Projects Forum -------------- Starting Date 07/1988 --------------------- Msg#: 4493 *PROJECTS* 07/01/88 08:01:04 From: BOB PADDOCK To: ALEXANDER SCHNEIDER (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 4474 (R/C AND SONAR) Some of the simpler high voltage potential devices, mostly the early work of T.T.Brown only lost or gained 1% of their normal wight, so they might be able to do only 50 miiligrams. One of the Carr deviecs was 5 meters in diameter, and one of the Searl deviecs was 12 meters in diamiter, quit a bit more than 50 mg. Also related to the Carr/Searl stuff is the 'N'-effect electric generator (it has nothing to do with levatation, posiably only because it rotates on a differant axis. It is related to the generation of electric feilds during rotation of metal.) Of cource all of these things could be made up, for some reason, but I don't think they are. Sence no one that I know of has actualy proven what gravity is, (they've only discribed it's effects) how can we assume it can't be over come, especialy when so may have come up with posable ways to do it? Msg#: 4517 *PROJECTS* 07/01/88 18:11:21 From: ALEXANDER SCHNEIDER To: BOB PADDOCK (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 4493 (R/C AND SONAR) I tend to dispute these things, while the graviton is still only theoretical, the effects and, in fact, the actual causes of gravity have been documented to such an extent that the probability is high that if there is something as important as an actually useful anti-gravitational levitation device is likely to have been discovered or researched deeply and made public. Could you describe the operation of one of these levitators to me? Alex Msg#: 4760 *PROJECTS* 07/11/88 10:16:51 From: BOB PADDOCK To: ALEXANDER SCHNEIDER (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 4517 (R/C AND SONAR) Ok, I'll bite what is the cause of gravity (and can you prove it)? Anti-gravitational devices have been discovered, researched and made public, but I do have to admit you never hear much about them, for what ever reason. The simples type of anti-grav devices is based on the Befiled-Brown effect (Spelling of Befiled?). Take a simple capacitor, in the shape of a disk air foil (an Arobee would be a good example) and applie a high voltage potential (50-500kvdc), you will get a trusht in the direction of the positive plate. I'll see if I can find a discription of the Sreal Effect for any other method of anti-grav (based on the rotation of metals, see also the "N"-effect; Bruce DePalma). Msg#: 4764 *PROJECTS* 07/11/88 13:11:00 From: RON WILSON To: BOB PADDOCK (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 4760 (R/C AND SONAR) So far, all of the "anti-gravity" devices I've seen present here aren't really anti-gravity so much as they are examples of using electromagnetic and/or electrostatic forces to suspend or push objects around. A true anti-gravity device would have to simulate the "gravitic field" that an object with a negative mass would produce - the trouble is, no one (that I've heard of) has discoved an object with negative mass. (black holes have infinite, not negative mass) Of course, for "on planet" uses, there is nothing wring with using electromagnetic and/or electrostatic forces for levitation (although there IS alot of electrical noise generated). The place where we need actual gravity/anti-gravity systems would be in space ship propulsion systems. -Ron Msg#: 4787 *PROJECTS* 07/12/88 07:37:56 From: BOB PADDOCK To: RON WILSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 4764 (R/C AND SONAR) I think I don't understant some thing fundamentl here: How do you get a negative mass? You menstioned black holes, if you have a table spoon of matter here on Earth, and a table spoon of matter at the event-horizen of a black hole won't there mass be the same? On the other hand there weight would differ by tons? The unit of mass in the English system is the slug, the unit of weight being the pound. In the Metric system the unit of mass is the Kilogram, with the unit of weight being the Newton. Or did I miss some thing in physic class? Msg#: 4788 *PROJECTS* 07/12/88 08:20:13 From: JEFF BACHIOCHI To: BOB PADDOCK (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 4760 (R/C AND SONAR) . Bob, . What kind of power source, none I presently know of, could be massive enough to produce a negative gravitational field to counter that of the earths? It seems to me we need to come a long way in our power to weight ratios before it will ever, excuse me, get off the ground. . jeff Msg#: 4793 *PROJECTS* 07/12/88 12:15:06 From: BOB PADDOCK To: JEFF BACHIOCHI (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 4788 (R/C AND SONAR) I don't know what type of power supply was used, all I've ever seen was a figure of 50-200kvd at 50 watts. Couldn't be to complicated tho, sensce some of these experaments were first done around 1923. Why do you have to counter the whole palnet, and not just the localized area around your object of interest? Msg#: 4821 *PROJECTS* 07/13/88 14:16:45 From: BOB PADDOCK To: RON WILSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 4764 (R/C AND SONAR) : From "Electrical Experimenter", March, 1918: "Can Electricity Destory Gravitation?" by Prof. Francis E. Nipher [1847-1927], of the St. Louis Academy of Science. [This artical may have been written by some one else, but the name is a ilgeable smudge.] : :..... Prof. Nipher's mechanical apparatus resembled that used in the "Cavendish experiment," by which it was first experimentally proved that Newton's law of universal gravitational attraction applied to small bodies in their action upon each other at short distances, just as well as it did to small terrestrial bodies under the influence of the Earth. This apparatus consists of a delicate torsion suspension fiber, a light rigid arm at the lower end of the fiber suspension, and at either end of this bar two small lead spheres of known mass. Two equaly large balls of solid lead are placed close to the small suspended spheres. Now, remebering our law of physics stated above-that every body in space attracts every other body proportionally to their respective masses and inversely as the distance between them-then it is evident that when this apparatus is set up that the small suspendeded sphers will be slightly attracted by the larger, stationary balls. : : Before connecting any form of electric current to the modified Cavendish apparatus, Prof. Nipher took special precaution to carefully screen the moving element from any electro-static or electro-magnetic effects. His apparatus briefly consists of two large lead sphers ten inches in diameter, resting upon heavy sheets of hard rubber. Two small lead balls, each one inch in diameter were now suspended from two silk threads, stationed at the sides of the two large lead sphers, from which they were separated a little distance. Moreover the supended balls were insulated elaborately from the large spheres by enclosing them first airtight in a long wooden box, which was also covered with tinned iron sheets as well as cardboard sheets. There was furthermore, a metal sheild between the box and the large metal spheres. The large metal lead spheres now exerted a certain gravitational pull upon the suspended small lead balls, and the small lead balls were slightly pulled over towareds the large sphears. : : In his first experiments Prof. Nipher applied a high tension current from a static machine to the large lead balls. No difference was noted whether the positive or negative terminals were applied. In one of these experiments the masses were "repelled" (normal gravitation ATTRACTION had been nullified and changed to REPULSION) by a force nearly TWICE as great as the initial gravitiaional repulsion. : : In further experments Prof. Nipher decided to check his results. To do this he replaced the large soild lead sphers with two metal boxes, each filled with [should be a word here but it is ilegable] cotton batting. These hollow boxes (having practically no mass) rested upon insulators. They were seperated from the protective screen by sheets of glass and were GROUNDED to it by heavy copper wires. The metal boxes were then charged in every way that the solid lead spheres had been, but NOT THE SLIGHETEST CHANGE IN THE POSITION OF THE SUSPENDED BALLS COULD BE DETECTED. This would seem to prove conclusively that the "repulsion" and "gravitation nullification" effects that he had produced when the SOLID large balls were electrically charged, were genuine and based undodtedly on a true INTERATOMIC ELECTRICAL REACTION, and not upon any form of electro-static or electro-magnetic effects between the large and small masses. If they had been, the metal boxes, with no mass, would have served as well as the soild balls. : [The artical continues and discribes some other experaments. It Msg#: 4822 *PROJECTS* 07/13/88 14:19:30 From: BOB PADDOCK To: RON WILSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 4764 (R/C AND SONAR) This is the rest of the message that the system choped off: [It would be interesting to repeat these experiments using Bismuth for the soild balls. Bismuth has a vary high dialectric constant. The dialectric constant of the material seems to be signicant in relation to these types of gravity experiments.] Msg#: 4877 *PROJECTS* 07/16/88 16:17:24 From: SHAUN NICHOLSON To: BOB PADDOCK (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 4787 (R/C AND SONAR) Actually, BOTH the mass and the weight would greatly differ. You are comparing a tablespoon of material on the event horizon with one from the earth; however, you are forgetting that the densities are different (remember that mass = volume * density). As for negative matter, (I try to make this as simple as possible so don't be too surprised if it sounds weird!): Current theory says that it is possible for particle pairs to be created out of nothing provided that they have opposite charges and immediately annihilate with each other so that conservation of energy is not violated. Furthermore it is possible for this to occur right at the event horizon such that the positively charged particle escapes and the negatively charged particle is sucked into the black hole. From Einstein's equation (E=mc^2) we know that a particle with negative energy has negative mass. So, what happens when this negative mass particle is sucked in????? The mass of the black hole is reduced! (Is this why some people seem to shrink with age??) Msg#: 4879 *PROJECTS* 07/16/88 17:23:05 From: ALEXANDER SCHNEIDER To: BOB PADDOCK (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 4760 (R/C AND SONAR) In order to understand the Befiled-Brown effect, I must know what thrusht is. Is that thrust? An Arobee?, that wouldn't be a disk capacitor? Thrust, in what manner, what tends to move when you apply the voltage? All I can say is that you are ionizing air and the ions are moving towards the different plates. As stated by Einstein's theory of General Relativity, gravitational attraction is cause by the warping of space-time by the mass of objects existing in space. This has been almost undeniably proven by such things as gravitational lenses, in which light rays are bent by the presence of a massive object. My guess is that any of these "antigravity" devices using high voltage are actually ion rocket motors (turn them upside down and they hit the ground quickly) or working by the principle of repulsion of like charges. Alex Msg#: 4880 *PROJECTS* 07/16/88 17:25:47 From: ALEXANDER SCHNEIDER To: BOB PADDOCK (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 4787 (R/C AND SONAR) Most likely, the table spoon on the event horizon would be accelerating quickly toward the black hole, increasing its mass (yes, that does happen). His point was that you are not able to get a negative mass. Ron stated black holes as being irrelevant to the subject, due to their infinite, not negative masses. Alex Msg#: 4881 *PROJECTS* 07/16/88 17:27:26 From: ALEXANDER SCHNEIDER To: JEFF BACHIOCHI (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 4788 (R/C AND SONAR) To "be massive enough to produce a negative gravitational field" should be defeating to your purpose of creating an "antigravity" effect. Alex Msg#: 4882 *PROJECTS* 07/16/88 17:29:07 From: ALEXANDER SCHNEIDER To: BOB PADDOCK (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 4793 (R/C AND SONAR) You must counter the entire planet, because the entire planet is exerting a force on your object. You can pretty much disregard the rest of the matter in the universe because it is so far away that it exerts no noticeable force (inverse square law), in addition to being uniformly distributed around you. Alex Msg#: 4883 *PROJECTS* 07/16/88 17:33:00 From: ALEXANDER SCHNEIDER To: BOB PADDOCK (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 4821 (R/C AND SONAR) Again, if anything had come of this, we would have heard about it in something other than a 70 year old magazine. You must note that not every detail is given in this article. Alex Msg#: 4884 *PROJECTS* 07/16/88 17:35:49 From: ALEXANDER SCHNEIDER To: BOB PADDOCK (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 4822 (R/C AND SONAR) As far as I know, the diElectric constant of a material should not have noticeable (any) effect on one of these "experiments". Electricity is of such a nature as to find new ways around any precautions you may install and give you errant results. The article said that he tried negative and positive charges on the solid balls, did he ground every component of the system between attempts? Alex Msg#: 4885 *PROJECTS* 07/16/88 17:39:00 From: ALEXANDER SCHNEIDER To: SHAUN NICHOLSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 4877 (R/C AND SONAR) Infinity times 1/10^infinity would still be infinity. You said that the negatively CHARGED (NOT energy) particle is sucked in. Electrons have negative charge, do they weigh less than nothing? I guess that a negative energy particle might have a negative mass, just not a negatively charge particle. Alex Msg#: 5011 *PROJECTS* 07/20/88 12:40:32 From: BOB PADDOCK To: SHAUN NICHOLSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 4877 (R/C AND SONAR) Let me get this strate: We creat a pair of particals out of NOTHING, that immediately annihilate (They have a durration of zero?)? Why can't the negitiave change escape and the positive charge be sucked in? How do you calculate the mass of a black hole? Wouldn't it be a signularity with inffenent mass? And what happens if the sigularity is rotating? Could we say that the partical pairs are created out of the (a)ether, or maybe from artificial scalar potentals, insted of from nothing? Msg#: 5012 *PROJECTS* 07/20/88 12:47:03 From: BOB PADDOCK To: ALEXANDER SCHNEIDER (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 4879 (R/C AND SONAR) You are correct 'thrusht'='thrust' (sorry about the bad spelling/typeing), A Arobee (Spelling/trademark) is the moderen equivalent to the Frisbee (Spelling/trademark?). I'am going to have to go back and read my Relitivity books again, as far as I ever knew, G.R. discribed gravity as a feild-effect. Where can I find where G.R. discribes the cause of gravity? Msg#: 5013 *PROJECTS* 07/20/88 12:52:21 From: BOB PADDOCK To: ALEXANDER SCHNEIDER (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 4883 (R/C AND SONAR) That was just the one that I happend to have one hand when I entered the message. Some day I'll get around to compiling a list of all of this stuff, but we are talking hundreds of differant experaments relating to gravity, up to the present day, not just 70 years ago. If gravity was easy to overcome then we would have all done it by now. It is difficult to overcome, not imposable..... Msg#: 5014 *PROJECTS* 07/20/88 12:56:05 From: BOB PADDOCK To: ALEXANDER SCHNEIDER (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 4884 (R/C AND SONAR) I don't know if Nipper grounded stuff between attempts or not, I'll see if any of the other things he wrote say. ["Gravitation And Electrical Action" Presented by title to the Academy of Science of St. Louis. Feb. 21,1916.] T.T.Brown did extensive work with diElectric constats in releation to gravity. Msg#: 5016 *PROJECTS* 07/20/88 13:01:55 From: BOB PADDOCK To: ALEXANDER SCHNEIDER (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 4885 (R/C AND SONAR) Why must you have a charged mass? Why can't you just have a potential (no mass)? Msg#: 5023 *PROJECTS* 07/20/88 17:41:13 From: BOB PADDOCK To: ALEXANDER SCHNEIDER (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 4884 (R/C AND SONAR) Where would we hear about studys of gravity (Message #4883)? Page 186 of the Transcript of The Academy of Science of St. Louis, Feb. 21,1916: "In each case the masses had been grounded during the preceding night." .... "The negative terminal was applied at 9:38 a.m....At 10:12 a.m. the terminals were reversed, an operation which required a few seconds of time." Msg#: 5106 *PROJECTS* 07/22/88 18:18:55 From: ALEXANDER SCHNEIDER To: BOB PADDOCK (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 5012 (R/C AND SONAR) That info should be relatively easy to find. The Aerobie would not make a desirable capacitor electrode, first because it is an insulator, second because the actual material in it is much smaller than it's size. Alex Msg#: 5107 *PROJECTS* 07/22/88 18:19:37 From: ALEXANDER SCHNEIDER To: BOB PADDOCK (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 5013 (R/C AND SONAR) All evidence says it is impossible to overcome, at least in the sense you are speaking of it. Alex Msg#: 5108 *PROJECTS* 07/22/88 18:21:09 From: ALEXANDER SCHNEIDER To: BOB PADDOCK (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 5014 (R/C AND SONAR) What did Brown find, because at the moment the only fundamental forces to be linked together are electromagnetism and the weak force, not gravity, as of yet, it is theorized to be connected, but very weakly. Alex Msg#: 5109 *PROJECTS* 07/22/88 18:21:42 From: ALEXANDER SCHNEIDER To: BOB PADDOCK (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 5016 (R/C AND SONAR) On what will you be placing the potential? Alex Msg#: 5110 *PROJECTS* 07/22/88 18:23:14 From: ALEXANDER SCHNEIDER To: BOB PADDOCK (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 5023 (R/C AND SONAR) Not many studies of gravity are performed any more, because nearly all of them have proven rather boring to "anti-gravity " theorists. Alex Msg#: 5111 *PROJECTS* 07/22/88 18:30:31 From: ALEXANDER SCHNEIDER To: BOB PADDOCK (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 5011 (R/C AND SONAR) This phenomenon is simply the inverse (wanna talk about time travel) occurance of what happens when any particle and its antiparticle contact one another. When a proton and antiproton collide, they annihilate each other and releasev\'[?vkhTa pair of Gamma rays, in opposite dierections, so as to conserve momentum. This happens backward when a gamma ray spontaneously turns into a particle and its antiparticle. Shaun's suggestion was that if the particle with negative charge were sucked into the black hole, a dilemma would exist becau9.G(sgMeow1_k{e{1W{mass would be created out of nowhere. This is, of course, false, because the particles created have opposite charges, not masses. Alex Msg#: 5131 *PROJECTS* 07/23/88 14:30:41 From: SHAUN NICHOLSON To: ALEXANDER SCHNEIDER (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 4885 (R/C AND SONAR) You are absolutely correct! I had intended to say that the particles had opposite energies (so that the total sum of energy was zero); thus the negative energy particle would have negative mass. Thanks for catching my mistake! Msg#: 5177 *PROJECTS* 07/25/88 11:24:03 From: RON WILSON To: BOB PADDOCK (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 4787 (R/C AND SONAR) I'll have to look up more info on the experiment you described. But all of the other experiments I've described appear to be one of: magnetic, electrostatic, or weak-force. As for appearence of particles "out of nothing," may I point out that nuclear reactions (both fission and fusion) involve conversion of mass into energy (this has been proven); therefore, it would be reasonable to assume that it's also possible to convert energy to mass. (it's the law of conservation of energy AND mass (Energy + Mass*C^2 = a constant - or Mass + Energy/(C^2) = a constant - one or the other - we don't know which)) All else said and/or (not) done, it is still possible to create an area of micro-gravity by brute force (but extremily impratical): along the line between 2 sufficiantly large masses, there is a point where the effect of gravity from the 2 masses cancel each other out. -- Ron Msg#: 5185 *PROJECTS* 07/25/88 17:39:45 From: ALEXANDER SCHNEIDER To: RON WILSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 5177 (R/C AND SONAR) It is also possible to orbit, but who wants to be moving along hte surface of the earth at such high speeds? Alex Msg#: 5198 *PROJECTS* 07/26/88 06:51:13 From: BOB PADDOCK To: ALEXANDER SCHNEIDER (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 5106 (R/C AND SONAR) I agree that an Aerobie wouldn't be that grate of a capacitor, but can you beat the shape of an Aerobie arodinamicly, for it's simplisity? Msg#: 5199 *PROJECTS* 07/26/88 06:57:28 From: BOB PADDOCK To: ALEXANDER SCHNEIDER (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 5107 (R/C AND SONAR) Yes all of the evidence says it is impossible to overcome, but all of the [claimed] demonstrations of such devices seem to show other wise. Maybe will all get to see a simple demonstraion in the near future, there is going to be an artical in a future issue (I don't know which one) of Radio & Electronics intitled: "Gravitronics: Experimenting with Gravity." by G. Hodowanec ? Msg#: 5200 *PROJECTS* 07/26/88 07:00:16 From: BOB PADDOCK To: ALEXANDER SCHNEIDER (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 5109 (R/C AND SONAR) That was my point, why do you have to place the potential 'on' any thing? Msg#: 5201 *PROJECTS* 07/26/88 07:05:46 From: BOB PADDOCK To: ALEXANDER SCHNEIDER (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 5111 (R/C AND SONAR) I'am probably going to put my foot in my keyboard with this one (never have been grate at math), but if E=M(C*C) then doesn't M = E / (C*C)? Where do the signes of the charges come in to play? Msg#: 5202 *PROJECTS* 07/26/88 07:11:12 From: BOB PADDOCK To: RON WILSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 5177 (R/C AND SONAR) Nethier Energy or Mass is nothing, the are both some things. "Nothing can come out of nothing, any more than a thing can go back to nothing." Marcus Aurelius 121-180 AD. Msg#: 5203 *PROJECTS* 07/26/88 07:46:00 From: BOB PADDOCK To: ALEXANDER SCHNEIDER (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 5108 (R/C AND SONAR) The amount of info related to Brown's findings is volumis (Six volumes to be exact, 1,2, and 4, with volume 3, 5 & 6 still not printed/published). I'll try and put together a message that will anwser your question, and do Brown justis, over the weekend. Msg#: 5204 *PROJECTS* 07/26/88 07:50:36 From: BOB PADDOCK To: ALEXANDER SCHNEIDER (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 5110 (R/C AND SONAR) I find the on going studys of Prof. Shinichi Seike of the Gravity Research Laboratory, of Uwajima City, Ehime Japan, vary interisting, so not all of them are boring to us "anti-gravity" types. See his book "The Principles of Ultrarelativity" 6th ed. Msg#: 5224 *PROJECTS* 07/26/88 12:16:17 From: BOB PADDOCK To: ALEXANDER SCHNEIDER (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 5109 (R/C AND SONAR) From "The New Tesla Electromagnetics and The Secrets of Electrical Free Energy" by T.E.Bearden, Part 1: Discrepancies in Present EM Theory; Tesla Book Co. "(1) In present electrmagnetics theory, CHARGE AND CHARGED MASS ARE FALSELY MADE IDENTICAL. Actually, on a charged partical, the 'charge' is the flux of virtual particles on the 'bare particle' of observable mass. The charged particle is thus a 'system' of true massless charge coupled to a bare chargeless mass. The observable 'mass' is static, three-dimensional , and totally spatial. 'Charge' is dynamic, four-dimensional or more, virtual and spatiotemporal. Further, the charge and observable mass can be decoupled, contrary to present theory. Decoupled charge -- that is, the absence of mass -- is simply what we presently refer to as 'vacuum.' Vacuum, spacetime, and massless charge are all identical. Rigorously, we should utilize any of these three as an 'ether,' as suggested for vacuum by Einstein himself (See Max Born: "Einstein's Theory of Relativity" Revised edition, Dover Publications, NY, 1965, p. 224) And all three of them are identically anenergy -- not energy, but more fundamental compnets of energy. " That is where I would place the potential. [Now that I'am way out here on this limb, how about trowing that andval up here.....] Msg#: 5235 *PROJECTS* 07/26/88 21:12:47 From: ALEXANDER SCHNEIDER To: BOB PADDOCK (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 5198 (R/C AND SONAR) It is a very nice device, though it does curve a lot for the inexperienced user who spins it too much. Alex Msg#: 5236 *PROJECTS* 07/26/88 21:14:00 From: ALEXANDER SCHNEIDER To: BOB PADDOCK (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 5199 (R/C AND SONAR) If you come across it, please tell us. Many of the demonstrations of Filipino voodoo surgery seem to show that it works. Alex Msg#: 5237 *PROJECTS* 07/26/88 21:14:27 From: ALEXANDER SCHNEIDER To: BOB PADDOCK (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 5200 (R/C AND SONAR) What else can you put it on? There must be something there to be charged. Alex Msg#: 5238 *PROJECTS* 07/26/88 21:16:23 From: ALEXANDER SCHNEIDER To: BOB PADDOCK (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 5201 (R/C AND SONAR) The way annihilation works is that a particle and its antiparticle collide and release a pair of gamma rays. If one of the particles has a charge, then by definition, its antiparticle must have the opposite charge. The Neutron and the neutrino do not have charges, thus their antiparticles do not. I think there is also a conservation of charge theory that holds. Alex Msg#: 5239 *PROJECTS* 07/26/88 21:16:45 From: ALEXANDER SCHNEIDER To: BOB PADDOCK (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 5203 (R/C AND SONAR) I would be happy to see it! Alex Msg#: 5240 *PROJECTS* 07/26/88 21:18:54 From: ALEXANDER SCHNEIDER To: BOB PADDOCK (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 5204 (R/C AND SONAR) As things are in many fields, if the general informed community of physicists has not heard/said much of a theory, it is generally not worth much. I would understand it if it were a new theory, but 6 editions? Just because he is in Japan, it doesn't mean he's sane. Alex Msg#: 5241 *PROJECTS* 07/26/88 21:20:55 From: ALEXANDER SCHNEIDER To: BOB PADDOCK (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 5224 (R/C AND SONAR) Many things have been proven possible, but have not been conceivable for a long long time. Under what circumstances might the charge separate? Alex Msg#: 5252 *PROJECTS* 07/27/88 07:07:50 From: BOB PADDOCK To: ALEXANDER SCHNEIDER (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 5240 (R/C AND SONAR) Do sane people discuss anti-gravity? Msg#: 5253 *PROJECTS* 07/27/88 07:22:57 From: BOB PADDOCK To: ALEXANDER SCHNEIDER (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 5241 (R/C AND SONAR) Same Ref as before, Entery 14: (14) "'Charge' is assumed to be quantized, in addition to always occurring with -- and locked to -- mass. Indeed, charge is not necessarily quantized, just as it is not necessarily locked to mass. Ehrenhaft discovered and reported fractional charges for years, in the 30's and 40's, and was ignored. [It seems that things that don't fit are always conveniantly ignored.] See P.A.M. Dirac, 'Development of the Physicists's Conception of Nature," Symposium on the Development of the Physicist's Conception of Nature, ed. Jagdish Merha, D. Reidel, Boston, 1973, pp. 12-14 for a presentation of some of Ehrenhaft's results. Within the last few years Stanford University researchers also have positively demonstrated the existence of "fractional charge." For a layman's description of their work, see "A Spector Haunting Physics," Science News, Vol. 119, January 31, 1981, pp. 68-69. Indeed, Dirac in his referenced article points out that Millikan himself -- in his original oildrop experiments -- reported one measurement of fractionalC~}5jjFq~?~?~?~?~?~2Y<~?~?~?~?~?~'h[/ c)j)EN:M.i+6I' dX~U:A!\bKmP_V/dt6 YCa{um]c_I53AJ8 `/k(L f`t~VZLFnc/WE"Ri}&yGodu"!4Y6F!d@e_?qGW%A$3'+ Xo)CG;/x7M@>9)0Jlmqm}w=7rPL7eL4[k~?~?~?~?~?~?N7@1@$;X5^?NV3cE (X(`%dLVHmD nvW-^m4[xH2zcLcZ'N=17(6DS% 5aL6is@Rx]*X'-a8}sMND1[\:Ii39+F-c0?h,V?`,{bNKVDghEhM@')C+O$G,R~0Zz68I5!Yiew command instead of the ist command. View does the reformatting so you can see what it will look like. List leaves it in whatever format you uploaded it in, so can be deceiving. Msg#: 4509 *PROJECTS* 07/01/88 12:33:15 From: RON WILSON To: EDWARD WOOD (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 4287 (ELECTRONIC COMPASS) I too would like a copy of the article. Address: Ron Wilson 27600 Franklin Rd #408 Southfield, MI 48034 . Thanks Ron Msg#: 4512 *PROJECTS* 07/01/88 16:26:30 From: DAVID HESSLER To: EDWARD WOOD (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 4402 (ELECTRONIC COMPASS) Edward, Thanks for the article. Msg#: 4513 *PROJECTS* 07/01/88 16:30:05 From: DAVID HESSLER To: ALEXANDER SCHNEIDER (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 4475 (ELECTRONIC COMPASS) Alex, the magnetometers see magnetic field change, not people, only iron or electric current induced fields, but can see a man with a gun etc by the change in earth's field from the conduction of lines of force by even an unmagnetized gun. they tend to be directional when the vectors from several are computed to see where the anamoly is most strong. Dave Msg#: 4518 *PROJECTS* 07/01/88 18:13:08 From: ALEXANDER SCHNEIDER To: DAVID HESSLER (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 4513 (ELECTRONIC COMPASS) How sensitive are they for metal detection? How far away would an average sized car have to be to be detected? Alex Msg#: 4807 *PROJECTS* 07/13/88 00:19:13 From: DAVID HESSLER To: ALEXANDER SCHNEIDER (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 4518 (ELECTRONIC COMPASS) Alex, finding a car with a differential magnetometer, I assume under water, should be fairly easy with a sensitive fluxgate or thinfilm unit good for 5 gamma sensitivity per meter to a range of thirty feet. The main limiting factor is the length of the space between sensors and the other anomalies in the area. The data relates directly to finding subs and is well covered in the navy literature, and manuals on using ASW magnetometers, see the AX rating study manual for Airman first class. It would also be practical to find it with the conductivity using the common AC active Electromagnetic coil sensors, with a driven coil at 2000 hz and two sensor coils at different distances as: Rec Xmit Rec O O O ---------- |\ \ \_---- OSC. | \______ AC out \__------------------------------------- | / |/ 2 ft 12 ft .. where Rec 1 is close to Xmit coil and attenuated into the amplifier, and Rec 2 is 8 to 20 feet away on a long rod and adjusted to buck out the ac signal. the object conducting the Electro Magnetic field will reduce the balance of the closer Receiver and give an audio input to the earphones or meter. A more sensitive technique is to use higher frequencies and use 4 sensors with a matrix display for 3D directional output on a color 3d display, or to servo a homing locator sub on a wire with some magnetics or a tv camera to check the find. This differential technique was used to find Magellens Cannons in 1975 off Australia in just a few hours from a very old map of their attempt to dump weight when caught on a reef. The Canadian Film Board did a Documentary of Ken Meyers running the search operation for Aero Service Corp of Philadelphia. More data is available from Homer Jensen at 215-ME5-4399. I can supply the thin film plates and plans for sensors, but some electronics work is needed for the oscillator and amplifiers. David Hessler Msg#: 4886 *PROJECTS* 07/16/88 17:42:41 From: ALEXANDER SCHNEIDER To: DAVID HESSLER (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 4807 (ELECTRONIC COMPASS) How sensitive are the magnetometers that are commonly found? Alex Msg#: 4972 *PROJECTS* 07/19/88 07:32:27 From: DAVID HESSLER To: ALEXANDER SCHNEIDER (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 4886 (ELECTRONIC COMPASS) Alexander, I dont think magnetometers are regularly found, but in a directory like EEM from Electronic Products magazine or from EBG from Electronics Magazine, or from the gold book from Electronic Design magazine(which are all freebies to qualified ( engineers who buy stuff) readers, there will be under sensors, magnetic or under magnetic meters, a section listing the manufactures phone address and reps. I will be reviewing this data, and the anomaly signatures of several target types for a proposal I have to do this week, to see what signal strength and range are necessary to see a tank and an outboard motor. any good magnetometer can see a motor at 10 feet, and most have some perm from stray field from a generator or starter to make a much larger target. I suddenly have need to design some small magnetic sensors for large targets, and will send some more non-classified data out to the net. Dave Msg#: 4530 *PROJECTS* 07/02/88 06:55:46 From: MARTIN ELMES To: ALL Subj: VIDEO DIGITIZING Has anyone tried out the Samsung KSV 3100A A/D - D/A converter ,this seems like an exellent device you get both in one pakage 8 bit ADC and 10 bit DAC and it runs at 38 MSPS(Mega samples per second). I belive they are less than $40 Msg#: 4540 *PROJECTS* 07/02/88 17:15:09 From: ED NISLEY To: ALEXANDER SCHNEIDER (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 4296 (IMAGEWISE AND VGA) Well, not quite list... Going to GIF, or TIFF, or something like that, seems like a good idea, but it boils down the the fact that if you don't have lots of colors you get a lousy picture. I think the newer displays have enough gray scale to do the deed, but the older machines just don't hack it. Anybody who wants to do the conversion is welcome to belly up to the bar and reap fame and fortune untold! Msg#: 5034 *PROJECTS* 07/20/88 22:36:49 From: STEVE SMITH To: ED NISLEY (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 4087 (IMAGEWISE AND VGA) Have solved the VGA problem and will upload the results. 320x200 256 color mode is pretty good for ImageWise opictures, I can tolerate the loss of 20 lines form the top and bottom. An alternative is to reset the pallet in 640x480 mode to 16 shades of grey and then do a four pixel dither for each pel in the image to get 64 shades. look for showega.arc for the results. I'd appreciate comments. Msg#: 5043 *PROJECTS* 07/21/88 09:02:55 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: STEVE SMITH (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 5034 (IMAGEWISE AND VGA) Please use some other name when you upload the file. We already provide files called SHOWEGA with the ImageWise and I don't need the confusion around here. Msg#: 5069 *PROJECTS* 07/21/88 18:00:27 From: ED NISLEY To: STEVE SMITH (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 5034 (IMAGEWISE AND VGA) Sounds good to me... I'll download it on my next pass through there... Steve was just egging me on to think about code for a 256 gray level version of the Imagewise, so I guess we'll always be a little ahead of whatever shows up on computer displays. Hmmm... Msg#: 5357 *PROJECTS* 07/28/88 22:42:23 From: STEVE SMITH To: KEN DAVIDSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 5043 (IMAGEWISE AND VGA) I thought I used SHOWVGA which is not now used and would attract IMAGEWISE users because of its similarity to SHOWEGA. I assume you can rename files I upload to anything you want. Also, I assume yourBBS software will not aloow me to upload a program with the dame name ad one you already have. I don't understand why you have a problem with my uploads. Msg#: 5374 *PROJECTS* 07/29/88 09:23:25 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: STEVE SMITH (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 5357 (IMAGEWISE AND VGA) In your original message, you told Ed to look for a file called SHOWEGA.ARC on his next pass through. That was what prompted me to ask you to use a different name. It is currently listed in the new uploads area as SHOWVGA.ARC. I don't remember whether I renamed it or that is how it was uploaded, but in any case it is now available. Msg#: 7347 *PROJECTS* 09/11/88 00:47:09 From: SIMON SABATO To: STEVE SMITH Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 4080 (IMAGEWISE AND VGA) A while back someone mentioned that VGA could only do 256 in 320 x 200 mode while SuperEGA could do 640 x 400 with all 256 colors. I thought VGA (apart from 8514) was the current best? -Simon Sabato Msg#: 7618 *PROJECTS* 09/19/88 14:44:03 From: RON WILSON To: SIMON SABATO (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 7347 (IMAGEWISE AND VGA) SuperEGA is *NOT* supported by IBM. VGA can also do the same trick - but again, it's not supported - in fact the latest can't do that trick. (but it probably does some other tricks......) Msg#: 4541 *PROJECTS* 07/02/88 17:23:17 From: KEN MUNKHOLM To: GENERAL Subj: SMART-SPOOLER I have built the smartspooler with a daughter board for the front panel display. When I power up the board with all the dip switches off, it passes the self test just fine. When I move all the dip switches to the on position, and power the board, all I get is all the LED's flashing about 4x per second. The unit will not respond to a on the serial out port either. Any suggestions?? Msg#: 4557 *PROJECTS* 07/03/88 14:11:09 From: SHAUN NICHOLSON To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 4371 (MISC) Ok. I've heard that Tektronix scopes have better triggering mechanisms. What do you think? Also, have you heard anything about Kenwood scopes?? (I didn't even know Kenwood made scopes until a few weeks ago!!!) Msg#: 4558 *PROJECTS* 07/03/88 14:12:44 From: SHAUN NICHOLSON To: RICHARD ANDREWS (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 4386 (MISC) I'm not very familiar with Phillips scopes. Do you know where the company is located so I can write for more information?? Thanks! Msg#: 4561 *PROJECTS* 07/03/88 15:30:46 From: STEVE CIARCIA To: SHAUN NICHOLSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 4557 (MISC) I've been very happy with Tek scopes and never looked for others. Sorry I can't be of more help. -- Steve Msg#: 4565 *PROJECTS* 07/03/88 22:13:02 From: REZA POURZIA To: SHAUN NICHOLSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 4557 (MISC) I have a Hitachi V-665 that I am very happy with. For the price, it has more features (e.g. digital read out) than a similarly priced tek scope. The new low-cost Tek line of scopes are made in England and are not quite as well built and sturdy as the more expensive American built variety. Anyway, it all depends on what you want to do with scope. I returned my tek scope and bought a Hitachi. Sor far, I am very satisfied. Msg#: 4562 *PROJECTS* 07/03/88 15:59:25 From: SHAUN NICHOLSON To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: RAIN! I am in the process of interfacing various weather station equipment to my computer. Do you know of an innovative way to measure the depth of water in a rain gauge? Msg#: 4569 *PROJECTS* 07/03/88 23:48:04 From: EDWARD WOOD To: SHAUN NICHOLSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 4562 (RAIN!) Why don't you use a tipping bucket type of rain gauge. All you need is a counter to count the number of times the bucket (known volume) tips to find out how much rain has fallen. The only disadvantage of this method is that during severe downpours the bucket mechanism cannot keep up with the volume of water flowing into the rain gauge. Another method you could use is one of Sensym's pressure transducers to measure the pressure generated by the water in the rain gauge's collections cylinder. I'm not sure what kind of resolution you could get with this method. For more info you should look in the Sensym pressure sensor handbook for 1988. It is available on request from Sensym, 1255 Reamwood Ave., Sunnyvale CA 94089 (408) 744-1500. Msg#: 4573 *PROJECTS* 07/04/88 09:46:31 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: SHAUN NICHOLSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 4562 (RAIN!) There is an on-going series of articles in Circuit Cellar INK about a home weather station based on a 68010 processor. Mark Voorhees (the articles' author) is using instruments from Heath for such tasks as rainfall measurement, wind speed and direction, and so on. You might want to check the articles out. Msg#: 4610 *PROJECTS* 07/05/88 13:34:46 From: RON WILSON To: SHAUN NICHOLSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 4562 (RAIN!) More on the tipping bucket idea: You could have 2 such units: one with a large mouth for "light" rain. The other with a small mouth for "heavy" rain.w3~o (of course, small mount rain guages are less accurate) -- Ron Msg#: 4711 *PROJECTS* 07/09/88 19:27:34 From: SHAUN NICHOLSON To: KEN DAVIDSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 4573 (RAIN!) Thanks Ken. I recently subscribed to Ink but hanen't received my first issue yet. What issue does this weather station series begin with?? Msg#: 4748 *PROJECTS* 07/10/88 23:36:16 From: STEVE GREENHOUSE To: KEN DAVIDSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 4573 (RAIN!) Shaun: I believe the weather station series started with issue #1 pretaining to an RGB-NTSC converter. (Which, by the way I missed!!) Mr. Ciarcia...any back issues left? Msg#: 4759 *PROJECTS* 07/11/88 09:50:33 From: JEFF BACHIOCHI To: SHAUN NICHOLSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 4711 (RAIN!) . All needing BACK ISSUES, . Back issues for CIRCUIT CELLAR INK (#1 Jan/Feb, #2 Mar/Apr or #3 May/Jun) are available for $3.00 plus $1.00 postage and handling by check or money order to: . Circuit Cellar INK . P.O. Box 772 . Vernon, Ct 06066 , jeff Msg#: 4876 *PROJECTS* 07/16/88 15:06:53 From: SHAUN NICHOLSON To: JEFF BACHIOCHI (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 4759 (RAIN!) Check's in the mail! Msg#: 4898 *PROJECTS* 07/18/88 09:20:48 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: SHAUN NICHOLSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 4711 (RAIN!) That's correct. The weather series started with issue #1 and will be continuing for quite a while. As a footnote to Jeff's back issue message, note that the cost is $4.00 per issue, not $4.00 for all three together. More information can be found by going to the INK information section from the main menu. Msg#: 4931 *PROJECTS* 07/18/88 10:55:41 From: STEVE CIARCIA To: STEVE GREENHOUSE (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 4748 (RAIN!) Back issues are available for $4 each (mailed first class). Just send a check to CC INK stating what you want. -- Steve Msg#: 5132 *PROJECTS* 07/23/88 14:33:33 From: SHAUN NICHOLSON To: KEN DAVIDSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 4898 (RAIN!) Thanks. Msg#: 4594 *PROJECTS* 07/05/88 08:51:17 From: RALPH WIELAND To: KEN DAVIDSON (Rcvd) Subj: 8051 PROJECT Ken, Is it possible to obtain hardware for next months project (8051 development) today ? I have an immediate need for 8051 to IBM-PC interface and feel this hardware will speed my development. Any info appreciated. --- Thanks, Ralph Wieland Msg#: 4595 *PROJECTS* 07/05/88 09:25:05 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: RALPH WIELAND (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 4594 (8051 PROJECT) Sorry, but to the best of my knowledge no kit or assembled unit based on Steve's next BYTE project is going to be available. I haven't even seen the article yet, so Steve is the best one to ask about it. Msg#: 4604 *PROJECTS* 07/05/88 09:45:33 From: STEVE CIARCIA To: RALPH WIELAND (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 4594 (8051 PROJECT) The circuit for the 8051 development system is so simple, it hardly warranted a pc board. -- Steve Msg#: 4612 *PROJECTS* 07/05/88 15:09:50 From: RICK FOLEA To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: IMAGEWISE Steve, some time ago you had helped me with some questions on the imagewise and said when I finished the project (hooking up the imagewise to an Apple IIGS) that I should write it up and send it in. I am almost finished, so if you are still interested let me know how to go about it. The program is a desktop type with scrollable windows, enlarging, reduction, file management, etc. Its main purpose is to allow me to store pictures from the imagewise so I can modify and color them later with a paint program. Thanx, again -Rick Msg#: 4632 *PROJECTS* 07/06/88 09:13:52 From: STEVE CIARCIA To: RICK FOLEA (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 4612 (IMAGEWISE) Still very interested in such a writeup for CC INK. Before you send it in, let me know again and I'll put you in contact with the right people. -- Steve Msg#: 4637 *PROJECTS* 07/06/88 12:51:57 From: RICK FOLEA To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 4632 (IMAGEWISE) steve, willbe done with the program in the next few weeks. Will let you know. Do you know of any sources for cheap video cameras (like a security camera or something) that could be used with the imagewise? Msg#: 4659 *PROJECTS* 07/07/88 08:48:11 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: RICK FOLEA (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 4637 (IMAGEWISE) Fordham Radio has a good assortment of cameras, any of which should work just fine. They can be contacted at (800) 645-9518 or (800) 832-1446 if in New York. Msg#: 4619 *PROJECTS* 07/05/88 17:51:46 From: JEFF JENSEN To: ALEXANDER SCHNEIDER (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 4477 (INDUCTOR COILS) Alex, the latest ECN Liturature News lists two vendors of toroidal power transformers. They are : . Bicron Electronics Co. . 100 Barlow Street . Canaan, CT 06018, (203)824-5125 . Fax (203)824-1137 And . Toroid Corporation of Maryland . 6000 Laurel-Bowie Road . Bowie, MD 20715-4037, (301)464-2100 . Fax (301)464-4657 . . Jeff Msg#: 4620 *PROJECTS* 07/05/88 19:21:41 From: ALEXANDER SCHNEIDER To: JEFF JENSEN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 4619 (INDUCTOR COILS) You said toroidal power transformers, I will only need the cores, do those distributors sell them? Alex Msg#: 4663 *PROJECTS* 07/07/88 18:01:34 From: JEFF JENSEN To: ALEXANDER SCHNEIDER (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 4620 (INDUCTOR COILS) Alex, I wish I knew. Give those folks a call. If they don't have what you want, they may be able to refer you to a source. Also, I seem to remember some of the standard coil and xformer makers like Miller selling forms and cores. . . Jeff Msg#: 4649 *PROJECTS* 07/07/88 00:08:54 From: ANDY PICKETT To: EDWARD WOOD (Rcvd) Subj: ELECTRONIC COMPASS Edward: I had no idea when I first posted the message to Steve about the electronic compass that it would cause such a fervor! I'm VERY interested in pursuing this project-of-sorts further, and would be appreciative if you could send me a copy of the article you previously mentioned. I imagine your postage expense has gotten pretty huge lately, so if I can reimburse you in any way, please let me know. My address is: 238-D N. Mickley Ave., Indianapolis, IN 46224 Thanks much! :-) --->Andy<--- Msg#: 4668 *PROJECTS* 07/07/88 21:23:47 From: EDWARD WOOD To: ANDY PICKETT (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 4649 (ELECTRONIC COMPASS) The article will be in the mail tomorrow. Don't worry about reimbursing me for the postage - its on me. Edward Wood Msg#: 4673 *PROJECTS* 07/07/88 23:22:12 From: ALEXANDER SCHNEIDER To: EDWARD WOOD (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 4668 (ELECTRONIC COMPASS) I received the article, thank you very much. I didn't see any information as to obtaining the parts (especially the magneto-resistors) Alex Msg#: 4693 *PROJECTS* 07/08/88 20:13:39 From: EDWARD WOOD To: ALEXANDER SCHNEIDER (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 4673 (ELECTRONIC COMPASS) The article says that the magneto-resistive sensors are available from Valvo, a German company that is a collaboration of Philips and Mullard electronics. You could write to the address in the small box next to the schematic diagram in the article. All the other parts are pretty standard except for the inductor, and instructions for building it are included in the article. Edward Wood Msg#: 4714 *PROJECTS* 07/09/88 19:56:35 From: ALEXANDER SCHNEIDER To: EDWARD WOOD (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 4693 (ELECTRONIC COMPASS) I didn't see that, thanks. Alex Msg#: 4732 *PROJECTS* 07/10/88 10:48:41 From: EDWARD WOOD To: ALEXANDER SCHNEIDER (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 4714 (ELECTRONIC COMPASS) No problem. - Edward Msg#: 4660 *PROJECTS* 07/07/88 10:41:51 From: GARREN DAVIS To: KEN DAVIDSON (Rcvd) Subj: BSR Is there an address or phone number that i can use to ask some questions. I downloaded the X-10 software for my PC-XT but can't get it to work with my old TRS-80 INTERFACE module.I used an analyzer to look at the signals out of both computers and the signals coming out of the TRS-80 are a little different than the PC yet the TRS-80 INTERFACE module looks like it operates the same as the one in the INK article Msg#: 4676 *PROJECTS* 07/08/88 08:37:25 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: GARREN DAVIS (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 4660 (BSR) If you have questions about the IBM PC software or the PL513 module, you can ask them here. If you have questions about the TRS-80 interface, you should contact X-10. Their phone number is printed in their ad in the same issue of INK. Msg#: 4661 *PROJECTS* 07/07/88 14:49:49 From: LAMAR FIELDS To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: VOICE ACTIVATION OF INFRA RED RE STEVE, I AM STILL LOOKING FOR A WAY TO INTERFACE A VOICE RESPONSE SYSTEM TO THE INFRA RED MASTER REMOTE DISCUSSED IN YOUR FEB. AND MARCH 1987 ARTICLES IN BYTE. CAN THIS BE DONE THROUGH THE RS-232 PORT CONNECTED TO THE BCC-52 CONTROLLER ? ALSO CAN YOU SUGGEST AN LITERATURE REGARDING INFRA RED THEORY ? THANKS Msg#: 4896 *PROJECTS* 07/18/88 09:16:55 From: STEVE CIARCIA To: LAMAR FIELDS Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 4661 (VOICE ACTIVATION OF INFRA RED RE) Seriously, virtually anything can be done if enough money or talent is applied to it. However, explaining it in a BBS message is a bit difficult. Making it a CC INK article is another story ........... The best writeup on IR are my two articles in BYTE and the two that Ed Nisley has done in the last two CC INK issues. -- Steve Msg#: 4684 *PROJECTS* 07/08/88 15:18:06 From: TIMOTHY TAYLOR To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: MASTER CONTROLLER STEVE, ARE THERE ANY HARDWARE MODIFICATIONS THAT NEED TO BE MADE TO THE MASTER CONTROLLER CIRCUIT BOARD TO MAKE IT WORK PROPERLY ? I NOTICED IN YOUR MARCH '87 BYTE ARTICLE, THAT THE PC BOARD SHOWN IT THE PIX HAD SOME MODS DONE TO IT. I'M HAVING SOME DIFFICULTY GETTING MINE UP AND RUNNING AND WOULD APPRECIATE ANY SUGGESTIONS. AS OF NOW, I ONLY GET A SCRAMBLED DISPLAY EVERY TIME I POWER UP. ANY HELP WOULD BE APPRECIATED. THANKS ALOT. TIM TAYLOR Msg#: 4758 *PROJECTS* 07/11/88 09:42:16 From: JEFF BACHIOCHI To: TIMOTHY TAYLOR (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 4684 (MASTER CONTROLLER) . Timothy, . No modifications were made to the MASTER CONTROLLER to the best of my knowledge. Here are a couple of things to look for: . 1. Do you have 12 Mhz on the XTAL inputs? . 2. Do you have 2 Mhz on ALE? . 3. When pressing the DO IT button does the RED LED flash? . If you have 1&2 but not 3 then check for shorts with an ohm meter from +5 or Ground to any of the following: A0-A15 or D0-D7. Also check for shorts between any of the afore mentioned lines. . jeff Msg#: 4767 *PROJECTS* 07/11/88 16:45:32 From: TIMOTHY TAYLOR To: JEFF BACHIOCHI (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 4758 (MASTER CONTROLLER) Thanks for the reply, we appreciate it very much. The resistor pull-up pack that we purchased was faulty. We replaced it with individual 4.7k resistors. It is working better, however we may have some questions regarding the remote PC commands forth-coming. Thanks again, t. taylor Msg#: 4705 *PROJECTS* 07/09/88 15:33:08 From: EDDIE WHITE To: KEN DAVIDSON (Rcvd) Subj: PORTS.LIB Ken, Can the ports.lib macro be found here on the system or is it part of the 64180 assembler you used? (this is for the x10bc180.z80 file) thanks, Eddie Msg#: 4897 *PROJECTS* 07/18/88 09:18:12 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: EDDIE WHITE (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 4705 (PORTS.LIB) Sorry about that. I guess I forgot to post it. I'll get it posted as soon as possible. Msg#: 4713 *PROJECTS* 07/09/88 19:32:58 From: SHAUN NICHOLSON To: EDWARD WOOD (Rcvd) Subj: RAIN!! I talked to some of my friends about the rain gauge. They knew of the tipping bucket method but never heard of the Sensym pressure gauge. Do you have any idea how accurate this is considered to be?? Msg#: 4731 *PROJECTS* 07/10/88 10:48:06 From: EDWARD WOOD To: SHAUN NICHOLSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 4713 (RAIN!!) The pressure sensors I was referto are manuafactured for a variety of uses and you would have to design a system using these sensors to measure the pressure generated by the height of the water column in the rain gauge. I just realized that useing pressure sensors is a bad way to design a rain gauge. The sensor would react to changes in barometric pressure as well as the height of the water column. Sorry, I goofed! Msg#: 4762 *PROJECTS* 07/11/88 12:52:08 From: RON WILSON To: SHAUN NICHOLSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 4713 (RAIN!!) The pressure sensers could still be used in a rain guage by using an extra senser to messure the barometric pressure. The only real problem with the idea is emptying the colector: either an automatic tipper is needed or some one must empty it by hand. - Ron Msg#: 4967 *PROJECTS* 07/19/88 07:14:31 From: PELLERVO KASKINEN To: EDWARD WOOD (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 4731 (RAIN!!) You did not goof with the pressure transducer idea. Most of the low pressure type units that you would need here are DIFFERENTIAL in any case, ie they compensate automatically for barometric pressure changes. -- PJK Msg#: 4733 *PROJECTS* 07/10/88 10:52:27 From: PELLERVO KASKINEN To: SHAUN NICHOLSON (Rcvd) Subj: SCOPES Probably nobody is familiar with Phillips scopes. The reason is the name is Philips - with a single "l". It is giant company based in the Netherlands. Worldwide status somewhere well within the 50 largest industrial corporations. Anyway, since some time last year they have had a marketing alliance with John Fluke Manufacturing. Fluke sells Philips instruments in the U.S., while Philips sells Fluke in almost all the rest of the world. Call Fluke at 206-356-5400 for information about Philips instruments. By the way, they have lately been adverticing PM3350, a 50 MHz or 100 Megasamples per second digital storage scope for less than $4000. -- PJK Msg#: 4875 *PROJECTS* 07/16/88 15:06:13 From: SHAUN NICHOLSON To: PELLERVO KASKINEN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 4733 (SCOPES) Thanks - I'll see what else I can find out about them! Msg#: 4734 *PROJECTS* 07/10/88 10:56:15 From: PELLERVO KASKINEN To: REZA POURZIA (Rcvd) Subj: SCOPES Are you sure about the low price scopes being made in England? It used to be that the 900 series was made in the UK. But I have the feeling that the latest introductions have been accompanied with hype about how it still is possible to make that kind of stuff in the U.S. What I'm talking about is the 2100/2200 series. -- PJK Msg#: 4805 *PROJECTS* 07/12/88 21:21:23 From: REZA POURZIA To: PELLERVO KASKINEN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 4734 (SCOPES) What I was referring to were the 900 series scopes. Reza Msg#: 4871 *PROJECTS* 07/16/88 06:59:08 From: PELLERVO KASKINEN To: REZA POURZIA (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 4805 (SCOPES) OK. We agree about the 900 series scopes. The thing that I must correct about my own statement is that the new series is only 2200 series, not 2100 as I happened to indicate. . -- PJK Msg#: 4735 *PROJECTS* 07/10/88 11:05:56 From: PELLERVO KASKINEN To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: MANDELBROT ENGINES Looks like nobody is continuing the discussion about the processor speed in conjunction with the Mandelbrot processing. Because nobody mentioned the Novix in this context, I feel like there is gap I need to address. . You are most likely familiar with the Novix chip that implements a direct FORTH engine in a 16 bit wide bus or in fact several buses. Running at only 4 MHz clock it can achieve 4 to 5 MIPS! Moreover, those instructions are not any RISC - they are directly high level FORTH instructions. Chuck Moore, inventor of FORTH has a computer that does not have a separate disk controller, because the processor is fast enough to do everything in line. How's that for a screamer? . I do not have actual hard numbers, but one of my acquaintances has run some Mandelbrot test on such a Novix chip based board. What takes anything between 15 minutes and 2 hours on a PC or AT depending on the version, runs in about 15 seconds on the Novix based board. Too fast to be even fun to look at.... -- PJK Msg#: 4763 *PROJECTS* 07/11/88 12:56:10 From: RON WILSON To: PELLERVO KASKINEN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 4735 (MANDELBROT ENGINES) Do you have an address for Novix? - Ron Msg#: 4872 *PROJECTS* 07/16/88 07:03:02 From: PELLERVO KASKINEN To: RON WILSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 4763 (MANDELBROT ENGINES) I believe I have it somewhere. I'll get it and return maybe tomorrow. In the meantime, there are other sources: NCR has a version of it. And Harris was just lately reported to have one. I try to dig out something about all of these, if I can find it in this mess. I am not as good in remembering where the odd stuff is after a few days or weeks as Bob Paddock.... . -- PJK Msg#: 4900 *PROJECTS* 07/18/88 09:23:07 From: STEVE CIARCIA To: PELLERVO KASKINEN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 4735 (MANDELBROT ENGINES) A Novix chip based computer would make a great project for CC INK. Any takers? --Steve Msg#: 4963 *PROJECTS* 07/19/88 06:50:29 From: PELLERVO KASKINEN To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 4900 (MANDELBROT ENGINES) I hope there are, but I personally am not up to the task. I can provide some additional information though: . The chip itself appears to be an ASIC, or application specific IC containing about 4000 gates. Compare this to the 400,000 transistors or at least 40,000 gates that most highly integrated processors, whether RISC or something else seem to contain. . There are two sources of FORTH engines presently. NCR makes the 4016 that Silicon Composers uses for its PC mountable board. Both the chip and the board have been out for a while. FORTH Inc sells the board with their software for about $5000 - 6000 . The other engine comes from Harris and is intended more openly to real time control applications The NCR chip runs at 4 MHz, if I have understood. The new Harris chip RTX 2000 runs at 20 MHz clock and sustains 10 to 20 MIPS with peaks at 30 MIPS. NCR either 303-226-9500 or 303-596-5612 (I do not know which division makes the 4016) and Harris 305-729-4629. Msg#: 4792 *PROJECTS* 07/12/88 12:06:26 From: TIMOTHY TAYLOR To: ED NISLEY (Rcvd) Subj: MASTER CONTROLLER SOFTWARE Mr. Nisley, I am having difficulty getting my PC to control the remote controller. The unit works fine otherwise. I can upload and download to/from the controller, but when I try to give the command to 'press' a remote key, the contoller gives me back the message length error message. I am following the prescribed DLE/ENQ/ACK handshake before sending remote commands. I had noticed a few errors in the document describing communicati ons with a PC. The PC to remote commands appeared to be in error (status request was said to be a '00' but seems to be a '01', download '02' and upload '03'). Different codes for press remote key were tried , but to no avail. Any suggestions ? Anything at this point would help. Thanks a million. T. Taylor Msg#: 4804 *PROJECTS* 07/12/88 19:14:57 From: ED NISLEY To: TIMOTHY TAYLOR (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 4792 (MASTER CONTROLLER SOFTWARE) Ooops... another shot to the heart. You're absolutely right, there are bugs in both the code and the doc. The tabular listing of commands is "off by one" just as you assumed; the text descriptions are correct. The "press a key" command has a bug that checks the length incorrectly (you might ask how can it be wrong with a length of 2, but it's a long and sad story), but there's an easy workaround: tell it that the length is 1 and it should work out. I uploaded a revised IRCMDS.DOC file, which will show up in the files area when Ken gets back from vacation (and recovers enough to be useful). Try it again and see how it plays... Msg#: 4820 *PROJECTS* 07/13/88 10:26:05 From: TIMOTHY TAYLOR To: TIMOTHY TAYLOR (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 4792 (MASTER CONTROLLER SOFTWARE) ED, THANKS ALOT FOR YOUR REPLY. WE'LL TRY IT AND I'LL LET YOU KNOW HOW THINGS WORKED OUT. AGAIN, THANKS. T. TAYLOR Msg#: 4823 *PROJECTS* 07/13/88 14:28:26 From: BOB PADDOCK To: GREG CROASDILL Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 3901 (FUTURE PROJECT??) From TI's "Details On Signal Processing" Issue #15: "Sound Cancellation" Nelson Industries, Inc. Has develped the dX-30 Digital Sound Control System, an active sound cancellation system based on the TMS32010 and TMS32020. The system is designed to cancel low frequency noise propagating through ducts annd pipes. The TMS320 DSPs process incoming signals from microphones from which acoustical signals, 180 degrees out of phase, are generated. A loudspeaker is used to gnerate the interfering soundwaves and cancel unwanted noise. This electronic duct silencer is ideal for controlling low-frquency fan noise in both industrial and commercial applications, such as heting, ventilating, and air conditionaing. For info call Nelson Industries, Digisonix (TM) Division at (608) 873-2470. Msg#: 4840 *PROJECTS* 07/14/88 14:34:33 From: ANDY PICKETT To: EDWARD WOOD (Rcvd) Subj: ELECTRONIC COMPASS Edward: I received the article in the mail today. Less than 1 week from Canada! I'm impressed! Too bad the U.S. Postal Service can't move that quickly! Seriously, thanks much! Looks like just what I need to continue with the project. As usual, I have a few questions! The article mentioned the May 1986 issue of Elektor Electronics (page 52) as a reference for magnetic-field sensors. Do you know if that issue gives us any more information specifically where the sensors are concerned? Also, Hall-effect devices have been around for a while now (they're even available at Radio Shack). Does any enterprising soul out there have any thoughts about using these instead of the magnetic-field sensors which are so hard to find? Thanks again. ---> Andy <--- Msg#: 4844 *PROJECTS* 07/14/88 18:52:24 From: EDWARD WOOD To: ANDY PICKETT (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 4840 (ELECTRONIC COMPASS) Yes, I believe that the May 1986 issue of Elektor does have specific information about the magneto-resistive sensors. Write to : Elektor Electronics, 1 Harlequin Avenue, Great West Road, Brentford TW8 9EW England. for information about ordering a copy of the article. - Sorry, I don't have a copy of that issue. I'm pretty sure that if you could use Hall Effect sensors the circuitry that is described in the article would not work. Hall Effect sensors are completely different from magneto-resistive sensors. Your best bet is to write to the source of the magneto-resitive sensors given in the article - near the schematic. Edward Wood Msg#: 4968 *PROJECTS* 07/19/88 07:20:03 From: PELLERVO KASKINEN To: ANDY PICKETT (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 4840 (ELECTRONIC COMPASS) The magnetoresistive components were pioneered (I think) by a company called American Aerospace Corp. I received a couple of samples in the late 60's. As to the technology, there is really not that much difference to the Hall effect. If you have no way of measuring the Hall voltage, you have a magnetoresistive component. The resistance change comes from the same phenomenon: the current is deflected into a more circuitous path and thereby travels longer - more resistance! All of these components are more sensitive to tem[rature than to reasonable amounts of magnetic field, so differential measurements are a must. -- PJK Msg#: 4841 *PROJECTS* 07/14/88 15:11:21 From: JEFF BACHIOCHI To: BOBB PADOCK Subj: AUTOMOTIVE COMPUTERS . Bob, . Auto Repair with your home PC. Sound intriguing? . Got any idea if there is any standardization between makes and models, or even manufacturers? It seems most auto computers are fairly simple, but it's tuff' to tell without a program. Got any incite in this field? . jeff Msg#: 5522 *PROJECTS* 08/01/88 09:15:52 From: DAVE MILLER To: JEFF BACHIOCHI (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 4841 (AUTOMOTIVE COMPUTERS) There is no standardization among automakers for auto computers, just as there is none or little among PC makers. Msg#: 5585 *PROJECTS* 08/02/88 09:08:30 From: JEFF BACHIOCHI To: DAVE MILLER (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 5522 (AUTOMOTIVE COMPUTERS) . Dave, . When you say no standard, do you mean: No standard Processor No standard Command Set No standard Interface . No standard between Manufacturers No standard between Models No standard between Years . . We must be talking moocho equipment to interface to each different Make, Model & Year? . jeff Msg#: 5593 *PROJECTS* 08/02/88 11:32:12 From: DAVE MILLER To: JEFF BACHIOCHI (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 5585 (AUTOMOTIVE COMPUTERS) Jeff, for each manufacturer there may be several different types of microprocessors for differing functions ie, powertrain controls may use one type of processor, instrumentation may be a differing processor. However, each manufacturer generaly will maintain compatability from year to year on each type, upgrades may happen, ie 8049 replaced by 8051 etc. and yes it dose take alot of support equipment to support all these applications, but it is nessesary in many ways, as not one processor is optimum for control applications, and informational management applications. Msg#: 5703 *PROJECTS* 08/04/88 09:30:37 From: JEFF BACHIOCHI To: DAVE MILLER (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 5593 (AUTOMOTIVE COMPUTERS) . Dave, . Thanks for your input. Electronics Magazine (July 88) just did a issue on Automotive Computers. We've got a long way to go to have truely computer controller vehicles. Auto manufacurers are really ramping up for it though! Take my Caravan for instance, the console map lights aren't just switch operated. The switches are push buttons and operate digital flip-flops which control FETs to turn the bulbs on and off. You can't tell me that this is cheaper than an on/off switch!!!!!!!! . I can see advantages and cost/space reductions in going to a solid state speedometer. An LCD can give an ANALOG (needle type display) as well as DIGITAL display in less space than a traditional mecahnical arraingement. This gives an easy interface to CRUISE CONTROL. . Thanks again! . jeff Msg#: 5753 *PROJECTS* 08/05/88 07:16:36 From: DAVE MILLER To: JEFF BACHIOCHI (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 5703 (AUTOMOTIVE COMPUTERS) There is sometimes method behind our madness! Although I don't know the exact reasons behind your caravan's light switches, I would suspect that it is an effort to protect us from ourselves, ie one step further would be to turn the lights off if no one is detected in the car, preventing you from having a dead battery the next morning. Another reason could be for detection of failures, ie. you turn off, then on again the power to the lamp filiments real quick, and during that off duration look to see if there is still voltage on the line (if the lamp were good it would discharge the line). Perhaps a cost savings? In any case, we do have a long way to go, but our vision of the roll of electronics in the future of the automobile holds alot of promice for lots of neet stuff to come. Msg#: 4842 *PROJECTS* 07/14/88 17:51:13 From: TIMOTHY TAYLOR To: ED NISLEY (Rcvd) Subj: MASTER CONTROLLER SOFTWARE ED, I'M STILL HAVING DIFFUCLTY WITH THE REMOTE KEY 'PRESS' COMMAND. THE OTHER COMMANDS WORK FINE. I AM GIVING THE CONTROLLER A MESSAGE LENGTH OF 1, BUT AFTER THAT THE ONLY COMMAND THE CONTROLLER SEEMS TO RECOGNIZE IS '03' (UPLOAD). ANY COMMAND OTHER THAN '03' SEEMS TO BE IGNORED. I AM NOT GETTING ANY ERROR MESSAGES WHATSOEVER. THE CONTROLLER JUST SEEMS NOT TO RECOGNIZE THE COMMAND. I HAVE TRIED A ZILLION DIFFERENT COMBINATIONS, BUT TO NO AVAIL. ANY SUGGESTIONS ? I'D SURE APPRECIATE ANYTHING. AS ALWAYS, THANKS ALOT. T. TAYLOR Msg#: 4973 *PROJECTS* 07/19/88 07:35:00 From: ED NISLEY To: TIMOTHY TAYLOR (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 4842 (MASTER CONTROLLER SOFTWARE) Hmm... looks like I'm going to have to fish out the code and do some simulation to see what's busted. You have the distinction of being the first person who's complained about this not working, which most likely means that you're the first person who's had the persistence to follow it through! This will take a few days to resolve, because I've got to convert the code from the old assembler to the new one (which supports the simulator with variable names and all that useful stuff). More later... Msg#: 4985 *PROJECTS* 07/19/88 09:32:57 From: TIMOTHY TAYLOR To: ED NISLEY (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 4973 (MASTER CONTROLLER SOFTWARE) Ed, I really appreciate your taking the time to give me a hand with this project. As I said before, any info you give is helpfull. (Even if it means telling me everything is working fine and I gotta find out where I screwed up ). I look foward to your next message. T. Taylor Msg#: 4851 *PROJECTS* 07/15/88 08:50:05 From: BRIAN JOSEPH To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: WELL BLOW ME DOWN.... Steve, Why don't you hit people like me on the head when we don't listen to you? I was reading some old messages and you suggested that I use an 8031, a latch, and an EPROM. I check out the price of these parts, and they cost about the same as an 8748 by itself! Well, I have a 5V EEPROM, so if I use that, I don't even need an EPROM eraser!! Well, now I have a couple of questions: 1. What's the slowest speed memory I can use with the 8031? The EEPROM is 250ns. 2. I have an 8031 now, but if I later want to go low power, will I be able to substitute the 80C31 and a 74HC373 without any changes in the circuit? 3. I want to be able to store info in the EEPROM while it is connected to the 8031. Is it possible to execute any instructions out of internal RAM or will I have to hook up some external RAM? 4. I was trying to do some baud rate calcs and the crystal I came up with for 1200 baud is the 7.xxxxx crystal you used in your Z8 computer. Since speed is not critical, and the 80C31 will consume less power at a lower clock rate, is there a lower freq xtal (standard value please!) that would provide me with 1200 baud?? Steve, when I figured out that the 8031 would be the same price as the 8748, I just couldn't believe that you hadn't told me how stubborn I was being!! Well, I finally have seen the light! Oh, yea, I really want to try to make a PC board for this project. Is there a book available to "show me how"? One last thing....I'm going to borrow part of HAL for this project. Just the 8031 and latch...If I sell this thing, do I need your permission or have to pay you your $1M buck fee??????? OHHH...(Please forgive me, it's 7:30 am and I just woke up :-) ) I need to also hook up a keyboard and an LCD display to the 8031. The display is easy, but after that I'll only have about 3 I/O lines left. I have approx 25 keys, with one being a shift key. Is there a small keyboard encoder I could use? Otherwise, I was thinking I could share data lines with the LCD display for the columns and use a 3 line to 8 line decoder for the rows...Does this sound like it might work??? HELP ME.....I'm stuck to my monitor......:-) Thanks much....Have a nice day.......Brian.... Msg#: 4853 *PROJECTS* 07/15/88 12:37:48 From: BOB PADDOCK To: BRIAN JOSEPH (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 4851 (WELL BLOW ME DOWN....) You can substatute a 74HCT373 (Note the "T") for a 74373/74LS373 in most cases. You may or may not beable to substute the 74HC373, it depends on the minimum threshold voltages of all the parts involved (ie. 80(C)31 74x373, 27(C)xxx). You can't execute intruction out of internal RAM on the 8051. Msg#: 4857 *PROJECTS* 07/15/88 15:38:02 From: JEFF BACHIOCHI To: BRIAN JOSEPH (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 4851 (WELL BLOW ME DOWN....) . Brian, . Depending on the amount of time you want to spend on programming, an option might be the BCC52C (or equivilent circuit). This board uses a CMOS 8052 w/on-board BASIC. Really cuts down on programming time and has an EPROM programmer built in as well. 80C52 chips are available from MICROMINT. . If ASSEMBLY is your language, call INTEL and get the EMBEDDED CONTROLLER HANDBOOK w/8031 series microcontrollers. This is a handy manual for learning all about the interupts, timers etc. . jeff Msg#: 4865 *PROJECTS* 07/15/88 23:33:09 From: BRIAN JOSEPH To: JEFF BACHIOCHI (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 4857 (WELL BLOW ME DOWN....) Jeff, I wanted to use the BCC52 or BCC11 (I've already built a Z8 based computer), but I'm trying to build something small and cheap. An 8048 by itself would be great, but then I have to buy(or build) a programmer and an eraser. An 8031 with a latch and EEPROM overcomes most of those problems, except for the programmer, which is very easy because I'm using a 5V r/w EEPROM. Thanks fo{ the info on the Intel book- Is it the data book or a seperate book? Thanks...:-) Brian. Msg#: 4914 *PROJECTS* 07/18/88 09:50:34 From: STEVE CIARCIA To: BRIAN JOSEPH (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 4851 (WELL BLOW ME DOWN....) There's little I can add to the comments already mentioned. Personally, I'd use the 80C52 because the EPROM programming code is already in it with the BASIC and you can still make a low chip count. I appreciate your effort for low cost but getting it up and running and our collective time expended probably counts for more. -- STeve Msg#: 5337 *PROJECTS* 07/28/88 12:25:28 From: JEFF BACHIOCHI To: BRIAN JOSEPH (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 4865 (WELL BLOW ME DOWN....) . Brian, . The Embedded Controller Handbook is the DATA BOOK on the 48, 51 and 96 family MICROs. This was formerly the Microcontroller Handbook. It has gone to two volumes, VOL 1 (8-bit) and VOL 2 (16-bit). Volume 1 is what you need! . jeff Msg#: 4868 *PROJECTS* 07/16/88 02:22:58 From: TOM WRONA To: ALL Subj: HAL ETC. Hi All, I've read the articles on HAL and I've decided to build it, even though I'm no EE. I'm interested in corresponding/talking/working with others interested in HAL and related devices. I read Megabrain last year and since then have been experimenting with a homemade TENS device with varying results. The biggest challenge is fixing it on the recommended frequency. Has anyone experimented with TENS? Photic driving? Hemisync? Alphastim type devices? You can reach me at PO Box 213, Yonkers, NY 10705. My voice number is 914-963-8024 and you can reach me on MCI mail at PTECH. Be seeing you, Tom Wrona Msg#: 5399 *PROJECTS* 07/29/88 11:19:52 From: ADAM SUNDOR To: TOM WRONA (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 4868 (HAL ETC.) I did a little experiment with TENS. Be careful. If you have ear damage as I do [tinnitus], I am told that DC either the plus or the negative [don't recall which is the villain] electrode can increase the tissue damage. The TENS unit should not really be used near the head, even though the voltage is low. The hemi-sync tunes you instead of developing your own abilities. From my experience, this stuff really works. I experimented with the brain synthesizer too. The brain really responds to inputs, be they internal or external sound or light. I tried making my own hemi-sync tapes. I ordered some from the fellow in Virginia. They were so-so. Monroe Institute was hard to find since Megabrain did not list their home town in Virginia. The TENS unit is really a low-level electroshock unit when applied to the brain, but it will work. Scary, because something external is regulating you instead of yourself regulating yourself. In reference to the TENS unit, I was referring attaching it to the ear lobes for brain research. When it is attached elsewhere, it is a safe pain reducer. Hope this helps a bit. Adam Msg#: 6808 *PROJECTS* 08/26/88 23:37:59 From: TOM WRONA To: ADAM SUNDOR Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 5399 (HAL ETC.) Hi, I was interested to hear your experiences with TENS. Did you see the latest issue of (Can't remember which one) one of the electronics mags with the construction article on a device to create hemi-sync tones? It's a two-part article. They get into details next month. Going to build that one too. Do you know how to tune the TENS to a desired frequency? How about changing amperage down to microamp range and changing wave forms? . -- Tom -- . Msg#: 4874 *PROJECTS* 07/16/88 13:49:57 From: JOHN LENNIE To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: HAL Medical supply houses are not very understanding or helpful when a non-medical person calls for a small order of EEG electrodes. In fact several calls in this major metropolitan area (San Francisco) all drew blanks. It would be helpful to have one or two sources who would accept mail orders. Do you know any? Once I know I can hook it up I'll go ahead and order a kit. Msg#: 4934 *PROJECTS* 07/18/88 11:07:44 From: STEVE CIARCIA To: JOHN LENNIE (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 4874 (HAL) CCI will be sourcing disposable electrodes but you will still have to do your own wiring :-) -- Steve Msg#: 4878 *PROJECTS* 07/16/88 16:24:48 From: SHAUN NICHOLSON To: ALL Subj: REMOTE CONTROLL Hmmm... I was skimming through the messages and noticed one that had something to do with adding a microprocessor to a remote (computer?) controlled car (I think - I can't seem to find that message now!). Anyway this reminded me of an ex-NASA engineer I saw on TV several years ago who had a computerized home. The thing that I thought was particularly unique was the lawn care aspect. He had sensors that would measure the soil moisture and water the grass as needed (nothing new) but... sensors also detected the height of the grass and at the appropriate time, a computer controlled lawn mower (about the size of a shoe box) would come out of hiding and mow the lawn! As I remember, it was pretty good about avoiding obstacles, too. Steve, don't suppose you have one of these??? Any comments? Msg#: 4935 *PROJECTS* 07/18/88 11:09:58 From: STEVE CIARCIA To: SHAUN NICHOLSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 4878 (REMOTE CONTROLL) Ed Nisley wants an automatic lawn mower so you may see one yet. As for me, I was smart enough not to have one (natural wood setting). I just bury everything in mulch. -- Steve Msg#: 5133 *PROJECTS* 07/23/88 14:44:47 From: SHAUN NICHOLSON To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 4935 (REMOTE CONTROLL) I've been trying to think of a good way to measure the height of the grass. I considered using an array of lasers (no particular reason other than I like lasers and am trying to find somethinig to do with them!) aimed at some photocells. As the grass grew, it would begin to block the laser beams... etc. Unfortunately, I have my doubts as to whether this would even work. Assuming it did, I can envision myself having some kind of lawn party; at some point enough guests block enough lasers and out comes this "box with a blade"! They might not appreciate being attacked by a lawn mower... Msg#: 6376 *PROJECTS* 08/17/88 19:22:24 From: RICHARD ANDREWS To: SHAUN NICHOLSON Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 4878 (REMOTE CONTROLL) . I remember seeing an automatic lawn mower system several years ago. The edge of the lawn, and the things that were not supposed to be mown over (like the house) had a cable buried a couple of inches underground. A fairly hefty AC current was passed through the cable. The mower unit had some sort of a magnetometer sensor arrangement which would cause the vehicle to turn when it encountered the magnetic field from the cable. The mower would just run in random directions until the whole lawn was mowed. The company selling it claimed that, even with the random pattern, the time to finish the job was about the same. Msg#: 4959 *PROJECTS* 07/18/88 23:52:37 From: RICHARD OESTERLE To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: CAD SOFTWARE Steve, How about a future article in CCINK that compares the various schematic and PCB generating software that's available? I might be in the market for this type of software in the future, but find the selection difficult. Richie Msg#: 5005 *PROJECTS* 07/20/88 09:08:24 From: STEVE CIARCIA To: RICHARD OESTERLE (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 4959 (CAD SOFTWARE) NEW CC INK EDITOR IN CHIEF Curt Franklin (formerly of BYTE) is coming aboard CC INK to be the Editor in chief. Since CC INK is subheaded, "The Computer Applications Journal" (or at least it is starting with issue #4), I'll have to see how he interprets this subject. If it can be presented less as a review and more as applications, it would be a great topic. -- Steve Msg#: 5149 *PROJECTS* 07/24/88 14:32:20 From: RICHARD OESTERLE To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 5005 (CAD SOFTWARE) Steve, Thanks for the reply. Sounds like a good idea to present is as a applications type of article. Richie Msg#: 4994 *PROJECTS* 07/20/88 01:49:44 From: MIKE ROBERTS To: ALL USERS Subj: MIDI Wondering if anyone is interested in MIDI related projects. I scanned for this topic, but no luck. Check back later to see if it's something worthwhile. Take care, Mike Msg#: 5006 *PROJECTS* 07/20/88 09:11:44 From: STEVE CIARCIA To: MIKE ROBERTS Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 4994 (MIDI) Leave a message for Curt Franklin. If he has his way, Midi will be a regular feature in CC INK. -- Steve Msg#: 5055 *PROJECTS* 07/21/88 12:25:16 From: MEGAN GENTRY To: MIKE ROBERTS Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 4994 (MIDI) Sorry, mike...didn't see your request until after I'd entered mine. Yes, I am VERY interested in MIDI-related projects, but only if they are not limited to PC installation. I have a dec pdp-11 and any PC type cards would do me no good. Msg#: 4999 *PROJECTS* 07/20/88 04:23:42 From: BOB CARLIN To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: HAL The July Circuit Cellar in BYTE says you're going to discuss the software for HAL but the discussion is very minimal. Where is the code for the Fourier transform that detects the wavelengths? Msg#: 5024 *PROJECTS* 07/20/88 17:53:47 From: BRIAN JOSEPH To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: DDT-51 AT LAST!? Steve, I got home from work and I couldn't believe my eyes--- Byte 8/88!!! Would you finally solve all my problems with your development system? Yes!!! NO? Why, in a two part article, do you put the schematic for the project in the second part???!!!! ARRRRRRGGGHHH!!:-( Well, I've waited this long so I guess 1 more month won't make a difference!! The adaptor you describe for your Serial EPROM programmer and the 8751-- will it work with any Programmer?? If so, could you please send me a copy of the schematic?? Or would you prefer for me to send a self-addressed stamped envelope??? Thanks much....... /Brian-- Brian Joseph 2922 w. Lunt Chicago,IL 60645 Msg#: 5046 *PROJECTS* 07/21/88 09:54:08 From: STEVE CIARCIA To: BRIAN JOSEPH (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 5024 (DDT-51 AT LAST!?) Don't complaint to me, Brian. I had to start my own magazine to get satisfaction. Before finally disolving the relationship with BYTE, they dictated that my articles had to have considerably more introductory material for "the widest possible audience". Hence, fluff in the first part and the schematic in the second. Of course, in CC INK our approach is to the "most intelligent audience". After December the only place you'll see projects like the DDT-51 is Circuit Cellar INK. -- Steve Msg#: 5026 *PROJECTS* 07/20/88 17:58:52 From: BRIAN JOSEPH To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: WHERE'S THE BEEF?(SOFTWARE) Steve, I really hope I just didn't miss the software, but I've searched high and low!! Where are the famed PS51A123.ARC and the DDT-51 programs??? Brian Msg#: 5041 *PROJECTS* 07/21/88 08:55:10 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: BRIAN JOSEPH (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 5026 (WHERE'S THE BEEF?(SOFTWARE)) The cross assembler should be in the IBM PC Utility area. If not, I'll get it there. As for the DDT-51 programs, give me a break. I just saw the article for the first time yesterday myself. They'll be posted sometime in the next few days. The majority of INK programs are posted well before the issue is mailed. We're winding down our BYTE support around here these days. Msg#: 5030 *PROJECTS* 07/20/88 21:05:30 From: CHRIS STEPHENS To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: BBC-180 I'M TRYING TO USE A SMARTWATCH CHIP UNDER THE 62256 SRAM BUT I NOTICE IT IS CONSTANTLY BEING ACCESSED WHICH INTERUPTS THE CODEBEING TRANSMITTED FOR ACCESS TO IT'SRTC . CAN I GET AROUND THIS PROBLEM WITHOUT MOVING THE SMARTWATCH CHIP TO ANOTHER SOCKET. ALSO, IS THERE A WAY SO THAT THE VARIABLES ARE NOT RESET ON POWER UP. Msg#: 5042 *PROJECTS* 07/21/88 09:01:17 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: CHRIS STEPHENS (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 5030 (BBC-180) There is no way to avoid the initialization of variables on power up. The only way to use the SmartWatch in the same socket as the RAM which holds all the variables is to access it from machine language with interrupts turned off, making sure that you don't make any access to RAM besides what is necessary to talk directly to the SmartWatch. This means that all the time and date parameters must be kept in registers. The easier way of doing it is to install the SmartWatch in another socket. You don't necessarily have to have a RAM chip installed for it to work. Of course, the RAM which was originally installed on it won't be battery backed anymore. Beware that the low-power Hitachi RAMs that we use actually consume more power than Dallas Semiconductor recommends. You might prematurely run down the battery if you make extensive use of the battery backing. Msg#: 5035 *PROJECTS* 07/20/88 22:39:33 From: STEVE SMITH To: DAVID BURESS (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 4098 (IMAGEWISE AND VGA) See my reply to Ed Nicely's reply. Also check out SHOWVGA.ARC. If I'm successful in uploading it, it is the solution to ImageWise pictures on the VGA. Msg#: 6273 *PROJECTS* 08/16/88 01:44:33 From: DAVID BURESS To: STEVE SMITH (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 5035 (IMAGEWISE AND VGA) Steve- Thanks for the info. I will look for the program here called SHOWVGA. I recently found a file on Datalink BBS in Texas called VGAIMW, and dont know if they are similar or not. If it is different from the file here, I will upload it. Msg#: 5036 *PROJECTS* 07/21/88 00:12:36 From: MICHAEL KOREJWO To: BILL CURLEW Subj: SOFTUART PIN-OUT I enjoyed your article in INK about the dual full duplex UART implementatio n on the 8031 family of parts. I would find it useful if a description of port 1 pins, as they are applied in your program, was included in the article. I am working on a decompression diving computer for ORCA industries and have found no information on the specific state and phase in which the timers increment. I need this information to write a interrupt latency correction routine, and need to know if the timers start/stops in the same or next instruction cycle. The simple routine allows the timer to overflow, producing an interrupt, and upon entering the corection routine I disable interrupts, stop the timer, load the high and low timer register with the (seed + rjoutine length(cycles) + original value in the timer when it was stopped) and then start the timer again. To figure the number of cycles I loose when running the interrupt routine I must know if a write to TCON or TMOD takes effect in this cycle or the next cycle? thanks, avid INK reader! Msg#: 5051 *PROJECTS* 07/21/88 11:11:57 From: MICHAEL SEEDMAN To: CCI Subj: HAL-4 Got my hal kit last nite and checked the diskette for the files listed on page 44. I don't see them all. Is there a way to get *.asm??? Thanks in advance Msg#: 5057 *PROJECTS* 07/21/88 12:27:44 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: MICHAEL SEEDMAN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 5051 (HAL-4) What is stated on that page is those files are available from CCI, not that they're included with the package. I believe CCI sells the source disk for around $20. The file I just posted in the Circuit Cellar file section also contains the source files (HAL4.ARC). Msg#: 5113 *PROJECTS* 07/22/88 19:48:13 From: MICHAEL SEEDMAN To: KEN DAVIDSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 5057 (HAL-4) Thanks ken, I thought it would be real interesting to check out the source. I didn't realize there was a price on the stuff. I will download the HAL-4.arc file ( I hope ), but how do I pay you guys? 73, Michael Msg#: 5126 *PROJECTS* 07/23/88 12:11:44 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: MICHAEL SEEDMAN Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 5113 (HAL-4) With your incredible appreciation and never-ending praise. ;-) The fee charged by CCI for the code is mostly to cover the expense of producing the disk. You can download it from here at no cost. Msg#: 5054 *PROJECTS* 07/21/88 12:22:37 From: MEGAN GENTRY To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: EIA TO MIDI INTERFACE Steve - I wanted to find out if 1) you had done any work on a possible eia to midi interface and 2) if not, would you consider it. I have done computer music on private hardware for quite a while and recenlty purchased a synthesizer with midi compatibility. I have software for my machine which will send MIDI info out a serial line, but I have no way to convert from the RS-232 to MIDI (MIDI apparently uses strange clock rates, also). What might be interesting is a box which you would attach to the db-25 connector which would have the MIDI (5-?) pin output. Msg#: 5212 *PROJECTS* 07/26/88 08:52:31 From: STEVE CIARCIA To: MEGAN GENTRY (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 5054 (EIA TO MIDI INTERFACE) I haven't done anything on MIDI but Curt is planning a few projects for CC INK. Perhaps you want to participate. Leave a message for Curt Franklin. -- Steve Msg#: 5260 *PROJECTS* 07/27/88 09:03:18 From: RON WILSON To: MEGAN GENTRY (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 5054 (EIA TO MIDI INTERFACE) For your information: MIDI is essentially a 20ma current loop working at 31.25 Kbits ( 1 MHz divided by 32). Some MIDI {_synths can tolerate 38.4 Kbits. One way of building a converter box would be to have it generate the 31.25 Kbit data clock and feed it back to to serial interface (assuming, of course, that the interface can accept an external data clock) - this is the way that Apple's interface for the MAC and IIgs works. Msg#: 5071 *PROJECTS* 07/21/88 18:13:05 From: BRIAN JOSEPH To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: BYTE BITES... Steve- I guess this means that our letters did not do any good....Well, now I can spend that money on something 100000x better then Byte- CC INK! All I can say is it's their loss!!! Does this mean that CC INK could go monthly??? Waiting 2 months inbetween issues is just about the worse thing that can happen to a person!!!{ ****************** CC INK FOREVER ********************************** I think I'm going to burn all of my Bytes - maybe just rip out your column.....{.. :-) Have a nice day!! Brian... Msg#: 5213 *PROJECTS* 07/26/88 08:55:18 From: STEVE CIARCIA To: BRIAN JOSEPH (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 5071 (BYTE BITES...) CC INK has a new Editor in Chief and a few more people are being added. At its present growth rate I would expect it to be monthly in about a year. If you really like CC INK, tell others. If the growth increases at a faster pace, everything else with happen faster too. -- Steve Msg#: 5073 *PROJECTS* 07/21/88 18:25:31 From: BENITO FLORES-MEATH To: ALL INCLUDING SYSOP Subj: RAM DRIVES Is there anyone who has seen a decent, battery backed up, RAM drive. Please, I've played VDISK games (and lost to lockups), tried JRAM and SemiDisk (not enuf memory and speed), and can't afford BatRAM. What is needed is a 2-10 megabyte ($$$) board, that has its own dynamic memory refresh, withstands CtrlAltDel, lockups, resets, and powerdowns, is as fast as VDISK on an AT/386. An a~rlternaxze would be based on the ST512 interface - the hard disk controller would see it as a hard disk. Just need some hard disglue chips plus the appropriateresh.... Please contact me at 2300 Broadmoor #100, Bryan TX 77802. Benito Flores-Meath Msg#: 5075 *PROJECTS* 07/21/88 21:19:18 From: DAVID WRESKI To: ALL Subj: SMARTSPOLLER IF YOU DON'T HAVE ONE....... BETTER TRY IT YOU WILL LOVE IT ... Msg#: 5098 *PROJECTS* 07/22/88 12:10:22 From: JOHN LAVIOLA To: ED NISLEY (Rcvd) Subj: HAL I am interested in experimenting with convolutions and smoothing with HAL and other systems involving low frequency signals. My plan was to perform the convolution in the frequency domain using the form: y(t) = F-1 ( (F(f(t)) (F(g(t)) ) where F is an DFT, and F-1 is an inverse DFT. y(t) is my smoothed array, f(t) raw array, g(t) my smoothing function. First does this look OK ? Second, what should I be reading to give me a better sense of pro's and con's of Hanning, Blackman, etc. spectral windows in 8/16 bit machine implementations. Lastly, couldn't these techniques eliminate most of the front end filtering on HAL ? Msg#: 5487 *PROJECTS* 07/31/88 18:31:55 From: ED NISLEY To: JOHN LAVIOLA (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 5098 (HAL) Well, I'll cheerfully admit that my contribution to the whole scheme was the 8031 code, so I'll pass some of the buck on FFT theory to someone else... here's what I know about it. You've got to have analog filtering on the front end to eliminate aliasing, and for applications with frequencies anywhere near the 60 Hz powerline you need LOTS of filtering to prevent overloading the inputs with HUMMMMM! Further, analog filters are really fast compared to digital signal processing on stock PCs, so there's a strong motivation to do everything you can in hardware. Perforce, doing DSP on an 8031 makes little sense unless you're very careful with the problem... 8031s won't really cut it, despite what we pulled off with the Mandelbrot engine! Msg#: 5136 *PROJECTS* 07/23/88 20:08:46 From: TIM MCDONOUGH To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: DDT-51 SYSTEM Steve - Nice article on microcontrollers. Two questions: Is the DDT-51 going to be offered as a PC board or a kit? How much software is required for the PC host? (I don't have easy access to a PC, was wondering about an SB-180). Tim McDonough Msg#: 5215 *PROJECTS* 07/26/88 09:14:45 From: STEVE CIARCIA To: TIM MCDONOUGH (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 5136 (DDT-51 SYSTEM) The DDT-51 is not a kit but the software for it will be on this BBS. Ed Nisley wrote the software so he can answer those questions best. --Steve Msg#: 5472 *PROJECTS* 07/31/88 10:08:44 From: TIM MCDONOUGH To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 5215 (DDT-51 SYSTEM) Ok. Thanks for the reply. Part 2 should be here before I have a lot of free time so I'll read "the rest of the story..." before I bug Ed. Msg#: 5490 *PROJECTS* 07/31/88 18:54:22 From: ED NISLEY To: TIM MCDONOUGH (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 5472 (DDT-51 SYSTEM) The PC software isn't too complicated. There IS a lot of it, but the only tricky part is talking to the 8031 interface hardware, which is all done through a (slightly modified) parallel port. It's all in Turbo Pascal, so I guess it's easy enough to port the whole smash to something else. I have a lump of test software that should help get the hardware working; all it needs it a little documentation... all I need is the time to write it up. Mutter, grumble... Msg#: 5794 *PROJECTS* 08/06/88 09:26:22 From: TIM MCDONOUGH To: ED NISLEY (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 5490 (DDT-51 SYSTEM) I know the feeling, re: documentation. My interest was in being able to use the DDT-51 with a Mac. Not having a parallel port would present a problem too. Looks like I may have to have a pc clone in the house yet. On another matter, do you have any examples lying around or planned for Ink that show the 8031 code required to communicate with the serial port? I'm working on a project that requires com with the rest of the world and have never written that part before. Nice job on the stepper motor article you did with Steve. It was a much better description of the motors than Dennis and I originally had in the robot arm article ("Stepping Out"). Tim Msg#: 5894 *PROJECTS* 08/08/88 21:38:30 From: ED NISLEY To: TIM MCDONOUGH (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 5794 (DDT-51 SYSTEM) Gak! No parallel port on the Mac? Such a handicap! I'll stick the serial port code a little higher on the "things to do" list, probably for early next year (which is only a few weeks away as we write this!). That stepper stuff was fun, but it made the place look like a zoo for a while, what with all the wires snaking all over the place. I LIKE the arm, and had a good deal of fun trying to pull Jeff's bench apart with it the last time I was at Micromint... Msg#: 5137 *PROJECTS* 07/23/88 20:11:49 From: TIM MCDONOUGH To: ALL Subj: R/C CONTROLS FOR PLANES & BOATS Does anyone know of a source of technical information on the inner workings of the remote control units that are used for R/C airplanes, boats and cars? I'm interested in knowing more about how the joystick and switch positions are transmitted and decoded by the receiver. Tim McDonough Msg#: 5182 *PROJECTS* 07/25/88 13:11:21 From: RON WILSON To: TIM MCDONOUGH (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 5137 (R/C CONTROLS FOR PLANES & BOATS) Several of the analog chip manufacturers make the chip sets used in R/C control systems. You can probably find the info you want from any of a number of "special" analog chip data books (Try National Semiconductor or Signetics first) - Ron Msg#: 5473 *PROJECTS* 07/31/88 10:10:12 From: TIM MCDONOUGH To: RON WILSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 5137 (R/C CONTROLS FOR PLANES & BOATS) Wouldn't happen to have a part number handy would you? The local hobby store is reluctant to let me take one apart before I buy! Msg#: 5582 *PROJECTS* 08/02/88 08:56:54 From: RON WILSON To: TIM MCDONOUGH (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 5473 (R/C CONTROLS FOR PLANES & BOATS) Sorry, I don't rember any parts numbers - the book I saw them in isn't mine is 350 miles from me - at the time, I merely gave them a glance while looking for something else - I just happenned to remember them..... Msg#: 5951 *PROJECTS* 08/09/88 19:19:30 From: JEFF JENSEN To: TIM MCDONOUGH (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 5473 (R/C CONTROLS FOR PLANES & BOATS) Tim, I check National's linear databook (1984) and found a pair of RC chips. They are the LM1871 and LM1872. They support either 4 or 6 channels, depending on whether the channels are analog or digital. I believe that it is 6 channels, all digital or 4 channels, 2 analog and 2 digital. Jameco lists them in their current catalog for a few bucks each. Motorola may have a part, too, but it isn't in their linear databook. Their CMOS Special Functions book may have something. - Jeff Msg#: 6511 *PROJECTS* 08/21/88 17:50:36 From: TIM MCDONOUGH To: JEFF JENSEN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 5951 (R/C CONTROLS FOR PLANES & BOATS) Thanks for the info. I've got the National books stashed away here somewhere. I'll look 'em up{ Basically, I want to send a stream of serial data over one of the digital channels. Tim Msg#: 6550 *PROJECTS* 08/22/88 11:49:39 From: JEFF JENSEN To: TIM MCDONOUGH (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 6511 (R/C CONTROLS FOR PLANES & BOATS) Tim, the National chips will probably do what you want, but they are not necessarily the best implementation. They probably use pulse-width modulation to send each channel, and are not terribly immune to noise. Data integrity over the link is made up for by the fact that the signal is repeated regularly and any one packet will not cause a serious problem (talk to an RC flyer about getting "glitched", a sudden twitch of the controlled craft because of loss of data). In your case, a serial bit stream may not be able to endure a "glitch" if each bit is critical to the message. If you use it to transmit repetitive information like temperature from a weather station, you could use software to toss the garbaged message. For transmitting data, you may have better luck using a single chip modem and a pair of cheap walkie-talkies. - - Jeff Msg#: 7127 *PROJECTS* 09/03/88 17:31:15 From: TIM MCDONOUGH To: JEFF JENSEN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 6550 (R/C CONTROLS FOR PLANES & BOATS) I believe Radio Electronics has an article on using a 300 bps modem chip and a pair of walkie talkies this month. Perhaps I wasn't completely clear earlier. I don't want to build my own RC gear from scratch. I want to use the existing on/off or "bomb drop" type digital channel of an existing unit to send serial data to the plane or in my case a boat. I am part of a joint venture that's building a 5ft long PT boat. An on board computer is being used to turn guns, launch torpedos, control lights, etc. Yeah, I know we're crazy but it seemed like the thing to do at the time! Tim Msg#: 7198 *PROJECTS* 09/06/88 12:22:07 From: JEFF JENSEN To: TIM MCDONOUGH (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 7127 (R/C CONTROLS FOR PLANES & BOATS) Sounds interesting. Let us know how you do it. Like the song goes, "I've always been crazy, but it keeps me from going insane" - - Jeff Msg#: 7339 *PROJECTS* 09/10/88 09:00:16 From: TIM MCDONOUGH To: JEFF JENSEN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 7198 (R/C CONTROLS FOR PLANES & BOATS) I'll keep you all posted. Actually, I had so much fun with the robot arm article that I'll probably propose this as a project to Steve once I have a better idea of the time frame involved. Tim Msg#: 5138 *PROJECTS* 07/23/88 20:16:18 From: BRUCE WEBB To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: 8031 INFORMATION I liked the way HALs circuitry was boiled down to one controller chip and the flexibility of port configurations (using a port for Memory addressing etc.) Where does a guy find out more about the 8031 ? Is there a PC cross-assembler for it ? I've order CC Ink; Will there be more projects based on that chip ? By the way, I'm sorry to see you leaving BYTE. I've liked the mag for a long time, and really enjoyed your columns. I guess this is a sign of changing times. I've written them a letter saying how disappointed I am. Do you know if they plan to have any 'construction' articles in the future ? Anyway Good Luck with CC Ink. I'm looking forward to my first issue. Msg#: 5216 *PROJECTS* 07/26/88 09:23:46 From: STEVE CIARCIA To: BRUCE WEBB (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 5138 (8031 INFORMATION) The next project after HAL is a 8051 development system. That's what you need. BYTE has gone the clone route. As far as I know, they might have "technology" articles but no construction. -- Steve Msg#: 5151 *PROJECTS* 07/24/88 14:52:08 From: RICHARD OESTERLE To: ALL Subj: PS/2 PRINTER PORT "READ" OOPS, EXCUSE ME FLOKS SEEMS LIKE ME PREVIOUS MSG. DID'NT FORMAT THE WAY I EXPECTED SO HERE IT IS AGAIN! . . I just got a chance to read the article "Circuit Cellar Neighborhood Strategic Defence Initiative" (March/April 88 issue of CCINK), and was interested in the fact that the IBM PS/2 computers can READ from as well as WRITE to the printer port. Although the use of this port in this article, does not require the use of the "STROBE NOT" signal, I'm curious as to its timming relative to the data lines when READING from this port. Could someone fill me in on this as it relates to the IBM PS/2 model 30? My understanding of the timming for a WRITE to this port is shown below: . . . _______ _____________________________________ ________ . \ / \ / . \/ \/ .DATA LINES /\ DATA VALID /\ . _______/ \_____________________________________/ \________ . . . ___________ ___________________________________ __ . | | | | . | | | | .STROBE NOT LINE | | | | . |____| |____| . ^----------- data valid here . . . But what happens on a READ form this port? Thanks, Richie Msg#: 5491 *PROJECTS* 07/31/88 18:58:32 From: ED NISLEY To: RICHARD OESTERLE (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 5151 (PS/2 PRINTER PORT "READ") It's painfully simple... the outgoing strobe has nothing at all to do with the incoming data! The PC code simply gets a sample of whatever is on the data lines when it does the read. If you need to do some handshaking, "it's a simple matter of software" to poll one of the standard input lines for an edge or level that tells you when the data is ready. You could set up interrupts to tell you when to read, but that's probably more trouble than it's worth for a simple application. For what it's worth, you tell the port to become a "read-only" port by setting bit 5 in the control register, which is unused on standard PC parallel ports: it's the same bit we've used on a lot of projects, and we were glad to see IBM recognize the obvious! Msg#: 5737 *PROJECTS* 08/04/88 22:15:57 From: RICHARD OESTERLE To: ED NISLEY (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 5491 (PS/2 PRINTER PORT "READ") Ed, Thanks much for all the info! Richie Msg#: 5155 *PROJECTS* 07/24/88 21:45:10 From: ROBERT BERGER To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: HAL AND THE MAC Has anyone implemented the Hal 4 software on a Mac? I'm about to embark on this as my first Mac Hack. I've been programming in C for about 8 years but programming the Mac looks difficult since I can't even figure out how to access the serial port yet! So if anyone has already tackled Hal and the Mac, please have them contact me. Bob Berger 508-535-6644 days 508-374-4974 eve. or if you are on usenet or arpanet: berger@datacube.com Msg#: 5218 *PROJECTS* 07/26/88 09:37:30 From: STEVE CIARCIA To: ROBERT BERGER Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 5155 (HAL AND THE MAC) We'd love to have MAC software for HAL. None exists yet. Let me know if you accomplish it. --Steve Msg#: 5474 *PROJECTS* 07/31/88 10:25:06 From: TIM MCDONOUGH To: ROBERT BERGER Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 5155 (HAL AND THE MAC) Programming the Mac in general is not easy, especially the first time out. The best introduction in my opinion is a combination of Borland's Turbo Pascal, Turbo Pascal Tutot (Mac version), and a copy of Programming With Macintosh Turbo Pascal by Tom Swan. My preference is usually to program in C but I've been pretty disapointed in the tutorial offerings for the Mac. I've also learned that there's no substitute for having Volumes 1-5 of Inside Macintosh. Not cheap, but somewhat essential. If you are faced with buying all 5 volumes at once (well over $100) I recommend you join the Apple Programmer's and Developer's Association. They carry Inside Macintosh and a raft of other Mac goodies at better than street prices in some cases. They can be contacted at: APDA 290 SW 43rd Street Renton, WA 98055 (206) 251-6548 Tim McDonough Oh, yeah. The nicest thing about Swan's book is there are a lot of "template" type examples that you can easily modify to ease the process of writing a true Mac style program. Msg#: 5792 *PROJECTS* 08/06/88 04:18:21 From: ROBERT EUGSTER To: TIM MCDONOUGH (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 5474 (HAL AND THE MAC) I recently bought Lightspeed Pascal in hopes of learning Mac programming. You are right, it is difficult the first time out. Having to change the way I think about programming (command? driven to event driven is not easy). It seems I am faced with buying all 5 volumes at once. Now I'll just wait and get them from APDA at "better than street prices". Happy to see other MACkers on here besides me. Robert Msg#: 5795 *PROJECTS* 08/06/88 09:33:42 From: TIM MCDONOUGH To: ROBERT EUGSTER (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 5792 (HAL AND THE MAC) Swan's book should be helpful even if you're using LS Pascal instead of Turbo. I actually bought LightSpeed C as my first Mac language but they have no tutorial available and one of the few books that teach Mac programming in C ("C Programming Technques for the Macintosh" by Medniekes and Schilke) has examples that are 'supposed' to work with LS C, but don't. Good luck. Tim Msg#: 5972 *PROJECTS* 08/10/88 02:53:20 From: ROBERT EUGSTER To: TIM MCDONOUGH (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 5795 (HAL AND THE MAC) Thanks. I'll check out Swan's book the next time I get to the big city bookstore. I gave APDA a ring. Lady said they would rush me everything I need to know.(nice people). Appreciate the help. Robert E. Msg#: 6512 *PROJECTS* 08/21/88 17:53:15 From: TIM MCDONOUGH To: ROBERT EUGSTER (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 5972 (HAL AND THE MAC) Another thing to check out if you don't want tokO have to learn all there is to know about the Mac is ZBasic from ZEDCOR. The Mac version makes it really easy to do all the windows, mice, menus etc. on;y problem is I just don't like BASIC as well as Pascal or C. Tim McDonough Msg#: 5167 *PROJECTS* 07/25/88 09:09:39 From: MIKE GREENHILL To: STIEVE CIARCIA Subj: MY MAG. Greetings from the Land of OZ., I see you have started posting details of projects in CC-INK volume 4 !! I haven't even got volume 3 yet !!. I guess it's on the way is it ? (via China ????? ;-) ) mike Msg#: 5221 *PROJECTS* 07/26/88 10:21:31 From: STEVE CIARCIA To: MIKE GREENHILL (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 5167 (MY MAG.) If you have some question about receiving issue #3 (provided you didn't order it 3 days ago) call the INK subscription line at 203-875-2199. --Steve Msg#: 5190 *PROJECTS* 07/25/88 20:45:34 From: SCOTT THOMAS To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: MASTER CONTROLLER I am building the master controller and need some help with finding the DS1210. I called Dallas Semiconductor and they said that I would have to purchase $100 worth of the part. I just need one of them so I contacted the local Radio Shack and ordered one of them. About two days ago they called and told me that they were no longer able to furnish the part to me. The controller is finished except for this chip. If any one could help me find one of these parts it would be greatly appreciated. Msg#: 5220 *PROJECTS* 07/26/88 09:47:28 From: STEVE CIARCIA To: SCOTT THOMAS (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 5190 (MASTER CONTROLLER) CCI stocks the DS1210. Call (203-875-2751) and ask for Dianne. -- Steve Msg#: 5192 *PROJECTS* 07/26/88 00:08:01 From: AL LOW To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: ADVICE GIVEN IN ASK BYTE In the August issue of Byte, the ASK BYTE section there was a request from a reader for a 3.5" floppy disk dirve capable of doing both IBM and MAC formats. Steve's answer was that it wasn't likely to be done. Well, In Micro Cornucopia #42 (July-August) issue there is a review of COPY II PC (Delux Option Board) that claims to do MAC 400k and 800K disks (read, format and write) using that board and a "standard IBM 720K" 3.5" drive. and according to the review the board "works like gangbusters". The address they gave for the product was: Copy II PC Delux Option Board Central Point Software 900 SW Capitol Highway Portland, OR 97219 (503) 244-5782. Msg#: 5259 *PROJECTS* 07/27/88 08:56:39 From: RON WILSON To: AL LOW Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 5192 (ADVICE GIVEN IN ASK BYTE) I would be douptful that a "standard" IBM 3.5 drive could read/write any Apple format because Apple does some very weird things with their format - however, I have seen products that can use a disk drive designed to be Apple compatable to read/write MS-DOS formats. (one of them is a PC-on-a-card that has a connector for an Apple (or compatable) 3.5 disk drive) Msg#: 5416 *PROJECTS* 07/29/88 18:37:30 From: JEFF JENSEN To: AL LOW Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 5192 (ADVICE GIVEN IN ASK BYTE) I have one of the Copy II Option Boards, and in fact for certain applications it does work like gangbusters. Those include reading writing and formating a MAC 800K disk on a 720K disk drive, blind copying IBM format 360, and 720 K disks, and blind copying Apple II single-sided 5 1/4 disks. The board installs in between the regular floppy controller and floppy drives. It is transparent during normal drive operations and only works under program control (it installs into an open PC Bus slot). However, it has some limitations that may not allow it to work for the guy in Byte. They are itemized on page 6 of the owners manual: . Both source and target drive must be PHYSICALLY configured as . drive A and B, not LOGICALLY through DOS. . . Both drives must be internal, not connected to the external . port. . . Some 720K, 3 1/2 drives don't work well. . . Copying from a 5 1/4 to a 3 1/2 drive will produce a 360K disk. . . It cannot read from a 360K or 720K drive and write to a 1.2 meg . drive. (The flux reversals don't translate from one format to . another, I guess). . . It cannot read from or write to a 1.2 Meg diskette. (I assume . they are talking about the medium, which has a much higher . coercivity than a 360/720 K disk). . . It cannot read from a 360K or 720K drive and write to a 1.44 . Meg drive. (Same problem as 1.2 meg). . . It cannot write to 1.44 Meg diskettes. . If the guy in Byte wants to use the drive in a computer with a free PC/XT/AT Bus slot, with DOS access to 1.44 Meg diskettes and copy card access to 800K diskettes from a MAC, it should work. If he wants to get fancy, it may not. Also remember that the file formats for MAC may not translate into an IBM readable format. I had to convert a MACWrite document to ASCII format on the MAC before the IBM could make heads or tails of it. The translation of file names from MAC to IBM is handled by truncating the MAC name. . . Jeff Msg#: 5222 *PROJECTS* 07/26/88 10:53:12 From: STEVE HORACEK To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: IMAGE WISE SYSTEM Is there a way to overlay alphanumeric text onto the live rs-170 video. I have looked into various crt controllers but it doesn't seem obvious on how to do it. Any insight would be greatly appreciated. Msg#: 5242 *PROJECTS* 07/26/88 21:24:59 From: ALEXANDER SCHNEIDER To: STEVE HORACEK (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 5222 (IMAGE WISE SYSTEM) You'd need something called a genlock or sync to do that. It involves more than just a Y adapter, there should be existing genlock boards for the IBM PC. Alex Msg#: 5261 *PROJECTS* 07/27/88 09:15:03 From: RON WILSON To: STEVE HORACEK (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 5222 (IMAGE WISE SYSTEM) Aside from the fact that the Image Wise system can't do overlays in realtime, it does represent the basic elements required to do overlays digitally. A higher resolution (preferably color, too) unit that combined digitizing, undigitizing, and computer access to the video buffer could do it in real time. Of course, such a unit without the direct computer access to the video buffer could be used as a frame synchronizer - the basic component of a general switching and special effects systems that can handle several non- synchronized video sources (a frame synch unit simply reads the incoming video on it's own synch and simultainiously outputs the stored video in synch with the system's master synch clock) Msg#: 6438 *PROJECTS* 08/18/88 16:25:49 From: RICHARD ANDREWS To: STEVE HORACEK Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 5222 (IMAGE WISE SYSTEM) . The Texas Instruments TMS9118 video display processor chip allows for an external video input which is used as a background. The chip itself can do 40 column by 24 line text. The chip can also do graphics and use sprites. I believe that Steve did a column using this chip some time back. As I recall it was in the same issue that talked about the language Logo. That would probably make it an August issue, try 1983 or so. Msg#: 6460 *PROJECTS* 08/19/88 09:18:19 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: RICHARD ANDREWS (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 6438 (IMAGE WISE SYSTEM) Yes, Steve did an *article* about the 9918 in the August 1982 issue of BYTE. Even though the chip has a video input meant for doing overlays, the external circuitry required to syncronize everything effectively makes the feature worthless. The new ImageWise/PC (digitizer/display board for the IBM bus) will do real-time video overlays. The board is being designed as we type. Msg#: 6665 *PROJECTS* 08/24/88 16:54:03 From: RICHARD ANDREWS To: KEN DAVIDSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 6460 (IMAGE WISE SYSTEM) . I've never actually tried to use the video overlay input with the 9918 but I just thought that I would stick my two cents in. By the way what is the price range for the various Imagewise/PC configuartions? Msg#: 6697 *PROJECTS* 08/25/88 08:38:14 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: RICHARD ANDREWS (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 6665 (IMAGE WISE SYSTEM) I haven't got a clue. We haven't even finished designing the board let alone put together configurations or price the thing out. Check back in another two months and we might have some idea. Msg#: 6710 *PROJECTS* 08/25/88 10:09:49 From: STEVE CIARCIA To: RICHARD ANDREWS (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 6665 (IMAGE WISE SYSTEM) Don't be negative, now :-) The ImageWise PC is designed but not a PC board yet. Our attempt is to price it less that the serial versions but it is too early to know. --Steve Msg#: 6718 *PROJECTS* 08/25/88 15:05:56 From: RICHARD ANDREWS To: KEN DAVIDSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 6697 (IMAGE WISE SYSTEM) . Thanks for the info, I wait with baited breath. Msg#: 5230 *PROJECTS* 07/26/88 18:51:28 From: BRIAN JOSEPH To: ALL Subj: PC INTERFACE I would like to build a simple EEPROM programmer for a PC. The EEPROM programs at 5V. 1) Do I need to buffer the address and data lines{ 2) Is there a problem with using a 24" 28pin dip jumper cable so I could close the cover on the computer?? I'm worried about noise. I figured I could just wire up an address decoder and that would be it.. thanks....Brian Msg#: 5254 *PROJECTS* 07/27/88 07:30:52 From: BOB PADDOCK To: BRIAN JOSEPH (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 5230 (PC INTERFACE) If you hang a 24" ribbion cable on your computer with out buffering, you have just hadded a vary high capacitance antenna to your computer buss. Not great for reliablity of the computer. Buffering is the way to go, besides it will problably save the computer from when you drop the ribbion cable on the the peice of metal that always seems to be around when you drop such a cable. Msg#: 5296 *PROJECTS* 07/27/88 17:51:51 From: BRIAN JOSEPH To: BOB PADDOCK (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 5254 (PC INTERFACE) Yes, I forgot about the metal case...probably would look like the 4th of July!!! Do I need to use high speed logic?? My cpu can go 8mhz, but I usually run it at 4.77....Also, do you know which memory block would be ok to use?? I have a hard drive and a display card which both have EPROMS on board. My motherboard has about 4 empty sockets for EPROM. Could I just buffer the a/d lines from one of these sockets?? This would make life a lot easier!! Thanks!!! Brian. Msg#: 5340 *PROJECTS* 07/28/88 12:37:09 From: BOB PADDOCK To: BRIAN JOSEPH (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 5296 (PC INTERFACE) At 8 MHz 74HCT or 74LS parts should work. As for your other questions, I'am farid I can't help, I know vary little about the PC. Msg#: 5246 *PROJECTS* 07/27/88 00:08:29 From: MIKE SICOTTE To: ALL Subj: SURGE PROTECTORS I HAVE BEEN TRYING TO FIND AN OLD CIRCUIT CELLAR PROJECT THAT USED MOSFETS IN A BASIC AC TERMINAL STRIP TO CONSTRUCT A SIMPLE SURGE PROTECTOR. IF ANYONE COULD POINT ME TO THAT ARTICAL OR BRIEFLY RECAP THE METHOD I WOULD GREATLY APPRECITE IT. Msg#: 5264 *PROJECTS* 07/27/88 09:19:32 From: RON WILSON To: MIKE SICOTTE (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 5246 (SURGE PROTECTORS) As I recall, it used MOV's not MOSFET's. You can buy MOV's at Radio Shack and other places. The unit consisted of connecting 3 MOV's: one from HOT to GROUND, one from NEUTRAL to GROUND, and the last from HOT to NEUTRAL. Msg#: 5269 *PROJECTS* 07/27/88 09:39:52 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: MIKE SICOTTE (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 5246 (SURGE PROTECTORS) The article you're looking for is "Keep Power-Line Pollution Out of Your Computer" and appeared in the December 1983 issue of BYTE. Msg#: 5360 *PROJECTS* 07/28/88 23:14:17 From: MIKE SICOTTE To: RON WILSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 5264 (SURGE PROTECTORS) THANKS ALOT FOR THE INFO. I'LL CHECK INTO RADIO SHACK MIKE Msg#: 5361 *PROJECTS* 07/28/88 23:15:10 From: MIKE SICOTTE To: KEN DAVIDSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 5269 (SURGE PROTECTORS) THANKS ALOT. THATS JUST THE INFO I WAS LOOKING FOR. MIKE Msg#: 5250 *PROJECTS* 07/27/88 03:54:59 From: JASON SOLOFF To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: 8031 MEMORY DEAR STEVE, ......I JUST READ YOUR AUGUST ARTICLE ON THE MICROCONTROLLERS, AND THEY ARE PERFECT FOR MY NEEDS. JUST ONE PROBLEM, I STINK AT ASSEMBLY. IS THERE A BASIC MADE FOR THE 8031? .............JASON SOLOFF Msg#: 5255 *PROJECTS* 07/27/88 07:54:30 From: BOB PADDOCK To: JASON SOLOFF (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 5250 (8031 MEMORY) You want a copy of "Interpreter: MCS-51 Tiny BASIC, V2.2" Order No. BF10. Also worth requesting are: "Math Package: 8051" Order No.: CA18, "Math Package: High Speed Binary Math Package for 8031/8051" Order No. CA21, and "Convert: 8051 Binary to/from BCD" Order No.: BB24. To order or obtain more information contact the Insite User Library, SC6-5000, Intel Corp. 3065 Bowers Ave., Santa Clara CA 95051 (408) 987-6239. Msg#: 5266 *PROJECTS* 07/27/88 09:24:04 From: RON WILSON To: JASON SOLOFF (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 5250 (8031 MEMORY) There is another version of the 8031/8051 family called the 8052. As stated in the article, the 8052 has more onboard RAM. One version of the 8052 has a BASIC interpretor masked into the onboard ROM. Steve's BCC52 project used this version of the 8051/8052 chip. I think it's available through Micro Mint. Msg#: 5270 *PROJECTS* 07/27/88 09:42:35 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: JASON SOLOFF (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 5250 (8031 MEMORY) As someone else mentioned, you want the 8052 with on-board BASIC-52. Steve's BCC52 project appeared in the August 1985 issue of BYTE and the board is available assembled from Micromint and in kit form from CCI. Msg#: 5276 *PROJECTS* 07/27/88 10:30:44 From: STEVE CIARCIA To: JASON SOLOFF (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 5250 (8031 MEMORY) As others have mentioned, you should be using the 8052 if want a BASIC. A further note is that Micromint sells a new CMOS version of the 8052AH-BASIC chip (which is a real power sucker by comparison). It is called a 80C52 and only available from Micromint at $35 Add $15 for the BASIC-52 manual. --Steve Msg#: 5288 *PROJECTS* 07/27/88 14:12:00 From: BOB PADDOCK To: JASON SOLOFF (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 5250 (8031 MEMORY) I almost forgot, you also would need to order BF14, the documantation. As every one else has pointed out the newer 80(C)52 is the way to go to build some thing. But if you want to play with optimizing the source code to BASIC for some reason you can, where if you go with the 80(C)52 you can't Msg#: 5313 *PROJECTS* 07/28/88 01:42:20 From: JASON SOLOFF To: BOB PADDOCK (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 5255 (8031 MEMORY) THANKS BOB. ........................_-(JASON SOLOFF)-_........................... Msg#: 5351 *PROJECTS* 07/28/88 21:11:56 From: JASON SOLOFF To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 5276 (8031 MEMORY) THANKS STEVE, .......INFORMATION RECIEVED, MUCH OBLIGED .............._-(JASON)-_ Msg#: 5352 *PROJECTS* 07/28/88 21:13:12 From: JASON SOLOFF To: BOB PADDOCK (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 5288 (8031 MEMORY) THANKS BOB. _-(JASON)-_ Msg#: 5273 *PROJECTS* 07/27/88 10:03:14 From: STEVE CIARCIA To: STEVE HORACEK (Rcvd) Subj: NEW IMAGEWISE/PC The answer to your questions are yes and no. The present ImageWise (serial) can not do overlays but a new one in the works can. Ed, Ken, and I are working on the new ImageWise/PC to be presented in Circuit Cellar INK issue #6. ImageWise/PC will be an IBM PC card which has both the grayscale digitizer and display electronics on the same board. Resolution with still be a maxium of 256 by 244 (useable on either NTSC or PAL) but it will have 256 level grayscale and genlock capability that allows the picture in memory to be overlayed on the live camera picture. There are lots of variations on the board and it will be available in a few configurations. And, as always with Circuit Cellar, readers of Circuit Cellar INK will have the complete details of its construction and access to the software via this BBS. So, if you can wait a few months, we have your answer along with many other "hot" projects. --Steve Msg#: 5289 *PROJECTS* 07/27/88 14:41:58 From: ALAN GOLDSTEIN To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: DISK DRIVE FOR HP . Just got my Aug. Byte and read the Ask Byte column. James Hazel asked about disk drives for an HP IPC. There is a company called Bering which produces several different types of disk drives compatible with HP-IB and SS/80. Their 5000 series Bernoulli removable platter drive and 8000 series hard disks will work with the IPC (according to the sales flyer) and are 1/2 to 2/3 of the HP price for similar equipment. We recently purchased a 5000 dual platter Bernoulli drive for one of our HP minicomputers and have had no compatibility or operational problems. You might pass this on to Mr. Hazel. The company is: Bering Industries 240 Hacienda Ave. Campbell, CA 95008-6687 (408) 379-6900 Msg#: 5301 *PROJECTS* 07/27/88 19:41:27 From: BRIAN JOSEPH To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: MAR/APR INK-CCNSDI Steve, I was looking at the Mar/Apr INK and I remembered you mentioned something about making the PC's parallel port bi-directional. I was looking over the schematic and I think my printer port has the same circuit. My questio{ i{ this: in your schematic on page 10, you show a 74LS374. Is this supposed to be a 74LS373??? Thanks! Brian. Msg#: 5318 *PROJECTS* 07/28/88 08:57:56 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: BRIAN JOSEPH (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 5301 (MAR/APR INK-CCNSDI) In checking the schematic for the official IBM printer adapter, it is indeed a 74LS374. The only difference between a '373 and a '374 is the '373 uses a level-sensitive gate to transfer the input data to the output pins and a '374 uses an edge-sensitive clock input. Msg#: 5302 *PROJECTS* 07/27/88 19:48:08 From: BRIAN JOSEPH To: ALL Subj: XMODEM INFO Does anyone know of a good source of info on Xmodem? I would like to write a term program. Thanks. Brian. Msg#: 5341 *PROJECTS* 07/28/88 12:41:03 From: BOB PADDOCK To: BRIAN JOSEPH (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 5302 (XMODEM INFO) Look through the files section here, I think I all read uploaded example XMODEM source code. Look trough the old messages I think there is some thing about it there(?). Msg#: 5322 *PROJECTS* 07/28/88 10:20:09 From: KEVIN RICE To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: TOOL FOR A51 ASSEMBLER HI! I'VE UPLOADED A FILE NAMED COPYERRS.ARC CONTAINING A UTILITY I WROTE WHICH I FEEL INVALUABLE WHEN USING THE A51 ASSEMBLER ASSOCIATED WITH THIS MONTHS BYTE ARTICLE. IT ALSO WORKS WITH THE OTHER PSEUDOSAM ASSEMBLERS. COMPLETE INFORMATION IS OFFERED IN THE DOC FILE INCLUDED, BUT BRIEFLY, THE PROGRAM COPIES ERROR MESSAGES FROM THE LIST FILE OUTPUT FROM THE ASSEMBLER INTO THE SOURCE FILE SO THAT ERRORS MAY BE EDITED DIRECTLY WITHOUT GOING BACK AND FORTH BETWEEN THE TWO FILES. THE SAME PROGRAM ALSO REMOVES THE ERROR MESSAGES COPIED INTO THE SOURCE BEFORE RE-ASSEMBLY. IF YOU FIND IT USEFUL, PUT IT ON THIS BOARD WHERE EVERYONE MAY BENEFIT. -ALSO- GOOD TIMING ON THE 8051 PROJECT! I AM CURRENTLY INVOLVED IN DESIGNING AN 8031 SYSTEM FOR LASER ENTERTAINMENT IN WHICH WE NEEDED JUST SUCH A TOOL. Msg#: 5355 *PROJECTS* 07/28/88 22:14:18 From: BUDDY PRICE To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: MICROCONTROLLERS The Intel Microcontroller Handbooks are $23.00 if ordered from them (2 volume set). However, they can be obtained from Jameco for $17.95... a slight discount for those penny pinching. Msg#: 5400 *PROJECTS* 07/29/88 13:56:06 From: JOHN LAVIOLA To: HAL USERS Subj: HAL HAL has already earned his keep at my company. We pumped a pulse pressure signal into HAL and learned some interesting things about our bandpass filter. Msg#: 5401 *PROJECTS* 07/29/88 14:19:05 From: STEVE CIARCIA To: JOHN LAVIOLA (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 5400 (HAL) How about giving us a few more details, John. Pulse pressure? Bandpass filters? -- Steve Msg#: 5533 *PROJECTS* 08/01/88 12:19:35 From: JOHN LAVIOLA To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 5401 (HAL) I am involved in non-invasive blood pressure monitor work. The commercial NIBP monitor can be readily found in drug stores, etc. Our monitors are specially designed for "hostile" environments; we are quite interested in new approaches to handling noisy environments. Currently our monitor's signal processing involves ad hoc/ time domain analysis; we look for peaks, rail slamming, rise/fall times, etc. I started thinking as I was reading about HAL - our "fundamental" pulse pressure spectra is about 10 Hz. We've done some work on using FFT techniques in data smoothing. Seeing what HAL does makes me think an 8-bit real time FFT frequency domain blood pressure monitor may be more than entirely possible ! Oh, about our band pass filter - HAL uncovered an error in calculation of our filter in a recent prototype. Discretely our low pass and high pass filters looked great, cascaded with a little gain the center frequency of the effective band pass "moved". Hal identified the attentuation of 10 hz. . Needless to say it didn't make engineering too good but we appreciate HAL's help. Msg#: 5424 *PROJECTS* 07/30/88 02:53:25 From: GRIFFITTH FERRELL To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: IMAGEWISE Just completed the digitizer/x-miter and have yet to finish the receiver. However I do have software from HOGWARE ZIP and seem to have problems with the dig/x-m in the form of vertical overlap the software is grabing the picture allright on the lower half of the image but the upper half is split into 1/4's(the top right 1/4 is doubled on the top left 1/4) and I don'tr thinkt's the software causing the problem. On U7, pin 8, I (if I'm reading the power table right) don't have -12 volts I'm right at -5. Would this be the source of my problem? All the other voltages are right on target. Msg#: 5440 *PROJECTS* 07/30/88 12:34:11 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: GRIFFITTH FERRELL Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 5424 (IMAGEWISE) The RS-232 voltage has nothing to do with how the image is being digitized. Any voltage from -5V to -12V should work just fine. It sounds like the A14 bit on the memory chip which covers the top half of the screen (U15) is stuck high. Make sure there aren't any shorts on that pin (U15, pin 1) and make sure it isn't sticking out of the socket or bent over. If you don't find anything, try swapping the memory chips. If the problem moves to the bottom of the screen, then you have a bad chip. Msg#: 5433 *PROJECTS* 07/30/88 12:05:28 From: BRIAN JOSEPH To: KEN DAVIDSON (Rcvd) Subj: XMODEM SOURCE, ETC... Ken, Do you know if there are any files on xmodem on this board? Someone said they thought they saw them, but I looked around and couldn't find 'em! Also, what is the lock entry mode when I enter the editor? Thanks much......Brian Msg#: 5441 *PROJECTS* 07/30/88 12:37:15 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: BRIAN JOSEPH (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 5433 (XMODEM SOURCE, ETC...) I don't think we have them here anywhere. They may have been on the old board. I'll look around. lock mode is used to upload a message that has been prepared off-line. The prompts used are either very brief (one character) or nonexistent, depending on what your software wants to see. All the rules about leaving a blank line between paragraphs and leaving at least one space on a blank line still apply as they do when in ine mode. Msg#: 5460 *PROJECTS* 07/30/88 22:45:19 From: ARNOLD BERKOWITZ To: KEN DAVIDSON (Rcvd) Subj: SELECTIVE SCANNING OF MESSAGE Dear Ken, Is there a way to selectively scan project messages by project name? For example, IMAGEWISE$subject to find all mention of IMAGEWISE in the subject title. It would save me a great deal of connect time. Second, are you planning a Circuit Cellar convention or get together so that many of the BBS users can meet ? ( I'll check back in one month for your reply.) Msg#: 5508 *PROJECTS* 08/01/88 08:26:43 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: ARNOLD BERKOWITZ (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 5460 (SELECTIVE SCANNING OF MESSAGE) You can do a selective scan on the subject field of all the messages, and since most messages which deal with a particular project will mention the project in the subject field, chances are you'll be able to find what you're looking for. The tricky part is coming up with some search strings that will match the project you want. For example, the serial EPROM programmer is often referred to as SEP, CCSEP, Serial Programmer, Serial EPROM Programmer, and so on. You'd have to search for "SEP," "Serial," and "EPROM" to be sure you matched them all. There has been talk about a get together, but nothing formal is being done as yet. Msg#: 6832 *PROJECTS* 08/27/88 23:01:59 From: ARNOLD BERKOWITZ To: KEN DAVIDSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 5508 (SELECTIVE SCANNING OF MESSAGE) thanks. msg rec'd. Msg#: 5463 *PROJECTS* 07/30/88 23:47:01 From: THOMAS MAYFIELD To: SYSOP (Rcvd) Subj: PS51A123.ARC ARC.EXE WILL NOT EXTRACT A51.DOC OR MNEMTEST.ASM FROM PS51A123.ARC. ERROR MESSAGE READS... YOU NEED NEWER VERSION OF ARC.EXE. I DOWNLOADED PS51A123.ARC A SECOND TIME, BUT WITH SAME RESULTS. IS THIS A BUG OR DO I NEED A NEWER VERSION OF ARC.EXE? Msg#: 5507 *PROJECTS* 08/01/88 07:55:56 From: BOB PADDOCK To: THOMAS MAYFIELD (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 5463 (PS51A123.ARC) Use PKARC35 or PK36 to extract A51. It is on here some place. Msg#: 5509 *PROJECTS* 08/01/88 08:28:14 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: THOMAS MAYFIELD (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 5463 (PS51A123.ARC) That's right. Download the file called PKA35X35.EXE from the IBM PC Utilities area and run it. It breaks itself apart. I'll have to post a copy in the Project files area since I can see this may cause problems. Msg#: 5640 *PROJECTS* 08/03/88 02:29:41 From: BOB HARDY To: THOMAS MAYFIELD (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 5463 (PS51A123.ARC) thomas, i used a new version (v6.0 i think) and had no trouble at all. good luck. Msg#: 5495 *PROJECTS* 07/31/88 20:46:18 From: DOUGLAS MOORE To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: 11.059 MHZ CRYSTALS WHERE DOES ONE OBTAIN 11.059 MHZ CRYSTALS? CAN YOU RECOMMEND A VENDOR? Msg#: 5527 *PROJECTS* 08/01/88 09:27:55 From: STEVE CIARCIA To: DOUGLAS MOORE (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 5495 (11.059 MHZ CRYSTALS) Send micromint a check for $4.50 plus about $.50 postage and they will send you one (if you call, there is a $25 minimum order. A check in hand, however, seems to work wonders). --Steve Msg#: 5782 *PROJECTS* 08/05/88 21:48:26 From: DOUGLAS MOORE To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 5527 (11.059 MHZ CRYSTALS) Thanks very much Steve. I appreciate the fast response to my question concerning 11.059 mhz crystals. --Doug Msg#: 5499 *PROJECTS* 08/01/88 01:18:34 From: JOSE ARAUZ To: SYSOP (Rcvd) Subj: TROUBLE IN FINDING THE DOWNLOAD COMMAND TO: SYSOP hI, MY NAME IS JOSE ARAUZ AND I AM A CURRENT SUBSCRIBER OF CIRCUIT CELLAR INK. THIS IS MY FIRST TIME IN THE BBS AND AFTER 20 MINUTES OF TRYING TO DOWNLOAD ONE OF THE FILES FOR THE AUGUST 88 BYTE MAGAZINE I GIVE UP. I WOULD APPRECIATE TO SEE SOME INSTRUCTIONS ON THE SUBJECT IN THE MESSAGE AREA. THANKS IN ADVANCE FOR YOUR COOPERATION. JOSE ARAUZ, BOCA RATON, FL Msg#: 5514 *PROJECTS* 08/01/88 08:41:08 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: JOSE ARAUZ (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 5499 (TROUBLE IN FINDING THE DOWNLOAD COMMA) There are a few points you must keep in mind. First, when you enter the files area, you get a list of subareas. Keep selecting subareas until you get a list of files. When you get the "Enter Selection" prompt, type in the name of the file you want. The system then asks for a protocol. If you're downloading a text file, any of the protocols will work. If you're downloading an ARC file or a binary file, you *must* use either Xmodem or Ymodem. If you select one of the ASCII formats, you won't get anything. Msg#: 5517 *PROJECTS* 08/01/88 09:06:11 From: JOSE ARAUZ To: KEN DAVIDSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 5514 (TROUBLE IN FINDING THE DOWNLOAD COMMA) Thanks Ken, I will try again keeping in mind your recommendations. Regards. Jose Arauz Msg#: 5501 *PROJECTS* 08/01/88 02:00:33 From: CHUCK GREUZARD To: SYSOP (Rcvd) Subj: AUG BYTE CIR CELL I AM INTRESTED IN THE 8031 PROC. FOR THE AUG BYTE CIR CELL PLEASE TELL ME WHEN THE CIRCUIT BOARD WILL BE AVAILABLE AS I WOULD LIKETO GET ONE THANKS CHUCK Msg#: 5515 *PROJECTS* 08/01/88 08:45:17 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: CHUCK GREUZARD (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 5501 (AUG BYTE CIR CELL) There won't be a circuit board available for that project. That is one project that isn't going to be produced by either Micromint or CCI. You can assume that when there aren't any sources listed at the end of the article, it isn't being produced commercially (as is also the case with the upcoming Mandelbrot Engine). Msg#: 5626 *PROJECTS* 08/02/88 22:19:01 From: DON SWAN To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: CIRCUIT CELLAR AT I AM INTERESTED IN BUILDING THE AT AS SEEN IN SEPT-OCT 87 BYTE. I HAVE ALL THE PARTS , IS THE BARE BOARD AVAILABLE FOR PURCHASE. Msg#: 5653 *PROJECTS* 08/03/88 09:18:26 From: STEVE CIARCIA To: DON SWAN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 5626 (CIRCUIT CELLAR AT) Sorry, Don, but the bare board was never available and the original kit was only available through January if I remember correctly. -- STeve Msg#: 5634 *PROJECTS* 08/03/88 00:46:20 From: SHAUN NICHOLSON To: ALL Subj: DISK CONTROLERS Hey guys - I have an application where I need to determine the interleave on my hard disk drive. Does anyone know how to do this?? Msg#: 5681 *PROJECTS* 08/03/88 22:34:39 From: CROSSTALK - XVI DAVID AKEY To: ALL Subj: PSEUDOSAM CROSS-ASSEMBLER The professional version of PseudoSam 51 is available from KORE inc. 6910 patterson Caledonia, MI 49316 (616) 791-9333 The cost is $35.00 plus shipping and handling($5.00 USA, $10.00 Canada, $15.00 Elsewhere). Included is the macro version of the assembler and a printed manual. Any technical questions should be directed to PseudoCode during our tech help hours( 4:30 to 6:30pm ET monday-friday). Thank you for using our products. Msg#: 5721 *PROJECTS* 08/04/88 17:21:11 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: SMARTSPOOLER OWNERS Subj: VERSION 1.0 -> 1.1 MODS Attention SmartSpooler owners: Version 1.0 of the SmartSpooler EPROM has a bug which may prevent proper operation of your spooler board. If, on power up, the PAUSE LED stays lit while the rest of the LEDs flash (apparently indicating an illegal NMI), then this fix affects you. You can obtain version 1.1 of the SmartSpooler EPROM in one of three ways: 1) Download version 1.1 from the Ciarcia's Circuit Cellar Project files area here, 2) Hand patch three locations in the version 1.0 EPROM using the instructions below, or 3) Call CCI at (203) 875-2751 and arrange to get a replacement EPROM. Hand Patching ============= There are three locations in the version 1.0 EPROM that must be changed to update it to version 1.1 as shown below (all numbers are in hex): 00A5 - was 30, change to 31 05DF - was 00, change to DE 05E0 - was 40, change to 05 Please let me know if you have any questions regarding any of the above information. Ken Davidson (Sysop) Msg#: 5752 *PROJECTS* 08/05/88 02:31:30 From: MARTIN ELMES To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: IMAGEWISE I have just finished wire-wraping an imagewise board from the diagram published in BYTE . However I cannot find any data on the MC145406 RS232 driver, are there +5V & GND. pins on this chip if so which pins ? I would be grateful of any help Martin.... Msg#: 5754 *PROJECTS* 08/05/88 07:57:04 From: BOB PADDOCK To: MARTIN ELMES (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 5752 (IMAGEWISE) Data on the MC145406 can be found in Motorola's Telecommunication book. The power pins are Vdd: Pin 1, Vss: Pin 8, Gnd: Pin 9, and Vcc : Pin 16. Vss = Negitive supply, Vdd = Positive Supply, Vcc = +5, Gnd = Ground. Vss and Vdd can range form +/- 5 to +/- 12 vdc. Msg#: 5767 *PROJECTS* 08/05/88 11:54:52 From: BILL WHITEHEAD To: ALL Subj: MOSART MODEM i'm in need of the programs for the nov 85 article on mosart modems particularaly speech.bin thank you Msg#: 5806 *PROJECTS* 08/06/88 21:41:23 From: EDWARD WOOD To: ALL Subj: ELECTRONIC COMPASS I just heard from the supplier of the KMZ10A magneto-resistive sensor for the electronic compass that has been described in past messages. Unfortunately, the sensor is available only in minimum quantities of 100. The price quoted to me for a lot of 100 sensors is $250 Canadian dollars. This is a bit beyond my resources at the present time. Besides, who would want to buy that many sensors just for prototyping purposes? Is there anyone out there who would be willing to form a group to purchase these sensors and spread the cost over several people? I figure that we would need about 10-15 people who definitely want them for prototyping an electronic compass, to make it worthwhile for everyone. How about you guys that I sent copies of the electronic compass article to? Msg#: 5878 *PROJECTS* 08/08/88 12:27:35 From: BOB PADDOCK To: EDWARD WOOD (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 5806 (ELECTRONIC COMPASS) Put me down for two. Thanks for sending the articals, and checking on the sensors. Msg#: 5889 *PROJECTS* 08/08/88 20:29:51 From: EDWARD WOOD To: BOB PADDOCK (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 5878 (ELECTRONIC COMPASS) I'll see how much response I get before I order anything. I may have a source for sensors that do not require quantity orders. I'll check it out tomorrow Msg#: 5915 *PROJECTS* 08/09/88 10:44:51 From: JEFF BACHIOCHI To: EDWARD WOOD (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 5806 (ELECTRONIC COMPASS) . Edward, . A group purchase sounds good to me. How about a minimum of say $15.00 for 4 or 5 to help cover costs? . jeff Msg#: 5964 *PROJECTS* 08/09/88 23:11:46 From: BRIAN JOSEPH To: JEFF BACHIOCHI (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 5915 (ELECTRONIC COMPASS) I just got the '89 Radio Shack catalog...12V compass is around $40.... Msg#: 5978 *PROJECTS* 08/10/88 07:38:41 From: EDWARD WOOD To: JEFF BACHIOCHI (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 5915 (ELECTRONIC COMPASS) Philips had a broken package of KMZ10B sensors. These sensors are similar to the KMZ10A but have a greater supply voltage maximum and can detect a stronger magnetic field without saturation. They will let me have 20 of them, so I ordered them through a local Philips distributor. Should have them in 4-5 weeks. I'll let you know when they are in. Msg#: 5807 *PROJECTS* 08/06/88 21:46:10 From: EDWARD WOOD To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: PROTOTYPING Steve, what do you, personally, do if you have a design that you are interested in prototyping, but a key component of the design is available only in large quantities? I've run into this problem trying to prototype an electronic compass. The magneto-resistive sensors needed for this design are available in 100 piece minimum orders (ie $250). Do you have a solution to this problem. By the way, the manufacturer is Philips Electronics. Is it just these guys that like large orders or is it industry wide? Msg#: 5838 *PROJECTS* 08/07/88 16:35:37 From: STEVE CIARCIA To: EDWARD WOOD (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 5807 (PROTOTYPING) Often parts are only available in volume. That is why CCI tries to have the hard ones available with experimenter's kits and not just a PC board. When A company will not sell me low volumes for prototyping I usually ak the Micromint purchasing dept to request a few samples for me (When you buy a couple $million in parts the manufacturers tend to listen). That always seem to work for a couple pieces but when you need a dozen or so you then have to contend with minimum orders. At the present time I am looking at a Panasonic IR receiver chip for a future project. I had to go the sample route because their minimum order is 1000 chips. What do I do when I only need a hundred or so? Better be a succeful project if I have to get a thousand. My suggestion is to find some friend who is an engineer in a large company and ask him to request the chip you want as a sample. --Steve Msg#: 5831 *PROJECTS* 08/07/88 12:24:40 From: MATTHEW ZUCKERMAN To: KEN DAVIDSON (Rcvd) Subj: RAM BOARD FOR SB180 What are the possibilities of consructing a RAM board for the SB180 that can connect to the computer through the SCSI interface and be addressed in the same manner as a hard disk -- i.e., it would be formatted as say disk N. I know that X-Bios can be set up to address such a drive. I realize that there would need to be a controller on board such as there is attached to the hard disk drive. Such a device would enable owners of the SB180 to sidestep the memory addressing limitations buxDilt into the SB180. W}iaiting for your reply. Matt Msg#: 5859 *PROJECTS* 08/08/88 09:12:31 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: MATTHEW ZUCKERMAN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 5831 (RAM BOARD FOR SB180) That, plus a RAM-based disk drive that plugs into the floppy cable, have been suggested several times in the past. With the slackening demand for SB180s plus the high price of RAM these days, it is very doubtful we would build anything along those lines. How many people would be willing to pay several thousand dollars for a 10-meg RAM drive when they can buy a 10-meg hard drive for a few hundred? Msg#: 5968 *PROJECTS* 08/09/88 23:49:45 From: MATTHEW ZUCKERMAN To: KEN DAVIDSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 5859 (RAM BOARD FOR SB180) Forget ten meg. How about 1 meg for a couple of hundred? The increase in speed and ease of use would certainly justify such a device. Your thoughts on the subject on the reduced scale I indicate above would be appreciated. BTW, how come a letter addressed to Steve Ciarcia ends up on the board addressed to KD. Not that I have any quarrel with you, but am curious. (Imagine here a smiley face with eyebrows raised). Matt Msg#: 5983 *PROJECTS* 08/10/88 08:22:52 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: MATTHEW ZUCKERMAN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 5968 (RAM BOARD FOR SB180) I haven't priced it out, but I still don't think the prospects of us doing such a board are good. Doing such a board for the SB180 wouldn't yield enough sales for us, and trying to market it for the IBM would likely meet with chuckles in light of 1.2M floppy drives and internal RAM boards that far exceed 1 meg. Mega memory for the SB180 has to be filled by an SB180FX/2-Meg memory board combination. Messages here can be forwarded to a different person and message board by the recipient or the sysop. If your original message was sent to Steve, he must have forwarded it to me. Steve hasn't done much work with the SB180 since the original articles where I work with it almost daily. Msg#: 6013 *PROJECTS* 08/10/88 19:42:06 From: MATTHEW ZUCKERMAN To: KEN DAVIDSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 5983 (RAM BOARD FOR SB180) O.K. So it seems that the earlier purchasers of SB180 got left out in the cold. Shades of Big Blue. What kind of pricing does the SB180FX/ 2-Meg memory board combination bear? and does that obsolete the peripherals I now have, i.e. Seagate 225 HD, 2 360K floppies and the box you put them in? Msg#: 6037 *PROJECTS* 08/11/88 09:06:37 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: MATTHEW ZUCKERMAN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 6013 (RAM BOARD FOR SB180) Oh come on. Are companies not supposed to upgrade a product for fear of offending those who purchased an earlier version? When the SB180 was designed, it was unheard of for a single-board CP/M system to have any more than 64K of RAM. The decision was made that, in order to keep the size of the board small and the cost down, it would have a fixed 256K of RAM plus an expansion header that could accomodate a single I/O expansion board. Who would ever want more than 256K of RAM? The feedback we received during the first year of marketing the SB180 convinced us that people wanted more memory. So one of the SB180FX's added features was 512K on board with special headers to accommodate an expansion board with up to 4 meg. The SB180 was never designed with memory expansion in mind so it isn't possible to add more with a plug-in board. I'm sure that was made clear the day you bought it if you asked about it. The fact that we're unwilling to make a RAM disk board is simply due to the economics of the situation. Building such a board is costly to begin with and it would end up costing much more than comparable magnetic media. We haven't seen anywhere near enough demand for such a board from the SB180 community, so it wouldn't be wise to pour all kinds of money into something likely to lose money. And as I said before there would be little or no demand from the IBM PC community, which is where the board would have to pay for itself. I'm sorry if you feel alienated, but it's not like we led you on about the SB180's capabilities. The SB180 was on the market for well over a year before the SB180FX appeared, so it's not like we suckered a few people to buy the first board over a 3-month period, then came out with something to kill it. The SB180 still sells quite well. The 'FX simply supplements the high end of the market. The SB180FX with full software, 512K RAM, and on-board SCSI costs $599. The SB180FX-2MME board with 256K of memory costs $319. The only differences between the SB180 and the SB180FX are the FX's on-board memory and memory expansion capability, the on-board SCSI, and the three 8-bit parallel ports. The software capabilities are the same and the necessary additional components are the same. (I'm sure there are also RAM surcharges tacked onto the above prices, so check with sales. RAM is *expensive* these days.) Msg#: 6226 *PROJECTS* 08/14/88 18:21:49 From: MATTHEW ZUCKERMAN To: KEN DAVIDSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 6037 (RAM BOARD FOR SB180) You are absolutely right. No one led me on and no one misled me. A commercial company must do what is profitable for it to do and it must certainly respond to the demand of its customers (as well as the lack thereof). I have no quarrel with all of the above. My only problem - and I emphasize that it is mine, not yours - is that in the world of computers I seem ever to be too soon or too late. I am sure that I am not alone in this, given the rapid velocity of change within the field. In any case, no alienation here, only appreciation of the help that you and your staff have given me in the past. Matt Msg#: 5871 *PROJECTS* 08/08/88 11:41:58 From: LARRY YOUNKINS To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: BYTE Steve, It's hard not to be bitter about the demise of Byte magazine. Especially when browsing back through issues in the 70's; the magazine really had a different character. On a brighter note, CC INK is superb!! I look forward to an expanding CC INK and the possibility of more frequent publication. Keep up the good work! Larry Younkins Msg#: 5879 *PROJECTS* 08/08/88 13:07:23 From: RON BOEHM To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: DDT-51 i would like to build the ddt-51. is a circuit diagram availible? if not, when might one be availible.....thanx Msg#: 5906 *PROJECTS* 08/09/88 09:10:03 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: RON BOEHM Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 5879 (DDT-51) The schematic will be published in the next issue of BYTE. We can't send out advanced copies (assuming that was your next question). Msg#: 5941 *PROJECTS* 08/09/88 16:46:53 From: STEVE CIARCIA To: RON BOEHM Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 5879 (DDT-51) Actually, Ken should have tactfully added that "we can not send out advanced copies" of the schematic because of contractual obligations regarding an article that I've sold to BYTE. --Steve Msg#: 5880 *PROJECTS* 08/08/88 13:08:26 From: ARLEN RAASCH To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: LEGAL DIRECT PHONE CONNECTION Hello, Steve: I am looking for a circuit that would allow direct connection to the telephone system legally. The device I have in mind is a unit that would answer the phone call and respond with a digitized voice response telling the caller the information that he requests. I have the ability to handle the project as far as anolog to digital and the memory requirements, etc. The part i would like to get around is the initial FCC legalaties hassel. In a previous BYTE article that you wrote concerning direct connect modems you reffered to a supplier of what I believe is a 'DAA' Data Access Arrangement that is already FCC registered and allows legal connection to the phone line with whatever project you have in mindThe idea behind all of this is I would like to display a working prototype and have it be quite legal, but get around the approx. $2,000.00 cost of getting a design certified by the FCC. Do you have any suggestions?? Also I found your article on the 8031 simulator in 8/88 BYTE quite interesting, are you planning on producing a board for the simulator?? Thanks for writing so many interesting articles in BYTE, Your section is one of the main reasons I read BYTE. -Arlen Raasch- Msg#: 5907 *PROJECTS* 08/09/88 09:29:49 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: ARLEN RAASCH (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 5880 (LEGAL DIRECT PHONE CONNECTION) A DAA is indeed what you want for your device. While the modules can appear to be expensive on the surface, if you're building relatively few units, using DAAs can be much cheaper than getting FCC certification (and is certainly faster). The cheapest and smallest DAA I've seen so far is available from Xecom (makers of the MOSART; Circuit Cellar, November '86 BYTE). The part number is XE0002 and Xecom's phone number is (408) 945-6640. I don't remember the exact price, but it was well below the $95 that Steve paid for the DAAs he used in his article. Msg#: 5942 *PROJECTS* 08/09/88 16:50:12 From: STEVE CIARCIA To: ARLEN RAASCH (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 5880 (LEGAL DIRECT PHONE CONNECTION) Ken's answer is about the best we can offer. Regarding your reasons for reading BYTE, however, I offeer you some news. December '88 is my last article in BYTE. I suggest that you subscribe to Circuit Cellar INK (see main menu) if you want to continue reading such projects and articles in the future. --Steve Msg#: 5965 *PROJECTS* 08/09/88 23:21:15 From: BRIAN JOSEPH To: ARLEN RAASCH (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 5880 (LEGAL DIRECT PHONE CONNECTION) Arlen, I used a Cermetek CH1812 DAA to interface a voice synth, DTMF encoder, DTMF decoder to the phone ne. This part is different that the one that Steve used in ox{Ge of his projects. I think he used CH1810, which is already FCC certified a has extra components to make sure that the signal is kept within FCC specs. From my loca{ distributer, the 1810 was $100, while the 1812 was about $50. Although the 1812 is not FCC certified, it will still protect the phone line from you and you from the phone line. Also, if you were to want to get FCC certification, the 1812 would make life easier for you. Brian. Msg#: 6092 *PROJECTS* 08/11/88 22:48:17 From: ARLEN RAASCH To: KEN DAVIDSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 5907 (LEGAL DIRECT PHONE CONNECTION) Thanks for the info Ken, I will check into it.. -Arlen Raasch- Msg#: 6093 *PROJECTS* 08/11/88 22:50:44 From: ARLEN RAASCH To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 5942 (LEGAL DIRECT PHONE CONNECTION) Thanks for the reply Steve, and with the BCC-52 I just recieved, it included a Circiut Celler INK, and I do intend to subscribe. Thanks Again - Arlen Raasch Msg#: 5895 *PROJECTS* 08/08/88 22:53:44 From: TOM MIGNONE To: ALL Subj: HAL For those of you who haven't gotten to the test phase of building your HAL there seems to be an error in the calculation of the reference voltages for the A/D. The reference voltages are listed as 1.75 and 3.25 volts but if the statement that these voltages are to be +/-1.25 volts about 1/2 the supply then the 3.25v should be 4.25V. In my kit ( which worked first time !) the ltages are actually 2V and 4V because my zener only seems to drop 2.5 volts, but I am assuming this will not be a problem since it is still symmetrical about 1/2 the supply (3V). Not a big dealit may cause you to look for a problem that isn't there (as I did). I hope to combine HAL with Radio-Electr's radiation monitor to see experiment with mind control of the radiation events. I have heard of experiments along this line but have no actual references. The idea is to use ESP or whatever to change the statistically random decay events and instead have them occur at or near regular intervals. Pretty weird if it works... Tom M. Msg#: 5896 *PROJECTS* 08/08/88 22:56:14 From: TOM MIGNONE To: TOM MIGNONE (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 5895 (HAL) I meant my zener only dropped 2.0 volts, not 2.5 as I said above. Tom M. Msg#: 5916 *PROJECTS* 08/09/88 10:50:14 From: JEFF BACHIOCHI To: TOM MIGNONE Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 5895 (HAL) . Tom, . Thanks for that clarification and glad to hear about your success in building HAL! . jeff Msg#: 5979 *PROJECTS* 08/10/88 07:42:34 From: EDWARD WOOD To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: PROTOTYPING Thanks for the advice on obtaining parts. I talked to a salesman at Philips about the magnetic field sensor and I found out that they have a broken package of similar sensors. They will let me order 20 of them. I suppose 20 is better than 100. Msg#: 6001 *PROJECTS* 08/10/88 14:00:33 From: NEIL CHERRY To: DAVID GILMER (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 62 (INK) I love the magazine I've been looking for a magazine which handles the hardware and sets the software with it. I also appreciate the fact that though th designs are set up for use with IBM (I Burn Money - the make of the worlds slowest Clones :) they can be set up for use with other machines. I don't own an IBM but I have 17 other computers. Keep up the various projects even the defense systems. Thanks NJC Msg#: 6002 *PROJECTS* 08/10/88 14:06:43 From: NEIL CHERRY To: DALE NASSAR (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 68 (INK) WHAT other magazines ??? :> Msg#: 6012 *PROJECTS* 08/10/88 19:28:59 From: ALEXANDER SCHNEIDER To: ALL Subj: MICROCONTROLLER RC Have any of the relevant people here considered doing something in the way of a microprocessor or microcontroller run Radio Control setup. Probably just a transmitter would be the minimum to adjust funcitons and so on. Alex Msg#: 6033 *PROJECTS* 08/11/88 08:42:09 From: BRIAN JOSEPH To: ALEXANDER SCHNEIDER (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 6012 (MICROCONTROLLER RC) Alexander, I have an article from Motorola entilted "Hi-Tech Encoder". It was reprinted from R/C Modeler magazine. I can't seem v{o find the date.... Anyway, it uses a M68HC11 MPU. If you'd like a copy, let me know. Otherwise, I think Motorola's # on the inf{ is AR264/D. Brian. Msg#: 6094 *PROJECTS* 08/11/88 22:54:55 From: ALEXANDER SCHNEIDER To: BRIAN JOSEPH (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 6033 (MICROCONTROLLER RC) Oh, I would love to have that article, but only if it isn't any trouble for you. Alex Msg#: 6178 *PROJECTS* 08/13/88 00:17:17 From: BRIAN JOSEPH To: ALEXANDER SCHNEIDER (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 6094 (MICROCONTROLLER RC) No problem at all...just leave me your address and I'll get it to you. { { Msg#: 6198 *PROJECTS* 08/13/88 15:04:57 From: ALEXANDER SCHNEIDER To: BRIAN JOSEPH (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 6178 (MICROCONTROLLER RC) Thank you very much. I am at 6319 Massachusetts Avenue, Bethesda,MD, 20816. Again, thanks. Alex Msg#: 6378 *PROJECTS* 08/17/88 19:27:32 From: BRIAN JOSEPH To: ALEXANDER SCHNEIDER (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 6198 (MICROCONTROLLER RC) I'm going out of town this weekend so I'll try to get it to you monday. Msg#: 6818 *PROJECTS* 08/27/88 10:51:32 From: ALEXANDER SCHNEIDER To: BRIAN JOSEPH (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 6378 (MICROCONTROLLER RC) Thank you, I received it yesterday and found it very informative. Alex Msg#: 6129 *PROJECTS* 08/12/88 13:50:38 From: NEIL CHERRY To: JIM SCORSE Subj: SMART WATCH Where can you get a smart watch for $30. I need about 3 or four and I don`t have much money to spend. Thanks NJC Msg#: 6130 *PROJECTS* 08/12/88 13:55:20 From: NEIL CHERRY To: CHARLES WARD (Rcvd) Subj: MONITORING If you complete your project on the monitoring half leave the information here. I'm planning on turning an Atari 400 into a green house monitoring system. I have a bunch of systems (17 total) to use for this. Thanks, NJC Msg#: 6131 *PROJECTS* 08/12/88 14:02:15 From: NEIL CHERRY To: JOHN APPLEYARD (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 3597 (X-10 TRANSMITTER) I've had ideas on such a unit for a long time. Like future use of inteligent appliances. For what reason I haven't figured that out yet but there must be some uses for it. any ideas for future articles? NJC Msg#: 6132 *PROJECTS* 08/12/88 14:13:07 From: NEIL CHERRY To: BRIAN JOSEPH (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 3686 (BYTE BITES THE DUST) NOOOOOOOOO don`t write BYTE instead subcribe to CCI !!!!! And while I'm at it I've got a complaint on CCI: 1) The magazine is too short, I figure about 400 more pages might be nice. 2) The magazine doesn't come out often enough, I figure about once a week would be a good start. But really I love the magazine, and I'm working on a article for CCI.. How about as a start the decoding and encoding of Motorola S1, Intel Hex, Mostek hex, and Tektronics hex. I can include C source for doing it also. NJC Reply has been deleted Msg#: 6158 *PROJECTS* 08/12/88 21:14:11 From: PHIL CHADWICK To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: SB180 MASS STORAGE There so far are few cheap ways of mass storage. So far compact disk looks like it will be out of sight on cost. There has appeared one new system using VCR cassettes for backup. One is on the market by Central Computer Products but it can be considered expensive and limited. Besides it requires a custom card, custom program and vcr and delivers 160 mbytes in 2 hrs approx. Your articles about controllers made me think that there must be a simpler way and looks like a good project for future. Why not serial I/P high speed with on board dat and controller board or box to add to simple VCR, capable of 2, 3, 6 hours recording of data, controlable via modem program on any computer with RS232 port. Any interest for future?? Msg#: 6161 *PROJECTS* 08/12/88 21:33:56 From: ALEXANDER SCHNEIDER To: PHIL CHADWICK (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 6158 (SB180 MASS STORAGE) What about the relatively recent practice on workstations and minis to use virtually regular 8mm video tapes to hold 2.3 gigabytes? I'm not sure of the speed thought, but the capacity certainly makes it worth something. Alex Msg#: 6192 *PROJECTS* 08/13/88 08:37:06 From: JAMES GREEN To: KEN DAVIDSON (Rcvd) Subj: SMART SPOOLER August 13, 1988 Circuit Cellar, INC. 4 Park St. Suite 12 Vernon, Ct. 06066 Dear Steve, I have just completed construction of the SmartSpooler Print Buffer. I was totally impressed with the quality of the Kit and the Instructions, and enjoyed putting it together. I had been wanting to do something like this since subscribing to BYTE in 1980, and was glad to get a chance on this kit. However, as you probably suspect, I have a few problems, and I hope someone can help me. The indications I get are as follows: ****** Smart Spooler Indications ****** 1. When Turned on in "Normal" mode (DIP = 00000000) for parallel operation, all lights come on, then the pause light comes on, all others blink. Multiple resets have no effect. Any combination of DIP switches produces the same effect, except test (DIP = 11111111) or Host (DIP = 11100000). 2. When in Test mode (DIP = 11111111), all tests function normally. Memory test ran for an hour with no discrepancies. Par In, Out, and SER out work as advertised. 3. When in program / host mode, (DIP = 11100000), the leds blink on, then off. When attempting to load the configuration file, all lights come on after the smartspooler receives the first carriage return, then remain on until the reset button is pressed. I have attempted to configure by typing directly from con to prt, by typing a config file to the prn, which looks like: 0000000! and by running a Turbo_Pascal Program that does the same thing. The lights stay on until I give up and reset the board. HOWEVER, after attempting to load the file, setting the DIP switches for PAR_PAR operation, and pressing reset, the buffer begins to operate normally!!! This works every time so far, whether I have just turned it on or it has been operating for an hour. The buffer works flawlessly, all switches, etc, including resets, until it is turned OFF, at which time you have to go through the process of trying to load a configuration file again. I have visually inspected the board, and there are no flaws visible (to me, anyway). The thing that throws me is that the fault clears after attempting to load a configuration file, and the test mode works. Do you have any ideas what the problem could be? It's a real pain to have to monkey around with the DIP switches every time I turn the thing on. The thing that bothers me is the indication of an NMI/ (Pause light), but proper operation in other modes and normal operation after all the machinations mentioned above. I hope you have an idea that will save me the trouble of shipping it to you for repairs! Thank you for your time. Jim Green 142 Lexington Street Middletown, RI 02840 (401) 846-6548 Msg#: 6282 *PROJECTS* 08/16/88 09:47:24 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: JAMES GREEN Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 6192 (SMART SPOOLER) Take another look at the bulletins when you call next time. We found a bug in the SmartSpooler EPROM that is causing the NMI errors. You can either download a new EPROM from here, patch your existing EPROM according to instructions found in the message cited in the bulletin, or you can call CCI to arrange for a new EPROM. The host mode problems sound more like extra linefeeds after the carriage returns. When you copy a file or the console to the printer port, even though you're only sending a carriage return, MessDOS does you a favor and sticks in an extra linefeed. That messes up the spooler. From Pascal, be sure you're using WRITE statements and not WRITELNs to send the carriage returns. If you have several consecutive WRITELNs, you're again getting extra linefeeds. Msg#: 6341 *PROJECTS* 08/17/88 01:07:44 From: EVAN HOLLANDER To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: INK ARTICLE Steve, I wanted to find out if you had seen the article that I mailed in about adding local dimming to X-10 modules. Any chance it might make it into INK? Also how about this for a suggestion for the Sonar Scanner: Attach one to a rotating impact type sprinkler system and you could create an automated system for watering your lawn that people and animals could traverse without getting wet. Everytime the sensor saw something in its view it could shut down the water supply ... I guess you could say this idea isn't quite ALL wet .... Thanks , Evan Hollander Msg#: 6351 *PROJECTS* 08/17/88 09:34:18 From: STEVE CIARCIA To: EVAN HOLLANDER (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 6341 (INK ARTICLE) Yes, Evan, We have the X-10 dimmer mod. I gave it to Curt and he will decide whether t o use it. Considering it is not a computer application, it may have to wait for a more general treatment of X-10 stuff. In any case, you should discuss it with Curt. Finally, I suppose that the sonar scanner could be used for lawn sprinkling. Polaroid makes an all temperature, all weather version of the same transducer if you plan on using this thing outdoors. --Steve Msg#: 6343 *PROJECTS* 08/17/88 02:59:33 From: JACK JACKSON To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: LIS'NER 1000 Steve,where can I obtain the software for the Lis'ner 1000? If you do not fool with it now who does?Any help would be appreciated.By the way does Micromint still have the hardware? Msg#: 6349 *PROJECTS* 08/17/88 08:45:10 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: JACK JACKSON Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 6343 (LIS'NER 1000) I'll let Steve answer the rest of your questions, but I just want to interject that the Lis'ner software cannot be posted on the BBS. Not because of legalities, but logistics. We have no easy way to transfer the software from Apple ][ disks to IBM PC disks. We also don't have any communication software for the Apple that supports binary transfers, so I can't just upload the code to the board. Sorry about that. Msg#: 6352 *PROJECTS* 08/17/88 09:39:52 From: STEVE CIARCIA To: JACK JACKSON Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 6343 (LIS'NER 1000) The lisner software was available for many years to builders while I had the rights to distribute it. Now, it is only available included with the Lisner kit from CCI (203-875-2751). Our free offers generally hold for 12-18 months after publication. Lisner was Nov '84 and we I know we gave free software for at least 3 years. Sorry. --Steve Msg#: 6401 *PROJECTS* 08/18/88 03:09:13 From: WOLF-DIETRICH WEBER To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: SPEECH SYNTHESIS I am interested in building a low-cost, low-power (battery operated) speech generation system. I have some experience with the Intel 8031 and am thinking of combining it with the SSI263 used in Byte March 1984. My question is, is there a newer, better, cheaper speech generation chip out now, and if not, is the info concerning hardware and software sources still correct? Thanks for your help, Wolf. Msg#: 6427 *PROJECTS* 08/18/88 11:34:02 From: STEVE CIARCIA To: WOLF-DIETRICH WEBER (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 6401 (SPEECH SYNTHESIS) To my knowledge, there are no newer phoneme-based synthesizer chips than the SSI-263. Most new synthesizer designs are really digitizers using ADPCM technology and lots of "cheap" memory. We have a audio digitizer project in the works for CC INK. --Steve Msg#: 6434 *PROJECTS* 08/18/88 12:36:19 From: DALE NASSAR To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: FFT Steve, Just wanted to say thanks for recommending "The FFT.." in the July "88 Circuit Cellar. It really cleared up some fuzzyness I had on convolution and correlation. An EXCELLENT book. --Dale Msg#: 6446 *PROJECTS* 08/18/88 21:38:15 From: TERRY ROSE To: ALL Subj: BCC180 After reading about the BCC180 I couldn't resist getting on for use on a project I've been designing/building for work. My intended use is to use the BCC180 as a master controller for 4 8052 motion control cards built by Baldor Motion Products. The overall project is an 8 axis automated lathe for cutting motor end plates. Comunication from the BCC180 to the Baldor cards will be via RS232. Any comments and/or help would be appreciated. I hope to be able to write an article about the project for CCI. Company officials have given approval for the before-mentioned article. Understandi ng upper managment is a blessing................ { Terry:-) Msg#: 6463 *PROJECTS* 08/19/88 10:05:58 From: STEVE CIARCIA To: RICHARD ANDREWS (Rcvd) Subj: TMS9918 If you still decide you want a TMS9918, I have a bunch of them (they are about $15 each). They are the newest version that uses 16K x4 RAMs (total 3 chips for the whole video interface). See my HCS article where I used this specific configuration. --Steve Msg#: 6666 *PROJECTS* 08/24/88 16:55:32 From: RICHARD ANDREWS To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 6463 (TMS9918) . Thanks anyway but I can get all I want from work. Msg#: 6472 *PROJECTS* 08/19/88 14:52:32 From: CROSSTALK - XVI TOM TICHNEL To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: DEBUG31 thanks for the access to the 8031/8051 information. i have been trying for some time to get this kind of info. i am trying to teach myself how to write code for z80, 68000, and the 8051. with the use of this debugger i should be well on my way thanks. tom tichnel. black box corp. pittsburgh,pa lab tech. Msg#: 6490 *PROJECTS* 08/20/88 04:01:50 From: WOLF-DIETRICH WEBER To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: TEXT-TO-SPEECH Steve - Thanks for your prompt reply to my previous message concerning the SSI263 featured in BYTE March 1984. Now I have a new problem. I called up the folks at Micromint and they said that even though they still sell the chip and software, they are currently out of the chips. While I can get the chip from the distributor, Micromint will not sell me the software alone. So now I am wondering where I can get hold of a copy of the text-to-speech algorithm that you mentioned in the original article. Is there a copy on the bulletin board ? Thanks for your help, Wolf-Dietrich Weber. Msg#: 6534 *PROJECTS* 08/22/88 08:44:18 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: WOLF-DIETRICH WEBER (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 6490 (TEXT-TO-SPEECH) I just want to add here that, just as in the case with the Apple Lis'ner software, it's not logistically feasible for me to post Apple SweetTalker software on the BBS. I'm pretty sure that since Sweet Microsystems owns the text-to-speech code, it wouldn't be possible to post it in any case. Msg#: 6541 *PROJECTS* 08/22/88 10:13:39 From: STEVE CIARCIA To: WOLF-DIETRICH WEBER (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 6490 (TEXT-TO-SPEECH) As I said previously, Micromint owns the product now and Sweet Micro Systems licensed it to them. While I can twist Micromint's arm if I want, they don't sell it as an individual product. Sorry. --Steve Msg#: 6545 *PROJECTS* 08/22/88 10:33:03 From: BOB ARMSTRONG To: WOLF-DIETRICH WEBER (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 6490 (TEXT-TO-SPEECH) I'm looking forward to an article on text-to-speech synthesis as I have been working with several blind computer hobbyists who need such a system. As with most projects, for me the hardware is not a problem, but the software presents a real challenge. I just wanted to let you know that others are also interested.... Bob Msg#: 6493 *PROJECTS* 08/20/88 07:08:13 From: MARK BURNETTE To: ALL Subj: 8031 I'm looking for books or articles concerning the 8051 family. I have the Intel Embedded Controller Databook and the CIrcuit Cellar articles, as well as a book by William Houghton titled "Mastering Digital Device Control." The latter contains an introductory level discussion of the 8031, but what I'd really like is a thorough assembly language and architecture tutorial for the chip with lots of example code. I've checked "Books in Print" (though not exhaustively) and found nothing. I'd really appreciate any suggestions. Msg#: 6946 *PROJECTS* 08/30/88 12:19:23 From: BOB PADDOCK To: MARK BURNETTE (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 6493 (8031) THE book on learning how to program the 8051/8031 is "The 8051 Programming, Interfaceing, Applications. 81 Hands-On Experiments with Intel's SDK-51" [Hows that for a short tittle?] by Howard Boyet and Ron Katz of MTI Microprocessor Tranining Inc. 14 East 8th Street, NYC 10003 (212) 473-4947. For a while, don't know if you still can, you could get this book from Intel's Litt. department. Try them at (800) 548-4725. While the example code in the book is written for the Intel SKD-51 system, it still gives exalent and will commented examples that can be applied to any 8051/8031 system. Msg#: 6504 *PROJECTS* 08/21/88 03:28:38 From: MIKE GREENHILL To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: I'VE GOT IT The magazine that is. It arrived a couple of days ago.A_?0ES=%"!v=geB~?'1D~ m3Hv;jz+FrZ(en[Wg|j .mBjV@n#{nd no , it wasn't ordered 3 days prior to my last message. mike Msg#: 6514 *PROJECTS* 08/21/88 20:30:42 From: JOHN SULLIVAN To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: PROJECTS I have been following your articles since a Joystick article in BYTE in 79 I am sorry you are leaving BYTE. However, I have subscribed to CC_INK and have enjoyed every page. I am interested in the DDT-1 article and have some projects in mind for the 8031 microcontroller. Looking forward to future articles. Msg#: 6572 *PROJECTS* 08/22/88 20:57:44 From: TERRY ROSE To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: BCC180 Help!!!! Can you refer me to a good book on assembly language programming for the 64180? I need to write a device driver for the BCC180 to allow me to use the printer serial port as a RS-232 communication port to several other micro-controller cards. Or perhaps you know of someone who has already done so and would share a copy of the code? I would gladly pay, money, credits in the manual or excessive praise and undying gratitude..... ...................P.S. I have done assembly language programming and am willing to attempt it myself, if I must.......TERRY :-) ......... P.S.S. I spoke with someone at Micromint about this, unfortunately no one there had any advice other than to write a device driver myself...Sigh..... .........TERRY:-) Msg#: 6595 *PROJECTS* 08/23/88 08:56:03 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: TERRY ROSE (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 6572 (BCC180) The only reference I know of that specifically covers the HD64180 is Hitachi's data book on the chip. While all the information is in it, it can be rather cryptic in places. Any book which covers Z80 assembly programming can be used since the HD64180 is nearly identical to a Z80 from a software standpoint. I'm going to try my hand at adding the device drivers your looking for today. Assuming I don't run into problems or get sidetracked with something more pressing, I'll get you a copy. Msg#: 6608 *PROJECTS* 08/23/88 13:00:50 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: TERRY ROSE (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 6572 (BCC180) If you'll leave me your address or a FAX number, I'll get you a copy of a short supplement I just put together that has all the details you need. I'd rather not try to post a copy on the BBS; it's much better in print. Msg#: 6621 *PROJECTS* 08/23/88 20:47:00 From: TERRY ROSE To: KEN DAVIDSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 6595 (BCC180) Thanks a lot for the help. I really appreciate it. Do you know of a convenient source for Hitachi's data sheets on the 64180? I never could stand not having the maximum amount of information on anything I have to use or deal with. By the way do you know of a source for a very inexpensive logic analyzer? Kit form would be acceptable and I would like it to have 32 channels. Wish I could afford an HP....... TERRY :-) Msg#: 6646 *PROJECTS* 08/24/88 08:55:14 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: TERRY ROSE (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 6621 (BCC180) You can get the Hitachi data book from Micromint. Call the sales line at (800) 635-3355 to get pricing. I don't have a good source for a cheap logic analyzer. We use a Tektronix analyzer here that was far from cheap. Msg#: 6659 *PROJECTS* 08/24/88 10:16:32 From: STEVE CIARCIA To: TERRY ROSE (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 6621 (BCC180) I checked with John in Micromint sales and Micromint sells the Hitachi 64180 data manual for $12.50 plus $3 P&H, if that helps. --Steve Msg#: 6743 *PROJECTS* 08/25/88 20:05:31 From: TERRY ROSE To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 6659 (BCC180) Thanks I appreciate the footwork! Perhaps somebody will do a logic analyzer for Circuit Cellar Ink. It wouldn't be a glitzy project but for my money it would be more use than a giga-watt laser buglar zapper :-). Then again I've never been robbed...................Terry :-) Msg#: 6580 *PROJECTS* 08/23/88 00:36:40 From: DAVID WILLIAMS To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: 8031 Steve, I've been waiting a long time for your articles on homebrew microcontroller development systems. I've fooled around with 6802, Z80 and the like, but this is worth waiting for. And INK will allow me to let my subscription to Byte lapse (your stuff is all I bought it for anyway). Msg#: 6599 *PROJECTS* 08/23/88 09:10:06 From: STEVE CIARCIA To: DAVID WILLIAMS (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 6580 (8031) Thanks for joining us at CC INK. --Steve Msg#: 6582 *PROJECTS* 08/23/88 01:12:04 From: WOLF-DIETRICH WEBER To: BOB ARMSTRONG (Rcvd) Subj: TEXT-TO-SPEECH Bob - I am currently trying to bring the various pieces of software and hardware together to build a small, stand-alone text-to-speech system. If you are interested I can keep you posted if I come up with something that works. Cheers, Wolf-Dietrich. Msg#: 6638 *PROJECTS* 08/24/88 02:55:52 From: CHRIS DAVIS To: WOLF-DIETRICH WEBER (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 6582 (TEXT-TO-SPEECH) I tried the radio shack text-to-speech chip set last year using the schematic on their data sheet and it works pretty well. Also it is inexpensive and it includes an rs232 interface for most common baud rates etc. The data sheet shows how to provide a parallel interface if that's what you guys are looking for. I would be pleased to give more information if anyone's interested. Come to think of it, I don't use my text-to-speech gizmo much anymore. Anyone want it for cost? Lemme know @ this BBS. I'm in Westlake Village, CA, by the way. -- chris Msg#: 6722 *PROJECTS* 08/25/88 16:00:20 From: BOB ARMSTRONG To: WOLF-DIETRICH WEBER (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 6582 (TEXT-TO-SPEECH) Yes, I am interested. I have been looking at the Radio Shack chip set, but do not know how well it works. It requires very little support circuitry, but again, the performance may be lacking. Please keep me informed. Thanks! Bob Msg#: 6723 *PROJECTS* 08/25/88 16:02:08 From: BOB ARMSTRONG To: CHRIS DAVIS (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 6638 (TEXT-TO-SPEECH) Hmmmm. Want to trade for it? I have a lot of "junk" (read that as extremely valuable computer equipment (grin)), collecting dust. Bob Msg#: 7000 *PROJECTS* 08/31/88 14:36:28 From: BOB ARMSTRONG To: CHRIS DAVIS (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 6805 (TEXT-TO-SPEECH) DOS 3.3. Hard drives (small 10-20 or so meg). Floppies. IBM CGA (RGB) monitor with power sully problem (my fault). Programmed or blank EPROMS. AR-22 rotor. 