules, so the entry form isn't available through the BBS. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Msg#:12256 *INK* 01/03/89 09:08:00 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: BOB ARMSTRONG Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 12128 (CONTEST) Sorry, but the instructions for the contest state that you should send in a SASE to get an entry form. We have to abide by those rules, so the entry form isn't available through the BBS. Msg#:12260 *INK* 01/03/89 09:30:35 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: KENT CEDOLA (Rcvd) Subj: CHIP OF THE MONTH The biggest problem here is that if a chip is hard to find, it must mean not many people are using it. If Micromint or Digi-Key goes out and buys several thousand chips for INK readers, then only sell an few hundred, what are they going to do with the rest of the chips? They can't send them back where they came from, and nobody else is buying them, so they end up as dead stock eating up storage space and, more importantly, capital. Neither Micromint nor CCI is in the chip business, so you won't see either company buying large quantities of chips for resale. Digi-Key or Jameco might be convinced to stock certain items, but it has to make business sense to them. I'm afraid your suggestion might seem like a good idea for readers of INK, but for a business it carries a lot of risk. I don't think you're going to see anyone jump on the bandwagon quite yet. Msg#:12289 *INK* 01/03/89 20:42:53 From: KENT CEDOLA To: KEN DAVIDSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 12260 (CHIP OF THE MONTH) Mmmm, not an easy egg to crack is it. I'm on a quest to try and get NEC V25 microcontroller from somewhere. Should be interesting. Hows about every so often for CC to have a project that uses some hard to locate part and see if the demand/supply law really works... Kent Msg#:12321 *INK* 01/04/89 09:23:02 From: STEVE CIARCIA To: KENT CEDOLA (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 12289 (CHIP OF THE MONTH) We are also looking for V25's for a project. If we do the project, we will also source the V25. --Steve Msg#:12383 *INK* 01/05/89 11:41:54 From: STEVE CIARCIA To: KENT CEDOLA (Rcvd) Subj: THE NEC V25 CHIP We were quoted about $30 per chip in low qty and have a couple on order. We are considering a V25 controller similar to the BCC180 design but it won't be til the fall. Regarding the 8096 (actually 80C96), we already have such a board kicking around here. Intel sells it through their distributors (at a price that is less than what it costs to build) as an 8096 demo board. If we ever document the thing it will be an INK project. --Steve Msg#:12395 *INK* 01/05/89 14:05:07 From: MIKE MCGUIRE To: DOUG BUHRMAN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 12169 (WANTED: CCI #4) Thank you very much, Doug! --Mike Msg#:12538 *INK* 01/08/89 10:01:04 From: DOUG BUHRMAN To: MIKE MCGUIRE (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 12395 (WANTED: CCI #4) Hi Mike: Glad to be of service. Doug Msg#:12437 *INK* 01/06/89 02:11:01 From: DAVID NYE To: SYSOP (Rcvd) Subj: NEW CHIP COLUMN? Got my first issue a few weeks ago and I'm very impressed. Dale Reid has been subscribing since 1:1 and promised to lend me the other issues. One column I'd really like to see is a discussion of new and interesting chips (not just microprocessors but support chips, memory, new processes, etc). I'd like more detail than the microbytes section of that other magazine, maybe discuss 3 or 4 chips per issue. Kind of a mini Electronic Design for those of us who don't qualify for the free subscription. Msg#:12445 *INK* 01/06/89 08:44:44 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: DAVID NYE (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 12437 (NEW CHIP COLUMN?) We've been discussing just such a section. One problem you run into, though, is that such new chips aren't likely to be available in single quantities to individuals. But if you then limit your selection of chips discussed to those that are available from the parts suppliers, you end up talking about 5-year-old technology that's been beaten into the ground. We'll have to do some more talking before making a decision. Msg#:12448 *INK* 01/06/89 12:14:17 From: BOB PADDOCK To: KEN DAVIDSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 12445 (NEW CHIP COLUMN?) Some thing I find anoying about some other magazines is they write up this super-duper chip, you find that you just have to have one, so you try to get one, then your told it will be avaialbe 18 months from now! The H16 comes to mind as a good example..... Msg#:12458 *INK* 01/06/89 15:27:06 From: STEVE CIARCIA To: BOB PADDOCK (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 12448 (NEW CHIP COLUMN?) You just aren't dealing with the right people, Bob :-) Talk to Ken, he has an H16! In fact, we have an H16 project in the works for the fall Cc INK. --Steve Msg#:12562 *INK* 01/08/89 18:54:37 From: BOB PADDOCK To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 12458 (NEW CHIP COLUMN?) We were dealing with our Hitachi Rep (Out of the Detroite (Sp?) office). Unlike Ken most of us could not go the CA to pick one up. I bet we have you beet on the 68070 tho..... Msg#:12798 *INK* 01/13/89 20:19:41 From: DAVID NYE To: KEN DAVIDSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 12445 (NEW CHIP COLUMN?) I'd rather see a discussion of the newest and best chips rather than the most available. If sufficient hobbyist interest develops for one of these, somebody will figure out a way to make it available in single quantities. Msg#:12842 *INK* 01/14/89 13:44:24 From: BOB PADDOCK To: DAVID NYE (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 12798 (NEW CHIP COLUMN?) Why do you wish to be tempted by some thing that you can't get? Personaly I would rather not know about some thing till it is a avaiable part, saves a lot of frustration. Msg#:12888 *INK* 01/15/89 23:17:46 From: KENT CEDOLA To: BOB PADDOCK (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 12842 (NEW CHIP COLUMN?) Read Electronic Design for new chip information. Msg#:12961 *INK* 01/18/89 07:32:29 From: BOB PADDOCK To: KENT CEDOLA Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 12888 (NEW CHIP COLUMN?) I do. The problem is there 'new' chips some times are not even 'real' chips yet, and they don't tell you that in the artical. Msg#:13136 *INK* 01/22/89 02:27:50 From: DAVID NYE To: BOB PADDOCK (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 12842 (NEW CHIP COLUMN?) I'd just like to know about what's on the cutting edge. I'm not necessarily going to want to build a project with that chip. If a chip is reviewed that I just have to have, there are ways of getting one. Like buying ten and selling nine to like-minded hobbyists. Msg#:13137 *INK* 01/22/89 02:33:35 From: DAVID NYE To: KENT CEDOLA Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 12888 (NEW CHIP COLUMN?) I used to subscribe to ED but the price for those of us who don't qualify for a free subscription went through the roof ($90/yr? Something like that). I still peruse about every other issue in the library. Good source of info on new chips. Msg#:13191 *INK* 01/23/89 12:27:04 From: BOB PADDOCK To: DAVID NYE (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 13136 (NEW CHIP COLUMN?) I guess it depends on when the review is writen. For example the magazine Electronic Designe loves to "review" parts that simply do not exist when the magazine is published. The logic seems to be "Lets discibe this super gizmo that we think every one will need. Then we see if any one calls us to try and get one. If we get more than X number of people to call, then will go ahead and actually start to build the gizmo. When we get the gizmo built it will be 3 years after the first 'review'." It's not realy far for me to just pick on Electronic Design, others do it also, they were the first ones to come to mind (I wonder why? :-) ). Msg#:13220 *INK* 01/24/89 03:39:10 From: DAVID NYE To: BOB PADDOCK (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 13191 (NEW CHIP COLUMN?) I agree that it wouldn't be a good idea to review chips that aren't already in production, just like I don't think vaporware should be reviewed. Msg#:13229 *INK* 01/24/89 09:55:42 From: STEVE CIARCIA To: DAVID NYE (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 13220 (NEW CHIP COLUMN?) Without letting the cat out of the bag, latter this year, there will be an INK supplement (loose definition) that is oriented toward chips and applications of them. We will endeavor to use "real" chips and not vapor. --Steve Msg#:12447 *INK* 01/06/89 10:20:55 From: JOHN ZIMA To: MARK VOORHEES (Rcvd) Subj: NWS PROTOCOLS I recall reading a message to you from Steve Sampson about NWS protocols. As I recall, he was going to send you a copy. If possible, could you ship me a copy and I'll reimburse for any charges. You should still have my address from the 'Weather' disk you sent. Thanks JFZ Msg#:12470 *INK* 01/06/89 18:13:19 From: JOHN NAPOLI To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: POSSIBLE PROJECTS There are two projects I'd like you to consider for future issues of Circuit Cellar INK. The first would be a device used to maintain ni-cad batteries. The device would discharge them to a safe level and recharge them. This would greatly ease the maintenance of ni-cad batteries - as you know, they are so ubiquitous! And they must be maintained carefully to ensure that their charge and lifetime is maximized. The second project is more ambitious. I'd like to see a circuit that could be added to something like a radio-controlled car - you know, something with wheels, a motor, forward and reverse and steering. The circuit would have an (ultrasonic?) scanner. In operation, it would allow the 'car' to operate unattended without hitting obstacles. Random movement of the 'car' is ok - my goal is to achieve continuous, unattended operation. I envision all of the circuitry to be carried on the 'car' - no radio control capability needs to be maintained. I've enjoyed reading your articles for years. CCI is much more enjoyable than Byte was. Good luck! Msg#:12499 *INK* 01/07/89 11:50:30 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: JOHN NAPOLI Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 12470 (POSSIBLE PROJECTS) It's funny you should mention your automated car. We donated an ultrasonic ranger to a group of college students for their senior project and just got a copy of the final paper. They used an RC car and mounted the ranger on the car. They then used an RF circuit to send ranger data back to the computer. The computer had a mechanical interface to the hand-held RC unit that could control the car. In theory, they could allow the computer to drive the car around, using feedback from the ultrasonic ranger so as not to hit anything. I say "in theory" because, like most senior projects, it was overambitious and underfunded. They had trouble getting all the parts together and didn't have enough time to work out all the kinks. They were also incredibly bad writers, so I don't see this becoming an INK project, but it was interesting just the same. Msg#:12563 *INK* 01/08/89 18:59:36 From: BOB PADDOCK To: JOHN NAPOLI Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 12470 (POSSIBLE PROJECTS) The ni-cad maintenace unit was written up in "73" magazine, with in about the last 3 years (I don't rember the issue at the moment). I beleive it was written by Peter Stark, and used a Radio-Shack Color computer (the Joy Stick A/D port was used to mesure the batters, and a relay (the casset relay?) was used to turn a load on and off). Msg#:12605 *INK* 01/09/89 09:32:50 From: STEVE CIARCIA To: JOHN NAPOLI Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 12470 (POSSIBLE PROJECTS) You'll never see a Ni-Cad charger in CC INK unless it is part of a bigger project. While I do extend the rules to cover power supplies, remember we are the computer applications journal. Battery chargers are better left to Radio Elec. Regarding the bumper car, a true AI controlled unit would be of interest. Perhaps we'll have such a unit for the next robotics issue. --Steve Msg#:12491 *INK* 01/07/89 09:18:08 From: JOSEPH FREEMAN To: ALL Subj: IMAGEWISE TO TIFF Help! I need a program that will take imagewise pictures to TIFF format for the PC. I was going to buy the $29 utillity disk but it has ben made obsolete by a product that now costs $79. Does anyone want to sell their older disk or post a free version of the program to the board? My boss wants to put all our faces in our district news letter. Msg#:12500 *INK* 01/07/89 12:06:12 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: JOSEPH FREEMAN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 12491 (IMAGEWISE TO TIFF) The old utility disk didn't contain anything for making TIFF pictures, so I don't know what you're looking for. The ZIP program that we are marketing in place of the utility disk will produce TIFF files. ZIP does a lot more than the old utility disk, which is why we discontinued the disk and is why ZIP costs more. And if I catch anyone uploading code from any disk sold commercially (in the past or present) "as a favor" to someone, they'll be booted out of here so fast they won't know what hit them, so don't even think of suggesting it again. Msg#:12810 *INK* 01/13/89 22:37:54 From: JOSEPH FREEMAN To: KEN DAVIDSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 12500 (IMAGEWISE TO TIFF) >Msg#:12500 *INK* >01-07-89 12:06:12 >From: KEN DAVIDSON > To: JOSEPH FREEMAN (Rcvd) >Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 12491 (IMAGEWISE TO TIFF) >The old utility disk didn't contain anything for making TIFF pictures, so I >don't know what you're looking for. The ZIP program that we are marketing in >place of the utility disk will produce TIFF files. ZIP does a lot more than >the old utility disk, which is why we discontinued the disk and is why ZIP >costs more. OK, So I was wrong. I do know that it saved images in a way that could be imported to certain page layout programs. I'm not a PC jock and the terminology was wrong. >And if I catch anyone uploading code from any disk sold commercially (in the >past or present) "as a favor" to someone, they'll be booted out of here so fast >they won't know what hit them, so don't even think of suggesting it again. That's not what I said. It would be illegal and kind of a stupid thing to ask. I said >>by a product that now costs $79. Does anyone want to sell their older disk or >>post a free version of the program to the board? My boss wants to put all our Which means, to me, that I want to buy someone's disk or get a copy of a program that someone else wrote to do the same thing. I would have said "Can some one mail me the program off of the disk" if I wanted that exact program. Msg#:12891 *INK* 01/16/89 08:55:42 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: JOSEPH FREEMAN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 12810 (IMAGEWISE TO TIFF) OK. I misinterpreted what you said. When you said "post a free version of THE program" it sounded like you wanted someone who had purchased the utility disk to post a copy for your edification. Please be a little less vague next time. Msg#:13040 *INK* 01/19/89 21:43:31 From: JOSEPH FREEMAN To: KEN DAVIDSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 12891 (IMAGEWISE TO TIFF) No problem. I should be a little more spceific as to what I want. Msg#:12552 *INK* 01/08/89 17:51:51 From: GREG BELL To: ALL Subj: CC'S DIRECTION I'm a little concerned with the direction that the CCellar articles and projects are taking. They're getting to such a high level that the ideas aren't really "tinkerable" anymore. I can't just read a project article, say "that's a good idea..." and breadboard it or try a few sections of the circuit. So many of the projects are too expensive for the average hacker or experimenter to build just to fool with. Things are also getting too comercial. I'm beginning to get the idea that just 'cause I haven't bought any of Micromint's BCC-52 boards that I will be unable to build any of the projects. Msg#:12617 *INK* 01/09/89 11:27:24 From: CURT FRANKLIN To: GREG BELL (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 12552 (CC'S DIRECTION) I'm a little surprised that you see CCINK in this way, and I suspect that you're letting a few ``big'' projects that we've run skew your opinion. Sure, we are doing some rather large, complex projects. Many of our readers have told us that they liek these projects, and want to see our level of complexity increase. While I doubt that the ``Circuit Cellar GaAS Technology Supercomputer'' will show up anytime soon, we are working on some fairly impressive projects. On the other hand, you seem to be overlooking all of the 8051-based material that we've been presenting. Surely, no one can claim that 8051's are exotic technology, and most of these less complex projects have used support circuitry that is relatively easy to construct and inexpensive to purchase. Circuit Cellar INK serves an audience that is united in its interest in computer applications but quite diverse in its experience level and particular circumstances. We are trying to strike a delicate balance of editorial material that will satisfy most segments of this readership. Thanks you for taking the time to express your concern. We do plan to continue offering a mix of large- and small-scale projects, along with tutorials and other articles in the coming months. If you, or anyone else, have ideas for articles or projects, or comments on our direction, I would appreciate hearing from you. My address is: Curtis Franklin, Jr. Editor in Chief Circuit Cellar INK 4 Park Street Vernon, CT 06066 CF Msg#:12793 *INK* 01/13/89 20:07:54 From: ED NISLEY To: GREG BELL (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 12552 (CC'S DIRECTION) I, for one, am trying to get shut of these complex oddities we're working on and return to fiddling with things I actually understand... stay tuned for a couple of single-chip wonders around the middle of the year. Msg#:13391 *INK* 01/28/89 03:58:12 From: GARY LEAR To: GREG BELL (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 12552 (CC'S DIRECTION) Greg, although I understand where your comments are coming from, I cannot totally agree with your sentiment. Some of the articles are more complex than when Steve used to publish in that other magazine, but deadlines and the lack of an understanding editorial staff (at least in the latter days) may have had an influence on this. Sure, some of the projects are complex, but electronics has grown enormously in the last decade (and so have most of us). As long as Curt and Steve and the others at CCInk include enough entry material to keep newcomers interested, I for one agree with the trend of staying abreast of technology (provided the articles remain interesting and useful, technology that doesn't solve problems has little value for me). --Gary Msg#:12571 *INK* 01/08/89 21:44:34 From: TOM KREYCHE To: ED NISLEY (Rcvd) Subj: DDT-51 Ed, has anyone submitted a version of kernel.asm modified for the PseudoSam Assembler? I spent most of the day doing the conversion but am stumped on one last problem: there isn't any equivalent expression in PseudoSam for MOV A,#HIGH IE1handler. (where you get the low or high address byte) I'm a bit of a novice assembly programmer, any suggestions? Msg#:12602 *INK* 01/09/89 09:29:47 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: TOM KREYCHE Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 12571 (DDT-51) Such a version of the code has been posted here for quite some time. It is available alongside the original file in the project files section. Msg#:12573 *INK* 01/09/89 00:19:10 From: JOHN F. GREUSEL To: ALL Subj: SCANNING SONAR I would very much like to get a copy of the article in volume 4 pertaining to stepper motors and sonar distancing. If anyone would sell me their copy of INK volume 4, I would pay any unreasonable sum. Leave me a message or send it to me: John F. Greusel 7660 Industrial Dr. Forest Park, IL 60130 C/O Color Graphics Inc. Msg#:12616 *INK* 01/09/89 11:24:36 From: STEVE CIARCIA To: JOHN F. GREUSEL (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 12573 (SCANNING SONAR) Issues 1-4 are sold out. We are publishing a B&W offset reprint of CC INK first year (issues 1-6) for all those who missed out. Ink Vol I can be ordered for $20 (postpaid USA or $24 elsewhere). It will be shipped mid Feb '89. Call 203-875-2199 and ask for Rose to reserve a copy. --Steve Msg#:12728 *INK* 01/12/89 02:58:51 From: GREG BELL To: CURT FRANKLIN (Rcvd) Subj: DIRECTION Curt- Thanks for reassuring me. Your promised mix of large and small projects is ideal for me, and probably desirable for all of your other readers. INK is in a class by itself, and I will continue to support it. By expressing my concerns, I'm showing that I care about it. I think you might be right about me basing my opinion on a few large projects you've run recently. As I told Steve, if I don't plan to build a project, I can still get a lot out of it if I can build and experiment with various pieces. Its difficult to do that with many of the large projects. Thanks again... . Greg Bell Msg#:12765 *INK* 01/13/89 10:00:55 From: RANDY MERKEL To: ALL Subj: REMOTE ANALOG DATA LOGGER Howdy; I don't understand the chip-select logic of the ACIA in figure 2 in Vol 1, No 6 of CCI. Why is pin 8 of U4 (ACIA-CS0) attached to *E? Why not just tie it to +5? Randy... Msg#:13096 *INK* 01/21/89 10:34:35 From: BOB MEISTER To: RANDY MERKEL (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 12765 (REMOTE ANALOG DATA LOGGER) I looked into the 'E' signals. Yes, the 6850's CSx lines should be tied to +5 volts. I rewired the prototype and it seemed to work fine in either configuration. Additionally, the ACIA wants an 'E' signal, NOT an '*E' (inverted) signal. I also rewired the prototype and it worked fine either way. For you purists out there, the ACIA wants 'E' right from the 6809, and the Chip Select should be tied high. Maybe I was lucky, maybe it doesn't really matter, or it may be causing race conditions I was unaware of. Thanks for discovering it, however. :-) Msg#:13195 *INK* 01/23/89 15:31:33 From: RANDY MERKEL To: BOB MEISTER (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 13096 (REMOTE ANALOG DATA LOGGER) Your welcome, I've just started building a 6809 computer based on the ASSIST09 monitor described in Motorola's MC6809/E Microprocessor Programming Manual. Are You familiar with the hardware that the ASSIST09 was designed for? From the source and documentation in the manual I think I've figured it out, but I'd like to see a complete discription or schematic! Randy .... Msg#:13525 *INK* 01/30/89 20:20:26 From: BOB MEISTER To: RANDY MERKEL (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 13195 (REMOTE ANALOG DATA LOGGER) Glad to see some non-80xxxxxxxx users out there!!! Actually, I haven't done much designing with micros myself. Another person, Leo Taylor, is very knowledgable on the 6800, 6809, and 68000 processors. He is the person who designed and built the prototype A/D box, so the minor discrepancies you pointed out were probably just oversights. We were both very surprised to discover that the box worked even though it was obviously connected incorrectly according to Mototola's documentation, but luckily for us, the chips didn't read the stuff before they left the factory!!! I will tell Leo about your project. He gets on here once in a while (like me) and can possibly provide you with some very nice software for the FLEX operating system. Another source of 68xxx stuff is Peter Stark in New York state. He has the StarKit line of goodies as well as some sort of operating system/ROM available. There is a 68xxx journal (magazine) that seems to be pretty popular, but the trend these days is away from the 8-bit cpus and towards the 68K series. The January/February issue of CCInk will have the software portion of the A/D project. I wonder how many people will find discrepancies in that? One nice thing about software is that there's always at least one bug left no matter how long you work with it. -:) Msg#:13722 *INK* 02/04/89 01:36:30 From: RANDY MERKEL To: BOB MEISTER (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 13525 (REMOTE ANALOG DATA LOGGER) Thanks. What is the FLEX OS? Randy ... Msg#:12809 *INK* 01/13/89 22:32:33 From: TERRY YINGLING To: JEFF BACHIOCHI (Rcvd) Subj: SERIAL EPROM PROGRAMMER Howdy. First let me say that I am glad you have started your own magazine for construction projects. I have been buying Byte since issue 1 but have stopped buying because your article is no longer there. My question is what is a capacitor block? I am building the programmer from your basic kit of 3 parts and have to buy all the rest. Have not found the block capacitors yet. Could you also explain what Intel Hex is vice 'regular hex'? I down loaded the Epr om16 listing for the project but could not read it. It seems to be coded. Sort of surprised me when it is susposed to be in basic. Thanks and keep up the good work. Msg#:12969 *INK* 01/18/89 10:26:18 From: JEFF BACHIOCHI To: TERRY YINGLING (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 12809 (SERIAL EPROM PROGRAMMER) Terry, The capacitor block mentioned in the SEP article is in fact nothing more than a .1 ufd that happens to have .6 inch lead spacing. It should read "block capacitor" because of its shape. Any .1 ufd will do here, just insulate the bare leads of any cap used that has a smaller leading spacing. INTEL HEX is a format for sending HEX codes which breaks the code into blocks that are easily manageable and contain a plcement address of the code as well as a checksum to assure the code is received correctly. See the PC files section on this board for a utility which will convert a binary file into an INTEL HEX file and vice-versa. The SEP will send and receive INTEL HEX files. Receive a file from the SEP and look at it with the PC's "TYPE" command or a word processor. It starts with a ":" followed by the number of bytes in the block. Next is the address that the code starts at within the EPROM or ROM (2 bytes), followed by a type designation and then the actual code. The block ends with a checksum byte. This continues again and again for all the code. The file finishes with a block that is an end of file. The BASIC you speak of is actually TOKENIZED. Each BASIC command is replaced with a TOKEN (HEX value) except for the characters between quotation marks (i.e. "MENU Selction"). When the SEP is powered up , use a CTRL C to halt the program and then LIST to see the BASIC listing. NOTE: MAke sure the programming socket is EMPTY or you will destroy the EPROM in it! jeff Msg#:12994 *INK* 01/18/89 23:11:36 From: TERRY YINGLING To: JEFF BACHIOCHI (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 12969 (SERIAL EPROM PROGRAMMER) Thanks for the reply. I had a feeling the BASIC was tokenized. Is there a list of the tokens somewhere? It might be a fun project to write a program to convert the listing to english without useing the CPU to do it. Msg#:13014 *INK* 01/19/89 11:00:41 From: JEFF BACHIOCHI To: TERRY YINGLING (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 12994 (SERIAL EPROM PROGRAMMER) Terry, FUN isn't exactly the word I would use! The MSC BASIC-52 manual ($15.00 from Micromint) has what you need. This explains the commands and statements of basic as well. Search the SEP threads on this BBS for an explaination of the three parts of code within the system EPROM. If you can't find it let me know and I'll explain it again! jeff Msg#:12852 *INK* 01/14/89 14:02:21 From: MARK BALCH To: JEFF BACHIOCHI (Rcvd) Subj: CUSTOM SCHEMA OBJECTS Jeff, Hi, I jut got Schema the other day and I love it! Schematics are so easy and fun on that program. The object editor is easy to use and I have already 'created' several ICs with it. I have a question though, I have seen many DB-25 objects in articles by you and steve and I would like to make my own. I can't make one like yours though.. My question is: how do I create a db-25 object that looks like the one you used in thr last INK issue? It was great, complete with the curved 'D' shell and the 25 pins. Do I have to use the bit drawing mode to create the curves on the shell? and how did you get those small circles for the pins? I tried circle sizes or 2,3,4,5 and they were either too big or so small that they didn;t look like circles. Thanks, Mark Msg#:12982 *INK* 01/18/89 12:25:44 From: JEFF BACHIOCHI To: MARK BALCH (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 12852 (CUSTOM SCHEMA OBJECTS) Mark, It is so easy when all I have to do is say yes! You've got the right idea! It takes a bit of working back and forth to get it right but you only have to do it once. While you are there take the DB25 and squash it down for DB15s and DB9s it will save time later if you make'em all while your at it! jeff Msg#:13117 *INK* 01/21/89 17:07:21 From: MARK BALCH To: JEFF BACHIOCHI (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 12982 (CUSTOM SCHEMA OBJECTS) Thanks. So I have to use the bit image option for those curves and circles? Darn. I was hoping for an easy way, but ONWARD! I'll let you know how I make out with the objects. One thing though. I have seen many articles with schematics having jumpers. All the jumpers look alike and have diamond shaped pins. Is that object a standard library item or does everyone make them the same way? Bye, Mark Msg#:13239 *INK* 01/24/89 15:27:04 From: JEFF BACHIOCHI To: MARK BALCH (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 13117 (CUSTOM SCHEMA OBJECTS) Mark, I have a library of jumpers, from 1x1s through 3x8s. They represent BERG type square pin headers. I could say the diamond represents the square pin, but it just looked the best! You can cheat a bit if you use two inverter headers with the circles closest to one another. Just draw a box around 'em. jeff Msg#:13403 *INK* 01/28/89 13:17:47 From: MARK BALCH To: JEFF BACHIOCHI (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 13239 (CUSTOM SCHEMA OBJECTS) Thanks! I'm gonna take some time off and sit down with the object editor. My first priority is to make DB-25/DB-9 objects and then I'll take care of the other jumper types. I was in a rush last week, so I used inverting pin headers and made 2 rows of 20 for a 40 pin connector. It works very well. I drew a box around the 40 headers and now I have the right object for the job. Bye, Mark Msg#:13001 *INK* 01/19/89 02:47:28 From: GREG BELL To: ALL Subj: 8031 I/O INTERFACING Perhaps I was a little unclear on my question about memory mapping I/O devices to an 8031. I realize any 8255s tacked on are essentially memory mapped. What my I/O devices are, though, are chips (many of them, at least) that require latch signals, R/W signals, Enable signals, etc. If I hooked them up to some of an 8255's output ports, then I'd be using an extra port bit for each Enable or R/W signal each chip needed. These kinds of signals are, however, generated by the CPU... so since the chips can be tri-stated, wouldn't it be better to just hang everybody off the busses, and generate the timing signals with a few gates and a 16-1 demux? Are there any disadvantages to doing things this way? . Greg Bell Msg#:13009 *INK* 01/19/89 09:03:57 From: JONATHAN LYNN To: GREG BELL (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 13001 (8031 I/O INTERFACING) Greg, The only disadvantage of your approach that I can think of off the top of my head, is the number of devices that can be driven on the bus from the 8031. A 8255 gives you 3 ports, while only loading the bus with one input, whereas the equivilent in TTL gates would load it three times as much. The alternative is to use a bus driver. This would eliminate any problems with overloading the bus. As for any other possible problems , you will have to see what anyone else has to say. regards, Jon. Msg#:13015 *INK* 01/19/89 11:34:17 From: JEFF BACHIOCHI To: GREG BELL (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 13001 (8031 I/O INTERFACING) Greg, A '245 on AD0-7 is the way to go! That is unless you like coding the sequencing of the control lines for each perif you add. Or if you need a full 64K of RAM (the I/O space is shared with data space 'RAM'.) The 8031 can only drive 4 TTL loads on this port! And you can use that up with just memory, real fast..... jeff Msg#:13002 *INK* 01/19/89 02:47:52 From: GREG BELL To: ALL Subj: 8031 TIMERS A question: Why doesn't this work??? MOV TMOD, #1 ;Setup timer 0 for Mode 1 MOV R3, #255 ;set loop counter to execute delay 255 times WaitLoop: SETB TR0 ;enable timer (does it need to be disabled ;at the end of the loop segment?) JNB TF0, * ;loop until overflow (this DOES loop correctly) ;*=location counter at beginning of instruction CLR TF0 ;clear overflow (is this necessary???) DJNZ R3, WaitLoop ;and as long as R3 isn't zero yet, continue I'm trying to get a delay that's longer than (1x10^-6 secs)*65535. I really don't want to have to resort to nested software delay loops. This is the only place where the Intel Microcontroller manual hasn't helped me out much. I'm still not clear as to whether the TF0 bit gets reset by the hardware or not. Also, do the timer value registers contain zeros by default? . Greg Bell Msg#:13016 *INK* 01/19/89 11:48:31 From: JEFF BACHIOCHI To: GREG BELL (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 13002 (8031 TIMERS) Greg, The TF0 is set by the hardware when TIMER0 overflows. It is reset by the hardware when RETI is executed in an interrupt routine. You are using a polling technique, not an interrupt, so it is up to you to clear it or you will loop quickly because the TF0 is always set. The values in TIMER0 will roll over from zero. Without seting the values at the start of your routine you can't be sure exactly where in the count you stand. Remember if the TIMER is running there will probably be a TF0 when you enter the routine! jeff Msg#:13041 *INK* 01/19/89 21:56:56 From: STEVEN HARGUS To: GREG BELL (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 13002 (8031 TIMERS) Have you got the most recent INTEL book on microcontrollers? The newer books now include a programmer's guide for the 8051, which gives VERY THOROUGH descriptions of each bit and function of the 8051. If you have a local INTEL rep and you talk nice to him (her?) they'll probably just give you a new book, especially since it's the end of the year and they want to get rid of last year's books. Msg#:13042 *INK* 01/19/89 22:29:14 From: JOSEPH FREEMAN To: ED NISLEY (Rcvd) Subj: DDT51 CHANGES? I know you get a lot of mail but.... It seems that most emulator/debuggers use their own emulation memory as program space instead of replacing eproms with RAMS on the board. Also they try to make use of as few resources as possible. Why couldn't you put an extra ram on the DDT-51 for code space and pull the eprom on the target system. This would make it alot easier to load code space from host. Also if you did that then all of the interrupt vectors would be fetched from DDT-51. This would allow you to use the INT pin to break into the monitor without giving up that feature for the user target. A 'simple' arbitration circuit decides if the INT is generated by the host. If so, then part of the DEBUG RAM is layed in at the int vector address, or JAMMED, so that the DEBUG vector is loaded. Any other interrupts would not cause the JAM so the user code/RAM would be accessed as normal. If this was beyond the scope of the project, then 'never mind'. Msg#:13281 *INK* 01/25/89 17:43:54 From: ED NISLEY To: JOSEPH FREEMAN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 13042 (DDT51 CHANGES?) Here's the secret to why we did DDT-51 "that way"... Think Cheap! Basically, we had to choose between a "real" ICE system and something that did the absolute bare minimum required to be useful. What you see is pretty close to the latter; you've got to make some compromises in your target system to use the thing. On the other hand, the cost is somewhere between zero and dirt cheap, even if you buy one of the boards we've been forced to build in response to all you folks asking for 'em! Not bad, eh? Frankly, using up half of the available interrupts was probably a mistake. But you can fix that with a couple of gates to combine the two... I'll leave it up to you! Sometimes I kick myself when I look back at the way I did something a while ago, but there's rarely time to go back and fix it up. Maybe next time we'll get it right the first time. But, more likely, it'll be off in another direction. So it goes! Msg#:13061 *INK* 01/20/89 10:31:35 From: RANDY MERKEL To: CURT FRANKLIN (Rcvd) Subj: REMOTE ANALOG DATA LOGGER Howdy; I have some questions about the schematics that appered in CCI Vol. 1 No. 6 "Build A Remote Analog Data Logger" by R.W.Meister. I would normally send these questions to Mr. Meister, but I don't know if he is a member of this BBS, and if so, how should I "address" E-Mail to him? My questions are about Figure 2 The CPU and Communications Blocks on page 47. 1) *E is shown attached to U4 (ACIA) pins 14 and 8 - should pin 8 be attached to +5 and pin 8 to E (not *E)? 2) on page 48 Mr Meister describes the ACIA Clock Generator as "takes the 1-MHz 'E' signal" but figure 2 shows *E attached to U7 pin 2!. I'm looking for any sources on 6809 & family computers, I hope to build a small 6809 computer. Thanks, Randy..... Msg#:13097 *INK* 01/21/89 10:40:19 From: BOB MEISTER To: RANDY MERKEL (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 13061 (REMOTE ANALOG DATA LOGGER) Thanks for pointing these items out. The data rate circuitry uses the 'E' or '*E' signal. It doesn't matter which. It is a generic 1MHz clock signal that is divided down. The ACIA, however, appears to want a real 'E' signal, not the '*E' that it was built with. I rewired the original prototype and it worked fine either way. Hopefully, this isn't critical in the operation of the ACIA, but to be absolutely correct, it should be using the 'E' signal right out of the 6809. Similarly, the 'E' signal shouldn't be going to the chip select of the 6850; the CS line should be tied to its neighbor at +5 volts. I also rewired the prototype for this modification and it worked exactly as before, so maybe I was lucky, or the chip really doesn't care in this particular configuration. There is another response to this same topic on the bbs. Thanks for pointing these inconsistencies out. :-) Msg#:13066 *INK* 01/20/89 15:36:52 From: MIKE GALLAGHER To: CURT FRANKLIN (Rcvd) Subj: BACK ISSUES Hey, I got a notice of bound issues of 1-6 available.Did not know that was going to happen. Otherwise I would have not ordered the back issues - missing 1, 2, 3 -. Is there any "trade in value" on the loose issues if I want to purchase the bound set in order to get 1, 2, & 3? regards - Mike Msg#:13168 *INK* 01/23/89 08:17:23 From: CURT FRANKLIN To: MIKE GALLAGHER (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 13066 (BACK ISSUES) Mike - You didn+t know about the bound back issues because we didn+t know about them. The demand for back issues from the first year of CCINK has just been overwhelming. After hearing literally hundreds of pleas for copmlete sets, our publisher decided that we had to offer reprints. The book represents the best way for us to do that. I+m afraid that there can+t be any ``trade-in++ for old single issues. I+m sympathetic to your situation, but the logistics and economics of doing a trade-in program would simply be impossible. Look on the bright side...those issues you have may well be collectible. If you really want to unload them, you might try posting a message here offering them for sale. There have been a lot of people looking for copies of single issues. Curtis Franklin Editor in Chief Circuit Cellar INK Msg#:13079 *INK* 01/20/89 20:27:28 From: DALE REID To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: DAYTON, OH Steve. Me again. Any plans for CCI to have a table at Dayton? If not, I'd like to get about 500 cards to take with me, and if you have any color info that I might laminate and use to intice hopeful subscribers. Dale Msg#:13145 *INK* 01/22/89 15:51:06 From: STEVE CIARCIA To: DALE REID (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 13079 (DAYTON, OH) I don't think we are going to Dayaton but we are about to do another big mailing in the spring. In about a month I will have extra 4-color 4-page CC INK promos and sub cards that you can have to pass out. Keep in touch and I'll make sure you get them. Thanks for spreading the word. --Steve Msg#:13081 *INK* 01/20/89 21:48:09 From: JOHN NAPOLI To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: SUGGESTED PROJECTS steve, i'd like to suggest two projects for consideration. one is fairly straightforward, the other is more complex. the first would be a device used to cycle nicad batteries. it would discharge them to a safe level and then recharge them. such a device would greatly ease the maintenance of nicads, and woulld help extend their life. the second project would be a control circuit that would be added to a remote controlled toy. the toy would be assumed to have the capability of forward and reverse movement, and steering left and right. the control circuit would permit continuous operation through the avoidance of obstacles. presumably, a sonar or infrared sensor would be used to sense an obstruction. a logic circuit would plot a new route. this is not a trivial project but it would have lots of applications. Msg#:13147 *INK* 01/22/89 16:09:17 From: STEVE CIARCIA To: JOHN NAPOLI Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 13081 (SUGGESTED PROJECTS) The second project offers some interest for a robotics issue. No it isn't a trivial project. Your first project might be a solution looking for a problem. The whole problem about NiCds is to make sure they are discharged before recharging of they will form a "memory" from the point of capacity where they are charged. While you could use a CRAY-XMP to plot, control, supervise the discrarge-recharge cycle, you might instead want to do as I do. When it comes to recharging flashlights, tools, etc I follow the following rules: 1) If it costs less that $10 don't worry about it! Buy another if it doesn't work as long as you remembered it should. 2) In the case of power tools (the ones with $50+ batteries) I buy an extra battery. Start by charging both batteries. Use one battery until the tools stops (figuratively) and then install the spare. Immediately charge the first battery then put it aside as the new spare (usually they are 1 hour fast chargers). Use the previous spare installed in the tool until it too bites the sawdust and then repeat the whole process again. Never put a battery that has only been partially used into the charger. 3) Finally, in the case of flashlights (I have a couple that cost $100 each so they don't fir the $10 rule), vacuum cleaners, low priced drills (the ones that take 14 hrs to charge), etc, that have been out of their constant current chargers for a long time (weeks?), I usually turn them on and let them run down before sticking them back into the charger. The "memory" can be erased if you do the latter a couple times in a row. --Steve Msg#:13154 *INK* 01/22/89 18:23:02 From: EDWARD WOOD To: MARK VOORHEES (Rcvd) Subj: WEATHER CENTRE Hi Mark! Just a question about parts for the weather centre. Are blank PC boards available? I don't have the money to buy the whole kit for the peripheral processor but could afford to buy the bare board and the PALS and populate the board as my budget allows. Could you leave me a message and tell me about the availablity of the bare boards. Msg#:13213 *INK* 01/23/89 22:55:01 From: GEORGE NICOLACOPULOS To: ALL Subj: S-100 STUFF I have an old (OLD) Northstar Horizon computer (Z80) sitting here collecting dust. It has 2 floppy disk drives, 32K of memory, a couple of serial ports, etc. Also a spare or 2 8K memory boards. The sucker weighs probably 50 pounds. Last time I used it (a year or so ago) it worked. If anyone is interested in making an offer, please leave a message. I need the space. Also have an old Hazeltine terminal with it. I think the terminal was called the "Modular II". Thanks, George Msg#:13358 *INK* 01/27/89 10:53:07 From: JOHN APPLEYARD To: MARK VOORHEES (Rcvd) Subj: HUMIDITY SENSORS Can I hook those HEATH/ZENITH humidity sensors (on their weather station) up to an A/D running on a BCC-180? I really don't need all the other paraphanalia, just the humidity. I can get the sensor modules through the Heath spare parts system. Thanks...... Regards........ Msg#:13388 *INK* 01/28/89 01:40:57 From: MARK VOORHEES To: JOHN APPLEYARD (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 13358 (HUMIDITY SENSORS) John; The Heath sensors operate using a pulse width scheme, not a variation of voltage, to measure relative humidity. I don't see a reason why they cannot be operated into a port of some sort, but I suspect that it would be difficult to maintain accuracy, due to the variable "housekeeping" that the computer does. I'm sure our readers would be interested in any successes you might have experimenting with the sensors in this way. Let me know if I can provide any further information to help. Mark Voorhees Msg#:13539 *INK* 01/30/89 23:38:05 From: FRANK KUECHMANN To: JOHN APPLEYARD (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 13358 (HUMIDITY SENSORS) John -- Regarding your questions on humidity transducers: Humidity sensor: Mepco/Electra #232269190001 capacitive humidity sensor. Made by Philips Electronics [Netherlands]. Call 816/325-7871 for name/address of nearest distributor. Feb '86 RADIO-ELECTRONICS had a humidity sensor project. A small kit of parts to make a variable frequency humidity sensor using the Philips capacitor in a 555 timer astable oscillator circuit can be obtained from: Vernier Software 2920 SW 89th St Portland OR 97225 503/297-5317 The kit includes the capacitor itself, 555, and miscellaneous parts to hook up to an Apple ][-series computer's game controller port. The parts could easilly be used to work with about any 1-bit input port you can read with machine code. Cost of the kit is something like $25 [that humidity sensitive cap is pricey]; contact Vernier. Vernier sells a book called "How to Build a Better Mousetrap" with a humidity monitor [Apple II] as one of the projects; the discussion of measurement is very good. Worth it even if you don't have an Apple ][. I don't know of any reasonable way to use an A-D/C with this type of sensor without invoking the memory of Rube Goldberg. The obvious way to do it [without benefit of St. Rube] is to measure the frequency of an astable 555-oscillator with the humidity sensor as the capacitive element. Use 1 bit of a parallel port for input and test the level of that input inside a software timing loop [machine code preferred] for a known period of time, counting input transitions; driving the high bit and testing the sign flag is one quick way]. Convert that into relative humidity. There is some error inherrent in the use of the software loop, but well-written machine code minimizes it. A better way would be to use a PIA of some sort with built-in counter/timers: use one timer in a 1-shot mode and an external gate to input the 555-oscillator's output into the other counter/timer for a known length of time programmed into the first timer. In a 6502 or 6809 system, I'd use a 6522 VIA with its timers. Accuracy of the frequency measurement is the same as the system clock's accuracy. There's probably a similar way to do it with a 64180. Msg#:13585 *INK* 02/01/89 07:43:07 From: JOHN APPLEYARD To: FRANK KUECHMANN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 13539 (HUMIDITY SENSORS) Thanks for the info. I am sure that I will have additional questions after I digest your input. Again, thanks for the response. Regards....................... Msg#:13951 *INK* 02/09/89 07:24:13 From: GARY LEAR To: JOHN APPLEYARD (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 13358 (HUMIDITY SENSORS) You can use an A/D input by going back in time to the old single slope A/D converter. Use a precision integrator with the sensing cap in the feedback path. Use a voltage comparator (or the A/D itself, if it is fast enough) to detect a reference voltage; i.e. 1 volt. A precision time base (a hardware counter chain divided down from the master clock avoids the inherent ambiguity of a built-in timer) then runs and ultimately triggers the A/D conversion. The resulting voltage is linearly proportional to the capacitance (*not* necessarily to the parameter being measured) and may be readily adjusted by the processor if needed. There is undoubtedly a better way to do this (don't forget to reset the integrator before each conversion). Good luck! --Gary Msg#:14293 *INK* 02/16/89 15:24:59 From: JOHN APPLEYARD To: GARY LEAR (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 13951 (HUMIDITY SENSORS) What about those frequency-to -voltage converters that I rememeber reading about a few yeas ago (for some reason, the number 7660 sticks in my mind)? Is there such an animal? I remember seeing a simple circuit of such in those experimenter booklets by Forrest Mimms III that you could buy at Radio Shak. Could that work? Thanks for your help. Regards................. Msg#:14325 *INK* 02/17/89 04:26:13 From: GARY LEAR To: JOHN APPLEYARD (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 14293 (HUMIDITY SENSORS) Once the signal is in a form that varies (preferably a linear one) with capacitance, it can be converted to almost anything else. If you have an oscillator already, the output can be accurately converted to a voltage level. This works best if the frequency is toward the upper end of the F-V range (10KHz typical range), since this reduces response time and reduces ripple. The LM331 is a good choice for V-F and F-V conversion. If you do not have an oscillator, try using the sensor in a LM322 precision timer. Trigger the timer and gate a high frequency time base with the timer output. The counted time base will represent the sensor reading. BTW, this is a good task for a microcontroller, espically the 68HC11. Good luck, and let me know if I can be of any more help. --Gary Msg#:14365 *INK* 02/17/89 12:24:49 From: BOB PADDOCK To: JOHN APPLEYARD (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 14293 (HUMIDITY SENSORS) The 7660 is generaly used as a power supply IC to convert +5 VDC to -5 VDC. Msg#:14377 *INK* 02/17/89 18:10:41 From: BRUCE WEBB To: JOHN APPLEYARD (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 14293 (HUMIDITY SENSORS) By the way, I recall seeing a resistive humidity sensor a few years ago that is used in balloon radiosondes. It was a plastic card (actually some kind of foam) impregnated with a conductive material (electrolytic or something) and absorbed water changes the resistance. The only question might be the life of such a gadget as the balloons have a short life. The company using them was Space Data Corp. in Tempe AZ. Msg#:14990 *INK* 02/27/89 10:28:23 From: JOHN APPLEYARD To: BRUCE WEBB (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 14377 (HUMIDITY SENSORS) Thanks Bruce, I'll give em a call. Msg#:13464 *INK* 01/29/89 23:53:54 From: KEVIN DAVIS To: RUSSELL LINDGREN AND EVERYONE ELSE Subj: PALS Russell Lindgren's digital oscilloscope (Sep-Oct 1988 INK) is a great project. I'm currently working on another project that this scope would be perfect for. Only problem is that I have no PAL programmer. I'm wondering if there is a project out there for a PAL programmer. Of course, if I stop to make a PAL programmer for the scope, I may never get my original project completed. I hate it when that happens. Is there anyone out there who might be willing to program these critters for me, for a small fee ? Help ! Msg#:13579 *INK* 02/01/89 02:21:49 From: JIM REMINGTON To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: X-10 RECEIVER Dear Steve: I am interested in using the X-10 protocol for purposes other than controlling devices. On several occasions you have said you were considering designing a receiver. On the basis of an Ink issue last summer, I was able to construct a working transmitter from parts I got from two old push button controllers which is functionally the same as the PL513. How about a design which is not locked in to a special chip, and the particular codes X-10 uses? (I like the way the bits are sent, though...). Ink is great! Msg#:13596 *INK* 02/01/89 09:37:58 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: JIM REMINGTON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 13579 (X-10 RECEIVER) In issue #5 of INK, I have a follow-up article which describes a module from X-10 similar to the PL513 but also receives X-10 codes. It seems kind of senseless to reinvent the wheel by designing a circuit with off-the-shelf parts that costs $50-$100 when you can buy the same thing from X-10 for $10-$20 and have it all in a nice little package. The two-way module is the TW523 and is available from X-10. Msg#:13668 *INK* 02/02/89 22:43:22 From: JIM REMINGTON To: KEN DAVIDSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 13596 (X-10 RECEIVER) Dear Ken: I appreciate your response to my message to Steve. If it is true that the receiver is available from X-10 for $10-$20, then I am interested. However, issue 6 of INK only says it will be available "later" (see X-10 ad). Also, I have a well stocked junkbox, and what may cost others $50-$100 to construct often does not cost me a dime. Since Steve has stated he was considering this project (designing a receiver) in response to X-10 initially unwilling to release schematics of their interface transmitter modeul, I didn't think the question completely stupid. Also, I note that I somewhere saw an ad for the transmitter alone for $59. Therefore, X-10 isn't competing with Radio Shack when it comes to selling their parts. Jim Msg#:13658 *INK* 02/02/89 15:18:35 From: JOHN G. NAPOLI To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG 13147 Steve, thanks for your several responses to my suggested projects. Hopefully, I will no longer be redundant and repeat myself........ You're probably right about not needing an elaborate system to maintain ni-cads, and besides by CRAY-XMP is busy running the program that optimizes all management problems. My frustration was the many (expensive) ni-cads I use for video equipment. I don't like to take the time to cycle them all to discharge, nor do I like to operate the equipment needlessly. If reality, I've been doing the types of things y you mentioned. I'll probably just connect them to a 12v bulb. Regarding the AI-controlled bumper car (actually, a not-bumper car), I would love to see that featured in a robotics issue. I would even volunteer to participate - like in the construction of the vehicle or whatever. Thanks again. Msg#:13691 *INK* 02/03/89 13:10:40 From: JOHN G. NAPOLI To: KEN DAVIDSON (Rcvd) Subj: AUTOMATED CAR Ken, thanks for the feedback regarding the college paper that described, albeit poorly, an automated car such as the one I suggested as an INK project. Do you have a copy of that paper, or do you know where I can get one? I'd like to eyeball it. Thanks. Msg#:13727 *INK* 02/04/89 03:04:37 From: FRANK HENRIQUEZ To: RANDY MERKEL (Rcvd) Subj: FLEX OS Randy: FLEX is a DOS for 68xxx based machines. The original Flex ran on 6800 computers made by SWTP, back in the late 70's and early 80's. When the 6809 came out, TSC (the folks who wrote FLEX) came out with a version for the 6809. Flex is pretty simple and easy to use; its nicer than CP/M, but lacks many of the features of MS-DOS (subdirectories, mainly). One interesting thing about Flex is that it is very easy to port from one 6809 machine to another. The only system dependent routines are for I/O, and they are accessed through jump tables so to move Flex from one machine to another only requires a change in jump tables and new I/O routines. I haven't used Flex since '84; I think StarDOS is the closest equivalent now, and has probably expanded the capa bilities of Flex. Frank Msg#:13825 *INK* 02/06/89 15:58:58 From: JOE PIERCY To: KEN DAVIDSON (Rcvd) Subj: SPOOLER Ken, I want to build a spooler for my PC. But, I want to build it as an option card that goes inside the box. I envision a microporcessor on-board communicating with the PC via a parallel port on the bus. Local static ram (maybe only 64 Kb would be enough for my purposes) would do the buffering. I'd like the thing to be intelligent, and to communicatewith the host bi-directionally through the parallel port. That wayI could send it commands, instead of just data (like back up 5 pages, what's in the queue?, etc...). A program written in Quick Basic (or anything, for that matter) would present a niceuser interface on the host. So now that I've convinced you that this is a really swell idea,here's the question. How does the PC interface work? I've seenexperimenters cards advertised that seem to offer access to thePC bus, but they are expensive. Has anyone offered a cookbookexample to PC interfacing that I can study? I've fooled aroundwith 8031's 'ala SC's articles, and have gotten some things to work,so I'm not too worried about the part that comes after the interface.but getting the data onto and off of the PC bus definitely has meconcerned. How should I approach this? Joe Piercy PS - If anyone else besides Ken has suggestions, they'd be very welcome... PS2 - it looks like my upload only partially worked ... sorry... Msg#:13828 *INK* 02/06/89 17:20:17 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: JOE PIERCY (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 13825 (SPOOLER) As for the upload, try using something like XMODEM next time. Answering such a question is far too involved for a BBS message. There have been a few other messages in the past few days where several people recommended books similar to what you're looking for. Scan through messages posted during the last week and see what you can find. I'm not the one to be asking about IBM PC interfacing. Msg#:13850 *INK* 02/07/89 09:42:21 From: JEFF BACHIOCHI To: JOE PIERCY (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 13825 (SPOOLER) Joe, Seems like a lot of work for a dedicated PC spooler. DOS "PRINT" does a fine job of background printing! jeff Msg#:13875 *INK* 02/07/89 22:11:30 From: JOE PIERCY To: KEN DAVIDSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 13828 (SPOOLER) OK - thanks Ken. I'll look around. Msg#:13877 *INK* 02/07/89 22:16:20 From: JOE PIERCY To: JEFF BACHIOCHI (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 13850 (SPOOLER) DOS print is fine, it is true, but I'd like a few more bells and whistles. Also, print really gets very slow when something is going on in the foregorund. Listening to the printer start and stop in syncopation with my activity drives me nuts. Also, it just seems like a nice idea. But it is going to be work... Msg#:13952 *INK* 02/09/89 07:53:31 From: GARY LEAR To: JOE PIERCY (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 13825 (SPOOLER) Using the PC interface is not that difficult. For a first time effort I recommend using one of the prototyping cards. Check with Jameco and some of the other discount places for a $20-$30 card. IBM originals are *much* more. The earily IBM tech manuals are very helpful with schematics and other good info, and I hear that there are several books on the interface subject. Send me a message if you have questions. Good luck! --Gary Msg#:13958 *INK* 02/09/89 09:20:29 From: CURT FRANKLIN To: GARY LEAR (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 13952 (SPOOLER) And don't forget to drop me a line when you're through. If you do it right, this sounds like it could make a nice project for Circuit Cellar INK.] Curt Franklin Editor in Chief Circuit Cellar INK Msg#:14035 *INK* 02/11/89 03:37:46 From: GARY LEAR To: CURT FRANKLIN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 13958 (SPOOLER) Curt, I was only supplying advice on using the internal PC bus. I do have several projects that I have considered writing an article for however. My expertise lies in microcontroller systems design (hardware, software, and their integration), PC interfaces, and sensors; especially mobile robot sensors and the related signal processing. Please send me a message and let me know if there is something that I might focus on. I have free time through the end of this month and I would like to make a significant start on an article. Thanks, and BTW, you guys are doing a great job. --Regards, Gary. Msg#:14052 *INK* 02/11/89 13:55:32 From: JOE PIERCY To: GARY LEAR (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 13952 (SPOOLER) Gary, I'm confused on one point. There seem to be two types of boards out. One decodes the bus in some fashion, and costs more, and the other is strictly for prototyp(e?)ing. I presume you're referring to the former. I found one in Jameco that seems to be the more elaborate type, and I think i'll order it. As far as books, I have one Sam's book on the subject which seems to have been written by a one-time IBM engineer (Egglebrecht?) that is pretty good. He shows how to decode specific addresses which I need to do in order to act like a parallel port at the parallel port address in roder to intercept data intended for the printer. But I'm still looking for the ultimate book. Thanks for the response. If I ever get this done I'll let you know. And if anyone else knows of literature on the subject, send me some mail. Msg#:14072 *INK* 02/12/89 04:48:54 From: GARY LEAR To: JOE PIERCY (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 14052 (SPOOLER) There are actually two types of prototyping cards (I thought about this in my first message, sorry I didn't mention it). The original IBM card was $50 or more and included printed circuitry for I/O decoding purposes. Chips were slightly unusual and *not* included (a Vcc connection was also missing, drove me crazy at first since I didn't expect a defective design). The I/O space was predefined for HEX 300-31F inclusive (active low), which is the official prototyping space. You will not be able to use one of these cards for your purpose without modifying the decode circuitry (I have done this, I don't reccommend it). For my money, Big Blue caused the enable line to be excessively delayed by their choice of decoding logic. The other proto board that has appeared on the market was introduced by third party people to supply the need for a board that is totally open ended in terms of memory access, I/O decoding, etc. These boards are much cheaper and they provide maximum board space. I need to revise my original statement that a first project should use a proto board. Since you need specific addresses (HEX 378-37F) for the parallel printer port, the unmapped board is preferable. It is very simple to interface to the bus with a couple of drivers (I use HCT devices to minimize loading and power dissipation). A HCT688 magnitude comparator and a simple gate will provide fast and easily configurable address decoding. The only other caveat that I can give you at the moment is to be sure to include enough drive capability on the output to your printer (and terminating resistors of course). I hope this helps and I appologize if I said too many obvious things. Let me know if I can be of assistance. Good luck! --Regards, Gary Msg#:14131 *INK* 02/13/89 23:25:04 From: JOE PIERCY To: GARY LEAR (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 14072 (SPOOLER) That was useful information. I found a design in a recent Micro Cornucopia issue similar to what you describe with the magnitude comparator, and it looks like just the thing. Before I do anything else, I am going to have to study the IBM Technical Reference Guide to see how they pack printer status information into the IO locations - this may affect my design. Again, thanks... Msg#:14139 *INK* 02/14/89 03:20:09 From: GARY LEAR To: JOE PIERCY (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 14131 (SPOOLER) Glad to help. The standard IBM printer port may be read back by just inputting the desired port location. If I recall correctly, status is determined by reading the following I/O ports: 3BD. Printer data is at 3BC and printer control is 3BE. All addresses are in hex. Some people will tell you that you can use the existing port in a bidirectional mode. I won't say that you can't, all you have to do is write 0FF to the data port and read it back. This mechanism was originally included as a diagnostic tool. The problem with using it bidirectionally is that you run the risk of damaging the output drivers if you have not set the port lines high. It is fairly easy to modify (as I believe Ed Nisley did in a recent article) the standard board for safe op eration. If portability is not an issue, you may wish to do this. Please let me know how you are doing and if I can be of any more help. --Gary Msg#:13852 *INK* 02/07/89 10:40:09 From: RANDY MERKEL To: FRANK HENRIQUEZ (Rcvd) Subj: MOTOROLA ASSEMBLERS BUG Howdy; I discovered a bug in the Motorola Cross Assemblers from the FreeWare BBS, as0.exe, as1.exe - as11.exe will leave lost clusters every time they are run! If you have the source, File: ffwd.c, function: fwdinit(), Line: 25: delete the unlink() call. This deletes the forward reference file after it was just opened! Strange no one has noticed this before! Randy ........ Msg#:13862 *INK* 02/07/89 13:32:51 From: TIMOTHY TAYLOR To: CURT FRANKLIN (Rcvd) Subj: JAN - FEB ISSUE i WAS WONDERING IF THE JAM/FEB ISSUES HAVE BEEN SENT. I HAVE NOT YET RX THESE ISSUES (HOPEFULLY THE DOG DIDN'T EAT 'EM). Msg#:13865 *INK* 02/07/89 15:09:54 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: TIMOTHY TAYLOR (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 13862 (JAN - FEB ISSUE) The Jan/Feb '89 issue is just starting to mail. Everyone should be receiving it within the next two weeks or so. Msg#:13918 *INK* 02/08/89 16:39:27 From: TIMOTHY TAYLOR To: KEN DAVIDSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 13865 (JAN - FEB ISSUE) Thanks. I can now stop wondering if my dog did eat it. Msg#:13885 *INK* 02/08/89 00:24:02 From: JOHN MUCHOW To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 9455 (LASER WRITING) Steve, the Jan 1989 issue of NASA Tech Briefs has an ad from BEI Motion Systems Company, 150 Vallecitos de Oro, San Marcos, CA 92069, Phone 619-744-5671, that features their rotary and linear actuators for laser scanning. I don't know their prices, but it may be worth a call if you are still looking for the hardware. Msg#:13900 *INK* 02/08/89 10:21:55 From: STEVE CIARCIA To: JOHN MUCHOW (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 13885 (LASER WRITING) Thanks, I have it around here someplace. I'll check into it. --Steve Msg#:13886 *INK* 02/08/89 00:33:46 From: JOHN MUCHOW To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 9455 (LASER WRITING) The ad for the mirror actuators is from the Kimco Magnetics Division of BEI. Their ad says that you can create a raster scan with their products so they have the speed you need. The ad is on page 50 if you have the issue. Msg#:14105 *INK* 02/13/89 13:07:54 From: MICHAEL ARDAI To: KEN DAVIDSON (Rcvd) Subj: IMAGEWISE PC Steve- Do you know of a source for the DG202 switch? It is not in the experimenter's kit, and I can't seem to find it in any of the usual places (Arrow, Newark, etc.) The 201 is available, but the control lines are inverted, and I would rather not have to hack a $400 board just to get it to run. /mike Msg#:14167 *INK* 02/14/89 12:19:25 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: MICHAEL ARDAI (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 14105 (IMAGEWISE PC) I wasn't able to find a source either, which is why I thought we decided to include it in the experimenters kit. I'll push to have it included if it isn't, so don't worry about it. Msg#:14169 *INK* 02/14/89 13:05:44 From: MICHAEL ARDAI To: KEN DAVIDSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 14167 (IMAGEWISE PC) Thanks. Someone just told me that the LF13202 from National may work... I haven't had a chance to check the specs on it though. /mike Msg#:14207 *INK* 02/15/89 08:36:50 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: MICHAEL ARDAI (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 14169 (IMAGEWISE PC) Yes, the original schematics had an LF13202 drawn on them, but was changed to the DG202 in the final list, so the LF13202 should work OK. Msg#:14231 *INK* 02/15/89 15:02:42 From: STEVE CIARCIA To: KEN DAVIDSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 14167 (IMAGEWISE PC) DO the LF13202 and DG202 have the same pinout and risetime? --Steve Msg#:14234 *INK* 02/15/89 15:22:18 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 14231 (IMAGEWISE PC) Pinout is the same and from what I can tell, the specs are close enough that either should work. The funny part is, though, that the equivalent to the DG202 is the LF13201 and the DG201 equivalent is the LF13202. The DG202 and LF13201 have normally closed switches and the DG201 and LF13202 have normally open. Msg#:14236 *INK* 02/15/89 15:36:20 From: STEVE CIARCIA To: KEN DAVIDSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 14234 (IMAGEWISE PC) Have you added this cross-reference and a possible source to the procurement list? --Steve Msg#:14138 *INK* 02/14/89 03:07:47 From: FRANK HENRIQUEZ To: JOE PIERCY (Rcvd) Subj: IBM PC PROTOTYPING BOARDS Computer Parts Galore (they advertise in Computer Shopper) has a couple of good, inexpensive PC prototyping boards. They have a generic board with no circuitry - just pads. They also have a memory prototyping board; 1/3 of it has been etched with DRAM pinouts - enough for 256K - 1 meg of ram. Both of these board run around $20. They also sell a variety of other bare boards. Msg#:14164 *INK* 02/14/89 11:27:25 From: STEVE CIARCIA To: FRANK HENRIQUEZ (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 14138 (IBM PC PROTOTYPING BOARDS) JDR has prototype boards in their CC INK ad. --Steve Msg#:14383 *INK* 02/17/89 21:32:51 From: JOE PIERCY To: FRANK HENRIQUEZ (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 14138 (IBM PC PROTOTYPING BOARDS) Thanks, Frank. I've now got one more reason to pick up a new Shopper. Msg#:14216 *INK* 02/15/89 10:30:47 From: DAVID K. MERRIMAN To: STEVE/STAFF Subj: CCINK Just thought that I would toss in my two cents worth, on the subject of CCInk atricles/projects..... While I enjoy the vast majority of the articles, I must admit that I would like to see a few projects that were NOT computer-dependent, ie, stand-alone logic analyser, RS232 Breakout Box, etc. Also, the occaisional tutorial or "More about....." article would be appreciated for those of us that don't work just with computers, and thus need a bit of a refresher or tutorial now and then. Subjects might be "How to add more memory than your system was designed for, and then bank it or use it as RAMdisk", or "Interfacing to disk drives", etc. Maybe even you'll do something like a "Roll your own CP/M system from z-80 chips"..... Anyway, I DO enjoy the things that I've seen in CCInk so far, so keep up the good work! Thanks. <]Dave[> Reply has been deleted Msg#:14223 *INK* 02/15/89 13:02:55 From: JEFF WILLIAMS To: CURT FRANKLIN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 5397 (A QUESTION OF INK) I like the kit idea. Most of the kits in CC so far have been very interesting and useful. Most of us are looking for more uses (justification) for the computers with the 100mb hard drives. Msg#:15020 *INK* 02/27/89 23:55:55 From: RAY HADDAD To: CURT FRANKLIN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 5397 (A QUESTION OF INK) Greetings from San Diego! Question 1: Nix on the kits. The kits out there these days are just not that good. Most of the stuff is not meant for the type of person who generally reads INK anyway. Better stick with the good stuff like X-10 or Imagewise, etc. Question 2: Keep all doors open in the area of R&D. There is no doubt at least one Thomas Alva Edison out there who your magazine will reach. That Thomas (or Thomasina) will make a mark on the world with your influence. Final Comment: Really like INK. Will be a subscriber for life as long as Steve sticks around instead of getting lost like he did at Byte (that's a small joke). PS: I am from North Stonington, Connecticut. I am a 19 year veteran of US Navy service stationed in San Diego. My New England roots are deep and my plan is to retire in a couple of years somewhere in Connecticut. God, how I miss that beautiful state! Msg#:14251 *INK* 02/16/89 00:10:25 From: JOE FITZPATRICK To: MARK VOORHEES (Rcvd) Subj: HOME SATELLITE WEATHER CENTER Hi! I have been considering building the hswc covered in past issues of INK. However, I would like to use 1 Meg SIMM memory modules instead of discreet 1 Megabit chips. If you or any of the CC INK staff could recommend a suitable SIMM module, along with a possible supplier for the modules and sockets I would greatly appreciate it. Thanks! -jjf Msg#:14272 *INK* 02/16/89 04:05:11 From: FRANK HENRIQUEZ To: JOE FITZPATRICK (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 14251 (HOME SATELLITE WEATHER CENTER) 1 meg SIMMs (in 1Meg x 8 packages) are used in the Mac Plus, SE and Mac II and are easy to obtain from several Mac software/hardware suppliers. Digi-Key has SIMM sockets, and I think Jameco had some 1 meg SIMMs on sale recently; you may want to check with them too. Frank Msg#:14355 *INK* 02/17/89 11:13:46 From: JOE FITZPATRICK To: FRANK HENRIQUEZ (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 14272 (HOME SATELLITE WEATHER CENTER) Thanks, I'll try all the suppliers you mentioned. -jjf Msg#:15026 *INK* 02/28/89 01:12:44 From: MARK VOORHEES To: JOE FITZPATRICK (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 14251 (HOME SATELLITE WEATHER CENTER) Joe; There's no reason why you couldn't use SIMM (1M x8) memory with this circui{ In addition to the suppliers already mentioned by others, you could contact JDR Microdevices in Los Gatos, CA (800 538-5000), or Frys Electronics in San Jose, CA (they had stock on these when I was last there). Let me know if I can provide any other assistance. Mark Voorhees Msg#:14668 *INK* 02/22/89 18:31:39 From: JOE FITZPATRICK To: MARK VOORHEES (Rcvd) Subj: WEATHER SAT. SYSTEM Hi, sorry to be such a pest but I have yet another question concerning the HSWC. I have been looking over the DRAM circuitry shown in part 5 (INK issue Sept/Oct. 1988) and have not been able to determine the source for signal ADS in figure 3a. I do not have a spec sheet for the DP8421, but I would suspect that this line is either an Address strobe or some type of ALE. Since it is used with clock to generate AREQ, I assumed that it was Address Strobe. Is this the 68000's AS control line? Or is additional decoding nec.? I'm sorry if I am missing something obvious. I called National and they are sending me the spec sheet, but I would still appreciate it if someone could shed a little light on this for me. Thanx in advance! -jjf Msg#:15030 *INK* 02/28/89 01:24:25 From: MARK VOORHEES To: JOE FITZPATRICK (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 14668 (WEATHER SAT. SYSTEM) Joe; ADS is the 68000's AS control line (-address strobe). The error of the additional "D" was in the schematic preparation. Sorry for the confusion. Mark Voorhees Msg#:14669 *INK* 02/22/89 18:34:52 From: JOE FITZPATRICK To: MARK VOORHEES (Rcvd) Subj: HSWC Yipes! Me again... One more question concerning the HSWC... On the DRAM circuitry, the 68000 data buss is being buffered using 4 74ls541's, is there any reason why I shouldn't use 2 74LS245's instead? Thanks again! -jjf Msg#:15032 *INK* 02/28/89 01:28:30 From: MARK VOORHEES To: JOE FITZPATRICK (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 14669 (HSWC) Joe; The 541's were used by a (nasty) force of habit on my part, also owing to some design changes made early on. The 245's should work fine. Mark Voorhees Msg#:14680 *INK* 02/22/89 23:46:16 From: JOSEPH D GRADECKI To: ED NISLEY (Rcvd) Subj: PC Mr. Nisley, On the 8031 is there instructions for access to the program counter? I would like to push and pop the guy and would like to do it in a more round about way than calling a routine and popping the counter. joe Msg#:14709 *INK* 02/23/89 09:34:51 From: ED NISLEY To: JOSEPH D GRADECKI (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 14680 (PC) Nope, you've got the only way to do it. The PC is pretty much excluded from the usual instructions because "nobody would ever want to use it for anything" (which is true only for ordinary code, not debuggers...). Be a little careful about how you restore it, because that can have the effect of an uncontrolled jump into hyperspace... Msg#:14856 *INK* 02/24/89 23:00:39 From: JOSEPH D GRADECKI To: ED NISLEY (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 14709 (PC) Ok, thanks. Just a little hopeful that I had missed something in the Intel books. joe Msg#:14736 *INK* 02/23/89 12:23:53 From: JOE FITZPATRICK To: MARK VOORHEES (Rcvd) Subj: MORE HSWC QUESTIONS I am sorry that I can't seem to get my act together and ask all of my questions at one time, but the deeper I get into this project, the more confused I become. I have just rcv'ed the National RAM controller chip info in the mail and I am a bit confused about how it is used in the circuit in part 5. At Reset, the Controller is being loaded with all '1's in the config registers. Unless I am mistaken, if C4,C5,C6 equal 1 at config time, the chip is set so that B0 and B1 select which RAS/CAS pair is used. Since B1 and B0 are tied to GND in the schematic, I don't understand why CAS1,2, and 3 are connected to the DRAMs. Perhaps I am stupid, but it seems to me that all of the chips should be strapped to CAS0. I would like to put 4 SIMM sockets on one board. Instead of having 2 DRAM select lines, I would change the decoder PAL equation to give me 1 DRAM select line. I would then use RAS0 and CAS0 on the first two SIMM sockets (1 MEG upper, 1 MEG lower) and use RAS1/CAS1 on the second two sockets (2nd MEG upper, 2nd MEG lower). I would attach A21 to B0 so that I could add the upper 2 MEG at a later date (instead of using low address lines like National recommends). Am I completely confused, or does my scheme sound workable? Also - in the earlier Part containing the basic CPU schematic: Both Static RAMS and both EPROMS are attached to D0-D7. Wouldn't the "High" RAM and ROM be attached to D8-D15? Or have I missed something obvious (as usual!)? Thank you again for all of your help. -jjf Msg#:14801 *INK* 02/24/89 08:33:24 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: JOE FITZPATRICK (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 14736 (MORE HSWC QUESTIONS) I'm forwarding all your messages directly to Mark Voorhees. He calls about once a week and is the only one who can answer these questions. You'd do best corresponding directly with him. Msg#:14824 *INK* 02/24/89 11:43:08 From: JOE FITZPATRICK To: KEN DAVIDSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 14801 (MORE HSWC QUESTIONS) Thank you. I am curious why no one noticed the data buss/ROM problem before, oh well, I appreciate all of the assistance. -jjf Msg#:15033 *INK* 02/28/89 01:34:03 From: MARK VOORHEES To: JOE FITZPATRICK (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 14736 (MORE HSWC QUESTIONS) Joe; The CAS usage in this design supposedly assists in loading and refresh timing, according to specs. Realistically speaking, it's "designer's choice", and your method should work as well. The CPU schematic was in error... U103 and U105 should be connected to D8-15. This and corrections on other articles (nothing really major) will be covered in my next installment. Thanks for your interest. Mark Voorhees Msg#:14770 *INK* 02/23/89 23:19:19 From: LEO TAYLOR To: RANDY MERKEL Subj: 6809 STUFF I've been using 680X hardware for 13 years, my SWTP was built from a kit in 1976. Steve still has me beat, his SCELBI predates my system by about a year. The FLEX operating system mentioned by Bob was one of the more popular OSs for 6800 and 6809 systems. Though no longer available from TSC, there are still several system in use. I boot up my SWTP 6809 about once a week. Also there is OS/9, perhaps the most powerful 8-bit operating system around. It is multi user/multi tasking and looks somewhat like UNIX. It is very popular with the TANDY COCO III (a 512K 6809 machine). As Bob mentioned, STARKITS supports the 6809 with STAR-DOS (a FLEX look-alike). A few of the STARDOS utilities were ported over from ones I wrote for FLEX (Peter Stark is a freind of mine). The question still is why 8 bits? The 6809 was the greatest 8 (try writing UNIX like commands on an Z-80 which can't index off the stack) but they are rather dated. I moved up to 68000 three years ago (and UNIX last year). The ATARI has the most bang for the buck, but least expandablility. Still I run a pretty convincing UNIX with 2.5 MEG and six disk drives (3 hard and 3 soft)! Leo Taylor Msg#:14827 *INK* 02/24/89 11:56:15 From: JOE FITZPATRICK To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: LASER WRITING Hi, I noticed that you are expressing interest in a laser scanning system. I did some extensive work on an entertainment oriented vector based system. It uses General Scanning PD120's for x,y and z (blanking) and my work mostly centered around software (a scrolling "message" generator, animation code, etc.) not hardware, but I would be happy to share any general information. I have also just finished working on a color, HDTV laser projector that utilizes AO modulators instead of a rotating polygon. The client expects to have the system on the market by June/July. Most of the project is proprietary, but I would be happy to share any general info about working with acusto-optic modulators, HDTV, etc. Take care. -jjf Msg#:14831 *INK* 02/24/89 12:29:44 From: STEVE CIARCIA To: JOE FITZPATRICK Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 14827 (LASER WRITING) Sounds neat. Realize of course that Curt will be breathing hard on you now for something for CC INK :-) Any real hardware hanging around that doesn't cost $10,000? Yes, we're all interested. --Steve Msg#:14881 *INK* 02/25/89 13:07:32 From: HENRY MINSKY To: JOE FITZPATRICK (Rcvd) Subj: LASER SCANNERS Hi, I am very interested in building a laser scanner x-y vector display for projecting a video space-war game on a screen or wall. I picked up about a dozen General scanning galvo scanners which came from Teradyne (formerly used for some sort of laser trimming system). General Scanning would not give me the tim of day as far as specs or pinouts for controlling the scanners. I am interested in any practical information on controlling the things. I found a pair of inputs which causes the thing to deflect, but I don't have any idea how to get position feedback out of the scanner (there are about six wires coming out ). I would very much like to know what kind of hardware or software feedback control system is most successful for driving the scanners linearly, and reducing overshoot and settling time. I also got a good deal on an acousto-optic modulator for the Z (brightness) control. I have a 68HC11 controller, now all I need is to figure out how to drive the scanner. I was going to order some Power Op Amps as a first start, but I have the feeling the some sort of feedback really is is essential for pretty graphics. Any experience you have had would really help. Thanks,-- Henry Msg#:14904 *INK* 02/26/89 05:07:11 From: GARY LEAR To: HENRY MINSKY (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 14881 (LASER SCANNERS) Henry, I have a General Scanning drive board and schematics. Can you give me a little more detail as to which scanner (i.e. model number) you have? Would you perhaps be interested in parting with a couple of the scanners (the one I have is for another project and not mine)? I also use the 68HC11 for a number of projects. Let me know if I can help. --Gary Msg#:14938 *INK* 02/26/89 23:32:45 From: HENRY MINSKY To: GARY LEAR (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 14904 (LASER SCANNERS) The scanners I got were about 4" x 1" x 1.5", with a .180" shaft. They have a connector coming off of them with 5 pins in a circular hood. The scanners have some sort of thermal electric blanket (orange rubberized cloth) around them, for temperature stability I guess. There is what looks like a thermocouple on the thing as well. The model number is Z2619 (I think). I called General Scanning, and they refused to tell me anything about the parts, because they were special order to Teradyne. These scanners are a little heftier than what I think I'e xx I've seen for laser graphics, but I bet they could do a few hundred cycles per second. Maybe I could contact you on a higher bandwidth channel (i,.e,. telephone) some time. -- My office number is 617-253-8843 - Henry Msg#:14950 *INK* 02/27/89 04:56:37 From: GARY LEAR To: HENRY MINSKY (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 14938 (LASER SCANNERS) Henry, I have mostly worked with the resonant type scanner, but I have used a couple of what you describe. Would you care to send me one to test for you? I will send what data I get from my lab, and you can send me a second one if I find anything useful. Since I type at about 1 cpm, I would definately like to use the phone. My number is (213) 379-7495. Looking forward to hearing from you. --Gary Msg#:14882 *INK* 02/25/89 13:21:41 From: HENRY MINSKY To: KEN DAVIDSON (Rcvd) Subj: JAN/FEB ISSUE OF CC INK I just wanted to say that I really liked the RTOS article by Jack Gannsle. It was well written, informative, and had a nice touch of humor. It really answered a couple of long standing questions I had about real-time systems. In the Firmware furnace section, why did Ed Nisley say that "the remainder of the 8051 code isn't available bcause of licensing agreements"? What good is it to any of us then? -- Henry Msg#:14915 *INK* 02/26/89 12:15:52 From: STEVE CIARCIA To: HENRY MINSKY (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 14882 (JAN/FEB ISSUE OF CC INK) That's not quite correct. What he really meant to say was that "the executable code is availavle free on the CCBBS. However, portions of the source code are unavailable because of licensing agreements". CC INK projects always work and software to make them work is always provided if necessary to achieve that objective. Receipt of source code versus executable code is up to the author and many times, licensing agreements. Where else are you even given that much for the price of the magazine? --Steve Msg#:14966 *INK* 02/27/89 09:22:44 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: HENRY MINSKY (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 14882 (JAN/FEB ISSUE OF CC INK) I'm glad to hear you liked the article. We were a bit concerned about presenting a software-only article, but it's been well-received. Jack's writing is always clear and a pleasure to read. As for Ed's code, I think Steve covered it all. Msg#:14949 *INK* 02/27/89 04:56:31 From: BOB PIERCE To: CURT FRANKLIN (Rcvd) Subj: INK I have just recieved my first issue of CCINK. I noticed that about half of the letters that you responded to were from overseas. Do you favor them or are they actually half of what you recieve? Also, while I realize that the circuits shown are probably just examples, why don't you include foil patterns for those who may want to quickly build the project as is? These comments are not criticisms, just observations of my first issue. I hope that CCINK will get a lot thicker as soon as possible, or at least have more frequent issues. bob Msg#:14989 *INK* 02/27/89 10:21:09 From: CURT FRANKLIN To: BOB PIERCE (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 14949 (INK) When we choose letters, we try to pick those that are of general interest to our readers. As it turns out, we do get a lot of letters from foreign countries. I don't favor them, it just work out that a lot are included in some issues. The circuit shown in the magazine are not just examples. They are the schematics of the circuits described in the article, circuits that (generally) have been proven to work. We do not supply foil patterns for several reasons: First, many of our designs are complex to a point that would require either a very large two-sided layout, or a multi-layer board. Neither lends itself to publication in a magazine. Second, most of our readers prefer to do their own layouts based opun their experience and specific application. Third, we just have not had enough demand to warrant the added expense of providing them. Yours makes, I think, the second request for foil patterns that I've seen in the last 8 months. I'm sorry if it's an inconvenience for you, but foil patterns in Circuit Cellar INK just aren't in the cards. Thanks for your feedback and suggestions. Even if we can't act on what you asked for, it's important for us to hear from you. Curt Msg#:15034 *INK* 02/28/89 01:57:33 From: BOB PIERCE To: CURT FRANKLIN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 14989 (INK) Thanx for the quick response. I, personally, would not use your layouts. It is just that most electronic mags do it and I wondered why yours didnt. thanx again...................bob ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Msg#:15153 *INK* 03/01/89 11:26:00 From: STEVE CIARCIA To: ROBERT MCILVAINE (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 15094 (TEC200 FILM) The worse thing about this BBS is that one can not search the messages, only the subjects. Would you refresh my memory, please? I think I am going buggy! --STeve Msg#:15879 *INK* 03/13/89 17:43:49 From: ROBERT MCILVAINE To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 15153 (TEC200 FILM) Sorry about that! I was referring to the info I sent you on the film that allows a copier to generate a pc mask which is then ironed on to the blank copper. I was curious to see if you had tried it yet? Regards, Mac PS I've had very good luck with it so far. Msg#:15922 *INK* 03/14/89 16:36:20 From: STEVE CIARCIA To: ROBERT MCILVAINE (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 15879 (TEC200 FILM) I turned the everything over to Jeff Bachiochi, our local PC guru. Off hand, he seems to think it doesn't offer enough resolution for the kinds of PC boards we need to prototype. I do believe we ordered some, however. --Steve Msg#:16082 *INK* 03/18/89 14:12:21 From: ROBERT MCILVAINE To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 15922 (TEC200 FILM) Steve, I believe you'll find if you are very detailed work it probably will not provide enough resolution. I am experimenting with direct transfer of a mask from memory to the TEC-200 film via laser printer rather than via photocopier ( the method they recommend ). I realize the average user doesn't have access to a laser ptr. The method for capturing the image is even more exotic....I use an HP SCANJET. :-) At 3 hunard dots per inch the resolution should be quite good. Regards, Mac Msg#:16089 *INK* 03/18/89 16:25:26 From: STEVE CIARCIA To: ROBERT MCILVAINE (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 16082 (TEC200 FILM) We have a bunch of HP Laserjets around. Thanks. --Steve Msg#:16169 *INK* 03/20/89 15:14:31 From: BRUCE WEBB To: ROBERT MCILVAINE (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 15094 (TEC200 FILM) Robert, I didn't see the original thread for this topic, but am interested in the film you describe. I am also interested in a source of ultraviolet dry film. Do you have addresses (& telephone #) for them? Any help would be greatly appreciated. I have used an overhead transparency (in copier and LaserJet)on a pre-sensitized board with some success. I have done only single sided with that technique, though. I am thinking along the lines of double sided with yhis technology ... Thanks in advance for the info. ---Bruce Msg#:16293 *INK* 03/23/89 18:00:46 From: ROBERT MCILVAINE To: BRUCE WEBB (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 16169 (TEC200 FILM) Bruce, I'll be glad to give the info to you. The Meadow Lake Corp. 25 Blanchard Dr. Northport, New York 11768 I don't have the phone # but I called them using directory assistance, they're listed (I just forgot to write down the number after using it :-( Regards, Mac Msg#:16300 *INK* 03/23/89 23:49:30 From: BRUCE WEBB To: ROBERT MCILVAINE (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 16293 (TEC200 FILM) Thanks! Bruce. Msg#:15676 *INK* 03/10/89 03:54:47 From: DALE NASSAR To: KEN DAVIDSON (Rcvd) Subj: VISIBLE INK Ken, I find the letters section in Ink extreamly informative. I have a question concerning a letter in the #6 issue When saving (writing) the DEBUG program why are 112 bytes sa instead of 12 (or 11) ? I am trying to pick up as much information as I can on DEBUG. Oh yes, how do you name this file (to load it back in, list it at a later time, etc? Are ther special areas where this information is stored? Thanks, Dale Msg#:15744 *INK* 03/11/89 08:32:20 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: DALE NASSAR (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 15676 (VISIBLE INK) The name of the file to which you ultimately save the debugged code is specified on the command line when you invoke DEBUG ("DEBUG WARMBOOT.COM"). I'm not an IBM PC expert, so this is only an educated guess, but I'd say that, like CP/M, COM files start execution at 100H, but unlike CP/M, they need the first 100H bytes padded so the start of code ends up at the right address. The reason why it's 12H bytes instead of 11H is that your code runs from 100H to 111H inclusive, which is 12H bytes. Don't forget 0. Msg#:15753 *INK* 03/11/89 11:54:25 From: DALE NASSAR To: KEN DAVIDSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 15744 (VISIBLE INK) Thanks for the info. I think I saw somewhere something about H80 too. Msg#:15704 *INK* 03/10/89 20:22:39 From: JIM MORSE To: KEN DAVIDSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 11488 (TW523 INTERFACE TO IBM PC) OK, THANKS. SORRY I TOOK SO LONG TO GET BACK TO YOU. REALLY BUSY AT WORK IMPLEMENTING NETWORK FOR DEC 6220 AND PUTTING IN 3 NEW AT&T SYSTEM 75'S. ALSO BEEN TRAVELLING A LOT; AND WENT ON VACATION. ANYWAY, I UNDERSTAND THE NO TIME SITUATION. PROBABLY DOESN'T MAKE SENSE TO SEND ME THE STUFF ON THE BCC UNTIL I GET AROUND TO HOPEFULLY, PURCHASING ONE SINCE THEY SEEM TO BE MUCH BETTER SUITED TO THE KIND OF THING I WANT TO DO. WHEN I GET TO THAT POINT AND AM WORKING WITH YOUR EQUIPMENT, THEN WE CAN WORK ON THIS? BY THE WAY WAS TALKING WITH UNIVERSAL ELECTRONICS INC. WHO MAKE THE ONE-FOR-ALL REMOTE - I TALKED ABOUT IT ON THIS BOARD BEFORE; ANYWAY IT TURNS OUT I UNDERSTAND THAT X10 IS MAKING FOR THEM A DEVICE TO RECEIVE IR CODES AND SEND OUT X10 CODES (I TALKED ABOUT THIS EARLIER ALSO, BUT DIDN'T KNOW IT WAS X10 MAKING IT). THE GUY AT UE, MIKE HARVEY, HADN'T HEARD OF THE EXTENDED CODES LIKE PRESET DIM, ETC. WHEN I ASKED HIM IF HIS BOX WOULD SEND THEM OUT. HOPE YOU DON'T MIND, I GAVE HIM YOUR NAME SINCE YOU WROTE THE ARTICLES ABOUT X10; HE MAY OR MAY NOT CALL YOU, ANYWAY I TOLD HIM YOU WERE A REALLY GOOD GUY . . . THE ONE-FOR-ALL WORKS REALLY EXCELLENT; THEY MISSED A COUPLE CODES, BUT I'M REPLACING 5 REMOTES WITH ONE AND I THINK IT'S MUCH BETTER THAN THE PROGRAMMABLE KIND, AND IT'S TRIMLINE SMALL. THANKS AGAIN FOR THE REPLY . . . SEE YOU LATER . . . - JIM Msg#:15746 *INK* 03/11/89 08:43:19 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: JIM MORSE Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 15704 (TW523 INTERFACE TO IBM PC) Like I said, I'm really reluctant to do any more work with the TW523 simply because I have everything running that I personally need running. Since my hobby and my job overlap so thoroughly, I'm trying to concentrate on making sure what I do in my spare time (hobby) is also beneficial to my job (I can write an article about it). Doing more with the TW523 would be counterproductive since I've already convered it in the magazine. As for the One-For-All, I've already finished an article on the IR gateway used with the One-For-All. I present a circuit that can be used to train any trainable remote, so you don't need One-For-All's box at all. I already had a Radio Shack (Memorex) 8-unit controller, so didn't need another, and it works quite well. The article should be showing up within the next few issues as room permits. Msg#:15747 *INK* 03/11/89 08:50:52 From: DALE REID To: CURT FRANKLIN (Rcvd) Subj: DAYTON MATERIALS Steve .. I would appreciate receiving a bunch (500?) or so subscription cards and and "glossy" promotional stuff that you have . I have two people with tables in the flea market area that will be happy to display a little corner of their area with some subscription cards and a copy or representative example of the magazine, whatever you might have. I hate to take my own back issues for fear of a)rain b) wind c)growing legs, if you know what I mean. Come to think of the crowds, if the budget allows make that 1000 cards. The address is Dale Reid; Rt. #4, Box 231-L;Eau Claire, WI 54701. Lets get that readership up there! Dale Msg#:15772 *INK* 03/11/89 20:31:17 From: STEVE CIARCIA To: DALE REID (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 15747 (DAYTON MATERIALS) I farwarded your message to Curt and he will arrange to have anything you want sent to you. You didn't say when you needed it by. We are having a new promotional piece published next week which won't be ready til the end of March. Til then, all we have is the colored 4 pager you might have already seen last fall. We still have a few thousand of those. Also, let me know if you need a few magazines too. I appreciate your helping us grow. --Steve Msg#:16380 *INK* 03/26/89 15:41:23 From: DALE REID To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 15772 (DAYTON MATERIALS) Steve .. we leave for Dayton on the last weekend in April. If you could get this things to me by then, it would work out well. Actually, any time would be fine. First, I really expect that a thousand cards would be taken in the two days we will be there. NExt, if you have a couple of the present four page color pieces, I could use two or three of them. Finally, when the new stuff comes from the printer, send those along, too. Finally, if you have a couple of back issues or some with printers erros, torn pages, etc. to show the content, I'm sure we can keep them on the tables. In general, hams are excrutiatinly honest, but when you get thirty thousand people together, there is likely to be a bad apple somewhere. One of the guys had a very big, very expensive tube stolen, but that is a very very rare occurance, and I would hope that the magazine would stay put. However, there is such a ton of stuff for the taking that sometimes people don't know that they are display only, or a guy needs a buck to get a n issue of a back month, etc. I'll hope your response is great enough that you'll be there next year. Dale (ship any time.) Msg#:16423 *INK* 03/27/89 10:39:26 From: STEVE CIARCIA To: DALE REID (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 16380 (DAYTON MATERIALS) The new 4-page color piece is being printed right now. We will make arrangements to send you (leave me a non-PO Box address) 500-800 of the color pieces, a thousand or more of the cards (depending upon how they are packed), 25 each of the latest available issues (only issues 5-8 are available) and a couple media kits if you want them for potential advertisers. Thank you very much for spreading the word for us. We appreciate it. --Steve Msg#:16913 *INK* 04/07/89 21:28:52 From: DALE REID To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 16423 (DAYTON MATERIALS) Steve .. the Rt. #4, Box 231-L, Eau Claire, WI 54701 is a non-po box address. it seems that they confuse a lot of people, but UPS gets lots of stuf to me here, so that is my currect address. Times gettin short, so ship it out! Dale Msg#:16942 *INK* 04/08/89 16:58:20 From: STEVE CIARCIA To: DALE REID (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 16913 (DAYTON MATERIALS) Dale, the stuff will be shipped by next Tuesday (blue label, probably). If you have comments on the quantity or types of materials I suggested, let me know before then please. --Steve Msg#:17036 *INK* 04/10/89 22:02:42 From: DALE REID To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 16942 (DAYTON MATERIALS) Steve .. the stuff sounds good, hopefully I can do an adequate job of promoting the magazine. I'm sure it will be well received, and I hope to have a good return rate on the cards. The magazinew will help a lot. There is no need to spend extra for blue if they will ship in a day or two. Dale Msg#:17120 *INK* 04/12/89 16:19:15 From: STEVE CIARCIA To: DALE REID (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 17036 (DAYTON MATERIALS) I believe everything was shipped (UPS) yesterday. You should have it by the 13th or 14th. Good luck and thanks. --Steve Msg#:17287 *INK* 04/15/89 21:32:57 From: DALE REID To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 17120 (DAYTON MATERIALS) My wife just is out from outpatient surgery having the double herniae repaired from dragging the boxes in from the front porch! I hope to do your subscription service the honor of having LOTS of cards come back. It is my honor to take the banner to Dayton, and hope lots of guys take and subscribe. Thanks again. Dale Msg#:17374 *INK* 04/17/89 10:23:42 From: STEVE CIARCIA To: DALE REID Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 17287 (DAYTON MATERIALS) Always glad to supply materials to someone carying the banner :-) --Steve Msg#:15763 *INK* 03/11/89 19:02:26 From: GLENN MILLER To: KEN DAVIDSON (Rcvd) Subj: X-10 SYSTEMS Hi Ken, I not sure if the is the right place to put this message or not...but here goes. I have been involved in PLC systems for about 8 years on and off. I have recently been "playing" with the X-10 system at home on a small project for a Green House control system. I have enjoyed the information INK has provided on PLC system from X-10. In the past I have used the LEVINGTON version of the system. In using their system in various configurations and locations, I've seen some strange things. I notice in INK's info that most of the talk is about home type installations. These I suppose are 220 vac Single phase environments. The X-10 systems actually supply the signal on only 1 "hot wire" of the 220vac system and the signal is "coupled" to the other "hot wire" of the system by what I call "stray coupling". Normally in a home environment this see ms to work most of the time but in my case the signal does not "couple" itself to the other phase of the power grid. In the past I have used "capacitive coupling" devices to transfer the signal from the source phase to the other phases of the power system. Also LEVINGTON manufactures active coupling devices that are used for this purpose in both single and three phase power systems. After all this my question comes down to this.... In a Home environment (220vac single phase) have you ever had or heard tell of problems with the signal coupling between phases and if so how has it been solved (cheaply) in the past? If this message is posted to the wrong place or to the wrong person please forgive me! Thanks in advance for any help, info you can spare. Glenn Miller (Not the Band Leader) Msg#:15781 *INK* 03/11/89 22:27:11 From: GARY LEAR To: GLENN MILLER (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 15763 (X-10 SYSTEMS) I believe the answer to you question may be found in the premier issue of INK. Steve Ciarcia answers a similar question from Bob Munck in the ConnectTime department on page 25 (msg #s 3342 and 3355). You might also try searching the msgs here under BSR; if you have time! In a nutshell, I think the corrct connection is: HOT HOT O----CAP---FUSE---CAP---O O NEUTRAL But don't take my word fot it. Check Steve's answer. Good luck. --Gary Msg#:15856 *INK* 03/13/89 08:39:19 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: GLENN MILLER (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 15763 (X-10 SYSTEMS) Bridging the X-10 signal to the other 110V leg is a major issue in most forums centering on the X-10 system. Someone asks why the modules work on only half the outlets in their house and someone else has to explain all over again how the 220V is split into two 110V legs and so on and so on. Gary is right that the issue was addressed in ConnecTime in issue #1 of INK and was resolved with the circuit he shows. Although I've never tried it, I think Leviton's (not Levington) solution is probably the cleanest, though it still requires you to wire into a circuit box. Probably the safest solution I've seen suggested is to wire the capacitor bridge into an appliance like an electric clothes dryer. Since you can unplug it from the wall, you can wire in complete safety, then plug it back in to use. And since such appliances are mostly metal, the fire risk from a capacitor meltdown is greatly reduced. Msg#:16114 *INK* 03/19/89 06:26:29 From: GLENN MILLER To: GARY LEAR (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 15781 (X-10 SYSTEMS) Thanks Gary for the info. I don't have the copy of INK #1, but I'll try to get it and take a look at the solution. Thanks Again, Glenn Miller Msg#:16115 *INK* 03/19/89 06:37:06 From: GLENN MILLER To: KEN DAVIDSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 15856 (X-10 SYSTEMS) Thanks for the reply....I'll look in INK #1 at the bridge circuit for BSR devices, and go from there. The idea about the coupling contained within a device (electric clothes dryer) sounds interesting... Again, thanks for your reply and I'll watch my spelling more closely next time. Glenn Miller Msg#:16142 *INK* 03/20/89 02:38:52 From: GARY LEAR To: GLENN MILLER (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 16114 (X-10 SYSTEMS) You're welcome. I hope it helps. BTW, as you probably noticed at the logon, the first 6 issues of INK are being offered in a bound set. Better orders your now. :-) --Regards, Gary Msg#:15821 *INK* 03/12/89 15:30:16 From: THOMAS BUCHANAN To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: ROVER Steve, do you know of a source for the neat FRANKLIN computer case (or a good substitute) that would allow construction of a portable remote unit? Any chance you or MICROMINT will market one? Thanks Msg#:15867 *INK* 03/13/89 09:51:10 From: STEVE CIARCIA To: THOMAS BUCHANAN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 15821 (ROVER) Cases like the one I got from Franklin are very very very expensive to manufacture. The only place you might find one is at a flea market like I did. I have one more, but I plan to use it. Sorry. It's funny, you can buy PC and AT clone case for next to nothing but portable case like a Compaq are nowhere to be found. --Steve Msg#:16122 *INK* 03/19/89 15:48:05 From: THOMAS BUCHANAN To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 15867 (ROVER) Thanks, I'll look around. The ROVER article was spectacular (though I suspect it is still evolving) and I hope you publish similar articles in CCINK. Hope CCINK is doing fine (it certainly is with me!). Msg#:16128 *INK* 03/19/89 19:23:45 From: STEVE CIARCIA To: THOMAS BUCHANAN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 16122 (ROVER) CC INK is doing wonderfully. Didn't you notice that it now has a color cover? And, starting issue #8, inside page will have more and more color. CC INK is doing fine. Circulation is over 27,000 and rising. It will be 40,000 by the end of the year. --Steve Msg#:16361 *INK* 03/25/89 23:37:10 From: THOMAS BUCHANAN To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 16128 (ROVER) Haven't received issue #8 yet but will be on the lookout for it. Color or B&W, your efforts are unique and are greatly appreciated, whatever the format. Best of luck, fortune and all things good. TFB Msg#:16410 *INK* 03/27/89 09:34:49 From: STEVE CIARCIA To: THOMAS BUCHANAN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 16361 (ROVER) CC INK issue #8 has gone to press. It will be mailing about April 4th so you cna hold your breath a little more :-) --Steve Msg#:17316 *INK* 04/16/89 13:34:12 From: THOMAS BUCHANAN To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 16410 (ROVER) Great! Msg#:16033 *INK* 03/17/89 21:37:45 From: JOE FITZPATRICK To: HENRY MINSKY (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 14881 (LASER SCANNERS) Sorry I took so long to respond: I am not sure which GS scanners you have so I can't help you on pinouts, etc., but I have had the best luck using PD120's with positional feedback (the offset comes back riding on 1 Meg signal) In your drive electronics you can do an integrator to make use of the positional feedback. I think that as far as software is concerned you would do well to treat your imagery as a 'connect the dots' kind of thing. Whatever resolution of DAC's that you are using would determine your field. If you want to do rotations, but don't want to try to do matrix multiplies on the fly, you could use several multiplying DAC's - example, a 'gain' DAC feeding the referance of your X axis DAC. If you are running your DAC's bipolar, you can 'rotate around the X axis by changing the value in the gain DAC, in addition, you can change overall size by adjusting the values of both the X and Y gain DAC's. This sort of scheme can even do Z rotations - you would need to keep a SIN table, and you would need a few more DAC's, but it would work pretty well. If you want to get into true 3D, or try to do complex perspective, you might be better doing more of the math in software, so you could rearrange the precidence of you matrix depending on different combinations of effects. If you are really interested in laser scanning, I could direct you to a few people who are very knowledgable in the field. Good Luck. -jjf Msg#:16034 *INK* 03/17/89 21:46:41 From: JOE FITZPATRICK To: MARK VOORHEES (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 15033 (MORE HSWC QUESTIONS) Thanks for the help. I am afraid that I will have to table my HSWC for awhile, since I'm hot and heavy on a new (paying) project, but I'm looking forward to completeing the HSWC sometime in the hopefully not too distant future. BTW I noticed that you have a Pheonix byline: One of my business partners also runs a small laser entertainment company called Laser Mirage, based in Pheonix. Not exactly the leading edge of technology, but probably some of the fanciest real time vector graphics, etc. being used in laser entertainment. His name is Steve Atchley, if you ever get a chance, you should go up and visit their shop. -later -jjf Msg#:16054 *INK* 03/18/89 01:46:12 From: MARK VOORHEES To: JOE FITZPATRICK Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 16034 (MORE HSWC QUESTIONS) Joe; I've heard of Laser Mirage, but don't know Steve Atchley. Will make a point to call & intro myself sometime. Let me know if I can answer any other questions. Mark Voorhees Msg#:16256 *INK* 03/22/89 18:17:45 From: BILL RICHARDS To: MARK VOORHEES (Rcvd) Subj: HOME WEATHER SATELLITE CENTER DEAR MARK; I have been following your series with great interest. I am planning to construct the weather center to interface with the ID-4001 and to use the system in connection with the geography department course offerings at the college here. My immediate question (I have many others for later) relates to the total cost of the system (including the yet to be discussed receiver section). The reason for this is that we are in the final stages of preparing our 1990 fiscal budget and I need to estimate a budget item for completing the system. Could you relate some of the final details in terms of dollars so that we can plan on implementing the center. Thanks in advance and I hope to communicate with you more later. Msg#:16304 *INK* 03/24/89 01:03:58 From: MARK VOORHEES To: BILL RICHARDS (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 16256 (HOME WEATHER SATELLITE CENTER) Bill; Thanks for your interest in the Home Weather Center project. System cost for construction of the complete system (including the purchase of the modules and antenna from Spectrum International) should be around $2000, based on the expected cost of components. As will be explained in the next article, I've changed the parts procedure due to the fact that most of our readers have access to the parts needed to build the system. Therefore, I will only be providing the boards and specialized components, such as EPROMs and PALs. I look forward to answering any questions you have as you build your system. Mark Voorhees Msg#:16512 *INK* 03/28/89 18:31:26 From: BILL RICHARDS To: MARK VOORHEES (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 16304 (HOME WEATHER SATELLITE CENTER) dear Mark, Thanks for your response. I have included that dollar figure in my budget request and everything looks good so far. I would appreciate any comments you might have concerning using the system for instruction at the undergraduate level in several areas of application (Physical Geography, Meterology, Atmospheric Energy studies , etc.). Hope to commmunicate again in the near future. Thanks again, Bill. Msg#:16598 *INK* 03/31/89 01:16:38 From: MARK VOORHEES To: BILL RICHARDS (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 16512 (HOME WEATHER SATELLITE CENTER) Bill; The system should have several applications in what I like to call "weather technology". Be sure to see all of my past CCI articles, as I've covered a lot of ground, including weather database access as well as the Home Weather Center hardware. I think I'd start with the Heath ID-5001 Weather computer, to demonstrate the atmospheric changes associated with the various phenomenon, and then move to simple forecasting, using that information, and then expand on the concepts using the additional tools of NWS information, Radar, and Satellite imaging. Look forward to hearing from you again as questions arise. Mark Voorhees Msg#:16274 *INK* 03/23/89 09:11:43 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: VINCERETE Subj: LOST SUBSCRIPTION. There isn't much I can do from here. Give Rose a call at (203) 875-2199 and ask her to check into it. Msg#:17015 *INK* 04/10/89 14:29:44 From: BOB PADDOCK To: KEN DAVIDSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 16274 (LOST SUBSCRIPTION.) I still havn't gotten my Jan/Feb 1989 issue. I've already given Rose a call (Midle of March){. I did get a cancaled check for renewing, now how do I actually get them? Msg#:17049 *INK* 04/11/89 08:41:09 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: BOB PADDOCK (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 17015 (LOST SUBSCRIPTION.) Leave me your address and we'll get the lost issue out to you. Rose has already looked into the problem and it should be corrected. Msg#:17061 *INK* 04/11/89 12:11:14 From: BOB PADDOCK To: KEN DAVIDSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 17049 (LOST SUBSCRIPTION.) Thank you. Send to : Bob Paddock %Matric Limited Box 167A RD #1 Summit Dr. Franklin, PA 16323 Msg#:17098 *INK* 04/12/89 08:39:02 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: BOB PADDOCK (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 17061 (LOST SUBSCRIPTION.) It will go out posthaste. Msg#:17116 *INK* 04/12/89 12:20:50 From: BOB PADDOCK To: KEN DAVIDSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 17098 (LOST SUBSCRIPTION.) Thank you. Msg#:16340 *INK* 03/25/89 01:45:57 From: BRUCE DOUGLASS To: ALL Subj: RTOS I read with interest the article on RTOS in Jan/Feb 89 Circuit Cellar INK. I am designing a somewhat similar system, but I am not sure of the best approach. The CPU has 16 interrupts, and the hardware uses some of these to interface with devices, such as a 3-timer timer chip, some telemetry hardware, and a serial port interface. The job to be done is to be a smart peripheral for a remote computer (via the serial link) to program a device via telemetry (using timers to toggle the state of a coil), and at the same time respond to user pressed buttons with software debouncing. I have a 8-K Eprom but less than 1 page of RAM. The RTOS system looks nice, but is it practical n my application? In general, several tasks may be on-going. One approach is to use the hardware interrupts to control the task scheduling totally, and not worry about prioritizing at all -- preemtive tasking could be made to work in this case. For example, since the telemetry messages are short, the buttons could be ignored until the telemetry transmission of the message and reception of the response was complete. On the other hand, I could use a timer to wake up the task scheduler and poll the interrupt lines and control it in software. It would be easier to do non-preemtive tasking in this case. Does anyone have any feelings about this? The system is running at 2 Mhz, and telemetry is rather time consuming -- transmitting a bit takes between 600 - 900 us, so the CPU telemetry task must be Johnny-on-the-spot when it is time to send the next bit. With such limited RAM, would it be really better to just use the hardware to control the execution of tasks and just disable interrupts that shouldn't be active? --BPD Msg#:16347 *INK* 03/25/89 05:09:34 From: GARY LEAR To: KEVIN DAVIS (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 13464 (PALS) If you haven't already given up hope, or found an answer, Russ lists a source for programming in several of his message responses. Scan the messge base here for "digital scope" and you will find his response. Hope this is not too late. Good luck. --Gary Msg#:16400 *INK* 03/27/89 03:29:42 From: ROBERT F. LINDER To: ALL Subj: 80186/V40 DOES ANYBODY KNOW IF INTEL 80186 CAN BE REPLACE BY A NEC V40.I GOT A PC -TECH X16B 10MHz W/8087. Msg#:16434 *INK* 03/27/89 18:18:46 From: LEE AHO To: CCI READERS Subj: 8031 MODULE I'm looking for anyone who has ordered a micro controller module from Cottage Resources. Have you received your module yet? I sent in my order on Feb 15. On Mar 6, they sent me a backorder notice and said that they expected to fill the order on or before Mar 15. Well, today is Mar 27, and I still haven't received it yet. I've tried to call the number they listed on the notice, but no one answers - ever! Does anyone know what's going on? Msg#:16447 *INK* 03/27/89 22:32:47 From: TIM MCDONOUGH To: LEE AHO (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 16434 (8031 MODULE) Lee - We ran into a bit longer delay on the 8031 modules than we anticipated when the backorder notice was mailed to you and others. The modules are back in stock now and will be in the hands of your friendly United Parcel Service driver this week. I apologize for the delay even though I realize that you want a module and not my apology. The fact of the matter is that the response to our module was far greater than we had estimated it would be at first and we ran out of the bare printed circuit boards soon after the advertisement first appeared. Unfortunately for our image and our customer's projects, they are a relatively long lead item. We have taken steps to ensure that we don't run out again and hope that when your module arrives early next week that you will be pleased with it. Tim McDonough Cottage Resources Msg#:16524 *INK* 03/28/89 22:00:29 From: MURRAY COHEN To: BOB MEISTER (Rcvd) Subj: 6809-LOGGER I have read your article in Circuit Cellar Ink. I am currently building a 6809 board for a logger. I would like to know if you know how to increase the memory? My plan is to have 2 or 3 32*8 ram chips that are bank switched on the lower 32K of the Map. The upper 16K will be for the EPROM. The next 16K down is for RAM. The I/O will be poked as a hole somewhere either in the EPROM area or the unswitched RAM. I am having a problem figuring out how to do the bank switching. Do you have any ideas?? If anyone else is reading this. All ideas are invited and would be appreciated. I am going to use a Clock chip in addition to the serial port. Murray Cohen Msg#:16562 *INK* 03/30/89 00:27:38 From: FRANK HENRIQUEZ To: MURRAY COHEN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 16524 (6809-LOGGER) Look at the Motorola 6883 SAM chip (aka 74LS783). It is a system controller for the 68xx family. It handles DRAM refresh, I/O decode, etc. In one of its modes, you can set up a system with 32K of static RAM (or ROM) and 64K of DRAM (32K bank switched). The system can also be used as an all static ram system. Its *really* easy to udse, too. Frank Msg#:16650 *INK* 04/01/89 21:23:14 From: MURRAY COHEN To: FRANK HENRIQUEZ (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 16562 (6809-LOGGER) Frank, Thanks I'll look for the spec sheet on the 6883. I am trying to switch a few low banks of 32K ea. I hope that chip does the trick. I'll let you know. Murray Msg#:17577 *INK* 04/20/89 20:10:23 From: BOB MEISTER To: MURRAY COHEN Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 16524 (6809-LOGGER) If you edit the source code, and change the device selection logic, you should have no real problems increasing memory, but the program as it is now written won't use it anyway. I'm not sure what you need the extra RAM for, unless you're planning to increase the output buffer a whole lot more than it is now. Also not sure what that will buy you. However, the person who made the prototype made a bank-switched EPROM board for his 6800/6809 system. I'll ask him to get on and let you know how he did that on his system. I have several ideas on the subject but haven't tried any of them so I'd rather not show my ignorance here. Let me know what you need more memory for, and maybe I can help you with some suggestions on modifying the program. Good luck. Msg#:16532 *INK* 03/29/89 00:02:09 From: ERIC S. BRUNETTE To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: IMAGEWISE ETC... Steve-- two things: First, in which issue of BYTE did you discuss the Imagewise system? I've dug and dug but I still can't find the article? Second, I am pleased so far with the performance of Imagewise system, but my application needs higher resolution but can do without the 64-shade grey scale. Is there a way that I can make some hardware change to trade say the 64-shade scale for a 16-shade scale and increase my resolution? If this is impossible, does MicroMint offer a higher resolution system? If not, is there another vendor who offers a similarly inexpensive yet reliable digitizer? (My true interest lies in the digitizer, since as far as the ImageWise system is concerned, my monitor resolution is higher than the receiver's) Oh...while I've got you, do you know of a good starting point for me to look for routines for manipulating images? I'm especially interested in finding routines that will let me rotate 2-dimensional images about a centerpoint or enlarge and reduce parts of images without significant distortion. Any help you can provide is much appreciated. (P.S.: I love the board!) ---<<>>--- Msg#:16545 *INK* 03/29/89 16:07:52 From: STEVE CIARCIA To: ERIC S. BRUNETTE (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 16532 (IMAGEWISE ETC...) The original ImageWise articles in BYTE were May and June '87. Bothe the serial and PC ImageWises are 256x244 resolution. There is no way, short of redesigning the hardware, to increase the resolution. The grayscale has a maximum capability of 64 level grayscale. If you want less grayscale simple throw the extra bits away. I believe the ZIP software allows stuff like this to be done. --Steve Msg#:16590 *INK* 03/30/89 13:02:10 From: ED NISLEY To: ERIC S. BRUNETTE (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 16532 (IMAGEWISE ETC...) Unfortunately, higher resolution and low cost don't go together. Data Translation puts out some (much) higher priced boards that have 512x512 resolution, but you've got to have the cameras to justify them. They have some (not inexpensive) image processing software that may do what you want... but for rotations and suchlike, you're probably on your own. The IEEE Computer Graphics & Applications journal has some worthwhile articles about that sort of thing; they tend to be a little heavy going sometimes, but a trip to the library will be rewarding. Msg#:16774 *INK* 04/04/89 11:17:47 From: DALE NASSAR To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: MAGNETIC MEDIA IN INK Steve, I was playing around with a mylar (or whatever) sheet removed from a floppy diskette caseing. I was amazed at the abuse this thing could take and still function perfectly. I even scratched one (on both sides) with a needle and it still worked. Wouldn't this be a good way to provide software in INK. The sheet is so flexable, thin, and light it would be just like paper. It could be put in a paper sleeve and right into the book. The user would simply place the disk in a diskette jacket that has been slit at the top and put it in the drive. (it would probably be a good idea to copy it onto another diskette). I also put the sheet directly into the diskette drive and it worked fine (of course no WP). It did not work, however, in the type of drive that uses the mechanical lever locks. --Dale Msg#:16851 *INK* 04/06/89 08:45:24 From: ED NISLEY To: DALE NASSAR (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 16774 (MAGNETIC MEDIA IN INK) The Postal Service handles a bazillion pieces of mail a day using what could charitably be called Stone Age equipment... Their larger sorting centers have large conveyors carrying mail here and there; somewhat like a railroad yard, these conveyors have switches. Unlike the railroad yards, the switches are positioned by electromagnets. Huge electromagnets. Electromagnets such as you don't see around your house. Electromagnets that make GREAT bulk erasers for floppy disks... I think nearly every computer magazine has tried to distribute floppies at one time or another, with never-to-be-repeated experiences. If the binding process doesn't mash the diskettes flat (which wouldn't be a problem if we leave the jackets off), the Postal Service will degauss the little buggers on the way there. Worse, which format do you choose? Turns out that I have most recent IBM floppy types (360K, 1.2M, 1.44M), but that's not really by choice. That ignores all the non-IBM folks out there, who get vocal about things like this... What it boils down to is that machine-readable code would be a nice idea, but the nitty-gritty details kill ya. Grumble. Msg#:16855 *INK* 04/06/89 18:34:08 From: DALE NASSAR To: ED NISLEY (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 16851 (MAGNETIC MEDIA IN INK) Do you have any idea what the ultimate solution will be? --Dale Msg#:16889 *INK* 04/07/89 11:04:44 From: ED NISLEY To: DALE NASSAR (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 16855 (MAGNETIC MEDIA IN INK) Beats me... Ideally, you want something that is compatible with every computer owned by every reader, can be included in every magazine without change, doesn't require any additional hardware, can pack about a quarter meg of stuff on a page, and is utterly reliable. Gad. That's enough to make you take up knitting for a career, isn't it? Msg#:16796 *INK* 04/05/89 00:30:06 From: DALE NASSAR To: ALL Subj: DRIVER IC'S I have seen a circuit that drives an Airpax K82954-M3 stepper motor with a Sprague ULN-2803A driver IC. I am confused about something here: This driver has built-in suppression diodes that are connected by tying the diode cathodes to the +V supply In the circuit I examined the diodes were not connected (pin 10 of the IC was unused) and external diodes were connected to the driver sections in the circuit board. Which would do exactly the same thing as the internal diodes on the chip (looking at the IC pictorial). At first I thought that the designer may have not been aware of the internal diodes. I then breadboarded the circuit and connected the stepper motor. I got very little torque compared to that of the original and also the IC got very hot and malfunctioned after a very short period. Then i disconnected the internal diode connection and used external diodes--the chip stayed cool and I got a lot of torque. The Sprague data book and any literature I can find mention nothing about this type of thing happening. Has anyone ever run into this situation or know why it happens? --Dale Msg#:16812 *INK* 04/05/89 04:44:59 From: GARY LEAR To: DALE NASSAR (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 16796 (DRIVER IC'S) As a guess, based on my other uses of steppers (I have also used the Airpacs linear steppers) I think that the CEMF from the coil switching probably exceeds the internal diode ratings. That would explain why it is so easy to connect external ones, and besides, it is something that Sprague likes to do. --Gary Msg#:17092 *INK* 04/12/89 04:34:47 From: DALE NASSAR To: GARY LEAR (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 16812 (DRIVER IC'S) Gary, Have you ever run any of the larger Airpax steppers contiounsly? I am working on a oject that uses an eprom as the stepper controller and may need to run continously at times. I have noticed that in this case the motor gets VERY hofter a short time. In 45 minutes it is too hot to touch (no load and not enclosed). Do you know if this is normal? I think I'll recheck the rom programming just to be safe. --Dale PS I am 1/2 stepping the motor. Msg#:17171 *INK* 04/14/89 04:14:24 From: GARY LEAR To: DALE NASSAR (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 17092 (DRIVER IC'S) Dale, as far as Airpax steppers go, I have only used their linear stepper motors (actuators). These are ideal for controlling the position of a robot gripper. Although its been a while, I used to work with conventional steppers almost daily. As an off-hand guess, it sounds like you are running "detent" current through the windings when the motor is at rest. This is often done to prevent the rotor from moving when not being pulsed. If you try to run full current however, the whole motor casing becomes too hot to handle in very little time. There are two classic ways to handle this situation: 1) Install a large power resistor in series with the common coil lead. This is shunted with a power switching device. Thus, when the motor is not running, a relatively small current keeps the rotor in place. 2) Use just a power switching device in the common line circuit. When stepping, turn the switch on 100% of the time. When in "detent" mode, pulse width modulate the switch. I personally prefer the latter choice. If I have guessed wrong about your configuration, please send me more details and I will try to help. Good luck. --Gary Msg#:17224 *INK* 04/15/89 00:18:21 From: DALE NASSAR To: GARY LEAR (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 17171 (DRIVER IC'S) I must run the motor SEMI-CONTINOUSLY (2 minutes on and 2 minutes off) When these people test the thing they run it constantly so I guess that may be the problem. However when run 2 on and 2 off a lot of heat is still generated. When running the 2 minutes on there must be no stopping. Thanks a lot, Gary --Dale Msg#:17236 *INK* 04/15/89 05:49:36 From: GARY LEAR To: DALE NASSAR (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 17224 (DRIVER IC'S) I seem to recall that some of the big monsters (what size stepper are you using? Step size too?) had temperature ratings on the end plate. At least the 120 oz. in. Slo-Syn's (Superior Electric) that I used did. If I recall correctly, they were rated for a 55 degree C increase in case temperature. Since that is over 130 degrees F, I would think it would feel pretty warm. Check your case temperature and drive circuitry schematic. I will be glad to help more if I can. --Gary Msg#:16797 *INK* 04/05/89 00:34:57 From: DALE NASSAR To: ALL Subj: FUSING LINEAR POWER SUPPLIES Are there any strict rules on sizing and typing a fuse for the primary (117VAC) side of a transformer used in linera power supplies. For example, if a 5V TTL power supply is to supply 1 amp and uses a 16 VCT transformer (2 diodes) how is the fuse size and type (slo-blow, etc) determined. I ask because I rarely ever see the same fuse in similar power supplies. --Dale Msg#:17250 *INK* 04/15/89 09:26:45 From: PELLERVO KASKINEN To: DALE NASSAR (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 16797 (FUSING LINEAR POWER SUPPLIES) There are several texts about the transformer and diode ratings necessary in these applications. The difficult part is that you do not normally know the exact characteristics of the transformer you are using. The diodes and the capacitors are easier. In any case, here are some rules of thumb. You should at first calculate the raw DC power before the regulator. That is, you should measure or estimate the voltage at the electrolytic capacitor terminals and multiply that with the output current. Then, because the capacitor is charged only during the peak voltage time at every half cycle of the power line, the current through the primary shows very high peak values, at least double or triple the average current. This in itself increases the RMS value that the fuse is exposed to (being a slo-blow) and must be taken into account. But the final catch is the start time. When the capacitor is at zero voltage, the charging current is yet much higher than the repetitive value mentioned above. This current is essentially limited only by the transformer leakage impedance, mostly referred to the "regulation" factor. If the regulation factor is 10 %, it means that the secondary voltage is reduced by 10 % from the no load condition when you put the nominal current load in effect. That translates to a short circuit (start time) current of 10 TIMES the nominal current. All the above relates to the secondary current effects. But that is not all! When a transformer core does not have any magnetic flux before being energized, there is not the normal counter-EMF to keep the primary magnetizing current reasonable. The unpleasant result is that the transformer primary current can reach TENS of times the normal operating current during the first half cycle of power application. This current is transient in nature, decaying in just a few half cycles, but added to the capacitor charging current and compared to the fuse characteristics often disqualifies fast fuses. Indeed, I would say that in your example case, the fuse in steady state would appear to be only 0.1 A on the primary side, but in real life you are likely to see 0.2 A or 0.25 A fuse, and that a slo-blo type. However, until you know the exact characteristics of the transformer, you can only take some educated guess and then try it.. I hope this does shed some light into the question, although I admit I can not give a universal answer. -- PJK Msg#:17039 *INK* 04/10/89 23:31:20 From: RON LEBLANC To: SYSOP (Rcvd) Subj: RTOS PART 2? I have the April/May issue number 8 at my side. Came to get the latest code listings for the RTOS article. No can find. I'm I missing something or just too early??? Thanks. --Ron Msg#:17040 *INK* 04/10/89 23:38:40 From: STEVE SAMPSON To: RON LEBLANC (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 17039 (RTOS PART 2?) Your probably just trying to make us feel bad, since we don't get our issues for another week :-) Where you at to get it so fast? Msg#:17052 *INK* 04/11/89 08:48:55 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: RON LEBLANC (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 17039 (RTOS PART 2?) I guess I'll have to start tracking down software. Since that issue only started arriving by mail to people yesterday, you're a bit early, but are correct that it should be posted. If I'm not mistaken, though, I thought the RTOS stuff was posted for the last issue (part 1 of the article), so should already be available. Msg#:17071 *INK* 04/11/89 20:11:24 From: RON LEBLANC To: STEVE SAMPSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 17040 (RTOS PART 2?) New Hampshire - as in Nashua. --Ron Msg#:17072 *INK* 04/11/89 20:19:42 From: RON LEBLANC To: KEN DAVIDSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 17052 (RTOS PART 2?) Yes, I downloaded the RTOS stuff for part one. However, I did not see anything in the part one stuff that refers to the memory management stuff talked about in part two. Now, as to the first part of the second part, the first party (me) requests information to the status of the second part which should not be confused with the first part. I'm confused. Is there even a second part. Maybe the first part is all there is. Thank you to the party of the second part. Geesh! I just re-read this. I need a drink. Thanks anyway. I'll check back later. --Ron Msg#:17099 *INK* 04/12/89 08:44:48 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: RON LEBLANC (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 17072 (RTOS PART 2?) You need a drink? It sounds more like you've already been drinking. :-) The memory management stuff is a large part of how the RTOS works and should be in the stuff that is already posted. I've put up everything that Jack sent, so it should be there somewhere. Msg#:17161 *INK* 04/13/89 23:29:22 From: RON LEBLANC To: KEN DAVIDSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 17099 (RTOS PART 2?) Only tea. Strongest stuff I put into my body these days. OK I'll look again. --Ron Msg#:17088 *INK* 04/12/89 00:54:51 From: KENNETH EDWARD SMITH To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: CCI #8 Dear Steve: I have just got my CCI #8. There are product reviews in it! AHHHHHHHhhhhhhhh !!!!!!! Msg#:17126 *INK* 04/12/89 16:49:42 From: STEVE CIARCIA To: KENNETH EDWARD SMITH Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 17088 (CCI #8) Yes, but they are the RIGHT kind of reviews. BYTE, in my opinion, has moved off from technical center to review "appliances". We just thought we'd be more honest about the value we saw in that approach by doing a competetive review. Glad you enjoyed it. --Steve Msg#:17147 *INK* 04/13/89 20:20:57 From: MATTHEW J. MABERINO To: ALL Subj: BUG FOUND For those that read "From the Bench" in issue 8, Creating a network based embedded controller... On figure 1a, U6 is a MAX232 chip, the capacitor C6 tied to the chips pin 2 should go to +5V on the minus end of the capacitor, NOT GROUND. The "recommended connections" section of the Maxim catalog is incorrectoooo! If you tie the cap to ground, there's about 75% chance of foward biasing a diode across the rails (inside the chip). It tends to make the chip very hot(you'll notice it with the wet finger method). Also, I'd like to make a digital temperature thingy (yes, with a lcd, I ordered my three today), my question is that I'm not sure of the best method to use. I figure I can use a temp converter semiconductor (I forgot what they call them) to either a timer and count pulses, or go to a A/D. Or possibly there's some other ways of doing it. Anyone got any advice on the easiest way (it's going into an RCA1802 micro, old habits don't die, they just don't manufacture them anymore). --- Steve --- I finally found ya! You not gettin' away that easy! Anyway, good luck to you. Ink reminds me of what byte was in 76, with David Ahl. I've got old "Best of Byte" that describe things like "The Suding Tape Interface", remember that! How about the graphic display interface for your oscilloscope. Those where the days... Do me a favor, bring them back. Thanks ... Matt Msg#:17181 *INK* 04/14/89 06:32:09 From: GARY LEAR To: MATTHEW J. MABERINO (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 17147 (BUG FOUND) I recall a memo from Maxim that described this problem, but it came out shortly after the part did. I thought I had checked my latest data book and found it to be accurate. Hmmm. As to the temperature sensor that you are looking for; someone else was looking for a sensor that would withstand more than 100 degrees C (for making maple syrup). The semiconductor parts will stand up to 150 deg C, but they aren't good to much better than 0.5 deg accuracy. National makes a couple: LM34 and LM35. The 34 is for the Fahrenheit scale, the 35 for Celcius. You can use a voltage to frequency converter or a cheap A/D for conversion. I have used both. The LM331 for the V-F converter. And although many A/D converters are available, you might look at the ADC0831 and related series. This part comes in an 8 pin package and interfaces serially with the processor. Good luck. --Gary Msg#:17204 *INK* 04/14/89 14:37:34 From: JEFF BACHIOCHI To: MATTHEW J. MABERINO (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 17147 (BUG FOUND) Matthew, According to MAXIM, there was a potential problem with latch-up of V+ on the MAX232 chips made prior to July of 1987. The present mask prevents this from happening. This means past circuit designs based on the original application diagrams will work correctly with MAX232's made after the datecode 8726 (26th week of 1987). However, for future designs it is recomended that V+ be tied to VCC instead of ground. Thanks for looking out for us! jeff Msg#:17223 *INK* 04/14/89 23:53:54 From: FRANK HENRIQUEZ To: JEFF BACHIOCHI (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 17204 (BUG FOUND) The Max232 chip sounds like a great idea on paper, but I've found that the caps it requires end up eating a lot of board space. They're the best solution if you really, absolutely don't have a +/- 12v power supply handy...but otherwise, I'd stick to the motorola CMOS dual driver/recevier chip (can't remember the number - 145xxx?) Msg#:17238 *INK* 04/15/89 06:10:26 From: GARY LEAR To: FRANK HENRIQUEZ (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 17223 (BUG FOUND) Frank, check your latest Maxim catalog. They have at least one member of the MAX232 family that has the caps built in. --Gary Msg#:17272 *INK* 04/15/89 19:05:56 From: STEVE CIARCIA To: FRANK HENRIQUEZ (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 17204 (BUG FOUND) Like Gary said, Maxim also makes a MAX233. This chip has the caps built in but it costs about twice as much. Board space or $, your decision :-) --Steve Msg#:17366 *INK* 04/17/89 09:46:05 From: JEFF BACHIOCHI To: FRANK HENRIQUEZ (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 17223 (BUG FOUND) Frank, Yup! Electrolytics do take up a bunch of space, 10 uF tantalums aren't too bad. We have used the Mot. 145406 is numerous applications. It is a fine CMOS replacement for a '88 & '89. In many instances, it is worth the extra space to eliminate the need for a plus and minus supply. jeff Msg#:17579 *INK* 04/20/89 20:22:51 From: MATTHEW J. MABERINO To: JEFF BACHIOCHI (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 17204 (BUG FOUND) Jeff, Thanks. I tell you, the first time I used the chip, I almost went through the roof. I drew up a design using the chip, and it shined because of the 5 volt only oper. when it didn't work, talk about losing face, (they almost ripped mine off), but an old byte mag. had one of Steve's using the chip with the cap tied to +5 , so I tried it, Voila... Thanks again. Matt Msg#:17152 *INK* 04/13/89 21:22:25 From: PAUL HARRIS To: EDITOR Subj: 6809 DATALOGGER on the 6809 data logger design the ds1 pin on the a/d is the most significant digit.the lines on on the print backwards,in other words ds4 should be ds1.that is the way the software reads it.I also took *e off of pin 22 on the prom and ram and tied pin 20 to pin 22 on each of these chips then i took *e and tied it to pin 1 of the 74139 this seem to make the system more dependable the cs should be gated with *e.I build the project and now it seem to work fine.I use a os9 level 1 c compiler and had a little trouble putting it in prom but it works okay now. bye for now Msg#:17180 *INK* 04/14/89 06:13:00 From: GARY LEAR To: 17200 Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 17152 (6809 DATALOGGER) Using the enable (E*) line from the Motorola family to enable the address decoder results in a shortening of the available address access window. In some instances, e.g. fast memories, this is not a problem. With most EPROMs however, the E* should be combined with RD* and fed to the OE* line of the memory. The address decoder output then goes to CS*. This allows the memory an access time as long as is consistant with the processors timing. A WE* line can be created in a similiar way for the system RAM. There are virtually no circumstances where E* should be combined with CS*. It is not necessary, and it consumes potentially valuable time. --Gary Msg#:17160 *INK* 04/13/89 22:46:48 From: JOE EBEL To: CIRCUIT CELLAR INK Subj: MOPOKE BENCHMARK Just finished reading your Product Review Article in the April/May issue. Haven't stopped grinning yet! I've suffered through too many reviews in the major PC Mags and found your report refreshing. I'm ready to go out and buy a Proctor-Silex, but will it run OS/2? I see it's already capable of multitasking (two slots). Keep up the great work in Circuit Cellar INK! I'll remain a subscriber forever if you maintain your irreverent attitude! Msg#:17197 *INK* 04/14/89 13:17:33 From: STEVE CIARCIA To: JOE EBEL Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 17160 (MOPOKE BENCHMARK) You might want to note one other benefit of using the Proctor-Silex. As shown in the extreme predjudice test picture, the toast survived much better than a standard hard disk drive and, in fact, was still quite useable, save a bit of air conditioning :-) --Steve Msg#:17211 *INK* 04/14/89 15:49:04 From: SHAUN J. GREANEY To: JIM NELSON (Rcvd) Subj: NCAP LCDS I was reading Msg#:9868 in Ink where you mentioned NCAP LCDs. It sounded as though they would be fairly flexible and unbreakable. Do you have any additional information on them? Manufacturer(s)? Thanks. Msg#:17255 *INK* 04/15/89 13:34:32 From: JIM NELSON To: SHAUN J. GREANEY (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 17211 (NCAP LCDS) They're manufactured by Taliq. 800/722-6464 & Fax: 408/745-1820. Bob Simpson is the engineer to talk to there. These are custom solutions, and cost around $150 per square foot. And they're not useable in outdoor applications. Msg#:17256 *INK* 04/15/89 13:41:33 From: JAMES MEYER To: ALL Subj: RFI NOISE I feel I must point out that, contrary to the statement on page 21 of the april/may INK in reply to a request for help with an RFI problem, more than one turn of wire on a toroid core does *not* produce a step-down transformer with a shorted secondary. A turn of wire carrying a current and passing through a toroid induces a *magnetic* current in the toriod. The *dissipation* in a ferrite increases with frequency not its resistance. Also in regard to yokes for cores. Go down to your local Radio-Shaft and pick up a few of their part #273-104 "Snap Together Toroid Choke Cores". They won't explode in your face either. I hope the research staff at INK does a little more research before writing the RFI article than it did to answer the letter. P.S. Curt, Please send me an authors guide. Looks like I could help with the RFI article. BTW is it for fame and glory or does INK pay for suchlike? J. P. Meyer 1312 B-1 Wyldewood Rd. Durham, NC 27704 Msg#:17278 *INK* 04/15/89 20:00:10 From: STEVE CIARCIA To: JAMES MEYER (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 17256 (RFI NOISE) INK pays for articles but considering the superlative demographics of the audience and INK's rapid rise, you may get fame and glory too ;-) Talk to Curt. I would very much like to see an informed presentation on RFI. The author's guide is on this BBS in the CC INK section. --Steve Msg#:17529 *INK* 04/19/89 13:56:37 From: ED NISLEY To: JAMES MEYER (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 17256 (RFI NOISE) You're absolutely right about the "short" -- there's gotta be a secondary before you can have a short in it. I think the real problem with multiple turns through the toroid would be capacitive coupling between the turns: the dissipation in the ferrite goes up, but some of the hash just bypasses the core entirely. Worse, though, and the reason the RS cores wouldn't work and the TV yokes _might_ is that the core will saturate if the magnetic field gets high enough. Remember that this guy is running an arc welder, so a few casual turns can build up a hefty field... and the cables he's using probably won't fit through the dinky cores you and I use on RS-232 lines! Msg#:17264 *INK* 04/15/89 16:27:57 From: MARK BALCH To: JEFF BACHIOCHI (Rcvd) Subj: RS-485 INTERFACE Jeff, I found your embedded controller article very interesting. It has planted many ideas in my head, some of which will probably start a mini-network in my attic! I've got some questions about the RS-485 serial port. In the first schematic (figure 1a) the IC at U4 is used as the level converter for the RS-485 line. This IC is labeled as the 75176, but it is not listed in the Sources Box. I haven't found this part in catalogs so can you please tell me where you ordered it from? I'd also like to know where I can purchase the piggy-back board connectors. One more thing. Do you know of any companies that I could write to for specs on the RS-485 format? While I would be happy with a single-master network, it would be nice to build a simple multi-master network around the standard RS-485 specs. Thanks alot! Mark Msg#:17282 *INK* 04/15/89 20:09:01 From: STEVE CIARCIA To: MARK BALCH (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 17264 (RS-485 INTERFACE) In the next issue of CC iNK Jeff presents a four-user under-$100 PC-network. In issue #10 Ed Nisley will be presenting code for an RS-485 network for the BCC and RTC boards. --Steve Msg#:17373 *INK* 04/17/89 10:21:18 From: JEFF BACHIOCHI To: MARK BALCH (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 17264 (RS-485 INTERFACE) Mark, The 75176 is from Texas Instruments (probably others). You can get one from Jameco 415-592-8097 ($2.29). As far the Vertical-Stacking Headers go, it's a Circuit Assemblies #CA-D26-VCS-40B. Probably available only through distribution and in quantity. Circuit Cellar Inc. has them available for $5.00 each. Ask for the 26-pin Vertical-Stacking Header. jeff Msg#:17617 *INK* 04/21/89 19:13:08 From: MARK BALCH To: JEFF BACHIOCHI (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 17282 (RS-485 INTERFACE) Wow, with each message you bring great news! I see that I am not the only person interested in expanding the RTC boards. Will the Four USer network be for the RTC / BCC boards or for full-fledged desktop computers like the PC? I've been playing around with simple protocols in my head for an RS-485 network, but without other signal lines, I can't find a way to implement a multi-master network. I though of this: There are four lines: RxD, TxD, Master Request and Relinquish. When a controller wants to become a network talker for a period of time, it pulls the Master Request line active. Any number of controllers can pull this line active because the network master will ask each possible talker if they want to talk. So it would follow a certain priority order. After a certain amount of time of talking, mabye half a second?, the network master will pull the Relinquish line active and the talker will relinquish control to the master. What do you think? Bye...Mark Msg#:17618 *INK* 04/21/89 19:14:41 From: MARK BALCH To: JEFF BACHIOCHI (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 17373 (RS-485 INTERFACE) Thank you. I haven't yet found any vertical connectors at any vendors. When I need them, I'll give CCI a call. Bye...Mark Msg#:17794 *INK* 04/26/89 11:27:56 From: JEFF BACHIOCHI To: MARK BALCH (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 17617 (RS-485 INTERFACE) Mark, To keep the net lines down to a minimum (2) the use of hardware arbitration is not possible. The request and ack hardware lines must be implemented in software. Listen to the line. If busy wait random time and listen again. Send message. Listen for acknowledge. If time out then send again. End. This is over simplified but allows any node to speak with out permission of a master. A multi-master net is much more difficult and is not necessary in many cases. jeff Msg#:17923 *INK* 04/29/89 22:48:14 From: MARK BALCH To: JEFF BACHIOCHI (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 17794 (RS-485 INTERFACE) I thought of something like that, but what if two devices talk at once? Then the line has garble. So you said to wait a *random* amount of time. But computers (which are mathematical at heart) can only generate pseudo-random numbers according to an algorithm. If each node uses the same algorithm, then they will all wait the same amount of "random" time. You know more about this than me, have you done something like this? I am curious to find out a way without using more signal lines. With only 1 ground line and 2 signal lines it fits nicely into a 4 wire telco connector. Bye...Mark Msg#:17925 *INK* 04/30/89 00:19:38 From: STEVE SAMPSON To: MARK BALCH (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 17923 (RS-485 INTERFACE) Packet Radio (Amateur) uses this technique quite well. You don't need pure random numbers. Course 19.2K will have probably less clashes due to its quickness. Msg#:17288 *INK* 04/15/89 21:50:47 From: DALE REID To: CURT FRANKLIN (Rcvd) Subj: WEATHER PROJECT Maybe I missed something, but did Mark's project not get in within the printing schedule to be in this issue? I am following that with interest and hope he hasn't hit a snag in development. PS The look of the INK is getting more and more snappy with every issue! keep up the good work. Good to see more advertisers (I'm sure you agree). Hope to see the weather project back next issue. Dale Msg#:17371 *INK* 04/17/89 10:19:14 From: CURT FRANKLIN To: DALE REID Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 17288 (WEATHER PROJECT) Dale, the weather center hasn't really hit a snag, but development of the final sections is taking a bit longer than expected. We are planning to finish the weather center, though I can't guarantee that it will be in the next issue. I will promise that the series will finish up before the end of the year. Curt Franklin Msg#:17331 *INK* 04/16/89 21:48:22 From: LEE AHO To: JEFF BACHIOCHI (Rcvd) Subj: RTC31 Jeff, I just read your article on the RTC31 system - great idea! What really interested me was the ability to network the controllers. Where can I find out more about this (without having to wait two months for the next issue of CCI?). Also, 1) Can I get single quantity parts from the sources you list at the end of the article and 2) Can I get a parts list for the RTC31 and the RTCIO board? Lee Msg#:17381 *INK* 04/17/89 11:05:16 From: STEVE CIARCIA To: LEE AHO (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 17331 (RTC31) Ed Nisley is writing the network software right now. Depending upon its complexity we will decide how much of it is distributed free in the magazine. Jeff will be posting a complete parts list for the RTC system on the BBS soon or you can order the manual from CCI. Generally speaking, direct mfr sources don't like single qty orders so it would be best to find one of there local distributors (to you). Most of our designs include parts that can be easily obtained from Jameco, Digikey, JDR, and Mouser. If you have those four catalogs you can build most anything. --Steve Msg#:17383 *INK* 04/17/89 11:13:19 From: JEFF BACHIOCHI To: LEE AHO (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 17331 (RTC31) Lee, If you have ever dealt with distribution you know they don't like to deal in 'onesies'. That's where Jameco, Digi-Key, Mouser etc. come into play. Most of the parts for projects can be purchased from these guys in single quantity. Check the files section of this BBS for addresses and phone numbers. Collect the catalogs and become familiar with who has what. For those of you who want to skip this part, Circuit Cellar Inc. has KITS available for each of the boards. Parts lists, schematics, assembly instructions, and an operation manual comes with each KIT. Protocol for RS-485 is defined differently for each NET. This will depend on how the NET is used. The simplest configuration would be a single master system. Here only one node of the NET can ask for information from any of the other nodes. Thus avoiding message collision. jeff Msg#:17400 *INK* 04/17/89 18:25:52 From: LEE AHO To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 17381 (RTC31) Steve, I usually buy my parts from JDR, Jameco, or Digi-Key. The parts that I can't seem to locate easily are the real-time clock from OKI and the A/D from what I think is Analog Devices. Also, some of your projects have coils from Miller that I can't seem to track down either. Maybe I'm just not looking carefully enough, but not being able to find that one key part can be a very frustrating experience. Lee Msg#:17402 *INK* 04/17/89 19:09:44 From: LEE AHO To: JEFF BACHIOCHI (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 17383 (RTC31) Jeff, As I was telling Steve, I usually buy my parts from JDR, Jameco, and Digi-key. The parts that don't seem readily available are the real-time chip from OKI and the A/D from Analog Devices. Trying to deal "onesies" with manufacturers is a hopeless situation - I learned that a long time ago. It's just frustrating trying to build something when you can't get one or two of the key parts. Well, enough of that noise. I want to talk about networking microcontrollers. I don't know much about networking, so I'll try not to let my lobotomy show. The ones I've heard about are either one long chain of nodes with a master node or a ring of nodes. In the ring, don't the nodes pass "tokens" to one another to communicate? If so, what happens to the network if no node picks up the token? Is the network you're working on anything like this? Lee Msg#:17437 *INK* 04/18/89 07:54:29 From: JEFF BACHIOCHI To: LEE AHO (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 17402 (RTC31) Lee, That is one of the problems with token passing in a ring network. If a node goes down, so does the ring. More sophisticated ring may have a smart ring connection which is able to bypass a node which is down. The system we will be using is a simple twisted pair. RS-485 drives the pair differencially to help cancel noise pickup. A node can be attached to the network anywhere along the twisted pair. Each end of the pair is terminated with 100 ohms. Each node (using a 75176) has both transmit and receive capabilities. Under idle situations all nodes have transmitters disabled. Since only one transmission can take place on the line at any one time, this is where protocols become important. Who can take control of the NET and when? What about message collision? If you can't wait for INK, visit your public library or book store for a wealth of information! jeff Msg#:17452 *INK* 04/18/89 11:03:17 From: STEVE CIARCIA To: LEE AHO (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 17400 (RTC31) Regarding the OKI clock chip or the D/A for the RTC31, just order the upgrade kit for the RTC31 witout the the RTC31 itself. You'll get a few extra resistors, etc, but you'll get the pertinent components. In the case of the clock upgrade, for $25 you get the OKI chip, the battery, battery holder, diodes, and other small stuff. Similarily, in the DC to DC converter upgrade for $15 you get the MAX633 plus the 2 chokes. --Steve Msg#:17350 *INK* 04/17/89 06:45:28 From: GARY LEAR To: JEFF BACHIOCHI (Rcvd) Subj: RTC11 Jeff, I enjoyed your recent networked microcontroller article. I do have a question or two about Steve's comment that a 68HC11 version is soon to be available. Do you know if connectors for the EVM (available from Moto for approxiamtely $500) will be included? Also, since your RTCIO board contains an A/D already, will you use a 68HC11 that does not have the internal A/D or offer an RTCIO with different optioins? I would like to talk to you about this if it isn't too late. My number is (213) 379-0120. Thanks. --Gary Msg#:17384 *INK* 04/17/89 11:20:30 From: STEVE CIARCIA To: GARY LEAR (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 17350 (RTC11) It is just now in the works so your comments are fine. In fact, we probably wouldn't even be doing a 68HC11 board if you hadn't beeen lobbying so much for the HC11. We intend to use the A/D on the chip (8 channels if we settle on the PLCC version but the socket costs a lot more) as well as have it compatible with the A/D on the RTCIO. Of course, the RTCIO is just the first of a few more expansion boards (as soon as we think of others :-). --Steve Msg#:17426 *INK* 04/18/89 04:36:15 From: GARY LEAR To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 17384 (RTC11) I just wish I could have contributed more. :-) BTW, have you considered using the PRU for adding digital I/O? It has the added advantage of allowing users to later move to a ROM part without incurring any software changes. And, since you guys are so on the ball, I assume you have looked at using the MC34064 or something similar for reset. Without it, the EEPROM and CONFIG registers are not very predictable. Thanks for giving the HC11 a chance. BTW, I will soon be on Motorola's consultant list and I told the local people that this board will soon be available. They seemed quite pleased and I am sure they will recommend it to their customers. --Gary Msg#:17456 *INK* 04/18/89 11:10:35 From: STEVE CIARCIA To: GARY LEAR (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 17426 (RTC11) Regarding the reset, we are looking at the Motrola chip and one from Seiko. --Steve Msg#:17495 *INK* 04/19/89 04:33:48 From: GARY LEAR To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 17456 (RTC11) They are supposed to be equivalent, since Motorola originally recommended the Seiko chip before their's was ready. --Gary Msg#:17513 *INK* 04/19/89 09:19:19 From: JEFF BACHIOCHI To: GARY LEAR (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 17495 (RTC11) Gary, At about 50 cents and the size of a transister the MC34064 is a nice device. jeff Msg#:17523 *INK* 04/19/89 12:22:06 From: BOB PADDOCK To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 17456 (RTC11) Check out TI's 770x family of reset parts. Msg#:17546 *INK* 04/20/89 02:00:54 From: GARY LEAR To: JEFF BACHIOCHI (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 17513 (RTC11) Jeff, I just happened to think about this today. I believe the MAX690 would make a nice addition to a companion board. Battery backed-up RAM could be easily supported with a few jumpers and the MC34064 could then be bypassed or deleted altogether. --Gary Msg#:17547 *INK* 04/20/89 02:14:16 From: GARY LEAR To: BOB PADDOCK (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 17523 (RTC11) Bob, I have used the TL7705 and related parts for several of my "conventional"; i.e. NMOS, designs. It has performed very well in those circumstances, and is in fact, still flying test missions. I am quite fond of the part. The problem with it in this design however, is that it does not enter a guaranteed reset condition at less than 3 volts (I have verified this in the lab). The MC34064 on the other hand, goes low at 1 volt and stays there until the threshold is reached. This is critical for the 68HC11, since the EEPROM cells that make up the CONFIG register and the optional 512 byte memory space can be corrupted by random processor cycles. Two volts is the recommended minimum threshold. --Gary Msg#:17569 *INK* 04/20/89 11:59:56 From: JEFF BACHIOCHI To: GARY LEAR (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 17546 (RTC11) Gary, We have used the DS1231, similar but wo/battery switching. Cost vs. board space will come into play here i'm sure. Batteries have always been a sore point with anything we've done. jeff Msg#:17602 *INK* 04/21/89 10:18:18 From: GARY LEAR To: JEFF BACHIOCHI (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 17569 (RTC11) How about supporting the bootstrap capability? I use it in my phone concierge for development and changing operating characteristics without opening the box. I load my own bootstrap from the ROM version and then laod an external 28C64. BTW, please don't forget LIR* and the mode pins. I wish this card had been available when I started work on my museum robot! It would have saved soooo much work! --Gary Msg#:17704 *INK* 04/24/89 16:31:30 From: JEFF BACHIOCHI To: GARY LEAR (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 17602 (RTC11) Gary, How much are you paying for 28C64's? jeff Msg#:17714 *INK* 04/25/89 04:37:11 From: GARY LEAR To: JEFF BACHIOCHI (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 17704 (RTC11) In single's, $25.00 each. I also recently received 2 samples from SEEQ, but since it was beginning to look like they weren't going to arrive in time for my article, I had already ordered two from Schweber. How much are you paying for them? --Gary Msg#:17796 *INK* 04/26/89 11:47:22 From: JEFF BACHIOCHI To: GARY LEAR (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 17714 (RTC11) Gary, As we have discussed on the phone, none of our projects have used EEPROMs so far. They seem to be out of range for most experimenters. The vertical stacking connectors you were asking about are made by Circuit Assembly. A california # is (714) 855-7887. The parts is a VSC series. CA-D(double row)xx(2-72 total # pins)VSC-(T=tin or 10=gold)-(length of pin in inches .308/.413/.630/.830) jeff Msg#:17819 *INK* 04/27/89 00:56:05 From: GARY LEAR To: JEFF BACHIOCHI (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 17796 (RTC11) Thanks. --Gary Msg#:17398 *INK* 04/17/89 17:09:11 From: DAN CRONIN To: ALL Subj: RTC52 INFO I read the CCI article on the RTC31/52 Controllers and have some questions. I am not too familiar with microcontrollers but I am interested in using them for some data collection applications. I have experience in C and BASIC using IBM PC's. and have developed PC software to talk to "smart" Bar Code Readers using RS485 network. I am working on the possibility of adding other devices on this network for data acquisition and control. 1) Can I download 80C52-BASIC programs to the RTC52 from another computer? I would like to write the program using an IBM PC editor and send the program to the RTC52 using the RS232 port. 2) Can I program an EPROM using the RTC52 itself or must I get a prom burner and other hardware and software? 3) The RTC52 uses 6264 or 62256 RAM chips. I a bunch of 43256 RAM's. Will these work? 4) Is the RTCIO board Battery-backed clock also for battery backed RAM? 5) It looks like the RTC52 can use EITHER RS485 OR RS232 but not both. If so is there an expansion board that would allow for more serial ports? 6) Is there another low cost microcontroller from Micromint or others that would allow me to do the above. Thank in advance for any help! Dan Msg#:17442 *INK* 04/18/89 08:34:48 From: JEFF BACHIOCHI To: DAN CRONIN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 17398 (RTC52 INFO) Dan, Basic and even object code can be downloaded to the RTC52 from a PC. BASIC, as a text file, with a pause at each end-of-line (CR) for the processor to tokenized and store the line. Object code in the INTEL.HEX format can be downloaded with Utilities ROM A&B. The programming modes are not supported with the hardware that is on the RTC52 (or RTC31). NEC's 43256 is a valid 8x32k static RAM. Not all manufacturers use the same prefix. Any 8x8k or 8x32k static RAM can be used. No provisions are made for the clock battery to power the RAMs. If battery-backed RAM is necessary, use a RAM module which contains a battery or replace the RAM socket with a smartsocket (Dallas Semiconductor battery-backed socket). The RS-232 and RS-485 drivers run off the same console port. The 80C52 does have an auxiliary serial output port, intended as a printer port, which is bit-banged. If more serial ports are necessary, use the RTC-PROTO board and add more hardware. Micromint has a full line of microcontroller and expansion boards. A quick call will get you on their mailing list 203-871-6170. jeff Msg#:17460 *INK* 04/18/89 11:45:48 From: STEVE CIARCIA To: DAN CRONIN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 17398 (RTC52 INFO) The RTC52 was meant as a low cost end-use OEM controller and not as a development board but, as Jeff described, you can easily use it with a PC running a comm program. The Micromint BCC52/BCC52C/BCC52CX are 80C52-BASIC boards which are intended for development and include EPROM programmers on board. They also have an expansion buss with many peripheral boards available. In the next week or so you should be receiving a Micromint catalog so you can ssee the differences in the boards I've mentioned. At the very least, you could use a BCC52 to develop and save programs in EPROM that would be placed on the RTC52 for execution. In 3.5" x 3.5" there isn't enough room for an EPROM programmer. --Steve Msg#:17525 *INK* 04/19/89 13:01:39 From: DAN CRONIN To: JEFF BACHIOCHI (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 17442 (RTC52 INFO) > The programming modes are not supported with the hardware that is on the RTC52 (or RTC31). What programming modes? Thanks for the reply. Dan Msg#:17526 *INK* 04/19/89 13:09:04 From: DAN CRONIN To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 17460 (RTC52 INFO) Thanks for the info! If you are sending me a catalog to the address I entered when I first signed onto this BBS a while back, its no longer valid. How do I change my address on this BBS? The address should now be: Dan Cronin SyntegraTech, Inc. P.O. Box 1940 Bow, NH 03301 (603) 225-4008 Msg#:17566 *INK* 04/20/89 11:37:42 From: JEFF BACHIOCHI To: DAN CRONIN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 17525 (RTC52 INFO) Dan, BASIC commands within the 8052 burn your BASIC program into an EPROM if the proper hardware is there. Utilities (ROM A&B) give additional commands allowing block moves and block blasts (EPROM programing). This makes copying and modifying EPROMs possible. The BCC52 (Micromint's 8052 development) has the hardware on it for using these commands! jeff Msg#:17621 *INK* 04/21/89 19:24:20 From: MARK BALCH To: JEFF BACHIOCHI (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 17566 (RTC52 INFO) Hi Jeff, I've gotten curious about the ties between CCI and Micromint. Do you work for Micromint also? I noticed that the RTC31 board carried the Micromint copyright as many other CCI/INK products do. Do all INK columnists have access to micromint fabrication facilities? Bye...Mark Msg#:17705 *INK* 04/24/89 16:42:55 From: JEFF BACHIOCHI To: MARK BALCH (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 17621 (RTC52 INFO) Mark, Yes Mark I have many HOT irons! Micromint sales are assembled and tested boards in small and large quantities. CCInc sales are KIT items and the magazine CCINK. Some projects do end up in both companies when they have a broad application base. Anyone can have a project fabricated if there is endless supply of bucks! Just having a good working design is 10% of what it take to bring a product to market. jeff Msg#:17733 *INK* 04/25/89 10:31:54 From: ED NISLEY To: MARK BALCH (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 17621 (RTC52 INFO) (and about half of the remaining 90% is someone like Jeff who can keep all the loose ends in his head and make everything come out precisely right at exactly the right time) Msg#:17742 *INK* 04/25/89 11:35:26 From: STEVE CIARCIA To: MARK BALCH (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 17621 (RTC52 INFO) To answer your question, no CC INK columists have access to Micromint fabrication facilities unless Micromint invites it. --Steve Msg#:17917 *INK* 04/29/89 22:35:13 From: MARK BALCH To: JEFF BACHIOCHI (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 17705 (RTC52 INFO) I thought that getting a professional board with silkscreen, plated through holes and all that jazz was expensive! But originaly, was Micromint part of Circuit Cellar...something like a joint venture between Steve and someothers? I just ask this because all of Micromint's products have appeared in either Circuit Cellar BYTE or INK projects. Msg#:17918 *INK* 04/29/89 22:35:52 From: MARK BALCH To: ED NISLEY (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 17733 (RTC52 INFO) Business technicalities...90%! Msg#:17919 *INK* 04/29/89 22:37:17 From: MARK BALCH To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 17742 (RTC52 INFO) Oh, Micromint's facilities are used by the columnists when Micromint likes a certain project and asks for the rights to market it. Its great to have another company to back up the magazine. Bye...Mark Msg#:17462 *INK* 04/18/89 11:52:30 From: PAUL KINDELL To: KEN DAVIDSON (Rcvd) Subj: CCI#8 Ken, can you tell me when CCI#8 will hit the stores, I have been to 3 different stores 15 times looking for it. my subscription starts in June/July. Thank God I wont have to go through this search mode every month. Also why so late in the month, I get alot of other magizines a full month before it is to be out, I guess that why I have been checking the stores sence March Thanks Paul 00 N81N CIRCUIT CELLAR II......9W2038710549.1200 N81N INTEL BBS..............9W60296 Msg#:17464 *INK* 04/18/89 12:03:35 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: PAUL KINDELL (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 17462 (CCI#8) They should be on the stands either now or within the next week. A rule of thumb that has been given to me by several book stores that handle magazines is that new magazines often show up on Mondays. If that's the case most stores should have gotten the issues yesterday and should have them on the stands by now. I've always thought it pretty silly that magazines show up on stands three months before their cover dates, but it sometimes makes for a longer selling time on the newsstand. Up to now we've been aiming to publish the magazine to be right in the middle of the cover date (January/February was ready to go out in late January or early February). Starting with this issue, we've shifted the cover date by a month so the issue appears near the beginning of the first month. So this issue is the April/May issue and is out in early April. The time between issues hasn't changed, just the cover dates. Msg#:17489 *INK* 04/19/89 02:00:43 From: BURT BROWN To: ALL Subj: 68701 PROGRAMMER Hi, does anyone have any recommendations for a decent (read cheap !) programmer or adapter for the 68701 ? Thanks in advance, Burt... Msg#:17501 *INK* 04/19/89 05:48:41 From: GARY LEAR To: BURT BROWN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 17489 (68701 PROGRAMMER) There is a relatively simple way to use the 68701 to bootstrap itself into onboard programming. You need an external EPROM with the code that you want to download to the 68701. Schematics are in the 6801 manual from Motorola. Call (512) 440-2000, which is Motorola's micro division, and ask for literature. Good luck. --Gary Msg#:17553 *INK* 04/20/89 03:10:22 From: BURT BROWN To: GARY LEAR (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 17501 (68701 PROGRAMMER) I checked my data book and the 68705 has an on-board bootstrap in ROM for EPROM programming. They also show a schematic but there isn't any mention of either in the section on the 68701. Also, it looks like the '701 has a serial port but the '705 does not. This is from the '84 Single Chip Microcomputer Databook. Burt. Msg#:17555 *INK* 04/20/89 03:25:58 From: GARY LEAR To: BURT BROWN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 17553 (68701 PROGRAMMER) There is a specific book on the 6801. My copy is loaned to someone else at the moment, but as I recall, it is approximately 8 x 11 inches and white. I built a programmer from the circuit enclosed, and since I communicated with the aircraft via the serial port... I don't know why your databook doesn't show this. Call Moto's literature number and let me know if I can help. --Gary Msg#:17511 *INK* 04/19/89 09:13:56 From: JOSEPH D GRADECKI To: ALL/ANY Subj: ASSEMBLER Gentlemen, I am looking for a good cross-assembler for the 8031. I would like one that has macro abilities similiar to the macro assembler from microsoft. Conditionals would also be nice. Can anyone recommend one. The one from Intel is a little expensive at $750. joe Msg#:17533 *INK* 04/19/89 16:11:09 From: ED NISLEY To: JOSEPH D GRADECKI (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 17511 (ASSEMBLER) For about 5 bills (I think) you can get AVMAC51 from Avocet. Has most of the stuff you need to write programs, although no structures and suchlike. It's got a complete series of conditionals, enough to pull of most anything you can think of... Unfortunately, the combination of "lots of features" and "low price" tends to be hard to find... particularly if "few bugs" is up there on your feature checklist, too. Msg#:17642 *INK* 04/22/89 15:01:02 From: MICHAEL GRAHAM To: CURT FRANKLIN (Rcvd) Subj: ANOTHER PARALLEL 8031 PROJEC I had suggested to Steve a project similar to the 8031-engine using parallel processors that was published a while ago. The project I have in mind would be one that would use the processors to implement the RSA public key encryption system. This seems like a natural for this type of configuration. How 'bout developing such a project for an upcoming issue of the 'Cellar'? Michael. Msg#:17727 *INK* 04/25/89 09:52:01 From: CURT FRANKLIN To: MICHAEL GRAHAM (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 17642 (ANOTHER PARALLEL 8031 PROJEC) Well, I'll suggest it to Steve and the engineering staff. The problem is that developing a parallel computer is mondo expensive in both dollars and time. We've got enough project ideas that are both more practical and more economical that I can't see another parallel computing engine for quite some time. Curt Franklin Msg#:17790 *INK* 04/26/89 11:11:00 From: BOB PADDOCK To: MICHAEL GRAHAM (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 17642 (ANOTHER PARALLEL 8031 PROJEC) From Dr. Dobb's Journal June 1984 #92 pg 10: Remarks on RSA: I would like to caution the readers against to heavy a reliance on the security aspects of RSA. Earlier this year [1983 or 1984?] Gustavus Simmons, James Davis, and Diane Holdridge of Sandia National Laboratories were able to factor the last of the Mersenne primes (2**251)-1. By using parallel processing of numbers clusters it is simple to extrapolate that RSA will no longer be a secure system. Undoubtedly for general use RSA will continue to be valid. However, with some of these newly developed techniques the only truly secure system must be the old, one-time pad system, in which the volume of ciphertext is insufficient to analyze statistically, and the key changes with a frequency to prevent valid analysis. Cordially, James R. Criscione Jr., M.D. From Byte Magazine July 1985 V10#7 pg 16: Public-Key Patent As part of his article titled "Implementing Cryptographic Algorithms on Microcomputers" (October 1984, page 126), Charles Kluepfel described an implementation of the RSA Public Key algorithm and the BASIC code required. Unfortunately, he did not reference that his RSA Public Key Cryptosystem was patented by the Massachusetts Institute of Technology in 1983 (U.S. Patent 4,405,829). The worldwide exclusive license to this patent was then purchased from MIT by RSA Security Inc., a company founded by the inventors of the RSA algorithm to develop this technology. Because the RSA algorithm has been published in academic journals, most people assume that it is in the public domain, similar to the DES algorithm. Unfortunately, some people have developed software and other products based upon the RSA algorithm without researching this point. Nevertheless, the patent exist and, in the opinion of our corporate attorneys, will be easily defended. As RSA Security Inc. paid a great deal of money for the exclusive patent rights, we plan to actively police the commercial use of the RSA algorithm. The purpose of this letter is not to criticize either Mr. Kluepfel or BYTE for his article. Rather, the purpose is to make you aware of our patent position and ask for your help in educating your readership as to its existence. Based on Mr. Kluepfel's article, more people are going to start expending money and effort developing RSA-based software for commercial purposes. Regrettably, their effort will be wasted unless they obtain a sublicense from us. Therefore, we suggest you publish a reference to our patent in a future issue of BYTE to protect your readers from this lack of knowledge. Ralph Bennett President RSA Security Inc. Sunnyvale, CA 94087 --------------------------------------------------------- Reference: "A method for Obtaining Digital Signatures and Public Key Cryptosystems." R.L. Rivest, A. Shamir, and L.M. Adleman Communications of the Association for Computing Machinery Volume 21, Number 2, February, 1978 Public Key Cryptography John Smith BYTE Magazine Volume 8, Number 1, January 1983 Msg#:17668 *INK* 04/23/89 10:13:02 From: JOHN APPLEYARD To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: LATEST INK Steve, the latest INK was dynamite. Please pass the kudos to the rest of the contributors, editors, and all the other little people involved. Msg#:17718 *INK* 04/25/89 08:08:46 From: MICHAEL POLAK To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: RTC52 First of all, thanks for all of the great articles you have written over the years. They have been very informative, as well as entertaining. I have just received a flyer from Micromint and in the RTC52 section they mention that the network can be interfaced to an AT. Is that true? It must be an AT and not a PC class machine? Any information would be appreciated. Thanks in advance. Msg#:17736 *INK* 04/25/89 11:02:11 From: ED NISLEY To: MICHAEL POLAK (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 17718 (RTC52) Yup, it's an AT-only program. Here's why... The net runs at 19.2 K bits/second, so there are 521 microseconds between bytes. A PC can do about 100 KIPS on a good day, so it can execute all of 50 instructions between network interrupts. An AT is good for about 300 KIPS, so it gets about 150 instructions per interrupt (and it's actually better than that, because some of the instructions run much faster than on an 8088 processor). The network interface routines will probably wind up being a TSR that you can call from your code, so you can write whatever functions you have in mind for your own network. The code will come with a network debugger (of sorts) that includes a console driver so you can develop BASIC programs on 8052 nodes across the network. That program will require an EGA (or VGA) display because it needs to put several simulataneous windows on the screen; using 43 line mode is the only practical way to get enough lines in the console display. While I'd very much like to develop programs that run on the cross product of all possible PC hardware, it's just not feasible! Msg#:17753 *INK* 04/25/89 15:44:05 From: MICHAEL POLAK To: ED NISLEY (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 17736 (RTC52) Thanks for the info. Oh well, time to upgrade systems!!!! Msg#:17780 *INK* 04/26/89 08:46:12 From: ED NISLEY To: MICHAEL POLAK (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 17753 (RTC52) They don't call it the bleeding edge of the wedge for nothing... Msg#:17804 *INK* 04/26/89 15:06:02 From: BILL DUFFY To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: 68XX MCU'S Steve CC is great! But, what about some 68xx MCU projects. HCSII could use one. Looking forward to the next CC. Msg#:17805 *INK* 04/26/89 16:38:01 From: DAVID KING To: CURT FRANKLIN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 5397 (A QUESTION OF INK) 1) I think kits are OK as long as you don't over do it. I think it's easier to learn if everything is not "pre-fab". The techniques used and the difficulties encountered would be interesting to know but not as good as a project that I can build from scratch. 2) I am constantly keeping a look out for quality equipment at a good price. I definately would not be interested in equipment reviews in where the cost is affordable only to the business oriented. Yet, if there's a good product out there that shouldn't be overlooked let me know! 3) It looks to me that many of todays projects are full blown controllers using many of the new microprocessors/controllers available today. What I would really like to see is less complicated projects that excercise the latest features included in the microprocessors. I believe that many of these things are not defined enough so that we can use them to their fullest. I would like to see a series of articles that describe the design of a computer/controller (comparing and choosing) from the many parts available today. Which is the best and why? I think that having a series of articles would allow for questions and bugs to be answered to throughout. Also how about some current info on sleek digital interfacing. Dave Msg#:17886 *INK* 04/29/89 06:53:24 From: MIKE EGAN To: CURT FRANKLIN (Rcvd) Subj: IMAGE WIZE Mike Egan 603-224-5789 I have just sent my first cut of a program (first cut at shareware), which if your policy allows, you may post. It is an ega editor, that by using a mouse allows you to edit an imagewize picture. The basics work, and documentation is included. I'm currently using a laser driver (wip) and will send that when it seems to work. The challange of the exercise was finding commercial librarys or articles on fast video, mouse stuff etc. Now that I've done it, I could share it, perhaps in an article for INC. from the start I've read Byte and noted during the last 5 a drift from what I got into computers for. How can you keep the basic idea of INK, but make it as thick and often as Byte? How can I help? Mike ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Msg#:17954 *INK* 05/01/89 02:09:38 From: JACK PERGAL To: CURTIS N. PAIGE (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 17880 (DOWNLOAD LIMITS) Curtis, your responding to an old message but I think the download limits are still a valid subject. Your idea of off hour limit increases is a good one, and you ought to address it to Ken the sysop.It's aggravating to have to call back the next day to get something you need to make a project work. Jack Msg#:18008 *INK* 05/01/89 20:03:38 From: CURTIS N. PAIGE To: JACK PERGAL (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 17954 (DOWNLOAD LIMITS) Thank you being open minded!!! I've run into too many authoratarians (sp?). C Msg#:18012 *INK* 05/01/89 23:10:23 From: JACK PERGAL To: CURTIS N. PAIGE (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 18008 (DOWNLOAD LIMITS) I'm open minded, but unfortunately I don't have the final word on download limits. Did you buzz Ken Davidson about having unlimited dl's in the wee hours? I still think it's a good idea, however this BBS software has a lot of limits it puts on the sysop. Jack Msg#:18203 *INK* 05/06/89 05:44:18 From: CURTIS N. PAIGE To: JACK PERGAL (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 18012 (DOWNLOAD LIMITS) Actually, no I haven't, last time I was on, I ran out of time. I will drop Ken a message, though. C Msg#:17981 *INK* 05/01/89 10:16:48 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: MIKE EGAN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 17886 (IMAGE WIZE) Thanks for the program. I'll get it posted. Msg#:18037 *INK* 05/02/89 13:44:24 From: CURT FRANKLIN To: MIKE EGAN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 17886 (IMAGE WIZE) Thanks for the program: I see that Ken's going to take care of getting it posted. I'd be interested in seeing a manuscript based on your work. There's an electronic copy of our Author's Guide here on the BBS. If you'd like a hard copy, send me your mailing address and we'll ship one out to you. I was at BYTE before it changed, so I know what you mean about quality. I'd like to see INK carry the same high-standard technical articles that BYTE built its reputation on. We're working toward that goal. How can you help? 1) Subscribe. 2) If you order something from an advertiser, tell them where you saw the ad. 3) When you do something interesting (like your software) write an article about it. If you (and the other CCINK readers) can hold up that end, we'll do everything we can to hold up this end. Curt Franklin Msg#:17985 *INK* 05/01/89 10:44:57 From: JEFF BACHIOCHI To: MARK BALCH (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 17917 (RTC52 INFO) Mark, Micromint started as a support arm for Steve! It has now stretched into a full-fledged manufacturer of OEM equipment. jeff Msg#:18219 *INK* 05/06/89 14:11:37 From: MARK BALCH To: JEFF BACHIOCHI (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 17985 (RTC52 INFO) Ah! The answer I was looking for. Gottcha. Msg#:17986 *INK* 05/01/89 10:48:50 From: JEFF BACHIOCHI To: MARK BALCH (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 17923 (RS-485 INTERFACE) Mark, Yes collision may occur more than once. The potential of each waiting the same amount is small. jeff Msg#:18214 *INK* 05/06/89 13:59:32 From: MARK BALCH To: JEFF BACHIOCHI (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 17986 (RS-485 INTERFACE) What happens if the two requesting nodes get caught in each other (they always conflict), would the entire nework have to be reset and brought back on-line? Bye...Mark Msg#:18277 *INK* 05/08/89 08:46:34 From: JEFF BACHIOCHI To: MARK BALCH (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 18214 (RS-485 INTERFACE) Mark, Steve has made a important point here. This is an information only network. File transfers in a real time controller environment are dangerous. Here is where some type of priority system can help more the important traffic first. jeff Msg#:18522 *INK* 05/13/89 13:51:10 From: MARK BALCH To: JEFF BACHIOCHI (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 18277 (RS-485 INTERFACE) So then, in a real time controller type network, you would implement a star-type LAN? This way the controller can determine which messages are more important and let those go through. Like a traffic cop? Or would someone just not have ANY file transfers in an RTC LAN and use another type of LAN for the file-transfers? Bye...Mark Msg#:18571 *INK* 05/15/89 09:35:03 From: JEFF BACHIOCHI To: MARK BALCH (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 18522 (RS-485 INTERFACE) Mark, It is not illegal to do file transfer, but it does put a heavy burden on the NET. In a real-time controller environment some information which might be held up by a file transfer, will not reach its destination when needed. We wouldn't want the fire department to be delayed because of a file transfer! jeff Msg#:18601 *INK* 05/16/89 04:56:45 From: GARY LEAR To: MARK BALCH (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 18522 (RS-485 INTERFACE) In a robot distributed processing system that I designed, I used a Master Communications Controller (MCC or emcee if you are into puns) that could override everyone else. This link was for commands and small data transfers. A seperate high speed link ran between processors that needed to transfer large data blocks between each other. This setup was optically isolated to reduce noise. --Gary Msg#:18741 *INK* 05/20/89 17:41:33 From: MARK BALCH To: JEFF BACHIOCHI (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 18571 (RS-485 INTERFACE) I get what you mean. I am not really sure that I'll be having much file xfers or real time applications. Whatever I do will be on a small scale so I won't have a fancy computer driven burglar alarm and dozens of sensors around my house. Taking this into account, I will probably start out with a single network, but if I ever really expand then I'll just have two networks, one (slow) for RTC and the other (fast) for file transfers. Bye...Mark Msg#:18742 *INK* 05/20/89 17:44:40 From: MARK BALCH To: GARY LEAR (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 18601 (RS-485 INTERFACE) So in your application, was the net a star type or did it have separate control lines besides the data and ground lines? This is the only way I could envision any master controller being able to override other nodes; it couldn't just break in during a transfer or everyone on the net would get confused. How can opto-isolators cut line noise? I know that fiber optic cable would defiantely eliminate line noise, but with wires, the noise could still travel regardless of the opto-isolators. Bye...Mark Msg#:18805 *INK* 05/23/89 02:45:07 From: GARY LEAR To: MARK BALCH (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 18742 (RS-485 INTERFACE) The original design did have a seperate line to indicate that the MCC was going to transmit a command. A later version placed message length limits on the other nodes ( these limits do not apply to the dedicated lines ) and the master would then take over at the end of each transmission block. Since this link is only for commands, 20 bytes are more than enough to send any instruction. The optocouplers isolate the processors from the noise generated by the motors. This is accomplished with a small seperate battery for the comm channels. It works quite well. --Gary Msg#:18806 *INK* 05/23/89 02:50:14 From: GARY LEAR To: MARK BALCH (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 18742 (RS-485 INTERFACE) Mark, my system also checks for collisions. This is done very simply in a multi-point system by having the receiver connected to the transmitter output (there really isn't any other way to connect them) and checking the RECV buffer after a XMIT. If they match, fine; if not, a collision took place. --Gary Msg#:19469 *INK* 06/11/89 11:14:02 From: MARK BALCH To: GARY LEAR (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 18805 (RS-485 INTERFACE) Was that network implemented with a normal RS-485 line and a standard UART? Or did you use a normal I/O port and shift bits around in software? Msg#:19470 *INK* 06/11/89 11:16:36 From: MARK BALCH To: GARY LEAR (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 18806 (RS-485 INTERFACE) That makes sense. How high has your network gone (bps)? I was thinking about asynchronous vs clocked data and clocked allows for faster transmission. DO you know what method is used to send such high speed data without errors in those large coaxial based networks which don't use clocked data? Msg#:19556 *INK* 06/13/89 02:06:20 From: GARY LEAR To: MARK BALCH (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 19469 (RS-485 INTERFACE) Neither. I used a SPI (serial peripheral interface) on the 68HC11. This gave me much greater control over the bit stream without excessive overhead. --Gary Msg#:19557 *INK* 06/13/89 02:16:02 From: GARY LEAR To: MARK BALCH (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 19470 (RS-485 INTERFACE) I only use it for short transmissions, so I have only gone to 9600 bps so far. I am not sure what networks use, but IBM has employed bi-phase techniques (Steve did an article on it years ago) that encode the clock and data for some time now. --Gary Msg#:19848 *INK* 06/18/89 12:09:43 From: MARK BALCH To: GARY LEAR (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 19556 (RS-485 INTERFACE) How fast will the SPI go on a 2MHz 68HC11? Why didn't you try the SCI which I think it also has? Bye...Mark Msg#:19849 *INK* 06/18/89 12:11:45 From: MARK BALCH To: GARY LEAR (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 19557 (RS-485 INTERFACE) Would the biphase then have each bit preceeded by a "clock" bit? Something like: 11 10 10 11 (data = 1001) If this is what the Bi-Phase is it isn't too hard to use, is it? Bye...Mark Msg#:19866 *INK* 06/19/89 04:10:57 From: GARY LEAR To: MARK BALCH (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 19848 (RS-485 INTERFACE) The actual mamimum E clock frequency is 2.1 MHz. The maximum frequency of the SPI master is 1.05 MHz, that of the slave is 2.1 MHz. I chose to use the SPI instead of the SCI because of the increased speed and the flexibility of the total bit stream. My principal regret was that the SPI cannot automatically recognize an address byte (neither can the SCI, the only parts that I know of that can are Zilog Z8 series). This caused some problems with throughput. --Gary Msg#:19867 *INK* 06/19/89 04:17:01 From: GARY LEAR To: MARK BALCH (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 19849 (RS-485 INTERFACE) No, the clock is logically combined with the data into a single signal. Check Steve's original article (early 1980's) for details. --Gary Msg#:20090 *INK* 06/23/89 23:03:34 From: MARK BALCH To: GARY LEAR (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 19866 (RS-485 INTERFACE) I think that one of the 6805 family has a built in wake up feature to Why would the master and slave's E clock have different maximum ratings? If they aren't at the same frequency then how can they communicate with a synchronus bit stream? Bye...Mark Msg#:18213 *INK* 05/06/89 13:57:33 From: MARK BALCH To: STEVE SAMPSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 17925 (RS-485 INTERFACE) So does that mean that each node would not even have a "random" number generator for the waiting period? And it would have a set amount of time, say 50 ms? I understand what you said about 19.2K Baud having less problems because of its speed, but using thi technique (where each node waits a fixed amount of time) it is theoretically possible to have a locked/crashed network between only two nodes: they botkeep requesting data at the same time forever. What exists to prevent this? Bye...Mark Msg#:18224 *INK* 05/06/89 17:29:54 From: STEVE SAMPSON To: MARK BALCH (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 18213 (RS-485 INTERFACE) Well I didn't mean to say the nodes would talk at the same time. By checking the line for data, waiting some random time, then checking again, before transmitting. What I was alluding to was that the time delay is not required to be pure random. Say odd seconds first, then maybe even seconds next? As far as the data is concerned, I doubt that any file transfer over it will be conducted. Just commands and data replys with possibly fixed packet lengths. I'm only guessing. Msg#:18521 *INK* 05/13/89 13:49:06 From: MARK BALCH To: STEVE SAMPSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 18224 (RS-485 INTERFACE) So there are very successful systems that use this simple method of network "talking?" Do most LANs that use coaxial cable use this method? I always assumed that the coaxial cable (only 2 conductors) had one line for bi-directional data and the other for ground. When I finally get a chance to design my next board, I'm going to definately incorporate RS-485 comm so that I can start experimenting with simple networking. Bye...Mark Msg#:18529 *INK* 05/13/89 20:52:21 From: STEVE SAMPSON To: MARK BALCH (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 18521 (RS-485 INTERFACE) Well LAN covers a broad spectrum. There are many configurations. Some only connect with neibors, some are connected to everyone, and some are connected to a main computer (IBM AT) all on a single twisted pair. These "Multi- Access" systems typically do just listen and send if clear. And send again if the packet is not Acknowledged. The model I would reference for the listen- talk type of system; would be the Amateur Radio Packet system. Check a local library for the ARRL Handbook (1976 onward). This has everything I personally know about these things other than "theory". I think even that example is far too complex for what is needed for a home network of the type being discussed. Msg#:18740 *INK* 05/20/89 17:38:36 From: MARK BALCH To: STEVE SAMPSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 18529 (RS-485 INTERFACE) Allright, in that case when I do start my network, I'll just use a plain RS-485 interface and limited support software for it. From what you told me and from what I've been thinking about it, designing a LAN doesn't sound so hard besides for physical problems like transmission speed and noise/shielding. Bye...MArk Msg#:18650 *INK* 05/17/89 12:04:10 From: MARCUS HALL To: MARK BALCH (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 17923 (RS-485 INTERFACE) Re: Random backoff on transmission collision.. As you mentioned, if two nodes collided and backed off for the same length of time (because they have the same program and therefore the same pseudo-random number generator), they would collide again and thus back off again for a "random" time (which would be the same), etc. forever. However.. Just because the two nodes contain the same code doesn't mean that they are IDENTICAL. In fact, at some point each has to have a different node number on the network, and that has to be on a DIP switch, resolved at power-up, or something. Thus there are SOME differences between nodes and this should be used to seed the pseudo-random number generator. This will insure that both nodes don't back off for the same length of time and repeatedly collide with each other. Now, collision DETECTION is sometimes a bit tricky. Ethernet nodes listen before and DURING transmission. If a transmitting node hears another node transmit, it sends out a long signal that is guaranteed to cause all nodes to recognize the collision. This is the reason for a minimum packet length on ethernet. On the RS485 network, it should be possible to listen to the network while transmitting, so collisions should be detectable. By forcing a BREAK condition on the network, it should be possible to force all nodes to recognize a collision. This could be entirely avoided if the at the expense of throughput. In this case, each node would just listen to the network and transmit if it's quiet, else wait and try again. If there is a collision, the upper levels will time out and re-try. With collision detection, the lower level could decide to re-transmit a packet much faster. marcus hall Msg#:18746 *INK* 05/20/89 18:02:46 From: MARK BALCH To: MARCUS HALL (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 18650 (RS-485 INTERFACE) Now that you mentioned the small differences in the nodes (ID numbers and other config info) I see how the "back-off" time would always be different even if all nodes had different software. I am still a bit fuzzy on the collision detection. You said that the transmitting node would watch the line *during* the transmission. So would the node have to compare all the bits it is sending out to all the bits on the net's data line? And if they didn't match, it would cause some sort of network reset and resend the data packet? That would be tricky... I understand that eventhough I probably couldn't implement it myself right not; but how could the transmitting node cause a system reset or break? Any signal sent would then conflict with the other colliding nodes' signals causing more chaos. What's wrong with the nodes just waiting a specific amount of time before re-sending the packet after a colliion? Re implementing collision detection on a simple network, why couldn't the sending nodes just wait a certain amount of time for an ACK signal and if a timeout occurs then wait (assume a collision) and re-send if the line is clear? Bye...Mark Msg#:18822 *INK* 05/23/89 14:25:00 From: MARCUS HALL To: MARK BALCH (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 18746 (RS-485 INTERFACE) Collision Detection: Since each node's Tx and Rx lines are tied onto the network, the receiver is able to listen to the characters as they are transmitted. Thus, as characters are transmitted from a buffer, another pointer can be used to walk along verifying received characters against the same buffer. If the network runs in asynchronous mode (which is [basically] all that the 8031 supports on the built-in serial channel), then the network must be in a "1" state between characters. The network acts like a "wired or" so that any node can send a "0" on the network, but all nodes have to be outputting "1" for the network to be in "1" state (actually, I guess this is really a "wired AND"). The normal asynchronous idle output is "1" (between characters, and between messages). If a collision is detected, a node can pull the network to "0" for long enough to insure that the entire network receives a framing error (missing stop bit) and thus any packets that may have been collided with are guaranteed to be aborted. The advantage of collision detection (whether or not an abort indication is generated) is to automatically delay and retransmit at a lower level. The upper level of protocol has to implement some form of acknowledgement and retransmission scheme, but since the lower level may retransmit normally, the upper level's timeout must be fairly long in comparrison to the backoff time. Thus, relying on the upper level to recover from collision could delay retransmission by an order of magnitude or more. If the network is lightly loaded so that the chance of collision is small and if there is no CRITICAL reason that the packets cannot wait, then it is reasonable to ignore collision detection entirely. It is really only useful for improving efficiency. On the other hand, it doesn't really cost any more hardware. It would be reasonable to ignore it on a first version (and second, ...) and get other things working first. It could be added later (even added to only one test node in the network first! marcus hall Msg#:19471 *INK* 06/11/89 11:24:33 From: MARK BALCH To: MARCUS HALL (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 18822 (RS-485 INTERFACE) Why would one node have to pull the network to a 0 state? Once a collision happened, the two nodes (or 3 or 4...) that collided would backoff, wait a variable amount of time and retransmit. Msg#:20294 *INK* 06/29/89 17:44:10 From: MARCUS HALL To: MARK BALCH (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 19471 (RS-485 INTERFACE) The reason for pulling the net to 0 on detecting a collision while transmitting is to insure that the other transmitting node is aware of the collision. This insures that both nodes that were transmitting handle recovery in the datalink access layer instead of having an upper level protocol timeout and cause retransmission. It really isn't all that likely that one node would detect a collision and the other wouldn't, but the chances are non-zero. One node would have to be sending data where it desired a '0' while the other desired a '1' in each bittime of the characters being transmitted. Note that the start/stop bits may line up with data bits from the other node. Anyhow, if the other node was sending '1' whenever this node wanted to send '1', the node wouldn't ever see the collision. By having the other node send '0' for a character time or two, it guarantees that this node cannot send a good stop bit and would thus detect the collision. It gets even more interesting at 10MB/s speeds where the distance down the cable becomes significant since 1 bit-time represents a measurable distance on the cable! marcus hall Msg#:19135 *INK* 05/31/89 22:09:32 From: GORDON VANDENBURG To: ED NISLEY (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 17282 (RS-485 INTERFACE) What is the next issue of CC ink? I think my renewal has been delayed most likely from the shear popularity of CC ink. However the "RS-485 INTERFACE" is not the same as the "MC-Net" that is mentioned in the new MICRO MINT catalog, is it? Does this "simple net" that you folks are dicussing involve any secondary serial ports similar to the "BCC 18"? If so would these be available for the RTC52? I'm also involved with RS-485 option on BCC 18, proticol and grounds have given me a few headaches also. I'm looking foward to seeing how you guys have implemented these. Keep up the good work! :-) Gordie Msg#:19204 *INK* 06/02/89 11:01:03 From: ED NISLEY To: GORDON VANDENBURG (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 19135 (RS-485 INTERFACE) I'll duck the question about when you should get the next issue, because I haven't the foggiest idea when what issue shows up where. If it's any hint, I just picked up Issue #10 from the heap that got hand-carried back from the printer... As far as MCNet, here's roughly what's going on: The RTC boards have an RS-485 interface which you can use for anything you like (although it connects to the same serial I/O as the RS-232 interface, so you've got to be a little careful about it). The network code runs on the RTC52 and gives you a nifty BASIC-language set of commands to send & receive messages. It uses the RS-485 interface to connect to the network; you can do everything over the net that you used to do from the serial terminal talking directly to BASIC. MCNet and INKNet are the code in the nodes (ouch!), plus some PC code that gives you consoles for all the RTC52s, plus debugging and tracing displays and so forth. We'll be distributing the INKNet programs on the BBS as usual, while the MCNet programs (which have more bells & whistles) will be Micromint products and are intended for industrial use. Issue 10 has an introduction to the whole idea of networking for controller applications, and Issue 11 will concentrate on the INKNet implementation. We have an RS-485 adapter that turns a stock serial port into an RS-485 net connections, and I'll be describing some of the grisly code on the PCs (well, ATs) that makes it all work... you'll get your fill of protocols in a while! We are coming up with a bidirectional optoisolator for the RS-485 links, although it's not clear whether we'll tackle whole lightning protection issue or just fink out by solving ground loops and let it go at that... Make any sense? Msg#:19282 *INK* 06/06/89 09:11:26 From: GORDON VANDENBURG To: ED NISLEY (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 19204 (RS-485 INTERFACE) Makes alot of sense, thanks. With the optoisolator, do you eliminate the 32 node restriction? You may have opened a can of worms by mentioning that copy of CCI Ink #10. Can I stop by and pick up a copy also? :-) When will the code for the INKNet be posted? Thanks for the response. GORDIE Msg#:19285 *INK* 06/06/89 09:33:35 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: GORDON VANDENBURG (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 19282 (RS-485 INTERFACE) Issue #9 of INK mailed late last week, so people should be receiving them soon. Issue #10 is due to start mailing August 1. Code for INKnet won't be posted until after the second part of the two-part article is published in issue #11, which isn't due to hit the stands until October 1. Once October 1 rolls around, then you can start looking for code. Msg#:19333 *INK* 06/07/89 13:26:06 From: ED NISLEY To: GORDON VANDENBURG (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 19282 (RS-485 INTERFACE) The only can of worms is between my ears. It was Issue 9 that just showed up around here. Issue 10 is the one that has the first article about the network stuff, which I just handed to Curt. He's pretty wonderful, but can't quite manage that sort of turnaround! Sorry... The 32 node limitation is based on the electrical limits of the drivers, so if you optoisolated a group of them you could build a really huge network. The problem comes about when you're trying to arbitrate access to the network; you can't use collision detection with bidirectional optoisolators (think about it... which way should they turn on?), so you need to do some sort of polling. Depending on your response time requirements, this may not pose a real problem. The software is limited to 32 nodes simply because that is a convenient upper limit for binary sorts of things. Making it bigger is, um, a simple matter of software and a few electronic widgets. Msg#:19559 *INK* 06/13/89 02:22:28 From: GARY LEAR To: ED NISLEY (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 19204 (RS-485 INTERFACE) Ed, some time ago I mentioned to Steve that I had developed a serial optically isolated multi-point interface for use on my robot project. Are the details of any interest to you? --Gary Msg#:19578 *INK* 06/13/89 09:54:45 From: ED NISLEY To: GARY LEAR (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 19559 (RS-485 INTERFACE) Not only am I interested, but, judging from the chatter around here, so is everyone else... My upcoming articles on the RS-485 network for the RTC boards will give one approach to the problem; your hardware and code apply to a completely different situation. Our readers (the ones in the magazine, as well as those peering into CRTs) would certainly enjoy an article detailing your approach... contrasts and comparisons are welcome! Yo, Curt! You around? Send this man the Author's Bundle and don't take "no" for an answer! He knows what he's talking about, he's done the work, he can rite good woids, and he's got some time on his hands (Hee, hee!); what better qualifications can we ask? Msg#:19598 *INK* 06/13/89 17:30:19 From: BOB PADDOCK To: ED NISLEY (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 19578 (RS-485 INTERFACE) I fina{y found that RS-485 opto circuit that I rembered it was in Electronic Products/Nov 1, 198{ 1987. "Opportunity knocks for New Optocouplers" pg 57-62. Th{ They use HP's HCPL-2400 and a uA96176. The interesting pa{t is that all of the nodes are powered by just one issolated supply (5VDC to 5VDC{. [That's what it says, its not real clear how you get the power to the other nodes from the circuit that is shown.] Msg#:19630 *INK* 06/14/89 02:04:07 From: GARY LEAR To: ED NISLEY (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 19578 (RS-485 INTERFACE) I already have one article in to Curt for the next issue. Unfortunately, my recent relapse may prevent me from finishing it in time. I will send some specifics on my interface in a few days. Thanks for them kind words! --Gary Msg#:20300 *INK* 06/29/89 19:03:50 From: GORDON VANDENBURG To: ED NISLEY (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 19333 (RS-485 INTERFACE) OK FOLKS HOW DOES ONE GO ABOUT SETTING "T0" ON THE RTC52 TO USE THE RS485 ??? :-) GORDIE Msg#:20328 *INK* 06/30/89 08:19:36 From: JEFF BACHIOCHI To: GORDON VANDENBURG (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 20300 (RS-485 INTERFACE) Gordon, T0 is not reachable from BASIC. See page 16 "Getting Started" of the RTC31/52 manual for more info! jeff Msg#:18050 *INK* 05/03/89 00:43:48 From: BRIAN JOSEPH To: GARY LEAR (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 17350 (RTC11) I received a data book from Moto about an 68HC805B6. What a part! EEPROM for program storage....I wanted to make a portable (hand held) terminal based on this part and use RAM cards for data storage. Also, the terminal would be able to be reprogrammed in the field....But, when I called my local distributor, he told me the part wasn't in production...that was awhile ago...Is the part in production yet? What about cost??? Thanks...Brian. Msg#:18055 *INK* 05/03/89 03:34:14 From: GARY LEAR To: BRIAN JOSEPH (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 18050 (RTC11) I have heard about the B6 and I know that app notes are being written for it, but I am afraid that all of my current focus is on the HC11. I don't have any recent info on the B6, but I will check on it. --Gary Msg#:18109 *INK* 05/04/89 11:32:48 From: KEVIN RUSSELL To: BRIAN JOSEPH (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 18050 (RTC11) Brian, Take a look at the DS5000/2250 microcontroller chips from Dallas Semiconductor. (214-450-0470) These are 8031 core controllers with the addition of 8,32, or 64K of nonvolatile RAM. The chip has the ability to accept programming via the serial port in Intel hex format. I built a hand held terminal/controller with a 32K version of the chip. The system includes a LCD, 20 key keyboard, and serial port. It requires only five chips and is powered by an off the shelf 9 volt battery. The DS5000 is hard to come by right now because of SRAM shortages but you should be able to get one from Allied Electronics. (800-433-5700) The part costs from $50-100 depending on RAM etc but is well worth it for certain applications. There is even a version with an integrated real time clock. Call Dallas and ask for the DS5000 Users Guide, Part # DS5000G. You might also ask for the 1989 data book. It has lots of interesting chips. Kevin Msg#:18149 *INK* 05/05/89 10:37:47 From: STEVE CIARCIA To: KEVIN RUSSELL (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 18109 (RTC11) Kevin, how about writing up your DS5000-based terminal design as an article for CC INK? --Steve Msg#:18161 *INK* 05/05/89 14:19:01 From: KEVIN RUSSELL To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 18149 (RTC11) Steve, I entered the design in the CCI contest and submitted an article with it. There is also a brief article on the DS5000 family of microcontrollers. Curtis Franklin should have it. Kevin Msg#:18082 *INK* 05/03/89 17:12:19 From: ED NISLEY To: RENE NUNEZ (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 17924 (WORKING WITH LCDS) Hmm... if those LCD boards are anything like the ones I got, you ought to be able to read the LCD controller number right off the chip. Is it anything close? The number of characters in a "logical" row isn't quite what you think it is. What that measures is the number of addresses in the Display RAM between the start of successive visible rows. The rows you see on the display each begin at the start of a logical row. The default value of 64 should work just fine; try it and see. The displays are reasonably rugged; when I was setting things up for the article I had one display that just did not work for beans. Got a blister when I picked it up; had the power supply connected backwards. Turned it off, cooled it down, flipped the wires, turned it back on, and it worked just fine. So much for fragile electronics... If you've taken reasonable precautions you haven't destroyed the things; more likely than not you've got a ground missing between the power supply and the PC. Check for continuity rather than voltage! When you turn the displays on with nothing but power connected (and the contrast line tied to ground, too) you should see the first logical row of the display show dim gray squares over each character position. That's a good sign because it means you're getting scanning and so forth from the default chip setup. After than, running LCDTEST with no other parameters should provoke some sort of jumping and dancing. One other thing to check is your printer port connection... do you have the wires going to the same port address LCDTEST is using? I wish that were a silly question, but I've gotten burned a few times on it myself! Take another whack at it and report back! Msg#:18221 *INK* 05/06/89 16:44:06 From: KEVIN O'CONNOR To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: HD64180 Steve, What is a good hobbyist source of the HD64180 or Z180 chip? I can't find it in any of the usual hobbyists sources. Is it expensive? Thanks. Kevin O'Connor Msg#:18297 *INK* 05/08/89 13:44:05 From: DUSTIN CLAMPITT To: KEVIN O'CONNOR (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 18221 (HD64180) Kevin, I've discovered a great new source (new to me anyway) of all sorts of electronic stuff, it's an outfit called Active Electronics and it is the retail outlet division of Future Electronics. They have a TON of stuff including micro-controllers, CPUs, peripheral chips, etc., etc.,... They also have the HD64180. What they don't have is the special 64 Pin socket that you need for a 64180. Maybe someone else can help us with that acquisition. The have retail outlets in Westborough, MA., Woburn, MA., Bohemia, N.Y. (on L.Island), Detroit, Seattle & Santa Clara, CA. They say there will soon be stores in Chicago, Baltimore, Dallas & two in L.A. For more info: 1-800-active4 (outside New England) 1-800-active6 (within New England) Dustin Clampitt Msg#:18302 *INK* 05/08/89 15:07:25 From: STEVE CIARCIA To: KEVIN O'CONNOR (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 18221 (HD64180) The 64180/Z180 can be ordered from Micromint with the socket. --Steve Msg#:18230 *INK* 05/06/89 20:23:12 From: LARRY HOLLIBAUGH To: JEFF BACHIOCHI (Rcvd) Subj: RTC31 SCHEMATIC Ed, the RTC31 in INK #8 is a great piece of engineering! I think I have found one error on the schematic (Fig. 1b). It seems obvious from JP8 and JP12 that U9 is intended for EPROM and U8 is for RAM in a normal system. That is, an EPROM would likely start somewhere in the bottom 32K, but a RAM could be anywhere. JP14 and JP13 are set up for just the opposite... U9 has the option to be only in data space and U8 has the option to be only in code space. Since most applications would probably use the overlapping space of *GET, this is really a minor point. May the 8031 live long and prosper. BTW, what is your experience with the TASM 8031 assembler in the files area of this board? Thanks! -Larry Msg#:18293 *INK* 05/08/89 13:05:11 From: ED NISLEY To: LARRY HOLLIBAUGH (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 18230 (RTC31 SCHEMATIC) (This one got addressed to Jeff, but I bet I'm the "Ed" you mean...) I'll defer to Jeff on the jumpers... All I know about TASM was a quick look through the doc; based entirely on that, it seems to have all the bases covered quite nicely. I think it's probably easier to figure out and more standard than the PseudoSAM assembler. That means I should probably figure out what changes I need to make to my code to support any of the assemblers. Anybody have any direct experience with it? Msg#:18292 *INK* 05/08/89 13:00:32 From: ROB SCOTT To: ED NISLEY (Rcvd) Subj: LCD CONTRAST PROBLEM Thanks for the great article on LCD controllers, and the checkout code. I have two 40x2 displays, which I had not been able to get working, but worked fine with your code. After duplicating your setup info (on a homebrew small 6502 based system), I was able to get the displays to work. Now the problem: They only work in single line mode! That is, when using the -r: switch in your code, the display fades to near invisibility. Only by holding them at a 45 deg. angle and under bright light, can I see anything at all. This behavior is also duplicated on my homebrew controller. I'd say it's a duty cycle related problem, but I don't know how to verify my guess and/or fix it. I've tried both 40x2 displays, and both exhibit the problem. They came from Timeline Inc, with application notes, about 6 months ago. Thanks in advance for any pointers! Rob Scott Msg#:18315 *INK* 05/08/89 17:18:35 From: ED NISLEY To: ROB SCOTT (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 18292 (LCD CONTRAST PROBLEM) Sounds like you've got the problem diagnosed pretty well... Although the displays I was using will work with Vee (the contrast terminal) tied to ground, I've also used some that require a distinct negative voltage to make anything happen. In fact, some of the older large graphics displays put more current through the Vee terminal than they drew from the +5v supply! As the number of displayed rows increases, the Vee current must increase to "turn on" the pels to the same degree. If your datasheets give a specification for the Vee voltage you can try twiddling it until you get better contrast. I _strongly_ suggest that you use a negative voltage source in series with a resistor and measure the current as you decrease (make more negative) the Vee voltage. That way you can make your mistakes in small doses and maybe recover before things go sour. Start with the contrast voltage (measured at the terminal on the board) at about +2v and drop it down to about -5 volts in slow steps. If there's a sudden jump in current or things go nuts on the display, that's a sign you've done something wrong. What should happen is that the "off" dots on the LCD will get darker and darker until you can't tell the difference between off and on... if you go further, the dots will actually reverse a little until the characters are light on a dark background! Try a little negativity and tell us what happened! Msg#:18381 *INK* 05/09/89 22:25:21 From: MIKE HOLLAND To: SYSOP (Rcvd) Subj: MAG SUBSCRIPTION He!!! My last issue has arrived. My partner recieved his 2-3 weeks ago. What's up? Msg#:18406 *INK* 05/10/89 09:18:59 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: MIKE HOLLAND (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 18381 (MAG SUBSCRIPTION) Well, if your last issue *has* arrived, what's the problem? ;-) Give Rose a call at (203) 875-2199 and ask her to check into it. Msg#:18413 *INK* 05/10/89 11:21:05 From: STEVE CIARCIA To: MIKE HOLLAND (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 18381 (MAG SUBSCRIPTION) Actually, much of it has to do with your local post office. 2nd class mail (magazines) and 3rd class (junk mail) are often thrown in the corner of the post office and delivered as they see fit (they don't like to overfil their mailbag). If the magazine comes in at a time when many companies are doing massive mailings (spring and fall), it will sit there longer in the corner waiting for mailbag space. Folio (trade magazine for magazine publishers) recent had an article that suggested that fully 10% of third class mail gets trashed by mailmen who don't think it is worth delivering. Now, add to that the group that hate computers and don't think you should be reading CC INK, the crooks that love it but won't pay for a copy (they read yours), the incompetents that deliver it to the wrong address anyway, and the dim wits who purposely give your mail to someone else just to piss you off (usually the year following a missed Xmas envelope for the postman, strangely enough). Actually, I think you are lucky to get it at all :-) --Steve Msg#:18425 *INK* 05/10/89 19:02:28 From: JACK PERGAL To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 18413 (MAG SUBSCRIPTION) I opened my mail box once to discover something about the sixw of a big Sears catalog. Seems the P.O. gave me a whole pack of flyers from some computer outfit. Each flyer had someones name and address on it, but mine was on the bottom so I got the whole stack. Jack Msg#:18383 *INK* 05/09/89 22:49:52 From: JAMES MEYER To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 17278 (RFI NOISE) Thanks Steve I recieved the authors guide in the mail recently. I realize I will be following in the footsteps of giants, but perhaps a bit of my hard won experience will be of use to some of our readers. I am looking forward to repaying a debit of information I owe due to following your articles since day one. Is "Take my computer 'please'" still in print? And whatever happened to Wayne Green anyway? CUL Jim Msg#:18412 *INK* 05/10/89 10:57:04 From: STEVE CIARCIA To: JAMES MEYER (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 18383 (RFI NOISE) I look forward to such an RFI article and we have editorial people to help with the organization and flow. Regarding "Take my computer Please", when you submit the article remind me and I'll send you an autographed copy. It is out of print but I have a few copies. --Steve Msg#:18385 *INK* 05/09/89 23:09:05 From: JAMES MEYER To: ED NISLEY (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 17529 (RFI NOISE) There are two ways to get rid of the bad efects of RFI. You can stop them at the source, or you can eliminate the sensitivity of the equiptment being interfered with. I personally doubt that the welder can be made sanitary without completely redesigning it. That leaves the computer as the most economical candidate for protection. There are two ways for interference to get into it. One is through the AC line, and that can be effectively dealt with even if you have to use an isolation transformer. It has to handle 200 watts at most. The other way is the antenna effect of parts such as the keyboard or printer, and there the RS chokes should be effective at a moderate cost. Many man hours of engineering go into even the most simple circuitry nowadays, but it seems that RFI protection is always an afterthought (if indeed it is thought of at all). Granted, it isnt as glamourous as working with the latest state-of-the-art sub-nanosecond laser coupled FIFO decimator, but if your next project won't work in the same room as a microwave oven, someone somewhere will claim you're not the circuit whiz you claim to be. Msg#:18489 *INK* 05/12/89 10:59:18 From: ED NISLEY To: JAMES MEYER (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 18385 (RFI NOISE) The trouble with engineering is that you're trying to make something work under all possible conditions... most of which you don't have any control over. And when it doesn't work, you're at fault. The original IR Master Controller worked just fine in a rather dim room, but failed under the fluorescent lights in a conference room. We adjusted the photodetector to run under those lights, but should we have also tested it in bright sunlight? Probably, but the circuit would have run out of dynamic range somewhere along the way. Should we redesign the circuit to handle all possible ambient lighting conditions? Nope... we pretty much assume it won't get used outdoors and hope for the best. Running a welder anywhere near ordinary electronics is certainly asking for trouble; there are enough design flaws to go around! But you're right about leaving the RFI (and static discharge) considerations until the absolute last moment, then managing to ignore them completely. Most of the time it works, but the failures are really baffling when they happen. Msg#:18617 *INK* 05/16/89 16:59:19 From: AUKE VAN.BALEN To: ED NISLEY (Rcvd) Subj: IMAGEWISE/PC Hurray! Got my long-expected Imagewise/PC today! Took ages to cut tru the red tape of the company's purchasing and goods inward departments, but finally... Thanks for the effort, both the Circuit Cellar staff in the U.S. and mr. Gupta of JB Designs. To judge from some of the dates/timestamps of the software it must have been a hell of a job for you, Ed, to get the stuff out of the door. When I can get access to a scanning electron microscope -no free instrument right now- I'll hook the Imagewise/PC up to it and let's see how our pictures look when digitized. Best regards, Auke van Balen Philips Electron Optics Eindhoven The Netherlands P.S. You *do* watch 'Good morning America'? This week centered on Holland! Msg#:18641 *INK* 05/17/89 09:23:08 From: ED NISLEY To: AUKE VAN.BALEN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 18617 (IMAGEWISE/PC) Thanks for the kudos... If you run into problems, this is the fastest way to get help. Given the trouble we had with nonstandard NTSC sync, I shall not be surprised to hear that whatever your microscope produces isn't quite like anything we've ever seen before -- and you know what _that_ means! For what it's worth, I am absolutely the right person to do TV work because Mary & I have never gotten around to buying a TV. This is a critical social flaw, because all conversations start off with "Did you see ... last night?" which is a signal for us to scuffle our feet a bit. Msg#:18652 *INK* 05/17/89 12:34:01 From: STEVE CIARCIA To: AUKE VAN.BALEN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 18617 (IMAGEWISE/PC) Ed forgot to mention that another improvement to the PAL software was shipped off to JB today. Keep in touch with Gupta and upgrade you IW/PC when they get it. --Steve Msg#:19814 *INK* 06/17/89 10:26:17 From: PELLERVO KASKINEN To: ED NISLEY (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 18641 (IMAGEWISE/PC) Greetings from another one who never got into buying a TV! (To those who wonder why, I say I can listen to radio while I am reading some books or electronics and computer magazines, but I hardly can watch a TV at the same time....) -- PJK Msg#:18629 *INK* 05/16/89 23:36:59 From: LEE AHO To: ED NISLEY (Rcvd) Subj: TASM Ed, I have used TASM and am generally pleased with it. In fact, I am going to be ethical and purchase a copy of it. The only thing that bothered me about it was that it did not recognize some of the internal registers and the addressable bit locations. You can make a list of these addresses and names in the beginning of your program with the EQU command, or you can put these in a file and INCLUDE them into your listings. This might be a trivial thing to anybody, but if you screw up a key address (like the TXD bit address), you could spend some time on an insect hunt. Lee Msg#:18642 *INK* 05/17/89 09:43:39 From: ED NISLEY To: LEE AHO (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 18629 (TASM) My heart goes out to assembler writers who try to keep up with the profusion of different chip types! The most recent bug of that sort was a typo I put into my stock header listing all the serial port register offsets. It seems I had a brain spasm while the cursor was on the IIR value and changed it to something else... another day down the drain, because the program _must_ be writing to the right registers 'cause it got the offsets from a file I've used before. So it goes. Msg#:18663 *INK* 05/18/89 01:47:22 From: DANIEL L. MILLER To: ALL Subj: VIDEO SUPPLY SOURCES I need a mail order or inexpensive source for the sony camera / lens and pico housings mentioned in circuit cellar sept oct 88. thank you. Msg#:18730 *INK* 05/20/89 08:30:46 From: DALE NASSAR To: JR WEAVER Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 9573 (HOLOGRAPHY) JR, How is your parallel computer project working out? --Dale Msg#:18734 *INK* 05/20/89 14:40:19 From: DON MERCHANT To: ALL Subj: LCD DISPLAYS I am new at this but am a subscriber to Cicuit Cellar Inc. magazine. I read with interest the project for connecting lcd displays to a parallel port on my computer. I managed to connect it okay and ran the LCDTEST program but I only get the left half of the display to work. I am using a Phillips LTN111R-10 display I purchased from Digi-key. I would like to know how to change the code so as to make this program work with my display. Thanks for any help you can give. Msg#:18778 *INK* 05/22/89 09:53:28 From: ED NISLEY To: DON MERCHANT (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 18734 (LCD DISPLAYS) This will take a little tinkering... The first thing LCDTEST does is write a never-ending stream of characters to the display RAM. If you let it run long enough it should fill the entire RAM and thus every character position on the display... as long as the display controller is set up correctly for the LCD itself. It sounds like you have an LCD with two logical rows laid out as one physical row. LCDTEST defaults to setting the controller up for one row, so the second row (the right half of your display) isn't being scanned. Try running LCDTEST with the switch that selects two logical rows and see what happens: LCDTEST -r:2 You should see that both halves of the line have the same contrast. You should see that both halves of the line have the same contrast. The second half will fill with characters after the first half, with a delay while LCDTEST is writing to the "hidden" display RAM locations. If that fails, give us some more information about the display and we can try some other experiments. Things like how many physical columns and rows, the number of dots in a single row, and the chip IDs off the back will be helpful. I suspect things will work because it's displaying characters now, so we can't be too far off! Msg#:18785 *INK* 05/22/89 15:18:43 From: BOB PADDOCK To: JACK GANSSLE (Rcvd) Subj: RTOS 05/22/89 I believe I've discovered a couple of problems with RTOS ["Writing a Real-Time Operating System" by Jack Ganssle; Jan/Feb and April/May 1989 of Ink]. As RTOS is currently written, if you have a process that calls OS_EXIT, you some times find that this process 'dies' (never to be reincarnated when RSI elapses). What I believe is happening is that the OS_EXIT routine gets Suspended by the context switcher after the process is marked as Ready. I believe the sequence of events go like this: The process jumps to OS_EXIT to give up its time slice, the OS_EXIT routine marks the process as Ready: LD (IX + t_state), ready Now a context switch occurs and Suspends the process (that is the OS_EXIT routine gets Suspended). The context switcher goes on and does its thing with the other process, and every thing is fine until the context routine reactivates the Suspended process. Now what happens is that the context switcher marks the Suspended process as Active and then RETurns to the Suspended process. The context switcher RETurns to AFTER the instruction: LD (IX + t_state), ready {OS_EXIT gets Suspended here} To immediatly execute the instruction: jp cs The effect of this is that the process that should have been marked as Ready, is now marked as Active [the context switcher marks the process that it is about to (re)start as Active], we then jump to the context switcher to activate the next process. We now have more than one process marked as Active (a no no) [We still have only ONE Active process, but we have MORE than one marked as Active]. As far as the context switcher is concerned the Active process, the one that really should be marked as Ready, is concerned the process has cease to exsits and will never be reincarnated. The solution to this problem is to save the t_state value in a new TCB entery called t_istate. The Suspended process restore the value of t_state when it restarts. There is a problem with the way that os_wait is implemented. What happens here is that you jump to os_wait which in turns jumps to cs: cs: saves the stack pointer at t_sp and continues on with implementing a 'wait'. Now if a timer INT occurs before the next process is started, the timer INT also saves the current stack pointer at t_sp (the value of the stack pointer will now be different because of the interrupts pushing the PC, and other registers on to the stack), which will cause the address of the os_wait RETurn instruction to be lost. The solution to this problem is to create an other TCB entery for saving the stack pointer. t_intsp would save the stack during an interrupt. t_sp would save the stack pointer during calls to os_exit and os_wait. When the Waiting process is about to restart it restores its stack pointer from t_sp. Any place that there is a 16 bit value to be written the interrupts should be disabled, so as not to divide the 16 bit write. The interrupts could divide a 16 bit write in such a way as to cause timing inaccuracies. I believe that dec_cnts should only be called during a timer INT; instead of also being called during calls to os_exit and os_wait, to keep a accurate real time time base. The way that find_tsk is currently written will not allow any process with a priority lower than task 0's priority to run (My task 0 is Aztec 'C' code that knows nothing about RTOS [RTOS is handling the back ground stuff like display refreshing, and key board reading].) A possible solution might be to do process 'aging' the way that OS/9 does. Also there are some coding changes that would improve the efficiency of RTOS. For example using: ADD IY,BC in place of: PUSH I Msg#:19002 *INK* 05/28/89 21:32:12 From: BOB MEISTER To: PAUL HARRIS Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 17152 (6809 DATALOGGER) Congratulations!!! I will look into the DS1-DS4 problem on the prototype and original schematics. There has been other mail regarding the E and E* signals but it seems you have discovered the solution already. Our prototype unit worked fine as wired according to the schematic, and we changed it to make it more "correct" and it still worked fine, so maybe our unit was on the verge of erratic operation. Wonder what sort of problems you had that led you to the changing of the RAM/ROM signals? Also let me know if there is something I could do to make compilation any easier. Sometime in May, I gave the sysop some hex files of the compiled programs to be placed here. Hopefully, they made it. Anyway, if there are enhancements that you think might be useful to the program, let me know and I'll see what I can do. Thanks. Bob Meister. Msg#:19141 *INK* 06/01/89 00:35:54 From: KEVIN DAVIS To: GARY LEAR (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 16347 (PALS) Gary, I appreciate the response. I don't get onto the CC BBS very often (as you can see), and I have solved the problem. A friend decoded the PAL code and redesigned the circuitry with more TTL to get rid of the PALs. The board does work, but with limitations. Thanks. Msg#:19554 *INK* 06/13/89 02:00:51 From: GARY LEAR To: KEVIN DAVIS (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 19141 (PALS) You're welcome. --Gary Msg#:19203 *INK* 06/02/89 10:21:14 From: GEORGE NOVACEK To: CURT FRANKLIN (Rcvd) Subj: CANADIAN MAIL IS THERE SOME WAY TO GET YOUR MAGAZINE WITHOUT THE SERVICES OF OUR FAMOUS (OR INFAMOUS) CANADIAN MAIL? I NEVER RECEIVED ISSUE #6 LAST YEAR AND THIS YEAR ONLY #1. YET I WOULD THINK # 3 SHOULD BE JUST ABOUT READY TO SHIP. THANKIS FOR ANY SUGGESTIONS YOU CAN MAKE. Msg#:19247 *INK* 06/05/89 16:32:44 From: CURT FRANKLIN To: GEORGE NOVACEK (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 19203 (CANADIAN MAIL) I wish I new an easy way around your problem, but we only offer postal delivery to subscribers. If you're truly desparate, you could try writing to our publisher (Dan Rodrigues) to ask if he would quote a price for a subscription serviced by Federal Express, but I don't think that the response will be positive. If you'll send me the particulars of your subscription (exact name, address, etc.) I'll try tracking things down from this end. Sorry about the problems, Curt Msg#:19375 *INK* 06/08/89 15:18:13 From: GEORGE NOVACEK To: CURT FRANKLIN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 19247 (CANADIAN MAIL) THANKS, BUT DON'T WORRY ABOUT IT. WE THE CANADIANS ARE LEARNING TO PUT UP WITH THIS NONSENSE. AT ONE POINT I HAD A MAIL BOX IN ALEXANDRIA BAY IN NEW YORK STATE. WORKED GREAT FOR ME, BUT BECAUSE WE HAVE THE BLOODY LAKE ONTARIO BETWEEN US AND THE US, IT TOOK ME 3 HOURS TO DRIVE AROUND AND CROSS OVER THE IVY LEAGUE BRIDGE. WAS WORTH IT DURING POSTAL STRIKES BUT OTHER THAN THAT GOOD ONLY TO BUY CHEAP AMERICAN BOOZE. GEORGE. Msg#:19234 *INK* 06/05/89 01:19:44 From: DAVE CUTCHIN To: ALL USERS Subj: COMPUTER POWER SUPPLIES My laptop has a battery backed power supply which is recharged from house power when it is plugged in. Pulling the plug during a computing session does not affect the computer. I would like to build another power supply of this type for another computing application. Does anybody know where I could get a circuit diagram or where I could buy a laptop-type power supply? Msg#:19258 *INK* 06/05/89 21:39:18 From: TOM SHIKOSKI To: MARK VOORHEES (Rcvd) Subj: WEATHER FAX PRINTER HELP-- I WOULD LIKE TO GET SOME INFO ON ANY CIRCUIT WHICH WILL ALLOW PRINTING OF A WEATHER MAP WHICH HAS BEEN RECEIVED BY A SSB RCVR. I HAVE SEEN A READY MADE PRODUCT WHICH USES THE SIGNALS FROM THE NATIONAL WEATHER SERVICE WHICH HAVE BEEN RECEIVED OVER A SSB RCVR, CONVERTED BY THEIR "BLACK BOX" AND PLOTTED BY A DOT MATRIX PRINTER. I WOULD LIKE TO BUILD THE "BLACK BOX" PART OF THIS UNIT TO BE USED ON A BOAT. IF ANYONE HAS INFO ON THIS DEVICE, PLEASE USE THIS BBS FOR A MESSAGE OR WRITE TOM SHIKOSKI 416 WEST SLEIGHTS RD TRAVERSE CITY, MICH. 49684 Msg#:19398 *INK* 06/09/89 02:47:35 From: MARK VOORHEES To: TOM SHIKOSKI (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 19258 (WEATHER FAX PRINTER) Tom; You might get a copy of the Weather Satellite Handbook by Dr. Ralph Taggart (602 South Jefferson, Mason, MI 48854). He covers several circuits which might serve your needs. Good luck on your project. Mark Voorhees Msg#:19283 *INK* 06/06/89 09:16:04 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: JOE FIELD (Rcvd) Subj: 87XX PROGRAMMER I quote from the second-to-the-last paragraph in the article: "The adapter can also be used with other EPROM programmers to program 8752BHs and 87C252BHs (87C51FAs) by setting the programmer up for 2764As. The other processor types discussed require alterations which we've accomplished through the flexibility of the SEP, and not through the complexity of the hardware for the adapter." Also, the article was written by Jeff Bachiochi, not Steve. Credit where credit is due. (I forwarded your message to Jeff.) Msg#:19293 *INK* 06/06/89 17:12:59 From: JAMES O'SULLIVAN To: CURT FRANKLIN (Rcvd) Subj: SUGGESTION Curt- I have a suggestion for CCINK. Consider a column or series on the engineering process itself. Something like "advice from the oracle." Topics could include: 1) Selecting a CAD system - what features to look for, what "features" to avoid, etc. 2) Using a CAD system - techniques, tips, and tricks. 3) Designing and fabricating a PCB. 4) Selecting various test equipment. 5) Various hardware design topics, i.e. designing a high speed memory system or designing a basic text video display. Such a series would benefit a wide range of readers from beginners to seasoned engineers. -Jim P.S. The article on neural nets was great. I've heard a lot of babbling about neural nets in other periodicals and books, but Chris Ciarcia's article clearly explained how they worked, not just what they could do. Msg#:19330 *INK* 06/07/89 12:56:00 From: CURT FRANKLIN To: JAMES O'SULLIVAN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 19293 (SUGGESTION) Thanks for the suggestions! We're always looking for ways to make Circuit Cellar INK more useful for our readers. We'll look carefully at your suggestions. I appreciate the kind words on the neural network material. Just becaus you're practical doesn't mean that you don't look at state of the art subjects. Curt Franklin Msg#:19337 *INK* 06/07/89 15:26:04 From: ERIC SCHUYLER To: ALL Subj: CCI #9 PROJECT QUESTIONS Can someone answer the following questions for me concerning articles in CCI #9?? 1. The X-10 IR543 Gateway - is it REALLY available and, if so, what does it cost? 2. Is there some way to simply hook up an IR LED to the X-10 ultrasonic remote and use it to train a universal IR remote? Msg#:19362 *INK* 06/08/89 08:46:17 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: ERIC SCHUYLER (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 19337 (CCI #9 PROJECT QUESTIONS) I don't think the IR543 is currently shipping, but should be available shortly. Like I said, it is available directly from X-10, so you should call them to find out about availability. They're not likely to rush it into production unless they see a demand. With the proper drivers, you should be able to use an ultrasonic transmitter with an IR LED to train a trainable remote. The only way to know for sure is to try it, though. Msg#:19403 *INK* 06/09/89 07:58:19 From: ERIC SCHUYLER To: KEN DAVIDSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 19362 (CCI #9 PROJECT QUESTIONS) Thanks, Ken! One question - why does X-10 consistently do that??? Msg#:19408 *INK* 06/09/89 08:47:48 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: ERIC SCHUYLER (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 19403 (CCI #9 PROJECT QUESTIONS) If you mean why do they consistently not have the items that I write about, it's because they are in the business of selling large quantities of modules and controllers. They make their money selling lamp modules and mini controllers, not ones and twos of TW523s or IR543s. They manufacture in the orient and have only so much production capacity, so they have to budget that capacity to build what's going to sell. If they need a run of lamp modules, they're not going to hold up that run to make a batch of TW523s that won't sell nearly as well. If everyone lets them know that certain modules or controllers are in demand, they'll be more likely to have them made. The last time I talked to them (about three weeks ago), they expected TW523s any day with IR543s a bit later than that. Msg#:20034 *INK* 06/22/89 08:10:33 From: ERIC SCHUYLER To: KEN DAVIDSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 19408 (CCI #9 PROJECT QUESTIONS) Thanks - maybe I'll contact them and tell them I'm interested! Msg#:19350 *INK* 06/08/89 02:31:34 From: MIKE WESLEY To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: THANK'S Thank's for putting up this BBS, If I'm leaving this message to Steve- I'd like to say thank's for all you've done for me. I used to buy BYTE just to see your articles, I just scanned the rest of the magazine. Over the years, by reading your articles, I've learned how to design computers and other things. I don't have an EE degree but I can design with the best of them. I learned everything from yours, and other peoples projects. I built alot of them, and then changed them to suit me. Your inderect help has gotten me to the point where I have an AMIGA 500 with a 25 mhz 030, 8 meg or 32 bit ram, various digitizers and drives that I have designed myself. (except for the AMIGA) Maybe I'll put some of my designs on here, but I'm working on getting some of them to the commercial market so they won't be the top of the line designs. Also, inderectly, you have gotten me various jobs repairing computers and electronic equipment. currently I work for Ford Aerospace and things are going well. I'll keep calling back and I have to get a subscription to your new magazine, it looks real good. Well I have about 75 more modems to repair so I have to get going. Thank's again! Mike Wesley Msg#:19380 *INK* 06/08/89 17:01:54 From: STEVE CIARCIA To: MIKE WESLEY (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 19350 (THANK'S) Glad you are happy. Tell someone else about CC INK. --Steve Msg#:19364 *INK* 06/08/89 09:31:38 From: MIKE MCGUIRE To: KEN DAVIDSON (Rcvd) Subj: INFRARED CONTROLLER ARTICLE You note in the CCI #9 article that you could have trained the remote by interfacing a simple IR LED driver circuit to an output bit on a personal computer. I would really like to see this circuit. Could you possibly do a small follow-up in a future issue? I personally am interested in hooking the circuit to a micro- controller (6809 or 8031) to control some devices through their existing infrared remote control instead of through hard-wired relays. A little insight on the software needed to drive the codes would be of great interest also. ----Thanks. Msg#:19369 *INK* 06/08/89 12:06:16 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: MIKE MCGUIRE (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 19364 (INFRARED CONTROLLER ARTICLE) There really isn't any point in putting together a whole article, even a follow-up one, to describe a circuit consisting of a transistor and an IR LED connected to one output bit on a computer. That's all that's required as far as hardware goes to blink the LED. As for the software, it's just a matter of taking the Pascal program and adding some timing code to it. There is an additional factor you have to consider in what you're trying to do. In the article I did, I knew the exact timing and bit patterns of all the codes to be sent. If you're trying to control, say, a VCR, you don't know the codes before you start. Granted, you could sit down with a scope and lots of time and try to decipher what's coming out of the hand-held controller, but that's the hard way. What you need to do is connect an IR input to the computer, let the computer learn the codes in a way similar to the way the trainable remotes do, then use the transistor/LED circuit to send the codes. Steve (and Ed) did exactly that in the March 1987 issue of BYTE. I'd suggest looking up that article. Msg#:19383 *INK* 06/08/89 17:21:02 From: STEVE CIARCIA To: MIKE MCGUIRE (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 19364 (INFRARED CONTROLLER ARTICLE) WE are working on another IO board for the RTC that has an IR transmitter and receiver, serial I/O, timer chip, and X-10 interface. --Steve Msg#:19428 *INK* 06/09/89 17:36:33 From: MIKE MCGUIRE To: KEN DAVIDSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 19369 (INFRARED CONTROLLER ARTICLE) That is pretty much what I thought you would say. I have a schematic of a Radio Shack trainable remote and down line from the controller chip seems straightforward. I guess what I was really after was some insight into the software. However, I'll try to get hold of Steve's BYTE article and utilize it. I look forward to the RTC board Steve mentioned in his reply. Thanks for the reply.--------Mike Msg#:19395 *INK* 06/08/89 22:37:06 From: JAMES P. HICKS To: JEFF BACHIOCHI (Rcvd) Subj: SPACE STUFF At the moment Jeff I am a electronic technician for Lockheed Space Operations Co.. On my side of the house we handle ground support equipment for the shuttle program. Specifically, I am responsible for maintaining a variety of communications equipment. Such as voice, data, satellite. We will be in the process of installing a new operational communications system real soon if the manufacturer delivers on time and so far so good. The new system is node oriented with 512 voice channels not all available to every user (thank God). The comm station itself is a dual user unit and every EI is set up in a permission table as far as what channel they can operate on. The channels up set up in missions, ie, mission A. This system supports mission flow requirments such as various tests involved in the flow of vehicle during its preperation for a flight. As you might guess and awful lot of communications goes on during the preperation for flight. I also am tasked to go overseas to support communications at the TAL sites (Trans-atlantic Abort Landing sites). Any ways I am pretty busy a lot of the time between school and all. Msg#:19423 *INK* 06/09/89 15:53:21 From: JEFF BACHIOCHI To: JAMES P. HICKS (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 19395 (SPACE STUFF) James, Speaking of satellites, you wouldn't happen to know which sat & channel is using now? I watched the first launch after the Challenger disaster by sat but they seem to have moved and I can't find 'em! I enjoy watching the live-feeds and press conferences. Will your TAL visit become permanent? jeff Msg#:19476 *INK* 06/11/89 19:26:04 From: HANK HANKINS To: JEFF BACHIOCHI (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 19423 (SPACE STUFF) From USENET: Beginning Tuesday, June 13, at noon EDT, a selection from the previous week's images of Neptune from the Voyager 2 spacecraft will be broadcast on the NASA Select TV system, Satcom F2R, transponder 13, every Tuesday through Aug. 8. The timetable for NASA Select replay of Voyager 2 images, along with the distance remaining to Neptune and the distance from Earth, is given below. Date Neptune Distance Earth Distance June 13 70.70 million miles 2.65 billion miles June 20 64.40 million miles 2.65 billion miles June 27 59.00 million miles 2.66 billion miles *July 4 53.73 million miles 2.66 billion miles July 11 48.30 million miles 2.664 billion miles July 18 42.88 million miles 2.67 billion miles July 25 37.45 million miles 2.678 billion miles August 1 32.03 million miles 2.686 billion miles August 8 26.60 million miles 2.696 billion miles *(This date may move later in the week due to holiday observance.) Msg#:19495 *INK* 06/12/89 08:30:45 From: JEFF BACHIOCHI To: HANK HANKINS (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 19476 (SPACE STUFF) Hank, A thousands thanks! By the way, in TREK 5 the Klingons play shootin' gallery with the remains of Voyager. How dare they?!? jeff Msg#:19683 *INK* 06/15/89 04:52:00 From: JAMES P. HICKS To: JEFF BACHIOCHI (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 19423 (SPACE STUFF) I dont know which sat and channel NASA is using, but I will inquire. And no, my TAL visits are not permanent thank goodness. I agree, watching the press feeds and listening to the NASA select audio is a lot of fun. There is a HAM operator here locally who has a FCC waiver to re-broadcast the NASA select video and audio. I have a pocket scanner which has one channel set for his repeater frequency and I listen to the mission audio throughout the entire mission. It really is a great service. Msg#:19684 *INK* 06/15/89 04:54:54 From: JAMES P. HICKS To: JEFF BACHIOCHI (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 19495 (SPACE STUFF) There you go Jeff, I guess I dont have to ask now. Thanks Hank. Msg#:19691 *INK* 06/15/89 08:59:21 From: JEFF BACHIOCHI To: JAMES P. HICKS (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 19683 (SPACE STUFF) James, F2 CH13 has movie promos on it! Is this channel being sub-let? jeff Msg#:19791 *INK* 06/16/89 23:55:54 From: DAVID LAWSON To: JEFF BACHIOCHI (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 19691 (SPACE STUFF) the sat is F2R at 60 deg w long. i think there are two satcom F2 birds, F2 and F2R... dave Msg#:19396 *INK* 06/09/89 01:14:12 From: CHRIS E. BAILEY To: JEFF BACHIOCHI (Rcvd) Subj: DS2015/DS9050 INVNET Steve, I called Dallas Semiconductor today to try to find the parts for the Invisible Network in Issue 9 of CCINK. The told me that they are no longer selling the parts to distributors. They ARE still producing them, but they are selling them to a company called West Associates. Dallas Semi. told me to talk to a guy by the name of Paul Clark. I called and they told me he would call me back, but he didn't. I'll have to call the guy again tomorrow. The story seems to be that West Associates is trying to write a software package for the DS9050 as a LAN or something. The phone number is (214) 680-2800. If you or Jeff Bachiochi know of any easier or cheaper way to get hold of the parts,please let me know. Thanks, Chris E. Bailey Msg#:19568 *INK* 06/13/89 08:24:53 From: JEFF BACHIOCHI To: CHRIS E. BAILEY (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 19396 (DS2015/DS9050 INVNET) Chris, I've been in contact with both DALLAS and Softworks. Paul is working with DALLAS on some kind of deal. Softworks has written code for distribution of a network including the DS9050 (DS2015) hardware. I will be passing on additional info as soon as it is available. Stay tuned! jeff Msg#:19680 *INK* 06/15/89 00:55:38 From: CHRIS E. BAILEY To: JEFF BACHIOCHI (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 19568 (DS2015/DS9050 INVNET) Jeff, I finally found out what the story was on the DS9050. Dallas Semiconductor farmed out the stuff to West Associates for a rewrite on the software. West Associates in turn farmed the stuff out to Quill office products. I was unable to find a DS9050 only without all of the software to go with it. Quill, by the way DOES sell the DS9050 in a package for $159.79 as their part number 205-DS-9050. Their phone number is (312) 634-4850. I was able to find the DS2015 and the DS1256 from a distributor of Dallas Semiconductor. The DS2015 sells for $7.75 and the DS1256 sells for $29.00 each in a quantity of 1-24. The two places that I did find them at had a $50.00 and a $100.00 minimum order. To get the name and address of the distributors near you, I called Jim Waldon of Dallas Semiconductor at (214) 450-5322. I hope this helps anyone that has been looking for them. Chris Bailey Msg#:19681 *INK* 06/15/89 01:03:14 From: CHRIS E. BAILEY To: JEFF BACHIOCHI (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 19568 (DS2015/DS9050 INVNET) Jeff, See my previous message on the availability of the Ds9050/ds2015 /ds1256. It looks like the only really practical way for us hardware hackers to go is to buy the individual pieces and build it. The only thing is, the schematic printed in the CCINK issue doesn't have the values for the zener diodes. Could you tell me what the values/ part numbers for them are? They are D1-D5 in the prints. That way, all I have to do then is to come up with thS 2015 chip and start soldering. Thanks, Chris E. Bailey Msg#:19690 *INK* 06/15/89 08:56:48 From: JEFF BACHIOCHI To: CHRIS E. BAILEY (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 19681 (DS2015/DS9050 INVNET) Chris, The diodes are not marked with any distinguishing characters. By the schematic, it looks like these diodes should be germanium. The function seems to be that of power stealing! The DS2015 stays live thanks to the battery, but can be externally powered by any system that holds RST high. Each of the four inputs can supply power to the 2015 and inverters but the internal battery can only power the 2015. jeff Msg#:19854 *INK* 06/18/89 20:43:52 From: CHRIS E. BAILEY To: JEFF BACHIOCHI (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 19690 (DS2015/DS9050 INVNET) Jeff, I know that they have to be for a pe-bias or some sort of threshold for the input or maybe some sort of protection. Have you also noticed that D3 is also drawn in backwards? If you have one of these, are the diodes marked on them? If not, what voltage is dropped across them? If I can find out, I can go ahead and order the parts and begin the construction. I already have the board routed for etching, but wanted to hold off burning it into copper utill I found out what all the sizes of the leads, and spacing needs to be. If you have any ideas or guesses, let me know. Chris Msg#:19878 *INK* 06/19/89 09:05:46 From: JEFF BACHIOCHI To: CHRIS E. BAILEY (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 19854 (DS2015/DS9050 INVNET) Chris, D3 is not drawn backwards. This allows external reset circuitry to power the DS2015 but prevent the internal battery from powering anything more than the '2015. Use a DO-35 package size. jeff Msg#:19429 *INK* 06/09/89 17:41:26 From: JOE NOVOSEL To: ALL Subj: X10 PL513 I am trying to interface a PL-513 module to a TANDY 1000EX computer. It seems that no matter what I do, I can't get it to receive SYNC signals. Has anyone have any luck in making this combination work? If so, please leave me a message and tell me what you did. Thanks, Joe Novosel Msg#:19430 *INK* 06/09/89 18:12:21 From: TOM MORAN To: CURT FRANKLIN (Rcvd) Subj: CEBUS I was surprised to get the June/July 1989 issue and find no article on CEBus - especially since there is an ad for it on the back! If this is really going to replace X10, I'd sure like to find out more about it. Msg#:19505 *INK* 06/12/89 09:25:21 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: TOM MORAN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 19430 (CEBUS) Why were you expecting to see an article on CEBus in the June/July issue? Editorial content is independent of ad content, so there is no correlation between the AISI ad and any articles. The theme of the August/September issue is The Electronic House and there will be copious CEBus coverage (trust me; I'm writing it...). Msg#:19508 *INK* 06/12/89 10:08:24 From: CURT FRANKLIN To: TOM MORAN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 19430 (CEBUS) Ken is, of course, correct. You can also see an AISI ad on the back of the April/May issue. If they continue to get good response from Circuit Cellar INK readers, you may see AISI ads from now on. Advertisers are, by and large, much more concerned about *who* reads a magazine than about *what* they are reading in the pages. Issue #10 will have the first published accounts of what it's like to work with CEBus development kits. As CEBus and other building automation plans move closer to reality, Circuit Cellar INK will be among the leaders in bringing information to those who develop automation products and services. Curt Franklin Msg#:19623 *INK* 06/14/89 00:41:28 From: TOM MORAN To: KEN DAVIDSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 19505 (CEBUS) I thought there had been some mention of upcoming CEBus material - perhaps in the 'late breaking news' rather than 'in depth tutorial' form. I just mentioned the ad because it indicated something about lead times. So far, all I've read about CEBus has been newspaper type articles that totally fail to mention that X10 ever existed but do mention that all the big companies are behind CEBus. If X10 is dead, I hardly want to develop with it, and I hardly want to sit on my hands doing nothing while waiting for more CEBus info. I look forward to your forthcoming article(s). Msg#:19642 *INK* 06/14/89 08:51:17 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: TOM MORAN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 19623 (CEBUS) There had been some discussion about having a brief CEBus overview in issue 9 in preparation for issue 10, but the planned author submitted it way late and did a poor job, so it was dropped. I thought most of that discussion was in-house, but I guess some leaked onto the BBS. X-10 will still be around for a few more years while the economies of scale get the cost of CEBus modules down. Once that happens, though, I can see them being totally blown out of the water. The CEBus committee has tried to include X-10 company members in discussions, but with little response. They're going to be sorry for their short-sightedness. Msg#:19449 *INK* 06/10/89 15:25:57 From: DONALD STEPHENS To: KEN DAVIDSON (Rcvd) Subj: X-10 ARTICLE Ken: After reading your article in this CCInk I was wondering if you could advise me how to rig up a X-10 module to control an A/V system via IR. I want to turn the thing on and off and perhaps control the volume using an EL-1400. Your article explained how control modules w/ an programmable IR remote control but I wish do the opposite...Is that possible? I'm not well versed in electronics, but if you can give me a clue where to start I'd like to try to build an controller. Thanks: Don Msg#:19516 *INK* 06/12/89 13:24:23 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: DONALD STEPHENS (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 19449 (X-10 ARTICLE) What you ask is a completely different issue from that covered in the article in the magazine. See the discussion starting with message #19364 in this message area for more details. You'll want to look at the Master Controller article in the March 1987 issue of BYTE. Msg#:19487 *INK* 06/12/89 07:32:17 From: KELLY JORDAN To: SYSOP (Rcvd) Subj: SCSI INFO I need to get a copy of the articles where Steve covered "Adding SCSI to the SB180 Computer" in the May/June 86 issues of Byte. Also, where can I get a hold of the NCR Corporation manual "Standard Products Data Book"? What is a good source for the NCR 5380 SCSI chip? Any help much apprecitaed. Be back in a few days for replies. 73, Kelly Jordan VE3OTK Msg#:19504 *INK* 06/12/89 09:17:04 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: KELLY JORDAN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 19487 (SCSI INFO) Volume six of "Ciarcia's Circuit Cellar" contains a reprint of the SCSI articles. Call Micromint or CCI to order the book. As for an NCR data book, try contacting NCR. I don't have a good source of 5380 chips. Both Logic Devices and Samsung make direct replacements if that's any help. Msg#:19534 *INK* 06/12/89 16:52:49 From: STEVE CIARCIA To: KELLY JORDAN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 19487 (SCSI INFO) Micromint sells the SCSI chip, I believe. --Steve Msg#:19843 *INK* 06/18/89 08:10:21 From: KELLY JORDAN To: KEN DAVIDSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 19504 (SCSI INFO) Ken,Thanks for the reply. I'll have to give CCI a call this week. Now, youwouldn't have NCR's full address, would you?73, Kelly Jordan VE3OTK Msg#:19883 *INK* 06/19/89 09:25:40 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: KELLY JORDAN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 19843 (SCSI INFO) NCR Microelectronics Division 1635 Aeroplaza Drive Logic Products Marketing Colorado Springs, CO 80916 (303) 596-5612 Msg#:19499 *INK* 06/12/89 08:57:54 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: STEVE BLAIR (Rcvd) Subj: INK ADDRESS Sorry, but we can't handle address changes on the BBS. Give Rose a call at (203) 875-2199 and ask her to take care of it. Msg#:19507 *INK* 06/12/89 10:07:20 From: BOB PADDOCK To: JACK GANSSLE (Rcvd) Subj: PARALLEL CRC Here is a simple 'C' function that calculates SDLC-CCITT-CRC 'in parallel' which lends it self well to transliterating to other languages or machine code. Do you think it could be "PLDed"? -------------- /* SDLCCRC:Update the CRC using a Bytewise calculation, with the CCITT polynomial of 1021H. Entery: byte to be CRCed Exit: crcval updated ( initilize crcval to -1 before first use ) */ #ifndef MAGICN #define MAGICN 0xf0b8 /* Magic Number for error check */ #endif extern unsigned short crcval; /* Global crc value */ unsigned short sdlccrc( crcbyte, crcval ) unsigned char crcbyte; unsigned short crcval; { register unsigned char t,u,ut; t = (crcval ^ crcbyte) & 0xff; u = ( (t>>4) ^ t ) & 0x0f; ut = (t & 0x0f) | (u<<4); crcval = (crcval & ~0xff) | ( (ut<<3) ^ ( (crcval>>8) & 0xff ) ^ u ); crcval = (crcval & 0xff) | ( ( (u>>1) ^ ut ) << 8 ); return( crcval ); }/* sdlccrc */ -------------- According to Tanenbaum in "Computer Networks" the accuracy of SDLC-CCITT-CRC "... will guarantee detection of all single and double bit errors, all errors with an odd number of error bits, all burst errors of length 16 or less, 99.9969% of all 17-bit error bursts, and 99.9984% of all possible longer error bursts." Msg#:20031 *INK* 06/22/89 07:45:44 From: JACK GANSSLE To: BOB PADDOCK (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 19507 (PARALLEL CRC) The C function looks great but it unfortunately does not lend itself to being "PLDed". The shift operations are difficult to implement in a PLD in the manner shown, and worse, without a tremendously complex PLD they cannot be done in a single clock cycle, one of my goals in the algorithm shown in the article. It's useful to simulate PLD equations with C code, as I showed, but you must be careful to draw the distinction between software-like operations (with loops or looping constucts, including shifts), and hardware. The algorithm you sent looks good; I'll definitely add it to my collection! regards, Jack Msg#:20032 *INK* 06/22/89 07:49:54 From: BOB PADDOCK To: JACK GANSSLE Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 20031 (PARALLEL CRC) That is what I suppected, thanks. Msg#:19541 *INK* 06/12/89 21:33:06 From: ALEXANDER SCHNEIDER To: SCOTT FARLEY (Rcvd) Subj: WHY NEURON? I have read your article several times, and while it is a very good primer for somebody wishing to write simple neural network simulators, I was wondering why you chose a neural approach for the application to described. The example data you provide shows greatly different outputs for single bit differences from the tought data, dependent on bit position, but without obvious pattern. It seems to me that a quick, simply executed comparison using a standard test such as mean standard error (I believe that's the term) would provide an accurate and just as useful difference signal without the ambiguities of defining initially random weights and letting it get by with an acceptance factor of .8. Msg#:19666 *INK* 06/14/89 20:51:38 From: DALE REID To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 17374 (DAYTON MATERIALS) Steve ... long time, no modem. Sorry to get back so slowly. My burning question is.... did you get ANY response from the goodies you sent me? I am basically enthusiastic, and found some good reception, and somd indifferent. (But isn't it always so?) I sincerely hope the faith you showed in my interest wasn't a bum steer. I did get a good response from the guys at the satellite reception group. Also, interestingly enough, I did find two piles of the four color brochures at other locations that mine about the displays! Somewhere the word is getting out. Was there a peak in subscriptions right after Dayton? (grin) dale Msg#:19703 *INK* 06/15/89 10:50:24 From: STEVE CIARCIA To: DALE REID (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 19666 (DAYTON MATERIALS) Because we changed fulfilment houses and did a 200,000 piece mailing at the same time you went to Dayton the results are a little muddled. The cards are supposedly keyed so we can loook on the next report in 2 weeks. Ask me again then. Circulation is still climbing but summer is a bad time to do promotions. Thanks for spreading the word. --Steve Msg#:19747 *INK* 06/16/89 12:09:38 From: DAVID BRYANT To: ALL Subj: INVISIBLE NET FILES? Greetings, I am interested in setting up an "invisible net" as described in the June/July issue of CCI. The article says that the software is available here on the BBS, but I havn't been able to find it. I would also like to keep in touch with anyone else who is interested in setting up this sort of network. Any help in locating the files and/or other users would be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance. -=[DB]=- CI$ #: 72617,1070 Msg#:19748 *INK* 06/16/89 12:36:11 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: DAVID BRYANT Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 19747 (INVISIBLE NET FILES?) The files are located with the rest of the INK files. Goto the iles section, select ownload, then area 1. It is in the list with the rest of the files for issue #9. Couldn't be easier. Msg#:19850 *INK* 06/18/89 12:19:35 From: MARK BALCH To: SCOTT FARLEY (Rcvd) Subj: MORE NEURAL NET INFO Hi, I am a high school student in New York City and have been researching the area of Neural Networks for the past year or so whenever I had the opportunity. I learned alot of general concepts and started work on an "intelligent" pattern learning algorithm but haven't yet tested it. Your article in INK was excellent and has helped me understand how the neurons can teach themselves instead of being programmed (the way I was doing). I've got a pretty good foundation and the BASIC code that you uploaded was also alot of help because it let me see the rules in action and provided code for examination. Thanks! Do you know of any sources of information that I could turn to to learn about more complex learning methods? I am specifically interested in learning about a model similar to that one that you designed but that is capable of being re-trained so that it can learn with experience the way people do. The information that I've found so far on my own has pretty much been above my level because it assumes a certain level of experience in the field. Do you know of any "middle ground" that I could use to gain speed? Thanks again for writing the article, it helped me tremendously and I am sure that others feel the same way. Bye...Mark Msg#:19957 *INK* 06/20/89 16:12:11 From: CHRIS BEACHY To: ALL Subj: SWAPING LPT1 AND LPT2 Howdy, I have just uploaded a file called LPT.ARC. it contains a compact version fo the answer yoy provided to Ramon Gonzales Barroeta in issue #9. The COM file is all of 100 bytes long and was created in assembly language for the smallest possible executable file. Chris Msg#:20030 *INK* 06/22/89 05:54:24 From: DALE NASSAR To: CHRIS BEACHY Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 19957 (SWAPING LPT1 AND LPT2) Chris, Where do I look for the file you uploaded to the BBS? I can't seem to find any uploaded files I am looking for. Thanks, Dale Msg#:20040 *INK* 06/22/89 09:15:24 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: DALE NASSAR (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 20030 (SWAPING LPT1 AND LPT2) It takes a few days for new uploads to make to a public area. Be a little patient. Msg#:20089 *INK* 06/23/89 20:50:34 From: SCOTT FARLEY To: ALEXANDER SCHNEIDER (Rcvd) Subj: USE OF NEURON Please forgive my lateness in responding, I broke my ankle last weekend, and that slowew me down. Your response is appreciated, I have wondered how people would react to the article. The article was written to teach, and apparently it has. The ADALINE, after training, is averaging inputs much like mean standard error. I see both as being very similar. It seems to me that the ADALINE is more useful in generating the values used for comparison, through its training process. It provides the deviation in output values which match different amounts of mismatch. Remember, the training processs only needs to be run through once, for non-varying data like the header bytes. This could be done as part of the bootstrap, or in a seperate computer in the design phase, as the article suggests. In a way this example is a bit too simplified, with no real hint of what networks can do. The other article was supposed to cover this, but it was very abstract. I kept it simple to allow the "how" to come through. Thanks again for your interest. Any further thoughts would be appreciated. Msg#:20102 *INK* 06/24/89 16:40:02 From: ALEXANDER SCHNEIDER To: SCOTT FARLEY (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 20089 (USE OF NEURON) I just thought that using a "standard" comparison like mean standard error would give you the same output for equivalent numbers of missed bytes. Letting the neuron pass the training with a acceptance of .80 leaves some big questions when the program receives an error signal from the neuron. Perhaps even just counting the number of missed bits would provide a definitive answer to the program, rather than a more abstract one dependant on bit position due to the initially random weights. Msg#:20098 *INK* 06/24/89 14:49:15 From: JAMES HARRISON To: DUSTIN CLAMPITT (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 17805 (A QUESTION OF INK) Try the 65/9028 VT terminal board from Digital Research Computers in Texas. I am using this board as the main terminal for my Z80 system and it works quite well. It has 10 terminal emulations, uses standard RS232 interfacing, can use either a 7 bit serial keyboard or a PC type keyboard (depends on the ROM used) and supports 18 KHZ monitors with a crystal and crtc change. Battery operation would be a snap. They can be contacted by phone at: (214) 225-2309 Or by mail at: PO box 381450 Duncanville, Tx 75138 Support has been very good from them, and upgrades are only the cost of a new ROM. 6502 source code for the terminal monitor ROM is also available on disk. later, James PS.. Does anyone here remember the Servo-8 Z80 "little board" computer? That is what I am using and it still works fine Msg#:20118 *INK* 06/25/89 09:34:52 From: JOHN KAPITZKY To: ANYONE Subj: RTCIO CLOCK OPTION I'm programming an rtc31/rtcio system in plm/51 and have had problems reliably reading the clock on the io expansion board. In order to get valid date/time info, I have to re-read the block of 16 addresses up to 40 times. I've tried both of the suggested methods ( read and re-read, as well as set the hold bit and then read) but get similar results. I've finally come up with a routine that works, but it requires so many re-tries that I suspect I am doing something wrong (or else that there is a problem with the board). Has anyone else had any experience/problems reading/writing the clock ? As a side-note, in trying to debug the clock problem I wanted to use an Intel ICE51 system at work. But with the rtcio board on top of the rtc31 board this was impossible. So I bought a pair of jmper cables to run the 2 boards separated. BUT ... the plug on one end of one cable wouldn't fit onto the rtc31 2 by 13 expansion header. I borrowed one of the 2 by 13 headers from the prototyping board kit, and that works out fine. However, I need to find a source for a couple of these 2 by 13 headers so that I can go ahead and build up the prototyping board. I looked in Digikey, Mouser, and Active catalogs and didn't see what I needed. Does anybody know where I can get these headers. I am using the rtc31/rtcio as part of a home control system, being able to call it up via modem and set lights over an X10 interface I built for the rtc31. It has an lcd j{g~?~?~?~?~ display for staus info. Thanks for whatever help you can give me. Msg#:20243 *INK* 06/28/89 14:28:48 From: STEVE CIARCIA To: JOHN KAPITZKY (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 20118 (RTCIO CLOCK OPTION) Micromint sells the separate expansion headers for $5 each, I believe. There may be a minimum order if not COD. --Steve Msg#:20129 *INK* 06/25/89 22:46:00 From: ROBERT WALKER To: KEN DAVIDSON (Rcvd) Subj: X10 SYSTEM Dear Ken, are you involved with X10 just as a product reviewer, or do you have closer contacts with them? If yes, here is an idea you may want to forward to them: In many commercial and some residential installations, control of lighting and other loads is accomplished with GE "low voltage control" type RR7 and RR8 relays. These are bistable mechanisms, with separate on and off coils, capable of switching 20A/120-277V loads. They can be controlled from multiple remote locations by momentary switches, wired directly to the relays. Feedback to user is by miniature lamps in switches, activated by an auxiliary contact in the relay. In brief, the control of the relays requires a .5s minimum momentary contact closure to supply voltage (24Vac half-wave rectified) for the appropriate coil (on or off). Status sensing is via auxiliary contact to supply common. It seems that it would be very useful to be able to apply system X10 to the "low voltage control system", especially to upgrade existing installations. X10 timing modules, particularly their RS232 Computer Interface, would allow to schedule the power loads (lighting, heaters, fans, water pumps, etc.), while still retaining the current features of these systems (overriding switching from multiple locations with operator feedback). A while back, I have built such X10-GE interface, cannibalizing the guts of (then) BSR-Sears appliance modules, adding some one-shots, optocouplers and sensing relays. It works pretty well for me. but obviously it is a hacker's toy and not a commercial product. You may want to forward this to the X10 people, maybe they would be interested in developing a similar product. I am sure they would have a reasonable market for this. I very often see need for something like this in my own electrical contracting work, as we do install GE systems to control heavy loads and loads that require control from switches mounted on hallway walls (as normal switches). We frequently supplement this with X10 lighting control for "scenery" control or timing schedule and miss the capability to control the GE loads from the X10 timers. Regards, Robert P.S. Just have seen sysop message about building automation. Sounds interesting. What are you guys planning? Msg#:20137 *INK* 06/26/89 08:45:36 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: ROBERT WALKER (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 20129 (X10 SYSTEM) I am on the engineering staff and am managing editor of Circuit Cellar INK, and most certainly *don't* do reviews. The X-10 articles I've done are to introduce readers to the new modules and controllers, describe how they work, and show how to do something useful with them. I'm not attempting to rate whether or not they are a good buy. X-10 has a momentary contact module in the works, but its status is still uncertain. They were just about to go to production, then redesigned it for a smaller package, then went back to the larger size, and the uncertainty continues. You might contact them directly (they advertise in Circuit Cellar INK) with any ideas you have for new modules. I'm not at liberty to discuss any building automation plans, but we are looking for authors involved professionally with home automation and, preferably, CEBus. Msg#:20250 *INK* 06/28/89 20:15:51 From: TOM CARTER To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: DDT-51 I am ready to buy everything I need to get started in using microcontrollers. I would like you to leave me a list of what is available from Circuit Cellar. Thank you very much. Tom Carter Msg#:20274 *INK* 06/29/89 09:00:23 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: TOM CARTER (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 20250 (DDT-51) If you leave me your address, I'll send you catalogs. It's a bit unreasonable to list everything in a message here. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Msg#:20366 *INK* 07/01/89 21:47:07 From: SCOTT FARLEY To: MARK BALCH (Rcvd) Subj: INFORMATION SOURCES mark, it is good to see some one learning from the article on the ADALINE. My two best sources of information on robotics is the Issac Asimof robot story series, an an unknown book called " Robots on your doorstep", by Winkless/Browing . I think it can still be had from Robotics press, 30 N. W. 23rd. Place, Portland, OR 97210. If you can't get it, let me know. Tab books has had a number of robot books over the years, the Heiserman Robot series, The "Handbook of robotics", which is simplistic, and their latest, "Experments in artifical neural networks. You are right, that most literature on this area is pretty thick. The program required about 13 tries before I had basic functionality in the neuron simulation. Msg#:20368 *INK* 07/01/89 22:16:43 From: MARK BALCH To: SCOTT FARLEY (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 20366 (INFORMATION SOURCES) Thanks. From what you told me, it seems that Robotics books cover alot about Neural Nets and AI. I never even thought to look there. How did you get enough information to read into the "thick" books and create the delta formula, etc... in an easy to understand way? BTW, I implemented ADALINE in Turbo Pascal 5.0 last week and it seems to work like yours did but it has a slightly different feel and I changed it a bit. Bye...Mark Msg#:20398 *INK* 07/03/89 03:49:29 From: GARY LEAR To: SCOTT FARLEY (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 20366 (INFORMATION SOURCES) Scott, just an opinion, but I think the Tab robotics books stink. As an example; Heiserman did an analysis to determine how much power he needed to run his robot. He naturally used Newton's F = ma. He claimed that the robot needed so much power that you couldn't get it to run for anywhere near a day from a car battery. If he had paid more attention to his basic physics (he used gravitational acceleration instead of the robots acceleration in his equation!) he might have noticed how many AMPS all of his NMOS and LSTTL circuitry was drawing. His books are full of similiar insights. Doesn't amybody proofread this stuff anymore? BTW, nice article. --Gary Msg#:20593 *INK* 07/08/89 21:34:53 From: SCOTT FARLEY To: MARK BALCH (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 20368 (INFORMATION SOURCES) my primary guide in writing the program was an article in a magazine, AI Expert. It was written by Maureen Caldwell, and covered the basics of the ADALINE, and networks. Like most of the literature out there, it was broad brush, and not specific. For example it discussed "summation " of the inputs, when averaging was actually necessary for it to work. Pattern matching will be part of the solution to the mobile robot "get lost" problem, or autonomous robot problem. This is one reason that the robot crowd is heavily into neurons, the other is smart sensors, such as a smart eyeball, or sonar system. Glad your program works, I tried to include every little detail in the article. Msg#:20594 *INK* 07/08/89 21:42:11 From: SCOTT FARLEY To: GARY LEAR Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 20398 (INFORMATION SOURCES) I first read the first heiserman book many years ago, and found it simulating, on an overall basis. I never tried to duplicate his stuff, rather I designed mine from scratch. Discussions with people who did try to duplicate his design indicated that there were many typos in the early copies of the book. Glad you liked the article. Msg#:20425 *INK* 07/04/89 02:11:40 From: MARC DIAZ To: ED NISLEY (Rcvd) Subj: FLOATING POINT ARTICLE Ed, What a coincedence ! I just started exploring this Floating point stuff when I recieved the last issue of CCI. I am programming in Archimedes C ( 8051 ) and was in the process of contemplating how to write a function that would convert a Floating Point variable into a string. Your article did not mention anything about converting from FP to ASCII string. Do you have any tips you can give me on this subject ? Actually, I am hopiing that you or someone out there might have written something similar to ecvt or fcvt. These guys take a FP variable and convert them to an ASCII string. Msg#:20499 *INK* 07/06/89 10:11:03 From: ED NISLEY To: MARC DIAZ (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 20425 (FLOATING POINT ARTICLE) Well, the reason I didn't mention going the other way was that I managed to avoid doing it in the Mandelbrot code... by letting the C library routines handle it! I think you've already figured out most of the grubbiness: the fractional part gives you the digits in the answer, the exponent gives you the "times ten" scale factor, and the sign gives you the sign (wow!). If you're working with a restricted range of numbers you can probably use the exponent to convert the fraction into a fixed-point representation and convert it to ASCII from there. If I recall correctly, PC Magazine ran a series on this sort of thing a while back, but they may have skipped over floating point numbers because there's no simple way to do it that doesn't fill far too many pages. Thumb through a few back issues and see if you can turn something up... all my files are still in boxes ready for the move on Monday! Msg#:20520 *INK* 07/07/89 00:01:39 From: MARC DIAZ To: ED NISLEY (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 20499 (FLOATING POINT ARTICLE) I'll look through my issues. Fortunately I've got them all sorted on a shelf at home. If there is no way of fudging it, I guess I have to revert to writting it myself. I'm so lazy !!! Thanx for the info. Msg#:20533 *INK* 07/07/89 09:01:47 From: ED NISLEY To: MARC DIAZ (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 20520 (FLOATING POINT ARTICLE) I've taken to running the issues through the band saw, discarding the ads, and filing what's left in a cabinet so I can find it again. We've run out of shelf space for the books three times in ten years, so one of the first Home Shop projects (after getting the shop set up, of course!) will be a matching set of floor-to-ceiling shelves for my office, the basement hall, the living room, and the middle bedroom (pronounced library). _Then_ we can unpack the books, magazines, and kotchkes. An interesting figure of merit for a magazine is the ratio of saved pages to discards. When you go through a whole issue and can't find more than one or two articles worth filing, it's time to drop the subscription... and that has happened to a remarkable number of computer mags lately! Msg#:20819 *INK* 07/14/89 01:57:23 From: MARC DIAZ To: ED NISLEY (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 20533 (FLOATING POINT ARTICLE) Roger Dodger !! I know what you mean. I am in the process of doing the same. Since I ran out of space here at the house, I am starting to shuffle books and magazines to the office. I found several other articles on the subject of Floating point math in other magazines ( Byte, PC Tech Journal and a couple of others...including CC INK of course ). Now that I am thorougly confused, I think I will start writing the C function to convert a float to a string. This function will be of great use for applications that use alpha-numeric displays such as LCD display modules where the application requires displaying a float. Which C compiler are you using ? ( for 8051 ? ) I am using the Archimedes compiler. I am going to have to call Archimedes up on a problem I am having with the sqrt() function. It seems to get hung up in my program. Msg#:20904 *INK* 07/17/89 09:43:50 From: ED NISLEY To: MARC DIAZ (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 20819 (FLOATING POINT ARTICLE) Fact of the matter is that I'm not using any C compiler at all! One of these days I'm going to have to make the leap into high level languages on low level controllers, but that day hasn't arrived yet... and, so far, assembler hasn't been too restrictive for the sorts of things I usually wind up doing with 8031s. But soon... Msg#:21136 *INK* 07/25/89 01:01:15 From: MARC DIAZ To: ED NISLEY (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 20904 (FLOATING POINT ARTICLE) I have done a lot of 8048 and 8051 assembly programming in the past. But, just recently, I have been coding in C. For those who might be wanting to leap into a C compiler for 8051 or 6809, etc, a review by CCI may be in order one of these days. I may never again program in assembly after programming in C. Although there are still situations where I may have to mix some assembly with C. Thanks for your input on the subject of floating point math. Msg#:21152 *INK* 07/25/89 09:01:05 From: ED NISLEY To: MARC DIAZ (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 21136 (FLOATING POINT ARTICLE) Hmm... want to be a reviewer? Send Curt a message and see if you can work something out. I'd trust someone who's been working with a compiler for a while and who's willing to point out the ugly spots. I doubt that we'll be doing massive comparative reviews, but there's always something new under the sun! Msg#:20434 *INK* 07/04/89 11:54:48 From: RON DESGROSEILLIERS To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: MAGAZINE Hello Steve, Just wanted to tell you how glad I am to have decided to subscribe to your magazine. It's what I've been searching for! Do you have any plans to go to a 12 month subscription? Your editorial in issue #9 hit home. I had begun to believe that if I didn't start concentrating of software design only, I'd be back with the dinosaurs. But after reading your comments, I feel better about continuing to work on integrating software as an addition to hardware as needed. Thanks! Until later, take care! Ron DesGroseilliers, Jr. Msg#:20552 *INK* 07/07/89 14:33:47 From: STEVE CIARCIA To: RON DESGROSEILLIERS (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 20434 (MAGAZINE) One has to learn to walk before running. Going from 6 issues/year to 12 is a very expensive matter and easily doubles the staff. As a consolation, we are going to 8 issues/year starting in January (6 regular subscription and 2 special topic issues). So yes, you'll see more INKs, but not 12 yet. --Steve Msg#:21068 *INK* 07/22/89 19:11:58 From: RON DESGROSEILLIERS To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 20552 (MAGAZINE) Hi Steve, Thanks for the reply. I'll look forward to reading your upcoming issues!!! Take care! Ron Msg#:20473 *INK* 07/05/89 14:06:37 From: FOSTER SCHUCKER To: ALL Subj: RTC CASES If you are looking for a small case for a single board RTC-31 or RTC-51 try a 3.5" disk box. I have boxes from Immac that cost about a dollar and are the correct size. I drilled holes for access to the screw terminal connections, added a jack for power and the RS-232 connector. If you are careful when you cut, the case will snap shut and hold the board. You might need to pad it if you have a different box maker. Msg#:20481 *INK* 07/05/89 20:53:27 From: LEE THALBLUM To: JEFF BACHIOCHI (Rcvd) Subj: 87XX PROGRAMMER I'm trying to find a schematic of an 8751/2/c51/etc programming adapter, similar to the one advertised by Logical Systems Corp. I saw your article in the June/July CCI and I wondered if you had any ideas for a stand alone (i.e. standard eprom programmer) model. I really can't see spending $125 for something that would obviously cost much less to put together yourself. If you have any ideas along this line I'd appreciate them. Thanx Msg#:20498 *INK* 07/06/89 10:07:11 From: JEFF BACHIOCHI To: LEE THALBLUM (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 20481 (87XX PROGRAMMER) Lee, Whereas the parts for a stand alone programmer would not cost but a mear.. say.. $50.00, the time to design and build one could bring the cost up to $100.00! I realize that if your time is free you could eliminate half that. There are many ways to achieve that goal (buying vs building). I don't have an original design for the stand alone programmer module you are looking for and can not give out schematics which legally belong to other companies trying to make a living. If there is enough racket created for something like this, I will do an update in the future. For now, if you need to do 8751's and don't have a SEP, study the programming description in the Intel data book and have at it! jeff Msg#:20565 *INK* 07/07/89 22:47:24 From: HANK HANKINS To: LEE THALBLUM Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 20481 (87XX PROGRAMMER) You might take a look at one of Steve's earlier serial eprom programmer articles ("Build a Serial EPROM Programmer" BYTE February 1985). This was a simple serial eprom programmer that only used 13 ICs. AY3-1015 UART, LS175, 3 * LS374, LS00, LS14, NE555, LS02, 1488, 1489, LS04, and 74HC4040. I don't think it would be too hard to modify it to program 87xx instead of 2716-27128. It looks like Jeff's CCINK article has all the info you would need to modify it. - Hank Msg#:20488 *INK* 07/05/89 23:06:34 From: JOHN KOHANSKI To: CURT FRANKLIN (Rcvd) Subj: GREAT JOURNAL Dear Mr. Ciarcia, I am just a lowly computer science student who always wanted to know how the computer could be interfaced with outside devices. I was always unable to find a book that described just how this done in a language that i could understand. When I saw Circuit Cellar Ink in a rack at my local computer store i could not beleive what I saw. I found exactly what I was looking for. Thank you for publishing such a fine product. Sincerly, John A. Kohanski Msg#:20618 *INK* 07/09/89 13:20:38 From: STEVE SAMPSON To: KEN DAVIDSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 12256 (CONTEST) Who was the winner, and what was the design? Just curious... Msg#:20657 *INK* 07/10/89 12:31:34 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: STEVE SAMPSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 20618 (CONTEST) I probably should make you wait until the next issue is on the stands to find out (another 2-3 weeks), but the winning project is called the Mitee Mouse III and is a maze-running robot. Other winners include an LED name badge, a computer-controlled pipe organ, and a DRAM tester. The next issue has a picture and a brief description of each project. All of the winners have been contacted and most have agreed to do full articles for future issues, so you'll eventually be able to see the details. Msg#:20669 *INK* 07/10/89 19:12:24 From: STEVE SAMPSON To: KEN DAVIDSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 20657 (CONTEST) Thanks for not keeping me waiting :-) Sounds pretty neat. I'm transfering overseas so will have to renew my subscription when I get there to see the results. Msg#:20629 *INK* 07/09/89 21:40:19 From: DALE NASSAR To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: STEPPER MOTOR ARTICLE Steve, I am working on a project in which the stepper motor article in INK #4 will be of great help. The device is to stir a soil sample in a bottle with a magnetic pill, and the setup is very similar to the 90 degree step apparatus of Fig. 4 in INK. However I have the opposite coils wired in parallel rather than in series. I am using a bipolar switching scheme and my question is this: Wouldn't the protection circuit using the diodes (schematic 1 in the article) be more complete if 4 additional diodes were used each being connected from the anode of the existing 4 to ground (anode to ground of course)? It seems to me that this would protect the circuit from overvoltage of either polarity. Also would there be any problem using 24 VDC with the components shown in your schematic if the current is all within allowed limits of the transistors? --Dale Msg#:20659 *INK* 07/10/89 14:45:06 From: RICK OBER To: KEN DAVIDSON (Rcvd) Subj: X-10 CONTROLLER Is there any way to convert the MC460 controller per your CCI article? Also, in the connect time section, you state that weather "vane" sensors for speed and direction are easy to find - from who please? Msg#:20694 *INK* 07/11/89 08:53:11 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: RICK OBER (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 20659 (X-10 CONTROLLER) The MC460 mini controller uses a different controller chip that doesn't have the serial input, so it can't be used as an IR gateway. Maxi controllers that use the chip are still being manufactured, so you're not out in the cold. One source of wind speed and direction sensors (and the primary reason for my statement) is Heathkit. I've also seen them in various surplus catalogs from time to time. Msg#:20833 *INK* 07/14/89 12:20:43 From: RICK OBER To: KEN DAVIDSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 20694 (X-10 CONTROLLER) Have you heard of anyone purchasing the weather mechanical parts from Heath or are they getting the complete weather station and not using the electronics? Also, Radio Shack does not sell the controller for X-10 as noted in your article. Does it have to be purchased directly from Powerhouse? THanks for the info. Msg#:21097 *INK* 07/24/89 10:42:16 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: RICK OBER (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 20833 (X-10 CONTROLLER) I don't know about purchasing the sensors separately. You used to be able to. I haven't been following Heath's marketing lately, though. I don't believe I even mention Radio Shack in the IR controller article. I do mention, however, that the mini controller that could be modified had been replaced by one that couldn't. Some Radio Shacks do have the older mini controllers, but most have the newer ones. You might be able to get one of the older ones directly from X-10. The maxi controller that can be modified is still in production and can be bought from X-10. Radio Shack's big controller looks different from X-10's, so I can't guarantee it can be modified, but I'd be willing to bet it's using the same controller chip. Msg#:21423 *INK* 07/31/89 08:38:31 From: RICK OBER To: KEN DAVIDSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 21097 (X-10 CONTROLLER) Thanks, I'll check them out. Msg#:20670 *INK* 07/10/89 20:42:23 From: JAY WITHERSPOON To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: SWITCHING POWER SUPPLIES In your article in the april/may issue on power supplies you started with the 12 volts coming into the power supply. This left two open items: where did the 12 volts come from and will you produce a kit for the powere supply? For the first question, if I just get a gel cell battery with charger and hook it up, won't the battery slowly loose power since the charger is having to charge the battery and supply the power supply? I would like a small solution that will fit in an alarm controller box. How difficult would a switch over box be to build so I could have a simple 12 volt power supply feeding your supply and a battery with a charger that would be used it power went out. A circuit card of the power supply in your article would be great!!!! Msg#:20707 *INK* 07/11/89 14:36:21 From: STEVE CIARCIA To: JAY WITHERSPOON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 20670 (SWITCHING POWER SUPPLIES) There is no kit for my switching power supply and I don't think you'd like the price anyway :-) If you only need 12 volts and nothing else you can do it with trickle charged NiCd batteries easier than anything else. Use a battery charger to power what ever it is that you intend (13-14V output probably) and then put a 12V NiCd pack with series blocking diode (only conducts when the charger is off) across the same contacts. To trickle charge the batteries, choose a resistor that allows some nominal current flow into the batteries (perhaps 50 MA) and solder it across the diode. Voila, 12 volt battery back up! My supply was complicated because it produced +5, +12, and -12V from a 12V (actually 9V-16V) input. --Steve Msg#:20722 *INK* 07/11/89 23:37:35 From: JAY WITHERSPOON To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 20707 (SWITCHING POWER SUPPLIES) Thank you for the fast reply!! Actually I needed the 3 voltages since I have the BCC52. The first application I could think of was a smart programable alarm system. The problem is that I needed the 3 voltages with battery backup and preferred a small power package so that it could fit in an alarm box. Seemed like a 12 volt gel cell with trickle charger leading into your 3 voltage switching power supply would fit the bill perfectly. Any suggestions about 3 voltage, small package, battery backup?! An alarm is not very valuable if you can throw the switch on it from outside! Thanks again. Msg#:20790 *INK* 07/13/89 09:20:04 From: STEVE CIARCIA To: JAY WITHERSPOON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 20722 (SWITCHING POWER SUPPLIES) Forgive the sound of my response, but if you have to ask the question you shouldn't be trying to design switching power supplies. Most of their successful operation depends on experience and knowledge rather than just building from a schematic. Instead, I'd start looking in the surplus rags or at the local Radio Shack for a supply that will do. Some time in the past RS offered a 3-voltage switching supply (made for the TI computer) that ran from 12-18V for $5. I'm sure you can find others. --Steve Msg#:20730 *INK* 07/12/89 01:57:33 From: LANCE D. BEAZLEY To: ED NISLEY (Rcvd) Subj: IMAGEWISE/PC Ed, Im not sure who to direct this question to, but since you're the author... You've got it. I've just finished assembling an Imagewise/PC kit and have been playing for the last couple of hours. Its great. Everything boardwise checks out. Unfortunately, however, the camera I'm using appears to be an exception to the rule. I fall under paragraph 5, Appendix D. page 19 of the Imagewise/PC Technical manual, Rev 1.0. I've got a rolling bar thru the image approx. every 8.0 seconds. ie. 1/2 a line off. I phoned in as the text suggests but didn't connect with someone who could give me an answer at the time so... Can the routines that set the visible lines count be tweaked to accommodate fractional parts of lines or is it time to replace the camera. The camera by the way is a Hitachi Denshi Model KP-120U. The timing diags. in the OEM manual looked to be compatible with NTSC format but the Rep says the camera's video output adheres to the RS-330 standard. I couldn't find RS-330 in print anywhere and am still waiting on EIA's 6 week turn around on orders. Any ideas??? Thankyou, Lance Beazley (408) 432-1102 ext.495 CA. Msg#:20750 *INK* 07/12/89 12:51:12 From: ED NISLEY To: LANCE D. BEAZLEY (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 20730 (IMAGEWISE/PC) Ugh! The firmware counts the number of syncs in two successive fields to figure out which one is which. I think RS-330 has the same number of syncs in both (in contrast to "standard" video which has one more in the first field), and the code handles that just fine for a camera that doesn't produce quite correct NTSC video that we've got around here. Of course, that simply means I haven't covered all the cases! What's the firmware version number that shows up on the top line of the screen when you're running SETIMWPC? That'll give me a clue as to whether you've got a set of tweaks I made to handle some PAL oddities; you probably don't have them, so maybe there is hope! Over the past week I've changed houses, so things are a shambles in the computer shack right now. I can clearly see the system in the corner, but it is, like Gaul, in many parts divided! Msg#:20776 *INK* 07/13/89 02:08:13 From: LANCE D. BEAZLEY To: ED NISLEY (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 20750 (IMAGEWISE/PC) Thanks Ed. The SETIMWPC firmware version is 1.0. I'll take the camera in to work tomarrow, put it on a scope and count the sync pulses in each field. After playing quite a bit, I've found that the NTSC configuration is the best with only the EXT. visible line count changed. 