63 w power supplies (PC). ETC, etc, etc. Anything sound interesting? I have a lot more software, but all of it is MS-DOS PC type stuff. Msg#: 6696 *PROJECTS* 08/25/88 08:33:26 From: BOB STOUT To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: ALTERNATE Steve, I'll just mention this for what it is worth. For anyone trying to do some low budget 8031/51 developement there are a couple inexpensive products available that will let you write 8031/51 applications using a Commodore 64. The two products are: 1.) 8051 Family assembler/disassembler (symbolic) program that is cartridge based. You use the C-64 editor to write the source and then do a sys57000 to assemble. It is VERY fast and pretty powerful except that it has no macro capability. Features Memory dump, transfer, disassembly, relocatability, and more. Available for $49.95 from Hughes Associates in Belleville, Michigan. A real deal!! 2.) Promenade eprom burner from Jason-Ranheim ($99.00). This is a quality eprom burner that plugs into a Commodore 64/128 expansion port and will program all of the popular eproms. Very simple, another real deal. I have used both products extensively for quite some time and for the $150.00 or so that you spend, you can turn that dusty old C-64 into a useful developement tool. I now do all my development on a PC but the Commy still gets a workout for those fast and dirty projects. I can give you more info if you or your readers might be interested. Bob Stout Msg#: 6740 *PROJECTS* 08/25/88 18:40:16 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: ALL USERS Subj: DDT-51 UPDATE . Assorted DDT-51 follow-up information . ===================================== BBS Files --------- . Please note that files related to the DDT-51 project, including DEBUG31.ARC and KERNEL.ARC, were created specifically for the DDT-51 project, are copyrighted 1988 by Circuit Cellar Inc., and may NOT be reposted in any form on another BBS or information service without express permission from Circuit Cellar Inc. The only way for us to continue to provide Circuit Cellar projects of the highest possible quality is to have complete control over the channels of distribution of information related to the projects. We want to be sure that you, the Circuit Cellar reader, have the latest and most up-to-date versions of files and information available. We appreciate your cooperation in this matter. Future DDT-51 plans ------------------- . We know that the DDT-51 project now appearing in BYTE was a good one, but we were not prepared for the flood of Circuit Cellar INK subscriptions, letters, and telephone calls that have resulted. It seems like everyone wants more information about the low-cost 8051 development system! . If you want more info on the DDT-51, you'll need to read Circuit Cellar INK in the coming months. Starting in the November/December issue, we'll have articles on the innermost secrets of the system, updated schematics, additional software for increased functionality, and continuing reports on availability of components. With the DDT-51, as with other projects and systems, Circuit Cellar INK continues its tradition of bringing the best in practical design information to the most important people in the microcomputer industry ... our readers. Bug reports ----------- . BYTE, September 1988, page 306, Figure 4a -- Locate the tan box . containing the DB-25 connector labeled "To IBM." The wire . going to pin 18 of the DB-25 connector should instead go to . pin 17. Pin 18 should be connected to ground. . BYTE, September 1988, page 309, Figure 4b -- The signals on IC2 . and IC3 labeled AHI0-AHI7 should be labeled AHI8-AHI15 to . match similar labels on connector S1. In other words, . change AHI0 to AHI8, AHI1 to AHI9, and so on. . BYTE, September 1988, page 308, Figure 4b -- Capacitor C1 in . the EPROM programmer circuit may need to be increased in . value to reduce noise in the circuit depending on the . techniques used to construct the circuit. . BYTE, September 1988, page 303, Photo 1 -- The photograph of . the DDT-51 board shows two white switches, while the . schematic found in the article shows just one switch. The . extra switch on the prototype is used to turn off +5V to the . Vpp and Vcc pins of the EPROM shown in figure 4b on page . 308. By turning off +5V to Vpp (IC7-1) and Vcc (IC7-28), . it's possible to safely remove the EPROM from the socket . without turning off power to the entire DDT-51 board. Msg#: 6760 *PROJECTS* 08/26/88 02:56:27 From: MARC DIAZ To: KEN DAVIDSON (Rcvd) Subj: DDT-51 Are you guys planning on laying out PC board for the DDT-51 Msg#: 6768 *PROJECTS* 08/26/88 08:13:58 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: MARC DIAZ (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 6760 (DDT-51) At the moment there are no plans, but anythiung is possible (there have been enough requests to possibly warrant it). As I said in the update message I just posted, there will be more DDT-51 information in coming issues of INK, including the availability of a PC board if one is laid out. Msg#: 6840 *PROJECTS* 08/28/88 09:22:19 From: MARK LAMPKIN To: KEN DAVIDSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 3513 (8749'S....) This reply might get me booted off of this BBS,however,has anyone else looked into the Motorola 68705 family of single chip MCU's?I have used them extensively in designs for industrial control systems and also to the extent of my own home control and LAN.The neat thig about them is,if you can burn a 2716 or 32 prom for the master,a small amount of external circuitry added to the micro and it will program and verify itself.They are window equipped and can be erased.In single quantity,like from "jameco",you can purchase them in the $9-$15 range.The different config's go from just digital I/O to internal A/D converters. Msg#: 6864 *PROJECTS* 08/29/88 08:51:47 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: MARK LAMPKIN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 6840 (8749'S....) Why would bringing up a 68xxx processor get you booted off the system? We encourage discussions about new or rarely brought up topics, especially Motorola processors. Have you done any neat projects with one of them that could warrant an INK article? Mark Voorhees is currently basing a project around a 68010 and we'd love to see more 68xxx projects. Msg#: 6925 *PROJECTS* 08/30/88 08:13:37 From: MARK LAMPKIN To: KEN DAVIDSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 6864 (8749'S....) I have applied the 68705P3 in a number of industrial applications in the past.Among the projects are a Remote Terminal Unit,(RTU),a single loop PID controller and a device for the automotive machine user to help with tool change monitoring.Presently,I have three 68705P3's,two 68705R3's and four 68705U3's in my home doing everything from home security monitoring to cycling the watering system for my garden.I would be happy to share any or all of my application hardware/software with anyone interested in the Motorola family of these products.....My remarks were rather tongue in cheek,as it seems the primary CPU's are the MCS-51 family......Mark Msg#: 6937 *PROJECTS* 08/30/88 09:05:33 From: CURT FRANKLIN To: MARK LAMPKIN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 6925 (8749'S....) Mark, I think that the readers of Circuit Cellar INK might be very interested in some of your applications. Why don't you drop me a line and we'll talk about getting some Motorola apps into print. . Thanks, . Curt Franklin . Editor in chief . Circuit Cellar INK Msg#: 6959 *PROJECTS* 08/30/88 17:26:11 From: MARK LAMPKIN To: CURT FRANKLIN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 6937 (8749'S....) Curt,I think I'd love to write some articles for the magazine ...How do I do it?I'll drop a line to you care of the magazine??? ........Mark Msg#: 6979 *PROJECTS* 08/31/88 09:00:56 From: CURT FRANKLIN To: MARK LAMPKIN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 6959 (8749'S....) Mark - You can write me at: . Circuit Cellar INK . 4 Park St. . Vernon, CT 06066 . Or send me private mail here. It's probably best to start with a proposal or outline, unless you have already written the article. For more information on writing for INK, see the section on writing for INK in the Information on INK section of this BBS. . I'll look forward to hearing from you. . Curt Franklin Msg#: 7002 *PROJECTS* 08/31/88 14:41:46 From: BOB ARMSTRONG To: MARK LAMPKIN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 6925 (8749'S....) Hey. I guarantee interest! Msg#: 6841 *PROJECTS* 08/28/88 10:55:11 From: TOM COOK To: SYSOP (Rcvd) Subj: HAL4 HELLO, I'VE READ THE TWO ARTILES ON HAL. I'M GOING TO ORDER ONE THIS MONTH. NEXT WEEK HOPEFULY. I WOULD LIKE TO CONTACT ANYONE ELSE WHO IS INTERSTED IN THIS PROJECT. TOM COOK PO BOX 2548, RESTON VA 22090. THIS IS NOT A PRIVITE MESSAGE, PLEASE POST FOR GENERAL READING. THANK YOU, TOM COOK Msg#: 7174 *PROJECTS* 09/06/88 00:51:25 From: ROGER WETHERBEE To: TOM COOK Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 6841 (HAL4) I started assembling the HAL 4 today. So far it's going together without difficulty (we'll see if I still feel that way when the time comes to test it!). I've got to hand it to Steve, it's a nifty design, both hardware and software. Msg#: 7560 *PROJECTS* 09/18/88 17:57:58 From: ROD JONES To: ROGER WETHERBEE Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 7174 (HAL4) I ASSEMBLED A HAL4 ABOUT A MONTH AGO. IT SEEMS TO WORK OK. I WANT TO REDO THE CODE SO I CAN GET SOME KIND OF AUDITORY FEEDBACK. IT ISN'T MUCH USE IF YOU CANNOT OPEN YOUR EYES TO SEE WHATS GOING ON. IF ANYONE HAS ALREADY DONE THIS LET ME KNOW. THANKS Msg#: 6905 *PROJECTS* 08/29/88 20:33:30 From: NICK LUZESKI To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: DDT-51 Steve, I have recently completed construction of the DDT-51 system. I am now in the process of debugging the project and have found several errors in the schematic. 1. The *OE pin on the 2764/6264 (IC 7) should be connected to *PS instead of *RD. The 8031 uses *PS to access program memory and the kernel code would not load to program memory until I made this change. 2. The *RAM CS/ADDR HIT and *RAM READ signals are reversed on IC 1 (the 6116). DEBUG31 would not load the major portion of the kernel until this was fixed. The 8031 would not start until I added logic to allow the 8031 data buss (D0 thru D7) to see the XDATA buss during the ALE cycle in order to latch the low order address for IC 7. This was accomplished by using a 4 input NAND gate and the signals XALE (tru e), *CTLS TO P,}@nXd}X6! 7V$Z9yte.@@ Sorry line noise *CTLS TO (false), *CTLS FROM (true) and *EPROMCS (true) to enable *DATA FROM during the ALE cycle. The proc now starts and runs the kernel but will not stop. More later as debugging continues. Nick Luzeski (215)647-8355 or (215)648-3446 288 Vincent Rd. Paoli PA 19301 Msg#: 7035 *PROJECTS* 09/01/88 13:15:31 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: NICK LUZESKI (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 6905 (DDT-51) Thank you for your bug report. The first two have been confirmed and the DDT51UPD.TXT file has been updated to reflect them. Your other problems are addressed in the file called DDT51NOT.TXT, so you might want to take a look at it. Msg#: 6912 *PROJECTS* 08/29/88 22:43:28 From: CRAIG DEWICK To: ALL Subj: GT180 KEYBOARD ADAPTOR Hi all. I am ringing from Australia, so i will be quick... I recently purchased a SB180FX and a GT180 from Micromint, and have found them to be wonderful!!!! But, i would like to know if there is an easy way to get the BIOS to use the PC keyboard adaptor on the GT180 instead of the serial port, and also redirect its output to the graphics screen instead of the serial port. I would like to be able to virtually turn the graphics screen into the main console as well, so i don't have to carry a terminal around with me as well when i transport my system... You see, over here, the computer industry is VERY dull. Everything is PC-this or PC-that, and if what you want doesn't work in a PC, nobody wants to know you, and as such, terminals (especially surplus terminals) are very hard to find, so i use another machine of mine for the terminal... Anyway... better go before my bill goes sky high....!!! C ya later.... Craig. Msg#: 6938 *PROJECTS* 08/30/88 09:07:50 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: CRAIG DEWICK (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 6912 (GT180 KEYBOARD ADAPTOR) We've had questions about that before. All the hardware is there to do just what you want, but there isn't any software, and the necessary software isn't trivial. Since the GT180 doesn't have an on-board character generator, the character set must be kept in the frame buffer off-screen and must be put there by the controlling software. For each character that is to be displayed, the software must determine the proper coordinates for the character, then copy it from the reference character set onto the screen. It must also know how to handle terminal control codes for clearing the screen, clearing just one line, positioning the cursor, and scrolling the screen. Decoding an IBM keyboard is no trivial task, either. Rather than produce nice clean ASCII codes, it produces a series of scan codes that must be decoded with the use of tables. Multiple tables must be used for different combinations of shift, ctrl, and alt. All this code and tables would take a lot of storage. And in the stock BIOS, it would have to take that storage away from the already too small TPA. Something might be able to be written for XBIOS that would reside in an alternate bank of memory, but we have no plans for doing so. Sorry. Reply has been deleted Msg#: 6948 *PROJECTS* 08/30/88 12:23:16 From: BOB PADDOCK To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: 8031/87C75 Sence the 8031 CPU seems to be big right now for your projects, you might want to keep your eye out for the 87C75 that Intel is to come out with. I don't have complete specs yet, but rummer has it that it has 32K of EPROM, 32K of RAM, at least 16 lines of I/O, and posiably a timer or two. Should make a nice two chip 8031 system. I saw a message on here from some one that worked at Intel (Don't rember who?) maybe they can fill in the blanks...... Msg#: 6981 *PROJECTS* 08/31/88 09:09:45 From: SAM SMITH To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: DDT-51 In regards to the schematic in september's BYTE, I think I have found some mistakes not listed in your bulletin. 1) The OE and CE on the 6116 are reversed. 2) Shouldn't the OE on the 6264/2764 be connected to *PS instead of *RD? 3) Shouldn't the 253 also have *EPROM CS as well as *RAM CS on pin 14. I anded them to together with a 'ls08 first and connected pin 6 to pin 5 instead of 5v and pin 10 to pin 11 instead of 5v. Are these mistakes for real? Any others I should know about? Msg#: 7036 *PROJECTS* 09/01/88 13:17:58 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: SAM SMITH (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 6981 (DDT-51) Thank you for your bug reports. As I said to Nick in a previous message, the first two have been confirmed and the DDT51UPD.TXT files has been updated to reflect them. Your '253 problems are addressed in the file called DDT51NOT.TXT, so you might want to look at it. Your complaint about the kernel code written for a different assembler is also taken up in the DDT51NOT.TXT file. Msg#: 6999 *PROJECTS* 08/31/88 14:32:28 From: BOB ARMSTRONG To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: SHOCK! I subscribed to CCI and received my first issue. I was pleased to see that it is a well thought out publication that caters to my specific interests. It is nice to know that I am not alone in my desires to build "unusual" hobby devices. I am currently working on a robot with my 7 year old son (who will soon surpass me at programming) and wonder if you have any plans to pursue this subject in future issues. Thanks for the magazine. It's kind of like the OLD Popular Electronics, Radio Electronics and DDJ all rolled into a nice adult (my interests have matured, even if I haven't) format! Bob Msg#: 7010 *PROJECTS* 08/31/88 17:15:09 From: SAM SMITH To: KEN DAVIDSON (Rcvd) Subj: DDT-51 KERNEL AND SCHEMATIC BUGS My earlier posting about bugs in the schematic for the ddt-51 debugger board was not quite correct. The error I mentioned about the A select line on the 'ls253 can be resolved but it requires more than just the addition of an AND gate. I can supply you with the particulars if you want, but I imagine that you have allready figured it out. The schematic as published does not allow the 8031 to supply an address to the 6264/2764. Now that I have that figured out, your software finally works. My other complaint is that the Kernel code (8031 assembly language) seems to be written for the Intel assembler. It will not compile under the PseudoSam assembler that you supplied on your board!Am I missing something here? I would like to use the breakpoint features, etc., but I can't insert my code into the Kernel unless I can compile it. Msg#: 7013 *PROJECTS* 08/31/88 18:41:36 From: JEFF JENSEN To: MARK LAMPKIN (Rcvd) Subj: HOME LAN(D) Mark, I saw your message about what you've done for home based LANs. I am very interested in what you have done and how it was done. I may also be able to find an 180x cross-assembler in the PC-SIG library. I will let you know. In the mean time, if you could write more about what you have built, I would love to hear it. - - Jeff Msg#: 7014 *PROJECTS* 08/31/88 18:44:59 From: JEFF JENSEN To: BOB PADDOCK (Rcvd) Subj: 8051 PROGRAMMING BOOK My copy of the Intel liturature catalog lists the 8051 Programming, Interfacing.... book as part number 555706, for $35.00 Since it is by a third party publisher, they cannot offer any price discounts (so the note in the listing says). - - Jeff Msg#: 7024 *PROJECTS* 09/01/88 07:31:00 From: BOB PADDOCK To: JEFF JENSEN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 7014 (8051 PROGRAMMING BOOK) It's worth the price if your just starting out with the 8051. Msg#: 7049 *PROJECTS* 09/01/88 18:36:36 From: JEFF JENSEN To: BOB PADDOCK (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 7024 (8051 PROGRAMMING BOOK) Good sources of information are invaluable, especially when you need it. I know of several cases where someone pads an order to meet a minimum dollar amount and has the whole thing shipped UPS Red label, just so they can get the $1 item tomorrow. - - Jeff Msg#: 7016 *PROJECTS* 08/31/88 19:58:09 From: NICK LUZESKI To: KEN DAVIDSON (Rcvd) Subj: DDT-51 Steve, More info as debugging goes on. I found that the 8051 code does n set the *INT1 bit in port three high (according to the INTEL manual you must set a special port bit high to use the special functions). Add a SETB P3.3 in line with the instructions which set priority and enable the interrupt. After this chsnge the DDT-51 starts and stops properly. I am still having trouble writing and reading the debug ram, but I'm working on it. More later .... Nick ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Msg#: 7024 *PROJECTS* 09/01/88 07:31:00 From: BOB PADDOCK To: JEFF JENSEN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 7014 (8051 PROGRAMMING BOOK) It's worth the price if your just starting out with the 8051. Msg#: 7049 *PROJECTS* 09/01/88 18:36:36 From: JEFF JENSEN To: BOB PADDOCK (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 7024 (8051 PROGRAMMING BOOK) Good sources of information are invaluable, especially when you need it. I know of several cases where someone pads an order to meet a minimum dollar amount and has the whole thing shipped UPS Red label, just so they can get the $1 item tomorrow. - - Jeff Msg#: 7026 *PROJECTS* 09/01/88 08:23:46 From: BOB STOUT To: ALL Subj: CONTROLLER To anyone intersted in 8051 family devices, Dallas Semiconductor offers what they refer to as the DS5000 Soft Microcontroller which handles the 8051 instruction set, has 8 - 32k non volatile ram,watchdog, capable of modifying it's own progr, and a host of other feat. While on the subject, has anyone used any of the other 8051 simulators on the market other than Avocets' Avsim? Avocets price of $379.00 is out of line and I notice that a few other companies offer simulators under $100.00. To name a few, Mecklenburg Engineering, Hiteck Equipment, and 2500A.D. Anyone have any experience with any of these? Msg#: 7329 *PROJECTS* 09/09/88 16:31:24 From: RICHARD ANDREWS To: BOB STOUT (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 7026 (CONTROLLER) . Cybernetic Microsystems sells a simulator that looks interesting. I don't remember the price. They are located somewhere in southern California somewhere. Msg#: 7035 *PROJECTS* 09/01/88 13:15:31 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: NICK LUZESKI (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 6905 (DDT-51) Thank you for your bug report. The first two have been confirmed and the DDT51UPD.TXT file has been updated to reflect them. Your other problems are addressed in the file called DDT51NOT.TXT, so you might want to take a look at it. Msg#: 7036 *PROJECTS* 09/01/88 13:17:58 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: SAM SMITH (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 6981 (DDT-51) Thank you for your bug reports. As I said to Nick in a previous message, the first two have been confirmed and the DDT51UPD.TXT files has been updated to reflect them. Your '253 problems are addressed in the file called DDT51NOT.TXT, so you might want to look at it. Your complaint about the kernel code written for a different assembler is also taken up in the DDT51NOT.TXT file. Msg#: 7067 *PROJECTS* 09/02/88 02:16:53 From: JOHN DRAGO To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: DDT-51 Hello Steve! It is great to finally be able to converse with you. I've been a long time follower of your work; I have built many of your projects. I've just finished the hardware for the DDT-51 system. I am currently in the middle of debugging the system, and called in to get status updates. I was suprised to say the least! I could not believe the amount of input that you have received / contributed. (THUMBS UP) I'll let you know how it turns out... See you again. John L. Drago Msg#: 7075 *PROJECTS* 09/02/88 08:22:17 From: SAM SMITH To: ED NISLEY (Rcvd) Subj: DDT-51 Thanks for your reply to my bug reports. It wasn't clear to me from the original BYTE article that the Debugger board was to access the Rom/Ram on the target system's board. I thought that the Rom of the target system was to be replaced by the 6264/IC7 on the debugger board. You can see why I was confused about the 'ls253/IC14. Possibly other readers were confused about this too. I didi modify my board so that it would work, but it involved adding another IC. I will probably change back to the correct way of doing it. Some other readers mentioned documentation for the 8031/8051. I purchased the Intel Embedded Controller Handbook part number 210918 from Jameco for $17.95. Very informative and it has the complete instruction set. Msg#: 7095 *PROJECTS* 09/02/88 15:34:50 From: ED NISLEY To: SAM SMITH (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 7075 (DDT-51) Despite my ranting, there probably isn't a "right" way to do it... after all, we set the thing up to solve ONE sort of problem. If you can torment it into solving YOUR problem, that's the way to do it! Go for it! The Intel books are surprisingly informative. You might want to look at the Embedded Control Applications manual (270535-001 by my copy) which has a ton of reprints about various projects and issues. Dunno how much it costs, but it's useful for background info. Msg#: 7259 *PROJECTS* 09/07/88 21:26:39 From: TOM LEMENSE To: ED NISLEY (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 7095 (DDT-51) Well, actually, this is regarding the famed: Embedded Controller Handbook. This book is available from Intel for a price, but it is also available from any local Intel distributor. Most distributors are more than willing to give away a copy of this handbook. Just remember who your friends are and do them a good turn whenever possible. Note also that other companies second-source the 8051/31 family, most notably Signetics but also others like Siemens and SGS-Thompson. These second-sources also are apt to have information re: 8051/31. Just thought that I would point this out. Keep up the good work here, all! Tom LeMense Msg#: 7111 *PROJECTS* 09/02/88 23:02:02 From: TERRY ROSE To: KEN DAVIDSON (Rcvd) Subj: BCC180 Just received the info sheets on the driver patch for use of the aux serial port that you sent. They are just what I needed. Thanks for your timely and generous help. Terry:-) Msg#: 7115 *PROJECTS* 09/03/88 02:42:14 From: JOHN DRAGO To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: DDT-51 Steve, I have a little bit of feedback for you on the DDT-51 system. I am just over half way through Ed's test programs and I am pretty satisfied with the results. I may have un-covered a few more problems; Although I'll let you be the judge of that! On page 307 of Sept. BYTE (ugh!) the wire going to pin 21 of IC1 should not be connected to *wr. I believe that this is wrong (unless the test program is wrong) because that lead is tri-stated until set one way by IC4, or the target system. I hooked the wire *xwr to pin 21 to get the test program to work. Which one is wrong if any? Thanks in advance! John Drago Msg#: 7132 *PROJECTS* 09/03/88 22:47:53 From: ED NISLEY To: JOHN DRAGO (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 7115 (DDT-51) You're right... IC1.21 (-WE) should be connected to IC12.2 (-XWR) instead of -WR for exactly the reason you describe. If it's any consolation, the three wiring changes (so far!) have simply brought the schematic into agreement with the prototype hardware, which continues to work just fine. I'd like to say that everything matches up now, but I've said that before and been flat wrong... The problem you found in the Data To/From 8031 diagnostic test can be solved with a one-line addition to BUS.TST: >>>>> this is about line 150 of BUS.TST <<<< { MUX addr = 00, disabled } SetCR(CtlTo8031,ON); { MUX B (MSB) in } Load8255(I55PB,AddrHiOK); { MUX A (LSB) in } SetSR(XWR,ON); { 1-1 & 2-2 = 0 } SetSR(XPSEN,OFF); { allow XRD gating } SetSR(XRD,ON); { 1-2 & 2-1 = 0 } >>>>> Add this line <<<< SetSR(XALE,OFF); { allow XWR gating } A better fix would use XALE to exercise both states of IC15.11 during the test. I tied IC8.15-17 to both +5V and ground and the diagnostics worked both ways. A fast (not exhaustive) check of the code says that the tests mask off the bits that aren't needed. I suspect that there is something else wrong somewhere in your wiring. If you haven't added decoupling caps to your ICs, it's never too late to start! Msg#: 7116 *PROJECTS* 09/03/88 02:45:49 From: JOHN DRAGO To: ED NISLEY (Rcvd) Subj: DDT-51 Steve, I believe I have uncovered an error in the test programs provided by Ed. When running the test in a sequential fashion, I get error messages when I run the Data_to_8031 & Data_from_8031 tests. If I then exit the test program, restart the test program (not running any tests until Data_to_8031), I can make the test work. FYI Thanks John Drago Msg#: 7127 *PROJECTS* 09/03/88 17:31:15 From: TIM MCDONOUGH To: JEFF JENSEN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 6550 (R/C CONTROLS FOR PLANES & BOATS) I believe Radio Electronics has an article on using a 300 bps modem chip and a pair of walkie talkies this month. Perhaps I wasn't completely clear earlier. I don't want to build my own RC gear from scratch. I want to use the existing on/off or "bomb drop" type digital channel of an existing unit to send serial data to the plane or in my case a boat. I am part of a joint venture that's building a 5ft long PT boat. An on board computer is being used to turn guns, launch torpedos, control lights, etc. Yeah, I know we're crazy but it seemed like the thing to do at the time! Tim Msg#: 7198 *PROJECTS* 09/06/88 12:22:07 From: JEFF JENSEN To: TIM MCDONOUGH (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 7127 (R/C CONTROLS FOR PLANES & BOATS) Sounds interesting. Let us know how you do it. Like the song goes, "I've always been crazy, but it keeps me from going insane" - - Jeff Msg#: 7339 *PROJECTS* 09/10/88 09:00:16 From: TIM MCDONOUGH To: JEFF JENSEN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 7198 (R/C CONTROLS FOR PLANES & BOATS) I'll keep you all posted. Actually, I had so much fun with the robot arm article that I'll probably propose this as a project to Steve once I have a better idea of the time frame involved. Tim Msg#: 7142 *PROJECTS* 09/04/88 10:39:08 From: JOHN DRAGO To: ED NISLEY (Rcvd) Subj: DDT-51 Ed, Thanks for the verification on the third bug in the DDT-51 system! I don't have a pascal compiler so I can't fix the software here. (I will look for changes to test31.arc maybe?) I plan on writing the debug31 programs in C anyway. I am to the target system testing phase now. With the exception of the XP2-XP0 loopback test, everything is fine so far. (maybe the third bug resolution will fix that too?) Anyway... My target system is a CCI MASTER CONTROLLER with a few chips pulled out. (By the way, that CCI MC works fine! I even wrote a test driver for the LCD display. So the target system works.) I replaced the ROM at U10 with a 6264 ram chip. I removed chips U5, U11, U12, and U13. I may have to remove U3 but that creates a small problem with decoding address 0. (maybe install a jumper?) U5, U11, and U12 were removed to eliminate contension for the addresses above 8000H (A15). U13 was removed because of the T0 lead to the 8031. Does this sound like a feasable target system? Msg#: 7168 *PROJECTS* 09/05/88 16:18:40 From: ED NISLEY To: JOHN DRAGO (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 7142 (DDT-51) The Master Controller will make a fine testbed. You'll notice that there's even a connection from the 8031's -WR pin to the EPROM's -PGM pin... how suspicious... The cap on the 8031's RESET pin is a little too big for DEBUG31's quick pulses. Disconnect the normal reset circuitry from the 8031 while you've got the DIP clip in place; you might want to add a jumper so you don't have to solder the thing back. The chips decoded at address C000 won't collide with the Debug RAM at 8000-9FFF, so you don't have to disconnect them. On the other hand, the 32K RAM decoded at 2000-9FFF does have to go, just as you suspect. The connection to T0 has got to go, as well. At the risk of sounding silly, you did install a wrap connector for the XP2-XP0 test, right? It connects XP2.7 to XP0.0, and so forth, so TESTER can make sure that it's not reading back exactly what got written. On the schematic as shown in BYTE, connect S1 pins 4-26, 6-28, 8-30, 10-32, 12-34, 14-36, 16-38, and 18-40. Msg#: 7144 *PROJECTS* 09/04/88 16:53:07 From: MARK BURNETTE To: BOB PADDOCK (Rcvd) Subj: 8031 BOOKS Thanks for the 8031 book info. I ordered it Thursday from Intel for $35 + shipping. I'm astonished at how scarce books on this family seem to be, given the popularity of the devices. I attempted ordering through my local bookstore, but we couldn't find it listed anywhere (Books in Print, etc). Turns out Intel is much faster anyway. They claimed it'd ship UPS Blue Friday. I hope to get my DDT-51 system going this week, so it should arrive just in time. Thanks again. ---Mark Msg#: 7161 *PROJECTS* 09/05/88 12:59:08 From: ED BEROSET To: KEITH TUCHOLSKI (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 914 (HOMEBREW) I just bought a proto card from Advanced Computer Products in California for $25. The number is 1-800-FONE ACP. (Easy to remember!) Msg#: 7175 *PROJECTS* 09/06/88 01:20:08 From: KEITH TUCHOLSKI To: ED BEROSET (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 7161 (HOMEBREW) thanx for the info & fone #. keith Msg#: 7166 *PROJECTS* 09/05/88 15:47:16 From: JOHN DRAGO To: ED NISLEY (Rcvd) Subj: DDT-51 KERNEL UPGRADE Ed, I have modified the KERNEL.ASM file provided in the KERNEL31.ARC archive file. I did not make any logic changes; just syntactic changes to allow the file to be assembled with the PseudoSam 51 Assembler V1.4. I uploaded the file to the newly uploaded files area. This file is called KERNEL31.A51 (I know the decription says V1.5 I slipped on the keyboard!) Feel free to make this file available for distribution in the project area. I am very enthusiastic about this project, and am progressing quite well. I have been able to get a successful download of the kernel, but I cannot pass the XP2->XP0 loopback test. Are you available to talk on the phone? Keep up the good work. Talk to you soon. Msg#: 7174 *PROJECTS* 09/06/88 00:51:25 From: ROGER WETHERBEE To: TOM COOK Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 6841 (HAL4) I started assembling the HAL 4 today. So far it's going together without difficulty (we'll see if I still feel that way when the time comes to test it!). I've got to hand it to Steve, it's a nifty design, both hardware and software. Msg#: 7560 *PROJECTS* 09/18/88 17:57:58 From: ROD JONES To: ROGER WETHERBEE (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 7174 (HAL4) I ASSEMBLED A HAL4 ABOUT A MONTH AGO. IT SEEMS TO WORK OK. I WANT TO REDO THE CODE SO I CAN GET SOME KIND OF AUDITORY FEEDBACK. IT ISN'T MUCH USE IF YOU CANNOT OPEN YOUR EYES TO SEE WHATS GOING ON. IF ANYONE HAS ALREADY DONE THIS LET ME KNOW. THANKS Msg#: 8249 *PROJECTS* 10/08/88 18:05:46 From: ROGER WETHERBEE To: ROD JONES Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 7560 (HAL4) An interesting idea, audio output instead of, or in addition to, the video output. I've not seen any dialogue on this project, but I've been interested in variations on the code (my interest is more in the software end than the hardware). May be a while, but I'll post anything I come up with here. =Roger= Msg#: 7177 *PROJECTS* 09/06/88 01:41:49 From: THOMAS MAYFIELD To: ED NISLEY (Rcvd) Subj: DDT-51 Four stars **** for DDT-51!!! One quick question.... (Byte, Sept. PP-307), Dip Switch for chip select address ranges, should this be located at Y0-Y7 of IC11? I have not seen any mention of this in the updates or messages. I have just received parts, and hope to finish construction this week. This is a very exciting project. Thanks Again. -- THOMAS P.S. On previous messages, a carrage return would not bring me to the next line, so I tried padding with spaces. Looks really weard. What am I doing wrong. Msg#: 7213 *PROJECTS* 09/06/88 21:58:25 From: ED NISLEY To: THOMAS MAYFIELD (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 7177 (DDT-51) You got it. The DIP switch is just visible in the photo on page 303, tucked away on the far side of the board behind the paddle switches and beside the ZIF socket. It connects to IC11.12, .13, .14, and .15 on one side and -EPROM CS on the other, so you can put the EPROM wherever you want. The only catch is that you've got to either hack the HEX file into chunks or modify the download routine to accept a range of addresses, because the current code verifies each byte as it's downloaded (or burned into the EPROM, which is the same process with different timing) and complains about _each_ mismatch. In any event, it's a Simple Matter of Software, as Steve is fond of saying. Unfortunately, it took far too much space to describe, so it got pretty much left out of the everything. We'll leave it as an exercise for the reader... The trick to getting empty lines is that you've got to have at least one space (blank) on the line... _no_ blanks says you're done entering the whole file, as we've both found out. Ken has a few choice stories about my utter incompetence at driving this BBS, which he'll tell behind my back if you ask nicely. Msg#: 7225 *PROJECTS* 09/07/88 01:57:30 From: DAVID WILLIAMS To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: GENERAL Dear Steve, I modified my clone multi- function card per your guidelines and it worked just fine - at least the debug31 program says so. A question, please: can one use a slow math coprocessor chip with a fast clone? If I get a relatively inexpensive 8087, will it insert wait states and work with my 10Mh turbo? Will it effectively slow down the system even if it is not intercepting floating point commands? I'm reading up on chaos and fractals. There is a new book called The Science of Fractal Images, edited by Peitgen and Saupe, which is great. I subscribed to Ink and asked for back issues. They were sent pronto and are just what I was hoping for. Actually, I confess I expected something on the order of First Publisher output stapled together. Thanks a hex million Reply has been deleted Msg#: 7226 *PROJECTS* 09/07/88 07:10:44 From: LARRY SIMS To: ALL Subj: DDT-51 AND BCC-52 . Contact me on this board if you are building a DDT-51 Developement System or are a BCC-52 user in the Houston / Dallas, Texas areas. . I would like to establish a local network of Intel Embedded Controller users. . If you are in the Houston local area you may call me from 7:30 A.M. to 4:30 A.M. on 713-425-3846. Msg#: 7231 *PROJECTS* 09/07/88 08:33:19 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: PETER JUNGHANS (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 7206 (SUBSCRIPTION) If you only subscribed 2 1/2 weeks ago, then you have another month to wait before you can expect to receive the first issue of that subscription. If the "debugger system" you're referring to is the DDT-51, that was a two-part BYTE article and did not appear in any issue of INK. I'll see about having someone call you. Msg#: 7310 *PROJECTS* 09/09/88 02:43:37 From: GEORGE FULLER To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: HAL Hi Steve, We have got HAL working fine, first time. Has anyone written a program to collect HAL data to a file ? A data analysis program for offline use would be useful too. Could you put me in touch with anyone currently interested in developing such programs. Thanks and best wishes. Msg#: 7317 *PROJECTS* 09/09/88 10:06:03 From: STEVE CIARCIA To: GEORGE FULLER Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 7310 (HAL) No one, to my knowledge, has up loaded a data collection program but I'm sure that one will be. HAL is still pretty new. As far as getting in touch with other people you have come to the right place. --Steve Msg#: 7333 *PROJECTS* 09/09/88 22:38:02 From: MARDEN MARSHALL To: JEFF BACHIOCHI (Rcvd) Subj: SERIAL EPROM PROG. HACKING I just recently purchased your serial eprom programmer kit. It is all together now and it even works. But now I want to be able to make changes to the software so that it might better meet my own personal needs. Don't get me wrong, I think that it is a fine piece of engineering. I guess I just can't resist the temptation to pull it apart and find out what makes it tick. Anyway, I can get a listing of the software by breaking into the interpreter but is it possible to get a commented listing ? Also, how does one get manuals on the 8052-BASIC chip. Even if I were to make changes to the BASIC source, I wouldn't know how to get it into ROM. I would appreciate any help and/or information in these areas. Thanks in Advance, Marden Marshall Msg#: 7406 *PROJECTS* 09/13/88 10:59:06 From: JEFF BACHIOCHI To: MARDEN MARSHALL (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 7333 (SERIAL EPROM PROG. HACKING) . Marden, . Call INTEL 1-714-835-9642 and ask for publication # 2700010-003. This is the MCS BASIC-52 USERS MANUAL. . Since the actual code for the SEP is in 3 parts each must be viewed as independent. The first assembly routine (location 2000H) tells the processor where the basic (second part) starts, in our case 2200H. The third part (assembly routines called from basic) is above basic. Care must be taken not to add to the basic so that it overruns into the third part. . A development system was used (BCC52) to write the code and plug the three pieces together! . Micromint sells the INTEL manual for $15. 1-203-871-6170 . jeff Msg#: 7337 *PROJECTS* 09/10/88 02:19:05 From: GREG BELL To: ALL Subj: EPROM BURNER I realize this is an OLD project, and many of you are much more interested in more sophisticated things, but have any of you built the EPROM Burner in the Feb. 1985 Byte CCellar? I d/led the error file, and seem to have found a few other errors. For instance, it seems that the reset line of the 555 should be tied to bit 8 of the latch BEFORE the inverter, not after it, to ensure operation per the text. Also, the values for the 555 timer, according to practical experience and the formula T=1.1*R*C do not seem correct. Were these values chosen based on a timing of the output and so are much more accurate than the formula would give? Help guys and/or Steve! I want to get this project going and I'm 90% through with it. Thanks in advance, Greg Bell Msg#: 7371 *PROJECTS* 09/12/88 10:16:38 From: STEVE CIARCIA To: GREG BELL (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 7337 (EPROM BURNER) The programmer worked fine. The schematic, redrawn at BYTE, unfortunately had a couple errors. I don't know what is listed here for an error file but send me your address and I'll send you a new schematic. --Steve Msg#: 7573 *PROJECTS* 09/19/88 04:58:07 From: GREG BELL To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 7371 (EPROM BURNER) EXCELLENT! A note from the Guru himself! (Actually, Don Lancaster uses that term for himself). Thanks for the reply, Steve. My address, for the updated schematic for the Feb. 1982 EPROM programmer is: Greg Bell 8 Sunset River Irvine, CA, 92714 Incidentally... I have since built the programmer. I did it in two steps: I built the power supply and UART circuits in one box... sort of a protyping box. I can plug a connector into a breadboarding socket, and interface my breadboarded circuits to the computer. The second half was (obviously) the burner. I'm impressed with your later article on your Smart EPROM burner! Especially since you designed/built the damn thing in two weeks! Anyway, I'd appreciate the schematic and thanks! Greg Bell Msg#: 7341 *PROJECTS* 09/10/88 11:44:08 From: TIM GALLAGHER To: ALL Subj: DDT-51 On the Target System cable,how does the pin numbers of socket 1 and socket 2,relate to the pin numbers of the target 8031. 8031 Reset to what pin 8031 etc. Also what are the pin numbers for Vcc and Ground on the 8255(Ic8). Thank you. Msg#: 7424 *PROJECTS* 09/13/88 18:38:41 From: JOHN DRAGO To: TIM GALLAGHER (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 7341 (DDT-51) Tim, The pin number for the 8255 are as follows: GND is pin 7. Vcc is pin 26. The pins on S1 (the 40 pin job) are the way one would like to have them (although it isn't obvious at first glance). Pin 1 of the connector (as marked in the article) goes to pin 1 of the 8031. Pin 39 of the connector is pin 20 of the 8031. Pin 40 of the connector is pin 21 of the 8031. And finally, pin 2 of the connector is pin 40 of the 8031. In other words, going down one side of the connector is the same as going down one side of the 8031. I have a semi-functional system and KNOW this information to be TRUE! Good Luck! Let me know how it comes out. Msg#: 7347 *PROJECTS* 09/11/88 00:47:09 From: SIMON SABATO To: STEVE SMITH (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 4080 (IMAGEWISE AND VGA) A while back someone mentioned that VGA could only do 256 in 320 x 200 mode while SuperEGA could do 640 x 400 with all 256 colors. I thought VGA (apart from 8514) was the current best? -Simon Sabato Msg#: 7618 *PROJECTS* 09/19/88 14:44:03 From: RON WILSON To: SIMON SABATO (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 7347 (IMAGEWISE AND VGA) SuperEGA is *NOT* supported by IBM. VGA can also do the same trick - but again, it's not supported - in fact the latest can't do that trick. (but it probably does some other tricks......) Msg#: 7833 *PROJECTS* 09/25/88 15:34:00 From: STEVE SMITH To: SIMON SABATO (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 7347 (IMAGEWISE AND VGA) My STB EVGA can do 256 colors in 640x480 or 800x600 mode on an analog multisync monitor. This is certainly better than the stnadard IBM products. I am just about to upload a file IMW-EVGA.ARC that gives an example of this mode. If you have an EVGA or super VGA, try it> Msg#: 7355 *PROJECTS* 09/11/88 16:38:31 From: RON SPREIGL To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: A/D CONVERT JAN86 STEVE COULD YOU PLEASE TELL ME HOW HARD IT WOULD BE TO MODIFY YOUR A/D BOARD TOO WORK IN A IBM AT INSTEAD OF THE BCC-52. IF POSSSIBLE COULD YOU GIVE SOME ADVICE ON HOW TO DO IT? THANKS RON SPREIGL Msg#: 7370 *PROJECTS* 09/12/88 10:09:16 From: STEVE CIARCIA To: RON SPREIGL (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 7355 (A/D CONVERT JAN86) When you say "A/D board" I'll presume you mean the last one which was 16 channel 12 bits. I've done many others. In reality, all peripheral boards consist of the peripheral componets with a host bus converter attached. The BCC30 has a BCC-bus interface. To use it, you have to remove the BCC stuff and replace it with IBM PC interface stuff. The description of which is a bit much for a letter here, but is the subject of some upcoming CC INK projects. --Steve Msg#: 7362 *PROJECTS* 09/12/88 05:46:33 From: JON CAMPBELL To: ALL Subj: IMAGEWISE VIDEO CAMERAS IM LOOKING FOR A GOOD INEXPENSIVE VIDEO CAM SUITABLE FOR B/W IMAGE PROCESSING.FEEDBACK WOULD BE APPRECIATED.ALSO DOES ANYONE HAVE EXPERIENCE IN TRI COLOR SEPERATION TYPE PROCESSING FOR TRUE COLOR IMAGES WITH IMAGEWISE. THANKS JON Msg#: 7366 *PROJECTS* 09/12/88 08:51:55 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: JON CAMPBELL Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 7362 (IMAGEWISE VIDEO CAMERAS) Fordham Radio has lots of B&W cameras intended for closed-circuit applications that are well-suited to the ImageWise. You can contact them at (800) 645-9518, (800) 832-1446 (in NY), or (516) 435-8080. Msg#: 7384 *PROJECTS* 09/12/88 16:15:48 From: JOHN ROTHROCK To: ALL Subj: IMAGEWISE SOURCE CODE Has anyone converted the imagewise Turbo Pascal 3.0 source code to Turbo Pascal 4.0? Thanks, John Rothrock Msg#: 7838 *PROJECTS* 09/25/88 15:57:37 From: STEVE SMITH To: JOHN ROTHROCK (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 7384 (IMAGEWISE SOURCE CODE) Yes I have. I have been working on Image wise images for the VGA and in the process created a Version 4.0 Turbo PASCAL unit containing all the Circuit Cellar rotuines. I will upload it whan I get a faster modem, (about a month from now). If you are in a hurry, send a diskette (5 1/4 or 3 1/2) and a stamped self addressed mailer (or $5 for me to supply them) to Steve Smith 8421 Woodland Rd Millersville, MD 21108 Msg#: 8974 *PROJECTS* 10/22/88 16:57:03 From: STEVE SMITH To: JOHN ROTHROCK Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 7877 (IMAGEWISE SOURCE CODE) Will upload IMAGEWIS.TPU today. This is a Turbo PASCAL unit containing all the include files ditributed with the ImageWise. Msg#: 7407 *PROJECTS* 09/13/88 11:06:50 From: TRAVIS MAXWELL To: ALL Subj: IMAGEWISE /MAC? DOES ANYONE KNOW OF A PROGRAM THAT WILL TAKE THE SERIAL DATA FROM THE IMAGEWISE TRANSMITTER AND DISPLAY IT ON A MAC OR MAC II HOPEFULLY IN PIC FORMAT? IF YOU COULD HELP ME IN THIS I WOULD BE GRATEFULL THANKS TRAVIS MAXWELL... Msg#: 7411 *PROJECTS* 09/13/88 12:08:30 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: TRAVIS MAXWELL (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 7407 (IMAGEWISE /MAC?) Someone just uploaded such a program to BIX the other day. I'll get it downloaded and post it here. Msg#: 7421 *PROJECTS* 09/13/88 16:33:01 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: TRAVIS MAXWELL (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 7407 (IMAGEWISE /MAC?) The program and some sample pictures are now posted in the ImageWise program file area (*not* the project file area). The necessary file archiving program is also there if you don't already have it. Msg#: 8248 *PROJECTS* 10/08/88 18:04:34 From: TRAVIS MAXWELL To: KEN DAVIDSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 7411 (IMAGEWISE /MAC?) THANKS !!! Msg#: 7417 *PROJECTS* 09/13/88 14:51:17 From: LEN BAYLES To: SYSOP (Rcvd) Subj: DDT51 Where can I get the information to program the 8051 on a standard Eprom programer ? Msg#: 7419 *PROJECTS* 09/13/88 16:11:16 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: LEN BAYLES (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 7417 (DDT51) In the DDT-51 article, Steve oversimplified a bit what was necessary to program an 8751 (an 8051 is mask programmed, not user programmed). It turns out that it takes a complete article to describe the adapter board, and the board can only be used on a Circuit Cellar Serial EPROM Programmer (since it's necessary to alter the timing parameters and they don't match a standard EPROM). An 8752BH and an 87C252BH can be programmed as 2764As using the adapter and a standard programmer, but it still takes the article to describe the adapter board. We plan on publishing the complete article in an upcoming issue of INK (perhaps as early as #6, but that's subject to change). Unfortunately, there isn't anything that I can post on the BBS that would be of any use. Msg#: 7420 *PROJECTS* 09/13/88 16:31:02 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: LEN BAYLES (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 7417 (DDT51) I'm now told that we are sending copies of the article to people asking for the information. Leave me your address and I'll get it to the right people. Msg#: 7551 *PROJECTS* 09/18/88 10:38:30 From: LEN BAYLES To: KEN DAVIDSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 7420 (DDT51) Thanks for the info. My address is 10165 S. Flanders Rd.,Sandy Ut 84092. Msg#: 7716 *PROJECTS* 09/21/88 18:03:09 From: DAVID WRESKI To: KEN DAVIDSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 7419 (DDT51) Steve, I have been trying to find a adaptor board for the 8751 for a long time. If I have to redesign my controller for a 8751 and buy a seperate programmer it would be out of the question. Please try to include it in the next CCI issue. Dave..... Msg#: 7725 *PROJECTS* 09/21/88 21:59:39 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: DAVID WRESKI (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 7716 (DDT51) Issue #5 is already at the printers and #6 is well on its way to being filled up. Like I said, leave me your address and I'll have a copy of the article sent to you now. No waiting. Msg#: 8402 *PROJECTS* 10/12/88 08:14:17 From: DAVID WRESKI To: KEN DAVIDSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 7725 (DDT51) Ken, My address Dave Wreski 127 Pleasant Ave. U. Saddle River, N.J. 07458 .. Thanks Ken. Msg#: 7431 *PROJECTS* 09/13/88 21:18:58 From: ED NISLEY To: TOM LEMENSE Subj: FREE TECH INFO Yup. I've never paid for any of the things, but I have one of the three honest faces (it's one of the twelve standard faces, but honest-looking). Some folks find that the honest but poor approach doesn't pan out, so I'm hesitant to suggest it as a general policy. After the fourth guy walks in the door and says "Ed Nisley says you guys pass out free books" my name would be mud, right? Msg#: 7451 *PROJECTS* 09/14/88 11:56:45 From: ALAN GOLDSTEIN To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: KEYBOARD FOR SMARTTERM . Just revisiting an old project of yours. Did you ever try interfacing a PC or AT keyboard to your NS455 based terminal? I can figure out the software, but I know next to nothing about the keyboard electrical protocol. I looked at Keys310.arc in the IBM area, but that is basically the keycodes and DOS/BIOS operation. Any help on where to find info about the serial interface used by IBM compat stuff? I figure that whatever serial interface is needed could generate an interrupt to the NS455 which would look like an encoded keyboard, possibly with a firmware table to decode the keycode to ASCII. Any thoughts? Thanks Msg#: 7471 *PROJECTS* 09/15/88 08:49:42 From: STEVE CIARCIA To: ALAN GOLDSTEIN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 7451 (KEYBOARD FOR SMARTTERM) Sorry, never did that. However, Bill Curlew has a project in the works for CC INK that may be of interest. It is a circuit that takes an IBM keyboard and converts it to standard parallel ASCII (including code conversion). Stay tuned or drop him a note here. --Steve Msg#: 8006 *PROJECTS* 10/04/88 05:01:27 From: FRANK KUECHMANN To: ALAN GOLDSTEIN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 7451 (KEYBOARD FOR SMARTTERM) Alan -- Early IBM PC keyboards used a 10-bit serial data format -- 2 start bits and 8 data bits. XT keyboards use a 9-bit format with only 1 start bit. The XT start bit is active high, AT's low. There are other differences, too, like the scancodes used. So the first thing you need to decide on is exactly what kind of IBM keyboard you want to adapt. The serial format data transfer is clocked with a separate line. Voltage levels are TTL using open-collector buffers as the drivers. Serial-to-parallel con- version is best done with a shift register like 'LS322. Once you get that far, you have to convert the IBM "scan code" to ASCII. Most practical way to do that is probably a microprocessor that uses an EPROM-resident look-up table. If you give me your ad- dress, I can mail you some info on the IBM keyboard interface, the scan codes used, etc. Such things can be found in Norton's Programmer's Guide to the PC; scan codes are in Borland's language manuals also. RADIO-ELECTRONICS published a series of articles on building a 68000-based computer that uses the PC bus; the series ran from late last year [beginning around Sept or Oct] through the middle of '88. One of those articles [back about the Feb. '88 issue or so] shows keyboard interface cir- cuitry like what you'd need clearly. That just shows hardware, and you'd need additional components to do the scan code-to- ASCII conversion. Doing the conversion with an EPROM instead of a microprocessor isn't very realistic; each key has a "make" code with the high bit clear that's sent by the keyboard when that key is pressed. When the key is released, a "break" code is transmitted; it's the same as the "make" code but with the high bit set. In order for the shift, control and alt keys to func- tion, you have to keep track of their states [depressed or not]. Same for auto-repeat to work when a key is held down. You might be able to trick something up using a bunch of latches and an EPROM and an astable oscillator to do it, but it makes better sense to use a microprocessor and look-up tables in EPROM. Msg#: 8068 *PROJECTS* 10/05/88 02:01:37 From: JIM KONEN To: ALAN GOLDSTEIN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 7451 (KEYBOARD FOR SMARTTERM) Seems like a lot of effort and time to convert an IBM keyboard. Micromint sells one that plugs right in. Mine works fine and is cheaper than an IBM and custom circuits. Jim Msg#: 9419 *PROJECTS* 10/30/88 20:57:58 From: ALAN GOLDSTEIN To: FRANK KUECHMANN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 8006 (KEYBOARD FOR SMARTTERM) . Sorry I didn't get back sooner, we were in the middle of hurricane season. The keyboard info in your message is exactly the type of stuff I need. I am planning on interfacing an AT style keyboard to an NS405 terminal processor. Steve did an article in Byte back in early 1984, creating a stand alone terminal with this I.C. It executes a superset of the 8048 instructions, with all kinds of registers and I/O for display support. At the time, he set the hardware up for either a scanning matrix or parallel encoded (with strobe) keyboard. In addition to updating the software (I need to emulate an HP 26xx terminal), I wanted to use a keyboard that is easy to obtain & has edit keys. The NS405 has the power and addressing capability to do key code conversion, so software is the way to go (and as you say, the make/break codes are much easier to handle). If you could send any other info you have, I'd really appreciate it. My address is: 4301 N.W. 2nd Court Boca Raton, Fla. 33431 Thanks again for the info. Msg#: 9428 *PROJECTS* 10/31/88 03:42:22 From: FRANK KUECHMANN To: ALAN GOLDSTEIN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 9419 (KEYBOARD FOR SMARTTERM) OK, I'll put together a bunch of info and send it. There were a couple of interfaces in '68' Micro Journal last year that I didn't mention before; one of them used a Motorola 68705 microcontroller with built-in EPROM that was set up for some special cursor controls for a SWTP terminal. How are things in Boca these days? I was born in W Palm Beach although spent most of my life in the Chicago area. I'll bundle up a bunch of the keyboard info and get it sent this week hopefully. -- Frank Msg#: 9464 *PROJECTS* 10/31/88 13:57:39 From: ALAN GOLDSTEIN To: FRANK KUECHMANN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 9428 (KEYBOARD FOR SMARTTERM) . I appreciate the info. So. Fla. is not the same as when you grew up here. It's not even the same as when I moved in 1971. Most of that is because of Big Blue and the other high tech - I think Boca has more silicon than sand these days. Oh well, it beats Miami (where I work). Thanks again. Msg#: 9790 *PROJECTS* 11/08/88 04:30:27 From: FRANK KUECHMANN To: ALAN GOLDSTEIN Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 9464 (KEYBOARD FOR SMARTTERM) Keyboard info is on the way. The most notable thing about Boca used to be the old airbase where they trained B-17 crews during WWII. Even after the base had been abandoned for 15 years the concrete runways and aprons were still there and in good shape. When they put up the Florida Atlantic U campus in the mid-60s they had pre-paved parking lots. Msg#: 9866 *PROJECTS* 11/09/88 16:51:49 From: STEVE CIARCIA To: FRANK KUECHMANN Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 9790 (KEYBOARD FOR SMARTTERM) The runways sound like a good place to test a Porsche :-) --Steve Msg#: 7454 *PROJECTS* 09/14/88 17:22:04 From: JOHN ROTHROCK To: KEN DAVIDSON (Rcvd) Subj: IMAGEWISE SOFTWARE We have an ImageWise digitizer and the Turbo Pascal software. We have Turbo Pascal 4.0 and the software is for 3.0. Has anyone made this conversion already? THank You. John Rothrock Msg#: 7473 *PROJECTS* 09/15/88 08:53:02 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: JOHN ROTHROCK (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 7454 (IMAGEWISE SOFTWARE) Sorry, but the software has never been converted to 4.0. There is a conversion utility that comes with the 4.0 compiler, but I'm told it doesn't catch everything. The best I can suggest is use the conversion utility, then hand convert what it doesn't catch. Msg#: 7478 *PROJECTS* 09/15/88 16:21:55 From: JOHN ROTHROCK To: KEN DAVIDSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 7473 (IMAGEWISE SOFTWARE) Thanks. I was afraid of that. We had already found that the Upgrade program doesn't quite do it. John ROthrock Msg#: 7839 *PROJECTS* 09/25/88 16:01:18 From: STEVE SMITH To: JOHN ROTHROCK (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 7454 (IMAGEWISE SOFTWARE) I have made the conversion and created an imagewise unit for Turbo Ver 4. I will upload a copy in the future, but if you are in a hurry send me a diskette and self addressed staamped mailer (or $5 for me to supply them). I'll send you copies plus some of the routines I have been writing to use the unit. Steve Smith 8421 Woodland Rd Millersville, MD 21108 Msg#: 7476 *PROJECTS* 09/15/88 14:59:32 From: GORDON VANDENBURG To: ALL Subj: BCC180 I HAVE SEVERAL QUESTIONS ABOUT THE BCC180 ROMMED BASIC. I AM TRYING TO IMPLEMENT A MASTER CONTROLLER WITH SEVERAL SLAVES CONNECTED TO THE RS-485 PORT 0 (FILE -1). SERIAL PORT 1 IS USED FOR LOCAL COMMUNICATIONS. I WANT TO BE ABLE TO TELL SLAVE CONTROLLER #1 TO START IT'S JOB AND I EXPECT AN ANSWER OR RESULT CODE FROM IT. . #1 HOW DO I PUT A TIME LIMIT ON THE RESPONSE? I DON'T WANT ONE . UNPLUGGED SLAVE UNIT TO TIE UP THE SYSTEM. . I HAVE TRIED A SEPERATE TASK FOR A TIMER THAT WOULD CANCEL THE INPUT TASK. BUT NO GO. . #2 THE "RUN TASK,TICS" DOES THE "TICS" HAVE A DEFAULT VALUE IF NOT . SPECIFIED? WHEN TRIED TO RUN A TASK AT SPECIFIC INTERVALS I FOUND . THAT I NEEDED A CANCEL STATEMENT AS WELL AS EXIT SO THAT THE TASK . WOULD ONLY RUN ONCE UNTIL CALLED AGAIN. . BY THE WAY BCC11'S WILL BE MY SLAVES. . KEEP UP THE GOOD WORK. THANKS :-) . GORDIE Msg#: 7500 *PROJECTS* 09/16/88 09:07:11 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: GORDON VANDENBURG (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 7476 (BCC180) First, I hope you realize that using FILE -1 only gets you one-way communication with the auxiliary serial port. FILE -1 is used for printer output and doesn't redirect INPUT statements. We have a short supplement to the manual that describes how to install a device driver for two-way communication with the auxiliary port. As far as a timeout goes, it really depends on how much time you're talking about and whether other activity needs to occur at the same time. A simple FOR-NEXT loop with a test for response inside the loop would do for short timeouts. For longer times, an independent task that increments a counter every second or so could be used as a timebase, and a test inside your response loop for whether the counter has passed a certain value could be used. To the best of my knowledge, you must specify a scheduling interval with every RUN statement. Suppose you use the statement RUN 1,60. Task #1 will then be scheduled to run once every 60 tics, or once per second. If the task takes less than 1/60 of a second to run, it will run to completion every time it is scheduled. If it takes longer, then it will be suspended after 1/60 of a second and resumed one second later. If you want a task to run just once every so often and not at fixed time intervals, then the way to do it is make it a subroutine and call it with a GOSUB; it doesn't make sense to make it a task, then run it and cancel it. If you still have problems, I really need to see some code to know what you're trying to do and to see what is happening. Msg#: 7518 *PROJECTS* 09/16/88 18:33:32 From: GORDON VANDENBURG To: KEN DAVIDSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 7500 (BCC180) THANKS FOR THE RESPONSE. HOW DO I GO ABOUT OBTAINNING A COPY OF THAT SUPPLEMENT? . THANKS :-) . GORDIE Msg#: 7580 *PROJECTS* 09/19/88 08:45:10 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: GORDON VANDENBURG (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 7518 (BCC180) Leave me your address and I'll send you a copy. Msg#: 7621 *PROJECTS* 09/19/88 17:40:08 From: GORDON VANDENBURG To: KEN DAVIDSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 7580 (BCC180) GORDON L. VANDENBURG P.O.BOX 327 UPTON, MA. 01568 . THANKS :-) GORDIE Msg#: 7490 *PROJECTS* 09/16/88 00:01:36 From: JOHN DRAGO To: ED NISLEY (Rcvd) Subj: DDT-51 Ed, I have successfully completed the tests provided by you in the test31.arc file. I can run continous test on testing the debug ram and the target ram. Aside from that, there are only three more signals to look at (RESET 8031, IRQ, and 8031 HALTED). In the problem that I am having, only the RESET 8031 signal comes into play (I hope). I cannot get the target system to run the kernel program. When I download the kernel everything is fine. I believe the problem is that the data in the target system ram (6264 with +5v applied to pin 26) is getting trashed. The WR lead on the target system was a dead-giveaway! It oscillates between high and low for a period of time when the RESET 8031 lead is brought low again. As it turns out, the WR lead is not the only lead that does this. Most of the leads on the 8031 do this (P0, P1, RD, ALE, WR, P2, P3). My question to you is: Is the 8031 going into some unexpected mode? (sleep mode, powerdown mode?) My target system is a CCI MASTER CONTROLLER rev 1.0 with a P8031AH cpu, a 6264 (150ns) ram, an address decoder (U3 74ls156 & U6 74c08), and a address latch (U4 74ls373). After about a second, the signals settle down. Everthing goes to normal and the ALE oscillates as normal. By that time, the RAM has got to be trashed. Any suggestions? And by the way, the cable running between the DDT and the IBM printer port may be the most important connection in the system! Make sure it's shielded. Don't use ribbon cable! When writing data to the DDT, the signals will cause the two 74ls374's to false; this latches garbage into the outputs (BAD NEWS). Msg#: 7636 *PROJECTS* 09/19/88 22:00:13 From: ED NISLEY To: JOHN DRAGO (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 7490 (DDT-51) Judging from the fact that you can read and write the Program and Debug RAMs successfully, the program is getting into the RAM just fine. What's going wrong is that the 8031 isn't getting the right data, either because it's trashed by noise or simply miswired. The diagnostics can't tell if you've got the data wires interchanged, because the data goes in and comes out through the same path. Check carefully to make sure that the bits are getting to the right place on the 8031; an ohmmeter will show this sort of problem right off the bat. The cable between the PC and the DDT-51 board is the SECOND most important cable in the system... the FIRST most critical cable connects the DDT-51 to the 8031. It has to handle megahertz pulses with no crosstalk and no glitches, which isn't as easy as we may have made it sound. If you're using a single ribbon cable connected to the DIP clip, it probably is causing your troubles. Split the cable into two sections as I've described in the hints & tips notes posted in the Files area. That will put the controls in a separate cable with interleaved grounds and cure lots of very tricky intermittent glitches. Start off with a two-line 8031 program: top CPL P3.2 (the INT0 pin, which isn't used) LJMP top Burn it into an EPROM and stick it into the socket without the DIP clip. Check P3.2 with a scope for a 3 us square wave, which should be solid as a rock. If that's OK, burn the KERNEL program into EPROM. Stick it in the socket, clamp on the DIP clip, and try downloading the KERNEL file. This sounds silly, but it if it doesn't work you've discovered something. If it does work, you should be able to run Debug31 as though the program was in RAM. If that works, you know you've got bad glitch problems with the RAM. Msg#: 7633 *PROJECTS* 09/19/88 21:32:34 From: PETER KURN To: ANYONE Subj: PROJECT ICT01 Need to purchase software for the PC terminal mode. Please help, Peter 1-312-761-2125 Msg#: 7660 *PROJECTS* 09/20/88 18:10:28 From: JEFF BACHIOCHI To: PETER KURN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 7633 (PROJECT ICT01) . Peter, . That software is available for $59 from CCI. 203-875-2751 . jeff Msg#: 7641 *PROJECTS* 09/20/88 00:35:55 From: ROBERT BARBAGALLO To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: BCC52 HI STEVE, I'VE BEEN A FAN FOR YEARS. I'VE BUILT SOME OF YOUR PROJECTS, THE 1 I HAD MOST FUN WITH WAS THE BCC52. I WIREWRAPED THE BOARD AND MADE SEVERAL SMALL PROJECTS WITH IT. I WAS WONDERING IF I COULD PURCHASE A BLANK PCB? THIS WOULD HELP ME MAKE IT MORE USEABLE. THANKING YOU IN ADVANCE. ROBERT BARABAGALLO Msg#: 7647 *PROJECTS* 09/20/88 10:22:24 From: STEVE CIARCIA To: ROBERT BARBAGALLO (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 7641 (BCC52) Sorry, Bob, the CCB-52 (BCC-52 in kit form) is only available as a full kit from CCI. Realize now, however, it is shipped with the new CMOS 80C52-BASIC chip. --Steve Msg#: 7684 *PROJECTS* 09/21/88 00:50:09 From: JOHN DRAGO To: ED NISLEY (Rcvd) Subj: DDT-51 Ed, Sorry for the bad information. I had a problem in the target system. YOU CAN CHALK-UP ANOTHER SUCCESS!! I've finally finished the DDT-51. Everything works fine without any unreported modifications. I'd like to thank you again for all of your help in debugging this project. John Msg#: 7847 *PROJECTS* 09/25/88 21:05:35 From: ED NISLEY To: JOHN DRAGO (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 7684 (DDT-51) Whew! Now I can get some sleep! Glad to hear it's working... now you can get down to the REALLY hard part of the project -- getting your code working! Msg#: 7757 *PROJECTS* 09/22/88 19:12:03 From: CHRIS CONSTANTINIDES To: KEN DAVIDSON (Rcvd) Subj: 8051 COMPILER Steve I have access to a Intel ASM51 compiler and RL51 locator. Iam having a problem trying to read the output file out of the RL51. It seems to have a header and tail block, but I have no documentation about the format out of the RL51. I have tried to get this information from Intel but have had no success. Do you know the format or tell me how to get a copy of the format? Thanks, Chris Constantinides Msg#: 7777 *PROJECTS* 09/23/88 09:04:00 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: CHRIS CONSTANTINIDES (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 7757 (8051 COMPILER) Sorry, but nobody here knows enough about the Intel tools to be of any help to you. Maybe another user will see your message and have some advice. Any takers? Msg#: 7774 *PROJECTS* 09/23/88 02:28:04 From: JOHN DELACY To: JEFF BACHIOCHI (Rcvd) Subj: SERIAL EPROM PROGRAMMER Jeff, Thank you for sending me the version 1.6 ROM. I have discovered another problem with my board which may or may not be software. When the system is reset (by pushing the reset push button), 30 volts appears briefly on pins 1, 22, and 23. The same also happens when power is applied or removed. I lost two EPROMs before I discovered the problem. It is certainly irresponsible to leave an EPROM in the ZIF socket when turning the board on or off, but it is not unreasonable to use the reset switch to abort a long operation. An EPROM will almost definitely die if it is in the ZIF socket when this happens. Do I have a software or hardware problem? Thanks in advance for any help. Msg#: 7782 *PROJECTS* 09/23/88 09:30:10 From: STEVE CIARCIA To: JOHN DELACY (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 7774 (SERIAL EPROM PROGRAMMER) Sorry, but pushing the reset switch with a chip in the socket is a no-no. Blame it on me. I inadvertently forgot that 8255 PIAs go high when reset in my original design. To late to change it now. Your manual DOES state in a number of cases (there should even have been a big sticker on the outside of the kit as you received it) that you should not do a hardware reset with an EPROM installed. If you need a solution, wire an external double pole toggle switch that turns off the +30v right at the DC to DC converter before hitting reset. If we ever redesign the the CCSEP we will fix that but once people know about it (most don't have to blow up EPROMs if they've read the manual) it isn't a concern. --Steve Msg#: 7802 *PROJECTS* 09/24/88 02:03:59 From: JOHN DELACY To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 7782 (SERIAL EPROM PROGRAMMER) Steve, Thank you for a prompt reply about my problem with destroying EPROMs in my Serial EPROM Programmer. I should tell you that in my manual (which I got with the experimenter 's kit), there is no warning about doing a hardware reset with an EPROM in the ZIF socket that I can find. I suspect that I have an early version of the kit (my manual says Release 1.0). My original system ROM was version 1.2 and it contained an error that caused voltages to be present on the ZIF socket when the LED said it was safe to insert an EPROM. I was never notified that I needed a later version for safe operation, although I was notified that I could purchase version 2.0 for an additional cost. I discovered the error myself and discovered the new version by calling Jeff on the phone. He was very kind to send me version 1.6 ROM right away in the mail. If early versions of the manual are out there that don't warn people about the danger of resetting the board with an EPROM in the ZIF socket, perhaps they should be informed. It is very difficult for even large companies to keep track of all versions of a product, as I know from professional experience. Is there a better way to abort a programming operation than to Control-C into the interpreter and restart the program (since I can't use the hardware reset anymore)? Thanks for your help. Reply has been deleted Msg#: 7808 *PROJECTS* 09/24/88 04:20:57 From: CRAIG DEWICK To: ALL Subj: HARD DISKS FOR THE SB180FX I recently acquired a Miniscribe 3650 hard disk which I intend to use on my SB180FX. I ordered some SCSI to ST506 controllers (Adaptec 5500) from Computer Surplus Store in CA, but their mail order department stuffed up and sent me the wrong goods!!! Boy was i annoyed, especially since I had already paid US$524.09 for them, and i needed them yesterday... So i rang them (i hate international calls cos they are so expensive!!!) and they shipped the correct ones out on Wednesday US western time (Thursday over here in Oz). Our customs department also gave me the run around, so i wasted a whole day trying to get a refund of the A$300 i had paid customs for sales tax and import duty. They would not give it to me!!! So in the end i managed to convince them that the next parcel would contain the correct goods, and so now i have a A$300 credit with our customs service. The real problem is that I have been trying to get these damn things for a whole month now, 4U%0~f~^fa?}F](s Msg#: 7938 *PROJECTS* 09/29/88 14:43:09 From: JEFF BACHIOCHI To: DICK FAIRBANKS (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 7814 (IC TESTER) . Dick, . Any pins tied together on the chip (in circuit) would cause errors in determining if the chip was good! Starts becoming too complecated. . jeff Msg#: 7824 *PROJECTS* 09/24/88 23:23:39 From: CHRIS BARBER To: ANYONE Subj: GT180 MODIFICATIONS To anyone who has any comments or ideas, I am involved in interfacing the GT180 to a home-built 68000 computer system. I have modified my GT180 to operate on a 16-bit bus and everything is running great. I am now looking into ways of re-configuring or modifying the GT180 to provide more than 16 colors per pixel. One method I am investigating is to re-program the video shift registers (GVACs) to operate in the 4-bit by 8 bit mode as opposed to the 2-bit by 16-bit mode. If anyone has modified their GT180 in this way or is interested in this project please respond. I am an electrical and computer engineer in Dallas, Texas. I would like to correspond or meet with anyone in the Dallas area who is using a GT180 or is interested in 68000 projects. Msg#: 8928 *PROJECTS* 10/21/88 13:03:22 From: WILLIE RIVERS To: CHRIS BARBER Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 7824 (GT180 MODIFICATIONS) Hi Chris I've got a GT180 on my SB180 and have enjoyed it for some time now.But i've always wanted to adapt it to a faster machine.I made some inquires thur CCI BBS to get info about adapting it to my 10MHZ AT clone with no luck. All I got was a vague Timing difference answer. If you have any Idea about this I would appreciate your help. Maybe I would even consider wire wrapping a 68000 machine . I've done 2 wire wrap machines already. Let me hear from you . Thanks Wiliie Msg#: 7829 *PROJECTS* 09/25/88 10:55:00 From: SAM ROMERO To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: SERIAL EPROM PROGRAMMER On page 18 of the CCSEP manual there are 2 C1's is this correct? I can't find the second C1 on the schematic. Thanks, Sam Msg#: 7897 *PROJECTS* 09/28/88 09:57:45 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: SAM ROMERO (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 7829 (SERIAL EPROM PROGRAMMER) I am told that the board was laid out to use either an axial or a radial lead cap for C1. Only one should be installed. Msg#: 7836 *PROJECTS* 09/25/88 15:48:42 From: STEVE SMITH To: RON WILSON (Rcvd) Subj: SUPER VGA Do you have a "super VGA"? I have just uploaded a program to display ImageWilse pics in the 640x480 256 color mode and would like some feed back. There are data with the program, so you do not need an Image WIse to check it out. The program works on my STB card, but I have been unable to test with any others. If you can, down loaf IMW-EVGA.ARC and run it. It should display "Mug Shots" of yours truely, plus a brief personal profile. Comments appreciated Reply has been deleted Msg#: 7837 *PROJECTS* 09/25/88 15:54:34 From: STEVE SMITH To: JON CAMPBELL Subj: COLOR SEPARATION FOR IMAGEWISE While I have got any ideas for true color separation, I have a technique for giving background and subject different color profiles. I capture a background image immediately after removeing my forground subject. Using the Imagewise processing routines, a can create a mask of my subject an add a constant to all pixels in the subject area (I.E. to a person in the middle of a sceen). typically the constant in 64 or greater. I use SPLASH (256 colors 320x200 on IBM VGA) to color the pictures. Becuase the background ans forground now have different 64 color subsets of the 256 color pallete, colorizing the subject does not produce strange effects in the background. Msg#: 7854 *PROJECTS* 09/26/88 00:23:48 From: BOB BERGER To: JEFF BACHIOCHI (Rcvd) Subj: HAL 4 AND TESTING I've built my kit and it seems to basically work. I hooked up the HAL as shown in the manual. (I used my wife as a guinea pig, she kept asking if I was planning to electrocute her, I assured her not). I'm using a Sun Workstation (believe it or not, it was easier to get this than a Mac cause of where I work!, I still plan to port HAL to the Mac when I can get my hands on one again). If I just read out the values coming over the RS-232 port, I get almost continuous -126 values +- 2 or so every once in a while on channels 0 and 1. It seems I'm just picking up noise or that the signal is getting clamped somewhere. If I touch an open electrode, I do see big changes.. If I move the 4 signal electrodes (connected to my wife) to channels 2 and 3 I get what looked like a possibly real signal but it only was fluctuating between 121 and 127 with an occasional -128 and some spikes. I measured the resistance between electrodes and they were less than 25k ohms. Could I have a problem with channels 0 and 1? What should I expect for value swings on the input? In the section of the manual where you talk about testing for confidence, you mention hooking up a signal generator. Could you go into more detail as to what kind of resistor network and transformer is necessary to insure proper levels and impedence matching? Bob Berger (& Daphne Karandanis) 508-535-6644 508-374-4975 PS what do you do when you forget your password? Msg#: 7939 *PROJECTS* 09/29/88 15:08:33 From: JEFF BACHIOCHI To: BOB BERGER Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 7854 (HAL 4 AND TESTING) . Bob, . I use a divide by 1,000,000 resister divider to get a low microvolt input to HAL. Nothing sophisticated a 4.7 meg and a 4.7 k to ground across a 4.7 k to ground fed by a 4.7 meg. . --4.7M--.--4.7M--. . 4 4 . . . . 7 7 . K K . --------------------ground . jeff . Log on with a modified name, leave the SYSOP a message and he will either remove one or ignore one! Msg#: 7867 *PROJECTS* 09/26/88 14:50:06 From: ADAM SUNDOR To: TOM WRONA (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 6808 (HAL ETC.) I am only used to commercial TENS units which can be purchased from a distributor for about $70. They have a knob adjustable from about 1 Hz to 220 Hz. I amnot familiar with the hemi-sync kit. I tried doing that just with a computer and a tape recorder that records on two separate tracks. I put out a basic frequency at 400 Hz and another at 407Hz, which then supposedly is summed inside the brain for 7 Hz. Thanks for replying to my message. Changing the wave to a modified sqaure wave is good for approximating alternating current. Be careful when using the TENS near the head, you are not supposed to. A DC current, direct current TENS, with one of the electrodes, I cannot recall if it is the plus or the minus onem can increase tissue damage to a damaged ear. Microamps get good results, I am told, better than milliamps. The range of the microamps is the range of the Alpha-Stim 350 which is a popular high cost TENS unit. It seems to approximate actual nerve impulses better. I built the HAL kit. Great. Anyone with a 4 channel modification? Adam Msg#: 8997 *PROJECTS* 10/23/88 08:25:53 From: TOM WRONA To: ADAM SUNDOR (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 7867 (HAL ETC.) Hmmm. I wish I hadn't waited so long between calls. Sounds like you're doing some interesting stuff. Where have you seen commercial TENS units for $70? The ones I've seen go for about $500, grossly overpriced, of course. By now, I guess you've seen the series in Radio Electronics on building a "Synergy card" which is PC card which generates tones for the frequency following response. Have you seen the articles? Do you have any intention of building one? The articles are in the Sep, Oct and Nov issues. I have all three if you need them. Oops I just reread your message and I guess maybe we talked about this. That's what I get for waiting so long between calls. BTW, I'm getting a copy of OrCad PCB in a few days and I'm going to create a pcb layout from the schematic I have for the TENS device. I'll make it available to anyone who's interested. Hope to hear from you soon. -- Tom -- Msg#: 9909 *PROJECTS* 11/10/88 13:36:26 From: ADAM SUNDOR To: TOM WRONA Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 8997 (HAL ETC.) Thanks for your message. Any supplier should have cheap TENS but I shall look around for you. Having lost my job with the defense industry, I am going to earn an honest living making or clibrating or softwaring the HAL kits. I have a 4 channel unit going now and plan to get more going. Also it does biofeedback now, select the channel and amplitude, and get a corresponding tone. I am going to sell this for $ 19. Is that a fair price or too cheap? I also have electrodes, made out of pure silver, which solve the problem of paste and stuff since they use salt water and are monopolar. Monopolar is far more accurate than the bipolar that the industry, knot knowing about signal processing for psychology or medicine, recommends. Kind of scary being on my own but my conscience is clear. The hemi-sync stuff is fine, but I prefer the HAL appraoch since you do this to yourself instead of it being done to you. In other words, you learn and your brain learns to generate certain types of alpha production. If interested, contact me here or at home: Tel. 215-657-0991 or write to me at 3980 Commerce Ave., Suite Twenty-three, Willow Grove, PA 19090. Oh, I found I could calibrate the HAL unit so that the numbers at the top of the screen are actual microvolts instead of heuristics. It is a great kit and can be made to do professional tricks at a fraction of a professional unit. In fact, I can make it do more than most EEG biofeedback units that cost thousands and more thousands of dollars. I am starting to sound like a marketeer? Adam Msg#: 7868 *PROJECTS* 09/26/88 14:55:44 From: ADAM SUNDOR To: ROBERT WELKER (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 3884 (HAL) I built the HAL kit, and would like to know if anyone has tried to put in 4 channels? I think that helps the kit get to its potential. I shall have to wait until Microsoft gets its Quick Basic act together and mails me the "Maintenance" upgrade to Quick Basic 4.0, as Jeff suggested. I was put in the unusual position of having to pay for them to send me Quick Basic 3.1 because that does work and wqas was used to put together the BIO.EXE Frustrating, not being able to play with the HAL from a software end and the ensuing problem of screen design. I wonder if HAL could be put on an add-in board, a modem for your brain? Msg#: 8174 *PROJECTS* 10/07/88 03:34:31 From: ROBERT WELKER To: ADAM SUNDOR (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 7868 (HAL) Adam, I *wish* I'd the time recently to go ahead and buy (and build) the HAL kit, but for the last couple of months work has kept me more than busy. Hopefully it'll be letting up soon, and I can get on to more fun projects. BTW - I just purchased QBv4.0, and am intending on writing some comm stuff with it, but I hear there are a lot of bugs in this respect. Have you had any problems with comm port routines? Bob Msg#: 9908 *PROJECTS* 11/10/88 13:29:57 From: ADAM SUNDOR To: ROBERT WELKER Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 8174 (HAL) Thanks for your message. There problems with 4.0. Since I was liad off in my defense industry job, I have decided to earn an honest living and am now going to build, calibrate, and market the HAL as professional units. Would you be interested in buying the software, first version, which activates all 4 channels on the kit and permits having the computer give biofeedback signals based on amplitude and frequency? I also am going to market electrodes which use salt water and are very easy to use and far, far more accurate than the bipolar placements that HAL recommends and the rest of the industry - the psychologists and medicine men know so little about signal processing and physics, very very unfortunately - but maybe fortunately for me. Do you think this is a good idea? Can I ask what is a fair price for the software to do the first round of tricks, that is, put four channels up on the screen and give actual feedback via the computer's sound generator? I also am going to offer calibration service, that is, send me your kit and I will calibrate it so that the actual numbers appearing on the computer screen are micrvolts and not heuristics. Come to think of it, do you want me also to build the kit? Would $ 19 be a fair price for the first version of the software? Let me know what you think. Msg#: 7869 *PROJECTS* 09/26/88 15:05:57 From: ADAM SUNDOR To: TOM MIGNONE Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 5895 (HAL) That sound really interesting. What happened? Where you able to change the statistically decaying particles from random to non-random through thought control or some type of Sheldrake approach. Analgous to the physics problem is it Bell's experiment, of a particle acting like a particle if you wanted it to be a particle. Oops, that was Wheeler's experiment. Bell's was action at a distance or particles acting FASTER than the speed of light. That would change some basic concepts of the universe? Even change the universe? Adam Msg#: 7878 *PROJECTS* 09/27/88 13:34:15 From: JOHN ROTHROCK To: ED NISLEY (Rcvd) Subj: IMAGEWISE DIGITIZER We're trying to synchronize the ImageWise Digitizer with an EG&G strobe light in order to grab images of fuel spray droplets for later analysis. Our immediate problem is how to get the strobe and the camera and the digitizer together so we get a good, well-illuminated frame. We can't find in the circuitry when the digitizer starts at the top of the frame. We suspect the signal we need may not be present as an external signal, but only in the software. There appears to be a contradiction between the text of the June 87 BYTE article and the flowchart shown on page 135 as to how things are sequenced. Could you advise us as how best to proceed? Thank you for your time. Msg#: 7891 *PROJECTS* 09/28/88 09:24:12 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: JOHN ROTHROCK Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 7878 (IMAGEWISE DIGITIZER) I'm going to forward your message to Ed Nisley since he did the software for the ImageWise. I could take a guess at which signal would be appropriate for syncing a strobe, but I'm sure he'll have some ideas. Msg#: 7893 *PROJECTS* 09/28/88 09:34:44 From: RON WILSON To: JOHN ROTHROCK Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 7878 (IMAGEWISE DIGITIZER) Not only do you need to synchronize with the ImageWise, you will also need to synchronize with the CCD imager {{i{_r%{i_;?{ control circuit to insure that the CCD chip is in active mode when you strobe the scene being "frozen." . . If your not using a CCD camera, it may not be possible to get an evenly illuminated picture. Msg#: 8093 *PROJECTS* 10/05/88 18:40:11 From: ED NISLEY To: JOHN ROTHROCK Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 7878 (IMAGEWISE DIGITIZER) One of the troubles with replacing logic with code is that it's tough to solder a wire onto a line of code. Sorry about that... Turns out that there are two signals you could use to get roughly what you want. The ADC enable line goes active after the vertical sync and blanking delay when the code starts searching for the correct line. The RAM enable line will go active when the right line shows up. We put that in to support 8K buffers, of which I think exactly zero have been used. Seemed like a good idea at the time. If you trigger from the ADC enable line you may lose the first few lines due to lag in your flash circuit, but it should be close. With a little more circuitry you could trigger from the incoming XON, delay for 70 ms, wait for the vertical sync, and then fire it. Seems like a lot of effort to duplicate a few lines of code, but there aren't any pins left over! The final authority in any dispute between code and flowcharts is the code, which is why I've been politely twisting Steve's arm about printing code instead of charts. At least you get the straight dope at the time the article went to press... The flowchart does leaves out a few niceties. First, you need to get an XOFF before the picture goes out. Then there's 64K cycles of delay (about 71 milliseconds) to allow the receiver to get ready for the data. Then comes the frame sync and the desperate search for new video lines. Finally, you get a torrent of line syncs and data, ended with an ending sync byte. Does that match up with what you think you see? Msg#: 7960 *PROJECTS* 09/30/88 20:16:47 From: BRUCE WEBB To: RALPH STIRLING (Rcvd) Subj: ALL PURPOSE 8031 BOARD MAKE A DEAL WITH YOU -- AS MY CONTRIBUTION TO HIGHER EDUCATION, I'LL SEND YOU A BLANK BOARD AND SOME INFO FOR NOTHIN' -- IF YOU'LL LET ME KNOW WHAT YOU PLAN TO DO AND HOW IT WORKS OUT. I THINK THE 8051 FAMILY IS A GREAT WAY TO GET CONTROL AND FEEDBACK FOR ALL KINDS OF 'STUFF'. JUST LEAVE YOUR ADDRESS AND A LITTLE INFORMATION ABOUT YOUR PROJECT AND I'LL SEND IT ALONG. IF YOU HAVE A LONG MESSAGE (SCHEMATICS & THE LIKE) SEND IT IN THE MAIL TO: BRUCE WEBB, 10125 S. ROESBORO RD, SANDY, UT 84092 GOOD LUCK -- BRUCE Msg#: 8019 *PROJECTS* 10/04/88 12:07:45 From: JOEL DAVIDSON To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: DDT-51 Steve- Do you have any plans to make a PC board available for the DDT-51? If so, could you give us some sort of time frame for when it might be available. Thanks, Joel Msg#: 8023 *PROJECTS* 10/04/88 12:26:12 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: JOEL DAVIDSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 8019 (DDT-51) Right now there are no plans for making a PC board for the DDT-51. If interest keeps up, however, that could change. If we do make one, you'll find out about it either here or in Circuit Cellar INK. Msg#: 8094 *PROJECTS* 10/05/88 18:42:35 From: ED NISLEY To: JOEL DAVIDSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 8019 (DDT-51) If you look real closely, you'll see that the "PC board" is actually a phenolic Radio Shuck perfboard. What you can't see is the furball wiring hidden underneath. Every now and then we're amazed at how you can get a camera to tell just the truth that's needed... Msg#: 8140 *PROJECTS* 10/06/88 12:23:23 From: JOEL DAVIDSON To: ED NISLEY (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 8094 (DDT-51) Ed- Well, what do you know. My compliments to the photographer! I guess I'll just have to get in the mood for a little wire wrapping session. Thanks for the info. Msg#: 8151 *PROJECTS* 10/06/88 20:44:25 From: ED NISLEY To: JOEL DAVIDSON Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 8140 (DDT-51) Or, grit your teeth, point to point soldering. Yuck. Msg#: 8047 *PROJECTS* 10/04/88 19:20:27 From: HARRY LEW To: ALL Subj: X-10 INTERFACE I'M TRYING TO FIND A PROTOCOL THAT ALLOWS GREATER DATA THROUGHPUT USING THE X-10 MODEM TRANSMISSION SCHEME. THE SCHEME NEED ONLY HAVE ERROR DETECTION, NOT ERROR CORRECTION. ANY IDEAS? Msg#: 8077 *PROJECTS* 10/05/88 10:51:39 From: RON WILSON To: HARRY LEW (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 8047 (X-10 INTERFACE) If you mean like a line carrier modem, their was an article in a very recent issue of either Radio Electronics or Hands On Electrinics (or one of the others) on building such units for up to 9600 buad. Msg#: 8105 *PROJECTS* 10/05/88 19:50:49 From: BRUCE MEISSNER To: ALL Subj: LASER WRITING The address for General Scanning Inc. is 500 Arsenal St., Watertown, MA 02171, (617) 924-1010. They make galvanometers that are used in barcode reading equipment. Msg#: 8107 *PROJECTS* 10/05/88 21:42:04 From: GIL QUIZON To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: Z8 BOARD I just put together a Z8 board from your article in Byte. I would like to know if a manual is still available from you. Also, I'm thinking of doing your Term-Mite next but cannot find the NS455 chip. Any sources? Msg#: 8128 *PROJECTS* 10/06/88 08:38:27 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: GIL QUIZON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 8107 (Z8 BOARD) Call Micromint and ask for the BCC11 manual. The BCC11 isn't exactly the same as the original article since it uses static RAM and decodes the I/O space better, but it should be close enough to be useful. Make sure you get the Z8 BASIC/Debug manual as well. I don't know what to suggest for an NS455 source. We haven't had many people looking for it, so they're finding it somewhere. Have you tried all the normal sources (JDR, Digi-Key, Jameco)? Msg#: 8645 *PROJECTS* 10/16/88 12:47:26 From: STEVE CIARCIA To: GIL QUIZON Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 8128 (Z8 BOARD) If you are building the original BCC01 I have some 6132 chips if you need them (I recommend building the BCC11 circuit instead, however). Be careful, that the power connections in the original article were wrong for the 1488/1489 chips (correct schematic in the Circuit Cellar books). Also I believe Micromint sells the NS405 chip (that's the one you really want). Order it as a replacement processor for a termite. --Steve Msg#: 8138 *PROJECTS* 10/06/88 11:49:05 From: JAMES GADSBY To: KEN DAVIDSON (Rcvd) Subj: IMAGEWISE TELMOS 1852 OUTPUT WHAT IS THE CORRECT OUTPUT LEVEL FROM THE IMAGEWISE TML 1852 CHIP INTO A 75 ohm LOAD? I SEE 120 mV P-P WITH A SCOPE ON THE TEST PATTERN AT POWER UP. THE 1.2 VOLT BIAS AND 5 VOLT POWER IS CORRECT. ALL RESISTORS VALUES ARE CORRECT. ANY IDEAS?. WORKS OK THROUGH A VCR AS THE VCR MUST PROVIDE SOME KIND OF AGC ON THE VIDEO SIGNAL, BUT THE IMAGEWISE WONT DRIVE A B&W TV SECURITY MONITOR SET FOR 75 ohms. THANKS FOR YOUR HELP! Msg#: 8152 *PROJECTS* 10/06/88 20:48:58 From: ED NISLEY To: JAMES GADSBY (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 8138 (IMAGEWISE TELMOS 1852 OUTPUT) Hmm... it ought to be about 1 volt peak to peak. Remember that the 1.2 volt reference is going to be 1.2 volts no matter what, because it's the current drawn from the pin that counts. Sounds like you've got the pot set all the way the wrong direction. Measure the actual resistance from that pin and check to make sure you don't have an open circuit somewhere. Msg#: 8165 *PROJECTS* 10/06/88 22:32:15 From: EDWARD WELLER To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: VOICE REC. AND VLSI DESIGN Steve, I recently put together a commercially available voice recognition system for a quadrepligic. I was really disappointed with the quality of the product and the support they gave when I needed help. The software that ran it was chuck full of bugs that caused the computer to lock up. For a quadreplegic, a turnkey system is needed. For this reason, I've decided to build my own. I've read through some of your past articles on voice recognition and I found the board based on the SP1000 very interesting. However, I am presently in a VLSI design class and have the chance to design my own chip using a silicon compiler and 1 micron technology. I would like to design a chip especially for speaker dependent voice recognition. I haven't had any digital signal processing classes and don't know were to begin. I know that all of the A to D process will have to be external to the chip. My problem is how do I convert the sample data into the data needed to perform the voice recognition and is this feable for a chip design? As for the recognition, I wrote a program that uses a neural network simulation (Backprop) to do the pattern matching and it worked fine. Woops got a two minute warning! bye Msg#: 8178 *PROJECTS* 10/07/88 07:46:45 From: BOB PADDOCK To: EDWARD WELLER Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 8165 (VOICE REC. AND VLSI DESIGN) Maybe we could get to getther. I've been toying with the idea of voice recognition for a long time. What you want to look at for the A/D-D/A part are some parts from a company called Extrema System Int. (Spelling?), they go by "XSI". I'll get there address for you (I don't have it here). The part I could never get a good grip on was the neural network. How many patterns can your system handle, and can it do it in real time (or at least close to real time)? The XSI parts work on a modified form of infinent clipping. The basic stages of Extrma processing are feed the audio into a low pass filter, then mix the resulting audio with 5 MHz Gaussen Noise (Yes, that's correct we are ADDING noise to the signal!) feed this mess into a differentiator, then a clipper. You how have a signal in the time domain if that is what you want. If you want to go back to anlog you feed the clipper into an integrator. The output of the integrator is now a replica of the signal input, but it has all but the useful context info removed. Try feeding this into your neural network. I found the address here after all: Extrema Systems International Cortp. 10805 Parkridge Blvd, Reston, VA 22091 (703) 648-3181. See if your school lib. has Electronic Design August 6, 1987 "Signal-proces sing technique takes voice coding to extremes" by Diane Tunick pg 67 & 68. Now a question for Steve or Curt, sence XSI has a patten on this method of data reduction, does that mean we can't make an Ink artical out of it? I've allways been a nonconformest, so adding noise to a signal to get rid of noise I just love, besides it seems to work...... Msg#: 8184 *PROJECTS* 10/07/88 09:25:46 From: RON WILSON To: EDWARD WELLER Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 8165 (VOICE REC. AND VLSI DESIGN) Most interesting. I've done some experimentation with audio decomposition for speach recognition purposes. If you wish, I can mail or fax you diagrams. I don't think there would be any problems implementing the filters digitally. Msg#: 8210 *PROJECTS* 10/07/88 18:31:54 From: ALEXANDER SCHNEIDER To: BOB PADDOCK (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 8178 (VOICE REC. AND VLSI DESIGN) You say it has all but the context info removed. How does that come from this process? Alex Msg#: 8296 *PROJECTS* 10/10/88 07:18:07 From: BOB PADDOCK To: ALEXANDER SCHNEIDER (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 8210 (VOICE REC. AND VLSI DESIGN) In this case the context info is the Extrma, or Mina and Maxa (the point at which a Sine Wave changes direction). The theory is that this is the only thing that the Ear needed to reconstruct an intelagble signal, or at least the minimum amount of info that some think can be precived from and still convay meaning. What info you have lost in this process is amplatude info, to some extent, and most of the frequency spectrem that does not contain intelagence. Keep in mind that the Ear does need other info (like frequency spectrem) if it is lisenting to music, ect.. But we are only intrested in feature extraction of intelagble speach. Msg#: 8317 *PROJECTS* 10/10/88 16:42:29 From: ALEXANDER SCHNEIDER To: BOB PADDOCK (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 8296 (VOICE REC. AND VLSI DESIGN) So the information is extracted simply from the Mina and Maxa? Has there been much success with this method? Alex Msg#: 8372 *PROJECTS* 10/11/88 12:20:13 From: BOB PADDOCK To: ALEXANDER SCHNEIDER (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 8317 (VOICE REC. AND VLSI DESIGN) According to the app. Eng. at XSI the milatary just loves it for noise cansalation, and data reduction, but he didn't know of any one doing speach rec. with it the last time I talked to him. Actualy this method is quite old (about 1940) but it took XSI to get in IC form in about 1986. Msg#: 8379 *PROJECTS* 10/11/88 13:23:47 From: RON WILSON To: BOB PADDOCK (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 8296 (VOICE REC. AND VLSI DESIGN) What about languages like Japanise that make of use of changing frequency spectra to modify the meanings of "words"? Msg#: 8401 *PROJECTS* 10/12/88 07:25:41 From: BOB PADDOCK To: RON WILSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 8379 (VOICE REC. AND VLSI DESIGN) yn)A5nJ \L6H^n;SC2Cj`brAUZSt, --21-! A8 Vss!-20-- <--GND * AHI9 --> --22-! A9 !-19-- * AHI10--> --23-! A10 !-18-- * AHI11--> --24-! A11 *RD!-17-- <--*RD * AHI12--> --25-! A12 *WR!-16-- <--*WR * AHI13--> --26-! A13 T1!-15-- <--8031 HALTED * AHI14--> --27-! A14 !-14-- * AHI15--> --28-! A15 *INT1!-13-- <--*IRQ * *PS--> --29-! *PSEN !-12-- * ALE--> --30-! ALE !-11-- * --31-! !-10-- * D7--> --32-! AD7 RST!- 9-- <--RESET 8031 * D6--> --33-! AD6 !- 8-- * D5--> --34-! AD5 !- 7-- * D4--> --35-! AD4 !- 6-- * D3--> --36-! AD3 !- 5-- * D2--> --37-! AD2 !- 4-- * D1--> --38-! AD1 !- 3-- * D0--> --39-! AD0 !- 2-- * --40-! !- 1-- * ! ! * --------------- * * * B. I enjoy CCInk and the BBS. Yall are doing good work! * * C. Could you help me get in touch with CCInk subscribers in the * Houston\Dallas areas? I would like to establish a local support * network for those working on various CCInk projects. Msg#: 8702 *PROJECTS* 10/17/88 09:10:58 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: LARRY SIMS (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 8644 (DDT-51) I'm forwarding your message to Ed Nisley, who is the resident DDT-51 expert. He should be able to help with the wiring. The best way to get in touch with other INK readers is with a public message here. True, only a small percentage of readers call here, but it's better than nothing. Msg#: 8815 *PROJECTS* 10/18/88 22:23:45 From: ED NISLEY To: LARRY SIMS (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 8644 (DDT-51) Other than being upside down, it looks OK to me... but it depends on whether you're looking at the chip from the top or the bottom, I guess. Thanks for the good words... always glad to hear from someone who's working hard & doing swell! Msg#: 8864 *PROJECTS* 10/19/88 22:24:57 From: LARRY SIMS To: ED NISLEY (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 8815 (DDT-51) I WAS LOOKING AT THE 8031 FROM THE TOPSIDE. Msg#: 8887 *PROJECTS* 10/20/88 14:14:47 From: ED NISLEY To: LARRY SIMS (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 8864 (DDT-51) Ah, but you were standing on your head! Msg#: 8691 *PROJECTS* 10/17/88 04:59:40 From: JAMES GADSBY To: ED NISLEY (Rcvd) Subj: IMAGEWISE TELMOS 1852 OUTPUT KEN, THANKS FOR YOUR SUGGESTIONS ON MY PROBLEM WITH LOW VIDEO OUTPUT FROM THE TELMOS 1852. I DON'T HAVE A SPEC SHEET, COULD YOU PLEASE TELL ME WHAT THE PERMISSIBLE CURRENT RANGE IS FOR THE 1.2 VOLT BIAS PIN ON THE '1852 ? THIS MAY BE MY PROBLEM SINCE I SUBSITUTED A 10-TURN POT (5K OHM) FOR THE VIDEO LEVEL ADJUSTMENT. THANKS! Msg#: 8699 *PROJECTS* 10/17/88 08:45:49 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: JAMES GADSBY (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 8691 (IMAGEWISE TELMOS 1852 OUTPUT) Ed is the one who responded to your message. I've forwarded your latest message to him since he's been eating and sleeping with the 1852 lately. Msg#: 8816 *PROJECTS* 10/18/88 22:24:33 From: ED NISLEY To: JAMES GADSBY (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 8691 (IMAGEWISE TELMOS 1852 OUTPUT) You may have fried your DAC... The current should be around 190 microamps for a single 75 ohm termination and around 400 uA for two terminations. Your 5K pot will draw at least 250 microamps, which is too much for a single termination. A double termination should need about 3K of resistance. You should ALWAYS have a series resistor in line with an adjustment pot coming from a voltage source. It's far too easy to twist the thing a little too far and crisp the IC by shorting the pin to ground, which is what you may have done. You do have a termination of some sort across the output, right? The output is a current, so if there's no resistance to develop a voltage, the output may well look funny. Also, there are two output pins that should be connected together for normal operation. Msg#: 8727 *PROJECTS* 10/17/88 17:25:12 From: BOB STOUT To: ALL Subj: HELP Does anyone have any info on Intel's MCS-51 macro assembler utility called RL51? My manual does not cover how to invoke this linker with multiple modules. Any help would be appreciated. Msg#: 8730 *PROJECTS* 10/17/88 18:27:36 From: PETER MELLO To: BOB STOUT (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 8727 (HELP) bob , I've never used it but I'll take a look and get back to you. By the way , I modified the KERNEL code from the DDT-51 prodject to asmemble on the intel asmembler if your interested in the changes I can check on that too. pete Msg#: 8827 *PROJECTS* 10/19/88 01:58:39 From: JAMES GADSBY To: ED NISLEY (Rcvd) Subj: IMAGEWISE TELMOS 1852 LOW OUTPUT THANKS FOR THE INFO ON THE CURRENT THROUGH THE 1.2 VOLT BIAS PIN. WILL CHECK MINE. I BOUGHT ONE OF THE CCC KITS AND THE ONLY THING I SUBSTITUTED WAS A 10-TURN POT FOR THE 3/4-TURN POT SPECIFIED. THE SERIES RESISTANCE IS STILL THERE. DOES THE 75 OHM RESISTOR ON THE BOARD COUNT AS ONE OF THE TWO PERMISSIBLE 75 OHM LOADS ? (i.e. WITH THE 75 OHM RESISTOR ACROSS THE OUTPUT ON THE BOARD AND ONE 75 OHM LOAD ACROSS THE OUTPUT RCA JACK, SHOULD I ADJUST FOR 190 uA OR 400uA ?) ... THANKS AGAIN FOR ALL YOUR HELP ON THIS ONE. Msg#: 8831 *PROJECTS* 10/19/88 07:23:14 From: ED NISLEY To: JAMES GADSBY (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 8827 (IMAGEWISE TELMOS 1852 LOW OUTPUT) So far, so good. The 75 ohm load on the board is one termination; anything else is additional. You should get good video voltages with nothing else connected at the RCA jack. From what you'd said I thought you had just the pot on the pin... whew! Of course, that means there's something else wrong... Msg#: 8892 *PROJECTS* 10/20/88 19:55:27 From: PETER MELLO To: BOB STOUT (Rcvd) Subj: HELP ON RL51 Bob I'm not sure this is what you need but try invoking RL51 as : RL51 TO . Where the is a list of filenames seperated by commas. . example: RL51 a:samp1.obj , a:samp2.obj , a:samp3.obj TO b:samp.abs . Also, if the invocation line is to long to fit on one line, use the ampersand (&) before you enter line terminator ( ie ENTER key ) and comtinue on the next line. Anymore questions, or if somethings not clear , ask again !!! pete. Msg#: 8912 *PROJECTS* 10/21/88 04:41:54 From: RUSSELL MCFALL To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: SONAR AND HANDICAP DEAR STEVE, I AM A PHYSICIAN INV RADIOLOGY AND BIOMEDICAL ENGINEERING. i HAVE FOLLOWED YOUR ARTICALS AND HAVE PURCHASED ALL YOUR BOOKS TO DATE. I AM INTERESTED IN MAKING AND MANUFACTURING DEVICES THAT HELP PEOPLE WHO ARE DISABLED AS MY WIFE HAS MULTIPLE SCULROSIS. WE JUST BOUGHT A "ELECTRIC SCOOTER" AND I AM IN THE PROCESS OF BUILDING A " SMART WHEEL CHAIR " ON BOARD COMPUTER FOR IT USING THE SONAR RANGER AS ONE OF THE PERIPHERALS. PERHAPS YOU COULD STEER ME IN THE RIGHT DIRECTION ON HOW TO INCREASE THE SCAN RATE OF THE RANGER AND ALSO SUGGEST SOME BASIC IDEAS ON HOW MY SYSTEM CAN MOVE AND AVIOD OBSTICALS. Msg#: 8919 *PROJECTS* 10/21/88 10:17:13 From: STEVE CIARCIA To: RUSSELL MCFALL Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 8912 (SONAR AND HANDICAP) Increase the scan rate? You control the scan rate now by toggling the INIT line. Just do it at a higher frequency. Finally, moving and avoiding obstacles sounds like a software problem and I'll have to beg off that one. Fortunately, there are many others around here who can help. --Steve Msg#: 8934 *PROJECTS* 10/21/88 16:39:48 From: RICHARD ANDREWS To: RUSSELL MCFALL Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 8912 (SONAR AND HANDICAP) . You might also want to check out the Volunteers for Medical Engineering. They are based out of Baltimore (affiliated wit Johns Hopkins) but there are local groups springing up in several cities around the country. The group is volunteer and they design or modify equipment to aid the disabled. The head of the group is John Staehlin. Sorry but I don't have their number handy. Msg#: 8916 *PROJECTS* 10/21/88 08:48:20 From: BOB STOUT To: PETER MELLO (Rcvd) Subj: 8031 Peter, the version I have of ASM-51 is 3.00 I believe. I'm currently working on a stepper motor controller that I can interface with any computer w/rs232. I am employing HP/DMPL type commands. I do have a question on RL51: Any idea what a "bad Fixup" error is? I forget the actual error number. At any rate I wrote to Intel for the manual on the utilities covering RL51 and LIB51 so I should be in good shape. What have you done with the 8051 family? I think it's a great controller, especially after spending a couple years working with the 8048 family. Msg#: 8926 *PROJECTS* 10/21/88 12:46:12 From: WILLIE RIVERS To: KEN DAVIDSON (Rcvd) Subj: SB180 Steve I own a SB180 with a GT180 attached,I would like to add an expansion board with a couple of 8255's on it to the system. I don't have a Comm-180 . Whats the easiest way to add these devices that won't bother my GT180 and which expansion lines should I use. Thanks Willie Msg#: 9056 *PROJECTS* 10/24/88 09:54:49 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: WILLIE RIVERS (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 8926 (SB180) As long as you fully decode the port addresses, you can use either J1 or J2 to plug into. The GT180 uses eight port addresses that are jumper selectable for E0-E7, E8-EF, F0-F7, or F8-FF. You can use any ports not in the range that the GT180 is trying to use. Other than that, you can use any of the lines on the expansion connector for your board. Just be sure to buffer the data lines with a 74LS245. Also be very careful of how you generate WR\ for the 8255. Run WR\ from the SB180 through an inverter to one input of a 74LS00. Run E into the other input. Then use the output as a write strobe into the 8255. If you connect WR\ directly to the 8255, you'll have timing problems. Msg#: 9150 *PROJECTS* 10/25/88 12:39:43 From: WILLIE RIVERS To: KEN DAVIDSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 9056 (SB180) Thanks Ken We'll just have to try that Willie Msg#: 8935 *PROJECTS* 10/21/88 17:49:04 From: LARRY KAYSER To: ALL Subj: BCC180 DATA BUSS, HELP I am trying to add a 74LS245 bidirectional data buffer on several periferal cards on a BCC180. Things have not been going well. I have been trying to read all back issues of BYTE to find a project that decoded the DATA BUSS, but I haven't found one yet. So far I have been trying to use the BARR DS and a BARR CS (brought from the BCC180 I/O decoding via unused BUSS pins. Using both the 74LS245 direction control input and the Enable input I am unable to make it go. I do not have access to the 64180 timing diagrams. My desire is to let all data enter the boards from the BUSS and only turn on the peripheral cards when they have a BARR DS and a BARR CS for that particular board. To get buy in the interim I have just jumpered the in and outs of the 245 with 8 bits of wire, but that limits me to one peripheral board at a time. The BARR AS decode works fine with a 74LS373 or a 74LS374 and an inverter on BARR AS. Any help will be greatly appreciated... Thank You, Larry Kayser Msg#: 8969 *PROJECTS* 10/22/88 13:28:33 From: STEVE CIARCIA To: LARRY KAYSER (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 8935 (BCC180 DATA BUSS, HELP) In the last couple issues of CC INK a BCC-bus interface has been printed. This is the schematic for the BCC-bus prototyping card. That might be a good start. --Steve Msg#: 9058 *PROJECTS* 10/24/88 10:14:07 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: LARRY KAYSER Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 8935 (BCC180 DATA BUSS, HELP) The proper way to hook up the '245 is to ground the enable input, then run DS\, RD\, and CS\ (where CS\ is the active-low board select) into a three-input OR gate and use the output into the direction input of the '245. This assumes the BCC bus is connected to the A side and the rest of the board to the B side. You have to incorporate RD\ into direction determination in all cases. You should also use AS\ as an active-high signal along with address lines to generate the board enable (CS\ above). AS\ goes from low to high to strobe the address into the on-board latch, then stays high until the start of the next instruction cycle. It just provides an extra level of board selection to prevent potential glitches. By the way, you can't use the unused bus pins and expect to stay 100% compatible with future BCC bus designs. The proper way to decode the board is to put something like a 74LS138 plus a few discrete gates on the peripheral board and decode a small range of addresses (a block of 256 ports is fine). Msg#: 8943 *PROJECTS* 10/21/88 22:14:13 From: DAVE SCOTTE To: ANYONE Subj: SUPERCOMPUTER Hello, fellow users. I'm calling from Branford Connecticut and this is costing me so I want to ask this question (even though it has probably been mentioned before, I just don't want to search through 1000 messages...) Where are the boards available to build the parallel computer that was mentioned it last months issue of BYTE ? I'm having my school sponsor me in building a parallel computer, and I'd like to get more technical info..... ... if you can help, please leave me e-mail (it would take me forever to find the post....) Thanx.... Dave Scotte... Msg#: 8970 *PROJECTS* 10/22/88 13:31:40 From: STEVE CIARCIA To: DAVE SCOTTE (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 8943 (SUPERCOMPUTER) Sorry, Dave, you get to wire this one yourself. Since I was leaving BYTE and there would be no followup there (it will be in CC INK instead), we could not justify the cost. Anyone want to make a board? --Steve Msg#: 8987 *PROJECTS* 10/22/88 23:38:50 From: GARY MARSHALL To: JEFF BACHIOCHI (Rcvd) Subj: IC TESTER I have built the IC TESTER Project and cannot get it to work in stand alone mode. An attempt to use it in stand alone mode yeilds a display of twenty blocks ( Every cell 'ON' ) across on the top line of the LCD display. The unit works fine in terminal or PC modes. I have tried an- other LCD display module only to get the same results. The thing that is really confusing is that the 8031 port used to communicate with the dis- play is the same one used to read the dip switches for the baud rate and the front panel push buttons, both of which work properly. If anyone may have a suggestion or has fixed this problem please leave me a message. Thank You, Gary Marshall Msg#: 9051 *PROJECTS* 10/24/88 09:19:20 From: JEFF BACHIOCHI To: GARY MARSHALL (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 8987 (IC TESTER) . Gary, . If you are using VER 1.0 of the CIRCUIT CELLAR MASTER CONTROLLER, you can can sit back, sigh, and feel immediately relieved. A SOFTWARE BUG crept into this version and was exterminated in the release Ver 1.10. . If this is the case, claim your prize by dowmloading the correct version here in the PROJECT section. . If not, then check the control lines (pins 12, 13, 14 & 15 on the 8031) for shorts or opens. These are the lines which would cause improper communication between the processor and the LCD. The LS244 may not be tri-stating or the LCD control signals may not be toggling correctly to produce the proper write sequences to the LCD. . Hope this helps out! . jeff Msg#: 9378 *PROJECTS* 10/29/88 19:40:23 From: GARY MARSHALL To: JEFF BACHIOCHI (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 9051 (IC TESTER) JEFF, Thank you for your comments on the tester. I have downloaded a different version a while back which did not help. I am not sure if it is the same as the one currently listed. I will download it and give it a try . If it doesn't help I will try your other suggestions. Once again thanks and I'll let you know. Gary C. Marshall Msg#: 9009 *PROJECTS* 10/23/88 10:47:07 From: DOUG BUHRMAN To: RUSS LINDGREN Subj: 10 MHZ DIGITIZING BOARD Hi Russell: I enjoyed your article on the a/d card for the PC. Where does one get the parts for this kind of project? I have been through JDR and Jameco catalogs and could not find anything like what you listed. Could you help me out? Thanks. Doug Buhrman, Lincoln, NE Msg#: 9063 *PROJECTS* 10/24/88 10:58:04 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: DOUG BUHRMAN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 9009 (10 MHZ DIGITIZING BOARD) I was able to find all but two of the chips from the article in the latest Digi-Key catalog, and they may actually have those two but not list them. The absolute minimum you should have for catalogs is JDR, Digi-Key, and Jameco. You can reach Digi-Key at (800) 344-4539 or (218) 681-6674. Msg#: 9017 *PROJECTS* 10/23/88 13:51:30 From: LARRY KAYSER To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: NOT IN BYTE Thanks Steve, I will look it up. Any hope for a new contract with BYTE? Sure hope this does not end, after some review this is why (your articles) is largely why I buy the magazine. Guess it is time to subscribe to your magazine. Thanks again. Larry Msg#: 9076 *PROJECTS* 10/24/88 14:32:09 From: STEVE CIARCIA To: LARRY KAYSER Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 9017 (NOT IN BYTE) No, there is no new contract with BYTE. In fact, they now consider Circuit Cellar INK to be a competitor. --Steve Msg#: 9099 *PROJECTS* 10/24/88 20:31:36 From: ED WELLER To: LARRY KAYSER Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 9017 (NOT IN BYTE) Just when I got my first subscription to BYTE, the cancel the only article worth reading. And what's worse is that I got a three year subscription! Msg#: 9112 *PROJECTS* 10/25/88 00:02:43 From: KEITH TUCHOLSKI To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 9076 (NOT IN BYTE) CONGRATULATIONS. NICE TO HEAR THAT YOU ARE ALLREADYBEING NOTICED. Msg#: 9127 *PROJECTS* 10/25/88 08:08:01 From: BOB PADDOCK To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 9076 (NOT IN BYTE) How can Byte consider Ink competion, if Byte doesn't supply what we (the formaly loyal Byte subscribers) want to see, then how can they clame to be competing? Will we ever know how many subscribers Byte lost because of thier blind "Me Too" addatude? Msg#: 9133 *PROJECTS* 10/25/88 09:17:07 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: BOB PADDOCK (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 9127 (NOT IN BYTE) I know what you mean. BYTE of 8 years ago would be direct competition, but it's PC Magazine they're taking square aim at these days. They're getting real paranoid up there. Nothing they do is a surprise anymore. Msg#: 9141 *PROJECTS* 10/25/88 10:14:08 From: STEVE CIARCIA To: BOB PADDOCK (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 9127 (NOT IN BYTE) Probably not. BYTE refused a paid ad for Circuit Cellar INK this week and all contracts for their columnists now carry a stipulation that they can't write for CC INK. Worse than that, BYTE pulled my good bye message in my December article. I am not allowed to say I am gone and they don't intend too. I guess they expect that you are too ignorant to notice. --Steve Msg#: 9142 *PROJECTS* 10/25/88 10:17:44 From: STEVE CIARCIA To: KEITH TUCHOLSKI (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 9112 (NOT IN BYTE) Oh yeah, one more thing to chuckle about. I got a contract today from McGraw-Hill books for Circuit Cellar Volumn VII. They are also interested in CC INK materials. I guess it is the old right and left hand stuff again. --Steve Msg#: 9143 *PROJECTS* 10/25/88 10:26:57 From: STEVE CIARCIA To: BOB PADDOCK (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 9127 (NOT IN BYTE) Actually, Bob, I think the whole problem is personal. BYTE management is parenoid what I might be capable of doing (I don't know where they got that idea but parenoid people are like that) and a preemptive shot at me is their idea of damage control I guess. It probably also has shocked them that I have reassembled the team that started BYTE to do CC INK :-) --Steve Msg#: 9145 *PROJECTS* 10/25/88 12:16:32 From: BOB PADDOCK To: KEN DAVIDSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 9133 (NOT IN BYTE) If it is PC Magazine their going after why would they be paranoid? Unless of cource the relize the errors of their ways, but are to stubern to admit it.... Msg#: 9147 *PROJECTS* 10/25/88 12:22:45 From: BOB PADDOCK To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 9141 (NOT IN BYTE) I just responded to a survay that Byte sent me, it was nice to get paid a whole dollar, to tell them that their magazine wasn't worth reading any more. My ESP must be getting better, I told them I felt insulted, they they thought they could drop you, with out even telling us (the Byte Readers), and hope that we wouldn't notice. All of the question on the survae were about what kind of stuff I (or my company) was planing to buy. Not once did they ask me what I wanted to see in the magazine. Msg#: 9149 *PROJECTS* 10/25/88 12:28:01 From: BOB PADDOCK To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 9143 (NOT IN BYTE) So how did you get Caral Helmers (now with SENSORS) and Wanye Green (with '73', Digital Audio, and who knows what else) back? Or did you not mean it quite that litteraly? Msg#: 9153 *PROJECTS* 10/25/88 13:25:07 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: BOB PADDOCK (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 9147 (NOT IN BYTE) That was probably just a marketing survey and not an editorial survey. My guess is your editorial comments will end up in the trash. There was a big blow-up on BIX a while back because the marketing surveys were supposedly casting a foreshadow of things to come editorially. The editorial staff tried to assure everyone to the contrary. So far it looks like marketing was right. Msg#: 9154 *PROJECTS* 10/25/88 13:28:07 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: BOB PADDOCK (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 9149 (NOT IN BYTE) It might be fun to have Carl Helmers, but forget Wayne. We run a clean ship here. If you ever get a chance to read a book called "Run, Wayne, Run," you'll know what I'm talking about. Actually, all the garbage about Wayne founding BYTE (or even doing any real work for BYTE) is all hooey dreamed up by Wayne himself. Great book. Msg#: 9163 *PROJECTS* 10/25/88 17:42:39 From: ALEXANDER SCHNEIDER To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 9141 (NOT IN BYTE) The sad truth is that most of the readers of Byte are 100% clone-users who only really care about the next Dell PC or dBase upgrade who don't much care about the more technical fields of computers. Alex Msg#: 9175 *PROJECTS* 10/25/88 23:50:05 From: KEITH TUCHOLSKI To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 9142 (NOT IN BYTE) ACTUALLY, IT MAY BE THE FACT THAT THE RIGHT HAND CAN MAKE A BUCK FROM THE LEFT HAND'S MISTAKE. :) Msg#: 9191 *PROJECTS* 10/26/88 06:21:53 From: BOB PADDOCK To: KEN DAVIDSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 9153 (NOT IN BYTE) I would have loved to see that. Alas, BIX is not in my budget.... Msg#: 9200 *PROJECTS* 10/26/88 09:29:34 From: STEVE CIARCIA To: BOB PADDOCK (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 9147 (NOT IN BYTE) BYTE rarely surveys reader interests anymore. What you received was a MARKETING survey. The compiled results are used to sell advertising. BTW, it was the results (that 53% of the readers ALWAYS or MOSTLY read Ciarcia's Circuit Cellar that convinced them to trash it. THe fact that 47% only OCCASIONALLY or NEVER read it suggested that something else could be slipped under their noses and the reader wouldn't know) of one of these surveys that caused our split. I dissagreed with the interpretation of the results and the slanted approach of the questions. --Steve Msg#: 9202 *PROJECTS* 10/26/88 09:53:45 From: STEVE CIARCIA To: BOB PADDOCK (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 9149 (NOT IN BYTE) While Curt (and I suppose my own ego) might dissagree, editorial plays only a small part in a successful magazine. Only if you have tried to publish one would you understand that production, promotion, and business organization are what makes the editorial into a presentable and deliverable package. Between 1975 and 1978, BYTE for all practical purposes was a hacker magazine. It florished because there wasn't much real competition. If you really knew Helmers you would understand when i tell you that back then he had trouble eating with a fork :-) Today of course, he has gained experience and polished his image. No, the real successful management at BYTE started evolving in 1978 and was solidly in place in 1979-80. THe staff of Circuit Cellar INK includes the original co-publisher, circulation manager, financial controller, lead columinist, cover artist, and advertising reps of the early BYTE. Actually, I suppose I shouldn't be surprised that BYTE considers us a threat :-) From a reader's perspective, editorial is 100% of a magazine. While Curt is new on the block, he comes from the same original BYTE/Circuit Cellar spirit and you will not be disappointed. BYTE went through 4 editors-in-chi ef without substantially changing the book. ONLY WHEN the PUBLISHER says change it, as is now happening at BYTE, do drastic things happen. Editors work for the publisher, not vice versa. In CC INK's case, Dan Rodrigues (the publisher) is solidly behind me (editorial director and columinist) and Curt (editor-in-chief). But greater than that, we have the solid support of a group of experienced people that know how to publish a successful magazine. Where else (without spending $10 million on promotion) have you heard of a electronic enthousiast's journal (CC INK) that was on the national news stands at its second issue and entering its 7th issue with a circulation of 25,000! Enough said. All I need is you guys. I don't need Wayne Green. --Steve Msg#: 9203 *PROJECTS* 10/26/88 09:57:25 From: STEVE CIARCIA To: ALEXANDER SCHNEIDER (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 9163 (NOT IN BYTE) I wouldn't be surprised to find that 75% of CC INK readers are also clone owners but that doesn't cause us to turn into a me-too clone rag or publish only PC interfaces. We are presuming that intelligent readers want to know more than that. --Steve Msg#: 9258 *PROJECTS* 10/27/88 12:12:26 From: BOB PADDOCK To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 9202 (NOT IN BYTE) Sounds grate, thanks for the info. Msg#: 9335 *PROJECTS* 10/28/88 18:46:55 From: ALEXANDER SCHNEIDER To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 9203 (NOT IN BYTE) There is a difference between a clone owner and a purebred clone fanatic. Alex Msg#: 9018 *PROJECTS* 10/23/88 17:59:47 From: DALE REID To: MARK VOORHEES (Rcvd) Subj: WEFAX RECEIVERS Mark... I just read the last issue of CCI and understand that in the next issue of the journal you will be discussing the antennas and receiving system that you recommend. Unfortunately I am itching to just get this stuff on the air, and use programs like Elmer Schwittek's display to get my feet wet. I don't want to steal your thunder, but it would be of IMMENSE help, and peace of mind, to see if your recommendati ons agree with what I hope to purchase shortly. Is there a way you could respond (private E-mail,etc) here to take just a second and give me the name of your units, and address if it is a small, less advertised supplier? I would be more likely to sleep better knowing I was treading the right path rather than junk expensive stuff after finding it wasn't suited to the project or my needs. Thanks for the consideration. Dale Msg#: 9287 *PROJECTS* 10/28/88 00:52:46 From: MARK VOORHEES To: DALE REID Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 9018 (WEFAX RECEIVERS) Dale; Thanks for your letter. The next issue will be covering the Yagi antenna, GaAs FET preamp, and 1691/137.5MHz downconverter supplied by Spectrum International (P.O. Box 1084, Concord, MA 01742; Models MMK1691 137.5 and MMg1691). The receiver is a custom design for CCI readers, and is under development at this time. I hope this helps. Let me know if I can be of further service. Mark Voorhees Msg#: 9022 *PROJECTS* 10/23/88 21:46:06 From: STEVE SAMUELS To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: MICRO D-CAM SOLID STATE CAMERA I am a student at Drexel University developing a low cost eye tracking system. I am interested in using the solid state camera you designed in your september-october 1983 circuit cellar. Micromint sold the kit or assembled unit at the time, but I called them recently and they no longer support it. Do you know of any way I can get a kit or already assembled unit. I would appreciate a reply very much. Thankyou, Steve Samuels. Msg#: 9029 *PROJECTS* 10/24/88 01:26:44 From: AL GERACE To: STEVE SAMUELS (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 9022 (MICRO D-CAM SOLID STATE CAMERA) Some time ago I purchased the Apple version of the Micro-D-Cam and never had the chance to use it. Problem is, I no longer have the distribution software, only a listing of the basic files (only) originally supplied. Will this help you? Al Gerace Msg#: 9085 *PROJECTS* 10/24/88 14:47:36 From: STEVE CIARCIA To: STEVE SAMUELS (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 9022 (MICRO D-CAM SOLID STATE CAMERA) I'm not even sure that I have a DCam or any of the software still around. Yes, I suppose it could be used for eye movement but DCam is very slow in low light situations. I suggest that you look at the new ImageWise PC to be presented in issue 6 of Circuit Cellar INK. --Steve Msg#: 9146 *PROJECTS* 10/25/88 12:17:10 From: STEVE SAMUELS To: AL GERACE (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 9029 (MICRO D-CAM SOLID STATE CAMERA) I could be interested in purchasing your DCam if you are willing to sell it. The lack of software would not be a problem since it is the hardware that I am interested in. I will leave a future message within the week on how we may contact each other on this matter. Thanks for the reply. Look for another message. Msg#: 9041 *PROJECTS* 10/24/88 03:04:43 From: DAVE NORRIS To: SP1000 FOLKS Subj: SP1000 VS. BCC52 I recently bought the Lis'ner from the circuit cellar, and rather than write my own code, I thought I'd try looking around before re-inventing the wheel. Does anyone have any of the code for this project ported to the BCC52, or the IBM PC; or at least, have it on-line somewhere? Apple disks don't seem to fit into an IBM PC too well. I can interface the hardware fine; it's the software that'll take time. Any help would be appreciated. Please leave a message here, or to the sysop at (206)881-1068 (BBS), or call me at (206)882-8757. My name's Dave Norris, BTW. Thanks all. -- dn Msg#: 9064 *PROJECTS* 10/24/88 11:17:19 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: DAVE NORRIS (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 9041 (SP1000 VS. BCC52) To my knowledge, no SP1000 software has been done for anything but the Apple's 6502. I can speak from experience (I worked with the software for several months to make it commercially useable) that it would be an immense task for a part-time experimenter to convert it for use on another processor. It would take a full-time programmer a week or two just to do the initial conversion, let alone the testing and modifications necessary. Msg#: 9373 *PROJECTS* 10/29/88 17:46:29 From: DEAN HEDIN To: DAVE NORRIS Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 9041 (SP1000 VS. BCC52) Dave, I have written the interupt routines for the sp1000 in turbo pascal that run on the ibm-pc. I put the sp1000 on a proto-card and adressed it in the high i/o memory. I have only started writing actual recognition algorythms, however. Your best source for info on the sp1000 is GI, they have a very extensive manual for it. Msg#: 9097 *PROJECTS* 10/24/88 19:28:12 From: A FIORANI To: DAVID BODGER Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 1400 (NCR5380 SCSI CHIP) I also have a QL and would be interested in this project , I was considering working with this chip myself perhaps we could share information ? I'll be interested to here from you. Msg#: 9100 *PROJECTS* 10/24/88 20:40:11 From: ED WELLER To: EVERYONE Subj: VLSI AND SPEECH RECOGNITION SYSTEMS I wanted to thank everyone for their input into my VLSI project on speech rcognition. I have decided do to a two month time requirement, to implement a fuzzy-pattern generator in vlsi. This should be a fairly simple approach and could also yield a usefull chip. (I hope.) My teacher thinks that it will be too hard to do but I like a challange. Then again my teacher thinks a four bit adder with look ahead carry is hard. I won't mention his name and hopefully he won't see this. Thanks Again Ed PS If you live in Tennesse look for me on the news. I finally got some recognition for a voice recognition system I did earlier. Msg#: 9148 *PROJECTS* 10/25/88 12:26:56 From: STEVE SAMUELS To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: MICRO DCAM SOLID STATE CAMERA Thanks for the reply. I have a few questions that would be helpful in evaluating the use of the DCam for my project. 1) Is the camera sensitive to infrared light as the only light source 2) Would it be possible to record an infrared beam on the optical ram, and get it into the computer atleast five times a second. We are only interested in where on the ram a single thin infrared beam is hitting. We don't need to detect an image, just a pinpoint of infrared light. Msg#: 9204 *PROJECTS* 10/26/88 10:03:18 From: STEVE CIARCIA To: STEVE SAMUELS (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 9148 (MICRO DCAM SOLID STATE CAMERA) I have never check to see if the IS-32 ram is IR sensitive. Silicon generally is, but I don't know. Finally, if you use a bright light, DCAM can respond at 5 frames per second. --Steve Msg#: 9275 *PROJECTS* 10/27/88 22:42:53 From: STEVE SAMUELS To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 9204 (MICRO DCAM SOLID STATE CAMERA) Thanks for the reply. I'll contact Micron Technologies about the IR. ----- Steve. Msg#: 9161 *PROJECTS* 10/25/88 17:22:14 From: MIKE WILCOX To: ED NISLEY (Rcvd) Subj: MANDLEBROT ENGINE I see in the article that the host for the mandlebrot engine is hosted on an AT. will this work from an XT clone? . thanks in advance, mike wilcox Msg#: 9272 *PROJECTS* 10/27/88 22:22:58 From: ED NISLEY To: MIKE WILCOX Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 9161 (MANDLEBROT ENGINE) Yup. The only catch is that you must have an EGA that's ABSOLUTELY the same as an IBM EGA. The code uses just about every feature of the card and it tends to not work well on clones. You may also have trouble with running the thing at full speed; you can change the speed on the command line (after setting switches on the array if you build it!). If you're not building an array, you're probably in the clear. A minor point is that the thing is pretty glacial if you don't have a math coprocessor. Of course, that's one of the things we were talking about in the article... Msg#: 9169 *PROJECTS* 10/25/88 20:08:23 From: STEVEN MAIR To: ED NISLEY (Rcvd) Subj: IMAGEWISE Dear Ed - From reading the messages here I infer that you are the software expert on the Imagewise. I received my xmtr/rcvr pair yesterday and began testing today. I have a problem that I think is in the rcvr. Being a hardware type, I will of course blame all problems on the software first [large grin], but I suppose it _might_ be a hardware (or even a user !) caused problem. To the problem ... \\ Subjectively, the image has a vert. jitter and there is a bit of horizontal tearing at the top of the screen. Examination of the rcvr's output on a waveform monitor reveals that the vertical sync & blanking interval of the even field has a DC offset of about +100mV. (Hmm, yes, OK, it would be better to say that every other field exhibits this problem. Since the rcvr's output is non-interlaced there is no even or odd field per se). Aside from that, the waveform looks good. \\ Everything is set up properly - terminations etc. - checked and double checked. The problem is not a function of baud rate or any other combination of switch setting that I can see. Nor is it affected by the xmtr's ADC or delay pots. Also, it is certainly not flicker ! \\ Since I know zip about the inner working of the code I can only venture an educated guess as to the cause(s) of the problem. My inspection of the schematics show that the uP has control over the DAC BLANK\ line via the signal ENBCTR. Since RS170 calls for blanking to be 100mV above sync, could it be possible that the ENBCTR is stayin on during the vert interval ? Its been a while since I looked at the data sheet on the TELMOS chip, so I may be way off on this. (I'm writing this at home, and I don't have the rcvr here - otherwise I'd go take a look on the 'scope right now). \\ Please let me know what you think. Thanks so much. \\ \\ Steve \\ P.S. Aside from the minor problem above, it's a GREAT product. I design & manufacture professional video processing gear and tend to be a bit of a video perfectionist, but I am _very_ impressed by the price/performace of the system. Msg#: 9208 *PROJECTS* 10/26/88 10:26:39 From: STEVE CIARCIA To: STEVEN MAIR (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 9169 (IMAGEWISE) You'll be even more impressed with the new ImageWise PC to be described starting in CC INK issue #6. --Steve Msg#: 9282 *PROJECTS* 10/27/88 23:34:11 From: ED NISLEY To: STEVEN MAIR (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 9169 (IMAGEWISE) There's nothing like a good new problem to take your mind off all your old problems... I bet the "jitter" you're seeing really is flicker. The signal is perfectly interlaced with duplicated scan lines. The net effect is that you've got two identical lines alternately refreshed at 30 Hz. Try squinting at the screen and see if it goes away... that high-falutin' video gear may be doing you dirt. A test fix, if squinting doesn't fix it, is in IMWMOD.ARC, which is IMWMOD.HEX mashed down by about 50%. The missing sync is the first equalizing pulse at the end of Field 1. The half line is blanked at about the right point, but if you're fussy you'll see a few microseconds of jitter right about the point where the sync ought to be. If IMWMOD doesn't solve the problem, then you've got something else wrong... and that may be a wetware bug. As far as compression goes, try setting transmitter switch 6 to ON. After thinking about this for a while, I think it's roughly the same as 6-bit delta encoding with a one-count deadband on either side of the current level. The result is a little streaky for flat areas, but if your decompression processor adds some random noise to long encoded runs I bet the result would be pretty good. It's worth simulating, anyway. NOTE TO EAVESDROPPERS: IMWMOD.HEX fixes a problem you don't have. If you download it and use it, all your remaining hair will fall out. Msg#: 9310 *PROJECTS* 10/28/88 10:10:58 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: STEVEN MAIR (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 9169 (IMAGEWISE) Ed's code can be found in the Uploads area, the Other subarea. And like Ed said, it won't do the rest of you any good (I think you look better with your hair in, anyway). Msg#: 9193 *PROJECTS* 10/26/88 07:06:13 From: TIMOTHY JETER To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: THE DDT-51 I have a question about the DDT-51 and the 8052AH basic progect in byte. Can these two devices be used togather ? Msg#: 9276 *PROJECTS* 10/27/88 22:59:42 From: ED NISLEY To: TIMOTHY JETER Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 9193 (THE DDT-51) Steve's got it right. You've got to choose between the BASIC interpreter and DDT-51, because the interpreter uses internal ROM that DDT-51 can't handle. But if you use external program memory with some RAM available at address 0000, disconnect anything hitched to INT1 and T1, and make sure that there are no addressing conflicts with the Debug RAM at 8000, it should work... On the other hand, take a look at the sample circuits in the DDT-51 articles again. There really isn't that much there; you might be better off wiring your own board from scratch just to dispense with the other hardware you don't need. Msg#: 9199 *PROJECTS* 10/26/88 09:28:58 From: TOM POLLARD To: ALL Subj: OEM-286 STARTUP I have a OEM-286 that I want to write my own startup code for. I want to advoid copyright problems with AWARD. My problem is my serial port works fine with the AWARD bios but when I use my oun int start up I will hang from time to time when I acess the serial port. I set up the interrupts 20h , A0h, and the 70h and set the int table from 00h to int ffh to an error trap. then use int 14h for my serial port. The hang only happend when I am looping in wait for a DTR in my serial program. I can loop 10 times with no problm as long as I get the DTR but after 20 times I hang.once agan when I use the AWARD bios with my program I have no problems. Am I missing somthing? is there another interrupt to be masked ? TNANKS Msg#: 9211 *PROJECTS* 10/26/88 11:48:36 From: JEFF BACHIOCHI To: TOM POLLARD (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 9199 (OEM-286 STARTUP) . Tom, . I will not attempt to debug your AT BIOS but , I can suggest a book on writing your own BIOS. . AT BiosKit . from: . Annabooks . 12145 Alta Carmel Ct. . Suite 262 . San Diego . California 92128 . (619) 271-9526 . This is from a 1/9 page AD in the back of BYTE. (IBM Special Edition) . jeff Msg#: 9554 *PROJECTS* 11/02/88 08:56:17 From: TOM POLLARD To: JEFF BACHIOCHI (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 9211 (OEM-286 STARTUP) Thanks Jeff. I think my problem is with the DMA controllers. I was only setting the DMA #2. I will make sure I Buy that book. T.P. Msg#: 9213 *PROJECTS* 10/26/88 12:15:28 From: AVINASH KACHHY To: MARK DUQUETTE (Rcvd) Subj: OEM-286 Hi Mark I am interested in assembling a 286 machine myself, mainly to save cost. I wonder if you could share your experince with me. Please leave your tel # or mail here for me. Thanks Msg#: 9778 *PROJECTS* 11/07/88 22:00:24 From: MARK DUQUETTE To: AVINASH KACHHY Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 9213 (OEM-286) My address is: Mark Duquette 6 Marshal Dr. Enfield CT. 06082 I will be happy to give you as much information as I can. The OEM-286 still is working very well. Msg#: 9225 *PROJECTS* 10/26/88 17:16:02 From: TOM JANISZEWSKI To: JEFF BACHIOCHI (Rcvd) Subj: HAL-4 .... MISTAKES, ETC... Hello all, at my company we opted to build the hal unit from scratch... We do a good amount of prototyping, and had almost all of the parts in house to build the hal unit. In any case, I just completed the assembly of our circuit, which is mounted on a perf-board, wire-wrapped..I checked the connections and everything seems perfect, according to the scematics n the June 1988 issue.. I ran into 2 mistakes though in the schematics.. First off, the RST pin on the 80C31 is marked with a active bar... It is active high, so this seems to be an error... The other problem i encountered was pin 1 of IC4, which shows as going to -V, which of course would be kind of detremental to the 74HC74, since it's -6, and i don't think it likes that. I assume that should be going to +6, but i would appercaite some confirmation of that. Are there any more mistakes in the scheamtics? I have been having little luck at getting my hal unit up as of yet. Like i said, i did check all connections, and everything appears to be connecte d right. The 80C31 does run, and it sends out 5 bytes, but these bytes of data are not right... (I have my test program set up to read 4800 baud, 1 stop bit, no parity... just as in the specs..) in any case, any help from anyone would be appreciated. Tom Analytics, Inc. (215)-657-4100 extension 232 Msg#: 9306 *PROJECTS* 10/28/88 08:48:16 From: JEFF BACHIOCHI To: TOM JANISZEWSKI (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 9225 (HAL-4 .... MISTAKES, ETC...) . Tom, . Unfortunately, when the schematic was redrawn by BYTE a few errors did enter the schematic. You are correct on both counts, these are mislabled on the schematics. If you will leave me your name and address I will be happy to send you our HAL manual compete with schematics! . jeff Msg#: 9226 *PROJECTS* 10/26/88 18:26:50 From: STEVEN MAIR To: ED NISLEY (Rcvd) Subj: IMAGEWISE Ed - Regarding the +100mV offset I observed on the output waveform of the Imagewise rcvr - it seems that my guess as to the cause of the problem is correct. The ENBCTR line to the DAC does indeed remain high at the end of the first field, thus causing the vert sync/blanking interval to be offset by +100mV. You can observe this by triggering your scope on the vsync of the output signal and looking at pin 3 on the TELMOS DAC. You will see that ENBCTR is (properly) low during the first vert interval, but remains high for about 10 to 15 lines in the second vert interval. The result is that the a lot of VCR's and monitors aren't happy ! / BTW, this is effect akin to many of the (rotten) copy protection schemes used to prevent video piracy. Macrovision, for example, inserts a nasty dc offset into the first 10 lines of each field. This serves to drive most AGC circuits nuts (they are usually keyed on the vert sync pulse) and results in the same sort of unstable image that I am getting. / Please advise. / If you need to get me by phone, I can be reached at 213-376-0403 or FAX 213- 372-6765. / Regards, / Steve Msg#: 9232 *PROJECTS* 10/26/88 23:41:46 From: ANDY PICKETT To: MARK VOORHEES (Rcvd) Subj: NTSC ENCODER Mark: Got the kit in the mail a few days ago (yes, a PC board makes it MUCH easier!).... However, I have not yet ordered my back-issue of INK #1 (my first issue was #2), and I don't have a schematic to refer to. Here are my questions: (1) According to figure 1 in the documentation, there are THREE capacitors labeled C15! Which is which? Also, I can't quite make out the capacitor marking next to R16. Which capacitor is left? (2) The 3 electrolytics, C8, C11, and C14 - - does the positive or negative lead of the cap go to the square PC board pad? I'm sure INK #1 would clear this up (and I've already ordered it), but I didn't want to see blue smoke when I turned it on for the first time!!! (3) I bought a surplus power supply which outputs +5 at .9A (obviously enough), and +12 at .3A - - - is the +12 side of this power supply sufficient to drive the board? Thanks for your help! --> Andy <-- P.S. What do you have in mind for the "future subassembly" you mentioned in the documentation? Just curious..... Msg#: 9288 *PROJECTS* 10/28/88 01:03:12 From: MARK VOORHEES To: ANDY PICKETT (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 9232 (NTSC ENCODER) Andy; The C15 error was one I left alone, as all three positions use the same value cap. I also wanted to see, for the sake of interest, how many people noticed the error- you are one of only three in 50 cusomers who have noticed..... but as I said, there is technically no problem. As to the electrolytics, the positive terminal is the square pad. Also, the cap near R16 isC16. c As to the future options, I am looking to cover both an Analog RGB graphics card, and possibly a frame buffer, hence, I installed headers to make signal points available. Oh, missed one- the +12 is a very low requirement, around 50 mA would be sufficient, so 300 mA is great!. Thanks again. Mark Voorhees Msg#: 9346 *PROJECTS* 10/28/88 23:52:57 From: ANDY PICKETT To: MARK VOORHEES (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 9288 (NTSC ENCODER) Mark: Cool....all C15's and C16 are .1 uF. But I also just noticed that C18 (a 62 pF) is missing from the legend. Is one of the C15's REALLY supposed to be C18 - and if so, which one? I have 4 caps "left over" - (3) .1 uF, and (1) 62 pF dipped mica...... only 4 places on the board are empty - the "C15" between IC5 and IC7, the "C15" above IC9, the "C15" to the left of the power input, and the cap marked "C16". Am I losing my mind or just going blind?!?! :-) As mentioned in my first message I messed-up by not getting my subscription started in time for INK #1!! By the way, I have quadruple-checked EVERYTHING else on the board and I'm sure everything else is correct. Thanks again. ---> Andy <--- Msg#: 9629 *PROJECTS* 11/03/88 22:57:57 From: MARK VOORHEES To: ANDY PICKETT (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 9346 (NTSC ENCODER) Andy; In looking closely at fig 1 which I send with the boards, I'm convinced that I need to use a better copier... I can see your confusion. The three C15s should be C15, C16, and C17 in reality. They are located between IC5 and IC7, near IC9, and near the power inputs. C18 is the 62pf S/M, and it is located beside the toko transformer on the side nearest the connector and delay line. I hope this helps. Sorry for the confusion! Mark Voorhees Msg#: 9656 *PROJECTS* 11/05/88 00:24:07 From: ANDY PICKETT To: MARK VOORHEES (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 9629 (NTSC ENCODER) Mark: Gotcha covered... thanks again for your help. By the way, ain't mechanical devices great?! Thanks Mr. Xerox....... :-) --> Andy <-- Msg#: 9256 *PROJECTS* 10/27/88 10:15:08 From: TOM JANISZEWSKI To: JEFF BACHIOCHI (Rcvd) Subj: ANOTHER MISTAKE...(?) In debugging my HAL circuit, I have encounter another mistake in the schematics... From comparing the source code for BIO31 with the schematics, the ADDA-C address lines on the ADC0808 are supposed to be connected to P3.6 - P3.4... And in BIO31 source, it says right at the top the opposite of this (ADCA-C should go to P3.4- P3.6) Which makes more sense. I changed my lines around, and At least now the data that i am getting is coming out of the right channels... Just that for some reason i'm losing bytes of data... (I found this out by simply using a program that would collect data, save it to an array, and then print it out once it takes 200 samples.) Any ideas would be apperciated.. Tom Msg#: 9308 *PROJECTS* 10/28/88 08:55:53 From: JEFF BACHIOCHI To: TOM JANISZEWSKI (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 9256 (ANOTHER MISTAKE...(?)) . Tom, . You've got sharp eyes! You say you're losing DATA. Could it be your collection program can"t keep up with the DATA? Five BYTEs every 1/64 of a second @ 4800 BAUD is not a task for BASIC! . Try using a scope or a COMM program which will display CNTL codes. Keep me posted! . jeff, Msg#: 9462 *PROJECTS* 10/31/88 12:11:40 From: TOM JANISZEWSKI To: JEFF BACHIOCHI (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 9308 (ANOTHER MISTAKE...(?)) Well, I'm glad to say that the problem with losing data seems to have been part problem of the machine I was testing it on (Using a mac & a C program)... There was also a small problem with my MAX232, which has also been corrected. What I am now seeing is what looks to be correct data, and the the QB program that I got with the hal4.arc file seems to be working rather well. We're going to be doing more official tests of it in the near future, and we may also be applying some of the FFT algorithms to some other work in the brainwave field that we are doing. Tom Msg#: 9347 *PROJECTS* 10/29/88 00:00:00 From: KURT GEISEL To: ALL Subj: TEST VECTORS FOR 256K DRAM Is there any sources for a test vector for 256K DRAM chips? I don't know if this is possible or not. I need to test a lot of DRAM chips and I don't want to buy a large scale tester or place them all in a computer one at a time and I was wondering if the CC IC Tester might be made to test DRAMS. Msg#: 9361 *PROJECTS* 10/29/88 10:13:58 From: AUKE VAN.BALEN To: SYSOP (Rcvd) Subj: SCANNING ELECTRON MICROSCOPY It mat be interesting for you to know that we here in Holland have hooked up a Imagewise digitizer to a scanning elctron microscope. This allow us to store pictures of the SEM in a fairly convenient format on a PC, and it allows us (and our customers) rapid comparison between various specimens. The Imagewise receiver replays the pictures via the external video input of the SEM. Auke van Balen Philips I&E Development Electron Optics Eindhoven the Netherlands Msg#: 9391 *PROJECTS* 10/30/88 09:37:11 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: AUKE VAN.BALEN Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 9361 (SCANNING ELECTRON MICROSCOPY) Hey, I like that. Thanks for letting us know how you're using it. Normally we only hear from people using the system when there is a problem. I know there has been a lot of interest in the ImageWise for use in that type of application as well as medical applications. It's nice to know it actually made it to one. Msg#: 9400 *PROJECTS* 10/30/88 10:30:15 From: PAUL FINCATO To: ALL Subj: IMAGEWISE RESOLUTION Does anyone know if there is a firmware upgrade dor the imagewise to increase the resolution of the digitizer? Say something more computer standard, like 320 X 200. I am considering building IMAGEWISE but I am currently running an AMIGA and an image filling only a half or quarter of the screen doesn't seem too exciting. Any suggestions? Thanks, Paul D. Fincato Msg#: 9401 *PROJECTS* 10/30/88 10:46:42 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: PAUL FINCATO Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 9400 (IMAGEWISE RESOLUTION) It would take a whole lot more than just a new EPROM to increase the resolution of the ImageWise. It it was that easy, wouldn't we have done it by now? To double its resolution both vertically and horizontally, it would easily double or triple the cost of the board. Another factor is signal source. You're not going to get much more detail out of a standard NTSC video signal even if you do go to a higher resolution. Don't forget that resolution is only half the issue. With 64 levels of grey, a picture displayed on the receiver/display board is almost indistinguishable from the original. Now as for your Amiga, even in your 320x200 mode, you can only display 32 levels of grey, half of what the ImageWise is giving you. Since the ImageWise picture is 256x244, it would completely fill your screen vertically and would fill most of the screen horizontally. In 640x400 mode (where it would fill a quarter of the screen), you'd only be able to display 16 levels of grey. The IBM VGA is the first personal computer display that can actually display an ImageWise picture in all its glory (albeit with only 200 vertically instead of 244). Msg#: 9626 *PROJECTS* 11/03/88 20:11:34 From: MARVIN GOLDBERG To: KEN DAVIDSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 9401 (IMAGEWISE RESOLUTION) I too had hoped that there would be a relatively easy way to increase the resolution of the Imagewise digitizer to 512 x 512. Failing that, your comments about the use of the IBM VGA display interests me. How can I direct the images to the VGA monitor? Do any of the software programs need to be modified? Msg#: 9637 *PROJECTS* 11/04/88 08:09:44 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: MARVIN GOLDBERG (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 9626 (IMAGEWISE RESOLUTION) There are one or two programs in the ImageWise file area here that will display ImageWise pictures on a VGA display. The programs that come with it only take advantage of an EGA (or EGA mode on a VGA). Msg#: 9406 *PROJECTS* 10/30/88 12:15:21 From: DOUG BUHRMAN To: KEN DAVIDSON (Rcvd) Subj: 10 MHZ DIGITIZING BOARDS Thanks for the info Ken. What are you using to program the PAL chips? Msg#: 9438 *PROJECTS* 10/31/88 08:51:36 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: DOUG BUHRMAN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 9406 (10 MHZ DIGITIZING BOARDS) The only way to do it is with a PAL programmer. You should check with Russ to find out if he plans to make PALs available for people who build the project but don't have access to a programmer. Msg#: 9677 *PROJECTS* 11/05/88 08:35:34 From: DOUG BUHRMAN To: KEN DAVIDSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 9438 (10 MHZ DIGITIZING BOARDS) Thanks Ken. I started shopping around to see what it cost for a PAL programming board and they were not cheap. I don't know enough about PALs to justify that kind of expense. As soon as I find out about the PAL chips I can decide if I should go ahead with this project. Again, thanks for your help. Doug Msg#: 9457 *PROJECTS* 10/31/88 10:23:01 From: JR WEAVER To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: SUPERCOMPUTER PROJECT This is great!! This is my first time on CCBBS. Steve, i have been an avid reader of your byte column for years, but was never motivated to build anything until i read you supercomputer project, the Mandelbrot engine. Also, i am a junior in the EE program at Penn State with an intense interest in parallel computing. So i am going full steam ahead! I have downloaded all the files for both the supercomputer and DDT51 and just subscribed to INK. I plan to build your system first for demonstration purpose than redesign it to have node to node communications. So i will need more EPROM space. I plan to use the 8032 and an 8K EPROM. Will this configuration work to build your system and is it a good choice? I have already been scoping the cost for a 64 node system. Do you have any suggestions for bargain supplier of 8051 chips? The lowest i could find was Jameco Electronics. Thanks for your time. And bear with this neophyte BBS user. JR Msg#: 9509 *PROJECTS* 11/01/88 10:16:11 From: STEVE CIARCIA To: JR WEAVER (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 9457 (SUPERCOMPUTER PROJECT) Actually, a 4 chip 8031/8051 based circuit in place of the 8751 is probably very suitable (I even suggested it in the article), albeit a bit time consuming to wire. Sorry, no special sources for 8051 chips but you might want to consider using 80C31/51/52 chips to cut down on the power. BTW, anyone out there with more money than time can buy the Mandelbrot engine we built and it pictured in the article (includes the builtin 32M hard disk AT as well) for $8000 cash :-) Guaranteed to work! --Steve ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Msg#: 9509 *PROJECTS* 11-01-88 10:16:11 From: STEVE CIARCIA To: JR WEAVER (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 9457 (SUPERCOMPUTER PROJECT) Actually, a 4 chip 8031/8051 based circuit in place of the 8751 is probably very suitable (I even suggested it in the article), albeit a bit time consuming to wire. Sorry, no special sources for 8051 chips but you might want to consider using 80C31/51/52 chips to cut down on the power. BTW, anyone out there with more money than time can buy the Mandelbrot engine we built and it pictured in the article (includes the builtin 32M hard disk AT as well) for $8000 cash :-) Guaranteed to work! --Steve Msg#: 9522 *PROJECTS* 11-01-88 13:42:30 From: JEFF QUIN To: KEN DAVIDSON (Rcvd) Subj: DOWN LOAD OF ARC.EXE After downloading the file ARC.EXE and stripping off the extra characters at the front of the file (menu selection info was saved with the file, I used the XMODEM protocol), I cannot get the file to execute. I keep getting an "ERROR in EXE file" message. Any suggestions? Msg#: 9562 *PROJECTS* 11-02-88 12:34:03 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: JEFF QUIN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 9522 (DOWN LOAD OF ARC.EXE) There is no way you could have downloaded the file using XMODEM and ended up with a part of the selection menu in the final file. Using a binary protocol like XMODEM, you should end up with an exact copy of the original file. Only using an ASCII protocol will you sometimes end up with extra garbage, but since ARC.EXE is a binary file, an ASCII protocol can't be used to download it. I would say download it again making absolutely sure you're using XMODEM and don't mess with the file once it's on your end. Msg#: 9554 *PROJECTS* 11-02-88 08:56:17 From: TOM POLLARD To: JEFF BACHIOCHI (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 9211 (OEM-286 STARTUP) Thanks Jeff. I think my problem is with the DMA controllers. I was only setting the DMA #2. I will make sure I Buy that book. T.P. Msg#: 9580 *PROJECTS* 11-02-88 20:06:22 From: ED WELLER To: ANY DSP AUTHORITY Subj: FILTERING Hello again, I am again in need of some information for my VSLI speech rec. system. I need a way to digitally strip out a the fundamental frequency from a voice frequency spectrum. I have a H(z) transform for a filter that was supposed to work, but when simulating t in Matlab it comes out as being unstable. Here is the transform: H(z) = z^(-7) - [ 1/8 ( 1 - z(-8) )/( 1 - z(-1)) ] ^2 This was used in an earlier study in Japan, but it seems to be incorrect. I would greatly appreciate any help in either fixing this algorithm or any ideals on a different method for doing this. I have been told that a median filter might do the trick but so far I have had no luck in understanding how one works. Ed Weller Msg#: 9616 *PROJECTS* 11-03-88 14:41:38 From: MARCUS HALL To: KEN DAVIDSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 895 (ELECTRONIC HOUSE MAGAZINE) Just a note about Electronic House -- they have a new address. It is now 56477 Elm Street, Mishawaka, IN 46545. Telephone # is the same, 219/256-2060. Msg#: 9618 *PROJECTS* 11-03-88 14:54:55 From: MARCUS HALL To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: BATTERY POWERED CONTROLLERS Back when you were writing about the IR Master Controller, you made a comment about not complicating the design with automatic power up/down circuits. I am in an early thinking phase for a 2-way controller/com- municator that would talk via IR to the house. It would support keyboard entry and a small LCD display. The house would take care of whatever was necessary to actually turn light on/off, etc. To conserve power, I would like to power off the processor and ROM and whatever else I could. The system would have to wake up from any keypress (probably not too hard to do) and also on receipt of any activity on the IR receiver. Sending unsolicited data to the remote would first send a signal to wake the remote up, wait for its initialization to complete, then start communicating real data. Ideally, this would not be spoofed easily by IR signals being sent to control TVs, VTRs, etc., although by properly locating the IR LEDs for these devices such interference may be limited. marcus hall Msg#: 9634 *PROJECTS* 11-04-88 03:21:42 From: GARY LEAR To: MARCUS HALL (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 9618 (BATTERY POWERED CONTROLLERS) Not difficult to do with one of the new CMOS microcontrollers (MC68HC11, TMS370, etc) that has built-in low power modes. Both processors have *realistic* sleep currents of 10uA or so (lower than the published specs,but both manufacturers indicate that this is true in 99% of the cases). --Gary Msg#: 9643 *PROJECTS* 11-04-88 12:00:49 From: MARCUS HALL To: GARY LEAR (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 9634 (BATTERY POWERED CONTROLLERS) I was actually thinking of the 80C51 because of its UART (also on other controllers, I know). I want to use the same controller in various stations around the house as well as in the remotes. If things work out, I would like to use the HDX mode as a communication bus and just send and receive IR signals to/from this house bus. Anyhow, the exact processor to use is not critical to me yet. Actually, I don't really care much if the processor has a power-down mode since it isn't really necessary that anything be remembered across uses (although the display may make it necessary to save what's out there..) It wouldn't be too bad to just shut the processor off entirely. The problem is that I'm really a software engineer with a pretty good understanding of digital electronics, but it's the analog side that gives me problems. What I really want to know is what kind of circuit do you use to shut off the power to selected circuits going into power-down mode and what is needed to bring power back up. I am supposing that there will always be some CMOS circuitry running to detect a key press (not necessarily scan for it, just notice that something's been hit--the processor can scan the keyboard once it gets going--I hope) and to detect receipt of an IR burst (again, this would just wake up the processor, data transfer would occur later). I would imagine that I would need an NPN transistor with the collector at +5V and the emitter supplying switched power to the circuits and the base connected to the power control, or something like this. Maybe there is some better way to do it, or this could be totally wrong. At any rate, I am at a loss as to how to select the appropriate parts, what resistors to throw in where, etc. Any suggestions? Any commercial circuits that do this (I wouldn't be surprised)? thanks-- marcus hall Msg#: 9654 *PROJECTS* 11-04-88 23:49:54 From: GARY LEAR To: MARCUS HALL (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 9643 (BATTERY POWERED CONTROLLERS) I am working on a similar problem at the moment for a commercial system that I somehow got tangled up in. Although I have not made a final determination as of yet, the Maxim MAX690 series appears to be promising. If you want to retain *anything* of your processor data I recommend using a CMOS processor with sleep states. Even in low power mode it is likely that the 80C51 will draw significantly more power (I don't have the data in front of me) than say the MC68HC11 (100 uA in specs, 10uA in reality). Although I agree with you from a software point of view that it really doesn't matter what uC you use, from a hardware (and thus cost in a home project) perspective it makes a big difference. Try to determine your system requirements now and make your pr ocessor choice soon. Let me know if I can be of any further help. Good luck! --Gary Msg#: 9626 *PROJECTS* 11-03-88 20:11:34 From: MARVIN GOLDBERG To: KEN DAVIDSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 9401 (IMAGEWISE RESOLUTION) I too had hoped that there would be a relatively easy way to increase the resolution of the Imagewise digitizer to 512 x 512. Failing that, your comments about the use of the IBM VGA display interests me. How can I direct the images to the VGA monitor? Do any of the software programs need to be modified? Msg#: 9637 *PROJECTS* 11-04-88 08:09:44 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: MARVIN GOLDBERG (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 9626 (IMAGEWISE RESOLUTION) There are one or two programs in the ImageWise file area here that will display ImageWise pictures on a VGA display. The programs that come with it only take advantage of an EGA (or EGA mode on a VGA). Msg#:10024 *PROJECTS* 11-13-88 12:28:16 From: STEVE SMITH To: MARVIN GOLDBERG (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 9626 (IMAGEWISE RESOLUTION) I have uploaded a VGA display program for Image Wse Pics. Look in the Image Wise file section Msg#:10021 *PROJECTS* 11-13-88 12:21:07 From: STEVE SMITH To: PAUL FINCATO Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 9400 (IMAGEWISE RESOLUTION) Re display of IMAGE WISE images on VGA. I have uploaded a coupoe of versions of VGA display programs. Look in the Image Wise file area. Msg#: 9629 *PROJECTS* 11-03-88 22:57:57 From: MARK VOORHEES To: ANDY PICKETT (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 9346 (NTSC ENCODER) Andy; In looking closely at fig 1 which I send with the boards, I'm convinced that I need to use a better copier... I can see your confusion. The three C15s should be C15, C16, and C17 in reality. They are located between IC5 and IC7, near IC9, and near the power inputs. C18 is the 62pf S/M, and it is located beside the toko transformer on the side nearest the connector and delay line. I hope this helps. Sorry for the confusion! Mark Voorhees Msg#: 9656 *PROJECTS* 11-05-88 00:24:07 From: ANDY PICKETT To: MARK VOORHEES (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 9629 (NTSC ENCODER) Mark: Gotcha covered... thanks again for your help. By the way, ain't mechanical devices great?! Thanks Mr. Xerox....... :-) --> Andy <-- Msg#: 9630 *PROJECTS* 11-04-88 00:19:41 From: JOHN STEVENSON To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: HAL-4 Hello Steve, Has anyone patched the HAL-4 software to dump the incoming data to a disk file? This would save me a lot of trouble re-inventing the wheel. I assume that a routine to dump a screen image to the disk once per update would not slow things up too much if written in Assembler. The replay program could be in compiled BASIC. The existing BIO.EXE looks plenty fast on my 10MHz 286. Best regards, John Stevenson Msg#: 9662 *PROJECTS* 11-05-88 01:26:00 From: JOHNNY WILLIAMS To: ED NISLEY (Rcvd) Subj: MANDELBROT ENGINE Are there any plans to adapt the current BYTE project to work on PC/XT machines? I was very interested in the project but only have an XT and no plans to buy an AT in the near future. I know a lot of people in the same boat that would also like to try this particular project. Johnny WIlliams Raleigh N.C. Msg#:10398 *PROJECTS* 11-24-88 10:11:19 From: JOHNNY WILLIAMS To: ED NISLEY (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 9871 (MANDELBROT ENGINE) Thanks for the info. I will give it a try. Johnny Williams Raleigh N.C. Msg#: 9677 *PROJECTS* 11-05-88 08:35:34 From: DOUG BUHRMAN To: KEN DAVIDSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 9438 (10 MHZ DIGITIZING BOARDS) Thanks Ken. I started shopping around to see what it cost for a PAL programming board and they were not cheap. I don't know enough about PALs to justify that kind of expense. As soon as I find out about the PAL chips I can decide if I should go ahead with this project. Again, thanks for your help. Doug Msg#: 9686 *PROJECTS* 11-05-88 12:09:41 From: WILLIAM WHITTON To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: NEEDED DESPERATELY! I deeply appreciate your previous artciles, and now this fine magazine. But thereis one thing I'd love to see. All to many times publications publish an article with a project in it and use the all-too-familiar words: "This is easily adapted to work with your computer!". hogwash...what if we really don't have the time? I'd love to build some of the goodies I have seen, and as the head tech of a large r epair firm, am quite capable. But, I really dont have the time for design work. so how about design a few interfaces that would allow, lets say the ST/Mac?amiga owner to use projects design for the XT..sure the software would be different, but that might be a relatively simple matter. But it would open up your projects and others to a world of new usersm, and would be deeply apreciated... Thanks in advance for your reply... Msg#: 9757 *PROJECTS* 11-07-88 09:38:03 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: WILLIAM WHITTON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 9686 (NEEDED DESPERATELY!) Most Circuit Cellar projects are already usable with any computer from a hardware standpoint. Look at ImageWise, HAL, SmartSpooler, IC Tester, Master Controller, Serial EPROM Programmer, even DDT-51. The biggest problem is always software, which you say must be pretty simple. When you have an abundance of IBM PC programmers and an audience which is made up of mostly IBM PC users, you tend to write the software for that machine. But the hardware of the most of the projects will work with almost any machine (or is stand-alone). Msg#:12497 *PROJECTS* 01-07-89 11:35:06 From: WILLIAM WHITTON To: KEN DAVIDSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 9757 (NEEDED DESPERATELY!) Thats true, but we need someone to design an interface that will allow these projects to run from other machines other than the BM for instance. Lets say, I have an Atari ST, and want to use a project for the IBM. Easy enough to run the software, just run my IBM emulator program, and away she goes. but the hardware, although not difficult, is time time consuming, and many of us dont have it! Thats where we need a bit of help. /s Msg#:12501 *PROJECTS* 01-07-89 12:16:56 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: WILLIAM WHITTON Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 12497 (NEEDED DESPERATELY!) I still don't agree with your assertion that the hardware is difficult to use with machines other than IBM PCs. Look back at my original list of projects. Every one of those projects uses a standard RS-232 serial connection except the DDT-51, which uses a bidirectional parallel port. And since parallel ports are more likely to have been done correctly on newer machines like the Atari, using it on such a machine is probably easier than on an IBM (from a hardware standpoint). Cite some specific examples (besides those designed to be plugged into the IBM PC bus like the OEM-286 and ImageWise/PC) and maybe I'll start to see your side. Msg#: 9695 *PROJECTS* 11-05-88 18:43:59 From: DONALD KERNS To: ALL Subj: MANDELBROT ENGINE PART II ERRATA Perhaps this is a niggling point, but in listing 1b of the November Circuit Cellar the ^'s were left out of the pseudocode for the real and imaginary components of the complex number's magnitude. I would be interested in hearing from anyone who has generated the M-Set using any other than the "brute force" method of calculating each pixel. / A method that traces along each "color border" might give faster results. Or perhaps a method that calculates two points, if they are the same, continue, if not go half-way between them and test again. The second method would save a great deal of effort when the initial conditions are actually within the M-Set. -Donald Kerns Msg#: 9722 *PROJECTS* 11-06-88 12:43:35 From: TONY WEIL To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: DIGITAL MUSIC Steve, Why not develop a system for a stereo music system using 3 1/2" floppy disks? As an avid music lover I have waited many years for the industry to come up with a system that lived up to my expectations. I really don't knowthat much about digital sound, but does a floppy based system seem reasonable to you. The disadvantages of the current mediums are obvious: 1) CD's are expensive (although they will probably get cheaper) and you can't record your own CD's. 2) Records are a pain and get scratched easily. 