231 is too many and 230 is not enough. If I mess with much else things just get worse. Msg#:20779 *INK* 07/13/89 03:54:34 From: DALE NASSAR To: JACK GANSSLE Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 20031 (PARALLEL CRC) Jack, I am very intrested in your article on CRC's (INK # 9). I would like to learn some basics of the CRC and also the PLD. Could you reference some introductry material on these subjects. Thanks --Dale Msg#:20806 *INK* 07/13/89 18:36:22 From: DUANE MURPHY To: ALL USERS Subj: IBM PC/AT BUS CARD DESIGN Help Me! I am having an incredibly hard time finding any information on the specification for the AT bus. Most information I do find refers to the IBM PC/AT Technical Reference Manual. I can't believe that someone else has not written a book or an article on this subject. I have a design for a board but I need the spec to make sure all the timing is right. I've checked all the book stores but they all have hundreds of books about software, but nothing about hardware. I expect that there are previous articles in BYTE or maybe even CCI, but I need to know which ones. This project is pretty important and is starting torun against a time constraint unless I can find this spec! I'm an accomplished hardware and software engineer so technical content is no problem. Any help at all will be appreciated. Thank you. -- Duane Murphy Msg#:20905 *INK* 07/17/89 09:49:51 From: ED NISLEY To: DUANE MURPHY (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 20806 (IBM PC/AT BUS CARD DESIGN) This question comes up time and again around here, and the answer is just as discouraging every time... there isn't any spec for the AT bus beyond what you've already discovered! That's why early clones had such trouble with bus speed compatibility -- the "whatever worked" designs were very sensitive to bus speeds and tended to give out above 8 MHz, which _wasn't_ that much faster than the Official 6 MHz that IBM started with. Wish I had a good source for you, but I haven't heard of any. That's not to say none exists, and I'm quite willing to learn something new... anybody out there hear of anything recently? Msg#:20810 *INK* 07/13/89 21:28:13 From: GORDON VANDENBURG To: JEFF BACHIOCHI (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 20328 (RS-485 INTERFACE) Thanks for the info. I really lucked out on that one. I'm presently using p1.1 to toggle my RS-485. Is it true that while using rs-232 to debug the RS-485 software that I should have to remove the 75176? Gordie Msg#:20830 *INK* 07/14/89 09:09:46 From: JEFF BACHIOCHI To: GORDON VANDENBURG (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 20810 (RS-485 INTERFACE) Gordon, If nothing is connected to the RS-485 the termination can be enabled to prevent the 485 receiver from false triggering. Even though it is not recommended that 2 TTL outputs be tied together (1-from the RS-485 and 1-from the MAX232), the console RS232 will work with the 75176 installed. Removing one or the other is recommended and will reduce current consumption! jeff Msg#:20949 *INK* 07/18/89 16:00:22 From: RANDALL ROUTH To: JEFF BACHIOCHI (Rcvd) Subj: INVISIBLE NET I FULLY ENJOYED YOUR ARTICAL ON THE INVISIBLE NET BUT THERE WAS ONE SMALL ERROR IS SPOTTED IN FIGURE 4. D3 WAS DRAWN BACKWARDS. OTHER THAN THAT I AM LOOKING FOWARD TO TRYING OUT THIS FORM OF LAN. THANK YOU RANDALL Msg#:20970 *INK* 07/19/89 08:55:24 From: JEFF BACHIOCHI To: RANDALL ROUTH (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 20949 (INVISIBLE NET) Randall, Ah! Sharp eyes. You are indeed correct, D3, like D1, D2 & D4 should have its cathode toward VCC2! You may be interested to know that DALLAS has sold the rights to the DS9050 to WEST Associates whom in turn is passing it on to SOFTWORKS whom in turn is bundling their own software with it and selling to QUILL CORP. QUILL has it listing for 199.95 on sale for 148.88. The software is not available separately. DALLAS still sells the DS2015 through distribution! One last note, neither WEST, SOFTWORKS, nor QUILL was willing to have their software reviewed and compared to the code that DALLAS wrote! What does that tell you! jeff Msg#:20951 *INK* 07/18/89 19:43:25 From: MATTHEW J. MABERINO To: JEFF BACHIOCHI (Rcvd) Subj: 87XX PROG. ADAPTER Jeff, I'm interested in programming an 8751, but don't have the SEP. What I do have is a Heathkit eprom burner. Obviously, the hardware can be made, but what worries me is the programming changes to the SEP and what they do. Can the Heathkit burner programmer use your invention to program 8751's or did I get burned? Msg#:20971 *INK* 07/19/89 09:33:01 From: JEFF BACHIOCHI To: MATTHEW J. MABERINO (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 20951 (87XX PROG. ADAPTER) Matthew, The SEP allows a bit of flexability in its ability to have some parameters reprogrammed through the software. To use the 87XX programming adapter for 8751s these changes were made by software: 4k address space VCC applied to ZIF pin 28 PGM routed to ZIF pin 27 *CE routed to ZIF pin 20 Use 21v for programming Use a logic low programming pulse I doubt that HEATH will allow these changes but remember it was probably designed for the specific task of EPROMs and if it does that well, you should have no complaints. jeff Msg#:20981 *INK* 07/19/89 19:32:53 From: MATTHEW J. MABERINO To: JEFF BACHIOCHI (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 20971 (87XX PROG. ADAPTER) This is great!!!!!!!!!!!!! I can put these changes on your little vector board, and program the little buggers!!!!!!!!!!!! I dunno if you've been following my task, but I'm fighting my way through building a thermostat for my grand father who has glacoma, and I believe this has solve the last hurdle - fitting a micro, a/d, display driver, and 6 nice and big 7 segment displays onto a relatively small box that will resemble a thermostat, not mission control. Thanks everyone for your help. Matt Msg#:21094 *INK* 07/24/89 00:52:14 From: CHRIS E. BAILEY To: JEFF BACHIOCHI (Rcvd) Subj: INVNET Jeff, A while back you said something about maybe getting a deal on the DS9050 module. Has there been anything else about it? If so could you please leave me a message about what you found out. I don't really want to have to buy the full finished product as a IBM lan setup as QUILL sells them, but I don't really want to have to make it up from scratch either. Is there any other way to get the stuff? Chris E. Bailey Msg#:21109 *INK* 07/24/89 11:03:40 From: JEFF BACHIOCHI To: CHRIS E. BAILEY (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 21094 (INVNET) Chris, As it stands now, the DS9050 can only be built by you or bought from QUILL. I have no way of knowing if the DS9050 with its new bundled software at $199 is a rip-off or not! Even on sale for $144 this sounds a bit high! jeff Msg#:21096 *INK* 07/24/89 08:01:19 From: LUC DE MEYER To: ALL Subj: ELECTRONICS CONSUMER BUS INFO REQUEST. A while back some mail floated around about this ECB. To avoid re-inventing the wheel I would like to know more about this. 1.- how simple (if so) is the hardware... 2.- what can it do... 3.- where do I get info... 4.- does anyone have experience with it (good or bad) or is there a better alternative. Any of the above information is most welcome. Thanks in advance. Luc De Meyer (Heerlen, The Netherlands) Msg#:21116 *INK* 07/24/89 11:23:15 From: STEVE CIARCIA To: LUC DE MEYER (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 21096 (ELECTRONICS CONSUMER BUS INFO REQU) The next issue (#10) of CC INK is all about CEBUS. Stay tuned it will be out in 2-3 weeks. --Steve Msg#:21124 *INK* 07/24/89 13:28:43 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: LUC DE MEYER (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 21096 (ELECTRONICS CONSUMER BUS INFO REQUE) The next issue of Circuit Cellar INK has the theme "The Electronic House" and has an extensive article detailing the Consumer Electronics Bus (CEBus) being developed by EIA. As Steve said, the issue should be out within two weeks or so. Msg#:21167 *INK* 07/25/89 14:29:54 From: JIM EREAUX To: ALL Subj: NTSC I seem to remember reading a flyer which mentioned building an NTSC converter for output of RGB to standard video. Can anyone help? Thanks, == Jim Ereaux == Msg#:21170 *INK* 07/25/89 14:39:04 From: STEVE CIARCIA To: JIM EREAUX Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 21167 (NTSC) Perhaps you mean CC INK issues #1 and #2 which had a RGB to NTSC converter project by Mark Voorhees? --Steve Msg#:21365 *INK* 07/28/89 18:09:47 From: JEFF BOLY To: JEFF BACHIOCHI (Rcvd) Subj: INVNET Jeff I have read the invisible net article in Circuit Cellar Ink and I am quite interested. My problem is that I want to run this network as far as five hundred feet. Will TTL outputs drive this? I don't know for sure but I would appreciate any info. I would like to connect three computers that are 200 or more feet apart. Thanks, Jeff Boly Msg#:21424 *INK* 07/31/89 08:59:10 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: JEFF BOLY (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 21365 (INVNET) Don't try running TTL more than a few inches or you're in for trouble. That's what we have RS-232, RS-422, RS-485, and line drivers for. I'd recommend setting up an RS-485 network if you want to go several hundred feet and attach several computers. Check out INKnet in the latest issues of Circuit Cellar INK for an example. Msg#:21535 *INK* 08/02/89 01:29:43 From: FRANK KUECHMANN To: JEFF BOLY (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 21365 (INVNET) You can sometimes get away with driving maybe 10-12 feet with TTL buffers in uses like parallel printer interfaces -- 74LS374 is a commonly used circuit. For several hundred feet you can forget regular TTL. There are some 75XXX-series line drivers that will handle that kind of distance, though. Msg#:21711 *INK* 08/07/89 10:53:00 From: JEFF BACHIOCHI To: JEFF BOLY (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 21365 (INVNET) Jeff, One of the advantages of the Invisible Net was the self supporting CMOS DS2015. No power supply needed! The claim here is 50 feet maximum between any two terminal devices. As KEN suggested RS-4xx is a better way to fly over longer distances! jeff Msg#:21461 *INK* 07/31/89 18:38:36 From: JOSEPH D GRADECKI To: ALL Subj: 8042? Gentlemen, I have recently came across a microcontroller called the 8042? Is this chip related to any of the current controllers from Intel. I looked in the embedded controller handbook and did not find it however I did see the 804X series. Is it an old chip? joe Msg#:21566 *INK* 08/03/89 03:37:24 From: FRANK KUECHMANN To: JOSEPH D GRADECKI (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 21461 (8042?) If I remember correctly, the 8042 is used in the keyboard interface circuit of the IBM PC/AT and true clones. You might look at hardware references for the AT to learn something. That's all I know; there's nothing on the chip in any of my Intel data books. Msg#:21581 *INK* 08/03/89 13:58:37 From: ED NISLEY To: JOSEPH D GRADECKI (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 21461 (8042?) Because the 8042 (which is a custom version of the 8048, I think) has the program in ROM, it's pretty much ornamental for any other purpose. While I think you can use it with external memory, you may as well blow five bucks and get an 8031... it's got a much better instruction set and is a whole lot more usable. The AT uses an 8042 for a keyboard controller, but what your chip does is up for grabs. Msg#:21604 *INK* 08/04/89 00:06:48 From: JOSEPH D GRADECKI To: FRANK KUECHMANN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 21566 (8042?) I was curious because one of my professor is putting the Hero 2000 together and he said the chips were 8042. I said I recalled seeing the number but I really saw the 8048. Thanks for the information. joe Msg#:21547 *INK* 08/02/89 10:05:36 From: BRIAN JOSEPH To: KEVIN RUSSELL (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 18109 (RTC11) Thanks for the info. The DS5000 looks like the right stuff! Brian. Msg#:21642 *INK* 08/04/89 20:36:22 From: MATTHEW J. MABERINO To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: AUG-SEPT INK Steve, dunno how much longer i can hold out . it's 8-4-89 and my issue of the new ink hasn't come yet. please, please i need it, i gotta have it. I'm gonna go crazy -ohgujm0prmfj 0phbjmmtgpjmkhbp;jkm!!!!!!!\ Msg#:21704 *INK* 08/07/89 09:20:45 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: MATTHEW J. MABERINO (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 21642 (AUG-SEPT INK) Then talk to your local post office. The issue was mailed out late last week, so you should be getting it in the next few days. We're right on schedule. Msg#:22180 *INK* 08/19/89 22:12:52 From: MATTHEW J. MABERINO To: KEN DAVIDSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 21704 (AUG-SEPT INK) I finally got it!!! Thought i was gonna die for a while.. Msg#:21664 *INK* 08/05/89 12:08:25 From: RICHARD WHITE To: CURT FRANKLIN (Rcvd) Subj: SUBSCRIPTION I SUBSCRIBED TO INKE 3 MONTHS AGO; THE CHECK CLEARED, BUT NO MAGAZINE. WHAT GIVES ? Msg#:21707 *INK* 08/07/89 10:10:27 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: RICHARD WHITE Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 21664 (SUBSCRIPTION) Give our mailing house a call and find out what your status is. They should be able to get things fixed. They are called Grenier and can be reached at (914) 628-0885. Thanks. Msg#:21732 *INK* 08/07/89 17:23:07 From: RANDALL ROUTH To: JEFF BACHIOCHI (Rcvd) Subj: 87XX PROGRAMMING ADAPTER I read with gread interest your artical on the 87xx adapter and I was wondering if the adapter will work with the 8748/8749 type of microcontrolers and if not can it be modified to do so. I would also think that there would need to be changes made to the SEP code as well. Msg#:21751 *INK* 08/08/89 08:53:52 From: JEFF BACHIOCHI To: RANDALL ROUTH (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 21732 (87XX PROGRAMMING ADAPTER) Randall, The 874x micros 1k ('48) and 2k ('49) are of an earlier breed than the '5x ('3x) series. Programming is a bit more involved. Two programming voltages are necessary (reminds me of the early RAMs needing +12, +5 and -5 volts). 21 volts is necessary for VDD on pin 26. 18 volts is necessary on PROG pin 25 and EA pin 7. A 1-11 Mhz crystal must be used to clock the micro. EA brought up to 18v enables the programming. T0 is used to select program (GND) or read (VCC) mode. *RESET rising latches in the lower multiplexed address bits and the upper address bits. The data bits are now programmed by raising VDD to 21v and then pulsing the PROG to 18V for 50 ms and lowering VDD. jeff Msg#:21796 *INK* 08/09/89 12:25:14 From: ED NISLEY To: RANDALL ROUTH (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 21732 (87XX PROGRAMMING ADAPTER) And so the bottom line is, "no, that adapter doesn't work for those micros" (at least without some heavy tinkering). Basically, unless you got a really spectacular deal on those things, junk 'em and go with something easier to use! Msg#:21803 *INK* 08/09/89 14:16:13 From: BOB PADDOCK To: RANDALL ROUTH (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 21732 (87XX PROGRAMMING ADAPTER) Send me a SASE and I'll send you almost, but not quite, what you are looking for (You need parrallel ports insted of an adapter). Bob Paddock %Matric Limited Box 167A RD#1 Summit Dr. Franklin PA 16323 Msg#:21840 *INK* 08/10/89 17:26:20 From: RANDALL ROUTH To: BOB PADDOCK (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 21803 (87XX PROGRAMMING ADAPTER) Thank you Bob I will send you a letter in the next couple of days. Msg#:22047 *INK* 08/16/89 11:18:20 From: PAUL KINDELL To: ED NISLEY (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 21796 (87XX PROGRAMMING ADAPTER) ED. I disagree completely with your suggestion to junk the 8748's. The 8748 is perfect for smaller projects where using the 8751 would be overkill. The biggest reason I suppose to use an 8748 is the price. In Jameco's 89 catalog an 8748 goes for $7.95 where the 8751 is $39.95! Alot of us out here are not engineers and struggle to pay for our hobby and cannot afford to throw money at a project just because its more convenient. I have trusted Steve and the Circuit Cellar to provide low cost solutions to nagging problems and I this seems to be a problem for many. (I have seen Bob Paddock kindly offer an S100 based circuit and basic program to many people) I believe also the 8755 should be included in this as its programmed much in the same way and would be very useful to any 8031 projects as well. Keep the cellar humming! Paul Msg#:22100 *INK* 08/17/89 14:36:40 From: ED NISLEY To: PAUL KINDELL (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 22047 (87XX PROGRAMMING ADAPTER) Well, maybe. The question is whether it's worthwhile to pour a lot of time and effort into getting started with a few cheap chips that just happened to fall into your junk box... or to pour a lot of time and effort into getting started with some not quite so cheap chips that are easier to work with and have better support all around. I put a much higher weight on "time and effort" than on the hardware costs simply because the hardware costs are usually such a small part of the finished project for one-off gizmos. If you're doing something for mass production, on the other hand, you want low cost parts because the design charges get amortized over a much bigger base. For home tinkers and folks who aren't doing it for a living, the "time and effort" part of the equation is essentially free... so you're absolutely right about using whatever you've got on hand or can get for the bottom dollar. On the other hand, if you wind up spending a few hundred bucks for development software and other hardware, the price of a few chips of either flavor doesn't make a lot of difference (remember to include the boards, sockets, and all that jazz in the total, too!). A friend of mine scrapped out a basement full of stuff that he'd been saving "to build a computer" at some undefined date. He finally bought a PC because he realized that, although it was more expensive, he could get on with the really interesting stuff (for him) and skip the tedious hardware tinkering. It all depends on where you draw the tradeoff line... and that depends on where you are. Sorry if I sounded dogmatic... Msg#:22276 *INK* 08/21/89 16:04:59 From: PAUL KINDELL To: ED NISLEY (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 22100 (87XX PROGRAMMING ADAPTER) I think I am speaking for the home tinkers in hoping that you continue to address issues for us as well as the person trying to start or is already in business. I am on a budget but, I like small projects on the cheap side that have a good use in my shack. I personally build repeater controllers, smart alarms, wx sensors, ect, but any tool to help me is important too. (DDT-51, Eprom Programmers, ect) I hope the projects in CCI don't get so large and expensive that no one can afford to build them, but are useful, practical and in a reasonable price range. Alot of these ideas are reflected in the contest winners. I do learn alot from the projects that I am not interested in or cant build but nothing beats the satisfaction of completing a working and useful project............ Paul Msg#:22318 *INK* 08/22/89 10:23:38 From: CURT FRANKLIN To: PAUL KINDELL (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 22276 (87XX PROGRAMMING ADAPTER) I'm going to jump in here -- We try to keep a balance of project types and sizes in Circuit Cellar INK. We have featured (and will continue to feature) relatively simple designs such as the RTC controllers, but we will also have articles to help our readers stretch their capabilities and dream a bit. For example, Circuit Cellar INK #11 will have two large construction articles; an 80386SX AT-type computer, and the H-16, a 16/32 bit single-board computer for the BCC bus. In coming months we are also planning to present the design for a 68000-based multitasking computer. Keeping a balance is one of the most difficult parts of putting Circuit Cellar INK together, but it's also what lets us keep readers happy. Thanks for letting us know what you think is important for the magazine. Curtis Franklin Editor in Chief Msg#:22333 *INK* 08/22/89 14:19:36 From: BOB PADDOCK To: ED NISLEY (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 21796 (87XX PROGRAMMING ADAPTER) Some one asked about a 8748/49 equivalent to the DDT-51, but I can't find that message right now; so I'll leave the message to you in the hopes they see it. Such a thing is discribed in Intel's "Microcontroller Applications Handbook 1982 "A High-Speed Emulator for Intel MCS-48 Microcomputers" Complete with schematics and listings... Msg#:22335 *INK* 08/22/89 15:46:54 From: PAUL KINDELL To: CURT FRANKLIN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 22318 (87XX PROGRAMMING ADAPTER) Thankyou for listening! Paul Msg#:22368 *INK* 08/23/89 11:51:59 From: ED NISLEY To: PAUL KINDELL (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 22276 (87XX PROGRAMMING ADAPTER) Fair enough. Curt may chime in on this (I haven't read the replies yet), but there is always a tension between the very simple projects and the "gee whizzers" that really get your attention. Resolving that tension is not at all simple, particularly given the fact that most projects seem to involve hardware, software, and firmware. For example, microcontrollers make a lot of sense for most projects because you can replace a lot of wiring with (a lot of) programming. The schematic diagram for those projects is deceptively simple, because all of the logic is in the code. Is it a simple project if it has one 8751, a few other gates, and 5000 lines of interrupt-driven firmware spread over ten source modules? Probably not! For years I had a cartoon taped to my wall that diagrammed a low-end science fair project. A capsule summary: "I turn on the faucet and... WATER COMES OUT! Watch, I'll do it again... see, IT'S REPEATABLE!" The point we forget is that there's a whole lot of technology behind that faucet making it all work -- does the project concentrate on the faucet or the waterworks? I've been trying to move the Firmware Furnace column toward some moderately simple, self-contained projects that trade off hardware for firmware... but it takes more time than you'd believe to pull together one of those "simple" projects, so there are not as many as I'd like. We'll keep trying -- and you keep us on track! Msg#:21739 *INK* 08/07/89 21:10:05 From: DOUG BUHRMAN To: ALL Subj: SATELLITE TRACKING I read Mark Dahmke's article (Tracking Soviet TV Satellites) in the Aug/Sept issue of CCINK with great interest. I have been monitoring telemetry and communications from the AMSAT/OSCAR 13 satellite which is also in a Molniya orbit. Mark did not mention the name of the satellite but it might be listed in the NASA orbital prediction file on the AMSAT BBS (314-447-3003). I use a program called Quiktrak 4.0 which does an excellent job of showing the location in either a tabular form or in graphics. The graphics is in real time. The Quicktrak program also has capability to be interfaced to an Az-el rotor system and aid you in aiming at the satellites! I hope this info is helpful to someone. Doug Buhrman WB0QIY Msg#:21811 *INK* 08/10/89 00:08:44 From: LEOPOLD A LEE To: SCOTT FARLEY Subj: ADALINE I am a college student and I am very interested in learning about Neural Networks. I found your article "ADALINE" very interesting and informative, it has given me a foundation to build on. But I am kind of lost in understanding how the final implementation works; the ADALINE stimulated by the computer program that you wrote (which I have tested) has to run on a computer so how is it then stimulated in the robot which did not have much computing power. (and can this be stimulated with hardware) I will be looking forward to your answer ( I hope my question isn't far off base). Thank you. Msg#:21903 *INK* 08/11/89 23:13:04 From: GREGORY MAJEWSKI To: JACK GANSSLE Subj: AUG/SEPT 89 ARTICLE I enjoy your article on data smoothing. I would like to find a reference on the how the values in the differential table, figure 4. Figure 3, I recognized that a least squares polynomial fit was used to determined the weighing values. For example, the 5 point values are for parabolic fit. This method of smoothing is describe in Schaum Outline on Numerical Analysis by F. Scheid on pages 243 and 244. However, the values for differentiation in figure 4 are different from the values of the method of Scheid. I would like to learn how the values of figure 4 were determined, the method may help me with a problem in work. Thank you. Msg#:21983 *INK* 08/14/89 13:16:08 From: CURT FRANKLIN To: GREGORY MAJEWSKI (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 21903 (AUG/SEPT 89 ARTICLE) Jack doesn't get to log on to this board very often. Why don't you take this question and put it into a letter to him c/o Circuit Cellar INK. I'll make sure that it gets to Jack, and I'm confident that he'll reply. Who knows, maybe you'll even see your letter in Reader's INK! Curt Franklin Msg#:22343 *INK* 08/22/89 21:14:15 From: GREGORY MAJEWSKI To: CURT FRANKLIN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 21983 (AUG/SEPT 89 ARTICLE) Thank you for the message. I'm going to try the letter. Msg#:21914 *INK* 08/12/89 07:33:44 From: STEVE VREELAND To: TOM CANTRELL Subj: SOFT/HARDWARE Tom,The concept of soft/hardware in ram based gate arrays has notescaped others of us out here. While pursuing this track six months ago,I spoke with Xilinx about the gate location coding. Their position on the subject was that it was proprietary information and could not be published or distributed to anyone. He gave two reasons, one was the fact that the information would defeat the security of other peoples designs. Apparently their security bit is not terribly secure. The other reason was only insinuated, Xilinx sells the development tools to users at $15,000.00 per copy. As long as only Xilinx knows the codes then only Xilinx will sell the tools, the difficulty of determining the codes for this numberof product terms prevents reverse engineering.Another pal design software company has just announced theirdesign support for the Xilinx product. They had to get their informationfrom Xilinx. Maybe I just didn't ask right. If you or anyone else know asource of this information, I have some great designs that could use the technology.Steve Vreeland Msg#:22020 *INK* 08/15/89 17:34:50 From: ROBERT PARENTON To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 7596 (LASER WRITING) TO: STEVE CIARCIA FR: ROBERT PARENTON SUBJ: LASER WRITING YOU MIGHT WANT TO USE TWO SPEAKERS WITH MIRRORS GLUE TO THE CENTER OF EACH CONES. ONE SPEAKER IS SET FOR X AND THE OTHER IS Y. BY PULSING THE SPEAKERS FOR X AND Y ONE IS ABLE TO PRINT HIS OR HERS NAME ON THE WALL. THIS HAS BEEN DONE ON MY OLD APPLE II+ AND WORKS WELL. Msg#:22035 *INK* 08/16/89 08:40:41 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: ROBERT PARENTON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 22020 (LASER WRITING) We had an extensive discussion about this here several months ago and determined that for any kind of serious laser writing (more than just lissajous patterns set to music), high-quality linear galvanometers are necessary. You might search old messages to see if the thread is still on-line. Msg#:22037 *INK* 08/16/89 09:51:25 From: STEVE CIARCIA To: ROBERT PARENTON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 22020 (LASER WRITING) If you had good results with speaker cones you are alone. We've tried many things and galvos seem to be the only way. --Steve Msg#:22056 *INK* 08/16/89 15:05:32 From: ROBERT PARENTON To: KEN DAVIDSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 22035 (LASER WRITING) THE LASER PRINTING THAT IS DONE WITH THE APPLE II+ IS DRAWING A PREPROGRAMMED NAME ARE TITLE ON THE WALL. THIS HAS BEEN TESTED BUT I HAVE NOT TRY IT WITH MUSIC. THE CIRCUIT USES TWO SPEAKERS WITH A BALLAST RESISTOR ON EACH - SIDE OF BOTH SPEAKERS. AND CODING IS IN ASSEMBLY LANGAUGE(please excuse my english syntax) FOR DETAIL WRITING. THE MIRROR ARE HARD TO SET UP BUT WHEN CORRECTLY DONE YOU WILL HAVE IT. IAM USING A 6522 DRIVER CARD THE REST YOU WILL FIGURE OUT. MY NUMBER IS 214-651-1652. ASK FOR BOB PARENTON. Msg#:22058 *INK* 08/16/89 18:48:02 From: RENE NUNEZ To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: CCI ISSUE 10 Hi Steve: I can't wait anymore to read CCI issue 10 with all of the goodies about Home Control. I have been checking my mailbox, have call the post office and still have not received the current issue. I called the CCI offices last monday, and the lady that answered the phone said that they still were in the process of mailing them, and that if I had not received it by next week, to give her a call, and shw would mail me one. Am I wrong in assuming that I am the only one who has not received it yet????. Please advice. thank you Rene. PS. sorry for the trouble, but I am going thru withdrawal symptoms without CCI. By the way, how soon before it becomes a monthly ??? Msg#:22108 *INK* 08/17/89 16:36:59 From: STEVE CIARCIA To: RENE NUNEZ (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 22058 (CCI ISSUE 10) Rene, I am leaving ina about 10 minutes for a trip. If you haven't received it by Monday's mail, then call Rose at CCI and she will send you an issue. 2nd class mail is funny. It can take 3-10 days for the mail guys to deliver it. We aren't at 10 yet. But, don't worry, we won't forget you. --Steve P.S. Not monthly, but CC INK will probably have 8 issues next year! Msg#:22115 *INK* 08/17/89 18:53:10 From: RENE NUNEZ To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 22108 (CCI ISSUE 10) Thanks for everything. Hopefully I won't have to call Rose. I really enjoy your articles and way of thinking, only wish I had all of the resources available that you do. My pet thing is home control. I have a HCS , but can not wait until the next generation comes out (HCS II). I understand that Ken has a semi working version of it. Will we ever see an article about it?. It sounds as distributed intelligence is very powerfull, but unfortunately it may also become very expensive. Well, txs a lot, and have a good trip. Rene. PS. 8 issues is not enought, but i guess it will have to do until the following year. Msg#:22243 *INK* 08/21/89 09:58:19 From: STEVE CIARCIA To: RENE NUNEZ (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 22115 (CCI ISSUE 10) The original HCS II was tentatively based on the BCC180. It now appears that it is use a loop of RCT52s on a network with the BCC180 or a PC as the host. If it ever gets built, it will be an article. --Steve Msg#:22488 *INK* 08/26/89 22:45:14 From: RENE NUNEZ To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 22243 (CCI ISSUE 10) I hope it the HCSII will get built someday. be a standalone BCC180 or a networked system based on rtc52 with a BCC180 as a master. I have started designing a home control system based on a pc, as there is a lot of hardware available at very reasonably prices, but once you start looking at systems that can be battery powered for extended periods of time (up to 12 hours) with a hard disk and all of the additional boards (video, voice digitizer, i/o etc) the prices escalate very rapidly. I have thought of using a laptop, but due to the limited expandability, the idea was scratched. I was really hoping a BCC180 with its limited power requirements would be the base for the HCSII, and maybe using a pc for the additional "bells and withles (sp?)" such as voice synthezis, displays overlays on tv etc. I understood that Ken had a very basic HCSII working at home, and that maybe that system with a little polishing could be offer as the new generation. Something that look very interesting on CEBUS article was the idea of using the last few lines of the tv screen to display a one liner (when needed) about the status of the home. I wonder if you or some of the other people int this board have an idea of how to design a circuit to allow the image to be overlaid on to a tv monitor (video input). Well, in any case, two days after I spoke to Rose, I received CCInk. Thanks, Rene. Msg#:22559 *INK* 08/29/89 09:08:40 From: STEVE CIARCIA To: RENE NUNEZ (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 22488 (CCI ISSUE 10) When Ken writes the code, the BCC180 will be included but for now my plan is to string a bunch of RTC52s on the MC-NET (big brother to INK NET). Each RTC52 will have local battery back-up. The net will have an AT as its diagnostic central focus but it can be shut off when not needed to conserve power. Each node will have different functions and I will include an LCD display node that can give a running status of the system (of course the AT can do that too but you wouldn't want to keep it on all the time. Just remember when something is left on 100% it cost about $1/watt per year!). There are 3 more RTC expansion boards in the works and I think I've solved my lightning problem so we'll be building this thing in the fall. Keep tuned. --Steve Msg#:22578 *INK* 08/29/89 14:46:25 From: ED NISLEY To: RENE NUNEZ (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 22488 (CCI ISSUE 10) Bells and whistles, Rene, bells and whistles. (Steve accuses me of Bell and Whistle mania every now and again, so I'm real sure how it's spelled!) Msg#:22116 *INK* 08/17/89 19:55:24 From: WILSON SNYDER To: JEFF BACHIOCHI (Rcvd) Subj: 8751 PROGRAMMING I recently completed the 8751 adapter described in your INK article. I am using the Promenade C1 programmer for the Commodore 64, and need some help in determining the proper settings for it. I looked at the Signetics 8051 series manual, and they don't give enough info for what I need. I tried 21V, 48ms programming, as with the 2764, but this did not work. Reading with these settings returns 255 in the first location, followed by a zero in locations two through five, followed by 255 in the remaining locations. I would assume that the EROM is supposed to be all $FF. Could you please describe what the values you provide for the SEP programmer do? Thanks. Msg#:22246 *INK* 08/21/89 10:08:37 From: JEFF BACHIOCHI To: WILSON SNYDER (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 22116 (8751 PROGRAMMING) Wilson, More information please! Which device are you trying to program? Depending on the type/size, different parameters must be used! jeff Msg#:22346 *INK* 08/22/89 22:00:36 From: WILSON SNYDER To: JEFF BACHIOCHI (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 22246 (8751 PROGRAMMING) My understanding is it is a standard second-sourced device: It says: AMD D8751H 8612WPA (c) Intel 1980 Thanks for your help. Msg#:22357 *INK* 08/23/89 09:53:48 From: JEFF BACHIOCHI To: WILSON SNYDER (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 22346 (8751 PROGRAMMING) The AMD 8751H is a 4k x 8 21 volt device. It should be programmed as a 2764 except the length is half of a 2764 (4k vs 8k). An erased or secure (security set) device will look like "all ones" (0FFh). The standard EPROM programming pulse for 2764's is 50ms. This device can use the fast programming algorithm. Get the Microcontrollers 1988 Data Book/Handbook from AMD to verify the proper signal levels are presented to the micro. AMD in CA is at (408) 732-2400. jeff Msg#:22202 *INK* 08/20/89 15:29:55 From: JOHN C. COONS To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 19383 (INFRARED CONTROLLER ARTICLE) Am very interested in your I/O board for RTC. Any idea when you would publish an article on this? Msg#:22258 *INK* 08/21/89 10:43:41 From: STEVE CIARCIA To: JOHN C. COONS Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 22202 (INFRARED CONTROLLER ARTICLE) There may not be any CC INK article on the additional expansion boards since they are Micromint designed products. However you can always purchase the manuals (which include schematics) for any Micromint product. Alternatively, wait until you know it is being sold and just send me an SASE and we'll send you the schematics. The next board is an 8-channel optoisolated I/O. We don't know which, the LCD/Keyboard/X-10 or, the serial/IR/timer board will fall out first. --Steve Msg#:22230 *INK* 08/21/89 02:18:34 From: JOHAN FORRER To: SYSOP (Rcvd) Subj: 8031-FAMILY DEVELOPMENT TOOLS I have been on the lookout for math. functions for the 8031 family. I program mostly in assembly language, however have looked at some code generated by "C" compilers. The Compilers is very expensive - not within the price range for experimentors. I have built the DDT-31 and it works great. Just a pity that the 8031 family really lacks some instructions - seems like a primitive architecture. I have built and tested two 68000 PC co-processors running at 12 mhz for running some neural network stuff on. The software is TSR-based. If anyone is interested in such a project, I'll be too happy to share the harware schematics and software to drive the boards. Thanks for the great magazine and keep up the good work. Msg#:22267 *INK* 08/21/89 12:28:58 From: JAMES C. WINTERS To: KEN DAVIDSON (Rcvd) Subj: SUBSCRIPTION Ken: I have subscribed to CCI over the past year and, although I haven't been able to work on any of the projects, have found it to be a great source of inspiration and information. We bought a G-Tek 8-port serial board advertised in your mag and have been happy with it. I do have a problem though. When the subscription renewal came in I put it in my briefcase intending to send a check and now can't find the form. Perhaps I sent it in with my M/C # or some such. Can I get you to have your circulation staff check on the subscription status and leave a message? Thanks. I appreciate the help. Jim Msg#:22314 *INK* 08/22/89 09:50:18 From: CURT FRANKLIN To: JAMES C. WINTERS (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 22267 (SUBSCRIPTION) To check the status of a subscription, call 203/875-2199 and ask for Rose. She's an enourmously helpful lady who will track the facts down. Curt Msg#:22302 *INK* 08/22/89 02:51:11 From: MIKE WAROT To: ALL Subj: 8088 BOARD FROM INTEL Has anyone here heard of (or used) the XT board from intel? It was supposed to have all of the functions of an XT in a 3 * 5 inch card. This has some neat possibilities, since software seems to be the hard part of a project( for me, at least), and there are lots of MS-DOS type tools around. Msg#:22319 *INK* 08/22/89 10:28:42 From: CURT FRANKLIN To: MIKE WAROT (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 22302 (8088 BOARD FROM INTEL) What you're looking for is called the Wild Card. According to a recent Spencer Katt column in PC Week, Intel is killing the product. You might try giving your local Intel rep a call. If they're really going to drop the product, you might be able to pick one up for a good price. Curt Franklin Msg#:22328 *INK* 08/22/89 12:27:03 From: STEVE CIARCIA To: MIKE WAROT (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 22302 (8088 BOARD FROM INTEL) Micromint will be marketing an XT on a card (size of an expansion board) some time in the fall. Contains 8088 (4.77/10 MHz), serial/printer ports, and ROM BIOS (supports 256K RAM onboard). With 0K installed it will be about $250. --Steve Msg#:22339 *INK* 08/22/89 19:02:51 From: JERRY BLACK To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 22328 (8088 BOARD FROM INTEL) Why? You can buy 0k, 12 MHz AT Klone Motherboards for under $300! Msg#:22358 *INK* 08/23/89 09:53:59 From: STEVE CIARCIA To: JERRY BLACK (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 22339 (8088 BOARD FROM INTEL) Apples versus bananas. Remember, we are talking expansion card format with a passive backplane. They cost a lot more. Micromint will also have a 12 MHz AT (in addition to the OEM-286) in expansion card form factor that will hold 1 Meg DRAM. A 0K board is tentatively priced at $399. --Steve Msg#:22340 *INK* 08/22/89 19:14:22 From: JERRY BLACK To: KEN DAVIDSON (Rcvd) Subj: 647180 Ken, I'm an old 64180/SB180 junkie who has graduated/decayed to using the one-chip 647180s. Lots of fun & power in a $18. chip (but you need one of the $90 windowed ones for learning!! . Anyway, I discovered an annoying fact, which may be true for 64180s as well. Internal I/O port 18H, the 'free-running counter' is supposed to count down at 1/10 the main clock rate. In the 647180, this is just not true. It counts 3 times, 5 times slower, or not at all, depending on what combination of refresh/wait states you've programmed in. Basically worthless unless this relationship is known precisely. Is this news to you? Is it true on the 64180? . BTW, the 512-byte memory on the 647180 is static, and is reset-proof. This fact is not in the documents, and calls to Hitachi in NE office and CA got friendly people with no answer. They contacted Japan, still no answer, the place is in siesta in August. I just did a simple test (relocated code into the Ram, and jumped to it). Then reprogram the chip to merely jump to ram at reset time. You can hold reset low for 10 secs or more, it works unconditionally. Msg#:22439 *INK* 08/25/89 11:40:54 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: JERRY BLACK (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 22340 (647180) I knew that the counter was there, but I've never used it so don't know its characteristics. I think its intended purpose is as a random number seed where the actual running rate isn't important. I'm not real surprised that the rate changes since I think it's simply the refresh counter, whose rate of change is dependent on the refresh rate and wait states set. You might try leaving a message here for Tom Cantrell since he's had more exposure to the chip and can probably find out more information. Msg#:22344 *INK* 08/22/89 21:23:27 From: ROBERT BARBAGALLO To: ED NISLEY (Rcvd) Subj: INT0 BCC52 Mr Nisley, After reading all your articles in Ink I'm convinced you are the expert when it comes to the 8052. I have a problem when it comes to the Int0 on the Bcc52, it goes something like this. I am trying to get the Int0 to work in back ground. I've put a LJMP in location 4003h as the manual lists, but when I pull the pin low nothing happens.I've tested the routine by doing a CALL 4003h in basic and everything seems to work fine.I trigger the interrupt by putting a jumper to the int0 pin. I've also setup : TCON=TCON.OR.01 and IE=IE.OR.81h. The BCC52 seems to see the interrupt but not react. The reason I say this is by a test program written in basic: 10 ? TCON 20 GOTO 10 When i touch the int0 pin with a low the output number changes indicating an interrupt, but nothing happens. Here is the source to my routine if have the time could you please look it over and let me know what I'm doing wrong. Thank you, Bob CPU 8051 ORG 4003H LJMP START ORG 4100H ;SET STARTING ADDRESS ; EQUATES IE: EQU 00A8H ;IE REGISTER TCON: EQU 0088H ;TCON REGISTER ACC: EQU 00E0H ;ACCUMALATOR B: EQU 00F0H ;B REGISTER DPL: EQU 0082H ;DATA POINTER LOW DPH: EQU 0083H ;DATA POINTER HIGH PORTA: EQU 0E800H ;8255 PORTA PORTB: EQU 0E801H ;8255 PORTB PORTC: EQU 0E802H ;8255 PORTC CONTROL: EQU 0E803H ;8255 CONTROL PSW: EQU 0D0H ;PSW REGISTER DELL: EQU 09H ;DELAY 50US DELL2: EQU 0EH ;DELAY 30US DEL4: EQU 4H ;DELAY 15US COUNT: EQU 20H ;COUNTER ADD CNTV: EQU 0C0H ;COUNTER VALUE BASE: EQU 5000H ;BASE ADD OF ANALOG CHANNEL: EQU 5100H ;BASE ADD OF ANALOG INPUT ; INITIALIZATION START: ANL IE,#7FH ;DISABLE INTERRUPTS PUSH PSW ;SAVE PSW ORL PSW,#18H ;POINT REG BANK 3 PUSH ACC ;SAVE THE BYSTANDERS PUSH B PUSH DPL PUSH DPH MOV DPTR,#CONTROL ;SETUP PORT MOV A,#80H ;SET AS OUTPUTS MOVX @DPTR,A ;LOAD 8255 ; 30 US RESET PULSE RESET: MOV A,#0FFH ;PORTA BIT 1 HIGH MOV DPTR,#PORTA MOVX @DPTR,A MOV R3,#DELL2 ;WAIT 30 US DEL3: DJNZ R3,DEL3 MOV A,#0H ;PORTA BIT LOW MOV DPTR,#PORTA MOVX @DPTR,A MOV R3,#DEL4 DELAY4: DJNZ R3,DELAY4 ; ANALOG OUTPUT ROUTINE MOV COUNT,#1 ;SET COUNTER TO 0 ANALOG: MOV A,COUNT ;PUT COUNTER IN ACC MOV DPTR,#BASE ;BASE PATCH ADDRESS MOVC A,@A+DPTR ;GET PATCH VALUE MOV DPTR,#CHANNEL ;BASE ANALOG INPUT VALUE MOVC A,@A+DPTR ;GET ANALOG INPUT VALUE MOV DPTR,#PORTB ;POINT TO PORT B MOVX @DPTR,A ;OUTPUTANALOG VALUE INC COUNT ;INC DIMMER COUNTER ; 6US PULSE LOOP LOOP: MOV A,0FFH ;SET PORTA HIGH MOV DPTR,#PORTA MOVX @DPTR,A NOP ;DELAY HIGH PULSE NOP NOP NOP NOP MOV A,00H MOVX @DPTR,A NOP ;D Msg#:22369 *INK* 08/23/89 12:19:23 From: ED NISLEY To: ROBERT BARBAGALLO (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 22344 (INT0 BCC52) I think the definition of an expert is "one who has made the relevant mistake already" and that fills the bill here... You're obviously used to programming on a "real computer" instead of an 8051... and your assembler isn't helping you out at all. My favorite glitch of this sort is DEC DPTR, which is one of those instructions that would be so useful to have that my fingers code it automatically. In your case, you're doing things like ANL IE,#7F to disable interrupts. Unfortunately, the 8051 has but one accumulator and you've got to drag the operands into it, beat them into submission, and stuff them back out again. For example: MOV A,IE ANL A,#7F MOV IE,A will do the trick. However, the 8051 does have direct bit manipulation istructions that can twiddle most of the interesting bits, so the instruction you really want is CLR EA. Actually, you don't even need that as long as you don't have any higher priority interrupts in the system. The 8051 won't respond to an interrupt at the same priority level until it completes the current one, so you're pretty much safe. I think the end of your message got clipped off, but you will need a RETI instruction at the end after all the POPs to restore the registers. Remember that POPing the PSW will restore the register bank in effect just before the interrupt, so you don't have to do anything explicit. In a case where you just can't get the interrupt to work, junk all of the code in your interrupt routine and replace it with a single line that toggles an external bit. That way, you don't have to save and restore registers, you don't have to worry about not closing loops, and the odds of getting the instruction right are pretty good! You will then have maybe five lines of code in the interrupt routine itself, and you can then stare at them until little drops of blood pop out on your forehead... at which point the error will be obvious. I think you've got it pretty much right, so try reducing it to the simplest level and giving it another go. Tell us how it comes out. Msg#:22392 *INK* 08/24/89 00:50:06 From: ROBERT BARBAGALLO To: ED NISLEY (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 22369 (INT0 BCC52) Thanks very much Ed. I'llt a go. Did you get the second part of my message that had the asm file? Well it's getting late and the Expoes are in the 20TH inning I wish somebody would score!!!! Msg#:22393 *INK* 08/24/89 01:08:57 From: WALT DIPPING To: ED NISLEY (Rcvd) Subj: ASSEMBLY LANGAUGE HELP I would like to know if you could direct me to a good book on learning assembly langauge for the IBM PC. I have Microsoft MASM but dont understand about equates and how to enter code. Thanks Walt Dipping Msg#:22403 *INK* 08/24/89 10:09:09 From: TIMOTHY TAYLOR To: WALT DIPPING (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 22393 (ASSEMBLY LANGAUGE HELP) Pardon me for jumping in here, but I'd thought I'd let ya know about a couple of books I've used and found to be very helpfull. One of them is "8088 Assembler Lanuage Programming:The IBM PC" by David C. Willen and Jeffery Krantz. It's a Sams book. The other is "Assembly Language Primer for the IBM PC & XT" by Robert LaFore. This one is from the Waite Group. Once you get started, you my find "IBM ROM BIOS" by Ray Duncan from Microsoft Press usefull. It contains a slew of info for Rom Bios calls for the full line of IBM PC's and P/S 2's. Hope this has been helpfull. Msg#:22408 *INK* 08/24/89 15:06:19 From: ED NISLEY To: WALT DIPPING (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 22393 (ASSEMBLY LANGAUGE HELP) Unfortunately, it's been too long since I've read any of the introductory texts for me to give good advice. If you've got a good bookstore in the area (B Dalton or WaldenBooks/Software), take a look and see what comes up. The real problem with programming tomes is that they concentrate on relatively small programs, so they can get away with simple coding practices. Once you get beyond the "toy program" stage there's a whole bunch of stuff you need to do to make the project manageable... and, as near as I can tell, there are _no_ sources for hints on how to do it. I'm going to have to write a few articles for INK telling what I've found out (and perhaps getting some feedback from folks who have better ideas!). I'll take a look and see what I've got unpacked on the shelves... if there's anything helpful, I'll add them to the list in the Files section for general reference. Msg#:22428 *INK* 08/25/89 00:48:28 From: JIM FULTON To: ALL USERS Subj: TRACKING SOVIET TV SATELLITES does marke dahmke or anyone else have a circuit board or artwork for a circuit board to implement mark's tracker. is anyone interested in building up this circuitry and software? Msg#:22451 *INK* 08/25/89 14:13:45 From: BRAD LEWIS To: SYSOP (Rcvd) Subj: HARDWARE PROJECTS In the past (long time ago) Steve did some hardware projects for the Apple computer. Now I know that the Apple is dying or dead in some peoples minds but not all of us can afford a new machine. Will there be any projects done around the Apple IIe,GS computer? The GS with its graphics and sound/speech capabilites should lend itself to some interesting projects, and it would be a great larning experience for those two million Apple owners. I had to ask....thanks Msg#:22456 *INK* 08/25/89 14:49:37 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: BRAD LEWIS (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 22451 (HARDWARE PROJECTS) We try not to discriminate based on computer type, so would gladly look at any article proposal based on the Apple //e or GS. We don't plan to do any in-house development of such projects, though, so have to rely on outside authors. There hasn't been an overflow of Apple articles in the past simply because they haven't been submitted. Msg#:22560 *INK* 08/29/89 09:14:37 From: STEVE CIARCIA To: BRAD LEWIS (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 22451 (HARDWARE PROJECTS) Past issues of CC INK have included an Apple II-based temperature monituring system and a SCSI interface for a MAC. Of course, most of our perjects (like RTC52, serial eprom programmer, ImageWise, etc) are serial based and not dependent on any specific computer. Looking at our table of contents for the word "APPLE" can be misleading. --Steve Msg#:22505 *INK* 08/27/89 22:38:32 From: GARY W. KIDWELL To: ALL Subj: CEBUS SPECIFICATION I'm looking for a copy of the current CEBus specification. I understand that the EIA has not yet ratified this spec, but I would still like to get a working spec copy if possible. Does anyone out there know where I might be able to get one? Msg#:22513 *INK* 08/28/89 09:11:30 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: GARY W. KIDWELL Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 22505 (CEBUS SPECIFICATION) I trust you've seen the Circuit Cellar INK article describing CEBus? That's as much detail as you're going to see until the final spec is released. EIA is very picky about who sees the working specs since they are changing so much. The PLBus physical layer plus the higher network layers are slated to be released in November. Even then I think you might have a tough time getting hold of them until after the intial "comment period." The other physical layer interfaces (CX, TP, IR, RF, and FO) are still in the development stages and won't be out for a while (FO isn't even being actively worked on). You won't have any luck getting details on them because, in some cases, there aren't any details yet. I just got back from the latest round of CEBus committee meetings, so have a good handle on the committee's feelings in this area as well as the current state of the spec. Msg#:22550 *INK* 08/29/89 07:36:19 From: BOB PADDOCK To: KEN DAVIDSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 22513 (CEBUS SPECIFICATION) Since I don't know how to file a 'comment' during the "comment period", maybe you can pass this along. After reading your article about CEbus, one of my colleagues here brought up an interesting question: From what we read it seems that CEbus doesn't use any type of Frame-Check-Sequence numbers. How is this type of problem handled: Lets say we are doing some thing like a file transfer. The sending station transmits a block of data. The receiving station transmits an ACK that the block was received correctly. The ACK now gets corrupted by noise, and is lost. The transmitting end resends the block. The receiving station gets the data (that it already has), and now you have the same block twice in your received file. Wouldn't FCS's would resolve this problem of redundant reception/lost ACKs? There is some thing that I don't understand about net working stuff in general: Why does every one keep 'reinventing the wheel'. Why not just use some thing like the ZMODEM protocol (which is in the Public Domain, along with the Unix "C" source code [RSZS.ZOO])? Or use X.25 (I'll admit getting X.25 into a single-chip-mode 8051 might be difficult because of lack of memory space and time)? Msg#:22556 *INK* 08/29/89 08:35:19 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: BOB PADDOCK (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 22550 (CEBUS SPECIFICATION) CEBus wasn't designed for file transfers; it was designed for short messages and burst traffic. However, when a message is longer than 32 bytes, an extended header is used in the NPDU and the message is broken into several 32-byte (or smaller) packets. Part of the extended header contains a packet sequence number so the network layer can keep things straight. There is a lot more to the CEBus spec than appeared in the article. Hell, the working specs I've seen for a single physical layer alone are longer than the whole article. There's only so much you can do in 10 pages. I think part of the reason why you see so many different network implementations is because no one implementation is ideal in all circumstances. Putting a network together is nothing but tradeoffs and compromises. CEBus is designed for burst traffic and short messages. Another network might be optimized for heavy traffic with long messages. Clearly, a scheme which is highly efficient in one instance generally won't work well in the other. Msg#:22582 *INK* 08/29/89 15:03:42 From: ED NISLEY To: BOB PADDOCK (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 22550 (CEBUS SPECIFICATION) I can tell you've never tried to buy a wheel for your '87 Camry wagon... there are more different wheels than you can shake a stick at and none of them fit! That's the real reason there are so many different networks. Each one is optimized (with any luck!) for one particular application. Hardware constraints and language restrictions are other problems that get to be solved. Would that one size shoe fit everyone, too! Msg#:22507 *INK* 08/28/89 00:54:27 From: HAROLD HALLIKAINEN To: ALL Subj: PROJECT PACKAGING The latest CCI has a ConnectTime thread regarding packaging of custom projects. A technique we've used for front panel labeling of rack mount equipment is to have the panel anodized (typically black or blue) then have a local trophy shop engrave it. We end up with a very durable front panel. Msg#:22531 *INK* 08/28/89 16:48:08 From: MICHAEL TRAN To: SYSOP (Rcvd) Subj: 10MHZ DIGITIZING BOARD I am a senior computer engineering student at San Jose State University in California. I am very interested in the project entitled "10-Mhz/8-bit digitizing Board for the IBM PC published in your September/October 1988 (Vol1, No5) issue. I would like to purchase this project as a kit or possibly talk to the author Russel Lindgren for advice. I have call INK and have tried to contact the author; but no luck. Can you help me ? Msg#:22553 *INK* 08/29/89 08:11:24 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: MICHAEL TRAN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 22531 (10MHZ DIGITIZING BOARD) All I can suggest is to either leave a message for him here (he hasn't called here in quite a while), or write him a letter in care of the magazine and we'll see he gets it. I can't give out his address or phone number without his permission. I can tell you that no kits or assembled boards were every produced for that project, so if you want a board, you're on your own. Msg#:22543 *INK* 08/28/89 22:55:55 From: MARK E. HUSS To: ED NISLEY (Rcvd) Subj: LCDS Ed: I read with interest your article on LCDs in the Firmware Furnace, since I am presently working on a project that needs one! I had a difficult time getting a Sharp LM-series to work, until I read the footnote in the LCDtest source about one-line displays having two rows! You just cannot get the right half of the display to work unless you initialize the controller to 2 rows when you start . I converted your program to Turbo C, since that's wat I use, and uploaded it to the files section as 'lcdtest.tc'. I also added an -a option to indicate the actual number of chars visible. This makes the display look more normal during the ascending characters bit. I enjoy your articles in CCInk...keep up the good work. Mark Huss Msg#:22574 *INK* 08/29/89 14:13:56 From: ED NISLEY To: MARK E. HUSS Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 22543 (LCDS) Thanks kindly! Having to define two rows to get one makes no sense at all until you look at how it just falls out of the controller's ordinary setup. When the displays are _that_ inexpensive, you realize why they don't add a chip or two to make the programming easier! Msg#:22549 *INK* 08/29/89 07:16:59 From: ROBERT BARBAGALLO To: ED NISLEY / ALL Subj: INT0 BCC52 Your right, this is my first crack at the 8031. Like Steve my favorite programming language is solder. I received a better assembler from Binary Technology that allows me to do bit operations, I hope this helps. Getting back to my problem with INT0 and the BCC52, I will try to explain what I'm trying to do. I would like to run a fore ground routine in basic and a hardware interrupt driven routine it background. I will trigger the background routine on INT0 every 300ms this is done to refresh the dimmer so there is no apparent dip in intensity. The foreground routine will take care of the patch tables and other functions. I hope this is clear. In your last message you stated that ANL IE,#7FH would not work to mask the interrupt. I don't understand this because I took this from one of INK's articles, and it assembles to 53,A8,7F. Is there something I should know? After stripping down my routine and reading more about 8052-BASIC I found that I did not need to PUSH the PSW, the chip does it itself. This brings up a question: What should be PUSHED and when and in what sequence. Is there any rules that are not in the Intel manuals? I finally got the 8052 to preform the interrupt, but when returning to basic it would hang. After further investigation I found that with the basic hung it would still preform the interrupt routine. Any ideas, I'm about to jump out the window!!! I climbed back in and chopped more code and every thing seemed to work fine. The celebration was short lived. I wrote a short FOR NEXT loop in basic and it crashed, I got C STACK ERROR and it would sometimes kick in the text editor form my ROM a/b from Micro Mint. It would also corrupt my Basic programs. I just don't know. Am I asking too much from the BCC52? Well ED thanks for reading this and if or anybody else have any ideas please let me know. Thanks, Bob Msg#:22761 *INK* 09/07/89 13:33:05 From: ED NISLEY To: ROBERT BARBAGALLO (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 22549 (INT0 BCC52) Ooops. Color me red. The 8051 has one of the lumpiest instruction sets around, and I've just gotten scraped on a lump. You need to drag operands into the accumulator to do anything to them, _unless_ you're doing ANL, ORL, or XRL between a direct operand and an immediate operand... in which case it'll work. Sorry about that, you are absolutely correct and that instruction does just what you want it to (but CLR EA is still better!). BASIC stack errors sound like you've corrupted the internal variables, which can happen if you're storing things in registers. BASIC allows you to use Register bank 3 for interrupt routines; I don't recall if you're setting RS0 and RS1 on entry to your interrupt routine. Although the BASIC code pushes PSW for you, you must POP it before doing the RETI. Can you boil your interrupt handler down to a dozen lines and upload it? If it's actually getting interrupts, we'll presume you've got the setup correct and it's just a matter of a one-line blunder in the handler itself... all we need do is expose it to a few hundred interested observers! ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Msg#:22703 *INK* 09/05/89 20:36:00 From: AL HILL To: ED NISLEY (Rcvd) Subj: LCD'S Ed, I was wondering if you knew of any LCDs that were suited to memory mapping so that each character could be displayed simply by setting each memory location to the value desired, rather than talking to the controller as with the H2570. Any information you have would be appreciated. Msg#:22713 *INK* 09/06/89 09:50:06 From: JEFF BACHIOCHI To: AL HILL (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 22703 (LCD'S) Al, When the lowest costs are necessary a dumb LCD is the way to go. You've got the power in your micro to do the necessary character building. LCD's with built-in LSI controllers remove that task from your micro. These 'smart' LCDs can interface by nibble or byte to your system. Almost all LCD manufacturers offer 'smart' as well as 'dumb' modules. I've seen 'smart' LCDs as small as 1x8 characters. Two of my favorites are Hitachi's LM044L and LM213B. The first is a 4x20 character display. The second is an 8x40 character display (this one can alternately do 64x256 pixel graphics). You can expect to pay about $50 and $100 in single quantities! That is without backlighting. Backlighting is an option and must be bought as such. Backlit LCDs are transparent whereas non-backlit ones are not, so you can't go adding back lighting at a later date! jeff Msg#:22716 *INK* 09/06/89 10:13:29 From: AL HILL To: JEFF BACHIOCHI (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 22713 (LCD'S) Jeff, thanks for the info. Can you point me to some dumb LCD's? What I am doing is replacing a LED display of 16 characters (4 x DL1416 from Siemans). All my programming and editing is done in software. The DL1416 has latch, decoder, driver, etc built in. All I want to do is address location x and put a character there. The reason for replacing the LED's is simply a power issue. Again, thanks. AL Hill Msg#:22737 *INK* 09/07/89 08:27:17 From: JEFF BACHIOCHI To: AL HILL (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 22716 (LCD'S) Al, Check the Digikey catalog. OP116 1x16 $20.79 or OP116E (w/OP002) backlit (w/inverter) $25.60 (+$9.50). In order to simply send ASCII characters (after some initialization) the LCD must have an on-board controller. I would consider this 'smart'! jeff Msg#:22749 *INK* 09/07/89 11:33:07 From: ED NISLEY To: AL HILL (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 22703 (LCD'S) I peeked at Jeff's answer, but we're in close agreement anyway... I've used an LCD controller that gave a memory-mapped interface in either text or graphics mode, but the problem was that it ate far too much memory for a small controller application. It was similar to the 6845 CRT controller, but designed to handle the LCD refresh by dual-porting a block of RAM that was also mapped into the CPU's address space. (Oddly enough, it worked just fine, despite the bizarre logic required to pull it off) However, for low-end applications you want to reduce the number of connections... and it's hard to beat five or six signal lines! That fancy controller is buried several years in the past, but I think it was put out by either Hitachi or Toshiba. They had an evaluation card available, too, which came in handy during the "how does it _really_ work" stage of the design. Msg#:22781 *INK* 09/08/89 02:07:05 From: AL HILL To: JEFF BACHIOCHI (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 22737 (LCD'S) Jeff, thanks for all the help. Hope I can reciprocate someday. Regards, Al. Msg#:22710 *INK* 09/06/89 07:50:31 From: DUANE K. LARSON To: ED NISLEY (Rcvd) Subj: DISTRIBUTED CONTROL ARTICLE Good Article in the Aug/Sept. issue of INK. Agree with your assesment of Token Passing vs CSMA/CD, however I disagree with your use of a Master Controller. Drawing on my experience with LAN's and Industrial Control, I have implemented ARCNET systems with minimum trouble. Since it will be necessary to design the local control units anyway, look at the Standard Microsystems (SMC) line of LANC chips (i.e. 9026 etc.) as these will give you the ability to implement a token passing scheme with out a master quite easily. The ARCNET board for an XT/AT class machine is about $120.00. The complete ARCNET protocol is handled in the hardware including reconfiguring the network, ACK, NAK, token passing, etc. Also speed is quite good, more than will ever be needed across a network. Look forward to further articles. Msg#:22750 *INK* 09/07/89 11:36:52 From: ED NISLEY To: DUANE K. LARSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 22710 (DISTRIBUTED CONTROL ARTICLE) Yup, with sufficient horsepower at each node you don't need a master. The real catch is trying to pull it off with an 8051 processor and 8K of code... there isn't a lot of room for fancy features! A friend called up to point out that an IBM Token-Ring network will work just fine with a single cut anywhere in the ring: the nodes scuffle about for a while, then realize that packets can't get completely around and start echoing them in the right direction at the cut! Of course, the IBM board has an 8 MIP RISC processor on it to handle the network interface... Msg#:22734 *INK* 09/07/89 02:07:29 From: JOE COUVILLION To: RUSSELL LINDGREN Subj: OSCILLOSCOPE BOARD I am seriously thinking about using your board as a basis for a senior project at school. I would like to add selectable gain to the scope, and am curious as to how much of a problem noise would be. Do you have any ideal of how much of a signal might be picked up if I tried to hook a probe directly to the back of the board? Or should I amplify the signal outside the computer to put a large signal through noise? I was also thinking that if more than one board was in use, it would be nice to have them all trigger off the same signal. Is this hard to add to the current design? Msg#:22742 *INK* 09/07/89 10:02:06 From: CURT FRANKLIN To: JOE COUVILLION (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 22734 (OSCILLOSCOPE BOARD) Joe - Since the author of that article doesn't log on to this board often (if at all), let me suggest that you put your questions into a letter and send them to him in care of Circuit Cellar INK. We'll make sure that the letter gets to him, and he *is* pretty good about answering his mail. Curt Franklin Msg#:22761 *INK* 09/07/89 13:33:05 From: ED NISLEY To: ROBERT BARBAGALLO (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 22549 (INT0 BCC52) Ooops. Color me red. The 8051 has one of the lumpiest instruction sets around, and I've just gotten scraped on a lump. You need to drag operands into the accumulator to do anything to them, _unless_ you're doing ANL, ORL, or XRL between a direct operand and an immediate operand... in which case it'll work. Sorry about that, you are absolutely correct and that instruction does just what you want it to (but CLR EA is still better!). BASIC stack errors sound like you've corrupted the internal variables, which can happen if you're storing things in registers. BASIC allows you to use Register bank 3 for interrupt routines; I don't recall if you're setting RS0 and RS1 on entry to your interrupt routine. Although the BASIC code pushes PSW for you, you must POP it before doing the RETI. Can you boil your interrupt handler down to a dozen lines and upload it? If it's actually getting interrupts, we'll presume you've got the setup correct and it's just a matter of a one-line blunder in the handler itself... all we need do is expose it to a few hundred interested observers! Msg#:22784 *INK* 09/08/89 02:58:15 From: KENNETH MAXON To: EVERYBODY Subj: FINDING HARIS PARTS TO: ALL I AM HAVING THE HARDEST TIME GETTING AHOLD OF THE HARIS SEMICONDUCTOR CHIPS USED IN THE DAQ 3000 (INK JUNE/JULY 89). PART OF THE PROBLEM STEMS FROM THE FACT THAT THE PART NUMBERS ARE ACTUALLY SOMETHING LIKE HI1-574-AJD-5, WITH SEVERAL VARIATIONS ? --> COULD SOMEONE ACTUALLY TELL ME THE FULL COMPLETE PART NUMBER, AND WHERE I COULD GET AT LEAST SINGLE QUANTITIES ? I HAVE TRIED SEVERAL SOURCES HERE IN THE PACIFIC NORTH - WEST WITHOUT ANY LUCK (ALMAC, ANTHEM, HALMARK, WYLIE, & HAMILTON) !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!HELP ??? DOSE ANYONE HAVE ANY EXTRAS? OR KNOW OF OTHER PARTS SUITABLE FOR SAMPELING MUSIC FOR 12 OR 16 BIT A TO D -KEN MAXON : THANKS Msg#:22796 *INK* 09/08/89 10:05:57 From: JEFF BACHIOCHI To: KENNETH MAXON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 22784 (FINDING HARIS PARTS) Ken, HI1-574Axx-x is the base part number. xx-x code are as follows: JD-5 +/-1lsb 11bits 45PPM/degreeC KD-5 +/-1/2lsb 12bits 25PPM Ld-5 +/-1/2lsb 12bits 10PPM above all 0 to 75 degreeC SD-2(or8) +/-1lsb 11bits 50PPM TD-2(or8) +/-1lsb 12bits 25PPM UD-2(or8) +/-1lsb 12bits 12.5PPM above all -55 to +125 degreeC -8 is Hi-Rel product Call Harris at (714) 540-2176 for your nearest stocking distributor! jeff Msg#:22846 *INK* 09/09/89 11:09:00 From: KENNETH MAXON To: JEFF BACHIOCHI (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 22796 (FINDING HARIS PARTS) THANKS FOR THE INFO, THIS IS EXACTLY WHAT I WAS LOOKING FOR! I AM NOT FAMILIAR WITH THE PPM RATING, IS THIS POSSIBLY THE TEMPERATURE DERATING COEFFICENT ??? -KEN Msg#:22903 *INK* 09/11/89 09:18:11 From: JEFF BACHIOCHI To: KENNETH MAXON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 22846 (FINDING HARIS PARTS) Ken, The PPM is the maximum drift over the complete temperature range! jeff Msg#:22879 *INK* 09/10/89 13:15:28 From: MARK BALCH To: SCOTT FARLEY Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 20593 (INFORMATION SOURCES) Sorry I'm replying so late, but I was away for 2 months... Most of the information that I encounter in magazines is as you said "broad-brush" and includes next to no solid information to help me. For instance, BYTE's "in-depth" of NNets didn didn't break the surface of applications at all and even the articles in Dr.Dobbs didn't include algorithms, code or formulas that I would like to study. Finding a middle ground isn't as easy as I expected. Have you done any research past adaline? If so could you give me some sources? Thanks...Mark Msg#:22962 *INK* 09/11/89 22:02:00 From: DAVE EWEN To: CURT FRANKLIN (Rcvd) Subj: CCINK INDEX Curt, Would it be feasable to have a cumulative online ccink index similar to the indexes that appear in the December issue of many magazines? Except, since ccink back issues are available, this online index could cover all issues all the way back to #1. Your thoughts? Msg#:22977 *INK* 09/12/89 09:56:28 From: CURT FRANKLIN To: DAVE EWEN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 22962 (CCINK INDEX) My thoughts are that this would be a wonderful idea. The trouble is that everyone here is running flat out to keep the magazine coming out. We've started a comprehensive index but it's a "when you have time" priority, so I can't hazard a guess as to when it will be posted here. Thanks for letting me know that you want one: Reader requests have a concrete effect on priority levels. Curt Msg#:22990 *INK* 09/12/89 10:51:28 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: DAVE EWEN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 22962 (CCINK INDEX) There already is a list of what's contained in each issue, albeit not in alphabetical order but by issue. Go to the INK information area and look at the information about back issues. Msg#:23033 *INK* 09/13/89 13:52:05 From: DAVE EWEN To: KEN DAVIDSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 22990 (CCINK INDEX) Weeel, the problem is that the magazines tend to get 'distributed.' Some are downstairs, some are upstairs, some are at work, and some may be loaned out... but you are right; if I was neat I wouldn't need an index. -Dave Msg#:23035 *INK* 09/13/89 14:34:01 From: DAVE EWEN To: KEN DAVIDSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 22990 (CCINK INDEX) Oops. Sorry. Yes, I found it. Online, and quite nice. Thanks! -Dave Msg#:22968 *INK* 09/11/89 23:23:10 From: TOM KREYCHE To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: LIGHTNING speaking of lightning (as in your recent column) i've been interested in building a lightning detection system. the forest service etc have them: you end up with a computer map of strikes over some area. i'm not sure of the process. you could probably from one location have 4 antennas and measure phase difference between arriving strikes, but i think the big boys have several stations spread out and compare them, must have very accurate clocking though. anyone have ideas? how about establishing a private lighting strike net? yes i'm a weather fanatic! tom Msg#:22984 *INK* 09/12/89 10:16:17 From: STEVE CIARCIA To: TOM KREYCHE (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 22968 (LIGHTNING) Bob Paddock supplied me with volumes of data and articles on lightning. The conclusion is that, "we think we know what lightning is"; "it's damn expensive and hard to fully protect yourself from it"; and, "lightning detection schemes will surely tell you when you've had a direct hit!" :-) I'm not sure that knowing a storm is coming does anything if I get hit anyway. Lightning rods and a good ground plane are the only answer. --Steve Msg#:23043 *INK* 09/13/89 18:50:37 From: TRACEY COLLIER To: TOM KREYCHE Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 22968 (LIGHTNING) It would be interesting if nothing else to see how they do it. But as Steve well knows, by the time it gets here its usually too late:-) Its like trying to predict when the car's going to hit the pole that knocks out the power while you're saving 3 hours of hard labor. I don't think it's phase relationship since lightning is pure electricity and covers the entire spectrum from DC to 10 million Gigahertz. Remote radio relay, perhaps, delayed to transmit after the Strike's RFI has cleared. As I said it could be interestingto see. TJC Msg#:23318 *INK* 09/20/89 08:09:05 From: BOB PADDOCK To: TOM KREYCHE Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 22968 (LIGHTNING) What you are looking for are US Patents: 4,115,732 and 4,198,599. Also see the article: "Lightning: New Detection System" by Jorma Hyypia, in SCIENCE & MECHANICS Winter 1980, pg 55-58 and pg 120-123. Msg#:23041 *INK* 09/13/89 17:38:02 From: STEVE SAMPSON To: ALL Subj: DATA COMMUNICATIONS I just received a wrong data manual, but it's interesting anyway. It's called the National "Advanced Peripherals Data Communications, Local Area Networks, UARTS" 1988 edition. Has some nice application notes as well as some interesting IC for this field.e1{_ National Semiconductor (408) 721-5000, P.O. Box 58090, Santa Clara, CA, 95052-8090. Msg#:23186 *INK* 09/16/89 23:06:36 From: LANCE CHARETTE To: SYSOP (Rcvd) Subj: MESAGES Hello there..... I am a first time user of the BBS but a member from the beginning of the CCI journal.....I have browsed through the BBS and rather liked it. I would like to know if there is....or if not if there could be....an arc file set up that includes messages uploaded to the system....It could be where they are broke down cronologically as an example.....The purpose???? Well I could make Indiana Bell's September Office facility payment for them if I tried to read through all the mesages loaded as I had started this and noticed I was reading msgs dated 11/88.....It would be more convienent however to download the messages and browse through them in a more economical matter. Please let me know what is available as I have found the few msgs I had read to be of interest and would like to look through the rest......Thanks.... Msg#:23220 *INK* 09/18/89 08:43:01 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: LANCE CHARETTE Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 23186 (MESAGES) I'm glad you like the magazine. There isn't any way to download the messages in compressed binary format. This has been discussed before and I'd rather not get into it again. The closest you can get is to capture the messages as they come down the line and read them later. You might also try searching the Subject fields for keywords that would be of interest to you. Another alternative is we have sets of two months' worth of messages available on disk for $15 per set starting over a year ago. Msg#:23207 *INK* 09/17/89 18:45:24 From: MARK DAHMKE To: JIM FULTON Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 22428 (TRACKING SOVIET TV SATELLITES) Sorry I haven't been on this bbs in a while... I was out sick for several weeks. The circuit shown in the article exists only as a JDR hand-wired one-of-a-kind (actually there are two in existance). It's really quite simple... another approach would be to buy an off-the-shelf I/O board with A to D and some TTL output lines, or use Micromint products. The application really doesn't need a dedicated IBM PC, an SB180 or BCC180 would do the job nicely. ---mark Msg#:23306 *INK* 09/20/89 00:36:09 From: PAUL SHUBEL To: ALL Subj: WEATHER CENTER Reference: Circuit Cellar Ink Sept/Oct 1988: page 20. Can Someone Please Help Me With The Questions Below? 1) About U212 (74ALS04), how does "RST" inverted give "ADDR". Or, what does "ADDR" stand for? 2) I see the signal "ADS" entering U230.1,U230.10,U201.34. Is "ADS" supposed to be address-strobe; normally referred to as "AS"? 3) Exactly what device is H202. Is it a delay line? If so what are the rammifications (no pun intended) of its use? 4) What is the story with the DP8421? I called up a National distributor on Long G'Island and they said the chip is still in testing by National and it hasn't been released yet. Does anybody know where or how to get one? 5) In reference to the weather center schematic, thanks for not drawing "OR" gates in Demorgan form. I hate reading schematics that way!!!! Msg#:23331 *INK* 09/20/89 11:27:18 From: CURT FRANKLIN To: PAUL SHUBEL (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 23306 (WEATHER CENTER) I'm not sure how often Mark is checking in here these days, so if you'll send a letter to him in c/o Circuit Cellar INK, we'll make sure he sees the questions. He is pretty good about asnwering queries from mail... Curt Msg#:23337 *INK* 09/20/89 14:22:03 From: DAVE EWEN To: STEVE AND KEN Subj: ROVER I had a thought on the subject of ROVER the other day, just a small idea that I am curious about now; what sort of image/picture can be generated on a fax? I use a fax only occasionally, and then only on pure text. Will a fax produce a decent image? Could ROVER be set up to use a fax card and, when triggered by an 'event/ups truck' send a fax to the office? If acceptable images are possible this would eliminate the need for any special equipment at the office. -Dave Msg#:23366 *INK* 09/21/89 08:49:56 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: DAVE EWEN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 23337 (ROVER) Fax sometimes has trouble with small text; pictures would most certainly give it problems. A fax has fairly low resolution and only black and white. If it could parallel a 300-dpi laser printer in quality, then you might have something. But low resolution and black and white usually combine to yield poor results. Besides, how would you move the camera around and shoot the laser? :-) Msg#:23386 *INK* 09/21/89 14:49:48 From: STEVE CIARCIA To: DAVE EWEN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 23337 (ROVER) With the ZIP software from Hogware (see CC INK ads) you don't need anything besides the PC and a modem at the receiving end. ZIP will display an ImageWise picture on EGA or VGA with great detail. --Steve Msg#:23561 *INK* 09/26/89 22:30:48 From: DAVE EWEN To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 23386 (ROVER) Steve, Well, it sounds good when you say it that way... but I don't yet own even one ~$600 USR HST, much less two of them to make up the link! Oh, well. -Dave Msg#:23695 *INK* 10/02/89 10:36:41 From: STEVE CIARCIA To: DAVE EWEN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 23561 (ROVER) You don't need 9600 bps if you can live with slower picture update. 1200 bps is fine. --Steve Msg#:23798 *INK* 10/05/89 19:16:54 From: DAVE EWEN To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 23695 (ROVER) I guess 1200b would be fairly acceptable if you had some 'event detection' to enable you to grab frames that show... UPS trucks, and not just their tracks :) Msg#:23959 *INK* 10/11/89 10:35:21 From: STEVE CIARCIA To: DAVE EWEN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 23798 (ROVER) If you want that, best add a VCR and review the tape later ;-) --Steve Msg#:23560 *INK* 09/26/89 22:26:24 From: DAVE EWEN To: CURT FRANKLIN (Rcvd) Subj: OTHER 95% Curt, Some time back someone (maybe Jeff) made a comment about "a working product design is only about 5% of what it takes to have a successful product..." I would like to see some articles (or maybe a regular columnist) address this in some detail... I think it would be a positive addition to INK. -Dave Msg#:23578 *INK* 09/27/89 09:47:39 From: CURT FRANKLIN To: DAVE EWEN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 23560 (OTHER 95%) Hmmm...Not a bad idea. We'll run it around here and see what happens. Maybe this is a topic that Steve could write on to good effect. Curt Msg#:23624 *INK* 09/28/89 16:38:05 From: JAMES O'SULLIVAN To: CURT FRANKLIN (Rcvd) Subj: WEFAX ARTICLE Hi Curt, Do you know when (or if) Mark Voorhees will resume his Home Satellite Weather Center articles? I was quite interested in his articles, and he stopped just before presenting details on the WEFAX hardware. I hope the articles will continue. Msg#:23650 *INK* 09/29/89 10:08:10 From: CURT FRANKLIN To: JAMES O'SULLIVAN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 23624 (WEFAX ARTICLE) James, I'll have more details in the editorial for issue #12, but it does not look as though the weather center will continue in the magazine. This was a situation where circumstances conspired against completion, but Mark is still interested in supporting those who want to know more about the system. I suggest you write him at the address given in the last article, explaining what you'd like to see and where you are in the system. I'm sure he'd be most happy to hear from you. Curt Msg#:23945 *INK* 10/10/89 21:33:34 From: JAMES O'SULLIVAN To: CURT FRANKLIN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 23650 (WEFAX ARTICLE) Too bad. I will write to him, and thanks for the reply. - Jim Msg#:23756 *INK* 10/04/89 10:49:51 From: MARC CROTEAU To: SYSOP (Rcvd) Subj: INK When is the next issue of INK suppose to be sent out ? Msg#:23778 *INK* 10/05/89 08:59:26 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: MARC CROTEAU (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 23756 (INK) Every issue of INK starts mailing during the first few days of the first month in the cover date. The next issue is the October/November issue, and it started mailing yesterday. Similarly, the December/January issue will start mailing during the first few days of December. Msg#:23793 *INK* 10/05/89 15:32:39 From: ED NISLEY To: MARC CROTEAU (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 23756 (INK) And we just had a meeting about the contents of the Feb/Mar issue, so it's a wonder anybody around here knows what season it is, let alone today's date... Msg#:23939 *INK* 10/10/89 14:34:51 From: MARC CROTEAU To: KEN DAVIDSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 23778 (INK) Thanks, can't wait to get the next issues! Msg#:23850 *INK* 10/07/89 20:15:04 From: GILBERT A> MACKALL To: ALL Subj: PROGRAMING EEPROMS ON THE RTC52 HELP, HELP!!!!!!!!!!!! I AM TOWARDS THE END OF A PROJECT AND HAVE RUN INTO A PROBLEM. HERE'S SOME BACK GROUND. I HAVE BEEN LOOKING FOR A EASY WAY TO PROGRAM EPROMS OR EEPROMS ON THE RTC52. WELL I THINK I HAVE FOUND THE ANSWER TO PROGRAMING EEPROMS ON THE RCT52. TO PROGRAM EEPROMS ON THE RTC52 ALL YOU NEED I A SWITCH, A PULL UP RESISTOR, AND A SMALL PROGRAM. THE PROGRAM IS THE PROBLEM THAT IS KILLING ME. THE PROGRAM APPEARS TO WORK I CAN PROGRAM THE EEPROM , AND EVEN BOOT FROM THE EEPROM ONCE IT HAS BEEN PROGRAMED. BUT THE PROGRAM WILL ONLY RUN UNTIL IT HITS THE FOR TO NEXT LOOP IN THE PROGRAM, THEN I GET AN MEMORY ALLOCATION ERROR. I PUT 32H(TELL IT TO BOOT FROM EEPROM ON START-UP) IN LOCATION 08000H FFH(RCAPH) 08001H B8H(RCAPL) 08002H 55H(MARKING THE START OF THE PROGRAM) 08010H CAN ANYONE HELP? Msg#:23883 *INK* 10/09/89 09:53:57 From: JEFF BACHIOCHI To: GILBERT A> MACKALL (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 23850 (PROGRAMING EEPROMS ON THE R) Gilbert, I have just finished an APP NOTE for the RTC syste. This explains how to use battery-backed RAM modules for saving programs for auto execution. You have the right idea here. If you can give me more info on your system configuration, I might be able to point you in the right direction. jeff Msg#:23924 *INK* 10/10/89 05:49:41 From: GILBERT A> MACKALL To: JEFF BACHIOCHI (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 23883 (PROGRAMING EEPROMS ON THE R) HEY GUY THANKS FOR DROPING A LINE. TO FILL YOU IN ON WHAT HAS HAPPENED SINCE I LEFT THE MSG WILL TAKE ONLY A FEW WORDS ...........POP , THAT WAS THE SOUND OF ME PULLING MY HEADUT.. . YOU MIGHT WANT TO ADD THIS TO YOUR NOTE. IT IS POSSIBLE TO PROGRAM EEPROMS ON A RTC52. ALL YOU NEED IS A SWITCH AND 8 LINES OF BASIC( AND OF COURSE THE CODE WITH WHICH YOU WISH TO PROGRAM THE EEPROM WITH). I WOULD LIKE TO GET THIS INFO OUT TO PEOPLE AS I FIND IT A GRATE HELP TO ME. IT TOOK ME ONE LONG DAY TO GET THE IDEA AND GET THE PROGRAM WORKING, BUT BOY WAS IT WORTH IT. SO IF YOU KNOW OF A WAY OF GETTING THIS INFO TO A LOT OF PEOPLE LET ME KNOW. .......... ...............GILL Msg#:23950 *INK* 10/11/89 04:48:21 From: TOM BRUSEHAVER To: ALL Subj: 386 WHY Why is there an article about building a 386 clone in the current issue of CCI? There are too many taiwanese boards for me to build one at a better price. The prices are getting lower, and they will be more reliable. I felt the learning experience is not as good as the 286 SBC that was in Byte a couple years ago. . Sorry if I seem a bit foamy, I was hoping for a lot more from CCI than another DOS machine. God when can we stop dealing with DOS. CPM was a better O/S. Why did you all follow IBM? Msg#:23958 *INK* 10/11/89 10:07:40 From: CURT FRANKLIN To: TOM BRUSEHAVER (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 23950 (386 WHY) The reason we ran an article about an 80386 computer is simple: A *LOT* of readers asked for it. Over the last year, there have been more requests for an 80386 project than for any other single topic. When the readers speak, we listen and try to respond. On the point of cost, you're absolutely right. If the number of dollars spent is your only consideration, and especially if you value your time at any amount more than minimum wage, building an 80386 computer is a bad move. Of course, the same could be said for most build-it-yourself projects that don't involve custom applications or exotic configurations. The reasons most folks build things they could buy have to do with learning about "what makes it tick," and the satisfaction of feeling just a tad independent from a sometimes stifling society. Now for the last points. You wrote "God when can we stop dealing with DOS. CPM was a better O/S. When did you all follow IBM?" We have tried to make it clear from the beginning of Circuit Cellar INK that we are not a magazine which supports any particular bus or operating system. Closely tied to that is the corollary of not overtly ignoring any bus or operating system. The fact is that the 80386 article is hardware only, without touching on software at all. Yes, the finished computer will run MS-DOS. It will also run UNIX. I would lay good odds that it will run at least one Intel real-time OS. For the purposes of this article, it just doesn't matter. It has become fashionable in some circles to rail against MS-DOS, and to lambast IBM for the "sin" of selling several million computers. We should all be such "sinners." The fact is that CP/M was, in all probability, a better operating system than MS-DOS *in 1981*. In 1989, MS-DOS has developed (along with its assorted utilities and applications) to a point which is, in my humble opinion, considerably ahead of CP/M. Finally, to argue in the same message against the 80386 computer for being too expensive, and against MS-DOS (which is the least expensive and most heavily written-for operating system) is, at the very least, disingenuous. We'll have CP/M articles in the future, but over 70% of our readers own MS-DOS machines. It's hard to buck history. Curtis Franklin, Editor in chief Msg#:23983 *INK* 10/12/89 07:37:19 From: BOB PADDOCK To: CURT FRANKLIN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 23958 (386 WHY) But why do we still have to work around 1981 bugs? Msg#:24003 *INK* 10/12/89 16:33:02 From: ED NISLEY To: BOB PADDOCK (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 23983 (386 WHY) Hey, look, somebody around here is trying to unload a NorthStar, which, because it hasn't changed in the last decade or two, must be the apotheosis of computerdom. It does have a few minor limitations: 64K of RAM, a bizarre bankswitching scheme if you need more, hard-sectored floppies that hold (I think) 160K bytes each, and a glorious character-based serial access scheme. Buy the damn thing and descend into your bellybutton forevermore. Gad, that sounds nasty even to me. You do _not_ have to work around 1981 bugs any more. You can, and I have, write code that will run on only specified machines with certain, very specific hardware requirement. You can, and I have, specified code for clients that requires a _ton_ of memory, _lots_ of graphics dots, _zillions_ of instructions per second. What you give up is the ability to run that code on any earlier machine that doesn't have the requisite hardware. If that market is important to you, then you _must_ consider how big the installed base of machines is compared to how much software you want to sell: if they've got lots of vintage "X" machines, you had better make sure your software runs on that hardware. If that market isn't important to you, then you have _no_ hardware compatibility problems. IBM is not, by the way, the only company to have made incompatible improvements to their hardware. Name me one company that has evolved their hardware line over a 30x speed range, a 6x graphics resolution range, a 200x disk storage range, and gotten everything right with the first machine off the docks. I suspect there are none, as not even the much-vaunted IBM System/360 (uh, /370, um, /370-XA) architecture has grown warts and zits along the decades. Even code written for the legendary Lisa (oops, Mac) has a little trouble running on newer versions of that hardware -- and there you're stuck buying it from a single source. A similar argument exists for programs: why doesn't your code take advantage of the most recent hardware advances? Howcome your DOS code doesn't automatically run under UNIX? Why doesn't your old code know about the four serial ports on PS/2s? Simple -- that stuff wasn't important when you wrote the code. Who's at fault: you or the "different" machines? Hmm? Contrary to what you may think, I'm not mad. I _am_ tired of the continual bitching on the subject of "Why didn't IBM get it right the first time so I don't have to worry about it?" because it sure sounds like a case of sour grapes to me. How's about we all drop this one for a while? Msg#:24163 *INK* 10/18/89 04:13:00 From: TOM BRUSEHAVER To: CURT FRANKLIN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 23958 (386 WHY) In 1981 cp/m 3.0 could (and still can) access a full megabyte. CP/M died due to Mr. Killdalls (spelling is probably wrong) lack of foresight. CP/M86 was available (CCP/M soon afterward). No, I wont blast IBM for selling bunches of computers, only the folks who bought them (clone buyers are ok, they feed the programmers). I dunno, I was very disappointed that an article like this ran, sorry if I hurt anyones feelings. . Msg#:24164 *INK* 10/18/89 04:19:05 From: TOM BRUSEHAVER To: ED NISLEY (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 24003 (386 WHY) NeXT has the right idea. Raise the least common denominator. Every NeXT has an ethernet port, a mouse, a megapixel screen, the same keyboard, at least 4 (maybe 8) megabytes of ram, a windowing system (goofy, but they are making X work), 250 megs of optical disk, and probably a PostScript printer (400dpi). IBM, the clones and all guarentee there is an 8088 or compatible processor, 640K max, a keyboard, and a text only screen, 1 floppy (although 2 are pretty common I hear) (unless you got a hard disk) but no other assurances, how can anyone write the best software for this many variables? I have seen some really awesome stuff come along (Ventura publisher blew me away when I first saw it!) Msg#:24210 *INK* 10/19/89 11:17:41 From: ED NISLEY To: TOM BRUSEHAVER (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 24163 (386 WHY) Sure, but Ventura doesn't run on a single-floppy system with a character-only monochrome display, right? Another way of looking at it is that the IBM approach lets you pick the machine to suit your application. After all, the really important folks in this whole industry are the ones using the machines to get some useful work done... right? If you're doing text-only word procssing, the occasional mail-merge, and perhaps a spreadsheet or two, you can pick up a perfectly functional clone for under $1000. If you want full-bore desktop publishing with all the bells and whistles, you spend maybe $15 K. The fact that the DTP programs don't run on the little clone is irrelevant, as is the fact that you would use different programs on the big machine. You pick the machine to suit your purposes. Apple and NeXT presume that They Know What You Want, and it's the same for everybody. That amuses me a little, because they're supposed to be "for the rest of us" and continually point out how stuff the IBM legions are... I guess conformity is where you find it. Anyhow, if you want to write code for a unique machine, there's no difference between the NeXT and a similarly configured PC (it can be done!). You can't fault IBM for providing a bunch of other choices, though... even though it's more work for the programmers if they decide they want to support all the flavors. The keyword is "IF" because they don't have to support any configuration they don't think is appropriate. Msg#:23986 *INK* 10/12/89 08:49:19 From: CLARENCE BROWN To: SYSOP (Rcvd) Subj: RTC31 AND RS422 Sysop (Ken?): This may be in the wrong place, if so please help me place it correctly. I intended to leave a message for all users to answer a question, but couldn't seem to find the appropriate menu option. Perhaps that isn't allowed on a first visit. . I am interrested in using an RTC31 in a project involving a proprietary RS422 network, in order to add machine monitoring and control features. The RTC31 seems ideal in size, cost and reasonable I/O on a single board. However it doesn't support RS422. Soooooo close to RS485 with 232 thrown in for good measure. Are there any suggestions for adding RS422 without adding a board just for that. If there was a chip that could be substituted for the MAX232 for instance, even if some cutting and blue wiring was necessary. . I await your inspiring responses eagerly, Thanks for your help. Cla (as in Clay but spelled differently) . ps: is Cla alright instead of Clarence? I do wish to stay in line with the naming conventions and rules. Msg#:23989 *INK* 10/12/89 09:05:10 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: CLARENCE BROWN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 23986 (RTC31 AND RS422) The basic problem is that the RTC boards have only one driver and receiver, where you need two pairs for RS-422. As long as this is a one-of-a-kind board and you don't mind making a few cuts and adding a few wires, you should be able to piggyback another 75176 on top of the one on the board with a few pins bent out. Then solder some wires from those bent pins to the processor and to some screw terminals. If you need more details than that, then I wouldn't suggest trying the modification. This has to be something you're comfortable doing for it to work right. Msg#:24099 *INK* 10/16/89 10:34:43 From: CLARENCE BROWN To: KEN DAVIDSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 23989 (RTC31 AND RS422) thanks Ken, that seems pretty straight forward, and is always an option. I had perhaps hoped to find the magic chip (MAX422?) which would plug right in and give one driver from the 176, and one from the other. Piggy backing is no real problem tho, and probably less hassle. thanks again, any responses welcome. Cla Msg#:24016 *INK* 10/13/89 04:12:18 From: JAMES HYDE To: ED NISLEY (Rcvd) Subj: BASIC52 HELLO, YOUR ARTICLE ON INKNET REALLY GOT ME INTERESTED, BUT NOT SO MUCH ON INKNET BUT ON ADDING ADDITIONAL COMMANDS TO BASIC52 . COULD YOU PLEASE EXPLAIN TO ME HOW TO ADD NEW COMMANDS TO BASIC52. THANK YOU AND I LOOK FORWARD TO YOUR REPLY. SINCERELY JAMES HYDE. Msg#:24103 *INK* 10/16/89 11:15:29 From: ED NISLEY To: JAMES HYDE (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 24016 (BASIC52) It turns out that everything you need to know is in the "white book" describing the BASIC-52 language. Take a look at Chapter 12 and see if that doesn't clear things up. The extensions are available only for BASIC-52 version 1.1, so if you have an older chip you're stuck. Msg#:24041 *INK* 10/14/89 03:18:58 From: RON GRANT To: INK PUBLISHER Subj: BACK COPY To whom it may concern I am interested in the July/Aug 88 issue which has an artical called Stepping Out: A Robot Arm. I would very much like to purchase this back copy, and I would l also like to subscribe to Circuit Cellar INK. I however do not have a credit card and would like to send a money order or check. My address is 5209C South Orchard, Tacoma WA. 98467. Thank you in advance rg. Msg#:24093 *INK* 10/16/89 09:18:09 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: RON GRANT (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 24041 (BACK COPY) Sorry, but issue #4 (the one you're interested in) is completely sold out and is not available as a single-issue back issue. You can get a copy of issue #4 in the first-year reprint book. Go to the INK information section from the main menu to find out about back issues and the reprint book. Msg#:24056 *INK* 10/14/89 20:25:22 From: JERRY BLACK To: ED NISLEY (Rcvd) Subj: INKNET Very well done series, Ed! I've got a similar networking scheme, using the clocked, half-duplex serial I/O feature of the 647180. Loads of fun. I run it at a 28 microsec/byte rate (300 kBaud) with no problems, using the same 75176 chip. I remain a big fan of INK's practical style, it often parallels the stuff I'm trying to do, I get lots of insights from you guys. Msg#:24108 *INK* 10/16/89 11:41:12 From: ED NISLEY To: JERRY BLACK (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 24056 (INKNET) Thanks! How many of you folks out there have solved the networking problem on way or the other? We should have a survey article listing all the options! Msg#:24133 *INK* 10/17/89 03:45:25 From: MIKE WAROT To: ALL Subj: ASIC COSTS What are the current costs of having a custom chip made ? Just curious. Msg#:24141 *INK* 10/17/89 09:00:51 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: MIKE WAROT (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 24133 (ASIC COSTS) It depends entirely on the manufacturing process, the density, the functions, and the manufacturer. And it's certainly too broad a question to get a simple answer to. I'd suggest fully defining exactly what it is you want on the chip, then talk to some chip makers. Nobody here is going to have a magic number for you that will be valid in all cases. Msg#:24158 *INK* 10/17/89 19:59:05 From: JIM OSLISLO To: ALL USERS Subj: MONITOR VIDEO CIRCUITRY Does anyone know of a circuit to convert a composite video signal back to it's original parts. I am trying to use an IBM b/w monitor with a Commodore C64 and would appreciate any help with this. Msg#:24169 *INK* 10/18/89 09:58:24 From: BRUCE W. CASE To: ED NISLEY (Rcvd) Subj: INKNET Ed, Enjoying your articles about a reasonable cost network for a reasonably prices controller package. I have been using the OPTOWARE network hardware for some time and have been reasonably happy except that for many things it is overkill. The RTC board really needs opto-isolation to make it acceptable in a factory style environment. You wouldn't believe some of the ground loop potentials I run into stringing this stuff around factories. The problem with opto-isolating input/outputs is that you still have a weak spot via the power supply. Any ideas about getting around this. I plan on piggy backing an opto board on the RTC hardware as a necessity for the stuff I am doing. Question #2: Have you had a chance to use Avocet's Pascal for the 8031? I am using a Basic compiler called "BXC51" from Binary Technology which seems to work although a bit slowly. I would much prefer Pascal than Basic but don't know if I want to spring for it. Question #3: Any idea why the PORT1 statement on the new Micromint CMOS 8052-Basic doesn't work but locks up the interpreter? Thanks again for the good articles. Msg#:24200 *INK* 10/19/89 10:15:57 From: ED NISLEY To: BRUCE W. CASE (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 24169 (INKNET) We'd done a chalk talk on opto isolation around here and concluded exactly the same thing you did... 2.5 KV isolation is easy until you realize that the power supply transformers are good to about 600 V. We don't know any good way around it, either, but an optoisolation board is in the works (no more details, so don't ask!). PORT1 works just fine and I use it all the time. Do you have some hardware hanging on the pins that will give you trouble? If you're using one of the BCCs, make sure you aren't changing any of the lines that control things like ALE! If you're using an RTC, there isn't anything on the pins and you've got problems elsewhere... reduce the code to a one-liner and tell us more. Msg#:24178 *INK* 10/18/89 14:52:38 From: FOSTER SCHUCKER To: GILBERT A> MACKALL (Rcvd) Subj: PSEUDO EPROM Add a pseudoEPROM to the RTC52 One of the features of this version of 8052-BASIC is the ability to program EPROMs with the addition of a small amount of support circuity. Steve has written about this, and the BCC52 board is an example of the final circuit. The ability to program EPROMS means that you can write a program and store it for later use. You can also program the EPROM so that a saved program is executed on a reset or power up. On the RTC52 board there is not enough room to add the circuity to support EPROM programming. While it is possible to build an expansion card with an EPROM programmer on it, we chose a chose a slightly different approach. Dallas Semiconductor makes a range of products that give you battery backed up RAM. The RAM will retain information for about 10 years without any additional power applied. For our purposes, ten years will be long enough. We can use these devices as pseudoEproms (pEPROMS). They are programmable, will retain data when powered off and can be erased. The two products that we looked at are the nonvolatile SRAMs and the SmartSockets. The nonvolatile SRAMs are a stands SRAM with an embedded lithium energy source. When Vcc drops below 4.5 volts the lithium source takes over. They come in a variety of sizes from the DS1225 8K x 8 to the DS1235 32K x 8. The SmartSocket is a standard socket with a lithium power source and a support chip. You plug in a low power SRAM and you have the same thing as the nonvolatile SRAMs. The DS1213C SmartSocket will accept either 8K or 32K SRAMs. You can also get the DS1216C which also has a battery backed clock. We chose to add SmartSockets to our boards. If you've already assembled your board then the nonvolatile SRAM would be a better choice. Removing an already installed socket from the RTC board seems to be a risky proposition. In addition the SRAM could be moved to another system, without loss of the program information. Logic Changes Two logic changes need to be made. First is the control of the data/address latch. During programming, BASIC treats I/O port 0 and I/O port 2 as I/O ports, not as address/data ports. BASIC first writes the low order address to be programmed into port 0. The data is then latched by the 74HCT373. BASIC then writes the high order address to port 2, and the data to port 0. There needs to be a way to tell the difference between the low order address and the data. BASIC uses pin P1.3 to disable ALE by clearing P1.3. To do this AND the ALE and the ALE DISABLE (P1.3) signals to control the latch. Only during EPROM programming is P1.3 placed in a logical low state. We used the first AND gate (pins 1,2,3) to perform this process. The second change needed is to supply a write pulse to the pEPROM. During a normal write, WR/ is used to signify that a write is taking place. EPROMs do not have a write pin, they use a PGM/ pin. Pin P1.4 supplies the programming pulse. We need to OR this signal with WR/. We can use the fourth AND gate to perform this function. When dealing with active-low or low-true logic an AND gate will act like an OR gate. --- More next message --- Msg#:24179 *INK* 10/18/89 14:55:04 From: FOSTER SCHUCKER To: GILBERT A> MACKALL (Rcvd) Subj: MORE PSEUDO EPROM Pseudo EPROM cont. Assembly instructions To add a pseudo EPROM you will need wire wrap wire, a small soldering iron, small pliers and a wire wrap tool. First, install the SmartSocket or nonvolatile RAM in location U8. Test the board out to make sure it still works before proceeding. Remove U2, the 74HCT373 latch. Bend pin 11 (EN) into a U shape until it points up. Replace U2 in it's socket. Remove U5, the 74HCT08 quad AND gate. Bend pins 1,2,3 and 11, 12, 13, the two spare gates into a U shape. Replace U5 in it's socket. One easy connection method is to use the chip pins the same as wire wrap pins. Wrap the connections and then tack them with solder. The solder ensures a tight, permanent connection. We chose to wire wrap connections at the expansion bus, rather than soldering direct to the board. This allows removal of the modification by replacing the buffer and glue chips and removing the wires. Placing the wraps low on the expansion bus (JP 15) will not bother the expansion card connections. Connect Pin 1 - U5 to pin 7 - JP 15 (p1.3 - ALE disable) Pin 2 - U5 to pin 24 - JP 15 (ALE) Pin 3 - U5 to pin 11 - U2 (EN) Connect Pin 11 - U5 to pin 2 - JP 11 (write) Pin 12 - U5 to pin 1 - JP 11 (size/type) Pin 13 - U5 to pin 8 - JP 15 (p1.4 - Prog pulse) Tack solder the pins on U2 and U5. Bend them down so they will not touch any expansion boards. Check the connections, and power up. The board should work as before. Your pEPROM is now ready for use. Software setup Our boards are set up with an 8K RAM in U9. U8 has been set up to address 2000H, 8000H, A000H and C000H. This gives us 16K of program space and 24K of program file storage. If your set up is different then you will need to make adjustments in the following program. To 'erase' the pEPROM you need to write 0FFh in all the locations. The following program does that. 10 FOR I = 8000H TO 0DFFFH 20 XBY(I) = 0FFH 30 NEXT I This program takes about 1 minute to run. You can use this program any time you want to erase the pEPROM. To save a program enter FPROG. The system will return the number of the program saved. FPROG is the fast programming option. You can use PROG, it just takes longer. Entering PROG2 sets up the pEPROM so that when the system is reset, the first program in pEPROM is copied to RAM and executed. There are a number of other options that are available. They are described in the MCS BASIC-52 User's Manual. You must be very careful with any programming of P1.3 and P1.4. Remember they now control the latch and the write line. Care should also be taken that you do not accidentally erase your programs in the pEPROM. y a write pulse to the pEPROM. During a normal write, WR/ is used to signify that a write is taking place. EPROMs do not have a write pin, they use a PGM/ pin. Pin P1.4 supp Good luck! Foster Schucker and Nick Luzeski Msg#:24189 *INK* 10/19/89 05:56:56 From: GILBERT A> MACKALL To: FOSTER SCHUCKER (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 24179 (MORE PSEUDO EPROM) THANKS THATS ALOT TO READ WILL TRY IT OUT AND LET YOU KNOW HOW IT WORKS. It may take a week or two to respond, I start a Statics class next week and don't know when I'll have time between school and work. Msg#:24237 *INK* 10/20/89 08:45:28 From: FOSTER SCHUCKER To: GILBERT A> MACKALL (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 24189 (MORE PSEUDO EPROM) Ok, let me know if you have questions. I have two of the RTC's wired up that way and it seems to work well... Msg#:24216 *INK* 10/19/89 16:31:45 From: GORDON VANDENBURG To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 22328 (8088 BOARD FROM INTEL) HI. WHAT TIME FRAME ARE WE LOOKING AT FOR THAT XT CARD. ANYONE KNOW OF A SOLID STATE DISK THAT MIGTH WORK WITH THIS CARD? Msg#:24447 *INK* 10/27/89 12:22:02 From: STEVE CIARCIA To: GORDON VANDENBURG (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 24216 (8088 BOARD FROM INTEL) Haven't the foggiest. The AT card is first that that is available now. --Steve Msg#:24282 *INK* 10/22/89 03:29:08 From: GENE KELTON To: ALL Subj: POWER CURRENT CARRIER I would like to work with someone interested in developing an integrated module or modules for use in providing device control and monitoring by using a remote computer and modem access with CEbus technology. I have contacted AISI here in Calif. and they are waiting for the EIA standards to be confirmed before providing any information on their SPIRIT chip, which is my current choice. I have also investigated using the XECOM modem chip. I want to use a MAC computer and multiple graphical windows to provide monitoring status to the operator. Send me a reply and we can visit some more about this. I hope that there will be more application articles in INK after the dust settles, but I have an application that I would like to get started on as soon as possible. Msg#:24372 *INK* 10/25/89 03:58:54 From: ERIC R. BENTON To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: OCT/NOV INK 386SX MOTHERBOARD Steve, I really enjoyed that article on the 386. Will there be a formal project so we can actually build an sx motherboard? Msg#:24375 *INK* 10/25/89 08:09:24 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: ERIC R. BENTON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 24372 (OCT/NOV INK 386SX MOTHERBOARD) Um, how do you define a "formal" project? I always thought that giving you the complete schematic plus a description of the circuit constituted a "project." If you're asking if there will be a kit for the board that is being presented, the answer is "no." Chances are that a kit couldn't be offered at a price that is competitive with the glut of Taiwanese clones on the market, so only a handfull of people would ever buy it. Msg#:24714 *INK* 11/03/89 23:25:54 From: ERIC R. BENTON To: KEN DAVIDSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 24375 (OCT/NOV INK 386SX MOTHERBOARD) Ken, Iwas kind of hoping for a kit but if like you say the price could not be competitive then I guess it wouldn't be worthwhile. The big stumbling block to building one seems to be the circuit board itself. I mean, I just don't have any way to get one built or even to buy an empty one. that is unless I want to spend a couple of grand on software and have someone build me just 1. But it is an interesting discussion. Eric. Msg#:24503 *INK* 10/29/89 15:59:12 From: ROBERT POWELL To: ALL Subj: TECH TIP CARDS I just received my first deck of INK "bingo" cards and I was wondering if a soft copy of the Tech Tip cards was available. I'm trying to keep down the ammount of paper information I have laying around here and thought that the Tech Tips would be perfect for having in some type of database. Thanks. R. L. Powell Msg#:24518 *INK* 10/30/89 10:50:40 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: ROBERT POWELL Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 24503 (TECH TIP CARDS) But how would you do the schematics, pinouts, and other diagrams that are on them? While some are redrawn, others aren't on-line in any form. The amount of information on each card is small compared to the effort it would take us to put them on-line, so I doubt it will ever be done. Besides, the purpose of putting them in is to make you look through the deck. If you could just download them, it would be counterproductive. Msg#:24523 *INK* 10/30/89 14:29:14 From: EMERSON MORSE To: ALL Subj: X-10 TW523 I finally got the TW523 a year after hearing about it. I've use the PL513 a lot with my IBM XT286 and IBM M50. I want to use the TW523 but I don't have any code to interface it like I did for the transmit unit. I got that code from this BBS and it worked fine as long as I modified it to not search for the last logical printer port since the Model 50 has 4 logical but only one physical printer port. Anyway, HELP does anyone know anybody who is doing what I want to do? X-10 isn't much help, they refer me back here. I guess there's code around for the Micromint stuff, which is great if you have one, and I might some day, but for now all I have is the IBM stuff. HELP! Also, I have had some of the Stanley Lightmaker modules (IR detectors which send out X-10 codes). I've have 3 out of 3 fail so far (inter- mittent turning on or turning off of, usually, the unit's own lights, somtimes of other modules; but the IR detect part always works). Has anyone had similar experiences or does anyone know of another company marketing a more reliable unit? Thanks! Msg#:24526 *INK* 10/30/89 16:46:20 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: EMERSON MORSE (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 24523 (X-10 TW523) About all I can suggest is to look at the article I did in issue #5 of INK and pore over the code I did for the BCC180 (it's in the files area under issue #5). The main reason why I didn't do code for the IBM PC is that you really need to have the zero-crossing detector tied to an interrupt line if you're going to have an efficient system. If you don't use interrupts, you end up sitting in a polling loop waiting for activity to happen on the power line and you never get anything else done. And to get to the interrupts, you have to be on the bus (unless the ACK line on the printer port generates an interrupt--I hadn't thought of that at first). The purpose of the article was to introduce you to the module and show you some sample code. The rest is up to you... Msg#:24568 *INK* 10/31/89 14:23:59 From: EMERSON MORSE To: KEN DAVIDSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 24526 (X-10 TW523) OK, thanks. If I did use the polling method, then, are you saying the interface would be easier? If the program/computer isn't doing a whole lot "else", maybe that would work, do you think? As far as the printer port generating an interrupt, I'll see if I have anything on that. Msg#:24603 *INK* 11/01/89 08:49:21 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: EMERSON MORSE Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 24568 (X-10 TW523) What good is devoting an entire IBM PC system to sitting there listening to the power line and not much else? As I said, in order for the receive capability of the TW523 to be of any use, it has to be tied into an interrupt line. Msg#:24664 *INK* 11/02/89 10:48:14 From: ED NISLEY To: EMERSON MORSE Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 24568 (X-10 TW523) There is an interrupt on the printer port, guys... it's the lowest priority one in the system, but it works just fine. Because it's low priority, it can be preempted by other interrupts and that may goof up the precise timing you need to locate the X10 signal just after the zero crossing. On the other hand, X10 transmissions are so noisy that you need good error detection anyway... this is just one more reason that you might not "hear" a signal. So, hey, who's gonna write the TSR that hooks the printer interrupt first? Msg#:24532 *INK* 10/30/89 20:39:16 From: MARK NORTHUP To: EDITOR Subj: ADVERTISERS I hate when that happens !!! I hate being treated like a small fish, (even if I am) by someone who's no big fish themselves..... It bothers me when I call up a company to order something, after considering at some length the price and usefulness (and thinking up something to tell the wife), only to be led a merry chase by every person I speak with... "This only works in that machine IF"... Finally, I try to speak with a technical person hoping that maybe we can communicate a little better being closer to the same wavelength. And after several long distance phone calls I do indeed happen to catch someone of that description, only to hear, "I don't know if we ever did get that to work", then, "This would be a good time to ask and find out. I'll get back to you tomorrow". Now a week and two more calls on my phone bill (to someone too busy to talk), I know no more than when I started this !!! ....Now to my reason for writing ,,, The company I refer to in this instance is one of your advertisers, COVOX Inc. Their ad on page 72 advertises a voice recognition system for "PC/compatibles" AND "Tandy 1000 system". The end result of my first phone call was to have sent to me their brochure on the system, which ALSO advertised the less expensive option for the Tandy 1000, complete with part number and price and installation comments. Thru my beloved CCI magazine and their own literature this company advertises a product they don't have .... Then they try to sell the somewhat higher priced system. Isn't there something illegal somewhere in this ??? Isn't advertising something that's not available fraud ? This sure isn't the only time I've run into this. I don't know what or if there is anything you (or I) may be able to do about this, but ,,,, I feel better now . Thanks , Mark Northup Msg#:24536 *INK* 10/30/89 23:13:57 From: STEVE SAMPSON To: MARK NORTHUP (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 24532 (ADVERTISERS) You might call their BBS 503-342-4135, I have the PC Plug in card and it works fine. Are you saying they don't produce or have available the Tandy 1000 software package? You were so mad you forgot to tell us what you want to buy. So far I got what I ordered, drew my schematics, and wrote some software. If you want something else, they will even design and sell that to you. I haven't had any problems, but I didn't ask any questions. I saw where the hardware would save me time, and ordered. It digitizes, it stores, it speaks... Msg#:24537 *INK* 10/30/89 23:19:42 From: STEVE SAMPSON To: MARK NORTHUP (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 24532 (ADVERTISERS) oops, I reread your message. That would be bad indeed if they don't have the Tandy option and are trying to entice you upwards. The 150 buck system won't work in a Tandy though I thought. Did you ask them when they plan to ship? I've found them OK in the PC card option though. Msg#:24552 *INK* 10/31/89 09:39:12 From: CURT FRANKLIN To: MARK NORTHUP (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 24532 (ADVERTISERS) Mark - If you (or any of our readers) have a problem with a Circuit Cellar INK advertiser, we most certainly are interested. Here's what you do: After trying to resolve the problem (as you have tried to do) send a letter detailing the problem, how you tried to solve it, and the response from the company, to me. I will take the issue to the publisher, and we will then take it to the company. Now, two thaings are important to note: First, there's no guarantee that we will be able to make things better. We can let a company know that they are upsetting a reader, and that we don't like upset readers, but we can't make any promises as to results. Second, no publication within its right collective mind knowingly accepts (or continues to accept) advertising that is fraudulent or disturbing to its readership. There are steps that can be taken if the situation justifies them. Send the letter to: Curtis Franklin, Jr. Editor in chief Circuit Cellar INK 4 Park St. Vernon, CT 06066 Thanks. Curt Msg#:24564 *INK* 10/31/89 13:16:00 From: MARK NORTHUP To: STEVE SAMPSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 24536 (ADVERTISERS) Sorry I got off on a tangent and all perturbed....I wanted to order their Voice Master Key system for my Tandy 1000SL.This option is advertised both in CCi magazine and in their own flyer.It's a separate option, requiring only their software package, since the 1000SL already has the hardware built in. But COVOX doesn't sell that package .... It just bothered me at first because I was disappionted that this seemed to be an intelligent use of a particular (my) systems hardware.Th ere's still lots of possibilities out there ... cya later,Mark Msg#:24565 *INK* 10/31/89 13:23:28 From: MARK NORTHUP To: CURT FRANKLIN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 24552 (ADVERTISERS) Thank you for quick reply, Curtis... I may, indeed want to pursue this somewhat.Tho I'm not sure at this point, how far.At the moment I'm just kinda fed up and sick and tired of this sort of practice ... I think I'll just chill out awhile and consider your option. Thanks again,Mark Msg#:24588 *INK* 10/31/89 23:48:10 From: STEVE SAMPSON To: MARK NORTHUP (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 24564 (ADVERTISERS) That's what I thought you said. Vaporware, kills a lot of otherwise good companies. Did they say when their going to deliver? It is a lot cheaper to go that route with the Tandy though. Msg#:24605 *INK* 11/01/89 08:56:02 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: MARK NORTHUP (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 24565 (ADVERTISERS) Just as a side note, and not to excuse their behavior, but Covox has been around for many years, and if they made a habit of pissing off customers, they wouldn't still be around. No company can please every customer all of the time. If every company's reputation were based on the complaints of a few dissatisfied customers, you wouldn't have many reputable companies left in this world. Msg#:24619 *INK* 11/01/89 13:10:23 From: MARK NORTHUP To: STEVE SAMPSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 24588 (ADVERTISERS) Without explictly saying so I got the impression they considered this option dead but didn't want to pull the plug yet.They did say tho that they didn't expect the Tandy version to ever be available.It's good to know tho that they DO have other worthwhile products, as you said....I'm still thinking about calling again if only to try to get some final word ...Oh well... later,Mark Msg#:24620 *INK* 11/01/89 13:21:01 From: MARK NORTHUP To: KEN DAVIDSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 24605 (ADVERTISERS) I agree, wholeheartedly Ken. I'm sure that it's a case of left hand - right hand and I'm still impressed at their sensitivity to buyers who want to use the abilities of their non-IBM machines instead of duplicating hardware ... My ONLY complaint is that their advertising is apparently running behind their product line, leaving a few customers left wanting,disappointed and (dare I say) betrayed. But as you they must have something to offer or they wouldn't still be around. ,,, have a good 1, Mark Msg#:24559 *INK* 10/31/89 11:06:25 From: STEVE CIARCIA To: RICH KOWALSKI (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 24543 (DISKLESS WORKSTATION) Most motherboard ATs always expect disk drives. Expansion board form factor ATs like the OEM-286 and the new T-286 do not expect drives and will run without them. --Steve Msg#:24622 *INK* 11/01/89 19:14:59 From: TRACEY COLLIER To: STEVE CIARCIA Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 24559 (DISKLESS WORKSTATION) How do you load your application program w/o drives (or is that a stupid question?)? TJC Msg#:24573 *INK* 10/31/89 18:04:14 From: PATRICK W. GOUX To: STEVE C. OR MARK VOORHEES Subj: RGB 2 NTSC Will the RGBI to NTSC converter support mode 13 VGA (320 x 200 x 256)? Msg#:24606 *INK* 11/01/89 09:08:26 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: PATRICK W. GOUX Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 24573 (RGB 2 NTSC) Your basic problem is that VGA puts out analog RGB and not digital RGBI like the converter uses. If that mode uses standard 15.xxx-kHz horizontal scan rate and you can bypass the TTL inputs, then it could probably be made to work. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ This installment of Circuit Cellar BBS on Disk covers both issues 13 and 14 of Circuit Cellar INK. As you begin reading, you will notice a block of missing messages. Due to an unfortunate combination of circumstances involving the BBS software, we lost all the BBS messages posted during December '89 and January '90. This is, therefore, a culmination of all the messages remaining which were posted during November '89 and February '90. We apologize for any inconvenience the missing messages may cause. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Msg#:24595 *INK* 11/01/89 01:56:53 From: CHUCK DAVIS To: ALL Subj: AMIGA :::::::::::::::::: : AMIGA : :::::::::::::::::: Here are some of the many ways Amiga computers are currently being used: - Strategic Defense Organization Headquarters, (SDI): Amigas are used for missile attack-and-defense simulation. - Stanford Linear Accelerator Center: Amigas are used as intelligent text/graphics terminals. Software developed in-house allows connection to VAXs, IBM mainframes, networks, and Cray supercomputers. - Martin-Marietta Corporation: As part of what was reportedly "the largest government project ever bid" (the FTS 2000 telephone network), the company augmented its four million dollar video system with six basically stock Amiga A2000s as graphic workstations. These were used to create and display over 1,800 images in about six weeks. The final presentation was in a room specially designed for the project, using two ten foot diagonal high-resolution monitors driven by the same Amiga 2000s used for the graphics creation. - Palomar Observatory (Cal Tech), Hale Telescope: Amigas are used to calibrate Charged-Coupled Device cameras that are the "mainstay astronomical-recording media". Plans are being implemented to use an Amiga to control the Hale Telescope itself. - UCLA School of Medicine, Brain Imaging Research Center: Amigas are used to combine different imaging technologies into a "comprehensive view of the human brain". Also used at UCLA in studying human body motion by other researchers. - National Vision Research Laboratory: Amigas are used in researching vision, vision equipment, and vision testing. - Harvard University / Carpenter Center for Film and Animation: Amigas used for animation/film work. - University of North Dakota / Center for Aerospace Sciences: In the Aircraft Icing Research program, an Amiga is used in a Citation Jet as an intelligent graphics terminal for a mini-computer, to guide the pilot in cloud study maneuvers. - Atomic Energy Commission / Lawrence Livermore Labs: Amigas used as intelligent front ends to Cray super-computers. - NASA research laboratories: Amigas used in networking environments by five different groups. - SIGGRAPH: Three of 200 winners of a national computer animation contest were done on Amigas. - International Computer Animation Festival: nation-wide distributed movie of computer animation. One of the 10 animations shown was done on an Amiga 1000 using Aegis Animator. - Ohio State University / Advanced Computing Center for Arts and Design: networked workstations for Cray super-computer-generated Animation Production Environment Project. - National Broadcasting Company (NBC): Amigas used in staging, simulation and design of projects. Graphics for "Amazing Stories" opening scene first designed on an Amiga. - American Broadcasting Company (ABC): Amigas were used to produce nearly all background graphics for the last season of "Max Headroom". Amigas used in set design and composition on a regular basis. - B.B.King, Frank Zappa, Talking Heads, Bruce Springsteen (and many other musicians): Amigas used in music composition & stage performance. - Over 400 cable television companies use Amigas for broadcasting and work. - Apple Computer,Inc.: Msg#:24607 *INK* 11/01/89 09:20:34 From: CURT FRANKLIN To: CHUCK DAVIS (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 24595 (AMIGA) OK, Amiga's are reasonably nice machines with good graphics, decent horsepower, and a (sorta, kinda stable) multitasking operating system. What's the point of the message? (Said message having been apparently cut off in the middle.) Curt Msg#:24642 *INK* 11/02/89 08:47:52 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: CURT FRANKLIN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 24607 (AMIGA) This is a good example of why people should learn how to use the eply command. There was a discussion a while back where Amigas were brought up, and I think that is why Chuck posted the message. If his message had been a reply to one of the older messages, you could have pressed <-> and seen one of the original messages. Since the message was posted as the start of a thread with the nter command, it's kind of sitting out in left field without a purpose. Msg#:24680 *INK* 11/03/89 02:45:35 From: CHUCK DAVIS To: CURT FRANKLIN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 24607 (AMIGA) Well, I kinda botched the message!:+> But what I guess I was trying to say is that I personally feel that an experimenter, using an Amiga 2000 as platform, saves hour of hassle building a 68000 system for experiments. Coupled with PC support, Circuit Cellar type stuff can happen quickly :-) BTW; I am 80% finished with a 100% assembly lang port of HAL4. It's been tough but educational. Msg#:24681 *INK* 11/03/89 02:49:37 From: CHUCK DAVIS To: KEN DAVIDSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 24642 (AMIGA) Tnx, Ken:-) My realtime typing is too slow and expensive. I'll be better prepared in the future. Just now getting used to uploading ASCII text. ChuckD.... Msg#:24692 *INK* 11/03/89 09:54:38 From: CURT FRANKLIN To: CHUCK DAVIS (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 24680 (AMIGA) Ah, now that makes sense. I agree, for an experimenter the Amiga 2000 could be a fine platform for a lot of work. The Amiga series is powerful and has what are probably the best out-of-the-can graphics capabilities of any mass-market computer. Unfortunately the Amiga has had three serious difficulties to overcome: Early instabilities with the OS (now largely, if not completely, fixed); A parent company (Commodore) which has given no evidence of possessing any marketing ability; and the weight of the combined MS-DOS/Macintosh juggernaut. By the way, keep us posted on the HAL-4 software: The combintation could be pretty impressive! Curt Msg#:24773 *INK* 11/06/89 04:11:32 From: CHUCK DAVIS To: CURT FRANKLIN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 24692 (AMIGA) Hi Curt... I'm just creating a carbon copy of the original demo; except that it will be using a 68k version of Fast Hartley Xform. The firmware, AmiDos 1.2 is stable enuff for most lab work IMHO :-) Look out for the new A3000 w/68030 @25mHz ChuckD.... Msg#:24775 *INK* 11/06/89 07:40:23 From: JERRY BLACK To: CHUCK DAVIS Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 24680 (AMIGA) And what's REALLY great about Amigas is that the A500 (a little over 500 bucks) has virtually all the functionality of the fancier machine! I hope this well-kept secret gets out, so it won't disappear! Maybe Tip O'Neill and his chicken leg can save it. Msg#:24603 *INK* 11/01/89 08:49:21 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: EMERSON MORSE (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 24568 (X-10 TW523) What good is devoting an entire IBM PC system to sitting there listening to the power line and not much else? As I said, in order for the receive capability of the TW523 to be of any use, it has to be tied into an interrupt line. Msg#:24664 *INK* 11/02/89 10:48:14 From: ED NISLEY To: EMERSON MORSE (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 24568 (X-10 TW523) There is an interrupt on the printer port, guys... it's the lowest priority one in the system, but it works just fine. Because it's low priority, it can be preempted by other interrupts and that may goof up the precise timing you need to locate the X10 signal just after the zero crossing. On the other hand, X10 transmissions are so noisy that you need good error detection anyway... this is just one more reason that you might not "hear" a signal. So, hey, who's gonna write the TSR that hooks the printer interrupt first? Msg#:25188 *INK* 02/06/90 12:58:49 From: DAVE FILICICCHIA To: EMERSON MORSE Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 24523 (X-10 TW523) I have a unit made by Heathkit / Zenith but have not tried it out yet. Msg#:24605 *INK* 11/01/89 08:56:02 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: MARK NORTHUP (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 24565 (ADVERTISERS) Just as a side note, and not to excuse their behavior, but Covox has been around for many years, and if they made a habit of pissing off customers, they wouldn't still be around. No company can please every customer all of the time. If every company's reputation were based on the complaints of a few dissatisfied customers, you wouldn't have many reputable companies left in this world. Msg#:24620 *INK* 11/01/89 13:21:01 From: MARK NORTHUP To: KEN DAVIDSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 24605 (ADVERTISERS) I agree, wholeheartedly Ken. I'm sure that it's a case of left hand - right hand and I'm still impressed at their sensitivity to buyers who want to use the abilities of their non-IBM machines instead of duplicating hardware ... My ONLY complaint is that their advertising is apparently running behind their product line, leaving a few customers left wanting,disappointed and (dare I say) betrayed. But as you they must have something to offer or they wouldn't still be around. ,,, have a good 1, Mark Msg#:24619 *INK* 11/01/89 13:10:23 From: MARK NORTHUP To: STEVE SAMPSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 24588 (ADVERTISERS) Without explictly saying so I got the impression they considered this option dead but didn't want to pull the plug yet.They did say tho that they didn't expect the Tandy version to ever be available.It's good to know tho that they DO have other worthwhile products, as you said....I'm still thinking about calling again if only to try to get some final word ...Oh well... later,Mark Msg#:24606 *INK* 11/01/89 09:08:26 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: PATRICK W. GOUX Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 24573 (RGB 2 NTSC) Your basic problem is that VGA puts out analog RGB and not digital RGBI like the converter uses. If that mode uses standard 15.xxx-kHz horizontal scan rate and you can bypass the TTL inputs, then it could probably be made to work. Msg#:24622 *INK* 11/01/89 19:14:59 From: TRACEY COLLIER To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 24559 (DISKLESS WORKSTATION) How do you load your application program w/o drives (or is that a stupid question?)