3) Standard cassette tapes have a lot of noise and seem to always get hung up in the machine. You also can't pick the track that you want to listen to. 4) DAT - Digital Audio tape ( if it ever gets to this country) seems pretty good.I assume that you can pick the track that you want to hear and the machine will find it for you. There is still the problem of the machine eating your tape. With DAT you might be able to record your own music depending on how the current legal battles turn out A system using 3 1/2" floppys seems to me to be the optimal setup. Good digital sound, you can record your own, quick switching between tracks, nice durable package, and plenty of existing technology to draw from. You could even make a player for your car. Am I missing some important point. If not, maybe yhe industry has already thought of it and thinks it is too dangerous for them. Even if you don't want to design a system, how about an article on digital sound and maybe how CD's work. Thanks for listening, Tony Msg#: 9760 *PROJECTS* 11-07-88 10:19:17 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: TONY WEIL (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 9722 (DIGITAL MUSIC) There are two factors you haven't thought of in your musical floppy idea: data rate and total storage. A CD's sample rate is 44.1 kHz for each channel. So that's 88,200 16-bit samples per second, or 1.4 Mbps. A standard floppy is only capable of transferring data at 250 kbps, just about 1/6 the necessary transfer rate. And that doesn't take into account the *very* slow step rate between tracks. CDs contain a single track which spirals outward, so stepping isn't an issue. As for total storage, back to our 44.1-kHz sample rate. With 88,200 16-bit samples per second, your throughput is about 172K bytes per second. Even with 1.44M floppies, you'll only get 8.5 seconds of music before you run out of storage. CDs can typically store hundreds of megabytes, which leaves floppies in the dust. Good idea on the surface, but floppies are in a different league from CDs. Tandy should be coming out with a recordable/erasable CD within the next year, so DAT will become a moot point with most consumers (I know it will with me, anyway). Msg#: 9821 *PROJECTS* 11-08-88 22:42:04 From: SIMON SABATO To: TONY WEIL (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 9722 (DIGITAL MUSIC) One point that you may have missed is the fact that CD's hold 500 megabytes of digital data, while 3.5" disks hold at a max 2 meg. That would mean that you have 1/250 of the recording capacity. -Simon Sabato Msg#: 9822 *PROJECTS* 11-08-88 22:43:49 From: SIMON SABATO To: KEN DAVIDSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 9760 (DIGITAL MUSIC) The NeXT machine already has a 256 Meg optical R/W disk. Would the Tandy disk be compatible with current CD players? -Simon Sabato Msg#: 9844 *PROJECTS* 11-09-88 08:45:37 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: SIMON SABATO (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 9822 (DIGITAL MUSIC) As far as I know, the NeXT optical disc is completely different from the Tandy system. The audio version of what Tandy is working on will allow the discs that you record to be played on any CD player. It should be neat if they can make it a reality (and a few skeptics have said they won't be able to, at least not in the time frame projected). Msg#: 9765 *PROJECTS* 11-07-88 11:56:31 From: ALLEN SPEER To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: TELEPHONE SECURITY DEVICE I am looking for help to design a telephone security device as described in message 9338 *INK. If I can persuade you, might you be interested in such a device to feature, or do you know of sources for such a device? My idea would entail a large number of valid access codes being from four to ten digits long. I have found a source that can provide me with a unit that will screen calls, but it will only accept one access code at a time until it is reprogramed. Thank you for any help you can render. Msg#: 9865 *PROJECTS* 11-09-88 16:47:55 From: STEVE CIARCIA To: ALLEN SPEER (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 9765 (TELEPHONE SECURITY DEVICE) While such devices are commercially available, I probably will build one. I am waiting for the a new voice synthesizer first to use with it. --Steve Msg#: 9959 *PROJECTS* 11-11-88 14:41:51 From: ALLEN SPEER To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 9865 (TELEPHONE SECURITY DEVICE) Thanks a lot for your response, I'll be looking forward to that project. Msg#: 9771 *PROJECTS* 11-07-88 16:58:05 From: JEFF QUIN To: KEN DAVIDSON (Rcvd) Subj: FILE TRANSFER The problem that I described to you previously was operator error. I have been able to receive and unpack the PKX35A35.EXE file. When I tried to do the same with the ARC.EXE file I keep getting a data read error on the disk for that file. I have had it sent twice with problems both times. Any suggestions? Thanks. Msg#: 9772 *PROJECTS* 11-07-88 17:17:02 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: JEFF QUIN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 9771 (FILE TRANSFER) PKX35A35.EXE is a self-unpacking ARC file. When you run it, it breaks into several files. The ARC.EXE file posted in the Project files area is a straight .EXE file and is not self-unpacking. Since you have PKARC, you really don't need ARC. If you really want it, go over to the IBM PC Utilities area and download the real arc file (I think it's ARC522.ARC). Msg#: 9778 *PROJECTS* 11-07-88 22:00:24 From: MARK DUQUETTE To: AVINASH KACHHY Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 9213 (OEM-286) My address is: Mark Duquette 6 Marshal Dr. Enfield CT. 06082 I will be happy to give you as much information as I can. The OEM-286 still is working very well. Msg#: 9779 *PROJECTS* 11-07-88 22:51:29 From: FRED MORGAN To: ALL USERS Subj: EDGE SHARPING SOFTWARE In reading an article July 87 byte it mentioned about edge sharping software. I am in need of some software that can edge sharp my TGA files. Maybe if no software out there, you may know of the program, a program that does this and I can convert the code to my system I am using a sharp scanner(jx450) and need the software to help me get what I cALL better focus on the images scanned. Any ideas will be welcome. thanks Msg#: 9790 *PROJECTS* 11-08-88 04:30:27 From: FRANK KUECHMANN To: ALAN GOLDSTEIN Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 9464 (KEYBOARD FOR SMARTTERM) Keyboard info is on the way. The most notable thing about Boca used to be the old airbase where they trained B-17 crews during WWII. Even after the base had been abandoned for 15 years the concrete runways and aprons were still there and in good shape. When they put up the Florida Atlantic U campus in the mid-60s they had pre-paved parking lots. Msg#: 9866 *PROJECTS* 11-09-88 16:51:49 From: STEVE CIARCIA To: FRANK KUECHMANN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 9790 (KEYBOARD FOR SMARTTERM) The runways sound like a good place to test a Porsche :-) --Steve Msg#:10015 *PROJECTS* 11-13-88 02:44:28 From: FRANK KUECHMANN To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 9866 (KEYBOARD FOR SMARTTERM) They would've been until they built the university campus on them. Now that whole area's so built-up you'd never get a Porsche out of first gear. Msg#: 9812 *PROJECTS* 11-08-88 18:43:24 From: JACK FEDER To: JEFF BACHIOCHI (Rcvd) Subj: BCC52 The following is a sample of a session with my bcc52, processor only is Cmos *MCS-51(tm) BASIC V1.1* READY >? DE 0 >? DF 0 >DF = 10 >? DF 0 >? D 10 >10 DF >LIST 10 DF READY >10 DF = >LIST 10 D= READY >10 EF = DF >LIST 10 E=DF READY >10 EF = EF >LIST 10 E=EF READY > ...... Please Help me , what is happening? - Jack Msg#: 9832 *PROJECTS* 11-09-88 00:48:14 From: JACK FEDER To: JEFF BACHIOCHI (Rcvd) Subj: BCC52.BUG I narrowed the problem down a little, and it seems to be a bug. In command mode, the line f=2 works correctly, but the line f =2 ; does not. with no space it works correctly, with a space after the f it reports a bad syntax error, and the data assignment does not take place. If entered as a line number, "10 f = 2" lists as "10 =2" while "10 f=2" lists correctly, probably the cause for the bad syntax error. I removed every rom/ram from the board exept for the 0-1FFFh RAM and I have the new Cmos 8052 but not the completely cmos computer. I tried replacing the ram chip. The above bug only occurs with "f", not with any other variable I have found. This bug seems almost too bizarre to be caused by a bad bit in the 8052 internal ROM. Could you try to duplicate this? If you can not duplicate this, should I get a new 8052? -Thanks, - Jack Msg#: 9965 *PROJECTS* 11-11-88 16:07:45 From: JEFF BACHIOCHI To: JACK FEDER Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 9832 (BCC52.BUG) . Jack, . You have indeed found the only 'BUG' in the BASIC-52. This is consistent with every Version of INTEL's BASIC. Since you have found the way around this little devil there is not much I can add. INTEL (the author of BASIC-52) confirms this "softbug" and does not consider it to be a problem. And of course it's not! Unless you don't know about it! Don't replace any parts on your system. You've been caught by a gotcha. I hope this confirmation removes your frustration. . jeff Msg#: 9908 *PROJECTS* 11-10-88 13:29:57 From: ADAM SUNDOR To: ROBERT WELKER Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 8174 (HAL) Thanks for your message. There problems with 4.0. Since I was liad off in my defense industry job, I have decided to earn an honest living and am now going to build, calibrate, and market the HAL as professional units. Would you be interested in buying the software, first version, which activates all 4 channels on the kit and permits having the computer give biofeedback signals based on amplitude and frequency? I also am going to market electrodes which use salt water and are very easy to use and far, far more accurate than the bipolar placements that HAL recommends and the rest of the industry - the psychologists and medicine men know so little about signal processing and physics, very very unfortunately - but maybe fortunately for me. Do you think this is a good idea? Can I ask what is a fair price for the software to do the first round of tricks, that is, put four channels up on the screen and give actual feedback via the computer's sound generator? I also am going to offer calibration service, that is, send me your kit and I will calibrate it so that the actual numbers appearing on the computer screen are micrvolts and not heuristics. Come to think of it, do you want me also to build the kit? Would $ 19 be a fair price for the first version of the software? Let me know what you think. Msg#:10112 *PROJECTS* 11-15-88 22:31:53 From: STEVE MAHER To: ADAM SUNDOR (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 9908 (HAL) I am interested in your software and also in the electrodes and the placement of them. How about something more in the way of description and features? (also price). Looking forward to hearing from you. SM Msg#:10414 *PROJECTS* 11-25-88 03:28:09 From: ADAM SUNDOR To: STEVE MAHER (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 10112 (HAL) The software in these early versions is $ 19. The electrodes for four of them plus two earclip type electrodes would probably be about $ 91, but I shall double check the price with Dr. Les Fehmi when I see him later today. These electrodes are made out of pure silver wire and felt, sort of like little hot-dogs about 3 inches long and half inch in diameter. They are used quite extensively in his practice for the last twenty years or so. Easier to use than the ordinary electrodes used throughout the industry. Placement is great, anywhere you want to record electrical activity. The electrodes on the ears take care of the reference and ground electrodes so you only need to follow your curiosity or you can ask me for serious investigation - like which lobes you are interested in: temporal, frontal, occipital or parietal and for which phenomenon. Did you want additional information? Happy Thanksgiving, Adam. Msg#:10607 *PROJECTS* 11-29-88 02:22:05 From: ADAM SUNDOR To: ROBERT WELKER Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 8174 (HAL) I could not get QB 4.0 to work with the HAL software. Also, the maintenance upgrade was equally abortive. I had to downgrade to QB 3.0 to get any results. Microsoft's support suggested using DECLARE statements but that proved fruitless. Msg#: 9909 *PROJECTS* 11-10-88 13:36:26 From: ADAM SUNDOR To: TOM WRONA (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 8997 (HAL ETC.) Thanks for your message. Any supplier should have cheap TENS but I shall look around for you. Having lost my job with the defense industry, I am going to earn an honest living making or clibrating or softwaring the HAL kits. I have a 4 channel unit going now and plan to get more going. Also it does biofeedback now, select the channel and amplitude, and get a corresponding tone. I am going to sell this for $ 19. Is that a fair price or too cheap? I also have electrodes, made out of pure silver, which solve the problem of paste and stuff since they use salt water and are monopolar. Monopolar is far more accurate than the bipolar that the industry, knot knowing about signal processing for psychology or medicine, recommends. Kind of scary being on my own but my conscience is clear. The hemi-sync stuff is fine, but I prefer the HAL appraoch since you do this to yourself instead of it being done to you. In other words, you learn and your brain learns to generate certain types of alpha production. If interested, contact me here or at home: Tel. 215-657-0991 or write to me at 3980 Commerce Ave., Suite Twenty-three, Willow Grove, PA 19090. Oh, I found I could calibrate the HAL unit so that the numbers at the top of the screen are actual microvolts instead of heuristics. It is a great kit and can be made to do professional tricks at a fraction of a professional unit. In fact, I can make it do more than most EEG biofeedback units that cost thousands and more thousands of dollars. I am starting to sound like a marketeer? Adam Msg#:10876 *PROJECTS* 12-03-88 12:17:15 From: TOM WRONA To: ADAM SUNDOR (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 9909 (HAL ETC.) Adam, Sounds like you're doing some interesting stuff. I will be in touch. -- Tom -- Msg#: 9970 *PROJECTS* 11-11-88 19:26:32 From: THOMAS DOYLE To: HAROLD RICHARDSON Subj: RGBI TO NTSC ENCODER I am suffering with the same horizontal swim problem you described. I have tried everything to get rid of it. That sort of problem is often related to grounding or power supply filters or lack of shielded cables. I have tried everything including different cards, computers, power supplies, NTSC monitors and cables to no avail. I tried it with an XT and found that adjusting the 4.77 mhz clock frequency changed the swim rate. I suspect that there is a timing problem in the design that results in the beat frequency. It may only show up with certain combinations of osc freqeuncies on the board and in the display adapter. Msg#: 9971 *PROJECTS* 11-11-88 19:30:06 From: THOMAS DOYLE To: ALL Subj: RGBI-NTSC ENCODER Is there anyone out there who has built the RGBI-NTSC circuit. If you have I would be interested in obtaining some bug free documentation. I have been sorting out the errors in the article and the additional errors on the documentation that came with the kit. Msg#:10247 *PROJECTS* 11-20-88 14:22:52 From: STEVE CIARCIA To: THOMAS DOYLE Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 9971 (RGBI-NTSC ENCODER) I'd be interested in seeing it. Admittedly, the board we tested was preassembled so we never saw any assembly instructions or had reason to question the schematic. --Steve Msg#: 9972 *PROJECTS* 11-11-88 19:31:46 From: THOMAS DOYLE To: MARK VOORHEES (Rcvd) Subj: RGBI-NTSC I have sent you a letter outlining the problems with the RGBI-NTSC Kit. I am looking forward to a reply asap. Thanks Tom Msg#:10049 *PROJECTS* 11-14-88 00:34:37 From: MARK VOORHEES To: THOMAS DOYLE Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 9972 (RGBI-NTSC) Tom; I will be sending you a reply by mail tuesday, answering your questions. In the meantime, it is my practice to personally check any problems with my projects (I've only had one with this kit to date). If you will send your unit to me at the P.O. Box, I'll check it, correct any problems, and return it to you at no charge. I'm sorry we've had so many problems with your order... it seems that everything has gone wrong at once. I hope that I can correct these troubles to your satisfaction. Mark Voorhees Msg#: 9974 *PROJECTS* 11-11-88 19:36:36 From: THOMAS DOYLE To: CHRIS BARANSKI (Rcvd) Subj: RGBI-NTSC I wonder if you have built the RGBI-NTSC encoder. I bought a kit from Mark and have been having a lot of trouble with it. If you have built the circuit I would be most interested in your experience with the analog input mod. I was thinking about that myself to allow use with cards that offer analog output but I have been wasting most of my time trying to get the horizontal swim out of the converter and have not had a chance to try it. Tom ...... Msg#:11216 *PROJECTS* 12-09-88 20:15:40 From: CHRIS BARANSKI To: THOMAS DOYLE Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 9974 (RGBI-NTSC) Sorry it took so long to get back to you. I haven't finished construcon on my encoder yet, but I know a guy in Minnesota who was going to use his in the same way, that is, with analog video inputs. If you bought a kit I guess you don't have noise problems because you are using a circuit board. I will talk to my friend in MN and see if he had any problems. -- Chris Msg#:10162 *PROJECTS* 11-17-88 08:47:42 From: DONALD SIEGEL To: KEN DAVIDSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 7580 (BCC180) If you could also send me a copy of the manual addition on device drivers, i would appreciate it. I am also going to have some remote input/display "terminals" off the bcc180. Also has the BCC180 basic been upgraded or are we still current with version 1.00. I haven't noticed any bugs yet. just curious. Donald Siegel, 224 Paramount Pkwy, Kenmore, NY 14223 Thanks Don Msg#:10168 *PROJECTS* 11-17-88 09:25:29 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: DONALD SIEGEL (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 10162 (BCC180) I'll get the supplements sent out to you. The current version is still 1.00. I have some changes and additions I want to make once I get some time, but I don't know when they'll be ready. No mainstream bugs, just minor stuff and additional features. Msg#:10280 *PROJECTS* 11-21-88 12:55:59 From: DONALD SIEGEL To: KEN DAVIDSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 10168 (BCC180) THATS GOOD, AS I SAID IT HAS WORKED FINE SO FAR AND EVERYTIME I THINK I NEED A NEW FEATURE, IT IS ALREADY THERE IN SOME FORM. FOR CONTROLLING THE MODULES (SENDING COMMANDS) I'M PARING DOWN YOUR CODE (TRANSMIT) AND I WILL CALL IT FROM MY BASIC PROGRAM USING THE "SYSTEM" COMMAND AFTER I STORE THE APPROPRIATE PARAMETERS IN THE PROPER REGISTERS. THANKS FOR THE INFO THOUGH. DON Msg#:10173 *PROJECTS* 11-17-88 19:41:26 From: BILL WELCH To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: HOW TO PROGRAM 8751'S EPROM Hi. Ok, I am impressed by the mandelbrot engine, and I want to think about using the 8751 in a project I am designing. I have the experience (I hope), but am not familiar with these single chip solutions. Is there a previous project that describes burning the eprom, etc? Also, what is the basic "startup" cost to set up an environment to develop 8751 projects? I assume I can get a cross assembler from this system, so the unknown seems to be the eprom thing. thanks in advance, -bill welch uunet!ingr!zaiaz!bill (in case you can send mail to uucp net) Msg#:10245 *PROJECTS* 11-20-88 14:14:13 From: STEVE CIARCIA To: BILL WELCH (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 10173 (HOW TO PROGRAM 8751'S EPROM) We've been doing 8031/51/52/8751 stuff for quite a while. I suggest you start by reviewing my BYTE column for the last 2 years and the last year of CC INK. The CCSEP serial EPROM programmer presented in '86 can be modified to program 8751s (we have a write up on how to build an adapter board). --Steve Msg#:10336 *PROJECTS* 11-22-88 21:56:27 From: BILL WELCH To: ED NISLEY (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 10245 (HOW TO PROGRAM 8751'S EPROM) Steve, Thanks for your suggestion. I have been following your columns for years in BYTE, but just recently became interested in micro- controllers. In my work, I have been using 20&24 pals as micro- sequencers, which gives you a lot of speed, but very primitive programs. I am now looking at a project that doesn't need so much speed, but needs to be flexible. So, I think I will give the 8031 a try. I can easily program external proms already, and which to the 8751 later on. In my case, I will need several additional I/O ports, but from reading the data on the 8031, I can build memory mapped I/O devices, right? My basic project is to provide a really crude IBM XT (8 bit) bus master so that I can make use of some existing I/O cards from another host that doesn't have an IBM-PC interface. I hope to be able to talk to the host over the 8031's serial port, and then carry out its request for IBM-PC I/O, and so forth. If the serial port turns out to be too slow, maybe I can build a memory mapped 8031 port back to the host as well as the IBM-PC bus. Does the 8031 allow for I/O or memory to have wait states? I am a bit concerned about the various PC I/O cards and their use of the IOCHRDY. Of course, I can make the 8031 monitor the IOCHRDY in software. And by the way, you seem to have a couple different versions of the cross assemblers (for the 8031). Does it matter which one I use? Thanks in advance, -bill welch Msg#:10178 *PROJECTS* 11-17-88 23:13:08 From: JOHN DYBOWSKI To: ED NISLEY (Rcvd) Subj: DDT51 Do you have any plans for future upgrades to your debugger? I am especially interested in support for external RAM data dump, block disassembly of program memory as well as the capability of modifying internal and external RAM. Msg#:10670 *PROJECTS* 11-29-88 20:23:23 From: ED NISLEY To: JOHN DYBOWSKI (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 10178 (DDT51) Well, yes, but... We looked at what it would take to support the DDT-51 with a full-blown debugger and the task is just overwhelming. What we settled for is what you've got: DEBUG31, complete with source code. Anyone who'd like to use the hardware and software as a base can belly right up to the bar and sign up for the job. For example, Hogware did just that with their code for the ImageWise boards... Unfortunately, we've got to choose between extensive support for one project or a continuing series of new and interesting stuff. It's tough sometimes! Msg#:10182 *PROJECTS* 11-18-88 01:20:49 From: RICHARD MORGAN To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: DDT-51 P.C.B WANTED Steve, Has anyone, will anyone, make availble a P.C.B for the DDT-51 ? We Australians are a little bit lazy when it comes to wire wrapping. Thanks for the projects, keep up the fantastic work Rich. Msg#:10187 *PROJECTS* 11-18-88 08:48:16 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: RICHARD MORGAN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 10182 (DDT-51 P.C.B WANTED) We've received a preliminary PCB from a user of this BBS which appears to work just fine. We'll probably be pursuing making some PC board available, but there isn't any time frame established as of yet. Msg#:10256 *PROJECTS* 11-21-88 03:38:46 From: RICHARD MORGAN To: KEN DAVIDSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 10187 (DDT-51 P.C.B WANTED) Ken, Thank you for your prompt attention, I intend to be aregular of this BBS, so I expect that I will find out about any news. Seeya, Richard M. l Msg#:10224 *PROJECTS* 11-19-88 20:02:40 From: JONATHAN LYNN To: ED NISLEY (Rcvd) Subj: DDT-51 Ed, I built the DDT-51, and after a bit of debugging, I think I now have it working. One problem I am investigating right now is when I jump into the debugger, I never get the 8031 Halted signal, but I'll eventually find the problem. The reason I am writing is the following: You mentioned in your bugs file about cableing problems. I wanted to mentioned one that bothered me for some time. I used a 25 wire flat ribbon cable to connect the PC to the DDT-51, (about 4 feet) after many ours of debugging, I determined that I was getting crosstalk on the cable. I replaced it with shielding twisted pair, and the problems went away. Your might want to mention to others this problem. My compliments on an excellent project. And I look forward to using it and hearing more about it in INK. Thank You Jonathan Lynn Msg#:10671 *PROJECTS* 11-29-88 20:23:56 From: ED NISLEY To: JONATHAN LYNN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 10224 (DDT-51) Tah dah! Another user on the air! The latest version of the notes goes into some detail on the subject of getting the cables right. I'm afraid I blew it by not making enough of an issue of that right up front... Even shielded twisted pair may not be quite right unless you've made sure that each control signal is paired with a ground line. You can double up the data and address lines with no trouble, but make sure that the controls are isolated. That may get rid of your last remaining glitches. And there's more coming up in INK! Msg#:10246 *PROJECTS* 11-20-88 14:16:56 From: STEVE CIARCIA To: RICHARD MORGAN (Rcvd) Subj: DD-51 PRINTED CIRCUIT BOARD As Ken said, we have a PCB from a reader. If we can obtain the films, CCI will make a kit available soon. Any news about it will be published in CC INK. --Steve Msg#:10257 *PROJECTS* 11-21-88 03:40:27 From: RICHARD MORGAN To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 10246 (DD-51 PRINTED CIRCUIT BOARD) Ken, Thanks very much,have just subscribed to INK, look forward to any details re. PCB. Seeya, Richard M. Msg#:10254 *PROJECTS* 11-20-88 20:52:08 From: GERHARD HEINISCH To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: CCAT PROJECT (HELP!!) p)!!? CCAT project Steve Ciarcia (or anyone that can help)!!? CCAT project I intend on building the CCAT board that you (Steve Ciarcia) described in the Circuit Cellar article ("BYTE" September/October '87). This article descibed the constuction of an AT IBM-compatible computer motherboard on an expansion size board using a set of ASIC (ZyMOS POACH). Your (Steve Ciarcia) article was very informitive in descibing the functions and the basic explaination of the CCAT. I've made a list of componants that this project requires; and have been unable to identify, understand the function of,or locate (purchase) one of the componants. Its IC15 and is described as an 14pinChip (on page 138, BYTE; Oct'87) #"E21213"(NEC??part). The kit for this project is no longer available and request some more (ANY) help and/or information in purchasing the following items: E21213, POACH1, POACH2, POACH3 (ASICs) and 82S147. I would appreciate any advice.. thanx KHAN! PS:thats my handle on other BBSs (in California) Msg#:10259 *PROJECTS* 11-21-88 08:44:52 From: JEFF BACHIOCHI To: GERHARD HEINISCH (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 10254 (CCAT PROJECT (HELP!!)) . Gerhard, . The CCAT, as described in Steve's SEPT/OCT 1987 Circuit Cellar column, is being manufactured by MICROMINT. It is a six layer circuit board and not the kind of project that could be wire-wrapped in a weekend! . The E21213 is a 200ns delay line tapped at 40, 80, 120, 160 & 200ns. This is part is available from multiple sources but don't use the E21213 number. Just ask for a DIP delay line with the above mentioned taps. . Your cheapest solution might be MICROMINT for an assembled and tested unit because you will probably need the PAL preprogrammed, the Keyboard BIOS and the System BIOS. . jeff Msg#:10334 *PROJECTS* 11-22-88 18:38:32 From: CHRIS STARTTON To: BILL CURLEW (Rcvd) Subj: Z80 I am building a z80 based computer, but i cannot find a z80 assembler. do you know where i could get an inexpensive one (must support relocatable addressing). Msg#:10346 *PROJECTS* 11-23-88 08:07:38 From: BOB PADDOCK To: CHRIS STARTTON Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 10334 (Z80) What machine do you want to run your z80 asssembler on? SLR Systems of Butler PA selles a great z80 assembler. I don't have thier phone number here at the moment, but Information should have it. Or see one of their adds in Dr. Dobbs. Msg#:12529 *PROJECTS* 01-08-89 03:06:24 From: BILL CURLEW To: CHRIS STARTTON Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 10334 (Z80) The only z80 assembler I have ever used is the product for the TRS-80 MOD I computer. (GASP!!!). Yes folks, there are still uses for that old technology. There are several references to "shareware" and "free" assemblers in messages on this board. Poke around and see what you can find. I'll bet Ken Davidson knows where some are hidden. Bill Msg#:10339 *PROJECTS* 11-22-88 22:15:28 From: MARK BALCH To: ED NISLEY (Rcvd) Subj: SUPERCOMPUTER I have been reading your series in BYTE these past months about the supercomputer. While I don't plan to build it, your project has stimulated my imagination and interest. I have one question regarding the jumper block that allows for less than eight 8751s per card. In Part 3, you say that this block allows the chain-out line from each processor to be connected to the card's main chain-out line. I didn't find this in the schematic and don't understand how it works. Can you explain how the single jumper block can connect any processor's chain-out to the card's chain-out? And just for clarity, the figure 2 schematic on pages 330-331 does not have a connection dot between the main serial out line and the other outputs from the individual 8751 serial out buffers. Those buffers are the 7407s (ICs 3 and 4). I don't see how this is intentional being that without the without the connection, only the last two elements would be able to drive the serial out line. Since you are unfortunately leaving BYTE, can you make similar projects in INK? I am interested in multi-processor networks such as those used in parallel processing. Thanks in advance. Mark Msg#:10357 *PROJECTS* 11-23-88 10:00:52 From: STEVE CIARCIA To: MARK BALCH (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 10339 (SUPERCOMPUTER) Since Ed has become the resident Mandelbrot guru, I'll let him answer your questions. Regarding CC INK, I think you will see projects with the same technical level in INK ans we have been doing for BYTE. Only difference is that you only got 1 per issue in BYTE and you'll get more per issue in CC INK. --Steve Msg#:10455 *PROJECTS* 11-26-88 11:05:45 From: MARK BALCH To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 10357 (SUPERCOMPUTER) Alright. Thanks for the answer. I'll ask Ed, but first who is Ed? Mark Msg#:10488 *PROJECTS* 11-26-88 23:20:53 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: MARK BALCH (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 10455 (SUPERCOMPUTER) "Ed" is Ed Nisley. He did the software for the project. Since he checks in here once or twice a week, you should get a response to any message you send to him within a few days. Msg#:10673 *PROJECTS* 11-29-88 20:25:22 From: ED NISLEY To: MARK BALCH (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 10339 (SUPERCOMPUTER) The missing jumper is painfully simple... draw a 2x8 header, connect the card's chain-out line to all eight pins on the left side and connect one chain-out line from each processor to a pin on the right side. The jumper connects any chip to the card line; normally it's in the position for the 8th chip on the card. Sorry about the missing dot. Sigh. Schematics are our downfall around here... no matter how many people look 'em over, there's always something wrong. If you liked the columns in BYTE, you'll love INK! Msg#:10878 *PROJECTS* 12-03-88 12:34:15 From: MARK BALCH To: ED NISLEY (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 10673 (SUPERCOMPUTER) Thanks for the clarification. I was just confused because I didn't think of a 2x8 block. I was trying to picture a 2x1 block! Now it does sound *painfully* simple! It wasn't included on your computer's cards was it? I don't remember seeing it in the pictures. Oh, are circuit cellar projects wire-wrapped or solder wired? I have been soldering my things but now that I am getting into microprocessors, I want to look into wire-wrapping. Thanks, Mark Msg#:10388 *PROJECTS* 11-24-88 01:22:28 From: GERHARD HEINISCH To: JEFF BACHIOCHI (Rcvd) Subj: CCAT PROJECT (REPLY TO REPL MICROMINT price for the CCAT is to high ($750). A regular motherboard with compatible chips (ASCI) and the expansion slots costs about $400 plus about $250 for memory chips (512kbyte). Currently I'm an unemployed student, so those prices are out of reach. My major is electronics. That is the reason why i'm interested in building this curcuit. A friend of mine will help in constucting the multi layer curcuit board. I'm using AUTOCADD to help me in drafting the wiring. The cheapest solution would be to buy an CPU card; considering the potential problems and time involved in building, getting all the parts and debuging this AT CPU card. Your explaination of the "E21213" realy helps me a lot..thanx! Now i still have to find a place to get the ZyMos POACH chips... do you know of any sources? Thanx again... Gary Msg#:10426 *PROJECTS* 11-25-88 08:55:53 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: GERHARD HEINISCH (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 10388 (CCAT PROJECT (REPLY TO REPL) Yes, we know it's high. But it's not supposed to compete with the Taiwan clones that you can pick up on the surplus market. It is designed to be small in size and power consumption, which comes at a price. If all you want is a desktop clone, buy the cheapest you can find. If you want a small AT-compatible that fits in a specific size box and doesn't need the Hoover Dam to power, then you're usually willing to pay a slightly higher price. Msg#:10554 *PROJECTS* 11-28-88 09:18:13 From: JEFF BACHIOCHI To: GERHARD HEINISCH Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 10388 (CCAT PROJECT (REPLY TO REPL) Gerhard, Call MICROMINT for the pricing of POACH CHIP sets. 203-871-6170. jeff Msg#:10443 *PROJECTS* 11-25-88 22:49:54 From: ARNOLD BERKOWITZ To: ALL USERS Subj: SOUTHERN CALIFORNIA CC SIG Anyone living in southern CA (LA, ORange COunty, San DIego) interested in sharing ideas and projects based around CCI designs please contact me. I thing a Sig in this area would be very useful. My number is 619-421-8829 or write 1700 Sunny Crest Rd. Bonita, CA 92002 Msg#:10539 *PROJECTS* 11-28-88 06:55:50 From: GARY LEAR To: ARNOLD BERKOWITZ (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 10443 (SOUTHERN CALIFORNIA CC SIG) Let me have some specific ideas on the proposed activities of your SIG. --Gary Msg#:10606 *PROJECTS* 11-29-88 02:07:23 From: ARNOLD BERKOWITZ To: GARY LEAR (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 10539 (SOUTHERN CALIFORNIA CC SIG) Joint discussion of assembly problems and quirks regarding CCI projects. Applications of the projects in industry. Enhancements and creative upgrades. Perhaps we could meet one every 2 months. One month in LA another in San Diego, a third in Orange County perhaps Irvine. Msg#:10621 *PROJECTS* 11-29-88 08:19:30 From: GARY LEAR To: ARNOLD BERKOWITZ (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 10606 (SOUTHERN CALIFORNIA CC SIG) Sounds reasonable to me, and much more interesting than most of the other SIGs that I have seen. Where do you plan to meet in those areas? In a members home? Or perphaps in a hotel meeting room? Do you intend to set up a seperate BBS for the SIG? Please keep me informed as to the progress of this idea. Regards, Gary. Msg#:10892 *PROJECTS* 12-03-88 21:08:20 From: ARNOLD BERKOWITZ To: GARY LEAR (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 10621 (SOUTHERN CALIFORNIA CC SIG) I reterned your call Friday. Keep up the interest. Msg#:10903 *PROJECTS* 12-04-88 04:23:00 From: GARY LEAR To: ARNOLD BERKOWITZ (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 10892 (SOUTHERN CALIFORNIA CC SIG) When do you expect to have specifics? Do you currently have a projected date for starting the SIG? Maybe we could do some group (large or small) articles of our own. --Gary Msg#:10457 *PROJECTS* 11-26-88 11:14:49 From: MARK BALCH To: ALL Subj: 680X AND 680X0 ASSEMBLERS Does anyone know about relatively inexpensive assemblers for the 6800 and 68000 family? I need it to run on an IBM AT compatible. Currently, I don't need 68020 or 68030 instructions. I am looking specifically for the 6808, 68000 and 68010 and if possible Motorola microcontrollers. Thanks ahead of time Mark Msg#:10526 *PROJECTS* 11-28-88 00:04:08 From: TOM ARNOLD To: MARK BALCH (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 10457 (680X AND 680X0 ASSEMBLERS) Again, the BIT WIZ board, 312-935-6809, has a PD 68000 assembler. It's a hard chip to write one for from what I understand. Msg#:10540 *PROJECTS* 11-28-88 07:06:02 From: GARY LEAR To: MARK BALCH (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 10457 (680X AND 680X0 ASSEMBLERS) This question is asked so often that we should consider asking Ken to post it as a bulliten. Motorola has a BBS for distributing assemblers (actually cross assemblers) for their processor families (including the relatively new 68HC11 and other microcontrollers). This software is not the best or fastest in the world, but it is free. The number is (512) 440 - FREE (3733). The line is somewhat busy during the day. How about it Ken, since these are public domain could you make them available in the files section? Good luck Mark. --Gary Msg#:10548 *PROJECTS* 11-28-88 08:46:19 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: GARY LEAR (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 10540 (680X AND 680X0 ASSEMBLERS) As I started reading your message, I thought to myself, "I'd rather post the code than a bulletin pointing somewhere else." I'll make some time to call their board and raid the files area. It may take a few days, though. Msg#:10617 *PROJECTS* 11-29-88 07:58:41 From: GARY LEAR To: KEN DAVIDSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 10548 (680X AND 680X0 ASSEMBLERS) Thanks Ken. From the volume of requests that I have seen here I think it will be of benefit to alot of people. You may want to check for the source as well, I believe it was also available at one time (Motorola used an "universal assembler"). Regards, Gary. Msg#:10793 *PROJECTS* 12-01-88 17:22:13 From: TOM CURDA To: KEN DAVIDSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 10548 (680X AND 680X0 ASSEMBLERS) Ken, if your going to get the Motorola PD XASM stuff, you might consider also the cross-assemblers from Intel's BBS and National's BBS. I don't have Intels # handy; it's been mentioned here before. National's BBS # is 408-739-1162. They have support for their 455 chip, the COPS series, and a bunch of other potentially usable stuff. If you want, I have some of the National stuff, and I can upload it. Regards, --Tom Msg#:10828 *PROJECTS* 12-02-88 08:49:10 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: TOM CURDA (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 10793 (680X AND 680X0 ASSEMBLERS) Good idea. Thanks for the number. At least Intel and National are PC Pursuitable. I found that Motorola's isn't, so getting files from there may take longer. Whatever you could upload will help me out. Thanks. Msg#:10842 *PROJECTS* 12-02-88 11:40:29 From: TOM CURDA To: KEN DAVIDSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 10828 (680X AND 680X0 ASSEMBLERS) I've got some of the Motorola and National stuff already. I'll upload it in a few days, as soon as I can get it all together. I'll also see what I can do regarding the National and Motorola BBS's. --Tom Msg#:10879 *PROJECTS* 12-03-88 12:35:44 From: MARK BALCH To: TOM ARNOLD (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 10526 (680X AND 680X0 ASSEMBLERS) Thank you for the board's number. Did you give that answer a while ago to the same question? (re:again). Bye, Mark Msg#:10880 *PROJECTS* 12-03-88 12:38:07 From: MARK BALCH To: GARY LEAR (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 10540 (680X AND 680X0 ASSEMBLERS) Thanks alot. Sorry if I added to the list of people asking repetitive questions. I didn't find it in my message scans (mabye I didn't look hard enough.) so I asked. It wouldn't be a bad idea though to put those files here. I live in New York and call here long-distance, I would rather call Connecticuit long distance than Phoenix,AZ! Bye, Mark Msg#:10881 *PROJECTS* 12-03-88 12:38:44 From: MARK BALCH To: KEN DAVIDSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 10548 (680X AND 680X0 ASSEMBLERS) Thanks for your trouble! Mark Msg#:10888 *PROJECTS* 12-03-88 18:20:23 From: TOM ARNOLD To: MARK BALCH (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 10879 (680X AND 680X0 ASSEMBLERS) Actually, I posted it in response to a different message, related to the 68HC11 specifically. The guy who runs the board has had BIT WIZ license plates for a long time. He does a lot of 68xx(x) programming. Msg#:10901 *PROJECTS* 12-04-88 04:18:23 From: GARY LEAR To: MARK BALCH (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 10880 (680X AND 680X0 ASSEMBLERS) It is not a problem, I just wanted to make sure that Ken got the suggestion to post the assemblers. He sent me a message of his intent to do just that, however in the meantime some industrious soul has reportedly already done so. If I can be of any more help, please ask. --Gary Msg#:11066 *PROJECTS* 12-06-88 21:17:27 From: MARK BALCH To: TOM ARNOLD (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 10888 (680X AND 680X0 ASSEMBLERS) Ken uses 68xxx family? That's interesting. Mabye if I have problems, I can turn to him. What do you mean by 'BIT WIZ' liscense plates? Thanks, Mark Msg#:11067 *PROJECTS* 12-06-88 21:18:21 From: MARK BALCH To: GARY LEAR (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 10901 (680X AND 680X0 ASSEMBLERS) Thanks alot for the help. I'm going to check the directories for the programs and if they are there d/l them. Bye, Mark Msg#:11091 *PROJECTS* 12-07-88 07:11:06 From: GARY LEAR To: MARK BALCH (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 11067 (680X AND 680X0 ASSEMBLERS) No problem. Let me know how things work out. Regards, Gary. Msg#:11208 *PROJECTS* 12-09-88 16:42:19 From: MARK BALCH To: GARY LEAR (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 11091 (680X AND 680X0 ASSEMBLERS) Thanks. I'm gonna check the directory again for the assemblers. Mark Msg#:11227 *PROJECTS* 12-10-88 04:20:33 From: GARY LEAR To: MARK BALCH (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 11208 (680X AND 680X0 ASSEMBLERS) Always glad to help. --Gary Msg#:10459 *PROJECTS* 11-26-88 13:29:01 From: DAVID GOLDMAN To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: INFRARED REMOTE CONTROLLER PROJ Your article from Byte (Feb 87) suggests that the received signal could be run into the parallel port of an IBM clone. Has anyone written any software, a device driver to receive and interpret the signals from your infrared receiver? Msg#:10513 *PROJECTS* 11-27-88 13:39:39 From: STEVE CIARCIA To: DAVID GOLDMAN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 10459 (INFRARED REMOTE CONTROLLER PROJ) Bill Curlew did that software so you might want to leave him a message. I know it exists for the BCC-52 but I am not sure about a PC. One of the reasons we listed the logic flow, however, was so that the software could be easily written for any processor. --Steve Msg#:10460 *PROJECTS* 11-26-88 13:32:07 From: BOB ZIEGENHALS To: ALL Subj: BCC 180 EPROM I am in the middle of a project using BASIC-180 to control air pressure in an air-bed for immobile patients. I have a good EPROM programmer, so I did not purchase the EPROM daughterboard, but I cannot figure out how to use BASIC or the monitor ROM to dump a compiled BASIC program. I could take the easy way out and build or buy the board, but a quick response from someone who has figured this out would save me much trouble (and satisfy my curiosity). Thanks. Msg#:10489 *PROJECTS* 11-26-88 23:24:59 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: BOB ZIEGENHALS (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 10460 (BCC 180 EPROM) There is no way to use an outboard EPROM programmer with the ROM-based version of BASIC-180. If you want to do program development on the BCC180 and eventually burn an EPROM, you have to use the EPROM programmer daughterboard. You can use the disk-based compiler on a CP/M system to develop code that can be burned using any EPROM programmer. The ROM-based version was designed to be completely self-contained. Msg#:10580 *PROJECTS* 11-28-88 16:41:29 From: BOB ZIEGENHALS To: KEN DAVIDSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 10489 (BCC 180 EPROM) Ok, and thanks for the prompt reply. I thought that the compiled code might be in RAM where it could be dumped to the PC I'm using for a terminal, then it would be easy to dump to my programmer. I'll build it. Msg#:10519 *PROJECTS* 11-27-88 21:20:25 From: TOM KREYCHE To: ALL Subj: DDT-51 Steve, thanks for the ddt-51 article, it got my juices flowing for fixing problems on a couple projects. In the "Byte" article, the Intel literature reference was the "Embedded Controller Handbook." Jameco Electronics lists the same part # in their new catalog as "Intel Microcontroller Book (1988)," in two volumes. Also I picked up a decent book published by Sybex called "mastering Digital Device Control" by William Houghton, a beginning-intermediate book just right for the likes of me!! - tom Msg#:10542 *PROJECTS* 11-28-88 08:12:17 From: BRIAN JOSEPH To: TOM ARNOLD (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 8619 (Z8 DOWNLOADING) I have been using XTALK to upload and download files to my Z8 without a problem. Make sure that what ever program you use waits for the char to be echoed before yo send the next one. Also, make sure you look for the : before sending the next line. Msg#:10665 *PROJECTS* 11-29-88 20:10:56 From: TOM ARNOLD To: BRIAN JOSEPH (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 10542 (Z8 DOWNLOADING) Thanks for the input. I understand the nature of the problem; the limiting factor is the non-standard nature of my MS-DOS machine. I just gave up - as far as this project is concerned, and ordered a BCC52. It at least supports XON-XOFF, and if all else fails I can at least use eproms for mass storage instead of disks. Boyan 4.0, due out in January, has the necessary ASCII line protocal, and according to Justin Boyan will run on my machine. I've collected half a dozen shareware comm programs, and so far none does both. Msg#:10543 *PROJECTS* 11-28-88 08:24:57 From: BRIAN JOSEPH To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: PROGRAM THOSE EEPROMS... Steve, I was relaxing with CCC vol VI when I came across your article about TIMS. In that article, you haveok a schematic for a parallel port for a PC. In the text of the article, you said that you had some problems with it and didn't bother to figure out why. Did you EVER find out what wasn't working? I would like to use this to make a simple EEPROM programer. Also, if I wanted to{e able to insert and remove the EEPROM with the power to the computer on, could I just insert a relay into the power line for the 8255 and the EEPROM or would I need tri-state drivers for the data li{es from the 8255? Thanks. Brian. Msg#:10553 *PROJECTS* 11-28-88 09:17:00 From: STEVE CIARCIA To: BRIAN JOSEPH (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 10543 (PROGRAM THOSE EEPROMS...) Sorry, I don't remember the particular problem anymore. Perhaps I was dreaming :-) In any case, of course it would be best to tri-state all EPROM lines but most EPROM programmers only cut the power for insertion and removal. Have fun. --Steve Msg#:10608 *PROJECTS* 11-29-88 02:45:24 From: DAVID GOLDMAN To: BILL CURLEW (Rcvd) Subj: IRCOMM PROJECT You developed software for the infrared remote controller project in the feb 87 issue of byte for the BCC-52. Has anyone revised this software for the IBM clones? I'm building the remote controller to help novice computer users run menu driven software. Thank-you. Msg#:12530 *PROJECTS* 01-08-89 03:09:25 From: BILL CURLEW To: DAVID GOLDMAN Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 10608 (IRCOMM PROJECT) Hi, If the code I wrote was ever "modified" for the IBM clones, I am unaware of it. Since I tend to write assembler in a sort of "RISC" it should be pretty straight forward to convert over. I find that using a limited subset of instructions that are common to most micros makes coding and debugging much easier. Bill Msg#:10720 *PROJECTS* 11-30-88 12:18:18 From: BOB PADDOCK To: ED NISLEY (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 10669 (MANDLEBROT ENGINE) What about the Crystal-Ball from the April 1989 issue of Ink? Msg#:10914 *PROJECTS* 12-04-88 09:20:52 From: ED NISLEY To: BOB PADDOCK (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 10720 (MANDLEBROT ENGINE) I could say something about "Garbage In, Garbage Out" but... Msg#:10743 *PROJECTS* 11-30-88 21:59:08 From: STEVEN HIRSCH To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: LM359?? Steve, we are attempting to build up a 32x8 version of your AV/MUX project. So far, so good, despite the best efforts of RCA/GE/Harris (or whatever they are..) to not cooperate with samples or information. However, you had specified an LM359 wide-bandwidth op-amp for the video buffer. Unfortunately, no one has ever heard of this device! Was this a misprint, is the device obselete, or can you suggest a source or alternate? Help! Msg#:10762 *PROJECTS* 12-01-88 08:20:37 From: GARY LEAR To: STEVEN HIRSCH (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 10743 (LM359??) The LM359 is a great and wonderful high speed Norton amplifier (also known as a CDA or current differencing amp) and is made by National Semiconductor. Specifications may be found in the new National Linear Databook Volume 2, pg. 2-401. This part is useful in that it is a high frequency version of the LM3900 and is thus suitable for single supply operation. Other uses than video amps include; integrators, photo-diode amplifiers, high Q filters, and other high frequency AC applications. Although the military version of this part is not really available any longer, commercial parts can be readily obtained from National directly or even through hobbiest distribution channels (Digi-Key for example carries it for approximately $2.20). In case you are wondering, I *do not* work for National, but I have used this part off and on for several years (as recently as two months ago) with good success. Good luck. Regards, Gary Msg#:10775 *PROJECTS* 12-01-88 10:00:23 From: STEVE CIARCIA To: STEVEN HIRSCH (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 10743 (LM359??) Gary's right. It is a pretty neat amp. This should also be a lesson that RCA/GE/Harris don't want to tell you about other brand parts if they don't have a cross. Any part starting with "LM" is made by National Semiconductor. -Steve Msg#:10787 *PROJECTS* 12-01-88 12:23:34 From: BOB PADDOCK To: STEVEN HIRSCH (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 10775 (LM359??) Mitel makes a pin compatible part to the 74HC2206, the MT8809. They also make a 8 x 12 (MT8812) and 8 x 16 (MT8816) part. The California number for them is (408) 249-2111. Msg#:10805 *PROJECTS* 12-01-88 23:15:46 From: STEVEN HIRSCH To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 10775 (LM359??) Gosh! I didn't mean to imply that I thought the chip was an RCA/GE/Harris product.. I knew it was from National. However, the majority of the jobbers I spoke with implied that it was 'special order' (usually the kiss of death for speedy procurement). Finally found a mess of them at Gerber Electronics in Mass. I am going to build up a 32x8 switcher on four A-bus cards. A-Buss looks fairly interesting, and dovetails well with the system we are expanding. Thanks to you for the speedy response. Will keep the system here posted if I make any startling discoveries during the course of this project. CUL. Msg#:10827 *PROJECTS* 12-02-88 07:53:09 From: BOB PADDOCK To: STEVEN HIRSCH (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 10805 (LM359??) Please read message #10787, that I ment for you (I sent it to the wrong person, sorry). Msg#:10747 *PROJECTS* 11-30-88 23:22:01 From: RANDY REITZ To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: PARALLEL TO SERIAL CONVERSION I'm new here so this question may not be addressed properly. My question has to do with finding a simple (not buffered) parallel to serial converter for my PC. I want to communicate with a printer that is more than 10 feet away, so I want to use a serial connection. However, I still want to use my PC's parallel port. I tried a few comptuer stores to find that these things aren't sold anymore (no demand). So I'll build one. My question is for a reference that may be in an old Circuit Cellar column in an old BYTE. I will appreciate if you can ge me an answer or forward this to someone who can. Thanks for your help. Msg#:10776 *PROJECTS* 12-01-88 10:02:10 From: STEVE CIARCIA To: RANDY REITZ (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 10747 (PARALLEL TO SERIAL CONVERSION) Circuit Cellar vol I has a circuit for a simple serial to parallel and parallel to serial converter. --Steve Msg#:10783 *PROJECTS* 12-01-88 11:57:15 From: NEIL CHERRY To: RANDY REITZ (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 10747 (PARALLEL TO SERIAL CONVERSION) I have the plans to a p to s or s to p converter. it uses a AY-3-1015D to do the conversion. I never tested it and it may need to be debugged a little bit. OOps looks like I lost the schematic but I'll design a new one it's very simple. NJC. Msg#:11174 *PROJECTS* 12-08-88 23:38:21 From: RANDY REITZ To: NEIL CHERRY (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 10783 (PARALLEL TO SERIAL CONVERSION) Thanks for your response. Steve Ciacria suggest I look at Circuit Cellar volume 1. I'll do that, so you don't need to redesign the lost schematic. Msg#:11192 *PROJECTS* 12-09-88 09:13:46 From: NEIL CHERRY To: RANDY REITZ (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 11174 (PARALLEL TO SERIAL CONVERSION) OK but I'll do it anyway just an exercise in electronics. Thats because I deal with software people who don't care about hardware. These people are impossible to talk tech with. Msg#:10788 *PROJECTS* 12-01-88 16:02:29 From: CHUCK PATTEN To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: 8751 PROGRAMMER Hi Steve, I had previously asked if you planned to have a circuit for programming the 8751 on a programmer as if it were a 2732A prom, but some how I missed your reply. Would you mind doing it again? Thanks. Also, I have about 20 8751's on hand, if you need a few to help keep costs low. CBP. Msg#:10833 *PROJECTS* 12-02-88 09:17:19 From: STEVE CIARCIA To: CHUCK PATTEN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 10788 (8751 PROGRAMMER) Jeff Bachiochi's "From the Bench" column in the January CC INK (#7) will have a description of a modification to the CC serial EPROM Programmer to program 8751 EPROMs. --Steve Msg#:11112 *PROJECTS* 12-07-88 13:35:56 From: CHUCK PATTEN To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 10833 (8751 PROGRAMMER) Thanks, will it work in other programmers? such as Data I/O 29's? Msg#:11149 *PROJECTS* 12-08-88 09:43:55 From: STEVE CIARCIA To: CHUCK PATTEN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 11112 (8751 PROGRAMMER) Yes and know. Provided the other programmer can be set for the proper Vpp voltage and 2732A-like programming timing, the adapter can be used elsewhere. Jeff Bachiochi would be the better person to ask for specifics, however. We guarantee it to work on the CCSEP. --Steve Msg#:10800 *PROJECTS* 12-01-88 21:19:30 From: JOSEPH D GRADECKI To: ALL Subj: CRYSTAL I HAVE A QUESTION TO ANYONE WHO CAN ANSWER. CONCERNING THE HAL CIRCUIT. ONE THE 8031 CRYSTAL SECTION. MUST THE CRYSTAL BE AN 11.0592 IN ORDER FOR THE PROCESSOR TO OPERATE? THE REASON I ASK IS I HAVE CONSTRUCTED THE CPU AND EPROM PART OF THE DIAGRAM WITH AN LED CONNECTED TO THE TRANSMIT PIN. WITH A 10 MHZ CRYSTAL AND 27 PF CAPACITORS, THE CPU DOES NOT OPERATE. BUT WITH MY LOGIC PROBE, IF I TOUCH PIN 19 OF THE CPU, THE CPU WILL TAKE OFF AND THE LED WILL FLICKER AS APPROPRIATE TO THE PROGRAM I HAVE IN THE EPROM. I HAVE CHECKED MY WIRING AND THE 8031 IS NEW. IS IT THE FACT THAT I AM NOT USING THE 11.0592 CRYSTAL OR HAVE I COMPLETELY MISSED SOMETHING. ANY HELP WOULD BE APPRECIATED. JOSEPH D GRADECKI Msg#:10824 *PROJECTS* 12-02-88 03:51:24 From: GARY LEAR To: JOSEPH D GRADECKI (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 10800 (CRYSTAL) It sounds as if the capacitors in your PI network need to be changed. The calculations needed to precisely determine the caps required are fairly formidable (and I don't know them offhand :-) ), but since your logic probe causes the oscillator to run (this changes the capacitance) it might be worthwhile to change one of the capacitors *slightly*, say to 33 pF. Ten MHz is well within the specified operating range of the processor, which is 1.2 MHz to 12 MHz for a standard part. Good luck! Regards, Gary P.S. If you really want to know what the calculations are, RCA has a good app note on the subject: ICAN-6539 (at least I think that is the number :-) ). Msg#:10838 *PROJECTS* 12-02-88 09:45:55 From: STEVE CIARCIA To: JOSEPH D GRADECKI (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 10800 (CRYSTAL) The average 8031 (actually you should be using an 80C31 for battery operation) is good for 1-12 MHz. 11.0592 is chosen so that the serial baud rate is correct. Another crystal frequency will work but the data rates may be screwed up. 11.05 MHz crystals can be ordered from CCI at 203-875-2751. We use this crystal freq on all 8031/51/52 projects around here. --Steve Msg#:10977 *PROJECTS* 12-05-88 10:06:02 From: JEFF BACHIOCHI To: JOSEPH D GRADECKI (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 10800 (CRYSTAL) Joseph, Not only is the BAUD RATE calculated from the XTAL FREQ, but all of the timing for HAL! You won't get channel samples at the proper 1/64 sec interval. This will play havoc with the FFTs, which expect the sampling every 1/64 sec. jeff Msg#:10802 *PROJECTS* 12-01-88 21:49:11 From: TOM KREYCHE To: ALL Subj: DDT-51 After calling the Intel literature department, a couple Intel Sales Offices and several Intel distributors, I've discovered the following information on official Intel documentation for the 8051 family: The 1988 manuals are out of print and unobtainable from the Intel literature department. They are very scarce at Sales Offices and the distributers. I was able to obtain a set from the Santa Clara, California Sales Office, without charge. They have very few sets left. All the Intel folks I talked to were extremely helpful and friendly! For further information: Intel Literature Sales, P.O. Box 58130, Santa Clara, California 95052-8130, Ph. 800-548-4725. The 1989 manuals will not be available until late January, early February. It will probably consist of a 3-volume set. The 1988 manuals of interest consist of the following: Embedded Control Applications - 270535-001 Embedded Controller Handbook - 210918-006 Volume I - 8 bit Volume II - 16 bit MCS-51 Macro Assembler User's Guide - 9800937 The following manual mentioned in the Embedded Control Applications has been incorporated into the 1988 manuals and not available separately: MCS-51 Family User's Manual - 121517 /* tom kreyche */ Reply has been deleted Msg#:10826 *PROJECTS* 12-02-88 05:48:58 From: GARY LEAR To: JOSEPH GRADECKI Subj: CONTINUATION OF MSG #10824 (XTAL) Joseph, My curiousity was aroused by my earlier (and perphaps somewhat erroneous) message. According to my Intel databooks, the capacitors are not critical in either value or performance specifications. In fact, if precise frequency of operation is not important the caps may range from 30-80 pF. Although I have not reread it in detail, Intel has an application note that is probably more specific (and thus potentially more valuable to you) than the RCA one: AP-155. It may be found in the back of some Intel microcontroller books. My revised opinion would include suggesting that you check this app note for specific crystal requirements. It may be that your xtal is of an improper cut to insure reliable startup (this does not mean that the cap change I mentioned will not work, but Intel says it is not necessary). Intel also lists a BASIC program as part of the app note to provide a guide for selecting the required capacitors. I must appologize for any confusion my earlier message may have given you and I hope this one helps more. If you have any problems finding the app note, please let me know and I will send you the pertinent info. Regards, Gary. Msg#:10872 *PROJECTS* 12-03-88 10:26:37 From: JOHN DYBOWSKI To: ED NISLEY (Rcvd) Subj: DDT-51 If the target system is set up to access program memory using PSEN only (RD/PSEN not gated together) KERNEL does not return the correct values for the OPCODE and the original breakpoint address. This can be corrected by using the sequence: CLR A, MOVC A,@A+DPTR. These accesses occur at "notstep" and "dumpram" respectiveley. Also in sysctrls.p the IRQctr does not overflow properly when incremented past 255. A test for this particular case should be made and the count can then be adjusted. Msg#:10913 *PROJECTS* 12-04-88 09:20:14 From: ED NISLEY To: JOHN DYBOWSKI (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 10872 (DDT-51) Well, believe it or not, we decided that EVERYBODY would be using the gate to combine PSEN and RD... so I guess that's a feature instead of a bug... but it's worth fixing anyway. And I'll fix the interrupt counter (which is a genuine bug, not a feature) posthaste. Sorry about that. It's obvious that I tend to have short debugging sessions, isn't it? Msg#:10928 *PROJECTS* 12-04-88 15:38:47 From: ED NISLEY To: JOHN DYBOWSKI (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 10872 (DDT-51) For those of you with target systems that don't combine PSEN and RD, read on... There are many places in KERNEL.ASM where I used MOVX A,@DPTR instead of CLR A MOVC A,@A+DPTR Do a search on MOVX and install the fix as needed. Make sure you change ALL of them or things will stop working in mysterious and wonderful ways. In SYSCTRLS.P it turns out that I used Lo(IRQctr+1) in, well, almost all places it was needed. Do a search on all the places where IRQctr gets assigned and stick Lo() in all the places I didn't... I'll check these out on a PC board version of DDT-51 (stay tuned!) and upload the changes when I'm sure they're OK. Msg#:10875 *PROJECTS* 12-03-88 12:16:28 From: JONATHAN LYNN To: ED NISLEY (Rcvd) Subj: DDT-51 Ed, I'm still having a little problem getting my DDT-51 up and running, and was wondering if you could help. On the last test of tester - TARGET6, I get the following errors on the Target Ram verify: Addr 00FF is FF should be F7 ..... Addr 01FF is FF should be F7 .... continues to: Addr 07FF is FF should be F7 I traced it to the fact that during the write to debug ram, the *WR line on the clip was being toggled. After looking through the code, I couldn't find any place that specifically disabled *CTLS TO 8031 during writes to the debug RAM, or addresses greater than 8000. This only occurs on the test if the scramble value is not equal to 0. Whats the deal? Is something screwy, or should the *WR line be disabled when the writes are to debug RAM? Any help would be greatly appreciated, because I'm going nuts trying to resolve this one. Thanks, Jon Msg#:10912 *PROJECTS* 12-04-88 09:19:29 From: ED NISLEY To: JONATHAN LYNN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 10875 (DDT-51) Ah Ha! It sounds like the address decoder you're using in the target system isn't working. Remember that the target RAM should start around 0000 and run to 1FFF (for an 8Kx8 chip, anyway); it should NOT be decoded at 8000-9FFF where the Debug RAM lives. The WR line can wiggle all it wants as long as the chip isn't enabled. If the CE line on your target RAM is active while the Debug RAM is written, you've found your problem. It also sounds like you're either not writing anything into the Target RAM or not reading anything back from it, so (after you check out CE) make sure that the right signals are active at the right times during reads. You might want to move all this to the projects message area so everybody can benefit from your problems. No need for shame around here -- we all make mistakes! Msg#:10983 *PROJECTS* 12-05-88 11:15:04 From: JONATHAN LYNN To: ED NISLEY (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 10912 (DDT-51) Ed, I found the problem, it was what you had said about the address decoding on the target system. A couple of logic gates did the trick. I didn't know that these messages weren't in public view. In the future, I'll send messages through the projects board. Thanks for all you help Jon Msg#:10877 *PROJECTS* 12-03-88 12:31:01 From: MARK BALCH To: KEN DAVIDSON (Rcvd) Subj: INK SUBSCRIPTIONS Ken, Thanks for the info. I later discovered this after re-reading the article. I have another question about INK subscription policy. Today I received my invoice in the mail and it said the expiration date was July 1989! Isn't INK published bimonthly? And you get 6 issues per year? July 89 is less than a year. Can you explain this to me? My only issue was the last one (The green cover with Steve's home-surveilance system on it). Thanks, Mark Msg#:10958 *PROJECTS* 12-05-88 08:50:09 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: MARK BALCH (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 10877 (INK SUBSCRIPTIONS) The green-covered issue was issues #5, September/October. That means your subscription expires with the July/August 1989 issue, which corresponds to the July '89 date on your label. It is precisely because of the bimonthly nature of the magazine that caused the confusion. Msg#:11068 *PROJECTS* 12-06-88 21:19:37 From: MARK BALCH To: KEN DAVIDSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 10958 (INK SUBSCRIPTIONS) Ok, I just got confused. They must have listed only the first month of the issue's date and I got confused. So really I will be getting 12 months worth. Thanks for the help, Mark Msg#:10900 *PROJECTS* 12-04-88 03:31:17 From: FRANK KUECHMANN To: RANDY REITZ (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSSG 10747 There was a circuit for a UART-based parallel-to-serial converter in the Sept '85 issue of BYTE. If you give me an address, I can send you a schematic for a 6402 UART-based p-to-s circuit. I use it to drive a serial printer through the parallel port of an NEC8201A. Msg#:11175 *PROJECTS* 12-08-88 23:40:59 From: RANDY REITZ To: FRANK KUECHMANN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 10900 (REPLY TO MSSG 10747) Frank, thanks for your reply. What you mentioned is exactly what I want to do. I have a Toshiba 1200 laptop with only one serial port. I want to use the parallel port to drive a printer over a serial link so the laptop's serial port can be used for a modem or mouse. My address is Randy Reitz 551 Brighton Dr. Wheaton, IL. 60187 Thanks again. Msg#:11783 *PROJECTS* 12-21-88 00:26:06 From: FRANK KUECHMANN To: RANDY REITZ Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 11175 (REPLY TO MSSG 10747) Randy -- the circuit diagram has been sent. Have fun. --Frank Msg#:10938 *PROJECTS* 12-04-88 20:12:34 From: HERB ROSENTHAL To: ALL Subj: VOL 6 EPROM PROGRAMMER CELLAR VOL 6, "SERIAL EPROM PROGRAMMER"..a few questions, if you please.... Quite interested in building the EPROM Programmer, but should have these questions answered first: 1. Are there any corrections, changes or updates for either the hardware or software, since publication? ross over from the DOS 5" disk to the MAC 3" disk? Msg#:10971 *PROJECTS* 12-05-88 09:26:22 From: STEVE CIARCIA To: HERB ROSENTHAL Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 10938 (VOL 6 EPROM PROGRAMMER) The answer is yes and no. Yes, there were a couple schematic goofs in the original article but no, they are not in CCC Vol VI (the Circuit Cellar Books always contain any corrections we find). I believe the software is still on this BBS under the Feb '85 project and that software contains a few improvements too. --Steve Msg#:10939 *PROJECTS* 12-04-88 20:14:35 From: HERB ROSENTHAL To: ALL Subj: VOL 6 EPROM BURNER CELLAR VOL 6, "SERIAL EPROM PROGRAMMER"..a few questions, if you please.... Quite interested in building the EPROM Programmer, but should have these questions answered first: 1. Are there any corrections, changes or updates for either the hardware or software, since publication? 2. Will the BASIC program, as written, run on the MACINTOSH if re-done on a 3" disk? Does the command "OPEN COM1. . . ", etc, in fact, open the serial port for read and write? I have both MS BASIC 2.0 and MS QuickBASIC, and could run the program on either. Don't see reference to serial port acquisition in the manuals, though. 3. Is there a copy of the program out there, somewhere, on 3" disk for the MAC already, or could I pay someone (in New Mexican chili peppers, red or green) to cross over from the DOS 5" disk to the MAC 3" disk? 4. Appreciate comments on the finished project. I need to program an ocassional look-up-table for ham radio projects such as keyers, keyboards, etc. Not for high production programming. Probably stick with the 2716, mostly. Would like to have a 6116 RAM, switchable with the EPROM, to test the programming results before the EPROM is burned...hardware selectable, etc. Thanks, Herbert M. Rosenthal 10508 Karen Ave NE Albuquerque, NM 87111 signon: hrosen Msg#:10987 *PROJECTS* 12-05-88 13:07:01 From: JONATHAN LYNN To: ED NISLEY (Rcvd) Subj: 8031 TARGET SYSTEMS Ed, It's me again, I was wondering after reading you message about combining the PSEN and RD signals, if there is some advantage to this when designing the target board? How should they be combined? AND, OR, etc. Thanks Jon. Msg#:11297 *PROJECTS* 12-11-88 19:21:18 From: ED NISLEY To: JONATHAN LYNN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 10987 (8031 TARGET SYSTEMS) The 8051 can address up to 64K of program and 64K of data: PSEN enables the program EPROM (or RAM, if you're using DDT-51) and RD enables the data RAM. Combining the two signals means that you can have a total of 64K of program and data divided as you see fit. The 8051 instruction set is not, to put it gently, orthogonal, so the same instructions that fetch data from the program memory don't work for data memory. Similarly, there's no way to write into program memory (ordinarily it would be a ROM, so this isn't a big oversight for normal 8051 appliations). Combining the spaces solves some of these problems and has few disadvantages, so that's the way we generally do it. The logic needed to combine the signals is a negative-OR gate, which is the same as a positive-AND with inverted inputs and outputs. You'll find an LS08 somewhere on the schematics with PSEN and RD going in and the combined signal going out to enable the EPROMs and RAMs. Msg#:11345 *PROJECTS* 12-12-88 10:31:54 From: JONATHAN LYNN To: ED NISLEY (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 11297 (8031 TARGET SYSTEMS) Thanks, That was the response I was looking for. I'll think it over, and probably combine the two address spaces. Thanks Again Jon. Msg#:12536 *PROJECTS* 01-08-89 07:12:31 From: BILL CURLEW To: ED NISLEY (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 11297 (8031 TARGET SYSTEMS) Ed, You can move into code memory by using the MOVC command, which is the code memory alter-ego of the MOVX command. The only difference between them is the use of the ACC reg as an index as well as the source/dest of the data byte transferred. Bill Msg#:11001 *PROJECTS* 12-05-88 16:40:52 From: TOM CURDA To: ED NISLEY (Rcvd) Subj: DDT-51 Is it necessary to have an 8031 target system in order to get the DDT-51 tested and operating? I'd like to build the DDT-51, but I hate to have to also build some kind of target system board, and then try to get the whole mess working. What I'm concerned about is the possibility of a bug on the target board interfering with checkout of the DDT-51. Any suggestions ?? Thanks for your help. Regards, --Tom Msg#:11046 *PROJECTS* 12-06-88 10:34:14 From: STEVE CIARCIA To: TOM CURDA (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 11001 (DDT-51) There will be a DDT-51 PC board kit offered in the January CC INK. --Steve Msg#:11055 *PROJECTS* 12-06-88 11:50:47 From: TOM CURDA To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 11046 (DDT-51) Thanks, I'll be looking forward to it. Msg#:11298 *PROJECTS* 12-11-88 19:21:53 From: ED NISLEY To: TOM CURDA (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 11001 (DDT-51) You don't really need a target system, but it's helpful. The TESTER code will try to exercise the logic DDT-51 needs on the other end of the DIP clip, but you can bypass those tests if there's nothing out there. (TESTER has some prompts that will clue you in when it's time to connect the target system; if you don't have one you just bang Ctrl-Break and give up). You can start out with just a DDT-51 board and run the applicable parts of TESTER; that should indicate when you've got that hunk working. The next step is to build a (simple!) target system and check that out with TESTER. Once TESTER agrees that everything is OK, you can try firing up DEBUG31 and downloading the 8031 kernel code. If you can single step through that, you're pretty much home free. Msg#:11473 *PROJECTS* 12-14-88 11:03:55 From: TOM CURDA To: ED NISLEY (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 11298 (DDT-51) I just got my latest issue of INK, and I noticed the simple target test setup. I think this is what I need. Thanks for the help and quick reply. --Tom Msg#:11494 *PROJECTS* 12-14-88 21:01:17 From: ED NISLEY To: TOM CURDA (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 11473 (DDT-51) But, do note the gate that fell off the schematic... it's the one that combines PSEN and RD for the EPROM OE. Msg#:11589 *PROJECTS* 12-16-88 13:37:05 From: TOM CURDA To: ED NISLEY (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 11494 (DDT-51) You mean the one that fell off at the point of no return ? :-) Msg#:11059 *PROJECTS* 12-06-88 15:17:04 From: DAVID K. MERRIMAN To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: SERIAL EPROM PROGRAMMER Steve: am building the Serial EPROM Programmer from Vol 6 of C^3; as a supplemental project, I am considering builing my own EPROM eraser. Would like to know the feasibility of using an incandescent-type UV bulb; such as those sold in novelty shops as "black lights". I suspect that one would work (they're usually about 60W), but want to be reassured. I don't have any problem with having to run it for several hours (or overnight) to erase my chips. I realize that there would be a lot of the light energy wasted as heat, but building my own would still be cheaper than buying a commercial unit- the one I'm planning would handle up to 12 EPROMs at a whack. Your thoughts and/or suggestions? Thanks...... David Merriman Msg#:11094 *PROJECTS* 12-07-88 07:39:29 From: GARY LEAR To: DAVID K. MERRIMAN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 11059 (SERIAL EPROM PROGRAMMER) You can generally use a "germicidal" type of fluorescent lamp. One of the small (15-20 watt) types will work satisfactorily, if it is placed an inch or so from the EPROM window. Integrated dose (related to your comment of overnight exposure) is only a partial requirement, you must also insure that enough of the correct wavelength strikes the surface. Intel has some of these specifics listed in their data books. BTW, the incandescent type of bulb is not generally advisable due to the excessive heat generated. As one last comment, your bulb should be enclosed in a light tight box with interlocks, the light from this wavelength bulb can be harmful to your eyes. Good luck! --Gary Msg#:11102 *PROJECTS* 12-07-88 09:16:39 From: STEVE CIARCIA To: DAVID K. MERRIMAN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 11059 (SERIAL EPROM PROGRAMMER) Gary pretty much said everything. I wouldn't use an incandescent bulb. --Steve Msg#:11117 *PROJECTS* 12-07-88 15:55:19 From: DAVID K. MERRIMAN To: GARY LEAR (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 11094 (SERIAL EPROM PROGRAMMER) Gary- Thanks for your input; as a matter of fact I did know to include some interlocks. One Last Question: where might I find one of those germicidal lamps you mentioned? Any guidelines for exposure duration? I'd be glad to send a copy of the schematic and some photos of the completed project, if you'd like..... something like this might make a worthwhile article in INK or (dare I say it?) Circuit Cellar in (gasp!) BYTE. Again, thanks. Dave :-) Msg#:11118 *PROJECTS* 12-07-88 15:56:31 From: DAVID K. MERRIMAN To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 11102 (SERIAL EPROM PROGRAMMER) Steve- Thanks for getting back to me, along with Gary. Pls see my reply to him..... TNX Dave :-) Msg#:11124 *PROJECTS* 12-07-88 16:52:30 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: DAVID K. MERRIMAN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 11117 (SERIAL EPROM PROGRAMMER) Don't hold your breath too long waiting to see it in BYTE, especially since there is no more Circuit Cellar in BYTE. December was the last article. Msg#:11180 *PROJECTS* 12-09-88 03:57:23 From: GARY LEAR To: DAVID K. MERRIMAN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 11117 (SERIAL EPROM PROGRAMMER) Dave, it almost sounds as if you weren't aware that Steve (and thus Circuit Cellar) are no longer a part of that unmentionable publication (BYTE). :-) December 1988 ended an era that fortunately for us is being carried on by Steve and others in CCInk. As to your other question, I have an eraser that I built in an old breadbox (Tupperware, I think), but I don't recall where I got the tube. As a guess, you might try a hospital supply type of place or I hear that *some* of the grow lamps extend to the proper wavelength. I will check on my tube and get back to you. It does sound like a good article subject (I will also check the exposure times). Regards, Gary Msg#:11197 *PROJECTS* 12-09-88 10:15:33 From: DAVID K. MERRIMAN To: KEN DAVIDSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 11124 (SERIAL EPROM PROGRAMMER) (mumble, mumble, mumble) I like the magazine, but the first things that I always read in it were C^3 and Jerry Pournell's column. If the yutzes in charge of Byte now are being such nuisances, I wonder how long it will be before they chase Pournell off- from his articles, I've gotten the idea that he doesn't have a real high tolerance for Male Bovine Effluent..... Oh, well; now I'm >really< motivated to subscribe to INK!!! Msg#:11113 *PROJECTS* 12-07-88 13:41:25 From: CHUCK PATTEN To: JEFF BACHIOCHI (Rcvd) Subj: 8751 PROGRAMMER Jeff, Steve Ciarcia by way of a reply to my inquiry about 8751 programming mentioned that you are writing an article for the Jan CCInk to modify the serial programmer. I don't have one of those as I have access to a DATA I/O 22 and 29B programmer. Will your add on work with those? Or could it be easily modified? thanks in advance for your help. Msg#:11195 *PROJECTS* 12-09-88 10:03:38 From: JEFF BACHIOCHI To: CHUCK PATTEN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 11113 (8751 PROGRAMMER) Chuck, Unfortunately the socket configuration for programming a 2732 is a bit different from a 2764. The adapter I've discussed is for a 28 pin layout (2764) and requires customizing the programming parameters of the SEP for 8751, 87C51 and 8751BH. However 8752BH and 87C252BH (87C51FA) can be programmed in a programmer without customization. The adapter I've discribed costs about $10.00 to build. $125.00 will get you an adapter for programming 8751s on any programmer. Check the back ADs of most mags which cover micros. jeff Msg#:11377 *PROJECTS* 12-12-88 18:15:45 From: CHUCK PATTEN To: JEFF BACHIOCHI (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 11195 (8751 PROGRAMMER) Ok, thanks. the programmer I have access to will program about anything, so I thinkI can make it work. Thanks for your help. I'm looking forward to January's issue. Msg#:11144 *PROJECTS* 12-07-88 22:33:40 From: TIM FANNIN To: ED NISLEY (Rcvd) Subj: MANDELBROT Steve, . . In your last Byte article you used DTR as a reset pin for your . Supermultimicrocomputer (Mandelbrot Engine). I have two questions . . . 1. How did you toggle the DTR pin? . . . 2. How did you communicate with the engine without toggling the . DTR pin . . One more thing: I did not think I would say this about any . publication but it would be nice to see some more advertisements in . CCI. Not clone adds, like many other nameless magazines, but more . advertisements for electronic equipment like scopes, chips, cross . assemblers, cross compilers, and more of the same that is in there . now. . . Thanx in Advance . Tim. F. Msg#:11299 *PROJECTS* 12-11-88 19:22:25 From: ED NISLEY To: TIM FANNIN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 11144 (MANDELBROT) Turns out that a program can twiddle the DTR pin using one of the bits in the serial port. Take a look in SERIAL.C at the function PulseReset for details. It's just a matter of setting one bit in an output port! Although some people don't like advertisements, I do most of my buying through the mail... and ads are the only way I find out what's available and where to buy it. There will certainly be more ads, but Steve and Curt will try to enlarge the magazine rather than just give more space to ads. Look for a bigger magazine with more ads and LOTS more articles in '89! Msg#:11153 *PROJECTS* 12-08-88 10:10:48 From: STEVE CIARCIA To: TIM FANNIN (Rcvd) Subj: INK ADVERTISING I forwarded your message to Ed. He's the Mandelbrot maven these days and probably remembers better why we did things the way we did. Regarding CC INK advertising, it is a chicken and egg situation. Unless you have an existing magazine with advertisers that can be easily transfered to a new publication, you have to start from scratch and build a reputation. Because so many new publications fail or take years to get more than 5,000 circulation without dumping $2 million into promotion, advertisers tend to wait to see if you are real. Now that we have 25,000 circulation in LESS THAN ONE YEAR advertisers will take CC INK seriously and you will see more ads (in case any of you are naive, advertising pays for the publication of a magazine, not subscription revenue. It costs more to publish a magazine that what you pay for a subscription) in the next few issues. The best thing to help CC INK along the road is to tell a potential advertiser that they should be in CC INK. Another thing you can do is identify companies and the person who makes advertising decisions and tell Curt or me. We will send them an adverttiser media kit right away. Rest assured,however, that we won't forget our prime objective in all this -- make a magazine that we all want to read. --Steve Msg#:11160 *PROJECTS* 12-08-88 16:32:09 From: JOSEPH D GRADECKI To: ALL Subj: HELP..AGAIN I appreciate all the response of my last letter. My problem doesn't involve HAL persay, I am simply using the cpu and eprom part of HAL for part of my circuit. As I stand now I have the 8031, eprom and 74ls373 wired exactly to the diagram with the 11.0592 mhz crystal. The bio31.hex is in eprom and when fired up nothing. Now, when i use my logic probe on pin 18 of the CPU, the circuit takes off I can test for logic on pin 11(txd) and it will be high or low depending on the time. When I had the 10 mhz crystal I had to touch pin 19. My question is this. I am using an APPLE computer power supply for my 5v and grd (since I am using the 8031) and since hardware is new to me do I need to provide some sort of capacicity between the leds into my circuit? I recall reading of that somewhere. I shooting for anything now because everything works great if I use my logic probe. And the capacitors with the crystal are 27 pf (5%). ANy help would be appreciated!! Thanks. Joseph D Gradecki Msg#:11182 *PROJECTS* 12-09-88 07:57:21 From: BOB PADDOCK To: JOSEPH D GRADECKI (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 11160 (HELP..AGAIN) Make sure that you have no floting inputs on any of your ICs. That will some times cause the type of thing you are seeing. Also is there a minimum load speck on your power supply? Some types of switching supplys will not regulate correctly if the are not loaded enough, you logic probe might be that additinal load that you need. And yes it is always a good idea to have bypass caps on the power supply, they will supply surge current for things like the EPROM being selected, and the also sunt a lot of noise to ground. Try changing one of the 27pf caps to a 15pf or a 30pf, or maybe just removeing it (I had a circuit once where the caps semed to cancle out each other when the were the same value, and the thing just refused to oscolate). Msg#:11164 *PROJECTS* 12-08-88 19:29:04 From: DAN GARDNER To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: Z8 X-ASSEMBLER STEVE- DO YOU KNOW OF AN INEXPENSIVE CROSS-ASSEMBLER FOR THE Z8? (PREF IBM HOST) I READ THE Z8 THREAD AND FOUND NO MENTION OF ONE. I BUILT A Z8 SOME TIME AGO BUT CHANGED THE DESIGN SOMEWHAT TO ACCOMODATE EITHER AN 8K STATIC RAM OR A 2764. I NOTE FROM READING MESSAGES THAT YOU DID SOMETHING SIMILAR FOR THE BCC11. IT'L BE WORTH THE 10 BUCKS TO ORDER THE MANUAL FROM MICROMINT TO COMPARE THE DIFFERENCES IN MY AND YOUR METHOD :^) BY THE WAY, I LIVE IN PHOENIX SO I CALLED MARK VOORHEES AND CHATTED FOR A WHILE. HE SEEMS LIKE A REAL NICE GUY. 69 DEG. & BEAUTIFUL IN PHX, DAN GARDNER Msg#:11170 *PROJECTS* 12-08-88 22:58:12 From: TOM ARNOLD To: DAN GARDNER (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 11164 (Z8 X-ASSEMBLER) Zilog supplied a Z8-SUPER8 x-assembler with the super8 development board. We were discussing posting it, but never got Zilog's approval. Try contacting your local Zilog sales office and pleading for it. If they can't get you a copy, ask if they would feel pirated if someone gave you one. I have been playing with creating a Z8 table for TASM, but I'm so far behind on other stuff you would do well not to wait for it. Msg#:11189 *PROJECTS* 12-09-88 08:54:47 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: DAN GARDNER (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 11164 (Z8 X-ASSEMBLER) Micromint sells a Z8 cross-assembler for the IBM PC for around $75. Order number is MR04. It was developed by Micro Resources. Msg#:11845 *PROJECTS* 12-22-88 17:39:09 From: DAN GARDNER To: TOM ARNOLD Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 11170 (Z8 X-ASSEMBLER) Thanks, guys for the suggestions. I contacted Zilog and was told the following: They do distribute the Z8/Super8 assembler **FREE OF CHARGE** on a non-support basis. What this means is: We'll send you a copy (they did ask me to send their disk back), you can call your local Zilog tech if you have any questions and IF he has time, and IF he knows the answer, and IF he's had a good day he'll try to answer it. Otherwise he can give you Micromints number and you can order their assembler. It sounded like a good deal to me so I had them send it to me (got it in about 4 days!) It seems to support macros & conditional assembly, although the docs are a little slim. Again, thanks! Dan Gardner Msg#:11169 *PROJECTS* 12-08-88 22:50:17 From: TOM ARNOLD To: MARK BALCH (Rcvd) Subj: BIT WIZ Somehow, Ken isn't the name; I'm drawing a blank even though I knew him many years ago. A BIT WIZ would be an assembly language programmer. Msg#:11209 *PROJECTS* 12-09-88 16:43:09 From: MARK BALCH To: TOM ARNOLD Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 11169 (BIT WIZ) Ok, thanks for the clarification. extensive< standard libraries (TTL, LINEAR, MEMORY, INTEL, MOTOROLA, etc), sizes A-E, printer OR plotter output, extremely easy editing/modification, etc, etc. (sorry if I sound like a commercial- I use the program myself, and LOVE it). Runs like Blazes on my AT, and one of the several utilities allows the user to go through a schematic and number EVERY part, change reference numbers (take R3 and make it R7, for example), check for duplication of ANYTHING (two parts on top of each other), Electrical Rules Checking, and here I am going off again. I better log off now, before I start typing in the manual for you..... Thanks. Msg#:11203 *PROJECTS* 12-09-88 11:44:08 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: DAVID K. MERRIMAN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 11200 (EPROM ERASER) We use Schema for all our schematics and many of the figures in INK (take a look at the masthead in any issue of INK). Since we've been using it for over two years now, it would be pretty painful to try to switch. It does everything you list anyway, so we've been pretty happy with it. Msg#:11681 *PROJECTS* 12-18-88 12:14:54 From: PELLERVO KASKINEN To: DAVID K. MERRIMAN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 11200 (EPROM ERASER) Have you considered using the SUN? Yes, even during the winter time the sun rays normally have enough UV that your chips would be erased in quite reasonable time, say an hour or two... Just as long as you do not try to do it inside through the filtered light that your window lets pass thru. You need to take the chips outside. Also, it is a good idea to remove very carefully any residue that a sticker over the chip window may have left behind. Otherwise, how's that for cheap advice? . -- PJK Msg#:11693 *PROJECTS* 12-18-88 16:45:14 From: BOB PADDOCK To: PELLERVO KASKINEN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 11681 (EPROM ERASER) Some one took are only working EPROM eraser on a feild trip once, so I left some 27 2732's outside where they would be exposed to the sun for a week (middle of July). The parts didn't change one bit (Pun?). They still had the same checksums that they started with. Maybe at the equater the Sun will erase EPROMs but not in North-West PA. Msg#:11734 *PROJECTS* 12-19-88 10:29:53 From: DAVID K. MERRIMAN To: PELLERVO KASKINEN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 11681 (EPROM ERASER) I seem to recall reading (perhaps in one of Steve's articles) that the erasure time for EPROMs exposed to the sun was something on the order of a couple of days; and that inside flourescent lighting would require weeks. Mayhap I'm wrong.... Anyone else out there care to comment? Steve? Msg#:11747 *PROJECTS* 12-19-88 19:08:56 From: JIM NELSON To: DAVID K. MERRIMAN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 11734 (EPROM ERASER) It takes weeks of strong sunlight and a couple years of fluorescent lamp exposure, at least according to most manufacturers. Msg#:11769 *PROJECTS* 12-20-88 09:46:57 From: DAVID K. MERRIMAN To: JIM NELSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 11747 (EPROM ERASER) Well, I wasn't TOO far off (cosmically speaking)........ Incidentally, I've gotten a couple of 254 nm UV tubes; rated at 330uW/cm^2 at 6 inches. One of the EPROM erasers I've seen claims 6800uW/cm^2 at >1< inch, so what I figure to do is just move my tubes closer, and then expose the EPROMs a bit longer (the ot her unit erases 24 chips in about an hour). All the appropriate interlocks, light traps, etc, of course. Thanks for the message- nice to have a better idea of just how "careful" I have to be. If it takes that long in sunlight, and even longer in indoor flourescent lighting, I wonder why programmed EPROMs have those cute little "curtains" over the windows; I'd think the chance of erasure (particularly inside a chassis) would be pretty low....... probably just a convenient way to put the programmers "secret numbers" on the chips, more than anything else. Msg#:11860 *PROJECTS* 12-23-88 07:22:06 From: DAVE MILLER To: DAVID K. MERRIMAN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 11734 (EPROM ERASER) We left some EPROMs next to some floresent (sp?) lights (they are on at least 12 hours a day) for over 6 months, with out any data loss. we had them next to the tubes, with nothing in the way to filter out the uv. Msg#:11915 *PROJECTS* 12-26-88 09:13:43 From: PELLERVO KASKINEN To: BOB PADDOCK (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 11693 (EPROM ERASER) Oh - what are you telling! 2732's a week in the sunshine and not erased! I must have come to entirely wrong conclusions from who knows what. But it may make sense after all, considering that the ozone layer (or what is left of it...) filters the shorter wavelengths while it lets some of the longer, tanning waves to pass. I never calculated the work function of the UVPROM erasing energy to the corresponding wave length and may now be in need of doing so. I do know that some ultraviolet sensitive resists used for PCB manufacturing do not expose in incandescent light, but do readily in sunshine. But that still does not prove that the UVPROMS would do the same. Sorry guys! . -- PJK Msg#:11916 *PROJECTS* 12-26-88 09:19:57 From: PELLERVO KASKINEN To: DAVID K. MERRIMAN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 11734 (EPROM ERASER) Sorry, I made an unwarranted claim! Bob Paddock straightened me out, I think. Must go back and check the thing rather than present these hearsay opinions... A fact is, the tanning light around 367 nanometers wave length has never been recommended for the erasing of UVPROMS. The light that the commercial erasers provide is the 254 nanometer type, the one that kills bacteria and burns your eyes etc. And due to the filtering effect of the atmosphere there is not enough of that kind of of radiation, probably. Back to the drawing board! . -- PJK Msg#:11225 *PROJECTS* 12-10-88 03:08:09 From: JACK A. JACKSON To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: SP1000 I am very much interested in adapting the speech recognition project presented in the November 1984 Byte on my computer.I am having difficulty finding the demo software mentioned in the article and was wondering if someone might upload it or direct me to where I may obtain it.Any help would be appreciated. Msg#:11341 *PROJECTS* 12-12-88 09:51:36 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: JACK A. JACKSON Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 11225 (SP1000) That article appeared long before the BBS was set up, and since the only software available is for the Apple, it is difficult to convert the files so they can be read on an IBM PC (and hence posted here). Having a great deal of experience with the software for that project, I would not recommend trying to convert it for a different computer (unless it also uses a 6502). It is written entirely in 6502 assembly language and would take someone working on it part time many weeks just to convert it to another processor. And when the converted program doesn't work, you're talking several more weeks of debugging. The SP1000 only provides a primitive front end for voice recognition; it won't do any of the dirty work. That is entirely up to the host computer, so the code is extensive. Msg#:11238 *PROJECTS* 12-10-88 14:41:09 From: JAMES GRUNDELL To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: SERIAL EPROM PROGRAMMER I have recently found the need for an EPROM programmer and decided to adapt a portion of the circuit in your article in Byte (Feb. 1985) to my Compupro-86 system as a circuit card. In reviewing the circuit diagram on page 107, I am somewhat confused as to the connection between pin 11 of IC-7 (invertor gate) and pin 2 of IC-9 (NOR gate). As the text included in the article does not specifically address these two gates, I assume that the R/(W*) line should be connected to these two points to drive (OE*) during a Read operation either thru the invertor gate for 2716, 2764 & 27128 devices, or thru the NOR gate for 2732 & 2732A devices. I would appreciate any comments on this. Thanks jgrundell PS - I just received my 1st issue of CC INK. Congratulations on a fine publication. I wish you every success and hope you don't go the way of Sol Libes' last two journals. Sol created two fine publications only to have them bought up and the original editorial content and the direction of the technical articles radically changed which resulted in the failure of the first one (Microsystems). And although the company that bought out the 2nd one (Micro||Systems Journal) probably has a better technical staff to keep it going, it much resembles a popular and successful sit-com spinning off hopeful clones only to end up as a single-season run. Msg#:11269 *PROJECTS* 12-11-88 12:44:04 From: STEVE CIARCIA To: JAMES GRUNDELL (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 11238 (SERIAL EPROM PROGRAMMER) To your first question, there was a schematic error in the original article. See if the corrections are included with the software files for that project (in the bbs files section) or drop me a note and I'll send you a corrected schematic. Regarding the comparison to Sol Libes stuff and CC INK I think we have quite a leg up on him. You should ask him of course, but I don't think he ever had the success rate we seemto be enjoying. We have a circulation of 25,000 at the 6th issue and still going strong. Also, I believe that the magazine was Sol's only business so it was publish or perish. That is not the case with CC INK. CC INK is just a product of Circuit Cellar Incorporated, among others. I won't lie to you, for every business venture there is a price that can be offered for its purchase but, when you don't need the money and you're doing it because you like it, no one can ever meet that price. We'll be around for quite a while. --Steve Msg#:11273 *PROJECTS* 12-11-88 12:57:26 From: JOSEPH D GRADECKI To: ALL Subj: CRYSTAL..CAP Can anyone explain to me what is happening in the following situation. Take the diagram for the crystal setup to an 8031. Eliminate the capacitor on the edge which connects to pin 18. Now instead of grounding the lead to the power supply hold the lead in your hand. I do this and the CPU takes off, (I am using the diagram in the current INK page 52), the led blinks. Now if I put the capacitor back, nothing will happen. This happens with either 27 or 30 pf capacitors. If anyone can explain this please do. Thank you. Msg#:11280 *PROJECTS* 12-11-88 13:41:53 From: STEVE CIARCIA To: JOSEPH D GRADECKI (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 11273 (CRYSTAL..CAP) Are you sure you aren't missing a ground connection (perhaps to the 8031) someplace? --Steve Msg#:11303 *PROJECTS* 12-11-88 19:43:52 From: JOSEPH D GRADECKI To: ALL Subj: WIRE WRAP I have another question. In my above situation, I check and rewired all of my ground connections in a different format than I had used originially. Originally I had done a circle of the ground connections pin 20 of the 8031 to pin 10 of the 74ls373..etc. This time I wired a single wire to each pin and tied them as a bundle to my power supply. When I had everything finished, I turned her on and it worked!. except that I noticed I had disconnection the crystal from pin 18. But it still worked. These was nothing connected to pin 18 of the 8031 and nothing connected to one side of the crystal and it worked???? Help. I then became curious and wired my ground back in the circle fashion leaving the crystal unconnected. And alas it woulded work. Apparently there is a convntion to wiring power to circuits. Can someone help me out on the wiring and maybe a little insight into why circuit worked with no connection to the crystal or pin 18. Thank you. joe Msg#:11407 *PROJECTS* 12-13-88 04:50:54 From: GARY LEAR To: JOSEPH D GRADECKI (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 11303 (WIRE WRAP) It sounds like you have a classic exemple of ground loops. As a general rule of thumb (true about 99.44% of the time) you should use a single point ground and a single point of power distribution for each supply voltage. In addition, the leads should be of minimum length. Many analog circuits, and some digital ones, require a ground plane for optimum operation by supplying a low impedance return path. The primary reasons for this are simple. Minimum length and direct paths provide the smallest IR drop for a given wire size. Ground noise and other problems are also reduced. I am unfamiliar with the specifics of the rest of your problem, but have you checked to determine if the processor is operating at the proper frequency? And if so, do you perphaps have a leakage path to ground (the crystal circuit will ordinarily present a high impedance) to account for it? Please let me know what you find out. Good luck! --Gary --P.S. The message is somewhat scrambled, I am having trouble with Telenet (PCPursuit) again. Sorry about that. Msg#:11420 *PROJECTS* 12-13-88 09:11:10 From: JEFF BACHIOCHI To: JOSEPH D GRADECKI (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 11303 (WIRE WRAP) Joseph, Remember each IC should have a decoupling capacitor as close as possible. Usually a 0.1 or 0.01 ufd will do. These are necessary, but not always shown on schematics! Decoupling caps help stabilized the power supply at each IC. Noise spikes are produced by ICs when changing states. Unless tamed by decoupling, they can affect the operation of all other ICs. Shortening the VCC and ground lines to the Power Supply is good practice but don't forget decoupling! jeff Msg#:11427 *PROJECTS* 12-13-88 12:29:52 From: JOSEPH D GRADECKI To: JEFF BACHIOCHI (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 11420 (WIRE WRAP) Thanks for the information. I will try it. I have gotten the circuit down to the point that with the crystal and caps connected, SImply touching pin 19 with send the processor a workin'. joe Msg#:11325 *PROJECTS* 12-12-88 08:24:27 From: MARK JAMES To: ANYONE Subj: SMARTSPOOLER QUESTIONS I am working on assembling the Smart Spooler kit, and I have a few questions. First, I can't determine which capacitors to use for C1,C2 - 10 pFd and C4,C5 - 1500 pFd. Mine have "10K" and "152" written on them. Which is which? Second, when building the front panel daughterboard, I assume I have to connect pins 7 and 14 on the 74LS14 to GND and +5V respectively. Is that true? Third, I assume the pins are numbered counterclockwise starting with the notch in the chip. Is that correct? Forth, which leg of the LEDs go to +5V on the daughterboard. Is there anything else not shown in the schematic for the daughterboard that I should know about? If you haven't guessed by now, I'm a novice. The Smart Spooler may have been a bad choice for a first kit, but it was something interesting because I have a use for it. Building the main board has been fairly easy (except for the capacitor mix-up). The daughterboard is the biggest problem. For me, it would have been nice to have that board included in the kit, rather than building it myself (I haven't started yet). I know including it would make the kit cost more, and the size might be a problem depending on the enclosure used. Just a comment. Finally a couple more questions. If I put the 74LS14 on the same side of the daughterboard as the buttons and LEDs, it will be as high as the buttons (higher if I socket it) and interfere with mounting against the end panel. I assume I put the LEDs and buttons on the front side, and everything else on the back. Good idea? Which is the front and back? The boards I've looked at have traces on one side and I assume that is the back. How do you make the front panel look nice. Do you just cut holes for the buttons and LEDs, or do you cut a bigger hole and have some kind of cosmetic panel? How do you make sure the board doesn't short out against the case? Where can I get a power supply. I want something compact that will fit into an enclosure with the Smart Spooler. I haven't been able to find one that has the 3 required voltages (+5V @500mA, +12V @30mA, -12V @30mA), except for a used one that was bigger than a PC. I think it came out of a mainframe and would probably heat my whole house. A couple places told me I could easily modify one they had by adding a couple of circuits, but that's over my head and it's another board to mount. I don't have any problems using mail-order, if I know what I want. Jameco had one I thought might work in their summer flyer #137 (part # PS12661), but I'm not sure. It has +5V @7A, +12V @.5A, -12V @.5A, and +12V @2A. Is it too big? Can I leave the extra +12V output disconnected without burning anything up? Thanks in advance for your help. MGJ. P.S. I scanned this area for anything with "Spooler" in it which I will read off-line. That may answer some of my questions. I prepared the above text offline before logging on, so it may contain questions already answered. Thanks again. Msg#:11349 *PROJECTS* 12-12-88 10:59:45 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: MARK JAMES (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 11325 (SMARTSPOOLER QUESTIONS) The 10pF caps are labeled 10K and the 1500pF are labeled 152. The 152 means 15 followed by two 0s (1500), like resistors. The 74LS14 does have +5V connected to pin 14 and ground connected to pin 7. Your assumption about how the pins are numbered is correct. As to which leg of the LED is which, most LEDs have a flat spot on their base near one of the legs signifying the cathode side (in the schematic, the side with the bar). That is the side that goes to the connector. The other side goes to the current-limiting resistor. Neither side should go directly to +5V. As far as the mechanical factors go, they really depend on the switches and the box that you use. I would use switches that mount on the board and stick up a fair amount. That way, the chips and resistors could be mounted on the same side (without a socket) and clearance wouldn't be a problem. Then I'd make single cutouts for each switch and LED in the side of the box. You can get a power supply from CCI for around $20 that provides +5V at 900 mA, +12V at 300 mA, and -5V at 100 mA. It is a wall-mounted transformer, so it doesn't need to go in your box. Msg#:11404 *PROJECTS* 12-13-88 02:34:52 From: MARK JAMES To: KEN DAVIDSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 11349 (SMARTSPOOLER QUESTIONS) Thanks for the answers to the SmartSpooler Questions. I noticed in the earlier messages, some comments about EPROM bugs. Those messages didn't show up in my scan for "Spooler". I'll try EPROM next. If that doesn't work, I'll ask for more help. Thanks. MGJ Msg#:11417 *PROJECTS* 12-13-88 08:46:30 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: MARK JAMES Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 11404 (SMARTSPOOLER QUESTIONS) Version 1.0 of the spooler EPROM had a bug that made it look like the board was receiving an invalid NMI signal. Version 1.1 of the EPROM is currently shipping and is available in the file section here. Msg#:11354 *PROJECTS* 12-12-88 11:19:57 From: MARK M. LAMBERT To: ALL Subj: IMAGEWISE Hello, I am Mark M. Lambert with GDT, Inc., here in Deltona Florida. I just finished uploading our new image processing software that captures, processes, displaysprints, and saves ImageWise files. This module is provided as "ShareWare" and all are invited to copy it and play. Please do not remove our copyright notice and try to sell it as your own. We have additional programs both of general interest and for specific business applications and we would like to hear from you. We can be reached at (904) 789-0458 (Voice) or (904) 789-9801 (FAX / MODEM). Msg#:11358 *PROJECTS* 12-12-88 12:50:57 From: MIKE DINGELDEY To: ALL Subj: HELP??!! (OR COMMENTS) Hi all. I have a little problem that I was wondering if someone could answer, or give suggestions to. I just assembled the logic tester kit, and am having a couple of problems with it. It seems that ONLY 24 pin packages check out as ok, while any other size package is bad, INCLUDING those i know operate correctly. What I was wondering is could this problem be realted to a bad transistor(s), or a bad latch? (the one that drives the transistors). Has anyone else had a problem like this, and could they give me any help??? (By the way, the transistors seem to check out ok..). Thanks. Msg#:11423 *PROJECTS* 12-13-88 09:24:23 From: JEFF BACHIOCHI To: MIKE DINGELDEY (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 11358 (HELP??!! (OR COMMENTS)) Mike, Since you say every thing works fine at 24 pins, this would indicate all the transistors are OK. Are you lower justifing the devices? (all devices are inserted in the socket by moving them down to the end of the socket opposite pin1. For a 14 pin device, ZIF socket pins 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 20, 21, 22, 23 & 24 are empty. The 14 pin IC's pin 1 is in pin 6 of the ZIF socket.) jeff Msg#:11682 *PROJECTS* 12-18-88 14:35:34 From: MIKE DINGELDEY To: JEFF BACHIOCHI (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 11423 (HELP??!! (OR COMMENTS)) To answer the question, yes, I am lower-justifying the chips. I thought that it was acting "strangely", because chips that I just purchased were the ones I tested, as well as those from other equipment. Could the problems that I am encountering be "borderline" chips?? Would be interesting to find out.... I'll play with it some more to see if there is anything that I did incorrectly. Thanks for the info..... Msg#:11366 *PROJECTS* 12-12-88 14:28:49 From: JAMES GRUNDELL To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: COMMENT Thanks for the comment and glad to hear things are going well for you all the way around. On another note . . . As I am putting this EPROM Programmer together on the S-100 bus, I need a DC-DC convertor. I am thinking of using th LM3524 Regulating PWM chip to step up the 16V line to feed into the LM317 for the VPP voltage. Going thru the calculations, I find that the maximum current output I can get ou of the LM3524 is about 40mA. I don't think this is enough to drive the LM317. What do you think? Lastly . . . I logged on the other day for the 1st time and as I usaully do when I'm into something new with a time limit (60 min.), I capture my screen to a disk file. After logging off and then loading that file into my editor (file length was 60K), the only thing my editor would show me was 1 line with the character "i". After working on this problem for awhile I realzed that this board supports limited screen formating on a Wyse-50 ,which is my terminal type. To clear the screen and home the cursor, a Ctrl-Z is issued. The Ctrl-Z is also used as an EOF (End Of File) marker in the CPM file system. A little "hack" had this problem cleared up in a few minutes, but the "Board" might try using an ESC ; to clear and home. This escape code is listed in the Wyse-50 programers manual as perform the same function as Ctrl-Z. I have'nt tried it, but I'm sure it will work, and then those of us with CPM machines and text editors and Wyse-50 terminals can sleep again a night. Actually, a combination of the later 3 products seems pretty rare and maybe not worth the effort to bother with . . . Harde . . . Anyway, again, thanks for the comment. Msg#:11426 *PROJECTS* 12-13-88 11:58:01 From: STEVE CIARCIA To: JAMES GRUNDELL (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 11366 (COMMENT) You might want to consider the 78S40 regulator. I used it last in OCt '86. It can easily put out a 1/4 Amp. I am presently working on a big DC to DC converter project for a mid-summer CC INK. --Steve Msg#:11440 *PROJECTS* 12-13-88 15:35:44 From: JOSEPH D GRADECKI To: ALL Subj: AT.THIS.TIME Gentlemen, I appreciate all the help I have been receiving the last few days. But I must be missing something in the circuit. Is there anything not put in the schematic that needs to be there? Up to this point I have constructed the circuit on page 52 on the current INK. I have added the simple reset circuit, bypass capacitors, and have power to the circuit connected from pin to pin instead of a tree where all pins tie to the power lead. Still to no avail. Yet if I use my body as a capacitor and touch pin 19 or the point of connection between the crystal and the capacitor, away she goes. If anyone has any more suggestions i'd appreaciate it. This is but a building block in a larger system and need it to work. Thanks. joe Msg#:11479 *PROJECTS* 12-14-88 12:20:39 From: BOB PADDOCK To: JOSEPH D GRADECKI (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 11440 (AT.THIS.TIME) Try tieing all of the floating inputs to +5. Pins 1-8,10,12. Maybe 25-27 it depends on what the software is doing with them. If you are copying the circuit from page 52 verbatim make sure that you do have +5 and GND on all of the parts, because it is not shown on any of them. Just to be complete I believe the 27 pF caps are drawin backwards, but sence they are nonpolrized caps it dosen't realy matter(?). [Some times caps are constructed so that the grounded side forms a 'sheild', but this usualy only show up with small varaible trimer caps.] Msg#:11516 *PROJECTS* 12-15-88 04:49:03 From: GARY LEAR To: JOSEPH D GRADECKI (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 11440 (AT.THIS.TIME) Do not hard-wire the Port pins to a supply voltage! Irrespective of what the software does with these pins, during reset (not after the processor is out of reset, but during the time the signal is actually asserted) all of the port pins are in an output state. This is partially due to Intel's somewhat unusual quasi-bidirectional structure. This fact is not very well documented, but was instead won in a very expensive manner (destroying elaborate motor drivers when someone thought to save parts by letting software handle everything and ignoring safegards). Connecting unused inputs is good practice and is often mandatory (especially in CMOS circuits), but it can be disastrous in situations similiar to this one. --Gary Msg#:11457 *PROJECTS* 12-13-88 21:25:49 From: GREGORY ZEPKA To: KEN DAVIDSON (Rcvd) Subj: INDEX Ken, Is there a Index of Circut Cellar articles? I am interested in some of the older ones, I would be able to borrow a Magazine or order a Book for the ones I wanted. Thank you, Greg Msg#:11468 *PROJECTS* 12-14-88 08:49:45 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: GREGORY ZEPKA (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 11457 (INDEX) There isn't a formal index per se, but in the ircuit Cellar INK section (get there from the main menu), the item that describes how to get back issues lists the titles of the articles in each issue. That should be enough to give you an idea of what is in each one. Msg#:11491 *PROJECTS* 12-14-88 20:19:47 From: GREGORY ZEPKA To: KEN DAVIDSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 11468 (INDEX) Thank you Msg#:11459 *PROJECTS* 12-13-88 22:21:16 From: JAMES O'SULLIVAN To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: MANDELBROT MACHINE Hi Steve! I found your Mandelbrot Machine articles very interesting. I too have cooked up a dedicated Mandelbrot computer, though I took a different approach. I designed my own floating point processor from scratch, optimized for computing Mandelbrot graphs. The processor is fairly simple. It consists of a 16 x 40 bit register set, a microcoded control unit, and the ALU. The system buses are 40 bits, as is the floating point size. The mantissa part of the ALU consists of 4 F384 serial-parallel multipliers, 8 F381 ALUs, and 8 shift registers, The exponent part consists of two 8 bit binary counters and 2 F181 ALUs. The size of a control word is 40 bits. Only instructions needed for computing the Mandelbrot set were included in the instruction set. There is floating point add, subtract, multiply, and compare, integer increment and compare, an unconditional jump and two unconditional jumps, and a few other instructions, 15 in all. Every chip except the PROMs are FAST-type chips. Like your system, this one depends on a host computer for storage and display of the image. In particular, it is designed for a 16 bit PC card. The driver program will configure the processor initially, and then transfer the data to the hard drive when it's underway. The output of this processor (the COUNT values) is locked into 8 bit quantities, so the results of two computations may be read at once by the PC. I have two 1K x 8 FIFOs between the processor and the PC to hold the data blocks. This allows the system to do fast DMA transfers, instead of the slower byte-by-byte method. I am still working on the wire-wrap version of this thing! There are about 140 ICs, ranging from 14 to 24 pins, and the underside looks like a small forest. I have tested each block of the system as it is wrapped. So far, I have tested the microcontrol unit up to 8 MHz, and it works fine. With a hardwired control unit, the system would do 35 MHz easily, I hope, but the best laid schemes.... My goal is to have a printed circuit board made up, preferably using surface mount technology, if it is affordable. Could you suggest a good integrated CAD package that would allow me to draw up schematics and lay out a multilayered PCB? It would have to support SMT and be under $1000. I have looked at Hiwire Plus, and it looks good. I would appreciate an y suggestions you have in this area. Oh. I noticed you used fixed-point in your machine. I hadn't thought of that. Wouldn't that limit the range that one can zoom down, since the point would go far to the right? That format is much easier to implement though. Thanks! Jim O'Sullivan Msg#:11578 *PROJECTS* 12-16-88 11:31:46 From: STEVE CIARCIA To: JAMES O'SULLIVAN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 11459 (MANDELBROT MACHINE) Sounds like a lot of work. Let us know when you finish it. Regarding zoom resolution and fixed point, just add more digits. Thats the benefit. --Steve Msg#:11503 *PROJECTS* 12-14-88 22:58:38 From: RUSS LINDGREN To: LARRY SIMS Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 8638 (DIGITAL SCOPE) I have had a couple of questions on the techniques of building the analog section of the 10 Mhz digitizing board, so I would like to go over some of the methods for success. I frequently use the PR1 prototype boardqu from JDR Microdevices (1-800-538-5000) because the have an integral ground / 5V grid on the board. This helps to keep the noise to a minimum. In wiring the analog circuit, the most critical part is the input amplifier (CA3450). Try to keep the wire length to a minimum, and to tie the decoupling capacitors directily to the power supply pins. Wire wrapping is ok as long as they stay close to the op amp. If a 2 Mhz bandwidth is acceptable, you can substitute the CA3450 with an LF356 op amp. Then make the following pin substitutions: CA3450 LF356 Function ______ _____ ________ 3 2 - input 14 3 + input 6 6 output 7,8 7 positive supply 4,5,12,13 4 negative supply Please note this error in the published schematics: Page 30, U3 has the power supplies incorrectly listed. Pin 4 should go to the -5V supply through R8. Pin 8 is unused. Pin 7 should go to the +5V supply through R7. I have also heard that there is some difficulty in obtaining a few parts, so I'll list the sources I use. Shottkey Diodes, D3 & D4, CA3450, CA3318, PAL20L10, PAL20X8: Hamilton Avnet 603-881-7435 Arrow 603-668-6968 Once you have purchased the PAL's, you can have them programmed by Programmable Devices, at 617-935-9530. I hope this information proves useful to you. 's, Msg#:11504 *PROJECTS* 12-14-88 22:59:35 From: RUSS LINDGREN To: DOUG BUHRMAN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 9009 (10 MHZ DIGITIZING BOARD) I have had a couple of questions on the techniques of building the analog section of the 10 Mhz digitizing board, so I would like to go over some of the methods for success. I frequently use the PR1 prototype boardqu from JDR Microdevices (1-800-538-5000) because the have an integral ground / 5V grid on the board. This helps to keep the noise to a minimum. In wiring the analog circuit, the most critical part is the input amplifier (CA3450). Try to keep the wire length to a minimum, and to tie the decoupling capacitors directily to the power supply pins. Wire wrapping is ok as long as they stay close to the op amp. If a 2 Mhz bandwidth is acceptable, you can substitute the CA3450 with an LF356 op amp. Then make the following pin substitutions: CA3450 LF356 Function ______ _____ ________ 3 2 - input 14 3 + input 6 6 output 7,8 7 positive supply 4,5,12,13 4 negative supply Please note this error in the published schematics: Page 30, U3 has the power supplies incorrectly listed. Pin 4 should go to the -5V supply through R8. Pin 8 is unused. Pin 7 should go to the +5V supply through R7. I have also heard that there is some difficulty in obtaining a few parts, so I'll list the sources I use. Shottkey Diodes, D3 & D4, CA3450, CA3318, PAL20L10, PAL20X8: Hamilton Avnet 603-881-7435 Arrow 603-668-6968 Once you have purchased the PAL's, you can have them programmed by Programmable Devices, at 617-935-9530. I hope this information proves useful to you. 's, Msg#:11640 *PROJECTS* 12-17-88 13:12:31 From: DOUG BUHRMAN To: RUSS LINDGREN Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 11504 (10 MHZ DIGITIZING BOARD) Thanks Russ. This looked like a project that would be fun to build and be very useful for working on other projects. Some of the commercial boards I have seen are either too expensive or just don't have much to them. Doug Msg#:11512 *PROJECTS* 12-15-88 03:05:54 From: JAMES GRUNDELL To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: 78S40 SWITCHING REGULATOR Yes, I have looked at the circuit you used in the "Intelligent Programmer". I can readily obtain the chip locally but the Miller 5506 is somewhat more difficult to track down. Toroid cores are readily available . . . I suppose I could "roll my own". Do you know if the equation L=r**2 * N**2 / 9r + 10l where L => Inductance in uH, r=radius of coil in inches, N=number of turns, and l=length of coil in inches, holds true for toroids, or is there a variation due to the shape of the core? In any event, something will turn up . . . jgrundell Msg#:11568 *PROJECTS* 12-16-88 09:21:31 From: STEVE CIARCIA To: JAMES GRUNDELL (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 11512 (78S40 SWITCHING REGULATOR) CCI sells that 150 uH choke (rated for 4 amps) for $7 postpaid if you send a check or money order ($15 minimum order if you call). I will be using this same choke (actually 4 of them) in my upcoming design. Regarding toroids, I don't remember the equations off the top of my head. I'm one of those engineers who always argued with his professors about the absurdity of memorizing formulas when books did it so much better :-) --Steve Msg#:11529 *PROJECTS* 12-15-88 13:08:29 From: RICK OBER To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: OPTREX LCD DISPLAYS Who could I leave a message for that might have psuedo-code for the OPTREX displays? I'm looking for routine ideas for handling the timing for the characters to the display. Thanks. Msg#:11785 *PROJECTS* 12-21-88 01:19:29 From: MARC DIAZ To: RICK OBER (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 11529 (OPTREX LCD DISPLAYS) Rick I have written code for the Optrex LCD modes, Which model are you using ? I actually have extra I/O capability since I am using the 80535 and a 8256 to boot ! My code is written for the above configuration, however you can easily rewrite it for yo . If you would like , give me your address and I will send you a copy of the code By the w, the Optrex is the same as the Sieko,StalyNDlly and who knows what other LCDodul. Msg#:11958 *PROJECTS* 12-27-88 11:19:24 From: RICK OBER To: MARC DIAZ (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 11785 (OPTREX LCD DISPLAYS) I am using the 4x20 DMC20434 unit in a small [ortable terminal. I would appreciate your sending the code you might have to give me some ideas on the "screen handling" techniques common to most terminals and the hardware interface timing. For the latter, I an interfacing directly to a microcontroller's output ports for data and control. My address is: 12427 Lake LaDare, Baton Rouge, LA. 70816. Thanks for the help, Rick. Msg#:11571 *PROJECTS* 12-16-88 09:48:02 From: DAVID K. MERRIMAN To: ALL/ANY Subj: SERIAL EPROM PROGRAMMER Would like to know if the Experimenters kit for the "good" Serial EPROM programmer is still available- if so, how much is it? Thanks. Msg#:11594 *PROJECTS* 12-16-88 14:42:40 From: STEVE CIARCIA To: DAVID K. MERRIMAN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 11571 (SERIAL EPROM PROGRAMMER) The CCSEP kits are still available. An experimenters kit is $89 and a full kit is $199. Case and power supply is also available. --Steve Msg#:11582 *PROJECTS* 12-16-88 12:20:09 From: MARK LAMBERT To: SYSOP (Rcvd) Subj: VIDEO.ARC FOR IMAGEWISE I just sent up our latest revision of our software. It has been improved in several aspects, not in the least of which is that it now displays to the CRT about 20 times faster than the previous version. It also now supports TIF (Tagged Image File) format loads and saves so the images can be easily ported to paint programs and to desktop publishing programs. Please erase the previouse upload VIDEO.ARC and replace it with this. We have high quality (Ventura w/laser) manuals available at a nominal fee. Merry Christmas Yours, Mark M. Lambert Systems Analyst Generic Data Technologies, Inc. POB 5015 - Deltona, Florida 32728 (904) 789-0458 (voice) / (904) 789-9801 (FAX) Msg#:11683 *PROJECTS* 12-18-88 14:40:50 From: MICHAEL CLARKE To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: BASIC180 MASKED INT, ASCI ERR Hi Steve, Thanks, for the information, inspiration and fun you've given me through your Byte articles. Circuit Cellar INK is excellent! I can't wait for the next issue. I'm a systems support engineer for DEC by day (sometimes night) and a consultant, hacker and inventor by night. Among various continuing projects (home control, robotics, intventions & jobs) is a job for a client who needs a computer with a bus, very much like your BCC180. I started tests with it and found an error in the 64180 hardware manual and some limitations of BASIC-180 that I would like to share. Any comment would be greatly appreciated. By the way, I'm using a 20Mhz 386 S100 computer running Concurrent DOS 386 as my primary system. I built the IMSAI cabinet and front panel from a kit while in high school! Concurrent DOS 386 is killer! I hope to port UNIT to my never die S100. Also, I will try to call this BBS regularity and contribute to the discussions. I need to use 31.250 KBaud for a MIDI interface. The 64180 ASCIs have divide ratios such that an external clock input (CKA_0, CKA_1) must be used for either the console or the MIDI ASCI. The 64180 harware manual (Jan 88) specs the ASCI external clock divide ratios at 16 and 64 (page 88). Wrong! Through experiments I found the ratios are 160 and 480. Also, Hitachi is very conservitive in the spec for the maximum ASCI external clock rate (CKA <= PHI/40; page 90). I tried it within spec and up to 5 MHz (PHI @ 9.216MHz) with no problems. My local Hitachi regional office (Irvine, CA) has not confirmed my findings but sent me 10 MHz samples for my troubles! I can't use BASIC-180 for 31.250 KBaud and any real-time application written with BASIC-180 must use NMI or be prone to data overrun and/or data late errors. This is because BASIC-180 masks interrupts during some function and/or statment calls to prevent task switching during these calls. I'm using the ROM version and don't know how the disk version is written. Maybe it does't mask interrupts. Any comments and/or suggestions are appreciated. Mike Msg#:11726 *PROJECTS* 12-19-88 09:22:40 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: MICHAEL CLARKE (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 11683 (BASIC180 MASKED INT, ASCI ERR) Be sure to turn off error checking if you expect real real-time operation from BASIC-180. The error checking code causes interrupts to be missed. Be *very* careful when using NMI with BASIC-180. Interrupts aren't disabled just for giggles, they are usually disabled for a reason. If your ISR is written entirely in assembly language, that won't cause a problem, but be careful when attaching a BASIC routine to NMI. I'd recommend using an assembly language routine to service serial port interrupts anyway. Most serial operations are just transferring characters to and from buffers. Such a routine is simple to write in assembly language and you don't have all the overhead of context switching. Msg#:11774 *PROJECTS* 12-20-88 16:32:22 From: MICHAEL CLARKE To: KEN DAVIDSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 11726 (BASIC180 MASKED INT, ASCI ERR) Hi Ken, I'll explain my problem more fully. I'm getting OVERRUN errors from an ASCI when its run at 31.250 KBaud. At this rate its possible to receive an interrupt every 344 uS (1S,8D,NP,2S - 11 bits), although this rate is almost never substained for more than few frames or serial data units because the transmitions are from MIDI devices. For example: A Roland D10 synthesizer sends timming messages (one byte) every 17 mS whether or not someone is playing, adding two or three byte messages per timing message when someone is playing and up to maybe 1024 bytes during a system exclusive message. With the 64180 running at 9.216 MHz (I also tried it at 10 MHz) many hundreds if not thousands of instructions can execute between the ASCI interrupts. My first test program used the method described in the BASIC-180 users manual (appendix F) to patch a task entry address into the interrupt vector table. The interrupt task had very few lines of BASIC. It read the RDR, did not store the byte, checked for an error bit, if so set a flag variable, clear the error bits and exit. It never ran. The system would hang on the first interrupt, with and without NOERR set, with and without INTOFF and other routine variations. No problem, I'll write the ISR in assembly. I've written ISRs in assembly and C before. But how do I get the routine loaded with the compiled BASIC program? Easy, after the variable declarations at the start of the source code I put a GOTO X which is the compiled code start point. Then write the ISR using the CODE statment and carefully chosen BASIC statments. I used the usual pushes and pops at the start and end. It read RDR and STAT registers, compaired for error bits, set a variable error flag in memory and cleared the error bits if nessary, then exited. If this worked I was going to add code to check for pertinent bytes and stuff them into a ring buffer. The X in GOTO X is the first line after the ISR. After NOERR DISKCOMPILING (or more accuately ROMcompiling) and patching the start address (found through scaning the compiled image) into the interrupt vector table the program runs fine. Execpt, every little while during the idle period (no one playing - 17 mS interrupts) it gets a OVERRUN error. Only one task is running (the lead task) and all its doing is checking for the error flag, waiting or printing a small message to the console indicating that an error occured. Also, during performence it gets lots of OVERRUN errors. I ignored the errors and added the ring buffer code, other tasks that react to the MIDI messages and a LCD display task (connected to one parallel port); all to check other aspects of the application (all this other stuff runs fine). Now why is the ASCI getting OVERRUN errors? OVERRUN errors are caused when the ASCIs read data register (RDR) is full and another byte is ready to be loaded into it from the receive shift register. The ISR must read the RDR before this happens. Three things can cause the ISR not to respond fast enought. The ISR takes to long in processing the last interrupt. This can't be the case since my ISR is relatively very short. The ISR is prempted by a higher priority ISR. This is part of the problem, the ASCIs are last in the Hitachi fixed priority scheme (11,12) and timer 0 (used for ticks) is sixth. The timer interrupts every 16.7 mS, the routine is relatively short and does not disable interrupts (I manually decompiled the code). If I were to use an external UART chip hooked to one of the higher priority interrupts lines (INT0, INT1,INT2) then if it were not for the third possiblilty my problem with OVERRUN errors would be solved. But alas, the third possiblilty is if interrupts are disabled by BASIC-180 during statments and/or functions, presumably to prevent task switching during these statments and/or functions. BASIC-180 disables interrupts at (at least) 19 different places. I manually decompiled a NOERR DISKCOMPILED ROM to find these. Msg#:11775 *PROJECTS* 12-20-88 16:46:56 From: MICHAEL CLARKE To: KEN DAVIDSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 11726 (BASIC180 MASKED INT, ASCI ERR) Sorry about the double reply, but I did not realize that messages can only be so big and though the transfer was trashing. I'm playing with UNIX these days and was using KERMIT. The last paragraph is as follows: The routines that disabled interrupts look short and may not interfere wiht ISRs hooked to INT0, INT1 and INT2 but this is why I stated that real-time applications may be prone to data overrun and/or data late errors if they don't use the NMI line. I'm going to do some tests wiht NMIs and BASIC-180. One interresting option I'll try is using the DMAC to transfer ASCI data to a buffer and with the TEND line tied to NMI (through an external enable gate) I can releave the CPU from some ASCI overhead and not be late with the ISR. This should be fun to make it work! What do you think! Mike Msg#:11797 *PROJECTS* 12-21-88 08:27:41 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: MICHAEL CLARKE (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 11775 (BASIC180 MASKED INT, ASCI ERR) You're making this too complicated. First, the problem you're having attaching a BASIC task to an interrupt source is rooted in how Softaid handles such ISRs. For some reason, they reenable interrupts *before* allowing the BASIC routine to run. If you rely on the task to do something to clear the interrupt, it won't get far enough into the code to clear the interrupt before interrupts are reenabled. You immediately get another interrupt and the loop starts. The reason the sample program in the appendix works is because I was using a 60-Hz source with a 50% duty cycle. When the source went away, I was able to complete the processing of the interrupt. We plan to fix the problem in the next go around, but the solution for now is to insert a short machine language routine that clears the interrupt before vectoring to the BASIC ISR. Since your routine should be done entirely in assembly language anyway, I won't go into detail about BASIC ISRs. Even though there may be several hundred microseconds between incoming characters, there is still a lot of overhead in the context switcher. A BASIC ISR isn't executed immediately on receipt of an interrupt. A lot of processing goes on before it can be run. If you write your routine entirely in assembly language, there is free space between 0040H and 00E0H. Make a copy of the BASIC EPROM and place your code somewhere in that space as you make the copy. Since that part of the EPROM is copied to the final EPROM as part of the runtime package, your machine language will follow on all DISKCOMPILEs and is also available during RAM-based compiles and executions. Suppose you put your code at 0040H. Simply set the vector in the table that starts at 00E0H to point to 0040H. The act of reading the character will clear the interrupt and you can store the character in a buffer in RAM for later use by BASIC. As far as interrupt priorities, they only apply when there are two or more simultaneous interrupts, which is highly unlikely in any system. Priority makes no difference if you are, say, servicing the ASCI0 interrupt and a timer interrupt comes in. If you have interrupts disabled, that timer interrupt won't be able to get control until after you reenable interrupts. Msg#:11818 *PROJECTS* 12-21-88 23:47:22 From: MICHAEL CLARKE To: KEN DAVIDSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 11797 (BASIC180 MASKED INT, ASCI ERR) Hi Ken, I am not having a problem attaching a BASIC task to an interrupt source. I abandoned that method after a few tries. I even found the problem you discribe about BASIC-180 enabling interrupts before a task starts by decompiling the code. I know why BASIC-180 reenables interrupts before a task starts. MOST, IF NOT ALL, CONTEXT SWITCHING CODE, SOME FUNCTION AND SOME BASIC STATMENTS DISABLE INTERRUPTS TO PROTECT AGAINST A TIMER INTERRUPT! This is my problem! Your sugestion for loading ISR code (compiled assembly) into ROM at 40h is OK for simple ISRs. An ISR that uses a ring buffer has pointers and flags that need addreses from the compiled BASIC so that a BASIC task can empty the buffer. My method is accounts for this, is very easy to patch (only the interrupt vector needs patching in the BASIC ROM) and the ISR is included in DISKCOMPILES and is available during RAM based compile/runs. It is not a task and can be written in machine code if you like. You are wrong about priorities and interrupts. If my ASCI ISR is running and PRT0 (timer 0) interrupts, my ISR is suspended and the timer ISR runs to completion before my ISR is continued. The 64180 has a priority scheme and the ASCIs are lowest in priority. ISRs must disable interrups if they can't be interrupted during processing. Only INT0 mode 1 automatically disables interrupts. ANY REAL-TIME APPLICATION WRITTEN WITH BASIC-180 IS PRONE TO DATA OVERRUN AND/OR DATA LATE ERRORS IF THE NMI LINE IS NOT USED, BECAUSE BASIC-180 DISABLES INTERRUPTS DURING CONTEXT SWTICHING, SOME FUNCTION CALLS AND SOME STATMENTS. This is the problem. One solution is to replace the DI (disable interrupts) instructions with RST (restart) instructions that vector to a routine to stop the timer during the function calls and restart it after completion. I will try the DMAC to NMI first thou. Am I right or wrong? Any comments and/or suggestions are appreciated. Mike Msg#:11832 *PROJECTS* 12-22-88 10:18:08 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: MICHAEL CLARKE (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 11818 (BASIC180 MASKED INT, ASCI ERR) Well, you don't have to shout. :-) You chose the wrong guy to pick a fight with when it comes to how the HD64180 works. I've been working with the chip for over three years on an almost daily basis. Your assertion that interrupts are only disabled upon entry to an INT0 ISR is just plain wrong. To test it out, I wrote a quick program in assembly language that sets up ASCI1 to interrupt whenever a character is received. The ISR gets the character and places it on the screen before returning to the main program, which is just looping on itself. The first time I wrote it, I placed an EI instruction in the ISR just before the RET, and didn't use any DI instructions in the ISR. The program worked just fine, displaying each character as I typed it. I then modified the program by removing the EI instruction from the ISR. Doing so left no EI or DI instructions anywhere. If interrupts are left enabled when the ASCI1 interrupt comes in, then the program should continue to work just fine. When I ran it, however, a single character was echoed to the screen, then the system froze, telling me that since I didn't explicitly reenable interrupts when my ISR finished, they were left disabled. And since I never explicitly disabled them, it must have been on receipt of the interrupt. The interrupt priority scheme only applies when there are two or more pending interrupts to be serviced. It has no affect on ISRs already running. As for your use of BASIC-180, no language or system can do everything for everybody in every application. Most high-level languages have trouble keeping up with the data rates you're talking about even when they don't have to worry about context switching. BASIC-180 works fine in most real-time applications where you want to do something like data collection or device control at the same time that you're updating your screen. In your case, it appears that the language simply runs out of steam. If high-speed buffering and zero interrupt latency time are the most important factors to you, you should be writing the application in assembly language to begin with. For those who place a higher priority on ease of programming and faster development time, then BASIC-180 is perfect. Msg#:11853 *PROJECTS* 12-22-88 21:07:13 From: MICHAEL CLARKE To: KEN DAVIDSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 11832 (BASIC180 MASKED INT, ASCI ERR) Hi Ken, Your right, thanks for the clarification on the interrupt nesting issue. I was't realy sure; the 64180 data book was not too clear. Sorry about the shouting, I like multitasking BASIC-180 and the BCC180 and plan to use them for other projects. Its just that I thought my problem might be helpfull to others using BASIC-180. I will try one more method (ASCI to DMAC to NMI) to receive MIDI messages and send a you a note on how that works out, before I startup the C compiler. I appreciate your attentiveness and quick responses to my messages. I hope to have more discussions in the future with you on other projects. I'm going skiing for a week! Thanks again for your help. MERRY CHRISMASS - HAPPY NEW YEAR Mike Msg#:11684 *PROJECTS* 12-18-88 15:15:51 From: CARL HUFF To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: AUDIO FREQUENCY REAL TIME FFT Steve congrats on a great new magazine. I'd like to prod somebody into building a Real Time audio freq FFT card for the PC AT bus. Perhaps something using the TI TMS320 chip set with a fast audio freq A/D built ontothe card would be slick. I have been toying with the idea of building such a gizmo myself. Again I love your magazine and have just ordered back issues. thanks. Msg#:11694 *PROJECTS* 12-18-88 16:47:45 From: BOB PADDOCK To: CARL HUFF Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 11684 (AUDIO FREQUENCY REAL TIME FFT) Have you seen "Implementation of Fast Fourier Trasform Algorithms with the TMS32020" by Pano Papamichalis and John So in "Digital Signal Processing Applications with the TMS320 Family: Theory, Algorithms, and Implementations" from Texas Instruments? Maybe this is what you are looking for? Msg#:11696 *PROJECTS* 12-18-88 16:57:46 From: STEVE SAMPSON To: BOB PADDOCK (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 11694 (AUDIO FREQUENCY REAL TIME FFT) No, I want a kit that has a minimum of 128 filters to 20 KHz. I don't want to have to program the ROMs or anything (smile). Seriously a project and kit using stacks of bar LED's would make a great stereoaddition to the home. Msg#:11697 *PROJECTS* 12-18-88 16:59:57 From: STEVE SAMPSON To: CARL HUFF Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 11684 (AUDIO FREQUENCY REAL TIME FFT) I second the motion. An LED display with 128 filters (256?) and about 10 rows of amplitude amplitude (darn line noise, must be Santa on his CB again). Ready before christmas (smile)... Msg#:11730 *PROJECTS* 12-19-88 09:43:52 From: STEVE CIARCIA To: CARL HUFF Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 11684 (AUDIO FREQUENCY REAL TIME FFT) We've discussed such a project but you do realize it is a big job. Perhaps we still will. You might want to consider using our big moving LED display to show the results :-) --Steve Msg#:11861 *PROJECTS* 12-23-88 07:40:12 From: DAVE MILLER To: CARL HUFF Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 11684 (AUDIO FREQUENCY REAL TIME FFT) Motorola has an audio "Digital Stereo 10-Band Graphic Equalizer" applications note out, using their DSP56001 Digital signal processor the working sample that they showed us at a recent demonstration did not have any LED's, but sounded nice. It looked fairly easy to build with a small hand full of IC's. The only problem I could see was it required the audio signal input in a digital form (they used a CD player that had been modified) however, using a decent A/D converter it looked like it could be used for any audio system. The aplication note number APR2/D also contains the software required. Msg#:11751 *PROJECTS* 12-19-88 21:26:35 From: BILL SOBEL To: ALEXANDER SCHNEIDER (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 5450 (R/C AND SONAR) Spinning matters greatly as some speculate that the singuarity does not spin at the actual center of the black hole but rather ORBITS the center. When the singularity spins the actual center of the black hole would be what has been called a worm hole (ie: time/space travel). It's easier to picture if you think of a doughnut.... Bill Msg#:12123 *PROJECTS* 12-30-88 13:10:29 From: ALEXANDER SCHNEIDER To: BOB PADDOCK (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 5505 (R/C AND SONAR) Tachions would also have more than infinite mass and be more than infinitely small. Well, you can talk about real time and imaginary time (that's right, sqrt(-1) seconds). When thinking of imaginary time, space-time becomes a Euclidean 4-space, however it isn't so easy when considering real time. Alex Msg#:12224 *PROJECTS* 01-02-89 14:11:16 From: BOB PADDOCK To: ALEXANDER SCHNEIDER (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 12123 (R/C AND SONAR) Define: "Time"? Msg#:12124 *PROJECTS* 12-30-88 13:12:58 From: ALEXANDER SCHNEIDER To: STEVE GREENHOUSE Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 5458 (R/C AND SONAR) For about $100 (I think) you can buy a desk-toy anti-grav unit. It uses an electromagnet to suspend a mass below it, and to prevent the mass (a magnet I think) from going all the way up or falling out of hte field, the position is sensed and used to modulate the electromagnet. Alex Msg#:12125 *PROJECTS* 12-30-88 13:14:22 From: ALEXANDER SCHNEIDER To: BOB PADDOCK (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 5506 (R/C AND SONAR) But, have we yet determined how these things work? If you're using 50-200 kvdc at about 50 watts, I would expect the things to work electrostatically. Alex Msg#:12225 *PROJECTS* 01-02-89 14:15:37 From: BOB PADDOCK To: ALEXANDER SCHNEIDER (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 12125 (R/C AND SONAR) (I've got to go back an refressh my memory on this message thread) Lets assume that it works electrostatially. If I applie my high voltage potential and the unit goes up, is that not anti-gravity? Gravity cause things to go down (fall) so anti-gravity should cause things to go up (or at least not fall)? To simplistic? Msg#:12335 *PROJECTS* 01-04-89 14:56:27 From: MARK PAYTON To: BOB PADDOCK (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 12225 (R/C AND SONAR) Bob, As I understand anti-gravity, it negates the effects of gravity, not merely counteracts them. A rocket rises because the force of the burning fuel pushes more strongly than the force of gravity pulls. True antigravity would eliminate the attraction that causes the rocket to stay on the ground thus allowing a very small amount of force to send the rocket up. Is my understanding flawed? I'm a physics hobbyist (lay person at that), and haven't studied it. Mark Msg#:12343 *PROJECTS* 01-04-89 19:49:50 From: ALEXANDER SCHNEIDER To: BOB PADDOCK (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 12225 (R/C AND SONAR) Not technically, because if you turned the system upside down, it would fall. More specifically, the object is still affected by the gravity of the earth. If somebody did make something disobey gravity, he wouldn't be able to hold on to it for long, because, unaffected by gravity, it would travel in a straight line, and the earth would soon rotate out from under it as it takes off in the path it was traveling the instant before it was released. Alex Msg#:12390 *PROJECTS* 01-05-89 12:16:26 From: BOB PADDOCK To: ALEXANDER SCHNEIDER (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 12343 (R/C AND SONAR) That sounds like what J. Searl had happen to his devices, at least till he figured out own to control it. Msg#:12467 *PROJECTS* 01-06-89 17:42:49 From: ALEXANDER SCHNEIDER To: BOB PADDOCK (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 12390 (R/C AND SONAR) That sounds a bit hard to believe. Msg#:12564 *PROJECTS* 01-08-89 19:01:35 From: BOB PADDOCK To: ALEXANDER SCHNEIDER (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 12467 (R/C AND SONAR) I find every day life hard to believe some of the time.... I've got to print out the thred so I can go over it again, will give you a better replie latter. Msg#:11763 *PROJECTS* 12-20-88 02:42:39 From: ARNOLD BERKOWITZ To: BCC-52 USERS Subj: 8052 ON IMAGEWISE I have implemented a rudimentary BCC-52 system on an Imagewise transmitter board. The 8052 differs from the 8031 in that the high order address lines are fed through pins 1-8 instead of 21-28. Otherwise the pinout is identical. To implement 8052AH-BASIC on the IW xmitr board remove the 74LS257 and jumper pin 3 to 4 and pin 6 to 7 allowing the CPU direct control of read and write. Remove the EPROM and pull the 74LS157 select line to +5V. Connect a terminal with a null modem cable to the IW RS-232 port. You should have no problem bringing up a bare bones system. You can leave one or both 62256 RAM chips in place. For more information you may call me at 619-421-8829 Wed-Fri. I'm leaving a .PIC file of the 40 pin DIP socket pinout jig I used to reroute the address lines without any invasive changes to the IW board. Its called 8052JIG.PIC Happy New Year !!! # @ * Msg#:11764 *PROJECTS* 12-20-88 02:45:21 From: ARNOLD BERKOWITZ To: BCC-52 OR 8052 USERS Subj: MANUALS FOR SALE I have available the Intel Microcontroller Manual (2 vol set) # 210918 covering the 8031 and 8052 used in many CCI projects. I'm selling them for $ 10. Call me at 619-421-8829 Wed-Fri or lv msg here. Msg#:11765 *PROJECTS* 12-20-88 02:47:53 From: ARNOLD BERKOWITZ To: BCC-52 OR 8052 USERS Subj: MULTIPLE USER GROUPS? A selective scan of the project message area by the search word 'BCC-52' or '8052' seems to retrieve two sets of dialogue streams. Is this my oversight or are there two independent groups of people talking about the same subject on this board ? Msg#:11767 *PROJECTS* 12-20-88 08:43:31 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: ARNOLD BERKOWITZ Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 11765 (MULTIPLE USER GROUPS?) You'll sometimes find two different discussion threads that may cover similar subjects, but be spaced several months apart in time. I haven't seen multiple independent discussions of a similar topic going on simultaneously, though. Msg#:11766 *PROJECTS* 12-20-88 02:50:36 From: ARNOLD BERKOWITZ To: CURTIS MACKEY Subj: INTEL SEMINARS In answer to your question about seminars on the Intel controller chips it turns out that Intel gives three day workshops on many of their CPU chips. They are held in about 5 U.S. cities, most promienently and with the best support staff in Santa Clara, Intel headquarters. Call Intel for more info. Msg#:11788 *PROJECTS* 12-21-88 03:16:08 From: GREG BELL To: DAVID K. MERRIMAN (Rcvd) Subj: EPROM ERASERS David- I recently built an EPROM eraser to go with a burner I built. As a few replies to you have stated, the tube you want is a flourescent germicidal tube. I did some intense shopping for this thing, because I didn't want to pay $20 for a light bulb. I also shopped on and off for about a year because it took me that long to get around to building the burner. I can tell you to forget hospital supply houses. Good bets are: local light bulb distributers, surplus electronics stores (at one time, one near me was letting them go for $6. They sold out before I could get to them!). I ended up getting mine for $11 or so, from a local Sylvania distributor (I think...or just a 'lights are us' type warehouse. Forget the stores). The part number is: G4T6. Its a 4W, 6" tube. It erases EPROMs for me in about 5 minutes. Incidentally, Intel's databooks say that it'll take about a week to erase EPROMs with sunlight, but it takes only a few hours. I encased this thing (along with the ballast, a starter, and two sockets) in an old electric razor case. It works great! Its a bit dangerous, because the box isn't completely light-tight, but I always sit the thing in the corner, where I can't see into the cracks. Good luck- . Greg Bell Msg#:11792 *PROJECTS* 12-21-88 03:44:29 From: GIL QUIZON To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 8645 (Z8 BOARD) Thanks for the info on the Z8 board and the NS405 chip. It's been a long time since I've logged on to the Cellar's bbs and I haven't really had any time to work on that project. As I remember it though, I finished putting it together but couldn't get to make it work. It's probably due to the incorrect wiring you refer to on the 1488/1489 (I had substituted a Max232 for the pair, does this make a difference?). I also substituted an 8k static ram chip for the 6132. Well, I guess I'll be looking for your book in the local library and see if I can still get this thing running. Thanks again. Msg#:11834 *PROJECTS* 12-22-88 10:22:14 From: STEVE CIARCIA To: GIL QUIZON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 11792 (Z8 BOARD) If you used a MAX-232 it would be wired differently from a 1488/89 of course. No reason it all shouldn't work. Keep trying. --Steve Msg#:11827 *PROJECTS* 12-22-88 07:46:50 From: STEVEN HIRSCH To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: NEW CHIP FOR AV/MUX Steve, In my search for parts and ideas for the 32x8 AV/MUX we are building, I ran across some very nice folks at Mitel Semiconductor. Unlike RCA/Harris/GE/Intersil, they seem to care that folks other than Fortune 500 companies use their products! We settled on the MT8816 for our switcher. It has some surface similarities to the RCA 22106, but handles about 4x(!!) the bandwidth through the analog switches, and can be powered from a bipolar supply while maintaining the ability to directly interface with TTL logic (no pullups). It is available in PLCC (44pin) and standard DIP 40-pin packages and, best of all, can actually be found! I will upload the names of several distributors soon, if there is an interest. It is ostensibly designed to interface with Motorola CPU's (positive true for STROBE, RESET, and CS, etc.), but this was not a big deal to adapt for the A-Bus (it works like a Z80 port..). They cost $12.00 in small quantities. Also hit upon a National chip which performs complete video seperation. May be the heart of a true vertical interval switcher!! More soon. Msg#:11986 *PROJECTS* 12-27-88 18:31:25 From: JIM NELSON To: STEVEN HIRSCH (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 11827 (NEW CHIP FOR AV/MUX) There isn't much to vertical interval switching. The LM1881 you (probably) were referring to gives you field id so that's no problem, though if you were doing this for a broadcast switcher you'd also be concerned with video color framing. Run the 1881 vertical sync signal into a micro's edge sensitive interrupt. Your interrupt task includes testing the status of the Field-ID bit which runs into a separate micro input port bit. ( Of course you can logically combine V-sync and Field-ID into a single signal, but that requires external hardware) Do your switching only during the alternating vertical sync intervals corresponding to the start of video frames. The principle problem I've encountered with the LM1881 is that unlike more sophisticated analog or digital PLL based video timing (re)generators there is a noticeable delay between the actual vertical sync signal in the input video and the vertical sync signal output by the 1881. If all your video sources are synchronized you'll only need to sample a single ( omnipresent) video input to get the proper timing. In pro gear this house sync signal is usually a black burst. Otherwise you might end up syncing to the last input to the output you're switching to - which means you'll need a way to sample all 32 input channels. Vertical interval switching of non- synchronous signals is of dubious merit anyway: if that's the case you might be better off putting your money into DC restoration circuitry for the outputs. Msg#:11989 *PROJECTS* 12-27-88 23:08:27 From: STEVEN HIRSCH To: JIM NELSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 11986 (NEW CHIP FOR AV/MUX) Wow! I appreciate the input.. I'm fairly new to the video field, though I know my way around computers fairly well. I had wondered about asynchronous vertical interval switching! We used a Vicon crosspoint switcher in an industrial situation where there was no master sync. I do not recall whether any rolling occured on program change or not. The switcher is primarily designed for heavy-duty remote scanning of security cameras, where a roll would be very distracting. Why do you feel that a black level restoration is of importance? Msg#:12997 *PROJECTS* 01-18-89 23:57:27 From: JIM NELSON To: STEVEN HIRSCH Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 11989 (NEW CHIP FOR AV/MUX) Well, dc restoration wouldn't be that important in simply scanning security cameras. It does seem to limit charge injected into those cmos crosspoint switches when switching, which translates to less noise. . In security work, frame synchronization matters most when you're feeding the video through the switcher into a vcr that's being used to record time mul- tiplexed single frames from individual cameras. This is a pretty common use of matrix switches. Although the roll created when crash switching unsynchronized cameras to a monitor is pretty grating, it's not as bad as trying to view tape recorded from such an unstable source, or trying to view individual video frames recorded from randomly switched source fields. . I am always looking for consulting work in this field, so if you need any help give me a call at (313) 482-0656. -- Jim Msg#:11899 *PROJECTS* 12-25-88 00:18:13 From: ARNOLD BERKOWITZ To: ALL Subj: EPROM PROBLEM ON BCC-52 I wire-wrapped my own version of the BCC-52 with 32K RAM and 8255 all working well. I can't seem to program more than a few bytes into 2764 EPROMs without getting either ERROR: PROGRAMMING or ERROR: INVALID LINE NUMBER I can program the autobaud rate with PROG1 every time successfully. If I substitute a 6264 RAM for the EPROM, I can write as many programs into it as I like with perfect fidelity. A memorydump of the EPROM from BASIC shows loc 8010H to 8016H filled with the beginnings of my sample program with the remainder being FFH. For some reason the CPU stops prematurely after only 6 bytes or so. I am using TMS 2764-25JL (250nSec). Any suggestions ? Is there a different brand or speed that may work? Also, unrelated to this, is there any difference between a $13 43256 RAM and a $ 17 62256 RAM of the same speed and pinout ? Happy New Year to the Group from sunny San Diego. Msg#:11977 *PROJECTS* 12-27-88 16:23:40 From: JEFF BACHIOCHI To: ARNOLD BERKOWITZ (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 11899 (EPROM PROBLEM ON BCC-52) Arnold, You don't give much info on the circuit! The first message is saying "The last byte I tried to write didn't get there!" The second message is probably one of jumbled pointers. Possible BUS contention by two devices active together. Bus loading is another possibility. Address and data line buffered properly? Each manufacturer marks chips differently. These two are the same , check for suffixes which might indicate one being low or super low power! jeff Msg#:12828 *PROJECTS* 01-14-89 13:05:37 From: ARNOLD BERKOWITZ To: JEFF BACHIOCHI (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 11977 (EPROM PROBLEM ON BCC-52) I seem to have correctly the EPROM programming problem, but inadequately. If I remove the 8255, I can now progam the EPROMS. APparently the 8255 is loading the bus in some way, although I'm using the LS343 to drive the low adress lines and a LS245 to drive the bidirectional data lines. 1k pullup resistors are attached to all bus lines and 0.1 uf caps are on all chips from vcc to gnd locally. Msg#:12980 *PROJECTS* 01-18-89 12:16:40 From: JEFF BACHIOCHI To: ARNOLD BERKOWITZ Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 12828 (EPROM PROBLEM ON BCC-52) Arnold, Check the *CS on the 8255 it should not go low at anytime during the programming process. Any transition would suggest an address decoding problem. 1K pullups are unnecessarily heavy, especially for a CMOS processor, 4.7K (even 10K) is OK. jeff Msg#:11904 *PROJECTS* 12-25-88 12:01:40 From: STEVEN HIRSCH To: KEN DAVIDSON (Rcvd) Subj: 180 CHIP AND SIO 'BREAK' Ken, since you have been immersed in the 180 chip for a while, maybe you are able to offer some advice. I just found out to my chagrin that the ASCI port has no apparent way of producing a 'BREAK' (xmit data high for 200-300 msec..). Unfortunately, the IR remote controller that I am interfacing it with (Universal One-For-All) requires a break to establish external serial communications. Setting the baud rate to 75, and sending a 0h ALMOST works but, due to the internal double-buffering, it is not easy to detect when the 'break' is complete. To detect the acknowledge from the remote, I need to be back at 4800 baud. If this occurs too early, the break is scrambled, if it is too late I miss the ACK. Am I on the right track, or is there an obvious trick that I am overlooking? Msg#:11928 *PROJECTS* 12-26-88 16:48:28 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: STEVEN HIRSCH (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 11904 (180 CHIP AND SIO 'BREAK') That's the trick most people try using with, as you've found out, variable success. You might try going one step further and setting the baud rate divisor for an external baud rate generator. Since there won't be one, you won't get any bits (besides the first one) clocked out. After a fixed amount of time, reset it back to the internal generator at 4800 bps. The extra bits will be clocked out and you'll be ready to receive a byte back at the proper rate. Msg#:11942 *PROJECTS* 12-27-88 07:32:11 From: STEVEN HIRSCH To: KEN DAVIDSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 11928 (180 CHIP AND SIO 'BREAK') Hmmmm. Seems to me that I tried that.. My impression was that NOTHING happened at all! However, when in the midst of frustration, it's easy to overlook the obvious. Also, the Hitachi specs seem to imply that, once the baud divisor latch is set for anything other than 'external', one cannot switch back to external at all! Are they simply referring to the PIN connection rather than internal function? I have found the Hitachi book to be infuriating for the number of subtleties which are not fully explained. Thanks again! Msg#:11964 *PROJECTS* 12-27-88 12:29:25 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: STEVEN HIRSCH (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 11942 (180 CHIP AND SIO 'BREAK') I've never actually used the external baud rate pin, so don't know. I know what you mean about the Hitachi book. I often end up having to experiment when something isn't clear. That isn't always possible, though. Msg#:11943 *PROJECTS* 12-27-88 07:45:27 From: MICHAEL MANDAP To: ED NISLEY (Rcvd) Subj: DDT51 Hello Ed. Thanks very much for the DDT51!!! It was just what I needed to learn assembly language. Of course I can't truly say I'm proficient at programming in assembly, but with the DDT51, I've been able to write some very useful and interesting code. Anyways, I've noticed in reading the board messages that there is a great deal of interest in the 8031. With that, I'd thought I'd give out some info that might be useful to others. But keep in mind that I still haven't subscribed to CCINK so maybe this info is outdated. For those who need literature on the 8031/51 I have found Signetics to be a very good source. In addition to second sourcing the 8031 they also have their own expanded versions of this chip. Look into the 87C451 for an expanded 6 port version of the 8031. Also there's the 83C652 and 83C552 as well as many other 8031 type micros. For assembling my code, I don't use the PseudoSam assembler source code format is too awkward for me. I found a public domain assembler for the 8031\8051. It might be availabe still on certain bulletin boards around the country. It doesn't generate relocatable code or other fancy things. But it will support macros and such. If anyone is interested in this assembler, it's called TASM.ARC on some boards. It was written by Thomas N. Anderson of Speech Technology Inc. 16321 176th Avenue NE Woodinville, WA 98072 dated March, 1986 version 2.2 If anyone in the L.A. area wishes to contact me about this assembler of about the ddt51 in general, leave me a message at CAMELOT (213) 204-6158 (That's another bulletin board) Thanks again for the DDT51. From Culver City, Ca Msg#:11967 *PROJECTS* 12-27-88 12:48:50 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: MICHAEL MANDAP (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 11943 (DDT51) How about uploading the assembler if you still have an original ARC file around? I plan to do some searching, but would still like to have it around if I can't find it. Msg#:12093 *PROJECTS* 12-29-88 20:59:47 From: ED NISLEY To: MICHAEL MANDAP (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 11943 (DDT51) Sounds good to me! The only catch with the Signetics parts is that they're a little harder to find than the stock Intel chips. It is a shame that Intel hasn't followed up the 8051 with improved versions... they've elected to pursue the 16 and 32 bit controller market, which prices them right out of the low end market. And the only way you get good at programming is by doing it! Keep up the good work... Msg#:12533 *PROJECTS* 01-08-89 04:50:28 From: MICHAEL MANDAP To: KEN DAVIDSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 11967 (DDT51) Well Ken, it's been a little while since I've been back on the board, so I don't know if you found it yet. One big correction though. The version that I have is NOT public domain but is SHAREWARE (which means if you continue to use it after a short time of free evaluation,...like I have, you should register it ...which I will). I'd like to upload it to the board I'd rather not raise my bill if you've already found it. Leave me a message if your still interested. By the way, if your in CA I posted it on the programmers exchange BBS (in other words, the UCLA BBS East) under the name TASM.ARC their number is (818)579-9711 Have fun with your DDT51! Msg#:12596 *PROJECTS* 01-09-89 09:08:30 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: MICHAEL MANDAP Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 12533 (DDT51) While I haven't found it yet, if the UCLA BBS East is PC Pursuitable, I'll track it down and download it myself. Otherwise, I'd appreciate the upload. I'll let you know if I have problems getting it. Msg#:12718 *PROJECTS* 01-11-89 23:48:44 From: JIM HUGHES To: MICHAEL MANDAP Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 11943 (DDT51) I am interested in getting more information on the 8031. You mentioned Signetics in your note. Can you give me their address? Have you found any other useful sources of info, examples of use, etc. on the 8031? Thanks. Msg#:11954 *PROJECTS* 12-27-88 10:24:46 From: KEN MUNKHOLM To: KEN DAVIDSON (Rcvd) Subj: SMARTSPOOLER Ken, I have built the Smartspooler (full kit) with a separate front panel display. The EEPROM rev is 1.0. The unit spools correctly but I am having troubles with the front panel. I have checked the panel repeatedly and found minor errors. The problem I am having now is that pin 39 of U24 (6812) is being held high. This occurs even if the daughterboard is unplugged from the main board. I have bent pins 2,4,6,8 of U25 (LS14) out of the socket to prevent contention. If I pull U24 out of the socket, power up and check pin 39 there is 0 volts there. Have I somehow damaged the 6821? Also, when I go into test mode, all the front panel lights flash at approx 4 HZ and I don't get the proper response on my terminal. Any help would be greatly appreciated. Have you had any complaints from people in Western Canada regarding not receiving the #6 issue of CCI? KEN Msg#:11965 *PROJECTS* 12-27-88 12:39:12 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: KEN MUNKHOLM (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 11954 (SMARTSPOOLER) Without being able to see the board and/or replace the chip, I can't tell what the problem is. At first it sounded like there might be a short, but if the high level goes away when you take the 6821 out of its socket, it sounds like that pin is what's outputting the high level. The first step I would take is to replace the 6821, but I can't be sure that would fix it. The flashing LEDs are caused by a bug in the 1.0 EPROM. You can either download the 1.1 EPROM image from here and burn your own replacement, or leave me your address and I'll get you a new EPROM. As for INK not making it to western Canada, to my knowledge we haven't had any other problems. If you've gotten issues before, then yours should be coming. If it's a new subscription, you might want to call our mailing list house to check on your status. They are called Yankee and are at (603) 563-8111 ext 214. Msg#:11988 *PROJECTS* 12-27-88 21:31:52 From: KEN MUNKHOLM To: KEN DAVIDSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 11965 (SMARTSPOOLER) Thanks for the quick reply, Ken. I will try replacing the 6821 and see if that does the trick. I was aware of the bug in ver. 1.0 but the indication didn't seem consistant with the description of an NMI in the assembly manual. My address is as follows. 417 Killarney Rd. Kelowna B.C. Canada V1X 5C6 I was a charter subcriber to CCI and have not had any problems before this. I have renewed and if I don't see #6 before mid Jan I will order a back issue. Once again, Thank you for your quick reply, Have a Happy New Year!! Ken M. Msg#:11978 *PROJECTS* 12-27-88 16:50:24 From: LARRY YOUNKINS To: ED NISLEY (Rcvd) Subj: IMAGEWISE Ed, I have a question concerning the test pattern generated by the ImageWise Receiver/Display at power-up. I've simulated this pattern in a C program by letting the image intensitz = (i+j)/4 where i and j are the row and n indices, respectively. All arithmetic is done modulo 64. The problem em is that the bit transitions on the display are glaringly obvious. My question is this, how is the test pattern generated? Is random dithering used to mask the bit transitions. What appears to be displayed is the transient response of the D/A. Any help is greatly appreciated. Thanks, Larry Younkins Msg#:12094 *PROJECTS* 12-29-88 21:00:27 From: ED NISLEY To: LARRY YOUNKINS (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 11978 (IMAGEWISE) Gotcha! Although the ImageWise receiver has an 8-bit DAC, the serial interface only handles 6-bit data... which is shifted over two bits so that one count is actually 4 brightness levels. The firmware generating the test pattern is exactly the same as your formula, except it's modulo 256 because I can get to the DAC directly... and that's why it's so smooth. There's no fancy dithering or other trickery, just a count that starts at the line number and runs up 256 counts from there. The mush you see on your screen probably has more to do with the transient response of your monitor than the DAC simply because the DAC can handle a much higher data rate than we're asking of it. It's amazing how low a frequency you really need for ordinary images... it's only when you have a "computer generated" picture that the flaws show up. Msg#:11998 *PROJECTS* 12-28-88 05:13:58 From: BRAD SMALLRIDGE To: ED NISLEY (Rcvd) Subj: DDT-51 Dear Ed, Finally got something to run on my DDT-51 but all is not well. I run DEBUG31, download the KERNEL, press F10 and get the screen on my PC just like the Circuit Cellar Ink with all the ED etc except for the disassembly which reads " PC=0055 -> ANL A,56 ". Can you figure that out? Further stepping reveals ANL A,@R1 ANL A,R2 ANL,R3 ANL,R5 and ANL A,R7. Although the dissasembly seems incorrect, the program does what it is suppose to do, that is add 12h to A and so on including blinking the LED. I'm running a minimal target as suggeted in Circuit Cellar Ink. I'm befuddled; it's got to be a software problem right? but why me? If it helps' I'm using software downloaded from this BBS I believe in August and the .COM file has 37426 bytes. Thanks . On another note, I use D86 alot to debug IBM PC software. Why is it that I can single step fairly nicely through the DEBUG31.COM program but when I try to step through the TESTER.COM I crash? Is there a difference in the way they are compiled? . I'm showing this project to the Robotics group here in San Francisco and many people seemed interested. Problem though is the interface. Few IBM PC's and fewer people willing to hack up there parallel printer port as I did. Question: How slow would serial be? And could it be driven in a fairly simple BASIC? Msg#:12090 *PROJECTS* 12-29-88 20:56:38 From: ED NISLEY To: BRAD SMALLRIDGE (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 11998 (DDT-51) Hmm... The hex values for those instructions you're seeing correspond to 55 56 57 5A 5B and so forth, which certainly sounds suspiciously like the addresses involved. We didn't have a bug like that (someone else would certainly have come up with the same symptom and it's memorable enough that I'd distinctly recall swatting it), so I suspect it's a hardware problem. Check to make sure that your target system has the gate combining PSEN and RD, because earlier versions of DEBUG31 didn't handle that correctly (with different symptoms, though). At the risk of running up your connect time, download the new versions of the code and see if that solves the problem. If not (or if something new and interesting crops up) we've got a new one on our hands. As far as single stepping through TESTER goes, it uses nearly all the same code as DEBUG31. I can't think of a good reason for it to curl up and die. Of course, that's how I feel about all bugs until I find out what's actually going on... then I feel stupid again. We kicked the idea of a serial interface around and decided that it added far too much circuitry to the board. There's nothing inherently wrong with it and it surely won't put much of a dent in the response time... after all, that's the way most "real" debuggers work! We don't have any plans for a serial converter, but maybe somebody could cook one up. You'd have to design a command interface because the current code depends on writing directly into a variety of registers and ports on the board, but that shouldn't be too hard. For what it's worth, EMAIL is the only type of message that can't be seen by everyone else. You might want to use general messages so everyone can see what's going on and pounce on solutions before I get around to signing on. There's no reason to feel shy about the occasional blunder; we've all made a few good ones in the last few months! Msg#:12151 *PROJECTS* 12-31-88 04:32:19 From: BRAD SMALLRIDGE To: ED NISLEY (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 12090 (DDT-51) Dear Ed, Thanks for the reply. I'll keep poking around in the hardware for the problem. Not shy about mistakes -- stupid about using BBS. I'll try to leave message in general message area next time. Thanks Brad Msg#:11999 *PROJECTS* 12-28-88 07:57:56 From: STEVEN HIRSCH To: KEN DAVIDSON (Rcvd) Subj: 180 CHIP & BREAK (AGAIN..) Ken, I tried your suggestion for generating a 'break' from the 180 ASCI by setting the baud divisors to 'external'. It does not work for me. The chip apparently is waiting for a clock edge to commence the start bit, ie. nothing happens at all. If I attempt to fake it out by starting transmission with a legal divisor value, then switching to external before the transmission has ended, it kills the data output immediately. I'm curious.. Have you ever tried this? Does it work for you? I should add that this is being tested on our Apple co-processor board, the CardZ180. It has no particular hardware similarities to the SB180. We use the PLCC packaged 180 chip, with one meg of DRAM. I note that they multiplex functions on the external clock line. Could this have anything to do with the fact that this does not seem to work for me? Steve P.S. - I am having a LOT of trouble uploading a prepared message. The formatter seems to be enforcing it's own ideas! Should the prepared file not have any 's or what?? Msg#:12002 *PROJECTS* 12-28-88 08:42:32 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: STEVEN HIRSCH (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 11999 (180 CHIP & BREAK (AGAIN..)) I thought that might happen (waiting for a clock edge), but wasn't sure when I made the suggestion. I've never tried it; it was just an educated guess. Like I said, you sometimes have to try these things out before knowing if they will work, and I guess in this case it won't. The best you can do, then, is set the internal baud rate generator to its slowest value and make do. I don't think the multiplexed signal on the pin has anything to do with it. As for prepared message text, as long as you use a binary protocol to upload the message, you should be able to prepare it just about any way you want. If you upload using ASCII, then you have to be sure there is at least one space on any line meant to be blank. A line with just a carriage return signals the end of the upload. If you have a series of lines that are meant to be distinct (a table or a program listing), be sure each line starts with at least one space. The system tries to automatically wrap lines into paragraphs, so if you don't start individual lines with spaces, your program listing ends up as one long paragraph. Msg#:12308 *PROJECTS* 01-04-89 06:36:45 From: PELLERVO KASKINEN To: STEVEN HIRSCH Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 11999 (180 CHIP & BREAK (AGAIN..)) Why not try the method used in the IMP overlay? Instead of going to lowest possible speed, go to the highest - 38400 and then send a stream of characters (either nulls or FF's) that produces the desired bit pattern for a required time. The inherent filtering supposedly causes this to appear as a single long signal. -- PJK Msg#:12052 *PROJECTS* 12-29-88 00:44:16 From: KYL SCOTT To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: RS-232 BRKOUT BOX Hello, I have a question. In the April 1983 BYTE, Steve's project is an RS-232 Breakout box. On page 44, there is a picture of a decade voltmeter prototype circuit and the corresponding schematic. However, the two do not agree. In the bottom center of the picture is a 20 K Ohm resistor that is not in the schematic. There is however an 18 K Ohm resistor in the schematic that can be found in the center of the picture. As I am building this project I would appreciate any imformation that anyone would have about this "mystery resistor". I can be reached at 612-473-4986 and I will check this board again in a day or two. Thank you very much. Kyl Scott Msg#:12074 *PROJECTS* 12-29-88 11:07:39 From: STEVE CIARCIA To: KYL SCOTT (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 12052 (RS-232 BRKOUT BOX) Actually, either 18K or 20K could be used in this circuit. Generally, you should always believe the schematics. I build a circuit, test it, then update the schematic to whatever performed best. The picture could have been taken at any point along the process and is not necessarily the last revision. --Steve Msg#:12099 *PROJECTS* 12-30-88 00:26:16 From: KYL SCOTT To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: THANK YOU Thank you. I wasn't sure and just wanted to double check while I was waiting on parts. Have a happy new years, etc. Kyl Msg#:12136 *PROJECTS* 12-30-88 20:56:18 From: JOSEPH D GRADECKI To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: MAX232 Steve, I have a question on the MAX232 chip. I have been trying to get a response from my terminal using this chip and an 8031. I am able to send information to the terminal but not back. I am wondering if I have blown the chip because if I repeatedly type on the keyboard of my terminal, that little chip will get too hot to touch. I suspect that early on I blew the chip and internal traces have crossed or been wiped out. Today when I started everything up, my message to the terminal was garbage, but when the chip got hot the message was plain as day. Any help would be appreciated! joe Msg#:12209 *PROJECTS* 01-02-89 10:13:22 From: STEVE CIARCIA To: JOSEPH D GRADECKI (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 12136 (MAX232) CMOS chips don't usually get hot unless there is a problem. My bet it that you creamed it. --Steve PS Sounds like an external short. Msg#:12288 *PROJECTS* 01-03-89 19:39:07 From: JOSEPH D GRADECKI To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 12209 (MAX232) Thanks for the help. joe ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Msg#:12188 *PROJECTS* 01/01/89 18:51:57 From: STEVE SMITH To: IMAGEWISE USERS Subj: CGA AND HERCULES DISPLAYS Circuit Cellar has declined to support CGA and Hercules displays for Image Wise becuase they do not provide sufficient resolution. Although I use VGA and extended VGA for most applications, the low resultion displays are not entirely useless. With a little ajustment to get proper aspect ratio, cga in 640x200 or Hecules monocrhome graphics adapters as display 4 Image Wise pics in 4 shades of grey. These displays can be considerable enhanced by locating edges in the original 64 shade picture and inverting those pixels in the 4 shade display. Faces are recognizable. So are most landscpe type sceens. I have uploaded two programs that demonstrate this concept. IW-HGC.ARC is for mono chrome graphics and IW-CGA.ARC is for CGA. Both ARCs contain a sample image plus a program to display it or any other ImageWise format file. Comment appreciated. Msg#:12194 *PROJECTS* 01/01/89 23:07:38 From: SAM RAPP To: ALL Subj: MICRO D CAM I am intrested in hearing from anyone who has improved on the Micro D-Cam project from the Sept-83 circuit cellar. I am intrested in using a derivitive of it as an imaging device for a telescope. What I need is a higher resolution and at least 16 grey level device that is more sensitive to lower light. Any help would be appreciated!! ------> Thanks <-------> Sam Rapp Msg#:12197 *PROJECTS* 01/02/89 00:20:37 From: DARRYL HOLDER To: SAM RAPP Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 12194 (MICRO D CAM) I have worked some with the Micro D Cam as stock. My use is for robotic "eyes". I have found that it has definate limitations as to sesitivity, as you apparently found also. Micron Technology announced some years ago (about '85 I think) that they had a larger squarish sensor of higher defination. I haven't seen any reference to it lately though. Micron Tech had an IS-32 usre's group as of '85 that listed two persons applying the system to astronomy, they were: Gary Emerson, 34226 Gap Road Golden Colorado 80403 (reading astronomical photos) and David McDavid Star Route Box 129 A, Helotes, Texas 78023 (Astronomical imaging w/ telescope). Have not heard any more about the user's group since the first publication. I think you will be better off using a decient CCD (or even vidicon) camera and a standard frame-grabber for ypur uses. Msg#:12217 *PROJECTS* 01/02/89 11:36:14 From: STEVE CIARCIA To: SAM RAPP Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 12194 (MICRO D CAM) I would recommend ImageWise with a CCD camera. While the IS-32 has been used for astromomy, there is no comparison in sensitivities. --Steve Msg#:12270 *PROJECTS* 01/03/89 10:10:06 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: SAM RAPP Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 12194 (MICRO D CAM) Our improvement to the original Dcam is the ImageWise video digitizer and upcoming ImageWise/PC board that plugs into the IBM PC bus. I remember when I first developed the GREY16 software, I was amazed at the resulting pictures. You could actually recognize objects that the computer was seeing. After working with ImageWise for almost two years now, I look back at the original Dcam article and am embarrassed by how bad it looks. There is just no comparison and the ImageWise doesn't cost a lot more. I'm not sure it will work in a telescope application (depends on your design factors), but it blows Dcam away. Msg#:12199 *PROJECTS* 01/02/89 00:30:49 From: GRANT FAIR To: BOB PADDOCK (Rcvd) Subj: MESSAGE 3892 - SCHUMANN FREQUENCY bOB, The Schumann frequency - you asked in above message number - has been calculated at different f's, including 7.489 (Toomey & Polk, 1970). See the book The Kundalini Experience, by Lee Sanella, M.D., Integral Publishing, P.O.Box 1030, Lower Lake CA 95457. Great book on meditation and phsiological correlates! Msg#:12228 *PROJECTS* 01/02/89 14:28:26 From: BOB PADDOCK To: GRANT FAIR (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 12199 (MESSAGE 3892 - SCHUMANN FREQUENCY) Thanks for the info, I'll drop them a line to see what kind of trouble I can get my self into. Msg#:12209 *PROJECTS* 01/02/89 10:13:22 From: STEVE CIARCIA To: JOSEPH D GRADECKI (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 12136 (MAX232) CMOS chips don't usually get hot unless there is a problem. My bet it that you creamed it. --Steve PS Sounds like an external short. Msg#:12288 *PROJECTS* 01/03/89 19:39:07 From: JOSEPH D GRADECKI To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 12209 (MAX232) Thanks for the help. joe Msg#:13264 *PROJECTS* 01/25/89 06:33:59 From: GARY LEAR To: JOSEPH D GRADECKI (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 12136 (MAX232) Early Maxim data sheets made an error in the external configuration of the voltage doubler (capacitors). Double-check with Maxim to ensure that you have accurate info on this. Good luck. --Gary Msg#:12224 *PROJECTS* 01/02/89 14:11:16 From: BOB PADDOCK To: ALEXANDER SCHNEIDER (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 12123 (R/C AND SONAR) Define: "Time"? Msg#:12225 *PROJECTS* 01/02/89 14:15:37 From: BOB PADDOCK To: ALEXANDER SCHNEIDER (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 12125 (R/C AND SONAR) (I've got to go back an refressh my memory on this message thread) Lets assume that it works electrostatially. If I applie my high voltage potential and the unit goes up, is that not anti-gravity? Gravity cause things to go down (fall) so anti-gravity should cause things to go up (or at least not fall)? To simplistic? Msg#:12335 *PROJECTS* 01/04/89 14:56:27 From: MARK PAYTON To: BOB PADDOCK (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 12225 (R/C AND SONAR) Bob, As I understand anti-gravity, it negates the effects of gravity, not merely counteracts them. A rocket rises because the force of the burning fuel pushes more strongly than the force of gravity pulls. True antigravity would eliminate the attraction that causes the rocket to stay on the ground thus allowing a very small amount of force to send the rocket up. Is my understanding flawed? I'm a physics hobbyist (lay person at that), and haven't studied it. Mark Msg#:12343 *PROJECTS* 01/04/89 19:49:50 From: ALEXANDER SCHNEIDER To: BOB PADDOCK (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 12225 (R/C AND SONAR) Not technically, because if you turned the system upside down, it would fall. More specifically, the object is still affected by the gravity of the earth. If somebody did make something disobey gravity, he wouldn't be able to hold on to it for long, because, unaffected by gravity, it would travel in a straight line, and the earth would soon rotate out from under it as it takes off in the path it was traveling the instant before it was released. Alex Msg#:12390 *PROJECTS* 01/05/89 12:16:26 From: BOB PADDOCK To: ALEXANDER SCHNEIDER (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 12343 (R/C AND SONAR) That sounds like what J. Searl had happen to his devices, at least till he figured out own to control it. Msg#:12467 *PROJECTS* 01/06/89 17:42:49 From: ALEXANDER SCHNEIDER To: BOB PADDOCK (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 12390 (R/C AND SONAR) That sounds a bit hard to believe. Msg#:12564 *PROJECTS* 01/08/89 19:01:35 From: BOB PADDOCK To: ALEXANDER SCHNEIDER (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 12467 (R/C AND SONAR) I find every day life hard to believe some of the time.... I've got to print out the thred so I can go over it again, will give you a better replie latter. Msg#:12308 *PROJECTS* 01/04/89 06:36:45 From: PELLERVO KASKINEN To: STEVEN HIRSCH Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 11999 (180 CHIP & BREAK (AGAIN..)) Why not try the method used in the IMP overlay? Instead of going to lowest possible speed, go to the highest - 38400 and then send a stream of characters (either nulls or FF's) that produces the desired bit pattern for a required time. The inherent filtering supposedly causes this to appear as a single long signal. -- PJK Msg#:12341 *PROJECTS* 01/04/89 19:25:51 From: WAYNE LEANZA To: ED NISLEY (Rcvd) Subj: DDT-51 bus.tst about line 150 does have SETsr(XALE,OFF) as needed to gateXWR but how does SetSR(XPSEN,OFF) allowXRD gating XPSEN (a.k.a. *XPS) os input to the and gate IC15-10 along with *XRD IC15-9. Seems to me that SetSR(XPSEN,on) would gate*XRD unless the circuit is wrong ? Msg#:12526 *PROJECTS* 01/07/89 22:25:24 From: ED NISLEY To: WAYNE LEANZA (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 12341 (DDT-51) Gotcha! Turns out that SetSR accepts the LOGICAL signal level for a bit and turn it into the PHYSICAL level. So if the PHYSICAL signal is inverted, SetSR(..,OFF) corresponds to a HIGH voltage, which is just what that gate needs. Take a look in BUSINTF.P for the actual mechanics. Up around line 60 there's a really short note about how the bit state definitions work. Down around line 260 in SetSR you can see that the "negative-active" lines get OR'd with a bit to turn them off. How's that for minimal doc? That stuff made a lot of sense at the time, but I'm not convinced it was the right way to go because you're not the first person to get tripped up. Maybe the reason is there's not a lot of explanation in those files; if you miss it you're lost without a trace. Mercifully, this is a case where both the comments and the code do the same thing. Sometimes the comments work perfectly and the code fails, sometimes it's the other way around. Occasionally you find a case where neither the code nor the comments work, but in different, equally bizarre, ways... Msg#:12347 *PROJECTS* 01/04/89 20:27:19 From: VINCENT J. TANCREDI To: ALL Subj: HAL4 I'm a first time reader if both CCI and this BBS. FANTASTIC!!!! Finally a real hands-on type of atmosphere. I would like to know if the HAL-4 can be used to drive the Synergy card (listed in Radio-Electronics) to drive thier sound effects generators? I know they use a memory-mapped I/O as opposed to the usual PC input/output ports. I think they also have some extra digital i/o lines on a parallel port. It would be great to have an audio as well as visual feedback from HAL. Anyone have any ideas?? Msg#:12399 *PROJECTS* 01/05/89 15:33:55 From: JEFF BACHIOCHI To: VINCENT J. TANCREDI (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 12347 (HAL4) Vincent, I have not seen the Synergy card you refer to. Direct connection of the HAL to the Synergy board, even if it has a RS232 communications port, would prove fruitless. HAL's output is REALTIME DATA of all frequencies (4-20Hz.) The purpose of the PC, or any other computer receiving HAL's transmissions, is to record the DATA, remove from the DATA information on each frequency of interest and display it. In the case of our demo software, the DATA for each frequency is displaed as bar. The length of the bar is proportional to the strength of the signal. We could have used the speaker (or a sound effects card) to play diferent tones for each frequency. With the amplitude of the tone reflecting the signal strength. This type of programming is left to you. We prefer to provide the user with the tools for experimentation and leave indivual applications to the masses. jeff Msg#:12475 *PROJECTS* 01/06/89 23:15:59 From: VINCENT J. TANCREDI To: JEFF BACHIOCHI (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 12399 (HAL4) Jeff, Thank you for the fast reply! I realize that it was a sort of off the wall idea, but I didn't know to much about either board. I thiught it would be a neato idea to mate the two. At any rate , thanks for your time to answer me. Very few other other poeple would have had the patience to do it. Jim (aka Vincent) Msg#:12355 *PROJECTS* 01/04/89 22:58:24 From: TOM KREYCHE To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: DDT-51 steve, i saw an earlier note concerning the availability of the ddt-51 circuit board, it was not clear if it can be ordered from this bbs, or if one must wait for the next INK to come out. also, i am curious why you are not using eeproms for projects.... thanks, tom Msg#:12385 *PROJECTS* 01/05/89 11:48:08 From: STEVE CIARCIA To: TOM KREYCHE (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 12355 (DDT-51) The DDT-51 pc board is being made but we decided to wait until the March INK to announce it officially (make sure we have all the software, manual, etc). Of course, if it is ready before then, you can order it. We'll let people on the BBS know first of course, but ordering will still have to be done by mail. ---Steve Msg#:12406 *PROJECTS* 01/05/89 18:06:34 From: WAYNE LEANZA To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: DDT-51 Dear Steve, ddt-51 project finally got built. All types of problems. Ithough that XPS,OFF set it low ; well that was wrong but still I got an error during the to/from 8031 test. It was mux 01 should be 00 was 80. Eventually found the preoblem .Cross talk beteween pins 16 and 17 on the IBM parallel port connector. Other pins (PCDATA0 thru PCDATA7) are not critical as they are lathced but the clock signals are critical. THe accessOK command in the BUS.TST file would put a clock pulse to IC9-11 as it should but also it would cause new data to latch across IC12. Now Everything seems OK as soon as I can get the Target system built !!! Msg#:12424 *PROJECTS* 01/05/89 22:14:51 From: JOSEPH D GRADECKI To: ALL Subj: 6264/62256 Can any one help me with this one? Are there any signifigant differences between the 6264 chip and the 62256. With ram socket wired pin 20 for chip select and pin 26 to A13, a 62256 works just fine when addressing say 4000H to 5FFFH (Ram decoded at 4000H) but pop a 6264 into the same socket and am not able to write to chip. Seems to me it's a chip select problem. ANy information would be helpful. joe Msg#:12449 *PROJECTS* 01/06/89 12:18:42 From: BOB PADDOCK To: JOSEPH D GRADECKI (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 12424 (6264/62256) I believe the 6264 has an active chip enable on pin 26, along with the active low chip enable at pin-20. If you address the 6264 so that A13 is high (pin 26) then it will probably work. The pin 26 high enable is used in battery back up applications. Msg#:12635 *PROJECTS* 01/09/89 17:42:00 From: NEIL CHERRY To: JOSEPH D GRADECKI (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 12424 (6264/62256) As I recall 4000H is above the 6264 8k range 1000H = 4096 bytes (doesn't it?). The 62256 is a 32K chip. NJC Msg#:12719 *PROJECTS* 01/12/89 00:13:58 From: JOSEPH D GRADECKI To: BOB PADDOCK (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 12449 (6264/62256) That was the problem. I tied pin 26 to A13 because I normally use the 62256 but was able to get a few 6264 chip cheap. Thanks One question for anybody. Using a MAX232 chip, I wrote a small piece of code to send the letter 'A' to a terminal and then wait for a response, if I simple tie pins 10 and 11 of the 8031 together before the chip everything works great. If I then send the signals through the MAX232 I am not able to receive anything. I am able to transmit great. The chip is brand new. I am just not able to send to the computer from my terminal. I am using a clone of the Radio-Shack 100 for the terminal. I have alsoo tried to use my Appleand still the ability to send back does not work. Is there something I am missing? Msg#:12806 *PROJECTS* 01/13/89 21:42:27 From: STEVEN HARGUS To: NEIL CHERRY (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 12635 (6264/62256) Be sure you use the recommended circuit with that chip, especially the charge pump capacitors. Otherwise, the chip won't function properly. Assuming that the chip is wired correctly and functional (if you have an oscilloscope, you could scope the charge pump capacitors to be sure its "pumping") I can't think of anything that would keep it from working. If you can, put a scope on the input and corresponding output pins of the chip (it is possible your brand-new chip really IS defective. It's happened to me before...) and be sure it really is working. Then try tying each input in sequence first high, then low and watch the corresponding output to be sure everything works. (this you can do with a voltmeter.) Sorry, but nothing else comes to mind.... Msg#:12497 *PROJECTS* 01/07/89 11:35:06 From: WILLIAM WHITTON To: KEN DAVIDSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 9757 (NEEDED DESPERATELY!) Thats true, but we need someone to design an interface that will allow these projects to run from other machines other than the BM for instance. Lets say, I have an Atari ST, and want to use a project for the IBM. Easy enough to run the software, just run my IBM emulator program, and away she goes. but the hardware, although not difficult, is time time consuming, and many of us dont have it! Thats where we need a bit of help. /s Msg#:12501 *PROJECTS* 01/07/89 12:16:56 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: WILLIAM WHITTON Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 12497 (NEEDED DESPERATELY!) I still don't agree with your assertion that the hardware is difficult to use with machines other than IBM PCs. Look back at my original list of projects. Every one of those projects uses a standard RS-232 serial connection except the DDT-51, which uses a bidirectional parallel port. And since parallel ports are more likely to have been done correctly on newer machines like the Atari, using it on such a machine is probably easier than on an IBM (from a hardware standpoint). Cite some specific examples (besides those designed to be plugged into the IBM PC bus like the OEM-286 and ImageWise/PC) and maybe I'll start to see your side. Msg#:12529 *PROJECTS* 01/08/89 03:06:24 From: BILL CURLEW To: CHRIS STARTTON Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 10334 (Z80) The only z80 assembler I have ever used is the product for the TRS-80 MOD I computer. (GASP!!!). Yes folks, there are still uses for that old technology. There are several references to "shareware" and "free" assemblers in messages on this board. Poke around and see what you can find. I'll bet Ken Davidson knows where some are hidden. Bill Msg#:12530 *PROJECTS* 01/08/89 03:09:25 From: BILL CURLEW To: DAVID GOLDMAN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 10608 (IRCOMM PROJECT) Hi, If the code I wrote was ever "modified" for the IBM clones, I am unaware of it. Since I tend to write assembler in a sort of "RISC" it should be pretty straight forward to convert over. I find that using a limited subset of instructions that are common to most micros makes coding and debugging much easier. Bill Msg#:12533 *PROJECTS* 01/08/89 04:50:28 From: MICHAEL MANDAP To: KEN DAVIDSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 11967 (DDT51) Well Ken, it's been a little while since I've been back on the board, so I don't know if you found it yet. One big correction though. The version that I have is NOT public domain but is SHAREWARE (which means if you continue to use it after a short time of free evaluation,...like I have, you should register it ...which I will). I'd like to upload it to the board I'd rather not raise my bill if you've already found it. Leave me a message if your still interested. By the way, if your in CA I posted it on the programmers exchange BBS (in other words, the UCLA BBS East) under the name TASM.ARC their number is (818)579-9711 Have fun with your DDT51! Msg#:12596 *PROJECTS* 01/09/89 09:08:30 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: MICHAEL MANDAP (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 12533 (DDT51) While I haven't found it yet, if the UCLA BBS East is PC Pursuitable, I'll track it down and download it myself. Otherwise, I'd appreciate the upload. I'll let you know if I have problems getting it. Msg#:13166 *PROJECTS* 01/23/89 04:09:58 From: MICHAEL MANDAP To: KEN DAVIDSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 12596 (DDT51) Sorry I've been so long in replying. TASM.ARC is also available from Richard Gross' Quantum Connection in Pacific Palisades CA (that's in L.A.) I believe they are PC Pursuitable. The number is 213-459-6748. AND the version on this board is the 1987 version of TASM (I'ts much smaller, also supports the 8080 and Z-80 micros AND much FASTER!) I hope you find it useful. Msg#:13170 *PROJECTS* 01/23/89 09:04:05 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: MICHAEL MANDAP (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 13166 (DDT51) After all our TASM discussion, I happened to notice that we've had it posted here since October. I don't often list the files and noticed it while doing maintenece the other day. Thanks anyway. Msg#:12718 *PROJECTS* 01/11/89 23:48:44 From: JIM HUGHES To: MICHAEL MANDAP (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 11943 (DDT51) I am interested in getting more information on the 8031. You mentioned Signetics in your note. Can you give me their address? Have you found any other useful sources of info, examples of use, etc. on the 8031? Thanks. Msg#:13167 *PROJECTS* 01/23/89 04:22:21 From: MICHAEL MANDAP To: JIM HUGHES Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 12718 (DDT51) Well, Jim. To be honest, I'm new to all of this myself! I'm still learning how to program this chip. I've been real lucky because here in L.A. Intel and Signetics as well as a lot of other companies are just a stone's throw away. I'm sure that you can find their 800 numbers from information. As for how I've gone about learning the 8031? Well, originally I found a few products that did some really neat things. They used Intel's 8048. Somehow or another I stumbled onto the 8031 (which with it's Boolean instruction set is much easier to work with--at least for me) Anyways, I was determined to learn assembler so I too could make some useful projects. So, I read Don Lancaster's Micro Cookbook Volumes I and II. Got hold of TASM.ARC, built the DDT51, and typed away. Of course I don't know too much yet. But I've finally started. As for examples of code, I hand disassembled some code from some ROMS and in the process, learned quite a bit. Anyways, gotta go. If your not already into micro programming, get into it! Subscribe to CCInk get back issues of magazines and have lots of fun. Oh yeah last minute thought, I remember seeing a low cost 8051 simulator for the PC in an ad in Radio-Electronics. The firm is in San Diego, CA. I can't remember their name and I don't know much about the simulator. But call them up...it's only about $100 I think. Msg#:12536 *PROJECTS* 01/08/89 07:12:31 From: BILL CURLEW To: ED NISLEY (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 11297 (8031 TARGET SYSTEMS) Ed, You can move into code memory by using the MOVC command, which is the code memory alter-ego of the MOVX command. The only difference between them is the use of the ACC reg as an index as well as the source/dest of the data byte transferred. Bill Msg#:12675 *PROJECTS* 01/11/89 08:50:56 From: MIKE FIRTH To: ED NISLEY (Rcvd) Subj: MASTER CONTROLLER It has become clear to me that blind folks and people with MS and certain other diseases would gain by having a talking computer directly control audio/video devices using the master remote. It was not clear in the original article that this could be done, but the messages I down loaded yesterday included a reference to a PC software command to push a key on the master unit. What is the best way to get preliminary information on the flexibility of the unit in this area -- old issues of INK, software listing? Has anyone done this already? Thank you, Mike Msg#:12678 *PROJECTS* 01/11/89 09:15:11 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: MIKE FIRTH (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 12675 (MASTER CONTROLLER) There is a file in the project files area that describes the protocol used by the IBM and the Master Controller to communicate, and also has details on using the remote button pushing feature. I don't remember the file's name, but it is listed with the rest of the Master Controller files. Msg#:12796 *PROJECTS* 01/13/89 20:15:45 From: ED NISLEY To: MIKE FIRTH (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 12675 (MASTER CONTROLLER) The remote key press option works, but I'm not sure it's the key to greatness for the IR Master Controller. Mostly it's there because I figured it might come in handy some day. Actually trying to drive the thing through the serial port raises all sorts of interesting timing issues, as there is zilch feedback on when things are finished. The whole thing runs without interrupts, so you don't get anything back until it's finished with the current polling loop, but there's no guarantee on how long that takes. A better way to do it would be to add a real serial interface so the PC could take charge and run things without the firmware getting in the way. That's a good distance down on the "to do" heap, though, so it's not going to happen in the near future. Nothing is ever simple... Msg#:12998 *PROJECTS* 01/19/89 00:21:13 From: MIKE FIRTH To: ED NISLEY (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 12796 (MASTER CONTROLLER) THANKS Msg#:12735 *PROJECTS* 01/12/89 07:31:04 From: BOB PADDOCK To: JOSEPH D GRADECKI (Rcvd) Subj: (6264/62256) The only thing that I can think of at the moment is that some of the very earily MAX232 data sheets showed one of the charge pump caps backwards, and the part tended to not work reliably that way. I beleive that all of the MAX232 show in INK are correct. Msg#:12753 *PROJECTS* 01/12/89 18:30:43 From: GARY M DAVIS To: JEFF BACHIOCHI (Rcvd) Subj: HCS I bought the HCS from Micromint, without casing,keyboard,or battery backup. I have a parallel encoded keyboard, a T.V. , and a Hayes compatible modem connected. The RAM is 16K. I have set the baud at 1200 ( JP-4 ); JP-1 is removed due to modem; and JP3-2 is installed for password . Per the manual, if there are serial devices connected ( like my modem ) JP3-1 should not be installed. However unless it is installed I cannot start the HCS -- it hangs at the password entry ( i.e. when it asks for the initial password ). When I start the HCS with JP3-1 installed all seems to work fine except when my modem answers the phone, the remote PC makes the connection but there is no video received from the HCS !! ( it is possible that this latter problem -- no video -- is a function of not getting the modems to talk to each other properly... I am yet to get it right ). I even tried starting the HCS with JP3-1 installed , then removed it --- the result was that the modem would answer the phone when it wanted ( 1st ring or 8th ring or not at all)-- as a result I have not tried the remote PC with this setup. Any ideas ??? Another question I have -- the board is mounted on a plywood board -- is there to ground the unit ? if so, how is this simply done -- using the ground clip areas ?? Thanks Msg#:12966 *PROJECTS* 01/18/89 08:57:57 From: JEFF BACHIOCHI To: GARY M DAVIS (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 12753 (HCS) Gary, You are correct! When JP3-1 is installed, the processor knows to disregard any of the signals (or lack of signals) from the serial port. This must be removed for proper operation. JP1's installation removes the MODEM's ability to signal the HCS that a call has been answered (carrier detect.) The best place to start is to connect your PC as a terminal. Verify that the serial port is working in both directions. Remember the MODEM must be on first so it doesn't miss the set-up info sent by the HCS! Check to see if carrier detect does move the CTS line on IC16 (6850 uart.) As for grounding the system, a heavy wire from the terminal blocks ground to a water pipe (metal) will sufficiently ground the HCS. jeff Msg#:12763 *PROJECTS* 01/13/89 02:19:43 From: GREG BELL To: ALL Subj: 8031 I/OING What might the disadvantage(s) be of interfacing I/O stuff to an 8031 with memory mapping instead of using the 8255s??? I figure most of my i/o chips can be tri-stated... plus most of them need some sort of data latch signal, which would be easy to generate with the 8031 memory request signals. But, if I used an 8255, it would require an extra bit for each chip that needed a latch signal. ...........................................................Greg Bell Msg#:12797 *PROJECTS* 01/13/89 20:18:41 From: ED NISLEY To: GREG BELL (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 12763 (8031 I/OING) Say that again with different words... I don't quite understand what you're trying to do. EVERYTHING in the 8031 is memory mapped, even those 8255s. The outputs are set whenever you write (MOVX) to them, which is just what you want. They're not tri-state-able, but you can read them back through the 8255. If you use separate latches (like an LS374) you will have to add a separate gate (like an LS244) to read the outputs back. You also have to add an address decoder that combines with WR to trip the latch when you do the requisite MOVX. Hmmm? Msg#:12794 *PROJECTS* 01/13/89 20:12:16 From: ED NISLEY To: BILL CURLEW (Rcvd) Subj: MOVC AND MOVX Yeah. All you have to do is decide which one you want and you get it right the first time. Having the two address spaces overlapped made me pick MOVX because it avoided clearing the accumulator... So now it works both ways (so I think). Msg#:12820 *PROJECTS* 01/14/89 08:46:33 From: NEIL CHERRY To: STEVEN HARGUS (Rcvd) Subj: OOOPS WRONG PERSON. I think you may want to resend that message about chrge pumps to "Joseph Gradecki" he was the person I wrote my message about address area. NJC Msg#:12869 *PROJECTS* 01/15/89 00:46:07 From: STEVEN HARGUS To: NEIL CHERRY (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 12820 (OOOPS WRONG PERSON.) Sorry, I was just replying. Thanks! Msg#:12827 *PROJECTS* 01/14/89 13:00:04 From: ARNOLD BERKOWITZ To: ALL Subj: DBASE ON IMAGEWISE I have implemented an assembly language routine that allows imagewise PIC files to be accessed in conjunction with dBASE data records from within dBASE PRG programs. Anyone interested can write to me at1700 Sunny Crest Rd, Bonita, CA 92002 or call at (619) 421-8829 WED-FRI or lve msg here, but I don't check in that often. Msg#:12828 *PROJECTS* 01/14/89 13:05:37 From: ARNOLD BERKOWITZ To: JEFF BACHIOCHI (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 11977 (EPROM PROBLEM ON BCC-52) I seem to have correctly the EPROM programming problem, but inadequately. If I remove the 8255, I can now progam the EPROMS. APparently the 8255 is loading the bus in some way, although I'm using the LS343 to drive the low adress lines and a LS245 to drive the bidirectional data lines. 