? TJC Msg#:24803 *INK* 11/06/89 10:31:05 From: STEVE CIARCIA To: TRACEY COLLIER (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 24622 (DISKLESS WORKSTATION) Diskless workstations usually have large ROM disks in place of the regular ones. I suppose, if you never turn off the power, you could temporarily attach a disk drive, load up the program to RAMdisk and then disconnect it. But, that isn't really diskless operation. --Steve Msg#:24816 *INK* 11/06/89 11:19:50 From: ED NISLEY To: TRACEY COLLIER (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 24622 (DISKLESS WORKSTATION) Almost by definition, a "diskless workstation" is connected to a local area network. The workstation BIOS knows enough to get its boot information from the LAN rather than a disk; there is a server on the LAN that responds to these boot requests with all the stuff you'd ordinarily get from a disk. Of course, without the LAN the "diskless workstation" is also a "workless workstation" but that's another topic... Msg#:24666 *INK* 11/02/89 12:44:49 From: ED NISLEY To: ALL Subj: FIRMWARE FURNACE The new year is fast approaching and that means the start of Firmware Furnace's Second Grand Anniversary! In the past two years I've covered topics ranging from switches to caches, with a few stops in between. What's up for the next year? Well, that's what I'd like to find out... what topics would _you_ like to see in Firmware Furnace for the next year or so? The usual groundrules apply: I'm not going to do hardware stuff unless it has some code attached, no software stuff unless it has hardware attached, and no pie in the sky technology stuff unless I see a real good reason. Is there anything left? Sure... here are some ideas that have come up in the last few weeks -- are any of interest? An 8051 programming tutorial (could take a few columns!) A review of the tools I use to develop programs More on keyboard, LED, LCD, etc hardware interfacing The long-awaited instruction timing articles (sigh!) Suggestions? Comments? Criticisms? Drop me a note and tell me, ah, where to go from here... Msg#:24776 *INK* 11/06/89 07:46:02 From: JERRY BLACK To: ED NISLEY (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 24666 (FIRMWARE FURNACE) Ed, I'd like to see an overview article on single-chip microcontrollers. I use the 647180, because of the 3 serial ports on chip. But I'm almost ignorant of the benefits of 8051s, et al. Basic ground rule should be true single-chip functionality: ROM, RAM on board. Erasability, a big plus, should be noted. Msg#:24800 *INK* 11/06/89 10:15:57 From: ED NISLEY To: JERRY BLACK Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 24776 (FIRMWARE FURNACE) OK, fair enough. The only catch is that I don't know enough about the variety of processors to speak from Real Knowledge on most of 'em. But maybe that's a good reason for me to start fiddling around with them! Is there anyone out there who has actually used more than, say, three different microcontroller families who would be willing to do a survey article? This could be your chance for fame and fortune! Msg#:24714 *INK* 11/03/89 23:25:54 From: ERIC R. BENTON To: KEN DAVIDSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 24375 (OCT/NOV INK 386SX MOTHERBOARD) Ken, Iwas kind of hoping for a kit but if like you say the price could not be competitive then I guess it wouldn't be worthwhile. The big stumbling block to building one seems to be the circuit board itself. I mean, I just don't have any way to get one built or even to buy an empty one. that is unless I want to spend a couple of grand on software and have someone build me just 1. But it is an interesting discussion. Eric. Msg#:24735 *INK* 11/04/89 17:33:09 From: PAUL SHUBEL To: MIKE WAROT Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 24133 (ASIC COSTS) I know your problem. You're just curious what a gate-area of most-often used density (like in the Atari ST) cost to develope and produce. I wish I could help you. The semi-companies are used to talking to "Director of engineering" types who make actual purchasing recomendations. Maybe a salesman will come onto this bbs. Msg#:24745 *INK* 11/04/89 21:14:25 From: JOE NOVOSEL To: ALL Subj: TW523 Has anyone done anything with the TW523 module? I know that it can be tricky to hook up to the PC. How about letting a dedicated processor (probable a single chip cpu) do the job and interface through the serial port (this would make it compatable with any computer with a serial port. Msg#:24833 *INK* 11/06/89 20:23:59 From: DAVE EWEN To: ED NISLEY (Rcvd) Subj: FIRMWARE FURNACE '90 Re: INK # 24666 suggestions Ed, How 'bout some furnace firmware! You could have an 8031 widget that hooks up to the furnace and keeps track of how long it's been on... have one of your timeline lcds showing current dollar cost since the beginning of the month.... maybe have it total costs for running the blower (electric) and burner (gas or electric) and maybe also connect to the water heater... -dave Msg#:24956 *INK* 11/09/89 14:41:00 From: ED NISLEY To: DAVE EWEN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 24833 (FIRMWARE FURNACE '90) As a matter of fact, once I dig myself out from under a few projects, that's the first thing on the list! We moved into a house with four heating zones, one of which goes to the office downstairs, another to the water heater (honest!), and two to the rest of the house. I'd like to know what fraction of the furnace run-time goes to the office so I can deduct the right part of the oil bill... so an RTC-52 with a clock/calendar board and an LCD display with a few buttons sounds just about right. (Hey, it's overkill, but I've got to do something with the pre-pre-production prototypes I mooched from Jeff, right?) Rest assured you'll see that one written up! Msg#:24848 *INK* 11/06/89 22:55:37 From: DANIEL L. MILLER To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: CC The last issue of cc I though was wonderful. ( I just chucked my last issue of byte. I save my cc's. ) Could anyone comment on how to protect a power supply from car surges, line dumps etc so we could hook our computers up to monitor car widgets and controls? is a simple choke, cap circuit enough protection? *s Msg#:24918 *INK* 11/08/89 11:31:52 From: STEVE CIARCIA To: DANIEL L. MILLER Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 24848 (CC) Generally speaking, I've had no problems using 5-volt stuff in cars. I use and LC filter off 12 volts for noise and then a 7805 regulator. The 70 db or so noise rejection of the regulator seems to take care of any transients on 12 volts that I've seen anyway. --STeve Msg#:24963 *INK* 11/09/89 15:19:48 From: ED NISLEY To: DANIEL L. MILLER Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 24848 (CC) I think these new-fangled eeeelectronic voltage regulators do a better job of controlling the "12 volt" supply. The old mechanical ones gave you a one or two kilovolt spike during load dumps... with a lot of power behind the voltage, too! Stick a low-value fuse in the line, too, so you don't wind up charring anything should the regulator object to a nasty transient. Msg#:24929 *INK* 11/08/89 19:00:19 From: TONY LEWIS To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: FEATURE ARTICLE Three quick questions: Will the 386SX series of articles result in the availablity of a kit or finished motherboard as described in the first article? What is your background in nuclear instrumentation? (I am a Mech and Nuclear Engineer). What do you think of the TMS340 Graphics processors as a stand alone micro for a computer? An applications engineer is sending the schematics for just such a computer. Msg#:24951 *INK* 11/09/89 12:12:22 From: STEVE CIARCIA To: TONY LEWIS (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 24929 (FEATURE ARTICLE) Sorry, there will be no CCI kit for the SX computer. However, the article IS based on a board designed by Intel that they may sell or offer the artwork for. Contact one of their field engineers or someone with technical knowledge at Intel. --Steve Msg#:24968 *INK* 11/09/89 15:35:23 From: ED NISLEY To: TONY LEWIS (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 24929 (FEATURE ARTICLE) Let me guess... the graphics micro will be running some perversion of UNIX, right? Sounds dopey to me. Why cut yourself off from the _whole_ _world_ of software in one fell swoop? Can it really be that much better than the second or third choice? Or is there something that this box does that requires such a processor that is, oh by the way, enough to handle the mundane stuff as well? Msg#:24986 *INK* 11/10/89 08:19:00 From: TONY LEWIS To: ED NISLEY Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 24968 (FEATURE ARTICLE) Well, my question was a rather innocent one concerning the capabilities of the 340x0 as a standalone micro. I have no idea whether the system would be UNIX or not. And I am not sure what 'whole world' of software that you are referring to, but that does not discourage others from looking at micros other than those produced by Intel or Motorola. Msg#:24987 *INK* 11/10/89 08:19:24 From: TONY LEWIS To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 24951 (FEATURE ARTICLE) Thanks. Msg#:24972 *INK* 11/09/89 20:47:32 From: JOE NOVOSEL To: ALL Subj: 687XX PGMR. I am looking for an inexpensive way to program 687xx chips. I don't have an eprom programmer now, so I would like to get one that will do those microprocessors also. It wouldn't be a bad idea to have the programmer do other micros (ie: intel types) also. Does anyone have any suggestions. I will be using this on my PC. I would like it to work with the serial port so I can use it with my portable also. Thanks in advance, Joe Novosel Msg#:24998 *INK* 02/01/90 18:54:24 From: BOB KRUGGEL To: INK STAFF Subj: RTC31MON Prior to the great message crash of Feb1, i was trying to get info on a monitor/debugger that I could use with BBC52. Someone suggested the RTC31MON advertised in issue 12 of INK from CCI. Can someone give me additional info as to capabilities? I want to debug code that is called from basic and possibly stand alone code as well. Along the same lines, is there a reason why you don't have a online detailed description of CCI hardware and software, as well as an ordering system? Sure would be nice to dial up, get the info, and place an order. Thanks, Bob Kruggel Msg#:25031 *INK* 02/02/90 09:02:07 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: BOB KRUGGEL (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 24998 (RTC31MON) Maybe we can get Ed in here to give us more details about the monitor. If you leave me your address, I can send you a brand new data sheet about the monitor. There are a few problems with having an on-line catalog and ordering. First, we'd have to get the catalog information into a form that is presentable on-line. With the vast number of products between Micromint and CCI, that would take quite a while. I sat down a few years ago to do just that, and it took me a week to get through just a third of the products. I just don't have the time. Second, we don't take on-line orders, and having a catalog on-line would imply that we did. That would just confuse and frustrate people wanting to place orders. We don't take on-line orders because this is an enginerring and support BBS and not a sales BBS. My biggest fear is that some turkey will leave an order with his credit card number in a public message for the whole world to see, and we don't want that. My feeling is that it takes less time to call and have a catalog mailed than to browse through a catalog on-line, and it takes less time to place an order by voice than on-line. Plus, having a human on the other end provides you with immediate feedback regarding latest price, shipping costs, and delivery time. Msg#:25048 *INK* 02/02/90 21:45:33 From: BOB KRUGGEL To: KEN DAVIDSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 25031 (RTC31MON) Ken, My address is: Bob Kruggel Rd 1 box 102 Jericho, Vt. 05465 I can appreciate your concerns, but I would still love to see the catalog on-line. Easy to say when I don't have to do it. Anyway, I'll settle for the info and hope it fits the bill. Thanks, BobK Msg#:25000 *INK* 02/01/90 20:04:49 From: TOM MORAN To: CURT FRANKLIN (Rcvd) Subj: CCINK #13 DSP ARTICLE The CCINK #13 article on Digital Signal Processing notes that the author's 8 Mhz 286 takes 14 milliseconds to process each new sample with a 15 tap filter. A little careful coding should come closer to 40 microseconds. If samples are 8 bits wide, the coefficient multiplications can be precalculated so 15 coefficients times each of 256 possible sample values gives 15*256=3840 values. If each value is 16 bits the table takes only 7680 bytes. For faster code, one can use a 16 tap filter where the 16th coefficient is zero and use a rotating buffer instead of actually moving the data about in memory. A code fragment to handle 1/16 of the operation is: sample buffer is at BUFFER where address(BUFFER) is a multiple of 16 initially: DI=NOT(16), AH=0, DX=0, SI=address of new sample in buffer ; 286 clocks AND SI,DI ; 2 keep SI in range BUFFER .. BUFFER+15 LODSB ; 5 get next sample into AL MOV BX,AX ; 2 BL=sample, BH=0 SAL BX,1 ; 2 BX=2*BX ADD DX,C1[BX] ; 7 DX=DX+coefficient1*sample ; duplicate this code for the other coefficients for a total of 18 clocks*16 taps=288 clocks @ 8 Mhz= 36 microseconds, about 1/5 the speed quoted for the 40Mhz TMS320C5. Even with generous allowances for sample input, filter output, initialization, and double precision (32 bit) accumulation, the 8 Mhz 286 should be able to easily process a sample in less than 125 microseconds, thus allowing an 8 KHz sampling rate for 'toll-quality speech'. Msg#:25035 *INK* 02/02/90 10:44:25 From: JOHN EBERLE To: ANYONE INTRESTED Subj: DSP INFO/INTEL HEX FORMAT I was delighted to see the article on DSP processing using the T.I. TMS320C25 in the latest issue of Circuit Cellar. I've been working on a DSP project for a couple of months, and have almost completed a compiler for either the 320C25 or the 320C20. If anyone is interested, it should be finished in the next 3 to 6 weeks (I'd be happy to make it available for the right price - FREE !). The project I'm working on deals with building a DSP for musical applications ( reverb, echo, flanging, limiting, ....etc). If anyone has any info or experience with this sort of thing I'd like to hear about it. As a matter of information. TI has a good bulletin board for their DSP products, you can even order DSP info. via your modem. The number is (713) 274-2323 N,8,1. My EPROM programmer requires files in an Intel Hex format. Does Anyone know where I can get specifications regarding the proper format. Also, because the 320C2X's use 16 bit instructions and data path, am I correct in assuming that I need to break up each instruction into a high byte and low byte. Then program one EPROM with the high byte and a second EPROM with the low byte portion of the program (I've only had experience with 8031's etc.). Msg#:25043 *INK* 02/02/90 13:38:40 From: CURT FRANKLIN To: JOHN EBERLE (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 25035 (DSP INFO/INTEL HEX FORMAT) After you get your application finished, why don't you send me a proposal for an article in Circuit Cellar INK? Your effects box sounds like just the sort of application that CCINK readers enjoy! Curt Msg#:25071 *INK* 02/04/90 05:50:08 From: BRUCE GRAHAM To: JOHN EBERLE (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 25035 (DSP INFO/INTEL HEX FORMAT) Seems to me there is a downloadable text file on this BBS on Intel Hex format. If not I'll upload one. You are correct in your perception that for a processor with a sixteen bit bus two proms are required. Some programmers are smart enough to do it, some assemblers/compilers/linkers are smart enough to do it; and last but not least you can write a nearly trivial program to read in one hex file and produce two output files or whatever seems appropriate. Bruce 8*) Msg#:25037 *INK* 02/02/90 12:11:39 From: SCOTT WOOD To: JOHN EBERLE (Rcvd) Subj: DSP/INFO John, I read your message concerning the work you're doing in DSP. Sounds like some real interesting stuff. Audio (sound/voice/music) applications for DSP are really hitting the big time in the consumer world. What's the nature of your project? I'm intrigued by the idea of a stand alone DSP based 'sound processor' that could be programmed to do almost anything to an input waveform (given the right algorithmn, of course!). another DSP fan, Scott Msg#:25192 *INK* 02/06/90 15:40:03 From: JOHN EBERLE To: SCOTT WOOD (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 25037 (DSP/INFO) Well Sott, I have quite a few things that I'd like to do digitally whith regard to processing audio. Most of the effects I'm after relate to the guitar. The ultimate processor would contain programs (somewhere between 50 and 100). Each program would let me choose varying configurations of distortion, compression, limiting, reverb, equalization ..... There are several companies marketing such products. If you want to see, or hear, them go by any good music store. Some of the better known brands are KORG and YAHAMA. Additionally, I'm going to start incorp. a MIDI interface (see the Dec (?) issue od Circuit Cellar Inc.). As you can see it will be quite an undertaking. As a starting point I'll simply hang a little memory and glue from a TI 320C25 to make sure my A/D and D/A are working properly. Later I'll begin refining my algorythims and user interface. I'll keep you posted if your intrested. John. Msg#:25044 *INK* 02/02/90 15:57:48 From: RICK BERUBE To: JON WILLIAMS (Rcvd) Subj: A GOOD 8031 PROGRAMMING BOOK I was able to teach myself the 8051 assembly language from a book titled "8051 Programming, Interfacing and Applications" written by Howard Boyet and Ron Katz. The book is published by MTI Publications, New York, NY, 10003, Copywrite 1982. The book steps through the 8051 instruction set in a logical and comprehensive way using practical experiments. Although the experiments were designed around Intel's SDK-1 trainer, all the source code for the programs are included and well documented by the narritive in each section. Even the source code for the SDK-1 firmware is included, although it isn't really necessary to understand any of the lessons. The book was written with no prior assembly experience assumed, so I'm sure even a novice assembly programmer will have no trouble understanding the lessons. If you wish to use your 80C52-BASIC as an 8031 you merely have to tie a pin (I believe its the EN pin {Pin 31}) to ground. This will bypass the on-chip Basic ROM and will allow you to boot from external ROM location 0000H. Note however, you really have an 8032 not an 8031! Not to worry, as this is to your advantage since the 8032 has an additional 128 bytes of on-chip RAM and an additional Counter/Timer over the 8031! The book above will not make mention of this since the 8052 was not available when it was published. After reading it however, you should be able to easily reference the "8051 Microcontroller Users Guide" without fear to fill in the gaps. Enjoy. Rick Berube Fall River, Ma Msg#:25053 *INK* 02/03/90 10:41:00 From: JON WILLIAMS To: RICK BERUBE (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 25044 (A GOOD 8031 PROGRAMMING BOOK) Rick, I must assume that you are responding to my letter that was published in the recent CCI - Thank you for your response. I enjoy working with the 8052 but am starting to get into time sensitive areas where interpretted BASIC (even at 12 MHz) is not going to work. Regards - Jon Williams Msg#:25180 *INK* 02/06/90 12:12:26 From: STEVE CIARCIA To: RICK BERUBE (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 25044 (A GOOD 8031 PROGRAMMING BOOK) Hold onto your BASIC code for a bit longer. Micromint will be offering an interger BASIC-52 compiler on or about April 1st (honest, folks). Jeff's preliminary experiments suggest that it is 15-20 times faster than the interpreter. --Steve Msg#:25045 *INK* 02/02/90 16:10:17 From: TOM NICKEL To: ALL Subj: TMS32010 Over the past few years, I have been developing several audio sampling type devices. I started with 12 bit AD/DAC's and a Z80 processor. My last project used an intel 86/05 board with a multi-bus back plane, one MEG of RAM and 16 bit AD. It is intended for "live" (real-time) musical instrument applications; primarily intended is for electric guitar. The most recent version can perform: multiple repeat echo, flanging, rotating speaker effects, backwards reconstruction, etc. and has a 45 second sample time. At any rate .. all my designs employs analog filtering. Of course, I'd like to use a TMS32010 because It's infinitely more fun, and the TASM27 cross assembler will assemble code for me. Anyone intersted in collaborating? Thanks .. Tom Nickel Msg#:25193 *INK* 02/06/90 15:47:22 From: JOHN EBERLE To: TOM NICKEL (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 25045 (TMS32010) Tom. I have a couple of messages laying around here regarding exactly the same subject. I am in the midst of writing a TI 320C20/25 compiler for just such an application. If your into guitar, like I am, then I'm sure you are familiar with the MULTIVERB etc. Thats the kind of thing I'm after. See if you can locate my messages. They were posted between 2/1 and 2/6. Keep in touch ! - John Msg#:25198 *INK* 02/06/90 21:14:34 From: TIEN-SENG CHIU To: TOM NICKEL (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 25045 (TMS32010) I'm very interested in DSP applications...especially large-scale (i.e. complex) ones. I'm working on a project right now that also will use TMS32010's for digital filtering..... I'm still at school at the University of Maryland, so I'm afraid I can't work "full-time" on any one thing, but it sounds like lots of fun! -Tien-Seng- Msg#:25211 *INK* 02/07/90 08:56:36 From: TOM NICKEL To: JOHN EBERLE Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 25193 (TMS32010) Sounds interesting .. I'll look for your messages! .. Msg#:25054 *INK* 02/03/90 10:58:14 From: TOM WATSON To: DEAN MCCONNELL Subj: FIR.BAS LINE 9 FROM BOTTOM OF LISTING IN BOTH THE CC INK MAGAZINE AND THE DOWNLOADED FILE READ "FOR N=1 TO 256" BUT I THINK IT SHOULD READ "FOR N=LENGTH TO 256", OTHERWISE THE PROGRAM ABORTS WITH "SUBSCRIPT OUT OF RANGE MESSAGE. Msg#:25084 *INK* 02/04/90 13:08:15 From: MARK BALCH To: ED NISLEY (Rcvd) Subj: LCD INITIALIZATION Hi Ed, I've started working with one of the LCDs sold by Timeline as you wrote about in INK #8 (or was it #9?). I've been having some trouble with it and I read your article again for some pointers. According to the Hitachi initialization flowchart in the LCD specs, the LCD is being initialized properly but when I try to write 16 characters to the display immediately after the init process, I get only 4 or 5 garbled characters. (I've downloaded LCDTEST.C for some help also) In your article you said that there may be some garbled characters in the beginning, so should I wait a full second between the initialization and sending any data? The time delays are no problem because, to be safe, I wait 0.25 seconds before sending each init byte. The article that you wrote was really great and it gave me the idea of using an LCD in the first place. Thanks alot! Bye...Mark Msg#:25190 *INK* 02/06/90 13:11:47 From: ED NISLEY To: MARK BALCH (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 25084 (LCD INITIALIZATION) Those "garbled" characters I mentioned came from using character codes defined in the Character Generator RAM (CGRAM) before it's initialized. The codes are 00 through 07 hex, so if you're using standard ASCII printable characters you shouldn't see anything untoward. If you're using a 4-line interface, you must make sure that you send both halves of the byte _every_ time, because otherwise the controller will get out of step with you. With an 8-line interface this isn't a problem, but in either case you've got to wait for the maximum possible busy time (a few milliseconds at worst) to avoid clobbering the controller. Can you run LCDTEST.EXE and get good results? If so, your code may be sending the wrong stuff, sending it at the wrong time, or using the wrong phase. I used a scope to check out the low-level code in LCDTEST; you may need to do the same... for the same reasons, too: what looks perfectly correct on the screen produces the oddest results on the wires. That's what makes this firmware stuff so interesting... there are _so_ many things that can possibly go wrong! Msg#:25251 *INK* 02/08/90 17:10:29 From: MARK BALCH To: ED NISLEY (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 25190 (LCD INITIALIZATION) Thanks alot for the suggestions. You are right about things looking good in the editor and not too great at all on the circuit itself. I'll just try hacking away at the problem till something clicks. The delays are definately not a problem because I've been using 1/4 of a second for them! (Mabye my short delays should be the same way?) Its articles like this one that make INK such a great magazine. Bye...Mark Msg#:25093 *INK* 02/04/90 19:37:00 From: ROBERT J. BELZ To: ANYONE Subj: INTERFACING PRINTER TO SERIAL PORT I have a Radio Shack printer/plotter "TRS-80 Color Graphic Printer: CGP-115" which is now discontinued. It uses a 4 inch roll and can print 80 columns as well as plot curves, circles, lines etc. It has both a serial and parallel port. I had it working as a serial device on my old computer (a non-IBM compatible). Now I would like to interface it with my Compaq Portable or my IBM S2 Model 30 (both with 8086 mpu). I would like to use the device with a serial port on one of my computers. I have tried with no luck so far. The printer serial port has three terminals: data, busy, and ground. I can find no connection that seems to work properly. The best I can get is a line of printing before I get a "device error" message. I need to know where to hook the "busy" line and what other lines need to be hooked up to satisfy the computer. Tandy dosen't seem to know the answer. I know someone out there does, and has probably done it with the device I am using. Any help is appreciated! Msg#:25130 *INK* 02/05/90 10:13:38 From: JEFF BACHIOCHI To: ROBERT J. BELZ (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 25093 (INTERFACING PRINTER TO SERIAL P) Robert, Seems to me that CTS would be the proper input for busy since this is the normal hardware handshake for serial connections. Knowing how tandy does things you might check to see that the polarity of busy is correct. The RS-232 input CTS should be ready high and busy low for proper operation. jeff Msg#:25139 *INK* 02/05/90 17:25:51 From: PAUL PETERSEN To: ROBERT J. BELZ (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 25093 (INTERFACING PRINTER TO SERIAL PO) robert, there are two sig groups that you might try to get your problem answered. both are on delphi. one is the Tandy group and the other is the PC Compatibles group sponsored by PCM magazine for tandy computers. mike salisbury [misal] is very helpful and monitors the forum for all messages. ---paul Msg#:25126 *INK* 02/05/90 09:49:30 From: NEIL CHERRY To: RANDY MERKEL Subj: REMOTE ANALOG DATA LOGGER Flex OS is an old operating system available first for the 6800 cpu then the 6809 and now the 68K family (Now know as SKDOS). I think its a little like CPM but I'm not sure since I don't use it. I prefer OS9/OSK, multitasking multiuser OS for 6809/68000. As for the assist09 I think it was originally developed for a motorola 6809 development board. Motorola may be the people to contact for the schematics. They're usually very helpful. NJC Msg#:25158 *INK* 02/06/90 03:22:38 From: MATTHEW TAYLOR To: TOM NICKEL (Rcvd) Subj: DIGITAL AUDIO Hello Tom, I'd be really interested in talking with you. I'm really interested in audio DSP. You're a musican too, huh. My first project was an 8 bit harmonizer. Then I messed around with a Z80 based digital delay with 32K SRAM. I really enjoy this stuff. What converters have you used. I just got Analog Devices new catalog last fall, and it looks like a lot of good stuff (for audio). Built in S/H, 100KHz+sample rates. Analog Devices has been EXTREMELY kind to me as a student. HAve you worked with any switched cap filters? Are you using separate boards for your digital and analog sections?? I was having some serious noise problems initially. A compander helped. Any advice? Finally, it has sort of been a secret dream of mine to work for some one like DigiTech, New England Digital, Roland. Have you ever considered that route? Really glad to meet you. Tell me more,please. Regards, Matt. Msg#:25210 *INK* 02/07/90 08:54:31 From: TOM NICKEL To: MATTHEW TAYLOR (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 25158 (DIGITAL AUDIO) Yeah .. I'm a musician too. Playing music kept me almost starving for several years until I went into electronics "full-time". The most recent project I've designed uses an Analogic MP2735 15-bit Sampling A/D Converter. Actually, I'd like to locate some other source for A/D converters .. I would think that by now, someone would be manufacturing a lower cost device, perhaps related to the type of technology utilized in CD players. No, I've haven't used any switched cap filters .. I've been using some "off-the-shelf" type filters. I forget the manufacturer .. I let you know who makes them if you're interested. I've used two different filters .. one type is micro "programmable" .. the other is a fixed multiple pole filter. (8? 16 poles? I'll have to look again before I write on of these letters.) Seperate boards for Analog and Digital? .. Absolutley! I really goofed up by trying to put everything on one board the first time. I've used the signetics companders (was that NE572? too many numbers to remember!). At any rate .. keep in touch. I'm always happy to share the any info I can .. Msg#:25308 *INK* 02/11/90 13:01:29 From: STAN EKER To: TOM CANTRELL Subj: I/O BENCHMARKS??? Howdy, Tom! Re your article in Ink #13, the reason there's no system I/O benchmark is 'cos there isn't a single piece of hardware you could benchmark against the profusion of processors, clock speeds and system busses. Try timing EGA screen updates on a Mac II, and you'll see what a silly idea it is. If you're talking disk-intensive I/O, you MIGHT be able to use a SCSI `standard' hard drive, but the benchmark is still questionable since any chip worth it's salt should be able to outrun the slow media. The only true test of a chip is something that's I/O independent, not reliant on relatively slow system resources. True, the benchmarks are gonna be esoteric and not necessarily related to reality, but it's at least some sort of legit comparison. That's why the current benchmarks are intensive floating-point operations - it's one thing everyone can do. If it's a true test, it should be optimized for the peculiar set of local instructions, and the results define how efficient the various chips are at ONE task. Too bad life is a profusion of grays. Msg#:25309 *INK* 02/11/90 13:02:20 From: STAN EKER To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: DIGITAL FOOLISHNESS Just read your last words from February - you might want to see the article in the Feb '90 Computer Shopper on a couple of new math coprocessor clones. Intel was whining that they didn't always agree on the 16th digit of the mantissa. Hell, we got to the moon and back on six digits of precision, and they're worried about a fantasy. In the wonderful world of electronics, anything beyond the fourth digit is a waste of time 'cos most of the instruments we use aren't that accurate, and we get along fine. Who are they fooling??? Msg#:25344 *INK* 02/12/90 10:20:05 From: STEVE CIARCIA To: STAN EKER (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 25309 (DIGITAL FOOLISHNESS) I still like 4 function calculators :-) --Steve Msg#:25352 *INK* 02/12/90 13:04:40 From: ED NISLEY To: STAN EKER (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 25309 (DIGITAL FOOLISHNESS) Well, there's accuracy and then there's consistency. The catch comes about when you run the same program on two different machines and come up with two different answers... Now, admittedly, one bit off 'way down there on the right may not seem important, but for folks that solve big equations with lots of iterative "feed the answer to this step back in for the next step" processing, that one little bit can add up to a major error after a while. The issue isn't that either answer is spot on, but that you know which way it's going wrong. For example, the IBM 360 architecture specified the outcome for floating point ops down to the bit... when the Models 91/92/195 came along, they needed a dispensation from Corporate to be off by just an itsy in the low order bits -- the designers couldn't say "Hey, we're building a killer machine and nobody will notice a few bits anyway" because they were designing to a specific set of requirements for _all_ 360 machines. Regardless of which one you picked, from the Model 25 on up, you were supposed to get the same answer. Msg#:25362 *INK* 02/13/90 00:05:06 From: STAN EKER To: ED NISLEY (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 25352 (DIGITAL FOOLISHNESS) Hi, Ed. If you're worried about accuracy, how do you know that INTEL did it right in the first place?? They're bitching about the clones, but they all follow the IEEE format for LSB handling, so who's the standard? Intel, just because they were first? Someone needs to take the trancendentals out to 18 or 20 places for any kind of real answer on that, and for most of us, it's a moot point. 95% of the folks using the coprocessor functions are doing simple floating-point, not the funky stuff. Msg#:25463 *INK* 02/16/90 11:37:28 From: ED NISLEY To: STAN EKER (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 25362 (DIGITAL FOOLISHNESS) What, me worried about accuracy? The ones _we_ should worry about are the financial rocket scientists who think their models reflect reality right down to the nth decimal... I bet there are lots of '87s chugging away under 123, building those financial predictions for the next decade. Msg#:25441 *INK* 02/15/90 20:36:42 From: JONATHAN CHATTIN To: ALL Subj: Z10 MODULE The file x10ibmpc.arc refers to an X10 module. Is this a special module or is it in a standard controller like Radio Shack's ? If special, what is source? Thanks. JMC. Msg#:25455 *INK* 02/16/90 10:07:21 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: JONATHAN CHATTIN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 25441 (Z10 MODULE) The module is a special computer interface module normally available only to OEMs. Call X-10 directly at (201) 784-9700 and ask about the PL513 module. Micromint also sells the module, cable, software, and manual as the BCX/PC. Call (800) 635-3355 to ask about that. Msg#:25472 *INK* 02/16/90 13:11:06 From: JONATHAN CHATTIN To: KEN DAVIDSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 25455 (Z10 MODULE) Thanks for the data. I will investigate further. JMC. Msg#:25474 *INK* 02/16/90 14:42:15 From: STEVE CIARCIA To: JONATHAN CHATTIN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 25441 (Z10 MODULE) Micromint sells the PL513 and the cable (it's an excessary for the RTC-LCD board) for $25 plus shipping. --Steve Msg#:25473 *INK* 02/16/90 13:57:56 From: JEFF BOLY To: ED NISLEY (Rcvd) Subj: SHARP LM-16155 LCD DISPLAYS Hello, I have been working on a project which requires the use of a 1x16 LCD display. I have read the existing Circuit Cellar articles on LCD displays and everything seems to be consistent with what my display does except for two of the commands. Thus I will appreciate any advice or insight from anyone who has used the Sharp Display. My Problem is that instruction 02 Hex the one that just homes the cursor prints a character that looks like four horizontal bars at location 0. Everything else works great. What is Wrong? Any help is appreciated, Thanks, Jeff Boly Msg#:25569 *INK* 02/19/90 12:47:48 From: ED NISLEY To: JEFF BOLY (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 25473 (SHARP LM-16155 LCD DISPLAYS) What it sounds like is that you're squirting an extra character to the display after the 02 hex code... remember that the first eight characters use the internal CG RAM, which you haven't initialized, so if you send codes 00 though 07 hex they'll turn into garbage. Check your program to make sure that you're sending the 02 as a command, not as data, too. I goof that up fairly often, so it's worthwhile to make sure that you haven't slipped a bit. Msg#:25506 *INK* 02/17/90 20:52:53 From: DAVE EWEN To: CURT FRANKLIN (Rcvd) Subj: #13 Curt, did I misplace my issue 13 or is it even out yet? Msg#:25553 *INK* 02/19/90 09:16:41 From: CURT FRANKLIN To: DAVE EWEN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 25506 (#13) Well, I don't know where you put your copy, but we mailed issue #13 during the last week of January. If you didn't get a copy, let me know and we'll try to track it down. Curt Msg#:25752 *INK* 02/23/90 12:58:38 From: RON WAGNER To: KEN DAVIDSON (Rcvd) Subj: DIGITAL FILTERS Ken, I have a question about one of the recent articles in CC. Does it get posted here? The question is about the latest article on digital signal processing. What algorithm was used to generate the coefficients for the high and low pass filters. Also was a window function used, and if so which one. Also a note to anyone trying to get the supplied program to work with BASICA, log10 is not a valid function. Instead substitute log(x)*log base 10 of e. (Something like .4...) Msg#:25835 *INK* 02/26/90 07:49:30 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: RON WAGNER (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 25752 (DIGITAL FILTERS) Hey, I just edit them, I don't claim to know every detail about every article. You should either post a message to the author (if he habitually logs on here), or send him a letter via U.S. mail. Msg#:25791 *INK* 02/24/90 16:19:39 From: DAN RAHME To: ED NISLEY (Rcvd) Subj: FUTURE ARTICLES ED, Just finished reading the latest INK and so I thought I'd stick in my 2 cents ( you asked for it! ). About ideas for upcoming articles-- how about a column or 2 devoted to the neophytes ( ie: beginners )? Yeah...I know the vets'll be snoring over those, but for some of us, a lot of the magazine content goes over our heads. Speaking for myself-- my background is in analog electronics and I've just started playing around w/ micros and cross-assemblers. I've taken the low dollar route and downloaded a bunch of pub. domain x-assemblers to play around with. Unfortunately, the docs aren't as good as they could be and I'm having trouble figuring out about some assembler directives ( ds,db,dw,org etc ). Maybe you could pick a x-assembler from the board here and discuss some in's and out's of using the assembler directives, as well as ideas such as relocatable code and whatever else comes to mind when thinking about this kind of thing. Speaking for myself and a friend who've been listening in on the board for awhile, we'd really appreciate it! If this sounds like a pretty good idea, I'd like to suggest you look into a pair of x-asmblrs that I submitted-( not written by me )--XASM80XX.arc and XASM68XX.ARC. Anyway....if you've read this far then maybe this idea has merit and so I'd like to throw in one more thing. Maybe you could explain ( in the same column ) in SIMPLE ENGLISH how to calculate Intel hex. ( Yes I've looked at Intelhex.arc on this board--its in the form of a Basic program ) Well.... I guess I've gotten my 2 cents worth so I'll pipe down now. Maybe others in my boat will see this msg and put in their suggestions.Thanx for listening. Dan Rahme Msg#:25800 *INK* 02/25/90 09:57:34 From: PAUL PETERSEN To: DAN RAHME (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 25791 (FUTURE ARTICLES) dan, if you live in the area of columbia, conn i might suggest that you check in on the crystal mountain bbs. they have an extensive programmers section with some very knowledgeable people who would be delighted to help you out. there's another one in manchester conn that operates after 8:30pm also good. the tel nos are; crystal mountain 228-1708, prog playland --- darn cant find. if you want it i'll get back. regards, paul Msg#:26210 *INK* 03/08/90 14:19:44 From: ED NISLEY To: DAN RAHME (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 25791 (FUTURE ARTICLES) OK, fair enough. I've just done yet another version of the HEX file generator code (in BASIC-52, believe it or not) recently enough that I remember enough to write a short note... if I can swindle a few pages out of Curt's budget, consider it done! I think Curt has some introductory ASM articles on the spike, but, if not, maybe it's time to start looking for them. Firmware Furnace is booked for the next few issues on a fairly gritty look at keyboard, display, ADC, and other interfaces (I'm building a gizmo and you get to see all the grisly details), so maybe I have to write a few other articles... sigh! Thanks, and keep on tinkering! Msg#:25817 *INK* 02/25/90 15:16:20 From: CAROL SCOTT To: ALL Subj: HC11&STEPPER MOTORS Is there anyone that knows about interfacing microprocessors and stepper motors? I am working on a project that interfaces the 68HC11 to a stepper motor. Are there any interface chips that I should consider besides the Sprague UCN-4401A. Also, the Sprague brochure mentions the Cybernetic CY500. What is that? Who is Cybernetic and how can I reach them? Msg#:25823 *INK* 02/25/90 22:01:42 From: PETER D'ALOISIO To: CAROL SCOTT (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 25817 (HC11&STEPPER MOTORS) Carol, I have an address for Cybernetic Micro Systems, Box 3000, San Gregorio, CA 94074, Tel: (415) 726-3000. This info comes from an ad in ECN dealing with an 8051 emulator. I believe that this is the company that you are looking for. I have "somewhere" a catalog containing the specific info about the device that is mentioned in your message. I did a quick search but was unable to find it, however, as I said I believe that the company mentioned above is the correct company or a division there of. I have applied stepper motors and stepper drives to machine tools and I was wondering if you have looked into using a drive specifically suited to these motors? Superior Electric in Bristol, CT (203) 582-9561 make such equipment. They make both packaged drives as well as individual modules that you can choose from to impliment a system. A packaged drive known as an Indexer, depending on the model choosen can be programmed to respond in a predetermined manner to various inputs and will take care of the varous operating parameters for you (acceleration, deacceleration, number of steps, direction, torque). This can be helpful in reducing your main processor workload. An example of an individual module that you may want to use is known as a translator. This module will take motor motion info in the form of pulses and convert them into voltages and currents as required for your stepping motor. This can be helpful if you are driving a high torque motor from a microprocessor or other low power system. I hope this information is helpful. I will look more thoroughly for my Cybernetics catalog and leave you a message if I find a better address for the company. Pete Msg#:25843 *INK* 02/26/90 08:29:45 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: CAROL SCOTT (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 25817 (HC11&STEPPER MOTORS) Issue #4 of Circuit Cellar INK was devoted to stepper motors and had all kinds of information on the subject. Go to the INK information area from the main menu to find out about ordering the first-year reprint book. Msg#:25818 *INK* 02/25/90 17:29:41 From: GAVIN MELVILLE To: ED NISLEY (Rcvd) Subj: INKNET / RS485 Ed, I am implementing a inknet type network similiar to INKNET but at 38400. How did you solve the problem with the 75176 receiver output being undefined on a terminated but undriven line. Some 75176's are high, some are low and some wander. This causes framing errors and the interrupt overhead is a killer. Any thoughts appreciated, Regards Gavin Melville Msg#:26214 *INK* 03/08/90 15:05:11 From: ED NISLEY To: GAVIN MELVILLE (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 25818 (INKNET / RS485) Hmm... all ours are in the "inactive" state... A quick fix would be to add a relatively high-value pullup to one side of the differential line so that the output is always in the state you want when the drivers are off. You might add a similar pulldown to the other side just to force the issue; these resistors could go on the ends of the terminating resistor on whichever board you've got the terminator. Which manufacturers produce which flavors? We've been using TI chips from several different date codes, all of which do the right thing. Thanks for the warning! Msg#:26523 *INK* 03/17/90 23:40:18 From: GAVIN MELVILLE To: ED NISLEY (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 26214 (INKNET / RS485) Ed, after testing 20 TI devices from batch 918A some are unstable (ie they may come up in either state, and once pushed will stay where they are) but most (14) came up high. I have already used pullup / down resistors (about 20k per node). I actually found a RS485 arcnet card that used 120k on each card, so others must have found this before. Thanks, Gavin Melville Msg#:25892 *INK* 02/27/90 09:26:19 From: TED DECASTRO To: ALL Subj: INFARED DETECTORS I read with interest the note in CC INK about the new flood lite detector unit that sends to the X-10 system. I have yet to be able to find such however!! Also it seems a bit of overkill!! The detector that would send the X-10 command - WITHOUT the floods would be just right!! Anyho I would like to see more info in CC INK about how these detectors work and are circuited so that certain shortcommings of commercial packages can be overcome! Mainly the available packages are too directional or the detector is too closely tethered to the control device. To be able to add multiple detectors or to be able to extend one would be very useful to know. Obviously a detector that triggers an X-10 device would solve this as well - since one would have more latitude on placement. I know Heath makes a radio coupled device - a nice idea but a bit too expen$ive! Also I'd rather not have to keep after batteries. An extensible detector that could run on low voltage power would be a very good idea - if these devices allow such. Msg#:25930 *INK* 02/28/90 09:19:20 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: TED DECASTRO (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 25892 (INFARED DETECTORS) Like I said in the article, Heath is selling it mail order. Radio Shack lists it and some other new X-10 stuff in their newest catalog, but I have yet to see any of it in any of the stores I've been watching. Stanley also sells the unit in home improvement and discount stores (which is where we got ours). You can make a device that sends out a code upon sensing of motion. Use any IR motion detector that provides a low-level signal output. Connect the sensor output to an X-10 burglar alarm module, and the module will send a command out upon activation of the sensor. You may end up spending just as much for the combination as you do for the floodlight unit, so you might be better just using the floodlight unit and simply not mounting the flood sockets. The key to most of the low-cost IR motion detectors on the market is the lens in front of the detector, so unless you're good with plastics, it's difficult to improve on an existing design. Msg#:25958 *INK* 02/28/90 21:56:59 From: RICK BERUBE To: TED DECASTRO (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 25892 (INFARED DETECTORS) Ted, Heath Kit offers just such a product. Check it out Rick. Msg#:26127 *INK* 03/06/90 09:55:38 From: TED DECASTRO To: KEN DAVIDSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 25930 (INFARED DETECTORS) Yes - using the RS unit and removing the flood lights was what I had pretty much planned to do! I had hoped for more info on PIDs - with the further hopes that the detector module could be gotten separately - including the lens - and then placed in custom applications - including multiple detectors for panoramic sensitivity. I have received a RS catalogue since reading the Circuit Cellar article and THINK I have the mode recent HEATH catalogue - but can't find the flood light device in either.--- maybe they are not listed with the other X-10 items. OR maybe they are being test marketed in a limtied area. I will continue to look in those resources and for the stanley version - I HAVE been looking in hardware stores figuring that such would happen soon! Thank-you for your reply! Msg#:26128 *INK* 03/06/90 09:56:58 From: TED DECASTRO To: RICK BERUBE (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 25958 (INFARED DETECTORS) I know of Heath's RF link - but it is too expensive for me! I will check a recent Heath catalogue to see what else they have. Thanks! Msg#:26165 *INK* 03/07/90 11:15:55 From: RICK BERUBE To: TED DECASTRO (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 26128 (INFARED DETECTORS) TED, HEATH HAS A WIDE VARIETY OF IR UNITS INCLUDING THE UNIT ALONE, IR-SPOTLIGHT, IR-SPOTLIGHT WITH X-10 CONTROL. i ALSO NOTICED RCA MAKES AN IR SWITCH OUT OF THE SECURITY DIVISON. RICK. Msg#:26412 *INK* 03/14/90 09:42:49 From: TED DECASTRO To: RICK BERUBE (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 26165 (INFARED DETECTORS) Thank-you for that reply - I think I'll pay the local HEATH outlet a visit - for some reason these item DO NOT show in my catalogue!! And I think I got it only a few weeks ago! I DID find the HEATH unit at a local hardware store - and a bit cheaper. I guess the BEST way to learn about how these things are circuited IS to get a HEATH KIT - that always has been a good way for other things in the past! Msg#:26415 *INK* 03/14/90 11:20:30 From: RICK BERUBE To: TED DECASTRO Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 26412 (INFARED DETECTORS) Enough said Ted. Good luck in your search. Rick. Msg#:25921 *INK* 02/27/90 23:58:48 From: OGER DAISLEY To: ALL USERS Subj: INQUIRY Circuit Cellar Ink: Maybe you can either point me to a previous article or perhaps some circuit suggestions. I have a 650 gallon spa that I like to keep at 103 degrees. The mechanical thermostat, at best, regulates it about 99 - 105 degrees. That's not really close enough for me. The heater is 220V 5.5KW (I'd like to increase to 11KW). To try to solve the problem, I bought a commercial digital controller, with proportional control, and a solid-sate relay (Omega brand). It works OK, but goes through heater elements like a hot knife through soft butter! (Three last year; one so far this year.) I guess that the constant cycling on/off is putting too much thermal shock on the element. It occurred to me that perhaps I could add some bias to the element by adding some small amount of constant voltage so that the element would not be switching on and off from a cold state. Perhaps some form of a triac, such as a light dimmer might work. Would it? But what I really would like to do, and is the basis of the letter, is to design a continuously variable proportional control, such as a light dimmer, triac system. That way the element is usually warm and not subject to constant on/off shock. I could use a computer to control that whole deal - such as an inexpensive Tandy, etc. I am a fairly competent Basic programmer, but not real knowledgeable in either the hardware requirements or the interface between the hardware and the program. It seems to me that there is a need for an analog to digital converter to measure the current temperature and then a digital to analog driver to tell the heater switcher (triac) circuit what to do. Any help or guidance would be appreciated. Sincerely, Roger Daisley 891 Kamus Place Fox Island, WA 98333 (206) 597-7182 A Circuit Cellar Ink subscriber. Msg#:25942 *INK* 02/28/90 13:59:15 From: JEFF BACHIOCHI To: OGER DAISLEY (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 25921 (INQUIRY) Oger, You probably have the right equipment to do the job. The problem you might have is changing the parameters of the control program. Not many controllers give the user a way of making adjustments. The standard SSRelays are zero-crossing turn-on. Unlike lamp dimmers that can be turned on at any point within the AC cycle, the SSR can only be off or on for a full 1/2 cycle. The only way to use the standard SSRs to do proportional control is to determine a minimum cycle time (i.e. 1 second or 60 cycles), then turn the SSR on for a varying percentage of that time. jeff Msg#:26175 *INK* 03/07/90 11:52:56 From: STEVE CIARCIA To: OGER DAISLEY (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 25921 (INQUIRY) What Jeff didn't add was that you can buy the "dimmer type" solid state relays as easily as the zero-crossing ones. Put a couple of those on an RTC system with the RTC-OPTO board and voila you have a BASIC controlled heater controller with temperature measurement, display, recording, etc, etc. --Steve PS. Ask him the part number for the module he showed me. In fact, his next "From the Bench" is on solid state relay and the like. Msg#:26300 *INK* 03/11/90 08:13:18 From: PELLERVO KASKINEN To: OGER DAISLEY Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 25921 (INQUIRY) Sounds like you have in the Omega controller all the capabilities necessary. You say that it is proportional. This proportionality means that it is doing the necessary cycle manipulations, some cycles on, some off to make the average power match the need. I think you should take a further look at the stability settings -- make the proportional band as wide as possible! This reduces the accuracy, but that is what it takes to keep the heating element partly on all the time. You probably still get temperature stability within your requirements. As an alternative, I remember Omega offering also phase controls. They are more expensive, of course. And regardless of what controller you have, there are sensor mounting related questions that may completely wipe out your chances of obtaining a steady and at the same time correct temperature. So, pay attention to the location of the temperature sensor in relation to the heat source and to any circulation of the water. Typical sensors have several seconds of response time even in agitated water and if the water flow is not arranged properly, you may get tens of seconds, maybe even minutes of response time in the large volumes of water. Under these circumstances, most any controller gets "lost". A few words about the control principles. A phase control splits the half cycles of the sinusoidal power, with varying firing angle causing varying average power delivered to the load. With a resistivre load, you get very sharp current peaks, from 0 to full load in a microsecond or less. This tends to cause radio disturbances and requires appropriate filters, like those in light dimmers, only bigger with your 5.5 kW load. The cycle switching with solid state relays tends to cause visible flicker on the lights. Also, if the relay is not producing an even number of half cycles, it will possibly pump DC through your transformer and the transformer does not like that - beyond a certain limit anyway. Given all these side effects, a general principle should be kept in mind: Use only as much power as is necessary to do the job. Excess power will both cause stronger side effects and more difficulties for stabilizing the control. Therefore, if the 5.5 kW does the job, do not go to 11 kW! -- PJK Msg#:25927 *INK* 02/28/90 08:44:41 From: BOB BAAL To: ALL Subj: CEBUS CEBus Work =-=-=-=-=-= Does anybody here know: 1) Any recent news on the CEBus work 2) An address/contact for some paperwork from EIA on CEBus? ( I have the INK Article ) Thanks Bob Baal Msg#:25935 *INK* 02/28/90 09:53:59 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: BOB BAAL (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 25927 (CEBUS) There is too much to try to put into a message here. In issue #14 of Circuit Cellar INK, I have a Domestic Automation column which details where in the standards-making process CEBus is. That issue just went to the printers and will be mailing some time in the next three weeks. We are also publishing a special issue to be mailed in late April with a theme of home automation. In that, I have a complete article similar to the one I wrote for issue #10 which summarizes where the spec itself is right now. If you're a subscriber, you'll get both of the above issues. If not, I'd suggest subscribing as soon as possible since the special issue will only go to subscribers and won't be on the newsstand. Msg#:25938 *INK* 02/28/90 10:13:27 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: BOB BAAL (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 25927 (CEBUS) By the way, one piece of information I can give you is how to get a draft copy of the portion of the CEBus spec that has been released for comment. Contact: EIA Standards Sales Dept. 1722 Eye St. NW Washington, DC 20006 You'll be able to get the power line physical layer plus all the upper network layers. Cost is around $35. (As one EIA official put it, "We may be a nonprofit agency, but we're also a nonloss agency.") ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Msg#:25992 *INK* 03/02/90 01:10:53 From: SCOTT COLSON To: ALL Subj: AUDIO/VIDEO MULTIPLEXER I WOULD LIKE TO MAKE SOME CHANGES TO THE AUDIO/VIDEO MULTIPLEXER IN STEVE CIARCIA'S ARTICLE (BYTE, FEBRUARY 1986). BASICALLY I WOULD LIKE TO EXPAND THE PROJECT SO THAT I CAN AUTOMATE THE SIGNAL LEVELS (IE VOLUMES) OF THE AUDIO OUTPUTS. AFTER DOING THAT I PLAN ON USING AN RTC31 CONTROLLER ON A NETWORK TO OPERATE THE A/V MUX. MY PROBLEM/QUESTION IS THAT I'M NOT SURE HOW TO VARY THE MUX OUTPUT LEVELS. I'M SURE THAT I NEED TO USE DAC'S BUT I AM NOT SURE HOW. DOES ANYONE KNOW OF ANY GOOD SOURCE MATERIAL OR HAVE SOME INSIGHT I MIGHT BE ABLE TO USE? THANKS, SCOTT COLSON Msg#:26011 *INK* 03/02/90 08:57:42 From: BURT BROWN To: SCOTT COLSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 25992 (AUDIO/VIDEO MULTIPLEXER) Several companies make IC's that act as a DC controlled attenuator or volume control. You could use DC levels from the DAC to change volume. A quick look in an old National semiconductor linear data book shows the LM 1036 which is a dual DC operated volume, tone and balance control chip. Looks like you can remotely change the bass and treble on your audio MUX as well! Digi-key (1-800-344-4539) has them for $2.85 each in single quantities. --Burt Msg#:26023 *INK* 03/02/90 19:55:24 From: SCOTT COLSON To: BURT BROWN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 26011 (AUDIO/VIDEO MULTIPLEXER) THANKS FOR THE QUICK RESPONSE! I'LL TAKE A LOOK AT THE DATA SHEETS AND ORDER A FEW OF THE CHIPS TO SEE HOW THEY WORK. THANKS, SCOTT Msg#:26043 *INK* 03/03/90 21:58:58 From: DAVID SWAGLER To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: SECOND YEAR ISSUES. Are you going to offer the second year issues the same way? I, for one, would buy it. I am sending my check tomorrow for the first one. If you are waiting for feedback before going on with it, consider this one vote in favor. Msg#:26171 *INK* 03/07/90 11:34:11 From: STEVE CIARCIA To: DAVID SWAGLER (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 26043 (SECOND YEAR ISSUES.) Yes, the second year will also be offered in an ofset reprint. We just haven't decided when. It may turn out that initially the reprint will contain reprint of sold out issues bound together with reall issues that might still be available. Might look a little wierd on the edge but having real magazine pages, even if only half or so, are always better. --Steve Msg#:26046 *INK* 03/03/90 22:45:53 From: HENRY MINSKY To: CURT FRANKLIN (Rcvd) Subj: COMMENTS I really enjoy CC INK, and I thought I would send a comment about some of your articles. I really liked the article on SCSI data acquisition; it had all the elements of a good project: hardware both analog and digital, and software, interfaces, and many system design details. I did not like the articles by Chris Ciarcia; they are too brief to cover such complex subjects as 3d computer graphics and neaural nets. They succeed mainly in showing me how smart the author is, but do not provide the satisfaction of seeing a well designed project or system design. keep up the good work! Msg#:26068 *INK* 03/04/90 15:14:20 From: CLAYTON HANDLEMAN To: ALL Subj: TERMINAL SCREEN CONTROL I am using a 68hc11 controller and would like to use a terminal as a display. I am using Kermit in vt100 mode. I have had no trouble writing charactors to the screen. My problem is that I would like to be able to go back up and revise the screen without completely rewriting the whole thing. How can I move around the screen and selectively change charactors at specific locations? Any suggestions would be appreciated. Clayton Msg#:26127 *INK* 03/06/90 09:55:38 From: TED DECASTRO To: KEN DAVIDSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 25930 (INFARED DETECTORS) Yes - using the RS unit and removing the flood lights was what I had pretty much planned to do! I had hoped for more info on PIDs - with the further hopes that the detector module could be gotten separately - including the lens - and then placed in custom applications - including multiple detectors for panoramic sensitivity. I have received a RS catalogue since reading the Circuit Cellar article and THINK I have the mode recent HEATH catalogue - but can't find the flood light device in either.--- maybe they are not listed with the other X-10 items. OR maybe they are being test marketed in a limtied area. I will continue to look in those resources and for the stanley version - I HAVE been looking in hardware stores figuring that such would happen soon! Thank-you for your reply! Msg#:26128 *INK* 03/06/90 09:56:58 From: TED DECASTRO To: RICK BERUBE (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 25958 (INFARED DETECTORS) I know of Heath's RF link - but it is too expensive for me! I will check a recent Heath catalogue to see what else they have. Thanks! Msg#:26165 *INK* 03/07/90 11:15:55 From: RICK BERUBE To: TED DECASTRO (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 26128 (INFARED DETECTORS) TED, HEATH HAS A WIDE VARIETY OF IR UNITS INCLUDING THE UNIT ALONE, IR-SPOTLIGHT, IR-SPOTLIGHT WITH X-10 CONTROL. i ALSO NOTICED RCA MAKES AN IR SWITCH OUT OF THE SECURITY DIVISON. RICK. Msg#:26412 *INK* 03/14/90 09:42:49 From: TED DECASTRO To: RICK BERUBE (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 26165 (INFARED DETECTORS) Thank-you for that reply - I think I'll pay the local HEATH outlet a visit - for some reason these item DO NOT show in my catalogue!! And I think I got it only a few weeks ago! I DID find the HEATH unit at a local hardware store - and a bit cheaper. I guess the BEST way to learn about how these things are circuited IS to get a HEATH KIT - that always has been a good way for other things in the past! Msg#:26415 *INK* 03/14/90 11:20:30 From: RICK BERUBE To: TED DECASTRO Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 26412 (INFARED DETECTORS) Enough said Ted. Good luck in your search. Rick. Msg#:26133 *INK* 03/06/90 16:21:16 From: MARC CROTEAU To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: MODEM PROTOCOLS Steve, Do you have any plan to write an article about modems in Ink? It would be interesting to know how some modem ICs work, what are some of the limitations those ICs have, what is been used for high speed communications, ... It would also be interresting to have some basics on the workings of modem transfer protocols: X,Y,ZModem,Sealink,Kermit Super Kermit, ... I liked the article aboutDSP in the last issue of Ink, it was a good explanation of the basics of DSP, enough to get someone interrested or not and read up on the subject ... I think there should be more of those articles in Ink. I am an Electrical Engineer myself and it is hard to keep up with today's technology, an overview of some E.E. related subject is always good to read and one can extrapolate on some points covered in such an article. Good work from you and your team ! Msg#:26173 *INK* 03/07/90 11:39:41 From: STEVE CIARCIA To: MARC CROTEAU (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 26133 (MODEM PROTOCOLS) I don't personally plan a modem article but I agree that it would be a good topic. How about it, Curt? Got anything cooking in the wings? --Steve Msg#:26183 *INK* 03/07/90 14:52:32 From: CURT FRANKLIN To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 26173 (MODEM PROTOCOLS) No, nothing cooking as yet, but I would be very happy to look at a proposal for projects based on some of the new 9600bps or FAX/modem combo chipsets. Any readers out there who want to attain lasting fame and fortune by writing for a top-notch computer applications journal? :-) Curt Msg#:26346 *INK* 03/12/90 12:46:31 From: MARC CROTEAU To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 26173 (MODEM PROTOCOLS) Thanks, hope I see something interesting on the subject! Msg#:26175 *INK* 03/07/90 11:52:56 From: STEVE CIARCIA To: OGER DAISLEY (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 25921 (INQUIRY) What Jeff didn't add was that you can buy the "dimmer type" solid state relays as easily as the zero-crossing ones. Put a couple of those on an RTC system with the RTC-OPTO board and voila you have a BASIC controlled heater controller with temperature measurement, display, recording, etc, etc. --Steve PS. Ask him the part number for the module he showed me. In fact, his next "From the Bench" is on solid state relay and the like. Msg#:26300 *INK* 03/11/90 08:13:18 From: PELLERVO KASKINEN To: OGER DAISLEY Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 25921 (INQUIRY) Sounds like you have in the Omega controller all the capabilities necessary. You say that it is proportional. This proportionality means that it is doing the necessary cycle manipulations, some cycles on, some off to make the average power match the need. I think you should take a further look at the stability settings -- make the proportional band as wide as possible! This reduces the accuracy, but that is what it takes to keep the heating element partly on all the time. You probably still get temperature stability within your requirements. As an alternative, I remember Omega offering also phase controls. They are more expensive, of course. And regardless of what controller you have, there are sensor mounting related questions that may completely wipe out your chances of obtaining a steady and at the same time correct temperature. So, pay attention to the location of the temperature sensor in relation to the heat source and to any circulation of the water. Typical sensors have several seconds of response time even in agitated water and if the water flow is not arranged properly, you may get tens of seconds, maybe even minutes of response time in the large volumes of water. Under these circumstances, most any controller gets "lost". A few words about the control principles. A phase control splits the half cycles of the sinusoidal power, with varying firing angle causing varying average power delivered to the load. With a resistivre load, you get very sharp current peaks, from 0 to full load in a microsecond or less. This tends to cause radio disturbances and requires appropriate filters, like those in light dimmers, only bigger with your 5.5 kW load. The cycle switching with solid state relays tends to cause visible flicker on the lights. Also, if the relay is not producing an even number of half cycles, it will possibly pump DC through your transformer and the transformer does not like that - beyond a certain limit anyway. Given all these side effects, a general principle should be kept in mind: Use only as much power as is necessary to do the job. Excess power will both cause stronger side effects and more difficulties for stabilizing the control. Therefore, if the 5.5 kW does the job, do not go to 11 kW! -- PJK Msg#:26189 *INK* 03/07/90 19:05:34 From: TIM DUFFY To: ALL AT CIRCUIT CELLAR Subj: ORCAD CAE PRODUCT ENHANCEME We have developed a menu environment for users of OrCad schematic capture (SDT) and PCB design products. Our product collects all the utilities (about 23) and command line parameters (over 250) into a mouse driven environment. ** The parameters are set from pick menus and toggle menus. The environment manages project file names, extensions, and directories. Several additional utilities are added to tie SDT and PCB together i.e. a stuff file maker, plot spooler, editor and viewer. ** The environment builds command lines and runs the programs and utilities without impacting working RAM. It is not a shell. ** I'm looking for a few select alpha and beta test sites for this product. I need companies of varying size that use OrCad products. ** Is anyone there using OrCad products? Can you help? ** Thanks, Tim Duffy Velotec, Inc. Anaheim, Ca. (714) 632-8856 Msg#:26201 *INK* 03/08/90 08:01:56 From: RANDY BERG To: ALL USERS Subj: 8031 PROJECT BOOK FROM:RANDY BERG TO:ALL USERS I AM IN NEED OF A BOOK ON DESIGNING 8031 PROJECTS. THE BOOK "MASTERING DIGITAL DEVICE CONTROL " BY WILLIAM HOUGHTON OF SYBEX BOOKS IS NOW OUT OF PRINT. DOES ANYONE KNOW OF ANY OTHER SOURCES FOR IT? OR OTHER 8031 PROJECT BOOKS? THANKS. Msg#:26210 *INK* 03/08/90 14:19:44 From: ED NISLEY To: DAN RAHME (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 25791 (FUTURE ARTICLES) OK, fair enough. I've just done yet another version of the HEX file generator code (in BASIC-52, believe it or not) recently enough that I remember enough to write a short note... if I can swindle a few pages out of Curt's budget, consider it done! I think Curt has some introductory ASM articles on the spike, but, if not, maybe it's time to start looking for them. Firmware Furnace is booked for the next few issues on a fairly gritty look at keyboard, display, ADC, and other interfaces (I'm building a gizmo and you get to see all the grisly details), so maybe I have to write a few other articles... sigh! Thanks, and keep on tinkering! Msg#:26214 *INK* 03/08/90 15:05:11 From: ED NISLEY To: GAVIN MELVILLE (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 25818 (INKNET / RS485) Hmm... all ours are in the "inactive" state... A quick fix would be to add a relatively high-value pullup to one side of the differential line so that the output is always in the state you want when the drivers are off. You might add a similar pulldown to the other side just to force the issue; these resistors could go on the ends of the terminating resistor on whichever board you've got the terminator. Which manufacturers produce which flavors? We've been using TI chips from several different date codes, all of which do the right thing. Thanks for the warning! Msg#:26523 *INK* 03/17/90 23:40:18 From: GAVIN MELVILLE To: ED NISLEY (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 26214 (INKNET / RS485) Ed, after testing 20 TI devices from batch 918A some are unstable (ie they may come up in either state, and once pushed will stay where they are) but most (14) came up high. I have already used pullup / down resistors (about 20k per node). I actually found a RS485 arcnet card that used 120k on each card, so others must have found this before. Thanks, Gavin Melville Msg#:26317 *INK* 03/11/90 13:28:25 From: BILL LIVINGSTON To: ALL USERS Subj: MICROCORNUCOPIA GOODBY Unfortunately, I was recently greeted with this message when I logged on to the MicroCornucopia BBS. It represents another loss of the original spirit behind personal computing. --------------------------------------------------------------------- Micro Cornucopia Bulletin Board PCBoard Software - Ver. 10.0 - 01/08/86 . System up at 03:42 on 03-04-1990 at 2400 baud. . ISSUE #53 WILL BE THE LAST MICRO C... SEE BULLETIN #2 FOR DETAILS . ------------------------------------------------- ==[ Bulletin 2 - What's coming up in Micro C ]================================ . Sad to say, but Issue #53 will be the last of Micro Cornucopia. Computer Language will take over our subscriber list and offer either Computer Language or AI Expert in place of Micro C. Plus, Embedded Systems Programming will be thrown in free, on request. (It looks like Embedded Systems will carry the remainder of the LIMBO series, plus the micro- controller C compiler project from the Units and Modules column.) Issue #53 will explain the reasons behind all of this, so I won't attempt to do it here. . This BBS will be up at least through the end of May. Back issues and such are still available. . I don't know what to say, except that it's been a fine experience working at Micro C and talking to you all on this board. Most of the folks who write for Micro C will continue to write for other computer magazines, so ya ain't seen the last of us... . Cheers, Larry Fogg . ============================================================================== Msg#:26342 *INK* 03/12/90 10:48:17 From: CURT FRANKLIN To: BILL LIVINGSTON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 26317 (MICROCORNUCOPIA GOODBY) We've known for a while that this was coming. The folks at Micro C "fought the good fight" for 8 years, but finally decided that it was time to move on. Their closing highlights the fact that publishing a magazine, especially in a niche as specialized as ours, is bloody difficult. Most readers enjoy seeing a magazine arrive on a regular basis, and build something of an emotional relationship with the magazine, without ever realizing the enormous amounts of effort, expertise, and money that must be involved in bringing it to them. Circuit Cellar INK is here for the long haul, but it has taken a hell of a lot of work and investment to get us where we are today, and it will take even more of both to take us where we need to be. After working your behind off for several years, it's tough to resist the lure of cashing out to a large publisher and moving on. History shows that the large publisher will generally shut the magazine down or change it to fit their ideas, making money but leaving the original readers out in the cold. We're depending on our readers to not let that happen to us. How can you help? I'm glad you asked! First, let others know about us. We've found that word-of-mouth is the best subscriber promotion that we can do. If you would like a stack of subscription cards to give to computer club members, give to firends, or leave on a table at a computer flea market, send me a message and we'll ship as amany as you need. Second, if you do business with a company that advertises in Circuit Cellar INK, let them know that you saw their advertisement. As the editor, I generally stay away from advertising-related issues: As a realist, I know that without advertisers, there is no magazine. I'm sorry to see Micro Cornucopia go, and I wish all the staff there the best. I guess that Circuit Cellar INK will just have to take in the slack, and keep publishing bigger and better issues to keep our readers, and our new readers, happy. Curt Franklin Editor in chief Circuit Cellar INK Msg#:26392 *INK* 03/13/90 21:44:01 From: PAUL PETERSEN To: CURT FRANKLIN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 26342 (MICROCORNUCOPIA GOODBY) curt, being an avid echo reader i often run across messages where a plug for this bbs is appropriate and so i do just that. you have a fine activity here and i'm happy to support it as much as i can happy days, paul Msg#:26772 *INK* 03/25/90 19:28:12 From: BILL LIVINGSTON To: CURT FRANKLIN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 26342 (MICROCORNUCOPIA GOODBY) I just hope that you are doing better, as you are the last of the hacker magazines. I am afraid that this is just another indication that the country is going to the lawyers. Keep up the good work. Msg#:27175 *INK* 04/03/90 20:57:05 From: JOHN POMER To: BILL LIVINGSTON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 26317 (MICROCORNUCOPIA GOODBY) I'm a new subscriber to INK and a former subscriber to Micro C. I had all of the issues up to a year ago. I learned alot about the Big Board and then the Kaypro. It provided me with much of the basics that I needed for the MS-DOS systems ... but my interests turned toward 680x0 series (and I bought a MAC - sold my AT+T). I wanted a magazine that addressed microprocessors other than JUST the 80x86 series. I wanted to see real microprocessor projects like early BYTE and Micro C. It's sad to see Micro C end. Most of the other computer related magazines seem to be expanded commercial reviews. Fortunately INK does exist. I thank Micro C for what they gave me. I'm glad that INK can carry on - and I hope that it does for many years... Msg#:26360 *INK* 03/12/90 21:26:26 From: HARRY KOLBE To: RUSSELL LINDGREN Subj: PROGRAMMING DSCOPE PALS I have purchased all the components needed to build the Digitizing Board for the IBM PC, but holding me back from completing the project is the PAL progamming. Could you or anyone on the BBS tell me where I could get them programmed? Also I would appreciate hearing from anyone who has completed the project and has any tips to offer on getting the project set up and running. Is there any updata info that I could use? Thanks for the article. As well as being interesting and informative, I expect to project to be very useful. Robert Mortensen Msg#:26377 *INK* 03/13/90 10:11:37 From: CURT FRANKLIN To: HARRY KOLBE (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 26360 (PROGRAMMING DSCOPE PALS) I'm not at all sure that Russ frequents this board any more, but he has programmed PALs for other readers who were building the board. Try this: Write a letter requesting the PAL programming to Russ. Send to him c/o Circuit Cellar INK. We'll forward the letter, he can tell you what to send, and everything will be copacetic. Thanks, Curt Msg#:26422 *INK* 03/14/90 19:01:45 From: HARRY KOLBE To: CURT FRANKLIN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 26377 (PROGRAMMING DSCOPE PALS) Curt, thank you for taking the time to replay to my inquiry. We will follow up on your recomendation. Harry Kolbe Msg#:26419 *INK* 03/14/90 12:31:05 From: JEFF BOLY To: EVERYONE Subj: CCBM DEFENSE SYSTEM I have spoken with Ed Nisley, but I figured I'd ask everbody else out there if you have any good ideas for the expanding seal washer in the CCBM bottle launcher. I have tried some things but I am looking for some really good ideas for optimum effect. -Jeff Boly Msg#:26437 *INK* 03/15/90 09:14:34 From: JEFF BACHIOCHI To: JEFF BOLY (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 26419 (CCBM DEFENSE SYSTEM) Jeff, I've got this stuff called GOOP that may work well for you. You can purchase it in most hardware type stores. This stuff looks like real thick rubber cement. I use it to fix most anything cause it sticks like a TAR-BABY. You can probably line an appropriate container with saran wrap an mold a washer just the right size! jeff Msg#:26445 *INK* 03/15/90 13:47:08 From: JEFF BOLY To: JEFF BACHIOCHI (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 26437 (CCBM DEFENSE SYSTEM) Thanx Jeff, I will try that Goop stuff if I can't find anything else that works. I knew someone would have another idea so I kept at it. If you here of any other rubber washer ideas let me know. -Jeff Boly Msg#:26473 *INK* 03/16/90 00:55:19 From: TOM MOORE To: JEFF BACHIOCHI (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 26437 (CCBM DEFENSE SYSTEM) There's also a hand cleaner called GOOP. It'd be a shame to get the two confused. :) Msg#:26481 *INK* 03/16/90 08:19:53 From: JEFF BACHIOCHI To: TOM MOORE (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 26473 (CCBM DEFENSE SYSTEM) Tom, If it is as good a product as the GOOP I'm familiar with, I'll have to look for it. Must be one of those waterless handcleaners! jeff Msg#:26537 *INK* 03/18/90 10:30:15 From: DAVE EWEN To: JEFF BACHIOCHI (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 26437 (CCBM DEFENSE SYSTEM) GOOP or RTV ? Msg#:26557 *INK* 03/19/90 08:19:01 From: JEFF BACHIOCHI To: DAVE EWEN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 26537 (CCBM DEFENSE SYSTEM) Dave, The brand name is GOOP. It does not contain silicon as many of the RTV's do! jeff Msg#:26494 *INK* 03/16/90 18:26:13 From: BILL DUFFY To: KENNETH A. JESSER Subj: 6800 A while ago I read a message sent to you by Paul Shuble about the Heath-Kit 6800 based micro tutor boards. I have to agree with Paul in that the micro processor trainers are over priced for what they are. They are not the type of board that could be used as a permanent project either. But, in the context of a learning system they are well worth the money. Heath-Kit has four self teach books; microprocessors, microprocessor interfacing, microprocessor applications and 6809. Each book is well written. They includes theory and lab experiments. By the way the books comes with all the components to the labs. If you are just starting to learn machine and microprocessor electronics it is a system you can do on your own at your own pace. I teach a high school Robotics and Computer Applications course using the system. I was assigned the course in June and had to teach it in September. My only experience with computers was basic on a pet. I had no trouble at all teaching my self the course over the summer. From this base of knowledge, students and I have designed and built video display boards, robot control board, strip reader and other projects. We use the Motorola 6801 mcu, a single chip big brother of the 6800. Well, I hope this will help you. Bill Duffy Msg#:26506 *INK* 03/17/90 03:22:44 From: DON ANDERSON To: BILL DUFFY (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 26494 (6800) What texts do you use for your robotics course? Don Msg#:26512 *INK* 03/17/90 13:39:51 From: KEN MUNKHOLM To: CURT FRANKLIN (Rcvd) Subj: TECHTIPS Are Tech-tips distributed to all subscribers or only ones in the US? If only in the US, How can I get them in Canada? ken Msg#:26572 *INK* 03/19/90 10:37:23 From: CURT FRANKLIN To: KEN MUNKHOLM (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 26512 (TECHTIPS) I'm not really sure whether the post-card deck with tech-tips goes to any subscribers outside the U.S. or not. I'll ask the publisher and get back to you. Curt Msg#:26518 *INK* 03/17/90 17:10:01 From: MARK BALCH To: ALL Subj: TECH-TIPS: RX/TX CIRCUITS Hi, I just got my card deck from INK and the two circuits for transmitting and receiving 2 analog channels and 2 digital channels were very interesting. I haven't really looked at them carefully, but besides I don't know alot about analog electronics. Can this chip set be used with more digital channels or are there any others that are mostly digital? Regardless, what is the typical max digital frequency for these digital tranceivers? It would be interesting to put an MCU into a radio controlled car... Thanks alot. Bye...Mark Msg#:26526 *INK* 03/18/90 04:24:05 From: DALE NASSAR To: MARK BALCH (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 26518 (TECH-TIPS: RX/TX CIRCUITS) Mark, I think there are several modes of operation for that pair of chips. You can find lengthy data in the National Semiconductor data book. I have tried a number of times (about two years ago) to construct the RX/TX circuits with no success. I constructed the project on breadboards from circuits from several different sources with all of the parts called for. Maybe the breadboard didn't mix with the 49MHz. I am planning to try from the Tech- Tip card. This is the only circuit in years that I gave up on without success. If you get it working please let me know. I was planning to make a wireless IBM joystick using the two analog and digital circuits. --Dale Msg#:26703 *INK* 03/23/90 22:42:26 From: MARK BALCH To: DALE NASSAR (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 26526 (TECH-TIPS: RX/TX CIRCUITS) Sounds like a challenge. The project is interesting, but I have no applications for it. Computer controller model cars and planes come to mind, but that wouldn't be worth the effort. In any case, I do plan to send for the National data books, thanks. Bye...Mark Msg#:26533 *INK* 03/18/90 10:12:23 From: DAVE EWEN To: CURT FRANKLIN (Rcvd) Subj: MAGAZINES Curt, what does an editor really do in an average day? (and do they all really look like Lou Grant?) Msg#:26573 *INK* 03/19/90 11:01:05 From: CURT FRANKLIN To: DAVE EWEN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 26533 (MAGAZINES) Dave - >what does an editor really do... Funny, Steve keeps asking me the same question. :-) Actually, my "average" day involves several parts. First, I try to keep up with developments in the computer and electronics industries, so that I can have some hope of knowing what you'll be interested in reading about 10 months from now. "Keeping up" means reading. Lots of reading. I go through between 20 and 35 magazines a month (for the job) and keep up with a couple of on-line services. I also check in here daily, and get seom correspondence from readers. The next part of the day is dealing with authors and potential authors. I solicit some manuscripts and get proposals for other on an unsolicited ("over the transom" in the jargon of publishing) basis. I review the proposals, correspond with the authors, stroke egos, make suggestions, teach the basics of the English language, and generally do the sorts of things that editors have been doing since the title was invented. This is, by the way, one of my favorite parts of the job. Next, I actually edit manuscripts, and try to turn them into articles. This means making sure that the manuscript is organized logically, that the illustrations are attached to the text, that the whole thing is written in something that passes for English, that it's interesting to read, relevent, useful, and all of the other things that we want an article in Circuit Cellar INK to be. When I'm through, I send the manuscript to Ken and to the art department. They take care of proofreading, fact-checking, illustrating, and "flowing" the article into our page format. Most days, I talk with our engineering staff, to see what projects they're cooking up for upcoming issues. The engineering staff also reads manuscripts, and tells me whether or not the material presented is "real." The engineering staff is one of the major features that makes Circuit Cellar INK special. They do a great job of keeping me on track. I also spend a lot of time talking to Steve. On top of the writing he does for Circuit Cellar INK, he's the "conscience" of the magazine. He is amazingly attuned to what readers need, and he makes sure that we don't stray far from the straight and narrow path. In my spare time, I write promotional pieces, do some correspondence (I stay at least a couple of months behind, but Rose makes sure that I do get to most of it), answer the telephone, worry about schedules, talk to the art department about design and art issues, and a whole host of other things. That's the general picture. There are days when I miss the support staff that BYTE allowed, but there's nothing in the world like being chief editor of a magazine. I love the job, and I hope that all of the readers think that we're doing a good job with their magazine. Curt Msg#:26574 *INK* 03/19/90 11:07:27 From: CURT FRANKLIN To: DAVE EWEN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 26533 (MAGAZINES) By the way, I don't think I look at all like Lou Grant. I'm 6'1", about 220 pounds, with thinning hair (as my wife keeps reminding me) and a beard. Well, maybe a *little* like Lou Grant... Curt Msg#:26596 *INK* 03/20/90 12:24:14 From: RICK BERUBE To: CURT FRANKLIN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 26573 (MAGAZINES) This reader thinks your doing a good job. You bring me better news than Time or Newsweek does and on a regular basis too! I have been a subscriber for only a short time (since Dec '89) but have yet to find another magazine that I what to read cover to cover like this one. Keep up the good work and don't worry. If you stray to far off the the beaten path and Steve's on vaction or something don't worry you'll get a call from me! It took a long time to find a magazine that I could really get into and I would definitely raise the "voice of opinion" if I saw the quality or the contents of the magazine slipping. Thanks. Msg#:26601 *INK* 03/20/90 15:59:30 From: ED NISLEY To: CURT FRANKLIN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 26573 (MAGAZINES) And you're a hell of a nice guy, too. Msg#:26706 *INK* 03/23/90 22:52:24 From: MARK BALCH To: CURT FRANKLIN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 26573 (MAGAZINES) Curt, I just read your message describing your day as editor. You guys ARE doing a great job. I complained a few months ago, but it is only right to be here to tell you when things are great and this past issue was a real nice one. Some very good and *interesting* articles. The kind of things that get your brain working and thinking up all these elaborate projects that you'll never build (or at least I won't for a long time). Keep up the good work! And thanks, really. Bye...Mark Msg#:26754 *INK* 03/25/90 10:50:34 From: DAVE EWEN To: CURT FRANKLIN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 26573 (MAGAZINES) Curt, thank you for giving us a glimpse of your workday. I think Ink is getting better and better with each passing year. I have another question related to the publishing end of things; How far has computerization gone there? I still read some magazines where columnists say things like "...Well, even though it's August as I write this, I want to wish you all a Happy Holidays..." Aren't all the printers working with computerized systems yet? Msg#:26813 *INK* 03/26/90 10:47:14 From: CURT FRANKLIN To: DAVE EWEN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 26754 (MAGAZINES) It's amazing to see how little the computer revolution has affected most publishers. Circuit Cellar INK is far more computerized than most publishers: I insist that manuscripts be submitted on disk, we do page layout on Macs, final output on a LaserWriter (yes, 300 dpi), and even our illustrations are largely computerized. We still turn to hand work for photos and color separations. (Why not do color seps in house? The equipment to make *magazine quality* color separations costs about $200,000, and takes a professional to run. Maybe next year... :-)) Many magazines are still produced by typesetters, who take typewritten manuscripts and re-type them. Type is output in long columns, and is pasted to illustration board using beeswax. The real problem is in the "pre-press" and printing stages. Both are highly specialized, tradition-bound, and expensive. Computers are slowly making their way into both, but it will be a long fight to get to true automation. Every editor I know fights the battle of lead times. Right now, we are in the late stages of putting together the June/July issue. It will leave our hands on April 19, go to pre-press and printing, and finally be printed around May 14. I've been looking at manuscripts (for this issue) for about a month. I've already got some manuscripts in hand for the August/September issue, and I'm in the serious planning stages for October/November. (Forgetting which month to write on your check is an occupational hazard of magazine editors.) All in all, things flow much more smoothly here than they did at BYTE. We are planning on further equipment and personnel changes that should help us do a better job and give us shorter lead times, we're just wating for the magazine to grow a little before we spend a lot of money. Thanks for the feedback. It helps to know that your readers like what you're doing. Curt Msg#:27064 *INK* 04/01/90 12:58:50 From: DAVE EWEN To: CURT FRANKLIN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 26813 (MAGAZINES) So then the only fast printer is a newspaper printer? Msg#:27090 *INK* 04/02/90 09:59:19 From: CURT FRANKLIN To: DAVE EWEN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 27064 (MAGAZINES) Basically, yes: But you might be surprised to find out how much of your "printed last night" newspaper has been sitting in a computer, or even in a warehouse, for several days or weeks. In general, newspapers have been much more agressive than magazines in embracing new technology. The time constraints have a lot to do with their reasoning. Another big factor in mewspaper's rush to technology is cost. Newspapers have seen their markets erode dramatically during the last twenty years. Since they have had only marginal success with enticing new readers to their pages, and even less success in attracting new advertisers, cost-cutting has become a priority. Printing a newspaper "the old-fashioned way" required an army of reporters, editors, proof-readers, artists, photographers, compositers, typesetters, and pressmen. When you add a healthy splash of technology, you can get by with a somewhat smaller army. Personally, my favorite technological break-through in newspaper publishing has been the advent of water-based ink. At last I can read a newspaper without looking like a coal miner... Curt Msg#:27176 *INK* 04/03/90 21:08:24 From: JOHN POMER To: DAVE EWEN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 26533 (MAGAZINES) Will CC INK be published monthly? Msg#:27209 *INK* 04/05/90 00:30:02 From: ERIC BOHLMAN To: CURT FRANKLIN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 27090 (MAGAZINES) >Another big factor in mewspaper's rush... ^ Shouldn't this apply to nagazimes as well? Sorry, I couldn't resist. It reminded me of a story I read when I was a kid. Msg#:27221 *INK* 04/05/90 08:56:56 From: CURT FRANKLIN To: ERIC BOHLMAN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 27209 (MAGAZINES) Gracious heavens, the Spelling Patrol's at it again! Actually, I saw the typo, and just refused to do battle with the BBS's editor to change things. Ah, well--it's episodes like this that help keep editors humble... Curt Msg#:27223 *INK* 04/05/90 09:01:01 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: CURT FRANKLIN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 27221 (MAGAZINES) What's to battle? Simply type "E" to edit the line, then "mew" as the string to edit and "new" as the replacement string. What could be easier? Msg#:27252 *INK* 04/06/90 08:56:52 From: ED NISLEY To: KEN DAVIDSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 27223 (MAGAZINES) A full-screen editor that knows about how messages are structured, could run up and down the tree at will, and didn't make you trundle along character by character? Ah, the Bandwidth Problem rears its ugly head... all we need is ISDN and fiber, then we can have nice BBS user interfaces! Msg#:27255 *INK* 04/06/90 10:18:46 From: CURT FRANKLIN To: ED NISLEY (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 27252 (MAGAZINES) Yeah, Ken...What Ed said. Actually, since most comm programs do VT100 emulation, it shouldn't take a lot more bandwidth than simple line editor commands. Oh Sysop--I have a suggestion for you... Curt Msg#:27326 *INK* 04/08/90 11:49:52 From: DAVE EWEN To: CURT FRANKLIN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 27090 (MAGAZINES) I think it would be neat if newspapers could also offer bbs-like setups where you could call in and scan wire-service reports by modem. Maybe you could earn n-many online hours per month of subscribing to the paper. Getting back to magazines, could you give me an idea where the dividing line is between "publishing" and "printing?" The assembly of the metal printing plates is obviously in the realm of the printer. How is the manuscript turned over to a printer? Msg#:27342 *INK* 04/08/90 22:45:58 From: PAUL PETERSEN To: DAVE EWEN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 27326 (MAGAZINES) dave, there are a few sources where you can read magazines and newspapers on line. one is the nexus system by mead data $35/hr. they also carry the full transcript of macneil/lahrer. the wall st journal is avail and i think the ny times is too. delphi carries the ap wire. paul Msg#:27362 *INK* 04/09/90 11:23:14 From: CURT FRANKLIN To: DAVE EWEN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 27326 (MAGAZINES) Gee, how to divide the field... Since printing is an integral part of publishing, maybe a better way to divide things would be into those functions traditionally handled by a publisher, and those traditionally farmed out to contractors. In the newspaper business, everything is generally done by the publisher, from gathering the news and selling space to advertisers to printing and delivering the final product. One of the reasons behind the merger of so many metropolitan newspapers is to allow two newspapers (usually a morning and an afternoon edition) to share the same printing facilities. Since a single large, high-speed web press can cost several million dollars, this is not a trivial consideration. Magazines, on the other hand, rarely own their own presses. The capital costs of four-color web presses is high enough that they must be kept running 24 hours a day to make any money. The most economical way to make this happen is to let a printer buy the press and solicit jobs to keep it running. Traditionally, publishers would do their own typesetting and paste-up (page layout to those in the desktop publishing generation), and farm color separations, pre-press prepping (the compilation of typeset, line-art, two-color, and four-color material into a form ready to go to the printer), printing, and distribution out to contractors. Even in today's electronic, computerized world few publishers handle all of the functions themselves. Why? Capital Cost is the answer in most cases. Let me give you just one example--color separations. Personal computer magazines are filled with ads and articles talking about the color separating capabilities of desktop systems. In truth, the processing horsepower is there to do pretty good separations. The problems come in storage and output. The output of the average laserprinter is 300 dpi. That's not considered "magazine quality" by most folks (even though it's precisely what we use to produce Circuit Cellar INK). To get "magazine quality" type, you need an imagesetter with a resolution of 1200 dpi. These imagesetters run about $50,000. That output still isn't good enough for color separations in a magazine. For good color seps, you need 2400 dpi resolution at a minimum, and your output cost just cumped to more than $125,000. To store one of these images, you'll need to spend a like amount, since a single scanned slide can take 75 Megs to store. The scanner? Plan $10,000 into your budget. Once you get the input, storage, and output devices, you'll still need some way to make those last-minute manipulations that everyone makes. A Scitex or Hell Chromacom system will set you back a million bucks or so. The final tab for a color separating system will probably be in the 2-3 million dollar range, and that doesn't count continuing operating expenses. Here a Circuit Cellar INK, we use the services of a subscription fulfillment service, publication distributor, advertising sales firm, color separator, pre-press house, and printer. Everything else, we do ourselves. Curt Msg#:27418 *INK* 04/11/90 14:57:14 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: CURT FRANKLIN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 27255 (MAGAZINES) Oh Editor in Chief--I have a better suggestion for you... ;-) Msg#:27479 *INK* 04/12/90 15:19:56 From: ED NISLEY To: KEN DAVIDSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 27418 (MAGAZINES) Come on, boys, don't fight! Msg#:27591 *INK* 04/15/90 13:07:10 From: DAVE EWEN To: PAUL PETERSEN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 27342 (MAGAZINES) $35/hr! Ack!!! Msg#:27592 *INK* 04/15/90 13:09:20 From: DAVE EWEN To: CURT FRANKLIN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 27362 (MAGAZINES) Color separation is just for photographs, right? I don't really see a lot of need for color photographs in Ink, except for advertisers who want color for their ad's photos. I think a high definition monochrome would be better for project articles, and probably cost less, although I admit color does "brighten" a page. Msg#:27611 *INK* 04/15/90 21:02:18 From: PAUL PETERSEN To: DAVE EWEN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 27591 (MAGAZINES) dave, awk?? dialog charges $150/hr. zip zot! :) Msg#:27853 *INK* 04/21/90 11:42:05 From: DAVE EWEN To: PAUL PETERSEN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 27611 (MAGAZINES) Aaaaaaaaaaack!!!!! Msg#:27934 *INK* 04/23/90 11:05:07 From: CURT FRANKLIN To: DAVE EWEN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 27592 (MAGAZINES) Basically, if more than one color is used on a page, some type of separation has do be made. The most complicated seps are for color photos,but we need a fair number of more basic seps for each issue. By the way, if you like color, wait until issue 17. The theme is graphics, and we have some illustrations that will knock your socks off. Curt Msg#:26584 *INK* 03/19/90 21:40:41 From: MIKE SIMS To: GENERAL Subj: DIGITAL SIGNAL PROCESSING I am currently developing an FFT using the program in a recent Circuit Cellar issue ["Digital Signal Processing"]. My platform is Hypercard (Macintosh). I have sent through a signal with frequency X. The result returns an accurate location of the frequency but reports it at two adjacent "slots" as + and - magnitudes equal to each other.Is this the expected result for this program or does it need "tweaking".THANKS! for your interest Msg#:26760 *INK* 03/25/90 11:09:16 From: DAVE EWEN To: MIKE SIMS Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 26584 (DIGITAL SIGNAL PROCESSING) I have not studied that article yet, but if this is a magnitude display you couldn't have a negative output, and if it isn't a magnitude display you will probably want to convert it to one. Try changing the frequency and see what you get. Msg#:27063 *INK* 04/01/90 12:56:48 From: DAVE EWEN To: MIKE SIMS Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 26584 (DIGITAL SIGNAL PROCESSING) The author is creating a log plot. That is where your negative value is coming from! Msg#:26628 *INK* 03/21/90 18:06:28 From: WALTER H. PETER To: ALL USER'S Subj: ZILOG Z8 As an avid Z8 user I'd like to add some info on The Z8 MCU line. To do anything with this device you need a Z8 Fanily Design Handbook, August 1989. For experimenting use the Z8603 and Z8613 Protopack parts. In 40 pin packages with piggy-back EPROM sockets for 2K and 4K ROM respectively. The Z86E21 is a 8K OTP part, CMOS 256 byte regester file, 40 pin package. There is a window package EPROM version out there (I have two) but only available as Engineering Samples from the factory. If you buy millions of parts the Z86C09 is under $1.00. Zilog also supplies various ICE boxes, Cross Assembler, and hardware tools at very reasonable cost. Zilog factory does not deal direct, call them for your local rep and order from them. I'm interested in hearing form other Z8 users. Walt Msg#:27266 *INK* 04/06/90 15:09:23 From: KEVIN CENTANNI To: WALTER H. PETER (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 26628 (ZILOG Z8) it was very interesting to read your message... my roomate and i have been working with z8's for over 4 or 5 years now... chose z8's for the following reasons: 1) we both came from trs-80 model i/iii (z80) backgrounds.... 2) we had lots of surplus z8'd from telecommunications equipment (autodialers,etc.) that we had access to and 3) zilog was pretty willing to help out 2 teenagers built silly little projects by providing us with lots of free or inexpensive data and samples. but, now, we have 'grown up' (i think) and have more money-making-minded plans for our 'silly little projects'. we are in the prototyping stage of development of a small, handheld keypad that's designed around the z8. but, we are finding it increasingly hard to find knowledgable hobbyists and engineers who actually have worked with and experienced many of the capabilities (and quirks) of the z8 family. i have even begun to wonder if it is not time to switch over to 8031/8051 chips... if for no other reason than the execllent network of support and assistance from places like circuit cellar ink and the cci bbs members. my partner (roomate), who is the main hardware person in all of this, has given me his 'technical reasons' for using z8's as opposed to other embedded controllers.... but i'm not sure whether it's worth it to have those extra freedoms/capabilities at the expense of losing technical support and assistance from our colleagues and peers. tell me what you have done with z8's... call me days at 212-268-2100 or nights at 212-979-1433... i'd like to know others who have indeed done work with z8's. has anyone else out there done any work with z8's????? please let yourself be known! thanks.... -=< kpc >=- Msg#:27428 *INK* 04/11/90 15:57:17 From: WALTER H. PETER To: KEVIN CENTANNI (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 27266 (ZILOG Z8) It's good to see at least one other Z8 fan out there! I've used the Z8 as the controller in several Automated Test Equipment designs with very good results. At present Iam design a 18 pin version (Z86C09) into a automobile Audible Warning Module. This is the device that beeps or chimes to remind the driver to 'fasten seat belt' or warn of leaving key in ignition, etc. The specs on automotive parts are very tough! For those interested in getting started with Z8's Jameco is having a close-out special on the Z8613RS, a nmos version with a piggy-back socket for a 4K EPROM. Their great for experimenting. Refer to Flyer #143, at $24.95 they are about half price. I'm willing to help others with Z8 projects over the Circuit Cellar BBS. Let's hear more from Z8 users. Walt Msg#:27561 *INK* 04/14/90 17:41:55 From: PAUL SHUBEL To: WALTER H. PETER (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 27428 (ZILOG Z8) How did you solve the following problem on the Z8? When the Z8 comes out of reset and reads the reset vector, how did you work around the fact that the upper-address lines are illegal. I know Zilog suggests putting pull-down resistors on the addr. pins, but doesn't this limit the fan-out? Also, are these chips otherwise "bug-free"? I haven't noticed any "bug" notes, accept for the one above, in the BIG Z8 handbook. Msg#:27617 *INK* 04/15/90 22:53:01 From: BOB BUSH To: WALTER H. PETER (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 26628 (ZILOG Z8) Well it looks like you've found another Z8 fan. I wrote and posted the first PD Z8 cross-assembler to appear on the cellar. Believe me when I say you've got to like the processor in order to write a cross assembler from scratch.. I built a simple prototyping setup for my Z8 work which consists of a Z8671 (basic/debug) processor with 8k of non-volitle ram for program storage. A simple 4 line basic program allows xfer of assembled files via the serial port from a 'termina1' program on my Amiga. The assembler supports a special file format for this capability. This arrangement results in a very simple and cost effective development system. Have used the Z8 as a controller for a genlocked video switcher. Have some plans to use it as the controller for a frame grabber sometime in the future. It's good to know that there are others around with an interest in the Z8!! --bob Msg#:27768 *INK* 04/18/90 19:38:20 From: WALTER H. PETER To: PAUL SHUBEL (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 27561 (ZILOG Z8) Paul, whick Z8 part number are you using? To the best of my knowledge all the ROMless development parts come up out of reset looking for external memory. Bugs? I have not had any problems with the instruction set, but you have to be careful of reading and writting some of the control registers. For example, writting the T0 register sets the timer count, but reading T0 returns the current count. Little things like that can throw you. Some tine ago there was a message on the board saying that CMOS Z8 parts needed a external reset pull up resistor, I checked with Zilog and all Z8 parts, CMOS and NMOS, have internal reset pull up resistors equivalent to about 150K. Sometimes I get different results when resetting the processor by grounding the reset pin and when turning off the power supply. Removing power results in a "better" reset, apparently resetting all the registers to zero. Using the resent pin only initializes some of the control registers. It's good practice to start every program (at ROM location 000C) with an initialization routine, making sure everything is set just how you want it. It's good to see other Z8 users out there! Walt Msg#:26704 *INK* 03/23/90 22:45:13 From: MARK BALCH To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: MODULATED LASER BEAM Hi Steve, Your latest article was fantastic! A real "basics" hardware hacker project...kind of the spirit of the whole Circuit Cellar. I really enjoyed the discussion and the circuit explanation. As soon as I finished reading the article, I found a laser diode with collomator for about $35. But when I think about it, I have no real need for such a project, so I put the catalog away... I've got two quick questions. First, what type of glasses are used to protect the eyes from low-power IR laser light? Are there any special vendors of these glasses or are they commonly available? My other question is about modulating the beam. This is new to me and I can't figure out why modulation is at all necessary and why certain frequencies are better than others. As far as I see things, why not just use a continuous beam and sense it with a photo-transistor or other detector? You mentioned the first trial with a visible laser at your house where the lamp in the kitchen didn't turn on until the laser was properly modulated. So here's the question: why is it necessary to use a modulated (meaning pulsing, right?) beam instead of a continuous one? Thanks alot! ('keep 'em commin'!) Bye, Mark Msg#:26827 *INK* 03/26/90 14:47:52 From: STEVE CIARCIA To: MARK BALCH (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 26704 (MODULATED LASER BEAM) Light, Radio, TV, etc, they are all the same, just different frequencies. Modulation is like this: Say you stand on one end of a football field and two friends stand at opposite corners at the other end. Since you left your glasses home today you can see then standing there but you can't tell who is whom. That's tha same as two unmodulated sources aimed at one detector. You see they are both there but can't differentiate between. Result is garbage. Now, back to the story. Just as you were about to give up you remember that you told one of your friends to wave his arms when he got to the place where he was to stand. Now, you can easily differentiate between the arm-waving modulated picture and the non-moving picture. This is a trite and not all together representative description of what modulation is but you should get the picture. Yes, if there were no other signals involved then modulation is unnecessary. Sheer presence is enought. However, the reality is that while sunlight, car headlights, flashlights, candles, etc are not lasers, they would be received just as well by the IR receiver. The only way to tell the difference between the laser and the headlight is to have the laser "wave its arms" :-) --Steve Msg#:26840 *INK* 03/26/90 17:10:40 From: RICK BERUBE To: MARK BALCH (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 26704 (MODULATED LASER BEAM) Think of modulation as a signiture. It can be forged but the chances of passing a forgery when you knowwhat the authentic signal looks like are greatly reduced. Modulation is done in terms of amplitude (AM radio), frequency (FM radio), and phase (Loran C for shipping navigation) as well as some other techniques I'm sure I don't even know about. Modulation allows circuitry to be much more selective since only a specific pattern is ever looked for, all other patterns can be rejected as noise! Not bad eh, and its really not the hard to do. Rick. Msg#:26933 *INK* 03/29/90 04:17:42 From: DALE NASSAR To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 26827 (MODULATED LASER BEAM) Steve, Thanks for publishing a method to modulate the laser diode driven by the IR3C02 driver. I have done some LED modulation using 40 KHz pulse frequency modulation to transmit audio about 1/2 mile. I am planning to try you modulation method with a 670nm (visible) laser diode. --Dale PS Have you tried the laser diodes that operate @ 670nm? The light is about as visible as that from a HeNe laser (more reddish). This device would make a great laser tag system. I am thinking to install one in a toy ray gun with piezo sound. Msg#:27015 *INK* 03/30/90 23:24:15 From: MARK BALCH To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 26827 (MODULATED LASER BEAM) Gottcha. Thanks for the explanation. Along the same line: can fiber optic cables carry the huge amounts of data (in terms of channels) that they do because of different modulation frequencies of the same light wavelength? Bye...Mark Msg#:27016 *INK* 03/30/90 23:25:31 From: MARK BALCH To: RICK BERUBE (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 26840 (MODULATED LASER BEAM) Yeah, it makes perfect sense now...thanks! Bye, Mark. Msg#:27094 *INK* 04/02/90 10:26:11 From: STEVE CIARCIA To: MARK BALCH (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 27015 (MODULATED LASER BEAM) yes --Steve Msg#:27095 *INK* 04/02/90 10:28:26 From: STEVE CIARCIA To: DALE NASSAR (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 26933 (MODULATED LASER BEAM) I've seen distribution ads for the 670 nM diodes but they were better than $100 each. Have you got a better low priced source? Also, how would a visible laser be more useful in a tag system? I'm curious. --Steve Msg#:27104 *INK* 04/02/90 12:25:56 From: DALE NASSAR To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 27095 (MODULATED LASER BEAM) $100 dollars for the 3mw models is all I have seen so far. I have ordered more lit from several sources. We have a lot of foggy nights down here and the visible laser light is really spectacular shining down the streets--Really attracts a lot of attention especially with the local police who seem to crowd around and take over with their cars and radios-- "How does it look way over there on Cheery Street?, over" --Dale Msg#:27168 *INK* 04/03/90 15:22:09 From: RICK BERUBE To: MARK BALCH (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 27016 (MODULATED LASER BEAM) Mark, I had an instructor at the vocational high school that I attended who was excellent at getting a technical point across in layman's terms. I always remember this when I try to explain something to someone else and it works! Show me an application and then work backwards and I can graps anything! Stay inquisitive and be relentless in your search for answers and you'll always be able to find some book, article or person that can explain anything to you where you can comprehend it. Rick :-{) Msg#:27304 *INK* 04/07/90 19:37:58 From: MARK BALCH To: RICK BERUBE (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 27168 (MODULATED LASER BEAM) Heh! Thanks for the words. If something interests me, chances are I can understand it. I ask questions though, as anyone else would. Bye...Mark Msg#:27382 *INK* 04/10/90 10:15:53 From: RICK BERUBE To: MARK BALCH (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 27304 (MODULATED LASER BEAM) More times than not Mark, it comes down to asking the RIGHT questions in order for the answer to make any sense! The right questions may not surface initially, but with persistance they'll always surface. Rick;-{) Msg#:26705 *INK* 03/23/90 22:46:23 From: MARK BALCH To: TOM CANTRELL (Rcvd) Subj: WHICH FAMILY? Hi Tom, I read your article about the Z8 in this issue of INK and found it very interesting. I've got a question though that is not at all meant to initiate a controller war, I am just curious as to why certain controllers are used over others. So far, I have been building with the 6800 family of chips and they've been very kind to me. Even though I haven't started with controllers, I do know that Motorola has a pretty large line of MCUs in the 6801, 6803, 6805 and 68HC11 families. You probably know all of this, but just to make myself clear, I thought that the 6805 and 6801 family offer great features in a wide variety of packages and configurations. Why does it seem that people avoid the Motorola family of parts for the Zilog and Intel parts? I know that the 80x86 family is used heavily in computers today, but there's a big difference between them and a Z8, Z80, 8031 or 8052. Is there a problem with the 6800 family that I have not yet found since I'm a relative beginner or is it just that people have gotten used to other families? Thanks for the informative article. Bye, Mark Msg#:26804 *INK* 03/26/90 08:40:06 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: MARK BALCH (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 26705 (WHICH FAMILY?) Why do some people buy Tide and others buy Cheer? They both get clothes clean. I suppose it may have something to do with what their mother used when they were little; how their clothes smell when they come out of the dryer; what the price is on the box; how attractive the ads are; what was on special this week at the store; and so on and so on. In our decadent capitalist society, there is competition. More than one company makes a microprocessor. While, in the end, each of these microprocessors will get the job done, each has slightly different features and design philosophies. If you buy Tide instead of Cheer and like the results, you're going to use it again, even if others tell you Cheer is better. Everyone learns about microprocessors using one particular chip. Chances are, once they get over the learning curve, they're going to use it again and again simply because that's the one they know best. That's the main reason why most in-house generated articles in INK use the 8031 or HD64180 instead of Motorola parts: those are what we have the experience with and the tools for. What I'm trying to point out is that choice of microprocessor is pretty much like choosing anything else. You have to look at features, cost, and especially past experience. Given identical factors in the first two catagories, different engineers are going to make different decisions because of the third catagory. Msg#:26857 *INK* 03/27/90 08:41:52 From: BOB PADDOCK To: KEN DAVIDSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 26804 (WHICH FAMILY?) Just to throw my two cents in here: "Everyone learns about microprocessors using one particular chip. Chances are, once they get over the learning curve, they're going to use it again and again simply because that's the one they know best."I believe that is called the Baby Duck Syndrome; the first thing a Baby Duck sees becomes its mother. I've used all three of the ones you mentioned (8031,64180, 680x). I find the 680x(x) family of parts far easier to program than the others. Of course each has has its own hardware features that my be just what is required for you particular job. On the other hand picking the the hardware first with out considering the software can lead to monumental software nightmares. Msg#:26863 *INK* 03/27/90 09:16:48 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: BOB PADDOCK (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 26857 (WHICH FAMILY?) That's why an engineer that can both design hardware and program is valuable when it comes to defining a system. He can look at the device from both viewpoints and can make tradeoffs in his head instead of with another person who doesn't fully understand the problem. I have used the 8080, Z80, HD64180, 8031, 6502, 8086, and 6800 and prefer the HD64180 (I can actually think in HD64180 mnemonics when designing a program). The Intel series of processors seem to rely more on having numerous registers while the 6xxx family relies on addressing modes. I owned an Apple II for a long time and programmed heavily in 6502 before the HD64180 (I learned on an 8080). I liked the 6502, but like the HD64180 better. The only time I've ever sat back and said, "That program can't be written on this processor" was when I was using a 6800. It was probably my inexperience with it, and later generation versions may be improved, but I've never liked the chip. Msg#:27013 *INK* 03/30/90 23:17:26 From: MARK BALCH To: KEN DAVIDSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 26804 (WHICH FAMILY?) Okay, thanks. I was just wondering about why the Hitachi and Intel controllers are so popular here. You are right though: I have been learning on the 68xx family and for 8-bit applications I can't envision switching to anything else, not that I'll be building anything that might need something else anyway. Bye...Mark Msg#:27014 *INK* 03/30/90 23:22:15 From: MARK BALCH To: KEN DAVIDSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 26863 (WHICH FAMILY?) You said that there were times where you thought that a program couldn't be written on a 6800 and you didn't like it that much. The only thing I don't like about the 6800 software is its conditional branching being limited to +/-128 bytes. That can get very annoying in even medium sized routines. Having a conditional jump with access to the full 64K address space would be a great improvement. I'm not sure of the 6809 has such an addressing mode. Other than that, the 6800 is great for me. The interfacing signals (I use the 6808 with built in clock, not the 6800) are straight-foreward and easy to design with. The programming is also easy for me with the exception of the problem I mentioned above. Different people like different things. Bye...Mark Msg#:27319 *INK* 04/08/90 03:01:27 From: PAUL SHUBEL To: MARK BALCH (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 26705 (WHICH FAMILY?) Here goes my 2 cents. I have programmed 680X's,8085, and 8051 and I prefer the 680X family. But, you have to remember that Intel marketing really took over the Military market for 8-bit micros and from there sprung a lot of 80XX trained engineers. Also in the beginning companies bought the Intel developement systems (Blue Box) for the 8080/8085 series. Then when the 8051 came out they simply bought an emulator and compiler for the 8051. They support the Blue boxes even today. In motorola land, the exorciser became popular, but Moto dropped high-level language support early on for the 6800 family. To sum up, Moto builds the best silicon (bug free chips) and therefore doesn't spend a lot of money ocustomer support to smooth over these bugs with the customers. Intel, on the other hand produces lousy silicon, but they back it up with excellent customer support. Intel won out, because upper management in your average company was impressed by the Intel customer support/relationships. The field was new and everyone thought that bugs in the silicon were the norm for the industry. Meanwhile the management at Moto is saying look H.P. is buying our micro's in droves because they know good sillicon and everyone else will eventually catch on. Okay, maybe the 6800's had bugs in the beginning, but they are nothing compared the to the original bugs in the 8051 and the current fiasco in the 8096/8098 family. Reading the current "ERRATA" for the different 8096 flavors really makes you want to laugh. I guess that is why CCI avoids the 8096 family even though its instruction set is so easy to understand and powerful (like the 68000). Any comment/critisizimes? Msg#:27486 *INK* 04/12/90 15:58:58 From: ED NISLEY To: PAUL SHUBEL (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 27319 (WHICH FAMILY?) No, reading the errata sheet makes you want to _cry_... Msg#:27599 *INK* 04/15/90 17:51:50 From: MARK BALCH To: PAUL SHUBEL (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 27319 (WHICH FAMILY?) Sounds interesting and makes alot of sense. I don't plan on moving from the 68xx. They've given me excellent support in the form of free literature whenever I send them a letter, so that keeps me happy. Bye...Mark Msg#:28310 *INK* 05/04/90 09:57:34 From: TOM CANTRELL To: MARK BALCH (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 26705 (WHICH FAMILY?) Admittedly, In my first few articles I haven't covered a Motorola chip - but I plan to do so soon. It is not really true that 'people avoid the Motorola parts' - indeed, the Motorola parts you mention contend for leadership with Intel. I would say that while the Motorola parts compete with Intel/Z80/etc. in unit sales, the latter family has more (especially smaller) customers. This might contribute to your perception. Msg#:28339 *INK* 05/05/90 15:47:52 From: MARK BALCH To: TOM CANTRELL (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 28310 (WHICH FAMILY?) Yes, then that's probably it; the fact that Z80/80xx has more "hardware hackers" than do the 68xx products. As you and others have said though, its what you like and what you are comfortable with. I'd be using them too probably had I found a book called "Basic Microprocessors and the Z80" instead of "Basic Microprocessors and the 6800." Ce la vie! Bye...Mark Msg#:26722 *INK* 03/24/90 09:45:51 From: DAVE EWEN To: CURT FRANKLIN (Rcvd) Subj: MITEE Curt, Whatever happened to the design contest projects? I would still be interested in seeing the how the hardware for that Mitee-Mouse maze- runner worked; how many sensors it used, how much ram was onboard, maybe a block diagram, etc. Msg#:26806 *INK* 03/26/90 08:50:05 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: DAVE EWEN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 26722 (MITEE) Funny you should mention it... Issue #15 has the first of a two-part article describing the Mitee Mouse robot and will talk about the hardware. Issue #16 will contain a description of the software. Msg#:26815 *INK* 03/26/90 11:00:52 From: CURT FRANKLIN To: DAVE EWEN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 26722 (MITEE) Funny you should mention that. Issue #15 will contain part one of the Mitee Mouse article. Part two will be in Issue #16. We will (as usual) carry full schematics, block diagrams, and parts lists. I hope you enjoy it. (Personally, I think it would be great if Circuit Cellar INK readers started building their own mice and entering the contests. It's past time to show that universities and large companies aren't the only places where creative, original thought and design takes place.) Curt Msg#:26816 *INK* 03/26/90 11:05:21 From: CURT FRANKLIN To: CURT FRANKLIN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 26815 (MITEE) Gee, there seems to be an echo in here...:-) Curt Msg#:26727 *INK* 03/24/90 13:04:04 From: BOB KRUGGEL To: ED NISLEY (Rcvd) Subj: APRIL/MAY FIRMWARE FURNACE I keep looking for the files for the 8052 random number article to no avail. When do you think they will be on the board? A second question: How do you find all those neat secrets about Basic-52? I have the Intel manual and they sure aren't in there. Thanks, Bob Kruggel Msg#:26945 *INK* 03/29/90 13:17:45 From: ED NISLEY To: BOB KRUGGEL (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 26727 (APRIL/MAY FIRMWARE FURNACE) Ken tells me they're all posted. We try to get 'em up here about the time you first see the magazine, but every now and again we miss by a few days... believe it or not, sometimes the mail goes through quickly! As far as the innards of the BASIC-52 interpreter go, all you have to do is live with the code for a few months while you're writing the network stuff. Micromint has the source code, so I had the advantage of being able to read the source when something funny happened... but, believe me, the source was written to fit into 8K, so it might as well be encrypted! We'd run the issue of whether the source was available or not into the ground a while back; it's not available here for reasons that made sense at the time. Msg#:26964 *INK* 03/29/90 21:42:09 From: BOB KRUGGEL To: ED NISLEY (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 26945 (APRIL/MAY FIRMWARE FURNACE) Ed, Thanks for the response. Keep on telling me (us) about the innards of Basic-52 and I promise not to ask for the source code. Since I once wrote some pretty horrible code to fit in an 1K Z80, long before I realized I might have to figure out what it was supposed to do, I can appreciate your deciphering it for me. Bob Kruggel Msg#:26740 *INK* 03/24/90 21:56:36 From: VIC RICHTER To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: LASER DIODES Steve, Enjoyed the Driveway Sensor progject very much. Just what I've been looking for. Question: What is the value of the pot on pin 3 of IR3C02? Page 46. Also, what do you look for when you adjust it? Are the resistors 1/4 Watt. Thanks. vic Msg#:26831 *INK* 03/26/90 14:57:32 From: STEVE CIARCIA To: VIC RICHTER (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 26740 (LASER DIODES) Damn! I remember that that had to be added to the schamatic and forgot to. The value is 10K to start. You can go as low as 5K but it depends on the diode in use. The value of the pot is explained in the IR3C02 data sheet section of the Sharp laser diode catalog. --Steve Msg#:26778 *INK* 03/25/90 22:58:47 From: GARY L. TROYER To: ED NISLEY (Rcvd) Subj: RANDOM RADIATION Ed Nisely - BASIC Radioactive Randoms - Your comment about the distribution of the radioactive events being Poisson is accurate. The data you collected is as one should expect except for what might occur as 'electronic' noise. Your data is insufficient to determine if in fact it is pure radioactive background or has some artificial component in it. A 119 sec. count is hardly enough to establish a background value let alone any non-natural effects. Your system can provide numbers with a Poisson distribution, a useful system for certain situations. And, as count rate increases, the distribution approximates Gaussian or Normal. However, if one wants a uniform or flat distribution, we still must rely on things like Knuth talks about. I use some suggestions found in "Numerical Recipes". In order to characterize your system, I would suggest an overnight experiment in which all events are tabulated and then blocked into one hour segments. One would expect to see a peak in count rate (or shorter average intervals) between 2 and 6 a.m. with a minima between noon and 6 p.m. The maximum is due to atmospheric temperature inversion which keeps radon from diluting due to a lack of solar thermals during the night. If electronic noise predominates, the diurnal variation could be masked. I have noted the Geiger counter you mention and have been curious about the claims that it can detect all three forms of normal radiation: alpha, beta, gamma. While it is possible to detect gamma, the efficiency is about 5% of that of beta. Absolute beta counting efficiency (counts/atomic disintegration*100) is usually less than 10%. Alpha particles can be stopped by thin tissue paper. Unless it has a very thin and delicate mylar viewing window, the Geiger tube has an alpha efficiency of zip. A way of testing is to obtain a Coleman lantern mantel and measure the count rate with the tube nearly touching the source. A Coleman lantern mantle has a rich abundance of all three radiations. Next, interpose a few sheets of mylar (kitchen plastic wrap) between the source and the detector (do not change detector/source distance or position). If the Geiger tube now measures significantly less count rate (~2%) then the instrument is sensitive to alpha. If the count rate only decreases a few per cent, then it is seeing only high energy betas. I have also looked at your data using Lotus 1-2-3 and am including the worksheet (graphs) for your interest. In closing - go have some good counts! Gary L. Troyer/1854 Mahan/Richland WA 99352/(509)373-1572(w)/(509)946-3425(h) Msg#:26953 *INK* 03/29/90 15:50:36 From: ED NISLEY To: GARY L. TROYER (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 26778 (RANDOM RADIATION) I figured that capturing a day or so of data would be a Good Thing, but burdening the BBS with the resulting tonnage would annoy Ken no end. The BBS files have 1000 numbers because that seemed like a good compromise between tonnage and sensibility. If you'll promise to do the analysis, I'll mail you a diskette with more samples than you can stand... The RM-60 manual goes into a lot of detail on classifying the radiation source, using much the same methods you describe. The thing has a very thin mica window, which is allegedly a Good Thing for alpha... but the window is behind a section of drilled-out plastic case with maybe a 15% opening ratio, so precious few alphas get through. Speaking of statistics, isn't it curious how states with high radon level readings also have low lung cancer rates? Hm... Msg#:27295 *INK* 04/07/90 13:57:17 From: GARY L. TROYER To: ED NISLEY (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 26953 (RANDOM RADIATION) +JJ+To Ed Nisley from Gary L. Troyer April 7, 1990 Radon and alphas: I was at the EPA International Symposium on Radon Mitigation in Atlanta last month. It is amazing to watch EPA types filter 1000 lung cancer cohorts down to 4 people who are correlated only with high radon and lung cancer and use this as evidence for radon problems. Lung cancer is definitely associated with radon progeny for uranium miners and similar people bathed in 200+ pCi/l. This fact establishes radon as a carcinogen. By law, therefore, its legal minimum concentration is zero! I am skeptical about low chronic levels. The EPA suggested mitigatin level is set at 4 pCi/l due to our ability to measure this value somewhat reliably. The limit is technology driven rather than law driven. The error bar at 4 pCi/l is 50 to 200%. How will you sell your house with a result of 4.1+/+2.0? I can go on with many inconsistencies in the radon issue.I would be happy to process your 'radon' data sets. I have scads of my own with thousands of radon progeny alpha energy analysis spectra. Send as described to: Gary L. Troyer/1854 Mahan/Richland WA 99352.I also have some large area mica sheets which I would be willing to share a piece. These babies are very fragile and I keep them as a curiosity. The general industry went to thin mylar over 15 years ago. We are now using surface barrier and diffused junction silicon diodes for alpha energy work. Also, if you knock the top off of a DRAM and play a few other tricks you can get very good quality alpha energy spectra from radon progeny. CCD chips work too. Msg#:27474 *INK* 04/12/90 15:01:38 From: ED NISLEY To: GARY L. TROYER (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 27295 (RANDOM RADIATION) OK, I'll capture a few days of readings and send 'em to you... Are you, by any chance, a subscriber to Herr Doktor Petr (not misspelled) Beckman's Access to Energy? If not, you'd enjoy it as much as I do, which is to say a lot. We all agree on some things that most people don't, which may mean something... Msg#:27529 *INK* 04/13/90 17:24:10 From: VICTOR BRUNAMONTI To: ED NISLEY (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 27474 (RANDOM RADIATION) Please provide subscription info for Herr Doktor Petr Beckman's Access to Energy. Sounds interesting...... Msg#:27644 *INK* 04/16/90 12:43:57 From: ED NISLEY To: VICTOR BRUNAMONTI (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 27529 (RANDOM RADIATION) Hah! Got another one! I'll fish the address out of the latest issue and post it posthaste. Msg#:27759 *INK* 04/18/90 11:59:52 From: ED NISLEY To: VICTOR BRUNAMONTI (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 27529 (RANDOM RADIATION) Access To Energy Box 2298 Boulder CO 80306 "A Pro-Science, Pro-Technology, Pro-Free Enterprise Monthly Newsletter" $25/12 issues. Unlike most periodicals with a Boulder mailing address, this one is actually located in Boulder! Msg#:28052 *INK* 04/26/90 00:27:31 From: GARY L. TROYER To: ED NISLEY (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 27474 (RANDOM RADIATION) I have received your data. Initial analysis shows expected diurnal to some degree with a gradual increase through the period. Was the weather degrading towards the end of period? Rainy? I also suspect that you might have your lunch external to the basement/office. Will let you know full assumptions. Thanks for the tip on the good Doktor. I am a nuclear chemist by training and a computer scientist by avocation and practice. Msg#:28078 *INK* 04/26/90 15:17:20 From: ED NISLEY To: GARY L. TROYER Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 28052 (RANDOM RADIATION) What??? I have radioactive peanut butter??? That was Easter weekend, so (according to the folks who remember such things), so Friday was good, Saturday was beautiful, and Easter Sunday was rainy. Monday was probably so-so. I was in and out every now and again, but wasn't doing anything in particular. Msg#:26780 *INK* 03/25/90 23:39:36 From: THOMAS J. POWDERLY To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: IMAGEWISE Steve, am now getting your mag, I wish I knew that's where you went two years ago! Wondered why I wasn't buying that magazine anymore.. Anyways, I spent a bit of the weekend digging up the 87 issues from the local comm. college... then I log on to find 2 sets of files.. ImageWise and ImageWise/PC... duh... it's not REAL apparent, but I think you maybe did a IBM backplane form of this thingy?? You don't actually say that , ya know.. So i use a ST at home / Mac at home & a 386 clone at work. Did I guess right on the two sets 'o files? If so, I'll go generic '232 rather than specific bus.. still guessing, regards TJ3 Msg#:26810 *INK* 03/26/90 09:21:23 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: THOMAS J. POWDERLY (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 26780 (IMAGEWISE) The descriptions in the file areas make no attempt to be detailed in describing the projects that the files go with. We assume you already have the articles, since they are necessary in order to use the files in the first place. The original ImageWise is serial based and appeared in the May, June, and July '87 issues of BYTE. It can be used with any computer that has a serial port, though we only have software for IBM PCs. The ImageWise/PC is indeed a PC-bus-based version of the original ImageWise, so only works in PC compatibles. It appeared in issues 6, 7, and 8 of Circuit Cellar INK. Msg#:27075 *INK* 04/01/90 22:48:53 From: THOMAS J. POWDERLY To: KEN DAVIDSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 26810 (IMAGEWISE) Thanks Ken, logic folows mouth again (sorry). t.powderly Msg#:26902 *INK* 03/28/90 02:29:03 From: RAY ABADIE To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: WOOD CUTTING LASERS Dear Mr. Ciarcia, I recently came across some beautiful paperweights with an instricate cut logo of uniform depth and varying thicness (about .5 mm to 6mm). Much to my surprise, the hunk of walnut had a sticker that read Lasercraft! Upon further research, it appears that the work was done with a laser. For years I have dreamt of the possibility of laser cutting balsa wood to fabricate model airplane parts by mounting a laser or high speed water nozzle to a pseudo-plotter-like mechanism. Would you know the requirements (or know which discipline of science) in terms of proper wavelength to minimize scorching as well as a general idea of the complexity of the power supply requirements for such a project. By the way, just read the article on the driveway motion sensors and was suprised to discover that the Mitsubishi ML-87028 laser diode I procured for a similar project is potentially dangerous for this use (30 mW). Thanks in advance for you help and many years of thought provoking writing! Ray Abadie Msg#:27092 *INK* 04/02/90 10:16:39 From: STEVE CIARCIA To: RAY ABADIE (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 26902 (WOOD CUTTING LASERS) I put your message in the public area so that others might comment. Considering I blew myself up playing with explosives, damaged my eyes messing with arc lamps, and nearly incinerated myself making a jet engine (all this stuff when I was a kid), I have a conservative approach with lasers. I haven't tried to burn anything yet and I use safety glasses even with the low mW units. You need a CO2 laser. Where to get one and how to use it has to come from someone else. Sorry. --Steve Msg#:27120 *INK* 04/02/90 23:47:11 From: RAY ABADIE To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 27092 (WOOD CUTTING LASERS) Dear Steve, Sorry? Thanks for the common sense advice in the "prior exploits" discourse. I too have been near sources of potential danger and thus far have had the luck of not having any close calls (though a healthy chicken attitude does help). At least the information that the proper type is CO2 will help in locating the proper authorities/sources for the information. Thanks, Ray Abadie Msg#:27124 *INK* 04/03/90 00:56:22 From: DON ANDERSON To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 27092 (WOOD CUTTING LASERS) The people that I look to (when it comes to high power lasers) is Specta Physics. Msg#:27158 *INK* 04/03/90 08:39:54 From: STEVE CIARCIA To: RAY ABADIE (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 27120 (WOOD CUTTING LASERS) Scientific American has run articles on building CO2 lasers if you are brave. It was about 15 years ago but I was told they are planning another series this year. --Steve Msg#:27250 *INK* 04/06/90 02:05:54 From: RAY ABADIE To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 27158 (WOOD CUTTING LASERS) THANKS... I will investigate the subject a bit further as far as safety, etc. Bravery and foolhardiness are a fine line apart and I have always leaned towards the "save the hide" side. I'll keep you posted on any progress. Thanks! Ray Abadie (P.S. This does constitute a disclaimer as to the responsibility of the source for the information! (GRIN) Msg#:26922 *INK* 03/28/90 23:06:24 From: JOHN S. FARNSWORTH To: ALL USERS Subj: MICROENGINE ARTICLE Just read the article. Thanks. If anybody has interest or questions, let me leave my direct line at Mitsumi. It's 408-980-5415. We encourage any size order, and will try our best to help you with any given application. One thing to remember . . . it's exactly an IBM compatible AT clone. Anything you can do on an AT you can do on the MicroEngine (only SMALLER!) I'll also check the BBS for messages. Ta Ta John Farnsworth, Engineering Manager, Mitsumi Technology, Inc. Msg#:26949 *INK* 03/29/90 15:17:17 From: BILL SCHEREMETA To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: NICAD CHARGING Steve- I hope your article will address the design of a "fire-and-forget" nicad battery charger. This is a charger that will charge a NiCad from any level to "full" at the press of a button. The user should not have to set a clock. I have heard that monitoring the temperature of the cell-under-charge can be used to predict its level of energy. Msg#:27096 *INK* 04/02/90 10:36:30 From: STEVE CIARCIA To: BILL SCHEREMETA (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 26949 (NICAD CHARGING) My article is about a data logger and "oh, by the way" it has NiCd batteries that are "properly" charged. "Properly" does not fast charging in this case. If the article were on chargers then I would include it. Remember, guys, the circuit has a power supply but that is not what the article is about! -Steve PS. UGH! Shades of the Data Encryptor again. Msg#:26959 *INK* 03/29/90 19:23:18 From: EVAN HOLLANDER To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: LASER DIODES Steve, I enjoyed your article in the April/May Ink. I am in the process of procuring the parts to build the laser transmitter and receiver. I have ordered the laser diode and collimator but I am unable to find a source to sell me the IR3C02A in small (onesy, twosy) quantities. I called Marshall and they have a twenty five dollar mininum (at .73 each thats a lot of chips). Any suggestions? Thanks, Evan Msg#:26997 *INK* 03/30/90 09:22:49 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: EVAN HOLLANDER (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 26996 (LASER DIODES) Before the article was published, Marshall *assured* me that they would be willing to supply the chip in single quantities to anyone who wanted to order one. The minimum order only applies to credit card orders over the phone and not to orders mailed with a check. Notice that the source box at the end of the article states that they are available from Marshall prepaid. Msg#:26963 *INK* 03/29/90 21:32:02 From: DALE REID To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: DAYTON Steve ... long time, no log on. I really enjoyed the last issue of the CCI, and have two questions.. a)Was there ANY response to the efforts to get subscribers from Dayton last year? b) do you want my to take cards down again and pass them out? I'll be happey to do so, but not if you had zero or non-profitable return. Dale Msg#:27097 *INK* 04/02/90 10:41:53 From: STEVE CIARCIA To: DALE REID Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 26963 (DAYTON) Considering that our circulation keeps going up, we/you must be doing something right. Unfortunately, the cards you received last year were not keyed in any way so we could not tell specific response. If we have enough time beforehand this year we could key them. We'd love it if you like to bring some cards. How many when and where? Any other promotional junk? --Steve Msg#:27050 *INK* 04/01/90 11:07:38 From: LESLIE BROOKS To: CURT FRANKLIN (Rcvd) Subj: SCSI The article on building a SCSI interface was very useful. Now how about an article on building a SCSI controller - maybe for use as a disk interface, or for a tape backup, etc. Is the NCR chip the best choice? Msg#:27145 *INK* 04/03/90 07:51:33 From: CURT FRANKLIN To: LESLIE BROOKS (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 27050 (SCSI) I'd love to run an article on building a SCSI controller. Now if I can just find someone to write it... Curt Msg#:27148 *INK* 04/03/90 08:15:40 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: LESLIE BROOKS (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 27050 (SCSI) Two such articles have appeared in the last few years. In issues 9 and 10 of Circuit Cellar INK, there is an intelligent SCSI data acquisition system for the Mac that uses a 6502 and a 5380. It's not far from being a generic SCSI controller. And in the May and June '86 issues of BYTE, Steve described adding SCSI to the SB180, again using the 5380. Msg#:28146 *INK* 04/29/90 16:59:53 From: LESLIE BROOKS To: CURT FRANKLIN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 27145 (SCSI) Not me, not this summer. I am working on a master's degree, plus working full time, and I plan to still know my family when the degree is done. I'd like to do it, but can't see it this summer. Msg#:27051 *INK* 04/01/90 11:11:30 From: PHILIP AVNER To: JOHN EBERLE Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 25035 (DSP INFO/INTEL HEX FORMAT) John - YES... I'm very interested. If it's not picked up by the magazine, please let me know when you have something to share... at any price (almost). Msg#:27100 *INK* 04/02/90 10:55:13 From: RON WAGNER To: ALL USERS Subj: OSCILLOSCOPES The latest issue of CCI contains an editorial statement to the effect that an O-scope is necessary equipment. Yet no recommendations are given as to what to buy. Does anyone have an opinion here? What about some of those $500 scopes from Hitachi, Kenwood or B+K? What are the minimum requirements for an acceptable scope? Msg#:27153 *INK* 04/03/90 08:28:35 From: STEVE CIARCIA To: RON WAGNER (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 27100 (OSCILLOSCOPES) I personally like Techtronix. --Steve Msg#:27194 *INK* 04/04/90 11:02:55 From: BOB PADDOCK To: RON WAGNER (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 27100 (OSCILLOSCOPES) We (Where I work) just payed $9,000 for a scope, and I still couldn't get it to show me what I wanted to see. (The Boss wouldn't go for the $23,000 one that would actually work for what we need.) What you have to decide is what speed of signal you want to look at first of all, then start thinking about 'nice to have things' like storage. Are you working with simple TTL or CMOS or tring to work on a 16 MHz 68000 (My $9K scope coudn't handle measureing the time between the occurence of two 20 nS wide pulse in my 68000 circuit.)? For simple TTL or CMOS (7400/4000 familys) one of the simple $500 scopes will do just fine, from there cost rises rapidly with speed (minimim displayble pusle width and/or sampling times). Msg#:27204 *INK* 04/04/90 19:05:51 From: RICK SMITH To: RON WAGNER (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 27100 (OSCILLOSCOPES) Whatever 'scope you use, get decent probes for it. You wouldn't believe how screwed up you can get using 10 Mc. probes on a 100 Mc. 