1k pullup resistors are attached to all bus lines and 0.1 uf caps are on all chips from vcc to gnd locally. Msg#:12980 *PROJECTS* 01/18/89 12:16:40 From: JEFF BACHIOCHI To: ARNOLD BERKOWITZ (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 12828 (EPROM PROBLEM ON BCC-52) Arnold, Check the *CS on the 8255 it should not go low at anytime during the programming process. Any transition would suggest an address decoding problem. 1K pullups are unnecessarily heavy, especially for a CMOS processor, 4.7K (even 10K) is OK. jeff Msg#:13455 *PROJECTS* 01/29/89 15:10:27 From: ARNOLD BERKOWITZ To: JEFF BACHIOCHI (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 12980 (EPROM PROBLEM ON BCC-52) I think I've found one of my problems. Apparently the Vcc was 5.2 volts instead of 5.0V. I corrected that which seems to improve reliability greatly. I can now program any full erased EPROM, but only when the 8255 is removed. When it is in, I can't even get the CPU to autobaud, must remove the EPROM, hit space bar, and re-insert the EPROM to proceed ! (By the way how did Intel design the 8052 so that you could change EPROMs while the system is live without sending the CPU into oblivion? I'll check the pullup resistors as you mentioned. Msg#:13495 *PROJECTS* 01/30/89 13:00:57 From: JEFF BACHIOCHI To: ARNOLD BERKOWITZ Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 13455 (EPROM PROBLEM ON BCC-52) Arnold, If you are executing from the EPROM the CPU will go off the deep end when you remove it! Otherwise, it is not selected and in a HIGH-Z state! jeff Msg#:12873 *PROJECTS* 01/15/89 07:13:47 From: FRANK BULLOCK To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: HCS01 Steve, The absence of your article from the last issue of BYTE was conspicuous. Recently, my subscription to BYTE was motivated in part to your articles. I will not renew when this subscription expires unless a metamorphosis occurs. . I heard or read, cannot remember which or where, that the HOME RUN Control System is out of production. Is this true? If true, have you designed or are you designing a more sophisticated system as replacement? If MICROMINT is still markets the complete unit (HCS01), I am ready to purchase a system. The X-10 Powerhouse control systems, which I am using now, lack the sophistication of the HCS01. . I have all six issues of your new magazine. I congratulate you and the entire support team for being sensitive to the desires of a small segment of the market. CIRCUIT CELLAR Ink is unique among the hoard of publication I see. THANKS!! My subscription has been renewed. Msg#:12907 *PROJECTS* 01/16/89 14:58:23 From: STEVE CIARCIA To: FRANK BULLOCK (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 12873 (HCS01) Glad you like CC INK. It will only get bigger and better as long as we have supporters like yourself. Regarding the HCS01, technically it is out of production eventhough there are many boards (assembled) still on the shelves. The transformer (with biult in X-10 transmitter) is no longer available and it is the only one that mates (custom designed) with the HCS01. Leo Taylor was sucessful in taking an off-the-shelf power supply (+5, +/- 12V) and a PL513 X-10 transmitter module and making an HCS01 work but it is too much of a kludge for a production fix. If you want to risk it it might be possible. Regarding HCS2, it is in the works from two directions but it will be a more generic process control system and not just a home controller (you can probably interpret that as considerably more expensive). It will be a few more months before anything firm. --Steve Msg#:14048 *PROJECTS* 02/11/89 11:40:43 From: FRANK BULLOCK To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 12907 (HCS01) Thanks for prompt response to my inquiry about the status of HCS01 and progress on the new system. I interpret your response as a guide to wait for HCS02 which is under development. The new unit will use a universal power supply which should be readily available in the market place and not dependent upon a single supply source. I understand the new unit (HCS2) may be more expensive than the HCS01. I will take a chance by waiting for production of HCS2 with hope that it will have enough advanced features to justify the increased cost, availability of parts and service, and justify the time delay (can only be justified if I don't experience a fire or burglary). My guess is the new unit will be a feature article in CC, Ink. I hope the HCS2 unit gets priority in your development schedule. />/> fdb <\<\ Msg#:12986 *PROJECTS* 01/18/89 14:01:01 From: JOEY PARKER To: ED NISLEY (Rcvd) Subj: IMAGEWISE/PC I have just re-read the Part 1 article of the Imagewise/PC project and I have a couple of questions that just can't wait til the next issue. 1) What is the "comparator circuit" that is used in the video overlay? 2) What "buffer amplifier" is used to drive the overlay output? I posted a question earlier today about B/W overlay on NTSC video, and I think your article may have answered my questions. Thanks for your help! Msg#:13004 *PROJECTS* 01/19/89 08:38:33 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: JOEY PARKER (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 12986 (IMAGEWISE/PC) The comparator circuit for the overlay is an LM311 comparator with one input coming from the overlay signal (either analog or digital) and the other coming from a DAC output which is set under program control. Whenever the overlay level is brighter than the reference level, it becomes transparent and lets the underlying video (either analog or digital) show through. The overlay output goes through a two-transistor circuit made up of a 2N2907 and a 2N4401. Issue 7 should start mailing in the next two weeks, and a complete schematic is published in it. Msg#:12997 *PROJECTS* 01/18/89 23:57:27 From: JIM NELSON To: STEVEN HIRSCH Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 11989 (NEW CHIP FOR AV/MUX) Well, dc restoration wouldn't be that important in simply scanning security cameras. It does seem to limit charge injected into those cmos crosspoint switches when switching, which translates to less noise. . In security work, frame synchronization matters most when you're feeding the video through the switcher into a vcr that's being used to record time mul- tiplexed single frames from individual cameras. This is a pretty common use of matrix switches. Although the roll created when crash switching unsynchronized cameras to a monitor is pretty grating, it's not as bad as trying to view tape recorded from such an unstable source, or trying to view individual video frames recorded from randomly switched source fields. . I am always looking for consulting work in this field, so if you need any help give me a call at (313) 482-0656. -- Jim Msg#:13069 *PROJECTS* 01/20/89 18:19:06 From: BLAIR M. BURTAN To: ALL Subj: IR SENSING & AMIGA Greetings fellow hackers, I'm a graduate student at B.U taking a course in Advanced microprocessor design. I'm attempting to build a project that will employ a radio controlled helium blimp. I need some proximity sensors mounted on the blimp that wil be able to detect a wall or other object. The catch is that the sensors must be light-weight (a few ounces at most) and low cost. That rules out the Polaroid transducers. I'd really like some IR sensors but from reading past message it seems difficult. The sensors should provide a TTL compatible output that will trigger a microcontroller to change the dirrectional controls of the blimp. So, after all that, any suggestions from the floor? Also, I'm an avid Amiga user. I have used the Amiga with the Circuit Cellar Ultrasonic ranging project with great success. The Amiga parallel port has 13 individual I/O bits that can be controlled in a C program. I modified the original scanner to include a second axis of motion and interpretted the distance value as a color value. The result is a rudimentary robotic vision system. The implications for other projects are great. Thanks for any comments. Msg#:13121 *PROJECTS* 01/21/89 18:40:07 From: KYL To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: RS-232 BREAKOUT BOX Steve - I have built your RS-232 Breakout Box according to the schematic on page 41 of the April 1983 Byte. However it is not working properly. I am using the ICL7660 as a voltage inverter and it seems to working fine. With no load, the 7660 tests as follows: Pin Voltage Mnenomic Connection 1 0.00 Unkown None 2 2.74 C1 10uF,50V Pos. 3 0.00 Gnd Cap. Pin 5 Pos., Power Supply Ground 4 -2.74 C2 Above Cap. Neg. 5 -5.48 Vout 10uF,50V Neg. 6 1.41 Unknown None 7 2.02 Unknown None 8 5.53 Vin 5 volt power supply NOTE: All measurements made with an inexpensive digital VOM, with respect to power supply ground, unless other wise noted. As can be seen, the voltage inverter appears fine. With one Op Amp (LM324, Pins 1,2 and 3) connected as shown on page 41, upon power up the indicater LED is either red or green (apparently at random), but never off. The circuit seems to work in that touching the input with 5 and -5 volts causes the LED to change color. However, the voltage supplied by the 7660 drops with the Op Amp installed. With the green LED lit, it is about -3.63 V and with the red LED lit it is about -2.45 V. I would appreciate any suggestions concering one, the negative voltage drop, and the fact that the LEDs are on without an input signal and with an input signal of 0.00 V (Gnd). Thanks, Kyl Scott 515-294-4381 Msg#:13258 *PROJECTS* 01/25/89 01:48:18 From: KYL SCOTT To: KEN DAVIDSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 13172 (RS-232 BREAKOUT BOX) Hmmmm... If it is at all possible please read (borrow, steal...) the original article april 83 BYTE. What you have described does not sound familiar at all. For each Op Amp section, the connections given are: 33 K Ohm resister from pin 1 to pin 3, 100 K Ohms from signal input to pin 3, 200 K Ohms from pin 2 to pin 1, 100 K Ohms from pin 2 to ground and the whole package run at +5 and -5 volts. Also pin 1 to an out put LED (in my case a red and green cathode to anode and vice versa). Thanks much for your help. Kyl Msg#:13269 *PROJECTS* 01/25/89 08:57:00 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: KYL SCOTT (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 13258 (RS-232 BREAKOUT BOX) It would have been helpful if you'd cited the exact figure number in your first message. Then I wouldn't have had to guess. I assume now you're talking about figure 4b. The diagram in the book is quite a bit different from that published in the magazine, so take my word for how it should be hooked up. It's not just a simple pin number typo. The input signal goes through a 100k resistor to the positive input on the 324. The positive input also has a 100k resistor to ground. The 324 output has a 33k resistor back to the negative input. The negative input also has a 220k resistor to ground. The output then goes to the two-color LED. Msg#:13340 *PROJECTS* 01/27/89 00:29:06 From: KYL SCOTT To: KEN DAVIDSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 13269 (RS-232 BREAKOUT BOX) thanks, I'll give it a shot. Kyl Msg#:13260 *PROJECTS* 01/25/89 01:53:28 From: KYL SCOTT To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 13149 (RS-232 BREAKOUT BOX) Thanks much. I looked on wed 25 jan 1:45a and didn't see anything, I try again on friday. I'm just a poor EE&CPR E student (Iowa State) and can't afford the book (I check out the BYTEs from the Library). If you want to donate a set to science I'd be willing... otherwise, any corrections for the IC tester (my next project)? Have a nice day! Kyl Msg#:13165 *PROJECTS* 01/23/89 03:47:13 From: LES DOMBOROCZKY To: ALL Subj: DDT-51 Dear CCI, Ever since seeing the DDT-51 article, I can't seem to get enough of working with the 8031 system. I put the board together with no problems and was quite impressed with the ease. Thanx for the superb documentation which cleared up some of the gray areas. Now that it is time to press on beyond the blinking LED, I am faced with somewhat a problem, much as I suppose everyone else out there has, that doesn't own the Avocet Macro Assembler. Ed wasn't kidding when he talked about the work involved in modifying Kernel to work with the PseudoSam assembler. I have seen numerous calls to the public to modify the code so it will assemble with the Pseudo-Sam, but after looking on the B-Board, it seems no one has done it yet. Before I begin such a monumentous task, I want to make sure I am not duplicating someone else's efforts. Now that the hardware is seemingly done for the moment, I can't help but feel disappointed because now I can't go further until I play programmer for awhile, rewriting code that has been written once already, but is no longer applicable. No matter how you look at it, if you don't own the Avocet Assembler, you won't be able to get beyond the blinking LED without a major software rewrite. When you said "insert your code here" in the listing, I think you over-simplified things a mite. Maybe when a few more folks start getting their development systems on-line we'll start seeing a standardization on the tools we use in development. (Remember that you are dealing with an experimenter/hobbyist forum as opposed to General Dynamics, Grumman, etc.) Most of us aren't really sure this is the chip to solve our problems or quench our curiousity. I think putting that high a price tag on our inquisitiveness is stretching things a bit. I don't want you guys to think I just called to rag on you. I am impressed with the quality of everything you have done, be it the "Ink" to Steve's CC. You provide a valuable service to the aspiring amateur. In my case, you fuel a fire to learn more and do more with the technology coming out today. In case I haven't said it already though, thank you for the DDT-51. I realize it took alot of work, but I think that the people the system was introduced to, will do more to promote it than any other ad campaign ever could. Long live the '51. Thanx again, Les Domboroczky Msg#:13185 *PROJECTS* 01/23/89 10:31:43 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: LES DOMBOROCZKY Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 13165 (DDT-51) Before you get all bent out of shape, there has been a version of the DDT-51 software written for the PseudoSam assembler available here on the BBS for at least the last three months. In fact, two different people undertook the task and uploaded the results here unprompted. I was forced to decide between the two for posting. If you've found the KERNEL and DEBUG31 files, just look there again and the PseudoSam versions are a few lines down. No matter what assembler or compiler is used for development, there is going to be someone who doesn't own it and complains about having to convert the software. If Ed had done the original software for the PseudoSam assembler, we probably would have been flooded with complaints that the format was strange and it didn't work with the Avocet assembler. If you hadn't noticed, the PseudoSam way of doing things is closer to the Unix world than the micro world, so many people aren't used to it. You call for a standardization of tools. We've done that: the Avocet assembler. The fact that it isn't the cheapest on the market is only one issue. It's clean, fast, and solid. When doing serious code development, those factors far outweigh the initial cost of the tool. Msg#:13280 *PROJECTS* 01/25/89 17:37:34 From: ED NISLEY To: LES DOMBOROCZKY Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 13165 (DDT-51) Yeah, I guess that line did oversimplify things a little bit... Although I can't recommend it as a Thing to Do, I have worked with micros at the level of hand-assembling the code from scrawls on a page into raw hex. It gets a little tiresome, but it can be done; the 8051 instruction set is easy enough to memorize that you'd probably have it down pat in a few days. What you'd do there is take the HEX files for the Kernel code and load those as one block, then stuff your code into the cracks. Depending on what you've got on your PC you might want to write a program that ate ASCII text (your hex as entered with a text editor) and spat out Intel HEX files (with all the addresses and checksums). Straightforward but tedious (I just did a binary to hex converter for another project... it was easier to write it than to figure out where I'd seen the last one) The real reason I use the Avocet stuff is that I tried some of their competition (buying it with real money) and single-handedly ran it through three subrevisions in two weeks. Scrapped that sucker right out; I can't afford a tool like that. Anyway, thanks for the kind words. We do appreciate the fact that you really can't afford to buy one each of every tool! Msg#:13194 *PROJECTS* 01/23/89 15:27:19 From: DAVID BESCOVI To: KEN DAVIDSON (Rcvd) Subj: BCC180 ROM MONITOR KEN, IS THE SOURCE LISTING FOR THE BCC180 CONTROLERS MONITOR ROM AVAILABLE FOR DOWNLOADING? I HAVE DEVELOPED A CONTROLER SIMILAR TO THIS ONE AND WOULD LIKE TO USE THE CODE AS A STARTING POINT FOR A MONITOR BASED AROUND MY HARDWARE (I STILL USE THE HD64180UP). Reply has been deleted Msg#:13211 *PROJECTS* 01/23/89 21:58:13 From: TERRY YINGLING To: JEFF BACHIOCHI (Rcvd) Subj: EPROM PROGRAMMER I can not find a source for the L1 coil (Miller #5506). Could you tell me what the current capacity for the coil is so I can find a sub for it. Also I saw a message that said there was a version 2 of the rom. I just got my partial kit in the mail and it had a version 1.6. What's the correct version. If it's 2 how come 1.6 was shipped? Thanks. Msg#:13218 *PROJECTS* 01/24/89 02:37:52 From: PHILIP BIEHL To: ED NISLEY (Rcvd) Subj: USING DD51 WITH AN 8751 Hi I'd like to build a system using an 8751 with no external ram or eprom and was wondering if dd51 will work asis in this environment. I realize that I'll need to use a 8031 to use dd51 but will the hex file be useable for the 8751? Do I need to make any hardware or software changes to accomodate this? I do have a prom programmer that can handle the 8751. Any hints appreciated. Msg#:13279 *PROJECTS* 01/25/89 17:20:04 From: ED NISLEY To: PHILIP BIEHL (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 13218 (USING DD51 WITH AN 8751) I think you can get away with doing what you want... Basically, the DDT51 code lives up around 8000 with a few links down in the lower addresses. Once you get the code running you can excise those links and it ought to work just fine. There will be some restrictions on using the I/O pins, of course, because the 8751 has more available than the 8031 (two whole bytes plus a few controls), but you can probably code up some "fake" routines that get the I/O some other way. Could be tricky! As with any off the top of the head advice, this is probably worth every cent you paid for it... keep in touch and don't be surprised at anything. Msg#:13244 *PROJECTS* 01/24/89 16:05:04 From: TOM FOWLE To: ALL Subj: DDT51-CPM would like to run ddt51 on a weird cp/m machine, can provide parallel port and do low level assembly proging. has anybody worked on this? Msg#:13245 *PROJECTS* 01/24/89 16:08:12 From: TOM FOWLE To: SYSOP (Rcvd) Subj: SEP2.0? we understood that vers 2.0 of the sep software was on the board but in our newness to calling across the country can't find anything but 1.6. are we nuts? yes but! Msg#:13246 *PROJECTS* 01/24/89 16:16:33 From: JEFF BACHIOCHI To: TOM FOWLE (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 13245 (SEP2.0?) Tom, This BBS has the latest release in production software for the SEP and that is version 1.6. Version 2.0 which goes beyond the scope of the initial project is not free and can not be found on the BBS. jeff Msg#:13254 *PROJECTS* 01/24/89 21:37:28 From: BILL CLODGO To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: NO HARDWARE IN BYTE IT WOULD APPEAR THAT THE NEW BYTE MANAGEMENT HAS A BLIND EYE. WE LIVE IN A HARDWARE CONTROLED ENVIROMENT, AND A LOT OF US WANT TO UNDERSTAND IT. YOU STEVE, HAVE BROUGHT UNDERSTANDING TO US WITH YOUR HARDWARE CONSTRUCTION ARTICLES!!!! PLEASE KEEP IT UP. Msg#:13344 *PROJECTS* 01/27/89 03:21:53 From: DAVID MACDONALD To: ED NISLEY (Rcvd) Subj: DDT-51 My board tests out OK up to procedure Bus3 (data to/from 8031). At line 162 of Bus.tst, *xrd gets turned off again by SetCR(AccessOK,ON)! Turning accessOK off in line 159 has no effect. The result is that I get two errors (lines 173 and 194). The only thing I can think of is that the clock pulse to the control register is somehow affecting the system register. Has anyone else had this problem, or is it a singular testament to my wire-wrapping skills? Can you recommend a solution? Thanks. Msg#:13390 *PROJECTS* 01/28/89 02:41:54 From: JAMES J. HILL To: ED NISLEY (Rcvd) Subj: MANDELBROT Howdy...I am an amateur at computing, but I have done well so far. I was fascinated by your articles on the Mandelbrot engine and more so by the idea that I may get to look at the set on my PC. I have all the basics: a true blue original IBM- AT (6mhz) with a true blue IBM EGA card (full of memory) and IBM EGA monitor. I do use a monochrome screen as my primary and the EGA as secondary screen, but that has given me no other problems. What IS the problem? I fire up driver.exe with DRIVER -fake:1 (or 2 or 3), I get a lot of pretty announcements as to what is going on coming up off the bottom of the screen, and it takes quite a few minutes before I get a 'completed' message. (Forgot to say I have an 80387 on board). Where is my mandelbrot image? I ha ve the feeling I am leaving something very elementary out of my procedures. Msg#:13922 *PROJECTS* 02/08/89 22:05:39 From: ED NISLEY To: JAMES J. HILL Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 13390 (MANDELBROT) Hoo, boy... By "secondary" do you mean that the DOS prompt shows up on the monochrome display? If so, the EGA is set up to emulate a color monitor and none of the BIOS calls will work right. On the other hand, you wouldn't have gotten that far if the BIOS routines weren't working because the characters get written via the BIOS. Oddly enough, I did most of the code on a stock IBM AT goosed to 8 MHz, with an IBM MDA as the secondary display (great for debugging) and an IBM EGA as the primary display. The code was tweaked to run on my PS/2 80 with a VGA and the CCAT with some clone card... but that's it. If you start it up as DRIVER -? (or some such) you'll get a dump of what it thinks the options are. Try setting the mode (-mode:..) to d (that's dog hex, meaning 13 decimal) to see if it works in low res mode; check the options to make sure that I remember that correctly. If this sounds a little confused, it's because I haven't the foggiest idea what to do. Try making it the primary display, try a few other modes, and report back on what transpires. Msg#:13393 *PROJECTS* 01/28/89 07:53:05 From: BRAD SMALLRIDGE To: ALL Subj: DDT-51 I finally have a DDT-51 system working. I discovered a way to combine .OBJ files that shortens assembly time and saves disk space. I would like to share this method and get feedback. . I assemble PSKRNL, and copy the resulting PSKRNL.OBJ to K0.OBJ. This is an ASCII file. Using an editor, I took out the lines representing the the BlinkBit code. These are the 5th and 6th lines. I also took out the last line. This new file represents the essence of the kernel. . My new applications simply start with this: .org h'0050 SETB EA - new code - .end I assemble this and get a file called K2.OBJ for example. Then I type >COPY K0.OBJ+K2.OBJ K2.HEX and that creates a file that is all ready to go. . Everything works so far. One question I have is will it continue to work when my programs become more sophisticated? I'd appreciate your comments. Thanks, Brad Msg#:13924 *PROJECTS* 02/08/89 22:09:09 From: ED NISLEY To: BRAD SMALLRIDGE (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 13393 (DDT-51) It's generally a BAD idea to futz around with the OBJ files, because they may contain other stuff than the obvious code. If you ding the file format enough you'll wind up with files that seem to work, but don't quite come off with real diagnostics. A better idea would be to hack the KERNEL source into two chunks (top and bottom), then assemble those into two OBJ files, then link them together with your code. Make sure that the assembler and linker agree on getting the addresses right! Msg#:13395 *PROJECTS* 01/28/89 10:51:04 From: RANDY MERKEL To: MARK BALCH (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 10457 (680X AND 680X0 ASSEMBLERS) Howdy; I'm doing some work with the 6809, and I down-loaded the asxx assemblers from the Motorola BBS. The documentation for the assemblers makes references to "M4 or M6" - macro preprocessers but I can't find them on the FreeWare BBS. Do You know anything about them? Also; I'd like to find a outline of Motorola's S19 format and any good books on 6809 hardware/software. Thanks, Randy .... Msg#:13404 *PROJECTS* 01/28/89 13:26:08 From: MARK BALCH To: RANDY MERKEL (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 13395 (680X AND 680X0 ASSEMBLERS) Hi, it's nice to find someone so interested in the 6809 as I am. I am also a beginner though and can't help you with most of your questions. One thing though, I do have detauled info on Motorola's S19 format. Here it is: Motorola Hex Format: Data Record: Byte 1..2 "S1". Byte 3..4 Number of data bytes in this record. Byte 5..6 Load address, high bytes.' Byte 7..8 Load address, lo bytes. Byte 9..X Data bytes, two characters each (ie. FF, 3A, 20). Byte X+1..X+2 Checksum. Byte X+3..X+4 CR, LF. (Carriage Return, Line Feed) End Record: Byte 1..2 "S9". Byte 3..4 CR,LF. The byte count is 3 greater than the number of data bytes. The checksum is the one's complement of the 8-Bit sum, without carry, of the byte count, the two bytes of the load address, and the data bytes. ------------------ I copied that out of an EPROM programmer manual that supports Intel/Motorola Hex formats. That is all I know about Motorola format. As far aas the assembler goes, download AS9.EXE from this board. It is good once you learn to use it and is FREE! Bye, Mark Msg#:13465 *PROJECTS* 01/30/89 00:43:33 From: RANDY MERKEL To: MARK BALCH (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 13404 (680X AND 680X0 ASSEMBLERS) Thanks! Randy .... Msg#:13566 *PROJECTS* 01/31/89 23:02:26 From: MARK BALCH To: RANDY MERKEL (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 13465 (680X AND 680X0 ASSEMBLERS) Sure. I try to help out people who are in my position. I get most of my electronics information from free literature sent to me on request by Motorola, National Semiconductor, Texas Instruments and Rockwell. Intel isn't great in the free department, but those companies send so many data books to people who ask. In addition to the things that companies send me, I learn alot from this BBS, and alot from INK. Also magazines like BYTE have good information every so often. Good Luck! Bye, Mark Msg#:13438 *PROJECTS* 01/29/89 05:29:19 From: MICHAEL MANDAP To: ALL Subj: DDT51 To anyone interested, TASM.ARC (available on this board) is a pretty good and cheap assembler. It works pretty good for me in conjunction with my DDT51. But please note there is a newer version of this assembler (NOT available on this board ---at least not yet) The newer version is twice as fast as the older version and is much smaller. Please see an earlier message that I submitted to find out where you can get it ( I guess you could do a selective scan using my name to find it,...I'm sorry I don't know the number of the message,...it's around 13170 or so) anyways give it a try if your needs aren't too great and you can't afford the AVOCET assembler (like me, on a student budget). By the way, this newer version that I'm talking about is dated 1987. Who knows, there may be a newer-newer version! Msg#:13454 *PROJECTS* 01/29/89 14:24:28 From: DAVID BERNAT To: ALL Subj: HAL While building my HAL-4 kit I managed to distroy one of my 0.1 uF Monolithic %5 capacitors. I can only seem to find %10 caps localy can anyone tell me of a source for these? thanks Msg#:13489 *PROJECTS* 01/30/89 10:42:10 From: STEVE CIARCIA To: DAVID BERNAT (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 13454 (HAL) Leave an Email message for me with your address (better remind me what it's for, too) and I'll send you a couple 5% caps. While others might be substituted, we know the ones we supply have been physically tested for 5% tolerance and fit the PC board correctly. --Steve Msg#:13466 *PROJECTS* 01/30/89 01:22:08 From: MIKE GONZALEZ To: JONATHAN LYNN (Rcvd) Subj: DDT51-C Jonathan, I hope can remember me, I left you a message about converting ddt51.pas into ddt51.c, well its done. Its written in Microsoft C but with a few minor changes it can be converted into Turbo-C. I think I might have to check with the authors of ddt51.pas before I can release it. So, let me know if you are still interested in the code. Mike Gonzalez Msg#:13492 *PROJECTS* 01/30/89 11:48:27 From: TOM CURDA To: MIKE GONZALEZ (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 13466 (DDT51-C) Mike, I would also be interested in the C version of the DDT51 code. I'm more familiar with C than Pascal, so that would work out much better. I don't think Ed Nisley, the author of the DDT51 code would have any objections; you might want to check with him about testing it's compatibility. Regards, --Tom Msg#:13541 *PROJECTS* 01/31/89 00:57:02 From: MIKE GONZALEZ To: TOM CURDA (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 13492 (DDT51-C) Tom, I'll leave a message to Ed Nisley. If there is no problem, then I will upload the code. Thanks for the interest. Mike Gonzalez ... Msg#:13552 *PROJECTS* 01/31/89 11:31:26 From: TOM CURDA To: MIKE GONZALEZ (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 13541 (DDT51-C) Thanks, Mike, I'll be looking for it. Regards, --Tom Msg#:13858 *PROJECTS* 02/07/89 11:34:49 From: JONATHAN LYNN To: TOM CURDA (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 13492 (DDT51-C) Mike, I'm still interested if you can upload it. Sorry that I didn't get back to you sooner, but I was away until today. Has the DDT-51 been working out for you? Mine's been working great on the project that I'm currently working on. Thanks, and I'll talk to you soon. -jon- Msg#:13514 *PROJECTS* 01/30/89 14:40:06 From: RAYMOND FRANCIS WENNINGER To: ANYONE Subj: IMAGEWISE DIGITIZER HELP!!!!!!!!!!!! I am looking for some software to run on my TI 99/4A or GENEVE 9640 computer in conjunction with the Imagewise digitizer. At present I am using a program by Steve Langguth and I am not very happy with the results. It might be because I am not setting up the digitizer right so help along that line would be welcome. Steve is no longer in the TI community so updates or improvements on this program are out of the question. I am not a programer myself so I have no idea on how to improve on the software myself even though I have the original source code. If any one can be of assistance to me I would be very appreciative. Ray P.S. My telephone number is:413-593-6951 Address: 111 Oakridge Street Chicopee MA 01020 Msg#:13517 *PROJECTS* 01/30/89 15:40:56 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: RAYMOND FRANCIS WENNINGER (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 13514 (IMAGEWISE DIGITIZER) How about uploading the TI software here so others can try it out? I have a TI at home that I haven't touched in years, but I might be willing to drag it out and see if I can make the program fly (assuming I can get it into the computer somehow). I'm also curious about where the program is currently posted and if there is other ImageWise stuff there. Msg#:13518 *PROJECTS* 01/30/89 15:59:35 From: RAYMOND FRANCIS WENNINGER To: KEN DAVIDSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 13517 (IMAGEWISE DIGITIZER) I WILL UP LOAD THE THREE PROGRAMS AND SOURCE CODE GRAB SHOW CONVERT Converts it into a TI Artist format Have fun... Msg#:13557 *PROJECTS* 01/31/89 17:25:35 From: ROBERT SCHULTZ To: SYSOP (Rcvd) Subj: 8051 USERS Hi, this is Bob Schultz calling from Kansas City, MO. I'm working on serveral 8051 based projects and I am looking for other persons who are familiar with the beast to share notes, etc.. with. Is there much 8051 action here? Thanks! Bob Msg#:13589 *PROJECTS* 02/01/89 09:01:41 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: ROBERT SCHULTZ Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 13557 (8051 USERS) I've moved your message to a public area where it's sure to get some responses. You can't have read many messages here, or you'd know there is tons of 8051 activity. Take some time to look back through the message base, then ask again. Msg#:13564 *PROJECTS* 01/31/89 22:14:38 From: MIKE ROTOLO To: ED NISLEY (Rcvd) Subj: MANDELBROT ENGINE STEVE, IWAS VERY INTERESTED IN YOU ARTICLES ON THE MANDELBROT ENGINE. FIXED POINT MATH SOUNDS GOOD, BUT I CAN'T FIGURE OUT HOW TO CONVERT AN ASCII DECIMAL STRING TO A FP NUMBER. (LET ME ADD THAT I AM NOT ATTEMPTING TO BUILD THE ENGINE DUE TO LACK OF $$). I'D LIKE TO USE FIXED POINT NUMBERS ON A REGULAR PC (ACTUALLY A TI 99/4A - YES, THERE ARE SOME OF US AROUND!) HOW ABOUT SOME HELP? THANKS Msg#:13926 *PROJECTS* 02/08/89 22:15:26 From: ED NISLEY To: MIKE ROTOLO (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 13564 (MANDELBROT ENGINE) What I did in the Mandelbrot Engine code was to avoid the whole problem by using the C library routines... The runtime routines handle getting ASCII values from the keyboard (and displaying them!). The internal format is a standard double-precision floating point number in IEEE format. I wrote a pair of routines that translate between IEEE numbers and the extended precision fixed point numbers in the Mandelbrot engine (including flipping the byte order!). You can probably pull off the same thing if you dope out how your floating point numbers are stored. I have no idea what the format is, but a few hours of fiddling around will pay off handsomely in avoiding all those horrible ASCII routines you'd have to duplicate. If you can figure out how to download the DRIVER source code, take a look in the MATH.C module (if I remember correctly) for the routines that do the deed. Msg#:13667 *PROJECTS* 02/02/89 22:40:05 From: TERRY YINGLING To: JEFF BACHIOCHI (Rcvd) Subj: EPROM PROGRAMMER Question on the Serial Eprom Programmer. Is it possible to modify the PC board I purchased for the project so that HM43256LP ram could be used vice the 4 6264s ? If so is it just a matter of connecting address lines properly ? Msg#:13692 *PROJECTS* 02/03/89 15:17:39 From: JEFF BACHIOCHI To: TERRY YINGLING (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 13667 (EPROM PROGRAMMER) Terry, Besides removing the +5v from RAM socket pins 26 & 1 and adding the A13 & 14 lines to them respectively, you must combine the chip selects CSA, CSB, CSC and CSD together. This would normally be done with a quad input AND gate. You could cheat, by dioding the four chip selects together. jeff Msg#:13745 *PROJECTS* 02/04/89 10:33:35 From: TERRY YINGLING To: JEFF BACHIOCHI (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 13692 (EPROM PROGRAMMER) Thanks again. I must say that your prompt replies are appreciated. I will try your method. Msg#:13677 *PROJECTS* 02/03/89 08:36:31 From: RICK OBER To: MARC DIAZ (Rcvd) Subj: OPTREX Marc, have not received the code you were sending, possibly didn't get my return message with address: Rick Ober, 12427 Lake LaDare, Baton Rouge, LA 70816. I sure could use the info now since I'm currently writing the code for the project. Thanks for the help. Msg#:13721 *PROJECTS* 02/04/89 01:13:24 From: MARC DIAZ To: RICK OBER (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 13677 (OPTREX) Rick Sorry for the delay ! I have been extremely busy lately, and have just not had a chance to polish up some loose ends in the documentation I was to send your way. I will put it in the mail this weekend. I hope it helps to make your project easier to complete. Happy computing ! Msg#:14643 *PROJECTS* 02/22/89 08:14:30 From: RICK OBER To: MARC DIAZ (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 13721 (OPTREX) Thanks again, Rick Msg#:13686 *PROJECTS* 02/03/89 10:33:39 From: DAVID K. MERRIMAN To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: SMARTSPOOLER Received my SS kit yesterday, as well as my first issue of CCInk. CCInk looks like a pretty darn good publication; and I am fairly well pleased with the kit. Have already put it together (sockets, discrete parts, etc); am waiting for my memory chips ($$$!!!!) before I "bolt" it all together. Have run a "smoke check" on it, though, and there don't appear to be any problems. Thanks for the quick response (once you got the order). <]Dave[> P.S.- need a pretty good general-purpose electronics tech? If you can design it, I can put it together (fabrication from "scratch"); or if you have the schematics, I can figure out what's wrong with it, and fix it. Msg#:13688 *PROJECTS* 02/03/89 10:46:00 From: STEVE CIARCIA To: DAVID K. MERRIMAN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 13686 (SMARTSPOOLER) It just so happens that we are interviewing for techs right now. Send your resume and we'll add it to the pile :-) --Steve Msg#:13851 *PROJECTS* 02/07/89 10:31:05 From: DAVID K. MERRIMAN To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 13688 (SMARTSPOOLER) "The (check)'s in the mail....." <]Dave[> Msg#:13701 *PROJECTS* 02/03/89 19:24:06 From: BOB STEINBEISER To: JEFF BACHIOCHI (Rcvd) Subj: BCC52 Jeff, I am using the BCC52 controllers, and have expanded BASIC-52 with a few of my own statements . I would like to be able to have the controller, at power up or reset, automatically run a BASIC program containing my new statements. I blast a BASIC program on a EPROM prepared with the PROG2 command, but when the controller comes up I get syntax errors as soon as BASIC encounters one of my new statements. Evidently the new statements are not added to the token list until BASIC enters the command mode. Is there a way around this? Thanks for your help! Bob Msg#:13823 *PROJECTS* 02/06/89 10:28:05 From: JEFF BACHIOCHI To: BOB STEINBEISER (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 13701 (BCC52) Bob, Make sure that when you PROG you have the extensions installed and acknowledged! If you remove the extensions and power-up, save a 1 line program "10 MOVC 0,1FFFH,4000H". Power-down and up. You get a error. Put the extensions in and power-up again. You get an error. Now with the extensions still in and recognized, save the same 1 line to a new EPROM. This time on power-up you will not get an error! When entered without the extensions in place the BASIC doesn't know how to save the unrecognized TOKEN! jeff Msg#:13863 *PROJECTS* 02/07/89 14:31:38 From: BOB STEINBEISER To: JEFF BACHIOCHI (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 13823 (BCC52) Jeff, Thanks for your reply. I'm still having problems with this. I am certain that my BASIC extensions are installed and acknowledged before I save the program to EPROM. Enclosed is some captured dialog with the BCC52. Is there something Im missing? Thanks - Bob *Enclosed File: capture Msg#:13905 *PROJECTS* 02/08/89 11:08:53 From: JEFF BACHIOCHI To: BOB STEINBEISER (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 13863 (BCC52) Bob, Looks good to me! You might try setting BIT 45 internal memory (register 25.5 see page 167 of the MCS BASIC manual) which indicates to BASIC that the EXTENSIONS are present. jeff Msg#:13762 *PROJECTS* 02/04/89 23:59:13 From: ROBERT A. SCHADER To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: MANDRELBOT ENGINE Steve, I have been reading your articles on the mandrelbot engine with great enthusiasm. I have an Amiga 500 with which I do a lot of ray tracing with some commercial programs available for the amiga. Basically, I was wondering if you think this might be a task suitable for a multiprocessor machine such as your mandrelbot engine and if you have any additional advice for using it as such. Would it be possible to built a multiprocessing computer from 68000's? I have the source code to a couple of public domain ray tracing programs native to the amiga and since I do not fully understand the algorithms of ray tracing, I thought that this would be the best way to start. Any suggestions you have would be greatly appreciated. Thank you. Bob Schader 3631 Colby S.W. Wyoming, MI 49509 P.S. I will check back here for replies. Msg#:13782 *PROJECTS* 02/05/89 13:26:04 From: STEVE CIARCIA To: ROBERT A. SCHADER Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 13762 (MANDRELBOT ENGINE) First of all, I suggest you search the message base here for other discussions on the Mandelbrot engine we've beat the "other uses" category into the ground. In a nut shell, if you can do itin 2K bytes of 8051 code, perhaps. Basically I think not, hovever. Go look around and you might be enlightened. --Steve Msg#:13927 *PROJECTS* 02/08/89 22:17:33 From: ED NISLEY To: ROBERT A. SCHADER Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 13762 (MANDRELBOT ENGINE) From what I know of ray tracing, every pel on the screen can interact with any object in the scene. So every pel processor has to know about everything, which isn't an auspicious beginning! As far as using 68000 processors, remember that each one will have a few support chips, some RAM, a little EPROM, and maybe some serial communications. Multiply that by 64 and you've got a pretty big bill! See why we used 8751s? Msg#:13784 *PROJECTS* 02/05/89 13:38:27 From: NEIL SARGENT To: KEN DAVIDSON (Rcvd) Subj: IMAGEWISE DIGITIZER The IMAGEWISE DIGITIZER in conjunction with CARETS (tm) OCR software should permit capture of info (news, stock quotes, etc.) from Cable TV specialty channels. Unfortunately my 'scope shows the 145406 chip in my D/T kit seems unable to recognize and convert to TTL levels the RS232 control signals it receives from my XT. Does anybody else have this problem or have any quick fix suggestions? The 145406 works fine on DC signals. The serial port in the XT uses a 1488 chip (driven by an 8250?) and works fine with my SMARTEAM MODEM. I'd appreciate any ideas. Msg#:13817 *PROJECTS* 02/06/89 09:05:39 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: NEIL SARGENT (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 13784 (IMAGEWISE DIGITIZER) All I can suggest is that you perhaps have a bad MC145406 chip. The chip is a replacement for a 1488/1489 pair, and is completely compatible with RS-232. Give CCI a call and explain your problem. Msg#:13806 *PROJECTS* 02/06/89 02:20:18 From: CALVIN GRIER To: STEVE SHAFFER Subj: IMAGEWISE PROGRAMMING WANTED. STEVE, I'm replying to your message of Feb. 1988 kind of late but I just started to use this BBS. I wish I had read that message 9 months ago when our company was in the market for a digitzer and software to go with it. We are interested in using a digitizer to analyze spatial and intensity relations between spots on a RHEED image from a Varian MBE-GEN II. The software and hardware combination we ended up getting were not quite what we expected. I would be interested in hearing what arragement you finally came up with and whether it met up with your expectations. Please leave me a message here or mail it to: Calvin Grier, GTRI, EML/PSD, Atlanta, GA 30332. Msg#:13822 *PROJECTS* 02/06/89 09:49:34 From: STEVE CIARCIA To: CALVIN GRIER Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 13806 (IMAGEWISE PROGRAMMING WANTED.) Maybe you should take a look at the new ImageWise/PC digitizer currently documented in CC INK. --Steve Msg#:13809 *PROJECTS* 02/06/89 03:41:53 From: BRAD SMALLRIDGE To: ED NISLEY (Rcvd) Subj: DDT-51 Help. Having problems burning the EPROM on the DDT-51. I'm using a minimal target sytem as suggested by the Circuit Cellar Ink. What are the final connections for IC7 pins 22 and 27. Are the optional connections in Ink the ones I should be using. Somebody else on this board said *PS is the only thin that works. The Eprom I'm burning seems to read all 0's. It also seems too hot. Another problem I am having is with the Break points. I can break the program but then the disassembly window seems to be off. Has anybody else had that problem? Replies welcome from people actually burning Eprom chips on the DDT-51 would be most welcome even if to say that it zzrvactually can work. Thanks. d{3d$ BRAD Msg#:13929 *PROJECTS* 02/08/89 22:27:03 From: ED NISLEY To: BRAD SMALLRIDGE (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 13809 (DDT-51) This is a little embarrassing, but we're in the process of moving and I just packed the copy of the schematics in a box UNDER all the Bytes... How about this: Ken put together a list of the Official Changes to the schematic and tucked it into the project files. If you download that you'll get the right info. It does work, so I suspect that you're getting caught by a schematic bug. As far as the debug problem goes, you may have another problem in the wiring; don't rule out crosstalk in the cables. Msg#:13930 *PROJECTS* 02/08/89 22:30:39 From: ED NISLEY To: ALL Subj: PAL AND SECAM VIDEO Anybody out there have either a PAL or SECAM camera they'd like to loan to a good cause? I've got the ImageWise/PC firmware running with NTSC, PAL, and SECAM video taken right from the book, but that doesn't mean that it'll really work with genuine hardware. Unfortunately, I haven't been able to track down a "foreign" camera to check things out. Basically, I'd like to borrow it for a while to make sure that the code works. If you've got a camera that you can do without for a while, drop me a note... Thanks! Msg#:13980 *PROJECTS* 02/09/89 18:27:35 From: WAYNE LEANZA To: ALL Subj: DDT-51 UNBELIEVABLE Incredible though it sounds I've found a way to get my ddt-51 to work (sort of). After trying shorter cables and different ground configurations until I was blue in the face. I finally got the kernel to load correctly every time (not most of the time). I was still getting the 8031 did not halt in time message but at least it was consistent. I found that re- moving one line from the dumpRAM assembly language routine sort of fixed the problem. I essentially deactivated the internal 128 byte transfer routine by removing the MOVX @DPTR,A instruction from the cloop loop. I know that now I can't see internal RAM but the rest of the stuff works . This all makes no sense to me as the 8031 (8032 actually) is apparently able to access debug ram to run the rest of the interrupt routine and reset setup routine also it will correctly single step when I press f10 (with the modified program in place). It seems to me that the first 128 bytes of internal ram in the 8032 is accessed the same as the first 128 bytes of internal ram in the 8031. I know the extra 128 bytes in the 8032 can only be indirectly accessed but why should that matter. HELP !!!!! I am going crazy !!! and I may throw out all my electronic stuff which would be a terrible shame. Wayne Msg#:14006 *PROJECTS* 02/10/89 09:54:22 From: JONATHAN LYNN To: WAYNE LEANZA (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 13980 (DDT-51 UNBELIEVABLE) Wayne, I built the DDT-51 some time ago, and eventually got it to work. I also had some problem with the did not halt in time message. I don't remember exactly what it had to do with, but did you DDT pass all the TESTER routines? I thing the problem may have been related to the fact that the 8031 target system wasn't fully decoding the address space, and overlaped into the address space of the DDT (ie 8000-??). Make sure the Target system is tied to the lower addresses only. Let me know how its going. I hope this message is of help to you. Jon. Msg#:14715 *PROJECTS* 02/23/89 09:37:50 From: ED NISLEY To: WAYNE LEANZA Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 13980 (DDT-51 UNBELIEVABLE) Ah Ha! More information! The loop that transfers information from the Internal RAM (inside the 8031) to the external Debug RAM (on the DDT-51 card) is hammering the data lines at a fast & furious pace. What you're seeing is something that collides with that transfer, something that may work when only a single byte (perhaps with a particular data pattern) gets transferred. It's either noise, an addressing conflict, or a driver problem. If you've done a good job on the cable, then look for other problems: what other devices in your system can be activated when the processor reads or writes the Debug RAM? Can another driver get turned on for the reads or writes? Is still another one stuck on, so that you have THREE drivers active at once? Do the schematics of your address decoders match the actual hardware? One of the nice things about programmable hardware is that a little creative coding can go a long way toward isolating the problems. You should try these test cases... Write up a simple 8031 program that reads every address in the range, burn it into EPROM, and run it while scoping the address decodes. Do the same thing with writes. Write up a test program that reads and writes one byte from Debug RAM and scope the control lines; write up a PC program that sets the control lines from the PC side to check out the interactions there. Build a pair of programs that collaborate in swapping a byte back and forth; expand them to swap a block of data. Sound like a lot of work? That's what I went through when we were getting the original DDT-51 running. And we didn't even know that the thing was SUPPOSED to work! A Rule of Thumb I learned a long time ago (the hard way) is that you cannot say "This gizmo is working perfectly, except for this little problem here and that little problem there." Those "little problems" are the symptoms of a major screwup waiting to bite you in the ass. The Walt Disney method of debugging (If You Wish Hard Enough, It Will Come True) does NOT produce worthwhile results... Have at it! And, now that I read the replies to your message, I see that you're on the air. Congratulations and felicitations, welcome to the club, etc, etc! Isn't it one of the best feelings in the world when something FINALLY works right? (Well, it's in the top 10, for sure...) Msg#:14030 *PROJECTS* 02/11/89 00:35:25 From: ROY GENSCH To: ALL Subj: BCC52 HAS ANYONE HAD ANY PROBLEMS WITH THE BCC52 NOT AUTO STARTING? USING PROG2 AND PROG, THE SYMPTOMS ARE NO AUTOSTART, AND A LIST COMMAND ACTS AS IF NO PROGRAM IS PRESENT. i HAVE TWO BOARDS THAT DO THIS, AND ONE BOARD THAT WORKS ALL THE TIME WITH THE SAME EPROM. I HAVE CHECKED FOR CRACKS IN THE EPROM ENABLE TRACES ETC. ANY SUGGESTIONS? Msg#:14064 *PROJECTS* 02/12/89 00:10:26 From: FRANK KUECHMANN To: ROY GENSCH (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 14030 (BCC52) Does the BCC-52 work OK connected with a terminal? That is, when you send it a space character, does it get the data rate properly and sign on? If not, you might try checking the +5 volt supply voltage with the BCC-52 operating. I had one that wouldn't start up properly, and the supply voltage measured with the system operating was down under 2 volts. After about 5 minutes, it'd pop up to 5 volts where it should've been all along. The power supply was good -- the problem was a bad 10uF bypass/filter cap on the +5 supply on the BCC-52 [there are two of them]. So, if the symptoms match, check out the 10uF caps. Msg#:14090 *PROJECTS* 02/13/89 08:06:28 From: JEFF BACHIOCHI To: ROY GENSCH (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 14030 (BCC52) Roy, I'll assume your 5 volts is OK! First thing I would look for is the AUTOSTART designation @ 8000H. This byte should be 32H for a PROG2. 8001H & 8002H should hold RCAP2H & RCAP2L for the BAUD RATE. Does the program run from the command mode? 8010H should hold a 55H signifing the start of a ROM'ed BASIC program. The following bytes contain the program exactly as it was in RAM. Even though BASIC programs can be stacked within the same EPROM, only the first will execute on POWER-UP! jeff Msg#:14432 *PROJECTS* 02/18/89 23:06:14 From: ROY GENSCH To: JEFF BACHIOCHI (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 14090 (BCC52) PROGRAM IS PROG1. EPROM IS OK AS IT WORKS IN TWO OTHER BCC52'S.I THINK I SHOULD RESTATE THE SYMPTOMS. THE TWO BOARDS I HAVE THAT ACT FUNNY WILL SOMETIMES AUTOSTART AND SOMETIMES NOT. WHEN THEY AUTOSTART PROG RUNS JUST FINE.WHEN THEY DON'T AUTOSTART,THE SYSTEM ACTS AS IF NO PROM IS PRESENT.THE LIST COMMAND PRODUCES NOTHING - NO LINES OF PROGRAM.WHEN AN ATT EMPT IS MADE TO GO TO "ROM", THE "ERROR PROM MODE" MESSAGE COMES UP.i SUSPECT THE BCC52 SYSTEM DOESN'T KNOW THE PROM IS PRESENT.THIS WOULD EXPLAIN WHY THERE IS NO AUTOBOOT AND WHY THE LIST COMMAND WON'T LIST THE PROG1 PROGRAM.COULD SOMETHING (LIKE A BOARD TRACE) IN THE LS138 DECODER AREA BE CAUSING THIS? IS THERE A SPEC ON THE RESET RISETIME OF THE 8052 THAT WOULD CAUSE THE CHIP TO WAKE UP FUNNY (LIKE ME ON SOME MORNINGS) ? APPRECIATE ANY SUGGESTIONS YOU HAVE. Msg#:14433 *PROJECTS* 02/18/89 23:11:24 From: ROY GENSCH To: FRANK KUECHMANN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 14064 (BCC52) THANKS FOR THE SUGGESTION. MY 5 VOLTS IS FINE AND THE TERMINAL ALSO WORKS FINE.SEE MESSAGE TO JEFF FOR A MORE DETAILED LIST OF SYMPTOMS IF YOU CARE TO FOLLOW THIS THING TO THE BITTER END. Msg#:14509 *PROJECTS* 02/20/89 14:08:42 From: STEVE CIARCIA To: ROY GENSCH (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 14432 (BCC52) Jeff is really the authority but I suspect flaky EPROMs. We've run across a couple trash brands which we now avoid (which ones I don't personally remember). You could look there. --Steve Msg#:14576 *PROJECTS* 02/21/89 08:15:38 From: JEFF BACHIOCHI To: ROY GENSCH (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 14432 (BCC52) Roy, The fact that it works sometimes is the killer, but also a sign of life! More than once I've been fooled by a flakey ZIF socket. Try a bit of pressure on the EPROM (in various directions) while resetting the board. The BCC52 family now comes with a standard double wipe IC socket at this location making it possible to easily replace the ZIF socket or remove it entirely after the program is finished. If the socket is not the problem.. When autostart fails has the processor found all the RAM? Can it find the extensions (ROMA&B) assuming you have them? Can it xfer the program to RAM? jeff Msg#:14119 *PROJECTS* 02/13/89 18:58:59 From: JOE SYZDEK To: ALL Subj: IMAGEWISE TO GIF Does anyone have assembly source code for an Imagewise file to GIF converter? I know I'll have to translate it to TMS9995 code, so 8088 (IBM-PC) code would be desirable since I am familiar with that. I see there is a utility in the file area, but I don't think there is source included, also I can't do anything with PC .ARC files. Msg#:14187 *PROJECTS* 02/14/89 22:57:56 From: DANNY STONE To: SYSOP (Rcvd) Subj: SERIAL PROGRAMMER (OCT 86 BYTE) Is the PC Board ONLY available from CCI (I have the rest...) If so, how can I get one? PS - GREAT BOARD! D. Msg#:14209 *PROJECTS* 02/15/89 08:40:07 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: DANNY STONE (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 14187 (SERIAL PROGRAMMER (OCT 86 BYTE)) Bare PC boards are never available for any project from any source. Micromint sells just assembled units in cases. CCI sells both a full kit and an experimenters kit. The experimenters kit contains the PC board plus most of the key, hard-to-find parts. Msg#:14298 *PROJECTS* 02/16/89 17:30:59 From: WAYNE LEANZA To: ED NISLEY (Rcvd) Subj: DDT-51 NOW WORKS ed; Thanks for your message I also got a message from Jon Lynn and his guess was right on (see my message to him right before this). Image memory locations at $8000 with the target system I am using created the problem. I bet there are other target systems out there with the same problem. The target system was addressing on board ram at the same time it thought it was addressing only the debug ram $8000. I also modified the debug31 software to display the extra 128 bytes of internal ram for the 8032 . I simply added an extra loop to the pskrnl.asm assembly routine to move the 8032's extra bytes to debug ram $878o thru $87FF reassembled and also had to add an extra bit of code to the PASCAL Dumpram procedure (I think it's in sysctrls.p) to display the extra data. Removing some blank lines from the pascal display routine prevents scrolling off the top of the 'system halted at step' message. There's probably a slicker way to do it but I didn't want to mess with changing the locations you use in the area $807F thru $80FF Bye Wayne Msg#:14384 *PROJECTS* 02/17/89 23:42:29 From: RICHARD BERESNIEWICZ To: ALL Subj: MC145406 RS-232 LEVEL SHIFTER I'm hoping someone can help locate a supplier for MC145406 level shifter or a crossreferance for this IC. Thank you RLB Msg#:14414 *PROJECTS* 02/18/89 14:11:23 From: STEVE CIARCIA To: RICHARD BERESNIEWICZ (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 14384 (MC145406 RS-232 LEVEL SHIF) Check Jameco or Digi-Key. I remember seeing someplace but it isn't list in an obvious chip category. --Steve Msg#:14501 *PROJECTS* 02/20/89 09:52:24 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: RICHARD BERESNIEWICZ (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 14384 (MC145406 RS-232 LEVEL SHIFT) Jameco lists it under Linear ICs. Info for Jameco can be found in the Circuit Cellar information section in the main menu. Msg#:14429 *PROJECTS* 02/18/89 20:09:24 From: JOSEPH D GRADECKI To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: 8231A Steve, I was wondering if you have done anything with the 8231A arithmetic processing unit from Intel? I have been quoted prices of $160.00 per chip is that accurate? joe Msg#:14453 *PROJECTS* 02/19/89 05:21:06 From: GARY LEAR To: JOSEPH D GRADECKI (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 14429 (8231A) I am glad to see it has come down in price. When I bought several a few years ago, they were over $200. I wish Intel would update them though. I seem to recall two supply voltages (+12, +5) and that they were power hogs. Nice if you need a general purpose number cruncher. Check out the Super-number cruncher (MM57109, I think) from National. It is CMOS, and is easy to program in an ala HP RPN mode. It is *much* slower however. --Gary P.S. Come to think of it the MM57109 is the number of the original chip. Contact National for info on the super version. Msg#:14485 *PROJECTS* 02/20/89 03:54:23 From: FRANK HENRIQUEZ To: GARY LEAR (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 14453 (8231A) The 8231A is Intel's number for the old AMD 9511 math chip. I'm surprized to see that its still that expensive; the part was designed in the mid 70's! an 8087 is faster (and cheaper). One option for a math coprocessor that many folks have overlooked is the Motorola 68881. Even though its designed as a coprocessor for the 68020, it can act as a (slower) I/O mapped math coprocessor for other cpus, including 8 bit ones, since you can tell it it use an 8, 16 or 32 bit data bus, depending on the CPU. The 68881 is at least as fast as the equivalent clock speed 80387 and a *LOT* cheaper - I think a 16 MHZ 68881 can be bought for around $150 in single quantities. The cpu interface is very simple; the '881 requires a chip select, 5 address lines, an address and a data strobe and 8, 16 or 32 data lines. Msg#:14489 *PROJECTS* 02/20/89 04:53:04 From: GARY LEAR To: FRANK HENRIQUEZ (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 14485 (8231A) Thanks for the info. Do you know if it comes in CMOS (the 68881)? I need a part that performs transcendentals and the Intel and National parts do so. --Gary Msg#:14615 *PROJECTS* 02/21/89 23:12:43 From: FRANK HENRIQUEZ To: GARY LEAR (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 14489 (8231A) Gary, the 68881 is fabricated in HCMOS; a combination of CMOS and NMOS gates. According to the 68881 data manual, it dissipates a max of 0.75W at 5V. Not exactly a low power device... Frank Msg#:14636 *PROJECTS* 02/22/89 04:50:42 From: GARY LEAR To: FRANK HENRIQUEZ (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 14615 (8231A) Frank, HCMOS stands for High Speed CMOS and represents one of the major innovations in CMOS technology. It exhibits speeds that are largely comparable with LS, but at CMOS power levels (usually a tenth or so of LS, frequently much lower). Are you sure about the NMOS content? Motorola has been making a number of their processors (MC68HC11) in HCMOS exclusively. 0.75 W sounds suspiciously like package dissipation limits, and is thus not necessarily indicative of the parts actual performance. Please check the specs for a typical or maximum Icc, this should be a closer figure to reality. Thanks for your help. --Gary Msg#:14679 *PROJECTS* 02/22/89 23:41:48 From: JOSEPH D GRADECKI To: GARY LEAR (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 14453 (8231A) Thnaks for the information. They are indeed two power supply voltages. Price is a bit to steep for me at the moment. I was looking to by around 16 of them if the price had been alot lower. joe Msg#:14692 *PROJECTS* 02/23/89 04:20:33 From: FRANK HENRIQUEZ To: GARY LEAR (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 14636 (8231A) Gary: The power dissipation is a max of 0.75W at 5V. This is *the* number to use. The manual states that PD = PINT + PPORT, where PPORT is usually very small, and PINT is the standard V x Icc, so you can figure that PD ~~ V x Icc. They have separate figures for the package dissipation. And since this PD number is the only place where an Icc is even vaguely referenced, this must be the >maximum< power for the 68881. As they say out here in California, "Your PD may vary. California PD will be lower". I guess 0.75 W is pretty bad for a CMOS part. The 68020 number is 1.75W, though, and its also an HCMOS part. Msg#:14695 *PROJECTS* 02/23/89 04:37:21 From: GARY LEAR To: JOSEPH D GRADECKI (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 14679 (8231A) I have a couple of the beasts. What in the world do you need 16 for? Has your toaster gone bad? :-) I also have the Am9511 (?). Will just one help? Cheap. Good luck with your project and let me know if I can be of any more help. --Gary Msg#:14696 *PROJECTS* 02/23/89 04:44:06 From: GARY LEAR To: FRANK HENRIQUEZ (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 14692 (8231A) Must have a *whale* of a lot of transistors (MOS or otherwise)! Where do they make that comment in California? I live in Redondo Beach (LA area), and *we* don't say that! :-) Thanks for the info. I need a co-processor for my micrcontroller in my current robotics project. The only ones I have seen to date, either use too much current, or they are much too slow. It also has to do transcendentals, since this forms my MAP & NAV board. Thanks again. --Gary Msg#:14787 *PROJECTS* 02/24/89 03:50:20 From: FRANK HENRIQUEZ To: GARY LEAR (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 14696 (8231A) Well, Gary, you could always use the 1855 CMOS multiplier from RCA! its part of their 1802 cpu family...(just kidding. Its slow, even by 1976 CMOS standards). I love CMOS. My first CPU was an 1802, and I could run it off a 9V battery for 1/2 or so (longer if I turned off the LED display...). Msg#:14855 *PROJECTS* 02/24/89 22:58:49 From: JOSEPH D GRADECKI To: GARY LEAR (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 14695 (8231A) I'd be interested in one of them. Let me know the price and I'll see what I can do. Sixteen?! well I've built a parallel system using the 8031 and wanted to speed things up a bit but I didn't expect $160 a pop. Leave me some mail with the price. joe Msg#:14868 *PROJECTS* 02/25/89 04:06:38 From: GARY LEAR To: JOSEPH D GRADECKI (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 14855 (8231A) Would the Am9211 ? (I think that is the number) do? I believe it is basically the same part. Do you need transcendentals? Or just floating point? I kind of hate to give up the trig functions, I use them for robot nav systems. I will have to think about the price. It partially depends on what you really need. Oops! I didn't finish a thought train. There is also a floating point only version of the Intel part, I have a few of these as well (same family, very similar). Let me know and we will haggle the price. --Regards, Gary Msg#:14870 *PROJECTS* 02/25/89 04:21:54 From: GARY LEAR To: FRANK HENRIQUEZ (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 14787 (8231A) Slow isn't the word! All of my home designs (and as many work and consulting jobs as possible) use CMOS almost exclusively. I was converted by a very wise man (now with Bell Labs) at the Air Force Academy in 1977. I haven't really missed TTL all that much. What do you think of AC and ACT technology? Not to mention the big mess that TI made of things (my usually reliable spies tell me that TI is coming out with a "B" version of their AC line that conforms to standard pinouts). Have fun. --Gary Msg#:14871 *PROJECTS* 02/25/89 05:05:00 From: FRANK HENRIQUEZ To: GARY LEAR (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 14870 (8231A) I try to use HC parts in place of LS TTL, whenever possible. The exception are fast CPU circuits (12MHz and higher) which really need F TTL parts. Msg#:14550 *PROJECTS* 02/21/89 00:40:40 From: JAMES O'SULLIVAN To: ED NISLEY (Rcvd) Subj: IMAGEWISE/PC Ed, What would it take to give the imagewise PC color digitizing capability? Would such a modification be feasible without a complete redesign of the device? I would like to digitize color images, but most of the comercial color digitizers are quite expenisve. Thanks. Msg#:14581 *PROJECTS* 02/21/89 09:25:11 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: JAMES O'SULLIVAN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 14550 (IMAGEWISE/PC) If making the ImageWise/PC (or original ImageWise) into a color digitizer was a simple, no-cost modification that didn't involve a complete redesign, wouldn't we have done it already? Most true color digitizers on the market cost 2-3 times what ImageWise does, and for good reason. Trying to capture a color image in real time is a problem an order of magnitude higher than just black and white. Now if you don't mind taking multiple images and writing some software, you could probably take three pictures through three different color filters, then combine them into a single color image, but that's not what most people are talking about when they refer to color digitizing. Msg#:14872 *PROJECTS* 02/25/89 05:58:55 From: DAVID BURESS To: JAMES O'SULLIVAN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 14550 (IMAGEWISE/PC) James- Have you heard of the Jovian VIA? From what I understand, it is a NTSC compatible frame grabber, does 320x240x256. The images that I've seen generated by the VIA are very good. Price is in the $600-700 range. Like you, I would like to find an inexpensive alternative. I have the imagewise serial system, and a ComputerEyes. They both do good greyscale, but it should the three image scan (RGB) with filters should be possible with the right software. My experiments with the ZIP software and some 'close' color filter, gave marginal results. The AMIGA folks have the digi-view- sells for around $150 and uses software, three-filters, and a B/W camera (not included)- and the results I've seen are quite impressive. I wish the ComputerEyes folks had done something similar (I could have used the old board, and my B/W camera), but they decided to make a new board, which is not a frame grabber, and double the price. Add to that the cost of a color video camera! OUCH! And, the images I've seen from that board are very poor! I'm not surprised that they haven't released a DEMO program for the color version. Good luck with the search for color. Hope this message is usefull. Msg#:14610 *PROJECTS* 02/21/89 22:04:51 From: SILAS ANTONE To: ALL Subj: Z8 (Z8671-BASIC) DOES ANYONE KNOW WHAT DOCUMENTATION IS AVAILABLE FROM MICRO-MINT FOR THEIR Z8 MPU BOARD IS IT INCLUDED IN THE PRICE OF THE BOARD OR IS IT SOLD SEPARATE. I'M LOOKING FOR A MEMORY MAP AND A FULL LENGTH DESCRIPTION OF THE BASIC COMMAND SYNTAXS. ALSO A GUIDE FOR HAND ASSEMBLING. IS THE PROCESSOR PROGRAMMED IN STANDARD Z-80 MACHINE LANG. ? Msg#:14648 *PROJECTS* 02/22/89 09:00:35 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: SILAS ANTONE (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 14610 (Z8 (Z8671-BASIC)) You may purchase a complete manual set covering the Z8 and related peripherals for $39. The BCC11 (Z8 board) comes with complete documentation for the price of the board and includes a manual describing the BASIC. Even though the Z8 is remotely related to the Z80, the instruction sets are completely different. Z80 code will not run on a Z8 and vice versa. Msg#:14748 *PROJECTS* 02/23/89 18:40:38 From: THAO VU To: ALL Subj: IMAGEWISE I wonder if anybody can give me some specifics on the RCA phono jacks used on the imagewise digitizer/transmitter. I have the transmitter kit, but in the parts list, it failed to mention the source of where i can obtain the phono jacks. The phono jacks that i believe should be used is really hard to find in my area. Msg#:14804 *PROJECTS* 02/24/89 08:52:55 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: THAO VU (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 14748 (IMAGEWISE) Go to the Circuit Cellar information section from the main menu and look up the address and phone number for Mouser Electronics. They've starting carrying those jacks since the original ImageWise was put together. Their part number is ME161-4216. Get a catalog from them before you try ordering. Msg#:14781 *PROJECTS* 02/24/89 01:19:00 From: PAUL ROSSI To: JEFF BACHIOCHI (Rcvd) Subj: BCC52 Jeff I have a rather strange problem that I'd like to pass by you. I'm using the BCC52 as a translator between two pieces of gear. My problem is that the one that the 52 is connected to is locked (thru firmware) into 7 data bits and even parity. Do you know of a patch or other means that the 52 can be made send and receive parity. Msg#:14957 *PROJECTS* 02/27/89 08:44:37 From: JEFF BACHIOCHI To: PAUL ROSSI (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 14781 (BCC52) Paul, The BCC52's serial ports are fixed at 8 bits no parity! No patch can be made to alter this configuration. However either of the two serial expansion boards can be user configured. The BCC08 is a single UART board with a 20ma option for under $150.00. The BCC18 is a dual UART board where each UART can be replaced with a MOSART (1200-bps modem.) The BCC18S is under $180.00. Each MOSART purchased (if needed) adds about $150.00 to that price. An alternative might be the BCC55 prototyping board! For under $80.00 you can add your own UART to the 4 square inches of prototyping space on the BCC55. This board buffers and decodes the BCC_BUS making quick additions a snap! jeff Msg#:14900 *PROJECTS* 02/26/89 01:41:40 From: PETE MCPHEDRAN To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: BCC52 Steve : just thought I'd say thanks for a great magazine and congratulations on the new lay out. :-{) I also would like some info on the BCC52. Can you connect a modem to it, I would like to get into some X-110 controlling with it via touch tone phone signals. Is this a feasable project? Also do you intend to put out a kit for the SB180 through CCI like the letter said when I received my serial eprom kit.(a great help I should add). Perhaps the SB180 would be a better base for a phone in system to control the X-10 modules?! How about some printed circuit board only kits too! I can usually get the parts needed here (Canada) easier and less costly (taxes and duty you know) so all I ever need are the boards. Again thank you and your commrades for the great reading material and I hope you'll start writing more articles again and get out of the back cover. Sorry for the typo's my keyboards acting up.(Damn clones!) Msg#:14914 *PROJECTS* 02/26/89 12:08:25 From: STEVE CIARCIA To: PETE MCPHEDRAN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 14900 (BCC52) Call Micromint (203-871-6170) and they will send you info on the BCC52. In brief, the 52 has 3 parallel ports, 1 1/2 serial ports, up to 48K memory, an onboard EPROM programmer, and has lots of I/O expansion boards available for it. The software for BCC52 and X-10 has already been done as a CC INK project. And yes, it could easily tie to a modem. Regarding an SB180 kit, perhaps in the fall. But, for now you could use the BCC180 if 64180 is your objective. Think of it as an SB180 on a BCC bus -- Unlimited I/O. X-10 software exists for it too. Finally, PC boards only? Never. And, I have a project in the next CC INK. --Steve Msg#:14903 *PROJECTS* 02/26/89 04:56:45 From: GARY LEAR To: FRANK HENRIQUEZ (Rcvd) Subj: FAST CMOS You must not be keeping up with the latest industry noises :-). Even FAST and ALS parts are being challenged by Advanced CMOS, with clock speeds in excess of 100 MHz! As I recall, Fairchild developed the Fast TTL line, and the new FACT parts from them are basically AC parts. Until recently however, TI had mucked up the general acceptance of this family by introducing a completely new pinout for the entire group. They insisted that the ground bounce in a traditional DIP package was excessive and needed multiple ground and Vcc pins. Needless to say, this caused a major controversy since most of their competitors (RCA, Fairchild, IDT, etc) did not see things that way and produced standard parts. TI is said to be preparing a new release that conforms to the established pinout (RCA forced their hand by producing a standard part with ground bounce that is nearly as good as TI's). The real irony behind all of this is that it is only a problem with octal parts, and then only when changing 7 outputs at once. Oh, well! Have fun. --Gary Msg#:15046 *PROJECTS* 02/28/89 04:35:10 From: FRANK HENRIQUEZ To: GARY LEAR (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 14903 (FAST CMOS) I remember the controversy over the TI CMOS pinouts. Seemed like a general hassle. In my defense, I was waiting for the dust to settle...besides, F parts are still much easier to get (and cheaper) than FACT parts. Of course, I'd much rather have a Quantum Tunneling device, that runs off femtoamps at Gigahertz speed... but they're at least 5 or 10 years in the future. Msg#:15047 *PROJECTS* 02/28/89 04:45:05 From: GARY LEAR To: FRANK HENRIQUEZ (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 15046 (FAST CMOS) Hah! I have one in my lab right now...if I could just find it... --Gary Msg#:15083 *PROJECTS* 02/28/89 12:30:50 From: BOB PADDOCK To: FRANK HENRIQUEZ (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 15046 (FAST CMOS) Actually Quantum Tunneling Devices are 15 or 20 years back into the PAST! Ever used a Tunnel Diode (like the 1N3712)? [I think there is a message tread about them look for "low voltage" or "single solar cell power supply" some thing like that. ] The Tunnel diode is so old there is now only one place (that I have found) on the planet that still makes them (Germanium Semiconductor), but there prices are redicquless (String the solar cells together was cheeper). Msg#:14920 *PROJECTS* 02/26/89 13:08:10 From: JOE BROWNELL To: JERRY BLACK Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 3806 (BYTE BITES THE DUST) Self-serving crap is being polite. I cancelled just in time, and now subscribe to CCI. Now, if only I could overcome an address change and receive my second issue... Msg#:14921 *PROJECTS* 02/26/89 13:25:34 From: ROBERT J. URQUHART To: ED NISLEY (Rcvd) Subj: MANDRELBOT ENGINE DRIVER.EXE I have a VIDEO SEVEN VEGA VGA board and the screen goes blank when I run driver.exe. Is this normal? Should I just wait longer for something to happen or what? If it is a problem with the VGA board has anyone got a fix ? I'm using driver -fake:1 and have also tried -fake:2. I have a 386/20 and 287. Any suggestions? Msg#:15089 *PROJECTS* 02/28/89 17:41:55 From: ED NISLEY To: ROBERT J. URQUHART (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 14921 (MANDRELBOT ENGINE DRIVER.EXE) Unfortunately, while that's not the way it should work, it's probably not unusual... The problem is that DRIVER uses some very tricky code for the smooth scrolling and panning effects. I had a devil of a time (but lots of fun) getting it to work on an IBM EGA, an IBM PS/2 VGA, and an EGA Blunder clone card. In retrospect, I should have just done a straight display to the screen and skipped the frills, but it was hard to pass up the opportunity to get more pels than the screen could hold. Try running it with the vertical interrupts disabled (-VOFF or something like that; check the help text) to see if it runs that way. If so, there is an incompatibilty with the interrupt hardware; some cards don't have the vertical interrupt output that I use to time the screen updates and motion, so the code simply hangs. Would that there were only a few, boring cards... but what fun would that be? Msg#:15097 *PROJECTS* 02/28/89 20:57:04 From: ROBERT J. URQUHART To: ED NISLEY (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 15089 (MANDRELBOT ENGINE DRIVER.EXE) I'll give that a try. Thanks for the sugestion. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Msg#:15119 *PROJECTS* 03/01/89 03:30:14 From: STEVE SAMPSON To: TONI CORTEZ (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 15068 (IMAGEWISE) The best technique for problems like these; is to compile the program and see what errors develop. Then look at and modify the functions where the errors occur. Msg#:15330 *PROJECTS* 03/04/89 08:50:52 From: TONI CORTEZ To: STEVE SAMPSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 15119 (IMAGEWISE) Thanks for the reply.The problem is that the sgstat.h not there.What I am trying to do is figure out what is in it. I think that by eliminating the include and do the compile I come up with the missing functions.I was hopping that that file was part of one of the existing compilers. Msg#:15134 *PROJECTS* 03/01/89 09:02:17 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: DAVID BESCOVI (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 15087 (64180 XASM) There is a Z80 cross-assembler in the cross-development tools file area here. If you can live with the funny syntax, I'm sure you can fool it into generating the few extra HD64180 instructions when you need them. Msg#:15169 *PROJECTS* 03/01/89 17:01:06 From: DAVID BESCOVI To: KEN DAVIDSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 15134 (64180 XASM) I DOWNLOADED BOTH XASM'S IN THE DEV. FILE AREA. THANKS. IS THERE ANY DOCUMENTATION FOR THE ZMAC ASSEMBLER? THERE IS NOTHING ON SYNTAX OR EVEN ANYTHING ON HOW TO FORMAT MACROS. I DID FIGURE OUT SOME OF THE PSEUDO-OPS BY LOOKING AT THE Y_TAB.C FILE. I WOULD LIKE TO KNOW HOW TO USE IT'S MACRO ABILITY. THE ZMAC SEEMSTO BE MORE POWERFULL THEN THE PSEUDOSAM ASSEM. ANY COMMENTS??? DAVE Msg#:15200 *PROJECTS* 03/02/89 08:49:01 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: DAVID BESCOVI (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 15169 (64180 XASM) I don't know any more about it than you. The assembler was uploaded by another user of the BBS and I simply reposted it. Msg#:15180 *PROJECTS* 03/02/89 00:17:10 From: PETE MCPHEDRAN To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 14914 (BCC52) Steve : Thanks for the information. But I dont understand why "never" to the printed circuit boards. Am I missing something? Pete. Msg#:15205 *PROJECTS* 03/02/89 08:57:30 From: STEVE CIARCIA To: PETE MCPHEDRAN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 15180 (BCC52) It is a long and detailed answer which I have discussed many times. Rather than rehash it, I'll try to find some of the old messages for you. In a nutshell it go like this: Take the ImageWise/PC schematic in the latest CC INK and make a PC board (presume the engineering is free and I give you a licence at no charge to do it). How much are you going to charge me for one PC board if I buy it from you? How much for the software? --Steve PS These are real questions, not a hypothetical situation. How much? Msg#:15183 *PROJECTS* 03/02/89 01:05:54 From: DAVID MACDONALD To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: DDT-51 Hi. Somewhere I read that a DDT-51 board will be available in March. If so, can it be ordered before the next issue of CCINK? Thanks for all your contributions! Msg#:15198 *PROJECTS* 03/02/89 08:30:35 From: JOSEPH D GRADECKI To: GARY LEAR (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 14868 (8231A) I am looking mainly for floating-point. I am writting a software package to do them on nodes without the chips. I'd be interested in knowing the part number for the float only. joe Msg#:15225 *PROJECTS* 03/02/89 13:55:08 From: GARY LEAR To: JOSEPH D GRADECKI (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 15198 (8231A) Joe, I will get back to you in a few days. If I haven't sent the info by late next week, fire me! :-) (Actually, just a reminder should do the trick.) Regards, Gary Msg#:15395 *PROJECTS* 03/05/89 15:46:38 From: GARY LEAR To: JOSEPH D GRADECKI (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 15198 (8231A) Well Joe, I guess you won't have to fire me after all. The floating point only processor from Intel is the 8232. It may no longer be available from them. You might also check with AMD (are they still around?) since their name is next to the date on my Intel chips. I have specs on this part if you need info. Good luck. --Gary Msg#:15476 *PROJECTS* 03/07/89 00:55:39 From: JOSEPH D GRADECKI To: GARY LEAR (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 15395 (8231A) Thanks. Is that (8232) the number for AMD also or do they have a separate number? Also, I recall reading somewhere that there is a version of the 8031 with FORTH in the 8k on-chip ROM instead of Basic? IS this particular chip still manufactured? joe Msg#:15481 *PROJECTS* 03/07/89 02:49:50 From: GARY LEAR To: JOSEPH D GRADECKI (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 15476 (8231A) I *thought* the AMD number was 9512 for one and 9511 for the other, but I do not have my AMD data here and I am not sure. I am also not sure about the 8031 Forth. It would be harder to write since the processor is not structured for threaded languages (the Z8 for example, is so structured). I would ckeck with Forth, Inc. here in Southern CA, for current info on what's available. And as you may have read earlier, the 68HC11 does have a Forth available for it. --Gary Msg#:15519 *PROJECTS* 03/07/89 19:08:21 From: JIM NELSON To: JOSEPH D GRADECKI (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 15476 (8231A) Bryte Forth for the 8031 is supplied in an EPROM; they're located in Augusta, Maine. 207/547-3218. It costs $100 including the manual. Bryte Computers is the company name in case that phone is outdated. There's also SDS Inc. in Montreal, Quebec. (514) 461-2332. This product is an 83 standard Forth, unlike Bryte's, which is ( or was) 79 standard. And it is also $100. Forth, Inc. wants $3500 for their 8031/51 product, "ChipForth". For anyone interested, Encoder Products Company, (208) 263-8541, sells a distributed BITBUS control system which has been carved out of their own 83 standard Forth. Bitbus is a synchronous serial bus supported by the dual processor i8044 - which contains an 8051 core. So ... ... And we just want to ... _ FORTH _ YOU _ UP !!! Msg#:15527 *PROJECTS* 03/07/89 21:10:52 From: STEVE CIARCIA To: JOSEPH D GRADECKI (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 15476 (8231A) Bryte Computers has an ad for there 8031 Forth in the next CC INK. --Steve Msg#:15536 *PROJECTS* 03/07/89 22:14:25 From: JOSEPH D GRADECKI To: GARY LEAR (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 15481 (8231A) Ok, Thanks Gary. I'll check on the AMD 9512. joe Msg#:15537 *PROJECTS* 03/07/89 22:15:55 From: JOSEPH D GRADECKI To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 15527 (8231A) I'll look for it. Thanks Guys. joe Msg#:15542 *PROJECTS* 03/07/89 22:58:31 From: GARY LEAR To: JOSEPH D GRADECKI (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 15536 (8231A) Let me know if I can do anything else. --Gary Msg#:15214 *PROJECTS* 03/02/89 10:06:23 From: STEVE CIARCIA To: DAVID MACDONALD (Rcvd) Subj: DDT-51 KIT NOW AVAILABLE Yes, a DDT-51 kit is in the works. We should have a price on it within a week or two. Unfortunately, it is behind schedule. The PC Layout house lost the artwork and had to do it over again! Ask me next week again. --Steve Msg#:15248 *PROJECTS* 03/03/89 01:49:51 From: JIM ZEEK To: JEFF BACHIOCHI (Rcvd) Subj: EPROM PROGRAMMER Steve, or others, I just bought and built the serial eprom programmer (sep27-1) and am having some trouble with it. When powered on the red led blinks once but nothing else happens. When checking with a scope, I don't see any signal on the xtal inputs to the 8051. Should I? There is no activity on any other 8051 lines and the PIAs don't get initalized. Any tips? Msg#:15416 *PROJECTS* 03/06/89 07:24:13 From: BILL CURLEW To: JIM ZEEK (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 15248 (EPROM PROGRAMMER) Hi, How far in the starup procedure are you?? have you installed the minimum nuber of chips to run the 8052, or did you breeze ahead and put 'em all in ?? I would drop to just the 8052 and see if any of the lines come up. Also, check the +5 supply from power on until the system locks up. Sounds like something might be pulling the supply down. Luck to ya. Bill Msg#:15430 *PROJECTS* 03/06/89 09:01:55 From: JEFF BACHIOCHI To: JIM ZEEK (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 15248 (EPROM PROGRAMMER) Jim, Bill has good advice. It is always good to start with just the basics. You might want to check the RESET line to make sure it is not high (being held in reset.) Look real hard at the xtal, c10 and c11. The osc should be running no mater what state the other lines are in. (Once power is applied :-) jeff Msg#:15930 *PROJECTS* 03/14/89 17:29:12 From: JIM ZEEK To: BILL CURLEW (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 15416 (EPROM PROGRAMMER) Thanks for the reply. Soon after my first posting, I found that one of the caps near the crystal was shorted. After removeing it the eprom works fine now. The only other problem was swapping leads for the bi/dir led. The programmer seems to work fine without a second cap although it wouldn't hurt to replace it. Msg#:15932 *PROJECTS* 03/14/89 17:30:50 From: JIM ZEEK To: JEFF BACHIOCHI (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 15430 (EPROM PROGRAMMER) thanks for the reply. It was a shorted c11. Msg#:15958 *PROJECTS* 03/15/89 08:58:39 From: JEFF BACHIOCHI To: JIM ZEEK (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 15932 (EPROM PROGRAMMER) Jim, Shorted cap? I've seen many a solder or copper short but very few shorted caps! jeff Msg#:16121 *PROJECTS* 03/19/89 15:24:07 From: JIM ZEEK To: JEFF BACHIOCHI (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 15958 (EPROM PROGRAMMER) I measured it after pulling it out. Less than 1 ohm. OH well. Jim Zeek Msg#:15300 *PROJECTS* 03/03/89 17:34:15 From: BRIAN JOSEPH To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: TIMS AGAIN...... Steve, I have just been asked to design a system to do the following things: 1. Answer a phone a play a pre-recorded message from a tape recorder. 2. While the message is playing, dial a cellular phone number on a 2nd phone line. 3. When the party answers at the other end, connect the two lines together. 4. When both parties hang up, reset for next call. I figured that the easiest way to go was with a BCC11 or BCC52 and a MOSART board. The only other misc stuff I would need is a relay for the tape recorder. This system is pretty close to your TIMS. The only other problem I have is with the party hanging up. What I intended on doing was hooking up an optoisolator across the phone line and monitoring that to determine when the far end hung up. Even though I don't need the modem function of the MOSART, I figured it would be the best choice instead of having a TT encoder/decoder and a call progress decoder PLUS a DAA. Have I left anything unconsidered? Thanks! Brian. P.S. I don't know if you ever read any OTHER electronic mags ( :-) ) but one of them (I think it was Modern Electronics) had an article in it and the author refered them to some article of yours in RADIO ELECTRONICS!!!! You never wrote for them, did you???!??!?!!!! Msg#:15366 *PROJECTS* 03/05/89 10:09:20 From: STEVE CIARCIA To: BRIAN JOSEPH (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 15300 (TIMS AGAIN......) The only article I ever wrote for Radio Electronics was about 10 years ago and it was about X-10 transmissions. It is still often referred to because it was the only detailed description of the actual X-10 transmission codes and not written like a review of the product. I don't know the reasons for any present reference but That's all I've ever written for RE. Now, to answer your question. Yes, a BCC52, BCC18S serial port/modem board, and a BCC40R relay board (unless you build one relay on a BCC55 prototyping board) would probably work. It all depends on how much you want to spend for an off the shelf solution versus hand wiring. What you need is a processor board, a DAA, and three relays or two relays and a DTMF tranceiver chip. In fact, just those few parts on a protoboard with a BCC52 would probably work fine. Only if price is no object, or you need an instantly working unit, would I go to the Mossarts. Finally, if this is to be a volume product, you may want to consider the RTC31 or RTC52 (see message 14101). For the short term, it also has a proto board so you could build the same unit described above. Also, ken is working on the next RTC I/O board which coincidentally happens to be a phone board with relay, DTMF tranceiver, etc. --Steve Msg#:15460 *PROJECTS* 03/06/89 19:29:42 From: BRIAN JOSEPH To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 15366 (TIMS AGAIN......) The main reason I wanted to go with a MOSART is that it could handle the line interface (for one of the lines) and to decode the call progress tones. I have seen single chip call progress detectors, but I'm not well versed in the art of analog electronics. Msg#:15301 *PROJECTS* 03/03/89 17:44:40 From: BRIAN JOSEPH To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: CONTROL THE WORLD..... Steve, I have been thinking about your desire to live in a controlled environment. Obvoiously, you have pretty much achieved your goal. Well, some day I hope to be able to build my own "controlled environment"! Since you have been doing some video projects (Imagewise), I was wondering if you've ever thought about making a general purpose cable-compat TV tuner with a composite output and the ability to OVERLAY another video source. For example, let's say that you are watching tv and someone rings the bell. Your HCS or whatever is controlling your house could flash a message, say in the right-hand corner of the screen. A push of the button on your handy remote and a LIVE picture appears on the, say lower-left of the screen. Now, you can talk to the person at the front door through a mike in the room, and hear the person through the TV. I'm I crazy?? Well, it sounded good to me.....:-) I know, it probably costs millions of dollars to overlay video on video and...... Thanks for listening (reading?) Brian. Msg#:15370 *PROJECTS* 03/05/89 10:26:57 From: STEVE CIARCIA To: BRIAN JOSEPH (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 15301 (CONTROL THE WORLD.....) I generally try to stay away from big video synchronization projects like you suggest but I suppose there is a possibility someday. Of course, necessity is the Mother of invention and my present system can already do something like what you desribed (bet you didn't know that). If anyone enters my driveway it beeps in the house (soon as the weather gets warmer it will be the whole permeter). Inside the house are a couple Toshiba color TVs in stragetic places. These TVs have 3 auxhilary video inputs in addition to the RF video. In issue one of CC INK I described a TV camera multiplexer that could track something via motion detectors. Well, the output from that system is cabled into the house and connected to one of these aux inputs on the TVs. When the perimeter sensor beeps, all I have to do is press the IR remote used ordinarily for the Toshiba TV to switch to the aux #1 input (aux #2 is the HCS video output status display) and see whichever outside camera the video/motion-triggered mux has selected. Still haven't figured out what to do with aux #3 yet :-) Gess I got it covered. --Steve Msg#:15434 *PROJECTS* 03/06/89 09:29:35 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: BRIAN JOSEPH (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 15301 (CONTROL THE WORLD.....) Rabbit sells a box for doing the video overlay portion of your idea. They call it Double Play and it will do the PIP (picture in picture) tricks that many of the new digital TVs and VCRs are doing. It has a cable tuner and video input. One picture comes from the internal tuner and the second picture comes from the video input (presumably from a VCR, but it could be a camera). You can display either source in the full-size screen while the other source is displayed in one corner. You can select which corner gets the insert and how far from the corner it is displayed. At the touch of a button it swaps the two pictures. The whole thing is IR controlled, so works well with most trainable remotes. I just bought one and love it. Many esoteric mail-order companies sell it for about $250. DAK sells it for around $130. Msg#:15461 *PROJECTS* 03/06/89 19:31:12 From: BRIAN JOSEPH To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 15370 (CONTROL THE WORLD.....) Well, I think I understand....when I'm rich a famous (I hope!) I'll be able to afford to have all of these nice things...:-) Msg#:15462 *PROJECTS* 03/06/89 19:37:11 From: BRIAN JOSEPH To: KEN DAVIDSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 15434 (CONTROL THE WORLD.....) Ken, Yes, I've seen the PIP device in the DAK cats. The main thing I was thinking of (which I don't think I mentioned in my original message :-)) was the following: I would have a cable TV tuner that was COMPUTER controllable (for tuning,etc) Then, I could have ONE remote with a few buttons on it. With an IR sensor in each room where there is a monito{, the central computer could allow the remote to controll anything that was connected to it ({he computer). Then, for{instance, when the doorbell rang, a PIP with a message from the com puter system could appear with a MENU. 1 could be "Allow me to speak to person at door" 2 could be "play recorded message saying I'm not home", etc.. Also, the remote could be used to control other things as well. Kind of a Master Remote with out all of that hardware. Did this make any sense? Brian Msg#:15314 *PROJECTS* 03/04/89 01:30:31 From: ALAN LEGRAND To: ALL Subj: HAL I recently(okay, october) purchased a HAL kit. I now have a program for my 512KE MAC running which displays the fourier transform on all 4 channel every 2 seconds. (1sec of data .9sec to display) Should I uploading this? It's guaranteed to have bugs! But it will allow all the brave souls out therewith MAC's who refuse to break down and buy a PC (does this describe anyone but me?) test their project. Which is without a doubt one the best projects Steve has designed. On a second note , my humble opinion on the SYNERGY(R-E) project (I don't own one.) It a trite new age idea which is about as valid as sumbliminal messages. Further, listening to MUSIC your choice: classical, ROCK, or Jazz) is definitely more effective in stimulating mental activity than a sine wave pattern (of abet the right frequeny) can possibly be. Further, it requires hearing in both ears because of the FM method it employs. A better project would employ AM modulation, I.E. a good rythym. DRUM MUSIC ANYONE?? Alan LeGrand Msg#:15316 *PROJECTS* 03/04/89 02:24:48 From: FRANK HENRIQUEZ To: ALAN LEGRAND (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 15314 (HAL) Alan, I have an old (1984), trusty, much upgraded 512K Mac and a Mac II. I'd like to see your code. To paraphrase the greeks:"PC's for duty, Macs for pleasure" Msg#:15324 *PROJECTS* 03/04/89 04:02:57 From: GARY LEAR To: FRANK HENRIQUEZ (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 15316 (HAL) Since the Mac is so "programmer hostile" anyway, no wonder it is only for pleasure. :-) Frank, I have a very good friend who is a registered Mac developer. He and I always argue over our respective machines. If you guys are into Macs, how about trying to convert the rest of us? Fair warning though, it won't be easy. --Gary Msg#:15361 *PROJECTS* 03/05/89 02:15:48 From: FRANK HENRIQUEZ To: GARY LEAR (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 15324 (HAL) Oy Vey. Its tempting...but I'm tired of defending the Mac. Sheesh, its been around for 5 years! if anyone out there still needs convincing... I use PCs for general lab work, running equipment, with fairly simplistic goals and interfaces. I hate it. While the Mac has a *much* steeper learning curve (from a programmer's point of view) you get what you pay for - really good programs and great graphics. I have a frame grabber in my Mac II at work, and one in an AT clone. Granted, I've been programming Macs for a while, but it took less time to get the Mac program to work nicely, with graphics and some real time processing. The AT program works OK, but it just takes pictures, stores them on disk and...thats about it. Mind numbing programming, not much of a challenge, and the rewards are much less. Besides, It would have been tough to duplicate my program on an Intel processor; shleping 300K of pictures around in memory is no big deal with a 68020, but it would have been an ugly kludge on an AT. But...I really enjoy putting together little controllers and single board computers. Thats fun. IBM/MS-DOS is not. Msg#:15368 *PROJECTS* 03/05/89 10:13:18 From: GARY LEAR To: FRANK HENRIQUEZ (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 15361 (HAL) Even I may convert to the Mac...someday. (If only Apple wasn't too fond of them to let any go. $$$). --Regards, Gary Msg#:15387 *PROJECTS* 03/05/89 12:23:04 From: STEVE CIARCIA To: ALAN LEGRAND (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 15314 (HAL) Why don't you upload the MAC code. We've gotten 3 MAC around here in the last couple months (the first 6 issues of CC INK were done on the PC, starting issue #8 it is 100% MAC; I'll still keep my AT) so we might try it. Interestingly, the Synergy people sent me a board (in exchange for a HAL-4) and suggested that they want to purchase HALs to market with their board. In my opinion the Synergy board is much-ado about nothing and they are a very very small company. They claim to have sold a couple hundred bare PC boards which is probably good but their $319 assembled version seems a might expensive. --Steve Msg#:15398 *PROJECTS* 03/05/89 18:30:28 From: JIM NELSON To: ALAN LEGRAND (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 15314 (HAL) What's the Synergy project? Is it one of those 'New Age' electronic scams? Like the goggles with the flashing LEDs? Those con artists are making a bundle on that junk! But I guess it's better than having them go into politics... Msg#:15399 *PROJECTS* 03/05/89 18:32:22 From: JIM NELSON To: GARY LEAR (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 15324 (HAL) You know, I don't ordinarily waste my time on empty argument, but... Your comment, ('the Mac is ... "programmer hostile'), is quite clearly a second-hand opinion, Gary. I'll give you credit for more sense than having come to that conclusion through experience. This all seems similar to the tired cant spewed about in the seemingly unending argument about microprocessor families and manufacturers. At first glance, it appears the same sort of meaningless brain noise indulged in by archetypical medieval philosopers debating the number of angels capable of dancing on the head of a pin. -- Great recreation for those with nothing better to do, but useless to an engineer facing real world constraints on cost, budgets, time, personnel, and market opportunity. There is, however, another side to this seeming debate. The primary reason I've read Steve Ciarcia (and cohorts) through the years is to follow his reasoning - and I don't recall seeing much which he emphasized more (in this vicarious design engineering experience) than the necessity of building upon what you've done before, and expending energy on innovation only where necessary. Otherwise you'll never finish anything, especially the innovative. So what really irks me about this processor vs. processor BS is that a lot of people use it to conceal their inexperience or unfamiliarity with the processors they most ambitiously insult - vs. simply admitting that the real reason they favor particular processors is because of their familiarity, and that it provides them the quickest way of finishing a job. Msg#:15405 *PROJECTS* 03/05/89 22:11:23 From: GARY LEAR To: JIM NELSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 15399 (HAL) Jim, a large portion of my comment was in jest. However, you are right in that my comment "the Mac is programmer hostile", is largely based on observation and some personal experience. A good friend of mine is an experienced software consultant and published programmer. He has worked on many systems in industry, including mainframes, mini's, and PC's. He left industry several years ago to finish a Mac program he had started. I must admit that much of my bias comes from the heated debates that he and I engage in concerning the relative merits of the IBMs amd the Mac (you couldn't take his Mac away now with a club). He spent almost 6 months of 12 hour days becoming proficient with the Mac's toolbox and operating system. I have used the Mac primarily from an operators point of view. I have only programmed it in a high level language and I haven't gone through the long learning curve to become adept with it. It is a very good machine, but as you say it is necessary to stay with what you know to get anything done. As far as debating microcontrollers are concerned, I find it necessary to stay at the forefront of my industry to remain competitive. I started working with micros in 1977 at the Air Force Academy. The first machine that I used was the National SC/MP. A hideous chip. We soon progressed to the 8080, although we had to create our own support functions (the support chips weren't available when our development boxes were designed). I was asked to lecture on interfacing techniques before the class was finished (I was enlisted and auditing the class). After I left the service I bought a SD Z80 kit and did some more interesting projects in college. I also used the 6802 in a stepper motor controller for the physics department. I used the 6802 because someone else had won a contest for submitting a proposal and had spec'd it. I used my first microcontroller in a fire control monitoring system in 1980 (the 8048). At DEC, I recommended the 8051 for a keyboard interface because it replaced the UART the 8048 design needed. I could go on. In short, I have used *many* microprocessors and microcontrollers in my career. They all have merits and disadvantages. At times I have been forced to use something that I have never even seen before for reasons that may or may not make sense. Use of the TMS9900 family was ok, we needed a rad hard part. Having to use the 68701 because someone else had used it on another unrelated project (we didn't even have access to the development tools) was silly. As microcontrollers become more and more integrated, it behooves designers to stay abreast of technology. Surely, if we don't, the competition will. --Gary Msg#:15412 *PROJECTS* 03/06/89 04:01:16 From: FRANK HENRIQUEZ To: GARY LEAR (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 15368 (HAL) Gary: While the learning curve for the Mac is steep, once you've had that Aha! of insight into how things go together it becomes an exciting and interesting machine to program. There is a lot to learn, but its easier now than it was back in '84...and the MS-DOS world is going to have to deal with OS/2 Real Soon Now, and its programming environment is at least as difficult to master as the Mac's. And least you can get program generators for that Macintosh, that let you set up the look of your program with a set of MacDraw like tools, then it generates the code for you. All you have to do is plug in your application code, and recompile. And I don't want to defend Apple's silly prices, but a clone with the equivalent features (in terms of memory, speed, windowing environment, etc) would cost almost as much as a Mac... I learned this while pricing 386 machines, and comparing these prices with the Mac II, which I eventually bought...although Apple could sell Macs at 1/2 price and STILL make a hefty profit. Msg#:15442 *PROJECTS* 03/06/89 11:34:07 From: STEVE CIARCIA To: JIM NELSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 15398 (HAL) I don't know what all this has to do with HAL but the reference to Synergy is what I am answering. The synergy board ia nothing more than a PC bus stereo sound generator that drives a pair of head phones. You type on the keyboard and it makes wierd noises in the earphones. Perfect kind of article for a three month project in Radio Electronics. yuch! Also, the latest one with the flashing LED goggles.... Gad, these guys will publish anything. --Steve Msg#:15840 *PROJECTS* 03/12/89 21:17:32 From: JIM NELSON To: GARY LEAR (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 15405 (HAL) Gotta keep us designers behooved! Msg#:15843 *PROJECTS* 03/12/89 21:41:17 From: GARY LEAR To: JIM NELSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 15840 (HAL) Amen! BTW, I do have several VRAM modules on hand from TI. They do indeed exist. --Gary Msg#:15934 *PROJECTS* 03/14/89 19:04:16 From: JIM NELSON To: GARY LEAR (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 15843 (HAL) Well I've had some of theirs and NEC's for years too. Buying *basic* VRAMs is no problem. My point was that Mr. O'Sullivan should first be certain that the components he wants to use are really available to him, and in the quantities to support production. I've been watching new VRAMs appear fairly regularly in the last few years; each one seems to solve another design headache. But the data sheets always seem to be available a year or so ahead of production quantities of these increasingly complex chips. Msg#:15948 *PROJECTS* 03/15/89 03:29:50 From: GARY LEAR To: JIM NELSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 15934 (HAL) Sorry, I misunderstood the message. I was under the impression that Mr. O'Sullivan was designing a project for his own use. I agree completely about the data (dream) sheets being considerably ahead of real silicon. But even the *basic* VRAM's beat the heck out of doing it with single port memories! --Gary Msg#:15988 *PROJECTS* 03/16/89 01:47:46 From: JIM NELSON To: GARY LEAR (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 15948 (HAL) Well, Gary, I don't know who he's doing it for! Let's hope he has _some_ fun. Msg#:15989 *PROJECTS* 03/16/89 03:33:38 From: ROBERT EUGSTER To: ALAN LEGRAND (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 15314 (HAL) Alan, I would also like to see your code. As a beginning Mac programmer I still have not reached that infamous "Ah ha" level of understanding. Although I've used a Mac since they came out and have had mine for about 10 months, I'm just now getting the time to jump head first into the Toolbox. Winter final's just finished and I thought it would be a good time to take a quarter break before starting my major courses this summer. (A 3 month break is great for this toolbox work). TO FRANK Are those program generators REALLY that good. I've read a little bit about them but have yet to see one in action? Also, Any comments on MacAPP or do you Know someone who uses it? I have a lot to learn and any help is MUCH appreciated. Robert Msg#:15343 *PROJECTS* 03/04/89 15:56:39 From: SIMON SABATO To: JEFF BACHIOCHI (Rcvd) Subj: BCC-52 Steve, I am building your BCC-52 from scratch. (Well, a machine VERY like it: less RAM, more I/O, etc.) Anyway, going over the schematic as I wirewrap my project, I was wondering at the method of deriving the CS line for the 64/128K EPROM. Pin 20, the CS line comes from the output of an AND gate, which has its two inputs come from two outputs of a 74LS138. But, never can 2 outputs of a '138 ever be on at the same time, right? Could you explain how the jumper, JP1 can make this setup function? If my guess is correct, which I know it isn't, then the three prongs of the jumper get connected (in the usual fashion) centre to up or centre to down, not up to down or all three together, correct? If it helps, I am reading from Volume VI of Ciarcia's Circuit Cellar. -Simon Sabato Msg#:15378 *PROJECTS* 03/05/89 11:09:00 From: STEVE CIARCIA To: SIMON SABATO (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 15343 (BCC-52) I forwarded your message to Jeff, the resident BCC52 guru these days, because I don't have any schematics at hand right now. The schematic that I presented in the originalBCC52 article and in CC Vol IV is not the same as today's BCC52 marketed by Micromint. The original unit addressed memory as combined data and code space. The latest version (REV 3.0) allows separation and extension of those spaces as well as lower power operation. When we get in the office Monday, we check a schematic and get back to you. One last thing. There was nothing wrong with the original design. It worked fine. It is just that the original design limited the BCC52 to 32K of RAM and 16K of EPROM in the Ziff socket, period. Today's BCC52 can addresfull 128K of memory~r. The 48K onboard can be RAM or EPROM. --Steve Msg#:15436 *PROJECTS* 03/06/89 10:12:49 From: JEFF BACHIOCHI To: SIMON SABATO (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 15343 (BCC-52) Simon, The schematic is correct! The address 08000H always goes into the AND gate. The other input is selected between 08000H and 0A000H. If 08000H is selected, 08000H goes to both inputs of the AND gate. If 0A000H is selected, 08000H goes to one input and 0A000H goes to the other input of the AND gate. As long as both inputs are HIGH then the output of the gate will be HIGH (1*1=1) If any (in this case only one at a time can be LOW) of the inputs are LOW then the output is LOW (1*0=0 or 0*1=0.) So you can see that we are really interested in the logic LOW (*CS) signals, this is called negative logic.) An AND gate is the same as an OR gate with an inverter on each input and output! Next time your at RADIO SHACK pick up DIGITAL LOGIC CIRCUITS. It's a thin paperback and will only set you back about $2.00. jeff Msg#:15471 *PROJECTS* 03/06/89 22:08:23 From: SIMON SABATO To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 15378 (BCC-52) Oh, how foolish I seem!!! Of course! Negative logic! The outputs of the '138 weren't marked as inverted so I temporarily lost my marbles! Woe be me, I am thus pubicly shamed! MORAL: Re check all logic before crying for help. -Simon Sabato Msg#:15407 *PROJECTS* 03/05/89 23:54:02 From: JAMES O'SULLIVAN To: DAVID BURESS (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 14872 (IMAGEWISE/PC) That sounds interesting, and the price is a lot lower than the comparable digitizers I have seen. Something occurred to me, though. There are a number of relatively inexpensive VCRs on the market that have digital freeze-frame features - I wonder how they do it, and keep the price of the entire VCR under $1000. Well, thanks for the info. Msg#:15916 *PROJECTS* 03/14/89 10:22:46 From: ED NISLEY To: JAMES O'SULLIVAN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 15407 (IMAGEWISE/PC) The "how they keep the total price under $1000" trick is simple: if your production volume is high enough, the parts costs drop to about nothing. For those companies that can't sell 100,000 of an item the prices are significantly higher... Take a look inside a VCR at all the precision mechanics and wonder how they get that built for next to nothing! Next to the metalworking, the RAMs are free! Msg#:15956 *PROJECTS* 03/15/89 08:51:18 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: JAMES O'SULLIVAN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 15407 (IMAGEWISE/PC) Along the same lines, TV manufacturers have these wonderful frame grabbers that sit on a single chip and are what make digital TVs and VCRs possible. The only problem is they won't sell the chips to anyone but TV manufacturers who would use them in the 100,000 quantity range. For those of us who can't do such high volume, we have to settle for somewhat more expensive design alternatives. Besides, the readers of INK would scream murder if we presented an article that contained a frame grabber on a chip. No way to tinker. :-) Msg#:15559 *PROJECTS* 03/08/89 04:38:36 From: HARVEY SIBLEY To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: DDT-51 steve, i am very instered in the ddt-51 in the aug-sep issues of byte. but i need a much more introductry level reference. i want to use the microcontrollers to control very simple things like a 7-seg display for learning purposes. could you pleaer to me something on these micros that is a level or two below the byte arles. I would greatly appriciate this. thank you very much. Msg#:15576 *PROJECTS* 03/08/89 10:56:52 From: STEVE CIARCIA To: HARVEY SIBLEY Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 15559 (DDT-51) There should be a DDT-51 kit announced in the next issue of CC INK. In addition, the new RTC31 (see message #14101) which will be presented at the same time, has a DDT-51 connector which allows the pair to function as a complete development system. There will be some more introductory materials with the DDT-51 kit. --Steve Msg#:15584 *PROJECTS* 03/08/89 13:27:17 From: TOM COOK To: SYSOP (Rcvd) Subj: HAL4 HELLO, I bought a HAL4 kit last year. It is a buetifuly prepaired kit. The directions are clear and the board is layed out very nicely. I assembled it over several weekends. When I did the testing it was on the money (the voltage test). When I put the IC in and pluged it into the computer, nothing happened. I went over the board and found two legs on difrent IC hidding. So I corected that. Still nothing on the PC. When the frustration level got to high I gave it to a frind who was an E teck in the service. He spent several weeks going over the board. He could find nothing wrong with it. Semptioms: The red light does not flicker, there is no siginal going to the PC. Nothing showes up on the screen anyway. About two weeks ago I receved your catalog of kits and in this catalog someone said that Circut celler would not leave one in the learch. I want to get this kit working. Please send me information on your repair service. Thank you. Tom Cook P.O. Box 2548 Reston Va. 22090 phone 703-476-0983 that is not a modem conect line. Thank you. It is a nice kit. Msg#:15635 *PROJECTS* 03/09/89 09:56:48 From: STEVE CIARCIA To: TOM COOK Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 15584 (HAL4) What's to send you? Read the warranty. It says to call CCI for a Return Material Authorization (RMA#) and an address where to send it to. Call 203-875-2751 and ask for Dianne. It is more than a nice kit, it works. Of the many hundreds sold, I don't we've had to repair more than 3 or 4. Even then, the problems were minor. Unless you assembled it with a blowtorch (don't laugh, I've seen it), I would suspect that yours will be fixed easily. In any case, the end result will be an operational HAL-4. Call Dianne. --Steve Msg#:15642 *PROJECTS* 03/09/89 11:55:54 From: JEFF BACHIOCHI To: TOM COOK Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 15584 (HAL4) Tom, Before you spend some bucks, let's try to get it running through the BBS! Give me a run down on what you see. I'll give you a few suggestions. Oh yeah, what kind of trouble shooting equipment do you have? jeff Msg#:15613 *PROJECTS* 03/09/89 01:25:23 From: MICAH PEARLMAN To: ALL Subj: IMAGEWISE I just recently read the article on building ImageWise...and I am very interested but alas I am afraid my technical "expertise" is lacking. I can sorta/mostly understand the schemantic but I dont know what all the parts are that I ne, how exactly I am going to build it (can I use a bread d board?), and just basically how am I going to get the darn thing up and running? Msg#:15653 *PROJECTS* 03/09/89 20:56:31 From: BRIAN REYNOLDS To: ALL Subj: IMAGE WISE ON THE ATARI ST? Hi. I just got the Image Wise digitizer from Micro Mint. The first page of the manual mentions displaying image wise pictures on the Atari ST. Does anyone out there have source code (preferrably C) to do this? I plan to convert the Pascal code to Mark Williams C. Has anyone done this yet? Any pointers to PD code would be helpful. Brian Reynolds ...!sun!gotham!marine!reynolds ...!uunet!dasys1!reynolds Msg#:15749 *PROJECTS* 03/11/89 09:24:37 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: BRIAN REYNOLDS (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 15653 (IMAGE WISE ON THE ATARI ST?) There is some C code posted in the file area here, though not specifically for the Atari. It might be a starting point, though. Msg#:15823 *PROJECTS* 03/12/89 17:06:26 From: ROY GENSCH To: JEFF BACHIOCHI (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 14576 (BCC52) Thanks.I'll try your adviceand check out the socket.Also ,I'll try Steve's advice on the Eprom brands. In autostart, it finds the ram but will not transfer the program. Msg#:15834 *PROJECTS* 03/12/89 21:02:59 From: DAVID MACDONALD To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: DDT-51 BOARD I'm calling again, as you suggested, to see when a DDT-51 board will be available, and how to order it. Thanks. Msg#:15863 *PROJECTS* 03/13/89 09:15:18 From: STEVE CIARCIA To: DAVID MACDONALD (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 15834 (DDT-51 BOARD) This is going to sound like a story but I swear it is the truth. We had the DDT-51 board all ready to go from the PC layout house and they lost the art work! They had to layout the entire board again from scratch! The result is that the DDT-51 is delayed another 6-8 weeks since it also got bumped at the PC fabricator too. C heck with me again in about 4 weeks and I may really have a board. --Steve Msg#:15893 *PROJECTS* 03/13/89 23:08:23 From: RICHARD MURPHY To: JEFF BACHIOCHI (Rcvd) Subj: PROGRAMMING 27512 W/SEPROM PR I'm having troubles programming EPROMS with my serial EPROM programmer. I'm using Version 1.6 (04/10/87) microcode, with 32Kb of onboard RAM. I appears to have problems programming or copying 27512s. I operate in REMOTE mode, reading a prom and attempt to copy it in two steps. When I attempt to program the rom, if I select FAST mode, it immediately comes back with "PROGRAMMING COMPLETE" and "COMPARING EPROM TO RAM BUFFER/COMPARE IS NOT GOOD". If I then compare the RAM buffer to the original EPROM, several locations appear to have changed: 0h, 100h, 200h, and so forth. Slow mode programming fails in the compare phase as well. Is my programmer broken? Is anyone else successfully loading '512s? (I couldn't program 27256 ROMs until I got V1.6; is there a newer version of the code available on this board?) Thanks. -Rick Msg#:15912 *PROJECTS* 03/14/89 08:41:38 From: JEFF BACHIOCHI To: RICHARD MURPHY (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 15893 (PROGRAMMING 27512 W/SEPROM PROG) Richard, V1.6 should do it for you. Since the EPROM is twice as large as the memory available, two passes are needed. The stand-alone mode will keep track of moving the buffer around and prompt for which chip the target or the source should be in the ZIF socket. When in the remote mode, you must read in the '512 (this reads in the first half), program a blank from 0 to 7FFFH. Then change the buffer to 8000H and read in the source again (this time it reads in from 8000H to FFFFH). Program the target from 8000H to FFFFH and you're done! In 'normal program' the SEP will go along merrily programming the whole thing before it checks to see if there are any errors. Whereas, in 'fast programming', it does a byte by byte program and verify stopping immediately on an error! jeff Msg#:15919 *PROJECTS* 03/14/89 13:03:04 From: RICHARD MURPHY To: JEFF BACHIOCHI (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 15912 (PROGRAMMING 27512 W/SEPROM PROG) I've tried both standalone and local in my attempt to program the '512s. I did do the segmentation (read the first half, then try to program it) but failed. It sounds like my programmer might be broken! Msg#:15957 *PROJECTS* 03/15/89 08:55:40 From: JEFF BACHIOCHI To: RICHARD MURPHY (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 15919 (PROGRAMMING 27512 W/SEPROM PROG) Richard, Can you program a 27256? jeff Msg#:15993 *PROJECTS* 03/16/89 11:15:16 From: RICHARD MURPHY To: JEFF BACHIOCHI (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 15957 (PROGRAMMING 27512 W/SEPROM PROG) Ok. At least part of my problem was a broken 8255. I found I couldn't program ANYTHING. After fixing that, I'm able to program 27128s OK and I'll try a 27256 (as soon as it's erased.) However, I still can't program 27512s. Odd thing: one ROM programmed and compared OK, but half an hour later failed the compare. Are there multiple programming voltage levels for the 27512s? Thanks again for all your help so far Jeff. -Rick Msg#:15994 *PROJECTS* 03/16/89 12:30:16 From: JEFF BACHIOCHI To: RICHARD MURPHY (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 15993 (PROGRAMMING 27512 W/SEPROM PROG) Richard, So far I have not seen a 27512 which does not have a 12.5 volt programming parameter. Warning... each manufacturer does not follow any standard! Always obtain a data sheet on any chips coming from a new manufacturer. I've been fooled before! jeff Msg#:16005 *PROJECTS* 03/16/89 23:14:22 From: RICHARD MURPHY To: JEFF BACHIOCHI (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 15893 (PROGRAMMING 27512 W/SEPROM PR) I haven't got any 27256's around to try out. I've been scoping around trying to figure out why it's failing to program the '512s. (again, 27128s go ok, so it's got to be something different between the two types of EPROM. Unfortunately, I don't have any data sheets on the 512s. Here's my question: what's the programming sequence on the 512? That is, where is Vpp going (Pin 22 is at 12.5 volts for me). What other pins are cycled for the 512 during programming? What I'm seeing is that nothing changes: after a slow-mode programming cycle, the prom is still erased; I suspect something funky in the chip select or whatever else enables the programming sequence; if I could figure out what signals *should* be there, I can scope out the problems. Thanks again... -Rick Msg#:16019 *PROJECTS* 03/17/89 09:13:29 From: STEVE CIARCIA To: RICHARD MURPHY (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 16005 (PROGRAMMING 27512 W/SEPROM PR) Jeff is still the best guy to help you but you might try writing some diagnostics to exercise the different sections of the SEP (don't do it with an EPROM in the socket). Remember, the CCSEP processor has a BASIC interpreter in it. Just power the CCSEP up, type control C and RAM (return). This will bump you out of the ROM code into RAM. Then, you can write little BASIC programs to exercise the hardware. One note, virtually all CCSEP problems have been traced to user error or bad 8255s. Check those first. --Steve Msg#:16116 *PROJECTS* 03/19/89 10:46:16 From: RICHARD MURPHY To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 16019 (PROGRAMMING 27512 W/SEPROM PR) The problem I'm having is the fact that I can't find the original article describing the CCSEP. I've ordered a copy of the issue of the unmentionable magazine, but that's going to take several weeks to get here. The User's manual doesn't provide nearly as much detail as to how things work, and reading the BASIC code hasn't been much help. I *did* have a bad 8255 - as things were working fine before, I suspect a power up glitch zapping some chips; I just don't know what voltages are supposed to be where during the programming cycle- once I know that, I'll be able to track down whatever else is bad. I've swapped the 7407s that drive the LM317s with no change. Oh well.. I'll wait on Jeff and try to find another source for the programming details. -Rick Msg#:16127 *PROJECTS* 03/19/89 19:20:16 From: STEVE CIARCIA To: RICHARD MURPHY (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 16116 (PROGRAMMING 27512 W/SEPROM PR) If you can't get your CCSEP kit to work, remember that you can send it to CCI and for a bench charge it will be made 100% functional. To my knowledge, other than HeathKit, CCI is the only company that offers to make kits work or has engineers for you to call. Before you smoke the whole works, you might want to let us fix it. --Steve PS CCI offers reprints on any Circuit Cellar article for $3 if the unmentionable magazine doesn't show. Msg#:16167 *PROJECTS* 03/20/89 13:40:02 From: JEFF BACHIOCHI To: RICHARD MURPHY (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 16005 (PROGRAMMING 27512 W/SEPROM PR) Richard, My HITACHI memory data book indicates: Set up address and data Pin 22 (*OE) to VPP (12.5v) Pin 20 (*CE) pulse low (min=.95ms) VCC is at 6V for programming and a verify is done after each byte. During slow programming verify is not used until all programming is done. Looks like the important pins are 20, 22 & 28. Just a note here, if you didn't know, a dead or damaged EPROM will look like it is erased! jeff Msg#:16171 *PROJECTS* 03/20/89 16:16:26 From: BILL CURLEW To: RICHARD MURPHY (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 15893 (PROGRAMMING 27512 W/SEPROM PR) Hi, I recently had my CCSEPP croak due to a problem with the power supply (not enough gas). I have similar symptoms to your, albeit with 27128's. I ended up having to replace ALL to 8255's to get the beggar working again. Bill Msg#:15933 *PROJECTS* 03/14/89 18:08:35 From: JIM ZEEK To: STEVE AND OTHERS Subj: EPROM/PAL PROGRAMMER Now that I have me eprom programmer working, has anybody done anything in the area of addapting the eprom programmer to program pals? Also anybody have the source code for palasm? Msg#:16350 *PROJECTS* 03/25/89 08:31:40 From: PELLERVO KASKINEN To: JIM ZEEK (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 15933 (EPROM/PAL PROGRAMMER) I think it is generally agreed that while there are many manufacturers of EPROMS, they produce products fairly similar and programmable with the same parameters in many (not all) cases. The story is VERY different for the PALS. Therefore, you can hardly achieve very much by trying to build a low cost universal PAL programmer. Moreover, the PALs typically need a lot more power to program a bit (fuse blowing!) than do the EPROMS. But about the PALASM -- I think National Semiconductor PAL data book contains the complete Fortran source code and some BASIC source as well. Or is it something else? I do not have the source here at home.. Signetics published a schematics and source code for an FPLA programmer. If you are willing to limit to their chips (I doubt it), you might give them a call. -- PJK Msg#:16383 *PROJECTS* 03/26/89 16:08:21 From: JIM NELSON To: JIM ZEEK (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 15933 (EPROM/PAL PROGRAMMER) We went over this topic back in Sept. or Oct, ( or Nov. ) of last year. Do a scan. Msg#:16009 *PROJECTS* 03/17/89 03:00:22 From: FRANK HENRIQUEZ To: ROBERT EUGSTER (Rcvd) Subj: MAC PROGRAM GENERATORS I use Prototyper, mainly to play with windows and menus. It generates good code (C or Pascal) but I usually have to clean it up a bit. Prototyper is a bit like ResEdit, only easier to use and it generates source AND resource info. I like it; for *really* quick jobs, its great. MacApp is really an Object Pascal program that is used to generate other Mac programs. I haven't used it; it's a hassle: 1) You must pay Apple a license fee if you sell the code 2) while most Pascal compilers say that they support MacApp, you still get the best results with MPW...and MPW is not for everyone (you really need a lot of ram...and having a Mac II helps, too). Borland has Turbo Pascal Tutor for the Macintosh; while Borland is not supporting the Mac very well anymore, the TP Tutor is excellent; you may want to look at it for some pointers on how to write Mac programs. Msg#:16094 *PROJECTS* 03/18/89 21:46:43 From: KI SUNG To: ALL Subj: CIRCUIT CELLAR SUPERCOMPUTER CAN ANY BODY TELL ME WHAT ARE THE POSSIBLE & PRACTICAL APPLICATION FOR THE CCS SUPERCOMPUTER AND ITS MANDELBROT SOFTWARE. TO ME, THE ARTICLE ONLY SHOWS HOW IT CAN BE USE TO DRAW THAT SOPHISTICATED PICTURE, MAYBE I AM MISSING THE WHOLE POINT ABOUT THE ARTICLE, BUT IS IT WORTH IT TO SPEND SO MUCH MONEY AND EFFORT TO MAKE THE SUPERCOMPUTER IF ALL IT DOES IS DRAWING THE MANDELBROT PICTURE? I'VE BEEN TO THE WEST COAST COMPUTER FAIRE AT SF AND ASKED THE GUY AT THE BOOT WHO HAPPENED TO DISPLAY THE MANDELBROT SOFTWARE AND HIS ANSWER WAS IT IS FOR FUN. ALL THAT MONEY AND TIME AND HARDWARE JUST TO HAVE FUN. I AM CURIOUS AS HELL!!! ANY BODY HAVE BETTER ANSWER TO THE WHOLE PURPOSE OF THE PROJECT. IF SOMEBODY TELL ME THE REAL PRACTICAL APPLICATION OF THIS SUPERCOMPUTER, I AM WILLING TO SPEND TIME AND MONEY TO MAKE THIS SUPERCOMPUTER FOR SAKE OF OWNING IT AND DO SOME POWERFUL THING WITH IT. BUT NOT FOR JUST DRAWING FANCY MANDELBROT DRAWING ON IT. KI SUNG 3/18 Msg#:16103 *PROJECTS* 03/19/89 00:59:35 From: STEVE SAMPSON To: KI SUNG (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 16094 (CIRCUIT CELLAR SUPERCOMPUTER) What did you do, just arrive in this country? (smile) That's what americans do best! Have fun, spend money, make money... Msg#:16129 *PROJECTS* 03/19/89 19:42:37 From: STEVE CIARCIA To: KI SUNG (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 16094 (CIRCUIT CELLAR SUPERCOMPUTER) All you had to do was ask.... The article was on multiprocessing if you hadn't noticed and ALL Circuit Cellar articles result in something real. To produce something manageable, Ed and I decided to use 8751 microcontrollers in a multiprocessor example ...... note the word EXAMPLE. Since this was also my last BYTE project, we also decided to only spend the 3 months that the project ran in creating it. If I were still writing there, I would have perhaps invested more in it and used whole singleboard computers in the array instead. In understanding the Mandelbrot generator, understand that its purpose was only to show that multiprocessors operating on the same problem solved it faster. Mandelbrot is a finite problem recognizable for its extended calculation time, has a graphical output that is pleasing to view (think pictures) and, a of major interest to many. The generator succeeded on all counts, including blowing away a 386. Now, as far as cost, the Mandelbrot engine was cheaper than most Circuit Cellar projects, believe it or not. The Mandelbrot engine box pictured in the article cost about $8000 to build as a prototype. But unlike most projects which included prototype, PC boards, and production costs, this one was cheap. Finally, if you haven't figured out why I spend $8000 for the Mandelbrot engine, I'll tell you...... I did it for fun! --Steve Msg#:16137 *PROJECTS* 03/20/89 00:03:41 From: KI SUNG To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 16129 (CIRCUIT CELLAR SUPERCOMPUTER) Thank you very much for the reply. I am very thrilled to receive a reply from you. I've been a big fan of Circuit Cellar since 1979. When I heard that you are no longer with the Byte magazine, I was very disappointed, main reason I buy the magazine is to see your article. I am studying to be an electrical engineer at UC Berkeley. Over the years, like many people who read your article, I read all your articles and made dozens of your project. I subscribed to the Circuit Cellar Ink recently. I am gld that I still can enjoy your article and the projects. I, myself, don't mind making computer project for fun even though I spend lots of money in it, but at this time of my life and being a student with limited budget, $8000 for the Supercomputer is too much for me. But someday ...... Thanks, Steve. Ki from California.3/19 Msg#:16138 *PROJECTS* 03/20/89 00:10:37 From: KI SUNG To: STEVE SAMPSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 16103 (CIRCUIT CELLAR SUPERCOMPUTER) Thanks for the reply. I appreciate your thoughts. But wouldn't you say $8000 is bit too much for just having fun. 3/19 Msg#:16155 *PROJECTS* 03/20/89 10:23:22 From: ED NISLEY To: KI SUNG (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 16094 (CIRCUIT CELLAR SUPERCOMPUTER) Two aphorisms apply here: The main difference between a man and a boy is the price of his toys. He who dies with the most toys wins. We've taken a lot of heat from people who point out that the Supercomputer would have been really super if only we had used Their Favorite Processor which is much, much faster than the (admittedly pokey) 8751. The fact that they all missed the point of the articles (multiprocessing) indicates that we didn't do a good enough job explaining why we picked the Mandelbrot Engine as an example of the species. Pity that we can't go back and run a followup article in BYTE to clue 'em all in... One of these days we'll do an array processor with real processors and see where it takes us... Msg#:16180 *PROJECTS* 03/20/89 22:33:07 From: STEVE SAMPSON To: KI SUNG (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 16138 (CIRCUIT CELLAR SUPERCOMPUTER) Yes. Unless I could use it in some other application later on. I think while I didn't buy or build the circuit, that I gained some knowledge in a way that I didn't think of before. I can see it now, a Mandelbrot (sp?) engine, tied to a HAL, tied to a laser scanner, after taking some mind altering substance, or even straight. I'm thinking something legal here (in altering the mind) maybe heavy metal, or country and western with a martini? Msg#:16290 *PROJECTS* 03/23/89 16:29:36 From: ED NISLEY To: STEVE SAMPSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 16180 (CIRCUIT CELLAR SUPERCOMPUTER) A lot of folks fall into that category: "I didn't build it, but now I know how it works!" We try to combine useful information with an interesting project so you come out ahead either way. There's no substitute for actually building something to get the detailed understanding pounded into your skull, but occasionally you'd rather not go through that... and that's OK by us! Msg#:16313 *PROJECTS* 03/24/89 05:29:14 From: KI SUNG To: ED NISLEY (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 16155 (CIRCUIT CELLAR SUPERCOMPUTER) Thanks, Ed. I will be anxious to see that future article. I always dreamed of making one of my own supercomputer, like baby Cray, someday when I have enough experience in electrical engineering field, I then wil be ready to design one. But if someone comes out with similar one, I would be most interested to make it. Again thanks for your thought. Ki from Berkeley California. 3/24 Happy Easter!!! Msg#:16314 *PROJECTS* 03/24/89 05:39:47 From: KI SUNG To: STEVE SAMPSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 16180 (CIRCUIT CELLAR SUPERCOMPUTER) Well, Steve. I think it is beyond my knowledge to attack such project right now. I am more strong on the software side than hardware side. Though I learned lot by building projects in the Byte magazine. You know it sure is nice feeling to call the BBS and find the messages waiting for me. Thanks for the message. Happy Easter!!! Ki from Berkeley CA. 3/24 Msg#:16316 *PROJECTS* 03/24/89 09:21:05 From: STEVE CIARCIA To: KI SUNG (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 16314 (CIRCUIT CELLAR SUPERCOMPUTER) Love keeping people happy :-) Regarding building your own multiprocessor at some point, perhaps even from a CC INK project, it may be your wallet that dictates the ability to build it rather than being an experienced EE. Even with $25 single chip processors, our super computer cost $8000! If we build something with say the new Hitachi H16 or H32, a 64 processor computer could cost in the neighborhood of $100,000! Are you ready? In short, EE experience in building a multiprocessor might have more to do with its value in getting a good paying job so you can afford to even experiment with multiprocessing :-) --Steve Msg#:17226 *PROJECTS* 04/15/89 00:49:30 From: KI SUNG To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 16316 (CIRCUIT CELLAR SUPERCOMPUTER) Well, Steve, that is why I decided to open up my own business in computer field, so I can have money and spare time to do my own research. Not in the beginning, but latter when my business picks up and provide me with enought income. My roommate finished the school and open up his own bio-engineering consulting firm and he is so successful right now he only works about a week in a month and he has all the rest of time to spend doing his own thing, not to mention the income he makes. My God, if I can do that, I will have time and money to spend in my projects. Any way, after I seen him going through his business, that is the only way I will be able to accomplish my dream, which is doing a further research in the computer field. You are right though, about the money. I am spending all my personal expenses plus more in my projects all the time. Most of the time, I am pennyless because of the project I am working on. But it's worth it down to every penny. Oh, by the way, I am working for the company called "Proen Products Co." in Berkeley. We manufacture all types of hose-end sprinkler. We have our patented sprinkler called "Squarespray Sprinkler". It waters the square area evenly. If you are into gardening in any way, I would be more than happy to send you one. Company fringe benefit, you know. Thank you for the thoughtful note. Ki 4/14 Msg#:17267 *PROJECTS* 04/15/89 18:45:37 From: STEVE CIARCIA To: KI SUNG (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 17226 (CIRCUIT CELLAR SUPERCOMPUTER) There are good points and bad points about having your own business. The up side is that you get to do something you want to do and you can potentially make some big bucks (most often you have to sell the business to do that, however). The down side is that starting a business takes lots of money and many people mortgage their sole to start it. Potntially, if it fails, they can go down the tube with it. Regarding the sprinkler, thanks but I don't have a blade of grass. My house is in a natural wood setting surrounded by forest and wood chips. There are lots of gadgets I'd love to have but the lawn stuff will have to wait for a lawn :-) Thanks anyway. --Steve Msg#:16099 *PROJECTS* 03/19/89 00:09:17 From: TOM MOORE To: ALL Subj: THE TWO FACES OF 11110100 While browsing my 1988 edition of Intel's "Embedded Controller Handbook," I seem to have found an itsy-bitsy problem. Both instructions, CLR A and CPL A code to the same 1111 0100. Could somebody please tell me what the codes for the respective instructions are? I'm TRYING to put together a small assembler and that information would be somewhat helpful. By the way, CLR A is on page 9-33, and CPL A is on the next page with their respective encoding. Thanks for any/all help! -tom Msg#:16157 *PROJECTS* 03/20/89 10:33:29 From: ED NISLEY To: TOM MOORE (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 16099 (THE TWO FACES OF 11110100) Squinting at a listing in the '88 Embedded Control Applications book says that CLR A is E4, which should be definitive. Jeff dug a cheat sheet out of his desk that says CLR A is, indeed, E4 and CPL A is F4. Those are the typos that nobody finds until years later... Msg#:16234 *PROJECTS* 03/22/89 00:14:23 From: TOM MOORE To: ED NISLEY (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 16157 (THE TWO FACES OF 11110100) Ed, thanks much - that info should help a 'bit' -Tom Msg#:16239 *PROJECTS* 03/22/89 08:12:45 From: PAUL KINDELL To: ALL Subj: DDT-51 I JUST FINISHED BUILDING THE DDT-51 AND HAVE JUST DOWNLOADED ALL THE MESSAGES ABOUT IT. I HAVE BEEN WRITEING CODE FOR THE 8031 NOW FOR ABOUT 2 YEARS AND IT LOOKS LIKE THIS IS JUST WHAT I NEED TO HELP DEBUG THE CODE. I HAVE BEEN WORKING ON A REPEATER CONTROLLER FOR AMATUER RADIO AND HAVE ALSO DESIGNED A SCORE BOARD FOR (CAR) RACE TRACKES ALL BASED ON THE 8031. LOOKING FORWARD TO ALL THE PROJECTS USING THE DEVICE. PAUL Msg#:16280 *PROJECTS* 03/23/89 11:09:05 From: STEVE CIARCIA To: PAUL KINDELL (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 16239 (DDT-51) Take a look at message 14101. For a DDT-51 user, it is a must. --Steve Msg#:16291 *PROJECTS* 03/23/89 16:30:26 From: ED NISLEY To: PAUL KINDELL (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 16239 (DDT-51) Welcome to the club! If you run into problems, we're right behind your CRT... Msg#:16250 *PROJECTS* 03/22/89 11:09:28 From: PAUL MILLER To: KEN DAVIDSON (Rcvd) Subj: SMARTSPOOLER I have completed the smartspooler some time ago and the processor seems quite solid. I have added my own i/o board which at present has 6 ports, x10 and a/d on it.Everthing works fine with my small asm test programs but when i load a larger program with host mode load the processor goes off to pick a daisy or two. What seems to happen is that code is loaded from 4000h - 40fbh then nothing untill 4118h.It tried to store that piece of code at 3ffc.It did the same again at 41f8h-4213h where there was nothing stored and it put that code at 40f8h. Any ideas that you may have would be greatly appreciated and then I might be able to get a little more sleep. regards Paul Miller Msg#:16402 *PROJECTS* 03/27/89 08:52:29 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: PAUL MILLER (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 16250 (SMARTSPOOLER) I'll pass your information along to the person who did the programming for the SmartSpooler, but nobody has ever had this problem in the ten months or so that the spooler has been shipping, so I don't know what you might be seeing. Let me know if anything new shows up. Msg#:16508 *PROJECTS* 03/28/89 16:33:55 From: PAUL MILLER To: KEN DAVIDSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 16402 (SMARTSPOOLER) I hope someone can see something. All hardware seems to check out ok,as far as I can tell . I will do some more checking to see if I can find any more info. Thanks for the help Paul Miller Msg#:16463 *PROJECTS* 03/28/89 02:21:29 From: STEVE DUNCAN To: JEFF BACHIOCHI (Rcvd) Subj: BCC-52 HELP Help! We are trying to program a BCC-52 in basic, and are having a BIG problem! We can't seem to figure out how to get strings to work. Any suggestions? S. Duncan Msg#:16501 *PROJECTS* 03/28/89 11:15:03 From: JEFF BACHIOCHI To: STEVE DUNCAN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 16463 (BCC-52 HELP) Steve, MCS-BASIC allows 255 different string $(0)-$(254). Read Chapter 6 in the MCS-BASIC manual for string operators. The STRING (expr),(expr) statement allocates memory for strings. This calculation is a bit awkward! The second expression is the maximum number of byte in any string. The first expression is the second expression plus 1 times the number of strings (remember 0 counts as 1) plus 1 for good luck. See the statement: STRING (expr),(expr) in the MCS-BASIC manual for an unclear definition. jeff Msg#:16585 *PROJECTS* 03/30/89 09:56:40 From: ERIK C. VAN BORK To: ALL Subj: BCC180 TIMING I am using a BCC180 with BASIC180 for an industrial control project. My application requires precise timing between events. As my events can occur at 5ms intervals, a 1ms timer would be preferable. I have considered counting 'tics' but the 16.7ms interval is too long without slowing down my process. Is there any addressable system clock? Is there anything on the BUSS that I could use? Any comments on this subject would be appreciated. Thank you. --> Erik Msg#:16607 *PROJECTS* 03/31/89 08:36:58 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: ERIK C. VAN BORK (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 16585 (BCC180 TIMING) I seriously doubt you're going to be able to do such precise timing in BASIC. There is just too much overhead associated with the multitasking for it to be precise. The HD64180 has two counter/timers on board that you can set up to interrupt at just about any interval you want. It is very easy to set up a machine language program to be invoked once every 1 ms or 5 ms triggered by one of the timers. See the Hitachi HD64180 manual for more details about the timers. Msg#:16658 *PROJECTS* 04/02/89 05:47:01 From: SIMON SABATO To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: PRIMITIVE EPROM PROGRAMMER Steve- After slaving over iron and board, I finally completed the "Primitive" EPROM programmer from Circuit Celler VOLUME VI. I turned it on, and yes, a green LED. Wait... two!. The other LED (read) came on and didn't go out. If there is any way you can give me a hint from my diagnosis - here goes: There is a clock pulse to the UART. There is also a low (that's active) on both the TDS and RDAR lines. There is no RDA when a character is sent or any other sign of life. A question: would the two low signals inhibit the UART from recieving data (therefore not clocking the LS175 - and leaving the programmer dead)? Why did you use a 74LS175 instead of a decade counter? (Probably a stupid question. ) My gut instinct says that something is mismatched with the clock signal so the UART is not accepting any of the ASCII pulse trains it recieving (it does recieve them). Therefore, no clocking is taking place, and the second LED remains lit. How tolerant is the method you use of Baud rate generation? would a generator chip help solve the problem? -Simon Sabato Msg#:16683 *PROJECTS* 04/02/89 19:04:25 From: STEVE CIARCIA To: SIMON SABATO Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 16658 (PRIMITIVE EPROM PROGRAMMER) Many people have successfully built the "primative" programmer in Vol IV so I would presume it has to be builder error. There was a schematic error in the original magazine but it was fixed in the book. Also, my inexpensive baud rate generator produces EXACTLY the correct frequencies. Better keep looking :-) --Steve Msg#:16659 *PROJECTS* 04/02/89 09:29:31 From: FRANK BULLOCK To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 14048 (HCS01) Thanks for the prompt reply. I appreciate the information you provided about the developing system. As you can see, I have not logged-on for over a month. It's good to be back and follow the action. Since my new house is still under design, waiting for the RCT31/RTC52 controllers or the BCC 180 system causes no delay problems for me. I eagerly await the March issue of "CC Ink" and first report of the new system. Leo Taylor posted message number 14768/69 to me explaining his modification of the power supply of the HCS system. I congratulate him for the modification and the offer to share with me. However, I will wait to see price and enhanced benefits of the new system. See my message about subscription concern. Again, my personal thanks to you and the entire support team for dedication to creativity and experimentation in the electronic industry. Your sharing so unselfishly at no cost, modest or reasonable cost, is unusual today. I am sure you inspire many budding engineers to seek new heights and greater challenges. Both society and you benefit through technological advances and a broader economic base. I wish Apple Computer, IBM, and Microsoft could take lessons from you. A change is needed soon if we (US of A) are to compete in the world marketplace in the last industry we developed, the information industry. I vote my disapproval of their operational/management style by recommending or purchasing their products as last resort. We know they continue in their attempt to close competition, the same open market system which gave birth to their products and success - creativity and experimentation by basement and garage tinkerers. />/> fdb <\<\ Msg#:16671 *PROJECTS* 04/02/89 12:29:47 From: DAVID GILMER To: JEFF BACHIOCHI (Rcvd) Subj: HAL4 - HELP I am assembling the HAL4 kit and have a question concerning the orientation of the tantalum capacitors. I have built a number of kits over the years but can't remember ever running into this problem... The problem being that the +(plus) sign on the cap. is directly in the middle between the two leads... Some of the caps do have what looks like an upside down L pointing toward one lead and I would quess that this is probably the minus lead of the capacitor... Can anyone offer some insight????? Msg#:16716 *PROJECTS* 04/03/89 08:31:05 From: JEFF BACHIOCHI To: DAVID GILMER (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 16671 (HAL4 - HELP) David, As you realize, making a polarity error with tantalums can lead to explosive results! The caps in question used on the HAL come in 2 varieties, with and without a stripe. Both have 2 lines of informations. The first line contains the value i.e. 335 (3300000 pfd or 3.3 ufd). The second line contains the max DC voltage i.e. +15 followed sometimes by a letter which indicates tolerance. The tolerance, since each manufacturer uses a different designation, must be determined from the 'key' in the manufacturers specs. The lead closest to the voltage value is the positive lead. The stripe, when used, indicates the positive lead. jeff Msg#:16759 *PROJECTS* 04/04/89 00:08:57 From: DAVID GILMER To: JEFF BACHIOCHI (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 16716 (HAL4 - HELP) Thanks Jeff. dg Msg#:16749 *PROJECTS* 04/03/89 21:08:50 From: STEVE CIARCIA To: JEAN DELISLE (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 16715 (8031 & 8052) One other option is to use the BCC52 with the 80C52-BASIC just the way it is. BASIC is its own monitor! You can upload and download using it as well as run BASIC or assembly language programs. Worst case you write a little bootstrap routine in ROM that dounloads code to RAM and then jumps to execute it. Why reinvent the wheel? --Steve Msg#:16762 *PROJECTS* 04/04/89 01:50:21 From: TOM MOORE To: ED NISLEY (Rcvd) Subj: 8051 MEMORY Ed, since you're the resident wiz on the 8051, etc, I thought I might ask you a question. I'm interested in combining the data and program areas onto one 2Kx8 SRAM. That is, I am executing from external memory all the time, and want to use the SRAM as both program memory and storage (I know you can READ from external program memory). From what I can see, would not connecting an AND gate between the inputs of /PSEN and /RD to the output of /OE (on the SRAM) combine the read functions for both program reads and external? Thanks for any/all help! Msg#:16770 *PROJECTS* 04/04/89 09:25:43 From: ED NISLEY To: TOM MOORE (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 16762 (8051 MEMORY) Bingo! Right the first time! One side effect is that you can now use both MOVC and MOVX instructions to pluck data from the RAM, depending on your mood. The MOVC ones force you to use A as an index whether you want to or not, so you might want to cook up a macro to always do a CLR A before the MOVC. The DDT51 stuff will work with separate code and data spaces for the memory starting at 0000, but must have combined spaces in the Debug RAM at 8000. This is handled in the DDT51 hardware, but is worth knowing if you plan to both use DDT51 and try something tricky. What'cha doing? Msg#:16798 *PROJECTS* 04/05/89 00:58:08 From: TOM MOORE To: ED NISLEY (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 16770 (8051 MEMORY) Whew! Ed, thanks for the info! Currently I am trying to build a mini MCS-51 (8051 and 8052 at the moment) development module. Programming and reprogramming EPROMs and the time it takes to do so for me wasn't how I wanted to spend my time. Still, the dual function of the SRAM saved me the expense of both an EPROM and a SRAM in the system. I'm interested in connecting multiple 8051/2's (chosen over the 8031/etc because I get them cheaper!) into a small, say, 8 processor system; I plan to experiment with multicomputing and parallel systems. What I find neat is that the cost of a node will be somewhere under $10 each - well within my hacker budget! Still, ever since seeing Steve's articles in Byte covering the 8031 and the like, I've found so many pieces of hardware that now will be so simple to finish (previously requiring many discrete components), and having far more functionality. I've always liked control over what I build. :) If you're interested I'll keep ya up-to-date on what goes! Msg#:16818 *PROJECTS* 04/05/89 09:27:15 From: ED NISLEY To: TOM MOORE (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 16798 (8051 MEMORY) Even better, write up some articles for INK! Msg#:16898 *PROJECTS* 04/07/89 12:01:01 From: STEVE CIARCIA To: TOM MOORE (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 16798 (8051 MEMORY) Tom, take a look at message 14401 (or was it 14101?). --Steve Msg#:16775 *PROJECTS* 04/04/89 11:50:16 From: BILL RICHARDS To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: MASTER CONTROLLER Dear Steve, Talk about procrastination!!! When you introduced the Master Controller, I said I was going to build it. But, as fate would have it, I was in the middle of a sabbatical semester completing work on my doctoral degree and everyone knows how much money graduate students have stuffed in their mattress! SO, I told myself it would have to wait. Well, now I'm back on my feet again and promise never to do the "P"-word again! (I have been in contact with M. Voorhees about utilizing his project in the engineering, geographic, and atmospheric sciences area where I teach.) My question is this : Is it possible that there remains any of the Master Controller experimenter's kit?? Or possibly two? If not the entire kit, how about the EPROM? (Our elect. eng. students could do the rest, really, except this close to the end of the semester their motivation level is in the sewer.) I am anxious to hear your respons and thanks in advance, Bill. Msg#:16893 *PROJECTS* 04/07/89 11:27:51 From: STEVE CIARCIA To: BILL RICHARDS (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 16775 (MASTER CONTROLLER) Give CCI a call (203-875-2751). While the Master controller kit is not advertised, experimenter kits and a few other parts are available. Ask for Diane. --Steve Msg#:16941 *PROJECTS* 04/08/89 16:13:42 From: SANDY HARRIS To: JEFF BACHIOCHI (Rcvd) Subj: OLD CIARCIA PC-COMPATIBL I have an old Micromint something-16, 256K PC-compatible built from a kit based on a Ciarcia BYte article series years back. Worked well at the time, now gathering dust since I have a faster machine. Is there any way to install larger floppies? It would be a lot more useful with 1.2 or 1.4 M. Or is there a way to add a hard drive Msg#:17002 *PROJECTS* 04/10/89 08:52:28 From: JEFF BACHIOCHI To: SANDY HARRIS (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 16941 (OLD CIARCIA PC-COMPATIBL) Sandy, With the prices as low as they are now-a-days, I wouldn't put any more bucks into the MPX-16. As an input (word processor) device, the MPX is OK. Don't try making more, it just wasn't designed for that. You are one of the smart ones who put it on the shelf after it was working! Trouble-shooting a dead MPX is not fun, in fact, the RAM chips are probably worth more now then when they were originally purchased! jeff Msg#:16967 *PROJECTS* 04/08/89 23:04:06 From: GORDON LECKENBY To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: HAL I'm interested finally in building your H.A.L. E.E.G. monitor. I have the back issues of Byte that hdescribe it but would rather get the kit from you if it is still available. Is it ? Also I really miss seeing your work in byte. I feel that you and I have been together a long time. I read every article you wrote since the very beginning. Msg#:17009 *PROJECTS* 04/10/89 09:58:27 From: STEVE CIARCIA To: GORDON LECKENBY Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 16967 (HAL) If you like the kind of stuff I was publishing in BYTE you should now be reading Circuit Cellar INK (see main menu). You can continue "our" relationship by joining me there :-) Yes, HAL is alive and well and selling like mad. Give CCI a call (203-875-2751) for pricing and delivery. --Steve Msg#:17069 *PROJECTS* 04/11/89 18:23:32 From: RICK WILLIAMS To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: SB180 AUX.SERIAL PORT I am having a problem with the following configuration .... o SB180 o NO device (or cable) connected to SB180's Aux.Serial port o HD64180 programmed to operate the Aux.Serial port in interrupt driven mode (both recevice and transmit) In this configuration, the HD64180 appears to receive a continuous stream of interrupts from ASCI Channel 0 (Aux.Serial Port). I have programmed ASCI Channel 0 as follows ... CntlA0 <= 064H CntlB0 <= 024H Stat0 <= 009H In my interrupt service routine, I perform the following steps ... o Read Stat0 twice (as suggested by Hitachi) o Read CntlA0 once o Write CntlA0 once with data read in previous step, except forcing an Error Flag Reset o Read CntlB0 once o Read TDR0 once o Read RDR0 once Is the SB180/HD64180 supposed to generate continuous interrupts with nothing connected to the Aux.Serial port ? Or do I have it configured wrong ? Or am I servicing the interrupt wrong ? I am new to this BBS, so if you are not the correct person to ask these questions, please send me the name of the appropriate person. Thanks, Rick Williams Msg#:17104 *PROJECTS* 04/12/89 09:03:03 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: RICK WILLIAMS (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 17069 (SB180 AUX.SERIAL PORT) If you had enabled just the receive interrupts and were getting a continuous stream of interrupts, then I'd say something is wrong. But when you enable the transmit interrupt and don't send any data, then you're going to get a continuous stream of interrupts. What the transmit interrupt is telling you is that the transmit buffer is empty. If you don't send a character out when you service the interrupt, you're just going to get another interrupt telling you that the buffer is still empty. Unless you have a full buffer of data to send out, don't enable the transmit interrupt until you're ready to use it. Msg#:17091 *PROJECTS* 04/12/89 02:32:02 From: WALTER GEORGE To: HAL-4 USERS Subj: HAL-4 ENHANCEMENTS Is anyone familiar with any enhancements to the Hal-4, including the ability y of y y[Cy[By y of the user of Hal-4 to receive sound input reflecting the amount of alpha, or or the ability to draw maps of selected brain wave activity ? Replies to Walter George on this bulletin board. Thank you. Msg#:17111 *PROJECTS* 04/12/89 10:40:01 From: RICK WILLIAMS To: KEN DAVIDSON (Rcvd) Subj: SB180 AUX.SERIAL PORT I tried disabling transmit interrupts for HD64180 ASCI channel 0, but I still get a continuous stream of interrupts. The value read from Stat0 (for both the first and second reads) during my interrupt service routine is 00CH. This same value is read during all of the continuous interrupts (I buffer 5000 of them). I feel the problem has something to do with the fact that the HD64180 automatically disables the receive side of the ASCI channel 0 if ~DCD0 is not asserted. If I assert ~RTS0 on ASCI channel 0, then loop the SB180's Aux.Serial Port pin 4 (RTS/DTR) back to pin 8 (DCD), the continuous stream of interrupts stop. As soon as I remove this loop back, or un-assert ~RTS0, the interrupts start again. Hitachi states that an interrupt should be generated only by the TRANSITION from asserted to not asserted for the ~DCD0 signal. Could it be that this is really a level triggered interrupt instead of an edge triggered interrupt ? Or am I somehow failing to clear the first interrupt request, and it is re-requesting, and re-requesting... Msg#:17140 *PROJECTS* 04/13/89 08:48:59 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: RICK WILLIAMS (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 17111 (SB180 AUX.SERIAL PORT) Please use the eply command when replying to a message rather than entering a whole new message. Threads become extremely fragmented when they aren't tied together somehow. To my knowledge, the only edge-sensitive interrupt on the HD64180 is NMI. I know that INT0, INT1, and INT2 are level sensitive and am almost positive all the internal interrupts are as well. It sounds like you've solved your own problem, but don't want to accept the solution. The DCD0\ input should *always* be tied to something, whether it's a controllable handshaking line or just to ground. You've already found that when it's pulled low, everything works. Msg#:17134 *PROJECTS* 04/13/89 01:15:03 From: JOHN HASKEY To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: MASTER CONTROLLER Hi, I just finished assmebling my MC and powered it up. All I got on the display was one line of solid characters... Any hints??? Msg#:17139 *PROJECTS* 04/13/89 08:40:18 From: JEFF BACHIOCHI To: JOHN HASKEY (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 17134 (MASTER CONTROLLER) John, A couple of things come to mind. First make sure you are using a 12MHz crystal. Second measure VCC on the chips if you are using regular batteries they don't last long in constant duty. I suggest using 5 cells instead of 4. Third, check the ALE line it should be running about 2Mhz. Lastly, clean the flux off the board and look closely for solder bridges. Use an ohm-meter to determine if any traces are shorted to an adjacent trace or open circuit. If all is lost, CCI kits can be sent in for repair. Check the warranty page of the manual for information! jeff Msg#:17168 *PROJECTS* 04/14/89 02:45:42 From: JOHN HASKEY To: JEFF BACHIOCHI (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 17139 (MASTER CONTROLLER) Will check those things out... tried the obvious stuff like solder bridges, etc. Will continue debugging... Not very satisfying to send it back east some where to make it go.... Msg#:17137 *PROJECTS* 04/13/89 07:50:39 From: PATRICK MASLEN To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: BYTE CIRCUIT CELLAR SEPT 1986 Are the complete component kits still available for the data encryptor project including power supply and enclosure? If so what is the current pricing and where do I send my order? What feedback have you received on the security of the data encryption algorithm? Msg#:17188 *PROJECTS* 04/14/89 11:16:46 From: STEVE CIARCIA To: PATRICK MASLEN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 17137 (BYTE CIRCUIT CELLAR SEPT 1986) The encryptor electronics worked perfectly but because so many armchair software hacks complained that the encryption algorithm could be broken by a CRAY in mere seconds (they missed the point of the use of the electronics and focused entirely on the softwere it used), I decided that it wasn't worth getting involved with these people and the kit was pulled off the marked in less than a week of its introduction. If you had ordered it during that week you received the kit and then later you received a full refund (keep the kit as a gift, our appologies that the software wasn't as bullet proof as described, and finally that the product no longer existed as far as we were concerned). Somewhere out there a hundred or so encryptors are floating around but it has not been sold since that first week. The encryptor software is still on the CC INK BBS so you could still build the encryptor as described. However, if you are trying to hide data from the eyes of the NSA with this thing, forget it :-) --Steve Msg#:17150 *PROJECTS* 04/13/89 20:40:09 From: RON MENELLI To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: EPROM PROGRAMMER QUESTIONS I recently bought the CCSEP experimenter's kit, and I have a few questions about it. I saw no mention of J3 or J4 in the manual. What are they for??? Also, I've had problems getting two parts. Is the 150uH choke only available through CCI? And Although the parts list says so, Jameco and JDR Microdevices catalogs say that they do not carry any .22 ohm 1/2 watt resistors. Where else (aside from Mouser Electronics, since they have a minimum order and I don't need to buy anything else) can I get one from? Does CCI sell them? Thanks for your help, Ron Msg#:17187 *PROJECTS* 04/14/89 11:03:18 From: STEVE CIARCIA To: RON MENELLI (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 17150 (EPROM PROGRAMMER QUESTIONS) I don't have a manual at hand but let me try (Jeff will correct me if I'm wrong). First of all, realize that while you are only building a board level kit, the CCSEP can be assembled into a completely enclosed programmer. J3 and J4 are for mounting the front panel board on the enclosed system. The signals on those connectors are for the LED, pushbuttons and ZIF. The latest CC INK uses the same 150 uH choke again and I referenced Miller Coils directly as a source. If they will not sell it to you, then it is available for $7 post paid from CCI. While CCI discourages supplying ones and twoes on discretes (that's the reason for full kits), add another $1 and request the resistors with your order. --Steve Msg#:17206 *PROJECTS* 04/14/89 14:50:46 From: JEFF BACHIOCHI To: RON MENELLI (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 17150 (EPROM PROGRAMMER QUESTIONS) Ron, Steve's got it right! jeff Msg#:17227 *PROJECTS* 04/15/89 00:57:23 From: JOHN HASKEY To: JEFF BACHIOCHI (Rcvd) Subj: MASTER CONTROLLER Searched through all master controller messages and saw the one about the bad resistor network. Sure enough, the part number called out in the parts list seems to be incorrect. Pulled it off the card and cobbled up a replacement and the controller now powers up normally. Now on to the testing..... Msg#:17276 *PROJECTS* 04/15/89 19:48:21 From: JOHN HASKEY To: JEFF BACHIOCHI (Rcvd) Subj: MASTER CONTROLLER AGAIN hi... got the thing cabled up to my pc. when i try to download a menu, it says: PC Link is active. Waiting. and then a moment later it says link timeout error! length is 0(dec). What exactly does this mean and what does it imply???? thanks in advance. Msg#:17379 *PROJECTS* 04/17/89 10:53:10 From: JEFF BACHIOCHI To: JOHN HASKEY (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 17276 (MASTER CONTROLLER AGAIN) John, If you have an active link but a timeout error then it sounds as if at least 1/2 of the link is operational. Since the PC is receiving something from the master controller it indicates an active link. When the PC doesn't receive an intelligible response to its inquiry, a timeout error is displayed. This can be due to a bad transmit line to the master controller (since we are assuming the other half is good because of an 'active link') or a data rate error from using the wrong Xtal. 12.000 MHz is the correct Xtal value. As ED mentioned, a scope will help answer many questions! jeff Msg#:17421 *PROJECTS* 04/18/89 01:40:44 From: JOHN HASKEY To: JEFF BACHIOCHI (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 17379 (MASTER CONTROLLER AGAIN) The thing that confuses me is this: If the PC sees the DLE's and sends out an EQN ( which it does) that implies that the link from the remote is working ( else the PC wouldn't see the DLE's). If the link to the remote were busted, could it detect the fact that the PC were trying to talk to it??? The remote is giving a timeout message. The PC is getting timeout messages... every one is timing out... I'll press on.. this is fun in a perverse sort of way.... Msg#:17463 *PROJECTS* 04/18/89 11:59:21 From: TIMOTHY TAYLOR To: JOHN HASKEY (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 17276 (MASTER CONTROLLER AGAIN) John, I went thru the same sort of problems you are going through now about a year or so ago. I think I was the guy who posted the message about the resistor pack. Anyway, in my trials and tribulations in trying to get the pc to talk to the MC I found a couple of things that may help. First, although the MC's baud rate is around 10,000 somthing, 9600 baud seems to work fine for me if I use crosstalk or mirror to try to talk to the MC. Secondly, whenever the I sent a command to the MC from the PC, I would get the same sort of messages you got plus some message length errors. What I did to clear this up (if I remember correctly without digging up my old doc's) was to insert a delay of 100 ms between each charactor sent from the PC to the MC. I'm not sure exactly why this worked, but after many days of trial and error, this is what I found to work most reliably. I use the MC quite often and have found it to be most reliable. I've put together a little custom code to control a vcr remotely. I typically only need to scroll thru the different commands, then do the press key command. Let me know if I can be of any further help. I'll dig up my old notes if need be. Msg#:17485 *PROJECTS* 04/18/89 18:51:23 From: JOHN HASKEY To: TIMOTHY TAYLOR (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 17463 (MASTER CONTROLLER AGAIN) Thanks for your comments.... The more input on this subject the better!! Msg#:17285 *PROJECTS* 04/15/89 21:06:56 From: STEPHAN COOK To: EDWARD WOOD (Rcvd) Subj: ELECTRONIC COMPASS ir, I realize that you left your message about the schematics for an electronic compass over 3/4ths a year ago but if your still offering I'd like a copy. My address is as follows: Stephan H. Cook 7401 Starr Street Lincoln, NE 68505 If you tired of kicking out the cost for postage I'll gladly pay you the amount for packaging. (That is, of course, assuming that you don't send three or for pages inside of 6'x10'x20' packing crate) Sincerely, Stephan H. Cook Msg#:17297 *PROJECTS* 04/16/89 00:06:17 From: EDWARD WOOD To: STEPHAN COOK (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 17285 (ELECTRONIC COMPASS) I'll see if I can find the schematic and photocopy it for you at the university on Monday. Don't worry about the cost of postage. Msg#:17385 *PROJECTS* 04/17/89 11:32:27 From: JEFF BACHIOCHI To: GARY LEAR (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 17350 (RTC11) Gary, Nothing is cast in stone or is that glass (?) yet. I suspect the A/D (internal) will be available at the screw terminals on the processor board. The I/O structure will remain compatible with the I/O and Proto boards adding additional A/D. The EVM is in transit to me so I don't know anything about its connectors at this point. Feel free to make any comments! jeff Msg#:17427 *PROJECTS* 04/18/89 04:43:33 From: GARY LEAR To: JEFF BACHIOCHI (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 17385 (RTC11) Jeff, I already have an EVM. I am told that they are pretty scarce right now, so if you need me to copy some of the connector data, etc. just let me know. Also, please read my response to Steve. I would like to talk to you about some of this if you have time. Thanks. --Regards, Gary P.S. I would *really* like to use this board in some of the early prototyping stages for my consulting business. I will therefore be delighted to assist in any way that you think I would be useful. Msg#:17438 *PROJECTS* 04/18/89 08:03:54 From: JEFF BACHIOCHI To: GARY LEAR (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 17427 (RTC11) Gary, I'm suppose to have that board today, if its not on a truck headed toward kalamazoo. I will keep you informed. Thanks for your offer of assistance, I'm sure there will be questions. I see the MOT BBS has lots of goodies for this processor. Have you used any? jeff Msg#:17494 *PROJECTS* 04/19/89 04:30:50 From: GARY LEAR To: JEFF BACHIOCHI (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 17438 (RTC11) Jeff, yes I have used a few of the Moto BBS offerings. I looked at using their FFT algorithm for my upcoming telephone interface article. With luck (and assuming I am not hit by a truck! :-) ) my article will use a modified cross-correlator method instead. But, time is getting short! Let me know if, and when, you want my two cents worth. --Gary Msg#:17448 *PROJECTS* 04/18/89 09:06:34 From: PATRICK MASLEN To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: THANKS FOR THE RESPONSE Thank you for the response to my inquiry regarding the data encryptor. I guess I'll still buy the parts and wire it up on a prototyping board; not as neat but just as functional. I'm sorry to hear that the algorithum can be broken by Cray computers at the NSA. I'm sure some one is going to pay for Cray CPU Units at $25,000 an hour to read my data base files. Thanks again and Circuit Cellar is the first thing I look at when Byte arrives each month---solder on!!!!! Msg#:17458 *PROJECTS* 04/18/89 11:12:45 From: STEVE CIARCIA To: PATRICK MASLEN Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 17448 (THANKS FOR THE RESPONSE) I guess you haven't been reading BYTE too closely lately because I haven't been in BYTE since last December and I am no longer there. The only place to find me these days is in Circuit Cellar INK Journal (see main menu to subscribe). --Steve Msg#:17488 *PROJECTS* 04/18/89 22:37:29 From: JOSH SHIPSEY To: SYSOP (Rcvd) Subj: SUPERCOMPUTER SCHEMATICS I am working on a senior project at Texas A&M University and would be interested in using the parallel processing boards discussed in late '88. I would also like to avoid laying out the board, especially considering that it has already been done and the article said it took 250 hours of profesional engineering time to make the boards. Any help here would be great. I would like to spend the summer working with the system before I jump into the project, so any information would be great. Thanks. Josh Shipsey Msg#:17505 *PROJECTS* 04/19/89 08:48:40 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: JOSH SHIPSEY Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 17488 (SUPERCOMPUTER SCHEMATICS) All the information we have is in those articles. A PC board was never made, so if you want to build a unit, it will have to be by hand (and will probably take you all summer). While it's probably no consolation, Steve has said he's willing to part with the original unit for around $8000. He'll even pay for shipping. :-) Msg#:17532 *PROJECTS* 04/19/89 16:00:28 From: ED NISLEY To: JOSH SHIPSEY Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 17488 (SUPERCOMPUTER SCHEMATICS) Merrill & John, who wound up translating the schematics into something that could be wired up (and then doing the wiring!), didn't speak to us for about a week afterwards. But, credit where credit is due, we populated the boards, stuffed 'em into the box, loaded the code up on the PC, and every one of those hand-wired boards worked the first time! Not bad, huh? You can probably build one board a day after you get the first one figured out; they're all the same except for the "master" board with the RS-232 level converters. Merrill figured out a sneaky way to jumper the signals on the back panel so that we could have less than a full rack and still get results back; you may want to do the same. Although we do refer to it as a Supercomputer, the fact of the matter is that we've taken some heat from people because it doesn't run rings around a hyperthyroid PC. Remember that it's a working demonstration for a 3-part article series on parallel computing, built out of readily available parts, and ready for experimentation by anyone who's interested in the "how does it work" end of the business (rather than the "mine is bigger than yours" theory of performance evaluation) and you'll have a good time. If you're actually going to build the thing you'll probably want to revise the DRIVER code that runs on the AT. It's pretty picky about requiring an IBM compatible EGA card; you could rip most of the display code out and not lose much function. Have at it! Msg#:17586 *PROJECTS* 04/21/89 03:05:56 From: LES DOMBOROCZKY To: ED NISLEY (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 13280 (DDT-51) Sorry for getting bent out of shape. I took the plunge and bought a Cross Assembler from a local outfit that is a clone of the Avocet. With all the dedication you guys have been giving to the '51 family it seemed the easiest way to go. Thanks for the understanding. Msg#:17588 *PROJECTS* 04/21/89 08:52:45 From: ED NISLEY To: LES DOMBOROCZKY (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 17586 (DDT-51) "Bent out of shape" ? Come now, is there anyone reading this who hasn't been a complete, utter fool in print (well, glowing characters) once in a while? Is your assembler close enough to Avocet's that it'll eat the same source files? I recently fiddled around with a "dusty deck" of '52 code and had to make a bunch of nit changes to labels and suchlike; not difficult, but it was a bother (almost as much fun as converting Avocet to PseudoSAM, which I did for the new version of the DDT51 kernel). As they say in DDJ... "support your right to assembly!" Msg#:17671 *PROJECTS* 04/23/89 15:45:20 From: MARK DAHMKE To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: HCS 2 SPECS Proposed Specs for HCS2 Mark Dahmke 4/23/89 The HCS2 would be based on the BCC180 with RTC networked processors attached via RS-485 at 19,200bps. The BCC180 would be used as a multitasking server where tasks would be set up to monitor inputs, control outputs, execute user-defined IF-THEN logic, communicate with the network, and communicate with the user. The HCS2 system should be controllable/programmable from a serial console on the BCC180 or from an RS-232 interface to a PC. User-defined code, control logic, and sensor I/O configuration could be downloaded from a PC into the BCC180 and optionally from the BCC180 into any RTC. The RTC networking firmware should be designed for remote bootstrap; that is, when an RTC processor resets, it should send a network request to determine if it should receive object code from the BCC180 host. This process should be automatic at the BCC180 so that if an RTC is reset, the code appropriate for that RTC should be present in the BCC180 and automatically reloaded into the RTC and initialized. The BCC180 and all RTCs and sensors should be powered via battery-backed, continuously charged gel-cells with a capacity for one hour of operation. At the user's discretion, the extent of battery backup can be limited to just the BCC180, to the BCC180 and RTC processors, or to all processors and sensors. With good error recovery and automatic reload of slave processors, universal battery backup may not be required. Ideally, the RS-485 network should have the option of being fiber- optic based, to reduce RF and EMI problems. Other requirements would include the potential integration of the AV/MUX and remote control IR features previously described in CCI and BYTE, although for my personal system I don't need this capability yet (but I'm sure it's on Steve's wish list). ----------------- For my personal HCS2 system, I envision a network with a BCC180, BCC X-10 card, and battery backed supply in my utility room. Two or three RTC processors will be distributed in the house; one will collect data from sensors at the far end of the house, one will handle all outdoor sensors and at least one will act as a wall-mounted LCD/keyboard controller. The purpose of this display controller will be to act as a bedroom status display with at least 40x2 or 20x4 LCD and small alphanumeric keypad allowing me to display status and enter commands. I also intend to connect an Imagewise at 19.2 or 34k bps to the BCC180, with one or more relay selected cameras. A BCC180 task will monitor low-res images for changes in pixel frequency or spot changes in the image. This information will be used two ways: 1) as the equivalent of IR or ultrasonic motion detectors, and 2) to capture hi-res images at event time for RAM storage in the BCC180 and later display on my PC. Although I don't know what I want to do with this yet, I also would like to be able to hook an Imagewise to a remote RTC which would perform the pixel scan and then alert the BCC180 and optionally send a hi-res picture over the RS-485 network. In addition to its use as a home control/security system, I ultimately want to use the RS-485 network as a general-purpose serial communications PBX. I currently have a modem with separate phone line used for data, and a DOV (Data Over Voice) 9600bps modem which is connected to a public packet network in Lincoln. I want to be able to access either of the modems from any PC or directly from the BCC180. With this capability, I can remotely connect to the "house" controller and tell it I want to talk to the BCC180 for status and control, or from my PC I can request connection to the DOV or modem to dial out. ---------- Msg#:17687 *PROJECTS* 04/24/89 00:42:15 From: DAVID MACDONALD To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: DDT-51 Hello again Steve. Any word yet on the DDT-51 board? SOUTHERN CROSSEREX) 386-1059-94011200 N81N I-NET 20 Msg#:17738 *PROJECTS* 04/25/89 11:08:16 From: STEVE CIARCIA To: DAVID MACDONALD (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 17687 (DDT-51) It will absolutely be advertised in the next CC INK and boards are in stock (they haven't been assembled into kits yet and the manual awaits publishing, however). Give a call and order one. I'm not sure what the price is. --Steve Msg#:17688 *PROJECTS* 04/24/89 00:43:29 From: DAVID MACDONALD To: ANYONE Subj: NOISE Help. I seem to have trouble with wire-wrapped boards. Currently I'm building a controller card with an 8031 and ADC1205 A/D converter. The converter has an unstable (+/- 10mv) output. Its 5 volt supply is provided by a separate on-board regulator. This supply is fairly noisy....+/- 10 mv at the processor Xtal frequency. Is this likely the problem, and are there construction techniques to minimize or eliminate such difficulties? All chips are bypassed, as well as the both of the converter's supplies. I know that a precision regulator might help, but they're hard to find. E71N Farwest ...............3813934-.... Msg#:17732 *PROJECTS* 04/25/89 10:29:15 From: ED NISLEY To: DAVID MACDONALD (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 17688 (NOISE) One thing that may be a gotcha is where you're connecting the scope probe ground clip. Make sure that it's directly at the converter output rather than to the "board ground" point to eliminate any ground currents that don't apply to the converter. If you're using aluminum electrolytics for the filter capactitors, replace them with tantalums (for lower ESR) or bypass them with small (10 nF) ceramics. Make sure that the capacitors are right next to the regulators, because otherwise the inductance of the connections will give you nice peaking... You must pay attention to grounding; in principle the analog section should have a single grounding point that is connected to the digital ground with a single conductor. In practice it may be a little hard to pull that off, but it's a good ideal. In addition to the bypass caps on the regulator inputs, you should add a ferrite slug to strip off the high-frequency noise. Because the slugs add loss at the high frequencies rather than just bypassing the currents to ground, you can see some startling improvements. Don't put the slugs on the output side, because you don't want to increase the regulator's high-frequency impedance... Msg#:17855 *PROJECTS* 04/28/89 02:23:02 From: DAVID MACDONALD To: ED NISLEY (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 17732 (NOISE) Thanks very much for all the advise on board construction! I appreciate your many contributions here and in CCINK. Msg#:17700 *PROJECTS* 04/24/89 11:13:20 From: RICK WILLIAMS To: KEN DAVIDSON (Rcvd) Subj: SOCKET FOR PLCC HD64180 I am looking for a manufacturer and part number for the SOCKET for the 68 pin PLCC package of the HD64180 processor. Thanks. Msg#:17717 *PROJECTS* 04/25/89 04:59:41 From: GARY LEAR To: RICK WILLIAMS (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 17700 (SOCKET FOR PLCC HD64180) Texas Instruments makes one variety; CPRPH068-1-0. You can purchase it from Digi-Key (part # C7281) for $10.05 in singles. BTW, if you don't have it, their phone number is (800) 344-4539. Good luck. --Gary Msg#:17763 *PROJECTS* 04/25/89 23:00:38 From: JOHN APPLEYARD To: RICK WILLIAMS Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 17700 (SOCKET FOR PLCC HD64180) I just received the latest JDR Microdevices catalog and I beleive that they have what you need. Msg#:17835 *PROJECTS* 04/27/89 17:03:16 From: KURT A. FEICHTINGER To: DOUG BUHRMAN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 9009 (10 MHZ DIGITIZING BOARD) To: Doug Buhrman Subject: Reply to MSG#9009 (10 Mhz Digitizing Board) I called Programmable Devices at 617-935-9530 to get the lowdown on PAL programming. Yes, they do program PAL's and have the PAL 20L10 and PAL 20X8A in stock. They charge $25 per PAL for setup, unlimited production and unless you supply the PAL's, around $7 per PAL for the parts. Just supply them the Boolean Algebra, either hardcopy printout or on a DSDD 5-1/4 DOS floppy. This is a little expensive for a poor experimenter like me. Anyone who would like to pool an order with me, call me at 201-767-1400 ext. 20 during the day. If I get enough response I will order a bunch. Msg#:17881 *PROJECTS* 04/29/89 02:08:56 From: CURTIS N. PAIGE To: BOB PADDOCK (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 4787 (R/C AND SONAR) Actually, I believe that you did miss something. I could be wrong, but what we were told is that mass is measured by inertia, not volume. A tablespoon of black hole would correspond to a lot more mass because of the effect of gravity crushing the actual atomic space lattice down to the point where there is little (spelled no) room left between particles. C Msg#:17882 *PROJECTS* 04/29/89 02:12:59 From: CURTIS N. PAIGE To: BOB PADDOCK (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 4793 (R/C AND SONAR) Regarding power supplies. You actually could have an extremely high power supply by using a form of electron stripping with superconducting materials. The greatest problems lie not in the actual mechanic, but in the fact that human anatomies cannot really take hostile environments well (i.e. radiation, vacuum, etc.) and the resultant machine would produce horrendous amounts of rads - roaches couldn't come close to taking it. C Msg#:17883 *PROJECTS* 04/29/89 02:15:21 From: CURTIS N. PAIGE To: SHAUN NICHOLSON Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 4877 (R/C AND SONAR) If I remember correctly, it is not necessarily the negative particle that is sucked back in, but either. C Msg#:17884 *PROJECTS* 04/29/89 04:24:19 From: FRANK HENRIQUEZ To: CURTIS N. PAIGE (Rcvd) Subj: BLACK HOLES I don't want to be a party pooper, but a black hole (by definition) cease to exist as material objects. A tablespoon of black hole makes about as much sense as "an integer between 2 and 3". A tablespoon of a neutron star (or a white dwarf) is a different, and very real, matter. In a neutron star, gravity has squeezed electrons, protons and neutrons together, so in effect a neutron star is really just one big neutron, a few miles in diameter... Msg#:17908 *PROJECTS* 04/29/89 21:24:02 From: CURTIS N. PAIGE To: FRANK HENRIQUEZ (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 17884 (BLACK HOLES) From what I read, a black hole is still real, but does not have the same space/time relationship that we currently enjoy with other matter around us. So when I say a tablespoon it has only a marginal relationship with this time frame, but still exists. Although physics isn't my specialty, I hope that some of the physics I took did lodge between my ears - I could be wrong. C Msg#:17930 *PROJECTS* 04/30/89 03:30:31 From: FRANK HENRIQUEZ To: CURTIS N. PAIGE (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 17908 (BLACK HOLES) In a very real way, a black hole no longer exists in any way we could measure or comprehend. All we can say about a black hole is its mass, charge, angular momentum and the radius of its event horizon. A black hole is a true point source, with no dimensions. In fact, our knowledge of physics preculdes us from saying much about what lays beyond the event horizon (the sphere around a black hole where photons have just enough energy to orbit the hole). Msg#:17934 *PROJECTS* 04/30/89 08:57:53 From: CURTIS N. PAIGE To: FRANK HENRIQUEZ (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 17930 (BLACK HOLES) But again, you have to ask yourself, 'Just because we don't understand, does that mean that it doesn't exist?.' Ever try to determine the exact location of an electron - it turns out that the methods needed to determine the location of an electron would also displace it, making the measurement invalid. The warping of space and time means that our relationship is changed, not the fact of exstance. A hypothetical spoonful of black hole is about as close as you can get to a real spoonful, as a spoon would no longer be a spoon in a black hole. All a matter of perspective, kinda like stepping on an ant - doesn't mea much unless of course you're the ant. Catcha C Msg#:17894 *PROJECTS* 04/29/89 11:53:07 From: CHARLES ANDERSON To: ALAN LEGRAND (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 15314 (HAL) Alan, I downloaded your HAL program for the MAC and it works on my 512K as advertised - GREAT! I've been working on a Pascal version on and off for some time now and am still mired in the serial I/O portion. I'm trying to handle the buffer as a circular buffer and, being new to MAC programming, I've circled around and tied myself in a knot. Once I get the I/O working I will be tackling the Fourier transform and so I accept your generous offer of the source code for your Hartley transform. I'll soon have access to a MAC running the 68030 so I expect a considerable speedup, but the SANE routines are still slow. (Note: I downloaded the *.PIT* version of your program twice, but couldn't get it to Unpack. The *.SIT* worked fine). - Chuck Msg#:17931 *PROJECTS* 04/30/89 03:34:49 From: FRANK HENRIQUEZ To: CHARLES ANDERSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 17894 (REPLY TO MSG# 15314 (HAL)) Chuck: I have a lot of experience with Mac serial ports. I'll have an article on programming the mac serial ports (in 68000 assembly) coming out in the July issue of MacTutor. The code is pretty simple. I can't upload it, but I can help you with examples - let me know where you're having problems; I could probably suggest two or three approaches. Frank ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Msg#:17980 *PROJECTS* 05/01/89 10:13:23 From: MICHAEL POLAK To: ED NISLEY (Rcvd) Subj: RTC52/RTC51 Okay, stupid question time. What is the difference between the RTC31 and RTC52. I know the chip difference, but what does that mean to be software wise, debugging wise. Can I use the DTT51 to trouble shoot both? Thanks in advance for helping a lowly software type. Msg#:17997 *PROJECTS* 05/01/89 11:23:10 From: ED NISLEY To: MICHAEL POLAK (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 17980 (RTC52/RTC51) The difference is just the chip: RTC31s have an 8031 and RTC52s have an 80C52. You've got that exactly right. DDT51, on the other hand, works only with programs stored in External Program Memory... as with the 8031. The 8052 BASIC interpreter runs from the on-chip ROM, so DDT-51 can't get to it. If you just need more than 128 bytes of on-chip RAM, you can use an 8052 as an 8031 (well, an 8032) by strapping the EA pin low. That wipes out the BASIC interpreter (because the chip won't access the internal ROM) but does allow DDT51 to take charge. I've been trying to figure out how to warp DDT51 into working with the BASIC interpreter so you can debug assembly routines, but so far there's nothing to report other than good intentions... In any event, the RTC boards have a header that connects directly to the DDT51 board and eliminates the need for that messy DIP clip! Msg#:17987 *PROJECTS* 05/01/89 10:50:45 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: RON RAPP (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 17929 (BCC180/RTCIO INTERFACE) Your basic problem here is trying to mate two boards which were designed for completely opposite purposes. The BCC180 was designed for use on the BCC bus with I/O boards already in existence that also plugged into the BCC bus. The RTCIO board was designed to be used in a self-contained environment on top of an RTC processor board. Trying to cross connect the two from a hardware standpoint will end up being more of a headache than it's worth. If you must use the RTCIO board on the real-world end and the BCC180 on the processing end, you should plug the RTCIO board into one of the RTC processor boards, then let the processor board talk to the BCC180 over the RS-485 line. Msg#:17998 *PROJECTS* 05/01/89 11:32:39 From: JEFF BACHIOCHI To: RON RAPP (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 17929 (BCC180/RTCIO INTERFACE) Ron, Ken's right! Why not use the BCC bus boards with your BCC180? Both A/D and prototying boards are available for the BCC bus! jeff Msg#:18014 *PROJECTS* 05/01/89 23:34:45 From: RON RAPP To: JEFF BACHIOCHI (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 17998 (BCC180/RTCIO INTERFACE) Ken and Jeff, Thanks for your response. The reason I was looking at the RTCIO board instead of the bus boards already existing was: Cost. The price of the dig.output only and analog input only boards, in my opinion, is excessive. 2. Two analog outputs and eight analog inputs seems like a good mix to me. 3. I don't have any kind of schematics on the existing bus boards to help me build one. 4. Networking controllers is more of a bag of worms than I really want to tackle at this time. By the way, I think I've found the answer to all my previous questions except two. I would appreciate it if you could help. I still don't understand the use of the D type flip flop. Also are the address lines normally high and only drop when part of the actual address being sent? Thanks again for your comments. Denver Colorado Ron Rapp Msg#:18026 *PROJECTS* 05/02/89 09:32:35 From: JEFF BACHIOCHI To: RON RAPP (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 18014 (BCC180/RTCIO INTERFACE) Ron, The '74 is used to get a clock for the A-to-D that is as fast as possible (a/d max clk freq). If size permitted, an on board osc would be the best solution. Here we squeaked out every bit of space and took the clk from the processor board. For the RTC31/52 a divide-by-2 was necessary. A8-15 are always at the appropriate levels. A0-7 are latched by the ALE of the processor. jeff Msg#:17991 *PROJECTS* 05/01/89 10:56:38 From: ED NISLEY To: DAVID MACDONALD (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 17855 (NOISE) Thanks... The only obligation is that you _must_ pass on what you find out to the next person with an insoluable problem! Msg#:18020 *PROJECTS* 05/02/89 04:41:14 From: DAVE BUTLER To: JEFF JENSEN (Rcvd) Subj: X10 PL513 MODULE I am working on an interactive home control system for my thesis project at NYU. I am using the X-10 system modules and the (lousy) CP290 interface to communicate with the modules. I have purchased volumes I to VI of Ciarcia's Cicuit Cellar. There are a lot of neat detectors that I would love to hook up to my Mac. What is the easiest way to hook these analog devices to my computer? Thanks for any heelp you can provide. Msg#:18030 *PROJECTS* 05/02/89 10:22:36 From: STEVE CIARCIA To: DAVE BUTLER (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 18020 (X10 PL513 MODULE) Read the next issue of CC INK. It includes a SCSI interface for the MAC. While the author uses it for A/D and D/A, it could be adapted for much more. --Steve Msg#:18041 *PROJECTS* 05/02/89 15:13:22 From: DAVE BUTLER To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 18030 (X10 PL513 MODULE) Thanks a lot! I'll subscribe immediately. Will I get the issue in question? (And by the way, what exactly does the PL513 module do?) Msg#:18052 *PROJECTS* 05/03/89 02:50:37 From: FRANK HENRIQUEZ To: DAVE BUTLER (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 18020 (X10 PL513 MODULE) One relatively cheap ($140 or so) way of getting analog signals into the Mac is with the Farallon MacRecorder. Its an audio digitizer, but it has a couple of external inputs. It has an 8 bit serial A/D (a TI part) and is limited to signals in the audio range, but there's no law prohibiting it from digitizing non-audio signals...and the software that comes with it is great. Msg#:18056 *PROJECTS* 05/03/89 03:40:47 From: GARY LEAR To: DAVE BUTLER (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 18020 (X10 PL513 MODULE) Ken Davidson wrote a couple of good articles on the PL513 module. When you subscribe, ask to purchase a copy of the first years reprints. In brief, the PL513 allows you total control over the X-10 interface via your computer. Check out Ken's articles. --Gary Msg#:18063 *PROJECTS* 05/03/89 08:08:31 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: DAVE BUTLER (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 18041 (X10 PL513 MODULE) If you subscribe now, you will start with issue #9, which is the next issue that contains the Mac stuff. The PL513 interfaces your computer to the power line for sending X-10 commands. It is similar to the CP290, but doesn't contain any smarts. It is entirely up to the host computer to do all the encoding and timing of commands. It is more difficult to program at first, but offers *much* more flexibility than the CP290 and can send out commands with no delay. Issue #3 of INK has complete details on the module. Msg#:18064 *PROJECTS* 05/03/89 08:48:09 From: CURT FRANKLIN To: FRANK HENRIQUEZ (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 18052 (X10 PL513 MODULE) If you're interested in doing A/D for the Mac, be sure and see Circuit Cellar INK #9 and #10. We're running an article on an intelligent SCSI A/D box with Mac software. Curt Franklin Msg#:18068 *PROJECTS* 05/03/89 12:04:17 From: STEVE CIARCIA To: DAVE BUTLER (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 18041 (X10 PL513 MODULE) If you subscribe now (you can do it online here or call 203-875-2199) you will start with issue #9 which has the MAC stuff (actually, the benefit of calling in the subscription is that you can request to start with #9 for sure). --Steve Msg#:18070 *PROJECTS* 05/03/89 12:07:23 From: STEVE CIARCIA To: DAVE BUTLER (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 18041 (X10 PL513 MODULE) While CC INK issue #3 was referenced as the source for the PL513 article, I must warn you that the issue is sold out and is now only available in a full year reprint book. You can order the book at the same time you subscribe. --Steve Msg#:18117 *PROJECTS* 05/04/89 20:52:14 From: DAVE BUTLER To: FRANK HENRIQUEZ (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 18052 (X10 PL513 MODULE) Could I use this to be a digitizer for a strictly binary device? If so, how. I am a novice at A to D. Msg#:18118 *PROJECTS* 05/04/89 21:00:39 From: DAVE BUTLER To: GARY LEAR (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 18056 (X10 PL513 MODULE) Is this the same as their CP290 interface module with 8 rockers on the face and a serial input that speaks in hex? It has the ability to store 128 timer events and 128 icons for those events. It is battery backed, and does not have to be recieving input to execute the timer events. Unfortunately, the programming guide that X-10 gives out with the device is totally inadequate, and the device is very slow (it can only receive info at 600 baud.), and has a very complex hexidecimal command sequence for any command that you wish to execute. Steve Coza ( a hex/pascal wiz) and I have developed a new HyperCard interface for this device in hopes of creating a house management system (researching the project led us to Byte, Steve Ciarcia, and his great series of books). So far, so good, but, as I have mentioned elsewhere on the BBS, my hangup is getting analog info into the Mac (or my IBM PC/XT Turbo). Msg#:18119 *PROJECTS* 05/04/89 21:02:44 From: DAVE BUTLER To: KEN DAVIDSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 18063 (X10 PL513 MODULE) Thanks for the info, Ken. Does the PL513 also speak only hex? Or can it use a simpler language? Msg#:18120 *PROJECTS* 05/04/89 21:03:41 From: DAVE BUTLER To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 18068 (X10 PL513 MODULE) Thankyou for the advice. I will call in my subscription in the A.M. Msg#:18121 *PROJECTS* 05/04/89 21:09:44 From: DAVE BUTLER To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 18070 (X10 PL513 MODULE) I'll order the book. I just recently purchased volumes I to VI of your Circuit Cellar series. Totally nifty! I have never seen so many neat (and practical) applications in one series. Thanks!!! By the way, I am trying to build the MOSART answering machine as detailed in volume VI, page 152. However, my IBM does not have the cassette port on the mother board. What can I use to control my tape deck? Msg#:18131 *PROJECTS* 05/05/89 01:55:30 From: GARY LEAR To: DAVE BUTLER (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 18118 (X10 PL513 MODULE) No, the PL513 is a direct interface to the powerline (and thus conventional X-10 modules) and a microprocessor. Initial programming is more complicated than the self-contained timer module, but the added versatility more than compensates for it. Your analog interface problem falls within my consulting expertise area. Give me a call if you need detailed help. Good luck. (213) 379-0120 --Gary Msg#:18133 *PROJECTS* 05/05/89 01:59:00 From: GARY LEAR To: DAVE BUTLER (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 18119 (X10 PL513 MODULE) It is simpler than hex alright, single bit binary! :-) --Gary Msg#:18136 *PROJECTS* 05/05/89 02:30:49 From: FRANK HENRIQUEZ To: DAVE BUTLER (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 18118 (X10 PL513 MODULE) Do you want to get an analog signal into the Mac (like the output from a light detector) or convert a stream of pulses into a digital signal and THEN get it into the Mac? Msg#:18145 *PROJECTS* 05/05/89 09:07:41 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: DAVE BUTLER (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 18119 (X10 PL513 MODULE) There is no such thing as a language when you're talking about the PL513. Like Gary said, single-bit binary. All the module does is tell you when there is a zero crossing of the 60-Hz power line signal and let you control when a 120-kHz oscillator is gated onto the power line. It is entirely up to you to encode your command into the proper 10-bit sequence and produce properly timed 1 and 0 bits. Not a job for BASIC and not a job for a novice. Msg#:18148 *PROJECTS* 05/05/89 10:32:57 From: STEVE CIARCIA To: DAVE BUTLER (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 18121 (X10 PL513 MODULE) Use some of the parallel output bits on your printer port. --STeve Msg#:18165 *PROJECTS* 05/05/89 15:59:57 From: JEFF JENSEN To: DAVE BUTLER (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 18020 (X10 PL513 MODULE) Dave, it looks like you hooked up with the right folks on the board to answer your questions. I can't add anything to what they have said (as a matter of fact, I learned a fair amount from their answers :-) ). Jeff Msg#:18190 *PROJECTS* 05/06/89 01:48:32 From: DAVE BUTLER To: GARY LEAR (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 18131 (X10 PL513 MODULE) Thanks, Gary. I will definitely take you up on the offer of help!!! Msg#:18192 *PROJECTS* 05/06/89 01:51:45 From: DAVE BUTLER To: KEN DAVIDSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 18190 (X10 PL513 MODULE) I read that loud and clear, Ken. I'll stick with the (kludgy) CP290. At least I can understand the command sequences... Msg#:18193 *PROJECTS* 05/06/89 01:53:16 From: DAVE BUTLER To: FRANK HENRIQUEZ (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 18136 (X10 PL513 MODULE) I want to get the simple on/off's from detectors into the MAC. Msg#:18194 *PROJECTS* 05/06/89 01:54:26 From: DAVE BUTLER To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 18148 (X10 PL513 MODULE) Aren't the output ports on the MAC serial RS-422? Msg#:18038 *PROJECTS* 05/02/89 13:55:34 From: BILL RICHARDS To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: MASTER CONTROLLER I have completed assembling the Master Controller and have several questions/problems. First, in the exp. kit as received I also received a component labeled "TFK S 1 86P". It appears to be a diode and I assumed it to be the IR receiver (D4) TIL413 listed on the component list. Is this correct? Second, after assembling all components on the board except the ic chips, I tested for the +5 volts as instructed. All of the sockets tested (1-10, 12-13) showed +5 volts. However, with the power on, the visible LED (i used red) was also on. What could be the cause? I checked, of course, for bridges or breaks in traces. Third, with all components installed, including the ic chips, powering up produces only a single row of solid blocks on the top row of the LCD. Depressing any of the buttons does not alter the display; the visible LED is also NOT on this time. Lastly, I noticed in the photos from BYTE that the Controller had a few jumper wires installed and I wondered if maybe I missed something? Any help you may be able to provide is greatly appreciated. Thanks, Bill. Msg#:18066 *PROJECTS* 05/03/89 10:04:55 From: JEFF BACHIOCHI To: BILL RICHARDS (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 18038 (MASTER CONTROLLER) Bill, The first IR receivers actually had a lens on the receiver side, it was easy to recognize the front from the back. The newer ones are flat on both the front and back. These have a flattened corner indicating the cathode (white stripe on the silkscreen). Notice that when installed the printing is on the back side toward the boards center. Check for a 12 MHz crystal. Check for the led to light when you press the "do it" button (this indicates the program is running). If you have test equipment look for ALE and movement of the address and data lines. If you are using batteries, is VCC 5 volts? (the system runs erraticly when VCC falls) Review past messages on this BBS (master controller). jeff Msg#:18067 *PROJECTS* 05/03/89 11:48:30 From: STEVE CIARCIA To: BILL RICHARDS (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 18038 (MASTER CONTROLLER) Jeff pretty much answered all the questions. Yes, because the FET has a very high input impedance, the LED might light with no IC connected to its gate lead. And, no, there are no jumpers. The board in BYTE was an early prototype. Most of all, check that you hav more than 4.75V when all the IC are installed. --Steve Msg#:18069 *PROJECTS* 05/03/89 12:04:54 From: BILL RICHARDS To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 18067 (MASTER CONTROLLER) thanks for the quick reply. I will be checking the suggestions and hope that clears things up. Thanks again, Bill. Msg#:18071 *PROJECTS* 05/03/89 12:07:42 From: BILL RICHARDS To: JEFF BACHIOCHI (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 18066 (MASTER CONTROLLER) Jeff, Thanks for the quick reply. I downloaded all previous messages and will look for info in them. Will check out your suggestions, too. Thanks again, bill. Msg#:18042 *PROJECTS* 05/02/89 16:19:05 From: MARCUS HALL To: STEVEN HIRSCH Subj: RE: NEW CHIP FOR AV/MUX About 6 months ago, you left a message here about a chip from Mitel, the MT8816. You said that you would upload the names of several distributors if there was interest. I haven't been able to find any messages with such a list, so I guess that there wasn't a lot of interest. However, I am interested! If you still check into this BBS and get this, I would appreciate it if you could drop me a note with some Mitel distributors. As a general question to anyone about the AV/MUX: Is there much loss sending a signal through the mux? With the original mux chip, it was supposed to have a 5MHz bandwidth. Would it be worth it to run the mux chip at a higher voltage to get increased bandwidth? Would it still interface at TTL levels or would I need to go to open-collector drivers w/ pullups to +10V? The application is for central AV control, so video quality is definately an issue. Would there be a better output buffer circuit to use? I'm OK on digital logic, but totally lost when it comes to analog, please bear with my questions. Thanks.. marcus hall Msg#:18047 *PROJECTS* 05/02/89 23:04:48 From: DAN KERL To: JEFF BACHIOCHI (Rcvd) Subj: RTC31/52 NETWORKING Congratulations on another fine development project. I am interested in information (possibly a specification) of MC-Net protocol. Where can I get a copy? Thanks! Msg#:18065 *PROJECTS* 05/03/89 09:11:38 From: JEFF BACHIOCHI To: DAN KERL (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 18047 (RTC31/52 NETWORKING) Dan, Specifications for networking multiple RTC31/52's will be defined in an upcoming issue of Circuit Cellar INK. We will undoubtable have discussions on this board as well. When testing is completed and the actual (vs theoretical) specs are known, we will have something to report. jeff Msg#:18057 *PROJECTS* 05/03/89 03:57:42 From: LES DOMBOROCZKY To: ED NISLEY (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 17588 (DDT-51) Yes, I have found an assembler which will munch Avocet's source for the '51. Put out by an outfit called Enertec of Lansdale,PA. Comes complete with Linker and Librarian for 3 bills. Heavily documented, and customer support seemed knowledgable and cooperative. Keep up the good work on the micro scene. Am an avid reader. Thanx. Msg#:18078 *PROJECTS* 05/03/89 16:37:16 From: ED NISLEY To: LES DOMBOROCZKY Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 18057 (DDT-51) Tah dum! Off to the keyboard! Msg#:18127 *PROJECTS* 05/04/89 23:00:23 From: PETE R. NORTON To: JEFF BACHIOCHI (Rcvd) Subj: CCAT hiya, I am trying to use the CCAT board as a dedicated controller in a passive backplane chassis. I do not need a PC compatible BIOS and would like to ROM my control software and install it in place of the supplied AWARD BIOS chips. I have done this previously with a FARADAY XT type motherboard. MY PROBLEM: is there any information/listings available re the minimum power-on initialization code required to set the POACH chips up before jumping to main program? I have taken my XT ROM software and run it in place of the BIOS roms on a TMI B286 SBC without modification, but this did not work with the CCAT. Direct calls to Micromint indicate the AWARD roms are proprietary and no listings are available. Calls to ZYMOS have not been returned. So, I have tried to disassemble the AWARD roms trying to cross reference them with the IBM PCAT tech manual listings. About 100 bytes into it, the fog gets too thick. Here are a few specific questions I have: what is J18 for on the CCAT? What is the fix for the power-good lockup problem with the 7414 (i got it unstuck but not too elegantly, as the schematic is incorrect in this area)? What is at i/o address hex 300 on the CCAT the BIOS writes this location a lot, is it important? How is the DRAM refresh started, with timer 1 same as the IBM PC? (I could find no 'out 41' instruction in the BIOS). Is there any way to implement a 'watchdog timer' function on the CCAT? Anyway, thanks for any comments. Msg#:18152 *PROJECTS* 05/05/89 11:12:58 From: JEFF BACHIOCHI To: PETE R. NORTON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 18127 (CCAT) Pete, When jumpering JP18 (pins1&2), the -RAMSEL line is held low and is not controlled by the 8742 keyboard controller output pin 31 (P14). As far as a fix for the power-good. Micromint has added a pup-reset module to all the boards. This is a DS1231 power monitor which delays the power-good for a minimum of 250ms after VCC rises through 4.5 volts and a disables power-good when VCC falls below 4.5 volts. The module contains the DS1231 and discretes allowing it to replace the RC power-good components on the PC board. Since the POACH chips were designed to look exactly like the AT, software should be identical to the AT. Use the AT technical reference manual as a guide to your initialization. jeff Msg#:18253 *PROJECTS* 05/07/89 14:11:15 From: PETE R NORTON To: JEFF BACHIOCHI (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 18152 (CCAT) thanks for the information. do you know of anyone who has developed rommable software using C for the CCAT (installed in the BIOS rom area)? Msg#:18271 *PROJECTS* 05/08/89 08:31:46 From: JEFF BACHIOCHI To: PETE R. NORTON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 18127 (CCAT) Pete, It has been a while since I have spent any significant time on the CCAT project. I know that AWARD actually wrote the whole BIOS in 'C' and then translated to machine language to trim the code for max speed. If you can get the DATA SHEETS on the three POACH chips (3&4 use the same chip, POACH 3's), you should have the information you need. I think I remember that AWARD used I/O address 300 to mirror system status and errors which IBM wrote to a lower onboard address (maybe 80). jeff Msg#:18160 *PROJECTS* 05/05/89 14:14:12 From: JERRY BLACK To: KEN DAVIDSON (Rcvd) Subj: CRYSTALS Ken, I've gone through several SB180 boards for various control projects, and now am designing around the 647180 rom-ram everything chip. One dumb question: where can you get 12.288 Mhz (or 18.432 Mhz) crystals in a reasonable amount of time, in a 10- or 20-quantity? Msg#:18164 *PROJECTS* 05/05/89 15:54:58 From: BOB PADDOCK To: JERRY BLACK (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 18160 (CRYSTALS) Jerry, I just finished a designe with the 647180 and now wish I'd used some thing differant. (Like the TMS370.) Now that I have my PC boards layed out and in hand, you can't get any thing but 4 MHz parts. The other problem that I had with the 647180 is that the interaction between the internal RAM and the MMU is not adiquitly explained (at least not for me). Also don't plan on using the anlog inputs for any thing other than "Yep, We got voltage, or Nop, No voltage". The just don't make it for being an A/D. Msg#:18186 *PROJECTS* 05/06/89 00:33:24 From: GARY LEAR To: BOB PADDOCK (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 18164 (CRYSTALS) Bob, why do you wish that you had used the TMS370? Do you prefer it to the 68HC11? --Gary Msg#:18246 *PROJECTS* 05/07/89 03:18:39 From: CURTIS N. PAIGE To: JERRY BLACK (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 18160 (CRYSTALS) For the 18.4320 crystal, I could get some for about $1.75 each (+ s&h). Otherwise, you might try Jameco @ (415) 592-8097. I checked JDR, I don't think that they carry that stuff. C Msg#:18288 *PROJECTS* 05/08/89 12:29:46 From: BOB PADDOCK To: GARY LEAR (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 18186 (CRYSTALS) I have a bad tast in my mouth from the 68HC11, and Motorola in general. For the most part the problems are/where political regarding avilability, we wanted to use the part a few years ago for a SCR Phase control system. After many broken dilivery dates, and a few actuall lies from the people involved we went to using the 6301 (I actually have a data sheet here from Mot for the 68HC01 (A copy of Hitachis 6301 which is a much improved version of the Mot 6801) Compare the cycle times of the 6301 to that of the HC11 to see what kind of dog the HC11 is in comparessn to the 6301. Things again got political do to presser from Mot on Hit, to stop the import of the 6301 (Kill off any thing higher performance that what we are selling now). Politics a side have you ever seen a HC11 that didn't have a "X" stuck in front of or behind the part number? If you realy dig trough Mot's stuff you'll find that "X" means the part is not fully qualified to meet all data sheet speceifications. (Some times they tell you, some times they don't, which speceifications arn't meet.) In the project that we wanted to use the HC11 on, could concivably be considered a life treatning setuation if some thing failes. Starting a new design with a part that you know doesn't meet its own specks is some thing that you just don't do. Now after all of this put down of Mot, I must say I just love the 68000 stuff (but then we could get into the politics of the 63000 vers the 68HC000 ......).............. Msg#:18397 *PROJECTS* 05/10/89 04:27:02 From: GARY LEAR To: BOB PADDOCK (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 18288 (CRYSTALS) I have similar horror stories about Zilog and Intel. Motorola has always been great to me. My only real complaint with the HC11 is that I wish they had used the 6809 core instead of the 6801 (this point was heavily debated, politics won again). Most of my applications benefit more from the high level of integration than from raw CPU performance. If I need that much more clout than the '11 can deliver, I look for a totally different approach. BTW, Motorola hasn't shipped X11 parts in more than a year. I have several fully qualified parts on hand right now. Have fun. --Gary Msg#:18416 *PROJECTS* 05/10/89 12:27:10 From: BOB PADDOCK To: GARY LEAR (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 18397 (CRYSTALS) Yes I had a similar horror story with Intel's 8748/49 a few years ago. Glad th that they finaly droped the 'X', some day be bruses might heal, and will consider the HC11 again..... Msg#:18439 *PROJECTS* 05/11/89 04:57:15 From: GARY LEAR To: BOB PADDOCK (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 18416 (CRYSTALS) I hope so. It really is a pretty good part. --Gary Msg#:18198 *PROJECTS* 05/06/89 02:07:55 From: DAVE BUTLER To: DALE REID (Rcvd) Subj: WEATHER ARTICLE Is there a way to download this stuff (Weather Info) into the MAC. (Yeah, I know that I'm asking MAC questions everywhere, but you guys have great answers). I would also like to grab weather fax, like they use on boats, and send the weather maps into my MAC. Any ideas? Msg#:19667 *PROJECTS* 06/14/89 20:57:39 From: DALE REID To: DAVE BUTLER Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 18198 (WEATHER ARTICLE) Dave ... I guess I don't know, not having been on a MAC in some time. There are some weather soucres available to get just plain old text data like the airport weather breifings for pilots into your system. Any old modem will do that. The problem with the fancy maps and stuff is that they depend on the stored bitmaps maps in your compuyter and just transmit the overlay to you. There are some other consdierations, and you might wish to try dialing Jeff Wallach or John Williams at the Dallas Remote Imaging Group computer in Dallas. They are into mega image processing, enhancement of stored images, etc. and use the .img format, atari, ibm, and othe rstuff that I don't pay much attention to since I don't have the goodies to make it work The are PC Pursuitable and are at 214-394-7438 and voice to jeff at 214-394-7325. Also you might consider calling Jim MacClean wo is an engineer who builds capture boards for IBM's and also alludes to apple leanings and he's at 407-727-3646 in the eves. Hope this helps and if I come across more, I'll dump it here, now that I'm modeming again. Dale Msg#:20110 *PROJECTS* 06/24/89 22:46:28 From: PAUL YEATES To: DAVE BUTLER Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 18198 (WEATHER ARTICLE) Dave I read your message about getting weather info on your MAC. I'm interested in that topic myself but using a IBM-PC. I've just subscribed to a service called Accu-Weather (see PART 3 of The Home Satellite Weather Center CCI V1,N3) all you'll need is a TEK410X emulator to receive great weather images. The contact at Accu-Weather is Blaine Clapper 1-814-234-9601. For hobbiest the access rate is $16.95 / Hr at 1200 baud. They my have software for the Mac, they did for the PC. Msg#:18210 *PROJECTS* 05/06/89 08:16:51 From: DOUG BUHRMAN To: KURT A. FEICHTINGER Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 17835 (10 MHZ DIGITIZING BOARD) Hi Kurt: I have been looking around for a source of PALs and have not had much luck on the surplus end. I was going to start with the regular dealers like Newark and Hamilton/avnet. Thanks for the info. I'll give you a call. Doug Msg#:18254 *PROJECTS* 05/07/89 15:04:50 From: ALAN LEGRAND To: CHARLES ANDERSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 17894 (REPLY TO MSG# 15314 (HAL)) I am uploading my integer FHT transform it should appear in the file HALFHT.C. I think you should forget about using a ring buffer if you use the serial driver. I started out with one but switched to double buffering. I currently separate each channel into a separate buffer(stored in word format for the FHT) as soon as possible. The major problem I have had is that the program is too slow to operate in realtime. As a result, It keeps losing sync with the data stream and I have to flush the buffer before each transform. If you manipulate the port directly 2 or 3 one second ring buffers might work better. A complete set of example programs( with explanations) for using the serial port on the MAC have appeared in MacTutor. If you a serious about learning to program the MAC subscribe!!! A Pascal program for using the serial driver(JUNE 88), a complete set of assembly routines for doing MIDI through the serial port(NOV85,JULY87,DEC87), and about the 8350 SCC chip(JAN86). They have a BBS (Mousehole, It went down at the beginning of the year) your best bet, if you truly need help, is to ask there. Personally, I think you would be better off struggling to solve problems on your own though(Ahem, there are certain problems you can't solve). You will also need the complete set of INSIDE MACINTOSH(V1,2,3,4,5). If you plan to direct access of the serial port you also need the 8350 SCC manual. Msg#:18265 *PROJECTS* 05/08/89 03:01:45 From: FRANK HENRIQUEZ To: ALAN LEGRAND (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 18254 (REPLY TO MSG# 15314 (HAL)) The MacTutor's BBS (the MouseHole) is back up. The number is: (408) 738-5791. And as to accessing the 8530 directly; it isn't such a hot idea - the chip will generate interrupts when data comes in and when there are mouse movements...so unless you are experienced (and willing!) to write a device driver to handle YOUR data and not crash the Mac, then I recommend using the standard Toolbox routines to access the ports. I've been able to transmit and receive at 19200 baud and display the incoming text with TextEdit (which is slow) without losing data, and without much difficulty. The key is to use the Toolbox function SerSetBuf to increase the size of the input buffer. Msg#:18325 *PROJECTS* 05/08/89 22:22:47 From: ALAN LEGRAND To: FRANK HENRIQUEZ (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 18265 (REPLY TO MSG# 15314 (HAL)) frank, you are right the serial driver works, but.... I would like to not have to move the data stream between several buffers. Right now I have a 8K buffer. But I extract at a byte at a time to unpack the data stream. Also, I think good assembly code for direct access to the chip was published in Mactutor (DEC 87) by Kirk Austin. Msg#:18332 *PROJECTS* 05/09/89 04:38:57 From: FRANK HENRIQUEZ To: ALAN LEGRAND (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 18325 (REPLY TO MSG# 15314 (HAL)) My serial drivers are less than 2K in size and area lot smaller than Kirk's quite complete drivers. I only use one buffer, and don't shuffle data around at all. Msg#:18255 *PROJECTS* 05/07/89 15:11:12 From: BOB STOUT To: ALL Subj: 8052AH Help!! I just started to play with the 8052ah-basic controller and have encountered some problems. As I have no docs yet (just order the Intel Manual) I can only guess what's wrong. I am using the controller in a simple board I made up and can talk to the controller ok. I can assign a value to a variable in immediate mode and can print the value of that variable no sweat. My problem is that I get a "invalid line number" error anytime I try to enter a program line. I tried the "ram" command and assorted other commands but no luck. Is there (1) a problem with my controller?, (2) problem with my circuitry - 8k ram, etc. the usual 8051 basic setup with a max-232, (3) a problem with initialization i.e. is there some command or mode that I have to be in before entering program lines? As I mentioned, I can get a respone from most of the commands in immediate mode like "print cby(xxxxh)" etc. Anyone have any ideas?? Thanks....Bob Stout Msg#:18286 *PROJECTS* 05/08/89 10:07:10 From: ED NISLEY To: BOB STOUT (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 18255 (8052AH) Sounds like the RAM isn't getting addressed correctly. Check the RAM address and enable lines to make sure that the thing is actually readable and writeable from the 8052. If you've got a scope, check that the -RD and -WR lines wiggle at the appropriate times; -PSEN should not do much when you're running from the internal PROM. Because BASIC doesn't use the external RAM for much when it doesn't have a program, you can actually get away with not much workable RAM. The interpreter does a simpleminded memory check that can be fooled if you've got a few address lines goofed up, so it can believe you've got more active memory than really exists. Probe around a bit and give us a few more symptoms... we'll get you on the air! Msg#:18307 *PROJECTS* 05/08/89 15:44:19 From: STEVE CIARCIA To: BOB STOUT (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 18255 (8052AH) For the 8052-basic to work, you must have RAM at 0000 hex. --Steve Msg#:18468 *PROJECTS* 05/11/89 20:50:15 From: BOB STOUT To: ED NISLEY (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 18286 (8052AH) Steve, Ed, Jeff: after leaving my message about problems getting my 8052ah flying I tried some things. I didn't have a manual or docs at the time but I do now. Here are some details. I checked Mtop after powerup and sure enough it was 0. I assigned mtop a value of my own (mtop=8191) and entered NEW and suddenly I was in business. Now the strange thing is; this board is very basic. I have been using it with a lot of 8031/51 projects and all my ram tests check out. The board is basically this: Socket for 8051 family controller, socket for 8k of eprom, socket for 8k of ram(have been using HM6264alp-15's), latch, Max232, and other support components. Now I've never had any problems before like I said, so this is kind of strange. My ram is controlled by RD, WR and of course Ale does it's part. Ram is located at 0000h by default. Eprom is controlled as usual by Psen and it too is located at 0000h by default. No address decoding as such. Psen takes care of OE on eprom, RE or RD takes care of OE on Ram. Should this be a problem. The only thing I can see when I look at the Intel source code for the 52ah is that reads to ROMADR will of course be looking at my ram locations. I did find that after modifying the source code so it will run from Eprom ( I changed the initialization so I can use timer0 of an 8031 for my serial port) that contents of my ram effected how basic came up. I'm still working on getting a better feel for John Katauski's excellent job on the firmware. Well that's it in a nutshell...What am I overlooking? I don't have a scope to look at things while running but I don't think I've got problems with shorted addresses, etc. Msg#:18473 *PROJECTS* 05/11/89 23:49:39 From: DAVID LAWSON To: BOB STOUT (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 18468 (8052AH) bob if you have intel's MCS BASIC-52 book, look in chapter 10 under "system configuration". the ram/eprom mode you must put eprom at location 2000h. if you are using the built in eprom programmer then eprom must be addressed starting at 8000h. by the way the basic that is burned into eprom is "tokenized" so you cant just blow a prom with basic text in it and put it into eprom starting at 8000h. also if using eprom at 8000h the locations between 8000h and 8010h are used by basic for the "autostart" sensing (see the section on using the onboard eprom programmer). an important safety tip.. port 0 needs pull up resistors when programming eproms. 10k works ok. port 0 is open drain so pull ups are needed. once flying this baby is KILLER. where else can you get exponents to +/- 127 on a microcontroller, even my copy of basic for the pc only goes +/- E99! and bit test in basic WOW! my point is..a good thorough going over the manual from cover to cover yeilds some unexpected goodies. the only thing i had to call intel for, is the startup values used in locations 8000h to 8010h, but i lost 'em (somebody took my copy of MCS basic-52) good luck.. dave Msg#:18490 *PROJECTS* 05/12/89 11:09:17 From: ED NISLEY To: BOB STOUT (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 18468 (8052AH) One of the few things I know for absolute certain is that whenever you're confronted with a board that does not work, you CANNOT say "but I don't think there is a problem with ..." BASIC thinks you have more than 1K of memory because it starts up. It may think you have exactly 64K of memory because MTOP is zero. That says your memory decoding is screwed up, which means either you have the same RAM mapped into different locations or just one byte that responds exactly right. You must also set a few other variables besides MTOP; some of them aren't available inside the BASIC environment. Take a look at the chapter on reset options to see what BASIC sets up during startup... you're getting away with changing MTOP alone because the other variables are mapped into the RAM by your defective decoder (or whatever). Do, please, help us out by assuming that there is, in fact, something wrong with the board. If you don't have a scope you're going to have to do some grubby testing with a logic probe or (gasp!) ohmmeter to find out which wires don't go where you expect them to -- or which pair is shorted together by an invisible solder bridge. This is unpleasant and tedious, but we all have to go through it... Msg#:18496 *PROJECTS* 05/12/89 12:15:41 From: STEVE CIARCIA To: BOB STOUT (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 18468 (8052AH) I don't want to throw a wet towel on your 8052-basic design but there are certain limitations on troubleshooting alien configurations via a bbs. I have presented various 8052-basic board designs and we are glad to help you troubleshoot one of them because we both understand what circuit we are discussing and we guarantee that our circuit work. I appreciate that you have a problem getting your design to work and hopefully we can offer some suggestions. In the long run, however, we can not spend an infinite amount of time on something with so many unknowns. I'm sure you understand. --Steve Msg#:18517 *PROJECTS* 05/13/89 09:34:37 From: BOB STOUT To: ED NISLEY (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 18490 (8052AH) Ed, your reasons behind feeling that my board has problems are good enough for me to suspect that as a problem. As Arthur Conen Doyle said (in the voice of Shirlock Holmes) , 'if you rule out the possibilities one by one, that which you are left with must be the source of the problem'. Thanks for your ideas ...I will post you of my findings....Bob Stout Msg#:18518 *PROJECTS* 05/13/89 09:38:09 From: BOB STOUT To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 18496 (8052AH) Steve, thanks for your help. I was only probing for any ideas that would point to something that was very obvious. All evidence points to a hardware problem on my end so I will proceed with that in mind. Again thanks for you suggestions......Bob Stout Msg#:18572 *PROJECTS* 05/15/89 09:52:54 From: JEFF BACHIOCHI To: BOB STOUT (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 18468 (8052AH) Bob, From what you have described, it sounds as if you are not using any decoder. Ed hit it on head. Memory is being mirrored every where! A decoder will prevent the RAM from being enabled for more than one address block. Use a '138 to decode A13-15 into eight - 8k blocks. One other point, a BASIC program in EPROM must start at 8011H. 8010H must hold a 55H (which tells the processor a BASIC program follows). 8000H-8004H hold optional information for the various 'autostart' options. The INTEL BASIC-52 manual describes these! jeff Msg#:18587 *PROJECTS* 05/15/89 12:34:04 From: ED NISLEY To: BOB STOUT (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 18517 (8052AH) (Sorry if I sounded a little nasty...) Msg#:18691 *PROJECTS* 05/18/89 22:44:39 From: BOB STOUT To: ED NISLEY (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 18587 (8052AH) Ed, Thanks again for your help!!. I've been digging through the 8052 source as I modify it to run on an 8031. The problem I indeed was having was because of the lack of decoding on my little board( I had no need to address more than 8k previously). I was able to rectify that by changing the source to check and test for ram in the range of 0000-1fffh. I was able to remove all the rom/eprom related routines (I don't need) and set the serial port to work with timer0 (instead of timer2). I had to also change the initializing labels for c-stack and a-stack as they were loaded with the same value the processor stack was inited to (FEh) and I had changed to 7Eh to suit the 8031. Every thing works great now. Thanks again. Bob Msg#:18774 *PROJECTS* 05/22/89 09:24:05 From: ED NISLEY To: BOB STOUT (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 18691 (8052AH) It's the things you're so certain about that you don't have to check them that give you all the troubles. Now for the fun stuff! Msg#:18269 *PROJECTS* 05/08/89 08:11:39 From: DAN MCDANIEL To: JEFF BACHIOCHI (Rcvd) Subj: SERIAL EPROM PROGRAMMER I'm about half way through building the serial EPROM programmer starting with the experimenter's kit, and thought I'd pass along a couple of comments and questions. 1) As others have noted, the Miller 5506 chokes ar a little hard to find. A cooperative parts dealer ordered me one (he got it as a sample, and didn't even charge me), but it's not in any of the catalogs I've looked at. It's also a a little hard to find .22ohm resistors. 2) Q1A - Q5A are specified as LM317mp in a TO-202 package, but the heat sinks (Thermalloy 6030) seem to be designed for a TO-220 package. Shouldn't the part be changed to LM317t in a TO-220 package? Or am I over-looking something about mounting them. I noticed that in the photo of the proto-type in the original article no heat sinks are shown. 3) The Errata Sheet that came with the kit refers to the EPROM as being Version 2.xx. The one supplied was Ver. 1.6. Is there a newer one? What are the differences? Thanks in advance. I'm looking forward to getting this up and running as soon as the rest of my parts arrive. Msg#:18281 *PROJECTS* 05/08/89 09:11:33 From: JEFF BACHIOCHI To: DAN MCDANIEL (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 18269 (SERIAL EPROM PROGRAMMER) Dan, The miller choke that was used in the SEP was chosen from a distributers catalog. It was selected as closest to the calculated value. Actually, any value within reason should work as well. Note that this choke is wound with heavy gauge wire and is not the size of 1/4 watt resistor! The .22 ohm resistor can be made up of five 1 ohm resistors in parallel. It will be fine to leave off all the heatsinks! These were easier to incorporate in the design then to try and add later if needed. The version 2.x has added features. It is offered as an upgrade for a minimal charge. The added features include moving the system EPROM directly into the RAM buffer, filling a block of memory with a byte value and the addition of 6 user definable EPROM 'types'. This upgrade is not necessary for the SEP as version 1.6 contains the complete working system as described in the original article! jeff Msg#:18511 *PROJECTS* 05/12/89 23:27:30 From: DAN MCDANIEL To: JEFF BACHIOCHI (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 18281 (SERIAL EPROM PROGRAMMER) Jeff, Thanks for the reply. I've finished most of the soldering, and should be able to wrap it up when the last of the capacitors arrive. I decided to build it into a box with a display panel, rather than mount everything on the board. dan Msg#:18311 *PROJECTS* 05/08/89 16:16:13 From: PETE SMITH To: ALL Subj: WEFAX NEED CORRECT ADDRESS & PHONE # FOR SPECTRUM INTERNATIONAL, SUPPLIER OF WEFAX ANTENNA AND DOWNCONVERTER. Msg#:18313 *PROJECTS* 05/08/89 16:29:01 From: DAVID F. NEWMAN To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: DIGITISERS THE GRAY SCALE DIGITSER THAT WAS IN THE MAY-AUG ISSUES OF BYTE MAG. IS IT COMPATABLE WITH THE MACINTOSH COMPUTER AND IF NOT IS IT EVER POSSIBLE Msg#:18343 *PROJECTS* 05/09/89 09:09:36 From: CURT FRANKLIN To: DAVID F. NEWMAN Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 18313 (DIGITISERS) The original serial ImageWise is, indeed, compatible with Macs. There is even software available on this board for using the ImageWise and doing some manipulation of images. We use just such as setup for rough placement of photos during production of Circuit Cellar INK. Curt Franklin Msg#:18390 *PROJECTS* 05/10/89 01:32:31 From: EDDIE WHITE To: ALL Subj: SWITCHER PARTS Armed with plastic, does anyone know where LT1070's and Pulse Engineering transformers can be bought? thanks, Eddie Msg#:18404 *PROJECTS* 05/10/89 09:07:23 From: JEFF BACHIOCHI To: EDDIE WHITE (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 18390 (SWITCHER PARTS) Eddie, Read Steve's article (issue 8 - Switching Power Supplies). All the good stuff is in CCInk. Linear Technology (408) 432-1900 and Pulse Engineering (619) 268-2400. If you don't subscribe . . . shame :-) jeff Msg#:18437 *PROJECTS* 05/11/89 01:38:03 From: EDDIE WHITE To: JEFF BACHIOCHI (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 18404 (SWITCHER PARTS) Jeff, But I do subscribe, where do you think I got the information? I guess I should have stated the question differently. Where can an individual purchase the parts suggested in Steve's article in small quantities. Perhaps with a credit card. Unless special arrangments have been made, the manufacturer does not sell "onesies and twosies". Thats why I was asking. thanks, Eddie Msg#:18450 *PROJECTS* 05/11/89 09:30:21 From: JEFF BACHIOCHI To: EDDIE WHITE (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 18437 (SWITCHER PARTS) Eddie, Sorry for the misunderstanding! The best way I know of to obtain parts like these (assuming they are not available from JDR or JAMECO etc.) is to call the manufacturer directly and ask for the nearest (stocking) distributer. Many times there will be a dist. or rep. right in your home state! jeff Msg#:18392 *PROJECTS* 05/10/89 03:07:42 From: GREG BELL To: ALL Subj: RAM LP MODE Hi everybody- I have an 8031 system (breadboarded!) set up so that the monitor EPROM will take an Intel OBJ file at 9600 baud over the COM port on my AT and deposit in a RAM. Software developement is 4x faster without having to re-burn an EPROM for each program change! Not a new idea but still exciting. I have two questions: 1. How do I get the RAM to go into its low power mode? Its a 6264LP-15. Half of my problem is the poorly written datasheet. Do things have to occur in a certain sequence, or does it just require the CS1/ and CS2 lines to be inactive? If that's the case, then I have a problem since my program is running in RAM and constantly accessing. Does the program have to jump to some loop in the EPROM just so that the chip is left alone long enough to be powered down? Or, can I just yank Vcc and the chip will go into LP mode? I don't think this is the case because I tried backing it with a cap (with the necessary diodes) and got very short retention time. 2. The one big disadvantage of having an EPROM in address space 0000h to 0800h and the RAM later is that the interrupt vectors sit in the EPROM space. So, I am unable to change them at whim. Is there any way to let the RAM sit at the 0000h location and the EPROM later and still have the 8031 jump to the EPROM at power-up? This one I can guess the probable answer on... :-) Sorry this is so long, but I had to explain things! Your help is app- reciated. Greg Bell Msg#:18409 *PROJECTS* 05/10/89 09:41:05 From: JEFF BACHIOCHI To: GREG BELL (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 18392 (RAM LP MODE) Greg, The 6264-LP draws a maximum of 100uA (2uA typical) if deselected (*CS1>=VCC-0.2V, CS2>=VCC-0.2V or CS2<=0.2V). This is with VCC of 5 volts. If VCC is 3V (as with a battery) and deselected, then it draws a maximum of 50uA (typical 1uA). You can see by this that the key here is data retention and not a big current savings. If you battery back your RAM at 0000h, a jump vector @ 0000h can point to your EPROM code. In fact you may wish to keep your program entirely in RAM. This assumes a combined data/code space. The only drawback is the potential of writing to the RAM and altering the program execution. jeff Msg#:18441 *PROJECTS* 05/11/89 05:06:50 From: GREG BELL To: JEFF BACHIOCHI (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 18409 (RAM LP MODE) That won't work... at some point, the RAM is powered up and has no data in it. The EPROM has to be able to take control so that something can get loaded into the ROM. If the RAM has garbage in it, then there's no way location 0000h can have a vector in it. ..........Greg Bell Msg#:18448 *PROJECTS* 05/11/89 08:57:49 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: GREG BELL (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 18392 (RAM LP MODE) Why not just vector all the interrupts through a RAM-based jump table? You'd add a bit more to the ISR overhead, but at the benefit of more flexibility. Msg#:18451 *PROJECTS* 05/11/89 09:38:20 From: JEFF BACHIOCHI To: GREG BELL (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 18441 (RAM LP MODE) Greg, Yes, you would have to put a few bytes into the RAM by hand. This is possible by using a RAM module or battery backed socket which can be removed from your board without losing any DATA. On the BCC52, which has an on-board programmer, the programming socket can be configured for RAM. If you use a RAM module, it's a snap to put anything in there and then transport it to another system! jeff Msg#:18491 *PROJECTS* 05/12/89 11:27:34 From: ED NISLEY To: GREG BELL (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 18392 (RAM LP MODE) If you've got EPROM down at address 0000, you can vector the interrupts up into RAM... and if you make the vectoring code a little smarter than just an LJMP, you don't have to patch the RAM at all! When you first turn the thing on, RAM will be pretty well mushed. Your first interrupt (to whatever vector) must check the RAM vectors (perhaps by adding up the contents of the "vectored-to" locations and comparing them with a checksum) and decide if there is any code in RAM. The first comparison will fail (99.5% of the time if you use a single byte and don't get unlucky about power-on states), so the smart vector code routes the interrupt to an EPROM routine. When you load code into RAM, it includes both the RAM vectors and the correct checksum for the vectored-to locations, so the EPROM code will be satisfied and send the interrupts off to the right place. The smart vector code can set a single bit in the processor so that the remaining interrupts need only check one bit instead of going through the whole checksum process. You probably need another bit to say whether you've run the checksum test, unless you want the vector code to check continuously until you do load something into RAM. Make any sense? Msg#:18539 *PROJECTS* 05/14/89 03:51:01 From: GREG BELL To: GREG BELL (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 18441 (RAM LP MODE) Jeff, Ken, Ed, Paul - thanks for the responses. I like the idea of an interrupt table at a fixed location in RAM. Good idea. One of those "Why didn't I think of that?"s. Another solution is just to put the interrupt code at fixed locations in RAM (some wasted space, though). As for using an EEPROM- I need RAM space anyway, so why not use it for code developement? Just as easy. I'm still having problem with the RAM getting corrupted at power ups/downs. What's difficult to find out is when its happening... the only way I can tell is when an important code byte gets corrupted. So, I can't tell if RAM is getting corrupted on each power up/down or just occassionally. Any ideas on how to do detective work on this? Better yet, I'd like to fix the problem! I understand that the WE/ line can "become" active during power up or down and corrupt the RAM. I tried to fix this by buffering the WR/ line from the 8031 (using an '373 so that when the circuit was off, the output of the buffer is left floating instead of sunk to ground). And, I put a pull-up resistor so that if the 8031 leaves the WR/ line alone, it goes high. Is it possible that the 8031 pulls the line low at some time on power up or down? I know there are chips out there to take care of this sort of thing (Dallas Semi, Maxim, any others?) but they seem overkill. ?? GBell Msg#:18579 *PROJECTS* 05/15/89 11:18:18 From: JAMES O'SULLIVAN To: GREG BELL (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 18392 (RAM LP MODE) Greg- To have RAM mapped at 0000 and have the CPU boot from ROM can be done by intercepting the reset or interrupt vector fetch. You just use some logic to detect when lines A2-A1 are 0, and then enable the ROM. The reset vector should be stored in the first 4 bytes of ROM. Locations 0000h to 0003h would be ROM instead of RAM then, but your CPU would boot from ROM on every power-up, regardless of whether RAM has been corrupted. You would also have to make sure that ROM was enabled only during reads... Jim O'Sullivan Msg#:18602 *PROJECTS* 05/16/89 05:04:09 From: GARY LEAR To: GREG BELL (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 18539 (RAM LP MODE) Texas Instruments and Motorola both make power supply supervision chips. TI's are mostly for conventional micros and they are designated TL770x. The Mot part is for CMOS processors that must remain in valid reset from a low Vcc (1 volt or less). It's number is MC34064. I hope this helps. --Gary Msg#:18606 *PROJECTS* 05/16/89 08:24:01 From: JEFF BACHIOCHI To: GREG BELL (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 18539 (RAM LP MODE) Greg, The MC34064 that Gary mentioned is affordable! The three pin device (TO-92 package) costs about 50 cents. If used as the CS (high enable) on the RAM, it protects against unwanted writes if VCC is not at an appropriate level as during power-up or down. jeff Msg#:18613 *PROJECTS* 05/16/89 15:27:55 From: MARCUS HALL To: GREG BELL (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 18392 (RAM LP MODE) Something to consider is to use a bit in some register somewhere to feed into the address decoding logic. It would be used to cause the ROM to be addressed at 0000 as well as its real address (perhaps 8000?). On power up, this bit would be forced into the state that forces this decoding so that instructions fetched from 0000 come from the ROM. The program jumps to 8003 which is actually the next instruction in the ROM, but now the program is executing in the other (normal) location of the ROM. Next, the program changes the bit register to map 0000-7fff to RAM instead of ROM and sets up the various interrupts, etc. Note that it is not necessary to block write decoding to the RAM since the program will never write to 0000-7fff during "power up" mode (just in case that makes address decoding simpler). Adjust the addresses for whatever is actually appropriate. marcus hall Msg#:19078 *PROJECTS* 05/30/89 21:58:35 From: DAVE EWEN To: JEFF BACHIOCHI (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 18606 (RAM LP MODE) jeff, do you know if the mc34064 thing is identical to the seiko part shown in the motorola hc11 manual? Msg#:19165 *PROJECTS* 06/01/89 14:17:57 From: JEFF BACHIOCHI To: DAVE EWEN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 19078 (RAM LP MODE) Dave, Sorry, I don't have a SEIKO data book to verify that they are in fact interchangable. Odds are NO. Now that I've stated that, odds are now probably YES! jeff Msg#:19674 *PROJECTS* 06/14/89 22:59:52 From: GARY LEAR To: JEFF BACHIOCHI (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 19165 (RAM LP MODE) A definite yes. I spoke to the people at Mot during a M68HC11 seminar about this. The Seiko and Mot parts are equivalent. (MC34064) --Gary Msg#:19675 *PROJECTS* 06/14/89 23:08:53 From: GARY LEAR To: MARCUS HALL (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 18613 (RAM LP MODE) The real problem here is not being able to predict the state of the various control lines while the part is being powered up. No safe assumptions can be made until the power supply is stabalized above the required minimum for a specified period of time. Neither firmware or internal reset logic solutions can help you. It is necessary to prevent inadvertant changes with an *external* monitor of some sort. The MC34064 tied to the positive CS that Jeff mentioned, is one of the simpliest, and most reliable, methods of accomplishing this. --Gary Msg#:18459 *PROJECTS* 05/11/89 13:06:47 From: BILL RICHARDS To: JEFF BACHIOCHI (Rcvd) Subj: MASTER CONTROLLER Dear Jeff, Thanks for your assistance. I still have some questions, though. I downloaded previous messages and ran across the one you sent to Tim Taylor about checking A0-A15 and D0-D7 (since I was getting 12 Mhz on Xtal and 2Mhz on ALE but not getting the led flash on "DO IT"). checking with an ohm meter I got somewhat different results on each line. Some lines were infinite resistance and some were 1.5-2 Mohm or 256kohm when checked from ground and all were infinite when checked to +5. What should the readings be? Was I checking for the correct parameter? I checked the lines from the pins on U11 to +5 and ground; was this the correct procedure? I have access to an HP 16-channel logic analyzer (and someone who knows how to operate it). Should I test each of the IC's to see if I got a bad one (I bought them all "new")? I hope we can get everything working. Thsnks in advance for your help. BILL. Msg#:18569 *PROJECTS* 05/15/89 09:21:19 From: JEFF BACHIOCHI To: BILL RICHARDS (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 18459 (MASTER CONTROLLER) Bill, If measured with all or some of the chips installed you will get a path to ground or +5 depending on the polarity of the meter leads. As you have seen it is quite large. Also notice the outputs of U3 have 4.7k ohm pull-ups, you will see that if measuring any of the *CE to +5V. What you are looking for, at this point, might be a short in either solder (user) or copper (board manufacturer). Most often it is a poorly soldered connection causing a short to some other point or an open which will leave a component unconnected. Close visual inspection is the best procedure (use a magnifying glass if you have one). On any traces or joints that look suspicious, use the ohm meter to verify! jeff Msg#:18590 *PROJECTS* 05/15/89 12:53:33 From: ED NISLEY To: JEFF BACHIOCHI (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 18569 (MASTER CONTROLLER) The absolutely best way to find a solder splash is to spend two hours examining the board with a magnifier, then have someone else walk up behind you, look over your shoulder, and ask "Are those two lines supposed to be connected?" Works every time! Msg#:18485 *PROJECTS* 05/12/89 10:14:48 From: JOE PETERSON To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: IMAGEWISE PROBLEM Steve, I built an ImageWise digitizer a little over a year ago, and I have had a lot of fun with it. I have it hooked up to my Mac, and I wrote some software to access the board and do some image processing. Recently I got around to putting the boards (including my power supply) into an enclosure. It worked fine until I tried to move the two pots (for black and white level) to the outside of the box (I got two 250 ohm case-mount potentiometers). The resulting picture (at highest resolution) seems to favor every other grey level (I can see this on a histogram). It also has white speckles here and there if I raise the white level to a reasonable value. This did not happen when I was using the board mounted pots. I measured the voltage at the V- pin on the flash digitizer chip, and it seemed to be constant for about half a turn on the pot. I ended up experimenting by taking out the two transistors and using simple voltage divider (with the pots) for these voltages. I still get the white speckles and the odd or even grey levels taking charge! What is wrong? Is there a problem with running 6 inch wires from the board to external pots? Is there a way I can do this? Note that at low or medium resolution, I get a smooth histogram and no white specks. Does your software do averaging for lower res? Is there a timing problem at the highest res? I am stuck! I will check this board in a couple of days. I am including my daytime phone and address, however. I would really like to get my system working again. If your are interested in seeing my Mac software, let me know! Thanks in advance, Joe Peterson 993 Mass Ave., #219 Arlington, MA 02174 (508) 671-9749 Msg#:18493 *PROJECTS* 05/12/89 11:43:31 From: ED NISLEY To: JOE PETERSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 18485 (IMAGEWISE PROBLEM) What's happening is that those loooong leads are picking up hash from the rest of the circuit and feeding it into the DAC reference chain through the buffer transistors. Remember that the gray levels are separated by about 10 mV... it's easy to get that much interference! If you add a small capacitor (0.1 uF or so) from each transistor's base to ground you'll cut out most of the interference. More capacitance is better, but start small and work up so you know how close to the edge you are. It's a good idea to twist all the wires together to reduce pickup, and you can probably run just one +5v and ground line to the two pots on the panel; that way you have just four wires instead of six. The ImageWise/PC has 256 gray levels that are only 3 mV apart. We added an amplifier to boost the signal up a bit for the ADC; that way the reference voltage is bigger and things work out better. Msg#:18494 *PROJECTS* 05/12/89 11:46:56 From: STEVE CIARCIA To: JOE PETERSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 18485 (IMAGEWISE PROBLEM) As Ed suggested, extending the pot leads is picking up noise. In the long run if you switch to the new ImageWise/PC, all the black and white level adjustments are software controlled. --Steve Msg#:18499 *PROJECTS* 05/12/89 13:42:23 From: JOE PETERSON To: ED NISLEY (Rcvd) Subj: IMAGEWISE/PC Ed & Steve, thanks for the reply. That sounds like it is probably the cause. This is the first I've heard of the new ImageWise/PC. Could you tell me more about it (i.e. price for kits, interface to computer, power requirements, etc.). Thanks, Joe Msg#:18649 *PROJECTS* 05/17/89 11:20:56 From: ED NISLEY To: JOE PETERSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 18499 (IMAGEWISE/PC) Gosh, time to start reading INK! The ImageWise/PC got three articles all by itself... see issues 6, 7, and 8. The Experimenter's kit with PC board and oddball parts is $400, the A&T version is $800 (in round numbers). Basically, it sticks in your PC's backplane and has both the digitizer and display hardware on board. Resolution is 256x256 (or whatever your TV puts out) pels, it can handle NTSC, PAL, or SECAM sync standards, and uses a full 8 bits for 256 gray levels. Everything is controlled by software (or firmware), so you don't have to unbutton your PC to twiddle the pots any more. Works fine and we'd like to encourage you to snap one up. Fair enough? Msg#:18660 *PROJECTS* 05/17/89 23:09:15 From: JOE PETERSON To: ED NISLEY (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 18649 (IMAGEWISE/PC) Ed, sounds good, but I have a Mac. I guess I am out of luck! Joe Msg#:18673 *PROJECTS* 05/18/89 09:37:32 From: ED NISLEY To: JOE PETERSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 18660 (IMAGEWISE/PC) Hey, you'd be surprised at the phone calls we get from folks who wonder why the ImageWise/PC doesn't fit in a Mac. Makes you wonder, sometimes. Msg#:18504 *PROJECTS* 05/12/89 16:24:39 From: PAUL KINDELL To: GREG BELL (Rcvd) Subj: RAM LP MODE Greg I use a Xicor 2864 eeprom for debug, it only takes a minute to program and if you find a bug you can go in and fix just one location if needed. it works much like a 6264 ram with the only exception being you must delay between writes. I blow them in my eprom programmer and plug it in place of the 2764 until it get the code solid, then I blow the 2764 for keeps and it works great, no more waiting for the 2764's to erase. it is a five volt part so there is no reason you couldnt program it with your 8031 board, add another socket in data memory and download your new program into it, then put the eeprom in the rom socket? you could even add a switch to change the sockets from rom to data memory and back. What do you think? Paul N8 Msg#:18514 *PROJECTS* 05/13/89 03:38:33 From: RONALD LAGUARDIA To: ALL Subj: LIGHT PEN Hi , I'm new to this board and was woondering if anyone new of a light pen project that would be compatible with the pen ports on IBM-PC clone CGA boards. I think this would make a great project and appreciate any help or reply. Thanks Ron Msg#:18526 *PROJECTS* 05/13/89 14:12:51 From: JOE PETERSON To: ED NISLEY (Rcvd) Subj: FIXED IMAGEWISE PROBLEM Steve, please address this message to Ed Nisley as well, since he also responded to my message yesterday. I just wanted to let you know what the problem turned out to be. I had extended the black & white pots to my case, and I was getting noise. Twisting the leads probably helped, but upon measuring the voltages at pins 9 & 10 of the flash digitizer, I noticed a difference of about 60 mv (when the image had good contrast). It turns out that my camera (a CCD unit) was putting out a very weak signal. Tweaking up the peak-to-peak on the camera really helped. Anyway, thanks to you and Ed for the answers yesterday. Joe Msg#:18527 *PROJECTS* 05/13/89 16:13:39 From: RENE NUNEZ To: ED NIESLY Subj: WORKING WITH LCDS You were right, the problems I was having were caused by an open pot, I finally connected the VEE pin directly to ground, and has worked fine since. It appears that the current "Timeline" lcd displays are fully compatible with the Hitachi H2570 that you tested. They use the same HD44780 and HD44100 and pass the test using the "LCDTEST" program with flying colors. Thanks for you help in debugging a dumb problem, I should have seen it earlier. Sorry it took so long to asnwer, but its been hectic at work this passed week, and by the time I got home I just wanted to have dinner and go to bed. ( I am a system programmer with a local bank). Rene. PS. keep up the good work with the FIRMWARE FURNANCE and other related articles Msg#:18588 *PROJECTS* 05/15/89 12:49:26 From: ED NISLEY To: RENE NUNEZ (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 18527 (WORKING WITH LCDS) Given the complexity of the stuff we work with, it's amazing how many baffling problems get fixed by connecting a loose wire. It's also a little embarrassing how much effort we go through to find that wire! Msg#:18764 *PROJECTS* 05/21/89 22:49:22 From: RENE NUNEZ To: ED NISLEY (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 18588 (WORKING WITH LCDS) You are so right about the embarrasing part. Well I have learned my lesson again...... . In any case thanks for the help, and keep up the great articles. Thanks again, you humble ??? reader. rene. Msg#:18662 *PROJECTS* 05/18/89 01:38:10 From: GIL QUIZON To: STEVE CIARCIA/ED NISLEY Subj: Z8 CONTROLLER I'm trying to kludge an EPROM programmer based on the Z8 and the no chip EPROM programmer design from the DDT51 article, and I assume I'll need to program the Z8 in assembly language. Where can I get the manual for the Z8? Steve spoke of about 200 pages of documentation in his original article. I recently ordered what I thought would be the Z8 manual from Micromint, but what I got was a reprint of Steve's article plus instructions on how to assemble the board. I would appreciate any help on this, and thanks. Msg#:18669 *PROJECTS* 05/18/89 08:52:21 From: JEFF BACHIOCHI To: GIL QUIZON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 18662 (Z8 CONTROLLER) Gil, I talked with John at Micromint and they do sell what you want. Ask for the Zilog manual. This use to be two manuals but now it is combined into one. The charge is $20.00. Please give John a call and he will attempt to straighten things out for you! jeff Msg#:18681 *PROJECTS* 05/18/89 16:09:19 From: STEVE CIARCIA To: GIL QUIZON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 18662 (Z8 CONTROLLER) I did a Z8-based EPROM programmer in October '81 BYTE. --Steve Msg#:18688 *PROJECTS* 05/18/89 21:37:14 From: GIL QUIZON To: JEFF BACHIOCHI (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 18669 (Z8 CONTROLLER) Thanks for the info. I'll give micromint a call. Msg#:18795 *PROJECTS* 05/22/89 18:30:29 From: RONALD C. HUTCHINSON To: JEFF BACHIOCHI (Rcvd) Subj: 8051 HELP!!!! I have a BCC-52 with ROM A-B, and 24k RAM. I am trying to develope a program that will be EPROMED and executed on an 8051. I AM NOT an enginerr so I am some lost with all the issues on the 8051. However, I do know about 35 languages. My problem is that I am using 2500A.D. C compiler on an IBM PS/2 model 50.Just ot getting things going, I have compiled a simple "Hello" program and am having no luck. the program merely sends the words "hello world" to the screen. The program of course executes fine in Turbo C. < I compile it wiw!vth -j-j2500A.D. compiler, obtaing a error free compile. I then link with the runtime object file, and Org the progoram at 4000h. then I upl oad the program with ROM A+B utility HEXL. the program data is located at 4000h. When a CALL 4000h is issued from basic, the system locks up. I beleive that the BASIC in the BSS 52 is using the serial interupt and this is the problem. Any Ideas? Msg#:18813 *PROJECTS* 05/23/89 09:13:17 From: JEFF BACHIOCHI To: RONALD C. HUTCHINSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 18795 (8051 HELP!!!!) Ronald, From your RAM/EPROM sizes (24k RAM contiguous? and ROM A&B) it sounds as if you have separated DATA/CODE spaces. If this is so, the HEXL places your code into RAM in DATA space and your CALL expects to find it in CODE space. When you execute the CALL what the system finds is nothing. The dumb processor goes off into never-never land trying to execute nothing! If in fact you have 8k of RAM, then ROM A&B, and then 16k more RAM AND you are in the combined DATA/CODE space the processor will in fact find the assembly code in RAM and execute it. If it does not return properly then blame the code. Remember the 8052 has an extra timer and registers beyond what the 8051 supports. Don't use any of these if you really want you code to be compatible with an 8031/51. jeff Msg#:18836 *PROJECTS* 05/24/89 00:10:49 From: RONALD C. HUTCHINSON To: JEFF BACHIOCHI (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 18813 (8051 HELP!!!!) The system has 8k of code from 0h to 1FFFH, ROM A&B, 16K of RAM, and then instead of EPROM, I have an addition 8k of RAM. I have know way of knowing weather or not I am using space divided up for code/data. I am a programmer, I have just loaded the hex file at 4000h. How do I defrentuate between code and data space? I will have a reader tomorrow and I will look that up in the MCS manual, this sounds like we are going in the right direction. Thanks for your comments and your assistance. Msg#:18849 *PROJECTS* 05/24/89 09:17:14 From: JEFF BACHIOCHI To: RONALD C. HUTCHINSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 18836 (8051 HELP!!!!) Ronald, DATA space is a READ/WRITE area. It is controlled by the RD/WR line of the processor. DATA area usually holds BASIC programs, variables, and the I/O (peripherals). CODE (sometimes called PROGRAM) space is a READ only area. It is controlled by the PSEN line of the processor. CODE area holds the BASIC interpreter (masked within the processor 0000h-1FFFh) and machine language routines (ROM A&B or USER written routines). If the RD/WR and PSEN lines are AND'ed together with a gate and the combined output is used to select an address block then access to either space by the processor will in fact go to the same memory device. This way, the processor can PSEN machine language code from a RAM chip which was load by HEXL into the RAM using the RD/WR line. jeff Msg#:18881 *PROJECTS* 05/24/89 22:58:52 From: RONALD C. HUTCHINSON To: JEFF BACHIOCHI (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 18849 (8051 HELP!!!!) I have Rom A+B in 2000h, to 3fffh, the area 4000h to 9fffh is data and code. Apparently the people at 2500A.D. DO NOT KNOW HOW TO GET THIR COMPILER TO WORK EITHER. We have recompiled the program at link time to 4000k, yet even a program that has on white space between the braces will not execute. Do you use their compiler? Have you seen a compiler that works? Are there any tricks to this that are self evident? Msg#:18897 *PROJECTS* 05/25/89 10:28:03 From: JEFF BACHIOCHI To: RONALD C. HUTCHINSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 18881 (8051 HELP!!!!) Ronald, From afar you seem to have the correct setup! I have not had any contact with the 2500 A.D. stuff. Sorry I can't help here. Got anything to add here ED? jeff Msg#:18801 *PROJECTS* 05/23/89 02:19:33 From: BOB ACKLEY To: ANYONE Subj: SB180>NEC 8401 I am toying with the idea of putting an SB-180 processor in a NEC PC-8401 laptop,using the power cube & regulator, keyboard & 16x80 LCD display from the NEC and the SB-180 for everything else. Does anyone have any suggestions? The NEC is a CPM 64k unit, but uses some chips I can't find listed - maybe NEC or Toshiba proprietary chips? Is there a single chip that will control the keyboard and screen (it's apparently a standard Epson unit). I'm not an engineer, just a semi- competent hardware hacker. Msg#:18844 *PROJECTS* 05/24/89 08:50:21 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: BOB ACKLEY (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 18801 (SB180>NEC 8401) I know it sounds mean, but if you have to ask, then it isn't possible. We have an 8401 here and I can say without any doubt that it's next to impossible to install an SB180 in place of its processor board, even for an experienced engineer. The SB180 needs a serial terminal. The 8401 without a processor board would be left with a bare LCD display and a bare keyboard. You'd need display driver and keyboard decoder circuits before you can even begin to think about the SB180. About the best you can hope to do with the unit is mess with the internal EPROMs to replace the built-in programs, or build an expansion board that plugs in the side to add some peripheral. Msg#:19143 *PROJECTS* 06/01/89 02:32:41 From: BOB ACKLEY To: KEN DAVIDSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 18844 (SB180>NEC 8401) Thanks - was just toying with the idea- but it sure would be a great laptop. Msg#:18818 *PROJECTS* 05/23/89 10:18:24 From: KEVIN RUSSELL To: JEFF BACHIOCHI (Rcvd) Subj: RS-485 NETWORKS I am designing a converter to allow my PC to connect to an RS-485 network via the serial port. Is there any way I can power the conversion circuit (MAX232 + 75176) from the serial port. I estimate the power requirements to be between 40 and 80ma but I am not sure of this yet. Also, in the schematic of the RTC31 you show power connections next to the RS-485 connections. Do these provide the power for the entire board? The application I have in mind is going to be used to collect information from about 1-20 locations in a singe building. Is it possible to provide the power to each of the collection terminals (less than 200ma) from one central location. If it is it would make sense to use 4 conductor cable for the network and just have a central power supply that supplies all elements of the network including the collection terminals and the PC serial interface. I would assume that the entire length of the network would be less than 2000 feet. What type of cable would I need to use to carry that kind of load, and how much loss would there be? What about noise? Should I run unregulated DC on the network and have regulators and filtering on each data collection terminal? Any suggestions you might have will be greatly appreciated. Msg#:18846 *PROJECTS* 05/24/89 08:59:21 From: JEFF BACHIOCHI To: KEVIN RUSSELL (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 18818 (RS-485 NETWORKS) Kevin, My RS232/422/485 converter uses two 75176s and a MAX232. An onboard 5V regulator requires about 110 mA for all three under worse case conditions. If you can provide a small 5V regulated supply it would simplify the circuit. Don't even think about getting that from the serial port unless you modify it by adding power on an unused pin. This is fine as long as you're the only guy that's gonna ever touch it! The screw terminals labled +5V and GND do in fact power the whole board. This was intended to be used as a remote powered network node in some applications. The voltage drop through the wires will be greatly affected by the length and size of the wire. For longer runs power the board at the site or start with 9V or so and add a 5V regulator at each node. jeff Msg#:18864 *PROJECTS* 05/24/89 14:14:31 From: ED NISLEY To: KEVIN RUSSELL (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 18818 (RS-485 NETWORKS) Another thing to worry about is ground loops through the network. If your transmitters are run from separate supplies scattered over the building, they will certainly have different ground potentials. Running the ground current through the network is a Bad Thing that you should avoid. If you run the network stuff from a central power source you'll need optoisolators to get data into and out of each node; that runs up your power budget a little bit, but should be workable. Follow Jeff's suggestion and put local regulators on each board to eliminate hash and whatnot from the cables. What data rate are you using? Msg#:18875 *PROJECTS* 05/24/89 16:58:48 From: KEVIN RUSSELL To: JEFF BACHIOCHI (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 18846 (RS-485 NETWORKS) Thank's for the suggestions. I am not sure I understand why you need two 75176's in your converter though. Are you using one for RS585 and the other for RS422?. What I planned on doing was connecting the Rx and Tx lines to the 75176 via the MAX232 and using the DTR line to enable the transmitter in the same manner as you use the T0 line in the RTC31. Am I missing something? In the RTC-31 design the terminators for the RS-485 lines are located on the PC board. My application is somewhat industrial and the board won't be accessible because of a case. Can I place the terminators on the outside of the case where an end user could place them. I planned on having two RS485/Power connections available at the outside of each controller. This would allow for very simple daisy chaining. The two connections would just be tied together on the inside of the case. I think I will use low dropout regulators on each controller so that my DC source needs to be about 5.75V or greater. The actual nodes on the network will require about 200 ma each. If I assume a maximum of 30 nodes my total current will be 6A. How do I determine how big the cable needs to be hand this type of load. I want to make the interconnection of the nodes as simple as possible. What kind of cable should I use for the RS-485 portion of the interconnection. In the National Databook I have it shows the terminators as being 120 ohms. Does this depend on the cable being used? I really appreciate your help on this, unfortunately I am not a EE, just a software jockey who enjoys twiddling with a hot iron once in a while. Kevin Msg#:18876 *PROJECTS* 05/24/89 16:59:31 From: KEVIN RUSSELL To: ED NISLEY (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 18864 (RS-485 NETWORKS) The data rate is not really critical and will be limited by the fact that I am going to use a PC as a sort of master controller. To avoid hassling with collisions etc. each node will transmit only when invited to by the central PC. The nodes will have a maximum of 24K of data that will be transmitted to the PC no more than once a day. I envision the PC interrogating each node one by one for all of the transactions that it has. If I run at 9600 baud and have less than 10% overhead for protocol/checksum etc then each node could be interrogated in under 30 seconds. If I had a maximum of 30 nodes then I could download all information stored on the entire network to the PC in under 15 minutes. This is an activity that can take place at night after all the impatient humans have gone home. I am more concerned with simplicity and reliability than I am with performance. I replied to a message from Jeff with a description of some of the physical aspects of the network layout. I don't understand ground loops and am curious if I need opto-isolators based on that layout. Thanks for your help. Kevin Msg#:18890 *PROJECTS* 05/25/89 09:04:31 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: ED NISLEY (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 18864 (RS-485 NETWORKS) Well... One of the biggest advantages of RS-422/485 is that you don't have to worry about ground loops. Since the interface uses a balanced pair, you're only interested in the differential voltage and not absolute voltage. I know what you're saying about being careful while distributing power via the net cabling, but as long as the net doesn't loop back to the power source and as long as each node is independent except for the net connection, ground loops shouldn't be an issue. Msg#:18896 *PROJECTS* 05/25/89 10:22:37 From: JEFF BACHIOCHI To: KEVIN RUSSELL (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 18875 (RS-485 NETWORKS) Kevin, The only reason for two 75176s is that RS-422 is a full duplex communication system requiring two twisted pairs. It is run differential like RS-485 but not meant for more than two nodes since each has its own transmission pair. In general... #20 gage copper (single-strand) wire has about 10 ohms (DC resistance) per 1000 feet. (#30 = 100ohms and #10 = 1ohm) Depending on the load presented by the board you are powering remotely, you can figure the max series resistance you can put between the power and the board and still maintain a comfortable VCC. Remember you will be adding series resistance in both the ground and VCC legs. The 75176 drivers will drive a 54 ohm termination to a minimum of 1.5 volts (differential). The receivers will switch with as little as a 0.2 volt swing. Again you can calculate the losses of series resistance and decide on a wire size for the length you are running. It is wise to give yourself a hefty safety margin here to avoid borderline operations. jeff Msg#:18911 *PROJECTS* 05/25/89 15:11:01 From: ED NISLEY To: KEVIN RUSSELL (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 18876 (RS-485 NETWORKS) Sounds like you're on the right track! Are you planning to break those 24K blocks into smaller chunks? You may have trouble getting all that across without errors; it would be a shame to have to retransmit the whole smash several times just because one bit failed... But, all in all, your application isn't so time-critical that you have to squeeze the last itsy of performance out of the network. Have at it and keep us informed! Msg#:18912 *PROJECTS* 05/25/89 15:20:10 From: ED NISLEY To: KEN DAVIDSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 18890 (RS-485 NETWORKS) Not so fast... Consider the following thought experiment: you have two nodes on the net, each connected to "local ground" near the node. The two grounds are bonded to a common point at the power distribution panel (as they should be!) but are not otherwise connected. Now, if you have an electrical fault that raises one of the local grounds above the transceiver's input voltage rating (a whopping -7 to +12 volts for the 75176), one or another (or both) of the transceivers will get fried. Although that's not normal operation, to be sure, just a few volts of ground offset is enough to push the input voltages out of spec. Given that it's easy to get a few volts of offset, the problem may be messier than we can imagine. Msg#:18913 *PROJECTS* 05/25/89 15:22:32 From: ED NISLEY To: JEFF BACHIOCHI (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 18896 (RS-485 NETWORKS) Don't forget to bypass the supply right at the transceiver, with enough energy storage to maintain the voltage through whatever you think the worst-case data pattern will be... the impedance of those long wires will appear in series with the driver, so the voltage and current ratings don't mean very much if you don't have local bypassing. Msg#:18918 *PROJECTS* 05/25/89 17:02:21 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: ED NISLEY (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 18912 (RS-485 NETWORKS) My point in saying, "as long as each node is independent except for the net connection" was supposed to imply that there weren't any local ground connections. Now that I think about it, such a restriction is probably silly. Sensors are likely to have local power supplies with the resulting local grounds. I also wanted to clarify that the ground-loop problem was completely unrelated to the RS-485 connection. It's only a power supply issue. (And at one time you thought it was silly that Steve and I sent messages through the BBS when we could just walk down the hall. Hell, you're 10 feet away!) Msg#:18919 *PROJECTS* 05/25/89 17:03:45 From: KEVIN RUSSELL To: ED NISLEY (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 18911 (RS-485 NETWORKS) I'm waiting to see what gets published as far as network protocols go before I commit to anything. Do you know how soon this will be coming up. Am I correct in assuming that this is coming? Am I safe to not use opto-isolators if the entire network is powered from one central source? Thanks again for your help! Msg#:18942 *PROJECTS* 05/26/89 09:58:54 From: ED NISLEY To: KEN DAVIDSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 18918 (RS-485 NETWORKS) I still think it's silly. I do lots of silly things... Agreed... any connection between "things that are far apart" may give you ground loop problems; the catch here is that a wiring scheme allowing 1200 meters of wire is bound to get someone into trouble. We've gotta come up with a bidirectional optoisolator for this thing pretty quick! Msg#:18944 *PROJECTS* 05/26/89 10:10:15 From: ED NISLEY To: KEVIN RUSSELL (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 18919 (RS-485 NETWORKS) I just threw the article diskette over the transom to Curt, so (presuming he doesn't throw it back covered with ichor) it will appear in Issue 10. And you thought time flew like an arrow! If you're powering everything from a central source you're in good shape as long as the nodes don't have ANY connection to the local electrical ground. This can raise some safety problems, because you don't want the case floating with respect to nearby objects; you've got to isolate all of the circuitry from the case, then bond the case (and all touch-able metal parts) to local safety ground. Or just double insulate everything and hope for the best! Msg#:18948 *PROJECTS* 05/26/89 10:28:31 From: JEFF BACHIOCHI To: ED NISLEY (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 18913 (RS-485 NETWORKS) Ed, I don't think we're talking about optos to prevent grounding problems, it's this lightning thing! We don't want the copper house to go up in flames! jeff Msg#:18950 *PROJECTS* 05/26/89 10:34:36 From: ED NISLEY To: JEFF BACHIOCHI (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 18948 (RS-485 NETWORKS) The only sure cure for lightning problems is a house somewhere else. I'll work on the stuff I understand... Msg#:19045 *PROJECTS* 05/30/89 09:50:35 From: STEVE CIARCIA To: ED NISLEY (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 18911 (RS-485 NETWORKS) Actually, guys, we are talking both problems (BTW, I'm only 75 feet down the hall and I'm using this thing too. Should we call an engineering meeting and go to the conference room?). We need to have optoisolators both for groundloop and lightning protection. I'll have 500 feet of wire on 3 nodes before the week is out and so we better come up with some answers soon. Anyone got as RS-485 optical isolator circuit that we can try? --STeve Msg#:19050 *PROJECTS* 05/30/89 11:45:28 From: BOB PADDOCK To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 19045 (RS-485 NETWORKS) Try looking trough a resant Maxuim or Linear Technology app book. There was an example circuit using one of there power supply chips. Msg#:19074 *PROJECTS* 05/30/89 21:36:10 From: DAVE EWEN To: ED NISLEY (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 18912 (RS-485 NETWORKS) say Ed, all this discussion on serial links and ground loops reminds me... could you opto-isolate rs-485? isn't MIDI serial? i remember it is opto-isolated. Msg#:19097 *PROJECTS* 05/31/89 10:02:58 From: STEVE CIARCIA To: BOB PADDOCK (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 19050 (RS-485 NETWORKS) Thanks, I'll take a look but I already know the answer. Everyone isolates the input side of the driver chips and uses a floating power supply. The power supply then becomes the weak isolation link with usually only 600V of isolation instead of 2500V with optics. I'm looking for a RS-485 in/out isolator. I just don't think it can be easily done. --STeve Msg#:19111 *PROJECTS* 05/31/89 12:18:26 From: BOB PADDOCK To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 19097 (RS-485 NETWORKS) Yes you got the right answer; but there is some thing else to consider with the optos. Even if the optos are 2500V isolation what happens when you use an 8 pin DIP package? The PC board under the opto, and the pins of the opto, also must maintain the isolation. Internal isolation doesn't get you a thing if you get arcs arcoss the leads. The solution is to use non conductive wire (ie fiber optic cable), but then it woudn't be a 485 network would it :-) Msg#:19155 *PROJECTS* 06/01/89 09:13:58 From: ED NISLEY To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 19045 (RS-485 NETWORKS) The trick with RS-485 is that it's bidirectional... and you don't have any control lines to tell you which direction is which. What we need is a differential window comparator in each direction: when the signal exceeds a certain value (either + or - on the twisted pair), the comparator turns on a driver that passes the signal in that direction. Each window comparator disables the driver in the other direction so you don't get locked up with both drivers on. This gives you a pair of unidirectional lines that you can run through a pair of standard isolators... and away you go. The network protocol has to allow for the turn-on and turn-off delays, but this should be no big deal. MIDI (and standard serial ports, in general) are easy to isolate because they are unidirectional in the first place. Msg#:19561 *PROJECTS* 06/13/89 02:42:37 From: GARY LEAR To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 19045 (RS-485 NETWORKS) Steve, I mentioned a circuit that I developed for my robot some time ago. It provides the equivalent of a RS-485 multi-point hook-up, but does not meet RS-485 specs. Let me know if you are interested in some details. --Gary P.S. It is low current too. Msg#:18833 *PROJECTS* 05/23/89 23:08:24 From: PAUL DEVEY To: ALL Subj: GT180 Hi! I was wandering if there is source code avaliable for the GT180 board. I have recently acquired an ACRTC board for my PC. It has schematics and everything. Alas no software. I have the ACRTC book but am finding it a slow go. Any source would be appreciated. Also I am about to buy a SB180 board and SCSI host adapter. I was wandering if the source code is avaliable for the IBM keyboard interface. My self and a friend have done several projects with the 64180 and like it mucho better than our PCs. I can not complain too much about Intel's 'feature free' processors. They bring home the butter. I would appreciate any feedback. This is a two way street. If I can be of assistance, let me know. I will be on the board from 1-2 times a week. Thanks guys. Msg#:18842 *PROJECTS* 05/24/89 08:41:12 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: PAUL DEVEY (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 18833 (GT180) There is some GT180 code in the CP/M files area, but nothing for the keyboard interface. Msg#:18851 *PROJECTS* 05/24/89 09:23:13 From: STEVE CIARCIA To: PAUL DEVEY (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 18833 (GT180) A friend, Roger James, has written code for making a graphics terminal out of a GT180/SB180. I believe it has a keyboard interface. If not, Just hang in there. Bill Curlew just wrote an article for CC INK on converting the IBM XT/AT keyboards to parallel ASCII output. --STeve Msg#:19065 *PROJECTS* 05/30/89 18:15:24 From: ROBERT MCILVAINE To: ALEXANDER SCHNEIDER (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 17883 (R/C AND SONAR) Very interesting thread about anti-gravity. You might find the article on time travel in June DISCOVER page 58 amusing. It poses the idea of short time distorts using wormholes. Enjoy! Msg#:19126 *PROJECTS* 05/31/89 18:34:00 From: ALEXANDER SCHNEIDER To: ROBERT MCILVAINE (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 19065 (R/C AND SONAR) You can do almost anything with an extremely concentrated gravitational field. The question is how do we get one with practical means? Msg#:19147 *PROJECTS* 06/01/89 07:56:37 From: BOB PADDOCK To: ALEXANDER SCHNEIDER (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 19126 (R/C AND SONAR) How about using a Canducues coil (Spelling?), or one of Hoopers (sp?) "Motional E-Feild Coils"? Msg#:19168 *PROJECTS* 06/01/89 15:36:09 From: ALEXANDER SCHNEIDER To: BOB PADDOCK (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 19147 (R/C AND SONAR) Right, to make a wormhole. Msg#:19201 *PROJECTS* 06/02/89 10:10:53 From: BOB PADDOCK To: ALEXANDER SCHNEIDER (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 19168 (R/C AND SONAR) But why do you need a wormhole? Maybe it{ would help if you defined a wormhole for me (by the way I did read the artical, seems more complicated that nessesar{). Msg#:19214 *PROJECTS* 06/02/89 15:46:53 From: ALEXANDER SCHNEIDER To: BOB PADDOCK (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 19201 (R/C AND SONAR) Apparently all the time travel fanatics suggest wormholes because their intense gravitational fields theoretically can provide some interesting properties. If two wormholes in different places at the same time "joined" at the bottom and you go in one, you'd come out the other. If they are at different times, you go in one, come out at a different time. Of course the wormhole theory of time travel is unrealistic in that you can't very well make a wormhole, and it would be extremely hard to use to any advantage. Msg#:19067 *PROJECTS* 05/30/89 19:11:07 From: DAVID WILHIDE To: JEFF BACHIOCHI (Rcvd) Subj: EPROM ON BCC52 Is it possible to use 12.5 volt EPROMS with the BCC52? If so, do R7 and R8 need to be changed? Also, can the 12 volt supply (turned up some) for the serial port be used as the EPROM programming voltage (connected through J3)? Msg#:19164 *PROJECTS* 06/01/89 14:06:29 From: JEFF BACHIOCHI To: DAVID WILHIDE (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 19067 (EPROM ON BCC52) David, Indeed! 12.5 volt EPROMS were not available at the time the BCC52 was designed. That is why there is no reference to it in the manual. NO MODIFICATION is necessary. Since the UPS21 (21 volt supply) was introduced for the original BCC52, only 21 volts was available. This product has been modified now and is the UPS21/12.5, supplying either VPP. Incidentally, 12 volts is enough to program most of these CMOS EPROMs. Specs don't guarantee retention at this voltage so experiment with each new manufacture's chips you use! jeff Msg#:19180 *PROJECTS* 06/01/89 19:26:16 From: DAVID WILHIDE To: JEFF BACHIOCHI (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 19164 (EPROM ON BCC52) Thanks again for your help! You all have undoubtedly the best technical support I've ever seen for any product. Dave Wilhide Msg#:19085 *PROJECTS* 05/30/89 23:37:30 From: ED JOHNSON To: RAYMOND FRANCIS WENNINGER Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 13514 (IMAGEWISE DIGITIZER) I have been playing with the TI source and have been making some progress, but really need to find some info on "dithering" (if that's what it's called). I'd like to convert the grey scale into bit-image for sending out to the printer or further processing with other graphics programs. Can anyone steer me toward some info on these kind of algorithms? Thanks... Msg#:19106 *PROJECTS* 05/31/89 10:49:11 From: STEVE CIARCIA To: ED JOHNSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 19085 (IMAGEWISE DIGITIZER) Call the people at Hogware that wrote ZIP. They do the best dithering that I've ever seen. --Steve Msg#:19224 *PROJECTS* 06/02/89 21:55:18 From: LARRY HOLLIBAUGH To: MIKE GONZALEZ (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 13541 (DDT51-C) Please to tell me what is the status of DDT51.C? (Is this the same as DEBUG31?) I'm a C programmer in love with the DDT-51 and would like to hack it some. No need to reinvent the wheel if it's already converted. If Ed is listening, maybe he'll tell me what I want to hear. ;-) -Larry Msg#:19237 *PROJECTS* 06/05/89 09:01:10 From: ED NISLEY To: LARRY HOLLIBAUGH (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 19224 (DDT51-C) No opinion from these quarters! Msg#:19348 *PROJECTS* 06/08/89 00:23:23 From: MIKE GONZALEZ To: LARRY HOLLIBAUGH (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 19224 (DDT51-C) Larry , sorry for not replying quickly. I did not place the C version of DDT51 cause I did not get a reply from Ed Nisley requesting to upload the code, so I have uploaded it to an El Paso,Tx BBS. I'll give the number : (915)821-3638 THE PASS. Filename: DEBUG31C Once you logon you might have to get validated first, usually takes about 1 day. Then once you've been validated, go to the FILE area. And then do an L for locate. Type DEBUG for partial name lookup. I forgot what compression I used, so this should find the file for you. Download it and let me know how it went ... Mike G. - El Paso, Texas Msg#:19366 *PROJECTS* 06/08/89 10:08:16 From: ED NISLEY To: MIKE GONZALEZ (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 19348 (DDT51-C) Whoops! Either I missed the message, assumed you were going to upload it anyway, or just plain screwed up. In any event, if you'll accept a belated request... "Sure, how about uploading your C version of the DDT-51 code? There are a couple of folks around here (me included) who'd like to see how it all works!" (If you can imagine a little glyph to indicate an attempt to recall messages from the past, combined with an expression of remorse over forgetting, stirred with a slightly embarrassed grin, pencil it in here ___. Perhaps ?-} will suffice...) Msg#:19783 *PROJECTS* 06/16/89 22:25:21 From: LARRY HOLLIBAUGH To: MIKE GONZALEZ (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 19348 (DDT51-C) Thanks, Mike! I've been so busy I haven't been on for ages, but the C version will sure make my. We should share improvements somehowow. Well, I'm off to Texas :-) -Larry Msg#:19245 *PROJECTS* 06/05/89 15:30:45 From: PATRICK MASLEN To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 17458 (THANKS FOR THE RESPONSE) You are right ofcourse regarding your absence from BYTE . I thought that you might have been on leave. Looks like I'll have to subsribe to INK. I'm Very interested in data encryption and was wondering if you were planning on anything along those lines in the futue? Msg#:19288 *PROJECTS* 06/06/89 11:03:57 From: STEVE CIARCIA To: PATRICK MASLEN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 19245 (THANKS FOR THE RESPONSE) I don't personally plan to build an encryptor but it does sound like the kind of project that might just happen around INK. --Steve Msg#:19251 *PROJECTS* 06/05/89 18:16:53 From: MARC DAVID BUMBLE To: CIARCIA Subj: DEBUG31.ARC TO .PAS FILE? HOW DO I DOWNLOAD THE DEBUG31.ARC TO A MACINTOSH. I WAS HOPING TO RE WRITE THE CODE INTO C SO THAT I COULD USE IT ON A MAC SE. I HAVE A COPY OF LIGHTSPEED C TO PROCESS MY CODE BUT I CANT TRANSLATE THE .ARC FILES. IS THERE A FILE TO UNCRUNCH THESE FILES? THANKS VERY MUCH FOR YOUR TIME -- Msg#:19268 *PROJECTS* 06/06/89 02:51:25 From: ROBERT EUGSTER To: MARC DAVID BUMBLE (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 19251 (DEBUG31.ARC TO .PAS FILE?) Marc, Awhile back I uploaded ARCMAC.SIT in area 14. One of the files it contains ARCPOP.ARDecompresses ARC files so that we Mac'ers can read them ARCMAC is stuff so you will need Ray Laus{stuffit to decompress it. If you don't have Stuffit, I uploaded Arcpop itself into area 14s in an uncompressed format. It's listed as ARCPOP.MAC... (hope you got all that 'cause I don't think I can repeat it:) ... Robert... Msg#:19287 *PROJECTS* 06/06/89 10:05:33 From: WILLIAM W. CHRISTIANSON To: JEFF BACHIOCHI (Rcvd) Subj: PARALLEL PRINTER DRI I'M LOOKING FOR INFORMATION ON HOW TO GET A STROBE LINE OUT ON THE PARALLEL PORT OF A BCC52 TO DRIVE A PARALLEL PRINTER. PLEASE LEAVE MSG AS SOON AS POSSIBLE AS WE ARE IN A TIME CRUNCH. THANKS FOR WHAT EVER HELP ANYONE CAN OFFER. SIGNED WILLIAM CHRISTIANSON, GREEN BAY, WI. Msg#:19313 *PROJECTS* 06/07/89 07:48:50 From: JEFF BACHIOCHI To: WILLIAM W. CHRISTIANSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 19287 (PARALLEL PRINTER DRI) William, The easiest way is to use one of the other port's bits as a strobe and the third port as an input port for the feedback status from the printer. There are in fact ways of setting up the PPI for stobed output. Refer to a data book which covers the 8255 and check mode 1. Mode 1 allows 2 independent strobed input and/or output ports. The pinouts are a bit different for each choice. For instance "A4" sets up PA0-7 as 8-bit data out, PC7 as the output strobe, and PC6 as the input acknowledge. (PB0-7 as data, PC1 as strobe, and PC2 as ack). In this case the strobe goes active on the rising edge of the data write to the port. In the simple example above you would have to write data, write the strobe high, and then low again (3 times as many writes). I encourage you to get your hands on a data book. The 8255 is capable of many interesting configurations! jeff Msg#:19292 *PROJECTS* 06/06/89 17:10:53 From: JAMES O'SULLIVAN To: KEN DAVIDSON (Rcvd) Subj: BCC180 Ken- I just purchased a BCC180 kit, and I have a few questions. First, why weren't MAX232 ic's used instead of the MC145406? I suppose two '232 chips would be required instead of one MC145406, but it seems like a small price to pay for eliminating two out of three power supplies. Also, two logic level shifters would have been left over, so DCD or CTS could have been included in the auxilliary serial port. Second, is there a way to make the BASIC180 compiler autosense the baud rate, or at least not reconfigure it for a set baud rate when called from the monitor? I switch the console between a terminal at 19.2K and a 2400 baud modem, and it would be much more convenient if I didn't have to switch EPROMS also. I guess NOPing out the port configuration code in the compiler would do it - the port would be configured by the monitor and stay that way when the compiler is called. Alas, I have no idea where and how much to NOP out, and even if this would work. Finally, I would like to use the auxilliary serial port as a second communications port from within a task. The BASIC manual indicates that I have to write a driver. Where could I find out how to access and program the second serial port? Thanks in advance!! Jim Msg#:19317 *PROJECTS* 06/07/89 08:55:48 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: JAMES O'SULLIVAN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 19292 (BCC180) The MAX232 may seem like a panacea, but there are always tradeoffs in any design decision. In addition to needing two chips, you need three large electrolytic capacitors for each chip for the DC-to-DC converter on the chip. That translates to several times the board area necessary. Each MAX232 costs several times what an MC145406 costs, so price is also a factor. Finally, +/-12V is available (and should always be available) on the BCC bus, so it makes sense to take advantage of that to reduce cost and board size. When you have an application that absolutely must run on just +5V, the MAX232 is nice. Otherwise, it's a waste. As for autobauding the console, that may work when you are running the compiler, but what happens when you DISKCOMPILE a program to EPROM and want that program to autostart? Are you going to have to press a key every time the system is reset so it can sense the baud rate? Any decision about how to handle the console baud rate while entering the compiler also affects how it's handled while entering a ROMed program. The decision was made to hard code the baud rate into the compiler so it would also be hard coded into compiled programs. One of the appendixes describes how to change the default baud rate. You should have received a supplement to the BASIC-180 manual that describes how to implement a driver to support bidirectional communication using the auxiliary serial port. Look around for it and let me know if you don't have it. Msg#:19345 *PROJECTS* 06/07/89 21:56:07 From: JAMES O'SULLIVAN To: KEN DAVIDSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 19317 (BCC180) Thanks for the information. I didn't know about the capacitor requirement of the MAX232. Tradeoffs, tradeoffs! The BCC180's a nice little machine. I set up a gateway to my PC via the auxiliary port, and hooked up a modem to the console. So I can dial up the '180 and check home control from a BASIC task, then exit to the monitor and log into my PC BBS by using the Emulate command in the monitor. What fun. By the way, I didn't receive the supplement describing implementation of a communications driver, and would appreciate getting it. Let me know how to get a copy, or send it to 361 Crescent Drive, Palm Beach, FL. 33480. Thanks! -Jim Msg#:19374 *PROJECTS* 06/08/89 14:52:02 From: AL AUGUSTINAS To: JEFF BACHIOCHI (Rcvd) Subj: RTC AND RS232/RS485 Would it be possible to use the RTC in an application in which both an RS485 connection, to another RTC, and an RS232 connection to a PC or other host is required ? The RS232 connection could be polled by the RTC by using an I/O pin looking for a Request To Send from the host. It is acceptable for the RTC to ignore RS485 communication while servicing the RS232 host link. From my initial look at the schematics in CC Ink I thought not. But, the Micromint ad brought up my hopes when I read: '100-19200 bps RS-232 and/or RS-485 serial port' I was keying on the AND in and/or. Thanks in advance for any info. -Al Msg#:19384 *PROJECTS* 06/08/89 17:24:39 From: STEVE CIARCIA To: AL AUGUSTINAS (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 19374 (RTC AND RS232/RS485) It is really OR and not AND. but, we have another IO board in the works for the RTC that has another RS-232 serial port. Other than that, go back a few issues in CC INK and look for Bill Curlews article on creating bit-banging serial ports on an 8031. Using one of the parallel lines as a 232 port, you would still have the console 485 port. Tricky software if you aren't careful but who's watching? --Steve Msg#:19404 *PROJECTS* 06/09/89 08:04:35 From: AL AUGUSTINAS To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 19384 (RTC AND RS232/RS485) Thanks, OR is what I thought, 'was hoping for a miracle I guess . I'll be looking forward to the I/O board with RS-232. In the mean time I'll look for the issue with Bill Curlews article, as you said it sounds pretty tricky. Thanks again. -Al Msg#:19422 *PROJECTS* 06/09/89 15:39:29 From: JEFF BACHIOCHI To: AL AUGUSTINAS (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 19374 (RTC AND RS232/RS485) Al, As shown in the schematics both mediums serve the same input bit. A bit of surgery and a DPDT relay could do just what you suggest! Not intended for entry into the most beautiful board contest but functional! jeff Msg#:19424 *PROJECTS* 06/09/89 16:08:12 From: DARLING PETERS To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: Z8671 BASED COMPUTER SOME YEARS AGO, STEVE PUBLISHED AN ARTICLE ON A ZILOG Z8671 BASED COMPUTER USING A ZILOG Z6132 QUASI STATIC RAM. NOW THAT ZILOG HAS DISCONTINUED THE Z6132 RAM CHIP, IT WOULD BE NICE IF WE KNEW HOW TO INTERFACE A REGULAR RAM CHIP TO REGULAR 8K x 8 RAM CHIP. CAN WE HAVE AN INTERFACE CIRCUIT TO INTERFACE TO THE Z8671 PLEASE? I REALISE THAT THIS MAY MEAN PICKING YOUR BRAIN A LITTLE BIT BECAUSE THIS IS AN OLD PROJECT BUT I AM NOW USED TO THE Z8671 COMPUTER AND I HATE TO THROW IT AWAY NOW. THANKS Msg#:19425 *PROJECTS* 06/09/89 16:13:06 From: JEFF BACHIOCHI To: DARLING PETERS (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 19424 (Z8671 BASED COMPUTER) Darling, (No offense this seems strange) Call Micromint (203)-871-6170. Ask for the BCC11 manual (minimum charge) This has complete schematics for a Z8 using standard static RAMs. jeff Msg#:19460 *PROJECTS* 06/10/89 23:58:28 From: PAUL HITCHCOCK To: DARLING PETERS (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 19424 (Z8671 BASED COMPUTER) Darling, interfacing other memory chips to the Z8 is pretty straightforward (depending, of course, on the chosen address decoding scheme). If you will leave your mailing address, I will send you a description of how Steve's orginal Z8 project can be modified to use 8Kx8 static RAMs (e.g. 6264s). If you need to use *DRAMs*, I'm afraid that's a bit out of my league. Msg#:19442 *PROJECTS* 06/10/89 01:52:00 From: DAVID EWING To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: IMAGEWISE I'm new on this BBS and I'm calling long distance from Fort Smith, Arkansas. I haven't been able to locate the pin out specs to the CA3306 RCA chip - the 6 bit A/D converter used in the Video Digitizer project found in the Byte on May/June 1987. The circuit diagram did not show where the power pins are located, and I need to know this before putting it together. I would also appreciate the timing relationships between chip enables, the clock pin, and the Data out, since I wish to increase the resolution to 512 x 244. A discription of the pin 8 (Phase), pin 4 (Vz), and pin 16 (RefC) would also be nice, but isn't necessary. Thank you. I thought that a possible project for the future could include a Color video digitizer. I think that it could be done with 3 A/D converters and some curcuit which converts NSTC to RBG - which I don't know how to make. -David Ewing Msg#:19509 *PROJECTS* 06/12/89 10:13:16 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: DAVID EWING (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 19442 (IMAGEWISE) Power for the CA3306 goes to pin 12 and ground is on pin 3. While we provided you with the basic digitizer design, you're going to have to do some work on your own if you want to redesign it for higher resolution or color. Contact RCA directly for a data sheet containing timing diagrams. We've discussed long and hard doing a color digitizer here, and always came to the conclusion that it would end up costing as much as the rest of the digitizers on the market, and since they already do the job well enough, why reinvent the wheel? You won't see such a beast come out of here any time soon. Msg#:19524 *PROJECTS* 06/12/89 15:43:22 From: STEVE CIARCIA To: DAVID EWING (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 19442 (IMAGEWISE) Actually, both the serial ImageWise and ImageWise/PC can do color digitizing. Instead of a color frame grabber, however, they require three sucessive pictures with colored filters (R,G,B) which are added together to produce a final VGA compatible color picture. See previous messages. --Steve Msg#:19837 *PROJECTS* 06/18/89 04:18:19 From: DAVID EWING To: KEN DAVIDSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 19509 (IMAGEWISE) Why reinvent the wheel?.....for the fun of it! (and it is a learning experience.) Thanks for the reply. -David Msg#:19838 *PROJECTS* 06/18/89 04:20:35 From: DAVID EWING To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 19524 (IMAGEWISE) I do know that it is possible to use filters, but that is with camaras. What do you do with a image off a VCR? By the way, is there any good source for the color filters? (I haven't seen any off hand.) -David Msg#:19873 *PROJECTS* 06/19/89 06:33:13 From: KELLY JORDAN To: DAVID EWING Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 19838 (IMAGEWISE) David, If you look at the Amiga market, there is at least one Video colour splitter. There is one from Perfect Vision, that sells for about $85US from InterComputing,Inc at 1-800-531-4747. There is also a colour splitter from a company called SunRize, but never heard anything about it. The one from Perfect vision is supposed to work pretty good. 73, Kelly Jordan VE3OTK Msg#:19890 *PROJECTS* 06/19/89 09:49:04 From: STEVE CIARCIA To: DAVID EWING Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 19838 (IMAGEWISE) We just used three cellophane pieces (red green and blue) that I picked up at a toy store. The final VGA color pictures still looked fine. I would presume that a place like Edmund Scientific must sell regulation filters. --Steve Msg#:19472 *PROJECTS* 06/11/89 13:36:04 From: MICHAEL HAPP To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: HCS - GENERAL Steve, I understand that the HCS is really out of production, however is it possible to still get a PCB (read kit) for the project, or in your opinion should I wait for the HCS 2? I have a couple of homebrew 680X systems running now, and was looking into using them as a development source for the HCS. I am really interested in the home control area, but time/budget constraints kept me from investigating the HCS when it was originally introduced. I am also very interested in the RTC concept using RS-485 for communication, so will be looking forward to the development in that area. The previous constraints are lifted now so I am better able to respond to demand. Thanks for your time... <* Michael *> Msg#:19526 *PROJECTS* 06/12/89 15:59:17 From: STEVE CIARCIA To: MICHAEL HAPP (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 19472 (HCS - GENERAL) I have a few assembled HCSs and a few kits. What I don't have is the original transformers. To use the HCS without it requires hardwiring in a regular +5/+12/-12V supply and an X-10 PL-513 module. It has been sucessfully done by a number of people but, for obvious reasons, it is unsupported by us and you'd be on your own. --Steve PS. We have a sheet describing the conversion. It's not difficult. Msg#:19545 *PROJECTS* 06/13/89 00:26:07 From: MICHAEL HAPP To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 19526 (HCS - GENERAL) Thanks for the prompt reply... How would I go about getting the information that you mentioned? And the next question (wouldn't you know it, there'd be another question...) is more what you think would be a good decision... go ahead with the HCS now, or wait for the HCS II... I am planning on getting a RTC31 for use as an entry into the RS-485 area (I just received my copy of the EIA Standard publication on RS-485), and would like to implement it throughout my house with a "zoned" controller concept. I've noticed through my work (I'm a computer engineer with Boeing Computer Services - yup, the airplanes) that there are quite a few devices using RS-485 linked embedded controllers for specialized applications. From earlier discussion, I think that I understand that you are planning an "upgrade" to the HCS to include RS-485 communications... Is that true? I'd be interested in hearing more about it in upcoming issues of INK (I jumped on the INK bandwagon at its inception). Thanks for your time! <* Michael *> Msg#:19587 *PROJECTS* 06/13/89 11:46:04 From: STEVE CIARCIA To: MICHAEL HAPP (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 19545 (HCS - GENERAL) For the current HCS mods leave a note for Leo Taylor. Regarding HCSII, realize that it will be a different animal entirely. Ken and I envision it as an RS-485 networked control system containing a variety of computers, among them the RTC-52, BCC180, BCC52CX, and an AT. Initially, my configuration will be an AT and the RTC52s. Ken seems to like BCC180s. In either case, distributed processing in HCSII (albeit more powerful and flexible) will cost considerably more than HCSI. If you plan only simple lighting control such expense might not be warranted and you should stick with a modified HCS I. A couple full blown RTC52/RTCIO nodes and an AT will cost a few $grand. Finally, if you think you are going to play with RS-485 and either INK-net or MC-net, then get an RTC-52. At the present time, the networking software only works with the 80C52-BASIC chip (any RTC-31 can be upgraded by pluging in the 80C52 chip of course). --Steve Msg#:19592 *PROJECTS* 06/13/89 13:15:26 From: MICHAEL HAPP To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 19587 (HCS - GENERAL) Thanks Steve... That helps my decision quite a bit. I think that I will go ahead with the HCS and add the modification. That path leaves me with the 680X develpment systems that I currently have running, and enables me to still pursue the RS-485 development as an additional feature of my control environment. I'll look for the mods by Leo Taylor. Thanks again.. <* Michael *> Msg#:19473 *PROJECTS* 06/11/89 14:46:47 From: VINCENT ARON CATE To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: IDEA FOR CIRCUIT CELLAR I was thinking about deviced to help get pictures out of China and I like the idea of a digital camera that can send its pictures over the phone to a FAX machine. In your September 1983 byte article you describe a camera that uses a 64K bit chip and has 128 by 256 resolution. If we can find a similar chip that is 4 Mbit or even better 16 Mbit it should be possible to make a camera with 1000 by 2000 or maybe even 2000 by 4000. This is plenty good enough for newspaper pictures. With the sensor, a microcontroller, a little bit of low power static ram, software to do FAX picture compression, a couple of modem chips, and some sort of phone connection it seems you could have a small device (very few chips) that did not cost very much and was able to send back good pictures. Is a DRAM a good way to get high resolution pictures today? If not can you recommend anything? Would you be interested in building a camera that could transmit pictures to a FAX machine and writing it up in BYTE? I would sure like it if you did this (It is my idea, and no I do not want any money). If you are not interested in this idea, do you know someone that would be? I am thinking about posting it to soc.culture,china. It would be a great SPY camera because you do not need to get a roll of film out to the rest of the world, a phone call would do. Its not nearly as big as a FAX machine, nor nearly as expensive. With a stand and proper focusing it could be a very cheap transmit only FAX (lots of people would like this). Enjoying a free country, Vince Cate vac@cs.cmu.edu (408) 268-8299 (home) (408) 447-4873 (work) Msg#:19480 *PROJECTS* 06/11/89 22:10:19 From: VINCENT ARON CATE To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: MORE ON CAMERA I checked with a friend and it seems that the large DRAMs are made from many small arrays separated by senseamps, so they would not be good for picking up an image. The only datasheets on CCDs that I could dig up are in the TI book "Optoelectronics and Image-Sensor Data Book, 1987". In this they have a 754 by 244 array. Since this is 1989 we should be able to do better. I am going to call TI tomorrow to see what they have and how much it costs. It still seems like the idea of a camera that can send its pictures to a FAX machine would be very usefull. Regular newspaper journalists would probably really like it, not just people using it as a "SPY" camera. I have the description of the group 3 and group 4 FAX compression algorithms and they seem straight forward. I do not yet have the description of the FAX protocol. With a good set of lithium batteries this camera should run for years without any supplies or maintainance. I really like the no moving parts idea, but maybe two fixed focus positions would be good. Vince Cate vac@cs.cmu.edu (408) 268-8299 PS I am a computer science student at Carnegie Mellon (working on a PHD). The 408 is because I am working at HP in California for the summer. Msg#:19533 *PROJECTS* 06/12/89 16:50:40 From: STEVE CIARCIA To: VINCENT ARON CATE (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 19480 (MORE ON CAMERA) You can do everything you ask but you might also be reinventing the wheel at great expense. Interestingly, call TI and order one of those 754 x 244 CCDs and the chip costs $500. Drop in at your local Macy's and you can buy the whole CCD camera for a few bucks more. Again, it is supply and demands based on quantity. Except for surplus, you can't afford to buy one CCD. The solution therefore is to use a TV camera an digitize an image. Once in the computer you can convert it to fax or anything else. If TV resolution it to low then take eight images of an 8.5x11 page and combine them in software or buy an off the shelf scanner. --Steve Msg#:19618 *PROJECTS* 06/13/89 23:12:44 From: JOEL KOLSTAD To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 19533 (MORE ON CAMERA) I haven't reaed the whole backlog of messages (which would run my bill a little higher than I get paid), but I'd like to comment on one design that I say some graduate students down at the UW-Madison campus working on. These guys were into Dick Tracyness... They wanted to pull the wrist TV stunt, and to get their "super miniature camera," they took one of those Fisher Price Pizelvision camcorda things that they sell to yuppie parents for their kids. They cost about $100, and the resolution sucks. However, the price is unbeatable, and these guys were using 2" screens, so the resolution was good enough! They tried broadcasting the signal, but if any of you know the UW campus, there's so much electronic interfernece down there that it's amazing you can even receive a radio signal. To say the least, it didn't work downtown. They tried it out about 20 miles away, and it worked fine. I doubt if this is really what the original message was talking about, but it's just something that came to mind reading the replies... Joel Kolstad Msg#:19544 *PROJECTS* 06/12/89 23:41:07 From: RIMAS AVIZIENIS To: ALL Subj: HD64180.. I need to find a mail-order firm that carries HD64180's or Z180's.. Sorry if this seems like a stupid question, but I need to get my hands on a few.. Msg#:19571 *PROJECTS* 06/13/89 08:44:25 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: RIMAS AVIZIENIS (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 19544 (HD64180..) Call Micromint at (800) 635-3355 to get an HD64180. Msg#:19593 *PROJECTS* 06/13/89 13:23:30 From: MICHAEL HAPP To: LEO TAYLOR Subj: HCS MODIFICATIONS Leo, Steve suggested that I contact you for information regarding your modifications to the HCS for operation with an off-the-shelf power supply and PL513 X-10 xmitter. How could I get a copy of those modifications? Thanks for your time... <* Michael *> Msg#:19637 *PROJECTS* 06/14/89 05:26:22 From: KEVIN D BROWN To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: ROVER I WOULD LIKE SOME MORE INFORMATION ON THE LASER SITE ON ROVER IS IT PASSIVE OR ACTIVE OR IS IT LIKE THE LASER SITE ON A S&W 357 Msg#:19645 *PROJECTS* 06/14/89 09:27:02 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: KEVIN D BROWN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 19637 (ROVER) The laser on top of ROVER's camera is just that: a laser. Nothing special about it. Its power supply is connected to one of the relays in the garage, so you can turn it on and off from the remote box. That's about all it's good for right now, though. Msg#:19665 *PROJECTS* 06/14/89 20:18:41 From: RIMAS AVIZIENIS To: ALL Subj: 62256 STATIC RAM CHIPS.. Well, I am planning to try to construct the SB180.. I have the original BYTE where it was described, and am now looking for parts. More specifically, I need info about 62256 Static Ram chips, or chips that will work in replacemnet for these chips, for the prices i have seen range in the $25 zone. Is that average? is there a way to implement DRAM's? thanks for any and all help. Msg#:19689 *PROJECTS* 06/15/89 08:42:07 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: RIMAS AVIZIENIS (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 19665 (62256 STATIC RAM CHIPS..) I don't understand your connection between the SB180 and 62256s. The SB180 was designed to work with 41256 DRAMs. You'll need a whole bunch of expensive SRAM chips to equal the amount of DRAM the SB180 normally uses. Msg#:19782 *PROJECTS* 06/16/89 21:49:46 From: KENT BROWN To: ED NISLEY (Rcvd) Subj: IR MASTER CONTROLLER I would lik to know if the source for the IR Master Controller (80c31 code) is available. I purchased the board but my application involves a differant interface. I would like to be able to modify the code so I can use a direct (parallel) interface. The source would make this a lot easier! Any help is appreciated. Msg#:19893 *PROJECTS* 06/19/89 09:58:45 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: KENT BROWN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 19782 (IR MASTER CONTROLLER) Sorry, but due to contractual agreements, the 8031 source code for the Master Controller is not available. Msg#:20004 *PROJECTS* 06/21/89 11:02:39 From: ED NISLEY To: KENT BROWN Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 19782 (IR MASTER CONTROLLER) Ken said it first. Depending on what you want to do, a very specialized version of the code that samples the incoming signal and uploads it wouldn't need all of the menuing hoo-hah. I covered some of the details in the early Firmware Furnace columns, and you could probably use some of that code. Msg#:19805 *PROJECTS* 06/17/89 04:39:00 From: KEVIN D BROWN To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: ROVER SOME IDEAS FOR UPDATING ROVER, HOW ABOUT TWO WAY VOICE SO YOU COULD TALK TO THE PEOPLE ABOUT TO BRAKE INTO YOUR HOME, AND OR THE ABLILITY TO SWITCH CAMERAS REMOTELY. A GUN WOULD BE NICE TO ADD BUT AT LEAST SOME REMOTE DEVICES THAT MAKE THEM THINK THAT YOU ARE SHOOTING AT THEM WOULD BE NICE, WHY NOT BE PROACTIVE AS FAR AS SECURITY. ONE LAST THING, WOULD IT BE POSIBLE TO HAVE ROVER PHONE A NUMBER IF A ALARM CONDITION WAS PRESENT? Msg#:19889 *PROJECTS* 06/19/89 09:44:55 From: STEVE CIARCIA To: KEVIN D BROWN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 19805 (ROVER) ROVER could (actually it can) switch cameras or initiate any digitally controlled action as it stands (just redesignate the switch I/O). To send voice requires either and ISDN telephone line (not available), a second telephone line (acceptable but costly), or switching off the video transfer while audio takes place (possible but aggrevating). And, yes, because there is a whole BCC180 on each end of ROVER it could do many more things like dial numbers, run the security system, etc. Since I already have these other items as separate systems I did not attempt to integrate them (I prefer distributed processing). --Steve Msg#:20056 *PROJECTS* 06/23/89 00:49:46 From: KEVIN D BROWN To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 19889 (ROVER) AFTER I SENT THE MESAGE I THOUGH THAT ONE WAY TO THE MASTER COULD BE POSSIBLE WITH OUT TO MUCH OVER HEAD. SO AT LEAST YOU COULD ANSWER THE DOOR OR TELL THEM TO LEAVE OR ELSE. BEING A NOVICE I LIKE TO SEE APPL. IT MAKES IT MUCH EASER TO GET A GRASP. THANKS KEVIN Msg#:19806 *PROJECTS* 06/17/89 04:54:22 From: KEVIN D BROWN To: JEFF BACHIOCHI (Rcvd) Subj: HAL-4 I HAVE BUILT THE HAL AND IT WORKS GREAT BUT I WOULD LIKE TO MODIFY IT FOR EKG WHAT WOULD I HAVE TO CHANGE ALSO I WOULD LIKE TO PLOT THE SINE WAVE ANY HELP WOULD BE APP. KEVIN Msg#:19928 *PROJECTS* 06/20/89 08:50:16 From: JEFF BACHIOCHI To: KEVIN D BROWN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 19806 (HAL-4) Kevin, Congrats on your successful project! Nice to hear about successes once in a while. As you probably know HAL is designed for measuring millivolt signals in the 4-20 Hz range. It is not an easy task to amplify these signals without noise, like 60 Hz, swamping out the signal. The front end of HAL has many close tolerance components, each calculated for the proper bandpass and amplification factors necessary to meet HAL's design criteria. To use it for any other purpose would require a complete redesign not just a few component changes! Many HAL users are currently writing their own programs using the data that comes from HAL. Perhaps if you read through the other threads on this BBS you will find some useful information. We encourage users to share their software with others by downloading to this BBS. Software of this type will be located in the HAL project file section when received. jeff Msg#:20057 *PROJECTS* 06/23/89 00:53:55 From: KEVIN D BROWN To: JEFF BACHIOCHI (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 19928 (HAL-4) THE 4 TO 20 HZ RANGE IS ON THE TOP END OF WHAT I NEED. IF SOME ONE HAS A PLOTING PROGRAM FOR ONE OR MORE CHANELS I WOULD APP. IT THANKS KEVIN Msg#:19979 *PROJECTS* 06/21/89 01:45:33 From: JAMES O'SULLIVAN To: KEN DAVIDSON (Rcvd) Subj: BCC180 Ken- I have a few questions concerning the BCC180. First, the BCC180 runs at 9.216 MHz, but the chip plugged in is rated for 8 MHz. Did Hitachi improve their timing characteristics, or is it just being pushed above ratings? How high can it go and still operate reliably? I wrote a communications driver for the AUX port: RECEIVE: INO A,04 AND 80 RET Z INO A,08 RET TRANSMIT: PUSH AF L INO A,04 AND 02 JR Z,LOOP POP AF OUTO 06,A RET It seems to work fine. I patched it into the BASIC ROM as file 5. I wrote a BASIC program that prints a test message repetitively to the aux port, which is connected to a PC running Reflection. It worked fine at 9600 baud (set by the E9600 command in the monitor). However, I poked a 0 into location 2 to boost the baud rate of the AUX port to 19.2, and got garbage on the PC. I started switching baud rates, and it finally cleared up at 57600. Initially, I thought there was a baud rate problem on the PC, but it works fine when connected to the console at 19.2Kbaud (the ROM is patched). I thought the serial ports were limited to 19.2K on a 9.216 MHz machine, or can the AUX port go higher? I would like to use the BCC180 in conjunction with the BCC13 to demodulate a WEFAX signal. WEFAX demodulation requires 11000 samples/sec, while the BCC13 is rated for 10,000 samples/sec. Can it be pushed to 11K per sec and still operate reliably? If the demodulation is is too time consuming to be performed in real time on the BCC180, I can use the BCC180 + BCC13 as an analog-to-digital-to-RS232 converter and capture the data on the PC. Thanks for any help you can offer! Jim Msg#:19994 *PROJECTS* 06/21/89 09:30:27 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: JAMES O'SULLIVAN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 19979 (BCC180) We're pushing 8-MHz parts to 9.216 MHz and have yet to have a failure in doing so. There are 10-MHz parts available from Hitachi for applications that absolutely must have in-spec parts. I've had the 8-MHz parts running at 12.288 MHz without failaure, but I think you'd end up having to select parts for reliable operation at that speed. A comment on your serial port code: the mnemonics are IN0 and OUT0, not INO and OUTO. The "0" indicates that the instruction places a zero on the high-order address bits. Your code is fine, but it's your constant that is causing the problem. The PS bit in port 2 must be set to get the standard set of baud rates at 9.216 MHz. When you place a 00H in the port, the PS bit is cleared, so you're trying to use a set of baud rates meant for 6.144- or 12.288-MHz operation. To get 9600, use 21H, and to get 19200, use 20H. Using 00H results in a final divide ratio of Phi/160, which gives the 57600 that you found. I never thought of using that set of divisors to get 57600 and 28800, but it is possible. I don't have a lot of experience using the BCC13 at its rated limit, so can't comment on whether it can be pushed. Maybe Steve or Jeff can jump in for that one. Msg#:20003 *PROJECTS* 06/21/89 11:00:26 From: JEFF BACHIOCHI To: JAMES O'SULLIVAN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 19979 (BCC180) James, With a max clock of 1.2MHz, the AD7581 can do 15000 conversions/second (66.6 usec/channel). jeff Msg#:20053 *PROJECTS* 06/22/89 23:28:35 From: JAMES O'SULLIVAN To: JEFF BACHIOCHI (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 20003 (BCC180) Great. That's just what I need. Thanks for the info. Jim Msg#:20201 *PROJECTS* 06/27/89 13:23:50 From: STEVE CIARCIA To: JAMES O'SULLIVAN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 19979 (BCC180) Understand that the clock on the BCC13 is set at about 800-900KHz. You'll have to change a cap on the oscillator and boost the frequency. On some of those 7581 chips we noticed zero-crossover distortion when run at high frequencies. Make the change, but test it throughly. --Steve Msg#:20256 *PROJECTS* 06/28/89 21:42:48 From: JAMES O'SULLIVAN To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 20201 (BCC180) Thank you for the information. I'll try that modification. My application isn't TOO demanding of accuracy, since I'm using it to demodulate graphics data, but the more the better... Jim Msg#:20007 *PROJECTS* 06/21/89 12:13:14 From: MICHAEL HAPP To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: HCS - AGAIN Steve, Do you know how often Leo Taylor logs on? I sent him a message regarding the modifications to the HCS (reference messages #19472, 19526, 19545, 19587, 19592, and 19593), and haven't received a reply. I've got the HCS on order along with a PL513, and would like to complete the "ordering process" as soon as possible so the pieces will arrive together. Thanks for your time. P.S. While I was at it, I ordered a RTC52K-1 to start the RS-485 stuff... I'll be watching for the upcoming INK-NET articles in INK! <* Michael *> Msg#:20065 *PROJECTS* 06/23/89 08:37:59 From: JEFF BACHIOCHI To: MICHAEL HAPP (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 20007 (HCS - AGAIN) Michael, Leo is a busy guy! What Leo has done is replace our custom combination AC power transformer/BSR line coupler with two sepatate units. The first replaces the AC power transformer and all the voltage regulator circuitry with a DC wall tranfromer supply (UPS-11): Remove the 7905 and connect ground to pin 3 and +5 to pin 1 of the now vacant 7905's hole pattern. Remove CR5 and CR52 zener diodes. The +12 volts goes to the cathode (striped) end of CR5 and the -5 goes to the anode of CR52. This -5 is replacing the -12v. The second, replaces the 60 Hz time base and the BSR coupler. The zero crossing detector from the PL513 can go directly into pin 6 of IC14. A pull up to +5 is necessary for the open collector output of the PL513. Don't forget to remove IC29 (LM311) which originally drove the 60Hz. Disconnect the output of IC7 (74LS02) and use it for control of the X-10 envelope input. Remove the 125kHz modulation from IC7's pin 3, and connect pin 3 to pin 2 instead. This will eliminate the modulation from the envelope (PL513 will create its own) and invert it to provide the proper polarity to drive the PL513. This should get your HCS up. The only problem this does not solve is that of power outage. There is no battery back-up facility! Hope this helps! jeff Msg#:20073 *PROJECTS* 06/23/89 11:23:49 From: MICHAEL HAPP To: JEFF BACHIOCHI (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 20065 (HCS - AGAIN) Thanks Jeff... I'll start hacking the schematics now to see what's going on. I'll let you know how things turn out... Thanks for your time. <* Michael *> Msg#:20199 *PROJECTS* 06/27/89 13:07:02 From: STEVE CIARCIA To: MICHAEL HAPP (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 20007 (HCS - AGAIN) I say an HCS01 order go by a few days ago but I don't know if it was yours. They may in fact be sending you the transformer (there were a couple around for repairs) anyway (don't quote me), unless you specified some partial assembly and the PL513 only. --Steve Msg#:20248 *PROJECTS* 06/28/89 18:57:45 From: MICHAEL HAPP To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 20199 (HCS - AGAIN) It was probably my order.. (I hope it was...). I put the order in last Wednesday for a "Terminal-based HCS Kit" (I didn't take the time to dig up the part number out of the BYTE, I just asked for it...) and a RTC52K-1 and manual... I went down to our surplus warehouse and found a brand new ADM3A (still in the box with docs) for $79.00 so I grabbed it for the terminal. I have the PL513 on order, and was also looking into a xformer for the power supply of the HCS (I received a note from Jeff Bachiochi on the modifications, looks pretty straight forward but I didn't want to give up the battery-backup). I was getting anxious today so I called CCI to get a status on the order. I was told that it left CT on Monday via UPS.. It'll be here soon enough I guess ... I'll let you know how things turn out. Thanks for your time! <* Michael *> Msg#:20288 *PROJECTS* 06/29/89 11:59:16 From: STEVE CIARCIA To: MICHAEL HAPP (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 20248 (HCS - AGAIN) If we are talking about the same order, then it had the transformer with a fuse installed so you should have no problems (short of a direct lightning strike) in it lasting a long time and probably don't have to even make the modification. Furthermore, I wouldn't be surprised if you received an assembled board rather than the kit you ordered. Easier to support a mostly discontinued product if we know it works when we ship it. Beats reading the manual again :-) Finally, while the terminal use is good, tying a PC with the Robin software to it (just to program it, then you can go back to terminal use) is wonderful and makes the system real nice and simple to use. I recommend it. --Steve Msg#:20289 *PROJECTS* 06/29/89 12:02:14 From: STEVE CIARCIA To: MICHAEL HAPP (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 20248 (HCS - AGAIN) When it arrives, tell me what they sent you. --Steve PS Did it contain the video section? Msg#:20337 *PROJECTS* 06/30/89 18:27:47 From: MICHAEL HAPP To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 20288 (HCS - AGAIN) Glad to hear it... I was going to look for a transformer (or two) that would enable me to use the supply on the board to retain the battery backup (or modify it so that it was still active). The transformer will make that easier and I can always play with the PL513 on my PC or one of my other systems. I was kinda looking forward to putting the thing together (part of the fun is the assembly), but I understand the "support" side of it too and will take it any way it comes. I guess that will enable me to spend more time hacking stuff to hook to it... (I'm not looking to nuke anyone that comes through the door, or "move my neighbor's house back two feet with the army surplus air raid sirens..." by burning a souffle' in my oven ;-) ). As far as the Robin software goes... I was going to ask if there were listings of the HCS control code with the kit, or any information on how to download configurations to it from a PC. I was wanting to write my own "Robinware" to do that sort of thing (Although I am basically a hardware type, I have had too many years in the software side of the house to be limited by either side - one without the other is less than useful). I doubt that Robin provides the source with "EXEC" (isn't that its name?), and I'm sure that I'd want to change SOMETHING. If I do it myself, then I can also change it at will...(if they do provide the source, I'll pop another order off soon!). The terminal is just for the status displays... I couldn't beat the price (I may go back to get another for a spare) and I don't want to tie up my PC because I'm looking forward to the INK-NET stuff (that order also included a RTC52), and besides my entire life is on ol' blue (with backups |8-). Finally, I will let you know what was sent as soon as I receive it (I thought that I had said to use the faster method of delivery - "damn the torpedoes... full steam ahead!" - but alas, when I called for status I was told it was sent UPS...). It shoud be here after the fourth so I'll be sure to let you know. Have a nice independence day! <* Michael *> Msg#:20013 *PROJECTS* 06/21/89 14:13:08 From: LUC BASTIEN To: ALL USERS Subj: BCC52CX AND LCD DISPLAY HELP!!!! I HAVE BOUGHT A BCC 52CX CONTROLER BOARD WITH AN LCD DISPLAY THE DISPLAY IS LOOKING FOR AN ASCII CHARACTER BUT I WANT TO DISPLAY A BCC52 FLOATING POINT VARIABLE THE BCC52 DOES NOT HAVE A GIVEN COMMAND TO CONVERT NUMERIC VARIABLE TO STRING VARIABLES IS THERE ANYONE OUT THERE THAT KNOWS HOW I CAN DO THIS?? Msg#:20068 *PROJECTS* 06/23/89 08:46:45 From: JEFF BACHIOCHI To: LUC BASTIEN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 20013 (BCC52CX AND LCD DISPLAY) Luc, Check page 55 in the Intel (whi) manual. "USING(Fx)" I think this is what you want! jeff Msg#:20081 *PROJECTS* 06/23/89 16:17:33 From: ED NISLEY To: JEFF BACHIOCHI (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 20068 (BCC52CX AND LCD DISPLAY) But what it _really_ needs is something to do the conversion to a string and stick it in storage so you can tinker with the value. Ah, well, what do you want for a couple of K bytes? Msg#:20163 *PROJECTS* 06/26/89 18:59:41 From: LUC BASTIEN To: JEFF BACHIOCHI (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 20068 (BCC52CX AND LCD DISPLAY) THANKS FOR THE HELP JEFF I WILL READ THAT PART OF THE MANUAL AND GET BACK TO YOU ON THE RESULTS GOOD OR BAD Msg#:20054 *PROJECTS* 06/22/89 23:37:36 From: JAMES O'SULLIVAN To: KEN DAVIDSON (Rcvd) Subj: BCC180 Thanks for the information. BTW, are there any public domain/shareware assemblers/disassemblers available for the 64180? I wrote a Z80 disassembler in Pascal a while back, and I am adding the 64180 instructions. I could upload it when it's finished if there's nothing better around (in the PD). It runs on a PC and accepts any binary object file. Jim Msg#:20072 *PROJECTS* 06/23/89 09:55:31 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: JAMES O'SULLIVAN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 20054 (BCC180) Please use the eply command when replying to messages. I don't remeber the original message and I can't look back at it since you started a new thread with this one. There is at least one Z80 cross-assembler in the cross-development tools file area that can be used to generate HD64180 code. I don't know of any public domain native assemblers. There is a nice full-screen native debugger available called 18E (or something like that) that I believe includes a disassembler. It's in the CP/M area. Msg#:20275 *PROJECTS* 06/29/89 09:10:31 From: JEFF BACHIOCHI To: JEAN-LOUIS ECOCHARD (Rcvd) Subj: HAL Jean-Louis, The CLK signal to the A/D should be running continuously. This is a divide-by-2 of the ALE line. Since you also state no activity on the ALE line, that leaves out the '74 (IC4) as a problem. ALE should be running continuously if the processor if functioning normally. Check the XTAL inputs (pins 18 & 19 on U7), this is where it all starts, or doesn't start if you will. If it is not oscilating, check for the correct xtal and caps to ground. Also check for VCC and ground on the processor. The LED flashing is more like a flicker. This is the actual data stream output by HAL. It runs at 4800 Baud so you won't see a flash! jeff Msg#:20286 *PROJECTS* 06/29/89 11:43:53 From: JEAN-LOUIS ECOCHARD To: JEFF BACHIOCHI (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 20275 (HAL) Thanks much Jeff, I diagnosed the problem in ALE beeing somehow grounded because of some solder on another IC that I had taken for a bridge ( the trace did not have varnish on it ). I now have the LED flickering and some display on the PC. However, the data displayed on the PC reaches randomly its maximum although there is nothing yet connected to HAL... Is that noise ( Then it must be very strong ) or some problem in the analog stage ? How may I find out if it is plain noise or eroneous analog data ? Thanks again for your help. J.Louis Msg#:20323 *PROJECTS* 06/30/89 07:59:12 From: JEFF BACHIOCHI To: JEAN-LOUIS ECOCHARD (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 20286 (HAL) Jean-Louis, Hal will pick up noise if for instance you are touching the analog section with your fingers. Put shorting resisters across each of the four inputs and place HAL on a non-conductive surface. The output of HAL should now be ziltch. You will notice depending on the system (4.7MHz - 10MHz or higher) the time between updates will be faster with a faster machine. This time between updates gives a delay in the feedback so don't expect instant change on the display. jeff Msg#:20290 *PROJECTS* 06/29/89 12:06:34 From: LUC BASTIEN To: JEF BACHIOCHI Subj: BCC52 LCD JEF I LOOKED ON PAGE 55 OF INTEL MANUAL AND THE F(X) COMMAND WILL ONLY SET UP THE FORMAT IN A FIXED FORM FOR A FLOATING POINT NUMBER.THIS DOES NOT HELP ME TO CONVERT A FP VARIABLE TO IT'S INDIVIDUAL DIGIT ASCII FORM EG. 1.76=49,46,55,54 I TRIED TO USE THE D UTILITY ROM BUT I HAD NO SUCCESS. REALLY NEED HELP ON THIS SO IF THERE IS ANYONE READING I NEED A WAY TO CONVERT A FLOATING POINT VARIABLE TO ASCII LUC Msg#:20305 *PROJECTS* 06/29/89 20:41:09 From: DAVID LAGERGREN To: LUC BASTIEN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 20290 (BCC52 LCD) Luc I have wrestled with the problem of strings in Basic-52 also. Wish I had an extension to the Rom with some additional string handling. Anyway, I only know of one way to accomplish your task. Since you can't convert your variable into a string, try the following: example code (input up to 10 digit numbers) 1 string 10,10 5 $(1)="0000000000" 10 input x 12 i=1 : p = 10 : dim temp(30) 13 rem i is array counter, p is # decimal places 15 Hi = INT(x) 20 Lo = (x- Hi) * (10**p) 25 Temp = Hi 30 do 35 do 40 Temp = (Temp / 10) 45 T = T + 1 50 while Temp > 10 55 Temp(i) = INT(Temp) + 48 60 Temp = Temp-Int(Temp) 65 Temp = Int(Temp * (10**(T+1))) 70 i = i + 1 75 T = 0 80 while Temp > 0 85 IF Dec <> 1 THEN 95 90 FOR t = 1 TO i : asc($(1),t)=Temp(t) : NEXT : ? $(1) : END 95 Temp(i) = 46 100 Temp = INT(Lo) 105 Dec = 1 110 i = i + 1 115 GOTO 30 This may not be the fastest way or the easiest way. The code is not optomized, but this scheme will work. Basically, it sets the operating parameters (lines 1 - 12), separates the number 'x' into the exponent and the mantissima (lines 15 and 20), runs thru a loop that gets each multiple of ten of the number and puts it into an array for each 'half' of 'x'. After the first half, the period (chr(46)) is inserted. This may not be the solution you need (assembler would be best), but it does work, provided the number 'x' isn't too large. Good luck! --------------dave Msg#:20338 *PROJECTS* 06/30/89 21:19:45 From: TOM HALWACHS To: ALL Subj: CCAT Need help in fixing video problem with CCAT and EGA/VGA cards. With any EGA/VGA switched into a high res mode (windows, games, etc.) the video goes snowy and the CCAT locks up after about 3 minutes. Have changed cards, ROMS in CCAT and no joy. Any ideas ??? Msg#:20466 *PROJECTS* 07/05/89 09:22:13 From: JEFF BACHIOCHI To: TOM HALWACHS (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 20338 (CCAT) Tom, How many cards are plugged into your passive backplane? What is the present BIOS version # you have installed in your system? We are using Super VGA without any problems here. jeff ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Msg#:20399 *PROJECTS* 07/03/89 05:58:14 From: DON MICHAEL To: ALL Subj: SERIAL EPROM PROGRAMMER Interested in adapter board and driverto program one Meg EPROMS. Has any one worked this one out? Msg#:20437 *PROJECTS* 07/04/89 13:28:43 From: NICK HAWRYSZKO To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: SMART SPOOLER PRINTER SELECT While trying to get a Smart Spooler up and running I ran into a problem with the parallel input port. Everything else was working fine but when I tried to send parallel data into the spooler I would get a 'printer not ready' error on my AT clone. Tracing the problem done revealed that the computer thought the printer was off line. This was because pin 15 (the select signal) on the spooler connector was floating. Pulling this pin high solved the problem. Msg#:20466 *PROJECTS* 07/05/89 09:22:13 From: JEFF BACHIOCHI To: TOM HALWACHS (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 20338 (CCAT) Tom, How many cards are plugged into your passive backplane? What is the present BIOS version # you have installed in your system? We are using Super VGA without any problems here. jeff Msg#:20482 *PROJECTS* 07/05/89 21:21:49 From: MATTHEW J. MABERINO To: ALL USER Subj: DIGITAL THERMOSTATS MY GRANDFATHER IS OLD AND SLOWLY GOING BLIND. SO I FIGURED I'D MODIFY THE RTC31 CIRCUIT A LITTLE AND MAKE HIM A DIGITAL THERMOSTAT WITH BIG BRIGHT LED'S TO DISPLAY TEMP AND SETTINGS. I CAME UP WITH A FEW PROBLEMS AND WOULD APPRECIATE HELP IF YOU CAN. 1 - I BOUGHT A TERMISTOR FROM RADIO SHACK, BUT IT IS NON-LINEAR, I CAME UP WITH THE EQUATION FOR IT WITH MY HP-41, BUT IT'S NASTY AND GOING TO BE VERY HARD TO CALIBRATE TO A 0-5V TO FEED A A/D CONV. DOES ANYONE KNOW OF A LINEAR THERMISTOR? 2 - THE AD0808 IS 8 CHANNEL INPUT, DOES ANYONE KNOW OF A SINGLE CHANNEL A/D, THAT'S AS EASY TO INTERFACE A MICRO TO LIKE THE 0808? 3 - I'M ASSUMING I CAN USE A OPTO-RELAY TO INTERFACE TO THE FURNACE WIRES. DOES ANYONE KNOW THE VOLTAGE OF "YOUR AVERAGE FURNACE SYSTEM" (I HOPE IT'S NOT 120) I REALLY APPRECIATE ANY HELP. THANKS Msg#:20496 *PROJECTS* 07/06/89 09:34:10 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: MATTHEW J. MABERINO (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 20482 (DIGITAL THERMOSTATS) The way thermistors are often handled in microcontroller situations is to simply use a look-up table for the conversion. If you're using an 8-bit A/D, the table is only going to be 256 or 512 bytes long, which may actually be shorter than a routine to do calculations. The ADC0803 and ADC0804 are single-channel versions of the ADC0808 and ADC0809. Most of the parts suppliers should have them. I believe most thermostat wiring is 24 VAC, but I know there are some 120V systems around. Just use a voltmeter across the leads if you're designing the thermostat for just one location. You can also use a mechanical relay and not worry at all about the voltage. Msg#:20532 *PROJECTS* 07/07/89 09:00:02 From: DAVE MILLER To: MATTHEW J. MABERINO (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 20482 (DIGITAL THERMOSTATS) There are also some furnaces that run on a "Millivolt" some how they are able to run off of the power generated by a thermal couple. The only way that you can interface with these systems is to use a relay powered by external sources. I ran into this problem when I tried to put a smart thermostat on my furnace and found that I had to add a seperate 24 volt supply system. Msg#:20640 *PROJECTS* 07/10/89 02:51:14 From: PAUL HITCHCOCK To: MATTHEW J. MABERINO (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 20482 (DIGITAL THERMOSTATS) Matthew, as long as you're stopping at Radio Shack, check out the TLC548 A/D converter chip. It's very easy to use!