'scope to look at fast signals. Msg#:27232 *INK* 04/05/90 14:18:31 From: JEFF BACHIOCHI To: RON WAGNER (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 27100 (OSCILLOSCOPES) Ron, When choosing a scope, make sure it rating is at least 10 times the fastest signals you want to view! Of course, price goes up with speed, but you won't get a true picture of the waveform due to roll-off at the high end. Triggering may also be a problem at the scopes upper limit! jeff Msg#:27259 *INK* 04/06/90 13:30:28 From: RON WAGNER To: JEFF BACHIOCHI (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 27232 (OSCILLOSCOPES) Jeff, Thanks for the tip, but 10x speed? Do you mean to say that if I want to be fiddling with cards in a 16MHz 386 computer I should have a 150MHz scope? I'm certain I could afford no such instrument ( I still have to eat!). If I had a 20Mhz scope on just such a project, how much distortion do you think I would get? Perhaps I shouldn't be thinking of building those type boards. Ron. Msg#:27306 *INK* 04/07/90 20:00:00 From: MARK BALCH To: BOB PADDOCK (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 27194 (OSCILLOSCOPES) Bob, I am planning on getting a scope but on the low range. I am figuring on between 20 and 30 MHz and between $500 and $600. This is alot of money for a student, but I'm not exactly wire wrapping an 80486 board in my attic! Realistically, I don't expect do go above 2MHz and 8 bits for a while. There are still many avenues to explore with the 8 bit parts I have been using so far. Given this, a 25 MHz scope should be adequate, right? But let's say that I want to try a 10MHz 16bit project in a few years, do you think I should get a 25MHz scope and say "this is all I need and I can get something better when I have more money" or should I plunge into the $1000 scopes? I am leaning HEAVILY, OH SO HEAVILY on the 25MHz scopes because of their price tags. Thanks alot! Bye...Mark Msg#:27330 *INK* 04/08/90 12:10:44 From: DAVE EWEN To: RON WAGNER (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 27259 (OSCILLOSCOPES) Ron, any scope is far better than no scope. The bandwidth battle can lead you to the surplus boat anchors, which really are not so wonderful, and won't fit on your bench. At some point scopes and logic analyzers will be one and the same. When that happens, get one. (I'm talkin' low price here, not an HP16500) Msg#:27331 *INK* 04/08/90 12:12:38 From: DAVE EWEN To: RICK SMITH Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 27204 (OSCILLOSCOPES) You wouldn't happen to know what the exact difference is, would you? Msg#:27341 *INK* 04/08/90 22:35:37 From: PAUL PETERSEN To: MARK BALCH (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 27306 (OSCILLOSCOPES) mark, i've been reading your comments and thought i'd offer my 2c worth. i'd say that since you are a student the $500 scope will get you bye for now. 25mhz is probably more than adequate for what you describe. after using it for a while you will begin to notice what it is lacking, and, like a better computer you'll want more. that's when you might consider the better scope. i'm going to buy one also and i'm definately going with the -$400- model. i plan on building up some microprocessor boards and it will just have to do for now. happy days, paul Msg#:27350 *INK* 04/09/90 09:23:23 From: JEFF BACHIOCHI To: RON WAGNER (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 27259 (OSCILLOSCOPES) Ron, Most of the signals within a system are far slower than the CPU's clock. (Usually, a factor of 10 or more) If you can live with the scope rounding off fast, square edges at max frequency, than there is no need to spend the extra cash. Scope prices, like most other electronics, are going down as fast as capabilities are going up. Buy what you need, tomorrow's another day! jeff Msg#:27603 *INK* 04/15/90 18:02:33 From: MARK BALCH To: PAUL PETERSEN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 27341 (OSCILLOSCOPES) 'Appreciate the input. Getting an 8 trace, 150MHz digital storage scope would be nice but my rather small bugdet is gonna keep me at the $500 end of the market. Have you checked out the 25Mz scope on sale for about $400 from JDR? I'm looking at that one and a 20MHz Hitachi model sold by Specialized Products. Bye...Mark Msg#:27612 *INK* 04/15/90 21:04:08 From: PAUL PETERSEN To: MARK BALCH (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 27603 (OSCILLOSCOPES) mark, my guess is that one's as good as another. calibrated vert and hor with triggered sync about does it. i'll get mine locally at one of the distributors in hartford, probably hatry. :) Msg#:27653 *INK* 04/16/90 13:50:25 From: ED NISLEY To: MARK BALCH (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 27603 (OSCILLOSCOPES) If you can spring for delayed sweep, get it. It's often real handy to lock onto a relatively slow signal (say a TV frame) and then zoom in on a relatively fast signal (say a TV line). If you've got a second sweep in there, you're home free. Msg#:27861 *INK* 04/21/90 16:38:19 From: MARK BALCH To: PAUL PETERSEN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 27612 (OSCILLOSCOPES) There's only one place locally (NYC) where I'd get a 'scope but I have more faith in Specialized Products or JDR. I'll probably go with the 20MHz from JDR. It's only $390 and I've had very successful dealings with them in the past. Bye...Mark Msg#:27862 *INK* 04/21/90 16:40:23 From: MARK BALCH To: ED NISLEY (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 27653 (OSCILLOSCOPES) Delayed Sweep? I'll have to do some more checking. My applications though are going to be pretty straight-foreward: slow digital electronics (no more than 2 MHz anytime soon). I don't know much at all about TV or real analog electronics at this stage of the game. If I can get the delayed sweep for a decent enough price, I'll take it...thanks! Bye...Mark Msg#:27889 *INK* 04/22/90 10:37:13 From: PELLERVO KASKINEN To: JEFF BACHIOCHI (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 27350 (OSCILLOSCOPES) I agree with your comments about the scope selection criteria. Bob Paddock in his version probably had in mind working with fast PAL's and being unable to verify differences in propagation delays. These are the kind of problem that comes up when you try to squeeze the last bit of performance out of processors and memory. Consider the 4.5 ns new PALs from AMD and building a TRUE zero wait state address decoding for something that runs at 33 or 40 MHz. Cache... Anyway, conservative design and use of 6 to 10 MHz clocks can be managed with a 20/25 MHz scope, especially, if it is accompanied by a good logic probe. -- PJK Msg#:27923 *INK* 04/23/90 08:36:03 From: JEFF BACHIOCHI To: PELLERVO KASKINEN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 27889 (OSCILLOSCOPES) Pellervo, Right you are! As soon as the storage scopes drop a bit, they will make another level of sophistication affordable! jeff Msg#:27972 *INK* 04/24/90 13:09:28 From: BOB PADDOCK To: PELLERVO KASKINEN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 27889 (OSCILLOSCOPES) The scope was a Gould model 4072 400Ms/Sec 100 MHz unit. The circuit was a 68HC000 running at 10 MHz. The control signals (AS*, R/W*, LDS*, and a few address lines) were feed into a Altera EP600 EPLD, to come up with a decoded address. The decoded address is used to reset a counter. The pulse out of the EP600 are some thing like 30 nS. This 30 nS pulse should have been repeating every 700 mS. All I wanted to do was confirm that the pulses were idea 700 mS apart. The problem with the scope was that if I expanded the screen to the point to were I could actually see the 30 nS pulse on the screen, that put the 700 mS pulse about 4 feet to the right of the screen [really hard to see over there on the other side of the wall :-)]. If I set the timing so that 700 mS fit on the screen then I couldn't seen the very narrow pulse! :-( I finally gave up on our brand new, much to over priced, scope and got out a 15 year old frequency counter that I could do period measurements with. It showed me that I did indead have 700 mS pulses. Msg#:28044 *INK* 04/25/90 13:44:13 From: STEVE CIARCIA To: BOB PADDOCK (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 27972 (OSCILLOSCOPES) Hey, Bob, while we got you on the line here do you have any names and numbers of security and alarm system product companies that I may not know about. Haven't renewed my catalogs in a few years. --Steve Msg#:28062 *INK* 04/26/90 09:09:17 From: BOB PADDOCK To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 28044 (OSCILLOSCOPES) Sorry can't be of any help there. Not some thing I've every really been interested in, so don't have any thing laying around. When some one finds one that only detectes people let me know I want one! Msg#:28072 *INK* 04/26/90 14:26:34 From: ED NISLEY To: BOB PADDOCK (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 27972 (OSCILLOSCOPES) That's why you need a delayed sweep scope! You fit the whole picture on the screen, then dial in the delayed sweep to magnify only the chunk you're interested in. Just magnifying it and twiddling with the horizontal position control isn't what you want because it's too finicky and you can't make true time measurements. Well worth the investment, because measuring that sort of event is just what you do all the time... Msg#:28102 *INK* 04/27/90 13:19:46 From: STEVE CIARCIA To: BOB PADDOCK (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 28062 (OSCILLOSCOPES) Believe it or not, I just sent my brother an AT and an ImageWise PC and asked him to work on some software to do just that (my brother is the guy who writes the CC INK articles that most people haven't a prayer of understanding). We'll see what he comes up with. --Steve Msg#:28138 *INK* 04/29/90 13:47:29 From: PELLERVO KASKINEN To: BOB PADDOCK (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 27972 (OSCILLOSCOPES) Yeah! The only other way would have been using some of the better logic analyzers and some other ingenuity.... -- PJK Msg#:28151 *INK* 04/29/90 18:12:19 From: DAVE EWEN To: ED NISLEY (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 28072 (OSCILLOSCOPES) Say Ed, How fast can a printer port be read? This O-scope discussion has me thinking about logic analyzers. See what I'm thinking? Msg#:28163 *INK* 04/30/90 08:45:49 From: BOB PADDOCK To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 28102 (OSCILLOSCOPES) I under stood his Neural Net artical, just wish the example code was in "C" insted of Fortran. I've never had any interest in graphics or video, but if an AT and ImageWise will protect me from Ed's "Killer Chipmunk" I might get interested.... Msg#:28514 *INK* 05/11/90 14:45:34 From: ED NISLEY To: DAVE EWEN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 28151 (OSCILLOSCOPES) How fast can you read a printer port? Well, it all depends... It takes one instruction to do the read: just an IN AL,DX. Then you've got to stash the data somewhere, which probably goes something like STOSB to put it at ES:DI. Then you do a LOOP to repeat it for some number of counts (up to 64K, if that's enough). At a rough guess, that's under 20 clock cycles. Apply your CPU's clock speed and get elapsed time. I'd measure it to be sure, because prefetching contributes a little confusion to the timing and you can't be sure just by reading the manual and adding the cycle counts. If you know you're on a 286 or 386, you can replace the IN and STOSB instructions with a single INSB and save maybe five cycles. If you're _sure_ your machine can handle the timing, you can use a REP INSB instruction that runs at 4 clocks per byte! The problem is that you don't get consistent timing unless you turn off interrupts around the loop: you _don't_ want to get clobbered with a timer tick in the middle! The sampling rate depends on the processor clock speed, which may or may not be a bad thing. Fast enough? Msg#:27269 *INK* 04/06/90 19:10:49 From: HARRY KOLBE To: WINEFRED WASHINGTON (Rcvd) Subj: MIDISEQ PROJECT We are working on a system that is similar to your MIDISEQ project which you presented in the Dec '89/Jan '90 issue of Circuit Cellar Ink, and are getting hung up while using DDT-51 in the Scan routine. Is it possable that you could give us some help clearifying this sub-routine? As it is, the program always assumes that I press the "*" key. I would appreciate being able to discuss this with you one-to-one. Thank you. Harry Kolbe Msg#:29224 *INK* 05/29/90 23:29:21 From: WINEFRED WASHINGTON To: HARRY KOLBE (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 27269 (MIDISEQ PROJECT) Harry Kolbe I'll be glad to talk to you about it. Winefred Washington Msg#:27291 *INK* 04/07/90 11:28:55 From: VIC RICHTER To: ALL Subj: LASER I called Marshall about buying onesies-twosies of the Sharp IR3C02A chip and they said I was "misinformed"--they have a $25 minimum order...has anyone found an alternate source, or if not, I'd be willing to order a bunch of these and make them available for $2 for the first, $1 for each additional...the laser diode Marshall has for $23 they say doesn't have the collimator or their would not ge a problem with the min. order. leave me a message if anyone interested. Vic Richter Msg#:27464 *INK* 04/12/90 09:08:06 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: VIC RICHTER (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 27291 (LASER) I just posted a message here about this a week or two ago. Marshall does indeed have a $25 minimum order, but only for those placed over the phone with a charge card. If you send in a check with the order, there isn't a minimum. Note that the box in INK states that the part is available *prepaid* from Marshall. We checked this out with them before listing them with the article and they assured us that the parts would be available in single quantities. Msg#:27514 *INK* 04/13/90 00:24:57 From: VIC RICHTER To: KEN DAVIDSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 27464 (LASER) Well, the girl I talked to said no, they have a $25 dollar minimum, period, so what do you do, send them 73 cents and hope for the best, or do they include a 24 dollar handling charge??? Vic Msg#:27394 *INK* 04/10/90 20:54:41 From: DAVID K. MERRIMAN To: CURT FRANKLIN (Rcvd) Subj: PAL/PLD Just wanted to know if you have any plans to publish an article on building a PAL/PLD programmer; something like the Serial EPROM programmer. I'm at the point where I'd LIKE to start using PALs and PLDs, but don't have ready access to a programmer, and can't afford to buy a commercial unit. How 'bout it, team? <]Dave[> Msg#:27932 *INK* 04/23/90 10:59:41 From: CURT FRANKLIN To: DAVID K. MERRIMAN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 27394 (PAL/PLD) Well, we've certainly discussed building a PAL programmer. The problem, so far, is that PALs have not been as uniform in their characteristics as EPROMs. We'll discuss it some more and see what comes up. Curt Msg#:28031 *INK* 04/25/90 04:27:00 From: FRANK HENRIQUEZ To: CURT FRANKLIN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 27932 (PAL/PLD) Curt: Even if a PAL programmer could only do PEEL and GAL devices, it would still be a popular and useful circuit. PEELs and GALs are probably better suited for small projects and experimenters, anyway, since they are reusable... Msg#:28223 *INK* 05/01/90 18:03:40 From: MARK BALCH To: CURT FRANKLIN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 27932 (PAL/PLD) Curt, do you guys have the Cypress CMOS data book? They have a pretty good description of the programming pinouts and methods for the simpler PALs and GALS. The hard part is the fuse map generating which isn't hardware but software. From a first glance, it seemed pretty "easy" to do. But there are other PALs that are really good (TI makes some amazing ones like State MAchines and all) but I haven't gotten programmign info yet. Bye...Mark Msg#:27400 *INK* 04/11/90 01:16:17 From: STEVE BLAIR To: ED NISLEY (Rcvd) Subj: BASICNET V1.0 I have written networking firmware for the 8052AH BASIC processor. The firmware works well; it even has a rotating master poller in case the master poller dies. Right now I have limited the firmware to 9600 baud to allow the IBM console software to be written in QuickBasic. I would like to have the network run at 19.2K baud but alas, it's either basic or assembler for me. Your monitor program written for INKNET would be almost identical to what I would need. How would you recommend I approach this situation ? Suggested reading material, languages, or price quotes would be greatly appreciated Msg#:27477 *INK* 04/12/90 15:17:15 From: ED NISLEY To: STEVE BLAIR (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 27400 (BASICNET V1.0) Y'know, the facts of the matter are that the devil you know is far better than the devil you don't. Rather than introducing a lot of complexity that has nothing to do with the functionality (now _there's_ a turn of phrase!), how about staying at 9600 b/s and doing the code entirely in QB? That way you avoid a whole lot of messy code and keep the design manageable. What I did for MCNet was build interrupt handlers for the serial and timer interrupts. The timer tick is responsible for starting new packets after the right delays, while the serial handler builds incoming packets and sends outgoing ones. Messages are held in packets with some header information (like timestamps, status flags, chain pointers, and suchlike) and all the routines pass pointers around like crazy. That sort of thing is a natural C application, so blending C and assembler wasn't too hard. How you'd do that with BASIC is an entirely different matter. If it weren't for the timing, you could probably allocate and free things on the fly... which is hard to do in assembler! Sounds good so far! Msg#:27544 *INK* 04/14/90 01:24:09 From: STEVE BLAIR To: ED NISLEY (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 27477 (BASICNET V1.0) QB does well enough handling the console function for my network; so I will have no choice but to stick with it for a while. I've got a couple of local C programmers working on it. The rotating master node feature is really the kicker. I can toggle power switches on and off on any node, master or not, and have no interruption of network traffic! The complete ROM code is just over 4K bytes long. Would you mind if I posted the executables on this BBS when they are finished? I plan on getting the ROM code copyrighted and put it out as shareware. Msg#:27645 *INK* 04/16/90 12:45:01 From: ED NISLEY To: STEVE BLAIR (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 27544 (BASICNET V1.0) I'll defer to Steve on that... Msg#:27401 *INK* 04/11/90 02:02:54 From: PAUL JOHNSON To: ALL Subj: INFRARED REMOTE CONTROL SIGNAL REPEATER I have now logged in to the BBS for a total of 3 minutes, so if I make any mistakes, be gentle with me, it's my first time! A month or so ago I received a "Tech Tip" (TM) in the mail with a schematic for an Infrared Remote Control Signal Repeater. The timing could not have been better! I was just about to put the thing together, when I noticed something that looked a little strange. In the upper left hand corner of the schematic there are two resistors in series, with values labelled 510k and 2.7k. I am used to seeing a large and a small capacitor in parallel because of the inductance of the large capacitor, however I would guess that the 2.7k resistor doesn't belong there since it is of a value which is within the tolerance of the 510k resistor. Is there a typo somewhere? Also, I checked a 1990 Siemens optoelectronic catalog, and it doesn't reference a "BP186S" photodiode. I happen to have a few Siemens SFH206's sitting around, should these work as well? One other thing I am interested in is eventually having 5 or 10 inputs, and several outputs. I'm guessing that multiple outputs aren't a problem since they can just be hooked up in parallel, however the inputs may be up to a 50 feet apart, which seems like it might be enough wire to cause lots of problems with the high gain amplifier. Is there an easy way to have multiple inputs (probably each with its own amplifier) and then combine the outputs of these to several output LEDs? Many thanks! Msg#:27406 *INK* 04/11/90 08:59:13 From: STEPHEN D. HOLLE To: ALL Subj: 8052-BASIC I've got a question for all you Firmware Furnace Fans out there. I need an algorithm or, preferably, source code to convert a 24-bit (3-byte) binary number to the floating point format used by 8052 BASIC. If someone can get me started with the code to do the multibyte binary-to-packed BCD conversion I can figure out how to format it. Thanks in advance Reply has been deleted Msg#:27449 *INK* 04/11/90 23:25:43 From: FRANK HENRIQUEZ To: ALL Subj: APRIL/MAY SCSI ARTICLE The SCSI article in the April/May issue was good, but there are a couple of problems with the software. If this software is to be used on the Mac, it's a really bad programming practice to hard code the SCSI chip address into the code; if Apple changes the hardware location on a future Mac, the program will fail, or worse, cause a serious system crash. While this is a remote possibility, it's safer to get the address from the system. There is a global variable that contains the SCSI hardware base address, so the code would look like this: move.l #scsiBase, a0 move.l (a0),a0 or something like that. The second problem is related; the SCSI drivers in the newer Macs (basically all the off-white "platinum" Mac Pluses, and all the other SE and Mac II machines) are quite fast. It would be better to rewrite the software to go through these drivers, instead of writing a separate driver just for this piece of SCSI hardware. Again, if the hardware changes, the software will still work (for instance, if a new machine were to use a 16 bit SCSI II controller, the software would still work, while the code in the article will not). I'm not sure if the software in the article will work reliably in a Mac fx. Msg#:27453 *INK* 04/12/90 01:27:05 From: STEVEN HEADLEY To: ALL Subj: IMAGEWISE/PC Hello, I am a novice when it comes to writing software, so please bear with me. I would like to write a program for the imagewise pc/video digitizer that would be able to display pictures and text files at the same time. Also is it possible to overlap too. If you can point me in the right direction towards an overall top down to specific approach to coding inTurbo Pascal, I would be appreciative. Also, are there any commerical software routines available that will do the trick in turbo. Msg#:27492 *INK* 04/12/90 16:45:54 From: ED NISLEY To: STEVEN HEADLEY (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 27453 (IMAGEWISE/PC) Well, the broad-brush approach goes like this... All text is graphics, so what you do is translate each character into an array of dots (using the old CGA bitmaps in ROM if you want 8x8 character cells). Then you stick those dots into the right locations in the video buffer, using whatever gray level you think is appropriate. You can leave the background alone, change it to a different color, or whatever. That's all there is to it, but the mechanics are a challenge. It would probably be faster to suck the image out of the ImageWise/PC buffer into your PC's RAM, twiddle the bytes as needed, and write it back out again. The alternative (changing individual bytes for each character) would be limited by the need to blank the screen around each transaction. One catch is that the resolution is just fine for images, but pretty small for text. You've only got 256 dots across the screen and 240 down, with some lost to overscan. If you use an 8x8 character you get 32 across and 30 down, with a few characters tucked under the bezel. Remember that each bit in each character turns into a byte in the video buffer and you'll do all right. It helps to draw a big picture on paper and figure out a couple key addresses to keep your head straight. Have fun! Msg#:27456 *INK* 04/12/90 02:11:57 From: SCOTT T. DUPUIE To: TOM CANTRELL/ALL USERS Subj: BASIC PROCESSORS I recently read Tom Cantrell's article entitled "Whither Zilog?" in the April/May 1990 issue if Circuit Cellar INK. I was quite intrigued by Zilog's new line of CMOS microcontrollers, particularly the low cost Z86Cxx series. I am wondering if any of these processors have a built in BASIC interpreter like the Z8671, 8073, and 8052-BASIC processors. Does anybody know of any CMOS microcontrollers which have this capability? I have an application which requires a very small microcontroller preferably with a small amount of RAM which can be backed up by battery. The above processors are NMOS and draw too much current for my application. I am more of a hardware person and I tend to avoid programming in assembly language at all costs. I'll appreciate any feedba ck on this subject. Thanks. Msg#:27497 *INK* 04/12/90 16:58:26 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: SCOTT T. DUPUIE (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 27456 (BASIC PROCESSORS) Micromint sells an 80C52-BASIC processor which has the same BASIC-52 on-board as Intel's chip but is CMOS. Msg#:27622 *INK* 04/16/90 01:59:26 From: SCOTT T. DUPUIE To: KEN DAVIDSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 27497 (BASIC PROCESSORS) Thanks for the information on the Micromint CMOS processor. I was aware that this product exists, but it is much more hardware than I need. Is the BASIC CMOS processor available separately? Msg#:27667 *INK* 04/16/90 14:51:24 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: SCOTT T. DUPUIE (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 27622 (BASIC PROCESSORS) I thought that's what I said. ;-) Micromint sells an 80C52-BASIC processor with BASIC-52 on the chip. Micromint also sells a microcontroller board which uses the 80C52-BASIC chip, but I was talking about the chip itself right from the start. Msg#:27695 *INK* 04/16/90 23:19:45 From: SCOTT T. DUPUIE To: KEN DAVIDSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 27667 (BASIC PROCESSORS) Sorry about the misunderstanding Ken. I thought you were referring to their microcontroller board. Thanks again for the information and your patience. Msg#:27457 *INK* 04/12/90 02:34:56 From: RUSSELL T. FOSTER To: JEFF BACHIOCHI (Rcvd) Subj: FROM THE BENCH Hi Ken, Keep up the good work. In From the Bench (or a full article) it like to see a tutorial on using photodiodes and phototransisors. How to bias them, what kind of signal to expect out and what the first stage of an amp should look like. Several of Steve's articles in the past have used them, but he either was working with fairly high signal levels or used one of the receiver chips. I did notice that for more sensitivity the series resistance used with a diode should go up. I got cute and used a constant current source. Rather than just a couple of circuits I would like a discussion of why? Right now my project is a multi-input repeater so my stereo remote controls can be used from other rooms in the house. No reply is needed. Msg#:27539 *INK* 04/13/90 23:04:32 From: CLYDE E. MCMURDY To: ALL Subj: STEPPER CONTROLLER Greetings, If I may draw your attention back to Vol 1. #4 (July/August 1988),the article on stepper motors. I breadboarded the circuit (p. 6) and downloaded Sequencer off this BBS. The Stepper is from CCI (airpax P/N 82227) 4-wire. I can't get the stepper to turn. I've tried 5 & 12V but to no avail. The best it will do is occillate back & forth. I am quite sure I have the sequence of wires right...I can run the stepper manually with SPST switches. Any suggestions??? I am new to breadboarding & hardware, so I had an EE look at it. He thinks things look peachy. I have access to a scope & full software debugging, so I can check out most helpful hints. I would really appreciate some help. Thanks in advance, Clyde E. McMurdy Msg#:27649 *INK* 04/16/90 13:35:49 From: ED NISLEY To: CLYDE E. MCMURDY (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 27539 (STEPPER CONTROLLER) Take a look at the drive signals going to the motor; I bet you've got a dead transistor somewhere. Barring that, sketch the drive signals and see if you've got the phases right... even if you've looked it over, try again! Msg#:27598 *INK* 04/15/90 14:34:26 From: JOHN KARNS To: ALL Subj: BOOKS In attempting to order a book which was recently mentioned in the pages of Circuit Cellar, I was dismayed to find find out that the book had gone out of print. I remember reading (in a since forgotten periodical) that there is a book store in the silicon valley area that specializes in technical publications, but I can't recall the name of the company. I am hoping to find a copy of the book on the shelf of such a dealer. Does anyone know of such a bookstore or mail order company? Msg#:27613 *INK* 04/15/90 21:14:26 From: PAUL PETERSEN To: JOHN KARNS (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 27598 (BOOKS) john, the bookstore that i deal mostly with is Bookware 800-288-5662 mostly because they send ups collect. :) paul Msg#:27623 *INK* 04/16/90 02:04:10 From: JOHN KARNS To: PAUL PETERSEN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 27613 (BOOKS) Thanx, Paul! I'll check them out. Msg#:28018 *INK* 04/24/90 23:15:56 From: TERRY L RUPPE To: JOHN KARNS Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 27598 (BOOKS) John, read your message and remembered a similar article or ad. Well I dug through my stack of books and I think I found what your talking about! Computer Literacy Bookshop 520 Lawrence Expressway Sunnyvale,CA 94086 (408) 730-9955 I found this in a back issue of Micro Cornicopia and said that they had about every tech book known and could find ones not known. Sounds like your place. Hope this helps. How about everyone putting together a list of their favorite sources for books, surplus parts, ect. I'm sure everyone could get use from it. Terry L Ruppe Msg#:27606 *INK* 04/15/90 18:46:46 From: FIL CHADWICK To: SYSOP (Rcvd) Subj: DS1202 SERIAL CLOCK INK 10/89 Tech Deck included Dallas Semiconductor DS1202 as a Tech Tip. It did not include source/cost of chip or address for copy of specs. Available? Unable find source so far. Also in same Tech Deck was Maxim Integrated Products MAX630 in a glitch- less uninterruptable plus 5v supply. Made to order for para one. Again no source/cost of chip or addr for specs. Available? Have located some MAX chips but not this one. Fil Msg#:27666 *INK* 04/16/90 14:48:19 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: FIL CHADWICK (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 27606 (DS1202 SERIAL CLOCK) The Tech Tip cards aren't meant to be complete manufacturer catalogs or techical data sheets. They are simply quick tips to highlight a new or unique chip or circuit. We assume the reader has the resources to obtain more information from the manufacturer listed on the card. In any case, these are the addresses for Dallas Semiconductor and Maxim: Dallas Semiconductor Maxim Integrated Products, Inc. 4350 Beltwood Pkwy South 120 San Gabriel Drive Dallas, TX 75244-3219 Sunnyvale, CA 94086 (214) 450-0400 (408) 737-7600 Msg#:27741 *INK* 04/17/90 23:31:23 From: FIL CHADWICK To: KEN DAVIDSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 27666 (DS1202 SERIAL CLOCK) THANKS FOR HELP, AT LEAST NOW CAN WRITE. THANKS FIL Msg#:27700 *INK* 04/17/90 03:11:33 From: RICH KINSLOW To: ALL Subj: SCSI how about the complete driver instead of the subroutines. I don't know these other details but would really like to use the scsi as an alternative to getting data into the MAC (Mac II). Can someone help?? I'm on America Online as richk17, as another way to reach me. Thanks and have a good one! Msg#:27726 *INK* 04/17/90 17:10:25 From: ROBERT OLIVIER To: PAUL SHUBEL (Rcvd) Subj: Z8 I don't think that floating A8-A15 problem is a bug but rather a poor design decision. If you hate having to put your init code up top as much as I do, you should look into the new z8691 and 86c91 cmos. These parts boot with port 0 configured for A8-A15 and make life much simpler. Another great feature is the all 256 of the internal registers have been implemented so you get a little extra space. If you keep using the 81 though, be careful when you configure port 0 after reset. I have found that you must execute a JP instruction in order to set the program counter for high memory. It thinks it's running in low memory so if you don't explicitly load the PC, when you set up the P01M register, it will fall down into low memory right after it executes the intstructions in the pipeline. This has caused me great pain in the past. The Zilog book is real vague on this and seems to say that one needs to load port 0 with the initial value before the P01M setup. i.e. LD 0,#%0f but this wont work since it is only setting the output PORT latches, not the PC. Good Luck! Msg#:27843 *INK* 04/21/90 00:19:53 From: STEVE BUNCH To: DALE NASSAR (Rcvd) Subj: COMPUTER-GENERATED HOLOGRAMS Dale, I enjoyed the article about computer-generated holograms a lot. It wasn't clear to me from the article how you actually go about viewing the holograms after you have them on film. I have a He-Ne laser and took 35mm shots of both my Mac screen running a version of your program and shots of the magazine. The only image I'm getting is so small that it's a point (or else an artifact) - I can't see it! So how do you go about viewing it, and taking photographs of the virtual image? FYI, I came across a paper (referenced in a holography book) about this subject: "Computer holograms with a desk-top calculator", by James S. Marsh and Richard C. Smith, in American Journal of Physics, Vol. 44, No. 8, Aug. 1976 (!). In the article, they generate stick letters by directly evaluating the Fourier transforms of the line segments making up the letters at each point in the hologram plane. Seems complementary to your article. Thanks. Steve Msg#:27846 *INK* 04/21/90 04:03:04 From: DALE NASSAR To: STEVE BUNCH (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 27843 (COMPUTER-GENERATED HOLOGRAMS) Steve, To view the real image of the pattern of photo 6, you should use an uncollimated laser beam. Place the hologram pattern far enough away from the laser so that the beam covers most of the pattern (around 20 feet for my laser) and the real image should be projected onto a screen (or whatever) about 15 feet beyond the hologram--hold a piece of paper in the beam's path and walk down with it until you get a good image. The image you see should be as good as photo 5a. The photos of the reconstructions in the article were not nearly as good as they could have been, but the schedule was very tight and I did not have time to re-shoot them. These distances are so large because of the course structure of the pattern. To see the virtual image, you have to really know what you are looking for and where to look--it is very small and distant but can be seen by looking through the film toward the laser. Because this is an offset hologram, the laser beam will just miss your eye. I had originally planned to make holograms with a ultra-high resolution plotter, but didn't have time. This would produce better virtual images. I was really surprised at how good the holographic images came out--I think it is amazing that a flat monochrome pattern can produce a TRUE 3D image. Also full color holograms have been made by using three lasers (red, green, and blue). With my synthesizing method I should be able to create holograms that can be viewed in white light. This would be done by assigning continuous wavelengths using integration over the continuous spectrum (as compared to the summation of the three laser colors) thus simulating coherent white light (see the cover of INK). --Dale Msg#:27873 *INK* 04/22/90 01:32:51 From: STEVE BUNCH To: DALE NASSAR (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 27846 (COMPUTER-GENERATED HOLOGRAMS) Dale, Thanks. Will try it out tomorrow. Have in the meantime refined my Mac program. It now generates gray-scale pixels (128 levels). I'm looking forward to see what kind of difference this yields. The paper I mentioned last time used a spread, then re-collimated laser for readout, as near as I could tell (they were a bit vague), and referred to using a negative f.l. lens to spread the beam to enlarge the virtual image. I've just started playing with this, so I'll let you know if I have any useful results. Steve Msg#:27881 *INK* 04/22/90 04:57:50 From: DALE NASSAR To: STEVE BUNCH (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 27873 (COMPUTER-GENERATED HOLOGRAMS) Steve, In theory, the main reason to preserve a gray scale is to prevent higher order diffractions during reconstruction. It is undesirable for higher order (first, second, etc.) diffracted images to be superimposed on the primary (zero order) reconstructed image. Because I did not record a gray scale, I assumed that the higher order diffractions would appear in the reconstruction, so I used diffraction grating equations to determined minimum fringe spacing so that the main image is just separated from the others. To my surprise, in the reconstruction the higher order diffractions were almost non-existant even with the binary nature of the holograms (maybe because the "black" portions of the hologram were not completely opaque). So I would think that using a gray scale should have little effect on the reconstructions-- but as I have learned in this project, never assume anything until you try it. I haven't tried this, so please let me know how it turns out. In Listing 2, the "trigger point" of the film is determined in line 110 (s=0). Because just about any level can be assigned here, there are no unique patterns for any one subject--this is interesting especially when considering the coarseness of the pattern. I used 0 because it was the natural first choice based on amplitudes. You may want to try other values here. One extreme should yield a mostly opaque pattern and the other a mostly clear one. Also, the pattern (on the video display) produced by the gray-scale interference should be interesting. Let me know what results you get. --Dale Msg#:27955 *INK* 04/24/90 00:07:22 From: STEVE BUNCH To: DALE NASSAR (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 27881 (COMPUTER-GENERATED HOLOGRAMS) Dale, Success finally. The real image was where it was supposed to be. I've been struggling with a balky laser (the home-made mount for the tube changes with temperature, and the tube goes out of alignment and fades) and aligning front-surface mirrors in the basement to get a long enough optical path to do it indoors. My one outdoor experiment last night was fun for the neighbors, but too much of a hassle. It's pretty impressive to see the image come into focus as you approach the focal point. I still haven't found a recognizable virtual image, though. My images are not as clean as the ones in your article. Two of the lobes are quite good, the third is very noisy and buried in trash (the direct feed-thru of the beam, at least partly). The entire field (at the focal point of the image) has a lot of noise in it. I made a couple of other shapes (circle of dots and a simple point). The point was fine, but I had too many dots in the circle, which made them hard to see. Some of the problem is probably that I didn't mask the edges accurately, so there was more light coming around the hologram than desired. I'll clean up the details a bit and see how much that helps. My Macintosh program is working well. It allows you to save the raw pixel data at any point in the computation, and come back later to finish it. I put in the ability to generate the hologram using not just black and white (Fresnel) patterns, but gray scale ("Gabor") as well, where each point on the hologram can be any of 128 gray levels ranging linearly from black to white. Unfortunately, my experiments with it were pretty much a disaster. I got some artifacts which, if I knew exactly how to analyze them, would probably tell me exactly what was wrong with my monitor's linearity and my camera angle... I'm guessing that it's more critical to get every pixel exactly as it's supposed to be. At any rate, more experimentation is called for. I'm displaying the images on a color monitor, and there may also be some effects from the shadow mask. (I was using a sharp macro lens and good resolution film (T-MAX).) It takes the program about 30 minutes to compute the figure in your article, at the same resolution, running on a Mac IICX. The program is written in Think C, and uses a public domain application skeleton called Transkel to handle the boring stuff with windows and such. I just read your note (the above was written offline). The gray scale patterns are in fact delightful to look at. I'll do some playing with the "trip point", too. Thanks again for the article. My next experiment is going to be to generate some block letters and polygons directly from their Fourier transforms. I'll let you know how it works. Steve Msg#:28051 *INK* 04/25/90 23:35:42 From: STEVE BUNCH To: DALE NASSAR (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 27881 (COMPUTER-GENERATED HOLOGRAMS) Dale, Tried again on the gray-scale holograms with much better results. Turns out I had taken the shots closer to the screen, so the focal distance out to the real image was longer and I didn't go out that far last time. Got some extremely nicely focused points - much clearer than I've seen so far. However, I have the same problem with both the b/w and gray versions: lots of undiffracted light (Or at least unfocused by the hologram) feeding straight thru to the field. The vast majority of my energy isn't going into the pattern at all, but is showing up as patterned noise. I got a very noticable improvement when I improved the alignment of the hologram, laser beam, and mirrors, but it was still not nearly as good as it could be. (E.g., the gray-scale one had *really* sharp dots - it was a 7 points in a circle - surrounding a rectangle of red murk.) I'm going to play some games with lenses to reduce the size of the playing field a bit and see if alignment or mirrors or something like that is causing trouble. Cheers. Steve Msg#:28093 *INK* 04/27/90 07:50:25 From: DALE NASSAR To: STEVE BUNCH (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 28051 (COMPUTER-GENERATED HOLOGRAMS) Steve, Sounds like you're reproducing the images as well as can be expected without additional optics. The reason I suggest viewing the offset hologram in the article is so that the straight-thru beam will be separated from the image at the focal length. I think I oriented the rose so that the beam would pass between lobes if the separation between the image and the laser beam was small. Although there is a theoretically ideal pattern size for a given set of parameters, I don't think it is very critical in practice (as you noted when you obtained a longer focal length with an oversized pattern)--you may want to try to get a smaller focal length by illuminating a reduced-scale pattern. What kind of resolution can you get on your Mac? If it is high enough you may be able to produce small high resolution holograms with a viewable virtual image. It seems that these long focal-length real images may be an ideal basis for a laser-writing projection system using many sequential frames of the computer-generated holograms. To see how it works out, I may make several more with much longer focal lengths (which will have coarser--easier to draw--patterns). --Dale Msg#:28111 *INK* 04/28/90 01:22:36 From: STEVE BUNCH To: DALE NASSAR (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 28093 (COMPUTER-GENERATED HOLOGRAMS) Dale, Thanks for the reply. I have done a little more experimenting, but so far, the image seems to be about as good as it's going to get - as you said. I've had some unexplained non-results which I need to work on some more (some patterns just aren't generating an image at anywhere near the correct focal plane, but similar ones do). My Mac display will do 640x480, 256 gray levels (though my present program only does 128). I was wondering what kind of negative density you're working with. I've been using a "normal" as opposed to high-contrast film, so the d-max I get on the black isn't as dark as you might like. Some feed-through may be attributable to that factor too. I'd be interested in what happens with your idea of laser-writing. I have access to lots and lots of idle MIPS of processing power, if that becomes a bottleneck. I was very interested in trying to get viewable virtual images, because I wanted to try for some genuine 3-D effects. I'd be interested in ideas for how to do that. Steve Msg#:28374 *INK* 05/07/90 03:59:57 From: DALE NASSAR To: STEVE BUNCH (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 28111 (COMPUTER-GENERATED HOLOGRAMS) Steve, I seem to get better images with a contrast index of 2 or greater (which I think is relatively high) this improves the fringe visibility by increasing its modulation. I like to use Technical Pan film because it is also ideal for photographing laser-reconstructed holographic images in general due to its sensitivity at the He-Ne laser wavelength. I noticed that when I tried to produce the image when the film wasn't completely dry, I got nothing. I initially exposed the holograms (snapped the pictures) with an exposure index of 100 and developed them with Kodak developer HC-110 (Dil B) for 8-12 minutes. I got further improvement by overexposing some of the shots to increase the contrast. I would like very much to produce high-res holograms that would create a decent virtual image. Perhaps we could use several computers to produce fragments of the entire file on disk (to cut computing time). The multi-head laser plotter that Circuit Cellar uses sounds ideal. You may have read about a curious property in the real image of a transmission hologram called pseudoscopy. I won't go into the details here but this is a strange sort of distortion that gives the image an "inside-out" appearance. The effect can also be seen by reversing the photos in the old 3D stereo viewers. To investigate pseudoscopy in the computer-generated holograms, I wrote a graphics program that generates the two stereo views of a computer-generated mathematical surface. The images are color-coded and viewed with the red-blue 3D glasses. If I reversed the color filters then I should see a pseudoscopic (distorted) image-- surprise! the image was not distorted. It changed position (the view shifted from top to bottom or vise-versa) very strange indeed. It turns out that the image was not distorted because I didn't remove the hidden lines. I kept the hidden lines because when the glasses are used to view the surface, the "hidden" pixels are shifted into or out of the screen plane, and to remove them subtracts from the image. The images produced by this program turned out much better than I expected (they weren't holographic, of course). One of the surface plots appeared to straddle the screen, projecting several inches into and out of the screen. It was "really wicked" as one viewer put it. Many hours went into deriving the equations but the results were well worth the effort. For the laser writing, I think that some of the mechanisms from old main-frame drives have the precision and power to drive a mirror for suitably deflecting a laser beam. I haven't tried this yet. Speakers and low-cost galvanometers (like the type used to make patterns in light shows) don't seem to work for writing. --Dale Msg#:28492 *INK* 05/11/90 00:10:15 From: STEVE BUNCH To: DALE NASSAR (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 28374 (COMPUTER-GENERATED HOLOGRAMS) Dale, I'll try boosting contrast. I have some 35mm Kodalith, which is pretty hard to beat for contrast. I normally developed the Tmax in Tmax liquid developer, which gives a very normal (maybe even soft) negative. If you'd like to try something compute intensive, please let me know. There are some Motorola 88000 and 68030 machines at work that could use something useful in their idle loop. I also know of a 32K processor Connection Machine that's still in its acceptance phase, so time on it isn't being charged for yet... Might be tricky to get time on it, but it's probably possible as long as the objective is an interesting picture. (It belongs to some people who are very much into that). It's been so long since I used my math background that I'm going to have to go dig out some physics books and re-learn some more optics. (I'm a computer software person by trade, and don't do much continuous mathematics any more... If it takes more than 1's and 0's, I fall into "yeah, I remember seeing that in Physics 101, but that was mmmmph years ago..." mode.) This has been fun, though. Steve Msg#:28493 *INK* 05/11/90 00:41:34 From: STEVE BUNCH To: DALE NASSAR (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 28374 (COMPUTER-GENERATED HOLOGRAMS) Dale, Oops. The old 100' roll of Kodalith in the fridge was ortho... I'll have to go get some Tech Pan. I suspect that the film contrast is probably a good explanation for why my holograms aren't as crisp as the ones in your article. Or a partial one, anyway. Lots of light can probably punch through the not-so-opaque film. Have you ever tried anything like bleaching the hologram to get highly refractive exposed areas? If the laser angle was non-oblique, couldn't you diffract the unwanted light off the hologram axis completely, or is that what would happen? (You'd have to compute the hologram for the non-oblique illumination angle.) Msg#:28503 *INK* 05/11/90 12:37:11 From: DALE NASSAR To: STEVE BUNCH (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 28493 (COMPUTER-GENERATED HOLOGRAMS) Steve, I first tried that super high contrast/resolution Ektragraphic HC slide film but it turned out that I could get enough contrast with TMAX or Tech Pan by overexposing it. For making the high resolution holograms for viewing virtual images I'll probably use the Ektragraphic mainly for its resolving power. I have only bleached film on the standard transmission type holograms made with a laser. Boy were they bright! The virtual images were the best I have ever seen--it looked like they approached 100% efficiency. I have always wanted to use a computer like the connection machine to generate transmission holograms of computer-generated surfaces. Is that the big black cube with the processors connected in the BOOLEAN N-CUBE configuration with all the flashing LED's? TAB books called me after the Circuit Cellar INK article came out and wanted me to consider writing a book on the subject--If I do this I would like to illustrate some decent synthetic virtual images. I think the best book for background theory is "Fundamentals of Physical Optics" by Jenkins and White (first edition 1937). Yes, that was before the time of the laser and even the first Gabor hologram, but it seems that these guys had the theory of holography at their fingertips. --Dale Msg#:28560 *INK* 05/13/90 00:29:16 From: JOHN MUCHOW To: DALE NASSAR (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 28503 (COMPUTER-GENERATED HOLOGRAMS) Overexposing your film will increase its density but won't increase the contrast any (with normal development). The increased density will make for better blacks but your lighter tones will become darker too. Try overexposing AND underdeveloping your negs. The overexposure wil ensure that the lighter tones will go REALLY black on your negs and underdeveloping will ensure that the film will not record any of the medium to dark tones it sees (the film will go clear). This will stretch your contrast ratio a LOT. Try 1-3 stops overexposure and 25-50% underdeveloping for a starter. Let me know if it helps!! Msg#:28561 *INK* 05/13/90 00:57:31 From: JOHN MUCHOW To: DALE NASSAR (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 28503 (COMPUTER-GENERATED HOLOGRAMS) OK THIS TIME I TRY IT WITH MY EYES OPEN!! :-} You should UNDERexpose to make sure that the darker tones are not recorded on the film (resulting in clear areas on the neg) and OVERdevelop to increase the negatives density where the lighter tones exposed the film. This will increase your contrast. Try 1-3 stops UNDERexposure and 50% or more OVERdevelopment. NOW I remember why my assistant did the darkroom stuff!! Msg#:28567 *INK* 05/13/90 04:48:52 From: DALE NASSAR To: JOHN MUCHOW (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 28560 (COMPUTER-GENERATED HOLOGRAMS) John, I took the photographs in a dark room with only a dim illumanation of the CRT so even for an overexposure I got no noticable darkening in the unexposed areas. I developed the film for the maximum specified time--sometimes a little over. My very first shots were "standard" and produced the soft gray type negatives. These films also produced good holographic images. So, I guess I really didn't see a world of difference--not as much as I expected, anyway--in the holographic image. I did learn a little about taking pictures :) --Dale Msg#:28571 *INK* 05/13/90 12:12:57 From: STEVE BUNCH To: DALE NASSAR (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 28503 (COMPUTER-GENERATED HOLOGRAMS) Dale, Yes, the Connection Machine is the cube with all the LED's. I'll have to check and see what output devices they have available. I know there's a film recorder of some kind, though. A friend of mine has an account on a different one (up at Argonne National Labs), but I don't know how much time he could use. If you'd like to try it, I'll contact the people who control the local machine and see about getting some manuals. It's a pain to program, but this is not a large program so it shouldn't be a large job. If you'd like to contact me directly, give me a call. (217)344-0456 (HOME), (217)384-8515 (work). I'll go see if I can check out a copy of that book from the University library. Thanks. Steve Msg#:28039 *INK* 04/25/90 11:00:51 From: EVAN HOLLANDER To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: LASER DIODES Steve, Just wondering but were the mirrors used for your driveway laser first surface or second. I was considering building a laser fence around the back yard and it would require 4 mirrors and the beam would need to traversere about 250 feet all total. Do you think your arrangement will work over this distance and will second surface mirrors be sufficent? Thanks, Evan. Msg#:28043 *INK* 04/25/90 13:30:39 From: STEVE CIARCIA To: EVAN HOLLANDER (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 28039 (LASER DIODES) Forget using lasers with anything but FIRST SURFACE mirrors. Second surface mirrors will degrade transmission terribly. In my experience reflecting off 4 mirrors for 250 feet in all kinds of weater might be touchy. It's bad enough going direct :-) Personally, I limited myself to one reflector but, now that my house is surrounded by 4 out buildings (2 car garage, 3 car garage and shop, greenhouse, and potting shed), I'm going to revamp the system this summer with direct-line perimeter between the 4 outer buildings. My big problem now is deciding whether to buy a commercial outdoor IR system or spend the time to build all the transmitters and receivers myself. --Steve Msg#:28085 *INK* 04/26/90 20:32:26 From: DAVID K. MERRIMAN To: CURT FRANKLIN (Rcvd) Subj: SCHEMATIC FORMATS I think that I read a message to the efffect that you don't offer schematics for downloading because of all the different schematic programs available. Might I suggest that you accept schematic files, as long as they are in a "translatable" format; ie, DXF, IGES, etc. Mosto of the CAD packages I've seen (Schema, OrCad, AutoCad, DesignCad, etc) either accept, or have a utility that converts, files in one (or more) other formats. Right now, I've got access to Schema, OrCad and AutoCad, so a schematic file in just about any format would be usable.... Might even spawn a whole new series of uploads as people write utilities that do conversions from one format to another...... Dave Merriman Msg#:28097 *INK* 04/27/90 08:54:37 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: DAVID K. MERRIMAN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 28085 (SCHEMATIC FORMATS) If you know of a program that will convert from OrCAD (all versions) to Schema and back again, I'd like to see it. Schematic packages (real ones, anyway) don't simply put dots or lines on the screen like a paint or drawing program. They have libraries of parts, configuration files, and page files. A single schematic page may actually be made up of three separate files, and there usually isn't a one-to-one correspondence between those files across different packages. There are other issues against posting schematic files here and they've been covered numerous times in the public message areas. I still stand by my opinion that trying to post schematics is more trouble than it's worth. Msg#:28100 *INK* 04/27/90 12:17:25 From: JEFF BACHIOCHI To: DAVID K. MERRIMAN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 28085 (SCHEMATIC FORMATS) David, Not to mention size! Which is OK for us local-yokels but would you down load a 200k file across country just to see what it was. I'll bet we could fill the system up pretty quick with files people wanted to post. If there is too much JUNK on the system, the high standards of the BBS fall. jeff Msg#:28126 *INK* 04/29/90 02:05:42 From: DAVID K. MERRIMAN To: KEN DAVIDSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 28097 (SCHEMATIC FORMATS) I know that OrCad will optionally output a number of formats; further, I know that a number of the other CAD programs will accept one (or more) of those formats. I've only been using Schema for a few weeks, now, but I do remember from the manual that Schema will output DFX (AutoCad) files, with the option of simply drawing lines, or having the part as one integral unit (vice discrete lines). All I'm suggesting is that it might be worth a try- it's easier to read a schematic (even if drawn only as a "painted" image) than it is to describe a circuit with 20 pounds of verbiage. Also note that I suggested that there might be a few hardy (foolhardy?) souls out there that would undertake the tasks of writing "conversion" programs. <]Dave[> Msg#:28127 *INK* 04/29/90 02:11:18 From: DAVID K. MERRIMAN To: JEFF BACHIOCHI (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 28100 (SCHEMATIC FORMATS) Ever hear of ARC? Or file descriptions ("DXF schematic file for CCInk project XXXXX")? I'm not suggesting that EVERYTHING get posted; perhaps it could be limited to just those schematics that are published in CCInk- I know that I've had a problem or two piecing together 3 or 4 separate pieces of the same project schematic; it would have been nice to download the schematic in WHATVER format (DXF, HPGL text file, IGES, ....), and print/plot it out at my own convenience, at whatever size my own taste dictated. <]Dave[> Msg#:28694 *INK* 05/16/90 15:23:47 From: MARK DAMISH To: DAVID K. MERRIMAN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 28085 (SCHEMATIC FORMATS) For just sending a "picture" of a schematic across BBS's, might I suggest HPGL (H.P. plotter output). Most all schematic capture programs support this output, and it compresses nicely. There are free and not so free programs to output the HPGL file to most printers out there, so it would be an easy way to get a "copy" of some-one elses schematic. HPGL is also "read" by many CAD packages and a few word processers. Mark +? Msg#:28701 *INK* 05/16/90 19:00:32 From: DALE NASSAR To: MARK DAMISH (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 28694 (SCHEMATIC FORMATS) That sounds good. I'm compatable with that format. --Dale Msg#:28104 *INK* 04/27/90 14:07:12 From: MIKE CHAPMAN To: ED NISLEY (Rcvd) Subj: RADIOACTIVE RANDOMS I am a technician at Fermilab in Batavia, Il. We monitor radiation in the accelerator. Your article on the subject has caused some interest in those events. You say in the article that you have files of your stats. Help! I tried but couldn't find them in the files section of the bbs. We have been accumulating similar data from monitors located around the machine and we would like to compare that data with yours. Any help would be much appreciated. Thank You, Mike Chapman Msg#:28173 *INK* 04/30/90 09:30:18 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: MIKE CHAPMAN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 28104 (RADIOACTIVE RANDOMS) Ed simply said that he had the files on his computer, but we have no intention posting them (the amount of room they'd take up compared to how much interest there would be in them doesn't make it worthwhile). He says there is one file that has a limited number of samples that is posted already (in file area 1). If you want the complete data files, you'll have to negotiate directly with him for a disk swap. Msg#:28504 *INK* 05/11/90 12:52:32 From: ED NISLEY To: MIKE CHAPMAN Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 28104 (RADIOACTIVE RANDOMS) (Apologizing for the delay...) I'm not sure how comparable my readings would be with yours, because I'm recording seconds between counts rather than the counts per minute. Of course, you could get from one to the other, but... If the data in the files area doesn't help, send me your name & address and I'll ship you a diskette with some compressed data. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Msg#:28223 *INK* 05/01/90 18:03:40 From: MARK BALCH To: CURT FRANKLIN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 27932 (PAL/PLD) Curt, do you guys have the Cypress CMOS data book? They have a pretty good description of the programming pinouts and methods for the simpler PALs and GALS. The hard part is the fuse map generating which isn't hardware but software. From a first glance, it seemed pretty "easy" to do. But there are other PALs that are really good (TI makes some amazing ones like State MAchines and all) but I haven't gotten programmign info yet. Bye...Mark Msg#:28255 *INK* 05/02/90 21:39:38 From: JAY HICKS To: JEFF BACHIOCHI (Rcvd) Subj: SMALLEST-AT CLONE Good article Jeff ! I am accused occasionaly by family and friends alike of trying to start my own personal computer museum. Oh well ! That article really hit the spot, it looks like I will have another project now to hold me over to the next one. That AT-Clone is perfect for a Home Monitoring System. I just finished one based on the BCC52, but of course I had grander ideas floating around my head (using an AT). I am especially interested in the CEBus or SYNQ interface. So I will be looking forward to every article based on this new project. Keep up the good work and I think my better half has my schemes pretty well figured out, but I keep trying new strategies. Msg#:28280 *INK* 05/03/90 08:20:04 From: JEFF BACHIOCHI To: JAY HICKS (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 28255 (SMALLEST-AT CLONE) Jay, My wife is getting a bit itchy or should I say B*tchy. The weather's getting warmer here but not one shovel full of dirt has been moved! Meanwhile, our neighbors are getting new decks, porches, and garages. We'll need a new roof soon if the pressure is not relieved. Thanks for your comments, its nice to know your not alone! jeff Msg#:28295 *INK* 05/04/90 00:54:48 From: DICK FULLER To: ALL Subj: GAME PORT About a year ago I had the pleasure of using some software that worked with the game port. I should say it read the game port. I think it was written in C and it was part of an article discussing the speed needed to to a good job reading the game port. I can't find the program and it is driving me KNUTZ. I think I downloaded the software either from this board or MicroC's board. I have searched for "game" and can't find it. Can anyone help??? Msg#:28307 *INK* 05/04/90 09:15:42 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: DICK FULLER (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 28295 (GAME PORT) It sounds like you're looking for Ed's Firware Furnace column from issue #4 (July/August 1988) of INK. The code is in a file called JOYSTICK.ARC and is in file area 1. Msg#:28548 *INK* 05/12/90 03:14:51 From: DICK FULLER To: KEN DAVIDSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 28307 (GAME PORT) How right you are. I finally found the program here at home. Ended up writing my own in basic. What I'm doing is trying to measure the discharge rate of nicad batterys by using the game port. I have it working but I'm not satisfied with the linearity. Thanks for your message if I hadn't found it here you would have been a life saver. As it is I still appreciated your message... Msg#:28309 *INK* 05/04/90 09:51:57 From: TOM CANTRELL To: STAN EKER (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 25308 (I/O BENCHMARKS???) High level I/O benchmarks are quite feasible - I'm quite interested in how long it takes to copy a file, scroll the screen, etc. If floating point is what you are mostly interested in, floating point benchmarks are fine. Msg#:28370 *INK* 05/07/90 01:02:21 From: STAN EKER To: TOM CANTRELL (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 28309 (I/O BENCHMARKS???) My only bitch about I/O benchmarks is the lack of a valid standard. Once the processor speed is sufficiently faster than the I/O resources, it makes some sort of sense to look at the limiting factors to speed. Until the processor outstrips the I/O, though, it's a lousy mix of the two. Video updates are keyed to DMA or whatever you're using to move the screen, a heavily processor dependant operation. Motorola's chips should outshine the junk from Intel in memory moves since Motorola's always done nicer things for programmers than Intel has (old gripe). Unless you can come up with something that'll plug into the myriad different busses with the profusion of micros and buss specs, you don't have a benchmark, just a feel for which one does better at which simple task. Msg#:28442 *INK* 05/09/90 09:22:01 From: TOM CANTRELL To: STAN EKER (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 28370 (I/O BENCHMARKS???) Most 'non-scientific' (i.e. non-#crunching) applications are I/O bound - the worst culprit being disk drives. After all, even an 8-bit chip like the '180 can outrun a typical hard disk ('180 DMA = 1+Mbyte/sec vs. ST-506 = 5mbit/sec). Plugging in a 68000 won't make the disk spin faster. In fact, my original Mac hooked the HD to a serial port with expected sloth-like results. So, an assumption that a 'faster' CPU automatically makes I/O faster is dubious. Also, the emergence of 'co-processors' degrades the importance of the main CPU further. For a fast screen, would you rather have a 25Mhz '030 or a 16Mhz '030 + 33Mhz 29000 graphics board ? Msg#:28520 *INK* 05/11/90 14:47:09 From: ED NISLEY To: TOM CANTRELL (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 28442 (I/O BENCHMARKS???) Hear, hear! Remember the tirade I wrote a while back about caching? Saddling a nominally fast processor with slow memory gives you pretty much the expected result, too! Msg#:28680 *INK* 05/16/90 09:02:22 From: TOM CANTRELL To: ED NISLEY (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 28520 (I/O BENCHMARKS???) Another problem with benchmarks is these days they are usually written in C. So, I think benchmarks often say more about how good the compiler, rather than the chip, is. In my experience, compiler quality far outweighs chip performance. I'd rather have a good compiler on a bad chip than vice versa. Msg#:28743 *INK* 05/17/90 20:00:23 From: ED NISLEY To: TOM CANTRELL (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 28680 (I/O BENCHMARKS???) There's a good article on optimizing in the new (first!) PC Techniques pointing out that a good algorithm beats a good compiler hands down every time. Basically, you have to know what you're doing and what parts to worry about; once you have the right approach, the compiler can worry about the tiddly details and do effective small-scale optimizations. Msg#:28943 *INK* 05/22/90 01:54:06 From: STAN EKER To: TOM CANTRELL (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 28442 (I/O BENCHMARKS???) The slower chip + co-processor would LIKELY run faster, but is the software you want to run available on a 68K platform? In bygone days, the computer determined the software, yet now the end application decides the processor. The benchmarks are valid for a vendor developing packages that slow the core to a crawl, but matter little if you have to have a different chip to run your favorite software. Secretaries and other pencil pushers are locked to IBM frames, artists (graphic and otherwise) are pretty well set on 68K machines, and engineers will use anything that makes the job faster and simpler (currently, IBM). From personal prejudice, I'd rather the coming wave supported Motorola instead of Intel just 'cos of the differences in how they do business. Intel couldn't give a hoot about the customer, and Batwings Inc. at least tries to help. I've never worked for either house (and won't), but some of the stuff Intel's done over the years would do justice to the old steel magnates. Msg#:28310 *INK* 05/04/90 09:57:34 From: TOM CANTRELL To: MARK BALCH (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 26705 (WHICH FAMILY?) Admittedly, In my first few articles I haven't covered a Motorola chip - but I plan to do so soon. It is not really true that 'people avoid the Motorola parts' - indeed, the Motorola parts you mention contend for leadership with Intel. I would say that while the Motorola parts compete with Intel/Z80/etc. in unit sales, the latter family has more (especially smaller) customers. This might contribute to your perception. Msg#:28339 *INK* 05/05/90 15:47:52 From: MARK BALCH To: TOM CANTRELL (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 28310 (WHICH FAMILY?) Yes, then that's probably it; the fact that Z80/80xx has more "hardware hackers" than do the 68xx products. As you and others have said though, its what you like and what you are comfortable with. I'd be using them too probably had I found a book called "Basic Microprocessors and the Z80" instead of "Basic Microprocessors and the 6800." Ce la vie! Bye...Mark Msg#:28341 *INK* 05/05/90 15:56:19 From: MARK BALCH To: ED NISLEY (Rcvd) Subj: IMAGEWISE SYNC DETECTION Hi Ed, I wrote you a reply about a week or so ago, but it might have gotten lost. I'm planning to implement a simpler version of Imagewise as you suggested since it seems to be within my capabilities. I have a question though concerning the Imagewise SYNC detect/processing circuitry. What are the 'LS221 one-shots for? They are tied together with the first receiving its pulse from the SYNC detect line and the other's output driving a DETECT2 line. I know that the VSYNC/HSYNC differentiation is dine in software, but why is a delayed (?) SYNC pulse needed for the system? Thanks! Bye...Mark Msg#:28516 *INK* 05/11/90 14:46:10 From: ED NISLEY To: MARK BALCH (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 28341 (IMAGEWISE SYNC DETECTION) No, your message didn't get lost... I did. I've been hiding out in my office, working on a new hot project that I can't talk about. As I point out to Steve, I'm doing my best work when I'm invisible -- if I'm around, nothing good is going down. Msg#:28810 *INK* 05/19/90 15:30:01 From: MARK BALCH To: ED NISLEY (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 28516 (IMAGEWISE SYNC DETECTION) Has CCINK become a branch of the CIA, then? I am looking foreward to your project in INK, if its this secret then it has to be interesting! Bye...Mark Msg#:28357 *INK* 05/06/90 14:49:40 From: THERON G. BURROUGH To: PL513,X10 FOLK Subj: QUESTION RE:PL513 INTERFA Read Ken Davidson's article in Vol. 1, No. 3 on how to use a parallel connector, a PL513 and a nickel's worth of wire to get my PC to transmit PLC codes (pinch me, am I awake?) and wonder if anyone has come up with a means of protecting the parallel adapter from the possible damage Ken warned about. (If your software doesn't prevent the four driver outputs from having different states, the adapter may cook because they were tied together so as to sink the necessary 4.5 mA). My PC being my livelihood, I'm afraid my general inexperience might get me into trouble. Thanks very much. Msg#:28384 *INK* 05/07/90 10:06:02 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: THERON G. BURROUGH (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 28357 (QUESTION RE:PL513 INTERFA) The only reason for tying four output lines together was to get enough current to drive the PL513 module. If you simply add a transistor or a buffer chip to a single printer output line, you can eliminate the problem. You end up adding a bit of complexity by using the extra components, though (you have to power the transistor or buffer somehow). Msg#:28519 *INK* 05/11/90 14:46:53 From: ED NISLEY To: KEN DAVIDSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 28384 (QUESTION RE:PL513 INTERFA) And the reason we didn't use the transistor originally was simply that I couldn't pass up the opportunity to have a zero-circuitry interface. If I remember correctly, a single output wasn't quite stiff enough to drive the module, but four of them were. I picked the four that got set to the right value by the BIOS test, but that obviously doesn't apply if you connect the module after printing anything. Msg#:28362 *INK* 05/06/90 18:21:12 From: HARRY KOLBE To: CURT FRANKLIN (Rcvd) Subj: PROGRAMMING DSCOPE PALS Following your suggestion in your response to our message posted 3/13/90, we have sent a letter addressed to Russell Lindgren c/o Circuit Cellar Inc. The letter requested help in programming the PAL's for the D-Scope project. To date we have had no response. Apparently Mr. Lindgren is not available. Can you suggest an alternative? We have built the project and would very much like to get it up and running. Thank you, Harry Kolbe Msg#:28392 *INK* 05/07/90 11:39:20 From: CURT FRANKLIN To: HARRY KOLBE (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 28362 (PROGRAMMING DSCOPE PALS) I'm sorry that you haven't been successful with your contact attempt. Let me do some poking around. If you haven't heard from me in about a week, please remind me that I owe you an answer. Curt Msg#:28399 *INK* 05/07/90 15:32:27 From: HARRY KOLBE To: CURT FRANKLIN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 28392 (PROGRAMMING DSCOPE PALS) Thanks for looking into this for me. I'm looking forward to hearing from you. Harry Msg#:28698 *INK* 05/16/90 17:18:04 From: HARRY KOLBE To: CURT FRANKLIN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 28392 (PROGRAMMING DSCOPE PALS) As per your message posted 5-7-90 in response to our request, we haven't heard from you to date so here is a reminder. Thanks Harry Msg#:28747 *INK* 05/17/90 20:02:06 From: ED NISLEY To: HARRY KOLBE (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 28698 (PROGRAMMING DSCOPE PALS) Curt is out with the gleep, so any replies will be next week-ish. Even head editors come down ill occasionally, believe it or not! Msg#:29585 *INK* 06/06/90 18:26:11 From: HARRY KOLBE To: CURT FRANKLIN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 28392 (PROGRAMMING DSCOPE PALS) Curt, Ed replyed to our last message saying that you were ill. Hopefully you're doing better now!! Well, Ed was replying to our reminder for you to look into our problem finding a source to program the PAL's for the D-Scope project. I'm assuming you didn't revieve my last message, so here is another reminder. If you can check into this for me it would be greatly appreciated. Thanks again. Stay well!! Harry Msg#:29599 *INK* 06/07/90 15:42:24 From: CURT FRANKLIN To: HARRY KOLBE (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 29585 (PROGRAMMING DSCOPE PALS) Thanks for the good wishes. The author of the article seems to have vanished, and I'm trying to track down other possibilities. Perhaps one of the other users of this BBS has a PAL programmer and would be willing to program the PALs for you. What about it folks? Any Good Samaritans out there? Curt Msg#:28374 *INK* 05/07/90 03:59:57 From: DALE NASSAR To: STEVE BUNCH (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 28111 (COMPUTER-GENERATED HOLOGRAMS) Steve, I seem to get better images with a contrast index of 2 or greater (which I think is relatively high) this improves the fringe visibility by increasing its modulation. I like to use Technical Pan film because it is also ideal for photographing laser-reconstructed holographic images in general due to its sensitivity at the He-Ne laser wavelength. I noticed that when I tried to produce the image when the film wasn't completely dry, I got nothing. I initially exposed the holograms (snapped the pictures) with an exposure index of 100 and developed them with Kodak developer HC-110 (Dil B) for 8-12 minutes. I got further improvement by overexposing some of the shots to increase the contrast. I would like very much to produce high-res holograms that would create a decent virtual image. Perhaps we could use several computers to produce fragments of the entire file on disk (to cut computing time). The multi-head laser plotter that Circuit Cellar uses sounds ideal. You may have read about a curious property in the real image of a transmission hologram called pseudoscopy. I won't go into the details here but this is a strange sort of distortion that gives the image an "inside-out" appearance. The effect can also be seen by reversing the photos in the old 3D stereo viewers. To investigate pseudoscopy in the computer-generated holograms, I wrote a graphics program that generates the two stereo views of a computer-generated mathematical surface. The images are color-coded and viewed with the red-blue 3D glasses. If I reversed the color filters then I should see a pseudoscopic (distorted) image-- surprise! the image was not distorted. It changed position (the view shifted from top to bottom or vise-versa) very strange indeed. It turns out that the image was not distorted because I didn't remove the hidden lines. I kept the hidden lines because when the glasses are used to view the surface, the "hidden" pixels are shifted into or out of the screen plane, and to remove them subtracts from the image. The images produced by this program turned out much better than I expected (they weren't holographic, of course). One of the surface plots appeared to straddle the screen, projecting several inches into and out of the screen. It was "really wicked" as one viewer put it. Many hours went into deriving the equations but the results were well worth the effort. For the laser writing, I think that some of the mechanisms from old main-frame drives have the precision and power to drive a mirror for suitably deflecting a laser beam. I haven't tried this yet. Speakers and low-cost galvanometers (like the type used to make patterns in light shows) don't seem to work for writing. --Dale Msg#:28492 *INK* 05/11/90 00:10:15 From: STEVE BUNCH To: DALE NASSAR (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 28374 (COMPUTER-GENERATED HOLOGRAMS) Dale, I'll try boosting contrast. I have some 35mm Kodalith, which is pretty hard to beat for contrast. I normally developed the Tmax in Tmax liquid developer, which gives a very normal (maybe even soft) negative. If you'd like to try something compute intensive, please let me know. There are some Motorola 88000 and 68030 machines at work that could use something useful in their idle loop. I also know of a 32K processor Connection Machine that's still in its acceptance phase, so time on it isn't being charged for yet... Might be tricky to get time on it, but it's probably possible as long as the objective is an interesting picture. (It belongs to some people who are very much into that). It's been so long since I used my math background that I'm going to have to go dig out some physics books and re-learn some more optics. (I'm a computer software person by trade, and don't do much continuous mathematics any more... If it takes more than 1's and 0's, I fall into "yeah, I remember seeing that in Physics 101, but that was mmmmph years ago..." mode.) This has been fun, though. Steve Msg#:28493 *INK* 05/11/90 00:41:34 From: STEVE BUNCH To: DALE NASSAR (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 28374 (COMPUTER-GENERATED HOLOGRAMS) Dale, Oops. The old 100' roll of Kodalith in the fridge was ortho... I'll have to go get some Tech Pan. I suspect that the film contrast is probably a good explanation for why my holograms aren't as crisp as the ones in your article. Or a partial one, anyway. Lots of light can probably punch through the not-so-opaque film. Have you ever tried anything like bleaching the hologram to get highly refractive exposed areas? If the laser angle was non-oblique, couldn't you diffract the unwanted light off the hologram axis completely, or is that what would happen? (You'd have to compute the hologram for the non-oblique illumination angle.) Msg#:28503 *INK* 05/11/90 12:37:11 From: DALE NASSAR To: STEVE BUNCH (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 28493 (COMPUTER-GENERATED HOLOGRAMS) Steve, I first tried that super high contrast/resolution Ektragraphic HC slide film but it turned out that I could get enough contrast with TMAX or Tech Pan by overexposing it. For making the high resolution holograms for viewing virtual images I'll probably use the Ektragraphic mainly for its resolving power. I have only bleached film on the standard transmission type holograms made with a laser. Boy were they bright! The virtual images were the best I have ever seen--it looked like they approached 100% efficiency. I have always wanted to use a computer like the connection machine to generate transmission holograms of computer-generated surfaces. Is that the big black cube with the processors connected in the BOOLEAN N-CUBE configuration with all the flashing LED's? TAB books called me after the Circuit Cellar INK article came out and wanted me to consider writing a book on the subject--If I do this I would like to illustrate some decent synthetic virtual images. I think the best book for background theory is "Fundamentals of Physical Optics" by Jenkins and White (first edition 1937). Yes, that was before the time of the laser and even the first Gabor hologram, but it seems that these guys had the theory of holography at their fingertips. --Dale Msg#:28560 *INK* 05/13/90 00:29:16 From: JOHN MUCHOW To: DALE NASSAR (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 28503 (COMPUTER-GENERATED HOLOGRAMS) Overexposing your film will increase its density but won't increase the contrast any (with normal development). The increased density will make for better blacks but your lighter tones will become darker too. Try overexposing AND underdeveloping your negs. The overexposure wil ensure that the lighter tones will go REALLY black on your negs and underdeveloping will ensure that the film will not record any of the medium to dark tones it sees (the film will go clear). This will stretch your contrast ratio a LOT. Try 1-3 stops overexposure and 25-50% underdeveloping for a starter. Let me know if it helps!! Msg#:28561 *INK* 05/13/90 00:57:31 From: JOHN MUCHOW To: DALE NASSAR (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 28503 (COMPUTER-GENERATED HOLOGRAMS) OK THIS TIME I TRY IT WITH MY EYES OPEN!! :-} You should UNDERexpose to make sure that the darker tones are not recorded on the film (resulting in clear areas on the neg) and OVERdevelop to increase the negatives density where the lighter tones exposed the film. This will increase your contrast. Try 1-3 stops UNDERexposure and 50% or more OVERdevelopment. NOW I remember why my assistant did the darkroom stuff!! Msg#:28567 *INK* 05/13/90 04:48:52 From: DALE NASSAR To: JOHN MUCHOW (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 28560 (COMPUTER-GENERATED HOLOGRAMS) John, I took the photographs in a dark room with only a dim illumanation of the CRT so even for an overexposure I got no noticable darkening in the unexposed areas. I developed the film for the maximum specified time--sometimes a little over. My very first shots were "standard" and produced the soft gray type negatives. These films also produced good holographic images. So, I guess I really didn't see a world of difference--not as much as I expected, anyway--in the holographic image. I did learn a little about taking pictures :) --Dale Msg#:28571 *INK* 05/13/90 12:12:57 From: STEVE BUNCH To: DALE NASSAR (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 28503 (COMPUTER-GENERATED HOLOGRAMS) Dale, Yes, the Connection Machine is the cube with all the LED's. I'll have to check and see what output devices they have available. I know there's a film recorder of some kind, though. A friend of mine has an account on a different one (up at Argonne National Labs), but I don't know how much time he could use. If you'd like to try it, I'll contact the people who control the local machine and see about getting some manuals. It's a pain to program, but this is not a large program so it shouldn't be a large job. If you'd like to contact me directly, give me a call. (217)344-0456 (HOME), (217)384-8515 (work). I'll go see if I can check out a copy of that book from the University library. Thanks. Steve Msg#:28504 *INK* 05/11/90 12:52:32 From: ED NISLEY To: MIKE CHAPMAN Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 28104 (RADIOACTIVE RANDOMS) (Apologizing for the delay...) I'm not sure how comparable my readings would be with yours, because I'm recording seconds between counts rather than the counts per minute. Of course, you could get from one to the other, but... If the data in the files area doesn't help, send me your name & address and I'll ship you a diskette with some compressed data. Msg#:28514 *INK* 05/11/90 14:45:34 From: ED NISLEY To: DAVE EWEN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 28151 (OSCILLOSCOPES) How fast can you read a printer port? Well, it all depends... It takes one instruction to do the read: just an IN AL,DX. Then you've got to stash the data somewhere, which probably goes something like STOSB to put it at ES:DI. Then you do a LOOP to repeat it for some number of counts (up to 64K, if that's enough). At a rough guess, that's under 20 clock cycles. Apply your CPU's clock speed and get elapsed time. I'd measure it to be sure, because prefetching contributes a little confusion to the timing and you can't be sure just by reading the manual and adding the cycle counts. If you know you're on a 286 or 386, you can replace the IN and STOSB instructions with a single INSB and save maybe five cycles. If you're _sure_ your machine can handle the timing, you can use a REP INSB instruction that runs at 4 clocks per byte! The problem is that you don't get consistent timing unless you turn off interrupts around the loop: you _don't_ want to get clobbered with a timer tick in the middle! The sampling rate depends on the processor clock speed, which may or may not be a bad thing. Fast enough? Msg#:28574 *INK* 05/13/90 15:55:07 From: TOM WARFEL To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: LASER DIODES/DETECTORS Steve, I read with interest your article on using laser diodes for security monitoring. I am curious about the possibility of trying to use them for a 2-block line-of-site data link in the city. How feasible would it be to use something like the following: |\inverting buffer +------| >o--- transmitting diode 1 | |/ data in ---+ | |\non-inverting buffer +------| >---- transmitting diode 2 |/ high-speed comparitor /|+ ---------detector 1 data out ----< | \|- ---------detector 2 Digital data to be transmitted would drive two lasers, one being "q", the other being "not q". The receiver would have two photoreceptors (photodiodes?, phototransistors?) that would run through a comparitor to reconstruct the original data. My questions are: 1) using this kind of differential signal, could one expect to be relatively immune to optical noise (i.e. headlights, office lights) 2) what are typical minimum transition times for the transmitting lasers and receiving phototransistors/photodiodes? Could I reasonably expect to send and receive a 250kbit/second data stream with the $35 dollar devices you mentioned in the article, or would that require the >$1000 gallium-arsenide devices one sees in EDN? 3) To what size could one reasonably expect to columnate a beam over a distance of, say, 1/2 a mile, and how expensive would the optics be? 4) What kind of environmental control/enclosure would be required to use the device on a roof? Or would it be better to set it in an office window inside the building and simply transmit/receive through the glass windows? -Tom Msg#:28603 *INK* 05/14/90 10:55:36 From: STEVE CIARCIA To: TOM WARFEL (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 28574 (LASER DIODES/DETECTORS) I personally don't see the benefit of 2 diodes over one in this arrangement but I'm sure someone with more experience might. Modulation is what makes your signal immune to headlights and ambient conditions in a single laser beam. I suppose the differential but unmodulated signal from two laser could serve the same purpose. Laser diodes are very fast. Some of these things run at megabit rates. I should think that 250 Kbits is achievable even on the $35 units. Collimation is a function of the lens quality. At about 200 fett I had a 2" spot. Obviously, at a half mile it would be much larger. Perhaps you should consider using an uncollimated diode with a separate higher quality collimator (see Edmund Scientific catalog). Of course, if you have a sensitive receiver, the spot size at 1/2 mile may not be an issue at all. All I can say is try it in the least expensive configuration and go from there. Don't forget, you can put a lens in front of the receiver end too. The environmentally sound enclosure is the great unknown. It depends on the weather :-) We don't need to cool an enclosure in Connecticut but you would in Texas. We have to heat it but you wouldn't in Florida (then again you'd probably have moss growing in it down there too). Out side enclosures are best. Window glass will reduce your signal to noise ratio. Of course, if you are using 100W lasers............... --Steve Msg#:28624 *INK* 05/14/90 20:05:36 From: TOM WARFEL To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 28603 (LASER DIODES/DETECTORS) Thanks for the info. As far as detectors go, do you have any experience with high-speed photodetectors that don't cost an arm-and-a-leg? -Tom Msg#:28695 *INK* 05/16/90 15:43:45 From: STEVE CIARCIA To: TOM WARFEL (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 28624 (LASER DIODES/DETECTORS) 250 Kbps is NOT high speed. Virtually any photo diode will respond to that frequency and higher. Where you run into a problem is when you have a 250 Kbps data modulating a 5 MHz carrier. Are you modulating the light received by the detector or just switching you source on and off at 250 K times a second? --Steve Msg#:28577 *INK* 05/13/90 20:31:13 From: MARC DAVID BUMBLE To: KEN DAVIDSON, STEVE CIARCIA Subj: APRIL/MAY 199 HI, I am wiring the SCSI Interface project in the april/may issue of CCI and I have a couple of questions about Figure 2 of that issue. There are some wire destinations labeled "Flag1", "Flag2", "RDSTB\", "WRSTB\" and "HAL". I think the first two pin outs are connected to the second two but Im not sure. And I might have missed the HAL description. Could you clarify these pin outs for me. Thanks very much for publishing this article on the SCSI bus. Id love another when Im done with this one. Msg#:28601 *INK* 05/14/90 10:33:19 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: MARC DAVID BUMBLE (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 28577 (APRIL/MAY 199) The simple SCSI interface in issue #14 isn't meant to be a complete stand-alone circuit. It is simply an interface which is incomplete without some sort of computer attached. As such, several lines are left hanging which are implementation specific. The second paragraph in the third column on page 18 describes the function of the RDSTRB\, WRSTRB\, and HAL (high-address latch) lines. The second paragraph on page 20 describes the flag lines. None of the five lines that you list are connected to each other. They all have separate functions. Msg#:29124 *INK* 05/27/90 22:07:41 From: MARC DAVID BUMBLE To: KEN DAVIDSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 28601 (APRIL/MAY 199) Thanks, I missed the descriptions in those two paragraphs. I think I understand the read/write strobes. Would they be used to signal the hardware attached to the bus that data is to be written to that attachement or read from that attached hardware? I still dont understand the HAL (High address-latch). Is the HAL pulled high when data is to be written or read from the peripheral? Also, are the Flag lines set by the peripheral? Figure 2 seems to indicate that the lines are set by the SCSI controler of the computer not the target peripheral. Thanks for bearing with me on these questions. I'm sure Ill get better in time as I work on your projects. Hope you have a great memorial day weekend and thanks for all your help. Marc. Msg#:28599 *INK* 05/14/90 10:25:49 From: THOMAS WORTHEN To: ED NISLEY (Rcvd) Subj: BASIC RADIOACTIVE RANDOMS The April/May issue of Circuit Celler INK has a article which uses a Geiger detector from Aware Electronics. There was no informations as to where or what Aware Electronics is. Could anyone out there supply the informantion ? Need address and phone number to ask for catalog. Thanks Tom Msg#:28615 *INK* 05/14/90 13:01:15 From: ED NISLEY To: THOMAS WORTHEN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 28599 (BASIC RADIOACTIVE RANDOMS) The place to call: Aware Electronics Corporation PO Box 4299 Wilmington DE 19807 (302) 655-3800 Tell 'em you saw it in INK... I've already apologized to them for managing to omit their name & phone number. Sigh. Msg#:28645 *INK* 05/15/90 16:30:19 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: ED NISLEY (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 28615 (BASIC RADIOACTIVE RANDOMS) They are also advertising in issue 15 of INK (just coming off the presses now). Msg#:28690 *INK* 05/16/90 10:58:49 From: THOMAS WORTHEN To: ED NISLEY (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 28615 (BASIC RADIOACTIVE RANDOMS) Thanks Ed, greatly appreciate the info and the quick response Msg#:28740 *INK* 05/17/90 19:59:08 From: ED NISLEY To: KEN DAVIDSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 28645 (BASIC RADIOACTIVE RANDOMS) Yeah, several folks called Rose to get the address; he was impressed by our readership's aggressive pursuit of a product... and figured that he ought to get in touch. Now, look, you guys: if you have ever wanted a Geiger counter, but couldn't justify the expense, this is the one to buy. And you get random numbers for free. What a deal! I don't have any stake in Aware Electronics apart from wanting them to do good, like a small company should. Msg#:28633 *INK* 05/15/90 01:56:29 From: SANJAYA VATUK To: TOM NICKEL (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 25210 (DIGITAL AUDIO) Want to start a band? :-) If you are looking for a source of A/D's, you might try Burr-Brown 1-800-548-6132. They make most of the CD player stuff out there. Ask for IC databook #33. Keep us posted on your progress - my current (long-term) project is a digitally-controlled bass guitar preamp. MIDI of course. See ya! -- Sanj Msg#:29582 *INK* 06/06/90 16:21:58 From: TOM NICKEL To: SANJAYA VATUK (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 28633 (DIGITAL AUDIO) Thanks for the info .. I think I'll pass on another band right now! There aren't enough hours in a day as it is! Msg#:29591 *INK* 06/07/90 00:26:30 From: SANJAYA VATUK To: TOM NICKEL (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 29582 (DIGITAL AUDIO) 48 hours would be nice! -- Sanj Msg#:28694 *INK* 05/16/90 15:23:47 From: MARK DAMISH To: DAVID K. MERRIMAN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 28085 (SCHEMATIC FORMATS) For just sending a "picture" of a schematic across BBS's, might I suggest HPGL (H.P. plotter output). Most all schematic capture programs support this output, and it compresses nicely. There are free and not so free programs to output the HPGL file to most printers out there, so it would be an easy way to get a "copy" of some-one elses schematic. HPGL is also "read" by many CAD packages and a few word processers. Mark +? Msg#:28701 *INK* 05/16/90 19:00:32 From: DALE NASSAR To: MARK DAMISH (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 28694 (SCHEMATIC FORMATS) That sounds good. I'm compatable with that format. --Dale Msg#:28700 *INK* 05/16/90 18:42:25 From: MARK RAUSCHKOLB To: ALL Subj: PL513 QUESTION I just got an X10 PL513 module, and built up the little adapter described in CCI May/June 88, page 8. Everything is hooked up correctly. If I plug my PL513 into the wall with nothing connected to its cable, the red LED goes on. Is this correct? When I connect my adapter, the LED stays on, but when I plug the adapter into the PC parallel port, the LED goes off. This seems funny. I tried the X10drive test program. The program loads fine, but complains about not receiving SYNC pulses. Subsequent commands send to the x10drive do not do anything. Is there something wrong that you can diagnose from this little description? I would tend to say that the PL513 module is screwy, but I learned a long time ago that it's almost allways something I'm doing wrong. Thanks, Dave Msg#:28711 *INK* 05/17/90 03:56:55 From: CHARLES WARD To: MARK RAUSCHKOLB (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 28700 (PL513 QUESTION) Mark, or is it Dave? The led is normal. My PL-513 had a solder short across the Zero-Crossing output. Also check your phone cord, you may have the wires crossed between the computer and PL. Charles R. Ward Msg#:28716 *INK* 05/17/90 09:01:12 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: MARK RAUSCHKOLB (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 28700 (PL513 QUESTION) When the PL513 is plugged into the wall, the LED is normally on. When transmitting, the LED turns off. It sounds like the the module is working just fine and the transmit output from your PC is stuck on. Triple check your wiring and make absolutely sure the RJ-11 cord doesn't swap pins 1 and 4 (a lot of them do since polarity doesn't make much difference with most of today's electronic phones). If the cord is swapped, then the pull-up resistor on what should be the zero crossing line will cause the transmitter to be stuck on. Msg#:28762 *INK* 05/18/90 03:42:40 From: MARK RAUSCHKOLB To: MARK RAUSCHKOLB (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 28700 (PL513 QUESTION) Well, the problem is solved, and it was two-fold. First, the cable (supplied by MicroMint) did swap pins 1 and 4, as well as 2 and 3. Beware of nasty phone cables! Looking at various other phone wire around my desk, several only carried two wires, and most swapped the conductors around. The other problem was my LPT2: port, which was on a multi-io board. It is one of the cheap, oriental variety. It does not seem to work completely correctly. Removing the card, and switching to my LPT1: port solved all the problems! I can now do X10 with my computer! Neat! Next part of the project involves hooking the PL513 to my Harris RTXEB Forth computer evaluation board, which I got in phase one of the Harris design contest now underway. It's a tiny board with a 10 MIPS stack oriented processor, Forth in ROM, 3K of RAM, and a serial port. A neat computer with 3 chips! This board, an AT keyboard, and a 2x40 LCD display will form a neat little X10 controller. One question about the PL513: Can I leave in in the wall all the time? As long as I don't send anything to the printer port, I think that the computer end is safe.... Seeing that LED on all the time makes me a little nervous, but it should be safe, right? Thanks for the great help! Msg#:28900 *INK* 05/21/90 10:15:54 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: MARK RAUSCHKOLB (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 28762 (PL513 QUESTION) What would make you nervous about an LED on all the time? It's not going to burn out or start any fires. The PL513-to-computer interface is completely optoisolated, so you're safer leaving the PL513 connected to your computer at all times than you are leaving the computer's power cord plugged into the wall. Msg#:29051 *INK* 05/25/90 14:50:57 From: ED NISLEY To: KEN DAVIDSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 28900 (PL513 QUESTION) Unless you happen to be Steve Ciarcia. Then lightning comes right out of the wall and eats your PC just for yuks. Pull the plug and watch Ma Nature slag down your PL513... Msg#:28710 *INK* 05/17/90 02:46:34 From: CRAIG ANDERSON To: ALL USERS Subj: BCCH16 BASIC STATUS Anyone know the status of the BCCH16 basic? I`m half way finished with building a board similar to the one featured in CCI. I should be completed around the end of June. Anyone else building one? :) Msg#:28763 *INK* 05/18/90 03:56:33 From: MARK RAUSCHKOLB To: ALL Subj: SILLY LCD MODULE QUESTION Ok, here is another in a series of silly questions. I bought a 2x40 LCD module from Timeline, after reading Ed Ninsley's fantastic LCD article. Anyway, I got them yesterday, along with a large size xerox of the specs. All's fine. However, I was already to hook one up to my parallel port and power supply, when I realized that I didn't know the proper pin assignments. This is an LM018L type module, with 14 connections along the left side of the board. On the backside of the board, there is a "1" next to the top rightmost connection hole. There are two columns of 7 connections each. What I don't know is if pin 2 is under pin 1, or next to pin 1. Are these connections numbered like a chip, or numbered like a header? Enquiring minds really want to know. Thanks again. Msg#:28782 *INK* 05/18/90 18:15:12 From: ED NISLEY To: MARK RAUSCHKOLB (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 28763 (SILLY LCD MODULE QUESTION) Ninsley? Now there's a new one... If you have any luck at all, there will be a string of chip resistors on the board somewhere. Pins 2 and 3 connect to the ends of that string, so an ohmmeter will do the deed. Use the low-power setting if it's got one, or trace 'em by eyeball if the circuitry doesn't dive under the display. Msg#:28793 *INK* 05/19/90 00:31:19 From: SANJAYA VATUK To: MARK RAUSCHKOLB (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 28763 (SILLY LCD MODULE QUESTION) I'm looking at the Hitachi data book now - it shows that, viewed from the FRONT of the module, with the header on the left, that pin 14 is the top outermost pin and pin 1 is the lower innermost pin. In other words, the left column is the even pins 14-2, and the right column is the odd pins 13-1, viewed from the front. Good luck, --Sanj Msg#:28794 *INK* 05/19/90 00:35:30 From: BRUCE C. WEBER To: KEN DAVIDSON (Rcvd) Subj: PC BOARD AVAILL? Ken, looking in issue of CCI April/May 1989, are the RTC31K-1 and the RTC-Proto boards still available and if so how much? The AD was on page 51 of that issue. I sure hope they are, would sure save some development time for me. I will log on again on 5/19 and 5/20 to check for your answer. Thanou, Bruce KF7PJ Msg#:28881 *INK* 05/21/90 09:37:44 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: BRUCE C. WEBER (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 28794 (PC BOARD AVAILL?) Both kits (*not* blank boards alone) are available from CCI for the prices stated. Micromint sells the RTC31 assembled and tested starting at $119. Msg#:28893 *INK* 05/21/90 09:56:45 From: ED NISLEY To: BRUCE C. WEBER (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 28794 (PC BOARD AVAILL?) Umm, remember that the 19th and 20th are, respectively, Saturday and Sunday. It's traditional for businesses to grant employees the weekend off, so expecting a reply by Sunday to a message you post on Saturday is probably unreasonable... Msg#:28932 *INK* 05/21/90 22:27:53 From: BRUCE C. WEBER To: KEN DAVIDSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 28881 (PC BOARD AVAILL?) Thanks for checking Ken, I ordered those boards this morning, I also finially got my DDT51 and the circuit in Ink Furnace working, now what to program?! Again thanks, Bruce Msg#:28933 *INK* 05/21/90 22:32:00 From: BRUCE C. WEBER To: ED NISLEY (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 28893 (PC BOARD AVAILL?) Ed, thanks for the response, but I get excited at times and want to know right away. I thought you guys might check in on weekends to see whats going on. Oh well, I guess all jobs become ho-hum after years go by at the same task. Bruce. Msg#:28953 *INK* 05/22/90 08:43:20 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: BRUCE C. WEBER (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 28933 (PC BOARD AVAILL?) Just because we like to take a day or two off without checking into the BBS, that makes our jobs ho-hum? Interesting perspective... Msg#:29074 *INK* 05/25/90 22:53:48 From: BRUCE C. WEBER To: ED NISLEY (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 29050 (PC BOARD AVAILL?) Wasn't ruffled, but fair enough. Msg#:28946 *INK* 05/22/90 02:21:13 From: JOHN MUCHOW To: ALL Subj: IMAGEWISE/PC APPL. HELP I have an application for the Imagewise/PC board but I need some help. I want to be able to find out the address of the first pixel which exceeds a preset brightness level. The IWPC board seems perfect for this if I can find a way to latch the address when the overlay comparator goes high. It seems that I could use the output of the LM311 (U43) directly but I'm not sure what the 1Y and 2Y outputs of the 74LS153 (U44) are doing and if I should be using one of those. The output I picked would enable a pair of '244s to latch the address. The '244s would be connected to 16 of the 64 DIO lines I have available in my system and read by my software. My second question is; where do I get the address? I'm confused as to whether I should be using PCAREG0-15 or VA0-15 or something else. I realize that I could do all of this in software but I need all the speed I can get on this one, and besides, writing software makes my neurons smoke! Thanks for any help you can give me on this one!!! Msg#:29053 *INK* 05/25/90 14:51:57 From: ED NISLEY To: JOHN MUCHOW (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 28946 (IMAGEWISE/PC APPL. HELP) You've got the right idea. The address you want is VA0-15, which stands for "Video Address" and counts up for each pel. Because the pels clip along at a pretty good rate, maybe you should use a pair of 374 latches to capture the address and read the output of those chips. You'll need to add a little logic to prevent the comparator from latching _every_ hit in the 374s, but that's mostly a flipflop set by your system and cleared by the comparator. Sounds like a neat application... whatcha doing? Msg#:29096 *INK* 05/26/90 19:08:55 From: JOHN MUCHOW To: ED NISLEY (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 29053 (IMAGEWISE/PC APPL. HELP) Thanks for the reply! It's always nice to hear from the SOURCE ;-}. I'm in the process of building a tracking system for myself. I have a CCD camera mounted on the ceiling with a ring a VERY high power IR leds in a heat sink around the lens, pointed down. The camera has an RG-9 IR filter in front of it so it blocks out all fluorescent light and a lot of the ambient light in my studio. The target is a 1/2" x 1/2" piece of 3M's retroreflective tape attached to whatever I want to track. Since the tape reflects almost all of the light hitting it back to the source, I get a VERY bright target image from the camera. This lets me close the lens almost all the way down, giving me a very high contrast image of just the 1/2" target and almost nothing else. I had a custom video digitizer built by a friend (I know almost NOTHING about video!) to grab the address of the pixels which exceeded a certain brightness level but the sys was extremely unstable and required constant calibration to use. It drove me crazy! The digitizer was hooked up to a 20Mhz AT clone which drove 4 stepper motor controllers. My software took the incoming addresses and calculated the direction and spped of the target. It then instructed the motor controllers to rotate and follow the target. Attached to the motors are 4 studio flash units which I mounted on a timing belt driven "lazy susan" type of arrangement. This sys lets me photograph someone who is moving around instead requiring the model to stay within a very small area, "in the light". The sys works great except for the digitizer, hence my interest in the IW/PC!! Msg#:29097 *INK* 05/26/90 19:17:43 From: JOHN MUCHOW To: ED NISLEY (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 29053 (IMAGEWISE/PC APPL. HELP) OK, VA0-15 and the LM311 output it is!! I'm kind of confused by the FF though. I realize that the comparator is going to stream a bunch of addresses at me whenever it sees my target (see message #29096 (I think)). The FF will let me latch the address of the first pixel which exceeds a certain brightness, and ignore the others until I set/clr the FF from my system. I'm not very familiar with FFs and am confused as to whether I should use a J-K or a D (D seems right). Looking at the data sheets for a few TTL FFs I couldn't work out a way to latch only the first address and still let me clear the FF when I wanted to capture another. Could you point in the direction of a particular chip that might do the job? This project is alomst starting to sound like an INK article! Thanks for your help!!! Msg#:29184 *INK* 05/29/90 12:30:27 From: ED NISLEY To: JOHN MUCHOW (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 29096 (IMAGEWISE/PC APPL. HELP) Sound like you've got an ideal application! The key to tracking something is getting the SNR high enough to simplify the rest of the logic. I like your approach a lot... it's simple and clever, which is an unbeatable combination. Some folks try to pick a target out of the usual clutter with simple amplitude detection; it just doesn't work! Because you're not using the ImageWise/PC's digitized video output, put it into "continuous acquisition" mode so the monitor displays real-time digital video; that'll let you tune for best picture on the fly. You may need to gate your trigger signal with the ImageWise/PC's composite blanking to ensure you don't catch any junk at the top or edges of the picture... but if you've got a clean signal, that might not be a problem. Msg#:29185 *INK* 05/29/90 12:31:06 From: ED NISLEY To: JOHN MUCHOW (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 29097 (IMAGEWISE/PC APPL. HELP) Here's how I'd wire that flipflop up... what you really want is an SR (Set/Reset or Preset/Clear) flipflop, but it turns out that those are really "D" flipflops with asynchronous Set/Reset terminal... you just ground the clock input! Connect "Reset" to the PC controlling this shindig and "Set" to the trigger signal from the ImageWise/PC interface (which may come through some gates combining the comparator's output with any conditioning signal, as we've discussed). The PC blips Set to turn the flipflop OFF. When the trigger occurs, the flipflop goes ON and the PC gets interrupted. You get to assign logic levels to make all the answers come out right, of course, so "Set" and "Reset" are probably active low and ON can go either way. You'll also have to give the PC some way to determine when a new video frame is starting so it can do a Set at the top of each from. The ImageWise/PC produces a Frame signal that will suffice; you'll probably want to condition that with some other logic, as well. Msg#:29225 *INK* 05/29/90 23:32:21 From: JOHN MUCHOW To: ED NISLEY (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 29185 (IMAGEWISE/PC APPL. HELP) Thanks for the hint!! I'll dig into the schematics tommorrow morning to piece this all together. You can't believe how stoked I am to finally have a solution to the one problem that I coudn't solve (a clean pixel address) myself!! It's been over three years of part time experimenting to come up with this system (I tried ultrasonics and RF before coming up with the IR and 3M retro. tape idea)!! Thanks again for yor hlp, I was very hesitant about buying the IWPC board until I knew there was a way to do what I wanted (mucho dollars for this one). THIS BBS IS INCREDIBLE!! it's alright....i'm ok now....got carried away Msg#:29267 *INK* 05/30/90 15:34:47 From: JOHN MUCHOW To: ED NISLEY (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 29185 (IMAGEWISE/PC APPL. HELP) OK, I think I have it now...maybe. I'm going to gate (NAND) the comparator's output with ENBVACTR or BLANKOVR\ (these lines look like they go LOW during blanking). The NAND's output will go to CLR\ of a '74 FF, with CLK at GND. The FIELD1 signal from the 8031 will go to the PRE\ input of the FF. This will be used to bring the Q\ output LOW at the beginning of each frame (is FIELD1 the correct signal for this?). Q\ goes to the CLK inputs of my '374s. When the comparator goes HIGH (and is gated by a HIGH ENBVACTR or BLANKOVR\), CLR\ is brought LOW and my '374s latch the address. I don't need, I think, any control from my PC, just the address when I need it. I don't know anything about interrupt handling and all of my code is in Quickbasic. When I complete my motor movement commands, I check the new pixel address (any preceeding addresses aren't needed since I can't act on them until I finish pulsing the motors) and compute the next series of motor movements. The only thing I'm not sure about is if FIELD1 goes LOW bet. frames or for all of the second field. My next upgrade is to offload the motor movement pulses to local processors at each light to give me more CPU time to compute the next series of movements needed. THEN things will get ugly with interrupts, etc. sighhh....I hate software. Msg#:29316 *INK* 05/31/90 15:18:08 From: ED NISLEY To: JOHN MUCHOW (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 29267 (IMAGEWISE/PC APPL. HELP) The FRAME is low for one whole field and high for the next; if I recall correctly, the ImageWise/PC firmware is digitizing like mad during the high half of the cycle. If you're using that on an asynchronous input to the flipflop, make sure that it can't be active when the comparator hit occurs, because the flipflop's state isn't defined when both the Set and Reset inputs are active simultaneously... Unless you read the address as a single 16-bit quantity, you _must_ ensure that it can't change between readings. A simple way to do that is to read it twice; if it changes, read it again right away and you'll get the right answer. Have at it! Msg#:29346 *INK* 05/31/90 23:34:37 From: JOHN MUCHOW To: ED NISLEY (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 29316 (IMAGEWISE/PC APPL. HELP) OK, I'm ordering the board tommorrow!! The address will be read all at once (16 bits), so I'm not too worried. I have code already written to check for valid addresses (and valid change of addresses,i.e., I know my target can't move faster than a certain rate between readings and I check for that) so I'll use that to start. If I'm able to remove it, great! My code will run faster. Thanks again for all your help. I've learned a lot and look forward to the modifying of this board! I'll let you know how it goes. Msg#:29362 *INK* 06/01/90 01:36:57 From: JOHN MUCHOW To: ED NISLEY (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 29316 (IMAGEWISE/PC APPL. HELP) Is FRAME the same signal as FIELD1, I can't find it on the schematics? Do I have to worry about SET and RESET being active simultaneously if FRAME is HIGH when digitizing and that's the only time I'll get a comparator hit? Or does the comparator go high sometime when the IW/PC is not digitizing (I'm NANDing the comparator with the blanking signal so it is active low going into the flip-flop)? Msg#:29389 *INK* 06/01/90 12:16:09 From: ED NISLEY To: JOHN MUCHOW (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 29362 (IMAGEWISE/PC APPL. HELP) No matter what I say, the right way to do it is to measure the signals and make sure that you've got the logic correct for the flipflop you're using. Most of the flipflops define the output state as "undefined" if both Set & Reset are active simultaneously, so the final state depends on which one is active last; if that's OK with your design, then it'll work. If not, you need to do more work. I don't recall the name of the signal, but something like FRAME1 or FIELD or some such is pretty close... and you'll need to scope it out anyway! Msg#:29424 *INK* 06/02/90 14:08:40 From: JOHN MUCHOW To: ED NISLEY (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 29389 (IMAGEWISE/PC APPL. HELP) Being so unfamiliar with video has made me a little anxious about this one. Thanks for your patience. Now...if I can only find a Imagewise/PC board to buy! Msg#:29912 *INK* 06/15/90 23:10:54 From: JOEL KERR To: ED NISLEY (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 29053 (IMAGEWISE/PC APPL. HELP) ed, back in april i went to a demo by Pioneer/motorola where one of their boston app engineers showed how to use their DSP chip(dsp65000) as a 100Ns image processor for a robotic arm system. I HAD A COPY OF THIS ARTICLE BUT IT HAS VANISHED( WILL LOOK FOR IT)!!!!! Frank Marchica is a sales engineer for Motorola,284-0810 he may be able to get u a copy of this article . I had a neat real time app for freq synthisis (?) this chi[ would have been perfect for but funding got riffed. Joel C. Kerr Msg#:31075 *INK* 07/25/90 00:30:22 From: JOHN MUCHOW To: ED NISLEY (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 29389 (IMAGEWISE/PC APPL. HELP) I finally received my IMWPC board last Friday and spent the weekend scoping out everything on the board. I needed only to invert one signal from the circuit recommendations you gave me. Thanks again. I am bringing 19 lines off the board (approx. 6-8 inches) to a board of mine and I was wondering if you thought I would need to do more than just interleave them with signal grounds. 16 of the line are the video addresses and are high enough frequency for me to want to do all I can to keep those signals intact! Oops! Sorry, it's been a while. This is the modification to latch the address of the first pixel that exceeds the overlay setting for the tracking application I've been working on. Msg#:31149 *INK* 07/26/90 14:15:39 From: ED NISLEY To: JOHN MUCHOW (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 31075 (IMAGEWISE/PC APPL. HELP) Believe it or not, I _did_ remember what you were doing! I'd try using ordinary ribbon cable without fancy interleaved grounds, but after it was all set up and before I tried to do anything useful, I'd put a scope on the address lines and make sure they're doing the right things. You'll also need some control signals, and I'd put those in a separate cable with some ground lines to keep 'em apart. If you've got nice, clean logic levels and no fuzz on the signals, leave it be. But if things look messy, drop back and do it right. The trouble with noise is that things will work just fine for days on end, then blow up in your face right before the Big Demo. Guaranteed! Msg#:31160 *INK* 07/26/90 23:12:17 From: JOHN MUCHOW To: ED NISLEY (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 31149 (IMAGEWISE/PC APPL. HELP) I was thinking that putting my 3 control signals in a separate cable might be a good idea....will do. Thanks! Funny thing about noise....I tried the IMWPC board on my home system to play with it for a while and it started causing random memory parity errors! The only slotxDs it would not zap my system from were the 2 that let the board sit over the memory banks!!! Sighhhhhh..... Msg#:31181 *INK* 07/27/90 17:54:36 From: ED NISLEY To: JOHN MUCHOW (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 31160 (IMAGEWISE/PC APPL. HELP) Now that's a new one. Are those two slots on the end, by any chance? If so, it might be a power distribution problem; you might take a look at the supply voltages on the board. Scope out the bus lines while you're at it to see if there's anything odd going on down there, too. Msg#:31196 *INK* 07/28/90 00:52:21 From: JOHN MUCHOW To: ED NISLEY (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 31181 (IMAGEWISE/PC APPL. HELP) The two slots on the end (farthest from the power supply) are the ones that it works PROPERLY from. If there was a power distribution problem, wouldn't these be the ones that were acting up? I was going to scope out my system when I had the board at home but the steam coming out of my ears kept me from seeing anything! My system at work, where the IMWPC currently resides, will be going in to my dealer for a little yearly TLC (AND a bigger hard drive!), I'll bring the board home then and snoop around (my scope is at work too). Msg#:31294 *INK* 07/30/90 19:02:13 From: ED NISLEY To: JOHN MUCHOW (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 31196 (IMAGEWISE/PC APPL. HELP) Beats me... I think you'll have to do some detective work on this one with the scope. Check out the power and bus signals anyway, just because you never can tell about these things from simple logical deductins, then look at some of the on-board signals. Start with the board in a slot where it works, of course, then move it elsewhere when you're familar with "the way things should be" and can make some useful comparisons. You might want to code up some simple test loops (using DEBUG for Q&D work) to give you some scope test signals. You don't have to tell the board to do anything useful, just a simple command-delay-repeat loop will do fine. Tell us what you find! Msg#:31311 *INK* 07/31/90 00:30:59 From: JOHN MUCHOW To: ED NISLEY (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 31294 (IMAGEWISE/PC APPL. HELP) That's a good idea, running some test loops to provide some known scope signals. After the fact, it seems to be such a common sense idea. I probably wouldn't have thought of it until I wasted a whole weekend trying to follow some other ridiculously complex signals :-} !! It's amazing what watching too much Bugs Bunny as a child does to one's brain! I'll let you know what happens! Msg#:28980 *INK* 05/23/90 19:58:43 From: EVAN HOLLANDER To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: 8052AH-BASIC Steve, In reading the current INK I noticed a reference to the fact that Intel is no longer supporting the 8052 Basic interpeter and the source code is available on a BBS. Any clues as to the phone number??? I would be most interested in perusing a copy. Thanks, Evan Msg#:28987 *INK* 05/24/90 00:09:40 From: SANJAYA VATUK To: EVAN HOLLANDER (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 28980 (8052AH-BASIC) Intel's BBS# is 602-554-8167, and the source code is available in two parts, the BASIC and the floating-point stuff. Have fun, -- Sanj Msg#:29063 *INK* 05/25/90 15:17:52 From: STEVE CIARCIA To: EVAN HOLLANDER (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 28980 (8052AH-BASIC) I think you are supposed to join some Intel group for $100 when you take the code, however. --STeve Msg#:28981 *INK* 05/23/90 20:09:11 From: LANCE JONES To: ALL Subj: Z84C13 Hi, I read about the Zilog Z84C13 microprocessor in a recent issue of INK. However I have been unable to locate a supplier for this chip. Calls to Zilog havn't been all that helpfull since the suppliers they name do not seem to have the chip listed. If anyone can tell me where I can find this chip, it would be greatly appreciated. I started designing a Senior Design project around this chip and seem to be stuck at this point. Thanks, Lance Msg#:29008 *INK* 05/24/90 13:44:15 From: ANDY RAUER To: ALL Subj: CHIP ??? DOES ANYONE KNOW THE MANUFACTURER/DISTRIBUTOR OF A RING DETECTOR CHIP WITH THE MARKINGS 'TCM 1506' ANY HELP WOULD BE GREATLY APPRECIATED. ANDY RAUER (CET) ONTARIO SCIENCE CENTRE Msg#:29009 *INK* 05/24/90 15:52:23 From: BOB PADDOCK To: ANDY RAUER (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 29008 (CHIP ???) It's made by Texas Insturments. Msg#:29030 *INK* 05/25/90 09:10:41 From: BURT BROWN To: BOB PADDOCK (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 29009 (CHIP ???) The TCM 1506A is actually a complete ringer replacement circuit and is designed to directly drive a piezoelectric transducer. Check out page 2-11 of the '86 Telecommunications Circuits Data Book. Msg#:29133 *INK* 05/28/90 13:32:23 From: ANDY RAUER To: BOB PADDOCK (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 29009 (CHIP ???) THANKS FOR YOUR HELP. ANDY RAUER Msg#:29134 *INK* 05/28/90 13:33:37 From: ANDY RAUER To: BURT BROWN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 29030 (CHIP ???) THANKS FOR THE INFO. GREATLY APPRECIATED. ANDY RAUER Msg#:29087 *INK* 05/26/90 12:30:30 From: MARK BALCH To: CURT FRANKLIN (Rcvd) Subj: FUTURE THEMES, ARTICLES... Hi Curt, I just got my issue of INK yesterday and was glad to see you asking the readers for ideas for future themes and projects. I have a theme that I am planning to start work on after my current project blows over: equipment! Everyone needs good, reliable development and debugging equipment, but most of it comes at a hefty price tag. If people could build their own, things would be great. The 10MHz Oscilliscope article was along those lines and so was Steve's EPROM programmer. Next, I think that people would like to see things like logic analyzers and (I know you've been talking about the complexities of this but...) simple PLD programmers. I have been thinking about an LA for some time now and have designed parts of it. This sounds like a good project. If anyone AT INK wants to take it up, great, otherwise, maybe I can in a few months. (Where do I d/l the author's kit?) I've been talking to another INK subscriber about the design of an LA and it seems to be pretty feasible to design a good one (40 - 50MHz) with a few levels of triggering. I've also thought about a simple PLD programmer. Am I wrong in assuming that its easy if you neglect the software? All you need is some power channels that are connected to a few pins and that can choose between the common programming voltages for PLDs. Then, some I/O ports and you're set. (or are you?) I any case, I think that equipment would be a great theme spanning one or even three issues. The circuits presented would not only be informative but would have great uses for many readers. How's it sound? Bye...Mark Msg#:29100 *INK* 05/26/90 23:24:16 From: DALE NASSAR To: MARK BALCH (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 29087 (FUTURE THEMES, ARTICLES...) With me, it has always been the case "It is simple if you neglect "great" software (make that decent sowtware)". I designed a simple logic analyzer that used assembler for data aq.--only took a few hundred bytes--no problem here; then I hired a programmer to do the user interface (in C). Now I had an excellant sellable product--total file size:250KB! When using a DMA aq. routine the file size is only a few bytes, but it looks like you have to have that complex user interface to have a product. I can just imagine how easy life could be if it wern't for sowtware. --Dale Msg#:29279 *INK* 05/30/90 22:11:20 From: MARK BALCH To: DALE NASSAR (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 29100 (FUTURE THEMES, ARTICLES...) Yes, this is true and I have thought alot about the software for a Logic Analyzer. I would do the job myself in Turbo Pascal and there are many toolboxes to help me with tasks like user interface stuff. The one that I have in mind would work off a serial port, so DMA is out but this creates a bit of a bottleneck at times. At 19.2K baud figure between 8 and 16 seconds for a full transfer of data. But once its in, the driver "only" has to display the data in either a state table or a state diagram. It wouldn't be simple, but I think I could pull off a no-frills driver if I really wanted to. (But that hired programmer idea is tempting!) BTW, is your LA design good for most people? If so, you can consider making it an INK project. It would be nice to do next year, but it all depends on factors like time and inertia. Bye...Mark Msg#:29913 *INK* 06/15/90 23:13:14 From: JOEL KERR To: MARK BALCH (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 29087 (FUTURE THEMES, ARTICLES...) how about a DIY spectrum analyzer? There are several out there for uew with an oscillioscope but how about one that utilizes a surplus monitor? Msg#:30047 *INK* 06/20/90 12:16:56 From: MARK BALCH To: JOEL KERR (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 29913 (FUTURE THEMES, ARTICLES...) Okay, problem there is that I don't know what a DIY spec analzer is! As far as test equipment, the only thing that I can see myself building is a LA. Hopefully things will come together in the next few months... Bye...Mark Msg#:30050 *INK* 06/20/90 14:16:07 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: MARK BALCH (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 30047 (FUTURE THEMES, ARTICLES...) DIY: Do It Yourself IMHO: In My Humble Opinion TPTB: The Powers That Be BYOB: Bring Your Own Booze :-) Msg#:30059 *INK* 06/21/90 00:40:47 From: JOEL KERR To: MARK BALCH (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 30047 (FUTURE THEMES, ARTICLES...) do it yourself spectrum analyzer. as rf/em pollution is becoming a larger problem knowing where in the spectrum a problem exists or may exist is essential. RF Design Jan '88 had a 'scope based unit. i havent had the time to construct one yet. I yse the HP 8590A (my toy) at work. A unit that is processor driven and runs a composite/ttl monitor would be of hopefully great interest. if u want a copy of the RF article leave a mail drop Msg#:30269 *INK* 06/27/90 15:11:03 From: MARK BALCH To: KEN DAVIDSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 30050 (FUTURE THEMES, ARTICLES...) In that case, I'll leave the spec analyzer to TPTB! :-) Msg#:30272 *INK* 06/27/90 15:18:45 From: MARK BALCH To: JOEL KERR (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 30059 (FUTURE THEMES, ARTICLES...) The spec article sounds interesing, thanks for the copy offer. Maybe after I see exactly what goes into one I'll have some idea of how to build one. But first on my list of priorities is a Logic analyzer, a PLD programmer (if I can get good, free equation compilers for at least one family) and possibly a small X10 home control stint. I've just gotten interested in the X10 thing and I may work on it after the summer is over. Here's my address: 1811 Avenue K Brooklyn, NY 11230 Thanks...Bye...Mark Msg#:30437 *INK* 07/03/90 00:12:05 From: JOEL KERR To: MARK BALCH (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 30272 (FUTURE THEMES, ARTICLES...) i'll bet the logic analyzer and the spectrum analyzer could use the same "core". that is with minimal changes they could built from the same starting point. Check your land mail-- enevelope in transit. Joel Kerr Msg#:30566 *INK* 07/07/90 14:17:23 From: MARK BALCH To: JOEL KERR (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 30437 (FUTURE THEMES, ARTICLES...) Thanks for the info Joel. I haven't yet had a chance to really look at it, but the schematics seem a bit scary to me. Remember, I'm self-taught in digital, not analog so much although I am learning more slowly. In the way of making a digital version, I assume that you'd need some very expensive flash ADC's to convert the vert/horz outputs into good resolution (8 bits) and do it at 100MHz. That sounds real expensive to me. With a good analog front end as in the article you sent, it could be done but at what cost? Bye...Mark Msg#:29099 *INK* 05/26/90 23:20:34 From: LEE AHO To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: DATA LOGGER Steve, I really liked your article on the data logger. I have several uses for one, so I'm going to build my own. In the article, you mentioned monitoring the pH level of the water in a brook. Is there a type of sensor that I can get to make this measurement? Or, can I make one? How about sensors to measure humidity? Msg#:29205 *INK* 05/29/90 14:15:10 From: STEVE CIARCIA To: LEE AHO (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 29099 (DATA LOGGER) All the ph sensors I've seen are pretty expensive but the humidity one is fairly cheap. Ken Davidson might still have the part number for the one we sampled. Also, many moons ago we had quite a bit of conversation here on sensors. Perhaps you should peruse the archives. --Steve Msg#:29354 *INK* 06/01/90 00:07:12 From: FRANK KUECHMANN To: LEE AHO (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 29099 (DATA LOGGER) One good pH sensor is a pH electrode; they're generally expensive, delicate and available through scientific supply houses. Use with a J-FET input op amp, read the amp's output with an A-D/C or voltmeter. A source for the electrode and example circuits, etc is: Vernier Software [2920 SW 89th Av, Portland OR 97225; 503/297-5317]. Cost is rather high from Vernier -- ~$30 -- and you can probably cut it in half if you track the thing down elsewhere. The group purchase of the Philips humidity-sensitive capacitor Ken mentioned was from Newark Electronics at a cost of about $7 per capacitor. The reason a group purchase was made is Newark's $50 minimum order. The Philips data sheets available from Philips [& perhaps Newark] show a lot of stand-alone measurement circuits; several can be easilly adapted for use with computers using either an A-D/C or a frequency [pulse] counter. I probably have an extra set of the data sheets around here & can send them if I have an address. Msg#:29604 *INK* 06/07/90 20:43:20 From: LEE AHO To: FRANK KUECHMANN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 29354 (DATA LOGGER) Frank, I would like a copy of the information on the Phillips sensor if you have extras. You can send them to the following address: Lee Aho 4912 Lakeridge #2B Ypsilanti, Michigan 48197 I am building the data logger, but I'm using the MC68HC11 micro from Motorola. I know that might be a sin amongst most of the other BBS users, considering the strong Intel 8051 family following, but for applications like this I prefer it. I was hoping I could get some info on that sensor before I ordered some. Thank you. Msg#:29623 *INK* 06/08/90 05:20:03 From: FRANK KUECHMANN To: LEE AHO (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 29604 (DATA LOGGER) I checked my files & I do have extra data. I'll get it sent in the next few days. I like the 68HC11 and Moto's other processors like the 6809 and 68000-series, but for a lot of the data-logging applications I'm involved with something like the 8052-BASIC interpreter is better suited than anything I know of with a Moto processor. I've heard there are a decent FORTH interpreter or two for the 68HC11, but haven't had a chance to try 'em. Msg#:29128 *INK* 05/28/90 04:23:03 From: GARY PARKER To: ALL Subj: SAD0810 I have some A TO D converter boards using ADC0808 converters and would like to switch over to the SDA0810 converters described in the June/July issue of CCI b ut have been unable to find a source for the SDA0810. Does anyone know where I can purchase them? Thanks for your help !!! Msg#:29174 *INK* 05/29/90 10:27:35 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: GARY PARKER (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 29128 (SAD0810) Siemens makes the part. It's highly unlikely that you'll find it at any of the mail order parts houses anytime soon. Try contacting Siemens. Siemens Components, Inc. 2191 Laurelwood Rd. Santa Clara, CA 95054 (408) 980-4500 Msg#:29197 *INK* 05/29/90 12:38:25 From: ED NISLEY To: ALL Subj: DDT-51 ERRATA OK, party people, it's egg on the face time... The DDT-51 silkscreen has this little oops: C19 is screened backwards. That's the electrolytic cap on the top of the board; the (+) terminal should point toward POT1 instead of R4. The voltage rating is high enough that it won't blow up, but it probably doesn't filter worth a darn. Flip it around and accept our heartfelt apologies. Msg#:29214 *INK* 05/29/90 17:55:45 From: LEE AHO To: KEN DAVIDSON (Rcvd) Subj: HUMIDITY SENSOR Ken, I asked Steve about pH and humidity sensors for use with the data logger he described in the current issue of CCI. He said you might still have the part number of the humidity sensor that you experimented with. Can you tell me where I could possibly get one? Steve also said that all the pH sensors that he knew of were pretty expensive. Is it possible to construct one? Msg#:29241 *INK* 05/30/90 08:44:13 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: LEE AHO (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 29214 (HUMIDITY SENSOR) Actually, the humidity sensor we have (which, by the way, I haven't tried yet) was obtained through a group purchase that another BBS user set up last September. Do a earch on the ubject fields for the string "SENSOR" and you might be able to find the original thread. It is a Philips 2322-691-90001 relative humidity sensor that was featured in the February 1986 issue of Radio-Electronics. It is actually a variable capacitor which has a value determined by the relative humidity. You need a circuit which converts the capacitance to something a computer can use. I don't have any information at all on pH sensors. Msg#:30357 *INK* 06/30/90 07:32:26 From: PELLERVO KASKINEN To: LEE AHO Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 29214 (HUMIDITY SENSOR) Well, you might be able to make a pH sensor yourself, provided you know how to make porous glass. What you need for the electrodes are Calomel and the porous glass (or ceramic) electrode that conytains a saturated solution of KCl. The porocity must be such that ions flow through but you do not let the solution as such disappear too soon. Typically, in dirty environment a higher loss of the electrolyte is required and tolerated. The slow migration of ions through this porous plug is also the reason for a very high resistance that the electrodes exhibit, requiring even higher resistance for the measuring amplifier - in the thousands of megohms! And of course, you have to correct the measurement for the temperature effects, i.e. you should include a temperature sensor in the electrode construction. Did I whet your appetite? -- PJK Msg#:29224 *INK* 05/29/90 23:29:21 From: WINEFRED WASHINGTON To: HARRY KOLBE (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 27269 (MIDISEQ PROJECT) Harry Kolbe I'll be glad to talk to you about it. Winefred Washington Msg#:29278 *INK* 05/30/90 22:01:24 From: JIM MORSE To: ALL Subj: IR REPEATER I built the IR repeater that was in one of the card deck that Circuit Cellar sends out. It works, but there's a couple things that seem odd. (1) It isn't very sensitive. I have to be less than three feet from it. Using different IR senders doesn't change this. (2) It seems to use up batteries quickly. Wouldn't it just sit there and not use much current when I'm not sending to it? I'm not an electronics expert. I read enough elementary stuff to learn how to series or parallel capacitors and resistors to get the values the circuit required. I used a Radio Shack cross reference to determine the transistors I could use. I put the whole thing in a metal box and tied negative of the battery to the case per what I guess the directions wanted me to to (it said enclose the amplifying section, but I thought that enclosing the whole thing would be OK). I put developed color film in front of the detector. Having it there or not doesn't affect the sensitivity. It was pretty neat for me to build this and actually have it work (I tried it on a breadboard first, actually), and I'm going to do some more little projects, but I'd really appreciate some tips from anyone as to what they think is causing the two things I described above. Thanks! Msg#:29288 *INK* 05/31/90 00:47:05 From: SANJAYA VATUK To: JIM MORSE (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 29278 (IR REPEATER) I tried building one too, but had a terrible time trying to get it to work reliably. I couldn't find the diode used in the schematic, so I used the one in Radio Shack's little receiver module. It worked OK when I breadboarded it, but when I got out the solder it seemed to be always on. Tried reversing the output polarity - no luck. I would be VERY interested in a LOW-power repeater for my stereo, which is in a room other than the bench where I spend most of my free time. Anybody? Thanks, -- Sanj Msg#:29332 *INK* 05/31/90 19:58:23 From: JIM MORSE To: SANJAYA VATUK (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 29288 (IR REPEATER) OK, thanks. I used the reciever/transmitter pair which R.S. sells. Is it possible that the unit got too hot when you soldered it? I think they are pretty specific about the polarity, but until I got all my connections tight I was trying that, too. It should work for you, I could share the part numbers I used if you want. What do you mean by low power - low battery consumption, or low output, or what? Later... Msg#:29358 *INK* 06/01/90 00:34:54 From: SANJAYA VATUK To: JIM MORSE (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 29332 (IR REPEATER) Low battery consumption would be very desirable. I envisioned sticking tha thing in the corner of the room and forgetting about it (except when I point my remote at it). I would appreciate the parts list you used - maybe I'll give it another go. Thanks, -- Sanj Msg#:29696 *INK* 06/11/90 16:25:16 From: JIM MORSE To: SANJAYA VATUK (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 29358 (IR REPEATER) OK, let me dig it up, will get it to you, pls be patient; thanks :-) Msg#:29728 *INK* 06/12/90 11:06:01 From: SANJAYA VATUK To: JIM MORSE (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 29696 (IR REPEATER) Thanks, -- Sanj Msg#:29818 *INK* 06/14/90 21:22:19 From: JIM MORSE To: SANJAYA VATUK (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 29728 (IR REPEATER) OK, here is the info. For the transistors I used Radio Shack part number 276-2023 for the one PNP, and 276-2016 for the three NPN's. For the emitter and detector I used part number 276-142 which is both the emitter and detector for $1.99 list. The transistors are $.59 each. I put it all in a little metal box from RS, and used standoffs and a little PC board that they sell (basicall, all the stuff was from them). I used a battery holder for the 9V cell. I couldn't locate the all the right size resistors and capacitors so I "seriesed" or "parallelled" as appropriate, like for the 510 I used a 220, 270, 10, and 10. I suppose you could use a combination that adds to 513 because the 2.7K is in series with the 510 anyways. In fact, I had a little trouble understanding what 2.7K is going to do to 510K with plus or minus 5% tolerance, but I followed the drawing as closely as I could. As I said in an earlier msg, I had problem with the distance sensitivity (2-3 ft. max). I also was going through batteries like crazy, so I put in a little switch. Since I did that I haven't had to replace (recharge) the battery. I'm going to ask Steve C. about those two things. It wasn't free, and I had to spend a couple evenings on it, but I got a lot of satisfaction in getting it to work, and the alternative to accomplish what I wanted would have cost $275. Sorry for the misspelling(s), but the part numbers I gave you are correct. Good luck, and let me know if I can be of any further help. Msg#:30539 *INK* 07/06/90 09:28:49 From: SANJAYA VATUK To: JIM MORSE (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 29818 (IR REPEATER) Thanks for the info. Sorry about the delay, but I was out of town and was only able to quickly download messages. Haven't had a chance to try it your way yet, but I'll let you know how it turns out when I do. Thanx, -- Sanj Msg#:30557 *INK* 07/07/90 09:42:19 From: JIM MORSE To: SANJAYA VATUK (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 30539 (IR REPEATER) No problem with time delays, it happens to me all the time. Good luck. Msg#:29415 *INK* 06/02/90 10:37:36 From: VIC RICHTER To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: DATA LOGGER Steve, Will there be any "sample" code in BASIC listed for the data logger project in issue 15?? That was a terrific issue! Vic Msg#:29788 *INK* 06/14/90 11:38:17 From: STEVE CIARCIA To: VIC RICHTER (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 29415 (DATA LOGGER) What software? It can be as simple a few lines to a couple hundred depending upon the application. Since the only "data logger" specific code in the whole article is the port1 command to go back to sleep the rest is standard stuff for reading and storing data. Again, that depends on your application. Sorry, this time you get to write your own code! --Steve Msg#:29518 *INK* 06/04/90 16:21:09 From: DALE NASSAR To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: DRIVING CMOS OUTPUTS Steve, Why is it OK to drive CMOS outputs to ground with the "Manual on" switches as you for the timers in your data logger circuits? Is it because of the low currents of CMOS parts? Whenever I have to do this with TTL I would add another input line by using another gate or go to a 3-input device if practical. That article was excellent--a lot of concepts that can be applied in general. --Dale Msg#:29791 *INK* 06/14/90 11:55:13 From: STEVE CIARCIA To: DALE NASSAR (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 29518 (DRIVING CMOS OUTPUTS) For the short time involved using the push button, shorting the CMOS output to ground does not hurt it. If you are a purest, I suppose you could use a 47 Ohm resistor :-) --Steve Msg#:29616 *INK* 06/08/90 01:08:45 From: DAVID GOLDSTROM To: JIM NELSON Subj: 8051 FORTH I saw your old messages about BRYTE FORTH in CCI #8. Tried calling the number but no answer. I just purchased the Cottage Resources 8031 controller module, and this seems like a good time to finally "get into" FORTH programming. Do you know if BRYTE Computers is still in business? If not, know of any other Forth systems for the 8051s? When I saw Leo Brodie's book on FORTH about ten years ago I was really interested, but neither need or opportunity pushed me to try FORTH. Now I need to develop an application in a hurry and thought I'd give it a try. Any suggestions or contacts/phone numbers appreciated. Thanx Msg#:29828 *INK* 06/14/90 23:57:20 From: TIM MCDONOUGH To: DAVID GOLDSTROM (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 29616 (8051 FORTH) David -- BRYTE Forth isn't selling their product anymore. I spoke with one of the people involved with it a month or so ago and got the impression they lost interest. More bad news. If you can still find a copy of BRYTE somewhere, it won't run on the Control-R I or Control-R II without modifying the PC Board. Their Forth requires that the 8031/8032's code and data space be overlapped. As we ship them, the Control-R II doesn't provide that feature. Laborotory Microsystems, Inc. makes a Forth (based on Forth-83) that will cross-compile to 8031 code. It's fairly pricey since it's aimed at commercial developers but the up side is that I don't believe you have to pay them a royalty if you use code generated with it in a commercial product. You can reach LMI at (213) 306-7412. If you want to avoid assembly language programming and are looking for fast development or prototyping I recommend Micromint's 80C52-BASIC chip. Even though most of my final applications are written in assembly I almost always use BASIC-52 to test hardware, theories, great ideas, etc. before I worry about assembler. Tim McDonough (Cottage Resources President, among other things) Msg#:29832 *INK* 06/15/90 00:58:09 From: DAVID GOLDSTROM To: TIM MCDONOUGH (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 29828 (8051 FORTH) Thanx for the info. I thought that I'd found another source, but it requires 32k eprom and maybe overlapping ram to. I'm not actually all that good with BASIC, started out with IBM punch Cards and a FORTRAN Compiler some years ago, then switched to Z80 assembly. Now that I need to learn something it seems like "c" or FORTH would be the way to go. I saw a book on Threaded Interpretive Languages a few years ago, if time allows I may try writing my own (limited) FORTH. Write now though I need to get this ARINC 429 receiver/translator going, so it looks like assembly will be it. I like your board, by the way. THANX DAVE Msg#:30112 *INK* 06/22/90 21:44:37 From: TIM MCDONOUGH To: DAVID GOLDSTROM Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 29832 (8051 FORTH) If you can program in FORTRAN then BASIC shouldn't be too bad to pick up. I learned BASIC first, then FORTRAN on PDP-11 & VAX. Good luck with your project. Tim Msg#:29626 *INK* 06/08/90 06:57:30 From: DAVE EWEN To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: HOSTILE REAL-WORLD Steve, Have you ever considered applying your security system interest and expertise to a really "hostile" security project? I think it would be tremendous to read about a modified Rover system actually detecting and recording some real criminal activity...perhaps an auto alarm...or a warehouse alarm, carefully designed, assembled, and then given a real-world test in a perhaps less-nice corner of Hartford? Surely there might be some such application that would be exciting and do-able(?) Msg#:29797 *INK* 06/14/90 12:45:30 From: STEVE CIARCIA To: DAVE EWEN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 29626 (HOSTILE REAL-WORLD) Eventually, we'll be able to tell you about something like that. ROVER and ROVER/PC are being marketed and will eventually be installed in a lot of hot locations. It was recently demoed for the LAPD and I suppose we should stop in at the Hftd police as well. --Steve Msg#:29632 *INK* 06/08/90 08:57:52 From: RICK BERUBE To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: DATA LOGGER Hi Steve. I enjoyed your article about the portable Data Logger in CCI #15 and have a few questions. 1) You said you used battery -backed memory sockets and low-power CMOS RAMs. You mentioned that they are manufactured by Dallas Semiconductor by can you give me the name of a distributor? Also, are the batteries in these sockets replacable or does the socket itself have to be replaced once the battery dies? 2) You mentioned that the ADC you used is bipolar but that you simply didn't implement it that way. Doesn't the MAX232 also supply -9 volts? Rick :-{) Msg#:29634 *INK* 06/08/90 09:03:12 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: RICK BERUBE (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 29632 (DATA LOGGER) I just answered the SmartSocket questions over in the General area. I'll leave the ADC question for Steve, though. Msg#:29798 *INK* 06/14/90 12:50:15 From: STEVE CIARCIA To: RICK BERUBE (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 29632 (DATA LOGGER) The MAX232 puts out +/- about 9V. If you don't need a lot of current you can tap off these supplies as I did. The ADC0808 and SDA0810 can be used in bipolar operation with a few external components. --Steve Msg#:29662 *INK* 06/09/90 20:49:40 From: BRUCE C. WEBER To: ED NISLEY (Rcvd) Subj: 8051 DIVIDE Ed, The firmware furnace issue #7 Jan/Feb 89 was great, just what I was looking for . So how about an article on the same subject, 8051 long integer math, but on division this time ? My latest project needs long integer math and some division sample programs are just what I am looking for. Thanks, Bruce Msg#:29889 *INK* 06/15/90 20:01:17 From: ED NISLEY To: BRUCE C. WEBER (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 29662 (8051 DIVIDE) Hee hee! No way! Extended precision division is one of those things you don't tackle unless you absolutely must, then you look for a cheap way out. I've dodged the division bullet a couple of times, (one time resorting to a table lookup), so I don't have any code to demonstrate. However, the indefatigable Ray Duncan has been covering just that subject in PC Magazine. A recent article (lost in my heap; I just looked in the folder and it's not where I expected to find it) describes long division. The code is for 8088-class machines, but it turns out that you'll do much the same thing on an 8051. The optimizations (such as they are) depend on how many registers you have available, but the inner loop doesn't use any 8088-specific instructions (as I recall, anyway). Gad. What are you doing with extended arithmetic? Msg#:29994 *INK* 06/19/90 00:19:19 From: JOE MAGNER To: BRUCE C. WEBER (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 29662 (8051 DIVIDE) BRUCE; SEE INTEL EMMBEDDED CONTROL APPS HANDBOOK, 1989. AB-40 FOR SOME 32 BIT MATH ROUTINES. I AM GOING TO UPLOAD A ZIPPED FILE WITH SOME MATH FOR THE 8051 UNDER THE NAME OF MATH51.ZIP J.L. MAGNER Msg#:30160 *INK* 06/25/90 00:02:05 From: BRUCE C. WEBER To: ED NISLEY (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 29889 (8051 DIVIDE) Thanks for the reply Ed. I need the routine for calc data going to a PLL chip and there is some division necessary. Will check out mag article. At least I'm not looking for floating point routines!. Thanks again. Msg#:30161 *INK* 06/25/90 00:05:28 From: BRUCE C. WEBER To: JOE MAGNER (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 29994 (8051 DIVIDE) Thanks for the info Joe. I have looked at the Intel book but would like some more info on it(I'm a slow but steady learner). Will check out your file. Again thanks for the info Msg#:29663 *INK* 06/09/90 20:55:39 From: BOB KRUGGEL To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: DATA LOGGER I'm interested in building the data logger in issue 15, but have a question. What prevents loss of data in the static ram during power up or power down? It seems to me that it is possible to get undesired write and CS signals during power up/down that could corrupt the ram data. Am I missing something? Bob Kruggel Msg#:29766 *INK* 06/13/90 12:18:25 From: RICK BERUBE To: BOB KRUGGEL (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 29663 (DATA LOGGER) BOB, STEVE USED THE 8052-BASIC CHIP IS HIS DESIGN. I BELIEVE THAT HE MAPPED THE CHIP AT 8000H AND BASIC DOESN'T TRY TO RESET RAM THAT HIGH UP UNLESS YOU SUPPLY A CUSTOM RESET ROUTINE. ALSO REMEMBER, THE BASIC52 GENERATES ALL THE I/O LOGIC SIGNALS (I.E., RD/WR AND PSEN) AND WHEN IT IS FIRST POWERED UP, IT IS RUNNING ON INTERNAL ROM ACCESSES UNTIL THE BASIC INTERPRETER IN ITS ROM DECIDES ITS TIME TO ACCESS EXTERNAL MEMORY. SO YOU SEE THE CS SIGNALS WILL NOT BE CORRUPTED UNLESS ACTED UPON BY OUTSIDE PHENOMENA (YOU KNOW, THE BIRDS AND THE BEES AND LIGHTNING!) FEAR NOT UNLESS YOUR PLACING THE DATA LOGGER IN A HAZARDOUS ENVIRONMENT. RICK ;-{) Msg#:29800 *INK* 06/14/90 13:04:01 From: STEVE CIARCIA To: BOB KRUGGEL (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 29663 (DATA LOGGER) You're both sorta right. The EPROM program is stored at $8000 but it is stored with a PROG4 command in basic-52. PROG4 tells BASIC to NOT clear RAM on startup. That's why the static RAM, non-volatile as it is but addressed at $0000, isn't erased. If you had saved the program with a simple PROG command (no extension), it would have been erased. --Steve PS To my knowledge BASIC-52 erased all contiguous RAM all the way to a full 64K if it's there. If you are using combined code/data space with an EPROM at $8000 it stops there because that is obviously not RAM. Finally, depending upon what your time is worth, you may want to buy the dat logger rather than build it. Yes, figure 1 is the schematic of the pure data logger with no extraneous functions but if you look at the photo on page S19 you might have figured that all these functions are provided on an RTC52 and RTCIO board. The timing section is merely added on a proto board on top. Msg#:29814 *INK* 06/14/90 20:53:55 From: BOB KRUGGEL To: RICK BERUBE (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 29766 (DATA LOGGER) Steve, I obviously didn't make myself clear. My concern is what happens to the CS, WR, and RD lines while power is either being applied to, or removed from the 8052 (also when the 8052 has no power applied). What prevents these lines from going to ground and writing garbage data at some random address??????? I would expect all of the output lines from the 8052 to go to ground when power is removed and that the same thing would happen to the chip decoder. I don't know what happens to the Sram when CS, RD, and WR are at ground, but when CS and WR are grounded, data will be written into the Sram. Hope I made it clear this time. Bob Kruggel Msg#:29844 *INK* 06/15/90 08:22:52 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: BOB KRUGGEL (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 29814 (DATA LOGGER) That would be true if you had a plain old SRAM in there with its CS and WR lines tied directly to the processor. Anytime you use a Dallas Semiconductor part to provide battery backup to the memory (such as a DS1213 SmartSocket, DS1216 SMartWatch, or, as Steve used, a DS1230 RAM module), the RAM is write protected anytime Vcc drops below 4.5V (or 4.25V, depending upon which device you're using). Msg#:29951 *INK* 06/17/90 15:07:22 From: BOB KRUGGEL To: KEN DAVIDSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 29844 (DATA LOGGER) Ken, Thanks. I knew I was missing something. Bob Kruggel Msg#:29707 *INK* 06/11/90 21:39:38 From: J. CONRAD HUBERT To: ED NISLEY (Rcvd) Subj: 8051 PUBLIC DOMAIN INTEGER ROUTI To: Ed Nisley Are you aware of any public domain routines for multiple- precision integer arithmetic on the 8051? Specifically, I need to divide a 16-bit number by an 8-bit number and feel the algorithm presented in Knuth is overkill. I'd like to phone you at about 3:00 P.M. (your time) on the 12th to discuses this. Thanks. Msg#:29725 *INK* 06/12/90 09:42:54 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: J. CONRAD HUBERT (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 29707 (8051 PUBLIC DOMAIN INTEGER ROUT) You're not going to have much luck. Ed is away until sometime next week (I think that's when he's coming back). It will have to wait until then. Msg#:29890 *INK* 06/15/90 20:01:47 From: ED NISLEY To: J. CONRAD HUBERT Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 29707 (8051 PUBLIC DOMAIN INTEGER ROUTI) At 3pm on the 12th, I was somewhere over the north Atlantic on the way back from Morocco. Anyhow, getting me on the phone is dicey at best; better you should use the BBS so everyone can benefit from the discussion. I don't have any leads on extended-precision arithmetic. As I mentioned to Bruce Weber (see message 29662 and replies), Ray Duncan has been presenting some code in PC Magazine for the 8088 which should be adaptable to the 8051 with a little effort. I don't think there are any shortcuts to getting the right answer. The fiddling I did on the Mandelbrot engine convinced me that doing it right is tough enough; doing it both fast and right is nearly impossible! Msg#:29995 *INK* 06/19/90 00:21:27 From: JOE MAGNER To: J. CONRAD HUBERT Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 29707 (8051 PUBLIC DOMAIN INTEGER ROUTI) SEE INTELS 1989 EMBEDDED CONTROL APPS HANDBOOK. NOTE AB-40. I AM ALSO GOING TO UPLOAD SOME MATH ROUTINES WITH JUST WHAT YOU WANT. WILL UPLOAD IT AS MATH51.ZIP J.L. MAGNER Msg#:29742 *INK* 06/12/90 22:09:38 From: JEAN DELISLE To: ED NISLEY Subj: PUNT ROUTINE IN TIMING.ASM (CCBM) Ed, Would you please explain to me the purpose of this routine. I need more details regarding your comment "A macro to force I/O recovery". Thanks in advance. ..Jean Delisle Msg#:29744 *INK* 06/12/90 23:41:53 From: JORDAN HARALAMPOPOULOS To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: DATA LOGGER I really enjoyed the Data Logger Project. I've just finished a similar one using the 68HC11 uPU. There is something that can be improved though. The programmable interval timer takes too much space. Since you are using a real time chip(6242) switch to a Motorola 146818A. The chip has anything that you can wish for plus an INT out that can be controlled through a programmable alarm function.....an interval timer with just one chip (ok..maybe some glue logic) and a power consumption of 50 uA. I love the magazine and the BBS Jordan Haralampopoulos Msg#:29748 *INK* 06/13/90 00:36:11 From: JOHN COHAN To: ED NISLEY (Rcvd) Subj: FREQ. MEASUREMENT Ed, 1). I have the ART OF ELECTRONICS and consider it the most valueable refernce book, in my library. Well and wittily written. The A/D converter was for an aircraft temp. logger. working on for local college pollution control project. We also are going to fly weather balloons which send down a series of tones for each of the data channels (temp, pressure, rel. humidity). If you measure the tones, you can figure the data. Each tone last .25 secs and the fram of three tones starts with a high freq. 