( I've interface a couple to an Apple II's game port.) For temperature sensing, try an LM334Z linear temperature sensor, available from Jameco, among others. Since it's linear in output, you will be able to scale the output using either a voltage divider or a simple op-amp amplifier. Msg#:20765 *PROJECTS* 07/12/89 19:20:48 From: MATTHEW J. MABERINO To: KEN DAVIDSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 20496 (DIGITAL THERMOSTATS) Thanks for the info. I realized it doesn't matter if the transducer is linear or not, just use a table! As far as the a/d chip, I'll send a message to you. Thanks again. Msg#:20766 *PROJECTS* 07/12/89 19:29:14 From: MATTHEW J. MABERINO To: DAVE MILLER (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 20532 (DIGITAL THERMOSTATS) The thermostat and the furnace are both very old. I doubt if they use millivolt sensors, back then. The thermostat has a mercury switch in it, so what I've read, it's probably a 24 volt system. I didn't notice at the time, but its probably a simple 2 wire on-off system. Gotta get into the thermostat and play around to find out. I'm not sure, but isn't there such thing as a 3 wire system. Thanks! Msg#:20767 *PROJECTS* 07/12/89 19:39:33 From: MATTHEW J. MABERINO To: PAUL HITCHCOCK (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 20640 (DIGITAL THERMOSTATS) Guess where I went today? And as usual, the Radio Shack nearby doesn't carry the a/d chip anymore. I think they had the chip about 2 years ago. It figures, I'm only 2 years too late! Was it a 8 bit out a/d? Also, thanks to ken davidson, he suggested using a lookup table in eprom, which will nullify the non-linearity problem of the R.S. thermistors. I tell ya, I'm pissed they didn't have the chip, but Ken also referred me to the ad0803 and ad0804, he says they're 8 bit single channel counterparts to the 0808 and 0809. Thanks for the help, I really appreciate it! Msg#:20875 *PROJECTS* 07/16/89 03:02:17 From: PAUL HITCHCOCK To: MATTHEW J. MABERINO (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 20767 (DIGITAL THERMOSTATS) I'm sorry your Radio Shack no longer carries the ADC. You can also try the ADC0831 chip (National). Like the TLC548, it too is a serial ADC and extremely easy to interface to just about anything. Good Luck! Msg#:20921 *PROJECTS* 07/17/89 19:46:23 From: MATTHEW J. MABERINO To: PAUL HITCHCOCK (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 20875 (DIGITAL THERMOSTATS) Thanks for the reference. Ken Davidson pointed me to the analog designs databook, and gave me info on how to get the databook. Which was the major problem with AD chips for me. I don't work in an electronic shop anymore. I've got a really strange one fer ya. I didn't realize the divider voltage (of a simple two resistor divder) is not linear when you vary the resistance of one of the resistors (eventually i'll replace it with the thermistor). I plotted resistance by output voltage using a spreadsheet, and it seems to be inversly exponential. Then I substituted the values for certain temps and their resistances according to the data supplied with the thermistor(which don't forget is also non-linear). I figured this graph was going to be a real mess, but it was ABSOLUTELY LINEAR! I spent hours trying to figure where i goofed, but i don't think i did. I still question it, the only real test will be to build it of course. Question -- If I a regular zener diode instead of a precision reference to drive the divider and the a/d converter, will it still hold its accuracy? I thought even if the zener drifts, the divider voltage and the a/d reference will drift accordingly, which should make any drift cancel? Right? Msg#:20932 *PROJECTS* 07/18/89 00:53:19 From: FRANK KUECHMANN To: MATTHEW J. MABERINO (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 20482 (DIGITAL THERMOSTATS) I don't think there is such a thing as a linear monolithic thermistor. Yellow Springs Instruments [Yellow Springs OH, distributed by outfits like Newark] makes linear thermistor networks, but they tend to be very expensive and thus not cost-effective for your purposes. YSI also makes 1% NTC thermistors from which temperature can be accurately determined by solving three simultaneous equations with constants taken from YSI's data. Even YSI's "ordinary" thermistors tend to be very pricey [over $30 each at Allied last time I checked], although All Electronics has had a 1K YSI TDR from something like $3.50 in their recent catalogs. With a 1K 1% metal film resistor in parallel and op amp signal conditioning, it could be workable. One old trick for linearizing an ordinary NTC thermistor is to parallel it with a resistor whose value is the same as the nominal value of the thermistor: e.g. the nominal resistance of a thermistor is typically given for 25 degrees C [about 77 F]. If that nominal value is 1K, then use a 1K parallel resistance [metal film best]. In general, solid-state sensors are more cost-effective than thermistors, as well as more linear. The AD590, National LM34, LM35, LM134, LM135 series are common ones. Some of the earlier "Circuit Cellar" articles In BYTE showed how these can be used with ADCs to measure temperature -- e.g. the "computer-controlled wood stove" article [in Vol. II of the collected articles]. An ordinary silicon diode or transistor wired as a diode makes a surprisingly linear temp sensor: the forward voltage varies something like .1 millivolt per degree C. Limit the current through the diode, then measure and scale the forward voltage. Intersil's data for ICs like the 7106 ADC show example circuits. Msg#:20950 *PROJECTS* 07/18/89 19:34:21 From: MATTHEW J. MABERINO To: FRANK KUECHMANN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 20932 (DIGITAL THERMOSTATS) I wrote a message to P. Hitchcock, I don'y know if you saw it yet(dunno the number). I was was amazed to see the mathematical results of using a non-linear thermistor in a non-linear (sort of) volt. divider. They cancelled (the non-linearity) and produced a linear plot. My first project goal was K.I.S.S. (keep it simple stupid), so I figured a linear device was the way to go, but what I ended up with was quite different, producing linear output. I got lucky! I saved your message(of course), and saw something about a trick using a parallel resistor as it was going by. I love old tricks, I can't wait to dump it on paper and read it. Thanks - Matt Msg#:21052 *PROJECTS* 07/22/89 04:59:55 From: PAUL HITCHCOCK To: MATTHEW J. MABERINO (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 20921 (DIGITAL THERMOSTATS) Matt, it's possible to "linearize" a nonlinear element in a two-element voltage divider, provided that the linear component is much bigger than the nonlinear one. (I'm assuming that it was in your case.) It works like this: let R be the linear element, Rx the nonlinear one, Vcc the input voltage to the divider, and Vx the output across the non-linear one ( i.e., the thermistor) Vx= Vcc*Rx/(R+Rx) = (Vcc*Rx/R)/(1+Rx/R) Now, if R is much greater than Rx, with some mathematical gyrations (expanding 1/(1+Rx/R) by the binomial theorem), you get the approximate equality (:=), Vx := (Vcc*Rx/R)*( 1- Rx/R) = Vcc( Rx/R - Rx^2/R^2) where Rx^2 means Rx squared. Now if Rx/R is a small quantity, its square is a MUCH smaller quantity and can be neglected, giving the final result Vx := Vcc*Rx/R So you have a linear result. This also answers your second question about the zener: at a given temperature Rx/R is a constant (neglecting things like self-heating), so the output voltage is a linear function of the driving voltage Vcc. Unfortunately, you do seem to need a fairly well-regulated driving voltage. I hope this helps! Msg#:21230 *PROJECTS* 07/26/89 19:10:34 From: MATTHEW J. MABERINO To: PAUL HITCHCOCK (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 21052 (DIGITAL THERMOSTATS) I got ya now! Thats some good stuff to know! As far as the Vref, I figure to use a 78L05, with a ADC0804 (thanks to ken). Like I said, between the non-linear divider, and the non-linear thermistor, the+++Y cancelled, and gave a linear plot! Lucky I guess, but it didn't matter in the end. Thanks for the help! Msg#:20483 *PROJECTS* 07/05/89 21:50:53 From: JEAN-LOUIS ECOCHARD To: ALL Subj: HAL-4 I noticed that some people were interested in capturing HAL data to a file for further analysis. The first step in this approach is to capture data then to analyse it, the second beeing to do both at once. I wrote a small program in C for the IBM PC that reads HAL data from COM1: and transfers it to a file. The program is named HAL2F.EXE and has been uploaded on this BBS, the syntax is HAL2F filename, where filename is the name of the file in which you want the data. Data is stored in binary. I am working on a C program to do a similar work than BIO.EXE but that would be more easily ported to other systems ( Mac, UNIX, ... ). However, I would like to complement my efforts with yours. Your input in this project, as well as your technical help will be be welcome and rewarded ( by giving you proper credits ). If anyone is interested in the source of HAL2F, I will upload it. However, be aware that the async part relies on a library of PD async functions for the PC. Hope this will tickle your brains and that you'll watch it happen... Msg#:20484 *PROJECTS* 07/05/89 21:58:39 From: JEAN-LOUIS ECOCHARD To: ALAN LEGRAND (Rcvd) Subj: HALFHT.C Would you please give a brief description of the I/O expected and generated by the functions in HALFHT.C Thanks, J.Louis Msg#:20635 *PROJECTS* 07/10/89 00:50:49 From: ALAN LEGRAND To: JEAN-LOUIS ECOCHARD (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 20484 (HALFHT.C) I have uploaded a file HALFHT.DOC which contains a brief description of how to use HALFHT.C and what's going on. I dont know why I didn't include it before. I guess I thought the BYTE article, and compiling the program and running it would be enough to figure out how to use it. Good Luck, Alan LeGrand Msg#:20674 *PROJECTS* 07/10/89 22:37:30 From: JEAN-LOUIS ECOCHARD To: ALAN LEGRAND (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 20635 (HALFHT.C) Thanks, I am including your FFT code into a PD program named BIO3.exe that I will upload here. Written in C, it permits 4 channels in "real time" and has some graphics. Msg#:20500 *PROJECTS* 07/06/89 10:19:18 From: ED NISLEY To: DAVID LAGERGREN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 20305 (BCC52 LCD) The only catch with that is that the conversion will give odd results for some fractions. For example, "integer" values may not come out to be exactly what you'd expect, and some fractions will get "rounded" the wrong way. The absolute and relative errors are quite small (about one digit in the low-order place) but they give really odd-looking results. You may need to add a fudge factor to make things come out right... and you have to take the sign into consideration to make sure you're fudging in the right direction. Msg#:20509 *PROJECTS* 07/06/89 16:04:17 From: DAVID LAGERGREN To: ED NISLEY (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 20500 (BCC52 LCD) Ed--- Aren't computers wonderful? I was aware of the Errors that could creep in. I wrote the program first in Quick Basic 4.0. Even after calling MicroSoft I was unable to get it to run without putting in quite a few "fudge factors". It thought that 50 divided by 10 was 5.00000005. Humph.... I agree it isn't a perfect solution, hopefully a start. The i triple e number storage, various floating point storage methods etc. can really cause problems. I solved the errors in QuickBasic by taking the Int of the number after aech divide by ten. I never did try it with negative numbers. I guess I'm just a positive person. -----------dave Msg#:20529 *PROJECTS* 07/07/89 08:34:58 From: ED NISLEY To: DAVID LAGERGREN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 20509 (BCC52 LCD) Rumor has it that the only program with no bugs is the one you don't run at all... All of the code in the Mandelbrot Engine was carefully tailored to do absolutely no more than necessary, because adding frills you don't use is a sure way to add bugs to the mainline code. If you can get away with all positive numbers, there's no reason to consider negatives (but it is a Really Good Idea to check for and exclude negative numbers from the routine!) Once you get the thing working, drop Curt an article proposal... tell us all how you did it! Msg#:20545 *PROJECTS* 07/07/89 12:33:11 From: DAVID LAGERGREN To: ED NISLEY (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 20529 (BCC52 LCD) Ed-- I am not sure what I am getting done. I was helping someone else with a question on how to turn variables into strings on the 8052AH. I guess I could finish up the code as soon as I get a free moment or 200. Maybe I will play with it a little more this weekend, if the sun isn't shining in Seattle. (It shines so rarely here, we do nothing but stand outside in awe when it does). ------dave Msg#:20553 *PROJECTS* 07/07/89 15:15:39 From: ED NISLEY To: DAVID LAGERGREN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 20545 (BCC52 LCD) Yeah, summer work rules are in full effect! I thought someone in this thread was cooking up the general-purpose floating point to ASCII converter, which is surely something of interest to more than one person. But maybe I was reading more into it than was intended... happens every now and again. In any event, maybe I should make another pass at this in a Firmware Furnace column: data conversion from float to ASCII in a variety of formats. Ugh, I hate it already! Msg#:20559 *PROJECTS* 07/07/89 18:13:45 From: DAVID LAGERGREN To: ED NISLEY (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 20553 (BCC52 LCD) Ed---- I spent some more time today on the routine....... found more nugs! I think the way to do it on the BCC 52 is to locate the variable in memory and work on it from there. My routine now works with negative numbers but won't handle numbers where the first digit after the decimal point is a zero. Oh well, time to work on a tan. Anyway, page 184 of the MCS Basic-52 manual explains how the variable is stored, page 184 tells (sort of) how to find it in memory. From there it would be easy to "xby" out the parts you want and manipulate them into a string. Not fun, but probably cleaner and less code then my approach. If the sun dies out, I may give it a try. Mean while, from the sunshine capitol of the world......................... ----------dave Msg#:20745 *PROJECTS* 07/12/89 12:20:33 From: ED NISLEY To: DAVID LAGERGREN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 20559 (BCC52 LCD) Eventually you get down to the bugs that depend on the dew point and lunar phase... but ya gotta start somewhere! Msg#:20755 *PROJECTS* 07/12/89 13:29:21 From: DAVID LAGERGREN To: ED NISLEY (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 20745 (BCC52 LCD) How many wheels does a lunar cycle have?? If my present company doesn't receive additional funding REAL SOON NOW I may have lots of time to debug code. If any one is interested in the code for making the FP variables into strings on the 8052 AH, I have it working fine, almost. I can download it or leave it as a text message. Maybe I should hook my LCD back up to my BCC 52 and try it out. BTW, does LCD stand for Lunar Cycle Diode? -------------------dave Msg#:20526 *PROJECTS* 07/07/89 04:24:13 From: JEREMY MENACKER To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: HAL-4 Hi Steve, I just read the article on the Hal-4 in the July '88 issue of byte, and I was rather disappointed that the whole hal system is curtailed because of the use of an ibm-pc, I have an Ibm at, and it runs at 12 mhz, and landmark rates it as 6 times faster than a PC. Because I have an AT, I was wondering if you have a hal-8 for sale, if not, could you tell me how to build one that will have those 8 channels, and will also have the ability to read delta waves (.5 Hz - 20 Hz). Or possibly, if you have the technical knowhow, make one that will measure absolute voltages. Hal-4 is just so limited with 4 channels and delta waves are left out, and I have a computer that has more than enough processing capability for it. Thanks for your time. To anyone else who read this message: would you like to add something to what I said? Msg#:20550 *PROJECTS* 07/07/89 14:31:05 From: JEFF BACHIOCHI To: JEREMY MENACKER (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 20526 (HAL-4) Jeremy, It has been the practice of STEVE and all his associates to bring projects to the point where they are usable by the widest audience possible without costing an arm and a leg. HAL's present design transmits 4-channels of data @ 4800 baud once every 1/64 sec. In fact two HAL boards (one fully populated - one populated with only the analog section) can be ribbon cabled together to produce an 8-channel version. One problem with this is: Sending 8-channels (8-bytes + 1 sync byte) every 1/64 of a second will take longer than the 4800 baud transfer rate will allow. We have produced code (HAL EPROM) which sends 8-channels @ 9600 baud. The demo software receives 4-channels @ 4800 baud (throws away 2 of the 4-channels). Yes the software is written for a PC, XT, AT (AT runs at about 2 screens/sec. Since HAL is a serial device it is open to all computers with a serial port. We have provided a tool for you to use, not a finished product. Everyone's idea of what would make a finished product is different. Check through past messages here to get a feel for what others are doing with or thinking about HAL. jeff Msg#:20547 *PROJECTS* 07/07/89 14:19:43 From: STEVE CIARCIA To: MICHAEL HAPP (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 20337 (HCS - AGAIN) EXEC is provided without source code. Heck, we don't even have the source code. Oh well. let me know how you make out. --Steve Msg#:20630 *PROJECTS* 07/09/89 22:26:32 From: MICHAEL HAPP To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 20547 (HCS - AGAIN) Okay, we'll do. By the way, I received the HCS and the RTC52. They arrived right before I left for vacation. CCI changed my order to a HCS02 (from the HCST06), so I received a completed board including the video section, serial section, 8K RAM and power transformer/X-10 transmitter. More than I expected, but it is already up and running. It is currently operating all of the X-10 functions that I already had in place, and doing quite well. I am in the process of installing the "closed-loop" portion of the system, and hope to have it online by the end of summer. I took the RTC52K kit on vacation with me (now that's what I call relaxing after a day of skiing, etc.), and have it online also. I have been playing with the ROM BASIC, but decided that I will have to get the INTEL Microcontroller manual to really explore the part. I now understand why you were so impressed with the chip. It really is a nice little controller. I need to talk to Jeff to see if he is aware of some of the "bugs" in the Tech Ref that is included with the kit. I do understand that it is the first revision of the document, and he is probably aware of them already. I am getting anxious to start playing with the INK-NET software, and am in the planning stages of pulling the wire for the network. By the way, the HCS manual does include an example of an UPLOAD/DOWNLOAD software that will be beneficial to me in writing my own "RobinWare". I will do it in an assembly/C combination, and will let you know how it turns out. Well, enough for now. <* Michael *> Msg#:20558 *PROJECTS* 07/07/89 17:35:46 From: JEAN-LOUIS ECOCHARD To: JEFF Subj: HAL2F.EXE Recently I uploaded a utility allowing someone to capture HAL data from COM1: to a file, The utility is called HAL2F.EXE and is for an IBM PC/XT/AT. Yet I cannot find it around and I have been asked by other board members as to why it is not available. Would you please tell me the reason for the delay ( I am sure they are good but would like to be aware of them ). I wrote in C the same program than BIO.EXE but with 4 channels. On my 8Mhz PC it outperforms BIO.EXE and displays the 4 channels. I also have it with graphics and sound. Shall I upload it ? BTW: I still have too much noise on CHANNEL 1 ( the rest are OK ) even with a resistor to shunt it. Any clues as to why or what to look for ? J.Louis Thanks Msg#:20652 *PROJECTS* 07/10/89 11:20:59 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: JEAN-LOUIS ECOCHARD (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 20558 (HAL2F.EXE) Every file uploaded must be approved by me before it is posted in the public file area. To do so, I must take the board off-line. And since I don't do that every day, it may take several days to get a file moved over. In the case of your HAL2F, I have it on my list to check into since you've mentioned it in your messages, but I didn't see it on my last check, so it may not have even made it here. I'm going to be checking this morning. If the file still isn't posted, you'll have to upload it again. If immediate turn around is essential, you should learn how to include files with messages. Otherwise, give me a break. Msg#:20675 *PROJECTS* 07/10/89 22:44:02 From: JEAN-LOUIS ECOCHARD To: KEN DAVIDSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 20652 (HAL2F.EXE) Sorry, my ignorance of the procedure was the reason of my query. Your procedure is best to keep TROJAN and the rest off the system and I thank you for your screening ( I download and use the programs ). The initial question came from a board user, I could not answer him and inquired. You gave me your explanations, and I will convey them. There is no rush in making my uploads public from my side, so next upload from me, take a break, you deserve it. BTW: the board is clean and neat, great job. Msg#:20570 *PROJECTS* 07/08/89 01:16:47 From: MIKE GONZALEZ To: ED NISLEY (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 19366 (DDT51-C) Ed, I didn't mean to say that you do not reply at all. I know you guys put in alot of time on your projects. I know I let some things go by when I'm on hot pursuit on some project. No problem, I'll upload the DDT51-C, unless someone already did. Thanks ... Mike Gonzalez Msg#:20748 *PROJECTS* 07/12/89 12:28:42 From: ED NISLEY To: MIKE GONZALEZ (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 20570 (DDT51-C) Thanks kindly! I suspect we all work on only one project at a time, so anything that requires a lot of attention gets shuffled off for a later date. No harm done, and all's well that ends well. Msg#:20572 *PROJECTS* 07/08/89 01:22:00 From: MIKE GONZALEZ To: LARRY HOLLIBAUGH (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 19783 (DDT51-C) Larry, I hope the DDT51-C version helps. Just leave a message here. I mean if you would let me know of some changes or ideas. That way maybe more interested people will help out or have some ideas of their own. Sorry it took a while to respond, I was on vacation for over 2 weeks. (Tiffin Oh. long way from El Paso). Talk to you later ... Mike Msg#:21519 *PROJECTS* 08/01/89 21:23:57 From: LARRY HOLLIBAUGH To: MIKE GONZALEZ (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 20572 (DDT51-C) Sorry, Mike! I went to BC SOG, and it's been a nuthouse here keeping up with the workload since I got back. I haven't had any time to even browse the code. 12 to 16 hour days, weekends, that sort of thing. I have several things I want to do, and I'll definitely share it with all. Someday...;' -Larry Msg#:20597 *PROJECTS* 07/09/89 00:44:21 From: JAMES O'SULLIVAN To: ALL Subj: HAL GRAPHS I have uploaded a program that plots HAL data as an Amplitude vs. Time graph on the screen in VGA mode. It is written in Turbo Pascal 5.5, and source code is included. This type of plot is particularly useful when HAL is used as an electrocardiograph machine. Just place the electrodes like they do on T.V., and the trace looks pretty authentic! Have fun! Jim. Msg#:20680 *PROJECTS* 07/11/89 00:44:57 From: JEAN-LOUIS ECOCHARD To: ALAN LEGRAND (Rcvd) Subj: HAL Alan, I just uploaded BIO3.ARC 4 channel real time sounds and graphics for HAL If you need the source, just ask. J.Louis Msg#:21072 *PROJECTS* 07/22/89 22:50:33 From: ALAN LEGRAND To: JEAN-LOUIS ECOCHARD (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 20680 (HAL) Jean, I downloaded it today. I'll let you know what I think. I have a question about my program DID IT ACTUALLY PRODUCE A MEANINGFUL DISPLAY? ( explanation: I think my HAL is broke it randomly transmits illegal sequences ie, 03 01 7c 78 74 03 ... 03 7b 7c 78 7c 03...) I had orginally assumed that my program could not keep up with the data which is the reason I thought the ROM routines were too slow A.L. Msg#:21303 *PROJECTS* 07/27/89 19:36:59 From: JEAN-LOUIS ECOCHARD To: ALAN LEGRAND (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 21072 (HAL) I got your source only, as I have a PC, not a MAC. Your program was a test of your FFT routine, with the display of a serie of numbers. The data looks accurate. Msg#:21307 *PROJECTS* 07/27/89 20:52:33 From: ALAN LEGRAND To: JEAN-LOUIS ECOCHARD (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 21303 (HAL) Thanks. (irrelevant message supressed), Alan Msg#:20769 *PROJECTS* 07/12/89 21:03:15 From: STEVE SOLOMON To: ALL Subj: HD64180 Could someone tell me which issue of byte described building a computer with the hd64180? Msg#:20788 *PROJECTS* 07/13/89 08:59:30 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: STEVE SOLOMON Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 20769 (HD64180) The September and October 1985 issues described the SB180 computer. The January, February, and March 1988 issues described the BCC180 computer. Finally, the April and May 1988 issues described the SmartSpooler. All are based on the HD64180 processor. Msg#:20818 *PROJECTS* 07/14/89 01:03:46 From: JAY PRINCE To: ANYONE Subj: Z8 - ALTERNATE LANGUAGE Hello, I need to find out if there is a source for Z8s with their EPROMs preburned with alternate languages. I heard mumblings about there being a FORTH version (micromint- but I don't have a catalog yet) and I was wondering: a) what versions of the chip are out there, b) who can supply low quantities of FORTH or other Z8s, and c) what's Zilog's address? are the solvent?? I wrote to Zilog with these questions and my letter was returned 'Company moved and left no forwarding address'... the address I had was 210 Hacienda Ave. Campbell Ca. etc. Thanks in advance! Msg#:20831 *PROJECTS* 07/14/89 09:11:58 From: STEVE CIARCIA To: JAY PRINCE (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 20818 (Z8 - ALTERNATE LANGUAGE) Micromint sells a Z8 with BASIC for $25 and a Z8 with Forth for $19. In addition, Micromint still might have a bunch of piggy-back ROM Z8 around. These are Z8 chips which have a socket for a 2716 (2732?) on top which could contan any Rommable language. --STeve Msg#:20856 *PROJECTS* 07/15/89 20:02:01 From: JAY PRINCE To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 20831 (Z8 - ALTERNATE LANGUAGE) Ok, I see. I was assuming that Zilog had released the Z8 with other languages over the years. The micromint deal includes manuals with the chips, right? (Jameco has the Z8 w/o documentation for $6.79) Next question, can anyone recommend a relativily inexpensive chip set for crt control? I'm looking to build a terminal with my Z8 system, and want to build a CRT controller into it. The Term-Mite and GT-180 boards are more comlplicated than I need. My only requirements are that it have 80 columns X 24 lines and be cheap. My wishes are to accomplish this with very few chips and I would like to have 25 rows. Graphics aren 't needed. Thanks alot for the advice! Jay Msg#:20870 *PROJECTS* 07/16/89 01:08:03 From: MICHAEL HAPP To: JEFF BACHIOCHI (Rcvd) Subj: RTC31/52 TECHNICAL MANUAL Jeff, I recently ordered a RTC52K-1 from CCI and I thought that I'd tell you that I was very impressed with the contents of the kit, and the effort that you put into the design. It is a clean little controller. I am getting prepared for the next round of articles describing INK-NET and am planning on utilizing the RS-485 networking around the ol' homestead. I also thought that you'd be interested in the "bugs" I found in the Tehnical Manual supplied with the kit. You've probably already found them (I realize that it's a Rev 1.0 manual), but just in case here they are. This is not meant to be an all-inclusive list, just the items that jumped out at me while I was reading the manual. 1. Page 11 - Figure description for JP18, first sentence. It reads: "JP18 shows the receiver of the RS-485 device controlled by T0, the same line that controls the receiver." I think that is supposed to say: "the same line that controls the transmitter." 2. Page 11 - Figure for connector S2. Pin 4 is labeled "*INT0". It is supposed to be "*INT1". 3. Page 16 - Second sentence. It reads: "(transmission must be 8 bits, no parity, and 2 stop bits)". The MCS BASIC-52 User's Manual (and my RTC52) suggest that it should read: "(transmission must be 8 bits, no parity, and 1 stop bit)". 4. Page 16 - Listing for BASIC test program. Line 30 says: "30 PORT1=PORT1.OR.10H". I think that it should be: "30 PORT1=PORT1.OR.01H". Finally, I think that it would be beneficial if the Figure on Page 10 for the RS-232 connector JP3 were labled for the pins that are used (e.g. pin2 - RXD, pin3 - TXD, pin5 - CTS, etc). This is just a suggestion... and I hope that this helps. Keep up the good work! I'm anxious to get my INK-NET online... <* Michael *> Msg#:20898 *PROJECTS* 07/17/89 08:36:40 From: JEFF BACHIOCHI To: MICHAEL HAPP (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 20870 (RTC31/52 TECHNICAL MANUAL) Michael, Thanks for your input on the RTC board and manual. It is a good feeling to know that users care enough to help improve our products! Comments are always welcome (both positive and negative). Ed's two part article on networking is sure to be a hit! It all starts in the next issue of INK! jeff Msg#:20885 *PROJECTS* 07/16/89 16:19:18 From: ROBERT BARBAGALLO To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: PORT1 Steve, I am trying to use the port1 command on the bcc52 computer. I only need 3 lines of output. I use the command PORT1= 1 and the bcc-52 hangs. I've tried port1= 01h to no avail. Is there something is not saying? Or is there other registers that have to be setup? Thanks for your help. Bob. Msg#:20901 *PROJECTS* 07/17/89 09:33:31 From: JEFF BACHIOCHI To: ROBERT BARBAGALLO (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 20885 (PORT1) Robert, Check the schematic on the BCC52. Note that PORT 1.3 is the Disable output which is ANDed with ALE. A zero on this pin will surely disable the ALE line and 'POOF' you're hung! Consider removing that connection and tying the input to the AND gate high to prevent this from happening. Otherwise be careful not to turn off that bit! Be advised, the rest of that port is used for various functions, be careful! jeff Msg#:21022 *PROJECTS* 07/20/89 21:41:43 From: ROBERT BARBAGALLO To: JEFF BACHIOCHI (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 20901 (PORT1) Jeff Thanks for the reply! I found the problem a few minutes after I logged off. I am using the BCC52 only for development, the finall product will not use any of the eprom functions, thanks for the warning. Bob Msg#:20886 *PROJECTS* 07/16/89 16:43:45 From: JAMES P. HICKS To: ALL Subj: MC146818A-RTC Has anybody put a MC146818 real time clock on the BCC bus. I attempted it using the multiplexed portion of the bus (AD0-AD7). I tried sync-ing AS and CE* to no avail. Is the bus cycle too fast for the MC146818 ? It should work on a 1 MHZ bus cycle,the BCC-52 cycle's are long enough. I have had no luck at all. The wiring is OK, Address decoding for the RTC is OK. When I read from the RTC all I get of course is FFH. It doesnt appear to be there. Msg#:20891 *PROJECTS* 07/17/89 01:36:20 From: DENNIS SOUTHERLAND To: ADAM SUNDOR (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 10414 (HAL) HI THIS IS DENNIS I BUILT THE HAL-4 AND IT SEEMS TO WORK OK, BUT IT WOULD BE NICE TO SAVE THE DATE ON DISK AND PLAY BACK LATER ON BIO2. DOES YOUR PROGRAM DO THIS. DENNIS SOUTHERLAND Msg#:20930 *PROJECTS* 07/18/89 00:14:10 From: TOM MCCLURE To: CCI TECH SUPPORT Subj: SMARTSPOOLER DRAM What is the difference between 21256 and 41256 DRAM chips? More specifically, can I use 21256 chips in my newly assembled Smartspooler kit? Thanks. Msg#:20946 *PROJECTS* 07/18/89 15:18:26 From: STEVE CIARCIA To: TOM MCCLURE (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 20930 (SMARTSPOOLER DRAM) The spooler requires 256Kx1 150 nsec RAMs. Better check the chip specs, and the complete part number (-1,-2, etc) too make sure. --Steve Msg#:21044 *PROJECTS* 07/21/89 19:18:52 From: GRANT HESS To: ALL Subj: IMAGEWISE I've just read through the entire message base on the Imagewise, and I feel a little disapointed that there isn't a good method of doing full color digitizing. Therefore, since I am an impulsive amature electronics nut, I am going to do my best to figure it out. Since I have a client (sort-of) who wants a full color frame grabber, and is willing to pay real money for it, I have a real incentive to do it. I'll check back in a few months to let you all know how it is working. If I even get anything accomplished. Thanks, Grant Hess. Msg#:21108 *PROJECTS* 07/24/89 11:02:51 From: STEVE CIARCIA To: GRANT HESS Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 21044 (IMAGEWISE) I presume that you read the messages about using 3 filters to make full color pictures with ZIP? You want a flash color converter? Got $3000 you want to spend? --Steve Msg#:21154 *PROJECTS* 07/25/89 09:09:28 From: ED NISLEY To: GRANT HESS Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 21044 (IMAGEWISE) Not to spray cold water on you, but why would your client stand still for a one-off design rather than a $2K or $3K system from, say, Data Translation? We've looked at what it takes to do a color frame grabber... and there are good reasons why they're not cheap! If you're doing a one-off, all that development must be amortized over one (count them, one) board -- and if you're not doing it for charity, you sure don't charge enough! Bottom line: we'd like to offer one, but it doesn't make sense right now. Msg#:21054 *PROJECTS* 07/22/89 08:57:24 From: JOSEPH FREEMAN To: ED NISLEY (Rcvd) Subj: SYNCHRONOUS IMAGEWISE? I would like to hook my ImageWise (serial version) to the DSP port in my NeXT machine. The port is a high speed synchronous serial port (direct from the 56000). Has anyone got a modified version of the Transmitter ROM that will work synchronous instead of asynch? Thanks, Msg#:21150 *PROJECTS* 07/25/89 08:55:44 From: ED NISLEY To: JOSEPH FREEMAN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 21054 (SYNCHRONOUS IMAGEWISE?) Unfortunately, not. It turns out that synchronous and asynchronous communications are different enough at the bit level that you need different hardware for each. For instance, asynch hardware sends a start bit, the data, maybe a parity bit, and a stop bit (which is actually nothing at all, but for a long enough time that the next start bit doesn't run into the last data/parity bit. This allows you to dribble bytes out at a rather slow rate; each byte has its own "start" marker so you know where to start counting. Sync hardware sends bits continuously and groups bytes into packets preceded by a special leadin bit sequence; it's optimized for high speed continuous data streams because the data bytes are packed together without individual start and stop bits. Although some multi-protocol chips can produce both types of output, the serial port built into an 8031 isn't one of them! Msg#:21383 *PROJECTS* 07/29/89 09:39:30 From: JOSEPH FREEMAN To: ED NISLEY (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 21150 (SYNCHRONOUS IMAGEWISE?) Thanks. Further investigation of the serial port on the NeXT reveals that both the sync and async ports are brought out. So I can use it async. Thanks for the help Msg#:21443 *PROJECTS* 07/31/89 13:35:00 From: ED NISLEY To: JOSEPH FREEMAN Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 21383 (SYNCHRONOUS IMAGEWISE?) They're both brought out on the same connector? How ya gonna explain what adapter you need to the guy at ComputerVille? Actually, I think some of those pins down around 21-25 are things like the clocks you need for synchronous operation. That makes the adapter a "standard RS-232 port" gizmo, of course. Tell us how the code works out! Msg#:21058 *PROJECTS* 07/22/89 13:59:17 From: RUSS RUDESILL To: ALL Subj: INVERTERS has any one had experience with 12 volt dc to 115 ac power inverters I need to hook up two that are just a like together need more current to start motor for refrigerator and run some small appliances. i also want to build a large capascity inverter i have a large battery charger are there any projects to do these things thanks russ out. Msg#:21059 *PROJECTS* 07/22/89 14:07:31 From: JOHN MUCHOW To: RUSS RUDESILL Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 21058 (INVERTERS) I'm not familiar enough with inverters to know if they can handle it but be sure to factor the motor's starting surge current in your rating of the inverters. It can be several times the motor's running current! Msg#:21156 *PROJECTS* 07/25/89 09:21:18 From: ED NISLEY To: RUSS RUDESILL Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 21058 (INVERTERS) Unless you're getting some really fancy inverters, you can't just wire them up in parallel and get anything other than a meltdown... An inverter has an oscillator that synthesizes the 60 Hz waveform. The two oscillators will not run at exactly the same frequency and will certainly not have the same frequency-versus-load curve, so they'll not be creating synchronous outputs. Guess what happens if you connect two voltage sources together when one is putting out +170 V and the other is putting out -170 V? Yup! Some inverters (usually intended for big, expensive installations) do allow paralleling the outputs. They've got a separate connection that allows one oscillator to drive the other; with the outputs synchronized, the connection is just what you want. Most of the cheap inverters specifically state that they're not for use with AC motors; there's a good reason for that! Msg#:21785 *PROJECTS* 08/09/89 08:03:30 From: DAVE MILLER To: RUSS RUDESILL Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 21058 (INVERTERS) you might try looking in places that supply RV supplies, I remember seeing some a couple of years back that would run refrigerators and motor stuff, they werent cheep though. Msg#:21074 *PROJECTS* 07/22/89 23:18:45 From: DON MICHAEL To: ALL Subj: EPROM PROBLEM Has any one using the Serial EPROM Programmer had problem reading a EPROM mad by AMD number AM27128A-2DC? The SEP reads this EPROM as all FF's in all locations, but I know its programmed with data. The SEP will read other 27128 chips OK! Perhaps there is something about this chip that does not like the timing of the SEP. Also has anyone done any work on an adapter board and software to read and program the 1Meg and up EPROMs. What about the 8748 series single chip MPU's. I saw in CCINK that there is a board for the 8751. Will this work with the 8748 series also? Aloha from Hawaii. Msg#:21084 *PROJECTS* 07/23/89 13:01:04 From: BARCLAY BROWN To: ALL Subj: WANTED: RS232 PROGRAMMABLE THERMOSTAT I'm looking for an RS232 programmable thermostat for some home automation projects. Ideally, it would be like the $35 programmable thermostats from the local Sears (or Home Depot -- my favorite) in that it can make say 4 timed temperature changes during the day, or daily, or just on weekends etc. The additional feature that's important in my system is to be able to change this programming via a command from a PC, preferably RS232. It just seems to me that someone probably already makes something like this--pointers to manufacturers would be apprecieated--but if not, anyone know of designs for either building such, or modifying an existing programmable thermostat? Thanks for a great mag, and I especially enjoyed the 1988 reprint book. Msg#:21287 *PROJECTS* 07/27/89 12:22:41 From: MATTHEW J. MABERINO To: BARCLAY BROWN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 21084 (WANTED: RS232 PROGRAMMABLE) Funny you should mention thermostats! I've been busting everyone on the bbs's onions for about a month on the subject. My grandfather has glaucoma, so I (with everyones help) designed a digital thermostat using lage 7 segment display's so he could see and set the temp. I used the 8751 chip as the heart, and this chip does have serial I/O capabilities, it should be no problem to add serial I/O. If you don't mind building it, and making the programming mods, I'll be happy to send you a copy of the schematics, and the software. Msg#:21388 *PROJECTS* 07/29/89 18:08:32 From: BARCLAY BROWN To: MATTHEW J. MABERINO (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 21287 (WANTED: RS232 PROGRAMMABLE) Thanks for the offer, and yes, I'll take you up on it. I would prefer to find one built, that I can just buy, but I'm not averse to building it if I have to. THanks again. Barclay Brown 3277 Roswell Road, Suite 300 Atlanta, GA 30305 Msg#:21641 *PROJECTS* 08/04/89 20:30:41 From: MATTHEW J. MABERINO To: BARCLAY BROWN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 21388 (WANTED: RS232 PROGRAMMABLE) I feel priveledged! I get the stuff to you within the week. Msg#:21286 *PROJECTS* 07/27/89 12:17:39 From: JAMES MORGAN To: ALL Subj: DDT-51 CUSTOM PAR I/O CARDS To all - - Does anyone have the names and address of vendors that make/supply bi-directional par. cards. I was told IBM and 2 other vendor market such cards. - I would appreciate any feedback (asap). - James P Morgan 5226 via hacienda #115 orlando fl 32809 - 8-5 m-f EST - 407-826-7297 or 826-1164 - Many thanks in advance.. JP Msg#:21304 *PROJECTS* 07/27/89 20:11:48 From: LAWRENCE LHOTE To: JAMES MORGAN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 21286 (DDT-51 CUSTOM PAR I/O CARDS) If you are a hardware person you might be interested in modifying one of those really cheap parallel printer cards($9-15) to make it bidirectional...those Tiwanexe DTK cards can be modiofied by scraping off a trace and soldering on a wire to make it a parallel two-way port.... I have seen at least two magazine articles and I could send you a copy of the one I have from the magazine MICRO Cornucopia. Bruce Eckel did the writing. I'll Xerox the appropriate pages and send them off to you if you wish. Leave a message on this board with your mailing address. Msg#:21340 *PROJECTS* 07/28/89 09:59:06 From: JEFF BACHIOCHI To: JAMES MORGAN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 21286 (DDT-51 CUSTOM PAR I/O CARDS) James, See the DDT-51 manual or the CCInk Mar/Apr '88 article by Steve & Ed, "Circuit Cellar Neighborhood Strategic Defense Initiative". The printer port modification is described in each! If immediate is what you need, you can order a modified port from Circuit Cellar Inc. jeff Msg#:21349 *PROJECTS* 07/28/89 13:48:57 From: JAMES MORGAN To: LAWRENCE LHOTE (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 21304 (DDT-51 CUSTOM PAR I/O CARDS) Lawrence - James Morgan (JP) in orlando Fl - Your help would be very appreciated. Actually i have this request for the parallel info from another person BUT i would also like the info as i am writing a bi-directional parallel file transfer program ( ala Brooklyn Bridge and LapLINK..ect) - Again many thansk! - James Morgan 5226 via hacienda #115 orlando FL , 32809 Msg#:21350 *PROJECTS* 07/28/89 13:52:14 From: JAMES MORGAN To: JEFF BACHIOCHI (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 21340 (DDT-51 CUSTOM PAR I/O CARDS) Jeff - James Morgan here in Orlando Fl. - Thanks for the feedback. Actually was looking for the name of vendors that currently offer 'true' bi-directional parallel boards. Hopefully they would have board drawings and software examples on how to drive their boards. - Again , many thanks.. JP Msg#:21371 *PROJECTS* 07/28/89 20:02:02 From: LAWRENCE LHOTE To: JAMES MORGAN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 21349 (DDT-51 CUSTOM PAR I/O CARDS) I'll get the pages copied and sent to you the first of next week. Msg#:21434 *PROJECTS* 07/31/89 09:28:59 From: STEVE CIARCIA To: JAMES MORGAN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 21286 (DDT-51 CUSTOM PAR I/O CARDS) CCI (203-875-2751) sells a bi-directional parallel port card and a 3 foot interleaved ground cable for $59 for the DDT-51. --Steve Msg#:21495 *PROJECTS* 08/01/89 10:55:46 From: JAMES MORGAN To: LAWRENCE LHOTE (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 21371 (DDT-51 CUSTOM PAR I/O CARDS) Lawrence - JP in Orlando Fl. - Thanks very much for your help with this. - Hopefully i can return the favor in the future..JP Msg#:21496 *PROJECTS* 08/01/89 10:58:15 From: JAMES MORGAN To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 21434 (DDT-51 CUSTOM PAR I/O CARDS) Steve - Jame Morgan (JP) in Orlando FL - I will give them a call asap. Thanks alot for the feedback. - Msg#:21602 *PROJECTS* 08/03/89 23:15:20 From: LAWRENCE LHOTE To: JAMES MORGAN Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 21495 (DDT-51 CUSTOM PAR I/O CARDS) I just got those pages in the mail today. I had an aunt pass away over the weekend and I got diverted. I've modified one of the parallel cards but am trying to locate a rather obscure IC. It's an A/D chip TLC532...no one seems to know how to get me a small quantity of them...all the 'big electronics houses' want me to spend $60 dollars. Msg#:21710 *PROJECTS* 08/07/89 10:43:39 From: JEFF BACHIOCHI To: JAMES MORGAN Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 21350 (DDT-51 CUSTOM PAR I/O CARDS) James, In order for all clone printer port boards to 100% compatible the board must remain an output only board! When Big Blue errors, everyone gleefully accepts the mistake and goes on repeating it! Let's not stand for it any longer! Nice to see a company like CCI trash tradition and offer a bi-directional port as standard :-) jeff Msg#:21351 *PROJECTS* 07/28/89 13:54:08 From: HARRIS HARGOVAN To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 7471 (KEYBOARD FOR SMARTTERM) I would apreciate if you could send me some information about the keyboards for IBM xt and AT . My address is Harris Hargovan P.Oox 981, Willowdale B. Ontario, Canada M2K 2T6. I am willing to pay all the mailing costs if you can tell me where to send the money. Thx Harris Msg#:21358 *PROJECTS* 07/28/89 15:29:00 From: LARRY JOHNSON To: ALL Subj: IMAGEWISE AMIGA Does anyone have or know of software for an AMIGA to allow use of an ImageWise? I made the IW for use with my XT, but now have moved to AMIGA. I dot want to have to buy a new Digitizer!!! I see there is a program for a TI99 computer, and the MAC, surely there's an AMIGA user out there??? Msg#:21444 *PROJECTS* 07/31/89 14:02:42 From: MARK DAMISH To: JOHN DYBOWSKI (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 10178 (DDT51) Ability to step over a call seems to be a "basic" function of a debugger. Nice project, but don't mosed rom-based debuggers do a little bit more?? I don't mean to sound so negative, I'm doing things with the DDT-51 that I wouldn't have touched without it. Msg#:21580 *PROJECTS* 08/03/89 13:48:39 From: ED NISLEY To: MARK DAMISH (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 21444 (DDT51) The ability to step over calls is considered essential nowadays. Five years ago it was the state of the art in debugging support! I have a regrettable tendency to complexicate the code beyond all justification, so Steve often gets me in a hammerlock while he points out the benefits of shipping something that does all the essentials but doesn't attempt everything. Usually we reach a compromise somewhere between what I think is essential and the shipping date he knows is essential. All those fancy features are a simple matter of software. The hardware is there, you've got a goodly slug of firmware that supports the essentials and is written to allow reasonable additions (although you'll run out of space in the Debug RAM pretty quickly!), so all ya gotta do is decide what you want and code it up. The fact that "it ain't that easy" is why it's not there in the first place... the selling price for something has to reflect the effort put into it, so if you want all the bells and whistles the projects stop costing a hundred bucks. We decided that simpler was better in this case... but we're also thinking about a second pass at the code to add those features. How much would you be willing to pay? (Were I a doctor, this procedure would be called a "wallet biopsy") Msg#:22808 *PROJECTS* 09/08/89 16:10:45 From: MARK DAMISH To: ED NISLEY Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 21580 (DDT51) Thanks for the reply Ed. I understand. I didn't mean to imply that the product was usless, just looking for a way to avoid going into a software delay etc... without having to set a break point every time. Starting with +zero+ experiance in 8031 software, i've managed to put together a fax system for displaying Reutors press photos which are transmitted over short-wave from Argentina. 800x600x64 levels of gray. the rtc board samples voltages and transmits the gray level value over the serial lin to a P.C.. I'd never of thought of starting +any+ project without the DDT-51. As a matter of fact, the DDT-51 is what got me interested in the 8031 to start with!! I'd love to see a DDT-HC11 !! I wonder if you can point me towards information regarding C compilers for the 8031 family. ie: Performance for floating point.... size of object code.... Use with 87c51fa without external ram or rom... etc... . All the best of luck, Mark Msg#:21465 *PROJECTS* 07/31/89 22:02:50 From: MATTHEW LEVINE To: KEN DAVIDSON (Rcvd) Subj: CC CONTROLLERS KEN , I WOULD LIKE TO KNOW IF YOU COULD PROVIDE ME WITH SOME OPERATIONAL INFORMATION ON THE CONTROLLERS THAT MICRO MINT / C.C. OFFERS FOR PUBLIC SALE. THE INQUIRY THAT FOLLOWS ASSUMES NO AFTERMARKET HARDWARE MODIFICATIONS TO THE CONTROLLER OR ANY OF THE I/O CARDS. . 1.) WHICH CONTROLLER WILL PROVIDE ME THE MOST INPUT DEVICES AND THE MOST OUTPUT DEVICES AND IN WHAT PROPORTIONS (I:O)? 2.) WHAT VOLTAGES AND CURRENTS WOULD BE REQUIRED FOR FULL (TEMPORARY) BATTERY POWERED OPERATION. . THE APPLICATION THAT I HAVE IN MIND MAY REQUIRE UP TO 90 EACH INPUT AND OUTPUT DEVICES AND REQUIRES FULL UNINTERRUPTED OPERATION UNDER UTILITY POWER FAILURE CONDITIONS FOR A PERIOD OF TIME THAT WOULD ENABLE THE CONTROLLER TO SHUT DOWN AND / OR RECONFIGURE THE CONTROLLED PROCESS FOR LIMITED FUNCTION UNDER THIS CONDITION . . THANKS FOR YOUR TIME AND ATTENTION IN THIS MATTER , . ->->-> MATT <-<-<- Msg#:21478 *PROJECTS* 08/01/89 09:10:32 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: MATTHEW LEVINE (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 21465 (CC CONTROLLERS) The BCC180 has the most parallel bits on-board: 48 bits. These can be configured as input or output in groups of eight. Each BCC53 added to the system adds another 48 bits, but there is more on the BCC53 that boosts the price that you can't use. You can also use a BCC55 proto board to add as many I/O bits as you want. The BCC180 uses a maximum of 750 mA at +5V and around 40 mA at both +12V and -12V for RS-232. If you're not using RS-232 or are communicating serially via the TTL pins, then you just need the +5V. I'll leave it up to you to decide how much battery is needed for how long it must last. You can get the current consumption down by a few hundred milliamps by leaving off the DRAM and replacing LSTTL with CMOS. Msg#:21492 *PROJECTS* 08/01/89 10:39:36 From: STEVE CIARCIA To: MATTHEW LEVINE (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 21465 (CC CONTROLLERS) Ken is just partial to the the BCC180 but there are other boards. A BCC52C for example oly takes about 80 mA to run. All BCC peripheral boards work with any processor and approximately 8 to 16 (depending upon addressing) boards can be added to a processor. So, you could have 128 optoisolator channels, 256 A/D channels, 8 times 48 bits of parallel I/O, etc. Deside what you are controlling and how much you want to spend. --STeve Msg#:21475 *PROJECTS* 08/01/89 05:57:59 From: DALE NASSAR To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: BCC 30 Steve, Should a front-end anti-aliasing filter and a sample-and-hold circuit be added to the BCC30? I plan to input 500-5000Hz. Thanks, --Dale Msg#:21489 *PROJECTS* 08/01/89 10:24:44 From: STEVE CIARCIA To: DALE NASSAR (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 21475 (BCC 30) The BCC30 is quoted to run at 10,000 samples per second but I believe it will do closer to 20,000, depending upon processor speed. I suppose some filter would help from digitizing spikes that aren't real but I doubt a sample and hold would make much difference if this is audio. Try it and let us know. --Steve Msg#:21502 *PROJECTS* 08/01/89 14:29:37 From: MICHAEL PENDER To: ALL Subj: RAM CHIPS I have some 19 Telentics Touch Tone encoder chips that a friend of mine from college gave, you know, the heart of a touch-tone phone? Anyway, they are pretty useless to me, so if anyone out there is interested I'd be happy to trade them for some 41256 120 ns RAM chips. Since they were a gift I'd rather not sell them. I don't drop in here very often, it would be easier to reach me at home at 668-0147 (voice). Msg#:21503 *PROJECTS* 08/01/89 16:19:51 From: JEFF BOLY To: TO WHOM IT MAY CONCERN Subj: DDT-51 I am interested to know if anyone has considered replacing the 74ls244's ic5 & ic6 with a 74ls245. This also applies to ic2 & ic3. It seems to me that this would be a much better way to create bidirectional signals. If there is a reason for not using a 74ls245 will someone let me know. thanx, Jeff Boly Msg#:21582 *PROJECTS* 08/03/89 14:06:02 From: ED NISLEY To: JEFF BOLY (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 21503 (DDT-51) The parts you use in a project tend to reflect what you've got in the parts drawers at the time. LS245s are perfectly OK, although you will have to tinker around with the control signals a bit. Msg#:21527 *PROJECTS* 08/01/89 23:58:08 From: LANCE LARSEN To: ALL Subj: AMIGA AND HAL I own an Amiga 500 and I have not seen any software available for the Amiga to run HAL. It seems to me that with the simplicity of graphics and sound on the Amiga there would be some potential for some good programs for HAL. If anyone has any information on this subject please let me know. Thanks Msg#:21658 *PROJECTS* 08/05/89 02:39:06 From: JACK ANDREW JACKSON To: ALL Subj: SP1000 VOICE RECONITION I am in need of the demonstration software that was mentioned in the SP1000 speech recognition project (Byte Nov 1984). This software was originally available from General Instrument Co. but after several tries and dead ends I have been unsuccessful. I would prefer to have the demonstration source code if possible, not the actual Basic/assembly mix used for the project. I would be most appreciative if someone would upload this code to this board or contact me at (505)-524-3910 collect. Jack Jackson (BTW, General Instrument division supporting the SP1000 no longer exists.) Msg#:21684 *PROJECTS* 08/06/89 12:51:10 From: WILSON SNYDER To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: 8255 FOR PARALLEL IO I am preparing a project where I need a large number of parallel inputs and outputs, connected through a motherboard to a 6502. I considered the 8255, but it does not have the capability to program an individual line as a input or output (a requirement.) Is this true? If so, any suggestions for what chip to use? I am considering the 6821 PIA which has single line programmability, but I don't need all of the fancy interrupt stuff, and would prefer having 3 8bit ports over only 2 to save costs. Any suggestions? Msg#:21708 *PROJECTS* 08/07/89 10:23:56 From: STEVE CIARCIA To: WILSON SNYDER (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 21684 (8255 FOR PARALLEL IO) While there might be some individual-line programmable PIA chips, I am not aware of any off hand (Zilog maybe?). Your only hope may be to use descrete latches in a 1 of 8 output latch in parallel with a 1 of eight input buffer, all 74-series devices. --Steve Msg#:21685 *PROJECTS* 08/06/89 12:54:29 From: WILSON SNYDER To: JEFF BACHIOCHI (Rcvd) Subj: 11.0592 XTALS What is a good source for the 11.0592 Mhz rystals needed for the 8051? Also, for the 27pf caps? Jameco and JDR, my normal sources, don't seem to carry the crystals. I assume that the caps need only be cheap disk types, but jameco only has that value in mylar. Msg#:21713 *PROJECTS* 08/07/89 10:58:38 From: JEFF BACHIOCHI To: WILSON SNYDER (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 21685 (11.0592 XTALS) Wilson, 11.0592 MHz crystals are available from CCI. You may want to add Digikey to your normal source list. "X078" is their crystal part number and "P4017" is their 27pf ceramic disc part #. jeff Msg#:21750 *PROJECTS* 08/08/89 07:58:53 From: PAUL MARICHAL To: ALL Subj: VOICE SYNTHESIZER DOES ANYONE KNOW OF A PROGRAM THAT CONVERTS TEXT TO ALLOPHONE FOR USE WITH A VOICE SYNTHESIZER CHIP. Msg#:21766 *PROJECTS* 08/08/89 14:33:11 From: BOB PADDOCK To: PAUL MARICHAL (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 21750 (VOICE SYNTHESIZER) Check your local Radio Shack: SP0256 and CTS256 chip set does what you are asking. It dosn't sound all that grate tho.... Msg#:21784 *PROJECTS* 08/09/89 06:56:58 From: PAUL MARICHAL To: BOB PADDOCK (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 21766 (VOICE SYNTHESIZER) THANKS, I HAVE THE HARDWAREDONE USING THOSE CHIPS. I'M LOOKING FOR AN ALGORITHYM THAT WILL ALLOW ME TO TYPE IN WORDS IN ASCII AND THE PROGRAM WILL PARSE THE TEXT INTO ALLOPHONE SOUNDS OF THE ENGLISH SOUND WHICH CAN THEN BE MAPPPED AND SENT THE THE VOICE CHIP. DO YOU KNOW OF ANY SUCH PROGRAMS OR ALGORITHYM? Msg#:21795 *PROJECTS* 08/09/89 12:12:07 From: BOB PADDOCK To: PAUL MARICHAL (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 21784 (VOICE SYNTHESIZER) I do not understand]S}i~r?{_ {_{_ }i~r Isn't that wha}it the CT}iS256 does for you{_?~r ~r{_~r {_ ~r Msg#:21798 *PROJECTS* 08/09/89 12:31:01 From: ED NISLEY To: PAUL MARICHAL (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 21750 (VOICE SYNTHESIZER) Actually, the program you want is the subject of a lot of research! Because English doesn't have a unique mapping from text to pronunciation, the program can't use simple rules... there are so many exceptions that you spend all your time figuring out which exception you want. The text to speech chips use the simplest possible rules and expect you to spoon-feed them the difficult cases as separate phonemes. But it would be nice! Msg#:21891 *PROJECTS* 08/11/89 15:53:48 From: MICHAEL PENDER To: PAUL MARICHAL Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 21750 (VOICE SYNTHESIZER) I believe Radio Shack sells an allophone syntesizer for about $10, with the option for text to speech for an additional $13 or so using an external speech ROM. I have one around here that I plan to put into a sound card for an Apple. As for a program to convert text to speech you'd need to tell us for what type of computer/synthesizer chip. Msg#:21775 *PROJECTS* 08/08/89 18:21:39 From: D. L. VANDER LINDEN To: TO WHOM IT MAY CONCERN Subj: HAL4 I am attempting to locate a user friendly program which will allow for data storage and retrevial of input from HAL-4. I have an IBM-PC and DOS 2.1 . I am willing to accept collect calls from those who truly have something. Thank you. Msg#:21855 *PROJECTS* 08/11/89 00:48:29 From: JEAN-LOUIS ECOCHARD To: D. L. VANDER LINDEN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 21775 (HAL4) I uploaded HAL2F.EXE that captures data from HAL to a file. I have nothing yet to analyze it. Sorry but there was a bug in BIO3, I left some test code forcing the display to be AT&T. This is fixed and I profited to add different sound routines and graphic display. Sound is now in Text mode too and wave type selectable. In the future, I will allow BIO3 to get data from HAL2F generated files. On a generic IBM PC (4.77 Mhz) You will not get real time with BIO3, sorry. An 8Mhz PC is OK. The new BIO3 is in the file BIO3-1.ARC. Tell me if it works OK. Read BIO3.DOC for the new sound features. Msg#:21834 *PROJECTS* 08/10/89 12:49:08 From: JEFF LEGG To: ALL Subj: AMIGA DEV To anyone: I have an Amiga and would like to do 8051 development work on it. I have been unable to locate a cross-assembler and would appreciate any information that would lead me to a p so Tx J Legg Msg#:21854 *PROJECTS* 08/11/89 00:23:02 From: BARCLAY BROWN To: BOB MUNCK Subj: YOUR X-10 SYSTEM SETUP Hello Bob, I read a printout of your message in early 88 about your X-10 system. I am curious about what you have set up. I use X-10 a lot controlled by the BSR CP290 computer interface, and my own software to drive it. How did you do the IR output to send commands to your stereo etc? Also how do you handle your HVAC control? What kind of temp sensors do you have, and does the computer monitor them all the time? I hope you see this msg; don't know if you still log in here. Thanks, Barclay Brown Msg#:22005 *PROJECTS* 08/15/89 05:28:29 From: MURRAY PEARCE To: SYSOP (Rcvd) Subj: SEP Hello again Ken, I was wondering if you could give me some info on the Version 2 eprom for the serial Eprom Programmer. Do I have to purchase it, or can I get a copy to download ? Regards Murray Pearce Msg#:22007 *PROJECTS* 08/15/89 08:43:58 From: JEFF BACHIOCHI To: MURRAY PEARCE (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 22005 (SEP) Murray, The version SEP version 2.0 EPROM is only available from Micromint The cost is $20.00. This replacement EPROM will get you a few extra bells and whistles. Byte fill function. System ROM move to memory buffer. 6 additional definable EPROM types. A few minor changes to the way things worked before include. A pass over programming any FFh value and using the fast programming algorithm, if possible, for standalone mode. jeff Msg#:22235 *PROJECTS* 08/21/89 08:38:25 From: MURRAY PEARCE To: JEFF BACHIOCHI (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 22007 (SEP) Hi Jeff, Thanks for the info. An order will follow. Regards Murray Pearce By4now !! Msg#:22062 *PROJECTS* 08/16/89 19:47:42 From: ALEX BEWLEY To: ALL Subj: 8032 SERIAL PORT In a BYTE ages ago there was an article about the Intel 8051 series of microcontrollers. I have been trying to get the darn serial port on an 8032 to work, to no avail. Has anybody got some code with the ENTIRE initialization procedure for the serial port? I am trying to get the microcontroller to talk to my AT through a 1488 RS-232 transmitter and a 1489 RS-232 receiver. Alex Msg#:22163 *PROJECTS* 08/19/89 09:31:10 From: TIM MCDONOUGH To: ALEX BEWLEY (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 22062 (8032 SERIAL PORT) There's a book called "Mastering Digital Device Control" by William Houghton that does a pretty good job of explaining the 8051 family basics including the serial port. He includes setting baud rate, sending/receiving characters, etc. The part of the book you would find most useful is the complete source code to an 8031 based EPROM programmer that interfaces to a host computer through an RS232 port. The book is published by Sybex. Tim McDonough INK Research Staff Msg#:22104 *PROJECTS* 08/17/89 15:19:06 From: RANDY MCVITTIE To: ED NISLEY (Rcvd) Subj: 8749 EMULATION Hi Ed. I am presently looking for a way of doing some ICE for the 8749 microcontroller. I liked the work you did on the 8051 project and I may get around to building that one as well but not at the moment. I would like to use the 8749 because it is used in some designs that I work on already use it and they are much cheaper than the 8751's are. My aim is to build something somewhere between a project like the one you outlined in the DDT-51 project and the one that is outlined in Intel's manual. I guess I'm fairly well set up here at my end, I've got almost all the Intel manuals that I think I'll need and I have d/l the TASM cross assembler and I have a DATA I/O EPROM programmer. Well about all I need from you would be any thoughts of problems I could encounter mounting this project. I'm not really all that comfortable in machine level language from past experience it is just to darn frustrating but I'll try to persevere. Well Ed, I like to say thanks in advance of any comments that you may have on this kind of thing. BFN .........RMcV Msg#:22363 *PROJECTS* 08/23/89 11:14:25 From: ED NISLEY To: RANDY MCVITTIE (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 22104 (8749 EMULATION) I'll cheerfully admit I haven't studied the '48 system, so I'll avoid giving any detailed advice that is completely wrong... The DDT51 system requires external program memory so it can download and change the code to insert breakpoints and so forth. Thus, it won't work with EPROM-based controllers like the 8751 and 8748. The tricky part was figuring out how to share memory between the PC and the controller without building fancy dual-ported RAM; you can use the same software handshaking techniques with the '48s, although squeezing the interrupt and status lines onto the chip may be a challenge... The '48 has a single step pin, which may give you a simpler way to handle single step functions than the firmware loop in the DDT51 code. You may be able to do something clever with the state of the interrupt and single step pins to let your firmware figure out what's going on, but this will take more poring over the manual than I've done. The catch with hardware single stepping is that you can't dump the registers into the shared memory if you can't run any instructions, so it may turn out that the single step pin is a boat anchor. In any event, I think you can probably pull it off if you don't try to get too fancy. The DDT51 system traded off function for simplicity in several places, but still turns out to be mighty handy... give it a shot and see what you come up with! Msg#:22619 *PROJECTS* 08/30/89 13:36:44 From: RANDY MCVITTIE To: ED NISLEY (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 22363 (8749 EMULATION) Thank you for your comments Ed. I have been thinking of several ways to go about doing the task at hand but I have yet to start wirewrapping anything. The idea that I have is very simple. To start with I plan on just using a 6116 RAM interfaced to the modified printer port as you described and using that to hold the program memory. I already have the TASM software which I think may work well enough for my immediate tasks to compile my source code. When I have the source debugged and compiled then I'll just print it out to the RAM, once the RAM is loaded then just set the processor to run it. I figure that this wi ll be a good start. I should be able to get a good start with something this simple. The added features of breakpoints etc. I plan on incorporating as I progress. Well I'll let you know how it goes. BFN Msg#:22623 *PROJECTS* 08/30/89 16:43:07 From: ED NISLEY To: RANDY MCVITTIE (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 22619 (8749 EMULATION) Sounds good to me. The trick will be getting the processor to hold still and release the bus while your PC is loading the RAM... but the simplest solution you describe will work just fine: reset the fool thing and release it when all is ready. Keep us up to date! Msg#:22164 *PROJECTS* 08/19/89 10:35:32 From: JERRY BLACK To: ED NISLEY (Rcvd) Subj: RS-485 BUS TURNAROUND I'm putting together a chain of 647180's which will talk to each other via a synchronous serial bus, using two twisted pairs (one for data, one for clock). My question is, is the logic level defined for the case during bus release? Try again: say the master has just completed a message, and then goes into the hi-Z state, releasing the bus. What do all the receivers hanging on the bus perceive the logic level to be when nobody's talking? Does this depend on the last active level which was placed on the bus? This is a concern to me because I don't want bogus clock pulses to be detected by all the recievers just because the bus is being handed off. I can't find anything in the 75176 specs to answer this question, and I don't think your CCI article addresses this issue explicitly either. BTW, I'm developing this on (what else?) my SB180's. I built a very nifty & cheap 647180 programmer board (7 support DIPs) which connects to the SB180 ex-bus. EXTREMELY simple software, as well (2-pages)! Think this might go in an issue of CCI? Msg#:22305 *PROJECTS* 08/22/89 05:28:26 From: JACK MEFFORD To: JERRY BLACK (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 22164 (RS-485 BUS TURNAROUND) Like any tri-state bus, the RS-485 bus is undefined when all drivers are disabled. The TI data sheets do not specify the state of the 75176's receiver when the inputs are open. National makes an identical part, DS3695, and they claim that the receiver outputs a '1' when the inputs are open. However, this is irrelevant because when you connect your receiver to even a tri-state bus, the inputs are not longer open--they are connected to perhaps a 1000 foot long antenna. The receivers are sensitive high-gain amplifiers with a differential threshold of just 200 mV. I have observed them to go into oscillation just by waving my hand over open inputs. So spurious clock signals on the line are quite possible when no one is talking. Possible solutions: 1. Use software to detect noise. For example, ignore as noise all messages that do not begin with a defined flag byte. However, this could be burdensome in a noisy environment. 2. Use an intelligent serial interface such as the Intel 8044. This chip was designed just for these applications, which Intel calls Bitnet. The 8044 chip handles all of the work of noise detection, addressing, and framing and can operate in either synchronous or asynchronous modes. It can handle 2.4 Mbps in clocked mode like you are using or 375 Kbps in async. The chip's core is an 8051. While a nice solution, it may be overkill for your application and requires putting another 40-pin chip on board. 3. Force the bus into a defined state when idle using pullup and pulldown resistors. This method is very easy and I have used it successfully in the past. I put a 470 ohm pullup on the positive line of the pair and a 470 ohm pulldown on the negative line of the pair. It is only necessary to do this at one location on the bus, usually at the bus master. I also connect a 220 ohm terminating resistor between the two lines. All together, these resistors provide an equivalent termination of about 150 ohms for each line. Note that the resistors form a three-resistor voltage divider--470 from +5V to line A, 220 from line A to line B, and 470 from line B to GND. This gives a solid 1 volt difference between lines A and B when all drivers are disabled, well above the 200 mV threshold. 4. Do nothing and hope for the best. Very often this works fine. --Jack Msg#:22338 *PROJECTS* 08/22/89 18:50:08 From: JERRY BLACK To: JACK MEFFORD (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 22305 (RS-485 BUS TURNAROUND) Jack, I'm not going to use an expensive controller. I'll be using the National part, which says that when the inputs are open~rm#~rw3}i}i on the bus end, the receiver gives a high level (you mention this). I'd thought of your pullup/pulldown solution, I guess this is what I'll do. I was wondering what the CCI guys do on their RTC design. National calls the chip by the same name as TI, 75176. Thanks for the reply! Msg#:22366 *PROJECTS* 08/23/89 11:32:53 From: ED NISLEY To: JERRY BLACK (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 22338 (RS-485 BUS TURNAROUND) It turns out that the TI part outputs an "inactive" level that looks just like a stop bit to your serial port. In effect, you can't tell when the bus isn't being driven because there's no change in output level. We've been running a few hundred feet of line without trouble, although it is not in a particularly hostile environment. For small networks I suspect you don't need anything particularly fancy, and the standard termination will keep the two lines away from the switching threshold if you don't have severe noise problems. INKNet uses a checksum over the whole message and a timeout to discard broken fragments and glitches, so it's fairly resistant to occasional noise bursts. As with any network, the more frequently you have damaged messages, the less useful traffic can get through... so fixing the noise should be higher on the list than repairing the damage after the fact. Msg#:22200 *PROJECTS* 08/20/89 14:30:56 From: CHARLES C. CRABB To: JEFF BOCHIOCHI Subj: RTC52 PROBLEMS Jeff, I've been unable to get my RTC52 kit operational and I'm not sure what to try next. Basically, after sending via the RS232 (from a PC, 9600,N,8,1 thru a null modem) I get a semirandom character back. After that CTS is turned off (I think). If characters are sent anyway, they are simply echoed back. Is it obvious what is happening here? Any suggestions would be gratly appreciated. Thanks, CHuck Msg#:22240 *PROJECTS* 08/21/89 09:35:44 From: JEFF BACHIOCHI To: CHARLES C. CRABB (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 22200 (RTC52 PROBLEMS) Charles, The RTC52 transmits (RS-232) on pin3 of JP3. The standard PC's async port will receive on its pin3. No null modem (swap) cable is nesessary. Check that pin 10 on the 80C52 (TTL receive) is getting characters from your PC. Hope this helps! jeff Msg#:22205 *PROJECTS* 08/20/89 16:11:21 From: ROBERT BUSKIRK To: JEFF BACHIOCHI (Rcvd) Subj: IC TESTER I'm looking for the file VECTOR.CPT and VECTOR.VDR, I've completed the project and purchased the software but these files are not included...? Msg#:22244 *PROJECTS* 08/21/89 10:00:26 From: JEFF BACHIOCHI To: ROBERT BUSKIRK (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 22205 (IC TESTER) Robert, The vector.vdr is a VECTOR DIRECTORY FILE. Simply a list of the vector files to be used by the 'Vector Compaction Compiler'. The user can create a different .vdr file for different uses depending on what you want in the look-up library. The vector.cpt is the compacted file containing all the vector as taken from the vector.vdr list. These 2 files are created. The first by the user (.vdr) and the second by the compiler (.cpt). Incidentally, both are included on the diskettes from CCI. .CPT on disk 1 and .VDR (with the vector files) on disk 2. jeff Msg#:22214 *PROJECTS* 08/20/89 20:38:07 From: DALE H. COOK To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: SEP - FEB85 Steve - I've built your original serial EPROM programmer (BYTE - Feb. '85) and I've got a problem - it won't write. (No write LED, output pin of 555 is always low) I built mine from Ciarcia's Circuit Cellar Volume VI. I have the corrections to the magazine schematic from here. Are there any known errors in the schematic from the book? I've triple-checked the wiring and it is correct per the book schematic. Any ideas? - Dale Msg#:22259 *PROJECTS* 08/21/89 10:47:03 From: STEVE CIARCIA To: DALE H. COOK (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 22214 (SEP - FEB85) If you built it from the book then all corrections are there. I suggest that you check your wiring and connections. Virtually thousands of experimenters have built that programmer with successful results. --Steve Good Luck Msg#:22262 *PROJECTS* 08/21/89 10:56:13 From: DALE H. COOK To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 22259 (SEP - FEB85) Steve - Okay - I'll go over it again. I dug into it this morning with a 100 MHz Tek scope and could not see the trigger pulse at pin 2 of the 555 - couldn't catch it with my Beckman logic probe either - looks like there's a problem in that area. I'll let you know how it turns out. It sure is great to be able to ask you questions about this project. I hope you can get CCI up to eight issues a year - by the time two months have passed I'm watching the mail each day for the new issue. Thanks for making it such an interesting and useful magazine. - Dale Msg#:22269 *PROJECTS* 08/21/89 12:34:26 From: STEVE CIARCIA To: DALE H. COOK (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 22262 (SEP - FEB85) We are scheduled for 6 regular and 2 special issues next year as of now. As long as Curt can pump out the editorial, we'll keep mailing them. --Steve Msg#:22472 *PROJECTS* 08/25/89 23:07:19 From: DALE H. COOK To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 22269 (SEP - FEB85) Steve - As long as Curt can pump them out I'll devour them. CCI is the best thing that's happened to micro hardware folks since the 8008. (I never worked with the 4004) - Dale Msg#:22233 *PROJECTS* 08/21/89 03:39:03 From: EDDIE WHITE To: ALL Subj: PULSE ENGR XFORMERS Does anyone know a place I can buy a couple of the Pulse Engr. transformers like Steve used in his switcher article? Pulse will not respond to letters and all I can get on the phone is a dizzy operator that only puts me on hold - evidently she thinks they build cat litter boxes or something. thanks, Eddie Msg#:22265 *PROJECTS* 08/21/89 11:56:16 From: STEVE CIARCIA To: EDDIE WHITE (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 22233 (PULSE ENGR XFORMERS) I guess you'll have to track down one of their distributors. I went to them directly and got a couple samples - 1 week delivery. I went back to them and tried to order 20 more pieces - 24 week delivery. You might be better off asking for samples than trying to order them :-) --Steve Msg#:22398 *PROJECTS* 08/24/89 05:01:43 From: EDDIE WHITE To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 22265 (PULSE ENGR XFORMERS) I got the impression that the operator didn't know where Louisiana was, so didn't know who should get the call. Since I can almost throw a rock to Texas, maybe I should call back and say I'm in Dallas (which isn't too far away.) I guess those are not something you would find on shelves anyway. I'll try again. thanks, Eddie Msg#:22272 *PROJECTS* 08/21/89 14:07:17 From: TERRY L PINOTTI To: ANYONE Subj: INFRARED REMOTE CONTROL I have read the two articles of Feb and Mar 1987, but have a remote controller that does not work as specified. It doesn't have a 40{d carrier. It uses 6 - 16 microsecond pulses. I can't duplicate it and would appreciate any help that anyone may have. Thank you Msg#:22334 *PROJECTS* 08/22/89 14:44:58 From: BILL YOWELL To: SYSOP (Rcvd) Subj: MIDI is there a midi card for the ibm pc that you would recomend or is there a circuit that would be easy to assemble? I have a desire to buy or build something that uses midi. I also need software. any suggestions would be appreciated. Please reply here and I will call again. thanks Msg#:22360 *PROJECTS* 08/23/89 10:12:06 From: CURT FRANKLIN To: BILL YOWELL Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 22334 (MIDI) I'll leap in here... Roland makes a MIDI card that is pretty much the industry standard. It costs a couple of hundred buck, I believe. There are some clones of the Roland board that generally sell for about $50 less than the Roland's list price. Of course, you can sometimes find a good deal on the IBM Music adapter. It has a polyphonic synth on board as well as MIDI in/out. For circuits, check outfits like Sam's books. I think that they have a couple of titles that deal with MIDI. You might also check the ads in Electronic Musician and Keyboard magazines. Curt Franklin Msg#:22385 *PROJECTS* 08/23/89 22:16:58 From: MICHAEL PENDER To: ALL Subj: APPLES Is there ever any articles/projects compatible or dedicated to be compatible with an Apple II bus structure? I am very interested in several of these projects, unforunately they are not apparently compatible with the system I have. And to make them so would require considerable time, and skills I might not have. Msg#:22414 *PROJECTS* 08/24/89 16:26:25 From: STEVE CIARCIA To: MICHAEL PENDER (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 22385 (APPLES) I probably had 2 dozen Apple II based projects in the Volumes of Ciarcia's Circuit Cellar including voice synthesizers and recognition boards. --Steve Msg#:22495 *PROJECTS* 08/27/89 09:49:41 From: TIM MCDONOUGH To: MICHAEL PENDER Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 22385 (APPLES) I don't know how easy they will be to find but there were two books published on interfacing to the Apple II that I'm aware of. You might have a look in your local library. Apple Interfacing by J. Titus, D. Larsen and C. Titus Howard W. Sams and Company Interfacing Projects for the Apple II by Richard G. Hallgren Hope this helps out! Tim McDonough Msg#:22422 *PROJECTS* 08/24/89 21:24:58 From: MATTHEW J. MABERINO To: ALL Subj: 8051 TIMER does anyone know how to program the tmers on the 8051? I'm using timer 0 with mode 1 (16 bit mode). Using a 4.9152mhz crystal, and wanted a 100ms interrupt, i loaded tl0 with 00, and th1 with 60H. Seems its giving about 120ms. It/'s NBD, but I can't figure out why it's not exact.? Crystal is good, guess i'm loading it wrong, anyone understand mode 1? Msg#:22457 *PROJECTS* 08/25/89 14:57:20 From: ED NISLEY To: MATTHEW J. MABERINO (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 22422 (8051 TIMER) You're really loading TL1 and TH1... that TL0 was a slip of the fingers, right? Apart from that, it looks like you've got everything right. At the risk of sounding silly, do you have the timebase calibration knob on your scope turned to the clickstop? Another favorite trick is using MOV TH1,60h instead of MOV TH1,#60h. Depending on what you've got at location 60h, you'll get all manner of strange timings... Msg#:22466 *PROJECTS* 08/25/89 22:18:08 From: MATTHEW J. MABERINO To: ED NISLEY (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 22457 (8051 TIMER) I'm loading the right registers, and boy oh boy, did I have a bout with forgetting the pound signs! But, shouldn't that work? It could be another interrupt holding the works, but I wanted a second opinion on the register loading. Thanks again -- matt Msg#:22571 *PROJECTS* 08/29/89 13:04:20 From: ED NISLEY To: MATTHEW J. MABERINO (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 22466 (8051 TIMER) In a case like this, it's worthwhile to digress into a very short program that does nothing but set up the interrupt handlers and blip an output bit. That way you can get rid of all the "other interrupts" and explore what you're doing wrong very directly. Unless you're doing something very peculiar with the other interrupts, the delays wouldn't be repeatably wrong... so I suspect you've got something else broken. Boil it down to a few lines of code and see what happens. If it's still kaput, upload it & we'll all look under the hood for you. Msg#:22471 *PROJECTS* 08/25/89 22:55:39 From: DALE NASSAR To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: I/O PORT ADDRESS Steve, I am working on a project that is to plug into the IBM slot. I would like to know where you would put (what addresses) the I/O decodes. I am going to try to put the product on the market (my first). The device is an 8-channel logic analyzer that needs 4 I/O decodes. I used $318-$31B for testing the prototype (IBM states these as prototype addresses) I don't know if I should use these in the final design. --Dale Msg#:22557 *PROJECTS* 08/29/89 08:53:33 From: STEVE CIARCIA To: DALE NASSAR (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 22471 (I/O PORT ADDRESS) The guy to ask that kinda question is Ed Nisley these days. Any chance that this could be introduced as a CC INK project? --Steve PS Any interest in marketing it as a kit? Msg#:22576 *PROJECTS* 08/29/89 14:39:52 From: ED NISLEY To: DALE NASSAR (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 22471 (I/O PORT ADDRESS) Condensing everything I know about I/O port address assignments down to a pithy nutshell of advice, I come up with the following: Use jumpers for the address so you can change it and make sure your software can adapt to whatever addresses the board responds to... You're pretty much limited to 200 through 3FF because older PCs didn't decode the other addresses as being on the I/O connectors (they gated only the system board stuff onto the processor bus). I think most modern clones and later PCs allow you to put addresses 100-1FF on the I/O bus, so you may not be passing up too many sales if you use addresses in that range. We stuck the ImageWise/PC at 220 hex after going through a little research... but included jumpers to allow any address between 100 and 2FF. We didn't check the addresses of every possible board; you'll probably find that you can't, either! Msg#:22499 *PROJECTS* 08/27/89 12:05:15 From: MATTHEW J. MABERINO To: ED NISLEY (Rcvd) Subj: 8051 TIMERS Ed, I saw what I did wrong this morning, I forgot to reload the timer regs after the interrupt, how STUPID!!!! Nothing like going crazy after a simple software bug. I'm using both timers, and I thought maybe the other timer was holding it up. Oh well, live & learn. That's 1 mistake I'll never make again. I've got a couple of questions regarding mode 1 (16 bit) of the timers, I'd appreciate if you could answer'em. First, is it a true 16 bit count? that is if you load 0's in both tl0, tl1, does it count to 65535 a bit at a time? Or does tl0 count to 255 then bump tl1 on overflow? I realize it's the same thing in the end, but it's hard to explain, how bout another way, is tl0 a prescaler to tl1? (I just saw my typo's, take tl1 to mean th0, sorry i did it again...) I've got another way to explain my question: does the interrupt freq. = Clk freq. * ((th0*256)+tl0) or int freq = Clk freq / (tl0 * th0)? The multiply in the first eq. should be divide, also I for the / 12, Understand the question? Msg#:22573 *PROJECTS* 08/29/89 14:11:12 From: ED NISLEY To: MATTHEW J. MABERINO (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 22499 (8051 TIMERS) Mmmm... let me explain how it works without recourse to whatever your question really was... In 16-bit timer mode, you load a value into THx and TLx (preferably with TRx off so the timer isn't ticking while you're changing the registers). When you turn TRx back on, TLx starts incrementing. When it hits FF, it rolls over to 00 and THx increases by one count. This continues until both THx and TLx are FF, at which time the next count pushes TLx to 00 and THx to 00 -- and TFx goes on to tell you that the timer has wrapped. If ETx and EA are on, you get an interrupt when TFx goes on. Give or take a bit or two, that's how it plays. Make sense? Msg#:22506 *PROJECTS* 08/27/89 23:06:34 From: TERRY KINCAID To: ALL Subj: SB180 WITH IBM-COMPATIBLE DRIVES Are there messages on the board, or can anyone offer advice,concerning use of commonly-available IBM-compatible floppy drives with the SB180 board?. I thought this was a fairly standard interface spec, but Iguess not. I switched the select jumper for DS 0 and interchanged the motor select lines to correspond to the sb180 manual's spec and have the thing propped up so I can check all the lines,etc. Select light comes on and stays on and motor runs but no STEP happens. I noticed that "track 0" stays low,which may be telling the controller it doesn't need to step. The IBM spec doesn't appear to use a "ready" line so I jumpered J6 as "no ready line". Isn't the FDC supposed to poll the select lines?? This one selects 0 and sits there. Any help? Thanks. Also, I found the bios serial routines on my XT (which I'm using as a terminal) were too slow at 9600 baud. I've written a simple interrupt-driven terminal program which I would be glad to upload if it would be useful to anyone. Thanks again. Terry Kincaid (206) 776-3138. Msg#:22514 *PROJECTS* 08/28/89 09:35:17 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: TERRY KINCAID (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 22506 (SB180 WITH IBM-COMPATIBLE DRIVES) It would help to know what brand and model disk drive you're trying to use. It really does make a difference. It's true that most drives meant for the IBM PC will work on the SB180, but it's usually not as easy as changing just the drive select jumper. All those other jumpers also make a difference. The original IBM PC didn't support drive ready, but the SB180 does. The reason you're not seeing the DS lines getting polled is because you're telling the computer that the drive is ready (by installing JP6), so it sits on drive 0 all the time. We recommend Teac 55B drives since we have the most experience with them. Let me know what you have and we'll see about getting it set up. By the way, make sure the disk is in the drive right side up. Before you say, "of course it is," just make sure. I know it sounds silly, but we actually had a whole system come back for repair, found it worked fine, and sent it back, just to find out the owner kept putting the disk in the drive upside down. Msg#:22620 *PROJECTS* 08/30/89 15:24:22 From: HASAN ALLGAYER To: ED NISLEY (Rcvd) Subj: INFRARED REMOTE LCD INTERFACE Dear Steve, I'm currently attempting a project in which I'm interfacing an 8031 to an OPTREX 16x1 LCD display similar to the one you used in your March '87 BYTE article titled "Infrared Master Controller." I'm using P1.4-P1.7 as a 4-bit data port and P1.3 as the Enable (E) signal to the LCD module due to the LCD's requirement of a minimum of 450ns enable pulse. If possible, I would like to have the portion of your original source code which deals with the LCD interface as this would assist me with the software portion of the enable pulse timing. Thanks for your time. Msg#:22630 *PROJECTS* 08/30/89 23:38:00 From: PETER J HUGHES To: KEN DAVIDSON (Rcvd) Subj: BCC180 CLOCKED SERIAL I/O I'm working on a distributed control system for a teleoperated robot crane. I'm using the HD64180 CSI/O port at 450Kbaud, but it is working slow as molasses for me. Evidently waits to transmit, to make sure the receiver is ready, and other overhead nonsense is tearing me up. What's the best/fastest protocol for a master BCC180 to get data from a slave? Is machine code the answer? I appreciate any comments. Msg#:22652 *PROJECTS* 08/31/89 13:54:34 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: PETER J HUGHES (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 22630 (BCC180 CLOCKED SERIAL I/O) If you're interested in maximum serial throughput, assembly lanuage is the only way to do it. While a compiled BASIC like BASIC-180 is fast, there are limits. Fast serial ports are best supported in assembly language in any case. I've never used the CSI/O port, so can't speak from experience about how well it works. Msg#:22635 *PROJECTS* 08/31/89 01:03:50 From: BOB ACKLEY To: KEN DAVIDSON (Rcvd) Subj: SB180 -> 55B My SB-180 is living happily in an old Heath H-89 (less processor board). It works fine with one Teac-55b drive, but will not work with more than one (it selects ALL of them at once). I note that when the system is powered up but the drive is not selected the select light is dimly lit - it brightens up when drive is selected. This symptom occurs with three different teac drives (all 55b) and a Siemens soft sector drive I swiped out of another Heath H-89. I replaced all of the chips between the controller and the drive cable socket on the SB-180, didn't help. BTW, had the Teac drives checked out at a store service dept and they're OK. Any ideas? Msg#:22655 *PROJECTS* 08/31/89 13:59:24 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: BOB ACKLEY (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 22635 (SB180 -> 55B) The dim LEDs are normal and are a result of the polling function of the disk controller. The problem sounds like you have the MX jumper installed, which causes the drive to be selected no matter which DSx jumpers are installed. To give any further help, I need to know the *complete* model number of the disk drive (from the 55B all the way to the end of the sticker) and which jumpers you have installed now. It sounds like all the hardware is OK, it's just a jumpering problem. Msg#:22683 *PROJECTS* 09/01/89 03:23:22 From: BOB ACKLEY To: KEN DAVIDSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 22655 (SB180 -> 55B) They are Teac FD-55B-01-U models. The part # is 19307080-01. Msg#:22689 *PROJECTS* 09/05/89 10:47:08 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: BOB ACKLEY (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 22683 (SB180 -> 55B) OK. One version of the 55B-01-U should have jumpers HM,SM,UR,PM, and DSx (DS0 or DS1 or ...) installed. The other 55B-01-U should have HM,ST, and DSx installed. If you don't have some of the jumpers listed for the first version of the drive, you probably have the other version so try the second set of jumpers. Teac has put out at least 10 different versions of the 55B that we've encountered, including two totally different drives both labeled 55B-01-U. I seem to remember a problem with one version of the 55B-01-U where the drive was always selected no matter how it was jumpered, so it couldn't be used in a multidrive system. If yours is one of those, then you're out of luck. Msg#:22779 *PROJECTS* 09/08/89 00:31:19 From: BOB ACKLEY To: KEN DAVIDSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 22689 (SB180 -> 55B) After I read your earlier answer I checked the MX jumpers (there aren't any plugs on them) and found that one drive showed a short - even with no jumper on the pins - hmmm. Thanks for the help. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Msg#:22683 *PROJECTS* 09/01/89 03:23:22 From: BOB ACKLEY To: KEN DAVIDSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 22655 (SB180 -> 55B) They are Teac FD-55B-01-U models. The part # is 19307080-01. Msg#:22689 *PROJECTS* 09/05/89 10:47:08 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: BOB ACKLEY (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 22683 (SB180 -> 55B) OK. One version of the 55B-01-U should have jumpers HM,SM,UR,PM, and DSx (DS0 or DS1 or ...) installed. The other 55B-01-U should have HM,ST, and DSx installed. If you don't have some of the jumpers listed for the first version of the drive, you probably have the other version so try the second set of jumpers. Teac has put out at least 10 different versions of the 55B that we've encountered, including two totally different drives both labeled 55B-01-U. I seem to remember a problem with one version of the 55B-01-U where the drive was always selected no matter how it was jumpered, so it couldn't be used in a multidrive system. If yours is one of those, then you're out of luck. Msg#:22779 *PROJECTS* 09/08/89 00:31:19 From: BOB ACKLEY To: KEN DAVIDSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 22689 (SB180 -> 55B) After I read your earlier answer I checked the MX jumpers (there aren't any plugs on them) and found that one drive showed a short - even with no jumper on the pins - hmmm. Thanks for the help. Msg#:22687 *PROJECTS* 09/01/89 10:05:02 From: BOB BUSH To: ALL Subj: CA3306 HELP! Help!! Could anyone inform me as to the correct power supply connections for the rca ca3306 flash converter. I'm working on project that I hope to complete over the labor day weekend and noticed that I didn't have the info. If possible I would like a quick review of the ca3306 operation mostly the relationship between the phase,clk and ce signals. Thanks in advance. --Bob Msg#:22705 *PROJECTS* 09/06/89 00:29:31 From: ED SICARD To: KEN DAVIDSON (Rcvd) Subj: BCC180 KEN, Is there a assembler that can be run on the bcc180. I do not have the disk system. i also checked cpmsig on comp serv for one writen in basic with no luck. Not looking forward to writing one my self. Can you help. Thanks Ed Sicard Reply has been deleted Msg#:22753 *PROJECTS* 09/07/89 12:44:06 From: SCOTT DAYTON To: TERRY L PINOTTI Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 22272 (INFRARED REMOTE CONTROL) I HAVE BEEN WORKING ON MANY DESIGNS FOR REMOTE CONTROLLERS, AND HAVE STUDIED HOW MANY OF THEM WORK. IF YOU COULD EXPLAIN YOUR SITUATION A LITTLE MORE CLEARLY I MIGHT BE ABLE TO HELP. Msg#:22808 *PROJECTS* 09/08/89 16:10:45 From: MARK DAMISH To: ED NISLEY (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 21580 (DDT51) Thanks for the reply Ed. I understand. I didn't mean to imply that the product was usless, just looking for a way to avoid going into a software delay etc... without having to set a break point every time. Starting with +zero+ experiance in 8031 software, i've managed to put together a fax system for displaying Reutors press photos which are transmitted over short-wave from Argentina. 800x600x64 levels of gray. the rtc board samples voltages and transmits the gray level value over the serial lin to a P.C.. I'd never of thought of starting +any+ project without the DDT-51. As a matter of fact, the DDT-51 is what got me interested in the 8031 to start with!! I'd love to see a DDT-HC11 !! I wonder if you can point me towards information regarding C compilers for the 8031 family. ie: Performance for floating point.... size of object code.... Use with 87c51fa without external ram or rom... etc... . All the best of luck, Mark Msg#:22907 *PROJECTS* 09/11/89 10:05:13 From: ED NISLEY To: MARK DAMISH (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 22808 (DDT51) Sounds good to me! I may sound like a broken record on this, but INK can always use articles about projects like that... we're always looking for practical "here's how it's done" information that can only come from people actually doing the work. Drop a note to Curt right away! Despite my long-standing bias against high-level languages on microcontrollers, I'm going to try C for a new project coming up. Evidently, the big slugfest in microcontroller C compilers is between Archimedes and Avocet. Avocet is planning a new release for this fall that, in the fine tradition of all new releases, should stomp the competition flat... of course, Archimedes probably is planning something of the same ilk. What that boils down to is that either of the two is probably going to do a good job for you. I suspect that they're both getting to the point where they'll have to start working on better optimizers than the peephole tweakers that any compiler has to have; what level of optimization they've actually got is beyond me. In either case, I still think either will be a factor of 5-10 slower than assembler, so you'll still have to build some assembler code for the tight loops. Msg#:23129 *PROJECTS* 09/15/89 15:10:55 From: DONALD MEYER To: MARK DAMISH (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 22808 (DDT51) Hi. I've been (and still am) in the midst of a big 8051-family project using compiled 'C'. Currently using Archimedes. It's been solid, but very un-optimized. A "lean and hungry" player is Franklin software. These guys already have tho optomizations that Archimedes is promising for a coupla months down the road. I've got their compiler on order. They have a demo (functional!) if you are interested. I'll let you know how the compiler looks when I get it... ---Don Msg#:24026 *PROJECTS* 10/13/89 12:19:59 From: MARK DAMISH To: DONALD MEYER Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 23129 (DDT51) Thanks for the input on the C compilers. I just ordered the AD2500 and will let you know what I think. The majority of my program is in assembler, but it would be nice to have a high level language for computing statistics, least square fits, and other goodies with double precision numbers. I would never try that with assembler!!. Also, having *most* of a program in C will help when I get around to playing with the HC11 family chips, ie: only the hardware dependant features have to be re-coded, which would be in assembler anyways. Mark Msg#:24028 *PROJECTS* 10/13/89 12:31:31 From: MARK DAMISH To: ED NISLEY (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 22907 (DDT51) Thanks for the info. I just ordered the AD2500 C compiler, and will let all know what I think of it after it arives and i've used it for a Bit. The FAX project needs just 1 thing in order to be complete: A method of tweeking the oscillator frequency on the RTC board. A few cycles of error add up over a 15 minute picture, and can cause the image to be skewed. I partially correct for it on the P.C. side, but I Really need to adjust the crystal. I use the CMOS 8052 and will be using the 87C51FA in the future. Any Ideas short of building a seperate oscillator????? Thanks again for the info, Mark Damish Msg#:24107 *PROJECTS* 10/16/89 11:34:06 From: ED NISLEY To: MARK DAMISH (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 24028 (DDT51) Huh? If you're using an 11.059 MHz crystal, you can get 9600 b/s pretty much spot on; the serial port hardware resynchronizes on each start bit, so there's no accumulation of error. You may be dropping bytes elsewhere, but I doubt it's in the serial interface itself. You've got only one millisecond for each character, so if your code does _anything_ that takes more than that for _any_ character, you'll drop bytes along the way. That's about 500 instructions (more or less), so look at any loops or delays you have in the code to see if you're spending more time than you should with interrupts disabled. Msg#:24303 *PROJECTS* 10/23/89 09:54:33 From: MARK DAMISH To: ED NISLEY (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 24107 (DDT51) Thanks for the reply, but I guess that I didn't explain my problem in enough detail. I use a 11.059200 MHZ xtal, cause it is the right value to generate baud rates AND timer interupts corresponding to the number of X pixels on most graphics screens... 640, 720, 800, 1024 1200... interupts/sec. The problem is that if you want to interupt EXACTLY 800 times/sec , an error in clock frequency (always present), however small, will add up over a long period of time. ie: my casio watch gains about 10 seconds every month, and my fax project gains approx 50-100 ms. every 30 minutes. Being off by 100 ms will cause my picture to scew diagonally on the screen. This has nothing to do with baud rates etc.. I use the timer in auto-reload mode. In comercial systems, there is usually a small variable capacitor to 'trim' the crystal frequency to the EXACT specified value, but with the 80c52 system , there are just 2 27 or 30 pf caps in parallel to the crystal, and you get whatever error (very small, but present) exists in the crystal. I need to bring the crystal as close to EXACTLY 11.059200 MHZ as possable, but I havn't succeded using a trimmer cap. Also, the oscillators for the differant 80x series devices differs depending on whether or not they are CMOS or whatever, so more than one approach is needed for these differant devices. I havn't seen how to trim the xtal freq in any of the literature that I've read (AMD data book), but I hope that I can find out by posting a message here and possably on the Intel board. Thanks for the interest, Mark Damish Msg#:24312 *PROJECTS* 10/23/89 12:47:26 From: ED NISLEY To: MARK DAMISH (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 24303 (DDT51) Mph. I don't quite understand how you get from interrupts to pels without having to figure out the row and column address of the pel. I don't think it's possible to trim the oscillator to the precision you need, because the frequency is not particularly temperature-stable. Regardless of how careful you are, the value will change as the circuit warms up (and those 8031s get HOT, as you've surely noticed!). Can you tinker with your method so that it starts afresh on each line? That way, you could limit the skew to a single line, which would probably not be as noticable. Msg#:24346 *PROJECTS* 10/24/89 12:36:27 From: MARK DAMISH To: ED NISLEY (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 24312 (DDT51) Well, there are no sync signals in the analog tone (data) stream. For the press fax, every line is EXACTLY 1 second long. For other formats the length may be 1/2 or 1/4 second per line. _ Once you've aligned the edge of the image to the edge of the display device (I currently do this manually), the next line starts EXACTLY 1 second later. I have 1 second / # Y-pixels interupts per line to read the A/D converter. _ The edges of a skewed picture look something like this... _ * * * * * * * * _ ... Until is goes off one side of the display device and wraps around to the other. _ I guess that I will build a seperate oscillator, but the Z-80 comercial device that I sometimes use, manages to trim the crystal attached to the C.P.U. _ Precision timing is also required if you (and I want to) use a tape recorder to record the images for later playback. In this type of system one would use a sterio deck; one channel for the audio analog data, and the other for pulses corresponding to the # of Y-pixels (interupt source) on the display device. Most tape units slow down or spead up or both during recording and playback, and this cancels out that effect. But, I'm not at the stage yet. _ !!!!!!!!!!! OOPS !!!!!!!! change Y-pixels to X-Pixels in above !!!!!!!!!! _ Well I've recieved my AD2500 'C' compiler, and have started to work on some old and new projects, so the fax thing will take a back seat for a while. I kinda wish I was doing this for a living. _ Thanks for the response Mark Damish Msg#:24380 *PROJECTS* 10/25/89 09:17:57 From: ED NISLEY To: MARK DAMISH (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 24346 (DDT51) Hmm... it makes more sense now. Isn't is wonderful how something simple in the analog domain is such a pain in the digital world? Makes you long for the good old days! Msg#:24384 *PROJECTS* 10/25/89 12:05:05 From: MARK DAMISH To: ED NISLEY (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 24380 (DDT51) Right... In the old days, you'd have to mount a piece of photographic paper on a drum, and get the drum to spin EXACTLY 1,2 or 4 Rounds per second. Mark Msg#:24414 *PROJECTS* 10/26/89 13:56:33 From: ED NISLEY To: MARK DAMISH (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 24384 (DDT51) And you'd be happy it worked at all, much less gave a snappy picture. Msg#:24443 *PROJECTS* 10/27/89 11:49:53 From: MARK DAMISH To: ED NISLEY (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 24414 (DDT51) Actually, Modulated light (or laser) on photo paper mounted on a rotating drum gives the +highest+ quality picture... ...Infinate gray levels... ...Infinate Y-pixels (actually continious). ... BUT you can't do any Image processing to the picture. Msg#:22817 *PROJECTS* 09/08/89 19:57:52 From: JAMES O'SULLIVAN To: ED NISLEY (Rcvd) Subj: COLOR FRAME GRABBING Hi Ed, To digitize a color television picture, wouldn't it feasible to connect 3 8-bit flash A/D chips to the R, G, and B signals that are generated in a color TV circuit board and are used to drive the amps that drive the R, G, and B guns? It seems like this would be a relatively cheap way to get virtually broadcast quality digitized color images. These signals in the television could be tapped and brought out to a connector installed by the user in the chassis - the user then plugs the digitizer/frame grabber circuit into the television and captures the desired image. Since an existing tuner circuit is being tapped, most of the complex analog circuitry design and fine tuning would be eliminated - a relief to us "digitophiles" :-)... Jim. Msg#:22908 *PROJECTS* 09/11/89 10:10:29 From: ED NISLEY To: JAMES O'SULLIVAN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 22817 (COLOR FRAME GRABBING) Apart from level conversions and so forth, that sounds like a good approach... with a copy of Sam's by your side, the sky's the limit. There are a couple of gotchas, though. The bandwidth allocation between luma and chroma isn't geared for "technical" color -- you get the most detail in luma, with most of the chroma bandwidth along the green axis. Red and blue are really low-res (about 1/2 that of green, if I remember correctly), so the result on a computer display would be pretty ugly. But it does eliminate a lot of ugly demodulation circuitry and (if you start with a decent receiver) probably gives results that are as good as you could do with your own design & construction... all you need is 3 times the memory and you're off and running! Msg#:23005 *PROJECTS* 09/12/89 22:39:18 From: JAMES O'SULLIVAN To: ED NISLEY (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 22908 (COLOR FRAME GRABBING) Thanks for the reply! Jim. Msg#:22819 *PROJECTS* 09/08/89 21:14:40 From: DAVID MERRIMAN To: CCI Subj: SMARTSPOOLER Just got around to finishing off the SmartSpooler experimenters kit that I ordered from you folks (several months ago), and am finding that I have what APPEARS to be a wee bit of a problem..... It LOOKS like the power and ground connections are reversed on the HD6821 interface chip (U24), as well as the 41256's (U11-18). I soldered the sockets for all of these per the silkscreen, but am finding that the power and ground connections are, effectively, reversed- by that, I mean that using the little notch at the end of the socket, with pin 1 nominally at the first counter-clockwise position, that my power and ground pins are at the opposite corners from where they should be. It's as though whoever laid out the board lost track of which end was which; or maybe laid the actual chip connections 180 out of phase. The rest of the IC's are getting power & ground at the right pins; it's just the LED driver and the memory chips that seem to be a little "off". As an additional question, would there be any problem if I used +/- 15 volts, instead of +/- 12 for the RS-232 chips? I can regulate down from the spiffy little +/-15 supply that I have, but if I can save the cost of a couple of regulators....... Thanks (in advance). Message here, or email (I'm on the official Email registry, if that's any help). Dave M. Msg#:22896 *PROJECTS* 09/11/89 04:11:55 From: FRANK KUECHMANN To: DAVID MERRIMAN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 22819 (SMARTSPOOLER) Do you really think boards with the wrong power/ground connections would get kitted and shipped? The board connections are correct. While, in general, power and ground are on diagonally oposite corners, e.g. on a 16 pin DIP IC, pin 16 is often power, pin 8 often ground -- but that's merely a common convention, not a fixed immutable rule. On a 6821 PIA, pin 1 is ground, pin 20 is +5v; unused port pins, e.g. pin 40 [CA1] may also be grounded if not used otherwise. On the 41256 RAM, pin 16 is ground, pin 8 is +5v. On your other question, +-15 v instead of +-12 v meets RS232C specs. Msg#:22926 *PROJECTS* 09/11/89 11:04:23 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: DAVID MERRIMAN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 22819 (SMARTSPOOLER) I think part of the confusion is that the power table in the very first version of the manual had power and ground swapped on the RAM and 6821 chips. An errata sheet was published within a week after the manual was printed and should have been included with your kit. The PC boards have always been correct. Msg#:22987 *PROJECTS* 09/12/89 10:35:19 From: STEVE CIARCIA To: DAVID MERRIMAN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 22819 (SMARTSPOOLER) Come on! You know CCI by now. We don't ship anything that doesn't work as described. Unfortunately, sometimes the documentation can lag the improvements in the hardware and that seems to be what happened to you. --Steve Msg#:23496 *PROJECTS* 09/24/89 21:53:48 From: DAVID MERRIMAN To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 22987 (SMARTSPOOLER) I kinda figured it was something like that (note, please, that my message DID leave ample room for my own error!). So what do we do now? Thanks. <]Dave[> Msg#:23523 *PROJECTS* 09/25/89 14:41:39 From: STEVE CIARCIA To: DAVID MERRIMAN Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 23496 (SMARTSPOOLER) Next you plug in the chips and try it. If you can't get it to work then you send it to us and we'll make it work for you. --Steve Msg#:22833 *PROJECTS* 09/09/89 02:04:14 From: MARK WENNING To: STEPHAN COOK (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 17285 (ELECTRONIC COMPASS) Did you ever get the schematics for the Electronic Compass from Ed Wood? Is it possible you could send me a copy? I'll be glad to send copying and postage. My present address is Mark Wenning 2000 Cedar Bend Dr. }i #10302 Austin, TX 78758 Much appreciated. Msg#:22889 *PROJECTS* 09/11/89 01:05:55 From: STEPHAN COOK To: MARK WENNING (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 22833 (ELECTRONIC COMPASS) Mark, I'm sorry but never did get those schematics. To add to that I completely forgot about them and didn't get back to Mr. Wood. However, you might be interested in the next issue of Radio Electronics. I was skimming over the preview of next months issue yesterday and they're planning to have a project dealing with an electronic compass. Hope you have luck with your project. Stephan Cook Msg#:22849 *PROJECTS* 09/09/89 12:19:01 From: CHARLES TAFT To: ALL Subj: SB180FX AND SCSI I have an SB180FX and am seriously considering adding an SCSI drive. I have the SCSI chip in my FX, I assume I would need a power supply of how much power??, a cable from FX to SCSI, and a box to put the SCSI in. Then, using utilities from XBIOS, I format the rascal and I am off and running. Right? At least in theory? So, what hardware parts am I missing? Or, what other huge mouse-traps of the Murphey variety am I missing? As you can readly guess, I am not a hacker type, just one who can follow directions. Advice on which kind of drive, 20 meg, would be welcomed. Msg#:22933 *PROJECTS* 09/11/89 11:20:48 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: CHARLES TAFT (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 22849 (SB180FX AND SCSI) You're best bet for a 20M drive is a Seagate ST225N. I don't know what its power requirements are, but you'll need to find out to make sure the power supply can handle it. The SB180FX doesn't need any additional power. The only other stuff you'll need are a 50-pin cable from the FX to the drive and a power cable for the drive. Since you have XBIOS, you're all set. Msg#:22927 *PROJECTS* 09/11/89 11:05:38 From: HASAN ALLGAYER To: ALL Subj: PROGRAMMING '128A ON CCSEP I'm having problems programming 27128A (12.5V) EPROM's with my Circuit Cellar Serial Eprom Programmer, even though I have no problems with 27128 (21V). I have checked the hardware and it's working as designed. In the Intel literature it states that pin 28 (Vcc) should be driven at 6V when programming '128A proms, yet the CCSEP sets this pin to 5V (for regular speed programming). Does anyone have any ideas? Msg#:22996 *PROJECTS* 09/12/89 12:33:13 From: JEFF BACHIOCHI To: HASAN ALLGAYER (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 22927 (PROGRAMMING '128A ON CCSEP) Hasan, The introduction of new technology always seems to play havoc with compatility. The standard programming algorithm calls for a VCC of 5V and a programming pulse of 50 milli-seconds. The newer, inteligent programming, requires a VCC of 6V and a programming pulse of 1 milli-second. The newest, quick programming algorithm, requires a VCC of 6.25V with a pulse of only 100 micro-seconds. The SEP will handle both standard and inteligent programming algorithms. Any device can be programmed by an older algorithm but older devices can not be programmed by newer algorithms. You should be using at least V1.6 of the SEP software in EPROM. jeff Msg#:22997 *PROJECTS* 09/12/89 15:21:11 From: HASAN ALLGAYER To: JEFF BACHIOCHI (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 22996 (PROGRAMMING '128A ON CCSEP) Jeff, Thanks for your response. I am currently using version 2.0 of the SEP firmware. The new Intel documentation (Memory Components Handbook) makes no mention of the 5V (Vcc) programming algorithm for '128A proms. I have tried several different '128A proms with both the standard and fast (Vcc=6V) algorithms with no success. Also, I have checked for the correct voltages at pin #1 (Vpp=12.5V) and pin #28 (Vcc=5V std. & Vcc= 6V fast) and they both checkout; the other signals must be correct for the '128 proms to work. Are there any other differences between these two types of proms besides their programming voltages? I'm assuming that the pulse timing for Vcc is totaly controlled by the 8052, and would not be affected by external components. Yet both types of proms should not work if this timing is incorrect. I forgot to mention that my SEP works just fine for 27256 proms using the standard algorithm. Thanks again for your time, ----- Hasan. Msg#:23016 *PROJECTS* 09/13/89 08:59:48 From: JEFF BACHIOCHI To: HASAN ALLGAYER (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 22997 (PROGRAMMING '128A ON CCSEP) Hasan, Please don't take this the wrong way but many casual users mistake a faulty EPROM as good and blame the programmer. A bad EPROM will look erased to the programmer. Except for measuring abnormal current flow in VCC they can not be detected easily. Some programmers can determine this unfortunately the SEP can't. I think you'll find the 128 and 128A to be the same except where you've indicated. Can you verify these devices good on some other programmer? (I know, why would you have another one?) If you wish you may send one to me in-care-of Micromint and I'll test it for you! jeff Msg#:22941 *PROJECTS* 09/11/89 12:07:57 From: HASAN ALLGAYER To: ALL Subj: OPTREX LCD INTERFACING TO 8031 Does anyone have any experience interfacing Optrex LCD's to 8031's I/O ports. I'm interested in the initialization timing when using a 4-bit interface port and what delays are necessary between character data transmision to avoid writing to the LCD module when it's busy. Msg#:23093 *PROJECTS* 09/14/89 15:03:15 From: ED NISLEY To: HASAN ALLGAYER (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 22941 (OPTREX LCD INTERFACING TO 8031) Rule of thumb: allow 8 milliseconds between each byte during the reset sequence and it'll work. You don't need to delay between nibbles, but it won't do any harm. Once it's running, use that delay for clearing the LCD and homing the cursor, and 100 us between ordinary character bytes. You have read my column in INK #8, right? Download the code for that issue and take a look at the initialization code. I think I put the actual timings in the comments, but they depend on the LCD clock frequency (which you have no control over). Msg#:23124 *PROJECTS* 09/15/89 11:12:45 From: HASAN ALLGAYER To: ED NISLEY (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 23093 (OPTREX LCD INTERFACING TO 8031) Ed, Thanks a lot for the info, your article was the inspiration for the project I'm currently attempting. Keep up the good work! ----- Hasan Msg#:23373 *PROJECTS* 09/21/89 14:04:30 From: ED NISLEY To: HASAN ALLGAYER (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 23124 (OPTREX LCD INTERFACING TO 8031) Tah dum! Tell us how it all comes out... Msg#:23209 *PROJECTS* 09/17/89 19:04:47 From: DAVID M. ROBERTS To: ANYONE Subj: DDT-51 CONTROLLER DEVELOPER I'm trying to find the software and doccumentation for the project Steve Ciarcia presented in Byte in Aug and Sept 1988 and I am very interested in any other developments in this area. If you wish, call me collect at (407)272-3772. Thanks! Msg#:23229 *PROJECTS* 09/18/89 09:56:40 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: DAVID M. ROBERTS Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 23209 (DDT-51 CONTROLLER DEVELOPER) Just go over to the iles area, select ownload, then area 2. The DDT-51 software and other information is in the list for that area. Msg#:23252 *PROJECTS* 09/19/89 08:23:27 From: JOSEPH FREEMAN To: ED NISLEY (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 21443 (SYNCHRONOUS IMAGEWISE?) It turns out, that both serial ports (asynch and sync) come out of the 56000 DSP to the same connector. But, I have figured out how fast the ImageWise can go, and it isn't quite fast enough to do any motion video (15fps). 256*244*15 = 936960 bps and 128*122*15 = 234240. I think I need either a backplane card for my NeXT or a SCSI based grabber. Thanks for the help, though. Msg#:23379 *PROJECTS* 09/21/89 14:30:27 From: ED NISLEY To: JOSEPH FREEMAN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 23252 (SYNCHRONOUS IMAGEWISE?) Yup. Sounds like it'd be right on the hairy edge... and that's a bad way to start a design! Msg#:23296 *PROJECTS* 09/19/89 21:02:09 From: CHRIS GOBEIL To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: SERIAL EPROM BURNER HELP! Is your eprom burner from BYTE oct 86, still availible in kit form? Also I am running a NABU 1600 8086 4 terminal computer under Qnx, is the micro section of the remote program availible in c code? Last but not least I have a few of your books, they are great! But, WHY are you no longer in BYTE, and where can I read your articles? signed DESPERATELY IN NEED OF A PROJECT! Msg#:23377 *PROJECTS* 09/21/89 14:23:45 From: STEVE CIARCIA To: CHRIS GOBEIL (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 23296 (SERIAL EPROM BURNER) Well, you did half of it right. You found me on my BBS but you didn't bother to read the "credits". We now have our own magazine called Circuit Cellar INK. See the main menu for details or subscribing. Do a scan on the subject BYTE and you'll find out why I am no longer there. Finally, the CCSEP is alive and well and available from CCI in kit. Call 203-875-2751 for details. --Steve Msg#:23476 *PROJECTS* 09/24/89 00:01:59 From: CHRIS GOBEIL To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 23377 (SERIAL EPROM BURNER) Thanks for the info. CHRIS Msg#:23347 *PROJECTS* 09/20/89 20:55:13 From: BOB MAHONEY To: CHRIS GOBEIL (Rcvd) Subj: QNX Chris, Is that the Qnx produced by quantum Software Systems Ltd ? If so, how do you like it ? Is truly Unix like and can it use extended memory on 80286 systems ? Also, do you know what memory model(s) their c compiler supports ? Thanks. Bob Msg#:23348 *PROJECTS* 09/20/89 21:51:30 From: CHRIS GOBEIL To: BOB MAHONEY (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 23347 (QNX) Qnx is as far as I know availible on 88 86 286 and probably on 386 cpus. It is from Quantum Software Systems just across Ottawa from me. I have no direct knowledge of Unix, so I can't compare them. It is, however, a great OS, if you like spending lot's of money on prepared software or like to develop your own. The system has four parts: task admin, file sys admin, device admin, and an idle admin. Others like lans, timers, and piping also have administrators. Mine is version 2.0 for the 86 cpu, and has been installed in rom. Even still I can run 24 tasks with four terminals. There is a limit to what kind of terminals one can use, but terminal handlers aren't hard. Stuff like print spoolers are a thing of the past, just put the job in the backround. The C compiler is a command line package for me, newer ones may have a GUI but I wouldn't know. The compiler is fairly standard, but with message passing for tasks, limited signaling, and also it supports message blocking. Here in Canada I heard a price of $750 for a single user licence, with multiple licences 20% or so more for each cpu. Page 69 of september BYTE mag has an ad. 150 tasks per cpu ain't bad for a cheezy 16 Mhz 286. If you can try it do. CHRIS Msg#:23402 *PROJECTS* 09/21/89 19:24:06 From: BOB MAHONEY To: CHRIS GOBEIL (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 23348 (QNX) Chris, Thanks for the reply. I found the add and requested their demo disk, so I'll hopefully get an idea as to how unix-like it is. Bob Msg#:23363 *PROJECTS* 09/21/89 08:31:56 From: JOEY PARKER To: JEFF BACHIOCHI (Rcvd) Subj: TERM-MITE BOARD I have a few questions about the Term-Mite ST-1000 board available thru MicroMint. I would like to be able to record the output of the board on a VCR, but the signal is somewhat non-standard with respect to horizontal and vertical sync timing. I have a copy of the source code in the "Ashley" cross-assembler format. My questions are: 1) It appears possible to make simple changes to the Timing Chain Registers to get standard H- & V-sync timing. Is this true? 2) Where can I get a copy of the cross-assembler? BBS's?? 3) Can I use a 2764 EPROM instead of the current 2732? Do I have to change anything on the board? Thanks for any help! Msg#:23421 *PROJECTS* 09/22/89 09:09:15 From: JEFF BACHIOCHI To: JOEY PARKER (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 23363 (TERM-MITE BOARD) Joey, Bob Harbrecht, who for a time worked at National, wrote the code for the ST-1000. He seems to feel that the H and V timings are as close as you can come within the restraints of the NS405. The best place to get Allen Ashley's cross assembler is from him. Try (818)-793-5748. If you check JP3 you will notice there is a selection for 2k or 4k/8k. A 28 pin socket is provided for the larger 28 pin 2764. jeff Msg#:23430 *PROJECTS* 09/22/89 13:28:40 From: JOEY PARKER To: JEFF BACHIOCHI (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 23421 (TERM-MITE BOARD) Thanks for the prompt reply. I think I'll try a few things and if I have any luck I'll let you know. Msg#:23411 *PROJECTS* 09/22/89 00:36:57 From: DONALD STEPHENS To: KEN DAVIDSON (Rcvd) Subj: COMPUTER IR CONTROL Ken: A while back I saw a reference to a BYTE article, written by Steve, showing how an interface could be made to teach a PC IR commands, and allowing the PC to run any audio or video equiptment that had an IR remote control. I looked for the string but I'm still unsure of this board and how to find what I'm looking for...I think you said the article was in the Nov '87 or '78 issue. Can you remember? Thanks; Don Msg#:23423 *PROJECTS* 09/22/89 09:11:33 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: DONALD STEPHENS (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 23411 (COMPUTER IR CONTROL) The article was in the March '87 issue of BYTE and was about the IR Master Controller. Msg#:23429 *PROJECTS* 09/22/89 10:19:01 From: JEFF BACHIOCHI To: DONALD STEPHENS (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 23411 (COMPUTER IR CONTROL) Donald, Leave a message for Bill Curlew on this boaard. He has built a gizmo like this and uses it for presentations. I believe Bill has submitted an article to INK. PS Bill's a good guy, even if he does work for an insurance company :-) jeff Msg#:23436 *PROJECTS* 09/22/89 18:53:15 From: BRUCE WEBB To: ALL Subj: WANTED: USED DDT-51 I am interested in buying a used (working or not) DDT-51 kit. If you are looking for a place to unload yours, leave me a message. --Bruce Msg#:23461 *PROJECTS* 09/23/89 16:29:27 From: MANUEL BRUGAT To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: BUILD A 80286 SYSTEM I AM TRYING TO BUILD AN AT 80286 SYSTEM FROM PARTS THAT ARE DEFECTIVE FROM REPAIR SHOPS, BUT IT IS VERY DIFFICULT TO GET THEM. I WOULD LIKE TO HAVE SOME INFORMATION OF WHERE I CAN GET SUCH PARTS. I AM TRYING TO GET COSTS AS LOW AS POSSIBLE I CANNOT AFFORD TO SPEND A FORTUNE IN MAKING SUCH ASYSTEM. S Msg#:23518 *PROJECTS* 09/25/89 13:46:53 From: ED NISLEY To: MANUEL BRUGAT Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 23461 (BUILD A 80286 SYSTEM) You mean you're really trying to build a system from functional parts salvaged from dead boards, right? You really don't want to start out with defective parts! The reason you don't see many dead boards is that they get returned to the manufacturers, who generally crush 'em and landfill the results. The reason they don't salvage the parts is that it's not cost-effective to test dead boards to find the defective part. There are good reasons to not have defective boards floating around in the surplus market (like the boards come back again and again!) so destroying the boards makes good economic sense. Presuming you can find dead boards, the problem _you're_ going to run into is debugging your system. Because you can't tell which parts are good just by looking (if you can, there are companies who can use you right away!), your system will be composed of a mix of good parts and junk. I haven't the slightest idea how you'd figure out why it didn't work, as most systems don't the first time, because the errors can be in your design, your wiring, your parts, or your testing! Sometimes the cheapest route is not the least expensive... Msg#:23486 *PROJECTS* 09/24/89 13:44:57 From: BILL YOWELL To: CURT FRANKLIN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 22360 (MIDI) Thank you, Curt I have prism secquencer s/w and a $70 dollar midi board now I have not done much with it yet. Appreciate the input! Bill, Msg#:23635 *PROJECTS* 09/29/89 00:34:18 From: JOSEPH HAMMER To: BILL YOWELL (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 22334 (MIDI) Check the Music Quest Roland compatable 401 card line..... While I have no personal gain by this recommendation, it sure looks like a darn good little card line. They have a software tool kit which is a must buy item if your going to really do midi work....I have a copy, well worth it..... Their BBS is up and running at (214)-881-7311. Their day/voice number is (214)-881-7408. Their line runs from $120 to $300, but all cards are MPU-401 able, however the higher cost card are for the diehard professionals who need bells and whistles like SMPTE code generation to get things happening... I'm into that level and will be placing an order in approximately a month, after I get my second clone up and running..... Anyw, good luck with your choice. Msg#:23506 *PROJECTS* 09/25/89 09:46:54 From: PAUL KINDELL To: ALL Subj: DDT-51 Can someone upload the hex file to blink the led on the DDT-51 test board, My compiler does not like the source code and I really dont want to spend alot of time reworking it. Thanks Paul Msg#:23516 *PROJECTS* 09/25/89 13:24:35 From: ED NISLEY To: PAUL KINDELL (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 23506 (DDT-51) Believe it or not, we're ahead of you on this one! Take a look in Files #2; BLINKY.HEX is under the original DDT-51 project in the BYTE section. The source is there, as well, if you need the machine-readable version we left off the first few DDT-51 diskettes... Msg#:23553 *PROJECTS* 09/26/89 12:48:07 From: PAUL KINDELL To: ED NISLEY (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 23516 (DDT-51) Thanks alot Paul! Msg#:24300 *PROJECTS* 10/23/89 06:22:00 From: PAUL KINDELL To: PAUL KINDELL (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 23553 (DDT-51) ED. I just found my problem with the DDT-51, Geat minds think alike I guess. I had swaped the upper with the lower nibble on IC 5 and 6 going to the ribbon cable. What is sad is I ohmed that board out many times but never with a target board hanging off the clip. The problem was between IC 5, 6 and the ribbon cables connector. I now of course recommend anyone debugging to ohm from the DDT to a target board because this checks the whole ball of wax. Thanks again for your help. Paul. Msg#:24317 *PROJECTS* 10/23/89 13:29:32 From: ED NISLEY To: PAUL KINDELL (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 24300 (DDT-51) Isn't it amazing how many obscure problems can be found with an ohmmeter or test lamp? Now you can start doing the interesting stuff! Msg#:23512 *PROJECTS* 09/25/89 12:55:44 From: MICHAEL LOKUTA To: BILL CURLEW Subj: 8031 RTOS bill, Do you have any info on real time OS kernals for the 8031? It seems I effectively write one for each 8031 project I do. If I could buy one it would save alot of time. One which interfaces with a HLL like 'Archimedes' 8051 'C' compiler would be even nicer yet! Mike Msg#:23706 *PROJECTS* 10/03/89 00:59:00 From: CRAIG FORCE To: SYSOP (Rcvd) Subj: BASIC52 HOWDY I just started using the B-52 MCU and I have a Question that I hoped I could get an answer to. How does a person download an machine code program to the B-52 when it is in the BASIC mode. I believe that it would be possible to enter the code thru data statements into RAM but I havent had much success. I would like to CALL a machine code routine and then return to my BASIC program. When I execute the CALL statement there is obviously no machine code to call if I havent installed it. >CF< Msg#:23721 *PROJECTS* 10/03/89 09:32:30 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: CRAIG FORCE (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 23706 (BASIC52) Well, I think the basic problem is that you haven't instructed the bombardier as to the proper time to open the bay doors. :-) If you're using an 8052 processor running BASIC-52, then you are correct. When all you have is BASIC, the only way to get machine language into memory (short of plugging in an EPROM that already contains it) is to use XBY statements to poke the data into memory. Micromint sells a utility EPROM for the BCC52 (called ROM A&B) that includes a command that lets you transfer Intel hex code into memory so you can easily mix BASIC and machine language. Msg#:23725 *PROJECTS* 10/03/89 09:41:34 From: JEFF BACHIOCHI To: CRAIG FORCE (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 23706 (BASIC52) Craig, Realize you must use the combined DATA/PROGRAM space unless your code machine code is programmed into an EPROM. If using a combined space, DATA statements within the BASIC code can be used to XBY the code into protected RAM (above MTOP) at a minimum address of 2000H. I like to use a second RAM chip for this located at 4000H. The BASIC interpreter uses from 0-1FFFH so calls to below 2000H are not going to get to your code located there. If you are using the utilities ROM A&B, you have HEXS and HEXL as extensions to the BASIC command set. DATA statements are a good way to keep everything simple, since everything is saved with the PROG command. jeff Msg#:23746 *PROJECTS* 10/03/89 23:48:48 From: JOE FIELD To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: 8051 ASSEMBLY Trying to assemble KERNEL.ASM for DDT51 has been a flop. I first tried PS51A14. It unfortunately requires a different structure than is present in KERNEL. To avoid retyping a lot of KERNEL, I tried TASM22. This also produced several hundred errors, mostly complaints about no finding labels. Where am I going wrong? What assembler was KERNEL written for? Thanks. Msg#:23752 *PROJECTS* 10/04/89 08:51:35 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: JOE FIELD (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 23746 (8051 ASSEMBLY) KERNEL was written for the Avocet 8051 cross-assembler. There is a version of KERNEL in the same file area as the original that was modified to be assembled with the PseudoSam assembler. Try that version before you waste any more time. Msg#:23769 *PROJECTS* 10/04/89 22:09:42 From: JOE FIELD To: KEN DAVIDSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 23752 (8051 ASSEMBLY) Thanks for the reply. I will use that version. My objective was to learn the 8051 instruction set and any errors are hard to figure out the first time around. Msg#:23792 *PROJECTS* 10/05/89 15:30:06 From: ED NISLEY To: JOE FIELD (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 23746 (8051 ASSEMBLY) That's the wonderful thing about computers: you have to get everything exactly right the first time to get any results at all. The error messages, of course, have nothing to do with the real cause of the problem, because whatever went wrong "can't possibly happen" at all. Msg#:23787 *PROJECTS* 10/05/89 10:55:59 From: VERNON RIDDER To: KEN DAVIDSON (Rcvd) Subj: BCC180 - TIMER1 I have a ROM based BCC180 and have been trying to use the Timer1 interrupt to call a Task. I've had some success in that I can write a program that works, but if you make a trival change in it - say add a blank comment line or change the count value in a delaying For Next loop - then it doesn't work anymore! Or it works for a few interrupts and then stops generating the interrupts. You might get 5 interrupts one time you run it, 3 the next, then 7 etc. Voodoo someplace! This is the method I use: 1- point the Timer1 interrupt vector (at 00E6) to D000 2- use an assembly language routine (at D000) to reset the Timer1 interrupt flag and also disable Timer 0 & 1 interrupts and down counting. Then jump to the Task 1 entry address (at 8012 for RAM compiled code or 0190 for EPROM). 3- in the lead Task setup Timer1 by: loading the data and reload registers, reseting the interrupt flag, enabling its interrupt and down counting by OUT $10, $33 (which also leaves Timer0 enabled) 4- in Task 1 do a INTOFF, then do something to tell you've been there, then restart Timer1 (OUT $10, $22), CANCEL 1 and EXIT. I believe Timer0 and interrupts are restarted by the EXIT. From what I can tell, things are wording fine up to the point where it enters Task 1. I can get assembly programs to run perfectly and end them with a RETI. Also, when the program fails and Task 1 stops being called, INP($10) yields a 0 which was put there by the assembly program. My best guess is that there's another interrupt firing someplace or that the multitasking system does something strange that I don't know about. This is the assembly code: .org h'd000 ; start assembly at d000 DI ; disable interrupts PUSH AF PUSH BC LD BC, H'0010 ; RESET TIMER1 INTERRUPT FLAG IN A, (C) ; LD BC, H'0014 ; IN A, (C) ; LD BC, H'0010 ; DISABLE TIMER 0 & 1 INTERRUPT & DOWN COUNT ENABLE LD A, H'00 ; OUT (C), A ; POP BC POP AF JP H'8012 ; JUMP TO TASK 1 .END Msg#:23874 *PROJECTS* 10/09/89 09:02:06 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: VERNON RIDDER (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 23787 (BCC180 - TIMER1) With this type of problem, it's almost impossible to diagnose with a "this is mostly how it's written and how it works" type of description. Some little detail that you think makes no difference might actually be a key to the problem. I have to see the whole thing to be of any help; both BASIC and assembly lanuage. You can either upload it to me here (please place it in a file and do a binary transfer as opposed to uploading it as a message) or you can fax me a copy at (203) 872-2204. Msg#:23920 *PROJECTS* 10/10/89 00:52:37 From: TERRY L RUPPE To: KEN DAVIDSON (Rcvd) Subj: BCC 180 I've got a BCC 180 system running the BASIC 180 ROM. I'm running into problems trying to do BS while in windowing. Most of the time it doesn't work and if it does its erradic. The BS works fine when not in windowing. Has anyone else seen this or know what I might be doing wrong. I'm doing a PRINT CHR$(8); on a LS-ADM 3A Dumb Terminal. Also would like to find a simple line editor for text stored in RAM on BCC180. must be runable on ROM'd system. Any chance of adapting the editor in BASIC 180 ? Any help would be GREATLY appreciated. I'm about ready to pull my hair out. THANKS, Terry Ruppe Reply has been deleted Msg#:23962 *PROJECTS* 10/11/89 11:07:39 From: DIETER VOEGTLI To: `0!=ARRTLYZ4LBBY1/NR^#ULB%AG)^"ETDZU4Y_Q Subj: FA Mike, the fax from you has one baad readable page: it is page 35 of Radio-Electronics with the schematic diagram on it. All I can see is black at the upper middle page. Can you resend it? I've got some bad news for you: The relay doesn't get manu- factured anymore as it is over 12 years old. Perhaps there is a distributor which has it on stock? Try to contact SIEMENS Components , Inc. Special Products Division 186 Wood Avenue South Iselin, NJ 08830 Phone: (201) 321-3400, Tlx: 844491 sie isln a Or the head office: Munich, Fax:4989-4144-2689, Tlx:52108-0 Until now, I couldn't find someone at Societe Geneve who even knows this Sperry machine. I'll keep on trying ! Dieter Reply has been deleted Msg#:24017 *PROJECTS* 10/13/89 08:12:25 From: PAUL KINDELL To: ED NISLEY (Rcvd) Subj: DDT51 Hey ED. I have found some time to get back to working on my DDT51 and I am having a few problems. First I hand wired my board and seem to have all diagnostics running ok. I also built the small suggested 8031 board to blink the Led. My ribbon cable is short, has gorounds, and does not run power to the board. Kernel loads Ok but when I hit go I get the "The 8031 did not start in time" message, and the F10 gets me the message that the dump may be garbage do to the fact that the 8031 didnt pass the data to the global ram I guess. My Led blinky board does work, I used my old faithful P1 count test program to test it out. Any ideas? Paul. Msg#:24106 *PROJECTS* 10/16/89 11:30:18 From: ED NISLEY To: PAUL KINDELL (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 24017 (DDT51) Mmph. Another tough one... The diagnostic code doesn't check out the interrupt and acknowledge (INT1 and T1) lines, so you'll have to do that by hand. If you've got a scope, use the diags to wiggle the control lines and make sure they're connected. The diags can't detect transposed data or address lines because the test data can't be read without using the same (scrambled) lines. Use the diags to make sure all your lines go to the right spot; I fumbled this one once and it took a long time to convince myself that the wires were wrong... after all, I did use a ribbon cable! The 8051 reset circuit usually has a 10 uF cap between the RESET pin and +5 V, which the DDT-51 circuitry can't drag down fast enough. Make sure your logic _doesn't_ have that cap! Try those out and see what happens. It might be worthwhile to go back through the stored messages to see what we did to get everyone else on the air; I suspect you've got one or two of the "ten standard goofs" rather than something really bizarre... Msg#:24116 *PROJECTS* 10/16/89 15:25:18 From: PAUL KINDELL To: ED NISLEY (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 24106 (DDT51) YES, I AGREE, I HAVE FOUND A .1 BYPASS ACROSS A DATA LINE RATHER THAN TO VCC, THATS A TOUGH ONE TO FIND! I HAVE OHMED OUT THE BOARD AND COLORED THE PRINTS AS I WENT BUT I WILL CHECK THAT AGAIN. I DO HAVE A SCOPE AND WILL CHECK THOSE LINES. THANKS, MORE LATER PAUL Msg#:24296 *PROJECTS* 10/23/89 04:12:23 From: ALAIN CAILLARD To: ALL Subj: RGBI TO NTSC does anyone tried to modify this project to encode from RGBI to PAL instead of NTSC. I am living in europe and PAL if far more common than NTSC . THANKS Msg#:24484 *PROJECTS* 10/28/89 22:18:09 From: KEN MUNKHOLM To: JEFF BACHIOCHI (Rcvd) Subj: CCSEP Ken, The only 150 uh choke that I can find for this project is one that is about the size of a 1/4 watt resistor! (In Canada) I assume that this is not the one due to the size of the mounting holes. If I use this one, it will probably fry. Won't it? ken Msg#:24546 *PROJECTS* 10/31/89 08:36:48 From: JEFF BACHIOCHI To: KEN MUNKHOLM (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 24484 (CCSEP) Ken, The object is to get rid of the switching frequencies ( and harmonics), but still pass enough current for your circuit. The peak currents will generate heat as they pass through the choke. If the wire size is too small (the resistance to high) a large drop will cause the choke to heat up and POOF. The choke choosen for the SEP is made from (aprox) 20 ga enameled copper wire wound around a 3/8 (dia) x 1.25 inch ferrite rod. Three layers of winding are held in place by a piece of shink tubing and the whole thing dipped in varnish. CCI was offering these for $8.00 when the kit was first introduced. Please contact them for $ and availability! jeff Msg#:24551 *PROJECTS* 10/31/89 09:33:32 From: KEN MUNKHOLM To: JEFF BACHIOCHI (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 24546 (CCSEP) Thanks Jeff. Msg#:24502 *PROJECTS* 10/29/89 15:50:45 From: CLAUDE PIO To: SYSOP (Rcvd) Subj: IMAGE WISE VIDEO DIGITIZER Could you let me know if the kit for the Digitizer is available, and how I can order one. I live in Toronto Ontario. Msg#:24506 *PROJECTS* 10/29/89 20:08:01 From: TRACEY COLLIER To: CLAUDE PIO Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 24502 (IMAGE WISE VIDEO DIGITIZER) The DT-01 full kit, experimenter's kit, and Case and Power supply are available from CCI. The Assembled and Tested version of the digitizer is available from Micromint. See the Catalog and ordering information from the Main menu of the BBS. TJC Msg#:24515 *PROJECTS* 10/30/89 10:21:43 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: CLAUDE PIO Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 24502 (IMAGE WISE VIDEO DIGITIZER) Tracey is correct. Kits are available from CCI at (203) 875-2751 and assembled and packaged units are available from Micromint at (203) 871-6170. Msg#:24539 *PROJECTS* 10/30/89 23:51:10 From: KUO HUANG To: ALL Subj: IMAGEWISE I'm also trying to build the ImageWise digitizing board from the articles in the back issues of BYTE. However, the schematics for it seem to be incomplete. The main problem I'm having with it is that the schematics metion something about capacitors C15 - C38 being bypass capacitors. I don't see them anywhere on the schematics or in the article. Are they the same thing as decoupling capacitors between the supply and ground pins of each IC? If so, I only counted 20 or so chips in the photo of the completed board, but there are 3 or four extra caps. Where do they go? Also, is the Run Length Encoding scheme used on the digitizer compatible with the RLE format for transfering graphics files from BBSs? I have a program that will convert RLE graphics to my computer's display format, so if they're compatible, I could probably just hook up the digitizer to the modem port, and download in ASCII. What do you all think about my scheme? Kuo Huang Msg#:24549 *PROJECTS* 10/31/89 08:59:03 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: KUO HUANG (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 24539 (IMAGEWISE) Bypass caps are the same as decoupling caps. They simply go between power and ground on each chip. The only other caps that might not appear in the schematic are filter caps on the power supply where it enters the board. RLE is RLE no matter how you look at it. But the ImageWise pictures contain start-of-frame and start-of-line control characters that the RLE format you're thinking of probably doesn't handle. It's worth trying the conversion, but don't be too disappointed if it doesn't work flawlessly. Msg#:24553 *PROJECTS* 10/31/89 10:07:12 From: INCO SRL To: CIARCIA Subj: ZYMOS AT CHIP SET WHERE IN EUROPE OR ITALY IS POSSIBLE PURCHA PURCHASING AT CHIP SET FROM ZYMOX? OUR ADDRES IS:INCO SRL VIA GARIBALDI 27 31030 CASTELLO DI GODEGO (TV) ITALY THANK YOU FOR YOUR ANSWER Msg#:24562 *PROJECTS* 10/31/89 12:11:47 From: STEVE CIARCIA To: INCO SRL (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 24553 (ZYMOS AT CHIP SET) The POACH chip set used on the OEM-286 is available from Micromint for $175. You have to find a ZYMOS distributor and ask them for anything in EUROPE if you want to buy it directly. --Steve Msg#:24554 *PROJECTS* 10/31/89 10:21:23 From: INCO SRL To: CIARCIA Subj: ZYMOS AT CHIP SET ~r~rxDi} FIVE {_MINUTES AGO WE LEAVE A MESSAGE FOR YOU WITHOUT OUR FAX NUMBER HERE FOLLOW OUR FAX NUMBER( 4246 FOR A i]}iFAST ANSWi]ER OUR }iBUSINESS IS IND{_USTRIAL CONTROL THANK YOU AGAIN M.FANTIN FROM INCO ITALY Msg#:24563 *PROJECTS* 10/31/89 12:13:40 From: STEVE CIARCIA To: INCO SRL (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 24554 (ZYMOS AT CHIP SET) You might want to contact Micromint about the new T-286 board. It is a 12 MHz 80286 that holds up to 4 Mbytes. It is $399 with 0K of memory. --Steve PS. Micromint has a European distributor in England ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ This installment of Circuit Cellar BBS on Disk covers both issues 13 and 14 of Circuit Cellar INK. As you begin reading, you will notice a block of missing messages. Due to an unfortunate combination of circumstances involving the BBS software, we lost all the BBS messages posted during December '89 and January '90. This is, therefore, a culmination of all the messages remaining which were posted during November '89 and February '90. We apologize for any inconvenience the missing messages may cause. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Msg#:24729 *PROJECTS* 11/04/89 16:50:27 From: STEVE PAYER To: ED NISLEY (Rcvd) Subj: DDT-31 HELP! I AM HAVING A PROBLEM USING MY DDT-31 WHEN INTERFACED WITH RTC-31. I GET " 8031 DID NOT START IN TIME, INVALID IRQ COUNT, DUMP MAYBE TRASH ETC." AND GARBAGE DISPLAYED FOR INTERNAL RAM. (USUALLY SEQUENTIAL NUMBERS FROM TESTER PROGRAM.) IT PASSES TESTER WITH NO ERRORS. INTERFACE WIRING AND SIGNAL INTEGRITY APPEARS TO BE GOOD. I FOUND THAT RTC-31 WILL BLINK THE LED AS A STAND ALONE UNIT WITHOUT KERNEL. PROPER RTC JUMPER CONFIGURATIONS HAVE BEEN OBSERVED. DDT-31 WILL WORK PERFECTLY ON THE TARGET SYSTEM IN NOV/DEC 88 ISSUE. I AM PERPLEXED. ANY HELP WOULD BE APPRECIATED. THANK YOU. STEVE PAYER Msg#:24798 *PROJECTS* 11/06/89 10:09:58 From: ED NISLEY To: STEVE PAYER (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 24729 (DDT-31) Did you remove JP1 on the RTC31 board to disconnect that 10 uF reset capacitor? That'll slow down the reset enough to confuse the issue. If that's OK, take a look through the message base and see what we've suggested to other folks in your situation... there are a couple of standard Things to Look For that should get you running. Have at it! Msg#:24750 *PROJECTS* 11/04/89 22:55:52 From: ED FANTA To: ALL Subj: IC TESTER Hello I downloaded the file ICTROM12.hex,which is to be burned into a PROM for the CC IC tester. Now the problem is that I am not sure how to read the Hex dump of the code! If I am not mistaken the first byte on the line is the number of bytes on the line and I believe the next three bytes are the address,and the rest are the code to be burned. If this is true I might have a problem, the first line shows two bytes on the line but I see three in the dump,am I not reading this right or did I have a problem with the download? On another note,this has got to be the busiest noncommercial BBS that I have EVER seen,and looks like it will one I will keep on calling. Any help will be apprieciated. Ed Msg#:24795 *PROJECTS* 11/06/89 09:39:55 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: ED FANTA (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 24750 (IC TESTER) In Intel hex, each line starts with a colon. The rest of the line is made up of a pairs of digits, with each pair representing an 8-bit hex number. The number after the colon is the number of *data* bytes on the line. The next two numbers are the 16-bit address for the data on the line. The next number is the line type. A "00" means the line contains data; a "01" means the line is the last in the file. There are more types, but they aren't often used. After the line type comes the data. The last number in the line is a two's complement checksum of all the numbers in the line including the number of data bytes, the address, and the line type. If all you want from the file is the data, you basically discard the first nine characters and the last two on each line. Msg#:24843 *PROJECTS* 11/06/89 21:44:44 From: ED FANTA To: KEN DAVIDSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 24795 (IC TESTER) Thanks much I did not know of the 00 byte or the end byte, that would explain why the burned EPROM and the downloaded code (that I was looking at with a word processor)seemed to be different. Ed Msg#:25002 *PROJECTS* 02/01/90 20:32:51 From: GREG BELL To: ALL Subj: TI VIDEO CHIP (9118) Are there any known errors in the video portion of the schematic for the Home Run Control System in May '85 Byte? I'm having a hell of a time getting my TMS9118 to work... is the G\ line of the VRAMs supposed to be tied or low? The schematic doesn't indicate. The TI databooks say low, but as I said, I'm having problems. Symptoms: The display is garbage if both 4416s are plugged in, but if either is taken out of its socket, the screen is blank (as it should be in my case). Also, if the G\ line is taken HI (inactive), the screen is clear, but any attempt to setup a character results in a flash of that character across a row of the screen... but it disappears. What gives? Greg Bell Msg#:25034 *PROJECTS* 02/02/90 09:28:16 From: JEFF BACHIOCHI To: GREG BELL (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 25002 (TI VIDEO CHIP (9118)) Greg, G\ is an output enable. It is necessary when the data bus is being shared by more than one device capable of driving it. In the case of the HCS, both RAMs are four-bits wide. One drives the top nibble D7-D4 and the other drives the bottom nibble D3-D0. No contention is possible so the G\ can be tied to ground. Check your initialization code again. Good Luck. jeff Msg#:25038 *PROJECTS* 02/02/90 12:21:50 From: STEVE CIARCIA To: GREG BELL (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 25002 (TI VIDEO CHIP (9118)) There are no schematic errors in the HCS article that I know of. DOesn't that use a 9918 and not a 9118? --Steve Msg#:25098 *PROJECTS* 02/05/90 01:23:36 From: GREG BELL To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 25038 (TI VIDEO CHIP (9118)) Nope... its a 9118... thanks for the answer. By the way, TI has been VERY unhelpful. They have basically disowned a great chip. They seem to be concentrating on all their new chips, and neglecting the old ones (even though they're still making them). Nothing like being on your own! "The 91 what?" GBell Msg#:25099 *PROJECTS* 02/05/90 01:28:37 From: GREG BELL To: JEFF BACHIOCHI (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 25034 (TI VIDEO CHIP (9118)) Here's a new developement: The chip works if only one of the RAMs is plugged in at a time. That is, if the chip driving D0-D3 is in, I get the left half of my "A" on the screen, and a clear display, if the chip for D4-D7 is in, the right half... and the chips are interchangable (so they aren't bad). But, if BOTH are in, the display goes to garbage. Odd? They're made by INMOS, and I'm wondering if they are loading the bus down too much (going to get the spec sheet from INMOS soon). What does it sound like to you? G\ is tied low as it should be for the above symptoms. Thanks for your help! GBell Msg#:25119 *PROJECTS* 02/05/90 09:02:49 From: JEFF BACHIOCHI To: GREG BELL (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 25099 (TI VIDEO CHIP (9118)) Greg, Sounds mysterious to me. Remember there is no bus oading l here, two RAMs and the display chip. The RAMs don't connect to the bus. How about decoupling? Got some caps on those RAMs? jeff Msg#:25177 *PROJECTS* 02/06/90 11:04:13 From: STEVE CIARCIA To: GREG BELL (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 25098 (TI VIDEO CHIP (9118)) We have about 700 of the 9118 chips. How about designing a video card for the RTC52/31 and marketing it? --Steve Msg#:25259 *PROJECTS* 02/09/90 03:16:56 From: GREG BELL To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 25177 (TI VIDEO CHIP (9118)) Bold offer considering the problem I'm having with a simple 3 chip design! 700 chips, eh? TI is disowning the chip, however great it may be (none of the newer are suitable for TV display which is pretty much essential for home video products). They're still manufacturing it, but are "not recommending it for new designs". Great decision :^) GBell Msg#:25274 *PROJECTS* 02/09/90 14:06:19 From: STEVE CIARCIA To: GREG BELL (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 25259 (TI VIDEO CHIP (9118)) I'm suggesting that you make the board and sell it as a kit or something in an INK ad. Quite a few little guys are doing a land office business after starting with that first 9th page ad in INK. Ask Tim Mcdonough. --Steve Msg#:25300 *PROJECTS* 02/11/90 06:53:00 From: BRUCE GRAHAM To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 25177 (TI VIDEO CHIP (9118)) Steve, For a pair of those 9118's I'm sure I can put something together. Board article, you name it. Bruce Msg#:25343 *PROJECTS* 02/12/90 10:19:06 From: STEVE CIARCIA To: BRUCE GRAHAM (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 25300 (TI VIDEO CHIP (9118)) Someone left me a message at the office regarding 9118 chips which I passed on to sales. Was that you? If not, drop me a US Mail note with your request and I'll see what I can do. --Steve Msg#:25069 *PROJECTS* 02/04/90 03:49:27 From: RON GRANT To: ANYONE Subj: PRIMITIVE EPROM PROGRAMMER Hello! I'am building the FEB85 Primitive EPROM programmer, and I have a question about IC1 which is shown in the mag as (AY3-1015). Is this chip functionally the same as a (6402 EIA STD UART?). It seems to be pin for pin compatible, but I can't find any real references it. If the chips are incompatible then where can I find the (AY3-1015). Thank you in advance for the info. Msg#:25074 *PROJECTS* 02/04/90 06:05:17 From: BRUCE GRAHAM To: RON GRANT (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 25069 (PRIMITIVE EPROM PROGRAMMER) Ron, The GI-UART AY5-1013 is blisterpacke by the JAMECO people on those little yellow cards in better parts distributors. Bruce 8*) Msg#:25124 *PROJECTS* 02/05/90 09:47:21 From: JEFF BACHIOCHI To: RON GRANT (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 25069 (PRIMITIVE EPROM PROGRAMMER) Ron, That's General Instruments. Also check Standard Microsystem Corp's COM8017 and Western Digital's TR1602. jeff Msg#:25181 *PROJECTS* 02/06/90 12:17:50 From: STEVE CIARCIA To: RON GRANT (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 25069 (PRIMITIVE EPROM PROGRAMMER) There was a schematic error in the original schematic published in BYTE. A corrected schematic is published in Circuit Cellar Volume VI. --STeve Msg#:25293 *PROJECTS* 02/11/90 03:38:21 From: RON GRANT To: BRUCE GRAHAM (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 25074 (PRIMITIVE EPROM PROGRAMMER) Thanks for the response, but was your number AY5-1013 an corrected number? or is it still the AY3-1015 which is used? rg. Msg#:25294 *PROJECTS* 02/11/90 03:43:35 From: RON GRANT To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 25181 (PRIMITIVE EPROM PROGRAMMER) Thanks for the response. Was there a mistake as to the UART's part number? also where can I get Vol VI? I have the text file from this board which gave corrections prior to the BYTE artical. Are there more errors which are not mentioned in the update? rg. Msg#:25295 *PROJECTS* 02/11/90 03:51:27 From: RON GRANT To: JEFF BACHIOCHI (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 25124 (PRIMITIVE EPROM PROGRAMMER) Thanks! ..... The GI was driving me crazy! I'll check into the other two UART's also. rg. Msg#:25296 *PROJECTS* 02/11/90 06:27:25 From: BRUCE GRAHAM To: RON GRANT (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 25293 (PRIMITIVE EPROM PROGRAMMER) I should quit witing messages off the top of my head. In actual fact the UART which I have in my hot little hand is an AY-3-1014A. Also the former GI now seems to be called Microchip Technology. The address is 2355 W. Chandler Blvd., Chandler, AZ 85224-6199 Phone (602) 963-7373. They were real nice to me last week, got some free samples from them. Bruce :-) Msg#:25298 *PROJECTS* 02/11/90 06:39:27 From: ERIC BOHLMAN To: RON GRANT (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 25293 (PRIMITIVE EPROM PROGRAMMER) The 1013 is an older-style UART that requires multiple voltages. The 1015 is a "standard" UART that runs off 5V only. I THINK it's pin-compatible with the 6402. Msg#:25342 *PROJECTS* 02/12/90 09:39:53 From: STEVE CIARCIA To: RON GRANT (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 25294 (PRIMITIVE EPROM PROGRAMMER) All the UARTs mentioned are pin compatible. Only the power requirements vary. The corrections on this bbs to the programmer schematic are AFTER the BYTE article because they are corrections to it. When CCC Vol VI was published it used the updated schematic. ALl my books are availble (at a discount over the book stores, I might add) from CCI at 203-875-2751. Volume VII is now available as well. --Steve Msg#:25515 *PROJECTS* 02/18/90 04:30:55 From: RON GRANT To: BRUCE GRAHAM (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 25296 (PRIMITIVE EPROM PROGRAMMER) Thank's for the company name and the phone number. I am probably going to need them because I've already stuck my neck out. I have just purchased both the AY5-1013 and the 6402. I don't have a diagram of either, so I don't know the voltage requirements for the 1013, but it is my hope that the 6402 will work properly since it's a 5V IC. If you would like the 1013 I'll sell it to you for half price I really don't need it. Thanks again for your help. Msg#:25517 *PROJECTS* 02/18/90 04:39:49 From: RON GRANT To: ERIC BOHLMAN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 25298 (PRIMITIVE EPROM PROGRAMMER) If you read message 25296 you'll see that I really do hope the 6402 and the 1015 are compatable. I wish I could call this BBS on weekdays, but as of now I can only call on Sundays. If I could have called on a weekday I would not have bought the wrong UARTS, So haste does make waste in my case. Thanks for your advice. rg. Msg#:25518 *PROJECTS* 02/18/90 04:43:00 From: RON GRANT To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 25342 (PRIMITIVE EPROM PROGRAMMER) Thanks for the info! I'll save time and money when I go buy the book. rg. Msg#:25073 *PROJECTS* 02/04/90 06:03:12 From: BRUCE GRAHAM To: RANDY SHOCKLEY (Rcvd) Subj: NOISE Randy, Have you considered the path from your board through your power supply and from there to your monitor. Radiated noise is one side of the coin, and conducted noise is the other. Find a nearby Ham Operator, if all else fails. Bruce 8*) Msg#:25078 *PROJECTS* 02/04/90 10:07:41 From: RANDY SHOCKLEY To: BRUCE GRAHAM (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 25073 (NOISE) Bruce I'm pretty sure its being conducted via the power supply lines. If the circuit is disconnected from the TV the television picture is fine even with the circuit still running. Randy Shockley Msg#:25123 *PROJECTS* 02/05/90 09:32:15 From: JEFF BACHIOCHI To: RANDY SHOCKLEY (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 25067 (NOISE) Randy, If the set runs fine when disconnected from the circuit by still powered, then I would think it's radiated and not powerline transmitted! Try shielding your circuit with tinfoil wrapped all around it! Remember to insulate the foil from your circuitry but do connect it to the ground lead of your power supply. This is the kind of thing the FCC tries to protect against. Just think of how your neighbors might like to see that on their sets. jeff Msg#:25484 *PROJECTS* 02/16/90 23:51:11 From: RANDY SHOCKLEY To: JEFF BACHIOCHI (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 25123 (NOISE) Jeff I'm fairly sure that the source of my interference is noise in the power supply line which is being generated by the digital section of the circuit. This noise is entering the RF modulator's B+ and affecting the resulting signal going to the TV. I've been playing around with filters on the B+ line which will lessen the interference, but I still have not been able to totally eliminate it. Not sure if I should focus on "cleaning" the B+ line into the RF modulator or focus on trying to prevent the noise from getting into the power supply in the first place. Time to brush up on filter design I guess... Randy Shockley Msg#:25521 *PROJECTS* 02/18/90 06:52:40 From: ERIC BOHLMAN To: RANDY SHOCKLEY (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 25484 (NOISE) You might actually want to use a CHOKE on the power input to the RF modulator. If the power input is regulated, run it through its own regulator. In any case, run it STRAIGHT to the main supply; don't pick up the power from somewhere in the middle of the logic section. Msg#:25574 *PROJECTS* 02/19/90 12:57:42 From: ED NISLEY To: ERIC BOHLMAN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 25521 (NOISE) Ferrite beads work wonders for this sort of thing... they're not called "black magic" for nothing! Msg#:25657 *PROJECTS* 02/20/90 23:35:12 From: RANDY SHOCKLEY To: ERIC BOHLMAN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 25521 (NOISE) Eric I'll give it a try... Randy Shockley Msg#:26269 *PROJECTS* 03/10/90 00:43:53 From: BRUCE GRAHAM To: RANDY SHOCKLEY (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 25484 (NOISE) This may be an obvious suggestion but why not use separate(identical) supplies ??? Bruce Msg#:25080 *PROJECTS* 02/04/90 11:26:46 From: TERRY L RUPPE To: ALL Subj: BCC60 Anyone interested in a BCC60 Floppy Disk Controller Board ? I have one I bought and ended up not using - complete with software BCC60-1-20. Paid $300 will sell for $225, need the money to buy another BCC180. Unit has never been used. Anyone interested please leave a message . Terry L Ruppe Msg#:26278 *PROJECTS* 03/10/90 05:30:00 From: WYNN BEATTIE To: TERRY L RUPPE (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 25080 (BCC60) TERRY, I HAVE A BCC180 FOR SALE. I AM LOOKING FOR A BCC52 WITH ACCESSORIES OR I AM WILLING TO SELL THE BCC180 I HAVE WITH INCLUDES.... 96K OF 0 WAIT STATE RAM DAUGHTER BOARD USED VERY LITTLE BECAUSE I DONT HAVE A DISK BASED SYSTEM AND NEED ACCESS TO MORE THAN 32K OF ROM THRU THE BASIC COMPLIER. I AM SELLING THE SYSTEM FOR $250 IF YOUR INTERESTED CALL ME TUES-SUN AFTER 5:15 PM OR ANY TIME ON THE WEEKEND... Msg#:25122 *PROJECTS* 02/05/90 09:30:28 From: NEIL CHERRY To: ED NISLEY (Rcvd) Subj: DDT51 I am interested in getting the DDT51 but I will not be using and IBM computer (never did like that chip set). The computers I have available have parallel ports and plenty of line to drive the board but what I need is a better understanding of what lines are needed or how the parallel port is expected to know when to read the port. The pascal code used by the IBM should be not too much trouble to convert over to C. Also as a note, the Operating system is OSK 2.3 a multitasking multiuser operating system running on a PT68K board using the motorola 68000. NJC Msg#:25191 *PROJECTS* 02/06/90 13:30:26 From: ED NISLEY To: NEIL CHERRY (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 25122 (DDT51) Probably the best way to do what you want is to take the source code and reverse engineer it... that beats depending on external documentation any day. The interface is pretty simple. You need eight bidirectional data bits, three strobes to write data into the DDT-51 latches, one strobe to read data back from the 8255, and enough grounds to keep the signals happy. All the busy testing is done by looking at bits reported back from the board; the lower-level routines have all this pretty well documented. Because the PC is "in control" it knows what the 8031 should be doing and can look for the right things in the right places... at least in principle! All of the ugly hardware interfaces are tucked into a few low-level routines, so if you can modify those to use your hardware the other shouldn't take too much tinkering. All the programs use "TTY style" output rather than fancy full-screen stuff, so there's not much PC specific trickery involved there, either. Sounds like fun! Msg#:25196 *PROJECTS* 02/06/90 18:54:46 From: NEIL CHERRY To: ED NISLEY (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 25191 (DDT51) Oh boy George I can hardly wait, oh boy , oh boy, oh boy! Actually it sounds like the project may be possible. I'll need to look into the device driver source I have to see if its set for a simple printer interface (8 data 1 ACK and 1 strobe) or the full deal. Thanks! NJC Msg#:25237 *PROJECTS* 02/08/90 10:51:24 From: ED NISLEY To: NEIL CHERRY (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 25196 (DDT51) Hey, look, what one person can figure out, another can, too. That's what make cryptography such a losing proposition... and we really don't try to encrypt the design! If you have only one or two lines other than the data bits you may have to add some latches externally to hold the four "strobe" lines. There are no timing requirements, so you don't have to worry about being too slow... and it'll probably be fast enough that you won't be waiting too long to get the data across. Msg#:25366 *PROJECTS* 02/13/90 01:20:10 From: DAVE EWEN To: ED NISLEY (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 25237 (DDT51) Say Ed, Would you happen to know anything about the 82C11? If so you'll be able to guess my next question :-) Msg#:25464 *PROJECTS* 02/16/90 11:41:12 From: ED NISLEY To: DAVE EWEN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 25366 (DDT51) The answers are... Yes, I know a very little about the 82C11. No, as near as I can tell, you can't make it be bidirectional for use with a DDT-51. How did I do? The doc I've seen on the chip (I've never held a working one in my hand) says absolutely zip about making it be bidirectional. There is an output pin that says "DIR" on it, but the schematic I was looking at had nothing connected to that pin. What I'd do if I were you is make some careful experiments... turn off the machine, hook up a scope, and flip some bits with DEBUG to see if anything obvious is the right thing. If you can figure out how to make it work, we can probably put some code into DDT-51 to use it. Fair enough? Msg#:25505 *PROJECTS* 02/17/90 20:51:15 From: DAVE EWEN To: ED NISLEY (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 25464 (DDT51) Ed, I doubt there is much hope for my little 82c11 printer card. It fails CHECKDDT. How many different ways could a bi- directional printer port be set up? -dave Msg#:25572 *PROJECTS* 02/19/90 12:51:22 From: ED NISLEY To: DAVE EWEN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 25505 (DDT51) Well, I can name three offhand... The "official" DDT-51 method (bit 20 hex of the control port). The "official" IBM PS/2 method (same as DDT-51, but you must futz with the POS circuitry to put the port into "enhanced" mode). The Toshiba laptop method (write FF to port 3xF, then flip bit 80 hex in the controls port, or something like that... there was a thread on this a while back). And, of course, however the 82C11 works, if it works at all... Msg#:25760 *PROJECTS* 02/23/90 16:02:10 From: ED NISLEY To: DAVE EWEN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 25464 (DDT51) We just got a printer card with an 82C11 on it, and manuals are on the way... more later! Msg#:25809 *PROJECTS* 02/25/90 11:33:51 From: DAVE EWEN To: ED NISLEY (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 25760 (DDT51) I'll wait a bit then and see if you make any fantastic discoveries. I don't even have a data sheet, and the '90 ic master has no info on it either. Msg#:26213 *PROJECTS* 03/08/90 14:54:17 From: ED NISLEY To: DAVE EWEN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 25809 (DDT51) OK, here's the straight dope... you can't make an 82C11 work with DDT-51. The chip implements the "standard" IBM parallel printer port, so there are only five bits in the control port. The DDT-51 mod requires the "unused" sixth bit that's present in the 74LS174 on the original board... but the 82C11 doesn't have that bit! There is an external input (POE) that enables the printer data lines, so you can make the port work bi-directionally by controlling that line (disable the drivers when you're reading external data). Unfortunately, the DDT-51 circuitry uses all four control outputs to clock data into the board's latches (a pair of LS374s and the 8255 RD/WR inputs), so there are no other output bits available to control the drivers. What's needed is a clever hack to free up one of the four available output pins to drive the POE input. There aren't any unused bits in the 374 that is enabled all the time (the one that drives the 8255 address inputs), so I can't steal one from there. Argh! So it goes... sorry. Msg#:26304 *PROJECTS* 03/11/90 10:07:59 From: DAVE EWEN To: ED NISLEY (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 26213 (DDT51) Ed, thanks a lot for checking it out for me. It seems odd that a new chip would come out and not be ps/2 compatable. Other than the DDT-51 and a few other emulation systems, do you know if there are any printers out there that are set up to "talk back?" Msg#:26354 *PROJECTS* 03/12/90 16:41:09 From: ED NISLEY To: DAVE EWEN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 26304 (DDT51) By definition, I think not, because no printer ports can "hear" what they say! That's one think I bet the LaserJet II can do that they don't tell you about in the manuals... wouldn't it be nice if it could give you some hints as to what you just screwed up? Anybody ever spelunk one of those gizmos? Msg#:26631 *PROJECTS* 03/22/90 00:00:04 From: STEVEN HARGUS To: DAVE EWEN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 25505 (DDT51) Speaking of LaserJet II, the company I work for leases them out and I repair them... I could look it up in the service specs. Msg#:25268 *PROJECTS* 02/09/90 09:40:35 From: SJOERD DOST To: ED NISLEY (Rcvd) Subj: DDT51 START-UP PROBLEMS Subj. DDT51 Start-up problems After spending long but interesting hours on the DDT51 project (Better late if ever ??) I have to ask for some ideas on how to get it "knocked". I have implemented all cabling recommendations and can run TESTER almost fully and dependantly. The "almost" now beats me. I can run tester fully and dependantly until the last test (TARGET-RAM/DEBUG) were TARGET-RAM gives FF errors only for adresses 0nFF (where n=0 to 7) when verifying. The second to last test however ,running TARGET-RAM verify with exactly the same pascal code, runs without any errors. With DEBUG31 I can load the kernel and run the program BLINKY correct whereby function keys F2,F3 and F9 work correct. On step/stop (F10) however I run into problems since an error msg appears being "8031 did not stop in time". By modifying the pascal routine it is clear that the timeout counter in the PC overflows (>10). Measuring the IRQ signal shows that this signal is correctly being received but no 8031 HALTED signal is generated. The blinkbit in this case stops. By pressing step/stop the same error msg appears. If you hit reset (F2) and then F10 the ramdump is being carried out which is partially right. This dump however shows a PC versus 8031 IRQ count conflict with the msg that the dump might be trash. Seeing the above it could be that the T1 output or input of the 8031 is defect or being forced down. Changing the 8031 or disconnecting the output pin still does not show the 8031 HALTED signal. Do I have to go back to basics ?? Msg#:25286 *PROJECTS* 02/10/90 15:04:41 From: J. SCOTT STADLER To: ALL Subj: DIGITAL OSCILLOSCOPE I am interested in building a digital scope board for my PC. I noticed that Issue #5 of CCI had programs for such a poject, but I do not not have access to this issue. Can anyone give me a breif description of waht this project entailed, and a short list of the scopes capabilities. Has anyone built this project and have any comments? Does anyone know how I can obtain a copy of CCI #5. Any suggestions or references to other scope construction articles would be appreciated. I am particuarly interested in using DMA to achieve a higher data transfer rate than is avalable with normal data moves. Msg#:25336 *PROJECTS* 02/12/90 08:02:36 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: J. SCOTT STADLER (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 25286 (DIGITAL OSCILLOSCOPE) Go to the INK information section to find out how to get a copy of issue #5 as a back issue. Since it's only $4, it might be worth your while just to get the article rather than have someone try to repeat it here. Msg#:25322 *PROJECTS* 02/11/90 20:56:33 From: TOM HAUFF To: ALL Subj: DDT-51 AND SOME TO: ALL SUBJ: Help I am working with a board called Logatest Logic Analyzer this board was made by EM Enterprises from Sierra Vista, AZ a Mr Don Fletcher (how I think is in Tucson, AZ at this time but will not return my calls?). This board is a 32 bit Logic Analyzer with a speed of 70ns per sample ? I think it has a clock input problem. I'm trying to use it to watch a Motorola 6809. It will get the first reset vector FFFE and the data but all the memory of the Logic Analyzer fills up with this? Help if some one has data on this board or has worked with one and can help call (303) 452 4717. THANK YOU QUESTION NUMBER TWO: SUBJ: DDT-51 I'm think of building the DDT-51 but I have a stand a lone EPROM PRG. can I use this and not put the EPROM PRG. on the DDT-51 board? Msg#:25354 *PROJECTS* 02/12/90 13:10:58 From: ED NISLEY To: TOM HAUFF (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 25322 (DDT-51 AND SOME) As far as the EPROM programmer on the DDT-51 board goes, it's a ZIF socket and a few discrete components, driven by a pair of 9 volt batteries. If you leave it off, the rest of the circuitry will never know the difference! Msg#:25323 *PROJECTS* 02/12/90 00:39:31 From: HOWARD MCKAY To: TERRY YINGLING Subj: EPROM PROGRAMMER Terry: I just did that very mod.... I used A15 inverted for CSbar on the 43256. The top 1/2 of the 74138 is enabled with A15. I felt pretty silly after I did the Boolean algebra, but next time I'll probably be more careful. Late, but not even a little dead. Howard. Msg#:25386 *PROJECTS* 02/13/90 15:59:41 From: KEN MUNKHOLM To: JEFF BACHIOCHI (Rcvd) Subj: BCC52 Jeff, I would like to use theBCC52 as an 8032 development board. Can I just jumper JP5 to cause the 8052 to behave as an 8032 and plug my eprom into U1 (address 0000h)? Thanks? ken Msg#:25389 *PROJECTS* 02/13/90 18:26:34 From: RICK BERUBE To: KEN MUNKHOLM (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 25386 (BCC52) "Yes Ken there is a Santa Claus!" Except for the jumper you have everything correct. I'm pretty sure that its actually JP9 not JP5 that you must jump, although I'm not certain because I don't have a schematic in front of me. By the way, Micromint doesn't ship the BCC52 with this particular berg header to make the connectio, however its location is marked on the top side of the PC between the 8052-BASIC and the memory sockets if memory serves. I know it can be done, because that's how I used the board! Msg#:25398 *PROJECTS* 02/14/90 01:04:43 From: KEN MUNKHOLM To: RICK BERUBE (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 25389 (BCC52) Thanks Rick When I built the board I installed a jumper. Now, on to a new language!! Msg#:25556 *PROJECTS* 02/19/90 09:27:14 From: JEFF BACHIOCHI To: KEN MUNKHOLM (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 25386 (BCC52) Ken, Looks like your in good hands with Rick! It's nice to see all the features of the BCC52 being used. Few realize this board make a great 8031 based development system! jeff Msg#:25471 *PROJECTS* 02/16/90 12:30:13 From: ED NISLEY To: ALL Subj: DDT-51 Achtung! For reasons that make no sense at all, there's a "new" version of the DDT-51 software in the files section. It's dated in early '89, which is when the last byte was written, but it's taken this long to show up here. The only differences between the old & new versions are a few minor bug fixes. There are no new features, so if you're not having any troubles now, don't bother downloading the new files. Sigh. Msg#:25485 *PROJECTS* 02/16/90 23:51:59 From: RANDY SHOCKLEY To: ALL Subj: 80188 Does anyone know of a source of the 80188 IC in single quantity? Randy Shockley Msg#:25513 *PROJECTS* 02/18/90 02:44:06 From: GREG BELL To: ALL Subj: TI VIDEO CHIP (9118) Well, I found the solution to the strange problem I was having with TI's 9118. I returned the INMOS "functionally equivalent" DRAMs to Jameco and got some actual TMS parts instead. Sure enough, they work like a charm!! Now for some more interesting problems: 1) Text column 0 is actually out of the frame! So, col 1 is the first I can see well on my TV. What to do? The chip's obviously starting to send the video signal too soon after SYNC, right? 2) Have other users of this noticed that there isn't much of a difference between dark blue and light blue? I tried decreasing the pull-down resistance on the COMVID output, but that didn't help the contrast between dark and light blue (same for the other colors). Many thanks for any help that everyone can provide. This project's a lot of fun, and I'd sure like to get it working perfectly. GBell Msg#:25697 *PROJECTS* 02/21/90 15:51:56 From: EVAN HOLLANDER To: JEFF BACHIOCHI (Rcvd) Subj: CIRCUIT CELLAR EPROM PROGRAMM Jeff, I was wondering if anyone has an update to the circuit cellar prom programmer software to program 27011 type (paged) EPROM's. Thanks Evan Hollander Msg#:25894 *PROJECTS* 02/27/90 10:44:49 From: JEFF BACHIOCHI To: EVAN HOLLANDER (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 25697 (CIRCUIT CELLAR EPROM PROGRAMM) Evan, There are not enough control lines on the SEP for all the address lines of the 1Meg chips, not to mention it's a 32 pin device. If you were satisfied with a manual jumper for the extra address lines, the easiest way would be to make a module that plugs into the SEP and brings the correct signals down to the 28 pin ZIF. This way you would not have to anything to the software. Remember the total RAM available is 32k so that demands four passes for 1M (128k x 8). jeff Msg#:25856 *PROJECTS* 02/26/90 15:55:37 From: RICK BERUBE To: JEFF BACHIOCHI (Rcvd) Subj: MICROMINT Hi Steve, I just received some new information regarding expected Micromint product releases. I was glad to see that some of my questions were answered, however some were generated. What exactly is an ASCII keyboard? I noticed that one of the LCD modules MM offers accepts both a 4x4 matrix and ASCII keyboard. At first I thought an ASCII keyboard was one that generated a serial byte but then I noticed that both the 4x4 matrix and the ASCII keyboard are input to the same 8-bit port? Could you elaborate? Also I just received CCI first year reprint. I keep comming across mentions of X-10 controllers that MM manufactures but I haven't seen anything regarding these controllers in the catalogs I've received from them. Has MM discontinued these products? I have only been getting the catlogs for about a year. Thanks, Rick :-{}. P.S. I just received the SD1-3 kit and was pleasantly surprised to find an issue of CCI #13 included. Although I already have this issue perhaps I can pass it on to one of my associates and bring a new convert to the "Dark Side". ;-{)} Msg#:25905 *PROJECTS* 02/27/90 11:29:42 From: JEFF BACHIOCHI To: RICK BERUBE (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 25856 (MICROMINT) Rick, An ASCII keyboard is a parallel device providing a byte's worth (7 bits at least 0-127 or 8-bits 0-255) of information upon a keypress. A keypress also produces a 'good data available' strobe used usually used as an interrupt source. The parallel data presented is in the standard ASCII character codes. jeff Msg#:25956 *PROJECTS* 02/28/90 21:39:57 From: RICK BERUBE To: JEFF BACHIOCHI (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 25905 (MICROMINT) Thanks for the info Jeff. The BCC25 or equivalent sounds like a great litte board. Can I do bit-mapped graphics on these boards? As far as the keyboard is concerned, I'm looking for a wafer-thin keypad the has all the alphanumeric keys. I'm trying to make a handheld terminal so size is everything. Something about the size of a Casio Digital diary or HP28S keyboard. If a can find a nice LCD display and keyboard, I'll use the RTC52 or RTC31 to complete the design. Thanks, Rick :-{()}. Msg#:25977 *PROJECTS* 03/01/90 10:55:32 From: JEFF BACHIOCHI To: RICK BERUBE (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 25956 (MICROMINT) Rick, You're not the first person to want a handheld terminal. The only thing available around costs $5-800. You'd think there might be a low cost one around but I've yet to see it. Micromint's 4x20 LCD is alphanumeric only. The 8x40 can do either alphanumeric or bitmapped graphics. jeff Msg#:26020 *PROJECTS* 03/02/90 10:53:15 From: RICK BERUBE To: JEFF BACHIOCHI (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 25977 (MICROMINT) THANKS JEFF. I WAS ABLE TO FIND A SEIK0 GRAPHIC MODULE FOR ABOUT $72 IN SINGLE QUANITIES FROM SEIKO INSTRUMENTS USA INC, ELECTRONICS COMPONENTS DIVISION, 2990 W. LOMITA BLVD., TORRANCE, CA. 90505; TELEPHONE:(213)517-779 2. I'LLL CHECK OUT THE BCC MODULE AND MAKE MY DECISION AFTER I KNOW WHAT I CAN GET FOR A KEYBOARD. AS FAR AS KEYBOARDS GO, PERHAPS I MIGHT JUST BE BETTER OFF SCRAPPING AN OLD DIGITAL DIARY FOR ITS KEYBOARD! THANKS, RICK. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Msg#:25977 *PROJECTS* 03/01/90 10:55:32 From: JEFF BACHIOCHI To: RICK BERUBE (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 25956 (MICROMINT) Rick, You're not the first person to want a handheld terminal. The only thing available around costs $5-800. You'd think there might be a low cost one around but I've yet to see it. Micromint's 4x20 LCD is alphanumeric only. The 8x40 can do either alphanumeric or bitmapped graphics. jeff Msg#:26020 *PROJECTS* 03/02/90 10:53:15 From: RICK BERUBE To: JEFF BACHIOCHI (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 25977 (MICROMINT) THANKS JEFF. I WAS ABLE TO FIND A SEIK0 GRAPHIC MODULE FOR ABOUT $72 IN SINGLE QUANITIES FROM SEIKO INSTRUMENTS USA INC, ELECTRONICS COMPONENTS DIVISION, 2990 W. LOMITA BLVD., TORRANCE, CA. 90505; TELEPHONE:(213)517-779 2. I'LLL CHECK OUT THE BCC MODULE AND MAKE MY DECISION AFTER I KNOW WHAT I CAN GET FOR A KEYBOARD. AS FAR AS KEYBOARDS GO, PERHAPS I MIGHT JUST BE BETTER OFF SCRAPPING AN OLD DIGITAL DIARY FOR ITS KEYBOARD! THANKS, RICK. Msg#:26042 *PROJECTS* 03/03/90 21:25:47 From: MATTHEW WOOLSEY To: ALL Subj: DDT-51 => RTC31 => 8279C-2 I AM USING A 8279C-2 KEYBOARD/DISPLAY DRIVER CHIP FOR KEYPAD INPUT ON THE RTC31. THE PROBLEM I HAVE, IS THAT THE RATINGS FOR THE 8279C-2 STATE THAT THE MAXIMUM CLOCK FREQUENCY IS 2MHZ. CAN THE CRYSTAL ON THE RTC31 BE CHANGED TO A 2MHZ, WHILE STILL ALLOWING ME TO DEVELOP MY SYSTEM USING THE DDT-51? ANY PROBLEM RUNNING THE RTC31 AT 2MHZ? I WOULD APPRECIATE ANY COMMENTS. Msg#:26178 *PROJECTS* 03/07/90 12:24:22 From: STEVE CIARCIA To: MATTHEW WOOLSEY (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 26042 (DDT-51 => RTC31 => 8279C-2) The is a new RTC-LCD board available for the RTC system. Besides running a 4x20 or 8x40 LCD it includes 8-bit LED driver, 8-bit input port, and a 74C922 4x4 keypad encoder. If you don't want the whole board, order the manual and just build that portion of the circuit on a RCT-proto board. Regarding the RTC31. If your board has an 8031 chip it probably shouldn't be run any slower that 3 MHz. If it has an 80C31 then it depends on the which manufacturer. If you stick in an 80C52-BASIC chip (you can use it with BASIC or jumper it to function as an 80C32 [same as an 80C31 with 128 extra bytes of memory and one more timer]). The Micromint 80C52 will operate from DC to 12 MHz (actually we've run them at 22 MHz). BTW, the slower the clock the less power it takes. --Steve Msg#:26217 *PROJECTS* 03/08/90 16:50:37 From: ED NISLEY To: MATTHEW WOOLSEY (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 26042 (DDT-51 => RTC31 => 8279C-2) The only catch might be that the PC software will time out while waiting for the 8031 to acknowledge interrupts... after all, it's running at 1/6 the normal rate, so the standard timeout might be too short. You can tinker the timeout value in the PC code and recompile it; this might be one of the few excuses for using a 4.77 MHz PC! Msg#:26061 *PROJECTS* 03/04/90 08:54:55 From: CHUCK DAVIS To: JEFF BACHIOCHI (Rcvd) Subj: HAL-4 Hi Steve & the CCi gang, I have finally finished a first cut of the HAL-4 software for the Amiga! :-) I'm really quite happy with the results that I'm getting, so far. It's coded 100% assembly and it enabled me to really get down inside the Amiga's OS. Like `yesterday I could not spell programur, today i are 1' What I've done, in terms of the DFT, is to make it look like a zero freguency I-F receiver sampling continuously at the data rate and then displaying the data as fast as the Amiga @7.2 mHz can go. Of course, uploading the spectrum data into the blitter helps take the load off the MC68000 `code museum';-) I think my screen is updating at, at least, 8-12 times/sec. Although I've had the board wired for some time, the only test that I made was the old finger tip on the four inputs test on the PC side of the Amy2000. Thursday, I prepared the EEG electrodes and hooked myself up. After spending a little more time readjusting the gain "integer scaling?" of the continuous_DFT, I then sat back and began to gaze grinningly at the screen. Now get this... As I'm viewing the screen, I could `see' rhythmic music modulating the spectrum. On a phone conversation, I could see my `Self' say yes just before I moved my chops :-)) I think we can now observe evoked potentials and event related experiments at this level rather on raw data. With removal of the 70 sample delay and the data queues, the transient response is a joy to watch. That is...if you get off on that sort of thing ;+) I just can't wait for my new A2630 brd. At 25 mHz, pattern recognizers and simple neural nets in realtime might be kinda cute. Better keep an eye out for the paranoid `Thought Police' :+>> BTW, Thanks for Version 2.0. It comes quite timely as this mod should be easy to implement on a 286 code museum, tnx to Bill Nisley's nice work. Obj code for the Amiga should be available `RealSoonNow' then the AT only version `PrettySoonQuick'. I can contacted daily on the LA Amiga Users' Group BBS 213-858-8073 213-850-5264 voice or here on CktCellar every other week or so. Low budget, you know :-) ChuckD.... Msg#:26218 *PROJECTS* 03/08/90 16:57:36 From: ED NISLEY To: CHUCK DAVIS (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 26061 (HAL-4) It's Ed Nisley... unless the Thought Police know something I don't! Msg#:26235 *PROJECTS* 03/09/90 03:57:16 From: CHUCK DAVIS To: ED NISLEY (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 26218 (HAL-4) One never knows, does one? :+) ChuckD.... Msg#:26132 *PROJECTS* 03/06/90 15:24:56 From: JAMES TUCKER To: SYSOP (Rcvd) Subj: 8052 BASIC PROJECT I remember from the dark recesses of my mind that you did a project in BYTE magazine using the Intel 8052BASIC processor. When was that, and how can I get a reprint? Is the board available? I will call back in a couple days, or drop me a note at James Tucker, Broadcast Electronics, 4100 North 24th Street, Quincy, IL, 62305. OF COURSE, I WILL REPAY YOU FOR YOUR EXPENSES. I uploaded BATM.ZIP yesterday. Did you look at it? I wrote it myself, so the source is available, if wanted. Jim Tucker Msg#:26179 *PROJECTS* 03/07/90 13:10:25 From: JAMES TUCKER To: KEN DAVIDSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 26157 (8052 BASIC PROJECT) Thank you, Ken. You have been a great help. Msg#:26213 *PROJECTS* 03/08/90 14:54:17 From: ED NISLEY To: DAVE EWEN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 25809 (DDT51) OK, here's the straight dope... you can't make an 82C11 work with DDT-51. The chip implements the "standard" IBM parallel printer port, so there are only five bits in the control port. The DDT-51 mod requires the "unused" sixth bit that's present in the 74LS174 on the original board... but the 82C11 doesn't have that bit! There is an external input (POE) that enables the printer data lines, so you can make the port work bi-directionally by controlling that line (disable the drivers when you're reading external data). Unfortunately, the DDT-51 circuitry uses all four control outputs to clock data into the board's latches (a pair of LS374s and the 8255 RD/WR inputs), so there are no other output bits available to control the drivers. What's needed is a clever hack to free up one of the four available output pins to drive the POE input. There aren't any unused bits in the 374 that is enabled all the time (the one that drives the 8255 address inputs), so I can't steal one from there. Argh! So it goes... sorry. Msg#:26304 *PROJECTS* 03/11/90 10:07:59 From: DAVE EWEN To: ED NISLEY (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 26213 (DDT51) Ed, thanks a lot for checking it out for me. It seems odd that a new chip would come out and not be ps/2 compatable. Other than the DDT-51 and a few other emulation systems, do you know if there are any printers out there that are set up to "talk back?" Msg#:26354 *PROJECTS* 03/12/90 16:41:09 From: ED NISLEY To: DAVE EWEN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 26304 (DDT51) By definition, I think not, because no printer ports can "hear" what they say! That's one think I bet the LaserJet II can do that they don't tell you about in the manuals... wouldn't it be nice if it could give you some hints as to what you just screwed up? Anybody ever spelunk one of those gizmos? Msg#:26631 *PROJECTS* 03/22/90 00:00:04 From: STEVEN HARGUS To: DAVE EWEN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 25505 (DDT51) Speaking of LaserJet II, the company I work for leases them out and I repair them... I could look it up in the service specs. Msg#:26266 *PROJECTS* 03/09/90 23:54:20 From: TERRY L RUPPE To: ALL Subj: BCC60 I Have a BCC60 Floppy Disk Controller for the BCC180 that I bought about 6 months ago. My project ended up not needing it- it was never even used. I also have the software that goes with it. Circuit Cellar price was $300 I will sell it for $200. I hope someone is interested the board is of no use to me now. Anyone........ leave me a message. Terry L Ruppe Msg#:26269 *PROJECTS* 03/10/90 00:43:53 From: BRUCE GRAHAM To: RANDY SHOCKLEY (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 25484 (NOISE) This may be an obvious suggestion but why not use separate(identical) supplies ??? Bruce Msg#:26278 *PROJECTS* 03/10/90 05:30:00 From: WYNN BEATTIE To: TERRY L RUPPE (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 25080 (BCC60) TERRY, I HAVE A BCC180 FOR SALE. I AM LOOKING FOR A BCC52 WITH ACCESSORIES OR I AM WILLING TO SELL THE BCC180 I HAVE WITH INCLUDES.... 96K OF 0 WAIT STATE RAM DAUGHTER BOARD USED VERY LITTLE BECAUSE I DONT HAVE A DISK BASED SYSTEM AND NEED ACCESS TO MORE THAN 32K OF ROM THRU THE BASIC COMPLIER. I AM SELLING THE SYSTEM FOR $250 IF YOUR INTERESTED CALL ME TUES-SUN AFTER 5:15 PM OR ANY TIME ON THE WEEKEND... Msg#:26282 *PROJECTS* 03/10/90 13:05:16 From: HARRY KISSEOGLOU To: ALL Subj: RS232 SERIAL BUFFER WANTED I am looking for a buffer for the serial (rs232) port of my IBM AT. I do not want to get into eprom programming etc. so I desided to create my own without a microprocessor. It is not an easy task implementing the FIFO algorithm in hardware and having the buffer read and write data at the same time. Does anyone have a schematic that could help me or know of any ICs that would make my life easyer. If so, please leave a message. Thank you, Harry Kisseoglou Msg#:26519 *PROJECTS* 03/17/90 17:13:46 From: MARK BALCH To: HARRY KISSEOGLOU Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 26282 (RS232 SERIAL BUFFER WANTED) Harry, have you been using standard SRAMs or FIFO buffers? I've seen what look like very nice FIFO buffers anywhere from 8 bytes to 1K byte (I don't remember details). Lots of companies make them, among which are TI and Cypress. Motorola might too (why not?). Writre to them for info. Good luck...Mark Msg#:26349 *PROJECTS* 03/12/90 16:02:22 From: JEFF BOLY To: STEVE CIARCIA AND ED NISLEY Subj: CCBM DEFENSE SYSTEM Well I have finally gotten around to building a CCBM defense system to protect my home and community. I am progressing rather nicely and have found most of the parts except one. This part is the elusive silicone shock mount which is used as the expanding seal. Would you please point me in the right direction or give me the number and address of the place where you got yours. The safety of myself and my community is riding on this. Since I live in Silicon Valley this could have an effect on the supply of electronic parts for you back east. I appreciate the effort. -Jeff Boly Msg#:26413 *PROJECTS* 03/14/90 10:17:55 From: ED NISLEY To: JEFF BOLY (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 26349 (CCBM DEFENSE SYSTEM) I scrounged that washer directly from my scrap heap, so there are no part numbers or sources! Try things like a stack of garden hose washers, a hunk of snow (or truck) tire tread, or any other rubbery thing you have lying around. The washers I used worked, but I've tried a whole bunch of other things that were just about as good. Have you figured out how to manage terminal guidance yet? Mind those potted plants! Msg#:26418 *PROJECTS* 03/14/90 12:26:54 From: JEFF BOLY To: ED NISLEY (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 26413 (CCBM DEFENSE SYSTEM) Thanks for the info Ed, I used to have a great scrap heap, but now I move often and I have no place to keep a large heap of junk. I will look through all of the scrap heaps I know of and I am sure I will find something. As far as terminal guidance goes, I think I will mount small thrusters controlled by 8031's and a solid fuel booster. Yeah and a little gizmo .............. - Jeff Msg#:26386 *PROJECTS* 03/13/90 14:07:46 From: FOSTER SCHUCKER To: ALL Subj: DDT51 AND TECHTIP I have a few questions about the DDT-51. 1) There was a message here about the port on a Toshiba T1000 being bi-directional, and therefor useable with the DDT-51. I sent off for the Toshiba Reference Manual. I got the port address, wrote a program to set the bit. When I run the CHECKDDT program it tells me that I need to alter the printer port to be bi-directional. Is the CHECKDDT program doing something to the port? Is there something else that I need to do to make it the DDT51 work with the T1000? Are there people who have used the T1000 without resorting to hacking the board? And questions about the CCINK Tech Tips: 2) I got my CCINK Tech Tips in the mail. I liked the 4 channel remote control tips (one each of transmit and receive). I'm a little confused about the 4 channels. It looks like there are two analog channels and two digital channels. The text on the tip says that there are six digital channels. Can someone explain how many channels there are and what the encoding of the digital info is? Is it a binary setup, ie two bits of info? Could I use the bit as a serial device? If so, what would be the baud rate I could use? Thanks for the Tips, I think I can really use the remote control one. Keep them coming! Msg#:26410 *PROJECTS* 03/14/90 08:56:38 From: BURT BROWN To: FOSTER SCHUCKER (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 26386 (DDT51 AND TECHTIP) Here's some more info on those chips. The 1872 receiver/decoder is a four channel device. You can configure the part for two analog channels and two digital channels or four of either one. The transmitter is a six channel part but because of the particular PCM scheme being used, you can't access those extra two channels on the receive end. Channels one and two use a variable pulse width encoding scheme for analog transmission and these channels are always transmitted. The four states of the digital outputs on the receiver are encoded by varying the number of channels transmitted; either three, four, five, or six to get the full two-bit range on the receive digital outputs. Hope this answers your questions, Burt. Msg#:26487 *PROJECTS* 03/16/90 10:50:24 From: ED NISLEY To: FOSTER SCHUCKER Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 26386 (DDT51 AND TECHTIP) The Toshiba port is bi-directional, but you'll need to add the code to enable it and flip the magic bit to the DDT-51 programs yourself. If I was going to go back and re-do the software (which might still happen!), I'd add a configuration file to specify hardware-dependent things like which port to use and what type it is. As the code stands, you've got to have precisely the right hardware... so the only choice for you Tosh owners is to modify the code. All the code you need to tweak is in BUSINTF.P, and I think it's modularized well enough that a few surgical strikes will suffice... try it and see! Msg#:26402 *PROJECTS* 03/14/90 00:24:01 From: JOHN C. LAWRENCE To: ALL Subj: DDT-51 AND 8031 John C. Lawrence 108 Gondrella Drive Belle Chasse, LA 70037 (504) 394-2523 March 13, 1990 To: All readers Subject: DDT-51 and 8031 Anyone who has built the DDT-51 from the schematic shown in BYTE magazine Sept. 1988 issue. I am having bus conflicts when I run the XP2 to XP0 test. THw wrap on the pins are correct since I can make it work by pulling pin 1 on IC5 and IC6 high. The problem I am having is during this test both pins 1 and 19 on IC5 and IC6 are being pulled low at the same time. This causes the buffers to try and transmit in both directions at once. The second thing I need is more information on assembly programming for the 8031. "How to" books are very few and very far between. Any help will be appreciated. Note: I do have several books from Intel. Thanks John C. Lawrence Msg#:26424 *PROJECTS* 03/14/90 20:28:21 From: PAUL PETERSEN To: JOHN C. LAWRENCE (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 26402 (DDT-51 AND 8031) john, someone posted a msg here a couple of days ago showing; to obtain the 8051 tranining and reference source "the 8051 Programming, Interfacing, and Applications" by Dr Howard Boyet Microprocessor Training Inc. 14 E 8th St New York, NY 10003 attn Dr. Boyet apparently its a training type of publication that might be of help to you. regards, paul Msg#:26469 *PROJECTS* 03/15/90 23:29:53 From: JOHN C. LAWRENCE To: PAUL PETERSEN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 26424 (DDT-51 AND 8031) Thanks Paul I hope this will come in handy. No help with my problem on my DDT-51?? Thanks again John Lawrence Msg#:26466 *PROJECTS* 03/15/90 21:19:47 From: RANDY RAUSTAD To: ALL Subj: DDT51 Another DDT51 question. I never get the haltbit set low no matter what state the system is in. from reading some of the other messages I get the feeling that it might be the cable from my PC to the ddt51 board. The blinky program continues to run when I try to enter single step. Has anyone else had this problem and found a solution? I find it hard to believe that it is my printer cable. Also is there anyone out there that calls in from the Bay Area in California. I would like to find some local people. Randy Raustad. Msg#:29131 *PROJECTS* 05/28/90 09:39:14 From: THOMAS BLACK To: RANDY RAUSTAD Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 26466 (DDT51) Sounds like the kernal program has been trashed or perhaps you have a hardware problem. Run the diagnostic program - if anything fails or looks flakey then fix it! Even an intermittant failure during these tests are a sure sign of trouble!! One thing that you must do that is not clearly documented (it is, but it isn't) is that you must disable the Write line to the Target CPU's ROM (which now has ram in it) after kernal has been loaded. I have a little jumper that I move whenever I send the Kernal Code. If you don't do this, everything may appear to work, yet parts of kernal will be corrupted as soon as your program is loaded or executed. I'm located in Sacramento and don't mind talking to you, but you will have to pay for any telephone calls. I'm hard to reach, but 7:30PM to 9:30PM are usually good times, else leave a message and I'll call collect. Do not leave messages to me on this BBS - I don't log on often. Msg#:29192 *PROJECTS* 05/29/90 12:35:33 From: ED NISLEY To: THOMAS BLACK Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 29131 (DDT51) Well, the reason we don't emphasize disabling the "ROM" write line is that you may very well want to write data into the RAM that's really in the system. If you're pulling a jumper out, make sure the 8031 is reset while you do it! The Debug RAM on the DDT-51 board can be trashed by an errant program, which is why KERNEL and DEBUG31 each keep track of the interrupt count: if that's bad, there's no telling what else got mashed. Write-protecting the "ROM" is a good idea, but if your code runs wild, there's lots of other things that it can destroy... Msg#:26663 *PROJECTS* 03/23/90 03:35:40 From: JOSEPH D GRADECKI To: ALL Subj: CA3306 Gentlemen, Where can I obtain a CA3306 used in the Imagewise digitizer/transmitter? joe Msg#:26679 *PROJECTS* 03/23/90 12:41:50 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: JOSEPH D GRADECKI (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 26663 (CA3306) I believe CCI sells the chip. Call (203) 875-2751 and ask. Msg#:26737 *PROJECTS* 03/24/90 19:21:39 From: BILL JAMIESON To: KEN DAVIDSON (Rcvd) Subj: ELECTRO-NET I'm not sure how to direct my requests for information so I addressed it the way I did. Please notify me if this is incorrect. I once read, although I don't recall where, that there is a Net the works on th AC line. My project needs any information or idea where to look for such a system even if I can only be redirected to where I originally saw the article. Please let me know ASAP - it's very important to me. Thanx Bill Jamieson Msg#:26847 *PROJECTS* 03/26/90 21:04:23 From: PAUL PETERSEN To: BILL JAMIESON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 26737 (ELECTRO-NET) bill, i too have seen ac-line lan's. if it were me i'd look in some masters listings under LAN hardware suppliers and start calling. as i recall... i think... the company was in mass. you might also call some of the magazines. byte, pc-world, pc-resource hope this helps, paul Msg#:27339 *PROJECTS* 04/08/90 18:45:58 From: BILL JAMIESON To: PAUL PETERSEN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 26847 (ELECTRO-NET) Thanks Paul for the input on LANs -Bill J Msg#:28856 *PROJECTS* 05/20/90 19:13:35 From: STEVEN HARGUS To: BILL JAMIESON Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 26737 (ELECTRO-NET) The network that uses the AC line is called CARRIER-NET. BYTE reviewed it some time ago, and the company ran an ad somewhere, Byte, i think. Let me know if you need me to find it for you. Msg#:26775 *PROJECTS* 03/25/90 20:48:17 From: JOHN MCAVOY To: ED NISLEY (Rcvd) Subj: DDT51 NOTES I AM NEW TO THE BOARD AND AM JUST STARTING A 8031 PROJECT. I READ SOME OF THE CONDENSED NOTES ON THE DDT51 ET AL.. BUT THERE ARE JUST TO MANY.. IS THERE A FILE I CAN DOWNLOAD SO I DON'T HAVE TO STAY ON THE BOARD.. THIS LOOKS VERY INTERESTING AND I THINK I'M GOING TO ENJOY THIS.. THANKS.. Msg#:26809 *PROJECTS* 03/26/90 09:13:22 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: JOHN MCAVOY (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 26775 (DDT51 NOTES) You can download the notes as well as read them on-line. The whole reason Ed put the file together was so you wouldn't have to stay on-line. Go to the tility area fromn the main menu and econfigure your terminal so there are no pauses at the end of each screen. Then go back to the otes area. Open the capture buffer on your end (see your comm program's documentation if you don't know how) and select the item that has all the DDT-51 messages. When done, simply close the buffer, log off, and read the messages at your leisure. Msg#:26947 *PROJECTS* 03/29/90 13:43:03 From: ED NISLEY To: JOHN MCAVOY (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 26775 (DDT51 NOTES) That's how it's done... Make sure you get a set of the Intel manuals right up front. They'll explain a lot about how the 8051 works and save you a bunch of annoyance later on. There have been several pointers to 8051 books in the last few weeks (months? time passes quickly!), so you might want to capture all the messages with 8051/8052/8031 in the subjects and read them along with the notes file. Msg#:27040 *PROJECTS* 04/01/90 00:24:10 From: JOHN MCAVOY To: ED NISLEY (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 26947 (DDT51 NOTES) OK, HERE WE GO... I'LL GIVE IT A TRY.. I KNOW I JUST GLANCED THROUGH THE FILE AND IT LOOKED LIKE THERE WAS SOME NEAT STUFF IN THER.. Msg#:26970 *PROJECTS* 03/30/90 00:36:56 From: JOHN C. LAWRENCE To: ED NISLEY (Rcvd) Subj: 8051 BOOK I have found one book so far on programing the 8051,31 etc. "The 8051 Programming interfacing Applications" by Howard Boyet at Microprocessor Training Inc. 14 East 8th Street, NYC 10003 (212) 473-4947. Howard Boyet will send you a copy of the book for $35 plus shipping. I am in the same boat trying to learn how to program a 8031. The book is pretty good with a lot of sample programs, but it is based on Intel's SDK-51 system. John C. Lawrence Msg#:26985 *PROJECTS* 03/30/90 01:38:54 From: DON ANDERSON To: JOHN C. LAWRENCE (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 26970 (8051 BOOK) How long did it take him to send his book to you??? Don Msg#:27068 *PROJECTS* 04/01/90 15:30:00 From: JOHN C. LAWRENCE To: DON ANDERSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 26985 (8051 BOOK) I had him send the book COD and second day air via UPS. You can also send him a check or money order made out to Microprocessor Training Inc. This way will take about a week to two weeks or so. John Msg#:27079 *PROJECTS* 04/01/90 23:41:59 From: DON ANDERSON To: JOHN C. LAWRENCE (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 27068 (8051 BOOK) As fate would have it, the day after I posted the message to you , the book arrived. The jury is still out on whether I am happy with it, I was expecting to see more schematics (on periferrals(sp?)) and I was very disappointed to find it intimately tied to a a "training system that seems to have been discontinued 10 years ago". I know that the book ultimately will be a good reference for assembly but I am not ready for that yet. Thanks for the reply. Don Msg#:26971 *PROJECTS* 03/30/90 00:38:22 From: JOHN C. LAWRENCE To: ALL Subj: 8031 WRITE SIGNAL John C. Lawrence 108 Gondrella Drive Belle Chasse, LA 70037 (504) 394-2523 March 29, 1990 To: All Subj. 8031 *WR I built a basic 8031 system based on the schematic in BYTE magazine. I wanted to run test program on the 8031 board connected to a test board consisting of LEDs and buffers. The program turned is to turn on all outputs and then turn them off one at a time with a delay loop. I am using the MOVX @DPTR,A where I set the DPTR to the address at which I wanted to write the contents of the accumulator. In the program I write the control word, 80H, for the 8255 at 8003H and A003H. Then I write FFH to all ports on the 8255s. My problem is that I am not getting a *WR pulse from the 8031. I even disconnected the wire going to the RAM and the 8255s from pin 16 on the 8031 and still no write pulse. It remains a high signal. What is happening? Msg#:26987 *PROJECTS* 03/30/90 05:10:40 From: ERIC BOHLMAN To: JOHN C. LAWRENCE (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 26971 (8031 WRITE SIGNAL) Make sure that if you output anything to port three, you have bit 6 set to a one. P3.6 is also the WR pin, and if you write a zero to it it will stay there; the zero overrides the alternate function. Msg#:27069 *PROJECTS* 04/01/90 15:33:36 From: JOHN C. LAWRENCE To: ERIC BOHLMAN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 26987 (8031 WRITE SIGNAL) Thanks for the information Eric. I do not beleive this is happening since I get a steady +5V from this pin. Unless if there is some way that I could get +5 from the pin and still write a 0 to the pin?? Thanks again John C. Lawrence Msg#:27202 *PROJECTS* 04/04/90 18:28:14 From: RICK BERUBE To: ERIC BOHLMAN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 26987 (8031 WRITE SIGNAL) Eric, check Intel's reference manual on this one. I can't remember if port 3 needs pull-ups. If not I think you've got a bad chip there unless the chip isn't an 8031. Make sure the *EA pin is grounded for external memory references. If *EA is high you may not be running your code at all! Msg#:26991 *PROJECTS* 03/30/90 08:01:32 From: JOSEPH SWEENEY To: ANYONE IN CIRCUIT DESIGN Subj: BAR CODE ARE THERE ANY PUBLICATIONS OF YOURS THAT DEAL WITH BUILDING A BAR CODE CIRCUIT. I WANT TO INTERFACE INTO AN IBM COMPATIBLE SYSTEM. ALSO COULD YOU RECOMMEND ANY BOOKS ON BAR CODE THAT WOULD BE TECHNICAL AND START AT THE BEGINNING. I SUBSCRIBE TO CIRCUIT CELLAR BUT HAVE SEEN NOTHING ABOUT BAR CODE. Msg#:27505 *PROJECTS* 04/12/90 20:06:16 From: DAVID K. MERRIMAN To: JOSEPH SWEENEY Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 26991 (BAR CODE) Joseph: If you will get in touch with your local Hewlett Packard office, HP has a rather nice little booklet on bar codes, and their implementation- including displays of the different codes (3of9, 2of5, interleaved 2of5, codabar, code 11, etc). It's titled "Elements of a Bar Code System", and it's application note 1013, publication #5953-9387. Also, you might be interested to know that HP sells a few VERY NICE barcode-reading chips (read the code, determine what it is, and output the characters), as well as some nice little barcode wands, light/detector ICs, etc. Hope this helps. <]Dave[> Msg#:27030 *PROJECTS* 03/31/90 11:50:10 From: RANDY SHOCKLEY To: GREG BELL (Rcvd) Subj: TI9118 Greg I don't think there is anything you can do about the TI9118 displaying the first column off the screen except for a "software fix" of the problem. All of the timing is hardcoded into the chip at the manufacturer so we're stuck with it. Are you putting your software into battery backed up SRAM that this system runs on or is this just for developing? Have you tryed EEPROMs? They are the next best thing to sliced bread in my opinion. Have you ever used the power down feature of the 8031/8051 where you can save the internal RAM contents? I haven't completed my system yet, but I'm making it into a enviromental control / alarm system for my home. You can set things like furnance temp and alarm system on/off via my IR remote control. A touch of the A/B button and the screen switches to a menu where I can go through and set things up. Ought to be slick when I get done. Later... Randy Msg#:27035 *PROJECTS* 03/31/90 20:48:10 From: GREG BELL To: RANDY SHOCKLEY (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 27030 (TI9118) Oh well, I guess I'll just have to live with 39 cols. Your project sounds neat. I plan on doing something similiar when I eventually own a house. Until then, its hi-tech auto theft detterents :) By the way, what are you using for your IR receiver? Your own circuit, one from an article, or one of those Sharp "everything in a little metal box" dealies from R-Shack? I'm not using an EEPROM... just an SRAM with battery backup. I'm using a DS1210 (Dallas Semi) and its been very unreliable - even after countless suggestions from Dallas. Can very well have a reliable alarm system if the program data goes bye-bye during a power outage! Maybe if I weren't in school some of these problems would find themselves being solved more promptly... GBell Msg#:27398 *PROJECTS* 04/11/90 00:40:20 From: RANDY SHOCKLEY To: GREG BELL (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 27035 (TI9118) Greg I'm using one of those Radio Shack all-in-one IR receivers. Works great and I didn't have to mess with the design. No need to reinvent the wheel. Randy Shockley Msg#:27108 *PROJECTS* 04/02/90 15:50:46 From: EVAN HOLLANDER To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: LASER DIODES Steve, Isn't there any concern for snow or dirt covering your mirror or lenses outside? I realize that the only problem may be the lights staying on ... buothethan a daily cleaning (which would become very tiring very quickly) how do you keep the system up? Evan Msg#:27154 *PROJECTS* 04/03/90 08:32:37 From: STEVE CIARCIA To: EVAN HOLLANDER (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 27108 (LASER DIODES) Maybe there's less dirt in Connecticut :-) Nope, haven't had to clean mirrors but once in the last year. --Steve Msg#:27166 *PROJECTS* 04/03/90 13:34:46 From: EVAN HOLLANDER To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 27154 (LASER DIODES) How do you handle snow? Is the mirror in a shrouded enclosure? ... evan Msg#:27196 *PROJECTS* 04/04/90 12:54:49 From: ED NISLEY To: EVAN HOLLANDER (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 27108 (LASER DIODES) If there's less dirt in Connecticut, you can't prove it by me! This place is crusty... they use dirt rather than salt on the roads, and we've got dunes at the foot of the driveway. Of course, if you keep the power up, you just burn the crust off the lenses... Msg#:27385 *PROJECTS* 04/10/90 11:05:09 From: STEVE CIARCIA To: EVAN HOLLANDER (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 27166 (LASER DIODES) Haven't had a snow problem yet. Maybe they were small storms :-) --Steve Msg#:27171 *PROJECTS* 04/03/90 17:26:34 From: WAYNE LEANZA To: ALL Subj: DDT-51 IMPROPVEMENT I have modified the pascal file so that the DDT-51 will give symbols and labels as well as comments instead of just the hex opcodes and locations. This is brief as I must go.Basically you need to modify the DUMPRAM routine in the SYSCTRLS file add the following VAL('$'+Byte TOHex(sysRAM[$8D])+ByteToHex(sysRAM[$D1]),point,result);::seek(myfile,point );read(myfile,temp);writeln(temp.comm);close(myfile);....In addition you need to declare the variables point result and temp at the beginning of the routine. Also you need to write another short routine to create the disk file MYFILE Let's call it TRYIT.prg ituses hte test (.tst) file to create the comment file. BEGIN CLrscr:;Writeln;;Assign(myfile,(yourfile name)) ;Assign(comment,'rem.lst');Reset(myfile);Rewrite(comment);linecounte r :=0; I MUST GO will try to get through(a major task) mananana. Msg#:27229 *PROJECTS* 04/05/90 12:43:18 From: WAYNE LEANZA To: ALL DDT-51 USERS Subj: DDT-51 UPLOAD PROBLMS to DDT-51 users: I am using a modification to debug31 which allows me to see the appropriate line from the .LST file when I single step or put in a breakpoint. Thus I can see labels snd symbols such as JB newpage instead of JB A4 [D. I thought others might like this but I cannot seem to upload successfully (Idon't think). It's kind of long and awkward to leave it all as a message. We've got a new system here at D.U. I think it uses Kermit. I don't get the difference between Transmit and send and auto send on this sytem. Anyway if anyone is interse[Dted tell me how to upload and I will try again BYE Wayne Msg#:27437 *PROJECTS* 04/11/90 16:35:15 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: WAYNE LEANZA (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 27229 (DDT-51 UPLOAD PROBLMS) All you should have to do is go to the iles area from the main menu, select pload, give a filename and description, select Kermit, then send the file. I can't be much help in telling you what to do to get your end started, though. Msg#:27281 *PROJECTS* 04/06/90 23:37:51 From: STEVE BLAIR To: ALL Subj: BASICNET V1.0 I have written my own version of MC-NET, I call it BasicNET. I am not a software engineer but I have a good tight piece of code here. The network supports 32 nodes right now (could support up to 255) and supports console I/O to an IBM, NET packets to & from any other node, reserved node functions, and much more. The only reason I spent my free time for four months tackling such a project was simple; I have a need for networking 8052 nodes and I don't have $400 to spend on the firmware or an extra AT to dedicate to the network. Each node may cause itself to be taken offline or online at any time in case a given node(s) only need to send packets at say 12:00 each day. Each node has a different node number and the firmware assumes node 0 is the console (IBM) and that node 1 will start out as the polling master. If node 1 dies the next higher numbered node that is "alive" will assume the responsibility of being the master node. According to a stopwatch & a little math, I'm getting 22 nodes polled per second when no packets are being sent. The console program for the IBM is currently written in Microsoft QuickBasic. I am looking for a competent 'C' programmer who would be interested in coding the QB into 'C'. The software does work in QB but I can't add a lot of bells and whistles because the main loop must repeat so quickly or it will not function. If anyone is interested, please leave a message...........Steve Blair Msg#:27723 *PROJECTS* 04/17/90 14:44:09 From: STEVE CIARCIA To: STEVE BLAIR (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 27281 (BASICNET V1.0) Perhaps you should be advertising your software in CC INK. --Steve Msg#:28572 *PROJECTS* 05/13/90 13:27:46 From: RICHARD HEILIGER To: STEVE BLAIR (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 27281 (BASICNET V1.0) I am interested in your basicnet software it sounds like just what I need. I dont know if I am a competent C programer but would perhaps take a shot at convertint your software to C, tho it seems that with the polling speed and versatility you allready have that converting it would be unessesary. As STEVE suggested, if you advertise it I would be interested in buying. Msg#:29025 *PROJECTS* 05/25/90 02:07:44 From: STEVE BLAIR To: RICHARD HEILIGER (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 28572 (BASICNET V1.0) Alas, I have added all the bells and whistles. The devil I knois not who I thought he was. BasicNET is finished!!! I'm typing the manual now. Perhaps I should put an ad in CCI...who knows...Steve Blair Msg#:27282 *PROJECTS* 04/07/90 00:40:18 From: TERRY L RUPPE To: ALL Subj: IC TESTER Has anyone added the ability to test more chips to the stock IC TESTER . Just got mine together and it works slick. If }ianyone has added something please leave a message. Thanks Terry L Ruppe Msg#:27546 *PROJECTS* 04/14/90 03:34:06 From: THOMAS J POWDERLY To: KEN DAVIDSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 19509 (IMAGEWISE) KEN, I'VE JUST FINISHED BUILDING THE IMAGEWISE rcvr.. I'd like to have known that the shields were available.. also where do you get the teeny box caps taht were used? Do you strap down the Xtals with wire? What vertical mount switches are those pads for? What were the head- ers for? (disable the panasonic swxs?) How much are the shields? Is there a top AND bottom? The toughest part to find for me is the RCA pc mount! (i've just got rg59 soldered to pads now!). I get a pretty 'lined' image.. vertical bands (pixel wide lines) kind of like what bad ram looks like.. and waviness too. is this shield- ing? Is the proper shield got a separate box around the final video stage? (is.. replace with 'does').. I've found a few Atari ST files (utilities) for the ImageWise on BIX.. mostly running under OS-9.. I no got OS-9, so I wrote a converter for Cnote & Motor with FastBasic I'll roll it over to something more generic and upload it. (maybe just down-code it to asm.. C takes to much space!) Also.. (bitch, bitch, bitch huh? ) I can't log on at 1200 baud reliably, I tried a good dozen times tonight .. Volksmodem 1200 at 1200 baud.. I'm doing this at 300 baud from Chicago! Pleaase.. vas ist? regards Tom Powderly Msg#:27650 *PROJECTS* 04/16/90 13:41:30 From: ED NISLEY To: THOMAS J POWDERLY (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 27546 (IMAGEWISE) It sounds like you've got either a bad ground somewhere or a feeble power supply driving the thing. Check to make sure the DC supply isn't ripply! There are no "shields" for the analog section, as the PC board layout puts enough ground plane around the circuitry to keep the racket down. The DAC output drives the monitor pretty much directly, so there isn't too much room for badness there. Make sure you've got a terminator in there somewhere to keep the voltage at a reasonable level. If you have vertical bars that are a single pel wide, I'd suspect a solder blob on the low-order address line. Have you inspected the board for cold solder joints, splashes, and similar goofs... using a magnifying lens? Msg#:27658 *PROJECTS* 04/16/90 14:30:36 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: THOMAS J POWDERLY (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 27546 (IMAGEWISE) As Ed has already said, the ImageWise doesn't use or need traditional metal shields around it to keep stray radiation away from it. We do sell enclosures for the ImageWise that do wonders to keep it from radiating into your television or stereo. What "teeny box caps" are you referring to? If you're talking about the 0.1-uF bypass caps, we simply used a rectangle on the silkscreen. Any monolithic or ceramic 0.1-uF cap will do just fine. If you want to tie down the crystal with wire, that's fine with me, but it's not something we ever do. The holes are there, though. The reset and picture request switches have three options. Which you install depends on the final application. You can install a flat push button, a momentary toggle switch (I've seen it available from a number of sources), or a pair of wires that go to a switch mounted somewhere else. You only need one installed to use the board, but all three may be installed if you're the type that doesn't like decisions. The RCA jacks can be obtained from Mouser. Go to the otes section from the main menu to get a list of suppliers and Mouser's address. As for connecting at 1200 bps, try calling (203) 871-0549. That has a different brand 1200-bps modem attached that may connect more reliably with your brand modem. Msg#:27870 *PROJECTS* 04/21/90 23:54:20 From: THOMAS J POWDERLY To: ED NISLEY (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 27650 (IMAGEWISE) Thanks Ed, I've got the thing yp right now & I see 15 evenly spaced vertical bars more or less 1 pel wide.. I think there's some overscan bar(s) that I can't see. I'll check out the address/data idea now. Thanks.. Tom Powderly Msg#:27871 *PROJECTS* 04/21/90 23:59:41 From: THOMAS J POWDERLY To: KEN DAVIDSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 27658 (IMAGEWISE) Thanks Ken, I'll check Mouser for the jacks. I've just written 3 files to send the reciever. One with all $3f data, one with $20 data, one with $01 data (video data, all the other stuff is there). Did this to better see the vertical banding.. It's for real.. Ed said it might be low address problem.. I think he's right. Don't recall why I thought it was the DAC before.. thanks T. Powderly Msg#:28074 *PROJECTS* 04/26/90 14:35:08 From: ED NISLEY To: THOMAS J POWDERLY Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 27871 (IMAGEWISE) Everybody picks on the most expensive thing to fix first... that's why you thought it was the DAC. Fortunately, the problem usually has something to do with solder: too much, too little, or the wrong kind. Take a close look at the board and I bet you'll find the splash. Msg#:27569 *PROJECTS* 04/15/90 01:27:16 From: MICHAEL DINGELDEY To: ANYONE (AND EVERYONE...) Subj: DDT51 Hi everyone. Since I now have time on my hands, I have decided to start building some of the projects, both old and new. Well, right now, I am building the DDT51. I seem to have a problem though. Since I already have an EPROM programmer (the SEP), I figured I don't need the one on the DDT. The question is: has anyone modified the code so that the DDT's eprom burner does not work? I figure that if I leave it off, I could end up with a very samll footprint too.... Any help would be greatly appreciated......Thanks! Msg#:27652 *PROJECTS* 04/16/90 13:44:49 From: ED NISLEY To: MICHAEL DINGELDEY (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 27569 (DDT51) It turns out that the EPROM burner is a single ZIF socket, a transistor, and a few resistors. Leave out the socket and everything that doesn't connect to anywhere else... you'll save a little bit of board space, but it's not a huge fraction of the total. Msg#:27809 *PROJECTS* 04/20/90 01:32:11 From: MICHAEL DINGELDEY To: ED NISLEY (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 27652 (DDT51) Thanks! kind of figured that's all there was to it, but....... (as the bits turn): I also want to disable the software. My only problem is that i have Turbo Pascal 5.5, and it doesn't seem to like the version 3.0 (wonder why). I looked at what I would have to do to convert it, but i really don't want to go mucking around with the code too much....at this point and time I really don't think that changing any of the variable types around would hurt, but I can't be too sure. Of course, since I have alot to do at work right now (stay conscious), I am attempting to change things from Pascal to C. I wasn't too clear on some things, but I guess I'll clear them when I get to them. (You wouldn't have any C source code around would you?) Anyway, back to the Pascal end of things.....Assuming that I can get ahold of TP version 3.0, would just setting the EPROMburn flag to false, and removing all references to the EPROM burn step work? Would it have any impact on the rest of the software? Just wondering. By the way, If I do (if) get the C code to work, would you be interested in an upload? Also (not related...): Micro Cornucopia is folding its tent, and is having a garage sale on odds and ends. The stuff I ordered came in today, and seems to work fairly well....I bought 14 2764's for 21, and a BabyBlue Z80 card I have in my at clone. After some switch changes, it seems to work pretty well at 6MHZ. I'm going to try and get it to work on the 12MHZ tomorrow. Incidentally, the BabyBlue cards are being sold for $10. Too bad a 64180 won't fit on it.....! Thanks for the info on the DDT. Now, all I have to do is build it (sounds like a good thing to start at lunch!) :) Msg#:28071 *PROJECTS* 04/26/90 14:23:36 From: ED NISLEY To: MICHAEL DINGELDEY (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 27809 (DDT51) I think there's some DDT-51 C source code in the Files section; take a look and see if you like what you see... Basically, all EPROMburn (or however I capitalized it) does is widen the write pulse to 50 ms, so there's maybe ten lines of code in the whole mess that set/clear/test/work with that function. Not a big win! I think the only major change from TP 3 to TP 5 was making some INTEGER variables into WORDs so the signs worked out right. The compiler pointed out most of 'em right away, so it wasn't a big deal. Msg#:28291 *PROJECTS* 05/03/90 23:40:25 From: MICHAEL DINGELDEY To: ED NISLEY (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 28071 (DDT51) Thanks for the info, but my pascal is *very* rusty. After I posted my last message to you I found the source code too. Oh well. Of course this was after I converted about 75% of the code. The only question I have now is that where do -IRQ and +8031 halted go on the dip clip? I know it may sound stupid, but I haven't been able to find them in the data book..... By the way, would you (or anyone else) be familiar with an electronic scale from Electronic Scales Int'l? I have one, and it's driving me nuts trying to figure out why it behaves fine for a few days, then throws out a mushroom cloud. (It's based on an 8039). Any help (even a good luck?) would be appreciated.....Thanks. :) Msg#:28515 *PROJECTS* 05/11/90 14:45:54 From: ED NISLEY To: MICHAEL DINGELDEY (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 28291 (DDT51) The -IRQ goes to INT1 and +8031 Halted goes to T1. Because you can change which interrupt and output bit the kernel uses, I didn't use the specific names... seemed like a good idea at the time. Sorry! Don't know anything about the scale. I'd immediately suspect power problems; what are you feeding it and does the *kaboom* correlate with, say, starting your rock-crusher in the morning? Msg#:28985 *PROJECTS* 05/23/90 23:45:57 From: MICHAEL DINGELDEY To: ED NISLEY (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 28515 (DDT51) Well, I'm not operating any heavy machinery yet......As of now, I think the problems may be related more to a certain transformer which is on the board. It seems what goes in is what comes out....so until the replacement gets here, all it does it take up space in my dark(electronics)room. As to the rest of the power supply, I've had some luck in using a 2N2222 equivalent (according to the ECG guide). Apart from that and replacing the 45C08, I'll just wait and see "what happens..."! Msg#:27791 *PROJECTS* 04/19/90 09:53:19 From: PHILLIP LEWIS To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: IBM KEYBOARD TRANSLATOR RE: The article "Building an IBM PC Keyboard Translator", and your GT180 project in the Dec. 1986 issue of BYTE. I am working on an IBM keyboard translator using the '595 and '74 chips from your GT180 project, and was wondering why neither your design, or the 8052 design used an OC driver to pull the data in line low after receiving the last bit, to allow the system time to respond to the interrupt. This feature is evidently used by the IBMs, and was provided by the tech folks at Keytronics. Msg#:27882 *PROJECTS* 04/22/90 06:40:29 From: RON GRANT To: ALL Subj: PRIMITIVE EPROM PROGRAMMER Hello, ALL! Thanks for all your help with the PEP (Primitive EPROM Programer). I've finally finished the PEP and I'am having problems. I hope there's someone out there who is still familiar with this primitive beast. I will make it short and simply list my problems. 1) The -12v's to the 1488 is pulled low, down between -7.85 and -8v. is this normal? 2) Once I read an EPROM into memory I save the data to a file called Test1. I turn everything off PEP, and BASIC and again read the same EPROM saving to Test2. I then do a file compare on the two files only to find that they are different. Only once did they match. 3) After selecting #2 -> (EPROM PARTIALY ERASED) and then entering the starting page ie 00, the EPROM is sometimes automatically read into memory, starting with a screen flash then....READING PAGE 0. And at other times there is a prompt for the user to do a RESET and HIT ANY KEY TO CONT... then it starts with READING PAGE 0, Which is the right way? 4) What is the function of the 1k pot? I'd think it was to adjust the programing voltage, but it doesn't seem to do this. Here is how I connected it 1 n/c 2 () 2 REF LM317 + 2.4k to Pin 1 of jmpr + 1 ()--^^^^^^^^^^--() 3 between 150 ohm off vpp and 510 ohm to c of Q2 3 C of Q1 Thanx in ad rg. Msg#:28022 *PROJECTS* 04/25/90 02:04:43 From: OSCAR R. MITCHELL To: ALL, STEVE CIARCIA, ED NISLEY Subj: MULTIPROCES Hello Everyone, I am interested in obtaining a bibliography for good practical "hands-on" and theory concerning "Multi-Processors". I read Steve's article on the "Mandelbrot Supercomputer (part 1)", but, I would be interested in any other recommendations any of you may have. I am especially interested in the interconnect aspects (ie message passing, shared bus, tightly/loosely coupled, etc.) and in the symmetric/non-symmetric Input/Output subsystems. Again, any and all information will be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance, Oscar R. Mitchell Msg#:28084 *PROJECTS* 04/26/90 16:00:42 From: ED NISLEY To: OSCAR R. MITCHELL (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 28022 (MULTIPROCES) The IEEE has a quarterly Transactions on Parallel and Distributed Computing... it's a bit dense, but if you can scan through it in a library it might be worthwhile. Msg#:28330 *PROJECTS* 05/05/90 12:52:54 From: OSCAR R. MITCHELL To: ED NISLEY (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 28084 (MULTIPROCES) Ed, Thanks for the lead !!!! Oscar. Msg#:28067 *PROJECTS* 04/26/90 11:39:36 From: ALAIN CAILLARD To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: MICRO-DCAM do you remember this interesting project you published 6-7 years ago ? A friend of mine gave methe kit he bought from MICROMINT but he has lost the floppy containing the ilities and files. Is there a way to have a copy or you ould uipload the files on this bbs ? The kit's name is MICRO D-CAM ,IBM PC version rev 1.1 Msg#:28068 *PROJECTS* 04/26/90 11:52:17 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: ALAIN CAILLARD (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 28067 (MICRO-DCAM) The Micro Dcam was discontinued a few years ago, but I was able to find the master disk for it. When you finish reading this message, type "E" to tell the system you want to download the enclosed file. Select a protocol, then start your end. I'll also post the file in file area 2 for future reference. *Enclosed File: DCAM.ARC Msg#:28091 *PROJECTS* 04/27/90 01:51:41 From: FRANK HENRIQUEZ To: ALL Subj: SEP MOTOROLA FORMAT Has anyone modified the Serial Eprom Programmer to accept Motorola S1-S9 records? It's similar to the Intel Hex format...right now, I have a separate program that converts from Motorola to Intel, then I can download it; I'd like to get rid of that extra step. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Msg#:28267 *PROJECTS* 05/03/90 01:34:21 From: JIM STEELE To: ALL Subj: HAL-4 & AMIGA Hi All, Has any one out there done anything with the HAL-4 project and the Amiga? I've recently fininshed building one for an Amiga dealer. We'd like to use it with the Amiga.... Thanks, Jim Msg#:28291 *PROJECTS* 05/03/90 23:40:25 From: MICHAEL DINGELDEY To: ED NISLEY (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 28071 (DDT51) Thanks for the info, but my pascal is *very* rusty. After I posted my last message to you I found the source code too. Oh well. Of course this was after I converted about 75% of the code. The only question I have now is that where do -IRQ and +8031 halted go on the dip clip? I know it may sound stupid, but I haven't been able to find them in the data book..... By the way, would you (or anyone else) be familiar with an electronic scale from Electronic Scales Int'l? I have one, and it's driving me nuts trying to figure out why it behaves fine for a few days, then throws out a mushroom cloud. (It's based on an 8039). Any help (even a good luck?) would be appreciated.....Thanks. :) Msg#:28515 *PROJECTS* 05/11/90 14:45:54 From: ED NISLEY To: MICHAEL DINGELDEY (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 28291 (DDT51) The -IRQ goes to INT1 and +8031 Halted goes to T1. Because you can change which interrupt and output bit the kernel uses, I didn't use the specific names... seemed like a good idea at the time. Sorry! Don't know anything about the scale. I'd immediately suspect power problems; what are you feeding it and does the *kaboom* correlate with, say, starting your rock-crusher in the morning? Msg#:28985 *PROJECTS* 05/23/90 23:45:57 From: MICHAEL DINGELDEY To: ED NISLEY (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 28515 (DDT51) Well, I'm not operating any heavy machinery yet......As of now, I think the problems may be related more to a certain transformer which is on the board. It seems what goes in is what comes out....so until the replacement gets here, all it does it take up space in my dark(electronics)room. As to the rest of the power supply, I've had some luck in using a 2N2222 equivalent (according to the ECG guide). Apart from that and replacing the 45C08, I'll just wait and see "what happens..."! Msg#:28330 *PROJECTS* 05/05/90 12:52:54 From: OSCAR R. MITCHELL To: ED NISLEY (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 28084 (MULTIPROCES) Ed, Thanks for the lead !!!! Oscar. Msg#:28450 *PROJECTS* 05/09/90 18:38:22 From: WAYNE LEANZA To: ALL DDT-51 USERS Subj: 80C31 CONTROLLER Does anyone know how I can go about substituting a 80c31 for a 8031 in the DDT-51 system. It works fine with the NMOS version but I get lots of errors writing to target RAM with the CHMOS device. I want to run at 16MHZ but it doesn't even work at 12 MHZ. Thanx [D[D[DWayne Msg#:28521 *PROJECTS* 05/11/90 14:47:26 From: ED NISLEY To: WAYNE LEANZA (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 28450 (80C31 CONTROLLER) I've used 80C52s strapped as '31s since forever and they work fine. I wonder what's different? It would be worthwhile to take a scope and check the bus logic levels to see if everything's being driven correctly. If you've got long cables between the target system and the DDT-51 board, the CMOS drivers may not be able to handle the capacitive load. Also, the bus buffers on the DDT-51 board might be too much of a load when they're combined with the rest of your system; replacing them with HCT parts may brigng fast relief. Msg#:28864 *PROJECTS* 05/21/90 00:24:59 From: PAUL SHUBEL To: WAYNE LEANZA (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 28450 (80C31 CONTROLLER) To switch from an NMOS 8031 to a CMOS 8031 keep in mind that open inputs on the NMOS part usually float high. Please check all the inputs to the micro (especially the interrupts and serial port) and make sure they are tied high or low. This is always a "gotcha" in switching from NMOS to CMOS because CMOS devices can't tolerate having an input floating. Let me know how you make out. Bye. Msg#:28557 *PROJECTS* 05/12/90 18:19:10 From: TRENT GEMMILL To: ALL Subj: SP1000 DOES ANYONE KNOW OF A RELATIVELY EASY WAY TO INTERFACE THE SP1000 TO AN IBM PC? Msg#:28572 *PROJECTS* 05/13/90 13:27:46 From: RICHARD HEILIGER To: STEVE BLAIR (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 27281 (BASICNET V1.0) I am interested in your basicnet software it sounds like just what I need. I dont know if I am a competent C programer but would perhaps take a shot at convertint your software to C, tho it seems that with the polling speed and versatility you allready have that converting it would be unessesary. As STEVE suggested, if you advertise it I would be interested in buying. Msg#:29025 *PROJECTS* 05/25/90 02:07:44 From: STEVE BLAIR To: RICHARD HEILIGER (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 28572 (BASICNET V1.0) Alas, I have added all the bells and whistles. The devil I knois not who I thought he was. BasicNET is finished!!! I'm typing the manual now. Perhaps I should put an ad in CCI...who knows...Steve Blair Msg#:28752 *PROJECTS* 05/17/90 20:42:50 From: JOHN COHAN To: ALL Subj: A TO D CONVERSION I am building a digital thermometer that I want to hook up to my R-S model 100 via the serial port. I really don;t understand a to d theory, but I know the handheld digital thermo we now use has a 0.1 degree centigrade resolution. I assume that this requires a 12 bit digitizer for a range from -10 to 30 dgrees C. I think I saw an article on how to build a serial a to d converter in a ciarcia article somewhere. Do I need 12 or can I use 8. And who makes a serial a to d 12 bit chip? I was thinking about using the NatSemi solid state themometers, but their specs only show a 1 degree accuracy. I really need 1/2 degree or better, so I am assuming that thosesensors are out and I must use a thermistor. Am I barking up the wrong tree here? John /exit Msg#:28781 *PROJECTS* 05/18/90 18:14:41 From: ED NISLEY To: JOHN COHAN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 28752 (A TO D CONVERSION) How you figure the resolution goes like this: You want a 40 degree range, with resolution to half a degree. That gives you 80 counts, and the next higher power of two is 128... so you need a seven-bit converter. You'll not find one of those, so you use an eight-bit ADC. The ADC will expect a reference voltage (or two) which you set to match the voltages put out by your temperature sensor. For example, if 40 degrees gives you 4.000 volts, you set the high reference to 4.000 volts, which will make the ADC emit the highest binary value. Obviously, there are some tradeoffs here based on expected temperature range, what kind of circuitry you've got on the sensor, and so forth; in general, pick "nice" numbers and you'll come out ahead. For instance, if the voltage range works out to 0.657 to 3.688 volts, use 0.5 to 4.0 and make life easy on yourself... Converting the temperature to serial data may be harder than it's worth. If you're up for some assembler code, you can convert the voltage to a frequency (using one of the National V-to-F converter chips), run that into the CTS input of your serial port (for instance), and count the frequency in software. Depending on the clock rate, this may not give you enough timing resolution, but it's worth thinking about. Msg#:28786 *PROJECTS* 05/18/90 19:25:23 From: JOHN COHAN To: ED NISLEY (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 28781 (A TO D CONVERSION) Thanks Ed. What determines the accuarcy of an A/D converter. I guess the voltage reference in which case I was thinkning about using one the natsemi voltage ref chips.l John Msg#:28884 *PROJECTS* 05/21/90 09:52:40 From: ED NISLEY To: JOHN COHAN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 28786 (A TO D CONVERSION) There are three main specs you need to think about: Accuracy is how close the output is to the "ideal" output you'd get if the ADC was perfect. Repeatability determines whether you get the same output for the same input. The closely related monotonicity spec tells you whether you'll get increasing outputs for increasing inputs (which is _not_ always the case!). Resolution is the smallest input difference you can detect. Combined with the number of bits, it gives you the dynamic range of input voltages you can handle correctly. The first two also depend on the reference voltage, which must (obviously) be both accurate and stable. It's worthwhile browsing through the National Semiconductor Linear App Notes for pointers on this sort of thing. For more background, pick up a copy of The Art of Electronics (Horowitz and Hill) and Msg#:29123 *PROJECTS* 05/27/90 21:39:16 From: FRANK KUECHMANN To: JOHN COHAN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 28752 (A TO D CONVERSION) One way to avoid problems caused by using unusual parts etc is to do a straightforward design using a UART [e.g. 6402] and a parallel output AD/C [e.g. NSC A-D/C0808 {8 bit, 8 channels, something like 10,000 conversions/sec possible}]. You tie the UART to the serial port of the computer and let it do the serial-parallel conversions. I put together a simple data-logging system a few years back using an NEC8201A notebook computer similar to the RS model 100 and the above UART/AD/C combo. Worked rather well for what I was doing. Msg#:29434 *PROJECTS* 06/02/90 16:39:42 From: ROB KELLY To: FRANK KUECHMANN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 29123 (A TO D CONVERSION) John; I too had thought about doing some data acq with my model-100. I had thought about the serial interface (even bought the chips) but then decided to play around with the expansion bus. This leaves the serial port open for modem or disk drive. A serial voltmeter would have it's uses though. My Intersil Data Book has a schematic for ICL7109 12-bit A/D and IM6403 UART for the serial solution. I have mounted an ADC0804 "in" the expansion compartment. The socket has some address decoding to make things simpler. If you want to go via the expansion connector, let me know. I'll be glad to help. Msg#:29745 *PROJECTS* 06/13/90 00:25:11 From: JOHN COHAN To: FRANK KUECHMANN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 29123 (A TO D CONVERSION) I found a nice board design specifically for the model 100 (which is what I'm using) made by EME in Berkeley. It costs $170 and has 8 a/d inputs and uses the exact uart arrangement you are talking baout. Msg#:29746 *PROJECTS* 06/13/90 00:26:16 From: JOHN COHAN To: ROB KELLY (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 29434 (A TO D CONVERSION) I'd like to know more about working with the expansion port on the Model 100. How many ports are decoded? Msg#:29955 *PROJECTS* 06/17/90 20:12:11 From: ROB KELLY To: JOHN COHAN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 29746 (A TO D CONVERSION) John, This is the pinout for the expansion connector, the socket provides a select line (Y0) for ports $80-$8F. When I built my A/D circuit, I used Y0 as the only chip select. Ports $80-$83 used by Disk/Video Interface. My A/D would trip the code for the DVI and the system would hang. If you used only ports $84-$87, it would make things simpler, otherwise you have to work around the code at $7682. 1 VDD 40 VDD 2 GND 39 GND 3 AD0 38 AD1 4 AD2 37 AD3 5 AD4 36 AD5 6 AD6 35 AD7 7 A8 34 A9 8 A10 33 A11 9 A12 32 A13 10 A14 31 A15 11 GND 30 GND 12 -RD 29 -WR 13 IO/M 28 SO 14 ALE 27 SI 15 CLK 26 -Y0 16 A 25 RESET 17 INTR 24 -INTA 18 GND 23 GND 19 RAMRST 22 NC 20 NC 21 NC I can provide more info if you need it. Msg#:28754 *PROJECTS* 05/17/90 22:54:47 From: JOHN COHAN To: ALL Subj: PARA TO SER. CONV. Nat Semi makes a A/D conv. that has a 3 wire serial output. (lock, data, and chip select) Does somebody make a single chip clock generator (I guess its a baud rate gen.) that I can couple with it to make a stand alone A/D serial RS-232 data output converter. Also, do I remember a CCI article about a single chip parallel to serial converter? I want to use a 12 bit A/D converter, but I can only find a 12 bit version. John Msg#:28942 *PROJECTS* 05/22/90 00:56:02 From: ERIC BOHLMAN To: JOHN COHAN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 28754 (PARA TO SER. CONV.) The National chips don't output asynchronous serial data of the sort that RS-232 devices work with. They're synchronous; you pulse the clock line and read the data out line at each pulse, or you "clock in" input data. If you took a single-chip micro like an 8748 and added a MAX232 driver, you'd have all the logic needed to make what you want (of course, you need the serial A/D as well). You'll need to write the software, but it shouldn't be hard. Msg#:28764 *PROJECTS* 05/18/90 07:07:56 From: THOMAS E. DOYLE To: ALL Subj: NCR 5380 SCSI CHIP I am having trouble location a manual for the NCR 5380 SCSI interface chip used in the July 89 issue of Circuit Cellar. A phone number and address for NCR were listed in another issue of the magazine. I called the phone number and found it was not a valid phone number. I wrote to the address and never received a reply. I need a correct phone number and or a valid address. PLEASE HELP >>>>>>>>>>>>>. Tom Doyle Msg#:28905 *PROJECTS* 05/21/90 10:31:41 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: THOMAS E. DOYLE Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 28764 (NCR 5380 SCSI CHIP) I would strongly suggest you look at either Logic Devices or Samsung for 5380 chips rather than NCR. The specs on the data sheets are cleaner and we've been having all kinds of trouble with the NCR chips not being compatible with the latest round of SCSi hard drives. Logic Devices, Inc. 628 East Evelyn Ave. Sunnyvale, CA 94086 (408) 720-8630 Samsung Semiconductor, Inc. 3725 North First St. San Jose, CA 95134-1708 (408) 434-5400 Msg#:28947 *PROJECTS* 05/22/90 06:10:06 From: THOMAS DOYLE To: KEN DAVIDSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 28905 (NCR 5380 SCSI CHIP) Thanks for the information. Tom ...... Msg#:28767 *PROJECTS* 05/18/90 11:45:56 From: ARNOLD BERKOWITZ To: ALL Subj: VIDEO SYNC LOCK I wish to superimpose a B/W video image over computer text/graphics from my VGA board. To do this I wish to use a camera which can accept external sync from the VGA output cable. I need a circuit to mix the B/W video line into the three R,G, and B gun lines on the VGA cable. If anyone jnows how to do this and/or knows a source for the externally syncable camera call me at 800 628 9076 (lve message & I call you back). Thank you, AB Msg#:28783 *PROJECTS* 05/18/90 18:15:43 From: ED NISLEY To: ARNOLD BERKOWITZ (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 28767 (VIDEO SYNC LOCK) The short answer is that you can't get there from here. The VGA board does _not_ produce NTSC sync, so you can't just bolt the camera onto the board and have it work. For a paltry 1900 bucks you can get the "VGA Producer" from Magni Systems (800 624-6465 in Oregon). It slips into your AT clone, plugs into the RAMDAC socket (eek!), and does pretty much what you want. The review (PC Mag, 28 Nov 89, pg 43) observes that it is "an affordable alternative to high-end video-conversion hardware, this full-length board turns VGA graphics into video. A supplied remote control unit adds special effects, like fades, border control fills, and x-y positioning." Msg#:28995 *PROJECTS* 05/24/90 03:18:57 From: JOHN GROVES To: ARNOLD BERKOWITZ (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 28767 (VIDEO SYNC LOCK) You might also run down a company called Bio-Electronics in Texas. They have a product called (Ugh!) "Video Charley" that connects to the expansion connector of EGA cards to do what you need. IBM video standards (except CGA) do not sweep at the same frewuency as NTSC. Also, they are RGB signals and need to be encoded into NTSC. Why don't you investigate the Amiga. It's an NTSC animal and there are many genlock/superimposition boards available. Blows the AT away. John Groves Msg#:29330 *PROJECTS* 05/31/90 19:40:38 From: DUB DUBLIN To: ARNOLD BERKOWITZ (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 28767 (VIDEO SYNC LOCK) 01: Here are a few things you might want to check out for you video overlay 02: needs - I've been kicking around the idea of doing something similar 03: myself. Unfortunately, these things tend to be a little on the pricey 04: side, although they cost only a fraction of what they cost a year ago.05: First place to try is US Video, they have a "recordable" VGA adapter that 06: produces composite video output, and an optional Genlock overlay module if 07: you need to overlay your graphics on an external video source. You can 08: reach them at:09: USVideo10: 1801 W. Larchmont Ave.11: Chicago, IL 6061312: (312) 549-003013: (312) 549-6477 Fax14: (800) 535-3252 for orders (I ordered info here)15: 16: The other outfit you might want to try is Willow Peripherals, they make a 17: board called VGA-TV that sells for $699:18: Willow Peripherals19: 190 Willow Ave20: Bronx, NY 10454 (212) 402-0010 (800) 444-1585 [Sorry about the loss of formatting, I got hung up on, and it was easier just to grab it off the screen than to retype it] Anyway, the July 24, 89 PCWeek had a review of both of these (and a VGA to NTSC converter box as well) and they seemed to prefer the USVideo card. It costs more ($799) but apparently looks much better and is easier to use. Msg#:29331 *PROJECTS* 05/31/90 19:44:37 From: DUB DUBLIN To: ARNOLD BERKOWITZ (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 28767 (VIDEO SYNC LOCK) Another thought: do you REALLY _NEED_ to overlay the graphics and video? If you can live with them both just simply being on the screen at the same time, (picture-in-picture style), then there are some much lower cost solutions - I will probably wind up using DAK's little $99 PIP unit to do just this. If you can live without real overlay you can save righteous bux. Msg#:28856 *PROJECTS* 05/20/90 19:13:35 From: STEVEN HARGUS To: BILL JAMIESON Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 26737 (ELECTRO-NET) The network that uses the AC line is called CARRIER-NET. BYTE reviewed it some time ago, and the company ran an ad somewhere, Byte, i think. Let me know if you need me to find it for you. Msg#:28926 *PROJECTS* 05/21/90 17:50:26 From: MARK CARTER To: SYSOP (Rcvd) Subj: GERNERAL I have your old LIS'NER 1000 VOICE RECOGNITION system for the COMMODORE C-64. I have a pretty decent 68000 system that runs SK-DOS with a set of Humbug proms in it. It was fetured In the Radio Electronics magazine some time back. Do you have in one of your files areas a text or other type of file the a comminted coded listing of the Machine codes for the 6502 cpu speed dependant routeens. Because I have a little time befor my college classes restart for the college summer term. Ans I would like to write my own hand assembled reassembled code for the 68000 on my small 68000 system. It just run to slow on a humbule 1 Mhz 6510 CPU it does crudly recognice voice commands but. It will work the table templates much better if it is running on a 16 Mhz 68000 or 68020 CPU. I have both types of cpu working now. Can you or any one else help me with this project. What ever I accomplish I will share with you or any one else. Thank you for your time and trubble. Mark A. Carter. Msg#:28951 *PROJECTS* 05/22/90 08:40:09 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: MARK CARTER (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 28926 (GERNERAL) I don't even think we have the C64 Lis'ner source code in-house let alone available to post. I did the Apple version, but the C64 version was written out of house (I don't even know by whom). I haven't seen it being used around here in years. I'm afraid you're on your own with this one. Msg#:28984 *PROJECTS* 05/23/90 23:39:16 From: TERRY L RUPPE To: KEN DAVIDSON (Rcvd) Subj: BCC25 Ken, I wonder if you could answer a few quesions about the BCC25? First is there a software driver wrote so it will work with the BCC180? I would like to use the 8x40 LCD for text display and the keyboard port for data entry, and would like to have the ability to easily position the cursor, clear screen, ect. If a driver hasn't been wrote do you have plans to offer one in the near future or what would it cost to have one devel- oped. Also I received literature on the RTC180- Where is the 128 Bytes of EEPROM tucked away at. I'm not familiar with an EEPROM that small. Thanks Terry L Ruppe Msg#:29003 *PROJECTS* 05/24/90 11:23:52 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: TERRY L RUPPE (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 28984 (BCC25) I have some sample code that demonstrates how to initialize and use the LCD, but we don't have a utility ROM containing plug-and-go software. We may at some point, but there isn't anything firm right now. I can give you what code I have if you're interested. The EEPROM is a National 9346 1024-bit part. It comes in an 8-pin package and you talk to it serially. We use the clocked serial port on the HD64180 to interface to it. The only drawback is that you need a fair amount of support software. Msg#:29022 *PROJECTS* 05/24/90 23:54:37 From: TERRY L RUPPE To: KEN DAVIDSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 29003 (BCC25) Ken, Thanks for the reply. Is your code in BASIC or ASSEMBLY? Either way I'd be interested in seeing it. Do you want to post it on the board or mail it? I'm sure theres probably others who would be interested also. So thats where the EEPROM was hiding. I looked at the picture of the board and couldn't figure out where it was. It does sound difficult to design with though. Thanks for the info. Terry L Ruppe Msg#:29019 *PROJECTS* 05/24/90 22:49:09 From: MUMTAZ M.RAHI To: ALL Subj: MARCH 87 MASTER REMOTE CONTROLLER I WOULD LIKE TO FIND OUT HOW ICAN GET THE LISTING OF THE ASSEMBLY CODE (80C31) WRITTEN FOR THE TRAINABLE INFRARED MASTER CONTROLLER (MAR 87 BYTE) I LOOKED IN THE OLD CC PROJECT LIST AVAILABLE ON CC BBS BUT COULD NOT FIND IT THERE. ANY HELP FROM ANYONE WILL BE APPRECIATED. Q Msg#:29057 *PROJECTS* 05/25/90 14:54:15 From: ED NISLEY To: MUMTAZ M.RAHI Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 29019 (MARCH 87 MASTER REMOTE CONTROLLER) The 8031 source code is available under a licensing agreement from Circuit Cellar Incorporated; it's not generally available. Msg#:29073 *PROJECTS* 05/25/90 22:30:38 From: R MICHAEL MCMAHON To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: CD-ROM Steve: I'v been following (and building) your projects for many years, since your days at BYTE. One interesting project I have been thinking about, and playing with, is to make a CD-ROM drive from a stereo CD player using a SCSI interface to my PC. I've not had much success finding specs on the internals of a CD player in order to make this conversion. As I understand it, the binary info. is simply read using the laser, and passed through a D/A converter to produce sound. Of course the CD-ROM would prefer the data in binary form. Any suggestions for such a task? -> Mike McMahon ......................... ... ...-.... Msg#:29203 *PROJECTS* 05/29/90 14:11:04 From: STEVE CIARCIA To: R MICHAEL MCMAHON Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 29073 (CD-ROM) I'd probably just buy a real unit but Jeff Bachiochi of the CC INK staff has been looking into doing exactly what you suggest. --Steve Msg#:29213 *PROJECTS* 05/29/90 17:34:56 From: SCOTT WOOD To: R MICHAEL MCMAHON Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 29073 (CD-ROM) Michael, for what it's worth, I saw an artical in Electronic Design (circa Fall '89) concerning hacking an audio CD-ROM player. The idea was to add digital filtering by routing the data stream through a simple DSP circuit. The players seem very straight forward in design, but are optimised for sequential playback (they have SLOW seek times) which would be a trade-off for computer use. I'm amazed cheaper (<500$) CD-ROMS for computer systems are not available, but I'm sure it's a matter of supply + demand -- but the market's getting there... At any rate, this artical detailed how to get the data out -- the rest is up to you! I guess by the time you get a SCSI interface and misc hours of hackin' and debuggin' you're better off buying OTS. That is of course un- less someone figures out a cheap and dirty wizz-banger and graces us all with an INK artical...there's always that chance. Either way I'm interested also :). Hey, if you find that artical post (or Email) the date for us eh? Regards, Scott Msg#:29076 *PROJECTS* 05/25/90 23:33:10 From: CHAD BEARDEN To: ALL DDT-51 GURUS Subj: DDT-51 NOISE PROBLEM, MAYBE.. Well, I know this may be hard to believe but my partner and myself have been working on the DDT-51 since late last year. Everything was going pretty good until we got to the last "TESTER" test, aka the evil Target/Debug RAM excercise. It seems that 8 locations of the Target RAM gets trashed after the Debug Ram is written to. For example, if you write to and then read from the Target Ram everything checks out, but if you write to the Target and then Write to the Debug 8 address's seem fail the verify. 8 addresses of the Target Ram that is, the Debug Ram checks out fine. The 8 addresses are 01FF - 07FF. I would appreciate any information leading to apprehension of this bug. Thank you. Msg#:29189 *PROJECTS* 05/29/90 12:33:58 From: ED NISLEY To: CHAD BEARDEN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 29076 (DDT-51 NOISE PROBLEM, MAYBE..) Unless I miss my guess, you've got glitches on the cable between the PC's parallel port and the DDT-51. Are you using the (flat, interleaved ground) cable described in the manual or a (round, standard) printer cable? What happens is that when the data port goes from "input" to "output" the data lines get a surge of current that can induce a glitch in the lines controlling the system latches. That puts a glitch on the Write lines to the RAM and (natch) writes trash into the RAM at the most recent address. The problem is pattern-sensitive; as you might expect, all those "F" lines give you the most current. If you're using a (nice) flat cable, it should be maybe three feet long; more than that and you'll need to add a diode to U8.36 to clamp the ringing that occurs because the cable isn't terminated in its characteristic impedance (the 8255 is a rotten line receiver; next time we'll make it work with a mile of cable!). Msg#:29360 *PROJECTS* 06/01/90 00:40:02 From: CHAD BEARDEN To: ED NISLEY (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 29189 (DDT-51 NOISE PROBLEM, MAYBE..) Well you might have hit the nail on the head, er uh.. cable that is. Yes, I am using a shielded "printer type" cable. Now, let me find some flat cable and I'll fix it, thank you. Msg#:29390 *PROJECTS* 06/01/90 12:17:20 From: ED NISLEY To: CHAD BEARDEN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 29360 (DDT-51 NOISE PROBLEM, MAYBE..) Remember the interleaved grounds! You can't just clamp an IDC connector on each end; that's no better than the round cable. Take a look at the pinouts and you'll see where the trouble crops up... Msg#:29131 *PROJECTS* 05/28/90 09:39:14 From: THOMAS BLACK To: RANDY RAUSTAD Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 26466 (DDT51) Sounds like the kernal program has been trashed or perhaps you have a hardware problem. Run the diagnostic program - if anything fails or looks flakey then fix it! Even an intermittant failure during these tests are a sure sign of trouble!! One thing that you must do that is not clearly documented (it is, but it isn't) is that you must disable the Write line to the Target CPU's ROM (which now has ram in it) after kernal has been loaded. I have a little jumper that I move whenever I send the Kernal Code. If you don't do this, everything may appear to work, yet parts of kernal will be corrupted as soon as your program is loaded or executed. I'm located in Sacramento and don't mind talking to you, but you will have to pay for any telephone calls. I'm hard to reach, but 7:30PM to 9:30PM are usually good times, else leave a message and I'll call collect. Do not leave messages to me on this BBS - I don't log on often. Msg#:29192 *PROJECTS* 05/29/90 12:35:33 From: ED NISLEY To: THOMAS BLACK Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 29131 (DDT51) Well, the reason we don't emphasize disabling the "ROM" write line is that you may very well want to write data into the RAM that's really in the system. If you're pulling a jumper out, make sure the 8031 is reset while you do it! The Debug RAM on the DDT-51 board can be trashed by an errant program, which is why KERNEL and DEBUG31 each keep track of the interrupt count: if that's bad, there's no telling what else got mashed. Write-protecting the "ROM" is a good idea, but if your code runs wild, there's lots of other things that it can destroy... Msg#:29497 *PROJECTS* 06/04/90 08:08:40 From: BOB PADDOCK To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: DATA LOGGER Your comment in your Data Logger article reminded me of one things "that drives you positively nuts". Some thing I learned the hard expensive way is that when trouble shotting a circuit that has the RS-232 connector hooked up, is make sure that you know how the power supply of the RS-232-Computer is wired! I was working on a PC board that was supposedly isolated from the AC line by its power transformer. I touched my scope probe to the board and **BANG**! After saying a few words of thanks about safety glasses, and picking the shrapnel out of my hair. I sat there wondering how that happened. I come to find out that the Epson Equity computer that I was using has its RS-232-pin-7-logic-ground tied to its AC Neutral line. I had a path back trough the building wiring to my supposedly isolated circuit. Does any one know if this is a common thing to do (Tie Logic Ground to AC Neutral) in computers, or is this just A Dumb Thing that Epson did? I think you you missed covering (or did I miss you covering it?) some thing important in Figure-4 for the fixed-interval trigger. That is that the two unused sections of the 4070 are not show as being tied off to GND or +3V. The schematic leads you to believe they are not connected at all. I'm sure that we both know that it is an absolute must to NEVER leave a floating input on a CMOS gate when trying to get the absolute minimum power consumption, but some of the magazine readers might not realize this. Also some thing else that I noticed, some thing that my drafting teacher kept pounding into my head, is that the longest plate of the battery is always the positive end (The 8.4V NiCad pack and the Solar Cells of the Light Intensity sensor are shown with revers polarity), and that the curved end of a capacitor, whether it was polarized or not, went to the most negative potential [ground in this case] (The 33pF caps on the MM5369AA). Was my drafting teacher wrong? Msg#:29508 *PROJECTS* 06/04/90 09:06:24 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: BOB PADDOCK (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 29497 (DATA LOGGER) Oops. You're right about the battery. I probably should have picked up on that. The long end is always the positive terminal. As for the cuved end of the caps, that's something we've never worried about much when representing nonpolarized caps. Aesthetically speaking, you are correct, but how the circuit is ultimately wired doesn't depend on it. Msg#:29516 *PROJECTS* 06/04/90 15:27:08 From: DALE NASSAR To: BOB PADDOCK (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 29497 (DATA LOGGER) Did you say the RS-232 ground was connected to AC NEUTRAL? This could be a very hazardous situation considering that many households have NEUTRAL and HOT reversed!! :-( --Dale Msg#:29527 *PROJECTS* 06/05/90 07:27:20 From: BOB PADDOCK To: DALE NASSAR (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 29516 (DATA LOGGER) Yep, thats what I said. I even went and checked several other Epson computers around the plant here, they were all the same way. All we have is Epsons so I don't have any thing else to compair to. Msg#:29586 *PROJECTS* 06/06/90 20:47:42 From: TIMOTHY TAYLOR To: BOB PADDOCK (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 29497 (DATA LOGGER) This is off the top of my head, but I *think* the spec for RS-232c seez that 7 is signal ground and 1 is tied to earth ground. Some folks (maybe most) leave out pin 1 entirely. Also, there's a lot of folks out there that I've seen connect 1 and 7 together. Most equipment seems to connect 7 to signal ground which a lot of time ultimately gets connected to chassis ground, thus also earth ground. I don't see a big problem in this. I have seen many a house (new and old) that have hot and neutral reversed. Ground however, is a rarity to have reversed with the hot lead. If it is, you'll have discovered the problem well before you plug in your communications gear. Years ago I worked for a company that routinely tied earth ground and neutral together at the supply - when the system was plugged into an improperly wired outlet, many, many, bad things happened - I still think that system lies in a corner somewhere. So, after much rambling, I don't think it's a wise thing to connect neutral to chassis (or signal) ground. The outlet's gotta be perfect or look out ! Msg#:29790 *PROJECTS* 06/14/90 11:48:07 From: STEVE CIARCIA To: BOB PADDOCK (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 29497 (DATA LOGGER) The unused pins were indeed tied to ground. I just forgot to mention it. Regarding long and short lines on batteries, there are people (believe it or not) that think the convention is the other way and that the long line designates the large "Earth" sink when that pole is ground reference. Since I can't seem to agree with either I physically put a + sign so I don't screw it up. And, since I tend to use two straight lines for caps, polarized ot not, direction is mute. --STeve Msg#:29839 *PROJECTS* 06/15/90 07:46:11 From: BOB PADDOCK To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 29790 (DATA LOGGER) Does the convention change when 'they' send a battery to Jupiter? :-) Msg#:29894 *PROJECTS* 06/15/90 20:04:00 From: ED NISLEY To: KEN DAVIDSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 29508 (DATA LOGGER) I think that capacitor symbol dates back to the old Leyden jar days; the curved symbol was the foil wrapped around the outside of the jar... which ought to be close to ground if you have any sense at all! On the other hand, the foil on the inside of the jar was curved, too, so what 'cha gonna do? Msg#:29686 *PROJECTS* 06/10/90 22:22:10 From: JAMES O'SULLIVAN To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: HAL ELECTRODES Hi Steve, Can you suggest a specific source for non-disposable EEG electrodes? I have not been able to locate any locally. Thanks! Msg#:29801 *PROJECTS* 06/14/90 13:06:24 From: STEVE CIARCIA To: JAMES O'SULLIVAN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 29686 (HAL ELECTRODES) Sorry, Jim, we haven't come across electrodes that weren't spare parts for commercial machines. You DON't want to know what those cost. Just remember what hospital costs are these days. --Steve Msg#:29963 *PROJECTS* 06/18/90 05:41:17 From: MICHAEL MANDAP To: ALL 8051 FOLKS Subj: A NEW 8051 CROSS ASSEMBLER To anyone interested, I found a need for quick and CHEAP assembler for the 8051. Since I am just a broke college student, I decided it would be a great idea (and learning experience) to just write my own assembler. And that's what I did. I originally wrote it in Turbo Pascal 5.0 but eventually rewrote the whole thing in Turbo C 2.0. It worked great (at least to me) and I optimized it with Turbo Assembler. Since I've been pretty busy with other projects though, I never really got around to polishing it up. If any one would be interested, I'd really like some input as well as some impetus to finish it up before I offer it to all and anyone interested. So, if anyone is interested in helping me validate it and give me some ideas on how to make it a relocatable code generating assembler, please drop me a message. Please note though, that I don't log on this board all that often. But I will check for messages for the next two weeks after this posting. Here's some info on it: It generates only absolute code in intel hex format. No macros yet. Generates a listing if you want. Syntax is standard (unlike pseudosam's version)...and actually is modeled after Signetics assembler. Symbol table generation enabled. And if my test's (with the demo versions I had) are correct, are several times FASTER than Avocet and Signetics assemblers. Thanks. Oh yeah, I'm located in Irvine, (Orange county) and Culver City, (Los Angeles) so local input is greatly appreciated (can't really afford the phone bills...sorry). Msg#:29985 *PROJECTS* 06/18/90 13:42:27 From: ED NISLEY To: MICHAEL MANDAP (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 29963 (A NEW 8051 CROSS ASSEMBLER) OK, all you folks who think the current crop of assemblers on the board don't do what you want... now's the time to sound off and get in on the ground floor! However, Michael, I suspect that most BBSers here are reasonably content with the assemblers in the Files section. You might want to grab a couple of them and see they put out the same code as your program; a quick and dirty was is to create a test file with one example of each opcode in it. Msg#:30107 *PROJECTS* 06/22/90 12:57:11 From: LOU WILLIAMS To: ALL Subj: IR CONTROL i was thinking about building an ir repeater system useing the x-10 method or some other line current carrier system. if anybody has any ideas, please let me know. thanks Msg#:30131 *PROJECTS* 06/23/90 16:23:34 From: WAYNE LEANZA To: ALLDDT-51 USERS Subj: FASTER IC'S BUFFERS First of all, Thanx to all for the comments on using the 80C31 at 16MHZ I actually got it to work but had to replace IC5 and IC6 (the 74LS245's ) with 74S241's and had to use an unused inverter to invert the controls no no not controls but Data from 8031 line (pin 19) . The other buffers worked OK as is. IC5 and IC6are the multiplexed address and data lines so I guess they liked being driven faster as they pass twice as much data in the same time period. Before I did this I could not download my program reliably. Happy DDT-51ing Wayne Msg#:30328 *PROJECTS* 06/29/90 01:12:11 From: DAVE EWEN To: WAYNE LEANZA (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 30131 (FASTER IC'S BUFFERS) Why not s245's ? How about als ? f ? Msg#:30186 *PROJECTS* 06/25/90 15:33:34 From: MICHAEL MONNEY To: SYSOP (Rcvd) Subj: CPM EMULATOR I have down loaded the CPM emulator file from this BBS in order to be able to use the disk based BASIC 180 compiler. Everything seems to work but the "WINDOW" statements, indeed I can not get the setup program to properly intialize to work on a IBM PC. I have called the people at SOFTAIDS & they suggested that the emulator could be the source of the trouble. Did anybody you know tried to write code for the BCC 180 using the disk based compiler with this emulator. I would appreciate any help on this because the ROM base version of BASIC 180 is too limited in terms of code size for my applications. Are there other CPM emulators available which were tested under those conditions ? Msg#:30188 *PROJECTS* 06/25/90 16:02:16 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: MICHAEL MONNEY (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 30186 (CPM EMULATOR) The compiler has to know how to control the cursor on whatever terminal you're using to talk to it. In the case of the emulator, it mimics a VT52 terminal, so you must install the BASIC for a VT52. The documentation for the emulator has all the necessary control codes for you to do the installation. Just a note on the emulator's use, though: Z80MU emulates a Z80 processor. The compiler itself will run just fine on a Z80, so runs fine under the emulator. The compiled object code is meant to be run on an HD64180, though, so we can't guarantee that compiled code will run under a Z80 emulator. The intended use of the emulator is to compile the code. You should transfer the compiled code to either the BCC180 or the RTC180 for execution. Msg#:30344 *PROJECTS* 06/29/90 11:48:01 From: DOUG MCINTYRE To: ALL Subj: RTC 51 PROBLEMS. Having a weird problem with an RTC51 kit.. Apparently weird memory problem. Basic comes back with INVALID LINE NUMBER for any command that would use memory. (Ie. storing lines of program, a for loop in command mode) Also MTOP is not set. (?MTOP => 0) XTAL was previously not set, but apparently all of a sudden it is set now.. Could this be from the fact the mail order house sent me 43256 chips instead of the 62256 I ordered? Memory access apparently is working, as I can set/and retrieve values with the xby() function.. I'm using it with two 32kx8 SRAMs and a battery backed up socket for the program slot, per the application note.. Msg#:30347 *PROJECTS* 06/29/90 13:29:09 From: JEFF BACHIOCHI To: DOUG MCINTYRE (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 30344 (RTC 51 PROBLEMS.) Doug, The 43256 is just NECs way of saying 32kx8! I'll assume you mean RTC-52 (not 51 cause there ain't no such animal with BASIC). Whenever BASIC can't locate and test RAM correctly it will have problems with any function dealing with RAM. If you are using 64k of RAM pull the upper one out for now. Check the jumpers which configure the lower 32k memory socket. Make sure you've indicated your using 32k RAM on JP7 (jumper to the left), JP5 (jumper to the left), and JP6 (jumper to the right). For now just enable the lowest 8k on JP8 (0000H) other three enables off. This is the simplest configuration. After reseting the board, check MTOP if it is not 8191 (1FFFH) then check for solder shorts or un soldered connections on the bottom of the board. A scope or logic probe can help indicate an open/shorted address/data line. Once the board works OK with 8k enabled, go for adding more. If an address line(s) are shorted the processor will be fooled in to thinking it has more or less than expected! This is what usually gets you rolling in the wrong direction. jeff Msg#:30370 *PROJECTS* 06/30/90 13:46:13 From: DOUG MCINTYRE To: JEFF BACHIOCHI (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 30347 (RTC 51 PROBLEMS.) RE: RTC52 kit weirdness.. I've tracked this problem down to a weird smart socket.. The signal going in on pin 20(CE\) to the smart socket, is not what the smart socket is presenting to the 43256... If I take out the smart socket, everything is working okay.. I don't have a scope to see exactly what is happening, but the logic probe says there is a major differnce.. I've got enough volts going in (5.08) so that the smart socket should be invisable to the circuit, not cutting on low power or anything.. I'll try getting another smart socket here.. Strange though.. Msg#:30401 *PROJECTS* 07/02/90 08:40:19 From: JEFF BACHIOCHI To: DOUG MCINTYRE (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 30370 (RTC 51 PROBLEMS.) Doug, Be aware, my NEC data book shows in standby (battery backed) mode the 43256 requires 2ma, the -L requires 100uA. This means your smartsocket will last about 1 week @ 2mA and about 10 weeks @ 100uA. These are maximum currents so it could last a bit longer. This is not one of the recommended chips. Dallas's 1988 Data book lists a SONY CXK58255P as the only 32kx8 static RAM available with a 1uA standby current. Admittedly, much has happened since '88, but you must check the specs carefully! The Smart Socket can supply 35mA hours of standby current. Take a 2mA hour RAM, and divide that into 35 mA hours and you get 17.5 hours -- not good! At 100uA, that's 350 hours. There is 8766 hours in a year, so you can see what small currents are required. When system power is applied, the Smart Socket should look invisible. What size pull-ups are on the '156, should be 10k! jeff Msg#:30471 *PROJECTS* 07/03/90 18:08:46 From: DOUG MCINTYRE To: JEFF BACHIOCHI (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 30401 (RTC 51 PROBLEMS.) Hmm. Like I said the mail order house sent me these after I did order the 62256 cmos type ram chips.. I should bitch to them, but they probably don't have the 62256 if they sent me these.. The pull-ups are indeed 10k on the decoder.. Since I can't get a smart socket locally (unless I go down and wait until every comercial customer gets waited on first at any of the large supply houses, usually takes about an hour.. :-( I'll bitch to the mail order house I got it from originally.. Msg#:30529 *PROJECTS* 07/06/90 08:18:08 From: JEFF BACHIOCHI To: DOUG MCINTYRE (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 30471 (RTC 51 PROBLEMS.) Doug, If the RAM and Smart Socket were ordered together and specified as a set, then B*TCH to 'em. If you just ordered a CMOS RAM, tht's what you got! jeff ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Msg#:30396 *PROJECTS* 07/02/90 01:49:21 From: BRYON MADGE To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: KEYBOARDS steve, here are a few questions I hope you will help me with. If I were to decode a keyboard, say 30-40 keys, what is the proper way to do it? Do I feed the matrix to an 8255 and have the software look for a keypress and subsequent value? Or should I include some keypress circuitry and just request an interupt and then have the 8031 process it from there? It seems as though the INT. route is the way to go, but requires more hardware. What are your thoughts on this? ; Also, what is the significance of using a crystal with a value of 11.0592 as opposed to 12.0 MHZ in an 8031 system? ; One more thing that I think others might be interested in, is how about a service offered by CCI whereby we send you a schematic and get back a high quality silkscreened/drilled PCB? Do you think this would be a practical solution to a lot of hackers problems, or do you see it as another possible head-ache that CCI doesn't need? Thanks for your time. regards, BM. Msg#:30410 *PROJECTS* 07/02/90 09:14:21 From: JEFF BACHIOCHI To: BRYON MADGE (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 30396 (KEYBOARDS) Bryon, The difference is a s simple as you suggest. In a straight matrix all the work is in the software and you must have some processor overhead for the polling routines. If you can provide a key-press INT, your hardware becomes more complicated, but your software is simplified. So the decision depends on the project and/or whether you prefer the soldering iron over source code. 11.0592 is the default XTAL for 8052 BASIC! Thanks Intel! Do you think individuals could afford Enginerring time for PCB layouts and Prototyping costs for PCBs? I think not! Many times the simplest boards can cost $1000. You can save bucks by doing the PCB layout yourself and providing a proto house with a Gerber Photo-plot file. If you can wait 4-8wks, there are some cheap PCB fabricators. The best cost effective idea for small projects is hand wiring! jeff Msg#:30420 *PROJECTS* 07/02/90 12:04:49 From: ED NISLEY To: BRYON MADGE (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 30396 (KEYBOARDS) For a 40-key keyboard, a separate encoder makes a lot of sense; in fact, you might call up a keyboard manufacturer and see what they've got ready for you to use. The 8051s divide the crystal to get the serial bit rate. 11.059 MHz divides right down to exactly the right rates; 12.000 MHz doesn't. It's pretty ugly, but it works. Msg#:30434 *PROJECTS* 07/02/90 23:31:33 From: BRYON MADGE To: JEFF BACHIOCHI (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 30410 (KEYBOARDS) JEFF, Thanks for your reply. By the sounds of it, one way is as good as the other... or as bad.(?) About the PCB idea, I guess I didn't realize what was involved in making single quantity PCBs. I just thought that for someone who was set up for the task, it wouldn't be that much of a problem, what with $5000.00 autorouters and all. I guess I'll just carry on with the wirewrapping for a while. thanks, BM. Msg#:30436 *PROJECTS* 07/02/90 23:43:30 From: BRYON MADGE To: ED NISLEY (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 30420 (KEYBOARDS) thanks for your help Ed, maybe an off-the-shelf keyboard as you suggest would be the way to go. Sounds like it could be big $ though. Do you have any suppliers in mind? How about these keyboard encoder chips such as the AY5-3600? Have you ever incorporated these into projects, or have you used seperate components to do the scanning/decoding? thanks, BM. Msg#:30623 *PROJECTS* 07/09/90 12:47:46 From: ED NISLEY To: BRYON MADGE (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 30436 (KEYBOARDS) Hmmm... there's always the tradeoff between big bucks and big inconvenience; that's what tradeoffs are all about! I've used the keyboard encoders, but most of the projects around here are small enough that a simple raw keyboard is easy enough to scan. At the point where you think of using a handful of parts to "do the scan" is when you should get an encoder and be done with it! Msg#:30734 *PROJECTS* 07/13/90 10:09:50 From: STEVE CIARCIA To: BRYON MADGE (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 30396 (KEYBOARDS) I agree with Ed. Scanning takes time. It's a trade off between that and the cost of the encoder chip. Since I like simplified software,., I alwys come down on the side of adding the chip. Of course, for a 4x4 matrix, software may be better. --Steve Msg#:30401 *PROJECTS* 07/02/90 08:40:19 From: JEFF BACHIOCHI To: DOUG MCINTYRE (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 30370 (RTC 51 PROBLEMS.) Doug, Be aware, my NEC data book shows in standby (battery backed) mode the 43256 requires 2ma, the -L requires 100uA. This means your smartsocket will last about 1 week @ 2mA and about 10 weeks @ 100uA. These are maximum currents so it could last a bit longer. This is not one of the recommended chips. Dallas's 1988 Data book lists a SONY CXK58255P as the only 32kx8 static RAM available with a 1uA standby current. Admittedly, much has happened since '88, but you must check the specs carefully! The Smart Socket can supply 35mA hours of standby current. Take a 2mA hour RAM, and divide that into 35 mA hours and you get 17.5 hours -- not good! At 100uA, that's 350 hours. There is 8766 hours in a year, so you can see what small currents are required. When system power is applied, the Smart Socket should look invisible. What size pull-ups are on the '156, should be 10k! jeff Msg#:30471 *PROJECTS* 07/03/90 18:08:46 From: DOUG MCINTYRE To: JEFF BACHIOCHI (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 30401 (RTC 51 PROBLEMS.) Hmm. Like I said the mail order house sent me these after I did order the 62256 cmos type ram chips.. I should bitch to them, but they probably don't have the 62256 if they sent me these.. The pull-ups are indeed 10k on the decoder.. Since I can't get a smart socket locally (unless I go down and wait until every comercial customer gets waited on first at any of the large supply houses, usually takes about an hour.. :-( I'll bitch to the mail order house I got it from originally.. Msg#:30529 *PROJECTS* 07/06/90 08:18:08 From: JEFF BACHIOCHI To: DOUG MCINTYRE (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 30471 (RTC 51 PROBLEMS.) Doug, If the RAM and Smart Socket were ordered together and specified as a set, then B*TCH to 'em. If you just ordered a CMOS RAM, tht's what you got! jeff Msg#:30426 *PROJECTS* 07/02/90 15:24:10 From: WAYNE LEANZA To: ALL DDT-51 USERS Subj: DDT-51 WITH LABELS all ddt-51 users, I succeeded in uploading my modified files but found that I uploaded an improved version which didn't work. So I have uploaded the original slower version with more comments to make it easier to follow . Also note that I wrote it to work with the pseudosam assembler and I ahve no idea whether it will work with the *.lst files created by other assemblers. It assumes the symbol table is at the end of the file after the first blank line it further assumes thet there are 65 lines maximum of symbols. It also makes assumptions about which column hte hex address appears in and where the text you want to see starts. It is nice because you can ask for a break pooint without knowing the address of the instruction. and it shows the program from the source code (including comments) line by line. The disadvantage is it takes more time to create the rem.lst file and more time to find the symbol table. I also changed hte Lcall in the kernel routine to an Acall to the INT1 vector location in order to save one byte and improve the chances that a breakpoint wont mess up any code that you need to leave alone. An enterprising soul could modfiy the program further to display your variable names and there values by making use of the symbolarray and the brkfnd routine. Bye 4 now Wayne Msg#:30435 *PROJECTS* 07/02/90 23:41:20 From: DAVE HAWTHORNE To: ALL Subj: CCSP Does anyone have an intelligent terminal program that they would recomend for up/downloading EPROM data to/from disk? Thanx. Msg#:30461 *PROJECTS* 07/03/90 08:45:27 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: DAVE HAWTHORNE (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 30435 (CCSP) I've always found Procomm to work nicely. There is a version posted in one of the IBM PC file areas here. Msg#:30849 *PROJECTS* 07/17/90 22:19:41 From: DAVE HAWTHORNE To: KEN DAVIDSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 30461 (CCSP) Thanx much. I use USR Telpac for modem communications, but it does not support communications via a normal Com port (or at least not my version). Msg#:30516 *PROJECTS* 07/05/90 14:44:07 From: TOM NICKEL To: ALL Subj: DDT51/HELP! Hello and thanks in advance .. I'm having a problem with the TASM27 compiler from the Ciarcia BBS. It seems that the assembler cannot recognize an "ACALL" out of the range of 2000 bytes. In other words, the assembler will accept a "ACALL" which is out of range and produce no error message so that the code, when run, jumps into "LA-LA-LAND", never to return! Any one else experience this problem? Maybe there is a newer version of TASM27? Problem number 2: I'm trying to write a service routine that will constantly refresh a VT-100 screen with data inputs from various I/O devices. I'd like the user to have the option of entering an input such as a "1" or "Q" or whatever. It seems that th e VT-100 is so busy when running at 9600 baud as well as "CTRS" and "CTRQ"'ing that I can't get the RTC51 to listen to the polled keyboard. I thought I might try an interrupt driven routine but when I start playing with code such as "CLR EA" and "SETB EA" or "CLR/SETB SI" the debugger (debug31) goes crazy and I loose control. Any ideas? .. Suggestions? Thanks again .. Tom Nickel Msg#:30595 *PROJECTS* 07/09/90 01:27:19 From: BRAD NOTLAW To: TOM NICKEL (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 30516 (DDT51/HELP!) Hi Tom-- Yeah, my copy of TASM (Version 2.7.3) has a bug. Get the source, go into "macro.c" and find this line: if((aval & 0xff00) != (pcx & 0xff00)){ ...and replace it with this: *opcode |= ((aval & 0x700) >> 3); if((aval & 0xf800) != (pcx & 0xf800)){ That'll take care of the problem when ACALL is out-of-range. --Brad Msg#:30620 *PROJECTS* 07/09/90 11:39:04 From: TOM NICKEL To: BRAD NOTLAW (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 30595 (DDT51/HELP!) Thanks, Brad .. I was going crazy for a while on that one. I though it was something that I was doing. Where can one get a copy of the macro.c file? Thanks again .. Tom Nickel Msg#:30630 *PROJECTS* 07/09/90 12:51:34 From: ED NISLEY To: TOM NICKEL (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 30516 (DDT51/HELP!) Remember that DDT-51 isn't an in-circuit emulator, so you've got to cooperate with it... it can't work miracles. DDT-51 needs interrupts to handle breakpoints, single stepping, and suchlike. So, when you turn the interrupts off, or clobber the RAM or control bits it's using, you've pretty much guaranteed a World of Hurt for your code. The same sort of thing happens if you try to single-step an interrupt handler that collides with the DDT-51 resources. If the 8031 is busy with your interrupt, and it's at the same or higher priority (there are just two priorities!) as the DDT-51 interrupt, DDT-51 can't get control again. Poof! As a rule of thumb, debugging interrupt handlers is tricky no matter what CPU and debugger you're using. If at all possible, treat the handler as a subroutine you call every trip round the main loop... then convert it to a real interrupt handler which doesn't need debugging. Msg#:30641 *PROJECTS* 07/09/90 23:46:34 From: BRAD NOTLAW To: TOM NICKEL (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 30620 (DDT51/HELP!) Tom Anderson sells it thru Speech Technology, Inc. 837 Front Street South Issaquah, WA 98072 (206)392-8150 He was getting $30 for the full scource last year. It's a good assembler (for $30, with source, it's actually a GREAT assembler). Handles several processors, too, not just 805x's. It even comes with a real manual. --Brad Msg#:30650 *PROJECTS* 07/10/90 09:22:14 From: TOM NICKEL To: ED NISLEY (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 30630 (DDT51/HELP!) O.K., Ed .. I'll give it a try .. And thanks again! Msg#:30651 *PROJECTS* 07/10/90 09:24:01 From: TOM NICKEL To: BRAD NOTLAW (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 30641 (DDT51/HELP!) Brad .. I found the "order" form. The check's in the mail! What "C" compiler will be needed to recompile the source code? Thanks, Tom Nickel Msg#:30721 *PROJECTS* 07/13/90 02:22:27 From: BRAD NOTLAW To: TOM NICKEL (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 30651 (DDT51/HELP!) Hi Tom-- My computer is a Macintosh, so I had to port it over to LightSpeed C. I can't say much about what it will run under on the PC. Sorry. --Brad Msg#:32412 *PROJECTS* 09/04/90 10:08:10 From: TOM NICKEL To: BRAD NOTLAW (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 30721 (DDT51/HELP!) Brad .. Here's where I am on the TASM bug fix .. I've received the copy of TASM in "C" code form from the Author. I've made the changes that you had suggested, compiled and linked the code with Microsoft Quick C version 1.0. It seems that the assembler still misses out of range calls. I was "testing" the assembler by compiling a small assembly language program .. One which has two "ORG" statements. The first ORG is at 50H, the next at something out of range, such as 9000H. I simply call a routine which has nothing more than a retrun statement to see if an out of range error is generated. Nothing happens .. i.e. the TASM assembler still seems to miss the problem. (I'm writing in 8031 code) .. Suggestions? I've contacted the author of TASM, who is apparently unaware of the "problem". Thanks again .. Tom Nickel Msg#:30590 *PROJECTS* 07/09/90 00:40:02 From: BRAD NOTLAW To: KEN DAVIDSON (Rcvd) Subj: IMAGEWISE Hi Ken-- If I had one of those ImageWise things plugged into my serial port, how often would I receive an image? Does the software do some fancy compression tricks, or is the image just sent as raw data? --Brad Msg#:30607 *PROJECTS* 07/09/90 08:44:15 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: BRAD NOTLAW (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 30590 (IMAGEWISE) A full-resolution picture sent at 28800 bps (the fastest it will go) takes from 12 to 15 seconds to transfer. The software does some simple run-length encoding that can reduce the size of the picture up to about 20% depending on picture content. The transfer rate goes up by 4 and 16 as you go to lower resolutions. Msg#:30642 *PROJECTS* 07/09/90 23:57:32 From: BRAD NOTLAW To: KEN DAVIDSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 30607 (IMAGEWISE) Thanks. I just finished some Huffman and LZW stuff at work. While learning about those algorithms, I ran across some compression techniques that would be real useful for real-time, sequential-image type stuff. Is there a screaming need for anything like that, and do you think it's practical? --Brad Msg#:30649 *PROJECTS* 07/10/90 09:00:58 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: BRAD NOTLAW (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 30642 (IMAGEWISE) We plan to do some experimenting with other compression techniques, so it would be useful if you could point me to some references you think would help. Thanks. Msg#:30723 *PROJECTS* 07/13/90 02:27:16 From: BRAD NOTLAW To: KEN DAVIDSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 30649 (IMAGEWISE) Thanks for the reply. I found tidbits here and there that looked interesting, but not much I'd call a formal reference. Lots of stuff gets rejected by the 30 frames/second folks, simply because a few hundred milliseconds of computation are out of the question. On the other hand, if transfer times are 10-15 seconds, 'wasteing' a second or two on data crunching in order to cut file size seems like a reasonable thing to consider. Here are a few things I noticed... Thunderscan (the folks with the A/D converter in place of a ribbon that turns your printer into a scanner) have a scheme for 4-bit specific data. Done by Hertzfeld, of Macintosh fame. It's clever, fast, and easy to implement. LZW is hard to beat, especially considering it was designed specifically for real-time. Althou it's found now in lots of places, most all of them operate on 8-bit data. LZW is sensitive to word sizes, so if the image data is 4-bit, the LZW cell size best be 4-bit also. Meaning that, in this case, 2 nybbles and a byte are NOT the same thing. Other things that can have a big impact are tricks like converting a scan line to the difference between itself and the previous line (previous being the one above it, or better yet, the same scan line from the previous image). Tends to create lots of zeros, and a much smaller typical RANGE of data, which LZW is very sensitive to. Works well on gray-scale data. There are some graphics gurus here at work who claim that if "lossy" rather than "lossless" compression is acceptable, then it can get crazy, like when delta changes in a range of data can be represented mathematically with something like a bicubic spline. It's not clear to me how it could ever be very fast, but the up-side is that the compression rate is staggering. C-Cube, the company who's putting the JPEG standard into silicon, claims an equivalent standard emerging for full-motion video. I haven't seen anything on it, but it will no doubt be the last word on how-to-do-it-right. Unfortunately, reading these types of things, at least for me, sometimes creates alot of head-scratching. The Mac has an VERY efficent method of representing 1-bit deep 'regions' it uses for things like clipping masks. The region stucture, compact as it is, lends itself well to easy, additonal compression. Representing a 4-bit deep image as a combination of four 1-bit planes means the picture can be a set of 4 overlayed regions, each of which can be subjected to some major scrinkage. If images are being transmitted at a reasonable rate, "cheating" with optical effects is possible, like transmitting only half of the picture (odd numbered lines this time, even ones next time). I found lots of surprises at implementation time. Some things that looked great on paper didn't do much in practice. Other things I thought would be marginal, weren't at all. Hacking around with different ideas can be very Msg#:30693 *PROJECTS* 07/11/90 21:25:41 From: STEPHEN SMITH To: ALL Subj: IMAGEWISE FOR SALE For sale: Image Wise Digitizer/Transmitter with power supply but no case working perfectly (I got a TARGA) $100 firm Write Steve Smith 8421 Woodland Rd Millersville, MD 21108 or call (301) 647-7139 evenings before 10:00 Don't leave messages on this board. Msg#:30745 *PROJECTS* 07/13/90 15:23:55 From: CHUCK DAVIS To: STEVE & ED Subj: HAL4 Hi Ed, Steve et al... I just uploaded AmiHAL4.lzh. The reason for the delay was that I wanted be sure that it will run on an A2500/30. The routine, as it stands, is bare bones. Phase and phase display were not implemented. I also added a fewother pertinent files having to do with system speedup. The data displayedis the current spectrum, not 1 sec. (64 samples) delayed. Evenually, Iintend to have an A3000 with 25mHz MC68030. Then, I'll be to have all 4channels up and running with all kinds of goodies. Am open to whateverkind of cool ideas there might be. Like: record/play, store/recall/analyzeand stuff like that.Hope you like it! Chuck Davis HollyWood, Ca. Msg#:30752 *PROJECTS* 07/13/90 17:36:40 From: ED NISLEY To: CHUCK DAVIS (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 30745 (HAL4) Thanks kindly. Having no way to check it out, we'll take your word on it. You might want to do a message search to locate the other folks who've asked for HAL mods and see if there's a match made in heaven. Msg#:30879 *PROJECTS* 07/19/90 10:42:07 From: CHUCK DAVIS To: ED NISLEY (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 30752 (HAL4) Ed, My Friend.... I know CC INK can afford to have an Amiga in its lab! ;-) But I would like to know if it's possible to get my hands on a mailing list of HAL4 purchasers? The algorhythn(sp?) that I use can also be tailored to an 80286 code museum, also ChuckD.... Msg#:31051 *PROJECTS* 07/24/90 16:18:47 From: ED NISLEY To: CHUCK DAVIS (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 30879 (HAL4) I'm not the right person to ask about mailing lists, believe me, but I suspect cracking the names out is po$$ible. Drop a note to Steve and see what he says... Msg#:31248 *PROJECTS* 07/30/90 00:16:53 From: CHUCK DAVIS To: ED NISLEY (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 31051 (HAL4) Tnx Ed, will do. ChuckD.... Msg#:30789 *PROJECTS* 07/16/90 09:47:31 From: CRISS LAIDLAW To: ALL Subj: BCC18 SERIAL PORT INTERRUPTS Has anyone written an interrupt handler for the BCC18 serial port? I have a BCC52 system that will need to conduct interactive communications with a VAX via the BCC18 serial port and BASIC-52 just ain't up to the task. I know something about setting up interrupt-driven communications on an IBM PC with an 8251, but nothing about 8051 assembly. Msg#:30834 *PROJECTS* 07/17/90 10:44:29 From: JEFF BACHIOCHI To: CRISS LAIDLAW (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 30789 (BCC18 SERIAL PORT INTERRUPTS) Criss, Micromint offers serial port software for the BCC18 for $75. Most of the support is for the MOSART modem (dialing, speaking, answering,etc.), but routines are given for initialization, send a byte receive a byte, get status and dumb terminal mode. These should answer most of your questions. It's a bit steep for wanting just UART operation but something to fall back on if you need it. "BCC52/18 Support Software" jeff Msg#:30996 *PROJECTS* 07/23/90 14:54:19 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: CRISS LAIDLAW (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 30789 (BCC18 SERIAL PORT INTERRUPTS) The BCC52/18 software does *not* have any interrupt support built in. Plus, it is designed to work from BASIC, though it could be used from assembly language programs. In this case, I think you'd be better off doing things from scratch (though the BCC52/18 might provide some good examples even though it won't work for you off the shelf). Msg#:31984 *PROJECTS* 08/20/90 13:41:53 From: CRISS LAIDLAW To: KEN DAVIDSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 30996 (BCC18 SERIAL PORT INTERRUPTS) I bought the BCC18 Support software with my BCC52 system, assuming that it would have support for interrupt-driven communications. Oh well. here is some useful code in the software however, but not for what I most need. What resources (ie, books, articles, etc.) will be the most useful to me in learning how to implement interrupt-driven i/o on a BCC52/BCC18 system? The BCC18 has an 8251 on it, which I believe is the same chip used for serial i/o on the good old IBM PC. I more or less understand how to set up the 8251 to generate interrupts on send & receive but I also need to know something about 8052 opcodes and how to set it up to respond to the interrupts. Any ideas? Msg#:31986 *PROJECTS* 08/20/90 14:46:32 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: CRISS LAIDLAW (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 31984 (BCC18 SERIAL PORT INTERRUPTS) The Intel Embedded Controller Handbook that covers the 8031/8052 is the place to look for details about the interrupts and assembly language. The BASIC-52 manual should describe how to interface BASIC to interrupts. The IBM PC uses the 8250 serial chip, which is nothing like the 8251 chip used on the BCC18. There should be enough information in the BCC18 manual regarding use of interrupts with the 8251. Msg#:31988 *PROJECTS* 08/20/90 16:16:26 From: CRISS LAIDLAW To: KEN DAVIDSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 31986 (BCC18 SERIAL PORT INTERRUPTS) Thanks. I'll order it today. - Criss Msg#:30802 *PROJECTS* 07/16/90 18:15:40 From: JAY A MORRIS To: ED NISLEY (Rcvd) Subj: IMAGEWISE ED. WHEN I POWER UP THE RECIVER/DISPLAY BOARD I BUILT I GET THE DIAGONAL TEST PATTERN THAT THE ARTICAL SAYS I SHOULD BUT WHEN I DOWN LOAD A PICTURE (CANS.PIC) ALL THE PICTURE IS DISPLAYED ON THE TOP LINE OF THE MONITOR. THE SERIAL DATA FORMAT FOR THE DISPLAY/RECIVER IS SAID (BY THE ARTICAL) TO REQUIRE A START BIT. MY TERMINAL (INSTANT TERMINAL (SOFTRONICS)) DOSENT ALLOW IT. JAY Msg#:30829 *PROJECTS* 07/17/90 08:51:51 From: ED NISLEY To: JAY A MORRIS (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 30802 (IMAGEWISE) Huh? True by definition, _all_ RS-232 serial communications has a start bit... otherwise there's no way to tell when the bit stream starts. Perhaps you've misread your terminal's manual: the only "optional" bit in RS-232 asychronous protocols is the parity bit. It sounds like you've got a protocol mismatch; the ImageWise isn't getting the "end of line" markers that tell it to step to the next line. Because those use the most-significant bit, I suspect the data you're sending chops it off. The setting to use is one start bit (you can't do without it), eight data bits, no parity bit, and one stop bit. This is usually abbreviated 8-N-1, so if that rings a bell, go for it. Without looking at the schematic, I'd bet the oscillator's Vcc and ground pins are in the standard locations and the fourth pin is for symmetry. With all due respect, this sort of question is the kind that you can answer yourself by applying a multimeter to the board... you don't need any special knowledge to measure the voltage across a pair of pins. OK? Msg#:30814 *PROJECTS* 07/16/90 22:42:49 From: BARRY C. BROUILLETTE To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: LASER DIODE Hi Steve, I loved the article about using laser diodes for your perimeter security. My application is to let us know if the kids are getting close to the river at the back of our property. My concern is that one of them will look into the thing and say "what's this thing". Questions: 1) What is the realistic appraisal of the danger potential here? 2) Is it possible to use the ordinary IR LED circuit for a distance of 100 feet if I used two of them about a foot apart and "ANDed" the result? I know that your results were not encouraging in the article using the ordinary LED's but how bad were they? Falsing only during huricanes, or in every rainstorm. 3) Do you have a source for the 640Khz crystal? Everywhere I called - Jameco, JDR etc, only had crystals from 1 Mhz on up. Thanks again for the great article. Barry Msg#:30837 *PROJECTS* 07/17/90 12:18:56 From: BOB PADDOCK To: BARRY C. BROUILLETTE (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 30814 (LASER DIODE) See if any of the xtals are a power of 2, of what you want and use a 74HC4060 osc/divider to end up with the frequency you need. For example 640 KHz * 4 = 2.56 MHz. A 2.567 MHz xtals might not be that hard to find. The frequency in this case probably dosen't have to be exactly 640.00000 KHz, as long and RX and TX are the same (I don't have the artical here to look at it?). Msg#:30861 *PROJECTS* 07/18/90 10:21:25 From: STEVE CIARCIA To: BARRY C. BROUILLETTE (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 30814 (LASER DIODE) Actually, the 640KHz is not a crystal it is a ceramic resonator (didn't I say that in the article?). They are available from Digi-Key. Regarding your application, I wouldn't use a laser (have you tried tying a rope on the kid's ankle?). Instead, I'd use an RF proximity alarm. This is a long name for a little radio transmitter that you put on the kid's belt that continually transmits a signal. When the kid goes out of range, settable from 200-500 feet, an alarm goes off in the receiver. All Electronics (800-826-5432) sells such a device called a Kiddie Alert (retail $100) surplus for about $10. Believe me, this sucker really works well (don't forget to tell All that you see their ads in CC INK). I bought a few to use as wireless contact closure transmitter/receivers. Real ones from the security companies cost $100 a pair and these baby monitors can be used to do the same on/off or even supervised communication. Try one of these. Sorry, the box says 25-200 feet for the monitoring. Actual transmission for my application was 500 feet.. --Steve Msg#:31071 *PROJECTS* 07/25/90 00:14:37 From: BARRY C. BROUILLETTE To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 30837 (LASER DIODE) Steve, I'm sorry about the confusion between a ceramic resonator and a crystal. You are correct, that is what you said and I have ordered them from Digi-Key. As for the application, I probably didn't say quite enough. The water in question is a small creek which flows very slowly and has an average depth of about 6 inches. I am not really concerned so much with my kids falling in as I am with their friends when they come over. Since the group is constantly varying, putting a radio on each of the friends and then recovering it before they head home is not practical. I would just like to know when one of them is heading toward the water. There is one flat spot about 100 feet wide that they would have to cross ( still several hundred feet from the water) and I would like to monitor this. I understand that this will never be a foolproof system but it would be better than what we have now. So I guess my questions about the safety issues of the lasers and the feasability of a dual beam LED only system still stand. Any thoughts? Thanks again, Barry Msg#:31085 *PROJECTS* 07/25/90 08:06:39 From: BOB PADDOCK To: BARRY C. BROUILLETTE (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 31071 (LASER DIODE) I think I got your messages by mistake? [Ken: Is there a reason that this happens every once in a while? You get a 'reply' that seems to be the reply to some one else message?] Msg#:31091 *PROJECTS* 07/25/90 09:01:25 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: BOB PADDOCK (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 31085 (LASER DIODE) If you replied to any message within the thread, then there is a possibility of you getting a reply back even if it was meant for another message in the thread. It depends on when the person posting the reply selected eply. I can't immediately check to see if you posted anything since the original message(s) was (were) deleted. (Aaarrgh!!) I'll go in and undelete things. I have half a mind to disable the damn delete command altogether. Msg#:31100 *PROJECTS* 07/25/90 11:21:27 From: STEVE CIARCIA To: BARRY C. BROUILLETTE (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 31071 (LASER DIODE) I don't thing a couple mW diode laser is going to hurt anything but if you are woried then use a bunch of regular IR LEDs with a lens. --Steve Msg#:31101 *PROJECTS* 07/25/90 12:22:14 From: BOB PADDOCK To: KEN DAVIDSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 31091 (LASER DIODE) Now I am confused. Since I never deleate any thing what does that have to do with Reply?. Do you mean that if I'm reading that thread, when some one else on an other line Replyes I get the Reply even if it was for some one else? Msg#:31138 *PROJECTS* 07/26/90 10:30:04 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: BOB PADDOCK (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 31101 (LASER DIODE) OK. Back one step. I was trying to decide whether you had left a reply as part of that message thread, so I tried backing up through the thread. The person who started the thread had deleted the first two messages of the thread, so I couldn't tell if you'd posted a message or not. I was so pissed at finding the deleted messages that I didn't make myself very clear in the message. I've since removed the elete command, so it shouldn't happen again. If you're reading along in a message thread, then press the eply key, the reply will be addressed to the person who left the message you last looked at. That should be clear enough. Now if you're reading along and you come across the "End of replies. Leave your own reply?" (or something like that) and you say yes, I'm not sure whether the reply is addressed to the person who left the first message in the thread, or the latest message in the thread. If it's to the latest message, then it may be sent to the wrong person, which is what I think happened here. If you ever get a message intended for someone else, back up through the message thread, find out who it probably should go to, then orward the wayward message to the correct person. Now if *that* isn't clear as mud... ;-) Msg#:31143 *PROJECTS* 07/26/90 12:48:13 From: BOB PADDOCK To: KEN DAVIDSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 31138 (LASER DIODE) Thanks for the info, I'll forward wayward messages when I get them.... Msg#:30821 *PROJECTS* 07/17/90 02:41:14 From: DALE NASSAR To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: UNUSED HAL CHANNELS Steve, on the HAL-4 what is the function of the 2K 1/2W resistors that connect the unused op-amp inputs. These values seem to expect a worst case condition of greater than 30 volts @ over 100ma. I think I have seen something similar to this used elsewhere--why can't the high input impeadance op-amp inputs be safely connected together to prevent stray pick-up? --Dale Msg#:30862 *PROJECTS* 07/18/90 10:25:45 From: STEVE CIARCIA To: DALE NASSAR (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 30821 (UNUSED HAL CHANNELS) I'm not sure what you are asking but I don't have a schematic in front of me either. All the inputs on HAL should be the same, as far as I remember. The software supplied only uses 4 of the 8 circuits even though all of the data from 8 inputs should be coming out serially. --Steve Msg#:30863 *PROJECTS* 07/18/90 11:19:52 From: DALE NASSAR To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 30862 (UNUSED HAL CHANNELS) Sorry for being unclear--I have the manual and was looking at the external connection to the unit. The manual describes a cable/resistor for plugging into unused channels. --Dale Msg#:30844 *PROJECTS* 07/17/90 20:07:33 From: DAVID COLE To: ALL Subj: HAL-4 I am attempting to use an Electro-Cap EEG electrode cap system with a HAL-4. The following 10-20 EEG montage makes since to me, but I am not versed in the proper configuration of 10-20 montages: JS - Ear Clip GND J1A - Fp1 J2A - O1 J1B - O2 J2B - Fp2 J1C - F7 J2C - T5 J1D - T6 J2D - F8 Could anyone shed some light on this subject. My desired result is a hemisphere sequence bipolar montage. Is there anyone who regularly utilizes a four-channel HAL system who could recommend electrode placements? Thanks... David Cole Studiotronics 1-800-780-3825 Msg#:31194 *PROJECTS* 07/27/90 23:31:03 From: CRAIG ANDERSON To: ALL USERS Subj: BCCH16 Howdy, does anyone have info on BCCh16 basic? I`m now building a BCCH16 like board, so I`ll need the software soon. Any info is much appreciated. Any body else designing for or with BCCH16 type hardware? :) Msg#:31278 *PROJECTS* 07/30/90 10:00:01 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: CRAIG ANDERSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 31194 (BCCH16) The hardware end of the project has been put on hold pending the outcome of the Hitachi/Motorola court case involving the H8. Doesn't make much sense to come to market with a board that uses a processor you might not be able to get shortly. As a result, development of the multitasking BASIC for the board has slowed to a crawl, and I'm not sure when it will be in a shippable form. Best look into other alternatives at this point (and the only ones I'm aware of at this time are cross-assemblers that run on the PC). Msg#:31393 *PROJECTS* 08/02/90 18:27:54 From: CRAIG ANDERSON To: KEN DAVIDSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 31278 (BCCH16) Thanks Ken Its great to have someone like you that I can always rely on for a reply. And its too bad the bord I`m building would have really screamed and I spent so much time procurring the parts like the HD641016. Oh well, thanks again :-) Msg#:31304 *PROJECTS* 07/30/90 23:26:31 From: KELLY W. BOLES To: ALL Subj: PARTS SOURCING I AM LOOKING FOR A SOURCE FOR THE RCA 74HC22106 CROSSPOINT SWITCH AS USED IN THE FEB '86 CIRCUIT CELLAR CONCERNING AUDIO / VIDEO SIGNAL MULTIPLEXING. I AM ALSO LOOKING FOR INFORMATION FOR THE MICROCONTROLLER SYNTHESIS OF TV, VCR, SATELLITE INFRARED REMOTE CONTROLS; BEYOND THE SCOPE OF THE CIRCUIT CELLAR ARTICLES OF FEB & MARCH '87. IT IS DESIRED IN THIS SYNTHESIS THAT THE MICROCONTROLLER BE THE "BUTTON PUSHER" BEING ABLE TO SELECT FROM A LIBRARY OF REMOTES FILED IN EPROM. Msg#:31320 *PROJECTS* 07/31/90 09:16:54 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: KELLY W. BOLES (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 31304 (PARTS SOURCING) I don't think RCA makes that chip anymore. If they do, I don't know of a source for single quantities. Maxim has a new chip out, though, that might make a good replacement. The MAX456 is an 8x8 crosspoint switch designed for video switching. The MAX457 contains a pair of video amplifiers that directly drive 75-ohm cable and can be used to buffer the switch outputs. I just put together a Tech Tip for the next Circuit Cellar INK card deck that describes the switch. I don't think you're going to find anything as extensive as the orginal Master Controller article in the March '87 issue of BYTE for doing computer-controlled IR control. The Master Controller software has built into it a "remote button press" so the computer can press buttons as well as the human user. Msg#:31404 *PROJECTS* 08/03/90 02:15:52 From: KELLY W. BOLES To: KEN DAVIDSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 31320 (PARTS SOURCING) THE MAXIM CHIPS SOUND LIKE THEY WOULD BE PERFECT FOR THE APPLICATION, BUT IT DOESENT APPEAR THAT THEY WILL BE RELEASED ANY TIME SOON; CORRECT ??? I HAVE 2 C BAND SAT DISHES, 1 KU SAT DISH; 9 TOTAL FEEDS FROM THE SATELLITES + CATV FEED + VCR FEED + COMPUTER GRAPHICS FEED + VID CAMERA FEED. ALL OF THESE SIGNALS ARE TO BE DISTRIBUTED TO 25 DIFFERENT TV'S. (BY THE END OF AUGUST). AM I WRONG CONCERNING THE AVAILABILITY OF THE MAXIM PARTS ? IS THERE ANY OTHER CHOICES ? ( LAST RESORT ) ARE RELAYS OUT OF THE QUESTION ??. ALSO THE DISH POSITIONING WILL BE MICRO CONTROLLED BASED ON AN ADAPTATION OF A CHAIN HOIST CONTROL SYSTEM. (BUILT MOSTLY OF BCC PRODUCTS). THE MOST OBVIOUS DIFFERENCE IN PHYSICAL BEHAVIOR IS THE CHAIN HOISTS STOP INSTANTLY, WHILE THE SATELLITE DISHES COAST A LITTLE. I ASSUME LOGICAL BRAKING WILL COMPENSATE FOR THIS. ANY INPUT APPRECIATED. FINALLY THE INFRARED REMOTES WILL ALL BE MICRO-CONTROLLED. ANY INPUT ON THIS ASPECT WOULD BE APPRECIATED. ITS LATE AND SERIOUS LIGHTENING IS STRIKING CLOSE BY, SO I BETTER SIGN OFF . THANKS FOR YOUR HELP. Msg#:31413 *PROJECTS* 08/03/90 08:52:26 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: KELLY W. BOLES (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 31404 (PARTS SOURCING) On what are you basing your assumption that the chips aren't being released anytime soon? Another chip I found that probably wouldn't do you any good is a Signetics TDA8440. It will switch one video channel and two audio channels between two different sources (six inputs, three outputs). Presumably it's used to switch a single output between two different inputs in VCRs and TVs. Msg#:31335 *PROJECTS* 08/01/90 00:06:41 From: JIM GENTILIN To: RON GRANT Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 25069 (PRIMITIVE EPROM PROGRAMMER) Hi Ron, I'm not sure if I can help but I'll try. First of all I don't know if the 6402 is pin compatible with the AY3-1015. I purchased the AY chip from JAMECO Electronics,1355 Shoreway Road,Belmont,CA 94002. Tel # (415) 592-8097. I hope I was of some help! By the way, is the Primitive EPROM Programmer the same thing as the Serial EPROM Programmer published in BYTE? RSVP Msg#:31837 *PROJECTS* 08/15/90 13:28:44 From: JIM MCCUSKER To: RON GRANT Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 25294 (PRIMITIVE EPROM PROGRAMMER) Hi, Just thought I'd add my comments concerning the 1013 UART chip. My company has been using the chip on a serial communications board for over 5 years now. First, I'm told that the 1013 is not pin compatable with the 6402, (a few messages back stated that they were, but that's not true). The difference lies in the (Data Available) pin. Hope this helps! Jim McCusker Msg#:31541 *PROJECTS* 08/06/90 21:51:59 From: PAUL BECKER To: ED NISLEY (Rcvd) Subj: DDT-51 PROBLEMS Hey dudes... I've tried unsuccessfully to build the DDT-51. TESTER.COM says everything is good up to the Data to/from 8031 section. Then I get Mux errors. For each pass, both 01 and 10 bomb out... bad bits 40 and 80. I've been over the '253 section with a fine-tooth comb, buzzed out the whole darned board even, and can't figure it out. I shortened my PC cable (now it is 2.5 ft.) and it didn't help a bit. I even changed out the '253, hoping it was bad. No luck. I'm ready to trash the board and start over, but it just seems like it is soooo close... I was gonna take the thing to work and slap it on the logic analyzer to maybe see what was going on, but we're so busy (only one analyzer, eh) that I'd have to stay after work to do it, and traffic in St. Louis on my way home is standstill. I'm hoping someone can shed some light on what the heck is going on here... Am I overlooking something? By the way... My source code for TESTER is missing a routine called GetCount. I figured out what it did and kludged a routine that worked, but does anyone know this? Helppp pleeeeez! Thanks, eh. Sleepyhead (Paul) Msg#:31609 *PROJECTS* 08/08/90 15:01:44 From: ED NISLEY To: PAUL BECKER (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 31541 (DDT-51 PROBLEMS) There are a couple of standard things that we recommened right off the bat. Take a look in the Files and Notes sections for the collected wisdom of the ages; there are a couple of files that'll give you a goo start. Given that you're using TESTER.COM, you've got the old versions of the code, so, while you're in Files, pick up a new copy of everything. In point of fact, there was a bug in the multiplexer testing section; I didn't set ALE before doing the tests, so depending on which way the previous tests left it hanging, the tests wouldn't work. Sorry about that... but I bet your board will work just fine when you try it out! Msg#:31581 *PROJECTS* 08/08/90 00:15:06 From: SANJAYA VATUK To: ALL Subj: MATRA-HARRIS 80C32 Does anybody know where I can get a data sheet/specs etc. on the Matra-Harris 80C32 ? I have heard that there are some differences in this part as far as power consumption, power-down mode and clock speeds from Intel 80C31's. All help is appreciated. Thanks, --Sanj Msg#:31599 *PROJECTS* 08/08/90 10:04:51 From: STEVE CIARCIA To: SANJAYA VATUK (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 31581 (MATRA-HARRIS 80C32) The 80C32 from Matra-Harris is better than the Intel CMOS 80C31 (aside from the RAM/time differences between a 31/32). Cooincidentally, the 80C52 (a 80C32 with 8K ROM) that Micromint uses as its 80C52-BASIC chip is a Matra-Harris chip. Basically, the Matra-Harris chip is REAL CMOS logic. It is lower power to begin with but it also has no minimum clock freq. Unlike the Intel unit which has a 2 MHZ (I believe) min clock, the Matra_Harris can go to 0 HZ (DC). When the clock is off, by the way, power to the chip is about 15 microAmps! How's that for power down? We've also successfully run the 12MHz 80C52-BASIC chips at 22MHz ! A comple spec is in the Matra-Harris microcontroller manual. Call them at 408-986-9000. -Steve Msg#:31607 *PROJECTS* 08/08/90 14:45:54 From: SANJAYA VATUK To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 31599 (MATRA-HARRIS 80C32) That's what I was hoping to hear!! Thanks ever so much, -- Sanj Msg#:31727 *PROJECTS* 08/11/90 19:55:54 From: SANJAYA VATUK To: KEN DAVIDSON (Rcvd) Subj: SMARTSPOOLER PROBLEMS Hasve you heard of this problem before? I built the SmartSpooler from the complete kit. Everything works fine, except when I try to print PCB artwork from TangoPCB II+ to my Panasonic KX-P1124. Problem 1: The initial few bytes are lost or corrupted before reaching the printer. As a result, the printer does not realize it is in bit-graphics mode, and gets rather annoyed, beeping and printing random characters. A hex dump to the printer verifies the missing/corrupted bytes. Problem 2: The graphic prints, but random dots and blank areas that should be dots are printed. A hex dump shows random flipped bits. I know you've heard this one before, but I have *NEVER* had any problem with TangoPCB output before. NEVER! Solution to problem 1: Replace the input 74LS374 with a 74HC374. No more printer initialization problems. Well, almost - just tried it again - same problem. Solution to problem 2: Replace the output 74LS374 with a 74HCTLS374. Perfect artwork. Every time. (I discovered this fix several months ago, but just found the solution to the first problem today.) New problem: Now sometimes the SmartSpooler won't reset when powering up - it seems to be drawing a small amount of power through the input 'HC374 - this was even worse when I tried an 'HCTLS374. I am using the Coleco power supply, but switching to one made for Racal-Vadic shows the same problem. This problem is *much* worse when the serial input is connected to my computer. Sometimes it resets, but then all of the LED's except COPY flash on and off. COPY does not light at all. Any ideas? What is the form factor of the CCI power supply (UPS-11?) Does it have separate cords for the AC and DC, or is it like the Coleco - a giant plug-in hunk? Thanks for any assistance or thoughts you may have on these problems - I love this thing - I don't know how I got along without it before! --Sanj Msg#:31766 *PROJECTS* 08/13/90 07:09:15 From: PELLERVO KASKINEN To: SANJAYA VATUK (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 31727 (SMARTSPOOLER PROBLEMS) I also use Tango PCB+ and I _did_ have a couple of problems with its communication parameter settings. For the first, I assume your files are quite large even in comparison with the good size buffer that you have. So probably you still need a handshake between the computer and the buffer. Tango seems to come with X-ON/X-OFF handshaking as the default. That caused me a surprise originally, and again, when I updated to the + version and got the default setting hit me again. Just a possibility... -- PJK Msg#:31788 *PROJECTS* 08/13/90 19:30:22 From: SANJAYA VATUK To: PELLERVO KASKINEN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 31766 (SMARTSPOOLER PROBLEMS) I don't think buffer size really matters - the Epson LQ driver is so slow as to make the Smartspooler unnecessary - I just dont want to unhook it for Tango. I am using LPT1 from the PC, so I don't think Xon/off applies - or does it? Interestingly, my other parallel port won't even work with the Spooler at all when running Tango - I get a device not selected error. I noticed that the SmartSpooler doesn't implement Select. Hmm. Thanks, -- Sanj Msg#:31905 *PROJECTS* 08/17/90 14:52:24 From: KEN SIMON To: SANJAYA VATUK (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 31727 (SMARTSPOOLER PROBLEMS) I had problems with the output 74LS374 also. On my Star printer at home, it would incorrectly set the eighth data bit and cause an extended character to be printed - but on my Epson at work, there was no problem. Swapping the input and output '374s didn't solve the problem, so I was "sure" it wasn't a chip problem. One time while swapping I trashed the chip, bought a replacement from a different manufacturer, and suddenly it started working. Ken Msg#:31911 *PROJECTS* 08/18/90 01:32:33 From: SANJAYA VATUK To: KEN SIMON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 31905 (SMARTSPOOLER PROBLEMS) What manufacturer did you use? I too swapped em - no luck till I treied the HCT. Still having problems occasionally - I think the Panasonic eats the first few bytes when I bring it online. Thanks,' -- Sanj Msg#:31916 *PROJECTS* 08/18/90 07:48:19 From: PELLERVO KASKINEN To: SANJAYA VATUK (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 31788 (SMARTSPOOLER PROBLEMS) Well, I tried, but what you say seems to make sense and I do not have any more plausible explanations. Your parallel port use also seems to exclude the use of Break-Off, a system to monitor traffic in a searial line. Hmmm?? -- PJK Msg#:31926 *PROJECTS* 08/19/90 00:51:04 From: BARRY ERICK To: SANJAYA VATUK (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 31727 (SMARTSPOOLER PROBLEMS) I had the same problem on two printers, where the smartspooler dropped or changed characters. I added a .01 uf cap to date line 8 to gnd and the problem went away. Now.. A new problem I just got a Zeos 386sx/20 and the smart spooler gives errors to the computer now. I had to change cables since I had a Tandy 1000tx , and the computer end is a 34 pin card edge. Both cables I tried have all 26 pins carried through, but anything pronting to the spooler KJfm|comes back with an error after one page. I never had that problem before. I have not scoped the avail and busy lines as yet, nor have I changed the timeout value in the bios storage area to see if anything was different. Andy ideas on the problem? --- Barry Msg#:31993 *PROJECTS* 08/21/90 01:37:44 From: SANJAYA VATUK To: PELLERVO KASKINEN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 31916 (SMARTSPOOLER PROBLEMS) I think the only handshaking that goes on with a parallel port is the Busy and Ack lines, which are hardware control lines. There are a couple of other lines such as paper error but most devices seem to be quite happy without them. I tried my other parallel port with tangopcb - it does not work at all, since the Select line is not asserted by the Smartspooler, and Tango apparently looks for it. My card is one of those VLSI-based parallel/two serial puppies - I get a printer_not_selected error. More fun. I think I may have solved my problem by reversing my power-up procedure - I now power up the printer first, load paper, bring it online, and _then_ power up the spooler. I haven't had a chance to fully test this theory as I am busy packing and moving to my new house. I'll try again in a few weeks and see what's cookin. Thanks, -- Sanj Msg#:31994 *PROJECTS* 08/21/90 01:43:54 From: SANJAYA VATUK To: BARRY ERICK Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 31926 (SMARTSPOOLER PROBLEMS) I may have accomplished the same thing as your cap by switching to the HCT374 - I _hate_ patched pcb's! As far as your new problem - try tying Select (pin 13 on the output DB-25 of the smartspooler) high throuh a resistor - 2.2k-4.7k ought to do it. Some cards apparently need this handshake to work properly with some software - I know my other card does. I haven't tried this myself, since I don't use that port, but testing with TangoPcb gave me a device not selected error. Worth a shot, and won't harm anything, near as I can tell. Good luck, and thanks for the hint, -- Sanj Msg#:32113 *PROJECTS* 08/25/90 06:58:16 From: PELLERVO KASKINEN To: SANJAYA VATUK (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 31993 (SMARTSPOOLER PROBLEMS) Aha! Rings a bell somewhere in my mind... Actually, we have one spooler at work, using a parallel port in a data base system and purchase order printing. There it is also necessary to play with the power up sequnce! One thing comes into mind about this - could be that the only time that the status is checked is the initial POST, the power on checks that the BIOS does and reports the results in the 40:0000+ area in RAM. Maybe Tango just checks there without trying anything else? Although that is a little odd, it still looks like your error message suggest something along these lines. -- PJK Msg#:32217 *PROJECTS* 08/28/90 20:54:55 From: SANJAYA VATUK To: PELLERVO KASKINEN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 32113 (SMARTSPOOLER PROBLEMS) Finally got moved into the new house. Probably be a few weeks before I get everything hooked up again. I'll let you know how it works out when i get a chance. Thanks, -- Sanj Msg#:31799 *PROJECTS* 08/14/90 01:57:01 From: STEPHEN PHILIP SMITH To: ALL USERS Subj: TEC-200 tec-200 is a trademark of meadowlake corp. It pertains to a layout, head-sensitive transfer film. I tried some demonstration film and it work great. However, the person who recieve the package lost the address of meadowlake and /or the distributor. If anyone knows of them please leave me a message. It is great stuff. Msg#:31857 *PROJECTS* 08/16/90 04:38:29 From: WYNN BEATTIE To: ALL Subj: BCC180 / BCC52CX SWAP anyone interested in swapping a bcc52cx for a new bcc180 with little use please 203-654-6455 days 8-4:30. this board has 96k of static ram and is in excellent condition. I need another bcc52 series board for my current project as a coprocessor. Msg#:31947 *PROJECTS* 08/19/90 23:26:53 From: BRYON MADGE To: ANYONE Subj: STEPPER MOTORS does anyone know where I can get stepper motor driver chips in single quantities? I am looking for something like the Sprague UCN-4204B or similar. Any help would be appreciated. thanks, bm Msg#:31991 *PROJECTS* 08/20/90 23:02:47 From: BARRY ERICK To: ALL USERS Subj: FOUND SPOOLER PROBLEM Actually to Circuit Cellar and *Sysop: The Zeos I/O card wants to see Select(+) on pin 13 as well as the normal Select (-) signal. In looking at the Epson / Zeos/ Spooler docs to find the difference, I saw that zeos showed pin 13, Epson shows a 1k pullup, and the spooler is n.c. The simple fix to get the spooler going with the Zeos 386sx and the ZeosIO card, was to add a pullup resistor (I used 1.5k) to pin 13 of the spoolers parallel input. --- Barry Msg#:32023 *PROJECTS* 08/21/90 22:04:11 From: JIM LAVIN To: ALL Subj: INTELLIGENT MODEM SWITCH I'm working on a project that has finally gotten me stumped, maybe some of you can help. When faced with the cost of adding a second phone line for a BBS at home, I thought it would be a great idea to buy a fax switch to allow the BBS to run 24 hours a day and not kill my regular voice calls by not allowing the modem to answer the line when a voice called was placed to my home phone. The switch acts sort of as a intercepter and routes the call to modem or phone depending on what is calling. Well after looking for these switches it seems that the neighbor hood of $400 dollars is a little steep. So I set out to build my own. For the auto answer circuit I'm using a circuit from one of the back issues oBYTE. Now that I've gotten the thing to answer the phone how do I get it to intelligentlly switch the call, or what should t swit look foI guess? I know 300 baud modem use certain tones when they originate a call and so do 1200 baud modems, also the higher speed modems use a carrier. Should I have the switch look for these signals first or should I have it wait for set amount of time and then switch to the phone? I'm not sure if a modem placing a call aumatically sends out a tone when the line is picked up or if it waits for the answering modem to sing out. If so I don't think my voice callers would enjoy a squeal everytime they call. Any suggestions? Help will[C be greatly appreciated! Jim Lavin Msg#:32035 *PROJECTS* 08/22/90 09:12:11 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: JIM LAVIN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 32023 (INTELLIGENT MODEM SWITCH) I've always been a bit mystified at how those switches can tell the difference between a voice call and a modem call. In both cases, it's going to hear silence when it answers the phone. Modems in originate mode don't send out any tones. The answer modem sends the tone and the originate modem responds with its own tone. About the only way I can think of for it to work is either send a tone, then assume voice when it gets no response (of course, the response will probably be "click"), or do things backwards and have the modem which is answering the phone be in originate mode (if it's even possible). You can usually intelligently switch between a fax call and something else since the fax device doing the calling sends a tone as soon as the phone is answered. Msg#:32056 *PROJECTS* 08/23/90 11:47:43 From: PAUL D'ERMILIO To: JIM LAVIN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 32023 (INTELLIGENT MODEM SWITCH) there is a bbs in my area which has the type of set-up i think you're referring to..i don't know if it is one of those $400 jobs or not, but basically it works like this...when you call, you are connected to a recording (answering machine?) which asks whether you wish to use the modem or the telephone, then switches to appropriate mode. it goes something like this...."thank you for calling ###-####. if you wish to use the telephone say 'telephone' now" if the caller says telephone you are connected, if the caller says nothing the modem is connected. hope this helps...regards paul.(if you'd like, i could probably get the # and you could ask the sysop about it) Msg#:32067 *PROJECTS* 08/23/90 21:24:02 From: JIM LAVIN To: PAUL D'ERMILIO (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 32056 (INTELLIGENT MODEM SWITCH) Yes please send me the number and I'll talk with the sysop. Thanks alot!! Msg#:32068 *PROJECTS* 08/23/90 21:27:27 From: JIM LAVIN To: KEN DAVIDSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 32035 (INTELLIGENT MODEM SWITCH) Ken, Thanks for the info, what I've researched so far deals with the older bell 103 data sets and they say the same. I've been looking around and think that if I wait a few seconds for a tone maybe then I can assume there is no modem on the other end, Another suggestion was to have the switch ask for the word telephone and then switch. Who knows that may be the only way to deal with it. Thank again! Msg#:32115 *PROJECTS* 08/25/90 09:12:16 From: ROB KELLY To: JIM LAVIN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 32023 (INTELLIGENT MODEM SWITCH) We have a $400 switch on a line at the college where I work. It is set to default to the fax ( since that was the purpose of the line. However, it is also used for inter-library loan requests via CCMAIL. The box generates ringback to the user ( about 4 rings). To get to the modem, you dial a touchtone digit (twice for good measure). This digit is in the dialing string of CCMAIL. I think that this would be the best way of switching, since the originating modem just waits for answer tone. I think that is how that BBS is working. The downside is that if the users don't dial the digit, you get a LOT of calls with nobody there. A lot of BBS users call at night. This could cause a few problems!!! I hope this helps. Let us know how it turns out. Msg#:32169 *PROJECTS* 08/27/90 14:52:44 From: PAUL D'ERMILIO To: JIM LAVIN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 32067 (INTELLIGENT MODEM SWITCH) ok, jim. i don't have it handy now but i will post it tomorrow. also, i have a source listing for something that may be what you are looking for. it's called the 'one ring thing' from kiss engineering, inc. (1-800-442-2285). it is advertised as follows: "everyone else gets your answering machine-you get your modem. call your home computer from work without having a 2nd line for your home modem and without turning off your home answering machine" this ad appeared in "computer shopper" a few months ago...list price was $100.00. i hope this helps....paul Msg#:32179 *PROJECTS* 08/27/90 20:33:10 From: JIM LAVIN To: PAUL D'ERMILIO (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 32169 (INTELLIGENT MODEM SWITCH) Thanks I'll look and see what I can find on the thin from Kiss Engineering. Msg#:32197 *PROJECTS* 08/28/90 09:12:30 From: PAUL D'ERMILIO To: JIM LAVIN Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 32179 (INTELLIGENT MODEM SWITCH) here's that nj bb #...201-815-0361. i hope this helps... regards, paul Msg#:32316 *PROJECTS* 08/31/90 23:32:30 From: PAUL PETERSEN To: JIM LAVIN Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 32179 (INTELLIGENT MODEM SWITCH) jim, one thing to look for with these switches.... some of them depend on DRS (Distinctive Ring Service) from the phone company. On your single phone line you can get more than one ring pattern... and a different phone number for each pattern... One number would ring 1 long while another might ring 2 short rings ect... The switch box recognizes the ring pattern to switch.. Users call one or the other number to connect to whichever device they want, fax, bbs or voice. The phone company, naturally, charges for DRS... $5/mo or thereabouts per number. good luck, paul Msg#:32024 *PROJECTS* 08/21/90 23:15:32 From: DAVE LOUGHLEY To: ALL Subj: STEPPER MOTOR DRIVER Help!! I'm working on putting together a simple stepper motor driver for an Oriental Motor's model #a2307-9212 stepper motor but am having a problem with my design. Currently I'm using a 555 to drive a 4017 and the first four outputs on the 4017 to drive four NPN transistors which sequence 24v to the motor windings. All this seems to work ok at very very slow pulse rates which turn into very low rpm. My problem is when I try to increase the pulse rate to raise the rpm the motor just jerks around then locks into one position. All of this is under no load also. I sure that my inexperience with stepper motors in general in not helping things and I have read the article in CCI #4. Any help with this would be greatly appreciated. thanks Dave Msg#:32130 *PROJECTS* 08/26/90 10:56:05 From: PELLERVO KASKINEN To: DAVE LOUGHLEY (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 32024 (STEPPER MOTOR DRIVER) One of the main problems with stepper motors is exactly what you have found. The coils in the motor are naturally inductive, so the current (that generates the torque) does not rise immediately after applying the voltage on the next step. Typical solutions to this are resistors in series with each coil and at the same time increased supply voltage to compensate for the loss in the resistors. There are other ways, using two voltages, a higher one at first to force a rapid increse of current and then switching over to the lower one for maintaining the current for the rest of the step length. Also, often two phases are powered at the same time in a cyclical fashion. And, different motors have different capabilities. One of the best solutions lately is a 5 phase stepper (I think Vexta is the source, but I may be in error). One thing to realize though, is that the NO LOAD situation is actually worse than a moderate load! It allows the shaft to overshoot in the rotational position after a step. It may just be swinging back at the moment when you give the next step. And that means you are talking about trouble! You do actually need some friction to get the most out of a normal stepping motor. But avoid adding any more mass (inertia) than necessary, because that only changes the speed where the problem arises to a new, lower value. -- PJK Msg#:32500 *PROJECTS* 09/07/90 18:37:01 From: DAVE LOUGHLEY To: PELLERVO KASKINEN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 32130 (STEPPER MOTOR DRIVER) Thanks! I will have to try some of that out. Dave Msg#:32042 *PROJECTS* 08/22/90 20:38:51 From: JESS LOOK To: SYSOP (Rcvd) Subj: SERIAL EPROM PROGRAMMER HOW CAN I DISPLAY THE SHEMATICS ETC TO MY PRINTER FROM SEPMAN.TXT ? Msg#:32047 *PROJECTS* 08/23/90 08:44:45 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: JESS LOOK (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 32042 (SERIAL EPROM PROGRAMMER) You don't. The SEPMAN.TXT file contains *only* the text of the manual and doesn't have any diagrams or schematics. Msg#:32057 *PROJECTS* 08/23/90 13:03:46 From: BRYON MADGE To: DAVE LOUGHLEY (Rcvd) Subj: STEPPER MOTOR DRIVER Dave, first you have to make sure that the output of the 4017 is in the proper sequence, ie 5,9,10,6 dec. Also stepper motors have a `selfstart region' and a `slew region'. The selfstart region is the area (on the torque graph) that the motor can started and stopped instantaneously in PPS. If you are trying to drive the motor at a pulse rate that is out of this region, you will experience the condition that you noted. To get any kind of useful speed out of stepper motors, you have to `ramp' the oscillator output- which is to accelerate to the maximum PPS you want, then to deccelerate to a stop. This is necessary to maintain positional accuracy. When it is necessary to operate a motor like this, you are operating in the slew region. The 555 is probably OK for testing the motor out, but connecting the motor to a microprocessor I/O port is more useful because you have control over direction, speed, half step, full step etc. Hope this helps! bm Msg#:32065 *PROJECTS* 08/23/90 20:07:18 From: DAVE LOUGHLEY To: BRYON MADGE (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 32057 (STEPPER MOTOR DRIVER) Bryon, Thanks for the advice. I was aware of the slew region and have been trying to use a pot. to adjust the pulse rate and bring it up slowly. I have made some progress. The main problem seemed to be the way the 555 was set up. I had a sort duty cycle by making it longer I was able to raise the speed some what, but it still seems slow. DO you have any idea what kind for speed I could expect to be able to achieve. Also my final goal is to do some interfacing maybe to an 8031 or something. I would like to use an up/down counter and control the motor by pulsing either the up or down pin to move the motor one way or the other. What do you think? thanks Dave Msg#:32071 *PROJECTS* 08/24/90 02:40:57 From: JEFF FULLER To: ALL USERS Subj: HAL WARNING!!! It is possible to receive a rather painfull SHOCK from HAL under the right conditions (and I don't mean with a modified circuit or power supply). It seems that once the bateries start running low (or at least part of them start getting low) a small amount of current can leak thru to the poor sucker who happens to be lucky enough to be connected to the electrodes at the time. I would suggest that if you experiment with HAL always keep a close check on your bateries and replace them as a set. However, if you like stinging skin, flashing lights and poping sounds all in your head.................. Jeff Fuller Msg#:32087 *PROJECTS* 08/24/90 16:32:34 From: STEVE CIARCIA To: JEFF FULLER Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 32071 (HAL) Ah, the good news and the bad news. HAL works fine as long as both the positive and negative supply voltages remain constant. Disconnect one or the other or let one become appreciably lower than the other and it seems to create a differential voltage on the input. We just seem to have discovered this recently even though a couple thousand have been shipped (maybe the batteries are just now wearing out?). Any suggestions? We probably should suggest a battery power tracking regulator for the batteries. --Steve Msg#:32145 *PROJECTS* 08/27/90 08:42:23 From: JEFF BACHIOCHI To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 32087 (HAL) Steve, (and Jeff) The best solution is not have electrodes connected when switching HAL on or off. My ears have had an audio overload similar to this when I've put on my headphones prior to turning on the power. Took all the curl out of my hair! Now I check the volume prior to attachment. jeff Msg#:32128 *PROJECTS* 08/26/90 04:15:22 From: PAUL THOMSON To: SYSOP (Rcvd) Subj: IMAGEWISE DIGITIZER I would like to build the digitizer, b, but I do not have the issue of BYTE that it was in. Can you help?. Msg#:32150 *PROJECTS* 08/27/90 09:02:40 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: PAUL THOMSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 32128 (IMAGEWISE DIGITIZER) The ImageWise series of articles appeared in the May-July '87 issues of BYTE and is reprinted in volume 7 of Ciarcia's Circuit Cellar, available from both Micromint (800/635-3355) and CCI (203/875-2751). Msg#:32180 *PROJECTS* 08/27/90 20:45:25 From: JIM LAVIN To: ALL Subj: INTELLIGENT MODEM SWITCH Well, I've been researching this project quite abit since my last message and boy have I got a great response from you all. The way the design looks now is that my switch will consist of a voice synthesizer, a DTMF transceiver, and some extra circuitry. The way the thing will work goes somewhat like this: Ring! Switch picks up line and directs the voice board to speak, "Press 1 for telephone or 2 for modem". Switch then counts down for 5 to 10 secs waiting for a tone to arrive. If no tone arrives it will default to modem and ring the modem line. Once the modem picks up it will connect the circuit and wait. If the DTMF transceiver receives a 1 tone it will switch the call to the second output and ring the phone. If the DTMF tranceiver receives a 2 tone it will switch the call to the modem, or first line and ring it. This theory will work for most types of modems, both those with touch-tone dialing capabilities and those without. Also it will allow Hayse compatible and smart modems to automatically dial the extension using a command like, "ATDT12178939272@2", or "ATDT12178939272,,2". If anything I've planned on seems to be out of the ordinary or completely wrong please speak up, I'd like to here from you all. I figure the more input I get the better it will be. Thankx again for the help Msg#:32198 *PROJECTS* 08/28/90 09:18:17 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: JIM LAVIN Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 32180 (INTELLIGENT MODEM SWITCH) How do you plan to "ring" either the modem or the telephone? You'll have to generate 90 VAC to send to either device to make it actually ring (ask Nathan Engle about simulating telephone lines). What about people calling from a rotary dial phone? Just playing devil's advocate... Msg#:32249 *PROJECTS* 08/30/90 02:27:20 From: CHAD SMITH To: ALL USERS Subj: FUTURE PROJECTS An application that has been a booming success in the telecommunications realm has been automated voice messaging and voice mail box systems. I've been designing a board that thrives on this concept. It's all digital it supports multi telephone lines and the system multitask. I guess it could be called a high-tech telephone or a better answering machine. It uses a device I have called a TACI. Telephone Access Control Interface is a computer controlled device that answers incomming calls and sets up a DTMF decoder to make the system interactive accoring to it's program. The TACI also has the ability to dial out. It also samples audio and plays it back. The TACI uses a SCSI. The entire board is ran by a 4mhz Z80 with supporting software on eeproms. my proto type currently supports three lines. I would like to see more projects of this type. -Chad Msg#:32263 *PROJECTS* 08/30/90 08:47:12 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: CHAD SMITH (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 32249 (FUTURE PROJECTS) What I'd like to see is *your* project. How 'bout writing it up as an article for Circuit Cellar INK? One sure way of seeing more projects like that in the pages of the magazine is to write them yourself. What are you using for the speech synthesis/recording? Msg#:32266 *PROJECTS* 08/30/90 12:15:07 From: BOB PADDOCK To: CHAD SMITH (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 32249 (FUTURE PROJECTS) Before you get real excited about selling a Voice Mail any thing, check in to the patten situation. Some unheard of fellow, pattened the idea in the early 80's, late 70's before any one else thought of it. Companies like Wang, and IBM are paying him royolits. I can dig up the details of the Patten numbers ect if you want them. Msg#:32281 *PROJECTS* 08/31/90 00:33:16 From: CHAD SMITH To: KEN DAVIDSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 32263 (FUTURE PROJECTS) MY AUDIO SAMPLER SECTION INCORPERATES AN ADC804 NATIONAL SEMICONDUCTOR WITH A DAC800. AS FAR AS SPEECH SYNTHESIS GOES I USE A GENERAL INSTRUMENTS SPO256-AL2. IT'S JUST A PROTOTYPE I THROUGH TOGETHER FROM SPARE PARTS. AS FAR AS STORAGE I USE THE SCSI PORT ON MY APPLE II AND STORE THE AUDIO ON AN ANCIENT APPLE 5MB PROFILE. AS FAR AS WRITING AN ARTICLE FOR CCI I'LL CONSIDER IT. BUT I'VE BEEN TOLD I'M A BIT BEHIND THE TIMES ,IT WOULD NOT APPEAL TO ENGINEERS OF THE 90'S. ABOUT SOMEONE ALREADY COMMING UP WITH THE IDEA, IT DOESN'T BOTHER ME. I DON'T PLAN ON MAKING $$ FROM THE THINGS, AND EVEN IF I DID WHY NOT MAKE A HOME VERSION. LATER, -CHAD ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Msg#:32327 *PROJECTS* 09/01/90 09:16:58 From: CHRIS ROMAN To: ALL Subj: POSITIVE RESIST Does any one know where I can get positive acting resist EG Shipley etc in small quantities? any help would be appreciated. Msg#:32383 *PROJECTS* 09/03/90 15:14:11 From: THOMAS BLACK To: ED NISLEY (Rcvd) Subj: DDT-51 I've been using my DDT-51 for some time now and I just noticed that the DPTR value reported by Debug31 is incorrect. Seems that DPH is always shown as 00H, a bug that drove me crazy for a few hours. Could you verify this for me? Seems odd that I may have a hardware problem on my DDT-51, but anything is possible. I've tried two different debug31's; the one that came with my Micromint Kit as well as user "improved" one that I uploaded last spring. Also, my present project has lots of External Hardware that I would like to Rd/Wr at the Debug31 Command Line. Has anyone expanded Debug31 to do this yet? Please don't recommend that I add these features - my Pascal experience is limited (I prefer C), I do not have Turbo Pascal to re-compile, and I find the Debug31 code a little criptic ... Also, I'm lazy. Finally, your MSG 29192 reply has me confused. I have never been able to operate any of my 8031 designs with DDT-51 unless I "Write Protect" my the "ROM" write line before program execution. Usually the external address space is full of goodies (RTC's, more Ram, 8255's, etc) and write addressing these guys will clobber the "ROM." If I avoided using the lower 8K code space I could ommit the write protection scheme, but I usually need all of the 64K space. My point is, there are more ways to "TRASH" the debug kernal besides an errant program. This address conflict really caused me grief during my first encounters with DDT-51, and I think had more had been said in the Doc's I could have been on line about a million- man hours sooner. I have often wondered if other DDT-51 builders with "can't get it to work" complaints are suffering from this. Thanks for your feed-back! Tom Black Msg#:32434 *PROJECTS* 09/05/90 17:14:18 From: ED NISLEY To: THOMAS BLACK (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 32383 (DDT-51) Huh? If writing the I/O devices from your program clobbers the program RAM, there are two possibilities: either you've got separate code and I/O spaces or not enough address decoding. DDT-51 requires combined program and data spaces (that's what the LS08 with PSEN and WR does for a living), so if you're trying it in a "split" system all bets are off. Given that the DDT-51 board uses the combined signals in its logic, you're probably stamping all over the Debug RAM, which would account for your DPTR failure... honest, it works just fine in the distribution version! If you have combined program and data spaces, but just haven't decoded the RAM and I/O finely enough to avoid clobbering one with accesses to the other, there's your problem. If that's the case, you're probably stamping on your hardware when the KERNEL code accesses stuff in Debug RAM. DDT-51 imposes some restrictions on your target system's hardware; if your system won't work within those boundaries, DDT-51 isn't for you! Re-read the "8031 Target System" section of the manual (pages 2-4) and see if your hardware matches up with what DDT-51 requires. Msg#:32468 *PROJECTS* 09/06/90 22:39:38 From: THOMAS BLACK To: ED NISLEY (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 32434 (DDT-51) Yes, I have a "split" system. Rom Space relies on PSEN* and my I/O and additional ram are addressed as standard address space (non-code). The I/O is accessed thru MOVX instructions whereas the Rom (set up as Ram when using DDT-51) uses the MOVC instructions. Even if I write test code that ignores my I/O space, DPTR is still incorrect. Does this seem logical? . Thanks, Tom Msg#:32494 *PROJECTS* 09/07/90 14:40:03 From: ED NISLEY To: THOMAS BLACK (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 32468 (DDT-51) Because DDT-51 really needs Program and External Data spaces combined into one blob, I think that's the heart of your problem. Check the KERNEL code to see where it's using MOVX instructions; there are a couple of places where it _must_ write into Program RAM (and, thus, your I/O and RAM!). The version that's on the BBS (and which I think you have) uses MOVC's to read from Program RAM, but there may be a MOVX at a key spot. Because the PC code reads the program RAM back to check for errors during downloading, I'm surprised that the I/O devices and External Data RAM you've got overlapping the Program RAM don't cause problems. The two RAMs should give the same result, but any I/O devices will certainly return _odd_ stuff and should cause obvious bus contention. Beats me... you're off on your own with this one! Msg#:33293 *PROJECTS* 10/06/90 16:53:47 From: THOMAS BLACK To: ED NISLEY (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 32494 (DDT-51) Thanks for your insight. I usually put the ram into lower address space and the I/O after the ram ... this explains why the downloaded code reads back ok (my ram is written and read along with the program ram and the I/O is out of the program space). Whats wierd is that all the debug tools work except that the DPTR always reports DPH as zero. My work around is to move the DPH into the ACC during debug when I need to know what the value should be. Msg#:33449 *PROJECTS* 10/10/90 08:18:51 From: ED NISLEY To: THOMAS BLACK (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 33293 (DDT-51) All's well that ends well, but I'm not sure there isn't a "gotcha" lurking in there somewhere for you. This is one of those cases where a real, genuine, honest, in-circuit emulator would come in mighty handy... Msg#:32412 *PROJECTS* 09/04/90 10:08:10 From: TOM NICKEL To: BRAD NOTLAW (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 30721 (DDT51/HELP!) Brad .. Here's where I am on the TASM bug fix .. I've received the copy of TASM in "C" code form from the Author. I've made the changes that you had suggested, compiled and linked the code with Microsoft Quick C version 1.0. It seems that the assembler still misses out of range calls. I was "testing" the assembler by compiling a small assembly language program .. One which has two "ORG" statements. The first ORG is at 50H, the next at something out of range, such as 9000H. I simply call a routine which has nothing more than a retrun statement to see if an out of range error is generated. Nothing happens .. i.e. the TASM assembler still seems to miss the problem. (I'm writing in 8031 code) .. Suggestions? I've contacted the author of TASM, who is apparently unaware of the "problem". Thanks again .. Tom Nickel Msg#:32500 *PROJECTS* 09/07/90 18:37:01 From: DAVE LOUGHLEY To: PELLERVO KASKINEN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 32130 (STEPPER MOTOR DRIVER) Thanks! I will have to try some of that out. Dave Msg#:32505 *PROJECTS* 09/08/90 01:29:58 From: STEPHEN SWEARINGEN To: CIRCUIT CELLAR GROUP Subj: EPROM PROGRAMMING Could you post some specific information about EPROM programming or refer me to some good sources. I need to know what exactly what level each pin should be and how long. Any information would be greatly welcomed. Thank you, Stephen Swearingen. Msg#:32549 *PROJECTS* 09/10/90 09:00:48 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: STEPHEN SWEARINGEN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 32505 (EPROM PROGRAMMING) I really depends on the size chip you're talking about. Virtually all manufacturers who make EPROMs provide complete programming information in any data book that contains the chips. Contact Hitachi, TI, Samsung, Intel, Toshiba, and so on. Msg#:32622 *PROJECTS* 09/13/90 11:57:27 From: PAUL R. BINDLER To: ALL Subj: HAL4 I would like to use bio2.bas for Hal4, but there are some Basic Calls like InitComm. Where can I find these routines to use with Bio2.bas? Thanks for any help. --Psul Bindler-- Msg#:32625 *PROJECTS* 09/13/90 12:41:51 From: JEFF BACHIOCHI To: PAUL R. BINDLER (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 32622 (HAL4) Paul, Bio2.bas was uploaded to this BBS by Christopher Scavetto. His doc file (Bio2.doc) indicates the InitComm routine is used from the original HAL demo executable file, which you have. The source code for that module, which you don't have, is available for $20.00 (I think) from Micromint Inc. Just ask for HAL'S SOURCE CODE DISKETTE. You will need MASM, LINK, and QuickBASIC to recompile the original DEMO file BIO.EXE. jeff Msg#:32647 *PROJECTS* 09/14/90 09:13:58 From: PAUL R. BINDLER To: JEFF BACHIOCHI (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 32625 (HAL4) Thanks for the info. -- Paul -- Msg#:32756 *PROJECTS* 09/18/90 21:56:38 From: ROBERT HEAGEY To: ED NISLEY (Rcvd) Subj: DDT51 I'M HAVING PROBLEMS WITH THE DEBUG PROGRAM. IT WAS WORKING FINE WITH MY 286 MACHINE RUNNING AT 12 MHZ, BUT SINCE I BOUGHT A 386 RUNNING AT 25 MHZ, THE PROGRAM WILL NOT SINGLE STEP. IT ALWAYS EXECUTES 2 INSTRUCTIONS, THEN STOPS. THIS MAKES IT VERY DIFFICULT TO DEBUG CODE!! IS THERE A DIFFERENT VERSION OF DEBUG FOR HIGHER SPEED MACHINES?? ANY HELP WOULD BE APPRECIATED! P.S. I'M USING A BIDIRECTIONAL PRINTER PORT AND CABLE FROM CIRCUIT CELLAR. Msg#:32825 *PROJECTS* 09/21/90 10:36:22 From: ED NISLEY To: ROBERT HEAGEY (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 32756 (DDT51) That's the price of progress... Do you know what the I/O bus speed is? If it's much above 8 MHz, I'd worry that the port card (or some other card) can't keep up. I've used the code on a 20 MHz '386 with no trouble, but that was a Model 80, so all bets are off. Another thing that could go wrong is the pulse widths on the cable; I doubt this is the case because they're generated by Pascal routines (pronounced "slow"), but it might be worth checking to see if any glitches are showing up. Try adding a pair of 100 pF caps on the clock inputs to the System and Control latch registers; if nothing changes, pull 'em off again. You might also check the RD and WR inputs to the 8255, which can also catch glitches. That's about it... do a search through the message base (if you haven't already) for lots of discussion & hints & tips; some of the suggestions may give you some ideas for investigation. Msg#:32832 *PROJECTS* 09/21/90 22:38:58 From: ROBERT HEAGEY To: ED NISLEY (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 32825 (DDT51) Thanks for the information, I was hoping for an easy way out. Oh well, I guess I'll have to use my head!!! I've been using the DDT51 for over a year and never had any problems. If the recommendations for cable length and signal routing are followed, everything works great! Keep up the good work. Msg#:33918 *PROJECTS* 10/23/90 09:15:05 From: KENNETH SCHARF To: ROBERT HEAGEY Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 32756 (DDT51) If your machine has a de-turbo mode, try using it. Many bios' will activate the slow down mode by pressing (ie:<->) at the same time. My 386sx clone does this, and also has a turbo led and swithc on the panel. The de-turbo mode slows it down to 8mhz. Msg#:32831 *PROJECTS* 09/21/90 20:58:33 From: PAUL FLECK To: ALL Subj: IMAGEWISE I just got an imagewise digitizer/transmitter DT01 second hand and I hooked it up using a null modem cable to com1 it can grab a pictue using the grab command only one time when I try to grab another picture it says "Press Enter to grab image..." "Loading" It seems to lockup.I tried the reset button on the Imagewise nothing happens but if you turn the power off for a few seconds when I turn it back on it says "Too much data on line 0 1x rep 89 " " "Too many errors -- giving up! If anyone has any ideas it would make my day.I have Compaq deskpro 286 w/b&w VGA display I would like to set it up remotely with a modem??? Msg#:32907 *PROJECTS* 09/24/90 08:08:19 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: PAUL FLECK (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 32831 (IMAGEWISE) The problem is that your computer isn't talking to the ImageWise properly. The culprit could lie in any number of places. Is the cable good? (Before you answer, "Of course it is," please check it for real.) Is it connected to COM1? Is the ImageWise set for 28.8 kbps? Don't forget that it takes 12-20 seconds to transfer an image in the highest resolution at the fastest data rate. When the system just sits there waiting for an image, and you press a key to try to get it to do something, GRAB jumps out of the loop where it's waiting for a picture and trys to act on the data in memory. If it hasn't received anything, that data is going to be garbage, and you'll get all kinds of error messages. It helps to have a breakout box with LEDs in the serial line so you can see whether data is flowing. All you need to do to hook up the ImageWise to a modem is connect it to the modem with a straight-through cable and set the modem's switches to auto answer. When you call the setup from a remote location, you simply have to wait for the modems to get in sync, then request a picture. Be sure you do the math so you know how long you'll have to wait for a picture (e.g., for a 256x244 picture at 2400 bps, it will take as long as 4 minutes, 20 seconds). Msg#:32923 *PROJECTS* 09/24/90 16:53:10 From: BURT BROWN To: PAUL FLECK (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 32831 (IMAGEWISE) You may also want to modify the DT01 if you're going to use it exclusively with a modem. Run pin 8 (carrier detect) through one of the spare RS-232 line receivers (J1-8 to U7-4). Then connect the output of the line driver U7-13 to U8-12 and U8-13 (74LS00 wired as an inverter). Now connect the output of the 'LS00, U8-11, to U8-1 the RESET/ signal. This modification will hold the ImageWise transmitter in reset until the modem receives a carrier, preventing a potential "lock up" situation if the receiving modem drops the line before the picture is finished transmitting. --Burt Msg#:32889 *PROJECTS* 09/24/90 02:45:47 From: PAUL R. BINDLER To: JEFF BACHIOCHI (Rcvd) Subj: HAL4 I am interested in modifying the hal4 bio routine and linking it with the hal4 programs from cci. I have the bio.bas routine and I am familiar with basic programming, but not too much assembler. I have MASM 5.1 and LINK. What do I have to do to accomplish this. Any hlep in this matter would be appreciated. Thanks. --Paul-- Msg#:32913 *PROJECTS* 09/24/90 10:17:18 From: JEFF BACHIOCHI To: PAUL R. BINDLER (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 32889 (HAL4) Paul, The first thing you should do (I'll presume you have the source code diskette) is take the source code and recompile and link the files together to recreate the BIO.EXE file which was sent on the HAL demo disk. Only after you are familiar with this proceedure and understand how each routine works together to support the QB program can you begin to make alterations of your own design. This is not a simple task, but with some perseverence you can accomplish it. Good Luck, jeff Msg#:32914 *PROJECTS* 09/24/90 11:31:13 From: PAUL R. BINDLER To: JEFF BACHIOCHI (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 32913 (HAL4) Jeff Thanks for the info. I may have more questionsa as I try this. Can I contact you? Paul Msg#:32947 *PROJECTS* 09/25/90 08:22:08 From: JEFF BACHIOCHI To: PAUL R. BINDLER (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 32914 (HAL4) Paul, I'll help if I can. Don't forget to search past messages on HAL, HAL4, HAL-4 and other permutations! jeff Msg#:32953 *PROJECTS* 09/25/90 09:14:19 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: JEFF BACHIOCHI (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 32947 (HAL4) Doing a subject search on the string "HAL" will match all of those variations plus many others. Anytime you do a subject search, use the shortest search string possible in order to maximize your hits (of course, if it's too short, you'll get too much extra garbage, so you have to find a happy medium). Msg#:32968 *PROJECTS* 09/25/90 17:19:22 From: JEFF BACHIOCHI To: KEN DAVIDSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 32953 (HAL4) TNKS 4 da REeMndR Msg#:32971 *PROJECTS* 09/25/90 20:14:08 From: DAVE TELLING To: ALL Subj: VGA WITH SURPLUS MONITORS Hi, my name is Dave Telling. I just recently subscribed to CCI, and I saw the article about using surplus monitors with a VGA board. This is in issue 17. Does anyone know of a source of equipment such as the IBM PGA monitor mentioned? I live in Carson City, NV, and we do not have surplus electronics outlets of any kind in this area. If anyone knows where I could obtain one of these, along with a recommendation for an inexpensive VGA card, I'd sure appreciate it. Thanks much. Msg#:33038 *PROJECTS* 09/27/90 10:19:33 From: DAVID COLE To: JEFF BACHIOCHI (Rcvd) Subj: HAL 9/26/90 David M. Cole Studiotronics, Inc. 1035 S. Semoran Blvd. Suite 1031 Winter Park, FL 32792 phone: (407) 657-0677 fax: (407) 657-7018 Circuit Cellar Inc. 4 Park St. Suite 12 Vernon, Ct. 06066 Dear Sirs, We purchased and assembled the HAL - 4 sometime in the last year and have been discovering some interesting things with it and having a good time in the process. I appreciated the thoroughness of your assembly instructions, they made it easy for a novice. We are now starting to branch out in our research quests and have a few design interests incorporating the HAL - 4. I was hoping you could answer a couple of relevant technical questions. I am interested in the analog values ( voltage, current ) of the eight channels from the outputs of your filters and amplifiers prior to being digitized. Can these analog values be pulled form the J4 and J5 sockets that your notes say were used for design test points? The schematic depicts the channel output to be connected to these sockets and the board appears to be so wired. This one sounds a bit flaky, but do you know at what value ( voltage, current, or power -- whatever is appropriate ) it becomes dangerous for electrical stimulation to the cranium? It would be most helpful if you could answer any of these questions. Thank-you David Cole Msg#:33067 *PROJECTS* 09/28/90 08:53:55 From: JEFF BACHIOCHI To: DAVID COLE (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 33038 (HAL) David, Remember HAL is amplifying microvolts of activity across a pair of skin contacts into a maximum signal of about +/- 1 volts centered around 1/2 of VCC. This signal for each channel (pair of contacts) is available at J4/5. We do not recomend any electrical stimulus to any part of the body PERIOD. Electrical stimulus is now being used as a pain block by some patients in place of taking drugs. These are applied and controlled externally by the patient under doctor supervision. See your doctor for more information. Doctor Dougie jeff Msg#:33229 *PROJECTS* 10/05/90 02:21:15 From: TERRY SARE To: ED NISLEY (Rcvd) Subj: IMAGEWISE/PC I have a project where I need to consolidate monitoring of several terminals. It was strait forward until we discovered that one of the machines had only a keyboard input and a video output. Granted, it gave us Composite, Digital RGB (plasma display), and analog RGB. The problem is, how am I going to ship that video signal over 100 feet away and then display it on a AT video display without installing a video switch so that my host can display both its video and the remote video. Yuck! I need to use a EL or LCD display at my host. The video signal are not compatible! (Light Bulb lights!) The Imagewise/PC. Idea: I convert the video to NTSC and ship it via fiber optic to the IW card in the host. Now, is there a program that will allow the IW to display directly on the my host VGA display and since I need to update the display about every 1/10 sec or so, can I reduce the amount of data involved by reducing the gray scales to ON/OFF (remote screen is text only display). Humm, I wonder if this is like using a bulldozer to work in the garden. I have not done much with video, so this is going to be interesting - alternate ideas are always welcome. I am very curious if somebody else has run into this kind of problem. I am trying to use off-the-shelf products. By the way, does anybody make a analog RGB->NTSC converter? Thanks for any help you can give me. Terry. Msg#:33446 *PROJECTS* 10/10/90 08:17:19 From: ED NISLEY To: TERRY SARE (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 33229 (IMAGEWISE/PC) I'm not sure the Imagewise is the solution you need. There are at least two gotchas: the resolution isn't good enough and the data transfer rate will kill you. Remember that the Imagewise has only 256 dots across the screen. Even a CGA has 320 dots (or 640 in 80 character or B&W graphics modes), so all the characters won't fit. Next, transferring the data from the board to a VGA display just can't be done 10 times per second simply because the bus bandwidth isn't there: 10 updates/sec * 62 K bytes/update = 620 KB/sec. That's nearly all the bandwidth you've got in an AT, which leaves you nothing for the rest of the project... and writing the code would be a bear, too! You can get long-distance video buffers from the back pages of PC Magazine (or Black Box) that will do the deed. If you've got only one "odd" machine, replace it with one just like the rest and pocket the difference in aggravation. Honest! Video switches are cheap and easy to use... Msg#:33487 *PROJECTS* 10/11/90 00:59:01 From: TERRY SARE To: ED NISLEY (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 33446 (IMAGEWISE/PC) Alas, I forgot to tell you that the machine in question is a $1.5 mill simiconductor wafer machine and we cannot change anything on it nor can we run any TSR programs on the FC9801 (NEC clone - sorta). I did not think about the dot width not allowing display of 80 col. text. ouch!! The problem I had with video switch was that the LCD display on the host is not compatable with the analog RGB from the NEC and I need to use a display with low heat so I do not disturb the airflow. This ruled out CRT displays. I think I up the creek!!! Thanks for the help - Terry Msg#:33630 *PROJECTS* 10/15/90 09:20:30 From: ED NISLEY To: TERRY SARE (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 33487 (IMAGEWISE/PC) Time for a special deal on paddles... Msg#:33277 *PROJECTS* 10/06/90 02:07:49 From: GEORGE LOYER To: KEN DAVIDSON (Rcvd) Subj: DEVELOPER TOOLS FOR 8051 ON MAC Ken, Hope you can direct me if you don't possess the info. I'm building a project to do telescope drive control using the BCC52 board. The project needs BASIC plus assembler (for interrupt routines at a couple of levels). I've about had it trying to fit the assembler source into 2K of edit space with TEDIT. I found the ad in the last issue for Micro Dialects cross assemblers for the Macintosh in the latest issue and have sent for the data sheets. Can you direct me to any other sources of those kind of tools? Oh, i notice i didn't mention that i'm doing the development on the mac - haven't caved in to get a pc too, but all the tools seem to be available only for the pc. thanks in advance for any help you can offer. Msg#:33352 *PROJECTS* 10/08/90 10:09:47 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: GEORGE LOYER (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 33277 (DEVELOPER TOOLS FOR 8051 ON MAC) You've about hit it on the head. The IBM PC and the Mac each do certain things very well, and most application programming tends to concentrate on those areas. The Mac does almost anything graphical very well, especially in the area of graphical layout and prepress production. The PC does text-based applications very well, including word processing, accounting, database management, and, yes, code development for other processors. Try to cross the line and do something on one that is better suited to the other, and you'll find your hands tied. (Don't *ever* try to lay out a magazine using a PC.) All our cross-development experience is with products on the PC, so I can't help you much with Mac products. Msg#:33540 *PROJECTS* 10/12/90 11:35:29 From: BURT BROWN To: GEORGE LOYER (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 33277 (DEVELOPER TOOLS FOR 8051 ON MAC) I have the MicroDialects cross assembler for the 68HC11 and it seems like a very nice product. I have only used it to make changes/additions to some existing code (~7000 lines) but there haven't been any problems thus far. --Burt Msg#:33566 *PROJECTS* 10/13/90 02:32:30 From: GEORGE LOYER To: BURT BROWN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 33540 (DEVELOPER TOOLS FOR 8051 ON MAC) thanks...i just got the flyer for their stuff and found that it takes minimum of 1Meg in a MacPlus. my tired old Fat Mac is becoming harder and harder to find *real* software that will run on it. more reason to consider a clone of some kind for me and an upgrade or trade-in for my artist wife. george Msg#:33633 *PROJECTS* 10/15/90 09:21:13 From: ED NISLEY To: GEORGE LOYER (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 33566 (DEVELOPER TOOLS FOR 8051 ON MAC) Guys, I'm not going to say anything at all about how this type of problem doesn't come up if you've got a PC... but it would be nice if some of you IBM-bashers came out of the closet to explain why he's got to junk a whole computer just to run new software... Msg#:33701 *PROJECTS* 10/16/90 22:48:56 From: FRANK HENRIQUEZ To: ED NISLEY (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 33633 (DEVELOPER TOOLS FOR 8051 ON MAC) Ed, you really don't want to know why, you just want to do some Mac bashing... but I'll quote my (almost) neighbor Ron Reagan "Well, there he goes again". George Loyer's Mac is a very obsolete machine - a "fat" Mac is either a 128 Mac upgraded to 512, or a plain 512 machine. It's PC equivalent would be a PC-1 with 256K of RAM, and single sided drives. Very few development systems would run on such a machine, and the minimum upgrade - more RAM, new drives, etc. would cost about as much as upgrading an old Mac to a Mac Plus or equivalent (1 meg of RAM, double sided drives). I remember your message waay back where you complained that the Mac was a single source machine, and that was always a bad thing, compared to the multiple source PC. So, what's MS-DOS but a proprietary operating system? and I'm not sure that having a multiple source for the hardware is such a good thing - some guys at work bought a 386 system at a great price, from your average clonemeister. It came with a 2 year guarantee, and room for 4 megs of ram. Not bad. Of course, when it came time to upgrade the memory, they discovered that the PALs on the motherboard would not recognize the extra ram...no big deal, just call the company...but the company was out of business, less than 6 months after they had bought their system. I helped them trace the motherboard company to some obscure Taiwan shop (typical for most PCs), but by then the only options seemed to be either living with a limited amount of ram, or buying a new motherboard - $1500 for a 4 meg upgrade? Eventually, I tracked down someone who had a copy of the new PALs, and we got everything to work. If you add up the time both of us spent solving this minor problem, it would have been a *very* expensive memory upgrade. You get what you pay for; you buy a cheap computer, you get a cheap computer... Msg#:33761 *PROJECTS* 10/18/90 14:41:04 From: ED NISLEY To: FRANK HENRIQUEZ (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 33701 (DEVELOPER TOOLS FOR 8051 ON MAC) Of _course_ I want to do some Mac bashing... it's almost as much fun as IBM bashing! You'd be amazed at how many letters Steve gets from people in the "I got this great deal on my Bongotronic Clone, but now I bought a Widgimatic board and it doesn't work... what do I do now?" boat. The answer, unfortunately, is that there is no good solution; you wind up junking either the Bongotronic or Widgitronic. Given the profusion of weird 80386 designs, I don't think there are any generic clones left; they all have screwball memory expansion buses. But my point stands: by and large, you can expand an old PC... you can't expand an old Mac. Sigh. Msg#:33777 *PROJECTS* 10/19/90 03:35:05 From: FRANK HENRIQUEZ To: ED NISLEY (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 33761 (DEVELOPER TOOLS FOR 8051 ON MAC) Ed, you're wrong. Expanding an old Mac is not much more difficult or expensive than expanding an old PC. And once you get the Mac up to a baseline MacPlus level, it becomes even easier (mainly because of the higher capacity floppies, and a few other features). You can add 68020 and 68030 boards to a Plus that cost *much* less than a 286 or 386 motherboard upgrade to a PC, and you still get to keep the Mac Plus part. I think PCs are great for some things - running BBSes, for instance. Basically, if an application requires very little direct interaction with a human (a BBS runs through the serial ports) then PCs are great for the task. If the task requires a great deal of visually oriented work, or any amount of creativity, a Mac can't be beat. Msg#:33819 *PROJECTS* 10/20/90 14:34:07 From: GEORGE LOYER To: FRANK HENRIQUEZ (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 33777 (DEVELOPER TOOLS FOR 8051 ON MAC) well thanks, guys, for all of this concern! i'll be getting in on my company's demo from apple of their new stuff this week and trying to make a decision on whether to spend about $1800 on my 512K Mac ($600 to upgrade the mother board - i already have the 800K disks, $600 to get up to 1Mb and $600 for some size hard disk - all dealer prices) or a bit more to move into the color world with mac ii-level hardware. i have to agree that i've allowed myself to get bypassed over time with this hardware, and it's only now that most software coming out is requiring the upgrade. my wife's an artist who uses the system to grab images from the television to work from, and is fully enamoured with the mac products, so it'll be something in that line, and maybe a (not-so) cheap clone (to avoid some of the upgrade pain there!)