'reference tone'. I'm going to build a freq. counter by gating a 4 Mhz clock onboard a commercial counter/timer board using the AM9513 counter chip. Each tone can range from 100 to 2000 Hz. So I'll wind up with counts from 10,000 to 500 during each pulse. I remember the coke bottle launcher project of your used a similar technique. Did you use interupts to signal when the pulses were done or did you poll the counter. COuld I reverse the system and count the incoming pulses during a fixed number of 4 Mhx ref. clock cycles. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated. Msg#:29891 *INK* 06/15/90 20:02:28 From: ED NISLEY To: JOHN COHAN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 29748 (FREQ. MEASUREMENT) The Bottle Rocket lives! All that counting was polled, simply because the PC didn't support interrupts from the timer I was using (as I recall; had to fish out the reprint volume to refresh the memory). You set up the counter, start it when the bottom sensor trips, then read the values out as successive sensors blink on as the bottle rips through the gantry. Multiply by the seconds/tick factor and you've got seconds. Poof! Given that you've got control over the hardware and know how long the tones should last, you could count the number of incoming tone pulses during a fixed interval. That has the advantage of averaging out any missing pulses; if you're gating a high-speed clock with a single pulse from the tone burst you'll probably get garbage at least once in a while unless you meaure a _bunch_ of cycles and throw out the obvious duds. Basically, you start one timer when you detect the reference tone; that timer paces the other measurements. Another timer sets the "gate" interval by counting the 4 MHz input clocks. Finally, another timer accumulates tone pulses during the gate interval. All your code does is collect the counts at the right moments and restart the timers! Sounds like fun... keep us informed! Msg#:29916 *INK* 06/16/90 00:19:32 From: JOHN COHAN To: ED NISLEY (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 29891 (FREQ. MEASUREMENT) Ed, Thanks for th info. Gating the 4Mhz counter using the incoming pulses was an idea that the National weather service uses. I don;t know why they do it that way. You're right, we have to measure every pulse in a 2 second time frme and average them out in a histrogrametric algorithm. Maybe you'll understand it better if you get the whole picture: One data frame from the balloon is like this: High refrence tone ...... lasts for about .25 sec and is the highest tome encountered.drifts due to temp changes in flight, but always highest. temp tome pressure tone humidity tone low reference tone........ lowest frequency tone temp pressure hunidity beginning of next frame. entire frame lasts two seconds. maybe they do it that way so that no pulse is lost, but I agree with you, noise is a prob. Wait a minute... now I remember (i'm typing real time here) there is pulse noise as the transmitter changes channels. Maybe thatswhy they do it. Any suggestions, as always, will be greatly appreciated. John Msg#:29819 *INK* 06/14/90 21:32:08 From: JIM MORSE To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: IR REPEATER Hi. I wrote Ken Davidson a msg asking about the repeater that was in the card deck sent out a while back. It says "INK 3/90" on it. (By the way, will more card decks be coming out to us faithful subscribers in the future?) I built the project and it works, but has what I consider quirks. It only picks up signals from 2-3 feet away maximum, and it uses up the batteries real fast. Problem one I solve by putting it close to me (that took a lot of imagination) but it means that the control has to be upside down, and, I'm sorry, but I don't think I'm ever going to get used to using it that way half the time and the opposite way the other half of the time, and I can't bend my hand 180 degrees. Problem two I solved by putting a mini SPST switch in it. Can you help? For more detail if you need it, see my msg of today to Sanjaya Vatuk (I provided the list of parts I used). When I found the design, it filled a void that had existed for almost a year, so that's great. Now I'd like to make what's good better; also I'm curious about why it exhibits this behaviour. I appreciate any help you can give me. Thanks! :-) Msg#:30730 *INK* 07/13/90 09:48:31 From: STEVE CIARCIA To: JIM MORSE (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 29819 (IR REPEATER) Right now I believe 2 INK card decks a year are scheduled. All decks will contain "Tech Tips". Regarding the repeater, I think something must be wrong regarding the current drain. While I personally use a wall module for the power supply and not batteries, I have used the receiving sections (sans the output driver) for other battery powered applications with great success. Also, the circuit is very transistor gain sensitive. Mine has a pickup range of about 15 feet, not 2 feet. Careful, gain on common transistorss can vary considerably from mfr to mfr. --Steve Msg#:30915 *INK* 07/20/90 22:17:52 From: SANJAYA VATUK To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 30730 (IR REPEATER) Can you recommend either a good substitute for the BP186S photodiode or a source for 1-2 of them? I can't seem to find it among my limited sources. Thanks, -- Sanj Msg#:30983 *INK* 07/23/90 11:29:07 From: STEVE CIARCIA To: SANJAYA VATUK (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 30915 (IR REPEATER) Circuit Cellar kits sells photodiodes. Just ask for the ones that go with the master controller kit. --STeve Msg#:31005 *INK* 07/23/90 18:11:35 From: SANJAYA VATUK To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 30983 (IR REPEATER) Thanks, will do. Keep up the great work! -- Sanj Msg#:31015 *INK* 07/23/90 22:05:53 From: JIM MORSE To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 30730 (IR REPEATER) OK, thanks for getting back to me Steve. (1) What would cause current drain? (2) Is CC a source for the transistors also, if not, then recommencation pls? How can I test the transistors, and what spec should they be? ps If anyone else has answers to volunteer, much appreciated also. Thanks! :-) Msg#:31095 *INK* 07/25/90 10:37:31 From: STEVE CIARCIA To: JIM MORSE Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 31015 (IR REPEATER) The best parts source is DigKey (800-344-4539) and the transistors should have a minimum hfe of 100. Regarding the current drain, it might be all relative. The +9v really should be provided by a power module not a 9v battery since the repeater is hard wired in anyway. --Steve Msg#:30057 *INK* 06/20/90 22:26:47 From: JEAN DELISLE To: ED NISLEY (Rcvd) Subj: PUNT ROUTINE IN BOTTLE.ARC (CCBM) Ed, Would you please explain to me the purpose of this routine. I need more details regarding your comment "A macro to force I/O recovery". Thanks in advance. ..Jean Delisle Msg#:30193 *INK* 06/25/90 18:45:13 From: ED NISLEY To: JEAN DELISLE (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 30057 (PUNT ROUTINE IN BOTTLE.ARC (CCBM)) The Original IBM AT doc specified that you needed a null jump after _every_ I/O operation to ensure that the circuitry had time to recover. A null jump is simply a short jump to the next sequential address; in effect, you're jumping to the instruction you'd have gotten to without the jump. What this does (on 80x86 machines) is flush the instruction prefetch queue and guarantee a pipeline break, so there will actually be some delay between two successive instructions. Now, you might think you don't really need that jump if you're using a different machine, but I've found it's also needed on my IBM PS/2 Model 80. Other folks have reported that it's required on some machines; because it's not predictable, you should tuck it into all your code. And a macro called PUNT is the easiest way to do it without bottling all the I/O instructions up in separate macros. That's all there is to it! Msg#:30153 *INK* 06/24/90 17:51:22 From: STAN EKER To: KEN DAVIDSON (Rcvd) Subj: NO IR543 YET!? Well, it's more than a year since you did the article on the IR543 system from X-10 USA, and I still haven't heard anything about it. Did they just drop it, or do they have an unusually long lead time on projects? The clone I made here is still working fine, although I'd like to find some way to simplify it considerably. I suspect I could replace most of the circuitry with a PUT, but haven't seen any useful info anywhere on using the darn things. Everyone says they're wonderful, but a pain to design with. Looks like a great area for some bright soul to write design software, possibly for a senior project. Msg#:30172 *INK* 06/25/90 09:09:22 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: STAN EKER (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 30153 (NO IR543 YET!?) If you're waiting for X-10 to send you something announcing availability, you're expecting too much. I was under the impression that they had actually started shipping the modules. I'd give them a call and find out what's up. You have to keep bugging them. Msg#:30218 *INK* 06/26/90 02:27:44 From: STAN EKER To: KEN DAVIDSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 30172 (NO IR543 YET!?) What did X-10 finally decide to use for a transmitter? Some sort of small handheld like a TV remote? All their other remote devices only offer a subset of the 16 locations and 6 commands, typically 4 or 8 devices and 4 or 5 commands. I realize 20 buttons makes it as large as a playing card, but if you have enough toys to make the remote worthwhile, you're likely maxed out on the original 16 locations. On another note - I have a list (finally) of all the files I DIDN'T send you in the earlier CARE package if you'd like it. On careful checking, a few of the files I sent in the disks are already out there on the board. One of the better I haven't sent yet will go in a few minutes, a simulator for the 68705R3 controller (A/D and EEPROM, only 1 timer). It's both ready-to-go .EXE and the original C source and makefile. Good Stuff. Msg#:30226 *INK* 06/26/90 08:30:07 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: STAN EKER (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 30218 (NO IR543 YET!?) OK. Next time I'll actually read your message. I thought you were talking about the TW523 (as we were in another thread). I don't know if X-10 is shipping IR543s, but Universal Electronics is. They sent me one when they finally had them in stock. In fact, I was going to sit down one weekend and build my own, but never had a chance. The following Monday, a box showed up with one in it. X-10 made the unit specifically for Universal, and Universal wanted it for use with their One-For-All handheld remote. This remote isn't trained like regular universal remotes; it comes with all the codes built into it. You select which devices you want from a book-sized master list, tell the remote the device codes, and it knows how to control them. It has the X-10 codes built in. Contact: Universal Electronics, Inc. 14751 Plaza Dr., Suite J Tustin, CA 92680 (714) 544-5113 By the way, another neat thing about the One-For-All remote is that it comes with a serial cable that lets you hook it up to your computer. Using software that you download from their BBS, you can update the remote with new devices that may not have been available when you bought the remote. You can even "press" buttons on the remote via software control from the PC. Msg#:30241 *INK* 06/26/90 21:51:18 From: THOMAS ALBERT SIMPSON To: SYSOP (Rcvd) Subj: SDA0810 A/D PART I have been unable to find the SDA0810 10 bit A/D converter that was used in the DATA LOGGER construction article. I've checked JAMECO and DIGIKEY catalogs, no luck. Is this a new part? Who carries it? Msg#:30259 *INK* 06/27/90 08:42:07 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: THOMAS ALBERT SIMPSON Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 30241 (SDA0810 A/D PART) You're not going to find something like that from any of the mail order parts places. It's a fairly new part from Siemens and I doubt you'll find it anywhere but from them. Contact: Siemens Components, Inc. 2191 Laurelwood Rd. Santa Clara, CA 95054 (408) 980-4500 Msg#:30265 *INK* 06/27/90 10:18:22 From: JEFF BACHIOCHI To: THOMAS ALBERT SIMPSON Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 30241 (SDA0810 A/D PART) Thomas, Micromint sells the 0810 for $30.00. Ask for the 10-bit A/D upgrade! jeff Msg#:30273 *INK* 06/27/90 15:23:59 From: MARK BALCH To: KEN DAVIDSON (Rcvd) Subj: X10 TRANCEIVER MODULES Hi Ken. I just looked back at Issue #5 for your article on the X10 TW523 power line tranceiver and it's gotten me interested. I have an idea for an X10 network. I'd like to do some small scale stuff so I don't want to run RS-485 wires through three floors of house therefore X10 sounds perfect, but I need to know some facts first. What I plan to do is to have a master controller configured as a hub that continually polls other controller connected through X10. This way, any slave can talk to any other slave through the hub. Then I figured that I could run small, local RS-485 networks off of each slave controller. I'd have one for the attic, one for my room, etc... This will prevent excessive X10 loading as far as nodes are concerned. First of all, does this sound realistic or am I overlooking a key obstacle that will fry my house and anything in it? I wrote to X10 USA today for the same info, but I'd like to get your opinion, since then I may build the tranceivers on my own from the schematics that you had in your article. Thanks...Mark Msg#:30293 *INK* 06/28/90 08:47:53 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: MARK BALCH (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 30273 (X10 TRANCEIVER MODULES) Two limiting factors here are going to be maximum data rate and error (noise) recovery. The second kind of depends on the first. With valid X-10, you send bits only on AC line zero crossings, so at the outset your maximum throughput is only 120 bps. Then you send each bit twice: once in its normal state, then again in its complemented state on the next zero crossing. That cuts you down to 60 bps, but you gain a bit of error checking (checking--not correction). You could probably leave it at that if you were only talking between a pair of computers with no module control, but if you want to stay with a valid X-10 format, you have to begin each packet with a 4-bit start code, then you can send out nine data bits (4 + 9 * 2 = 22 bits all together). Then there has to be at least three zero crossings before you can send the next packet. The TW523 checks incoming packets for errors and only passes along valid packets. Therefore, you have to incorporate a fairly robust protocol in whatever you're doing to allow for lost packets, timeouts, and so on. You could probably make a very (*very*) low performance network with X-10, but I'm not sure you'll find the performance acceptable. As for building your own modules, I really wouldn't recommend it. We're not talking 5 VDC here. At less than $20 (I think) each assembled, tested, and UL approved, you really can't beat it. The schematic was published for informational purposes only. Msg#:30565 *INK* 07/07/90 14:14:30 From: MARK BALCH To: KEN DAVIDSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 30293 (X10 TRANCEIVER MODULES) Gosh, that kinda puts a damper on my plans! Thanks for the info. I suspected that the bit rate would be slow because of the 60Hz line frequency, but I didn't have your first article in the series. With <60bps I'm not going to start with any X10 plans because I have no use for dimming lights at the moment. One of these days, I'll string some twisted pair cable and go with RS-485. Bye...Mark Msg#:30283 *INK* 06/28/90 00:30:57 From: GEORGE COHN To: ALL Subj: HOME CONTROL/SECURITY I'd like to first thank Steve, et al for a terrific magazine. I've followed his column of and on in Byte for some time and also was disappointed by the direction it is seeming to take (Ie: if you're not running at least a 386 with the latest version of Windows, then you're not really computer literate.) I'm really interested in home control and security. I probably have some of the oldest BSR X-10 modules ever made. I've seen the company change and introduce new products but only Radio Shack and Heath seem to carry them anymore. I've bought all of the back issues of CC to catch up on the technology. I realize CEBus will probably be the leading edge in five years but I think there is still life in X-10. Here's my question: Has anyone written a good program for the CP-290 Home Automation Interface? The PC version that comes with the unit is not too impressive. Some years ago, a guy by the name of Doug Mosher wrote a version in TRS Color Computer basic that will blow the socks off the PC version. I'm attempting to port it over to Quickbasic 4.5 but it uses some code specific to the 6809 chip and the old RS Plug- N-Power interface that went with the COCO. (I'm also much better at programming with a soldering iron & wire wrap tool! ) If someone knows of a good program, especially if it support graphics, I would appreciate knowing about it. My ultimate project would be something similar to Steve's original HCS system with the security and Image-wise features, and a display interface that would allow me to tune to an unused channel on my TV and check the status of doors, windows, lights, etc. Any thoughts or hints gratefully accepted. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Msg#:30394 *INK* 07/02/90 01:14:55 From: ANDREW GERALD To: ALL Subj: ETUDE Is anyone building the ETUDE A/D? Having any problems? If anyone has any bug info on these boards please advise. Thanks. Msg#:30395 *INK* 07/02/90 01:21:07 From: ANDREW WEBSTER To: ALL USERS Subj: HELP! Well, after 3 months of patiently waiting I received my LCD displays from TIMELINE. I must admit that they are in no great rush to get the stuff out the door. The displays I got (16char x 1 line) are very nice, the only problem is that they use an elecroluminescent strip for backlighting. I put together a 100V 4Khz AC supply from junk box components, but if I'm not mistaken companies already make such EL panel power supplies. If anyone has the address/phone # of such a company, it would be greatly appreciated. I also received the new Turbo C++ 1.0 from Borland, along with Turbo Debugger 2.0 and Turbo Profiler. The combination makes for some SERIOUS programming tools. The debugger has been really imporved, likewise the C. If you ever thought programming in C was complicated, C++ is even worse! I haven't had a chance to try out all the new features, but its REAL nice. I am looking for a cheap (preferably single chip) NTSC to RGB converter. Signetics has a circuit (1 chip), but it needs all sorts of exotic parts, including TOKO coils, and a 330ns glass delay line. If anyone knows where to get those, and or a better circuit, please let me know. I have built a 512 x 512 interlaced video digitizer. It is color ready, and running B&W right now, as soon as I can get some sort of color converter going I'll be really happy. Yes it has alot of RAM in it (768K for color operation!) -- Andrew Msg#:30411 *INK* 07/02/90 09:32:44 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: ANDREW WEBSTER (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 30395 (HELP!) That's unusual. I ordered the 480 x 128 LCD display from them and got it in a reasonable amount of time. They probably had supply problems. We published a letter in the August/September '89 issue of INK (#10) from Tom Cantrell that describes how to backlight the 16 x 1 displays. He tells about the Optrex D32-45 inverter available from Digi-Key (part number OP002) for $9.50. It converts 5 VDC to 100 VAC at 400 Hz to drive the EL backpanel. Msg#:30425 *INK* 07/02/90 14:54:23 From: RANDY G FERRELL To: ANDREW WEBSTER (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 30395 (HELP!) DIGIKEY SELLES EL POWER SUPPLY THAT CONVERTS +5V V TO 100V AT 400HZS FOR 10.00 EACH|\T./6W Msg#:30432 *INK* 07/02/90 21:36:59 From: PAUL PETERSEN To: ANDREW WEBSTER (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 30395 (HELP!) andrew, andersen labs in bloomfield ct makes glass and quartz delay lines. :) Msg#:30626 *INK* 07/09/90 12:49:04 From: ED NISLEY To: RANDY G FERRELL (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 30425 (HELP!) The new Marlin P Jones catalog (address &c in Files section) has an EL panel a foot long _with_ a power converter for seven bucks; buy the pair and junk the display... Msg#:30652 *INK* 07/10/90 09:25:50 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: ED NISLEY (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 30626 (HELP!) Actually, the address is in the otes section... Msg#:30749 *INK* 07/13/90 17:35:12 From: ED NISLEY To: KEN DAVIDSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 30652 (HELP!) I grove, I abase myself, I kiss your feet. Msg#:30868 *INK* 07/19/90 00:38:37 From: ANDREW WEBSTER To: KEN DAVIDSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 30411 (HELP!) Thanks for the info... I wonder how I missed that one... -- Andrew Msg#:30972 *INK* 07/23/90 11:00:49 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: ED NISLEY (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 30749 (HELP!) (Darn well better...) ;-) Msg#:30437 *INK* 07/03/90 00:12:05 From: JOEL KERR To: MARK BALCH (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 30272 (FUTURE THEMES, ARTICLES...) i'll bet the logic analyzer and the spectrum analyzer could use the same "core". that is with minimal changes they could built from the same starting point. Check your land mail-- enevelope in transit. Joel Kerr Msg#:30566 *INK* 07/07/90 14:17:23 From: MARK BALCH To: JOEL KERR (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 30437 (FUTURE THEMES, ARTICLES...) Thanks for the info Joel. I haven't yet had a chance to really look at it, but the schematics seem a bit scary to me. Remember, I'm self-taught in digital, not analog so much although I am learning more slowly. In the way of making a digital version, I assume that you'd need some very expensive flash ADC's to convert the vert/horz outputs into good resolution (8 bits) and do it at 100MHz. That sounds real expensive to me. With a good analog front end as in the article you sent, it could be done but at what cost? Bye...Mark Msg#:30455 *INK* 07/03/90 07:03:11 From: DAVE EWEN To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: SYNTH ACTORS Steve, Could you please ask your brother why he chose to use a grinning octapus as an example? I would have sort of prefered something simpler, then maybe he could have actually worked the example... Msg#:30735 *INK* 07/13/90 10:13:29 From: STEVE CIARCIA To: DAVE EWEN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 30455 (SYNTH ACTORS) Actually, that might be something you and he better battle out. I doon't want to start any family feuds :-) Check the INK ads for Tardis Systems (past or next issues). You can contact Chris there. --Steve Msg#:30507 *INK* 07/05/90 05:43:58 From: DALE NASSAR To: JEFF BACHIOCHI (Rcvd) Subj: COM/LPT PORT POWER Jeff, How about a "From the Bench" on powering devices that must be run from the COM and LPT ports? --Dale Msg#:30530 *INK* 07/06/90 08:25:43 From: JEFF BACHIOCHI To: DALE NASSAR (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 30507 (COM/LPT PORT POWER) Dale, Since no (direct) power is available on either of the two (serial or parallel) ports, are you suggesting a calculable expectation of the maximum drive , stealing juice from the control bits, etc. ? jeff Msg#:30582 *INK* 07/08/90 04:15:44 From: DALE NASSAR To: JEFF BACHIOCHI (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 30530 (COM/LPT PORT POWER) That's about it Jeff--Seems it's being done a lot (I haven't played around with it yet). Several serial mice I have dissected seem to have (fairly) regulated DC powering their chips. Maybe some kind of rectifier/filter circuit is used with the RS232 levels (on some I've even measured bipolar voltages around +/-12VDC). As for the parallel ports, those dongles have several IC's that require power. Perhaps stealing juice from the bits is the way to get power here--I guess the software could send a bunch of 1's (or somehow use the heavier current sinking 0's) to juice it up. I've never seen any articles dealing with this subject--which I think would be of intrest to designers. --Dale Msg#:30608 *INK* 07/09/90 08:44:54 From: JEFF BACHIOCHI To: DALE NASSAR (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 30582 (COM/LPT PORT POWER) Dale, So noted! That's for input. CMOS is alive and well and living in mice of America. jeff Msg#:30539 *INK* 07/06/90 09:28:49 From: SANJAYA VATUK To: JIM MORSE (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 29818 (IR REPEATER) Thanks for the info. Sorry about the delay, but I was out of town and was only able to quickly download messages. Haven't had a chance to try it your way yet, but I'll let you know how it turns out when I do. Thanx, -- Sanj Msg#:30557 *INK* 07/07/90 09:42:19 From: JIM MORSE To: SANJAYA VATUK (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 30539 (IR REPEATER) No problem with time delays, it happens to me all the time. Good luck. Msg#:30545 *INK* 07/06/90 18:15:57 From: MARK DUQUETTE To: ALL Subj: LM018L DISPLAY I am trying to get a LM018L display to work with the RTCLCD board no go I can get contrast but nothing else. ANY IDEAS? THANKS! Msg#:30619 *INK* 07/09/90 09:56:24 From: JEFF BACHIOCHI To: MARK DUQUETTE (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 30545 (LM018L DISPLAY) Mark, The LM018L is easy to talk to. Three control lines and 4/8 data lines is all it takes (aside from Vcc and ground). Determine which interface you are using, nibble (4) or byte (8). The first byte (or two nibbles) initializes the LCD's mode. (In the nibble mode, you use the most significant bits D4-D7, sending the upper nibble first.) If reset requirements are not met electrically, reset through software is required. Wait 15ms after power-up and send 3xH (8 bit mode) 3H (4 bit mode) three times with 5ms in between bytes. A this point the function, display, clear, and entry mode bytes are sent and your display should be cleared. The busy flag can be used for instruction timing after the reset sequence. During the reset sequence you must use delays (as above). If you don't have a complete data sheet on the HD44780 (the processor used on the LCD) call Hitachi (312) 843-1144. You will find it indispensable! jeff Msg#:30631 *INK* 07/09/90 12:52:09 From: ED NISLEY To: JEFF BACHIOCHI (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 30619 (LM018L DISPLAY) Actually, the Hitachi data sheet is "indecipherable" as well as "indispensable." But a few days poring over it will give you the info you need. They write better English than I do Japanese, so credit where credit is due... As far as the timings go, you just can't go wrong by waiting too long. I ran into a board with a half-speed osillator, so all the timings in the data sheet were 2x too short. Don't be in too much of a hurry... and you'll still update the display faster than the LCD can make the characters visible! Msg#:30637 *INK* 07/09/90 20:07:04 From: MARK DUQUETTE To: JEFF BACHIOCHI (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 30619 (LM018L DISPLAY) Thanks for the help. I found part of the problem while browsing the board a very small solder bridge on the RTC-52. The software from the furnace #15 works but the routine LCD.BAS packed with the RTC-LCD will not initialize the board. I find that strange because the code is vertualy identical. At least they are on speaking terms. On with the battle. THANKS AGAIN MARK Msg#:30565 *INK* 07/07/90 14:14:30 From: MARK BALCH To: KEN DAVIDSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 30293 (X10 TRANCEIVER MODULES) Gosh, that kinda puts a damper on my plans! Thanks for the info. I suspected that the bit rate would be slow because of the 60Hz line frequency, but I didn't have your first article in the series. With <60bps I'm not going to start with any X10 plans because I have no use for dimming lights at the moment. One of these days, I'll string some twisted pair cable and go with RS-485. Bye...Mark Msg#:32928 *INK* 09/24/90 21:49:35 From: BRIAN HARTSON To: MARK BALCH Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 30565 (X10 TRANCEIVER MODULES) mark take a look at the july-aug 1988 issue of popular electronics and some back issues of byte where steve designs a current carrier modem the issues of (sorry ) radio electronics show the design of a pair of 9600 buad currenr carrier modems, they should adapt right well to that kind of project, or look at a project in a later 1990 issue of popular/radio electronics that deals with extending your audio electronic (tv,vcr,stereo) by using simple current carrier circuits. Msg#:30588 *INK* 07/08/90 21:48:17 From: LEE HEESACKER To: ALL USERS Subj: CCINK#15 DATA LOGGER I hope someone can give me a few cents worth of advice. I'm quite interested in building a data logger similar to the one described in the supplement to issue #15. I have a few specific questions; First; Where is a reasonable mail order source for the Dallas Semiconductor DS1230Y? Second; Where is a reasonable mail order source for the LM34 temperature sensors. I've checked the two or three sources I often use and none of them stock these items (I use JDR and Jame3co quite a bit, they're local to me. Any suggestions appreciated. Third; In scanning the project files, there doesn't seem to be a listing of the Basic program for this project. Have I missed something or is it not yet posted? Regards, Lee Heesacker Msg#:30618 *INK* 07/09/90 09:18:18 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: LEE HEESACKER (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 30588 (CCINK#15 DATA LOGGER) Like Steve said in the article, software is left as an exercise for the reader. It is so application specific that posting it really wouldn't do you much good. It isn't posted and there are no plans to post it in the future. Msg#:30665 *INK* 07/11/90 00:30:50 From: LEE HEESACKER To: KEN DAVIDSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 30618 (CCINK#15 DATA LOGGER) Thanks for the prompt reply. I guess I can figure out how to write the Basic program well enough. I'd still like to know where I can get the Dallas Semiconductor DS-1230Y. I share with Steve the opinion that a data logger that loses all of the recorded data on a power failure is a terrible thing. I've checked JDR, Jameco and Mouser. None of them seem to stock the special CMOS RAM with Lithium battery module. Any thoughts? Regards, Lee Msg#:30671 *INK* 07/11/90 11:34:23 From: JEFF BACHIOCHI To: LEE HEESACKER (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 30665 (CCINK#15 DATA LOGGER) Lee, See INK issue 16 (AUG/SEPT 90). 'From the Bench' explains how to build your own battery-backed-RAM module. jeff Msg#:30633 *INK* 07/09/90 12:53:06 From: ED NISLEY To: CURT FRANKLIN (Rcvd) Subj: ARTICLE TOPIC! A friend suggested INK ought to have an article or three on hardware and software for astronomy telescope aiming. He's seen a package that handles the computing end: you tell it what the directions are for a couple of key stars, tell it the date and time, then it tells you where to look for whatever star or planet you'd like, whenever you want. Now, for the tracking motor controllers... You know any astronomy buffs out there who are experts in the field _and_ want some fame&fortune? Msg#:30658 *INK* 07/10/90 10:59:08 From: CURT FRANKLIN To: ED NISLEY (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 30633 (ARTICLE TOPIC!) I've heard this suggestion before, and I'm all in favor of it--now to find some authors! I've tried to convince Jeff that this would be good "From the Bench" material, but he's successfully ducked the issue, so far. I would love to have some good astronomy-related stuff...how about it, good readers? Any budding authors out there? Curt Msg#:30663 *INK* 07/10/90 22:29:06 From: FRANK HENRIQUEZ To: ED NISLEY (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 30633 (ARTICLE TOPIC!) Hey guys, Astronomy has been bery bery gud to me... it pays the mortgage AND it's a hobby, too. I have computerized a 24" telescope that sits on the roof (right over my office) and it's driven by two *small* stepper motors controlled by a very nice intelligent controller (based on the STD bus) made by Oregon Micro Systems. The controller, in turn, has a serial port and IT is controlled by a PC clone. My software will accept a star's position from the user and will decide if it's above the horizon. If it is, the 'scope zips over to the star. The fine positioning, guiding and slew are controlled with a joystick connected to the PC game port. The software can also access the SAO catalog of star positions. Focusing is done by moving the secondary mirror with another small stepper (taken from a dead hard disk head positioner...) and it too is done remotely. Eventually, the dome rotation will be sync'd to the telescope motion. I also want to move most of the code to the Mac; I have a nice star catalog on my Mac II at work, and I could display a finder chart and have the 'scope slew to any star in the chart. Besides, I hate working on PCs - makes me feel handicapped. The plan is to have the telescope act like a computer peripheral; you could dial it up remotely, set up an observation sequence and forget about the dirty work - the next day, your data would be in a file on the hard disk. The 24" has a spectrograph and a CCD camera, and will soon have an image intensifier, so images will also be available. The hardest part has been the polar alignment of the telescope. even though I have a small routine to put the 'scope in the right position, I still have to walk around and under it to adust the leveling screws, etc. It's hard and slow work. Still, it's impressive to watch this massive telescope slew at high speed ("high" = 5 degrees/sec) driven by tiny stepper motors (they fit easily in the palm of your hand). The old setup used massive AC motors and a bizzare baroque electronic control system to move the telescope, something it did not do very well. I'm also working on a simpler stepper motor driver, that I could plop onto a smaller, amateur telescope. The current setup from OMS cost around $3500 (including the motors, excluding the PC and software) which is a great price for industrial quality, micro-stepping stuff, but a bit steep for amateurs. Msg#:30670 *INK* 07/11/90 11:31:12 From: JEFF BACHIOCHI To: CURT FRANKLIN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 30658 (ARTICLE TOPIC!) Curt, See, here, already been done! Sounds like a great implementation too! Sign this guy up. jeff Msg#:30704 *INK* 07/12/90 10:23:10 From: CURT FRANKLIN To: FRANK HENRIQUEZ (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 30663 (ARTICLE TOPIC!) Wow! Keep us in mind for an article (or two) as you continue to work on your equipment. You might be surprised at how monay CCINK readers are also into astronomy. By the way, are you building the image intensifier? I've had a couple of requests for projects on building CCD image intensifiers... Curt Msg#:30716 *INK* 07/12/90 23:02:04 From: FRANK HENRIQUEZ To: CURT FRANKLIN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 30704 (ARTICLE TOPIC!) Will do. As for the image intensifiers: I found a nice, compact HV power supply that runs off 10 - 14 volts and produces around 2 KV. It works great with the image intensifiers (and it makes a GREAT stun gun...I know from personal experience). I haven't had time to put it all in a box (the image intensifiers have to be well shielded to avoid shocks and arcing). Once that's done, I'm going to use it as the guide scope camera for the 24". I'll use the intensifier with out Pulinix CCD camera (or the Panasonic) and maybe I'll get some nice pictures I can upload. As for computer control of telescopes: There are a few companies that are making software/hardware combos for Amateur scopes. Celestron has a small controller that they sell with steppers and encoders, but I've used the version on their 14", and it is terrible. DFT Engineering has a great setup, and so does SBRI (which runs on PCs and Macs). Carina Software just came out with a new version of their Voyager planetarium program for the Mac that attatches to an external stepper motor controller. Prices for all these setups run between $700 - $4000. Msg#:30730 *INK* 07/13/90 09:48:31 From: STEVE CIARCIA To: JIM MORSE (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 29819 (IR REPEATER) Right now I believe 2 INK card decks a year are scheduled. All decks will contain "Tech Tips". Regarding the repeater, I think something must be wrong regarding the current drain. While I personally use a wall module for the power supply and not batteries, I have used the receiving sections (sans the output driver) for other battery powered applications with great success. Also, the circuit is very transistor gain sensitive. Mine has a pickup range of about 15 feet, not 2 feet. Careful, gain on common transistorss can vary considerably from mfr to mfr. --Steve Msg#:30915 *INK* 07/20/90 22:17:52 From: SANJAYA VATUK To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 30730 (IR REPEATER) Can you recommend either a good substitute for the BP186S photodiode or a source for 1-2 of them? I can't seem to find it among my limited sources. Thanks, -- Sanj Msg#:30983 *INK* 07/23/90 11:29:07 From: STEVE CIARCIA To: SANJAYA VATUK (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 30915 (IR REPEATER) Circuit Cellar kits sells photodiodes. Just ask for the ones that go with the master controller kit. --STeve Msg#:31005 *INK* 07/23/90 18:11:35 From: SANJAYA VATUK To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 30983 (IR REPEATER) Thanks, will do. Keep up the great work! -- Sanj Msg#:31015 *INK* 07/23/90 22:05:53 From: JIM MORSE To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 30730 (IR REPEATER) OK, thanks for getting back to me Steve. (1) What would cause current drain? (2) Is CC a source for the transistors also, if not, then recommencation pls? How can I test the transistors, and what spec should they be? ps If anyone else has answers to volunteer, much appreciated also. Thanks! :-) Msg#:31095 *INK* 07/25/90 10:37:31 From: STEVE CIARCIA To: JIM MORSE Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 31015 (IR REPEATER) The best parts source is DigKey (800-344-4539) and the transistors should have a minimum hfe of 100. Regarding the current drain, it might be all relative. The +9v really should be provided by a power module not a 9v battery since the repeater is hard wired in anyway. --Steve Msg#:30815 *INK* 07/16/90 23:28:49 From: MIKE DREW To: ALL Subj: MOUSE RULES I really enjoyed the article about building the MITEE mouse III. The one thing it left me asking for was a description of the rules of the contest. Perhaps this will be covered in part II of the article. But, in case it isn't, is there someone who could enlighten me? I would really like to know more. - Thanks, Mike Msg#:30833 *INK* 07/17/90 09:13:25 From: CURT FRANKLIN To: MIKE DREW (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 30815 (MOUSE RULES) Yipes, we were planning to publish the rules, but they were cut for space reasons. We do have copies of the rules--if you'd like a copy, send a SASE to: Mouse Maze Rules Circuit Cellar INK 4 Park Street Vernon, CT 06066 and we'll get a copy right out to you. Curt Msg#:30904 *INK* 07/20/90 11:42:03 From: BRIAN K. OGILVIE To: MIKE DREW Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 30815 (MOUSE RULES) Why not post the rules here (as a message if they're short or a downloadable file if they're long)? Msg#:31041 *INK* 07/24/90 13:11:56 From: CURT FRANKLIN To: BRIAN K. OGILVIE (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 30904 (MOUSE RULES) Gee, that's not a bad idea. I'll see if we can shake someone free to type the rules in, and get them posted. There will be a system bulletin if we do. In the meantime, the offer via USMail still holds. Thanks for the suggestion. Curt Msg#:31061 *INK* 07/24/90 17:01:23 From: ED NISLEY To: CURT FRANKLIN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 31041 (MOUSE RULES) That's spelled USNail, please... Msg#:31093 *INK* 07/25/90 10:22:27 From: CURT FRANKLIN To: ED NISLEY (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 31061 (MOUSE RULES) Well, my favorite appellation for our postal system is Snail Mail, but that seems to touch on some very raw nerves down at the post office... Curt Msg#:31150 *INK* 07/26/90 14:16:09 From: ED NISLEY To: CURT FRANKLIN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 31093 (MOUSE RULES) You didn't walk up to the counter and ask for Mr. Snail, did you? Msg#:30850 *INK* 07/17/90 22:23:36 From: MARC DAVID BUMBLE To: KEN DAVIDSON (Rcvd) Subj: SCSI PROJECT Hi, Im still working on the SCSI project in the April/May 90 CCI issue. Ive got the SCSI test box wired up and working in an enclosure and I am now debugging a printed circuit board for the SCSI interface board. The listed schematic used a 74S38 Quad Two input Nand buffers with open collector outputs in a Schottky package. I found a 74F38 chip it has additional marking PC 8747 ZSingapore. Will this 74F38 be a reliable substitute for the 74S38 or could this be a part of my problem? Msg#:30984 *INK* 07/23/90 11:33:05 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: MARC DAVID BUMBLE (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 30850 (SCSI PROJECT) I looked up the drive current capabilities of the 'S38 and 'F38 and you should be OK using the 'F38 as long as you don't try to use too many devices on the bus. The extra markings on the chip are just the date code and the country where it was made. Msg#:31205 *INK* 07/28/90 15:11:25 From: MARC DAVID BUMBLE To: KEN DAVIDSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 30984 (SCSI PROJECT) Thanks, I had a feeling that that chip was not the problem. My hardware now seems to working ok. The SCSI interface board no longer crashes the Computer on a regular basis and if anything does go wrong the reset line (RST\) on the SCSI Test Box seems to clear all problems. Ive run the interface board thorough full continutity checks and I am sure I have reproduced the schematics listed. Im not sure how to implement the software routines listed in the article and the software is probably the problem. Running the scuzzy_deselect: assembly code causes the execution to not properly branch on after the "btst.b #6,RdStatus(A0) " command. Do I need to add a command to put the SCSI base address into A0 register? If so, is it something like "move.b SCSIBase68000, A0 " or something like that? Thanks for the help. Msg#:30875 *INK* 07/19/90 07:31:55 From: RICHARD FOLEA To: CCINK Subj: BACK ISSUES When will a reprint book be available for year #2? Msg#:30997 *INK* 07/23/90 15:08:47 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: RICHARD FOLEA (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 30875 (BACK ISSUES) There aren't any plans for such a book at the moment, but that doesn't mean there won't ever be one. When there is enough demand, one will probably be made. Anything more definite than that, Curt? Msg#:31038 *INK* 07/24/90 12:28:22 From: RICHARD FOLEA To: KEN DAVIDSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 30997 (BACK ISSUES) Thanks, Ken. I am a current subscriber that purchased the first bound volume. I would buy a set of reprints if theyh?lTj%^V_y{were all available. So, I guess I just have to wait for the bound version. (I'll put it on my Xmas whish list!) Msg#:31042 *INK* 07/24/90 13:15:05 From: CURT FRANKLIN To: RICHARD FOLEA (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 30875 (BACK ISSUES) We've talked about a second year reprint, and there will be one...eventually. We went to the first year reprint when four of the six issue had sold out. As of today, only #9 from the second year has sold out, so we'll probably wait until at least one more issue is gone. My best guess is that third or fourth quarter of this year is a possibility. Curt Msg#:31082 *INK* 07/25/90 07:21:33 From: RICHARD FOLEA To: CURT FRANKLIN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 31042 (BACK ISSUES) Thanks for the info. I am looking forward to it! Msg#:30878 *INK* 07/19/90 10:41:31 From: CHRIS PROZZO To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: R/C TECH TIP Steve, I am ordering parts to build the R/C transmitter and receiver described in your Tech Tip (3/90). The design is based on Nationals LM1871 and LM1872. I cant find a source for the 49.86Mhz 3rd overtone parallel resonant crystal and the inductor before the antenna on the transmitter has a Toko part number which is incomplete. Can you help with a crystal source and last 6 digits (or inductance) of the Toko part, I would greatly appreciate it. Chris Prozzo Msg#:30880 *INK* 07/19/90 11:05:30 From: STEVE CIARCIA To: CHRIS PROZZO (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 30878 (R/C TECH TIP) The author of that tech tip is Burt Brown. Call him at 203-875-2199 and ask him about sources. --steve Msg#:30884 *INK* 07/19/90 20:37:54 From: DALE NASSAR To: CHRIS PROZZO (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 30878 (R/C TECH TIP) From my Lit, the inductor is described as a "2.7uH r-f coil". A couple of years ago, I spent a lot of time trying to get those circuits working but with no success. I've found several descriptions on constructing it and none are the same--particularly in the crystals used. I even tried making a "best match" from each source with no luck. I ordered a kit from a Modern Electronics article (August 1985)--this was a $75 joke on me. First of all I only got about half the parts needed (most of which didn't nearly fit on the board) and the rest weren't even part of the circuit. I called them (Advanced Analog Systems) and they just said "tough luck". There was also a detailed description of the two IC's and plenty of sample circuits in the National Linear data book, but I couldn't get any to work. Maybe it's just that the high frequency doesn't mix with the breadboards? If you get it working please let me know. I should have all the parts to construct a couple of sets of circuits. If you have no luck finding your part numbers let me know--I also have a TOKO catalog here somewhere. --Dale Msg#:31049 *INK* 07/24/90 15:58:30 From: BURT BROWN To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 30880 (R/C TECH TIP) Sorry about that. The correct antenna coil part number is a MILLER #9330-10. Jameco (415)592-8097, has a 49.890 MHz crystal which will also work. Basically, the circuit is designed to work in either the 27 MHz or 49 MHz low power "walkie talkie" band (coils are different though). You should also be able to salvage the XTALs from these units. -- Burt Msg#:30894 *INK* 07/20/90 03:21:29 From: JOEL KOLSTAD To: ED NISELY + OTHER LCD FOLKS Subj: LCD DISPLAYS Okay, guys, I have a slight problem here. I just got a hold of one of those nifty 16 character by 1 line LCD displays that use the Hitachi controllers. I want to to use it with an 8748... I got Ed's program that shows off their capbilities, and it ran just fine. I started out on the 8748 and, after a while, got it to print characters just fine. Now, I can send it any command I want and it'll do it... EXCEPT if I want to send a "read" type of command -- the busy flag check and the RAM reading command. I've included the relevant sections of code below. As you can probably tell from the EQUs, the LCD is hooked up starting at bit #6 on the BUS port, with the pins Enable, R/W, and RS on bits 6-4, and DB7-DB4 on pins 3-0. The problem is that the LCD seems to ignore me. Down in LCDIn I can change the "mov a,#Enable+...+%1111" to "...+%" and that's what the program will get back. Argh! Why doesn't the LCD change BUS's lines during the "ins a,bus?" What am I doing wrong!? As you can tell from the code, this is a four bit interface. I apologize about the lack of comments. :-) It's hopefully some pretty self-explanatory non-working code. Also, the 8748 is using an 11MHz crystal, which gives it a cycles time of about 1.35us -- I don't think that timing is the problem, though, since I've tried inserting LONG delays in LCDIn, and it didn't help... Thanks to anyone who can help... ---Joel Kolstad kolstad@case.wisc.edu, if you have Usenet access... ;-------------------------------------------------------------------------- - Enable equ %01000000 RW equ %00100000 RS equ %00010000 LBits equ %00001111 ;-------------------------------------------------------------------------- - LCDIn ;Read a nibble from the LCd mov a,#Enable+RW+%1111 <-----------* outl bus,a | ins a,bus | anl bus,#255-Enable | anl a,#LBits ;always the same as --* ret ;-------------------------------------------------------------------------- - BusyChk ;Read busy status from LCD call LCDIn ;Get busy flag and LSB of address mov r0,a ;Save it call LCDIn ;MSB of address mov r1,a ;Save mov a,r0 ;lsb and busy flag anl a,#%1000 ;isolate busy jnz BusyChk ;still busy (given the %1111 above, this would ret ;loop forever...) ;-------------------------------------------------------------------------- - --- Sorry about some of those lines that were too long... I'll chop'em next time... Msg#:31054 *INK* 07/24/90 16:20:34 From: ED NISLEY To: JOEL KOLSTAD (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 30894 (LCD DISPLAYS) Hmm... all I know about the 8048 is what I just read out of the manual, but it sez: "INS does not put the bus in a high impedance state. Therefore, the use of MOVX after OUTL to put the BUS in a high impedance state before an INS instuction intended to read an external word (as opposed to the previously latched value)." Translated from Intel-ese, that means you've got to set all the output bits to FF before you can read anything back. If it's any consolation, you've got to do the same thing with the 8031... which I just screwed up. You're in good company around here! Msg#:30913 *INK* 07/20/90 22:14:47 From: SANJAYA VATUK To: KEN DAVIDSON (Rcvd) Subj: BARE PC BOARDS I suppose this may have come up before, but is there any possibility of CCI or Micromint selling bare PC boards for some of the existing projects? A lot of us have pretty decent supplies of chips and stuff, and a bare board for something like the RTC-31 or DDT would probably be VERY popular. Speaking of boards, who does the Micromint PCB fabrication - they are beautiful! Do they do prototype quantities? Many thanks, -- Sanj Msg#:30988 *INK* 07/23/90 11:53:04 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: SANJAYA VATUK (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 30913 (BARE PC BOARDS) The question often comes up and the answer is always the same: blank PC boards are *never* available for any Micromint or CCI product. Micromint sells nothing but assembled and tested boards and CCI sells both full kits and experimenter kits. The experimenter kits contain the PC board plus any hard-to-find parts and programmed parts. Developing these projects is an expensive undertaking and the cost must be recovered in some way. Selling just a blank board for the cost of the board plus some mark up isn't realistic since the development cost isn't included. We could sell you a blank board for $200 to cover development, production, and support, but I don't think you'd appreciate that. Kits continue to be the minimum available for any project. We have PC boards made by a number of different board houses. We're very picky about what the boards look like, and I think customers appreciate that. They are mostly just double-sided, solder masked and silkscreened boards. I can point you to a place that makes beautiful boards in prototype quantities, but you're back up to the $200 per board price range again (set up and tooling charges will kill you with small quantities). Msg#:31007 *INK* 07/23/90 18:19:04 From: SANJAYA VATUK To: KEN DAVIDSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 30988 (BARE PC BOARDS) Thanks for the reply. It does help a lot to know the reasons for something, and as I'm kind of new around here I don't yet know it all. (Not that I ever will come close :-) ) I have bought several of the kits, and as my prev. msg. indicated, I am impressed by the quality. -- Sanj Msg#:30914 *INK* 07/20/90 22:15:51 From: SANJAYA VATUK To: KEN DAVIDSON (Rcvd) Subj: ISSUE #16 I saw a mention of issue #16 a short time ago. Does this mean I didn't get my copy, or is it still forthcoming? Anxiously awaiting it, -- Sanj P.S. - I finally cancelled my subscription to BYTE. I started getting it about a year before Steve left, and was just waiting for it to lapse, since the only reason I subscribed in the first place was Circuit Cellar. Today I realized I had another year and a half to go. No way!!! Charter subscriber to INK, tho. Keep up the great work! Msg#:30989 *INK* 07/23/90 11:54:19 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: SANJAYA VATUK (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 30914 (ISSUE #16) Give it another week or two for issue #16. It just started mailing within the last few days (if even that long ago). Msg#:31008 *INK* 07/23/90 18:19:34 From: SANJAYA VATUK To: KEN DAVIDSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 30989 (ISSUE #16) Got it today! Yoweee! Msg#:30946 *INK* 07/22/90 08:04:04 From: MARK DUQUETTE To: STEVE & ALL Subj: NON-VOLATILE RAM I HAVE FOUND A REASONABLE SOURCE FOR THE DS1225, DS1235. AMERICAN DESIGN COMPONENTS 815 FAIRVIEW AVENUE PO BOX 220 FAIRVIEW, NJ 07022 PART NO CONFIG PRICE DS1225/48Z08 8K x 8 19.95 DS1235/48Z08 32K x 8 32.95 IF anyone finds a better source let me know thanks MARK D. Msg#:31639 *INK* 08/09/90 12:57:03 From: LARRY G NELSON SR To: MARK DUQUETTE (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 30946 (NON-VOLATILE RAM) Dallas semiconductor chips are also available from : Sterling Electronics 15D Constitution way Woburn Ma 01801 617-938-6200 The prices are similar but the 8Kx8 was cheaper than you show by a few dollars. They will ship COD and have a $15 minimum order. I am sure there are other Stelinig offices that may be closer to you. They also showed me the SIP STICK products they have. VERY IMPRESSIVE! Larry Msg#:31742 *INK* 08/12/90 10:30:18 From: MARK DUQUETTE To: LARRY G NELSON SR (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 31639 (NON-VOLATILE RAM) THANKS I WILL CHECK TM OUT MARK Msg#:31022 *INK* 07/24/90 00:38:35 From: GEORGE COHN To: SYSOP (Rcvd) Subj: ASTERISKS This may be a dumb question and I'm sure the answer will be obvious once I hear it, but what does the * in front of some pin functions mean in CCI? For instance: *PSEN or *CS. Thanks. Msg#:31031 *INK* 07/24/90 08:45:57 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: GEORGE COHN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 31022 (ASTERISKS) That means the signal is active low. It is often difficult to put a bar over a signal name to denote active low, so numerous schemes are used by different people to try to show the same thing. Often-used conventions are *PSEN, -PSEN, PSEN/, and PSEN\. Up to this point, we've tried to stay with the PSEN\ form in the magazine, but once in a while, one of the other forms crops up. I've been thinking of changing over to the -PSEN form, which is what Ed seems to prefer. I've always used PSEN\ since the backslash is about as close as you can come to putting a bar over the signal name, but it gets confusing with signals like R/W\ (that's active high read, active low write). What do other people think? (I know. This is like asking what the best programming language is. We're going to have a religious war here.) Msg#:31059 *INK* 07/24/90 17:00:34 From: ED NISLEY To: KEN DAVIDSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 31031 (ASTERISKS) Well, I like a leading minus sign simply because it tells you right off the bat that the signal is inverted. It's mnemonic for inversion ("minus" is "negative", right?) and, if you're really compulsive, you can pair it with + to make absolutely sure nobody misunderstands: +Rd/-Wr. Of course, it's all how ya was brung up. I learned minus-ing at IBM; as I recall, the net names fed into their design system, so having a polarity indication was not just nice idea, it was the Law. FIRE! Msg#:31069 *INK* 07/24/90 20:57:35 From: PAUL PETERSEN To: KEN DAVIDSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 31031 (ASTERISKS) ken, after reading your explination of what the * means the message was followed on the next line by (*)Replies .... i thought um.... does that mean that replies are active low.... it was funny tho.. -NAM sounds more reasonable.... Msg#:31165 *INK* 07/27/90 01:34:26 From: TOM SULLIVAN To: GEORGE COHN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 31022 (ASTERISKS) I vote for the astericks. Never liked the backslash (\). The minus sign is ok but with a poor copy perhaps not as obvious as the * ;-). Msg#:31173 *INK* 07/27/90 11:42:33 From: JEFF BACHIOCHI To: GEORGE COHN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 31022 (ASTERISKS) I always thought '/' and '\' were too confusing, '-' indicated a negative analog signal, and '*' was a good compromise! jeff Msg#:31183 *INK* 07/27/90 17:55:26 From: ED NISLEY To: JEFF BACHIOCHI (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 31173 (ASTERISKS) Looked at that way, '*' has all of the options superimposed. Guess you can't go wrong... Msg#:31482 *INK* 08/05/90 19:14:32 From: GEORGE COHN To: KEN DAVIDSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 31031 (ASTERISKS) Thanks, I new it would be obvious once I saw it. GC Msg#:32110 *INK* 08/25/90 05:05:42 From: DONALD YUNISKIS To: ED NISLEY (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 31059 (ASTERISKS) "... learned at IBM..." Ditto. The "+" really gets annoying, though. Use of the "/" as in "R/W" is, unfortunately, not strictly observed by most people who use it (correct... read, write bar). Also have seen "!" as a suffix for negation. Have seen "*" in some instances to denote open collector/emitter buses. Just my $0.02 ... Msg#:32209 *INK* 08/28/90 19:59:57 From: ED NISLEY To: DONALD YUNISKIS (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 32110 (ASTERISKS) That's a new one... * for "open collector" output. Imagine the culture collision between that and * for "inverted" when you've got two folks working on the same project! Msg#:32449 *INK* 09/06/90 01:07:12 From: DONALD YUNISKIS To: ED NISLEY (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 32209 (ASTERISKS) Agreed! That's why I tend to put a legend on my schem's... can't tell the players w/o a program! Also get pretty annoyed with CAD packages that can't handle the funky characters in signal names and/or truncate signal names at some (ALWAYS too short!) length so SYSTEM_DATA_00 and SYSTEM_DATA_01 (etc) all end up being interpreted as SYSTEM_DAT (e.g.) I really wish the clowns that wrote the software (readthat as _ANY_ software) would actually take the time (read as "be given the time") to USE their abortions to actually appreciate the problems REAL users will encounter! Msg#:32492 *INK* 09/07/90 14:38:55 From: ED NISLEY To: DONALD YUNISKIS (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 32449 (ASTERISKS) Ah, but we users are such a screwy bunch that the designers would never _dream_ of using their creation as we do! Being on both sides of the fence, I can argue either way. No matter what limits you put on the program, somebody will chew you out for cramping his style... but if you don't put reasonable bounds on the problem, you'll never get the program out the door. Got a project like that right now, more's the pity... Msg#:32502 *INK* 09/07/90 23:42:38 From: DONALD YUNISKIS To: ED NISLEY (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 32492 (ASTERISKS) Unfortunately, often the code won't even behave properly _given the published examples supplied by the VENDOR_! C'mon, there's no excuse for *that*! And it seems like most vendors/developers get this "attitude problem" when you prove to them that they're wrong... Msg#:31025 *INK* 07/24/90 01:03:24 From: FRANK C. SERGEANT To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: LIGHTNING RODS I noticed your mention of using lightning rods CCInk #16. If you weren't aware of it, I wanted to point out that N. Tesla had some things to say on the subject. I, of course, have no idea whether he is correct or not. To the best of my memory: Apparently he objected to the usual, pointed style and explained why that might be more dangerous than doing without a lightning rod. He preferred a round-style (?). The point was not to attract a lightning bolt, but to bleed off the charge so that you never had a potential difference large enough to allow a strike. -- Frank Msg#:31075 *INK* 07/25/90 00:30:22 From: JOHN MUCHOW To: ED NISLEY (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 29389 (IMAGEWISE/PC APPL. HELP) I finally received my IMWPC board last Friday and spent the weekend scoping out everything on the board. I needed only to invert one signal from the circuit recommendations you gave me. Thanks again. I am bringing 19 lines off the board (approx. 6-8 inches) to a board of mine and I was wondering if you thought I would need to do more than just interleave them with signal grounds. 16 of the line are the video addresses and are high enough frequency for me to want to do all I can to keep those signals intact! Oops! Sorry, it's been a while. This is the modification to latch the address of the first pixel that exceeds the overlay setting for the tracking application I've been working on. Msg#:31149 *INK* 07/26/90 14:15:39 From: ED NISLEY To: JOHN MUCHOW (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 31075 (IMAGEWISE/PC APPL. HELP) Believe it or not, I _did_ remember what you were doing! I'd try using ordinary ribbon cable without fancy interleaved grounds, but after it was all set up and before I tried to do anything useful, I'd put a scope on the address lines and make sure they're doing the right things. You'll also need some control signals, and I'd put those in a separate cable with some ground lines to keep 'em apart. If you've got nice, clean logic levels and no fuzz on the signals, leave it be. But if things look messy, drop back and do it right. The trouble with noise is that things will work just fine for days on end, then blow up in your face right before the Big Demo. Guaranteed! Msg#:31160 *INK* 07/26/90 23:12:17 From: JOHN MUCHOW To: ED NISLEY (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 31149 (IMAGEWISE/PC APPL. HELP) I was thinking that putting my 3 control signals in a separate cable might be a good idea....will do. Thanks! Funny thing about noise....I tried the IMWPC board on my home system to play with it for a while and it started causing random memory parity errors! The only slotxDs it would not zap my system from were the 2 that let the board sit over the memory banks!!! Sighhhhhh..... Msg#:31181 *INK* 07/27/90 17:54:36 From: ED NISLEY To: JOHN MUCHOW (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 31160 (IMAGEWISE/PC APPL. HELP) Now that's a new one. Are those two slots on the end, by any chance? If so, it might be a power distribution problem; you might take a look at the supply voltages on the board. Scope out the bus lines while you're at it to see if there's anything odd going on down there, too. Msg#:31196 *INK* 07/28/90 00:52:21 From: JOHN MUCHOW To: ED NISLEY (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 31181 (IMAGEWISE/PC APPL. HELP) The two slots on the end (farthest from the power supply) are the ones that it works PROPERLY from. If there was a power distribution problem, wouldn't these be the ones that were acting up? I was going to scope out my system when I had the board at home but the steam coming out of my ears kept me from seeing anything! My system at work, where the IMWPC currently resides, will be going in to my dealer for a little yearly TLC (AND a bigger hard drive!), I'll bring the board home then and snoop around (my scope is at work too). Msg#:31294 *INK* 07/30/90 19:02:13 From: ED NISLEY To: JOHN MUCHOW (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 31196 (IMAGEWISE/PC APPL. HELP) Beats me... I think you'll have to do some detective work on this one with the scope. Check out the power and bus signals anyway, just because you never can tell about these things from simple logical deductins, then look at some of the on-board signals. Start with the board in a slot where it works, of course, then move it elsewhere when you're familar with "the way things should be" and can make some useful comparisons. You might want to code up some simple test loops (using DEBUG for Q&D work) to give you some scope test signals. You don't have to tell the board to do anything useful, just a simple command-delay-repeat loop will do fine. Tell us what you find! Msg#:31311 *INK* 07/31/90 00:30:59 From: JOHN MUCHOW To: ED NISLEY (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 31294 (IMAGEWISE/PC APPL. HELP) That's a good idea, running some test loops to provide some known scope signals. After the fact, it seems to be such a common sense idea. I probably wouldn't have thought of it until I wasted a whole weekend trying to follow some other ridiculously complex signals :-} !! It's amazing what watching too much Bugs Bunny as a child does to one's brain! I'll let you know what happens! Msg#:32137 *INK* 08/27/90 00:44:03 From: JOHN MUCHOW To: ED NISLEY (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 31294 (IMAGEWISE/PC APPL. HELP) Finally got around to scoping out my system to locate the cause of those parity errors when using the Imagewise/PC board. The power and ground lines are pretty clean on all slots, but the system clock and data lines show a LOT of bounce (1v p-p after both positive and negative edges) and this doesn't sound typical or healthy! I haven't been able to get the system to recreate those errors again, it works perfectly with the board. I can't think of anything that might have changed since then either. But until the sys does it again (which it shouldn't since the board is installed in my system at work now), I guess I'll just chalk this one up to the Wonders Of Noise! ;-} Msg#:32139 *INK* 08/27/90 00:57:21 From: JOHN MUCHOW To: ED NISLEY (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 31149 (IMAGEWISE/PC APPL. HELP) I just completed the modifications to the Imagewise/PC this past Friday and the unit works perfectly!!! Beautiful, clean signals (the addresses of the first pixel exceeding the set overlay switching value) are coming out without any special interleaved grounds, etc. I built a daughtercard and superglued it (on nylon posts) to the IMWPC board with an IDC connector to connect it to my digital I/O board. I did have two VERY trying days debugging the system until I realized that I had set the address of the I/O board within the 16 address block of the IMWPC! Evertime my software sent signals to the Imagewise board I was reconfiguring the I/O ports! You can NEVER read the docs too often (I had forgotten about the block that the board needed, I was thinking that it only needed the six addresses for its ports)! Speaking of documentation....I wanted to thanks you and anyone else who had a hand in preparing the INK articles, Imagewise/PC manual, and comments for the source code. I knew absolutely nothing about video before starting this project and without all the terrific work that was done documenting the board (and your VERY helpful hints on this BBS), there was no way I could have done this project. Thanks!!! Now, on with the software development!!!!............... Msg#:32211 *INK* 08/28/90 20:01:08 From: ED NISLEY To: JOHN MUCHOW (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 32137 (IMAGEWISE/PC APPL. HELP) What you describe sounds more like "ringing" than "bounce" and comes from transmission line effects. It can cause all manner of interesting effects, because the transients may give you multiple clock transitions... which are sure to screw up the downstream logic! You can sometimes see this on a scope where no problem really exists, though. Make sure the ground lead is only an inch or so long and goes to a ground near the signal's source. That way you don't watch ringing in the ground lead! Msg#:32212 *INK* 08/28/90 20:01:43 From: ED NISLEY To: JOHN MUCHOW (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 32139 (IMAGEWISE/PC APPL. HELP) Thanks for the kind words! Using a block of 16 addresses simplified the logic a bit, but I guess it should have been pointed out in BIG LETTERS that that's what was going on. I always get suspicious when I see a non-binary number of addresses; most likely, the rest of the 2-to-the-whatever addresses are decoded, too. Glad those signals came across cleanly; having verified that it works, you can rest easy... Msg#:31087 *INK* 07/25/90 08:12:37 From: BOB PADDOCK To: ALL Subj: MASTERVOICE Has any one here had any 'hands on' experience with the "Mastervoice: Butler in a Box", as described in Ink #16 page 27? I'm interested in how, or how well, the voice control section works? Msg#:31092 *INK* 07/25/90 09:09:04 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: BOB PADDOCK (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 31087 (MASTERVOICE) I saw it being demoed at CES this past January and the voice recognition system worked surprisingly well. I did a lot of work with the original Lis'ner 1000 that Steve presented a few years ago, so have some feeling for how voice recognition systems work. They had the box set up at the back of the booth, and the person controlling it was at the front of the booth about 10-15 feet away. Even with a good amount of crowd noise, the box picked up her voice almost every time without any inaccuracies. Granted, it is still a single-user, trained, discrete-utterance system, but seems like it would work well in a family situation for home control. They also have a Butler-in-a-Box II that has more I/O and capabilities. I was surprised that they didn't use the ad for it in that issue of INK. They were just introducing it at CES. Msg#:31113 *INK* 07/25/90 19:48:29 From: HITOSHI YOSHIMOTO To: JEFF BACHIOCHI (Rcvd) Subj: FROM THE BENCH: AUG/SEPT 9 The article "Creating a Nonvolatile RAM Module" is VERY timely and helpful for my project. I have a question and a comment on this: Q) When I have a 16/32 bit system, I want to backup 2/4 RAMs together. In such case, do I need to duplicate the entire circuit for each RAM, or can I use just one IC and share one battery, or better yet, a few batteries in parallel ? Does the paralleling batteries cause some problem ? $7.50/IC isn't expensive, but I prefer not to waste. C) On page 66, right column, "POWER-UP/DOWN PROTECTION" part, second paragraph, "The DS1210 requires only 100 mA..." Don't you mean "uA" (read "micro ampere") ? Anyway, parts order is ready, and will be sent as soon as I know how many to order. Thank you. Msg#:31154 *INK* 07/26/90 16:49:01 From: DALE NASSAR To: HITOSHI YOSHIMOTO (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 31113 (FROM THE BENCH: AUG/SEPT 9) I was going to ask that same question about the "100ma" (don't have any lit here) --Dale Msg#:31171 *INK* 07/27/90 11:17:16 From: JEFF BACHIOCHI To: HITOSHI YOSHIMOTO (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 31113 (FROM THE BENCH: AUG/SEPT 9) Hitoshi, Or is it Yoshimoto? Do you write your SIR-NAME first? Please forgive my ignorance. Notice the device has 2 BAT inputs. The device will use the input with the higher voltage, therefore batteries can be replaced one at a time or paralleled for higher capacities on either/both inputs. Multiple RAMs off the same chip select and VCC backup are possible for wider busses. For a larger address space multiple chips selects are necessary, DALLAS has the same type devices (larger package) containing 4/8/16 chip selects (DS1221/1211/1212). As far as the current consumption for the DS1210, it looks like the typesetter has mistaken my 'n' for an 'm'. Please read that as 'nano' Amperes. Thanks and good luck! jeff Msg#:31191 *INK* 07/27/90 20:19:37 From: HITOSHI YOSHIMOTO To: JEFF BACHIOCHI (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 31171 (FROM THE BENCH: AUG/SEPT 9) Thank you for your comment. An article of this kind was just what I needed. And nano ampere makes more of sense. As for name, traditional Japanese would feel uncomfortable being called by the first name, in my case 'Hitoshi,' but I don't. During my first year in US, though, I often did not recognize that I was called if someone called me by first name, simply because I was not accustomed to hear my first name. Between Japanese, the last name is used somewhat like the first name in US: if you know someone well, you call last name without anything; if you need politeness, you add something, Mr., Ms. 'San,' 'Sama,' 'Dono,' depending upon the gender of you and the other person, along with age, job,.... I guess now you got the picture. You can call me by either name without anything. Thank you. Msg#:31262 *INK* 07/30/90 08:55:28 From: JEFF BACHIOCHI To: HITOSHI YOSHIMOTO (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 31191 (FROM THE BENCH: AUG/SEPT 9) Hitoshi, Thanks for the enlightenment! Jeff Msg#:31123 *INK* 07/26/90 02:20:51 From: TOM MORAN To: SCOTT LADD (Rcvd) Subj: PRACTICAL ALGORITHMS COLUMN #1 'this column is about the skill of the programmer.' A skilled programmer should first of all know what is important and what is not. In calculating factorials, the iteration control via recursive subroutine calls is expensive relative to the single multiply, so cutting down the recursive overhead may be important. If speed is very important, consider that a rather small table can hold all the factorials that can fit in double precision floating point. If smallness of code is more important, then an 8 line recursive procedure is better than an 11 line loop. In a case where the work done on each iteration is non-trivial, printing out the names of files in directories and their subdirectories, for instance, the time spent in iteration control is irrelvant and a recursive procedure may be dramatically easier to understand and thus maintain than one with a complex loop. If an unpredictable amount of working storage is needed on each iteration, then automatic stack allocation via recursive procedure call may be much cheaper than explicit calls to a system routine for dynamically allocating chunks of memory. A column which discussed these kinds of considerations could be mind expanding. A column which merely asserts 'I have yet to find an algorithm ...' with examples contradicting the assertion, only demonstrates the limits of its author. I hope Mr. Ladd's column 'Practical Algorithms' will live up to its name and not follow its unfortunate precedent. Msg#:31133 *INK* 07/26/90 09:05:07 From: CURT FRANKLIN To: TOM MORAN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 31123 (PRACTICAL ALGORITHMS COLUMN #1) Thanks for your comments. I've found that algorithms rank with programming languages and microprocessor architectures as a good way of starting religous wars, but it is almost always valuable to hear opinions from all sides. I'll pass your message on to Scott Ladd: we'll see what comments he has, and perhaps use the exchange in the letters section of the next issue. Once again, thanks for taking the time to write in. Curt Franklin Msg#:31134 *INK* 07/26/90 09:09:40 From: DONALD YUNISKIS To: TOM MORAN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 31123 (PRACTICAL ALGORITHMS COLUMN #1) Greetings! (Flame ON!) Admittedly, I don't have access to the article in question. However, the gist of this message seems a bit harsh, yet, I'll lay odds that the poster (Mr. Moran) is probably pretty close to the truth in his complaints. One reason I _don't_ subscribe to any computer magazines is the incredibly poor quality of information represented therein. Seems like most writers "talk a good line" but there is little substance in their message. In general, I'll agree with Mr. Moran's comments regarding recursive routines. I'll also go a step further and suggest that people should really concentrate on writing GOOD CODE and writing MAINTAINABLE CODE. If you want speed, compactnes, etc. buy a good optimizing compiler and/or wait 2 years (well, maybe three) for a 2X hardware speed increase. Keep in mind that hardware costs (etc.) are insignificant in the context of software development and maintenance costs (figure upwards of $100K per man year -- and rule-of-thumb maintenance costs = development costs) (Flame OFF!) :-) Msg#:31141 *INK* 07/26/90 10:51:19 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: DONALD YUNISKIS (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 31134 (PRACTICAL ALGORITHMS COLUMN #1) Seems to me like it might be a good idea if you'd at least look at the magazine and the article in question before slamming both the author and the magazine in general. If computer magazines have "little substance," why not do some writing and correct the situation? Msg#:31159 *INK* 07/26/90 22:29:06 From: STEVE SAMPSON To: DONALD YUNISKIS (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 31134 (PRACTICAL ALGORITHMS COLUMN #1) Well, you "talk a good line", but there's little substance. Not subscribing is one thing, but not even reading is another. While I may want everything perfect, I readily accept even the bad. Learning and experimenting, and questioning "why?". I like the staff and authors at CC INK because they produce a good and interesting magazine. So I pitch in a meager subscription that may help with the mailing costs (I doubt it). By not subscribing to magazines for the reasons you state is rather extreme. Do the neibors gang up on you when you don't edge the lawn properly? Or do they accept your limitations. Msg#:32108 *INK* 08/25/90 03:09:57 From: DONALD YUNISKIS To: KEN DAVIDSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 31141 (PRACTICAL ALGORITHMS COLUMN #1) Unfortunately, I've wasted too much time "looking at" magazines and articles... I've yet to find one that is (consistently) interesting and/or informative. My areas of interest tend to be a bit more specialized than "run-of-the-mill computing": marine navigation systems, autopilots, process control equipment, graphic engines, speech synthesis, precision data acquisition systems, real time control, etc. I tend _NOT_ to work in a "desktop" environment (i.e. PC's, UNIX boxes, etc.). I haven't worked on a single instruction thread project in over 10 years (yuck! hard to believe I'm getting _THAT_ old!) and have had to develop multitasking OS's for too many of my projects... Hardware cost is usually a concern and, thus, many solutions have to be tailored to the hardware as it evolves (how would YOU detect 20 micro litres of blood in a test tube -- reliably?). As far as "writing" is concerned, the same issues that make magazines inappropriate for me as a subscriber would make the issues I would/could write about inappropriate for most subscribers. (Catch-22). And, of course, there's the issue of getting _INTO_ print... Msg#:32161 *INK* 08/27/90 10:35:28 From: STEVE CIARCIA To: DONALD YUNISKIS (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 32108 (PRACTICAL ALGORITHMS COLUMN #1) Most, perhaps all, of the subjects you mentioned are appropriate for a computer application journal like CC INK. All we need is authors to write about those subjects. --Steve Msg#:32450 *INK* 09/06/90 01:09:44 From: DONALD YUNISKIS To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 32161 (PRACTICAL ALGORITHMS COLUMN #1) What are your terms/conditions? Give me a ring-a-ling... (P.S. I notice they've finally finished The Vernon International Airport! ;-> ) Msg#:31146 *INK* 07/26/90 13:04:38 From: RICK BERUBE To: ED NISLEY (Rcvd) Subj: FIRMWARE FURNACE Hi Ed, I have followed your Firmware Furnace articles since I've been getting CCI and have noticed that you usually use any number of macros within your code. I can see where this really saves on readability and especially page space, but I was wondering if you could translate? ;-) Is there a file somewhere that I can download which conatins the expanded code for each macro? Or maybe just an explaintion of each macro, its inputs and outputs, etc. Regarding your latest efforts working in the Firmware Furnace (maybe you should change the title of the column to the "ICE BOX", AT least during the summers) I found the article very interesting but couldn't help but wonder if a key autorepeat would not be possible for all the keys of the 4x4 keypad? Rick Berube ;-{)} Msg#:31152 *INK* 07/26/90 14:20:35 From: ED NISLEY To: RICK BERUBE (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 31146 (FIRMWARE FURNACE) Unless I've screwed up, the downloadable files for each article contain the macro files needed for the assembly. They're mostly two- or three-liners with a few comments, so I don't think you'll have any trouble figuring out what they do. I'm not a big fan of hideously complex macros with lots of parameters; inevitably, you blow a register along the way and never notice what happened. If I weren't using shift keys, there'd be no trouble making all the keys repeat. The catch is that you can't repeat a key until you know what the shift state is, and you can't read the shift state until the keyboard control chip reads the column with the shift keys. Thus, if the key isn't in the shift column, it can't repeat because you don't know what value to repeat! Make sense? Msg#:31169 *INK* 07/27/90 09:04:57 From: RICK BERUBE To: ED NISLEY (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 31152 (FIRMWARE FURNACE) I'm sure you haven't screwed up Ed. I have never downloaded any of your code. Although I've followed your column I haven't found the time yet to try and apply any of it (Wendy and I are expecting our first child so that pushes technology down low on the priority queue if you know what I mean). So you probably have not screwed up, more like I looked in area 16 and didn't see the source! As for the autorepeating of keys, I think I follow. What you are saying is that the scanning chip (74C922) is not capable of seeing more than one active key at a time and reporting this condition. Wouldn't it have been easier to have tied the shift keys to the '240 and read their state at the same time you got the key pad code from the 74C922? This way you could just get the '922 code check the shift keys and interprete the user's intent in this manner. Have I missed something? Thanks for getting back to so quickly, Rick ;-{)} Msg#:32342 *INK* 09/01/90 17:24:08 From: DAVE EWEN To: ED NISLEY (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 31152 (FIRMWARE FURNACE) Say Ed, I've been thinking about an add-on for your "furnace watcher." Do you think Steve could sight one of his laser diodes through those little holes in the turning disc of an electric meter? The distortion from the glass enclosure is the main problem, I think. Msg#:32433 *INK* 09/05/90 17:13:30 From: ED NISLEY To: DAVE EWEN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 32342 (FIRMWARE FURNACE) You want to figure out how much juice you're using, right? The power company would probably have a conniption when the meter reader found this, ah, widget, glued on their meter bottle. They don't react kindly to things that look like "meter unwinders" (for well and good reason!). Let alone the fact that you've have to build a rather delicate optical gadget to operate _outdoors_ in an unprotected location... Probably not feasible... but it's certainly safer than trying to fit a few current transformers and voltage taps into your main breaker panel! Msg#:32446 *INK* 09/05/90 23:54:39 From: DAVE EWEN To: ED NISLEY (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 32433 (FIRMWARE FURNACE) Yes, the difficulty would be to make it innocent looking, and definitely not touching the meter... Msg#:32452 *INK* 09/06/90 01:38:42 From: DONALD YUNISKIS To: DAVE EWEN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 32342 (FIRMWARE FURNACE) Actually, this is a typical (uninspired) solution used by people like GE, etc. in "computerizing" Watt-Hour meters. Rather than replace the motor (which is what the disk spinner is called) with something (gasp!) electronic, they simply add on a gizmo that watches the disk spin. A notable limitation of such an approach is that it can not accurately track short term peak demands (unless, of course, you've got one s-load of holes in the disk!) BTW, you'd be amazed at some of the characteristics of those mechanical meters (cost, MTBF, accuracy, etc.) Truly remarkable! Msg#:32521 *INK* 09/08/90 23:48:22 From: DAVE EWEN To: DONALD YUNISKIS (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 32452 (FIRMWARE FURNACE) Well, your sample rate would be twice per revolution, which would be rapid enough for most monitoring purposes, I would think. I'll bet they looked into going the "electronic route" before sticking with the mechanical unit, but discarded the idea for very valid reasons... co$t being #1... Msg#:32570 *INK* 09/11/90 09:24:43 From: DONALD YUNISKIS To: DAVE EWEN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 32521 (FIRMWARE FURNACE) Actually, you can perforate the disc many times to achieve higher "resolution". As for sticking with old technology... I sincerely doubt that it was for reasons of cost. Rather, it was probably a case of inertia (primarily psychological -- yet obviously there are historical concerns at work... e.g. a boat-load of data compiled from past experiences with the motor...) and general "conservative" thinking... Msg#:31153 *INK* 07/26/90 14:41:42 From: GARY LINWOOD To: ALL Subj: PYROELECTRIC SENSORS I am trying to find the names and phone numbers of manufacturers of pyroelectric sensors. I have info from Hamamatsu & Amperex. Can anyone help? I need a 120 foot range sensor for traffic sensing at lights. Thanks. Msg#:31166 *INK* 07/27/90 03:57:06 From: GARY MELANDER To: ALL USERS Subj: LPT2, IBM PCAT cAN ANYONE OUT THERE TELL ME WHICH 'DATA' LINES ARE TO BE READ ON A MODIFIED PARALLEL PORT? I'VE READ SO MUCH ABOUT THIS I SHOULD HAVE FIGURED IT OUT BY NOW. WHEN I MAKE THE 'FIX' TO THE PORTS I.C.'S ( AS DESCRIBED IN SEPT. '88 BYTE), I CAN READ ALL 8 BITS (DO..D7) BUT CAN'T TRANSMIT ANYTHING. WITHOUT THE FIX, I CAN ONLY READ THE BITS. AM I MISSING SOMETHING SIMPLE HERE? OR DO THE BITS INTENDED FOR READING COME OFF THE OTHER CONTROL SIGNALS... A NICE, BUFFERED PARALELL I/O WOULD BE SOOO HANDY FOR DEVELOPMENT WORK, BUT NOW, I'M USING A DS5000 FOR ALL DATA GENERATION. CODING IS TOO MUCH EXTRA WORK IF I COULD JUST DUMP IT OUT OF THE A.T. Msg#:31184 *INK* 07/27/90 17:56:00 From: ED NISLEY To: GARY MELANDER (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 31166 (LPT2, IBM PCAT) We'll hear your palm hit your forhead all the way from where you're sitting right now... Once you've made the fix, you have control over the data output buffer chip's Output Enable line. When that line is LOW (as it was before you made the fix) the buffer is ENABLED and the chip drives data from the PC to whatever is connected to the port. When that line is HIGH (as it will be when you write the appropriate value to the control port bit) the buffer is DISABLED and whatever is connected to the port can drive data without collision. So you need to flip the bit LOW to write data from the PC to your device and HIGH to read data from your device to the PC. It's your responsibility to make sure your device is NOT driving data EXCEPT when the PC's buffer is disabled. In either case, you read data back from the data port. It's the same one you write data to, but the value you get depends on whether you're driving data from the PC or reading whatever comes back. Make sense? Msg#:31199 *INK* 07/28/90 04:15:59 From: GARY MELANDER To: ED NISLEY (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 31184 (LPT2, IBM PCAT) THANKS, ED. tHAT PART OF IT IS BEGINNING TO MAKE SENSE...BUT STILL SOME MYSTERIES ABOUT THIS PORT CHANGE. I DOWNLOADED THE DEBUG31.COM FILE BECAUSE MAYBE I WAS'NT CORRECTLY WRITING OR READING THE PORT. THE DEBUG31 DID GIVE ME HARDWARE ERRORS WITH AND WITHOUT THE FIX. MY CARD IS ONE OF THOSE MULTIEVERYTHING CARDS BY A COMPANY I COULDN'T HOPE TO PRONOUNCE THE NAME OF...BUT THE CHIPS ALL APPEA TO BE AS DESCRIBED WITH MINOR PIN SWAPPING FROM THE DIAGRAM. ANOTHER BOARD IS A SINGLE PORT CARD WITH AN EVEN CLOSER RESEMBLENCE TO THE SCHEMATIC(S) I HAVE. BOTH GENERATE ERRORS. ITS AS IF I NEED TO INVERT THAT ENABLE OR SOMETHING. TO READ FROM THE PORT, I MUST PLACE THE PIN IN A DEAD SHORT TO GROUND. EVEN A 100 OHM RESISTER IS TOO BIG. WITHOUT THE FIX IN BOTH CASES, I CAN LIGHT AN LED FROM THE CABLE END. HAVE YOU SEEN THIS BEFORE?MAYBE THERE IS A $50.00 PORT OUT THERE THAT WILL WORK THE WAY THE DEBUG31 IS WRITTEN...MODIFIED OR MANUFACTURED. Msg#:31324 *INK* 07/31/90 14:10:06 From: MARK EPSTEIN To: ED NISLEY (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 31184 (LPT2, IBM PCAT) If the port is (was) a standard LPT port, the bit to which you refer should be D5 (the sixth least significant bit) of the control port. The address of the control port is the base address (03BC, 0378, or 0278, typically) + 2. This control port normally controls strobe, error, auto fd xt, init, and slct signals that go to the printer. As was recommended, you oughtn't try to drive signals from your device into the PC and signals out of the PC at the same time, so a worthwhile thing to do would be to use one of the other control signals located on the 25-pin connector and controlled by the same control port, to turn the output enable of your device on or off. (I'd use an 74LS240.) Msg#:31253 *INK* 07/30/90 02:15:02 From: JOHN BUTROVICH To: SYSOP (Rcvd) Subj: DCT'S Is source code for Chris Ciarcia's DCT image compress in August/Spetembers issue of INK available online ? Thanks. Msg#:31272 *INK* 07/30/90 09:24:05 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: JOHN BUTROVICH (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 31253 (DCT'S) All the code for that article was listed in the article and, since it was so short, won't be posted on-line. Since there wasn't an editor's note included in the text of the article stating that it would be on-line, it won't be. Chris's article was a theory article which presented a few short algorithms. It wasn't talking about finished, off-the-shelf software. Msg#:31333 *INK* 07/31/90 22:51:26 From: GARY MELANDER To: ED NISLEY (Rcvd) Subj: TELEPHONE POWER So do you wizards know any tricks regarding Teclo line-powered circuitry? I have a requirement for interfacing a DTMF signalling board to a phone line but can't use house or low-voltage supplies. I also have to maintain good balance and on-hook resistance, since this is an "in-line" accessory. I can't get to the hook switch which would solve everything. This circuit will jump into an active state when it detects off-hook at a remote telephone for about 4 seconds, and then drop off line. The problem is, when the phone goes off-hook, it pulls so much current that there's less than a few milliamps left to play with. Relays are out of the question. Also, I wanted to employ a solid state switch to control the phone but a PNP anything in the positive lead has problems turning off. It seems worse with FET's. I'm only mirroring the problem when I try to electronically open the Ring lead, But this way, I only need to stand on my head 50% of the time. FRUSTRATED and frequently SHOCKED, Gary Melander....Lewisville, Texas. greg...................XX.XX.XXX.-....2400 N81N .................... Msg#:31398 *INK* 08/02/90 23:50:44 From: MARK GIVINS To: STEVE CARCIA Subj: LIGHT ISSUE MR. CARCIA,I JUST FINISHED READING THE LASER ISSUE AND WAS WONDERING IF THE NEW LASER DIODES THAT ARE VISIBLE CAN BE USED IN PLACE OF THE HELIMUN-NEON TYPES. I AM INTRESTED IN USING THEM FOR INTEFERNCE EXPERIMENTS FOR PHYSICS CLASS. I WOULD LIKE TO USE THIS TYPE BECAUSE THEY ARE SO SMALL. SO FAR NO ONE HAS BEEN ABLE TO ANSWER MY QUESTION. I AM ABOUT TO ORDER ONE. THANK YOU, MARK S Msg#:31424 *INK* 08/03/90 18:34:17 From: ED NISLEY To: MARK GIVINS (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 31398 (LIGHT ISSUE) I think the big problem with laser diodes is that they're not particularly well collimated; you'd need a bit of optics to get a good beam out of them. The other gotcha is that they're not particularly efficient, either, so you wind up with this big hulking power supply and heatsink. When all is said and done, those $100 surplus He-Ne lasers look pretty attractive... Msg#:31458 *INK* 08/04/90 13:53:12 From: MIKE SCHELIGA To: ED NISLEY (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 31424 (LIGHT ISSUE) As far as the currently popular visible laser diodes that are out right now, the Toshiba TOLD-9200. It's a 3mW unit and has a bad astigmatism that is not easily reshapped to a round profile. In the very near future you will see the 9201 a higher output (5mW) version of the 9200, and then the 9211 which is an "index guided" 5mW visible laser diode that will be much easier to collomate and has very little astigmatism in comparison to the 9200. Also remember that these are 670nm devises and a Helium-Neon (red) outputs at 633nm. This means that a TOLD 9200 after collomation looks about as bright as a .8mW HeNe. There are 633nm laser diodes that should hit the market in about a year or so. Mike Scheliga Meredith Instruments Glendale, AZ Msg#:31515 *INK* 08/06/90 12:21:30 From: STEVE CIARCIA To: MARK GIVINS (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 31398 (LIGHT ISSUE) As Mike said, visible diode lasers are pretty new and there will be improvements. Can you use them instead of a gas laser? Of course, provided you want to spend $100-200 each right now. Sharp has a good assortment of them too. --Steve Msg#:31526 *INK* 08/06/90 18:48:05 From: ED NISLEY To: MIKE SCHELIGA (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 31458 (LIGHT ISSUE) Sounds good to me. I bet Steve buys a few, just to have them around... right, Steve? Msg#:31550 *INK* 08/07/90 02:07:45 From: DALE NASSAR To: MARK GIVINS (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 31398 (LIGHT ISSUE) For bright interference demos get the He-Ne laser--a cheap one typically has a coherence length of several centimeters (this is the maximum path difference that the split beams can have and still show fringes) and there is no hassle with external optics. I have an older 780nm (779.5nm to 780.5nm) wavelength (IR) laser diode and its coherence length is under 0.5mm! Coherence length (CL) can be calculated with the formula: CL= (L*L)/(2*dL); where L is the nominal wavelength and dL is the spread of emitted wavelengths. I also have the TOLD-9200 670nm visible laser diode from Meredith Inst. and the spec sheet states a wavelength range of 670nm to 680nm--this works out to a CL of only 0.02 mm. HOWEVER, I suspect that the actual spread is much smaller (you listening Mike?), which would mean a larger CL--the spec (all I have) is brief and may very well be referring to a nominal range for many units of the same model as opposed to a spread (dL) of a single device--I'm guessing. If I can't get specific data I'll probably do some simple interferomertic tests and find out myself. Anyway, for the visible diode lasers, I would wait for the inevitable decrease in price and wavelength. --Dale Msg#:31662 *INK* 08/09/90 21:49:08 From: MIKE SCHELIGA To: DALE NASSAR (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 31550 (LIGHT ISSUE) Yes the prices on the TOLD-9200 have already dropped, we now sell them for $75 in our soon to be mailed catalog. Like I said the TOLD-9211 will be much better, and about the same pricing. It will also be about 10 times as static sensitive as the 9200....! Mike Scheliga Meredith Instruments Msg#:31678 *INK* 08/10/90 14:23:28 From: STEVE CIARCIA To: MIKE SCHELIGA (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 31662 (LIGHT ISSUE) Mike, please keep me informed on the diodes. I have a few more applications which might result in articles. --Steve Msg#:31696 *INK* 08/11/90 03:57:30 From: DALE NASSAR To: MIKE SCHELIGA (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 31662 (LIGHT ISSUE) Mike, I have the Toshiba constant current driver that MI sells as the driver for the TOLD-9200, but would also like a driver that monitors the photodiode--do you sell one? I would also like one for the new laser diode you will be selling. Thanks --Dale Msg#:31749 *INK* 08/12/90 14:19:11 From: MIKE SCHELIGA To: DALE NASSAR (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 31696 (LIGHT ISSUE) We are having one designed for us right now, not sure when it will be ready for sale. We are also working on a driver with modulation inputs. Right now we have a small module that's about 2 or 2 1/2 inches long and about 1 inch in dia. that includes a TOLD-9200 a collomator lens and a driver that runs off of 3.9 - 5.0 volts DC. We are selling these for $150, typical output is about 0.7 mW. Our new catalog should be out in 2-3 weeks. Mike Scheliga Meredith Instruments Msg#:31399 *INK* 08/03/90 01:19:34 From: SCOTT LADD To: DONALD YUNISKIS (Rcvd) Subj: EFFICIENT PROGRAMMING Hmmmm... I've always been one for a good fight... The best optimizer is the one between your ears; no optimizing compiler on Earth is going to make a poor algorithm a good one, or make a badly-designed program fast. Simply put, the goal of an optimizer is to produce the fastest possible program from the instructions given in the program source. It's like builing a house -- no matter how good of a carpenter you are, if you start with rotten wood you get a rotten house! Any programmer who writes inefficient code, and expects the optimizer to make up for it is a very poor programmer, in my book. Furthermore, efficient code does not preclude maintable and readable code. I've been programming since the early seventies; I'm always hearing from people who claim that it doesn't matter how efficient programs are, so long as technology keeps producing faster machines. Why worry about the speed of your programs -- just buy a faster computer! That line of reasoning is simply bogus. I write my programs to be as fast and efficient as possible for the platform they are on within the bounds of maintainability and the audeince which will be working with the program. That way, when the faster machine comes along, my programs will run even faster. Wasting perfrmance is just that -- waste. . Msg#:31425 *INK* 08/03/90 18:34:52 From: ED NISLEY To: SCOTT LADD (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 31399 (EFFICIENT PROGRAMMING) Hear, hear! Frankly, I've had enough bad experiences with optimizers breaking working code that I keep 'em turned off. If it ain't fast enough, boosting it by 15% isn't going to do diddly for you... and if it's fast enough, it's fast enough. It would be nice to have a project where you could wait for a few years for a faster machine to come out and solve all your problems... but I've never run into anybody who'd find that an acceptable solution! Msg#:32107 *INK* 08/25/90 02:50:35 From: DONALD YUNISKIS To: ED NISLEY (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 31425 (EFFICIENT PROGRAMMING) Apparently, you've been using some pretty poor products (tho' that's a subject for an entirely new thread). Not only dowell constructed optimizers (and tools in general) enhance maintainability and keep the effort focused on "problem solving", but they also provide added flexibility. Optimizers can also be configured to produce "small" text images (not just "fast"). As such, rebuilding binaries can be a "cheap and dirty" method of shrinking a text image to a more manageable size (which usually only becomes evident as you progress deeper into a project -- hardly conducive to rewriting from scratch). As for optimizers "breaking working code"... did it _REALLY_ work or did it "cheat" and rely on some implementation dependant features? Or, it may, in fact, actually be a legitimate bug in the optimizer (or actually the target silicon... you'd be surprised how many CPU's have significant bugs in their implementations!). I don't claim that commercial software is "flawless"; in fact, a full 30% of my time is spent tracking down, documenting and working around bugs in purchased software (pretty depressing when you consider the fact that this software is intended for "software developers" to "enhance development efforts"!! My point is relatively simple: focus on the problem to be solved. Don't wste time trying to tweek 10% out of an algorithm. Wait for the hardware to speed up or optimizers to improve/exist. That _DOESN'T_ give you license to be sloppy with your algorithms; rather, be judicious in your use of time. It really IS true that hardware gets cheaper and faster each year... at an _alarming_ rate! Perhaps my involvement with machines as a vocation -- as well as an avocation -- provides me with a different viewpoint... I can't afford time to "tinker"... Msg#:32109 *INK* 08/25/90 03:27:28 From: DONALD YUNISKIS To: SCOTT LADD Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 31399 (EFFICIENT PROGRAMMING) Mr. Ladd, Chill out! "Wasting performance is just that -- waste". YES! But, you've missed the point... wasting TIME (development) is just that -- NO PRODUCT TO MARKET!!! I don't espouse ignorance, slovenly work ethics or poor workmanship... I _DESPISE_ inefficiency, bugs, incompetence, etc. The trick is to find an effective compromise... too often, "hackers" like to pat themselves on the back for being "clever"... but they never get the JOB done! I've watched my software projects go from the 40KB size to the 500KB size ON THE SAME PLATFORM / ENVIRONMENT. Yet, the calendar time alotted has diminished (market demands). To use your analogy, you can spend too much time looking for wood that isn't rotten... Msg#:32208 *INK* 08/28/90 19:59:34 From: ED NISLEY To: DONALD YUNISKIS (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 32107 (EFFICIENT PROGRAMMING) Actually, we're probably in violent agreement... I'd had problems with Microsoft C 5.1; I finally had to examine the code coming out of the optimizer to discover what was broken... it optimized perfectly good code into mush. Ditto with the Avocet C compiler; having had previous experience with MSC, I knew where to look for the problems. And, yes, I shoot myself in the foot with code that wouldn't optimize correctly; it took a while to figure out where the aliasing occurred. Microsoft had so much trouble with us chumps that the 6.00 optimizer is less "aggressive" (as they put it) and tends to not break quite so much code. But I'll let you explain to Steve why he's got to wait for, say, two years to get a program working the way we want it. I bet it's the same way all over... Msg#:32451 *INK* 09/06/90 01:24:22 From: DONALD YUNISKIS To: ED NISLEY (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 32208 (EFFICIENT PROGRAMMING) First things first... don't use anything with the "M" word... talk about trash... 2500AD's products are reasonable (tho' not optimized) in price performance and MOST OF ALL ... SUPPORT! Congrats to Ray for standing behind his work! National had a real charmer with their 320xx series compilers... tremendous optimizers! I found most of the optimizer's output to be on a par with hand coded routines... withOUT the time required to code by hand! Unfortunately, National is notoriously inept/unfortunate/etc. when it comes to marketing processors... better stick to linears, NSC! Too bad, the 320xx was one of the few GOOD products in the processor arena (given time, INTEL may get to where the 320xx was years ago!) One notable comment re: the "two years" syndrome... crank up the clock and spend a few extra bucks on hardware to make the software easier. Then, let technological advances reduce the cost of your hardware and increase the performance of your software. I'm working on a 64180 based product right now and have found that my productivity increase due to the use of HLL has allowed me to generate as much "code" (i.e. rom image) in the last month as in the 6 preceding. Granted, it's not as efficient as assy but we're looking for long term savings on development of related products as well as product maintenance ('course the portability issues don't hurt!) As such, I'll probably have a code image in the 190K region (I'm at 80, now) in another month or so! AND, it won't be a "one-of-a-kind" product (i.e. reusable software). Msg#:32493 *INK* 09/07/90 14:39:32 From: ED NISLEY To: DONALD YUNISKIS (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 32451 (EFFICIENT PROGRAMMING) Ah, but when the compiler hands you a 35K 8031 program to fit in your 32K ROM, you've got _big_ problems. That's the crux of the issue: for small problems, think small; for big problems, get a real computer! But, somehow, we make it work, right? Msg#:32503 *INK* 09/07/90 23:45:11 From: DONALD YUNISKIS To: ED NISLEY (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 32493 (EFFICIENT PROGRAMMING) I don't advocate being "sloppy"... but, getting 10 lbs in a 5 lb bag is what makes it engineering instead of "programming"... learning when to make which tradeoffs... As for "somehow making it work"... well, so far... ]:-> Msg#:32619 *INK* 09/13/90 11:39:14 From: ED NISLEY To: DONALD YUNISKIS (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 32503 (EFFICIENT PROGRAMMING) The best definition of an engineer I've seen is that he's (we're typically male, more's the pity) someone who can design a five-dollar product with two bucks of stuff. That's $5 selling price... meaning everybody else thinks it's worth more than it cost to build. Anybody can build a five-dollar product with five bucks of stuff... it's getting more out of less that makes it all worthwhile. Msg#:32627 *INK* 09/13/90 13:00:00 From: DONALD YUNISKIS To: ED NISLEY (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 32619 (EFFICIENT PROGRAMMING) Actually, DM+DL must be $2... there's a difference! ;-) Msg#:31441 *INK* 08/04/90 05:09:33 From: EDWARD KONIG To: KEN DAVIDSON (Rcvd) Subj: MASTERVOICE I am (or was) planning a product which, thanks to your reply to Bob Paddock, sounds very much like MASTERVOICE or Butler-in-a-Box. Could you direct me to some more information, such as the manufacturer, (name & addr / phone), and some idea of the products offered and the pricing. Do you know of other similar products currently available or planned? Can I assume "CES" stands for "Consumer Electronics Show"? Msg#:31504 *INK* 08/06/90 10:51:40 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: EDWARD KONIG (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 31441 (MASTERVOICE) Mastervoice has an ad in the latest issue of Circuid Cellar INK. They can be reached at (213) 594-6581. It would be helpful if you could mention that you heard about them through Circuit Cellar. They don't list an address with the ad. They're the only ones that I know of with a voice-controlled home control system on the market. Others use keypads, terminals, and touch screens, but not voice. And, yes, CES is Consumer Electronics Show. Msg#:31555 *INK* 08/07/90 03:50:27 From: GARY MELANDER To: C.C.I. STAFF Subj: R/E MAGAZINE. Awwww, Quit picking on that rag.... Don't you know there current project is a ROBOT THAT MOWS THE LAWN?! He. He. He. Msg#:31564 *INK* 08/07/90 09:31:58 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: GARY MELANDER (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 31555 (R/E MAGAZINE.) Hell, I was sticking up for them. It was someone else who was ragging on them... Msg#:31565 *INK* 08/07/90 09:43:37 From: STEVE SAMPSON To: KEN DAVIDSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 31564 (R/E MAGAZINE.) The magazine just went to a new size. smaller. But you're right, the purpose is to give enjoyment to the beginner and hobbyist. It's supposed to be light. Some of the stuff is actually too technical for the readership. I always learn something in every schematic I look at, and the authors generally do pretty good. The editors then screw up everything including the schematics. You have to wait 3 months before building anything and wait for the enevitable schematic corrections. Msg#:31647 *INK* 08/09/90 17:57:38 From: GARY MELANDER To: KEN DAVIDSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 31564 (R/E MAGAZINE.) My only complaints are the Subject of the projects, although a lawn-mowing robot might be "cool", that's what I got MARRIED for... ...And although many parts are Radio-Shack stock items, There always seems to be a need for a machine-shop to make those "hard-to-find items... Msg#:31569 *INK* 08/07/90 12:20:55 From: EVAN HOLLANDER To: JEFF BACHIOCHI (Rcvd) Subj: INTEL 8751 Steve, I have one of your serial eprom programmers and it works very well. I would like to program 8751 and or 87C51's on it. Is it possible and if so how. Thanks, Evan Msg#:31597 *INK* 08/08/90 10:01:43 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: EVAN HOLLANDER (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 31569 (INTEL 8751) Issue #9 of Circuit Cellar INK has a very explicit article on how to make an adapter that allows you to program 8751s on a SEP. There are also a few EPROM changes that must be made. Msg#:31583 *INK* 08/08/90 01:06:41 From: STEVE BUNCH To: DALE NASSAR (Rcvd) Subj: COMPUTER GENERATED HOLOGRAMS Dale, (prepared ofline) Well, I haven't had much time to experiment lately, but finally got a little bit done. It was fun reading the letters in the latest Circuit Cellar. I was spurred on to do some experiments by the magazine arriving... I've begun plotting my holograms with an offset so that the real image is formed just beyond the boundaries of the undiffracted light that feeds straight thru. I'm getting really beautiful, bright images. Much of the problem I'd been having was because I was spreading the laser beam to cover the entire hologram (masked), and so the undiffracted light washed out the actual image pretty badly. Now, the image is outside the red murky feedthrough, and you can really see it well. I've essentially given up playing with gray-scale holograms. They were slower to plot, didn't generally form a very bright image, and required more accurate film exposure. (I expose pictures of the screen by a simple rule: meter the screen when it's fully white. Add two stops for "normal" negatives [because the light meter is telling you what to expose to get an 18% gray exposed correctly, not white], three stops for a more solid black when doing fresnel holograms. Works great.) I tried playing with the threshold value used to select between a black and a white pixel. I didn't really expect it to work well, but it was OK. Not as good as using 0, especially if you go very far from 0, but it wasn't as sensitive as I thought it might be to this parameter. I have only tried this for the non-offset holograms, so more difference might be visible with a clearer image. I have bought the chemicals to try chemically bleaching the film to see if the diffraction efficiency goes up. I'm looking for an OK-quality cheap three-beam balance right now. (Does anyone know of a source for one for under $100?) Will let you know if this works any better. Have continued using TMAX film, mainly because it's so easy to mix the liquid developer, and because the local darkroom store quit stocking D-19 and D-11. I did some improvements to my program that basically just mimics the one in your article. These are basically similar improvements to the ones that were in the letter from Richard Brown. Here's the actual inner loop code (there's more code elsewhere that takes up some significant time, but this is the kernel of it): case kCircle:/* speeded up version for easy cases */ case kSpiral: case kCOSFlower: for (i = 0; i < HP_NUM; i++) { px = xlookup [i] + offsetx; py = ylookup [i] + offsety; v = ((double) ((px - x)*(px - x)+(py - y)*(py - y)+(pz_squared))); d = (v / d + d) * 0.5;/* one iteration of Newton-Raphson for sqrt */ phase = d / l; /* wave number */ phase = phase - (long)phase; /* scale [0.0 - 1.0) */ s = s + SIN_LOOKUP(phase); } break; If anyone is interested, I can download the code sometime. It's pretty ugly, I'm embarassed to admit, but it could save someone a few hours of typing. There is still a little unnecessary work there (e.g., the addition of the offsets is unnecessary, but convenient for other reasons). The SIN_LOOKUP macro multiples its argument by the number of elements in a pre-computed sin table, integerizes it, and indexes the table with it. With a 2k table, the error is barely visible to the eye - maybe 1% or so pixel value error in the final hologram. The xlookup and ylookup arrays contain the x,y values for the points of light. Only one iteration of Newton-Raphson is required to converge an initial estimate for 'd' to 14-15 digits of precision (usually exact to 15 places, occasionally off by a tad in the last place). The initial 'd' is simply the initial 'pz' value, and I don't bother to reinitialize it after each 'sqrt' computation because it's if anything closer. NOW, the interesting part is that doing all the above to the program speeded it up by a factor of only two or so above the performance when there were two 'sin's, a 'cos', and a 'sqrt' in the loop. This had me really worried that Msg#:32365 *INK* 09/02/90 15:39:29 From: STEVE BUNCH To: STEVE BUNCH (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 31583 (COMPUTER GENERATED HOLOGRAMS) (This is a lost portion of the message it's a reply to - Steve) NOW, the interesting part is that doing all the above to the program speeded it up by a factor of only two or so above the performance when there were two 'sin's, a 'cos', and a 'sqrt' in the loop. This had me really worried that I'd done something gravely silly for a while. It turns out that my Mac uses the Motorola 68882 floating point chip. Think C (with appropriate guidance) generates the 68882 instructions inline, and the 68882 just plain does those functions FAST! I was very impressed. I had also considered the approach Richard Brown suggested of precomputing the wavefront from one point and adding them in, but didn't have enough memory for the entire table. (I was trying to figure out how to do it that way for the Connection Machine, but it doesn't have much memory per CPU.) Richard's simple observation that all the quadrants are identical is clearly true, and taking that into account, my Mac has enough memory to do it. Basically, that turns the above loop into a simple floating point or scaled integer summation, which should be materially faster. I'll probably try that now. Have tried some experiments with directly generating holograms by evaluating the Fourier transforms of line segments, as per the Am. J. Phys. article I referenced earlier. The original article used a rectangular "pixel" plotted on a pen plotter. Inside each of these pixels, a black mark was drawn. The width of the black mark determined the amount of light that got through, and was determined by the amplitude of the Fourier function at that point. The mark's vertical position was determined by the phase. Since I didn't want to give up so many screen pixels, I've tried plotting the amplitude only, at each screen pixel location. This figure looks superficially like the one in the article, so the arithmetic is apparently right, but I haven't produced an image yet. Will play some more as I get time. Well, thanks again for the article. I bought the reprint, which includes a lot more explanation and detail, and I'd like to recommend it to anyone who liked the article. (unsolicited testimonial) Steve Msg#:31586 *INK* 08/08/90 02:43:45 From: BRAD NOTLAW To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: CCI SOFTWARE Hi Ken-- I noticed on page 77 of the current CCI a Micromint Ad that refers to the new Threaded Programmable Controller Language. Sounds intriguing..what is it?? Also, in the Ad on page 17 it says that the BASIKIT is included with every RTC52 AND BCC52 system, both of which I have. Do I have to shell out the full $150, or is there some kind of updgrade deal for us pre-BASIKIT buyers? Thanks, Brad Msg#:31595 *INK* 08/08/90 09:35:09 From: STEVE CIARCIA To: BRAD NOTLAW (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 31586 (CCI SOFTWARE) Regarding Basikit, if you call Micromint sales and ask for a Basikit Upgrade you can get it for $90 as a current BCC52/RTC52 owner. Basikit is now included with the BCC52/RTC52 EDS and DEV systems. Regarding the threaded language, it is now offically called MPCL for Micromint Programmable Controller Language. It is a ROM-based FORTH-like language with real time clock that is meant for simple combinational bang-bang control. The language is designed to operate on the RTC31 or the RTC31 with RTC-BUFIO board (ad in latest INK). The language is done but not released. Micromint has so many new products for the fall (RTC processor boards with V25 and 68HC11 and a bunch of RS485 connected control modules) that MPCL might just mess up the works if released prematurely. If you owned a RTC-BUFIO board, however, there could be a strong case for a beta copy of MPCL. --Steve Msg#:31630 *INK* 08/09/90 03:02:40 From: BRAD NOTLAW To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 31595 (CCI SOFTWARE) Hmmmmmm...MPCL, heh? That's got a very nice ring to it. What might one do to get a spec sheet, or manual, or otherwise more detailed descrption? How small is it? Can it run with just the internal RAM in an 8031, or am I dreaming? I'd just about pee in my britches if you said it was a tweeny-weeny threaded language that would run on a half-dozen different controllers...little code snipets that don't have to be rewritten for each controller...Is it fast?? Could it handle, say, an x-10 or maybe a CEBus driver? Thanks--Brad Msg#:31644 *INK* 08/09/90 16:15:21 From: STEVE CIARCIA To: BRAD NOTLAW (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 31630 (CCI SOFTWARE) It's not quite teeney-weeney. It takes 12K of ROM and like to see 8K of RAM in the system. It can run on just the RTC31 all by it self and configure PORT1 as bit configurable I/O. Let me figure out how to post something larger and I'll get back to you. --Steve Msg#:31657 *INK* 08/09/90 21:01:35 From: BRAD NOTLAW To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 31644 (CCI SOFTWARE) Splendid....Thank you--Brad Msg#:31605 *INK* 08/08/90 13:34:18 From: LARRY KAYSER To: ALL Subj: ONDI, USES? I would be ver interested to find out the uses intended for ONDI, the remote PC control hardware in the latest CCI. The hardware intriques me considerably as a somewhat suffering user of pcANYWHERE. If anyone knows more of what the developer sees doing with this project I sure would appreciate finding out. Items of interest, applications, improvements in remote PC operations, recommended use with what other software? etc Msg#:31617 *INK* 08/08/90 16:30:21 From: CURT FRANKLIN To: LARRY KAYSER (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 31605 (ONDI, USES?) Well, John Dybowski (ONDI's developer) is here on the board, so if he doesn't see this message and respond you might try directing a message to him. He's a good guy, and has always seemed glad to discuss the project and its uses. Curt Msg#:31629 *INK* 08/09/90 02:27:42 From: CHAD SMITH To: CCINK Subj: DIGITAL VIDEO I need Help! I am trying to find an inexpensive way of flash grabbing a full color NTSC fram of video and storing it onto a optical harddisk and then pulling it off the drive and playing it in real time. What I want to do is take several minutes of full color vide video store it on a harddisk and the veiw it at a later time in real time. After I do this I need to find a way of sending it at high speed over a 1mhz wide line. -Chad Msg#:31675 *INK* 08/10/90 12:46:45 From: TIMOTHY TAYLOR To: CHAD SMITH (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 31629 (DIGITAL VIDEO) I don't have the exact particulars, but there are several companies that make DVI boards that'll plug into your AT and do just that. Storage requirements are high, and I'm not sure about the level of quality. The boards are a bit pricey also. Sorry I didn't have more at my finger tips. Msg#:31685 *INK* 08/10/90 20:35:24 From: CHAD SMITH To: TIMOTHY TAYLOR (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 31675 (DIGITAL VIDEO) WELL THANKYOU! DVI I'LL CHECK THIS OUT. -CHAD Msg#:31695 *INK* 08/11/90 01:12:33 From: FRANK HENRIQUEZ To: CHAD SMITH (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 31629 (DIGITAL VIDEO) Chad - you're a few years early! What you want is a real time image compression system, with at least a 20:1 compression. There's a company that makes such a chip, and they have a NuBus card for the Mac II that does the above. Storage is a big problem, because most optical drives are just too slow - maybe when they come out with read/write CD drives... I'm researching this now, and it doesn't look good. We're planning on building a high resolution infrared camera, that will have to be read out very fast - almost 30 frames/sec. We can't store the analog signal - we'll be working with very low signal levels, and we can't afford any more noise - so we have to digitize the frames (up to 512 x 512 x 16 bits) and store them *somewhere*. We're thinking of using a big array of fast transputers to get 30:1 or higher compression - it's already getting hairy! We won't be able to use our 386 beast for this (except as a controller of sorts) so it's either a Mac fx with 32 megs of ram (my first choice) a Sun of some sort (I wish...) or something else altogether...It might be easier to build a time machine, move foward 10 or 20 years, buy an HDTV chip set, read write CD and a Mac V...and a book of stock quotes and game scores... Msg#:31931 *INK* 08/19/90 02:40:53 From: CHAD SMITH To: FRANK HENRIQUEZ (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 31695 (DIGITAL VIDEO) OH WELL! THAT'S HOW THINGS COME TO BE & DEVELOPE. BY PEOPLE SETTING GOALS AND TAKEN THEM FROM DRAWING BOARD TO PROTOTYPE TO MASS PRODUCTION. I THINK I WILL TRY SENDING AND RECEIVING ANALOG AT HIGH SPEEDS INSTEAD OF DIGITAL. IT SHOULD WORK FOR MY APPLICATION BUT REQUIRE A WIDER BW. READ REPLY TO KENS MESSAGE. -CHAD Msg#:31645 *INK* 08/09/90 16:43:34 From: KEITH GILMAN To: ED NISLEY (Rcvd) Subj: FREQUENCY MONITOR I am building the frequency monitor you described in issue #15 of CCI and have some questions about the hardware and software. I am using the PseudoSam51 assembler which does not have all the fancy options used in the original source code, could you explain what "DEFSEG BitRAM PHANTOM" does? Also how much code modification would it take to use an 11.0592 MHZ crystal Thanks Msg#:31780 *INK* 08/13/90 13:22:48 From: ED NISLEY To: KEITH GILMAN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 31645 (FREQUENCY MONITOR) Assembler segments allow you to collect common things from all over your source code; for example, you can refer to a BitRAM segment in any source module and the data items will all show up in that segment. This is handy when you want to put all the constants in a given location, collect all the messages, or just segregate your code into chunks. The catch (and there is _always_ a catch) is that you can't have two segment overlap each other. The 8051's Internal RAM has the bit-addressable area right smack in the middle, starting at address $20. If you define a byte-addressable segment that starts at address $00 and extends all the way to $7F, which is a sensible way to do it, you can't define a bit-addressable segment starting at $20 hex. To get around this, Avocet defines a PHANTOM segment that can overlap anything, doesn't have any linker checks, and allows you to get into a world of hurt if you're not careful. But sometimes ya gotta do what ya gotta do. Probably the easiest way to do the deed with the PseudoSAM assembler is to EQU the bits in a header file and use them directly; you don't need to define them in a specific segment as I did. Might make things a little cryptic, but so it goes. Using an 11.059 MHz crystal would require recalculating all the lookup tables; you'll need to translate the REXX routines I wrote into your favorite language first, but they're not particularly tricky. Don't try to generate them by hand, because you'll go nuts first... let your computer do the dog work. Other than that, I don't think there are any other gotchas... Tell us how your power measures up! Msg#:31646 *INK* 08/09/90 17:14:51 From: DAVID BROOKS To: JOHN DYBOWSKI (Rcvd) Subj: ONDI PROJECT COMPONENTS I'm trying to locate the microcontroller specified for your ONDI project. No Luck so far. Dallas Semi distributors want to sell me a minimum of 7 or 8 and that is a 4 to 6 week wait! Do you have any sources I can tap? Or do you know of anyone offering a circuit board and parts kit? Any help you can offer will be appreciated. Thanks. Msg#:31650 *INK* 08/09/90 18:33:59 From: GARY MELANDER To: DAVID BROOKS (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 31646 (ONDI PROJECT COMPONENTS) I buy the DS5000T's in quantity as an O.E.M. from time to time. I need to check with the guys running this BBS, but if they have no problem with it, I can sell you a few (Or 1) if you pay return postage. Contact me at (Voice) (214) 436-6158. I use the DS5000 exclusively since I have buddies at Dallas Semi, and It just seems to fit the applications Ive been dealing with. (The 'T' in 500T stands for "Time". That puppy has an on-chip real time clock and calender, along with a host of goodies one usually has to wire up externally). For noise-critical jobs, The absence of external memory buses is a delight and I have these chips running inside of A.T.'s on expansion slots. Before, That application had to have heroic board layout planning and of course, needed a lot more room. Gary Melander Msg#:31656 *INK* 08/09/90 21:01:25 From: JOHN DYBOWSKI To: DAVID BROOKS (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 31646 (ONDI PROJECT COMPONENTS) David, I obtained my parts directly from Dallas so I'm afraid I don't have any other source readily available. I realize that the DS2250 may be difficult to obtain in small quantities. If there were enough interest I'd be willing to make a blanket purchase of DS2250's and user manuals that I could sell in single piece quantities. Perhaps I could also provide other hard to get components with the package. Presently there is no circuit card available, although I will be shooting one. Unfortunately I can't say when it will be available at the present time. Thanks for your interest. John Msg#:31676 *INK* 08/10/90 14:10:59 From: STEVE CIARCIA To: GARY MELANDER (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 31650 (ONDI PROJECT COMPONENTS) You are welcome to offer DS5000 chips for sale in support of your article. Any idea what the prices will be. We might even want a couple. --STeve Msg#:31707 *INK* 08/11/90 14:24:13 From: DAVID BROOKS To: JOHN DYBOWSKI (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 31656 (ONDI PROJECT COMPONENTS) John, thanks for the reply. Please let us know here on this BBS, if you get enough interest to justify sourcing the parts for ONDI. The two most difficult will be the DS2250-08-08 and the Max612. I think I can find all others locally in single quantity. A ciruit board would be nice, particularly if I made more than one device. To anyone else reading this; please leave a message here if you are interested in getting parts. Msg#:31710 *INK* 08/11/90 15:26:39 From: GARY MELANDER To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 31676 (ONDI PROJECT COMPONENTS) MY article? I never got paid for an article... The parts in question are the 40-pin DS5000T with 32Kx8 ram and clock. I have a few but if there is a substantial reader demand, I could consolotate an order and POSSIBLY get better pricing. As a BBS member, I would be doing this for conveniance sake and not to make money. I'm not in the business of selling parts and I don't care to become a chip house. But it makes sense to help if I can. Having close sources for project related parts may be of certain benefit to CCI. Since I don't try to build every project you publish, I may not be aware of other hard-to-find components. If you hear of others, let me know, since I have been buying for a long time. Gary Melander Msg#:31778 *INK* 08/13/90 11:06:33 From: STEVE CIARCIA To: GARY MELANDER (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 31710 (ONDI PROJECT COMPONENTS) All it takes is one enterprising guy to say he wants to supply parts for CC INK articles and put a 9th page ad in the magazine. Remember I started by writing articles and then someone began supplying the parts for them. --Steve Msg#:31925 *INK* 08/18/90 22:59:03 From: STUART BROOKS To: JOHN DYBOWSKI (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 31656 (ONDI PROJECT COMPONENTS) Dallas Semiconductors will sell to individuals by credit card. They have distributors for their products, though any one may not carry all of Dallas's components. I'm currently working on a USCG control system and have pretty much decided to use the DS5000 or DS2250. Sterling Electronics is a distributor as well as Hall-Mark. Call Dallas, ask for customer service. They can give you distributors in your state or closest possible. Msg#:31658 *INK* 08/09/90 21:02:25 From: CHAD SMITH To: ALL Subj: DIGITAL VIDEO My last message (I feel) was a bit difficult to understand. I need some help and this is what I want to do. I need to locate a device that digitizes color video at one frame in 1/60 of a second and stores it on a harddisk. Then I need another device that takes the frames off the harddisk and play it back and a normal speed. kinda like a digital VCR. -Chad Msg#:31671 *INK* 08/10/90 09:22:23 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: CHAD SMITH (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 31658 (DIGITAL VIDEO) Your problem is best broken down into two parts. First, there is no such thing as an inexpensive color video frame grabber. Most grayscale digitizers that capture a frame in 1/60 of a second are in the $700-$1000 range, with color equivalents at least two to three times that. Second is live digitizing. Let's make some assumptions and do some math. First, an ImageWise/PC that digitizes pictures with 256 x 244 resolution and 256 levels of gray requires 64K to store the digitized picture. Even though a color picture will likely take a lot more room, we'll use 64K of storage per picture. At 60 frames per second, that works out to 3.7 megabytes per second. I looked up the performance specs for a Rodime hard drive and found that using 512-byte sectors, 34 sectors per track, and 2746 RPM, and assuming 1:1 interleave, it takes 22 ms to write a single track which contains 17408 bytes. Add 18 ms for a track-to-track head move and you have 40 ms for 17408 bytes, or 435200 bytes per second. So transferring data to this drive at the fastest rate possible, you're only able to push data out at 1/9 the rate necessary to save all the information you're digitizing. I know there are better performing drives on the market, but not nine times better. You'd also fill a 100-megabyte drive in less than 30 seconds. In summary, it's not cost effective to try to do live video digitizing and playback using current technology. Msg#:31677 *INK* 08/10/90 14:21:28 From: STEVE CIARCIA To: CHAD SMITH (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 31658 (DIGITAL VIDEO) There is a 1/9 page ad in the next CC INK from a company called HRT that makes what you want. --STeve Msg#:31683 *INK* 08/10/90 20:31:52 From: CHAD SMITH To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 31677 (DIGITAL VIDEO) OKAY GREAT!! -CHAD Msg#:31684 *INK* 08/10/90 20:33:54 From: CHAD SMITH To: KEN DAVIDSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 31671 (DIGITAL VIDEO) I REALIZE NOW WHAT IT WOULD TAKE! WOW! I FIGURED IT MIGHT BE POSSIBLE BECAUSE THE NEW CD VIDEO DISK 5.25" CAN HOLD 78 MINS OD A/V. -CHAD SMITH Msg#:31687 *INK* 08/10/90 21:37:13 From: PAUL PETERSEN To: CHAD SMITH (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 31658 (DIGITAL VIDEO) chad, there are software/hardware oem systems that do exactly what you want to do... either single frames or motion clips... the one that i saw advertized recently was aimed at auto dealerships who have more than one advertizing video clip... it was $$$ expensive.. IBM recently announced an interface board called DVI or something like that for this application also...$2,000... actually i think you'd be more successful contacting Home & Office Computing magazine on the Prodigy system.... they know all about this sort of application.... however, ColorBurst in Nashua NH (603)891-1588 does make a $90 frame digitizer that's a natural for the folks at home with vcr/camera... cga,ega,vga... try giving them a call... happy days, paul Msg#:31736 *INK* 08/12/90 01:45:11 From: TOM MORAN To: KEN DAVIDSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 31671 (DIGITAL VIDEO) Real time color frame grabbing isn't so expensive these days. I believe a Targa 16 (5 bits each of red, green, blue with 512x480 resolution at 1/30 sec or 512x240 at 1/60) is around $1700 and there are clones and workalikes for less - I'm using an Atronics PIB+ that cost $1295 18 months ago. What is the reason for the hard disk in this application? A VCR will quite nicely frame grab and play back in real time. :-) Msg#:31755 *INK* 08/12/90 21:17:43 From: JERRY BLACK To: KEN DAVIDSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 31671 (DIGITAL VIDEO) Ken, you're stuck in the PC/MAC price/mindset. This video stuff can be done on Amigas for a TOTAL SYSTEM cost less than some overpriced kludge board for those lesser machines. Full color digitizing can be done for 200 bux, or less. I do it all the time!! Msg#:31769 *INK* 08/13/90 09:23:50 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: PAUL PETERSEN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 31687 (DIGITAL VIDEO) That $90 Colorburst thingy is *NOT* a frame grabber. It takes anywhere from 10 to 20 seconds to digitize a single frame, so it's no good for digitizing running video and it's completely worthless for digitizing consecutive frames. Msg#:31782 *INK* 08/13/90 13:23:56 From: ED NISLEY To: KEN DAVIDSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 31671 (DIGITAL VIDEO) Well, those are color grabbers, all right, but I bet Ken's got the data transfer numbers correct... you can get the image on the board, but that's as far as it goes in real time running! Msg#:31791 *INK* 08/13/90 20:31:42 From: PAUL PETERSEN To: KEN DAVIDSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 31769 (DIGITAL VIDEO) ken, thanks for the correction... i have the ad here and you're right, it dose'nt say frame grabber... it does give that impression tho... i must confess that this is one i -did'nt- call.... mea culpa, mea culpa....... Msg#:31929 *INK* 08/19/90 02:28:21 From: CHAD SMITH To: TOM MORAN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 31736 (DIGITAL VIDEO) I NEED A HIGH SPEED MEDIA THAT CAN RE-TRANSMIT THE DIGITAL INFORMATION (VIDEO) AT A HIGHER RATE OF SPEED THEN BE RECEIVED AT THE SAME HIGH RATE, STORED, THEN PLAYED BACK AT NORMAL TIME. MY APPLICATION WOULD BE USED IN A DIAL-UP MICROWAVE CABLE TV SYSTEM OR INSTANT WIRELESS MOVIE RENTALS. THE CUSTOMER CHOOSES WHAT AND WHEN THEY WANT TO WATCH.. IN STEREO OF COURSE, THE AUDIO WOULD BE TAKEN CARE OF VIA AN SCA SYSTEM. -CHAD Msg#:31930 *INK* 08/19/90 02:32:21 From: CHAD SMITH To: JERRY BLACK (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 31755 (DIGITAL VIDEO) THE AMIGA IS EXCELLENT FOR THAT APPLICATION BUT IT IS LIMITED. I OWN AN AMIGA SYSTEM AND USE DIGIVIEW 4.0 I CAN GET 16 MILLION COLORS AND ANIMATE IN B/W AFTER SAMPLING IN REAL TIME. WOW! AND THE WHOLE SYSTEM COST ME $2000. I EVEN GOT A COMPUTER SYSTEM OUT OF THE DEAL. -CHAD Msg#:31673 *INK* 08/10/90 10:43:37 From: HARRY KOLBE To: CURT FRANKLIN (Rcvd) Subj: DSCOPE PAL PROGRAMMING We have recently purchased all the parts needed to complete the Digital Oscilloscope project presented in CC Ink. Holding us back from completing the project are two PAL's which need to be programmed. We would be very greatfull to anyone who can either programm these chips or point us in the direction of someone who can. The chips are one each PAL20S10 and PAL20X8. We have the logic equations in an ASCII text file downloaded from this BBS. Can anyone help? Harry Kolbe Msg#:31776 *INK* 08/13/90 10:55:15 From: CURT FRANKLIN To: HARRY KOLBE (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 31673 (DSCOPE PAL PROGRAMMING) Gee, surely there is someone on the BBS who can program a couple of PALs for you. At one time, the author of that article would do the deed, but he seems to have dropped off the face of the earth, so I can't in good conscience recommend him as a supplier. Any CCINK readers out there who can help Harry out with his problem? Hello...anyone there? Curt Msg#:31728 *INK* 08/11/90 20:29:23 From: STEVE BUNCH To: DALE NASSAR (Rcvd) Subj: COMPUTER-GENERATED HOLOGRAMS Dale, I read the note I sent previously, and noticed that the code sample was much messier than it should have been - my tabs were deleted, but spaces remained. Here's a cleaner version: case kCircle: /* speeded up version for easy cases */ case kSpiral: case kCOSFlower: for (i = 0; i < HP_NUM; i++) { px = xlookup [i] + offsetx; py = ylookup [i] + offsety; v = ((double) ((px - x)*(px - x)+(py - y)*(py - y)+(pz_squared))); d = (v / d + d) * 0.5;/* one iteration of Newton-Raphson for sqrt */ phase = d / l; /* wave number */ phase = phase - (long)phase; /* scale [0.0 - 1.0) */ s = s + SIN_LOOKUP(phase); } break; I also neglected to mention that plotting the holograms with an offset yielded reasonably easily viewable (though small) virtual images. There are some odd effects with the virtual images. One hologram (ten points in a circle) has a pair of diagonally-opposite images right next to the beam, then an additional pair a long ways out (maybe 7-8? image diameters) away next to the second order beam point image. Those are not paired. (For a total of four images). A different figure got a very different effect. There were multiple images diagonally across from each other surrounding the beam. Fun stuff. Steve Msg#:31899 *INK* 08/17/90 03:46:59 From: DALE NASSAR To: STEVE BUNCH (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 31728 (COMPUTER-GENERATED HOLOGRAMS) Steve, sounds very interesting--I would like to see one of your negatives sometime. My best images were also the offset types when the zero order beam was separated from the image-- In fact the holographic pixels were so sharp that they almost looked "perfect". From the mail I am getting, it seems that many capable people are willing to put significant time and effort into the formation of these holograms--I would like to consider generating a high resolution hologram, perhaps using shared computer power to generate a near-field 3-D virtual image of a computer generated surface. I have some nice surfaces from an anaglyph program that I plan to submit to INK (I'm getting great depth here (although not holographic). One image straddles the screen and projects about six inches into and out of the screen). I am planning to do more work on the computer-generated hologram project including laserless full color images. Did you try the bleach yet? Also the latter part of your message #31583 seemed to get cut off. --Dale Msg#:32364 *INK* 09/02/90 15:34:26 From: STEVE BUNCH To: DALE NASSAR (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 31899 (COMPUTER-GENERATED HOLOGRAMS) Dale, I'd be happy to send you a couple of them. I've started mounting them in Pako slide mounts (cheap plastic ones I had left over from old days when I was developing my own color film), which makes them easy to work with. The pixels are extremely sharp, and ther is very little noise anywhere near them. You can give me a call sometime or post your mailing address. (My home phone is 217-344-0456, work 217-384-8515). Making a complex image sounds like a worthy project. I'll be glad to help. I have access to large amounts of compute power (I work for a part of Motorola that makes computers) that goes to waste at nights and on weekends, and have friends at the University of Illinois who do graphics for a living. They have a Connection Machine, and (though the amount of available time without hard $$$ is limited), a couple of Crays. I haven't tried bleaching yet. Have been very busy at work, traveling a lot, and haven't had time. That's one of the next experiments to try, though. I have been researching computer-generated holograms at the University library. Found a flurry of activity in the late 60's and early 70's. Two items in particular are interesting: "Synthetic Binary-Phase Holograms", by Raynaud Henton, (MS thesis, 1973), and "Synthetic Real and Imaginary Holograms", by Russell Singleton (MS thesis, 1973). Both build on work written up in "Computeeneration and reconstruction of Holograms", by Lesem, Hirsch, aand Jordan (two papers, 1967 and 1968). I'm building a mini-bibliography of these. All these guys use the same basic approach: compute the fourier transform of the desired image and plot that, then display it. I'm rusty enough on Fourier transforms that it's been very slow going for me, but I'm beginning to get into it. I'll try to post the missing part of 31583 as a reply to it. It was probably too long. Steve Msg#:31794 *INK* 08/13/90 23:13:49 From: RANDY TAYLOR To: ALL USERS Subj: X-10 POWER CONTROL I am looking for easy interface of pc to x-10 controls...one driven by a prog on pc that turns ckt on or off or dims with one command...need primarily the hardware...gate the signals onto the ac line...something that will work for a lot of circuits, not just a few...dont like heath unit...want something I can control NOW this instant instead of preprogramming and downloading to heath. I have seen Steve's ckt cellar articles but just want a box to connect, say to printer port and a wall outlet. Anybody know of any such animal? Msg#:31805 *INK* 08/14/90 08:39:31 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: RANDY TAYLOR (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 31794 (X-10 POWER CONTROL) I did two articles in Circuit Cellar INK on just such a beast. I showed how the unit works and presented an interface to connect it to an IBM PC parallel port along with some code. Look up issues #3 and #5 of INK, or go to the INK information area from the main menu to find out how to order the first-year reprint book to get both articles. The hardware and code on disk may be ordered from Micromint. Msg#:31797 *INK* 08/14/90 01:17:43 From: MARK GIVINS To: STEVE, DALE, MIKE, ED Subj: LASERS tHANK YOU for the help I found a he-ne for a good price and will wait for the diode model. I wonder if intefrence can be seen with the new blue led;s. thank you M. Givins ps what does polorized and random mode refer to? I see that random models are cheaper and polorized are cost more. edmund sci. also has a stabilized model for a very large price. I guess I am a litle concused what these terms mean and can get no reliable answers from the tech people. Msg#:31815 *INK* 08/14/90 20:33:09 From: MARK BALCH To: ED NISLEY (Rcvd) Subj: INVERTED VIDEO SIGNAL? Hi Ed, I built the frame grabber that I told you about a few weeks ago and started debugging it two days ago. The MPU section works without a hitch and I believe that the digitizing and storage section does as well. But the analog signal conditioning hardware has again caused some problems. The prototype that I built on a breadboard works fine, so let me explain my problem that has something to do with the power supply, I believe. The NTSC video signal straight from the camera is fine. When I connect the cable to the jacks on the frame grabber with the power *OFF*, the signal remains okay and propagates to some degree through to the 2N4401 buffer (remaining okay). However, as soon as I turn on the power, bam! The signal seems to invert and is distorted as well. My power supply is an LM323K regulator that has a good heatsink (even though it gets pretty hot). The DC current being regulated comes from a normal rectifier and transformer with a 470uF cap. across the rectifier's outputs. I believe that the power supply is accurate because my DMM reads 4.98V and as I said before, the MPU and all associated ICs work perfectly. I attempted to find any rippling with my scope (I assumed its like looking at any other signal) but was so insignificant (barely visible at 5X0.2V/line) that I ruled that out. In other words, I am stuck. Do you have any idea what can be causing this problem? Normally I'd think my schematic was incorrect, but I have an identical working version on my breadboard right now. Thanks for your help in advance! Bye, Mark Msg#:32002 *INK* 08/21/90 12:34:08 From: ED NISLEY To: MARK BALCH (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 31815 (INVERTED VIDEO SIGNAL?) Wiring error? When you've eliminated all the impossible stuff, what's left is usually obvious... I'd bet you've got either a short or an outright blunder somewhere on the board. The fact that the signal is more or less with no power simply means you have enough impedance between it and ground to avoid a dead short, which isn't a good indication that everything is all right. Some obvious things (that I've done!) include: wrong resistor value in the right place (like 1K instead of 10K in a base pullup), wrong transistor pinout (common base where I thought it was common emitter), flagrant wiring error (collector resistor to base terminal), and so forth. The fact that the signal is inverted says you're running it through an active device, but, if you're using the ImageWise circuitry, there _aren't_ any inverting transistors in the signal path! Hmmm... Also, make sure the LM323 isn't oscillating at 100 MHz or so. You need a small bypass cap on both the input and output terminals; 100 nF is OK, and it's best if you use a tantalum cap rather than an aluminum 'lytic on the output side. Depending on your scope, you'll never see the oscillations because they're far and above the normal bandwidth... but things Just Don't Work Right. Msg#:32091 *INK* 08/24/90 21:32:04 From: MARK BALCH To: ED NISLEY (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 32002 (INVERTED VIDEO SIGNAL?) I have interesting luck in my project. Problems seem to disappear and appear of their own free will. The day after I posted my message to you, the video signal returned to its normal orientation. Now, the problem has shifted back to software. I will however, add a 0.1uF tant to the outputs of the LM323. I was being lazy when I decided not to. All I need now is just debugging time to work out the quirks in my system. BTW, do you know why my LM323 may be getting so very hot with a good heat sink and only a 2A maximum load (rated for 3A normal operation)? It shut down on me once two weeks ago and I am now afraid to keep the thing running for more than a few minutes at a time. Thanks alot...Mark Msg#:32118 *INK* 08/25/90 11:47:39 From: TIMOTHY TAYLOR To: MARK BALCH (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 32091 (INVERTED VIDEO SIGNAL?) Check the voltage drop across the LM323. I *think* the beast is rated to dissapate somwhere around 20 watts or so, maybe a higher. Anyway, even though the current draw may only be 2 amps, if the drop across it is, say, 10 volts, it'll have to dissapate 20 watts. Even with a good heatsink, the 323 is gonna get very warm. Msg#:32129 *INK* 08/26/90 10:45:24 From: PELLERVO KASKINEN To: MARK BALCH (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 32091 (INVERTED VIDEO SIGNAL?) About the heating of your LM323: You do not state the important parameters other than 2 amperes. The heating comes from the PRODUCT of current and voltage over the chip versus the dissipating ability of the heat sink. If we assume, you have 5 V out from the chip, 15 V in and the 2 A current through it, we get 20 W to dissipate. Typical TO-3 style heat sinks for board mount can handle 15 W with tolerable rise in temperature. Some are more, some are less and then of course the important issue is, what temperature you consider tolerable. Obviously, one that causes the thermal shut down of the chip is not tolerable. Apart from putting in a heftier heat sink, you should consider reducing the voltage drop over the chip, as long as that maintains the minimum requirement for regulation. Typically you might need something like 3 V minimum at the bottom of the ripple in the feed voltage. The average and the peak of course are higher, depending on the size of your filtering capacitor. You might even say that there is a tradeoff between the size of the capacitor and the necessary secondary voltage of the transformer. I hope this points you towards the solution. I am willing to provide more accurate estimates, if you tell the AC voltage on the secondary, the size of the capacitor and the type of your heat sink. -- PJK Msg#:32207 *INK* 08/28/90 19:58:50 From: ED NISLEY To: MARK BALCH (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 32091 (INVERTED VIDEO SIGNAL?) Everything I said about flaky hardware is still true; you've got a loose wire in there somewhere. Don't assume that troubles just "go away" because they'll come back to haunt you just when the schedule's getting tight. Msg#:32239 *INK* 08/29/90 22:03:54 From: MARK BALCH To: PELLERVO KASKINEN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 32129 (INVERTED VIDEO SIGNAL?) Well, is there an easy solution to control the drop across the LM323? I have already ordered HC and HCT versions of my LS chips, so that my main board will not draw as much power. I hope that will help the situation. Thanks alot! Mark Msg#:32240 *INK* 08/29/90 22:05:23 From: MARK BALCH To: ED NISLEY (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 32207 (INVERTED VIDEO SIGNAL?) I checked the hardware again, I can only assume that I configured the scope wrong since it was late at night and I was getting mad. I have a new problem, but its complex and I don't want to waste everyone's long distance on it, so I am sending you private e-mail. I appreciate all the help you've been giving me. Bye...Mark Msg#:32244 *INK* 08/29/90 22:11:17 From: MARK BALCH To: TIMOTHY TAYLOR (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 32118 (INVERTED VIDEO SIGNAL?) If I am giving the LM323 15V and its output is 5V, the drop is 10V? Hmm, 20 Watts at 2 Amps. (I wish digital and analog electronics could be separated!) The only way I can see to solve the problem is to reduce the power requirements. I've ordered 74HC(T) replacements for all my 74LS parts. I hope that will help. My board is using 4 LS245's and 2 LS373's and in TriState mode they use about 120ma. The CMOS versions wer (8ma?). Bye...Mark Msg#:32264 *INK* 08/30/90 09:35:55 From: TIMOTHY TAYLOR To: MARK BALCH (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 32244 (INVERTED VIDEO SIGNAL?) Well, if ya can't reduce the load current, would it be possible to reduce the supply voltage ? Maybe even go to a new supply. If not, there are a couple of inefficient and sloppy things you can do to cool down the LM323. You can try putting a 2.5 ohm (I don't know if a 2.5 ohm would even exisit) 15 watt resistor in series with the input to the '323. That should reduce the input voltage down to around 10 volts and cut down the power it needs to dissapate to about 10 watts. You still have about the same amount of power to dissapte, you're just distributing it a little over a couple of devices. Secondly, and even less elegant, is to try and pre-regulate down to 8-10 volts before you hit the '323. Again, you'll be faced with the same power dissapation problems with the '323. Geez, come to think of it, I think I'd get a new supply rather than jump through all those hoops :). Stay cool. Tim. Msg#:32265 *INK* 08/30/90 12:12:11 From: BOB PADDOCK To: MARK BALCH (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 32244 (INVERTED VIDEO SIGNAL?) Depending on frequency and duty cycle HC(T) parts can require MORE power than LS parts. A mixture of both maybe a better way to lower power consumption. Msg#:32303 *INK* 08/31/90 15:24:33 From: STEVE CIARCIA To: MARK BALCH (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 32244 (INVERTED VIDEO SIGNAL?) Use a switching regulator instead of a linear regulator. 