... george Msg#:33883 *PROJECTS* 10/22/90 14:42:18 From: ED NISLEY To: FRANK HENRIQUEZ (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 33777 (DEVELOPER TOOLS FOR 8051 ON MAC) Ah, it all depends on how old that "old Mac" is... If you start with the _original_ old Mac (as a friend of mine thought he would, having been one of the "original users" and having a pair of the things on hand), it turns out that it's nowhere near as simple as plugging a new board into an I/O expansion slot. Turned out to be easier and (roughly) cheaper to buy a whole new Mac. If you start with a Mac that was designed after the "there will be only one configuration" mentality went out, I suppose it's a wash. I'll agree that an I/O slot is an I/O slot regardless of whether it's kinda NuBus or sorta ISA-ish; not having the slot makes things more complex. Now, in truth, the correct upgrade for an original PC is much the same thing: you jack up the dust layer and slide a new PC underneath. Makes a lot of sense, too: you get all the latest gewgaws and doohickies built right into the box, you don't have to fiddle around with compatibility issues (as your code all stops working at once and it's obvious what you did!), and you have a shiny new ego charger on your desk. Msg#:33921 *PROJECTS* 10/23/90 09:25:33 From: KENNETH SCHARF To: GEORGE LOYER (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 33277 (DEVELOPER TOOLS FOR 8051 ON MAC) AS steve said in issue #17 (i think) a computer is a computer. The only difference between what a pc can do and what a mac can do is in the software. With windows 3, or newwave, the pc can handle graphics just like the mac (well, almost just like the mac. God help anyone who copies the look and feel! They will be smitten with a law suit in apples choice of color and fabric!) Programs for desktop publishing are available for the pc as well as the mac. Both get the job done well, the user interface is a matter of choice. The only problem with the mac's is that you have to buy the more expensive II models if you want to plug in any custom hardware. (Well usually. Special kludges are available for the cheaper macs). My point is that BOTH machines can do anything. It's just a matter of SOMEONE sitting down an writting some software! Msg#:33378 *PROJECTS* 10/08/90 23:44:27 From: DAVID SENN To: ALL Subj: OKI PART SOURCE I'm looking for a source for the OKI 6242B clock/calender chip used in several of the Circuit Cellar projects. Thanks. Msg#:33394 *PROJECTS* 10/09/90 09:06:24 From: JEFF BACHIOCHI To: DAVID SENN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 33378 (OKI PART SOURCE) David, Micromint sells it for $25. It includes the OKI chip, an xtal, battery, and afew other components to help you complete your circuit. RTCIO-E1 option. jeff Msg#:33413 *PROJECTS* 10/09/90 21:36:10 From: FRANK KUECHMANN To: DAVID SENN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 33378 (OKI PART SOURCE) You might try Micromint or CCI for that chip. Advanced Computer Products catalog has a variant of the OKI 6242 with the 32.768 KHz crystal built-in called the RTC 62421. I think the variant is made by Epson America, which currently supplies a version of the functionally somewhat similar OKI 58321 with a built-in xtal. Advanced Computer Products 1310 E Edinger Santa Ana CA 92705 714/558-8813 800/366-3227 Msg#:33522 *PROJECTS* 10/11/90 22:56:44 From: DAVID SENN To: JEFF BACHIOCHI (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 33394 (OKI PART SOURCE) Jeff; Thanks for the help. Dave. Msg#:33524 *PROJECTS* 10/11/90 22:58:04 From: DAVID SENN To: FRANK KUECHMANN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 33413 (OKI PART SOURCE) Frank: Thanks for the help. Dave. Msg#:33536 *PROJECTS* 10/12/90 07:57:16 From: JON LUSK To: ALL Subj: VEHICLE ANNOUNCER I went to order a "Vehicle Announcer" as described by Steve in CC Ink from Sporty's. They said that the manufacturer was no longer making it!! They would not give me the name of who made it. Does anyone have a source or the name of who makes it? Msg#:33544 *PROJECTS* 10/12/90 12:05:56 From: STEVE CIARCIA To: JON LUSK (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 33536 (VEHICLE ANNOUNCER) Shortly after I published what you read I tried to buy another sensor and found out what you did. Since then, I have found another device, called Drive Alert, which does the same thing -- sells for $179.95. It is sold by Surplus Center, 800-228-3407. Item 29-B-031. They also have lots of other security stuff. --Steve Msg#:33779 *PROJECTS* 10/19/90 08:20:23 From: JON LUSK To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 33544 (VEHICLE ANNOUNCER) Thanks Steve for the info - I would like to try and get it installed before the snows come --- Jon Msg#:33552 *PROJECTS* 10/12/90 16:44:12 From: JAY RIECHEL To: ALL Subj: ANOTHER DDT51 NOVICE NEEDS HELP. I am attempting to get my recently assembled DDT-51 to work. My target system is a simple wire-wrapped job based mostly on the RTC-51 design. I only have the 8051, 74373, 6264 (and a 7408 to AND ~PSEN and ~RD into ~GET.) When I run checkddt, I get the following results: . . Verify Target Ram OK Exercize Target Ram Verify Target Ram step scramble = Addr 00FF is FA should be 4A data Error B0 address error 50 Addr 01FF is FA should be 4A data Error B0 address error 50 Addr 02FF is FA should be 4A data Error B0 address error 50 Addr 03FF is FA should be 4A data Error B0 address error 50 Addr 04FF is FA should be 4A data Error B0 address error 50 Addr 05FF is FA should be 4A data Error B0 address error 50 Addr 06FF is FA should be 4A data Error B0 address error 50 Addr 07FF is FA should be 4A data Error B0 address error 50 Verify debug ram ok, no errors Loop 2, scramble is F8 Verify target ram Addr 00FF is FA should be F7 data Error B0 address error FD Addr 01FF is FA should be F7 data Error B0 address error FD Addr 02FF is FA should be F7 data Error B0 address error FD Addr 03FF is FA should be F7 data Error B0 address error FD Addr 04FF is F2 should be F7 data Error 05 address error 05 Addr 05FF is FA should be F7 data Error B0 address error FD Addr 06FF is FA should be F7 data Error B0 address error FD Addr 07FF is FA should be F7 data Error B0 address error FD Checkddt works fine when I put the 6264 in the DDT51 socket, suggesting to me that there may be an address line wiring problem in the target board...? Debug 31 apparently loads the kernal ok, as well as blinky. However, my LED on p3.4 isnt blinking, and pressing F10 causes the following to be displayed: "8031 did not halt in time" Is it practical for me to be attempting this type of project at home without scopes and logic analyzers? I am more familiar with software by trade, and my practical EE experience is limited to an EE survey course as an undergrad, and some hobbyist level tinkering. Any helpful comments would be greatly appreciated. I'll be calling back in a few days, or you can call me at work, (818)773-5531 7:30-4pm (pacific), or at home eves & weekends (805)584-8707 (pacific). Thanks in advance! Jay Riechel :^) Msg#:33635 *PROJECTS* 10/15/90 09:21:57 From: ED NISLEY To: JAY RIECHEL (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 33552 (ANOTHER DDT51 NOVICE NEEDS HELP.) First thing to do is to download the project files (see the Files and Notes areas) and read 'em; there's a lot of helpful hints to get you started. What I bet is wrong is that you don't disable the Target RAM for addresses above 8000 hex; remember that the DDT-51 system needs exclusive access to 8000-9FFF for the Debug RAM. Use A15 to disable the Target RAM (A15 goes to -CE) and you'll probably find that it works OK. Msg#:33605 *PROJECTS* 10/14/90 17:00:03 From: ERIC WARREN BROWN To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: BCC52 -> SPEECH -> TELEPHON I'm looking for a good article written on interfacing a speech synthesizer to a telephone line (and to your BCC52 - for ease of programming) for remote indication of wind speed/direction. If you've written something about speech or telephone interface, could you tell me where and how to get a back issue. Any info would be a big help. Thanks - Eric. Msg#:33643 *PROJECTS* 10/15/90 10:06:37 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: ERIC WARREN BROWN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 33605 (BCC52 -> SPEECH -> TELEPHON) Take a look at the November '85 issue of BYTE for a description of the MOSART modem. It also has built into it a speech synthesizer and a registered telephone interface. The BCC18 board plugs into the BCC bus with the BCC52 and can have two MOSARTs on the board. It's not all that inexpensive, but it will do what you're looking for off the shelf. Msg#:33648 *PROJECTS* 10/15/90 10:55:15 From: STEVE CIARCIA To: ERIC WARREN BROWN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 33605 (BCC52 -> SPEECH -> TELEPHON) Coincidentally, I have presented a projects that does infact monitor wind speed and direction and give a voice output. I sent it to an FM radio. The project was called "Build a Computerized Weather Station". You'll find this project in Ciarcia's Circuit Cellar Volume 4 but I suggest you also get Volume 3 which contains more voice synthesis stuff. --Steve Msg#:33756 *PROJECTS* 10/18/90 10:31:27 From: MATTHEW KASTIGAR To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 27154 (LASER DIODES) Steve- Information on laser diodes - have much. Also, The Optical Society of America is more than willing to provide info for FREE! The info is from their experiments along with that of members. If anyone is interested in the physics of solid-state lasers, contact me. Also, my wife is a former (last Reduction In Force) employee- researching high-power solid-state diodes... for MDC here in St. Louis. Call or leave message here- I'll check in every week or so. -Matt. Msg#:33783 *PROJECTS* 10/19/90 09:30:55 From: STEVE CIARCIA To: MATTHEW KASTIGAR (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 33756 (LASER DIODES) I'm very interested. How shall we proceed? --Steve Msg#:33864 *PROJECTS* 10/22/90 03:02:24 From: EDDIE WHITE To: ALL Subj: TERM-MITE I was re-reading the Term-Mite project and I wondering about a couple of things. The article talked of the NS455, but the project used a NS405 and a 2k rom. If one was going to build the project, which chip is the one to use for the screens that were printed in the article? Also, if you were to emulate another terminal (say the Heath H19), would you need an 8748 xasm or could you hand code the rom? thanks, Eddie Msg#:33881 *PROJECTS* 10/22/90 12:29:52 From: CRAIG TIANO To: ALL Subj: NEED MC68705 I need a MC68705 pre-programmed with the timer software from issue 17. My Eprom programmer won't do this part. Anybody want to help out a very frustrated tinkerer and make a few bucks in the process? My work number is 215-354-0330, or you can post a message here and I'll check back in a week or two. thanx in advance, Craig Msg#:33895 *PROJECTS* 10/22/90 20:50:36 From: SANJAYA VATUK To: CRAIG TIANO (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 33881 (NEED MC68705) No problem. Give me a call at 708-771-1928 (home) any reasonable time. Do you have the chip? (I have some if you don't) --Sanj Msg#:34220 *PROJECTS* 10/31/90 16:27:32 From: CRAIG TIANO To: SANJAYA VATUK (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 33895 (NEED MC68705) Will call you...thanx! Msg#:33916 *PROJECTS* 10/23/90 09:03:07 From: TOM HAMMOND To: ALL Subj: WORTHWHILE PATCH FOR CCSP ROM V1.6 Ref.: CCSP8149.ARC This is a VERY worthwhile patch to Steve Ciarcia's code for CCSP ROM v1.6...! NOTE: This is for version 1.6 ONLY!!! The patch appears to do only one thing, but it does it very well. It replaces Ciarcia's BASIC routine for generating the Intel HEX file information (for UPLOADING to your PC) with a machine code routine which speeds up this operation many times. One of my major complaints about version 1.6 (and older versions) of the general release software was the brutally slow generation of the Intel HEX file data for uploading to the terminal. This was one of those deals where you could go out to lunch while a large file was sent to the PC from the CCSP. Now, with the author's patches, the file which once took neigh on to an hour to upload now takes a matter of minutes to accomplish the same task. This REALLY takes the drudgery out of saving your HEX code to disk. So far I've not been able to find any bugs in the patched software. It performs exactly as advertised, and with no apparent flaws. Msg#:33922 *PROJECTS* 10/23/90 09:27:20 From: STEVE CIARCIA To: TOM HAMMOND (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 33916 (WORTHWHILE PATCH FOR CCSP ROM V1.6) Thanks for the patch. Just for the record, the blazingly fast hardware is mine and the brutally slow BASIC is Bill Curlew's. Of course, I told him he had to write it in BASIC :-) --Steve Msg#:33963 *PROJECTS* 10/24/90 22:39:14 From: DAVID SPARGUR To: DDT51ERS Subj: EPROM BURNS All the 2764 type data sheets I've seen spec 6 Volts VCC during programming. (Intel, National, AMD) Is it OK to cut the VCC to the EPROM during burns and connect it to 6 V while the rest of the DDT51 runs off 5VCC or is there some 2764 out there that uses 5VCC during programming? The sheets say the 6V VCC is to insure sufficient thresholds. Msg#:33974 *PROJECTS* 10/25/90 08:43:29 From: KENNETH SCHARF To: DAVID SPARGUR Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 33963 (EPROM BURNS) The 2764 CAN be programmed at 5v using the standard 50ms pulse per byte method. The 6v (6.25v for PLASTIC ONE TIME PROGRAM parts) are for the intelegent and quick pulse methods. These modified programing methods allow for faster programing of the parts, but the standard method still works fine, just is slower. See the Intel memory manual for more details. Msg#:34033 *PROJECTS* 10/26/90 17:17:47 From: ROBERT WILLIAMSON To: JEFF BACHIOCHI (Rcvd) Subj: SCROLLING LED SIGN Dear Jeff, I'm sorry about the delayed reply, Things have been a bit hectic here. So much so that I forgot my original password and couldn't log in to "officially" receive my mail. I left a message for the SYSOP to delete me so I can start over. I appreciate the information that you and Ed passed on about my idea for substituting incandescent for LEDs. Unfortunately I've looked at several large signs using Ed's flip-flop arrangement. There is no way I'm going to maintain 1920 SSR's and 1920 light bulbs. Everyone I talked to with one of those signs had boxes of bulbs and boxes of TO-2 packaged plug-in relays. If there is no better architecture available ......this project is Kaput. I think I'm going to try the same connection approach, substituting SSR's for the 2222's and flashlight bulbs for the LED's. I'll either use the same scanning scheme and add a logical latch to all SSR's so that the bulbs can ignore the strobing between "real" updates and perhaps slow down the refresh rate to accommodate the bulbs duty cycle. My other problem is which "52" to buy. Micromint says that the BCC52 is a good development platform for the RTC but the BCC won't program a 32K Eprom. Is there a simple Eprom programmer I could get which would program 8's, 16's, and 32's. I don't understand why a single "52" development system won't program all the different Eproms (or EEproms) that the RTC52 uses. Thanks, Bob Msg#:34098 *PROJECTS* 10/29/90 09:49:24 From: JEFF BACHIOCHI To: ROBERT WILLIAMSON Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 34033 (SCROLLING LED SIGN) Robert, Since the 52 & 52C use 64's & 128's, that's what it was designed to burn. The 52CX uses 256's and was designed for burning only the 32K devices. Because the control lines for programming are a bit different between 8/16K and 32K devices the extra support was not included for devices not supported. Micromint does make a Serial Eprom Programmer, which will handle all of the above mentioned devices. With the SEP or any other programmer on the market, you can take the Intel.HEX file created by the BASIKIT software used with an RTC52, and get your code into an EPROM. RTC52 was designed for maximum flexability and minimum cost, sans programmer. jeff Once you take a cost/channel analyst and multiply it by the array size, you get permanently stunned! Msg#:34101 *PROJECTS* 10/29/90 11:13:31 From: ED NISLEY To: ROBERT WILLIAMSON Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 34033 (SCROLLING LED SIGN) There's an existence theorem for you... "everybody has boxes of bulbs and boxes of relays" The reason they need boxes of spares is that those signs are really using components outside their optimum design points. The highest-stress condition for a filament occurs just after you turn it on, when it's going from stone-cold to white hot... and that puts stress on the relays, which must handle that inrush current. A scrolling sign flips the bulbs on an off at an incredible rate; I suspect those bulbs are specially-built (and priced!) for the application. The reason you need a relay (mechanical or SSR) for each bulb is that a filament doesn't duty-cycle modulate like an LED: you can't crank up the current to compensate for a short ON time. Which means you need a latch behind each relay, which means you need a bunch of 8255s (or whatever equivalent you want to use). And that means you don't have a "scanning" architecture any more; you can update each bulb only when it changes... which may make things simpler! Before you built anything fancy, set up a test fixture that turns a bank of, say, ten flashlight bulbs on and off at about the same rate as you plan to scan the sign. See how long they last... then decide whether to continue. I suspect they'll give out in a matter of hours; the design point for a flashlight bulb is a few hours of life with maybe a few hundred on-off cycles. Think about how you use a flashlight before you buy a bunch of parts. Msg#:34130 *PROJECTS* 10/29/90 13:41:49 From: KENNETH SCHARF To: ROBERT WILLIAMSON Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 34033 (SCROLLING LED SIGN) If you are thinking about 117v bulbs, there are several types of rough duty bulbs made. The 'trouble' lamp fixture (hanging on a hook) used in auto shops and such uses such a rough duty bulb. They use a heavy duty filament that can handle shocks. I had to put such a bulb in my garage door opener to get any life out of it (the motor shakes the hell out of the bulb!). Msg#:34307 *PROJECTS* 11/03/90 08:09:54 From: PELLERVO KASKINEN To: ROBERT WILLIAMSON Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 34033 (SCROLLING LED SIGN) I was planning to have the part number info by today, but of course failed to bring it from work. In any case it looks to me like TI has just the answer to your problem. They introduced an 8-line power driver chip that uses serial data in (and out) with a clock line and latch enable line. What all this means, you can easily daisy chain them. So, you could have just 240 devices in eight daisy chains. The data can be clocked in at very high speeds - something like 1 MHz - and the drivers have their internal current limit for each pin. One application example they give is for incandescent bulbs and they let the current limit drop the supply off and then refire on the next data round and the filament gets hotter and hotter until it does not cause the current limit trip but stays on. That may be extreme, but the idea is interesting. The chip has 15 legs and otherwise resembles a TO-202 plastic package with the metal tab for heat sinking. I got a sample with the data and an application note, so it is for real, although I forgot to write down the part number. -- PJK Msg#:34080 *PROJECTS* 10/28/90 04:03:30 From: DARROW COLE To: ALL Subj: DREAM RESEARCH WITH THE HAL4 I am interested in hearing from anyone with dream research knowledge. I am using the HAL4 as an aid in my own research. Please note that I am NOT talking about trying to correlate brainwaves to thoughts or dreams. My first task is to use the HAL4 to monitor for time domain muscle noise from eye movement. I hope to be able to discover time and duration of REM sleep by going over the data the next morning. Once this is done, I will have the computer wake me at the end of each REM sleep period during the night (3 - 5 times). The second task is to create a hypnogogic extension aid. In other words, an aid to maintaining the state in which you are neither awake nor asleep. Hypnogogic refers to this state, the transition period between conciousness and sleep. I wish to measure body parameters (EEG, galvanic skin resistance, or something) and have the computer "nudge" me back into the hypnogogic state each time that I start to drift off to sleep. Concious response to a periodic computer triggered tone might be one approach, but I not sure if physical movement is acceptable when delving into this area. Such movement would be monitored by the computer and would "tell" it that I had not fallen asleep. So the question comes down to: How can I measure a transition from the hypnogogic state to sleep? Any ideas or references to literature (EG: Lucid Dreaming) will be appreciated. I will post REM sleep detection code for the HAL4 as it is developed. Lucid Dreams! Msg#:34082 *PROJECTS* 10/28/90 06:39:41 From: FRANK HENRIQUEZ To: DARROW COLE (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 34080 (DREAM RESEARCH WITH THE HAL4) That sounds very interesting. The guy who did the original work on Lucid Dreaming just came out with a popularization of his work. It appears that the book is being sold as some New Age nonsense (which it isn't). I've had frequent "lucid dreams" since childhood, but it wasn't until I read this guy's work, some 8 - 10 years ago that I realized it was a Good Thing to be able to do. A computerized way to induce lucid dreaming sounds great. You could try what the guy did for his Ph.D thesis - print out his name in Morse Code during "sleep" by making a transducer 9I think it was measuring muscle contractions) output spell it out. There's one form of lucid dreaming (stupid name!) that is pretty scary if you're not expecting it. Sometimes, you can become fully awake and alert before your body does, and you'll experience a frightening sense of paralysis, that quickly goes away as the rest of your body wakes up. Msg#:34142 *PROJECTS* 10/29/90 17:21:24 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: FRANK HENRIQUEZ (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 34082 (DREAM RESEARCH WITH THE HAL4) Do you have a title and author for that book? Sounds interesting. Msg#:34154 *PROJECTS* 10/30/90 02:35:18 From: FRANK HENRIQUEZ To: KEN DAVIDSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 34142 (DREAM RESEARCH WITH THE HAL4) I'll look it up; I saw it at a Crown Books, under the Psychobabble/New Age nonsense section. Msg#:34192 *PROJECTS* 10/31/90 02:00:29 From: FRANK HENRIQUEZ To: KEN DAVIDSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 34142 (DREAM RESEARCH WITH THE HAL4) Ken: I found the book. It's called "Exploring the World of Lucid Dreaming" by Stephen LaBerge & Howard Rheingold. I suggest a disguise when buying this book...you're bound to get comments like "Sir, we have a new batch or (of) Shirley McLaine books...". Msg#:34201 *PROJECTS* 10/31/90 08:53:08 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: FRANK HENRIQUEZ (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 34192 (DREAM RESEARCH WITH THE HAL4) Thanks. Time for a trip to the mall... Msg#:34221 *PROJECTS* 10/31/90 16:32:41 From: BOB PADDOCK To: DARROW COLE (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 34080 (DREAM RESEARCH WITH THE HAL4) The following information about Sleep is available from: REX Research PO Box 19250 Jean, NV 89019 REX Research is basically a library of off the wall information (From ABRAMS, Dr. Albert: THE OSCILLOCLAST to ZINSSER, Rudolph: KINETO-BARIC FORCE ect..), if you are looking for some thing strange they have it, or can point you to it. (Other than buying most every thing they have I have no connection with them.) SLEEP -- Sleep is the best drug.. Now you can control that missing quarter of your life without drugs! Here's how to sleep well in as little as 4 hours/day..best bed designs & characteristics..Anti-snoring pillows..Sleep cycles (natural & controlled).. Chrono-therapy for insomnia.. Pheneizine vs nightmares.. Sleep apnea..Snoring cures..Temperature & sleep.. Sodium & sleep.. Tryptophan..Herbs.. Electro-sleep.. Jet-lag regimens & more! 75 Articles (50 pp.) Price: $7 E11-ELS Electro-Sleep --- Low-frecuency, low-voltage, low current electric & magnetic pulses applied to the head will produce artificial sleep within a few minutes.. Here's a way to add hours to your day, at least once in a while. It works, but it's not a preferable lifestyle. 5 Articles, 1 US Patten, 2 Soviet reports, and 4 schematics.. Price: $8 As a warning mucking around with sending signales into the body can be dangerous: I1-INF INFRASOUND--Infrasonics are frequencies below 20 Hz, the lower end of human audibility. Affects behavior, induces illness, and can kill. Here are 10 articles concerning the occurrence, detection, generation, rectification, and shielding of infrasound, and its physiological effects, ect.. Price: $10 Msg#:34225 *PROJECTS* 10/31/90 17:41:17 From: DALE NASSAR To: BOB PADDOCK (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 34221 (DREAM RESEARCH WITH THE HAL4) A few years ago I started tampering (by thought experiment) with dreams. It started when I began having a recurring nightmare which put me in a particular situation that I had always feared. At first I would always wake up, take a couple of seconds to come to, and burst into a feeling of vast relief. Later things got worse--and I started dreaming that I woke up and the situation was real. The chain of cascaded dreams grew longer until it became very difficult (at the time of dreaming and awakening) to distinguish between dream- land and reality--a VERY strange feeling! At this point I decided to figure out a way to let myself know when I was dreaming. I recalled that in dreams things can be very "out- of-place" to say the least; so I decided that a 'comparison of observed surrounding objects to what they should look like' may work. So (after several other schemes), I enabled the hourly chime on my watch, and at every beep I would take a good look around me paying attention to minute details of everything and ask myself "is everything normal? if not, then I could be dreaming" If you sleep with your watch on and continue doing this you will eventually ask yourself this question during a dream--then things can really get WICKED! The first time that it worked (I dreamed many times before it worked), I saw all the grass on the lawn gray instead of green and there was a night sky in the middle of the day--I knew I was dreaming!! The feeling is indescribable. I 'made' an old wooden chair (which didn't belong there) float several feet in the air--when I tried to think it down it just started spinning into a brown blur and would not come down. I did not have total control my actions in the dream even though I knew I was dreaming. Contrary to what I thought, after doing this several times (and experiencing some other really bizarre things), it progressively becomes more difficult. I found that my dreams were becoming much more clear and with detail and color-- which made the comparison harder. It seems that this is something nature does not want to happen and reacts to accordingly. --Dale Msg#:34163 *PROJECTS* 10/30/90 12:04:00 From: JEFFREY SHAPIRO To: ALL Subj: DAA (DATA ACCESS ARRANGEMENT) Hello, I am new to the BBS and I am having a problem finding a part I need. I am building a circuit to interface my PC to the telephone line. I have a A/D and D/A board and I am basically building a voice- mail system. To interface to the line I need a DAA. It basically goes from 2 wires (the phone companies wires in the wall) to 4 wires. 2 for microphone and 2 for speaker. Steve gave a source (Cermetek) for a DAA but the price is $90! Where have you seen a phone for $90. There have to be either cheaper circuits that do the same thing or cheaper distributers. The article also mentioned trying the phone company. HA! I've been calling for 3 days talking to one bozo after another and getting transferred endlessly. If anyone has any information, it would greatly be appreciated. Thank You, Jeff Shapiro Msg#:34167 *PROJECTS* 10/30/90 12:32:09 From: BOB PADDOCK To: JEFFREY SHAPIRO (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 34163 (DAA (DATA ACCESS ARRANGEMENT)) All of that red tape for $.01 stickers that say FCC-Approved, add up to $90. If you are selling a zillon phones you can amertize the red tape cost accross all of the phones that you sell. If you don't need FCC approvale (Which legally you must have) you can build a DAA from a couple of OP-AMPS, and a 600:600 Ohm transformer. Look at for example DAA circuits in MODEM data books. For example the TMC3505 shows a typical DAA. The person that you need to talk to at the phone company has a unlisted number, unlisted under some else name.... Msg#:34174 *PROJECTS* 10/30/90 15:45:42 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: JEFFREY SHAPIRO (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 34163 (DAA (DATA ACCESS ARRANGEMENT)) Xecom and Dallas Semiconductor have DAAs in a more reasonable price range ($20-$40). Give them a shout. Xecom, Inc. Dallas Semiconductor 374 Turquoise St. 4401 South Beltwood Pkwy. Milpitas, CA 95035 Dallas, TX 75244-3292 (408) 945-6640 (214) 450-0448 Msg#:34226 *PROJECTS* 10/31/90 18:00:42 From: ANDY MEYER To: JEFFREY SHAPIRO (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 34163 (DAA (DATA ACCESS ARRANGEMENT)) Jeff; I think the reason you're being shuffled "from bozo to bozo" is that DAA's aren't as common as they once were. You could probably get away with using a pair of 8:600 ohm transformers. Put the 600 ohm side in line with one of the phone wires (tip or ring, take your choice) and the 8 ohm side to your speaker/mic leads. (I've not used a pair, but I've found that one of these transformers connected in this fashion is *much* better for making a recording of a phone conversation than those silly suction cup devices.) BTW, you may also have difficulty finding 8:600 ohm transformers, but they are much easier to find than DAA's. Good hunting! ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Msg#:34272 *PROJECTS* 11/02/90 08:55:58 From: KENNETH SCHARF To: ALL Subj: PC PROGRAMING PROBLEM I need a way to generate strobe pulses in software on a PC clone. What I am doing is designing a universal prom programmer using the parallel interface from the ddt-51, combined with the prom logic from the SEP II. I need a way to generate a program "delay" in 100 micro second intevals. Software loops are OK, IF you know the clock speed of the cpu. I need a machine independant way of doing this. Any ideas? Msg#:34364 *PROJECTS* 11/05/90 19:13:27 From: TIMOTHY TAYLOR To: KENNETH SCHARF (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 34272 (PC PROGRAMING PROBLEM) As always (which usaually gets me into trouble ) this is off the top of my head, but the original XT had an 8253 programmable interval timer which may do the trick for you. I'm not sure what the AT type machines had inside for their timing. Forget about using the RTC, the resolution jsut isn't what you need.... Msg#:34462 *PROJECTS* 11/08/90 11:57:47 From: ED NISLEY To: KENNETH SCHARF (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 34272 (PC PROGRAMING PROBLEM) I've done a couple of articles and columns dealing with precision timing; it all started in Issue 2 with the Bottle Rocket project. The PC X-10 driver uses those timers to generate precise delays and intervals, but I don't remember which issue that one showed up in. Basically, the timers tick once a microsecond and you just read them on the fly to figure out what time it is. Delays are a little tricky on slower PCs because you have so few instructions to play with, but it can be done. Msg#:34513 *PROJECTS* 11/10/90 06:34:31 From: PELLERVO KASKINEN To: KENNETH SCHARF (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 34272 (PC PROGRAMING PROBLEM) You have different ways of determining the type of processor in a PC Clone, covered in the trade magazines. But determining the speed for use as a fast timer you might try the following: All the PCs and clones from the very beginning have provided the time of day counter and the later models have the real time calendar/clock. So, any speed determination would start by reading the time or the "time", then running a large number of the intended timing loops, maybe in two, nested constructs to provide enough of resolution and finally, reading the "time" again. Then it is just simple calculus to determine the average time the loop took. And once you know this, you can pick your number of times to be run for any desired delay. Note that you have to cover in your initial selection the whole range of possible speeds to provide a reasonable delay on evev the fastest machines, because the timer resolution is limited and because there is (from your point of view) randomly happening RAM refresh that affects any time/speed determination by a few percent, if you are not careful even more. -- PJK Msg#:34571 *PROJECTS* 11/12/90 12:34:44 From: KENNETH SCHARF To: PELLERVO KASKINEN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 34513 (PC PROGRAMING PROBLEM) Thanks for the ideas. I will probably end up with something along those lines. I don't think I need *SUPER* precision for my application. The programming pulse requirements for eproms seems to vary between each chip maker. Maybe because they don't want to infringe on someones patents or something! Msg#:34281 *PROJECTS* 11/02/90 16:30:14 From: STEVE CIARCIA To: GEORGE RAE (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 34169 (68HC11 MICROPROCESSOR) The 68HC11 project in the next CC INK is vey complete, in my opinion. 68HC11 PLCC chips will probably also be available but so will assemble boards. HC11 manuals is another question. They are available but source and cost is not certain yet. --Steve Msg#:34307 *PROJECTS* 11/03/90 08:09:54 From: PELLERVO KASKINEN To: ROBERT WILLIAMSON Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 34033 (SCROLLING LED SIGN) I was planning to have the part number info by today, but of course failed to bring it from work. In any case it looks to me like TI has just the answer to your problem. They introduced an 8-line power driver chip that uses serial data in (and out) with a clock line and latch enable line. What all this means, you can easily daisy chain them. So, you could have just 240 devices in eight daisy chains. The data can be clocked in at very high speeds - something like 1 MHz - and the drivers have their internal current limit for each pin. One application example they give is for incandescent bulbs and they let the current limit drop the supply off and then refire on the next data round and the filament gets hotter and hotter until it does not cause the current limit trip but stays on. That may be extreme, but the idea is interesting. The chip has 15 legs and otherwise resembles a TO-202 plastic package with the metal tab for heat sinking. I got a sample with the data and an application note, so it is for real, although I forgot to write down the part number. -- PJK Msg#:34357 *PROJECTS* 11/05/90 10:02:00 From: BOB PADDOCK To: DALE NASSAR (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 34225 (DREAM RESEARCH WITH THE HAL4) I never seem to remember my dreams when I wake up (Maybe that is a good thing, they would probably be strange?).. Did doing this minute observing druing the night improve your observation skills druing the day? Maybe some thing in here will help: *Enclosed File: dreaminf.lzh Msg#:34408 *PROJECTS* 11/06/90 18:19:36 From: RICHARD BIDDLE To: ALL Subj: IMAGE PROCESSING Any idea of where to find the code from the image processing article from the next to the last issue of Cellar? I checked the library and couldn't find them. The routines were to perform image compression. Thanks in advance. Msg#:34416 *PROJECTS* 11/07/90 08:42:47 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: RICHARD BIDDLE (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 34408 (IMAGE PROCESSING) There is no code for that article. It was a theory article talking about algorithms. Unless there is an editor's note contained within an article stating that software is available on the BBS, there is none for that article. Msg#:34422 *PROJECTS* 11/07/90 13:21:27 From: RICHARD BIDDLE To: KEN DAVIDSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 34416 (IMAGE PROCESSING) OIC - thanks for the information. Msg#:34511 *PROJECTS* 11/10/90 04:37:06 From: KELLY DRESSER To: RICHARD BIDDLE (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 34408 (IMAGE PROCESSING) I'm attempting to track down info on the DCT compression techniques mentioned in Chris's article. See Dec'90 Radio Electronics, Don Lancaster's column for some references that will probably lead us to all sorts of technical papers. I've done some DCT programming but haven't been able to polish it all up to something really useable. The DCT stuff is relatively easy, but determining the thresholds and granularity for the DCT coefficient encoding (as well as the subsequent Huffman or whatever re-encoding) is where the real challenges lie. (as Chris noted). If you want an off-the-shelf program, Kodak is advertising a software compression package using (the say) the JPEG algorithms. About $150, I think. Can't remember right now where I saw the ad -- probably some desktop pub mag. I'm right now pursuing the JPEG stuff so that I can implement my own compression as part of another system (real estate image database & remote viewing). I Lancaster's refs lead me to anything useful I'll post here (although I think this thread should get moved over to the GENERAL area.) Msg#:34790 *PROJECTS* 11/19/90 16:11:29 From: RICHARD BIDDLE To: KELLY DRESSER (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 34511 (IMAGE PROCESSING) Kelly, thanks for the input. I've got the RE article you mentioned. C-Cube's board may be the answer, but I'd rather have some software to play with before I go whole hog. The PICS forum on Compuserve is a good place to exchange info (I'm a GIF developer), but there is not as much TARGA interest up there. We are doing scanning electron microscope work and use a Targa-16 to electonically transfer images, but those boggers get huge. If I come up any goodies, I'll post up here. Msg#:34475 *PROJECTS* 11/08/90 20:18:28 From: EDDIE REID To: ED NISLEY (Rcvd) Subj: TESTER PASCAL CODE I am tring to comp. the Tester.pas code on Turbo Ver 4.0 and it will stop on a line that has GETCOUNT in it but I can find no reference to this proc. or function in the code. I do not know anything about Pascal but I am learning. Help Thank you. Msg#:34559 *PROJECTS* 11/12/90 09:26:37 From: ED NISLEY To: EDDIE REID (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 34475 (TESTER PASCAL CODE) The best way to learn something is to dive right in! The source code for both the DDT-51 tester and the debugger itself is divided into several files which are included in the main programs. The included files are called *.P and the main files are *.PAS; that's just a convention I used to keep things straight. A good thing to do with any new program is to print out everything and highlight the routine names. That will give you a roadmap to find out how things are done. You'll find GETCOUNT somewhere in one of those included files. You might want to download the current versions (they're a year old, but more recent than the ones you've got there). There have been a few minor cleanups and fixes; nothing major, but it'll save you a little work. Welcome aboard! Msg#:34577 *PROJECTS* 11/12/90 14:48:32 From: EDDIE REID To: ED NISLEY (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 34559 (TESTER PASCAL CODE) I think I have the current files. I have printed the files and could not find a proc. that defines the getcount. It was used in the includes for the tests of tester program of the DDCan you give me a file name for where it is defin Thank You Msg#:34661 *PROJECTS* 11/15/90 14:09:16 From: ED NISLEY To: EDDIE REID (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 34577 (TESTER PASCAL CODE) The reason I think you don't have the current files is that the produce .EXE executables, not .COM. Further, I doubt that you'd miss GetCount, because it's defined at about line 38 of CHECKDDT.PAS. Msg#:34845 *PROJECTS* 11/21/90 06:35:38 From: EDDIE REID To: ED NISLEY (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 34661 (TESTER PASCAL CODE) I think you are right I don't have the right files, I down loaded from section 1 test31.arc debug31 and kernel. The Checkddt.pas was not in those arc files where is the new code. and are there any more tools that would be use full. Thank you Msg#:35009 *PROJECTS* 11/26/90 11:56:21 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: EDDIE REID (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 34845 (TESTER PASCAL CODE) OK. The final word in DDT-51 files. I compared the files that were on-line with what is being sent out with kits and found some differences. The DEBUG31.ZIP, KERNEL.ZIP, and TEST31.ZIP files now contain the absolute latest versions of all the DDT-51 files, including CHECKDDT.PAS which contains the GetCount procedure. I hope this finally does the trick. Msg#:35081 *PROJECTS* 11/27/90 20:20:36 From: EDDIE REID To: KEN DAVIDSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 35009 (TESTER PASCAL CODE) Thank you. I am sorry if I have been a pain. I just could not get it to work. Thank you again. Msg#:35148 *PROJECTS* 11/29/90 12:40:36 From: ED NISLEY To: EDDIE REID (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 34845 (TESTER PASCAL CODE) For what it's worth, this is at least the third time that we've gone through this dance. In all cases, Ken and I have both verified that the right files were in fact on the BBS... in all cases, eventually the older files showed up again. Absolutely beats me what's going on, but both of us wish it would stop. Augh! Msg#:35157 *PROJECTS* 11/29/90 13:55:52 From: ED NISLEY To: EDDIE REID (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 34845 (TESTER PASCAL CODE) And I apologize for assuming you were at fault. Sorry... next time I'll get it right. Msg#:35336 *PROJECTS* 12/03/90 19:06:50 From: EDDIE REID To: ED NISLEY (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 35148 (TESTER PASCAL CODE) You may find that a old backup is what is causing the problem. I wish you a lot of luck and thank you. Msg#:35490 *PROJECTS* 12/06/90 13:50:57 From: ED NISLEY To: EDDIE REID (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 35336 (TESTER PASCAL CODE) That's what I thought. Ken swears by the "evil forces" theory; he's in a position to know... Msg#:34519 *PROJECTS* 11/10/90 15:10:55 From: JOEL KOLSTAD To: EVERYONE Subj: IBM PC KEYBOARD PROTOCOLS I was going to make IBM PC keyboard translator similar to that presented in the February/March Circuit Cellar Ink (I think that's the right issue). However, I seem to have lost that issue. :-( So, could somebody please verify that Issue #13, Feb/March '89 is the correct issue for me? Also, I assume I'll have to buy the back issue and that I can just call up the numbers in the magazine's middle, right? Thanks for helping. ---Joel Kolstad Msg#:34558 *PROJECTS* 11/12/90 09:22:25 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: JOEL KOLSTAD (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 34519 (IBM PC KEYBOARD PROTOCOLS) Yes, it was in issue #13. You may order back issues for $4.00 each by calling (203) 875-2199. Msg#:34795 *PROJECTS* 11/19/90 22:33:50 From: TOM WARFEL To: ALL Subj: SHARP IR3C02 AVAILABILITY 3 questions regarding infrared laser diode drivers and detectors 1) Can the IR3C02 be used to directly drive a laser diode in an on/off fashion, and if so, what is the highest frequency they can do this at for a sustained period at room temperature? I am thinking about building an infrared RS-232 "extension" and am curious as to how fast I can drive a simple circuit. 2) Where can the IR3C02A be purchased in low quantity? I called Marshall Industries as listed in the April CCI, and the person at the other end told me 1) They only have the IR3C02A; she doesn't know what the difference is and she didn't have any data sheets available to send. 2) Marshall's minimum prepaid order is $25. 3) What photodiodes give a good response in the near-infrared, have a _fast_ response time (good enough for data rates from 40kHz to 20 Mhz), and cost <$50? Is there such a creature? If so, who carries it? I have seen a few ads in the flyers from Meredith, but the catalog didn't seem to have a lot of information on diode rise/fall times, peak spectral sensitivity, etc. Any other pointers to additional information would be appreciated. Thanks, -Tom Msg#:34866 *PROJECTS* 11/21/90 14:24:17 From: STEVE CIARCIA To: TOM WARFEL (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 34795 (SHARP IR3C02 AVAILABILITY) I think the chips I used were indeed IR3C02A but it may just designate a package difference. I modulated the diode at 40 KHz. Modulation in my circuit is not limited by the IR3C02 which sets an average level, but rather by the response of the transistor and the laser diode itself. Aren't we talking a MHz or two? Regarding photodiodes, my experience is that if a diode can emit the frequency then one exists to receive it. Back to the data sheets. Have you considered making a test setup and seeing what actually works or is it just us old hackers that don't believe data sheets and have to see for ourselves? --Steve Msg#:34872 *PROJECTS* 11/21/90 22:08:33 From: TOM WARFEL To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 34866 (SHARP IR3C02 AVAILABILITY) Steve, one of my problems is _finding_ the data sheets. That aside, I am having difficulty finding chips in small quantities. Marshall now tells me that minimum _order_ on that chip is 50 pieces, even prepaid, and that minimum total must be either $25 or $50, depending on the sales rep I talk to. No other Sharp distributors in the Pittsburgh area are willing to send data sheets nor samples (regardless of my offers to pay); they claim they can only sample when they can expect potential orders in the 100s to 1000s. What I will probably do is just make a driver/modulator out of a couple of very fast op-amps. Meredith, on the other hand, has been extremely easy to deal with; they were willing to look up the response curves for several of the diodes they offered, and offered some suggestions on mounting for the receiver. I will check the Pitt. engineering library as well next week, but I'm not optimistic about being able to order parts even if I can look them up. I do breadboard and tinker, but not before I work the math out first. At $10 (photodiode) to $25-$75 (laser diode) a crack, those parts aren't cheap. I want to make sure I have very good idea what to expect before I turn the power on. -Tom Msg#:34956 *PROJECTS* 11/24/90 20:28:55 From: THOMAS R WAMSER To: ALL Subj: SCSI PROJECT FOR THE MAC I would like to find out if someone could compile the SCSI to anything file that was in a past issue of the magazine. I built the project, but need the software. I have no means of compiling it. Any help would be great. Thanks, Thomas R Wamser Msg#:35048 *PROJECTS* 11/27/90 03:39:40 From: AARON GARTENSTEIN To: ALL Subj: TELEPHONE SCRAMBLER Dear Friends,* I am looking for a schematic for a good phone scrabmler, i have some data on a Harris CVDM chip (continuously variable delta modulator) that looks like a good ticket, but being a techno-klutz, need a schematic I can work from...if any one can help... let me know. Address is PO BOX 4692 Long Beach, CA 90807. Blessings upon thee... ---Aaron Msg#:35136 *PROJECTS* 11/29/90 08:16:28 From: BOB PADDOCK To: AARON GARTENSTEIN Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 35048 (TELEPHONE SCRAMBLER) Checkout Radio Electronics Jan 1988. "Build This Audio Scrambling System" by Kevin Lindell. If you want do design a system (read that as lots of units) give MX*COM a call and ask them about their MX-P1281 Variable Split Band Scrambler . 800-638-5577 Msg#:35152 *PROJECTS* 11/29/90 12:51:14 From: KENNETH SCHARF To: AARON GARTENSTEIN Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 35048 (TELEPHONE SCRAMBLER) Some years ago popular electronics (ziff davis days) ran an article on a phone scrambler. The principle used was similar to the balanced modulator / product detector system for amateur radio ssb. The idea was to inject an "audio carier" and generate a double sideband supressed carier signal. To descramble the signal the exact same audio carrier must be used. They gave an idea of using a pre agreed upon local radio station as the carrier signal! I'll try digging through my old PE's and see if I can locate the article, though I remember the circuit was simple... Two diode ring modulators and two transformers to connect to the phone line.... Msg#:35178 *PROJECTS* 11/29/90 20:59:41 From: DALE NASSAR To: BOB PADDOCK (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 35136 (TELEPHONE SCRAMBLER) There is an error in the schematic published for that article--pin 12 of IC4-d should connect to pin 13 of IC4-a and not to pin 2 of IC4-a. Also you can get better fidelity by using Analog Devices' low-cost multiplier IC to apply the theory described at the start of the article. --Dale Msg#:35247 *PROJECTS* 12/01/90 09:37:48 From: BOB PADDOCK To: DALE NASSAR (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 35178 (TELEPHONE SCRAMBLER) I saw the error. I was thinking of use that circuit for a direct conversion receiver for WWVB @ 60 KHz. The 4066 has the advantage of being redialy available. I'll take a look at the AD part. Msg#:35249 *PROJECTS* 12/01/90 09:54:06 From: CHRISTIENNE GUILLEM To: ALL Subj: PCB DESIGN FOR DATA ENCRYPTOR I AM SEARCHING FOR AN ORIGINAL PCB-DESIGN FOR THE HARDWARE DATA ENCRYPTOR PTED IN CIARCIA'S CIRCUIT CELLAR. Msg#:35526 *PROJECTS* 12/07/90 16:20:25 From: STEVE CIARCIA To: CHRISTIENNE GUILLEM (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 35249 (PCB DESIGN FOR DATA ENCRYPT) No Circuit Cellar PCB designs are ever posted. Sorry. --Steve Msg#:35295 *PROJECTS* 12/03/90 00:45:44 From: DAVID ALBERT To: ALL Subj: SSI263 VS. SPO256 I have done quite a bit of work with the SPO-256 speech synthesizer by GI, but I am not satisfied with the speech quality. I have heard good things about the SSI-263...does anyone know if it produced better speech quality than the SPO256. Any advice on high quality, general purpose (suitable for text-to-speech work) synthesis chips would be much appreciated! Msg#:35303 *PROJECTS* 12/03/90 08:34:47 From: BOB PADDOCK To: DAVID ALBERT (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 35295 (SSI263 VS. SPO256) Give RC Systems a call thier V8600/1 Speech Synthesizer will talk rings around either the 263 or the 256 (Is either one of those still being made?). RC-Systems, Inc 121 West Winesap Raod, Bothell, WA 98012 (206) 672-6909. Msg#:35319 *PROJECTS* 12/03/90 10:49:58 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: BOB PADDOCK (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 35303 (SSI263 VS. SPO256) What kind of technique do they use for their speech, Bob? Is this a finished unit or a chip/chip set? Msg#:35320 *PROJECTS* 12/03/90 10:55:20 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: DAVID ALBERT (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 35295 (SSI263 VS. SPO256) Phoneme speech all sounds crappy no matter what chip is generating it. I think the SSI263 sounds marginally better than the SPO256 (though I don't have much experience with the latter), but neither sounds natural in the least. If you want easy programmability, low data rate, and very little storage requirements, phoneme speech is the way to go. You lose intelligibility, though. Go to ADPCM and you get very natural-sounding speech, but you need lots of memory. Msg#:35380 *PROJECTS* 12/04/90 07:41:07 From: BOB PADDOCK To: KEN DAVIDSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 35319 (SSI263 VS. SPO256) It is a hybread module. 4.25 by 2.7". From the data book: "The V8600 is a complete phoneme based text-to-speech synthesizer featuring near human speech quality [I've heard it, it is.] An on board microcomputer automaticlly process plain ASCII text presented at the data input pins into a high quality male voice at the speaker output. Only a 5V power supply and speaker are needed for operation. [The audio amp with software controled volume is include on board.] The V8600 is designed to be piggy-backed onto a host PCB, such as a system's controller. An eight bit data bus and two read/write control signals enable the V86000 to be easily interfaced to virtually any microprocessor bus. Stand-alone applications are also possible by using the V8600's built in parallel or serial ports." To have a working unit you need the V8600 or the 8601 (It has 32K non-volital ram for the exception dictionary), a MAX 232 if you want to go seral, and reset IC (they show a MC3160, +5VDC regulater with reset output). You can hook up to a Centronics parallel port directly, with no buffers. The pricing I have is from May 1990: 1-49: $151. 50-99:131 +1000:$99. RC Systems has been around for a while, but most spend their time in the education/handicap market. Msg#:35547 *PROJECTS* 12/08/90 01:57:51 From: JAMES O'SULLIVAN To: KEN DAVIDSON (Rcvd) Subj: BASIC180 Hi Ken: I understand that there is a new version of BASIC180 available. I purchased a BCC180 a while back and would like to upgrade. In the front of my BASIC 180 manual, it says that updates are available by mailing in an EPROM or disk and $25. Is this still applicable? Msg#:35607 *PROJECTS* 12/10/90 08:45:40 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: JAMES O'SULLIVAN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 35547 (BASIC180) The upgrade is fixed at $50 for a new manual, disk, and EPROM. Go to the otes section to see a list of fixes and additions. Msg#:35716 *PROJECTS* 12/13/90 03:36:40 From: NICHOLAS MARINO To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: RTC-HC11 Several questions about your 68H11 board : How fast can I generate a timer interrupt in BASIC-11? How long does it take BASIC-11 to perform an A/D converstion? Can I use double-ended analog inputs on an A/D channel by tying one end to Vrl and the other to PE0? . I'm a subscriber. Please send a Micromint catalog. Msg#:35723 *PROJECTS* 12/13/90 08:55:48 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: NICHOLAS MARINO (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 35716 (RTC-HC11) A catalog can't be sent without an address. Even knowing that you're a subscriber, we'd at least need your ZIP code just to find you on the subsriber list. Msg#:35763 *PROJECTS* 12/14/90 10:37:51 From: BURT BROWN To: NICHOLAS MARINO (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 35716 (RTC-HC11) BASIC11 supports real-time interrupts through the use of a TIME variable and an ONTIME keyword. ONTIME takes the form ONTIME x,linenum where x is the value used to check against the current TIME. The TIME variable itself is driven by the HC11's OC1 timer output compare and is divided down in software for a one second resolution. This gives you a maximum range of about 18 hours. For faster timing while remaining in BASIC11 you have several choices. First, you can use the OKI clock chip to generate interrupts on IRQ or XIRQ and use the ONIRQ statement. The maximum rate using the OKI chip is 1/64 of a second (~16mS). You can reprogram OC1 for a faster timer rate and use ONTIME; this will reduce your maximum timer range accordingly. Program one of the other output compares which can toggle a line on PORTA; then run this line to either the pulse accumulator(PA7) and use ONPACC or run the line to one of the interrupt pins and use ONIRQ. I haven't measured the maximum rate on A/D conersion through BASIC11 but I would estimate that it is on the order of 100uS since BASIC reads each channel four times and then returns the average. Your differential input setup would probably be OK but whatever level you have on Vrl would also become the reference for the other seven channels. The HC11 data book lists a minimum Vrl at VSS-0.1 with a minimum Vrh-Vrl of 3.0 volts. Max Vrh is Vdd+0.1. I think if you stay within these specs you can pretty much do whatever you want. We've been ramping up for production so I haven't really had much time to just sit down and play with the board so I don't have in-depth specs on alot of the peripheral subsystems, especially through BASIC11. Hope this helps, Burt. Msg#:35776 *PROJECTS* 12/14/90 19:30:43 From: NICHOLAS MARINO To: KEN DAVIDSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 35723 (RTC-HC11) Nicholas Marino 1422 Magee Avenue Philadelphia PA 19111 (215) 289-9227 Msg#:35839 *PROJECTS* 12/17/90 00:25:00 From: KEN MARTIN To: ALL Subj: DDT51 Hi folks: I'm a bit embarassed to submit this message as I'm sure its been asked a hundred times before but is there a more detailed description anywhere on how to convert a IBM parallel card to bidirectional? I've bought two now and neither were enough like the article discussing the modification to be of any use. One of them uses the 82C11 (??) which I've since read here is incompatible and the other uses many of the chips desribed i.e. 74HS174, 74HS374, 74HS244 but the data lines from the computer bus do not go all of the chips, they all run into a 74HS245 and that's it. Anyway, I've probably got it all mixed up but I don't want to buy any more useless parallel cards if I can help it. Would someone please let me in on what to look for as I am quite interested in this project but I am a mechanical engineer and as such a little shy on the electronics expertise! Thanks in advance, Ken Martin Msg#:35845 *PROJECTS* 12/17/90 02:45:51 From: DALE NASSAR To: KEN MARTIN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 35839 (DDT51) Ken, The operation involves the '374, '174, and possibly the '245. You will have to cut the '374 enable line (pin 1) from ground (here, be sure this is the only pin you disconnect from ground) and connect it to the unused output of the '174. You may have to remove the '174 chip to see clearly which output pin is unconnected--usually it is pin 7 but don't count on it. The '174 output pins are 2,5,7,10,12,and 15 ( the corresponding '174 input pins are 3,4,6,11,13,and 14). After you make this connection ('374 pin 1 to unused '174 output), be sure the corresponding '174 input is connected to BDATA 5 which is pin 13 of the '245 (there will be other connections here but leave them alone). A couple of notes: 1) If by any chance the unused '174 input pin is tied high or low, you should disconnect it. 2) I am assuming that pin 13 of the '245 is buffering D5 at the PC slot--but since the '245 gates can be used in any order, you may want to be sure you are connecting D5 to the '174 input. Now you can disable the data output port by writing data bit D5 high via the LPTx + 2 port (it's best to use operations which change only this single bit). It is then safe to put data into the data port and read it at LPTx + 0. --Dale Msg#:35846 *PROJECTS* 12/17/90 03:15:09 From: DALE NASSAR To: KEN MARTIN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 35839 (DDT51) Did you say the card uses "HS" logic? --Dale Msg#:35856 *PROJECTS* 12/17/90 09:28:30 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: KEN MARTIN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 35839 (DDT51) You can be guaranteed of having a board that works by buying one already modified from CCI (203/875-2751). Msg#:35866 *PROJECTS* 12/17/90 23:19:20 From: KEN MARTIN To: DALE NASSAR (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 35845 (DDT51) Dave: I've just captured your message to disk; I'll have to go over it while looking at the board I have. Thanks a lot for the quick reply. regards, Ken Martin Msg#:35867 *PROJECTS* 12/17/90 23:23:30 From: KEN MARTIN To: DALE NASSAR (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 35846 (DDT51) Dave: No.. Sorry.. that should have been "LS". Ken Msg#:35868 *PROJECTS* 12/17/90 23:24:34 From: KEN MARTIN To: KEN DAVIDSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 35856 (DDT51) Ken: I would hate to have to admit defeat but just out of curiousity..... how much does it cost? regards Ken Martin Msg#:35878 *PROJECTS* 12/18/90 08:33:32 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: KEN MARTIN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 35868 (DDT51) The bidirectional parallel port board costs $59. Msg#:35924 *PROJECTS* 12/19/90 15:20:09 From: KENNETH SCHARF To: KEN MARTIN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 35839 (DDT51) At a local hamfest I found someone selling IBM printer interface cards. These were probably the original PC cards that they were selling in '81 when the pc first came out. Anyway for $10 it was a steal. I dug out the early tech. manual and found that the schematic matched the board. These early cards had pads for jumpers, and traces laid out between the pads to cut to convert the board to bidirectional uses. IBM designed the card to work that way, and then disabled it!!! It was a piece of cake to re-enable the feature. I wouldn't be surprised to find that current IBM printer cards work the same way. That big blue giant is a strange dude! Msg#:35912 *PROJECTS* 12/19/90 08:39:16 From: KENNETH TINDLE To: ALL USERS Subj: BCC SPECS Okay, guys, here comes a stupid question. I need specs on the BCC bus- I figure it's around here in a file, just ready to be snapped up. Trouble is, what area and filename? Sorry about this, but people here watch long distance charges like a hawk- don't spend any time on this, just leave a quick note, I'll get the file when I can go right straight to it. Thanks! Msg#:35915 *PROJECTS* 12/19/90 08:45:17 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: KENNETH TINDLE (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 35912 (BCC SPECS) OK. I have a stupid answer for you: There are no formal BCC bus specs. You can get the pin definition by ordering the manual for any of the BCC boards, but even that depends to some degree on which processor board you look at. Since there are currently three processors for the BCC bus (Z8, 8052, and HD64180), and each has its own timing characteristics, there really isn't any way to put together a hard and fast spec for the bus. Msg#:36050 *PROJECTS* 12/22/90 16:44:01 From: KENNETH TINDLE To: KEN DAVIDSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 35915 (BCC SPECS) OK- I knew Steve had gone to a lot of extra trouble to maintain the multiplex structure off the 64180, so I thought things were locked down. I suppose that's why about 9 pins (from what I *have* seen) are undefined and why interrupts are different. I also suppose that's why I didn't find much by browsing around quickly. As Max would say, I hope I wasn't out of line with that 'stupid question' crack! Thanks. I might as well say that my interest is to hang a large number of discrete LED's off the BCC bus, 8052 flavor. Cheers. Msg#:35986 *PROJECTS* 12/20/90 19:36:42 From: TODD PIERCE To: ALL Subj: HOME ROBOTS WANTED I really am interested in buying used hero 2000 (ideally). If anybody has anything like that or even a hero one or parts hive me a call. I'll pay top dollar. Todd (voice) (608) 836-6552 Msg#:36083 *PROJECTS* 12/24/90 12:43:36 From: JOHN L. LOQCKE To: ALL Subj: SER EPROM PROGRAMMER & AMD 27512 Hi. I've recently discovered that my Serial EPROM Programmer will not program AMD 27512 EPROMs. If running in stand-alone mode, things seem to progress normally, but the compare fails right away. If running in remote, I get the message "programming", followed almost immediately by "programming complete", then an error message showing that the first byte should be "xx" and is "FF". Has anyone else experienced this problem? I should note that my SEP has the maximum 32K buffer installed, and programs 27256 EPROMs with no problem. I don't have an AMD data book for reference. Is the programming algorithm different for this part? I tried programming one in "normal" mode, and the EPROM got *extremely* hot (I pulled the plug before the programming cycle could finish). In an (apparently) unrelated vein, I've also discovered that I cannot do a download from my AT serial port if the SEP is running at over 1200 baud. I can communicate with the Programmer fine, and even upload data, but downloads just seem to get the first couple of bytes into the buffer. Is there some handshaking I'm failing to set up properly? Thanks... John Locke Msg#:36127 *PROJECTS* 12/26/90 09:50:21 From: JEFF BACHIOCHI To: JOHN L. LOQCKE Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 36083 (SER EPROM PROGRAMMER & AMD 2751) John, If you have a version number prior to V1.6, try programming in the standard mode. The fast mode has a bug for 27512s. There is no hardware handshaking! Take care not to over-run the input buffer. After each the line is processed. This requires X-amount of time. Have your software pause after sending each line to ensure the SEP has finished processing the previous line. jeff Msg#:36199 *PROJECTS* 12/29/90 00:14:40 From: JOHN WREN To: KNOWLEDGABLE BCC52 USERS Subj: BCC52 -PSEN/-RD CONFIG I'm trying to bring up Dr. Tings eForth up on an 8031 that has -PSEN going to the onboard RAM, but not -RD. Dr. Tings eForth was written on a BCC52 board. Does the BCC52 have -PSEN and/or -RD going to the RAM and ROM? Or -RD only to the RAM, and -PSEN only to the ROM? Appreciate any help here... (I'd refer to my back issues, but I was a nice guy and lent them to an out-of-state friend...) - John Wren Msg#:36321 *PROJECTS* 01/02/91 10:04:03 From: JEFF BACHIOCHI To: JOHN WREN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 36199 (BCC52 -PSEN/-RD CONFIG) John, *PSEN going to RAM without *RD and *WR means ya can't get anything into it! Execution is a bust. jeff Msg#:36344 *PROJECTS* 01/02/91 22:37:45 From: JOHN WREN To: JEFF BACHIOCHI (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 36321 (BCC52 -PSEN/-RD CONFIG) True, but -PSEN logically OR'ed with -RD means you can execute out of RAM. Does the BCC52 have -PSEN*-RD going to ROM and/or RAM? Or can you not execute downloaded code out of the RAM. Although combining the 2 signals reduces your effective address space (128K to 64K ((maybe less), it does give you more flexibility. One annoying thing about the 8031 (Actually, there are a number, the biggest being no DEC DPTR instruction, and the third being no SUB (Ignores carry) instruction), is that MOVC requires A to be loaded (usually cleared), unless you're big into tables. - John Wren Msg#:36368 *PROJECTS* 01/03/91 08:46:58 From: JEFF BACHIOCHI To: JOHN WREN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 36344 (BCC52 -PSEN/-RD CONFIG) John, Yes on all. BCC52 gives this flexability. We even have an ROM assembler (ROM A&B) with which you can write source assemble it into RAM and execute a CALL from the Command Mode to check the routine. Then blast it into an EPROM all without leaving the system! jeff Msg#:36226 *PROJECTS* 12/30/90 01:02:04 From: KEN MARTIN To: DALE NASSAR (Rcvd) Subj: PARALLEL PORT MODIFICATION Dave: I haven't used the modified port for anything useful yet but with your help I'm at least able to run the diagnostic code that tells you wheter the port is bidirectional or not. Thanks a lot! Ken Martin Msg#:36276 *PROJECTS* 12/31/90 14:14:08 From: BOB ARMSTRONG To: KEN MARTIN Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 36226 (PARALLEL PORT MODIFICATION) I just started playing around with a bidirectional printer port on my '386 and am having a lot of fun with it. First I built a pinewood derby (Cub Scout) race timer, now I'm building a MAX134 based PC voltmeter which I may turn into a NI-CAD peak-detector type charger. Msg#:36489 *PROJECTS* 01/06/91 10:16:15 From: CLYDE E. MCMURDY To: KEN MARTIN Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 36226 (PARALLEL PORT MODIFICATION) Sorry, but I couldn't help but over-read.... Is there some diagnostic available to check the Read/Write cababilities of a parallel port? I'm installing a parallel Lan and would be interested in such a tool. Thanks. Clyde M. Msg#:36534 *PROJECTS* 01/07/91 14:48:22 From: ED NISLEY To: CLYDE E. MCMURDY (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 36489 (PARALLEL PORT MODIFICATION) If you're up to a little coding, you can do a quick test in a few lines. With the port in normal "output only" mode, you read back what you just wrote to the data port. In "input" mode, you read back FF, because the data lines will float high... presuming nothing is driving them from the outside, which ought to be true when you're doing the testing. So, to make the test, you write 55 (for example) and verify that you can read it back, switch to "input" mode, then verify that you _don't_ get 55 back. Msg#:36537 *PROJECTS* 01/07/91 17:12:38 From: BOB ARMSTRONG To: CLYDE E. MCMURDY (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 36489 (PARALLEL PORT MODIFICATION) The diagnostic routines would not test for two way capability. It's easy to do such a test using BASIC or C. If using C, just use the inportb(portval) function (where portval = 3BC or another hex value for other than LPT1) to read the values from the port. Put +5v on pins 2-9 and use 22-25 as the ground reference. If you see a "1"when you AND the bits, the port is two way. Using BASIC, you can just PEEK at the proper address. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Msg#:36298 *PROJECTS* 01/01/91 15:08:19 From: JOHN WOOD To: ALL Subj: DDT-51 W/RAM SUPPORT - TESTERS WANTED I am looking for a few people to test some changes that I have made to the DDT-51 system before I upload it for general use. If you are interested in testing this new version, please let me know. I will mail the modified software to a few people who I hope will give me detailed feedback, both on the correctness of the changes, and on the way that I've designed them. I'll check back in a few days for mail or give me a call. John Wood (603)888-0999 This briefly describes some of the changes made to the DDT-51 system: 1)Maintain more context on the screen to help see what changes when an instruction is executed. Instead of clearing the screen on every command (eg STEP), I condensed the output so you can observe registers and the PC thru several STEP commands. 2)Added the ability to read (dump) external RAM without having to reset the CPU. This makes it easy to look at such things as I/O buffers. The output can be aborted by pressing any key before the specified range has been dumped. 3)Added the ability to modify external RAM without having to reset the CPU. This makes it easy to manipulate buffers and other data items. This is not complete (changing bytes in hex and the fill function work, but character strings do not). 4)Added a symbol table facility. You can define symbols (eg LOOP) and set breakpoints using the symbol. You can read and modify RAM using the symbols as well. Note that symbols can be ranges (i.e. start:end) so you can just dump BUFFER and see the entire buffer. The closest symbol to the PC is displayed when stepping (e.g. LOOP+0023. You can load a file of symbols by specifying @file (the extension defaults to .DDT). I use another program (FIXSYM) to convert the symbol table from the AVOCET-C linker and thus get all of the external symbols defined automatically. Symbol tables are loaded automatically when a file is downloaded from the command line, but must be loaded manually when the download is done via the function keys. A show symbol command (F3) is also implemented that will dump the entire symbol table, a specific symbol, or any symbols which match a wildcard value (letters followed by an asterisk). Values for symbols can be either hex values, other symbols, or symbol+symbol, symbol+constant, symbol-symbol, or symbol-constant. Either half of a range can be an expression. Sample symbol definitions (spaces are optional): LOOP = 450 BUFFER = 4000:4100 HEADER = BUFFER:BUFFER+20 5)Added a step-over command. This looks at the instruction that is about to be executed and does a normal step if the instruction is not a CALL instruction. If it is a CALL, a breakpoint is inserted after the instruction and execution proceeds thru the entire subroutine before the breakpoint is executed. 6)Completely restructured the function key definitions, both to add more functions and to map the enhanced keyboard which has the function keys across the top. The commonly used commands are done with F1-F10 and the less common and/or more dangerous commands (like RESET) are done with ALT/F1-F10. Not all keys are currently in use. Press F1 to see the assignments. 7)Added the ability to specify hex file names on the command line when invoking DEBUG31. If one (or more) file names are specified, the KERNEL.HEX file is downloaded first, then each specified file in turn. Symbol table files are processed as well. 8)Fixed a general problem where code looked like "word(foo) SHL 8" by changing them to "swap(word(foo))". The original code caused problems if the high order bit of the low byte was set (the program blew up with a run-time error). This was found in several places and was really aggrevated by my changes. Msg#:36321 *PROJECTS* 01/02/91 10:04:03 From: JEFF BACHIOCHI To: JOHN WREN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 36199 (BCC52 -PSEN/-RD CONFIG) John, *PSEN going to RAM without *RD and *WR means ya can't get anything into it! Execution is a bust. jeff Msg#:36344 *PROJECTS* 01/02/91 22:37:45 From: JOHN WREN To: JEFF BACHIOCHI (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 36321 (BCC52 -PSEN/-RD CONFIG) True, but -PSEN logically OR'ed with -RD means you can execute out of RAM. Does the BCC52 have -PSEN*-RD going to ROM and/or RAM? Or can you not execute downloaded code out of the RAM. Although combining the 2 signals reduces your effective address space (128K to 64K ((maybe less), it does give you more flexibility. One annoying thing about the 8031 (Actually, there are a number, the biggest being no DEC DPTR instruction, and the third being no SUB (Ignores carry) instruction), is that MOVC requires A to be loaded (usually cleared), unless you're big into tables. - John Wren Msg#:36368 *PROJECTS* 01/03/91 08:46:58 From: JEFF BACHIOCHI To: JOHN WREN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 36344 (BCC52 -PSEN/-RD CONFIG) John, Yes on all. BCC52 gives this flexability. We even have an ROM assembler (ROM A&B) with which you can write source assemble it into RAM and execute a CALL from the Command Mode to check the routine. Then blast it into an EPROM all without leaving the system! jeff Msg#:36380 *PROJECTS* 01/03/91 10:31:44 From: JOHN S. FETZIK To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: SERIAL EPROM PROGRAMMER Steve I could use an EPROM programmer at home and was think about building the serial one you did a few years ago in BYTE. I was wondering if it is possible to get just the circuit board. I have just about everything else in a box somewhere except for the 8052BASIC chip, the choke, the pushbuttons and a couple of the 1% resistors. Thanks. John S. Fetzik v Msg#:36401 *PROJECTS* 01/04/91 07:25:16 From: BOB PADDOCK To: JOHN S. FETZIK (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 36380 (SERIAL EPROM PROGRAMMER) I've got one of "The Circuit Cellar Serial EPROM Programmer"s partial kits here that I've never got around to building, it has the User Manual, 8052, 11.052 XTAL, 1% resistors, and V1.0 EPROM (One of us should get the V1.6 EPROM [Might be on here some place?]). I'm tired of look at it, its yours for $35. Msg#:36409 *PROJECTS* 01/04/91 10:00:40 From: JOHN S. FETZIK To: BOB PADDOCK (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 36401 (SERIAL EPROM PROGRAMMER) Bob, thanks for the reply. I would be interested in the partial kit. Leave me your address and I'll send you a check. I already checked and the V1.6 code is over in file area 2. Thanks Again. John S. Fetzik Msg#:36412 *PROJECTS* 01/04/91 10:19:34 From: STEVE CIARCIA To: JOHN S. FETZIK (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 36380 (SERIAL EPROM PROGRAMMER) $35 is a good buy. I believe that is the currently available $89 experimenter's kit he's selling. --Steve Msg#:36417 *PROJECTS* 01/04/91 11:58:06 From: BOB PADDOCK To: JOHN S. FETZIK (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 36409 (SERIAL EPROM PROGRAMMER) Bob Paddock %Matric Limited Box 167A RD#1 Summit Dr. Franklin, PA 16323 Msg#:36518 *PROJECTS* 01/07/91 10:26:31 From: JOHN S. FETZIK To: BOB PADDOCK (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 36417 (SERIAL EPROM PROGRAMMER) Thanks Bob. I'll send the check out today. John S. Fetzik Msg#:36434 *PROJECTS* 01/04/91 21:17:09 From: TOM MOORE To: ED NISLEY (Rcvd) Subj: SOURCE FOR 10-BIT ADC Ed, could you please tell me where I might get one of those drop-in replacements for the ADC0808 that gives 10 bits of resolution? I'm looking for just one at the moment. Btw, I appreciate your articles in Ink as they've helped me an enormous amount! Tom. Msg#:36533 *PROJECTS* 01/07/91 14:28:56 From: ED NISLEY To: TOM MOORE (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 36434 (SOURCE FOR 10-BIT ADC) The closest source to here is Micromint, where they're about 30 bucks plus your mode of shipping. The interface is painfully simple: you tell it to convert, then read two bytes when it's done (instead of one byte for the 8-bit version). First byte out of the chute has the high-order 8 bits, the next has the low-order two bits. That means you get the right answer if you don't change your code, but if you want to combine the chunks in one 16-bit word you have to do 6 bits worth of shifting. Not a big deal. Thanks for the good words... glad to hear somebody's reading the column and getting useful stuff out of it! Msg#:36585 *PROJECTS* 01/08/91 12:15:11 From: STEVE CIARCIA To: TOM MOORE (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 36434 (SOURCE FOR 10-BIT ADC) When you call Micromint tell them PLCC or DIP 0810 chip. They have both. --Steve Msg#:36614 *PROJECTS* 01/09/91 05:15:30 From: TOM MOORE To: ED NISLEY (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 36533 (SOURCE FOR 10-BIT ADC) Thirty dollars is quite a lot for a 10-bit adc (isn't it?) Good to know Micromint has 'em, though. Thanks! Msg#:36623 *PROJECTS* 01/09/91 08:45:13 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: TOM MOORE (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 36614 (SOURCE FOR 10-BIT ADC) Micromint isn't in the onesy/twosy parts business and has no pretenses about trying to be competetive with the likes of Digi-Key or Jameco. We make such hard-to-find parts available as a convenience for people who can't find them elsewhere. Since the company doesn't specialize in individual parts, such sales come with a good deal of overhead, hence the higher prices. Msg#:36698 *PROJECTS* 01/10/91 13:43:26 From: ED NISLEY To: TOM MOORE (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 36614 (SOURCE FOR 10-BIT ADC) Hey, think of it as three bucks a bit! Now isn't that a little more reasonable? Msg#:36718 *PROJECTS* 01/11/91 04:25:49 From: TOM MOORE To: KEN DAVIDSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 36623 (SOURCE FOR 10-BIT ADC) True, a $30 A/D converter is better than no converter at all! I AM glad to know micromint does carry some of the harder-to-find parts. Msg#:36489 *PROJECTS* 01/06/91 10:16:15 From: CLYDE E. MCMURDY To: KEN MARTIN Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 36226 (PARALLEL PORT MODIFICATION) Sorry, but I couldn't help but over-read.... Is there some diagnostic available to check the Read/Write cababilities of a parallel port? I'm installing a parallel Lan and would be interested in such a tool. Thanks. Clyde M. Msg#:36534 *PROJECTS* 01/07/91 14:48:22 From: ED NISLEY To: CLYDE E. MCMURDY (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 36489 (PARALLEL PORT MODIFICATION) If you're up to a little coding, you can do a quick test in a few lines. With the port in normal "output only" mode, you read back what you just wrote to the data port. In "input" mode, you read back FF, because the data lines will float high... presuming nothing is driving them from the outside, which ought to be true when you're doing the testing. So, to make the test, you write 55 (for example) and verify that you can read it back, switch to "input" mode, then verify that you _don't_ get 55 back. Msg#:36537 *PROJECTS* 01/07/91 17:12:38 From: BOB ARMSTRONG To: CLYDE E. MCMURDY (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 36489 (PARALLEL PORT MODIFICATION) The diagnostic routines would not test for two way capability. It's easy to do such a test using BASIC or C. If using C, just use the inportb(portval) function (where portval = 3BC or another hex value for other than LPT1) to read the values from the port. Put +5v on pins 2-9 and use 22-25 as the ground reference. If you see a "1"when you AND the bits, the port is two way. Using BASIC, you can just PEEK at the proper address. Msg#:36760 *PROJECTS* 01/12/91 01:02:20 From: DAVID RIEWE To: RICK BERUBE Subj: BCC52 FOR 8031 DEVELOPMENT Why not leave JP9 open and use the BCC-52 to test the 8031 code. Once the code works, re-assemble for 0000h, upload to battery backed static ram using something like the BASIKIT Ascii upload. Then place the ram at location 0000h, jumper JP9 and power-up. The difference between the code you test with the BCC-52/BASIKIT configuration would have to be modified for the final stand-alone 8031 to set up any interrupt vectors and select/program the baud-rate generator. The above paragraph should be addressed as a question. As in...this is how I would like to attempt it. I currently have the BCC-52 with BASIKIT and have IC1,IC3,IC8,& IC12 as RAM selected by ANYRD. I left the ROM utilities A&B off cause having ROM at 2000h conflicts with some of the features of BASIKIT (one I can think of off-hand is if you want to load a tokenized basic program at 200h). I have an 8k ram in U17 with a 3.5 volt lithium battery and 2 diodes (for vcc switching) mounted on top. I just got a copy of the INTELL 8-bit imbedded controller manual yesterday so now it is time to study up. My previous experience was with an 8085 in school. These 8051 family processors are quite impressive compared to the 8085. Well I have rattled enough :-) Gotta get back to reading messages while the week-end rates are here. Take Care, David Msg#:36802 *PROJECTS* 01/13/91 05:49:07 From: HUGH DUFF To: ED NISLEY (Rcvd) Subj: DDT-51 Hi Ed. I've been pondering building the DDT-51. I saw the ad for the kit. Just wondering if it is available without the parts ? ie.. pc board, manual, programs and source code only. (I have a large 'junk box' ) And, do you still have reprints of the original DDT-51 article for $3.00 ? (ref. Firmware Furnace Nov/Dec 88) Hugh Duff Msg#:36851 *PROJECTS* 01/14/91 11:25:49 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: HUGH DUFF (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 36802 (DDT-51) I believe the DDT-51 is only available as a $99 full kit. No experimenter kit was ever made. Blank PC boards are never available alone for any project. You should be able to get an article reprint. Just be careful how you ask for it, though. The DDT-51 was a Ciarcia's Circuit Cellar project appearing in the August and September 1988 issues of BYTE. The only information ever to appear in INK was some follow-up stuff and perhaps some behind the scenes descriptions in Firmware Furnace. Call (203) 875-2199 to find out about it. Msg#:37020 *PROJECTS* 01/19/91 05:20:13 From: HUGH DUFF To: KEN DAVIDSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 36851 (DDT-51) Hi Ken...Thanks for the reply. Is there any particular reason for not selling blank pc boards for projects. This is a hobby for many, the difference between the cost of a 'kit' and blank boards for some projects could make or break ones decision to take on a project. (especially folks with large 'junkboxes') Your $100 U.S. is worth about $120 Can. to me, not to mention shipping and broker fees at the border. Enough of crying the blues, I do think blank pc boards should be an option in projects though ! Hugh Msg#:37111 *PROJECTS* 01/21/91 13:25:25 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: HUGH DUFF (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 37020 (DDT-51) We've explained this more times than I'd like to count over the past few years. When a project appears in an article, the development costs of that project far outweigh anything that the magazine might pay for such an article. In some cases, the author tries to recover at least some of those development costs by selling full or partial kits. The price of the kit can be made higher than the sum cost of the components, thereby making up some of the development outlay. The real cost of a blank PC board is going to be much higher than the material cost to make the actual board, and people would start screaming when we tried to sell a blank PC board for $75 or $100. Then there is support. You're going to have fewer support calls when you provide all the parts since you know that they are the right parts and they come from reputable sources. You state that this is a hobby for many, which I think is great. We provide complete schematics, descriptions, and software for the cost of the magazine and perhaps a modem telephone call with which any hobbyist can build the entire project with no additional monetary outlay. Some magazines give you 95% of the project, only to zing you by charging for the additional 5% to get the thing running. Nobody is forced to buy a kit to make any project; they are available strictly as a convenience. Basically, it comes down to the fact that we could sell just blank PC boards, but I don't think you'd like the price we'd have to charge for them. Msg#:36858 *PROJECTS* 01/14/91 12:46:58 From: BRIAN KENNER To: CURT FRANKLIN (Rcvd) Subj: TI74 ARTICLE manuscript to follow *Enclosed File: ti74.asc Msg#:36872 *PROJECTS* 01/14/91 21:01:26 From: RICH OSMAN To: ED NISELY Subj: PARALLEL PORTS I suspect that you've answered this one before, but what's wrong with simply writing x'ff' to the PC's data port and back-driving data into them? It doesn't seem to exceed any spec for the 'LS374 or 'LS244. Oz Msg#:36914 *PROJECTS* 01/15/91 17:20:42 From: ED NISLEY To: RICH OSMAN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 36872 (PARALLEL PORTS) Um, which specs are you using? Both the 374 and 244 have totem-pole outputs with fairly husky high-state current ratings, so your "back driving" circuit would have to pull down the upper transistors. This is a Bad Thing because the actual logic state depends on the result of crowbarring the power supply and ground between the two drivers; the result will depend on which end of the cable you're looking at... Just for the exercise, wire up a pair of 244s, force opposing zeros and ones, then measure the actual current and voltage between the two. Then put your thumb on the chips and report back! Msg#:36966 *PROJECTS* 01/17/91 12:20:54 From: KENNETH SCHARF To: RICH OSMAN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 36872 (PARALLEL PORTS) I know that most printer ports are not bi-directional without being modified, yet several of the lap-link programs can transfer files through a pc's printer port. So there must be a way of faking it. We use a printer to printer cable with fast-lynx between intel 301z's and compaq laptops without any problems. The program transfers data bi-directionally. So what gives? Msg#:36971 *PROJECTS* 01/17/91 15:40:29 From: RICH OSMAN To: ED NISLEY (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 36914 (PARALLEL PORTS) Ed, The PC parallel port _driver_ pins have a 27 ohm resistor in series with them. Connecting two parallel ports bit for bit (on the data lines) yields a voltage divider and a 54 ohm series resistor. The 'LS244 used as an input buffer monitors the divider point. Given this situation, the 54 ohm resistor will limit current to/from the drivers. While the output has a totem pole pull-up resistor, the effective source impedance (based on I_sc) is about 22 ohms. The overall resistance would thus be about 76 ohms. For a VCC of 5.5 volts, we get a cross drive current of 73 mils. This, of course, is a bit of an oversimplification. There are two V_ce_SATs that I don't consider in this. If we dump .7 volts for these we're down to 60ma. This is a back-of-the-envelope number. There's two 2200 pf pullup caps on each data line that need to be charged/discharged, too come to think of it. These numbers exceed the "Absolute Maximum Ratings" provided by the manufacturers. If you look at the numbers and conditions for V_ol and V_oh, the news looks better. It appears that the parts don't source much current above 2.5 V. The V_ol for I_oh of -3ma is at least 2.4 V. For I_oh of -15 mA the worst case V_oh of 2.0 V. The point of this rather rambling dissertation is that it looks like it'll work fine. I'm gonna take you up on your suggestion and try it on the bench. This information, coupled with the ob- servation Kenneth Scharf made about "lap-link" type programs. The same is true of things like the Xircom ethernet interface, etc. I have no doubt that I'll need to do things like be sure that the pull-down is only done for a brief period, etc. But a little careful software seems to beat a cut-and-jump. What I really want to know, is why did IBM do it wrong? Looking at the design, it was clearly intended to be bidirectional, why did they lobotomize it? Oz (Rich Osman, WB0HUQ) INTERNET: Oz@SwRI.edu (512) 522-5050 (w); (512) 699-1302 (h, merciless machine) (512) 522-2572 (just the fax) Msg#:36972 *PROJECTS* 01/17/91 15:43:11 From: RICH OSMAN To: KENNETH SCHARF (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 36966 (PARALLEL PORTS) See msg 36971, my reply to Ed... Thanks for your comments. The lap-link stuff AND the Xircom pocket ethernet brick are waht caused me to wonder... Oz Msg#:36992 *PROJECTS* 01/18/91 03:48:15 From: DALE NASSAR To: KENNETH SCHARF (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 36966 (PARALLEL PORTS) Look at msg# 30757 --Dale Msg#:36995 *PROJECTS* 01/18/91 07:51:36 From: DALE NASSAR To: ED NISLEY (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 36914 (PARALLEL PORTS) Those parallel port cards that use the custom chips seem to be getting more common--I've found one configuration where this is a problem--for example a certain dongle (hardlock) that uses one of the control port bits as an input assumes that on the printer card these are open collector outputs (as they are in the old cards). I plugged it into one of those new cards and had to direct-drive outputs fighting it out (about 40 ma). So I guess it's not 100% safe anymore to use the control port as bi-directional. I designed an EPROM emulator and had planned to do bi- directional byte transfers (verify) through the parallel port; but to be compatible, I redesigned it to read back the data four bits at a time through the status ports--the speed was still impressive. Anybody know where I can get a schematic for the IBM printer card? --Dale Msg#:37001 *PROJECTS* 01/18/91 09:12:26 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: KENNETH SCHARF (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 36966 (PARALLEL PORTS) Dale is right. Look at message #30757 for a very good description of how those file transfer programs work without modifying the port and without resorting to hacker kludges like strong-arming an output-only port with external input. Msg#:37078 *PROJECTS* 01/20/91 18:32:07 From: ED NISLEY To: RICH OSMAN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 36971 (PARALLEL PORTS) Not so fast... Those resistors are in series with the upper transistor's collector, so you get only one of 'em when you have a "one" output fighting a "zero" output. Depending on the logic family, the resistor ranges from 25 to 100 ohms, so the results depend on which flavors of latches you've got connected together. In any event, the short-circuit current is something like 100-200 mA. Suppose all eight outputs are slugging it out with the other driver. The net current is 800-1600 mA according to the data book. Now, if your ground connection between the two latches (in the cable) has one ohm of resistance, you've got maybe a volt of drop... which blows your logic threshold; the answer depends on which end of the cable you're looking at. I agree that IBM seems to have changed its mind, but I bet the reason was that they couldn't control what sort of devices would be connected to the port... and elected to have a safe and sure standard (more or less) Centronics port (albeit with a non-standard connector!). That way, you don't get into service problems with customers who tried to cross-drive the outputs... right? Do tell us what the results are; I suspect it'll work OK. However, I don't want to do that sort of thing to _my_ system! Msg#:37133 *PROJECTS* 01/21/91 21:32:05 From: RICH OSMAN To: ED NISLEY (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 37078 (PARALLEL PORTS) I'll keep you posted. The resistors that I spoke of are in an isolated resistor DIP pack in series with the driver output. They are only 27 ohms, but I **think** I can make it work. I amd sure that you are correct, that is that steady state current will be out of spec. I think that I can, with a little judicious programming, keep the dissipation well in spec and the current on the edge of spec. Oz Msg#:37193 *PROJECTS* 01/23/91 09:25:52 From: ED NISLEY To: RICH OSMAN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 37133 (PARALLEL PORTS) Ah HA! Yet Another Non-standard Parallel Port! Given the magnitude of the overload on the driving chip's power supply, you're depending on good transient response in the source PC... which may not be a good assumption. No amount of decoupling is going to help a half-amp glitch that's a few dozen microseconds long! As we found out with DDT-51, anything you think will work really won't, at least not all the time for all the PCs. If you're doing this for a very limited application, by all means have at it. But please don't sell something that clobbers the hardware like that! The trouble with doing thiings in software is that you can't really guarantee that it'll work out right every time; hardware glitches can hang your code up in the darndest situations... like right after you output the value that will crowbar all eight outputs! Msg#:37247 *PROJECTS* 01/24/91 13:34:13 From: KENNETH SCHARF To: DALE NASSAR (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 36995 (PARALLEL PORTS) I have an old one. I can send you a photocopy. What's your address? Msg#:37274 *PROJECTS* 01/25/91 03:50:51 From: DALE NASSAR To: KENNETH SCHARF (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 37247 (PARALLEL PORTS) Boy! Thanks a million Ken. Send it to: Dale Nassar 109 Camille St. Amite, La. 70422 I'll be glad to pay for postage, copying, and hassels. --Dale Sorry if the address smeared into a long line. Msg#:37297 *PROJECTS* 01/25/91 17:32:54 From: RICH OSMAN To: ED NISLEY (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 37193 (PARALLEL PORTS) You are preachin' to the choir here. I'm doing this because desperation demands it, not because I want to. I *think* it'll work given the aforementioned constraints. It's a good thing that a few of the engineers who have worked for me in the past haven't seen this. I *Hate* this kind of thing. Oz Msg#:37408 *PROJECTS* 01/28/91 11:04:18 From: ED NISLEY To: RICH OSMAN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 37297 (PARALLEL PORTS) OK... I know the feeling. Sometimes ya gotta do what ya gotta do. Have at it! Msg#:38051 *PROJECTS* 02/11/91 14:27:41 From: DALE NASSAR To: KENNETH SCHARF (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 37247 (PARALLEL PORTS) Ken, just got the schematic, thanks again. What manual is this from? --Dale Msg#:39008 *PROJECTS* 03/07/91 10:37:20 From: KENNETH SCHARF To: DALE NASSAR (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 38051 (PARALLEL PORTS) The diagram is from the *ORIGINAL* IBM PC technical manual, from the FIRST PC (the one with FIVE expansion slots and the cassette port). Msg#:39012 *PROJECTS* 03/07/91 11:44:45 From: DALE NASSAR To: KENNETH SCHARF (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 39008 (PARALLEL PORTS) Thanks, for some reason, I always wanted one of those old (and unmodified) "5-slotters" --Dale Msg#:39049 *PROJECTS* 03/08/91 01:38:24 From: CARL SPEAROW To: KENNETH SCHARF (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 37247 (PARALLEL PORTS) I would like to get a copy of your original parallel port schematic. My address is: 2186 Bordeaux Drive, Rockford, IL 61107. I will gladly reimburse you for it. -Carl Msg#:39075 *PROJECTS* 03/08/91 15:32:43 From: KENNETH SCHARF To: CARL SPEAROW (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 39049 (PARALLEL PORTS) Send me a legal size sase and I'll drop you a photocopy of that printer diagram. K. Scharf, 851 sw 64 terrace, n. lauderdale , FL 33068. First I'll have to remember to bring in my copy to work to use the copy machine! Msg#:39095 *PROJECTS* 03/09/91 12:04:59 From: CARL SPEAROW To: KENNETH SCHARF (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 39075 (PARALLEL PORTS) ok. Thanks. -Carl Msg#:36944 *PROJECTS* 01/16/91 16:05:17 From: BILL CURLEW To: JOHN L. LOQCKE Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 36083 (SER EPROM PROGRAMMER & AMD 27512) Hi - a tip for downloads to the SEPP. I did this in BASIC, not assembly language, and there is buffer overhead and conversion being done. To insure that it's working correctly, wait for the echo of each charecter before sending the next one. I'm not sure, but I also think I may send a : after each line is processed (haven't looked at this for a while). Msg#:37025 *PROJECTS* 01/19/91 09:06:46 From: BARRY ERICK To: SANJAYA VATUK (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 31727 (SMARTSPOOLER PROBLEMS) a new problem with the spooler. I did solve no printing with the Zeos io board by lifting select thru a resistor, but have one perplexing problem. I am beta testing a program for the atari Portfolio, and to transfer files from the pc <> Atari port, I use the parallel printer interface. This works fine by taking the cable off the input of the printer spooler and attaching it to the atari parallel interface. Now the problem begin. As soon as I hook up to the spooler again, I get the printer error message. Print screen works but no other print fuction. Error on LPT1. I have looked at all lines and do not see anything wrong. Does anyone know where this problem may be, which I can so by turning this spooler on with no input while the printer is attached. This problem will not go away with a reset, or powering down. It goes away with time.. about 3 hours. --- Barry Msg#:37135 *PROJECTS* 01/21/91 22:00:29 From: SANJAYA VATUK To: BARRY ERICK (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 37025 (SMARTSPOOLER PROBLEMS) I'm afraid I'm out of ideas on this thing. I still have problems printing from TangoPCB, solved usually by cycling the printer power and trying again. I've tried shorter cables with no luck. Anyone else out there have any ideas? Good luck, -- Sanj Msg#:37165 *PROJECTS* 01/22/91 19:36:05 From: BARRY ERICK To: SANJAYA VATUK (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 37135 (SMARTSPOOLER PROBLEMS) I just tryed turn off the spooler and printer for the full time that the cable was not connected and then do the file transfer, only to turn the spooler back on when it was reconnected. Still no luck. ATTN: Circuit Cellar :::::;;;; Have you guys any idea on this stuff???? I don't really see any answers in here on some of your products other than from users. This really suprises me. --- Barry Msg#:37256 *PROJECTS* 01/24/91 19:51:43 From: SANJAYA VATUK To: BARRY ERICK (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 37165 (SMARTSPOOLER PROBLEMS) I'm looking at a schematic which may or may not be a _real_ IBM parallelcard. Instead of pullups on the output port (RN3 on the Spooler schematic), it shows .0022uF capacitors to ground on all 8 data lines as well as the strobe\ output. Maybe this would help.??? Maybe it would help me, too. -- Sanj Msg#:37300 *PROJECTS* 01/25/91 19:38:42 From: BARRY ERICK To: SANJAYA VATUK (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 37256 (SMARTSPOOLER PROBLEMS) I did have to add a cap on data line 8 for it not to intermittently print a random character (always before a "m") . My last try to to have both the printer and spooler turned off while the input was not connected, but no help. I also noticed before that I had this problem if I left the spooler or printer (can't remember which) on while the other was off, so it seems to be a lock up problem, althoug it does not clear. --- Barry Msg#:37625 *PROJECTS* 01/31/91 21:51:10 From: SANJAYA VATUK To: BARRY ERICK (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 37300 (SMARTSPOOLER PROBLEMS) I haven't had any time to see if I could improve my situation here. Sounds like you've got it much worse, tho. I assume you've checked the obvious stuff (5V ok, cables etc.) If I come up with anything else I'll let you know. Luck, -- Sanj Msg#:37708 *PROJECTS* 02/03/91 09:49:00 From: BARRY ERICK To: SANJAYA VATUK (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 37625 (SMARTSPOOLER PROBLEMS) The proble seems to be when the printer is powered up first before the spooler. Right now I get around this by turning off the spooler and printer at the same time, via my power box, disconnecting my printer cable from the input of the spooler and doing my file xfter to the portfolio. Then I power down the whole system. Computer and all. Connect the printer cable to the spooler, flip on the printer and spooler power, which is still off, since the whole system is off with its master switch, and turn all back on at once, as per normal. When I operate that way, the spooler fires up. Other wise I have to leave the whole system off for hours. I"ve even tried shorting every cap (with power off) to try to find where this "memory" is that takes hours to drain off once this situation occurs. -- Barry Msg#:37729 *PROJECTS* 02/03/91 17:49:41 From: SANJAYA VATUK To: BARRY ERICK Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 37708 (SMARTSPOOLER PROBLEMS) I find that if I power both up at the same time, TangoPcb won't pr /i /nt right. I then cycle printer power only, and it usually works. Have you tried a different parallel card ? -- Sanj Msg#:37130 *PROJECTS* 01/21/91 20:04:32 From: TOM BRUSEHAVER To: ANYONE Subj: MITEE MOUSE III I am really interested in building the motor controllers used in the MITEE mouse project in the June/July CCI. The parts are labled IRFD9020, and IRFD010 FETS, and TSC427 driver. I have looked in the DigiKey, Newark, Advance, and DC Electronics catalogs. I am about out of ideas. Are there substitute parts available, maybe the specs (or just more details) would help. Thanks. Msg#:37181 *PROJECTS* 01/23/91 03:11:21 From: TOM MOORE To: TOM BRUSEHAVER (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 37130 (MITEE MOUSE III) If you haven't already, call DigiKey and ASK them if one of their HEXFET's would work in place of what you have the number for (which looked like International Rectifier parts - but I'm not sure). Msg#:37131 *PROJECTS* 01/21/91 20:07:47 From: TOM BRUSEHAVER To: ANYONE Subj: CHEAP 68HC11 ICE I thought I would pass this along. I am using the Motorola 68HC11EVM ($168.11), and a PLCC to ribbon cable header pod emulation technology makes for an ICE. The buffalo monitor lets me debug the code I have written. There are limitations (of course at 1 tenth the price) but this has saved me many hours. Msg#:37344 *PROJECTS* 01/27/91 03:40:21 From: EDDIE WHITE To: TOM BRUSEHAVER (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 37131 (CHEAP 68HC11 ICE) Tom, Where did you get your 68hc11evm for $168.11?? I'm still being told $500+!!! thanks, Eddie Msg#:37501 *PROJECTS* 01/29/91 23:14:25 From: DAVE EWEN To: EDDIE WHITE (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 37344 (CHEAP 68HC11 ICE) I'll bet he means evb not evm :-) Msg#:37675 *PROJECTS* 02/02/91 03:28:51 From: EDDIE WHITE To: DAVE EWEN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 37501 (CHEAP 68HC11 ICE) I have the evb and it does not have any kind of remote cable/ pod to extend to another board. Msg#:37718 *PROJECTS* 02/03/91 13:50:33 From: DAVE EWEN To: EDDIE WHITE (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 37675 (CHEAP 68HC11 ICE) Well, I think you can make a cable-socket "pod" for an evb if you want to. That's what the one connector is for... The exact difference between the evb and evm is not known by me, but I know the evm is much more expensive. Msg#:37758 *PROJECTS* 02/04/91 09:53:43 From: BURT BROWN To: DAVE EWEN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 37718 (CHEAP 68HC11 ICE) The Motorola EValuation Boards (EVB) are low-cost,no-frills circuit boards designed to allow you to experiment with a particular processor. They usually have just enough circuitry to get the MCU up and running and that's it. Most are supplied with some sort of software for the PC which will let you download to RAM or program internal MCU (E)EPROM on those parts that have a bootstrap loader in ROM. Several of the boards aren't much more than the "minimum system configuration" listed in the databook for the chip. EVB's cost around $170-$200. (Motorola likes to set cute prices like $168.11 for the 68HC11 EVB). The EValuation Modules (EVM) are *much* different. For instance, the HC11 EVM has a complete expanded mode system with dual 64K memory maps and the XC68HC24 PRU. You can set up for true in-circuit emulation with breakpoints, single-stepping, etc. and configure the "pod" for either single-chip or expanded mode emulation. There's an on-board monitor with line assembler/disassembler and facilities for downloading S-records from the host PC. EVM's cost around $600 depending on the processor. This is still a pretty good deal considering what you would pay from HP or Tektronix for the same functionality. Oh yea, the EVM's usually have one or more sockets for programming either the DIP or PLCC MCUs. The HC11EVM has this fancy PLCC ZIF socket on it. Looks expensive anyway ... --Burt Msg#:37911 *PROJECTS* 02/07/91 12:19:02 From: ARLEN FLETCHER To: TOM BRUSEHAVER (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 37131 (CHEAP 68HC11 ICE) Tom where did you find the 68hc11EVM for $168? Msg#:37930 *PROJECTS* 02/07/91 22:37:49 From: MATTHEW TAYLOR To: ARLEN FLETCHER (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 37911 (CHEAP 68HC11 ICE) He must've meant the HC6811EVB. Your local Motorola office should be able to give you a number of a local distributor. Regards, Matt Msg#:37964 *PROJECTS* 02/08/91 13:23:45 From: ARLEN FLETCHER To: MATTHEW TAYLOR (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 37930 (CHEAP 68HC11 ICE) I think you must be right. Thanks. Msg#:38167 *PROJECTS* 02/14/91 13:13:14 From: KURT EHRHARDT To: MATTHEW TAYLOR (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 37930 (CHEAP 68HC11 ICE) I purchased a 68HC11EVB for $68.11 a while back during a Moto Promotion. I think I got it from Kierulff (excuse the spelling) Electronics. Don't have the address handy unfortunately. Msg#:38205 *PROJECTS* 02/14/91 23:07:01 From: MATTHEW TAYLOR To: KURT EHRHARDT (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 38167 (CHEAP 68HC11 ICE) Motorola was refunding the $68.11 to each and every person that purchased the kit and mailed back a 'test' that received a passing grade. Good promotion, huh! Regards, Matt. Msg#:38339 *PROJECTS* 02/18/91 21:24:48 From: TOM BRUSEHAVER To: EDDIE WHITE (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 37344 (CHEAP 68HC11 ICE) I lied, its a 68hc11evb. Active electronics has 'em in the catalog. Msg#:38340 *PROJECTS* 02/18/91 21:27:56 From: TOM BRUSEHAVER To: EDDIE WHITE (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 37675 (CHEAP 68HC11 ICE) The EVB has a 60 pin header. This header has the 'same' pinout as the 68hc11. I bought the pod from emulation technology. It works pretty good. You gotta watch out for pull up/down resistors on your c{i]rcut or their circut{, and the clock may or may not interfere. Msg#:38341 *PROJECTS* 02/18/91 21:30:01 From: TOM BRUSEHAVER To: EDDIE WHITE (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 37344 (CHEAP 68HC11 ICE) The 68HC11 evb has a monitor rom up to 16K of ram, the monitor has LOTS of debugging features (break points, single stepping, register watching etc). Msg#:37187 *PROJECTS* 01/23/91 08:45:49 From: KEITH GILMAN To: JEFF BACHIOCHI (Rcvd) Subj: RTCIO PROBLEMS I need some technical help on an A/D problem. I am using the RTC52 and RTCIO boards from Micromint for temperature measurements. I have set up a test circuit to simulate the temperature sensors by connecting potentiometers from +5v to ground using the center tap as the input to the A/D converter. On one channel (channel 0) I have used a 10K-ohm pot, on the other channel (channel 1) I have used a 1Meg ohm pot. For some reason when channel 1 (1-meg) is set to read about 1-2 volts and channel 0 (10K) is adjusted from 0 to 5 volts reading channel 1 will drift by as much as 1 volt. I have all other channels grounded and have used a DVM to measure the voltage going in to channel 0 and 1. The voltage readings on my DVM do not fluctuate. Here is the algorithm I am using to read the voltages: XBY(0E0010H) = 0 V1 = XBY(0E0010H) XBY(0E0011H) = 0 V2 = XBY(0E0011H) Any clues? Thanks Keith Gilman Msg#:37245 *PROJECTS* 01/24/91 11:09:35 From: STEVE CIARCIA To: KEITH GILMAN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 37187 (RTCIO PROBLEMS) The 1 meg pot is too high for the relatively low input impedance of the A/D used on the RTC I/O. I'd say a 10K pot is about as high as you'd want to go. It will be even better with the temperature sensors themselves. I'd guess thed have an impedance less than 1K. --Steve PS A DVM usually has an input impedance of 5-10 meg. Msg#:37254 *PROJECTS* 01/24/91 15:47:02 From: KEITH GILMAN To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 37245 (RTCIO PROBLEMS) Thanks Steve, I actually did revert to using 10K on both inputs! Keith Msg#:37260 *PROJECTS* 01/24/91 21:41:54 From: DAN RAHME To: BURT BROWN (Rcvd) Subj: BASIC11 - RDMP.BAS Hello Burt, Just a quick note to say "Thanx" for the message (#36842) you sent regarding Basic11 and the rdmp.bas program. I haven't had much time lately but I did manage to get my Basic11 program to run on my EVBU pca at boot-up. I also managed to upgrade my XELTEK software in the process. Anyway, I'm hoping I can trouble you once more with a few questions about RDMP.BAS. Since I'm running on different hardware ( Motorola's EVBU pca ), I'd like to make sure it's just not good luck and good looks that got my app running under Basic11. Anyway....here goes - ; ; ; 1) On line 31630 the REM says that OF is $6F0B for a user start of $1100 for Ram. Would you explain how $6F0B is calculated?? I couldn't figure it out from looking on the memory maps in the article. ; ; 2) In line 31680 SA=$d000 - in your message to me (#36842) you mentioned that one of the starting addresses is $D000. When I put Basic11 into EPROM, it starts @ E000. What's happening here? My app starts @ $8000 ( beginning of EPROM ) and goes for a few hindred bytes, then I get a copy of RDMP.BAS and then blank space up to $E000 which is where Basic11 begins. ; ; ; 3) Is there a way to prevent RDMP.BAS from ending up in EPROM?? It's tackeon following the app program. ; ; ; Thanx again for the help and input. Gonna cut off now cause this is getting a little longer than I'd planned. Hope you don't fall asleep reading it. Dan Rahme Msg#:37397 *PROJECTS* 01/28/91 10:08:16 From: BURT BROWN To: DAN RAHME (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 37260 (BASIC11 - RDMP.BAS) Hi. Sorry about that $6F0B "magic number"; definitely not good programming practice and of course this was one of those programs no one was ever supposed to see :-)... The $6F0B is an offset used to calculate where in EPROM the BASIC11 program starts. I'm not quite sure why I didn't just read the EEStart value and add $0B to it; it might have had something to do with checking if the program in RAM was too big for EPROM. Keep in mind that the version of BASIC11 described in the article (and as well as the version shipped with Micromint's RTC-HC11, are quite a bit different from what you get from the FREEWARE bbs. As you've noticed, one of the differences is that BASIC now starts at $d000 instead of $e000. I don't see any reason why you couldn't keep RDMP form going into the EPROM. You'll have to figure out how much RAM the RDMP code takes up and adjust the BASIC end address (BE) as well as the highest program line number (HL). Just as a side note, the version of BASIC11 now shipping with the RTC-HC11 has an S-Record dump feature incorporated within the interpreter itself. Hope this helps, Burt ... Msg#:37368 *PROJECTS* 01/27/91 21:14:03 From: PAUL HUBBARD To: ALL USERS Subj: MINI-DSP Hi, I'm new to the BBS and I've a question for the more-educated-than-I types-I read with great interest the Mini-DSP article in the last issue, and was wondering if anyone knows if PC board layouts or boards are available anywhere? I have an EPROM burner, soldering gear &bench but lack the know-how to lay out a pc board. Any help would be appreciated! Msg#:37372 *PROJECTS* 01/27/91 23:30:34 From: PAUL PETERSEN To: PAUL HUBBARD (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 37368 (MINI-DSP) paul, laying out pc boards is a career field in itself, usually done by draftsmen in years goneby. there are big $$$ commercial progs avail and one or two shareware cheepies. check out 'PCROUTE' in the files area. just following the included sample layout will give you a good idea of what's involved. when you actually get ready to etch a board radio shack has a $8 kit that includes a copper board and a bunch of dry transfer elements.... finally...getting a single board made up from your own artwork is almost impossible at any reasonable price. many, many, have asked...few have found there are a couple of outfits that do onesies for about $50+ each if you decide you want to continue let me know and i'll pass along some names. for now at least your best route is to go with PCROUTE and the radio shack kit. cheers Msg#:37420 *PROJECTS* 01/28/91 11:37:27 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: PAUL HUBBARD (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 37368 (MINI-DSP) Sorry, but there is nothing available for the Mini-DSP in the form of PC boards, kits, or complete units. If you want one, you'll have to start wire-wrapping. Msg#:37653 *PROJECTS* 02/01/91 12:41:54 From: WARD ELDER To: JEFF BACHIOCHI (Rcvd) Subj: V25 PALS I have a quick question. What compiler did you use to create the PALS for the V25 project? Where did you get it and how much did it cost? The PAL/GAL compiler I have is not too good and I would like to upgrade to a more full function compiler. (MACROs and such) Thanks for your time, Ward Elder Msg#:37657 *PROJECTS* 02/01/91 14:35:49 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: WARD ELDER (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 37653 (V25 PALS) That depends on what device you're talking about. The current RTC-V25s use AmPAL22P10 parts and we used PLPL from AMD to compile them. The protoypes used PEEL22CV10 parts from ICT and we were able to convert the original files for them. We'll soon be switching to PEEL173s and used APEEL from ICT to recompile the devices. In all cases, the PAL/PEEL compiler software was free from the manufacturer. Msg#:37658 *PROJECTS* 02/01/91 14:38:18 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: WARD ELDER (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 37657 (V25 PALS) By the way, just remember that we've never used PALs, PEELs, or whatever on any project to do any more than simple combinatorial logic, so have never needed anything fancy from a compiler. The packages I mentioned do at least the minimum necessary to make a JEDEC file from a series of sum-of-products equations. Since we've never needed more, I don't know if they'll do more. Msg#:37734 *PROJECTS* 02/03/91 23:26:20 From: WARD ELDER To: KEN DAVIDSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 37657 (V25 PALS) Sorry to bother you again. Thanks for the info on the compiler. Do you have addresses for the two companies offering the compilers? The compiler I have does not seem to support half what your compilers support. I would like to try out thies compilers but do not know where to get them. Thanks for your time, Ward Elder Msg#:37753 *PROJECTS* 02/04/91 09:22:40 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: WARD ELDER (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 37734 (V25 PALS) Advanced Micro Devices 901 Thompson Place P.O. Box 3453 Sunnyvale, CA 94088-3453 (408) 732-2400 (800) 538-8450 (800) 222-9323 (Applications Hotline) International CMOS Technology, Inc. 2125 Lundy Ave. San Jose, CA 95131 (408) 434-0678 Msg#:37770 *PROJECTS* 02/04/91 12:30:47 From: WARD ELDER To: KEN DAVIDSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 37753 (V25 PALS) Thanks for the info. Ward Elder Msg#:37709 *PROJECTS* 02/03/91 09:52:00 From: DAVID JAMES To: ALL Subj: MINI-DSP The mini dsp project looks like just the thing for anyone wanting to learn about the topic. I have taken some graduate EE courses at the local university in this area but there's only so much one can learn from a text book. I have very little knowledge of the TMS320E15. Where can one get single parts ? The same for the AD7559 ? Can an external EPROM be used or better yet how about dual ported RAM for program code loadable from a serial interface. The cost of a small delvelopment system is not reasonable for the basement experimenter. Any help on parts procurement would be appreciated. Msg#:37763 *PROJECTS* 02/04/91 10:39:10 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: DAVID JAMES (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 37709 (MINI-DSP) Please search for messages already posted before asking what's already been answered. Searching the subject fields for strings like "MINI" or "DSP" will often save you a lot of time. Message 37567 addresses most of your issues and was posted by the author. Steve Reyer calls here every few days, so you can ask him questions directly about the project. Msg#:37731 *PROJECTS* 02/03/91 22:04:17 From: MURRAY COHEN To: BURT BROWN (Rcvd) Subj: NEW 68HC11 BOARD Steve, I enjoyed your new article on the 68hc11 board. I'll be ordering one soon. How can I add two cmos static simms to to address about 512K bytes? I have an application for a data logger. I could get by with 256K if I had to. Msg#:38313 *PROJECTS* 02/18/91 10:12:54 From: BURT BROWN To: MURRAY COHEN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 37731 (NEW 68HC11 BOARD) That's going to be somewhat difficult due to the fact that the HC11 MCU can only directly address 64K of memory. Your looking at some sort of bank switching setup; maybe a 16K or 32K bank size with i/o port lines acting as (multiplexed) bank selects. I'd take another look at just how much data you really need to save and wheter you could compress/eliminate some of it befire storage. There are also many other CPU's which would be easier to interface to your 512K of static memory. Msg#:38345 *PROJECTS* 02/18/91 23:33:08 From: MURRAY COHEN To: BURT BROWN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 38313 (NEW 68HC11 BOARD) How hard would it be to take a 256 or 512 simm or equiv. and use 32K pages and put it in the middle of the 68hc11 memory map. Could it be done by adding a i/o address for a latch for the higher pages? I was just reading the article by Markus Levy regarding the Flash Memory module that he designed. He seems to have the idea in hand. The question is how does one impliment it on the 68HC11. Going to another processor will just ruin my day. I have been studying the 6809 and HC11 for a while and I prefer not to start over. The idea of using Flash memory for the additional memory sounds interesting since the main use I have for the memory is for use as a data logger. Mark mentions the use of an intel memory card. I wonder if there are 512K memory cards that can be used for this purpose. Any commemts would be appreciated for your or anyone else interested in this problem. Msg#:38362 *PROJECTS* 02/19/91 10:21:10 From: BURT BROWN To: MURRAY COHEN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 38345 (NEW 68HC11 BOARD) The easiest thing to do would probably be to use the 'K4 version of the 68HC11. That part has a 1MB expanded address space with on-chip selects and decoding. You get the larger address space and still retain HC11 compatibility. It's in an 80 pin PQFP or 84 pin PLCC package; I'm not sure about the price. You could probably also hang something like a 74595 serial-in, parallel-out shift register on the SPI bus and then shove 8-bit "page" addresses out the SPI. Be forewarned; sometime soon Curt will pick up on this thread and start looking for an article ;-)! Msg#:38366 *PROJECTS* 02/19/91 10:36:19 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: MURRAY COHEN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 38345 (NEW 68HC11 BOARD) Note too that the version of the HC11 that Burt mentioned won't go into an RTC-HC11 board. The RTC board uses a 52-pin PLCC processor where the one Burt cites comes in an 84-pin PLCC package. If you try to force additional functionality onto a board that it just wasn't designed to accept gracefully, you're going to have all kinds of problems. If you want 256K of memory, you should use a board designed either with that much memory on the board or with memory expansion capability. The RTC-HC11 board fits neither category. If you want a small, off-the-shelf board with that much memory, then you should be looking at either the RTC-V25 or the BCC180. If you must use a Motorola part and want that much memory, then be prepared to start designing from the ground up. Msg#:38375 *PROJECTS* 02/19/91 22:53:42 From: MURRAY COHEN To: KEN DAVIDSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 38366 (NEW 68HC11 BOARD) I was just getting used to the Motorola code. I don't intend to use the extra memory to execute code. Would it be hard to create an additional i/o port which controls a 8 bit latch that will intern toggle the high order address lines?? Msg#:38382 *PROJECTS* 02/20/91 02:58:08 From: FRANK HENRIQUEZ To: MURRAY COHEN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 38375 (NEW 68HC11 BOARD) Why can't you use bank switching? if your memory is static (or looks stat ic to the processor) then you're OK. The RTC11 has decoded three 8K memory banks for external I/O. If you can live with 8K slices through your memory, you could probably come up with some sort of bank switch scheme that slides one of those 8K memory windows through your memory. Msg#:38390 *PROJECTS* 02/20/91 08:14:32 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: MURRAY COHEN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 38375 (NEW 68HC11 BOARD) Yes, bank switching would work just fine as long as you're not trying to use DRAM. You might have to use newer 128K x 8 SRAMs to fit as much memory as you're looking for onto an RTC-size expansion board. Msg#:38397 *PROJECTS* 02/20/91 09:36:48 From: BURT BROWN To: MURRAY COHEN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 38375 (NEW 68HC11 BOARD) See my previous msg. I suggested an 'ls595 on the SPI for a quick and dirty 8-bit port that doesn't take up a memory address. Msg#:38444 *PROJECTS* 02/22/91 00:09:19 From: MURRAY COHEN To: BURT BROWN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 38397 (NEW 68HC11 BOARD) I am going to get the data sheet on that I.C. and see if I can get it working. I'm not quite sure if I want to give up the seriel port yet. I would like to use it to talk to possible another processor board. I found a single 512K byte by 8 w/on-board decoder. It fits into a single 32 Pin socket. The only problem is that they sell for $ 262.00 ea. I found a single 256X8 cmos SIMM. I might try starting with a bit smaller memory. Burt is there any special programing problem regarding timing etc. using the shift register approch ? Msg#:38540 *PROJECTS* 02/24/91 22:20:51 From: BURT BROWN To: MURRAY COHEN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 38444 (NEW 68HC11 BOARD) The shift register chip is interfaced through the SPI which is Motorola's synchronous serial interface; this is *not* the standard asynchrounous serial port that is commonly connected to a terminal. The SPI generally doesn't get a whole lot of use so it's a good place to interface special purpose stuff onto ... --Burt Msg#:37750 *PROJECTS* 02/04/91 09:11:15 From: KEVIN GORGA To: ALL Subj: SP1000 DOES ANYONE HAVE ANY INFO ON HOW TO USE THE SP1000. I HAVE A SHORT ELECTRICAL DATA SHEET BUT I CAN'T FIND ANY DETAILED PROGRAMMING INFO. DOES ANYONE STILL HAVE THE DATA AROUND FROM STEVE'S ORIGINAL ARTICLE? OR MAYBE A SOFTWARE LISTING? THANKS. Msg#:37768 *PROJECTS* 02/04/91 11:29:11 From: DALE NASSAR To: KEVIN GORGA (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 37750 (SP1000) Kevin, if you are intrested I have the entire assembled sp1000 unit with the speach output and software. I think I paid something like $250 for the kit. Since I no longer have an Apple computer, it is for sale--cheap. I'll take $90 for the whole thing (manuals included) --Dale Msg#:37788 *PROJECTS* 02/04/91 23:31:35 From: TRENT GEMMILL To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: MICRO D-CAM I AM CURRENTLY INTERESTED IN CONSTRUCTING A LOW RESOLUTION IR CAMERA. AFTER RUMMAGING THROUGH MY BACK ISSUES OF BYTE AND CC INK I WAS UNABLE TO FIND THE ISSUE IT WAS IN. I WAS HOPING YOU COULD TELL ME WHAT ISSUE IT WAS IN AND IF YOU KNEW WHETHER THE OPTIC RAM WAS SENSITIVE TO IR. I WOULD GREATLY APPRECIATE YOUR HELP. THE ONLY OTHER REFERENCE TO A LOW-RES DIGITAL DEVICE CAPIBLE OF RECIEVING IR I COULD FIND WAS A MOS DEVICE IN A '75 RADIO ELECTRONICS - THE SOURCE OF WHICH HAS LONG MOVED. THANKS AGAIN! TRENT Msg#:37794 *PROJECTS* 02/05/91 02:53:56 From: TOM MOORE To: TRENT GEMMILL (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 37788 (MICRO D-CAM) I'm not sure which issue this is from either, but the Optic RAM you spoke of is for sale from Circuit Cellar Kits (4 Park Street, Vernon, CT. 06066, tel# 203/875-2751) at $25.00. The few actual CCD chips I've played with REALLY like IR, to the point of needing an IR-blocking filter for normal usage. I think Sylvanias (sp?) Solid-State Imaging dept. has some nice chips for around $30 (something you could use for TV applications with minimal fuss). Good luck! Msg#:37808 *PROJECTS* 02/05/91 09:21:34 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: TRENT GEMMILL (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 37788 (MICRO D-CAM) The Dcam article was in the September and October '83 issues of BYTE and is reprinted in volume 5 of the Ciarcia's Circuit Cellar books. I don't know how sensitive the optic RAM is to IR, but I can verify that CCDs love IR. Steve has more stories about using a CCD camera to work with his IR laser diodes when he couldn't see their beams with the naked eye (not that you'd want to, though). Msg#:37842 *PROJECTS* 02/05/91 23:26:59 From: TRENT GEMMILL To: TOM MOORE (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 37794 (MICRO D-CAM) THANKS FOR THE HELP. I'LL TAKE A LOOK AT THE OLD BYTES AND CHECK OUT THE SYLVANIA CHIPS. THANKS TRENT Msg#:37855 *PROJECTS* 02/06/91 04:53:50 From: JERRY KISSACK To: ED NISLEY (Rcvd) Subj: DDT-51 Dear Ed, I'm a little behind with my projects here but finally got around to finishing up the wire wrapping to my DDT-51. I have downloaded a couple different versions of KERNEL.HEX, one has a file date of 12/12/88 and the other is 4/5/89. With the earlier version, I can next load BLINKY.HEX and get it running and the LED blinking, but, when I try to single step, I get the "8031 didn't halt in time" message. With the 4/5/89 version of KERNEL.HEX, I can load, run, and single step through BLINKY.HEX without problems. With the earlier version of KERNEL.HEX, I can run and single step KERNEL.HEX's placeholder itself and get the same results given in the firmware furnace - DDT-51 Reavealed, CCI Nov/Dec 88 Vol 1 No. 6, so maybe this is just the way things are supposed to work (?) Maybe BLINKY.HEX was not intended to be loaded with the earlier version of KERNEL.HEX, or do I have hardware problems? All the TESTER routines seem to work fine, although I don't decifer Pascal very well, and the comments are a bit vague for me... Maybe you can shed some light on this for me. One last thing. You guys are doing a fantastic job. I subscribe to several electronic related magazines and your's is without question the best by far... Best Regards Jerry Kissack Yucaipa, CA Msg#:37864 *PROJECTS* 02/06/91 08:56:55 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: JERRY KISSACK (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 37855 (DDT-51) I guess I'll say it before Ed does. All the software posted here is the absolute latest of all the versions. If you have a mish-mash of previously downloaded code, you probably should throw it all away and download everything again just to be sure there aren't any version conflicts. Msg#:38093 *PROJECTS* 02/12/91 11:49:05 From: ED NISLEY To: JERRY KISSACK (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 37855 (DDT-51) Thanks for the kind words; it's always good to hear that we're on the right course! As far as the DDT-51 software versions go, the changes between the versions were minor and shouldn't affect how the BLINKY test program runs... which means you probably have a glitch running around somewhere. One common problem is decoding the Target RAM: you must ensure that it responds to addresses only between 0000 and 7FFF. The simplest way is to use A15 as the chip enable line (-CE means it'll be activated only when A15 is low, which is just what you want). The symptoms of not decoding the RAM correctly can be bizarre, because it is colliding with the Debug RAM accesses and the resulting errors depend on the data in both RAMs. Because you've read the notes, you probably already have a specially wired flat ribbon cable between the parallel port and the DDT-51 board. Remember that you can't use a round shielded cable because there's enough crosstalk between the data lines and the control lines to glitch the '374 latches (again, with bizarre and unpredictable results). Take a look at your Target system and see if you've got the RAM decoded.. if you have, give us a few more details and we'll walk you through a few more options! Reading ahead to your other message... I'll cheerfully admit that we don't annotate all the possible differences between the versions, particularly any differences that may show up in relation to screen shots in the articles... for reasons that should seem obvious if you think about the situation for a while... However, it's tough for us to figure out what you mean by "does not concur with ... the article" from your description. Do the register values differ? Are you seeing different instructions than you'd expect? Does the screen go into "pinball panic" mode? What, exactly, is wrong? Give us details and we can be surprisingly helpful! With that said, though, I think it's generally a good assumption that the project code on the BBS passes the initial dipstick test: it'll work right out of the box. Yes, there have been some errors (and I've contributed my share!), but they tend to get fixed shortly after they're discovered (which may take years, in some cases). If your project doesn't do the reasonable thing right off the bat, there is most likely something wrong with your circuitry... What KERNEL should do, regardless of the version, is single step, run, and breakpoint your 8051 code. Rather than expecting exact matches on the screens, you should be asking yourself whether the program is doing what it should. The differences between what it does and what it should be doing are the ways you find the hardware problems! I'm not mad at you, but you've got to remember that a few hundred other people have built DDT-51 systems, debugged them, gotten them running, and are off and using them right now. We've tinkered the code a little in response to problems they encountered, using conversations on this BBS as the main means of sharing information, and the code you've seen has stable for the last few years. Trust us, we're not out to trick you! Msg#:37870 *PROJECTS* 02/06/91 13:16:52 From: RICHARD LEE STUDLEY To: DDT51 USERS Subj: CROSS ASSEM. Please set me straight.I have the DDT-51. I bought the "Learn C now" tutorial,Mix C compiler/debugger,etc. My goal is to write higher level programs mixed with assembler, and shove these puppies into little controllers. I've never used a cross-assembler, but I've written some pretty involved Z80 assembly programs 1k-8K for a digital audio delay a few years ago. What steps (and software) do I need to compile these operating systems on an Ibm, then control down to the registers and I/O;memory of 80c31. Thanks.LEE Msg#:37929 *PROJECTS* 02/07/91 22:36:15 From: MATTHEW TAYLOR To: RICHARD LEE STUDLEY (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 37870 (CROSS ASSEM.) Unless you have the source to the Mix C compiler, and plan on porting it to the 8052, there is no way you can generate 8052 code with Mix C. You need a C compiler SPECIFICALLY written for the 8052 family. Regards, Matt Msg#:37936 *PROJECTS* 02/08/91 01:26:59 From: RICHARD LEE STUDLEY To: MATTHEW TAYLOR (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 37929 (CROSS ASSEM.) That makes sense. Then what does a cross assembler do. Does it just alow you to create code on an IBM etc(8088) that will run on the target system, or does it take code for one cpu and translate it to run on another CPU through some type of register reassignment? LEE Msg#:37938 *PROJECTS* 02/08/91 02:00:55 From: ERIC BOHLMAN To: RICHARD LEE STUDLEY (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 37870 (CROSS ASSEM.) A cross assembler is an assembler that runs on one machine (say an IBM PC) and assembles code for another machine (say an 8052). You write the program in "target" (i.e. 8052) mnemonics. A cross compiler is the same thing, except that it deals with a high-level rather than assembly language. Msg#:38012 *PROJECTS* 02/09/91 16:22:13 From: PAUL PETERSEN To: ERIC BOHLMAN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 37938 (CROSS ASSEM.) thanks for explaining that... i've wondered what a cross assembler does for the longest time now... this bbs is as good as reading a magazine. Msg#:38023 *PROJECTS* 02/09/91 21:16:18 From: RICHARD LEE STUDLEY To: ERIC BOHLMAN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 37938 (CROSS ASSEM.) thanks for clearing that up.I just got this issue of INK, it has a section on 8051 compilers,so that should help. I'll still use the mix compiler to help me get familiar with "c". It sounds like you have some experience with these compilers. Do you recommend one? p.s. I wont be logging on as much as I would like, so if I dont reply promtly thats why. thanks for any info. LEE Msg#:37882 *PROJECTS* 02/06/91 21:21:44 From: DAVID MERRIMAN To: CCINK Subj: SMARTSPOOLER Have assembled and tested my recently-purchases SmartSpooler, and am VERY pleased with it (it's spitting out a 266,138 byte text file, even as I'm typing this!). I have a couple of programs that REQUIRE the use of a COM port for output, and would like to know if there is any problem/risk with connecting my SmartSpooler so that it is connected to both my printer and com ports AT THE SAME TIME. I realise that I can't USE both at the same time, but it >would< simplify things a little if I could at least have them both hooked up. Would the spooler go off into the Bit Zone, get stubborn and not do anything, Halt and Catch Fire, or am what I proposing a valid option? From a technician/assembler's point of view, my only regret about the SmartSpooler is thaconnector8 was set up for use with a daughterboard, instead obeing set up so that adjacent pairs of contacts were parallel connections for the LEDs and switches, so that a ribbon cable could be split apart to make the connections to the LEDs and switches- that would have simplified and "cleaned up" the assembly a little, I think. Either way, it's still a GREAT little device- beats heck out of a literal print "spooler"! Msg#:37904 *PROJECTS* 02/07/91 09:06:30 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: DAVID MERRIMAN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 37882 (SMARTSPOOLER) You should *never* connect more than two RS-232 devices together at a time, regardless of whether they are used or not. Assuming they are all powered up, their drivers are always active. Serial switch boxes are fairly inexpensive. Just use one of those. Msg#:37909 *PROJECTS* 02/07/91 11:48:14 From: DAVID MERRIMAN To: KEN DAVIDSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 37904 (SMARTSPOOLER) I know better than to connect more than one RS232 device; my question was whether or not I could leave my LPT1 and COM2 ports both connected to the SmartSpooler (but use only one at a time). I already HAVE an RS232 switch box, and really do need it: RS232 HP7475 plotter, RS232 HP ThinkJet printer, RS232 speech synthesizer, RS232 fiberoptic interface, and a modem. <]Dave[> Msg#:37949 *PROJECTS* 02/08/91 09:01:46 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: DAVID MERRIMAN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 37909 (SMARTSPOOLER) Oh, definitely. Using the buttons on front, you can use the spooler as a switchbox between parallel and serial devices. I guess I misunderstood your original question. Msg#:37961 *PROJECTS* 02/08/91 10:54:24 From: DAVID MERRIMAN To: KEN DAVIDSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 37949 (SMARTSPOOLER) Okay, thanks, Ken; I >thought< I could do that, but was reluctant to try it out without double-checking first. <]Dave[> Msg#:37910 *PROJECTS* 02/07/91 12:08:17 From: GEORGE NICOLACOPULOS To: ALL Subj: CCD CAMERA Several years ago Steve C. ran an article in Byte about building a CCD camera with a special type of memory chip. I was wondering if anyone couuaI ld po >int me to the specific issue ? Thanks. Msg#:37932 *PROJECTS* 02/07/91 22:58:37 From: RICHARD LEE STUDLEY To: GEORGE NICOLACOPULOS (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 37910 (CCD CAMERA) sept '83 oct '83, but I recommend the circuit cellar volume V which has both articles in it. volume VI and VII are good also for all the const. articles f /rom Byte mag.GOOD LUCK. LEE Msg#:37952 *PROJECTS* 02/08/91 09:10:01 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: GEORGE NICOLACOPULOS (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 37910 (CCD CAMERA) It was called the Micro Dcam and was not a CCD camera. It was based on a DRAM chip that had its cover removed. The project has long since been replaced by the ImageWise video digitizer, but the optic RAM chips are available alone from Circuit Cellar Kits (203/875-2751). Msg#:37941 *PROJECTS* 02/08/91 02:50:27 From: JERRY KISSACK To: ED NISLEY/KEN DAVIDSON Subj: DDT-51 #37855/37864 Hi Ed and/or Ken, Thanks for the quick response. I realize mixing versions would not be a good idea, and that's why I made seperate subdirectories for the each, therefore, the versions should not be mixed. I do want to point out something! Here's what I've got: file date KERNEL.HEX 12/12/88 (from KERNEL.ARC 8/06/89) BLINKY.HEX 12/28/89 (uncompressed) (earlier versions) Loading and stepping the above version of KERNEL.HEX's test loop concurs with the info in the "DDT-51 Revealed" article by Ed Nisley, Nov/Dec 88 Vol 1, No. 6. Here's the problem, when BLINKY.HEX is next loaded and run, it works fine, and the LED blinks, but when trying to step the program, the "8031 did not halt in time" message occurs. I noticed the file dates are seperated by more than a year, although the archive date is closer. Maybe they don't belong together(?) Oddly enough, this BLINKY.HEX file date is later than the version currently on the CCI BBS. Being only a few lines, I printed out both versions of BLINKY.HEX and found them indentical. ========================================================================= file date KERNEL.HEX 4/5/89 (from KERNEL.ZIP 2/01/91) BLINKY.HEX 4/4/89 (from TEST31.ZIP 2/01/91) (latest versions) Loading and stepping the test loop in this version of KERNEL.HEX does NOT! concur with the "DDT-51 Revealed" article. Also, I can find NO text files on the BBS that explain why(?) Loading BLINKY.HEX over the test loop in this version of KERNEL.HEX works flawlessly, I.E., it can be run and the LED blinks, and also stepped to view the 8031 states. NOTE! A POSSIBLY CONFUSING AND FRUSTRATING SITUATION CAN OCCUR WITH THE CURRENT VERSION OF KERNEL.HEX ON THE CCI BBS! (((?)(?))) ^^ \/\/\/\/ The latest version of KERNEL.HEX does NOT concur with the DDT-51 Revealed article. Someone, like me, may think they have hardware problems when stepping KERNEL.HEX's test loop, because the results they get are different than those explained in that article. Believe me, you get quite a sinking feeling when the results are different than what they should be. This must obviously be a result of the revision to KERNEL.HEX that has taken place. Again, I've just downloaded all the latest text files and they say nothing about this. I'm reasonably sure my hardware is working fine, but would feel better if I had no doubt about it at all. Since I built my DDT-51 from scratch, I do wonder... Best Regards :-) Jerry Kissack Yucaipa, CA Msg#:37980 *PROJECTS* 02/08/91 23:13:04 From: DAVID J. HOUSLEY To: TODD PIERCE Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 35986 (HOME ROBOTS WANTED) Todd, I think I found the info you need. I came across an add from Mendelson Electronics company advertising a surplus Hero 2000 for $399.95, plus several sub-system kits. Check the March '91 issue of Radio-Electronics, page 52S(the Shopper section), for the ad. The complete address of the place is: Mendelson Electronics Co.,Inc. 340 E. First St. Dayton, Ohio 45402 (800)-422-3525 Good luck, and happy hacking! Msg#:38005 *PROJECTS* 02/09/91 13:01:05 From: MATTHEW OLSON To: STEVE CIARCIA (Rcvd) Subj: HAL Steve: I am doing some nerve response tests of the median nerve of the arms. This involves pickup of signals (20 to 60 microvolt) in the fingertip regions, in response to a pulse stimulus of between 100 to 300 volts applied to the wrist area. I am using an instrumentation amplifier similar to your design in the HAL project of a couple of years ago. Basically the filter sections were tailored to match signal response in the range of 200 Hz up to about 2kHz. I have been using disposable pre-gelled silver-silver chloride electrodes. They seem to work OK, but only for about 10 to 15 minutes, at which point the pickup capability deteriorates rapidly. I have also tried a non-disposable electrode with Spectra 360 electrode gel which did not work at all. I assume that there is some type of chemical reaction going on with the gel. Is this normal or am I using the wrong type gel and/or electrodes ? Steve, any insight into this from you or anybody else (medical/chemical types) would be appreciated. Thanks, Matt ps. Great article on the Motorola MC68HC11 in CCI. Its nice to see some Motorola activity. Now how about the lowly 'HC05 family? Msg#:38117 *PROJECTS* 02/12/91 22:50:37 From: DAVID MERRIMAN To: CCINK Subj: SMARTSPOOLER I would like to suggest that on the next iteration of the SmartSpooler, you consider implementing some method of flow control on the serial output of the SmartSpooler- it's the greatest thing since peanut butter for doing regular printer buffering, but the lack of flow control on the serial output means that I can't use my serial printer (HP ThinkJet) or plotter (HP 7475) at a useful speed: to ensure that I don't lose data, I have to make sure that the data transfer rate is at (or slower) than the "processing" speed(s) of the device(s). Adding a little "smarts" to implement XON/XOFF, and the hardware for hardwire, would be a Real Nice Feature. I'm really not trying to complain, mind you, I just thought that you might like to have a little (more) feedback from a builder. I have it, like it (a LOT!), and am glad that I bought it; it's just that this ONE LITTLE AREA that strikes me as being a little lacking. Dave Merriman Msg#:38160 *PROJECTS* 02/14/91 10:42:14 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: DAVID MERRIMAN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 38117 (SMARTSPOOLER) Um, did you receive a manual with that Spooler? Um, did you read the manual that came with the Spooler? Both hardware and XON/XOFF handshaking are fully implemented on both of the serial ports. It's completely explained in the manual. Msg#:38251 *PROJECTS* 02/16/91 16:21:40 From: DAVID MERRIMAN To: KEN DAVIDSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 38160 (SMARTSPOOLER) The manual that >I< got said on page 5 (last paragraph) that the following table summarizeSerial output port handshaking options: TO SmartSpooler: CTS TO SmartSpooler: XON/XOFF Maybe I need to go back into the manual, as well as double-check my devices, to make sure they're wired "right" (+/- 50%, per RS232 spec!). Dave Msg#:38305 *PROJECTS* 02/18/91 09:17:59 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: DAVID MERRIMAN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 38251 (SMARTSPOOLER) What more do you want? On the output, the printer is going to control the flow of characters out of the spooler. In the case of hardware, the printer is going to toggle a handshaking line. In the case of software, the printer is going to send an XOFF to pause characters, and an XON to resume. Msg#:38132 *PROJECTS* 02/13/91 08:03:10 From: ERIC SCHUYLER To: o- s/ / / ~&oe+o+u Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 38070 (SOUND BOARDS) Mark, When you say you "opened the box" do you mean the little printer port dongle or the amplifier/speaker box? I also got a Sound Source just last week, and found a resistor network and an unmarked IC in the printer gadget. I didn't open the speaker box (other than to install the battery), but I just assumed it was only an amplifier/speaker. You're right - the sound is not quite as good as my COVOX hardware which uses just a resistor-ladder D/A. Oh well... Reply has been deleted Msg#:38139 *PROJECTS* 02/13/91 15:21:10 From: RICHARD LEE STUDLEY To: JEFF BACHIOCHI (Rcvd) Subj: CCAT MEMORY RELATED the TM4256ELS (256kx9 simm module) used in the CCAT takes care of the 8 data bits then has a 9th bit with seperate D and Q pins(and cas9 pin). Can the 9th bit be used in parity checking schemes of older systems (74LS280 parity chk/gen)where D9 and Q9 are sent to this chip instead of being tied together? with the glut of older xt motherboards on the market, it seemed worthwhile to make a simm adapter 1megx9, then use these in dedicated applications. I tried this with an AST sixpak successfully accept for the D9 parity bit. I tied cas9 to cas, and D9 as DIn, Q9 as DOut. does this sound like a timing problem? I haven't found data sheets on these modules to help. Thanks LEE Msg#:38393 *PROJECTS* 02/20/91 08:45:32 From: JEFF BACHIOCHI To: RICHARD LEE STUDLEY (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 38139 (CCAT MEMORY RELATED) Richard, That's what the 9th bit is for! Although, there seems to be a division of ideas here. On one hand, adding a parity check can indicate potential RAM errors. On the other hand, it adds to the cost and increases the probability of memory error by 12.5%. Incidentally, it can only indicate a RAM PARITY ERROR on an odd number of bad bits within a byte, even numbers of bit errors cancel out! jeff Msg#:38445 *PROJECTS* 02/22/91 00:33:50 From: RICHARD LEE STUDLEY To: JEFF BACHIOCHI (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 38393 (CCAT MEMORY RELATED) Well since it was there, I thought it would be a interesting exercise to get it working. In the units that I have adapted I went ahead and disabled the expansion parity check. You are right that its easier and cheaper to leave it out. its one of those trivial little things you waste time on because of the principal, thanks LEE. Msg#:38260 *PROJECTS* 02/16/91 23:03:05 From: DAVID MEED To: SYSOP (Rcvd) Subj: 82C11 PARALLEL PORT MODIFICATION I have an 82C11 on my computer for the parallel port. I am planning to build the DDT51 and modified my port to be bidirectional. I was wondering if you are interested in a file describing this mod? I would be happy to upload it the next time I'm in (if you get that new disk). I assume the port is bidirectional because the checkddt program says it is now (it wasn't before). I don't have the DDT51 constructed yet to make sure of this. David Meed. Msg#:38272 *PROJECTS* 02/17/91 05:15:46 From: BILL LIVINGSTON To: DAVID MEED (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 38260 (82C11 PARALLEL PORT MODIFICATION) Dave - I would be interested in the modification of the board containing the 82C11 to be bidirectional. That is all that I could find at a local computer show, but I have been unable to find the psecs for the 82C11. If you do not upload the file to the board, I would be interested in receiving a copy. Thanks Bill L Msg#:38287 *PROJECTS* 02/17/91 22:34:55 From: DAVID MEED To: BILL LIVINGSTON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 38272 (82C11 PARALLEL PORT MODIFICATION) Ok. I haven't heard from Ken yet, but will try to remember to let you know when I do. Basically I built a latch to catch that D5 bit. I used 2 ICs 74LS10 and 74LS379. David Meed Msg#:38306 *PROJECTS* 02/18/91 09:20:33 From: KEN DAVIDSON To: DAVID MEED (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 38260 (82C11 PARALLEL PORT MODIFICATION) Yes, we'd be interested in the mod, but please hold off until later in the week to try to upload it. We have a crunch on file space and are waiting for a new drive (they keep promising it will be shipped any day). Msg#:38437 *PROJECTS* 02/21/91 18:25:30 From: BILL LIVINGSTON To: DAVID MEED (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 38287 (82C11 PARALLEL PORT MODIFICATION) I took another look at the board which I have, and don't know enough to proceed, even with your hints. I do not have the pinouts or functional description of the 82C11. It is in none of the manuals which I have, and I'm timid enough that I hate to poke arround in places where I do not know what is going on. Thanks. I'll await your more complete description. Msg#:38453 *PROJECTS* 02/22/91 06:45:40 From: DAVID MEED To: KEN DAVIDSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 38306 (82C11 PARALLEL PORT MODIFICATION) I will wait until you ask me to upload it. David Meed Msg#:38454 *PROJECTS* 02/22/91 06:47:01 From: DAVID MEED To: BILL LIVINGSTON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 38437 (82C11 PARALLEL PORT MODIFICATION) I have the pinout in the file. Ken says things are too tight to upload right now, so I'll wait till he says its ok. David Meed Msg#:38490 *PROJECTS* 02/23/91 02:31:46 From: BILL LIVINGSTON To: DAVID MEED (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 38454 (82C11 PARALLEL PORT MODIFICATION) Fine. I appreciate that, and will wait paitently. I have constructed a DDT51, but need the two-way port. On to other things in the mean time. Msg#:38559 *PROJECTS* 02/25/91 06:30:10 From: DAVID MEED To: BILL LIVINGSTON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 38490 (82C11 PARALLEL PORT MODIFICATION) This is a bidirectional modification for computers using the 82C11 for their parallel ports. NOTE: An asterix (*) in front of a control signal indicates a negative true signal (low = 1). Pin 19 enables the buffers which drive data onto the printer bus. This pin needs to be controlled by the D5 output of the printer control word to make the port bidirectional. The 74LS10 is a triple 3 input Nand Gate, the 74LS379 is a Quad D flip flop with Clock enable. ------\ (8)DIR --------|1 \ D5(14) /-------tie /-|2 12>0---\ | | | | (40)+5v-\/\/\-+-|13 / | ------------------------ 4k7 | ------/ | | 4 (D0) 5 12 13 | | ------\ | (6) *IOW ---|9 (CP) (D1,D2,D3)| tie ----+-|3 \ | | 74LS379 | \-|4 6>0-\ | /--|1(*CE) | (18)*CS --------|5 / | | ------\ | | 2 (Q0) | ------/ | \-|11 \ | ------------------------ \---|9 8>0--/ | (39) A1 -----------------------|10 / *POE (19) ------/ (40) +5 --(LS10-14, LS379-16) (20)GND --(LS10--7, LS370--8) (The numbers in parenthesis are the pin numbers on the 40 pin dip version of the 82C11. The flat pak has different pin numbers.) I built this circuit on a small piece of perf board and hot melt glued it on top of the 82C11. The wires were kept as short as possible and tack soldered to the pins of the 82C11. The circuit board trace connecting pin 19 to GND (pin 20) was cut. The printer seems to work fine and the CHECKDDT program reports that my printer port is now bidirectional. I have yet to finish constructing the DDT51 to see if it really is working as it needs to, but I don't see any reason why it shouldn't be. David Meed PS I trust this will give you enough to get started. Msg#:38566 *PROJECTS* 02/25/91 08:58:22 From: JEFF BACHIOCHI To: DAVID MEED (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 38559 (82C11 PARALLEL PORT MODIFICATION) David, One of the nicest schematics I've seen displayed on this BBS! jeff Msg#:38588 *PROJECTS* 02/25/91 16:33:36 From: ED NISLEY To: DAVID MEED (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 38559 (82C11 PARALLEL PORT MODIFICATION) Quite a while back we had several folks ask about converting 82C11 ports for use with DDT-51. I looked at the specs for the thing and concluded "no way" because there was no way to connect that spare bit to the I/O direction control line. It never occurred to me to piggyback a duplicate circuit on top of the board... but that's the way to do it. Nice going... a classic piece of work! Msg#:38666 *PROJECTS* 02/27/91 07:03:36 From: DAVID MEED To: JEFF BACHIOCHI (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 38566 (82C11 PARALLEL PORT MODIFICATION) Thank you :-) David Meed Msg#:38703 *PROJECTS* 02/27/91 22:24:52 From: DAVID MEED To: ED NISLEY (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 38588 (82C11 PARALLEL PORT MODIFICATION) Ed (and Jeff) - Thank you for your kind comments. Seriously - surely some Techo-Wizard could come up with a one chip solution for this logic problem (PAL? GAL? ). . . Maybe the pins would even be in order. . . The logic I used was to latch bit D5 on the rising edge of *IOW when A1 is high and *CS and DIR are low. Any takers? ? ? David Meed Msg#:38704 *PROJECTS* 02/27/91 22:25:37 From: DAVID MEED To: DAVID MEED (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 38559 (82C11 PARALLEL PORT MODIFICATION) 82C11 Bidirectional Modification Alternate Schematic Diagram (untried) ===================================== This should do the same thing, and the parts might be more common. ---------- (14) D5 -----------------------------------|2 5|---------*POE (19) | | ------\ ------------- | 74LS74 | (8)DIR -------O|4 \ | 15|O---|3 | (18)*CS -------O|5 >O| | | 1 4 | (39) A1 --------|6 / | 74LS138 | ---------- ------/ | | | | (6)*IOW -----------------|1 | \--+--/\/\/\---+5v /---|2 | 4k7 GND ---+---|3 | ------------- (40) +5 --(LS14-14, LS138-16) (20)GND --(LS14--7, LS138--8) (The numbers in paranthesis are the pin numbers on the 82C11.) I'd love to know how you make out. Thanks David Meed Msg#:38743 *PROJECTS* 03/01/91 04:15:51 From: BILL LIVINGSTON To: DAVID MEED (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 38559 (82C11 PARALLEL PORT MODIFICATION) Thanks. That looks like it should do - I'll give it a shot this weekend and try it out. I have the DDT51 kit finished, but needed the bidirectional port to check it out. Will let you know how it works out. By the way, what was the source of the schematic. It wasn't in any of the manuals which I have, and I need to order it. Thanks Bill L Msg#:38744 *PROJECTS* 03/01/91 06:59:08 From: DAVID MEED To: BILL LIVINGSTON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 38743 (82C11 PARALLEL PORT MODIFICATION) What do you mean the source of the schematic?? I got data sheets from a National data book. The schematic I figured out to do the joneeded. I plan to upload the file with the schematic and the pinouts for the 82C11 so look for it in the files areu*a (mod82c11) Have fun! David Meed Msg#:38828 *PROJECTS* 03/03/91 05:39:28 From: BILL LIVINGSTON To: DAVID MEED (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 38744 (82C11 PARALLEL PORT MODIFICATION) Guess I don't have the right National data book. Yes, I ment the pinout and pin definition data sheet. I will look for the uploaded file. Thanks again. Bill L Msg#:39020 *PROJECTS* 03/07/91 16:52:53 From: ED NISLEY To: DAVID MEED (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 38703 (82C11 PARALLEL PORT MODIFICATION) Yeah, but then everybody would complain that the patch chip costs as much as the parallel board! I think you've got the best solution so far; the cost of the thing is more in the time you put into wiring it up than the parts... Msg#:39204 *PROJECTS* 03/11/91 22:18:56 From: DAVID MEED To: BILL LIVINGSTON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 38828 (82C11 PARALLEL PORT MODIFICATION) I uploaded the file a while ago, assume you got it. David Meed Msg#:39205 *PROJECTS* 03/11/91 22:20:18 From: DAVID MEED To: ED NISLEY (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 39020 (82C11 PARALLEL PORT MODIFICATION) Just what would one of those PAL/GAL chips cost (programmed)? I had assumed something like $5.00+A . David Meed Msg#:39239 *PROJECTS* 03/12/91 10:10:17 From: ED NISLEY To: DAVID MEED (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 39205 (82C11 PARALLEL PORT MODIFICATION) That's the trap everybody falls into -- just because the part costs, say, $5, everybody thinks they're being gouged when it's resold at, say, $20. Any business is in business to stay in business, right? That means you must make a profit on everything you sell. That means the price of an item has to cover not only the cost of buying it, but the cost of _selling_ it. For example, you must include the amortized cost of the PAL programmer, pay for the employee's time doing the programming, the engineers who figured out the design in the first place, the cost of advertising the chip so people will know about it, postage and handling and insurance, the mortgage and upkeep on your building, It wouldn't be out of line for that programmed PAL to sell for $20 by the time all is said and done. A smaller outfit would have lower overhead, but fair pricing might still produce an "unreasonable" sticker value. Of course, if you have another product or three that can support a "loss leader" you could sell it for cost -- but then some idiot would argue that the other products are overpriced! You can't win... Msg#:39418 *PROJECTS* 03/15/91 22:35:35 From: DAVID MEED To: ED NISLEY (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 39239 (82C11 PARALLEL PORT MODIFICATION) Guess you're right. I just work at this for a hobby . . . David Meed Msg#:39436 *PROJECTS* 03/16/91 07:06:25 From: BILL LIVINGSTON To: DAVID MEED (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 39204 (82C11 PARALLEL PORT MODIFICATION) Yes, thanks. I have it, and started to make the changes, but have been delayed by a trip. I hope to finish this weekend, and will get back to you. Sorry, but I thought that I had replied. Thanks. Bill l Msg#:39487 *PROJECTS* 03/17/91 02:04:27 From: BILL LIVINGSTON To: DAVID MEED (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 39204 (82C11 PARALLEL PORT MODIFICATION) Well, I finally made all of the modifications according to your second schematic (having a '74 and a '138 on hand) and my computer now recognizes the port as bidirectional. I much appreciate your upload of the information. Now back to the DDT51. Following your lead, I put the two chips on their own circuit board along with capicators to damp voltage spikes and noise, and connected the board to the printer port board using a pin and socket arrangement. The connector was taped to the printer card and soldered to the appropriate pins of the 82C11. That way I could have dismanteled it easily if it had been wired incorrectly (I sometimes do that). As it turns out, it was recognized the first time. Again, thanks. Bill L Msg#:39662 *PROJECTS* 03/20/91 09:22:45 From: ED NISLEY To: DAVID MEED (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 39418 (82C11 PARALLEL PORT MODIFICATION) No shame in that... but I figured I better explain why "things cost so much" before you (or somebody) got irate that nobody is jumping at the "opportunity" to get rich selling things at a loss... Msg#:39849 *PROJECTS* 03/23/91 06:03:58 From: DAVID MEED To: BILL LIVINGSTON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 39487 (82C11 PARALLEL PORT MODIFICATION) Great - Happy it works for you. Now to see if DDT-51 works with it . . . David Meed Msg#:39850 *PROJECTS* 03/23/91 06:04:34 From: DAVID MEED To: ED NISLEY (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 39662 (82C11 PARALLEL PORT MODIFICATION) Thanks for the explanation. David Meed Msg#:38314 *PROJECTS* 02/18/91 10:16:29 From: BARRY KLEIN To: ALL Subj: MINIDSP Am I blind or what? I did not see a preprogrammed TMS320e15 listed in the article or where to get a code listing.It doesn't do anything without the firmware! I'll check in your files section here but I wanted to leave a note here in case I don't see anything. Msg#:38325 *PROJECTS* 02/18/91 16:49:24 From: STEVE REYER To: BARRY KLEIN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 38314 (MINIDSP) Barry: Since you said you were going to check the file area, I'm sure you have located the MINIDSP.ZIP file in file area 1 by now. Also, be sure to read message number 37567, which should answer many of your questions. -- Steve Msg#:38348 *PROJECTS* 02/19/91 03:00:43 From: JERRY KISSACK To: ED NISLEY (Rcvd) Subj: REF MSG 38166 (DDT-51) Hi Ed, Hate to bug you like this. I know this is alot of stuff to look over, but do appreciate your help. Here's more info on my DDT-51: The screen shots I get while stepping thru the test loop of the old version of KERNEL.HEX. is exactly the same as given in the "DDT-51 Revealed" article CCINK Vol I No. 6, so I will not show that info here. Here are the screen shots I get when stepping thru the current version of KERNEL.HEX now on the CCINK BBS. Note that Bit Addressable and General RAM are initialized with ED hex, except the last location (7F) in general RAM is holding DD hex. I will only show the stuff that changes. Reg bank 0 has EE hex for first location and all the rest are ED hex. Reg bank 2 has 46 84 00 00 and then the rest are ED hex, and these do not change unless the "Set Breakpoint" (F8) command is used. Reg bank 3 is initialized with all ED hex and remains unchanged. Also, with this new version, I am able to start with the step command and show address 0050, which is the location of the first instruction, while the older version skipped that and went to 0055 when first stepped, dis- playing the MOV A,#BA instruction, with the DPTR = FACE already from the previous instruction. Note that the current version of KERNEL.HEX has the MOV A,#BA instruction at location 0053, so the first few instructions that are the same as the old version of KERNEL.HEX are at different locations. The INC R0 and INC 78 instructions were not found in the test loop of the older version of KERNEL.HEX. Current KERNEL.HEX changing screen shot info: 0050 MOV DPTR,#FACE Reg Bank 1: 50 00 00 2E EE 00 16 00 0053 MOV A,#BA (DPTR now = FACE) Reg Bank 1: 23 00 00 2E EE 00 CE FA 0055 MOV B,#BE (A now = BA) Reg Bank 1: 55 00 01 BA EE 00 CE FA 0058 INC DTPR (B now = BE) Reg Bank 1: 58 00 01 BA EE BE CE FA 0059 ADD A,#12 (DPTR now = FACF) Reg Bank 1: 59 00 01 BA EE BE CF FA 005B DEC B (A now = CC) Reg Bank 1: 5B 00 00 CC EE BE CF FA 005D INC R0 (B now = BD) Reg Bank 1: 5D 00 00 CC EE BD CF FA 005E INC 78 Reg Bank 0: EE ED ED ED ED ED ED ED Reg Bank 1: 5E 00 00 CC EF BD CF FA 0060 CPL P3.4 Reg Bank 1: 60 00 00 CC EF BD CF FA (Gen Ram at location 78 now EE) 0062 SJMP F4 (LED now ON) Reg Bank 1: 62 00 00 CC EF BD CF FA Program loops to 0058 and continues looping, causing the LED to toggle each time it executes the CPL P3.4 instruction. Obviously, my DDT-51 does appear to be functioning as it was intended and the slight differences in the screen shots reflect the revisions that have been made to KERNEL.HEX. With the current version of KERNEL.HEX loaded, I can next load BLINKY.HEX and step thru it with expected results. I don't know why the older version of KERNEL.HEX will not allow single stepping once BLINKY.HEX is loaded. The "DDT-51 Revealed" article doesn't give any info on overlaying a program, such as BLINKY.HEX, in fact, it says to modify KERNEL.ASM by replacing it's test loop with your own code. Maybe back then with the old version of KERNEL.HEX, the feature of loading your code over KERNEL.HEX was not available(?) Here are the instructions displayed with the current version of KERNEL.HEX loaded, then BLINKY.HEX loaded and stepped: BLINKY.HEX instructions displayed: 0050 MOV 30,#32 0053 MOV 31,#64 (Gen RAM at 30 now = 32) 0056 MOV A,30 (Gen RAM at 31 now = 64) 0058 CLR P3.4 (A now = 32) 005A LCALL 0080 (LED now on) 0080 PUSH B 0082 MOV B,#00 0085 DJNZ B,FD (B decrements from 00 to FF, FE, FD ...00) 0088 MOV B,#CC 008B DJNZ B,FD (B decrements from CC to CB, CA, C9 ...00) 008E POP B (B stays 00) 0090 DJNZ A,ED (A now = 31) Program loops to instruction 0080 and A decrements each loop pass until 0. 0093 RET 005D MOV A,31 005F SETB P3.4 0061 LCALL 0800 (LED now off) (Program re-enters loop at 0080 and continues as before) Ed, if this looks right to you, I'd be happy to hear an expert, as yourself, say so. Not sure why the older version of KERNEL.HEX does not allow stepping thru BLINKY.HEX, but Msg#:38575 *PROJECTS* 02/25/91 14:22:00 From: ED NISLEY To: JERRY KISSACK (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 38348 (REF MSG 38166 (DDT-51)) If you look at what the instructions are supposed to do versus what the screen shows, you'll see that all the right things are happening at exactly the right times! So I'd say you've got a working system there. As to why the older version didn't work, I won't hazard a guess -- except to say that that's why we occasionally post newer code... sometimes we actually fix bugs! While I'm quite sure the older version single-stepped just fine, I can't muster the enthusiasm to debug what's happening in your system. Let's work with the new version and go from there. In order for the KERNEL code to get control, it must use some of the 8031's stack space. The SP starts out at 07, so the stack goes from 08 upward. That is also the start of Reg Bank 1, so you'll see those registers changing as you step along -- you're actually seeing the contents of the stack! KERNEL uses about 8 bytes of stack, so the stack may extend to Reg Bank 2 starting at address 10 hex. When you're single stepping, you see the disassembled instruction _before_ it's executed, so the results will show up _after_ you do the step. That should be obvious, but I've occasionally tripped myself up on it... KERNEL executes a few zillion instructions before your program gets control at address 50 hex; you don't see those because KERNEL won't single-step its own code. Furthermore, it doesn't know (or care!) how your code got to address 50, as long as it's there. If you assemble your code into a modified version of the KERNEL or download it "on top of" the test loop already in KERNEL doesn't matter -- the key point is that you've got to start your code at address 50 and make sure it's present before you start KERNEL. The intent of the test loop in KERNEL was to provide a simple "guaranteed to work" program that illustrated how the system plays; when you download the KERNEL using F3, that's what you should get. To use a separately-compiled program, you first download KERNEL and then overlay it with your code (using F4). The first executable instruction of your code must be at address 50, although you may use the interrupt vectors starting at address 0003 if your code needs 'em. One thing to be careful of when you're writing your own code is that you must NOT use any of the KERNEL's resources: it needs to have interrupts enabled all the time (so don't clear EA) and must have control over the RESET and INT1 vectors (so make sure your code doesn't overlay them). Also, be careful about stack usage because KERNEL needs another eight bytes or so beyond what your own code uses. The Debug RAM is decoded from 8000-9FFF although it's only 2K in size... there are four copies repeated in that region, but KERNEL uses only addresses from 8000-87FF. You're free to use the rest of the address space for anything you like, although typically the higher addresses go to I/O devices. The I/O devices (like the RTC-IO boards) must decode their addresses so they don't overlap the 8000-9FFF region, but that is usually no problem. Sounds like you're on the air! Msg#:38349 *PROJECTS* 02/19/91 03:07:52 From: JERRY KISSACK To: ED NISLEY (Rcvd) Subj: PG 2 (DDT-51) Continued from last Msg: Ed, if this looks right to you, I'd be happy to hear an expert, as yourself, say so. Not sure why the older version of KERNEL.HEX does not allow stepping thru BLINKY.HEX, but if the current version is doing what it's supposed to, who cares... My DDT-51 system doesn't use a dip clip, as I've got direct ribbon cable connectors on the DDT-51 and target system, so I should have good connections. I'm using a short 4" cable from DDT-51 to target. My target system is the minimal target example of the "DDT-51 Revealed" article. Other Questions: When I get to my own code, do I use the "Load Program" command (F4) from the DEBUG31 program to load my code, or do I modify KERNEL.HEX, replacing it's test loop with my code, or can both be done? Is the DDT-51 system setup so Debug RAM uses all space above 8000H, I.E., 8000H to FFFFH, or is there some user program/data space that can be used there? In other words, without modifications to the DDT-51 system, is the user ONLY allowed to work with program/data space from 0000H to 7FFFH? I understand that none of the target RAM must be selected in the Debug RAM space, so, I guess what I'm asking is, how much space does Debug RAM require, and if there is any space left over, can that be used for the target system if it has proper address decoding, and will it work with the DDT-51 system? I know you're busy there, but do appreciate your help. You guys got the best computer journal available. Keep up the good work. It's not going un-noticed! Best Regards Jerry Kissack Msg#:38667 *PROJECTS* 02/27/91 08:21:23 From: GARY L LEAR To: CHAD BEARDEN Subj: DDT-51 NOISE PROBLEM, MAYBE.. I can recall working on a 6809 in-house development system. We set ours up to work with a fairly long (6 ft.) in circuit cable that connected the target system to our box. We used Ed's interwoven grounds, line drivers and receivers, and finally had to resort to having a custom shielded flat cable made. (Although, we did try our own version with aluminum tape first to check it out. This type of custom cable is expensive.) What a nightmare! Worked fine in the end. I hope you have since solved your problem. --Regards, Gary Msg#:38668 *PROJECTS* 02/27/91 08:53:12 From: GARY L LEAR To: JOHN COHAN Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 28752 (A TO D CONVERSION) Check out some of Analog Devices solid state temperature sensors. It should not be any problem to get a half of a degree with these devices and since you are only using a sub-range of 40 degrees (and not near the ends of the sensors' span) it may be possible with even the National LM35 or LM134 sensors. All of these devices are capable of greater accuracy t+ if they are not used over the full range. The LM134 is a current output device that Ed Nisley has employed in his Firmware Furnace column. If you were to use it in conjunction with a National LM331 voltage-to-frequency converter, you would easily have 11 bits of resolution. Check National's Linear Applicatioook or Walter Jungs "Converter Cookbook" for an appropriate circuit. It seems from your comment that you are unclear about how many bits are needed for your desired range. While I don't have time for going into the specifics of A/D parameters (a mess anyway!) here is a rule of thumb to get you started. Take the desired range (-10 to 30) or 40 degrees and the resolution (0.5 degrees) and divide. This indicates that you need at least 80 discrete units to represent your data. Now, an eight bit converter can represent at most 256 distinct levels (2 raised to the 8th power is 256) and this defines the A/D needed. For a 12 bit converter, 4096 steps are available. Since even your high resolution sensor only requires 400 steps, 9 bits or 512 steps would be enough. Properly done the V-F converter can do the equivalent of 11 bits or 2048 steps. A couple of input line on your parallel port and a little clever software (a serial port would also work) would do it. BTW, don't forget that scaling and\or shifting the analog signal before the converter may be necessary. Good luck! --Regards, Gary Msg#:38713 *PROJECTS* 02/28/91 01:12:03 From: PETER JOHNSON To: ALL Subj: MC68HC11 APPLICATION Greetings all, I have an application in mind for the recently described MC68HC11 board but I've not had any experience using microcontrollers before so I would like to describe the job at hand and perhaps some of you may be able to tell me if it's feasible. The application is using the controller as a bit error rate tester (BERT) for monitoring the performance of digital transmission systems. For those who may not be familiar with this type of equipment it basically sends a pseudo random sequence of bits down a serial line and should receive the same pattern back from the distant end. The line may either be looped or a second test set may send the correct pattern from the distant end. Either way the tester has to operate some type of pattern matching algorithm, get into sync with the received test pattern, and then count up bit errors (one bit incorrect in the pattern), syncronisation losses (a complete loss of pattern matching) and a variety of other events which may occur over a certain period. The sequence of bits may be 511, 2047, 2^15-1, or 2^20-1 bits long. My company runs these tests continuosly at speeds up to 64kbps through mux equipment and onto its high speed (2Mbit) international circuits. The results from all the testers are fed (via a low speed async port) into a sun workstation which provides a visual interface to the circuits performance. The 68HC11 board looks ideal for this application as it contains a high speed synchronous port to interface to the mux equipment, a async port to talk to the workstation, and sufficient computational power to do the relatively easy mathematics involved. So, after all that background the hard questions are... - is there enough processing power to be able to track the incoming test pattern, generate a outgoing test pattern, and calculate the statistics for the circuit? - would I be able to do the above in BASIC-11 or would I need to drop down to assembler? - what are the timing arrangments for the sync serial port? I need to be able to clock into the controller board using the network clock and clock out using either the same clock or one synchronised to the network clock. I'd surely appreciate any feedback anyone may have on this application. Best regards, Peter. Msg#:38980 *PROJECTS* 03/07/91 01:02:33 From: BURT BROWN To: PETER JOHNSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 38713 (MC68HC11 APPLICATION) Just read ur msg, although a bit late. It's abt 1:00 AM so I'll get back to you with some specs tomorrow or thurs. --Burt Msg#:39228 *PROJECTS* 03/12/91 06:36:28 From: GARY L LEAR To: PETER JOHNSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 38713 (MC68HC11 APPLICATION) I do consulting work on micocontroller based systems and on the HC11 in particular. Although I don't have time at the moment (I would also need more data than your message provides) I would be happy to exchange a few messages on the subject. Good luck. --Regards, Gary ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ The entire contents of the Circuit Cellar BBS and these disks are copyright (c) 1991 by Steve Ciarcia and Circuit Cellar Inc. All rights reserved. Under no circumstances may any message or message thread be reposted, reprinted, or reproduced in any form without express written permission from Circuit Cellar Inc. 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