15V in, 5V out at 2-amp with about 75% efficiency = 5 watts dissipation. --Steve Msg#:32326 *INK* 09/01/90 06:53:51 From: PELLERVO KASKINEN To: MARK BALCH (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 32239 (INVERTED VIDEO SIGNAL?) Steve gives the best solution to the power dissipation problem. A switching regulator can be handy and since a few weeks ago, there is even a plug-in replacement for some common 3-terminal regulators in a self-contained form. As I understand, this producer has difficulties in delivering his product. Moreover, it is not quite as much current as you need. The main thing to do for reducing the supply voltage (and thereby the drop over the regulator) is to get a new transformer, with lower secondary voltage. If you do so, you may need to increase the capacitance after the rectifier in order to maintain the bottom of the ripple at about 8 V or higher. Like I said earlier, I can make the necessary calculations and produce an estimate of the feasibility, if you just tell the AC voltage your transformer puts into the rectifier. Oh, is it a center tapped system with just two diodes, or is it a full bridge (4 diodes)? -- PJK Msg#:32333 *INK* 09/01/90 13:08:20 From: MARK BALCH To: TIMOTHY TAYLOR (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 32264 (INVERTED VIDEO SIGNAL?) I'll see how things go with the 74HC parts. If it still gets too hot, I'll try the parallel resistor in front of the regulator. If not, the LM323 is taking a hike... Thanks. Mark Msg#:32334 *INK* 09/01/90 13:09:50 From: MARK BALCH To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 32303 (INVERTED VIDEO SIGNAL?) It is somehting to definitely think about. I certainly have the time to invest in learning to use switchers. Do you think I could fit one into about 3"x3" of board space? It doesn't have to be terribly efficient, just not bad enough to cause a meltdown. Thanks...Mark Msg#:32335 *INK* 09/01/90 13:14:26 From: MARK BALCH To: PELLERVO KASKINEN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 32326 (INVERTED VIDEO SIGNAL?) Well, the rectifier is the full 4 diode type. I would like to find a solution to keep the LM323 because it is already soldered in with all the power wires and all. If I can find a good sized xfrmr with an 8V secondary I'll go for that. Mine claims to be 12V but is really up there at 15V. Its center tap is just slightly too low to use as the reg's input. Like I said, I am lucky in that I have alot of time until I really have to keep it on for a long time - roughly 4 months. But I would like to start other projects. Re: drop in switcher replacements, I'll check TI's linear devices data book for possibilities. Thanks...Mark Msg#:32337 *INK* 09/01/90 13:35:39 From: MARK BALCH To: BOB PADDOCK (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 32265 (INVERTED VIDEO SIGNAL?) Really? That is surprising to find out. My major reason in using the HC(T) parts is to get rid of the LS245 and LS373 which use as much as 120ma when they are at hi-z. I remember seeing the HCT245 uses something like 8ma in the National Semi data book. Bye...Mark Msg#:32356 *INK* 09/02/90 09:46:38 From: PELLERVO KASKINEN To: MARK BALCH (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 32335 (INVERTED VIDEO SIGNAL?) All right, looks like you have the facts right. But what is the size of your capacitor? If you have a really large capacitor, 7.5 V secondary that you appear to have from the center tap would be plenty enough for the LM323. Even better, you could use only two diodes and thereby save about 0.7 V in the drop, if you change into using the center tap as the common. The peak voltage out of the transformer would be 7.5 x 1.4 = 10.6 V. You lose 0.7 V in the single diode, so you still have 9.9 V as the peak on the capacitor. Now, the only thing to check is that you still have 8 V or so at the ripple bottom. At 2 amperes of current and 1.9 V of peak to peak ripple we get C = (I t)/V, where t is the discharge time before the next charging brings in a new peak. Let's say it is about 7.5 milliseconds. Then we get C = 2 x 7.5 / 1.9 millifarads. That is about 8 mF or 8000 uF with a 12 or 15 V voltage rating. Not too uncommon presently! On the other hand, with the 15 V AC that you are using now, you get actually about 15 V of drop over the poor regulator and that means 30 W dissipation, not 20 as I estimated earlier, good grief! -- PJK Msg#:32395 *INK* 09/04/90 07:51:42 From: BOB PADDOCK To: MARK BALCH (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 32337 (INVERTED VIDEO SIGNAL?) In the front of RCA's (Now Harris) High-Speed-CMOS data book there is a good section, with graphs of power consumption versis frequency. If the gate is inactive, or hi-Z, then the HC(T) will belower than the equvelnt LS part. Msg#:32416 *INK* 09/04/90 20:25:40 From: MARK BALCH To: PELLERVO KASKINEN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 32356 (INVERTED VIDEO SIGNAL?) Gee, I have no room for anything more than 470uF (what I have now). The HCT parts came today, so I'll see how they affect the situation. In a few weeks, after I get the hardware working properly (!), I may rip up the linear power reg and build in a small switcher. This is the last time I use a linear for any load past 1.5A (1.0A?). Thanks...Mark Msg#:32417 *INK* 09/04/90 20:27:27 From: MARK BALCH To: BOB PADDOCK (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 32395 (INVERTED VIDEO SIGNAL?) Well, I have 3 of the buffer chips for each channel that will access the storage RAM and due to the nature of the design, they remain at a certain state for long periods of time. I am hoping that the HCT245 and HCT373 will make a large dent in my power requirements. Bye...Mark Msg#:32490 *INK* 09/07/90 10:22:36 From: STEVE CIARCIA To: MARK BALCH (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 32334 (INVERTED VIDEO SIGNAL?) You should be able to make a 2 amp switcher in a couple cubic inches. --Steve Msg#:31878 *INK* 08/16/90 16:38:30 From: JIM MCCUSKER To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: ZEUS Steve, I just read this months column and was wondering if 'Zeus' has struct yet! If so, will you be writing about it in the upcoming issues. Jim Msg#:32082 *INK* 08/24/90 16:19:44 From: STEVE CIARCIA To: JIM MCCUSKER Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 31878 (ZEUS) Believe it or not, as of Aug 24th we still have not had a thunderstorm in my area. Therefore Zeus has exacted no revenge. In the meantime someone who apparently knows a lot about lightning and protection has agreed to do an article for CC INK. When that is published (you'll have to check with Curt) I'll probably put a 2-page sidebar in about my particular installation. Whne you look at the picture on my greenhouse in the next issue of CC INK, note the 2 lightning rods on top :-) --Steve Msg#:31882 *INK* 08/16/90 18:04:57 From: TOM BURKE To: STEVE BUNCH (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 28571 (COMPUTER-GENERATED HOLOGRAMS) Steve, I've just recently picked up on this thread. Have you by any chance posted your Mac program for generating holograms on this BBS? Would you be willing to do so? Also, is it necessary to photograph the screen image to make the hologram? What about printing the image on a transparency with a LaserWriter? I suppose the resolution might not be high enough... Anyway, thanks for any help. P.S. I'm interested in this because I'm an exhibits designer at a science museum. We did an exhibit on lasers a little while back which included a lot of holograms made using different technologies. I'd love to add one generated using a computer. Msg#:32363 *INK* 09/02/90 15:18:11 From: STEVE BUNCH To: TOM BURKE Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 31882 (COMPUTER-GENERATED HOLOGRAMS) Tom, I haven't posted the program, but would be glad to do so. It requires a public-domain skeleton called Transkel which is rather large, so what I'd prefer to do is post only my addition to Transkel and include information to get Transkel from the authors or another bboard. I did port the core of the code to a UNIX system, less any display production, and could post that if anyone wanted it. I haven't tried printing the result to a Laserprinter, but it would probably work reasonably well. Since I didn't write the code to work that way (I save the entire computed floating point array so it is easy to do a screen refresh - not necessary when printing to a laserprinter), you'd have to modify it somewhat. Not hard, really. I was eventually going to try it, but haven't gotten around to it. I have noticed that the Laserprinter we use at work isn't always consistent in feeding the paper linearly, so you might have slight longitudinal distortion on a large run. Still well worth trying; there was a letter in the last CCC from some guys who did it successfully. I will try to get the code together a little bit and download it soon. Steve Msg#:31919 *INK* 08/18/90 15:07:49 From: RICHARD WAMSER To: ED NISLEY PE Subj: DIRECT MEMORY ACCESS DEAR ED, I picked-up the Books that you suggested "THE XT-AT HANDBOOK" & "AT BUS DESIGN" for Hardware interface & BUS Timing information on DIRECT MEMORY ACCESS from a I/O Card to Memory. After much reading and some building I how have DMA1 CH#3 ( DRQ3 ) a 8-BIT Channel working just great I Programmed it for BLOCK TRANSFER, AUTOINITALIZATION, FIXED PRIORITY, WRITE TRANSFER. My Current Problem is that I can't get DMA2 CH#1 ( DRQ5 ) a 16-BIT Channel to work --- I seem to be getting the Hardware Signals but no Values appear to be stored in Memory. I Programmed DMA2 CH#1 ( DRQ5 ) the same as DMA1 CH#3 & I am using the same Hardware ( I ENABLE two 74HC245 to put the Data on the Data BUS for both the 8-BIT & 16-BIT Transfers --- in 8-BIT only 8 BITS are Transfered ). Questions: Are their any signal differences between 8-BIT & 16-BIT Transfers ??? Do I have to send out from the I/O Card a 16-BIT signal or some other Signal ?? If so what Signal or SIgnals and what Logic Level & timing ?? For DMA2 CH#1 ( DRQ1 ) I only Programmed the Ports for DMA2 do I also have to do some Programming to DMA1 ??? If so What do I have to Program & what Values ?? If you have any suggestions, comments, ideas, or information I sure would appreciate it. Also if you would like any additional information to crearify any of the above or what ever please let me know. Thank you for your time and all your help I am looking forward to hearing from you Thanks Again Richard Msg#:32010 *INK* 08/21/90 14:41:56 From: ED NISLEY To: RICHARD WAMSER (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 31919 (DIRECT MEMORY ACCESS) OK, all you DMA jocks, time to chime in! I invited Richard to dial in here to get some advice from folks who have more DMA experience than I do... so don't let me down! Msg#:32123 *INK* 08/25/90 20:04:18 From: RICHARD WAMSER To: ED NISLEY (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 32010 (DIRECT MEMORY ACCESS) Thanks ED for your Request for help for me to the rest of the Group I sure hope that their is some one out their that has experminted with DMA or has a lot more knowledge of the interworkings of the AT BUSS than I do I am still working on the DMA problem, if you come up with any suggestions or ideas for me to try I sure would appreciate it as I am starting to run out of things to try. Thanks Again Richard Msg#:32020 *INK* 08/21/90 20:48:16 From: MARC DAVID BUMBLE To: CURT FRANKLIN (Rcvd) Subj: SCSI INTERFACE Dear Sirs: I think I found an error in the hardware schematic listed in the "Build a Simple SCSI-to-Anything Interface" by Jim MacArthur pp 15- 21 of the April/May 1990 Circuit Cellar Ink issue. I believe that Nand Gate U6-b (composed of pins 4,5,6 of 74LS00) should really be a Nor gate U7-d (composed of pins 11, 12, 13 on 74LS02). If I use a Macintosh Toolbox routine called SCSISelect() to select the interface target with the circuit built as illustrated in figure 2 of the article, the interface hangs the bus up. SCSISelect() causes DB7\, SEL\, and the targetID line (DB#\) to be pulled low. The U6-b Nand gate's output is then pulled high because of the DB7\ line and this shut off the 74LS151 "Line Data Selector". The SR latch created by U7-a and U7-b Nor gate fails to set and bsy\ is not pulled high. Switching U6-b to a Nor gate solves this problem but causes the interface to stall the intiator (computer) during start-up. I also dont understand the five assembly routines list in the article. The comments in the code state that "...scuzzy_select selects the target specified by D1..." but scuzzy_select doesnt call or use D1. There obviously some bugs here. I am not familiar enough with assembly lang. programming to debug this and would appreciate some literature references which would assist in debugging these routines. So far, Im having a difficult time reproducing the interface published in this article. Thanks for any help in solving these problems. Msg#:32201 *INK* 08/28/90 11:15:01 From: CURT FRANKLIN To: MARC DAVID BUMBLE (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 32020 (SCSI INTERFACE) Thanks for the note. I'll pass your comments on to Jim and ask him to draft a response. Curt Msg#:32380 *INK* 09/03/90 01:35:19 From: MARC DAVID BUMBLE To: CURT FRANKLIN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 32201 (SCSI INTERFACE) Thanks for the response, Im still going at this code and the article project and the frustration continues. Ive tried modifying the code following the DAQ3000 project which was previously published but to no avail. The normal SCSI Toolbox routines in the Macintosh do get the interface to reset, and select, but the problems start there. Please keep me posted, I haven't lost interest but I have started course work for a Masters. Sincereley Marc Bumble. PS I am attempting to generate the project code using Think C's assembly language compiler. Any help from Jim would be greatly appreciated. Msg#:32389 *INK* 09/04/90 02:18:24 From: FRANK HENRIQUEZ To: MARC DAVID BUMBLE (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 32380 (SCSI INTERFACE) Marc: You'll probably have to modify the source code for the DAQ3000; it's not very robust code - you may want to follow some of the source code from Apple, or just give it a try yourself, following the example in Inside Macintosh (vol 4). Other than software errors, make sure that the DAQ3000 does not have a SCSI address higher than the SCSI address of your hard disk - the Mac will try to boot from the DAQ3000 - and make sure that it's not set to SCSI address 7. Also, make sure you have the system properly terminated - only the last device (excluding the Mac) should be terminated. Good luck! Msg#:32638 *INK* 09/13/90 22:42:45 From: MARC DAVID BUMBLE To: FRANK HENRIQUEZ (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 32389 (SCSI INTERFACE) Frank: I have been checking out the DAQ3000 project for 2 weeks now and I dont see how the SCSI target's address is set to 4. I dont have a good feeling about this project either, and Im not sure I am willing to sink more money into it until I think it will work. Have you attempted to build this one? I am contacting NCR to see if they will send me any info on a MAC SCSI hardware interface for the SCSI chips. I already have some samples and have attempted to communicate from my Mac to the chip unsucessfully. Setting the SCSI ID is no easy task. Internal registers in the chip must be set and I havent been able to to this by probing the chip register pins. Please write me back as to whether you, or anyone else for that matter has attempted the DAQ3000 project. I have written an editor in Lightspeed C (Think C) which uses the Macintosh toolbox routines. It has some bugs which need working out and is about 15 pages long. I would like to release it on a Bulliten board or in an article, but I need to apply for patents first I think. Anyways please write me If you make any progress with the SCSI system. Thanks Marc Bumble. PS has anyone as SYSOP heard from Jim MacArthur on the "SCSI to anything interface"? Has anyone else attempted it? Beware if you do, I still think it has design problems and major software problems. Msg#:32660 *INK* 09/14/90 23:12:36 From: FRANK HENRIQUEZ To: MARC DAVID BUMBLE Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 32638 (SCSI INTERFACE) I haven't tried building either SCSI article, but I've been thinking about it (I'm trying to put together a NuBus card, though, and THAT is a nightmare). I'm looking at the DAQ3000 article and, by golly, there doesn't seem to be a hardware switch to set the SCSI address! the on board 6502 must be setting the address. It would be nice it it polled a set of dip switches for the address, though. The Mac's SCSI side is fairly simple - the problem obviously lies in the DAQ3000. As for the SCSI to anything interface, it does have a hardware SCSI address setting. It also looks like a simpler circuit, therefore, you have a better chance at getting it to work. The Mac code is not very robust, and could use some work. As for your editor - what kind of editor is it? text editors for the Mac are a dime a dozen...if you're worried about getting credit for it, copywright it. Msg#:32088 *INK* 08/24/90 18:04:22 From: MARK DUQUETTE To: ANYONE Subj: SMALL-C DOC I need the documentation for the Small-C compiler for the 68HC11 MICRO. A version of the compiler is in the micro development file area but no docs. Any help will be appreciated. THANKS MARK DUQUETTE Msg#:32092 *INK* 08/24/90 21:36:12 From: MARK BALCH To: CURT FRANKLIN (Rcvd) Subj: FUTURE PROJECT TOPICS Hi Curt, I know that you like getting input from INK readers and I have an idea for an interesting controller (another!) project. TI has come out with a very powerful family of controllers, the TMS370 family. There are a good number of devices to choose from and range from 28 pin DIPs to 68 PLCCs. They're packed with I/O, EEPROM, RAM and EPROM and allow bus expansion. The UART is nice in that it can accept 65535 baud rates. I know that finding an author is the hard part, but I'm sure that the guys over there would like to play with these chips. (BTW, what ever happened to that 68HC11 project?) Bye...Mark Msg#:32154 *INK* 08/27/90 09:15:28 From: CURT FRANKLIN To: MARK BALCH (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 32092 (FUTURE PROJECT TOPICS) Thanks for the suggestion. We'll see whether an interested author can be found for the TI parts. The 68HC11 project is (hopefully!) drawing nearer. If things work out the way I want them to, there will be a 68HC11 project in the first quarter of 1991. Thanks, Curt Msg#:32158 *INK* 08/27/90 10:27:22 From: STEVE CIARCIA To: MARK BALCH (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 32092 (FUTURE PROJECT TOPICS) I haven't mentioned this to Curt yet but it would probably make sense for me to present the 68HC11 project to make sure it gets published. --Steve Msg#:32176 *INK* 08/27/90 19:20:16 From: BOB PADDOCK To: CURT FRANKLIN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 32154 (FUTURE PROJECT TOPICS) I've got one of TI's TMS370 development kits collecting dust here, what can I do with it? The TMS370 looked a lot better to me than the 68HC11, but alas all of our tools are for the 68xxxxx stuff, so thats where we're stuck at. Check out TI's TMS370 BBS (713) 274-3700 lots of neat stuff like a floating point package ect... Msg#:32241 *INK* 08/29/90 22:06:11 From: MARK BALCH To: CURT FRANKLIN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 32154 (FUTURE PROJECT TOPICS) Any hints on what type of project is being designed around the 'HC11? Msg#:32242 *INK* 08/29/90 22:06:58 From: MARK BALCH To: BOB PADDOCK (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 32176 (FUTURE PROJECT TOPICS) How much was the TMS370 development package? I really liked what I saw in the data book they sent me. Bye...Mark Msg#:32243 *INK* 08/29/90 22:07:58 From: MARK BALCH To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 32158 (FUTURE PROJECT TOPICS) I'd welcome you to do an 'HC11 project. Any ideas, or is your solarium getting by on its own? :-) Bye...Mark Msg#:32256 *INK* 08/30/90 08:12:49 From: BOB PADDOCK To: MARK BALCH (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 32242 (FUTURE PROJECT TOPICS) It was $370. Easy to remember for the TMS370 :-) Good thing they didn't call it the TMS37000 :-) Msg#:32294 *INK* 08/31/90 08:54:02 From: CURT FRANKLIN To: MARK BALCH (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 32241 (FUTURE PROJECT TOPICS) The 68HC11 project puts an 'HC11 on a 3.5" x 4.5" board, along with serial and parallel ports, A/D converter, and a fair amount of memory. The bus is the RTC stacking bus, compatible with the 8052 board Jeff presented in his column last year, and the V25 bord he presents in the issue you won't see for another three weeks. The 68HC11 article, by the way, is being written by Steve. Curt Msg#:32300 *INK* 08/31/90 15:03:43 From: STEVE CIARCIA To: MARK BALCH (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 32241 (FUTURE PROJECT TOPICS) The first article isn't a project per se. The article IS the design of the 68HC11 controller board it self. We'll have a BASIC, monitor, and assembler for it too. I have a few project applications in mind for it later. --Steve Msg#:32301 *INK* 08/31/90 15:12:09 From: STEVE CIARCIA To: MARK BALCH (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 32243 (FUTURE PROJECT TOPICS) As far as I remember the RTC-HC11 will have the following on a 3.5 x 4.5" board (some are options): 68HC11A1 11 bits parallel I/O 8-channel 8-bit A/D 512 bytes EEPROM RS232/RS485 serial port watchdog timer 64K RAM/EPROM (32K can be battery-backed RAM) battery-backed clock calendar timer and RAM inside processor +5-volt only Not bad, huh. --Steve Msg#:32329 *INK* 09/01/90 13:02:55 From: MARK BALCH To: BOB PADDOCK (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 32256 (FUTURE PROJECT TOPICS) A bit beyond my R&D budget of below three figures right now! Have some fun with it, I'm curious to see it in a project. Bye...Mark Msg#:32330 *INK* 09/01/90 13:04:10 From: MARK BALCH To: CURT FRANKLIN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 32294 (FUTURE PROJECT TOPICS) Sounds nice. I've never used any package other than a DIP yet, but the HC11 might be a good time to try out a PLCC wrap socket. Bye...Mark Msg#:32331 *INK* 09/01/90 13:05:15 From: MARK BALCH To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 32300 (FUTURE PROJECT TOPICS) Basic and on-board asm? Will source code be provided or just the hex image? I've been itching to make a 68xx controller with Basic and other features for a while now. Bye...Mark Msg#:32489 *INK* 09/07/90 10:16:22 From: STEVE CIARCIA To: MARK BALCH (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 32331 (FUTURE PROJECT TOPICS) Motorola has only given us permission to distribute executable code but the source does exist. We are even thing of masking the basic onto the 68hc11's internal ROM. --STeve Msg#:32516 *INK* 09/08/90 20:03:58 From: MARK BALCH To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 32489 (FUTURE PROJECT TOPICS) You're planning such a large prodution run of your controller? Wow. Msg#:32552 *INK* 09/10/90 10:43:15 From: STEVE CIARCIA To: MARK BALCH (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 32516 (FUTURE PROJECT TOPICS) We wouldn't even design a processor board unless we projected at least 5000 quantity over its life. --Steve Msg#:32668 *INK* 09/15/90 11:15:31 From: MARK BALCH To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 32552 (FUTURE PROJECT TOPICS) Whew, 5K units? That's a long way from quantity 1. :-) Msg#:32705 *INK* 09/17/90 10:22:40 From: STEVE CIARCIA To: MARK BALCH (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 32668 (FUTURE PROJECT TOPICS) We may still design something which will only sell 1000 but 5000 is the goal. ---Steve Msg#:32219 *INK* 08/29/90 00:20:21 From: BOB WILLIAMSON To: JEFF BACHIOCHI (Rcvd) Subj: SCROLLING SIGN I have to design a marquis so your article on the LED scrolling sign was timely to say the least. Basically I need to expand the design size to a 16 ft. x 5 ft. sign. (3 rows of 16 letters or 1920 pixels) and I'm wondering if your design is adaptable to that purpose. After looking at what was available on the market I was amazed at the old technology and high cost ($40K to $80K). Since I have no experience with the RTC52 and it's kin, I have a couple of questions. First, since I have to add a significant number of graphics and fonts, creating several lookup tables, how limiting is the 32K ROM for holding the lookup arrays. Second, I need to substitute incandescent bulbs for the the LED's. Considering the potential gate current from the IC's, what is the largest capacity driver transistor that could be substituted for the PN2222's without using an amplifier. You may have guessed that I searching for a bright, low power bulb. Some of the larger marquis use 200+ amps at 220VAC. That translates to a $500/mo. electric bill. .. THANKS, .. Bob Msg#:32435 *INK* 09/05/90 17:15:06 From: ED NISLEY To: BOB WILLIAMSON Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 32219 (SCROLLING SIGN) I'll throw in a few cents here... The 32K EPROM is probably big enough. For 5x8 characters you need only five bytes per character; a full 256 character table fills 1280 bytes. If you need a "downloadable" chararacter set, it would be better to put a default table in EPROM and copy it into RAM where you can change it on the fly; a 32K RAM will have entirely enough room for that. From what little I know of incandescent displays, you _don't_ use a scanning matrix layout. You hitch each bulb up to a flipflop that's ON when you want light and OFF when you want dark; it's not flipped on and off a zillion times a second! You can't use high current to make up for low duty cycle with a filament! So, therefore, what you're looking at is a bunch of solid-state relays (1920 of them, to be precise!) driven by a bunch of output latches. The 8052 CPU has no drive capability worth mentioning, so you'll need to add a bunch of 8255 (or similar) chips driven from a (well) buffered bus. Using stock SSRs instead of your own transistor circuitry may be somewhat more expensive, but you can then buy SSRs rated for incandescent bulb use; remember that you're going to have to replace some of these things along the way! You could also control an array of 8255s using a "master" 8255 that's connected to the bus. Basically, you load the address and data for one of (many) "slave" 8255s that are connected to the master, then wiggle the control lines to transfer the byte. Given the filament response time, I doubt you'd have any trouble updating the whole display in time. There may be a reason why those commercial systems cost $80K or so... OK, guys, where have I gone wrong? Msg#:32459 *INK* 09/06/90 08:09:46 From: JEFF BACHIOCHI To: BOB WILLIAMSON Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 32219 (SCROLLING SIGN) Bob, Ed has summed it up nicely. With three rows of sixteen characters times five (bytewide) columns for each, that's 240 8-bit latched ports. Working with incandescents is a whole different interface strategy but the 52' has the computing power to do the job. Look at it from a cost/pixel standpoint and you will easily see what kind of moola we're talking! jeff ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Msg#:32326 *INK* 09/01/90 06:53:51 From: PELLERVO KASKINEN To: MARK BALCH (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 32239 (INVERTED VIDEO SIGNAL?) Steve gives the best solution to the power dissipation problem. A switching regulator can be handy and since a few weeks ago, there is even a plug-in replacement for some common 3-terminal regulators in a self-contained form. As I understand, this producer has difficulties in delivering his product. Moreover, it is not quite as much current as you need. The main thing to do for reducing the supply voltage (and thereby the drop over the regulator) is to get a new transformer, with lower secondary voltage. If you do so, you may need to increase the capacitance after the rectifier in order to maintain the bottom of the ripple at about 8 V or higher. Like I said earlier, I can make the necessary calculations and produce an estimate of the feasibility, if you just tell the AC voltage your transformer puts into the rectifier. Oh, is it a center tapped system with just two diodes, or is it a full bridge (4 diodes)? -- PJK Msg#:32335 *INK* 09/01/90 13:14:26 From: MARK BALCH To: PELLERVO KASKINEN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 32326 (INVERTED VIDEO SIGNAL?) Well, the rectifier is the full 4 diode type. I would like to find a solution to keep the LM323 because it is already soldered in with all the power wires and all. If I can find a good sized xfrmr with an 8V secondary I'll go for that. Mine claims to be 12V but is really up there at 15V. Its center tap is just slightly too low to use as the reg's input. Like I said, I am lucky in that I have alot of time until I really have to keep it on for a long time - roughly 4 months. But I would like to start other projects. Re: drop in switcher replacements, I'll check TI's linear devices data book for possibilities. Thanks...Mark Msg#:32356 *INK* 09/02/90 09:46:38 From: PELLERVO KASKINEN To: MARK BALCH (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 32335 (INVERTED VIDEO SIGNAL?) All right, looks like you have the facts right. But what is the size of your capacitor? If you have a really large capacitor, 7.5 V secondary that you appear to have from the center tap would be plenty enough for the LM323. Even better, you could use only two diodes and thereby save about 0.7 V in the drop, if you change into using the center tap as the common. The peak voltage out of the transformer would be 7.5 x 1.4 = 10.6 V. You lose 0.7 V in the single diode, so you still have 9.9 V as the peak on the capacitor. Now, the only thing to check is that you still have 8 V or so at the ripple bottom. At 2 amperes of current and 1.9 V of peak to peak ripple we get C = (I t)/V, where t is the discharge time before the next charging brings in a new peak. Let's say it is about 7.5 milliseconds. Then we get C = 2 x 7.5 / 1.9 millifarads. That is about 8 mF or 8000 uF with a 12 or 15 V voltage rating. Not too uncommon presently! On the other hand, with the 15 V AC that you are using now, you get actually about 15 V of drop over the poor regulator and that means 30 W dissipation, not 20 as I estimated earlier, good grief! -- PJK Msg#:32416 *INK* 09/04/90 20:25:40 From: MARK BALCH To: PELLERVO KASKINEN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 32356 (INVERTED VIDEO SIGNAL?) Gee, I have no room for anything more than 470uF (what I have now). The HCT parts came today, so I'll see how they affect the situation. In a few weeks, after I get the hardware working properly (!), I may rip up the linear power reg and build in a small switcher. This is the last time I use a linear for any load past 1.5A (1.0A?). Thanks...Mark Msg#:32333 *INK* 09/01/90 13:08:20 From: MARK BALCH To: TIMOTHY TAYLOR (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 32264 (INVERTED VIDEO SIGNAL?) I'll see how things go with the 74HC parts. If it still gets too hot, I'll try the parallel resistor in front of the regulator. If not, the LM323 is taking a hike... Thanks. Mark Msg#:32334 *INK* 09/01/90 13:09:50 From: MARK BALCH To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 32303 (INVERTED VIDEO SIGNAL?) It is somehting to definitely think about. I certainly have the time to invest in learning to use switchers. Do you think I could fit one into about 3"x3" of board space? It doesn't have to be terribly efficient, just not bad enough to cause a meltdown. Thanks...Mark Msg#:32490 *INK* 09/07/90 10:22:36 From: STEVE CIARCIA To: MARK BALCH (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 32334 (INVERTED VIDEO SIGNAL?) You should be able to make a 2 amp switcher in a couple cubic inches. --Steve Msg#:32337 *INK* 09/01/90 13:35:39 From: MARK BALCH To: BOB PADDOCK (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 32265 (INVERTED VIDEO SIGNAL?) Really? That is surprising to find out. My major reason in using the HC(T) parts is to get rid of the LS245 and LS373 which use as much as 120ma when they are at hi-z. I remember seeing the HCT245 uses something like 8ma in the National Semi data book. Bye...Mark Msg#:32395 *INK* 09/04/90 07:51:42 From: BOB PADDOCK To: MARK BALCH (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 32337 (INVERTED VIDEO SIGNAL?) In the front of RCA's (Now Harris) High-Speed-CMOS data book there is a good section, with graphs of power consumption versis frequency. If the gate is inactive, or hi-Z, then the HC(T) will belower than the equvelnt LS part. Msg#:32417 *INK* 09/04/90 20:27:27 From: MARK BALCH To: BOB PADDOCK (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 32395 (INVERTED VIDEO SIGNAL?) Well, I have 3 of the buffer chips for each channel that will access the storage RAM and due to the nature of the design, they remain at a certain state for long periods of time. I am hoping that the HCT245 and HCT373 will make a large dent in my power requirements. Bye...Mark Msg#:32329 *INK* 09/01/90 13:02:55 From: MARK BALCH To: BOB PADDOCK (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 32256 (FUTURE PROJECT TOPICS) A bit beyond my R&D budget of below three figures right now! Have some fun with it, I'm curious to see it in a project. Bye...Mark Msg#:32330 *INK* 09/01/90 13:04:10 From: MARK BALCH To: CURT FRANKLIN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 32294 (FUTURE PROJECT TOPICS) Sounds nice. I've never used any package other than a DIP yet, but the HC11 might be a good time to try out a PLCC wrap socket. Bye...Mark Msg#:32331 *INK* 09/01/90 13:05:15 From: MARK BALCH To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 32300 (FUTURE PROJECT TOPICS) Basic and on-board asm? Will source code be provided or just the hex image? I've been itching to make a 68xx controller with Basic and other features for a while now. Bye...Mark Msg#:32489 *INK* 09/07/90 10:16:22 From: STEVE CIARCIA To: MARK BALCH (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 32331 (FUTURE PROJECT TOPICS) Motorola has only given us permission to distribute executable code but the source does exist. We are even thing of masking the basic onto the 68hc11's internal ROM. --STeve Msg#:32516 *INK* 09/08/90 20:03:58 From: MARK BALCH To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 32489 (FUTURE PROJECT TOPICS) You're planning such a large prodution run of your controller? Wow. Msg#:32552 *INK* 09/10/90 10:43:15 From: STEVE CIARCIA To: MARK BALCH (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 32516 (FUTURE PROJECT TOPICS) We wouldn't even design a processor board unless we projected at least 5000 quantity over its life. --Steve Msg#:32668 *INK* 09/15/90 11:15:31 From: MARK BALCH To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 32552 (FUTURE PROJECT TOPICS) Whew, 5K units? That's a long way from quantity 1. :-) Msg#:32705 *INK* 09/17/90 10:22:40 From: STEVE CIARCIA To: MARK BALCH (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 32668 (FUTURE PROJECT TOPICS) We may still design something which will only sell 1000 but 5000 is the goal. ---Steve Msg#:32342 *INK* 09/01/90 17:24:08 From: DAVE EWEN To: ED NISLEY (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 31152 (FIRMWARE FURNACE) Say Ed, I've been thinking about an add-on for your "furnace watcher." Do you think Steve could sight one of his laser diodes through those little holes in the turning disc of an electric meter? The distortion from the glass enclosure is the main problem, I think. Msg#:32433 *INK* 09/05/90 17:13:30 From: ED NISLEY To: DAVE EWEN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 32342 (FIRMWARE FURNACE) You want to figure out how much juice you're using, right? The power company would probably have a conniption when the meter reader found this, ah, widget, glued on their meter bottle. They don't react kindly to things that look like "meter unwinders" (for well and good reason!). Let alone the fact that you've have to build a rather delicate optical gadget to operate _outdoors_ in an unprotected location... Probably not feasible... but it's certainly safer than trying to fit a few current transformers and voltage taps into your main breaker panel! Msg#:32446 *INK* 09/05/90 23:54:39 From: DAVE EWEN To: ED NISLEY (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 32433 (FIRMWARE FURNACE) Yes, the difficulty would be to make it innocent looking, and definitely not touching the meter... Msg#:32452 *INK* 09/06/90 01:38:42 From: DONALD YUNISKIS To: DAVE EWEN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 32342 (FIRMWARE FURNACE) Actually, this is a typical (uninspired) solution used by people like GE, etc. in "computerizing" Watt-Hour meters. Rather than replace the motor (which is what the disk spinner is called) with something (gasp!) electronic, they simply add on a gizmo that watches the disk spin. A notable limitation of such an approach is that it can not accurately track short term peak demands (unless, of course, you've got one s-load of holes in the disk!) BTW, you'd be amazed at some of the characteristics of those mechanical meters (cost, MTBF, accuracy, etc.) Truly remarkable! Msg#:32521 *INK* 09/08/90 23:48:22 From: DAVE EWEN To: DONALD YUNISKIS (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 32452 (FIRMWARE FURNACE) Well, your sample rate would be twice per revolution, which would be rapid enough for most monitoring purposes, I would think. I'll bet they looked into going the "electronic route" before sticking with the mechanical unit, but discarded the idea for very valid reasons... co$t being #1... Msg#:32570 *INK* 09/11/90 09:24:43 From: DONALD YUNISKIS To: DAVE EWEN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 32521 (FIRMWARE FURNACE) Actually, you can perforate the disc many times to achieve higher "resolution". As for sticking with old technology... I sincerely doubt that it was for reasons of cost. Rather, it was probably a case of inertia (primarily psychological -- yet obviously there are historical concerns at work... e.g. a boat-load of data compiled from past experiences with the motor...) and general "conservative" thinking... Msg#:32355 *INK* 09/02/90 01:34:28 From: ANDREW WEBSTER To: ALL Subj: PROJECT IDEAS I had an idea for an add on to the BCC line. How about a video board, say 80x25 text for remote display of data, where an LCD is either too small, or can't hold enough data. I haveworked with the Signetics 2672, 2673, 2674, and 2675 video chips. They are most impressive, either color or monochrome text, with all sorts of attributes (Underline, blinking, double width, etc...) The 2674 supports smooth scrolling as well. I had originally built a circuit for my TRS model 1 a while back using the 2674 & 2675 chips. Andrew Msg#:32375 *INK* 09/02/90 20:16:50 From: PAUL PETERSEN To: ANDREW WEBSTER (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 32355 (PROJECT IDEAS) andrew, a little off the point but i just got off the electronics fido echo and there was a chap who was looking for some model 1 help.. would you be willing to allow him to give you a call.. he's looking for bios listings... paul Msg#:32410 *INK* 09/04/90 09:51:21 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: ANDREW WEBSTER (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 32355 (PROJECT IDEAS) Um, there's been such a beast available for many years now. The TermMite (BCC22) is a complete video display terminal into which you plug a scanned or ASCII keyboard and a composite monitor and you have an 80x25 display. Steve first presented it in the January/February '84 issues of BYTE. Msg#:32835 *INK* 09/22/90 00:20:45 From: ANDREW WEBSTER To: PAUL PETERSEN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 32375 (PROJECT IDEAS) Hi... Sure thing. I have done quite a bit of work on the model 1 (it was a while ago, but I have amassed a fair bit of literature on it.) Including a very extensive list of the ROM code. I can be reached at 514-937-9963 after 7pm EST. Andrew Msg#:32839 *INK* 09/22/90 00:54:34 From: PAUL PETERSEN To: ANDREW WEBSTER (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 32835 (PROJECT IDEAS) thanks andrew, i'll pass it along to the fellow... can't find the name right now... its in the heap somewhere tho... cheers, Msg#:32363 *INK* 09/02/90 15:18:11 From: STEVE BUNCH To: TOM BURKE Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 31882 (COMPUTER-GENERATED HOLOGRAMS) Tom, I haven't posted the program, but would be glad to do so. It requires a public-domain skeleton called Transkel which is rather large, so what I'd prefer to do is post only my addition to Transkel and include information to get Transkel from the authors or another bboard. I did port the core of the code to a UNIX system, less any display production, and could post that if anyone wanted it. I haven't tried printing the result to a Laserprinter, but it would probably work reasonably well. Since I didn't write the code to work that way (I save the entire computed floating point array so it is easy to do a screen refresh - not necessary when printing to a laserprinter), you'd have to modify it somewhat. Not hard, really. I was eventually going to try it, but haven't gotten around to it. I have noticed that the Laserprinter we use at work isn't always consistent in feeding the paper linearly, so you might have slight longitudinal distortion on a large run. Still well worth trying; there was a letter in the last CCC from some guys who did it successfully. I will try to get the code together a little bit and download it soon. Steve Msg#:32364 *INK* 09/02/90 15:34:26 From: STEVE BUNCH To: DALE NASSAR (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 31899 (COMPUTER-GENERATED HOLOGRAMS) Dale, I'd be happy to send you a couple of them. I've started mounting them in Pako slide mounts (cheap plastic ones I had left over from old days when I was developing my own color film), which makes them easy to work with. The pixels are extremely sharp, and ther is very little noise anywhere near them. You can give me a call sometime or post your mailing address. (My home phone is 217-344-0456, work 217-384-8515). Making a complex image sounds like a worthy project. I'll be glad to help. I have access to large amounts of compute power (I work for a part of Motorola that makes computers) that goes to waste at nights and on weekends, and have friends at the University of Illinois who do graphics for a living. They have a Connection Machine, and (though the amount of available time without hard $$$ is limited), a couple of Crays. I haven't tried bleaching yet. Have been very busy at work, traveling a lot, and haven't had time. That's one of the next experiments to try, though. I have been researching computer-generated holograms at the University library. Found a flurry of activity in the late 60's and early 70's. Two items in particular are interesting: "Synthetic Binary-Phase Holograms", by Raynaud Henton, (MS thesis, 1973), and "Synthetic Real and Imaginary Holograms", by Russell Singleton (MS thesis, 1973). Both build on work written up in "Computeeneration and reconstruction of Holograms", by Lesem, Hirsch, aand Jordan (two papers, 1967 and 1968). I'm building a mini-bibliography of these. All these guys use the same basic approach: compute the fourier transform of the desired image and plot that, then display it. I'm rusty enough on Fourier transforms that it's been very slow going for me, but I'm beginning to get into it. I'll try to post the missing part of 31583 as a reply to it. It was probably too long. Steve Msg#:32365 *INK* 09/02/90 15:39:29 From: STEVE BUNCH To: STEVE BUNCH (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 31583 (COMPUTER GENERATED HOLOGRAMS) (This is a lost portion of the message it's a reply to - Steve) NOW, the interesting part is that doing all the above to the program speeded it up by a factor of only two or so above the performance when there were two 'sin's, a 'cos', and a 'sqrt' in the loop. This had me really worried that I'd done something gravely silly for a while. It turns out that my Mac uses the Motorola 68882 floating point chip. Think C (with appropriate guidance) generates the 68882 instructions inline, and the 68882 just plain does those functions FAST! I was very impressed. I had also considered the approach Richard Brown suggested of precomputing the wavefront from one point and adding them in, but didn't have enough memory for the entire table. (I was trying to figure out how to do it that way for the Connection Machine, but it doesn't have much memory per CPU.) Richard's simple observation that all the quadrants are identical is clearly true, and taking that into account, my Mac has enough memory to do it. Basically, that turns the above loop into a simple floating point or scaled integer summation, which should be materially faster. I'll probably try that now. Have tried some experiments with directly generating holograms by evaluating the Fourier transforms of line segments, as per the Am. J. Phys. article I referenced earlier. The original article used a rectangular "pixel" plotted on a pen plotter. Inside each of these pixels, a black mark was drawn. The width of the black mark determined the amount of light that got through, and was determined by the amplitude of the Fourier function at that point. The mark's vertical position was determined by the phase. Since I didn't want to give up so many screen pixels, I've tried plotting the amplitude only, at each screen pixel location. This figure looks superficially like the one in the article, so the arithmetic is apparently right, but I haven't produced an image yet. Will play some more as I get time. Well, thanks again for the article. I bought the reprint, which includes a lot more explanation and detail, and I'd like to recommend it to anyone who liked the article. (unsolicited testimonial) Steve Msg#:32369 *INK* 09/02/90 18:10:07 From: JOHN WINANS To: ALL Subj: DC MOTOR CONTROL USING TRIACS I am using triacs to run DC motors. I use a single triac, feed it with AC from a step down transformer, and trigger it at different points in the wave to privide 1/2 wave rectified voltage to the motor. I adjust its speed by delaying its trigger from the zero crossing points. Its direction is controlled by the polarity of the wave that it is triggered in. I'm sure this is going to cause more noise then a slot car set on my nice clean AC when I start up a dozen of them. But right now I'd be happy to get 1 to work. I'm using a circuit right out of the Optoelectronics Device Data book from Motorola. It's similar to the one drawn on page 60 of Issue 15 of CCI (June/July 1990). I seem to be geting some noise on the trigger of the power triac causing it to occasionally fire at rather inconvenient times (during the opposite phase I am currently trying to use). It looks like the MOC3010 that I am using to fire it is passing *creating* the signal. I can see the trigger voltage very present coming out of the MOC3010. I've tried part swapping... Anybody got any ideas??? P.S. I have spent over 10 years playing around with controlling circuits for motors and lights and I have NEVER found a nice source of information on dealing with analog noise that is so very present in the real world. Any book references would be appreciated. Msg#:32376 *INK* 09/02/90 20:23:29 From: PAUL PETERSEN To: JOHN WINANS (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 32369 (DC MOTOR CONTROL USING TRIACS) john, the best book for scr's and control circuitry is the GE manual....General Electric SCR and TRIAC Manual... have'nt seen one in years tho since i read it for talking books... if you can locate one its invaluable.... paul Msg#:32663 *INK* 09/15/90 07:38:34 From: PELLERVO KASKINEN To: JOHN WINANS Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 32369 (DC MOTOR CONTROL USING TRIACS) You already got a suggestion about one of the two books that I also regard highly in this area. The other one is the SCR book of Westinghouse (of course, given that the first one was by GE!). As to the problem of firing without your command, I think it is again due to the eternal enemy of a hobbyist: You most likely do not have proper snubbers (resistor in series with a capacitor) over the line and/or the triac or the trigger device. It is the rate of rise in the voltage that causes a triggering. If you use a transformer to supply your load, you might even put something like a 1 microfarad capacitor (AC type) over the secondary of the transformer. I think what I am using in one of my designs, is MOC3030, so I am not 100% sure about the potential of changing components in your case, but I am convinced that many applications also suffer from too low a voltage rating component selection. Some components rated 120 V AC use are in my opinion only reliable to 60 V. I generally try to give more voltage safety margin, i.e. select a component for 220 V use instead... -- PJK Msg#:32380 *INK* 09/03/90 01:35:19 From: MARC DAVID BUMBLE To: CURT FRANKLIN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 32201 (SCSI INTERFACE) Thanks for the response, Im still going at this code and the article project and the frustration continues. Ive tried modifying the code following the DAQ3000 project which was previously published but to no avail. The normal SCSI Toolbox routines in the Macintosh do get the interface to reset, and select, but the problems start there. Please keep me posted, I haven't lost interest but I have started course work for a Masters. Sincereley Marc Bumble. PS I am attempting to generate the project code using Think C's assembly language compiler. Any help from Jim would be greatly appreciated. Msg#:32389 *INK* 09/04/90 02:18:24 From: FRANK HENRIQUEZ To: MARC DAVID BUMBLE (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 32380 (SCSI INTERFACE) Marc: You'll probably have to modify the source code for the DAQ3000; it's not very robust code - you may want to follow some of the source code from Apple, or just give it a try yourself, following the example in Inside Macintosh (vol 4). Other than software errors, make sure that the DAQ3000 does not have a SCSI address higher than the SCSI address of your hard disk - the Mac will try to boot from the DAQ3000 - and make sure that it's not set to SCSI address 7. Also, make sure you have the system properly terminated - only the last device (excluding the Mac) should be terminated. Good luck! Msg#:32638 *INK* 09/13/90 22:42:45 From: MARC DAVID BUMBLE To: FRANK HENRIQUEZ (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 32389 (SCSI INTERFACE) Frank: I have been checking out the DAQ3000 project for 2 weeks now and I dont see how the SCSI target's address is set to 4. I dont have a good feeling about this project either, and Im not sure I am willing to sink more money into it until I think it will work. Have you attempted to build this one? I am contacting NCR to see if they will send me any info on a MAC SCSI hardware interface for the SCSI chips. I already have some samples and have attempted to communicate from my Mac to the chip unsucessfully. Setting the SCSI ID is no easy task. Internal registers in the chip must be set and I havent been able to to this by probing the chip register pins. Please write me back as to whether you, or anyone else for that matter has attempted the DAQ3000 project. I have written an editor in Lightspeed C (Think C) which uses the Macintosh toolbox routines. It has some bugs which need working out and is about 15 pages long. I would like to release it on a Bulliten board or in an article, but I need to apply for patents first I think. Anyways please write me If you make any progress with the SCSI system. Thanks Marc Bumble. PS has anyone as SYSOP heard from Jim MacArthur on the "SCSI to anything interface"? Has anyone else attempted it? Beware if you do, I still think it has design problems and major software problems. Msg#:32660 *INK* 09/14/90 23:12:36 From: FRANK HENRIQUEZ To: MARC DAVID BUMBLE (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 32638 (SCSI INTERFACE) I haven't tried building either SCSI article, but I've been thinking about it (I'm trying to put together a NuBus card, though, and THAT is a nightmare). I'm looking at the DAQ3000 article and, by golly, there doesn't seem to be a hardware switch to set the SCSI address! the on board 6502 must be setting the address. It would be nice it it polled a set of dip switches for the address, though. The Mac's SCSI side is fairly simple - the problem obviously lies in the DAQ3000. As for the SCSI to anything interface, it does have a hardware SCSI address setting. It also looks like a simpler circuit, therefore, you have a better chance at getting it to work. The Mac code is not very robust, and could use some work. As for your editor - what kind of editor is it? text editors for the Mac are a dime a dozen...if you're worried about getting credit for it, copywright it. Msg#:33052 *INK* 09/27/90 21:15:30 From: MARC DAVID BUMBLE To: FRANK HENRIQUEZ (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 32660 (SCSI INTERFACE) Beware of the DAQ3000 SCSI address setting. I seriously doubt that the 6502 is setting the SCSI address. In NCR's 5380 chip description book there is an example of a 6502 micro wired to a 5380 chip. In that example, the SCSI address is explicitly set using dip switches and a LS244. In the DAQ3000 article the SCSI 5380 chip must communicate with the 6502 BEFORE the 6502's code is even downloaded. There is something a little disturbing about this fact. Also the SCSI to anything interface seems to have both hardware and software flaws. I have temporarily given up on that project and am attempting to wire up a 53C80 chip on a breadboard to test the chips. Msg#:32435 *INK* 09/05/90 17:15:06 From: ED NISLEY To: BOB WILLIAMSON Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 32219 (SCROLLING SIGN) I'll throw in a few cents here... The 32K EPROM is probably big enough. For 5x8 characters you need only five bytes per character; a full 256 character table fills 1280 bytes. If you need a "downloadable" chararacter set, it would be better to put a default table in EPROM and copy it into RAM where you can change it on the fly; a 32K RAM will have entirely enough room for that. From what little I know of incandescent displays, you _don't_ use a scanning matrix layout. You hitch each bulb up to a flipflop that's ON when you want light and OFF when you want dark; it's not flipped on and off a zillion times a second! You can't use high current to make up for low duty cycle with a filament! So, therefore, what you're looking at is a bunch of solid-state relays (1920 of them, to be precise!) driven by a bunch of output latches. The 8052 CPU has no drive capability worth mentioning, so you'll need to add a bunch of 8255 (or similar) chips driven from a (well) buffered bus. Using stock SSRs instead of your own transistor circuitry may be somewhat more expensive, but you can then buy SSRs rated for incandescent bulb use; remember that you're going to have to replace some of these things along the way! You could also control an array of 8255s using a "master" 8255 that's connected to the bus. Basically, you load the address and data for one of (many) "slave" 8255s that are connected to the master, then wiggle the control lines to transfer the byte. Given the filament response time, I doubt you'd have any trouble updating the whole display in time. There may be a reason why those commercial systems cost $80K or so... OK, guys, where have I gone wrong? Msg#:32459 *INK* 09/06/90 08:09:46 From: JEFF BACHIOCHI To: BOB WILLIAMSON Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 32219 (SCROLLING SIGN) Bob, Ed has summed it up nicely. With three rows of sixteen characters times five (bytewide) columns for each, that's 240 8-bit latched ports. Working with incandescents is a whole different interface strategy but the 52' has the computing power to do the job. Look at it from a cost/pixel standpoint and you will easily see what kind of moola we're talking! jeff Msg#:32449 *INK* 09/06/90 01:07:12 From: DONALD YUNISKIS To: ED NISLEY (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 32209 (ASTERISKS) Agreed! That's why I tend to put a legend on my schem's... can't tell the players w/o a program! Also get pretty annoyed with CAD packages that can't handle the funky characters in signal names and/or truncate signal names at some (ALWAYS too short!) length so SYSTEM_DATA_00 and SYSTEM_DATA_01 (etc) all end up being interpreted as SYSTEM_DAT (e.g.) I really wish the clowns that wrote the software (readthat as _ANY_ software) would actually take the time (read as "be given the time") to USE their abortions to actually appreciate the problems REAL users will encounter! Msg#:32492 *INK* 09/07/90 14:38:55 From: ED NISLEY To: DONALD YUNISKIS (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 32449 (ASTERISKS) Ah, but we users are such a screwy bunch that the designers would never _dream_ of using their creation as we do! Being on both sides of the fence, I can argue either way. No matter what limits you put on the program, somebody will chew you out for cramping his style... but if you don't put reasonable bounds on the problem, you'll never get the program out the door. Got a project like that right now, more's the pity... Msg#:32502 *INK* 09/07/90 23:42:38 From: DONALD YUNISKIS To: ED NISLEY (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 32492 (ASTERISKS) Unfortunately, often the code won't even behave properly _given the published examples supplied by the VENDOR_! C'mon, there's no excuse for *that*! And it seems like most vendors/developers get this "attitude problem" when you prove to them that they're wrong... Msg#:32450 *INK* 09/06/90 01:09:44 From: DONALD YUNISKIS To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 32161 (PRACTICAL ALGORITHMS COLUMN #1) What are your terms/conditions? Give me a ring-a-ling... (P.S. I notice they've finally finished The Vernon International Airport! ;-> ) Msg#:32451 *INK* 09/06/90 01:24:22 From: DONALD YUNISKIS To: ED NISLEY (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 32208 (EFFICIENT PROGRAMMING) First things first... don't use anything with the "M" word... talk about trash... 2500AD's products are reasonable (tho' not optimized) in price performance and MOST OF ALL ... SUPPORT! Congrats to Ray for standing behind his work! National had a real charmer with their 320xx series compilers... tremendous optimizers! I found most of the optimizer's output to be on a par with hand coded routines... withOUT the time required to code by hand! Unfortunately, National is notoriously inept/unfortunate/etc. when it comes to marketing processors... better stick to linears, NSC! Too bad, the 320xx was one of the few GOOD products in the processor arena (given time, INTEL may get to where the 320xx was years ago!) One notable comment re: the "two years" syndrome... crank up the clock and spend a few extra bucks on hardware to make the software easier. Then, let technological advances reduce the cost of your hardware and increase the performance of your software. I'm working on a 64180 based product right now and have found that my productivity increase due to the use of HLL has allowed me to generate as much "code" (i.e. rom image) in the last month as in the 6 preceding. Granted, it's not as efficient as assy but we're looking for long term savings on development of related products as well as product maintenance ('course the portability issues don't hurt!) As such, I'll probably have a code image in the 190K region (I'm at 80, now) in another month or so! AND, it won't be a "one-of-a-kind" product (i.e. reusable software). Msg#:32493 *INK* 09/07/90 14:39:32 From: ED NISLEY To: DONALD YUNISKIS (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 32451 (EFFICIENT PROGRAMMING) Ah, but when the compiler hands you a 35K 8031 program to fit in your 32K ROM, you've got _big_ problems. That's the crux of the issue: for small problems, think small; for big problems, get a real computer! But, somehow, we make it work, right? Msg#:32503 *INK* 09/07/90 23:45:11 From: DONALD YUNISKIS To: ED NISLEY (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 32493 (EFFICIENT PROGRAMMING) I don't advocate being "sloppy"... but, getting 10 lbs in a 5 lb bag is what makes it engineering instead of "programming"... learning when to make which tradeoffs... As for "somehow making it work"... well, so far... ]:-> Msg#:32619 *INK* 09/13/90 11:39:14 From: ED NISLEY To: DONALD YUNISKIS (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 32503 (EFFICIENT PROGRAMMING) The best definition of an engineer I've seen is that he's (we're typically male, more's the pity) someone who can design a five-dollar product with two bucks of stuff. That's $5 selling price... meaning everybody else thinks it's worth more than it cost to build. Anybody can build a five-dollar product with five bucks of stuff... it's getting more out of less that makes it all worthwhile. Msg#:32627 *INK* 09/13/90 13:00:00 From: DONALD YUNISKIS To: ED NISLEY (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 32619 (EFFICIENT PROGRAMMING) Actually, DM+DL must be $2... there's a difference! ;-) Msg#:32600 *INK* 09/12/90 13:35:00 From: RANDALL JENKINS To: CURT FRANKLIN (Rcvd) Subj: NEW PRODUCTS IN ISSUE 16 The Issue in question list a phone number for the Colorburst SV1000 video digitizer. This phone number (603) 432-2001 has been disconnected. Does anyone know if the company and the product still exists? I am interested in purchasing one (if the demo disk shows off satisfactory features and functions). Msg#:32658 *INK* 09/14/90 22:40:10 From: WILLIAM D. ELKINS To: RANDALL JENKINS (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 32600 (NEW PRODUCTS IN ISSUE 16) Randall, I purchased the SV-1000 Board several months ago. The documentation that came with it gives the phone number as 1-603-891-1588. Be advised that the board is NOT a frame grabber. Bill Elkins Msg#:32656 *INK* 09/14/90 14:22:37 From: DAVID YOUNG To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: NEURAL NETS.. Hi Steve, a while back your brother wrote (in CC Ink) about neural nets and he mentioned a short course that he took on the subject. Would you happen to know offhand the name of the course and the teacher, or better yet does your brother call here so I can ask him directly? Thanks in advance --->Dave Young Msg#:32704 *INK* 09/17/90 10:20:59 From: STEVE CIARCIA To: DAVID YOUNG (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 32656 (NEURAL NETS..) He doesn't call here because of the connection costs but you can still reach him. Look for the ads from Tardis Systems and call there for him. --Steve Msg#:32670 *INK* 09/15/90 11:17:38 From: MARK BALCH To: CURT FRANKLIN (Rcvd) Subj: INK ISSUES? Hi Curt, has there been any delay in the INK delivery? My last issue was #15: June/July and by now I'd expect the Aug/Sept issue. Is this a personal problem? Thanks. Bye...Mark Msg#:32710 *INK* 09/17/90 11:37:10 From: ED NISLEY To: MARK BALCH (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 32670 (INK ISSUES?) Yup, it's a personal problem. You've probably noticed that you're not getting much other mail, either. Shortly, all your credit cards will stop working and your phone won't ring. Then, you'll find that you can't place outgoing calls. Your AC power will go off, and the TV cable will emit only noise. Don't even think of trying that old antenna. Finally, there will be no light outside your window... no matter what time it is. INK is always ahead of the rest, you know... Msg#:32735 *INK* 09/18/90 08:45:34 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: MARK BALCH (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 32670 (INK ISSUES?) I have to apologize for Ed. It's that time of the month... ;-) We're almost ready to start mailing issue 17, so your issue 16 is off in the wild blue yonder somewhere. Call (203) 875-2199 and tell the nice lady what you told us. Msg#:32853 *INK* 09/22/90 14:07:50 From: MARK BALCH To: ED NISLEY (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 32710 (INK ISSUES?) Ah, so that explains those strange happenings around here lately! :-) Msg#:32854 *INK* 09/22/90 14:08:52 From: MARK BALCH To: KEN DAVIDSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 32735 (INK ISSUES?) Okay, thanks. Is there an address to write as well? I do my best to keep the phone bill down until I can take it as a business expense. :-) Bye...Mark Msg#:32873 *INK* 09/23/90 05:07:55 From: FRANK KUECHMANN To: KEN DAVIDSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 32735 (INK ISSUES?) Either it's that time or maybe Ed's been watching too many 'Twilight Zone' reruns on the telly. Msg#:32897 *INK* 09/24/90 07:46:21 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: FRANK KUECHMANN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 32873 (INK ISSUES?) Don't forget: Ed doesn't own a telly, so that can't be it. Gee, maybe we should make a contest out of this... ;-) I'm only joking Ed...no, wait...no...aaaargh... Msg#:32898 *INK* 09/24/90 07:47:55 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: MARK BALCH (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 32854 (INK ISSUES?) Just look in the front of any issue of INK you have. In any case, you can write to Circuit Cellar INK, 4 Park St. Suite 20, Vernon, CT 06066. Msg#:33102 *INK* 10/02/90 05:36:18 From: FRANK KUECHMANN To: KEN DAVIDSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 32897 (INK ISSUES?) what? No telly? Maybe _that's_ the problem right there. Msg#:33286 *INK* 10/06/90 13:30:06 From: MARK BALCH To: KEN DAVIDSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 32898 (INK ISSUES?) Ken, I made a mistake. My wonderful counting ability placed issue #14 behind issue #13 instead of in front of it so that when Issue #15 arived I saw that issue #14 "had not arrived." Thanks! Mark Msg#:32677 *INK* 09/16/90 00:55:47 From: BRIAN O'CONNELL To: CURT FRANKLIN (Rcvd) Subj: STUFF May I so humbly suggest a set of parallel tutorials ; one on C, the other on Forth. The context would be something like embedded/RT control. I have played w/Forth off & on for a few years, but am not allowed to use at work. I have been trying to learn C for the past 6 months. Currnetly use (please keep the laughter to a min) Turbo Pascal with an occasional assembly snippet. Am I missing anything by not being able to code my hardware like the "big boys"? If I am, perhaps there are others out there in CCI-land that could use a several issue tutorial where the code development is tied to a real live piece of hardware. Msg#:32713 *INK* 09/17/90 12:40:29 From: CURT FRANKLIN To: BRIAN O'CONNELL (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 32677 (STUFF) We have looked at the notion of language tutorials several times in the past, and we'll consider them again. Software is an increasingly important part of total system design, and we'll do our best to help our readers improve their skills and tools in software, as well as in hardware. Curt Msg#:32840 *INK* 09/22/90 01:00:15 From: PAUL PETERSEN To: BRIAN O'CONNELL (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 32677 (STUFF) brian, c is'nt any harder than basic, actually its easier... what i do tho is ignore most of the conventional structures like Case and struct and malloc et all.. a libral use of subroutines complete with goto's eliminates a lot of head scratching and results in programs that work, albiet not elegant.... at the moment i'm working on an rs232 interface to control model railroads ect...the software, in C, is the easiest part... cheers Msg#:32930 *INK* 09/25/90 00:39:11 From: PAUL SHUBEL To: BRIAN O'CONNELL (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 32677 (STUFF) Brian, C is not the "end all" in programming languages. It mainly caught on in PC developement because the PC XT was slow and C allowed "assembler-like" optimizations for speed. Believe me no one would ever consider programming the space shuttle in C. Did you know that most programming is done in COBOL and RPG? Again, C maintains a foothold because minicomputer makers and their software developers are always trying to squeeze out the last ounce of performance out of their machines for marketing reasons. C allows manual (human programmer) optimizations that are necessary when machines are compared by a few percentage points. In the realtime controler world, programming will actually be moving away from C (and assembly) to Basic and Modulo-2. Micro-controlers hardware is so fast now (witness V25, 8096,68HC11) that we can pretty much afford the luxury of programming in an abstract language. Whew, I am glad I got that off my chest. Have a nice day. Msg#:32951 *INK* 09/25/90 09:05:05 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: PAUL SHUBEL (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 32930 (STUFF) I'd really like to see how you support your assertion that embedded controller programming is moving away from C and toward BASIC and Modula-2. We've been selling controllers which use BASIC for years, and if anything, we're seeing a trend away from BASIC toward assembly and C. I don't think Modula-2 will ever figure into the picture. I personally think it is far superior to BASIC, Pascal, and C for structured programming, but all of the compilers I've seen produce memory-hungry code and there aren't all that many compilers out there to begin with. BASIC compilers are starting to become more popular to increase the speed of BASIC programs, but there are so many C compilers and tools out there, and more people are using the language, that it is becoming more popular. Indeed, most of my efforts in setting up support for the RTC-V25 board have been centered around C support. There just aren't any decent BASICs out there for the 8086 that easily support ROMed code (at least none that I've found), and all the support currently on the market for ROMed code is revolving around C. Msg#:33174 *INK* 10/03/90 23:41:23 From: PAUL SHUBEL To: KEN DAVIDSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 32951 (STUFF) Ken, to clarify I suggest that embedded software tasks carried out by teams of programmers will eventually move away from C. Do you dis-agree with my assessment as to why "C" became popular on PC hardware? When a I agree with you that SMALL home-brewed applications will always be dominated by what is available for a reasonable price etc... But I disagree with your worry about "memory hungry" compilers. I just got a quote (100pcs) for a 128K X 8 STATIC RAM for $11.00 a piece, not to mention EPROM price-per-bit. With the move to controllers like the V25 does it really matter whether the code takes 32K or 96K?. Msg#:33186 *INK* 10/04/90 08:51:23 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: PAUL SHUBEL (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 33174 (STUFF) I didn't have a problem with the fact that compilers are coming on strong while assembly language is becoming less popular. I agree that with the coming of small controllers like the RTC-V25, memory considerations become less important. An 8031 board with 32K of EPROM is real confining when trying to write code with a compiler; just ask Ed. The RTC-V25 board, with 256K of EPROM, doesn't present such problems. The item I took issue with you on, though, is your assertion that the trend is away from C and toward Modula-2 and BASIC. Virtually all the Locate utilities on the market today support both Microsoft and Turbo C, with anywhere from marginal to no support for other languages. If demand drives the market, C is the clear choice when a compiler is being used. We don't deal with "small home-brew applications." We deal with professional engineers who are building microcontrollers into factory automation or data collection equipment. Teams of programmers usually go hand-in-hand with full-blown desktop computers or minicomputers and not microcontrollers. Msg#:33193 *INK* 10/04/90 11:48:50 From: BOB PADDOCK To: PAUL SHUBEL (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 33174 (STUFF) I disagree with your disagreement. $11.00 is to much money to spend compared to not needing it all [$11.00 * 100 = $1100 worth of inventory to track and tax]. Where do I get the PCB space and the power to run these things? If it can be done in 32K then there is no reason to do it in 96K except for being sloppy. When any high level language can produce code for some thing like the 8748 or the 68HC05J1 parts that have 1K of (E)PROM and a few bytes of RAM then they will be worth considering for use in the Real World. The Office environment type of thinking (8086, V25 ect, lots of space, clean power, nice temp range) just doesn't cut it. Msg#:32707 *INK* 09/17/90 10:34:05 From: STEVE CIARCIA To: PAUL JOHNSON Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 27401 (INFRARED REMOTE CONTROL SIGNAL REP) When you send a message to "ALL" you can't expect a reply from anyone specifically and I may not ever even see it. Regarding your questions, yeah there is a typo. If I remember correctly, the 2.7K should be in series with the 9V battery as if the 9V were applied at the junction of the 510K and 2.7K resistors. The circuit still works as is but pulls more current. The numbers on the diodes I used were BP186S, I would expect the ones you chose would also work. Sensitivity can be adjusted by the value of the 510K resistor. --Steve Msg#:32731 *INK* 09/18/90 08:26:50 From: KEN MUNKHOLM To: CURT FRANKLIN (Rcvd) Subj: HUFFMAN In Chris's image compression artical in issue 16 of INK, reference number three was "A method for the construction of minimum redundancy codes". How can I get a copy of this reference? Should I contact NTIS? Thanks, ken Msg#:32742 *INK* 09/18/90 10:20:37 From: CURT FRANKLIN To: KEN MUNKHOLM (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 32731 (HUFFMAN) That reference doesn't look like an NTIS publication...my suggestion would be to contact the library at your nearest large engineering school. They should be able to help you with a copy of the article. CUrt Msg#:32828 *INK* 09/21/90 14:05:28 From: JORDAN HARALAMPOPOULOS To: CURT FRANKLIN (Rcvd) Subj: LETTER FROM DICK DASIN I just got the Oct/Nov CCI mag and I saw the letter from D. Dasinger Bismark, ND. Well there is a way to convert monochrome TTL output to composite (that would make his Herc card do what he wants). The circuit to do this trick was published in Micro Cornucopia #53, May 90 pp70-72. That was the last issue of microC (sigh!). I don't now how to reach Dick but I hope that you can. Keep the great work up....... Bye Jordan Msg#:32861 *INK* 09/22/90 22:57:36 From: SANJAYA VATUK To: ED NISLEY (Rcvd) Subj: DALLAS ECONORAM Just a note regarding the Dallas DS2222 EconoRam - this is not non-volatile ram, but very low-powered. It looks like it'll run about a million years on an AA battery, tho. Interestingly, max VCC is only 4 volts. And if you thought the NMC9346 was complicated - look out. I took one look at the data sheet and threw the chip into a drawer until I have some _really_ free time! I notice you've been using a lot of baby macros (CJBE, etc.) Have you thought about posting some of your favorites? What's AddDPTR? ClrPBit? Always curious, --Sanj Msg#:32955 *INK* 09/25/90 10:21:21 From: ED NISLEY To: SANJAYA VATUK (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 32861 (DALLAS ECONORAM) Yeah, I should have mentioned that you need a battery. Wonder how one of those 5-farad capacitors would work in this application? The DS2223 has a higher supply voltage rating if you really need it. I'd thought of using a DS2222 in the Furnace Firmware project but decided to go with a more readily available part. All those macros are tucked away in the various MACROS.INC files in the Firmware Furnace column files on this very BBS. How's that for snappy service? The later ones have more goodies, as MACROS.INC is an ongoing collection of "useful tools" for 8031 projects. I certainly didn't sit down and write every macro I'd need for the next 5 years! AddDPTR adds an 8-bit thing onto the 16 bits in DPTR. It's handy for stepping through tables. There are a few other macros that simplify table operations, too. Msg#:33066 *INK* 09/28/90 08:45:25 From: SANJAYA VATUK To: ED NISLEY (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 32955 (DALLAS ECONORAM) Aaah. I will download them toute su /ite! / / /Thanx -- Sanj Msg#:33069 *INK* 09/28/90 09:10:29 From: JEFF BACHIOCHI To: SANJAYA VATUK (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 33066 (DALLAS ECONORAM) Sanj, Don says hello! jeff Msg#:33218 *INK* 10/04/90 23:03:09 From: SANJAYA VATUK To: JEFF BACHIOCHI (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 33069 (DALLAS ECONORAM) Ooops! I forgot to tell you HE said hello when I saw him back in August. They say the short-term memory is the first to go. Msg#:32884 *INK* 09/23/90 21:23:24 From: DALE NASSAR To: ED NISLEY (Rcvd) Subj: STANDARD DATA FORMATS Ed, I was glad to hear that you plan to do a tutorial article on the Intel HEX format used by EPROM programmers. I have always used binary--what you see is what you get--for my EPROM applications. Since I am now working with microcontrollers and other programmable devices, I need to become familiar with some of the "standards". My interest was renewed by the BBS thread in CCI #15 about Intel HEX. However, I have not been able to find any good detailed information on the subject. Since it will be a while before your article surfaces, I did a little EPROM file snooping to try to figure out things. A few questions come up: I downloaded the HAL4 file BIO31V10.HEX the first line was hex :10000000120091308DFDC2B000D2B0C28C758CC888 with the 0D0A control codes at the end of each line and the file size was 896 bytes. Where does 896 come from? Adding up each character and the 17 sets of 0D0A and assuming one byte/char still doesn't quite add up. When I store a binary file from a 2764 EPROM the file size is simply 8192 bytes. Also Ken mentioned that the last number in the line (88h) is a checksum; when I do the sequential addition MOD-16 I keep coming up with 80h. BTW this is my first time fooling with any kind of checksums. Next I pulled the 27C64A EPROM out of my HAL4 board and read it into a binary disk file--when I displayed the contents I got one 256-byte block with you and Steve and some copyright info. The rest of the 32 blocks read all FF's. Where's the beef? It's one of those days, I guess. --Dale PS Any plans for JEDEC or GERBER? Msg#:32956 *INK* 09/25/90 10:22:07 From: ED NISLEY To: DALE NASSAR (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 32884 (STANDARD DATA FORMATS) The capsule summary: The length applies only to the data field, so there will be 2xlength characters plus two characters each for the length, type, and checksum fields, plus four characters for the address, plus another three characters for the colon and CR/LF. You will probably have a hex 1A at the end of the file, too. The checksum applies to the binary bytes you get from converting all the other hex fields; add 'em up and complement (subtract from zero) the result. The low byte is the checksum you convert to a pair of ASCII hexits and stick into the outgoing line. When you receive a line, all the hex fields should add up to zero! If you look _real_ carefully at the HAL-4 EPROM image, you'll see a little junk just before and just after the ASCII copyright message. That's the whole program! That's the advantage of the Intel HEX format: the HEX file contains only the data to be programmed into the EPROM. The data goes all the way up to 10F (more or less, I'm doing this by rebuilding the file and it may not match what's actually in the EPROM for all the usual reasons), and the HEX file is all of 674 bytes long... better than a full 8K! Msg#:32928 *INK* 09/24/90 21:49:35 From: BRIAN HARTSON To: MARK BALCH (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 30565 (X10 TRANCEIVER MODULES) mark take a look at the july-aug 1988 issue of popular electronics and some back issues of byte where steve designs a current carrier modem the issues of (sorry ) radio electronics show the design of a pair of 9600 buad currenr carrier modems, they should adapt right well to that kind of project, or look at a project in a later 1990 issue of popular/radio electronics that deals with extending your audio electronic (tv,vcr,stereo) by using simple current carrier circuits. Msg#:33287 *INK* 10/06/90 13:31:33 From: MARK BALCH To: BRIAN HARTSON Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 32928 (X10 TRANCEIVER MODULES) Sounds interesting. Which issues of R-E are those 9600 bps current carrier modems featured in? I don't like that magazine, but I would take a 5 minute walk to my library to check it out. Thanks...Mark Msg#:33365 *INK* 10/08/90 10:58:58 From: STEVE CIARCIA To: MARK BALCH (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 33287 (X10 TRANCEIVER MODULES) Just for the record, we have done lots of experiments around here on carrier current stuff and I wouldn't give you much for the RE design. --Steve Msg#:33573 *INK* 10/13/90 12:34:55 From: MARK BALCH To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 33365 (X10 TRANCEIVER MODULES) I thought as much. I find R-E good for a flip-through in the library every few months but usually not for much more. Bye...Mark Msg#:32937 *INK* 09/25/90 01:21:45 From: PAUL SHUBEL To: ALL Subj: V25 Does anyone know how the V25 compares to the V20 at the same clock speed. I know that the V25 has a 2-clock bus cycle, but how does it affect performance. Is the V25 10,20, or 30% faster? I have most of the NEC literature on micro's and I haven't a clue. I am anxious to find out if the V25 with the faster BUS is "bus-limited". Thanks for any reply. Msg#:32990 *INK* 09/26/90 08:13:45 From: JEFF BACHIOCHI To: PAUL SHUBEL (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 32937 (V25) Paul, If you mean can the I/O bus run 0-wait, yes providing your I/O can handle the speed. V25 gives you the choice of 0,1,2,2+ext wait. As far as performance goes, it does use some deep pre-fetching but, I feel the proof is not in the numbers but in the use. If your application isn't any faster the numbers mean diddly! jeff Msg#:32973 *INK* 09/25/90 21:18:09 From: BRIAN WALTER FARMER To: CURT FRANKLIN (Rcvd) Subj: MICROCONTROLLERS The INK magazine is what this reader wants, but my area of work involves the 68HC11, 6809 single board computer by Wintek, DAS8 by MetraByte for the IBM PC. I would find reading related to these more useful than readings on Micomint's. How about it, do you think most other readers would agree. Msg#:32992 *INK* 09/26/90 08:49:56 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: BRIAN WALTER FARMER Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 32973 (MICROCONTROLLERS) While Circuit Cellar INK does contain a few articles on "Build a General-Purpose Controller Using xxxx Processor," that type of article isn't the norm. We run articles on computer *applications*. While it's inevitable that a choice must be made for what processor to use, the content of the article can usually be applied to most other processors. We don't choose to single out or ignore any particular processor. Articles written in-house tend to favor the 8031 family simply because that is what we're familiar with and have the tools for. If somone submits an article which uses a 6809 (and it fits into the scope of the magazine and is well written), then we'll run it without hesitation. However, we can't publish what we don't have. Like I've said before, if you'd like to see an article on a subject that we haven't touched before, start writing. That's the best way to be sure we do cover the subject. Issue #18 has an article written by Steve on a 68HC11-based controller. Msg#:33110 *INK* 10/02/90 09:44:41 From: CURT FRANKLIN To: BRIAN WALTER FARMER Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 32973 (MICROCONTROLLERS) Ken is correct: we can only print those articles which are available to us. Furthermore, the same principle that governs processor use in board designs controls board selection in applications--everyone tends to use those products they're most comofortable with. In the case of our staff engineers, the most comfortable processors are Intel, the most comfortable boards Micromint. Having said all that, everyone should know that we are actively pursuing articles based on Motorola, Harris, National, TI, and other architectures. As soon as the articles become available to us, we'll try to get them into print. Curt Msg#:32978 *INK* 09/26/90 01:26:55 From: STEPHEN PHILIP SMITH To: ALL USERS Subj: C6805 COMPILIER I had a chance to read the new issue of INK today. I am confussed however. The author of the "timer" article mentions a C6805 compiler. I haven (sorry) I haven't seen it on motorola's bbs nor can I find it on this one. Does anyone know where I can get it. Thanks. Msg#:32993 *INK* 09/26/90 08:56:25 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: STEPHEN PHILIP SMITH (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 32978 (C6805 COMPILIER) The C6805 compiler is a commercial product developed and sold by Byte Craft Ltd. There is a file posted which contains a demo version of the compiler plus complete information on how to get the full-blown version. The file is currently in area 16 (New Uploads), but will eventually be moved to a more appropriate area. I believe it's called C6805DEM.ZIP. If it's not in area 16, enter the command "L C6805" at the command line in any file area and the system will search for it and tell you what area it's in. Msg#:33048 *INK* 09/27/90 18:55:22 From: STEPHEN PHILIP SMITH To: KEN DAVIDSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 32993 (C6805 COMPILIER) Today because of some other major design changes we decided to changed to the mc68hc11 chip. Thanks for the information. It may come in handy some- day. Msg#:32988 *INK* 09/26/90 08:08:30 From: BOB PADDOCK To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 32082 (ZEUS) Lightning Technologies, Inc. 10 Downing Parkway, Pittsfield, Massachusetts 01201 (413) 499-2135 FAX: (413) 499-2503; publishes a news letter bimonthly called "The Lightning Flash". One Year subscriptions $36. The latest issue (July/August 1990 V12, #3) covers, with photographs, "Documentation and Analysis of a Cloud to Ground Strike to the NASA F-106B". They also have a list of recent abstracts that are related to Lightning. Msg#:33000 *INK* 09/26/90 10:41:33 From: STEVE CIARCIA To: BOB PADDOCK (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 32988 (ZEUS) Have you read this newsletter? Is it worth $36? --Steve Msg#:33060 *INK* 09/28/90 07:48:24 From: BOB PADDOCK To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 33000 (ZEUS) I've only seen one issue, which if you fly in lightning storms was very interesting, but if you don't you could skip it. The list of abstracts was very intersting tho. Give them a call and ask for a sample issue. I do think $36 is a bit high for a 6 page newsletter.... Msg#:33006 *INK* 09/26/90 12:17:49 From: DAVE TELLING To: TOM BRUSEHAVER Subj: 386 WHY Tom, I've been using microcomputers of various sizes since 1976, when I built a 6502 based system. I've been through KIM-1's, OSI's and Commodore PETs and VIC-20's. None of them were the perfect system, but each was a good system for it's time. Now I use a Mac II and several varieties of PC clones, and I like them all. Given a choice, however, I would buy a PC clone for my next system because the cost is low, you can get it fixed anywhere, and because I do not get down into the hardware much, the software I use is simple and available. Sure, it is not perfect, but compared to 1976, it's great! Hang in there, some day the perfect system that runs any software, at a speed faster than light, and costs $10.00 will be made. I'll get one! Dave Telling Msg#:33120 *INK* 10/02/90 14:00:53 From: JOHN MUCHOW To: ED NISLEY (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 32212 (IMAGEWISE/PC APPL. HELP) I've been writing the software to run my IMWPC-based tracking system and have been having trouble setting the overlay switching level. I was wondering if you might be able to help me out. To increase the contrast between the target and the background, I have set the White level to 115 and the Black level to 110. Via software, while observing the digital output of the IMWPC, I raise the White/Black levels by 5 each time I hit a key. I keep doing this until all background relfections, etc. are gone. If I can't do this before White hits max, I know there is not enough contrast between my target and the background and I know that I have to remove or cover whatever is causing the reflection. My problem comes when I try to raise the overlay switching level to match my new Whitr/Black levels. The target's reflection is approximately 7 lines by 7 "pixels". On the scope, the comparator signals a "hit" on the leading edge of this reflection. This normally would be OK, but as I raise the switching level, the "hit" pulse gets narrower and narrower until it disappears at approx. 140. This happens even thoughmy target's reflection is at the pure white level, 1.0 volt, on the scope. If I keep raising the switching level higher, but still way below max, the comparator suddenly acts as if I had set the level extremely low. It shows a hit for almost the entire video line! Since the modification to the IMWPC (to get the address of the first pixel that exceeds a certain value) depends on the overlay switching level being set high enough to exceed all background reflections, I'm in a bit of fix here. Any ideas as to what I may be doing wrong, or how I might be able to solve this? Thanks!! P.S. I have been typically setting the overlay level to 5 below the Black level. This was totally arbitrary, ensuring only that I had the level higher than any reflections. Msg#:33445 *INK* 10/10/90 08:16:37 From: ED NISLEY To: JOHN MUCHOW (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 33120 (IMAGEWISE/PC APPL. HELP) Ooops... I think you've run into a hardware limit. The "overlay" circuitry was intended to switch a large area rather than small blips: think of the background of a weather map rather than characters. The analog switches have transition times in the 100-300 ns range, so they don't respond well to a switching signal that's only a few pixels wide. That's the trouble you're seeing: the rise and fall times are long enough compared to the signal that the output never really stays high over the width of your target. I don't have a good suggestion as to why the comparator flips for high DAC outputs. It would be worthwhile to check the actual voltages on the comparator inputs to make sure that something odd isn't occurring. Remember that the DAC output will exceed the video voltage before you hit 255, so there are some unused codes near the high end. Just for fun, check C12 to make sure that it's inserted correctly; if it's backwards, the current will go through the roof around 1 volt or so... there's not enough power to fry it, but it might just complain about the mistreatment! Because you're not interested in exact video fidelity and really care only about the first hit in the field, you can add a "peak hold" circuit to the analog video. Basically, this is just a diode and capacitor set up so that more-positive peaks pass through the diode and charge the cap. A rather large resistor bleeds off the charge so the thing doesn't "stick" at the peak forever; this can be quite slow because you're only interested in one hit per field and if it takes a few lines to discharge it's OK. That circuit goes in front of pin 3 of U43. Make sure the cap is small enough to avoid loading the rest of the circuit when it's grabbing the peaks! Use a Schottky or germanium diode to reduce the forward drop, because the video is only 1 volt above ground to start with. You could add an amplifier, but I think you can get away with a brute force solution here. See if that solves the problem... I think it'll get you pretty close to what you want. Msg#:33483 *INK* 10/11/90 00:28:12 From: JOHN MUCHOW To: ED NISLEY (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 33445 (IMAGEWISE/PC APPL. HELP) OK, that makes sense. I'll give the peak hold circuit a try and poke around the DAC some more. THANKS!! Msg#:33899 *INK* 10/22/90 23:23:40 From: JOHN MUCHOW To: ED NISLEY (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 33445 (IMAGEWISE/PC APPL. HELP) OK, I tried a few things and here's what I got. C12 is inserted correctly. Pin 2 of U43 goes from 0-1.35 volts for a 0-255 input to the DAC. Pin 3 of U43 looks good with video white at .6 volts. I tried a huge target (approx. 1/4-1/3 of the screen) to see if that made any difference. With my Black level = 110, White = 115, Overlay = 105, the target width was 22usec on the video line. The comparator output was also 22usec wide. With Black level raised to 115, White level to 120 and Overlay level to 110, the target width was still 22usec but the comparator output narrowed to .3usec! The comparator pulse started just after the rising edge of the target's. The output of the DAC was 3.4 volts when the comparator output completely disappeared (approx. overlay level=130). U43's Pin 2 was at .6 volts when the comparator output disappeared (which makes sense, that's the video white level). I just don't understand why the comparator output narrows so suddenly, unless this is just part of the circuit operation and there no longer a linear relationship between everything as you get up that high. I just wanted to run this by you to see if this was proper operation before installing the pulse stretcher. Thanks. Msg#:33991 *INK* 10/25/90 15:19:39 From: ED NISLEY To: JOHN MUCHOW (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 33899 (IMAGEWISE/PC APPL. HELP) Click! The black and white levels set the analog voltages corresponding to "0" and "255" output bytes, so if you move them closer together, the scene more and more contrasty (everything below "black" appears as zero, everything above "white" is 255). You're doing that to make the target stand out against the background, which is well and good. Unfortunately, reality gets in the way. Those two voltages drive the resistive divider inside the video ADC and there is a definite minimum (which I don't remember offhand, but which is around a volt) voltage! At the levels you're talking about, the divider chain is starved for current and it's no wonder it doesn't work! I bet if you look at the output video it'll be pretty bizarre, too. While you can boost the contrast a little bit by twiddling those levels, you can't slice the signal quite as finely as you'd like. I'm pretty sure that's the source of the problem... but a test would be to watch the video and see what it looks like. Msg#:33140 *INK* 10/03/90 00:40:41 From: JOHN GROVES To: CHAD SMITH (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 31658 (DIGITAL VIDEO) Intel has a technology called DVI. It compresses video to reduce the data rate and file size. You can compress up to 100:1 or 200:1 and play back in real time. Video has a few artifacts at the higher compression rates but plug in board for the PC is around $2700. Not bad, considering what it is doing. John Groves Msg#:33489 *INK* 10/11/90 01:33:43 From: CHAD SMITH To: JOHN GROVES Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 33140 (DIGITAL VIDEO) HEY! THANX A LOT! LOOKS LIKE WHAT I'VE BEEN LOOKING FOR NOW ALL I NEED IS A HIGH SPEED HIGH STORAGE MEDIA. -CHAD SMITH (ACS- ADVANCED CABLE SYSTEMS) Msg#:33148 *INK* 10/03/90 08:02:34 From: BOB PADDOCK To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: VOLTMETER In your voltmeter interface article you talk of PPM of a verities fluids. I don't understand if this is the PPM of each individual fluid, or PPM of the finished glop? Can you measure the finished glop sense the individual parts will have different densities? Also in figure 6 you call out a 2N2907-PNP but show a NPN, I assume from the circuit that it should be a PNP? Msg#:33200 *INK* 10/04/90 15:09:35 From: STEVE CIARCIA To: BOB PADDOCK (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 33148 (VOLTMETER) You're right. Right transistor, wrong symbol. Thanks. Regarding PPM I think it had more to do with concentrations of the diluted chemicals (in water) before they are mixed into a soup. There were other nasty things but I still haven't put it all together yet. --Steve Msg#:34258 *INK* 11/01/90 22:04:16 From: BOB ARMSTRONG To: BOB PADDOCK (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 33148 (VOLTMETER) I have to admit that I'm curious to see where you take this. I enjoyed the article and have some uses for the Voltmeter. It looks like it would be simple to hook the MAX134 to the parallel (or general purpose) port of a PC and play with it that way also. Of course, you need to be even more careful with isolation, but that is not an obstacle. I'm going to have some fun with this chip.... Msg#:33195 *INK* 10/04/90 12:05:25 From: TOM NICKEL To: CURT FRANKLIN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 31776 (DSCOPE PAL PROGRAMMING) Is someone still looking for somebody to program PALS for them? Msg#:33344 *INK* 10/08/90 09:17:44 From: CURT FRANKLIN To: TOM NICKEL (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 33195 (DSCOPE PAL PROGRAMMING) I believe so--are you offering? I will go back and check my mail to see who needs PALs, and send their onfi to you. Curt Msg#:34159 *INK* 10/30/90 08:57:56 From: TOM NICKEL To: CURT FRANKLIN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 33344 (DSCOPE PAL PROGRAMMING) Well, I'd be happy to "help-out" any fellow hackers whose projects are stuck because they haven't the capacity to program a PAL. I've been there too. My only concern is that a dump truck full of 16l8's doesn't pull up accompanied by two guys with shovels. But I could do a few .. Here's where I am: Tom Nickel PO Box 37321 Milwaukee, WI 53237 (414) 747-6823 Msg#:33208 *INK* 10/04/90 17:06:20 From: DEAN HEDIN To: ALL Subj: LOCATE UTILS Is there any documentation for locate88.arc? Also does anyone know the name\developer of a locate utility designed for Borland's turbo c and turbo pascal products? I used to have the info, but lost it. Any help appreciated. Msg#:33253 *INK* 10/05/90 10:43:33 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: DEAN HEDIN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 33208 (LOCATE UTILS) The docs for the locate utility in the file area are an article that appeared in Dr. Dobb's Journal a few years ago. I have the issue at home, so can't tell you which one right now. The following is a list I put together of software vendors that should make life easier. I've been using Paradigm's stuff for a while now and am happy with the results. I've been using Turbo C and Turbo Debugger and it's a very powerful development system. RTC-V25 Support Software 10/4/90 The following vendors sell products which aid in the development of software for the RTC-V25 board. We make no claims for any vendor or product, and this list does not constitute a recommendation of any kind. Paradigm Systems P.O. Box 152 Milford, MA 01757 (508) 478-0499 LOCATE -- Facilitates transferring code developed with high-level lan- guages into EPROM for use on the RTC-V25. Languages supported include Microsoft C, Turbo C, Turbo Pascal, QuickBASIC, etc. TDREM -- Turbo Debugger Remote interface module. Allows source-level debugging of programs written in a high-level language right on the RTC-V25 board. ---------- Systems and Software, Inc. 18012 Cowan, Suite 100 Irvine, CA 92714-6809 (714) 833-1700 Link & Locate++ -- Similar to LOCATE above, allows putting code devel- oped with Microsoft C into EPROM. Supports only Microsoft C. ---------- Phar Lap Software, Inc. 60 Aberdeen Ave. Cambridge, MA 02138 (617) 661-1510 LinkLoc -- Links and locates programs written in Microsoft C for placement into EPROM. Supports symbolic debugging information. ---------- Aldia Systems, Inc. P.O. Box 37634 Phoenix, AZ 85069 (602) 866-1786 PC-LOCATE -- Locate .EXE files to facilitate burning into EPROM. ---------- Soft Advances 10811 Washington Bl., Ste. 205 Culver City, CA 90232 (213) 559-7015 ROM-Link -- Another utility to link and locate .EXE files for use with EPROMs. ---------- Datalight 17455 68th Ave. NE, Suite 304 Bothell, WA 98011 (206) 486-8086 ROM-DOS -- MS-DOS in ROM that allows easy porting of code developed with a high-level language to EPROM. C_thru_ROM -- Complete development environment that allows putting Mi- crosoft C code into EPROM. Also does remote source-level debugging. ---------- Sophia Systems and Technology 2450 El Camino Real, Suite 212 Palo Alto, CA 94306 (415) 493-6700 FS Locate -- Locate utility that allows putting Microsoft C, Turbo C, and Quick C code into EPROM. ---------- NEC Electronics, Inc. 401 Ellis St. P.O. Box 7241 Mountains View, CA 94039 (415) 960-6000 RA70320 -- Relocatable Assembler supporting the V25 instruction set and mnemonics. ---------- KADAK Products Ltd. 206-1847 West Broadway Vancouver, B.C., V6J 1Y5 Canada (604) 734-2796 AMX 86 -- Real-time multitasking kernel for programs written in C. ---------- A.T. Barrett & Associates 11501 Chimney Rock Rd. Houston, TX 77035 (800) 525-4302 RTXC -- Real-time multitasking kernel for programs written in C. ---------- U.S. Software Corp. 14215 NW Science Park Dr. Portland, OR 97229 (503) 641-8446 USX -- Real-time multitasking executive. ---------- Micro Digital, Inc. 6402 Tulagi St. Cypress, CA 90630 (714) 891-2363 smx -- Simple Multitasking Executive supports Microsoft C, Turbo C, and assembler. Also supports V25's register banks. Msg#:33236 *INK* 10/05/90 06:10:08 From: RICHARD S. TEAL To: ED NISLEY (Rcvd) Subj: FURNACE CONTROL I've been building a furnace controller for the past year and have enjoyed reading your column. I've got a couple of suggestions you may find useful. I've run 6-wire cable to each existing thermostat and place my temperature sensors within those thermostats. Using relays in my controller, I switch back to the thermostats on loss of power to the controller or in case of failure. Thus the existing system as a backup "controller". Because the sensor lines run near large AC signals, I've carefully selected the rate at which I read the sensors, and then use a digital lowpass filter to reduce the 60 Hz noise. I highly recommend the DS1286 Watchdog timer chip. It not only has a real-time clock, but about 48 bytes of RAM that is internally backed up and a Watchdog to reset the processor if the software gets lost in never-never land. I plan to integrate a burglar alarm into the system next. Where do you get "telephone" keypads? They don't seem to be offered by anyone anymore. Msg#:33433 *INK* 10/10/90 07:34:27 From: BOB PADDOCK To: RICHARD S. TEAL (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 33236 (FURNACE CONTROL) For telephone keypads try Grayhill Inc. 561 Hillgrove Ave, PO Box 10373 La Grange, Illinois 60525-0373. (708)-354-1040 FAX: (708) 354-2820 Msg#:33447 *INK* 10/10/90 08:18:01 From: ED NISLEY To: RICHARD S. TEAL (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 33236 (FURNACE CONTROL) I like it! I'd thought of putting an analog sensor in the thermostats, but they very cleverly stapled the wires inside the walls. One of the access holes is "overhead around the corner" in the attic, so I'd have to come up through the floor. That's one of the reasons I settled for just monitoring the existing system rather than controlling it... I've got enough trouble explaining how it all works without getting into "mission critical" code for heating controls! Doing line-synchronous filtering is the only way to go. I figured I'd have to install the thing and see how much trouble cropped up before deciding how much (and what type of) filtering was needed... as Steve found out with his solarium project, sometimes you just get lucky! I'll have to rummage around and see if I can come up with a watchdog timer of some flavor or another. Sounds like the basis for a column... thanks! Do you really want a genuine telephone keypad, or just one with 12 keys in the right layout? The former are a pain to work with because of that odd crossbar switching to generate the dual-tone frequencies from real analog circuitry; whatever would you want that for? The latter show up in the usual surplus catalogs on a regular basis... I don't think they're all that rare, unless you're really picky about what the legends look like. Msg#:33843 *INK* 10/21/90 10:55:44 From: RICHARD S. TEAL To: ED NISLEY (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 33447 (FURNACE CONTROL) Running wires is a pain, but a required hassle. I ran into noise problems with my sensors and therefore had to filter them a lot. I currently just low-pass filter heavily when just using BASIC, but expect a lot better performance when I write the sampling routine in assembly and can run the sampling much more precisely. I'll let you know the results. You are correct in that I don't want to mess around with telephone tones, just a keypad with 12 keys. Msg#:33847 *INK* 10/21/90 15:57:53 From: RICHARD S. TEAL To: BOB PADDOCK (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 33433 (FURNACE CONTROL) Thanks for the info. I'll try them this week. Msg#:33884 *INK* 10/22/90 14:42:49 From: ED NISLEY To: RICHARD S. TEAL (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 33843 (FURNACE CONTROL) All things come to those who wait... take a look in the new MP Jones catalog: 2374-SW Phone keypad with rubber contacts (ugh) in standard layout with standard legends and standard colors. $1.95 each. SW-2788 Phone keypad with row and column to common (implies one contact per key) gray with white letters $2.50 SW-2028 Phone keypad with X-Y switching, black with white letters $2.50 3085-SW Mini keypad in phone layout without the letters on the keycaps, one contact per key, rubber keys $3.00 They still have that bizarre keypad I used for the Furnace Firmware project: SW-2156 $1.25 each, SW-2157 5/$5.00. Msg#:33896 *INK* 10/22/90 20:52:13 From: SANJAYA VATUK To: ED NISLEY (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 33884 (FURNACE CONTROL) Speaking of that bizarre keypad, was that a (gasp!) membrane type? --Sanj Msg#:33990 *INK* 10/25/90 15:06:28 From: ED NISLEY To: SANJAYA VATUK (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 33896 (FURNACE CONTROL) Yes, but I made sure to wash my hands afterwards... Msg#:33276 *INK* 10/06/90 02:02:06 From: GEORGE LOYER To: ED NISLEY (Rcvd) Subj: SOURCE FOR NMC9346 Enjoyed the Firmware Furnace article this month. I'd like to know where to get an NMC9346. I've been trying to figure out how to find some config space in a telescope drive controller project without putting a full 8K EEPROM in the project. Couldn't find it in James catalog. Hope you can recommend a source. thanks George Msg#:33448 *INK* 10/10/90 08:18:26 From: ED NISLEY To: GEORGE LOYER (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 33276 (SOURCE FOR NMC9346) When I pulled the article together, Digikey had them for a couple of bucks, which is where I think we got them. A quick scan through the new catalog has me worried, but I bet I'm just overlooking it. Steve, where _did_ those things come from? Msg#:33336 *INK* 10/07/90 23:37:47 From: MARK A DAHL To: ALL Subj: BCC180 TIME I hope this isn't a silly question... I just started playing with a bcc180 and I can't figure out how you would keep accurate timing of tasks. (In basic180) I understand that there is 60 'tics' per second and from that I should be able to time events and such, but in playing with simple programs of the sort found in the front of the basic manual I can't make things time out the way I want. For instance, if I wanted the main prog to constantly print out 'main' and after every minute have a task print out the elasped time (every 3600 tics), the timing is way off. If anyone could explain accurate timekeeping on the 180 and for that matter on the bcc52, I would be grateful. Thanks. Msg#:33366 *INK* 10/08/90 11:01:57 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: MARK A DAHL Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 33336 (BCC180 TIME) There are two issues here: error checking overhead and console I/O priorities. The overhead of the error checking code will sometimes throw off the timing of the system. Any time you want accurate timing, turn error checking off before compiling the program. The other issue, and the one that is probably affecting you, is how BASIC decides who gets to print when. Some of the sample programs don't perform as you'd expect since they are all trying to print to window 0. When a task prints a string, it locks the window so that another task can't mess it up (for example, an interrupted cursor positioning sequence would screw up the whole screen). When you have a situation where one task is printing constantly, it can completely monopolize the screen, locking out all other tasks which are trying to print to the same window. The proper way to handle any screen I/O is to define a separate window for each task. That way, when a task is running, it can lock its window while printing and not stall the other tasks. If you want a true display of task timing, you should be flashing a light or something similar which avoids the terminal altogether. Msg#:33440 *INK* 10/10/90 07:50:44 From: BOB PADDOCK To: MARK A DAHL Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 33336 (BCC180 TIME) The lattest EDN (Oct 1, 1990) contains 'Real-Time Programming Series-Part 2'. It discribes when time is hard to deal with, unless done in "the real-time frame of mind...". It may anwswer your question, and give you the solution. Msg#:33342 *INK* 10/08/90 06:02:19 From: RANDALL CORNELIUS To: ALL Subj: MC68705U3 In the darkroom timer article ( Issue 17 ), it was mentioned that the MC68705U3 is readily available on the surplus market for a few dollars. Does anyone have a name and number for a supplier? Randall Cornelius Msg#:33412 *INK* 10/09/90 21:31:57 From: FRANK KUECHMANN To: RANDALL CORNELIUS (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 33342 (MC68705U3) The MC68705U3 is in the JAMECO catalog: JAMECO Electronics 1355 Shoreway Rd Belmont CA 94002 415/592-8097 [24 hr order line] Advanced Computer Products also carries it: Advanced Computer Products 1310 E Edinger Santa Ana CA 92705 714/558-8813 800/366-3227 Msg#:33590 *INK* 10/13/90 21:46:13 From: RANDALL CORNELIUS To: FRANK KUECHMANN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 33412 (MC68705U3) Thanks for the reply.Jameco lists them for 17.95.I am kind of starting from scratch (I will have to buy a programmer for the 2764 and build a bootstrapping board for the MC68705U3) ,and I will most likely want 10 to 20 of the U3s to start with,so I'm looking for the best price I can get. Randall Cornelius Msg#:33733 *INK* 10/17/90 12:47:14 From: KENNETH SCHARF To: RANDALL CORNELIUS (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 33342 (MC68705U3) I am thinking of building my own version of the darkroom timer. Since I have quite a few 8748's I was looking at converting the source code to 8048 assembler. I noticed what is sort of a bug in the "C" source, the thing will let you enter a weird time value such as 1:99.99 (1 minute, 99 seconds, and 99/100 seconds). This is really 2 minutes 39 seconds and 99/100 seconds, and the timer will count down correctly (if i am reading the code correctly). I have access to a programmer at word that will handle the 8748, and I can use the external program mode for debug till I get the code right. NO I'm not partial to Intel, but having a cache of parts to start off with does alter ones design choices! Msg#:33862 *INK* 10/22/90 01:21:57 From: RANDALL CORNELIUS To: KENNETH SCHARF (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 33733 (MC68705U3) Thanks for the info. I envy you your source of controller chips. At this point I,m not locked in on which chip I want to use, but I'm more familiar with the motorola chips. Msg#:33383 *INK* 10/09/90 04:43:34 From: FRANK KUECHMANN To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: INK ARTICLE A couple of questions on the article starting page 43 in the new INK: 1. Is there an error in Fig. 1 on p 44? The only 7660 circuits I've either used or seen would require a diode [e.g. 1N914] between pin 5 of the 7660 and the capacitor, cathode to pin 5. Does using a 100 uF cap instead of 10 uF [per Intersil data] change the need for the diode? 2. In Fig 2 you use an 'LS259 package and a ULN2003 to drive the relays; are you familiar with the Signetics NE5090? It's an addressable latch like the '259, same pinout and overall function, but with high-voltage O.C. outputs that can sink 200 ma each, thus able to drive relays directly. All 8 outputs would clear to high on reset and using it would cut the package count by combining the '259 and 2003 functions in a single package. Msg#:33396 *INK* 10/09/90 10:51:55 From: STEVE CIARCIA To: FRANK KUECHMANN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 33383 (INK ARTICLE) I don't have the board or the raw schematics here at the office but I'll check the 7660 connections again. While there may be a numbering error (but I don't think so) I didn't use any diodes and the output was a solid -5V. I'll check tonight at home. Regarding item 2, yes. Right after I wired the 259 and 2803 (which I had readily at hand) I came across the 5090. I have since bought a bunch so I'll use those next time. Still, since this is published for readers to build, they may have fewer problems getting 259s and 2803s. --Steve PS BTW the MAX134 is really neat and pretty idiot proof. Msg#:34259 *INK* 11/01/90 22:09:42 From: BOB ARMSTRONG To: FRANK KUECHMANN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 33383 (INK ARTICLE) Where did you find the 5090s? I haven't come across any and can't seem to locate them. Thanks, Bob Msg#:34319 *INK* 11/03/90 18:32:24 From: SANJAYA VATUK To: BOB ARMSTRONG (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 34259 (INK ARTICLE) Digi-key has the NE5090N's for about $3. They also sell the NE590N, which can sink 250 mA per output for a little less. Both devices have the same pinout. There is also an NE591N which has open emitter drivers which can source current to a load from a common collector voltage. 1-800-digikey. -- Sanj Msg#:33404 *INK* 10/09/90 15:11:21 From: RALPH JANNELLI To: JEFF BACHIOCHI (Rcvd) Subj: V25 CONTROLLER I enjoyed your article on the V25. I have been designing with it for the past 18 months. It is a super chip. I am using it with a real-time OS called MTOS from Industrial Programming Inc. The combination is great. There is a series of articles on MTOS currently in EDN mag. if you are not familure with this OS in is good reading. Keep up the good work. Msg#:33456 *INK* 10/10/90 08:56:56 From: JEFF BACHIOCHI To: RALPH JANNELLI (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 33404 (V25 CONTROLLER) Ralph, Am I missing something? Part II is in #20 , but part I isn't in #19. What gives? jeff Msg#:33496 *INK* 10/11/90 08:52:42 From: RALPH JANNELLI To: JEFF BACHIOCHI (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 33456 (V25 CONTROLLER) FUNNY YOU SHOULD ASK. PART 1 IS IN A SPECIAL ISSUE DATED SEPT. 17, 1990 TITLED SOFTWARE ENGINEERING SPECIAL ISSUE. I RECIEVED MINE BUNDLED WITH THE REGULAR ISSUE FOR THAT WEEK. Msg#:33474 *INK* 10/10/90 18:24:32 From: JEFF SPRAY To: ALL Subj: ON LINE DEVICE INTERFACE (ONDI) I just recieved the latest issue of CCI and was wondering what happened to ONDI? Did I miss an issue? (latest issue is 17) Thank you Msg#:33501 *INK* 10/11/90 09:42:43 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: JEFF SPRAY (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 33474 (ON LINE DEVICE INTERFACE (ONDI)) The second part of ONDI (dealing with the software) will be in issue #18. Since the theme is "Control Software," it was a better fit. Msg#:33518 *INK* 10/11/90 22:35:23 From: MICHAEL LANGIANO To: ALL USERS Subj: IBM PGA MONITORS In regards to the feature article in the October/November INK, "RUNNING VGA ON THE PROFESSIONAL GRAPHICS DISPLAY", I would be interested in hearing of sources of supply for the IBM PGA monitors. Msg#:33548 *INK* 10/12/90 15:58:06 From: CURT FRANKLIN To: ALL Subj: TRANSLATORS One of our faithful readers called with a question. Does anyone know of a program that translates 8051 source code into source code for the 8096? We've come up blank here, so any help would be greatly appreciated. Curt Msg#:33746 *INK* 10/17/90 21:56:48 From: SANJAYA VATUK To: CURT FRANKLIN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 33548 (TRANSLATORS) Correct me if I'm wrong, but I could swear that Intel was advertising just such a tool recently. --Sanj Msg#:33892 *INK* 10/22/90 20:17:34 From: SANJAYA VATUK To: CURT FRANKLIN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 33548 (TRANSLATORS) Aha! Found it. Intel calls it TRANS51-96 - Wyle Laboratories is apparently giving it away with orders of the Intel 16-bitters. In any event, Intel or a rep ought to be able to provide more info. -- Sanj Msg#:33644 *INK* 10/15/90 10:11:35 From: STEVE FREEMAN To: ALL Subj: VGA ON PGA HELP PLEASE! I HAVE AN OLD (85) APOLLO 19" MONITOR THAT I HAVE BEEN USING AS DESCRIBED IN THE OCT\NOV INK ISSUE. IT HAS GONE SOUTH (POWER SUPPLY) BOARD FPS 300, MONITOR WAS MADE BY HITACHI MODEL #HM-3719. DOES ANYONE KNOW OF A SOURCE OF EXCHANGE BOARDS, REPAIR FACILITY ETC. TNX. Msg#:33763 *INK* 10/18/90 16:20:55 From: PETER M. BASCH To: J.C. HUBERT Subj: PGA/VGA As a technically astute non-technician, I enjoyed your article. I just saw a PGA display on sale "as-is" for $88, and am seriously considering it as a cheap way to upgrade to VGA. I wish your piece were a little more explicit about what to do. Are you considering making this into a kit? Or at least selling explicit directions about how exactly to make this converter box? I would buy it. Msg#:33771 *INK* 10/18/90 22:56:03 From: ROBERT SHANKS To: ALL Subj: JAMECO Called Jameco to make an order today - OUCH! - $50.00 minimum! thats OK sometimes but most of the time I need a few parts fast ( while I'm slamming Jameco I'l get to 'fast' in a minute ). I've ordered stuff from these guys for years but I think its time for SO LONG, JAMECO. - Ah yes 'fast' - we can send it to you two day air but it will take two days to fill the order... FLAME FLAME - Anyway NEWARK fixed me up - cheaper and quicker I might add. Yea I know theres JDR, Mouser, MCM, etc but for some reason I got used to hittin Jameco first - old habits... I guess? Well I've bitched enough for now - I feel better. Later - Robert Msg#:33814 *INK* 10/20/90 09:06:23 From: KENNETH SCHARF To: ROBERT SHANKS (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 33771 (JAMECO) Wow, the last time i ordered from jamco it was only a $25 min. order. Of course anytime they had a special on a certain item (discontinued stock of an ic that i needed) at a good price i would order many more than i needed just to stock the junk box so i would meet the min. order. But newark now has it's own from of min. order. For certain items (popular transistors and ic's) you must order at least 50 pieces or so of THAT item inorder to be able to place the order. (need 50 2n2222's?). So james isn't the only one demanding that we stock up every time we order. Hint....look in QST magazine for the next hamfest-fleamarket near you. Many of the small parts dealears go to these. Bring your shopping list. Sometimes they even forget the sales tax. Msg#:33826 *INK* 10/20/90 17:11:35 From: MARK BALCH To: ROBERT SHANKS (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 33771 (JAMECO) DigiKey is good for fast orders and all of their parts are brand new from the company. Of course you pay a bit more usually. Jameco has a great catalog that explains alot about their components but that is also changing as they turn more "end-userish." I still have to write to Mouser for a catalog but now my major suppliers are JDR and DigiKey. I refuse to order more than I need to meet a $50 min. Bye...Mark Msg#:33832 *INK* 10/20/90 21:20:37 From: PAUL PETERSEN To: MARK BALCH (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 33826 (JAMECO) mark, i just received a catalog from circuit specialists 800-528-1417.. they are just getting started i guess from the looks of their catalog and have about 1/2 the selection of jameco's chip list but, *no min* and, they show some nifty hobby stuff along with the usual computer peripherals... thought you'd be interested... cheers Msg#:34068 *INK* 10/27/90 13:09:05 From: MARK BALCH To: PAUL PETERSEN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 33832 (JAMECO) Thanks for the #, I'll call them soon for a catalog. Bye...Mark Msg#:34260 *INK* 11/01/90 22:19:40 From: ROBERT SHANKS To: KENNETH SCHARF (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 33814 (JAMECO) Thanks for the tip on the hamfest... (Pork out on some good electronics) - I'm just now getting hooked up with the hamfest croud in my area. It seems to be the same folks that hit all the local computer shops and scarf up bad boards and parts - to fix. Its amazing whats trown away these days. I havent run into the minimum chip count problem with Newark yet - but dont expect the catalog prices to be correct or sometimes even close. Thanks --- Robert Msg#:34261 *INK* 11/01/90 22:25:24 From: ROBERT SHANKS To: MARK BALCH (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 33826 (JAMECO) Yeah its a shame Jameco raised their minimum - it used to be the best way for me to rationalize getting some parts that I didnt absolutely need. Its hard to fool myself for $50. Although I could get some groovey stuff filing out that order... hmmm... Nah Just kidding. ---Robert Msg#:33965 *INK* 10/24/90 22:58:14 From: BRIAN NOKELL To: SYSOP (Rcvd) Subj: TIME DELAY REFLECTOMETER I am looking for a back issue which my Brother needs, regarding info on a Time Delay Reflectometer. If you ran such an article I would like to get the issue or a reprint of the article. Thanks. Msg#:33978 *INK* 10/25/90 10:29:33 From: CURT FRANKLIN To: BRIAN NOKELL Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 33965 (TIME DELAY REFLECTOMETER) The Time Domain Reflectometer was one of the winners in the Second Circuit Cellar INK Design Contest. The article has not yet been printed--it is scheduled for sometime in the middle of 1991. Curt Msg#:33967 *INK* 10/25/90 00:31:19 From: BOB To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: CONTROLLERS FOR THE BUCKS hi steve, I was wondering whether or not you have done a study as to the 'best' micro-controller for the amount of money spent. . I would like to build a system using the minimal component count and ( of course ) at the least cost. The problem I'm having is selecting a chip set. I already know that I'll have to run under battery power and also user external RAM/ROM. Other interfaces ( ie: IO lines, serial lines ) will also be used. I do plan on doing most of the application in a higher level enviroment ( using the 90/10 plan ) . The questions I have are: . 1: I can't seem to find a common source for prices. ie-newark electronics has the 68HC11. But no intel stuff. I can't seem to find prices for most of the processors that you use ( the 80C52 BASIC for example or the Z8 ). Can you recommend a source for both single and quanity pricing? Since I have to go offboard for the ROM/RAM I don't care about a lot of the built in features. What I really want is a cheap processor with a highlevel interface available ( putting it bluntly :-) ). . the project I have in mind will use the following: . a 32K static ram chip, XXXK of ROM. the MAX134 chip ( unless I can find a less expensive equiv ) a speaker a transducer a 2 by 16 or 20 LCD module some switches ( for the user interface of course ) lots of glue... . . the glue will be used to tie the chips together ( of course ) and the less I need the less the total cost of the project will be. . I forsee the most expensive components being the CPU, the A/D and the transducer ( I just can't seem to find 'cheap' sources for those ) and so since I havn't actually purchased anything yet, I figure that I would get some comments from someone whos built lots of CPU based thingys!! . . thanks for any help in advance! bob ano... . Msg#:34063 *INK* 10/27/90 11:54:46 From: PAUL PETERSEN To: BOB Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 33967 (CONTROLLERS FOR THE BUCKS) bob, you might get hold of the Intel 8 Bit Embedded Controller Handbook ..it's loaded with suggested chip configurations for the current intel family's of controllers.... for parts availability call jdr 800-538-5000 , jameco 415-592-8097, digikey 800-244-4539 for catalogs... also, if this is a one time project and you don't care about replacement parts the Marlin P. Jones company has all sorts of stuff in their catalog (407)848-8236 including an lcd 1x16 for $14.... there's another one that has a 2 line lcd but i can't locate it at the moment...if you're interested i look more... american design components 800-776-3700 ha s a chip lineup.... as does circuit specialists 800-528-1417... call em all... i went thru the pages of radio electronics mag and sent a post card to every parts advertizer they had.... cheers Msg#:34124 *INK* 10/29/90 12:14:01 From: STEVE CIARCIA To: BOB Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 33967 (CONTROLLERS FOR THE BUCKS) Considering my manufacturing and publishing interests, I can't offer a completely objective opinion that would answer all your objectives. The best source is CC INK magazine. There are controller boards offered among the ads from $39 to $495 and up with a variety of functions. The processors offered include Z8, Z80, 8031, 8052, 80C552, 68000, 64180, V25, V20, 68HC11, and others just on a first scan of the ads. The 80C52-BASIC chip is $25 ($15 for a BASIC-52 programmer's manual) from Micromint (203-871-6170). And, while most places sell the Z8671 for $25, Jameco seems to have it at a below cost price of $7.95. You'll also find a few more surplus parts dealers in the next INK. --STeve Msg#:34139 *INK* 10/29/90 16:04:53 From: ARLEN FLETCHER To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: HYDROPONICS Great article on the Digital Voltmeter interface! Interestingly enough, I had picked the same Maxim chip for monitoring a marine aquarium. It requires the exact sensors as your hydroponic garden, but seems to have less legal complications!! Can't wait for the follow-up article(s). Arlen Msg#:34197 *INK* 10/31/90 05:47:19 From: ALTON PARIS To: SYSOP (Rcvd) Subj: BYTECRAFT C6805 COMPLIER You mentioned the ByteCraft C Complier in the article on the Darkroom Timer Project. How does one get this complier. Thanks, Alton Paris Msg#:34203 *INK* 10/31/90 08:57:01 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: ALTON PARIS (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 34197 (BYTECRAFT C6805 COMPLIER) Contact Byte Craft Limited 421 King St. North Waterloo, Ontario N2J 4E4 Canada (519) 888-6911 Fax: (519) 746-6751 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Msg#:34240 *INK* 11/01/90 09:13:48 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: ANDY MEYER (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 34227 (DID I MISS SOMETHING?) Part 1 of the MITEE Mouse III article was in issue #15 (June/July '90) of Circuit Cellar INK while part 2 was in issue #16. The current issue is #17 and #18 will be mailing in a few weeks. It sounds like you missed something. Msg#:34258 *INK* 11/01/90 22:04:16 From: BOB ARMSTRONG To: BOB PADDOCK (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 33148 (VOLTMETER) I have to admit that I'm curious to see where you take this. I enjoyed the article and have some uses for the Voltmeter. It looks like it would be simple to hook the MAX134 to the parallel (or general purpose) port of a PC and play with it that way also. Of course, you need to be even more careful with isolation, but that is not an obstacle. I'm going to have some fun with this chip.... Msg#:34259 *INK* 11/01/90 22:09:42 From: BOB ARMSTRONG To: FRANK KUECHMANN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 33383 (INK ARTICLE) Where did you find the 5090s? I haven't come across any and can't seem to locate them. Thanks, Bob Msg#:34319 *INK* 11/03/90 18:32:24 From: SANJAYA VATUK To: BOB ARMSTRONG (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 34259 (INK ARTICLE) Digi-key has the NE5090N's for about $3. They also sell the NE590N, which can sink 250 mA per output for a little less. Both devices have the same pinout. There is also an NE591N which has open emitter drivers which can source current to a load from a common collector voltage. 1-800-digikey. -- Sanj Msg#:34260 *INK* 11/01/90 22:19:40 From: ROBERT SHANKS To: KENNETH SCHARF (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 33814 (JAMECO) Thanks for the tip on the hamfest... (Pork out on some good electronics) - I'm just now getting hooked up with the hamfest croud in my area. It seems to be the same folks that hit all the local computer shops and scarf up bad boards and parts - to fix. Its amazing whats trown away these days. I havent run into the minimum chip count problem with Newark yet - but dont expect the catalog prices to be correct or sometimes even close. Thanks --- Robert Msg#:34261 *INK* 11/01/90 22:25:24 From: ROBERT SHANKS To: MARK BALCH (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 33826 (JAMECO) Yeah its a shame Jameco raised their minimum - it used to be the best way for me to rationalize getting some parts that I didnt absolutely need. Its hard to fool myself for $50. Although I could get some groovey stuff filing out that order... hmmm... Nah Just kidding. ---Robert Msg#:34265 *INK* 11/02/90 04:17:02 From: FRANK KUECHMANN To: BOB ARMSTRONG (Rcvd) Subj: SIGNETICS NE5090 My data source is a Signetics data book. I've got a couple on hand that I've had for several years, but can't remember where I got 'em. If I really need something like that I contact sources like Hamilton-Avnet, Nor-Vac, etc. If I'm just experimenting, I might buy from outfits like JameCo, Digi-Key, Advanced, etc. You might try those catalogs and see. Msg#:34536 *INK* 11/11/90 18:20:47 From: BOB ARMSTRONG To: FRANK KUECHMANN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 34265 (SIGNETICS NE5090) Thanks for the info. I'll dig into the catalog pile... Bob Msg#:34266 *INK* 11/02/90 05:52:13 From: ALTON PARIS To: KEN DAVIDSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 34203 (BYTECRAFT C6805 COMPLIER) Thank you very much for your prompt reply. alton Paris Msg#:34329 *INK* 11/04/90 12:31:56 From: ANDY HARTHCOCK To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: TI SONAR MODULE I'm teaching a class on Embedded System Design. In this, we're building a project based on the 'Stepper Motor Scanning SONAR Sensor' in CC Aug. 88. This one, however is using a servo driven human skull that can 'stare' at someone as they move about a room. Unfortunately I'm having a problem with the TI sonar unit. The basic setup is to assert INIT for 50 MSecs every 100 MSecs and note the ECHO response on the scope. In Single-Echo mode however, I get an Echo response after about 2.5 MSecs regardless of distance to target. In Multi-Echo mode, Echo seems to follow the inverse BLNK signal which I assert for 1 MSec after a 1 MSec reception of ECHO. Any comments from fellow sonarians would be extremely helpfull ! Msg#:34331 *INK* 11/04/90 12:45:41 From: PAUL PETERSEN To: ANDY HARTHCOCK (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 34329 (TI SONAR MODULE) andy, i'm not familiar with the ti module but i've installed many many sonar units back in my geophysics days.... it sounds to me like you are getting feedback directly from output to input... any sonar that i've ever seen blanks the receiver for a period of time to prevent this... what happens is that some of the transmitted energy takes the shortest path directly from the transmit transducer to the receiving transducer and it looks like a normal echo return... the solution is to establish a minimum range from which no echo will be processed and set blanking accordingly .... we used the speed of sound rule of thumb at sea level for this..... i hope this helps... cheers Msg#:34350 *INK* 11/05/90 08:44:17 From: STEVE CIARCIA To: ANDY HARTHCOCK (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 34329 (TI SONAR MODULE) What you are seeing is very unusual and thousands of TI-01s are out there working properly. Your init pulse has to stay high until you receive the echo, for one thing. Also, becareful that nothing is in front of the sensor that might be giving you short range readings. BTW, your power supply can supply a couple amps when the TI-01 is transmitting, right? I usually put a 470 ufd cap across the power input leads to make sure. Insufficient current does strange things. --Steve Msg#:34349 *INK* 11/05/90 08:18:26 From: KENNETH SCHARF To: ALL Subj: HELP Ok, I tried to enter this request before when my 60 minutes ran out. I am looking for a machine independant way to generate a pause in my program (on pc, at, xt, etc clones) in 100 micro second intervals. I am building my own version of the serial eprom programmer, but using the parallel interface from the ddt51 project. So all the 'smarts' will be in my pc. The project will program ALL 24, 28, and 32 pin eproms using the standard 50ms, interactive, and quick pulse algorithms. I need a means of timing the pulses. The dos timing resources are good to 1/18.2 second! I could disable interrupts for a bit, and use a program loop, but I first have to measure my cpu speed somehow. I need a means that will self calibarate on *ANY* machine from 4.77 mhz 8088 to 50mhz '486. I thought of stealing the system 8254 clock, and then giving it back but my first attempt left the disk system hung up. Any one know the ibm's deep dark secrets and can help? Thanks in advance. Msg#:34358 *INK* 11/05/90 10:28:49 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: KENNETH SCHARF (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 34349 (HELP) Ed did a whole article on stealing a timer from the 8253 on the PC for doing precision timing. Look at Firmware Furnace in the Sept/Oct '88 issue of Circuit Cellar INK (#5). Msg#:34418 *INK* 11/07/90 10:35:58 From: KENNETH SCHARF To: KEN DAVIDSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 34358 (HELP) OOPS...I think that is one issue before my subscription began. I wonder if there are any back issues available..... Msg#:34359 *INK* 11/05/90 11:26:00 From: JERRY ASKEW To: ED NISLEY (Rcvd) Subj: RS-485 NETWORKING Dear Ed, This may be a little old, but here goes... I am designing an 8051 based automotive product. The system uses distributed control, so a network was in order. I decided to use RS-485 driven by the 8051 serial port. I had just ordered the entire back issue set of CCI, and unbeknownst to me, it had a wealth of info on RS-485/8051 apps. (INKNET issue 10-12). I am planning on using the "Multiprocessor" mode of the 8051 serial port so that the nodes will not have to examine all of the traffic on the bus looking for it's address. Each system will consist of a "Master" unit and one or more "Slave" units. I would prefer not to manufacture each and every slave with a different address (either in ROM or switches or E2PROM or whatever.) Rather I would like to assign addresses when the system is powered up. The problem is collisions during the initial sign on. If the units are powered on at different times, there is no problem. However, if the units are powered on simultaneously, they would both announce their presence (and ask for an address assignment) at the same time. Your article gave me a ray of hope about detecting collisions. Can a transmitter detect a collision by monitoring the bus?? RS-485 calls for a 200mV threshold on the receiver. My fear is that the local transmitter would be able to win by 200mV locally, causing the receiver to see exactly what the transmitter is sending. If collisions can be reliably detected, is their an algorithm that can be used to arbitrate the initial collision mentioned above?? Since all slaves are identical, I cant think of a way to preform a random (or any other) back off. Any insight that you can give will be greatly appreciated. Thank you, -Jerry Askew P.S. Can an IBM PC hook to the bus VIA an RS-485 to RS-232 converter? I am assuming that the 8250 can handle the ninth bit by using mark or space parity. That way a parity error would indicate that there isn address on the bus. Msg#:34459 *INK* 11/08/90 11:40:40 From: ED NISLEY To: JERRY ASKEW (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 34359 (RS-485 NETWORKING) That whole issue was why there are address switches on the network nodes... I think you can come up with a "different" random number on each node by running a freewheeling timer; they won't really be powered on at the same instant, so the timer values will be different. In fact, you could drive a random number generator by calling it every time you go around the main loop; timing variations would cause the values to diverge reasonably quickly. The Mandelbrot Engine used identical processors, but had a daisy-chained line connected through all of them. The initial address assignment took advantage of that; the PC set its chain-out line low and sent an address which was heard by all but picked up by only the first node. Each node dropped its chain-out line when it got an address, which continued until the PC saw its chain-in line go low... which indicated how many nodes were responding. It may not be practical to daisy-chain a line through all your nodes, but it might be the only assured way to do the deed. If you are depending on random backoffs to handle address assignments, you need to build a lot of patience and cross-checking into the algorithm! I'd be tempted to write a little simulation program to figure out how well the startup algorithm would work... and then Monte-Carlo it to death over a weekend. Msg#:34514 *INK* 11/10/90 10:13:38 From: JERRY ASKEW To: ED NISLEY (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 34459 (RS-485 NETWORKING) Thanks for the reply Ed. I am still wondering whether or not I will be able to detect RS-485 collisions. The receiver threshold is fairly low compared to the transmitter output. I thought that the local transmitter would overpower the net in the immediate vicinity, causing the local receiver to hear only its transmitter during a collision. Thank you again for your help. -Jerry Msg#:34561 *INK* 11/12/90 09:27:47 From: ED NISLEY To: JERRY ASKEW (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 34514 (RS-485 NETWORKING) Ooops... I thought about that, but it never made it through my fingertips. I guess it depends on the resistance you've got in the network. The only way a local transmitter could "overpower" a distant one is if there was enough resistance along the wiring to change the voltages by that much. I don't think it's a problem, because you "should" have a good connection. Once you get into frequencies where the bit time is comparable to the time of flight between nodes, you need to include a throw-away preamble that ensures the collision is both detectable and won't trash vital data. The CEBUS protocol does this, as does Ethernet and some others. It's probably not an issue for relatively low speed RS-485 networks with rational amounts of wiring (4000 feet of wire is a few tens of microseconds worth of delay). You could send two non-address bytes (say 55 and AA hex) before the address, then verify that you've received them correctly before continuing. The code complexity to detect a collision wouldn't be too bad, but figuring out what to do next... ah, there's the rub! Msg#:34407 *INK* 11/06/90 16:29:56 From: JEFF SPRAY To: CURT FRANKLIN (Rcvd) Subj: VCR BACKUP The contest winners included a VCR backup card that I am very interested in. It would be an inexpensive way to back up my HD and would probably be fun to build. Is there plans to present this as a project? If so, when and if not, is there a way I can contact the person who submitted it to the contest? Thank you. Msg#:34419 *INK* 11/07/90 11:04:43 From: CURT FRANKLIN To: JEFF SPRAY Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 34407 (VCR BACKUP) We do plan to run the VCR Backup card as a project. It will probably be the middle of 1991 before it can be scheduled. In the meantime, if you would like to contact the author, you can send a letter to Winifred Washington, c/o Circuit Cellar INK at our Vernon address. We'll make sure that the letter gets to him. Curt Msg#:34449 *INK* 11/08/90 09:18:40 From: TED DECASTRO To: ALL Subj: PRODUCT NOTICE As the readers of Circuit Cellar are the do-it-yourself type I felt that this information regarding a product featured in the pages of Circuit Cellar is particularly appropriate. In the New Product News on page 13 in the August/September Issue (#16) is a release about a product called the SV1000 from a company calling itself ColorBurst. This is a reasonably priced product that allows you to gather images from a TV camera to you PC cheaply and without using up a slot - since it works through you printer port. NOT SO REASONABLE however is the fact that is comes with all the IC numbers ground off the ICs! A polite request to ColorBurst for the ID of these ICs was firmly refused! Also of note: If you circled a "BINGO" card expecting more information on this product ...... don't hold your breath! I did back in May - and finally called to ask about it and mentioned having circled the "bingo card". The response was that they never send the information requested - too much trouble! So ..... A word to the wise. Be so advised before you buy! Also - if any of the genius here have managed to figure out those IC numbers - I would appreciate knowing. Many years down the line when this product finally fails and ColorBurst is on to bigger and better things I'd sure like to have at least a shot at fixing the thing myself! Personally I consider grinding out IC numbers to be a pretty "slimey" practice. It you have a decent product and a price commeasurate with the product complexity and cost to produce - then it would be uneconomical for people to try to copy it! I can only assume that this product costs only a very small fraction of its price to produce - maybe 5 to 10 % - and that they are trying to get all their engineering costs out of the first few customers. Msg#:34479 *INK* 11/08/90 21:16:25 From: PAUL PETERSEN To: TED DECASTRO (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 34449 (PRODUCT NOTICE) ted, reminds me of magnavox.... some years ago we used to buy pertec, sperry, and datum products - to mention a few. we would remove all references to the company name and replace it with the magnavox name and logo forcing the customer to call us if they had a problem. field service was charging $325/day + everything in those days. makes you wonder...... Msg#:34599 *INK* 11/13/90 09:24:42 From: TED DECASTRO To: PAUL PETERSEN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 34479 (PRODUCT NOTICE) Yeh - it sure makes owning a product tough!! I don't see ANY justification for it! When something I own goes bad I at least like to take the first shot at fixing it - often it is minor and I can have it repaired in less time than it takes to call for an RMA and pack the silly thing up for shipment! Msg#:34472 *INK* 11/08/90 16:47:17 From: JOHN W. SMITH To: ALL USERS Subj: 8051 C COMPILERS My company is embarking on a realtime project using an 8051 micro controller. We would like to write the code in C. I understand that there are several C compilers on the market that could do the job. It would be extreemely helpful if I could get some "real world" input from experienced users as to the pros and cons of each of these compilers. Objective as well as subjective comments are of interest. Thanks John W. Smith Msg#:34492 *INK* 11/09/90 10:27:18 From: CURT FRANKLIN To: JOHN W. SMITH (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 34472 (8051 C COMPILERS) It probably won't help you with your immediate problem, but there will be an evaluation of at least three 8051 C compilers in Circuit Cellar INK #19. In the meantime, I would welcome comments about C compilers from folks on the BBS--the comments might, in fact, make it into the evaluation! Curt Msg#:34496 *INK* 11/09/90 13:06:31 From: JOHN W. SMITH To: CURT FRANKLIN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 34492 (8051 C COMPILERS) Thanks for not repremanding me for failing to review the mesage list before submitting my request. I looked at it after I sent my message and it doesn't look good. I have a bit of gossip that readers may like to be aware of. I talked with someone who knows someone, (etc. etc.) that says that there's a company near Ft. Worth who has been developing a complete line of compilers for Avocet to replace their existing products. The poop is that their 8051 compiler is pretty phenominal! The story I heard is that a benchmark written by Franklin Computers to show off their 8051 compiler was rewritten by NOHAU in assembly language. Not suprisingly it ran about 300% faster and was 1/3 the size of the code generated by the Franklin compiler. This company's 8051 compiler's code ran just 30% slower than the assembly language code and was only about 100 bytes larger. Apparently they have some whiz bang optimizer. When I was talking with this guy I told him this was too good to be true. He assured me that is was though. He'd seen the code! Well, if you ask me it's a little hard to believe that there isn't some tradeoff. Thanks for the reply Msg#:34564 *INK* 11/12/90 09:29:08 From: ED NISLEY To: JOHN W. SMITH (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 34496 (8051 C COMPILERS) I'd like to see it before I buy it, but I'd like to buy it! I've always been a little scared of "aggressive optimization" because those damn things just don't know when to quit. Sometimes they do what they think you meant instead of what you said; figuring out what chunk of code got opitmized out of existence is pretty tricky. Guess it's time to warm up the phone lines and see if I can find out anything interesting... Msg#:34652 *INK* 11/15/90 10:00:50 From: JOHN W. SMITH To: ED NISLEY (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 34564 (8051 C COMPILERS) I agree totally. I've seen people try to use native compilers for cross development and find out that they are forced to totally disconect the optimizer because it makes brash assumptions about the target environment. A lot of people don't understand the differences between native and cross compilers! I'm not sure what kinds of optimization are done in this new 8051 compiler, but I do know that the original compiler that it was derrived from was designed specifically for embedded development. Exactly what that means I'm not quite sure, but it has all of the embedded development features like bit, interrupt, near, far, etc. I sure would like to see some code from this beast! Msg#:34660 *INK* 11/15/90 14:04:50 From: ED NISLEY To: JOHN W. SMITH (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 34652 (8051 C COMPILERS) Ditto... but all things sound good before they're real! I suspect that "designed specifically for embedded systems" means whatever you want it to mean. Methinks a good compiler is a good compiler; adding oddball features to the _language_ isn't the right way to go. Having useful routines in the _library_ for a specific application makes a lot of sense. On the other hand, I suppose that a really terrible implementation of bit fields would be OK for a "business" application... but sudden death for 8051 code. Msg#:34827 *INK* 11/20/90 15:45:53 From: JOHN W. SMITH To: ED NISLEY (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 34660 (8051 C COMPILERS) You know, I've noticed several anomolies about the 8051 that Intel could easily remidy. One that really stands out is the lack of an exclusive or bit operation. I'm sure you seasoned veterans have many more to add to you wish list for both compilers and enhancements to the 8051 processor itself. Also, I heard through the infamous "grape vine" that Intel is about to begin design of the successor to the 8051! What do you think they should change? Msg#:35011 *INK* 11/26/90 12:05:06 From: KENNETH SCHARF To: JOHN W. SMITH Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 34827 (8051 C COMPILERS) I thought that the 8096 family was the replacement for the 8051. Msg#:34499 *INK* 11/09/90 15:31:21 From: SCOTT COPPERSMITH To: TIM DUFFY Subj: ORCAD CAE PRODUCT ENHANCEME We use OrCad here at Chrysler, I would be willing to ask around about your product if I had some more info. Send it to: Scott Coppersmith Chrysler Motors Corporation 2301 Featherstone Rd Auburn Hills, MI 48057-3511 CIMS: 429-37-00 Msg#:34517 *INK* 11/10/90 12:07:31 From: TOBY S. HALL To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: HIGHWAY SPEED MONITORING Steve Ciarcia, I am very interested in a topic you addressed in the Oct\Nov 'Steve's Own Ink' concerning monitoring highway speeds. Having studied microwave forms of speed measurement using x and k bands and having heard of a laser method, I am interested in what direction you were taking with the project. I know you may not be able to discuss your methods due to customer confidentiality but if you can, I would be very interested. Thanks, Toby S. Hall Msg#:34600 *INK* 11/13/90 09:35:47 From: STEVE CIARCIA To: TOBY S. HALL (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 34517 (HIGHWAY SPEED MONITORING) The system we are working on uses passive optics (seems to work by the way) but I am under a non disclosure agreement and can't say much more. Sorry. --Steve Msg#:34923 *INK* 11/23/90 20:11:05 From: WALTER H. PETER To: TOBY S. HALL (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 34517 (HIGHWAY SPEED MONITORING) Toby, the principle is well known. Two lens systems separated latterally by a convienent distance, look at the moving vehicle. Image sensors ,usually linear CCD arrays, record the images. Using triangulation and a lot of computer power the distance to the subject can be determined. Mearsure the distance again a few hundred milliseconds later and compute the velocity! Sounds simple, but very difficult in pratice. I'vmake it work, I guess steve has too. Walt Msg#:34550 *INK* 11/12/90 06:02:22 From: DALE NASSAR To: ED NISLEY (Rcvd) Subj: TEMPERATURE SENSOR Ed, The text for Photo 1 in your article (INK #17) states that the modular phone connector carries two wires to the LM335 but it looks like three in the photo. Is the resistor in the pipe clamp assembly or did you just pull the ADC0808 input pins high at the IC (running two wires to the LM335)? What kind of distance can you get with telephone wire? Thanks, --Dale Msg#:34563 *INK* 11/12/90 09:28:36 From: ED NISLEY To: DALE NASSAR (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 34550 (TEMPERATURE SENSOR) So much for good camera angle. The top "wire" is a stub of heatshrink tubing that doesn't connect to anything. Now that I've told you, you can probably see it... but I had to get the thing off the shelf to make sure! The mystery resistors are in Photo 2, screwed right into the edge connectors... and the four wires going off into the modular cable would connect to two different sensors if there was anything at the end of the cable! The camera never lies, but you can sure fake it out! I expect there will be no problem with the 30 foot run I need, but I haven't actually wired the thing up in the basement yet... so no news is no news. Msg#:34595 *INK* 11/13/90 02:44:15 From: DALE NASSAR To: ED NISLEY (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 34563 (TEMPERATURE SENSOR) Yep, the photo is clear now Thanks, --Dale Msg#:34584 *INK* 11/12/90 20:56:24 From: SCOTT WHITTLE To: MATTHEW TAYLOR (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 29591 (DIGITAL AUDIO) HEY I'M A DRUMMER...LETS GET SOMETHING GOING :) (I'VE GOT A SIMMIONS SDS-9 AND AM CURRENTLY BUILDING MY OWN MIDI TRIGGER UNIT) THE BURR-BROWN DATA BOOK IS THE BEST!! I TOO AM BUILDING SAMPLERS AND THE LIKE. THE OTHER DAY I GOT THE WHIM TO OPEN MY CD PLAYER (DBX DX-5) AND WHAT DO I SEE ARE TWO (2) BURR-BROWN PCM56 16 BIT SERIAL DAC'S. I'VE BEEN WANTING TO PULL DATA OFF OF IT FOR PLAYING (NO PUN) AROUND WITH AUDIO EFFECTS AND THE SERIAL FORMAT MAKES IT TOO EASY (GOD WAS SMILING ON ME AT THAT MOMENT WHAT COULD BE BETTER THAN A COUPLE OF SHIFT REGISTERS FOR YOUR DATA) ANYWAY I'VE BEEN LOOKING AT THE MOTOROLA 56001 DSP..ANY THOUGHTS, CRINGES, OR DISCOVERIES ?? ALSO THE FILTERING ISSUE IS A GOOD ONE!!!! SCOT WHITTLE Msg#:34683 *INK* 11/16/90 00:58:33 From: MATTHEW TAYLOR To: SCOTT WHITTLE (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 34584 (DIGITAL AUDIO) I would love to get a DSP project going (probably using the TMS320). I think it would be just a little too easy to run a big bill getting the board built. What controller are you using for your trigger unit? Regards, Matt Msg#:34723 *INK* 11/17/90 00:47:15 From: SCOTT WHITTLE To: MATTHEW TAYLOR (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 34683 (DIGITAL AUDIO) The BIG BILL ($$$$$$) issue is a real problem. I have a half dozen projects which could easily make the national deficit look like change. Anyway I'm currently getting some info on the TMS320 and will let you know whats up. The processor in my trig unit will be of the 8031 variety (at least the prototype) my calculations point to enough overhead to handle all of the MIDI and triggering response. While I'm here, do you know of any cheap 8 bit ADC (for MIDI velocity) . Talk to you soon Scott Msg#:34738 *INK* 11/17/90 17:17:12 From: MATTHEW TAYLOR To: SCOTT WHITTLE Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 34723 (DIGITAL AUDIO) My preference for all my d/a and a/d are Analog Devices parts. For uP work, they can't be beat. For 8 bits, I like the AD 558 (DACPORT). It requires a single 5 volt supple, no reference, and has latched inputs so it can be treated as an address from a uP. Output is 0-2.56 volts (1 mV/step) For your A/D needs, look at the AD 7575. It is an 8 bit ADC with tri state output, single supply, AND on board track and hold- a must for any digitization above 10 Hz. Both these parts cost about $4.50 each, as I recall. Yes, that is more than the National DAC08XX and ADC08XX parts, but they are MCUH easier to work with- no input latch or I-V converter on the output! Regards, and good luck. Keep me posted on progress. P.S. Max sample rate on the AD 7575 is 200Khz. Msg#:34618 *INK* 11/13/90 22:17:46 From: STEVE BLAIR To: ED NISLEY (Rcvd) Subj: 8031 TIMERS I've got a tech question concerning the 8031 family's Timers. Assume the following bits are set: TRx=1 - timer running, and either IE.7 or IE.x = 0 so the timer interrupts are disabled. Here's the question: Once the timer overflows and TFx gets set by hardware, does the counter registers, THx & TLx, continue to be incremented? I would assume they do continue to increment. What's the straight scoop here Ed? Thanks...Steve Sorry 'bout the uploaded appearance!! Msg#:34659 *INK* 11/15/90 13:54:13 From: ED NISLEY To: STEVE BLAIR (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 34618 (8031 TIMERS) You got the picture... the timers continue to tick as long as TRx is 1. The TFx flag gets set whenever the count wraps, and it'll stay on until you clear it (if you don't field the interrupt, natch). That's why you've got to stop the timers when you load them. Consider loading TH0 just before TL0 overflows; you wind up with a count that matches nothing you started out with. Mutter. Msg#:34939 *INK* 11/24/90 14:53:28 From: STEVE BLAIR To: ED NISLEY (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 34659 (8031 TIMERS) Thanks Ed. I am working on an 8052 simulator. It's my first program in C !! Here's another one for you. I want to be able to scroll through the actual source code that is being simulated instead of just a disassembled pile of meaningless addresses. I can create an array of pointers that will give the correct offset relative to the beginning of the source text file. Do you know of any C library that is available that would keep the text scrolled to the proper place if I feed it these relative line numbers? I have played with this a bit, and it seems to be a problem. Msg#:35150 *INK* 11/29/90 12:44:22 From: ED NISLEY To: STEVE BLAIR (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 34939 (8031 TIMERS) I've been using the C-scape library, which has a Scrolling Editor screen object: you feed it a block of text and it handles all the scrolling around. Unfortunately, it's intended for bulk text editing, not source code browsing... but with a little fiddling, it might be a start. You'd have to read all the text in and create a buffer for it rather than expecting it to use line numbers directly. There are some subtle problems lying in wait for you that I've seen in the Avocet debugger. For example, a line number isn't really a single instruction if you use macros (or if you're using C, for that matter!) and there's a question about what "display this line" really means. Start slow and think about how you're going to handle all the things that "would be nice" before you rush off to the keyboard! Msg#:35288 *INK* 12/02/90 19:54:04 From: STEVE BLAIR To: ED NISLEY (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 35150 (8031 TIMERS) I agree with your outlook Ed. Most of the time if you're going for a simulation you'll have a listing of source with addresses listed. I would darn near have to write my own assembler to take care of pulling all the weeds and planting the right flowers into the LST file - what a pain!!! Msg#:35488 *INK* 12/06/90 13:50:25 From: ED NISLEY To: STEVE BLAIR (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 35288 (8031 TIMERS) The Charlie Brown approach to life: There is no problem so big or so complex that it cannot be run away from... Msg#:35784 *INK* 12/14/90 23:47:44 From: STEVE BLAIR To: ED NISLEY (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 35488 (8031 TIMERS) I liked your Charlie Brown analogy. I am, however, a bit more persistent than our old friend. I have found a way to use the list file created by any PD 8051 assembler with my simulator. Macros are expanded et all. All simulation functions are in place. I'm working on the most painfull part now; the pull-down mouse driven user interface! Msg#:35969 *INK* 12/20/90 14:16:04 From: ED NISLEY To: STEVE BLAIR (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 35784 (8031 TIMERS) You are a _lot_ more persistent! Have you looked into any of the shareware libraries that handle user-interfacy things? Usually you get the source code, too, so you don't have to worry about them fading away on you... and usually it's better than writing it all yourself. Keep up the good work! Msg#:36065 *INK* 12/23/90 02:50:52 From: STEVE BLAIR To: ED NISLEY (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 35969 (8031 TIMERS) I have been looking for some shareware/PD editor C-stuff but, alas, no editors. I'll keep looking. I have registered for a copy of CXL52 that does windows i - should be coming real soon. Msg#:34837 *INK* 11/20/90 20:18:02 From: GARY MELANDER To: ALL USERS Subj: TECH TIP CARDS. I just received the CCI "Tech Tip" cards and was glad to see the LP Interrupt/Event Trigger. It just so happens that I was looking for something like this for a uP-based job I'm doing. Unfortunately, The National Semiconductor sales office, (in Dallas), says that the MM5369 time-base chip is slated for cancellation from thier product line. Like NEXT MONTH. I sure can't afford to design it in now. Is there a drop-in replacement from a second source? Perhaps a different part number with the same functions? Most of the stuff I've found has far too many pins, supporting functions I don't need, and a small DIP footprint is important in this application. THANKS! Gary Melander, Dallas, Tx. .........-1963-....2400 N8 Msg#:34867 *INK* 11/21/90 14:36:06 From: STEVE CIARCIA To: GARY MELANDER (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 34837 (TECH TIP CARDS.) Use a crystal and a CD4040 divider chip! --Steve Msg#:34932 *INK* 11/24/90 05:27:28 From: FRANK KUECHMANN To: GARY MELANDER (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 34837 (TECH TIP CARDS.) The 4060 and its 74HC4060 cousin have built-in oscillator components [inverter, feedback resistor] and a 14-bit binary counter [don't get access to all stages, just most]. With a 32KHz watch xtal added externally, you get counts as far down as 2 Hz. It's a 16-pin package, thus bigger than the 5369, but it's the only thing I know of that might do what you need. For a 2nd source on the 5369, you might check Samsung. I think they've 2nd-sourced some of Nat'ls other chips. Msg#:35156 *INK* 11/29/90 13:53:00 From: ED NISLEY To: GARY MELANDER (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 34837 (TECH TIP CARDS.) Y'ever notice how, just when you think of something useful to do with a chip, it goes away? Sigh... Msg#:35168 *INK* 11/29/90 19:03:10 From: GARY MELANDER To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 34867 (TECH TIP CARDS.) Duh. Msg#:35169 *INK* 11/29/90 19:04:58 From: GARY MELANDER To: ED NISLEY (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 35156 (TECH TIP CARDS.) And so goes on the never ending story of my life. Msg#:34933 *INK* 11/24/90 06:43:50 From: BILL DUFFY To: CURT FRANKLIN (Rcvd) Subj: SPECIAL ISSUES Just a quick question. In issue 11, in the Editor's Ink, Future Plans, you said there would be two special issues. Did I miss them or are they coming. I was thinking that three CCI's in one month would be incredible. Msg#:35007 *INK* 11/26/90 10:26:16 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: BILL DUFFY (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 34933 (SPECIAL ISSUES) The original plan called for a special issue in May '90 and another around November '90, each a month after the regular issue normally published around that time. Instead, we put special sections in two of the 1990 issues (#15 and #17) and starting with issue #19, there will be a special section in every issue. Msg#:35064 *INK* 11/27/90 10:41:15 From: CURT FRANKLIN To: BILL DUFFY (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 34933 (SPECIAL ISSUES) Bill - Ken's explanation is correct. We decided, for a number of compelling reasons, to create special sections rather than special issues. We're trying to bring more material to our readers and stay in business. Curt . Msg#:35218 *INK* 11/30/90 20:08:38 From: BILL DUFFY To: KEN DAVIDSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 35007 (SPECIAL ISSUES) Ken- thank you for the reply-Bill Duffy Msg#:34941 *INK* 11/24/90 16:03:47 From: HUGH DUFF To: ALL Subj: 8031/51 Circuit Cellar #13 had a letter to the Reasearch Staff from 'Jon Williams' requesting information on books ect.. about learning the 8031. The reply made mention of a book called "Mastering Digital Device Control" by: William G. Houghton. I am having trouble locating a source for this book ( here in Toronto) Could anyone provide me with any further info ie..where i can order this book from ??? A local book distributor advised me that the book is out-of-print. I feel that i would have a greater chance of finding it in the U.S. Any help will be greatly appreciated... Hugh Duff VE3OYH Msg#:34983 *INK* 11/25/90 22:45:09 From: TIM MCDONOUGH To: HUGH DUFF (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 34941 (8031/51) You know the old saying... good news & bad news? I authored the original reply about the 8031 book called "Mastering Digital Device Control". The book, published by Sybex, is apparently no longer available. I spoke to Sybex last Spring and they indicated that the book was not out of print but that a reprint date had not been scheduled. Unless you can find a book dealer who will help you locate an existing copy you may be out of luck. Tim Msg#:35027 *INK* 11/26/90 20:37:41 From: PAUL PETERSEN To: HUGH DUFF (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 34941 (8031/51) try Bookware 800-288-5662 eastern time zone.... they have a humougous list of strictly computer books including hardware and software... its worth a shot... cheers Msg#:35032 *INK* 11/26/90 22:50:59 From: TIM MCDONOUGH To: HUGH DUFF (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 34941 (8031/51) As an alternative you might investigate "The 8051 Microcontroller: Architecture, Programming and Applications" by Kenneth Ayala. Published by West Publishing Company (800) 328-9352. The ad for this book appears in the December/January issue of CC Ink. I have not seen the book so cannot say anything pro or con. Tim Msg#:35252 *INK* 12/01/90 10:57:20 From: HUGH DUFF To: TIM MCDONOUGH (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 34983 (8031/51) Hi Tim...Re: out of print... That is what the local distributor told me but i thought you guys in the states might have a better chance ! Oh well... I recently recieved Dec/Jan issue of the magazine and saw an ad for another book. ( pg 47) I think i'll order it as there doesn't seem to be much out there in the way of choice. Thanks...Hugh Duff Msg#:35253 *INK* 12/01/90 10:59:30 From: HUGH DUFF To: TIM MCDONOUGH (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 35032 (8031/51) Ordered !!! Thanks...Hugh Msg#:35254 *INK* 12/01/90 11:02:37 From: TIM MCDONOUGH To: HUGH DUFF (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 35253 (8031/51) Please post a message and let me know what you think about the new book. I called them and was going to order but they didn't have the book without the software. (I already have all the PseudoCode software). I may eventually buy it anyway but with Christmas and all there were more immediate things to do with the $50! Tim Msg#:35558 *INK* 12/08/90 18:34:32 From: HUGH DUFF To: TIM MCDONOUGH (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 35254 (8031/51) Hi Tim....Will let you know what i think about the book. Seems to be a shortage of decent literature ( 3rd party books) on the 8051. Maybe someone at 'The Cellar' could sell a lot of copies by writing a good book on it. ...Hugh... Msg#:35017 *INK* 11/26/90 13:41:57 From: TOM NICKEL To: CURT FRANKLIN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 33548 (TRANSLATORS) It seems to me that there was such a translator RIGHT HERE on the Ink BBS under the micro devp't tools. Msg#:35018 *INK* 11/26/90 13:45:36 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: TOM NICKEL (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 35017 (TRANSLATORS) That's right. It was uploaded shortly after Curt first posted that message. Msg#:35033 *INK* 11/26/90 23:03:06 From: TIM MCDONOUGH To: ALL Subj: ONDI CIRCUIT BOARDS For those of you who have been following John Dybowski's articles about the ONDI system, printed circuit boards and selected parts are now available. Assembled and tested ONDI systems are not available. Item 1 - ONDI Printed Circuit Board...............$ 42.00 Item 2 - Dallas Semiconductor DS2250 w/socket.....$ 45.95 Item 3 - Power transformer........................$ 10.95 The printed circuit board includes a silk screened, solder masked PCB, schematic diagram, parts placement diagram, and parts list. The items listed above may be purchased by calling or writing: Cottage Resources Corporation Suite 3-672 1405 Stevenson Drive Springfield, Illinois 62703 (217) 529-7679 Curt Franklin, Editor of Circuit Cellar Ink, has given his permission to post this message as a service to the readers. Please direct any questions to the address shown. Msg#:35124 *INK* 11/28/90 23:42:59 From: BRIAN S. BAXTER To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: HC11 ARTICLE I'M HAPPY TO SEE THE BEGINNING OF ARTICLES ON THE HC11. I USE AN A1 IN AN APPLICATION TO MONITOR A ROBOTIC DEVICE FOR PARAMETERS THAT ARE OUT OF BOUNDS. ANOTHER ENGINEERING GROUP HAS USED THE SAME CONTROLLER FOR APPLICATION OF ELECTROTHERAPY. THIS IS ONE SERIOUSLY EASY TO USE DEVICE CONSIDERING ALL THE FEATURES IT HAS. KEEP THE ARTICLES COMMING!! Msg#:35153 *INK* 11/29/90 13:44:48 From: CHAD SMITH To: CURT FRANKLIN (Rcvd) Subj: JUST STARTING OUT As I read through the INK I notice some things. This magazine is directed towards people who have had experience with these devices used in the projects. ' What I would like to see is an area devoted to the novice engineer. For example articles on the basics of embedded controllers eg 8052 basic. Not a project based on it but information on how to use the thing. Thankyou, -Chad Smith Msg#:35327 *INK* 12/03/90 13:16:51 From: CURT FRANKLIN To: CHAD SMITH (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 35153 (JUST STARTING OUT) Chad: It's funny: I just finished replying to a mail message from a reader who thinks we're oriented toward novices. I suppose that we're into one of those highly subjective issues, here. Let me re-use part of my response to the previous message: 03: When we plan articles and themes for Circuit Cellar INK, we assume that 04: the reader has nearly seven years experience designing and implementing 05: computer applications. We don't deal with most "basic" topics, unless it's 06: a topic that is new. We've talked about running basic tutorials, but we're afraid that we'd end up boring the majority of our readers. If I end up with 100-130 editorial pages, I might very well consider running a "Getting Started" column. Until then, I have to put my efforts into material for the majority of my readers. My suggestion to you is that you make good use of this bulletin board. The folks here are knowledgeable and generally eager to help folks who are just getting started in control applications. Let me know if there are any ways in which I can help you. Curt Franklin Msg#:35180 *INK* 11/29/90 21:01:12 From: DALE NASSAR To: JEFF BACHIOCHI (Rcvd) Subj: CONTROL THEORY Jeff, Just got Ink #18 and immediately read your application of closed-loop control theory to magnetic levitation (what does that ball weigh?). I love this type of reading--entertaining applications illustrating a very usable process. I hope Ink keeps this up. You state on page 72 that "An integral mode output changes faster for larger rates of error input, .." I think "accumulations" would be a better word than "rates" for describing the integrator output since for any given sampling rate, the output could be large or small depending upon magnitudes of summed (accumulated) error. For example, over some time interval a small error being sampled at a high RATE might produce less output than a large error sampled at a slower RATE. Also in figure 2 the gain constant should be R2/R1 and in figure 3 the sign of V(o) should be negative either in the formula OR in the diagram. Vcc in the diagrams should be on pin 8 of the 1458. I have come to realize that most applications of closed-loop control theory seem to have a common process outline (proportional/integral/ derivative) with a wide variety of configurations depending upon the particular transducer being controlled. Currently, in my spare time, I am working on a laser writer (that I'm planning to submit to Ink) which makes good use of closed-loop control theory to enable high quality writing with cheap speakers (driven by ULN3751's) and an intelligent controller. The overshoot feedback voltage obtainable from my speakers (Radio Shack 4" woofers) is excellent. I can get over .1 volts across the terminals while they are shorted by a (heavy) jumper! In this control process, consideration must be given to the fact that drive force requirement is increased with increasing cone displacement and that the error signal quickly dies out even if no correction has been applied. Another fun project that comes to mind would be a tightrope-walking robot with a proportionally controlled balance pole. --Dale Msg#:35207 *INK* 11/30/90 10:41:00 From: JEFF BACHIOCHI To: DALE NASSAR (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 35180 (CONTROL THEORY) Dale, Thanks for the comments. I really had my doubts about controlling that ball through software. If it wasn't for the compiler I couldn't have done it. I'm afraid experimenting with the best proportions for each element of the equation in assembly language would have taken longer than the time I had to give. The balls weights about 0.2 oz. I hope to get a chance to go back to this at some time and find or make a larger solenoid. The problem might be preventing all the metalic objects in the room from jumping toward the magnetic field! I can't tell you how interested I am in the "Laser Writer"! This brings back memories of years gone by. For a few years I did "Light Shows", what I wouldn't have given for the ability to perform more than simple "O-scope" paterns on the wall! I guess I'll put my surgically altered speaker cones down for now and await your article. You've got my vote of confidence! jeff Msg#:35233 *INK* 11/30/90 23:08:55 From: BOB ARMSTRONG To: JEFF BACHIOCHI (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 35207 (CONTROL THEORY) I enjoyed that article also. It reminded me of a project in one of the electronic magazines back in the late 60s or early seventies. That one used a cadmium sulfide photocell as the detector and was not a good performer. I'll have to pull that article out just for grins. Ain't things changin'? Msg#:35268 *INK* 12/01/90 22:28:40 From: KENNETH SCHARF To: DALE NASSAR (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 35180 (CONTROL THEORY) Popular electronics ran an article in the late 60's called "little atlas" which susded a small metal globe (pencil sharpner) from an electro-magnet using a 3 transistor servo to do the same job that the 8031 did. Three pots controled the servo parameters. Seems to me tha analog servo was more cost effective....but the article's purpose was to teach a principle. Msg#:35308 *INK* 12/03/90 09:15:34 From: JEFF BACHIOCHI To: KENNETH SCHARF (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 35268 (CONTROL THEORY) Kenneth, Actually, I believe Analog is much more cost-effective. This was as you say 'to teach a principle'. On a one off basis, as a stand alone control, analog is simple. To tie it together with other controls of a total system, digital has the advantage of total control and management. jeff Msg#:35329 *INK* 12/03/90 15:31:51 From: DALE NASSAR To: KENNETH SCHARF (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 35268 (CONTROL THEORY) That sounds intresting, I'll try to find a copy--do you know what issue? --Dale Msg#:35425 *INK* 12/05/90 02:27:27 From: DALE NASSAR To: JEFF BACHIOCHI (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 35207 (CONTROL THEORY) Jeff, I sure am going to try to get that laser writer working. I have several backup schemes planned just in case. A more desperate measure involves a 256 (maybe less) array of photodetectors wired in a 16 x 16 matrix and physically arranged in a meter (maybe more) long row with 32 position plus ground connector to an intelligent controller. This detector will provide true closed feedback for a single- channel (horizontal or vertical) oscillation--when illuminated when the laser is projecting a straight line on the screen. Desperate huh? I'll keep you informed. --Dale Msg#:35235 *INK* 11/30/90 23:51:59 From: FRANK HENRIQUEZ To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: HC11 ARTICLE Steve: The 68HC11 article was great! I have a couple of questions: 1) Why did you use a separate clock calendar chip, instead of a Dallas Smart Socket/RTC combo? 2) Have you tried the HC11 with 2K of EEPROM on this board? it's not enough memory to stick Basic-11 in, but it would REALLY cut down on the parts count. Oh yeah...the 68HC11 is actually running at 2MHZ, not 8. The crystal is divided by four. Msg#:35312 *INK* 12/03/90 09:35:53 From: STEVE CIARCIA To: FRANK HENRIQUEZ (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 35235 (HC11 ARTICLE) Sorry for the few errors. The copy editor will be hung at dawn! The OKI clock/calendar is infinitely easier (simple peek or poke operations) to read that the Dallas chip and less expensive too. Also by being able to replace the battery, it lessens the need for very expensive low power 32K rams. Our BASIC11, which we've modified and added more commands, now takes up 12K. --Steve Msg#:35548 *INK* 12/08/90 05:43:37 From: FRANK HENRIQUEZ To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 35312 (HC11 ARTICLE) Steve: Are there any HC11 kits available, or are the two options sold by Micromint the only ones? I thought there was a cheaper version of the board... maybe not. Another question: How much current does a fully stuffed HC-11 take? I was just thinking that this board could make a *really* nice, ultra low power data logger (like the one you made using an 8031 (?)). Msg#:35613 *INK* 12/10/90 09:45:09 From: BURT BROWN To: FRANK HENRIQUEZ (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 35548 (HC11 ARTICLE) A fully loaded HC11 draws just under 115 mA. This drops to about 75 mA if you pull out the RS-485 driver. Msg#:35614 *INK* 12/10/90 09:58:18 From: STEVE CIARCIA To: FRANK HENRIQUEZ (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 35548 (HC11 ARTICLE) No kits are available unfortunately but there is a lower cost OEM version from Micromint. Part number RTC-HC11-1Q is an HC11 board with no RAM or EPROM installed. The price is $199. FOB Vernon, CT. --Steve Msg#:35671 *INK* 12/11/90 23:12:53 From: FRANK HENRIQUEZ To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 35614 (HC11 ARTICLE) Steve: Thanks. I thought I had seen a lower price for the HC11. Msg#:35263 *INK* 12/01/90 17:14:31 From: STAN EKER To: HUGH DUFF (Rcvd) Subj: BILL HOUGHTON'S BOOK Howdy, Hugh! I asked Bill a few weeks ago if he had any leftovers laying around - no dice. He's trying to get the copyright back from Sybex so he can have someone else print it. Apparently, one of the scumbags in Taiwan ripped it off and actually printed MORE copies than Sybex ever did, and Bill's also trying to get hold of a crate of the Taiwan books for sale locally. If it ever works out, I'll post info on where to go for a copy. Sybex only ever pressed 3000 copies, and the distribution sucked so bad they dropped it before most folks even knew it was out. I've got 2 friends looking for copies right now in California, still no luck. Msg#:35404 *INK* 12/04/90 18:45:18 From: SANJAYA VATUK To: STAN EKER (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 35263 (BILL HOUGHTON'S BOOK) I found two more copies of Mastering Digital Device Control in a local bookstore today. If anyone is interested, leave me a message here. -- Sanj Msg#:35551 *INK* 12/08/90 12:30:32 From: STAN EKER To: SANJAYA VATUK (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 35404 (BILL HOUGHTON'S BOOK) Howdy! I think Bill would like a copy himself - don't think he has one. I'll ask and leave a message if so. Thanks! Msg#:35559 *INK* 12/08/90 18:38:19 From: HUGH DUFF To: STAN EKER (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 35263 (BILL HOUGHTON'S BOOK) Hi Stan. Well, those bloody Taiwanese. Always cashing in on a good thing that was developed in the U.S. ( selling it for cut-prices due to free engineering or developement costs.) Do keep me posted if Bill ever gets some more to sell. Hugh Msg#:35560 *INK* 12/08/90 18:41:35 From: HUGH DUFF To: SANJAYA VATUK (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 35404 (BILL HOUGHTON'S BOOK) Hi Sanjaya. Please leave details on the Sybex book. ( Mastering Digital Device Control) I have been looking for it for a while. Please leave the Source's Name, Address and tel no. (w/ area code) Thanks...Hugh Duff VE3OYH Msg#:35601 *INK* 12/10/90 00:37:09 From: SANJAYA VATUK To: HUGH DUFF (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 35560 (BILL HOUGHTON'S BOOK) I bought both copies immediately. I can be reached at (708)771-1928 (home) Figure about $32 with tax and shipping. -- Sanj Msg#:35802 *INK* 12/15/90 11:20:25 From: HUGH DUFF To: SANJAYA VATUK (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 35601 (BILL HOUGHTON'S BOOK) Thanks Sanjaya. I will contact you by phone...Hugh Msg#:35367 *INK* 12/04/90 00:38:43 From: LARRY WALTON To: JEFF BACHIOCHI (Rcvd) Subj: BASIC IN A '552 Hi Steve-- In your 'HC11 article you said you considered porting BASIC to a Signetics 8031-based super chip, but that you were "advised that it would e an ordeal an that there were many incompatibilities." Could you elaborate? --Thanks, Larry Msg#:35524 *INK* 12/07/90 16:07:46 From: STEVE CIARCIA To: LARRY WALTON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 35367 (BASIC IN A '552) I forwarded the message to Jeff. Jeff talked to John Katausky (the guy who wrote BASIC-52) about it and he said it had problems. Perhaps Jeff can elaborate. --Steve Msg#:35689 *INK* 12/12/90 11:18:57 From: JEFF BACHIOCHI To: LARRY WALTON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 35367 (BASIC IN A '552) Larry, I believe the code would probably work just fine. However the size of the present BASIC could not be increased to allow new BASIC commands covering the added features of the 552. Command extensions, could however be added in an external EPROM located at 2000H (code space). Want to pay for a 552 mask? Have you hit the lottery lately or do you just want to donate your car! jeff Msg#:35745 *INK* 12/14/90 00:20:53 From: LARRY WALTON To: JEFF BACHIOCHI (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 35689 (BASIC IN A '552) Jeff-- Hmmmm...Sounds kinda steep. Actually, using an external EPROM with a ROMless version doesn't sound like too bad a trade off to me. Right now I need 10 bits of A/D and enough I/O to handle a dozen Opto-22 modules. Doing it with one chip instead of 3 boards has a real nice ring to it. The 'HC11 looks interesting, but I've gotta have all 10 bits of A/D. By the way, you ever done anything serious with the I2C stuff?? Thanks a bunch for getting back to me. I'm glad to hear that my favorite BASIC is a match for these newer super-chips. Sure sounds like it would make a dynamic duo. When I read from Curt's editorial that Intel claims to have sold 100,000,000 '51s, it got me to wondering how many 8052AH-BASIC ones they've sold. Any idea? I still can't believe they're just gonna blow'em off. --Larry Msg#:35767 *INK* 12/14/90 13:26:49 From: STEVE CIARCIA To: LARRY WALTON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 35745 (BASIC IN A '552) Have you looked at the RTC180 for your application? It has parallel ports for the OPTO stuff, a 10 bit A/D, and a multi-tasking BASIC, plus more. The end result shouldn't cost more than a 552 approach. Intel once mentioned to me that if they sold 30,000-40,000 of the BASIC chips it was a lot. In fact, before Micromint masked their own, Micromint was one of the largest, if not the largest, customer. Now, who knows. --steve Msg#:35397 *INK* 12/04/90 14:31:32 From: GEORGE RAE To: SYSOPS Subj: BILL OF MATERIAL FOR ONDI Is there a bill of material for the ONDI project, Part 1. If yes how can I obtain a copy of it. Thanks, George Rae Msg#:35436 *INK* 12/05/90 09:04:42 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: GEORGE RAE (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 35397 (BILL OF MATERIAL FOR ONDI) Sorry, but you see is what you get. You'll have to assemble a list of parts from the schematic. Msg#:35454 *INK* 12/05/90 16:34:44 From: BOB ARMSTRONG To: KEN DAVIDSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 35436 (BILL OF MATERIAL FOR ONDI) I can't seem to find the DS2250. I looked in Digikey and Jameco. Any suggestions? Msg#:35411 *INK* 12/04/90 23:19:03 From: BOB ARMSTRONG To: JOHN DYBOWSKI (Rcvd) Subj: DS2250 John, Ive tried Carbon Copy, R2 (DCA) and PC Anywhere versions 3&4. Absolutely none of them are reliable enough for me. The major problem is that I have to access a memory resident communication program called Lotus Express. ONDI looks like a good solution. Even if I run CC or R2, I can still drop out to ONDI by sending the proper command, then reboot the PC via the ONDI circuit. This will reset all of the communications software. I have a couple of questions... Can I change the default baud rate to 2400? It looks like I can, but I want to make sure ( in other words, if there is any reason I can't, I don't want to waste time on it...). What's a good (inexpensive?) source for the DS2250? Thanks, Bob Msg#:35465 *INK* 12/05/90 21:39:38 From: JOHN DYBOWSKI To: BOB ARMSTRONG (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 35411 (DS2250) I didn't make any provisions to change the baud rate externally. However in the boot routine the baud timer divisor is equated as a constant. You would have to change the F4h to FAh and re-assemble and link. Perhaps you could obtain a DS2250 from Cottage Resources Corp.. I'm not sure if they would be willing to sell just the chip but you could give them a try. Their telephone number is (217) 529-7679. Msg#:35422 *INK* 12/05/90 02:24:37 From: DALE NASSAR To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: THE WHOLE JOB Steve, I couldn't agree with you more on the importance of the "human interface" (Ink #18) to computer-related products. I would like to know if you are any of the Ink engineering staff knows of an off-the-shelf software package that can be adapted to a series of general purpose data acquisition cards for the PC. My problem is I lack the ability to produce a decent user interface (menus, mouse, print utilities, video config, etc). I have started what is a decent line of low- cost analog and digital acq. cards and would like to provide software to produce marketable packages--thus I need something that I can legally sell with each product. At this point I would gladly design my boards around any available software requirements. I think companies like 'Metrabyte' and 'Real Time Devices' use generalized software for their I/O cards. I could easily configure my card to fit any polling, interrupt or DMA requirements of the program. I am capable of completely testing my designs and therefore have no problem with writing any of the final assembly acquisition routines. I just can't create software to make it pretty. I have non-expensive PCB layout software that I am very pleased with--it does schematic capture, board layout (with component libraries), and decent autorouting. I also use a PC house that takes my layout file by modem (I don't have to struggle with artwork) and is priced right. I don't mind at all doing the required busywork with the hardware design process and manual writing, and I can wait a while before thinking about circuit simulators and such. Another problem that I originally faced was providing enclosures for my products--but fortunately I love designing PC expansion cards and have several years of planned products--so I have temporally avoided the enclosure problem. With the user interface problem solved, I could take off. What do you think? Should I deal with a programmer or (Ugh!) learn to write the software myself. Another problem that I was going to accept was the messy and expensive job of flux removal; then I discovered a water-soluble flux solder (from Alphametals). I don't know if this solder is popular but after using it once I will never use anything else--it's fantastic--just brush off the flux with cool water to get a polished finish with good connections. Looks like the PC is the main ingredient of kitchen table production here. Now, what if I get a million orders?? --Dale Msg#:35512 *INK* 12/06/90 22:02:56 From: FRANK HENRIQUEZ To: DALE NASSAR (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 35422 (THE WHOLE JOB) Dale: National Instruments makes a great instrument interface program, for the Mac and PC, called LabView. It lets you assemble a "virtual instrument" on the screen, with functional controls, etc. The instruments are designed with a visual icon based language. It can also be programmed to accept its input from a variety of sources - through the serial port, through a GPIB-488 card, etc. The data can be manipulated with built-in functions, or with a set of built-in instruments - Fluke meters, HP signal analizers, etc. It's fairly expensive, but the results are impressive. Frank Msg#:35536 *INK* 12/07/90 20:40:21 From: DALE NASSAR To: FRANK HENRIQUEZ (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 35512 (THE WHOLE JOB) Thanks, I think I saw one of their catalogs around here--I'll go look it up. --Dale Msg#:35643 *INK* 12/11/90 04:40:28 From: FRANK KUECHMANN To: DALE NASSAR (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 35422 (THE WHOLE JOB) Dale -- For creating demo software with a good user interface, you might check out Turbo Pascal version 6; it includes an application framework [in the form of "objects"] that supplies things like menus, mouse support, etc. You can distribute Borland's supplied code as long as you make sure there's a copyright notice on it [Borland doesn't want their code falling into the public domain]. It's text-based, so graphics are very limited [a few lines & colors] but quite useful. Simple graphics like graphs, pie/bar charts & similar aren't difficult in Turbo Pascal either -- in graphics mode as opposed to text. Another language worth considering is PowerBASIC [formerly Turbo BASIC sold by Borland now sold by the original developer, Bob Zale through Spectra]. PC-SIG has a disk of windowing utilities that can be used with the compiler & distributed with few restrictions other than those needed to preserve copyright. PC-SIG also has a disk of stuff to help you create user-friendly software. Msg#:35450 *INK* 12/05/90 14:32:05 From: TONY HORBER To: ALL USERS Subj: MICROCONTROLERS I AM ANELECTRONIC ENGINEER WHO WANTS TO LEARN HOW TO USE MICROCONTROLERS BUT I DO NOT KNOW WHERE TO BEGIN. I READ THE ARTICLE IN THE RECENT EDITION OF CIRCUIT CELLAR ABOUT THE 68HC11 BUT I AM STILL CONFUSED. I WOULD APPRECIATE ANY ADVICE THAT COULD HELP ME. Msg#:35480 *INK* 12/06/90 09:11:43 From: JEFF BACHIOCHI To: TONY HORBER (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 35450 (MICROCONTROLERS) Tony, Unless you have a favorite manufacturer, or you want to spend some time comparing the advantages of using one micro over another, I suggest purchasing one to be used as a learning tool. For under $200 you can find micros that will connect directly to a PC (for console I/O) and contain a high level language (like BASIC). You should be able to write simple programs in BASIC to control any I/O on board i.e. parallel ports, A/D, D/A, clock/calendar. In addition to the high level language, utilities should be available for delving into machine language routines/programs, once you feel comfortable with the hardware from upper level. A data book on the processor is a must. There are some tools available in public domain or shareware which can help keep the costs down, but they are processor specific. Make sure the company you buy from has tech support. A phone call can sometimes save days of aggravation:=( jeff Msg#:35585 *INK* 12/09/90 12:58:40 From: PELLERVO KASKINEN To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: THE WHOLE JOB I enjouyed your story about the upgrade hassles. And while I agree in most of it, let me tell something I find even more enraging than questionable instructions for some software installation. It is some of those automatic installers! Theproblem is they often insist on installing only in my C: drive despite of possibly giving an apoparent option! -- PJK Msg#:35600 *INK* 12/10/90 00:31:10 From: DAVE EWEN To: PELLERVO KASKINEN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 35585 (THE WHOLE JOB) I agree. Install programs are the worst! This is where you want to shoot the marketing types and get the designers to simply tell you what directory structure is needed and what goes where. I've had install programs do the stupidest things (like replacing config.sys). If only dos had a copytree command maybe the software guys would use ascii batch files for install and you could inspect their logic before executing them. Msg#:35798 *INK* 12/15/90 07:58:32 From: PELLERVO KASKINEN To: DAVE EWEN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 35600 (THE WHOLE JOB) I ran out of on-line time on my previous message, so I did not get the experience really detailed. I guess, there is no need to go into the details even now, but I feel like crying one more time against your shoulder ;-). The basic installation program as sold to the software developers seems to offer nice capabilities in addition to the file compaction, but maybe _it_ is too difficult to use for those people whose selling work it is supposed to help. I have seen the same core program now for several installations and it _does_ have ability to install in different drives. However, some packages just skip even that option and at least one package, after giving the option of choosing a different drive _still_ installed everything in my C: drive. grrrrr!!! I have just about run out of space on the C:, while there still is some left on the F: and G: drives. -- PJK Msg#:35624 *INK* 12/10/90 15:19:08 From: ROD FULK To: ALL Subj: PRACTICAL ALGORITHMS We converted the Iterative version of the sort routine in the October/November 1990 issue of CC Ink on pages 98-99. The languages we converted this over to was Think Pascal on the macintosh. And Quick Basic on the IBM. Although the routine blew away the recursive version of quicksort it just did not work reliably. The results we would get had slight sort errors (1-5 errors with 40 elements was normal.) This of course is unusable reliability wise. Both versions we converted over had the same problem. Currently we still use the Iterative Quick Sort followed by a Shell Sort. (The shell sort is to make sure the data is correct. ) The time still is quite faster than the Recursive sort on the same data. (Something like 3.5 seconds on data with shell sort. 2.1 with Recursive Quicksort and 1.35 with the combo Iterativere quicksort followed by the shellsort. Can anyone here tell me of any typos in that routine that was printed? Thank you for your time. Msg#:35683 *INK* 12/12/90 05:49:14 From: STEVE COTHRAN To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: MAX174 SUGGESTION Thank you for the article on the multifunction a/d using the MAX chip in the greenhouse series. Especially for the AC/DC converter design you presented. I previously paid a king's ransom ($22) for AD536's to do the job. I have one suggestion..In your article I believe you used an adressable latch to control the input relays to the converter board. I have found that when you're in zombie programming mode, it is possible to have two (or more) relays on at once. Depending on what is connected on the inputs, this can let the magic smoke out of either the relays or the input source. My solution to this is to use a _1-OF_ type chip and the ULNxxxx relay driver. My favorite is a CD4514, but a 74154 could be used. This will eliminate the possibility of more than one relay on at once. The 4514 has an internal latch and inhibit pin. I haven't tried this at bus speeds, as my stuff works off the '51's port pins. Msg#:35692 *INK* 12/12/90 11:39:00 From: CHAD SMITH To: CURT FRANKLIN (Rcvd) Subj: THANKYOU The users of the BBS have been a great help. Also I now realize what type of people the INK is written for. Thanks, Chad Msg#:35757 *INK* 12/14/90 08:14:05 From: MICHAEL MCCORKLE To: ALL USERS Subj: CROSSPOINT SW TECH TIPS I found an interesting card in the Tech Tips card package about a Maxim MAX456 crosspoint switch, and MAX457 video amplifier. Anyone have an idea who might carry these beasties?? They look like they would be useful for a project I have in mind that is similar to Steve's Video/Audio MUX. Thanks! P.S. Anyone have a kit for Steve's project? Msg#:35762 *INK* 12/14/90 09:29:57 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: MICHAEL MCCORKLE (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 35757 (CROSSPOINT SW TECH TIPS) The AVMux was never a kit and never will be. In fact, one of the biggest reasons for putting that particular Tech Tip together was to point out a good replacement for the AVMux. Chips that new are usually only available from the manufacturer or one of his reps or distributors. Forget anywhere mail order or retail. Msg#:35857 *INK* 12/17/90 10:15:11 From: TIMOTHY TAYLOR To: MICHAEL MCCORKLE (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 35757 (CROSSPOINT SW TECH TIPS) Check out the Maxim data book. It'll give a list of local distributers in the back. In the Washington, DC area, it's Baltimore. Some of these places have fairly high minimum orders though. Msg#:35901 *INK* 12/19/90 07:44:04 From: MICHAEL MCCORKLE To: KEN DAVIDSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 35762 (CROSSPOINT SW TECH TIPS) Ken, Thanks for the info. I'll keep running coax thru my attic and basement! Msg#:35902 *INK* 12/19/90 07:45:20 From: MICHAEL MCCORKLE To: TIMOTHY TAYLOR (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 35857 (CROSSPOINT SW TECH TIPS) Tim, THanks for the info, but where do you get a Maxim data book? I've check a few local parts houses and they don't carry Maxim parts. Msg#:35910 *INK* 12/19/90 08:34:48 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: MICHAEL MCCORKLE (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 35902 (CROSSPOINT SW TECH TIPS) You might try contacting Maxim directly. That's why their address and phone number are listed on the Tech Tip card. Msg#:35911 *INK* 12/19/90 08:38:15 From: JEFF BACHIOCHI To: MICHAEL MCCORKLE (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 35901 (CROSSPOINT SW TECH TIPS) Mike, Franchised Distributors for MAXIM include: Anthem, Nu Horizons, Pioneer, Arrow Electronics, Bell Industries, CAM-PRC Electronics, and Hall-Mark Electronics. If you have one of these in your area call 'em. If not, (408-737-7600) or (FAX 408-737-7194) will get you through to MAXIM directly! jeff Msg#:35916 *INK* 12/19/90 09:30:36 From: TIMOTHY TAYLOR To: MICHAEL MCCORKLE (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 35902 (CROSSPOINT SW TECH TIPS) Make sure you tell them that your working on a super project that may wind up using thousands of their devices. You'll be sure to get the book for free and they are also very willing to give out free samples of their devices. Msg#:36041 *INK* 12/22/90 10:56:27 From: MICHAEL MCCORKLE To: KEN DAVIDSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 35910 (CROSSPOINT SW TECH TIPS) Ken, The only card I kept from the deck was the Tech Tip itself on the MAX456. And unless it's written in invisible binary Ink, I can't find an adress or phone number. Thanks for the response! Msg#:36042 *INK* 12/22/90 10:57:29 From: MICHAEL MCCORKLE To: JEFF BACHIOCHI (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 35911 (CROSSPOINT SW TECH TIPS) Jeff, Thanks for the help! Msg#:35812 *INK* 12/15/90 17:19:43 From: RICHARD S. TEAL To: ED NISLEY (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 33884 (FURNACE CONTROL) Thanks for the info. I've been off on vacation & business for over a month and a half. I plan to finish my furnace controller between Christmas & New Year. I'll let you know if anything interesting comes of it. Msg#:35865 *INK* 12/17/90 23:07:48 From: JONATHAN HENDRY To: ALL Subj: APPLETALK => PARALLEL Anyone have any ideas of how to interface a parallel printer (Canon BJ10e) to a Mac with Appletalk? Or should I just settle for a serial-parallel interface and sneakernet? The real problems for me are 1) the Appletalk-related circuitry, and 2) how to include a small buffer (arounfd 256k). Any help or suggestions would help. Jonathan Hendry Msg#:35873 *INK* 12/18/90 02:35:30 From: FRANK HENRIQUEZ To: JONATHAN HENDRY Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 35865 (APPLETALK => PARALLEL) Are you sure you want to go from Appletalk (a serial network PROTOCOL ) to your parallel printer? if you do, then you have to have a micro sitting on the Appletalk network, and working with it. Try Shiva - I think they make all sorts of doodads to hang off an Appletalk network - things like modems, ethernet nodes, etc. Maybe even a parallel adaptor. If you just want to print on the printer from the Mac, Microsoft (!) used to make a box that plugged into one of the Mac serial ports (RS-422) and converted the serial data to a parallel stream. You may find it surplus for well under $50. I think a few other companies make parallel port adaptors (and still sell them). I'd stay away from trying to design an Appletalk to Parallel interface, unless you have a LOT of time on your hands, know (or are willing to learn) the ins and outs of LANs in general (and AppleTalk in particular - I think it's called LocalTalk now) and have an employer willing to pay you large sumsof money for your effort; it doesn't sound like a fun project. Msg#:35871 *INK* 12/18/90 01:26:53 From: SANJAYA VATUK To: ED NISLEY (Rcvd) Subj: FURNACE MACROS Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't there a slight inconsistency in the AddDPTR macro in the Furnace macros.inc file? If you add a register or direct byte, it is not destroyed in the process, but if you add the accumulator, it is. I think? I've been trying to convert some of these for use with the latest Pseudo-Sam cross assembler (a dirty job, but someone's....), and I want to be sure to get it right - this is my first attempt at macros. Also, could you tell me what the parm is in the GetCTable macro? IFNB? Thanks for the inspiration, -- Sanj Msg#:35970 *INK* 12/20/90 14:22:38 From: ED NISLEY To: SANJAYA VATUK (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 35871 (FURNACE MACROS) If you can find an 8051 instruction that _isn't_ inconsistent, be sure to tell me about it... Most of those macros are one-liners for just that reason; you have to look at the code to make sure it's doing what you expect. With only one line, there's not much room for misinterpretation... it pretty much does what you read right there. You just have to remember what it does long enough to use it; I like editors with two source windows so I can review both files at the same time! If the parameter isn't blank (which is what IFNB tests for: think of If Not Blank), the macro emits code to save and restore registers that would otherwise get clobbered. I used that convention in a bunch of the macros; turns out that I almost never use the parameter, though, because most of the time you were going to reload DPTR (or whatever) with something new right away. The "sv" is short for "save" and is a good example of why I should spell those things out... but I was afraid "save" would conflict with some obscure assembler keyword. Msg#:36102 *INK* 12/25/90 22:53:08 From: SANJAYA VATUK To: ED NISLEY (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 35970 (FURNACE MACROS) Aaaahh! Thanks a bunch, and happy holidays to you and Mary. -- Sanj Msg#:36020 *INK* 12/21/90 22:47:02 From: KENNETH SCHARF To: ALL Subj: MAGNETIC ANTI GRAVITY The "little atlas" magnetic anti gravity project that I mentioned was in the may 1966 issue of popular electronics. If anyone wants a photo copy, send me an sase with 45 cents postage. Kenneth Scharf, 851 sw 64 terrace, north lauderdale Fl 33068. Msg#:36051 *INK* 12/22/90 22:10:55 From: MIKE RAPP To: ED NISLEY (Rcvd) Subj: FISH O.K., my curiousity has gotten the best of me. What are those fishy things in the background area of the two color CRT photos in your column in issue #18? -- Mike Msg#:36155 *INK* 12/27/90 10:31:21 From: ED NISLEY To: MIKE RAPP (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 36051 (FISH) One of the nice things about OS/2 is that all those CPU cycles that used to go down the drain now do useful work: they push little fish around on the screen background... Those photos came from my 8514 display (1024x768x256 colors) courtesy of John Ridges' ANIMATE backdrop program for OS/2 PM. I've got it set up to pick one of AQUARIUM, FIREWORKS, or SPACE when PM starts up; it soaks up all surplus CPU cycles from that point on. One of these days I'm going to get around to doing something useful with those cycles, but for now... Msg#:36350 *INK* 01/03/91 00:05:51 From: MIKE RAPP To: ED NISLEY (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 36155 (FISH) Thanks. Maybe now I can justify the hardware for OS/2. We have this cat that has a serious case of cabin fever during the winter & would love the fish (-: -- Mike Msg#:36381 *INK* 01/03/91 15:20:51 From: ED NISLEY To: MIKE RAPP (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 36350 (FISH) Cheaper you should buy a salt-water aqarium... less maintenance, too... Msg#:36508 *INK* 01/06/91 23:54:16 From: MIKE RAPP To: ED NISLEY (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 36381 (FISH) Thanks again. I'll keep it in mind. -- Mike Msg#:36069 *INK* 12/23/90 16:05:52 From: CLYDE E. MCMURDY To: ARLEN FLETCHER (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 34139 (HYDROPONICS) Greetings..... I was just browsing through the message base when I happened across your thread. I am very interested in setting up my to marine tanks for monitoring PH, Water temp,level, salinity and whatever else I can automate. Please, drop a line on what you have done and are planning on doing. I should have no problem justifying some expenditures to the wife if it means less hassle (and healthier fish) for the aquariums. Thanks in advance- Clyde McMurdy :-) !!! Msg#:36086 *INK* 12/24/90 22:35:40 From: DANIEL L. MILLER To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: HYDROPONICS Hi Steve. I visited the Fiesta grocery store in Clear Lake, Texas a South Houston Suburb. The store's feature is a three story high brilliantly lit hydropoonic growing room visible through the produce section by a three story glass wall. Rene Garcia is in charge and gave me a tour. Thr growing area is about 250 x 45 feet and has a separate room for seed germination. Lighting is on about 6 foot centers about 15 feet above the plants, metal halide of some sort I think. The stores computer (!) also monitors the temperature and co2 and calculates energy consumption of the heating/cooling required. The computer is aparently from AC engineering or AC consulting located in Houston. The store is across from NASA clear lake. Nasa by the way has projects in hydroponics and xenoponics with the xenoponics unit in clear lake. I think its growing stuff in some light weight growing mix, not native soil. The store currently uses Nutrient film technique with small rectangular channels about 1 inch high by 2 inches wide with a drip emitter in each end of the about 10 foot long channel. seedlings are started in a cellulose plug about 1 inch in diameter and transplanted into a 1 inch hole in the channel. Current crops include herbs, and lots of tomatoes and letuce. Rene plans to offer some sort of spray system in the future to allow root crops! Also plans some flowers to add interest. Msg#:36100 *INK* 12/25/90 22:20:41 From: STEVEN S MITCHELL To: ALL Subj: NONVOLATILE RAM MODULE Hello. Does anyone know what static ram chip to put in the non-volatile ram module featured in CCI in Aug/Sept 1990? I wnat it to simulate a 27256 chip. I have a comuter with an emtpy socket that I can't wait to fill! Thank you, Steve Mitchell Msg#:36128 *INK* 12/26/90 10:17:45 From: JEFF BACHIOCHI To: STEVEN S MITCHELL Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 36100 (NONVOLATILE RAM MODULE) Steven, Most SRAM manufacturers make 32Kx8 devices. Finding the right part number to order (which indicates 1uA stand-by power) is another story. Since the original introduction of the DALLAS device, which has a non-replaceable battery, a few other manufacturers besides SONY have introduced acceptable super-low-power-RAMs. NEC uPD43256A-LL HITACHI HM62256LP-SL jeff Msg#:36213 *INK* 12/29/90 15:05:53 From: ARLEN FLETCHER To: CLYDE E. MCMURDY (Rcvd) Subj: MARINE AQUARIUM MONITORING Well, at this point everything is "on the drawing board." Other than picking the same MAXIM chip that Steve did in his greenhouse article, I haven't made much progress. I have purchased the micromint 68HC11 RTC board, and am anxiously waiting for delivery... I think it might be the easy method for doing the control work. The Hydroponics monitoring stuff measures exactly the same values that are important to Marine Aquarists - pH, Temp, pO2, Conductivity, etc... so whatever Steve comes up with ought to transfer directly to our application. Keep me up-to-date on your progress! Arlen Msg#:36333 *INK* 01/02/91 14:20:41 From: BLAIR A. ROWLEY To: ANYBODY Subj: VCR DATA BACKUP In issue 17, Oct/Nov CCI, pg 100, there is an Honorabel Mention for the design of a vcr data backup card by winifred Washington. I am in need of this capability. Does anyone know if this card or one like it is available on the market.I have the capacity to build one from a kit of from a circuit with parts list. Msg#:36451 *INK* 01/05/91 12:58:42 From: BOB PADDOCK To: KEN DAVIDSON (Rcvd) Subj: RTC MODEM? Any plans to make a MODEM that fits on the RTC stack? I'm looking for a 1200 or 2400 baud unit, with DAA, part-68, ect... Msg#:36572 *INK* 01/08/91 10:42:16 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: BOB PADDOCK (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 36451 (RTC MODEM?) Sorry, but no plans at this time. The response we've gotten to other "modem-on-a-board" products that we've done (COMM180 and BCC18) has been underwhelming enough not to warrant a great effort to put one on the RTC bus. Most people are happier using an external modem which costs less, runs faster, and is easily upgraded. Msg#:36618 *INK* 01/09/91 07:38:16 From: BOB PADDOCK To: KEN DAVIDSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 36572 (RTC MODEM?) All true, but in my case they won't fit. I'll come up with some thing... Msg#:36699 *INK* 01/10/91 13:52:11 From: ED NISLEY To: KEN DAVIDSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 36572 (RTC MODEM?) Hey, how about one of those little bitty pocket modems for PCs? They're just about big enough for a phone jack on one end and the DB-25 on the other... strap the sucker down on an RTC board and it's done! Of course, the markup would be something to behold... ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Msg#:36333 *INK* 01/02/91 14:20:41 From: BLAIR A. ROWLEY To: ANYBODY Subj: VCR DATA BACKUP In issue 17, Oct/Nov CCI, pg 100, there is an Honorabel Mention for the design of a vcr data backup card by winifred Washington. I am in need of this capability. Does anyone know if this card or one like it is available on the market.I have the capacity to build one from a kit of from a circuit with parts list. Msg#:36350 *INK* 01/03/91 00:05:51 From: MIKE RAPP To: ED NISLEY (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 36155 (FISH) Thanks. Maybe now I can justify the hardware for OS/2. We have this cat that has a serious case of cabin fever during the winter & would love the fish (-: -- Mike Msg#:36381 *INK* 01/03/91 15:20:51 From: ED NISLEY To: MIKE RAPP (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 36350 (FISH) Cheaper you should buy a salt-water aqarium... less maintenance, too... Msg#:36508 *INK* 01/06/91 23:54:16 From: MIKE RAPP To: ED NISLEY (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 36381 (FISH) Thanks again. I'll keep it in mind. -- Mike Msg#:36451 *INK* 01/05/91 12:58:42 From: BOB PADDOCK To: KEN DAVIDSON (Rcvd) Subj: RTC MODEM? Any plans to make a MODEM that fits on the RTC stack? I'm looking for a 1200 or 2400 baud unit, with DAA, part-68, ect... Msg#:36572 *INK* 01/08/91 10:42:16 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: BOB PADDOCK (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 36451 (RTC MODEM?) Sorry, but no plans at this time. The response we've gotten to other "modem-on-a-board" products that we've done (COMM180 and BCC18) has been underwhelming enough not to warrant a great effort to put one on the RTC bus. Most people are happier using an external modem which costs less, runs faster, and is easily upgraded. Msg#:36618 *INK* 01/09/91 07:38:16 From: BOB PADDOCK To: KEN DAVIDSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 36572 (RTC MODEM?) All true, but in my case they won't fit. I'll come up with some thing... Msg#:36699 *INK* 01/10/91 13:52:11 From: ED NISLEY To: KEN DAVIDSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 36572 (RTC MODEM?) Hey, how about one of those little bitty pocket modems for PCs? They're just about big enough for a phone jack on one end and the DB-25 on the other... strap the sucker down on an RTC board and it's done! Of course, the markup would be something to behold... Msg#:36452 *INK* 01/05/91 13:10:22 From: PETER MONTGOMERY To: CAROL SCOTT Subj: HC11&STEPPER MOTORS Carol, The Cybernetic CY500 is an indexer chip. You send data to it regarding base speed, max speed, accel, decel, number of pulses, etc and it does the hard work of actually generating pulses with the appropriate ramps. It definitely makes life easier regarding the nterfacing of stepper motors. however, it is not an inexpensive chip ($250 or more as I recall) as it has a limited market. you can generate the pulses yourself using any counter/iimer chip, but it requires that your software do a lot of time critical work. Assembly is the only way to go for a project like this if you expect to get any sort of fast top speed out of the motor (especially if you are micro-stepping and need to generate a LOT of pulses. I've worked quite a lot with steppers doing motion control work in the special effects field of the film industry. Hope this has been some help. Msg#:36488 *INK* 01/06/91 10:05:42 From: CLYDE E. MCMURDY To: PETER M. BASCH Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 33763 (PGA/VGA) I too, am interested in buying a PGA (My wife won't let me buy a VGA..."What do you need that for?". Where is your source and do you know if they have others? Thanks in advance, Clyde M. Msg#:36564 *INK* 01/08/91 08:48:15 From: ERIC SCHUYLER To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: CONTINUOUS EDGE GRAPHICS (CEG) Has anyone looked into the new CEG chip for VGA cards? It is supposed to give the equivalent of MUCH higher resolution by using pixels with interpolated color values. I just got a data sheet from Analog Devices about it. According to my sales rep, they don't want to sell it to end-users, only to OEM and VGA board manufacturers. Maybe if CCI and/or Micromint could arrange a quantity purchase??? The chip is relatively inexpensive (~$40) and it REALLY makes a standard VGA look GREAT! It does require special software drivers, very few of which exist now (Autocad and one other, I think). Anybody got a good idea about how to get some of these beauties? Msg#:36603 *INK* 01/08/91 23:04:19 From: DANIEL J. BECKER To: ANYONE Subj: PGA TO VGA ADAPTATIONS Concerning J. Conrad Hubert's article on PGA monitors displaying VGA graphics: I had a bad case of Deja Vu reading about Mr. Hubert's modifi- cations. I recently modified a Hitachi monitor from an Apollo workstation for VGA use. It boasts a 1024 X 768 resoloution with a 0.27 mm dot pitch. If you look around, one can be had cheaply. I purchased it at a surplus sale for $35. It was designed for a 48.8 khz horizontal scan rate. Attempts to slow the scan rate to VGA's 31.5 khz caused a rise in CRT anode High voltage about 1 KV per khz reduction. I spent a lot of time trying to "detune" the flyback's primary with small (500 pf typ.) H.V. caps. I had only limited success with this try. Eventually, I solved the problem by installing a sub-regulator for the horizontal output's power supply. I lowered the original +120V supply to +90V with a three transistor regulator. This 14-inch CRT required about 500 ma of horizontal collector current, so I dissipated about ten of the fifteen "extra" watts with a series resistor. One other thing: The horizontal sync polarity is inverted between text and graphics modes. A toggle switch to select graphics modes is pretty inconvenient with software packages that switch often, like Orcad. I refined my design by detecting sync polarity with a one shot and a D flip flop. The one shot is set for a timing interval about twenty percent longer than the pulse width. The original sync is connected to the D input of the flip flop. The lagging edge one shot's output clocks the flip flop. This causes the flip flop to sample the sync at a time that determines what polarity sync must be. The output of the flip flop, of course, connects to the XOR 1 of 2 selector. This works equally wll for both the horizontal and vertical syncs. Just set the one shots' time constants appropriately for each circuit. (About 6.0 usec Horizontal, 100 usec Vertical.) It, of course, is easier to purchase a multisync monitor, but it has been a lot of fun learing video the "hard but sure" way! - Dan Becker Msg#:36626 *INK* 01/09/91 09:24:36 From: JEFF BACHIOCHI To: DANIEL J. BECKER Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 36603 (PGA TO VGA ADAPTATIONS) Dan, Nice description! ...and a neat way to determine sync polarity, thanks for sharing that. jeff Msg#:37503 *INK* 01/29/91 23:22:30 From: DAVE EWEN To: DANIEL J. BECKER Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 36603 (PGA TO VGA ADAPTATIONS) Hey Dan, now I like that pulse-width detector better than the dc-average level detector you had suggested earlier... Is the next phase of this project going to be full multi-sync capability? What you need is a SVGA card... (you say your monitor was a mentor? I don't remember you telling me that). Msg#:36701 *INK* 01/10/91 15:43:56 From: JON PONDER To: DAVID PENROSE Subj: OPTICAL ENCODER HI, I AM LOOKING FOR A SOURCE FOR AN OPTICAL ENCODER. LOOKS AS IF YOU USED ONE IN ISSUE 17 (DESIGN CONTEST, THIRD PLACE, COST EFFECTIVE CATEGORY) ON YOUR ELECTRONIC COMBINATION LOCK. IF YOU CAN HELP ME YOU CAN CALL 1-512-835-8777 WK HRS CDT, OR LEAVE ME A MSG HERE. THANK YOU, JON PONDER Msg#:36739 *INK* 01/11/91 13:55:17 From: STEVE CIARCIA To: JON PONDER (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 36701 (OPTICAL ENCODER) Digi-Key sells optical encoders. I think they were around $25. --Steve Msg#:36747 *INK* 01/11/91 17:41:57 From: JON PONDER To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 36739 (OPTICAL ENCODER) THANKS, JON Msg#:36748 *INK* 01/11/91 17:53:14 From: JON PONDER To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 36739 (OPTICAL ENCODER) BYE THE WAY, I CAN FIND THE PHONE NUMBER FOR DIGI-KEY, IT WOULD BE NICE IF YOU HAD IT HANDY. THANKS AGAIN Msg#:36752 *INK* 01/11/91 21:27:36 From: PAUL PETERSEN To: JON PONDER (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 36748 (OPTICAL ENCODER) jon, digi-key (800)344-4539. the encoder shown on pg 137 is a clarostat. also, i distinctly remember seeing one advertized in the after-market catalogs, surplus ect.. i get so many every month but i'll keep it in mind. i like to breeze thru them during coffee breaks.... cheers Msg#:36840 *INK* 01/14/91 09:00:48 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: JON PONDER (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 36748 (OPTICAL ENCODER) Go to the otes section from the main menu and look at the list of vendors and suppliers. They are in that list. Msg#:36843 *INK* 01/14/91 09:55:49 From: BURT BROWN To: JON PONDER (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 36748 (OPTICAL ENCODER) Digi-Key: 1-800-344-4539 Msg#:36895 *INK* 01/15/91 05:28:57 From: DALE NASSAR To: CURT FRANKLIN (Rcvd) Subj: LPT PORT ARTICLE Curt, Would you be interested in an article on interfacing to the PC's parallel port? I mean a good complete one describing every aspect of the standard configuration (and possible modifications) as well as the wealth of great high-precision high-speed applications possible. Judging from the BBS messages. I think there would be considerable interest in this, especially because one can construct sophisticated acquisition hardware and simply connect to a spare (or software-selected) LPT port and thus avoid constructing a expansion-slot card. --Dale Msg#:36961 *INK* 01/17/91 10:29:08 From: CURT FRANKLIN To: DALE NASSAR (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 36895 (LPT PORT ARTICLE) Dale - Sounds good. Get an outline or proposal for me and we'll go from there. Thanks for the idea--I'm looking forward to working with you again. Curt Msg#:36989 *INK* 01/18/91 02:19:02 From: FRANK HENRIQUEZ To: BURT BROWN (Rcvd) Subj: RTC-HC11 QUESTIONS I noticed in figure 3b that JP15 has two *DS signals. Is this a typo? Also - and this is a minor point - I'm not sure that the PAL chip select equations need the E clock; in most 68xx, all you need is R/W * E for a good data transfer. By tieing in the CS to E, the time for a valid address is reduced by 50%. This shouldn't be a problem most of the time, but it means that CS may go out of spec for slow memory or peripherals. Msg#:37003 *INK* 01/18/91 09:29:44 From: BURT BROWN To: FRANK HENRIQUEZ (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 36989 (RTC-HC11 QUESTIONS) Hi, thanks for the comments. It's nice to have somebody look over the schematic. The extra *DS is connected to what is normally the *PSEN line on the RTC expansion bus. It probably really should have been connected to *RD but none of our present expansion boards use this signal. Those PAL equations in the article are way out of date; although some of the chip selects (RAM and EPROM) still have E in the equations. I think I probably did that just to make things a little easier at the begining. From the looks of things, you can lengthen CS by about 150 nS if you need it. As it stands, you now have about 250 nS. --Burt Msg#:37018 *INK* 01/19/91 02:27:21 From: FRANK HENRIQUEZ To: BURT BROWN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 37003 (RTC-HC11 QUESTIONS) Thanks for the quick reply! Actually, if you relabled one of the spare *DS as *E, (even though they are the same signal), it may not be as odd looking on the schematics. Msg#:37019 *INK* 01/19/91 02:38:43 From: DAVID RIEWE To: KEN DAVIDSON (Rcvd) Subj: ONDI I enjoyed that articl even though I cam in mid-stream. I have been planning to order Ciarcia's Circuit Cellar Volume VI. Do Steve's Books parallel projects in Circuit Cellar Mag? Later, David Msg#:37110 *INK* 01/21/91 13:05:12 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: DAVID RIEWE (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 37019 (ONDI) The Ciarcia's Circuit Cellar books are only reprints of articles which appeared in BYTE. Volume 7 is the last volume since there aren't any more articles in BYTE. Circuit Cellar INK isn't available in book form at all. At one time we had an offset reprint of the first year, but that was sold out numerous times and we have no plans for doing another printing at least in the near future. About all you can do is order back issues. Msg#:37243 *INK* 01/24/91 10:32:42 From: STEVE CIARCIA To: DAVID RIEWE (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 37019 (ONDI) First year issues of CC INK are still available. Call Rose at 203-875-2199. --STeve Msg#:37051 *INK* 01/20/91 06:11:21 From: DAVID MEED To: CURT FRANKLIN (Rcvd) Subj: UPCOMING CCINK ARTICLES?? I was wondering if you have any video articles coming up. I was thinking of a home video editing suite. The imagewise is a start-but not color. I am kind of interested in a S-VHS quality setup that would allow you to mix the output of 2 or 3 vcrs. David Meed Msg#:37099 *INK* 01/21/91 09:58:38 From: CURT FRANKLIN To: DAVID MEED (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 37051 (UPCOMING CCINK ARTICLES??) We are planning video articles for the next year, including VCR editing controller modules. Stay tuned for more info... Msg#:37146 *INK* 01/22/91 01:26:44 From: JOHN SCHERER To: SYSOP (Rcvd) Subj: IBM PRINTER PORT I need help on making my printer port (lpt1 or 2) bi-directional. my printer ports reside on my system board but I can disable them and use a modified printer card. My problem is how do I do the mod.? is there a file here that would explan how I do this? Thank in advance. John Scherer Msg#:37197 *INK* 01/23/91 09:26:57 From: ED NISLEY To: JOHN SCHERER (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 37146 (IBM PRINTER PORT) Run through the message base on this one; it's also covered in INK #2, Steve's DDT-51 project in BYTE (Aug & Sept 88), and a few other INK articles. Msg#:37227 *INK* 01/24/91 01:40:43 From: JOHN SCHERER To: ED NISLEY (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 37197 (IBM PRINTER PORT) Thanks ED.. I found the article you are talking about.. Msg#:37182 *INK* 01/23/91 03:18:17 From: TOM MOORE To: ED NISLEY (Rcvd) Subj: INK TOPICS Just wondering if you've considered doing a column on surplus and low-cost CCD chips. As you probably know, Timeline has sold some 256-cell and 4096-cell line scanning CCD chips. Sylvania (I believe) has some chips that go for about $30 bare, and will do a good job for simple closed circuit work, etc. The cost is bound to drop and more appear on the surplus market; reminds me of LCD's. Articles starting with the basics of charge packets and going onto maybe how color work is done... Anyways, like I said, just wondering....what do you think? Msg#:37192 *INK* 01/23/91 09:25:22 From: ED NISLEY To: TOM MOORE (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 37182 (INK TOPICS) There must be something going around... Steve is talking about cheap image recognition (again!), Analog Devices just send their DSP development kit, and you think CCDs are interesting. Hm... Msg#:37261 *INK* 01/24/91 21:46:36 From: DAN RAHME To: JEFF BACHIOCHI (Rcvd) Subj: NO BLACK MAGIC Hello Jeff, My name is Dan Rahme. Really enjoyed your last article about magnetic levitation - so much so that I'd like tinker a little myself. The only reference I saw to the electro-magnet used was in figure 6 where it's labeled L1 Guardian 12 V. When you get a chance would you post the supplier's addres and phone number for me? ; ; Many Thanx, ; ; Dan Rahme Msg#:37286 *INK* 01/25/91 11:47:30 From: JEFF BACHIOCHI To: DAN RAHME (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 37261 (NO BLACK MAGIC) Dan, Guardian Electric Mfg Co, 1550 W Carrol Ave, Chicago, Ill, 60607 I have two surplus Solenoids. The 12V model I used has lost its label, however a stronger 24V model (which looks the same 'cept bigger) is model #A420-O65297-00 UNI-GUARD II. I don't have a data book on the parts so I can't verify this is a good number. A call to Guardian at (312) 243-1100 would answer that question! Got any friends in the junkyard business? With a magnetic crane we could float an auto! Or at least erase everyones diskettes within a one block area :-) jeff Msg#:37276 *INK* 01/25/91 07:40:35 From: ERIC BOHLMAN To: KENNETH SCHARF (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 34349 (HELP) The best way is to use a software loop to generate the time interval, and calibrate it against the 18.2 Hz interrupt. Msg#:37284 *INK* 01/25/91 10:57:36 From: DAVID RIEWE To: KEN DAVIDSON (Rcvd) Subj: CIRCUIT CELLAR BOOKS Thanks for clarifying that. I have heard lots of good reports on the books and think I will go with getting the one which covers home control, (do not have list in front of me now). By the way, I just finished building and testing some add-on memory. I am hoping to use it to allow testing of stand-alone systems by... 1 - get code working by testing at address above MTOP using the BASIC-52 controller. 2 - When the code is working the way I like, re-assemble at 0000h 3 - Strip the Intel format (using basi-kit utility) and upload to my expansion board (say at 0a000h), where the ram is battery backed. 4 - power down and set address select jumper on expansion ram to 0000h, EA on 8052 low, and pull out IC1 ram. 5 - Apply power and watch it run. Am I going out of my way in this approach? If it sounds ignorant I'll give the excuse that all previous micro experiance was on a DeVry 8085 trainer with hex pad input, the idea of hex uploads is pretty new to me :-) I would like to say I like testing assembly routines from the BASIC-52 shell. For example, I had a getstring routine which before accepting a character would call a 'testlegal' routine to see if it was valid. testlegal would do a string search on whatever string was located at the LEGAL location. Using basic, and part of my *.lst output I could quickly check memory in a variety of ways to see if the pointer at LEGAL was set to point correctly at whatever string I needed to compare with. The funny part for me was everything looked good yet getstring kept bombing...Turned out that in a nested routine I was modifying the same register that getstring used to keep track of max # of characters allowed...:-) Something like that would have been better suited for a simulator. Oh, I saw an add for the DDT-51 and noticed it showed it requiring a parallel printer port. I have a serial printer port (bios remaps lpt1 to the serial port), and was wondering if It could work with a serial inter-face? I know that is Ed's project, but it just popped off the top of my head...and now I realize how much time I've spent on-line...and not when the phone rates are low! Thanks again for the reply and info. David Msg#:37290 *INK* 01/25/91 12:32:19 From: ED NISLEY To: DAVID RIEWE (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 37284 (CIRCUIT CELLAR BOOKS) As far as running the DDT-51 from a serial port, the current version won't work... although the PC can remap parallel printer output to a serial port, the DDT-51 doesn't know from that -- and you _don't_ plug a parallel printer into a serial port, even if the two connectors look about the same! Msg#:37292 *INK* 01/25/91 14:22:18 From: STEVE REYER To: ALL Subj: CCI DESIGN CONTEST #3 Greetings. Did I miss something, or has there been no announcement of this year's CCINK Design Contest? I didn't spot the expected blurb in issue 18 or 19. Maybe I turned the pages too fast. Thanks. Steve Msg#:37405 *INK* 01/28/91 10:38:38 From: CURT FRANKLIN To: STEVE REYER (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 37292 (CCI DESIGN CONTEST #3) You didn't miss anything. The annoucnement of Design Contest #3 will be in issue #20. We delayed by an issue in order to try and set up some more interesting contest possibilities. (We're still working on them, so I can't say anything about them). Curt Msg#:37481 *INK* 01/29/91 12:07:17 From: BOB PADDOCK To: CURT FRANKLIN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 37405 (CCI DESIGN CONTEST #3) When do we get to see any of the designes from the last contests? Msg#:37485 *INK* 01/29/91 13:31:30 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: BOB PADDOCK (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 37481 (CCI DESIGN CONTEST #3) Open up the issue of Circuit Cellar INK that just arrived in your mailbox (#19). The Mini-DSP project that appears there was one of the winners from the last contest. MITEE Mouse III that appeared in issues 15 and 16 was a winner in the first contest, as was the DRAM tester coming up in issue 20. Also coming in issue 20 is the MIDI sound playback unit that was a winner in the second contest. The winners are being published, really they are. It just takes time to coerce (bribe? beg?) some of them to actually write an article. Msg#:37304 *INK* 01/25/91 21:54:50 From: BILL RICHMAN To: ALL Subj: UNIVERSAL/ONE FOR ALL CONTROLLER Just wondering if anybody out there has the BBS number for the "Universal Electronics" BBS which has the database for downloading IR remote codes which was mentioned on page 104 of CC-INK Feb/Mar 1991. I've got a "One for All" control, and I would really like to be able to download codes for my new electronic toys. The thing that really got my interest up, though, was the mention of the ability to send any of the stored codes under control of the serial port which is also used to download the codes to the device. Also, no mention was made of the pinouts for the 3-pin serial connector in the battery compartment of the device (and is it RS-232 or TTL serial or what?). Since my VCR, tuner/amp, cable box, picture-in-picture adapter, and now my lights and appliances (through the IR gateway to the X-10 system) all respond to IR control, it would be great to be able to have the IBM-PC that runs the security system also be able to "push the buttons" on all the remotes, and this sounds like a great way to do it easily. Any ideas? -Bill Msg#:37346 *INK* 01/27/91 09:13:24 From: PAUL REISINGER To: BILL RICHMAN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 37304 (UNIVERSAL/ONE FOR ALL CONTROLLER) Bill, I can not answer any of your questions, but a did find out some interesting stuff about the One For All. I called Home Control Concepts (see page 55 of INK) to buy an One For All and by luck got their tech guy, Mark. He said that they had a run on the One For All and were out of stock for a week or two. I explained to Mark that page 104 of INK might be the reason for the heavy recent demand. Anyway, he's sending me a Jasco (I think that is the correct spelling) remote instead. He said is made by Universal, it only emulates 8 rather than 13 different remotes but was about 10 bucks cheaper than the One For All. He pulled the battery cover and it did have the three pin holes. Now the interesting stuff - Mark said he was very surprised that anyone could just dial the Universal BBS, download some files, and upgrade their remote. Universal made them sign all kinds of copyright and licensing agreement before Universal would give them the right to do that. He's going to look into it. I suggested he post his findings on the INK BBS, and that his company consider offering a kit with the required cable and software (Mark if you are listening I'd be glad to Beta test the kit for you). In the mean time I hope Ken Davidson posts some detailed info about making a cable, and example " button pushing " software. -Paul Msg#:37417 *INK* 01/28/91 11:21:40 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: BILL RICHMAN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 37304 (UNIVERSAL/ONE FOR ALL CONTROLLER) The BBS number for Universal is (714) 939-1041. They do require that you sign and return a form that states that the database is their property and may not be used for any other purpose than with their remotes. Seems perfectly fair to me. Upon receiving the completed form, they'll give you file access. As for the serial cable, I don't know what's in it or what the signal levels are at the 3-pin connector. I received the cable with the remote from Universal. I believe the 3-pin connector uses TTL levels and there are some levels shifters in the cable connectors. There is also a file on their BBS that details the software aspects of the serial connection including the remote button press. There is even some sample code for doing it. If this sort of interest keeps up, I may have to do a more detailed article for the upcoming home automation special section. I'll have to talk to my contact there about what kind of details they'd be willing to see published. Msg#:37499 *INK* 01/29/91 22:55:50 From: BILL RICHMAN To: PAUL REISINGER (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 37346 (UNIVERSAL/ONE FOR ALL CONTROLLER) Well, guess what? "Just anyone" can't dial the "Universal" BBS to download the codes for their remote. I called the company too, and after driving some poor secretary halfway to distraction, I got to talk to a guy who explained the system to me. He said that Sears has a contract with them to update the remotes (naturally, my local Sears has never heard of such a thing... ) among other companies. He said that you had to sign an agreement to sell their products in some minimum volume, and agree to update the remote of anyone who had a "One for All", free of charge. I had him send me the agreement just for laughs, and got it today in the mail. From what I can make out, it doesn't require you to do anything - it only states that everything you get from their BBS is their property (which I find a bit strange, seeing as how the codes were originated by the manufacturers who made the individual remotes). It gives instructions for calling their BBS and printing out the License Agreement to get authorization to download their database. I think I might try filling out the agreement and sending it to see what happens. All it appears to require is that you not give out what you get on their BBS and that you will only use it to update your database. Worth a shot I guess. I hate to have to go through so much hassle for information that should have been in my remote control when I bought it. (They never mentioned in their ad that the device has the codes built in rather than being a learning remote, and that not all the devices in the catalog of codes shipped with the device were actually stored in it. Apparently there isn't enough memory, but I would have liked to have been aware of that prior to purchasing it...) Msg#:37500 *INK* 01/29/91 22:59:42 From: BILL RICHMAN To: KEN DAVIDSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 37417 (UNIVERSAL/ONE FOR ALL CONTROLLER) How did you manage to get a cable with your remote? I bought mine through Heathkit and there was no mention of a cable. Could you possibly upload a description of the cable and associated electronics here, or would that be a violation of Universal's patent? Msg#:37532 *INK* 01/30/91 09:00:55 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: BILL RICHMAN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 37500 (UNIVERSAL/ONE FOR ALL CONTROLLER) Like I said, I don't know what is in the cable. It has a 9-pin D connector on one end and a 3-pin connector on the other. The 3-pin connector is potted and molded to fit into the groove above the batteries and around the top battery. You should be able to purchase one from Universal. My contact at Universal is the one who sent me the package, so I have no way of knowing what is included with the typical retail unit. Describing a circuit or how it works is never a violation of any patent. Patent contents are a matter of public record. Manufacturing hundreds of copies and trying to sell them yourself would constitute a violation, however. Msg#:37541 *INK* 01/30/91 09:29:22 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: BILL RICHMAN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 37499 (UNIVERSAL/ONE FOR ALL CONTROLLER) (Didn't I just say that?) Msg#:38283 *INK* 02/17/91 20:26:54 From: GEORGE COHN To: BILL RICHMAN Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 37304 (UNIVERSAL/ONE FOR ALL CONTROLLER) I just spent an hour browsing through the Universal Electronics BBS. I almost felt like I had stepped into Cliff Stoll's "The Cuckoo's Egg." Apparently this is a node on the Fido system and is Unix based. I almost had to go back to re-read "The Cuckoo's Egg" to refresh my knowledge of Unix. To answer what I am sure will be a lot of questions about accessing Universal Electronics database, here is a quote from their BBS (714) 939-1041: -------------------------------------------------------------------------- "Downloading software from this area requires licensing from Universal Electronics, Inc. To become a licensed user of the software, you can call 714-939-7823, leave a message on this bulletin board, or write to Universal Electronics, 1630-B S. Sunkist, Anaheim, CA 92806. To update your ONE-FOR-ALL or ONE-FOR-ALL-II remote control you will need: 1) An IBM/PC/XT/AT or compatible computer. 2) A special Update Cable to connect your serial port to the remote. (If you do not have one call 1-800-242-6821 to order one). 3) The program PLUSH.EXE version 7.95a or later. 4) The ONE-FOR-ALL library OFA123US.LIB ** AND/OR ** the ONE-FOR-ALL-II library OFA2US.LIB. SERIAL.COM 34457 01-13-91 App note on using the remote's serial port" --------------------------------------------------------------------------- I have a couple of their remotes and would like to use one as an interface between my pc based home control program and my TV, Lights, Satellite system, etc. Unfortunately, neither my satellite system nor my specific model of TV was programmed in the remote. I called Universal and they suggested that it might be faster to take the units back to the Sears Repair Center where I bought them as they were an authorized All-in-One Dealer. After leaving one for nearly two weeks and many calls later to Sears, I picked it up and decided to call Universal to see if I could do it myself. I kept getting the "our computer technician is the only one who can do that and he is out on sick leave, a personal day off, permanent vacation, etc." I've heard that Sears may be having some financial difficulties in today's economy. If this is the kind of support they give for products they sell, I can understand why. If anyone successfully interfaces this remote to a pc, I would be happy to purchase the necessary software from you. Thanks. GC Msg#:38519 *INK* 02/23/91 20:17:48 From: DUSAN BENKO To: BILL RICHMAN Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 37304 (UNIVERSAL/ONE FOR ALL CONTROLLER) To anyone interested in IR automated transmit/receive communication I would recommend the IR Master Controller powered from external 5Vdc. Based on the 80C31 - you know how to teach the old dog a new trick. If you are a software type of a guy (or gal) then you'll love the IR <--> RS232 infrared interface from: TECHNOBOX, Inc. 12-B The Ellipse, Suite 300 Mt. Laurel, NJ 08054-2231 (609) 778-5512 This interface will not only learn and re-transmit the IR code, in addition it is capable to modify the code, create new code from scratch, and will function in "reversed mode" that is you can command your PC using VCR's remote. If that's not enough, you can purchase two units and use them as a IR network between two (or more) computers. A nice companion to this unit is a Universal Remote Control from: LONESTAR Division of Planned Technologies, Ltd. 485-31 South Broadway Hickville, NY 11801 I saw it in MCM Electronics catalog for around 35 bucks. I have my from CITIBANK offer for $30. This is a true CREDIT CARD SIZE remote with clock and countdown timer capable of learning up to 85 commands. This is a real miracle on a chip. Runs on two watch batteries for about two years. What the manual won't tell you is that you have to "trick it" to learn the code by pressing the key on the original remote twice in many cases, and therefore this thing will soon end up in the "surplus basket", because people will never find out! Msg#:38603 *INK* 02/25/91 20:27:56 From: TIMOTHY TAYLOR To: DUSAN BENKO (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 38519 (UNIVERSAL/ONE FOR ALL CONTROLLER) I don't want to beat on an old subject, but I've been using several of Circuit Cellars IR Master controller for a couple of years and have been pretty satisfied with the results. I use 'em around the lab for didlin' around and the results have been quite nice. If you are{willing to dig into the beast a bit, nice results can be achievedwd}. Msg#:37339 *INK* 01/27/91 02:02:23 From: DAVID RIEWE To: ED NISLEY (Rcvd) Subj: DDT-51 I missed the articles on the DDT-51, but the add in this issue of Circuit Cellar aroused my interest. Could you recommend a source on add-in cards containing a parrallel port? I would have to set up the parallel port as lpt #2, hopefully that would not be a problem. Thanks for the reply, David Msg#:37410 *INK* 01/28/91 11:04:58 From: ED NISLEY To: DAVID RIEWE (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 37339 (DDT-51) The card comes configured for LPT2 under the reasonable assumption that you've already got LPT1, but has directions for changing the address if you need something else. The PC code tests all of the ports starting from LPT3 downward to find the first bidirectional one and uses that one. Whether the card is compatible with your VAXMATE (lurkers, it turns out I'm working from a mailbox message on this one) is another question that can be answered only by direct experimentation. On the whole we haven't had much trouble, but some clones just flat out have problems with what is really a plain old printer card... As far as cycling goes, I've got mine mounted on a magnetic/wind resistance stand in the basement; I download a bunch of messages from Compuserve and spend the next 45 minutes reading and riding... Msg#:37345 *INK* 01/27/91 05:22:34 From: JONATHAN KIRWAN To: CURT FRANKLIN (Rcvd) Subj: ASTRONOMY ARTICLES Hi, I'm writing to you after reading a letter in the Feb/Mar 1991 issue of The Computer Applications Journal asking for astronomical computing and electronics articles (the Thomas Duprex letter.) I'd like to second his idea. You know the needs and skills of your audience better than anyone but I'd particularly like to see a series of articles on the use of CCD arrays for imaging and tracking. Inexpensive CCD arrays and DSP chips are available and bring this type of project well within the grasp of individuals. And it would add tremendous value to any telescope. The educational value is enormous, too. The experimental study of light, beginning with Newton, has driven every major advance in our understanding of physical nature over the last 300 years and many useful tools in mathematics. Recent examples would include: Maxwell's electromagnetic theory and equation relating the speed of light to elemental electric and magnetic properties; Planck's quantum hypothesis of blackbody radiation; Einstein's special theory of relativity and theory of the photoelectric effect; and the resulting quantum field theories. These and much more came essentially from a study of electromagnetic radiation. I can't think of a subject to better teach a broad and deep understanding of physics and the practical application of a variety of powerful mathematical tools. The Northwest Astronomy Group, here in my area of Oregon, is building a 24-inch observatory that will use the 512x512 and 2048x2048 pixel CCD arrays from Tektronix for tracking and imaging. This telescope will use an active (computer-controlled), segmented secondary mirror with a separate processor for each segment to remove atmospheric refraction errors. The circuits are already designed and are currently being routed. (Tektronix sells their 2kx2k for about $80,000 and the front-illuminated 512x512 for about $7,500. I hear that defective 512x512 parts, many of which would be highly suitable for amateur use, will be selling for about $500.) Please let me know if you decide to pursue projects in this area. Perhaps our astronomy group can help by developing a suitable project or by refering you to others that may be able to help. Jon Msg#:37402 *INK* 01/28/91 10:28:32 From: CURT FRANKLIN To: JONATHAN KIRWAN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 37345 (ASTRONOMY ARTICLES) Jon - We're actively pursuing astronomy-related articles. It sounds like your group has commendably ambitious plans and the resources to bring them to fruition! I'd like to talk to your group about projects for the magazine. Does Northwest Astronomy Group publish a newsletter? If so, could I see a copy? Please keep me informed, and let me know if you'd like to discuss specific plans. Thanks again, Curt Msg#:37414 *INK* 01/28/91 11:07:16 From: ED NISLEY To: JONATHAN KIRWAN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 37345 (ASTRONOMY ARTICLES) Curt, declare a Red Alert Emergency and get this guy on the phone... if you can't wring an article out of him, I want to know why not! Msg#:37678 *INK* 02/02/91 04:48:09 From: JONATHAN KIRWAN To: CURT FRANKLIN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 37402 (ASTRONOMY ARTICLES) Yes, the group does have a newsletter. If you have a FAX number, I'll get a copy sent as quickly as I can. Or I can mail it if you prefer. I've talked to others in the group recently and I believe a good article could be extracted from one or another of us. (Probably me because I opened my big mouth.) WILLMAN-BELL will be publishing two new books in the first part of this year called, "CCD Astronomy" by Christian Buil and "Introduction to Astronomical Image Processing with IMAGEPRO Software: A comprehensive guide to CCD image enhancement on the IBM-PC" by Richard Berry. Mr. Berry's book will include all of the source code along with two diskettes included in the book. Mr. Buil's book will include the complete schematics for an operating CCD camera using the Thomson TH7852 matrix (144x208 pixels and selling for about $170.) I've also noticed that the FAIRBORN PRESS has several books on topics related to electronics and astronomy. The Fairborn Observatory puts a good deal of effort in creating and operating automatic photoelectric telescopes (APTs.) Looking over a list here shows, "The Photoelectric Photometry Handbook", "New Generation Small Telescopes", "Automatic Photoelectric Telescopes", and "Microcomputers in Astronomy I & II", as recent, related books from them. Jon Msg#:37811 *INK* 02/05/91 11:02:01 From: CURT FRANKLIN To: JONATHAN KIRWAN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 37678 (ASTRONOMY ARTICLES) Thanks for the offer. My FAX number is 203/872-2204, or you can mail it to me. Let's continue discussing the article ideas--I'm getting excited about the possibility of some top-notch astronomical applications in Circuit Cellar INK! Curt Msg#:37545 *INK* 01/30/91 10:29:07 From: DALE NASSAR To: CURT FRANKLIN (Rcvd) Subj: PC TIMING Curt, I just got Ink #19 and read the PC stopwatch article. In response to your Editor's note; I used a hi-res timing routine for some microsecond resolution timing of critical .ASM routines for my LA1 project. In one application it allowed me to rule out the use of an INT call and substitute a segment override prefix for a timeout function that worked by reading the BIOS clock ticks; this resulted in over a 400% speed increase. In the article, David mentioned that he was a software guy that found a hardware solution. In my case the exact opposite is true--I am a hardware person and used a software (I guess it was really firmware) solution. I used the 8253 timer #2 (the PC speaker driver) re-programmed to operate in mode 2. In operation, the timer is initialized at the start of the routine to be timed, and stopped at the end of the routine. The count value is then read and converted to microseconds (the clock rate is 1.19 Mhz). With this method I can get readings to about 54ms--though I never needed this much. I think a nice utility would be one that allowed multiple (marked) timers that could each be run multiple times to be placed throughout the assembly code with a record of the timings created on disk. I've been thinking about writing a program that would place the timers at indicated places throughout an .ASM text file and then automatically flush them out after use. --Dale Msg#:37547 *INK* 01/30/91 10:36:39 From: CURT FRANKLIN To: DALE NASSAR (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 37545 (PC TIMING) I know that we're talking about some other article ideas, but I hope you'll put this material into your article-writing queue. Timing on the PC/AT/386 platform is a serious issue, and I'd like to give our readers more info on it in the coming months. Curt Msg#:37665 *INK* 02/01/91 17:27:22 From: BOB ARMSTRONG To: DALE NASSAR (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 37545 (PC TIMING) I just bought the high resolution timer routines for "C" (examples in the fi section) to do some timing with my PC and they worked great. I'd be real interested in trying to understand how you did it. Can your technique be used with a QuickBASIC program? Msg#:37567 *INK* 01/30/91 19:44:49 From: STEVE REYER To: ALL Subj: MINI-DSP Mini-DSP Enthusiasts: The article on the Mini-DSP (CC INK Issue 19) has generated a lot of interest and a few questions. Here are the answers: 1) Sorry, there's no kit available. However, I may be able to help with the TMS320E15 chip. Read on. 2) Several readers have asked about programming the 'E15 chip. Here the story. The software, both source and hex files, should be on the CC INK BBS for downloading. If you are interested in programming the chip's EPROM, refer to the Texas Instruments First Generation TMS320 User's Guide. It describes the exact procedure. The chip's EPROM is programmed in a manner similar to a Texas Instruments TMS27C64 with a 5 volt supply for reading and 12.5 volt programming voltage, but "signature mode" cannot be used. High bytes (of the 16-bit words) need to precede low bytes when using a typical EPROM programmer. A 28-40 pin dip adapter is required (TI part number RTC/PGM320A-06). The price of this adapter is around $100. The data book gives its schematic diagram. I don't recommend trying to program your own without carefully reading the User's Guide discussion of this topic. 3) I wasn't planning to do this, but I am willing to provide preprogrammed TMS320E15JDL chips. I'll have to order the chips (plus postage), check them, program them on my TI DSP development system, test them in the Mini-DSP, package them, ship them, keep records, etc. (A blank chip will cost me about $50.) I'm willing to do the above and sell them at $95 (postage included). Therefore, if you want a preprogrammed TMS320E15, send a check (U.S. funds drawn on a U.S. bank) for $95, made out to me, to: Dr. Steven Reyer P.O. Box 17821 Milwaukee, WI 53217 I'm not selling anything else - no blank 'E15 chips, and no other parts, either. You're on your own there. I may wait several weeks to collect all the orders before ordering the chips. Include your name, address, phone number, and fax number (if you have one). At some point I'll have to end this offer, so if you want one, order now. 4) The published schematic differs slightly from the one that I supplied with the article. Here are the errors: a) The on-off switch is missing. b) On the LM386, pins 2 and 3 are reversed. Pin 2 (-) should be the one that's grounded. c) The lead from the input amplifier to pin 23 on AD7569 should come from pin 1 of the LM358. That is, it should come from the left side of the 1k resistor, not the right side. I'll send a "good" copy of the schematic along with chip orders, or if you send me a self-addressed-stamped-envelope (SASE). Some hints for builders: Keep wires SHORT. The switch connections to the data bus will radiate. You don't want this noise getting into the high-Z op-amp inputs. I built the circuit on a 2" x 4" board with very short leads to the panel mounted switches and pots. Be sure to use all the 0.1 uF capacitors shown. Thanks for all the nice comments and good luck! Steve. Msg#:37608 *INK* 01/31/91 12:39:08 From: ELLERY POTASH To: ALL Subj: PC-AT KEYBOARDS Have been advised by CCI Subscriber that recent issue may have included article on custom keyboard design, including either source code or data/ clock timing/protocols. If true, please advise where I can find it. If not, can anyone advise where I can find such info. Am looking to design what can best be discribed as a custom keyboard, and would appreciate any assistance you may offer. Thanx. - Ellery. Msg#:37651 *INK* 02/01/91 09:35:08 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: ELLERY POTASH (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 37608 (PC-AT KEYBOARDS) In issue #13 (Feb/Mar '90), Bill Curlew described a device that would translate the output of an IBM PC keyboard into a regular serial or parallel data stream for use on non-IBM computers. He had some details about the timing and content of the keyboard data. Take a look around at some recent messages posted here, though. There has been more than one XT/AT keyboard discussion in the past few weeks, with some excellent references mentioned. Search the subject fields using strings like "key" or "PC" or "AT". Msg#:37622 *INK* 01/31/91 21:32:41 From: ROBERTO PUON To: KEN DAVIDSON (Rcvd) Subj: CEBUS AND ISDN Hi! I read your article on CEBus. When I read that the two center wires are going to be free for telephone use in a CEBus system, I wondered if the CEBus (future) standard is taking into account that a new phone system is being born: ISDN (integrated services digital network). ISDN, in a home, will use not two, but four phone wires since unlike today's phones, ISDN will have 3 channels (digital). Two 64Kbit/s channels and one 16Kbit/s channel. If CEBus plans to use all but two wires, either the home owner will have to use separate wires for CEBus, or stick to analog phones. ISDN is still in its baby stages, but it will grow. I suppose the first to use ISDN technology will be businesses, but later, I'm sure it will proliferate into homes. Roberto Puon Msg#:37645 *INK* 02/01/91 09:13:44 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: ROBERTO PUON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 37622 (CEBUS AND ISDN) Either you didn't read carefully enough or I didn't explain it well enough. The POTS on the center two wires was put there primarily so that existing phones could be used in the same jack as CEBus devices without modification. A full implemenation of CEBus would use all four pairs for CEBus TP, and the telephones will be CEBus compatible. The telephone service would come in from the street and go into a CEBus interface box that would take care of retreiving the telephone signal from whatever TP channel the phone happened to end up with. While I haven't heard ISDN mentioned specifically, AT&T is very active on the committee (as are a number of other telephone companies), and I doubt they'd do anything to prevent the two from meshing. I would tend to think that CEBus would make an ISDN transition easier since CEBus-compatible telephones would all end up going through a single interface box. Simply changing that box would make upgrading from POTS to ISDN a much easier proposal than having to upgrade every telephone in the house for ISDN (assuming you've already upgraded them all for CEBus). Msg#:37672 *INK* 02/02/91 02:23:37 From: ROBERTO PUON To: KEN DAVIDSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 37645 (CEBUS AND ISDN) Ok... I see. Msg#:37688 *INK* 02/02/91 13:40:27 From: PAUL PETERSEN To: ROBERTO PUON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 37622 (CEBUS AND ISDN) last weeks ComputerWorld has an article on pg1 titled 'ISDN About To Reach The Masses.' It went on to explain that the BOC's are very busy installing ISDN equiptment and said that home isdn will be available either now or within a year depending on where one lives. In a related story Rochester N.Y. Bell is conducting home trials of isdn. From everything that i read in the technical press, i feel *somewhat* confident in saying that isdn is finally here for home use. cheers Msg#:37742 *INK* 02/04/91 08:26:29 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: PAUL PETERSEN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 37688 (CEBUS AND ISDN) Don't hold your breath waiting for SNET to offer it, though, even to businesses. They tout their incredible lead on fiber-optic technology and feature television commercials with Japanese looking in awe at their wonderful fiber splices, but there are still parts of the state that don't even have touch tone service. They're not even close to offering any kind of ANI service. Over the years, I've been very unimpressed with SNET. Msg#:37762 *INK* 02/04/91 10:34:11 From: JOHN S. FETZIK To: PAUL PETERSEN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 37688 (CEBUS AND ISDN) I read a small news piece somewhere, don't remember where, that said that Bulgaria, I think, was going to go with all ISDN for their phone system. It seems that the present system is so out of date that they might just as well go all the way. JSFetzik Msg#:37777 *INK* 02/04/91 20:26:52 From: PAUL PETERSEN To: KEN DAVIDSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 37742 (CEBUS AND ISDN) reminds me of the time last year when i called snet and asked if i could get an 800 number for my phone. they could'nt answer because i didn't have a business phone. when i asked how much if i -did- have a business phone they still couldn't answer. i finally gave up in frustration..... back to isdn tho, the article said that it would be nynex that would be doing the installation, not snet per se... ... also, in a related story, AT&T has announced a capability that will allow work-at-home folks to call and "turn on/off" a kind of jazzy call-forward scheme for customer service and related job classifications. analysts termed the announcement 'major' and 'significant.' tom peters a techno-guru, sees work-at-home becomming *the* big news working into the next century. he goes so far as to tie federal express/ups into a grand cottage industry that will include assembly lines. tom peters is well regarded in commerce related activities... to keep up with the times i've already started making one-foot square pieces of 1/2 inch pine for all the kitchen table engineering breadboards. thought i'd sell them for $9.95... what do you think....... Msg#:37778 *INK* 02/04/91 20:27:47 From: PAUL PETERSEN To: JOHN S. FETZIK (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 37762 (CEBUS AND ISDN) did they say what they intend to do with all the string...??? Msg#:37804 *INK* 02/05/91 08:49:35 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: PAUL PETERSEN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 37777 (CEBUS AND ISDN) OK. If it was Nynex making the claims for ISDN to residential customers, then I'd believe it, but only for their customer base. That includes New York and all of New England except Connecticut. Nynex isn't going to do anything in Connecticut. I've seen a lot in the popular press and trade journals about home offices. It's definitely something that will be growing in the next few years. Msg#:37810 *INK* 02/05/91 09:36:52 From: JOHN S. FETZIK To: PAUL PETERSEN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 37778 (CEBUS AND ISDN) No I guess they'll shoot for a new Guiness record for the biggest ball of string in the world. Msg#:37915 *INK* 02/07/91 16:53:43 From: ED NISLEY To: KEN DAVIDSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 37742 (CEBUS AND ISDN) And their phone books stink, too. Why not sort them by last name instead of by exchange and last name? It's not like this is a really big state, either! Msg#:37916 *INK* 02/07/91 16:54:33 From: ED NISLEY To: PAUL PETERSEN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 37777 (CEBUS AND ISDN) You take Mastercard for those breadboards? Msg#:37833 *INK* 02/05/91 19:56:10 From: BILL RICHMAN To: KEN DAVIDSON (Rcvd) Subj: UNIVERSAL REMOTE Well, I sent in the agreement and got access to the Universal Electronics BBS. Downloaded the database files and a little file on using the remote under the control of a serial port. Now all I need is the cable. From reading the docs that came with the library it sounds like all it is is an RS-232 to TTL level converter with some gating done by the RTS and DTR signals to prevent the remote from getting confused while you're plugging in or disconnecting the cable. It doesn't sound like it would be hard to build if I knew the pinout for the remote end. Any ideas? I'm going to call Universal and try to either pick their brains or find out how much they sell the interface cable for, but if you have any input, I'd like to hear it. After all, we ARE hardware hackers here, aren't we?? -Bill Msg#:37862 *INK* 02/06/91 08:40:17 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: BILL RICHMAN Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 37833 (UNIVERSAL REMOTE) If I had the cable here at the office, I'd do a quick scoping to find out what the three signals look like. I'll try to remember it for tomorrow. What is the BBS number you have? I tried calling the number I have the other day and got a "disconnected" message. I just tried again and got no answer. Maybe they're having intermittent problems. Msg#:37897 *INK* 02/07/91 06:05:17 From: DAVID MEED To: CURT FRANKLIN (Rcvd) Subj: RS-232 PORTS I was just trying to use the RS-232 port on my PC for controlling something and realized that I can't find any data sheets on the 8250 in my files. It occured to me that a good idea for an article would be something like "All about the PC Serial ports"- How to use them, what the hardware (and common variations like 16450??) is like etc. Similar to the article on the joystick port a while ago. I would offer to do it, but I don't know anything about it. I could put something to gether from a bunch of files. Is there anything like this coming down the pike in CCINK? Thanks David Meed Msg#:37906 *INK* 02/07/91 09:59:39 From: CURT FRANKLIN To: DAVID MEED (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 37897 (RS-232 PORTS) I don't have a manuscript like that in my current manuscript file. I'd be glad to entertain proposals, though... Curt Msg#:37925 *INK* 02/07/91 21:24:26 From: PAUL PETERSEN To: DAVID MEED (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 37897 (RS-232 PORTS) i did a serial interface a while ago and uploaded it ... RS232CKT.ZIP but the Files listing hasn't been upgraded yet so i don't know if ken has included it anywhere... (ken, do you have it..?) there was a disk space crunch so the file may not have been retained... it was a serial port to uart interface. just reading my docs and viewing the schematic should help a lot in getting you started. its not difficult at all. i used the 6403 uart and max233 line rcvr/xmtr.. anything else you add would be for your own data or control circuitry. leave an address and i'll pop a copy in the mail, or, i could upload the file... if i can find it again.... cheers Msg#:37942 *INK* 02/08/91 06:10:34 From: DAVID MEED To: CURT FRANKLIN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 37906 (RS-232 PORTS) I can't offer to do it because I am not qualified .. (I need to read that article myself). David Meed Msg#:37943 *INK* 02/08/91 06:11:40 From: DAVID MEED To: PAUL PETERSEN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 37925 (RS-232 PORTS) Is that serial interface the IBM PC interface? If so, I would be interested. David Meed Msg#:37957 *INK* 02/08/91 09:39:32 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: PAUL PETERSEN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 37925 (RS-232 PORTS) The file has been posted in area 16 ever since you uploaded it. I simply haven't moved it anywhere else yet. Msg#:38009 *INK* 02/09/91 16:12:19 From: PAUL PETERSEN To: DAVID MEED (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 37943 (RS-232 PORTS) all rs232 serial interfaces are created equal .. (almost always)... the serial port on your pc is most probably rs232. if so the file rs232ckt.zip describes a way to get 8 bits parallel into and outof the serial port using 2 chips, the 6403 and the max233. with those two you get 8 bits parallel. any other stuff you want to do is up to you. go ahead and download the file and see what you think. ken tells me it's in area #16. i wrote it using the Grasp Presentation Software so it's a show-and-tell. i'll be here if you have any questions. cheers Msg#:38010 *INK* 02/09/91 16:14:52 From: PAUL PETERSEN To: KEN DAVIDSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 37957 (RS-232 PORTS) ok ken. i've discovered that from time to time folks get turned on to using the serial port to control the coffee pot or automatic kitty feeder so it helps to have such a file available. the other one you have that explains the rs232 spec is well written too. cheers Msg#:37970 *INK* 02/08/91 14:51:02 From: ARLEN FLETCHER To: ALL Subj: RTC 68HC11 I/O ROUTINES Has anyone out there with an RTC 68HC11 board developed or ran across some general I/O routines to talk with the Asynch port ( i.e. to my PC serial port) ? I'm using assembly language to talk to the 'HC11, but I've really become spoiled with the BIOS/MS-DOS interrupts on the PC to do console I/O. Maybe there's a good tutorial somewhere for the 68HC11? Or a toolbox of routines? Help? Can I use the Buffalo I/O routines? How? Help? Msg#:38040 *INK* 02/11/91 09:46:36 From: BURT BROWN To: ARLEN FLETCHER (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 37970 (RTC 68HC11 I/O ROUTINES) Check the MC68HC11 Reference Manual. There are some example boot loader listings that utilize the serial port (SCI). It's not very difficult. You're talking one instruction to set the baud rate, and about two or three each for a basic character in/out routine. There are status bits in the SCI status register (SCSR) that indicate Transmitter empty or receiver full. A low-level, non-interrupt driven routine(s) simply loops on these bit(s) utill sending or receiving a character. --Burt Msg#:38082 *INK* 02/12/91 03:24:50 From: MATTHEW TAYLOR To: ARLEN FLETCHER (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 37970 (RTC 68HC11 I/O ROUTINES) You need Motorola App Note AN 1010. It describes how to use the bootstrap mode with a PC and EEPROM to get programs going. Regards, Matt Msg#:38100 *INK* 02/12/91 13:24:59 From: ARLEN FLETCHER To: MATTHEW TAYLOR (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 38082 (RTC 68HC11 I/O ROUTINES) Thanks Matthew, I'll check it out. Msg#:38028 *INK* 02/09/91 23:50:49 From: MICHEAL GERALD KING To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: OPTOISOLATORS In your article "Multichannel Digital Voltmeter Interface" page 43 in issue 17 in figure 6 you show an optoisolatedRS-232 interface using 4N35 chips. Could NEC PS2002's be used or would the gain be to low? Micheal King Msg#:38219 *INK* 02/15/91 11:05:42 From: STEVE CIARCIA To: MICHEAL GERALD KING (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 38028 (OPTOISOLATORS) Virtually any opto-isolator can be used. --Steve Msg#:38265 *INK* 02/17/91 00:40:03 From: MICHEAL GERALD KING To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 38219 (OPTOISOLATORS) Thanks, I'm not that good at reading specs and was not sure whether those would work. Msg#:38085 *INK* 02/12/91 08:16:49 From: JOSEPH OWENSB To: ED NISLEY (Rcvd) Subj: FURNACE CODE Ed, have enjoyed your columns. Is there somewhere I can find assembler code for fixed point division on an 8031? Also, are calculations better carried out in BCD or Binary if frequent updating of display is required? Calculations are 4 Byte variables, fixed point, and are scaled by both multiplication and division by factors determined during interrupts in the program. Thanks, Joe Owensby Msg#:38195 *INK* 02/14/91 14:42:48 From: ED NISLEY To: JOSEPH OWENSB Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 38085 (FURNACE CODE) By clever choice of project I've never had to do long division in 8031 assembler! The closest was on the power line frequency monitor, but I managed to use a lookup table because there weren't that many answers... talk about fast division! Would the same sort of trick work in your application? You convert all the divisions into multiplications by the reciprocal of the divisor; store the reciprocal in a table and multiply as needed. As the mathematicians say, "Having reduced the problem to that of multiplication, which has been previously solved, the answer is obvious." It sounds like you're dividing two 32-bit numbers; although I've shied away from it I think you could probably put them into the working register bank and do a traditional bit-testing division loop without too much headscratching. Just make sure both numbers are positive and the divisor is non-zero first! You probably don't want to update the display more than a few times a second anyway, so the way you do the division shouldn't get in the way. After all, if the answer is Msg#:38198 *INK* 02/14/91 14:45:22 From: ED NISLEY To: ED NISLEY (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 38195 (FURNACE CODE) Continuation of previous message... If the answer is bouncing all over the place you can't read it anyway, so updating the display quickly may not be what you want. Msg#:38130 *INK* 02/13/91 04:36:54 From: JERRY KISSACK To: ED NISLEY (Rcvd) Subj: MSG# 38093 (DDT-51) Here's the low down, I'm using minimal targeting, and all is in accordance with what has been suggested. The target ram is only enabled from 0000h to 7FFFh since A15 is connected to the -CE. The parallel printer card and cable came from CCINK direct. Instead of a dip clip, I'm using ribbon cable and connectors and only about a 4 inch cable from DDT-51 to target. Every I.C. VCC pin is bypassed with a .1 uf cap to GND. The board's power and GND lines are of heavier wire and each board has it's own power and ground lines run to the power supply. The wirewrap job is neat (for a wirewrap job) and the boards are compact. All the tester routines seem to pass, even the last ones that test debug and target ram. This was not the case, right off the bat, but I've corrected the obvious problems and have checked and rechecked and re-rechecked the hardware and it really looks like I've got it right. With the latest version of software, It appears the system is functional and running and stepping works with consistant results. Only the screen shots differ from that of the CCINK article, and that's what I meant when I said "does not concur with the article" Nope, it's not "pinball panic" mode, it just appears to be a stepping a different test loop than the one described in the article. (but the older version of KERNEL.HEX had identical screen shots when stepped, although I couldn't get that version to single step after BLINKEY.HEX was loaded and run.) I took a look at the current version of KERNEL.HEX's source code. If I looked in the right place, it appeared that the test loop is different than that of the article, so I guess that is why the results on the screen were different when I step through KERNEL.HEX. Don't take this wrong. I'm not trying to point out how bad things are. Things are actually getting better and better every step of the way, and if it weren't for you guys, I'd be still working on those electronic dice games... I'm spending a few days with my brother and checking into the BBS on his computer, so, at the moment, I can't give you any more detail than this, but if you like, when I get back home, I can give you more info on the screen shots I'm getting. I'm glad you're not mad at me and I truely hope this isn't causing you any aggrevation. Please hang in there for me, I'm pretty new at this and I know I must come across a little shakey at times. I'm just trying to make sure I've got things right before I move on. I knew there must be many people out there that got their DDT-51 systems debugged and running, so how could I possibly be the only one who's noticed something different? or do I have to go back and check over my wiring again for the zillionth time? Oh well, hopefully soon we can both look back on this and laugh at how silly it all was. Best Regards Jerry Kissack Msg#:38166 *INK* 02/14/91 13:10:08 From: ED NISLEY To: JERRY KISSACK (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 38130 (MSG# 38093 (DDT-51)) It's only after you see what the problem is that you can get a good belly laugh out of it... until then, it sure looks like the whole world is after you! What you should get when you step through the test loop is each instruction in the loop; the registers shouldn't change unless the instructions load new values. If the displayed registers make sense according to that, I'd say it's working OK... if they don't, then something is wrong and needs fixing. Check your DIP clip for intermittent contacts. I had a clip with a slightly bent pin that drove me nuts until I finally bent all of 'em to give a tighter contact -- then everything worked out OK! Waiting for more information, we all remain... Msg#:38210 *INK* 02/15/91 03:25:57 From: BENOIT ROBERT To: ALL Subj: DSP CHIP SOURCES I read with great interest the last CCI and it's MINI DSP feature article...can't wait to build one! Now, I have been trying my regular sources for the parts without any success. Anybody with information on sources for the ol' TMS320E15 (and maybe the AD7569) ? Thank you in advance... -Benoit Robert PS: While we're on the topic, anybody know of a speech synthesizer chip with female voice ? Msg#:38211 *INK* 02/15/91 08:39:40 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: BENOIT ROBERT (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 38210 (DSP CHIP SOURCES) Please go back a read messages already posted in this very message area. Sources for both those parts have been discussed and I'd rather not see people having to repeat themselves. Msg#:38319 *INK* 02/18/91 15:10:48 From: PHILIP AVNER To: BENOIT ROBERT Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 38210 (DSP CHIP SOURCES) The National Semic DIGI-TALKER (still kickin' after all these years, has (or at least had) female voice ROMs available. Msg#:38255 *INK* 02/16/91 19:42:06 From: DAVID WILHIDE To: ED NISELY Subj: RTCIO REAL TIME CLOCK I'm trying to use the real time clock on the RTCIO board with a RTC31. I'm getting unreliable numbers from the clock and am wondering if its due to timing problems using assembly language. Due I have to insert any delays in either reading or writing the clock? I have been setting the HOLD bit and checking the BUSY bit before any read or write. I'm sure this question has been answered elsewhere on this BBS but I just couldn't find any reference to the RTCIO. I appreciate any advice yo{ can give me. Thanks - David Wilhide Msg#:38398 *INK* 02/20/91 09:37:23 From: JEFF BACHIOCHI To: DAVID WILHIDE (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 38255 (RTCIO REAL TIME CLOCK) David, Your approach sounds correct! Set hold bit to "1" Check busy bit If busy="1" then clear hold bit to "0" and try again If busy="0" then read/write any non-control registers Clear hold bit to "0" Note: operation must not exceed 1 second or that/those seconds will be lost. Using machine language, the time constraint is not a problem and multiple register read/writes can be handled within one hold operation. jeff Msg#:38427 *INK* 02/21/91 12:59:23 From: DAVID WILHIDE To: JEFF BACHIOCHI (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 38398 (RTCIO REAL TIME CLOCK) Thanks for the reply. I believe the method you mentioned is the way I'm doing it but I'll have to check again. As far as the time constraint, I was actually more concerned with reading the clock too fast using machine language. Msg#:38577 *INK* 02/25/91 14:22:49 From: ED NISLEY To: DAVID WILHIDE (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 38255 (RTCIO REAL TIME CLOCK) Best source of real code is the stuff I did for the Furnace Firmware project; take a look at the files for Issue 17 (part 3 of the continuing saga). There's an assembly-language routine that reads and writes the chip, as well as some C code that formats the data for display. Please... "Nisley" is the way my folks decided to spell it, and I've been pretty pigheaded about keeping it that way. Msg#:39312 *INK* 03/13/91 18:41:22 From: DAVID WILHIDE To: ED NISLEY (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 38577 (RTCIO REAL TIME CLOCK) I found the source of my problem~. It seems I was setting the bit which turns on the test mode of the real time clock so that time was really flying by! Naturally, every time I read the data I got what I thought was garbage. Thanks again for an excellant product. Msg#:39364 *INK* 03/14/91 15:41:59 From: ED NISLEY To: DAVID WILHIDE (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 39312 (RTCIO REAL TIME CLOCK) Ah ha! That's about like me not disabling the power-down mode on the RTC-SIR board's UART -- none of the subsequent problems made any sense at all! Thanks for filling us in on what went wrong; that way, we'll all be a little smarter the next time around. Msg#:38263 *INK* 02/16/91 23:55:48 From: MARK COFFMAN To: ALL Subj: ADSP 2105 (DSP) If anyone is interested in this information, I have purchased an ADSP 2105 digital signal processor as advertized in Circuit Cellar INK and it runs instructions ok. Msg#:38488 *INK* 02/23/91 01:49:55 From: MATTHEW TAYLOR To: MARK COFFMAN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 38263 (ADSP 2105 (DSP)) I talked to the AD guys and they were great. I'm really interested in this chip. Have you gotten anything up and running using this product? Where did you get an assembler for the '2105 Regards, Matt Msg#:38372 *INK* 02/19/91 19:45:11 From: AARON WEST To: ED NISLEY (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 29889 (8051 DIVIDE) I played with long division once, but it had limited dividend and divisor precision (although unlimited output), and used the processors (ti-99/4a's 9900) DIV instruction. I suppose the 8051 doesn't even have a divide? Msg#:38584 *INK* 02/25/91 16:32:39 From: ED NISLEY To: AARON WEST (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 38372 (8051 DIVIDE) Believe it or not, it can actually divide one unsigned eight-bit number by another. Big deal, eh? Turns out that isn't much help in building a bigger divide, so you're stuck doing it bit-by-bit the hard way. So it goes. Msg#:39391 *INK* 03/15/91 03:14:28 From: MATTHEW TAYLOR To: ED NISLEY (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 38584 (8051 DIVIDE) Just got some preliminary OKI specs on their new 8051 superset micro. It has full 16 bit multiply and 32x16 div. The intruction cycle time is also much shorter-some instructions take only 450nS. Now if only someone would overhaul the math on the 68HC11! Regards, Matt Msg#:39448 *INK* 03/16/91 08:36:40 From: GARY L LEAR To: MATTHEW TAYLOR (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 39391 (8051 DIVIDE) Hey! Don't pick on the 68HC11! I already raised CAIN with them when I discovered that they used the 6801 core instead of the 6809 core for *POLITICAL* reasons! And at that, since Mot has a translator between 01 and 09 code, and since General Motors (the chip was originally designed for them, likewise TI's TMS370) would have to change the I/O code anyway... Boy, was I steamed! Just can't win unless you do it yourself! --Regards, Gary Msg#:39488 *INK* 03/17/91 02:11:33 From: MATTHEW TAYLOR To: GARY L LEAR (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 39448 (8051 DIVIDE) Holy Cow!! Me pick on the 68HC11??! That little machine makes me so happy! It's just that sometimes, well, I see all this neat stuff for the Intel 8 bit micros and wish I could use it. Regards, Matt Msg#:39543 *INK* 03/18/91 06:14:59 From: GARY L LEAR To: MATTHEW TAYLOR (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 39488 (8051 DIVIDE) Other people wish the same thing when they run across a really neat Moto design and they are big on the 8051. I have two suggestions. One: Since the 68HC11 core processor is virtually identical to the 6801 core, go dig up some of the old Motorola app notes on the 6801 family and convert them. Two: Much more fun; either start from scratch or translate some of the terrific designs presented in CCINK to your favorite processor. You won't believe what a wonderful learning experience this can be and if you start with a CCINK design, most of the difficult and time consuming background work will already be done for you. Have fun! --Regards, Gary Msg#:38392 *INK* 02/20/91 08:20:08 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: ED NISLEY (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 29889 (8051 DIVIDE) Hey, what kind of cheap, garbage processor are you trying to push on us here? Doesn't even have a divide instruction... Hmph! Actually, for as convoluted as the 8051 is, it surprisingly does have multiply and divide instructions. Msg#:38585 *INK* 02/25/91 16:32:48 From: ED NISLEY To: KEN DAVIDSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 38392 (8051 DIVIDE) "Cheap, garbage processor" -- wait a minute, that's my line. On the other hand, what do you want from a $3 computer? Msg#:39270 *INK* 03/12/91 19:31:20 From: AARON WEST To: KEN DAVIDSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 38392 (8051 DIVIDE) You could still do long division with 8-bit numbers, but of course your divisor would be limited to 8 bits. Msg#:39295 *INK* 03/13/91 08:10:32 From: GARY L LEAR To: ED NISLEY (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 38585 (8051 DIVIDE) It may only be $3 now, but how about when the 8751 came out at > $100? Even at that, since I was weaned on microcontrollers with the 8048 and some of the *CHEAPEST* management going (they thought they were saving money by not buying a support system; although my boss did talk them into a used TEKTRONIX logic analyzer ;-} ). It had taken the ch/ ief engineer over three years to write his 3K program (he didn't even have a listing, just a hex dump) and was he annoyed when I started to translate it into assembler! We didn't even have a computer *OF ANY KIND*, I programmed that ---- thing by hand! So now, even with relatively minimal tools, I take most things in stride. I still prefer the 68HC11 though.... --Regards, Gary Msg#:39294 *INK* 03/13/91 08:00:19 From: GARY L LEAR To: BRUCE C. WEBER (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 30160 (8051 DIVIDE) I have done some realtime closed loop (sensor processing) work with the 8051. Do you really have the time available with all of your other functions going. I had to strip the program to essentials, install augmentation hardware, and sleep at work for three weeks to end up with less than an 1K program. A peculiar assymetry in the system kept doing me in. A Super8 would have solved the problem, but we had support for the 8051. I wouldn't have used a micro at all if I hadn't needed the programmable flexibility. Let me know if I can help. --Regards, Gary Msg#:38518 *INK* 02/23/91 20:03:01 From: BILL DEDES To: SYSOP (Rcvd) Subj: INK SUBSCRIPTION Dear Sysop, I am interested in subscribing to INK magazine, but I cannot find a "subscripti on form". Can you please mail to me a subscription form? My address is Bill Dedes Alive Software 4193 Cheeney St. Santa Clara, CA 95054 Thanks Msg#:38631 *INK* 02/26/91 17:26:40 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: BILL DEDES Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 38518 (INK SUBSCRIPTION) Um, I'm not quite sure how to make this any more obvious. From the main menu, you can select "ubscribe to Circuit Cellar INK" as one of the options. The system asks you for everything it needs to know. I'll send out information in the meantime. Msg#:38534 *INK* 02/24/91 14:16:56 From: RICHARD LEE STUDLEY To: JEFF BACHIOCHI (Rcvd) Subj: V25 I was intrigued by the V25 article in issue 17. Do you plan to have kits of this in the near future? Where can I get The V25 chip for prototyping?(directely from NEC?). This seem to be a perfect chip alternative to dedicating surplus xt mother boards to embedded control. Thanks LEE. Msg#:38561 *INK* 02/25/91 08:20:09 From: JEFF BACHIOCHI To: RICHARD LEE STUDLEY (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 38534 (V25) Lee, There are no plans for a V25 kit at this time. Remember, V20 (40 pin DIP) is a replacement for 8080. V25 is a PLCC not pin compatible with the 8088, but with all those extras! NEC will be glad to tell you where you can get product in your area. For literature call 1-800-632-3531. jeff Msg#:38610 *INK* 02/26/91 01:54:51 From: RICHARD LEE STUDLEY To: JEFF BACHIOCHI (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 38561 (V25) Right, I liked the fact that it has serial ports/parallel ability/DMA/8088,6 instructions++/timers/etc. My initial reaction is,why did they waste the PT0-7 pins on the comparater port options instead of strengthening the I/O(eliminating the alternate pin functions among the ports as they now are.)? Well I hope you do offer it as a kit, or a partial kit. It would help people who would like to stick to their native compilers with minimal modifications. Thanks LEE Msg#:38620 *INK* 02/26/91 08:44:44 From: JEFF BACHIOCHI To: RICHARD LEE STUDLEY (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 38610 (V25) Lee, Right you are! If NEC had choosen a bit more carefully there would be no stopping V25. jeff Msg#:38535 *INK* 02/24/91 14:18:40 From: RICHARD LEE STUDLEY To: CURT FRANKLIN (Rcvd) Subj: PALS Can anyone supply the PALs (U7,U8) from the sept/oct 88 issue for the 10mhz Digitizing board for the pc? I wont be getting my programmer til april 27th and Id like to check this out sooner. You can call me at 307-362-8055 or give me details on the bbs. Thanks LEE. Msg#:38549 *INK* 02/25/91 01:42:24 From: MARLON SOUDATT To: CURT FRANKLIN (Rcvd) Subj: VCR DATA BACKUP CARD HOW CAN I GET MORE INFORMATION ON THE VCR DATA BACKUP CARD WHICH WON AN HONORABLE MENTION IN THE CIRCUIT CELLAR DESIGN CONTEST OPEN CATEGORY WHICH WAS PUBLISHED IN THE OCTOBER/NOV 1990 ISSUE, OR ON ANY OF THE PROJECTS WHICH WON PRIZES? Msg#:38628 *INK* 02/26/91 11:39:48 From: CURT FRANKLIN To: MARLON SOUDATT (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 38549 (VCR DATA BACKUP CARD) Well, the easiest way is to continue reading Circuit Cellar INK. We are publishing a number of the winners in upcoming issues. In addition, Circuit Cellar INK #20 has an ad for an upcoming book that will feature a number of contest-winning projects. Issue #20 also has the ad announcing the Third Circuit Cellar INK Design Contest, so potential contest winners should be watching their mailboxes the last week in March... Curt Msg#:38616 *INK* 02/26/91 06:56:56 From: GARY L LEAR To: TOM CANTRELL Subj: WHICH FAMILY? I started out at the Air Force Academy with mainframes, minis, and micros. Since at that time (1977) the support chip spec sheets were just a gleam in some designers eye, we designed our own support. I have since used many machines, and while I have my micro preferences, I use whatever best does the job at hand. --Gary Msg#:38663 *INK* 02/27/91 01:27:45 From: JOHN MCKEE To: ALL Subj: SETTING NUM LOCK AND SCROLL LOCK I read in a past issue of circuit cellar ink a method of setting the keyboard mode using a small program. This allowed num lock caps lock and scroll lock to be set as needed. It also stated that the status lights would be set appropriately. This only worked on an AT. Anybody remember what the instructions were? Msg#:38678 *INK* 02/27/91 09:15:10 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: JOHN MCKEE (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 38663 (SETTING NUM LOCK AND SCROLL LOCK) Since that came from ConnecTime, why not just go back and read the original messages? They're still posted. Start at #30905. You can also do a subject search for keywords like "KEY" or "LIGHT" and find the same set of messages. Msg#:38691 *INK* 02/27/91 16:14:23 From: ERIC SCHUYLER To: JOHN MCKEE (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 38663 (SETTING NUM LOCK AND SCROLL LOCK) John, I use a small (~256 byte) program called LOCK.COM which sets/resets the SCROLL/NUM/CAPS lock state and LED(s). I got it from a BBS - if you can't find it, let me know. Eric Msg#:38721 *INK* 02/28/91 06:36:37 From: RAY GANNON To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: BASIC11/RTC-HC11 I would like to get a copy of the three ROM's for Basic11 running on the RTC-HC11.I looked at the file for the INK issue but did not find them there.Any information would be a help. Msg#:39173 *INK* 03/11/91 10:32:13 From: STEVE CIARCIA To: RAY GANNON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 38721 (BASIC11/RTC-HC11) Basic11 and the Buffalo monitor are available from the Motorola BBS. The Micromint specific versios of these things can be ordered from Micromint. --Steve Msg#:39524 *INK* 03/17/91 20:42:44 From: RAY GANNON To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 39173 (BASIC11/RTC-HC11) Thanx for the info.I thought the mods made to the code were too usefull to be free so I started making the changes myself.Mr. Gordon did a good job of making the code modular so hardware clutses like me could work with it. Msg#:39582 *INK* 03/18/91 15:03:49 From: STEVE CIARCIA To: RAY GANNON Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 39524 (BASIC11/RTC-HC11) It's not that they aren't free, It's just not sold at any price! How's that for an answer. We aren't trying to make money on it. We are just trying not to have to answer software questions on something we didn't write 90% of. --Steve ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ The entire contents of the Circuit Cellar BBS and these disks are copyright (c) 1991 by Steve Ciarcia and Circuit Cellar Inc. All rights reserved. Under no circumstances may any message or message thread be reposted, reprinted, or reproduced in any form without express written permission from Circuit Cellar Inc. Circuit Cellar Inc. makes no warranties and assumes no responsibility or liability of any kind for errors in the messages contained on these disks or for the consequences of any such errors. Since some of the equipment and cir- cuitry described in the messages may be related to or be covered by U.S. patents, Circuit Cellar Inc. disclaims any liability for the infringement of such patents by the making, using, or selling of any such equipment or cir- cuitry, and suggests that anyone interested in such projects consult a patent attorney. The opinions expressed in the messages are solely those of the au- thor of each message and do not necessarily reflect those of Circuit Cellar Inc. or its employees.